* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. JEFF, [00:00:01] SO RIPPED. [CALL TO ORDER / MOTION TO APPROVE APRIL 15, 2026 AGENDA] OKAY, I'M GONNA CALL A ORDER, THE, UH, APRIL 15TH MEETING OF THE, UH, UPPER PROVINCE TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION. UM, AND WE WILL START TONIGHT BY LOOKING AT THE, UM, UM, AGENDA AND APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING, UH, WHICH IS, UH, LOOKS LIKE THERE'S JUST ONE APPLICANT AND ONE NEW APPLICANT. SO I'LL TAKE A MOTION IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS OR PROBLEMS, BUT WE'LL CLOSE. IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THOSE. AGENDA, APPROVE. PROCEED. I'LL MAKE THE MOTION IF MADE A MOTION. HAVE SECOND, SECOND. KEVIN MADE A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. OKAY, SO WE APPROVE THE AGENDA AND THE NEXT THING WOULD BE, UH, NON AGENDA ITEMS, [PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AGENDA ITEMS] UH, PUBLIC COMMENT ON NON AGENDA ITEMS, ANYTHING THAT IS NOT ON THIS, THIS EVENING'S, UH, AGENDA. IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, UM, THIS IS THE TIME TO BRING IT FORTH, NOT HEARING ANY OH, OH, I DO. OKAY. YEAH, YOU DO HAVE A COMMENT, MR. HERE. UH, BUILT OUT BLACKROCK ROAD. UM, ALRIGHT. THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE REMOVAL, MOVING OF THE FUEL TANK AND THE EXPANSION OF, OR MOVING THE, UH, SHED FROM OVER HERE TO OVER ACROSS THIS ROAD. THIS IS THE, UH, TOWNSHIP, UH, PUBLIC WORKS BUILDING. ALRIGHT. NOW, WHEN THEY BUILT THE, THE, UH, FIREHOUSE OVER HERE, I HAD NOTHING BUT DIRT, DIRT, DIRT, DIRT AND MORTAR. DIRT. AND WE HAD, ACTUALLY, I HAD EPA ON SPEED DIAL. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE YOU AWARE THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD PROBLEMS WITH DIRT. WELL, SINCE IT'S, THAT'S BEEN BUILT, IT'S NOT BAD, BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE ONGOING, UH, CONSTRUCTION OVER THERE. SO I JUST, AND NOT ONLY THAT, I, WHEN THE NEW BUILDINGS BUILT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA BE, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE YOU AWARE THAT THE LIGHTING PROBLEM, IT'S, IT WAS A PROBLEM. IT'S KIND OF IS A PROBLEM WITH IT, THE FIRE COMPANY, BUT NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT. BUT AS FOR IF, IF AND WHEN THAT NEW TOWNSHIP BUILDING IS BUILT, UH, I, I'D LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING DONE DONE WITH THE LIGHTING THAT'S LIKE A 90 DEGREE CUTOFF, SO. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S IT. FREE FOR OUR ATTENTION. THANK YOU. YEP. ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM PUBLIC ON NON AGENDA ITEMS? WE'RE GONNA [GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS] MOVE TO, UH, THE GENERAL DISCUSSION ON ITEM. JEFF. WE GOT A NEW PLAN THAT'S SUBMITTED. WE GOT APPROVED TWO NEW PLANS, GENERAL PLANS, ONE 40 WHITAKER, WHICH YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH IT. WE'VE RECEIVED THEIR PRELIMINARY PLAN. IT'S THE NEXT STAGE OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. UM, IT, IT IS FOR 48 TOWN HOMES AND WE RECEIVE THE PLANS. ONCE YOU ACCEPT IT, WE WILL START REVIEWING IT AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE. AND I'LL PROBABLY BE ON AN AGENDA. I WOULD THINK JUNE IS PROBABLY A SAFE BET, SO I DON'T, THERE'S DON'T REALLY ANSWER QUESTIONS AT THIS STAGE, BUT IF YOU WANT TO OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC AND SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY, OH, YOU WANNA DO ONE 10 Y YEAH, YOU CAN. DON'T MATTER TO ME. OKAY. ANY, ANY PUBLIC COMMENT ON WHITAKER, UH, PRELIMINARY PLAN, WHICH IS COMING. OKAY. COME ON. HELP IDENTIFY YOURSELF. TELL US WHERE YOU'RE FROM. SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER. , PLEASE DON'T SHARE YOUR SOCIAL NO, NO, I'M NOT AN IDIOT. UM, HI, I'M KATHLEEN REED. UM, MY HUSBAND AND I OWN 2 39 GRACE STREET AND, UM, 2 33 NORWOOD PARCEL. AND MY HUSBAND'S NOT AVAILABLE TO BE HERE TONIGHT, SO I HAVE A QUESTION FROM HIM. , UM, WE, WE CAN'T ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS BECAUSE THE APPLICANT IS NOT HERE, BUT, BUT ANY COMMENTS? YOU ARE OKAY. UM, COMMENT THAT HE HAD, HE LOOKED AT THE, THE PLAN THAT WAS SHARED AND HIS COMMENT IS, SO IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS, UH, NEW ONSITE STORMWATER RETENTION, BUT AS AN FYI, THERE DOESN'T LOOK TO BE ANY STORMWATER INLETS ON WHITAKER SOUTH OF NORWOOD TO HANDLE RUNOFF FROM THE WEST SIDE OF THE SITE. AND THE CONCERN IS THAT WATER DOES FLOW DOWN WHITAKER AND ACTUALLY DIRECTLY INTO OUR GARAGE. UM, BUT IT DOES, IT FLOWS DOWN WHITAKER, UH, PRETTY READILY. UM, AND THAT DOES AND WILL BE WORSE, YOU KNOW, WITH, WITH THIS BUILT THERE. SO WE JUST WANTED TO MAKE A NOTE THAT, UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT STORMWATER RETENTION ON SITE, UM, THERE SHOULD PROBABLY BE A LOOK AT, UM, THE STORMWATER RUNOFF ON, ON WHITAKER. OKAY, [00:05:01] GOOD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE COMMENT. ANYBODY ELSE ON, UH, ON WHITAKER? OKAY, THEN WE'LL MOVE TO THE SECOND ONE, WHICH IS, UH, A SMALL SUBDIVISION SIX LOT, RIGHT, JEFF? SIX LOT SUBDIVISION ON TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD. THIS IS NORTH OF LINFIELD TRAP AND RITTENHOUSE ROAD. UM, WHERE THAT, WHERE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE LIGHT IS AT THAT RITTENHOUSE ROAD, TOP OF THE HILL AS YOU'RE GOING BACK DOWN THE HILL. UM, PAST THE Y AND, UM, THIS IS SORT OF GOING BACK UP TOWARDS TARGET. YOU CAN SORT OF SEE THE, THE ON THE PLAN ON THE UPPER PORTION OF THE TOWNSHIP ROADSIDE WHERE THE CUT IN FOR TARGET IS, WHERE THE DECELERATION LANE FOR TARGET IS. SO THAT GIVES YOU, IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO BETWEEN THE, THE LAST HOUSE AND THE POWER LINES. THERE WAS AN OLD FARMHOUSE THERE, THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS OF TAKING IT DOWN IT'S WAY OVER. IT WAS COMPLETELY, UTTERLY OVERGROWN. SO SAFETY, THEY'VE BEEN TAKING THAT DOWN. THIS IS STARTING OUT. IT'S A TENTATIVE SKETCH. UH, WE'RE JUST GONNA START THE PROCESS REVIEWING THIS. ANY PUBLIC COMMENT ON THAT DIVI UH, UH, SUBDIVISION? AGAIN, WE CAN'T ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, BUT WE'LL CERTAINLY HEAR YOUR COMMENTS. IF NOT HEARING ANY, THEN IT IS UP TO US TO, UH, ACCEPT THOSE YEP. AND MOVE 'EM FORWARD. SO I'LL TAKE A MOTION FROM ANYBODY ON THE, IF ANYBODY HAS ANY OTHER COALITIONS DESCRIBE, TAKE A MOTION TO, UH, TO, UH, ACCEPT THESE TWO NEW PLANS AND MOVE THEM TO THE NEXT STEP. DO WE HAVE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT YES, ZACH? YES. OH, OKAY. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE, UH, ACCEPT THE PLANS FOR ONE 40 WHITAKER PRELIMINARY AND 1 13 48 TOWNSHIP LINE SIX LOT SUBDIVISION. ALRIGHT, JUDGE, MAY THE, UH, UH, UH, MOTION TO ACCEPT THESE TWO NEW, UH, PLANS FOR, UH, STARTING THE PROCESS. AND I'LL TAKE A SECOND. I'LL SECOND THAT. ALRIGHT, BOB, SECOND IT. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'VE MOVED THAT FORWARD AND YOU SAY PROBABLY JUNE OR I WOULD THINK, I CAN'T SPEAK TO JEN'S WORKLOAD, BUT I WOULD THINK JUNE IS PROBABLY A SAFE BE, UM, IF WE HAVE TO PUSH IT TO JULY, WE WE COULD. SURE. I, I, I'M OKAY WITH THAT. YEAH. I MEAN, MORE THAN LIKELY THE, THE FIRST MEETING, JULY PROBABLY FALLS ON THE FIRST OR THE SECOND ANYWAY, SO WE'RE NOT LIKELY TO HAVE THAT MEETING. RIGHT. JOE WILL BE HERE, BUT THE REST OF US WILL BE ON THE BEACH. YES. I WAS GONNA SAY, JEFF, CAN WE ON THAT? NOT YET, BUT WE'LL, OKAY, THEN LET'S [APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON APRIL 15, 2026] MOVE ON TO OUR APPLICANT TO BE HEARD THIS EVENING, WHICH IS THE, UM, HASSEN ROAD. AND WE'VE HEARD, WE'VE SEEN THEM BEFORE, WE'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE. UH, THEY'VE COME BACK THROUGH THE SUPERVISORS WITH SOME RECOMMENDATIONS, AND I GUESS WE'RE HERE TO SEE WHAT THAT IS. PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELVES AGAIN, JUST FOR THE RECORD. YES, KEVIN PALMER FROM THE APPLICANT. I'M HERE WITH ANTHONY HEADLAND, THE ENGINEER. AND, UH, THE BACKGROUND, WHICH YOU'RE AWARE OF. UM, WE'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE WITH THE PLAN. IT'S BEEN MASSAGED. UM, AND THE LAST SUPERVISOR'S MEETING, THERE WAS SOME HEALTHY BACK AND FORTH GIVE AND TAKE GOOD SUGGESTIONS, WHICH, UH, ANTHONY HAS INCORPORATED INTO HIS REVISED PLAN. UM, AND, UH, AS, AS WELL AS NEIGHBOR INPUT, BY THE WAY. SO WE FEEL THAT THIS IS NEIGHBOR INPUT FROM THE DEVELOPMENT THAT, THAT WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THAT WATER AND ALL THAT. YEAH, EXACTLY. YEAH. THE, THE, THE ADJOINING NEIGHBORS. UM, SO, UM, THE UPSHOT OF, OF ALL THAT HAPPENED WAS, UM, THE LAST SUPERVISOR MEETING, UM, THE SUPERVISORS HAD INPUT ON RELOCATING SOME BOTS, WHICH ANTHONY HAS DONE, UM, AND ALSO ACCOMMODATED THE, THE NEIGHBORS ON WATER ISSUES AND BUFFERING. SO I'LL LET HIM EXPLAIN THE CHANGES FROM THE LAST APPROVED PLAN TO THIS ONE. THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING. SO IN SUMMARY, UH, AFTER HAVING RECEIVED YOUR RECOMMENDATION, UH, AND GOING TO THE SUPERVISORS, UM, THEY HAD ASKED IF WE COULD TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THAT SHARED DRIVEWAY DOWN THE SLOPE TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PAGE. THAT SHARED DRIVEWAY HAD, UH, SERVED THREE AND THEN EVENTUALLY ONLY SERVED TWO. AT WHICH POINT WE TOOK THAT TO THE SUPERVISORS. WE TOOK ANOTHER LOOK AT IT AT THE DIRECTION OF THE SUPERVISORS TO ELIMINATE THAT SHARED DRIVEWAY IN THE LEFT PANEL [00:10:01] AND IN THE RIGHT PANEL SLIDE THOSE LOTS UP. UH, LOT SIX IS THAT LANE LOT. NO ONE REALLY LIKED THAT LANE LOT. UM, SO WE GOT RID OF THAT TOO AND BROUGHT THAT ALONG THE MAIN, UH, P LOOP DRIVE. UM, IN DOING SO, WE WERE ABLE TO, UH, HAVE MUCH LESS IMPACT, UM, ON THE RESOURCES OF THE LAND. UM, I, UH, WOULD LIKE TO JUST STEP THROUGH, UM, HOW THIS FLIGHT REARRANGEMENT, UM, LITERALLY REDUCED SO MANY IMPACTS. UM, BOTH PLANS HAVE 14 LOTS. THAT HAS NOT CHANGED. UM, HOWEVER, THIS ALTERNATE LAYOUT, UH, ALLOWS FOR FOUR TIMES THE REQUIRED OPEN SPACE. AT LAST BLUSH THAT YOU SAW THIS PLAN, UH, THE OPEN SPACE WAS TWO AND A HALF TIMES THE MINIMUM. UH, NOW WE'RE AT FOUR TIMES THE MINIMUM, UH, JUST OVER 11 ACRES, UH, OF THE 28 ACRES. UM, THE ULTIMATE LAYOUT DISTURBS MORE THAN A THIRD OF AN ACRE, LESS OF THE STEEP SLOPE AREA. UM, HAVING WORKED OUT THAT DRIVEWAY WITH THE FIRE MARSHAL VERSUS NOW GETTING RID OF THE DRIVEWAY ENTIRELY, UM, IT HAS A MUCH LESS IMPACT ON THE SLOPES. UM, WE ALSO HAVE A MUCH LESS, UH, NEED FOR IMPERVIOUS COVER. OUR IMPERVIOUS COVER WAS REDUCED BY MORE THAN A HALF ACRE SIX TENTHS OF AN ACRE. UM, AND THEN, UH, THE, UH, WOODLAND DISTURBANCE, WE ARE ABLE NOW NOT TO DISTURB ANY OF THE WOODS, UH, TO THE, UM, RIGHT SIDE OF THESE PANELS, UH, IN WHAT'S NOW THE OPEN SPACE. NOR WILL THERE BE ANY DISTURBED FOR LOTS OF SIX, UH, EIGHT AND NINE. THE ONLY DISTURBANCE OF THE WOODLANDS, WHICH HAS NEVER CHANGED ACTUALLY, IS AT THE FRONT OF THE SITE WHERE THE ROAD COMES IN. AND WE HAVE OUR TWO HOUSES THERE, UH, WHERE THE EXISTING HOUSE USED TO BE. UM, THAT WOODLANDS, UM, DID NOT GET REDUCED. BUT EVERYTHING IN THIS ALTERNATE LAYOUT FOR THE OPEN SPACE FOR LOT SIX, EIGHT, AND NINE, UM, HAS, UH, PRODUCED AN EXTRA 1.4 ACRES OF, OF WOODLANDS THAT WILL NOT BE DISTURBED. UM, IN ADDITION ON THESE LOTS, UM, YOU CAN SEE THE HOUSE IS SITUATED ON THE LEADING EDGE OF THE SLOPE AND WILL DISTURB SOME SLOPE. UM, THERE IS, UM, UH, DEED RESTRICTION OF DISTURBING ANY FURTHER SLOPE IN THEIR BACKYARDS. SO WE'VE GIVEN THEM ENOUGH ROOM TO BUILD THE HOUSE DRIVEWAY, UH, WITH A STANDARD FRONT YARD AS EVERYONE ELSE IN DEVELOPMENT WILL HAVE THAT FRONT YARD. UM, AND THEN, UH, WE'VE GIVEN 'EM ENOUGH AMPLE AREA FOR DECKS, PATIOS, UH, EVEN A SWIMMING POOL IF SOMEONE WERE TO, UH, UH, RE REQUEST A POOL. UM, POOLS, UH, DO REQUIRE, UH, REQUIRE VARIANCES. SO WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY POOLS. UM, BUT WE ARE PROPOSING A SLOPE EASEMENT IN THE REAR YARDS OF ALL OF THOSE BEYOND OF WHAT, UM, THE DISTURBED AREA. WE BUILD A HOUSE AND THAT SLOPE EASEMENT WILL PROTECT ANY FURTHER DISTURBANCE OF THE SLOPE OR THE WOODLANDS. THE WOODLANDS ARE A PACK ON THOSE SLOPES. SO WE TOOK A HARD LOOK AT WHERE THE SLOPES EXIST ON THE SITE, AND WE'RE ABLE TO, UM, MANEUVER THESE HOMES SO AS NOT TO DISTURB AS MUCH, UH, WOODLAND SLOPES, UM, AND COURTEOUS COVER. UM, IT REALLY WORKED OUT WELL. UM, UM, CAN I STOP YOU RIGHT THERE? SURE. WHERE WOULD YOU, SINCE YOU MENTIONED POOL, WHERE WOULD YOU PUT THE POOL IN EACH OF THOSE THREE HOUSES? IF SOMEONE WERE, UH, THERE'S ENOUGH, UH, AREA BEHIND THE HOUSE, RIGHT BEHIND EACH OF THOSE THREE HOMES, UH, WITH A SMALL, UM, RETAINING WALL OF THREE TO FOUR FEET, UH, MAYBE A BENCH WALL THAT YOU COULD SIT ON. UH, YOU COULD FLATTEN OUT ENOUGH AREA FOR A SWIMMING POOL THERE. UM, JUST IN THE BACK THERE, JUST OFF THE DECK. [00:15:02] OKAY. SO IF YOU DON'T PUT THE POOL IN THERE AND YOU WALK OUT YOUR BACK DOOR IN THE MORNING AND THERE'S SOME DEW ON THE GROUND, YOU'RE PROBABLY GONNA FALL ON YOUR BUTT? NO, WE HAVE ABOUT 25 FEET OF FLAT AREA OUTSIDE THE WALKOUT BASEMENT UNDERNEATH THE DECK. OKAY. YEAH. SO THE WALKOUT BASEMENT, YOU SEE A SMALL AREA. YEAH, NO, WE DIDN'T WANNA HAVE A STEEP, WE WANTED SOME YARD. THESE ARE, UM, PRETTY HIGH PRICE HOMES THAT THEY'LL HAVE A VERY USABLE REAR YARD. UM, SO, UM, TO IMPLEMENT THE, UH, PLAN, WHETHER IT'S THE SHARED DRIVEWAY THAT'S CURRENTLY, UM, SOMETHING YOU'VE SEEN OR WHETHER WE IMPLEMENT THE ALTERNATIVE LAYOUT, SOMETHING THAT THE SUPERVISORS REALLY LIKED, UM, WE WOULD STILL NEED, THERE IS STILL A NEED TO GO FOR A SPECIAL, UH, EXCEPTION, UM, FOR ANYTHING IN THE STEEP, SO BE IT THE DRIVEWAY OR BE IT THE HOME. UM, IN CONSIDERATION OF THAT SPECIAL EXCEPTION FROM THE ZONING BOARD, UH, THEY WILL, UM, LOOK AT, OR THEY WILL HAVE ME LOOK AT WHICH I'VE DONE SOME PRELIMINARY HOMEWORK ON HOW THE SOILS IN THESE STEEP SLOPES, UH, COULD SUPPORT THE HOME. UH, SO THE FIRST THING IS THAT THAT SOIL IS, UM, ONE OF THE MOST STABLE SOILS IN ALL OF THE, UH, COUNTY. IT'S A LANSDALE LOAN SOIL FOUNDED ON BEDROCK. UM, SO IT WOULD, UH, UH, SUPPORT THE BEARING CAPACITY, IF YOU WILL. UH, SECONDLY, THE LANSDALE HOME IS A VERY WELL DRAINED SOIL. IT DOES NOT HAVE A HIGH CLAY CONTENT. SO THE, UM, RAIN WATER DRAINS THROUGH IT. BUILDERS LOVE WELL DRAINED SOILS AS MANY HOMEOWNERS DO, BECAUSE THAT MEANS THE WATER GROUND WATER ISN'T COMING IN YOUR BASEMENT. UM, IT IS, UH, DRAINING THROUGH THE SOIL, UH, AS IT DOES NATURALLY. UM, THE OTHER THING WOULD BE THE, THE, THAT THE, UM, LOW CLAY CONTENT, UM, IS CONDUCIVE TO NO SHRINKING AND NO SWELLING. SO THE SOIL DOESN'T, UH, SWELL UP WHEN IT'S WET AND THEN BRITTLE DRY AND CRACK. UH, THIS IS NOT GOOD FOR FOUNDING A HOME ON OR ANY OTHER STRUCTURE AS THE, UM, CLAY SOIL, UH, COULD CAUSE DAMAGES TO BASEMENT WALLS, FOUNDATIONS, FOOTERS. UH, WE DON'T WANT, UH, SITUATION WHERE OUR WALLS ARE CRACKING AND WATER'S COMING IN THE BASEMENT. UM, AND THEN LASTLY, THE BUILDERS ACTUALLY NICKNAMED THE SOIL AS THE GOLD STANDARD TO BUILD HOMES ON. SO, UM, WE ARE ON THAT LEADING EDGE OF THE, THE STEEP SLOPE. UM, BUT, UM, WE BELIEVE THAT, UM, UH, THIS IS A, A MUCH SUPERIOR PLAN AND LAYOUT THAN THE ORIGINAL, UH, TO GO AS. AND ALTHOUGH IT TOOK SOME TIME TO GO TO THE DIFFERENT, UM, PROCEDURES AND, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION AND SUPERVISORS, UM, IT'S MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION THAT THIS, UH, IS SUPERIOR IN EVERY MEASURE, UH, OF THE OUTLINE CODE REQUIREMENTS. UM, ACTUALLY WOKE UP SO FAR AS I THINK READING THE FIRE MARSHALS LETTER, THAT WHEN HE SAW THE SHEER DRIVEWAY GONE, HE WAS LIKE, UM, HE RESPONDED IN HIS LETTER THAT, UM, THIS IS A NO CONCERN. UH, ONCE HE SAW THAT, THAT, UM, DRIVEWAY'S GONE. SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT WAS THE ONLY ISSUE THAT HE HAD. UH, THERE'S NO OTHER, OTHER FIRE AL ISSUES. THERE ARE THINGS THAT HE WANTS CLARIFIED. I'M SHOWING PLANS WITH THIS, UM, CHUCK TURNING RADIUS ON IT, BUT I HAVE SO MANY OTHER THINGS ON THAT PLAN, UH, THAT, UM, HE WANTS THAT TO BE A STANDALONE PLAN. SO IT STANDS OUT MUCH CLEARER THAN, UH, SEEING THAT THE TRUCK, UM, AND THE, UH, CONTOUR LINES, THE, UH, THE CROSSWALK, THE, UM, PUSH LIST INFORMATION, WHICH WE WILL HAVE DETAILED ON OTHER SHEETS, [00:20:01] BUT WE'LL HAVE A NICE CLEAN SHEET FOR, UM, UH, HIS TRUCK TURNING. UM, HE ALSO HAD A FEW CONCERNS THAT, UH, THE FIRE HYDRANTS, UH, MAY HAVE CHANGED. I CAN ATTEST BEFORE YOU, WE DID NOT MOVE ANY OF THE HYDRANTS OTHER THAN THE HYDRANTS GOING DOWN THAT HILL TO THE SHARED DRIVEWAY. ONCE THE SHARED DRIVEWAYS GONE, THE HOMES ARE GONE. THERE'S NO ANTS DOWN THERE ANYMORE. I, I THINK I CAN SPEAK FOR THE FIRE MARSHAL WHEN I SAY THAT MOST OF HIS COMMENTS ARE TECHNICAL IN NATURE. IT CAN BE ADDRESSED AT THE PRELIMINARY PLAN STAGE. YES. YES. YEAH, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT, REMEMBER, THIS IS JUST TENDER, SO THERE'S A LOT OF ENGINEERING WORK BE COMING BACK IN FRONT OF YOU TWICE. YES. UM, JUST CURIOUS, JUST CURIOUS. EXCUSE ME. UM, WHAT, WHAT WAS IT? IT, IT BOTHERS ME A LITTLE BIT THAT WE RECOMMENDED THIS TO THE SUPERVISORS, THE PRELIMINARY THIS, AND, UH, THEY PUSHED BACK AND WE PUSHED BACK. I, I, I DON'T THINK WE PUT, OBVIOUSLY WE DIDN'T PUSH BACK HARD ENOUGH BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN WE FIND ROOM TO PUT THESE THREE HOUSES IN THE PLAN. I'M JUST, JUST FIND THAT A LITTLE BIT, UH, WELL, IF I CAN CONCERNING YEAH. THAT, THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU WERE ABLE, AND NOW YOU'RE SAYING IT'S EVEN BETTER. SO WHY DID YOU JUST DO THE EVEN BETTER? BUT FIRST? GOOD QUESTION. VERY GOOD QUESTION. AND SO WHEN WE GO THROUGH THE CODE REQUIREMENTS, UH, THERE ARE ENUMERATED THINGS, ALLOWING THE STEEP SLOPE. AND, UH, SO I WENT WITH THE, UH, ROAD TO GET THE HOUSE DOWN TO THE BOTTOM. THERE ARE NO STEEP SLOPES WHEN IN FACT THE HOMES CAN, I DIDN'T SAY HOMES. THE PRIMARY USES OF THE RESIDENTIAL, UH, ZONING CAN ALSO BE LOCATED IF YOU GO THROUGH THIS CRITERIA THAT I JUST STEPPED YOU THROUGH. SO HAVING GONE THROUGH THAT, UH, PRIORITY, UM, IT, IT IS DOWN ON THE LIST RATHER THAN FIRST ON THE LIST. SO THAT'S WHERE I STARTED FIRST AT THE LIST. I, I'M CONFUSED, BUT, UH, WHAT BOTHERS ME IS YOU SAY, NOW THIS IS BETTER. AND IF IT WAS BETTER, THEN WHY WASN'T IT DONE THE FIRST TIME? NOW YOU'RE SAYING, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU JUST SAID. I WAS JUST FOLLOWING THE PRIORITIES OF THE CODE. OKAY. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, I DON'T DO THIS EVERY DAY. I JUST, I JUST, YOU KNOW, MY FEELING IS THAT WE APPROVED IT OR, OR RECOMMENDED IT TO THE SUPERVISOR BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID WAS THE WAY IT HAD TO BE BECAUSE OF THE SLOPES. AND NOW YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE FIXED THAT. AND, UH, THAT, THAT'S JUST A LITTLE DISCONCERTING TO ME. I THINK YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT YOUR, YOUR, YOU KNOW, YOUR CLEANUP HITTER UP FIRST TIME AND, AND NOT, UH, NOT SUBJECTED US TO THE ONE THAT YOU SAY IS NOT, NOT AS GOOD AND, UH, AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE TO COME BACK AND START OVER AGAIN. SO, UH, I'M JUST A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. BUT, SO WE'RE GONNA BE A LITTLE TOUGHER. I'M GONNA TELL YOU ON THIS, WE'RE GONNA BE A LITTLE TOUGHER BECAUSE I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE IT WHEN WE SAY IT'S ALL RIGHT. IT GOES UP AND THEY PUSH BACK AND YOU GUYS IMMEDIATELY CHANGE IT. I DON'T THINK THAT'S, THAT'S GOOD FOR US. WE DID NOT IMMEDIATELY CHANGE IT. WE WORKED WITH THEM OVER A FEW MONTHS, UM, THAT LONG, BUT OKAY, IT DOESN'T, THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT MY POINT. MY POINT IS THAT I, WE SHOULD HAVE GOT YOUR BEST SHOT THE FIRST TIME. IF I COULD ADDRESS YOUR CONCERN. UM, THE PROCESS WITH DISCORD AND THE SUPERVISORS HAS BEEN SOMEWHAT COLLABORATIVE. AND SO THE ORIGINAL PLAN THAT WAS SUBMITTED, I WOULD CALL IT TECHNICALLY COMPLIANT. NOW, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY EVER LIKED THAT ROAD. NO, WE DIDN'T LIKE IT. UM, YOU DIDN'T LIKE IT. THEY DIDN'T LIKE IT. BUT IN PRIOR MEETINGS, I'M SORRY, IN PRIOR MEETINGS WITH, WITH THE SUPERVISORS AND WITH STAFF BEFORE THAT, UM, IT, IT MIGRATED THAT WAY. AND, UM, YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, YOU'RE DEAD. RIGHT. UM, WE WOULD'VE PREFERRED TO COME IN WITH THAT PLAN FROM DAY ONE, BUT [00:25:01] YOU, YOU GET DRIFTED THAT WAY BASED ON INPUTS YOU GET FROM DIFFERENT FOLKS. AND SO WE ENDED UP WITH A BIT OF A WHITE ELEPHANT THAT TECHNICALLY COMPLIED, BUT WHAT IF YOU STEP BACK FROM THE SCREEN, YOU WOULD SAY, YEAH, TECHNICAL TECHNICALLY, YEAH, BUT IN REAL LIFE IT DOESN'T WORK. WE, WE GOT SHOVED BACK TO REAL LIFE. AND SO I WOULD SET UP TO DEFEND ANTHONY, YOU KNOW, HE WOULD'VE PREFERRED THAT FROM DAY ONE. BUT IN THE GIVE AND TAKE PROCESS, YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU GET PUSHED THIS WAY, PUSHED THAT WAY, AND, BUT ULTIMATELY COME OUT WITH A BETTER PLAN. YEAH. I, I THINK IT'S, IT, IT'S IN THE END, THE END RESULT. IS THAT A LOT OF INPUT FROM YOU GUYS, THE SUPERVISORS STAFF RESULT IN THAT? DID IT TAKE TOO LONG? YEP. YEAH, FOR ALL OF US. UM, WE COULD HAVE AVOIDED A COUPLE OF MEETINGS AND A LOT OF COSTS AND ALL THAT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK WE GOT TO THE RIGHT SPOT. UM, AND IT'S NOT ANTHONY'S FAULT. HE'S TRYING TO DO THE BEST HE CAN. UM, IF I CAN ALSO JUST JUMP IN, I, I, I THINK THAT WHAT IS GOING ON IS, IF YOU LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, IT SAYS THAT YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO PUT STRUCTURES ON STEEP SLOPES UNLESS NO ALTERNATIVE LOCATION IS FEASIBLE. AND I THINK THAT THE EXERCISE THAT THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH IS ESSENTIALLY DEMONSTRATING AND, AND BASICALLY WITH GUIDANCE FROM THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND THE FIRE MARSHAL, THAT THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE LOCATION THAT'S FEASIBLE GIVEN THE CONCERNS ABOUT THE LENGTHY DRIVEWAY. GIVE THE CONCERNS ABOUT THE FIRE MARSHAL OF THE FIRE MARSHAL AND GETTING FIRE APPARATUS DOWN THERE. I THINK THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH THAT EXERCISE IN ORDER TO, TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY MEET THAT REQUIREMENT FOR THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION APPROVAL. SO I THINK THAT THE DIRECTION THEY GOT FROM THE, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WAS ESSENTIALLY, LOOK, WE AGREED THAT IT'S NOT FEASIBLE TO PUT THEM DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL AND PUT ALL THAT INFRASTRUCTURE IN AND MAKE THOSE HOMEOWNERS DEAL WITH THAT SHARED DRIVEWAY AND HAVE THE POOR ACCESS FOR FIRE EQUIPMENT. SO I THINK THAT AS THEY'RE SAYING, IT IS A, IT HAS BEEN A COLLABORATIVE PROCESS, BUT ESSENTIALLY THEY HAD TO START IN THE PLACE WHERE THEY HAD TO ESSENTIALLY SHOW, THEY KIND OF HAD TO BACK INTO IT TO SHOW THAT IT, IT ISN'T REALLY FEASIBLE TO PUT IT DOWN THERE BASED ON THESE OTHER CONSTRAINTS THAT HAVE COME UP. AND BASED ON THE PREFERENCES OF THE BOARD SUPERVISORS, AND I WILL ADD THAT YOUR CONDITION DID ASK THEM TO LOOK AT THE LOCATION OF THE HOUSES. YOU MAY HAVE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL, BUT YOUR CONDITION SAID, LOOK AT THE LOCATION OF THESE HOUSES, WHICH I THINK EMBOLDENED THE SUPERVISORS TO SORT OF DIG THEIR HEELS IN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT. SO WHILE I GET WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, TOM, I REALLY THINK THAT THE WAY YOU HANDLED IT WITH THAT RECOMMENDATION, THE CONDITIONS YOU PUT ON IT WAS THE RIGHT PATH FORWARD. WELL, I'M NOT GONNA SIT HERE AND DEBATE THIS, YOU KNOW, I COULD DEBATE IT. I'M NOT, I JUST WANT YOU GUYS TO KNOW THAT I THOUGHT THAT, I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS DISCONCERTING. I, I'LL USE THAT WORD THE WAY THIS IS COME AROUND. AND, UH, AND I HOPE IT WORKS. I MEAN, I'M NOT, I'M NOT AGAINST IT. IT'S JUST THAT, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD HAVE GOT YOUR BEST SHOT AT FIRST. THAT'S ALL. AND I'M DONE. ALL RIGHT. I'M DONE. RIGHT. ARE WE GOOD? CAN I ASK? YES. IT ALSO LOOKS LIKE YOU ADDED, UM, THE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU CALL IT, VEGETATIVE BARRIER IN BI. YES. YEAH. WHICH WAS A REQUEST FROM I THINK SOME FOLKS YES, WE TALKED ABOUT IT, AUDIENCE TALKED ABOUT IT. THAT, THAT THERE WAS BUFFERING ABOUT HALF OF THE PROPERTY. CORRECT. NOW EXTENDED ALL THE WAY DOWN TO HASSETT ROAD, SO RIGHT. SO RIGHT. RATHER THAN JUST LOTS THREE AND FOUR, IT'S NOW 1, 2, 3, AND FOUR. CORRECT. THE WHOLE LENGTH. CORRECT. UM, AND THEN WE ACTUALLY ADDED THE SAME TYPE OF BUFFER, UH, BETWEEN THE BACK TO BACK, UH, S UH, SEVEN AND, UH, 10. YEAH. SEVEN 10. SO A ANSWER THIS QUESTION FOR ME. THESE THREE LOTS THAT YOU MOVED UP TO THE, UP TO THE MAIN ROAD, THE ACK, I COME OUT MY BACK BOX POINT, I COME OUT MY BACK DOOR, I'M ON A DECK OR A PATIO, WHATEVER IT IS. AND WHAT AM I LOOKING AT? WHAT DO I SEE? 20 FEET THAT AIN'T LOCKED. YOU'RE PROBABLY, WHAT, 15 FROM ME RIGHT NOW. SO WHAT, WHAT'S 20 FEET? WHAT'S IT, WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE AFTER THAT? SURE. IT'S, IT'S ABOUT A 15, 14, 15% SLOPE. IT'S CURRENTLY ALL MEADOW RIGHT NOW. UH, IT'S BEEN AGRICULTURALLY CROPPED FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND ABOUT A HUNDRED AND MAYBE [00:30:01] 75 TO A HUNDRED FEET BEFORE THE ACTUAL WOODED FOREST LANDS. UM, WHICH YOU CAN SEE WITH THAT, UM, ARCED CURVE LINE, UH, TO THE REAR OF THE LOTS. UM, SO ALL THOSE WOODS WOULD STAY, THE MEADOW WOULD BE, UH, GRASS, LAWN, OR CONTINUED MEADOW. UM, AND BEYOND THOSE WOODS IS MORE WOODS, UH, FOR THE OPEN SPACE. AND IT GIVES US, UH, AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SOME TRAILS, UH, THAT WOULD, UM, UH, GO DOWN THAT SLOPE AT A 5%. AND THEN ONCE YOU GET TO THE BOTTOM, THERE'D BE SLOPES THAT ARE MUCH MORE EASILY WALKABLE. WHAT ARE THE, WHAT ARE THIS, UH, RECTANGULAR BOXES BEHIND THOSE UNDERGROUND, UH, STORMWATER SEA PITCH PITS? YOUR GROUP FRAME WATER LEADERS WOULD GO INTO THOSE. IS 14 THE, THE NUMBER THAT MAKES SENSE FOR YOU GUYS? 14 NUMBER FINANCIALLY? I MEAN, IS THAT WHAT YOU NEED 14 TO SELL, TO MAKE THIS ALL WORK? I DON'T THINK IT'S A, I DON'T THINK IT'S A FUNCTION OF FINANCES. IT'S A FUNCTION OF WHAT THE PROPERTY YIELDS. WELL, WHAT I, WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M LEADING TO BY ASKING THAT QUESTION. 14, WHAT ABOUT 12? WHAT ABOUT SEPARATING 'EM OUT AND MAKE THEM A LITTLE BIT MOVING? THESE ONES THAT ARE HIGH SMOKE, MOVE THEM OUT A LITTLE BIT CLOSER SO THAT YOU ONLY HAVE 12, BUT YOU HAVE PEOPLE CLOSER TO FLAT LAND. WELL, LET ME ADDRESS THAT BY SAYING THIS. UM, GO, GO AHEAD. I'VE SPOKEN TO A FEW BUILDERS ABOUT THIS AND THE NUMBER, UM, THE CODE ALSO ALLOWS A, UH, SITUATION WHERE YOU CAN GO DOWN A LOT SIZE. UH, SO THE CONSERVATION, UH, UM, I THINK IT'S LOT AVERAGING, I FORGET, BUT, UM, THE BUILDERS THAT I SPOKE TO DON'T WANT A SMALLER LOT. IT DOESN'T, UH, UH, GIVE THEM ANY ROOM TO, UH, GET THE RETURN ON THE HOME FOR THAT. SO, UM, ONE SPECIFIC BUILDER WAS, UH, THINKING THAT 14 WORKS FOR HIM, WE'RE KIND OF REALLY 13 BECAUSE HE, HE DOESN'T BUILD THE HOME LIKE YOU SEE ON LOT 14. UH, SO HE'S DOWN TO THOSE 13. AND, UM, HE SAID IF, IF THIS WERE REDUCED IN SIZE, UH, NUMBER ONE, YOU DON'T GET MORE UNITS, UM, YOU DON'T GET LESS UNITS. UM, THE LAND SUPPORTS 14. AND, UM, IF WE PUT THEM ON THE SMALLER LOT AND AVERAGE THE LOT SIZE, UM, HE DEALS THAT HE'LL MISS HIS WHOLE TARGET MARKET FOR THIS SIZE HOME. WELL, THE LAND ONLY WORKS IF YOU GET A VARIANCE. NO VARIANCE. WELL, YOU'RE ASKING FOR, FOR, UH, NO, THAT'S A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. HONORANCE, EXCUSE MY WIFE, SPECIAL EXCEPTION. THE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS IS PERMITTED SO LONG AS THEY MEET THE CONDITIONS THAT ARE IN THE BOARD. UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU'RE NOT ASKING VERY DIFFERENT LEGAL STANDARD. I THINK WHAT HE, I THINK WHAT HE'S SAYING IS, IS THAT YOU CAN REDUCE THE NUMBER OF HOMES, WHICH JUST MEANS THERE'S A LITTLE BIT, WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE PROPERTY LAND PER HOME. BUT IN THE END, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S THE MARKET, YOU KNOW, DOESN'T REALLY NECESSARILY SAY I NEED ANOTHER 50 FEET ON EACH SIDE OF MY HOUSE. UH, I'M NOT TRYING TO JUSTIFY THIS. I'M JUST SAYING THAT I GUESS THERE IS ECONOMICS INVOLVED. OH, SURE. AND THAT'S WHY I ASKED THAT QUESTION. THAT'S HOW I STARTED. WHY IS THIS THE NUMBER THAT MAKE SENSE? IF I, IF I COULD, I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS MR. WRIGHT'S QUESTIONS. UM, ESPECIALLY THE QUESTION ABOUT WHY DIDN'T WE START WITH THIS? THAT'S AN IMPORTANT QUESTION. THERE'S AN ANSWER TO THAT. WHEN MY CLIENTS FIRST CAME INTO THE TOWNSHIP, THEY MET WITH STAFF. THEY, THEY LOOKED AT OPTIONS. AND THAT PLAN THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT IS VERY CLOSE TO WHAT THEY CAME IN WITH. AND THEY WERE NOT RECEIVED WELL WITH THAT. AND SO THE QUESTION BECAME FOR THE ENGINEER, DESIGN A COMPLIANT PLAN, A PLAN THAT COMPLIES WITH THE ORDINANCE THAT RESULTED IN THE PLAN WITH THE [00:35:01] DRIVEWAY. OKAY. OKAY. AND WITH THE THREE LOTS UP TOP SERVED BY THAT DRIVEWAY, NOW, YOU KNOW, COMMON SENSE THAT IT DIDN'T LOOK RIGHT. OKAY? BUT IT COMPLIED, TECHNICALLY COMPLIED. SO WE BROUGHT THAT IN. YOU RECOMMENDED IT. NOW YOUR REACTION IS WE LOOKED LIKE FOOLS BECAUSE WE RECOMMENDED THAT AND NOW WE'RE BACK TO THIS. WELL, YOU'RE SAYING THAT I, NO, BUT THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE SENSE I GET THE WORD FOOL, BUT THAT'S OKAY. WELL, MAYBE THAT'S NOT FAIR. BUT, BUT YOU ARE NOT HAPPY BECAUSE YOU RECOMMENDED IT. AND NOW WE'RE BACK WITH THIS. WE DIDN'T COME BACK WITH THIS. WE DIDN'T PULL THAT OUT OF THE AIR. OKAY. IT WAS A PROCESS, AND THE PROCESS INVOLVED A FEW STEPS. STEP ONE WAS THE SUPERVISOR LOOKED AT THE ORIGINAL PLAN WITH THE DRIVEWAY AND THE THREE LOTS AND SAID, CAN YOU MOVE ONE LOT DOWN TO THE P LOOP? OKAY. THAT'S WHAT THEY ASKED US TO DO. WE DID THAT, WE ENGINEERED IT, MOVED THE LOT DOWN TO THE P LOOP, WENT BACK TO THE SUPERVISORS AND WHAT DID THEY SAY? AND, AND YOU LOOKED AT THAT AND YOU SAID YOU LIKED IT. WE TOOK THAT BACK TO THE SUPERVISORS. THAT'S WHAT THEY ASKED US TO DO. AND THEN WHEN WE TOOK IT BACK, THEY THEN SAID, WHY DO YOU NEED THE DRIVEWAY? SO WE WENT BACK, ANTHONY WENT BACK AND RE-ENGINEERED IT TO ELIMINATE THE DRIVER. THAT'S THE PRODUCT OF THAT. THIS DIDN'T JUST HAPPEN BECAUSE WE'RE NOT TRYING TO BE FUNNY. WE'VE BEEN BACK HERE 3, 4, 5 TIMES AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET IT RIGHT WITH THE INPUT WE GET FROM STAFF, FROM THE ENGINEER, FROM YOU GUYS, FROM THE SUPERVISORS. SERIOUSLY. I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN, BUT WE'RE TRYING, WELL, BASED ON THE INPUT WE GET FROM YOU AND FROM THEM, AND I APPRECIATE THAT. AND I, AND, AND YOU KNOW, SO, SO DON'T, DON'T THINK THAT WE, YOU KNOW, TRY TO PUT ONE OVER ON YOU. WE'RE TRYING TO COMPLY. IF, IF IF THE SUPERVISORS HAD NOT PUSHED BACK, YOU WOULD'VE BUILT THAT FIRST ONE. THE FIRST ONE COMPLIED WITH THE ORDINANCE. WE'RE TRYING TO, WE'RE TRYING TO COMPLY. REMEMBER, WE'RE TRYING TO COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE. WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE PEOPLE HAPPY, KEEP YOU HAPPY, AND HAVE EVERYBODY SAY WE LIKE IT. SO WE KEEP COMING BACK. WE'RE NOT DOING IT TO BE FUNNY AND YOU ARE NOT DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO BE FUNNY. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, FOR A GIVE AND TAKE, PUSH AND SHOVE, WE, WE'VE GOT TO SOMETHING THAT, THAT REALLY, FRANKLY IS PRETTY DAMN GOOD. THAT'S ALL WE'RE SAYING. AND SO, SO IF DON'T FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE GAVE YOU OUR THIRD RATE PLAN WHEN WE COULD HAVE DONE THIS ONE FIRST. THIS IS THE PRODUCT OF A LOT OF PUSHING AND SHOVING AND TRYING TO GET IT RIGHT. THAT'S ALL. ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD? QUESTIONS? I STILL HAVE A COMMENT. SOMEWHAT OF A STEEP SCOPE. WELL, THE ONLY COMMENT I'LL MAKE IS, IS THAT THERE ARE QUITE A NUMBER OF ISSUES THAT, UH, JEN HAS RAISED, WHICH I'M, I'M SURE YOU'RE GOING TO BE ADDRESSING FROM TENTATIVE INTO PRELIMINARY. YES. SO I ASSUME THERE ARE NO MAJOR ISSUES THAT SHE'S IDENTIFIED THAT YOU DON'T THINK YOU CAN COMPLY WITH. NO. THANK YOU, JEN, FOR THAT LETTER. UM, APPRECIATE YOUR TURNAROUND ON IT. UH, EVERYTHING IN THAT LETTER IS A WILL COMPLY AND THE FIRE MARSHALS LETTER AS WELL. JEN. BRIAN, YOU GUYS WANT TO COMMENT ON OR COMMENT? NO. IS THERE SOME KIND OF A, A HEARING OR SOMETHING ON THE STEEP SLIPS ITSELF THAT'S STILL PENDING? THEY HAVE NOT FILED THAT, UH, SPECIAL EXCEPTION REQUEST FROM THE ZONING HEARING BOARD AT THIS TIME. THEY HAVE NOT. THEY HAVE NOT, THEY DO NOT NEED TO BY TECHNICALITY UNTIL THEY WANT TO GO AHEAD AND BILL SO THEY COULD GO THROUGH FINAL AND THEN FILE IT. AND IF THAT HOLDS 'EM UP, THAT HOLDS 'EM UP. BUT THEY CAN'T, BUT THEY CAN'T GET FINAL APPROVAL UNTIL THEY GET THAT EXTENSION. YEAH, YOU CAN'T GET, YOU CAN'T GET FINAL APPROVAL UNTIL YOU GET ALL APPROVALS FROM THE TOWNSHIP. SO ALL OUTSIDE AGENCY APPROVALS, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GET BEFORE FINAL, BUT FINAL. YOU HAVE TO HAVE EVERYTHING LINED UP WITH THE TOWNSHIP. ALL THE APPROVALS OF THE TOWNSHIP HAS RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT, HAVE TO BE OBTAINED BEFORE YOU, BEFORE YOU GRANT FINAL. BUT YOUR RECOMMENDATION, WHICH I THINK THE BOARD ALSO ECHOED, WAS THAT THEY START THE ZONING HEARING BOARD PROCESS [00:40:01] BEFORE OR AT THE SAME TIME AS PRELIMINARY PLAN. SAY THAT AGAIN? I'M SORRY. THAT THEY START THE ZONING HEARING BOARD PROCESS, FILE THE APPLICATION, GET THE HEARING SCHEDULED, ALL OF THAT AT THE SAME TIME THAT THEY DO PRELIMINARY PLAN. THAT WAS YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO BOARD SUPERVISORS. AND WHILE I DON'T THINK THAT NECESSARILY MADE THE ACTUAL RESOLUTION, IT WAS RECOMMENDED BY THEM AT THE TIME. WHEN WILL THIS GO FOR THE SUPERVISOR TO GET TO? IT WOULD BE ON THE APRIL 27TH MEETING. IT'S NEXT WEEK. OH, A WEEK FOR MONDAY. YES. THEY MOVED IT BACK A WEEK. SO YES. . ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS? WELL, WE JUST SIGNED THE BOARD FIRST. YOU GUYS. NOTHING. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL TAKE THE PUBLIC NOW AND WANTS TO MAKE COMMENTS. ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WANTS TO COME UP AND MAKE ANY COMMENTS, JUST IDENTIFY YOURSELF. PLEASE DON'T OVER RUSH UP. MUST NOT BE MUCH OF AN INTEREST. JUST IDENTIFY YOURSELF. YEAH, I'M AL SHARPIER, 18 WILSON WAY. UM, THANKS FOR INVITING UP ME UP. UM, THERE'S A FEW COMMENTS HERE. UM, AND, AND YOU KNOW, I'M GLAD THAT ARE TRYING TO WORK THROUGH A GOOD PLAN. ONE OF MY FIRST, UM, ITEMS HERE, ARE YOU ABLE TO ZOOM IN, I THINK JEFF, TO THE, THE LOT THREE WHERE YOU KIND OF HAVE, UM, THE CURRENT PLAN, I GUESS THE, THE, THE, THE HOUSE THERE ONE, SO 1, 2, 3, THE THIRD ONE KIND OF WHERE THE, UH, IT KIND OF STARTS THAT ANGLE. PART OF THE HOUSE IS OUTSIDE THE BUILDING ENVELOPE. UM, I FEEL LIKE IT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED TO PROVE THE PLAN. IF WE ALREADY HAVE HOUSES OUTSIDE THE BUILDING, ENVELOPES AND DECKS OUTSIDE THE BUILDING ENVELOPES, I WOULD BREAK THAT TO BE ADDRESSED TO HAVE THE HOUSES ACTUALLY ALL IN THE, IN THE BUILDING. YOU POINT OUT THE ONE YOU WERE OVER. YEAH. IT'S TOUGH TO SEE IN THE PROJECTOR. YEAH, IT IS TOUGH TO SEE IT. IS THIS RIGHT HERE? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE THE HAND. SEE THE HAND. OH, NOW I SEE IT. YEAH, RIGHT THERE. NOW I, I WILL SAY THAT THERE IS SOME ALLOWANCE FOR HAVING, I'M ASSUMING THAT'S THE DECK. THERE IS SOME ALLOWANCE FOR HAVING DECKS INTO SIDE AND REAR YARDS. A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THE REAR YARD, A CERTAIN DISTANCE, I THINK IT'S 12 FEET OR NOT MORE THAN 50% OF THE, OF THE YARD DEPTH. UM, I WOULD STILL, I AGREE WITH AL, I WOULD MUCH RATHER SEE THAT BUILDING ADJUSTED SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT ISSUE RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE BECAUSE YOU PUT A DECK ON THERE AUTOMATICALLY, SOMEONE'S GONNA TRY TO ADD ONTO IT. IT JUST TENDS TO BE WHAT HAPPENS. SO, UM, LET'S SEE. NOT SOMETHING THAT HAS TO CHANGE FOR THIS NECESSARILY, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED FOR PRELIMINARY PLAN. IT MEANS IT'S JUST AN ODD-SHAPED LOT TO TRY TO PUT A HOUSE IN INSTANCE. SO I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU ORIENT IT AND STILL PUT A LARGE HOUSE THERE AND THE DECK AND A SWIMMING POOL . SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT THE NEXT POINT IS. YOU KNOW, HALF THESE HOUSES WOULD EXPECT TO HAVE SWIMMING POOLS. WE HAVE, WE HAVE THESE UNDERGROUND RETENTION AREAS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO, NOBODY POLICING THAT, RIGHT? SO MAKING SURE THAT SOME OF THESE AREAS AREN'T DISTURBED WHEN THEY PUT THESE POOLS AND DECKS ON. THAT'S CONCERN VERSUS HAVING A RETENTION, RETENTION POND. WELL, NOT, NOT THE COUNTRY'S. YEAH. BUT THOSE WILL HAVE AGREEMENTS, OPERATION, MAINTENANCE AGREEMENTS PLACED ON 'EM. THEY WILL BE MARKED ON THE MAP. AND WHEN THEY COME IN WITH A, WITH A SWIMMING POOL PLAN, MUCH LIKE A FENCE PLAN OR ANYTHING ELSE, WE DO VERIFY THAT THERE'S NO STORMWATER CONTROLS, FENCE, STORMWATER EASEMENTS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT ON THOSE SITES. RIGHT? SO, WELL, LIKE I SAID, THEY BUILD A POOL THEMSELVES, BUT GREENED, IF THEY'RE, THEY'RE FOLLOWING A TOWNSHIP, WELL, THEY HAVE TO COME IN FOR A PERMANENT, RIGHT? SO IF THEY DON'T COME IN PERMIT WHOLE SORT OF SET OF ISSUES. UM, BUT GENERALLY WE WILL BE MO WE MO WE MONITOR THOSE THINGS FROM THE TOWNSHIP'S PERSPECTIVE. GOTCHA. DO, AND THIS IS HAVING THESE UNDERGROUND, I MEAN, I'VE DONE SOME RESEARCH, BUT IS THIS SOMETHING THAT THE TOWNSHIP HAS DONE A LOT OF WITH THESE UNDERGROUND PLACEMENTS OF RETENTION AREAS? ? YEAH. UNDERGROUND DRAINAGE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S UNUSUAL. UM, THE FACT THAT THEY'RE ON INDIVIDUAL LOTS HERE IS NOT THE NORM, BUT IT'S NOT AGAINST ANY CODE OR REQUIREMENT THAT THE STATE HAS IN THE PERMITTING AND THE OPERATION OF MAINTENANCE. THEY'LL ADDRESS, ADDRESS THOSE FOR EACH LOT. THE SOILS ARE VERY IMPORTANT TOO. YOU KNOW, IT'S GOTTA BE GOOD. THAT'LL IMPACT REPLACEMENT OF THEM. SO THEY MAY NOT BE WHERE THE RECTANGLES ARE NOW, ONCE THEY DO THE SOIL TESTING, THEY'LL HAVE TO PUT THEM IN BEST AREA FOR, FROM OUR MANAGEMENT. SO MAY IMPACT PEOPLE WANTING TO BRING HOLES THEN. BUT ANYWAY, THE, UM, WITH THE SOIL. THAT'S A GOOD SEGUE. I MEAN, ONCE IN A WHILE MY BALL, MY BOYS WILL HIT BALLS INTO THE YARD AND IT, IT IS, I MEAN, I'M, I'M CURIOUS TO SEE WHY THIS IS THE BEST . BECAUSE SOIL, I, [00:45:01] IT IS PRETTY SWAMPY EVERY TIME YOU WALK BACK THERE, AT LEAST FROM MY, UH, YOU KNOW, EXPERIENCE WITH THE SOIL BACK THERE ON THAT HILL. UM, I KNOW WE, WE MOVED THE HOUSES ALL ONTO THE SLOPE NOW, RIGHT? SO NOW YOU'RE, YOU'RE YOUR PERMEABLE AREA ON THIS LAND, ON THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING PUSHING. NOW WE HAVE MORE, WE HAVE LESS PERMEABLE SOIL AS A WHOLE, RIGHT? SO I MEAN, THAT'S A COMMON SENSE THAT YOU MOVE HOUSES FROM ONE AREA. NOW ALL OF THEM ARE ON THIS SLOPE POINTING TOWARDS OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. YOU JUST GOTTA, YOU HAVE TO BE MORE AWARE OF THAT. THAT'S WHAT'S OCCURRING HERE. UM, SO WE MADE THINGS SLIGHTLY WORSE, UH, IN TERMS OF, OF WATER DRAINAGE AND HAVING TO DEAL WITH IT. UM, LET'S SEE, ANYTHING ELSE? WAS THAT, UM, YEAH, I THINK THAT THAT COVERS MOST OF MY, MY CONCERNS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO ASSURE THE PLANNING COMMISSION THAT WE WILL NOT BE CHANGING THE WATERSHED LINES. SO THERE'S A RIDGE RIGHT THROUGH, UH, THE CENTER OF THAT CUL-DE-SAC. NONE OF THE HOUSES THAT WE MOVED UP TOWARDS ROAD A LOT SIX, EIGHT, AND NINE WILL LEAD TO DRAINAGE TO THE NEIGHBOR'S HOME. IT'S A DIFFERENT WATERSHED. COMPLETELY. GOOD EVENING, EVERYBODY. MY NAME IS DAN JARRET. I LIVE AT DOWN BELOW SUMMIT DRIVE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL. UM, MY, I'M HAPPY WITH WHAT I SEE. I'M HAPPY THE HOUSES ARE OFF THE HILL, WHICH IS GOOD. UM, THE SOIL, I, I COULDN'T TELL YOU ONE THING ABOUT THE SOIL, BUT ON SUMMIT DRIVE DOWN BELOW AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL, I KNOW MY, MY HOUSE, MY NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE AND A FEW MORE ON THAT BORDER, THIS PROPERTY, WE ALL GET WATER CONSTANTLY IN OUR BASEMENT. EVEN WITH THE LIGHT RAIN LAST NIGHT, MY NEIGHBOR HAD WATER IN HIS BASEMENT. NOT THAT THAT AFFECTS WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, BUT THERE'S ALREADY SOME WATER ISSUES. THE OTHER THING I WANT TO ADDRESS IS WHERE THE WALKING TRAILS ARE GONNA, THAT'S DEFINITELY CUT INTO THE WOODS BECAUSE MY KIDS WALK BACK THERE ALL THE TIME TO WALK UP TO THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. BUT THAT'S GONNA DAMAGE THE WOODS. BUT ALSO, I DON'T KNOW WHO'S HIKING THAT UNLESS YOU'VE HIKED EVEREST OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BEFORE. 'CAUSE IT'S PRETTY STEEP. AND THEN WHERE IT'S DARK UP IN THAT RIGHT CORNER, I MEAN, YOU'RE LOOKING, THERE'S A RAVINE IN THERE THAT I SAY YOU ARE WALKING BACK THERE AND YOU FALL IS ARE YOU CRAWLING DOWN TO OUR HOUSES OR ARE YOU CRAWLING BACK UP TO? SO THAT AND SAFETY, NOBODY'S WALKING DOWN THERE. I THINK THERE'S A FEW, FEW PEOPLE THAT HUNT THE PROPERTY, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, IF SOMEBODY'S WALKING DOWN THERE, DO WE HAVE ANY PRIVACY, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN OUR PROPERTY AND THE WALKING TRAIL? THAT'S ALL I WOULD LIKE TO BRING UP. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. WHAT ELSE? OKAY, SO WHAT DO WE DO? YOU DO HERE, JEFF? UH, YOU MAKE A RECOMMENDATION BASED ON THE LATEST PLAN REVISION AND UH, YOU SAY WE'LL BE ON WITH SUPER 27TH, THEY'RE SCHEDULED FOR THE 27TH. NO. ANY COMMENTS? YEAH, ONE THING I WILL SAY, WHEN YOU'RE UP ON THE VERY TOP, LIKE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT CIRCLE, IT IS BEAUTIFUL UP THERE, GREAT VIEW AND EVERYTHING. SO THAT'S, UM, OKAY, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO MAKE RECOMMENDATION, UM, FOR A, UH, PROPOSAL THAT WE DO SOMETHING WITH THIS, UH, THIS, UH, TENTATIVE CLAIM. I'LL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE APPROVE THE TENTATIVE PLAN, UH, RECOMMEND TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. UM, THAT MEANS THAT, UH, THEY WILL PROCEED APPROPRIATELY WITH THE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND WAIVERS AS APPROPRIATE CONFORM TO THE ENGINEERING CRITERIA, LETTERS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED, WHICH THEY SAID THEY WILL COMPLY WITH. UM, [00:50:01] AND, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S IT. ALRIGHT, SO I GOT A MOTION FROM, UH, JOE TO, UH, RECOMMEND THIS APPROVAL TO THE, UH, BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. DO I HAVE A SECOND OR ANY OTHER COMMENTS? I'LL SECOND. KEVIN'S MADE A SECOND. UM, ALL IN FAVOR? A AYE, AYE. I'M ABSTAIN. I VOTE. I'M GONNA LET THE SUPERVISOR SEE IT BEFORE I VOTE OVER. SO I'M GONNA, WELL, I'LL SAY, UH, I'M, I'M ABSTAIN, SO, BUT IT PASSES, UH, AND, UH, WE'LL MOVE IT ON. LIKE I SAID, IT'LL BE ON THE 27TH. PERFECT. THANK YOU GUYS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, JEFF, LET'S [DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS] MOVE ON. OKAY, FUTURE AGENDA ITEM, FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. I KNOW THIS SOUNDS LIKE A BROKEN RECORD, BUT I AM ANTICIPATING LOVER'S LIE THAT WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN ANY NEW PLANS IN BASED ON OUR LAST LETTER. I DO HAVE AN EXTENSION. ZACH AND I RECEIVED AN EXTENSION YESTERDAY OR SOMETHING AT THROUGH THE END OF MAY. UH, ALL WE CAN DO IS WAIT AND SEE AND THAT'S WHAT'S LISTED FOR RIGHT NOW. EVERYTHING ELSE, WHEN WE GO DOWN THE LIST OF ACTIVE APPLICATIONS, UH, WE TALKED ABOUT LOVER'S, LANE PROSPERITY DRIVE. THEY'RE REDESIGNING SOME OF THEIR, UH, STORM WATER, SO THEY'RE GONNA BE A LITTLE WHILE LONGER. SPOTLESS CAR WASH, I THINK JEN HAS A, A PHONE CALL WITH THEM COMING UP TO DISCUSS WHAT THEY NEED TO DO ON THEIR PLAN SPRING FORWARD WALK. IS THAT, IS THE SPOTLESS ANYWHERE CLOSE TO BE ON AN AGENDA ITEM YET? PROBABLY NOT, BECAUSE THEY'RE ASKING FOR PRELIMINARY AND FINAL. SO AGAIN, WHEN WE GET TO FINAL AND DEVELOPMENT, IT HAS TO BE A CLEAN LETTER. OH, OKAY. SO IF YOU'RE ASKING FOR IT, YOU DON'T GET TO GO ON AN AGENDA TILL YOU'RE CLEAN. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO, SO YOU'RE, WE'RE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JUNE MAYBE, MAYBE WHO I, I DON'T KNOW THAT, I MEAN, JEN HAS TO HAVE A PHONE CALL TO SORT OF WALK THROUGH WHAT THEY NEED TO DO. I I THINK THAT, I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR THEM OR FOR JAN, WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE GONNA BE. SPRING FORWARD WALK. UH, WE HAVE REVISED PLANS FROM THEM. I THINK THEY MIGHT BE POTENTIAL FOR MAY 6TH. I, I WE HAVEN'T FINISHED THAT REVIEW LETTER. THAT ONE'S IN PROGRESS. THAT ONE'S IN PROGRESS. POSSIBLY MAY 6TH. SO THAT'S A POTENTIAL MADE FOR MAY 6TH, UH, SPARES LANE, THEIR REVIEW LETTER, THEY'RE GOING FOR FINAL. MISS MENNONITE. OH, MENNONITE WROTE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY NEW PLANS. UH, WE'RE WAITING FOR REVISIONS FROM THE APPLICANT TO ADDRESS THE ENGINEERING LETTERS. AGAIN, THEY'RE ASKING FOR FINAL, PRELIMINARY AND FINAL TOGETHER. SO THEY HAVE TO HAVE A CLEAN LETTER. SPARES LANE, THEIR LETTER JUST WENT OUT THIS WEEK OR THE END OF LAST WEEK. I CAN'T REMEMBER. IT ALL BLENDS AND THEY, UM, THEY HAVE SOME THINGS TO CLEAN UP. THE MINISTRY TOWN HOMES. WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANYTHING NEW FROM THEM SINCE WE WENT THROUGH THAT WHOLE EXERCISE. SAME ANYTHING WITH YOUR KEYS AND HOPWOOD. SO WHEN YOU DON'T HEAR FROM THEM AT ALL, WHAT, WHAT KIND OF TIMEFRAME DO YOU GIVE THEM? OR DO YOU JUST STAY ON THERE UNTIL THEY SAY THEY STAY ON THERE? AS LONG AS, AS LONG AS THEIR ESCROW STAYS CURRENT, AS LONG AS THERE'S MONEY FUNDING THE ESCROW, I REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY ABILITY TO TELL THEM. YEAH, NO. THE REASON WE WENT THROUGH THAT PROCESS BEFORE IS BECAUSE THEIR ESCROW WAS SO UNDERFUNDED, RIGHT. THAT WE, WE WERE LOOKING TO GET IT FUNDED. AND SO THAT WAS THE COMPROMISE WE CAME TO IS FUND IT AND WE'LL PUT YOU BACK ON THE AGENDA. AND THEY DID. AND THEY DID. RIGHT. SO, BUT IT COULD BE ANOTHER, YEAH, AGAIN, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, I MEAN, I WOULD ASSUME I WOULD'VE HAD SOMETHING BY NOW WHERE AT LEAST HEARD FROM THEM. THAT'S GOTTA BE THREE, THREE YEARS NOW. OH, THEY ORIGINALLY APPLIED IN 2023. NO, NO, I'M SORRY, 2021. THAT'S, THAT'S, YEAH. SO THAT'S OUR, THAT'S LIKE OUR COVID BABY. YEAH. SO, UM, THEN YOU'VE GOT YOUR KEY STATION, HOPWOOD HOMES. AGAIN, THOSE ARE JUST, THEY'RE CLEANING UP OUTSIDE AGENCY THINGS. UM, WE HOPE TO SEE 'EM SOMETIME SOON. PARKHOUSE DEVELOPMENT, THAT'S THAT HOPWOOD THING. IS PENDO ON BOARD WITH THAT? JUST CURIOUS. YES. AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS IS, IS ACTUALLY THAT'S PROBABLY MOST OF THE COMMENTS RIGHT NOW IS, IS WHAT PENDO IS ASKING THEM TO DO IN TERMS OF THE REPLACEMENT OF THE CULVERT ON 29, I'M SORRY, THE RECONSTRUCTION OF THE CULVERT ON 29, THE REPLACEMENT OF THE CULVERT ON HOPPER ROAD AND VARIOUS OTHER IMPROVEMENTS THAT THEY NEED TO DO THROUGH THERE. SO THEY'RE TRYING TO WORK WITH PENDOT. WE'RE NOT REALLY INVOLVED. OKAY. I JUST, I DID, I DID THINK THAT PENDOT WAS ONE OF THE ISSUES. YES. AND I JUST WAS CURIOUS WHETHER THAT WAS THE BIG ISSUE. I GUESS YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S MY INTERPRETATION OF IT. BRIAN, AS OUR TRANSPORTATION ENGINEER MAY HAVE ANOTHER ONE. I WOULD DEFER TO HIM ON [00:55:01] THAT. NOPE, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU. IT, IT IS, UH, THEY'RE WORKING WITH PENNDOT AND RIGHT NOW IT, IT IS A BUNCH OF TECHNICAL ANALYSIS OF THE, THE CULVERT UNDERNEATH 29, THE ABILITY TO CONVEY THE WATER THAT'S COMING IN THAT AREA. RIGHT. OKAY. AND THE WHITING OF THAT WHOLE ROAD IS ALL, ALL PART OF THIS. THE WHOLE, THAT WHOLE CORRIDOR ALL THE WAY UP TO PERM AND WOODS, THAT WHOLE, SO, SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF PIECES. THE YERKES HOPWOOD PROJECT DOES WIDENING AT HOPWOOD. RIGHT. AND ACROSS THE CULVERT, THE HIGH MULTIFAMILY APARTMENTS OPPOSITE PERFUME AND BOULEVARD, PERCUMIN WOODS KIND OF COMPLETES THE GAP ON THE COLLEGEVILLE SIDE. CORRECT. THERE WILL STILL BE A MISSING LINK FOR, UH, THERE'LL BE, IT'LL STILL NECK DOWN TO ONE LANE NORTHBOUND BETWEEN, AS YOU COME DOWN THE HILL GOING TOWARDS HOPWOOD, THERE'S STILL A, I THOUGHT ABOUT A QUARTER MILE STRETCH. I THOUGHT THE PLAN WAS FROM THE, THE, FROM THE, UH, COLLEGEVILLE, UH, PEOPLE, I THOUGHT, I THOUGHT WE THOUGHT THEY WERE GONNA FIX THAT WHOLE AREA COMING DOWN THAT HILL ALL THE WAY INTO COLLEGE FROM, FROM COLLEGEVILLE. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE BRIDGE AT COLLEGEVILLE? I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WHOLE THING COMING DOWN ONE LANE, MAKING WIDENING THAT WHOLE THING. BRING THAT WHOLE ROAD COMPLIANT ALL THE WAY DOWN THROUGH ALL THE WAY, ALL THE WAY DOWN THROUGH UP, IF YOU WILL, ARE COL. SO THAT'S ACROSS THE CALL. YEAH. SO COLLEGE, SO BETWEEN S HOPWOOD AND, UH, THE APARTMENTS OF COLLEGEVILLE, THERE'S A STRIP THERE, THERE, IT WILL BE FIVE LANE SECTION FROM COLLEGEVILLE ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO HOPWOOD SOUTH OF HOPWOOD. WE WILL MAINTAIN TWO LANES COMING UP THE HILL AND AS YOU CREST TO COME DOWN TOWARDS 4 22. RIGHT. REALLY BUT NORTHBOUND THERE WILL IT, THERE WILL BE, THERE'S ABOUT A QUARTER MILE STRETCH OF ONE LANE SECTION BETWEEN, AS YOU COME DOWN THAT HILL INTO THE HOPWOOD WOOD GULLY, THERE'S ABOUT A QUARTER MILE STRETCH THAT IS, WILL STILL REMAIN ONE LANE. THAT'S OUR MISSING LENGTH THAT WE'RE WHERE THE SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE IS. YES. YEP. RIGHT, RIGHT IN IN THAT AREA. WHAT ABOUT THE ERKY STATION? PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT INVOLVED IN THAT, THEY'RE PICKING UP AT A POINT AND WIDENING IT TO GET UP, UP TO, UP TOWARDS, TOWARDS HOPWOOD AND GOING ACROSS THE CULVERT IN THE COLLEGE. SO THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN, ZACH, THERE'S NO WAY THAT WE CAN MAKE THIS A CONDITION FOR ALL THREE OF THESE PEOPLE TO FIX THAT WHOLE ROAD. SO YOU CAN'T REQUIRE A DEVELOPER TO DO OFFSITE IMPROVEMENTS. THEY, YOU, YOU CAN ONLY REQUIRE THEM TO IMPROVE THE FRONT EDGE THAT'S ALONG THEIR PROPERTY. IN THIS SITUATION, PENNDOT HAS ASKED THEM TO DO SOMETHING. PENNDOT IS MORE AUTHORITY TO REQUIRE OFFSITE IMPROVEMENTS THAN THE TOWNSHIP DOES. UM, THERE ARE SOME PROJECTS THAT ARE POTENTIALLY IN THE WORKS THAT MAY BE ABLE TO HELP CONTRIBUTE SOME MONEY TOWARDS DOING THAT. BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT FROM THE ENGINEERS THAT IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE. SO PUTTING THAT KIND OF FINANCIAL BURDEN ON ONE DEVELOPER, ESPECIALLY WHERE THEY'RE ALREADY DOING A FAIR AMOUNT OF WIDENING, WIDENING ALONG THE OTHER PARTS OF 29, I THINK IS, IS NOT FEASIBLE. BUT, BUT YOU CAN, YOU CAN AGREE, BRIAN, THAT THAT LITTLE BOTTLENECK THAT'S GONNA BE LEFT COULD BE A MAJOR TRAFFIC PROBLEM. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE GONNA EXPECT COMING DOWN, COMING OVER THERE, TWO LANES GOES TO ONE, THEN BACK UP TO TWO. AGAIN. YOU'RE GONNA HAVE PEOPLE MERGING AND COMING IN MOVING, NOT HIGH SPEED. I JUST SEE THAT AS A PROBLEM. IT IT IS DEFINITELY AN AREA THAT WE'RE AWARE OF WHEN WE'RE PAYING ATTENTION TO AND WE'RE TRYING TO FIND, UM, AVAILABLE OPTIONS TO, TO, TO, YOU KNOW, FINISH OUT THAT SECTION AND, AND WIDEN IT. BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT IS NOT A, IT IS NOT A SIMPLE THROW IN A COUPLE EXTRA. I'M NOT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT MINIMIZING THE IMPORTANCE OF IT. YES. I'M I'M JUST SAYING, IS THERE A WAY THAT WE CAN GET, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I SEE THAT AS BEING ALL THESE CARS ARE GONNA BE TURNING, COMING UP. THEY'RE COMING DOWN. YOU HAVE THIS QUARTER OF A MILE, HALF A MILE WHERE IT'S ONE LANE. I SEE THAT THAT'S A MAJOR PROBLEM. BELIEVE ME. THAT THAT BOTTLENECK IS A HIGH PRIORITY OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. ALL RIGHT. THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING DOWN THERE. AND THAT'S GOOD. I THINK THAT THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING TOO. THERE ARE THINGS IN THE PIPELINE THAT WE THINK WILL HOPEFULLY BE ABLE TO HELP CONTRIBUTE TO RESOLVING THAT ISSUE. BUT YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE ARE SOME DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE GONNA HAVE SOME PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL TRAFFIC IMPACT FEES THAT WE MAY USE THAT MONEY TOWARDS, UM, MAKING SOME OF THOSE IMPROVEMENTS. WELL, JIM, ON A NON-CONTROVERSIAL NOTE, PARK HOUSE IS ON OUR AGENDA. [01:00:02] OR ON THE AGENDA? NO, WELL, OH, IT'S ON OUR LIST. UM, WE'RE REVIEWING IT. I CAN'T TELL YOU WHEN IT'S GONNA BE ON THERE BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS GONNA BE PROBABLY ONE OF THOSE TYPES OF DEVELOPMENTS WHERE ONCE WE GET IT REVIEWED ONCE WE'LL GO BACK AND FORTH WITH THEM AND WE'LL GET A CLEANER, MORE REFINED PRELIMINARY PLAN. SOMETHING THAT ISN'T SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF PAGES. UM, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO ADD, BRIAN? YOU PUT YOUR FINGER ON IT. SO I, I DID TRIGGER. SO WHILE WE ARE REVIEWING THAT PLAN FROM A LAND DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT, PENDO HAS REVIEWED THEIR, THEIR INITIAL SUBMISSION AND PENDO IS, UM, REQUIRING A MEETING BETWEEN THE DEVELOPER OF THE TOWNSHIP, UH, TO, TO COLLABORATE BECAUSE THEY, THEY SEE ISSUES. UM, JUST AS WE'RE SEEING ISSUES, WE, WE, UM, DID SHARE OUR COMMENTS WITH PENDO IN, IN A COLLABORATIVE PROCESS. SO WE'RE ON, WE'RE ON BOARD WITH THEM, THEY'RE ON BOARD WITH US. UM, AND WE'LL HAVE A COLLABORATION MEETING AT SOME POINT WITH THE DEVELOPER TO TALK ABOUT THE IMPROVEMENTS AND WHAT THAT MEANS. BRIAN, ONE OVERALL QUESTION, IS IT POSSIBLE IF IT SHOULD EVER GET TO A PRELIMINARY OR FINAL PLAN THAT WE COULD REQUIRE THEM TO DO ALL THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS PRIOR TO CONSTRUCTION OF THE HOMES? I MEAN, WE DID, WE DID THAT IN THE OAK SHOPPING CENTER. SO IT ALL DEPENDS UPON THE WAY THAT THEY PRESENT THEIR ANALYSIS. WHAT I CAN SH AT THIS POINT, WHILE WE HAVEN'T FINALIZED OUR REVIEW ON THE TRAFFIC SIDE, WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THE TRAFFIC STUDY. THEIR TRAFFIC STUDY ASSUMES ALL OF THE IMPROVEMENTS WITH ALL OF THE HOMES. IT DOES NOT LOOK AT A CONDITION WHERE THERE WOULD BE SOME HOMES WITHOUT CERTAIN IMPROVEMENTS. SO THE INTERPRETATION THAT I WOULD HAVE IS THAT ALL THE IMPROVEMENTS ARE COMING UP FRONT AND BEFORE, YOU KNOW, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU COULD GET, YOU KNOW, A MODEL HOME BUILT AND AND OPEN BEFORE YOU FINISH A CERTAIN PIECE? YES. BUT IN ESSENCE, THE IMPROVEMENTS WOULD COME WITH, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST PIECE OF THE DEVELOPMENT. UNLIKE SOME, SOME PROJECTS PHASE THEIR IMPROVEMENTS AND, AND THEIR DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS NOT ANALYZED IN THAT WAY AT ALL. I WASN'T ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION AT THE TIME, BUT I WATCHED THAT OAKS COMPLEX WHERE THE WAWA IS AND THE FAST FOOD AND THE WHOLE STRIP OF SHOPPING CENTERS IN THE BACK. UM, PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING WAS IN ALL THE 4 22 WIDENING OF RAMPS AND EVERYTHING WAS IN BEFORE THEY STARTED BUILDING THE WAWA AND OTHER, I THINK THAT WAS MORE OF A NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT BECAUSE OF THE EXPO CENTER, BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING AT WHAT'S THE 4 22 BUSINESS CENTER, EVERYTHING THAT AUDUBON LAND DEVELOPMENT WANTED TO DO BECAUSE AUB ONLINE AND I THINK THAT THERE WAS SOME GRANT MONIES INVOLVED. SO I, I THINK IT WAS A COMBINATION OF ALL OF THE DEVELOPMENT IN THAT AREA. I I, YOU MAY BE RIGHT THAT THERE'S SOME AGREEMENT THAT SAID YOU CAN'T HAVE A SINGLE STORE OPEN UNTIL THESE IMPROVEMENTS ARE DONE. I'M NOT AWARE OR AWARE OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S NOT POSSIBLE. I WASN'T COMMISSION AT THE TIME. RIGHT. AND, AND AGAIN, IT WAS, IT WAS SORT OF A NEGOTIATED IMPROVEMENT THROUGH THAT WHOLE AREA FOR EVERYTHING, INCLUDING THE EXPO CENTER AND SOME OTHER AND, AND ALL OF THAT KIND OF MOVING FORWARD. OKAY. SO, UM, NEXT WOULD BE COLLEGE OF MULTIFAMILY. WE'VE ALREADY SORT OF TALKED THROUGH THAT ONE. THAT ONE INCLUDES 13TH BRIDAL LANE, UM, WHILE 13 BRIDAL LANE'S. A MINOR SUBDIVISION. WE COULD HEAR THAT IN PROBABLY A COUPLE WEEKS. IT'S GONNA GO AT THE SAME TIME AS COLLEGE OF MULTIFAMILY. AGAIN, PROBABLY DEVELOPMENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH A COUPLE ROUNDS OF REVIEW LETTERS FIRST, AND THEN IT'LL BE ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA. AND THEN WE HAVE ONE 40 WHITAKER AND NOW 1348 TOWNSHIP BOARD. WHAT ABOUT THE, WHATEVER HAPPENED WITH THE, UH, ZONING BOARD AND THE PICKLEBALL GUYS THAT IS COMING UP FOR, THEY'VE HAD THEIR HEARING, THEY'VE CLOSED THE HEARING. THEY ARE HAVING, THEY'RE, THEY'RE READING A DECISION OR THEY'RE VOTING ON A DECISION A WEEK FROM YESTERDAY ON THE 21ST. NEXT TUESDAY THEY WILL, THEIR DECISION AND THEN WHAT DOES THAT COME BACK TO US? IT DOES BECAUSE AT THAT POINT ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THEY GET APPROVAL FOR IT, THEY WOULD COME BACK AND THEY WOULD GO THROUGH TENTATIVE SKETCH. SO THAT'S WHEN WE WOULD LOOK AT JEN'S LETTER AND LOOK AT THE LAYOUT OF THE PLACE AND SAY, HEY, WE DON'T LIKE THIS PARKING. HEY, WE DON'T LIKE THAT PARKING. [01:05:01] NOW THEIR PLAN THAT THEY TALKED ABOUT IN FRONT OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD HAS CHANGED FROM THE PLAN THAT WE'VE REVIEWED AND WAS INITIALLY AS, AS AN APPLICATION. SO WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA GO BACK AND RE-REVIEW IT NOW WITH, WITH BRIAN HERE. THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT MORE TRAFFIC COMMENTS ON IT AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT, THAT PLANT'S JUST BEEN SITTING AROUND FOR SO LONG THAT I THINK WE, WAIT, WHAT'S THAT CALLED? WHAT DO YOU CALL THAT? UH, FIVE NINETY TWO MENNONITE ROAD. PICKLEBALL OR AGRI? THE AGRI CENTER. THAT'S PICKLE. SO THAT'S WRONG IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT HISTORY. RIGHT. AND, AND TECHNICALLY I GUESS IT COULD BE ON THIS LIST, UM, AS, AS THE TENANT SKETCH IS STILL PENDING. . OKAY. I'M GONNA WRITE IT ON HERE. JUST OKAY. WHERE, WHERE ARE WE AT WITH THE LEVER'S LANE? HAVE WE GOT A TENTATIVE PLAN APPROVAL OR ANYTHING? NO, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY APPROVALS. DETECTIVE. OKAY, GOOD. THEY, THEY PUT THEIR, UM, TENTATIVE SKETCH ON HOLD TO COME AND GET PRELIMINARY FINAL. JEN REVIEWED THEIR LATEST SUBMISSION. THERE'S STILL SOME QUESTIONS AND, UM, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO SUBMIT SOME OTHER PLANS TO US AND THEY HAVE NOT DONE THAT AT TODAY. IT'S A REAL PROBLEM IF YOU COME OUT OF THAT ROAD AND YOU GOT THAT HUMP COMING DOWN 29, IT'S, IT'S BLIND. IF SOMEBODY'S DOING A LITTLE OVER THE SPEED LIMIT, THEY'RE GONNA REALLY HAVE TO HIT THE BINDERS TO LET THAT CAR OUT. SO IT ALWAYS SHOULD BE A ONE WAY STREET, BUT THEN IT'S ANOTHER ISSUE DOWN BELOW. THEY'VE GOTTA WIND THEIR WAY OUT THROUGH ALL THE, THE TOWN, IF YOU WILL. AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT WHEN THEY'RE IN FRONT OF US. YEAH. YEAH. OKAY. SO, UH, AND THEN WHAT ELSE DO YOU HAVE? THAT'S, THAT'S THE AGENDA. I CERTAINLY CAN'T ADD ANYTHING TO IT. YEP. SO, WELL, EVERYTHING, I JUST ADDED THAT. YEAH, THAT WOULD BE IT. AND THEN, UM, AND THEN, SO, UH, IT'S REALLY THREE WEEKS FOR OUR NEXT MEETING. YES. 'CAUSE OF THE WAY THE CALENDARS THIS MONTH. SO WE'RE ACTUALLY WON'T BE TILL MAY 6TH, WHICH IS ACTUALLY THREE WEEKS FROM TODAY. YES. AND, AND WE'LL SEE, WE'LL PROBABLY KNOW WITHIN A WEEK OR TWO WHERE WE'RE AT WITH THE OTHER REVIEWS SO I CAN REACH BACK OUT. AND I KNOW WE'VE GOTTEN AWAY FROM HAVING THINGS ON, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A WORKSHOP MEETING. WE'VE GOTTEN AWAY FROM THAT. SO MAYBE WE'LL JUMP BACK INTO THAT ON MAY 6TH IF WE NEED TO. YEAH. BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, BOB AND I AND JOE WERE TALKING, WE'VE GOT A COUPLE THINGS WE'D LIKE TO BRING UP. WE SHOULD SAVE THAT FOR THE NEXT WORKSHOP. WORKSHOP. YEAH. I MEAN, YOU'RE OPEN TO SHOOT ME AN EMAIL AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT. WELL, IT'S JUST ABOUT THE, UH, STACK, YOU KNOW, FROM, UM, FROM, UM, QUEST, YOU KNOW, AND WE APPROVED IT, EVERYBODY APPROVED IT, BUT, BUT WE'RE A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THE STACKED HOUSING THING OKAY. MOVING FORWARD. OKAY. I MEAN, ANYBODY CAN DO IT. I SUPPOSE NOW THAT WE'VE GOT SOME, LIKE, THERE'S NO ZONE THAT YOU CAN HAVE THEM AND ONES THAT YOU CAN'T, I THINK WE'VE LIMITED IT TO JUST, IF YOU PUT IT IN A COMMUNITY REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER WITH THAT WHOLE SORT OF CONDITIONAL USE THAT WENT ALONG WITH IT FAIRLY SURE YOU COULDN'T, I MEAN, LET'S SAY TOWNHOUSES ARE AVAILABLE IN R THREE I, I'M FAIRLY SURE IT'S THE STRAIGHT DEFINITION OF TOWNHOUSES, NOT THE STACK DEFINITION OF TOWNHOUSES. YEAH. OKAY. WE'LL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT AGAIN. YEAH. OKAY. AND THEN AGAIN, YOU DIDN'T CHANGE YOUR FROM LAST MONTH EITHER. IT'S MAY 6TH, NOT THE EIGHTH. SO JUST, JUST, JUST, AND WE START ONE OF THESE DAYS. I'LL FIX IT. YEAH. IT'S OKAY. UM, WE START AT SIX. YES. THAT PARK BOARD MEETING STARTS AT SIX O'CLOCK. IT'S JUST THE SIXTH. OH. BEEN FIXED. UM, BUT NO, BUT WE'RE GONNA START EARLY. THE EAC NORMALLY STARTS AT FIVE 30, BUT BECAUSE IT'S A JOINT MEETING WITH JOINT BOARD, IT'S SIX O'CLOCK. BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AFTER IT. BECAUSE OUR, OUR, YOU KNOW, THAT SHOULD BE THE 13TH THEN. IT SHOULDN'T BE THE SIXTH. YEAH. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AFTER BECAUSE WE'RE NOT TILL THE 13TH. THE, THE NO, NO, WE'RE THE SIXTH TOO. THE SIXTH IS THE WELL, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE THING SHOULD BE THE 13TH. YES. THAT SHOULD BE THE 13TH. THE ENVIRONMENTAL COUNCIL SHOULD BE THE 13TH. RIGHT, RIGHT. BECAUSE THEY, THEY MEET ON THE OFF WEDNESDAY THAT WE DON'T, WE SAID DECISION 13TH HERE. LET'S, HE KEEPS FIXING IT. YOU GOTTA KEEP YOUR EYE ON IT. HE KNOW HE MOVES THAT FAST. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. THAT'S IT. SO I'LL TAKE A MOTION. GOOD, JEFF? YEAH, WE'RE GOOD. TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. KEVIN'S MADE A MOTION. I TAKE A SECOND. I SECOND. ALL FAVOR? AYE. AYE. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.