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[CALL TO ORDER / MOTION TO APPROVE NOVEMBER 19, 2025 AGENDA]
GOOD EVENING.THEY'VE BEEN CALL TO ORDER THE P COMMISSION MEETING FOR WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 19TH.
UM, AND, UH, IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY, I THINK THEY'RE BACK IN THE BACK WHERE THERE IS, UM, UM, COPIES OF THE AGENDA.
SO, UH, THE FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS WILL BE TO APPROVE THE AGENDA THAT'S IN FRONT OF US.
AND, UH, ANY COMMENTS? JERRY? JOE, BOB, ANY COMMENTS ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT? IF NOT, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
BOB MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THAT.
SO, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS. DO WE HAVE ANYBODY HERE TONIGHT THAT WANTS TO TALK ABOUT, UH, UH, YOU DON'T HAVE THE MINUTES IN HERE, HUH? JEFF? NO.
WE ONLY HAVE THE MINUTES AT THE FIRST MEETING OF THE MORNING.
DID ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON NON AGENDA ITEMS? THE TWO, THE TWO APPLICANTS WE HAVE ON HERE TONIGHT? I HAD A COUPLE, A COUPLE THINGS I WANTED TO SAY, UH, TO CLEAN UP SOME HOUSEKEEPING THINGS.
UH, NUMBER ONE, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR YOU PEOPLE OUT THERE, BUT, UM, THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAD ASKED ME EARLIER THIS YEAR TO LOOK INTO A, UH, SUPERVISOR BEING ASSIGNED OR BEING OUR LIAISON TO THE SUPERVISORS.
AKA, UM, MARIA, IS THAT FOR THE PARKS AND RECREATION BOARD? UM, SHE WAS NAMED THE LIAISON.
I'VE TALKED TO, UM, A COUPLE OF SUPERVISORS ABOUT THAT.
AND, UH, THERE IS NO FORM SHE WAS FORMALLY NAMED, BUT THERE IS NO FORMAL PROCESS IN ANY KIND OF DOCUMENT OUT THERE THAT SAYS, HERE'S MY RESPONSIBILITIES.
UM, THERE'S NOTHING OUT THERE.
I CHECKED WITH SUE TOO, WHO'S, UH, OUR DIRECTOR OF PARK RECREATION.
SHE SAYS, NO, THERE'S NO OFFICIAL DOCUMENT THAT SAYS THIS IS WHAT SHE DOES OR WHAT SHE DOEST DO.
BILL, UH, IS NOT FOR, I SHOULDN'T SAY THAT.
BILL WASN'T, DIDN'T SEE THE NECESSITY FOR IT.
UM, HE DID SAY THOUGH, UM, THAT ANYBODY ON THIS COMMISSION CAN CALL HIM AT ANY TIME, ASK HIM QUESTIONS, GIVE THEIR CONCERNS, UM, OFFER SUGGESTIONS.
HE'LL CALL YOU BACK OR LISTEN TO ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO CALL HIM AT ANY TIME.
BUT HE WASN'T NECESSARILY IN FAVOR OF HAVING SOME SORT OF, AND THERE'S NO FORMAL DOCUMENT THAT SAYS WHAT THOSE JOBS ARE.
SO AT THIS POINT, I THINK IT'S A DONE ISSUE.
WE'RE GOING TO, UH, JUST, UH, YOU KNOW, USE BILL INDIVIDUALLY, IF YOU WANT TO CALL HIM AT ANY TIME.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A FORMAL MEETING.
JUST CALL HIM AND ASK HIM A QUESTION AND HE'LL, HE'LL BE GLAD TO, UH, RESPOND.
SO, ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON THAT? JOE, WE, ANYTHING FOR YOU? NO, THAT, THAT'S FINE.
I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND BILL'S POSITION, UM, AND, UH, WE, WE CAN DO THAT AND WE'LL, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD.
AND IF WE, IF THERE ARE ISSUES IN THE FUTURE THAT WE THINK ARE APPROPRIATE TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE AGAIN OR THAT, SO WE, WE COULD DO THAT.
UH, THE SECOND THING WAS, I JUST WANTED TO TALK ABOUT LAST MONTH.
WAS IT LAST MONTH? YEAH, I GUESS IT WAS.
WAS IT, OR EARLY THIS MONTH? FIRST MONTH, MONTH.
THE VOTE WE TOOK ON, UM, OUR FRIENDS HERE FROM HTC, UM, THERE WAS A, IT WAS A FOUR TO ONE VOTE.
AND I THINK THAT I JUST DON'T WANT TO BE MISCONSTRUED FOR YOU.
PEOPLE THAT I AM WASN'T AGAIN, OR WASN'T FOR, WASN'T IN FAVOR OF CONDITIONS.
I'M CERTAINLY IN FAVOR OF CONDITIONS.
I THINK THAT WE JUST, I THINK THE BOARD AND MYSELF, WE JUST HAD THE SAME GOAL, BUT DIFFERENT WAYS OF GETTING TO THAT GOAL.
I, I WAS OKAY WITH JEFF AND ZACH COMING UP WITH THOSE THINGS, UM, AND LETTING THEM WORK THAT OUT WITH YOU AND MOVING IT FORWARD.
THESE GUYS WANNA SEE THAT BEFORE IT MOVES FORWARD.
SO PLEASE DON'T MISCON EXCUSE THAT, UM, THAT WE ALL ARE ON THE SAME GOAL IN TERMS OF WE ALL WANT TO MAKE SURE THESE CONDITIONS ARE MET, AGREED TO.
EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME PAGE BEFORE THE THING MOVES FORWARD.
SO, AGAIN, I, UH, JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT MY VOTE OF THE NO WAS UNDERSTOOD YOU.
UM, SO WITH THAT, UM, UH, NO OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT ON ANYTHING, UH, WE'LL GO ON TO, UH, GENERAL DISCUSSIONS.
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON NOVEMBER 19, 2025]
HEAR THE APPLICANTS TONIGHT.AND THE FIRST ONE IS YOU FOLKS, JUST MAKE SURE YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF AGAIN JUST FOR THE, FOR THE SPEAKER ABOVE YOU.
UM, WE ARE HERE TONIGHT ON BEHALF OF HTC ASSOCIATES.
MY NAME IS LOGAN SCOTT, AND THIS HERE IS LOU GAMBONE.
AND, UH, WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS AND RESPECTFULLY STATE THAT WE DO NOT AGREE WITH ALL OF THE PROPOSED CONDITIONS BEING POSED UPON OUR PROJECT.
[00:05:01]
F 5 92 MENNONITE ROAD.NOW, YOU GUYS, YOU GUYS, YOU GUYS ALL OBVIOUSLY TALK THOUGH, RIGHT? YOU AND ZACH ARE TALKING.
WELL, WE HAVE, UM, THE SAME CONDITIONS THAT I CIRCULATE TO YOU, I CIRCULATED TO THEM.
UM, LOGAN HAS RESPONDED TO 'EM.
I THINK IT'S, I I THINK IT'S BEST YOU RESPONDED TO THE BOTH MEETING LIKE YOU'RE DOING.
THESE ARE JUST WHAT ZACH AND I WROTE THINKING, YOU KNOW, OF EVERYTHING THAT WAS COMMENTED ON THAT MEETING, LOOKING AT THAT MEETING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS, CAN SEND THEM ALL ALONG, SEND NONE OF THEM ALONG, CHANGE THEM, WHATEVER THEY WANT TO DO FOR THE BOARD.
AND, AND THE BOARD WILL TAKE THEM UNDER CONSIDERATION FOR WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR CONDITIONAL USE HEARING.
TONIGHT, OUR ONLY ROLE AS THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
I MEAN, THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS A, WE'RE A RECOMMEND WE PROVIDE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
YOU KNOW, GUYS, YOU DO NOT GRANT APPROVALS.
YOU JUST MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
THIS IS A FRAMEWORK, AS JEFF SAID, AS TO WHAT THE COMMENTS WERE AND, AND THE GENERAL FEELINGS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION, I THINK.
AND I THINK WE CAPTURED THOSE.
UM, TO THE EXTENT THAT THE APPLICANT DISAGREES WITH SOME OF THOSE CONDITIONS, I THINK THAT WE'RE, WE'RE MORE THAN OPEN TO HEARING WHAT THOSE, UH, DISAGREEMENTS ARE.
AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION CAN CHOOSE TO SEND THESE AS WRITTEN, REVISE THEM, NOT SEND THEM AT ALL.
MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, NOT MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
I MEAN, THIS IS ON THE AGENDA FOR A CONDITIONAL USE HEARING AT THE DECEMBER 1ST MEETING.
THE APPLICANT AT THAT TIME WILL HAVE A BURDEN, AND THEY WILL HAVE A DUTY TO PRESENT EVIDENCE.
IT'S GONNA BE A HEARING, THERE'S GONNA BE A STENOGRAPHER.
THEY'RE GONNA GO THROUGH THAT WHOLE PROCESS.
WHAT'S THE EXACT, WHEN, WHEN, UM, DECEMBER 1ST.
SO THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A BURDEN TO MEET AT THAT HEARING THAT THEY NEED TO SATISFY IN ORDER TO GET THE CONDITIONAL USE APPROVAL.
THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS THAT YOU GUYS ULTIMATELY DECIDE ON IF YOU DECIDE TO SEND RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS, WILL GO TO THE BOARD.
THE BOARD CAN REVIEW THEM, REVIEW THEM IN LIGHT OF THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY HEAR DURING THE HEARING.
THEY CAN CHOOSE TO IMPOSE THEM, NOT IMPOSE THEM HOWEVER THEY WANT TO DO IT.
SO REALLY, THIS IS, I THINK, BEST TO BE DESCRIBED AS A SUMMATION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S OPINION AS TO WHAT CONDITIONS COULD, SHOULD BE REASONABLY IMPOSED ON THE APPLICANT.
DO YOU HEAR THEM TONIGHT? AND YOU SAY, YEP, WE AGREE.
WE DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S NECESSARY.
WE CAN ADD ADDITIONAL THINGS IN THERE IF YOU SEE ANYTHING.
BUT I, I THINK THAT THAT'S THE SETTING THE STAGE FOR, FOR WHAT THE ROLE OF EVERYONE IS HERE TONIGHT.
SO IN HEARING THAT, UM, I THINK THAT ZACH AND JEFF DID A GOOD JOB OF PUTTING TOGETHER THE OVERALL FRAMEWORK OF OBJECTIONS ARE, ARE, UH, THINGS WE NEED TO MAKE SURE ARE COVERED CONDITIONS, CONDITIONS RIGHT.
AND, UM, UM, BUT WE'RE WILLING TO TALK NOW.
AND IS IT, DOES IT MAKE SENSE BEFORE IT GOES IN FRONT OF THE SUPERVISOR? DID YOU GUYS CONTINUE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS? WELL, ZACH
I MEAN, I, I THINK THAT WE KNOW, I MEAN, MS. SCOTT SENT US AN EMAIL KIND OF SUMMARIZING WHAT THEIR POSITION WAS ON EACH OF THOSE CONDITIONS.
AGAIN, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE AN EVIDENTIARY BURDEN TO PUT ON BEFORE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO THE EXTENT WE CAN REACH AGREEMENT ON CONDITIONS EVEN DURING THAT HEARING.
UM, WE CAN, UH, AGREEMENT ISN'T NECESSARILY REQUIRED.
UM, CONDITIONS CAN BE IMPOSED BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE APPLICANT AGREES WITH THAT, IF THEY'RE BASED IN THE ORDINANCE OR THEY'RE BASED IN SOME REASONABLE ISSUE THAT'S RAISED DURING THE HEARINGS.
SO, YOU KNOW, I I, THIS IS A FLUID THING AND CERTAINLY WE WILL, WE'RE OPEN TO HAVING MORE CONVERSATIONS AND TRYING TO REACH AN AGREEMENT, BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED.
WELL, PERHAPS, PERHAPS YOU CAN TELL US WHAT OF THESE CONDITIONS OR WHAT PART OF THE CONDITIONS YOU AREN'T.
SO I, I, I GUESS SO, SO INCLINED TO WANT TO AGREE WITH, AND, AND AT LEAST GIVE US A PERSPECTIVE FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW.
WOULD YOU GUYS LIKE TO GO OVER THEM ONE BY ONE OR DO YOU WANT TO JUST TALK ABOUT THE ONES YOU, MY RECOMMENDATION IS YOU TELL US.
I READ THESE CONDITIONS AND I THINK THESE REPRESENT WHAT WE'VE DISCUSSED.
AND SO YOU TELL US WHAT YOU DON'T THINK YOU, YOU'RE, SO YOU HAVE AN OBJECTION WITH ALL SIX? NO.
BUT JUST FOR THE RECORD, WE, WE DID RESPOND.
WHAT ARE, WHERE ARE THE PROBLEMS? OKAY.
AND, UH, OBVIOUSLY, UH, THERE MIGHT HAVE NOT BEEN A TIME TO COMMUNICATE THESE CONCERNS.
UH, YOU KNOW, SO WE'RE HERE, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TO, TO TALK ABOUT THIS.
WELL, THEN IF YOU WANT TO PRACTICE YOUR, YOUR HEARING, UH, EVIDENCE, PLEASE PRACTICE WITH US.
WE'LL SAY, HEY, THIS DOESN'T SOUND REASONABLE.
BUT I, AS ZACH JUST SAID, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO THAT ON DECEMBER 1ST AGAIN, RIGHT.
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YOU KNOW, BRING THIS UP AND, AND YEAH.SO NUMBER ONE BEING, UM, THE HOURS OF OPERATION FOR 10 OUTDOOR EVENTS, OR ANY OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES NOT BEING HELD WITHIN THE, A AGRI STRUCTURES BEING LIKE COURTYARDS OR LAWNS SHALL BE LIMITED TO OCCURRING BETWEEN THE FOLLOWING HOURS, MONDAY TO THURSDAY, 10:00 AM TO SUNSET, FRIDAY AND SATURDAY, 10:00 AM TO SUNSET SUNDAY, 10:00 AM TO 8:00 PM OR SUNSET, WHICHEVER OCCURS EARLIER.
UM, ALL THAT WE ARE ASKING FOR IS THAT WE GOT THIS AGRI TEAM ORDINANCE ADOPTED FOR A REASON, AND IT HAS THESE TIMES, AND WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT THE OUTDOOR EVENTS FALL WITHIN THE SAME, UM, THRESHOLD THAT THE, THAT THE AG AGRI TEAM ORDINANCE OUTLINES.
SO WE, WE GOT THIS ORDINANCE DONE, AND I, UH, ZACH, YOU, YOU OKAY WITH ME, UH, ADDRESSING YOU BY YOUR FIRST NAME? SURE.
SO ZACH CAME BACK WITH THE TIMES, UH, THAT WE WERE GOOD WITH FOR THE ORDINANCE.
WE AGREED WITH IT, WE THOUGHT IT WAS FAIR, AND IT WORKED WITH, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR OUR OPERATION.
JUST BEFORE I REMEMBER, WHAT ARE THOSE HOURS? I HAVE THEM RIGHT HERE.
10 O'CLOCK, I THINK 10 O'CLOCK, UH, MONDAY THROUGH THURSDAY AT 11, FRIDAY, SATURDAY, AND I'M NOT SURE.
SO MONDAY AND THURSDAY, 10:00 AM TO 10:00 PM MONDAY THROUGH THURSDAY, FRIDAYS AND SATURDAY, 10:00 AM TO 11:00 PM AND SUNDAYS IS 10:00 AM TO 8:00 PM.
AND, UM, IF, IF I CAN JUST KIND OF PROVIDE THE RATIONALE FOR WHY WE SET THE TIME WHERE IT WAS, WAS THAT, UM, PERSONALLY, I, I DON'T KNOW IF THE OUTSIDE EVENTS ARE AN AUTOMATIC IN TERMS OF THIS, THIS USE, THE USE THAT'S PERMITTED IS PRIVATE PARTIES AND EVENTS TOTALLY WITHIN THOSE STRUCTURES, ONCE DEEMED FOR AGRICULTURAL USES AND RENOVATED TO COMPLY WITH CURRENT BUILDING CODES.
SO I THINK THAT TO THE EXTENT THEY'RE GOING OUTSIDE OF THOSE STRUCTURES, WHICH THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS AROUND SOUNDPROOFING AND TRYING TO LIMIT DISTURBANCE TO NEIGHBORS, THE ISSUE THAT THEY'RE RUNNING INTO, AND I I, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THEM BEING ABLE TO HAVE OUTDOOR EVENTS, BUT I THINK THAT IT IS REASONABLE TO PUT ON SOME ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS IN TERMS OF USING THE OUTDOOR AREA, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT GETS INTO EVENTS THAT ARE LATER AT NIGHT.
THEY'RE GONNA HAVE LOUDER MUSIC AND LOUDER EVENTS THAT THEY'RE GONNA BE MORE DISRUPTIVE TO NEIGHBORING PROPERTY OWNERS.
SO ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THAT THESE OUTDOOR TENTED EVENTS ARE NOT GONNA HAVE ANY OF THE SOUNDPROOFING THAT YOU HAVE INSIDE THE BUILDING.
SO THAT WAS THE RATIONALE FOR THE CONDITIONS AS WRITTEN, AT LEAST THOSE ONES THAT LATER UP.
AND, AND I AGREE WITH YOUR, YOUR COMMENT, ZACH, AND, AND I THINK THAT THE ISSUE ABOUT SOUND IN KNOW, IN THAT ENVIRONMENT IS KIND OF COVERED BY NUMBER TWO.
UM, AND, AND BOTH, IN FACT, BOTH ONE AND TWO.
IT'S JUST THE HOURS THAT YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT, CORRECT? I AM.
AND HERE'S THE THING ABOUT JUST THE HOURS.
FIRST OF ALL, WHEN WE CAME IN TO DO THIS, I'M JUST BRINGING THIS UP TO BE TRANSPARENT, IS THAT WE DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH SPECIAL EVENT, UH, PERMITTING, YOU KNOW, FOR OUR OUTDOOR EVENTS OR THE INDOOR, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOMETHING REPETITIOUS, I MEAN, MANY TIMES WE RUN BACK AND FORTH TO THE TOWNSHIP TO DO A SPECIAL EVENT PERMIT, THEN HAVE THE FIRE, YOU KNOW, IT JUST WASN'T GONNA WORK.
AND THAT INCLUDED THE OUTDOOR STUFF WE WERE LOOKING TO DO.
AGAIN, SOME OUTDOOR, UH, BIRTHDAY PARTIES FOR KIDS PONY RIDES.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, UH, MAYBE SOME CEREMONIES, THIS STUFF, I MEAN, WE WEREN'T AGAIN, LOOKING TO HAVE CONCERTS AND LOUD MUSIC.
AND IF WE ARE DOING A TENT, UH, EVENT, WE WERE LOOKING TO, IF, IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT WAS GONNA HAVE SOME LIVE MUSIC, WE HAVE A MEANS OF PUTTING IN SOME SOUNDPROOFING MATS THEY HAVE NOW THESE DAYS, ALL KINDS OF STUFF.
AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO BLAST SPEAKERS OUT THERE OR HAVE LIVE MUSIC THAT, I MEAN, YOU GUYS HAVE A, A NOISE ORDINANCE IN THE TOWNSHIP HOURS AND, AND TIMES THAT, AGAIN, WHETHER IT'S CONSTRUCTION, WHETHER IT'S A PARTY.
SO WE KNOW WHAT WE HAVE TO BE IN TIMEFRAME WISE TO TONE THE SOUND DOWN, YOU KNOW, TO INSTEAD OF BEING DISRUPTIVE TO THE NEIGHBORS.
WELL, LET'S, LET'S MAKE IT SIMPLE.
IS YOUR OBJECTION STRICTLY FOR ITEM ONE AND PERHAPS I FORGET, ITEM TWO, ITEM ONE, STRICTLY THE HOURS.
IT, IT IS KIND OF CONTRADICTORY ABOUT LIKE THE MUSIC IT SAYS HERE, AND THAT'S MY POINT.
YEAH, NO, UH, YEAH, IT'S KIND OF CONTRADICTORY HERE AS TO WHAT'S HERE.
IT'S LIKE, NO MUSIC THEN, BUT KEEP THE MUSIC DOWN.
I MEAN, SO I, I DIDN'T GET, I DIDN'T GET WORDS.
IF YOU KEEP THE MUSIC DOWN, IT'S OKAY.
SO YEAH, I MEAN, WE, WE AGREE WITH, KEEP IT TELLING ME IT'S BOTH TIME AND NOISE, CORRECT? YEAH.
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YEAH.YOU KNOW, YOU'VE WORKED ON A LONG WAY TO, UH, IMPRESS US AND EVERYONE THAT IN THE BARN, WHICH IS GOING TO BE THE MAIN WEDDING VENUE THAT YOU'RE PUTTING THREE AND A HALF INCHES OF INSULATION IN THE MIN TO ELIMINATE, IF THAT'S POSSIBLE.
AND NOW IF YOU HAVE AN OUTDOOR EVENT WITH A TENT, WHICH HAS, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN PUT ALL THE SOUNDPROOFING ON THE GROUND, YOU WANT TO PUT, YOU KNOW, PLASTIC SCREENING, WHATEVER ONE, BUT THE NOISE ISSUE, YOU CAN'T ELIMINATE THAT.
AND, AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THIS, YOU KNOW, SUNSET ISSUE WAS PERHAPS PUT IN HERE IS THAT, AND, AND NO NOISE AT ALL, THAT IT KEEPS THE, THE ENVIRONMENT IN THE RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY AT A BARE MINIMUM ONLY DURING DAYLIGHT HOURS.
WELL, MY, MY QUESTION TO THIS BOARD, AND I'LL ASK EVERYBODY'S OPINION, BUT JUST TO THINK OUT LOUD HERE, I'M THINKING OUT LOUD, UM, A HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET FROM THIS VENUE DECIDES TO HAVE A BIRTHDAY PARTY, AND THEY HIRE A DJ.
THEY HAVE, WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE FOR MUSIC AND SOUND NORTH.
WHY WOULDN'T THE, WHY WOULD THESE FOLKS BE ASKED TO BEAT THAT SAME RESPECTABILITY OF THAT ORDINANCE ONLY? WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE DIFFERENT FOR THEM? ONLY BECAUSE IN MY OPINION, THIS IS NOT GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS ONCE A YEAR FOR A BIRTHDAY PARTY ACROSS THE STREET.
BUT YOU HAVE A WHOLE, YOU HAVE 10 HOUSES ACROSS THE STREET, AND EVERYONE HAS A PARTY.
IT'S MORE THAN ONCE A WELL, I MEAN, IN MY, IN MY OPINION, THE NOISE ISSUE IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST.
WELL, WE, WE NOW, NOW, THE HOURS WE NEED TO BE, THE HOURS WE CAN DEAL WITH, RIGHT? BUT WE NEED TO BE RESPECTFUL IN THE SENSE OF THE NEIGHBORS.
AND THERE'S A DECIMAL OF SOUND THAT WE'VE DONE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF SOUND STUDIES, SO WE UNDERSTAND HOW THE SOUND TRAVELS NOW.
AND, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, UH, AND I AGREE WITH YOU ON TOM.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ALL OVER THE TOWNSHIP, HOW MANY PARTIES OR, OR A MONTH, WHATEVER, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? SO I FEEL LIKE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF, AND I'M NOT GONNA USE DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE FACT THAT I'M BEING HELD TO A DIFFERENT STANDARD.
AND I, AND I, AND AGAIN, THERE'S A DECIMAL THAT WE GOTTA BE RESPECTFUL TO AND, AND HOW MUCH ARE WE GOING TO BE ABLE TO, UH, UH, BE IN THE SUCCESS LEVEL TO DO IF WE ARE DISRUPTING PEOPLE? I MEAN, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.
AND I JUST WANT, LISTEN, I'M BEING TRANSPARENT.
I, AND, AND WHETHER OR NOT WE DISAGREE, BUT WELL, IF, IF PERHAPS YOU KEPT, YOU KEPT THE HOURS TO SUNSET, I KNOW, BUT THE PROBLEM IS MAYBE, MAYBE THAT'S FINE.
IF THEY WANNA START SOMETHING AT ONE O'CLOCK AND, AND, AND IT IT ENDS AT FIVE, I MEAN, OR FOUR 30.
I MEAN, WHAT KIND OF EVENT ARE YOU TELLING PEOPLE THAT THEY CAN'T HAVE AND THEY CAN ONLY HAVE THREE HOURS? WELL, WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE ANY SOUNDPROOFING IN THE BARN.
LET LET THAT MUSIC, YOU KNOW, PER, PER PERMEATE THROUGH THE COMMUNITY AS WELL.
I MEAN, JERRY, THERE'S TWO STANDARDS HERE.
I, I, I WASN'T BEING ARGUMENTATIVE.
I JUST THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE TIME OF YEAR TOO.
I MEAN, THE SUNSET'S NOT FIVE O'CLOCK, RIGHT? CORRECT.
SO, SO IT'S THE NINE O'CLOCK AND THEN IT GOES DOWN AND THAT, SO OUR TIME CHANGES WITH THE SUN, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? WE'RE TRYING TO PLAN EVENTS.
SO WE WANT A TIME, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? WAIT A MINUTE.
SUN SETS AT EIGHT 30, BUT I HAVE TO CHECK, JOE, I HAVE TO CHECK THE TIME.
EVERY TIME I BOOK AN EVENT UP, SUN SETS IT AT 6 37.
NOW I'M JUST SAYING, I'M JUST TRYING TO, IF I TELL PEOPLE THESE ARE OUR HOURS OF OPERATION, THIS IS YOUR TIMES THAT YOU CAN HAVE THIS EVENT.
OH, LET ME WAIT TILL NEXT WEEK TO SEE WHAT THE TIME, THE SUN SETTING, THAT'S ALL.
WELL, THE ONLY TIME, YOU KNOW, I MIGHT BE MORE SYMPATHETIC TO YOUR CONCERN.
IT'S IS THE NOISE LEVEL THAT CONCERNS ME.
THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT I, THAT I, THAT BOTHERS ME PERSONALLY.
IT'S BEEN A CONCERN I THINK, FOR EVERYBODY.
AND WE'VE BEEN EXTREMELY MINDFUL ABOUT IT.
I MEAN, AND, AND, AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA GO THERE AFTER ALL THESE DISCUSSIONS AND CONVERSATIONS AND BLAST MUSIC, YOU KNOW, THAT EVERYBODY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS GOING TO HEAR NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IS GONNA HAPPEN.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE GONNA CONTROL THAT, BUT THAT'S ANOTHER STORY.
WELL, I, I WONDER IF YOU COULD AGREE TO IT A TIME INSTEAD OF THE SUNSET, WHICH IS KIND OF VAGUE.
MAYBE THERE'S A COMPROMISE THAT MAYBE THERE'S AN HOUR OF THE DAY THAT'S REASONABLE FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND REASONABLE FOR YOUR BUSINESS.
I MEAN, I, I THINK I'M, AGAIN, I'M, I'M IN AGREEMENT IF, IF IT'S OKAY WITH EVERYBODY TO EIGHT O'CLOCK, I THINK IT'S A A, A FAIR TIME.
IT, IT'S KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE.
UM, YOU KNOW, SO I'M OKAY WITH THAT.
PEOPLE WANNA START HAVING A PARTY AT ONE, TWO BEING VERY GENEROUS.
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IF THAT, IF THAT'S THE ONLY ISSUE ISSUE YOU IF, IF FOR ONE, FOR ITEMS NUMBER ONE AND TWO, IF THAT'S THE ONLY CHANGE YOU WANT TO MAKE, I THINK THAT'S VERY GENEROUS.BECAUSE MY, MY GUT FEELING IS THAT YOU SHOULDN'T BE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST, YOU SHOULD FOLLOW THE SAME RULES THAT EVERYBODY ELSE ASKED.
AND THE, UH, NOISE, AND AGAIN, THE NOISE OR, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT WHATEVER THE NOISE ORDINANCE IS IN THE, IN THE TOWNSHIP, YOU GUYS SHOULD FOLLOW THAT ORDINANCE.
AND THAT'S, I, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S FAIR ENOUGH FOR ME.
BUT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S VIEWS ON THAT RESOLUTION.
LIKE I SAID, ZACH'S THE ONE THAT GAVE US THE TIMES WE AGREED TO 'EM.
AND, AND THIS AGAIN, YOU KNOW, IS, IS IS AN EVENT SPACE THAT WE HAVE HERE.
SO IF WE CAN COME TO SOME, YOU KNOW, UH, IF, IF THAT'S OUR TIME, WE'RE CONTROLLED BY A SOUND ORDINANCE THAT YOU GUYS HAVE.
I MEAN, I, I, I, YOU KNOW, WE CAN PASS THAT.
SO IF WE PUT, IF WE CHANGE THIS 10:00 AM TO SUNSET, WE MAKE IT 10:00 AM TO 8:00 PM AND PASS THAT TO THE SUPERVISORS, YOU ARE OKAY WITH THAT POINT.
MAKE IT MARK, JUST FOR A, A FRAME OF REFERENCE, I ALSO WANT THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO REMEMBER THAT AS MUCH AS WE ARE IMPOSING CONDITIONS INDIVIDUALLY ON WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO DO, WE'RE ALSO IMPOSING CONDITIONS THAT WHOEVER MIGHT TAKE THIS OVER, WHICH MAY NOT BE MR. GAMBONE FOREVER, I'M ASSUMING NOT GOING FOREVER, BUT SOMEONE MAY EVENTUALLY TAKE THIS OVER, THAT IS ALSO GOING TO BE DONE BY THESE CONDITIONS WHO MAY NOT BE STANDING IN FRONT OF US MAKING THE SAME PROMISES.
SO JUST, I, I THINK IN TERMS OF MAKING THESE CONDITIONS, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ALSO THINK ABOUT, THIS ISN'T JUST NECESSARILY THEIR USE, LIKE THIS USE GOING FORWARD ON THE PROPERTY.
WE WILL BE ABLE TO USE THESE CONDITIONS.
SO, BUT, BUT I, AND I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S TRUE IN ALL A LOT OF CASES THAT WE HEAR EVERY DAY.
BUT, BUT I THINK THAT THEY'RE WILLING TO DO 8:00 AM OR EXCUSE ME, 8:00 PM I THINK THAT'S PRETTY GENEROUS.
AND, UM, I ABOUT GENEROUS IT IS OKAY, BECAUSE I THINK HE SHOULD, I THINK THEY SHOULD BE NO LESS THAN WHAT THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY HAS TO SEE.
TONY, HERE'S THE, HERE'S THE, THE ISSUE THAT I HAVE WITH IT.
I MEAN, I, I, I UNDERSTAND THE NOISE ORDINANCE AND, AND I UNDERSTAND THE POINT ABOUT NEIGHBORS MAYBE HAVING A PARTY.
WHAT, WHERE I COME OUT ON THIS IS BECAUSE WE'RE MAKING, SORT OF MAKING EXCEPTIONS HERE TO PERMIT THIS USE IN THIS PARTICULAR PLACE THAT I THINK THAT MAYBE THE OPERATING PARAMETERS COULD BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN SORT OF JUST ANYBODY WHO WENT AND GOT A, A, A PERMIT FOR A PARTY.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS A MORE CONSISTENT USE THEY'RE GONNA BE DOING, USING THIS EVERY WEEKEND AND ON A, ON A VERY REGULAR BASIS.
AND I THINK ON THE SUMMERTIME, SO SENSITIVE AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.
AND THAT'S A FAIR, THAT'S A FAIR POINT, JERRY.
MY, MY COUNTER TO THAT WOULD BE RIGHT DOWN THE STREET FROM THIS PLACE, THERE'S THIS BIG SWING POOL.
AND THEY HAD NO ORDINANCE OTHER THAN WHAT THEY'RE, YEAH.
WHAT THE TOWNSHIP HAS TODAY, IF THEY DID WANNA THROW A SWIMMING PARTY AND HAVE A DJ THERE, THEY HAVE NO OTHER ORDINANCE TO FOLLOW.
BUT WHAT THE NOISE ORDINANCE IS.
SO AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE BEING UNFAIR ASKING THESE FOLKS TO DO SOMETHING, BUT THE REST OF THE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO DO.
BUT DON'T FORGET THAT THIS, THIS, THIS ACREAGE IS SURROUNDED BY NOTHING BUT RESIDENTIAL.
SURROUNDED BY R ONE PROPERTIES.
UH, THE NINE OAKS SWIM CLUB IS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, I'M NOT SAYING THERE'S A LOT OF HOUSES AROUND NINE OAKS.
THERE'S SOME, THERE'S SO, SO, BUT THERE, NO, THERE ARE NO BANDS PLAYING AT NIGHT.
THERE'S NO SI MEAN, THEY SWIM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHEN THE KIDS FINISHED SWIMMING, BUT THEY COULD, THEY COULD HAVE A PARTY THERE AND, AND HAVE A VAN.
WELL, THEY DO HAVE PARTIES THERE AT THE TIME, JOE MEAN, WE'RE ON 12 ACRES.
WE'RE NOT ON AN ACRE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.
I'M SAYING WE HAVE 12 ACRES SURROUNDING US.
UM, ZACH, CAN, WE CAN, AS A RECOMMENDATION TO MOVE THIS FORWARD, CAN WE CHANGE IT AT THIS POINT TO EIGHT O'CLOCK WITH EVERYBODY'S AGREEING TO, TO THE SUPERVISORS? CAN WE MAKE THIS 10:00 AM IF EVERYBODY AGREES, WE'LL TAKE A VOTE ON IT TO 8:00 AM I'M GETTING CONFUSED.
8:00 PM I, I DON'T KNOW, HELP ME OUT HERE.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO VOTE ON EVERY SINGLE MODIFICATION.
I THINK THAT WE CAN SAY, IF IT SEEMS THE MAJORITY OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS AN AGREEMENT, THEN AT THE END WE CAN VOTE TO.
WHAT'S THE NEXT ONE THAT YOU GUYS ARE? ALRIGHT, NUMBER THREE, THE USE OF THE EXISTING DWELLING STRUCTURE FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE AGRI.
YOU SHALL ONLY COMMENCE ONCE THE PROPOSED AGRI USE HAS BEEN REDEVELOPED AND IS OPERATIONAL.
ONCE, ONCE AGAIN, THERE IS NO ORDINANCE AGAINST SHORT TERM RENTALS AIRBNB.
AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE BEING RESTRICTED TO NOT BEING ABLE TO DO THIS WHEN IT'S A PERMITTED USE WITHIN THE TOWNSHIP.
SO IT, IT IS ACTUALLY NOT A PERMITTED USE WITHIN THE TOWNSHIP, REALLY.
[00:25:01]
COURT CASES THAT SAY THAT SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DOES NOT EQUATE TO ALLOWING SHORT TERM RESIDENTIAL, BECAUSE SHORT TERM RESIDENTIAL IS INHERENTLY TRANSIENT, WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL SITUATION IS.SO YOU'RE TELLING ME THERE'S NO AIRBNB PERMITTED IN OTHER PROPERTY? IT, IT, IT'S, IT'S NOT A PERMITTED BY RIGHT.
IS THERE SAYING THAT YOU CAN'T, I I DON'T WHAT I'M SAYING, ZACH IS 'CAUSE I LOOKED FOR IT.
IT SAY YOU CANNOT DO, GIVE US AN EXAMPLE.
THIS WHAT, GIVE US AN EXAMPLE.
IF, IF THREE COUPLES WANT TO COME TO, UH, VELLA AND STAY THERE FOR THE WEEKEND, THEY'RE COMING THERE TO ENJOY THEMSELVES, USE THE FACILITY, UM, YOU KNOW, WORK OUT, HAVE COFFEE, WHATEVER, GO TO THE LOCAL, UH, SHOPPING AREAS, SHOP A LITTLE BIT, USE THE EATERIES, AND STAY IN A PLACE WHERE, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S A, IT IS A NICE GETAWAY.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO NOW, ONCE I THINK THAT THE OTHER STUFF KICKS IN A LITTLE HEAVIER, MAYBE THIS PLACE IS USED BY THE WEDDING, UH, YOU KNOW, PARTY MOST OF THE TIME.
BUT AGAIN, ALL OF OUR INFILL STUFF, YOU KNOW, IF THOSE DATES ARE AVAILABLE, I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO COME AND EDIT AND ENJOY IT.
I, I BELIEVE THAT WHEN YOU WERE HERE, YOU KNOW, LAST MEETING THAT YOU COMMENTED THAT IT WAS REALLY TO BE USED.
I GOT THE IMPRESSION SOLELY, BUT THAT MAY BE NOT TOTALLY CORRECT, BUT FOR WEDDING PARTIES TO STAY THERE, WHEN THE WEDDINGS WERE THERE, I DIDN'T, I THINK THEY, I DIDN'T THE PERMIT TOWARDS THAT RENT, RENT, THESE, THAT, THOSE PROPERTIES OUT DURING THE WEEK, FOR EXAMPLE, IT WOULD ONLY BE FOR THE, I GOT UP WHEN, WHEN I THINK MR. CLEMENT STARTED TALKING ABOUT THAT THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE ANY, I SAID, LET ME BE TRANSPARENT.
LET ME COME UP AND TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT I WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT WE, WE SURELY DO NEED.
AND, AND I, AND I KNOW ALL OF YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND THE POTENTIAL REVENUE, UH, STREAM HERE, THAT WE NEED TO OPERATE THIS PLACE SUCCESSFULLY.
THERE IS A TON OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE, WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, JUST THE LANDSCAPING AND, AND ALL THE THINGS, THE LIVESTOCK.
I MEAN, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE ALL OF THIS STUFF COULD BE UPKEPT.
I MEAN, HOW ABOUT IN THE WINTER WHEN SOME OF OUR, YOU KNOW, I MEAN WEDDINGS, I MEAN, IT, IT MOST LIKELY PROBABLY WILL BE DEAD, YOU KNOW, WITH EVENTS IN THE BARN.
BUT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE OUR AIRBNB, YOU KNOW, IS HELPING TO BRING SOME REVENUE IN TO KEEP THIS PLACE ON.
I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE TRULY TRYING TO SET, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS THING FOR SUCCESS.
I DON'T WANNA START CUTTING CORNERS.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO FILL IN THE THINGS THAT I THINK ARE GOING TO BE, AGAIN, THERE'S NO IMPACT TO THE COMMUNITY WHATSOEVER BY AIRBNB.
AND THIS, I COULD NOT COME UP WITH ONE THING, ONLY A BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY, SENDING PEOPLE OUT TO YOUR LOCAL PLACES TO SHOP TO EAT IF THEY'RE NOT FROM THE AREA AND, AND ENJOY IT.
SO AGAIN, IF SOMEBODY SAYS TO ME, HERE'S THE IMPACT THAT'LL HAVE TO THE HEALTH, WELFARE AND SAFETY TO THE COMMUNITY, I, I'D LIKE TO HEAR IT.
ANY COMMENTS ON THAT ONE, GUYS? NO, I, I, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THE SHORT TERM RENTAL.
I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH IT.
I THINK THAT IT'S A, IT, IT'S A REASONABLE REQUEST TO, TO GENERATE REVENUE.
AND AGAIN, WE WANT YOU TO BE SUCCESSFUL.
WE DON'T WANT YOU NOT TO BE, IT'D BE SILLY FOR US TO SAY WE DON'T WANT YOU TO BE SUCCESSFUL.
AND, AND TOM, ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO HURT THE COMMUNITY.
I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING HARMFUL AT IT.
JEFF, JEFF OR ZACH, DO YOU GUYS WANT TO EXPLAIN YOUR SIDE OF THAT? WHY, WHY YOU PUT THAT IN HERE? LIKE THAT? IT REALLY IS.
IF YOU WANT TO, IF YOU DON'T, THAT'S FINE.
IT, IT, IT IS JUST THERE, THERE'S SUCH A MULTITUDE OF USES THAT, I MEAN, WE'RE KIND OF WRITING A BLANK CHECK, LETTING THEM HAVE A BLANK CHECK, WHICH WE'RE OKAY WITH BECAUSE WE WANT THEM TO BE SUCCESSFUL.
BUT THERE, THERE ARE SOME LIMITATIONS.
I MEAN, THIS ONE SPECIFICALLY TALKS ABOUT REMOVING NUMBER THREE WAS REMOVING THE RESIDENTIAL, UM, YOU KNOW, SHORT TERM RENTALS DIRECTLY RELATED TO AG ENTERTAINMENT.
UM, MAYBE I'M COMBINING THAT WITH, UM, THE REMOVING THE EXISTING NON-CONFORMING MULTI-FAMILY DWELLING USE.
THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT I HAVE JUST TO BRING THE WHOLE POINT IS TO BRING THE PROPERTY INTO COMPLIANCE, WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S AN AIRBNB THERE, WE DON'T HAVE REGULATIONS ON IT.
AND MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THE TOWNSHIP NEEDS TO APPROACH, BUT IT IS, IT'S SOMETHING WE'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH.
AND IT'S AGAIN, TRYING TO, HOW DO WE ENFORCE ALL OF THIS? AND, AND HOW DOES, FROM A TOWNSHIP STANDPOINT, AND WE TALK ABOUT THIS WITH A LOT OF THINGS, HOW IS THE TOWNSHIP ENFORCING THIS IF WE JUST GET COMPLAINTS AND I'M OUT THERE A LOT, OR THE POLICE ARE OUT THERE A LOT.
AND THAT'S PART OF THE ISSUE WHY WE WRITE THESE THINGS IS TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO ENFORCE OR MAKE THE ENFORCEMENT A LITTLE MORE BLACK AND WHITE.
[00:30:03]
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO COVER ALL THE BASES.MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNOW, THAT THE COMMUNITY'S PROTECTED.
BUT, UH, CAN YOU GIMME A SCENARIO WHERE IF TWO PEOPLE ARE RENTING A ROOM IN THAT, IN THAT HOUSE, WHY THAT WOULD BE SOME KIND OF DETRIMENT TO THE COMMUNITY? YOU KNOW, I, I, YOU CAN MAKE UP AND YOU CAN SAY A WHAT IF ABOUT ANYTHING.
I DON'T WANNA SPECULATE ON WHAT, WHAT IF WE ALREADY, I UNDERSTAND.
WE, WE CURRENTLY HAVE, UH, TWO WORKING ON THE THIRD AIRBNB.
UM, LOGAN'S BEEN DOING THIS FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS.
SHE'S BEEN INVOLVED WITH IT PROBABLY FOR THE PAST 15 YEARS, YOU KNOW, UH, WITH SOME FRIENDS OF HERS THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE USED TO HELP SET THESE PLACES UP.
BUT SHE'S BEEN DOING IT NOW FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS.
AND SHE'S HAD NOTHING BUT FIVE STAR REVIEWS.
AND WE'VE HAD NOTHING BUT FIVE STAR REVIEWS BACK TO OUR AIRBNB.
UH, YOU KNOW, UH, PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME AND STAYED AT OUR PLACES, ONE OF THEM IS, IS ACTUALLY ATTACHED TO MY OWN HOME.
SO PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST 155 STAR REVIEWS THAT WE'VE HAD.
YOU KNOW, SO NOT EVER ONE INCIDENT HAVE WE HAD WITH AN AIRBNB.
I THINK MOST OF THE PEOPLE WE VET BEFORE THEY COME IN, WE READ ABOUT 'EM.
AND IT'LL BE THE SAME THING HERE.
WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO HAVE A BUNCH OF COLLEGE KIDS COME UP.
I'M GONNA SAY, YOU DON'T HAVE BEER BADGE.
WE, WE WANT RESPECTABLE PEOPLE TO COME IN, ENJOY THE PLACE AGAIN, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND JEFF'S CONCERNS.
E EVERYBODY'S CONCERNED, BUT WE SUCCESSFULLY DO IT.
AND AIRBNB IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, ALL OVER THE PLACE.
SO IF IT WAS BAD, IT WOULD NOT BE EXPANDING.
I MEAN, PEOPLE GET STABBED TO DEATH OR RAPE, WHATEVER.
THIS, IF YOU READ ABOUT THIS COMPANY, THEY ARE POWERFUL IN A SENSE OF PROTECTING EVERYONE.
SO IF, IF I CAN JUST JUMP IN BRIEFLY, I'LL NOTE THAT THE CONDITION DOESN'T PROHIBIT 'EM FROM DOING AIRBNB AND DOING SHORT TERM RENTALS NOT RELATED TO THE ED USE.
I THINK THAT THE INTENTION OF THE CONDITION WAS TO SAY THAT I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE BLESSING THEM DOING SHORT TERM RENTALS WITHOUT IT BEING DETERMINED WHETHER THERE'S ADDITIONAL ZONING RELIEF THAT THEY NEED TO DO THAT.
SO THE CONDITION SAYS THERE SHOULD BE NO USE OF THE EXISTING DWELLING STRUCTURE FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS, NOT DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE ENTERTAINMENT EVENT UNLESS AND UNTIL A ZONING PERMIT AND ANY APPROPRIATE RELIEF IS OBTAINED IF NECESSARY.
SO I THINK THAT MY FEAR IS THAT WE'RE GONNA SET A PRECEDENT WHERE SHORT TERM RENTALS BECOME AN AUTOMATIC ACCESSORY USE RELATED TO AGRI.
AND AGAIN, I AM NOT GONNA DISPUTE MR. GAMBON'S COMMENTS ABOUT HOW WELL THEY RUN THEIR CURRENT AIRBNBS, BUT THERE IS A BROADER IMPACT OF THE AGRI USE WITHIN THE TOWNSHIP AND HOW IT'S GONNA BE TREATED.
SO THE CONDITION WAS SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN IN A WAY THAT BASICALLY SAID YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO NON-AG RELATED SHORT TERM RENTALS.
WE WERE SAYING YOU CAN, YOU CAN HAVE THE SHORT TERM RENTALS RELATED TO THE AGRI USE.
'CAUSE I THINK THERE'S A CLEAR NEXUS BETWEEN THE USE AND SOME SORT OF LIVING RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE EVENTS.
BUT TO THE EXTENT THEY WANT TO EXPAND THAT AND HAVE NON-AG RELATED SHORT TERM HOUSING, SHORT TERM RENTALS, I THINK THAT THEY NEED TO VET THAT THROUGH JEFF AND HAVE THAT DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE PERMITTED TO DO.
I I, I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT HERE'S THE THING.
I'M NOT LOOKING TO RENT ROOMS OVERNIGHT OR PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THAT GET OFF A BUS AND COME IN AND GO, HEY, COULD I RENT A ROOM? WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO DO THAT.
WE'RE LOOKING TO DO RESPECTABLE AIRBNB RENTALS AND YOU'RE ONLY, IT'S A TWO DAY MINIMUM.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE ARE VETTED.
THIS IS NOT A, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, LIKE A, A LITTLE SPOT WHERE YOU COULD JUST COME IN AND GET A ROOM FOR THE NIGHT.
PEOPLE ARE NOT GONNA COME IN HERE, CHECK IN, SO THEY COULD, YOU KNOW, BRING THEIR GIRLFRIEND HERE AND, AND USE IT LIKE A, A HOTEL.
IT'S, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
AND IT SAYS IF IT APPLIES, WELL THAT TO ME IT DOESN'T APPLY.
'CAUSE IT, IT IS A USE, AGAIN, WE HAVE A MULTIFAMILY, UH, USE THERE RIGHT NOW.
UM, AND AGAIN, DOING AN AIRBNB THERE, UM, I JUST DON'T SEE THE, THE, THE NEGATIVE IMPACT THAT, THAT ANYBODY, YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN, I'M, I'M, I WANT TO HEAR IT AND, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT, BUT, UH, IT, IF, IF, IF, IF THERE, IF THERE'S A, A BIG THING DOWN AT CONVENTION CENTER,
[00:35:01]
UM, YOU KNOW, BIG SHOW OR SOMETHING AND, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S NATIONWIDE.IT'S GONNA BE AT THE PHILADELPHIA EXPO AS WE DO, AS PEOPLE DO LIKE BIG GOLF TOURNAMENTS.
I WANNA RENT MY HOUSE OUT TO SOMEBODY THAT'S COMING TO THAT THING.
CAN I DO THAT? YES, I KNOW THERE'S NO PROHIBITION AGAINST IT.
UM, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO REGISTER A RENTAL UNIT IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
UM, THERE'S NO RENTAL INSPECTIONS.
UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW I WOULD ENFORCE IT THAT YOU COULDN'T.
YEAH, IT DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY SAY THAT YOU CAN, BUT IT DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY SAY THAT YOU CAN'T.
BUT I THINK THAT'S A SINGLE, AGAIN, THE DISTINCTION HERE SHOULD BE SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE.
YOU RENTING IT AS A GOLF EVENT COMES UP THIS RUNNING IT AS A BUSINESS ON AN AG RETAINMENT SITE.
I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THEM RUNNING THIS AIRBNB THERE.
IT'S JUST, I I THINK THERE HAS TO BE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHETHER THERE'S A LIMITATION ON IT OR HOW I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S PEOPLE THERE, WHATEVER IT IS THERE.
I THINK THERE HAS TO BE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE USE OF AN AIRBNB IS, MORE SO THAN IT IS IF YOU DECIDE TO RENT OUT YOUR HOUSE BECAUSE THE US OPENS ATLANTIC.
AND I, AND I'LL GIVE YOU THAT, I'LL GIVE YOU THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S DIFFERENT.
THERE'S SOME DIFFERENCES THERE.
BUT, SO LET'S JUST TAKE MY PERSONAL HOUSE OUT OF IT.
IS THERE AN ORDINANCE IN THE TIME SHIFT TODAY THAT SAYS THEY CAN'T DO WHAT THEY'RE DOING, WHAT, WHAT THEY'RE ASKING TO DO? WELL, ACCORDING FROM WHAT ZACH AND I TALKED ABOUT, ENTERTAINMENT DOESN'T REALLY SAY IT SPECIFICALLY, BUT IT DOESN'T PROHIBIT IT EITHER.
SO WE'RE KIND OF IN A GRAY AREA HERE.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE LOOKING TO PUT SOME CONTROLS ON IT HERE.
AND MAYBE THE, YOU KNOW, THE USES EXISTING STRUCTURES AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL DIRECTLY RELATED TO AGRI RETAIN IS MAKING IT A STEP TOO FAR FOR THEIR PREFERENCE OR YOUR PREFERENCE.
AND MAYBE THAT NEEDS TO BE DIALED BACK A LITTLE BIT.
MAYBE THERE'S SOME COMPROMISE WE CAN COME TO.
WE'RE JUST LOOKING TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS AND TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL IT SOMEWHAT, BECAUSE WE HAVE NO CONTROLS OVER IT.
AND AS ZACH SAID, WE HAVE OTHER PLACES IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME THING RIGHT AFTER THIS IF, IF THAT'S THE DETERMINATION THAT THERE'S NO CONTROL OVER IT.
BUT THEY COULD DO TODAY ANYHOW, BECAUSE THERE IS NO, WELL, IT'S AN EXISTING NON-CONFORMITY WITH THE, WITH THE RESIDENTIAL UNITS IN THERE.
SO WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST WE DO WITH THIS BOARD? ANYBODY ON THE BOARD HAVE A SUGGESTION OR, UH, JUST LEAVE IT THE WAY IT IS AND LET THE SUPERVISOR DEAL WITH IT? I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
WELL, IT'S JUST LEAVING IT IN THERE IS MAKING A RECOMMENDATION.
YEAH, I MEAN, THE THING ABOUT IT, AGAIN, IT'S A PERMITTED USE WITH THE, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, DEAL WITH THAT.
THIS, AGAIN, THESE PEOPLE ARE COMING IN UP, UH, AGAIN, UH, TO HAVE A WEDDING.
THEY'RE NOT COMING HERE TO, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY MAY BE ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT COME TO OUR AIRBNBS.
ONE GUY CAME HERE FOR THREE WEEKS WITH HIS SON WHO WAS, UH, IN THE ORCHESTRA DOWN IN PHILADELPHIA.
HE WORKED FROM THE HOUSE, HE FISHED, HIS SON WENT THERE EVERY DAY, YOU KNOW, TO, TO PLAY MUSIC.
UH, WE HAVE OTHER PEOPLE THAT COME INTO THE AREA THAT, FROM OUT OF TOWN THAT HAS FAMILY HERE THAT THEY COME TO VISIT.
UM, YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S A TON OF DIFFERENT REASONS WHY PEOPLE COME.
THEY DON'T WANNA STAY AT HOTELS.
THEY, THEY, AND, AND THESE PLACES ARE MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE.
AND I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT, MR. GABO.
I THINK THAT WHAT, TO BE FAIR TO JEFF AND ZACH, WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS THAT THIS IS GREAT FOR US, RIGHT FROM THE TIME.
AND IF WE JUST ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN, THEN WHO KNOWS WHO'S GONNA COME IN AND SAY, HEY, YOU ALREADY HAVE THIS GOING ON OVER HERE.
WHAT'S DIFFERENT IN MY SITUATION? I WANT TO OPEN UP A, YOU KNOW, A A HOTEL OUT OF MY HOUSE BASICALLY.
YOU KNOW, OR I RENT THIS EVERY DAY AND I JUST THINK YOU'RE TRYING TO GET SOME CONTROLS ON IT.
NOW, ARE THEY FAIR TO YOU? ARE THEY FAIR IN THIS CASE? I DON'T KNOW, BUT YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THE TOWNSHIP NEEDS TO THINK ABOUT MOVING FORWARD BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T, DON'T HAVE A GREAT PLAN RIGHT NOW, ZACH.
IS THAT, IS THAT FAIR? I, I DIDN'T KNOW, LIKE I SAID, I DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD TO THINK ABOUT AIRBNB.
THAT'S WHY I'M KIND OF IN MY REVENUE STREAM.
SO I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I'M, I'M GETTING, YOU KNOW, CUT A LITTLE BIT HERE FOR SOMETHING THAT'S PERMITTED.
WELL, I'M, I'M JUST, I'M GONNA PUSH BACK ON THE FACT THAT IT'S PERMITTED BECAUSE I, I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE THAT IT IS PERMITTED.
THE ORDINANCE, THE WAY ZONING WORKS IS, AT LEAST THE WAY THAT THE TOWNSHIP'S ORDINANCE WORKS, IS THAT THESE ARE THE PERMITTED USES AND YOU'RE NOT PERMITTED TO DO ANYTHING ELSE BEYOND THAT.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE, OH, WELL WE DON'T REGULATE IT, SO YOU CAN'T DO IT.
[00:40:01]
THE OTHER WAY AROUND.IF WE DON'T HAVE IT IN THERE AS A PERMITTED USE, THEN YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT.
SO SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL IS PERMITTED IN THIS DISTRICT.
SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DWELLINGS.
RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE A, A NON-CONFORMING MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL BUILDING.
SO THE DEFINITION OF FAMILY IS A NON-TRANSIENT SITUATION.
SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE INHERENTLY TRANSIENT, THEREFORE, IT, IT'S NOT, IT DOESN'T FALL UNDER THAT SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL.
I, I, YEAH, I THINK, I THINK AT THIS POINT LET'S, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE LEAVE IT THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN AND LET THE SUPERVISOR AND LET THESE PEOPLE MAKE THEIR AT THE HEARING.
NOW THEY'VE HEARD FEEDBACK, YOU'LL COME BACK WITH MAYBE MORE INFORMATION OR BETTER INFORMATION AND, AND, UH, I THINK YOU'LL HEAR OUR FEEDBACK THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I WAS, WE NEED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT.
YOU HEAR SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT IT, THAT'S ALL ABOUT ONLY, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY NEGATIVE, IT'S JUST THE FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN.
LET'S MOVE THE NEXT ONE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THE REST OF THE, UH, THOSE CONDITIONS.
ALRIGHT, WELL THEN THAT'S GOOD.
SO IT'S JUST REALLY THOSE TWO.
WELL, THAT DOESN'T SEEM, SO THEY WERE JUST A COUPLE OF THE ISSUES.
AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THE AIRBNB THING WAS REVENUE STREAM, KEEPING EVERYTHING MOVING, UH, YOU KNOW, NOT GOOD TO HAVE AN MD AND I THINK WE UNDERSTAND THAT.
I THINK WE'RE SENSITIVE THAT, BUT I THINK IF YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AND SAY, OKAY, SHIP HAS NO REAL EXPERIENCE IN THIS, LIKE ZACH SAID, IT'S REALLY NOT ADDRESSED.
SO IT REALLY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN QUESTION, IS IT PERMITTED BECAUSE ITS NOT KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHO HAS THE EXPERIENCE, TOM? WE DO.
OKAY, NOW I'M JUST SAYING, AND LOGAN, THAT'S WHY I'M, I'M POINTING OUT TO YOU, YOU HAVE THAT POINT OF JUST SUCCESS.
READ ALL THE STORIES OUT THERE OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE AIRBNBS AND I GUARANTEE THAT 95% OF 'EM ARE ALL POSITIVE.
AND I, I, I KNOW THE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE WE ALL FEEL THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA RENT OR WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, THEY'RE GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT LOOKING TO PUT A BUNCH OF, LIKE YOU SAID, COLLEGE KIDS.
DO YOU GUYS USE AIRBNB? I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN TO A TUNNEL.
WE JUST CAME BACK FROM MONTANA, UTAH, WYOMING.
I MEAN THEY'RE, THEY'RE INCREDIBLE.
RIGHT? SO, BUT, AND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE PEOPLE THERE THAT ARE MANAGING IT.
SO THAT MAKES IT BETTER THAN A HOMEOWNER THAT HAS AWAY SOMEWHERE ELSE.
THIS PLACE WILL BE 24 HOUR SECURITY UNDER WATCH.
SO, AND I THINK JUST BEING FAIR AGAIN, AND THEY DON'T NEED ME TO STICK UP, BUT I JUST, YOU KNOW, THEY, JEFF AND, AND ZACH JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I GET IT, YOU KNOW, THAT THE TOWNSHIP IS COVERED NOT TODAY, BUT 10 YEARS FROM NOW OR FIVE YEARS FROM NOW.
BECAUSE WHO KNOWS WHO, WHAT COULD COME INTO.
SO IF YOU COULD BE SENSITIVE TO THAT, I THINK YOU MAKE YOUR CASE TO THEM SURE.
TO THE SUPERVISORS AND THEY'LL MAKE, SO WE'LL JUST LEAVE THAT THE WAY WRITTEN.
UH, WE'LL CHANGE, UH, NUMBER ONE TO 8:00 PM AND, UH, WHAT ABOUT THE FRIDAY AND SATURDAY AND THE SUNDAY? ALL 8:00 PM IS OBVIOUSLY THAT I'M SUGGESTING ALL 8:00 PM YEP.
SO I GUESS IF YOU GUYS WANT TO JUST MAKE A MOTION, IF YOU
I'LL MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT, UH, THE COMMISSION APPROVE THE COMMISSION OR THE, UH, CONDITIONAL USE AS STIPULATED IN THE ATTACHMENT THAT WE HAVE, UH, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF CHANGING THE HOURS MONDAY THROUGH TUESDAY AND FRIDAY AND SATURDAY.
ROOM 10:00 AM JUST TO 8:00 PM I I GUESS BEFORE WE TAKE THE FINAL VOTE, I QUESTION YEAH.
SO COME ON UP AND MAKE YOUR PUBLIC COMMENT.
WE DO HAVE A, WE DO HAVE AN OPEN MOTION ON THE FLOOR.
WE'LL GET BACK, BUT RIGHT NOW WE'LL LET THE PUBLIC MAKE THEIR COMMENTS.
HI, NANCY CROCKETT, 1 36 BOX RUN DRIVE.
AND IF I MAY, I'D LIKE TO GO OVER TO THE MAP SURE.
OR UNLESS JEFF WANTS TO GIVE YOU THE POINTER.
WE MAY NOT HEAR YOU IF YOU GO OVER TO THE MAP.
AM I PUSH THE WRONG BUTTON, JEFF ONE WITH THE SUN, THE VERY TOP BUTTON.
YEAH, THAT'S IF YOU WANT TO TALK DANCE.
WHAT DO YOU WANT? DO YOU WANT ME TO GO BARE POINT FOR YOU? OH, YOU ME.
WHAT DO YOU WANNA POINT TO? UM, WELL I WANTED TO POINT FIRST TO WHERE MY HOUSE IS IN SOME OF THE OTHER HOUSES.
WE GET THE POINT AND THEN, OKAY, SO I'M UP ON THE HILL THERE AND THEN FROM MY HOUSE OVER AND THEN DOWN ALL ALONG THE BACK, ALL THOSE HOUSES UP ALONG THE BACK THERE ARE ALL UP ON A HILL.
UM, AND WE CAN HEAR EVERYTHING THAT GOES DOWN
[00:45:01]
ON BELOW THE HILL DOWN THERE.'CAUSE THE NOISE CARRIES UP TO US.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT, WHEN IT IS DARK AND IN THE WINTER AND AS IT GETS DARKER, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TEND TO GO TO BED EARLIER AND I DON'T KNOW IF THE 8:00 PM HOURS DURING THE WINTER, UH, IS, WILL BE SUITABLE, BUT I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF YOU WOULD HAVE THINGS OUTSIDE IN THE DARKER HOURS.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE FALL YOU MIGHT.
I'D LIKE TO KEEP THE NOISE DOWN, YOU KNOW, TO I LIKE THE SUNSET HOURS.
THAT WAS REALLY MORE CONDUCIVE TO OUR QUIET NEIGHBORHOOD.
THE NOISE ISSUE HASN'T BEEN CHANGED.
WELL, YOU WERE JUST RECOMMENDING 8:00 PM YOU SAID OF SUNSET.
NO, THAT'S JUST, THAT'S JUST THE OPERATIONAL HOURS, JUST THE TIME.
THEY, NOTHING NOTHING TO DO WITH, YOU KNOW, NOISE ISSUES.
THEY'RE GONNA DO EVERYTHING TO MINIMIZE NOISE.
UH, NO LIVE BANDS, DJS, THAT'S STILL PART OF THE CONDITION.
SO IT'S ONLY THE HOURS WITH WHICH THEY CAN HAVE FUNCTIONS.
IN THE, IN THE, IN THAT OPEN AREA.
UM, AND THEN MY OTHER CONCERN, UH, WE DIDN'T BRING THIS UP LAST MEETING, BUT DOWN ALONG OLD STATE ROAD THERE, UM, IF YOU COULD POINT TO THE OPENING TO THE PARKING LOT THERE.
THE, YEAH, RIGHT THERE, THERE'S A ENTRANCE TO THE PARKING LOT OFF OF OLD STATE.
UM, AGAIN, WE COME DOWN THROUGH OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, DOWN THAT SIDEWALK TO GET TO THE WALKING PATH DAILY.
UM, I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT OPENING THAT'S GOING TO CUT INTO OUR PATHWAY.
OUR ONLY PATHWAY TO GET DOWN TO THE WALKING PATH.
UM, IT'S THE ONLY SIDEWALK WE HAVE ACROSS THE STREET.
THERE'S NO SIDEWALK DOWN ALONG MENNONITE.
I'D LIKE TO KEEP IT THAT THE ENTRANCE INTO THE PROPERTY STAYS ON MENNONITE, WHERE THERE'S NO SIDEWALK THERE RIGHT NOW.
THERE'S NOT GONNA BE ANY PEDESTRIANS, YOU KNOW, CROSSING OVER THAT ENTRANCE TO THE PROPERTY.
LET ME, LET ME ADDRESS, CAN I ADDRESS THIS, THIS PARKING LOT? YOU NEED TO SPEAK TO THE MIC.
YEAH, WE CAN'T HEAR YOU IF YOU DON'T SPEAK TO THE MIC, YOU KNOW THAT OUR, MAYBE IT TAKES THE MINUTES.
THE PARKING LOT WHERE IT IS RIGHT NOW.
I MEAN, THIS WAS KIND OF CONCEPTUAL.
SO IN THROUGH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT, I, I REQUESTED THAT WE MOVE THE PARKING LOT DOWN TO TEE INTO WHERE THAT STREET IS SO THAT THERE IS A STOP SIGN.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO STOP COMING OUT OF OUR PARKING LOT TEED INTO WHERE THERE'S THE ROAD COMES OUT ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE THAT HAS A STOP SIGN ON THE MENNONITE ROAD.
WHAT'S THAT OLD STATE? YEAH, OLD STATE.
SO THAT, THAT'LL BE MOVED DOWN.
IT'LL TEE IN SO THAT AGAIN, THE TRAFFIC IS CONTROLLED.
THERE'S NOT ANOTHER OPENING, YOU KNOW, WHERE CAR'S COMING OUT, ANOTHER CAR'S COMING OUT OR TURNING, YOU KNOW, SO THAT IS GETTING MOVED DOWN AGAIN, THAT'S UP TO THE TRAFFIC PART OF THE TOWNSHIP.
YEAH, THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE GRINDING PART.
AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANNA PUT A FOUR WAY STOP SIGN THERE, THEY COULD DO THAT.
I MEAN, IF THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT CARS RACING DOWN THERE, IF THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT, TOWNSHIP CAN LOOK AT IT AND SAY, HEY, WE, WE'D LIKE TO SEE ANOTHER STOP SIGN PUT IN HERE.
SO THAT WOULD BE BRIAN'S PIECE, WHICH HE HASN'T GOT INTO.
SO I I IT'LL FUNCTION MUCH BETTER, MUCH SAFER HAVING THAT.
YEAH, LIKE I SAID, I'M JUST CONCERNED FOR THE PEDESTRIANS, UM, FOCUSING ON THE SIDE.
YEAH, I MEAN, AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO STOP BEFORE YOU PULL OUT.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, SO, AND I, I WAS, WHEN I WAS POSTING IT THIS AFTERNOON, THE SIDEWALK THERE IS NOT ADEQUATE.
I MEAN THAT'S SOMETHING DURING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER IT'S FULL TRAIL WIRED TRAIL OR SIDEWALK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S PART OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AND YOUR COMMENT IS ABSOLUTELY VALID NOW.
BUT WE WILL TACKLE THAT IN GREATER DETAIL AT THAT STAGE.
HI, KRISTEN TROUTMAN 1320 BLACKROCK.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, NOTHING AGAINST YOU AND IT'S A BEAUTIFUL PROPERTY, BUT I THINK IT'S A HUGE MISTAKE TO DUMP A COMMERCIAL PARTY, VENUE, WHATEVER, AMONGST NOTHING BUT RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.
UM, MY NEXT QUESTION IS CONDITIONAL USE HEARINGS.
ARE THEY BASED ON ADDRESSES OR IS IT PARCEL NUMBERS OR NOTIFICATION OF? WELL, THERE'S TWO PARCELS IN THIS TOWNSHIP THAT HAVE THE ADDRESS OF 5 92 MENNONITE.
THERE'S THIS ONE AND THERE'S ONE FARTHER DOWN MENNONITE CLOSER TO NINE OAKS.
LIKE IT'S, IT'S ABOUT AN AC AND A HALF.
IT'S, IT'S, I MEAN I, IT IT IS TECHNICALLY THAT, WELL
[00:50:01]
YOU CAN LOOK IT UP.IT'S 5 92, IT'S TECHNICALLY ZERO.
UM, MEITE ROAD IS THEIR ADDRESS.
UM, AND THE ATTORNEY AT THE LAST MEETING HAD STATED THAT IT WAS 15 ACRES TO TONIGHT.
YOU SAY IT'S 12 AND THE COUNTY PROPERTY RECORDS SINCE 12.
SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT POINT.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH HOW MUCH PARKING, I MEAN THE, UM, PARKING IS GONNA SOLELY BE BASED ON THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THERE.
WELL, THAT, THAT'S MY NEXT QUESTION BECAUSE WHAT'S THE, UM, MAXIMUM OCCUPANCY SHOULD THIS KEEP MOVING FORWARD? BECAUSE I HEARD AT THE LAST MEETING, 250 PEOPLE, THEN THERE WAS LIKE 300 PEOPLE AND WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT OFFSITE PARKING AND DOES THOSE FACTS.
BUT DOES THAT INCLUDE STAFF THAT MIGHT BE THERE TOO FOR MAX OCCUPANCY? I'M NOT SURE HOW MAX OCCUPANCY WORKS TO BE PERFECTLY FRANK.
THAT'S SOMETHING THE FIRE MARSHAL DETERMINES.
UM, AND PARKING WILL BE BASED ON THAT AND COORDINATION WITH THAT, WITH STAFF AND WITH THE PEOPLE THERE.
I, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHY OR HOW IT'S DETERMINED.
I I WOULD HAVE TO, BUT ALSO, ALSO IN THE CONDITIONS WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, YOU ADDRESSED THAT, THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN OFF WHICH YOU AGREED TO AND HAVE AN OFFSITE PARKING PLACE, CORRECT? RIGHT.
THE THE BUT WHAT IF YOU DON'T GET THAT RECEIVED, THE GREEN LIGHT FROM THE CHURCH AGREEING TO YOUR EMAILS? EXCUSE ME.
WE, WE'VE ALREADY ADDRESSED IT.
WE WENT TO THE CHURCH, WE SPOKE TO THEM, THEY AGREED TO IT.
SO WE ARE, WE WILL SHUTTLE WE, BECAUSE WE WERE ASKED TO SEE IF WE COULD DO THAT.
SO I WENT THERE, SPOKE TO THEM.
THEY'RE COMPLETELY FINE WITH IT.
BECAUSE PERSONALLY, IF I WAS THE CHURCH, I WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH LIABILITY.
IF YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF, WE HAVE, WE HAVE A CHOICE PART OF PEOPLE, BUT DOES THAT COVER YOU ON THEIR PROPERTY? WELL, WELL, MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT'S FOR THEM.
AND THE LAST THING IS, UM, SINCE THIS IS GOING TO BE A, AN ENTERTAINMENT THING, UM, IS THERE GOING TO BE, AGAIN, IF IT GETS APPROVED, A HOSPITALITY OR AN ENTERTAINMENT TAX THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY THE, THE, THE SUPERVISORS HAVE TALKED ABOUT AN ENTERTAINMENT TAX OR, UM, SOMETHING LIKE THAT? WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON THE BOOKS RIGHT NOW.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, WHERE THE BOARD STANDS WITH WHAT.
WELL I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT LIKE WITH THE EXPO CENTER AND ALL.
AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE BOARD STANDS WITH IT.
THERE, THERE'S BEEN DISCUSSIONS THAT HAVE HAPPENED WHEN I WAS IN THE ROOM.
I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF IT.
AND, AND IT IS SOMETHING THE BOARD WILL HAVE TO DECIDE IF YOU WANT TO BRING IT UP AT THE CONDITIONAL USE HEARING TO GET THE BOARD'S DIRECT COMMENT, FEEL FREE.
CERTAINLY NOT, NOT GET WE DIRECTLY.
I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, BUT IT'S, I MEAN, IT'S A COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.
I MEAN, I JUST, I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY HERE REALLY THINKS ABOUT THE TERM AGRI BECAUSE I MEAN, I DON'T, IT'S REALLY GENERALIZED, BUT IT USED TO BE, THE INITIAL CONCEPT WAS THAT IT WAS EDUCATIONAL, UM, STUFF GOING ON TO TEACH PEOPLE ABOUT AGRICULTURE AND TO MAKE THAT A PART OF THE WHOLE THING.
AND JUST BECAUSE YOU GET MARRIED IN A BARN, TO ME, DOES NOT MEET THE DEFINITION OF EDUCATION WITH AGRICULTURE.
UNFORTUNATELY WITH THAT THERE'S THEIR STATE LOOSENING OF THE RULES.
'CAUSE WELL THAT'S WHAT I SAID WAY BACK WHEN THEY FIRST STARTED IT MORE RECENTLY THAT THERE, THERE'S BEEN A STATE LEVEL MORE REINTERPRETATION OF IT BECAUSE THE AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRIES HAS A FAIRLY STRONG, UM, LOBBYING PRESENCE.
SO BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MAKE MONEY BEING, WELL OBVIOUSLY
AND WE, WE, I PERSONALLY KNOW HOW IT IS.
SO, UM, AND I AM NOT DOUBTING THAT AT ALL.
BUT YOU, FROM WHAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO DO FROM THE STATE AND WHAT, YOU KNOW, HOW WE CAN INTERPRET THINGS, IT'S CERTAINLY BEEN LOOSEN UP OVER THE PAST TWO 10 OR 15 YEARS.
ANYBODY ELSE? ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE GALLERY? NOT HEARING ANY? I'LL GO BACK.
JOE, YOU WANNA RESTATE YOUR MOTION? I CAN.
UM, I'D LIKE TO, UH, RECOMMEND THAT WE APPROVE THE CONDITION USE AS OUTLINED IN, UH, THE ATTACHMENT TO OUR MEMO, UH, WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT WE CHANGE THE HOURS ON MONDAY THROUGH SATURDAY TO 8:00 PM UH, ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THAT OR QUESTIONS THAT A SECOND? I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION.
AND, AND WHAT WE'RE DOING, YOU'RE SAYING PROOF AGAIN, IT IS A RECOMMENDATION TO THE SUPERVISORS TO, TO PRESENT THEM TO THE, AS OUR RECOMMENDATION.
I KNOW WE UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT FOR THESE FOLKS OUT THERE, WE ARE JUST RECOMMENDING TO THE SUPERVISORS THAT WE ARE OKAY WITH THIS PLAN AS IT SITS BEFORE US RIGHT NOW.
IS THAT CORRECT GUYS? THAT'S CORRECT.
GOOD LUCK ON THE FIRST, APPRECIATE THE BOARD'S TIME.
THAT BRINGS US TO ED MULLIN AND HIS MARRIED MAN.
[00:55:01]
OH, WE GOT MARRIED, MAN.PAUL, WHY DON'T YOU COME ON HERE.
AS AS YOU KNOW, UM, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AT THE END, MOVE THE MIC UP A LITTLE CLOSER.
AS YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS BEING CALLED THE COLLEGE FULL WORLD MULTI-FAMILY, UH, APARTMENT COMPLEX.
AND WE WERE HERE BEFORE, AS YOU MAY RECALL, FOR TENTATIVE APPROVAL.
AND AT THAT TIME, UH, WE HAD NOBODY COMPLAINING ABOUT IT.
AND IF YOU RECALL, YOU GUYS WERE THINKING ABOUT MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT AND BEFORE WE APPROVE THIS, AND I SAID, WHY THERE'S NOBODY HERE.
AND, UH, SO YOU GAVE US APPROVAL.
SO WHAT HAPPENED IS, UM, WE'VE REVISED OUR PLANS, WE SUBMITTED OUR PLANS, AND WE'VE GOTTEN REVIEW LETTERS, AND WE ARE ABLE TO SAY THAT WITH RESPECT TO THOSE REVIEW LETTERS, WE'VE MET WITH STAFF AND WE ARE VERY COMFORTABLE IN SAYING THAT WE WILL END UP SATISFYING ALL THE STAFF'S COMMENTS AND WE'LL HAVE NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.
UM, WE DO HAVE A WAIVER LETTER, WHICH I BELIEVE YOU MAY HAVE ALREADY, JEFF? YES.
SO WE DO HAVE A WAIVER LETTER, UM, AND PAUL
I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY TRAFFIC, UH, IT'S INVOLVING FISCAL IMPACT.
WE HAVE PEOPLE HERE TONIGHT TO TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE A LOT OF YOUR TIME IF YOU DON'T HAVE QUESTIONS.
SO ALL WE'RE GOING TO DO IS PRESENT PRESENTATION WISE, IS HAVE PAUL, DESCRIBE WHAT WE'RE DOING AND GO OVER THE WAIVER LETTER.
AGAIN, MY NAME IS PAUL LEOPARD.
I'M A, A, JUST A LITTLE HOUSEKEEPING.
I'M A REGISTERED LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT AND PLANNER.
I WORK WITH AN ENGINEERING FIRM NAMED, NO, UH, MY COLLEAGUE PAIGE MASS IS HERE, WHO HAS BEEN INTEGRAL TO THE PROJECT.
AND IF THERE ARE ANY, UH, QUESTIONS RELATED, UH, TO STORMWATER SPECIFICALLY, I CAN TOUCH ON THEM AND WE GET INTO THE WEEDS.
UM, UM, AGAIN, IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE BACK.
UH, I THINK IT'S BEEN ALMOST A YEAR SINCE WE, BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
UM, BUT WE DID RECEIVE YOUR, UH, UNANIMOUS, UH, APPROVAL ON THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN.
AND I'M HAPPY TO SAY THAT, UM, WE PUT A LOT OF ENERGY AND EFFORT INTO THE PREPARATION OF THAT TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN.
SO IF YOU WERE TO COMPARE THE SITE IMPROVEMENT PLAN TO THE PRELIMINARY PLAN AND THE RENDERING THAT'S IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU'D FIND THAT IT'S VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL.
THE BUILDING FOOTPRINTS ARE, UH, VIRTUALLY THE SAME EXCEPT FOR, UM, UH, THE ADVANCEMENT OF, I WOULD CALL IT THE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN REFINEMENT TO THE BUILDING FOOTPRINT, UH, ACCESS WAYS, ENTRANCES.
UM, WHAT IS, UH, BEEN ADDED TO THE PLAN, IN ADDITION TO THOSE REFINEMENT IS, UH, ADDITIONAL ATTENTION BEING BROUGHT FORWARD RELATIVE TO THE AMENITY SPACE, UH, FOR BOTH CONDO ONE AND CONDO TWO.
SO LET ME TAKE A STEP BACK FOR A MOMENT.
UM, AGAIN, WE ARE, UH, A FOUR BUILDING PROJECT OF 472 RESIDENTIAL APARTMENTS THAT CONSIST OF ONE, TWO, AND A HANDFUL OF THREE BEDROOM APARTMENTS.
CONDO NUMBER ONE, AND BUILDING FOUR IS THE KIND OF, UM, DOUBLE U BUILDING THAT'S ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE SITE.
PLANT BUILDINGS, UM, ONE, TWO, AND THREE, UM, IN THE MIDDLE AND THE SOUTH, UH, CONSTITUTE CON CONDO NUMBER TWO.
CONDO ONE IS, UH, CONTROLLED BY AUDUBON LAND DEVELOPMENT.
AND, UH, BUILDINGS ONE, TWO, AND THREE ARE HIGH REAL ESTATE GROUP.
UM, AGAIN, 472, UH, MAY MAYBE I, I'M NOT, COULD YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE THE POINT OBJECT BE WORKING THERE BECAUSE I'M, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SAYING THAT, BUT I'M NOT SURE I'M FOLLOWING, WHICH IS BUILDING ONE AND BUILDING THREE BACK HERE.
BUILDING ON THE TOP OF THE PLAN NORTH.
THAT'S, UH, UH, CONDO ONE, BUILDING FOUR.
AND THIS IS CONDO TWO BUILDINGS, ONE, TWO, AND THREE.
[01:00:01]
A TOTAL OF 472 UNITS.UM, SITEWIDE, WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN 800 PARKING SPACES, WHICH IS WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR, WHOOPS, MY CHAIR,
UM, WE ARE ALSO, UH, TAKING AGAIN, JUST BIG PICTURE BACKGROUND A LITTLE BIT.
PROPERTY ZONED, UM, YOU KNOW, YERKES MIXED USE DISTRICT, WHICH YOU'RE AWARE OF, UH, HAS A, UH, BASE, UH, ZONING, UH, DENSITY OF 20 UNITS PER ACRE WITH THE ABILITY TO HAVE DENSITY BONUSES UP TO SIX, UH, ADDITIONAL DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE.
WE'RE PROPOSING TO, UM, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OR INSTITUTE THOSE, UH, DENSITY BONUSES THROUGH THE PROVISION OF ADDITIONAL SITE AMENITIES.
THAT INCLUDES THE PROVISION OF THE DOG PARK, UH, IS ONE.
UH, THE SECOND ARE, UM, UH, ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGING STATIONS.
THERE ARE FOUR THAT ARE DISTRIBUTED THROUGHOUT THE SITE.
ONE IS HERE, ANOTHER IS HERE, THIRD IS HERE, AND A FOURTH IS HERE.
AND, UH, IN ADDITION TO THAT, THERE IS A HANDFUL OF AMENITIES THAT ALSO NEED TO BE PROVIDED.
IN ADDITION, UM, THE PROVISION OF POOLS.
SO WE HAVE A POOL THAT'S SERVING THE RESIDENTS OF CONDO ONE, A SECOND POOL, UM, TO BENEFIT THE RESIDENTS OF CONDO TWO.
AND WITHIN THOSE OPEN SPACE AREAS, WE HAVE OTHER AMENITIES, BUT SPECIFICALLY THERE ARE GRILLING STATIONS, OUTDOOR KITCHENS THERE INTEGRATED INTO THE HARDSCAPES.
AND IN BOTH OF THE AMENITY PACKAGES THAT HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED AND SUBMITTED ALONG WITH OUR PLANS, THE LAST DENSITY BONUS THAT WE'RE PROVIDING, UM, HAS TO DO WITH BIKE STORAGE, BOTH INDOOR AND OUTDOOR BIKE STORAGE.
WE HAVE A TOTAL BETWEEN BOTH CONDOS OF APPROXIMATELY A HUNDRED INTERIOR PARKING OR, OR STORAGE FOR BICYCLES, PLUS OUT ABOUT A HALF A DOZEN, UM, UM, OUTDOOR, UH, BIKE RACKS, UM, FOR, UH, BICYCLES ON THE EXTERIOR.
SO WE'RE, UH, MEETING THAT WE'RE EXCEEDING THE DENSITY REQUIREMENTS IN TERMS OF THE PROVISION OF THE ADDITIONAL, UM, UM, AMENITIES.
AND THE LAST BUT NOT LEAST PIECE OF THE PUZZLE IS THE PROVISION OF A DOG PARK.
UM, AND THAT WILL SERVE BOTH, UM, SMALL DOGS.
THERE'S A AREA THAT'S SEGREGATED FOR SMALLER TREES AND THEN A LARGER DOG, UM, AREA.
UM, AND SO THAT'S KIND OF THE BIG PICTURE.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S TOO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE SHARED WITH YOU AT THIS TIME LAST YEAR.
UM, BUT WHAT I WILL POINT OUT IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE NOT SEEING IS ALL THE ENGINEERING BEHIND IT.
UH, THERE'S BEEN A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF, UM, ENGINEERING, UM, IN, IN TERMS OF, UH, STORM WATER.
UM, WE HAVE, UM, A VARIETY, A VARIETY.
WE HAVE MULTIPLE UNDERGROUND STORAGE FACILITIES, UM, SITUATED THROUGH THE SITE, UH, IN ORDER TO MEET, UM, THE TOWNSHIP'S, UH, STORM WATER ORDINANCE, UM, WITH RESPECT TO BOTH PEAK AND, UM, REDUCTION REQUIREMENTS.
AND THE TOWNSHIP HAS A VERY ROBUST STORM ORDINANCE, AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING VERY HARD TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT WE ARE MEETING THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
UM, WITH RESPECT TO, UM, I THINK THE OTHER ASPECT THAT WE LIKE TO TO POINT OUT IS THE SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF GREEN SPACE THAT, UM, IS, IS KIND OF LEFT, UH, FOR THE ENJOYMENT OF THE RESIDENTS AND ALSO FOR THE PRESERVATION OF, OF RESOURCES.
UH, FOLKS WHO ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE PROPERTY ARE ALREADY AWARE THAT IT'S, IT'S A WOODED SITE.
THERE'S ALSO DONNY BROOK, WHICH, UH, BISECTS THE PROPERTY, UM, FROM THE COLLEGEVILLE BOROUGH LINE HERE, UH, DRAINING TO THE SOUTHEAST AND THEN OFF SITE TO THE EAST.
UH, SO THERE'S A FLOODPLAIN AREA THERE, UH, AS WELL.
AND, UM, UH, A POCKET OF, OF, OF WETLANDS.
SO WHILE, UM, THE PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, UH, AS THOSE RESOURCES, THE ORDINANCE ACTUALLY ENCOURAGES US TO SET THEM ASIDE, UH, FOR PRESERVATION PURPOSES, WHICH WE ARE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, TO DO IN A ROBUST WAY.
WE HAVE MORE THAN 16 HALF ACRES OF THE 30 ACRE SITE SET ASIDE IN, IN GREEN SPACE IN TERMS OF SITE COVERAGE AND BUILDING COVERAGE.
WE'RE BELOW THE MAXIMUMS BY A NOTABLE AMOUNT.
UM, ALMOST HALF OF THE, UM, 20% BUILDING COVERAGE WERE AROUND 10%.
[01:05:01]
WE HAVE 65%, UM, IN TOTAL IMPERVIOUS.WE'RE, UM, ABOUT 35, 40%, UM, SITE IMPERIOUS.
SO WE'RE, WELL BE BELOW THE ANTICIPATED DENSITY AND INTENSITY OF DEVELOPMENT THAT THE ORDINANCE WOULD'VE OTHERWISE PERMITTED.
WE'RE ALLOWED, WE'RE 65%, BUT WE'RE 30.
I JUST WANNA MAKE THAT THAT'S CORRECT, YEAH.
UM, THE ORDINANCE ALSO ASKS, RELATIVE TO THE PROVISION OF OPEN SPACE TO PROVIDE FOR SOME USABLE OPEN SPACE, AND IN THIS CASE IT'S 15% OR ABOUT, UM, 4.3 ACRES OF AREA.
WHAT WE'RE DOING, AGAIN, THE INTENTION IS TO PROVIDE FOR THE PRESERVATION OF OPEN SPACE, BUT WE HAVE 4.7 ACRES OF UPLAND WOODLANDS HERE THAT MEETS THE INTENT AND SPIRIT OF THE ORANGE IN TERMS OF, UH, I WOULD SAY USABLE, UM, OPEN SPACE, GREEN SPACE THAT IS OUTSIDE OF, OF WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE IN THIS AREA, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FLOODPLAIN AND THE STREAM STREAM TOWARD, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, THERE'S ALREADY A SERIES OF, YOU KNOW, MOAN TRAILS, WALKING TRAILS BACK HERE.
AND IF, UH, FOLKS ARE, UH, INTERESTED, THEY CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY, UM, TO BE ABLE TO CROSS THE CREEK TO GET BACK HERE AND WALK IF THEY SO DESIRE TO.
BUT AGAIN, THE INTENTION IS TO BE ABLE TO MAIN THIS, WHOOPS, MAINTAIN, UH, THIS AREA IN TERMS OF NATURAL RESOURCE BACK THERE.
THEY'RE JUST LIKE, MAN, SOMEBODY'S JUST, YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE PERIODICALLY MOTORCYCLES OR ANYTHING BACK THERE.
I I TO SEE IT LOOKS LIKE THEY TAKE A, A MOWER, SOMEBODY'S BACK THERE AND JUST MAKING TRIPS AND, AND MAINTAIN THAT.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF HOW WE WOULD SEE THE ENTIRETY OF THIS AREA BEING USED FOR BIRDERS.
FOLKS THAT WANT TO GET OUT AND WALK AROUND.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHILE I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, WETLANDS, THE, THE WETLANDS ARE NOT, UM, UH, HEAVILY SATURATED IN TO THE POINT THAT THEY'RE NAVIGABLE IN, IN TERMS OF WALKING THROUGH IT, IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE A LAWN AREA.
IT WOULD BE A TRAINED EYE TO BE ABLE TO PICK UP THAT, THAT AREA'S ACTUALLY.
SO YOU SAID YOU DON'T SEE ANY NEED TO PUT ANY KIND OF, EXCUSE ME, TRAIL TRAILS THAT YOU'RE DEVELOPMENT, YOU THINK THAT, THAT THOSE EXTERIOR TRAILS ARE APPROPRIATE? YEAH, I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR SOMEONE INFORMALLY TO GO OUT AND, AND ENJOY, UH, AND ENJOY NATURE.
SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S OUR, UM, POSITION THAT WE, WE MEET THE INTENT AND THE SPIRIT OF THE OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS THAN THE ORDINANCE.
AND AS ED MENTIONED, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF WAIVERS THAT I'LL TOUCH ON IN A MOMENT, UH, IN ORDER TO, UM, YOU KNOW, FACILITATE THAT BECAUSE, UH, AGAIN, WE, WE, WE DON'T MEET THE LITERAL, UM, REQUIREMENTS IN THE, IN THE ORDINANCE.
UM, WELL, IF I MAY, UM, YES, THOSE TRAILS, AND I UNDERSTAND IT, THE, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING FROM THE SUPERVISORS, WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO TAKE THIS OPEN SPACE AS IT WOULD'VE TO BE DEDICATED TO US, BUT THOSE TRAILS WOULD BE PRIVATE TRAILS.
THEY WOULD NOT BE PUBLIC ACCESS TRAILS, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
IT'S NOT LIKE I COULD DRIVE UP THERE AND TAKE MY DOG FOR A WALK THROUGH THE WOODS.
BUT YEAH, THE OPEN SPACE IS INTENDED TO BE, UM, HELD PRIVATELY.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS CLEAR FOR EVERYBODY.
THAT IT IS, IT'S AMENITY FOR THE USER, FOR THE APARTMENT DWELLERS, NOT FOR TOWNSHIP AT LARGE.
COULD YOU RE, COULD YOU SAY THAT AGAIN? I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTOOD ANY SORT OF TRAIL THAT THEY PUT IN THE BACK OF THEIR PROPERTY, WHETHER IT'S AD HOC AS IT IS TODAY, OR ANYTHING MORE FORMALIZED THAT THEY WOULD DESIGN THAT WOULD BE FOR RESIDENT USE ONLY OF THE APARTMENT COMPLEX, OF THE MULTI-FAMILY COMPLEX.
NOT FOR YOU OR ME TO JUST DRIVE UP PARK AND, AND TAKE A WALK, BUT CAN YOU ALSO EXPLAIN THE POND LOT? CERTAINLY.
UH, AND TONY MAY CHIME IN, UH, AS WELL, BUT, UM, THE ENTIRETY OF THE PARCELS THAT HIGH HAS UNDER CONTROL IS ABOUT 31 ACRES AND CHANGE, UM, THIS REAR LOT AND LARGEST PORTION OF THE PROPERTY THAT, UH, WAS, IS UNDER AGREEMENT IS OWNED BY THE AUGUSTINES.
AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING AROUND 21 ACRES.
UM, SINCE THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN, THE AUGUSTINES EXPRESSED AN INTEREST IN RETAINING THE POND AREA.
UH, SO THIS IS LIKE A 1.4 ACRE NOTCH RIGHT AT THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING.
AND THAT WILL THEN BE ADDED TO THEIR RESIDENTIAL, THEIR RESIDENTIAL LOT.
AND WE ARE PREPARING MINOR SUBDIVISION PLANS, UH, FOR THAT,
[01:10:01]
UM, UM, RE SUBDIVISION AS WE SPEAK AND EXPECT TO HAVE THEM FILED WITH THE TOWNSHIP SHORTLY.UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THE BACKGROUND ON THAT.
MY QUESTION ON THAT IS, HOW DOES THAT AFFECT YOUR DENSITY? UH, 'CAUSE YOU'RE TAKING ONE POINT YES.
SO WHATEVER, SO IS YOUR DENSITY REDUCED BY 26 UNITS? UH, UH, SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, WHEN WE TAKE OUT THAT 1.4, WE'RE STILL, WE STILL HAVE AN EXCESS OF DENSITY LEFT OF APPROXIMATELY 15 UNITS.
SO THAT'S ALREADY BEEN FACTORED INTO THE ZONING DATA TABLE ON, ON THE PRELIMINARY PLAN.
UM, I THINK HOW WILL THEY ACCESS THAT PROPERTY? SO IT WOULD BE, IT, THEIR, THEIR FRONTAGE IS RIGHT HERE OFF THE CUL-DE-SAC ON I THINK BRIDAL COURT.
AND SO IT WOULD JUST BE ADDED TO THE REAR PORTION, SO THEY ACCESS IT.
RIGHT NOW THEY, THEY, YOU KNOW, THEIR PROPERTY IS CONTI CONTINUOUS, AND SO THAT'S HOW THEY, THEY KIND OF MAINTAIN THE PERIMETER OF THE POND.
UM, FROM WHAT I COULD TELL, UM, AT THIS POINT, IT, IT IS MORE APPROPRIATE TO CALL THAT, UH, JEFF, IT'S, IT'S, IT IS KIND OF GONNA BE AN APPENDAGE.
IT WILL BE AN APPENDAGE TO THEIR HOME PARCEL.
I THINK IT'S REFERRED TO IN THE PLANS AS A LOT POND LOT, BUT YEAH.
AND THAT, THAT'S WHAT I WAS CONFUSED.
IT NOT THE PROOF I'M SEEING IT, IT'S NOT.
AND IF, IF WE'RE GONNA BE DOING A MINOR SUBDIVISION, I THINK I NEED THAT APPLICATION TO KIND OF START RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH US.
IT'S ONLY A ONE SHOT THREE MONTH SORT OF DEAL.
UM, BUT I, I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED IN THERE.
'CAUSE AGAIN, WE'RE EVALUATING ONE THING AND THEN AFTER THAT'S FINISHED AND APPROVED, WE'RE TAKING OFF A PART OF IT.
SO, AND I, I AGREE THAT'S NOT REALLY THE CASE.
BUT THAT'S GONNA, THAT'S HOW IT KIND OF APPEARS.
IT, I, I'VE TALKED TO PAUL ABOUT JUST CORRECTING THE NOMENCLATURE THERE.
I THINK WE'RE STRAIGHT ON THAT.
IT'S, IT'S TRULY AN APPENDAGE.
AND IT WAS, WITHOUT BELABORING THE POINT, THE AUGUSTINES WERE A PRIMARY SELLER HERE.
THEY JUST EXPRESSED IN THE STRONGEST TERMS THEIR DESIRE TO RETAIN THAT PARCEL FOR THEIR FAMILY'S ENJOYMENT.
IT WAS SOMETHING WE WORKED ON WITH THEM.
WE EVALUATED IT AND, YOU KNOW, WE FELT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE COULD DO IT.
AND I WANT TO, I WANT TO HONOR THEIR REQUEST.
SO IT IS, IT IS, AGAIN, I HAVE NO, I PURELY, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS MAKES SENSE TO EVERYBODY.
THAT WE DON'T GO THROUGH ONE PROCESS AND THEN SIX MONTHS LATER SUDDENLY GO THROUGH ANOTHER PROCESS.
EVERYBODY'S LIKE, WELL, HOW DID THAT AFFECT THE FIRST PROCESS? MY COMMITMENT TO THEM IS, THIS WILL WILL RUN CONCURRENTLY.
AND, AND THE, THE, THE NOMENCLATURE HERE WILL, IT'S NOT A LOT, IT'S AN APPENDAGE TO THEIR EXISTING PARCEL.
SO I THINK WITH THAT, IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL IF I KIND OF, UM, RUN THROUGH THE ANTICIPATED WAIVERS.
UM, AGAIN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE RELATIVELY MINOR.
UH, I'VE TOUCHED ON THEM WITH RESPECT TO, UM, OPEN SPACE ALREADY.
UM, THE OTHER ITEMS WE'VE KIND OF REVIEWED WITH STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WEREN'T REQUESTING SOMETHING UNUSUAL OR UNWARRANTED.
AND, UM, SO, SO CAN I INTERRUPT FOR ONE SECOND? YES, PLEASE.
UH, BEFORE WE REVIEW THE WAIVERS, DOES, DOES THIS MEAN THAT HAVING LOOKED AT THE, UH, CONSULTANTS ENGINEERING LETTER FROM LATE OCTOBER, THERE'S LIKE 177 ITEMS OF CONCERN.
MR. MOLIN COMMENTED, I THINK THAT YOU'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH EVERYTHING EXCEPT YOU WANT THESE WAIVERS.
JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND WHERE WE'RE GOING.
WE ALSO KNOW, I'M SORRY, GO FINISH.
AND WE'VE MET WITH STAFF AND GOING OVER THAT YES.
WELL, BOTH, ALL THE ENGINEERING ISSUES, AND THESE ARE, WELL, WE'LL GET, WE WE'RE, LET THEM COMMENT AS SOON AS YOU READ.
BUT I SAY A PERSPECTIVE HERE IS TO, THAT'S WHERE WE ARE.
AND, AND JUST BEFORE WE GET STARTED, I WILL SAY THAT THEY EMAILED THE FIRE MARSHAL TODAY, UH, MID-AFTERNOON WITH A RESPONSE OF THEIR LETTER.
THE FIRE MARSHAL GOT BACK TO ME AND SAID, I CAN'T LOOK AT THIS OBVIOUSLY THIS QUICKLY.
SO THE FIRE MARSHALS LETTER IS STILL OUT THERE.
NONE OF US ARE SURE HOW THEY'VE ADDRESSED THOSE COMMENTS.
AND I DON'T MEAN THAT IN A NEGATIVE WAY.
I'M SURE THEY'VE ADDRESSED 'EM ADEQUATELY 'CAUSE THEY'RE VERY GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO.
BUT THAT LETTER SORT OF HAS TO STAND ON ITS OWN FOR NOW.
AND I ASSUME YOU'RE NOT COM NOT SAYING YOU CAN'T COMPLY WITH ANYTHING.
I DIDN'T READ YOUR COMMENTS EITHER, BUT, UM, THAT ISSUE, THOSE ISSUES WILL HAVE TO BE RESOLVED JUST LIKE ANY OTHER ISSUES AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
AND WE'RE, AGAIN, PAUL, THERE ARE NO ISSUES WITH COMPLYING WITH THE FIRE MARSH.
[01:15:01]
JUMPING TO AGAIN, THE, THE WAIVERS REAL QUICKLY.UM, THE ORDINANCE, UM, M REQUIRES THE PROVISION OF EASEMENTS WITH RESPECT TO OPERATION MAINTENANCE, PRESERVATION OF STREAM CHANNELS, UH, AND THE LIKE, UH, WHICH WE ARE, UH, PREPARED TO ALLOW AND PROVIDE FOR AS A BLANKET EASEMENT OVER THE PROPERTY, WHICH ALLOWS THE PARTIES OF INTEREST, THE UTILITY AUTHORITIES, UH, FOR WATER OR SEWER, THE TOWNSHIP ENGINEER, UM, TO BE ABLE TO ENTER THE PROPERTY, INSPECT AND MAINTAIN AN EVENT THAT HIGH, AN AUTO BOND WOULD DEFAULT, WHICH WOULD HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT THAT WOULD HAPPEN.
BUT WE WE'RE ASKING TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR, UH, BLANKET EASEMENTS FOR THAT IN LIEU OF TRADITIONAL MEETS AND BOUNDS FOR EVERY RUN.
AGAIN, FROM A, UM, THE UTILITY DESIGN PERSPECTIVE, THERE'S A LOT OF STORMWATER CONVEYANCE, AND THAT WOULD BE A RATHER BURDENSOME EFFORT.
AND THE BLANKET EASEMENT PROVIDES FOR THE SAME, UM, OPPORTUNITY AND, UH, PROTECTIONS, UH, TO THE TOWNSHIP AND THE RESIDENTS, UH, THROUGH THE BLANKET EASEMENT.
SO WE'RE REQUESTING, UM, WAIVERS WITH RESPECT TO THE PROVISION OF EASEMENTS VIA A, A BLANKET EASEMENT.
UM, THERE ARE THREE, AGAIN, WE MEET THE SPIRIT AND THE INTENT OF THE OPEN SPACE PROVISIONS IN THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
AGAIN, WE'RE PROVIDING MORE THAN IS OTHERWISE REQUIRED BECAUSE A PORTION OF THEM ARE ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE.
SO THEY'RE BEING SET ASIDE, THE ORDINANCE PUTS CERTAIN STIPULATIONS ON THE AMOUNT OF ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCES, THE MAXIMUM SLOPE OF CERTAIN RECREATION AREAS.
UM, AND, UM, WHAT WE'RE ASKING IS A WAIVER, UM, TO THOSE PROVISIONS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT THE OPEN SPACE THAT'S INCLUDING THE PROVISION, UH, THE PRES PRESERVATION OF NATURAL RESOURCES, INCLUDING STREAMS, WATERCOURSE, WETLANDS, FLOODPLAINS, EXCEEDING 40%, INCLUDING LESS THAN 60% OF THE OPEN SPACE IN UPLAND AREA AND EXCEEDING 2%.
SO THAT'S BECAUSE WE'RE PROVIDING ALMOST 17 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE.
BUT AGAIN, OUR, OUR ORDINANCE REQUIREMENT IS THAT 4.7 ACRES THAT'S DOWN HERE, UM, WE'RE JUST PROVIDING MORE AND AS PROVIDING MORE WITH THE, UH, PRESERVATION OF OPEN SPACE, WE CAN'T MEET THOSE, UM, PROPORTIONAL REQUIREMENTS.
SO WE'RE ASKING FOR A WAIVER FROM THOSE, UM, FOR THOSE PROVISIONS.
SIMILARLY, UM, UM, WITH, UM, THE FACT THAT THE OPEN SPACE AREAS ARE GOING TO BE HELD PRIVATELY, AND IT'S NOT, NOT WHAT YOU WOULD TYPICALLY SEE LIKE IN A RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION WHERE YOU MAY HAVE AN OPEN SPACE ASSET AND YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE PROVIDING A MEANS OF ACCESS BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL LOTS SO THE PUBLIC DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, CROSS PRIVATE PROPERTY TO GET THE OPEN SPACE.
YOUR ORDINANCE REQUIRES A 25 FOOT ACCESS FROM A PUBLIC STREET.
WE'RE ASKING FOR THAT PROVISION TO BE WAIVED SINCE WE ARE, UM, AGAIN HOLDING THIS AND IT'S FOR PRIVATE USE.
UM, THE LAST HAS TO DO WITH, AGAIN, UM, HIGH AND AUTOBAHN ARE, ARE KIND OF DESIGNING THESE SPACES AS PART OF THE APARTMENT LIFESTYLE.
AND, UM, THEY HAVE LOTS OF EXPERIENCE DOING THIS SUCCESSFULLY.
AND IN THIS INSTANCE, WE HAVE SOME OUTDOOR RECREATION SPACE THAT'S CLOSER THAN 10 FEET TO THE BUILDING AND NARROWER THAN 45 FEET IN WIDTH, PARTICULARLY IN THIS LOCATION.
WE'RE ASKING FOR A WAIVER FROM THOSE TWO PROVISIONS THAT WE HAVE, UH, REC SPACE AND REC, UM, EXCUSE ME, REC SPACE THAT'S CLOSER THAN 10 FEET AND A LITTLE BIT NARROWER THAN 45 IN THOSE INSTANCES.
BUT AGAIN, BASED ON HIGH AUDUBON'S EXPERIENCE, THAT IS, UM, CERTAINLY MEETING THEIR NEEDS IN TERMS OF PROVIDING FOR AMENITIES RELATED TO THE APARTMENT LIFESTYLE.
BUT THE REC SPACE IS LIMITED TO, THERE'S POOL AREAS,
SO IT'S LOW INTENSE, YOU DON'T HAVE A PLACE FOR KIDS.
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING THERE, THERE'S NO, NO RECREATION FOR, FOR KIDS OUT ON THESE 470 UNITS TO DO ANYTHING.
WELL, THERE'S VERY FEW CHILDREN.
UM, AND, AND, UH, ERIC OUT OF 472 UNITS YES.
UM, ERIC CAN KIND OF RUN THROUGH THE DEMOCRATICS ONE, TWO BEDROOM.
[01:20:01]
MOSTLY, YEAH, VERY FEW, THREE BEDROOMS. IN FACT, I CAN, YEAH.SO MAYBE WE, VERY, VERY FEW, THREE BEDROOMS. UM, IN FACT, AUDUBON HAS NONE.
WE'VE GOT OUT OF, UH, WE HAVE 12 OUT OF 297, AND IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT SCHOOL AGED KIDS, WE, WE CAN, ERIC IS, IS HERE TO PRESENT HIS, HIS STUDY.
BUT, UH, I CAN TELL YOU, BASED ON BOTH OUR AND AUDUBON EXPERIENCE, THERE'S GONNA BE VERY, VERY FEW, VERY FEW HANDFUL BASIS, VERY FEW CHILDREN, VERY FEW CHILDREN, SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN, SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN.
IT, IT IS, IT IS A FUNCTION OF THE TYPE OF RENTER THAT COMES TO THESE PRO AND THIS IS BASED ON THOUSANDS OF UNITS OF EXPERIENCE.
'CAUSE THAT WAS GONNA BE ONE OF MY QUESTIONS TOO, LOOKING AT ALL THIS, BECAUSE I DON'T SEE ANY YEAH.
SPACE FOR KIDS TO PLAY RIDE BY FOR FOOTBALL.
I WAS GONNA SAY, TAKE THE DOG PARK AND MAKE IT A RECREATION FOR KIDS, WHATEVER.
BUT YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT THINKING YOU'RE GONNA HAVE ANY KIDS.
THEN WE'LL HAVE, I'LL PUT ON SOMETHING ANECDOTALLY.
UM, IT, THE BUS STOP THAT SERVES UBON ONLINE DEVELOPMENTS, PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER, THEY'RE FOR THE 282 APARTMENTS, I THINK THERE'S AROUND EIGHT, SEVEN TO EIGHT KIDS.
AND WE'VE HAD ISSUES WITH WHERE THEY PARK AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THAT, SO HOW COME WE NOT, SO THERE'S, THERE'S LIKE SEVEN TO EIGHT TOTAL KIDS THAT GET DROPPED OFF AT THE BUS THERE.
NOT SAYING THERE AREN'T MORE THAT GET DRIVEN TO SCHOOL CERTAINLY CAN'T ACCOUNT FOR THAT.
BUT ALSO ANECDOTALLY, I SWEAR EVERYBODY OVER THERE HAS A DOG
IT JUST, IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE EVERY TIME I DRIVE BY THERE, THERE'S SOMEBODY WALKING.
THERE'S AT LEAST TWO OR THREE PEOPLE OUT THERE WALKING DOGS.
AND I DON'T, I'M NOT A NINE TO FIVE OR KIND OF JOB
SO IT, IT'S, IT TO ME, I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM AND I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE SURPRISED ABOUT IT, BUT I, AND I I, I KNOW YOU'RE VERY SENSITIVE, THIS ISSUE.
SO I'VE BEEN LOOKING INTO IT AS BEST I CAN ANECDOTALLY, WITHOUT KNOCKING EVERYBODY DOOR TO SEE WHO HAS KIDS AND WHO HASN'T.
I DON'T THINK HIGH'S ASSERTION OF THE NUMBER IS THAT FAR OFF.
AND EVEN IN A CONVERSATION THAT I HAD WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT JUST TODAY, LITERALLY JUST TODAY ABOUT THEIR DEVELOPMENTS, THEY USE A RATIO OF, I THINK IT, UM, ERICA WAS THE NUMBER, UH, FOR WHAT THE TOTAL, THE NUMBER OF KIDS PER UNIT SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
WELL, IT'S, IT DEPENDS ON THE BEDROOMS, RIGHT? SO, RIGHT.
UM, WE USE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S LATEST MULTIPLIERS, WHICH IS, WHICH FOR THE ONE BEDROOM UNITS, THERE'S 0.023 SCHOOL AGE KIDS FOR ONE BEDROOM.
IT, IT GENERALLY, I THINK THE GENTLEMAN FROM FACILITIES TODAY SAID THAT IT'S 0.05 IS, IS THE RATIO THEY USE FOR AS AN OVERALL RATIO FOR APARTMENT BUILDINGS FOR ONE, TWO, AND THREE BEDROOM APARTMENTS, DEPENDING ON WHAT UNITS THEY ARE.
OBVIOUSLY DIFFERS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND, ABSOLUTELY UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERNS.
I HAVEN'T GIVEN UP ON THAT SURPRISE BECAUSE WE HAD THE SAME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PROBLEM AT THE TIME CENTER WHEN THEY BUILT THOSE ONES.
AND THEY SURE AS HELL, THERE'S GONNA BE ANY KIDS OR VERY, YOU KNOW, SMALL AMOUNT OF KIDS AND YOU'RE BACKING THAT UP NOW.
SO I, YOU, YOU GUYS HAVE DONE THE RESEARCH, SO I, YOU KNOW, I'M FLIRTING NOW TO RESPECT THAT OPINION, BUT YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT TELLS ME ALSO IS THE FACT THAT THAT MEANS THAT, UM, MOST OF THE APARTMENTS WILL BE HUSBAND AND WIFE OR, YOU KNOW, TWO, TWO OCCUPANTS, UH, ADULTS, WHICH MEANS TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, TWO CARS.
THERE'S PARKING, YOU SAID 800 PARKING SPOTS.
THAT MEANS, YOU KNOW, PEAK HOURS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE 800 CARS FLOWING THROUGH TWO ENTRANCES AND EXITS, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU COUNT IT.
UH, BRIAN
UH, AND THAT NUMBER HAS BORNE OUT ON IN INDEPENDENT STUDIES THAT, THAT I'VE DONE, UM, SEPARATELY.
SO I, I TAKE THOSE NUMBERS AND I, THEY'RE NATIONAL NUMBERS, BUT, BUT I'VE ALSO SEEN THEM SOME REPLICATED AND IT'S NOT NEAR NEARLY THAT LARGE OF A NUMBER.
UH, I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBERS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT THE, THE PEAK HOUR NUMBERS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN THAN ONE, ONE TRIP PER UNIT.
YOU'RE ABOUT 200 PEAK HOUR TRIPS, BRIAN.
YOU, YOU DON'T VERY PEAK HOUR.
SO APARTMENTS HAVE HAVE A, UM, A MORE LIKELIHOOD TO SPREAD OUT OVER, OVER TIME AND NOT
[01:25:01]
BE CONCENTRATED IN THAT PEAK HOUR, WHEREAS YOU SEE, UH, THE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS ARE, ARE MORE CONCENTRATED.WELL, I THINK, I THINK THAT THAT BORES TRUE TO, TO, AGAIN, PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
'CAUSE I DON'T THINK WE'RE SEEING ANY LARGE TRAFFIC COMING OUT OF THERE OR INTO THERE, UM, IN ANY KIND OF NOTICEABLE FASHION.
SO THAT KIND OF BORES THAT OUT ALSO.
SO THE OTHER, THE OTHER WAIVERS TOO HAVE TO DO WITH, UM, STORM WATER.
AND AGAIN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE MINOR IN THE SCHEME OF, IN THE SCHEME, OVERALL SCHEME OF THINGS.
UM, SO WE, AS PART OF THE HOP DESIGN THAT WE'RE COORDINATING WITH TRAFFIC PLANNING, THE DESIGN, WE'RE, UM, MANAGING THE, UM, STORM WATER, UH, RELATED TO ROUTE 29, UH, THE ROUTE 29 IMPROVEMENTS.
UM, WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS THAT, UH, WE ARE MEETING ALL OF THE REDUCTION REQUIREMENTS FOR THE STORMWATER THAT'S RELATED TO THE PROPOSED SITE IMPROVEMENTS.
WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IN THIS INSTANCE IS A PARTIAL WAIVER NOT TO NEED TO PROVIDE FOR THE 52 50 TO TWO REDUCTION, UH, FOR, UM, THE PORTION OF THE DRAINAGE THAT WE'RE MANAGING THAT'S ORIGINATING FROM, UH, ROUTE 29.
SO WE WILL BE MANAGING THAT STORMWATER IN ACCORDANCE WITH PENDOT STANDARD.
WE'RE JUST NOT APPLYING THE, UM, REDUCTION TO THAT FLOW.
UM, THE SECOND WAIVER, UH, BECAUSE OF THE SOILS, WE ARE RELYING ON, UH, MRC, UH, STORMWATER BASINS BENEATH THE PARKING LOTS.
AND THE WAY THAT THEY OPERATE IS THAT THEY, UH, RETAIN THE STORMWATER FOR A LONGER TERM THAN 24 HOURS AND A TRADITIONAL, UH, SURFACE BASIN WOOD.
AND SO THERE'S A PROVISION IN YOUR STORMWATER ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRES STORMWATER BASINS TO RETURN TO THEIR ORIGINAL CONDITION WITHIN 24 HOURS.
AND SO WE RETURN A LITTLE BIT LATER.
SO WE'RE ASKING FOR, UH, A WAIVER FROM THAT PROVISION OF THE ORDINANCE.
AND AGAIN, THAT'S NOT UN UNCOMMON, UM, IN TERMS OF, UH, OTHER MUNICIPALITIES.
AND, UM, UH, WITH THE ADVENT OF MRC, UM, UH, STORMWATER FACILITIES, PLEASE EXPLAIN MRC TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
SO, UM, THE MRC BASINS ARE BASINS THAT, UM, WILL RETAIN THE STORMWATER FOR IN AN EXTENDED DURATION BECAUSE WE CAN'T MANAGE, UM, OR, UM, UM, ACHIEVE, GENERATE THE, UM, INFILTRATION REQUIREMENT BECAUSE OF THE SOIL CONDITIONS.
SO TO MEET THE WATER QUALITY REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE MANDATED BY THE STATE FOR THE NPDS PERMIT, WE HOLD ONTO THAT STORM WATER FOR A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME IN LARGER UNDERGROUND FACILITIES SO THAT THE SUSPENDED, UH, SOLIDS IN THAT WILL SETTLE OUT AS PART OF THAT AND HELP TO IMPROVE, UH, WATER QUALITY.
THAT'S A VERY HIGH LEVEL, UH, EXPLANATION IN THE OPERATIONS.
PARDON? WHAT DOES MRC STAND FOR? IT STANDS FOR MANAGED RELEASE CONCEPT.
IT'S A, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A RATHER, UH,
PAIGE, DID I MISS ANYTHING OR LEAVE ANYTHING OUT ON THAT, WHEN THAT'S RELEASED, WHERE DOES THAT STORM WATER GO? UM, OUR STORM WATER, UH, DISCHARGES IN, UM, TWO, TWO LO THREE LOCATIONS.
UM, SOME OF THE STORMWATER, UM, WHICH WE'RE KIND OF PICKING UP WHAT'S COMING OFF OF THE BUSINESS CENTER ON THE CO UH, ALONG THE COMMON PROPERTY LINE IS, UM, DISCHARGING UP THROUGH HERE, UH, BY A LEVEL SPREADER.
THERE'S ANOTHER OUTFALL AT THE CORNER HERE, WHICH THEN WILL GO OVER LAND, UH, AND DISCHARGE TOWARDS THE WETLANDS.
UH, AND I THINK THE THIRD IS HERE, AND ANOTHER SMALLER ONE IS DOWN IN THIS CORNER.
WHEN YOU SAY DISCHARGE MM-HMM
DOES THAT MEAN PARTICULARLY THE ONE ON THE LOWER LEVEL? AND IS THAT DISCHARGE OVER THE SURFACE? YES.
IT'S A SURFACE DISCHARGE, CORRECT.
THE OTHER TWO, UH, WAIVERS, AGAIN, ARE, ARE RELATIVELY MODEST, UM, OR ARE MODEST.
UM, AGAIN, SINCE THE, UM, PROJECT IS, IS ALL PRIVATE IMPROVEMENTS IN TERMS OF THE PAVEMENTS, THE SIDEWALKS, THE CURVING, ET CETERA, UM, THERE'S A PROVISION IN THE OF DIVISIONED ORDINANCE WITH RESPECT TO THE PLACEMENT
[01:30:01]
OF TREES AND SEPARATIONS FROM CURBING, UM, UH, SIDEWALK AND UTILITIES.WE'RE ASKING FOR A PARTIAL WAIVER FOR THE SEPARATION REQUIREMENT FOR CURBING AND SIDEWALKS.
UH, WE WILL MEET THE REQUIREMENT FOR SEPARATION FROM UTILITIES, UM, WHICH IS 10 FEET.
UM, AND, UM, SO WE'RE, WE'RE ASKING AGAIN FOR THAT WAIVER SIMPLY BECAUSE IN SOME INSTANCES, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ORDINANCE ALLOWS FOR LANDSCAPE STRIPS TO BE, YOU KNOW, FIVE FEET WIDE.
WE HAVE A SEVEN FOOT WIDE, UH, LANDSCAPE STRIP HERE AND HERE.
AND SO WITH TREES PLANTED IN THE MIDDLE, WE'RE A COUPLE FEET SHORT ON EITHER END.
UM, SIMILARLY, THE LANDSCAPE ISLANDS INTERNAL TO PARKING LOT CAN BE, UH, NINE FEET BY CODE.
UH, AGAIN, THE ORDINANCE SAYS WE HAVE TO BE FIVE FEET FROM THE CURB, WHICH IS CONTRARY TO WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS WE CAN DO.
SO WE'RE ASKING FOR, UM, MODIFICATIONS TO ADDRESS THOSE, UH, KIND OF, UH, UNIQUE, UM, UM, CITING, UM, CRITERIA FOR, FOR LANDSCAPING.
SO BOTTOM LINE IS THAT IF OVER TIME TREE ROOTS, UM, HEAVE A SIDEWALK OR PUSH OUT A CURB, THAT'S GONNA BE ON US TO, TO FIX.
UM, AND WE'RE PREPARED TO TAKE ON THAT, THAT BURDEN IF THE BOARD AND PLANNING COMMISSIONER ARE INCLINED TO GRANT THAT WAIVER.
THE LAST ITEM HAS TO DO WITH, UH, TRAFFIC AND, UM, THE RECONSTRUCTION OF THE DRIVEWAY.
AS PART OF THE ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS THAT ERIC AND TPD AND FRANK ARE WORKING ON, THEY'LL NEED TO RE REBUILD THIS DRIVEWAY.
AND, UH, WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS, SINCE THAT DRIVEWAY IS GONNA TAKE ACCESS TO ROUTE 29, WHICH IS A STATE HIGHWAY THAT WE WAIVE THE TOWNSHIP REQUIREMENTS IN LIEU OF PENDOT STANDARD FOR, UH, THE DRIVEWAY THAT PROVIDES FOR THE LEAST AMOUNT OF IMPACT TO THAT, UM, RECONSTRUCTION OF THAT DRIVEWAY AND STILL PRESENTS A SAFE CONDITION FOR, UM, THE, THE, THE OWNERSHIP.
UM, SO THAT IS EIGHT WAIVERS IN TOTAL THAT WE WANTED TO SHARE, GET YOUR FEEDBACK AND HOPEFULLY YOUR POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION.
UM, AND WITH THAT, I'LL TAKE QUESTIONS OR TURN BACK TO, WELL, BEFORE YOU DO THAT, LET ME, UM, LET ME SWITCH OVER TO OUR, BECAUSE ALL THAT STUFF YOU JUST MENTIONED, LIKE JEFF SAID, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT I WAS JUST GOING TO SUGGEST.
YEAH, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE KNOW.
SO WE GO OVER TO JEN AND, AND, AND BRIAN TO SAY, OKAY, ALL THESE WAIVERS THEY WANT, WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? SO, UM, AS ED HAD SAID, WE DID MEET AND DISCUSS, UM, POINTS IN THE LETTER OF, OF ORIGINAL LETTER, UM, AND I DO WANNA POINT OUT THAT THERE WAS A NUMBERING ISSUE ON OUR END THAT WE WENT FROM 86 TO 1 36, SO WE SKIPPED 50 IN THERE.
SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE TOTAL COMMENTS, IT IS ACTUALLY LESS.
UM, REGARDING THE WAIVERS THEMSELVES IN, IN PRINCIPLE, WE HAVE NO ISSUE, UM, WITH THEM, I DO SUGGEST THAT, UM, FOR NUMBER FIVE, THIS IS THE STORMWATER REDUCTION ONE.
AGAIN, THEY'RE GONNA SATISFY PENDOT, 'CAUSE PENNDOT'S NOT GONNA LET THEM NOT SATISFY PENDO.
UM, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR THE WAIVER FOR THE 50 TO TWO.
I JUST SUGGEST THAT THE, UM, STIPULATION BE ADDED THAT YOU'RE MATCHING PEAKS.
I ASSUME GREEN POST, THEY'RE JUST NOT DOING THE REDUCTION.
UM, BUT THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE INCREASING AT THAT AT THAT POINT.
THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT WON'T LET THEM DO THAT EITHER.
AND THEN, UM, FOR NUMBER SEVEN, I THINK I HEARD YOU SAY THAT YOU WERE INTENDING ON, UM, KEEPING THE TREES 10 FEET FROM THE UNDERGROUND CORRECT.
SO PERHAPS THAT DOESN'T NEED TO BE INCLUDED IN THE WAIVER LANGUAGE.
UM, MY CONCERN FOR THOSE IS THE MAJORITY OF THE UNDERGROUND BASINS, OBVIOUSLY, UM, BUT AS MR. LUARD HAD POINTED OUT REGARDING THE CURB AND SIDEWALK TOWNSHIP'S NOT TAKING DEDICATION OF THOSE ITEMS, SO IT WOULDN'T BE OUR EXPENSE TO, TO FIX.
SO YEAH, AGAIN, IN PRINCIPLE AND THEN THE OFFSITE, UM, DRIVEWAY AREA, I MEAN, IT'S EXISTING CONDITION, SO WE WANT THEM TO WIDEN THE ROAD THEIR HAMSTRUNG BY SOME EXISTING, AND AS LONG AS CONDITIONS OUT THERE MOST TOWARDS THE DEPEND ON ISSUES OR SATISFIES THEIR ISSUES, WE SHOULD BE, BUT CORRECT.
HEY, JUDGE, JUST JUST FOR MY OWN IGNORANCE, UM, THESE UNDERGROUND FACILITIES, THE WATER'S GOING TO THESE UNDERGROUND MM-HMM
HOW DO YOU MAINTAIN THOSE? DON'T THEY FILL UP WITH DIRT AND STUFF? IT'S NOT FILLING UP.
THEY DO, AND, AND THERE'S AN OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE, UM, STIPULATION.
UM, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH THE TOWNSHIP, BUT IN PRACTICALITY ON THE SITE, THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT LOOKS AT ALL OF THE MAINTENANCE REQUIREMENTS FOR
[01:35:01]
ANY VM PS THAT THEY PUT IN THERE.AND THOSE WILL ALL BE ON THE RECORDED, UM, POST-CONSTRUCTION STORMWATER MANAGEMENT DOCUMENTS.
SO YEAH, THEY HAVE TO INSPECT 'EM.
THEY CAN FLUSH 'EM, THEY CAN VACUUM OUT SEDIMENT.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT GO INTO THAT.
DO YOU EVER SEE A CASE WHERE THEY'VE HAD TO DIG THEM UP AND CLEAN 'EM UP? NOT SO MUCH DIG THEM UP.
I MEAN, NOT IN THEIR ENTIRETY.
UM, BUT THEY MIGHT HAVE TO DO, UM, VACUUM OUT THE SEDIMENT.
SO THERE'S A WAY TO PUT A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT DOWN IN THERE AND VACUUM IT OUT.
THERE'S A VACUUM TRUCK, IT'LL COME IN AND IT'LL PINE A PLANT ITSELF RIGHT ON TOP OF IT AND YEP.
TOM, IF I MAY, THE OPEN SPACE WAIVERS REALLY ARE THE, WHAT IT'S ASKING FOR IS REALLY DESIGNED IF THE TOWNSHIP WAS TO TAKE THE PROPERTY SO THAT WE'RE GUARANTEED THAT THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF LEVEL AREA, THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DRY GROUND WAIVERS LIKE THIS ARE IN MY MIND, ACCEPTABLE BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA MAINTAIN AND KEEP THE PROPERTY.
SO JUST FROM MY STANDPOINT, THAT'S, THAT, THAT'S GOOD FEEDBACK BECAUSE THAT YEAH, THAT'S GOOD FEEDBACK THAT, THAT HE'S ASKING FOR OUR FEEDBACK AND WE CERTAINLY DON'T HAVE THE, ALL THAT KNOWLEDGE.
WE'RE NOT GONNA, BUT IF YOU GUYS SAY IT'S COOL.
WHO WOULD ME, I RECOMMENDED THESE WAIVERS BECAUSE THEY, THEY DON'T MEET THE REQUIREMENTS AND I DON'T, I THINK IT'S A SUPPORTABLE WAIVER BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO MAINTAIN THE PROPERTY.
AND IT'S NOT EVEN AN INDIVIDUAL HOA WHERE IT COULD BE 15 OR 18 OR 25 HOMES.
IT IS ONE COMPANY OR IT'S A COMPANY YEAH.
THAT, THAT'S MAINTAINED THE ENTIRE SITE.
WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GONNA COME BACK TO ME.
I DO JUST WANNA POINT OUT, UM, IN THE BODY OF THE LETTER, ALL OF OUR COMMENTS ARE WRITTEN, ASSUMING THAT THEY'RE GONNA GET THEIR CL MAR APPROVAL.
UM, THERE'S A LOT OF ZONING ITEMS THAT ARE LISTED IN THE LETTER THAT YOU CAN READ AND THEY'LL SAY, YOU KNOW, IF KMAR WOULD ADDRESS THIS, AND THEN THIS WILL NOT BE REQUIRED ANYMORE.
UM, I WANNA POINT THAT OUT THAT WE HAVE THAT LANGUAGE IN THERE.
SHOULD FEMA COME BACK WITH THEIR CALCULATIONS AND MOVE THAT LINE, THEN WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO REVISIT THOSE IN THE PAST.
BUT IF, IF KMAR, YOU KNOW, IS APPROVED AS IS ON THE PLAN, THEN THE MAJORITY OF THOSE COMMENTS WILL GO AWAY.
UH, FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, I'VE GOT NO, NO ISSUES WITH ANY OF THE WAIVERS.
UH, THE ONLY ONE ITEM I WOULD JUST BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION IS THAT, UH, WE DO HAVE A REVIEW LETTER DATED NOVEMBER 18TH, WHICH IS NOT IN YOUR PACKET FROM THE BOROUGH OF COLLEGEVILLE ENGINEER BECAUSE THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING WILL GO INTO THE BOROUGH OF COLLEGEVILLE.
UM, THAT'S LATE, LATE BREAKING NEWS.
UM, BUT, UH, THERE'S NOTHING SIGNIFICANT IN THERE OUTSIDE OF THE COMMENTS THAT WE ALREADY HAD, UH, SIMPLY BECAUSE WE ALSO REPRESENT THE BOROUGH OF COLLEGEVILLE.
SO, WELL, THERE'S A, THERE'S A SEPARATE, A SEPARATE REVIEW LETTER DATED YES.
DID HE HAVE ISSUES WITH ANY THAT ENGINEER OR THAT PERSON WHO CALLED THAT? THAT'S ME.
OH, DID YOU, DID YOU HAVE ANY WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW THERE'S ANOTHER GUY IN YOUR COMPANY.
SO DID YOU HAVE ANY, DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS TO THE OTHER SIDE OF YOU? NO.
UH, SO, UH, BASICALLY IT WAS A FORMALIZATION ON BEHALF OF THE BOROUGH OF COLLEGEVILLE OF THE ITEMS THAT WE ALSO IDENTIFIED IN UPPER PROVIDENCE LETTER.
BUT THAT, THAT LETTER IS OUT THERE, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT AWARE ON THE RECORD, SO TO BRIAN TO AGREE THAT EVERYTHING MOVES
SO, AND CURIOUSLY, HAS PENNDOT GIVEN ANY OPINION ABOUT THE ISSUES WITH THE 29 ROAD WORK THAT NEEDS TO OCCUR FOR THIS TO, TO HAPPEN? YES.
SO THEY HAVE, THEY'VE SUBMITTED, UH, HOP PLANS TO PENN KNOT.
THERE HAVE BEEN, UM, OR THE STUDY'S BEEN SUBMITTED.
UM, AND THE HOP PLANS ARE ON THEIR WAY.
THE, THE HOP PLANS WERE SUBMITTED WHEN YOU REVIEWED THEM AS WELL.
AND YOU KNOW, NO, NO COMMENTS THAT WERE OF CONCERN FROM THEM.
THEY, THEY, THEY'VE GOT, THEY'VE GOT, THEY'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE ISSUES TO, TO BE ADDRESSED, BUT NOTHING, UH, OF, OF SIGNIFICANCE.
UH, PROBABLY THE BIGGEST ONE IS THE CONTINUED COORDINATION WITH THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE PROPOSED BY THE ADJACENT
IT'S, THAT'S ANOTHER THAT'S SEPARATE ISSUE ONGOING.
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE, THAT YOU GUYS WILL BE DOING? THE 20? WHO WANTS? ERIC? ERIC, DO YOU WANT PLEASE, YOU CAN USE THE PODIUM IF YOU WANTED TO STOP
I MEAN, PAUL MIGHT NEED TO GET UP AND WALK AROUND.
[01:40:01]
UH, YEAH, WE DID A LOT OF FRONT UP UPFRONT COORDINATION ON THIS PROJECT, UH, KNOWING THAT THE YERKES PROJECT WAS IN PLAY.UH, ESSENTIALLY TO BOIL IT DOWN TO THE SIMPLEST TERMS IS THE YERKES PROJECT AT HOPWOOD ROAD IS GONNA HAVE A FIVE LANE CROSS SECTION ON ROUTE 29, A LEFT TURN LANE, TWO THROUGH LANES IN EACH DIRECTION TO THE NORTH IN COLLEGEVILLE AT THE WAWA SIGNAL.
IT WAS WIDENED WHEN THE, UH, BUSINESS, UH, DEVELOPMENT WENT IN AS WELL AS THE WAWA TO PROVIDE FOR THAT FIVE LANE CROSS SECTION.
WE'RE ESSENTIALLY CONNECTING THE DOTS FROM THE WAWA SIGNAL IN COLLEGEVILLE DOWN TO THE HOPWOOD, UH, IMPROVEMENTS BY
IT WILL BE A FIVE LANE CROSS SECTION THROUGH THAT AREA.
SO, SO WHERE, WHERE, WHERE, WHERE DO YOU DO YOU GOING ALL THE WAY TO YERKES? WE'RE GOING, YEAH, WE WILL TIE IN NORTH OF HOPWOOD ROAD WHERE THE YERKES IMPROVEMENTS.
SO NORTH OF HOPWOOD ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH
HOW LONG IS THAT GONNA TAKE?
NO, HONESTLY, WE, WE SUBMITTED TO PEN PENDO, THE OP PLANS.
WE SUBMITTED 'EM TO BRIAN'S OFFICE, THE REVIEW COMMENTS CAME BACK, YOU KNOW, PRETTY INNOCUOUS.
YOU MEAN HOW LONG IT'S GONNA TAKE TO BILL? WELL, YEAH, ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, FOR THE ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, IT WOULD BE ONE CONSTRUCTION SEASON.
UM, NOW WE HAVEN'T SEEN S LIKE THE, I MEAN, ARE THEY MAKING THE APPROVED AT THE SAME TIME SO THAT THEY'RE WELL, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO COORDINATE THAT AND, AND TO THIS APPLICANT'S CREDIT THEY HAVE, WE, WE PUT TOGETHER A MEETING IN JULY.
UM, WHERE WE HAD YY STATION, PENN UP, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, EVERYBODY HERE, UM, GALMAN HIGH, ANYBODY WE CAN THINK OF, WE HAD AT THIS MEETING, I, COLLEGEVILLE AND COLLEGEVILLE WAS HERE, UM, THAT WE ALL SAT DOWN AND WE TALKED ABOUT TIMING AND SCHEDULES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
THEIR TIMING WAS TO HAVE A FINAL PLAN INTO US BY THE END OF THE YEAR TO HOPEFULLY BE APPROVED BY THE FOURTH QUARTER.
WE CAN SEE HOW THAT'S PROGRESSED.
UM, IT, IT, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY HAVE A, A, A STUDY OF THE BRIDGE, HYDROLOGY AND HYDRAULICS.
I'M NEVER GONNA REMEMBER THAT.
A VERY SCIENTIFIC STUDY OF THE, OF THE BRIDGE AND, AND THE WATER DOWN BY THEIR PROPERTY AND HOW THAT'S WORKING TO GET PINNED OUT TO APPROVE IT.
THAT SUPPOSEDLY IS EITHER GOING IN THIS WEEK OR NEXT WEEK.
THAT PROCESS HAS ALSO BEEN GOING ON SINCE BEFORE OUR JULY MEETING.
SO I'M NOT SURE WHERE THEY ARE.
WE'RE TRYING TO GET THEM TO SHARE INFORMATION.
UM, WE'RE HOPING THAT THAT, THAT THEY EVENTUALLY DO.
THEY SAY THEY'RE GOING TO, UM, BUT THIS GROUP HAS BEEN FORTHCOMING AND TRYING AND TRYING TO COORDINATE GALMAN HAS NOT BEEN AS FORTHCOMING FOR WHATEVER REASONS THAT THEY CHOSE NOT TO.
THANKS FOR, 'CAUSE IT JUST SEEMS TO MAKE SENSE TO TRY TO COORDINATE THAT.
AND, AND, AND, AND TO BE CLEAR, THEY'VE EXPRESSED THAT THEY WANNA WORK TOGETHER AND GET ALL THE IMPROVEMENTS DONE AT THE SAME TIME.
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
I'M JUST SAY THANK YOU FOR TAKING YOUR PART IN.
UM, IF I COULD ALSO HAVE, BEFORE WE GET ON SOMETHING ELSE, PAUL, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE TRAIL CONNECTION? 'CAUSE THAT WAS SOMETHING WE TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME THAT PROBABLY HASN'T MADE A LOT OF CHANGE, BUT I KNOW YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING IN OUR LAST MEETING, BUT I THOUGHT THEY WERE, THEY WERE ALL OF THE PRIVATE PROPERTY TO THE WEST.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE PROPO WE'RE PROPOSING A SIDEWALK IMPROVEMENT STREETSCAPE, UM, ALONG 29 NORTH.
UM, THE SIDEWALK, THERE'S A SEGMENT THAT WILL GET, UM, CONSTRUCTED AS PART OF THE HOP PLANS HERE IN FRONT OF THE DENTIST OFFICE TO CONNECT WITH THE EXISTING SIDEWALK AT THE BUSINESS CENTER.
SIMILARLY, UM, AT THE INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS, PEDESTRIAN ACCOMMODATIONS ARE PROPOSED AT THE INTER, AT THE SIGNAL.
UM, SO PEDESTRIANS BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, CROSS AT THIS LOCATION, UM, AT EITHER NORTH OR SOUTH OF THE MAIN ENTRANCE.
AND FROM THAT POINT, UM, BASED ON EXISTING CONDITION AND WHAT'S AVAILABLE, EXISTING SIDEWALK PEDESTRIANS WOULD TRAVEL NORTH ON THE EAST SIDE OF, UM, UH, 29, UM, TO THE PARK AVENUE ENTRANCE, UM, TO THE PER HUMAN TRAIL, AND THEN COME AND THEN COME DOWN SOUTH.
UM, BACKTRACKING, UM, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND, AND TONY CAN SPEAK TO THIS, THAT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THAT WE'VE BEEN TASK TO, YOU KNOW, CONTINUE TO, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, TO TALK WITH PERCUMIN WOODS ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL CONNECTION THIS WAY.
UM, BUT, UH, RIGHT NOW THAT'S, THAT'S HOW WE WILL FACILITATE THAT CONNECTION.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, DOING OUR, OUR SIDE AND, AND CERTAINLY MAKING THE CONNECTIONS AVAILABLE SO THE PEDESTRIANS WILL BE ABLE TO GET UP TO THE TRAIL.
AND THEN I, I DID NOTICE, I DID NOTE IT ON,
[01:45:01]
UH, THE PLANT, BUT THERE'S, THERE'S ABOUT A MILE SIDEWALK, UM, UH, INTERNAL TO THE SITE.SO PEDESTRIANS AND RESIDENTS WILL BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, UM, ACCESS THE SIDEWALKS THROUGH THE SITE, CROSS UP AND GET TO THE DOG PARK AND BACK TO THE DOG PARK.
SO THERE'S MORE THAN SUFFICIENT AND ADEQUATE PEDESTRIAN ACCOMMODATIONS, UM, TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF, UH, THE OPEN SPACE THAT WE'RE PROPOSING.
AND THEN, UH, GETTING TO THE, TO THE, TO THE TRAIL.
I HOPE I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION.
I WANTED THEM TO EXPLAIN THAT BECAUSE AS MUCH AS WE WOULD LIKE THE CONNECTION THROUGH PERM IN WOODS, IT MAY REQUIRE FURTHER, ABOVE AND BEYOND LEGAL ACTION TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
AND WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO PUT PERM WOODS THROUGH THAT OR PUT THE BOARD IN A POSITION TO WHERE THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I THINK THEY'VE DONE A GOOD JOB OF FIGURING OUT A WAY AROUND THAT.
AGAIN, IT'S NOT IDEAL AND THEY'RE STILL LOOKING.
AND I THINK TONY WAS STILL GOING TO BE REACHING OUT TO PERMAN WOODS TO SEE IF PERM OKAY.
THEY, THEY DON'T WANT TO, THEY, THEY'VE EXPRESSED THAT THEY, THEY, THEY DON'T KNOW THEIR TERMS, SO THEY WANT A TRAIL THROUGH THEIR OPENING PART OF THEIR PROPERTY.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT IS A DEAD ISSUE, BUT THEY HAVE PROVIDED OTHER ALTERNATIVES TO US, WHICH IS GREAT.
AND WE'RE, I THINK THEY'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO REACH OUT AND SEE WHAT THEY CAN FIND OUT.
JUST, JUST FOR MY CURIOSITY, SO YOU'RE SAYING THE MAIN ENTRANCE THERE, THE MAIN DRIVEWAY, THEY'RE GONNA PUT IN SOME SORT OF PEDESTRIAN, LIKE, YOU KNOW, PUSH A BUTTON AND THEN THE LIGHT COMES ON.
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO STOP TRAFFIC AND ALL THAT STUFF, RIGHT.
SO YOU'RE GONNA FIX ALL THAT ROAD TO MAKE PEOPLE FLY DOWN THERE AND GET DOWN TO COLLEGEVILLE, THEN YOU'RE GONNA SLOW US DOWN BY PUTTING THIS
'CAUSE THEY GOTTA HIT, THEY GOTTA BE SLOW GOING INTO THE LIGHT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL.
I KNOW, BUT YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU'RE FIXING THAT ROAD, MAKING IT NICE SO PEOPLE CAN, YOU KNOW, NOT FLY.
BUT PEOPLE CAN SMOOTHLY GO THROUGH THAT WHOLE THING AND THEN YOU'RE GONNA SLOW AND DIE.
SO WHY DON'T YOU PUT A BRIDGE OR SOMETHING? TUNNEL ECOMMERCE.
THAT JUST SEEMS A LITTLE, I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE DOING IT AND I UNDERSTAND IT HAS TO BE DONE, BUT IT JUST, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE NICE HERE.
FIX THAT ROAD AND THEN YOU'RE GONNA SLOW EVERYBODY DOWN.
I, I THINK THAT DO HAS SOMETHING TO SAY.
ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC? I SEE SOME PUBLIC PEOPLE HERE.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THIS OR ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT IT OR ANY FEEDBACK? AND I'M LOOKING AT YOU THREE SITTING BACK THERE, AND I GUESS YOU GUYS DON'T, HUH? YOU GUYS ARE COOL.
WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING TO TONY HOPEFULLY SOON.
WELL I, AND THEN WHEN YOU TALK TO TONY, I'M SURE HE'LL WORK WITH YOU.
WELL, ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? UH, LEMME THINK I WAS WONDERING ABOUT TOM, I I, I HEARD THE COMMENT THAT ALL THE, UH, THINGS THAT, UH, JEN BROUGHT UP IN HER LETTER ARE GONNA BE ADDRESSED.
UM, THERE WAS THE ONE COMMENT ABOUT THE, THE BUFFER TO THE ADJACENT NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT? MM-HMM
AND, UH, THERE WAS SOME THINGS, SOMETHING IN THERE ABOUT RETAINING WALLS.
I MEAN, THIS IS GETTING INTO SOME DETAIL, BUT, UH, I MEAN, DID YOU SEE ANY SORT OF ISSUES WITH THEM? UH, I MEAN, ARE THERE ANY ISSUES GETTING THAT PARTICULAR ONE RESOLVED? UH, THE REASON I BRING IT UP IS I REMEMBER SOME OF THE EARLY MEETINGS, SOME OF THE FEEDBACK WE HEARD FROM THE NEIGHBORS WAS CONCERNED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE PROXIMITY OF THE, THIS THREE STORY, THREE STORY BUILDING, RIGHT? THIS, UH, BUILDING NUMBER ONE, UH, TO THE PROPERTY AND, AND, YOU KNOW, UH, HOW EFFECTIVE OF A LANDSCAPE SCREEN IS THAT REALLY GONNA BE THERE? UM, AND UH, WE, UH, AGAIN, I'M GETTING INTO THE WEEDS A LITTLE BIT, BUT I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE COMMENT ABOUT THE RETAINING WALLS AND THE, AND THE SPACE.
HAVE YOU MET WITH THE, UH, IS THAT GONNA BE, WE, WE HAVE, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THE NEIGHBORS IN COLLEGEVILLE, UM, ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS.
AND WE'VE OFFERED, I THINK THAT FROM OUR LAST MEETING, THAT COMPLAIN.
WE'RE GONNA MEET WITH THOSE FOLKS.
WE HAVE, WE'VE MET WITH THEM MANY TIMES.
UM, A NUMBER OF THEM WALKED THE BACKYARD, UH, DID THE SAME BY THE WAY, WITH PERMAN.
BUT, UM, PAUL ADDRESS THE COMMENT THOUGH.
WE'RE, WE WE'RE BUT YOU ADDRESSED THAT SPECIFICALLY.
WE, WE DID, DID DISCUSS THAT DURING OUR STAFF MEETING.
UM, AND HE'S SPEAKING TO MIKEY.
WE, WE DID DISCUSS, UM, THAT ITEM.
WE ARE GOING TO BE PROVIDING SOME SUPPLEMENTAL DETAIL RELATIVE TO THE WALL TO DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION.
THE WALL IS OKAY TO BE IN IT, UM, IN THE BUFFER AREA.
AND THERE'S SUFFICIENT ROOM FOR THE, FOR THE LANDSCAPE.
WE DID DISCUSS THE FACT THAT THERE'S AN ELEVATION CHANGE IN THE PARKING LOT.
IT'S GONNA BE SITTING UP HIGHER.
UM, SINCE WE HAVE TO, UH, HAVE A FENCE IN THAT LOCATION FOR FALL PROTECTION, WE'RE GONNA REVISE THE, UH, FENCE DETAIL TO BE A SOLID FENCE SOLUTION SO THAT IT WOULD INTERCEPT
[01:50:01]
ANY VEHICLE HEADLIGHTS THAT MIGHT BE, UH, HEADED PAST, UH, THE, THE WALL AND, AND HELP TO MITIGATE THAT IMPACT.THAT, THAT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THERE, THERE'S A NUMBER OF THINGS GOING ON THERE.
YOU'RE ALSO DOING YOUR STORM WATER MANAGEMENT THERE, AND SO YOU'VE GOT SOME GRADE CHANGE AND CORRECT.
YOU'VE GOT THE HEIGHT OF THE PLANTINGS AND THE WALL.
SO AGAIN, IT'S GETTING INTO THE, THE WEEDS A LITTLE BIT.
THERE'S A, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON THERE.
I WAS JUST CURIOUS WHEN I SAW THAT, THOSE COMMENTS, BUT THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.
YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS WE AS A PLANNING COMMISSION, WE ALWAYS LIKED THE APPLICANT AND IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU, YOU KNOW, TALK TO THE NEIGHBORS, YOU KNOW, GET THEIR INPUTS SO THAT, YOU KNOW, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE AND THERE'S NOBODY HERE TO, SO IT MUST BE, YOU MUST BE DOING THAT DUE DILIGENCE AND THANK YOU FOR THAT ALSO.
'CAUSE THAT ALWAYS MAKES IT EASIER FOR US WHEN WE KNOW THE NEIGHBORS ARE SOMEWHAT SATISFIED AND THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON AND THEY'RE PART OF IT.
ANYTHING ELSE FROM THIS BOARD, ZACH? NOTHING.
ANY, WHAT SHOULD WE DO HERE?
SOMEBODY WANTS TO MAKE THAT MOTION.
ROBERT, THIS IS WHAT NOW THIS IS PRELIMINARY, CORRECT? YES.
I'LL MAKE THE MOTION THAT, UH, WE RECOMMEND TO THE BOARD THE PRELIMINARY PLAN THAT WAS PRESENTED TONIGHT.
AND I WOULD JUST, UH, RECOMMENDATION ON THE WAIVERS TOO.
I WAS GONNA SAY, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NEED TO GO THROUGH INDIVIDUALLY IF YOU WANT TO, YOU CERTAINLY CAN.
UM, IF NOT, YOU CAN JUST MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
YEAH, LET'S JUST ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ON ALL OF THEM.
THE WAIVERS AS OF THE DATE OF THIS LETTER.
MAKE SURE THAT THE WAIVERS ARE ALL UP TO DATE AND, UH, AND COUNTED FOR.
UM, AND HIS MOTION BASICALLY IS TO PROVE THIS TO BE RECOMMENDED TO THE SUPERVISORS WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT THE, UH, THE, UH, PROVISIONS ARE MET AND, AND ALL THOSE, UH, WAIVERS ARE ADDRESSED.
SO ANYBODY WANNA SAY ANYTHING? ALL THESE PEOPLE.
YOU COULD SAY SOMETHING IF YOU WANT.
YOU REALLY ALWAYS BRING AN ARMY WITH YOU, ED, I GET YOU CREDIT.
IF IT'S NOT TO A FIGHT, YOU ALWAYS WANNA HAVE THE STATE ODDS ON YOUR SIDE.
YEAH, YOU ALWAYS HAVE BE ON SIDE OF OUR NUMBER I NUMBER WHO IS HERE OR SUPERVISORS.
WE TALK ABOUT PARKHOUSE PUNCH ME.
WELL, AND I CAN SEE THAT SOMETIMES YOU, YOU GET THE LORD PEOPLE ONCE IN A WHILE.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
SO FUTURE JEFF.ALRIGHT, SO DECEMBER 3RD, WHICH IS OUR NEXT MEETING, WHICH THANKS GUYS.
RAPIDLY APPROACHING THE MONTH OF DECEMBER.
I OF CRAZY, UM, LOVE'S LANE HAS ASKED TO BE ON THAT.
THEY HAVE GIVEN ME AN EXTENSION, WHICH I THINK I REFLECT ON THE AGENDA THROUGH JANUARY 31ST.
AND IF I THINK JENNA'S IN THE PROCESS OF REVIEWING THOSE PLANS, IF THERE AREN'T ANY ISSUES, I THINK THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE ON DECEMBER 3RD AGENDA, I THINK.
AND WHAT IS, WHAT IS THEIR, IS THAT PRELIMINARY OR WHAT IS THEIRS? THAT'S TENTATIVE AND PRELIMINARY AND FINAL BECAUSE THE BOARD, WHEN THEY, WHEN THEY WERE IN FRONT OF THE BOARD FOR TENTATIVE, THE BOARD SAID, WE WANNA SEE MORE INFORMATION, WE WANNA SEE MORE DETAIL.
SO THE APPLICANT WENT BACK AND HAS BEEN WORKING THROUGH ALL OF PRELIMINARY PLAN AND GETTING INTO FINAL PLAN COMMENTS.
THEY'VE SUBMITTED A PLAN TO ADDRESS AND THEY'VE BEEN GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH JEN ON ADDRESSING HER COMMENTS THAT THEY HAVE A CLEAN LETTER FROM GILMORE ASSOCIATES.
THEY ALSO ALREADY HAVE PENNDOT APPROVAL FOR THE HOP AND THEY HAVE MONTGOMERY COUNTY CONSERVATION DISTRICT PERMIT N-P-D-E-S PERMIT.
IS THAT CORRECT? SO THEY HAVE ALL OF THEIR PERMITTING LINED UP, BECAUSE I THINK IT IS QUITE CONTROVERSIAL.
THEY'RE GETTING ALL OF THEIR DUCKS IN A ROW, MUCH MORE SO THAN ANY OTHER DEVELOPMENT DOES.
BUT THEY WILL BE IN HERE TO DISCUSS THAT WITH YOU AND CLARIFY ALL OF THAT WITH YOU.
BUT THAT'S JUNE, THAT'S, I'M SORRY, DECEMBER 3RD IF THEY HAVE CLEAN LETTERS.
IF NOT, THEY MAY BE PUSHED TO JANUARY.
UM, I, I DON'T SEE WHY THEY WOULDN'T JUST GO ON JANUARY AND TAKE SOME TIME ANYWAY, BUT THAT'S THEIR CALL.
UM, AGAIN, I, I'M UNDER THE CLOCK WITH THEM, SO I HAVE TO PUT 'EM ON AGENDAS, BUT I HAVE UNTIL JANUARY 31ST NOW.
UM, THEN THE OTHER THING WOULD BE THE 2026 GOALS AND TASKS.
UH, MUCH LIKE WE JUST DID AT THE, AT
[01:55:01]
THE EAC EARLIER, TWO HOURS AGO.I ASSUME YOU WANT TO GET BACK TO, UH, RIDGE PIKE? YEAH, WE WANNA GET BACK TO RIDGE PIKE.
WE HAVE A FORMAL PRESENTATION.
I THINK WE CAN CANCEL THE 17TH.
YOU'LL GET A BIG CHECK FROM ME THIS YEAR.
UM, SO WE'LL, WE'LL GO BACK TO THAT AND WE'LL SORT OF GET BACK ON THAT SWING AGAIN AT THE END OF THE YEAR.
EVERYTHING HAS SORT OF COMPRESSED, SO THAT'S WHY WE'VE SORT OF GOTTEN AWAY FROM THAT.
THIS MEETING SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABOUT THAT.
AND THEN THE SECOND MEETING IN DECEMBER.
BUT AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE LOOKING TO CANCEL THAT MEETING IF YOU WANNA MAKE THAT MOTION NOW.
YEAH, I THINK, UM, UH, SOMEBODY WANNA MAKE THAT MOTION.
JERRY, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE CANCEL THE, UH, DECEMBER 17TH MEETINGS.
JOE, YOU WANNA SECOND THAT? I'LL SECOND IT.
UH, THEN EAC AGAIN, THAT WILL MEET SOMETIME IN 2026, JANUARY, I THINK.
AND THE LAST ITEM OF BUSINESS IS THE, WHICH IS ON HERE, THE 18TH OF DECEMBER.
RIGHT? I THINK I MENTIONED THAT TO EVERYBODY.
JUST WANNA REITERATE THAT, THAT IT'S, THAT'S LOCK 29, CORRECT.
HOW JOE, BY THE WAY, IS THAT, CAN THAT BE ON THE RECORD OR IS THAT OFFICIAL QUESTIONS? UH, IS HE RETIRED OFFICIALLY NOW? JOE IS NOT OFFICIALLY RETIRED YET.
HE'S STILL, UH, HE'S STILL HANDLING AMBULANCE AT THE END OF THE YEAR.
UM, FORTUNATELY HE'S HAD SOME RECENT BACK ISSUES.
SO HE'S, HE'S BEEN LAID UP FOR ABOUT A MONTH, SO WE TO SEE HIM.
YEAH, I BELIEVE JOE IS PLANNING ON BEING AT THE, UH,
SOMETHING ELSE? I HAVE NOTHING ELSE.
I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD MEETING.
ANY COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE? NO.
ALL I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION BOB'S MADE A MOTION ON A SECOND.
I'LL SECOND THAT MEETING ADJOURNED.