* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] OH, BUT WHAT, WHAT'S GOING ON THERE? ALL RIGHT, [CALL TO ORDER / MOTION TO APPROVE JULY 1, 2026 AGENDA] I'M GONNA CALL THE ORDER THE JULY 1ST. HOW ABOUT THAT? JULY 1ST, UH, UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FOR UPPER PROVIDENCE. UM, AND WE'LL START WITH LOOKING AT THE AGENDA. IF EVERYBODY GOT THE AGENDA, IT WAS, IT'S IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM. IF YOU, IF YOU, UH, IF YOU, UH, HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO PICK ONE UP. UM, SO WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS LOOK AT THE AGENDA, GENTLEMEN, AND APPROVE IT. WE GOT THREE APPLICANTS ON TONIGHT, SO, UM, IF EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THAT, I NEED SOMEBODY TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR THE JULY 1ST UPPER PROVIDENCE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION. OKAY. WE GOT A MOTION? DO I HAVE A SECOND? UH, I'LL SECOND THAT. AND WE GOT A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OKAY. SO, UH, AFTER THE AGENDA, AND WE'LL GET TO THAT AS WE GO ALONG HERE, LET'S TALK ABOUT [PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AGENDA ITEMS] PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS. SO THERE'S THREE THINGS ON THE AGENDA. IF YOU HAVE A COMMENT ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE AGENDA ITEMS, THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO COME UP AND REAL LIKE WE HAVE A LADY THAT'S COMING HER WAY UP. JUST PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND NAME AND ADDRESS. HI, GOOD EVENING. UM, NOELLE DE FRE. 2 2 1 SOUTH MENNONITE ROAD. HI. HI. UH, WE WON'T BE LONG, I PROMISE. HI, UM, , I CAN COME UP TOO. , JOIN THE, JOIN THE FAMILY. OH, THANK YOU. UM, I WILL MAKE THIS QUICK. I AM HERE TONIGHT TO EXPRESS MY CONCERN OVER THE PROPOSED MAINLINE HEALTH HOSPITAL AND MEDICAL CAMPUS. UM, I'VE BEEN A RESIDENT OF UPPER PROVIDENCE FOR ALMOST 40 YEARS, AND OVER IN THAT TIME, I'VE SEEN IT OBVIOUSLY GO FROM LOTS OF FARMLAND AND OPEN SPACE TO JUST DEVELOPMENTS AND MORE DEVELOPMENTS AND SHOPPING CENTERS, AND NOW HIGH RISE APARTMENTS. UM, AND I FEEL LIKE SEEING A HOSPITAL PROPOSITION IN BASICALLY MY BACKYARD, UM, WAS A HUGE KIND OF WAKE UP CALL TO GET INVOLVED, UM, AND AT LEAST EXPRESS MY CONCERN. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS SUPPORT FOR THIS. UM, I WATCHED THE TWO PREVIOUS MEETINGS, AND I GET THAT. UM, I AM NOT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE . I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF I CAN ASK QUESTIONS AND GET ANSWERS TONIGHT, IS WELL, YOU CAN'T, WE CAN'T GIVE YOU ANY ANSWERS BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T PRESENTED TO US YET. WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY, YOU KNOW, THEY, ALL THEY DID IS SAY THEY'LL MAKE A PROPOSAL AND WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING YET. SO WE CAN TELL YOU A COUPLE THINGS THAT THEY'VE TOLD US. YEAH, BUT LIKE, THERE'S NO ACCESS FROM MENNONITE ROAD. OH, I, SO THEY TOOK THAT ACCESS ROAD, THE EMERGENCY ACCESS ROAD AWAY? NO, IT'S ACCESS ROAD, BUT IT'S NOT BE PUBLIC ACCESS. IT'S FOR EMERGENCIES AN RIGHT. YES, I UNDERSTAND THAT EMERGENCY, BUT NO PUBLIC ACCESS. RIGHT, I UNDERSTAND THAT. SO, SO WHERE I LIVE, MY HOME IS A, IS DIRECTLY ADJACENT. LIKE YOU CAN SEE IT ON THE PLANS THAT THEY PRESENTED AT THAT MEETING WHERE THEY DID THEIR BIG, BIG PRESENTATION. UM, AND SO OBVIOUSLY, I'M SURE YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I WOULD WANT TO HAVE IN THAT CLOSE PROXIMITY TO MY HOUSE, UM, WITH THE JUST CONSTANT, I MEAN, JUST THE, THE VISUAL OF IT, A SIX STORY HOSPITAL, UM, AMBULANCES WERE JUST RUNNING AROUND THE CLOCK. UM, SO AGAIN, I JUST WANTED TO EXPRESS MY CONCERN. UM, AND ALSO, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER PROPERTIES THAT, THAT HAVE BEEN LOOKED AT? OR, OR IS THIS IT, LIKE THIS IS, WE'RE GONNA CRAM A HOSPITAL INTO THIS LITTLE PIECE OF PROPERTY IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA? , THIS IS, THIS IS REALLY, THIS IS MAIN, THIS IS MAINLINE HEALTH'S, UH, RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY THINK THIS IS THE BEST. WE DON'T KNOW IF THEY'VE LOOKED AT ANYTHING ELSE. OKAY. IF THEY'VE EVEN, YOU KNOW, INSIDE THE TOWNSHIP OR OUTSIDE, WE DON'T KNOW. OKAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. WELL, THANK YOU. SORRY FOR THE WELL, NO OBJECTION CONCERNS. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WE APPRECIATE THAT. YEAH. PLEASE YOU TO LISTEN. I'M EXPECTING THEM TO BE ON AN AGENDA SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER. I MEAN, I KEEP, I KEEP EYE ON YEAH. PLEASE COME BACK. YEAH. YOU KNOW, AND, AND, AND TELL WHAT YOUR CONCERNS ARE. OKAY. IF IT'S TRAFFIC, IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO HELICOPTERS THEY'VE TOLD US. YEP, I KNOW THAT. YEP. OKAY. SO, YOU KNOW, PLEASE COME BACK AND, YOU KNOW, EXPRESS YOUR CONCERNS. THAT'S, YEP. THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT. WE HAVEN'T MADE ANY COMMENTS OR DECISIONS OR ANYTHING ON IT. YEAH. OKAY. ALL THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANKS FOR COMING. YEP. OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE ON NON AGENDA ITEMS? OKAY. NOT HEARING ANY. WE'RE GONNA MOVE [GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS] ON TO OUR, OH, WE GOT THE, UH, MEETING, MEETING MINUTES. OH, WE GOT MEETING MINUTES TONIGHT. SOMETIMES WE HAVE 'EM, SOMETIMES WE DON'T. UH, BUT WE GOT JUNE 3RD AND JUNE 17TH, WHICH WAS THE LAST TWO MEETINGS. SO [00:05:01] THEY'RE, I GUESS THEY'RE IN THIS PACKAGE, JEFF. YES, THEY ARE. SO HAS ANYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO GO THROUGH THEM AND MAKE ANY COMMENTS OR NON COMMENTS, OR, I THINK, I THINK THEY VERY ADEQUATELY, UH, PORTRAY WHAT WAS DISCUSSED. UH, AND SO THEREFORE I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE, UH, MEETING MINUTES FROM THE JUNE 3RD MEETING AND THE JUNE 17TH MEETING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. OKAY. SO WE'VE GOT A, UH, MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THOSE TWO MEETINGS. AND, UH, UM, I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT 'EM, BUT I, FROM PAST EXPERIENCE WITH PATTY, UH, SHE DOES A GREAT JOB. WE KNOW SHE, UH, PUTS A LOT OF TIME ON IT. SO, UH, I'LL TAKE A SECOND. UH, I LOOK THEM OVER, TOM, AND I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION. THEY LOOK FINE. ALL GREAT. SO WE GOT A MOTION A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. SO, OKAY. SO WE'VE APPROVED THE MINUTES FROM THOSE TWO MEETINGS, UM, [APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON JULY 1, 2026] AND NOW WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE FIRST APPLICANT TONIGHT. AND THE FIRST APPLICANT IS A COMPANY CALLED CLUB STUDIO, AND THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A WAIVER ON SOME PAINTING. AND SO HE'S GONNA EXPLAIN THAT TO US, RIGHT? YES, SIR. I AM ANTHONY WEBER. I'M AN ARCHITECT AND, UH, WORK, UH, FOR FITNESS INTERNATIONAL, THE PARENT COMPANY FOR CLUB STUDIO. UH, CLUB STUDIO IS IN FACT A RENOVATION AND, AND REBRANDING OF THE PREVIOUS LA FITNESS. UM, AT THIS LOCATION, UH, CLUB STUDIO IS A NEW BRAND OF LA FITNESS. IT IS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF, OF, I'M SORRY, YOU SAID IT'S A BRAND OF LA FITNESS, IT, I'M SORRY. A FITNESS INTERNATIONAL. OH, OKAY. UM, UM, THE NEW BRAND OF CLUB STUDIO ADDRESSES THE, UH, DIFFERENT APPROACH TO FITNESS, UM, FACILITY AND THE OFFERINGS. UM, THE EXISTING, UM, BUILDING, UM, IS THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING IS COMPRISED OF, OF EXISTING MASONRY, RED BRICK MASONRY, AND, AND THE NEW SIGNAGE, UH, AND THE BRAND SIGNAGE IS, UH, A BLACK LETTER ON A LIGHTER BACKGROUND. AND SO WHAT, UH, WE WISH TO, TO DEMONSTRATE IS THAT THE, UH, THE UPPER IMAGE, THIS WOULD BE THE, UM, THE VISUAL OF THE SIGNAGE ON THE EXISTING MASONRY, UH, FACADE. AND BELOW IS THE PROPOSED SIGNAGE ON A LIGHTER BACKGROUND, WHICH WOULD BE NEWLY PAINTED MASONRY. THE PREMISE OF THAT, THE PLANNING COMMISSION THAT, UM, IN THIS PARTICULAR CENTER, THAT, UM, MATERIALS BE OF A NATURAL EARTH RANGE OF COLOR TO INTERRUPT FOR A SECOND. YES. UM, WITHIN OUR ORDINANCE, WE HAVE A SECTION FOUR WITH SUBDIVISION LAND DEVELOPMENT. SO IT'S NOT ZONING. SO THEIR RELIEF TO NOT COMPLY IS A WAIVER REQUEST. RIGHT. THEY'RE REQUESTING A WAIVER FROM SECTION J AND SECTION K OF TWO 70 DASH 70. AND THO THAT BASICALLY SAYS DOMINANT FACADE COLOR SHALL BE COMPLIMENTARY TO THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF THE BUILDING, UM, SHALL BE SUBMITTED, THE TOWNSHIP FOR APPROVAL. HIGH INTENSITY COLORS, METALLIC COLORS, AND BLACK ARE PROHIBITED. THEY'RE ASKING TO PUT BLACK ON PART OF THE PROPERTY. IT SAYS TRIM AND ACCENT COLORS SHOULD BE COMPLIMENTARY. THE FACADE, THIS IS SECTION K, UM, YOU KNOW, SUBJECT TO SPECIAL COLORS, UTILIZE THE BRANDING CONSIDERATION BY THE TOWNSHIP. SO THE REASON THEY'RE HERE TODAY IS THAT THEY NEED A WAIVER FROM, UM, THOSE TWO REQUIREMENTS. AND I KNOW I WAS REAL BRIEF ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE, BUT GENERALLY WHEN I GET BACK TO THE POWERPOINT HERE IN A SECOND, YOU CAN SEE THAT THEIR SUGGESTION WITH THE DARK GRAY BLACK, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE TO BE SPECIFIC IN LETTER OF THE LAW. THEY WOULD NEED A WAIVER FROM THAT. AND THEN THEY WOULD THE, THE, THE WHITE COLOR IS NOT EARTH TONE CENTER. ALSO, AS I SAID, DESIGN GUIDELINES, THIS DOES NOT FIT WITHIN, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY ENFORCEMENT ABILITY REALLY. BUT THIS IS OUR, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE WOULD SUGGEST, WHAT WE NEED FROM YOU TONIGHT REALLY IS JUST A RECOMMENDATION ON HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT, WHETHER THE BOARD SHOULD APPROVE THE WAIVER OR NOT, LIKE ANY OTHER WAIVER, YOU KNOW, IF YOU FEEL THE BOARD SHOULD RECOMMEND IT OR NOT. I, I THINK MR. WEBER CAN EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE WHY THEY NEED TO DO THIS, UM, WHAT THEIR SUGGESTIONS ARE. AND, BUT THAT'S GENERALLY WHY WE'RE HERE TONIGHT. BUT THE, BUT THE PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER THEMSELVES, DO THEY HAVE AN ISSUE WITH [00:10:01] THIS? NO, SIR. DO THEY, DO THEY, IS THIS, DO THEY HAVE POSITION? THE PPLICANT EXPRESSED TO ME THAT THEY DON'T, THEY EXPRESS TO ME THAT THEY'RE NOT SO SURE ABOUT THE COLORS AND THEY'RE NOT A FAN OF THEM. BUT AGAIN, THEY'RE NOT HERE TONIGHT TO, AS FAR AS I KNOW, TO ARGUE THE POINT. SO I'M GONNA SAY THAT THEY DON'T. OKAY. THEY MAY NOT LIKE IT, BUT THEY'RE NOT GONNA FIGHT IT EITHER. WELL, 'CAUSE THEY LIKE RENT. RIGHT. I WAS JUST LIKE, HOW MANY, HOW MANY TENANTS ARE THEY GONNA FIGHT ON AND WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, LIKE RENT. RIGHT. LET'S BE REALISTIC. SO, UH, OKAY. SO YOU WANNA EXPLAIN WHY, WHY YOU WANTED HAVE THIS COLOR? OR IS IT, IT AGAIN? IT IS THE BRANDING. IT IS IS THE BRANDING. IT IS THE NEW BRANDING. SO YOU'RE TELLING ME OTHER CLUB STUDIOS AROUND THE COUNTRY OR OTHER ARE THIS TYPE OF YES. ARE MOVING TO LOOKS LIKE THAT. YES. UM, I WOULD ALSO JUST LIKE TO MENTION THAT, UH, ALSO WITHIN THE SAME DEVELOPMENT OR ADJACENT TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE TOWN CENTER, THERE ARE SOME MORE, UH, SOME MORE RECENT, I THINK, UH, CONSTRUCTION, UH, PARTICULARLY AN APARTMENT BUILDING. AND I'M SORRY, I DON'T HAVE THE NAME OF THAT. WELL, WE KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. AND IT HAS A LIGHT ABOUT THAT ONE TOO. AND IT HAS A LIGHTER, UH, I GUESS HERE YOU CAN SEE IN THE LOWER MM-HMM . AND UPPER LEFT, IT HAS A, YOU KNOW, A LIGHTER COLOR SCHEME. SO, UM, WE FEEL THAT THE CONCEPT IS, UH, OF THE NEW IS, IS NOT A FAR REACH FROM WHAT SEEMS TO BE A, AN EVOLUTION OF, OF DESIGN. SO JUST AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOP RIGHT ONE, ONE, IT SAYS LA FITNESS. YES, I UNDERSTAND WHERE IT SAYS LA FITNESS. YOU WANNA PAINT THAT WHITE AND BLACK LETTERS. WHAT OTHER PART OF THE BUILDING GETS PAINTED? UH, WELL, THAT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT, YEAH, THAT WAS, THAT'S THE, THAT WAS, LET'S GO BACK TO THE OTHER ONE. THE EXISTING, YES. I'M JUST TRYING TO GET AN IDEA OF WHAT GETS PAINTED HERE. SO THE, THE ENTIRE FACADE. THE WHOLE FACADE. SO IF YOU WOULD SAY THAT THERE'S THREE PRIMARY ELEMENTS. THE BACK FACE, THE PRIMARY, UM, UH, BOX, UH, OF THE BUILDING, UH, A LIGHTER COLOR. THE DARKER FRONT, UH, IS THE ARCADE, UM, THAT PROTRUDE THAT SITS OFF THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. AND THEN THE, UM, RADIUS, UM, UH, CENTER PIECE THAT HAS, AS YOU CAN SEE, THE CROWN. WHAT WAS AGAIN, SORT OF A DESIGN ELEMENT OF, OF THE, OF, OF THE LEF FITNESS MODEL HAS BEEN REMOVED AND THE BUILDING SOMEWHAT SIMPLIFIED OVERALL. WELL, I'M CONFUSED WITH ALL THE PICTURES I HAVE HERE. IS THIS THE, THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE CURRENT BUILDING? OR IS IT THE ONE THAT HAS A VERY LONG CLUB STUDIO? UH, THE IS IS THIS, IS THIS THE CURRENT, YOU KNOW, THE UPPER PICTURE I JUST TOOK LAST WEEK BECAUSE THEY HAD TO INSTALL THE SIGN JUST BECAUSE OF SCHEDULE. SO THAT IS THE ACTUAL SIGNAGE. SO THIS PICTURE IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT THE TWO DON'T MATCH? THAT IS CORRECT. BECAUSE WHAT IS BELOW IS WHAT IS PROPOSED. NO, NO, NO, NO. I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE BUILDING ITSELF. THIS PICTURE DOESN'T HAVE ANY, ANY PROTRUSION THAT HAS BEEN REMOVED. SO, SO THIS IS THE CURRENT BUILDING WITH A NEW PINK STREET EX? YES, SIR. SO THE OTHER, OKAY, SO THE OTHER PICTURE THAT I SEE IS NOT OKAY. AND THE BLACK, WHICH I, I WROTE PAST HER JUST TODAY TO LOOK AT IT, THE BLACK IS, IS WHAT YOU WANT, BUT THEN YOU WANT PAINT THE UNDERLYING WHITE. YES, THE WHITE, THE, THE, THE SIGNAGE ITSELF IS DEEP CHANNEL, UH, BLACK METAL. I JUST DROVE PAST IT TODAY. OKAY. JEFF, THERE'S NOTHING IN THE ORDINANCE THAT, UH, EXPLICITLY SAYS THE COLORS NEED TO BE EARTH TONE FOR THIS. NO, IT, IT SAYS IT HAS TO BE COMPLIMENTARY COMPLI, UM, TO BE COMPLIMENTARY TO THE FACADE TREATMENT ARE SUBJECT TO APPROVAL BY THE TOWNSHIP. UM, IT DOES SPECIFICALLY SAY HIGH INTENSITY COLORS, METALLIC COLORS AND BLACK ARE PROHIBITED. AND I WAS GONNA ASK THAT QUESTION AT THE JUMP ON JERRY, WHY BLACK WAS PROHIBITED, WHY BLACK? I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHY THESE WERE WRITTEN BACK IN 2008. I I THINK IT WAS REALLY JUST THAT, THAT FROM A, FROM AN ARCHITECTURAL, FROM A STANDPOINT OF WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING AT FOR THE OVERALL DEVELOPMENT OF THAT, I THINK IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AT THE TIME JUST MORE EARTH TONE, MORE, YOU KNOW, FOR TOWN CENTER. SPECIFICALLY FOR TOWN CENTER, SPECIFICALLY THE TOWN CENTER SPECIFICALLY. NOW, I HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH, UM, KPR, WHO'S THE OWNER OF IT AND SAID, LOOK, WE CAN AMEND THESE THINGS. YOU JUST NEED TO COME IN AND TELL ME WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. [00:15:01] AND THEY HAVE YET TO DO THAT. UM, WE RAN INTO A LITTLE BIT OF AN ISSUE WITH HARVEST, BECAUSE HARVEST SORT OF PAINTED THEIR BUILDING OVER THE WEEKEND, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WAY OF PUTTING IT. AND THEY DON'T COMPLY EITHER. BUT WE DIDN'T GO BACK. RIGHT. BECAUSE OF, SO AGAIN, THIS IS THE FORMALITY OF IT. YEAH. UM, MORE THAN ANYTHING. YEAH, BECAUSE WHAT, WHAT I WAS WONDERING WAS, YOU KNOW, WAS THERE SOMETHING IN PLACE THAT SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERY TENANT IN THAT, UH, DEVELOPMENT NEEDED DID ADHERE TO CERTAIN STANDARDS, LIKE A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION? RIGHT. RIGHT. UH, AND WHAT, WHAT I, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT MIGHT, MIGHT BE A CONCERN WAS IF, UH, A WAIVER'S APPROVED TO PERMIT A DEPARTURE FROM THAT PALLET OF MATERIALS THAT THEN IT SETS A PRECEDENT FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR OTHER TENANTS IN THE DEVELOPMENT TO OR IN THAT CENTER TO JUST KIND OF DO THEIR OWN THING. AND THEN YOU END UP WITH A HODGEPODGE. BUT, UH, IF, IF IT'S, YEAH, BUT WOULDN'T THAT BE, WOULDN'T THAT BE, UM, AT THAT POINT, IF THAT HAPPENS, AND WE DON'T KNOW, OBVIOUSLY HAR JUST DID IT, BUT IF, UH, WOULDN'T THAT BE, UH, TOWN CENTER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO, TO POLICE THAT A LITTLE BIT? I, I, I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, BECAUSE, AND I'VE EXPRESSED THAT TO THEM, THAT IT, THAT MAYBE THEY, WHEN THEY BOUGHT THE PLACE, THEY BOUGHT IT WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES IN PLACE, AND IT'S THEIR JOB TO LET THE USERS KNOW YEAH. CURRENT OR FUTURE USERS KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE SIGNAGE REQUIREMENTS, WITH THE BANNER REQUIREMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THEY SAY, WELL, WE DO AND WE, WE WILL AND ALL THAT. THIS ONE, I THINK, HAS JUST BEEN PUSHED A LITTLE HARDER FROM CLUB STUDIO FOR THEIR BRANDING. RIGHT. AND SO, SO, AND BECAUSE OUR ORDINANCE SAYS NO BLACK, NO BLACK, RIGHT. YEAH. I MEAN, I, I, I'M, I DON'T FIND THE, THE SCHEME OFFENSIVE AT ALL. I THINK IT'S, IT'S HANDSOME. NOT AT ALL. BUT I WAS JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THAT DEPARTURE FROM A PERCEIVED STANDARD. WELL, AND, AND SETTING A PRECEDENT. AND, AND I DON'T THINK WE REALLY, I DON'T THINK AN INDIVIDUAL DECISION BY A PLANNING COMMISSION WHERE A BOARD SETS A PRECEDENT. I THINK I DON'T EITHER. THAT'S MY POINT. YEAH. I'M SAYING AT THAT POINT, IF YOU THINK THERE'S A PRECEDENT AND PEOPLE START PAINTING THINGS ALL KINDS OF, THEN THAT'S WHERE I THINK TOWN CENTER NEEDS TO STEP IN AND SAY, WHOA, MAYBE SO. AND OCCASIONALLY THEY HAVE, THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER USERS THAT HAVE COME IN WITH SOME DESIGNS, AND I'VE SAID, NO, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT EVEN REMOTELY COMPLIES. AND THEY, THEY'VE GONE BACK TO THE USERS. I THINK, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR YOUR EMPLOYER, BUT I JUST THINK THAT THERE'S BEEN MORE PUSHBACK FROM THIS USER THAN YOU GET FROM A TYPICAL USER. RIGHT. BUT THIS THING IS CERTAINLY NOT HIDEOUS OR, YOU KNOW, OFFENSIVE OR ANYTHING . IT'S, YOU KNOW, AND I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY SPECIFICALLY THEY MENTIONED BLACK. I MEAN, I, I THINK IT WAS JUST PRETTY PRIMARY COLOR. I THINK IT WAS JUST THE DESIGN AT THE TIME. AND I MEAN, WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN, THERE WAS A LOT OF DEBATE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE WANT COMPLIMENTARY MATERIALS. AND I DON'T THINK THEY WANTED A BUILDING TO BE ABLE TO BE PAINTED BLACK. RIGHT. OR FOR A LOT OF, OF TRIM WORK TO BE BLACK, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I THINK THEY WANTED A LOT OF EARTH TONES, A LOT OF MILD COLORS. SO WHAT'S OUR, WHAT, WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO HERE, JEFF? MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, WHETHER THEY APPROVE OR NOT APPROVE THE WAIVER REQUEST. JUST TO, JUST TO COMMENT. I THINK IT'S A, SHANE, YOU'RE GONNA CUT DOWN THOSE BIG TREES BASED ON THESE PICTURES. , I JUST THOUGHT I'D MAKE A COMMENT. I, I DON'T KNOW. THE, UM, JUST, JUST, JUST A COMMENT. , I, I, I CAN TELL YOU LA FIT OR FITNESS INTERNATIONAL DIDN'T DO IT. I, UM, SO, SO, UM, I'LL TAKE A MOTION EITHER WAY HERE FROM SOMEBODY THAT SAYS, YES, WE ARE GOING TO SEND THIS FOR APPROVAL TO THE SUPERVISORS OR THAT WE ARE NOT. SO, UH, WHATEVER YOUR STANCE WOULD BE PERSONALLY, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO MAKE THAT PROPOSAL. AND AGAIN, YOU, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE, WE'RE, WE'RE GOING TO RECOMMEND TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS THAT THIS IS APPROVED. YES. IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WILL WAIVER, WAIVER REQUEST WAIVER. YEAH. IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WILL APPROVE THE WAIVER. UNDERSTOOD. WE'RE GONNA RECOMMEND OR NOT RECOMMEND THAT IT IS OR ISN'T. OKAY. I UNDERSTAND. SOMEBODY WANNA MAKE THAT MOTION BASED ON YOUR PERSONAL, UH, UH OR DO YOU WANT ME TO DO IT? OR WHAT? GO AHEAD. I THINK BASED ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, I MEAN, I, I'M HAPPY TO MAKE THE MOTION THAT, UH, WE MOVE THIS FORWARD TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WITH A RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE THE WAIVER. ALRIGHT. SO I'VE GOT A MOTION FOR JERRY TO APPROVE THIS AS A WAIVER, UH, TO OUR BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. UM, UM, DO I HAVE A SECOND OR DO I HAVE AN OPINION DIFFERENT? I'LL SECOND THAT. AND ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. I THINK YOU ALL AGREE THAT OKAY. IT'S FAIR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. BE ON THE 20TH OF JULY. THANK YOU FOR THE BOARD. GOOD EVENING. THANK YOU. YEAH, YOU CAN STICK AROUND IF YOU WANT. WELL, I MIGHT, I JUST MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. THAT'S WHAT WE DO. WE MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO OUR FRIENDS. UH, AND I CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR ABOUT THIS. I JUST, UH, THIS JUST, THIS JUST FASCINATES ME. [00:20:01] THIS CAR WASH PHENOMENA THAT WE GOT GOING ON HERE IN OUR TOWNSHIP, NOT JUST, NOT JUST UPPER PROVINCE. WELL, I, BUT I ONLY WORRY ABOUT UPPER PROVIDENCE . I KNOW. UN UNDERSTOOD. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE TELL US WHAT EXCELLENT MAKES SENSE HERE. WELL, GOOD EVENING. UM, ROB LEWIS FROM KAPLAN STEWART, UH, I REPRESENT BAINBRIDGE OAKS, LLC, UH, WHO IS THE OWNER, UH, OF THE PROPERTY AT 1 0 6 BLACKROCK ROAD. I ALSO REPRESENT L CAR WASH, THE PROPOSED TENANT OF THE PROPERTY. UM, I'M SORRY, THE NAME IS GONNA BE L CAR. L-E-L-E-L. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I WILL HAVE GABE DESCRIBE THAT FOR YOU WHEN HE COMES UP. I, I HAVE A WHOLE TEAM WITH ME TONIGHT. HOLD ON. I CAN . ALRIGHT. SO IN FRONT OF YOU. TECHNICALLY THIS EVENING IS REALLY, REALLY A TWO-PRONGED APPLICATION. UM, WE HAVE FILED A SKETCH PLAN, UM, WHICH IS ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW. UM, BUT WE HAVE ALSO, UM, FILED A PETITION TO REQUEST, UH, THE EXTINGUISHMENT OF AN EXISTING DEED RESTRICTION ON THE PROPERTY. AND I BELIEVE BASED ON MY CONVERSATIONS WITH JEFF, THAT PLANNING COMMISSION GENERALLY TONIGHT, UM, IS ONLY REALLY KIND OF ADDRESSING THE RECOMMENDATION ON, UH, THE POTENTIAL EXTINGUISHMENT OF THAT DEED RESTRICTION. WE'RE HAPPY TO GET INTO THE PLAN AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD LIKE. WE DO HAVE OUR CIVIL ENGINEER, OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER, UM, HERE WITH US THIS EVENING TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE. UM, AND AS I MENTIONED, WE HAVE GABE, GABE SHUKMAN FROM EL CAR WASH. I DO ALSO HAVE THE UNDERLYING PROPERTY OWNER HERE WITH ME, IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS THAT I CAN'T ANSWER OR HE CAN'T ANSWER. UM, BUT BEFORE KIND OF GETTING TO THEM, I'LL TRY AND PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND AND MAYBE JEFF CAN HELP ME WITH SOME OF THE EXHIBITS AS WE KIND OF GO THROUGH THAT. UM, I PERSONALLY HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN INVOLVED WITH THIS PROPERTY NOW FOR CLOSE TO 20 YEARS. UM, I REPRESENTED THE CURRENT TENANT, UM, TOM AND ANGELA BACH, UH, WHEN THEY WERE SEEKING THEIR APPROVALS, UM, TO CONSTRUCT THE EXISTING UNO CHICAGO GRILL. UM, SO HOPEFULLY THAT EXTENSIVE EXPERIENCE WITH THE PROPERTY, UH, WILL BE A LITTLE BIT HELPFUL IN PROVIDING SOME BACKGROUND AND MAYBE ALLOWING ME TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS, UM, THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MIGHT HAVE. THE HISTORY LEADING US, UM, TO TODAY, I THINK REALLY STARTS BACK IN THE EARLY TWO THOUSANDS, UH, FOR ANYONE THAT WAS IN OAKS, UM, BACK, UH, IN THAT TIMEFRAME, IT WAS MUCH DIFFERENT THAN IT IS TODAY. UM, I STARTED SPENDING A LOT OF TIME PERSONALLY IN OAKS, UH, AROUND 1998. UH, I WAS A MEMBER OF THE PHILADELPHIA ROCK GYM, ONE OF THEIR ORIGINAL MEMBERS, UM, WHICH WAS TUCKED AWAY BACK IN THE INDUSTRIAL FACILITY. UM, AND I WAS A MEMBER THERE FOR OVER 20 YEARS. AND I WAS LIVING IN LIMERICK, SO I WAS A FREQUENTER OF OAKS, UM, FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. UM, ON THE SCREEN IS AN AERIAL FROM 2002, UM, SHOWING WHAT OAKS LOOKED LIKE BACK THEN. UM, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, UH, EVEN THOUGH OBVIOUSLY IT WAS NOW AT THE INTERCHANGE OF THE 4 22 BYPASS, OAKS WAS RELATIVELY UNDEVELOPED. UM, THE INDUSTRIAL FACILITY OBVIOUSLY WAS THERE, ARNOLD'S GO-KARTS. UM, THE MOVIE THEATER HAD RECENTLY BEEN, UH, CONSTRUCTED AND THERE WERE A FEW OTHER, UM, SMALL, UM, UH, COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES OUT THERE. THERE'S AN OLD PIZZA PLACE, I THINK THE OAKS ITALIAN DELI WAS, WAS SITTING THERE AT THE CORNER OF MILL WHERE THE, UH, STARBUCKS, STARBUCKS IS. STARBUCKS IS NOW. YEAH. SO THAT WAS, UH, THAT WAS OUR PIZZA SPOT AFTER THE CLIMBING GYM. BUT ANYWAY, IT LOOKED MUCH DIFFERENT. IN FACT, UM, 1 0 6 BLACKROCK ROAD, UH, AND THE PROPERTIES BEHIND IT WERE STILL A CULTIVATED FIELD BACK THEN, I THINK THERE WAS A LANDSCAPING BUSINESS WHERE THE, UH, WAWA AND BUFFALO WILD WINGS ARE, UM, SO MUCH DIFFERENT. UM, FOR SURE. AND IT'S AMAZING HOW FAST. YEAH. 20 YEARS WENT BY PRETTY QUICKLY. YEAH. HOW FAST WE JUST FORGET WHAT IT, WHAT IT WAS. YEAH. UM, IN, IN, YOU KNOW, MUCH OF THE LAND ON THE NORTH SIDE OF EGYPT ROAD, UM, AT THE TIME, UH, WAS STILL ZONED RESIDENTIAL. UM, IN 2004, UH, THE THEN OWNERS OF THAT PROPERTY, UH, ON THE NORTH SIDE OF EGYPT ROAD ACTUALLY SOUGHT AND EVENTUALLY OBTAINED, UH, A REZONING, UH, OF THEIR PROPERTIES, UH, TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONVENIENCE COMMERCIAL, UH, ZONING DISTRICT. UM, AT THE TIME THOSE PLAYERS WERE PHIL, RIGHT NOWER AND AUDUBON LAND. UM, OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS, UH, THOSE OWNERS, OR IN THE CASE OF MR RIGHT NOW OR HIS TENANT, UM, TOM AND ANGELA BACH, UH, SOUGHT THE PERMITS AND APPROVALS NECESSARY FOR REDEVELOPMENT, UH, OF ALL THEIR PROPERTIES. I BELIEVE. UH, THE UNOS, UH, WE ACTUALLY FINALLY GOT APPROVED, UM, BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IN 2008. UM, BUT IT WASN'T ACTUALLY CONSTRUCTED AND OPENED UNTIL 2013. UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF OUTSIDE AGENCY PERMITS. THERE'S A LOT OF COORDINATION BETWEEN, UH, THE AUDUBON LAND DEVELOPMENTS, BOTH THE WAWA SIDE AS WELL AS THEY OWN THE PIECE OF GROUND SURROUNDING THE UNOS, UM, AT THE SAME PO UH, TIME, UM, UH, AS [00:25:01] ALL THAT WAS HAPPENING, REALLY THE OAKS AREA WAS, UM, WAS COMING TO LIFE, UM, AT THAT TIME. AND SO WAS OBVIOUSLY EVERYTHING UP AND DOWN THE 4 22, UH, CORRIDOR, UM, YOU KNOW, OTHER PROJECTS THAT CAME ONLINE DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME. YOU CAN SEE EVEN IN 2002, THEY HAD JUST STARTED CONSTRUCTION ON THE LOWE'S ON THE TARGET. UM, AS WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, EVENTUALLY THE, UH, OAKS ITALIAN DELI BECAME STARBUCKS. UM, A LOT HAS CHANGED. AND I INCLUDED I THINK AN AERIAL, UM, PRETTY CLOSE TO TODAY FROM 2026. SO IT LOOKS SUBSTANTIALLY DIFFERENT, UH, TODAY THAN IT DID BACK IN THE EARLY TWO THOUSANDS. SO, FAST FORWARD TO PRESENT DAY AND, AND THE UNOS RESTAURANT LEASE IS ACTUALLY EXPIRING, UH, AT THE END OF THIS SUMMER. UH, AND THEY HAVE NOT RENEWED THAT LEASE. UM, THIS IS A TREND THAT WE ARE SEEING IN CASUAL DINING INDUSTRY. UH, HERE IN THE TOWNSHIP ALONE. BOB EVANS HAS CLOSED, PF CHANG'S HAS CLOSED. UM, SO IT IS A, UH, AN UNFORTUNATE TREND WE ARE SEEING, BUT PART OF THAT ISN'T JUST, IT'S NOT THAT PEOPLE AREN'T GOING OUT TO EAT, UM, BUT THE MODELS FOR RESTAURANTS ARE CHANGING, UH, AND SOME OF THOSE FACILITIES SIMPLY DON'T ACCOMMODATE THE NEW TENANTS. AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE HAVE HERE. UM, THE, UH, THE UNO'S FACILITY IS MORE THAN 8,000 SQUARE FEET, UM, OF, UH, OF GROSS FLOOR AREA. AND THAT, THAT SIZE REALLY IS NOT ATTRACTIVE TO CURRENT RESTAURANT TENANTS. UM, TOO LARGE, TOO LARGE, UM, IN FACT, MOST ARE LOOKING SOMETHING MORE IN THE 5,000 SQUARE FOOT RANGE. UM, SO MY CLIENT HAS BEEN DILIGENTLY LOOKING TO REPLACE THE UNO'S TENANT. UM, WE'VE HAD PROSPECTIVE RESTAURANT TENANTS, UH, THAT HAVE COME, BUT THEY HAVE QUICKLY GONE AWAY. THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN AN 8,000 SQUARE FOOT SPACE. UM, WE HAVE LOOKED AT A HOST OF OTHER POTENTIAL REUSES OF THE SITE, UH, ALL OF WHICH REALLY REQUIRE DEMOLITION OF THAT BUILDING AND STARTING FROM SCRATCH. UM, BUT A VERY ATTRACTIVE TO US TENANT, UH, HAS COME ALONG AND WE BELIEVE IT ACTUALLY WILL BE A WONDERFUL FIT, UH, FOR THIS SITE. AND THAT'S THE L CAR WASH. I WILL LET GABE, UM, TELL YOU MORE ABOUT THEIR USE. UM, SUFFICE IT TO SAY THEIR FACILITY IS NOT KIND OF WHAT POPS INTO MY HEAD AT LEAST. UM, WHEN I THINK OF CAR WASHES WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER, THINKING MORE OF A DINGY NEXT TO A GAS STATION TYPE OF CAR WASH, YOU WILL SEE THAT IS NOT AT ALL, UH, WHAT EL CAR WASH IS ALL ABOUT. UM, BUT THAT HAS ME COME BACK, UM, AND I'M SORRY FOR THE LONG-WINDED EXPLANATION, BUT REALLY COME BACK TO 2004 AND WHY WE'RE IN FRONT OF YOU. BECAUSE BACK IN 2004, UH, WHEN PHIL WRIGHT NOWER AND AUDUBON LAND, UM, ENTERED INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE REZONING OF THEIR PROPERTIES, UM, THEY ENTERED INTO AN AGREEMENT THAT HAD CERTAIN STIPULATIONS, UH, THAT ALLOWED FOR THAT REZONING, BUT RESTRICTED CERTAIN USES GOING FORWARD ON THOSE PROPERTIES. UM, A CAR WASH, RIGHT? MM-HMM . THERE YOU GO. YOU YOU TOOK MY PUNCHLINE. BUT, UH, THOSE ARE IT. AND, AND IT GOES BEYOND THAT, QUITE FRANKLY. THE RESTRICTED USES INCLUDE FAST FOOD, UM, DRIVE THROUGH FACILITIES, AND AS YOU'LL HEAR TONIGHT, A CAR WASH. I FIND IT INTERESTING LOOKING BACK NOW, THAT DESPITE THAT RESTRICTION, WHICH APPLIES TO 1 0 6 BLACKROCK ROAD, AS WELL AS WHAT I CALL THE PACMAN SURROUNDING THE DOT, UM, WHICH IS, UH, HAS BEEN DEVELOPED NOW AS A DUNKING DONUTS AND A BANK, BOTH OF WHICH WERE SUBJECT TO THAT SAME DEED RESTRICTION, AND BOTH OF WHICH HAVE USES ON THEM THAT DO NOT COMPLY WITH THAT DEED RESTRICTION. UM, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, I THINK, AT LEAST FROM A PLANNING COMMISSION'S PERSPECTIVE, IS HOW OAKS HAS CHANGED SINCE 2004. IN 2004, IT'S VERY POSSIBLE THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS SAID OAKS IS STILL KIND OF SLEEPY. UM, WE DON'T WANT TO NECESSARILY SEE AUTOCENTRIC USES DOMINATING, UM, THE INTERCHANGE, BUT AS WE ALL KNOW, THAT'S REALLY WHAT HAPPENS AT INTERCHANGES AND THAT'S WHAT HAS HAPPENED AT OAKS. VERY AUTOCENTRIC TYPES OF USES, WHETHER IT'S THE WAWA OR THE WENDY'S OR THE BUFFALO WILD WINGS AND THE VARIOUS OTHER USES THAT HAVE NOW GONE IN AT THAT INTERCHANGE. UM, SO WHAT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATE, UM, IN 2004, UH, WE DON'T NECESSARILY THINK CARRIES THE DAY. SO RECOGNIZING THAT THAT 20 YEAR CHANGE IN OAKS, UM, WE DO BELIEVE THAT THIS USE, UH, WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR OUR SITE. UH, AND WE NEED TO SEEK, UH, FROM THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AN EXTINGUISHMENT OR AT LEAST AN AMENDMENT, UM, TO THAT, UH, DEED RESTRICTION TO ALLOW L CAR WASHES USE. ONE MORE THING BEFORE I GET, UH, TO GABE, WHO WILL WALK YOU THROUGH THEIR USE. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT, I THINK, FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO UNDERSTAND, I KNOW YOU KNOW YOUR ROLE BECAUSE THERE'S, YOU DO RECOMMENDATIONS ON LAND DEVELOPMENTS ALL THE TIME. THIS IS MERELY THE FIRST STEP, UM, IN [00:30:01] WHAT WOULD BE A, A SIGNIFICANT PROCESS. EVEN IF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, UH, WERE TO, UH, AMEND OR EXTINGUISH, UM, THAT DEED RESTRICTION, WE WOULD ACTUALLY STILL NEED TO GO TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD. UM, MUCH LIKE I BELIEVE THERE'S A CAR WASH UP ON RIDGE PIKE IN THE SAME ZONING DISTRICT THAT WAS RECENTLY APPROVED. I THINK IT'S EVEN ON YOUR LAND DEVELOPMENT AGENDA. SO WE WOULD HAVE TO ATTEND THE ZONING HEARING BOARD AND OBTAIN ZONING RELIEF. UM, BUT THEN WE WOULD ALSO, AFTER ALL OF THAT BE BACK IN FRONT OF YOU HOPEFULLY WITH A FULL LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN. UM, SO WE HAVE INCLUDED OBVIOUSLY THE SKETCH PLAN SO YOU CAN GET A SENSE OF HOW IT WOULD LAY OUT ON THE SITE, HOW IT WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH THE USERS OF, YOU KNOW, THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES. UM, BUT THERE'S A LONG WAY TO GO AND THAT SITE PLAN IS CERTAINLY NOT FINALIZED, WOULD PROBABLY REQUIRE SOME SIGNIFICANT REVISIONS. UM, BUT WE WANTED TO INCLUDE AT LEAST A LAYOUT SO YOU COULD GET A SENSE, UH, OF HOW IT WOULD FIT WITHIN OUR SPACE. UH, SO WITH THAT, I'LL TURN IT OVER. I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR YOU. SURE. UM, THESE GUYS MIGHT HAVE SOME TOO. SO OR WHAT TO YOUR, YOUR THAT I, I THINK I HEARD YOU CORRECTLY SAY THE PERSON THAT UNO, PEOPLE THAT OWN UNO OR THE FRANCHISE, IS THAT A FRANCHISE? IT IS. THEY DON'T OWN THE PROPERTY. CORRECT? THEY'RE A TENANT THAT'S A DIFFERENT OWNER. OKAY. UH, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I WAS CLEAR ON THAT. SECONDLY, ALL PART OF YOUR ARGUMENT FOR THIS WAIVER OR THIS ALLOWANCE FOR THIS, UH, BEING THAT IT WAS BACK IN 2002 OR WHATEVER, NO CAR WASHES PLUS OTHER THINGS, IS THAT IT HAS CHANGED. AND YOU'VE GOT THE DUNKING, YOU'VE GOT THE WENDY'S, YOU'VE GOT THE BANKS ALL HAVE DRIVE-THROUGHS, STARBUCKS AND STARBUCKS, AND, AND THAT HAS ALL BEEN APPROVED AND SUCCESSFUL AND WORKING WELL. SO YOUR PART OF YOUR ARGUMENT IS THAT THIS IS JUST ANOTHER STEP IN THAT SAME LINE? THAT'S CORRECT. AM I, AM I UNDERSTANDING IT CORRECTLY? CORRECT. OKAY. AND THAT IS TYPICAL, UH, IN A DEED RESTRICTION SCENARIO WHERE THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY BASIS REALLY TO GO BACK IS TO SAY THAT THE UNDERLYING CONDITIONS HAVE CHANGED. AND WE BELIEVE THAT OVER THE, THIS PERIOD OF TIME, AND WHILE 20 YEARS DOESN'T SEEM ALL THAT LONG, IT CERTAINLY HAS IN OAKS, IT HAS CHANGED A LOT. YEAH. AND I, I THINK THAT, I THINK IT JUST MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD ARGUMENT. BUT ANYHOW, YOU GUYS HAVE QUESTIONS? UH, NOT A QUESTION. MORE SO A COMMENT I GUESS. UM, THIS IS GOING TO BE KIND OF LIKE A DRIVE-THRU CAR WASH, LIKE STARBUCKS. AND SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT YOU'RE REALLY TRYING TO RELIEVE THAT DEED RESTRICTION FOR IS TO PROVIDE THAT KIND OF A, UH, AN ENVIRONMENT AS A DRIVE-THROUGH KIND OF, UH, FACILITY. CORRECT. SIMILAR TO THE OTHER TWO USES ON THE, I GUESS THAT'S THE NORTHWEST SIDE OF EGYPT AND BLACKROCK ROAD. YOU HAVE BANKS WITH DRIVE-THROUGH AND YOU HAVE A DUNCAN WITH DRIVE-THRU. SO VERY SIMILAR. UM, AND AS YOU'LL HEAR FROM GABE, I MEAN, THIS IS A FULL SERVICE CAR WASH AND HE'LL DESCRIBE THE WHOLE USE, UM, AND YOU'LL SEE SOME BETTER IMAGES OF, OF WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE THAT. JERRY, YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS GENTLEMAN? UH, NO. NO, I DON'T THINK SO AT THIS TIME. I MEAN, I, I DON'T, UH, YOU KNOW, I'VE STARTED TO THINK ABOUT THINGS LIKE TRAFFIC, BUT I THINK THAT'S DOWN. NO, I WAS GONNA SAY 'CAUSE THE RESTAURANT HAS A DIFFERENT TURN RATE THAN A CAR WASH, BUT THAT'S TOO MUCH DETAIL. I, I HAVE, I HAVE THE SAME ISSUES AS YEAH. ISSUES THAT, THAT LOOKING AT THIS PLAN, I'VE GOT A LOT OF CONCERNS. BUT AS YOU STARTED YOUR, UH, PRESENTATION, YOU KNOW, THE DEED RESTRICTION IS THE FIRST ISSUE THAT YOU NEED TO OVERCOME. CORRECT. AND THEN WE NEED TO GO THROUGH ZONING ISSUES, RIGHT. AND THEN WE NEED TO GET LOOK AT, I PRESUME REAL TE REAL TENTATIVE PLANS, PRELIMINARY AND THEN FINAL. AND WE CAN ADDRESS THE ISSUES THAT I THINK, JERRY, AT LEAST THAT I HAVE, BASED ON WHAT I'VE SEEN HERE, I'M NOT PARTICULARLY THRILLED WITH WHAT I SEE THAT'S DOWN THE ROAD. WHEN MR. LEWIS CAME TO ME AND, AND MR. NATHANSON, THE, THE PROPERTY OWNER, AND WE FIRST HEARD TALKING ABOUT THIS, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A TWO-PRONGED QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S, UM, YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT THE DEED CERTIFICATE BE LIFTED AND, AND THEN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS GOING THROUGH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AND NOW WITH ZONING HEARING BOARD PROCESS IN THERE, THAT'S AN EXPENSE. I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR OF THE TOWNSHIP TO REQUIRE THEM TO GO THROUGH THAT EXPENSE FOR US TO JUST SAY, YEP, NAH, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THE DANGER DISTRICT. ABSOLUTELY. JEFF. ABSOLUTELY. AND SO THAT, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TONIGHT. AND IT'S A QUICK TURNAROUND FROM WHEN THE APPLICATION WAS FILED AND WHY WE DON'T HAVE ANY REVIEWS OF ANYTHING. I, I DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND THEIR MONEY ON THINGS THAT MAY, THAT IF, IF YOU OR THE BOARD DUG YOUR HEELS AND SAID, I'M JUST NOT DOING IT, I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS STRICTLY A DEED ISSUE. AND, AND, AND MY ONLY COMMENTS WERE THE FACT THAT THIS IS THE NUMBER ONE OR THE FIRST STEP AND WE'VE GOT MORE STEPS TO TAKE. YES. AND WE CAN PURSUE THOSE ISSUES AND HAVE DISCUSSIONS AND WE'LL SEE, YOU KNOW, AND WITH ANY RECOMMENDATION YOU, YOU [00:35:01] MAY OR MAY NOT MAKE TONIGHT, YOU CAN CERTAINLY PUT ON THEM, YOU KNOW, CONDITIONS THAT YOU FEEL TO THE BOARD MAY ENACT, LIKE LET'S SAY, UM, AGREE TO REMOVE THE DEED RESTRICTION ONCE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IS CONCLUDED, YOU KNOW, SO THAT THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCESS BEFORE THAT DEED RESTRICTION HAS CHANGED. WE'RE NOT JUST CHANGING IT OR REMOVING IT NOW OR WHATEVER THAT LANGUAGE IS THAT, THAT YOU HAVE THAT LATITUDE TO DO THIS. THIS IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'RE USED TO. OKAY. WHERE IT'S STRICTLY IN A ZONING BOX OR A SUBDIVISION BOX. THIS IS A LITTLE BIT MORE LATITUDE. I MEAN, HOPEFULLY NOT. OKAY. APPRECIATE THAT. AND, AND JEFF AND I, HAVING WORKED ON THIS PROJECT FOR 20 YEARS, THE VERY FIRST QUESTION THAT CAME TO BOTH OF OUR MINDS WAS TRAFFIC. UM, SO WE DID DO AN INITIAL TRAFFIC, UM, I'M SURE YOU DID ANALYSIS OUR GUY WILL TOO. HE'S NOT HERE TONIGHT. HE'S OUR YEAH, WE, WE WERE HAPPY TO, TO GET INTO THAT WITH YOU LATER. SO WE APPRECIATE KIND OF DIVIDE AND CONQUER HERE AND, AND TALKING ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE. AND, UM, SO I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON THIS EVENING FROM OUR SIDE IS GABE SHUKMAN, WHO I'LL HAVE GABE COME UP AND TALK TO YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, I'M JUST TO HEAR ABOUT THIS. I'LL DO MY BEST NOT TO DISAPPOINT. WELL, I DON'T THINK YOU'LL DISAPPOINT ME. I'M JUST, I JUST, I'M JUST ENAMORED WITH THESE CAR WASH THINGS AROUND . HI, I AM GABE SHUKMAN WITH ALL CAR WASH. SO NICE TO MEET YOU. I'M GONNA INVITE UP ALSO, DO YOU WANNA BRING OUT THE BOARDS AND ALL THAT STUFF? IS THAT OKAY IF I JUST, YOU KNOW? OH, SURE. OKAY, TERRIFIC. SURE. UM, WELL, KATE'S DOING THAT. MAYBE I'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND. JUST TELL US WHAT YEAH, I MEAN, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU THE WHOLE HISTORY AND WHO WE ARE AND IF I'M, IF I'M BORING YOU WITH TOO MANY DETAILS, WE'LL TELL YOU. I KNOW YOU , I HAD A ELK CAR WASH WAS, UM, FOUNDED IN 2011 IN MIAMI, FLORIDA. HENCE THE, UH, EL CAR, EL CAR WASH NAME. UH, THE CHAIN GREW FROM ONE LOCATION TO FOUR LOCATIONS BETWEEN 2011 AND 2017. UH, MY PARTNER JEFF CAR, WHO'S FROM NEW ENGLAND ORIGINALLY, UH, BOUGHT THE BUSINESS WITH FOUR LOCATIONS, SOLD ALL HIS WORLDLY BELONGINGS, AND, UH, MOVED FROM NEW, MOVED FROM NEW YORK AT THE TIME TO FLORIDA AND GREW THE BUSINESS. HE, UH, GREW THE BUSINESS, UH, FROM FOUR LOCATIONS TO 17 LOCATIONS IN 2021, 2022. IN 2022, UH, 2021, I WAS APPROACHED BY A PRIVATE EQUITY FIRM BY THE NAME OF WARBURG PINCUS, AND THEY SAID THEY WANTED TO GET INTO THE CAR WASH BUSINESS. IT'S BEEN A, YOU KNOW, WELL SOUGHT OUT BUSINESS IN THE INDUSTRY. UH, WELL BUS, WELL BUS BUSINESS REALLY SOUGHT OUT IN PRIVATE EQUITY. AND I GOT INVOLVED AND WE'VE GROWN THE BUSINESS FROM 17 LOCATIONS TO OVER A HUNDRED LOCATIONS SINCE 2022. UM, YOU KNOW, CAR WASH IS A, IS A, IS A HOT BUSINESS, I GUESS, IN PRIVATE EQUITY. AND WHAT GOT ME REALLY EXCITED TO BECOME A PARTNER IN THIS BUSINESS. I'VE DONE REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT MY ENTIRE CAREER. I'VE WORKED WITH RETAILERS SUCH AS CHICK-FIL-A AND STARBUCKS AND CHIPOTLE, AND HELPED THEM FIND LOCATIONS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. WHAT GOT ME EXCITED ABOUT THIS BUSINESS AND BUSINESS AND GETTING PARTNERED UP WITH ALL CAR WASH WAS REALLY TWO THINGS. UH, REALLY THREE THINGS. AND NUMBER ONE, UM, THE COMPANY'S 30% EMPLOYEE OWNED. SO GIVEN THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, EMPLOYEES THAT OWN THE BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. OUR NORTH STAR IS, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING AT ALL TIMES. YOU KNOW, SECONDARILY IS COMMUNITY ORIENTATION. UM, YOU KNOW, FIRST OUR MANAGERS, OUR HOURLY EMPLOYEES AT THE STORE, OUR STORE MANAGERS ARE MAKING OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS AN HOUR, WHICH FOR A RETAIL BUSINESS, I THINK IS PRETTY GOOD. OUR HOURLY EMPLOYEES ARE MAKING LIVING WAGES, MAKING, YOU KNOW, FULL BENEFITS, MAKING 25, $30 AN HOUR, WHICH I THINK IS PHENOMENAL. AND THEN GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE HIRE OUR STORE MANAGERS WITHIN THE COMMUNITIES, THAT GIVES 'EM THE ABILITY TO GIVE BACK AT ALL TIMES. AND THAT TIES BACK TO THE THIRD THING, WHICH I THINK IS SO CRITICAL AS WELL, IS WE GIVE BACK TO OUR COMMUNITIES. OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS, WE'VE GIVEN A FEW MILLION DOLLARS AWAY TO THE AMERICAN RED CROSS, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, LOCAL, LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS, MARCHING LOCAL YOUTH, YOU KNOW, HIGH SCHOOL MARCHING BANDS, YOUTH SPORTS, YOU NAME IT. I KNOW THERE'S A GREAT SCHOOL DISTRICT HERE, UM, IN UPPER PROVIDENCE. AND WE'D BE INTERESTED IN, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, PARTING UP WITH THEM AS, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT GROUPS WITHIN THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS AS YOU KNOW AS WELL. SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT MAKES US UNIQUE. YOU KNOW, PRIVATE EQUITY LIKES THE REOCCURRING REVENUES THAT OCCUR IN A CAR WASH BUSINESS. 90% OF OUR, UM, CUSTOMERS DAY IN, DAY OUT ARE MEMBERS. SO THEY PAY, UH, $30 A MONTH OR $25 A MONTH DEPENDING ON THE SERVICE, AND THEY CAN COME AS OFTEN AS THEY'D LIKE. SO THAT'S WHAT PRIVATE EQUITY LIKES. BUT WHAT I LIKED WHEN MY PARTNER IN THE BUSINESS, JEFF CARIS, WHO'S A CEO, WHAT WE LOVED ABOUT IT IS THE FACT THAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT BY THE COMMUNITY, DOING RIGHT BY OUR ASSOCIATES EMPLOYEES. WHEN WE DO A SURVEY OF EVERYBODY THAT WORKS AT ALL CAR WASH, WE ASK 'EM ONE QUESTION, WHY DO YOU LOVE BEING HERE? AND THERE'S ONE WORD THEY ALWAYS USE, AND IT'S FAMILY. AND THE FACT THAT WE HAVE 1600 EMPLOYEES WAKE UP EVERY MORNING AND SAY, WE LOVE BEING PART OF THIS FAMILY. THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT WORTHWHILE. AND THAT'S THE REASON I LOVE IT. THERE'S A WHATSAPP [00:40:01] GROUP THAT WE ALL HAVE THAT WE ALL UTILIZE. EVERYBODY SAYS GOOD MORNING TO EACH OTHER. THAT DOESN'T EXIST IN TODAY'S WORLD. THERE'S A LOT OF BIG COMPANIES, A LOT OF RETAILERS, BUT EVERYBODY LITERALLY SENDING, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, SAYING GOOD MORNING TO EACH OTHER, THAT'S DIFFERENT. AND THAT'S UNIQUE. IT'S A UNIQUE COMPANY. UM, SO THERE'S A REASONS WHY PRIVATE EQUITY LIKES THIS BUSINESS, BUT THOSE ARE THE REASONS THAT ARE PERSONAL TO ME. MUST THEY MUST LOVE THIS BUSINESS. YEAH, SO WE ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT. UM, YOU KNOW, JUST, YOU KNOW, OPERATIONALLY WHAT WE WANNA, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE WANNA DO HERE IN THE COMMUNITY IS, UH, MORE THAN JUST OUR TRADITIONAL CAR WASH. TYPICALLY WHEN YOU SEE THE CAR WASHES, YOU HAVE THE STACKING LANES, JUST A FEW THINGS. WE'RE A CASHLESS BUSINESS. 90% OF OUR CUSTOMERS ARE MEMBERS. WHEN YOU PULL IN, THERE'S A LICENSE PLAY READER, THE GATE GOES UP AND YOU, AND YOU GO THROUGH THIS LOCATION WAS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE, UH, TRADITION. DO YOU HAVE THE SITE PLAN BY ANY CHANCE? YEAH, SO THE SITE PLAN THAT WE HAVE IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE ONE YOU SAW UP ON THE SCREEN. WE'VE BEEN TWEAKING IT AND TRYING TO THINK ABOUT TRAFFIC ISSUES AND CONGESTION ISSUES SINCE WE STARTED WORKING ON THE PROJECT. IS IT OKAY IF I APPROACH YOU GUYS SO I CAN POINT SOME STUFF OUT? SURE. OKAY. SPEAK A LITTLE LOUDER SO MIKE, MIKE CAN CATCH YOU. I'M SORRY, I HAVE THESE, UM, I CAN DO THIS I SEND TO YOU TOO. YEAH, THAT'D BE GREAT. IF YOU WANNA HAND THAT OUT. SURE. IS THAT OKAY? IS THAT OKAY IF WE HAND SOME STUFF OUT? SURE, SURE. THANK YOU. SO ONCE KATE HANDS IT OUT, I'LL WALK YOU THROUGH THE SITE PLAN. THERE'S A, THE PLAN YOU SAW ON THE SCREEN HAD ALL THESE VACUUMS UP HERE. WE ELIMINATED, WE ALREADY ELIMINATED THOSE, BUT WE'LL JUMP INTO THIS IN A SECOND. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT, RIGHT? CORRECT. SO HOW THE, HOW THE, HOW THE BUSINESS WORKS AND HOW THIS IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE TRADITIONAL CAR. THE NEWER, TRADITIONAL CAR WASH MODELS, SOMEBODY PULLS OFF OF BLACKROCK ROAD, THEY ENTER INTO THE Q LANES HERE WE HAVE ABOUT THIR A 30 CAR QUEUE LANE. KEVIN'S OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER. HE CAN TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC AND STACKING AND THE FEAR OF CARS OVERFLOWING INTO THE ROAD. WE'LL, I'LL LET HIM, I'LL LET HIM DEAL WITH THAT. BUT 30 CAR STACK IS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF STACKING. THERE'S THREE PAY STATIONS HERE, AND TWO OF THEM ARE FOR MEMBERS. ONE IS EITHER MEMBER OR SOMEBODY THAT WANTS TO PAY FOR ONETIME WASH. AGAIN, 10% OF THE TIME IT'S A ONETIME WASH. AND, AND WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU READ YOUR LICENSE PLATE, THE GATE GOES UP, WE HAVE ONE OR TWO PEOPLE STATIONED OVER HERE. THEY GO THROUGH THIS, THEY GO THROUGH THE, UM, THEY GO THROUGH THE LANES AND THEY ENTER INTO THE TUNNEL ITSELF. WE HAVE YOUR 150 FOOT TUNNEL, WHICH IS OUR LONGEST TUNNEL, PROVIDES THE CLEANEST CAR, THE DRIEST CAR. IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE, THE LONGER THE TUNNEL USUALLY THE BETTER JOB YOU DO. THE KETO CLEAN CAR IS REALLY FRICTION AND THE LOT ROOM TO DRY IT AFTER, AT THE END OF IT. AND THAT'S REALLY THE TWO THINGS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, TO CREATE IT. WE DO OBVIOUSLY USE SOAPS AT ALL OF OUR, IN ALL OF OUR CAR WASHES. IT'S THE SAME TYPE OF SOAPS THAT YOU WOULD FIND AT YOUR HOUSE. THERE'S NO CHEMICALS THAT WOULD BE DANGEROUS, YOU KNOW, IN THE FUTURE OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE. ADDITIONALLY, WE ALSO REUSE THE WATER AS IT'S RECYCLING THROUGH. WE HAVE RECLAIMED TAKES, UH, THAT WE REUTILIZE THE WATER. WE REUSE MORE THAN 50% OF THE WATER AT ANY AT, FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR EVERY WASH. AND THEN BEFORE THE, UM, WATER EVENTUALLY MAKES IT TO THE CITY SYSTEMS. THERE'S A, THERE'S A, THERE'S A SEPARATOR TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KEEP ALL THE GUNK GUCK OUT OF THE, UH, OUT OF THE COMMUNITY SYSTEMS. SO YOU GO, ALL THE WASHING IS ENTIRELY IN THE BUILDING. THERE'S NOTHING EXTERIOR TO THE BUILDING FOR WASHING. SO YOU, YOU GO THROUGH, YOU GO THROUGH THE TUNNELS ABOUT 75 SECONDS TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE TUNNEL. AND ONCE YOU MAKE IT THROUGH THE TUNNEL, YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO EITHER CONTINUE OUT AND, AND, AND VACUUM YOUR, VACUUM THE CAR, OR YOU CAN JUST EXIT BACK OUT INTO BLACKROCK ROAD. NOW, WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT, AND THEN TYPICALLY, UM, ONLY 10% OF THE PEOPLE VACUUM THEIR OWN CARS. USUALLY YOU WOULD JUST, YOU KNOW, 10% OF THE TIME YOU WOULD VACUUM YOUR OWN CAR. WHAT'S VERY UNIQUE ABOUT THIS LOCATION IS THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO DO A FULL SURF HERE. WHAT FULL SERVICE IS, IS YOU HAVE THESE THREE DIFFERENT, UH, INGRESS AREAS. YOU CAN TELL RIGHT HERE. SO YOU ACTUALLY GET ON A BELT AND THERE'S TWO PEOPLE THAT ARE ACTUALLY CLEANING YOUR CAR OUT FOR, IT'S LIKE A, IT'S LIKE AN INTERNAL DETAILING CENTER IS WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY, IS WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY DOING HERE. AND WE CAN ACTUALLY DETAIL YOUR CAR. SO IF YOU WANT JUST TO HAVE, UH, A TYPICAL CAR WASH MEMBERSHIP THAT'S 25 TO $35 A MONTH, UNLIMITED, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON THE GRAPH UNIT, THE DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENT SERVICES IF YOU ACTUALLY WANNA HAVE YOUR CAR DETAILED. ALSO, WE HAD, YOU KNOW, THESE FULL SERVE CENTERS. IT'S ALSO AN UNLIMITED, IT'S ALSO MEMBERSHIP. IT'S ALSO UNLIMITED. WE CAN DO THAT FOR 45 TO $50 A MONTH. SO FOR THE RESIDENTS IN THE COMMUNITY, FOR $50 A MONTH, THEY CAN GET THEIR CAR WASHED AS MANY TIMES AS THEY LIKE, PLUS GET THEIR CAR DETAILED AS WELL. SO IT'S A REALLY GOOD VALUE. DO THEY STAY IN THE CAR? THEY UH, THEY EXIT. THEY CAN EITHER EXIT OR STAY IN THE CAR. THEY HAVE EITHER OPTION. USUALLY PEOPLE EXIT OUT OF THE CAR. JUST CURIOUS. YEP. SOME PEOPLE STAY, SOME PEOPLE, SOME PEOPLE EXIT OUT, SOME PEOPLE DETAILED IS THE CAR ON A A TRACK? EXACTLY. IT'S ON A TRACK. AND SO THESE TWO GUYS THAT ARE THERE, THEY FOLLOW THE CAR. YEP, EXACTLY. AND THEN WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO IT? I MEAN, OTHER THAN WASHING IT, WHAT ELSE DO THEY DO? VACUUMING THE INSIDE VACUUM. YEAH. TAKING [00:45:01] OUT, YOU KNOW, TAKING OUT ANY TRASH, YOU KNOW, DETAILING, YOU KNOW, THE SMALL, SMALL, DIFFICULT TO GET TO AREAS. CLEAN, CLEAN THE WINDOWS. EXACTLY. YOU GOT IT. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, EVERYTHING. YEP. AND THEN, AND THEN WHAT DO THEY DO? CIRCLE BACK AROUND IN YOUR, THEN GO ABOUT ANOTHER CAR. EXACTLY. EXACTLY. HOW MANY CARS CAN YOU FIT THROUGH THAT THING? WE CAN PROCESS THROUGH, WE CAN PROCESS THROUGH THIS AS, AS MANY CARS AS WE PROCESS A DAY THROUGH THE TUNNEL, AS IS TYPICALLY IS TYPICALLY HOW IT WORKS. THE TUNNEL WILL PROCESS MORE CARS THAN THIS, BUT WE COULD, WE COULD PROCESS JUST AS MANY CARS. THERE'S THREE LANES VERSUS ONE. EXACTLY. SO YOU HAVE AS MANY AS SIX PEOPLE THERE AT ALL. BACK SIX TO NINE CARS AT ANY, AT AT, AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT. HOW MANY EMPLOYEES AT ANY, FROM AN, FROM AN EMPLOYEE? FROM AN EMPLOYEE COMP PERSPECTIVE, IF WE'RE SATURDAY AFTERNOON IN THE WINTER, WE COULD HAVE AS UP TO 15 TO 20 EMPLOYEES ON SITE. YEAH. A LOT OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS MANAGING THE SITE. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT HAVING TO OPERATE THE CAR WASH TOO. RIGHT? RIGHT. MAKE SURE TRAFFIC IS SLOWING AND EVERYONE'S, YOU KNOW, DOING WHAT THEY NEED TO BE DOING. CLEANING UP THE SITE, EVEN CLEAN KEEPING. SO IF I WANTED VACUUM, I DON'T WANT TO DO IT, BUT IF I WANT IT VACUUMED, THEN I GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS. RIGHT. WELL THEN, THEN THAT ONE YOU CAN EITHER, YEAH. IF YOU WANT IT TO SELF VACUUM, YOU CAN JUST, YOU KNOW, MAKE A RIGHT. BUT IF I DON'T WANT A VACUUM, I HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS. YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE ANY SERVICE. YOU CAN EITHER BYPASS, I'M JUST COMPLETELY, YOU CAN JUST DRIVE THROUGH AND EXIT OR YOU COULD GO THROUGH, I UNDERSTAND, UH, THE FULL SERVICE AND EXIT AND THEN I GET THE BACK. YEAH. GOOD. RIGHT. SO EITHER WAY. YEAH. IS THAT A ONETIME BUY TOO? IF I WANT, WHAT'S THAT? IS, IS THAT AVAILABLE? IS A ONETIME BUY YEAH. EVERYTHING'S AVAILABLE. IS A ONE TIME BE A MEMBER OR ANYTHING. EXACTLY. ONE TIME BUY VACUUM WINDOWS CLEANED. EXACTLY. THE BACK ARE COMPLIMENTARY. YEAH. YEAH. BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT IF I DON'T WANT DO IT. YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S A, IT CAN, EVERYTHING CAN BE A ONE TIME BUY. OBVIOUSLY, WE TRY TO, YOU KNOW, MAKES SENSE. THE MEMBERSHIP MODEL IS REALLY A FORM OF DISCOUNT. AND WHAT, WHAT TYPICALLY WHAT WHAT WE END UP FINDING IS PEOPLE THAT LIKE TO WASH THEIR CARS, LIKE TO WASH THEIR CARS MORE THAN ONCE A WEEK. SO WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS BY OFFERING THEM, ONE TIME WASH USED TO BE BETWEEN SEVEN TO $10 A WASH. THAT WAS KIND OF LIKE THE HISTORICAL NUMBER WE'RE IN CHICAGO. CHICAGO IS A $5 MARKET, BUT PHILADELPHIA WAS LIKE A SEVEN TO $10 MARKET. AND WHAT, AND WHAT TRANSCENDED OVER TIME WAS, IS THAT BY OFFERING PEOPLE MONTHLY MEMBERSHIPS AT $25 A MONTH, IF YOU'RE WASHING YOUR CAR MORE THAN ONCE A WEEK, IT'S A DISCOUNT TO, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE THE MEMBERSHIP. SO IT'S, IT'S GOOD TO HAVE THE RECURRING REVENUE AND THE, AND THE CUSTOMER IS GETTING A DISCOUNT AS WELL. THAT'S HOW THE WHOLE, THAT'S HOW THE, HOW, THAT'S HOW THE INDUSTRY TR UH, I GET IT. YEAH, I GET IT. A LITTLE BIT OF CAR WASH HISTORY. YEAH. YEAH. I GET THE BENEFIT OF IT. OKAY. THERE, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE COLOR PICTURE HERE. UH, THIS KIND OF SHOWS PARKING UP HERE TO THE NORTH END. YEP. OKAY. WHEREAS THIS SKETCH DOESN'T SHOW ANY. CAN YOU YEAH, I, I'D LOVE TO. SO THIS IS ON, IS THAT THE PLAN FOR THIS MORNING? YEAH, NO, NO. OKAY. SO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE IS THE EXISTING CONDITIONS BEHIND, YOU'RE SEEING THE EXISTING CONDITIONS BEHIND IT. SO, UM, KEVIN, I THINK IT'S THE SKETCH RIGHT BEHIND YOU. SO LIKE KATE, THE, UH, ORIGINAL, THERE IS NO PARKING PROPOSED THERE, BUT WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS WHERE THE NEW ACCESS DRIVE IS. IT'S WHERE THE OLD PARKING WAS. SO MY POINT IS THERE, THERE ARE, THERE'LL BE NO, NO PARKING THERE PARKING OF ALL THAT ACCESS. CORRECT. SO THERE IS NOW, BUT THAT'LL RIGHT. THAT'S THE RESTROOM PARKING AND THE OTHER, OTHER PICTURES THAT I'VE SEEN AND WHAT I'VE ALREADY REVIEWED, FACEBOOK, WHAT SENT TO US PREVIOUSLY SHOWED, UH, VACUUMING STATIONS. YEAH. AND THERE ON THAT NORTHERN AREA AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE THERE ANYMORE. NO. AND THE OTHER, THE OTHER I'D LIKE TO, I'LL SPEAK TO THAT. YEAH. WE'RE, WE ARE WORKING THROUGH IN THE PLANT. THIS IS DOWN THE ROAD. YEAH. NO, BUT I'M NOT, YEAH, I JUST NO, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. SO I UNDERSTAND. YEAH, NO, SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS, I WANT, I WANNA TALK ABOUT THAT. THE TWO, THE THE TWO THAT I LOVE HERE. YEAH. SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS, SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE PLANT ON YOUR SCREEN, UH, YOU KNOW, UP, ASSUME YOU HAVE THE, I WAS LOOKING AT THAT PLAN TODAY AND STARING AT THAT PLANT, I GO, THAT'S A LOT OF STUFF GOING ON. THAT'S WHAT I YEAH. AND I WAS LOOKING AT THAT PLANT TODAY. I GO, THIS DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE OPERATE OVER A HUNDRED CAR WASHES. YEAH. SO THIS IS DOWN THE ROAD. YEAH. SO I'M JUST MAKING A COMMENT, JUST THAT WHAT YOU SHOWED US TWO DIFFERENT, THEY DEPICT TWO DIFFERENT IMAGES. YEAH. YOU DON'T NEED AT THAT NORTHERN PART OF YEAH, WE, I THOUGHT IT WAS DANGEROUS. I AGREE WITH YOU. THAT WAS THAT'S FINE. I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND WHICH, WHICH ONE IS THE CORRECT VISUAL. YEAH, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE CORRECT. WE WERE, WE, I WAS STARING AT THAT PLAN THIS MORNING AND I GO, THIS DOESN'T WORK. WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT THAT PLAN, AND, AND I AGREE WITH YOU A HUNDRED PERCENT, THANK YOU. THE, THE VACUUM'S ON THE SIDE, IF THE BOARD PLAN. YEAH, I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S, YOU COME OUT AND GO TO THE VACUUM BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE DUNKING DONUTS, YOU HAVE EVERYTHING ELSE. WHAT I WAS SCARED OF IS PEOPLE, PEOPLE ARE EXITING OUT. YOU GOT CARS GOING. THAT'S, THAT'S MY CONCERN PREVIOUSLY IS YEAH, I AGREE. IT'S NOT JUST PARKING AS IT EXISTS TODAY. IT'S PEOPLE VACUUMING IN VACUUM OUT, IN AND OUT, IN AND OUT. I TOTALLY AGREE. FAR MORE TRAFFIC AT THAT AREA THAN [00:50:02] WILL ALLOW THIS EGRESS INGRESS INTO THE BANK AND THE DUMP. WE'RE ON THE WE AGREE . OKAY. WE AGREE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YEAH, WE AGREE. WE TOTALLY AGREE. I THINK ALL OF US CAN AGREE THAT THAT'S A BETTER YEAH, AGREE. YEAH. WE WE'RE IN TOTAL AGREEMENT ON THAT. SO WE, UM, FLOW. YEAH. I THINK IT'S A BETTER FLOW AND I THINK IT CREATES BETTER SEPARATION FROM THE OTHER TWO USES. ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. THAT WAS OUR, THIS IS DOWN THE ROAD. I UNDERSTAND, BUT I JUST WANTED TO, BECAUSE WHAT YOU PRESENTED HERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT IMAGES. ABSOLUTELY. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I KNOW WHERE YOU WERE COMING FROM. YEAH, I TOOK, I TOOK FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT LAST MINUTE CHANGE, SO I APOLOGIZE. IT WAS A GOOD CHANGE, ELISE. AT LEAST WE MADE, UH, WE MADE PROGRESS A HUNDRED PERCENT. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE TOGETHER. THAT'S ALL. ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU. SO THAT'S THE, UM, I GOT A FEW QUESTIONS. YEAH, PLEASE. UM, YOU NEVER REALLY EXPLAINED L OH, THE NAME L SURE. LIKE WHAT'S IT MEAN? WHERE DOES IT COME FROM? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? L IS THE, SO THE, UM, IT WAS THE, THE I KNOW WHAT L IS. YEAH. SO YEAH. SO, SO, SO LITERALLY, SO THE, SO, BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN? YEAH. SO ALL IT WAS IS THE, THE FAMILY THAT STARTED EL CAR WASH WAS CUBAN IMMIGRANTS AND THE CAR WASH AND, AND THEY JUST, THAT THAT WAS IT. THERE WAS NO, NO MAGIC TO IT. YOU JUST TOOK THE IN TO MAKE A LITTLE YEAH, EXACTLY. AND THEY, AND THEY, AND WE KEPT IT. WE WANTED TO HONOR WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY'VE DONE. I MEAN, ALL THE OTHER CAR WASHES IN THE AREA. I'M SURE YOU KNOW THIS, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT SPLASH, YOU GOT ROCKET. YEAH. YOU GOT, YOU KNOW, IT JUST SOUNDS MORE YEAH. SPOTLESS. I MEAN, HELL WAS LIKE FILM, YOU KNOW, IT WAS, SO WHEN, WHEN WE GOT INVOLVED IN THE COMPANY IN 2000, YOU KNOW, 2022, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE BIG BANKERS, YOU KNOW, THEY GO, OH, YOU GOTTA CHANGE THE NAME. I GO, WHY DO YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE NAME? YOU KNOW, OUR CAR WASH REPRESENTS FUN. IT REPRESENTS A BRAND WE LOVE. YEAH. SO THAT'S, I'M, I'M GONNA AGREE. YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S THE HISTORY OF IT. I JUST WONDERING WHAT, WHAT WAS THE LINEAGE BEHIND IT? BUT IT'S JUST THAT WHERE IT STARTED, THE, THAT'S IT'S WHO WE ARE. OKAY. YEAH. AND THEN, AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THE BUILDING THAT THEY'RE NOW, YOU'RE GONNA GET RID OF ALTOGETHER. CORRECT. THAT BUILDING GOES AWAY. CORRECT. WE'VE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE DONE SOME ADAPTIVE, PROBABLY LIKE THE BAR, YOU WOULDN'T KEEP THE BAR THERE. OH, MAYBE. NO, I'M KIDDING. THROUGH GRAB THROUGH . IF I CAN FIGURE I'M DRIVING AND DRINK IT. NO, NO, NO, NO. I KNOW, I KNOW. YOU KNOW. WE'LL, WE'LL DO YOU IN A LITTLE SIT DOWN. UM, WE'VE DONE SOME ADAPTIVE REUSE. I JUST, I DON'T THINK WE COULD, WE COULD DO IT ON THIS ONE. UNFORTUNATELY, WE LIKE TO DO AN ADAPTIVE REASON WHEN WE CAN, BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO IT ON THIS ONE, UNFORTUNATELY. I UNDERSTAND. OKAY. SO MY BIGGEST QUESTION OF, YEAH. THE QUESTIONS IS WHAT IS MAKING THIS TOWNSHIP UPPER PROVIDENCE, SO ATTRACTIVE TO CAR WASH PEOPLE. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT, YOU KNOW, DRAWS US TO A COMMUNITY WE LOVE BEING BY GROSS LOVE, YOU KNOW, GROCERY ANCHOR, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY JUST LOVE GREAT COMMUNITIES. YOU KNOW, GREAT COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE GROWTH, THAT HAVE DEVELOPMENT. THAT'S WHAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT IT, YOU LOOK AT PER CAPITA AND YOU SAY, HEY, THIS, THIS IS WHAT, THIS AVERAGE INCOME OF THIS, THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO, THEY GOT 5.2 KIDS AND THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO WATCH . HOW DO YOU YEAH. FILL UP WITH ALL THAT? SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PHILADELPHIA MARKET GENERALLY, PHILADELPHIA MARKET GENERALLY HAS BEEN AN UNDERSERVED CAR WASH, HAS, HAS BEEN AN UNDERSERVED CAR WASH MARKET. SO WHAT YOU LOOK AT IT A PER CAPITA PERSPECTIVE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT TEXAS, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, TEXAS HAS ONE CAR WASH FOR EVERY NEW CAR WASH ONE FOR EVERY 15,000 PEOPLE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT PHILADELPHIA, IT'S WAY HIGH, IT'S WAY HIGHER THAN THAT. SO THE PHILADELPHIA MARKET FOR YEARS HAS HAD A LOT OF THE, YOUR, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR OLD SCHOOL OLD STYLE CAR WASHES THAT WERE LIKE 80 FOOT TUNNELS AND NO NEW EQUIPMENT IN PHILADELPHIA, JUST NEVER HAD NEW, YOU KNOW, NEW CAR WASHES. SO AS WE WERE THINKING ABOUT OUR EXPANSION NATIONALLY, WE JUST BOUGHT A SIX UNIT CHAIN IN THE BALTIMORE MARKET CALLED CANTON CAR WASH CANTON, ALL THE CANTON CAR WASHES DOES THIS KIND OF FULL SERVE STUFF, NOT EXPRESS ONLY. AND PHILADELPHIA HAS JUST BEEN, HAS BEEN AN UNDERSERVED MARKET. SO AS WE'RE THINKING ABOUT OUR EXPANSION, WE'RE, WE HAVE 80 LOCATIONS IN FLORIDA AND WE'RE THINKING ABOUT OUR LONG-TERM GROWTH. YOU KNOW, BEING UP AND DOWN THE I 95 CORRIDOR HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN EXCITING FOR US AND DOING THE PHILADELPHIA MARKET. UM, AND IT PLAYS WELL INTO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE, ONE OF OUR EXISTING, ONE OF OUR ACQUISITIONS. SO PHILADELPHIA'S AN UNDERSERVED MARKET. HISTORICALLY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, FROM A DEMOGRAPHIC PERSPECTIVE, THERE'S GREAT INCOMES, YOUNG FAMILIES. IT JUST, IT CHECKS ALL THE BOXES OF WHAT, OF WHAT MAKES A SUCCESS, WHAT CREATE WHAT HOPEFULLY IS A SUCCESSFUL CAR WASH. UM, AND AS WE LOOK AT THE PHILADELPHIA MARKET IN AGGREGATE, WE GENERALLY VIEW THAT THE PHIL, GIVEN THE FACT THAT OUR MEMBERSHIP WORKS AT NAL CAR WASH. SO IF YOU JOIN ELK CAR WASH IN THIS COMMUNITY, IT WOULD WORK. IF YOU WENT DOWN TO PALM BEACH OR TO MIAMI OR TO DETROIT WHERE I'M FROM, WHEREVER IT MAY BE, IT WOULD, IT WOULD, IT WOULD, IT WOULD WORK OVER THERE. SO WE THINK IT'S AN UNDERSERVED MARKET. WE THINK THERE'S SOME GREAT COMMUNITIES WHERE WE CAN OPEN UP, WHERE WE CAN OPEN UP LOCATIONS AND DO, AND DO VERY WELL. AND THAT'S, AND THAT'S THE THING. ARE YOU LOOKING TO EXPAND OTHER AREAS, PHIL? YEAH, SO WE HAVE A PIPELINE RIGHT NOW IN THE PHILADELPHIA MARKET OF 15 TO 20 LOCATIONS IN VARIOUS STAGES OF PERMITS AND ENTITLEMENTS. AND WE'RE ALSO WORKING ON SOME STUFF IN SOUTHERN JERSEY, LIKE CHERRY HILL AREA, AND THEY'RE WORKING ON SOME PROJECTS [00:55:01] IN NORTH JERSEY AS WELL. IN ALL THE DEMOGRAPHICS YOU GUYS WORK ON, I'M SURE YOU DO, YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT SIT AROUND AND DO ALL THIS. WHEN IS THE SATURATION POINT? WHAT IS THE SATURATION POINT? RIGHT. SO WE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS SITE, WE WERE SAYING, OUR QUESTION WAS, IS LIKE, WE DON'T WANNA BUILD ON TOP OF SOMEBODY ELSE ACROSS THE STREET. IF THERE'S LIKE THREE CAR WASHES AT AN INTERSECTION OR TWO CAR WASHES, WE'RE JUST NOW LOOKING TO GO ON TOP OF EACH OTHER, RIGHT? 'CAUSE THERE'S ONLY SO MANY CAR WASHES YOU CAN HAVE. SO WE'RE TYPICALLY DRAWING A TWO OR THREE MILE RADIUS AROUND A SPECIFIC LOCATION. SAY, CAN WE DO ENOUGH BUSINESS WITHIN THIS TWO OR THREE MILE LOCATION? SO WHEN WE LOOKED AT THIS MARKET, THERE'S A CAR WASH FOUR OR FIVE MILES TO THE NORTH, TO ONE TO THE EAST, ONE TO THE WEST, AND WE'RE BUILDING A LOCATION. WE'RE LOOKING TO BUILD ONE POTENTIALLY IN THE KING OF PRUSSIA AREA AS WELL. SO WE FELT THAT WAS GOOD SYNERGY WITH KING OF PRUSSIA. AND WE FELT THE OTHER THREE, THE OTHER THREE COMPETITIVE CAR WASHES ARE FAR ENOUGH AWAY THAT WE THOUGHT WE COULD, YOU KNOW, COULD DO WELL HERE AND THEY COULD DO WELL AND EVERYBODY COULD, YOU KNOW, HAVE THEIR BUSINESS AND THEIR MEMBERS AND BE SUCCESSFUL. SO COMPETITION IS SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY, REALLY CRITICAL TO US. AND IF WE THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT OF COMPETITION, WE'RE NOT GONNA WANNA OPEN UP AND TAKE THAT RISK OUTSIDE OF LAND COST AND ALL THAT. THIS TOTAL INVESTMENT IS GONNA BE SEVEN, $8 MILLION. AND THE LAST THING WE WANNA DO IS MAKE AN $8 MILLION INVESTMENT AND, AND LOSE AND FAIL. NOW YOU YOU LOOK TO BUY THIS PROPERTY OR JUST LEASING THIS ONE, WE'RE LEA WE'D BE LEASING THE PROPERTY. YOU'D BE LEASING THE PROPERTY, CORRECT. SO IT'D BE OUTSIDE OF THE LEASE VALUE. WE'D HAVE AN $8 MILLION INVESTMENT ABOVE THE GROUND. I HAVE NOTHING ELSE, CHAIR. NO, I'M GOOD. JEFF, WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO HERE? MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON THE DEED RESTRICTION. WHETHER YOU FEEL THAT WE FEEL THAT THE, IT, IT, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN LIFT THAT DEED RESTRICTION. YOU CAN LIFT THIS USED OFF OF THE DEED RESTRICTION. WE RECOMMEND THAT THE SUPERVISORS LIFT THIS DEED RESTRICTION, LIFT THIS, ALLOW THIS USE AT THIS LOCATION, AT THIS LOCATION. I DON'T THINK WE WANT CHANGE THE WHOLE DEED RESTRICTION. NOT THE WHOLE DEED. OKAY. WE'RE NOT QUITE PREPARED. LOCATION THIS PLACE, THIS, THIS BUSINESS? YES. OKAY. SO WE WANNA MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THAT EFFECT SINCE WE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE FIVE OF US AND WE'RE DONE TO JUST THE THREE OF THEM. I'M THE CHAIR, SO I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS. SO WE GOT TWO GUYS. ONE MAKES IT ONE SECOND. WELL, I I'LL MAKE, I'LL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE, UH, GO BEFORE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO RECOMMEND THAT FOR THIS SPECIFIC LOCATION, THEY, UH, APPROVE THE DEED RESTRICTION, PRESUMING THEY GET THE ZONING, UH, RELIEF. AND ALSO, UH, FINAL, UH, DEVELOPMENT PLANS APPROVED. SO WE GOT A MOTION THAT, UH, WE LIFT THE, WE RECOMMEND TO THE SUPERVISOR, THEY LIFT THE DEED RESTRICTION FOR THIS BUSINESS AT THIS LOCATION. UM, AND, UH, I'LL TAKE A SECOND. ASSUMING, ASSUMING THAT THEY GET ZONING WELL SURE. ASSUMING THAT ALL THE OTHER STUFF HAS TO HAPPEN AND THIS FINAL, THIS IS JUST DEVELOPMENT, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO DO, RIGHT? UM, I, I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION. OKAY. SO WE GOT A FIRST AND A SECOND. UM, YOU KNOW, I, I'M JUST INTRIGUED BY ALL THESE, CARL. I JUST, I'M INTRIGUED BY IT. I IT'S JUST, IT'S UNBELIEVABLE. BUT I AGREE. SO ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU YOU GUYS. GOOD LUCK. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO SEE YOU AGAIN SOON. WE'LL SEE YOU GUYS. THANK YOU. YES. WE'LL BE LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. THANK YOU. YOU'LL BE ON THE 20TH. YEAH, WE WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT. 'CAUSE YOU'RE NOT HERE, RIGHT? I'M NOT HERE, BUT ZACH IS SO ZACH CAN EXPLAIN THAT. YES. OKAY. THAT DAY. LET'S KEEP MOVING ALONG HERE SINCE IT'S, THAT'S, AND NOW WE'VE GOT OUR MR. ALLEN IS HERE. YES. LONG TIME. NO, SEE, I'VE LEFT MY BAND OF MERRY MEN HOME. I KNEW YOU BOUGHT A DIFFERENT BAND OF MERRY MEN. IT'S FOR, BECAUSE IT'S JULY. WE GAVE HIM A JULY 4TH HOLIDAY. I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS NOW, ED. AND I SAID THAT'S PROBABLY MY BEST LINE EVER. WAS EDEN. HIS BAND OF MERRY MEN. I AGREE WITH YOU. AND WE'VE REMEMBERED IT. I I CAN TELL. THANK YOU FOR THAT. I CANNOT TELL A LIE. I DID THAT DEED RESTRICTION FOR BOMB LAND 20 YEARS AGO. WE WANNA CALL YOU OUT . ANYHOW, WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR WHAT QUESTION BEFORE YOU LEAVE, WHAT, WHAT WHEN'S THE UNO GOING DOWN? END OF THEIR LEASE RUNS THROUGH THE END OF THE SUMMER. UM, SO AUGUST OR SEPTEMBER, THE END OF THE LEASE. THE LEASE EXPIRES THE END OF AUGUST. OKAY. CORRECT. YOU SAID THAT THE LEAD IS, UH, LEASE IS OVER AT THE END OF AUGUST, SO, OKAY. ALRIGHT. HOW, OKAY. AND I'M SORRY I DIDN'T WANTED TO ASK THAT QUESTION. I FORGOT. NO PROBLEM. WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR TONIGHT IS SULLIVAN AND LINDA AUGUSTINE OWN TWO PIECES OF GROUND IN THE TOWNSHIP. ONE IS 21 ACRES AND THAT THEY'RE SELLING TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BUILDING THE MULTIFAMILY, WHICH IS HREG AND AUDUBON LAND. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT. BUT ON THAT 21 ACRE PIECE OF GROUND, THERE'S A POND. AND BESIDE THEIR 21 ACRE PIECE OF GROUND, THEY HAVE A 2.7 ACRE PIECE OF GROUND WHERE THEY LIVE [01:00:01] AND THEY DON'T WANT TO SELL THEIR POND. SO WE'RE HERE TONIGHT TO TAKE THE POND OFF OF THE 21 ACRE PIECE AND ATTACH IT TO THEIR HOUSE SO THEY CAN HAVE THEIR POND. THERE'S NO, UH, LAND DEVELOPMENT INVOLVED. THERE'S NO EARTH MOVEMENT INVOLVED. THERE'S NO ENTER. MR. WHERE'S THE PROPERTY? YEAH. WHERE IS THEIR HOUSE? IS IT HERE? AND I'LL SHOW, THIS IS THE POND, RIGHT? RIGHT. THIS IS THE SULLIVAN'S HOUSE. YOU GOT IT? YEP. THIS IS THE, THIS PART. WELL, ALL OF THESE PARCELS IN HERE ARE THE HREG, UM, COLLEGEVILLE MULTIFAMILY THAT WE'RE RIGHT. STILL WORKING THROUGH. CORRECT. AND WE'RE WE'LL COMPLY WITH THE ENGINEER'S LETTER. RIGHT. AND I THINK JEFF CAN TELL YOU THAT. JEN SAID THERE'S NO, NO MAJOR ISSUES HERE. ALL YOU WANNA DO IS JUST INCLUDE ON THAT PROPERTY, THAT POND. EXACTLY. WANNA TAKE THE POND OFF OF THE PROPERTY WE'RE BUYING AND ATTACH IT TO THEIR HOUSE. WHAT'S THE ISSUES WITH THAT, JEFF? NOTHING. AND JEN'S LETTER HAS SOME, SOME MINOR TECHNICAL ISSUES TO IT. IT, IT REALLY IS. IT'S A MINOR SUBDIVISION. IT'S LIKE THE ONE WE DID AT HALF A ROAD WHERE WE SORT OF RECON YOU'RE RE REDRAWING SOME LOT LINES IS ALL YOU'RE DOING IN THIS. YEAH. HOW, HOW, HOW MUCH OF THAT 21 ACRES IS THE POND THAT YOU WANT TO SEPARATE? YEAH. HOW, WHAT IS THAT ONE ACRE, FIVE ACRES. ONE FOUR MORE THAN ONE AC. THE POND IS 1.4 ACRES. GOT IT. IS IS THE POND AND, AND SOME ADJACENT AREA. YEP. SO THE, THE ONE POINT THIS IS, THIS JUST SHOWS CURRENT. OKAY. IT, IT ESSENTIALLY DRAWS A BOX AROUND IT. I MEAN THAT, THAT BLUE BOX RIGHT THERE WHERE THERE YOU GO. RIGHT THERE. THE BLUE BOX. OH, I GOT IT. OH, OKAY. I GOT IT. OKAY. YEAH, YOU CAN SORT OF, I KNOW IT'S HARD TO SEE, YOU CAN SORT OF SEE THE, THE OUTLINE OF, OF THE POND THERE, UM, WHERE IT SAYS LOT LINE TO BE EXTINGUISHED. SO ESSENTIALLY THEY'RE JUST INCREASING THEIR LOT SIZE. SO, SO GO BACK TO THE NEXT SLIDE. YEAH. FOR THE PREVIOUS ONE, ONE IS THE ONE WITH THE POP. YEAH. SO BASICALLY THEY'RE BOXING THAT OUT. YEAH. YEP. THEY'RE GONNA BOX IF THEY'RE GONNA SQUARE IT OFF. YEP. THEY WANT 90 DEGREE ANGLES. YEP. OKAY. AGAIN, WHAT, WHAT DO WE DO HERE? IT, IT'S A MINOR SUBDIVISION AND THEY'RE LOOKING TO CLOSE THIS PORTION OF IT OUT. WE WERE KIND OF RUNNING THEM TOGETHER WITH THE, THE COLLEGEVILLE MULTIFAMILY LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION IN THIS. BUT THEY WANT TO CLOSE THIS OUT SO THEY CAN JUST BE DONE WITH, FINISH THIS OFF, BE DONE WITH IT. BE DONE WITH IT. SO, SO OUR JOB IS JUST TO RECOMME, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY TO BOX OFF THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY TO APPROVE OR DIS TO NOT APPROVE THE, THE MINOR SUBDIVISION AND ATTACH IT TO THE HOME. YEAH. DEED IT WOULD, BY APPROVING THE SUBDIVISION, YOU'RE REALLY CONSOLIDATING THIS NEW LOT AND THE OLD LOT RIGHT AT YEP. YEAH. I MEAN THAT, IT'S NOT A CONSOLIDATION, BUT THAT'S GENERALLY WHAT THE PLAN IS DOING. RIGHT. GOT IT. OKAY. WELL, I MEAN, THAT SEEMS PRETTY CUT AND DRY. I DON'T THEN AND THERE'S NO ISSUES. NO ISSUES. OKAY. WELL THEN I, SOMEBODY WANNA MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR THAT? YEAH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT, UH, WE RECOMMEND, UH, THE, THE BOARD APPROVE THE MINOR SUBDIVISION REQUEST THAT'S BEFORE US TO CONSOLIDATE THESE LOTS. OKAY. SO WE HAVE A, A MOTION, UH, BY JERRY TO, UH, TO APPROVE OR TO RECOMMEND, UH, APPROVAL TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS THAT THEY, UH, APPROVE THIS MINOR SUBDIVISION BOX OUT THIS LITTLE POND AND IT BECOMES PART OF THE DEED OF THE HOUSE. UM, AND DO I HAVE A SECOND, SECOND OF THAT? SO WE HAVE A SECOND. AND ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AND, UH, I DIDN'T ASK THAT FOR THE OTHER ONE, BUT I'LL ASK FOR THIS ONE. LIKE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT ON ANY OF THIS ONE. OKAY. NOT HEARING ANY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU GUYS DIDN'T NEED TO BAND THE MURRAY MAN. YEAH, YOU, YOU COULD HAVE, YOU SHOULD HAVE WENT FIRST. . I, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. . SO WE HAVE SOME OTHER PEOPLE HERE. IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE ON THE AGENDA? OBJECTION. YES. THE [DISCUSSION: ZONING ORIDNANCE UPDATES] ONE LAST THING IS, IS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS INTERNALLY, UM, RIDGE PIKE REZONING, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WHERE WE WANTED TO GO WITH IT. BUT IN THE INTERIM, FOX LANE HAS APPROACHED THE TOWNSHIP AND BROUGHT A PLAN FORWARD. THIS ISN'T A FORMAL APPLICATION AT THIS POINT, BUT THEY WANTED TO MAKE A PRESENTATION TO YOU, UM, ABOUT POTENTIALLY CHANGING THE REZONING FOR THE PARCELS NEXT TO, UM, NEXT TO, UH, LIDELL. AND, UM, THERE WAS ANOTHER PULTE DEVELOPMENT THEY REMEMBER THAT WAS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF IT THERE. UM, PICO RUNS THROUGH THE MIDDLE. I'LL LET THEM RUN THROUGH THE MORE SPECIFIC, THAT'S THE ARROW WE HAVE OF IT. THEY HAVE A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION I NEED TO PULL UP AND THEY'LL MAKE THEIR PRESENTATION TO YOU. JEFF, THIS IS JUST AN INTRO. THIS IS JUST AN INTRO. IT'S NOT AN APPLICATION YET. AND AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A REQUEST TO CHANGE THE ZONING. SO THERE'S NOTHING, UM, FORMAL AT THIS POINT. I KNOW WE'VE HAD OUR DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHERE WE WANT THE ZONING TO GO. AND THOSE CHANGES ARE SORT OF BEEN PUT ON [01:05:01] HOLD BY THIS AT THIS POINT. 'CAUSE I, YOU KNOW, AS A PROPERTY OWNER, THEY'RE ALLOWED TO COME FORWARD AND, AND PUT TOGETHER THEIR SUGGESTIONS. UM, SO I'M NOT GONNA STEAL THEIR THUNDER ANYMORE. I'LL LET THEM, ONCE I HOLD THIS UP, PLEASE, UH, INTRODUCE YOURSELF. SURE. GREAT. THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING. I'M GREG EDELMAN. I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF FOX LANE. UH, JEFF, APPRECIATE THE INTRODUCTION AND JUST ADD A LITTLE MORE COLOR TO THE BACKGROUND IN ABOUT, UH, MIDDLE OF APRIL, WE SUBMITTED REALLY AN INFORMAL SKETCH PLAN REQUEST AND THAT'S WHEN JEFF SAID, WHY DON'T WE ALL TALK ABOUT THIS ON A STAFF LEVEL FIRST TO FIGURE OUT HOW BEST TO PROCEED AND TO WORK THROUGH WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT DOING, WHAT THE TOWNSHIP WAS DOING IN TERMS OF, UH, UH, ZONING, I GUESS UPDATE AND OR AMENDMENTS TO YOUR, UH, MAIN STREET CORRIDOR THERE. UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL IN PARTICULAR. SO WE FILED THIS APPLICATION PROPOSING A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT WITH SOME RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL ALONG THE MAIN STREET. UH, BUT I'M HERE THIS EVENING WITH JOE MORRISSEY FROM FOX LANE. HE'S THE PRINCIPAL. AND AL AZI IS CONSULTING FOR FOX LANE AS WELL. UM, THEY'VE GOT POWERPOINT PRESENTATIONS TO RUN THROUGH. I THINK WE MAY BE STARTING WITH AL THOUGH FIRST AS OPPOSED TO JOE. SO AL'S GONNA, OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH HIM. HE'S GONNA, IF YOU WANNA GO UP TO THE PODIUM, THAT'S FINE. HE'LL TAKE US THROUGH JUST TO REFRESH EVERYBODY ON WHERE WE WORK, COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING AND THINGS ALONG THE MAIN STREET QUARTER. AND THEN JOE WILL TIE IT INTO WHAT WE THINK THE PROPERTY CAN BECOME OR THE PROPERTIES CAN BECOME. IT'S ABOUT 50 ACRES, HOW IT'S BEST TO ACTIVATE IT, AND THEN HOPEFULLY BE A CATALYST FOR THIS UPDATED OR REFRESHED ZONING ALONG THE COURT. SO AL PLEASE TAKE YOUR ONE. OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU. UM, GOOD MORNING, UH, MR. WRIGHT. UM, GOOD AFTERNOON, UH, MR. FURY AND MR. PETERS, UM, BEFORE I GET GOING, UM, JUST A QUICK DISCLOSURE HERE. SINCE I WAS A TOWNSHIP SUPERVISOR, UM, YOU WERE, YEAH, RIGHT. UM, FROM 2016 TO 20 THROUGH 2021, I'VE BEEN, BEFORE YOU, BEEN BEFORE MANY BOARDS, MULTIPLE TIMES. AT NO TIME HAVE I BEEN COMPENSATED, BUT I AM A PAID CONSULTANT, UH, FOR VARIOUS REASONS. AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY. SO, UM, THE, THE MAIN STREET CORRIDOR, UM, I'VE HAD A LOT OF, UM, HISTORY WITH THAT ON THE BOARD, UH, ON TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS. AND SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY. OVER THE PAST EIGHT OR NINE YEARS, UM, DISCUSSIONS HAVE TAKEN PLACE WITH THIS, UM, CORRIDOR. THERE HAVE BEEN AT LEAST TWO PRESENTA, TWO ATTEMPTS TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY. ALTHOUGH ON A SMALLER SCALE, THERE'S ABOUT 51 ACRES. THERE WAS ATTEMPTS TO DEVELOP ABOUT 22 ACRES. UM, AT NO TIME DID THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, JEFF, WE WE REALLY TOOK NO ACTION. UM, WE JUST, AND, AND WE REALLY NEVER SAID, WE DON'T WANT RESIDENTIAL. WHAT, WHAT, WHAT REALLY TOOK PLACE WAS WE AS A BOARD, AND I AGREED WITH IT, IS WE WANTED A BIGGER PLAN. WE WANTED A BETTER PLAN INSTEAD OF JUST PLOPPING A HUNDRED HOMES IN OR, OR DOING WHATEVER. SO, UH, THE, THE BOARD ON TWO OCCASIONS JUST SIMPLY DEFERRED AND JUST TOOK NO, NO POSITION. BUT IT WAS CLEAR, AND WE, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS AT THE, AT THE MEETINGS, IS WE'RE LOOKING FOR A BETTER PLAN. SO THAT BRINGS US HERE. THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY. SO, AND THE REASON I I CONNECTED WITH FOX LANE HOMES AND JOE MORRISEY WAS BECAUSE, UM, THIS CAR DOOR HAS BEEN, UM, ON MY MIND FOR ABOUT EIGHT YEARS. SO EARLIER THIS YEAR, I REACHED OUT TO THE OWNER. I JUST TRIED TO FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON, AND I CALLED THE OWNER. I TALKED TO THE OWNER REPRESENTATIVE. HE SAID, BY THE WAY, WE HAD JUST MADE IT A, UM, WE, WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH FOX LANE FOR THEM TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY. HE PUT ME IN TOUCH WITH FOX LANE AND I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHAT WAS GOING ON DURING THAT MEETING. UM, I FOUND OUT WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING TO DO. WE HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS AND THAT'S WHEN I AGREED TO, TO CONSULT WITH THEM. AND IN, UM, IN FACT, UM, WHEN I MET WITH FOX LANE, UM, THEY PRESENTED A PLAN THAT WAS MOSTLY APARTMENT DRIVEN, MANY, MANY APARTMENTS. AND TO THEIR CREDIT, THEY TOOK MY ADVICE AND BASICALLY CHANGED IT TO THE PLAN YOU'RE GONNA SEE HERE TONIGHT THAT HAS ZERO APARTMENTS. SO, AND UM, SO THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHERE WE'RE AT TODAY. UM, UNDERSTAND, EVEN THOUGH I AM BEING COMPENSATED FOR MY TIME HERE TONIGHT, I, EVERYTHING I SAY IS MY OWN OPINION. I'M NOT HERE TO, UM, I'M GIVING YOU MY OPINION. EVERYTHING I HAVE TO SAY HERE TONIGHT, I BELIEVE A HUNDRED PERCENT. SO, UM, YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, JEFF. OKAY. SO, UM, SO WE KNOW HOW WE GOT HERE. UM, THE MAIN STREET CORRIDOR [01:10:01] WAS FORMERLY 4 22, AND WE'VE ALL LIVED HERE, RIGHT? EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT THAT USED TO BE 4 22. SO, UM, IT WAS 4 22. UM, BUT THEN IN THE MID EIGHTIES, LATE EIGHTIES, UH, 4 22 WAS MOVED TO THE CURRENT SUPERHIGHWAY THAT IT IS TODAY. UH, THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS AND ZONING ZONING CHA, THE ZONING THAT WAS, UH, UM, IN PLACE FOR THAT CAR DOOR, UM, NEVER FULLY ADAPTED TO THE, THE LOSS OF TRAFFIC, THE LOSS OF THE BUSINESS. UM, SO AS A RESULT, THE CORRIDOR IS EXPERIENCING FRAGMENTATION, DETERIORATION, AND THE INVESTMENT HAS BEEN LIMITED. I MEAN, WE CAN ALL GO UP THERE AND SEE WHAT, WHAT'S NOT TAKING PLACE UP THERE. SO A NUMBER OF REDEVELOPMENT PROP, UH, OPPORTUNITIES HAVE BEEN MISSED BECAUSE THE MARKET HAS SPOKEN. THE, THE REASON THAT'S NOT DEVELOPED IS THE MARKET HAS NO, HAS NO DESIRE TO BE THERE BECAUSE WHAT THE ZONING WE HAVE THERE NOW JUST ISN'T WORKING. SO, UM, NEXT SLIDE, JEFF. SO HOPEFULLY WE'VE BEEN UP THERE. SO THIS IS JUST SOME, THESE ARE RECENT PHOTOS OF THE DEVELOPMENT. THAT HOUSE CAUGHT FIRE ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO, AND STILL TO THIS DAY, IT'S NOT FIXED BECAUSE THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, HE'S GOT HIS BULLDOZER IN THE BACK, HE'S GOT HIS BACKHOE, HE'S GOT STORAGE EQUIPMENT BACK THERE. SO THERE'S NO INCENTIVE TO, UH, TO MAINTAIN THE PROPERTY. NEXT, JEFF, PLEASE. UH, THIS IS, UM, THE HOUSE ON THE RIGHT IS AN ABANDONED PROPERTY. IT'S ON THE NORTH SIDE OF, UH, MAIN STREET, NEAR THE CHURCH, NEAR GREENWOOD AVENUE. UH, THAT'S LITERALLY, THERE'S NO WINDOWS IN THAT BUILDING. UM, AND ON THE LEFT, IT'S FURTHER DOWN BY WILTON, SAME THING, SIMILAR I, SOMEBODY MIGHT BE LIVING IN THERE, BUT THE CONDITION'S TERRIBLE. NEXT, UH, WE HAVE A PALM READER ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, THE ACROSS FROM, UM, THE TARGET STORE. . YEAH, WE HAVE A PALM READER IN TOWN. AND, UM, I NEVER WENT. AND, UM, ON THE LEFT, THAT'S JUST AN OLD, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT IS. THAT'S LIKE, UH, THAT MUST HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE EARLY 19 HUNDREDS. BUT THAT'S JUST PART OF THE LEGACY. AND THESE PROPERTIES ARE ABANDONED. THEY'RE ABANDONED. YEAH. THE, YEAH, THE OWNERS HAVE WHAT? NOT PAID TAX. WHAT, HOW, HOW DOES THAT WORK? I, I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW THEIR TAX RECORDS. UM, NOTHING'S GONE UP FOR SHERIFF SALE IN THERE, SO, RIGHT. THEY MUST BE SAYING CURRENT ON LEAST SOMEWHAT CURRENT. YEAH. WELL, THE, THE ONE ABANDONED, I KNOW THEY HAD A SIGN OUT A COUPLE WEEKS AGO FOR SALE. I LOOKED IT UP AND I, IT'S SOME PEOPLE IN NEW YORK I THINK WHO OWN IT. SO, UH, AGAIN, UM, NEXT SLIDE. UM, VACANT LOT FOR SALE AND ANYTHING ELSE, ANY OTHER PROPERTY IN THIS TOWNSHIP THAT'S UP FOR SALE. LIKE THE PROPERTY ON THE LEFT, IT WOULDN'T BE UP FOR SALE VERY LONG 'CAUSE SOMEBODY WOULD BUY IT IF IT WAS ZONED SO THAT IT CAN BE DEVELOPED. AND, UH, THE, THE PHOTO ON THE RIGHT IS WALTON'S, WHICH IS FINE, BUT THEN I KNOW, UH, THE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD IS WORKING WITH, UM, UM, THE PROPERTY ON THE LEFT WITH THE STORAGE. THEY'RE ASKING FOR SOME FLEX USE, WHICH, WHICH FRANKLY I'M OKAY WITH. SO NEXT SLIDE. UM, THESE ARE TWO INTERESTING THINGS. THE ON THE RIGHT IS A SHOPPING CENTER, AND IT'S, UM, IT'S BEEN THERE, I DON'T KNOW, ABOUT 10 YEARS. IT'S O IT'S DOING OKAY. I THINK IT'S ONE VACANCY AWAY FROM A SMOKE SHOP, FRANKLY. AND, UH, ON THE LEFT, THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM THERE IS HOW DID THAT BIG, UM, WHITE BUILDING GET PLACED RIGHT NEXT TO A NUMBER OF RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES? AND THAT, THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH THE ZONING IS IT'S FRAGMENTED, IT'S NOT STRUCTURED. THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO PLAN. AND, UM, WE BELIEVE THERE'S A, THERE'S A BETTER WAY. THANK YOU FOR THE, THANK YOU FOR THE PHOTOS, JEFF. SO, YEAH, DID SOMEBODY HAVE SOMETHING? I'M SORRY. SO THE NEXT SLIDE. SO THE CURRENT ZONING ALLOWS FOR COMMERCIAL USES, VEHICLE ORIENTED USES, WHICH ALSO INCLUDES, UM, USED CAR DEALERSHIPS, GAS STATIONS, AND, UM, SIMILAR, UH, MIXED COMMERCIAL PARCELS TOWERS. SOMEBODY COULD PUT A RADIO TOWER THERE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT? AND, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST AN UNSIGHTLY THING. UM, AND THEN LIMITED RESIDENTIAL ABOVE COMMERCIAL. SO SOMEBODY COULD BUILD A COMMERCIAL BUILDING ALONG THE ROAD WITH SOME RESIDENTIAL UP FRONT. IT'S JUST SIMPLY NOT WORKING. WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENED IS WE'VE HAD LIMITED REINVESTMENT, AS I SAID, FRAGMENTED DEVELOPMENT. WE CLEARLY HAVE AN AGING DETERIORATING CORRIDOR AND IT'S, IT'S LOOKING WORSE EVERY DAY. SO, UM, UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP NEEDED A VISION FOR THE CORRIDOR AND THEY ALSO NEEDED TO, UM, IDENTIFY A NEED. NEXT SLIDE. AND IN 2024 IN, UM, ON NOVEMBER 18TH, 2024, I HEAR THE TOWNSHIP COMP PLAN. THE TOWNSHIP SIGNED THE COMP PLAN. MY NAME'S APP, MY NAME'S IN IT, SO ARE YOURS. SO [01:15:01] THE TOWNSHIP, UM, CONDUCTED, THEY DIDN'T IGNORE IT. THE TOWNSHIP AS A WHOLE, WE HAVE NOT IGNORED THE FACT THAT IT'S THERE. UM, THE QUESTION IS WHAT SHOULD BE THERE? NEXT SLIDE. SO IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UM, MAIN STREET, I CALL IT MAIN STREET'S, RIDGE AND MEAN WAS IDENTIFIED ONE OF ONLY THREE, EXCUSE ME, I INTERRUPT FOR ONE SECOND. YEAH, I GOT JEFF. HE SAID THE 2024 COMPLAINT. YEAH. DIDN'T WE JUST APPROVE A, A NEW COMPLAINT? UH, THAT WAS 20, IT WAS THE END OF 2024. THAT WAS THE ONE AGO. YEAH, THAT IT WAS TIME GOES TIME'S MOVING FAST. MR. PETERS . ALL RIGHT. SO, YES, SO NUMBER NOVEMBER 18TH, 2024. SO IN THE COMP PLAN, UH, MAIN STREET WAS IDENTIFIED AS ONE OF ONLY THREE TOWNSHIP REDEVELOPMENT ZONES, ONLY THREE. IT'S SPECIFICALLY CALLED OUT. UH, IT ALSO SAID THAT THE EXISTING NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL ZONING IDENTIFIED AS WEAK AS A WEAK DEVELOPMENT MARKET REDEVELOPMENT SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THE AREAS WHERE INFRASTRUCTURE ALREADY EXISTS, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THE MAIN STREET CARTER IS. IT, IT REQUIRE, IT, IT IDENTIFIED GREATER FLEXIBILITY, UH, OF RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL, AND OFFICE. AND IT ALSO IDENTIFIED THAT HOUSING DIVERSITY NEEDS TO ACCOMMODATE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHIC AND AGING RESIDENTS. SO BASICALLY WHAT THE, THE COMP PLAN SAID IS, PEOPLE LIVE HERE, WE LIVE HERE, AND WE GET OLDER AND WE WANT TO MOVE, WE WANNA MOVE OUT SOME OF OUR BIGGER HOMES TO SMALLER HOMES AS THERE. AND SO WE'RE FORCED, PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO LEAVE THE TOWNSHIP. SO IT WOULD BE IDEAL TO HAVE SOME MIXED USE SMALLER HOMES SO THAT PEOPLE CAN STAY IN TOWN. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S IN THE, IN THE PLAN THAT YOU'LL SEE SHORTLY BY, UH, MR. MORRISSEY, IS THERE'S, UH, AGE RESTRICTED PROPERTIES ON THIS IN THE PROPOSAL, AGE RESTRICTED, WHICH WOULD HAVE ZERO IMPACT ON SCHOOLS. SO AGAIN, THESE ARE THE TOWNSHIP'S CONCLUSIONS. THEY'RE NOT MY CONCLUSIONS. THEY'RE NOT MR. MARCY'S CONCLUSIONS. THIS IS RIGHT FROM THE TOWNSHIP COMP PLAN. NEXT SLIDE. AND SEE HERE, THIS IS PAGE, UM, THIS IS RIGHT FROM THE COMP PLAN. THIS, THIS SHOWS EIGHT CIRCLES. THE, THERE ARE EIGHT CIRCLES, BUT THE THREE UP OF THE TOP LEFT IS MAIN STREET, THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE, THE BIG ONE, THAT'S PFIZER, SO TO SPEAK. AND THEN THE BOTTOM CORNER IS OAKS. THERE ARE THREE REDEVELOPMENT AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN, HAVE IDENTIFIED AND AGREED TO BY THE TOWNSHIP. UH, THREE OTHERS ARE OPEN SPACE AREAS, AND TWO OF THE SMALLER ONES ARE ABOUT, UH, UM, TO EXAMINE WHAT THE ZONING IS THERE, BUT NOT NECESSARILY REDEVELOPMENT. DID I GET THAT RIGHT? YEP. OKAY, GOOD. THAT'S VERY GOOD. SO THE TOWNSHIP SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED THIS MAIN STREET CORRIDOR AS A REDEVELOPMENT ZONE. SO, UM, THE NEXT SLIDE. SO ON PAGE 69, I LEFT THE, THE, THE, THE NUMBER IN THERE. ON PAGE 69, THE NARRATIVE ON PAGE 69 SPECIFICALLY STATES, AND I'LL READ THIS JUST INTO THE RECORD, UH, THE RICH PIKE CORRIDOR, OTHERWISE KNOWN TO ME IS THE, THE MAIN STREET. UH, WHILE THIS CORRIDOR HAS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF VACANT LAND, OVERALL DEVELOPMENT IS SPOTTY AND TYPICALLY UNDERUSED. THE OBJECTIVES FOR THIS AREA IS TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT AND REDEVELOPMENT TO CREATE A VIABLE CORRIDOR WITH ADEQUATE TRAFFIC CONTROL. AND I HIGHLIGHT THIS REZONING FROM NEIGHBORHOOD CONVENIENCE. COMMERCIAL IS RECOMMENDED WITH NEW ZONING THAT CREATES A FLEXIBLE, UH, FLEXIBILITY OF USES WITH POTENTIAL RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL AND OFFICE. WITH THE RESIDENTIAL BEING CLOSE TO EXISTING RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL, NEAR COMMERCIAL, THE PLAN THAT, UM, FOX LANE HOMES IS GONNA SHOW YOU IN A, IN A, IN A MINUTE IS EXACTLY WHAT'S IDENTIFIED IN THIS PARAGRAPH, RESIDENTIAL NEXT TO RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL NEXT TO COMMERCIAL. SO, UH, I'LL TAKE A BREAK AND MR. UH, MARCY'S GONNA COME UP AND, AND RUN THROUGH SOME, UH, SOME OF HIS POINTS. THANKS AL. UM, ONCE AGAIN, AND, UH, GREG KINDA MENTIONED, MY NAME IS JOE MORRISEY, ONE OF THE PRINCIPAL PRINCIPALS IN FOX LANE HOMES. UM, LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON FOX LANE. UH, I SPENT 20 YEARS WITH ONE OF THE LARGE NATIONAL HOME BUILDERS BETWEEN WASHINGTON, DC AND PHILLY. CAME UP WITH PHILLY IN 2007, UM, AND AFTER 20 YEARS, DECIDED TO START A HOME BILLING COMPANY WITH A COUPLE BUSINESS PARTNERS. AND WE STARTED FOX LANE HOMES. SO THIS YEAR WE'LL DO PROBABLY ABOUT 350 HOMES, ABOUT 110 IN SUBURBAN PHILLY. UM, WE'LL DO ABOUT ANOTHER 85 IN, UM, PITTSBURGH, AND WE'LL DO ABOUT 75 IN COASTAL DELAWARE. AND THEN WE JUST, UM, OPEN UP A DI DIVISION OUTSIDE OF CARMEL, UH, INDIANA. BUT WE SPECIALIZE IN SEMI-CUSTOM. IF TOLL BROTHERS IS HERE AND THE, [01:20:01] YOU KNOW, THE HIGHEST CUSTOM BUILDERS HERE, WE TRY TO BE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE. SO WE RUN A LITTLE BIT MORE EFFICIENTLY THAN, THAN A SMALLER BUILDER. UM, BUT AS FAR AS IF PEOPLE WANNA DO SPAS AND SUNROOMS AND CONSERVATORIES AND OUTDOOR FIREPLACES, INCLUDING SWIMMING POOLS, WE'LL PRETTY MUCH DO ALL OF THAT. UM, RECENTLY WE'VE DONE A, A FEW REZOS. UM, WE'RE CURRENTLY GOING THROUGH REZONING IN, UM, UH, ALFORD TOWNSHIP. UM, WE JUST DID ONE IN, IN SHELTON, HAM, UH, TOWNSHIP. WE ALSO DID ONE IN MIDDLETOWN TOWNSHIP, BUCKS COUNTY. AND A LITTLE BIT OF OUR SUCCESS IS BECAUSE I'M THE ONE GOING TO ALL THE MEETINGS AND DEALING WITH THE NEIGHBORS, DEALING WITH THE TOWNSHIP STAFF AND TOWNSHIP OFFICIALS, WE TRY TO SIT DOWN WITH THE NEIGHBORS UP FRONT. WE TRY TO SIT DOWN WITH THE TOWNSHIP AND TRY TO COME UP WITH A PLAN THAT WE THINK EVERYBODY WILL FEEL GOOD ABOUT. AND THERE'S A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH. SO FOR THIS PLAN, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON IT FOR PROBABLY A LITTLE OVER SIX MONTHS. UM, JEFF HAD A CALL WITH US EARLY ON AND UM, KIND OF GAVE US SOME POTENTIAL IDEAS OF WHAT COULD OR COULDN'T WORK THERE. WE GOT A CHANCE TO SIT DOWN WITH, WITH TOWNSHIP STAFF. WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH PARTNERS IN NORRISTOWN, YOU KNOW, ON SOME OF THE, THE RETAIL AND SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL. AND THEN JOHN KENNEDY LAND PLANNING, UM, ON SOME OF THE OTHER STUFF. SO WHERE WE CAME UP WITH IS THE THREE PARCELS ALONG MAIN STREET, UH, AS GREG SAID, IS ROUGHLY 50.39 ACRES. UM, THE FAR ONE ON THE LEFT IS JUST UNDER 18 ACRES. THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE IS ABOUT 10 ACRES, AND ON THE FAR RIGHT IS ABOUT 22.47 ACRES. I DO THINK THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT THESE THREE PROPERTIES TOGETHER HAVE EVER BEEN IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. UM, OR, YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY THE, THE SUPERVISORS. BUT ULTIMATELY WHAT WE LOOKED AT AND ALL THE BACK AND FORTH AND TRYING TO COME UP WITH A PLAN THAT WE THINK MAKES SENSE, UM, WE THINK SOME TYPE OF MIXED USE RETAIL UP ALONG MAIN STREET WITH, UH, DIFFERENT TYPES OF RESIDENTIAL. AS YOU MOVE BACK, I DID GET A CHANCE TO READ YOUR 2024 COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND WE ALSO LOOKED AT THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY 2040 PLAN JUST TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME PRODUCTS THAT WE THOUGHT WOULD, UH, WOULD MAKE SENSE HERE. JEFF, DO YOU MIND GO TO NEXT SLIDE. SO WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE OVERALL PLAN AND POTENTIALLY WHAT COULD WORK, THIS IS KIND OF WHERE WE START. SO WE LOOK AT KIND OF THE, THE NATURAL FEATURES. UM, THERE IS A POWER LINE EASEMENT GOING RIGHT THROUGH, SO THAT'S GONNA CHANGE SOME OF THE STUFF YOU DO. THE RED THAT YOU SEE ON THERE IS STEEP SLOPES. THE LIGHT BLUE, UM, IS ANY KIND OF STREAM BUFFER, WETLANDS BUFFER OR ANY TYPE OF WETLANDS ALONG THERE. AND THEN THE GREEN IS THE POTENTIAL STORM WATER OF ONCE YOU BUILD ANYTHING THERE, HOW YOU COULD POTENTIALLY, UH, HANDLE THE WATER. DO YOU MIND DOING NEXT SLIDE? UM, WHEN WE MET WITH THE TOWNSHIP STAFF, THERE WERE A COUPLE THINGS THEY THOUGHT WERE REALLY IMPORTANT. UM, NUMBER ONE WAS LINING UP THE, THE MAIN ROAD INTO THE DEVELOPMENT WITH KLEIN ROAD. SO WE DID THAT. UM, THEY THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO TIE IN, UM, THE ROAD BEHIND LIGHTLE TO THE GROCERY STORE THERE. SO WE DID THAT. AND THEN THEY ALSO THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO TRY TO, UM, TIE ALL THREE PROPERTIES TOGETHER, UM, FOR THE ROAD SYSTEM. SO WE'RE ACTUALLY SHOWING THE ROAD GOING THROUGH, UH, OR UNDERNEATH THE POWER LINES. I BELIEVE THAT'S ACTUALLY A, A PORTION OF TOWNSHIP PROPERTY THAT WE WOULD NEED AN EASEMENT FROM THE TOWNSHIP TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. WHAT, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY GOING UNDER? JUST THE, THE ROAD GOING UNDER UNDERNEATH THE POWER LINES. THE POWER LINES WOULD BE ABOVE, YEAH, I THOUGHT MAYBE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT TUNNEL. OH, NO, NO, NO TUNNELS. LIKE COULDN'T BUILD A TUNNEL. YOU KNOW, YOU JUST TALKING ABOUT AN ACCESS ROAD THROUGH THAT AREA. ACCESS, EXACTLY. OKAY. AND THEN WHEN WE GET A LITTLE FARTHER, I'LL SHOW YOU. UM, I'LL SHOW YOU KIND OF THE TRAILS AND, AND HOW WE TRY TO CONNECT IT ALL TO, TO MAKE IT WORK. BUT WE ARE JUST TRYING TO LOOK AT, INSTEAD OF COMING IN WITH A SKETCH PLAN THAT DIDN'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF DETAIL OR THOUGHT BEHIND IT, WE'VE ALREADY KIND OF DONE SOME OF THE ENGINEERING BEHIND IT TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT COULD POTENTIALLY GO HERE. DO YOU MIND? SO, UM, BOTH GREG AND AL KIND OF MENTIONED IT. YOU HAVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL, WHICH IS EVERYTHING IN RED. UM, AS YOU SEE KIND OF GOING DOWN MAIN STREET THERE, YOU HAVE LIMERICK TOWNSHIP ON ONE SIDE, UH, ON TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD. YOU HAVE TRAP BOROUGH ON THE FAR RIGHT. UM, AND THEN KIND OF EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. UM, WHEN WE LOOKED AT IT, TELL YOU THE EXACT NUMBERS WE SHOWED OUT OF THE 35 PARCELS THAT WE COUNTED IN RED THERE, HALF OF 'EM WE BELIEVE ARE RENTED. AND IT LOOKS LIKE ONLY ROUGHLY 30% OF THEM ARE CURRENTLY BEING UTILIZED. UM, SO RIGHT NOW WITH THE ZONING, IT DOES LOOK LIKE A ZONING THAT ISN'T WORKING AS WELL AS IT POSSIBLY COULD BE FOR SUCH A GOOD STREET IN SUCH A GREAT LOCATION. UM, WE JUST WANTED TO SHOW THE EXISTING FEATURES JUST SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE OUR PROPERTIES, THE, THE, THE GREEN THERE IN THE MIDDLE. WHEN WE GET A LITTLE CLOSER, IT'LL, [01:25:01] IT'LL JUMP OUT AT YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE. THIS IS KIND OF A NICE PLAN. SO SAME THING SHOWS THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL. UM, EVERYTHING IN GREEN IS WHAT'S CURRENTLY VACANT OR OPEN SPACE. ANYTHING IN PINK IS UNDERUTILIZED OR NON-CONFORMING. AND THEN ANYTHING IN YELLOW IS CURRENTLY A, A BUSINESS OR SOME KIND OF COMMERCIAL, WHICH IS PROBABLY WHAT THE ZONING KIND OF CALLED FOR. BUT BETWEEN THE, THE GREEN AND PINK, YOU, YOU PROBABLY HAVE A LITTLE MORE THAN TWO THIRDS, UH, IS EITHER UNDERUTILIZED OR NOT UTILIZED AT ALL. UH, HELP ME OUT HERE. SO THE PINK, THE PINK IS WHAT AGAIN? SO THE PINK IS WHAT WE CALL EITHER UNDERUTILIZED OR NON-CONFORMING. SO IT, IT'S EITHER NON-CONFORMING TO THE CURRENT, UM, NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL ZONING OR IT'S UNDERUTILIZED FOR WHAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY BE. ALRIGHT, SO, SO YOU DOWN HERE ON THE RIGHT, THE YELLOW, THAT'S THAT, UH, WHAT IS IT, SPORTS COMPLEX OR WHATEVER IT IS, RIGHT? ALL THE WAY TO THE FAR RIGHT? CORRECT. SO YOU ALL THE PINK, UH, UH, GOING UP UP MAIN STREET OR RIDGE, THOSE ARE HOUSES ALONG THERE UP TO GREENWOOD, RIGHT? CORRECT. AND THEN AFTER GREENWOOD, THERE'S SOME HOUSES THEN YOU'VE GOT A BI, A COUPLE BUSINESSES THERE, CORRECT? IS THAT THE TWO IN PINK THERE ON THE, AFTER THE YELLOW? WHAT'S THE YELLOW ONE? THE, UM, I ALMOST TELL YOU I HAVE A LIST OF ALL OF 'EM. UM, SO ALONG THAT SIDE YOU HAVE THE QUAKER STATE, IS THERE THE PLAYFUL PAW? IS THERE FLORAL DESIGN? THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR, YEAH. WHICH GARAGE? YELLOW. OKAY. AND THEN THE FLOWER SHOW DO FLOWER PLACE? YES. THAT NEXT DOOR THAT'S IN THE PINK RIGHT NOW, OR THE YELLOW OR WE, WE PROBABLY SHOWED THAT AS, AS PINK IS EITHER KIND OF UNDERUTILIZED FOR WHAT THE, THE CURRENT ZONING IS. SO, SO WHAT'S YOUR PLAN FOR THE UNDERUTILIZED TO BUY IT? NOT NECESSARILY. SO I, I THINK THE THOUGHT AND, AND ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WHEN WE KIND OF MET WITH AL AND TALKED THROUGH IT AND, AND OBVIOUSLY AL HAD SOME HISTORY OF THE SITE AND THE TOWNSHIP AND, AND LIVES HERE, UM, WE WERE KINDA LIKE, HEY, HOW DO WE TRY TO SOLVE A PROBLEM THAT'S A POTENTIAL ISSUE WITH THE TOWNSHIP? BECAUSE THE STORY WE WERE KIND OF TOLD WAS THAT WHEN THERE WERE SMALLER PROPERTIES, TRYING TO REZONE SOMETHING FOR A SMALLER PROPERTY DIDN'T MAKE SENSE. IT'S LIKE, HEY, WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO TO TRY TO MAKE MAIN STREET KIND OF FEEL LIKE A MAIN STREET WITH THE RETAIL AND THE RESIDENTIAL AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES WITH IT? SO OUR HOPE IS THAT WITH OUR PROPERTY BEING THE 50 ACRES, THAT COULD KIND OF BE THE CATALYST OF WHATEVER HAPPENS IN OTHER PARTS OF IT JUST FROM BEING IN REAL ESTATE AND, AND KIND OF WHAT GOES WITH IT, WITH OUR DEVELOPMENT, IF IT ENDS UP HAPPENING AND HOW WE THINK IT COULD HAPPEN, I DO THINK IT WOULD SPUR OTHER PEOPLE TO BUY THE OTHER PROPERTIES ALONG THERE AND TRY TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR ON A MUCH SMALLER SCALE. UM, BUT OUR EXPECTATION IS THAT IF WE COULD DO SOMETHING WITH OUR 50 ACRES AND IF YOU END UP REZONING THAT ENTIRE AREA, WE WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO CONTROL EVERYTHING. BUT WE ALSO UNDERSTAND FROM THE TOWNSHIP, THEY DON'T WANT TO JUST SPOT ZONE ONE SMALL THING. THEY WANNA LOOK AT IT FROM A KIND OF A BIGGER PICTURE. I GUESS THAT'S WHAT I'M, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS IT ALMOST, LOOK, OTHER THAN THE GREEN, YOU'RE ALMOST LOOK LIKE YOU'RE SPOTTING IT. WHY WOULDN'T YOU JUST PROPOSE THAT WE, THAT YOU BUY THAT AND, AND DEVELOP THAT? 'CAUSE I MEAN, WINDS IS A GREAT BUSINESS, BUT IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A PRETTY BUSINESS. UH, OF COURSE THE THE PALM READER DOWN THERE IS, YOU KNOW, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THAT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE ALMOST SPOT. IT'S NOT, I I THINK I DON'T HAVE CONTROL OVER ALL THE OTHER PROPERTIES. I UNDERSTAND THAT. YEAH. I ONLY HAVE THE 50 ACRES AND EVEN LIKE THE PALM READER ISN'T THERE ANYMORE? LIKE THAT'S A, THAT'S A VACANT WELL I'M JUST CALLING IT THAT BECAUSE THAT'S TO BE YEAH, WE'RE THAT'S A JOKE. IT'S A JOKE. GOT IT. WE'RE NOT, I KNOW IT'S NOT A PALM READER ANYMORE, BUT IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY HOME THAT IS JUST SITTING THERE. RIGHT. AND, AND WE ARE IN JUST, IT'S A RENTAL, RIGHT? YEAH. IT'S PROBABLY EVEN A RENTAL. IT'S PROBABLY NOT EVEN A RENTAL. I DON'T THINK IT'S, IT'S A RENTAL OUT. I DON'T THINK SO. I'VE I'VE NEVER DRIVEN BY THERE WHERE THERE'S A CAR IN THE DRIVEWAY. YEAH, I IT'S VACANT. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. I, OKAY. I THINK FOR TONIGHT WHAT WE WERE HOPING FOR WAS TO PRESENT IT AND THEN HOPEFULLY IF YOU WERE IN AGREEMENT AND, YOU KNOW, THE PERFECT SITUATION FOR US IS FOR US TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH, WITH JEFF AND TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF TAX AMENDMENT ZONING CHANGE FOR THIS AREA THAT COULD POTENTIALLY, HOPEFULLY SOLVE IT TO, TO MAKE THIS A, YOU KNOW, HIGHLY DEVELOPABLE PART OF THE TOWNSHIP. UM, SO WITH THAT, I'LL KIND OF GO TO THE, THE PLAN ITSELF. I ALSO HAVE 11 BY SEVENTEENS. I DUNNO IF THAT HELPS. DO YOU GUYS WANNA GREAT. YEAH. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIR. THANK YOU. SO I'LL KIND OF TAKE YOU [01:30:01] THROUGH IT AND THEN, UM, AS WE GO THROUGH ANY QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING, AND WHAT I'LL DO IS I'LL KIND OF GIVE YOU THE, THE QUICK OVERVIEW FIRST AS I GO THROUGH THE NEXT SLIDES, I'LL ACTUALLY TELL, TALK ABOUT THE LITTLE BIT OF THE PRODUCT. BUT WE REALLY WERE STRATEGIC AND AS ALE SAID, WHEN WE FIRST CAME IN, WE HAD A, A PLAN OF SOME RESIDENTIAL AND SOME MULTI-FAMILY BECAUSE IN THE 2024, UM, UPPER PROVIDENCE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT DID TALK ABOUT OTHER, THE TWO HOUSING TYPES. IT WAS ATTACHED UNITS. AND I THINK MULTI FAM, MUL MULTI-FAMILY WERE KIND OF THE, WHAT WAS KIND OF CONSIDERED THE MOST IN NEED. I THINK YOU HAVE A LOT OF MULTIFAMILY KIND OF COMING THROUGH THE APPROVAL SYSTEM NOW. SO THE THOUGHT WAS MAYBE THAT WASN'T. SO WE REALLY DID KIND OF, YOU KNOW, FOCUS IN ON KIND OF THE ATTACHED PRODUCT. BUT THE WAY WE LOOKED AT IT IS WE SHOWED ROUGHLY 45,000 SQUARE FEET OF, UH, RETAIL ALONG, UH, MAIN STREET, KIND OF RIDGE PIKE AS YOU KIND OF SEE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE, THE POWER LINES. AND THEN ALSO THE, THE RIGHT SIDE TALKING TO AL AND DRIVING AROUND THE AREA, THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A WHOLE LOT OF SIT DOWN RESTAURANTS. WE DID THINK THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO POTENTIALLY GET ONE OR TWO SIT DOWN RESTAURANTS IN THIS LOCATION. UM, I HEAR PIZZA UNO'S, LOCATION, . I KNOW, WELL NOW I KNOW I CAN'T GO 8,000 SQUARE FEET. I GOTTA GO SMALLER NOW, YOU KNOW, DON'T GO 8,000 SQUARE FEET. SO, UM, WE, THESE ARE TED K EACH . SO WE ALSO, UH, WE ALSO LOOKED AT MAYBE DOING, UM, SOME KIND OF LIKE WHAT THEY CALL MED TAIL, WHICH IS KIND OF MEDICAL, UH, IN THAT KIND OF OFFICE RETAIL COMPONENT WHERE YOU COULD HAVE AN URGENT CARE, UM, YOU COULD HAVE SOME DOCTOR'S OFFICE, UM, SOME OTHER THINGS THAT COULD KIND OF WORK THAT WAY. AND THEN IF IT'S OKAY, UM, I MIGHT JUST POINT OVER HERE WAY BE ABLE TO HEAR ME THAT WAY. SORRY, JUST TALK A LITTLE LOUDER IF YOU DON'T MIND. YEAH, YEAH, SURE. SO IT'S JUST EASIER FOR ME THEN WHEN I GET TO THE PICTURES, IT'LL MAKE, UH, MAKE A LOT MORE SENSE. SO, UM, RETAIL, A LONG RIDGE BIKE HERE. WE WERE GONNA USE STACK TOWNS. THANK YOU. WE ARE GONNA USE STACK TOWNS HERE, WHICH ARE GONNA BE FOUR STORY EACH WITH, UH, TWO UNITS IN IT. I THINK THERE'S A, A NEIGHBORHOOD AROUND THE CORNER THAT YOU GUYS WERE DOING STACK TOWNS, WHICH I THINK MIGHT BE ONE OF THE FIRST ONES IN THE, IN THE TOWNSHIP TO BROTHERS. DID A BUNCH AT KING PR AND TOWN CENTER, KIND OF AROUND THAT TOWN CENTER. UM, WE WERE DOING THE TROOP TOWN CENTER HERE IN THE FRONT. THIS AREA HAS ACTUALLY BEEN A LITTLE BIT BIGGER THAN WHAT KING PR HAS AT THEIR TOWN CENTER. I HEAR IT DOESN'T SEEM AS GREAT, BUT IT'S PRETTY GOOD SIZE. SO THIS COULD BE THE YOGA CLASS, THIS COULD BE THE MUSIC FESTIVAL, THIS COULD BE THE FARMER'S MARKET. SO RETAIL DOWN HERE, FOUR STORY STACK TOWNS KIND OF HERE. WE ARE GONNA DO THREE STORY TOWN HOMES, KIND OF ON THE, ON THE OUTSIDE, UM, WITH, YOU KNOW, OPTIONAL ROOF DECKS OR ATTICS. AND SO THEY WANTED LIKE AN ADDITIONAL BEDROOM. AND THEN WE WERE DOING TWO STORY, WHAT WE CALL TWINS HERE, UM, WHICH ARE ALWAYS DESIRABLE PRODUCTS BECAUSE IT WORKS FOR, YOU KNOW, YOUNG FAMILIES. IT WORKS FOR SINGLE DIVORCED BUYERS. AND THEN WE THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE KIND OF A GOOD TRANSITION, KIND OF OVER TO THE SINGLE FAMILIES. YOU COULD POTENTIALLY WITH THE ZONING DO 10 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS UP NEXT TO THE OTHER SINGLE FAMILIES. WE JUST FIGURED WE WOULD LEAVE THAT AS OPEN SPACE. MAINLY BECAUSE ONCE WE SIT DOWN, ASSUMING THIS IS A PROJECT THAT IT'S ACTUALLY FELT GOOD ABOUT, WE WOULD START MEETING WITH ALL THE NEIGHBORS TO TALK THROUGH THAT. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THAT WOULD BE AN ISSUE WITH THAT. IF IT'S NOT WORKING, I THINK, YEAH, I THINK YOU'RE, YOU'RE SAVING YOURSELF A LOT OF HEADACHE BY DOING THAT, TAKING THE BATTLE. SO THEN AS YOU KIND OF COME A LITTLE FARTHER, WE WERE GONNA DO CARRIAGES, UM, OVER HERE. SO THOSE WOULD BE YOUR AGE RESTRICTED, UM, MOVE DOWN BUYERS 55 AND OLDER. WE'VE DONE A COUPLE NEIGHBORHOODS. UM, WE'VE DONE ONE IN BLUE BELL. UH, WE'VE DONE ONE IN, UH, LAFAYETTE HILL. WE'VE HAD A LOT OF SUCCESS WITH THE ACTIVE ADULT NEIGHBORS. UM, YOU KNOW, NEIGHBORS LIKE IT. MOST POLICE CHILDREN, IT'S LESS TRAFFIC. IT SPRING TAX HOURS. WE THREW A COUPLE, UM, PICKLEBALL COURTS UP TOP. AND THEN EVERYTHING THAT YOU KIND OF SEE IN WHITE IS A TRAIL SYSTEM THAT LITERALLY TAKES YOU AROUND THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD, INCLUDING POTENTIALLY CONNECTING INTO THE SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD. YEAH. UM, JUST CLOSER TO TOWN, TO PINE ROAD OVER, UH, OVER THIS WAY. THIS IS THE WAY THE GROCERY STORE HERE, BUT THE THOUGHT PROCESS WAS LIKE, NOTHING'S ACTUALLY STONE AND THAT'S WHY WE JUST WANTED TO COME HERE AND GET YOUR THOUGHTS AND FEEDBACK ON IT. BUT A REALLY NICE MIXED USE, COMBINING THE RETAIL, COMBINING KIND OF THE, THE FOUR STORY TALENTS AND KIND OF GET YOUR, YOU KNOW, PRICE POINT, YOUR ENTRY LEVEL BUYERS. YOU HAVE YOUR THREE STORY TALENTS, WHICH WOULD BE YOUR, YOU KNOW, FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS. MAYBE SOMEBODY THAT'S JUST STARTING A FAMILY. THE, THE TWINS HAVE TO WORK FOR EVERYBODY. EVEN THEIR FAMILY'S A LITTLE BIT OLDER. YOU MOVE DOWN TO BE DIVORCED AND THEN YOUR AGE RESTRICTED, WHICH FOR US, MOST OF OUR, OUR BUYERS BUY WITHIN, YOU KNOW, 10 MILES MAYBE DIDN'T [01:35:01] WANT TO EITHER STAY IN THE SAME AREA, STAY IN THE SAME SCHOOL DISTRICT, UM, BUT THEY JUST WANNA STAY CLOSE TO THEIR KIDS. SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, WE FELT PRETTY GOOD, UH, ABOUT THAT. TOTAL UNITS ON THIS PLAN SHOWED ROUGHLY 2 31 OVERALL 50 ACRES BA BASED ON WHAT I SEE, UH, JUST THE ONE COMMENT IS PARKING WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENTS. I MEAN, I DON'T SEE ANY PARKING, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T TELL. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, KIND OF ADDITIONAL PARKING. WELL, I MEAN, YEAH, I MEAN THE, I DON'T SEE ANY PARKING FOR ALL THESE UNITS. THAT'S RIGHT. I MEAN 251 UNITS, I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT I AT LEAST TWO CARS PER PER UNIT PLUS GUESTS, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. I, I JUST, JUST TO COMMENT. NO, THAT THAT'S FAIR. I DON'T SEE ANY, AND PART OF THIS IS, SO EACH UNIT HAS A GARAGE. EACH UNIT WILL HAVE A DRIVEWAY, BUT, BUT I UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU HAVE A SUPERBOWL PARTY OR ANYTHING ELSE, YOU, YOU'RE GONNA NEED ADDITIONAL PARKING. AND TO YOUR POINT, THERE'S NEVER BEEN A TOWN HOME NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE YOU DON'T NEED ADDITIONAL PARKING. I THINK FOR THIS ONE, WE ARE JUST TRYING TO GET KIND OF A ROUGH IDEA OF WHAT IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE. I, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT'S FAIR. I'M JUST MAKING, JUST MAKING A COMMENT. NO, I DON'T SEE IN THIS, THIS, YOU KNOW, PICTURE. AND I ALSO DON'T SEE VERY VIVIDLY THE, UH, THE ENTRANCE AND EXITS ONTO MAIN STREET, RICH PIKE THROUGH THIS DEVELOPMENT. I MEAN, I KINDA SEE ONE, YEAH, ONE MAJOR ONE TOWARDS THE RIGHT. THEY HAVE A LOT OF LANDSCAPING AROUND THEM, SO, RIGHT. BUT I, BUT I, SO IT'S RIGHT. I, SO I JUST SAY IT IS HARD TO, YEAH, JUST MAKE A COMMENT. 'CAUSE, 'CAUSE THE CORRIDOR IS, IS A TRAFFIC ISSUE PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH. AND SO I'M JUST CONCERNED THAT YOU GOT, YOU KNOW, ALL THESE UNITS, UM, YOU KNOW, THE ACCESS AND THE TRAFFIC ISSUES ON ONTO MAIN STREET. UM, YOU KNOW, JUST A THAT'S FAIR. JUST A COMMENT. AND OBVIOUSLY IF WE GET FARTHER ALONG THE PROCESS, WE'LL DO ALL THE TRAFFIC STUDIES AND, AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES WITH IT. I'M JUST, THAT'S FAIR. UM, NEXT SLIDE, IF YOU DON'T MIND, JEFF, REAL QUICK, I JUST WANNA GIVE YOU SOME IDEAS OF, OF SOME OF THE PRODUCT. SO THIS IS KIND OF WHAT WE ENVISION, AND LIKE I SAID, NOTHING IS, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET AN IDEA. BUT THE THOUGHT OF POTENTIALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, HAVING SOME SIT DOWN RESTAURANTS WHERE YOU COULD GO FRIDAY, SATURDAY NIGHT DURING THE WEEK, YOU KNOW, GRAB BURGER, YOU KNOW, A KIND OF A, A A NICER DINNER WHERE IT'S NOT, YOU'RE JUST IN AND OUT. UM, KIND OF A, A FAST FOOD STYLE. SO THIS WAS KIND OF OUR IDEA OF WHAT THAT COULD POTENTIALLY LOOK LIKE. ALL THESE KIND OF HAVE THAT VILLAGE GREEN COMPONENT TO IT. UM, SO LIKE I SAID, IF, IF YOU'VE EVER BEEN TO KING OF PRUSSIA TOWN CENTER ON A FRIDAY OR SATURDAY NIGHT AT FIVE, LIKE MOST TIMES YOU CAN'T EVEN GET A PARKING SPACE BECAUSE IT'S SO BUSY. AND THERE'S YOGA CLASSES, THERE ARE KIDS DON'T, DON'T COMPARE THIS TO KING OF PRUSSIA. FAIR. PLEASE ELIMINATE ANY DISCUSSION. FAIR ENOUGH. ANYTHING THAT LOOKS LIKE KING OF PRUSSIA . OKAY. THAT'S FAIR. THAT'S FAIR. SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, JUST KIND OF GIVING YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE ON THE NEXT SLIDE, WHICH NOW, UH, I WON'T SAY IT, BUT WE JUST WANTED TO SHOW THE VILLAGE GREEN, KIND OF THE EVENT SPACE, KIND OF HOW BIG IT IS IN THAT AREA COMPARED TO WHAT THEY HAVE DOWN AT THAT OTHER PLACE THAT WE WON'T DISCUSS. UM, NEXT SLIDE IS KIND OF AN IDEA OF WHAT THE STACKED TOWNS COULD LOOK LIKE. FOUR STORY. UM, ONE UNIT IS THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR. THE SECOND UNIT IS THE THIRD AND FOURTH FLOOR, UH, GARAGES IN THE, IN THE BACK, YOU KNOW, TWO FRONT DOORS. YOU KNOW, WE'D EXPECT THESE TO BE TWO AND THREE BEDROOMS, TWO AND A HALF BATHROOMS. UM, 1600 TO 2150 SQUARE FEET. AND THEN WE'D EXPECT THE AVERAGE SALES PRICE TO BE RIGHT AROUND 460,000 BETWEEN THE TWO UNITS. UM, THREE STORY TOWNS, JUST TRYING TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA WITH OPTIONAL, UM, EITHER LOFTS OR, UH, ROOF DECKS. ALSO THREE BEDROOMS, TWO AND A HALF BATHROOMS, 2200 TO 2,750 SQUARE FEET, UH, OPTION ROOF DECKS. AND THEN AVERAGE SALES PRICE FOR THESE IS JUST UNDER 600,000. UM, TWO STORY TWIN HOMES, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S A, A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, BUT IT'S, IT'S, THEY'RE 28 FEET WIDE. SO WE WOULD JUST ATTACH THEM TOGETHER. ONCE AGAIN, THREE TO FOUR BEDROOMS, TWO AND A HALF BATHROOMS. UM, ROUGHLY 2,650 SQUARE FEET TO 2,850 SQUARE FEET, OPTIONAL FINISHED BASEMENTS. AND WITH THOSE, WE THINK THE AVERAGE SALES PRICE IS ABOUT 725,000. THOSE WOULD'VE A TWO CAR GARAGE AND THEN, YOU KNOW, TWO CAR PARKING UP FRONT. AND THEN THE LAST PRODUCT WE HAD OR PROPOSING, UH, IS AN ACTIVE ADULT CARRIAGE HOME. THIS IS ACTUALLY THE NEIGHBORHOOD WE BUILT, UM, IN BLUE BELL CALLED IRONSTONE OF BLUEBELL, WHICH WAS A REALLY POPULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, IT [01:40:01] WASN'T ACTIVE ADULT, IT WAS MARKET RATE, BUT 55 OF THE 58, UH, PURCHASERS THERE WERE ACTIVE ADULT. THEY WERE 55 AND, AND, AND OVER, UM, THREE BEDROOMS, TWO AND A HALF BATHROOMS, 2,650 TO 3,200 SQUARE FEET. UM, OPTIONAL FINISHED BASEMENTS. WE'D EXPECT THE AVERAGE SALES PRICE ON THOSE TO BE ROUGHLY ABOUT 825,000 A YEAR. SO AS FAR AS PLAN, PRODUCT, ANY QUESTIONS, THOUGHTS? I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, FIRST OF ALL, THANKS FOR ALL THE INFORMATION AND THE ANALYSIS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE DONE. YOU OBVIOUSLY DID SOME HOMEWORK, UM, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU GUYS HAVE ALL MADE A LOT OF GOOD POINTS ABOUT WHAT'S CONSISTENT WITH SORT OF THE INTENT OF THE COMP PLAN AND, AND ALL OF THAT. AND I THINK THE PLAN IS INTERESTING. IT'S GREAT, IT'S GREAT TO SEE SOMETHING PROPOSED FOR THIS STRETCH. I LIVE RIGHT OFF OF GREENWOOD AVE, SO OKAY. VERY FAMILIAR WITH THESE DILAPIDATED PROPERTIES ALONG THE STRIP. UM, MY FIRST HIGH LEVEL, UH, SORT OF REACTION TO THE PLAN IS, UM, YOU KNOW, THE MIXED USE IS GREAT. IT, IT JUST SEEMS HEAVIER. IT'S OBVIOUSLY HEAVIER ON THE RESIDENTIAL VERSUS THE RETAIL AND SORT OF THE COMMERCIAL SIDE. I WOULD LIKE THE PLAN MORE IF, IF, IF IT WORKS, UH, TO GET A LITTLE HIGHER MIX OF THE RETAIL IN THERE. YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU'RE COMING RIGHT UP AGAINST THE BACK OF LIDL, YOU KNOW, WITH, WITH YOUR RESIDENTIAL PRODUCT. I MEAN, I WONDER IF THE PLAN COULD DEVELOP MORE, UH, MORE RETAIL IN THAT ZONE, THAT POCKET, UM, AND MAYBE LESS RESIDENTIAL. I MEAN WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GETTING SATURATED WITH A LOT, A LOT OF UNITS IN THE, IN THE TOWN. ALTHOUGH I APPRECIATE THE, THE MIX AND, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE THE IDEA THE, UH, ACTIVE ADULT POCKET OVER THERE AND SORT OF THAT DISCREET NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, I JUST WONDER IF THE PLAN COULD BE BETTER WITH A LITTLE MORE RETAIL UP UPFRONT, YOU KNOW, UH, OFF OF THE RIDGE PIPE, UH, SIDE OF THINGS. BUT JERRY, JUST REMEMBER THAT WE ALWAYS HAVE TO BALANCE THE NUMBER OF ROOFTOPS IN THE IMMEDIACY TO THE RETAIL, AS I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE. YEAH. SO THAT'S THE BALANCE. WHAT'S THAT LINE? IT'S INTERESTING THAT NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL ZONING REQUIRES THE MARKET ANALYSIS TO BE DONE, RIGHT? YEAH. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD CONTINUE TO DO HERE TO JUSTIFY THOSE ROOFTOPS TOWNSHIP COULD REVIEW IT. SO WHETHER IT'S TWO 30 OR TWO 10, OR COULD BE MORE, IF YOU WANT MORE RETAIL, IT MAY BE MORE RESIDENTIAL, YOU MAY BE LOOKING FOR MORE ROOFTOPS. WE'D WANNA MAKE SURE WHATEVER WE BUILD WOULD SURVIVE, RIGHT? OH, SURE. YEAH. YEAH. SO THAT OF COURSE, THAT'S, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT IT, IT THEN BECOMES, THERE'S A BREAKING POINT. YEAH. IF YOU GET TOO MUCH COMMERCIAL, YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH RESIDENTIAL, SO YEAH, I HEAR YOU. UM, BUT IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S GREAT TO AT LEAST SEE SOME IDEAS FOR THAT CARD OR SOMETHING. SO TAKING THE SENIOR ACTIVE ADULT PIECE OUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE POWERPOINT OR POWER LINES. WHAT, WHAT, HOW MANY UNITS? 66 60 TOTAL ON THE RIGHT SIDE? YEAH. YEAH, JUST THE ACTIVE ADULT. THE ADULT. NO, TAKE, TAKE THAT OUT. THE ACTIVE ADULTS. OH, THE OTHER SIDE. OH, THE OTHER SIDE. YEAH. YOU'RE PROBABLY ABOUT 177 ROUNDHOUSE AND WAS 2 31 TOTALS. YOU'D TAKE 66 OUT. SO ABOUT 150, 160 SOMETHING. YEAH, 60. AND IF YOU LOOK ON THE PLAN, IT GIVES YOU THE EXACT NUMBERS OF EACH PRODUCT. YEAH, YEAH. I DIDN'T WANNA DO THE MATH. OH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. UM, YOU KNOW, MY CONCERN CONTINUES TO BE IN THIS TOWNSHIP, OUR SCHOOLS MM-HMM . AND, UM, THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO SCHOOL UP THAT END OF THE TOWNSHIP. YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO COME DOWN TO, UH, UH, WHAT'S THE ONE DOWN ON WHAT CALLED BY? UH, WELL, PJP IS, WELL, YEAH, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S, I'M TALKING ABOUT POST. OH, WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER PJP BE TRUE. YEAH. YEAH. I'M NOT SURE IF THIS AREA WOULD GO TO, THAT'S WAS EVANS. EVANS, YEAH, EVANS, THAT'S THE ONE. YEAH. EVANS, I MEAN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE REDISTRICTING EVERYTHING. SO, I MEAN, THAT'S SORT OF, BUT IT JUST WIDE OPEN. BUT I SEE ALL THESE DEVELOPMENTS. THAT'S MY CONCERN, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OUR SCHOOL BOARD HAS A TENDENCY TO SPEND MONEY. THEY JUST, WELL, BUT, BUT IF YOU REMEMBER TOM, YOU KNOW, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT, UH, RIGHT HERE, THE QUEST DEVELOPMENT. AND WE WERE ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE ONE ON, ON COLLEGEVILLE, AND THEY TALKED ABOUT THE COLLEGEVILLE DEVELOPMENT, LIKE 28 KIDS OUT OF 400 UNITS. WELL, I KNOW, I KNOW. AND I'M NOT SURE I BUY THAT, SO I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW EITHER. BUT I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOME STATISTICS SOMEWHERE THAT SOMEBODY'S COME UP WITH SOME METRIC THAT THEY'VE SAID, OKAY, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, 1.3 KIDS. I STILL HAVEN'T SEEN THAT 0.3 KID ANYWHERE. I KEEP LOOKING FOR THAT POOR KID. BUT, UM, I, I, I, I JUST ALWAYS CONCERNED ABOUT OUR SCHOOLS BECAUSE I JUST DON'T SEE US, YOU KNOW, THIS TOWNSHIP CONTINUES TO BUILD HOUSING PLANS AND OUR SCHOOL DISTRICT DOESN'T, THEY DON'T COME TO THESE MEETINGS. THEY DON'T SIT IN, THEY JUST SAY, OKAY, WELL THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA NEED. AND THEY BUILD ANOTHER SCHOOL, OR THEY REMODEL A SCHOOL LIKE THEY'RE DOING RIGHT NOW. AND I, I JUST GET CONCERNED ABOUT THAT AND I, I SEE THE MORE WE BUILD ON [01:45:01] THAT END OF THE TOWN, THEY'RE GONNA START SAYING, WHEN ARE WE GONNA PUT A SCHOOL UP THERE SOMEWHERE? AND, UH, I JUST, IT JUST BOTHERS ME A LITTLE BIT. BUT I MEAN, THAT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM. THAT'S OUR PROBLEM. BUT I WILL TELL YOU, PART OF OUR PROCESS AS WE KIND OF GO THROUGH THIS IS WE WILL MEET WITH SCHOOL BOARD PRESIDENT AND KIND OF LEARN ALL THAT. YEAH. YEAH. SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, 'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, WE ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO COME UP WITH A PLAN THAT KIND OF WORKS FOR EVERY, NOW THAT YOU'RE GONNA MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY EVERY TIME, BUT MOST OF THE TIME WE MAKE THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE AND, AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT, THAT WORKS. I KNOW YOU GUYS MEET, ALL THE DEVELOPERS MEET WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD OR THE SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT AND HIS PEOPLE. AND I, I JUST NEVER SEEN ANY POSITIVE COME OUT OF THAT. I NEVER HEAR ANYTHING POSITIVE COMING OUT OF THAT OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY START GOING TO SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS, TELLING, TELLING 'EM WE NEED MORE MONEY. MR. WRIGHT, COULD I, IF I MAY, YEAH, GO FOR IT. BY THE WAY, SO ON. OH, AM I ON? OKAY. HEAR ME. YOU'RE ON. YOU'RE ON. UM, SO IN NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT SUPERINTENDENT DID A PRESENTATION, UH, THAT'S PUBLIC AND I'LL BE HAPPY TO SEND YOU THE, THE YOUTUBE VIDEO. UM, THEY DID AN OUTSTANDING JOB SAYING WHAT WAS IN 2000 AND WHAT IS TODAY IN 2000.7 KIDS PER HOME. RIGHT. TODAY IT'S 0.25. AND ACTUALLY, AND THAT'S FOR INCLUDED A LOT OF FOUR BEDROOM HOMES, WHICH THIS ISN'T SO AT WORST, AT, AT 166 HOMES BECAUSE THOSE ACTIVE ADULT WILL PRODUCE NO KIDS. YEAH. AT 166, THAT'S AT 0.25. AND AGAIN, THAT'S HIGH FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE THE STACK TOWN THAT SOUNDS HIGH. WELL, YEAH, IT IS. SO 41 KIDS. SO, AND, AND THIS IS THE SCHOOL. THIS IS NOT, THIS IS NOT, AND WHEN I, IF YOU SEE WHAT I SEND YOU, THIS IS NOT SOME MADE UP CONSULTANT NUMBER. AND, UM, SO NOT ONLY THAT IS, UM, THE, UM, AGAIN, THIS IS PROBABLY CLOSER TO 0.2 KIDS PER, AND THEN PLUS WHAT, WHAT JEFF SAID ABOUT THE REDISTRICTING, THEY'RE CLOSING THE EIGHTH GRADE AND IN THE PRESENTATION I'M SENDING YOU, THEY'RE GONNA BUILD A NEW EIGHTH GRADE. I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT GONNA CLOSE IT. THEY'RE JUST GONNA REMODEL IT OR BUILD A NEW, THE SUPERINTENDENT, THE SUPERINTENDENT SAID QUOTE, WE HAVE PLENTY OF ROOM IN OUR SCHOOLS. WELL, I HOPE THAT'S TRUE. I I'M GONNA SEND IT TO YOU. OKAY. I'LL SEND IT TO JEFF. YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALSO HEARD THEY'RE GONNA REMODEL THAT OR TURN IT DOWN AND START OVER. YEAH. YEAH. I'LL SEND YOU TO PRESIDENT. BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S IMPORTANT NOT, I, I, I'VE HEARD THOSE NUMBERS. WE'VE LIKE, I THINK JOE JUST MENTIONED OTHER DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE COME IN HERE. THEY'VE SAID THE SAME THING. OH, WE'RE ONLY, WE'VE MET WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD. WE'RE USING THEIR NUMBERS AND IT'S TWO POINT OR THREE POINT OR WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS, 0.6 KIDS PER HOUSE. AND THEY, THEY THROW OUT THE PARK HOUSE THREW OUT THAT, OKAY, WE ONLY GOT, WE'RE ONLY GONNA HAVE 82 KIDS OUTTA ALL PARK HOUSE. AND I CERTAINLY CAN'T DISPUTE THAT 'CAUSE I'M NOT QUOTING AS NUMBERS, BUT IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM LOGICAL TO ME. IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM, WE KEEP BUILDING SCHOOLS. IN 2000, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU, THERE WAS A LOT. RIVER CREST, RIVER CREST ACROSS THE STREET. THE SCHOOL BUSES IN, IN 2000, YOU KNOW, 10 YEARS AGO THEY HAD MULTIPLE SCHOOL BUSES. TODAY IT'S A LOT LESS. THERE'S A LOT. IF YOU WERE TO GO IN OR SEE THE SCHOOL BUS COME IN, THERE'S A LOT LESS KIDS OUT. IT'S NOT THE SAME. IT JUST ISN'T. WELL, WE GRADUATE THOUSAND KIDS THIS YEAR OUT OF, OUT OF SPRINGPORT. WE'RE, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT BREEDING KIDS ANYMORE. NO, NO. EVERYBODY IS DRIVEN TO SCHOOL NOWADAYS. EVERYBODY IS DRIVEN TO SCHOOL NOWADAYS. NOBODY TAKES THE BUS. THAT'S WHAT YOU ASKING. EVEN A 5-YEAR-OLD. I DON'T KNOW. I I, I JUST, I'M ALWAYS CONCERNED WHEN WE'RE, WE CONTINUE TO BUILD MISS TOWNSHIP ON EVERY POSSIBLE LAND THAT IS AVAILABLE. AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT OUR SCHOOLS. IT JUST, I I'M SORRY I DON'T BUY ALL THE NUMBERS. I, I AGREE WITH YOU, TOM, AND I THINK, BUT, BUT I, YOU KNOW, I AGREE A HUNDRED PERCENT AND, AND I WISH SOMEBODY COULD COME AND, AND DEMONSTRATE THAT THE DATA IS WRONG AND HERE'S, HERE'S PROOF THAT IT'S WRONG. BUT SO FAR, I, WELL, THE ONLY PROOF I KNOW IS OUR SCHOOL TAXES KEEP GOING UP AND KEEP TALKING ABOUT BUILDING SCHOOLS. THAT'S A NOTHER PROBLEM. AND THEY, NO, IT ISN'T. IT'S THE SAME THING. WE NEED MORE TEACHERS. WE NEED MORE BUILDINGS. YOU KNOW, WE NEED MORE SPACE. WE HAVE A THOUSAND KIDS GRADUATE THIS YEAR FROM MY HIGH SCHOOL. WE NEED TO REMODEL THAT ALREADY. I MEAN, I KEEP HEARING STUFF LIKE THAT AND I DON'T, I DON'T, I DON'T SEE ANYBODY SAYING, LET'S, LET'S STEP BACK ON ALL THESE PEOPLE WE GOT IN HERE. SO I KNOW WE KEEP SAYING THERE'S ONLY 2.3 KIDS OR WHATEVER IT IS, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IT. BUT DON'T BUY IT. THERE, THERE, THERE ARE ONLY TWO PLACES THAT I'VE SEEN IT ALWAYS BE LOW IS AGE RESTRICTIVE AND APARTMENT COMPLEXES WITH ONE AND TWO BEDROOMS. OKAY. SO SOME OF JOE'S PARTNERS ARE VERY BIG INTO THE APARTMENT DEVELOPMENT WORLD, AND THEY HAVE ALL THE STATISTICS FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, DISTRICT THEMSELVES. WE JUST HAD TO ONE OVER THERE TOWN CENTER THAT THEY COME IN AND TOLD US SAME THING. YEAH. IT'S LIKE, IT'S LIKE 0.06 PER UNIT OR SOMETHING. SO IT'S SOME RIDICULOUSLY LOW NUMBER. SO I DON'T, I DON'T SEE US CLOSING ANY SCHOOLS, DON. RIGHT. SO IF YOU, BUT IF YOU HAVE TO WEIGH ALL OF THOSE THINGS AND THEN YOU HAVE TO WEIGH, YOU WANT COMMERCIAL AND YOU NEED TO HAVE THE ROOFTOPS AND THE PEOPLE [01:50:01] THERE. I THINK THAT'S WHY JOE WAS PROBABLY THERE WITH APARTMENTS IN THE BEGINNING. SO YOU, YOU HAVE TO WEIGH WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IN BALANCING. ALL RIGHT. SO AGE RESTRICTED PLUS APARTMENTS DOESN'T GENERATE SCHOOL AGE KIDS. IT GENERATES ENOUGH PEOPLE TO GENERATE MORE COMMERCIAL TO GENERATE REVENUE. SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO ACTIVATE A CORRIDOR MM-HMM . BUT YOU'RE NOT LOOKING TO BURDEN YOUR SCHOOLS. TO ME, THAT'S HOW YOU ACTIVATE A CORRIDOR. WHEN YOU SAY ROOFTOPS, YOU MEAN PEOPLE? YEAH, YEAH PEOPLE. WELL, I MEAN THERE ARE A LOT OF SURROUNDING DEVELOPMENTS GOING ON THAT'LL BRING PEOPLE TO THE RETAIL. I SUSPECT THERE SHOULD ASPECT, BUT THEN THAT'S WHERE THE MARKET ANALYSIS COMES IN. YOU'LL SEE THAT CERTAIN MARKET, THEY ONLY WANT THE PEOPLE THAT CAN LITERALLY WALK WITHIN THE HALF MILE OR THE QUARTER MILE, NOT THE FULL MILE CHANGES. BUT SEE, I AGREE WITH, I AGREE WITH JERRY. IT CHANGES IN THE RETAIL CHANGES. I THINK WE'VE ALWAYS LOOKED AT THIS AREA, UH, IN INTERNALLY HERE. WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR CORRIDOR AND TRYING TO KEEP IT AS MUCH, UH, COMMERCIAL AS POSSIBLE. BUT YOU DRIVE A MILE DOWN THE ROAD ON RIDGE AND GO INTO LIMERICK TOWNSHIP, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF RETAIL THERE THAT'S CLOSED. WELL, WELL THAT'S, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHY. 'CAUSE, 'CAUSE LIMERICK ISN'T ALLOWING ENOUGH RESIDENTIAL. SO EVERY TIME I GO IN WITH A PROPERTY OWNER IN LIMERICK AND I SAY, LOOK, YOU'VE GOT THIS MIXED USE THAT REQUIRES 400,000 SQUARE FEET OF COMMERCIAL BEFORE I CAN GET TO RESIDENTIAL. THEY SAY, WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT. AND I SAID, WELL, HAVE YOU LOOKED AT RIDGE PIKE THERE? HAVE YOU LOOKED AT? AND THEY DON'T WANT TO CHANGE IT. SO YOU THIS DAY AND AGE, YOU CAN'T GET THE COMMERCIAL WITHOUT GETTING A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL BECAUSE THEIR PERSONAL SERVICES, THEIR RESTAURANTS, I, THEY ALL THAT. RIGHT. BUY THAT. I WOULD BUY THAT. SO, SO IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE, THE, THE BACKEND OF IMPACTS TO SCHOOL DISTRICTS OR RAISING TAXES, THEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT HOW DO I GET THE RESIDENTIAL THAT DOESN'T IMPACT THAT. SO BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME, WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY, AND I'M NOT SAYING I DISAGREE, I KIND OF AGREE WITH YOU, BUT WHAT YOU'RE BASICALLY SAYING THAT THIS, THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY ALONG RIDGE PIKE WOULD NOT BE ATTRACTIVE FOR, UH, RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL USE OWNER. THAT'S CORRECT. AND IT HASN'T BEEN IF IT, YEAH, I AGREE. AND IT HASN'T BEEN SO, SO IF WE WOULD, IF WE WOULD, YOU KNOW, NOT LIKE THIS PLAN OR SAY, HEY, WE DON'T WANT ANY MORE HOUSES IN THE TOWNSHIP AND WE'VE GOT ENOUGH. YOU KNOW WHAT, THERE'S ALREADY 2000 ON THE BOOKS, I THINK UNITS. RIGHT. SOMETHING LIKE THAT, JEFF, ON, ON OUR BOOKS RIGHT NOW. UM, A GUY LIKE YOU, AND I KNOW YOU'RE IN THE HOME BUILDING BUSINESS, BUT A GUY LIKE YOU, YOU'RE JUST GONNA SAY, WE'RE NOT INTERESTED IN THIS PROPERTY IF WE CAN'T BUILD HOUSES. I REPRESENT LOTS OF COMMERCIAL DEVELOPERS. THAT'S FAIR. THEY WOULDN'T HONEST WITH YOU. YEAH, THEY WOULD, THEY WOULDN'T LOOK AT IT. BUT I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. LIKE, YOU WANT IT, I YOU BEAT ON IT. YEAH. NO, NO. AND AND THERE'S A WAY TO MAKE IT WORK. YOU JUST HAVE TO FIND THAT BALANCE. BALANCE, RIGHT. AND THEN LOOK AT ALL THESE IMPACTS. YEAH. AND AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY. SO THE ANOS WHO OWN ALL THREE PROPERTIES, BUT THE ONE ON THE LEFT, THEY'VE ACTUALLY OWNED FOR 38 YEARS, THEY'VE MARKETED FOR A GOOD PORTION OF THAT. AND THERE'S BEEN TIMES WHERE THE HOME DEPOTS AND THE LOWE'S AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF HAVE LOOKED AT IT. HOSPITAL LOOKED AT IT. YEAH. ALL THAT STUFF THAT YOU SAW. SO, BUT THEY'VE BEEN MARKETED IT FOR THE, THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME THEY HAVE IT. AND IT JUST, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AS, AS A KIND OF AN ALL RETAIL PLAY. AND THAT'S WHY LIKE, WE TOOK SIX MONTHS AND REALLY KIND OF DID THE DEEP DIVE AND AS GREG SAID, LIKE THE ROOFTOPS DRIVE THE RESIDENTIAL AND, AND ALL THE OTHER STUFF. BUT WE TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THE TWO BIGGEST THINGS WITH ANY NEIGHBORHOOD IS ALWAYS TRAFFIC AND THEN SCHOOL AGE KIDS. AND IT'S ALL THE STUFF THAT WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, SOLVE FOR AS WE GO THROUGH IT. AND THEN AFTER THE END OF IT, IT'S JUST A, A NUMBERS GAME. AND YOU KNOW, LIKE JERRY HAD ASKED FOR, LIKE WE COULD DEFINITELY LOOK AND MAYBE DO A LITTLE BIT MORE RETAIL, ESPECIALLY UP AGAINST THE LIDLE AND MAYBE FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS WE CAN DO IT AND CAN, YOU KNOW, MAKE THE PLAN WORK. BUT THE, THE THOUGHT TODAY WAS JUST TO BE ABLE TO GET THIS OUT IN FRONT OF YOU AND GET A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT. DON'T GET ME WRONG. YEAH. IT'S A NICE PLATE. IT'S, IT'S SWEET, IT'S NICE AND CONCISE AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD PICTURE IT. DON'T GET ME WRONG. I'M JUST, I'M JUST, I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT IT. HOW ABOUT, HOW ABOUT ALL AGE RESTRICTED? IS THAT A POSSIBILITY? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? SO THAT, THAT, THAT SATISFIES YOUR SCHOOL, RIGHT? YEAH. AND TRAFFIC TO SOME DEGREE? WELL, YEAH, I GUESS MAYBE. YEAH. I WOULD SAY IF YOU COULD DO TWO USES AND, AND I'D HAVE TO KIND OF THE MARKET STUDY AND, AND DIG INTO IT A LITTLE BIT MORE. BUT TWO USES YOU MIGHT BE OKAY. UH, 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW WE'RE SHOWINGS. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? DIFFERENT TYPES OF RESIDENTIAL? SAY THAT AGAIN? TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF RESIDENTIAL. CORRECT. 'CAUSE YOUR ABSORPTION IS A PROBLEM. YEAH. SO MAYBE YOU DO ACTIVE ADULT AND THEN MAYBE YOU DO THE, THE TWINS OR ACTIVE ADULT. WHAT'S THAT? ACTIVE ADULT ANOTHER LESS ACTIVE ADULT THAT'S DELIVERY ONLY. YEAH. OR YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WORKING WITH, WITH JEFF TO KIND OF COME UP WITH, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT PRODUCTS IN DIFFERENT WAYS. WE FELT WHEN WE WERE KIND OF BACK AND FORTH WITH THIS ONE, WE FELT PRETTY GOOD WITH KIND OF HOW THIS LAID OUT AND SEGMENT AND EVERYTHING YOU READ NOW IS PEOPLE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS CAN'T AFFORD A HOUSE ALERT. I ALSO HEARD, AND AGAIN, I DON'T AL YOU PROBABLY FOLLOW THIS LOT CLOSER THAN ME FOR SURE, IS THAT THERE'S A, THERE'S A SHORTAGE OF OVER [01:55:01] 55 HOUSING AVAILABLE. IS THAT TRUE? OR IS THAT, HAVE YOU HEARD THAT? OR IS THAT, I WILL TELL YOU, EVERY 55 AND OVER NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WE WE'VE DONE HAS BEEN A HUGE SUCCESS. IT'S JUST KIND OF THAT IF YOU LOOK AT, AND I THINK IN THE STATE OF PA IT'S LIKE 55% OR 56% OF THE PEOPLE OF THE POPULATION IS OVER 50. IT'S SOMETHING. SO THAT WHOLE AGING POPULATION AND YOU KNOW, BUT WHAT, IT'S FUNNY, TWO YEARS AGO, EVERYTHING WAS AGE RESTRICT, AGE RESTRICT AGE, AGE RESTRICTED IN THE LAST PROBABLY 18 MONTHS WITH THE HOUSING SHORTAGE AND PEOPLE WANTING, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I, I KNOW I HAVE THREE KIDS AND ONE GETTING READY TO GRADUATE COLLEGE AND I DON'T KNOW HOW SHE'D AFFORD ANYTHING ANYWHERE CLOSE AROUND HERE. AND SO THEN THAT'S WHY WE BROUGHT IN THE, THE STACKED TOWNS BECAUSE IT DOES GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO GET SOMEBODY IN. SO AN ENTRY LEVEL. YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. I UNDERSTAND THAT. THAT MAKES, THAT MAKES SENSE. IT ALL MAKES SENSE. I I'M NOT POOING YOUR PLAN. YEAH. YOU DID A GREAT JOB ON THE PLAN. BUT IT'S, IT'S GOOD DISCUSSION TO HAVE BACK AND FORTH. 'CAUSE ULTIMATELY WE WANNA HAVE SOMETHING THAT OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, WORKS FOR THE TOWNSHIP NEIGHBORS COULD SUPPORT. WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT THE LAND SELLER. IT WORKS. YOU KNOW, SO IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT WORKS FOR EVERYBODY. YEP. YEP. GOOD START. YEAH, IT IS. SO WHAT DO WE DO HERE, JEFF? NOTHING INFORMATION. THEY'VE GOTTEN SOME FEEDBACK FROM YOU. UM, SURE. CAN I MAKE A POINT? I'M SORRY. SURE, SURE. SO, UM, THE, I DON'T NEED TO DO MY OTHER FOUR SLIDES, BUT YOU BROUGHT UP A COUPLE REALLY GOOD POINTS. AND THE REASON THAT THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE, THE REASON THE FIRST DEVELOPMENT IS, UM, HERE WE GO. THIS IS WHAT WE DEALT WITH SEVEN, EIGHT YEARS AGO. RIGHT? THIS WASN'T IN IMPLIED, SO THIS DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH SCALE TO HELP THE CORRIDOR. AND YOU ASKED MR. WRIGHT THE FIRST THING WHEN YOU CAME UP, IT SAYS, WELL WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO WITH THIS? WELL, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA TALK ABOUT. WE, WE, AND I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN ON YOUR AGENDA FOR, FOR QUITE SOME TIME TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION. I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS FOR EIGHT YEARS. RIGHT? SO WE, WE ALL WE'RE SAYING IS TO LOOK AT, IS LIKE, UH, AN OVERLAY TO PROVIDE, TO ALLOW FOR ADDITIONAL TYPES OF DEVELOPMENT DOWN HERE, INCLUDING RESIDENTIAL. RIGHT NOW THIS IS ALL NONCONFORMING. WELL IT IS, IS IT NONCONFORMING JEFF? UM, WELL THESE ARE ALL RENTALS. THESE ARE ALL RENTALS. SO NOT THE MOST, UM, IT'S NOT THE BEST EXAMPLE OF NC ZONE. YEAH, IT'S NOT. BUT IF WE WOULD, IF YOU WOULD PUT AN OVERLAY AND, AND IF YOU DO AN OVERLAY, YOU CAN LITERALLY DICTATE WHAT HAPPENS. EVERYTHING DOWN TO THE COLORS. 'CAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU TALKED ABOUT COLORS, YOU COULD DICTATE EVERYTHING. YOU COULD SAY NO SMOKE SHOPS. BUT IF YOU ALLOW RESIDENTIAL WITH CERTAIN DENSITIES FOR CERTAIN SIZES, THIS WOULD TAKE 10 OR 15 YEARS TO CURE. THIS IS NOT GONNA CURE TOMORROW. NO. AND AND THIS IS NOT FOX LANE'S ISSUE. THEY, I MEAN THEY CARE ABOUT THIS, BUT I UNDERSTAND THIS IS A CATALYST TO FIX THIS. SO IF, IF, IF, LET THEM MOVE FORWARD WHILE, AND I'M HAPPY TO HELP YOU. I, YOU KNOW, I'M HERE ALL THE TIME. I, I'D HAPPY TO HELP YOU GUYS COME IN AND, AND BRAINSTORM TO ALLOW THESE THESE PROPERTIES TO MERGE SOMEBODY TO TAKE OUT TWO OR THREE PROPERTIES WITH INTERNAL DRIVEWAYS AND, AND DO SOMETHING WITH IT. WHETHER IT'S RESIDENTIAL SMALL DEVELOPMENTS, 10, 15 HOMES OR WHATEVER IT IS OVER, WE WON'T BE HERE. I MEAN WE WON'T BE AT THIS BOARD 10 OR 15 YEARS TO CURE. IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. WELL, LET ME LET AND THAT'S JUST WEIGH IN. THAT'S JUST A THOUGHT. THAT'S JUST A THOUGHT. MY TURN. YEAH, THAT'S JUST A THOUGHT. THE PLAN IS GOOD. NOT GREAT. THE PLAN'S A GOOD START. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE NUMBER. I THINK THE NUMBER'S TOO HIGH. I I DO LIKE JERRY'S SUGGESTION ABOUT MORE RETAIL. I'M NOT GONNA LET AN OVERLAY GO THROUGH. I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF AN OVERLAY THROUGH HERE. ALAN AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS. WE STAND APART ON THIS ISSUE. IT'S GONNA BE A REZONING WHETHER THIS PARCEL AND CRSC GETS REZONED OR SOMETHING ELSE. SOMEHOW WE'RE GONNA GET THE ZONING TO WORK OUT SO THAT IT'S ACTUAL ZONING BECAUSE AN OVERLAY JUST BECOMES TOO PROBLEMATIC WITH HOW YOU APPLY IT TO INDIVIDUAL PARCELS. EXPLAIN TO ME THAT AN OVERLAY BASICALLY MEANS YOU APPLY FOR THE OVERLAY OR WE PUT THE OVERLAY ON YOU AND YOU CAN EITHER DO THE NC ZONING THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE, WHICH NO ONE'S DOING, OR YOU CAN DO THE OVERLAY ZONING FOR THE OTHER OPTION. THERE'S NO POINT TO HAVE THE NC WE KNOW THE NCS NOT WORKING. SO WE JUST NEED TO WRITE ZONING THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION THAT AL IS TALKING ABOUT WITH THESE INDIVIDUAL SMALL PARCELS. AND MAYBE THAT BECOMES WHAT THE NEW NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL IS FOR THAT AREA AND IT ALLOWS FOR SECOND FLOOR RESIDENTIAL. UM, ONE OF YOUR SLIDES IS WRONG AL YOU, THERE'S NO RESIDENTIAL ALLOWED AT NC. UM, OKAY. THERE, THERE'S ONE PART IN THERE WHERE YOU SAY RESIDENTIAL ON THE SECOND FLOOR, THERE'S, THAT'S IN YORKIE'S MIXED USE, BUT NOT IN, NOT IN NC. UM, AND THEN MAYBE THIS AND THE CRSC, THAT'S THE SHOPPING CENTER ACROSS THE STREET, THE LIDLE SHOPPING CENTER, THAT ALL BECOMES JUST A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT WITH AN OPTION [02:00:01] FOR RESIDENTIAL LIMERICKS ISN'T GREAT. WHAT, WHAT GREG WAS TALKING ABOUT, LIMERICKS IS NOT GREAT, BUT IT'S GOT BONES THAT KIND OF WORK MARKET WISE. IT HAS IT RIGHT. I I GET IT. I GET IT. THEY THEY'RE ASKING YOU FOR TOO MANY OTHER THINGS. THAT'S RIGHT. BUT, BUT I'VE LOOKED AT IT AND IT HAS BONES THAT CAN WORK IN TERMS OF, BECAUSE THE ONE THING WE DON'T WANNA DO HERE FROM A PLANNING COMMISSION AND A TOWNSHIP STANDPOINT IS GIVE AWAY THE HOUSE BY LETTING THEM BUILD THE HOUSES AND THEN THE RETAIL, THEY COME BACK IN FIVE YEARS AGO. WELL WE JUST CAN'T GET PUT ANYBODY TO DO IT. SO, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO EITHER PUT THIS UP FRONT OR PUT SOMETHING ELSE. WE NEED TO HAVE ASSURANCES FROM THE TOWNSHIP STANDPOINT THAT THE MIXED USE PORTION OF THIS STAYS A MIXED USE. AND, AND AGAIN, I GET WHERE GREG IS COMING FROM WITH NO, THAT MAKES YOU NEED TO DO IT. BUT FROM MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION IS IF WE'RE GONNA PURSUE THIS, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT FROM HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT THE MIXED USES WORK AND THAT THEY FIT SEAMLESSLY INTO THIS. NO, I AGREE WITH THAT. THE PLAN LOOKS GREAT AND IT'S A GOOD START. DO I KNOW, DO I THINK THAT RETAIL'S GONNA BE SUCCESSFUL? I GIVE IT A 50 50 SHOT JUST BECAUSE THE WAY RETAIL IS RIGHT NOW. AND IT'S NOT YOU, IT'S NOT YOUR PROPOSAL. IT'S JUST THE MARKET. JUST THE MARKET. SO THEN HOW, HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY WHAT JERRY'S SUGGESTION IS HAVING MORE RETAIL? WELL, SOMETIMES MORE RETAIL CREATES A BETTER DENSITY OF RETAIL. LIKE, BUT MY, MY ARGUMENT TO THAT IS, LIKE I SAY, YOU GO A MILE DOWN A ROAD IN THE LIMERICK AND THEY'VE GOT RETAIL UP THERE WAS ALONG THERE THAT THEY CAN'T GET RID OF. BUT IF WE PUT RETAIL HERE THAT THAT WORKS WITH A LIDLE THAT CREATES SOMEWHAT OF A SMALL TOWN CENTER UP THERE. MAYBE TRADE A LITTLE BIT MORE DENSITY TO GIVE SOME SMALL APARTMENT USES LIKE TWO OR THREE BUILDINGS THAT ARE 20 UNITS EACH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. NOTHING TOWN CENTER, NOTHING HREG. NOTHING TO THAT SCALE. BUT, SO WE TRADE OFF A LITTLE RETAIL TO HAVE A HIGHER DENSITY OF RETAIL TO WHERE IT MAYBE BECOMES A LITTLE BIT MORE LIKE A SMALLER VERSION OF OUR OWN TOWN CENTER WHERE IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE WALKABLE FROM THIS SHOPPING CENTER. IT CONNECTS TO THE LID. OBVIOUSLY WITH LIDLE, ALDI, TARGET AND GIANT UP THERE. YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET ANOTHER GROCERY STORE. TRUST ME, IF YOU COULD GET A TRADER JOE'S IN THERE, THIS WOULD GET APPROVED IN ABOUT 17 MINUTES. RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. SO , I MEAN THAT'S JUST THE WAY THIS PROCESS WORKS. EVERYBODY WANTS A TRADER JOE'S BUT RIGHT. THEY DON'T WANT TO BE HERE. RIGHT. SO WE NEED TO FIND OTHER RETAIL THAT CAN BECOME THE ANCHOR. BECAUSE THAT'S THE KEY WITH ANY RETAIL CENTER IS HAVING SOME SORT OF ANCHOR. YEAH. IN THIS SCALE YOU NEED A SMALLER ANCHOR. LIDLE CAN BECOME THAT. BUT WE HAVE TO PLAY OFF OF THAT AND WE HAVE TO WORK WITHIN THAT ON THAT PORTION OF THE SITE THAT, THAT JERRY SUGGESTED. AND AGAIN, THIS IS IF YOU WANT TO MOVE THIS FORWARD, I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS PERFECT AND I THINK YOU HAVE A EXTREMELY VALID POINT, TOM, I THINK, I THINK WE'RE ALL CLEAR THAT I THINK WE'RE ALL CLEAR. I HEARD JOE SAY SPECIFICALLY, BUT JERRY AND I HAVE SAID THAT WE, IT'S A GREAT PLAN. I MEAN IT'S A NICE START. IT'S A VERY GOOD START AND I THINK WE'RE WILLING TO MOVE IT, KEEP IT GOING. THAT'S KEEP TALKING ABOUT FORWARD. IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN, THEN, THEN, THEN WE'LL DO THAT. WE'LL, YEAH, I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP TALKING. WE'LL HAVE TALKING ABOUT, WE'LL HAVE SOME DISCUSSIONS. I'LL LOOK AT THE ZONING. THAT'S GREAT THAT THEY HAVE AND WE'LL SORT OF WORK THROUGH THAT. I'LL TALK TO JOHN, I'LL TALK TO AL. YOU. I MEAN LIKE THAT SPACE IN THE BACK, BACK THERE WHERE IT GOES BACK TOWARD THE RESIDENTIAL. I MEAN YOU, YOU ARE NOT GONNA, I MEAN THAT'S GREAT. I MEAN THAT TAKES A BIG HEADACHE RIGHT OFF THE TABLE. 'CAUSE YOU CAN JUST IMAGINE ALL THOSE HOUSES, YOU'RE GONNA BE ALL OVER YOU, RIGHT? YEAH. IF, IF YOU START SAYING WE'RE GONNA PUT, YOU KNOW, 20 HOUSES BACK THERE. SO I MEAN THAT'S A GREAT START. UH, YOU KNOW, I MEAN YOU GOT SOME GREAT IDEAS HERE. I JUST THINK WE NEED TO KEEP WORKING ON IT. YEAH, NO, AND THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT TONIGHT WAS JUST TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION BACK AND FORTH AND ULTIMATELY IF WE COULD START TALKING TO JEFF AND HEY, KIND OF MOVING THIS FORWARD AND, AND REALLY KIND OF TWEAKING AND JUST KIND OF MAKING IT BETTER AND BETTER. THAT'S, THAT WAS THE ULTIMATE GOAL. GOOD START. GOOD START. YEAH. I THINK WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, LET'S KEEP TALKING. OKAY. AND I THINK THIS PROCESS IS A GREAT PROCESS RATHER THAN JUST TRYING TO THROW SOMETHING UP AGAINST A BOARD AND SEE WHAT WELL YOU'D BE SURPRISED HOW MANY PEOPLE DO THAT. WE TO JOE DOESN'T I TRY TO TELL MY CLIENTS NOT TO. SOME OF 'EM DO. UM, AND JEFF OBVIOUSLY IS A GREAT RESOURCE, SO OH YEAH. HE'S OUR RESOURCE. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, WE COULDN'T DO THIS WITHOUT JEFF. THAT'S SO I I THINK WE CAN CONTINUE TO DO IT AND MAYBE THE NEXT STEP IS WE START WORKING ON SOME MORE ITERATIONS AND COME BACK TO JEFF WITH IT. I, I THINK THAT'S GREAT. I MEAN, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD GO TO THE BOARD YET. I THINK WE SHOULD REFINE THIS A LITTLE BIT MORE. YEAH. YEAH. I DON'T THINK HE'S READY TO GO AND SAY, HEY, LET'S HAVE THE BOARD LOOK AT IT. BUT I THINK WE'RE, IS THERE, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR? YOU, YOU, BECAUSE IT'S GREAT INPUT. WHAT IS IT? IS THERE SOMETHING ON YOUR MIND PERHAPS WE, WE CAN, YOU'LL TALK WITH JOE. I THINK I, I STATED MY, MY CONCERN IS KIDS. OKAY. MY CONCERN IS THAT, THAT THE, THE, THE, THE UH, THAT SIDE, THE, THE WEST SIDE, WHICH IS UM, YOU KNOW, MORE FAMILY ORIENTED AND UH, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SWITCH THE TWO, CAN, CAN THE AGE RESTRICT IT, BE ON THE, ON THE WEST SIDE AND, AND THE UH, BE ON THE EAST SIDE. I DON'T KNOW. I, I, YOU KNOW, I THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE OF THAT. JERRY OBVIOUSLY SAYS HE'D LIKE TO SEE MORE RETAIL. UH, I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE BARKING AND MORE TRAFFIC COULD IN THAT POCKET . [02:05:01] SO I LIKE THE WAY YOU HAVE THE A THE, UH, H RECEIVER. OH, TUCKED AWAY. YEAH. YEAH. IN THAT SECTION. YEAH. BUT CAN WE SWITCH THOSE HERE AND MAKE THE H RESTRICT IT BIGGER AND GIVE 'EM ENOUGH ROOFTOPS TO MAKE IT WORTHWHILE WITH, I DON'T KNOW. MAYBE THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING, SO YEAH. YEAH. MAYBE SO. RIGHT. UM, SO WE'LL PLAN TO FOLLOW UP WITH JEFF AND, AND KEEP KIND OF THE DISCUSSIONS GOING AND, AND OBVIOUSLY BE BACK IN FRONT OF YOU TOO WITH A REVISED PLAN. GOOD. WE, WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. YEAH, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. START. HAVE A NICE, HAVE A NICE HOLIDAY. THANKS. THANK YOU GUYS. NICE JOB. GOOD START. GOOD JOB. ALRIGHT [DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS] JEFF, SO NOW WHAT YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT MOVING FORWARD. YES. UH, LET ME GET TO THAT SLIDE. OKAY. UM, JULY 15TH. THANKS. THANKS. THANKS JEFF. THANK YOU. UM, JULY 15TH, MONTCLAIR HOUSES, MONTCLAIR TOWNHOUSES AT WHITAKER. UM, THAT PLAN'S READY SHOULD BE READY TO GO TO BE DISCUSSED. UM, MONTCLAIR TOWNHOUSES AT WHITAKER, IT WAS ONE 40 WHITAKER. OKAY. YEAH. NOW THAT WE'RE A PRELIMINARY PLAN, WE HAVE A FANCIER NAME. UM, OKAY. THAT THREW ME OFF 'CAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER MONTCLAIR. WELL THEY CALLED IT MONTCLAIR TOWNHOUSES. I THREW IN THE AT WHITAKER JUST SO EVERYBODY KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. YEAH. NOW IT DID HELP. YOU SAID WHITAKER, RIGHT? ALRIGHT, UM, BURY FARMS MINOR SUBDIVISION. THAT'S A PROPERTY OFF OF HOLLOW ROAD. IT'S SIMILAR TO WHAT WE DID TONIGHT FOR HREG. MM-HMM . UM, THEY, THEY JUST LOOKING TO SEPARATE OFF A PIECE. THERE'S A LITTLE COUPLE QUESTIONS WE HAVE ABOUT IT, BUT THAT SHOULD BE A FAIRLY EASY ONE. AND THEN SPOTLESS CAR WASH IS GOING TO BE ON THAT. 'CAUSE WE HAVEN'T TALKED ENOUGH ABOUT CAR WASHES. SPOT CAR WASH. WHAT WAS THE SECOND ONE YOU MENTIONED? NUMBER 10? NUMBER 10 IS SPOT. I GOT THAT. WHAT WAS THE OTHER ONE AND NUMBER? 17. 17. I DIDN'T EVEN GET OVER. IT'S A WOODBURY FARM. OH, BURY FARM MINOR SUBDIVISION HOLLOW ROAD. YEAH. AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S A SIMILAR SITUATION. WELL HE, HE'S SUBDIVIDING OFF A LOT TO BUILD A HOUSE. RIGHT. UM, AND THEY'LL BE, THEY'RE ALL JULY 15TH. THEY'RE ALL JULY 15TH. I THINK THEY SHOULD BE FAIRLY QUICK. UM, AUGUST 5TH SORT OF HAS TO BE DETERMINED. UM, I'M TECHNICALLY ON VACATION, BUT AS WITH NORMAL FOR AUGUST, I WILL COME BACK IF NEEDED. UM, WELL DO WE HAVE TO DO, COULD WE RIGHT NOW? I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA CANCEL IT RIGHT NOW, BUT IF, IF SOMETHING COMES UP WITH AN APPLICATION WHERE IT'S READY TO GO, I I WOULD BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. I MEAN, I NOT HAPPY, BUT I'D BE COMFORTABLE DOING THAT. WE CAN LEAVE IT OPEN FOR NOW. AND I'M ONLY IN OCEAN CITY, NEW JERSEY, SO IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A SIMPLE DRIVE BACK AND FORTH. UM, BUT YEAH, BUT I, I, YOU KNOW, IF WE, LET'S LEAVE IT OPEN IF WE POSTPONE IT FOR A WEEK. YEAH, YEAH. I I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA BE ABLE TO, TO SORT OF LOOKING WHERE EVERYBODY IS, BUT I THINK JERRY'S OUT OF TOWN. UH, YEAH. THE, UH, THE FOLLOWING WEEK ACTUALLY. OKAY. YEAH. ALRIGHT. SO THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE WEEK AFTER AS WELL. OH, OKAY. SO THE 19TH I WOULDN'T, YEAH. WE'LL, MEETING ON THE FIFTH. CORRECT. I'LL BE AUGUST 5TH. AUGUST 5TH. THE FIFTH AND THE 19TH ARE THERE. FIFTH AND THE 19TH ARE TWO MEETINGS. RIGHT. WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON WITH MR. HEIST TO SEE WHY WE DON'T HAVE TO. I'M GONNA CALL HIM TOMORROW. YEAH, I'VE BEEN HAVING TO CALL, I'M GONNA CALL HIM AND SAY, BOB, ARE YOU JUST FORGETTING OR YEAH, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT. I'M GONNA CALL HIM TOMORROW. UM, BUT GENERALLY NOTHING ELSE IS, IS READY TO GO. UM, YOU KNOW, I'M LOOKING AT THE LONG LIST AND SPARES LANE IS ON HOLD. PARKHOUSE IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAD A MEETING. THEY'RE WORKING THROUGH ENGINEERING ISSUES, SPRING FORWARD WALK. I, YOU KNOW, I THINK THEY'RE STILL WORKING THROUGH THEIR, THEIR ISSUES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT LAST MONTH. UH, PROVIDENCE, SELF STORAGE, THAT MIGHT BE ON. UM, I THINK THEY'RE GETTING CLOSE ON REVIEWS. AGAIN, THAT'S A FINAL PLAN, SO IT HAS TO BE COMPLETELY CLEAN. UM, ALL RIGHT. GOOD. SO STORAGE. ALL RIGHT, THERE WE GO. HAVE THEY, UM, HAVE THEY FOUND ANYBODY THAT'S INTERESTED IN BEING ON THE, I HANDED THE BOARD BEFORE THEIR LAST MEETING, UH, THREE OR FOUR NAMES. I TEND NOT TO BE INVOLVED UNLESS THEY ASKED ME TO TALK TO SOMEBODY ABOUT WHAT THE RESPONSIBILITIES AND WHAT YOU DO BEFORE. UM, BUT I MEAN, THEY HAD PEOPLE INTERESTED. THEY HAD PEOPLE INTERESTED, YES. OH, GOOD. SO GREAT. ANY WOMEN BY CHANCE? NO, NO WOMEN. I WOULD SAY WITHOUT KNOWING THE PEOPLE, I WOULD SAY GENERALLY THE DEMOGRAPHIC IS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY. OLD WHITE GUYS. . THANK YOU. YOU SAID IT NOT ME. SO OVER 60. OH MY GOD. WELL, JERRY, I DON'T MEAN TO, I DON'T MEAN TO NO, YOU'RE STILL WORKING. YOU'VE GOT A YOUNG FAMILY. I'M STILL WORKING. I SHOULD, JOE AND I ARE, SHOULDN'T BE. NO, JOE AND I ARE IN THE FOURTH QUARTER, BUDDY, YOU KNOW, FOURTH, FOURTH QUARTER. SO I, I'LL KEEP YOU UP TO DATE ON, ON WHAT'S HAPPENING, UM, WITH THE, THE AUGUST 5TH MEETING IN SEES SORT OF WHEREVER HE IS AT. YEAH. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THIS WEEK HAS BEEN SUPER QUIET IN TERMS OF JUST BECAUSE OF THE HOLIDAY VACATION, BECAUSE OF THE HOLIDAYS. NOBODY'S REALLY IN TOWN. I LITERALLY HAVE RECEIVED I THINK NINE EMAILS OVER THE LAST TWO DAYS, AND FOUR OF THEM HAVE BEEN ADVERTISEMENTS. SO, I [02:10:01] MEAN, FOR ME, NINE EMAILS IS BY EIGHT O'CLOCK MOST MORNINGS. YEAH. SO , RIGHT. OKAY. UM, THERE WAS SOMETHING ELSE I WANTED TO ASK YOU NOW. I, IT SLIPPED MY MIND. OH, WELL IT DOESN'T MATTER. I'LL FIGURE IT OUT OR WHATEVER. UM, ALL RIGHT. SO I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. UH, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE ADJOURN, UH, TODAY'S MEETING. I'LL SECOND THAT. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. MOVE. IMMEDIATE JUROR. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.