* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] UH, GOOD [CALL TO ORDER / APPROVE JANUARY 7, 2026 AGENDA] EVENING AND WELCOME EVERYBODY TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FOR UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP. UH, MY NAME IS ZACH SEVERSON. I'M THE SOLICITOR FOR THE TOWNSHIP. UH, I WILL TAKE THE LEAD TONIGHT WITH THE MEETING, UH, WHILE THE BOARD REORGANIZES AND ELECT A CHAIRPERSON, VICE CHAIRPERSON, SECRETARY AND ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE. UH, SO BEFORE I HAND IT OVER TO WHOEVER BECOMES THE, THE CHAIRMAN OR THE CHAIRPERSON FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, I'LL ASK ARE THERE ANY NOMINATIONS FOR THE CHAIR? I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE OUR EXISTING CHAIR POSITION AGAIN. I'LL SECOND THAT. ALRIGHT, I HAVE A NOMINATION AND A SECOND. UH, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. A AYE. ALL. WELL, TOM, I WILL RELUCTANTLY HAND OVER MY DUTIES. MUST BE ALREADY, YOU CAN CONDUCT THE REST OF THE MEETING. YEAH, HONOR YOU GET A PAYCHECK FOR THAT LITTLE BIT. UH, I THINK ABOUT 10 CENTS. TOM, TOM, TOM PASSES 10 CENTS FOR CHECK. AND THANK YOU GUYS FOR, UM, GIVING ME THIS, UH, CHAIRSHIP AGAIN FOR ANOTHER YEAR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALL YOU. THANK YOU. UM, SO WE GOTTA, UH, VOTE FOR VICE CHAIR AND THAT'S CURRENTLY BOB. UM, AND I'LL NOMINATE BOB AGAIN FOR VICE CHAIR. IF HE WANTS TO ACCEPT ANOTHER YEAR OF IT. I'LL ACCEPT, UNLESS SOMEBODY ELSE WOULD LIKE TO TRY IT OUT. THEY CERTAINLY CANS A LOT TO DO AS LONG AS YOU SHOW UP. SO, I'LL, I MIGHT I NOMINATE BOB FOR VICE CHAIR. I'LL SECOND THAT. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. A VICE CHAIR. ALRIGHT. AND THEN THE, UH, SECRETARY. SECRETARY, UM, JERRY, YOUR CURRENT SECRETARY, I BELIEVE. I BELIEVE SO. AND, UM, WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A CHANGE? I'LL NOMINATE YOU AGAIN. I'M FINE WITH THE ROMANIA IN THAT ROLE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I'LL SECOND IT. ALL IN FAVOR, JERRY BEING SECRETARY AGAIN? AYE, AYE, AYE. FINALLY, THE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL, UH, REPRESENTATIVE. ALRIGHT GUYS, I'VE BEEN THAT FOR, SINCE IT STARTED. 4, 3, 4 YEARS SINCE THE STARTED. UM, IS ANYBODY INTERESTED? I KNOW YOUR WIFE'S ON THERE, SO YOU PROBABLY DON'T WANNA BE ALL THE SHOW . SHE'S FINE LADY TOO BUDDY. VERY INTELLIGENT LADY. VERY INTELLIGENT. SOMEBODY HAS TO STAY ON WITH THE KIDS. YEAH. HI MICHIGAN. UM, I'LL CERTAINLY, UH, TAKE IT ONE MORE YEAR IF SOMEBODY ELSE WANTS TO, UH, UM, THINK ABOUT IT FOR NEXT YEAR. I WAS TALKING TO YOU GUYS ABOUT IT AT THE CHRISTMAS PARTY. SAY, HEY, THINK ABOUT IT FOR NEXT YEAR, BUT I'LL STAY ON ONE MORE YEAR IF SOMEBODY WOULD, YOU KNOW, MAYBE STEP UP NEXT YEAR AND THINK ABOUT IT. IT'S, UM, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT, IT'S, IT'S A TOUGH, IT'S NOT TOUGH, IT'S JUST, IT'S HARD TO, UH, GET THINGS DONE BECAUSE THE STUFF IS REALLY HARD. WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THE PLASTIC BAG THING FOR A WHILE, THEN WE DECIDED TO TABLE IT BECAUSE WE DIDN'T THINK IT WAS THE RIGHT TIMING. UM, WITH THE, UH, WITH THE, UH, I WILL SAY IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE OUTSIDE WORK THAN THE PLANNING COMMISSION REQUIRES. YES. I MEAN, PLANNING COMMISSION, YOU CAN GET THE INFORMATION AND HOPEFULLY YOU READ IT BEFORE TODAY AND, YOU KNOW, YOU VISIT THE SITE HOPEFULLY AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT THIS REQUIRES ATTENDANCE AT A FEW MORE THINGS DURING THE YEAR. YOU GONNA READ A LITTLE BIT MORE ON SITE STUFF, STUDY AND RESEARCH THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT. SO, SO I, I'M WILLING TO STAY ONE MORE YEAR IF, UH, IF SOMEBODY ELSE WILL THINK ABOUT IT FOR NEXT YEAR, I'D APPRECIATE IT. UM, SO I GUESS I'M NOMINATE MYSELF UNLESS SOMEBODY ELSE WANTS TO DO IT, WHICH IS WE, WE WANT TO GUYS I, I'LL CONSIDER IT FOR NEXT YEAR, BUT I SECOND KEEPING YOU IN PLACE. UM, ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OKAY. SO I'LL DO IT ONE MORE YEAR, JEFF. HUH? OKAY. IT IS A TOUGH GROUP 'CAUSE WE'VE REALLY TRIED TO GET THINGS DONE, BUT IT'S BEEN HARD. IT'S BEEN REALLY TOUGH TO, UM, FIND SOMETHING BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A BUDGET, SO WE DON'T REALLY HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T SAY WE'RE GONNA DO THIS BECAUSE WE HAVE NO WAY PAYING FOR IT. SO, UH, WE HAVE TO USE PARKS OF RECREATION'S BUDGET AND SHE'S NOT REAL HAPPY ABOUT HER BUDGET RIGHT NOW. SO IT'S, UM, IT'S, IT'S A TOUGH, IT'S A TOUGH GROUP. TRY TO GET SOMETHING DONE, BUT, UH, WE GOT A LOT OF IDEAS. IT'S JUST HARD TO GET THINGS DONE. IT REALLY IS TOUGH. SO, UH, WITH THAT, THANK YOU FOR EVERYBODY AND, UH, UH, WELL, JOE AND I WERE, UH, REAPPOINTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR FOUR MORE YEARS ON MONDAY. SO, UH, UM, AND I THINK WE'RE BOTH HAPPY ABOUT THAT. I THINK JOE WAS. SO THANK YOU FOR, UH, TO THE, UH, SUPERVISORS FOR THAT. UM, SO MOVING ON DOWN OUR REGULAR AGENDA THEN, UM, [00:05:01] UH, OUR MEETING, UH, WE NEED TO APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING AND EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO READ IT HERE. AND I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE UNLESS WE HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS. I'LL MAKE THE MOTION. WE APPROVE THE AGENDA. I'LL SECOND. KEVIN SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? ALRIGHT, THE AGENDA IS HAVE BEEN APPROVED. SO, UH, THE NEXT ISSUE WOULD BE PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS. SO IF ANYBODY'S HERE ON ANY SUBJECT THAT IS NOT COVERED IN OUR CURRENT AGENDA, WHICH YOU SHOULD HAVE A COPY, IT'S IN THE BACK. UM, PLEASE COME UP NOW. IF NOT, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD, NOT HEARING ANY, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD. SO OUR FIRST [GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS] UH, THING TO TALK ABOUT JEFF, RIGHT, IS THE GENERAL DISCUSSION IS APPROVING THE MINUTES FROM DECEMBER THE THIRD. YES. UH, WHICH ARE ATTACHED. UH, ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, CORRECTIONS, DELETIONS FOR DECEMBER 3RD. I WASN'T THERE, BUT I LIKED THE GOALS YOU GUYS WANTED DONE. , I'LL TAKE A MOTION THEN IF THERE HAS ANY, UH, OBJECTIONS ARE, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE APPROVE AND MINUTES FROM DECEMBER 3RD. WELL, THANK YOU. SECOND. I'LL SECOND THAT. JERRY. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? A. AYE. ALL RIGHT, THEN WE GOT NEW PLAN SUBMISSIONS. WHAT IS THAT JEFFERSON? WELL, I'M TRYING TO SORT OF TOE THE LINE A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN I HAVE IN THE PAST. TYPICALLY, THE MUNICIPALITY'S PLANNING CODE, WELL, THE MUNICIPALITY'S PLANNING CODE SAYS THAT ALL PLANS ARE ACCEPTED OR ARE THEIR TIME CLOCK STARTS WHEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION ACCEPTS THEM. I HAVE 30 DAYS TO DO THAT AFTER THE PLANS ARE SUBMITTED TO ME. SO LET'S SAY I GET A PLAN TOMORROW, IT WOULD BE ON THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA TO SHOW IT TO YOU AND TO GENERALLY SAY THE PLAN MEETS THE SPECIFICATIONS FOR A, YOU KNOW, A SUBMISSION. IT'S NOT A REVIEW, IT'S NOT A JUDGMENT. WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION. IT'S NOT GOING TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. IT REALLY IS JUST LETTING YOU KNOW THAT THESE PLANS COME IN. IT, IT IS MORE OF A WAY OF DOING IT FOR THE PUBLIC THAN FOR YOU. I GET YOUR EMAIL, YOU'LL GET MY EMAIL TOMORROW WITH THESE PLANS AND ALL OF THE DATA AND ALL OF THE STUFF WE HAVE WITH IT. UM, YOU'LL GET THAT LIKE YOU TYPICALLY DO TOMORROW. UM, IF JUST A WAY TO SORT OF ON THE RECORD, START THE CLOCK. NOT THAT EITHER OF THESE APPLICATIONS ARE KEEPING ME TO THE MPC CLOCK, BUT AT LEAST THIS WAY WE HAVE A PUBLIC RECORD OF IT AT A MEETING. NOW, THE, THE, UH, MENNONITE ROAD, THAT'S THE ONE THAT, UH, THAT'S BEEN OUT THERE FOR A WHILE, HAS IT? IT IS. THIS IS THE, THE PRELIMINARY, PRELIMINARY SLASH FINAL DAY. ONE FINAL. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS HAVE THAT CONCERN OF WHAT THE PLANS ARE. SO WE REALLY PRELIMINARY SLASH FINAL, THEY HAD COME IN FOR, THEY HAVE A TENTATIVE APPROVAL FOR THE NINE LOTS AS IT'S SORT OF SHOWN HERE. I THINK IT'S GENERALLY THE SAME CONFIGURATION. UM, THEN, UM, THEY CAME IN FOR A 16 LOTS SUBDIVISION WHEN THEY WERE TRYING TO TRANSFER DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS. THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WAS NOT A FAN OF IT, DID NOT WANT THAT KIND OF DENSITY BACK THERE. KIND OF DECIDED THAT THEY WERE GONNA FIGHT THEM A LITTLE BIT ON IT. THE APPLICANT DECIDED TO PULL BACK THAT APPLICATION AND HAS NOW RESUBMITTED FOR THE NINE LOTS THAT THEY WERE ORIGINALLY APPROVED FOR AT THE TENANT LEVEL. THIS, THIS IS THE PRELIMINARY WHERE WE GET INTO MORE OF THE HARD ENGINEERING, THE STORMWATER, ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF. IS THIS THE ONE THAT HAS THE EXISTING HOME ON IT? THE GUY THAT OWNS THE PROPERTY OR HE HAS A HOME ALREADY ON IT? THERE, THERE, THERE WAS, THERE IS A HOME THAT'S ON THE, THE, THE TRAP ROAD SIDE OF IT. OKAY. THE HOME THAT'S ON THE MENNONITE ROADSIDE, THAT'S ACTUALLY 4 25 MINUTE ROAD. THAT HOUSE IS NOT PART OF IT THAT HAPPENED, THAT LANDOWNER'S NOT PART OF THIS APPLICATION. OKAY. AND THEN THE SECOND ONE YOU'VE ACTUALLY GONE THROUGH THROUGH, AND YOU'VE GIVEN IT A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL. IT'S THE HASSON ROAD 14 LOT SUBDIVISION. THE BOARD PUSHED BACK A LITTLE BIT ON THE CONFIGURATION ON SOME OF THE STEEP SLOPE ISSUES. THEIR ENGINEER DECIDED AND THEIR AT, THEIR OWNER DECIDED TO PULL IT BACK AND TO REDESIGN IT. SO WHEN THEY SAID THEY WERE GONNA DO THAT, I SAID, YOU NEED TO GET A NEW RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION AT THAT POINT THEN, BECAUSE, SO THIS IS BACK TO PRELIMINARY? NO, THIS IS BACK TO TENANT. TENTATIVE. OKAY. SO AGAIN, THIS JUST SORT, WE'LL START THE PROCESS FOR THIS, FOR THIS APPLICATE RESTART THE PROCESS FOR THIS APPLICATION. WE'LL GET, I'LL GET IT OUT TO JEN AND EVERYBODY TOMORROW. THEY'LL START REVIEWING IT AND THEY'LL BE ON A FUTURE AGENDA, I WOULD SAY MID-FEBRUARY, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. OKAY. MOST LIKELY DEPENDING ON, ON HOW THE REVIEWS GO. UM, SO AGAIN, IT'S, IT IS REALLY JUST TO INTRODUCE AND, AND PUT SOMETHING ON THE RECORD THAT, THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS, FROM MY STANDPOINT, ACCEPTED THE PLANS. I DON'T THINK, ZACH, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO MAKE AN OFFICIAL VOTE, DO WE? NO, NO. IT, I MEAN, IT, I I, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE TIME RUNS FROM THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AFTER THEY'VE BEEN SUBMITTED, OR 30 [00:10:01] DAYS IF IT'S, IF IT OCCURS MORE THAN 30 DAYS THEREAFTER. SO I, I AGREE. I THINK IT'S GOOD TO MEMORIALIZE THAT THE PLAN HAS BEEN ACCEPTED AND THAT IT'S THE CLOCK'S RUNNING. BUT EVEN IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION DIDN'T ACCEPT IT, THE CLOCK WOULD START TO RUN. SO YEAH. MINUTES. OKAY. SO THAT'S ALL JUST, I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY ANSWERS FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE AT THIS POINT OR ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE MAY HAVE AT THIS POINT. JUST BECAUSE WE'VE JUST GOTTEN 'EM IN THE HAS ROAD. WAS THE SUPERVISORS DIDN'T LIKE THE SLOPES. THAT WAS THEIR BIG THING THAT YES, THERE WERE FOUR. I DON'T REMEMBER THEM, BUT THERE WERE FOUR THINGS. THE PLANNING COMMISSION SPECIFICALLY SAID WE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT. OKAY. THEY AGREED WITH THOSE FOUR CONCERNS AND THEY, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW. THERE WAS SORT OF A, A DENIAL BUT THEN NOT A DENIAL. AND THEN IT WAS A LITTLE COMPLICATED THERE FOR A LITTLE WHILE, BUT THEY BASICALLY PULLED THE APPLICATION OFF. OKAY. AND SAID, WE'RE GONNA DO SOME REDESIGN. ALRIGHT. AND THIS IS THEIR REDESIGN AT THIS POINT. ALRIGHT. SO THAT MOVES US TO, UH, TONIGHT, UH, WE HAVE LY STREET TOWNHOUSE. OH, ACTUALLY WE NEVER, WE DIDN'T ASK FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. OH. ON THOSE ISSUES, ON THOSE TWO THINGS. WELL, IF THERE ARE PEOPLE HERE THAT WANT TO MAKE A PUBLIC COUNT, IT PROBABLY MAKES SENSE TO JUST HAVE THEM TALK NOW. BUT PLEASE NOTE THE A I DON'T BELIEVE THE APPLICANT'S IN THE ROOM TONIGHT. NO, WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY CONSIDERING THE PLANS. IF YOU GUYS WANT TO STAND UP AND GIVE SOME BRIEF REMARKS, THAT'S FINE. BUT THIS IS NOT THERE, THERE WILL BE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY IN THE FUTURE FOR YOU. SO THIS IS THE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FROM PASSIVE AND MENNONITE ROAD. PASSIVE AND MENNONITE ROAD. IF ANYONE'S HERE, JUST TO RESPECT THE FACT THAT YOU CAME OUT TONIGHT. IF, IF, IF ANYONE'S INTERESTED IN MAKING A COMMENT, FEEL FREE TO STEP UP. JUST PLEASE GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. YEP. YEAH, WE GOT TO CHANGE THE ORIENTATION. HERE WE WENT. THE CONFUSION. ALRIGHT, WELL THANKS FOR HEARING, HEARING. I'LL BE THIS ONE BRIEF. UM, AND I APPRECIATE THE, THE BUILDER COMING BACK AND, AND REDRAWING SOME OF THE, THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT THERE. UM, JUST LOOKING AT THE LATEST DEVELOPMENT, I GUESS YOU GUYS CHANGED THE SLIDE THERE, BUT, UM, IS THE BOTTOM RIGHT HAND CORNER GREEN LOT THREE WAS, UM, REORIENTED. YOU CAN IMAGINE DRIVING THROUGH YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND SOMEBODY TAKES THEIR HOUSE AND ROTATES IT BACKWARDS. 180. THAT WAS ONE OF THE CONCERNS. UM, THEY TRY TO PUT IN A, A KIND OF A, A BUSH AREA OR AN EASEMENT, AN AREA, BUT HOWEVER, IT'S ONLY LOOKING LIKE 15 FEET AND YOU CAN'T GET A TREE IN THAT AREA. SO I LIKE, I GUESS AS WE'RE REVIEWING THIS OR YOU REVIEWING THAT, I DO, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE GONNA PUT IN AN EASEMENT FOR TREES AND SHRUBS BETWEEN OUR DEVELOPMENTS, I THINK BEING ABLE TO GET A TREE OR TWO IN THERE IS IMPORTANT JUST FIRE FIRE BECAUSE THIS THING'S A LITTLE TOUGH. WHICH S'S LOT THREE. YEAH, IT'S UM, I'M TRYING TO BLOW THAT UP. THERE WE GO. OH GEEZ. YEAH, IT'S, UH, RIGHT THERE THAT LOT THERE. OKAY. BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S A, THERE'S A HOUSE RIGHT BEHIND IT WHERE THEY'VE PUT THAT TREE, THE TREE BUNK. RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE HOUSES OBVIOUSLY ON HOUSE ON WILSON WAY THAT ARE, EVERYTHING'S TIED UP AGAIN. SO THE CORNER OF THIS WHOLE PROPERTY ACTUALLY HITS WILSON WAY ROAD, WHICH IS THE WHOLE ODDITY OF THIS WHOLE THING. OH, THAT LITTLE CORNER UP THERE. YEAH. SEE THE ROAD . SO THAT'S WHERE THE HOUSE WOULD LOOK BACKWARDS, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. UH, SO THEY TRY TO ADDRESS THAT, THEN THEY PUT IN BUSHES AND THERE'S NO, THERE'S ONE THE WHOLE AREA THAT THERE'S ONE TREE. SO THERE'S REALLY NOT, I DON'T SOLVING THE PROBLEM. UM, THAT'S, UH, ONE ITEM. UH, SO I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND YOUR, YOUR CONCERN. SO YOU'RE, YOU ARE IN THAT LOT THERE ON WILSON, THE ONE RIGHT NEXT TO IT, CORRECT? YEAH. AND, AND SO YOU ARE LOOKING, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE CONCERNED OR YOU'RE COMMENT NOW YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE BACK OF THIS PLACE. WELL AS YOU'RE LIKE DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD, ANYBODY LOOKING AT DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD RIGHT. IS GONNA SEE THIS SOMEBODY'S HOUSE. HOUSE. WHY IS THAT HOUSE BACKWARDS, RIGHT? YEAH. YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN WILSON, YOU'RE SAYING YOU'RE GONNA SEE BACK OFF TO THE RIGHT. YOU'RE GONNA SEE THE BACK OF THIS HOUSE, RIGHT. AND FOR SUSPICION THE CORRECTLY, AND I ASSUME THAT'S A VEB AS WELL AS SHRUBBERY OR WE DON'T REALLY, AGAIN, THIS IS TENSION. YEAH. SO, AND WE'RE GETTING INTO THE WEEDS OF THE PLANS WE DON'T NEED TO GET INTO RIGHT NOW. NOBODY'S LOOKED AT THE LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT HASN'T LOOKED AT IT. JEN HASN'T EVEN SEEN THIS YET. I DON'T THINK SO. YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THIS IS JUST TENANTS. I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT HOUSE HE WAS REFERRING TO. YEAH, I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT LAW THREE WAS. THAT'S ALL. IT'S A PRETTY PICTURE. OKAY. SO I GUESS OUR, OUR COMMENT TO YOU, SIR WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, WHEN THIS COMES YOU NEED TO COME BACK. YEAH, OF COURSE. YEAH. MAYBE I, SHOULD WE JUST TABLE ALL THIS THEN, OR IS IT YEAH, BECAUSE WE, THERE'S NO NOTHING FOR US. WE MAKE WHATEVER COMMENTS YOU WANT. WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. WE CAN'T, UM, ALRIGHT. THE DEVELOPER'S NOT HERE. THEIR ENGINEER'S NOT HERE. SO THEY, THEY CAN'T ANSWER QUESTIONS. WE CAN'T ANSWER QUESTIONS. FEEL FREE TO MAKE ANY COMMENTS FOR OR AGAINST THE PROJECT IF YOU WANT, BUT, YOU KNOW, I BE ON THE RECORD. BUT YEAH, [00:15:01] I'LL JUST, THERE'S THE COMMENTS UP THERE AND I'M AGAIN, APPRECIATE BEING QUICK HERE. AND, UM, THE, UH, PAST THAT AREA, THERE'S A SWAMP LAND THAT, UM, IS VE YOU KNOW, IS IS HOME TO QUITE A BIT OF LOT WILDLIFE. UM, SO WE, WE MOVED IN OUR DEVELOPMENT A LITTLE OVER 10 YEARS AGO. I THINK IT'S BEEN A WHILE. THE FIRST YEAR IT WAS A, A BIBLICAL AMOUNT OF FROGS THAT, THAT TRAVERSED, UH, INTO THE STREETS. LIKE THERE WAS WAVES OF FROGS. I KNOW IT SOUNDS KIND OF CRAZY. YOU LOOK DOWN THE STREET. SOUNDS LIKE A PLANE. OH MY GOD. IT WAS, IT WAS NUTS. LIKE YOU LOOK IN THE SEWER GREENS, THERE WAS FROGS THIS DEEP IN THE SEWERS, LIKE, SO WE DEFINITELY DISTURB SOME WILDLIFE. THE ECOLOGICAL SYSTEM. YEAH. UM, SO I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S WORTHWHILE FOR SOME SORT OF WILDLIFE STUDY OR NOT BECAUSE AS YOU TAKE MORE LAND AWAY, I MEAN THERE'S STILL FROGS, BUT THERE'S NOT WAVES OF FULL FROGS IN THE ROAD FOR ABOUT THREE OR FOUR DAYS. UM, THAT'S, UH, 0.2. UM, COULD YOU JUST POINT OUT WHERE THAT SWAMP BERRY IS AT AGAIN? SO WE JUST, JUST SO WE HAVE OUR ORIENTATION SWAMP LAND. YEAH. THIS, THIS RIGHT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. RIGHT. SO IF YOU HAD, UH, I DUNNO WHAT DIRECTION THIS IS, BUT IF THAT'S NORTH IT'S, IT'S THAT WAY. LIKE MAYBE A 30, 40 YARDS. OKAY. YEAH, THERE'S A LITTLE MORE FROGS. THERE WAS GRAY, GRAY TREE FROG. I MEAN THE WHOLE ASSORTMENT OF, OF INTEREST IN WILDLIFE THAT YOU WOULD SEE JUST IN THE STREETS FOR ABOUT THREE OR FOUR DAYS, UM, ONCE WE MOVED IN THAT FIRST SUMMER. UM, YEAH. AND THEN THE HIDDEN RETENTION AREAS AGAIN, I GUESS WE'LL, WE'LL HEAR MORE ABOUT THEM VERSUS ACTUALLY A REAL RETENTION POND. I'M NOT SURE IF YOU GUYS HAVE, I MEAN I'M JUST DOING A LOT OF RESEARCH TODAY JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THESE HIDDEN RETENTION PONDS AND OR RETENTION AREAS VERSUS ACTUALLY A REAL RETENTION AREA. I'M ASSUMING OTHER DEVELOPMENTS HAVE THESE, BUT I, I WAS TRYING TO DO A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH. THAT WAS MY OTHER CONCERN IF THESE ARE REALLY EFFECTIVE AND NOT FOR ORDER RETENTION VERSUS A REAL RETENTION POND. SO, WELL, IN REFERENCE TO THE ISSUE WITH THE FROGS, I'D SAY THE DEER IS ALSO ANOTHER ISSUE. I MEAN, DEER ARE RUNNING ALL OVER THE PLACE JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE KICKED OUT OF THEIR HABITAT. SO THIS IS JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME ASSURANCES FOR THE FUTURE TILL THIS COMES BACK TO US. TRUST ME, JEN, HERE IS OUR WATER. SHE'LL BE ALL OVER THAT THING, MAKING SURE THAT IT'S RIGHT AND WHATEVER THEY PRESENT, SHE'LL BE ALL OVER. COOL. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE? AGAIN, WE CAN'T, WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT YOU SEE, SO WE REALLY CAN'T GIVE YOU ANY, BUT YOU CAN CERTAINLY BE ON THE RECORD WITH A COMMENT IF YOU WANT TO BE ON EITHER ONE OF THOSE TWO, UH, DEVELOPMENTS OR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS. IF NOT, WE'RE REAL GOOD. I'LL MOVE [APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON JANUARY 7, 2026] ON TO, UH, BECAUSE WE DO HAVE, UH, WE TALK ABOUT A BILLION STREET TOWN BOATS. JEFF? YES. ACTUALLY I'M GONNA HAND IT OFF TO YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME UP TOO, BUT, UM, OH, OKAY. I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS ANYBODY GIFT FROM ME. GOOD EVENING. GOOD EVENING. WE ARE, UM, FRANCIS JULIO, I'M PRINCIPAL OF THIS SITUATION, LIVE IN PHOENIXVILLE. UM, I REVIEWED THE SITUATION, BUT WE, LET'S SAY THIS, I'M NOT AGAINST GETTING THIS PAID. I'VE ALREADY STARTED BY PUTTING $5,000 ON THE BILL. WE NEVER GOT A NOTICE THAT THE TOWNSHIP WAS PAYING OUR BILLS. SO 1, 1, 1 SECOND IF I CAN JUST, I THINK I NEED TO GIVE THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER BACKGROUND ON WHAT'S GOING. THAT WOULD BE VERY GOOD. SO, UH, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, MR. FOIA, WHEN, WHEN WAS THIS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED? THIS WAS SUBMITTED BACK IN, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME WITH THE ECHO LIKE, BUT GO AHEAD. SORRY. THE ACOUSTICS AREN'T GREAT IN THE ROOM. UM, THIS WAS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED BACK IN WHAT, 2021 WE STARTED BACK IN 21. THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. SO IN 2021 THIS APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED AND ESCROW WAS INITIALLY PAID WITH THE APPLICATION AS IS REQUIRED. PROFESSIONAL REVIEW OCCURRED. UM, IT IT'S, IT'S BEEN AROUND, IT'S BEEN FLOATING AROUND FOR QUITE A WHILE. THE ACCOUNT FOR THE ESCROW FUND HAS GONE TO THE NEGATIVE AND MR. POLIO OWED A A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT BALANCE OF MONEY. UM, WE ALERTED MR. POLIO TO THAT FACT. UM, AND AT THIS POINT, THE TOWNSHIP, BASED ON THE, THAT PASSING DUE BALANCE NOT HAVING BEEN PAID, WE WITHDREW THE UNLIMITED WAIVER THAT HAD BEEN SUBMITTED WITH THE APPLICATION BACK IN 2021. SO THIS APPLICATION IS NOW BEFORE YOU TO CONSIDER, UH, I DO UNDERSTAND MR. POLIO MADE A PARTIAL PAYMENT TOWARDS THE, UM, I GUESS THE BACK TO ESCROW FUNDS. UM, AND THEN WE NEEDED A, WE NEED A FURTHER PAYMENT OF THAT AND THE PAYMENT TO GET THE ESCROW ACCOUNT UP TO THE LEVEL THAT IT IS REQUIRED TO BE AT, WHICH I BELIEVE IS $3,000. [00:20:01] IS THAT RIGHT JEFF? ITS $3,000 PLUS 12, BUT, UH, THOUSAND ROUGHLY. AND YOU, AND YOU'VE MADE A PAYMENT OF FIVE. SO I MEAN, AT, AT THIS POINT WE ARE ON A TIME CLOCK IN TERMS OF, OF ACTING ON THE PLAN. UM, IF MR. POLIO CAN COME INTO COMPLIANCE AND, AND BRING THE BACK DUE AMOUNT UP AND, AND BRING THE FUND BACK TO THE LEVEL THAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE AT. I, I DON'T THINK THE TOWNSHIP IS OPPOSED TO A CONTINUED, UH, WAIVER OF THOSE TIMELINES. BUT UNTIL WE GET, UNTIL THOSE FUNDS GET PAID, I THINK WE HAVE TO KEEP THIS ON THE AGENDA FOR ACTION BY THE BEGINNING OF FEBRUARY. AND IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY, WHEN YOU WERE HERE THE LAST TIME, THERE WAS A LOT OF ISSUES THAT WERE DISCUSSED AT THAT TIME. UM, AND THEN OF COURSE THE PROJECT JUST KIND OF WENT AWAY FOR, FOR THE TIME. SO HERE WE ARE. LEMME SAY THIS, I REVIEWED THE BILLS AS BEST I COULD. I HAVE NO PROBLEM PAYING THE ESCROW. YOU GOTTA GET BACK WHERE IT IS. BUT I I HAVE A FAVORITE ASK. WHEN YOU REVIEW THESE BILLS, SUPPOSEDLY YOU HAVE, I LEARNED A HUNDRED DAYS TO OBJECT TO A PARTICULAR BILL. AM I CORRECT ON THAT? CORRECT. UNDER THE MPC, THE TOWNSHIP MAILS YOU THE INVOICES THAT IT RECEIVED FROM MYSELF, FROM JEFF, FROM BRIAN, FROM JEFF THAT ARE SUBMITTED TO THE TOWNSHIP AND THEY'RE PAID FROM THAT ESCROW FUND. THAT'S THE POINT OF HAVING THE ESCROW FUND IN THERE. IT'S SUPPOSED TO PAY FOR OUR TIME TO BE HERE TONIGHT. IT PAYS FOR THEIR EFFORTS TO REVIEW THE PLANS AND PRODUCE THE REVIEW LETTERS. SO ALL OF THAT'S PAID BY THE DEVELOPER. WHAT I ASK FOR IS, IN THE FUTURE HERE, YOU'RE PAYING THE BILL, BUT THE BILLS THAT COME IN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THIS, ARE INTERESTING IN THE SENSE THAT IT SAYS IT NAMES AN INDIVIDUAL, IT SAYS REVIEW AND IT SAYS THIS IS THE FEE. I THINK I SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO THOSE REVIEWS, WHATEVER IT IS. 'CAUSE THAT WOULD BE VERY HANDY IN CORRECTING ANY PROBLEMS GOING IN THE FUTURE. JUST THE WORD NAME BILL, DATE, NAME, BILL DATE, AND THAT GOES THROUGHOUT THIS. THERE'S NO WAY I COULD POSSIBLY CHECK TO SEE EVERYTHING IS WITHIN REASON. SO I'M NOT GONNA GO THERE AT THIS POINT. I'M GONNA BRING IT TO CURRENT AND WE'LL START OVER AND SEE WHERE WE ARE. SO IF THAT'S AN AGREEMENT, JEN AND BRIAN DO ISSUE REVIEW LETTERS. SO WHEN THEY SAY REVIEW, THEY'RE LOOKING AT YOUR PLANS AND THEY'RE PREPARING LETTERS THAT THEY THEN ISSUE YOU. THEY MAIL THEM. I THINK. I DON'T DO YOU ISSUE 'EM TO TIM OR TO JEFF? TO ME TO, TO JEFF. YEAH. AND THEN JEFF PROVIDES YOU WITH A COPY OF THAT AND THAT LISTS ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT THEY'VE IDENTIFIED IN REVIEWING YOUR PLAN AND GIVES YOU A HEADS UP AS TO WHAT FURTHER ISSUES MAY BE AHEAD OF YOU THAT YOU NEED TO GET, UM, OUTSIDE AGENCY APPROVALS, THINGS LIKE THAT PART OF IT. ALL OF THAT GETS PUT INTO THOSE REVIEW LIST. PART OF THE ISSUE WITH THIS AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED ON THE BILLS IS THEIR, HIS PROFESSIONAL HAS REACHED OUT TO US ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS, WHETHER IT'S ME OR WHETHER IT'S JEN, TO SAY, HEY, CAN YOU LOOK AT THIS SKETCH THAT I'VE DONE OF TO ANSWER THIS OR THIS QUESTION OR THAT QUESTION ABOUT LOT ONE ABOUT WHERE OUR DRIVEWAY IS. AND WHILE WE MAY NOT ISSUE A REVIEW LETTER, I'VE SUBMITTED TO ZACH, I THINK JEN SUBMITTED TO ZACH, THE EMAILS THAT WE'VE GONE BACK AND FORTH WITH YOUR PROFESSIONALS ON IT. WE'RE NOT ACTIVELY REVIEWING PLANS THAT WE'VE ALREADY REVIEWED. WE'RE RESPONDING TO YOUR PROFESSIONALS IN MOST OF THIS TIME ARE THE PROFESSIONALS TO THE MATTERS WHICH YOU'RE REFERRING. YES. THEY REACH OUT TO US, WE RESPOND TO THEM. THAT BECOMES BILLABLE TIME AGAINST YOUR ESCROW. AND, AND I HAVE, I HAVE EXPLAINED REPEATEDLY TO YOUR PROFESSIONAL THAT I DON'T WANT SMALL SKETCHES OF JUST THE CORNER ANYMORE. THAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A ZONING HEARING BOARD RELIEF BECAUSE YOU HAVE, YOU CHANGED THE CONFIGURATION OF THE TOWNHOUSE AND BECAUSE YOU'VE CHANGED THE CONFIGURATION OF THE LOT LINES. I NEED AN OVERALL PLAN SHOWING EVERYTHING. I WAS NOT, I HAVE NOT GOTTEN THAT IN OVER A YEAR. SO, AND I THINK I'VE EXPLAINED THAT TO YOU. YOU AND I HAD A CONVERSATION AT THE SIDE HERE AFTER A PLANNING, AFTER A BOARD MEETING ONE DAY WHEN YOU CAME UP AND, AND SPOKE AFTERWARDS. UM, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET THAT FROM HIM TO MOVE FORWARD IN THE PROCESS FOR A LONG TIME NOW. AND WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN THAT. NOW I HAVE TO WORK WITH THEM. I HAVE, WE HAVE SOME PROBLEMS THERE TO, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT AND IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM. NO, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND I THINK WE, I THINK I OFFERED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT THEN. AND I DON'T KNOW WHATEVER HAPPENED THAT THINGS HAPPEN. LIFE HAPPENS. I GET IT. UM, AT THIS POINT FROM A PLANNING STANDPOINT, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS PLAN STANDS IN TERMS OF THE PLAN I'M SHOWING IS THE ORIGINAL 2021 PLAN. CORRECT. WHEN I WENT THROUGH IT, I PROBABLY FOUND FOUR OTHER PLANS THAT, THAT HAVE DIFFERENT ITERATIONS OF THEM, DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS OF THEM. I'M NOT EVEN SURE HOW THIS FITS WITH THE [00:25:01] ZONING HEARING BOARD DECISION ANYMORE. SO I'VE ASKED, I ASKED YOUR PROFESSIONAL TO WITHDRAW THE PLAN AND START OVER. HE DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT. YOU DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT. I, I THINK IT IS, THE PROCESS HAS BECOME JUST TOO MUDDLED FROM A PLAN REVIEW STANDPOINT AT THIS POINT. SO YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AN UP TO DATE PLAN THE DIRECTION WE'RE HEADING AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME SO WE CAN EVALUATE THIS. I, I WOULD LIKE A CLEAN BREAK STOP NOW AND THEN LET'S START COMPLETELY OVER WITH A NEW PLAN. A, A, A NEW ESCROW. GET ONE CLEANED UP. START WITH A NEW ESCROW, DETERMINE HOW IT FITS WITH THE ZONING HEARING BOARD DECISION THAT YOU HAVE IN PLACE AND, AND MOVE FORWARD FROM THERE. BECAUSE I THINK THAT, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S JUST TWO MODELS. I I THE PROCESS, DOES THAT AFFECT THE VARIANCE THAT WAS GRANTED? I, I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT I I I CAN'T EVALUATE THAT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR PLAN IS SHOWING ANYMORE. OKAY. YEAH. SO I, I DON'T THINK THAT WITHDRAWING THE SUBDIVISION LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN WOULD NECESSARILY AFFECT THE VARIANCE, BUT CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE TO THE PLAN N SO WHAT VARIANCE? I BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE, I THINK, I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY A SPECIAL EXEMPT, A SPECIAL EXEMPT SPECIAL EXEMPT. MY, MY, MY APOLOGIES. I I I GET IT. SO THE ZONING RELIEF THAT YOU RECEIVED MAY BE AFFECTED DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH THE PLAN HAS CHANGED. AND WE, WE FRANKLY JUST CAN'T EVALUATE. THERE'S VERY LITTLE CHANGES OTHER THAN THE SIZE OF THE HOUSES. YOU'RE PROBABLY DOWN TO 16 FOOT INSTEAD OF 20 FOOT. AND WE WERE LOOKING AT THE H OH EIGHT ARRANGEMENT. BASICALLY WE WOULD LIKE TO INCORPORATE THE BILLBOARDS INTO THE HOA ASSOCIATION TO BRING FUNDS IN FOR THE FUTURE BECAUSE THAT WAY IT REDUCES THE HOMEOWNER'S COST. SO THEY WOULD BE IN CHARGE OF THE TWO BILLBOARDS. IT WOULD ECONOMICALLY HELP IN TODAY'S WORLD. BUT I'M NOT SURE WHETHER THAT IS ACCEPTABLE BY THE TOWNSHIP OR NOT. AND, AND, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN DISCUSS ONCE WE GET THIS THING DOWN THE ROAD. I THINK YOU'RE YEAH. COMING DOWN TO SPEAKING FOR OUR BOARD HERE, US FOUR GUYS YEAH. YOU WAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT INVOLVED IN ANY OF THAT. THAT'S CORRECT. AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT, I CAN'T, WE CAN'T EVEN COMMENT ON THIS BETWEEN JEFF AND, WELL, UNFORTUNATELY RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE WE'RE AT THIS POSITION, WE ARE ASKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD SO THE BOARD CAN ACT ON THIS PLAN BECAUSE WE'VE, BECAUSE HE DID GIVE US AN UNLIMITED WAIVER, BUT BECAUSE OF THE PAST DUE AMOUNT, BECAUSE THE PLANS HAVEN'T MOVED FORWARD, THE PROJECT HAS STAGNATED SINCE 2001 THAT, THAT WE'RE ASKING THE BOARD AND WE'RE ASKING YOU TO TAKE SOME ACTION AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION AT THIS POINT. OKAY. SO, UH, BUT DO, DO WE KNOW WHAT THAT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. I DON'T KNOW. I I I'VE NEVER, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS, I KNOW THIS HAS NEVER COME UP BEFORE THIS. YEAH. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, I THINK THOUGH, BUT THE PLAN THAT WE HAVE BEFORE, I SAYS ONE THAT YOU GUYS HAD SIGNIFICANT ISSUES WITH YEARS AGO. YES. SO WE PROBABLY WOULD MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD NOT TO APPROVE IT. OR IS IT, YOU KNOW, REINTRODUCE IT TO US. 'CAUSE I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER THE POINT. AGAIN, I THINK IT'S AT THE POINT, MY OPINION, MY RECOMMENDATION TO YOU IS TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO DENY THE PLAN. WE'LL TAKE IT TO THE BOARD AND WE'LL LET THE BOARD DECIDE IF THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE IT AND LET IT HANG OUT THERE OR WHAT THEY WANT TO DO BECAUSE THEY'RE THE DECIDING BODY. UM, I, I THINK AT THIS POINT, TO GET THE PLAN MOVING, AND I, I DON'T LIKE TO DO THIS. I DON'T THINK IT'S A VERY FRIENDLY WAY OF OPERATING BUSINESS, BUT WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO CUT BAIT TO FISH OR WHATEVER THAT TERM IS THAT I CAN'T REMEMBER. WE GOT IT. WE'RE NOT LOSING ANY TIME BECAUSE WE'RE NO, WE'RE NOWHERE ANY TOWN ARE WE? WELL, AGAIN, WE, WE, THIS THIS SPEAKS TO A LARGER ISSUE IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT, THAT JEN AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. WE HAVE A LOT OF ENGINEERS AND A LOT OF APPLICATIONS IN FRONT OF US THAT DRAG THE PROCESS OUT OR HAVE A LOT OF COMMENTS OR, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE OTHER APPLICATION THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ON TONIGHT HAD 120 COMMENTS FOR A TENTATIVE SKETCH LEVEL PLAN. WOW. I SPOKE TO THE ENGINEER OF THAT AND I SAID, YOU CAN'T GO IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND HAVE 120 COMMENTS BECAUSE, AND SAY WE WILL COMPLY TO 120 COMMENTS. THAT'S PUTTING A LOT OF FAITH IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO SAY, OKAY, SURE. WE BELIEVE YOU. YEAH, WE, WE WILL, WE'LL TRUST YOU. RIGHT. AND I, I THINK, AND THAT IT FALLS ON ME THAT I'VE LED A LOT OF THINGS LIKE THAT SORT OF, HEY LOOK, YEAH, WE CAN GET, WE CAN WORK THROUGH THIS AND WE NEED TO STOP DOING THAT. WE NEED TO STOP WORKING THROUGH THINGS AND HOLD THE ENGINEERS AND THE APPLICANTS A LITTLE BIT MORE ACCOUNTABLE TO GET THEIR PLANS DONE IN A TIMELY MANNER, IN A CLEAN MANNER AND USE THEIR QUALITY CONTROL, NOT USING OUR ENGINEER AS THEIR QUALITY CONTROL. AND I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR JEN AT ALL. THIS IS SOLELY MY OPINION ON THAT. BUT IF YOU SAY THAT, WHY DO YOU HAVE THE UNLIMITED? UH, WELL, AGAIN, SOMEONE THAT'S THE UNLIMITED TIME IS INTENDED TO ALLOW AN APPLICANT TO PREVENT A TOWNSHIP FROM ACCEPTING AN APPLICATION [00:30:01] OR THE, THE TIMELINES IN THE MPCO REQUIRE ARE IMPOSED BECAUSE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO KEEP THE TOWNSHIP MOVING ON AN APPLICATION. SO WE REQUEST THE LIMITED WAIVER INITIALLY AND WE'RE USUALLY, IT'S USUALLY GRANTED BY THE APPLICANTS BECAUSE WE THEN DON'T RISK THE POSSIBILITY OF THERE BEING DEEMED APPROVAL. OH, OKAY. I SEE. SO IT, IT REALLY IS TO PROTECT THE TOWNSHIP FROM THE POSSIBILITY OF DEEMED APPROVAL. THAT MAKES SENSE. BUT THE COUNTER EFFECT IS THAT IT ALLOWS AN APPLICANT TO ESSENTIALLY SIT ON A PLAN FOR YEARS, FOUR YEARS WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, MOVING ANYTHING FORWARD. IN THIS CASE, BECAUSE OF THE FINANCIAL SITUATION, THE TOWNSHIP KIND OF SAID, ALRIGHT, WE, WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING TO KIND OF GET THIS MOVING AGAIN. SO WE WITHDREW THE, THE UNLIMITED WAIVER AND RIGHT NOW THE DEADLINE FOR OUR ACTION, I BELIEVE IS FEBRUARY 5TH. YES. SO I, I AGREE WITH WHAT JEFF SAID. I THINK THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION NEEDS TO GIVE A RECOMMENDATION AND THEN IT CAN GO BEFORE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. MR. PLU, YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME AND TALK TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ABOUT THIS. I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO TRY AND COME INTO, UM, YOU KNOW, BRING, BRING YOUR, YOUR ESCROW ACCOUNT INTO THE PROPER BALANCE PRIOR TO THAT DATE. PRIOR TO THE NEXT, PRIOR TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING. BUT IF WE BRING THE, THE BALANCE BEFORE THAT, MY, MY QUESTION IS HOW OFTEN DOES THE TOWNSHIP PAY THE BILLS AND THEN NOTIFY YOU THAT THEY PAID THE BILLS ON THE SITUATION? SO THE MPC ALLOWS MUNICIPALITIES TO ESSENTIALLY BILL ALL OF THE COSTS THAT THEY INCUR IN REVIEWING. OKAY. THE DEVELOPER'S PLAN TO THE DEVELOPER. OKAY. SO THE TOWNSHIP CAN PAY THE BILLS AND THEN REBILL YOU FOR THEM? CORRECT. ALRIGHT. SO IF WE BRING THIS CURRENT, I'M AWAY JANUARY 14TH TO THE END OF FEBRUARY. SO I CAN'T REALLY DO ACCOMPLISH TOO MUCH, BUT I CAN BRING THIS CURRENT AND THEN WE'LL CONTINUE WHEN WE GET BACK ON THE PLAN. I THINK THAT IF YOU WERE WILLING TO, IF YOU'RE WILLING TO BRING THE ACCOUNT CURRENT RIGHT. AND PAY THE BACK DUE BACK ON THE ZONE AND PAY THE ADDITIONAL $3,000 TO GET THE ESCROW ACCOUNT UP TO THE APPROPRIATE BALANCE, I THINK THE TOWNSHIP WOULD BE OPEN TO AN EXTENSION TO LET YOU COME IN AND OR SOMETHING. YOU KNOW, SO, SO DO, DO HELP ME JEFF. I I DON'T DO, DO WE ASK FOR PUBLIC COMMENT STILL HERE NOW AND THEN TAKE A VOTE? YES. YEAH, YOU STILL WANT TO DO ALL THAT? LIKE, IT'S LIKE IT'S OUT THERE. OKAY. THERE'S ONE QUESTION I COULD BRING UP. EVEN BEFORE THAT. YOU MADE MENTION ABOUT THE BILLBOARDS AND I THINK THERE WAS DISCUSSION AT THAT TIME FOUR YEARS AGO THAT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY UP AT THIS TABLE PRETTY MUCH LIKED THOSE BILLBOARDS. NO. SO, UM, I DON'T LIKE 'EM THAT THEY'VE BEEN THERE 125 YEARS KEEPING YOUR ACCOUNT. I DON'T KNOW. BUT THE BILLBOARDS COULD BRING INCOME TO THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION AND IF THEY RUN IT PROPERLY, THEY COULD REALLY SAVE A LOT OF MONEY IN HOW THEY FUNCTION. AND THE HOME COSTS TODAY ARE AN ISSUE. YOU HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, THE OUTSIDE OF THESE PARTICULAR BUILDINGS. SO INSTEAD OF HAVING A FIVE OR $600 BILL EVERY MONTH, YOU GET A HUNDRED DOLLARS BILL. SO IT IS A TWIST IN THIS SITUATION, BUT I THINK IT'S AN ECONOMICALLY GOOD TWIST. AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO PROPOSE. WE HANG ON TO 'EM, LET THEM FUND THE SITUATION, LET THEM SOME FUND THE PEOPLE OF THE FUTURE. THE BILLBOARDS YOU MIGHT NOTICE TOO, WE HAVE LET LOCAL BUSINESSES USE THAT AND THEY REALLY LIKE THAT. AND YOU'LL SEE LOCAL BUSINESSES ON IT ALL THE TIME AND IT HELPS THEIR BUSINESSES. WE DON'T NOT ROB PEOPLE FOR THAT. AND I THINK THAT HELPS THE COMMUNITY. I'VE BEEN A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY MOST OF MY LIFE. I'M 83 YEARS OF AGE. SO THAT'S A PROPOSAL WE'LL PUT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION. THEY CAN DECIDE WHETHER THEY HAVE AN INTEREST IN IT OR NOT. WE'LL BRING THIS SITUATION CURRENT AND I WILL TRY TO KEEP A BETTER EYE ON IT. I, THIS THING GOT ON KIND OF A BACK BURNER AND I DIDN'T WATCH IT AS CLOSE AS I SHOULD. I CAN'T BLAME THE TOWNSHIP OR BLAME ANYONE ELSE, BUT I THINK WE CAN MOVE IT FORWARD. UM, THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION, I REVIEWED THEIR LETTER AND IT WAS PRETTY IMPRESSIVE ACTUALLY. THEY THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S BEEN ANY DEVELOPMENT DOWN IN THAT AREA, UH, FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS. HAVE ANYBODY DEVELOPED ANY BO THING IN THAT COMMUNITY? I MEAN, YOU HAVE A FLOODPLAIN PROBLEM. YEAH, WE HAD THAT PROBLEM, BUT I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING EITHER. THERE'S BEEN A FEW HOUSES BUILT, REBUILT, RAISED. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'D WANT TO BUY THE GROUND AND HAVE UP IN SPACE AND PUT A PARK IN IT. , [00:35:01] WE'RE NOT PRETTY STEEP. YEAH. WE'RE NOT THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE THAT DECISION. UNLESS YOU HAD BUT IT IS GOOD EXERCISE. YOU KNOW, YOU RUN UP AND DOWN THE HILL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING LIKE, LIKE ZACH SAID, YOU COME TO THE BOARD MEETING AND THAT'S SOMETHING YOU COULD PROPOSE TO THE BOARD AND THAT WOULD BE THEIR DECISION. BUT NO THANK YOU. I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND NOW. BUT, UH, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. HAPPY NEW YEAR. THANK YOU TOO. ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO COMMENT ON THIS, UH, DEVELOPMENT? I SETTLE. YEAH. WHAT UP QUESTION? I DON'T HAVE TO COME UP. NO, YOU NEED TO COME. YOU HAVE TO COME UP. COME, DON'T WORRY. UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S THE RULES. THAT'S ALL RIGHT. JUST NAME AND ADDRESS. UH, NANCY DILL AND I LIVE, UH, 1 0 8 LEONARD'S LANE AND OTHER SIDE OF PHOENIXVILLE. OH. BUT THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE GOTTEN EMAILS ON THE OTHER END OF THE EMAIL, UM, I JUST WANNA HAVE A QUESTION FOR CLARIFICATION THAT, THAT IF THE ESCROW WAS BROUGHT TO THE LEVEL THAT IT'S NEEDED, WE'RE GONNA PUT A HOLD ON ANY DECISIONS UNTIL WE GET BACK UNTIL MARCH. I THINK IF, IF YOU GUYS ARE PAY THE, PAY THE BACK DUE BALANCE AND GET THE ESCROW FUND FUNDED, THE BOARD WILL AGREE TO TABLE IT IF YOU GUYS ARE NOT IN THE AREA. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. BECAUSE I'M LOOKING AT THE WE NEED THE ACTUAL LETTER. YEAH. AND, AND AND WE WILL, YEAH. WE'LL, WE'LL ALSO NEED YOU GUYS TO RE ISSUE AN EXTENSION. YEAH. I NEED YOU, I NEED AN EMAIL FROM YOU SAYING THAT YOU'RE, YOU GRANT THE EXTENSION UNTIL IT DATE CERTAIN. CAN YOU SEND ME YEAH, WE CAN PROVIDE, IF YOU PAY IT, I'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL GET YOU THE LANGUAGE THAT YOU NEED TO SUBMIT TO US THAT SAYS THAT WE'RE THE TOWNSHIP IS, IS AN EXTENSION. THANK YOU. AND ONE OTHER QUESTION 'CAUSE IT PROBABLY GOES TO MR. GRACE. MM-HMM . WHAT METHODS OF PAYMENTS DO YOU ALL ACCEPT? UM, FOR ESCROW ACCOUNTS, TYPICALLY WE ONLY TAKE A CHECK. OKAY. BUT IT COULD BE A BANK CHECK. YEAH. OKAY. THANKS. WE DON'T TAKE CREDIT CARDS FOR SUMS THAT LARGE . WE PROBABLY COULD, BUT AT THIS POINT I, I I, I, I DON'T THINK WE'RE, I'M MENTALLY PREPARED TO QUITE DO THAT FOR PEOPLE YET. SO FOR WHATEVER REASON, THANK HAVE TO PUT A SERVICE FEE ON IT. YEAH. ELSE IS NOW, UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM ANYBODY? ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? IF NOT, YOU WANT TO MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION OR SURE. UM, DO, DO FOR THE, WILL YOU EXPLAIN TO THE BOARD, DO WE NEED TO CAVEAT IT IF THEY'RE I DON'T WANT THEM TO DENY. I, WE, WE JUST NEED A RECOMMENDATION. UM, YEAH. THIS WILL ALL BE EXPLAINED TO THE BOARD. OKAY. I'LL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE, THAT THE BOARD, UH, DENY THE TENTATIVE PLAN. SO WE'RE DENYING THE, UH, CURRENT TENTATIVE PLAN. AND THEN THEY'RE GONNA DO ALL THEIR BACK OFFICE STUFF AND, UH, I'LL TAKE A SECOND. RE YEP. I'LL SECOND MOTION. SO JERRY, SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OKAY. THANK YOU GUYS. [DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS] GOOD LUCK. THANKS. GOOD LUCK. NICE TIME . THANK. OKAY. UH, ANY OTHER COMMENTS PEOPLE? I JUST VISIT JEFF. FUTURE. OKAY. FUTURE. UM, WE WILL BE TALKING MORE ABOUT GOALS AND SORT OF THE PATH FORWARD ON THE GOALS AT THE NEXT MEETING AS WE TYPICALLY DO IN THE SECOND MEETING OF THE MONTH. AND WHAT, WHAT DAY IS THAT? THAT'S THE 21ST. UM, SO WE'LL MOVE THAT FORWARD UNLESS AN APPLICATION JUMPS UP. I DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN THOUGH. UM, SO YEAH, WE'LL, WE'LL GET THAT GROUND STARTED AND I'LL SORT OF LAY THE PATH OUT FOR THE YEAR OF WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO AND HOW WE'RE GONNA DO IT SINCE WE'VE NOW DECIDED ON THE GOALS. AND WE'LL TALK A LITTLE ABOUT RIDGE PIKE. 'CAUSE I KNOW MR. PETERS WOULD LIKE US TO KEEP TALKING ABOUT BRIDGE PIKE, SO, UM, WELL, I DO TOO. YES. REALLY CONSIDERATIVE FOR BRIDGE PIKE. YES. UM, AND THEN, SO THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THAT, UNLESS SOMETHING JUMPS UP BETWEEN NOW AND THEN. JUST A, JUST A QUESTION CLEAR, BECAUSE I, THIS STUFF SOMETIMES RUNS TOGETHER FOR YEP. WHAT, WHAT'S THE, UH, STATUS OF THE CARWASH? THEY HAVE THEIR TENTATIVE LAND DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL. WE'RE WAITING FOR PRELIMINARY PLAN SUBMISSION. OKAY. BECAUSE I, YOU KNOW, THE ONE DOWN LOCATIONAL, IT'S JUST ABOUT READY TO OPEN. SO I JUST WONDERED IF THEY'RE GONNA, I GUESS THEY'LL MOVE THEIR RESOURCES TO THAT ONE. THEY'RE, BUT THAT, THAT, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. I MEAN, I THINK THAT THEY'RE PROBABLY PRETTY CLOSE. I I WAS SURPRISED WE DIDN'T RECEIVE IT SOMETIME IN DECEMBER ACTUALLY, BECAUSE I GOT A COUPLE PHONE CALLS ASKING WHEN IT NEEDED TO BE SUBMITTED. SO, WHICH MEANS THEY'LL PROBABLY BE THERE TOMORROW MORNING. . UM, THEN, UM, IT, THE FEBRUARY MEETING WILL PROBABLY, LOVER'S LANE MAY BE ON THERE IF THEY CLEAN UP THEIR PLANS, UH, QUEST, IF THEY CAN GET THEIR PLANS LINED UP, WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THEM. THE FINAL PLAN DEVELOPMENT FOR QUEST, UH, LOVER'S LANE. I THINK THEIR PRELIMINARY FINAL ANTENNA AND UM, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'LL HAVE TIME FOR HASSAN ROAD OR FOR, UM, 4 25. I THINK THOSE MIGHT END UP GETTING PUSHED TO THE MIDDLE OF FEBRUARY JUST BECAUSE OF THE TIMING OF IT WITH CHRISTMAS AND ALL OF THAT. WE MAY HAVE TO USE FEBRUARY'S SECOND MEETING AS A LAND [00:40:01] DEVELOPMENT MEETING WHEN WE DON'T NORMALLY DO THAT, BUT WE'LL SEE. PLAY IT BY YEAR. UM, I SEE SPRING FORD WALKS ON THERE. WHAT'S THE STATUS OF THAT JUDGE? SPRING FORD WALK, AS I SAID, THEY CAME IN THEIR LETTER CAME IN, JEN'S LETTER CAME IN WITH 120 COMMENTS ON IT. OH, THAT'S THE ONE LETTER. YEAH. AND THEY HAD, I EXPRESSED MY, THEY COULD BE ON AN AGENDA. UM, IT'S, IT IS JUST, IT, IT IS HARD AND I DON'T THINK THE PLANNING COMMISSION, FROM MY OPINION, SHOULD BE PUT IN A POSITION TO GO THROUGH 120 COMMENTS TO SAY THANK YOU. YOU KNOW, YES OR NO TO THEM. IT'S JUST WE'RE NOT GONNA GO LINE BY LINE. YEP. THAT'S RIDICULOUS. AND PART OF IT WAS THEIR OWN MAKING BECAUSE THEY PUT IN MORE INFORMATION THAN THEY NEED FOR A TENTATIVE SKETCH. IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE WHAT HAPPENED WITH MILLENNIUM ESTATES, THE FOUR, THEY PUT IN MORE INFORMATION. WE CAN'T NOT REVIEW IT BECAUSE IT'S IN FRONT OF US, BUT IT IS MORE THAN THEY NEED TO PUT IN TO GET THEIR FIRST LEVEL OF APPROVAL. SO IT'S, IT'S KIND OF A CATCH 22 WITH THAT. SO THEY'LL PROBABLY BE, I WOULD ASSUME THEY'LL BE BACK SOMETIME IN FEBRUARY, BEGINNING OF MARCH WITH THE REVIEW TIME AND THINGS LIKE THAT. WHAT ABOUT THE, UH, WHAT IS THE BAPTIST CHURCH, THE LUTHER CHURCH ON LEWIS? I KNOW THEY PUT IN A SCOPING APPLICATION, BRIAN YES. SCOPING APPLICATION WITH PENDOT, WHICH MEANS IT'S SORT OF, HEY, PENDO, WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO? RIGHT. CORRECT. GENERAL. YEAH, YOU CAN EXPLAIN AGAIN. YEAH. SO THEY'VE MADE AN APPLICATION TO PENDO AND SAID THIS IS WHAT WE'RE PLANNING TO DO. UH, WHAT DO YOU NEED FROM US TO GET THE PROCESS STARTED? SO WHAT'S THE SCOPE OF TRAFFIC ANALYSIS THAT PENDO REQUIRES IN ORDER TO SEE THAT WE'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHIME IN AND PROVIDE OUR FEEDBACK. UH, BUT WE'RE WAITING ON PENDO TO IDENTIFY WHAT THAT, WHAT THEIR, THEY BELIEVE THE SCOPE NEEDS TO BE THAT WILL THEN ALLOW THE APPLICANT TO START THAT PROCESS OF THE ANALYSIS. TWO, TWO QUESTIONS HERE, BRIAN. ONE IS THAT, DO THEY, DO YOU DO THAT FOR THE STATE? DO THEY HIRE YOU TO DO THAT FOR THEM OR DO THEY DO IT THEMSELVES? DO THEY HAVE THEIR OWN? SO THEY HAVE THE STATE HAS THEIR OWN CONSULTANT. DO THEY LOOK AT IT INDEPENDENTLY? I'VE LOOKED AT IT ON BEHALF OF THE TOWNSHIP. RIGHT. AND TWO, IS THAT THE EFFECT IS LEWIS ROAD AGAIN? IS THAT THE ROAD? EVERYBODY'S ASKING ABOUT THAT. THAT'S THE PRIMARY INTERSECTION OF QUESTION. OKAY. WE DO NOT HAVE ANY FORMAL APPLICATIONS ON THAT AT THIS POINT. OKAY. BUT USUALLY AT LEAST THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS, USUALLY THE PENDO SCOPING APPLICATION GOES IN BEFORE THEY, BEFORE THEY COME IN FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION. OKAY. UM, QUEST, AS I SAID, WE'RE REVIEWING THEIR PLANS. WE STILL HAVE, WE SOME PLANS FOR YOUR KEY STATION IN HOPWOOD ROAD, THE TOWN HOMES, BUT WE DON'T HAVE LIKE A FULL FORMAL APPLICATION ANYMORE. IT'S KIND OF ALL BY THE WAYSIDE. WE'RE WAITING ON HIGH TO PUT THEIR FINAL PLAN IN FOR THE, FOR THE, THE APARTMENTS UP THERE. UM, I THINK THAT'S GENERALLY KIND OF IT IN TERMS OF WHAT'S OUT THERE. I HAVEN'T HEARD OF ANYTHING NEW COMING IN, UH, MENNONITE ROAD. THE, UM, UH, AG THE ENTERTAINMENT. YES. THE PICKLEBALL PORTION OF THAT. THEY PERCEIVE THEIR CONDITIONAL USE FROM THE TOWNSHIP, FROM THE SUPERVISORS. THEY WILL BE IN ON THE 28TH, THE LAST WEDNESDAY OF JANUARY. THEY WILL BE IN FRONT OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD FOR THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR THE PICKLEBALL. AND THAT'S THEN THEY KIND OF, THEN THE NEXT STEP AFTER THAT IS THEY HAVE THE TENANT OF LAND DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL FROM THE BOARD. I DON'T KNOW IF IT IT HAS TO DO WITH THAT, BUT THEY'RE WORKING ON THAT BARN. THERE'S SOME WORK GOING ON ON THAT BARN. YEAH. AGAIN, I, I GET PHONE CALLS ABOUT THAT, ABOUT WHEN, YOU KNOW, SURVEYORS SHOW UP AND I, I CAN'T STOP PEOPLE FROM PLAYING IN THEIR OWN SANDBOX. YEAH. SOMEBODY'S FIXING UP THAT BARN. YEAH, THEY'RE STARTING TO, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING NECESSARILY, BUT IF HE'S NOT TEARING IT DOWN TO THE STUDS, HE'S NOT DEMOLISHING IT. HE COULD BE IN THERE JUST REINFORCING IT OR MAKING IT WEATHERPROOF. THEY'RE WORKING ON THE BRICK WORK. YEAH. FOUNDATION WORK. YEAH. IT LOOKS LIKE THEY DO A FOUNDATION. WELL HOPEFULLY IT'S JUST REGULAR MAINTENANCE NEEDS. YEAH. IT COULD BE DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT. SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR JEFF ON FUTURE OR CURRENT THINGS? ALL RIGHT, WELL THEN I'LL TAKE HIM. UH OH. THE EAC IS THE 21ST. YES. THE EAC IS THE 21ST. WE DON'T REALLY HAVE AN AGENDA TOGETHER. I TALKED TO SUE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT TODAY, BUT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A AGENDA YET. UH, WE LOST A MEMBER TOO, RIGHT? YES. KEN, THE MEMBER OF THAT, HE HAS, UM, MOVED TO A, HE'S MOVED AWAY. UM, WE WON'T HAVE OUR PARK REPRESENTATIVE JUST 'CAUSE THE WAY THE MEETINGS FALL, THEY DON'T HAVE A MEETING IN JANUARY. SO WE WON'T HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE AT OUR JANUARY MEETING WHERE WE THEY'LL APPOINT SOMEBODY IN FEBRUARY. WOULD [00:45:01] THAT BE, WOULD THAT BE KEN? THAT'S KEN POSITION. THAT WAS KEN. KEN WAS THE PARK AND BOARD REP. OKAY. FOR BOARD REPRESENTATIVE. THAT'S RIGHT. YOU'RE THE, IT COULD BE, UM, YOUR WIFE PROBABLY TOLD YOU THE EAC, YOU KNOW, WE HAD A MEMBER AND THE GENTLEMAN AND HE WAS ON THIS BIRD TIME THING. MM-HMM . HE WAS BIG. HE PUSHED THAT BIRD TIME THING AND, AND HE PUSHED IT. IT WAS PRETTY, I MEAN NOBODY WAS AGAINST WHO IT WAS AGAINST BIRDS, BUT, UH, CATS. BUT EVERYBODY AGREED TO IT. IT'S NOT LIKE A GOOD THING. COST A HUNDRED DOLLARS TO, TO GET THE CERTIFICATION, BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO DO THE WORK. THERE'S CERTAIN RAM YOU HAVE TO DO THINGS. AND KEN WAS TAKING THE LEAD ON THAT. WELL, KEN GOT TRANSFERRED. HE LEFT. SO NOW WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING FOR A BIRD TAP PERSON. YES. SO JEN O'BRIEN, YOU INTERESTED IN BIRDS HERE? WE'RE LOOKING FOR A BIRD. YEAH. CAN GOT TRANSFER. HE'S GOING ALREADY, RIGHT? AS FAR AS I KNOW. I THINK WE START PERSON. YEAH. SO ANYHOW, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S IS GOING. SO ANYHOW, WE'LL TAKE A RECOMMENDATION OR A, UH, COMMIT TO ADJOURN. ANYBODY HAS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NO, I THINK WE'RE GOOD. A MOTION THAT WE ADJOURN, UH, THE MEETING. I SECOND. I SECOND KEVIN. ALL IN FAVOR. THANK YOU. THANKS FOR ALL COMING. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.