[CALL TO ORDER / MOTION TO APPROVE SEPTEMBER 2, 2026 AGENDA]
[00:00:05]
A CALL TO ORDER, UH, THE MEETING FOR TONIGHT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP.
AND, UM, THE FIRST THING ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT IS ME TO INTRODUCE OUR NEWEST MEMBER BLAIR.
UH, WHAT'S YOUR HUSBAND NAME, DO YOU BLA DER BLAIR.
UH, I THINK YOU KNOW EVERYBODY.
BRIAN AND JEN, DID YOU MEET? I MET BRIAN.
I JUST INTRODUCED YOU TO HIM ALL.
THANK, UM, SO MOVING ON WITH THE AGENDA.
THE FIRST THING WOULD BE TO, UH, UM, A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS AGENDA, WHICH LOOKS LIKE WE ONLY HAVE ONE APPLICANT TONIGHT, BUT THIS AGENDA FOR TONIGHT, UH, I NEED A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS.
OKAY, THEN WE'LL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT ON ANY NON AGENDA ITEMS. THERE HAVE NO MINUTES AGAIN TONIGHT.
UM, NON AGENDA ITEMS. ANY, UH, ANY, UH, ANYBODY HERE TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA? DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
NEXT WOULD BE APPROVE THE AUGUST 5TH MEETING MINUTES, WHICH ARE ATTACHED IN THE PACKET.AND, UM, IF YOU'VE, UH, GONE THROUGH THEM, IF YOU HAVE NO REAL COMMENTS AT THIS POINT, WE'LL TAKE THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM AUGUST THE FIFTH.
I'LL APPROVE THE, UH, MINUTES OF THE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION FROM AUGUST 5TH.
JERRY, YOU GOT A SECOND? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
NOW WE'RE GONNA, UH, TALK ABOUT THE MEETING NOTES FROM, UM, THE 19TH, WHICH WAS OUR LAST MEETING.
UH, WE DID NOT HAVE A QUORUM, SO WE JUST, ALL WE HAD WAS SOME DISCUSSIONS WE HAD.
WE DON'T HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THEM NECESSARILY.
I JUST REALLY WANTED TO INCLUDE IN THE PACKET SO THAT THEY WERE THEY WERE THERE.
YEAH, WE HAD, WE, WE HAD SOMEBODY PRESENT THE CAR WASH PRESENTED, BUT WE COULDN'T VOTE ON ANYTHING.
BUT THEY DID PRESENT THEIR, THEIR, UH, THEIR PLAN THAT THEY'LL BE COMING BACK SOMETIMES, JEFF, YOU KNOW, WHEN NO.
SO THE CAR WASH WILL BE COMING BACK.
THAT'S THE ONE OUT ON, UH, RIDGE PIPE, BY THE WAY.
UH, UH, WHAT'S THE FLAG? THE FLAGSHIP SHOULD SPOTLESS SPOTLESS.
SPOTLESS FLAG, FLAG, SPOTLESS, WHATEVER.
UM, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO VOTE ON THAT.
AND WE'LL MOVE DOWN TO THE, UH, APPLICATION THAT JEFF SENT IT OUT, UM, THIS WEEK.
DID YOU EVER FIX MY, UH, UM, YES, THAT SHOULD BE FIXED, ACTUALLY.
UM, WHAT I DON'T HAVE UP HERE IS WE DO HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE'VE RECEIVED TWO PLANS.
ONE IS LISTED HERE, THE OTHER ONE IS NOT.
THE FIRST ONE IS WE RECEIVED THE OFFICIAL APPLICATION FOR THE CYPRESS PLACE AT AURORA FOR BAPTIST.
REMEMBER WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH 'EM.
THEY BROUGHT IN ACTUAL APPLICATION TO ANSWER THAT.
UH, WE'LL START WITH THE REZONING OR THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE.
AND THEN WE ALSO JUST TODAY RECEIVED A MINOR SUBDIVISION FOR A TRACK ON MC OR MCDADE, NORTH OF EGYPT ROAD.
IT'S A, IT IS A MINOR SUBDIVISION.
THEY'RE TAKING OFF A LOT AND PUTTING ANOTHER HOUSE.
SO I DON'T HAVE THOSE PLANS THERE, BUT YOU'LL SEE THEM GO OUT TOMORROW WHEN I FORMALLY PROCESS THE APPLICATIONS.
AND THEN THE, THE, THE, UH, THE CHURCH IN CYPRUS PLACED ANY DATE ON THAT? NO.
UM, UM, WE HAVE TO SORT OF GET INTO THE PLANS FIRST AND THE, AND THE REVISIONS, THE ZONING BUSINESS NOW HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE ZONING FIRST, RIGHT? NO, IT'LL COME TO US FIRST.
AND WE'LL, WE WILL LOOK AT THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT FIRST.
AND THEN WE, WE'LL TALK TO THEM ABOUT THAT AND THEN WE'LL SEE IF THE BOARD WANTS TO HEAR THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT.
AND THEN, UM, DO YOU WANT TO, UH, IS IT TIME, GIVE US AN UPDATE FROM THE SUPERVISOR MEDIA NIGHT ON THE CAR WASH DOWN ON, UM, UH, BLACKROCK.
LET'S DO THAT AT THE END WITH THE, THE DISCUSSION OF, OF FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. OKAY.
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON SEPTEMBER 2, 2026]
UH, WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE APPLICANT TO BE HEARD TONIGHT.UM, AND THAT ARE FRIENDS THAT ARE FROM, UH, FOX LANE, THAT, THAT WERE HERE.
WHAT, WHAT, TWO MONTHS AGO? THREE MONTHS AGO? YES.
HOW IT WAS A COUPLE MONTHS AGO.
GREG EDELMAN HERE AGAIN ON BEHALF OF FOX LANE.
I'M HERE WITH JOE MORRISEY AND JOHN RAFFIN FROM FOX LAND.
AND YOU, JEFF AND BRIAN AND JEN.
UM, SO WHEN WE WERE HERE IN JULY, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE RIDGE PIKE, UH, POTENTIAL REZONING AND THERE WERE SOME ISSUES THAT WERE BROUGHT UP BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION THAT WE SPENT SOME TIME LOOKING INTO AND HOPEFULLY PROVIDING SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.
AND BLAIR, WE WILL HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE STUFF THAT WE TALKED ABOUT AGAIN THROUGH THIS PRESENTATION.
SO THAT HOPEFULLY WILL GIVE YOU A, A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND INFORMATION SO YOU'RE NOT COMPLETELY, UM,
[00:05:01]
UH, WITHOUT SOME, UH, BACKGROUND IN TERMS OF WHAT WE'RE ADDING HERE.BUT THE ISSUES THAT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT AT THE LAST MEETING, UH, THAT WERE RAISED WAS WHETHER WE COULD ADD IN MORE ACTIVE ADULT HOMES.
UH, THERE WAS ALSO SOME QUESTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SCHOOL IMPACT AS A RESULT OF SCHOOL AGE, KIDS, CHILDREN, UM, AND THE POTENTIAL RESIDENTIAL PORTION OF THE MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT.
ALSO, OBVIOUSLY IMPACT ON TRAFFIC.
AND ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP WAS DEALING WITH RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL AND WHETHER WE COULD ADD MORE RETAIL AND OR, UM, ALSO HAVE A CONNECTION.
AND JERRY, I THINK THAT WAS YOUR COMMENT WITH RESPECT TO COMMERCIAL, UM, AND WHETHER THE PROPOSED RESIDENTIAL WAS TOO CLOSE TO EXISTING RETAIL.
SO WE'VE LOOKED AT ALL OF THOSE ISSUES.
WE HAVE A PRESENTATION THAT JOE'S GONNA WALK US THROUGH, IS GONNA TELL YOU WHAT FOX LANE HAS LOOKED AT.
JOHN'S GONNA JUMP IN ON SOME OF THE ISSUES AS WELL.
SO IF WE COULD JUST TAKE IT THROUGH AND THEN, UH, YOU KNOW, AS WE GET TO THE END, OBVIOUSLY, AGAIN, GET YOUR REACTIONS, YOUR, YOUR COMMENTS AND YOUR QUESTIONS.
WHERE WE WOULD LIKE TO END UP TODAY IS, I BELIEVE WE'RE SCHEDULED TO BE IN FRONT OF THE BOARD LATER IN SEPTEMBER OR LATER THIS MONTH, RIGHT? JEFF? Y YES, I THINK THAT'S CORRECT.
SO WE'D REALLY BE LOOKING TO GET SOME TYPE OF INPUT FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO SEND TO THE BOARD SO THAT WE CAN DO THE SAME PRESENTATION TO THEM.
AND ALSO HOPEFULLY CREATE ENOUGH SUPPORT AT THE BOARD TO MOVE FORWARD INTO THE REZONING TYPE OF, UH, A SITUATION WHERE WE START DRAFTING TO TRY TO PUT SOMETHING IN PLACE, ASSUMING THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD ARE ON BOARD WITH RESPECT TO DOING SOMETHING TO CHANGE TO THE CORRIDOR ZONING.
SO JOE, AT THIS POINT, IF YOU WANNA COME IN AND TAKE IT FROM THERE AND, UH, I THINK WE CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
UH, GREG, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR, UH, HAVING US AGAIN.
UM, SO ONCE AGAIN, JUST FOR, I GUESS FOR BLAIR, MY NAME'S JOE MORRISEY.
I'M ONE OF THE, UH, PRINCIPALS AT FOX LAKE HOMES, WHERE I CALL LOCAL HOME BUILDER, UH, BASED IN FORT WASHINGTON.
UH, WE TYPICALLY BUILD ABOUT A HUNDRED HOMES A YEAR IN THE PHILADELPHIA SUBURBS.
UH, ANYWHERE FROM TOWNS AND NEW BRITAIN TO SINGLE FAMILIES AND DOYLESTOWN AND RADNER AND, AND KIND OF ALL OVER IN BETWEEN JOHN RATHS OUR, UH, VICE PRESIDENT OF LAND DEVELOPMENT.
SO HE'S THE ONE BETWEEN THE TWO OF US THAT DOES ALL THE TOWNSHIP MEETINGS AND APPROVALS AND SITE WORK AND ALL THE OTHER GOOD STUFF THAT THAT KIND OF GOES WITH IT.
SO, UM, WE HAD A CHANCE TO, UM, GO BACK AND FORTH WITH TOWNSHIP STAFF AND THAT'S WHAT KIND OF GOT US TO THE FIRST PLAN WHEN WE WERE HERE.
I THINK IT WAS JULY 1ST, SO ROUGHLY TWO MONTHS AGO.
AND I THINK WE ALL KIND OF LEFT THERE AND I THOUGHT WE HAD SOME REALLY GOOD DISCUSSION BACK AND FORTH, BUT WE LEFT THERE THINKING, HEY, LIKE THIS IS A GOOD PLAN, BUT WE COULD PROBABLY MAKE IT BETTER.
AND GREG KIND OF TOUCHED ON SOME OF THE KEY POINTS, BUT JUST FOR BLAIR MOSTLY, BUT MAYBE I'LL JUST TAKE THE FIRST FIVE MINUTES TO KIND OF TELL YOU KIND OF HOW WE GOT HERE.
UM, THE THREE PARCELS THAT WE HAVE UNDER AGREEMENT, UM, RIGHT THERE ALONG MAIN STREET.
SO YOU HAVE KIND OF MAIN STREET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE, TOWNSHIP LINE TO YOUR LEFT, UH, GREENWOOD IS KIND OF TO THE RIGHT.
AND THEN THE POWER LINES ARE KIND OF RUNNING, UM, KIND OF STRAIGHT THROUGH IT.
THE THREE PARCELS TOGETHER REPRESENT, UH, 50.39 ACRES.
SO THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE'VE EVER HAD ALL THREE PARCELS COME IN, IN FRONT OF UPPER PROVIDENCE.
I THINK THERE'S BEEN TIMES IN THE PAST WHERE, UM, ONE IF MAYBE TWO OF THE PARCELS HAVE COME IN, BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE'VE EVER HAD A CHANCE TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ALL THREE PARCELS, CONNECT 'EM, AND BE ABLE TO CONNECT IT INTO THE, YOU KNOW, THE RETAIL AND THEN ALSO TO THE REST OF THE TOWNSHIP.
UH, ACTUALLY THINK, YEAH, OH, I'M NOT USING THE WRONG NAME ANYMORE.
SO, UM, I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS IN 2024, BUT IT'S CALLED IN 2024 UPPER PROVIDENCE, UM, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UM, A REALLY, REALLY GOOD, UH, PLAN THAT KIND OF LAYS OUT POPULATION GROWTH, HOUSING TYPES, YOU KNOW, WHAT OPERA PROVIDENCE HAS BEEN, WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO BE.
SO OUR GROUP HAS SPENT THE LAST SIX MONTHS SPENDING A LOT OF TIME ON THIS, UH, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
AND IT IS REALLY GOOD 'CAUSE IT'S NOT THAT IT'S AN ANSWER SHEET, BUT IT'S A REALLY GOOD GUIDE TO KIND OF LET PEOPLE SEE, HEY, WHAT COULD WORK IN THIS TOWNSHIP? UM, ONE OF THE BIG THINGS THAT CAME OUTTA THE CONTENT COMPREHENSION PLAN IS IT SAYS MAIN STREET IS IDENTIFIED AS ONE OF ONLY THREE DEVELOPMENT ZONES.
SO IN THE UPPER RIGHT WHERE YOU KIND OF SEE THE, THE BRIGHT RED, THAT'S THE AREA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, WHICH IS KIND OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, CONVENIENCE COMMERCIAL, JEFF.
SO ONE OF THE COMMENTS ON HERE, UNFORTUNATELY, IS IT GOOD ENOUGH, BUT I KIND OF HIGHLIGHTED YELLOW, BUT THIS CAME DIRECTLY FROM YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
IT SAYS REZONING FOR NEIGHBORHOOD CONVENIENCE, COMMERCIAL IS RECOMMENDED WITH NEW ZONING.
THAT CREATES A FLEXIBILITY OF USES WITH A POTENTIAL RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL AND OFFICE WITH THE RESIDENTIAL BEING CLOSER TO EXISTING RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL, NEAR COMMERCIAL.
SO ALMOST KIND OF A MIXED USE ZONING POTENTIAL.
AND THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH TOWNSHIP STAFF AND THEN KIND OF WITH OUR PLANNERS TRYING TO COME UP WITH A GOOD PLAN THAT WE THINK WOULD KIND OF WORK
[00:10:01]
FOR, FOR EVERYBODY.BLOWN UP A LITTLE BIT AS YOU'RE KIND OF COMING THROUGH RIDGE PIKE AND MAIN STREET, ONCE AGAIN, TOWNSHIP TO YOUR TOWNSHIP LAND TO YOUR LEFT GREENWOOD TO YOUR FAR RIGHT KIND OF TRAP BOROUGH TO YOUR FAR RIGHT, THERE'S ROUGHLY, IT'S EITHER 50 OR 51 PROPERTIES THAT MAKE UP KIND OF THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, NC ZONING AS YOU KIND OF GO THROUGH THERE.
WHEN YOU START A TOWNSHIP LINE KIND OF MOVING BACK FOR THE FIRST MILE, YOU DEFINITELY HAVE SOME DEVELOP, MAYBE IT'S HALF MILE ONCE YOU GET PAST KIND OF THE TARGET, UM, THE STORAGE AREA THERE, ESPECIALLY ON THE LEFT SIDE, IT JUST BECOMES A LOT MORE, UM, LESS DENSE, LESS LESS DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND I THINK TALKING TO THE TOWNSHIP STAFF AND LOOKING AT IT, THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING PRETTY COOL THERE THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD LITTLE STEPPING STONE TO BE IN KIND OF RE REVITALIZATION OF THAT WHOLE KIND OF MAIN STREET, UM, RIDGE PI.
SO OUR HOPE IS THAT WE COULD BE THE ONES TO KIND OF GET THAT PROCESS GOING.
A COUPLE OTHER KIND OF KEY POINTS OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT JUST TALKS ABOUT REDEVELOPMENT SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO AREAS WHERE INFRASTRUCTURE ALREADY EXISTS, WHICH OBVIOUSLY RIDGE PIPE, TOWNSHIP LINE PROXIMITY TO 4 22.
UM, THE BIG THING, AND WHAT I'LL PROBABLY SPEND MORE TIME ON TONIGHT IS THE HOUSING DIVERSITY NEEDS TO ACCOMMODATE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS AND AGING RESIDENTS.
I THINK WE HAD A REALLY GOOD CONVERSATION BACK AND FORTH WHETHER DO WE DO MORE AGE RESTRICTED, DO WE DO MORE, YOU KNOW, UM, KIND OF STUFF.
I WOULD CALL IT MORE, UH, AFFORDABLE OR FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS.
DO YOU WANT YOUNG FAMILIES? AND THE WAY THE PLAN IS KIND OF LAID OUT IS IT'S VERY INTERCHANGEABLE AND I, IF IT'S ME PERSONALLY, I'M RECOMMENDING FOUR DIFFERENT HOUSE TYPES THAT I THINK WOULD, WOULD ALL WORK HERE.
UM, AND THEN JUST WANTED TO KIND OF GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT YOU LIKED, DIDN'T LIKE, AND THEN WE'LL KIND OF GO THROUGH IT.
BUT, UM, TOWARDS THE END OF IT, I'LL SPEND, SPEND A LOT MORE TIME ON THE HOUSING AND EVEN BRINGING DOWN TO MONTHLY PAYMENTS OF THE DIFFERENT PRODUCT BECAUSE SOMETIMES SALE PRICES YOU LOOK AT, YOU ARE LIKE, OH, BUT THEN WHEN YOU REALLY LOOK LIKE WHAT DOES IT REALLY COST TO, TO TO LIVE THERE? AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, WHAT DO YOU NEED TO MAKE TO BE ABLE TO LIVE THERE? SO BEING ABLE TO KIND OF LOOK AT THAT TO SAY, HEY, ARE WE MAKING GOOD DECISIONS FOR, FOR US AND FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, AND THEN THE THIRD THING, WHICH I'LL JUST HIGHLIGHT THE YELLOW LINE, IT SAYS, HOWEVER, THE ZONING NEIGHBORHOOD CONVENIENCE COMMERCIAL NC IS LIMITED TO PRIMARILY RETAIL USAGE, WHICH AT THE TIME OF PUBLICATION HAS BEEN A WEAK DEVELOPMENT MARKET.
OUT OF THOSE THREE PROPERTIES THAT WE HAVE TIED UP, THE ONE ON THE LEFT HAS BEEN UNDER AGREEMENT OR SHOULD SAY AN AGREEMENT HAS BEEN OWNED FOR ROUGHLY 38 YEARS.
THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE IS 10, AND THE ONE ON THE FAR RIGHT IS PROBABLY FOR ALL 38 YEARS THAT THE LAND SELLER OWNED THAT PROPERTY.
IT'S BEEN MARKETED TO POTENTIALLY BUILD AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES TO DO STUFF.
AND MAINLY THAT'S JUST BASED ON THE CURRENT ZONING THERE.
SO COMING UP WITH SOMETHING THAT COULD ABSOLUTELY BENEFIT THE LAND SELLER, BUT THEN ALSO BENEFIT THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, THREE, THREE SEPARATE OWNERS, SAME OWNER, THREE SEPARATE PROPERTIES.
UM, SO JUST KIND OF JUST MORE LITTLE TIDBITS FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, JUST TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF PAINT THE PICTURE A LITTLE BIT.
SO WHEN WE WERE HERE LAST, UM, WHEN WE WERE HERE LAST, THIS WAS KIND OF THE PLAN THAT WE LOOKED AT.
SO I THINK JUST A, A QUICK KIND OF OVERVIEW, FAR RIGHT IS THE ACTIVE ADULT CARRIAGES, KIND OF THE 55 AND OVER EVERYTHING ALONG RIDGE PIKE IS THE RETAIL.
WE HAD A COMBINATION OF THREE STORY, WHAT I WOULD CALL TRADITIONAL TOWN HOMES AND THEN THREE AND FOUR STORY STACK TOWN HOMES, WHICH IS TWO UNITS IN A, IN A KIND OF ONE FOOTPRINT.
AND THEN WE HAVE TWINS, WHICH IS THE YELLOW IN THE BACK.
UM, OVERALL WE REALLY LIKED A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT THIS PLAN.
UM, WE LIKED KIND OF HAVING THE ACTIVE ADULT KIND OF SEPARATE.
WE LOVED HAVING THE RETAIL ALONG RIDGE PIKE.
UM, WE, UH, LIKED HAVING THE, THE TWINS UP AGAINST THE EXISTING SINGLE FAMILIES.
WE THOUGHT IT WAS JUST A GOOD TRANSITION.
UH, THE TRAILS PRETTY MUCH CONNECT EVERYTHING.
AND IF IT'S OKAY, CAN I JUST WALK OVER THIS? CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME IF I GO THIS WAY? SURE.
THE REALLY KIND OF NICE THING ABOUT THIS PLAN IS YOU HAVE THE PICO EASEMENT THROUGH HERE.
UM, WE'RE SHOWING THE TRAILS KIND OF ALL THE WAY THROUGH WITH THE ACTIVE ADULT.
YOU GOT THE PICKLEBALL COURTS TRAILS KIND OF COMING UP THROUGH HERE, THROUGH HERE, BUT REALISTICALLY, YOU KNOW, THE TOWNSHIP HAS EASEMENTS AND OWN SOME GROUND UP ABOVE.
SO BEING ABLE TO TIE IN KIND OF THAT PART OF UPPER PROVIDENCE AND LITERALLY BEING ABLE TO GET THEM TO BE ABLE TO COME ALL THE WAY DOWN HERE, DOWN THIS WAY, POTENTIAL RETAIL HERE, CONNECTING TO THE RETAIL HERE.
UH, JOHN WILL TALK ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SOME OF OUR TRAFFIC ANALYSIS AND STOPLIGHT HERE AND GET PEOPLE ACROSS THIS WAY.
IT COULD MAKE THIS VERY WALKABLE.
NOT THAT YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, WALKING THROUGH A, YOU KNOW, A, A PARK OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT IT WOULDN'T BE CRAZY TO BE ABLE TO CONNECT, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE TOWNSHIP AND MAKE IT REALLY KIND OF A REALLY NICE KIND OF WALKABLE, ESPECIALLY IF WE FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET SOME KIND OF SIT DOWN RESTAURANTS AND SOME OF THE OTHER STUFF THROUGH HERE.
[00:15:01]
THERE WAS A LOT OF THINGS WE REALLY LIKED ABOUT THIS PLAN, BUT THE NEXT PLAN, WE LIKED IT MORE.SO THE COMMENTS FROM THE LAST PLAN, SO HERE'S YOUR LIGHT, HERE'S KIND OF RICH PIKE KIND OF GOING THROUGH HERE.
BANK OF AMERICA KIND OF SITS HERE.
SO ONE OF THE COMMENTS WAS, HEY, HOW DO WE CONNECT ALL THIS? SO IN THIS PLAN WE ENDED UP THROWING THE ROAD, CONNECTING THIS WAY AND WE SHOWED THE ROAD CONNECTING THIS WAY.
WE DID TALK TO THE OWNERS OF THIS PROPERTY.
THEY WOULD'VE SOME INTEREST OF DOING SOME KIND OF PARTNERSHIP ON THIS SIDE, WHETHER WE HAD A PARTNERSHIP OR ANYTHING.
THEY LIKED THE IDEA OF CONNECTING BOTH RETAIL PROPERTIES.
SO THE THOUGHT PROCESS, OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVE THE LIGHT THERE, BUT IT WOULD BE VERY EASY TO BE ABLE TO DRIVE ALL OUR HOMEOWNERS, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THEY'RE WALKING UP TO THE BEER STORE OR THE, YOU KNOW, PERSONAL FITNESS OR DOING GROCERY SHOPPING AT
UM, IT COULD BE A REALLY NICE CONVENIENCE FOR ALL THAT.
AND THEY'VE DONE ACTUALLY A REALLY NICE JOB LANDSCAPING THAT AND KIND OF MAKING IT SO US TIED ALL THIS IN, UH, TO OUR RETAIL.
I THINK IT ACTUALLY BE REALLY NICE.
UH, NUMBER TWO, THERE WAS A CONCERN OF WE HAD RESIDENTIAL DOWN ALONG HERE.
WE TOOK ALL THAT RESIDENTIAL UP, WE PUT THE RETAIL UP THROUGH HERE TO TRY TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF SEPARATION BETWEEN THE RESIDENTIAL HOMES AND THE LID.
WE ENDED UP ADDING ANOTHER 15,000 SQUARE FEET, UH, OF RETAIL.
SO ON THE LAST PLAN WE HAD 45,000 SQUARE FEET.
I THINK A COUPLE OF BOARD MEMBERS HAD SAID, HEY, WE'D LOVE TO HAVE SOME MORE RETAIL.
SO WE ENDED UP DOING ADDITIONAL, UH, RETAIL BY ADDING SOME ADDITIONAL STUFF HERE, A BIGGER BUILDING HERE, STILL INCORPORATING KIND OF THIS OPEN SPACE.
UM, YOU KNOW, I'LL TALK ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT LATER BECAUSE I HAVE A BLOW UP OF IT, BUT THAT COULD BE WHETHER YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, UH, FRIDAY, SIX O'CLOCK YOGA CLASS OR YOU COULD HAVE A LITTLE FARMER'S MARKET, UM, ON HERE.
IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD SIZE WHERE PLAYING, IF YOU HAD 60, 70, 80 PEOPLE HANGING OUT HERE FOR A SMALL CONCERT, UM, YOU'D BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
YOU'D HAVE A SIDEWALK GOING ALL ACROSS, UM, MAIN STREET, KIND OF RIDGE PIKE ALL THE WAY THIS WAY.
AND LIKE I SAID BEFORE, SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, WE THOUGHT THIS WORKED.
NOW ON THIS PLAN WE'RE SHOWING ALL STACK TOWNS AND ONE OF THE CONVERSATIONS IS, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES YOU NEED THE RESIDENTIAL TO HELP DRIVE THE RETAIL.
SO WE ENDED UP GOING FROM ROUGHLY, I THINK IT WAS LIKE 231 UNITS TO 256 UNITS, THE FOOTPRINTS, WE ADDED SOME BUILDINGS HERE, BUT THE FOOTPRINTS FOR THE THREE STORY TOWNS FIRST, THE FOUR STORY STACK TOWNS, THEY'RE BOTH 24 WIDE BY 50 D.
SO IF FOR SOME REASON WE SAID, HEY, WE'D REALLY LOVE IT, I'LL GO INTO MORE DETAIL ON THE HOUSING A LITTLE BIT.
BUT WE SAID, HEY, WE'D LOVE TO TURN A COUPLE OF THESE SNACK TOWNS INTO THREE STORY TOWN HOME BUILDINGS BECAUSE THAT MIGHT BE BETTER FOR YOUNG FAMILIES.
WE CAN INTERCHANGE 'EM EITHER WAY TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT WORK.
SO WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF FLEXIBILITY TO KIND OF PLAY AROUND WITH THAT.
BUT ULTIMATELY ACTIVE ADULT HERE, RETAIL LONG HERE, WE'RE ENVISIONING KIND OF THAT SIT DOWN RESTAURANT, WHICH I THINK TOWNSHIP STAFF WOULD SAY, HEY, THIS PART OF UPPER PROVIDENCE REALLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT PLACE WHERE YOU CAN GO AND HAVE KIND OF A SIT DOWN RESTAURANT AND BE ABLE TO GRAB A MEAL AND A DRINK ON A, ON A FRIDAY NIGHT.
SO WE ENVISION TRYING TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT OVER HERE.
MORE THE RESIDENT OR THE RETAIL KIND OF SIMILAR MAYBE WHAT YOU SEE A LITTLE FARTHER DOWN THIS WAY ON THE OTHER SIDE, A REALLY NICE BOULEVARD AS YOU KIND OF COME UP THROUGH AND SOME NICE SEPARATION, BUT YOU GET A LITTLE BIT MORE HEIGHT AS YOU COME IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND THEN TWO STORY AS YOU GO BACK TO TRANSITION INTO THE SINGLE FAMILIES.
HOW DO, HOW DO ALL THE RESIDENTS IN THIS WHOLE AREA GET OUT OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT? BECAUSE IT APPEARS SO THERE'S ONLY ONE EXIT POINT, TECHNICALLY TWO.
SO FORGET, FORGET THE, INTO THE, UH, SHOPPING CENTER AREA.
SO RIGHT HERE KIND OF WHERE KLEIN'S AT, WE WOULD LIKE THAT, BUT THAT'S RETAIL.
YEAH, WE WOULD CONSIDER THE, THAT COMES OUT AS A, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT, THAT IS MORE OF A RETAIL, I MEAN I'M TALKING ABOUT ALL THESE, THERE'S ONLY APPEARS TO BE ONE EXIT, YOU KNOW, GOING OVER THE POWER LINES FROM BOTH DIRECTIONS COMING OUT INTO ONE MAJOR EXIT POINT.
SO EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING NEED TO FOCUS IN THAT AREA FROM ALL THE RESIDENTS.
NO, THEY DON'T WANT TO GO, THEY DON'T WANT TO GO, THEY DON'T WANNA HAVE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE, WITH THE RETAIL STUFF.
THEY DON'T WANT TO GO INTO THE SHOPPING AREA.
THEY JUST WANT TO GO OUT ONTO RIDGE PIKE.
SO IF THE THOUGHT, THEY JUST WANNA GO ON RIDGE PIKE AND THEY DON'T WANT TO DRIVE BY THE RETAIL, THE THOUGHT IS THEY COME DOWN HERE.
COME AFTER THE ONE PINNACLE AND, AND WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO WITH THAT ROAD TRAFFIC WISE? WHERE, WHERE, WHERE IT COMES OUT? YEAH, NO, YOU'RE, I PROBABLY DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THAT THOUGH.
WE ALWAYS ENVISION THIS BEING KIND OF MORE OF A BOULEVARD AS YOU, AS
[00:20:01]
YOU KIND OF GO UP IN.WELL, I, I DON'T SEE THAT WE SEE A BOULEVARD.
I MEAN YEAH, THIS IS A, THIS IS A ROAD COMING DOWN THROUGH HERE AND THERE MOST LIKELY BE A TRAFFIC LIGHT HERE.
SO WIDER, IS THAT SO WHERE WIDER? YEAH, IT'S TWO LANES.
EITHER WAY IT'S GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT BIGGER 'CAUSE YOU HAVE THE RETAIL COMPONENT OF IT, BUT WITH THE MIXED USE WITH THE RETAIL IN THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENTIAL IN THE BACK, WE WOULDN'T ENVISION ANYONE HAVING AN ISSUE WITH THE NEIGHBORS, YOU KNOW, COMING OUTTA HIS HOUSE HERE, COMING DOWN THIS WAY AND MAKING A RIGHT WITH PEOPLE COMING INTO THE RETAIL AREA.
AND SO HE SAYS, I I DON'T CARE.
I MEAN, I HAVE REAL PROBLEMS WITH THIS TRAFFIC FLOOR.
WE DO HAVE A TRAFFIC ANALYSIS THAT WE'RE HAPPY TO WE'LL GO THROUGH KIND OF TOWARDS THE END.
ONE MORE QUESTION FOR YOU THEN THOUGH.
SO IF YOU, IF YOU'RE A PARTNER WITH
WHY WOULDN'T THEY WANT THAT TRAFFIC TO COME THROUGH THEIR STORE? CORRECT.
UM, BUT SO THEY COULD SO THE YELLOW, THE TOP UP THE TOP THE TOP UH, HALSEY.
WHICH IS WHAT THE, UH, TOWNHOUSE IS, RIGHT? KIND OF.
THEY COULD GO OUT THE BACK WAY OUT THROUGH PAST BY ALMOST KIND OF LIKE BEHIND BY.
BUT THAT'S, THAT'S A, THAT'S A NARROW TWO LANE.
THERE'S THERE WITH DUMPSTERS BEHIND LIVE.
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TELL YOU THAT'S WHAT IT IS.
I ACTUALLY DROVE THERE LAST NIGHT.
I SPENT ABOUT AN HOUR JUST KIND OF WITH, THEY MUST HAVE PLANNED FOR WHEN THEY DID IT BECAUSE IT IS, TO YOUR POINT, IT'S TWO LANES, BUT THEY ACTUALLY HAVE STOP SIGNS BACK THERE TOO.
AND THEN THEY HAVE A SEPARATE LANE FOR THE DUMPSTERS WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN BLOCKED OFF SEPARATELY.
THEY'VE DONE A REALLY, I'M NOT SAYING I THINK I, ME PERSONALLY, I THINK OUR HOMEOWNERS WOULD BE TOTALLY FINE COMING DOWN HERE.
I DON'T THINK ANYONE WOULD PUSH BACK.
BUT THE THOUGHT IS YOU'D HAVE ONE ACCESS IF YOU WANTED.
YOU COULD HAVE TWO ACCESS IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE THE THIRD ACCESS.
WE, YOU KNOW, WITH ANY KIND OF MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE BENEFIT OF LIVING THERE IS, HEY, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY ON A FRIDAY NIGHT COME HOME AND BE ABLE TO WALK TO A RETAIL AND GRAB DINNER HERE OR POTENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, DROP OFF YOUR DRY CLEANING OR YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S GETTING YOUR HAIR DONE.
THAT'S THE BENEFIT OF THIS KIND OF WALKABILITY, THE TRADE OFF OF HAVING TO DRIVE BY THE RETAIL.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK ANY OF OUR HOMEOWNERS WOULD PUSH BACK ON THAT.
WHAT'S THE TOTAL NUMBER OF UNITS THIS PLAN? 56.
IT'S UH, 56, 256 HOME THAT SAYS NO TWO CARS PER HOUSE PER UNIT THERE
I MEAN, I, THAT'S MY BIG ISSUE HERE IS IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE MUCH OF A, AND AND RIDGE, PIKE IS A DANGER.
SO KING OR KLEIN ROAD THERE MORE ACCIDENTS ON KLEIN ROAD RIGHT THERE, RIGHT WHERE THE, WHERE THE RETAIL IS TOWNSHIP LINE.
AND IF YOU GO A LITTLE FURTHER DOWN, PENNY PACKER IS DOWN THERE.
I MEAN I, SO THIS IS WHAT I'LL TELL YOU.
I HAVE BIG PROBLEMS WITH THE TRAFFIC, SO IF IT'S FAIR AND WE TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC A LITTLE BIT 'CAUSE JOHN WILL COVER ALL THE TRAFFIC STUFF AND THEN I'LL LET YOU BEAT UP ON JOHN A. LITTLE BIT AND HE'LL KIND OF GO, HE'S A LITTLE BETTER ON THE TRAFFIC ASPECT FOR THAN I AM.
JUST GIVE US LIKE 10 MINUTES AND WE'LL KIND OF GET TO THAT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS CLAN OR THOUGHT PROCESS? WE DID KIND OF BLOW UP HERE SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THE LITTLE BIT OF THE TOWN CENTER WHERE THE THOUGHT IS THAT COULD BE A PLACE, KIND OF A GATHERING PLACE.
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE KIND OF HANG OUT TIED TO THE RETAIL, TIED TO THE RESIDENTIAL KIND OF INTO THAT MIXED USE FEEL.
THIS IS KIND OF A MINOR ISSUE, BUT YOU MENTIONED THE PICKLEBALL ON THE UPPER RIGHT HAND CORNER YEP.
UM, WHAT DO YOU DO FOR THE NOISE? WHO'S GONNA WANNA LIVE IN THOSE COUNTIES HERE? YES, THE THOUGHT IS THESE ARE AGE RESTRICTED.
UM, SO IT'S KIND OF THAT EMPTY NESTER BUYER.
UM, THEY'RE ROUGHLY WHAT WE CALL CARRIAGES FIRST FLOOR OWNER'S BEDROOM.
SO ONE TO TWO BEDROOMS ON THE FIRST FLOOR AND ONE TO TWO BEDROOMS ON TOP, BUT NO MORE THAN THREE BEDROOMS. BUT THE EXPECTATION IS THOSE ARE ALL YOUR MOVE DOWN BUYERS.
WHAT WOULD YOU DO? WOULD YOU PUT UP ATTENUATED SOUND FENCING OR SOMETHING AROUND? OH, SORRY, I YEAH, SORRY I MISSED THAT.
YEAH, WE WOULD PROBABLY DO SOME ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING AND SOME OF THE OTHER STUFF WE'VE DONE PICKLE BALLS IN IN SEVERAL OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS.
WE HAVEN'T GOT ANY PUSHBACK YET ON, ON NOISE.
UM, BUT IF PEOPLE DON'T WANT THE NOISE, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE GONNA GO TO A, TO A DIFFERENT HOUSE.
I'VE HEARD FROM OTHER DEVELOPMENTS NOT IN OUR TOWNSHIP WITH PEOPLE THAT HAVE REAL PROBLEMS. REALLY.
I WAS GONNA SAY, IF FOR SOME REASON YOU GUYS WANT PICKLEBALL COURT PICKLE REPLACE THE PICKLE BOWL WITH A DOG PARK CASES, WE CAN PUT ANY KIND OF OPEN REC THAT YOU WANT THERE.
WE CAN DO ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT.
[00:25:01]
WHATEVER, WHATEVER YOU WANT.THE PICKLE BOWL'S A NICE IDEA.
BUT YEAH, PICKLE BOWL, THE POPULAR AGE 55 HAVING CAGR PARTIES, IT'S PICKLE BOWL, THE PICKLEBALL WOULD BE PRIVATE TO THE DEVELOPMENT AND ALSO THEY WOULDN'T BE LIT AT NIGHT SO THEY, YOU KNOW, IT WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO BE USED AT NIGHT.
SO WHEN IT IS YOUR OWN RESIDENCE USING 'EM, ATTEMPT TO, TO ALLEVIATE PROBLEMS THAT YOU'D HAVE WITH THE POLICE.
UM, BUT LIKE JOE SAID, ANY AMENITY WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE JUST HERE FOR FEEDBACK FOR THAT.
SO JEFF, YOU MIGHT GO DOWN ONE MORE TIME.
THIS WAS JUST KIND OF AN IDEA.
UM, THIS IS A PROJECT OVER AT LANGHORNE.
UH, THIS IS ELLIS PRESERVE DOWN IN NEWTOWN SQUARE.
BUT WE WERE JUST TRYING TO GIVE AN IDEA BETWEEN KIND OF THE OPEN SPACE, THE RETAIL, POTENTIALLY HAVING SOME, UM, RESTAURANTS AND SOME KIND OF SIT DOWN SEATING.
WE COULD SEE THAT THERE MAY POTENTIALLY BE KIND OF SOME LIKE MED TAIL, LITTLE LIKE, UH, EMERGENCY SERVICES, DOCTOR'S OFFICE, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS IN THE RETAIL SIDE OF THE, UH, OF THE PROPERTY.
AND THEN JUST TO KIND OF SHOW IT ON A BIGGER SCALE.
UM, THAT'S KIND OF THE SHOP AT, AT UPPER PROP AND THEN WE JUST KIND OF LAID OUT EXACTLY WHICH WE SHOWED ON THE PLAN, BUT WHERE THE TWO ENTRANCES, WHICH IS THE ROAD YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IN THE BACK, THAT ACTUALLY TAKES THROUGH.
BUT IT IS INTERESTING, THEY, THEY DEFINITELY PLAN FOR, YOU KIND OF SEE THE BOULEVARD AS YOU GO UP AND THERE'S STOP SIGNS BACK THERE, WHICH IN ALL THE TIME I'VE BEEN DOING THIS, I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE.
BUT OBVIOUSLY IT WAS PRETTY WELL THOUGHT OUT BEFORE THAT THEY MUST HAVE FIGURED THAT THEY WERE GONNA HAVE PEOPLE DRIVING THAT FOR DELIVERY VEHICLES.
SO NO, I JUST HADN'T SEEN, I'LL PUSH BACK ON THAT.
YEAH, WE, WHEN, WHEN THAT, WHEN THAT DEVELOPMENT CAME IN, WE MADE THEM PUT IN A, A ROAD DESIGNED THE TOWNSHIP STANDARDS BACK THERE FOR A CONNECTION BETWEEN TOWNSHIP LINE DOWN TO KLEIN ROAD, DOWN TO PEN PACKER.
IT'S SHOWN ON THE OFFICIAL MAP.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT ON THE OFFICIAL MAP.
UM, IT IS DESIGNED TO BE THE RELIEF ROAD FOR THAT PORTION OF BRICK BIKE.
AND, AND IT MAKES SENSE FOR LIDOS FOR SURE WHETHER OR NOT IT WORKS WITH THEIR DEVELOPMENT.
THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION WE HAVE TO WORK THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
BUT THAT WAS THE, THE, THE PLAN FOR THE LIDDEL AND TRUST ME, SHOPS UP PROVIDENCE RETAIL SITES.
IT WAS AN ARGUMENT ON A COMPLICATED, SO MAKES SENSE.
SO ULTIMATELY WHERE WE'RE JUST TRYING TO DRIVE THE, THE POINT ACROSS THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER WE'LL FIGURE OUT A WAY TO BE ABLE TO CONNECT TO THE CURRENT SHOPPING CENTER AND MAKE THAT ALL SEEM, UM, AS LIKE KIND OF ONE LARGER PROJECT.
UM, AND THEN WHEN WE WERE HERE LAST TIME, WE JUST SAID, HEY, WE COME WITH KIND OF LIKE A THIRD POTENTIAL OPTION.
THIS REALLY IS VERY SIMILAR TO OPTION NUMBER TWO ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
IF FOR SOME REASON THE TOWNSHIP SAID, HEY, WE DON'T WANT THAT MUCH RETAIL, WE'D LIKE LESS RETAIL, WE WOULD END UP PUTTING TOWN HOMES ON KIND OF THE RIGHT SIDE AS WELL.
THAT MEANS 292 HOMES AND BACK TO 45,000 SQUARE FEET OF RETAIL, WE THINK, AND WE THINK THE TOWNSHIP LIKES WOULD LIKE VERSION TWO BETTER OR WHAT WE CALL OPTION TWO, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY LESS UNITS, MORE RETAIL.
SO I WASN'T GONNA SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON THAT UNLESS SOMEBODY FELT VERY STRONGLY.
BUT OUR THOUGHT IS OPTION TWO IS PROBABLY OUR BEST, BEST OPTION AT THIS POINT.
SO THE LAST THING I'M GONNA KIND OF TOUCH ON, UM, AND THEN I'LL TURN IT OVER TO JOHN TO TALK THROUGH KIND OF THE TRAFFIC AND THE FISCAL AND ALL THE SCHOOL AGE, UH, INFO.
BUT ONE OF THE, UM, COMMENTS IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHICH I'LL JUST GONNA READ, IT SAID, A BROAD CROSS SECTION OF PRICING WILL ALLOW FOR ENTRY LEVEL FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS, FAMILIES AND EMPTY NESTERS TO HAVE A PLACE TO ACCOMMODATE CHANGES IN LIFESTYLE ECONOMICS AND HOUSING NEEDS WITHOUT MOVING OUT OF THE TOWNSHIP.
SO WE SPENT A LITTLE TIME ON THE HOUSING THE LAST TIME, BUT WE DIDN'T SPEND A TON OF TIME ON THE HOUSING.
AND WHEN I TALKED TO OUR GROUP AND, AND JUST KIND OF BEING LIKE, FULL DISCLOSURE, UPPER PROVINCE IS A GREAT TOWNSHIP, A LOT OF PEOPLE WANNA LIVE HERE.
YOU CAN PUT A LOT OF DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES HERE AND IT WOULD DO WELL.
YOU JUST HAVE TO FIGURE OUT LIKE WHAT'S THE RIGHT ONE THAT WORKS FOR YOU THAT'LL WORK FOR THE NEIGHBORS THAT OBVIOUSLY ULTIMATELY WORKS FOR THE LAND SELLER AND TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT HOPEFULLY WORKS FOR EVERYBODY.
SO WHEN WE TALKED THROUGH PRODUCTS, THE FOUR THAT I THOUGHT ALL COULD WORK HERE, UM, JEFF, YOU MIGHT GO DOWN ONE MORE TIME, WAS WHAT WE CALL A THREE OR FOUR STORY STACKED TOWN HOME.
SO WITH A STACKED TOWN HOME, THEY'RE EITHER THREE OR FOUR STORIES.
THERE'S TWO HOMES PER BUILDING.
UM, SO THE FIRST UNIT IS KIND OF THE FIRST TWO FLOORS AND THEN THE SECOND UNIT IS DIRECTLY ABOVE IT.
IT CAN EITHER BE THE SECOND AND THIRD FLOOR, IT COULD BE THE THIRD OR FOURTH FLOOR IF ANYONE, BECAUSE SAT DOWNS ARE, I WOULDN'T SAY NEW, BUT THEY'RE NEWER, ESPECIALLY IN THIS AREA.
UM, I HAVE SOME FLOOR PLANS THAT I COULD SHOW YOU AT THE END IF YOU WANT TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND KINDA HOW IT WORKS.
BUT USUALLY THE LOWER UNITS, TWO BEDROOMS, THE UPPER UNITS, THREE BEDROOMS, THEY'RE NOT GIANT, THEY'RE ROUGHLY 1600 SQUARE FEET TO 2150 SQUARE
[00:30:01]
FEET.WE WOULD EXPECT THAT THE AVERAGE SALES PRICE OF OUR STACK TOWN WOULD BE ROUGHLY 460,000.
THEY WOULD'VE ONE CAR GARAGES.
UM, I EACH, EACH WOULD'VE ONE CAR GARAGE EACH WOULD'VE ONE.
SO BECAUSE IT'S 24 BY 50, IT'S EACH ONE CAR GARAGE IN THE BACK ALMOST LIKE A TWO STORY TOWN.
AND LIKE I SAID, MAYBE I'LL THROW THE 4 MILLION UP AT THE END SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE HOW IT ALL ALL WORKS.
UM, THIS IS PRIMARILY WHAT WE CONSIDER OUR ENTRY LEVEL FIRST TIME HOME BUYER.
YOU MIGHT GET SOME, UM, YOU KNOW, SOME SINGLES THAT COULD BE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, 35 AND AND 45.
BUT HISTORICALLY IT'S, IT'S KIND OF THAT ENTRY LEVEL FIRST TIME HOME BUYER.
I JUST HEARD SOMETHING THE OTHER DAY THE NHP CAME OUT WITH IN 2025.
THE AVERAGE AGE OF A FIRST TIME HOME BUYER IS 35, 10 YEARS AGO THAT WAS LIKE 28.
SO A LOT OF DIFFERENT REASONS.
PRICING, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE GET MARRIED LATER, ALL THE OTHER STUFF.
BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LOOKED AT IT, YOU KNOW, OUR SALES REP SAYS, OKAY, LIKE, WHAT'S THE MONTHLY PAYMENT? LIKE FOUR 60 SOUNDS GREAT, BUT WHEN INTEREST RATES ARE AT SIX AND THREE QUARTERS PERCENT, I HAVE TO PUT 20% DOWN.
AND A LOT OF TIMES THAT MIGHT BE COMING FROM A PARENT OR A GIFT OR SOMETHING ELSE.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S REALLY AFFORDABLE.
SO A A ROUGHLY, UM, MONTHLY PAYMENT, WHICH IS TAXES MONTHLY, HOA FEE, EVERYTHING TO, TO LIVE IN ONE OF THESE UNITS, YOU'RE PROBABLY SPENDING $3,200 A MONTH TO LIVE THERE.
UM, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT'S THE HEIGHT OF THESE DEBT UNITS? SO, UH, ANYWHERE FROM 35 TO LIKE 43, UM, FEET HIGH.
WHAT, WHAT'S, WELL, 35 IS OUR TYPICAL RESIDENTIAL, BUT WE'RE WRITING A ZONING ORDINANCE FROM SCRATCH FOR THIS.
SO SAY TO DO WHAT? WELL, WE'D BE WRITING A ZONING ORDINANCE FROM SCRATCH ESSENTIALLY TO DO THIS.
SO IF THAT'S THE PRODUCT THAT WE AGREE THAT THEY COULD PUT THERE, THAT WOULD BE THE HEIGHT.
OUR, OUR ORDINANCE ALLOWS FOR 35 FEET FOR, I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK, I I MAYBE IT'S DIFFERENT FOR THE STACK TOWNHOUSES WE JUST APPROVED RIGHT OVER THERE.
IT COULD BE DIFFERENT FOR THAT.
I, I DON'T REMEMBER THAT KIND OF DETAIL.
I, WHAT, UH, WHAT, WHO'S FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE GUYS? JOE, WHO, WHO IS, UH, WHO I, I KNOW YOU SAID S 35, THE SECOND, THIS SECOND AND, UH, THIRD, FOURTH FLOOR.
I, I, I FIND THAT HARD TO BELIEVE SOMEBODY GO WANT TO CARRY GROCERIES AND, YOU KNOW, PACKAGES UP THERE.
I MEAN IT'S, THAT'S A LOT OF STAIRS.
SO I DID MY FIRST STACK TOWN NEIGHBOR IN URBANA, MARYLAND IN 1999 AND BACK THEN SAT TIMES, BUT IT WAS MORE OF AN AFFORDABILITY BECAUSE IT, IT GOT YOU TO A, A LOWER PRICE POINT.
IT WAS LOWER THAN THE TOWN HOMES.
AND WHAT HAPPENS IS ONCE YOU HAVE A STROLLER, YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO THE SECOND FLOOR.
BUT ANYONE THAT'S JUST MARRIED, UM, YOU KNOW, UNTIL YOU KIND OF HAVE YOUR FIRST KID.
NOW WE HAD PEOPLE WITH STROLLERS, BUT BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING UP TWO LEVELS OF STAIRS WITH YOUR GROCERIES, STROLLER, ANYTHING ELSE, YOU KNOW, USUALLY IT'S SOMEBODY YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT YOUNGER, UM, THAT'S OKAY WITH, WITH TAKING THE STEPS.
I JUST, I JUST, EVEN A YOUNGER PERSON, I DON'T SEE WHY THEY WOULD WANT TO DO THAT.
BUT I MEAN THAT YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE.
I DON'T, YEAH, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A CRITICISM.
IT'S MORE OF JUST, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO THAT.
AND IT'S ALMOST A LITTLE BIT KIND OF, YOU THINK OF WHETHER IT'S IN NEW YORK CITY OR PHILLY AND YOU KNOW, THESE WALKUPS WHETHER THEY'RE THREE, FOUR OR FIVE STORIES.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS MY TWENTIES I LIVED IN DC AND LIVED ON THE FOURTH FLOOR AND WALKED UP THE STAFFS.
AND SO IT'S MORE OF A LIFESTYLE.
THE WIND HERE WITH THAT KIND OF MIXED USE IS BECAUSE YOU'RE KIND OF TRADING THE LOCATION AND MAYBE THE, THE COMPROMISE OF HAVING TO WALK UP SOME STEPS, BUT HAVING EVERYTHING SO CONVENIENT THAT YOU COULD PARK YOUR CAR ON A FRIDAY NIGHT AND WALK TO SOME THINGS AND JUMP ON SOME TRAILS AND SEE A BUNCH OF STUFF.
TRADE OFF THAT, AND MAYBE YOU'VE GIVEN THAT, SO YOU'RE SAYING IT'S A, IT'S A TAKEOFF, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A TAKEOFF.
PLUS YOU GET, DO A LITTLE LOWER PRICE POINT, WHICH YOU'LL SEE WHEN I SHOW YOU THE TOWNS.
SIX, SEVEN, RIGHT? IT'S A SIX, IT'S A SIX SEVEN FOR SURE.
SO THEN YOU GO KIND OF THE THREE STORY TOWNS, WHICH IS MORE YOUR TRADITIONAL, WHICH WHAT YOU SEE, YOU KNOW, ALL OVER KIND OF THE PHILADELPHIA SUBURBS, BUT THEN YOUR THREE BEDROOMS, TWO AND A HALF TO THREE BATHROOMS. NOW YOU'RE 2200 TO 27 50 SQUARE FEET, YOU HAVE OPTIONAL ROOF DECKS.
FROM A LIFESTYLE STANDPOINT, WE EXPECT AVERAGE SALES PRICE OF THESE BEING CLOSER TO 585,000.
NOW YOU GO FROM THE ONE CAR GARAGE, NOW YOU GO UP TO THE TWO CAR GARAGES, YOU'RE STILL GONNA HAVE FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOME YOUNG FAMILIES.
UM, AND THEN YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOME, I PUT SINGLES, BUT WHETHER IT'S DIVORCED, UH, WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY IN THEIR LATE THIRTIES, EARLY FORTIES THAT HASN'T MARRIED YET.
UM, SO I BUILT THOUSANDS OF TOWN HOMES BETWEEN WASHINGTON DC AND THE PHILLY SUBURBS OVER THE LAST 25 YEARS.
WORKS FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT BUYERS.
ONCE YOU GET TO A CERTAIN AGE, OBVIOUSLY THE THREE STORY TOWN AND THE STEPS KINDA THE SAME THING 'CAUSE YOU'RE WALKING WITH THE BEDROOMS, BUT, UM,
[00:35:01]
IT'S A GET GREAT PRODUCT.NOW IN TODAY'S MARKET, 20% DOWN SIX AND THREE QUARTER INTEREST RATE, THAT'S A 4,000, YOU KNOW, 59 PAYMENT A MONTH.
SO KIND OF SAME THING NOW WE'RE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF ITCHING UP A LITTLE BIT FROM THE 3,200 UP TO THE 4,000.
UH, NEXT UP ARE WHAT WE CALL KIND OF A TWO STORY TWIN, UM, TOWN HOME.
WE MAKE 'EM, THEY LOOK LIKE SINGLE FAMILIES.
UM, THERE WOULD BE TWO OF THESE ATTACHED.
NOW YOU'RE GOING FROM, YOU KNOW, THREE OR FOUR BEDROOMS, SAME THING, TWO AND A HALF TO THREE AND A HALF BATHROOMS, 26 50 TO 2000 THOUSAND 850 SQUARE FEET, OPTIONAL, FINISHED BASEMENT, AVERAGE SALES PRICE CLOSER TO 725,000, TWO CAR GARAGES.
FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS, UM, SINGLE, UH, OLDER ADULTS.
AND THEN, THEN YOU GET DOWN TO THAT MOVE DOWN BUYER, KIND OF THE EMPTY NESTER THAT THEY TALKED ABOUT A LOT ON THE PLAN.
HERE YOU'RE LOOKING AT YOUR ESTIMATED MONTHLY PAYMENT CLOSER TO LIKE $5,000 A MONTH.
SO NOW YOU'RE KIND OF RATCHET UP.
WHAT I WILL TELL YOU IS THE TWINS IN THE PHILLY SUBURBS NOW ARE SUPER POPULAR BECAUSE YOU GET TWO STORY LIVING.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE ALL THE STEPS, YOU GET OPTION TO FINISH OFF YOUR BASEMENT, WHICH GETS YOU A LOT OF EXTRA SQUARE FOOTAGE.
OUR HOMES LIVE LIKE A SINGLE FAMILY.
IF YOU LOOK AT WITHIN A MILE OF OUR SITE, WB DID A NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, TOLL BROTHERS DID A NEIGHBORHOOD.
I KNOW TOLL BROTHERS IS THE OTHER SIDE OF MAIN STREET DOING THEIR NEW NEIGHBORHOOD.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT KIND OF WHAT WB AND TOLL DONE, I MEAN, AVERAGE SALE PRICES OF THOSE HOUSES ARE ANYWHERE FROM LIKE A MILLION TO UP UNTIL LIKE 1000006.7.
WE'VE HEARD IT COMPLETELY, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU CAN GET SOME GOOD SQUARE FOOTAGE.
MAYBE YOU CAN'T QUITE AFFORD THAT SINGLE FAMILY YET, BUT NOW YOU CAN GET KIND OF THESE TWIN, YOU ONLY HAVE SOMEBODY ON ONE SIDE, SO YOU GET A LITTLE BIT MORE PRIVACY.
IT, IT JUST IS A REALLY GOOD PRODUCT.
ANYWHERE WE'VE BUILT IT HAVE ALWAYS DONE REALLY WELL AND CUSTOMERS ALWAYS REALLY LIKE IT.
SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, THAT'S THE TWIN.
AND THEN THE LAST ONE WE HAD PROPOSED WAS OUR ACTIVE ADULT, WHICH THIS WOULD BE ONLY FOR 55 ODORS, BUT SAME THING, THREE BEDROOMS, TWO AND A HALF TO THREE AND A HALF BATHROOMS. NOW YOU'RE 2,650 SQUARE FEET UP TO 3,200 SQUARE FEET.
MOST OF THE LIVING THAT WAS ON THE FIRST FLOOR, UH, OPTIONAL FINISHED BASEMENTS, WE'D EXPECT THE AVERAGE SALES PRICE TO BE 825,002 CAR GARAGES.
UH, HERE YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ALL MOVED DOWN.
EVERYBODY THAT WANTS TO STAY CLOSER TO THEIR KIDS AND THE GRANDKIDS.
AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS EVERYBODY THAT'S MOVED AWAY AND WENT SOUTH, NOT EVERYBODY, BUT A LOT OF OUR BUYERS, SO THIS IS OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IN BLUEBELL, WHICH WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL.
WE PROBABLY SOLD FOUR OR FIVE A MONTH FOR, YOU KNOW, CLOSE TO 12 MONTHS.
SO WE WERE SOLD OUT AND WE PROBABLY COULD HAVE SOLD SEVEN OR EIGHT EVERY MONTH, BUT WE JUST CAN'T BUILD 'EM THAT QUICK.
SO WE WERE KIND OF THAT FOUR TO FIVE A MONTH, BUT A LOT OF OUR BUYERS IN THERE ENDED UP BEING PEOPLE THAT HAD RELOCATED AND THEN HAD COME BACK OR HAD SOLD A BIGGER HOUSE.
AND, BUT, SO IT'S KIND OF THE SAME THING.
IT'S THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POPULATION TRENDS AND WHAT'S KIND OF PUT ON IN OTHER PROFITS, UM, FROM THAT STANDPOINT, WE THOUGHT THE, UM, ACTIVE ADULT BRINGING THE ACTIVE ADULT COMPONENT INTO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, WOULD MAKE A LOT OF SENSE.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PLANS OR THE HOUSE TYPES BEFORE I TURN IT OVER TO JOHN TO KIND OF GET INTO THE GOOD STUFF? NICE JOB.
GOOD EVENING, JOHN
UM, SO ONE OF THE ITEMS WE WERE ASKED TO COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT WAS SCHOOL IMPACTS.
SO, UH, FORTUNATE FOR US, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, JUST LIKE WE HAD THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OF THE TOWNSHIP, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS DONE A BUNCH OF COMPREHENSIVE STUDIES OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.
UM, THEY DID, UH, TO ANALYZE THEIR CAPACITY, THEIR REQUIRED IMPROVEMENTS, THEIR CURRENT FACILITIES AND FUTURE PLANNING.
UM, ONE OF THE STUDIES WAS DONE BY GKO ARCHITECTS.
IT WAS A FEASIBILITY STUDY, UM, TO SEE THE CONDITION OF THE EXISTING FACILITIES, WHAT IMPROVEMENTS WERE NEEDED AND WHAT WAS NEEDED TO KEEP UP WITH THE SUSTAINABILITY, THE POPULATION GROWTH COMING AND EVERYTHING OF THAT NATURE.
UM, SECOND WAS DONE BY SUNDANCE CONSULTANTS.
THAT WAS MORE IN ENROLLMENT AND PROJECTION OF, UH, SCHOOL CHILDREN THAT WERE NEEDED TO BE SERVED IN THE COMMUNITY MOVING FORWARD.
SO SIMILAR TO COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, SORT OF THE ANSWER SHEET FOR US, UM, IN ALL, IN ALL POSITIVE RESULTS, UM, IT DID FOCUS ON A FEW THINGS.
ENROLLMENT, UM, WAS FIRST, SO BASED OFF THE 2024 NUMBERS WAS EVERYTHING.
THE STUDIES WERE BASED OFF OF.
UM, THEY HAD 8,092, UH, CHILDREN ENROLLED.
THAT'S K THROUGH 12, UM, WITH THEIR DIS THEIR DISTRICT PRACTICE CAPACITY THEY CALL IT, WHICH IS REALLY THE PROJECTED ENROLLMENT WITH GROWTH, SUSTAINABILITY AND CHANGES.
UM, THEY WERE EXPECTING 10,754.
UM, SO THEY WERE, THE AVERAGE PROJECTED ENROLLMENT WAS BELOW CAPACITY BY ABOUT 2,400, UM, SHOWING THAT THERE WAS PLENTY OF, UH, AREA IN THE SCHOOLS AT THE CURRENT TIME AND WITH THE IMPROVEMENTS THEY HAD PLANNED.
THE NEXT WAS, UM, POPULATION DEMOGRAPHICS,
[00:40:01]
HOUSING SUPPLY AND HOUSING STOCK.UM, WHAT REALLY YIELDED WAS THEY WERE SEEING A DECLINE IN PRESCHOOL AND ELEMENTARY SCHOOL CHILDREN AND AN INCREASE IN MIDDLE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL CHILDREN.
UM, THIS WAS A RESULT OF THE AGING POPULATION WITH AN INCREASED MEDIAN AGE AND ALSO ELDERLY POPULATION, WHICH IS DRIVING THE YOUNGER SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN DOWN.
UM, THIS IS GREAT, ESPECIALLY FOR THIS PRODUCT.
AS JOE JUST MENTIONED, WITH A LOT OF THE PRODUCT, PRODUCT, WE HAD A LOT OF 'EM WITH THE STACK TOWNS.
THE AGE DISTRICT OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T HAVE SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN, BUT THE OTHER PRODUCTS PRODUCT ARE GEARED AT YOUNGER FAMILIES, FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS, THINGS OF THAT, WHICH REALLY IS WHERE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS LACKING THE, OR HAS A, HAS A LOWER DEMAND FOR THE CHILDREN.
UH, THE NEXT IS THE UTILIZATION OF THE SCHOOLS THAT THEY REALLY FOCUSED ON.
UM, THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE ABOUT 80 TO 85% UTILIZED, AND THAT'S TO SUSTAIN GROWTH AS WELL.
UM, THERE IS SOME REBALANCING THAT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE.
THERE IS SOME REBALANCING THAT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE.
UM, BUT RIGHT NOW, EVANS ELEMENTARY, UH, SCHOOL IS THE SCHOOL THAT THIS PROJECT WOULD BE FEEDING.
UM, SOME OF THE SCHOOLS ARE AS LOW AS, UH, 62% UTILIZED AND THAT THE HIGHEST IS IS 94.
UM, SO THESE STUDIES ALL PROVE THAT THE, THE, THE SCHOOLS RIGHT NOW THEY CAN HANDLE IT.
AND WITH THE FUTURE THAT THEY'RE PLANNING AND THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT THEY HAVE PLANNED THERE, THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY ISSUES.
UM, WE DID HIRE A FISCAL, UM, PLANNER OURSELVES JUST TO CHECK THE DATA AND ALSO TIE INTO THE FISCAL.
UM, IT WAS ERIC HARTZEL, AN A ICP, UM, HIS RESULTS, IF YOU COULD SCROLL BACK ONE MORE, SORRY.
UM, HIS RESULTS ARE ABOUT TWICE AS HIGH AS THE SCHOOL'S RESULTS, BUT WE JUST WANTED TO SORT OF A FACT FACT CHECK.
UM, SO WITH OPTION ONE AND OPTION TWO HERE, YOU CAN SEE THIS, EITHER ONE OF THOSE OPTIONS WOULD ADD ANYWHERE BETWEEN 57 TO 64 AND HAVE IT BROKEN DOWN, UM, BY THE PRODUCT TYPES.
YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE CHILDREN ARE COMING FROM.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE CHILDREN PER HOME AT 0.29 TO 0.44, THAT'S WELL ABOVE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.
I THINK OUR, OUR, UH, FISCAL PLANNER IN THE STUDY WAS VERY CONSERVATIVE.
UM, AND LIKE I SAID, IT'S ALSO ABOUT DOUBLE WHAT THE SCHOOL WAS PREDICTING.
UM, TYPICALLY THE ACTUALS AROUND 0.25 CHILDREN PER HOME, SO EVEN AT THE HIGH END OF 57 TO 64, THE SCHOOL CAN STILL HANDLE THAT.
UM, WHICH, WHICH IS A GOOD THING HERE.
UM, SO INCLUSION WITH THE SCHOOLS THEY CAN CURRENTLY AND A PLAN TO ACCOMMODATE THIS GROWTH AS WELL AS OTHER FUTURE GROWTH.
UM, AND THEN THE, RIGHT NOW IF YOU, IF YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE MIGHT SAY THAT THE SCHOOLS CAN'T HANDLE IT, THERE ARE SOME OLDER FACILITIES IN THE SCHOOL, THEY DO NEED RENOVATIONS.
THERE IS IMPROVEMENTS THAT NEED TO BE DONE, BUT THEY'RE NOT IMPROVEMENTS THAT NEED TO BE DONE BECAUSE OF THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN.
UM, THIS, THE SCHOOL, THE FISCAL IMPACT, UM, AGAIN, ERIC HAREL DID THIS FOR US.
UM, AND THE WAY WE BREAK THIS DOWN IS WE SHOW THE NET FISCAL IMPACT.
SO WE TAKE THE OVERALL, UM, REVENUES, TAXES, EVERYTHING GENERATED BY THE COMMUNITY, THEN WE TAKE OUT ALL THE COSTS FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, EDUCATE THE SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN, ALL THE COSTS FOR THE, THE TOWNSHIP AND THE STATE SERVICES.
UM, AND THEN WE GET TO THE NET FISCAL IMPACT.
SO THE RESIDENTIAL HAS A NET FIXED FISCAL IMPACT OF 831,000 EVERY YEAR TO THE TOWNSHIP AND SCHOOL COMBINED.
UM, SO A TOTAL NET FISCAL IMPACT IS JUST UNDER A MILLION DOLLARS EVERY YEAR.
THIS DOESN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE ONE TIME TRANSFER TAX AND THE RECURRING TRANSFER TAX WHEN THE UNITS OF RESOLD.
SO THERE'S ANOTHER, ABOUT ANOTHER MILLION DOLLARS OUT FRONT IN THE, IN THE FIRST YEARS OF SALES.
ALSO THE OTHER INCOME GENERATED FROM CONSTRUCTION AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
UM, OUR HOMEOWNERS ARE GONNA GENERATE REVENUE FOR THE LOCAL BUSINESSES.
THEY, THEY SHOP LOCAL, THEY DINE LOCAL, THEY UTILIZE THE DOCTORS AND OTHER LOCAL SERVICES.
UM, ADDITIONAL HOMEOWNERS ALSO IN THE ROOFTOPS THAT THIS COULD PROVIDE, NOT, NOT ONLY SUSTAIN THE EXISTING RETAILS ON THE CORRIDOR, BUT IT'S GONNA ALSO HELP PROMOTE FUTURE RETAIL GROWTH.
UM, JOE MENTIONED BEFORE, LIKE HOPEFULLY THIS PROJECT CAN BE A CATALYST TO KEEP THE TREND ON MAJOR STREET GOING EAST AND PROVIDE ADDITIONAL COMMERCIAL AND RETAIL AND, AND ROOFTOPS DRIVES COMMERCIAL.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S ALWAYS A GOOD THING.
UM, TRAFFIC, WE DID HIRE PENONI, UM, WHO'S A LARGE TRAFFIC ENGINEER IN THE AREA.
UM, BRIAN KE HAD DOES A STUDY FOR US, UM, AND WE REALLY WANTED TO FOCUS ON WHAT IMPROVEMENTS WILL BE NEEDED TO HANDLE THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT ON RIDGE BIKE SPECIFICALLY.
UM, IF YOU COULD GO BACK TO THE PLAN, JEFF, I'M SORRY, IT'S A BUNCH OF PAGES BACK.
MR. PETERS, I KNOW YOU'RE, WE'RE FOCUSING ON THIS BEFORE, SO I'LL DO THE BEST TO ANSWER AND THEN YOU CAN FIRE THE QUESTIONS AWAY.
UM, SO THE WARRANTS, I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH PENNDOT, IS EVEN IF THE TOWNSHIP OR ELSE WANTED TO PUT IN TRAFFIC IMPROVEMENTS ON A PENNDOT ROAD, UM,
[00:45:01]
YOU HAVE TO MEET THE WARRANTS OF PENNDOT.UM, SO A LOT OF WHAT I'M GONNA SAY IS, IS DEPENDENT ON WHAT THE WARRANTS WOULD ADDRESS, UM, OUT OF THE GATES.
WE KNOW THAT THIS, THIS AMOUNT OF RETAIL, THIS AMOUNT OF RESIDENTIAL IS GOING TO WARRANT A TRAFFIC LIGHT AT KLEIN ROAD AND RIDGE PIKE.
UM, CURRENTLY IT IS DOES NOT MEET THE WARRANTS FOR A TRAFFIC SIGNAL AT THE SECONDARY ENTRANCE.
UM, IT DOES MEET THE WARRANTS TO HAVE A DEDICATED LEFT TURN IN AT THIS ENTRANCE AND A DEDICATED LEFT TURN INTO THIS ENTRANCE.
IT DOES MEET THE WARRANTS TO HAVE, UH, DEDICATED D CELL RIGHT TURN LANE IN AT BOTH ENTRANCES.
UM, ONE OF THE OTHER, UH, KEY ITEMS THAT WE LOOKED AT WAS GREENWOOD RIDGE, WHICH IS THE NEXT INTERSECTION DOWN, WHICH IS A TRICKY INTERSECTION TOO, WAS SOME SITE DISTANCES BY THE CHURCH.
UM, RIGHT NOW THAT INTERSECTION IS ON THE BRINK OF MEETING THE WARRANTS, UM, FOR A TRAFFIC SIGNAL.
UH, WE WOULD HAVE TO DO A FULL BLOWN TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY THROUGH PENNDOT TO DETERMINE IF IT REALLY WOULD MEET IT, BUT THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE THAT IT, THIS DEVELOPMENT COULD PUSH THAT OVER FOR A TRAFFIC LIGHT THERE.
UM, ONE THING, BRIDGE PIKE DOES HAVE A LOT OF CONGESTION, BUT IT DOES HAVE A LOT OF IMPROVEMENTS WE FEEL LIKE, AND THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER FEELS LIKE ANY, UH, DEGRADATION OF SERVICE THAT WOULD COME FROM THIS DEVELOPMENT COULD BE HANDLED WITH THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE.
THERE'D PROBABLY BE SOME RETIMING OF SIGNALS DOWN THROUGH THE CORRIDOR THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED, BUT WE THINK THAT WOULD HANDLE ALL THE TRAFFIC AND ANY NEGATIVE IMPACTS.
SO THERE'D BE NO DEGRADATION OF SERVICE.
IT'S EARLY, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU KIND OF AGREE WITH THIS ASSESSMENT THUS FAR.
I MEAN, KNOWDO.IS A WHOLE NOTHER ISSUE, BUT, WELL, YEAH, I MEAN CERTAINLY HE'S CHARACTERIZED THE RIGHT THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE LOOKING FOR ACCESS OUT TO RIDGE PIKE.
UM, THAT'S GONNA REQUIRE HIM NOT INVOLVEMENT.
THEY'RE GONNA BE THE PRIMARY DRIVER REGARDING IMPROVEMENTS ALONG THE CORRIDOR.
UM, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE GOING THAT FAR, THEY'RE GONNA END UP WITH A FULL TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY WORKING WITH PENDOT WILL IDENTIFY THE SCOPE OF THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE EXTENDING FAR ENOUGH EAST AND WEST TO, TO CAPTURE THAT IMPACT.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I'VE WORKED WITH BRIAN BEFORE, UH, FROM POONE, YOU KNOW, ASIDE FROM DATA THAT I CAN ACTUALLY REVIEW, UM, I HAVE NO REASON TO DOUBT WHAT, WHAT THEIR, THEIR CONCLUSION, YOU KNOW, THE CONCEPTS AND THE, UH, ASSUMPTIONS ARE VALID AND REASONABLE AND WHO KNOWS WHAT
BUT YEAH, I MEAN I THINK A DEVELOPMENT OF THIS SIZE, I WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE EXPECTED THE, THE SAME TYPE OF CONCLUSIONS THAT WE'RE GONNA NEED LEFT TURN LANES AND RIGHT TURN LANES ALONG RIDGE PIKE TO, UH, TO SUPPORT ENTERING TRAFFIC.
UM, HAVING AT LEAST ONE OF THE, THE ACCESS POINTS BEING SIGNALED TO PROVIDE, UH, ESPECIALLY IN EGRESS TO BE ABLE TO TURN LEFT TO GO EAST, UH, IS GONNA BE IMPORTANT.
IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT, I'D BE WORRIED BECAUSE THEN ALL OF YOUR LEFT TURNING TRAFFIC IS EITHER TRYING TO DO THAT UNSIGNED OR, UM, YOU KNOW, GOING THROUGH THE LIDLE SHOPPING CENTER AND HAVING TO USE THAT LIGHT, WHICH WOULD BE GOOD.
SO, AND WE RAN IN ONE THANK THANK YOU BRIAN.
UH, WE DO HAVE THE CONNECTIVITY TO THE LIGHTLE SHOPPING CENTER.
UM, WE, WE SORT OF BACKED THE NUMBERS OUT IN THERE TO RUN OUR ANALYSIS TO, TO NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE CROSS TRAFFIC.
SO IF THEY'RE ONLY GONNA GET BETTER, WE SORT OF RAN WORST CASE ASSUMING THAT NO ONE WOULD USE THE LID.
BUT OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE ARE, IF THEY'RE GOING IN THAT DIRECTION, WHICH IS, WHICH IS THE RIGHT WHEN, RIGHT DECISION AT MY UNDERSTANDING, YOU HAVE TO DO IT ON A CONSERVATIVE BASIS.
WHEN DO YOU GET INVOLVED YOUR BRIAN, WHAT POINT OF THIS PROCESS ARE YOU GONNA GET INVOLVED? WELL, I THINK THAT COMES ONCE YOU'VE, ONCE THEY'VE GOTTEN PAST THE SUPERVISORS AS FAR AS A WILLINGNESS TO CONSIDER THE REZONING.
THAT'S WHEN, WHEN THINGS REALLY START ENGINEERING WISE GET DEPEND ON NEEDS TO START GETTING INVOLVED FROM THAT EARLY STANDPOINT.
AND WHEN WE SO YOU'VE HAD NO REAL INSIGHT ON THIS AT THIS POINT? NO, NOT AT THIS POINT.
JUST WHAT YOU'RE SEEING, LIKE WE CORRECT.
SO ONE OF OUR, OUR NEXT STEPS ONCE, AND BRIAN SAID IT RIGHT, IS ONCE IS A SUPERVISOR SORT OF, YOU KNOW, ARE ON BOARD WITH THE CONCEPT, WE WOULD FILE THE SCOPING APPLICATION WITH PENNDOT TO START WORKING THROUGH THAT AND THEN BRIAN'S GROUP WOULD GET INVOLVED THERE.
UM, ONE THING I DID FORGET TO MENTION TOO, AND I APOLOGIZE, THE TOWNSHIP DOES HAVE AN ACT 2 0 9 FEE.
UM, SO THIS WOULD PROBABLY GENERATE, UM, ABOUT $750,000 WORTH OF ACT 2 0 9 FEES.
UM, THAT COULD EITHER BE USED FOR THE IMPROVEMENTS FOR THIS OR, OR THROUGHOUT THE TOWNSHIP DEPENDING ON WHAT THE STUDY PRO PROVIDES.
UM, SO THERE ARE SOME OTHER BENEFITS AND YOU KNOW, IF THE, IF THE LIGHT AT GREENWOOD SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO THE TOWNSHIP BIRDS IN THE ACT TO PLAN, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD BE CONTRIBUTED TO THAT IF WE DON'T MEET THOSE WINES.
JEN, ANYTHING FOR YOU AT THIS POINT? NOT THIS POINT.
[00:50:01]
MORE SLIDE TO GO THROUGH JUST TO TIE IT ALL TOGETHER.AND THEN, AND TO KIND OF JUST FOLLOW KIND OF WITH WHAT JOHN SAID, WE, WE KNEW KIND OF GO, WE WERE JUST TRYING TO LIKE, HEY, GET A SKETCH PLAN TOGETHER.
ROUGH IDEA OF, OF WHERE THINGS COULD POTENTIALLY BE.
SEE IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION FELT OKAY ABOUT IT, IF YOU GUYS FELT OKAY ABOUT IT, GO AND PRESENT IT TO THE SUPERVISORS IF THEY FELT OKAY ABOUT IT, THEN POTENTIALLY, OBVIOUSLY START THE ENGINEERING.
BUT WE KNOW THIS IS LIKE FIRST INNING OF A, OF A BASEBALL GAME, BUT WE JUST WANT BE ABLE TO COME IN AND, AND KIND OF LOOK AT IT.
SO THE KIND OF THE CLOSING REMARKS AND THEN I'LL OPEN IT UP FOR QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, WHY DO WE FEEL THAT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD FITS KIND OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
AND YOU HAVE A PROPERTY THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE PIECE OF IT IS KIND OF SAT DORMANT FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR 38 YEARS.
AND AS YOU DRIVE ALONG RIDGE PIKE, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT HASN'T BEEN KIND OF ATTENDED TO.
AND WE REALLY DO FEEL LIKE THIS COULD BE KIND OF THE, THE GATEWAY TO REALLY MAKE THIS PART OF THE TOWNSHIP LOOK AND, AND FEEL REALLY GOOD.
BUT WE SAID AG DEVELOPMENT WHERE THE INFRASTRUCTURE ALREADY EXISTS, IT IS ALWAYS A GOOD THING.
IT'S NOT LIKE WE HAVE TO PUT IN A BUNCH OF ROADS WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE OFF A, A, A, A MAIN ROAD, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE MILES FROM 4 22.
UM, WE'RE ADDING A, A BROAD CROSS SECTION OF HOUSING FOR ENTRY LEVEL FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS FAMILIES, AND EMPTY NESTERS.
AND LIKE I SAID, THIS IS SO EARLY IN THE PROCESS, WE COULD MIX AND CHANGE AND ADJUST BASED ON WHATEVER THE TOWNSHIP FEELS LIKE, WHAT THEY NEED FOR THEIR, YOU KNOW, THEIR FUTURE HOMEOWNERS OVER THE NEXT, YOU KNOW, 5, 10, 15, 20 YEARS.
UM, WE'RE KEEPING ALL THE COMMERCIAL ALONG MAIN STREET, WHICH I THINK IS IMPORTANT FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT LEVELS.
UM, THE RESIDENTIAL TRANSITIONS TO EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS.
SO THE OTHER PART OF THIS IS IF THE SUPERVISORS, ONCE YOU GUYS SAY WE LIKE IT AND THE SUPERVISORS SAY THEY LIKE IT, WE'LL START ALL THE NEIGHBOR MEETINGS BECAUSE BEFORE WE EVER GO TO A PUBLIC MEETING, NOT A TRUE PUBLIC MEETING, AT THAT POINT, WE TRY TO MEET WITH ALL THE NEIGHBORS AND KIND OF GET SOME OF THEIR ISSUES WORKED OUT.
BECAUSE WHAT I DID SAY IN THERE, THERE IS SOME RESIDENTIAL ZONING ON THE BACK LEFT CORNER UP AGAINST THE SINGLES WHERE YOU TECHNICALLY COULD GET 10 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS.
WE WEREN'T PLANNING ON DOING THAT.
WE WOULD JUST USE THAT AS OPEN SPACE PARK, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THAT DECIDES TO BE.
BUT, UM, SO WE WOULD SIT DOWN WITH ALL THE NEIGHBORS BEFORE WE'D BE BACK IN FRONT YOU GUYS TOGETHER.
SO YOU STILL OWN THAT PROPERTY, BUT YOU HAVE NO, UH, EXPECTATIONS THIS POINT TO DEVELOP.
SO YOU WOULD SAY WHAT YOU WOULD GIVE IT BACK TO THE TOWNSHIP OR THE PARK OR NO, PART OF THE HOA LET THEM MAINTAIN IT.
PROBABLY BETTER FOR THE TOWNSHIP IF SOMEONE ELSE IS PAYING FOR IT.
AND, AND, WELL, I DON'T DISAGREE.
WONDER, I JUST WANTED TO HEAR WHAT YOU WERE SAYING.
SO YOU'RE THINKING THE HOA WILL MAINTAIN IT, HOA, MAINTAIN IT, MOW IT, AND DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH IT.
SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, UM, THE INTERNAL ROADWAY NETWORK, CONNECTING THE THREE LARGE PARCELS, PLUS THE RETAIL AND BEING ABLE TO TIE ALL THAT STUFF IN, PLUS THE TRAILS, KEEP IT GOING IN A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.
I DO REALLY THINK YOU COULD DO SOME REALLY QUICK THINGS AND CONNECT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THROUGH THIS.
THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, JOHN, THAT YOU JUST BROUGHT UP THERE.
THE ROAD'S GOING THROUGH THE, UH, RIGHT OF WAY, THE PEOPLE RIGHT OF WAY.
UM, SO OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE TO GET THEM INVOLVED.
AND THEY HAVE TO APPROVE WHATEVER THEY DO, THEIR PROCESS, WHAT HAPPENS, GOD FORBID, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING HAPPENS WHERE THEY HAVE TO SHUT THAT ROAD DOWN BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DO SOME WORK IN THERE.
HAS THAT EVER HAPPENED? HAVE YOU SEEN THAT? I, I'M NOT SAYING I HAVE, I'M ASKING, I'M ASKING FOR THAT TYPE OF FEEDBACK.
TY, TYPICALLY THEY LIKE THOSE, UH, ROADS THAT GO ACROSS.
THEY MAKE YOU CROSS AT THE MOST PERPENDICULAR ANGLE THAT YOU CAN.
UM, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT YOU, THEY DON'T WANNA HAVE TO WORK ALONG THE ROAD, AS YOU MENTIONED.
TYPICALLY, IF IT'S LIKE THAT AND YOU'RE PERPENDICULAR, THEY CAN WORK FROM EITHER SIDE AND NOT SHUT THE ROAD DOWN COMPLETELY.
UM, WE'VE DONE SEVERAL OF THESE.
I'VE NEVER SEEN YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH, THEY'VE EVER HAD TO SHUT A ROAD DOWN 'CAUSE OF, UH, YOU KNOW, POWER LINES FELL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
NO, THE GOOD NEWS IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE TWO ACCESSES, IF THEY EVER DID, GOD FORBID YOU, YOU'D ALWAYS HAVE ACCESS, YOU KNOW, OR EXIT TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT.
I JUST WONDERED, I JUST THOUGHT OF THAT WHEN YOU WERE TALKING.
UM, AND WE JUST KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THE MIXED USE, WALKABLE DEVELOPMENT CONSISTENT WITH THE TOWNSHIP COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UH, COMMUNITY TRAIL, SIDEWALK, EVERYTHING THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT.
AND THEN THE LAST THING, WHICH IS KIND OF THE CATALYST OF WHAT COULD POTENTIALLY BECOME OF THAT MAIN STREET CORRIDOR, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN TRAP AND THEN UP TO, UH, TILLER TOWNSHIP.
SO THAT WAS, UH, THAT WAS OUR PRESENTATION.
SO I'LL, UH, I'LL OPEN UP ANY QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE.
I MEAN, I, I THINK IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A GOOD PLAN.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I, I STILL, I'M NOT SURE IF I LIKE ONE OR TWO OR I'M NOT SURE, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT ALL THAT.
BUT I MEAN, I THINK YOU GUYS DONE A NICE JOB OF PUTTING SOMETHING TOGETHER THAT YOU DEVELOPS THAT PROPERTY THERE, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THAT PROPERTY FOR A LONG TIME AND, UH, YOU KNOW, ONE OF OUR GOALS IS MAYBE TRY TO PROTECT IT, BUT, UH, I'M NOT SURE THAT WAS FEASIBLE IN THE LONG.
SO, UM, UH, SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE AT THIS POINT.
[00:55:01]
I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.UH, ANYBODY ELSE? I'LL ECHO UH, TOM, SOME OF YOUR THOUGHTS.
I MEAN, I THINK THIS PLAN IS A, UH, AN IMPROVEMENT OF WHAT WE SAW BEFORE, NUMBER TWO.
AND, AND, YOU KNOW, I APPLAUD YOU FOR RESPONDING TO, TO THE COMMENTS.
UM, YOU KNOW, UH, AND I THINK, UH, IN GENERAL, I, IT, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'VE DONE, YOU'VE MADE A, YOU KNOW, A GREAT ATTEMPT TO BE IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE COMP PLAN.
UH, SO, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF POSITIVES I HEARD, UH, ABOUT YOUR INTENT AND THE WAY THIS PLAN COULD GO.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S STILL, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE DETAILS, THERE'S TRAFFIC, THERE'S THINGS TO LOOK AT.
UM, THE, THE MIX OF HOUSES, UH, YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU SAID, I THINK ONE OF THE, WAS IT MAYBE THE THREE STORIES IS THE SAME FOOTPRINT AS THE OTHER? YOU COULD TRADE OFF IF, IF THE MIX, IF EXACTLY.
SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE BOTH, WHETHER YOU DO A, A SNACK TOWN OR A THREE STORY TOWN, THEY'RE LIKE 24 WIDE BY 50.
SO IF WE SAID, HEY, WE WANNA DO A A MIXTURE OF 'EM, WE COULD EASILY YEAH.
I, I THINK THE, THE MIX OF HOUSING TYPES IS A, IS A GREAT THING.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'VE SORT OF HAD IN THE COMP PLAN THAT'S BEEN BEEN TALKED ABOUT.
UM, SO YEAH, I THINK FOR THIS POINT IN TIME, I, I I'M SUPPORTED BY, I THINK GOT A GOOD PLAN.
UH, OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE ALWAYS DETAILS TO BE WORKED OUT YEAH.
WHEN WITH AN EARLY PLAN, BUT FROM WHAT I SEE, I THINK IT'S THE POTENTIAL, UH, MAYBE OUTWEIGHS, UH, ANY OF THE POTENTIAL NEGATIVES THAT I BROUGHT UP.
TWO QUESTIONS FROM ME, WHAT YOU JUST SAID, JARED, ALL THREE OF THE OPTIONS, IF YOU TOOK ALL THREE OF THE OPTIONS, THEY'RE ALL, YOU WERE ALL CONSIDERING PUTTING THE, THROUGH THE ITEMS, RIGHT? ALL THREE OF THEM WOULD INCLUDE TO BE, WOULD INCLUDE THE THROUGHWAY, CORRECT? YEP.
NUMBER TWO IS, UM, UM, PERSONALLY MYSELF, I LIKE THE LOWER DENSITY.
SO THE FIRST OPTION IS 2 31, I BELIEVE.
UM, BUT THAT CAN BE, I GUESS, TALKED ABOUT IT GIVES YOU, FOR YOU GUYS, THE STACK GIVES YOU MORE SALES, RIGHT? IT'S, IT IS MORE ROOFTOPS.
IT'S KIND OF CRAZY WHEN YOU TALK TO THE, BECAUSE WE, WE'VE TALKED TO PROBABLY THREE DIFFERENT RETAIL, YOU KNOW, COMPANIES ABOUT, HEY, HOW WOULD YOU DESIGN IT? WHAT WOULD YOU DO? JUST TO GET SOME FEEDBACK.
SO WE HAVE SOMETHING KIND OF CLOSE TO WHAT POTENTIALLY COULD LOOK LIKE.
OBVIOUSLY THE MORE ROOFTOPS YOU HAVE, THE MORE PEOPLE YOU KNOW, THEY LIKE, UM, JUST THE MORE PEOPLE THEY LIKE.
SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, FROM A VALUE STANDPOINT, THE RETAIL, THE MORE RETAIL YOU HAVE, AND I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT LAST TIME, YOU KNOW, WITH COST TO BUILD FOR NEW BUILDINGS AND STUFF, RETAIL'S REALLY HARD TO MAKE WORK IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT.
NOT THAT IT ISN'T DONE, BUT IT'S, IT'S REALLY HARD, UM, WHATEVER RETAIL WE DO HERE, IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU HAVE TO, UH, BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE RESIDENTIAL TO OFFSET WHATEVER THE COST OF THE RETAIL, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
SO IF YOU HAVE THE OPTION ONE, UH, WHICH WAS YOUR ORIGINAL PLAN, BUT YOU HAVE 231 AND THEN YOU GOT OPTION TWO, WE HAVE TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY, FIFTY SIX FIFTY SIX.
WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE COST DIFFERENCE THERE? I MEAN, WE WOULD JUST SAY IF WE DID 231 UNITS, WE'D PROBABLY WANNA HAVE ABOUT 45,000 SQUARE FEET OF RETAIL.
IF WE NEEDED TO JUMP TO LIKE 60,000 SQUARE FEET OF RETAIL, WE'D PROBABLY NEED TO ADD THOSE ADDITIONAL 25 UNITS TO OFFSET SOME OF THE COSTS THAT THE ADDITIONAL RETAIL WOULD COST.
SO, BUT, SO THE ADDITIONAL RETAILS IN OPTION TWO YES.
SO YOU HAVE TO ADD HOUSING TO THAT.
SO IF WE WENT BACK TO OPTION 1, 231 HOUSES, THEN YOU HAD JUST LESS RETAIL? WE WOULD, WE'D PROBABLY SCALE BACK TO RETAIL.
THAT'S NOT A BAD COST, BUT THE, BUT THE RETAIL IS STILL ALL IN THE FRONT.
AND, AND, AND THERE ARE NO HOMES TO THE WEST OF THE SENIOR LIVING ADULT, WHICH I ADULT, WHICH I LIKE, IS THAT'S WHY I'M, THAT'S WHY I'M STILL NOT SURE IF I WANT TWO OR ONE.
IF I HAD TO PICK TODAY, I'M NOT SURE.
NOW I UNDERSTAND TWO IS BETTER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU SELL MORE.
BUT, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT JUDGES SAY, KEEPING THE, KEEPING THE, UM, STACKED TOWNHOUSES OR THREE STORY, WHATEVER ON THAT SIDE, ON THE WESTERN PART OF THE PROPERTY, IT LOOKS BETTER AND IT PROVIDES A LITTLE MORE OPEN SPACE, A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A BUFFER.
UM, I MEAN, SO, BUT YOU, YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU MAY HAVE TO THEN SCALE BACK RETAIL A LITTLE BIT? MAY, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT.
WHAT I WOULD TELL YOU IS THE RE THE RETAIL CAN SCALE BACK BY, UH, I, YOU KNOW, ONE BUILDING, I MEAN ONE 12,000, 12,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING.
BUT I MEAN, IT'S STILL EARLY ENOUGH IN THE PROCESS WITH ALL THAT STUFF.
I LIKE, I LIKE TOM'S COMMENT THOUGH.
I DO, I REALLY DO LIKE OPT ONE IN THE SENSE THAT THERE PROVIDES SOME OPEN AREA, LIKE OPEN SPACE, RIGHT.
WHICH WE REALLY WANT TO PROMOTE IN THE TOWNSHIP.
[01:00:01]
I DON'T KNOW.SO MAYBE THE BEST PLAN MIGHT BE A LITTLE COMBINATION OF, OF ONE AND TWO, MAYBE 1, 1 2.
I GOT TO STUDY A LITTLE BIT MORE AND HEAR ALL THE TRAFFIC STUFF AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF.
I, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD JUST THROW AWAY ONE AND GO WITH TWO.
LOOK, I APPRECIATE YOU GETTING UP TO SPEED IN THE BEGINNING.
UM, I TOO, LIKE, LIKE THE PLAN AND QUESTION, SORRY IF THIS WAS COVERED LAST MEETING, THE UNDEVELOPED AREA IN THE TOP LEFT HAND CORNER, UM, THAT YOU SAY WILL GET BACK TO THE HOA TO MANAGE, YOU HAVE IT SUBDIVIDED IN THE LITTLE ROAD AND CUL-DE-SAC DRAWN IN THERE.
SO ARE THERE FUTURE PLANS TO DEVELOP THAT? NO.
SO WE ACTUALLY PUT A NOTE ON THERE NOT TO BE DEVELOPED.
I SEE THAT WHAT, WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU COME INTO, YOU KNOW, AND KIND OF LAY OUT PLANS AND STUFF, UM, YOU JUST TRY TO BE KIND OF LIKE STRAIGHTFORWARD WITH WHAT COULD POTENTIALLY GO THERE OR NOT GO THERE.
WE JUST DIDN'T WANT SOMEBODY TO SAY, OH, HEY, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TO THAT DOWN THE ROAD? WE WANNA SAY, OKAY, PER THE ZONING, YOU COULD DO 10 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS THERE.
WE WOULD JUST SAY, HEY, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT DEVELOPED.
SO IF THIS MOVES DOWN THE, THE PROCESS, WHEN WE DO TRULY ENGINEERED PLANS, WE WOULD JUST SHOW THAT AS, AS OPEN SPACE.
BUT IN THE EARLY STAGES AND HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND WITH THE BOARD, WE JUST WANNA SAY, HEY, WE TOOK THAT OFF.
WE'RE TAKING THAT OFF THE TABLE.
WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE NEIGHBORS COME OUT AND BE LIKE, OH, I'M GONNA HAVE 10 HOUSES BEHIND ME.
'CAUSE THAT'S ALWAYS THE, THE PUSHBACK WE'RE WE'RE TAKING THAT OFF THE TABLE RIGHT AWAY, SO IT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
YOUR QUESTION, THE RECREATIONAL ASPECTS, LIKE THE PICKLEBALL OR THINGS LIKE THAT, MAYBE? YEAH.
AND SOME OTHER THINGS INCLUDED.
THE SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORS UP THERE WOULD BE COMPLAINING ABOUT, CAN I JUMP IN? THOUGHTS, COMMENTS? OH YEAH, PLEASE.
I THINK YOU NEED MORE AMENITY SPACE RIGHT NOW.
YOU HAVE A PICKLEBALL COURT THAT, THAT, THAT ONLY SERVE ONE GROUP OF MEMBERS AND THERE'S OPEN SPACE THERE THAT YOU CAN WORK AROUND.
EVEN IF THAT MEANS YOU GET SOME MORE STACKED TOWNHOUSE AND YOU GET A LITTLE BIT MORE DENSITY, I THINK YOU'RE GONNA NEED MORE AMENITY SPACE.
UM, I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE BACK PORTION, NOT A MOAN AREA.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT FORESTED, RE FORESTED, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SOMETHING THAT'S, THAT'S MANAGED FORESTRY SO THAT WE CAN DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER BIG GRASSY FIELD THAT, THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE A SOMEONE MOW.
I DEFINITELY THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK AT GREENWOOD AVENUE.
I KNOW JERRY'S ABOUT TO, YOU KNOW, UM, I DON'T MIND THE, I DON'T LIKE THE NUMBER OF THIS PLAN.
I DON'T MIND THE, THE LAYOUT OF THIS PLAN OF THE THIRD PLAN WITH THE RESIDENTIAL UP TO THE FRONT.
AGAIN, MAYBE THE NUMBERS LOW WITH SOME AMENITY SPACE BEHIND THOSE STACKED TOWNHOUSES RIGHT UP ON RIDGE PIKE.
BUT I WANT TO SEE IF YOU'RE GONNA GO TO THAT NUMBER, OR EVEN IF YOU'RE GONNA STAY AT 2 56 TO HAVE RETAIL OR TO HAVE MORE RETAIL ON THE OTHER SIDE, TO FOCUS THE RETAIL ON THE LEFT SIDE OF IT, ON THE KLINE ROAD SIDE OF IT, AND NOT SO MUCH ON THE, THE, THE RIGHT SIDE.
I GET IT, THE FREESTANDING RESTAURANTS ARE NICE, RIGHT? BUT UNLESS THEY'RE ATTACHED TO SOMETHING, I DON'T SEE THEM AS BEING THAT SUCCESSFUL.
THERE'S LIKE, MCGIRTS IS SUCCESSFUL RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT'S A GREAT SPORTS BAR TO BEGIN WITH, BUT IT'S ALSO RIGHT THERE WITH CHICK-FIL-A AND SOME OTHER THINGS THAT PEOPLE CAN WALK TO.
THOSE TWO RESTAURANTS OUT BY THEMSELVES TEND TO BECOME FREESTANDING.
NOW, MAYBE YOU DEED RESTRICTION FOR LACK OF A BETTER WAY OF PUTTING IT AT THIS POINT TO SAY OFFICES OR MEDICAL USERS OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT THAT THEY MIGHT BE SUCCESSFUL THERE BECAUSE IT, IT IS NOT SO DEPENDENT ON A DRIVE IN, DRIVE OUT, RIGHT? THAT, WELL, THOSE, THAT, THOSE CREATE MORE OF A DRIVE IN, DRIVE OUT SITUATION.
THE RESTAURANTS I THINK ARE GONNA BENEFIT FROM A WALK.
AND WHILE YOU CAN WALK FROM THE MAIN OVER THERE, MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT, MOST PEOPLE ARE GONNA STICK TO THE, THE 12 K UP IN FRONT AND WANNA WALK TO RESTAURANTS THERE.
UM, THE TRAIL NETWORK IS GOOD.
MAYBE WE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE REFINE IT A LITTLE BIT DEPENDING ON THE SLOPE, THE ELEVATION, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH IT.
UM, I WOULDN'T MIND SEEING IF WE GO WITH, UM, LET ME GO BACK TO THIS ONE.
YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT MAYBE YOU, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE MY MOUSE AROUND, BUT MAYBE YOU LOSE SOME OF THE UNITS IN HERE AND YOU PUT A LITTLE BIT MORE STACKED TOWNHOUSES IN HERE TO PUT THE AMENITIES UP HERE AGAIN, MAYBE THAT'S WHERE THAT STACKED TOWN HOUSE HAS COME UP IN FRONT AND THEY CREATED A LITTLE NEIGHBORHOOD WITH SOME AMENITIES FOR EVERYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY AND BACK.
YEAH, BECAUSE I THINK WHILE IT'S NICE THAT THE 55 AND OLDER, MYSELF INCLUDED, GET THE, THE PICKLEBALL, YOU KNOW, THE YOUNG FAMILIES STILL NEEDS SOMETHING.
AND RIGHT NOW THAT SOMETHING'S GONNA BE OKAY.
WHERE IN THE TOWNSHIP ARE WE GOING? THE PICKLEBALL? WELL, I MEAN, I, I'M KIDDING.
TAKING A 7-YEAR-OLD TO PLAY PICKLEBALL IS FUN FOR ABOUT FIVE MINUTES.
[01:05:01]
SO, BUT TO GIVE THEM SOMEWHERE TO GO TO GET AND TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO DO BECAUSE IN THIS AREA OF THE TOWNSHIP, THERE IS NO PARK, RIGHT? THE DRIVE TO THE PARK IS 20 MINUTES AWAY TO GET HERE, WHICH PEOPLE WILL DO BECAUSE THIS PARK IS PHENOMENAL AND IT'S A GREAT SPACE.RIGHT? BUT THERE'S NOTHING IN THIS AREA THAT THEY CAN GO TO OTHER THAN DRIVING A LIMERICK CAN GO TO MAN REC AND WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO GO TO LIMB.
SO LIKE, JUST JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, THAT LIGHT BLUE IN THEIR DRAWING, THAT'S MARSH.
IT'S MORE KIND OF LIKE A, IT'S, UH, A BUFFER AREA.
SO IT'S NOT ALL WETLAND, IT'S WETLAND.
THERE'S WETLANDS IN THERE, THERE'S CREEKS THROUGH THERE AND THERE'S REPAIRING.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT NOW EVEN THOUGH YOU PUT THE TRAIL THROUGH YOU, YOU CAN BE TRAILED, YOU THINK? YES.
AND THERE'S AN AREA THAT YOU CAN'T PUT 'EM, YOU CAN'T PUT A BASKETBALL COURT THERE.
AND WE WILL HAVE THE DISCUSSION ABOUT OUR FEE IN LIEU OF RECREATION, OPEN SPACE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
WE'LL, WE'LL GET INTO THAT DISCUSSION ONCE WE HAVE A MORE FORMAL PLAN.
BUT YOU KNOW, EVEN IF THERE'S SOME RECREATION SPACE THAT YOU DEDICATE SOME WORK, WE WORK ON THE, SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE TOWNSHIP FOR YOU TO BUILD, IT'S ALWAYS LESS EXPENSIVE FOR YOU TO BUILD SOMETHING THAT IS FOR US TO DO SOMETHING.
UM, MAYBE WE HAVE THAT CONVERSATION DOWN THE ROAD.
UM, GENERALLY I DO LIKE THE RETAIL OF, OF PLAN TWO BETTER.
I THINK THAT THAT CAN CREATE A REALLY NICE URBAN SPACE THAT NOTHING HAS ALONG THE RIDGE BIKE THERE.
AND YOU CAN CREATE AN EXTREMELY WALKABLE COMMUNITY AND YOU CAN STILL GET TO TARGET AND DO YOUR BIG GROCERY SHOPPING.
UM, I KNOW 12 K ISN'T BIG ENOUGH TO PUT A TRADER JOE'S IN, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT
SO, BECAUSE EVERYBODY ASKED FOR THAT.
IT'S FUNNY, ONE OF THE TRADER JOE'S, ONE OF THE RETAIL PEOPLE WE TALKED TO ACTUALLY SAID THIS WOULD BE A GOOD SPOT FOR TRADER JOE'S.
I THINK SOMEWHERE IN THIS TOWNSHIP, SOMEWHERE IN THIS AREA IS A GREAT SPOT FOR IT ONLY WANTS ONE FOR SOME REASON.
THEY DON'T WANT TO LEAVE THE MAIN LINE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DEAL IS, BUT THAT'S, I I, I THINK THIS PLAN IS, IS I THINK THEY WERE, AS WE'VE SAID, I THINK THEY WERE ULTRA RESPONSIVE TO WHAT YOU SAID LAST MONTH OR MONTH AND A HALF AGO.
UM, WE WOULD LOOK AT REZONING THIS PARCEL AND WITH A CERTAIN ZONING TO IT.
I DON'T REALLY WANNA DO AN OVERLAY, BUT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW THAT WORKS OUT.
UM, AS WE DO THIS, WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA START TALKING ABOUT WHAT ELSE WE'RE GONNA DO WITH RIDGE PIKE.
I DON'T KNOW IF I BUY INTO THAT.
THIS IS GONNA BE THE ECONOMIC DRIVER THAT THEY BUY INTO, BUT THAT'S REALLY JUST A PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE FOR THE REST OF BRIDGE BIKE.
I THINK THAT'S MORE PROBLEMATIC WHEN YOU HAVE A SINGLE LOT.
I MEAN WE COULD PUT A COUPLE MORE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 'EM.
UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO DECIDE AS A PLANNING COMMISSION IS WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE NC DISTRICT? BECAUSE THIS WOULD PROBABLY BE A NEW DISTRICT OF, OF SOME SORT.
ANYHOW, THINK WE, WE LIKE IT, BUT BEFORE WE UH, DO THAT, THAT'S ALL FOR ME.
THEN I'M GONNA ASK FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
ANYBODY YOU WANT TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT? YOU GOT SOME PUBLIC PEOPLE HERE.
DO YOU WANT TO MAKE ANY PUBLIC? NOTHING.
WELL, THE ONE THING YOU MAY WANT TO DO, YEAH.
NOT THAT THIS IS, UH, IDENTIFY YOURSELF TOO, PLEASE.
PARDON? YOU GOTTA GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
UH, ONE IMPORTANT THING THAT WE FOUND IN OUR COMMUNITY, WHICH IS REGENCY AND EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT REGENCY I'M SURE IS, UM, WE TOOK A PUTTING GREEN OUT THAT WAS HARDLY USED AND PUT A BOCCE CORD IN.
UH, WE HAVE TEAMS IN THERE EVERY DAY.
AND IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING FOR YOU GUYS THAT YOU CAN THINK ABOUT INSTEAD OF EVEN PICKLEBALL, UH, YOU MAY WANT TO EVEN THINK ABOUT BOCCE.
UH, VERY POPULAR, VERY EASY ON THE OLDER PEOPLE AND EVEN THE YOUNGER PEOPLE.
SO IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.
AND THAT WOULD, THAT WAS ALL JUST A THOUGHT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
WELL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR FEEDBACK.
WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO HERE, GENTLEMEN? NOTHING AT ALL.
I THINK YOU'VE GIVEN SOME MORE GOOD FEEDBACK.
UM, I'M SURE WE'LL BE HAVING A CONVERSATION.
I'LL BE HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THEM IN THE NEXT DAY OR SO AND FIGURE OUT IF WHAT THEY WANNA DO BEFORE THEY GET ON THE BOARD AGENDA, AND THEN THEY'LL MAKE A SHORTER PRESENTATION TO THE BOARD
SO WE MAKE NO RECOMMENDATION AT THIS POINT.
NO, I, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO.
I MEAN, I THINK IF YOU WANT TO EXPRESS TO ME WHAT YOUR GENERAL CONSENSUS IS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO PLAN UP TO THIS POINT.
WELL, I THINK I, MY OPINION IS, I THINK WE'VE ALREADY EXPRESSED OUR OPINION.
THERE ARE MANY OFFICIAL VOTE, MANY OPTIONS.
MANY, BECAUSE IT'S ON OFFICIAL APPLICATION.
THERE REALLY ISN'T AN OFFICIAL VOTE.
[01:10:01]
THE ONLY THING I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE IS WHEN WE GO IN FRONT OF THE, UH, SUPERVISOR, THE SUPERVISORS IN A COUPLE WEEKS, I WOULD LOVE FOR THEM TO SAY, HEY, WE, WE TALKED TO SUPERVISORS AND THEY'RE ALL IN FAVOR, OR FOUR IN FAVOR OR THE LANGUAGE.I WOULD JUST LOVE SOMETHING TO KNOW LIKE, HEY, EVERYONE'S IN SUPPORT OF IT.
AND, YOU KNOW, WELL, I, I THINK WE'RE IN, IN SUPPORT AND FROM A GENERAL PERSPECTIVE, RIGHT.
BUT WITH LOTS OF COMMENTS, ISSUES, CONCERNS, ALL THAT.
WRITE SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH.
AND WE'LL DEAL WITH THE DETAILS AND THE YOU COMMISSION AS WE GO FORWARD.
AND I KNOW YOU GUYS HAVEN'T WORKED WITH US IN THE PAST, BUT IF YOU TALK TO ANY OF THE TOWNSHIPS THAT DO WORK WITH US, WE UNDERSTAND LIKE THIS IS A PROCESS AND IT'S PROBABLY A TWO AND A HALF OR THREE YEAR PROCESS AND A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH AND, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO KEEP THE NEIGHBORS HAPPY AND GET SOMETHING THAT THE TOWNSHIP WANTS.
AND OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING THAT WORKS WITH THE LANDOWNER.
YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF NEIGHBORS TO, TO, TO, I MEAN, NOT, NOT OF TIME AWAY, BUFFER BETWEEN YOU AND THE YEAH, TOM.
EITHER WAY THOUGH, WE LIKE TO GET AHEAD OF IT AND WE WANNA BE GOOD NEIGHBORS.
SO, BUT WE, WE TRY TO BE GOOD GUYS TO WORK WITH AND LIKE I SAID, WE, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE REALLY WANT TO BUILD GREAT NEIGHBORHOODS AND WE WANNA DO STUFF THAT BENEFITS THE OVERALL TOWNSHIP.
ONE THING THAT YOU MENTIONED THAT, THAT CAUGHT MY EAR RIGHT AWAY IS SO MANY PEOPLE COME IN HERE AND PRESENT SOMETHING AND, AND THEN NEXT THING YOU KNOW, WE SEE A HUNDRED PEOPLE SITTING OUT HERE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT.
UM, IF YOU TALK TO SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN THE AREA, IT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE FOR SURE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE ON BOARD.
SO, WE'LL, WE'LL DEFINITELY DO THAT.
YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY ASSUMING THAT THE SUPERVISORS AGREE WITH YOU, IT'S A LET'S, LET'S KIND OF YOU SECOND AND THIRD.
WE ALL THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA SO FAR.
THANK YOU GUYS VERY MUCH, VERY MUCH.
UM, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO HERE ABOUT
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
THE FUTURE? JEFFIT IS AS IF WE WEREN'T ALREADY TALKING.
UM, WELL ON THE 16TH 16TH, THE 16TH, WHICH IS OUR NEXT MEETING, UM, MONTCLAIR TOWNHOUSE OF WHITAKER IS POTENTIALLY ON, WE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHERE THEY'RE WITH THEIR PLAN SUBMISSIONS AND REVIEW TIME AND, AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO WE GOT A 50 50 SHOT THEY'LL BE ON.
UM, I WILL BE TALKING TO THEIR ATTORNEY TOMORROW.
THE QUESTION IS IF THEIR PLANS ARE READY AND IF JEN HAS ENOUGH TIME TO REVIEW THEM.
'CAUSE THERE ARE TECHNICAL PLANS AT THIS POINT WITH, WITH THE PRELIMINARY PLAN.
UM, MAINLINE HOSPITAL WILL BE ON THAT AGENDA FOR THE FIRST SORT OF DISCUSSION OF THEIR PLAN, THE DISCUSSION OF THEIR ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, I ARE WE ANTICIPATING A, UH, A UH, A CROWD OF PEOPLE COMING? UH, I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, WE'VE HAD A FEW PEOPLE THAT HAVE EXPRESSED CONCERN.
UM, BUT I CAN'T SAY THAT IT, THAT WE'VE, I MEAN, HAVE YOU HEARD ANY FEEDBACK FROM PEOPLE COME THERE ISN'T A FRIENDS OF, OF MAINLAND HOSPITAL YET? OR, OR, OR FRIENDS AGAINST MAINLAND HOSPITAL YET? SO THAT I'M AWARE OF AND I TEND TO BE PRETTY TAPPED IN OR PEOPLE TEND TO TELL ME.
AND, AND AS WE GET CLOSER, MAYBE IT WILL.
UM, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS REALLY JUST SORT OF THE INITIAL DISCUSSION OF WHAT THE ZONING ORDINANCE IS, WHAT THEIR PLAN IS.
THEY'RE LOOKING TO GET THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT AND THE ZONING MAP AMENDMENT DONE FIRST, AND THEN THEY DO THE CONDITIONAL USE INTENDED SKETCH.
'CAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF LAYERS TO THIS APPLICATION.
BUT I MEAN, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW.
I, I JUST THINK, UH, MY OPINION WOULD BE JUST LIKE THIS PLAN WE JUST HEARD THE FEEDBACK SHOULD BE MINIMAL.
IT DOESN'T, I, THIS IS A GREAT USE OF THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE TOWN.
I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU, BUT THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS.
WE'LL GET TO THOSE MINOR PEOPLE BACK THERE A MINUTE NIGHT THAT ARE GOING TO GET, BUT ABSOLUTELY.
YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S FOR THE FUTURE OF THAT PROPERTY, IT'S A GOOD FIT.
UM, FOR THE OCTOBER MEETING THAT I LEFT THE DATE OFF OF, I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE NINTH.
IT WOULD BE THE, YEAH, I JUST TALKED ABOUT THAT.
IT'S THE, UH, SEVENTH SEVENTH.
UH, IT WOULD BE THE, IT WOULD BE THE SEVENTH.
IT IS A LOT OF, WE HAVE A LOT OF PLANS OUT THERE THAT, THAT THE APPLICANTS ARE REVIEWING AND WRITING AND FINISHING UP AND CLEANING UP.
AND WE WENT THROUGH A LOT OF THEM OVER THE SUMMER AND THEY, UM, THEY'RE NOT READY YET.
NOW, TOM, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, YOU ARE NOT HERE FOR THE 16TH? I AM NOT HERE ON THE 16TH.
I'M KIND OF ANTICIPATING THAT MAYBE THE, THE HOSPITAL MIGHT COME BACK ON THE OCTOBER 7TH MEETING FOR RECOMMENDATION AT THAT POINT HAVE RATHER THAN
[01:15:01]
THE 16TH.YOU MEAN? I THINK THE 16TH IS JUST INTRODUCTION INFORMATION, GET YOUR FEEDBACK ON THE HOSPITAL TO BEGIN AND THEN MAYBE AT THAT POINT OCTOBER COME BACK FOR THE RECOMMENDATION.
UM, IT'S A LOT TO TAKE IN FOR THE HOSPITAL, ESPECIALLY WITH THE ZONING AND ALL OF THAT.
MOM, HAVE YOU HEARD MUCH FROM THEM? I'M SORRY? HAVE YOU HEARD MUCH FROM THEM? OH YES.
THEY'VE BEEN VERY RESPONSIVE AND WE'VE HAD MEETING, HAVE YOU YEAH.
JEN AND BRIAN ARE ASKING THEM QUESTIONS.
YEAH, IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE IN THE ZONING WORLD RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY THE INITIAL PART OF IT.
I MEAN THERE IS A DRY VI THAT BRIAN HAS BEATEN THEM UP OVER.
UM, THAT'S GONNA BE A BIG QUESTION, BUT I THINK ALSO MONTCLAIR TOWNHOUSES MIGHT SHIFT TO THE OCTOBER MEETING AND THEN, SO THAT WOULD BE THE FIRST MEETING.
WE'LL SEE IF SOME OF THE OTHER ONES I, I CAN GO THROUGH.
BUT THEY'RE REALLY, OF ALL THE APPLICATIONS WE HAVE, THERE REALLY ISN'T ANY MOVEMENT ON ANYTHING AT THIS POINT.
IT'S REALLY ALL ON THE APPLICANT'S HANDS TO BE ARIS OF PLANE.
DID YOU, DID ANYBODY NOTICE THAT, UH, TALKING ABOUT RIDGE PIPE ON THE EAST SIDE OF THIS DEVELOPMENT, SOMEBODY WAS FIXING UP ONE OF THOSE HOUSES ON, UM, ON, ON THAT SIDE.
SOMEBODY, THERE WAS A CONSTRUCTION GOING ON AT ONE OF THOSE HOUSES.
YOU KNOW, ONE THIRD OR FOURTH HOUSE.
WHAT WAS GOING ON? WELL, THEY'RE PUTTING A ROOF ON FOR SURE.
THEY'RE PUTTING A NEW ROOF ON.
I KNOW THERE'S A HOUSE THAT WAS FOR SALE THAT JUST RECENTLY WENT UP FOR SALE, LIKE A BANK SALE THAT MIGHT BE TRYING TO GET IN SALEABLE SHAPE.
THE TO HAD ASKED ME, MR. RAY, YOU HAD ASKED ME EARLIER ABOUT THE BOARD'S REACTION TO THE L CAR WASH AND THE DEAN RESTRICTIONS.
THEY UH, THEY ARE STILL LOOKING FOR MORE INFORMATION FROM 'EM.
UM, A COUPLE MEMBERS WERE NOT HAPPY, UH, DID, DID NOT LIKE IT VERY MUCH OR WEREN'T NECESSARILY IN FAVOR, BUT THEY WERE JUST, THEY WANTED MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE TRAFFIC PORTION AND WHAT, WHAT THE TRAFFIC MEANT, WHAT THE TRAFFIC IMPACTS MIGHT BE IN AND OUT, IN AND OUT.
SAME THING YOU HAD EXPRESSED, BUT THEY HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE AUTHORITY TO SAY, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO ANYTHING UNTIL YOU GIVE US THAT INFORMATION.
ALL YOU, YOU, AS THE PLANNING COMMISSION CAN SAY WE'D LIKE TO HAVE IT.
THE BOARD CAN SAY WE'RE, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO ANYTHING.
SO IS THERE, IS THERE A A, A PLAN TO COME BACK WITH THAT INFORMATION? I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GONNA COME BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
IT DEPENDS ON WHAT INFORMATION THEY BRING.
'CAUSE RIGHT NOW THE, THE CRUX OF IT REALLY IS IF THE BOARD ISN'T WILLING TO LIFT THAT DEED RESTRICTION, IF THERE'S JUST NOT NO CAPACITY FOR THEM TO DO THAT, THERE'S NO POINT FOR THEM TO COME BACK HERE RIGHT.
SO REALLY THE QUESTION IS, WE ALREADY DID THAT.
ALREADY, WE ALREADY SAID WE LIFT AND, AND YOU, I THINK YOU RECOMMENDATION WAS YOU'RE GENERALLY OKAY WITH THAT AS A USE, BUT YOU WANT TO SEE THE TRAFFIC AND ALL OF THAT STUFF BEFORE YOU BUY OFF ON THE RIGHT.
SO I THINK THE SUPERVISORS WEREN'T COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
THEY SAID, NO, WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING UNTIL WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING.
WE WANT YOU TO COME BACK WITH MORE INFORMATION.
WELL, THEY'RE GONNA BUILD AS MANY CAR WASHES AS WE SEE GOING UP, UH, OTHER PLACES AND, AND THAT THERE WON'T BE TOO MUCH OF A LINE GOING IN OR COMING
AND THAT WAS THEIR, THAT WAS PART OF THEIR, UM, THEIR, THEIR CONCERN WAS HOW MANY OF THESE DO WE NEED TO BUILD? YES.
AND THEN THAT'S NOT REALLY A QUESTION BECAUSE IN MY MIND IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO BUILD A, WHETHER OR NOT SUCCESSFUL LAND USE, THAT'S THEIR PROBLEM.
SOMEONE WANTS TO SPEND THAT KIND OF MONEY.
'CAUSE THEY THINK THEY SAID THREE TO $6 MILLION TO BUILD THIS, TO BUILD THAT DOWN THERE.
AND IF THEY WANNA SPEND $6 MILLION AND IT FAILS, THAT'S NOT MY PROBLEM.
I MEAN, NOBODY WANTS TO SEE A EMPTY CAR WASH SITTING X AMOUNT OF YEARS UNTIL SOMEBODY, BUT NOBODY WANTS TO SEE AN EMPTY CASINO.
CAN'T DO ANY, THAT'S THEIR BUSINESS.
THEY FEEL THEY'RE, SOMEBODY MUST BE SAYING, HEY, THERE'S A LOT OF POTENTIAL IN THIS AREA.
WELL EVEN THE EXISTING CAR WASHES HAVE HAVE RENOVATED, LIKE TOMMY'S FOR EXAMPLE, THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS RIGHT NOW.
THE ONE DOWN NEAR SPRING CITY THAT JUST WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE THING.
SO OH, THEY CERTAINLY GOT THE RITE AID OVER THERE ON BORDERS FOR YEAH, I SAW THAT.
NO, THEY, THEY RECEIVED THEIR, THEY NOW WHETHER OR NOT THEY, MY GUESS IS THEY DO HAVE TO LAND DEVELOPMENT, BUT I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN
WELL THEY, YEAH, THEY'VE, THEY'RE MOVING IT ALONG.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROCESS IS EITHER, BUT, BUT I HEARD THAT IT WAS POSITIVE.
THE ONLY OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS, BLAIR, ARE YOU GONNA COME BACK AGAIN? ABSOLUTELY.
UM, YOU AND I NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION.
UM, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT AGENDA IS GONNA BE YET,
[01:20:01]
BUT WE'LL, WE'LL DEAL WITH IT.WELL I WON'T BE THERE FOR THAT MEETING ANYHOW.
BUT YES, I NEED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE NEXT MEETING.
THAT WOULD BE BE IN NOVEMBER, RIGHT? YEAH.
WELL THE OTHER CONVERSATION WE HAD.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING THE MEETING AFTER.
UM, AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT MOVING FORWARD FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO HAVE A PLAINTIFF COMMISSION PERSON ON THAT.
WE HAD, WE CHANGED THOSE RULES.
WELL, BUT THEY, BUT WHOEVER'S ON IT NOW HAVE TO BE THERE FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS.
DID ANYBODY TELL BOB WE OFFICIALLY VOTED HIM AS THE MEMBER? YEAH.
BOB IS NOW THE NEW ADVISOR, ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISOR.
HOW HOPE THAT WASN'T TOO HARD FOR BOARD FOR YOU TONIGHT.
YOU SEE US WHERE WE REALLY NEED GOING.
WE'RE GONNA GET HIM A CONTROVERSIAL, WE GET MORE AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION.
WHERE DO WE GET ABOUT A HUNDRED PEOPLE OUT THERE? I'VE SEEN IT.
YOU GUYS GOOD? JEN? BRIAN, YOU GOOD? ALRIGHT.
UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO, UH, JURY.
UH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, UH, CONCLUDE, UH, TODAY'S MEETING ONCE YOU SECOND THAT I BEAR TILL HE'S ON THE AGENDA.
THE SECOND THAT ALL FAVOR ADJOURN.