[00:00:04]
GOOD EVENING.OKAY, WE'RE GONNA CALL TO ORDER THE UPPER PROVINCE TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FOR NOVEMBER 4TH, 2026 AS THE YEAR JUST BLOWS BY.
UM, SO THE FIRST THING WE'RE GONNA DO IS, AS I CALL TO ORDER, WE'LL, UH, A MOTION TO APPROVE THE, UH, THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING, WHICH, UH, I THINK THERE'S COPIES IN THE BACK IF YOU DIDN'T GET THEM.
BUT, UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA FROM WHOEVER.
BOB'S MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
SO WITH THAT AGENDA BEING APPROVED, UM, LET'S MOVE ON TO PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AGENDA ITEMS. SO ANYTHING THAT ANYBODY WANTS TO COME UP FRONT AND SPEAK ABOUT THAT IS NOT ON THE AGENDA THIS EVENING? THIS IS THE TIME TO DO IT.
NOT HEARING ANY, UM, I'M GOING TO, UH, MOVE ON.
AND NOW WE'LL GET INTO GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS, UH, WHICH IS THE, UH, MEETING MINUTES AND REVIEW FOR OCTOBER 21.
UM, ANYBODY GET A CHANCE TO PERUSE THROUGH THAT? UH, UH, THAT LADY THAT DOES THAT DOES SUCH A GREAT JOB.
YOU KNOW THAT, RIGHT? THAT'S GOOD TO HEAR.
IF YOU EVER SEE HER OUT IN THE STREET, YOU OUGHT TO SAY SOMETHING TO HER BECAUSE - THAT'S GOOD TO HEAR.
UM, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE OR AMEND OR DENY OR WHATEVER YOU WANNA DO.
I'LL, TOM, I'LL, I'LL MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN.
SO JERRY'S MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR OCTOBER 21.
SO THEN WE'LL GO TO THE NEXT ITEM, WHICH IS THE CLEANUP ORDINANCE FOR 2026.
AND I'LL ASK JEFF TO KINDA HELP US WITH THAT.
I DON'T WANNA GO THROUGH IT AGAIN LIKE WE DID LAST TIME.
UM, WE, WE HAVE MADE SOME CHANGES BASED ON WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT AT THE LAST MEETING.
UH, JERRY WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE TIMING OF ISSUING OF COS.
UM, THERE WAS A FEW OTHER, SOME MINOR CHANGES THAT WE'VE MADE JUST INTERNAL TO IT.
UM, WE'RE LOOKING TO GET A RECOMMENDATION FROM YOU.
UM, IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT AFTER SEEING THE CHANGES OR IF YOU'RE READY TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD.
WELL, BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT THERE HAVE BEEN NO SIGNIFICANT OR SUBSTANTIVE OR, OR ANY OTHER CHANGES TO WHAT WE ALREADY REVIEWED - RIGHT.
SO YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THIS CHANGE - YES.
TO BE RECOMMENDED TO BE APPROVED BY THE SUPERVISOR.
THE, THE CHANGE THAT'S IN THE PACKET YOU HAVE.
HAVE THE SUPERVISORS SEEN IT? THEY'VE SEEN A DRAFT OF IT.
UM, THEY WERE INCLUDED IN THE DISTRIBUTION OF IT.
WE'LL GO OVER IT WITH THEM AT THE HEARING.
AND THEY HAD NO OUTSTANDING ISSUES AT THAT TIME? NOT THAT THEY'VE BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION.
NOT THAT THEY BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION AT THAT MEETING.
ALL RIGHT GUYS, SO WE'VE SEEN THIS BEFORE.
WE'VE HAD IT GOING NOW FOR A FEW MEETINGS.
UH, DOES ANYBODY WANT TO, UH, MAKE A MOTION TO MOVE THIS OFF TO THE SUPERVISORS FOR THEIR FINAL APPROVAL? I'LL VOTE TO, UH, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT THE SUPERVISORS APPROVE THE, UH, NEW UPDATED ORDINANCE AS, UH, OUTLINED OR, OR COVERED IN, UH, WHAT WE'VE ALREADY RECEIVED.
AND LIKE WE SAID, WE'VE DONE, WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS I THINK LAST MEETING WE WENT DEEP INTO THIS.
SO UH, WE PRETTY MUCH KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
SO DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND THAT.
ALL RIGHT, BLAIR'S MADE A SECOND.
JEFF, WE, YOU'LL MOVE THAT OFF TO, UH, TO THE SUPERVISORS, RIGHT? YEP.
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON NOVEMBER 4, 2026]
SO TONIGHT WE'VE GOT A COUPLE APPLICANTS WITH US.OUR OLD FRIEND ALLISON'S HERE.
SHE, SHE'S ALREADY GETTING UP AND MOVING, SO I GUESS IT'S TIME.
PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND...
UM, I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF HT140 WHITAKER LLC THIS EVENING, WHICH IS HIGH TOP DEVELOPMENT.
UM, DAVID LANSKRONER HAD A CONFLICT TONIGHT, SO HE COULD NOT BE HERE, BUT I DO HAVE OUR CONSULTANT TEAM WITH ME, UM, HERB SCHULTZ, UM, WHO'S ARCHITECT FOR THE PROJECT.
UM, STEVE MCBRARDY FROM LANDCORP WHO IS THE CIVIL ENGINEER FOR THE PROJECT AND GREG RICHARDSON FROM TPD WHO IS THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER FOR THE PROJECT.
SO, UM, THIS PARTICULAR SITE, UM, I THINK MOST OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH, BUT I KNOW, UM, WE HAVEN'T BEEN HERE IN A WHILE AND SO I WILL GIVE HIGH LEVEL OF WHERE WE WERE.
SO BACK IN, UM, AUGUST OF 2025, UH, THE SUPERVISORS APPROVED A TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN FOR THIS SITE.
THE SITE'S APPROXIMATELY, UM, 6.8 ACRES.
UM, I THINK EVERYONE IS AWARE THAT IT IS IMPROVED WITH THE BUILDING THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY A SCHOOL BUILDING AND THEN MOST RECENTLY USED FOR OFFICE, UH, WHICH WOULD BE PROPOSED TO BE DEMOLISHED, UM, AS PART OF THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE SITE.
UM, THE SITE ZONE PBO DISTRICT, WHICH DOES ALLOW TOWNHOUSES BY RIGHT.
[00:05:01]
THERE WAS, UM, A PLAY AREA THAT WAS SUBJECT TO A LEASE, UH, WITH THE TOWNSHIP AS WELL AS A CERTAIN OPEN SPACE AREA.UH, WE, UH, ENTERED INTO A MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT WITH THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IN DECEMBER OF 2025 THAT SET FOR CERTAIN PARAMETERS, CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS, UM, THAT WE NEED TO MEET AS PART OF, UH, THE DEVELOPMENT OUTLINE, UH, AND APPROVALS WHICH ARE REFLECTED, WERE MOSTLY REFLECTED ON THE CONCEPT PLAN AND THEN REFLECTED ON THE PRELIMINARY PLAN, UH, FINAL PLAN THAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT'S SHOWN ON THE SCREEN.
SO THERE ARE 45 TOWN HOMES THAT ARE PROPOSED.
UM, THERE ARE 3.65 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE AND THERE IS A PLAY AREA THAT IS HIGHLIGHTED IN A DARKER GREEN, UM, TOWARDS THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PLAN, WHICH IS 11,050 SQUARE FEET.
UM, THAT WOULD BE, THE IMPROVEMENTS ARE NOT SHOWN ON THERE AND I WILL HAVE HER WALK YOU THROUGH THOSE IMPROVEMENTS, BUT, UM, AS PART OF WHAT HIGHTOP IS PROPOSING TO DO, THEY WOULD IMPROVE THAT PLAY AREA.
IT'S NOT SHOWN ON THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
LIKE I SAID, WE'LL GO THROUGH THAT.
WE HAVE SOME RENDERINGS, UM, IN COORDINATION WITH THE PARKS DEPARTMENT.
UH, WE'VE PUT TOGETHER WHAT THE VISION WOULD BE FOR THAT PARTICULAR, THOSE PARTICULAR PARK AMENITIES.
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT, UM, YOUR DIRECTOR OF PARKS AND REC WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS USED AS A SPACE THAT'S NOT A DESTINATION PLAYGROUND, BUT MORE OF A COMMUNITY, SERVE THE COMMUNITY THAT IS THERE TODAY PLAYGROUND.
UM, SO THAT'S THE IDEA BEHIND WHAT YOU'LL SEE, UM, FOR THAT.
WHO WILL MAINTAIN? SO THE, THE, THE TOWNSHIP WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR, UM, THE OVERALL PARK IF IT'S ACCEPTED FOR DEDICATION, BUT THEN THERE ARE OTHER, YOU KNOW, OTHER BUFFERING, LANDSCAPING, STORMWATER FACILITIES, ANY OF THOSE THINGS THAT HOA WOULD STILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR.
UM, SO IT'S REALLY A QUESTION, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, WILL BE UP TO THE SUPERVISORS.
OBVIOUSLY EVERYTHING IS OFFERED FOR DEDICATION TO THE TOWNSHIP, UM, AND IT WOULD BE UP TO THE TOWNSHIP WHETHER THEY WANT TO ACCEPT SOME OR ALL, ET CETERA.
UM, SO WHAT, YOU KNOW, LIKELY THERE WOULD BE SOME SORT OF SUBDIVISION LINE SHOWN, YOU KNOW, THAT WILL RESULT BETWEEN THE GREEN AREA ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PLAN AND THEN THE REST OF THE OPEN SPACE AREA.
BUT, UH, THE HOA WOULD STILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING TRAILS, WALKWAYS, ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
WHO'S GONNA MAINTAIN IT ON AN EVERYDAY BASIS? SO THE, THE, SO THERE ARE WALKWAYS THAT ARE PROPOSED THROUGH THE SITE, INCLUDING CONNECTING TO THE MEADOWS CONDOMINIUM IN THE BACK.
UM, THERE ARE STORMWATER FACILITIES.
THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF A LONG GREEN AREA.
THAT WOULD ALL BE MAINTAINED BY THE HOA.
UM, AND THEN IN TERMS OF THE PARK AMENITIES, CERTAINLY WE WOULD OFFER EVERYTHING FOR DEDICATION TO THE TOWNSHIP AND, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE TOWNSHIP DETERMINED, WHETHER THEY WANTED TO MAINTAIN IT OR WHETHER THEY WANTED THE HOA TO MAINTAIN IT.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE, UH, PLAYGROUND AREA.
YEAH, THE PLAYGROUND AREA ITSELF.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THE, THE PARK AND RECREATION DIRECTOR SAID SHE WANTS TO MAKE IT MORE OF A COMMUNITY THING, NOT A DESTINATION PARK LIKE - CORRECT.
SO IT ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE THEY DON'T WANT TO DEDICATE IT TO THE TOWNSHIP.
DID YOU CONCUR WITH THAT OR? THAT STILL UP IN THE AIR.
SO I MEAN, ZACH, I DON'T KNOW.
I, I THINK THAT IT DEPENDS ON WHAT AMENITIES YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OR WHAT FEATURES YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT THE QUOTE UNQUOTE OPEN SPACE.
UM, YOU RECALL THAT THIS WAS PART OF A, A LEASE THAT THE TOWNSHIP HAD WITH, FOR A CERTAIN ACREAGE OF PROPERTY - RIGHT.
WAS TO BE MAINTAINED AS OPEN SPACE.
SO WHAT THEY PROPOSED AS OPEN SPACE ON THE PLAN ISN'T NECESSARILY CONVENTIONAL OPEN SPACE AS DEFINED UNDER THE SOUTH ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, IT, IT ENCOMPASSES SOME OF THEIR STORMWATER FACILITIES AND OTHER IMPROVEMENTS THAT IF THE TOWNSHIP WERE TO TAKE DEDICATION, THEY WOULDN'T NECESSARILY WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING THOSE IMPROVEMENTS.
THOSE WOULD BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE HOA AND THE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE THERE.
UM, BUT THE, THE PARKS DIRECTOR AND I THINK STAFF HAS GENERALLY, UM, INDICATED THAT THEY WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF TAKING, UH, DEDICATION OF THAT PARK AREA.
UH, THE ULTIMATE DECISION OF WHETHER TO ACCEPT DEDICATION OF THE, THE PLAYGROUND AREA AND, AND REALLY KIND OF THE, THE TRIANGLE AREA HERE, HERE OVER TO THE LEFT, UM, WOULD REST WITH THE BOARD, UH, AT THEIR DISCRETION.
UM, I BELIEVE THAT WILL HAPPEN.
I'M NOT A MEMBER OF THE BOARD, SO I CAN'T NECESSARILY ON THAT, BUT - YEAH, I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO KNOW WHAT THEIR FEELING IS ON THAT BECAUSE THAT'S FINE.
AND, AND A LOT OF TIMES THAT DECISION ISN'T MADE UNTIL THE IMPROVEMENTS ARE INSTALLED AND IT'S INSPECTED
[00:10:01]
AND ALL THAT.SO, UM, YOU KNOW, KNOWING THEIR FEELINGS ON IT, I THINK CERTAINLY THEY'LL VOICE THEIR OPINIONS AT THE MEETINGS WHEN THEY REVIEW THIS STUFF, BUT, UH, THE ACTUAL DEDICATION WON'T HAPPEN UNTIL THE IMPROVEMENTS ARE INSTALLED AND THEY'RE READY TO BE DEDICATED.
I WAS JUST SAYING, JUST PERSONALLY MYSELF, I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THEY'RE LEANING.
THEY'RE LEANING FORWARD, TAKING IT SOUND LIKE THEY SAID THEY WERE.
MY UNDERSTANDING, AND I THINK JEFF'S UNDERSTANDING AS WELL WAS, IS THAT THE BOARD IS GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF ACCEPTING DEDICATION OF THE - OKAY.
BUT AGAIN, NEITHER OF US IS ON THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, SO IT'S ULTIMATELY NOT - I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT.
THE PLAY - THE PLAYGROUND AREA, I'M CONCERNED THE COMMUNITY.
HOW DO PEOPLE GET THERE? THERE'S NO PARKING.
I MEAN, SO IT, I MEAN, WHEN I SAY COMMUNITY, IS IT, IS IT THE TOWNHOUSE COMMUNITY OR, I MEAN - THE, THE SURROUNDING - THE CONCEPT IS UPPER PROVIDENCE COMMUNITY, BUT HOW DO THEY GET THERE? I MEAN, I DON'T SEE THE ACCESSES AND YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE TOWNHOUSES TO GET TO THERE.
I MEAN, I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT CONCEPT OF COMMUNITY PLAYGROUND AS TO HOW THE COMMUNITY GETS THERE.
SO, UM, THERE WOULD BE SIDEWALK PROPO - WHEN, WHEN I SAY COMMUNITY, IT'S SORT OF THE SURROUNDING AREA RIGHT THERE VERSUS IT BEING A DESTINATION PARK FOR SOMEONE THAT LIVES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TOWNSHIP THAT WOULD DRIVE THERE.
I'M JUST SAYING COMMUNITY IS JUST, IF YOU'RE SAYING IT'S JUST THESE TOWNHOMES, THAT'S ONE THING.
BUT COMMUNITY IS THAT, THAT LOWER PORTION OF THE TOWNSHIP TOWARDS MONTCLAIR, IF YOU WILL.
SO THERE, THERE ARE, THERE'S, THERE ARE SIDEWALKS PROPOSED ALONG THE FRONTAGE, UM, AS WELL AS A TRAIL CONNECTION UP THROUGH AND NEXT TO THE PARK AREA THAT ALSO THEN CONNECTS TO THE BACK OF THE SITE TO THE MEADOWS, SO THERE WOULD BE A DIRECT CONNECTION TO THE MEADOWS, BUT THERE IS ALSO, YOU KNOW, PEDESTRIAN AMENITIES PROPOSED ALONG THE FRONTAGE TO CONNECT TO THE GREATER AREA.
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET THIS DEVELOPMENT FROM ANYWHERE IN THE COMMUNITY THAT'S SAFE.
I MEAN, YOU CAN'T DRIVE IN AND PARK ANYWHERE AND THEN WALK UP TO THE, TO THE- THERE ARE A FEW PARKING SPACES, SPACES PROPOSED IN THE FRONT, YES.
UH, THAT, THAT'S A CONCERN I HAVE.
I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE THE TRAILS, BUT IF YOU HAVE SMALL KIDS, YOU CAN'T WALK THE TRAIL.
SOME, SOME OF THOSE ARE KIND OF GONNA BE, ARE BUSY STREETS TO HAVE.
I'M SAYING, I THINK, I THINK IT'S A LEGITIMATE QUESTION BECAUSE THERE IS NO PARKING.
I MEAN, I COULD EVEN CONCERN ABOUT THE PARKING JUST FOR THE RESIDENTS, BUT, UM, BUT GO ON.
IF I'M UNDERSTANDING, IT WOULD BE, THIS IS THE WAY I TOOK YOUR PRESENTATION.
IT'S THE HOMES THERE, MAYBE THE MEADOWS ACROSS THE STREET, AND THEN THOSE HOMES.
BUT IT'S NOT A DESTINATION, SO PEOPLE WALK THERE.
THAT, THAT WOULD BE THE CONCEPT THAT WE HAVE.
WELL, THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO GET THERE.
BUT IT'S STILL A GOOD PARCEL OF AREA THAT IF IT'S A COMMUNITY AREA, PEOPLE HAVE TO GET THERE.
EVEN IF IT'S A DOZEN CHILDREN, I MEAN, WHATEVER IT IS.
UM, THAT, THAT'S, OKAY, ENOUGH SAID.
ALL RIGHT, COUNSEL, PLEASE CONTINUE.
SO, AND TO, JUST TO ANSWER SORT OF THE, THE LAST THOUGHT ON THE PLAY AREA.
SO, UM, THERE, THE, UM, MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT WITH THE TOWNSHIP DOES CONTEMPLATE THAT, UM, THERE'S A CERTAIN DOLLAR FIGURE THAT RELATES TO THE PLAYGROUND AMENITIES.
WE ALSO, HIGHTOP WOULD ALSO BE PAYING OPEN SPACE FEE IN LIEU.
UM, SOME OF THAT FUNDS COULD BE ALLOCATED TO THE COST THERE, BUT ANY ADDITIONAL OPEN SPACE FEE IN LIEU THAT WOULD NOT BE USED FOR THE ACTUAL PLAYGROUND AMENITIES WOULD STILL BE, UM, PROVIDED TO THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, AND IF FOR SOME REASON THE TOWNSHIP WOULD NOT WANT TO ACCEPT THE PLAY AREA, THERE WOULD STILL BE AN EASEMENT ON IT FOR PUBLIC USE, SO IT WOULD STILL BE AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC USE EVEN IF THE TOWNSHIP DETERMINES NOT, THAT IT DOES NOT WANT TO ACCEPT DEDICATION OF THE AREA.
UM, IN TERMS OF WHAT I'LL CALL THE MORE TECHNICAL ITEMS RELATED TO THE PROJECT, UH, WE HAVE RECEIVED THE PLANNING MODULE EXEMPTION FOR THE PROJECT, UM, THAT WAS RECEIVED IN JULY OF THIS YEAR.
UM, THE NPDS PERMIT IS UNDER TECHNICAL REVIEW, UM, AND THERE, THIS IS A TOWNSHIP ROAD, SO THERE'S NOT AN HOP ASSOCIATED WITH THE ACCESS TO THE SITE.
UH, THE ONE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT I'LL, I'LL SAY THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CONCEPT PLAN, TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN THAT YOU SAW PREVIOUSLY AND WHAT YOU'RE SEEING TONIGHT IS THAT THERE ARE TWO FULL ACCESS POINTS PROPOSED TO THE SITE.
AT THE TIME THAT WE PREPARED THE CONCEPT PLAN AND PRESENTED IT TO THE TOWNSHIP, A SINGLE ACCESS WAS PROPOSED WITH AN EMERGENCY ACCESS THAT WOULD HAVE CONNECTED OVER TO THE FULL ACCESS.
HOWEVER, THAT WOULD HAVE RESULTED
[00:15:01]
IN THE LOSS OF MATURE TREES ALONG THE FRONTAGE OF THE SITE.UM, WE DID HEAR FROM NEIGHBORS THAT THOSE TREES WERE IMPORTANT TO THEM AND THEY ASKED THAT THOSE BE SAVED.
I CAN HAVE STEVE GIVE YOU A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ABOUT BUFFERING, LANDSCAPING, AND THE TREES ON THE FRONTAGE.
BUT AS A RESULT, THIS PROVIDES A FULL ACCESS, ALSO WORKS FOR FIRE TRUCKS, ET CETERA, IN A SAFE MANNER, UM, AND ALLOWS US TO RETAIN THOSE TREES ON THE FRONTAGE.
UH, ADDITIONALLY, THERE WOULD BE AN ACCESS POINT FOR, UH, FIRE AND TOWNSHIP ACCESS BETWEEN THE TOWNHOUSES TO THE PLAY AREA.
UM, IT'S A GREEN STRIP THAT'S SHOWN CONNECTING TO THAT PLAY AREA THERE.
UM, THAT WOULD ALSO BE AVAILABLE FOR EMERGENCY ACCESS.
UM, SO WE DO HAVE, I DO HAVE HERB TO GIVE YOU SORT OF AN OVERVIEW WITH RENDERINGS, UPDATED RENDERINGS, WHAT THINGS LOOK LIKE, AND THEN STEVE, UM, CAN WALK YOU THROUGH, UH, WAIVERS WE ARE REQUESTING, GIVE YOU A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT STORMWATER, BUFFERING, THOSE TYPES OF TECHNICAL THINGS.
UM, AND THEN WE, WE CAN HAVE, UH, GREG RICHARDSON TOUCH ON TRAFFIC IF YOU'D LIKE.
WE'RE NOT SEEKING A RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT.
WE KNOW WE NEED TO DO SOME CLEANUP AND COME BACK TO YOU.
SO THIS IS REALLY JUST A, YOU KNOW, GET THE DIALOGUE STARTED WITH YOU AND GET YOUR FEEDBACK ON THINGS.
ONE QUESTION OUTSIDE THE ROAD GOING THE, THE HORSESHOE, IS THAT ONE WAY OR IS THAT GONNA BE A TWO WAY? IT'S A TWO WAY, TWO WAY.
SO ONE WAY'S, ONE OF THEM'S NOT AN IN AND THE OTHER ONE'S NOT.
IF HERB IS GONNA GET INTO THIS FINE, DO WE CAN, YOU CAN ANSWER LATER.
UM, BUT THE EMERGENCY ACCESS ROAD, I SEE IT CONNECTS TO ROAD A, THE U-SHAPED ROAD, BUT WHERE ARE FIRE TRUCKS ENTERING FROM THE PLAYGROUND? THEY'RE DRIVING THROUGH THE OPEN SPACE.
THEY'RE, WELL, WE CAN HAVE STEVE ANSWER THAT QUESTION FOR YOU.
STEVE MCBRADY WITH LANCOR, THE CIVIL ENGINEER.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE GRASS STRIP THAT'S IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO UNITS THREE AND FOUR, THE EMERGENCY VEHICLES WOULD COME IN OFF OF WHITAKER AVENUE.
THEY WOULD CIRCLE AROUND ROAD A, AND THEN THEY WOULD PHYSICALLY PULL INTO THAT ACCESS STRIP IF THEY DID HAVE TO GET IN THERE.
THEY WOULD BACK OUT ONTO ROAD A AND THEN LEAVE THE SITE.
SO THERE'S NO TURNAROUND AREA OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
IT'S JUST AN AREA FOR THEM TO GET CLOSER TO THE PLAYGROUND IN BETWEEN THE ACCESS, UM, BETWEEN UNITS FOUR AND FIVE.
SO IT'S EMERGENCY ACCESS TO THE PLAYGROUND, NOT TO THE HOMES.
THEY WOULD ACCESS THE HOMES FROM ROAD A.
YES, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE HAVE THE MOVE ROAD.
THAT MAKES SENSE FOR HER TO GO THROUGH.
DO YOU HAVE A CURB? IT NEVER WORKED.
IF YOU COULD JUST GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, I GUESS.
ARE WE DONE? ARE WE DONE WITH THAT PREVIOUS SLIDE? WE CAN GO BACK TO IT.
WELL, I WAS JUST GONNA ASK THE QUESTION.
UM, THIS, THIS SHOWS THAT THE ONLY PARKING ARE, I'M JUST GUESSING TWO SPOTS PER, PER TOWNHOUSE.
WHERE IS, WHERE'S ANY OTHER PARKING AVAILABLE FOR VISITORS, PARTIES, BLAH, BLAH, WHATEVER, WHATEVER THE, IT HAPPENS.
I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING OTHER THAN WHAT'S AVAILABLE FOR EACH RESIDENT.
THERE'S NOTHING ELSE FUNDAMENTALLY AVAILABLE ANYWHERE.
EACH HOUSE HAS TWO GARAGE SPOTS AND TWO DRIVEWAY, DRIVEWAY SPOTS.
AND THEN THERE'S, UH, I FORGET HOW MANY VISITOR PARKING SPOTS.
THREE SPOTS TO THE, TO THE LOWER LEVEL THERE.
WHERE AT, WHERE AT? THE VERY BOTTOM LEFT.
SOUTH, UH, SOUTHWESTERN CORNER OF THE SITE.
IS THE, THE FIRE MARSHAL, ARE THEY ALLOWING STREET PARKING? IS THE STREET WIDE ENOUGH TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO PARK ON THE STREET? SO NO, IT'S NOT.
UH, SO THERE'S NO PARKING SIGNS THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY.
THERE'S ALSO LIMITED SPACE ON THESE STREETS TO PARK ONLY BECAUSE OF THE NUMBER OF CURB CUTS ASSOCIATED WITH TOWNHOUSES.
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE WERE ALSO REQUESTING A WAIVER TO GO DOWN TO A 26 FOOT CARTWAY, BECAUSE THERE IS NO PARKING ON STREET.
YOU HAVE THIS, YOU HAVE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF CURB CUTS WHICH REALLY LIMITS THE AMOUNT OF SPACES THAT YOU CAN, YOU CAN PARK ON THE ROAD.
RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU GOT A LOT OF DRIVEWAYS RIGHT? CORRECT.
IT'S THE NATURE OF A, UH, A TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT.
WELL, YEAH, BUT I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND.
WELL, I MEAN, YOU'RE RIGHT, JOE.
WE SEE A LOT OF THESE PLACES, YOU KNOW, WE SEE A LOT OF THESE NEW DEVELOPMENTS IN OUR TOWNSHIP AND I ALWAYS QUESTION THE ONE THAT JUST BUILD UP ON LEWIS ROAD.
IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO HAVE A BAR MITZVAH, I NEVER SEE WHERE EVERYBODY'S GONNA PARK.
[00:20:02]
NO, AGREE.AND REALLY WHAT THIS PLAN IS SHOWING IS TWO CAR GARAGE PARKING IS TWO.
AND WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT TAKING CREDIT FOR THAT BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND NOBODY REALLY PARKS IN THE GARAGE.
BUT THAT IS ONE OF THOSE SPECIAL SITUATIONS WHERE IF YOU ARE HAVING THAT EVENT AT YOUR HOUSE, YOU DO PULL YOUR CAR INTO YOUR GARAGE BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE RELATIVES COMING OVER.
THERE IS, THERE IS NOT ON STREET PARKING HERE AND WE'VE ALREADY RUN THAT BY THE FIRE MARSHAL.
I'M LESS CONCERNED ABOUT, UH, SOMEONE AND THEIR PARTY AND, AND THEIR ABILITY TO INVITE GUESTS.
I'M MORE CONCERNED IF THEY HAVE PEOPLE OVER AND THEM PARKING ON THE STREET REGARDLESS AND THEN THERE'S AN EMERGENCY, FIRE TRUCK CAN'T GET THROUGH.
AND THE ONLY, THE WAY THAT WE COMBAT THAT IS WE HAVE NO PARKING SIGNS THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY.
SO ULTIMATELY THAT BECOMES MORE OF AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS TO MOVE A TOWN HOME OR TWO TO ADD PARKING? WAS THERE PARKING? NO, THERE WAS NOT.
WASN'T THERE IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN, ALLISON, WASN'T THERE SOME PARKING BUILT IN, NOT IN THE ONE - I THOUGH IT WAS ON THE WESTERN, WESTERN PARKING, AS I RECALL.
WASN'T THERE SOME PARKING IN THAT ORIGINAL PLAN? THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING.
YEAH, I MEAN THERE WAS SOME PARKING.
IT WAS PRETTY CONSISTENT WITH THE AMOUNT OF PARKING THAT'S SHOWN HERE.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE THAT YOU WILL NOTICE IF YOU GO BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL PLAN, THERE WAS NO ADA SPACES THERE.
SO ONCE YOU ADD ADA SPACES THERE, YOU TECHNICALLY, YOU LOSE AN ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACE BECAUSE YOU NEED A VAN ACCESSIBLE SPACE.
SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT OUR OFF-STREET PARKING AREA THAT'S IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO WHITAKER AVENUE, YOU'LL SEE STRIPING IN THAT AREA.
THAT ALLOWS AN ADA ACCESSIBLE SPOT AS WELL AS AN ADA ACCESSIBLE PATH ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE PLAYGROUNDS.
SO IT'S PRETTY CONSISTENT WITH...
I DID MEAN TO CUT YOU OFF, SORRY.
IT'S PRETTY CONSISTENT WITH THE NUMBER OF SPACES, MAYBE WITHIN ONE OR TWO THAT WERE SHOWN ON THE ORIGINAL CONCEPT PLAN.
IN THAT EASTERN CORNER UP AROUND WHERE...
JEFF, CAN WE GET THAT? UP AROUND, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THAT NUMBER UP THERE? 11 THROUGH 18.
IN THAT CORNER, WASN'T THERE SOME ORIGINAL PARKING IN THAT AREA? YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.
SO ORIGINALLY ONE OF THE CONCEPT PLANS, NOT AT THE TOP, WE DIDN'T, WE, WE ALWAYS WERE MAINTAINING A BUFFER ALONG THE MEADOWS, BUT ALONG THE FRONTAGE OF WHITAKER, THERE WAS ORIGINALLY MORE PARKING, BUT THAT'S WHERE THOSE TREES ARE.
SO WE DID REMOVE THAT PARKING AS, DURING THE PROCESS AND DISCUSSIONS BECAUSE IT WAS APPARENT THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO RETAIN THOSE TREES.
SO THAT'S WHERE THE ORIGINAL...
THERE WAS SOME PARKING IN ONE OF THE CONCEPT PLANS ALONG THAT FRONTAGE ADDITIONAL PARKING.
SO IF SOMEBODY DOES HAVE A PARTY THAT MAYBE HAS MORE THAN, YOU KNOW, THE MOTHER-IN-LAW AND FATHER-IN-LAW, THEY HAVE 10, 12, 15 PEOPLE.
IT COMES TO THEM TO FIND PARKING.
SO WOULD THEY USE WHITAKER AND PARK ON THE STREET THERE? IS THERE PARKING THERE FOR PEOPLE TO DO KITCHEN? YEAH, THERE'S PARKING ON THE OTHER SIDE.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S REAL FAVORABLE, BUT OKAY.
BUT IF I'M LIVING IN, UH, IN TOWNHOUSE NUMBER, UH, 18, I MEAN, THEY DROP ME OFF DOWN THERE IN THE SOUTH, SOUTHWEST AREA.
THE VAN PULLS IN THERE, YOU KNOW, BUT HOW, HOW THE HELL DO I GET FROM THERE TO HOUSE 18? I MEAN, SO I'M NOT, SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE VALUE IS OF THE ADA PARKING.
SO IT'S NOT FOR THE RESIDENTS.
SO THE ADA PARKING IS NOT FOR THE RESIDENTS.
IF YOU LIVE IN UNIT 18, YOU WOULD GO INTO YOUR DRIVEWAY ULTIMATELY.
SO THE ADA PARKING IS, IS REALLY ONLY FOR SOMEBODY IN THE COMMUNITY WHO WANTS TO GO TO THAT PARK.
THEY DO HAVE A SPOT WHERE THEY CAN THE ADA REQUIREMENTS ONLY APPLY TO PUBLIC FACILITIES OR FACILITIES THAT ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
SO IN THIS INSTANCE, IT WOULD BE THE, THE, THE PARK AREA, THE PLAYGROUND.
THAT NEEDS TO HAVE AN ADA ACCESSIBLE GROUP TO GET THERE.
THEY HAVE TO, BECAUSE INDIVIDUALS WITH HANDICAPPED HAVE HANDICAPS HAVE TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS THAT FACILITY IN THE SAME MANNER THAT A NON-HANDICAPPED PERSON WOULD.
SO WHEN IT COMES TO AN INDIVIDUAL HOME, THERE'S NO ADA REQUIREMENT THAT YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE ADA ACCESSIBLE PARKING FOR RESIDENTIAL HOMES.
SO THEY DROP THE PEOPLE OFF OF THAT SPOT AND THEY, THEY SOMEHOW GET FROM THERE UP TO THE PLAYGROUND OR THE OPEN SPACE AREA SOMEHOW.
THERE'S AN ADA CLIENT SIDEWALK, SLOPE, GRADE, CURB BUMP, AND ALL THAT STUFF THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE IN ORDER TO GET THERE.
SO THERE IS, FROM THE ADA PARKING STALLS, THERE'S AN ADA ACCESSIBLE PATH THAT WRAPS AROUND THE UNITS AND ULTIMATELY GOES DIRECTLY TO PLAYGROUND.
[00:25:01]
THE EASTERN PROPERTY LINE OVER TO THE MEADOWS AS WELL.THE YELLOW IS ALL THE SIDEWALK.
WHATEVER THEY'RE CALLED TRAILS, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, RIGHT? OKAY.
WHILE I'M HERE, I'LL POINT OUT ONE OTHER THING.
UH, JUST GOING BACK TO THE, UH, THE SIDEWALK ITEM AS WELL.
IF YOU LOOK ALONG WHITAKER AVENUE, TYPICALLY YOU HAVE YOUR SIDEWALK IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THE ROADWAY.
BECAUSE WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT IN THIS COMMUNITY TO PRESERVE THE EXISTING TREES THAT ARE THERE, WE PUSH THE SIDEWALK FURTHER INTO THE SITE.
WHAT THIS ALLOWS US TO DO IS INCREASE THE VEGETATION ALONG WHITAKER AVENUE TO FURTHER BUFFER OUR DEVELOPMENT FROM THE EXISTING RESIDENCE ACROSS THE STREET.
SO YOU'LL NOTICE THAT, UH, THAT YELLOW LINE INDICATING THE CONCRETE IS FURTHER INTO THE SITE THAN WHAT YOU WOULD TYPICALLY SEE.
SO WE HAVE A FEW RENDERINGS HERE OF WHAT THE, UH, WHAT THE SITE WOULD LOOK LIKE.
UH, SO THIS IS A VIEW BASICALLY OF THOSE THREE SPOTS.
UH, SO THE VIEW OF THOSE THREE SPOTS AND THEN THE WALKWAY GOING UP TO THE PLAYGROUND AND THE BACKSIDE YOU CAN SEE BEHIND THE TOWNHOUSES HERE.
UH, THIS IS A VIEW, UH, BASICALLY FROM THE PLANNED SOUTH SIDE.
SO THIS IS ALL, UH, THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, UM, AND CATCHMENT AREA FOR RAINWATER.
UH, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT HERE IS OBVIOUSLY, UH, OF UTMOST CONCERN.
UH, AND THEN BUFFER PLANTINGS ALL AROUND THOSE, UH, EXISTING MATURE TREES ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE ON, ON THE, ON WHITAKER.
THIS IS A VIEW FROM THE, FROM THE GROUND LEVEL OF THE SAME AREA.
AGAIN, LOOKING UP THE HILL, UH, TOWARDS THE ENTRANCE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AND THEN THIS IS A VIEW OF THE PLAYGROUND.
UM, AS ALISON HAD SAID, WE'VE WORKED WITH, UH, STU HOFFMAN.
UH, WE'VE DONE A NUMBER OF ITERATIONS TO SORT OF MATCH UP WITH THE TOWNSHIP'S, UH, COLOR SCHEMES, UH, PREFERRED SPECIFICATIONS FOR PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT.
UM, WE SWAPPED OUT A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT THINGS, SO THIS IS WHERE WE'VE LANDED.
SHE SEEMED, UH, BE HAPPY WITH THIS.
THIS IS A VIEW FROM THE BACKSIDE ALL THE WAY UP THE HILL LOOKING BACK DOWN TOWARDS THE DEVELOPMENT.
UM, SO THERE'S A BUNCH OF PROGRAMMED, UH, COVERED AREAS FOR SEATING GROUPS AND THINGS.
UH, THE PLAYGROUND, UH, MATCHES UP WITH THE ONE THAT'S, UH, THE SAME MANUFACTURER AND SPEC FOR, UH, THE ONE THAT'S HERE AT BLACK ROCK PARK.
UH, A SERIES OF BOCCE COURTS AND THEN, UM, MORE PERMANENT BAGO, UH, STATIONS THAT ARE LIKE, THEY'RE HEAVY DUTY, THEY'LL LAST FOR A LONG TIME.
AND OBVIOUSLY, I THINK I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE, BUT THIS, YOU KNOW, AS YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS IS A SLOPING HILLSIDE.
SO WE HAVE A RETAINING WALL BUILT INTO THE SIDE OF THE HILL, UH, WHICH WE THINK WILL, YOU KNOW, DO TWO THINGS THAT'LL BLOCK, UH, VIEWS OF THE PLAYGROUND FROM THE NEIGHBORING COMMUNITY, UM, AND ALSO HOPEFULLY, UH, UH, HELP TO DEATH SOME OF THE SOUND.
GIVE US SOME OF THE SPECS OF THE, THE TWO CAR GARAGE, TWO CAR DRIVEWAY.
GIVE US THE SPECS OF THE SIZE OF THE UNITS, MULTIPLE SIZES, ONE SIZE? ONE SIZE.
UM - ONE SIZE? FOUR, FOUR BEDROOMS, TYPICALLY TWO AND A HALF PATHS.
UM, I THINK ABOUT 2,400 SQUARE FEET.
AND THE, UH, PRICE RANGE? THAT I'M NOT 100% ON.
ALLISON? THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE DETERMINED WHAT WE - THAT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S PAY GRADE.
YEAH, THAT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S PAY GRADE.
WE JUST DO THE PRETTY PICTURES.
I'M ALWAYS CONCERNED, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING AT WAYS TO MAKE THIS TOWNSHIP MORE AFFORDABLE.
AND, UH, BUT WE NEVER SEEM TO GET THERE.
EVERYBODY'S STARTING AT 800,000 AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO I, I WOULD ASSUME THIS IS GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, FOUR BEDROOMS, TWO AND A HALF BATHS, YOU KNOW, 2,400 SQUARE FEET.
YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE SELLING THEM FOR 300,000, THAT'S FOR SURE.
AND JEFF, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE, UH, PLAYGROUND PLAN? THE PLAYGROUND AROUND HERE.
YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO ASK, DO, DO YOU ANTICIPATE ANY, UH, LIKE GUARDRAIL OR RAILINGS, UH, DUE TO THE HEIGHT OF THESE WALLS AND SOMETHING TO KEEP KIDS FROM? POTENTIALLY.
UM, AND TYPICALLY YOU WANT TO HAVE ABOUT 30 INCHES OF, OF GUARD.
UM, ON THE BACKSIDE, UH, IF, IF IT DOES END UP GETTING TO BE WHERE THE GRADE IS HIGHER, THEN YEAH, WE WOULD, WE WOULD PUT RAILINGS UP, OF COURSE, FALL PROTECTION.
UM, JEN, ANY, ANYTHING FROM YOU? WELL HE'S NOT HERE.
WELL - OR I WAS HOPING BRIAN WOULD BE HERE SOON.
I PRESUME THEY LIKE TO PRESENT SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT THEY I'M SURE, BUT THAT'S
[00:30:01]
WHY I WAS GOING TO DO WATER REMEDIATION FIRST AND THEN HOPEFULLY BRIAN WILL GET YOUR CHOICE.UM, YEAH STEVE AND I HAD A CALL A WEEK OR TWO AGO AND UH, SOME CLARIFICATION ON SOME OF THE COMMENTS IN THE LETTER.
THEY MADE A REVISION UM, QUICKLY.
THERE ARE A COUPLE DESIGN ISSUES THAT THEY'RE WORKING THROUGH BUT NOTHING IS SUBSTANTIAL.
UM, THEY'LL BE ABLE TO MEET THE STORMWATER REQUIREMENT FOR THE ORDINANCE.
UM, THEY'RE REVISING SOME THINGS FOR CONSISTENCY BETWEEN DETAILS AND THE CALCULATION SHEETS.
JEN, YEAH I ALWAYS GET CONCERNED WHEN I SEE A LOT OF WAIVERS AND AT LEAST THE INITIAL REVIEW HERE HAS SOMETHING LIKE 18 AND SOME OF THEM ARE MINOR AND SOME OF THEM ARE MORE TECHNICAL.
DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERN ABOUT - NO, SO SOME OF THE WAIVERS IN THIS LETTER UM, THEY ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE MODIFIED AS PART OF THE ORDINANCE MODIFICATION THAT YOU VOTED ON EARLIER THIS EVENING.
UM, THAT WILL REMOVE THE NEED FOR SOME OF THESE WAIVERS GOING FORWARD.
THE ORDINANCE IS JUST BEHIND THE TIMES WITH THE MANAGE RELEASE CONCEPT FOR THE MBGS PERMIT UM, AND THE REQUIREMENTS THAT, THAT GO WITH THAT.
SO HOPEFULLY ONE OF THESE PROJECTS WILL BE THE LAST ONE THAT YOU SEE QUITE AS MANY WAIVERS AND THEN UM, THE WIDENING, YOU KNOW, CURBSIDE WALK, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO AS IT STANDS NOW, YOU'RE OKAY WITH THE WAIVER REQUESTS AND STUFF? I MEAN IT'S ALL CONSISTENT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE WE'RE DOING.
DID YOU, DID YOU WANT ME TO GO THROUGH THE WAIVERS OR? JEN HAS APPROVED THEM.
THERE ARE NO MAJOR ISSUES THAT SHE AND YOU RECEIVE THAT ARE SIGNIFICANT.
I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING JEN JUST SAID.
I MEAN SOME OF THESE WERE TECHNICAL LIKE NOW THAT THERE ARE TWO ACCESS POINTS TIGHTER THAN I THINK OUR ORDINANCE SAYS, IS THAT ANY BIG DEAL? YEAH, I THINK IT'S SHORT BY ABOUT 10 FEET OR SO.
THE SEPARATION BETWEEN THE TWO ACCESS POINTS ON THE ROAD.
WE'RE AT 190, IT HAS TO BE 200 FEET.
ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE AT 190 IS WE REALLY TRIED TO GET AS MUCH GREEN AREA AS WE COULD ALONG THE ROADWAY JUST FOR THE RESIDENTS.
SO ON EITHER SIDE OF ROAD A, THERE IS A STRIP THAT'S FIVE FEET.
IT'S NOT MUCH BUT IT'S AS GOOD AS WE COULD DO.
WE'RE NOT PUTTING TREES IN THAT AREA BUT IT IS GREEN SPACE TO KIND OF IMPROVE THE OVERALL GREENERY FOR THE COMMUNITY.
SO THAT'S WHY WE WENT FROM THE 200 THAT'S REQUIRED DOWN TO THE 190.
AND THAT, THAT'S FEEDBACK YOU GOT FROM THE COMMUNITY ALLISON? WE, WE RECEIVED FEEDBACK.
A LITTLE BIT OF AN IMPEDIMENT.
UM, I MEAN I, I DID NOT ATTEND THE RESIDENT MEETING THAT HIGHTOWN HAD BUT IT WAS OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS A CONCERN AND I THINK IT WAS REFERENCED AT SOME OF THE PUBLIC COMMENT WELL AS WELL WAS TRYING TO RETAIN GREENERY, THOSE TREES, ET CETERA.
SO WE WERE TRYING TO WORK WITH THAT AND INCORPORATE IT INTO THE DESIGN.
UM, I WILL SAY ON THE WAIVERS THERE IS ONE WAIVER THAT WE ARE WITHDRAWING UM THAT WILL BE REFLECTED IN THE SUBMISSION.
THERE WAS A UM WAIVER TO NOT NECESSARILY IDENTIFY ALL THE SPECIMEN TREES BUT UH WE ARE GOING TO HAVE AN ARBORIST TAKING A LOOK AT EVERYTHING ANYWAY.
WE ALSO ALREADY KNOW WHAT OUR TREES ARE ALONG THE FRONTAGE SO THAT IS SOMETHING WE CERTAINLY CAN COMPLY WITH AND WE ARE WITHDRAWING THAT WAIVER.
IS IT, IS IT FAIR TO UH THIS BOARD, IS IT FAIR TO ASSUME THAT, THAT WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE PROPOSED IN TERMS OF BUFFERING AND GREENISH AND ALL THAT STUFF, THE COMMUNITY IS SATISFIED WITH YOUR OPINION? UM I MEAN IT IS BASED ON YOUR COMPANY HIGH TOPS.
I MEAN I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE COMMUNITY BUT UM WE, WE UM BASED ON THE, YOU KNOW, BASED ON ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS UM WE WERE REQUIRED TO HAVE I THINK IT'S A TYPE TWO BUFFER OR EVEN BEYOND THAT IN THE MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT, PARTICULARLY ALONG THE MEADOWS PROPERTY LINE AND ALSO HAVING A FULL SCREEN ALONG THAT BACKSIDE EVEN IF IT TECHNICALLY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN REQUIRED BY THE ORDINANCE UM BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT'S RESIDENTIAL TO RESIDENTIAL.
UM BUT WE ARE PROVIDING THAT FULL YOU KNOW LINE ALONG THE BACK.
UM THERE'S SCREENING ON THE, ON THE SIDE AS WELL BUT IF YOU WANT TO ADDRESS IT IN MORE DETAIL.
YEAH AND THE SIMPLEST WAY TO ANSWER THAT IS WE'RE OBVIOUSLY GOING TO PROVIDE ALL THE REQUIRED LANDSCAPING.
WE DO HAVE TWO WAIVERS FOR LANDSCAPING BUT THAT'S NOT FOR QUANTITY, THAT'S FOR LOCATION.
ULTIMATELY WE'RE GOING TO PROVIDE ALL THE BUFFERING THAT'S REQUIRED ALONG WHITAKER AS WELL AS THE SOUTHERN PROPERTY LINE AS WELL.
UM SO OUR INTENT IS AND WE WILL BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR ANY WAIVERS TO COMPLY WITH ALL THE LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS FOR BUFFERING AS WELL AS QUANTITY.
THE REASON I ASKED THAT QUESTION IS BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOME PEOPLE
[00:35:01]
HERE THAT ARE GOING TO GET UP AND SPEAK IN A FEW MINUTES.I JUST WONDERED WHAT YOUR IMPRESSION WAS IF YOU HAD MEETINGS WITH THE COMMUNITY.
Y GUYS THINK YOU'RE BOTH ON THE SAME PAGE.
WE'RE GOING TO HEAR REAL SOON IF WE ARE.
SO THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO JUST SEEK YOUR OPINION ON YOU KNOW WHERE YOU THINK THEY'RE AT AND WE'RE HERE, RIGHT? SO OKAY THAT'S ALL REASON.
I WAS LOOKING FOR SPECIFICS TO SAY YEAH WE HAD A MEETING, IT WENT WELL, WE'RE HAPPY.
AND IF OBVIOUSLY WE'LL LISTEN TO EVERYTHING THAT THE COMMUNITY DOES SAY.
IF THEY WANT ADDITIONAL SHRUBS ALONG THEIR, THEIR PROPERTY LINE BUFFER WE'LL TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION AS WELL.
UM, THE ONLY OTHER ITEM I WANTED TO HIT ON WAS THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FOR THE SITE.
SO YOU CAN SEE THE DARKER AREAS THAT ARE ON THE RENDERING THAT'S UP THERE.
THERE'S THREE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FACILITIES THAT ARE PROPOSED BUT ALONG THE SOUTHERN PROPERTY LINE THAT IS OUR LARGEST FACILITY.
WHAT WE'VE ALSO DONE IS WE HAVE INCLUDED AN ADDITIONAL 750 SQUARE FEET OF ADDITIONAL IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE.
STORMWATER MANAGEMENT IS A HUGE ISSUE IN EVERY MUNICIPALITY.
SO WE'VE OVERSIZED THESE BASINS FOR APPROXIMATELY 30,000 SQUARE OR 30,000 CUBIC FEET OF ADDITIONAL STORAGE.
SO IT'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF ADDITIONAL STORAGE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING ON THE ON SITE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FACILITIES TO HELP MITIGATE ANY STORMWATER MANAGEMENT IMPACTS FROM THE DEVELOPMENT.
SO JUST TO SUMMARIZE, WE ARE MEETING THE CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR STORMWATER AS WELL AS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND BY PROVIDING ADDITIONAL CAPACITY WITHIN THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT BASINS.
SURE, DID THEY ANSWER YOUR QUESTION HERE? YEAH, THAT, THAT, THAT'S FINE AND I'M SURE YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THE STORMWATER STATEMENT THAT THE GENTLEMAN MADE IN TERMS OF CAPACITY.
YES AND THAT I CAN CONFIRM THAT THAT ADDITIONAL IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE IS IN THEIR CALCULATIONS AND QUITE HONESTLY THAT'S IN EXCESS OF WHAT ALL OF THESE UNITS COULD ADD ON.
UM, THE DECKS AND PATIOS ARE VERY LIMITED IN THE BACKSIDE OF THE UNITS.
UM, THAT'S ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT FOR THE SWALES AND THE PIPE CONVEYING SYSTEMS THAT ARE OUT THERE.
NOBODY WANTS TO PUT A DECK FOOTER THROUGH A PIPE.
SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE LIMITED BY EASEMENTS THAT ARE BACK THERE SO THAT 7500, THAT'S IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE IN THE CALCULATIONS IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THERE.
THE ONLY OTHER QUESTION I HAD, UH, THE TURNING RADIUS IS, I KNOW THERE WERE RADIUSES IN THE, IN THE DRAWING PACKAGE.
EVERYTHING WAS OKAY IN TERMS OF FIRE, FIRE TRUCK, UH, EMERGENCY VEHICLES AND THAT KIND OF THING? YES.
SO WE DID PROVIDE TURNING PLANS TO THE FIRE MARSHAL.
UH, AND WE GET A, WE GOT AN EMAIL BACK SAYING THAT ALL THE EQUIPMENT CAN MAKE THE TURNS BASED ON THE RADIUSES THAT WE HAVE.
THAT'S ONE OF THE WAIVERS THAT WE'RE REQUESTING.
SO WE DO PROVIDE TURNING TEMPLATES SHOWING THAT EMERGENCY SERVICES CAN NAVIGATE THE INTERNAL PRIVATE ROADWAYS.
AND THAT INCLUDES THAT LITTLE EASEMENT THERE WHERE YOU CAN UP TOWARD THE PLAYGROUND AND YOU GET IN THERE, BACK OUT SAFELY.
BUT THERE'S NO TURNING MOVEMENT IN THAT AREA YOU WOULD PULL IN, HE OR SHE WOULD PULL IN AND THEN BACK.
THAT'S A STABILIZED SURFACE ALSO.
I THOUGHT MAYBE GRASSY BUT IT'S GONNA BE A - YEAH, WE RUN OUT OF COLORS REAL QUICK ON THIS.
SO THAT AREA IS A STABILIZED SURFACE AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE GREEN AREA FOR THE PLAYGROUND, WE ACTUALLY MODEL THAT, SORRY, WE MODEL THAT AS IMPERVIOUS.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS GOING TO BE.
WE WOULD BET THAT IT'S, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ASPHALT, BUT WE COULD ALSO BET THAT IT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE A ONE AREA BECAUSE IF IT IS A ONE AREA AND YOU HAVE 20 KIDS RUNNING AROUND, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A ONE AREA FOR VERY LONG.
SO IT MAY BE ONE OF THOSE SYNTHETIC MATS, BUT IT'S MODELED AS IMPERVIOUS FOR STORMER.
UM, I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO TALK, BECAUSE I KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE HAD THIS BEFORE.
THERE WAS A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT TRAFFIC.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT JEN, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO? LET THEM MAKE A PRESENTATION AND HOPEFULLY BRIAN SHOWS UP.
UH, WHAT SHOULD WE DO HERE? WHAT DO YOU, WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND? I THINK THEY CAN MAKE THEIR PRESENTATION.
BRIAN AND GREG DID HAVE A CALL YESTERDAY THAT I SAT IN ON AND EAVESDROPPED.
SO I WILL DO MY BEST TO RELAY EVERYTHING.
AND SAY YAY OR NAY THAT I AGREE WITH GREG.
YOU KNOW, WE FROM THE ORIGINAL BACK WHAT A YEAR AGO THE BIG THING WAS TO DROP, YOU KNOW, GETTING OUT ON THE, ONTO UH, EGYPT ROAD AND UH, AND ALL THAT.
YEAH, IT'S ALWAYS AN ISSUE.THAT'S WHY I'LL BE IN BUSINESS.
UM, AGAIN, MY NAME IS GREG RICHARDSON.
I'M WITH TRAFFIC PLANNING AND DESIGN.
I'M ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION THERE.
SO I GO THROUGH THESE INTERSECTIONS.
I HAVE, OUR OFFICE USED TO BE ON EGYPT ROAD FOR OVER 20 YEARS.
SO KNOW THIS AREA WELL, TRAFFIC HAS CHANGED OVER THE YEARS BUT UM, THE UH, WE UNDERSTAND THERE WAS SOME, YOU KNOW, SOME ISSUES.
UH, I'VE SAT IN ON SOME OF THE
[00:40:01]
MEETINGS WITH THE TOWNSHIP, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION SUPERVISORS.UH, WE'VE HEARD, UH, WE'VE HAD COMMENTS FROM STAFF.
WE DID PERFORM A TRAFFIC STUDY.
WE LOOKED AT A NUMBER OF INTERSECTIONS IN THE AREA.
WE LOOKED AT NORWOOD AND UH, BRIDGE STREET, ROUTE 29.
UH, GRACE AND UH, ROUTE 29, THE, THE MAIN INTERSECTION, EGYPT AND, AND BRIDGE, UH, AND UH, WHITAKER AND EGYPT ROAD.
UH, WE CONDUCTED TRAFFIC COUNTS, UH, AT THOSE INTERSECTIONS.
WE OBTAINED TRAFFIC VOLUMES DURING THE MORNING COMMUTING HOURS AS WELL AS THE AFTERNOON HOURS.
SAME AS YOU NORMALLY WOULD SEE FOR A TRAFFIC STUDY FOR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
WE ALSO DID WHAT WE CALL GAP STUDIES.
UH, BASICALLY WE CALCULATE THE NUMBER OF GAPS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO VEHICLES THAT MIGHT BE MAKING A LEFT OUT ON FROM THE SIDE STREETS ONTO THE MAIN STREETS.
AND WE ALSO, BECAUSE WE HEARD FROM THE NEIGHBORS, UH, ABOUT SPEEDING ALONG WHITAKER, WE ALSO CONDUCTED WHAT WE CALL SPEED STUDY.
IT'S A, IT'S A RADAR STUDY THAT WE, WE, WE, UH, CONDUCT TO, UH, DETERMINE WHAT WE CALL THE 85TH PERCENTILE, WHICH IS WHAT, UH, IS TYPICALLY USED IN THE INDUSTRY TO DETERMINE SPEED LIMITS, UM, AND THE SAFE SPEEDS THAT ARE ALONG THE ROADWAY.
UH, IT ALSO WILL GIVE YOU AN INDICATION WHETHER, UH, IF YOU SEE THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT AND PEOPLE ARE TRAVELING FASTER THAN THAT, THEN THERE MIGHT BE AN UNDERLYING PROBLEM.
UM, SO BASED ON THAT, WE DID PRODUCE THE TRAFFIC STUDY.
IT WAS REVIEWED BY YOUR, UH, CONSULTANT, UH, GILMORE.
UM, THEY PRODUCED A, A LEVEL OF COMMENTS.
UH, ONE OF HIS COMMENTS WAS TO ADD GRACE AND, UH, BRIDGE STREET TO THE, TO THE SCOPE, WHICH WE DID BECAUSE, UH, IT'S UNDERSTOOD THAT IT IS DIFFICULT TO MAKE LEFT TURNS OUT ONTO THOSE TWO ROADWAYS.
UH, NOT ONLY JUST BECAUSE OF VOLUME, BUT ALSO BECAUSE OF THE PROXIMITY TO THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL.
UM, WE KNOW FOR YEARS THAT TRAFFIC SIGNAL WAS NOT THERE.
UH, IT WAS PUT IN, UH, WHEN THE DETOUR WAS THERE.
UM, SO, AND IT'S, IT'S REMAINED.
IT'S, UH, UH, SOMETIMES IT'S, YOU KNOW, UH, WHETHER PENNDOT WANTS IT OR THE TOWNSHIP WANTS IT IS SOMETIMES OFF - OFTEN VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO TAKE AWAY AFTER YOU PUT ONE IN.
UM, BUT, UM, I, YOU KNOW, OVER MY 35 PLUS YEARS, I'VE SEEN MAYBE ONE OR TWO SIGNALS THAT WERE TAKEN OUT.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S EVER GONNA HAPPEN.
SO, UM, SO BASED ON THE, WE, WE, UH, WE SUBMITTED A, A REVISED TRAFFIC STUDY, RECEIVED ANOTHER ROUND OF COMMENTS.
MAJORITY OF THOSE COMMENTS ARE, WILL COMPLY.
OUR RESPONSES WILL BE, WILL COMPLY.
UH, TWO OF THE IMPROVEMENTS, UH, OR TWO OF THE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE RECOMMENDED, UH, IN THE STUDY AS FAR AS IMPROVEMENTS ARE, UM, THE, UH, IN- IN- INSTALLATION OF WHAT WE CALL DO NOT BLOCK BOXES.
UM, YOU'RE STARTING TO SEE THOSE MORE OFTEN, YOUR TRAFFIC SIGNALS.
AND, UM, WHAT WE WOULD PROPOSE AT THE, AT THE DEVELOPER'S, UH, COST, UH, IF THERE'S ANY PERMIT, UH, YOU KNOW, PERMIT, UH, PROVIDED OR, UH, REQUIRED, UH, ANY COSTS RELATED TO THAT, UH, WE WOULD, UH, THE DEVELOPER OR THE APPLICANT WOULD BE, UH, FOOTING THE BILL ON THAT.
UM, UM, SO WHAT IT, WHAT IT IS ESSENTIALLY IS A, IS A PAINTED WHITE BOX WITH AN X IN THE MIDDLE.
AND WHAT IT DOES IS IT, THERE'S ASSOCIATED SIGNAGE WITH THAT AND IT SAYS DO NOT BLOCK BOX, ENCOURAGING DRIVERS NOT TO SIT IN THE BOX, GIVING VEHICLES THE OPPORTUNITY TO PULL OUT FROM THE SIDE STREETS.
UH, BRIDGE STREET IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THAT TO BE THERE ALSO BECAUSE IF ANYBODY WANTS TO MAKE A TURN ONTO NORWOOD OR ONTO, UH, IN THAT AREA, ONE LEFT TURN VEHICLE COULD BACK UP ALL THOSE VEHICLES AS YOU SEE ON, ON ROUTE 29, UH, NORTH, UH, BACKING UP NORTH.
SO IF, IF THAT COULD BE, UH, INSTALLED, CERTAINLY THIS IS A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE ARE, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, WE WILL, YOU KNOW, PUT IN, UH, IF THE TOWNSHIP APPROVES IT.
IS THAT IN YOUR 35 YEARS OF, UH, EXPERIENCE? IS THAT, ARE THEY SUCCESSFUL? WE'VE SEEN, WELL, WELL, AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S ONLY AS MUCH AS PEOPLE WILL GET TO WORK AT 8:00 IN THE MORNING.
I WANT TO GET THINKING ABOUT MY MEETING AND - YEAH.
I MEAN, SOMEONE COULDN'T, UH, NECESSARILY GIVE YOU A TICKET.
A POLICE OFFICER COULDN'T GIVE YOU A TICKET THERE.
UH, IT'S THERE FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, TO ENCOURAGE DRIVERS TO BE COURTEOUS AS OPPOSED TO WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST, WHICH IS THE COURTESY GAP.
WHEN YOU BASICALLY, YOU'RE IN THE GAUNTLET AND YOU'RE TAKING YOUR CHANCE.
UH, SO YOU STILL SHOULD USE CAUTION WHEN YOU MAKE THE TURN EITHER WAY.
THAT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
IT'S JUST YOU'RE HOPING THAT THE PEOPLE ARE COURTEOUS.
YEAH, AND PENDOT, AGAIN, IT'S ON TWO PENNDOT ROADS.
WE WOULD HAVE TO GET THEIR APPROVAL, BUT WE FOUND THAT THEY'RE VERY AGREEABLE TO THAT.
THEY MAKE THE COMMENT THEMSELVES, UH, WHEN THEY SEE IT, BECAUSE IT'S VERY COMMON, UH, WHEN YOU HAVE DRIVEWAYS AND, AND, UH, LOCAL STREETS NEAR A TRAFFIC SIGNAL.
UM, THE ONLY OTHER SOLUTION WOULD BE TO, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IF THERE WAS AN ISSUE THERE, A SAFETY ISSUE, UH,
[00:45:01]
WOULD BE TO PROHIBIT LEFT TURNS FROM THE DRIVEWAY, ROADWAYS.BUT THAT'S AN EXISTING DEFICIENCY.
DON'T THINK THE NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE TURNS, UH, PROHIBITED.
UH, I DON'T THINK THE TOWNSHIP EMERGENCY, UH, PERSONNEL.
UH, BUT IF IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY THAT'S WITHIN THE TOWNSHIP'S PREROGATIVE TO, YOU KNOW, IMPLEMENT THAT.
BUT OTHER THAN THAT, THERE'S REALLY NO IMPROVEMENTS THAT YOU COULD DO.
A TRAFFIC SIGNAL IS NOT WARRANTED AT ANY OF THOSE INTERSECTIONS.
DON'T MEET THE VOLUME WARRANTS, UH, TOO CLOSE TO THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL THAT'S OUT THERE NOW.
UM, AGAIN IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, HOW MUCH PAIN IS THIS GONNA CAUSE THESE 40, WHAT IS IT, 40? 45.
HOW MUCH PAIN, SCALE OF ONE TO FIVE, HOW MUCH PAIN IS IT GONNA BE? WELL, IN, IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A PREVIOUS USE ON THE SITE, THE OFFICE BUILDING, WHICH GENERATED TWICE AS MUCH TRAFFIC AS THE, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING HERE, UH, THAT IS THE MEASURABLES, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE USE.
UH, IT, IT'S, IT'S ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS I HEARD A COUPLE CHUCKLES BACK THERE, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT IS WHAT IT IS.
I MEAN, THERE, THERE WAS A USE THERE.
UM, THERE WAS A SCHOOL BEFORE.
UH, SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY COULD GENERATE MORE THESE DAYS BECAUSE A LOT OF PARENTS DRIVE THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL.
NOT BACK IN, WHEN IT WAS A SCHOOL.
UH, FOR HERE, PROBABLY NOT AS MUCH.
BUT THERE WAS, THERE WAS A PROFESSIONAL OFFICE, UH, WITH A LARGE PARKING FIELD AND YOU CAN SEE HOW MANY PARKING SPACES ARE OUT THERE.
CERTAINLY I'M NOT GONNA SIT UP HERE AND SAY IT'S NOT GONNA GENERATE TRAFFIC.
UH, HOWEVER, YOU HAVE TO MANAGE THAT TRAFFIC AND THE TRAFFIC LEVELS AND WE HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBERS, IT'S, WHAT WE FOUND IT IS, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE PROJECTING IN THE STUDY IS 21 TRIPS DURING THE ONE HOUR PERIOD IN THE MORNING.
THAT'S ONE NEW TRIP EVERY THREE MINUTES.
AS, AND IN THE AFTERNOON, IT'S VERY SIMILAR, 23 TRIPS.
AND AN OFFICE BUILDING OF, OF THE SIZE THAT WAS THERE, 22,000 WOULD GENERATE TWICE AS MANY TRIPS.
SO - HOW MANY HOMES ARE THERE? HOW MANY? 45.
AND ONLY 23 TRIPS IN THE MORNING RESTAURANT? YES.
A TOWNHOUSE USUALLY, UH, IS ABOUT A HALF TRIP DURING THE PEAK HOUR.
NOW - AND THAT COMES - AGAIN, THAT'S THE MISCONCEPTION THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A HOUSE THERE, YOU GOT TWO PEOPLE, THEY DRIVE TO A CAR.
NOT EVERYBODY LEAVES AT THE SAME TIME.
UH, THEY DON'T, A LOT OF PEOPLE THESE DAYS, ESPECIALLY, AND WE'RE USING OLDER DATA, A LOT OF PEOPLE WORK FROM HOME THESE DAYS.
UM, AND SO THEREFORE, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE TWO CARS, KIDS THAT MAY DRIVE.
THOSE ARE GONNA BALANCE OUT AFTER, AFTER A WHILE.
NOW, AGAIN, WE TALKED ABOUT THE NUMBER OF BEDROOMS HERE, SO, BUT THAT'S BASED ON THE NUMBERS, THE NATIONAL DATA THAT WE USE.
UM, YOUR CONSULTANT HAS REVIEWED THOSE AND, AND AGREED WITH THE METHODOLOGY THAT WE USED.
WE WILL BE, UH, REQUIRED TO PAY AN IMPACT FEE, UH, TO, UH, TO OFFSET SOME OF THE, UH, TRAFFIC IMPACTS.
THE TOWNSHIP CAN, WILL, THAT WILL GO INTO YOUR ACT 209, UH, FUND AND YOU CAN USE THAT, UH, HOWEVER THE TOWNSHIP SEES FIT.
NOW, WE'LL ALSO, ONE OF THE ITEMS I, I WANT TO MENTION THAT BECAUSE I SAID WE DID DO A SPEED STUDY, UH, ALONG WHITAKER BECAUSE WE HEARD ABOUT POTENTIALLY PEOPLE CUT THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THERE'S EXCESSIVE QUEUES ON ROUTE 29 AND AT, UH, EGYPT BECAUSE OF THE SIGNAL.
UH, WE DID RECOGNIZE, WE DID FIND OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, DETERMINED THAT, UH, IT DOES BACK UP QUITE A BIT.
IT BACKS UP PAST NORWOOD, UH, BACKS UP PAST GRACE STREET, UH, DURING THE EVENING.
UM, WHAT THAT DOES IS IT BASICALLY MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT TO PULL OUT IN THE SIDE STREETS.
UM, BUT WHAT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE FOUND THAT, AND I WAS VERY SURPRISED FOR THIS TOO, IS I THOUGH MORE PEOPLE WOULD CUT THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE THEY WOULD, DIDN'T WANT TO SIT THROUGH SEVERAL CYCLES OF THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL.
UM, THE TRAFFIC VOLUMES, I WAS VERY SURPRISED.
I, I, YOU KNOW, SCRATCHING MY HEAD THAT THERE WASN'T MORE PEOPLE MAKING THE RIGHT ONTO NORWOOD OR GRACE AND THEN GOING UP WHITAKER AND MAKING A RIGHT TURN.
SO I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE VOLUMES DON'T BEAR THAT OUT.
BUT THE SPEED STUDY THAT WE DID, UH, SHOWED THAT THE, UH, POSTED SPEED LIMIT IS 25.
THE 85TH PERCENTILE, UH, SPEED THAT WE FOUND THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS 34 MILES PER HOUR.
UH, CERTAINLY, UM, YOU KNOW, THE TOWNSHIP HAS TRIED TO DO SOME, UH, MITIGATION MEASURES.
THEY POSTED, WHEN YOU TURN OFF OF EGYPT, THERE IS A, A PAINTED, UM, YOU KNOW, LEGEND THERE THAT SAYS 25 MILES PER HOUR, BASICALLY TO TRY TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, AND NOT ONLY WITH THIS, UH, POSTED SIGNS, BUT WITH THE, THE, UH, PAPER MARKINGS.
AS WELL AS THEY, THE TOWNSHIP HAS THE, YOU KNOW, THE PARKING ON THE, ON THE STREET AND THEY'VE, UH, ALSO YOU HAVE PUT IN, UH, WHAT WE CALL TRANSVERSE PAPER MARKINGS, LIKE TO NARROW THE ROADWAY, AGAIN, TO GIVE IT SOME VISUAL, UM, ACUITY, WHICH IS BASICALLY TO TRY TO GIVE THE DRIVER AN IDEA THAT THE ROAD IS NOT AS WIDE AS IT REALLY IS.
[00:50:01]
AND, UH, SO THAT, THAT HELPS.SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T, UH, LOOKED AT ANY FURTHER TRAFFIC CALMING ALONG THE ROADWAY.
WE'RE CERTAINLY LOOKING AT, WE'RE WILLING TO LOOK AT THAT BECAUSE THIS IS OUR, YOU KNOW, MY, MY CLIENT AND WHOEVER BUILDS THE HOMES AND THE, YOU KNOW, THE FINAL END PRODUCT, THE, THE NEIGHBORS THAT LIVE THERE, THE RESIDENTS, UH, WE CERTAINLY WANNA MAKE IT AS S- SAFE AS POSSIBLE.
UM, AND SO THEREFORE WE'RE, WE'RE OPEN TO IDEAS, ANY KIND OF LOW COST, UH, IDEAS SUCH AS AN INCREASED PAVEMENT MARKINGS.
WE'RE NOT CERTAINLY SAYING PUT IN, YOU KNOW, SPEED HUMPS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE THE TOWNSHIP'S PREROGATIVE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UH, UH, YOU GET POSITIVES AND NEGATIVES WITH THE, SO - I JUST WANTED TO INTERRUPT.
UH, YOU MADE AN INTERESTING COMMENT ABOUT SPEED A MINUTE AGO ABOUT, UH, IF I UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY, AVERAGE SPEED OF LIKE 34 MILES AN HOUR.
YEAH, IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY HIGHER.
THE, THE AVERAGE SPEED IS PROBABLY A LITTLE LOWER, BUT THIS IS WHAT WE- WELL, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE COMMENT THAT STRUCK ME, THERE'S A, ONE OF THE, UH, ITEMS IN THE, THE REVIEW LETTER TALKS ABOUT THE TIGHTNESS OF THE RADIUS OF THESE STREETS WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT AND BECAUSE THEY'RE SMALLER, AGAIN, IF I'M READING THIS RIGHT, UH, THEY'RE SMALLER THAN SORT OF THE DESIGN STANDARD.
UM, THEY CAN ONLY SUPPORT A 10 MILES AN HOUR SPEED.
IS, IS, IS THE TIGHTNESS OF THE, THE ROAD CREATING A HAZARDOUS CONDITION? ARE, ARE WE REFERRING TO THE INTERNAL ROADWAY? I'M READING THIS RIGHT.
IT'S THE INTERNAL ROAD, RIGHT? YEAH, THE, THE TWO 90 DEGREE BENDS OF IT, UH, ON ROAD A.
WELL, I, THAT'S NOT PART OF MY, MY REPORT.
UH, CERTAINLY I COULD COMMENT ON IT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, BASED ON MY REVIEW OF THESE KIND OF PLANS FORGIVE ME, IT JUST MADE ME THINK OF THIS SPEED AND TRAFFIC.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT SECTION OF THE LETTER, YOU KNOW.
SO CERTAINLY WELL WITHIN YOUR RIGHT TO ASK THE QUESTION, CERTAINLY MAYBE, UH, STEVE AND, AND, AND APOLOGIZE, UM, YOU KNOW, BRIAN CAN MENTION - IF I COULD REAL QUICK, JUST FOR THE, THE INTERNAL, THAT'S, THAT'S MORE OF A TRAFFIC CALMING DEVICE.
SO RATHER THAN PUTTING A STOP SIGN THERE, IF YOU HAVE A SMALLER RADIUS, PEOPLE SLOW DOWN.
SO IT'S ONE OF THE WAYS THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY CONTROL THE TRAFFIC THROUGH THE COMMUNITY.
THIS IS A BIG LOOPING ROADWAY.
IT'S CONDENSED AS WELL, SO THE PROBABILITY OF SOMEBODY GETTING THEIR SPEED UP VERY HIGH IN THIS SITUATION IS LOW.
BUT THE, ONE OF THE WAYS YOU CAN ACTUALLY REDUCE THAT FURTHER IS BY PUTTING A SMALLER RADIUS AT THE END SO THEY HAVE TO SLOW DOWN, TURN THROUGH THE RADIUS, THEN THEY HAVE ANOTHER STRAIGHT SECTION, ANOTHER SMALLER RADIUS.
THE OTHER OPTION IS YOU PUT A STOP SIGN THERE, BUT RATHER, IF YOU STOP THEM, WE'D RATHER, WE WOULD RATHER KEEP TRAFFIC MOVING ALONG THESE ROADWAYS.
THERE'S ONLY 45 HOUSES IN THE COMMUNITY.
THIS IS REALLY A TRAFFIC CALMING DEVICE FOR THE RESIDENTS.
YEAH, I, I, AND AGAIN, I BRING IT UP BECAUSE I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING MENTIONED ABOUT THAT, UH, IN DRAWINGS ABOUT THAT BEING A STRATEGY OR SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE DONE, UH, SO.
YEAH, AND REALLY THE ONLY WAY WE ADDRESS IT IS IN THE WAIVER REQUEST LETTER.
SO WE ARE ASKING FOR A WAIVER BECAUSE THESE ARE PRIVATE STREETS.
BECAUSE WE, 150 IS REQUIRED, WE'RE GOING DOWN TO 25, WE'VE PROVIDED TURNING MOVEMENTS TO THE FIRE MARSHAL.
WE CAN MAKE ALL OF THE MOVEMENTS WORK ON SITE.
BY REDUCING THAT RADIUS AS OPPOSED TO PUTTING A STOP SIGN THERE, YOU ULTIMATELY GET THE RESIDENTS TO REDUCE THEIR SPEED AS THEY'RE GOING AROUND THAT CURVE.
I'M BEING FACETIOUS, BUT, UM, NO, I, I, I, YOU KNOW, MY COMMENT IS KIND OF LEANING TOWARDS, YOU KNOW, UH, AGAIN, WE'VE ASKED FOR, THERE'S A LOT OF WAIVERS HERE, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO MAKE THE PLAN WITH, WITHOUT COMPROMISING SOME OF THESE STANDARDS? THAT, THAT, THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING.
HOW MANY WAIVERS ARE YOU LOOKING FOR IN TRAFFIC? I, I DON'T, I CAN'T...
I'LL LET STEVE, HE, HE PUT THE LETTER TOGETHER, SO I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANY, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANY TRAFFIC RELATED.
THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING LIKE THE, THE SEPARATION BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAYS.
I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S A PROBABLY GRAY AREA.
CATEGORY YOU WANT TO PUT IT IN.
IT'S PROBABLY PRETTY CLOSE TO FOUR OR FIVE.
SO IT'S THE, THE CAR WAY WIDTH ITSELF.
ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE 26 FEET IS BECAUSE THERE'S NO ONE STREET PARKING.
SO YOU DON'T NEED A WIDER CART WAY BECAUSE THERE'S VEHICLES THAT ARE GOING TO BE THERE THAT YOU HAVE TO MANEUVER AROUND.
UH, THERE IS THE RADIUS OF THE CURVES THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.
THESE AGAIN ARE NOT PUBLICLY DEDICATED ROADWAYS.
THEY'RE NOT OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
AND HOA IS GOING TO MAINTAIN ALL OF THESE ROADWAYS.
UM, THERE'S THE, THE INTERSECTION SPACING FROM WHERE ROAD A COMES OFF OF WHITAKER AND THEN WHERE ROAD A COMES BACK OUT TO WHITAKER.
BUT AGAIN, THAT'S TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL GREEN AREA THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY.
[00:55:01]
FOOT SIGHT DISTANCE THAT'S REQUIRED.AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE TWO ROADWAYS ARE ONLY 190 FEET APART.
I BELIEVE THOSE ARE THE ONLY ONES.
WELL, I'M GOING TO ASK BRIAN HERE IN A MINUTE.
I'M JUST GETTING YOUR SIDE AND WE'RE GOING TO MOVE IT OVER TO BRIAN HERE IN ABOUT TWO SECONDS.
I'LL ASK BRIAN IF MAYBE HE, IF THERE'S SOMETHING MORE HE, HE MIGHT KNOW.
BRIAN, YOU WANT TO MAKE COMMENTS ON ALL THIS? YEAH.
SO I MEAN, THE, THE LAYOUT THAT YOU'VE SEEN, YOU KNOW, HAS NOT CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY FROM TENTATIVE SKETCH, RIGHT? IF, IF WE'VE HAD THIS U SHAPE OF A, A ROADWAY NETWORK, IT DIDN'T MEET THE TOWNSHIP STANDARDS FOR STREET GEOMETRY AND DESIGN WITH TENTATIVE SKETCH.
UM, THE INTENTION HAS ALWAYS BEEN FOR IT TO NEED A WAIVER.
UH, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING NEW, BUT IT IS A COMBINATION OF A NARROWER CARTWAY WITH A, UH, A CURVE, TWO CURVES THAT INTERNAL TO THE SITE THAT ARE SUBSTANDARD AS IT RELATES TO THE ORDINANCE.
UM, TRAFFIC CALMING IS, IS A, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY THERE'S AN ASPECT TO THAT, YOU KNOW, OF THE TYPE OF THE CURVE.
UM, AND THEY, THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD BE DESIGNING YOUR ROADWAYS TO THE SPEED YOU WANT PEOPLE TO DRIVE THEM.
IF YOU GIVE THEM WIDE, STRAIGHT, FLAT STREETS, THEY ARE GOING TO GO FASTER.
IF YOU GIVE THEM NARROWER, CURVY STREETS, YOU WILL GET THEM TO GO SLOWER.
SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, ARE THEY MEETING THE ORDINANCE? NO.
UM, IS IT APPROPRIATE TO GIVE THEM A WAIVER BECAUSE OF THE, THE DESIGN OF THEIR, THEIR ROADWAY NETWORK? IT IS REALLY THEIR INTERNAL STREET.
IT'S NOT A PUBLICLY DEDICATED STREET.
I WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION WITH YOU IF THAT WERE THE CASE.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A COMBINATION OF THOSE DIFFERENT, UH, DESIGN ELEMENTS THAT RELATE TO, I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY LIKE FOUR DIFFERENT WAIVERS THAT ALL COME INTO PLAY BECAUSE OF THE OVERALL LAYOUT OF THE, OF THE DEVELOPMENT.
I, I, I'M NOT SO MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT THE, THE, THE ROADWAYS.
IF THE FIRE MARSHAL SAID IT'S OKAY, YOU'RE THINKING IT'S GENERALLY OKAY.
I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE TRAFFIC STUDY ON WHITAKER AND, AND GOING OUT TO 29 OR EGYPT ROAD.
WHAT'S YOUR FEELINGS ON ALL THAT? YEAH.
SO I MEAN, THIS AREA OF THE TOWNSHIP, YOU KNOW, HAS EXISTING DIFFICULTIES TODAY.
UM, THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT WILL ADD TRAFFIC TO THAT ROADWAY NETWORK.
UM, AS MR. RICHARDSON POINTED OUT, THIS ISN'T A, UH, FARMLAND THAT WAS, IS NOW BEING DEVELOPED AND ADDED TRAFFIC.
THERE WAS TRAFFIC HERE IN THE PAST, ALTHOUGH NOT RECENTLY.
UM, WE HAVE REVIEWED THEIR TRAFFIC STUDY.
WE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A FEW OUTSTANDING COMMENTS THAT WE HAD A CONVERSATION YESTERDAY, UH, TO TALK THROUGH THOSE AND THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT THEY'RE GONNA TAKE A LOOK AT TO, UH, TO ADDRESS.
UM, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT, THAT THEY'RE GOING, THEY'RE COMING BACK WITH AS FAR AS THE LOCK THE BOX SIGNAGE AND PAVEMENT MARKINGS, UH, YOU KNOW, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS ARE, ARE PRETTY MUCH REALLY THE OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO US.
UM, THERE NEEDS TO BE AT SOME POINT A LARGER SCALE IMPROVEMENT AT THE INTERSECTION OF BRIDGE AND, AND EGYPT.
UM, IT'S PART OF THE TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENT PLAN.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S ON THE LIST AND WILL BE REVISITED AS WE GO THROUGH AN ACT 209 UPDATE, UH, YOU KNOW, HERE IN THE, IN THE NEXT YEAR.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'LL, WE'LL BE TAKING A LOOK AT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I GOT ANOTHER ONE THAT I'LL ASK.
IS ANY, IN NOT ALL YOUR STUDIES, BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE 45 HOMES WITH, AND I DON'T KNOW, ALICE, MAYBE YOU CAN ANSWER, SOMEBODY CAN ANSWER, YOU KNOW, I HEAR WITH THESE DEVELOPMENTS, OTHER ONES AROUND THE COUNTRY, 1.236 KIDS PER HOUSE OR SOMETHING.
UM, WHICH MAKES NO SENSE TO ME, BUT, BUT HOW ABOUT SCHOOL BUSES? ANYTHING ABOUT SCHOOL BUSES COMING IN HERE AND OUT OF HERE, UH, YOU KNOW, TWICE A DAY AND HOW MANY SCHOOL BUSES AND DOES THAT ADD ANY COMPLICATION, AND I'M SURE IT DOES, TO THE TRAFFIC PATTERN ON GETTING ONTO EGYPT ROAD? YEAH, SO, UH, WE HAVE ASKED FOR DOCUMENTATION FROM THE DEVELOPER, UH, AS IT RELATES TO DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT ON WHAT THEIR
[01:00:01]
PLAN WOULD BE.THE TYPICAL APPROACH THAT WE'VE SEEN IS THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WOULD NOT TAKE THEIR SCHOOL BUSES INTO THE DEVELOPMENT, UH, BUT WOULD, YOU KNOW, HAVE A STOP ALONG WHITAKER THAT ANY SCHOOL STUDENTS THAT ARE IN THE DEVELOPMENT WOULD, WOULD WALK OUT TO WHITAKER AND LOAD THEIR...
WE WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHAT SPRINGFIELD IS EXPECTING AND MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE PROVISIONS FOR THAT.
THAT'S A COMMENT THAT'S IN, IN THE LETTER.
AND IT LOOKS LIKE ALISON MIGHT HAVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
YEAH, I, I WILL SAY THAT IN GENERAL, WE, UM, WHEN WE DID THE DISTRICT AT BLACKROCK APPROVAL, WE DID SPEAK TO SPRINGFIELD AT THAT TIME.
UH, ONE OF THE SUPERVISORS SPECIFICALLY BROUGHT UP CONCERNS ABOUT THE SACK TOWNHOUSES AND ACCESS TO THE COMMUNITY.
UM, THEY ADVISED US THAT THEY DO HAVE AN INDEMNIFICATION AGREEMENT, THAT THEY'VE HAD, UM, VARIOUS, UH, DEVELOPMENTS IN THE TOWNSHIP LIKE RIVERCREST WHERE THERE ARE PRIVATE ROADS.
IF THEY AGREE TO SIGN IT, THEY WILL COME INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I DON'T KNOW IF THE SIZE OF THIS COMMUNITY, WHETHER THEY WOULD ACTUALLY COME IN OR NOT.
UM, WHEN WE TALKED TO THEM ABOUT THE DISTRICT AT BLACKROCK, THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DO IT, WE MAY COME IN, BUT UNTIL WE HAVE THE NUMBER OF KIDS, ET CETERA, THEY'RE SORT OF NON-COMMITTAL, SO WE CAN HAVE A FOLLOW-UP CONVERSATION WITH THEM.
MY GUESS IS WE'RE GOING TO GET THE SAME EXACT ANSWER.
UM, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAD TALKED TO THE MEADOWS ABOUT AS WELL IS IF THEY DO SORT OF WHAT I'LL SAY RELOCATE OR PUT A BUS STOP HERE EVEN ALONG WHITAKER AT ONE OF THE TWO ACCESS POINTS, ONE OF THE, THE, UM, IMPETUSES FOR THE CONNECTION TO THE MEADOWS WAS TO ALLOW CHILDREN TO WALK DOWN THROUGH THIS COMMUNITY AND GET TO A BUS STOP OVER HERE INSTEAD OF HAVING TO WALK AROUND.
THEY'D BE ON A, A PATH THAT'S NOT ALONG THE ROADWAY TO GET THERE.
SO WHAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT ULTIMATELY DECIDES TO DO, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'LL BE ABLE TO GET A GREAT ANSWER ON IT, BUT WE ARE TRYING TO THINK, BUT WE KNOW WE'RE NOT, BUT WE'RE AT LEAST TRYING TO THINK THROUGH HOW THAT WOULD ALL WORK.
THE SCHOOL DISTRICT DON'T, THAT NEVER LOOKS AT THESE THINGS AND SAYS, WHAT'S THE OPTIMUM SOLUTION? I DON'T BELIEVE WE DO THAT AT ALL.
FOR ME THOUGH, THIS GOES BACK TO OR RELATES BACK TO PARKING, RIGHT? WALKING TO A BUS STOP IS GREAT THE PAST TWO WEEKS, BUT ONCE WINTER COMES ON RAINY DAYS, THEY'RE GOING PARENTALLY PARKING IN THE BUS STOP.
THEY'RE GOING TO DRIVE THEIR KIDS TO THE BUS STOP.
WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO PARK? ON WHITAKER, BLOCKING TRAFFIC.
UM, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO FIT IN THE THREE SPOTS IN FRONT OF THE COMMUNITY.
YEAH, I, I MEAN, UNFORTUNATELY IT'S A ITEM THAT SEEMS TO COME UP ON EVERY RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, SO AND I FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, THAT PEOPLE DRIVE THEIR CHILDREN DOWN TO THE BUS STOP, OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT THAN WHEN I GREW UP, BUT, UM, BUT WE DO AT LEAST HAVE SOME OFFSITE AREA THERE WHERE SOMEONE COULD PULL, PULL IN AND TURN AROUND AND GO BACK RATHER THAN PULLING ALL THE WAY OUT ONTO THE ROADWAY AND GO AROUND.
WE AT LEAST DO HAVE THAT OPTION.
WHETHER PEOPLE WERE DOING IT OR NOT, I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THAT - BUT THEY TYPICALLY STAY.
ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO LET THE PEOPLE TALK NOW.
SO, UH, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS, AND I HOPE YOU FOLKS ALL KNOW THIS, OR IF YOU DON'T, I'M GOING TO EXPLAIN IT NOW.
WE HAVE A PROCESS FOR THE PUBLIC.
WE ALSO ASK THE FOLKS NOT TO REPEAT THE SAME QUESTION OR MAKE THE SAME COMMENT.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO COME UP AND SPEAK ABOUT PARKING, THEN, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY THAT'S A, ONE SPEAKER SPEAKS FOR EVERYBODY AND, AND THAT'S REALLY OUR, YOU KNOW, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE NUANCES TO THAT.
BUT THE POINT IS WE, WE TRY TO KEEP IT MOVING.
SO, UH, WITH THAT, JEFF WILL TAKE THE TIMER ON.
SO WHAT I NEED YOU TO DO IS COME UP WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO BE FIRST.
RAISE YOUR HAND, COME UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND YOUR ADDRESS, PLEASE.
ANDREW REED, 239 GRACE STREET AND 233 NORWOOD STREET, BOTH MY PROPERTIES.
MY CONCERN ON THIS PROJECT IS STORM WATER, PARTICULARLY TWO LOCATIONS.
SOUTHWEST CORNER WHERE IT'S ON THE WHITAKER SIDE.
THERE'S ONLY ONE STORMWATER DRAIN ON WHITAKER, CURRENTLY JUST SLIGHTLY SOUTH OF THE EXISTING ENTRANCE TO THIS PROPERTY THAT ANYTHING THAT GOES BEYOND THAT STORM DRAIN GOES DOWN WHITAKER TO THE CORNER OF GRAYSON WHITAKER AND THEN ROLLS DOWN MY DRIVEWAY TO THE CREEK THAT RUNS BETWEEN MEADOWS AND WALNUT LANE.
ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER THAT ANY RUNOFF THAT COMES OFF THAT'S NOT CAPTURED BY THE PROPOSED STORMWATER
[01:05:01]
MITIGATION ALSO RUNS INTO THE MEADOWS AND ALSO DRAINS OUT INTO MY PROPERTY BY THAT CREEK AS WELL.AND SO I CAN SEE THAT THERE'S FAIRLY DECENT STORMWATER MITIGATION BEING PROPOSED.
WHERE MY CONCERN LIES IS RUNOFF FROM THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACES FROM BOTH THE ACCESS ROAD A TO WHITAKER THAT IS NOT CAPTURED BY THE ONSITE STORMWATER.
AND WHAT THE IMPACT OF THAT NEW IMPERVIOUS SURFACE IS ON STORMWATER DRAINAGE ONTO WHITAKER ITSELF, WHERE I DON'T THINK THE EXISTING STORMWATER DRAINAGE ON WHITAKER IS ADEQUATE FOR WHAT'S ALREADY COMING DOWN WHITAKER.
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT THE EAST SIDE OF WHITAKER HEADING DOWN FROM NORWARD TOWARDS THE INTERSECTION OF GRACE AND WHITAKER AND WATCH IT COME DOWN MY DRIVEWAY AND WATCH IT COME DOWN WHITAKER AND YOU'LL SEE THAT THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT CURRENTLY IS NOT ADEQUATE FOR WHERE WE ARE.
SO I'M REALLY, REALLY CONCERNED THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE ADDITIONAL RUNOFF FROM THE IMPERVIOUS SERVICES THAT'S NOT CAPTURED ON SITE.
YOU KNOW, YEAH, THEY MAY HAVE EXCESS CAPACITY, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF MITIGATING IT OR OFFSETTING IT.
I'M MORE CONCERNED WITH ACTUALLY MITIGATING ALL THE STORMWATER RUNOFF FROM THE SITE SO THAT IT'S NOT ADDING TO THE BURDEN OF WHITAKER AND GRACE RIGHT NOW AND ROLLING DOWN EITHER THROUGH MY PROPERTY DRIVEWAY AT GRACE AND WHITAKER OR RUNNING DOWN FROM THE MEADOW SIDE, YOU KNOW, INTO THE DRAIN THERE FOR THE CREEK.
AND YOU KNOW, WE ALREADY HAVE A LOT OF OIL SHEEN THAT SHOWS UP IN THE RUNOFF COMING DOWN INTO THAT CREEK.
SO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT TRIBUTARY TO THE SCHOOL HAVING CONTAMINATED RUNOFF COME THROUGH IT FROM IMPERVIOUS SURFACES ALREADY AND THAT THIS WOULD ADD TO THAT BURN.
AND SO I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT ADDRESSED IN THIS DESIGN SO THAT WE'RE NOT HAVING IMPACTS FROM THAT, YOU KNOW, COMING DOWN TO MY PROPERTY FROM THERE.
JEN, YOU WANT TO ADDRESS ANY OF THAT OR IS THAT...
YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT, I THINK THAT YOUR COMMENT IS WELL HEARD AND UNDERSTOOD, BUT I THINK I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A WHILE UP HERE AND EVERY DEVELOPMENT THAT COMES IN HERE, THE FIRST THING PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IS THE WATER.
WHERE'S THE WATER ALL GO? AND, AND, AND NOBODY EVER COMES UP AND SAYS, WELL MAYBE IT'S GOING TO BE BETTER.
YOU, JEN'S TEAM AND THEIR ENGINEERS ARE DONE, MAYBE IT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO BE BETTER.
NOBODY EVER HAS THAT CONSIDERATION.
IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE WORSE.
SO I THINK THAT JEN AND HER TEAM AND, AND THE FOLKS, THE DEVELOPER, I THINK WE GOT TO GET A CHANCE TO DO THEIR JOB AND, AND YOU KNOW, WE TRUST THAT THEY WILL DO THEIR JOB.
SO IF I WERE YOU, I WOULD BE LOOKING AT IT.
I THINK MAYBE IT COULD BE BETTER.
WELL AS LONG AS THERE'S SOME SORT OF INDEMNIFICATION IF IT'S NOT BETTER.
WELL, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.
IT'S ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THAT COMPANY BACK ABOUT THAT.
ALISON MADE A LOT OF NOTES SO I'M SURE THEY'LL ADDRESS IT.
I'M DIANE CANNEY AT 118 NORWOOD STREET AND I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE TRAFFIC ONCE AGAIN BECAUSE IT IS HORRIFIC TRYING TO GET OUT.
I DON'T THINK THOSE LITTLE BOXES WILL DO A DARN THING.
IT'S BY THE GRACE OF GOD THAT SOME KIND PERSON LETS YOU OUT MANY TIMES IN THE DAY.
IT'S NOT JUST DURING RUSH HOUR.
SO, UH, WE'RE ALREADY GETTING PARKING FROM THE DELI.
WE'RE GETTING PARKING FROM THE ORIGINAL MONTCLAIR SCHOOL THAT HAS APARTMENTS THERE, PARKING THEIR CARS ON THE SIDE.
YOU TALKED ABOUT A BAR MITZVAH.
WHAT ABOUT HANUKKAH, CHRISTMAS, BIRTHDAYS? THE, AND I DO BELIEVE THERE WERE PARKING SPACES AT ONE OF THE OTHER MEETINGS I WAS AT THAT MAY HAVE BEEN REMOVED, WHICH IS NOT FAIR IN MY OPINION.
UM, IF IT'S GOING TO BE FOUR BEDROOMS, SOMETIMES YOU HAVE ELDERLY COUPLES LIVING WITH THE YOUNG NOW, SO THERE COULD POTENTIALLY BE FOUR CARS, ALSO TEENAGERS IN, IN ONE UNIT.
THAT'S OVER 80 CARS IN THAT LITTLE BOXED AREA OF WHITAKER AND NORWOOD AND GRACE.
LIKE I SAID, TINY LITTLE STREETS WITH NO SIDEWALKS.
WHAT ABOUT THE DELIVERY SERVICES LIKE AMAZON OR DOORDASH? YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE TRAFFIC COMING IN AND OUT, DIFFERENT PLACES DISRUPTING THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I'VE BEEN THERE WHEN THE, FOR, SINCE 1983.
[01:10:01]
THE BUILDING THAT WAS USED FOR THE CPA AND OTHERS.THE TRAFFIC, TRAFFIC WAS NOT AS BAD WITH THOSE THERE.
I WAS NOT, THE SCHOOL WAS ALREADY CLOSED BY THE TIME I MOVED IN, BUT THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE.
MAYBE TAKE AWAY SOME OF, I HATE TO SAY SOME OF THE TOWNHOUSES.
I'M SORRY, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO CHARGE $800,000, YOU'RE GOING TO BE MAKING A GOOD DEAL OF MONEY.
TAKE AWAY SOME OF THE TOWNHOUSES SO WE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH TRAFFIC AND MAYBE PUT IN SOME EXTRA PARKING SPACES BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT WILL HAVE PARTIES AND HOLIDAYS AND THANKSGIVING AND WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO PARK? OUR STREETS ARE BLOCKED NOW.
IF YOU COME TO NORWOOD, YOU WILL SEE AT LEAST TWO OR CARS OR MORE FROM THE ORIGINAL MONTCLAIR SCHOOL, THOSE APARTMENTS, AND YOU WILL SEE THE NEIGHBORS NOW THAT HAVE CHILDREN PARKING ON OUR STREET WITHOUT SIDEWALKS.
YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT LESS MOVEMENT IN THERE.
HOW ABOUT OUR STREETS? WE DON'T HAVE HARDLY ANY MOVEMENT NOW.
I PROBABLY, I HAVE A TON OF WRITING, BUT MY TIME'S JUST ABOUT UP.
I JUST WISH YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND HOW DIRE IT IS GETTING EITHER OUT OF EGYPT ROAD OR OUT ONTO BRIDGE STREET OR 29.
YOU TAKE YOUR LIFE AT YOUR OWN HANDS EVEN WITH THE TRAFFIC LIGHT THERE.
AND I, I WISH PEOPLE LIVED THERE WOULD BE ON THE BOARD TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.
WHO'S NEXT? SYDNEY 135 WHITAKER DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET.
I'M THE TREE LADY WHO WANTED TO SAVE THE TREES AND YOU'RE NOT SAVING THE TREES, YOU'RE CUTTING DOWN TWO OF THEM SO YOU CAN PUT YOUR DRIVEWAY THERE.
AND THE TREES WERE THERE, WE WANTED TO SAVE THE TREES AND THERE WAS PARKING THERE.
THERE WAS LIKE 25 SPOTS OF PARKING AND NOW WE HAVE TREES AND NO PARKING.
AND THE TREES WOULD BE THERE TO, TO MAKE IT LOOK NICE AND NOW WE'RE CUTTING DOWN TREE, TWO TREES ANYWAY.
SO I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT DOES THE PURPOSE.
THE PARKING IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.
AND RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE ON STREET PARKING AND THE ON STREET PARKING IS ON MY SIDE OF THE STREET.
AND I FEEL THAT WITH 45 TOWNHOUSES AND THERE'S NO PARKING THERE, I'M GOING TO HAVE LOTS OF STRANGE CARS PARKING ON MY SIDE OF THE STREET AND MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE IF THERE'S GOING TO BE ON STREET PARKING FROM THEM, PUT THEM ON THEIR SIDE OF THE STREET.
TO ME OPEN SPACE IS OPEN SPACE AND THERE'S THREE SOME ACRES, BUT IT'S NOT CONNECTED ALL.
IT'S SOME OF THE OPEN SPACE IS THE DRAINAGE THINGS WHICH ARE FENCED IN OR IT'S THE PLAYGROUND WHICH IS FENCED IN OR IT'S A SMALL GRASSY AREA WHICH IS FENCED IN.
AND THESE THINGS THAT ARE FENCED INTO ME ARE NOT OPEN SPACE.
SO I THINK WE'RE NOT LIVING UP TO THE OPEN SPACE PART OF IT.
THE TRAFFIC STUDY, YOU DO IT FOR ONE DAY.
HOW CAN YOU MAKE ANY KIND OF LOGICAL INFERENCE FROM ONE DAY'S WORTH OF TRAFFIC STUDY? AND THAT $74,000 FEE, HOW'S THAT GOING TO HELP ME WITH THE TRAFFIC? IT GOES TO SOMEBODY SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT FEE IS FOR.
WHAT'S THAT MONEY HELP ANY OF US THAT LIVE IN THAT AREA FOR THAT TRAFFIC FEE? PUBLIC ORDER.
135 WHITAKER, I'M THE LAST HOUSE ON THE PUBLIC BORDERLINE THAT COMES UP WHITAKER.
I HAVE VERY, VERY, VERY LOW PRESSURE NOW.
HOPEFULLY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE THE PUBLIC ORDER OFF OF WHITAKER AND HOPEFULLY THE PUBLIC ORDER WILL COME OFF OF EGYPT WHICH THEY HAVE MORE PRESSURE BECAUSE IF THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT TAKING IT OFF OF WHITAKER, NOBODY'S GOING TO HAVE PRESSURE.
UM, WHERE, HOW MUCH? 53 SECONDS.
UM, THE WAIVERS, WAY TOO MANY WAIVERS AND SPECIMEN TREES KEEP THE SPECIMEN TREES AND GREEN SPACE TO ME IS NOT A TWO FOOT PATCH OF GRASS.
THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO PUT IS GREEN SPACE.
THERE WAS SHRUBBERY SUPPOSED TO BE UP THERE BUT NOW IT'S JUST GOING TO BE A LITTLE TWO FOOT PATH OF GRASS.
THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF CONCERNS AND I THINK ALL OF THESE CONCERNS ARE BECAUSE OF 45 TOWNHOUSES.
IF YOU WOULD CUT SOME OF THOSE NUMBER OF TOWNHOUSES DOWN, SOME OF THESE WAIVERS COULD BE ADDRESSED IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE SO MUCH PROBLEMS AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE SO MUCH TRAFFIC, BUT YOU WANT TO HAVE 45 TOWNHOUSES SO YOU CAN MAKE THE MONEY YOU WANT TO MAKE AND I THINK IF WE CUT THE NUMBER DOWN, A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS WOULD GO AWAY.
[01:15:05]
AND I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.WHO ARE YOU TALKING WITH IN MEADOWS? THERE'S NO MEADOWS.
WHO ARE YOU TALKING WITH? YOU SAID YOU DISCUSSED SOMETHING WITH THE MEADOWS? THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY WE HAD A MEETING WITH HOA BOARD MEMBERS OR CONDO BOARD MEMBERS.
SO RANDOM ANY OF US WHO WERE THERE.
SO THERE WAS A SEPARATE NEIGHBOR MEETING THAT I DID NOT ATTEND THAT WAS - THERE'S NO OFFICIAL MEADOWS WELL WHICH YOU CAN UNDERSTAND.
NOW WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WALKING OVER TO THE MEADOWS, WHERE ARE YOU WALKING? WHERE ARE YOU CONNECTING TO THE MEADOWS? THAT WE HAVE A CONCEPTUAL LOCATION.
OH YEAH BUT THERE'S, THERE'S NO BREAKS WALK.
THIS IS A, WE HAVE A, IT'S A CONDOMINIUM COMMUNITY.
THERE'S NOTHING ALONG THERE WE CAN KIND OF JUST CUT INTO THE MEADOWS.
THERE'S TWO CARPORTS ALONG, THE REST OF THE WAY THERE'S A WHOLE SERIES OF PARKING SPACES.
SO IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE SOMEBODY'S ACTUALLY WALKED OVER THERE AND UNDERSTOOD WHAT'S THERE.
SO JUST, YOU KNOW, FYI, I MEAN, AND THEN THE BUFFERS ALONGSIDE IT, IT LOOKS LIKE SOME OF THE WAIVERS ARE REDUCING THE SIZES OF THE BUFFERS THAT WOULD BE NEXT TO THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, WHICH IS CONCERNED.
WE LIKE BETTER BUFFERS AS MUCH AS WE CAN, YOU KNOW, AND WE'LL DO THE BEST WE CAN WITH IT.
I DON'T, I KNOW YOU'RE NOT GOING TO REDUCE THE SIZE OF THE LOTS.
BUT UM, THE TRAFFIC WILL BE AN ISSUE.
IT WAS THE, THE BUILDING, THE UH, OFFICE BUILDING HAS BAS - ESSENTIALLY BEEN CLOSE TO EMPTY SINCE 2020.
SO IT HASN'T BEEN A LOT OF TRA - GENERALLY A LOT OF TRAFFIC.
THERE'S NEVER BEEN A LOT OF CARS THERE.
I, I CAN SEE INTO THE PARKING LOT, THE SECOND FLOOR DURING THE WINTER.
SO WE'D LIKE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE MORE CLARITY WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO TRY TO CONNECT.
THERE'S NO REAL WAY YOU CAN CONNECT INTO THE MEADOWS OTHER THAN DRIVING UP NORWOOD AND I FEEL COMFY UP NORWOOD.
I AT LEAST HAVE MY OWN PARKING SPACE BECAUSE I'M IN THE MEADOWS, SO IT'S NOT GONNA BE EASY.
HI, I'M KATHLEEN REED, 239 GRACE STREET AND 233 NORWOOD.
JUST WANTED TO CONFIRM ON THE BOXES TO SAY DO NOT BLOCK THE INTERSECTION, WOULD THERE ALSO BE ONE ON BRIDGE AT GRACE BECAUSE WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM AT GRACE STREET WHERE IT GETS BLOCKED AND YOU CANNOT, YOU CAN'T EVEN MAKE A RIGHT TURN, LET ALONE A LEFT.
SO THERE WOULD NEED TO BE, IF THAT IS A MITIGATION, THERE WOULD ALSO NEED TO BE ONE AT GRACE STREET AND ON BRIDGE.
UM, AND THEN IN TERMS OF THE SCHOOL BUSES, CURRENTLY THEY STOP AT NORWOOD AND, AND CURRENTLY LIKE AROUND 7:00 AM AND THEN AGAIN AT NOON WE SEE THEM.
UM, BUT YOU KNOW, I WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD CHANGE.
UM, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE SEE CURRENTLY.
UM, I DON'T NEED TO REHASH ALL THE TRAFFIC STUFF, JUST THAT DON'T, DON'T IGNORE GRACE STREET BECAUSE WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM AS YOU HAVE ON NORWOOD AND, UM, EGYPT, SO.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THOSE.
UM, YOU'RE NOT LOOKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION RIGHT NOW.
SO WE'RE JUST LOOKING FOR SOME FEEDBACK.
I'LL GO FIRST AND I'LL ASK EVERYBODY ON THE BOARD TO GIVE THEIR FEEDBACK.
UM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE LOOKING FOR RECOMMENDATION, I'D HAVE A HARD TIME.
I THINK THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PARKING.
I DON'T THINK YOU'RE ALLOWED PARKING.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I, I, I JUST, YOU KNOW, AND I USE BAR MITZVAH JUST AS A THING.
I MEAN, I, I UNDERSTAND IT'S EVERY HOLIDAY.
IT'S EVERY KIND OF KID'S BIRTHDAY.
WHERE ARE, IF THEY WANT TO HAVE A PARTY, WHERE ARE PEOPLE GOING TO PARK? I JUST DON'T SEE IT.
AND WE ALL KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE IN ONE OF THESE COMMUNITIES.
HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY USE THEIR GARAGES? IT'S USUALLY FULL OF STUFF, RIGHT? THAT'S IT.
JEFF KNOWS I HAVE A HARD TIME MEMORY WITH MY MEMORY SOMETIMES.
WHO ELSE? WHO'S NEXT? I'LL GO.
I, I REALLY DO THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE PARKING.
I, I'M ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE NARROWED ROADWAY.
GRANTED THERE'S NO PARKING SIGNS, BUT WE ALL KNOW CERTAIN PEOPLE IGNORE THOSE SIGNS, SO THE SAFETY ISSUE, IF A FIRE TRUCK NEEDS TO GET IN THERE, UM, THAT CONCERNS ME AS WELL, ESPECIALLY, UM, IF THERE'S NOT MORE PARKING.
I, I'LL ECHO, UH, THE COMMENTS THAT ARE MADE.
UM, YOU KNOW, I GUESS WHERE I, I, I COME OUT
[01:20:01]
IS, UH, AGAIN, YOU'RE TRYING TO GET 45 UNITS HERE.YOU HAVE, YOU'RE TRYING TO HIT SOME CERTAIN TARGETS, BUT I WONDER IF ACCOMMODATING SOME OF THE, THE ISSUES THAT YOU'RE HEARING ABOUT, LIKE ADDITIONAL PARKING AND MAKING THE STREETS COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE AS IT IS, YOU STILL COULDN'T COME UP WITH A VIABLE PLAN, UH, THAT WOULD WORK.
UH, I, I AGREE THAT, THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, PARKING IS GONNA BE A PROBLEM.
UH, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY KNOWS PEOPLE PARK ON THE STREET AND WITH NARROW STREETS IT'S GONNA EVEN BE, YOU KNOW, EXACERBATED.
SO I'D LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, TO MAYBE SEE SOME RESPONSE TO THAT.
UM, AND, UH, YEAH, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, UH, CAN, CAN YOU LOSE A COUPLE OF UNITS AND STILL MAKE IT WORK AND, AND, YOU KNOW, LOOSEN THIS PLAN UP A LITTLE BIT.
UH, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE'D BE THE NEED FOR LESS WAIVERS, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, AND, AND MAYBE IT'S A BETTER, IT CAN COME UP WITH A BETTER DESIGN.
UH, SO I, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY WE CAN, WE CAN SEE SOME RESPONSE, UH, TO THAT.
JOE? I AGREE WITH WHAT'S BEEN SAID AND ALSO WE'VE MADE NUMBERS OF COMMENTS THROUGHOUT ALL THE PRESENTATIONS.
AND I THINK YOU'VE TAKEN NUMEROUS NUMBERS OF NOTES AND I THINK, UH, WITH EVERYTHING THROUGH THAT PRESENTATION PROCESS AND WHAT'S BEEN SAID HERE, I AGREE, YOU KNOW, THERE NEEDS, THERE'S STILL WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN MY OPINION.
ROBERT? JUST A REPEAT OF EVERYTHING THAT EVERYBODY ELSE HAS SAID, SO NOTHING GOING ON.
WELL, I THINK THE POINT IS THAT YOU'RE MAKING AND EVERYBODY MADE IS WE HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS ABOUT THE PARKING AND, AND, YOU KNOW, I'M ALWAYS CONFIDENT IN THE WATER REMEDIATION.
I, I'M ALWAYS CONFIDENT THAT JEN KNOWS WHAT THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THE TRAFFIC IS WHAT IT IS.
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT BUILT FOR WHAT KIND OF TRAFFIC IS GOING OUT ONTO EITHER EGYPT OR 29 OR BRIDGE STREET.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, ACT 209, WHICH WE'LL BE WORKING ON LATER THIS YEAR OR NEXT YEAR, NEXT YEAR, UH, MAYBE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO, BUT CERTAINLY BRIAN WILL BE THERE TO GUIDE US.
UM, BUT THAT'S NOT GONNA CHANGE NEXT WEEK OR NEXT MONTH OR NEXT YEAR.
UH, SO, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GONNA BE A PROBLEM, FOLKS.
IT'S, IT'S GOING TO BE AN ISSUE.
IT'S, IT'S, AND I'M SORRY FOR THAT AND I'M, I FEEL FOR YOU BECAUSE I TRAVEL THAT WAY DOWN A LOT AND I SEE CARS TRYING TO GET OUT OF THERE AND IT, IT, IT JUST IS A NIGHTMARE.
AND, UH, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE DOING A LITTLE BIT OF CONSTRUCTION THERE ON 29 NOW LIKE EVERYTHING BACKED UP ALL THE WAY INTO PHOENIXVILLE.
AND, UM, IT, YEAH, IT'S JUST A NIGHTMARE AND I FEEL FOR YOU, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT, THAT'S NOT GONNA CHANGE IN THE NEXT, UH, NEXT COUPLE MONTHS.
SO, UH, BUT CERTAINLY THE PARKING I THINK IS SOMETHING YOU GOTTA LOOK AT.
YOU GOT, YOU JUST GOT TO, I MEAN, YOU JUST GOT TO.
NEXT ONE ON OUR AGENDA, UH, IS, UH, SPARKLES CAR WASH.
THANKS FOR SITTING THROUGH THAT FOLKS.
I BET YOU DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS GONNA TAKE AN HOUR AND A HALF, SO THANK YOU FOR THAT PATIENCE AND, UH- UH, GOOD EVENING.
BERNADETTE HERNAN FROM HAMBURG RUBIN HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT.
WE ALSO HAVE ADAM HENDRICKS FROM SPOTLESS, UH, THE CAR WASH THAT IS BEING PROPOSED.
KESTRA KELLY FROM BL COMPANIES, WHO'S THE CIVIL ENGINEER, AND GUY DEMARTINO FROM TRAFFIC PLANNING AND DESIGN, WHO'S THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER.
UM, WE WERE HERE BACK IN AUGUST BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
I BELIEVE THERE WASN'T A QUORUM AT THAT TIME.
AND WE HAD BEEN IN FRONT OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD BACK IN AUGUST OF, UM, 2025 TO RECEIVE, RECEIVE ZONING HEARING BOARD RELIEF.
AND AT THAT, AFTER THAT, WE, UH, PROCEEDED WITH LAND DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND WE DID GO OVER THE REVIEW LETTERS FROM GILMORE AND THE WAIVERS AT THE LAST MEETING.
AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST ITEMS THAT HAD COME UP WAS WHERE WERE WE WITH PENNDOT? AND YOU'LL SEE IN YOUR PACKAGE THAT YOU GOT A LETTER FROM PENNDOT AND GUY IS GONNA TALK - QUITE A FEW ISSUES.
I'M SORRY? WITH QUITE A FEW COMMENTS.
QUITE A FEW - COMMENTS FROM PNDOT.
AND GUY'S GONNA ADDRESS THEM AND ALSO TALK ABOUT THE QUICK CURB ALTERNATIVE, UM, THAT WE BELIEVE WILL BE ACCEPTABLE TO PENNDOT.
SO I, I WANTED TO START THERE, IF THAT'S OKAY WITH EVERYONE
[01:25:01]
WITH, WITH PENNDOT, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S THE BIGGEST ISSUE.SO I'LL HAVE GUY COME UP AND EXPLAIN IT.
GUY DEMARTINO WITH TPD AS WELL, GREG'S COLLEAGUE.
UM, SO AS, AS WAS DISCUSSED, WE WERE HERE BEFORE YOU IN AUGUST.
UM, AT THAT TIME, WE HAD NOT YET SUBMITTED, WE HAD SUBMITTED THE TRAFFIC STUDY TO PENNDOT.
WE HAD NOT YET SUBMITTED THE HOP, THE DESIGN PLANS TO PENNDOT.
SINCE THAT TIME, WE DID IN EARLY SEPTEMBER, WE SUBMITTED THE HOP PLANS TO PENNDOT.
UM, SUBSEQUENTLY, WE RECEIVED A REVIEW FROM YOUR CONSULTANT, GILMORE, UM, LATE SEPTEMBER AND REGARDING THOSE PLANS.
AND WE ALSO MORE RECENTLY RECEIVED PENNDOT'S REVIEW LETTER, UM, WHICH YOU COMMENTED ON, SO THERE'S A NUMBER OF COMMENTS.
UM, THERE IS THAT ONE NOTABLE COMMENT RELATED TO, UM, THE ACCESS AND QUICK CURB.
UM, I GUESS BEFORE I GET INTO THAT, I WILL SAY, UM, FROM, FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, THE, THE LEVEL OF COMMENTS WE RECEIVED FROM PENNDOT, UH, ARE FAIRLY STANDARD GIVEN IT'S THE FIRST ROUND OF REVIEW.
UM, TYPICALLY THESE, THESE SORT OF MATTERS TAKE THREE SUBMISSIONS, UM, BEFORE WE WILL OBTAIN AN HOP APPROVAL.
SO THIS IS A FAIRLY TYPICAL TYPE OF LEVEL OF REVIEW THAT WE RECEIVED FROM PENNDOT AND WE'LL, WE'LL WORK WITH PENNDOT AND ADDRESS THE COMMENTS.
AND CERTAINLY TOWNSHIP WILL BE COPIED ON ALL SUBMISSIONS AND GIVEN THE ABILITY TO COMMENT AS WELL.
UM, JUMPING BACK TO, TO THE ACCESS AND, UM, THE, THE MAIN NOTABLE COMMENT, ORIGINALLY PENNDOT, AS WE WERE WORKING THROUGH THE TRAFFIC STUDY PROCESS, INDICATED, WHICH IS, IS TYPICAL, UM, OF THEM, THEY, THEY RECOGNIZE WE'RE PROVIDING A PORK CHOP ISLAND ON, AT THE DRIVEWAY, UM, TO RESTRICT LEFT, LEFT TURNS IN AND LEFT TURNS OUT.
AND THEIR POSITION AT THAT TIME WAS, "WE UNDERSTAND YOUR DESIGN.
UM, HOWEVER, IN THE EVENT THAT THERE'S AN, AN ISSUE OR, UM, ILLEGAL MOVEMENTS BEING MADE, THEY WANTED THE ABILITY TO RECTIFY THAT AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE." UM, SUBSEQUENTLY, WE SUBMITTED OUR DESIGN, WHICH DID HAVE THAT PORK CHOP ISLAND.
UM, AS I MENTIONED, WE LATER RECEIVED YOUR GILMORE'S REVIEW IN LATE SEPTEMBER, REALLY JUST STATING THEY PREFER TO HAVE THAT, UM, RESTRICTION BEEFED UP, UH, PROVIDE SOME SORT OF, UM, MORE ADDITIONAL RESTRICTION.
PENNDOT, GILMORE'S REVIEW WAS ISSUED, I'LL SAY MID-REVIEW CYCLE FROM WHEN PENNDOT WAS ISSUING THEIR REVIEW.
SO PENNDOT TOOK GILMORE'S REVIEW AND, AND KIND OF REALLY JUST WANTS COLLABORATION BETWEEN ALL PARTIES AND MAKING SURE WE'RE ALL DOING WHAT, WHAT THE TOWNSHIP WANTS.
UM, SUBSEQUENTLY, MORE RECENTLY ON MONDAY, HAD A CALL WITH, WITH BRIAN.
WE TALKED THROUGH IT, UM, AND WHAT YOU CAN SEE ON THE SCREEN, WE ARE, UH, WILLING TO DO AND PROVIDE.
UM, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO SEE.
UM, IT'S THE SITE PLAN OVERLAID ON ESSENTIALLY AN AERIAL OF, OF RIDGE PIKE IN THIS AREA, UM, WITH OBVIOUSLY THE SITE VIEW ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE SITE, UH, NORTH SIDE OF THE PLAN.
AND THEN ON THE BOTTOM, BOTTOM LEFT CORNER, YOU CAN SEE IT'S, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A PACKET IN FRONT OF YOU ALSO, BUT IT'S THE WAWA DRIVEWAY.
SO THE CHALLENGE WITH PROVIDING A MEDIAN IN THAT AREA ON RIDGE PIKE, IT'S OBVIOUSLY NARROW, YOU CAN'T PROVIDE A, A TYPICAL CONCRETE MEDIAN FULL WIDTH JUST BECAUSE THERE IS NOT THAT WIDTH THERE TO DO THAT.
UM, SO WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS WHAT'S CALLED QUICK CURVE.
UM, YOU CAN SEE IN THE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PLAN IS, UH, WHERE IT'S BEEN IMPLEMENTED.
UM, IT REALLY JUST GOES ON THE EXISTING DOUBLE YELLOW LINE, UM, AND IT'S CALLED QUICK CURVE.
PENNDOT HAS ACCEPTED THAT, UM, AND THAT WOULD BE PROPOSED IN THE AREA WHERE THE RED LINE IS SHOWN ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE IMAGE.
UM, SO THAT WOULD FURTHER RESTRICT LEFTS IN AND LEFTS OUT OF THE SITE.
UM, WE WERE SENSITIVE TO NOT HAVE THAT RESTRICT THE EXISTING WAWA DRIVEWAY, SO THAT'S WHY IT'S POSITIONED IN THAT AREA.
UM, SO WE BELIEVE THAT'S, THAT WOULD ADDRESS THE COMMENT.
WE WILL WORK TOWARDS PROVIDING THAT.
UM, WE'LL PROVIDE THAT ON THE, THE NEXT SUBMISSION TO PENNDOT, AND I BELIEVE THAT WOULD SATISFY, UM, GILMORE'S COMMENT AS WELL.
HOW, HOW WOULD THIS AFFECT, YOU KNOW, EMERGENCY ACCESS IN ANY WAY? UM, I, I DO NOT BELIEVE IT WOULD.
I MEAN, EMERGENCY ACCESS HAS, HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY.
THEY, THEY PUT ON THEIR LIGHTS AND TRAFFIC HAS TO YIELD TO THEM.
UM, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THAT WAS NOT PROVIDED.
IF I'M CORRECT, A VEHICLE COULD ACTUALLY DRIVE OVER THESE, CORRECT? THEY WOULD - THEY, THEY, THEY COULD.
THEY COULD IN AN EMERGENCY, YES.
SO A FIRE TRUCK OR SOMEBODY, AN AMBULANCE COULD JUST DRIVE, DRIVE OVER THEM, RIGHT? THEY COULD.
IT WOULDN'T, IT WOULD BE PLEASANT, BUT THEY COULD, YES.
AND ESPECIALLY IF FIRE VEHICLE WITH THE HIGH CLEARANCE,
[01:30:01]
YOU KNOW, IF THEY FELT THEY NEEDED TO, THEY'D TAKE IT.BUT IT'S DESIGNED, THEIR SITE IS DESIGNED IN SUCH A WAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN ACCOMMODATE TRUCK TURNING, MAKING THE RIGHT IN AND THE RIGHT OUT, EVEN WITH THAT PORK CHOP, EVEN WITH THE PORK CHOP IN PLACE.
DOES WAWA ALLOW LEFT IN AND LEFT OUT? THEY DO.
HOW COME? HOW THEY GET THAT AND THESE GUYS DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THEM? AND MAYBE THAT'S, I KNOW.
OKAY, BUT I MEAN JUST FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE, EITHER ONE OF YOU, JUST FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE, WHY ARE THEY ALLOWED TO DO LEFT IN, LEFT OUT? AND SO YOU GUYS RUN ACROSS THE STREET OR NOT? SO PART OF IT HAS TO DO WITH THE LEFT TURN LANE.
OKAY, THE LEFT TURN LANE IS ACTUALLY FOR THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL.
HOWEVER, IT IS A SPACE THAT'S AVAILABLE FOR THE, THE WAWA FOLKS THAT ARE TURNING LEFT IN TO UTILIZE.
SO THEY'RE OUT OF THE MAIN RIDGE PIKE WESTBOUND TRAFFIC STREAM.
WHEREAS BECAUSE THAT'S THERE, THERE'S NO PLACE FOR A LEFT TURN LANE FOR THE SPOTLESS CAR WASH TO BE ABLE TO, TO PUT DOWN THE ROAD IT'S A TWO WAY LEFT TURN LANE IN OTHER SPOTS, WHICH I'M SURE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE DESIRABLE FOR SPOTLESS.
UH, BUT THAT'S NOT THE CONDITION THERE BECAUSE THAT LEFT TURN LANE IS FOR THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL.
I DON'T, I MEAN I THINK IT'S GOOD, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE FAIR TO ME.
YO GUYS CAN'T MAKE A LEFT IN AND LEFT OUT.
YOU GOT TO PUT UP A PORK CHOP AND A ROAST BEEF.
I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING BRIAN SAID ABOUT THE, THE LEFT IN.
UM, IT'S JUST REALLY ALSO TO TOUCH ON THE LEFT OUT, ALSO THE WAWA'S ON THEIR TURNING.
IF THERE WAS QUEUING ON RIDGE PIKE APPROACHING THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL ON TOWNSEND LAND ROAD, THEY'RE TURNING, I'LL SAY INTO A QUEUE, UH, WHICH IS MORE, MORE WELL RECEIVED THAN IF YOU WERE TURNING LEFT OUT OF OUR SITE.
BUT THE QUEUE IS NOT MUCH FURTHER DOWN TO GET INTO THE MALL.
IT'S NOT THAT MUCH FURTHER DOWN.
RIGHT, BUT IT'S MORE WELL RECEIVED OF TURNING INTO A QUEUE VERSUS TURNING THROUGH A QUEUE.
UM, IF YOU WERE TURNING OUT OF OUR SITE AND YOU KIND OF SEE AROUND STACKED VEHICLES INTO THE GAPS.
I'M NOT GOING TO ARGUE A POINT FOR YOU.
I'M JUST SAYING THAT YOU GUYS CAN SAY, WELL HOW COME THEY CAN DO IT? WE CAN'T.
I GOT ASKED THAT QUESTION EVERY DAY BY MY CLIENTS.
SO WHAT ELSE? SO YOU'VE GOT TO PUT A PORK SHOP IN AND THAT'S GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
PORK SHOP PLUS THE, THE DELINEATORS TO QUICKER.
AND PENNDOT YOU THINK IS OKAY WITH THAT? I MEAN JUST FROM YOUR CONVERSATIONS.
WE'VE IMPLEMENTED IN OTHER PLACES.
THE, THE EXAMPLE SHOWN ON THE SCREEN ON THE RIGHT IS ON A PENNDOT STATE ROAD.
AFTER YOU INSTALL IT, PENNDOT MAINTAINS IT? TYPICALLY IT WOULD BE A, A CONDITION OF OUR, OUR PERMIT.
UM, AND THAT'S SOMETHING, THE DETAILS OF THAT WE, WE WORK THROUGH WITH PENNDOT AND, AND THE TOWNSHIP ON THAT MATTER.
UM, BUT IN PAST EXPERIENCE IT'S TYPICALLY, UM, UH, THE, THE APPLICANT WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.
THAT'S BEEN OUR PAST EXPERIENCE, BUT WE'LL HAVE, WE'LL HAVE TO COORDINATE WITH PENNDOT AND THE TOWNSHIP ON THAT MATTER.
SO WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE BRIAN? ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD OR COMMENT OR ANYTHING FOR THE COMMITTEE THAT WOULD HELP US UNDERSTAND THIS? NO, I MEAN I THINK, UH, THE BIGGEST THING THAT HELD US UP IN AUGUST WAS THE, THE UNKNOWN OF, OF WHERE PENNDOT WAS GOING TO LAND, WHAT THEIR REACTION TO THE PLAN WAS BECAUSE THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY JUST HADN'T SEEN IT YET.
NOW THAT YOU'VE GOT, UH, YOU KNOW, A FIRST SUBMISSION INTO PENNDOT, UM, UH, I AGREE WITH, WITH KAI'S ASSESSMENT.
I MEAN, THESE ARE PRETTY STANDARD COMMENTS.
UH, I THINK THAT THE TROUBLES OR LOOKS LIKE IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN'T BE OVERCOME THROUGH THE NORMAL, NORMAL PROCESS.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE STILL HAVE OUTSTANDING COMMENTS IN, IN OUR LETTER, BUT AGAIN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE MINOR IN NATURE AND THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE DEEP PLAN DETAIL THINGS.
SO FROM A TRAFFIC STANDPOINT, WE'RE, WE'RE READY TO GO.
THAT'S GOOD, GOOD INFO, RIGHT? YEAH, BECAUSE WHEN YOU FIRST READ, LOOK AT THIS LETTER, IT'S LIKE, OH MY GOD, THEY'RE ALL OVER.
BUT STUFF YOU GUYS PROBABLY SEE ALL THE TIME AND JUST SAY THAT'S STANDARD ISSUE STATEMENT WE CAN DEAL WITH, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.
FOR US NOVICES, WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS THINKING, OH MY GOD PUT YOU GUYS THROUGH THE ROOF, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE ENOUGH.
THE SIX PAGE PENNDOT INITIAL REVIEW LETTER, HE'S FEELING PRETTY GOOD.
TO US, IT LOOKS A LOT, BUT WE DON'T KNOW.
SO THAT'S GOOD TO HEAR THAT YOU GUYS,
[01:35:01]
BECAUSE YEAH, THAT'S YOUR BUSINESS MATTER.HOWEVER YOU WANT TO GET IN AND OUT OF IT'S UP TO YOU.
SO WHAT ELSE WE, WHAT ELSE? YOU WANT TO COMMENT? ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO SAY? OR DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS GENTLEMAN? YEAH, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
I THINK WE'RE GOOD IF YOU'RE GOOD.
THAT WAS THE BIGGEST, UH, POINT FROM THE AUGUST MEETING.
I'M NOT SURE IF YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH, UH, THE WAIVER LETTER OR THE REVIEW LETTERS.
NO, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO DO THAT.
WE HADN'T RECEIVED, UH, IN AUGUST WE HAD RECEIVED RIGHT BEFORE THAT, THAT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, WE HAD RECEIVED A GILMORE REVIEW LETTER.
UH, KESTRA IS READY TO RESPOND TO THAT, BUT AT THIS POINT, UM, I THINK WE'RE LOOKING FOR A PRELIMINARY FINAL LAND DEVELOPMENT RECOMMENDATION TO GO IN FRONT OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
WELL, TO YOUR POINT, WHAT I JUST HEARD BRIAN SAY WAS AS A, AS FAR AS TRAFFIC IS CONCERNED, WE'RE READY TO GO.
THERE, THERE ARE CLEANUP ISSUES.
SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, UM, IT MIGHT BE A CONSIDERATION FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAN RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL GIVEN THAT A FINAL PLAN NEEDS TO HAVE ALL OF THE DETAILS DOTTED I WOULD AGREE WITH MAKE THE PROPOSAL TO VOTE, THAT WILL BE PART OF IT THAT ALL THAT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED.
I THINK WHAT, I THINK WHAT, I THINK WE'RE ALL GONNA, WE'RE NOT GONNA GO PRELIMINARY AND FINAL.
WE'RE JUST GONNA, PRELIMINARY.
WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT PRELIMINARY.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE - WE WERE TOLD THIS IS PRELIMINARY.
SO ARE YOU CHANGING THAT OR WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR - I ACTUALLY THOUGH IT WAS ON THE AGENDA AS FINAL.
IT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA AS ANYTHING.
I'M SORRY? IT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA AS ANYTHING.
THE AGENDA SAYS PLD ASKING FOR FINAL LAND DEVELOPMENT.
SO THE APPLICATION IS FOR PRELIMINARY, BUT THEY'RE ASKING FOR FINAL.
A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DOING, UM, IT'S UP TO THE BOARD AND IT'S UP TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION OR MAKE THAT APPROVAL.
AGAIN, THERE'S STILL PLANNED CLEANUP THAT THEY HAVE TO DO.
IT IS ADMINISTRATIVE IN NATURE.
THERE'S NOTHING ON THE PLAN THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE.
YOU COULD MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION IF YOU CHOSE TO DO PRELIMINARY FINAL BASED ON THE FACT THAT JEN AND BRIAN WILL GET IT CLEANED UP BEFORE IT GOES TO THE BOARD.
SO, SO WHAT JEFF IS SAYING IS, I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS TO THE BOARD.
DO WE WANT TO DO PRELIMINARY AND FINAL IN THIS ONE OR YOU JUST WANT TO STICK TO PRELIMINARY? ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT OR SUGGESTIONS ON? I'M OKAY, UH, DOING PRELIMINARY AND FINAL AS LONG AS JEN AND BRIAN MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS CLEANED UP FAIRLY.
THAT PART OF THE, THAT WILL BE PART OF THE PROPO - OF THE, UH, YOU KNOW, REQUEST.
AND AGAIN, ANYTHING IN THE PENNDOT LETTER, WE, EVEN IF THIS WAS A FINAL, PURE FINAL AND EVERYTHING WAS CLEAN AND WE CAN'T HOLD IT UP ON, BASED ON THE PENDOT LETTER.
THAT, THAT'S AN OUTSIDE AGENCY, SO.
JUST MAKING SURE THAT WE JUST WANT.
BUT I, BUT I ASSUME THAT WHEN YOU PRESENT THIS TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS THAT THE FINAL WILL REFLECT ALL OF THE CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED AND MUTUALLY AGREED UPON WITH WHATEVER WAIVERS THAT ARE ALREADY LEFT TO PRESENT TO THE SUPERVISORS.
FINAL, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE ASKING THEM TO APPROVE.
GIVEN THAT, YOU KNOW, BRIAN AND JEN AND - THEY HAVE TO HAVE A SUBMITTED PLAN SET TO JEN THAT JEN SENDS AN EMAIL OR A LETTER TO ME SAYING THE PLAN IS CLEAN.
SHE ISSUES A LETTER AND THEN WE MAKE SURE THAT THAT DATE FOR THAT LETTER MATCHES.
THE DATE THAT'S REVIEWED ON THAT LETTER MATCHES THE DATE OF THE PLANS THE BOARD APPROVES.
OR THAT IS IN FRONT OF THE BOARD TO APPROVE.
AND, AND FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, I ALWAYS NEED THE FINAL PENNDOT APPROVALS AS A CONDITION.
WE CAN'T PUT ANY CONDITIONS ON THERE.
THEY'RE ALWAYS NON-CONDITIONED CONDITIONS FOR LACK OF A BETTER WAY OF PUTTING IT BECAUSE WE CAN'T CONDITION OUR APPROVAL BASED ON PENNDOT AND MONTGOMERY COUNTY CONSERVATION DISTRICT, BUT IT'S ALWAYS IN JEN'S LETTER SAYING YOU STILL NEED TO GET THESE APPROVALS.
SO I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT HAS TO HAPPEN BEFORE THIS DONE DEAL.
I DO NOT LET THEM RECORD UNTIL - JUST, JUST TO CLARIFY, WE CAN CONDITION THAT THEY HAVE TO GET THE APPROVAL.
[01:40:01]
THEM THE TOWNSHIP.TOWNSHIP'S FINAL APPROVAL IS ESSENTIALLY TOWNSHIP STATEMENT THAT EVERYTHING THAT WE CONTROL THAT'S WITHIN OUR PURVIEW HAS BEEN SATISFIED.
AND ANYTHING, ANYTHING THAT IS CONTROLLED BY DEP, PENNDOT, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, NASA, AND I DON'T KNOW, ANYTHING ELSE THAT MIGHT BE AN ISSUE IS WE'RE CONDITIONING THEM GETTING THOSE APPROVALS.
THAT'S A CONDITION OF THE FINAL APPROVAL.
SO DOES YOU GUYS HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THE FINAL PRELIMINARY HEARING TONIGHT? NO.
SO SOMEBODY WILL MAKE A PROPOSAL THEN? I'LL MAKE A PROPOSAL THAT WE MOVE THIS RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND PRELIMINARY AND FINAL, UH, WITH THE CONDITION THAT ALL APPROPRIATE PERMITS INCLUDING THE PENNDOT PERMITS BE ADEQUATELY APPROVED AND OUR ENGINEERING TEAM AGREE WITH ALL THAT'S BEEN AGREED TO WITH ALL THE CONVERSATIONS.
DOES THAT WORDING WORK FOR YOU, ZACH? YEAH.
THE, THE, THESE ARE ALL THE COM - THESE ARE ALL THE COMMON CONDITIONS THAT ARE RESOLUTION AND I'LL DRAFT THE RESOLUTIONS AND SEND IT TO BERNADETTE AND, UH, MAKE SURE THERE AREN'T ANY ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO WORK OUT BEFORE THE BOARD GETS IT.
UM, GENERAL MAKE SURE THAT THE PLANS ARE CLEAN BEFORE THEY GO TO THE BOARD OR AT LEAST AS CLEAN AS THEY NEED TO BE TO GET BOARD APPROVAL.
OFTENTIMES THERE'S STILL SOME LAST CLEAN UP STUFF BEFORE THEY'RE READY TO BE RECORDED.
UM, BUT YEAH, THAT'S ALL, THAT'S ALL STANDARD STUFF THAT WE INCLUDE IN THE APPROVAL.
JUST THE ONE THING I WANTED TO MENTION WAS, UH, WE WOULD ALSO NEED A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE WAIVERS.
WELL, DO WE WANT TO DO THOSE SEPARATELY OR DO WE HAVE...
SO THEN THE MOTION TO ALSO INCLUDE THE, UH, RECOMMENDATION ON THE REQUESTED WAIVERS.
I'M NOT SURE I KNOW WHAT ALL THE WAIVERS ARE.
THEY, THEY'RE THE LETTER THAT THEY'RE THE MAY 5TH LETTER THAT WAS HANDED INDIVIDUALLY.
FOR WAIVER ONE FOR EXISTING AND PROPOSED FEATURES.
WAIVER TWO IS FOR LANDSCAPE PLAN REQUIREMENTS.
DRAFTING STANDARDS FOR WAIVER THREE.
WAIVER FOUR IS A DRAINAGE, UH, MINIMUM SLOPE WAIVER.
WAIVER FIVE IS FOR OPEN SPACE.
UH, AND THEN WAIVER SIX IS FOR PIPE SIZE AND MATERIAL.
SEVEN IS - OH, THERE'S A SEVEN? YEAH, DEWATERING.
OH, I, I HAVE A MAY 5TH LETTER.
IF THAT'S THE MOST CURRENT LETTER.
I DON'T KNOW.THAT IS SO WEIRD.
YEAH, THE, THE LAST TWO, SIX AND SEVEN WERE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, UM, WAIVERS.
THE LAST, THE NUMBER SEVEN WAS IN REFERENCE TO BASIN DE-WATERING.
I, I GAVE YOU, AGAIN, DISTRIBUTED THE LAST COPY I HAD.
I MEAN, JEN, WE WENT THROUGH IT BEFORE THE AUGUST MEETING.
YEAH, IN OUR AUGUST 17TH LETTER, UH - DO YOU HAVE, DO YOU HAVE THE FULL WAIVER LETTER WITH YOU? I DO.
WHENEVER YOU'RE DONE, JUST MAKE SURE YOU GIVE IT TO JEFF SO WE HAVE A FORMAL WRITTEN WAIVER REQUEST THAT'S BEEN SUBMITTED TO THE TOWNSHIP.
IN OUR AUGUST 17TH LETTER, UH, OUR COMMENT 15 IS THE WAIVER FOR NEW WATERING TIME AND OUR COMMENT 16 IS THE WAIVER FOR PIPE SIZE.
SO I BELIEVE THAT - IT ALIGNS YOUR LETTER AND THE WAIVER REQUEST LETTER ALIGNED.
JEN, WHAT LETTER? OR I HAVE IN AUGUST.
GILMORE AND ASSOCIATES AUGUST 17TH, 2026.
IN, IN THE PACKAGE UP, I THINK THAT THERE WOULD BE AUGUST 11TH LETTER.
BUT THAT'S JUST A RESPONSE LETTER.
I MEAN, I DIDN'T READ FOR DETAIL, MAYBE IT TALKS ABOUT THE WAIVERS.
SO WE WANT TO AMEND THE PROPOSAL OR THE, UH, RECOMMENDATION TO SAY THAT ALL, UH, WAIVERS MUST BE APPROVED.
THAT YOU, THAT YOU RECOMMEND THE BOARD APPROVE THE WAIVERS.
THE SEVEN WAIVERS LISTED ON THE MAY 5TH LETTER.
BUT ON THE MAY, NOT THE MAY 5TH.
WE HAVE A, WELL, I HAVE A MAY 5TH LETTER FROM THEM THAT BRIAN POINTED OUT TO ME.
THERE WAS A CONFUSION BEFORE THE AUGUST MEETING AND I HAVE THIS MAY 5TH LETTER.
I'LL MAKE SURE THAT THIS MAY 5TH LETTER WHICH IS, REFLECTS THE SAME THING AS THE AUGUST LETTER FROM THEIR RESPONSE LETTER IS THEIR WAIVER LETTER BECAUSE IT'S AN ACTUAL WAIVER LETTER, NOT A RESPONSE LETTER.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT, UM, THE AUGUST
[01:45:01]
17TH LETTER, IT'S NUMBER 15 AND 16.WE DON'T HAVE THAT LETTER IN OUR PACKET.
NO, I HAVE AN AUGUST 11TH LETTER.
NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE GILMORE REVIEW LETTER.
THOSE ARE THE TWO STORMWATER MANAGEMENT WAIVERS.
SO WHAT, UM, JEFF, WE'LL, WE'LL AMEND THAT, UH, RECOMMENDATION TO INCLUDE THESE WAIVERS.
I JUST ASK CASTRO TO EMAIL ME A LETTER DATED THIS WEEK.
JUST LONG AS IT'S WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THIS MEETING.
AND I WILL MAKE SURE THAT THAT LETTER REFLECTS THE SEVEN IN THIS LETTER, THE SEVEN IN JEN'S LETTER.
WE'LL COORDINATE IT, MAKE SURE IT MATCHES, AND WE'LL USE THAT DATE SO THERE'S NO CONFUSION.
YOU JUST RECOMMENDED THE LANGUAGE FOR THE - YEAH.
WHICH I GOTTA FIGURE OUT HOW I'M GONNA WRITE ET CETERA.
BUT WE ALL ARE ON THE SAME PAGE.
SO JEN, CAN I JUST ASK, YOU'RE OKAY WITH ALL THE WAIVERS THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF THE SEVEN THAT ARE REFERENCED? YEAH, THE SEVEN IN OUR LETTER ARE COMMENTS THREE, FIVE, SIX, EIGHT, 10, 15, AND 16.
SO THAT'S SEVEN COMMENTS IN OUR LETTER WHICH MATCHES UP TO THE SEVEN WAIVER REQUESTS, UM, WAIVERS, BOLD TEXT IN HERE.
SO YOU'VE ONLY SEEN THESE, YOU'VE ALREADY COMMENTED.
I HAVE A LOT OF YESES AND NOS IN THERE.
YOU, YOU'VE SEEN IT, YOU'RE HAPPY WITH IT.
SO THAT'S THE RECOMMENDATION, JEFF, THEN WE'LL HAVE THAT AMENDMENT.
JOE HAS AMENDED SINCE HE MADE THE RECOMMENDATION.
OKAY JOE, YES, WE'RE GONNA FOLLOW THE RED RULES.
UH, I'D LIKE TO REC - UH, TO AMEND MY RECOMMENDATION TO ALSO INCLUDE THE, UH, THE - STUFF WE JUST TALKED ABOUT.
SEVEN WAIVERS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED ALSO BE PRESENTED TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS FOR APPROVAL.
YOU ALL RIGHT WITH THAT, ZACH? YES.
WITH THAT, DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.
HEY, ONE THING THOUGH BEFORE YOU GO.
WHO DO I TALK TO ABOUT GETTING THAT BIG RENT SIGN? WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO WITH THAT? RENT SIGN? WRENCH.
REALLY? PROBABLY FOR THE SAME REASON YOU WOULD.
I HOPE SOMEBODY GETS IT THAT APPRECIATES IT.
I HOPE IT AIN'T GONNA BE IN THE TRASH.
[ DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
MAKE THE REST OF THIS QUICK.NEXT MEETING, WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING WITH CYPRESS PLACE OF ROYCE FOR BAPTIST.
IF WE THOUGH WE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE LAST NIGHT, TONIGHT WE'LL HAVE MORE PEOPLE FOR THAT ONE.
UM, AGAIN, I DON'T ANTICIPATE COMING TO ANY STRONG CONCLUSIONS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR MAYBE A RECOMMENDATION ON THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT.
WE'LL SEE IF WE GET THERE OR NOT.
UM, DECEMBER 2ND, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PRESENTATION BY OUR TOWNSHIP, UH, CONSULTANT THAT DOES, THAT'S BEEN WORKING ON OUR TRAIL MASTER PLAN.
THEY'RE FINALLY AT THE POINT OF WANT TO PRESENT SOME IDEAS AND SOME DRAFT PLANS TO YOU.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE ANY LAND DEVELOPMENT ON THAT MEETING, BUT WE'LL SEE IF SOMETHING SORT OF SHAKES ITSELF OUT.
WE HAVE A COUPLE NEW PLANS THAT ARE IN, BUT I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE ARE.
DO YOU EXPECT A LOT OF, UH, PUBLIC PARTICIPATION? FOR THE TOWN...
FOR THE TRAIL PLANS MASTER PLAN MEETING, WE'LL HAVE PEOPLE HERE FOR IT.
NOT LIKE THE MEETING INFORMATIONAL MEETINGS.
NO, WE WON'T HAVE NEARLY THAT MANY.
UM, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL GET A LITTLE BIT OF A CROWD FOR IT.
YOU KNOW, IT'S YOUR FIRST INTRODUCTION TO IT.
JOE'S BEEN IN A FEW MEETINGS FOR IT, SO, BUT IT'S GOOD FOR YOU TO SEE THAT, ESPECIALLY IN ANTICIPATION OF THE ACT 209 PROCESS FOR NEXT YEAR.
UM, UH, ARE WE LOOKING AT THE 16TH STILL? ARE WE, IS IT TOO EARLY TO SAY WE'RE GONNA, UH - 16TH OF DECEMBER? YOU CAN VOTE TO CANCEL IT WHENEVER YOU FEEL - OH, I THINK WE, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE, UH, LUNCHEON ANYHOW.
SO I THINK THAT WE OUGHT TO SAY IT NOW SO WE CAN SCHEDULE, PEOPLE COULD SCHEDULE AROUND IT THEN WE POSTPONE OR...
AS LONG, AS LONG AS JEFF DOESN'T COME UP WITH, UH, SOME NEW THAT NEED, THAT NEEDS SIGNIFICANT - I'M BETTER AT MY JOB THAN THAT.
SO, SO, UH, I'LL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE ALREADY CANCEL THE 16TH OF DECEMBER, BECAUSE THAT IS OUR LUNCHEON THAT DAY ANYHOW, AND YOU KNOW HOW BOB LIKES TO DRINK.THAT'S
[01:50:04]
ALL ON THE RECORD.EVERYBODY AGREE WITH THAT? EVERYBODY AGREE THAT DECEMBER 16TH? UH, UH, WE'LL CANCEL THAT AND, UH, THAT LOOKS GOOD.
AND THEN ENVIRONMENTAL COUNCIL ON THE 18TH.
THE 18TH OF THIS MONTH WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING SOLAR FEASIBILITY AND SOME OTHER THINGS, SO EVERYBODY'S WELCOME TO JOIN.
UM, THAT'S ALL WE HAVE, I THINK.
YEAH, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE.
I'LL TAKE REALLY, UH, A VOTE TO, UH, ADJOURN.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
JOE'S MADE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.