Aug 06, 2026 Municipal Authority

MADAM CHAIRMAN, TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.

PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC.

WE STAND ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVIDUAL JUSTICE

[1. Approve August 6, 2026 Municipal Authority Agenda]

DIS ON TO ACTION DISCUSSION ITEMS. RECEIVE UPDATES ON CURRENT AND PENDING WATER SEWER PROJECTS.

DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA? SO MOVED.

MOVED A OH, ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.

ANY, ANYONE OPPOSED? MOTION PASSES.

CARRIES.

UH, PUBLIC COMMENT.

I DON'T SEE ANYBODY OUT THERE.

[2. Approve June 4, 2026 Meeting Minutes]

MADAM CHAIR.

MOVE.

APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM, UH, THE JUNE 4TH MEETING.

I'M LOOKING FOR A MOTION FOR THAT.

SO MOVED A SECOND.

ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.

[3. Receive updates on current and pending water/sewer projects]

THE SECOND AVENUE FORCE MAIN PROJECT IS STILL WITH EPA.

WE'RE WAITING ON THEM TO APPROVE THE DOCUMENTS SO THAT WE GO, GOT THE BID INFIELD TRAP ROAD.

WE GOT DEP APPROVAL.

SO WE NOW ARE WORKING ON THE DESIGN, SO WE CAN GO OUT TO BID ON THAT.

WE WILL NEED AN EASEMENT FROM ONE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS.

WE TALKED TO THEM, DON AND I HAVE TALKED TO HIM BRIEFLY.

HE SEEMS TO BE COOPERATIVE.

MILL ROAD, STORM SEWER PIPE REPLACEMENT.

THAT JOB IS THE PIPE'S ALL IN.

THE CONTRACTOR ON MONDAY WILL BE DOING THE PAVING RESTORATION, AND THEN HE WILL BE DONE WELL WITHIN THE TIME OF THE WINDOW.

WE GAVE HIM THE WORK, UH, THE SANITARY INTERCEPT LINING PROJECT.

GEORGE OR DON CAN ANSWER THE STATUS OF THAT COMPLETED.

YES.

THAT THE, A LOT OF MONEY PARTIAL FOR THIS YEAR IS DONE.

WE'RE JUST GONNA WAIT FOR NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET TO DO THE FOLLOWING.

AND THAT'S ALL WE HAVE.

I, I RECALL THAT THEY SAID THEY MADE A FEW TWEAKS, UM, TO THAT, AND I HANDED OUT THE SCHEDULE, THE FEE SCHEDULE THAT THEY USE, UH, BASED ON WHAT THEY DEFINE AS ERUS.

[4. Update from Authority Engineer on MS4 compliance activities]

UPDATE FROM .

THERE IS NO MOVEMENT FROM DEP FOR THAT.

SO WE KNOW IT'LL BE VOLUME CONTROL BASED, BUT IT'LL BE DUE WITHIN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.

[5. Receive report from Township Manager on the June 10 working group meeting]

REPORT ON THE, YEAH.

I SENT OUT, UH, THE, UM, THE WORKING THE NOTES FROM OUR, UH, JULY 10TH, UH, WORKING GROUP.

AND, AND WHEN I, WHEN I DID THAT, I REALIZED THAT OUR WORKING GROUP WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE MET ONE, ONE MORE TIME, UH, BEFORE TONIGHT.

UH, AS FAR AS, UM, TRYING TO GIVE SOME, UH, NEXT STEP RECOMMENDATIONS.

SO WHAT I, I DECIDED TO DO WAS JUST PUT THIS OUT FOR EVERYBODY TO, TO KIND OF GIVE AN UPDATE ON WHAT WE DISCUSSED, I GUESS FOR THE MEMBERS.

LIKE, I WOULD ASK YOU, BILL OR, OR JOHN DID.

I, UM, I, I, I TRIED TO CAPTURE SOME OF THE KEY DISCUSSION POINTS THAT WE DISCUSSED.

UH, WE, WE HAD A GUEST SPEAKER FROM, UM, THE WARMINSTER MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY.

UH, UM, UH, THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, UH, DALTON GEORGE, UH, UH, WAS INVITED BY BILL.

BILL KNOWS HIM.

AND, UM, I THOUGHT WE HAD A PRETTY GOOD DISCUSSION ON HOW, UH, WARMINSTER AUTHORITY DOES THEIR, UH, DOES THEIR, UH, FEE SCHEDULE.

NOT THAT WE WOULD WANNA ADOPT EX UH, VERBATIM WHAT THEY'RE DOING, BUT I THINK IT KIND OF GAVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS, UM, ON, ON HOW THEY APPROACHED THE FEE, WHAT THEY DID FOR COMMUNICATIONS, UH, PROCESS.

UM, THEY WENT FULL STEAM AHEAD AND I, I DON'T THINK THEY HIT PAUSE EVEN AFTER THE SUPREME COURT CAME, CAME THROUGH.

SO THEY KEPT THEIR, THEIR PROGRAM IN PLACE.

[00:05:01]

AND, UM, UM, I THINK THIS KIND OF, UH, KIND OF DOVETAILS WITH WHAT WE LOOKED AT.

UM, BUT, UM, I WAS GONNA ASK BILL, OR, OR JOHN, IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY, UM, ADDITIONAL ITEMS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO, I DON'T WANT TO RE READ VERBATIM THESE MINUTE MEETING NOTES, BUT I SENT THEM OUT IN ADVANCE TO SEE IF EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THEM.

UM, WE, UH, TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF STUFF.

UM, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THEIR CREDIT PROGRAMS AND, UM, AND, UH, HOW THEY, UH, KEEP THE BUREAUCRACY AT A MINIMUM WHEN IT COMES TO REVIEWING, UH, CERTAIN CREDIT APPLICATIONS.

AND IF YOU LOOK ON THE SECOND PAGE, THEY, UH, I THINK, UH, THEY HAVE A 30% MAXIMUM RESIDENTIAL CREDIT.

UM, THEY CAME UP WITH A, AN AGREED UPON CREDIT FOR ALL HOAS, ESPECIALLY THE COMMON AREA OF THE HOAS.

UM, THEY, THEY HAD, UH, EDUCATIONAL CREDITS FOR ATTENDING TOWNSHIP STORMWATER SESSIONS AND THEN STREAM CLEANUP, PARTICIPATION CREDITS.

UM, UM, I THINK ONE OF OUR CONCERNS WAS WHEN WE WERE BEFORE THE, THE SUPREME COURT PUT A KIBOSH ON THIS, WE WERE, UM, LOOKING AT, I THINK DAIRY TOWNSHIP AND, UH, ANOTHER, UH, ONE OTHER TOWN.

AND ONE OF OUR TAKEAWAYS IS THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF, UM, A LOT OF EXPENSES THAT WENT INTO THE, UH, INTO THE COLLECTION OF THE FEES AS FAR AS OVERHEAD COSTS, AND ESPECIALLY A LOT OF BURDENSOME, UM, PROGRAMS ON HOW YOU'D CALCULATE THE CREDIT.

AND, AND, UM, I THINK THE WAY WARMINSTER HAS IT SET UP IS A LITTLE BIT MORE STREAMLINED, UM, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE MAY WANNA TAKE A LOOK AT.

UM, I DO RECALL THAT, UM, ONE THING WE ASKED THEM IS, YOU KNOW, IN LIGHT OF THE SUPREME COURT, HOW, HOW WERE YOU HANDLING SOME OF YOUR NONPROFITS? AND THEY SAID THAT NOBODY HAS, UM, REFUSED TO PAY.

UM, THEY ARE GETTING SOME PUSHBACK FROM THE CENTENNIAL SCHOOL DISTRICT, WHICH SERVES WARMINSTER ABOUT, UH, THEIR, THEIR, UM, THEIR, UM, ABILITY OR THE, OR THEIR OBLIGATION TO PAY.

SO I SUSPECT THEY MAY RUN INTO SOME ISSUES UP THERE.

AND THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT IS DISTRESSED, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH.

I'M JUST TRYING TO GIVE SOME HIGHLIGHTS.

FEEL F BILL, FEEL FREE TO JUMP IN.

NO, I THINK YOU'RE, I'VE PRETTY MUCH CAPTURED EVERYTHING IN THE YEAH.

IN THE MINUTES.

UM, THE ONLY THING THAT I WANTED, AND YOU BASICALLY SAID THAT EVERYTHING, I WANTED TO SAY EXCEPT OKAY.

TO, JUST TO NOTE THAT THE, THE, UM, THEIR FEE SCHEDULE IS, IS A MONTHLY FEE BECAUSE THEY ADD IT WITH THEIR WATER AND AND SEWER BILL.

UM, SO YOU KNOW WHEN IT'S SIX BUCKS, BUT THAT'S $6 A MONTH, NOT WHAT WE WERE TALKING, YOU KNOW, DOING IT ANNUALLY.

AND I THINK, UH, WHAT I TOOK AWAY FROM THE MEETING WAS THERE'S CERTAIN ELEMENTS THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE IN THE PROGRAM FOR IT TO BE A VALID PROGRAM.

SO IT HAS TO HAVE A CREDIT ELEMENT TO IT.

UH, YOU MEAN FOR IT TO BE, UH, CONSTITUTED AS A FEE, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, CORRECT.

SO BASICALLY THE STRUCTURE THAT THEY'VE SET UP IS THE MINIMUM VIABLE PRODUCT FOR, FOR THE FEE.

UM, 'CAUSE I, I PUSHED, THERE'S A LOT OF ELEMENTS THAT I BELIEVE WE'RE OVERCOMPLICATING IT, BUT UH, WITHOUT THOSE ELEMENTS IT WOULDN'T, IT WOULDN'T BE A VALID FEE STRUCTURE.

SO, UH, I THINK THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE TO UPDATE OUR IMPERMEABLE AREA CALCULATIONS.

THAT'S A GOOD SEGUE TO YOU, JEN, OR SOMEBODY TO TALK ABOUT.

'CAUSE I, I DON'T THINK WE CAN MOVE ANY FURTHER UNTIL WE WE'RE WORKING FROM AN UPDATED IMPERVIOUS MAP.

I, I KNOW WE, WELL, SO THIS ERU CALCULATION FROM WARMINSTER, UM, TO UNDERSTAND THE FULL PICTURE OF THIS, YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEIR ANNUAL BUDGET IS.

'CAUSE THAT'S HOW THIS YEAH, THEY, I DON'T RECALL WHAT THAT WAS.

THAT'S ANOTHER IMPORTANT YEAH.

AND THAT'S ANOTHER, THE CALCULATIONS.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

THE CALCULATIONS THAT GILMORE DID BACK IN 20 20, 20 21 WAS BASED OFF OF AN ANNUAL BUDGET OF $1 MILLION TO CALCULATE THE FEE, UM, THAT WE HAVE FOR THE INFORMATION FROM BEFORE.

NOW, THE ONE THING THAT, UM, IT WAS MENTIONED IN THE MINUTES, I'M NOT SURE WHICH PAGE IT'S ON.

UM, TIM'S MEETING NOTES HERE WAS THAT THEY'RE USING IT UNDER AN AUTHORITY AND THAT THE AUTHORITY BOUGHT THE

[00:10:01]

SYSTEM FROM THE TOWNSHIP.

SO, I MEAN, I NEED TO LOOK AT ZACH ON THAT TO FIND OUT IF THAT'S, AND THAT THAT'S A DIFFERENT'S A LOT OF PAPERWORK.

I THINK THAT FOR THE TIMING THAT'S CORRECT OF THIS, TO IMPLEMENT THAT, WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT HAPPENED IS I THINK WARMINSTER TOWNSHIP WAS UNDER, MIN WAS UNDER FISCAL DISTRESS.

AND SO THE, UH, MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY, UM, UM, BOUGHT OUT, I GUESS PURCHASED THE STORM STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE FROM THE TOWN AND TOOK THAT OVER AS, UM, AS THE RESPONSIBILITY.

AND THEY INCORPORATED THE STORMWATER FEE INTO THE SEWER FEE.

SO YOU'RE CORRECT.

IT'S WHEN THEY SEND OUT A, DID THEY SEND OUT MONTHLY BILLS OR IS IT A YEAH, THEY, THEY READ AND, AND BILL THEIR FOR WATER MONTHLY.

THINK, I PERSONALLY THINK THAT'S EXCESSIVE, BUT UH, 'CAUSE WE'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT MOVING, UM, WE, WE WERE EXPLORING, UH, THE, THE EFFICIENCY OF TAKING THIS OUR SEWER BILL OUT OUT OF, UH, BERKHEIMER AND PUTTING IT WITH, UM, OUR TAX, YOU KNOW, UNDER, UNDER OUR TAX COLLECTOR.

IT WOULD MAKE SENSE IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS, UM, THAT WE KIND OF DO THIS IN ALIGNMENT WITH, UM, WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH, UH, WHAT WE'D BE DOING WITH, UM, THE TAX CLAIM.

I THINK OUR, OUR DYNAMIC IS ALSO A LITTLE BIT UN UNUSUAL POSSIBLY AS COMPARED TO WHEREIN, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR SITUATION.

YEAH, IT'S, BUT IN OURS IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT AN APPLE AND APPLE, I, THIS IS JUST IN OURS.

IN OURS, THE, YOU KNOW, WE AS THE AUTHORITY ONLY HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION MM-HMM .

BECAUSE THAT'S, IN FACT, I WAS THE ONE WHO DID IT.

AND THAT'S WHEN WE, WHEN WE REDID THE ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION, THE SUPERVISORS DIDN'T WANT THE AUTHORITY TO GO FURTHER THAN THAT.

THEY ONLY WANTED THE AUTHORITY TO BE ABLE TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS.

SO ANYTHING THAT IS ADOPTED IN OUR CASE IS GONNA BE THE, IT'S JUST A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.

AND IT'S PART OF THAT, THE REASON I WANTED, I WANTED TO HAVE THIS MEETING IS BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE KICKING OFF FOR 2027, BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

WE'RE WE'RE ALREADY IN AUGUST.

SO I THOUGHT IT WAS, IT WAS WORTH AT LEAST TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ON, ON, UM, 'CAUSE THIS WILL BE, THIS WOULD BE PART OF THE BOARD'S BUDGET AND WE, WE WOULD NEED TO, UM, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT OUR COUNCIL ON HOW WE WOULD STRUCTURE STRUCTURE AND THEY'LL HAVE, I THINK, BUT I'LL DEFER TO ZACH, BUT LESS LEEWAY THAN THE AUTHORITY.

IN PROVING THAT IT'S A PHENO ATTACKS.

ELEMENTS BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THAT WOULD MAKE THEM VULNERABLE.

I THINK IF IT'S COMING FROM THE TOWNSHIP, IT'S, YOU HAVE A YEAH.

AND ANOTHER QUESTION, UM, BRIAN AND I WERE TALKING, YOU MAY REMEMBER THIS JOE, WHEN YOU WERE, WHEN YOU, UM, IS THAT, UM, WE ONLY HAVE, I THINK, UM, 'CAUSE WHEN YOU REFER TO THE FEE, IT ALL COMES DOWN TO DO YOU HAVE TO ASSESS NON-PROFITS? UM, THAT A FEE SCHEDULE? I THINK BRIAN CAME UP WITH A CALCULATION THAT LESS THAN ABOUT 1%, UM, OF OUR PROPERTIES IN THE TOWNSHIP ARE, ARE, UM, HE DID DO A CALCULATION.

I DON'T REMEMBER THE NUMBER.

I WOULDN'T HAVE SAID IT WAS THAT LOW, BUT IT WAS LOW.

IT WAS PRETTY, IT WAS PRETTY LOW.

AND BRIAN WAS SAYING, WHY ARE WE MESSING AROUND WITH IT? BRIAN'S ON VACATION.

SO I'M HOPING, I'M NOT MISQUOTING HIM, BUT HE, I THINK IT WAS, IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE EFFICIENT IF WE JUST, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, UM, TAKE THE BANDAID OFF AND JUST CALL IT A, CALL IT A TAX.

AND THEN THAT TAKES AWAY ALL THE OTHER AMBIGUITY AND JUST, AND SINCE THERE'S, WE'RE GOING, WE SEEM TO BE GOING THROUGH A LOT OF STEPS JUST TO ACCOMMODATE SOME OF THE FEW, FEW THAT ARE, THAT ARE, UM, THAT ARE, UM, CURRENTLY TAX EXEMPT.

SO THAT'S ANOTHER, THAT'S ANOTHER, UH, POINT, YOU KNOW, GETTING THE IMPERVIOUS MAP UPDATED.

UM, AND UM, AND UM, AS FAR AS THE BUDGET PROCESS AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT OUR BUDGET IS.

'CAUSE I, I AGREE WITH JEN.

I MEAN THIS, THIS FEE SCHEDULE WAS PLUGGED IN TO FINANCE AN ESTABLISHED, AND JEN'S RIGHT ABOUT THAT.

IT WAS, IT, IT'S A PLUGGED NUMBER.

I MEAN, THEY TOOK, THEY TOOK WHAT THEY WERE SPENDING AND BASICALLY BACKED INTO IT.

AND THEN I DIDN'T LIKE THE, YOU KNOW, IT'S 2 8, 10, 12, 14.

AND I'M LIKE, WELL WAIT A MINUTE.

YOU HAVE A CLASS, A TIER FIVE IS FIVE TIMES SIX TIMES AS BIG AS A TIER ONE, BUT IT'S ONLY DOUBLE THE PRICE, YOU KNOW? AND HE'S LIKE, WELL, I JUST PLAYED AROUND WITH THE NUMBERS BASED UPON THE NUMBER OF PROPERTIES WE HAD TO MAKE IT COME OUT TO THE TOTAL THAT WE WANTED.

SO IT IS SORT OF A, A MATH EXERCISE TO, TO COME OUT WITH THAT.

BUT I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO PUT A LITTLE BIT MORE INTO IT THAN I WANT THE ANSWER TO BE A MILLION DOLLARS.

SO WHAT DO I CHARGE FOR EACH TIER? NO, YOU WANT A, YOU WANT AN AUTHENTIC NUMBER, NOT JUST A CORRECT.

YEAH, I AGREE.

SO, AND I THINK HE SAID SOMETHING ZACH, DIDN'T YOU SAY SOMETHING ABOUT, UM, UM, I THINK YOU ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT STREET SWEEPING.

THEY, THEY HAD, THEY, THEY PURPOSELY LEFT OUT CERTAIN

[00:15:01]

WELL THAT WAS, THOSE WERE SOME OF THE ELEMENTS THAT WERE SPECIFICALLY RAISED IN THE COURT'S DECISIONS, SUPREME COURT'S DECISION AND THE, THE JOINING OPINION, THEY BASICALLY SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THIS HAS STREET SWEEPING AND TREE PLANNING AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IT'S MORE OF A GENERALIZED BENEFIT RATHER THAN SPECIFIC, RELATED TO STORMWATER MANAGEMENT.

SO I THINK IT PROBABLY MAKES SENSE TO EXCLUDE THOSE TYPES OF THINGS FROM THE USE OF THE FUNDS.

HE ALSO TALKED ABOUT HOW THE FUNDS WERE SEGREGATED, WHERE I GUESS IN WESTCHESTER THEY WERE JUST GOING RIGHT INTO THE GENERAL FUND.

UM, AND YEAH, SO I, I THINK THAT ONE OF THE KEY DISTINCTIONS THAT I PICKED UP ON WAS THE FACT THAT BECAUSE THEY WERE JUST SENDING IT OUT WITH THEIR NORMAL SEWER BILLS, THERE WAS AN AUTOMATIC KIND OF COLLECTION ASPECT TO IT.

WHEREAS, I MEAN, WOULDN'T THIS HAVE TO BE ITS OWN SEPARATE BILL OR ARE WE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING THIS ON THE TAX BILLS WITH THE SEWER FEE.

I THINK IF WE KEEP IT A FEE, MY RECOMMENDATION TO THE SUPERVISORS WOULD BE TO SEND IT OUT WITH THE SEWER FEE.

THAT'S, THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER POLICY TO WE'RE THE BOARD'S STILL WRESTLING ON, ON HOW TO, IF WE, IF WE TAKE THE, UM, SEWER, UM, RESPONSIBILITY OUT OF BERKHEIMER, PUTTING IT IN WITH THE, UH, WITH THE TAX THAT ONE OF THE BENEFITS IT'S MAKES IT ONE STOP SHOPPING.

EVERYBODY CAN COME IN AND PAY THE FEE.

UM, WE'VE HAD SOME, WE'VE HAD SOME CUSTOMER SERVICE ISSUES WITH BERKHEIMER.

I WON'T, I DON'T WANT TO GO ON PUBLIC TIME PERIOD.

'CAUSE THEY, THEY DO A, A GOOD JOB ON THEIR INCOME TAX.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THEIR FORTE WITH, UH, WITH SEWER.

SO IT JUST MAKES SENSE IF WE'RE GONNA GO IN THIS DIRECTION AND WE DO DO SOME TYPE OF FEE STRUCTURE, IT, YOU'D HAVE IT WHERE ALL THIS WOULD GO, UM, WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED AT THE SAME SAME TIME.

I QUESTION I HAVE IS, UM, WE'RE INTO AUGUST.

UH, WE'RE GONNA BE STARTING OUR BUDGET DELIBERATIONS PROBABLY IN SEPTEMBER.

AND UH, YOU KNOW, UM, MAYBE HAVE OUR FIRST PRELIMINARY BUDGET HEARING SOMETIME IN OCTOBER, EARLY NOVEMBER.

UM, IS THAT ENOUGH TIME FOR US TO, UM, DO WE HAVE ENOUGH, DO YOU, IS THIS, UM, IF THE WORKING GROUP MEETS, IF WE ROLL UP OUR SLEEVES, MEET, MEET A LITTLE BIT MORE, MORE DILIGENT, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT IS REALISTICALLY WE CAN HAVE DONE FOR THE 2027 BUDGET? I'M MORE JEN.

MORE CONCERNED WITH YOU JEN, ON WHETHER YOU HAVE ENOUGH, UM, TIME TO UPDATE THE UR.

SO MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO NOT DO ANY UPDATES TO WHAT WE'VE ALREADY CALCULATED AND TAKE THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLANS FROM THE PAST FIVE YEARS AND JUST ADD THOSE INTO THE SYSTEM.

BECAUSE THE ONE THING WARMINSTER SAID WAS THEY DIDN'T REALLY GET CHALLENGES OR REFUSAL TO PAY ON THE PREMISE OF PAYING.

IT WAS MORE IS MY FEE CORRECT BECAUSE DID YOU CALCULATE MY COVERAGE CORRECTLY? SO IF THAT'S THE CASE AND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO RE-LOOK AT ONES THAT COME IN RANDOMLY, I WOULDN'T PUT THE TIME UPFRONT IF YOU KNOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, ON A POTENTIAL CREDIT SITUATION AND MOST LIKELY WOULD ONLY GET WORSE FOR PEOPLE THERE.

IMPERIOUS AREA WOULD ONLY INCREASE INCREASE DOUBT PEOPLE TOOK THEIR DRIVEWAYS OUT.

CORRECT.

FORK OF THE ROAD DO WE WANT TO? RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, YOU'RE EITHER EXPANDING YOUR DRIVEWAY OR YOU'RE PUTTING IN A PATIO OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.

SO SOMETHING FROM FIVE YEARS AGO PROBABLY IS GONNA BE BETTER OFF FOR YOU THAN A CURRENT UPDATE.

POTENTIALLY.

YES.

IT'S MORE THAN LIKELY.

NOW THE NEW MS FOUR THAT'S COMING OUT THAT I SAID ISN'T APPROVED YET.

IT'S NOT APPROVED YET.

BUT THEY DO DEFINE IN THERE THAT, UM, SWIMMING POOLS, THEY'VE ADDED THINGS SPECIFICALLY INTO IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE, WHICH UPPER PROVIDENCE CURRENTLY DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR.

SO THERE WOULD DEFINITELY BE A DISCONNECT THERE, UM, IN ANY PROPERTIES THAT WE HAD, YOU KNOW, LOOKED AT PREVIOUSLY.

UM, BUT IF IT'S FOR SEWER PROJECTS OVERALL AND YOU'RE NOT DOING IT, YOU KNOW, FOR STREET SWEEPING AND OTHER THINGS THAT ARE MS FOUR CREDIT, THEN AGAIN, IS THAT IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO YOU TO RIGHT.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE TO SPEND THAT TIME.

A LOT OF PEOPLE PROBABLY PUT IN POOLS DURING COVID SINCE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO.

SO JOHN, IS IT THE SENSE THAT WE THAT WE CALL IT, CALL IT, STILL TRY TO GO DOWN THE FEE ROUTE AND, AND DO, I GUESS I'M TALKING TO EVERYBODY.

'CAUSE IF, IF WE GO THROUGH THE CREDIT ROUTES AND ALL THAT, WE WOULD, WE WOULD PROBABLY, UM, NEED TO GO THROUGH THESE STEPS.

IF WE CALL IT A TAX, IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO DO.

A LOT OF THIS.

WE'RE KIND OF AT THAT PINCH POINT, WHICH

[00:20:01]

MY ONLY ATTITUDE IS IF WE WERE GONNA CALL IT A TAX, WHY DIDN'T WE DO THIS TWO YEARS AGO? YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? LIKE, WELL, WELL A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE WITH, WITH THE DECISION UP IN THE AIR AFTER COMMONWEALTH COURT.

NOBODY WANTED TO GET IN A SITUATION OF HAVING TO ISSUE REFUNDS BASED ON A SUBSEQUENT RULING BY THE SUPREME COURT.

BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE IT WAS SAFE AS A TAX EITHER WAY BECAUSE IT WAS WESTCHESTER UNIVERSITY WAS SAYING WE'RE TAX EXEMPT.

AND THEN WE ONLY HAVE 1% IF WE, WELL, I WANNA VERIFY.

WELL, I'M JUST SAYING IT WAS SAFE AS A TAX, BUT, AND I, I'LL, I'LL, I'LL SAY THAT I REMEMBER KEN FOR ONE SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT IT IS, UH, A GENERAL PUSHBACK AGAINST, UM, THE NONPROFITS NEVER PAYING ANY PORTION OF IT.

THAT IT WAS A ALMOST A, UH, PHILOSOPHICAL ARGUMENT TRYING TO GET THEM TO PULL THEIR FAIR SHARE BECAUSE THEIR IMPERVIOUS LOOKS LIKE EVERYONE ELSE'S.

PERSONALLY, I PREFER CALLING THINGS A TAX BECAUSE THEY GET FEDERALLY TAX DEDUCTIBLE AS OPPOSED TO A FEE WHICH IS NOT FEDERALLY TAXABLE.

AND I'M UNCLEAR.

I WAS AWAY.

I DIDN'T, I I THAT'S CORRECT.

THE RULING, I DON'T KNOW IF IT DOES IT LEAVE THAT OPEN FOR THE, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN.

SO THE RULING DOESN'T IT, IT DOESN'T TALK ABOUT AUTHORITIES AT ALL.

IT DEALS WITH THE BOROUGH.

SO IT'S DEALING WITH THE BOROUGH CODE RATHER THAN THE SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP CODE.

THERE'S A LOT OF WAYS THAT THAT DECISION'S DISTINGUISHABLE AND THE COURT DOESN'T REALLY ADDRESS KIND OF THE PERIPHERAL QUESTIONS.

THEY JUST KIND OF SAY THOSE ARE GONNA GET WORKED OUT IN FUTURE CASES.

UM, I MEAN, I THINK THAT THERE'S CLEAR AUTHORITY IN THE MUNICIPAL AUTHORITIES ACT.

I MEAN, I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE, AT THE ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION AND SEE WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, JOE.

'CAUSE I I WASN'T AWARE OF THAT SUPERVISION.

I CAN BRING UP SUPERVISION.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

NO, I MEAN, IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU ON THE BOARD BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ALL THIS STUFF .

UM, AND YOU KNOW, WE WILL HAVE TO LOOK INTO THAT.

BUT I I, I THINK THAT WE FOLLOW WHATEVER THE AUTHORITY THAT WE HAVE UNDER THE STATUTE WITH THE, WITH THE MUNICIPAL AUTHORITIES ACT.

IF WE CAN ADOPT SOMETHING THROUGH THAT, THEN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S PRETTY CLEAR FROM THE COURT'S.

AND THERE WAS LANGUAGE THAT WAS A PART OF THIS WHOLE STORY, WHICH THEN WASN'T A PART OF THE WESTCHESTER CASE.

'CAUSE THEY'RE A BOROUGH.

WHEN THE LEGISLATURE CREATED THIS AS A FEE FOR THE TOWNSHIPS, UH, IT ORIGINALLY WAS INTRODUCED FOR ALL KIND OF MUNICIPALITIES AND THEN THERE WAS POLITICAL WRANGLING AND FIRST CLASS TOWNSHIPS GOT DROPPED OFF AND BURROUGHS GOT DROPPED OFF.

AND SO IT CA SO THERE'S LANGUAGE THAT'S JUST FOR SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIPS.

THAT HASN'T EVEN REALLY BEEN YEAH.

TESTED.

I DON'T WANT TO BE A TEST CASE EITHER.

WELL, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU CHOOSE A PATH AND YOU, YOU GO ON IT, RIGHT? A IT GETS CHALLENGE.

IS IT LOW? IS IT AT A HIGH RISK OR A LOW RISK? I I THINK THE RISK IS KI I MEAN, IT, IT COSTS MONEY TO CHALLENGE LAWSUITS THAT WOULD A NON-PROFIT IF IT BECAME AN ISSUE, WOULD A NON-PROFIT SPEND MONEY TO SHIP PRINCIPLE WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FAIRLY LOW BILLS? AT WHAT POINT IS IT GONNA BE WORTH IT? YOU KNOW, YOU MAY GET A CLASS ACTION CHALLENGE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I DON'T KNOW.

BUT ANYWAY, I THINK I REMEMBER JOE'S BRINGING UP MEMBERS.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS UNTIL THE DOGS CAME BECAUSE WE JUST, AND THE SUPREME COURT WASN'T CLEAR ANYWAY.

WASN'T IT THREE THREE AND A ONE? YEAH.

AND, AND YOU KNOW, THE ONE, THE ONE PERSON KIND OF GAVE AN OPENING AND WELL, THEY, THEY KIND OF SAID, WELL, IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE STREET SWEEPING AND TREE PLANTING, MAYBE, I THINK IT WAS A FEE.

AND SO IT'S, IT JUST LEAVES EVERYTHING UP IN THE AIR.

'CAUSE IF IT GOT BACK UP TO THEM, WHO KNOWS WHERE THEY GO.

WHO KNOWS IF THAT COURT WOULD EVEN STILL BE THERE.

IT'S A, IT'S A TOUGH DECISION.

MADAM CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE MOVE FORWARD, UH, WITH THE OPERATING GROUP, THE WORKING GROUP PURSUING A FEE AND ADOPTING JEN'S STRATEGY OF TAKING THE EXISTING LIDAR R AND UPDATING IT FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS WORTH OF ACTIVITY.

SO, MOVED A SECOND.

YEAH, I'LL SECOND IT.

DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH TI IS THAT ENOUGH TIME? DO YOU HAVE UM, UM, WE'LL FIND OUT .

SURE.

UH, WHAT ABOUT CONSIDERING THE, THE SETTING, THE SPECIAL BUDGET MEETING? WE ALREADY COVERED THAT AND WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT RIGHT AWAY.

IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I MEAN, WE'VE ALREADY HALFWAY VOTED, BUT I TAKE IT THERE'S NO, NO VOTES.

SO, OKAY.

MOTION CARRIED.

[6. Consider setting special budget meeting to discuss next steps in the development and possible implementation of a stormwater fee program]

[00:25:01]

I THINK THAT KIND OF, I THINK JOHN KIND OF, UM, I'M JUST TRYING TO SEE HERE.

THAT MAY BE SOMETHING WE'LL WANT TO DO IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE, UH, UM, I KNOW THE, I THINK IF WE DO THIS AS A SMALL GROUP, WE WON'T NEED A SPECIAL BUDGET MEETING.

UM, WE'RE NOT OUR NEXT MEETING, WE'RE MEETING BIMONTHLY.

SO WHEN IS OUR NEXT MEETING? OCTOBER.

OCTOBER IS, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS OCTOBER, WE COULD PROBABLY HAVE THE, THE WORKING GROUP MEET BETWEEN NOW AND OCTOBER.

I HOPE.

MAYBE HAVE A RECOMMENDATION AT THE OCTOBER MEETING THAT I COULD SEE US MAYBE HAVING A WORK, MAYBE A, UH, US ATTENDING ONE OF THE BUDGET WORKSHOPS OF THE BOARD.

SO, SO I THINK SOMETHING WE NEED, JIM NEEDS TO UP, UH, GILMORE NEEDS TO UPDATE, UM, THE IMPERVIOUS.

DON, WE NEED TO THIS WE'RE, WE'LL BE STARTING OUR BUDGET MEETING SOON, SO WE'LL NEED TO COME UP WITH A STORMWATER BUDGET.

AND, UH, AND I THINK WE HAD A KIND OF A WORKING BUDGET LAST TIME, JEN, BUT WE, I THINK WE INCLUDED STREET SWEEPING AND SOME OTHER STUFF IN THERE.

I BELIEVE SO.

THAT WAS ALL ON THE HANDOUTS THAT I SAVED TWO MONTHS AGO, SO, SO WE'RE GOOD ON ITEM SIX? I THINK SO.

FOR RIGHT NOW.