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[CALL TO ORDER / APPROVE DECEMBER 3, 2025 AGENDA]
THE DECEMBER 3RD WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 3RD, 2025.PLANNING, COMMISSION MEETING FOR UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP.
AND, UH, WITH THAT TONIGHT WE WILL TALK ABOUT THE AGENDA, WHICH IS KIND OF LIGHT 'CAUSE WE HAVE NO APPLICANTS TONIGHT.
BUT, UH, EVERYBODY TAKE A LOOK AT THE AGENDA AND IF, UH, IF IT'S OKAY, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE IT.
I, I'LL MAKE A MOTION IF WE APPROVE THE MINUTES.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I SAID, YOU SAID ADMIT AGENDA.
SO OBVIOUSLY THE NEXT ONE, WE HAVE NO PUBLIC HERE, SO THERE'S NO FOR NON AGENDA, UNLESS THE BOARD HAS SOMETHING, THE NON AGENDA.
DO THEY ALLOWED TO SPEAK UP THERE? YEAH.
ANYBODY HAVE A NON AGENDA ITEM YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT? NO.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
WE GOT THE MINUTES.SO WE'RE APPROVING THE MINUTES FROM NOVEMBER 5TH AND NOVEMBER 17TH, WHICH ARE ATTACHED.
I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ON NOVEMBER 5TH, 2025 AND NOVEMBER 17TH, 2025.
JUDGE MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM, UH, NOVEMBER FIVE AND NOVEMBER 17TH.
I SECOND, UH, I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION.
SO THAT MOVES TO OUR REAL MEATY PIECE TONIGHT, WHICH IS, UH, GOALS AND TASKS TASK FOR 2026.
WELL, THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT WE STARTED THE YEAR WITH, UM, IN MY EMAIL.
UM, AND I, I'VE GONE THROUGH AND JUST ANNOTATED THE LIST.
THIS IS STRAIGHT OUTTA THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WE'VE UPDATED THE RIGHT OF WAY MAP AND THAT WILL BE OFFICIALLY ADOPTED IN JANUARY.
UM, WE'VE ADOPTED THE BY BY THE SUPERVISOR.
YOU'VE DONE, YOU'VE DONE YOUR ROLE OF, OF UPDATING IT.
THEY'VE SEEN IT OR THEY'VE SEEN IT.
IT IS AN OFFICIAL APPLICATION.
IT'S GONE OUT TO THEM, UM, WHETHER OR NOT THEY'VE READ IT OR RETURNED IT.
BUT THEY HAVE, UM, THE COUNTY HAS WEIGHED IN ON IT.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE KIND OF GOT A LITTLE SLOWED DOWN WAS THAT THE COUNTY WANTED SOME CHANGES TO THE LANGUAGE OF OUR ORDINANCE.
NOTHING THAT YOU WOULD'VE EVER KNOWN ABOUT SOMETHING I BARELY EVEN UNDERSTOOD.
BUT THEY WANT SOME CHANGES TO OUR ORDINANCE ON HOW IT'S REFERENCED IN THE ORDINANCE.
SO WE HAVE TO REWRITE THAT LANGUAGE AND PUT THAT OUT THERE.
WHO, WHO, WHO TELLS YOU THAT? WELL, THE COUNTY CAME BACK AND, AND WHO FROM THE COUNTY LOOKS AT THAT? MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION HAS A CONSULTANT.
UM, HER NAME IS L SENDEL GRANT.
SHE, WELL, SHE LOOKS AT ALL OF OUR APPLICATIONS AND THEN SHE TAKES THAT TO THE, THE BOARD REVIEW, WHICH IS LIKE THE HEAD OF TRANSPORTATION, THE HEAD OF DESIGN, BASICALLY THE, THE DEPARTMENT HEADS OF THE, OF MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND THEY GO THROUGH IT AND THEY, YOU KNOW, WRITE THE LETTER.
SHE, SHE WRITES THE LETTER AND THEY CONFIRMED WHAT THEY WANNA SAY IN THERE.
AND WITH THIS, IT WAS, IT REALLY WAS JUST, OUR LANGUAGE WAS PRETTY ANTIQUATED IN THERE.
'CAUSE WE HAVEN'T ADOPTED ANYTHING IN A VERY LONG TIME IN TERMS OF OFFICIAL OR RIGHT OF WAY MAP.
SO IT REALLY WAS JUST CLEANING IT UP.
AND NEITHER ZACH AND I HAD REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT.
I CERTAINLY HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT IT, BUT IT WAS JUST, THEY CAUGHT IT.
'CAUSE THEY DO THIS MORE OFTEN.
NOW DOES SHE DO THAT FOR THE WHOLE COUNTY? EVERY BOROUGH OR
I THINK SHE HAS A COUPLE, BUT THE COUNTY HAS A COUPLE PEOPLE THAT DO THAT.
THEY, I MEAN, MOST EVERYBODY THERE HAS, EVERYBODY THAT'S OF, OF THAT LEVEL HAS SOME MUNICIPALITIES AND THEN THEY REPORT UP.
SO IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT SOME MUNICIPALITIES HAVE A CONTRACT AND THEY'RE, THE COUNTY SERVES IN MY ROLE, WHERE IT IS THE ZONING DIRECTOR OR THE ZONING OFFICER AND THE ZONING, THEY REVIEW FOR ZONING THE, THIS TOWNSHIP DECIDES THEY'D RATHER HAVE ME DO IT.
WELL, LET'S HOPE THAT CONTINUES.
I, AS FAR AS I KNOW IT IS, UM, THE, WE'VE ALSO IDENTIFIED AND WELL MAYBE NOT IMPLEMENT, BUT, UM, IDENTIFY HIGH CRASH, UM, IMPROVE AND, AND, AND IMPROVEMENTS.
I DON'T THINK THEY'RE AWARE OF IT LINE BY LINE.
BUT AS, AS JOE HAS POINTED OUT, WE ARE LOOKING AT GRANTS.
WE ARE LOOKING AT MOVING SOME OF THOSE THINGS FORWARD.
UM, OUR GRANT COMPANY HAS, HAS LOOKED AT SOME THINGS AND THEN THEY'RE WORKING ON SOME GRANTS.
I THINK THEY HAVE A COUPLE IN ALREADY.
SO THOSE THINGS WILL MOVE FORWARD.
I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PRIORITY IS AT THIS POINT.
I THINK IT'S A QUESTION OF, WE'VE JUST LOOKED AT, SAID, HERE'S A SELECTION OF PROJECTS.
IF YOU CAN GIVE US A GRANT FOR SOME OF IT, WE'LL APPLY THE MONEY TO ANY ONE OF THESE PROJECTS.
BUT HAVE THEY, HAS THE BOARD APPROVED THE STUDY ITSELF, REGARDLESS OF HOW TO IMPLEMENT, HAVE, HAVE THEY SEEN IT AND
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APPROVED? THEY'VE SEEN IT? I, I DON'T THINK, IT DOESN'T RISE THE LEVEL OF MEETING AN APPROVAL, LIKE AN OFFICIAL MAP OR A ZONING ORDINANCE.IT'S REALLY JUST MAKING THEM AWARE OF IT.
WE HAVE SHOWN IT TO THEM THAT IT HAS BEEN CIRCULATED TO THEM.
AND DOES THAT BECOME PART OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OR IS IT TOTALLY INDEPENDENT? IT'S TOTALLY INDEPENDENT.
IT'S, IT'S, IT IS BASICALLY JUST A POLICY DOCUMENT THAT'S BEEN MOVED FORWARD.
OR A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION MOVE FORWARD.
SO, BUT THERE'S NO TIMETABLE AT THIS POINT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT, BECAUSE IT WAS A, A SORT OF A TOUGH FINANCIAL YEAR WITH THE BUDGET.
EVERYTHING'S GONNA BE GRANT DEPENDENT.
SO THAT'S A, THAT'S A WHOLE BIG PROCESS.
IT'S A, IT'S A BIT OF A PROCESS.
AND, AND WE'VE ALSO TALKED ABOUT THAT IF THE ROAD PAVING PROJECTS COME IN LOWER, UM, LAST YEAR, THE ROAD PAVING PROJECTS, I THINK WERE BUDGETED AROUND, I THINK AROUND $2 MILLION BECAUSE THE PRICE OF GAS WAS SO LOW.
IT, THEY CAME IN LIKE AT 125, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IT, THERE WAS A PRETTY BIG DISCREPANCY BETWEEN WHAT THE BIDS ACTUALLY CAME IN AND WHAT WE HAD BUDGETED FOR IT.
AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, WELL MAYBE IF THAT COMES IN, WE CAN START TO USE SOME OF THAT MONEY FOR THESE PROJECTS.
SO THERE, THERE'S MONEY THERE.
IT JUST A QUESTION OF WHAT NEEDS TO GET DONE FIRST.
JUST, JUST FOR, I DON'T, JERRY SAID HE WATCHED IT FOR AN HOUR.
WHAT, UM, WHAT, WHEN THEY, JOE MENTIONED THEY CUT THE BUDGET ALMOST 1,000,009 OR SOMETHING.
WHAT, WHAT WAS THE, UH, OUTCOME OF THAT? WELL, THE BUDGET WILL BE ADOPTED, KNOCK ON WOOD ON MONDAY.
SO IT, IT IS OUT THERE FOR ADVERTISEMENT RIGHT NOW.
UM, THE, THE AREAS THAT THEY CUT THE BUDGET WERE SOME JUST, IT WAS MORE FROM THE OPERATIONAL SIDE.
IT WASN'T FROM THE, THE CAPITAL SIDE.
SOME OF THE THINGS, LIKE SOME OF THE SUBSCRIPTIONS AND SOME OF THE, THE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS THAT WE HAVE IN HERE, JUST TRIM 'EM BACK A LITTLE BIT.
THE DEPARTMENT THAT TOOK THE BIGGEST HIT WAS PROBABLY THE PARKS AND REC DEPARTMENT.
SHE'S GONNA BE CONSOLIDATING SOME OF HER PROGRAMS. UM, WE'RE ALSO, IT LOOKS LIKE THE, THE COMPANY THAT RUNS THE, UM, THE COMMUNITY CENTER WON'T BE DOING THAT.
AND WE'LL BE USING, WE'LL BE RUNNING IT IN-HOUSE AND THAT'S GONNA SAVE US A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY.
WHERE DO YOU GET THE STAFF FOR THAT? THE PARKS AND REC DEPARTMENT.
OH, THEY'LL JUST ASSIGN SOMEBODY TO IT.
I, I DON'T QUITE KNOW WHAT THE, THE, THE STAFFING PROCEDURE'S GOING TO BE, BUT THAT, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING OF IT.
I BELIEVE THEY'RE GETTING SOME PART-TIME HELP.
THAT'S, I BELIEVE, OR VOLUNTEERS.
IS THAT A VOLUNTEER THING TOO? IT COULD BE VOLUNTEER, BUT I THINK MY UNDERSTANDING IS SOME PART-TIME PAID.
BUT, YOU KNOW, RATHER THAN FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES.
SO PART-TIME, BUT THE PARTS DEPARTMENT WILL RUN OUT OF THERE NOW SO THAT THEY CAN STAFF THE BUILDING AS WELL.
THAT THE THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE THAT SHE HAS.
UM, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF WHERE SOME OF THE OTHER MAJOR CUTS WERE.
UM, IT REALLY WAS JUST SORT OF FINDING AREAS OF THE BUDGET THAT WERE SORT OF A LITTLE FLUFF THAT WERE PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN THEY NEEDED TO BE IN JUST TRIMMING THEM BACK.
LISA FIRE, I DON'T THINK THEY TOOK TOO MUCH OF A HIT.
I THINK THAT SOME OF THE PROGRAMS, UM, I I, I THINK THAT THEY WERE LOOKING TO HIRE, I DON'T THINK WE'RE LOOKING, THEY'RE DOING A MANPOWER STUDY NOW FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, UM, TO SEE SORT OF WHERE THEY'RE AT.
SO WE'RE NOT HIRING CURRENTLY.
AT LEAST THAT'S NOT MY UNDERSTANDING OF IT.
A LOT OF, A LOT OF THE FIRING POLICE EMERGENCY SERVICE BUDGET IS CAPITAL MONEY.
AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH MY UNDERSTANDING.
IT'S MORE, SOME, NOT THAT THEY WERE AFFECTED BY OPERATIONAL EXPENSES, BUT AS JEFF SAID, IT'S, IT'S OPERATIONAL.
AND, AND IT REALLY WASN'T, IT, IT WAS MORE THAT FROM THE ESTIMATES OF THE TAX RETURN, THE TAXES THAT WILL, WE'RE BRINGING IN THROUGH EARNED INCOME TAX AND, AND PROPERTY TAX.
THE ESTIMATE IS THAT IF WE OPERATE WHERE WE ARE THIS YEAR, IT'S THIS LEVEL, BUT IT'S A MILLION DOLLARS LESS BECAUSE OF VARIOUS REASONS.
BUT MOST OF IT HAS TO DO WITH A LOT OF, UM, A LOT OF THE BUILDINGS REASSESSING THEMSELVES.
AS I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT, WE TOOK A, A PRETTY BIG HIT ON THAT ONE.
THERE WAS A, UM, AND LIKE THE QUEST PROPERTY, I MEAN, THAT THAT ONE'S BEEN AND QUESTED IT BEFORE THE CURRENT PROPERTY OWNERS THAT WERE INVOLVED WITH IT, I THINK THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY VALUED THAT PROPERTY DOWN.
SO AS THINGS COME BACK, THEY'LL HOPEFULLY, I MEAN, LIKE OBVIOUSLY THE QUEST PROPERTY, WHEN THAT'S REBUILT OUT, THAT'LL BE ANOTHER SIGNIFICANT, IT, IT USED TO BE A TOP FIVE PROPERTY IN TERMS OF ASSESSED VALUE, AND NOW IT'S NOT EVEN THE TOP 20.
SO, YOU KNOW THAT, THAT, THAT'S THE NATURE OF IT.
AND, AND IT'S A QUESTION OF WHAT THE BOARD AND SOMEWHAT WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION WANTS TO DO WITH THOSE THINGS.
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LET'S USE THE LENNAR AS AN EXAMPLE.YOU KNOW, THAT BUILDING IS SITTING EMPTY AND IT'S BEEN REASSESSED, HAVE A VERY LOW PROPERTY VALUE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET ANYBODY IN THE QUESTION.
AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS DURING THE COMPANY, AND THE QUESTION IS, DO WE PUT SOMETHING IN THERE JUST FOR THE SAKE OF HAVING SOME SORT OF TAX RATEABLE? OR DO WE WAIT AND PUT SOMETHING IN THERE THAT WE THINK IS SUSTAINABLE AND LONG TERM? AND, AND YOU KNOW, AND, AND AGAIN, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT ALLOWING RESIDENTIAL IN THERE, THE BOARD HASN'T EVER LET THEM GET THAT FAR BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AGREE ON A NUMBER.
SAME THING WITH BRIDGET COLLEGE MILL.
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THEY CAME IN WITH THEIR PLAN THAT THEY SHOWED YOU, I THINK BACK IN SEPTEMBER, WAS BECAUSE THEIR TAX VALUE WAS SO LOW AND THEY CAN'T GET ANYBODY IN THERE.
AND THAT'S THEIR SOLUTION FOR IT.
AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE NEED TO JUST JAM ANYTHING IN AND TAKE THE FIRST PROPOSAL THAT COMES IN.
I STILL THINK WE NEED TO PLAN IN A VERY SMART MANNER.
AND I THINK THAT THE PEOPLE THAT 20, 30 YEARS AGO WHEN AMERICAN HOME FIRST OPENED THAT BACK IN THE SEVENTIES, I GUESS THAT'S MORE LIKE 50 YEARS NOW.
UM, THAT WAS A VERY GOOD PLANNING BACK THEN.
BUT AS WE ALL KNOW, PLANNING, YOU KNOW, LAND DEVELOPMENT AND PROPERTIES NEVER STAY THE SAME.
SO YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE VIGILANT.
DOES, DOES, UM, SOMETHING LIKE, UH, YOU KNOW, FOUR 20 OR 29, UH, APARTMENT COMPLEX, WHAT WAS IT CALLED? UNIT APARTMENT SOUND CENTER APARTMENTS.
IS THAT THAT OFFSET ANY, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT ALL THOSE PEOPLE BEING IN THERE, I KNOW THEY DON'T PAY THE PROPERTY TAX OF THE, THE OWNER DOES, BUT RIGHT.
THAT DEFINITELY WILL, BECAUSE WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE TAKING 472 PEOPLE, ASSUMING THERE'S ONE PERSON PER APARTMENT.
OBVIOUSLY THERE'S GONNA BE MORE.
BUT YOU'RE TAKING 4 72 UNITS THAT ARE NOW ON THE TAX ROLLS.
AND WHILE LIKE THE MADISON APARTMENTS, YOU KNOW, THE ONES IN PROVIDENCE CORPORATE CENTER, THAT'S IN THE TOP FIVE OF PROPERTY VALUE.
THAT'S WHAT, SO IT IS, ONCE THAT IS SPUN UP AND BUILT, IT WILL BE A VERY HIGH VALUE PROPERTY.
AND IT WILL ALSO BE BECAUSE PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER APARTMENT IS LIKE THIS BECAUSE MADISON'S LIKE THIS, IT'S A VERY HIGH VALUE EARNED INCOME TAX PROPERTY BECAUSE IT IS USUALLY, YOU KNOW, HIGH EARNERS, ONE OR TWO PEOPLE, VERY FEW KIDS.
THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE KIDS, BUT NOT AS MANY AS, YOU KNOW, NOT LIKE A, NOT LIKE A HUNDRED LOT SUBDIVISION.
AND IT'S A, IT IS A HIGH DISCRETIONARY INCOME.
SO THEY SPEND A LOT AND THEY, THEY PAY, THEY PAY A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF EARNED INCOME TAX.
UM, DOES, DOES THAT DOES, SO YOU SAY THAT A A PROPERTY LIKE THAT, OR EVEN, YOU KNOW, PARKHOUSE MM-HMM
COULD OFFSET SOME OF THESE INDUSTRIAL SPACES WITH LOSSES.
AND AGAIN, WE HAVE TO PLAN SMART AND WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT SMART.
BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING FROM A QUEST PROPERTY THAT MAYBE HAD 200 EMPLOYEES THAT YOU NEVER REALLY SAW.
LIKE A BIG STRONG TRAFFIC THAT SEEMED LIKE THEY WERE ALWAYS, IT'S NOT LIKE, I REMEMBER BACK IN THE DAYS WHEN MY GRANDPARENTS WOULD TAKE ME TO THE AIRPORT AND WE WOULD DRIVE BY THE SCOTT FACTORY BY THE AIRPORT.
YOU DRIVE BY THERE AT FOUR O'CLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON.
YOU WERE STUCK IN TRAFFIC BECAUSE EVERYBODY CAME AT ONCE.
EVERYBODY LEFT AT THE SAME TIME.
THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT HAPPENED.
BUSINESSES DON'T RUN THAT WAY ANYMORE.
SO YOU DON'T SEE THE TRAFFIC IMPACT THAT YOU USED TO.
BUT THERE WERE SIGNIFICANT EMPLOYEES THERE.
AND NOW YOU'RE, YOU'RE TRADING THAT FOR SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF RESIDENTS.
AND AGAIN, WE PLAN SMART AND WE HOPE TO MAKE THOSE THINGS WORK.
AND WE, WE DON'T JUST GO, OH SURE, YOU WANNA PUT A THOUSAND UNITS IN, WE'LL LET YOU PUT A THOUSAND UNITS IN JUST FOR THE SAKE OF A THOUSAND UNITS FOR THE TAX TO THE TAX.
BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE, I MEAN, IF YOU CAN'T, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT GONNA STOP AT ANYHOW.
SOME OF THOSE DEVELOPMENTS LIKE PARKHOUSE, SO AT LEAST MAKES YOU FEEL A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAT YOU ARE GOING TO OFFSET SOME OF THE LOSSES THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE DOING.
'CAUSE YOU'RE GONNA STOP AT ANYHOW.
SO IT'S JUST, YOU DO GET A LITTLE BIT OF A KICK OUT IT.
HAS ANYBODY APPROACHED THE TOWNSHIP FOR, UH, AI TYPE, UH, INDUSTRY? LIKE, UH, UM, I KNOW WE, WHEN QUEST WAS ON THE MARKET DATA CENTER, DATA CENTERS WAS ONE OF THE MAIN CALLS I GOT.
AND AGAIN, WE WOULD FOR WHAT PROPERTY? JEFF? DATA CENTERS FOR QUEST.
THEY WANTED TO CONVERT THAT INTO A DATA CENTER.
NOW WE HAD A DATA CENTER THE RIGHT NEXT TO, RIGHT NEXT TO GLAXOSMITH KLINE.
WHEN YOU DRIVE UP TROUT ROAD, THE BUILDING THAT'S ON THE FRONT, THAT'S A DATA CENTER.
THERE'S ACTUALLY PENN'S SUPERCOMPUTER IS IN THAT BUILDING FOR, IS SMITH KLINE ON IT OR THEY JUST RENT? NO, THEY THEY DID OWN IT.
THEY, AND THEY SAID THIS AT THE TIME, THEY SPUN IT OFF INTO A DIFFERENT COMPANY AFTER THEY GOT IT.
SO THEY DIDN'T WANT, I DON'T THINK THEY WANTED THE RESPONSIBILITY OR THE, THEY DIDN'T WANNA BE A LANDLORD BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT USING ALL OF IT, BUT I'M SURE THEY'RE A SIGNIFICANT CUSTOMER.
IT'S OWNED BY A SEPARATE COMPANY THAT LEASES OUT VARIOUS COMPUTER SPACES.
LIKE I SAID, PENN'S ONE OF PENN'S SUPER COMPUTERS.
IS THERE, UM, IT WAS ACTUALLY, THERE WAS AN ARTICLE IN THE INQUIRER ABOUT IT ABOUT A MONTH AGO.
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IT.I'LL CIRCULATE IT TO YOU GUYS SO YOU CAN SEE.
AND THEN, UM, I'M SURE GLASGOW HAS PLENTY OF BUSINESSES THERE, BUT WE HAVEN'T BEEN APPROACHED SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THAT.
I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THERE'S SOME MOVEMENT ON THAT AT, AT THE QUEST OR AT THE PFIZER DOW SITE.
BUT DID YOU, UM, I THINK IT WAS LAST NIGHT WAS THE, UH, SPRING CITY OR EAST VINCENT.
UH, DID YOU HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT THAT? NO, I, I MEANT TO LOOK INTO IT.
I JUST, I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO TODAY.
IF YOU READ THE SIGNS, YOU'D THINK EVERYBODY WAS AGAINST IT.
IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE.
AND YET WHAT'S THERE NOW,
THAT'S THE WORST THING I'VE EVER SEEN.
I I I'M NOT SURE WHY THERE'S A VEHEMENT HATRED ABOUT DATA CENTERS.
AGAIN, WITH GOOD PLANNING, THEY CAN WORK ONE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M AWARE OF, I'VE BEEN READING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT, IS, UM, PEOPLE ARE AGAINST IT BECAUSE OF THE IMPACT IT'S GONNA HAVE ON THE ELECTRICAL GRID.
'CAUSE THEY DEMAND SO MUCH POWER AND, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT.
THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT.
UM, YEAH, THAT WHAT I, UTILITIES WATER.
THEY SAID WATER GETS CONTAMINATED ON THE DRY.
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE TO USE WATER TO COOL SOME.
WELL, THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE A HIGH COOLING REQUIRE.
THEY SAY WATER GETS WELL, CHEMICALS ARE USED IN, IN THOSE SYSTEMS AND THAT KIND OF THING.
THAT'S WHY I'VE READ THAT TOO.
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE WONDERING HOW HOW MUCH, UH, PEOPLE ARE REALLY UNDERSTANDING IT OR THEY'RE JUST KIND OF REACTING TO IT.
I THINK THEY'RE REACTING TO IT BECAUSE I, I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY WOULD WANT THAT.
IT SEEMS LIKE IT, YOU KNOW, PRETTY INNOCUOUS USE.
YOU KNOW, NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE, NOT A LOT OF CARS.
I'M SURE THEY'RE PAYING THE PEOPLE.
WELL, THAT'S GOOD FOR THE AREA TOO.
AND I'M SURE PICO KNOWS IF THEY CAN, IF THEY HAVE THE POWER, THEY, THEY'RE NOT GONNA WELL, PICO'S RIGHT, RIGHT ON THE SIDE.
WELL, TO ME THEY MUST KNOW THAT STATION THERE.
IT WOULD BE EASY TO GET POWER.
WELL, THAT'S ONE OF THE, UM, I KNOW THAT THAT'S ONE OF THE CONTENTIONS IN HARRISBURG RIGHT NOW IS, IS THE GOVERNOR'S LOOKING TO ALLOW THREE MILE ISLAND TO SPIT UP MORE AND FOR LIMERICK TO SPIN UP MORE, TO GENERATE MORE ENERGY.
WELL THEY'RE, THEY'RE GONNA RESTART THREE MILE ISLAND.
MICROSOFT HAS ALREADY SIGNED A CONTRACT THREE MILE ISLAND TO START THAT REACTOR.
THE GOVERNMENT'S SPENDING MONEY TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
WELL THAT DOES KIND OF LEAD US INTO WHAT WE WANT TO DO NEXT.
UM, KEVIN, AS I SAID, WAS NOT HERE.
HE SENT AN EMAIL SAYING THAT HE WOULD LOVE TO FOCUS ON THE SALLOW DESIGN GUIDELINES AND UPDATING THE DISTRICTS LIKE WE'VE STARTED FOR RIDGE BIKE.
UM, SO IF THERE'S AN AREA THAT YOU WANNA FOCUS ON, UM, YOU KNOW, WE CAN CERTAINLY WORK ON RIDGE PIKE AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK ON RIDGE PIKE.
UM, IF THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT YOU, YOU THINK, WHETHER IT'S INDUSTRIAL DISTRICTS TO LOOK AT DATA CENTERS OR THE IO DISTRICTS, BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING A LOT OF PUSH FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT MIGHT GLAXO DO IN THE FUTURE? WHAT MIGHT PFIZER DOW DO IN THE FUTURE? I KNOW THIS IS A SALARY THING, BUT I'VE BEEN PUSHING ALL ALONG TO TRY TO MAYBE PUT SOME BURNS IN NEAR ROUTE 29, FOR EXAMPLE, AND ONE 13 AND ANY ROUTE LIKE THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, KEEPS THE, THE IMAGE FROM THE HIGHWAY AND FROM THE RESIDENCES SUFFERING.
AND, AND ACTUALLY YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE REALLY NICE COMMUNITIES DOWN NEAR MARBLE NEWTOWN OR DOWN IN THAT AREA, UH, IT'S A BAD EXAMPLE, I GUESS.
BUT IF THEY'VE GOT 'EM DOWN THERE AND IT REALLY LOOKS NICE, WHAT, WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT, BOB? WELL, THEY PUT A BERM.
SOME, SOME ARE SIX, EIGHT FOOT HIGH, BELIEVE IT OR NOT.
THEY ALL KINDS OF TREES, BUSHES, PLANTS.
THAT'S ALONG THE LINES OF, OF KEVIN'S DESIGN GUIDELINES.
AND I JUST TO SORT OF SECOND, UH, KEVIN'S RECOMMENDATION, I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAD IN MIND IS PERHAPS AS PART OF LOOKING AT THOSE DESIGN GUIDELINES, WE DEVELOPED SOME LANGUAGE TO PROMOTE, UM, YOU KNOW, ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE DESIGN, LIKE LEAD STANDARDS.
BUT I, I, I CAN HEAR WHAT YOU SAID.
UH, YOU, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH, UH, LEAD LEMD IS AN ACRONYM, BUT LEADERSHIP AND ENVIRON ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENTAL RESPONSIBLE DESIGN.
BUT, UM, THAT IT IS, IT IS BASICALLY A DESIGN STANDARD THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, UM, WHEN YOU'RE DESIGNING NEW WORK THAT IT MEET CERTAIN CRITERIA FOR PERFORMANCE, YOU KNOW, UH, ENERGY STANDARDS AND THAT KIND OF THING.
AND, UM, IF WE'RE GONNA LOOK, I'D LIKE TO SEE US LOOK AT THAT AND PROMOTE THAT AS, UH, SOMETHING THAT DEVELOPERS RESPOND TO AND, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, SO THAT THE THINGS THAT ARE GETTING BUILT ARE, YOU KNOW, ARE ARE, UH, ARE MORE ENER ENERGY RESPONSIBLE AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S SUSTAINABLE.
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PERSONALLY MYSELF, I WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE THE OPEN SPACE THING.I, YOU KNOW, WE LOST, WE LOST THAT.
WE DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY OBVIOUSLY WE WE'RE HOPING TO HAVE.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I I, I DON'T WANT TO LOSE JUST 'CAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THAT MONEY ANYMORE.
I DON'T WANNA LOSE FOCUS ON OPEN.
I GUESS THE QUESTION, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, AS IT'S, AS IT'S PHRASED, IT'S UH, UM, GO BACK, UM, OPEN SPACE PRESERVATION PROGRAM, RIGHT? I MEAN, HOW, HOW DO WE DEFINE THAT? I MEAN, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND, AND WHAT, WHAT BECOMES OUR ROLE IN, IN TRYING TO MOVE THAT FORWARD? I, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A ROLE OTHER THAN IDENTIFYING WHAT THE SPACES ARE.
AND THEN MY, MY, MY READING THAT WOULD BE THAT THE TOWNSHIP WOULD HIRE A, A CONSULTANT OR WHOEVER WHO APPROACHES MR. NIELSEN FOR INSTANCE, AND SAYS, HEY, CAN YOU, WOULD YOU BEQUEATH SOME OF THIS AS A TAX THING OR AS A, YOU KNOW, A THING OF GOOD CHARITY LIKE PEOPLE DO.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE MUSEUMS DO THAT.
THEY SAY, HEY, WILL YOU LEAVE PART OF YOUR STATE TO US? YOU KNOW, THEY SAY UNIVERSITIES DO THAT, YOU KNOW, ENDOWMENTS.
AND, AND I HOPE THAT, I THINK THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS TO ME.
THAT'S, I, I THINK THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION CAN, BECAUSE WE PUT EVERYTHING ON HOLD WHEN WE, WHEN THE, UM, WHEN THE ORDINANCE OR WHEN THE, THE REFERENDUM WAS GOING THROUGH.
I THINK WE SHOULD PICK, I THINK WE CAN PICK THAT BACK UP AND WE CAN LOOK AT PRIORITIZING SOME OF THESE OPEN SPACES AND MAYBE WE CAN WRITE A MEMO.
MAYBE WE CAN DO THE SORT OF THE SAME THING WE DO WITH TRAFFIC AND SAY, HERE'S WHAT THE OPEN AS I'M RECOMMENDING BODY, HERE'S WHAT WE RECOMMEND.
THE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS APPROACH THESE OWNERS.
AND AT LEAST WE UNDERSTAND THAT THOSE THINGS CAN MOVE FORWARD.
YOU KNOW, WHAT DO IT TAKE TO MOVE THEM FORWARD? MAYBE NOT FOR THIS YEAR, BUT MAYBE FOR THE NEXT BUDGET CYCLE.
WELL, AND AGAIN, I, IT'D BE GREAT TO HAVE MONEY, BUT AT LEAST APPROACHING THESE PEOPLE AND ASKING ABOUT BEQUEATHING SOME PROPERTY TO THE TOWNSHIP, I THINK IS AT LEAST SOMETHING WE CAN DO WITHOUT COSTING IT.
AND WHAT SCARED EVERYBODY WAS THE TAX ISSUE.
ANYTIME YOU MENTION TAXES, EVERYBODY'S GONNA TAX.
WELL, DOES THAT, DOES THAT MEAN THAT WE NEED TO CHANGE THE RESPONSIBILITY HERE TO BE, UH, JEFF, THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE SUPERVISORS? 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S DESIGNATED AS JEFF IN THE SUPERVISOR'S ROLE, PERIOD.
WELL, THAT'S HOW THIS IS DEFINED.
I I THINK THOSE WERE ALWAYS SORT OF A LITTLE LOOSEY GOOSEY.
I THINK WE, WE CAN, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO MAKE AN AMENDMENT OF IT, BUT I THINK, LIKE I'M STILL A BIG FAN OF THE RIDGE PIKE AND THAT, YOU KNOW, NOT SEEING THAT PROPERTY BEHIND GELS DEVELOPING ANY MORE THAN IT IS.
AND, AND WE WILL GET BACK ON THAT.
THAT WILL BE THE FIRST PART OF THE YEAR.
I MEAN, THAT WILL BE THE FIRST PART OF, OF JANUARY, FEBRUARY.
AND, AND GETTING BACK INTO THAT ROTATION AGAIN.
UM, I, I THINK YOUR SUGGESTION, JOE, WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE IT A FORMAL RECOMMENDATION, BUT YOU CAN THAT'S FINE.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE, WE AGREE AND UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT, THAT OUR ROLE IS MORE AT, WE CAN IDENTIFY OPEN SPACE PROPERTIES, BUT THE REAL INITIATIVE HAS TO COME FORTH BY THE, BY JEFF AND THE SUPERVISORS TO SAY YEAH, WE, WELL, AND I I, I THINK HAVING YOU AS A RECOMMENDING BODY AND THAT'S YOUR ROLE IS, IS TO YOUR BENEFIT BECAUSE YOU CAN, WE CAN PUT TOGETHER AGAIN, SOMETHING LIKE WHAT BRIAN DID WITH THE, THE TRAFFIC MEMO AND SAY, THESE ARE WHERE REALLY THE PRIORITY.
AND THE BOARD CAN TAKE THAT AND, YOU KNOW, TASK SOME PEOPLE LIKE THEY DID WITH JEN AND TIM WITH THE GETTING THE GRANTS AND LOOKING AT GRANTS TO SEE IF THERE'S A WAY TO DO IT.
AND AT LEAST THAT WAY WE'RE A LITTLE MORE FOCUSED AS, AS I THINK SOMEONE SAID, ONE OF THE, I THINK ONE OF THE FLAWS OF THE REFERENDUM PROCESS WAS THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE A PROPERTY IDENTIFIED.
YOU GO TO ANY OTHER TOWNSHIP, THEY'RE LIKE, OH, WE ARE GONNA SAVE BIL FARMS OR WE'RE GONNA SAVE THE SMITH FARM, THE FRE TRACT.
YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
'CAUSE YOU HEARD A LOT DURING THAT TIME.
THEY'RE WANT TAXES US, WHICH IS, AND THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE.
WE DIDN'T HAVE A PIECE SAYING, HEY, WE WANNA SAVE THIS.
AND I THINK THAT WAS, THAT WAS TO THE DETRIMENT OF IT.
AND, AND SO I THINK IF WE CAN COME UP WITH A PRIORITY LIST AND EVEN LOOK AS A PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBER, RESIDENTS, THERE'S NO REASON YOU CAN'T GO AND KNOCK ON SOMEBODY'S DOOR AND SAY, HEY LOOK, I DO SOME WORK WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOUR PROPERTY'S OPEN SPACE.
YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO COME TALK TO US ABOUT IT? OR WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO SIT DOWN ABOUT IT? THAT'S A WASTE DOWN THE ROAD.
AND I, I DON'T WANNA PUT YOU IN ANY UNCOMFORTABLE SITUATIONS.
I JUST DON'T WANT TO OVERSTEP MY AUTHORITY OR MY, MY WELL AGAIN, YOUR AUTHORITY IS TO, TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS.
AND, AND ANY KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU CAN GIVE THEM, UH, BASED ON AND WITH THAT RECOMMENDATION IS GONNA BE BENEFICIAL TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
THEY MAKE THE FINAL DECISION IN TERMS OF FINANCING, VOTING, SPENDING, THE MONEY.
ALL YOU CAN DO, AND I, I DON'T, I RUN INTO IT ALL THE TIME BETWEEN, YOU DON'T WANT TO,
[00:25:01]
YOU WANT TO DRAW, THERE'S A FINE LINE BETWEEN BEING AN ADVOCATE FOR SOMETHING AND JUST REPRESENTING WHAT THE PROCESS IS.SO, SO MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE FOR THIS THE FIRST OF THE YEAR, YOU KNOW, NEXT YEAR IS THAT WE FOCUS ON THREE OR FOUR PROPERTIES, OPEN SPACE PROPERTIES, THESE THREE PROPERTIES, FOUR WHATEVER, FIVE, WHATEVER WE THINK IS REASONABLE AND IDENTIFY THEM, IDENTIFY THE OWNERS AND GIVE IT TO THE BOARD AND SAY, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU DO SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, HIRE A CONSULTANT TO DO THAT, OR YOUR LAWYER HIRE A LAWYER TO DO IT, OR WHOEVER, HOWEVER THE PROCESS WORKS FROM THIS POINT FORWARD, WE COULD GO OUT AND TALK TO MARCEL ACTUALLY.
BUT THERE'S A FINE LINE THERE BETWEEN US REPRESENTING THE TOWNSHIP AND US JUST ADVOCATING FOR, SO SOMETHING YOU'D HAVE TO START OUT RIGHT FROM, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T COMMIT FOR YEAH.
I CAN'T DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN SAY PLEASE
WELL THEN I, I GUESS THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THIS A FORMAL VOTE, BUT WHY DON'T WE MAKE IT DESIGN GUIDELINES AND OPEN SPACE PRESERVATION AND, AND THOSE WILL BE THE TWO FOCUSED AND RIDGE PIKE.
AND DOES THAT WHAT, YOU KNOW, THE PRESERVATION, DOES THAT INCLUDE THE SECOND AVENUE AREA AS WELL? YEAH, I, I THINK WE, THAT'S, THAT'S, I MEAN, SECONDARY PRESERVATION OPTIONS IS WHAT WE CAN DO WITH IT.
I THINK THE OPEN SPACE PRESERVATION PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT IS SORT OF WORKING THROUGH THAT SAME SORT OF THING.
AND I FORGET THE SECOND AVENUE PRESERVATION, WHAT, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? THAT'S THE AREA SORT OF, UM, BETWEEN BLACKROCK AND ACTUALLY IT IS ACTUALLY BETWEEN OLD STATE GOING WEST OLD STATE TO SUGAR, NOT SUGAR, UH, SPRINGER TOWN ON EVERY DAY.
BUT, BUT IF YOU'RE GONNA INCLUDE THIS PERIOD TIME, YOU MIGHT AS WELL GO A LITTLE BIT FARTHER SO THAT WE MAKE SURE WE COVER RENTER.
I MEAN, I I WAS JUST SAYING THAT THAT'S CERTAINLY WHAT WE DESIGNED RENTER.
YOU KNOW, HE, HE, YOU KNOW, GOT HELP OF, I HOPE HE'S 50 MORE YEARS, BUT YOU KNOW, AS SOON AS HE, IF SOMETHING HAPPENS TO HIM THAT'S GONE, DID WE EVER PUT ON THE TOWNSHIP OR ON THAT PLAN WHEN HE SUBDIVIDED YOUR AREA RIGHT.
THAT THEY COULDN'T FURTHER SUBDIVIDE THE REMAINDER? NO, I LOOKED INTO IT.
WE PROBABLY SHOULD LOOK INTO THAT FOR FUTURE.
WELL, IS IT TOO LATE TO, I MEAN, NO, NOT THAT PARTICULAR ONE AS SURELY FOR THAT.
WELL, MOST, MOST OTHER TIMES WE DO.
IF, IF, IF YOU DO A LARGE LOT SUBDIVISION, LIKE THERE'S A HOUSE THAT JUST SOLD RIGHT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF, YOU KNOW, THE LEONARD DEVELOPMENT, THE GOLDMAN SACHS RIVER CREST IS THIS WAY.
GOLDMAN, THE GOLDMAN SACHS DRIVE THAT WAY AT THE TOWNHOUSES.
THAT HOUSE RIGHT BEHIND THAT, THAT ONE WAS PART OF THAT WAS THE LARGE LOT FOR THE, FOR THE, UM, THE, TO THE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S BETWEEN THE LENAR AND HASSER ROAD THAT WILSON AND FELL.
I MEAN, I KNOW YOU DON'T KNOW THE SUBDIVISION NAME, BUT, UM, THAT SUBDIVISION WAS DESIGNED WITH WHAT THEY CALL LARGE LOT.
SO YOU TAKE A BUNCH OF SMALL LOTS AND YOU DO A LOT AVERAGING WITH ONE BIG LOT.
SO THE BIG LOT IS THERE'S TWO 10 ACRE LOTS THERE THAT THEY USE TO AVERAGE OUT ALL OF THE SMALL LOTS TO MAKE A ONE ACRE AVERAGE LOT.
THERE CAN NEVER BE ANYTHING BUT A HOUSE ON A FARM.
NOW, RENTERS WAS NOT DESIGNED.
THAT WAS NOT, I THINK IF YOU TALKED TO MR. RENTER, HE'S A PRETTY REASONABLE GUY.
HE'S, HE'S A DYING TO EARTH GUY.
YOU KNOW, HE REALLY IS A FARMER AND HE KNOW HE MADE HIS MONEY MM-HMM
I THINK THAT HE'S AN APPROACHABLE GUY TO SAY, HEY, WE CALL THIS REER PARK OR SOMETHING FOR THE ALL OF ETERNITY.
I THINK HE, YOU KNOW, HE WANTS TO PRESERVE THAT.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK HE WANTS TO SEE IT DEVELOPED.
I, I, I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU.
I THINK THAT THAT'S, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S A GOOD PLACE TO START.
I THINK WITH RENTER AND EVERYTHING IN SECOND AVENUE, IT SORT OF KNOCKS TWO THINGS OFF.
I THINK THE OPEN SPACE PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT IS ALSO COMING UP WITH SORT OF A POLICY, A METHOD FOR US TO MAKE SURE THAT WE PRESERVE OPEN SPACE IN THE FUTURE OF, THIS IS OUR PREFERENCE FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
WE PRESERVE, YOU KNOW, WE PREFER TO PRESERVE IT COMPLETELY.
UM, YOU KNOW, OR NOT SELL DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS TO KEEP IT WITH PRIVATE OWNERS.
THOSE ARE THE SORT OF THINGS THAT WE CAN COME UP WITH AND WE CAN COME UP WITH A PROGRAM FOR THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO MAKE IT, TO ADVISE THEM.
'CAUSE THAT WAS ALSO PART OF THE QUESTION WITH THE REFERENDUMS. LIKE, WELL, HOW ARE YOU GONNA DO IT? WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO? YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE I AGREE.
WHAT'S THE PROCESS? THAT REALLY, I THINK THAT'S REALLY OUR ROLE THAT WE COULD DO TO MAKE, HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT IS TO PROVIDE THAT KIND OF, UH, CRITERIA, GUIDANCE RECOMMENDATIONS.
UM, I, I, I WOULD'VE NO PROBLEM US GOING OUT AND TALKING TO MR. REDER, BUT I JUST, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S OUR ROLE.
NO, AND I, I, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT TOM, I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY HOLD OFF ON THAT AND, AND LET'S COME UP WITH SOME PROGRAM GUIDELINES AND SORT OF SEE WHAT WE CAN DEFINE
[00:30:01]
AS A PROGRAM SPACE.I THINK IF WE COME UP WITH IDEAS, PROGRAM PROGRAMS, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, UH, A PATH.
A PATH FOR COMPLETION, STUFF LIKE THAT, THEN, YOU KNOW, HAVE THE SUPERVISOR SAY, OKAY, CAN WE PUT SOME BUDGET TO THIS? CAN WE NOT? IS IT WORTH IT? IS IT NOT? YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'VE DONE OUR JOB AND I THINK WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, I THINK THAT CAN SORT OF PIGEON NICELY INTO THAT.
IT ALSO WORKS REALLY WELL BECAUSE WE'RE, ZACH, JEN AND I ARE STARTING TO PUT TOGETHER A, A CLEANUP ORDINANCE OF THINGS THAT WE NEED TO CATCH, THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN WAIVING, UM, CHANGES IN THE LAW, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO THE, THE DESIGN GUIDELINES SORT OF WILL FIT IN WELL WITH THAT, UM, BECAUSE A LOT OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES WILL HAVE MORE ENGINEERING BASIS TO THEM.
SO JEN CAN LOOK AT THOSE THINGS AND REVIEW SOME OF THAT LANGUAGE.
'CAUSE AGAIN, LIKE WHEN WE HEAR LAST TIME AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT MRC BASINS AND, YOU KNOW, THE MANAGE RELEASE CONTROL, I HAD NO IDEA WHAT MRC STOOD FOR.
UM, THAT'S SOMETHING NEW FROM DEP THAT OUR ORDINANCE DOESN'T REALLY CONTEMPLATE.
SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO SORT OF FOLD INTO THE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND REVIEW DESIGN GUIDELINES.
AND CAN WE ALSO INCLUDE THE WALKER TRACK? I'M NOT SURE WHERE THAT STANDS.
THAT ONE IS ON THE BOARD AGENDA FOR MONDAY TO APPROVE EXECUTING A, AN AN AGRICULTURAL EASEMENT OVER THE PROPERTY.
SO IT'S ABOUT TO CLOSE IN TERMS OF THE COUNTY GIVING IT MONEY.
AND WE'RE GOING TO ACQUIRE AN AGRICULTURAL EASEMENT ON TOP OF THAT.
WHICH BASICALLY TAKES AWAY ALL OF HIS PROPERTY RIGHTS.
SO THAT, I DIDN'T CHECK THAT ONE OFF BECAUSE IT'S NOT OFFICIAL, NOT FINISHED YET.
BUT IT, BUT IT, I WAS, I THOUGHT, I THOUGHT IT WAS, HOW DID THAT KEEP COMPLETE? THAT ONE WAS REALLY DRIVEN BY THE COUNTY.
UH, THEY, THE COUNTY OPEN SPACE BOARD, UH, HE APPROACHED THE COUNTY OPEN SPACE BOARD BECAUSE THE COUNTY DOES HAVE OPEN SPACE MONEY.
THEY HAVE AN, AND THEY HAVE AN AGRICULTURAL REVIEW BOARD THAT GOES AND FINDS THESE AGRICULTURAL PROPERTIES, PUTS THEM IN, IN CERTAIN STATE PROGRAMS LIKE ACT TWO 19, I THINK IS ONE OF 'EM.
AND THERE'S A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT ACTS THAT THEY CAN PUT THEM IN.
AND EVENTUALLY, IF YOU'RE IN THOSE THINGS LONG ENOUGH, YOU CAN BUILD TOWARDS TO WHERE YOU CAN'T REALLY DO ANYTHING WITH YOUR PROPERTY OTHER THAN KEEPING AN AGRICULTURAL PROPERTY.
WELL, IS THAT A PATH FOR US? THAT'S, YEAH.
IS THAT A PATH THAT WE CAN GO TO THESE PEOPLE WITH OUR RECOMMENDATION AND NOT A PIECE OF PROPERTY? OR IT IS, BUT IT, THAT IS A LITTLE BIT MORE OWNER DRIVEN.
WE HAVE TO FIND THE, AND I'M SURE LIKE MR. RENTER IS PARTIALLY ON THAT PATH.
THAT'S WHEN YOU GET TAXES WAIVED FOR NOT DEVELOPING YOUR PROPERTY AND KEEPING IT AGRICULTURAL, THINGS LIKE THAT.
I'M SURE HE'S IN SOME OF THAT.
IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT YOU TAKE THAT LEAP.
NOW, MR. WALKER IS GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE HE'S SELLING IT, TECHNICALLY SELLING HIS PROPERTY TO THE COUNTY.
HE'S ABLE TO RETAIN, I THINK IT IS TWO DWELLING UNITS THERE THAT HE'S ABLE TO LIVE IN.
AND THEN THOSE DWELLING UNITS ARE ABLE TO CONTINUE.
BUT, UM, THERE'S NO DEVELOPMENT OF THE ENTIRE 13 OR 18 ACRE TRACT TO BUILD 18 HOMES, LET'S SAY.
BUT YES, THAT IS A PATH THAT IS, THAT IS, THAT IS AN OPTION.
AND SOMETHING WE WILL LOOK INTO THE PROGRAM MORE DURING THE DEVELOPMENT OF IT.
I THINK WE'RE ALL AGREEMENT THAT WE WANT DO THOSE.
GONNA SAY EASY MEANS WE'RE GONNA BE DONE IN THREE MONTHS.
I, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE AS MUCH DEBATE.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S AGAINST ANY OF THAT.
AND I THINK ER ACTUALLY THINKS THAT WAY ALREADY.
I THINK HE WOULD BE CONVINCING IF YOU CALLED IT READY TO REPLACE FOR THE REST OF THE ETERNITY, HE WOULD BE, I THINK
WELL, I JUST THINK HE WOULD, HE'S MADE HIS MONEY.
SO WE, THE ONE OFFICIAL PIECE OF BUSINESS WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN OR UH, TAKE CARE OF TONIGHT IS IN YOUR PACKET.
AND I HAVE A COPY OF IT HERE IF YOU WANNA LOOK AT IT.
THERE'S A SEWAGE FACILITIES PLANNING MODULE COMPONENT FOR A, BASICALLY JUST MEANS THAT WE'VE REVIEWED IT.
UM, MIKE COIN FROM DELMORE ASSOCIATES HAS LOOKED AT IT.
WE ARE LOOKING TO CONNECT THE SEWER FROM THE CLIENT ROAD DEVELOPMENT THAT'S JUST BEING INSTALLED.
BRING IT DOWN KLEIN ROAD AND BRING IT ALONG LINFIELD TRAP ROAD TO SPROUSE CIRCLE, WHICH IF YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN KLEIN ROAD, YOU TAKE A LEFT.
AND THEN ON YOUR RIGHT IS IS A SMALL CIRCLE.
I THINK IT HAS SIX HOUSES ON IT, MAYBE MAYBE FOUR.
IT'S A, IT IS A SMALL CUL DE SECONDARY THAT BORDERS THE TAYLOR FARM.
SO IT WOULD BRING SEWER TO THAT AND IT WOULD BRING IT ALONG PARCELS OF, OF LINFIELD TRAP ROAD.
I THINK THE IDEA IS ONCE THE PUMP STATION IS IN, BECAUSE THE PUMP STATION WAS SIZED TO BRING ALL OF THOSE RESIDENTS UP THERE THAT AREN'T ON PUBLIC SEWER, THEN ONCE IT'S AVAILABLE, THEY CAN JOIN.
THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAS NEVER FORCED ANYBODY TO JOIN.
I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD EVER GET TO THAT POINT.
BUT IF YOU HAVE A FAILING SYSTEM, YOU CAN, YOU, YOU HAVE TO JOIN BY STAPLES.
[00:35:01]
SO DID YOU SAY THAT AGAIN? IF THE, WHAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAS NOT NEVER FORCED ANYBODY TO JOIN, BUT IF, IF, IF YOU HAVE A SEPTIC SYSTEM AND IT'S FAILING AND YOU HAVE SEWER AVAILABLE, YOU ARE REQUIRED BY, I THINK THE BOARD OF HEALTH TO JOIN TO, TO CONNECT.QUITE, QUITE OFTEN TOO, IF IT'S SO MANY FEET BACK OFF OF THE ROAD, THEY DON'T MAKE YOU TIE IN.
THIS, THIS BOARD AND PREVIOUS BOARDS HAVE, I THINK THERE WAS ONE MOTION AT ONE POINT IN TIME TO MAKE, TO REQUIRE PEOPLE TO CONNECT.
AND THAT WAS PROBABLY, I WOULD SAY GOING ON 15 YEARS AGO, THIS BOARD DOES NOT HAVE ANY DESIRE TO FORCE PEOPLE TO CONNECT.
I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE A PERFECTLY FUNCTIONING OR A FUNCTIONING SYSTEM, KEEP USING IT.
BUT WHEN THAT SYSTEM FAILS, THAT'S WHEN YOU NEED TO CONNECT.
BUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS THERE.
AND WHAT ONE OF THE THINGS THEY ADOPTED AT THE MEETING ON MONDAY WAS THE, THE BENEFIT ASSESSMENT.
AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS A PRICE IS PUT ON EVERY LINEAR FOOT OF IT.
SO IF I GO TO CONNECT IN 10 YEARS, I AM PAYING THE TOWNSHIP BACK FOR A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THAT PIPE AS A RESIDENT.
SO THAT'S A, IT IS USUALLY EIGHT, $10,000, SOMETHING LIKE THAT THAT GETS ADDED TO IT.
AND THAT JUST GOES BACK INTO WHERE SEWER FUND YEAH.
THERE ARE SOME NUMBERS IN THIS PACKAGE TO TALK DEAL ABOUT.
SO, BUT WHAT I NEED YOU TO DO IS I NEED A, A MOTION AND A RECOMMENDATION OR A MOTION THAT ALLOWS TOM TO SIGN THIS, UM, FOR A, SO WE NEED A MOTION TO SAY THAT WE ARE, UH, RECOMMENDING THAT, UM, NO, JUST A, A MOTION SAYING THAT, THAT THEY, YOU ARE, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SIGN THIS ON BEHALF OF THE OH, OKAY.
SIGN THE DOCUMENT THAT THE, THAT YOU, OKAY.
SO, UH, I NEED A MOTION TO ALLOW ME AS CHAIRMAN AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION SIGN THIS DOCUMENT THAT WE ARE, UH, UH, RECOMMENDING THIS PROCESS.
UH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT, UH, THE CHAIR OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION BE, UH, UH, APPROVED TO SIGN THE, UH, SEWAGE PLANNING MODULE COMPONENT FOR A FORM.
FOR WHAT? WHO'S THAT? A UH, SO WE HAVE A MOTION FOR JERRY.
DO WE HAVE SECONDED? I'LL SECOND IT.
CAN YOU SAY AYE OR ARE YOU STILL THINK I'M SAY AYE.
UM, THE, THE ONE THING WE TALK ABOUT KEEPING OPEN SPACE, WE COULD SLOW DEVELOPMENT UP BY NOT NECESSARILY PUTTING PUBLIC SOURCE IN.
I WILL SAY THAT THERE'S VERY FEW AREAS LEFT IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT AREN'T STEWARD.
IT'S KIND OF SMALL, SMALL PATCHWORK THING.
SO THE PROJECTS THAT ARE LEFT, LIKE THE KIND PEOPLE, THEY, THEY'RE WILLING TO DO IT ANYHOW.
THEY'RE WILLING TO PUT THE STORAGE.
THIS IS ONE OF THOSE, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE.
AND, AND I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY PHONE CALLS I'VE GOTTEN, BUT THAT, THAT OF PEOPLE THAT ALREADY LIVE THERE THAT WANT TO CONNECT AND THEY'RE, AND THEY'RE ALSO PAYING FOR THE PUMP STATION.
SO I MEAN, THAT'S ALL THAT'S ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED.
THAT'S SAY, SO YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE TO PROVE IT.
BUT IF THEY DO EVERYTHING RIGHT, EXPLAIN EVERYTHING ELSE.
WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO CONNECT JUST FOR THESE FIVE HOUSES.
THE TOWNSHIP'S ROLE REALLY IS DOWN TO CATCHING THOSE FEW STRAGGLERS THAT ARE LEFT THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE JUST NEED TO CONNECT.
BUT YOU HAVE AN ABSOLUTE POINT, BOB.
IF WE WERE 25 YEARS AGO, THAT'S HOW WE WOULD DO IT.
AND EVEN THE BEGINNING OF MY TENURE AT WASTEMAN PLANNING GROUP, WHEN I FIRST STARTED WORKING IN THIS TOWNSHIP, ONE OF THE COMMENTS WE HAD TO PUT IN EVERY LETTER WAS, UNTIL THE SEWER PLANT IS ONLINE, THERE ARE NO AVAILABLE EDS.
SO YOU WILL, YOU CANNOT DEVELOP UNTIL THESE ED ARE AVAILABLE.
NOW, THE SEWER PLAN CAME ONLINE SHORTLY AFTER, AND THERE'S PLENTY OF EDS.
AND SO NOW WHEN HE, WHEN, WHEN THE CLIENT DEVELOPER BUILDS THAT PUMP STATION AND DO ALL THAT, DOES THE, DOES THE WATER COMPANY HAVE TO TAKE THAT ON? NO, IT'S, IT, IT WILL BE GIVEN TO THE TOWNSHIP.
THE TOWNSHIP, THE PUMP, THE PUMP STATION IS A SEWER PUMP.
SO IT, IT WILL, THE TOWNSHIP WILL TAKE CONTROL OF IT.
OKAY, BUT WHO, WHO, THAT'S, THAT'S PENN DOESN'T THAT, ISN'T THAT UH, UH, PENNSYLVANIA WATER? NO, NO.
PENNSYLVANIA WATER DOES LIKE SOME SEWAGE TREATMENT IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
PENNSYLVANIA WATER'S SEPARATE.
SO THEY HAVE A WATER LINE THAT GOES IN SEW.
IT'S LOWER PER LOWER PERM AND VALLEY REGIONAL SEWER AUTHORITY, YOU KNOW WHERE THE CONVENTION CENTER IS? YEAH.
THAT BIG SEWER YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
WHERE THE TOWERS GO, ET CETERA.
THE WAY IT WORKS IN THIS TOWNSHIP IS THE TOWNSHIP OWNS ALL OF ITS OWN.
ITS PUMP STATIONS, ITS PIPES, ALL OF THAT.
[00:40:01]
WE CONVEY IT TO THE SEWER AUTHORITY FOR THEM TO PROCESS THE SEWER AUTHORITY OWNS SOME LATERALS, THINGS LIKE THAT, I THINK.BUT GENERALLY, WE OWN MOST OF THE PIPES AND THE PUMPS ALMOST PICO IN A WAY.
YOU KNOW, PICO CAN DISTRIBUTE IT ALL, SEND YOU THE BILL, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.
AND YET THERE'S A GENERATOR ALSO THAT, THAT MAKES THE, WELL, THIS IS JUST THE OPPOSITE.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
AGENDA, WE CANCELED DECEMBER 17TH.AND AGAIN, REMEMBER DECEMBER 18TH IS THE CONSULTANT SHINDIG.
THAT'S THURSDAY AT BLOCK 29 AT 12 O'CLOCK.
UM, JANUARY 7TH WOULD BE OUR NEXT MEETING.
AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE GONNA HAVE SPRING FORD WALK, WHICH IS THE TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT ADJACENT TO FORD'S EDGE, I THINK.
IT'S, IT IS PARTIALLY, I, I KNOW THERE WAS A LEARNING HEARING BOARD ABOUT IT, BUT GENERALLY IT'S, IT IS THE GREEN SPACE NEXT TO FORD'S EDGE THAT HOW MANY PLACES THEY WANNA PUT IN THERE? 26.
NOW COMPARE THAT TO THE ONE THAT'S BEING DEVELOPED RIGHT NOW WITH TOWN HOMES.
WHICH, WHICH ONE? ONE UP THE CORNER.
IS THAT 26 TOO? I MURRAY CIRCLE IS, YEAH.
I MEAN, I ASSUME THERE, THAT'S THEIR GOAL.
SO WE'LL HAVE THEM ON THAT AGENDA.
AND THEN ONCE WE GET THROUGH JANUARY 7TH, AND ACTUALLY WE'LL ALSO HAVE, UM, REORGANIZATION THAT ON THAT MEETING BECAUSE THAT'S OUR FIRST MEETING OF THE YEAR.
UM, I KNOW WE HAVE TO HAVE TWO PEOPLE APPOINTED BACK, TOM AND, AND JOE.
UM, THEIR TERMS ARE UP THIS YEAR.
I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN, THAN THEY WILL BE APPOINTED BACK.
IT CERTAINLY WILL BE MY RECOMMENDATION IF THE BOARD LISTENS TO ME ON THAT TO HAVE THEM BACK, UM, EIGHT YEARS ALREADY NOW.
AND THEN THE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL ON JANUARY 21ST, THAT AGENDA TO BE DISCUSSED.
IS THAT MAYBE THE SECOND MEETING IN JANUARY? YEAH, I THINK THAT WILL BE, I JUST DIDN'T HAVE ROOM ON THE SLIDE FOR IT.
I JUST WAS, THAT'S NORMALLY WHERE YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A, A APPLICANT UNLESS THEY STRESSED THEY HAD THAT DAY.
AND I DON'T, I, IF, IF WE GET SPRINGFIELD WALK IN LOVE'S LANE ON THE SEVENTH, THERE'S NO REASON THAT THAT MEETING WILL HAVE AN APPLICANT ON IT.
UNLESS SOMETHING NEW COMES UP.
BUT IF NOT, AND I, AGAIN, I'LL ALSO HAVE THE YEAR, UM, IN REVIEW THAT'S TECHNICALLY NOT DUE UNTIL MARCH, BUT I WILL TRY TO PUT THAT TOGETHER FOR HOPEFULLY THE JANUARY MEETING AS WELL.
JUST TO GET THAT DONE OUTTA THE WAY YOU, I PRODUCE A REPORT, IF YOU LIKE THE REPORT, IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH THE, WITH WHAT THE REPORT SAYS, WHICH IS REALLY JUST FACTUAL INFORMATION ABOUT HOW MANY LAND DEVELOPMENTS WE SAW, HOW MANY WE RECOMMENDED, WHAT RECOMMENDATIONS WE MADE, HOW MANY MEETINGS WE HAD, STUFF LIKE THAT.
UM, THAT GETS PUSHED ONTO THE, IF IT YOU ACCEPT IT, IT GETS MOVED TO THE BOARD FOR THEIR ADOPTION OR FOR THEIR REVIEW.
AND YOU'RE GONNA DO THAT FOR THE SEVENTH OR THE, I THINK I'LL PROBABLY DO THAT FOR THE, FOR THE SECOND MEETING.
SO THAT MEANS THAT WE'RE READY TO TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
I'LL SETTLE THOSE THAT WE ADJOURN THE MEETING.