[00:00:01]
YOU READY, JEFF? YEP.[CALL TO ORDER / MOTION TO APPROVE FEBRUARY 18, 2026 AGENDA]
OKAY.I CALLED A ORDER THE WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 18TH, 2026, MEETING OF THE, UH, UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND WITH THAT, WE'LL LOOK AT THE AGENDA AND, UH, I TAKE A MOTION IF EVERYBODY APPROVES THE AGENDA, IT LOOKS LIKE, IS THIS, UH, A LOT, JEFF? OR IS WE JUST, IS THESE ARE THESE, THERE'S NOBODY HERE.
SO WHAT, WHAT'S THE, IT'S JUST THE GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS. THERE'S FOUR THINGS IN THERE.
SO I'LL TAKE A, A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.
AND A SECOND I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION.
BOB MADE A MOTION TO HAVE A SECOND.
AND THEN, UM, WITH THAT, WE'LL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT FROM, UH, THE A FROM THE PUBLIC.
PLEASE STAND UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
SO WE HAVE NO, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT,
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
SO WE'LL MOVE RIGHT TO OUR GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS. WE HAVE NO MINUTE START, EITHER ARE JEFF.NO, I'LL JUST DO THOSE THE FIRST MEETING OF A MONTH.
SO WE'LL GO RIGHT TO OUR, OUR GENERAL DISCUSSION, UH, UH, ITEMS, WHICH IS PLAN ACCEPTANCE FOR SPARES LANE AMENDED FINAL PLAN.
AS WE SORT OF TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE BIT BEFORE THE MEETING, RIGHT.
NO, I, I JUST THOUGHT IT LOUD ENOUGH.
UM, TRAVEL JOHN, I JUST LITTLE I APPRECIATE.
AND THE, UM, THEY WERE LAST APPROVED AND THEY DO HAVE FINAL PLAN APPROVAL FROM JUNE, 2018.
BUT BASED ON SOME ENGINEERING CHANGES THAT THEY HAD TO MAKE TO, TO MEET THE CURRENT ENGINEERING STANDARDS, WE ARE ASKING THEM TO DO THE RESUBMISSION OF A FINAL PLAN.
SO WE'LL GO THROUGH AND WE GET ALL THE ENGINEERING COMMENTS ALL CLEANED UP AND WE'LL BRING THEM BACK IN FRONT OF YOU.
BUT WE STILL HAVE TO ACCEPT THE PLAN.
SO THAT'S WHAT, TO START WITH.
WHERE ARE THEY BID? THE PREVIOUS OWNER WHO WAS IN BEFORE YOU BACK WAY IN 2018, HE'S SAT ON THE PROPERTY FOR A LONG TIME.
I DON'T, I THINK THERE WAS SOME COSTS, UNEXPECTED COSTS TO THE, TO DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY THAT HE COULDN'T QUITE MEET.
AT LEAST THAT'S THE RUMOR ERROR.
IT WAS SEVEN MONTHS TOO, WASN'T THERE? I, I THINK IT WAS MORE MONTHS.
I THINK IT WAS SIX AT THE TIME.
SO PART OF IT IS, IS THE ENGINEERING COSTS.
PART OF IT IS SOME OF THE, THE COSTS OF THE PROPERTY.
I DON'T THINK HE'S OWNED IT PROBABLY FOR FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AT THIS POINT.
WE'VE HAD A COUPLE PEOPLE COME IN AND THIS IS AS FAR AS IT'S EVER GOTTEN TO GET TO A RESUBMISSION.
WELL HAVE, UH, HAVE ALL THE ENGINEERING ISSUES BEEN RESOLVED YET, OR PENDING? NO.
THE LAST MEETING WE HAD WITH THIS CURRENT DEVELOPER, WE WENT THROUGH SOME OF OUR OLD LETTERS.
'CAUSE BACK IN 2018 IT WAS SORT OF BEFORE WE DECIDED TO DO CLEAN PLANS AND FINAL, YOU COULD STILL GET FINAL AND HAVE THINGS TO CLEAN UP AT FINAL.
WE'VE CHANGED THAT POLICY BECAUSE THE ATTITUDE OR THE LEGAL ASPECT OF IT HAS CHANGED.
SO WE'VE, WE EXPLAINED TO THE DEVELOPER WHAT THEY STILL NEEDED TO DO, WHAT SOME OF THE EXPENSES WERE THAT THEY NEEDED TO SPEND FOR, YOU KNOW, UM, OPEN SPACE AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND THEY CAME BACK AND THEY, THEY'VE REDESIGNED THE PLAN A LITTLE BIT AND NOW THEY'RE HERE.
IF MY MEMORY IS CORRECT, DIDN'T HE, WASN'T THERE SOME OPPOSITION FROM THE GUY THAT OWNS THE PROPERTY OFF TO THE NORTH THERE? YES.
THE MALLICK, MR. MR. AND MR. MALLICK, THEIR BROTHERS.
THEY, UM, THEY HAVE VOICED SOME OPPOSITION AND I HAVE, I EMAILED THEM.
I, THEY'RE ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT LOVER'S LANE.
SO I EMAILED THAT LOVER'S LANE'S GONNA BE IN OR BE ON AN AGENDA.
AND SO I EMAILED 'EM TODAY SAYING THAT THIS WAS GONNA BE TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT.
ONLY IN THOSE GENERAL SENSE, NOT MAKING ANY CONCLUSIONS, NOT MAKING ANY, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSION OF, OTHER THAN THE HISTORY OF IT, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
I DID NOT HEAR BACK FROM HIM, BUT HE'S NOT THE KIND OF GUY THAT EMAILS YOU BACK WITHIN MINUTES.
SO, SO IS THIS GONNA COME BACK FOR FINAL, ANOTHER FINAL APPROVAL? YES.
WITH THE CHANGES THAT ENGINEERING HAS? YES.
WELL, SHE, SHE HAS A COPY OF THE PLANS, BUT SHE HASN'T REVIEWED IT AT THIS POINT.
SHE WILL REVIEW IT AND THEN WE WILL WORK THROUGH THOSE COMMENTS AND, AND CLEAN IT UP.
AND THEY'LL COME BACK THEN FOR QUOTE, FINAL PROOF.
AND WASN'T THERE SOME, UM, ACCESS, FIRE ACCESS BACK THERE TOO? I THINK THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION OF ACCESS OUT TO 29, RIGHT? I DON'T, BECAUSE OF THAT GARAGE OR WHATEVER THAT'S RIGHT ON THE RIGHT.
I, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS EVER FEASIBLE GIVEN THE TOPOGRAPHY, BUT I CAN LOOK INTO THAT FOR YOU AND SEE WHAT IT WAS.
HONESTLY, I RECEIVED THIS LAST WEEK AND I SORT OF SAT ON IT UNTIL, WE'RE JUST BRINGING IT HERE NOW.
WE'LL SORT OF GEAR UP AND STARTED LOOKING AT THINGS, YOU KNOW, BASED ON WHAT TOM SAID, I'D SUGGEST MAYBE, UH, OUR FIRE MARSHAL BOOK IT.
AND JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT IF YOU KNOW THAT ROAD THAT GOES BACK THERE, THERE'S A HOUSE OR A BARN OR SOMETHING
[00:05:01]
SITS RIGHT ON THE ROAD.I MEAN, LITERALLY RIGHT ON THE ROAD.
AND, UH, I MEAN, THERE MIGHT BE LESS THAN A FOOT BETWEEN THE ROAD AND NOT THIS BUILDING.
SPARES LANE ITSELF IS PROBABLY 20 FEET WIDE, 22 AT MOST.
I KIND OF REMEMBER SOMETHING ABOUT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WAS UNHAPPY ABOUT THAT.
THEY WERE GONNA, I, I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT I KNOW THERE WAS SOME QUESTION ABOUT IT.
I, I THINK THERE WAS ALSO SOME DISCUSSION OF IMPROVEMENTS AT SPARES LANE IN 29.
BUT AGAIN, I HAVEN'T LOOKED INTO THAT.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE WILL LOOK IN AS WE REVIEW IT.
DE BECAUSE YOU COME UP OVER THE, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE.
THERE'S SOMETHING ON THE OFFICIAL MAP, BUT I THINK THAT'S FURTHER UP.
BRIDGE LOVE'S LANE IS NORTH OF THIS.
SO THAT PLAN, WE WILL START THE CLOCK ON, EVEN THOUGH THEY'VE GIVEN US THE WAIVER, BUT WE WILL COUNT IT AS OFFICIAL NOW.
AND THEN SPOTLESS CAR WASH IS IN FOR THEIR PRELIMINARY FINAL.
UM, WE ALL KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.
IT'S PRETTY TYPICAL LAND DEVELOPMENT.
THEY'RE JUST AT THE NEXT STAGE THEY'VE PROVIDED THE ENGINEERING SOME TRAFFIC INFORMATION ZONING.
THEY HAD THE ZONING ISSUE TOO, RIGHT? THEY DID.
THIS IS REALLY JUST AT THIS POINT, ADMINISTRATIVE.
WE WILL REVIEW IT AGAINST THE, UM, ENGINEERING AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
WE'LL HAVE THE FIRE MARSHAL LOOK AT IT TO MAKE SURE HE CAN MAKE THE TRUCK TURNS, EVEN THOUGH I KNOW THAT THEY'VE ALREADY HAD CONVERSATIONS AND THEY'VE ALREADY WORKED THROUGH A LOT OF THINGS BEFORE THEY SUBMITED PLANS AND THERE, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS JUST, THIS IS THE NEXT SET, NEXT STAGE OF LAND AND ALL.
AND THERE WERE, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF ISSUES FROM RESIDENTS IN TERMS OF HEIGHTS OF FENCING AND ALL THOSE ISSUES.
WE HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT AGAIN.
ONCE WE, WHEN WE DO SORT THIS PLAN ACCEPTANCE, IT REALLY MEANS WE HAVEN'T LOOKED, STARTED LOOKING AT IT YET.
SO, BUT WE WILL, I MEAN, I, I HAVE ALL THOSE DECISIONS AND CONDITIONS AND WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT THEY, WE AT LEAST FIGURE OUT WHERE THEY ARE WITH 'EM.
SO YOU'LL PROBABLY SEE BOTH, WELL, YOU'LL SEE THIS ONE PROBABLY BEFORE YOU'LL SEE SPARES LANE, GIVEN THE DIFFICULTY OF ENGINEERING SPARES LANE.
BUT EITHER WAY, YOU SHOULD SEE THEM PROBABLY IN A MONTH, MAYBE APRIL.
I'M SURPRISED THAT THE, UM, THE CAR WASH.
IS IT, YOU KNOW, TRY TO PUSH IT FASTER, OPEN BY SPRING, GET SOMETHING GOING.
WELL, THEY ARE GOING FOR PRELIMINARY FINAL, WHICH I DON'T REALLY RECOMMEND, BUT I HAD EXPLAINED TO THEIR ENGINEER.
THAT MEANS YOUR LETTER HAS TO BE CLEANED RIGHT BEFORE YOU CAN COME IN THE BUILDING.
IF YOU WANNA COME IN FOR PRELIMINARY BEFOREHAND, WE CAN HAVE COMMENTS.
AND AS LONG AS WE KEEP THEM TO A MINIMUM, YOU CAN HAVE COMMENTS IN A LETTER.
BUT IF YOU WANT TO GET FINAL, YOUR LETTER HAS TO BE DOWN TO JUST OUTSIDE AGENCY STUFF.
WE SHOULD HAVE A LOT OF CLEAN CARS IN THE TOWNSHIP WITH ALL THE CAR WASHING.
CAN, CAN I START WITH MINE? NOBODY'S WASHING THEIR OWN.
I DO HAVE A NEIGHBOR IN THE MIDDLE OF A WINTER.
I, I'M TELLING YOU, THE HONEST TO HONEST TRUTH, HE IS OUT THERE WASHING HIS CAR.
I ACTUALLY, I ADMIRE HIM IMMENSELY.
I WAS SURFING ON AMAZON YESTERDAY AND I FOUND A PRESSURE WASHER THAT IS CORDLESS THAT YOU CAN JUST DROP THE THING, THE WATER RECEPTACLE INTO A BUCKET.
AND I'M LIKE, THAT'S WHAT I NEED.
BECAUSE AS BOB PROBABLY KNOWS, WASHING A CAR WHILE WE CAN DO IT IN OUR TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT IS RATHER DIFFICULT.
'CAUSE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO RUN A HOSE, A SIGNIFICANT DISTANCE.
SO I WOULD BE OUT THERE DOING THAT SOON.
AND WHEN ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS SAYS, YOU CAN'T WASH YOUR CAR OUT HERE, I'M GONNA SEND 'EM TO BOB'S DOOR AND HAVE HIM KNOCK ON THAT
I'M SURPRISED THEY LET YOU WASH YOUR CARS.
DID THAT HE HAS, HE SAID ACROSS THE STREET, DENNIS DOES HIS, HE, HE SAID IT IN A PUBLIC MEETING.
SO NEXT WE HAVE, I, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME APOLOGIZE.
I MEANT TO HAVE LARGE COPIES OF EVERYTHING FOR YOU, BUT OUR PLOTTER TODAY DECIDED THAT IT WASN'T GONNA WORK.
THAT IT WAS ON SPRING BREAK OR WHATEVER.
WE FIRST, WE RAN OUT OF PAPER, WE GOT THE PAPER IN.
WHEN I TRIED TO LOAD THE PAPER, THE PAPER WOULDN'T LOAD.
SO NOW WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR A TECHNICIAN TO COME OUT.
BUT THE LONG AND THE SHORT OF IT IS I'VE REDONE THE OFFICIAL, THE, THE RIGHT OF WAY MAP, MOSTLY TO BE CONSISTENT WITH OUR OTHER MAPPING STYLES.
SO IN MY MIND, IT JUST HASN'T WORKED THAT WAY.
I, AND THERE WERE A FEW MINOR TWEAKS THAT I WANTED TO MAKE JUST IN TERMS OF SHOWING PRIVATE ROADS AND SHOWING SOME OTHER THINGS.
UM, I'LL BRING LARGER COPIES TO YOU, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, NOTHING'S CHANGED.
IT WILL NOT BE TILL APRIL NOW, BECAUSE OF THE, THE LAG BETWEEN THE MONTHS AND THE SHORT MONTHS.
WE SORT OF MISSED THE DEADLINE TO GET IT TO THE COUNTY IN TIME.
'CAUSE I WAS WAITING FOR THE COUNTY TO COME BACK AND SAY, YOU NEED TO, OR YOU DON'T NEED TO.
AND THEN THEY TOLD ME THE DAY THAT I SHOULD HAVE PUT IT IN THAT, OH, BY THE WAY, YOU NEED TO, BUT I WASN'T NOWHERE NEAR A COMPUTER WHERE I COULD PUT THE APPLICATION IN.
SO IT WILL BE ON APRIL'S BOARD AGENDA FOR A HEARING.
BUT YOUR RECOMMENDATION, WE, WE'LL GET YOUR RECOMMENDATION AT PROBABLY THE, THE MARCH MEETING SHOULD BE A FORMALITY, BUT I'LL BLOW IT UP LARGE FOR YOU SO YOU CAN SEE IT.
THE INFORMATION HASN'T CHANGED FROM WHAT ANTHONY
[00:10:01]
PUT ON THERE.JUST LOOKS GRAPHICALLY DIFFERENT.
SO, SO WHAT'S THE PROCEDURE AFTER WE, UH, APPROVE OR, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDED TO THE BOARD? WHAT HAPPENS? WE HAVE A, WE HAVE TO HAVE AN OFFICIAL HEARING BECAUSE IT IS, IT'S LIKE THE ZONING MAP.
IT, SINCE IT'S AN OFFICIAL MAP, WE HAVE TO HAVE A HEARING.
I'LL EXPLAIN WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING AND WHY, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT THE, WHAT THE CHANGES ARE THAT WE MADE PREVIOUS TO THIS VERSION, WHAT THIS REPRESENTS.
AND THEN WE'LL GO THROUGH THE OFFICIAL MAP AND THEY'LL HAVE A HEARING THAT WE'LL HAVE THE, THE, THE COURT REPORTER THERE.
AND WE WILL HOPEFULLY OFFICIALLY ADOPT IT.
NOW IS THAT, IS THAT ABOVE AND BEYOND THE NORMAL MEETING THAT THE SUPERVISOR HAD? NO, WE'LL DO IT IN THE FIRST FIVE MINUTES OF THEIR MEETING.
I MEAN, IT SHOULD BE FAIRLY QUICK.
BRIEFLY, COULD YOU EXPLAIN THE, THE MINOR DETAILS, CHANGES THAT YOU MADE FROM THE LAST ONE THAT WE, I THINK APPROVED QUITE FRANKLY? YES, YOU DID.
IT, IT, IT REALLY WAS JUST, UM, LET ME ZOOM IN HERE.
ZOOM IN THIS WAY WITH ANTHONY'S.
AND, AND LOOK, I I, I'M NOT DOING THIS AS A DISPARATE BOWMAN, BUT WITH ANTHONY'S IT, IT, THE, THE COLOR SCHEME DIDN'T WORK.
THE, THE, THE, THE LAYERING OF THE ROADS DIDN'T WORK.
HE DIDN'T HAVE PRIVATE ROADS ON THERE.
SO THIS IS A LITTLE HARD TO SEE JUST 'CAUSE OF THE SCALE OF IT.
BUT I'VE ADDED SOME PRIVATE ROADS.
I'VE MADE THIS MORE REPRODUCIBLE, A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO SCAN, A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO, UM, READ, I THINK THAN JUST THE STRAIGHT COLORS.
WHAT'S THE S IN THERE? WHAT ARE THEY TELLING YOU? I CAN'T SEE 'EM VERY WELL.
THIS, THIS IS JUST THE, BASICALLY IT'S JUST THE DIFFERENCE, THE DIFFERENT RIGHT OF WAYS.
AND WE'VE APPROVED ALL OF THESE.
I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THESE ALL WERE.
I JUST PUT IT INTO SOME MORE DETAIL.
SOME MORE DETAIL, SOME DIFFERENT, A DIFFERENT LOOK TO IT SO THAT I, BECAUSE I THINK IT READS BETTER THIS WAY.
SO YOU'RE LOOKING FOR US TO RECOMMEND THAT THE BOARD APPROVE IT.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT TONIGHT AGAIN.
LET'S WAIT UNTIL WE GET THE BIG MAP.
UH, FILTER OUTMAN, UM, BLACKROCK.
IS BLACKROCK BEING CHANGED? NO.
IT'S STAYING WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY.
IT'S A COUPLE DIFFERENT THINGS.
THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
THE ULTIMATE RIGHTWAY IS STAYING THE SAME.
THERE'S A, THERE'S A, IT IT IS TYPICALLY A COLLECTOR WITH A MINI MINIMUM OF 80 FEET, RIGHT.
40 FOOT 40 FOOT FROM THE CENTER LINE.
AND THEN YOUR HOUSE HAS TO BE ANOTHER 40 FEET.
BUT, UM, WHEN YOU'RE DOWN AT THE CORNER AT BLACKROCK IN 29, IT ACTUALLY, PENDOT HAS REQUIRED THAT IT BE, YES, I WAS HERE AT THE MEETING THAT THEY HAD TO YEAH, THE REDEVELOPMENT HAD TO HAVE MORE OF A SETBACK.
SO THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE IT'S NOT WELL, AND, AND THEN WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO EGYPT ROAD, IT'S, IT'S A WIDER DOWN IN EGYPT AND BLACKROCK AS WELL.
WELL, I GUESS MY CONCERN IS I SIT ON THE ROAD ALMOST ON THE ROAD ANYWAY AND IF IT'S WIDENED TO WHAT, FROM A COLLECTOR TO ARTERIAL, THAT'S GOING TO PUT THE ROAD IN MY HOUSE THE ULTIMATE RIGHT AWAY.
AND, AND WE ARE, WE ARE NOT PROPOSING TO, TO CHANGE THAT AT ALL.
I JUST KNOW IT'S ONE OF MY CONCERNS.
I DIDN'T GET INTO THE, ONE OF THE MEETINGS EARLIER MEETINGS ABOUT THIS.
SO IT IS A CONCERN OF MINE AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.
AND, AND FIRST OF ALL, IT'S NOT A STATE, IT'S NOT A TOWNSHIP ROAD.
PENNOCK CAN COME IN AND, BUT TELL ME I'M FULL OF CRAP, BUT I JUST WANTED TO RIGHT.
GET IT OUT THERE FROM OUR RIGHT OF WAY MAP.
WE'RE SAYING WE WANTED WHERE IT IS NOW.
WHICH IS, I THINK IT'S ALREADY AT THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY.
FROM WHEN WE WENT THROUGH AND WIDENED IT MM-HMM
15, 20 YEARS AGO, BEEN A WHILE.
BEEN A WHILE BECAUSE THAT, THAT SIDE OF BLACKROCK WAS THE SAME THING RIGHT BEFORE I MOVED.
SO THAT, THAT WAS ACTUALLY WIDENED OUT I THINK FOR GSK OR EASTMAN KODAK WHEN THEY CAME IN.
AND AND EVEN THOUGH WE, WE DESIGNATE ROADS DIFFERENTLY, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IT ONLY, UH, BECOMES INTO PLAY WHEN THERE'S NEW DEVELOPMENT THAT THEY'VE GOTTA CONFORM TO THE NEW WIDTHS.
IF, IF WE CHANGED, WELL THE TOWNSHIP AT SOME POINT COULD SAY WE WANT TO, WE COULD TAKE IT ON AS A PROJECT TO GO IN AND SAY WE WANT TO WIDEN THIS ROAD TO ITS ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY IF WE SO CHOSE, IF WE DECIDE TO PAY FOR IT.
BUT THAT ALSO MEANS THAT WE PAY FOR THAT RIGHT OF WAY.
WE PAY FOR THE WIDENING, WE PAY FOR THE CONSTRUCTION, ALL OF IT.
[00:15:01]
IT'S A TOWNSHIP PROJECT.SO, BUT ISN'T THERE A LOT OF LANE ON THE OTHER SIDE? IT'S NOT ON THE OTHER SIDE.
MARK ON RIGHT NOW IT'S A FIRE STATION.
IT'S A, IT'S A FIRE BEFORE THAT.
I THINK WHEN THE ROAD BEFORE YOU GO INTO THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT, WHEN THE ROAD WAS WIDENED, IT DID SHIFT LEFT SOMEWHAT.
AND IT IS WIDER TO THE SOUTH SIDE.
SO YOU MEAN OKAY, IF I CAME IN WITH THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR MY PLACE, HEAVEN FORBID
BUT THEY COULD STILL REQUIRE APPARENTLY SETBACK BEING MORE RIGHT.
IF, IF YOU, IF YOU SOLD 'EM, TOLD BROTHERS IT WAS GONNA PUT FOUR HOUSES ON YOUR PROPERTY, WE WOULD MAKE TOLL BROTHERS.
WHY DO THE ULTIMATE RIGHTAWAY? BUT IF JUST I CAME IN WITH IT REPRESENTING ME WITHOUT ANY
NO, YOU'RE KINDA LIKE TOLL BROTHERS, AREN'T YOU? DON DON'T TOLL FOUR OUNCE EITHER BY RULE, THE SUBDIVISION LAND DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE REQUIRES THAT ANYBODY WHO DOES LAND DEVELOPMENT WIDENS THE ROAD TO THE FULLEST EXTENT INSTALLS CURBS, INSTALLS SIDEWALKS.
BUT THAT THE RULE IS, I UNDERSTAND.
SO WE'LL HOLD THAT OFF TILL THE NEXT MEETING.
THEN THE ULTIMATE, THE OFFICIAL MAP, WE, WE, WE, WE ARE AT THE FINISH LINE OF THAT.
UM, I KNOW WE, WE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED IT, WE PREVIOUSLY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF IT.
I NOTICED THAT I HAD LEFT SOME THINGS OFF OF THERE.
WE ALSO HAD TO SEND IT BACK TO THE COUNTY 'CAUSE THE COUNTY'S REVIEW LETTER SAID YOU NEED TO PROVIDE US THE ACTUAL ORDINANCE.
AND I'LL ZOOM INTO WHAT I CHANGED ON THIS ONE.
UM, YOU HAVE TO SHOW US WHAT THE ACTUAL ORDINANCE LANGUAGE IS FOR ADOPTING IT.
WE DIDN'T PROVIDE THAT TO THEM AND THEY, THEY NEED TO SEE THAT.
SO THAT OF COURSE RE-TRIGGERS THE 30 DAY REVIEW AND FIRST STARTS THAT PROCESS AGAIN.
UM, THIS IS RUNNING REALLY SLOW TODAY.
SO THE FIRST ONE IS, WE DIDN'T SEE THE PURPLE LINE IN THERE.
WE DIDN'T HAVE THE, UH, WHAT WE CALL THE RICH PIPE RELIEF ROUTE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN LIDELL CAME IN, WE MADE THEM PUT A ROAD AROUND THE BACK PART OF THEIR PROPERTY.
THERE'S A FULLY WIDENED ROAD BACK THERE THAT EVENTUALLY WILL ATTACH TO ANOTHER ROAD THAT GOES SORT OF THE DIAGONAL PIECE THAT'S THAT'S RIGHT IN HERE, RIGHT UNDERNEATH THE ONE.
WE'LL CONNECT DOWN TO A TOWNSHIP RIGHT AWAY FOR A KLEIN ROAD TO HAVE A FOUR-WAY INTERSECTION WITH KLEIN ROAD AND HOPEFULLY CONTINUE DOWN TO PEN ROAD SO THAT IF IT IS RETAIL LONG HERE AND WE'LL HAVE THAT DISCUSSION IN A LITTLE BIT.
UM, THAT THIS ROAD STILL SORT OF PROVIDES RELIEF TO RIDGE BIKE.
SO YOU'RE NOT IN AND OUT, IN AND OUT ONTO RIDGE BIKE.
CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT? YEAH, THAT'S BEEN ON THE OFFICIAL MAP FOR DECADES NOW AND, AND I HAD LEFT IT OFF, BUT IT'S SOMETHING I THINK THE TOWNSHIP STILL NEEDS TO, WHO PUT THE ROAD IN LIDLE? DID LIDLE DID BEHIND THEIR PROPERTY.
ARE THEY USING THAT FOR TRUCKS TO YEAH, THAT, THAT IS THEIR TRUCK ENTRANCE IN THE BACK, BUT IT ALSO DEAD END RIGHT AT THEIR PROPERTY LINE RIGHT HERE SORT OF, UM, RIGHT AT THAT.
SO WITH THE CAR WASHING IN, THAT IS, THERE'S NO ROAD BEHIND THAT? NO, THE THE CAR WASH ACTUALLY FINISHES BEFORE THAT.
THERE IS RIGHT OF WAY BEHIND THAT BETWEEN THE BANK AND SOME OF THE HOUSES THAT ARE OVER THERE.
THERE IS SOME RIGHT OF WAY THERE.
AND IT CONNECTS OVER THE, THE BEND HERE IS, THIS IS THE LIONEL DEVELOPMENT.
IT COMES BACK THROUGH AND THEN AGAIN, IF THIS DEVELOPS, WHEN THIS DEVELOPS, WE'LL HAVE DISCUSSIONS EXACTLY WHERE THE ROAD IS.
BUT TO HAVE IT ON A MAP REQUIRES THEM TO PUT SOMETHING IN.
AND THAT'S WHY LIDLE PUT IT IN BECAUSE WE HELD FAST AND SAID YOU NEED TO PUT IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS ROAD.
THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT, BUT THEY DIDN'T.
THE SECOND ONE WAS, UM, HOPWOOD ROAD REALIGNMENT.
I, IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO SEE UNDER THE 18 OVER HERE, BUT THE INTERSECTION OF HOPWOOD ROAD AND BECHTEL ROAD NEEDS TO BE REALIGNED.
AND, AND THAT ALSO INCLUDES THE, UM, ALIGN, THE, THE CONTINUATION OF HOPWOOD ROAD PAST 28 BELE ROAD.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE PANZA DEVELOPMENT THAT WE DID WITH SEVEN HOUSES.
THEY DEAD ENDED THAT ROAD THERE.
AND THEY, WE ALREADY OWN THE RIGHT OF WAY TO CONTINUE IT THROUGH, UM, THE TOWN.
THE SUPERVISORS ACTUALLY PUT THE DESIGN OF THIS IN THEIR BUDGET FOR THIS YEAR.
SO WE'RE DESIGNING IT, BUT AGAIN, IT SHOULD BE ON THE RIGHT OF WAY MAP SO THAT, THAT, THAT CHANGE NEED TO STATE TO BE PUT BACK ON 17 AND 18.
WHAT ABOUT THE BECHTEL ROAD THING? WHAT'S THE, DOES THAT LINE MAP THE INTERSECTION THERE TENDS TO TAKE YOU TO THE, IT, IT SORT OF DRIVES YOU
[00:20:01]
TO THE LEFT AND IT'S A T INTO WHAT IS HOP, WHAT CONTINUES TO HOPWOOD ROAD.THE DESIGN OF IT WILL CONTINUE MAKE THE HOPWOOD ROAD CONTINUOUS ALL THE WAY OVER TO THE BECHTEL OLD STATE ROAD CORNER.
IS THAT IN THE BUDGET? THE DESIGN WORK IS, OH, AND THE, AND THE SUPERVISORS WILL DECIDE, I ASSUME, YOU KNOW, IN BUDGET SEASON NEXT YEAR IN THE, IN THE FALL, WHETHER OR NOT THEY DECIDE TO FUND THAT ROAD IMPROVEMENT FOR NEXT YEAR.
NOW I DON'T THINK IT'S VERY POPULAR WITH THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT, WELL I, I KNOW OF A FEW PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE AREA THAT DON'T WANT TO KNOW A COUPLE PEOPLE IN THE AREA THAT DO WANT IT.
SO IT'S UP TO THE SUPERVISORS TO APPROVE IT OR NOT.
BUT THIS PROVIDES THEM THE BASIS TO SAY THAT IT'S A PLAN THAT WE'VE HAD.
AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT'S SHOWN ON THE OLD OFFICIAL MAP OF WHAT, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THE OLD, THE OLD, UM, THERE, THE OLD, UM, SCHOOL BOARD BUILDING.
WHO OWNS THAT SCHOOL BOARD STILL? THEY STILL OWN THAT PROPERTY.
IS THAT SOMETHING THEY WOULD DONATE TO FIX SOME OF THIS? UM, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD REALLY IMPACT IT.
'CAUSE IT'S ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF BECHTEL ROAD.
UM, THEY HAVE TALKED ABOUT SELLING IT.
THEY HAVE TALKED ABOUT DOING SOMETHING WITH IT.
WE'VE ALL, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T, WE'VE HAD MEETINGS PROBABLY ONCE EVERY THREE OR FOUR YEARS ABOUT DOING SOMETHING WITH IT OR SELLING IT, DOING SOMETHING WITH IT.
IN TERMS OF FOR THE SCHOOLS? YEAH.
MAKING UP SOME KIND OF SCHOOL SOMETHING.
AN ADMINISTRATIVE BUILDING, SOMETHING LIKE THAT THERE.
AND POSSIBLY, I MEAN THEY, THEY COME WITH A COUPLE IDEAS AND WE'VE EXPLAINED WHAT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IS AND WE'LL SHORTCUT AS MUCH AS WE CAN OUT OF MUNICIPAL FRIENDSHIP, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY STILL GOTTA COME IN WITH A PLAN.
SO, BUT IT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT LIKE IT'S A PRIORITY FOR NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S A PRIORITY FOR THEM.
AND THE TOWNSHIP HAS TALKED ABOUT SWAPPING IT AND SAYING, HEY LOOK, IF WE DO SOMETHING, COULD WE GET THIS? YEAH.
I SAY, BUT THEY SELL IT TO THE TOWNSHIP.
I DON'T, I THINK THAT HASN'T REALLY GENERATED ANY INTEREST.
NEXT ONE IS, IS THERE'S A COUPLE DIFFERENT PARTS OF THIS.
THERE IS THE LONGWOOD LONGFORD ROAD AND BLACKROCK ROAD INTERSECTION.
AND IT'S GOING DOWN THE HILL OVER HERE AND SOMEONE'S TURNING YEAH, YOU'RE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, ROLLER COASTERING DOWN THE HILL.
THE IDEA HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO WIDEN THAT AND AS A PROJECT TO WIDEN IT AND TO MAKE THE TURN BETTER, TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SEE COMING UP LONG FRUIT ROAD.
THE PROJECT HASN'T REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF TRACTION.
IT HASN'T, IT IS GONNA BE PRETTY DIFFICULT 'CAUSE ONE HOUSE IS RIGHT UP ON THE ROAD.
THE OTHER HOUSE HAS A BRICK WALL THERE.
IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A CHALLENGE, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD STAY ON, ON THE, ON THE OFFICIAL MAP.
AND WITH THAT ALSO IS TURN THERE.
IT'S, IT'S DIFFICULT WITH THAT IS ALSO, UM, NUMBER 13, WHICH IS THE LOVER'S LANE THAT KEVIN BROUGHT UP.
THAT'S THE, THE EXTENSION OF LOVER'S LANE OR THE EXTENSION OF A MAN OR LANE, WHATEVER THE ROAD ENDS UP BEING CALLED IN THERE.
I DIDN'T WANT THAT TO FALL OFF THE MAP.
I THINK IT'S GONNA GET DEVELOPED THAT WAY.
IT'S DESIGNED THAT WAY ALREADY.
BUT IF FOR SOME REASON IF THAT DEVELOPER WERE TO GO IN THE WIND, SOMEONE COULD COME IN AND GO, WELL IT'S NOT ON YOUR MAP ANYMORE.
SO THAT NEED TO GET BACK ON THERE.
AND NUMBER 12 IS A REALIGNMENT OF EGYPT AND COLLEGE OR LOW ROAD.
I'M SURE YOU'VE SEEN THAT INTERSECTION WHERE IT IS YOU'RE, YOU'RE THERE TO LIGHT.
SO THE, THE DESIGN HAS BEEN NOT DESIGNED, BUT THE IDEA HAS BEEN TO WIDEN THAT INTERSECTION A LITTLE BIT.
IT'S A LITTLE HARD 'CAUSE THERE'S A HOUSE RIGHT THERE AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO TAKE THE PERSON'S HOUSE.
BUT IF FOR SOMETHING WERE TO COME UP AT SOME POINT IN TIME WHERE WE COULD ACQUIRE THAT HOUSE, YOU KNOW, LEGALLY, AND, AND WITHOUT DOING A WHOLE BUNCH OF TAKING PROCESS THAT WE COULD GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AND GET IT WORK WITH THAT HOMEOWNER AND SELL IT TO US.
IF THE BOARD WANTED TO DO IT, WE COULD WIDEN THAT INTERSECTION AND MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
BUT THE LONGWOOD NUMBER 13, NUMBER 12, THEY'RE NOT EVEN IN DESIGN YET.
NUMBER 13 IS THAT IS LOVER'S LANE.
SO LOVER'S LANE IS FULLY DESIGNED BY THE DEVELOPER AND WILL BE PUT IN BY THE DEVELOPER.
MY CONCERN WITH TAKING, IF I WAS TO TAKE IT OFF THE MAP WOULD BE TO THAT, IF THE DEVELOPER EVER JUST DECIDED I'M NOT GONNA DO THIS PROJECT.
AND IN FIVE YEARS SOMEONE CAME BACK AND SAID, WELL, I'M GONNA PUT MY 11 HOUSES THERE THAT I CAN PUT THERE.
I COULDN'T SAY TO THEM WHETHER IF IT WAS ON THE MAP, OKAY, WELL WE NEED TO PUT THIS ROAD THROUGH.
UM, SO THOSE ARE THE CHANGES I'VE MADE.
I I HAD CLEANED UP THE, THE COUNTY MAP ALSO POINTED OUT SOME, UH, I THINK THERE WAS A, A COUPLE LITTLE ERRORS IN THERE.
SO I FIXED THOSE, SET IT BACK.
[00:25:01]
AND, UH, SO SO WHAT'S THEIR ROLE? THEY HAVE TO APPROVE FIRST THEY HAVE TO, THEY ADVISE, THEY, THEY DO LIKE YOU DO TO TO THE SUPERVISOR? TO THE SUPERVISOR.WELL TO YOU, TO THE SUPERVISORS.
THEY, THEY WILL OFFER, UM, A LITTLE BIT MORE TECHNICAL ADVICE THAN, THAN WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION TYPICALLY DOES.
WHAT ABOUT THE STATE, ESPECIALLY LIKE LOVERS WHERE IT'S COMING OUT THE 29.
DO THEY HAVE ANY INPUT? NO, THEY WOULD ONLY WHEN IT GETS DEVELOPED, WILL PENN NOT GET INVOLVED? ONLY WHEN A DEVELOPER IS IN HAND AND, AND IS LOOKING TO DO IT, WILL THEY GET INVOLVED? THEY, THEY HAVE WHAT'S CALLED A SCOPING APPLICATION AND THAT'S WHERE A DEVELOPER WILL COME TO THEM.
AND THIS IS SORT OF THE STAGE WHERE WORDS FROM BAPTIST IS RIGHT NOW.
THEY'LL COME IN AND THEY'LL SAY, LOOK, WE HAVE TITLE TO THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY.
WE HAVE THE OPTION ON THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY AND WE THINK WE CAN BUILD THIS NUMBER OF UNITS.
WHAT IMPROVEMENTS DO YOU THINK YOU'RE GONNA NEED FROM US SO THAT THEY CAN START TO DESIGN THEIR PROPERTY AROUND THOSE THINGS.
SO AGAIN, I'LL PRINT THIS OUT LARGER WHEN IT WORKS WE'LL COME IN AND WE'LL JUST DO THE ADMINISTRATIVE YAY OR NAY NEXT MONTH, IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT? YEAH, THAT'S GREAT.
SO THEN WE'RE MOVING TO THE ANNUAL REPORT FOR PLANNING AND ZONING DEPARTMENT ACTIVITY.
I I REALLY AM JUST LOOKING FOR AN APPROVAL AT THIS POINT.
I DO HAVE ONE CORRECTION THAT MR. PETERS HAS POINTED OUT TO ME THAT ON THE SECOND PAGE OF IT, IT SAYS OUTLOOK FOR 2025.
IT SHOULD SAY OUTLOOK FOR 2026.
UM, OTHER THAN THAT, I HAVEN'T MADE ANY CHANGES.
'CAUSE YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ME ANY.
AND THIS IS, THIS WOULD BE A VOTE FOR YOU TO APPROVE THE ANNUAL REPORT.
AND THEN WHAT I WILL DO, WHICH I HAVE TO DO BY MARCH 1ST, IS I WILL SEND THE BOARD A COPY OF THIS REPORT.
YOU'LL SEND WHAT? I'LL SEND A COPY OF THIS TO THE, TO THE BOARD.
AND THIS IS UNCHANGED OTHER THAN THE ONE OTHER THAN THAT ONE CHANGE C FOUR.
DATE WAS THE ONLY THING I HAD SAID TOO.
ALRIGHT, SO WE NEED A, UH, WE NEED A PROPOSAL TO APPROVE.
YOU, YOU, THIS IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT YOU ACTUALLY APPROVE.
WELL, LET'S HAVE SOME MEETINGS.
LET'S, LET'S GET SOME CONSULTANTS IN HERE.
AND LET'S, THIS IS UN CHANGE, THIS IS UNCHANGED FROM WHAT WE SAW, AT LEAST THE LAST MEETING, IF NOT THE TWO MEETINGS.
UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK, I THINK WE PREVIOUSLY SAID WE THOUGHT THIS WAS RELATIVELY COMPREHENSIVE AND DID A GOOD JOB OF REPRESENTING WHAT'S TRANSPIRED NOT JUST FOR OURSELVES AS A PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT UH, OUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE HEARING BOARD AS WELL AS WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH SUPERVISORS AND THE OUTLET.
SO WHERE DOES THIS GO? WHEN IT'S APPROVED? WHERE, WHO, WHO GETS IT? I WILL SUPERVISORS, I WILL EMAIL A COPY OF THE SUPERVISORS AND TIM BERMAN, THE TOWN MANAGER AND JUST SAY, HERE'S MY ANNUAL REPORT FOR THE YEAR.
UM, IT MAY GO ON A BOARD AGENDA FOR DISCUSSION, BUT I, I DON'T, DOESN'T HAVE TO.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO APPROVE IT.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO, UH, THEY DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT IT.
IT REALLY IS JUST ADMINISTRATIVE ONCE YOU APPROVE IT.
UM, AND THEN AT THAT POINT IT WILL GO IN A FILE ON A SHELF.
SOMEBODY'S INBOX, RIGHT? YEAH.
WELL THEN I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE, UH, WITH THE CHANGES THAT WERE JUST MENTIONED A DATE.
AND, UH, WHO WANTS TO DO IT? I'LL, I'LL MOVE THAT WE, UH, APPROVE THIS, UH, AMENDED, UH, MEMORANDUM.
UM, I THINK IT'S A GOOD SUMMARY.
OH YEAH, IT'S A VERY GOOD SUMMARY.
YEAH, BUT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS FOR A WHILE LAST TIME.
ALRIGHT, SO MR. PETERS A SECOND.
AND THE SECOND TO LAST THING IS RICH PIKE ZONING.
AGAIN, MR. PETERS WASN'T HERE FOR THIS DISCUSSION, BUT I'M SURE HE'S TUNED IN AND LISTENED TO IT.
UM,
AND IT WAS A COMBINATION OF SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF RESIDENTIAL NUMBER UNITS.
I MEAN, I, I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT SOME APARTMENTS, SOME TOWNHOUSES, SOME SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED AND SOME RETAIL.
WHERE AT NOW WHAT? FROM FROM LIONEL TO WHERE? LIONEL ALL THE WAY DOWN ALMOST TO GREENWOOD AVENUE.
EVERY LARGE PARCEL IN THERE, THEY HAVE SOME STAKE IN, BUT NOT, ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT TAKING OUT ALL THOSE HOUSES AND EVERYTHING? BUYING UP ALL THOSE HOUSES? THERE, THERE WOULD BE VERY FEW BECAUSE THE, THE ONES THAT ARE IN FRONT THAT ARE SORT OF, AS YOU GET CLOSER TO GREENWOOD, GREEN GREENWOOD, I DON'T THINK THAT PART OF IT.
I, AGAIN, THIS IS VERY PRELIMINARY DISCUSSIONS WITH 'EM.
[00:30:01]
I BASICALLY SAID YOUR, OF YOUR OPINION AT THE TIME WAS THAT THE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD REALLY AREN'T LOOKING TO APPROVE MORE APARTMENTS AND MORE DENSITY IN THAT AREA SPECIFICALLY OR REALLY ANYWHERE IN THE TOWNSHIP.WE HAD THE DISCUSSION AT THE LAST TIME, THE SAME MEETING LAST MONTH ABOUT, WE DON'T, IT'S NOT CLEAR WHAT YOU CAN REALLY REZONE INTO.
AND WE SEE THAT THAT'S REALLY GONE NOWHERE OVER THE PAST 15, 20 YEARS THAT NOBODY'S REALLY COME IN OTHER THAN LIDLE.
WE'RE NOT SEEING RETAIL COME IN FOR ANYTHING FARTHER AWAY FROM TOWNSHIP WINE.
YOU CAN DO A LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, WHICH IS WHAT THE, THE KLEIN ROAD DEVELOPER HAS WAS LOOKING FOR.
AND THAT'S LOW LEVEL RETAIL OR LOW LEVEL, UM, INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS, FLEXIBLE INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WHERE IT'S TWO TO 4,000 SQUARE FEET.
THE, THE, IT IS FAIRLY TRANSITORY IN MY MIND OF A PLUMBER COMES IN FOR A COUPLE YEARS, LEAVES, YOU KNOW, AN AUTO MECHANIC COMES IN FOR A COUPLE YEARS, LEAVES.
AND THE PROBLEM WITH SOME OF THAT IS THAT THOSE USES TEND TO BE MORE THAN JUST THE BUILDING.
YOU GET A LANDSCAPER THAT COMES IN AND THEY GET A LITTLE ROCK IN, THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, WE'RE JUST GONNA STORE IT OVER HERE IN THE PARKING LOT 'CAUSE WE CAN'T HAVE IT IN THE PLACE.
SO THERE'S ALWAYS, THERE'S ALWAYS A LITTLE BIT OF THAT WITH EVERY INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY.
WE HAVE IT DOWN IN, ON TOM'S DRIVE DOWN IN BY, UH, PROVIDENCE BUSINESS PARK THREE WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, WHERE PEOPLE ALWAYS TRY TO SAY, WELL I NEED OUTSIDE STORAGE.
WHERE CAN I DO THAT? AND THAT ALWAYS BECOMES, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE A MECHANIC, AND THIS ISN'T MEANT TO BE AN INSULT, BUT YOU ALWAYS HAVE THAT GUY HAS A CAR THAT GOES, OH, I'M GONNA WORK ON THAT IN A COUPLE MONTHS.
AND IT SITS OUTSIDE AND, AND YOU KNOW, WE KNOW HOW LONG THAT TURNS INTO YOU DON'T, WE TALK SO
UM, THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF THE ISSUE.
AND AND WE TRY TO LIMIT THAT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.
BUT, SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE ISSUE WITH LIGHT INDUSTRIAL.
HOW LONG DO WE KNOW ANY, UM, CAR WASH COMPANIES THAT HAVEN'T MOVED IN THE AREA?
I MEAN, AND THAT'S THE OTHER THING YOU COULD DO.
YOU COULD PROBABLY DO CAR WASHES AND, AND AND AUTOMOTIVE OR CAR SALES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
I'M NOT A PARTICULAR FAN OF CAR SALES AS A LAND USE.
NOT, I MEAN IT'S GOT SOME, DOESN'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF TRAFFIC IMPACT, BUT IT'S GOT A LOT OF LIGHTING.
IT'S GOT, AND IT IS JUST NOT, NOT THE, I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S, AND THEY'RE, THE LAND USES TEND TO GROW.
YOU PUT ONE IN, YOU GET SEVEN MORE.
AND JEFF, WHAT, WHAT DISTRICT WOULD WE HAVE TO CLASSIFY THIS AS FOR, TO GET LIKE PROFESSIONAL OFFICE, LIKE MEDICAL OFFICER OR A DENTIST.
I MEAN THERE'S A DENTIST MOVING IN.
UH, IS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD? WELL, YOU CAN DO THAT SOMEWHAT NEIGHBORHOOD CONVENIENCE, COMMERCIAL, BUT IT REALLY WOULD BE, RIGHT NOW YOU'D HAVE TO PUT IT IN THE PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS OFFICE DISTRICT.
I MEAN, 'CAUSE YOU, IF YOU GO DOWN FARTHER IN THE LIMERICK SIDE, THAT'S WHAT A LOT OF IT IS ON THAT SIDE.
UM, AND, AND MAYBE, MAYBE WE LOOK AT THAT.
WE DO A COMBINATION OF PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS OFFICE MAYBE WITH A SLIGHT ALLOWANCE FROM FOR LIGHT MANUFACTURER AND LIGHT INDUSTRIAL THERE.
THERE SEEMS TO BE AN EXCESS IN THAT RIGHT NOW IN THAT CORRIDOR BETWEEN COMING UP.
THE ONE YOU MENTIONING JARED, I MEAN THAT THEY'RE ONLY TAKING A LITTLE PIECE OF THAT BUILDING THE DENTIST THOUGH.
I DON'T THINK THEY'RE TAKING THAT WHOLE BUILDING.
YEAH, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE THINKING THAT WHOLE BUILDING.
AND UH, AND THEN IF YOU GO DOWN FURTHER INTO LIMERICK, THERE SEEMS TO BE A, YOU KNOW, THAT ONE SHOPPING CENTER DOWN THERE THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IN THERE.
I THINK THERE'S A BUSINESS IN THERE, BUT I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS.
AND THEN, UH, THE BUILDING CAN BUILD OUT.
THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF THAT AROUND IN THAT AREA, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO JUST ABOUT TO UH, SMALL PIPE.
THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF ACCESS.
THE WHOLE OF RIDGE PIPE BETWEEN TRAP AND GOING ALMOST TO SMALL PIPE WHERE THE, THE OR DOWN TO WHERE THE NEW SHEETS IS.
'CAUSE I THINK THEY'RE DEEP PARCELS, BUT THEY'RE NARROW AND IT REALLY WOULD WORK WELL FOR A BIG BOX.
BUT THE TRAFFIC DOESN'T SORT OF GENERATE, IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF TRAFFIC SUPPORT, THAT SORT OF POPULATION SUPPORT.
AND AGAIN, YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT BIG BOX AFTER BIG BOX.
SO THAT CORNER SORT OF MAXED OUT FOR GROCERY WITH A GIANT, UH, LIDLE, AN ALDI.
UM, UM, SO WHAT IS ANYBODY REQUESTING THAT WE DO ANYTHING WITH IT? SUPPOSEDLY WE LEFT IT ALONE.
JUST THE ONE DEVELOPER WHO'S COME IN AND ASKED ABOUT APARTMENTS AND, AND TOWNHOUSES AND, AND RETAIL AND, AND SOME SINGLE FAMILIES ATTACHED.
BUT DON'T WE WANT TO ZONE IT TO THE POINT WHERE WE CAN PREVENT THAT, THAT KIND OF PERSON, IF YOU LEFT IT ALONE, YOUR PRESENTATION SHOWED WHAT IT COULD BE COVERED.
IF IF WE LEFT IT ALONE, IT COULD BE RETAIL.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA BE VERY SUCCESSFUL.
'CAUSE NO ONE'S COME IN FOR IT.
[00:35:01]
I THINK THE, THE QUESTION THAT WE NEED TO ANSWER IS DO WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT? BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME BUILDINGS IN THERE, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF IT THAT ARE KIND OF OLD KIND OF BEAT UP.UM, WELL I BEFORE YOU GO ON, THAT'S A QUESTION I WAS GONNA ASK.
I'M THE THINKING ABOUT, WE TALKING ABOUT DRIVE BY THERE, WHO OWNS THOSE COUPLE VACANT HOUSES THERE BEFORE THE IT IS NOT WE, NO WAY WE CAN HAVE THEM THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVE THOSE PEOPLE DEMOLISH THOSE OR ANYTHING? THEY'RE NOT CONDEMNED.
WE CAN'T FORCE SOMEONE TO DEMOLISH THEM.
I MEAN, IF THEY OWE YOU, THEY'RE CONDEMNED.
ESPECIALLY LIKE THE ONE THAT, THAT WAS ON FIRE.
BUT IT, IT IS PROBABLY AN ABSENTEE LANDLORD.
IT'S PROBABLY SOMEBODY WHO OWNS IT WHO EITHER BARELY PAYS THE TAXES OR, OR MAYBE NOT, DOESN'T EVEN PAY THE TAXES.
AND MONTGOMERY COUNTY SHERIFF, WHILE I THINK THEY DO A GOOD JOB GENERALLY TO KEEP UP TO THE TAX SALES AND THE, AND THE DELINQUENT TAX PEOPLE IS AN IMPOSSIBLE JOB.
YOU KNOW, AND WE GET NOTICES, I THINK QUARTERLY OF WHAT THEY'RE GONNA PUT UP ON TAX SALE.
AND MOST OF THE TIME THAT THAT HAPPENS, THE HOMEOWNER OR THE PROPERTY OWNER WILL GO, OKAY, I'LL MAKE A PAYMENT OF X AND TAKE ME OFF OF IT.
SO IT'S VERY EASY TO COME OFF OF THAT LIST OF WHAT'LL GO UP UPON SHERIFF'S SALE, WHICH IS UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE THEN IT JUST SITS THERE.
'CAUSE THEY'RE WHAT SIGHTING THOSE TWO HOUSES, WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DEVELOP THOSE AREAS.
I'M GONNA KIND OF LIKE JERRY'S SUGGESTION THAT IF WE WERE TO REZONE TO ENABLE MORE EASILY PEOPLE TO DEVELOP HEALTHCARE FACILITIES, OFFICE BUILDINGS, YOU KNOW, THOSE KINDS OF DEVELOPMENTS RATHER THAN RETAIL WHO'S NOT COMING.
IF WE WERE TO ATTRACT PERHAPS SOMEBODY WHO'S INTERESTED, YOU KNOW, BY REZONING IT APPROPRIATELY TO ALLOW THEM TO DO THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD MOVE.
I I DON'T WANT OPEN IT UP TO INDUSTRIAL, IF YOU WILL.
DO YOU WANT, YOU WANNA EXCLUDE RETAIL? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THE RETAIL BUSINESS IS TERRIBLE RIGHT NOW AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF SPACE OUT THERE.
BUT 10 YEARS FROM NOW, WOULD WE WANT WELL YOU CAN EXCLUDE RETAIL.
I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT NECESSARILY.
I'M SAYING I DON'T WANT TO EXCLUDE NO, NO, NO, NO.
INCLUDE IT, BUT ALSO MAKE IT AVAILABLE FOR SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO DEVELOP AN OFFICE BUILDING.
UH, THAT WOULD, IN MY OPINION, YOU KNOW, MAYBE ATTRACT SOME DEVELOPERS.
UM, BUT NOT, YOU KNOW, OVERPOPULATE THAT REGION WITH, AND IT'S NOT RESIDENTIAL AND IT'S CLEAN.
SO ARE YOU, ARE YOU TALKING LIKE SMALLER PROFESSIONAL SERVICES THOUGH? BECAUSE THE ONE I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT IT AND REMEMBERING DRIVING THROUGH IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT RIGHT HERE.
IT'S NOT LIKE RIGHT OFF THE HIGHWAY INTERCHANGE.
AND IT'S SURROUNDED PRIMARILY BY HOUSING AND OPEN SPACE.
NO, IT IS, IT IS SMALL, SMALL HEALTHCARE PRACTICES IF YOU WILL.
UM, WELL, LIKE YOU SAID, THE ONE RIGHT DOWN THE STREET TOOK A HUNDRED YARDS.
I THOUGHT, UH, DENNIS MOVED IT BUILT THAT BUILDING THERE.
NOW JUST A SIGNERS DENTIST MOVEMENT PARK.
BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
I I CAN LOOK AT THAT AND WE CAN WE, I I THINK WE CAN WORK WITH A A, AN OFFICE SLASH LIGHT RETAIL MIX.
YEAH, THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S THE KEY.
I DON'T WANT TO EXCLUDE RETAIL BECAUSE I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE NEVER KNOW WHAT AN ACT COULD CHANGE.
YOU KNOW, WHEN THAT MARKET COULD COME BACK, THEY'LL CLOSE AMAZON.
THAT'S LAST WAREHOUSE SOMEWHERE.
AMAZON OR A DATA CENTER, HUH? YEAH.
UM, ALRIGHT, I WILL WORK ON THAT AND WE'LL PUT THAT ON A FUTURE AGENDA.
EVERY WE GOOD WITH THAT? YEP, WE'RE GOOD.
SO WE MOVED ON TO, UH, OH APPLICANTS TO BE HEARD ON FEBRUARY.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
AND THEN YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS YET? YES.THE FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS WILL BE, COULD BE.
SO AGAIN, YOU MY MORE MARCH 4TH, UM, WHICH IS NATIONAL PROGRESS DAY.
NOT THAT I WOULD KNOW, BUT MY OWN WORDS.
MARCH 4TH, NATIONAL PROGRESS DAY.
SO, UH, THEY DISTRICT OF BLACKROCK I THINK WILL BE READY FOR THEIR LAND DEVELOPMENT.
THEY HAVE BEEN MAKING GIANT STRIDES OVER THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS.
UM, JEN SAYS THEY'RE, THEY'RE PRETTY CLOSE.
SO HOPEFULLY THEY'LL BE READY FOR THEIR FINAL LAND DEVELOPMENT RECOMMENDATION FROM YOU.
[00:40:01]
THIS IS WHO? QUEST DISTRICT OF BLACKROCK.I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GONNA BE ON THE AGENDA.
THEY HAVEN'T PROVIDED US ANYTHING.
I'M STILL UNDER A CLOCK FOR MARCH 31ST, SO THEY WILL BE ON THIS LIST UNTIL I GET SOMETHING THAT EXTENDS ME A COUPLE MORE MONTHS.
UM, I I DON'T THINK THEY'VE SUBMITTED ANYTHING AS FAR AS I KNOW.
IF THEY HAVE, WE CERTAINLY DON'T HAVE TIME TO REVIEW IT TO BE ON THE MARCH 4TH AGENDA.
AND IF WE DON'T HAVE, IF THEY'RE NOT ON THAT AGENDA, THEY CAN'T BE ON THE BOARD AGENDA BECAUSE THE MEETING DATES DON'T WORK OUT.
THEN THEY, THEN WE HAVE MIDNIGHT ROAD NINE LOT SUBDIVISION.
JEN HAS SUBMITTED HER REVIEW FOR THAT.
THEY ARE LOOKING FOR PRELIMINARY FINAL, THAT'S THE, THE NINE LOT SUBDIVISION.
THAT WAS ALMOST A 16 LOT SUBDIVISION THAT WENT BACK TO A NINE LOT SUBDIVISION.
UM, THEY'VE SUBMITTED THEIR, THEIR PLANS, THEIR FINAL PLANS FOR THAT.
THEY, THEY'RE AGAIN, THEY'RE GOING FROM PRELIMINARY FINAL.
JEN HAS SUBMITTED HER LETTER TO ME AND IT IS I THINK 18 PAGES LONG.
SO MY PHONE CALL OVER THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS WILL BE CLEAN THIS UP.
AND IF YOU WANNA COME IN FOR PRELIMINARY, YOU CAN HAVE THINGS ON THERE.
IF YOU WANT TO COME IN FOR FINAL, EVERYTHING HAS TO BE CLEANED.
AND WHEN YOU SAY GENDER REPORT, DOES THAT INCLUDE BRIAN TOO? YES.
I I SHOULD JUST SAY GILMORE'S REPORT.
SO, SO MY ANTICIPATION IS THAT DISTRICT OF BLACKROCK WILL BE THE ONLY THING ON THAT AGENDA, BUT THE OTHER ONES ARE SORT OF LINED UP AT THIS POINT.
UM, AND IF WE CAN, I THINK WE MIGHT SQUEEZE IN THE OFFICIAL MAP AND THE I'LL, IF I GET THE PRINT WHERE I GET THE OFFICIAL MAP AND GET THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS DONE.
I KNOW YOU'RE NOT HERE TOM, BUT I THINK EVERYONE ELSE, WELL I WON'T BE HERE IN, I CAN'T GET THAT RIGHT APRIL.
SO THE IDEA WE'RE GONNA GET MEETINGS.
I'M GONNA MISS, I'M THERE, I'M IN FLORIDA THE WHOLE MONTH OF APRIL, PLEASE.
SO, NO, UNLESS THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, I WILL LET YOU KNOW THAT THE BOARD, AT THEIR MEETING LAST NIGHT, THEY HAD THE DISCUSSION ABOUT HASSAN ROAD WAS THERE, THEY TABLED IT BECAUSE THEY WANT THEM TO REMOVE THE TWO UNITS IN THE BACK.
UM, THE TWO THAT ARE SITTING DOWN AT THAT.
THEY SAID THEY WANTED, THEY WANT TO REMOVE, THEY WANT THOSE REMOVED.
UM, WHAT, WHAT WAS THEIR, WHAT WAS THEIR REASON FOR THIS? THEY JUST DON'T THINK THEY WANTED TO DISTURB THE STEEP SLOPES THAT, THAT UM, THAT THAT STEEP SLOPES ARE IMPORTANT AND THAT, THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE DISTURBING THEM IF WE DON'T HAVE TO.
NOW HOW DID THEY, HOW HOW DO, HOW DID WE MISS THAT? THEY, YOU, YOU DIDN'T MISS IT.
YOU SAID, AND YOU SAID YOU MADE A RECOMMENDATION BASED ON THE CORRECT RULES THAT THEY MEET THEIR TENTATIVE SKETCH REQUIREMENTS, BUT THEY HAVE ZONING TO CLEAN UP AND THEY HAVE TO ADDRESS THE STEEP SLOPES AND THEY HAVE TO ADDRESS THE BUFFERING.
THE BOARD, DIDN'T THEY, THEY WAITED ON THOSE SOMEWHAT, BUT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT UNDER A CLOCK BECAUSE THE MPC CLOCK HAS BEEN WAIVED BY THE APPLICANT.
THEY SAID, WE'RE NOT GONNA GIVE YOU A RULING TONIGHT.
NOW I'M EXPECTING ANY TIME NOW TO GET A LETTER SAYING PLEASE, OR THAT WE'RE REMOVING OUR WAIVER OF THE NPC CLOCK.
WE HAVE TO HAVE A VOTE BY 90 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THIS LETTER.
I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THAT'S WAITING FOR ME WHEN I GET IN THE OFFICE TOMORROW, BECAUSE THAT'S THE RECOURSE THAT THE APPLICANT HAS.
AND THEN THOSE 90 DAYS WILL GO BY, WE PUT THEM ON WHATEVER AGENDA WE CAN AND THE BOARD WILL HAVE TO MAKE A VOTE.
NOW IF THE BOARD DECIDES TO VOTE IT DOWN, THAT'S THE BOARD'S CHOICE.
IF THEY DECIDE TO VOTE IT DOWN, THAT'S THEIR CHOICE.
AND ZACH WILL BE INFORMING THEM OF WHAT THEIR LEGAL POSITION IS AT THAT STAGE.
AND I, AND I BELIEVE, AND I BELIEVE THAT KELLY, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE SUPERVISORS MADE THE COMMENT THAT IT IS NOT, THEY HAVE REAL CONCERNS ABOUT THE STEEP SLOPES.
UM, BUT THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT THOSE TWO HOMES FIT WITHIN WHAT THEY BELIEVE TO BE PROPER UTILIZATION OF THAT AREA TO MAINTAIN THE OPEN SPACE AND THE STEEP SLOPES.
RECOGNIZING THAT THAT WAS MORE A TOWNSHIP, UH, THEIR, THEIR POSITION ABOUT USAGE OF THE AREA, IF YOU WILL.
NOT SO MUCH THAT THEY DON'T MEET THE ORDINANCES OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
BUT WE ALSO, AS JEFF COMMENTED, HAD THE SAME ISSUES RELATIVE TO STEEP SLOPES AND THAT THEY HAD TO COME BACK AND, AND ADDRESS THAT ISSUE WITH THOSE TWO HOUSES.
BUT I THAT WE STILL RECOMMENDED IT FOR APPROVAL AND, UH, ONLY BUT WITH THE CONDITIONS WELL THAT THEY MET THE STEEL SCOPE AT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU MADE THE, YOUR JOB IS, IS A LITTLE MORE ADMINISTRATIVE THAN THE BOARD.
YOUR JOB IS A LITTLE BIT MORE DO THEY FIT THE ROLES? IF THEY DO, AND I, I AM NOT SAYING YOU'RE A RUBBER STAND 'CAUSE YOU'RE CERTAINLY NOT.
YOU CAN ADVISE AND YOU CAN MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS THEN, THEN THAT'S WHAT YOU DID.
[00:45:01]
IS THE ONE THAT MAKES THE HARD DECISION ON TELLING THEM YOU HAVE TO REMOVE THESE.YOU DON'T, YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT TO BE WELL, BUT, BUT ALRIGHT.
COULD, COULD WE HAVE, COULD WE HAVE SAID TO THEM THAT NIGHT? YEAH, WE JUST DON'T LIKE, 'CAUSE WE DID SAY THAT STEEP SLOPE, YOU CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
YOU CAN MAKE RECOMMEND COULD WE SAY, HEY, WE'RE GONNA, YOU COULD MAKE DENY YOU COULD HAVE, I'M NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO, YOU COULD HAVE MADE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD THAT THEY APPROVED THE PLAN WITH THE REMOVAL OF THE TWO LOCK.
AND I'M WONDERING MAYBE WE SHOULD IN THE FUTURE, WE NEED TO LOOK DEEPER AT THAT BECAUSE I, YOU KNOW, THAT CONCERNS ME THAT WE, WE APPROVED IT WITH CONDITIONS.
I KNOW WE STILL APPROVED IT TO, UM, AND NOT, AND NOT THE SUPERVISORS PICKED UP ON THAT RIGHT AWAY.
WELL, I I THINK THE SUPERVISORS ARE IN A DIFFERENT POSITION THAN YOU ARE.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE A LITTLE MORE ADMINISTRATIVE THAN THEY ARE.
I MEAN, AND THEY KIND, I DON'T YOU WANT TO USE THIS, DON'T MISUNDERSTAND ME, BUT, AND I DON'T THINK THAT KELLY SAID WE DON'T LIKE THOSE TWO HOMES, BUT IN, IN, IN SOME REGARD THAT'S KIND OF LIKE WHAT IT WAS, WAS WE JUST DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT THESE TWO HOMES ARE SITTING THERE ON THE STEEP SLOPES.
IT WASN'T THAT THERE ARE BIG STEEP SLOPE ISSUES NECESSARILY.
THEY, WE JUST DON'T LIKE THAT YOU HAVE THESE TWO HOMES SITTING OUT HERE.
IT NEVER, NEVER LAND VERSUS THE REST OF THE DEVELOPMENT THAT IS AROUND THE CUL-DE-SAC THAT, THAT THEY HAVE.
SO I MEAN, I THINK GOING WITH WHAT JEFF SAYS, I MEAN OUR POSITION WAS, UM, YOU KNOW, WE APPROVE THE TENTATIVE PLAN CONSIDERING WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL THE STEEP SLOPE ISSUES ARE RESOLVED AND ALL THAT OPEN SPACE ISSUES.
WELL, BUT THAT GOES BACK TO, AS JEFF SAYS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE MORE OF AN, YOU KNOW, DO YOU MEET THE REQUIREMENTS SET FORTH BY THE ORDINANCES, THE CONDITIONS ZONING, THE TE AND WHAT WE COULD SAY, WELL WE JUST DON'T LIKE THE DEVELOPMENT PERIOD AND SAY NO.
WELL THAT'S KIND OF LIKE NOT WELL WE'VE DONE THAT THOUGH IN THE PAST.
WE HAVE DONE THAT WELL AND WE HAVE IN PAST HISTORY.
AND, AND SO, SO YOU KNOW, I THINK WE, I THINK PROBABLY YOU'RE RIGHT.
I THINK ALL OF US WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THOSE TWO HOUSES SIT DOWN THAT ROAD, YOU KNOW, ACCESS TO IT WITH FIRE AND ALL.
BUT WE STILL SAID, OKAY, MAYBE NEXT, MAYBE WE JUST NEED TO BUILD A LITTLE PUFFER NEXT TIME.
AND UH, AND, AND WE COULD HAVE SAID NO TO THAT.
IF WE WANT TO GO THAT, THAT DIRECTION.
IT WAS CRAZY TO HAVE THOSE TWO HOMES WITH THAT.
YEAH, DEFINITELY FRESH SHARE, YOUR HONOR.
I MEAN, WHO'S GOING WANT TO DRIVE ALL THE WAY AROUND THERE TO GET TO YOUR HOUSE? I MEAN, WE COULD HAVE GONE, YOU KNOW, AND AT 2020 IT'S, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY MAKES AND, AND, AND I JUST DON'T WANT TO BE, I JUST DON'T WANT THIS BOARD TO GET A REPUTATION OF WE PASS IT.
SO IF I, IF I COULD THAT, I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THE WAY YOU KNOW THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IS BUILT IS YOU SAY WHAT YOUR REQUIREMENTS ARE AHEAD OF TIME.
AND THEN OUR JOB IS REALLY TO SAY WITH THE CONSULTANT'S ADVICE, YOU KNOW, DID THIS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS? DO WE THINK IT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS? SO IN THIS INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, I WOULD ASK, DO WE NEED TO MAKE OUR STEEP SLOPE REQUIREMENTS MORE RIGOROUS IF THAT'S THE TYPE OF OUTCOME YOU'RE TRYING TO AVOID.
BUT YOU CAN'T DO IT ON THE SPOT WHEN YOU'RE REACTING.
BUT WE COULD HAVE STILL NOT APPROVED THAT JUST BECAUSE JUST LIKE YOU SAID, KELLY DIDN'T LIKE JUST THE LOOKS OF IT.
WHICH, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, NOT TO INTERPRET THE BOARD, BUT LIKE THEY PROBABLY IT SOUNDS LIKE, WOULDN'T HAVE A LOT OF LEGAL GROUND TO MAKE A FULL ON DENIAL.
I'M SURE ZACH WOULD'VE TOLD US, TIME IS MONEY FOR A DEVELOPER AND TABLING, LET ME, LET ME DIAL ON BACK A LITTLE BIT.
WE DID MAKE OUR STEEP SLOPE REQUIREMENTS MORE RESTRICTIVE AS MUCH AS WE CAN.
WE WENT FROM BEING 15%, ANYTHING OVER 15% WAS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
NOW IS ANYTHING OVER 25 IS A VARIANCE THAT CREATES A WHOLE NEW BURDEN OF EVIDENCE AND PROOF THAT FALLS MORE ONTO THE PROPERTY OWNER TO SAY, I CAN'T DEVELOP MY PROPERTY ANY OTHER WAY UNLESS YOU ALLOW ME TO BUILD IN THESE 25% OR GREATER CHEAP SLOPES.
UNFORTUNATELY, EVERYTHING HERE IS 15% NOT DOESN'T RISE THE LEVEL OF 25%.
SO THERE, TO COMPLETELY RESTRICT IT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOVE 15% IS A VARIANCE IS UNDULY RESTRICTED.
WE JUST LEGALLY WE COULDN'T CROSS THAT BAR.
WE, WE COULD CHANGE IT, BUT WE WOULD PROBABLY GET OVERTURNED AT EVERY WHAT THEY TOOK.
AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD TRY.
IF, IF THAT BECOMES AN, IF THAT BECOMES AN ISSUE.
SECONDLY, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK THAT THERE'S, THERE'S A FINE LINE BETWEEN BEING THE ADMINISTRATIVE SIDE OF IT AND THE CREATIVE SIDE OF IT.
WE WANT TO DENY THESE THINGS BASED ON, WELL THE BOARD DOESN'T LIKE IT
[00:50:01]
OR WE DON'T LIKE IT.WE HAVE TO TAKE A STEP BACK BEYOND SAYING WE LIKE IT OR WE DON'T LIKE IT.
THE BOARD TOOK IT TO SAY, WE, AND THIS IS WHAT BILL SAID, WE DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE DISTURBING STEEP SLOPES IN OUR TOWNSHIP.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE HAD THOSE SAME THOUGHTS.
YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO, BUT DON'T SECOND GUESS YOURSELF OVER MAKING A RECOMMENDATION ON A BUY RIGHT PLAN THAT YOU PUT GOOD CONDITIONS ON AND YOU PUT RESTRICTIVE CONDITIONS ON, YOU DID ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT THING.
COULD YOU HAVE DONE MORE? CERTAINLY YOU COULD ALWAYS DO MORE, BUT YOU ARE WALKING THAT FINE LINE BETWEEN SAYING, I WANT YOU TO DO THIS AND YOU'RE NOT BEING AN ADVISORY BOARD ANYMORE.
AND YOU'RE CROSSING THAT LINE LEGALLY AND GIVING A DEVELOPER MORE FUEL FOR WHEN THEY SUE US IF SOMEONE WERE TO TURN THEM DOWN.
BUT WE, WE APPROVED THEM TWICE.
SO THAT JUST CONCERNS ME A LITTLE BIT THAT WE'RE MAYBE A LITTLE TOO AGREEABLE.
IS THAT THE RIGHT WORD TO SOME OF THESE DEVELOPERS? DO WE NEED TO BE A LITTLE TOUGHER BEFORE IT GETS TO, YOU KNOW, LET, I'M NOT, I UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ADMINISTRATIVE AND THE, AND THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO ACTUALLY MAKE THE DECISION.
BUT, BUT IT JUST, WE, IT'S TWICE NOW WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT THAT WE WERE BY THE BOARD OVERTURNED, IF THAT THE RIGHT WORD OVERTURNED OR OUR RECOMMENDATION WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE WAS, SO THAT JUST CONCERNS ME A LITTLE BIT THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT, AGAIN, I DON'T WANT THAT THIS TO GET A REPUTATION THAT WE ARE PASSING EVERYBODY.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE ARE, BUT I JUST WONDER IF BILL OR ONE OF THOSE GUYS SAID AFTER THE MEETING, BOY, I WISH I HAD, YOU KNOW, AND I'M NOT SAYING HE DID, BUT I, HOW'D THEY APPROVE THIS? WHY'D THEY ALLOW THAT? YOU KNOW, I MEAN WE, WE COULD ALSO, YOU KNOW, THE BOARD HAS TO REVIEW A LOT OF THINGS ON THEIR MEETINGS.
AND WE DON'T HAVE TO, I UNDERSTAND THE NPC LAW, WE DON'T HAVE TO RECOMMEND CORRECT ANYTHING.
RIGHT? AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD CARRY OUR, OUR SILENCE COULD CARRY SOME, WE'RE WE'RE GETTING WAY TOO OFF TRACK FOR BEING A PLANNING COMMISSION.
LET ME BE, BE PERFECTLY FRANK.
ALRIGHT? YOUR JOB IS TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
I I IF YOU DON'T, IF YOU DON'T WANNA MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, DON'T MAKE A RECOMMENDATION OR MAKE A NEGATIVE RECOMMENDATION, THAT'S FINE.
BUT FOR EVERY NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE RECOMMENDATION, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MAY GO ON THE OTHER WAY BECAUSE THEY KNOW LEGALLY THEY HAVE TO PASS SOMETHING.
RIGHT? AND THIS IS A, HELENE EVEN SAID IT LAST NIGHT, THIS IS A BUY RIGHT PLAN.
IF, IF IT COMES TO A VOTE AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TURNS IT DOWN BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T REMOVE THE LAST TWO HOUSES, RIGHT? MORE THAN LIKELY WE'RE GONNA GET TAKEN TO COURT AND MORE THAN LIKELY WE'RE GOING TO LOSE.
BUT, AND THERE'S NO REASON, THERE'S NO REASON TO BE, TO SECOND GUESS YOURSELF OR TO BE HARD ON PEOPLE BECAUSE OUR RULES ARE WHAT OUR RULES ARE, AND WE TRY TO WORK WITHIN THOSE RULES.
THAT'S MY JOB, IS TO WORK WITHIN THOSE RULES TO GET WHAT'S BENEFICIAL FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
YET IT'S 14 HOUSES AND THAT'S NOT GREAT, BUT IT'S THE LEAST DENT DEVELOPMENT YOU COULD PUT THERE.
YOU COULD PUT TOWNHOUSES THERE.
THEY COULD HAVE COME IN WITH SOMETHING ELSE.
WELL, IN THAT, IN, IN THAT ARGUMENT THEN, SO IF, WHAT WAS THE DEVELOPER'S REACTION TO REMOVING THOSE? DID THEY GIVE ANY REACTION? NO.
THEY WALKED, THEY SAID, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND THEY LEFT.
BUT MY GUESS IS THAT THEY'RE EITHER ONE OF TWO THINGS.
THE BOARD HAS VERY LITTLE LATITUDE.
YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE LATITUDE TO SAY NO TO ANYTHING.
IT'S JUST THE WAY LAND DEVELOPMENT WORKS IN PENNSYLVANIA.
IF SOMETHING ZONES FOR SOMETHING, YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE LATITUDE TO SAY, NO.
THE BOARD EXERCISED THEIR ONLY AUTHORITY LAST NIGHT BY JUST DELAYING IT.
DELAYING IT COSTS MONEY FOR A DEVELOPER.
NOT THIS ONE VERY MUCH BECAUSE IT'S OWNED BY A FAMILY TRUST AND THEY'RE JUST CARRYING IT.
THERE JUST MEANS THEY'RE NOT GETTING THEIR CHECK SOONER FOR TOLL BROTHERS, FOR ANY OF THE OTHER DEVELOPERS.
AND I HATE TO PICK ON THEM, BUT WHEN THEY COME IN WITH DEVELOPMENT, THE LONGER WE TAKE TO, TO APPROVE SOMETHING, THE MORE CARRYING COSTS THEY HAVE.
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT DAVID IS, IS SO KERNER IS SO URGING US TO GET THIS STUFF DONE.
NOT THAT WE'RE THE ONE HOLDING IT UP, BUT BECAUSE HIS CARRYING COSTS FOR THAT PROPERTY AND HIS DEVELOPMENT COSTS ARE JUST CLIMBING BECAUSE HE'S NOT BUILDING ANYTHING.
SO THEY EXERCISE THEIR ONLY REAL POWER IN THAT SITUATION.
WELL, AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, AM I RIGHT TO THINK OR AM I OFF BASE TO THINK THAT WE APPROVED THAT TWICE AND THEY TURNED IT DOWN TO US? IS THAT A LEGITIMATE THOUGHT OR AM I OVERSTEPPING? NO, NO.
THEY DIDN'T TURN IT DOWN WELL.
BUT THEY DIDN'T APPROVE IT AFTER WE RECOMMENDED IT BE APPROVED.
SO IS THAT, IS THAT A CONCERN OR NO? I, I DON'T THINK IT'S A CONCERN.
I THINK IT'S SOMETHING OF NOTE.
I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND.
BUT LOOKING AT THE FLIP SIDE, YOU VOTED TO DENY AUDUBON LAND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENTS AT LEAST TWICE, MAYBE THREE TIMES.
SO IT'S, IT'S ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
[00:55:01]
THE BOARD DON'T HAVE TO AGREE.YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR WHAT THIS PLANNING COMMISSION IS.
YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE BEST RECOMMENDATION THAT YOU CAN.
I DON'T WANT IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S OVER.
UM, BY THE WAY, I'M GLAD THAT WE MADE THE MOTION WE DID ON THOSE DEPARTMENTS.
I MEAN, WHEN YOU STAND THERE AT THE LANDSCAPER ON ONE 13 AND LOOK DOWN, IT LOOKS LIKE THE SKYLINE OF PHILADELPHIA.
SO, SO THEY ALSO HAD, UM, UPLL, THEY GOT THEIR WAIVER OF LAND DEVELOPMENT AND, UH, QUEST GOT THEIR MINOR SUBDIVISION.
SO THOSE WERE THE THREE THINGS THAT WE HAD FROM THE LAST SPLIT MEETING THAT CARRIED OVER TO THIS MEETING.
JEFF, YOU GOOD WITH THE AGENDA? FUTURE, YOU? YEAH, WE'LL SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT.
WE'LL HAVE A, WE'LL DETERMINE THAT.
THE PUBLIC HAVE ANYTHING? NOTHING.
I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.