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GIVE IT A WRAP ON SOMETHING.[Open Space Referendum Meeting on October 15, 2025.]
GOOD EVENING EVERYONE.THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT TO DISCUSS OPEN SPACE REFERENDA.
I'M KATE RAMEN FROM NATURAL LANDS.
I'VE BEEN WORKING FOR NATURAL LANDS FOR ABOUT SEVEN YEARS NOW, AND WE ARE GONNA HAVE A JAM PACKED AGENDA.
SO WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS QUICKLY THE AGENDA AND PROPOSE RATE INCREASES.
AND THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE THREE SPEAKERS THIS EVENING.
SO WE HAVE CATHERINE RICARDO, THE ASSISTANT TOWNSHIP MANAGER IN EAST WHITE LAND TOWNSHIP, CHESTER COUNTY.
WE ALSO HAVE CRYSTAL GILCREST, THE PROJECT DIRECTOR OF THE PER PROCUREMENT MAPPING AND FLOOD MITIGATION PROJECT.
AND THEN BILL HARTMAN TRAILS AND OPEN SPACE PLANNING MANAGER FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE A QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION.
COMMENTS CAN BE MADE AT THAT TIME IF YOU WOULD LIKE, IF YOU KNOW, THANK YOU.
IF YOU KNOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT OR ASK A QUESTION, PLEASE PUT YOUR NAME ON THE LIST THAT MY COLLEAGUE KYLE HAS IN THE BACK THERE.
UH, HE CAN WALK IT AROUND IF YOU FEEL A QUESTION COMING ON
WE'RE GONNA CALL QUESTIONERS FROM THAT LIST TO COME UP AND ASK THEIR QUESTION OR MAKE THEIR COMMENT.
UH, WE DO, UH, LIMIT, WE'RE GONNA LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF TIME FOR THE QUESTION ASKING JUST SO THAT WE GIVE THE, THE, OUR SPEAKERS THIS EVENING ENOUGH TIME TO RESPOND AND SO THAT AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK A QUESTION.
SO WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING TONIGHT IS WHAT IS GONNA BE ON THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER.
THIS IS THE QUESTION THAT YOU WOULD SEE IN THE VOTING BOOTH.
SO FOR THE PURPOSE OF EXPANDING THE TOWNSHIP TRAIL AND RECREATION SYSTEMS, MITIGATING FLOOD DAMAGE AND PRESERVING CLEAN WATER AND WILDLIFE HABITATS, DO YOU FAVOR THE IMPOSITION OF AN INCREASE IN THE EARNED INCOME TAX AT THE RATE OF SIX 100 OF 1%, AND AN INCREASE IN THE REAL ESTATE TAX AT THE RATE OF 0.50 MILLS? THAT'S 50 CENTS PER $1,000 OF ASSESSED VALUE BY THE UP BY THE TOWNSHIP OF BARBARA PROVIDENCE TO BE USED TO RETIRE INDEBTEDNESS INCURRED IN PURCHASING, INTEREST IN OR ACQUISITION OF REAL PROPERTY FOR NATURAL RESOURCE PROTECTION, OPEN SPACE PRESERVATION AND PUBLIC RECREATION, AND THE EXPENDITURE OF FUNDS FOR ANY PURPOSE RELATING TO THE ACQUISITION PLANNING FOR ACQUISITION PRESERVATION, IMPROVEMENT IN MAINTENANCE OF OPEN SPACE, OR FOR AN OPEN SPACE BENEFIT.
SO WE'RE GONNA BREAK IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT AND SEE WHAT THESE RATE INCREASES MEAN, WHAT THE FUNDS CAN BE USED FOR, ET CETERA.
WE DID INCLUDE A BLENDED RATE INCREASE THAT IS TO BALANCE ACROSS TAXPAYER GROUPS.
UM, RENTERS WOULD PAY RENTERS WITH INCOME, WOULD PAY THE INCREASED EIT, BUT NOT PAY THE PROPERTY TAX.
SENIORS ON FIXED INCOME WOULD ONLY HAVE TO PAY THE INCREASED PROPERTY TAX, NOT THE EIT COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES WOULD HAVE THE INCREASED PROPERTY TAX.
AND THEN, UM, RESIDENTS WHO, UH, COMMUTE TO OTHER MUNICIPALITIES TO WORK WOULD PAY, UH, EITHER THE EIT IN THE PLACE THAT THEY WORK OR, UH, THE LOCAL TOWNSHIP, EIT WHICHEVER IS HIGHER.
SO I'M JUST GONNA GO OVER SOME QUICK WAYS TO USE TO CALCULATE YOUR OWN RATE INCREASE.
UM, SO THE, FOR THE EARNED INCOME TAX, UH, THE MEDIAN EARNED INCOME IN THE TOWNSHIP IS 141,000 PLUS DOLLARS.
YOU WOULD MULTIPLY THAT BY 0.0006, AND YOUR ANNUAL, UH, ESTIMATED ANNUAL TAX INCREASE WOULD BE ABOUT $85.
THEIR REAL ESTATE VALUES ARE BASED ON YOUR APPRAISAL.
WE, UH, LOOKED AT THE AVERAGE, UH, ASSESSED VALUE OF JUST RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES IN THE TOWNSHIP, AND THAT WITHOUT COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES IS ABOUT 190,000.
IF YOU FOLLOW THE CALCULATOR HERE, THAT MEANS EVERY HOUSEHOLD WOULD HAVE AN INCREASE OF ABOUT $63 ANNUALLY.
OKAY, SO WE'VE GONE OVER THE RATES.
WE'RE GONNA TAKE QUESTIONS AT THE END, SO WE'RE NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT THE RATES MORE AT THIS POINT, BUT I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE CATHERINE.
RICARDO, SHE'S THE ASSISTANT TOWNSHIP MANAGER FOR EAST WEYLAND, AND SHE HAS OVER 13 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AS A MANAGER AND ASSISTANT MANAGER IN CHESTER AND DELAWARE COUNTIES, ADMINISTERING SEVERAL OPEN SPACE AND RECREATION PROGRAMS. CATHERINE ALSO HAS A BACHELOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE DEGREE AND A MASTER OF PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION FROM WESTCHESTER UNIVERSITY WHERE SHE LIVES WITH HER HUSBAND AND THREE CHILDREN.
UM, AS KATE MENTIONED, MY NAME'S CATHERINE RICARDO.
I'M THE ASSISTANT TOWNSHIP MANAGER IN EASTLAND TOWNSHIP, AND I WAS ASKED TO COME
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SPEAK TO YOU THIS EVENING TO SHARE EAST WHITELANDS RECENT EXPERIENCE WITH IMPLEMENTING AN OPEN SPACE PROGRAM AND A DEDICATED TEXT.SO JUST TO ORIENT EVERYONE, 'CAUSE CHESTER COUNTY CAN SEE HIM KIND OF FAR AWAY, BUT, UM, EAST WHITELANDS SITUATED JUST SOUTHWEST UP HERE ABOUT 30 MINUTES AWAY.
UM, WE'RE A COMMUNITY OF ABOUT 15,000 RESIDENTS DURING THE DAY.
OUR POPULATION ACTUALLY DOUBLES BECAUSE WE ARE A MAJOR COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR FOR COMPANIES LIKE VANGUARD, ORACLE, AND JOHNSON AND JOHNSON WERE SITUATED RIGHT ON THE 2 0 2 CORRIDOR ROUTE 30 AND 29.
SO A BUSTLING, BUSTLING COMMUNITY, MUCH LIKE THIS ONE.
SO A LITTLE BACKGROUND OF HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE DID EAST WHITE LAND.
UM, OUR PROS PLAN WAS ADOPTED IN 2022.
UM, THAT'S OUR PARK RECREATION AND OPEN SPACE PLAN.
UM, THIS IS WHERE WE IDENTIFIED THE NEED FOR AN OPEN SPACE PROGRAM IN 2023.
THE TOWNSHIP WAS APPROACHED BY A LOCAL LANDOWNER OFFERING TO PRESERVE 52 ACRES OF FARMLAND.
UM, THIS WAS A LOCAL PHILANTHROPIC LANDOWNER AND REALLY FORTUITOUSLY, IT JUST CAME INTO OUR LAPSE AFTER OUR PROPOSED PLAN WAS ADOPTED.
THE PROPOSAL WAS FOR A UNIQUE TRANSACTION WHERE THE TOWNSHIP PURCHASED THE PROPERTY FROM WESTCHESTER UNIVERSITY AND ALL THE PROCEEDS FROM THAT SALE WENT TO SCHOLARSHIP FUNDS FOR UNIVERSITY STUDENTS.
IT WAS A MONUMENTAL EFFORT FOR THE TOWNSHIP, UM, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT TO LOSE THAT OPPORTUNITY THOUGH.
JUST STEPPING BACK FOR A MOMENT, THE TOWNSHIP KICKED OUR OPEN SPACE INITIATIVE INTO HIGH GEAR AND PLACED OUR OPEN SPACE TAX REFERENDUM ON THE BALLOT FOR NOVEMBER, 2024.
SO WHAT WAS OUR PROPOSAL? UM, EAST VIOLENCE PROPOSAL IS ACTUALLY VERY SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT KATE JUST OUTLINED.
IT, UM, CONSIDERED A 0.45 MIL, UH, REAL ESTATE TAX AND A 0.05% EIT.
UM, AS WAS ALREADY SHARED, WE SELECTED THIS APPROACH BECAUSE A REAL ESTATE CENTRIC TAX IS MORE STABLE OVER THE LONG TERM.
UM, IT PROVIDES SUPPORT TO THE PROGRAM OVER TIME AND REDUCES THE, UM, BURDEN ON THOSE ON FIXED INCOMES.
IN EAST WHITELANDS CASE, SINCE WE WERE AT RISK OF LOSING A PROPERTY, WE NEEDED MORE CASH IN THE FIRST YEAR THAN WE WOULD HAVE RAISED WITH THE TAX ALONE.
SO WE ISSUED A BOND FOR $10 MILLION TO COVER THAT INITIAL PURCHASE AND FUTURE ACQUISITIONS.
UM, WE ALSO SUPPLEMENTED THAT WITH, UM, GRANTS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO OBTAIN FROM THE COUNTY AND DCNR.
UM, DON'T MIND MY PIZZA SLIDE UP.
UM, SO WE DID HAVE A LOT OF CHALLENGES THAT WERE SHARED FROM THE PUBLIC.
UM, SO SOME OF THOSE ARE, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THE SMALL TEXT, BUT I'LL GO THROUGH THEM QUICKLY.
THERE'S NO MORE LAND LEFT WAS SOMETHING WE HEARD VERY FREQUENTLY.
UH, LIVING IN A HIGHLY DEVELOPED COMMUNITY LIKE EAST WHITELANDS PRESENTS AN OPTICS CHALLENGE THAT HELP TO HELP PEOPLE SEE WHAT WAS LEFT.
THAT WAS A BIG CHALLENGE THAT WE HAD AS A COMMUNITY.
THE TOWNSHIP UTILIZED ITS OPEN SPACE MAP, AND I THINK I ACTUALLY SAW SOME MAPS IN THE BACK THAT LOOK VERY SIMILAR TO THE ONES THAT WE HAVE.
AND WE SHOWED PROPERTIES THAT COULD BE AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE.
WE ALSO DISCUSSED HOW WE WOULD PRIORITIZE PROPERTIES THAT CLEARLY MET THE OPEN SPACE AND RECREATION NEEDS THE COMMUNITY HAD PREVIOUSLY IDENTIFIED IN THE PROS PLAN, ANOTHER CHALLENGE WE FACED WAS WE'RE DOUBLING TAXES.
WE DID
UM, BUT OUR MILLAGE RATE IN EAST WHITE LAND IS VERY LOW BECAUSE WE HAVE AN EIT AS WELL.
SO THE AVERAGE RESIDENTIAL TAX BILL IS ABOUT $75 A YEAR.
AND WE ALL, WE ARE ALSO A FULL SERVICE, UM, MUNICIPALITY JUST LIKE THIS ONE.
WE HAVE PAID FIRE, WE HAVE PAID POLICE.
WE OFFER ALL OF THOSE SERVICES TO OUR RESIDENTS AND WE'RE REALLY PROUD TO SAY THAT THIS IS WHAT OUR TAX BILLS ARE.
SO, UH, WE TRY TO DRAW OUT THE EXAMPLE OF HOW THIS WOULD IMPACT THE INDIVIDUAL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNER BY SAYING THAT WHILE WE'RE DOUBLING THEM, IT'S ESSENTIALLY THE COST OF A FEW EXTRA PIZZAS PER YEAR SO THAT PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOUR PERSONAL IMPACTS ARE.
UM, AND IT'S ALSO WORTH NOTING THAT ALTHOUGH WE'RE IN CHESTER COUNTY, I THINK MONTGOMERY COUNTY MAY HAVE DONE SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR.
THERE'S A STUDY THAT THE COUNTY HAD DONE THAT BASICALLY SHOWS THAT THE COST OF A PROPERTY OVER TIME THAT'S DEVELOPED IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE TO THE MUNICIPALITY THAN IS PRESERVING IT FOR OPEN SPACE.
IT'S APPROXIMATELY A DOLLAR AND 11 CENTS FOR EVERY, UH, FOR A DEVELOPED PIECE OF PROPERTY.
AND THIS TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION THINGS LIKE WATER,
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SEWER, POLICE, FIRE, ALL THOSE THINGS THAT GO INTO WHEN YOU BUILD EITHER A SUBDIVISION OR A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY VERSUS WHEN A MUNICIPALITY CHOOSES TO PRESERVE A PIECE OF PROPERTY FOR OPEN SPACE IS ABOUT 7 CENTS ON THAT SAME DOLLAR.SO A VERY SIGNIFICANT SAVINGS TO THE COMMUNITY OVER TIME.
UM, WHO, OH, I THINK I, SORRY.
THERE'S, THERE'S SOMETHING MISSING FROM HERE, BUT I'M GONNA MENTION IT ANYWAY.
UM, AND IT'S THIS PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY PORTION.
UM, WHO WILL DECIDE HOW THE MONEY IS SPENT? I GAVE THIS ITS OWN SLIDE BECAUSE I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO MENTION THE IMPORTANCE OF THE OPEN SPACE COMMITTEE.
UM, NOT ONLY DOES PENNSYLVANIA LAW REQUIRE A REVIEW COMMITTEE, WHEN A MUNICIPALITY PUTS IN PLACE A DEDICATED OPEN SPACE TAX, UM, WE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED PEOPLE WHO WERE VERY CONCERNED THAT WE MIGHT BE MAKING DECISIONS AS A MUNICIPALITY BEHIND CLOSED DOORS OR NOT TRANSPARENTLY TO COME OUT.
AND IF YOU HADN'T BEEN INVOLVED IN THE COMMUNITY BEFORE TO GET INVOLVED IN THE OPEN SPACE COMMITTEE.
UM, SO THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE AMY SLE NOW.
WE HAVE A MEMBER FROM OUR ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL, A MEMBER FROM OUR PLANNING COMMISSION, A MEMBER FOR OUR PARKS AND RECREATION BOARD, AND THEN FOUR ADDITIONAL AT LARGE MEMBERS FROM THE COMMUNITY.
AND THESE WERE ALL BRAND NEW FOLKS WHO HAD NOT OTHERWISE BEEN, UM, INVOLVED IN THE TOWNSHIP BEFORE, WHICH WAS AMAZING TO SEE NEW PEOPLE 'CAUSE WE'RE SO USED TO SEEING WHAT THEY CALL THE SAME 10 PEOPLE SO MANY TIMES IN MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT.
SO IT WAS GREAT TO SEE MORE PEOPLE GET INVOLVED.
SO WHAT'S, UM, OUR FIRST YEAR EXPERIENCE BEEN LIKE? INTEREST GREW REALLY QUICKLY.
ONCE THE TOWNSHIP SHOWED ITS COMMITMENT, UM, TO PEOPLE, DEVELOPERS, YOU NAME IT, THEY KNEW WE WERE SERIOUS AND THAT WE HAD MONEY TO SPEND TO PRESERVE OPEN SPACE.
OR AT THE VERY LEAST, YOU'LL HEAR MORE ABOUT OPPORTUNITIES BEFORE YOU LOSE 'EM.
UM, SINCE OUR INITIAL PURCHASE, THE TOWNSHIP IS IN THE PROCESS OF NEGOTIATING TRANSACTIONS WITH TWO OTHER PROPERTY OWNERS.
THERE'S ALSO MORE LAND THAN YOU THINK OUT THERE.
ONCE YOU LOOK MORE CLOSELY THROUGH, UM, TOWNSHIP STAFF AND FROM AN OPEN SPACE COMMITTEE PERSPECTIVE.
'CAUSE THOSE ARE THEIR PRIMARY FUNCTIONS, YOU'LL FIND THAT THERE'S MORE PROPERTIES OUT THERE OF HIGH INTRINSIC VALUE TO THE TOWNSHIP.
THIS INCLUDES PROPERTIES THAT MIGHT NOT MEET THE TRADITIONAL DEFINITION OF RECREATION USE.
UM, THERE'S A PROPERTY THAT WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF NEGOTIATING ON RIGHT NOW THAT IS JUST SERVING AS A BUFFER AREA BETWEEN A RESIDENTIAL AREA AND ROUTE 2 0 2.
AND SO OUR OPEN SPACE COMMITTEE WORKING WITH THIS COMMUNITY FOUND THAT THIS IS SOMETHING OF VALUE TO THE TOWNSHIP.
SO WE HAVE TO SORT OF THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX THAT THIS DOESN'T JUST LOOK LIKE PARKLANDS OR PLAY BALL FIELDS OR, UM, ANYTHING LIKE THAT CAN ALSO LOOK LIKE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS OR CONSERVATION EASEMENTS.
THERE'S REALLY AN ENDLESS LIST OF OPPORTUNITIES HERE.
UM, AND FINALLY, AND I PUT THIS LAST ON HERE 'CAUSE I THINK IT'S SO IMPORTANT, IS OUR COMMITTEE'S IMPACT.
UM, OUR OPEN SPACE COMMITTEE HAS LOGGED DOZENS OF VOLUNTEER HOURS SO FAR.
UH, THOSE MEMBERS HAVE DIVERSE OPINIONS.
SOME OF THEM HAVE BEEN VERY HONEST AND SAID THEY DIDN'T VOTE FOR IT, AND THEY WANTED TO BE ON THE COMMITTEE SO THAT THEY COULD INFLUENCE WHERE THE TOWNSHIP WAS GOING.
AND WE SAID, THAT'S GREAT
UM, AND OUR BOARD OF SUPERVISORS RELIES HEAVILY ON OUR OPEN SPACE COMMITTEE'S, EVALUATIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS TO FULLY EVALUATE ANY PROPOSALS BEFORE THEY MOVE FORWARD.
AND THAT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT PUBLIC PROCESS WITH LOTS OF MEETINGS THAT ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC WITH LOTS OF PUBLIC VOTES.
SO THERE ARE NO BEHIND CLOSED DOORS DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE.
IT'S ALL SEVERAL SERIES OF VOTES THAT TAKE PLACE WITH THIS COMMITTEE.
SO I THANK YOU FOR, UM, THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME AND SHARE EAST WHITELANDS EXPERIENCE.
AND I'LL BE HERE AND HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
AND I'LL GIVE IT BACK OVER TO KATE.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE CRYSTAL GILCREST, OUR NEXT SPEAKER.
CRYSTAL IS THE PROJECT DIRECTOR OF THE PERM AND MAPPING AND FLOOD MITIGATION PROJECT FOR REPRESENTATIVE JOE WEBSTER.
SHE, CRYSTAL HAS OVER 30 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AS A PLANNER AND AS A TRAFFIC ENGINEER IN SOUTHEASTERN PA.
UH, HER ROLES AND EXPERIENCE INCLUDE, UH, WORKING AS A TRANSPORTATION PLANNER FOR BOTH BUCKS AND MONTGOMERY COUNTIES, A TRANSPORTATION ENGINEER FOR PONE ASSOCIATES.
SHE'S, UH, BEEN THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT FOR LOWER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY,
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THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE PERM AND WATERSHED CONSERVANCY, THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROJECT MANAGER FOR STELLE ASSOCIATES.CRYSTAL HAS A BACHELOR'S DEGREE IN GEOGRAPHY FOR PENN STATE UNIVERSITY AND A A MASTER'S IN TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERING FROM VILLANOVA.
SHE CURRENTLY LIVES IN LOWER FREDERICK, UM, AMID THE PRESERVED SPACES OF STONEHILL AND HAS TWO SONS, THREE GRANDCHILDREN, AND A GREAT GRANDDAUGHTER.
TAKE IT AWAY CRYSTAL, REAL QUICK.
IS THIS
I THINK YOU JUST TURNED IT OFF THOUGH.
CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? YEAH, BECAUSE I CAN GO TO THE OTHER MIC.
UM, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF SPECIFICS TO ADD TO WHAT KATIE HAS ALREADY TALKED ABOUT IN TERMS OF THEIR EXPERIENCE IN, IN, UM, IN CHESTER COUNTY IN LOWER FREDERICK, WE ENACTED A, UH, EARNED INCOME TAX INCREASE SEVERAL YEARS AGO.
UH, IT WAS A CONTENTIOUS ISSUE THERE AS WELL.
'CAUSE EVERYBODY SEES ANY INCREASE AS A TAX REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU'RE GONNA, UH, PUT IT TOWARDS.
UM, SO MY COMMENTS TONIGHT BASICALLY ARE GENERALLY ABOUT OPEN SPACE AND, UM, THE VALUE OF THAT AND THE COSTS OF THAT VERSUS DEVELOPMENT.
WE'VE ALL HEARD, AND I'M SURE YOU'RE ALL AWARE, THAT, YOU KNOW, LANDOWNERS HAVE A WHOLE BUNDLE OF RIGHTS.
YOU CAN'T JUST SAY NO, YOU CAN'T DEVELOP THAT.
YOU MUST ALLOW THE PROPERTY OWNER, UH, SOME RETURN ON THEIR INVESTMENT FOR THE LAND.
SO WHEN A PROPERTY COMES UP FOR DEVELOPMENT, SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SOMEBODY BOUGHT IT, NOW THEY WANNA DEVELOP IT.
UH, IT'S TOO LATE AT THAT POINT TO TRY TO PRESERVE THAT LAND.
YOU HAVE TO BE AHEAD OF, UH, THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY IN ORDER TO PRESERVE OPEN SPACE.
AND WHY DO WE VALUE OPEN SPACE? ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE LIKE ABOUT OPEN SPACE THAT WE WANT TO PRESERVE, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF REASONS AND THEY'RE VERY VARIED.
UH, FIRST OF ALL, WE JUST FIND IT VISUALLY PLEASING TO SEE GREEN OPEN SPACES IN OUR COMMUNITY.
IT HELPS DEFINE THE TYPE OF COMMUNITY THAT WE WANT TO BE AND THAT WE WANNA BE IN THE FUTURE.
UM, IT FEELS GOOD TO BE AMONG, UM, GREEN SPACES.
UM, OUTDOOR OR OPEN SPACE BRINGS RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR HIKING OR BIKING OR, UH, JUST BIRDING OR JUST, AGAIN, JUST BEING OUT IN GREEN SPACE.
SO THAT RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITY IS A HUGE, UM, ELEMENT FROM THE COMMUNITY.
BUT ASIDE FROM ALL THOSE THINGS, THERE ARE THE ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS OF OPEN SPACE THAT WE OFTEN LOSE TRACK OF BECAUSE THEY'RE INVISIBLE.
UH, WE DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM.
WE DON'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THEM.
THEY JUST HAPPEN NATURALLY IN THE NATURAL WORLD.
AND, UM, THESE ARE THINGS LIKE CLEAN AIR, CLEAN WATER, THE HEALTH OF OUR SOIL, WHICH IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO ALL THE ELEMENTS, UM, IN OUR COMMUNITY, WHETHER IT'S GROWING FOOD OR GROWING, UH, OTHER PLANTS OR JUST HAVING A HEALTHY ENVIRONMENT.
THE HABITATS FOR THE ANIMALS THAT WERE HERE LONG BEFORE WE WERE ALL HERE, UH, AND ARE GONNA BE HERE SOMEPLACE.
THEY NEED HABITATS TO BE SOMEPLACE WE CAN'T GET RID OF ALL THE ANIMALS.
AND THAT'S NOT JUST BIG ANIMALS LIKE THE DEER AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS THAT WE SEE, BUT THE SMALLEST LITTLE CRITTERS THAT LIVE AGAIN IN THE SOIL, THE MICROBES AND THE, THE INSECTS.
ALL THOSE CREATURES NEED A PLACE TO DO THEIR NATURAL THING.
AND THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT IS WHERE THAT HAPPENS.
GREEN SPACES HELP MODERATE THE TEMPERATURE INCREASES THAT WE SEE IN THE SUMMERTIME WHEN THE, WHEN THE TEMPERATURE GOES UP TO NEARLY A HUNDRED DEGREES, IT'S MUCH COOLER IN PLACES WHERE YOU HAVE LOTS OF TREES THAN IT IS WHERE YOU HAVE LOTS OF CONCRETE.
UM, AND THE PROJECT I'M WORKING ON RIGHT NOW IS THE STORMWATER, UH, PROJECT FOR THE ENTIRE PERMA WATERSHED.
AND YOU GUYS ARE PART OF THAT SMALL PART OF IT, CLEAR AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FUNNEL.
BUT, UH, YOU ARE A PART OF THE PERMA WATERSHED.
UM, STORM WATER MITIGATION TAKES PLACE BEST ON OPEN UNDISTURBED LANDS.
UH, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO, UH, MIMIC NATURE'S APPROACH TO STORM WATER MANAGEMENT THAT GOES THE SAME FOR GROUND WATER RECHARGE.
AND WE ALL GET OUR WATER FROM SOMEPLACE TURN ON THE TAP OUT IT COMES, IT'S EITHER COMING FROM A WELL OR A RESERVOIR OR A PIPE THAT'S BEEN SENT FROM SOMEPLACE ELSE, BUT ALL THAT WATER COMES OUT OF THE GROUND AT SOME POINT.
UH, AND IF WE DON'T PUT WATER BACK INTO THE GROUND, WE'RE GONNA SOMEDAY RUN OUT.
AND IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR, NATIONAL GEOGRAPHY AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, UH, THE OGALLALA AQUIFER IN THE MIDWEST, YOU MAY HAVE HEARD THAT TERM BEFORE, UM, HUGE FARMING COMMUNITIES IN THE MIDWEST, AND THEY HAVE BEEN IRRIGATING IN A DRY CLIMATE FOR A CENTURY OR MORE.
UH, AND NOW THEY'RE RUNNING OUT OF WATER BECAUSE THEY HAVE DRAINED THE AQUIFER AND THEY'RE NOT ALLOWING ENOUGH WATER TO GO BACK IN.
SO GROUNDWATER RECHARGE IS A HUGE, UH, PART OF WHY WE NEED OPEN SPACE.
AND NONE OF THESE BENEFITS ARE RECREATED EASILY BY WE HUMANS.
SOME OF IT WE DO RECREATE, WE CLEAN OUR WATER AFTER WE USE IT, AND THOSE ARE THE SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANTS.
BUT THAT WATER GOES BACK INTO THE
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SYSTEM BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE BACK INTO THE SYSTEM.BUT ALL THESE THINGS COST MONEY TO RECREATE, UH, IF WE DON'T HAVE NATURAL OPEN SPACES TO HANDLE THOSE THINGS.
AND LIKE KATE SAID, THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS STUDIES, NOT JUST HERE IN, UH, SOUTHEASTERN PENNSYLVANIA, BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY, UH, COMPARING THE COST OF LONG-TERM COST OF DEVELOPMENT VERSUS LONG-TERM COST OF OPEN SPACE.
AND ACROSS THE BOARD IT COMES IN, THAT DEVELOPMENT COSTS YOU MORE AS A COMMUNITY THAN, UH, THE COST OF THE OPEN SPACE WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU FORGOT TO LIST WERE SCHOOLS,
ALL THOSE TYPES OF THINGS HAVE TO BE RECREATED, UH, AT A COST TO THE COMMUNITY FOR NOT JUST INSTALLATION, BUT FOR MAINTENANCE, LONG-TERM MAINTENANCE.
SO, UM, THE BALANCING OF THOSE COSTS IS REALLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE TONIGHT.
SO AS A COMMUNITY, YOU HAVE TO DECIDE, ARE WE GOING TO ABSORB THE COSTS OF ALLOWING ALL OF OUR OPEN SPACE TO BE DEVELOPED AND THE COSTS THAT COME WITH THAT? WE'LL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT IN THE FUTURE IF IT HAPPENS, OR ARE WE GONNA BE PROACTIVE IN TERMS OF PROTECTING THOSE SPACES AND KEEPING THEM GREEN AND OPEN IN THEIR NATURAL STATE IN THE HOPES THAT, UH, THEY OFFSET SOME OF THE OTHER COSTS THAT WE HAVE IN OUR COMMUNITY FROM THE DEVELOPMENT.
IT'S A PAY NOW OR PAY LATER SCENARIO.
SOONER OR LATER, THOSE COSTS COME DUE.
UH, AND WE'RE SEEING THAT IN THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT, UH, ISSUES THAT WE'VE HAD SINCE HURRICANE IDA.
UM, LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE WATERSHED, ONE OF THE MAIN RECOMMENDATIONS THAT'S COME OUT OF THE ANALYSIS IS UPSTREAM VOLUME CONTROL.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT MEANS NOT SHUNTING ALL OF OUR STORM WATER INTO A PIPE RIGHT AWAY AND SHOVING IT INTO A CREEK.
IT MEANS ALLOWING THAT STORM WATER TO REST ON THE LAND SOMEPLACE LONG ENOUGH TO ABSORB INTO THE SOIL TO BE TAKEN UP BY THE TREES AND THE VEGETATION, AND KEEPING THAT VOLUME IN PLACE RATHER THAN PUSHING IT DOWNSTREAM.
NOW, YOU FOLKS ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FUNNEL HERE, THEN THE PER PROCUREMENT WATERSHED IS A FUNNEL.
EVERYTHING COMES TOGETHER RIGHT AROUND SCHWANKS FILL.
AND FROM THERE ONDALE, IT'S GANGBUSTERS WHEN IT REALLY RAINS.
AND YOU ALL KNOW THAT, UM, WE WILL BE WORKING WITH ALL 55 MUNICIPALITIES IN THIS WATERSHED TO ADDRESS THAT UPSTREAM VOLUME CONTROL ISSUE, WHICH MEANS THAT WE WILL BE TALKING TO COMMUNITIES LIKE YOURS, LARGE AND SMALL, UM, WITH ROBUST TAX BASES AND WITH LESS ROBUST TAX BASES, UM, ABOUT HOW TO KEEP OPEN SPACE OPEN AND HOW TO ALLOW PARTICULARLY STORM WATER TO ABSORB INTO THE GROUND WHERE IT LANDS RATHER THAN, UH, PUSHING IT DOWNSTREAM WHERE WE DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO HANDLE IT.
SO BASICALLY THAT'S MY MESSAGE.
THESE ARE DECISIONS THAT YOU HAVE TO COME TO, TO, TO GRIPS WITH.
EITHER YOU'RE GONNA PAY FOR THE COST OF PRESERVING THAT OPEN SPACE NOW AND THE HOPES THAT THOSE BENEFITS OF GREEN SPACE WILL CONTINUE TO ACCRUE TO YOUR COMMUNITY WELL INTO THE FUTURE, OR YOU WILL NOT PROTECT THOSE OPEN SPACES.
AND THEY WILL EVENTUALLY GET DEVELOPED BECAUSE THEY WILL EVENTUALLY GET DEVELOPED.
THAT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS GO.
UH, AND YOU WILL HAVE THE COSTS OF THOSE DEVELOPMENTS TO DEAL WITH IN THE FUTURE.
ONE, IF YOU DON'T PRESERVE THE OPEN SPACE.
SO ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE FUTURE COSTS.
THE QUESTION IS, WHICH COSTS DO YOU WANT TO INCUR? AND THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT'S IN YOUR MUNICIPALITY RIGHT NOW.
AND THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE TO SAY.
OUR LAST SPEAKER FOR THE EVENING IS BILL HARTMAN.
UH, BILL IS A LICENSED LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT AND SERVES AS THE TRAILS AND OPEN SPACE PLANNING MANAGER AT THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION.
SO HE IS CHARGED WITH EXPANDING MONTGOMERY COUNTY'S MULTI-USE TRAIL NETWORK AND PROTECTING VULNERABLE OPEN SPACE.
UH, HE'S WORKING WITH THE COUNTY 62 MUNICIPALITIES AND VARIOUS CONSERVATION ORGANIZATIONS.
UH, PRIOR TO WORKING FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY, BILL'S WORK INCLUDED THE DIRECTOR OF STEWARDSHIP AT THE WILLIS TOWN CONSERVATION TRUST, AND AS A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT AND PLANNER FOR WRT DESIGN IN PHILADELPHIA.
AND FOR CALTRANS IN SAN FRANCISCO.
BILL HAS A BA IN BIOLOGY FROM KENYON COLLEGE AND A MASTER OF LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTURE FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA.
SO I'M GONNA GRAB A COUPLE OF PROPS HERE BEFORE I START AND JUST PASS THESE AROUND.
[00:25:01]
YOU, IF YOU COULD JUST PASS IT THROUGH THE CROWD.THIS IS WHAT I'LL BE TALKING ABOUT FOR THE NEXT 15 OR 20 MINUTES.
SO CRYSTAL AND CATHERINE SET ME UP WELL BECAUSE, UH, CATHERINE MENTIONED A STUDY THAT TALKED ABOUT, UH, SORT OF THE, THE ECONOMICS OF OPEN SPACE WHEN YOU DEVELOP IT VERSUS WHEN YOU DON'T DEVELOP IT.
AND THEN CRYSTAL WAS TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THE QUALITATIVE BENEFITS OF OPEN SPACE, WHICH I THINK WE ALL KNOW ABOUT.
THE MENTAL RESPITE CAN PROVIDE THE AESTHETICS, THE WILDLIFE VALUE, AND SO ON.
WHAT I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT IS THE ECONOMIC VALUE OF OPEN SPACE.
AND, UM, LET ME PREFACE IT, MY DISCUSSION FIRST BY SAYING I'M NOT AN ECONOMIST, AS KATE MADE CLEAR, WHICH YOU READ MY BIO, BUT WE HAD A CONSULTANT, UH, HELP THE COUNTY, HELP MONTGOMERY COUNTY PUT THIS STUDY TOGETHER.
AND, UH, HE AND HIS TEAM WERE ECONOMISTS, AND THEY TOOK A LOOK AT THE ECONOMICS OF PRESERVING OPEN SPACE AND PUT THIS, UH, REALLY WORTHWHILE AND SUBSTANTIVE REPORT TOGETHER FOR US, WHICH IS CALLED RETURN ON ENVIRONMENT.
SO WHAT IS A RETURN ON ENVIRONMENT STUDY? WELL, IT'S BASICALLY A REPORT THAT QUANTIFIES THE ECONOMIC VALUE OF PROTECTING LAND THAT'S IN ITS MOST BASIC FORM.
UM, THIS, WHEN THIS WAS ORIGINALLY, UH, WHEN THE FIRST RETURN ON ENVIRONMENT STUDY WAS, UH, PRODUCED IN 2011, IT WAS REALLY A LANDMARK EVENT.
IT WAS THE FIRST TIME SOMEONE HAD TAKEN EVERY, AS I SAID BEFORE, EVERYONE KNOWS THE QUALITATIVE BENEFITS OF OPEN SPACE, BUT NO ONE HAD REALLY TAKEN A HARD LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE ECONOMICS OF PRESERVING LAND.
SO THAT 2011 STUDY WAS DONE FOR A NUMBER OF COUNTIES, THE COLLAR COUNTIES AROUND, UH, PHILADELPHIA OVER, UH, 10 YEARS AGO.
AND THEN IN 2019, CHESTER COUNTY, UH, WENT OUT AND DID THEIR OWN RETURN ON ENVIRONMENT STUDY THAT JUST FOCUSED ON CHESTER COUNTY AS OPPOSED TO THAT LARGER REGION.
AND SO THAT EFFORT BY CHESTER COUNTY IN 2019 MOTIVATED, UH, MONTGOMERY COUNTY AND DELAWARE COUNTY TO WORK WITH THE DELAWARE VALLEY REGIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION TO CONDUCT SIMILAR RETURN ON ENVIRONMENT STUDIES FOR OUR COUNTY AS WELL.
SO IN 2021, WE HIRED ECONSULT SOLUTIONS, WHICH IS THE ECONOMIC FIRM AND TEAM THAT I WAS JUST, UH, REFERRING TO, TO PUT TOGETHER A RETURN ON ENVIRONMENT STUDY FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
AND DELAWARE COUNTY DID THE SAME THING.
D-V-R-P-C MANAGED THE PROCESS, BUT THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF, INCLUDING MYSELF, SUPPORTED THEM IN THAT EFFORT.
WE HELPED THEM WRITE PARTS OF THE REPORT.
WE HAD A 32 MEMBER ADVISORY COMMITTEE WITH PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
WE PROVIDED PHOTOGRAPHS AND CASE STUDIES, AND THOSE ARE ALL INCLUDED IN THAT REPORT, UH, THAT'S CIRCULATING AROUND, UH, THE ROOM RIGHT NOW.
AND WE COMPLETED THAT STUDY IN 2022 WITH THE FILE REPORT THAT YOU'LL SEE, AS WELL AS A SUMMARY BROCHURE, WHICH I ALSO HAVE A FEW COPIES OF IF YOU WANNA LOOK AT THAT AFTERWARDS.
THE, THE FULL REPORT'S A LITTLE THICK.
UM, IT'S VERY READABLE, BUT IF YOU WANT SORT OF LIKE A A FIVE MINUTE OVERVIEW OF WHAT CAME OUT OF THE BIGGER STUDY, THE SUMMARY BROCHURE IS THE WAY TO GO AND, AND THE THING TO LOOK AT.
SO WHY DON'T I JUST JUMP INTO THE GUTS OF THE STUDY RIGHT NOW.
UM, BASICALLY, WELL, WHAT I WANNA DO FIRST ACTUALLY IS TALK ABOUT OPEN SPACE, UH, WITHIN MONTGOMERY COUNTY IN GENERAL.
SO, UM, RIGHT NOW THERE ARE ABOUT 46,000 ACRES OF PROTECTED OPEN SPACE IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
AND WHEN I SAY PROTECTED, THAT MEANS THAT IT CAN'T BE DEVELOPED, WHETHER IT'S COVERED BY A CONSERVATION EASEMENT OR WHETHER IT'S GOT A DEED RESTRICTION ON IT, UM, OR IT'S OWNED AND, UM, WILL NEVER BE DEVELOPED.
THERE ARE ABOUT 46,000 ACRES ACROSS THE COUNTY THAT COULD, AND IT FALLS INTO ROUGHLY SIX OR SEVEN CATEGORIES OF OWNERSHIP, WHICH YOU CAN SEE ON THIS SLIDE.
SO THERE'S LAND THAT'S OWNED BY THE COUNTY.
THE, UH, MOST OBVIOUS EXAMPLE BEING VALLEY FORGED NATIONAL HISTORIC PARK, LAND TRUSTS OWNED LAND AND FEE MUNICIPALITIES LIKE A PROVIDENCE, UH, OWNED LAND, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE PRIVATE AGRICULTURAL EASEMENTS THAT COVER FARMLAND TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY REMAIN AS FARMLAND.
THERE ARE PRIVATE CONSERVATION EASEMENTS THAT ORGANIZATIONS LIKE NATURAL LANDS HOLDS, AND THEN OF COURSE THEIR STATE LAND.
BUT AS YOU'LL SEE FROM THIS SLIDE, THE BULK OF THE, OR THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE OF LAND IS PROTECTED AND HELD BY MUNICIPALITIES LIKE YOUR OWN.
SO THE 62 MUNICIPALITIES, BOROUGHS, AND TOWNSHIPS AROUND MONTGOMERY COUNTY HOLD MOST OF THE PROTECTED OPEN SPACE AS A SINGLE ENTITY.
BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT IT'S SPREAD OUT ACROSS THESE, THESE VARIOUS CATEGORIES OF OWNERSHIP.
THIS IS A MAP THAT I DO NOT EXPECT YOU TO READ, UH, GIVEN THE LIGHTING ON THE SCREEN AND THE DISTANCE THAT YOU ARE FROM IT.
BUT I GUESS WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT THIS IS A MAP OF THAT PROTECTED OPEN SPACE IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY,
[00:30:01]
UM, THAT I WAS THE 46 SUCCESS ACRES THAT I JUST REFERENCED.UM, THE, I GUESS THE THING I WOULD SAY ABOUT IT IS YOU CAN SEE THAT WELL, WHETHER YOU CAN OR YOU CAN'T, BUT I'LL TELL YOU, THE BULK OF THE PROTECTED OPEN SPACE IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY IS IN THE WESTERN HALF TO ONE THIRD OF THE COUNTY.
YOU CAN SEE THAT SORT OF BAY STRIKE THAT GOES RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THE COUNTY.
IT'S REALLY FROM THERE WEST WHERE THE MAJORITY OF LAND IS CURRENTLY PROTECTED.
AND YOU CAN SEE THAT GREEN RIBBON THAT RUNS OFF THE BOTTOM OF EVANSBURG STATE PARK THAT GOES UP IN THE UPPER LEFT HAND CORNER THAT'S REALLY FOLLOWING THE PER AND CREEK.
IT GOES UP TO GREEN LANE PARK IN THE UPPER NORTHWESTERN PART OF THE COUNTY.
AND THEN IF YOU COME DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT, YOU CAN SEE THAT BLUE POLYGON AT THE BOTTOM, AND THAT'S VALLEY FORGE NATIONAL PARK.
SO THAT GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF HOW THE OPEN SPACE IS DISTRIBUTED ACROSS THE COUNTY.
SO IN TERMS OF THE RETURN ON ENVIRONMENT STUDY, IT REALLY ASSESSED THE VALUE OF OPEN SPACE IN FOUR AREAS, WHICH ARE LISTED ON THIS SLIDE, HOUSING VALUES, ECONOMIC VALUE THAT IT GENERATES, THE ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES THAT OPEN SPACE PROVIDES, AND THE DIRECT USE BENEFITS THAT IT ALSO, UH, PROVIDES.
AND I'M GONNA GO THROUGH ALL FOUR OF THESE ON SORT OF A VERY HIGH LEVEL BASIS, BUT JUST A LITTLE BIT OF A SPOILER ALERT THAT THE REPORT DOES SHOW THAT PROTECTED OPEN SPACE PROVIDES SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC VALUE ACROSS MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
AND THE OTHER RETURN ON ENVIRONMENT STUDIES THAT WERE PERFORMED BY THE CHESTER COUNTIES, UH, ALSO SHOW THE SAME, UH, OUTCOME AS WELL.
AND THAT BENEFIT, THOSE BENEFITS COME, UH, UH, TRICKLE DOWN TO MANY DIFFERENT SOURCES.
BUT IT, YOU KNOW, PERSONALLY, PEOPLE BENEFIT ECONOMICALLY FROM PROTECTED OPEN SPACE.
UM, HOUSEHOLDS DO GOVERNMENTS, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DO BUSINESSES DO, THE COMMERCIAL WORLD DOES.
SO IT IT, IT REALLY AFFECTS A VERY BROAD SPECTRUM OF ENTITIES ACROSS THE COUNTY.
SO LET'S JUMP INTO HOME AND PROPERTY VALUES.
SO THIS SECTION ASSESS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A HOUSE'S PROXIMITY TO OPEN SPACE AND THE IMPACT ON THE VALUE OF THAT HOUSING.
UM, THIS IS WHERE I'M GOING OUT OF MY COMFORT ZONE A LITTLE BIT, BUT THE STUDY DID USE A HEDONIC REGRESSION ANALYSIS FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DID TAKE ECON IN COLLEGE OR SINCE THEN.
BUT IT BASICALLY ISOLATED ALL THE FACTORS OTHER THAN THE IMPACT OF THAT OPEN SPACE ON, UH, THE VALUE OF THAT HOUSE.
IT'S THE WAY YOU DO ECONOMIC ANALYSIS TO LOOK AT THE IMPACT OF ONE SINGLE FACTOR.
AND IT FOUND THAT OPEN SPACE GENERATES A PREMIUM FOR HOUSING VALUES.
AND LOOKING AT THIS SLIDE, WHAT IT DID IS IT LOOKED AT THE, THE VALUE ADDED FOR, UH, HOMES WITHIN HALF A QUARTER OF A MILE AND HALF A MILE OF PROTECTED OPEN SPACE.
THAT'S THE, THE BULLSEYE SHAPE ON THE LEFT HAND SLIDE SIDE OF THE SLIDE.
AND JUST AS SORT OF AN INTERESTING, UH, FEATURE THAT CAME OUT OF THE STUDY IS THAT ABOUT 92% OF THE HOMES IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY ARE WITHIN HALF A MILE OF OPEN SPACE, WHICH I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT THAT SURPRISED ME.
IT IT DOESN'T, THAT'S A VERY HIGH NUMBER.
BUT REMEMBER, A PIECE OF OPEN SPACE CAN JUST BE A SMALL POCKET PARK.
IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE A VALLEY FORGE OF THE WORLD.
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THAT OPEN SPACE PROVIDES BENEFIT NO MATTER THE SIZE, WHAT THE SIZE OF IT IS.
BUT THE VAST, VAST MAJORITY OF HOMES IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY ARE RELATIVELY CLOSE TO OPEN SPACE.
SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN IN TERMS OF NUMBERS? WELL, IF YOU CAN'T READ THAT, UM, HOPEFULLY YOU CAN, WHAT I'LL, WHAT I'LL TELL YOU, UH, WHAT IT DOES IS THAT, UH, FOR HOMES WITHIN, WELL, HOMES WITHIN HALF A MILE OF PROTECTED OPEN SPACE, IT ADDS ABOUT $2.8 BILLION TO THE COUNTY'S HOUSING VALUES, WHICH EQUATES TO ABOUT $11,300 PER HOUSE.
IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOUR HOUSE IS WITHIN HALF A MILE OF PROTECTED OPEN SPACE, THERE'S A PREMIUM OF, I THINK IT EQUATES TO ABOUT 3% OR 11, JUST OVER $11,000 OF VALUE ADDED TO YOUR HOUSE BECAUSE IT'S PROXIMATE TO PROTECTED OPEN SPACE.
AND THEN OF COURSE, WHEN THE VALUE OF HOUSES GO UP, THE TAX REVENUES THAT ARE GENERATED BY THOSE HOUSES AND THE ASSESSED VALUE OF THOSE HOUSES ALSO GOES UP.
SO BASED ON THE PROXIMITY OF THOSE HOUSES, THE INCREASED VALUE THAT WERE, UH, COMES FROM IT BY BEING CLOSE TO OPEN SPACE, GENERATES ABOUT $48 MILLION IN ADDITIONAL TAX REVENUE TO THE COUNTY EVERY YEAR.
THE SECOND CATEGORY, THIS ASSESSED THE IMPACT OF PROTECT, PROTECTED OPEN SPACE ON ECONOMIC ACTIVITY IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
AND IT FOUND, UH, GENERALLY SPEAKING, THAT OPEN SPACE AND FARMLAND THAT'S PROTECTED GENERATES JOBS AND IT ATTRACTS PEOPLE TO SPEND THEIR MONEY IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
WHETHER YOU LIVE HERE OR YOU VISIT HERE BECAUSE PEOPLE DO BOTH.
SO IN TERMS OF THE CATEGORIES OF IMPACT,
[00:35:01]
WE, THE STUDY LOOKED AT THE IMPACT OF PROTECTED FARMLAND ON THE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY WITHIN THE COUNTY.IT LOOKED AT THE IMPACT OF PROTECTED OPEN SPACE, MEANING PROTECTED LAND OTHER THAN PROTECTED FARMLAND AND WHAT ITS IMPACT ON ECONOMIC ACTIVITY IS AND WAS, AND WHAT THE IMPACT OF OPEN SPACE RELATED TOURISM IS.
AND THAT MEANS FOR SOMEONE WHO LIVES HERE OR WHO'S VISITING HERE, IF THEY'RE WALKING ON A TRAIL OR VISITING, UH, A PIECE OF OPEN SPACE LIKE A VALLEY FORGE NATIONAL PARK, THEY MAY GO TO THE CONCESSION STAND AT VALLEY FORGE, THEY MIGHT RENT THE E-BIKE TO RIDE THE OUTER LOOP TRAIL, VALLEY FORGE.
THAT'S GENERATING ECONOMIC ACTIVITY, UH, FOR, UH, THE PARK, UM, AND FOR THE COMMUNITY.
SO THOSE, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.
AND THE FINDINGS WERE FAIRLY SUBSTANTIAL.
UM, I'M NOT GONNA GO INTO THE DETAILS OF THIS.
YOU CAN SEE THE IMPACTS IN THE THREE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.
I'M GONNA SUMMARIZE IT ON A HIGHER LEVEL, BUT BASICALLY THE STUDY FOUND THAT, UH, PROTECTED OPEN SPACE AND PROTECTED FARMLAND, UH, GENERATE ABOUT $160 MILLION OF TOTAL ECONOMIC IMPACT.
THAT'S ADDING ALL THREE CATEGORIES.
IT CREATES OVER 1500 JOBS, UH, THAT INCLUDE, UH, PUBLIC EMPLOYEES, FARMERS, UH, HOSPITALITY WORKERS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO, UH, WORK AT, UM, AT THE VALLEY FORGE, FOR EXAMPLE, OR, UH, JOBS IN COUNTY PARKS OR STATE PARKS.
THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHOSE JOBS, THEIR LIVELIHOOD IS DEPENDENT UPON PROTECTED OPEN SPACE.
AND FOR ALL THOSE PEOPLE, IT GENERATES ABOUT $49 MILLION IN SALARIES.
AND THIS I SHOULD ALSO ADD IS THAT THIS IS AS OF THREE YEARS AGO.
SO I WOULD IMAGINE THOSE NUMBERS HAVE PROBABLY INCREASED SLIGHTLY.
CATEGORY NUMBER THREE, ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES.
THIS SECTION ASSESSED THE ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS PROVIDED BY PROTECTED OPEN SPACE.
UM, AND IT FOUND THAT THERE'S REAL ECONOMIC VALUE IN REDUCING, IN THE, UH, REDUCTION IN FLOODS THAT OPEN SPACE PROVIDES IN HOW OPEN SPACE SLOWS STORM WATER, HOW IT FILTERS OUR WATER.
THESE ARE THINGS THAT CRYSTAL WAS TALK, JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW IT CLEANS OUR AIR AND SEQUESTERS CARBON.
AND IT DOES THIS EVERY SINGLE DAY, 24 HOURS A DAY, AND IT BASICALLY DOES IT FOR FREE.
THAT'S THE WAY NATURE WORKS AND THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO PROTECT IT.
SO IN TERMS OF THE CATEGORIES OF WHAT WE CALL THESE ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES, YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD THE TERM ECOLOGICAL SERVICES AS WELL.
THESE ARE THE, THESE ARE THE SERVICES ESSENTIALLY THAT NATURE PROVIDES IN THE FORM OF PROTECTIVE OPEN SPACE.
AND THERE ARE SIX MAIN CATEGORIES.
IT REMOVES AIR POLLUTION, OPEN SPACE, UH, PROTECTS OUR WATER SUPPLY.
THAT'S GETTING INTO WHAT, AGAIN, WHAT CRYSTAL WAS SAYING ABOUT, UH, RECHARGING OUR AQUIFERS AND GETTING THAT WATER BACK INTO THE GROUND SO IT CAN BE FILTERED.
IT IMPROVES OUR WA OUR WATER QUALITY BECAUSE INSTEAD OF LANDING ON A PIECE OF PAVEMENT, THE WATER LANDS ON GROUND AND AGAIN, GOES THROUGH THE SOIL.
WHEN, WHEN WATER GOES THROUGH SOIL, IT'S FILTERED AND CLEANED.
UM, WHEN IT FLOWS THROUGH VEGETATION ON THE SURFACE, WHEN THERE'S STORM WATER RUNOFF THAT'S RUNNING ALONG THE SURFACE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT GOING INTO THE SOIL, IT'S STILL BEING FILTERED BY THE GRASSES AND THE PLANTS THAT ARE ON THE SURFACE, UH, OF, OF THE GROUND.
UM, YOU LOOK AT A PLACE LIKE CONSHOHOCKEN WHEN IT FLOODS DURING A HURRICANE, IDA, I'M SURE WE ALL SAW THE NEWS REPORTS OF BEING RE PEOPLE BEING RESCUED.
THE REASON THAT'S HAPPENING IS BECAUSE THERE'S NOWHERE FOR THE WATER TO GO WHEN IT RISES.
WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE FLOODS IN HOUSTON, I DUNNO HOW MANY YEARS AGO IT WAS, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE HURRICANE, BUT THE REASON THAT THAT WAS THE FLOODING WAS SO BAD IS BECAUSE HOUSTON IS SO PAVED, THE WATER DIDN'T HAVE ANYWHERE TO GO AND TO DRAIN INTO.
SO IT JUST SITS ON THE SURFACE AND IT FLOODS.
IT CONSERVES WILDLIFE HABITAT.
UM, AND IT ALSO SEQUESTERS CARBON, UH, WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE MORE CARBON THAT GOES INTO THE ATMOSPHERE, AGAIN, I KNOW THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE IN CLIMATE CHANGE, OTHERS DON'T.
BUT IF YOU DO, WHICH I DO, UM, WHEN YOU RELEASE CARBON INTO THE ATMOSPHERE, IT IMPACTS, UH, THE ENVIRONMENT AND IT CAUSES, UH, ADVERSE EFFECTS ON THE GROUND, INCLUDING INCREASED FLOODING OR INTENSE STORMS. AND THEN WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THOSE, UH, LATER.
SO IN TERMS OF, OF NUMBERS, AGAIN, NOT GONNA DIVE INTO EVERY NUMBER ON THIS SLIDE, BUT BASICALLY IT SHOWS THAT THERE'S ABOUT $32 MILLION OF VALUE GAINED AND COST AVOIDED TO ARTIFICIALLY REPLACE THE SERVICES THAT ARE NATURALLY PROVIDED BY PROTECTED OPEN SPACE.
UM, SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE OPEN SPACE WEREN'T, UH, SEQUESTERING CARBON OR IF IT WEREN'T PROTECTING OUR CLEANING OUR WATER OR CLEANING OUR AIR,
[00:40:01]
THESE ARE THE, YOU HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO PAY COSTS FOR THOSE THINGS.YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THE TREATMENT OF THE WATER.
YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THE CLEANING OF OUR AIR.
UM, AND, UH, AND SO BY LEAVING LAND AS OPEN SPACE, NATURE IS DOING THIS WORK FOR YOU.
AND THERE'S AN ECONOMIC BENEFIT, UH, TO THAT.
AND THEN THAT STATISTIC ON THE RIGHT, AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THIS CARBON SEQUESTRATION ISSUE, UM, IF WE WERE TO CUT DOWN EVERY TREE IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY ROUGHLY, UM, AND ALL THAT CARBON WERE TO BE RELEASED, UM, INTO THE ATMOSPHERE, OR IF THEY ALL BURNED DOWN AND IT WAS RELEASED INTO THE ATMOSPHERE, IT WOULD COST ABOUT, UH, $98 MILLION TO DEAL WITH THE IMPACTS OF REMOVING THOSE TREES OR RELEASING THAT CARBON.
SO TREES, EVEN THOUGH THEY LOOK LIKE THEY JUST SIT THERE, ARE DOING A WHOLE LOT OF WORK TO SEQUESTER CARBON AND CLEAN OUR AIR.
AND THEN LASTLY, I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT DIRECT USE BENEFITS.
HERE WE ASSESS THE ECONOMIC VALUE THAT RESIDENTS IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY CAPTURE FROM THE USE OF OPEN SPACE IN TERMS OF THEIR WILLINGNESS TO PAY FOR COMPARABLE SERVICES AND AVOIDED HEALTHCARE COSTS.
UM, THE STUDY FOUND THAT OPEN SPACE PROVIDES A LOT OF FREE AND OR LOW COST RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES AND PROMOTES HEALTH.
SO WHAT I'M BASICALLY SAYING HERE IS THAT, UM, THIS WAS SORT OF BASED ON SOMETHING CALLED A WILLINGNESS TO PAY.
WHAT ARE PEOPLE WILLING TO PAY IN ORDER TO, UH, GET SOME RECREATIONAL VALUE? AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS, UH, WHAT WE FOUND, AND I'LL SHOW YOU THE STATISTICS IN IN A MINUTE, IS THAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY MONEY TO RECREATE.
BUT, AND SO THAT MEANS THEY WOULD PAY FOR A GYM MEMBERSHIP OR THEY WOULD PAY TO BELONG TO A POOL OR WHATEVER THEY WANT TO DO TO RECREATE AND EXERCISE.
THE BEAUTY OF OPEN SPACE IS IT DOESN'T COST ANYTHING TO RECREATE THERE.
AND SO THERE'S A, THERE'S A VALUE IN A SAVINGS ASSOCIATED WITH USING THE OPEN SPACE FOR THESE, UH, FOR THESE REASONS.
UM, SO I ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT, UH, PRESERVED OPEN SPACE PROVIDES FREE AND LOW COST, UH, OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO RECREATE.
TALKED ABOUT WILLINGNESS TO PAY AND THEN WHAT THE FOUND FINDING WAS THAT RESIDENTS WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY AN ADDITIONAL $219 MILLION FOR RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES AVAILABLE IN THE PRIVATE MARKET.
IN OTHER WORDS, ALL THE RESIDENTS FROM MONTGOMERY COUNTY WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY $219 MILLION TO FOR A GYM MEMBERSHIP OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT COSTS MONEY TO, TO GET THAT RECREATIONAL EXPERIENCE, WHICH EQUATES TO ABOUT $700 PER HOUSEHOLD.
UM, THAT'S A BIG NUMBER AND THAT'S WHY THINGS LIKE OUR TRAILS, I MEAN, MY, MY OTHER PART OF MY WORK IS TRAIL DEVELOPMENT IN THE COUNTY OR PROBABLY ALL FAMILIAR WITH THE PER TRAIL OR THE CHUCO RIVER TRAIL.
THE BEAUTY OF TRAILS IS THAT YOU CAN GO OUT, RIDE A BIKE, PUSH A STROLLER, UH, GO FOR A WALK, AND IT DOESN'T COST YOU ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE TAXES THAT YOU PAY TO THE COUNTY TO PAY FOR MY SALARY AND THE WORK THAT I DO.
AND I THINK THAT'S PRETTY GOOD RETURN ON YOUR INVESTMENT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE BENEFITS THAT THINGS LIKE TRAILS PROVIDE, UH, YOU AS A COUNTY, MONTGOMERY COUNTY RESIDENT.
AND THEN LASTLY, IN TERMS OF HEALTHCARE'S COST SAVINGS, THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE NUMBER OF RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE TO ALL OF YOU AND THE FREQUENCY OF YOUR PARTICIPATION IN AN ACTIVITY.
WE ALL KNOW THAT IT'S GOOD TO EXERCISE.
UM, AND THERE ARE BENEFITS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.
UM, AND WHAT THE STUDY FOUND IS THAT ACTIVITIES THAT TAKE PLACE ON PROTECTED OPEN SPACE IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY TRANSLATE TO ABOUT $225 MILLION OF AVOIDED MEDICAL COSTS.
AND $242 MILLION OF AVOIDED LOST PRODUCTIVITY, LOST PRODUCTIVITY COSTS FOR A TOTAL OF ALMOST HALF A BILLION DOLLARS IN HEALTHCARE SAVINGS.
WHAT I'M SAYING HERE IS THAT THE $225 MILLION OF AVOIDED MEDICAL COSTS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO RECREATE, UM, PROTECTED OPEN SPACE IN THE COUNTY, MEANS THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO THE DOCTOR, YOU'RE NOT PAYING FOR PRESCRIPTIONS AND ALL THE THINGS THAT COMES WITH BEING, UH, UH, UNHEALTHY I GUESS.
UM, AND THEN, UM, LOST PRODUCTIVITY TALKS ABOUT, UH, SORT OF THE, THE MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL BENEFITS OF OPEN SPACE AS FAR AS LOST PRO LOST PRODUCTIVITY.
BUT THE STUDY FOUND IS THAT PEOPLE WHO WERE ABLE TO USE PROTECTED OPEN SPACE FOR EXERCISE RESPITE AND SO ON, UM, ARE MORE PRESENT IN THEIR WORK.
THEY DON'T CALL IN SICK AS MUCH AND WHEN THEY AREN'T SO THAT IT AVOIDS ABSENTEEISM AND IT ALSO CALL AVOIDS SOMETHING CALLED PRESENTEEISM, WHICH WAS A NEW WORD TO ME, WHICH MEANS YOU GO TO THE OFFICE AND YOU'RE NOT PRODUCTIVE BECAUSE YOUR HEAD'S IN THE WRONG SPACE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF.
SO THIS IS A BIG, UH, NUMBER FOR, UH, OF SAVINGS, UH, THAT COME OUT OF, UH, UH, USING PROTECTED OPEN SPACE FOR THESE TYPES OF ACTIVITIES.
SO THOSE ARE THE DIRECT USE BENEFITS.
[00:45:01]
I WILL CONCLUDE BY SAYING, UM, BEING IN THIS FIELD FOR AS LONG AS I HAVE, WE USED TO TALK ALL THE TIME ABOUT HOW GREAT OPEN SPACE IS.UM, PEOPLE WERE KIND OF LIKE, YEAH, WE GET IT.
THIS GAVE US DATA THAT DATA'S POWER.
WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT NOW QUANTITATIVELY.
AND I THINK IT'S PRETTY CONVINCING.
THIS COUNTY, I'LL SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE COUNTY THAT WE'RE IN THIS GAME FOR THE LONG RUN.
WE JUST CREATED A NEW GRANT PROGRAM FOR OPEN SPACE PRESERVATION AT THE COUNTY LEVEL.
AND THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO THE COMMISSIONERS AND TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, UH, SUPPORTING, UH, SMART DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE COUNTY.
'CAUSE WE DO NEED TO DEVELOP SPACES, BUT WE ALSO NEED TO BALANCE THAT WITH OPEN SPACES SO THAT, UM, WE'RE NOT DOING ONE EXTREME IN EITHER DIRECTION.
UM, AND UM, THE GOOD THING ABOUT, UH, PROGRAMS LIKE, UH, D CNRS, UH, GRANT PROGRAMS FOR OPEN SPACE PRESERVATION OR EVEN THE COUNTIES, UH, NEW GRANT PROGRAM IS THAT, UM, UH, WE NEED MATCH, THOSE REQUIRE MATCH FUNDS BY LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES WHEN THEY APPLY FOR A GRANT FROM THE STATE OR FROM THE COUNTY.
AND OPEN SPACE FUNDS AT THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL HELP LEVERAGE THOSE FUNDS AT THE COUNTY AND THE STATE LEVEL SO THAT YOU CAN GET A LOT MORE BANG FOR YOUR MUNICIPAL DOLLAR.
UM, IF YOU HAVE THAT OPEN SPACE FUNDING AVAILABLE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, YOU CAN LEVERAGE IT WITH FUNDS FROM THE COUNTY OR THE STATE.
SO THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO, UH, LOOK AT THE PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THE TWO.
SO WE'RE ABOUT TO START THE QUESTION AND ANSWER PORTION OF THE SESSION.
UM, KYLE, UM, I, I'D ALSO LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT TO JUST INTRODUCE JACK STEPFORD, WHO'S HERE FROM NATURAL LANDS.
MY COLLEAGUES AND KYLE ROSE IN THE BACK.
KYLE HAS THE LIST OF FOLKS WHO SIGNED UP TO ASK QUESTIONS OR COMMENT.
UH, KYLE, JACK AND I'LL BE SITTING UP HERE IN THE FRONT.
WE'RE ABLE TO TAKE GENERAL QUESTIONS AND THEN THE SPEAKERS ARE ALL AVAILABLE TO TAKE QUESTIONS ABOUT ANYTHING THEY MENTIONED OR IF YOU'D LIKE THEM TO ANSWER A SPECIFIC QUESTION, LET THEM KNOW.
UM, WE ARE GONNA LIMIT THE TIME FOR THE QUESTIONS BECAUSE UM, WE WANT EVERYBODY TO GET A CHANCE TO ASK A QUESTION.
SO I'M GONNA SWITCH THAT OVER.
YOU GOT THAT? YEAH, PULL THAT PLUG OUT.
I JUST, THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR COMPUTER.
UM, AND IF YOU'RE MORE COMFORTABLE, IF YOU DON'T, YOU CAN COME TO THE FRONT TO ASK THE QUESTION OR IF YOU'RE MORE COMFORTABLE WE'LL BRING A MICROPHONE INTO YOUR CHAIR.
CAN PEOPLE HEAR ME OKAY? ALRIGHT.
UM, FIRST ON THE LIST HERE IS KRISTEN.
I'M TRYING TO READ A VARIETY OF HANDWRITING.
UH, THAT'S ALL BETTER THAN MINE.
THE FIRST ONE IS ON THE FIRST PAGE OF YOUR PAPER, IT TALKS ABOUT THE PROPOSED TAX INCREASE BEING 0.33 MILS WHEN THE REFERENDUM QUESTION IS 0.5 MILS.
UM, AND ON YOUR SLIDE IT WAS 0.33 MILS.
SO WHICH VALUE IS IT? IT'S 0.5.
AND ALSO THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE THAT ON THE PAVERS, I THINK THE CURRENT TOWNSHIP TAX IS 2.75 MILLS AND YOU HAVE IT AS THREE AND A HALF.
UM, LET'S SEE, UM, YOU USED THE WORD PROTECTED OPEN SPACE, BUT IS THAT PROTECTED OR IS THAT PERMANENTLY PRESERVED OPEN SPACE? I WOULDN'T SAY THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.
PROTECTED MEANS THAT IT CAN'T BE DEVELOPED.
SO, AND TYPICALLY LAND WHEN IT'S PROTECTED IS IN PERPETUITY.
WELL, I KNOW, I MEAN A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE I NEVER SEE AT MEETINGS, BUT WITH THE WHOLE PARK HOUSE THING, THAT WAS A BIG TO DO IN THE TOWNSHIP BECAUSE THE COUNTY WAY BACK WHEN HAD DESIGNATED THAT AS OPEN SPACE, BUT IT HAD NEVER BEEN PERMANENTLY PRESERVED.
SO THAT'S WHY MY QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, IS PROTECTED THE SAME AS PERMANENTLY PRESERVED? WELL, WHEN I, WHEN I USED THE TWO WORDS, I USED THEM SYNONYMOUSLY.
[00:50:01]
UM, AND I HAD ASKED THE TOWN TOWNSHIP SOLICITOR LAST MONTH WHEN THEY HAD AN INFORMATIONAL MEETING ABOUT IF THIS DOES PASS AND THEY GO TO WRITE THE RESOLUTION OR THE ORDINANCE CAN VERBIAGE BE PUT IN THAT TO SAY THAT ANY MONIES USED FROM THESE FUNDS WILL BE USED TO PERMANENTLY PRESERVE WHATEVER THEY ACQUIRE, THAT IF THE TOWNSHIP COMES ON HARD FINANCIAL TIMES FOR WHATEVER REASON THAT THEY CAN'T SELL IT.AND HE SAID THEY CAN'T PUT THAT WORDING IN THERE.
SO THAT'S A CONCERN I HAVE BECAUSE IF WE'RE ALL GONNA PAY THIS TAX AND IT IS A TAX AND THEN AT SOME POINT IN TIME IT'S NOT PERMANENTLY DESIGNATED AS A PRESERVED IN PERPETUITY PARCEL, THAT WHAT HAPPENS TO IT.
SO, I, I CAN'T ANSWER THIS QUESTION.
SO WHEN THE TOWNSHIP SETS UP THEIR OPEN SPACE PROGRAM, THEY'RE GONNA BE USING GUIDELINES BECAUSE YOU'RE GONNA WANNA LEVERAGE GRANT FUNDS AND THOSE GUIDELINES ARE AVAILABLE FROM BOTH DCNR AND MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
UM, IN THE MEANTIME AS WELL, MONTGOMERY COUNTY AND NEW YORK, YOUR GRANT PROGRAM IS NEW.
CHESTER COUNTY HAS SOME EXCELLENT MATERIALS.
SO IF YOU WANTED GUIDELINES ON, ON ANY OF, OF THE SORT OF HOW-TOS OF PRESERVATION THOSE ARE AVAILABLE, WHAT THEY MEAN BY PERMANENTLY PROTECTED, AND YOU HAVE TO DO THIS IF YOU'RE USING STATE MONEY.
DCNR ASKS THAT A COVENANT BE PLACED IN THE DEED AND THE COVENANT ALLOWS FOR THE LAND TO BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC IN PERPETUITY IF YOU'RE GONNA USE THOSE GRANT FUNDS IN CHESTER COUNTY, IT'S A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT WORDING, BUT, UM, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT THE TOWNSHIP SET UP THEIR PROGRAM BASED ON THE GUIDELINES FROM THE GRANT FUNDERS BECAUSE THAT'S GONNA BE REQUIRED ANYWAY TO LEVERAGE FUNDS AND THOSE, THAT'S HOW YOU CAN SEE WHAT THE, WHAT THE DIFFERENCES ESSENTIALLY BETWEEN LAND THAT HAS NOT BEEN DEVELOPED AND IS NOT PROTECTED VERSUS LAND THAT HAS BEEN PERMANENTLY PROTECTED.
AND UH, LASTLY, I KNOW I READ IT ON THE TOWNSHIP WEBSITE AND I SEE IT IN YOUR, YOUR PAPER, UM, THAT 20 UP TO 25% ANNUALLY CAN BE USED FROM THE FUNDS THAT ARE GATHERED BY THIS TAX FOR MAINTENANCE, ET CETERA.
WHAT HAPPENS TO, I KNOW THE LEFTOVER MONEY WILL ROLL OVER, BUT IF NO ONE IN THE TOWNSHIP IS WILLING TO SELL LAND TO THE TOWNSHIP FOR THIS PROGRAM, WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT MONEY OVER TIME? I MEAN, IT JUST BALLOONS AND BALLOONS AND BALLOONS ARE WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE FUNDS? THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION.
SO SOMETIMES YOU CAN EITHER STAND UP OR PUT PLEASURE TO YOUR MOUTH.
ALRIGHT, IS THIS, IS THIS, THANK YOU.
UM, HERE I CAN SWITCH WITH YOU IF YOU WANT.
THAT'S EASIER TO, UM, SO IN TERMS OF THE FUNDS ACCRUING, I HAVE THE ESTIMATED REVENUE.
CAN YOU STAND UP, STAND UP AND PUT IT CLOSER TO YOUR MOUTH? GO TO THE PODIUM.
SO IN TERMS OF YOUR ESTIMATED REVENUE, UM, YOU'RE ACCRUING I THINK A LITTLE BIT ABOVE 1.25 MILLION PER YEAR.
THAT MIGHT NOT BE ENOUGH IN YOUR FIRST YEAR TO ACQUIRE PROPERTY.
IF YOU'RE LUCKY TO HAVE A REALLY BIG PROPERTY COME ALONG, YOU'RE GONNA NEED, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY MORE FUNDING THAN THAT.
UM, WHAT YOU ARE ALWAYS GONNA BASE THE COST THAT YOU'RE PAYING ON AN APPRAISAL AND THAT APPRAISAL HAS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES FROM THE STATE AND THE COUNTY TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S A FAIR PRICE.
BUT, UM, IF THE MONEY IS ACCRUING FOR TWO OR THREE YEARS, THAT'S OKAY.
THERE ARE SOME COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE LAND THAT, THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE.
I'M, I'M AWARE OF THE LANDOWNER.
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HER THAT HER LAND BE CONSERVED BUT AFTER HER DEATH.
AND SO YOU MIGHT WAIT, BUT YOU MIGHT NEED TO WAIT.
THAT PROPERTY MIGHT BE VERY EXPENSIVE AND YOU MIGHT NEED A FEW YEARS OF ACCRUING VALUE TO HAVE ENOUGH TO AFFORD THAT PROPERTY.
BECAUSE I DO KNOW THAT RAW ACREAGE IN THE STATE IS ANYWHERE BETWEEN 70 308,000 AN ACRE, WHICH ISN'T ANYTHING.
NOW I KNOW IT'S HIGHER OR CAN BE HIGHER IF IT'S CLOSER INTO MORE DEVELOPED AREAS.
AND REAL QUICK, ONE MORE THING.
IS THIS PROPOSED TAX GOING TO STAY AT A HALF A MIL OR IS IT GOING TO GO UP IN YEAR TWO, YEAR THREE, YEAR FOUR, YEAR FIVE.
SO IT DOESN'T, IF YOU WANT THE TAX TO GO UP OR DOWN, UH, IT, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH ANOTHER REFERENDUM PROCESS.
SO YOU CAN'T JUST CHANGE THE RATE WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A PROCESS AND HAVING THE MAJORITY OF VOTERS APPROVE THAT INCREASE.
CAN PEOPLE HEAR ME? OKAY, GREAT.
UM, NEXT ON THE LIST IS DARREN BARTOW.
I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHO TO DIRECT THIS TO.
UH, SO I'LL JUST DIRECT IT TO YOU.
YOU GOTTA HOLD IT REALLY CLOSE.
UM, SO, UH, THANK YOU FOR THIS INFORMATION BY THE WAY.
IT'S VERY INFORMATIVE AND THE PANEL APPEAR GREAT.
I USE SPARKY TRAIL ALL THE TIME.
SO MY QUESTION IS, IT'S MORE OR LESS INFORMATION HERE THAT I JUST KIND OF READ THROUGH, UH, TODAY.
[00:55:01]
THAT THE TOWNSHIP IS 95% OR MORE DEVELOPED, LIKE WHAT DOES MORE MEAN? IS IT 95.1 OR IS IT LIKE 97? AND WHAT DOES THIS, IF THIS PASSES, DOES THAT CHANGE THAT? LIKE, WILL WILL THE TOWNSHIP BE CONSUMING SOME OF THAT DEVELOPED LAND TO THE POINT WHERE I WON'T CONTINUALLY SEE HOUSES POPPING UP ON EVERY CORNER? IS IS THAT THE INTENTION HERE? SO THE TOWNSHIP IS QUITE DEVELOPED.I'M NOT SURE OF THE EXACT PERCENTAGE, BUT YOU'RE GETTING CLOSE TO BEING FULLY, FULLY BUILT OUT.
UM, YOU DO HAVE OPPORTUNITIES LEFT AND THOSE OPPORTUNITIES ARE OUTLINED ON THE MAX IN THE BACK.
SO CATHERINE WAS MENTIONING WE DO THIS FOR EVERY COMMUNITY WE WORK WITH.
WE LOOK AT HOW MUCH WE THINK IS AVAILABLE THAT WOULD IMPACT.
SO THOSE GREEN AREAS ON THE MAP THERE, WE ARE ALSO SHOWING PUBLIC AND PROTECTED LAND.
SO YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE YOUR ALREADY PROTECTED SPACE AS WELL AS THE OPPORTUNITIES YOU HAVE TO PROTECT FOR.
SO WE ONLY WORK WITH WILLING LANDOWNERS AND WE ADVISE THAT MUNICIPALITIES ALSO ONLY WORK WITH WILLING LANDOWNERS.
I CAN'T SAY THAT IT'LL STOP EVERY DEVELOPMENT FROM MOVING FORWARD BECAUSE SOME FOLKS HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP THEIR LAND IF THEY WANT TO, BUT DETACHMENT LEASE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITH THE LANDOWNER AHEAD OF TIME.
AND AS CATHERINE ALSO MENTIONED, LANDOWNERS MAYBE HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS ON THEIR OWN, BUT THEY DON'T THINK THE TOWNSHIP IS INTERESTED 'CAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S NO FUNDING TO BUY THEIR LAND, SO THEY MIGHT NOT APPROACH.
BUT ONCE A REFERENDUM PASSES, LANDOWNERS KIND OF COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK AND ARE INTERESTED IN TALKING TO THE TOWNSHIP ABOUT IT.
UM, JUST AS A POINT OF FACT, UM, A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SAYS THE VACANT PROPERTY.
OH OF COURSE NOW MY PHONE CLICKS.
THE VACANT PROPERTY ACCOUNTS FOR 4.79% OF THE 12,651 ACRES IN UPPER PROVINCE TOWNSHIP ARE NEARLY 605 ACRES.
UH, SO IT'S 4.79 PEOPLE AROUND THE FIVE.
THE OTHER ONE IS, UH, JUST MY, MAYBE PART OF MY IGNORANCE, BUT DRIVING AROUND.
YOU SEE THESE YARD SIGNS EVERYWHERE? VOTE YES, VOTE NO.
UH, THE VOTE NO HAS LIKE A 12% NUMBER ON IT.
CAN ANYBODY EXPLAIN WHERE THAT'S COMING FROM? VOTE THANK YOU.
I WAS TOLD THAT THE 12% NUMBER WAS ARRIVED AT LOUDER BACK AS LOUDER.
I WAS TOLD THAT THE 12% NUMBER WAS ARRIVED AT BY LOOKING AT THE 1% EIT, WHICH IS SPLIT BETWEEN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND THE TOWNSHIP.
THE INCREASES ON THE TOWNSHIP HALF, SO THAT MAKES IT NOT A 6% INCREASE, BUT A 12% INCREASE.
JUST, JUST TO BE CLEAR, JUST TO BE CLEAR, THAT MAKES IT A 0.06% INCREASE, NOT A 6% INCREASE.
UH, NEXT ON THE LIST, UH, JEAN CORDE.
FORGIVE ME AGAIN WITH PRONUNCIATION.
UM, SO I HAVE A QUESTION IS, UH, FRUGAL LAND TRUST.
SO I'M NOT SURE IF I'M CLEAR ON WHAT ROLE YOU'RE PLAYING IN THIS WITH THE TOWNSHIP AND IS THERE A COST ASSOCIATED WITH IT? ARE YOU CHARGING THE TOWNSHIP? MM-HMM
DO YOU IT'S A PROPOSAL WITH THE TOWNSHIP.
HOW MUCH ARE WE GONNA BE PAYING? HOW MUCH WILL WE BE PAYING LAND? THE NATURAL LAND TRUST? I DON'T KNOW OFF HAND.
DO, DO WE HAVE A PROPOSAL THOUGH THAT THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH, I I DON'T KNOW THERE THE, THE COST ASSOCIATED BY NATIONAL INTEREST.
THEIR PROPOSAL IS FOR THIS PROCESS FOR PRIOR TO THE REFERENDUM, THEY, THEY DEVELOPED THE TAXING STRUCTURE.
THEY WENT THROUGH REFERENDUM LANGUAGE WITH THEIR ORDINANCE.
THERE IS NO CONTRACT PASSED NOVEMBER 4TH.
SO HOW MUCH ARE, THERE IS NO AGREEMENT FOR ANYTHING PAST NOVEMBER 4TH ACTUALLY AFTER TONIGHT WE'RE YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN RIGHT? I I'M JUST USING THAT.
IT SAYS NOVEMBER 4TH IS ELECTION DAY.
ONCE THE REFERENDUM, IF IT PASSES OR IF IT DOES NOT PASS, THERE IS NO CON THERE'S NO CONTINUED RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT CONTRACTUALLY WITH NATURAL INSURANCE.
SO HOW MUCH ARE, HOW MUCH AS RESIDENTS OR HAVE WE BEEN PAYING THEM UP ABOUT A, UH, I THINK IT WAS A, UH, CONTRACT RATE OF $10,000 TO CONSULT.
AND WHERE DID THAT MONEY COME FROM? IN OUR TOWNSHIP.
IT CAME FROM THE TOWNSHIP BUDGETS.
BECAUSE, UM, I KNOW I'VE BEEN, I HAVE LIVED IN THE TOWNSHIP FOR OVER 30 YEARS NOW, AND I KNOW THERE'S, AND I'M PRETTY SURE I'M NOT A HALF MILE CLOSE TO OPEN SPACE.
[01:00:01]
DO KNOW THAT BECAUSE A FIELD THAT WAS 45 ACRES RIGHT NEXT TO OUR HOUSE WAS DEVELOPED YEARS AGO.AND UM, SOMETHING BEHIND US WAS DEVELOPED YEARS AGO, SO I AM NOT A HALF MILE NEAR OPEN SPACE.
UM, SO I WANTED TO KNOW, LIKE THERE'S A MILDRED HASS, UM, PRESERVE LAND.
THERE'S THE ANDERSON
SO HOW DID WE ACQUIRE THAT PIECES OF PRESERVED LAND WITH NOT THIS OPEN SPACE, UM, TAX RATE INCREASE? WHY CAN'T WE JUST KEEP DOING THAT SINCE THERE REALLY IS NO MORE OPEN SPACE? UM, I CAN, I CAN TAKE THAT.
AND THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.
'CAUSE IT'S A REALLY WONDERFUL QUESTION AND I HAVE TO COMMEND THE TOWNSHIP ON WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
THE TOWNSHIP HAS THE POWER TO BUDGET FOR OPEN SPACE AND THEIR GENERAL BUDGET.
THEY WANT TO ASK YOU, THIS IS A VERY DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.
YOU KNOW, HAVING A REFERENDA PROVIDES EVERY VOTER WITH THE RIGHT TO GO INTO THAT BOOTH AND DECIDE ON YOUR OWN IF THIS IS WORTH IT TO YOU.
AND THE MUNICIPALITY DECIDED TO ASK YOU, RATHER THAN JUST MAKE DECISIONS BASED, YOU KNOW, ON WITH FUNDS FROM, FROM THE GENERAL BUDGET, FROM A FACTUAL STANDPOINT, WE RECEIVED THE MILDRED HESS TRUST AS A DONATION FROM MR. HESS.
AND THE, UM, I'M FAIRLY SURE ANDERSON FARM PARK WAS A PART OF THE ADJACENT DEVELOPMENT, BUT I COULD BE WRONG ON THAT.
SO WHY ARE WE PURSUING THOSE AVENUES WITHOUT A TAX RATE INCREASE TO THE RESIDENTS? I MEAN, WHY ISN'T, WHY, WHY ISN'T THE TOWNSHIP DOING THAT? WE ARE OKAY, BUT WE STILL NEED A TAX INCREASE TO I'M NOT HERE TO, I'M NOT, MY ROLE HERE IS NOT HAVE, WE'RE NOT ADVOCATING ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
THIS IS A PUBLIC INFORMATION SESSION.
WELL, THAT'S WHAT I, SO YOU GUYS CAN HAVE THE INFORMATION TO MAKE A YES OR NO DECISION.
AND THEN MY OTHER, MY LAST QUESTION IS ABOUT THE PARK HOUSE, AND THIS GOES MORE TOWARDS THE STORE MANAGEMENT PEOPLE.
UM, THE COUNTY DID OWN THE PARK HOUSE AT ONE TIME.
IT WAS A COUNTY PARK AND THEN IT WAS SOLD DURING THE JOSH PIRO ERA.
SO I WANNA KNOW, UM, AS LEADERS IN THIS TYPE OF THING, WHY ARE YOU FIGHTING A LITTLE BIT HARDER TO KEEP THIS PROPOSED? BECAUSE THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE 570 MORE HOUSES BEING BUILT THERE, AND AS YOU KNOW, IT'S RIGHT ALONG THE SCHUYLKILL RIVER.
SO AS THE LEADERS OF OUR COMMUNITY, WHY AREN'T WE PRESERVING THAT? I CAN EXPLAIN TO YOU THE ZONING PROCESS FOR THAT.
I CAN'T EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY, BECAUSE IT WAS SOLD, THE COUNTY SOLD IT TO A PRIVATE PERSON, AND I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHY THE COUNTY DECIDED TO DO THAT.
WELL, THEY NEEDED MONEY FOR SOME DEBT OKAY.
AND THEN THEY WASTED THE, AGAIN, THAT'S NOT THE I GOT, BUT I, I CAN EXPLAIN THE ZONING FOR THAT.
IF YOU'D LIKE PRESERVING LAND INSTEAD OF BUILDING 570 MORE HOUSES, THAT'S GOING TO EAT UP ALL THAT OPEN SPACE FOR THE BIRDS AND THE BEES AND THE, YOU KNOW, TREES, BEAUTIFUL TREES.
THERE ARE GORGEOUS TREES DOWN THERE.
SO I'M, I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOUR QUESTION IS.
WHY ISN'T, WHY ISN'T THE TOWNSHIP TRYING TO PRESERVE MORE LAND LIKE THAT RATHER THAN 570 HOUSES COMING? BECAUSE THE, THE ZONING WAS IN PLACE FOR OVER 2000 UNITS.
WE'VE NEGOTIATED THAT DOWN TO 500 AND 585 UNITS.
SO THAT WE CAN PRESERVE OPEN SPACE.
SO I THINK THERE'S A, A GUARANTEE OF GETTING ALMOST 90 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE THROUGH THAT DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
WHEN THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP THE ENTIRE PROCESS WITH THE ENTIRE PARCEL WITH OVER 2000 UNITS.
NOBODY FROM THE TOWNSHIP IS, IS HAPPY.
BUT WE ARE, WE CAME TO THE BEST COMPROMISE WE COULD DURING THAT LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
AND IT WAS A VERY LONG PROCESS AND COMING DOWN TO 585 UNITS, WHILE IT MAY NOT BE A WIN, IT'S NOT A COMPLETE LOSS, IT'S NOT A LOSS, IT'S NOT A WIN.
WE DEBATE THIS SOME OTHER TIME.
THIS ISN'T THE FORM I HAVE, I HAVE, BUT IT JUST SEEMS, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, UH, OPEN SPACE TAX IS GONNA REALLY DO FOR US AS A CHALLENGE.
IF THE MUNICIPALITY HAD AN OPEN SPACE FUND ENOUGH TO PURCHASE THAT THEY COULD HAVE PURCHASE.
WELL, YOU, YOU COULDN'T PUT IT UP.
I MEAN, YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PURCHASE THAT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BASED FUND.
AND THAT'S WHY YOU APPLIED FOR GRANTS.
GRANTS BECAUSE THERE ARE VALUABLE PIECES OF PROPERTY OUT THERE THAT YOU DON'T WANNA SEE DEVELOPED.
AND UNLESS YOU'RE WILLING TO PONY UP AND BUY THOSE PROPERTIES, THEY'RE GONNA GET DEVELOPED AFTER YOU CAN'T AFFORD, THEY'RE, THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE AN OPEN SPACE FUND, AFFORD THE TAX.
YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO, I MEAN, YOU JUST WON'T.
[01:05:02]
I'M NOT SURE HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE HEARD ABOUT BRAND COLORED FARMS, UM, AND CREDIBILITY FARM? OH YEAH.THOSE ARE TWO PROPERTIES THAT NATIONAL LAND TRUST WORKED ON TO CONSERVE.
THE VALUE OF THAT PROPERTY WAS A HUNDRED THOUSAND AN ACRE.
UM, SO THERE'S NO WAY THAT WE WOULD'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT IF THOSE, IF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE MUNICIPALITIES HADN'T ALREADY HAD AN OPEN SPACE TAX, WE WERE SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE OF THAT.
THERE'S, WE COULDN'T HAVE TOUCHED IT ANY OTHER WAY.
IT'S GOOD TO TALK ABOUT ALL THESE THINGS.
BUT YOU DIDN'T PRESERVE THE WHOLE PIECE OF PRAIRIEVILLE.
THERE'S FOUR CONSERVATION EASEMENTS, UM, TOTAL ABOUT A HUNDRED ACRES OF ON THE, ON THE, ON THE BUILDINGS THAT ALREADY EXISTED.
AND OUTRIGHT FEE PURCHASES OF 200 ACRES FOR THE, FOR FOR COUNCIL.
I THOUGHT
UM, NEXT ON THE LIST IS KEVIN BUSH.
YOU WANNA DO THE WHOLE WALK OR YOU WANT ME TO COME TO YOU? MEET YOU? HALFWAY.
ALTHOUGH I THINK THIS BIKE WORKS BETTER SO I CAN, HI.
I'M A RELATIVELY NEW RESIDENT TO HERE.
I LIVE IN, IN, UH, MONTCLAIR WITH MY WIFE AND TWO BOYS.
WE MOVED HERE IN PART BECAUSE OF ALL OF THE, UH, RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES.
WE MOVED FROM DC WHICH IS A LITTLE MORE DENSE THAN OUR FOR PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP.
UM, WHEN I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, JUST BEING A DAD IN A RESIDENTIAL FOR PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP, I WORK WITH COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE, THE COUNTRY.
I'M AN URBAN PLANNER, UH, BY TRAINING USED TO WORK FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT.
AND I'VE BEEN TO A LOT OF DIFFERENT PLACES IN THIS COUNTRY.
UNIVERSALLY, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK PEOPLE STRUGGLE WITH IS THE FACT THAT WE'RE A COUNTRY THAT'S BASED ON PRIVATE PROPERTY LAW.
RIGHT? YOU OWN A HALF ACRE, YOU OWN AN ACRE, YOU OWN A HUNDRED ACRES, THAT'S YOUR LAND.
AND YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH IT AS LONG AS IT, YOU KNOW, FALLS INTO THE ZONING STANDARDS.
PEOPLE SAY, WELL, CAN'T WE JUST ZONE IT OPEN SPACE? THERE'S A LOT OF SUPREME COURT LAW THAT'S OUT THERE AROUND HOW TOWNSHIPS CAN'T JUST RESTRICT EVERY SORT OF USE.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S BEEN INTERESTING, YOU KNOW, WATCHING THIS, UH, THIS DEBATE UNFURL HERE AROUND OPEN SPACE IN THE TOWNSHIP IS HOW YOU HAVE FOLKS PRETTY MUCH UNIVERSALLY SAYING, WE WISH WE HAD MORE OPEN SPACE HERE.
WE WISH WE COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING.
I WASN'T EVEN THAT INVOLVED AROUND PARKHOUSE, BUT I'VE HEARD A LOT ABOUT PARKHOUSE JUST BEING HERE A YEAR AND A HALF.
AND PEOPLE SAY, MAN, I WISH WE COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING.
I WISH WE COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING.
BUT YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE TOOLS IN PLACE TO DO SOMETHING.
AND I THINK WE HAD AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE HAPPENED TO BE FROM A PLACE THAT I LOVE RIDING MY MOTORCYCLE AROUND IN BREVILLE ON THE WAY TO BUTTER SCOTCH CAFE.
I THINK THAT'S THE PLACE YOU MENTIONED, RIGHT? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
THE NORTHEAST PART OF MICHIGAN DOESN'T ACTUALLY HAVE THAT MUCH MONEY.
THE TOWNSHIPS AREN'T THAT BIG.
UM, AND THERE IS PRESERVED LAND EVERYWHERE YOU DRIVE BY.
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO MISS THESE LITTLE PLAQUES THAT SAY PERMANENTLY PRESERVED, SOMEONE BOUGHT A CONSERVATION EASEMENT.
RIGHT? YOU CAN'T DO THAT HERE WITHOUT THE RIGHT SET OF TOOLS.
SURE, SOMEBODY MIGHT DONATE A PARCEL OF LAND.
UH, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SQUEEZE SOMETHING OUT OF A DEVELOPER THROUGH A A BROADER LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, BUT THERE'S STILL PLENTY OF, WELL, IT MIGHT NOT BE TECHNICALLY VACANT LAND BECAUSE THERE'S A HOUSE ON A LARGE SPOT OF ACREAGE, OR THERE'S A FARM, OR THERE'S A FARM STAND.
THERE'S STILL A LOT OF LAND THAT IS NOT DEVELOPED TO ITS FULLEST USE.
SO IF YOU'RE SOMEONE THAT LIVES IN THIS TOWNSHIP AND YOU WANNA SEE LESS LARGE PLOTS OF LAND TURNED INTO TOWNHOUSES OR EVEN MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS OR, YOU KNOW, MAYBE, YOU KNOW, THOSE MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS NEED TO HAPPEN SOMEWHERE, BUT YOU'D RATHER THEM BE CLOSER TO, YOU KNOW, THE HIGHWAY INTERCHANGE AND NOT ON A PIECE OF FARMLAND.
THIS IS ANOTHER TOOL THAT THE TOWNSHIP SUPERVISORS HAVE SAID, RESIDENTS, WE HEARD YOU, WE HEARD THAT PEOPLE CARE ABOUT OPEN SPACE AS YOUR REPRESENTATIVE.
SO I THINK MAKE LIKE TWO GRAND A YEAR.
LIKE THEY'RE BASICALLY VOLUNTEERS.
UH, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS TO DO WHAT WE KNOW YOU WANT.
SO I WOULD URGE YOU TO CONSIDER THAT AS A TOOL.
AND I'M PROBABLY GONNA BE VOTING FOR IT.
OKAY, I'LL TAKE IT UP THERE IF YOU'D LIKE.
UH, FIRST OFF, UH, THANK YOU TO THE TOWNSHIP FOR ORGANIZING THIS INFORMATIONAL EVENT AND THANK YOU PANEL
[01:10:01]
FOR PROVIDING TRUTHFUL, FACTUAL INFORMATION THAT'S REALLY SUPER IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US HERE.I THINK FOR ME, THE QUESTION FOR US IS, IS OPEN SPACE IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO US THAT WE'RE GONNA PAY A LITTLE BIT MORE IN TAXES IN MY BOOK? YEAH.
IT'S, I SEE FOUR MAIN BENEFITS AS I LIVE HERE.
FIRST ONE IS, I COME TO THIS TOWNSHIP BUILDING A COUPLE DAYS A WEEK AND THERE'S ALWAYS PEOPLE AT THE PARKS.
I GO TO WEGMANS, THERE'S ALWAYS PEOPLE WALKING ON THE TRAILS.
TO ME, THAT'S QUALITY OF LIFE.
BY DOING THIS TYPE OF AN EVENT, UH, DOING SOME, UH, PROGRAM INITIATIVE, WE COULD BUILD OUT MORE THAT MORE TRAILS HAVE HIGHER QUALITY OF LIFE, SAFE PLACES FOR KIDS TO RIDE THEIR BIKES, THEIR BIKES, SAFE PLACES FOR FAMILIES TO WALK SAFE PLACES FOR GRANDPARENTS WHEN THEIR GRANDKIDS COME, YOU CAN OUT FOR A WALK AND ENJOY THE NATURAL BEAUTY OF THIS AREA.
ALL THAT STUFF HELPS MAKE UPPER PROVIDENCE A DESIRABLE PLACE FOR FAMILIES TO MOVE TO.
SO IF WE HAVE OUTSIDE PEOPLE LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO LIVE AND THEY SAY, HEY, UPPER PROVINCE IS A PRETTY COOL PLACE, LOOK AT ALL THESE TRAILS THEY HAVE.
THEY'LL WANT TO BUY OUR HOUSES.
THAT'S GONNA IMPROVE OUR PROPERTY VALUES AND THAT'S ALL IMPORTANT TO US RIGHT NOW.
IN CONCLUSION, I THINK IT'S A RELATIVELY LOW COST SOLUTION TO A PROBLEM THAT ALL OF US BELIEVE IN, AND THAT IS CONTROLLING URBAN SPRAWL.
I PERSONALLY LOVE LIVING IN UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP.
I'M PROUD OF OUR AMENITIES, OUR SERVICES, THE NATURAL BEAUTY OF THE AREA, AND THE SECURE FINANCIAL FOOTING OF OUR TOWNSHIP.
THIS, THIS REFERENDUM WILL PUT US ON GREATER, STRONGER FINANCIAL FOOTING.
I KNOW THAT LOCAL PROVIDENCE IS A BEST IN CLASS TOWNSHIP COMPARED TO OTHER TOWNSHIPS AROUND US.
IF YOU FEEL THE SAME WAY, I DO A VOTE YES IS A VOTE TO KEEP UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP A BEST IN CLASS PLACE THROUGH AS A FAMILY.
UM, NEXT AND LIST IS TOM GENKI.
I CAN COME TO YOU IF YOU WANT, JOE.
BUT, SO I TRIED TJ FOR THOSE THAT MIGHT KNOW ME BETTER.
UM, ALRIGHT, UH, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS AND UH, I APOLOGIZE FROM THE BEGINNING BECAUSE WE COULDN'T HEAR YOU VERY WELL, BUT YOUR NAME IS KATE, BUT WHO DO YOU REPRESENT? NATURAL LANCE.
AND WHO IS HERE FROM UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP? LIKE THE SUPERVISORS OR? MY NAME IS JEFF GRACE.
WE HAVE SUE HOFFMAN, I'M SORRY, HOFFMAN SUE HOFFMAN.
SHE'S DIRECTOR OF PARK TIM BERMAN, THE, UH, TOWN MANAGER AND ZACH.
SO THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.
OUR ONE SUPERVISOR REPRESENTING MARIA.
JUST SO THE SHIP IS IN FACT REPRESENTED HERE, NOT DISPATCHER LANCE TRUST IN OUR, IN OUR GUEST ACCORDINGLY.
UM, SO THERE IS SOME DEBATE ABOUT WHAT THE AMOUNT OF OPEN SPACE IS REMAINING WITHIN THE TOWNSHIP.
AND WE'VE COME TO THE 4.79% OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.
AND, UH, AND THE MAP WILL SHOW US WHERE THAT OPEN, WHERE THAT REMAINING OPEN SPACE, THE NATIONAL LAND TRUST MAP IS.
THERE'S ALSO AN OFFICIAL MAP THAT THAT SHOWS THAT.
SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE AS RESOURCES TO, TO USE TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THIS INCREASE IN THE TAX, UH, IS WORTH IT FOR PRESERVING THOSE OPEN SPACES.
THERE WAS A COMMENT EARLIER ABOUT 12% TAX INCREASE.
AND THE OTHER THING THAT I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU IS LOOK AT THE NUMBERS THAT WERE PUT UP BASED ON AVERAGE INCOME.
UH, SO THE EIT AND AVERAGE, UH, PROPERTY VALUES FOR THE, UH, THE MILLAGE AND WHAT THAT PERSONAL INCREASE IN TAXES ARE TO ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL.
AND WE'RE TALKING A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS A YEAR INCREASE COMPARED TO HOW MUCH EVER YOU MAY ALREADY
[01:15:01]
BE PAYING.UM, WHEN I FIRST HEARD ABOUT THIS REFERENDUM, IT WAS DURING THE TOWNSHIP FAIR DAY, A MONTH OR SO AGO THAT WE HAD HERE.
AND THAT'S WHEN I FIRST HEARD ABOUT IT.
AND ME PERSONALLY, IT WAS LIKE, THIS IS A NO-BRAINER, THIS IS A NO-BRAINER.
AND THEN AS I CONTINUED AROUND THE DIFFERENT BOOTHS, I ACTUALLY ENCOUNTERED, UH, SOMEONE WHO WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE GIVING MONEY TO THE TOWNSHIP BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA CHANGE THEIR MIND AND DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH IT AND ALL THIS OTHER STUFF.
BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S ALL PRETTY WELL LAID OUT LEGALLY THAT THIS MONEY IS DEDICATED FOR OPEN SPACE LAND.
THIS MONEY IS DEDICATED TO IMPROVEMENTS WITH EXISTING OPEN SPACES.
WE'VE HEARD ALL THE BENEFITS OF OPEN SPACES, UH, THE USAGE, YOU KNOW, OF THE PARKS, THE TRAILS, THE CHUCO RIVER TRAIL, THE PERKIOMEN VALLEY, PERO, AND, UH, CREEK TRAIL, JUST ALL THE BENEFITS OF OPEN SPACES AND WHAT WE HAVE IN OUR COMMUNITY RIGHT HERE.
I'VE BEEN HERE FOR 40 PLUS YEARS AND YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HAVE THOSE TRAILS.
AND IN THAT TIME I GAVE YOU SOME EXTRA TIME BECAUSE I STUMBLED.
SO ANY RATE, UM, DO YOUR RESEARCH, DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
AND HONESTLY, THE OTHER THING I ANTICIPATED TONIGHT WAS MORE OF A, UH, OF A DEBATE OF WHERE ARE THE NAYSAYERS AND WHAT ARE THE NAYSAYERS? WHAT IS THE REASON FOR VOTING NO ON THIS REFERENDUM? THANK YOU.
UM, I THINK MY BIGGEST THING WAS WHEN I FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS, A LITTLE MORE BREAKDOWN OR DETAIL OF, OKAY, WE'RE GETTING, CAN'T HEAR YOU.
WE'RE GETTING THIS CLOSER TO YOU.
UM, I THINK I'M JUST LOOKING FOR A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ON ORGANIC TAXES AS MUCH.
HOW MUCH OF THIS IS ALLOCATED TO WHAT WE COULD AFFORD TOMORROW? WHY IS IT CONTINUOUSLY BEING, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO SUNSET CLAUSE IN THIS, SO YOU'RE CONTINUALLY GETTING, IF WE CAN'T, IS THERE A WAY TO BID ON SOME OF THE OPEN SPACE? IF IT WAS AVAILABLE TOMORROW WITH COLLECTING YOUR TAXES? HOW MUCH OF THAT TAX, IF IT DOESN'T GET SPENT, DOES IT GO TO UPKEEPING TRAILS? WHERE DOES, HOW IS THAT MONEY SPENT NOW? I MEAN, IS THERE TAX MONEY ALREADY BEING PUT TOWARDS UPKEEP THE TRAILS AND CONCERNING WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE OPEN SPACE? UH, JUST KIND OF WANT A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ON THE ALLOCATION OF WHERE THESE TAXES ARE REALLY GOING AS FAR AS PURCHASING OPEN SPACE VERSUS UPKEEP VERSUS CAN WE EVEN AFFORD SOME OF THESE TRACKS THAT IF THEY BECAME AVAILABLE, WHERE DO I GET THAT? WHERE DO WE GET THAT INFORMATION CAN ANSWER, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT, THAT WE DO HAVE ONGOING NEGOTIATIONS WITH SOME PROPERTY OWNERS, OBVIOUSLY.
UM, THOSE ARE PRIVATE MATTERS BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S A PRIVATE REAL ESTATE TRANSACTION AT THIS POINT.
A LOT OF IT DOES DEPEND IF IT PASSES OR IF IT DOESN'T.
AND IF IT DOESN'T, THE SUPERVISORS AT SOME POINT WILL HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION ON THE FINANCIAL END OF IT.
UM, WHAT THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF TRAILS, I THINK IT'S LIMITED 25%.
UM, MAY WELL, WHAT, WHO'S PAYING FOR IT NOW? I GUESS? YES.
WE'RE, UH, SO, AND, AND THE COUNTY ALSO, IF IT'S A COUNTY TRAIL, THE COUNTY IS MAINTAINING THOSE TRAILS.
I CAN TAKE, I CAN ANSWER YOUR OTHER QUESTIONS AS WELL.
SO, UM, THE, THE FUNDS FROM THE TAX GO INTO A DEDICATED ACCOUNT.
THEY HAVE TO, THAT'S HOW IT, HOW IT WORKS AND HOW IT HAS TO BE SET UP.
SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SEPARATE ACCOUNT THAT THESE TAX FUNDS ACCRUE IN.
25% CAN BE USED FOR MAINTENANCE.
BUT THE PHRASE INCUR INDEBTEDNESS, THAT'S PART OF THE QUESTION, MEANS THAT YOU COULD ALWAYS TAKE A BOND AND MANY MUNICIPALITIES DO.
SO IF A SAY THE DAY AFTER THE REFERENDUM PASSES AND YOU'RE GETTING YOUR PROGRAM SET UP, YOU FIND AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OPEN SPACE.
THE TOWNSHIP COULD ALWAYS, UH, HIRE BOND COUNCIL AND, AND BOND.
AND ACTUALLY EAST ISLAND DID THAT BECAUSE THEY HAD A TRANSACTION THAT WAS READY TO GO RIGHT AFTER THEIR REFERENDUM PASSED.
AND THAT COMES OUT OF THAT FUND.
AND I, I THINK ANOTHER PIECE OF IT IS JUST KNOW THAT THIS IS MATCH MONEY.
[01:20:01]
IN ORDER TO SIT AT THE TABLE AND PLAY THIS GAME, YOU'VE GOTTA BRING SOME MATCH MONEY, RIGHT? SO DCNR PROVIDES USUALLY FOR A, A MUNICIPAL ACQUISITION, A 50% MATCH.AND THE COUNTY, I BELIEVE IS NOW PROVIDING 75.
THEY, THEY REQUIRE 25, BUT WE'LL PROVIDE 75.
SO THAT MAKES YOUR MONEY GO QUITE A BIT FURTHER.
SO IF YOU HAD TO HAVE A BOND AND YOU STILL COULDN'T AFFORD THE PROPERTY, YOU COULD ALWAYS DO YOUR BEST TO APPLY FOR GRANTS AND GET THOSE REMAINING FUNDS THAT YOU NEED.
IS THERE A MINIMUM, WHAT'S CALLED OPEN SPACE? IS THERE ONE ACRE, FIVE ACRES CONTIGUOUS DEFINE OPEN SPACE? UH, OPEN SPACE IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AND PERMANENTLY PROTECTED WITH A COVENANT OR AN EASEMENT OR, UH, SOME OTHER, THERE'S NO SIZE RESTRICTION.
IF MY PLACE JUST SITS ON AN EGG OR BURN DOWN TOMORROW AND THERE WAS NOTHING LEFT, COULD YOU PURCHASE THAT? OR JUST EVERY MUNICIPALITY HAS TO ADOPT CRITERIA OR HAVE THAT CRITERIA IN THEIR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OR IN THEIR PARKS RECREATION OPEN PLACE.
SO THAT CRITERIA WOULD INFORM YOUR TOWNSHIP'S DECISIONS AND YOUR OPEN SPACE COMMITTEE'S DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT OPEN SPACE THEY FIND VALUABLE.
IT MIGHT HAVE MORE TO DO WITH HABITAT OR HAVING A SPACE WHERE ANGLERS CAN FISH.
SO IT MIGHT NOT NEED TO BE, THAT'S A, THAT'S A SPECIFIC ONE WHERE SOMETIMES A MUNICIPALITY REALLY WANTS THAT, BUT THAT SPACE IS QUITE SMALL.
YOU KNOW, YOU JUST NEED A SPOT FOR ANGLERS TO PULL OVER AND HAVE ACCESS TO THE CREEK THERE.
AND THAT GETS DETERMINED BY YOUR AFTER, AFTER THE REFERENDUM WOULD GO THROUGH.
WELL, YOU, I BELIEVE YOU ALREADY HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND A PARKS RECREATION AND OPEN SPACE PLAN.
SO YOU MIGHT HAVE THAT CRITERIA IN PLACE ALREADY READY TO GO WITHOUT NUMBERS ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
WELL, IF, IF, IF YOU LOOK AT THE OFFICIAL MAP AND THE WORK THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS DONE OVER THE LAST SIX MONTHS OR SO, THEY IDENTIFIED THROUGH THE OFFICIAL MAP A LOT OF THE OPEN SPACES THAT WERE ALSO COINCIDENTAL WITH WHAT THE NATURAL LANDS TRUST DEVELOPED.
SO WE HAVE AN OFFICIAL MAP THAT WE'LL BE ADOPTING HOPEFULLY IN DECEMBER 1ST THAT IDENTIFIES OPEN SPACE TRAFFIC, TRAFFIC IMPROVEMENT PLANS, TRAILS, A LOT OF THAT FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
I GUESS THAT WOULD UP FRONT BEFORE DECIDE.
IT'S BEEN ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA ALMOST EVERY MONTH FOR THE PAST SIX MONTHS.
SO I, I'M SORRY, I THAT'S FINE.
AND THERE'S NUMBERS TAGGED NOT IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH THE PROPERTY COSTS, BECAUSE THAT'S AN INDIVIDUAL NEGOTIATION BETWEEN THE PROPERTY OWNER IN THE TOWNSHIP.
BUT THERE'S APPRAISED VALUES, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THOSE.
I MEAN, BECAUSE WE DON'T GET AN APPRAISAL UNTIL WE REALIZE A LANDOWNER WANTS TO SELL US A PIECE OF PROPERTY.
BUT YOU DO HAVE APPRAISAL ON THE BOOKS NOW FOR, NO, I DON'T HAVE AN APPRAISAL ON YOUR HOUSE.
I DON'T HAVE AN APPRAISAL ON MY HOUSE.
I DON'T HAVE AN APPRAISAL ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY UNLESS THAT PROPERTY OWNER HAS COME TO US AND SAID, I'M INTERESTED IN SELLING.
WHAT'S THE FIRST STEP? AREN'T THE TAXES BASED ON YOUR APPRAISAL ASSESSMENTS THAT ASSESSMENT? SO THE, THE ASSESSED VALUE IS THE ASSESSMENT IS DONE EVERY SO MANY YEARS.
UH, IT'S USUALLY LESS THAN THE MARKET VALUE OF, OF YOUR HOME.
THIS IS WHY WE'RE HERE TO, UH, MAKE SURE WE ALL HAVE A SHARED LANGUAGE TO TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS.
UM, NEXT ON THE LIST IS GEORGE PATTON.
UH, QUESTIONS WERE ALREADY A ASKED EARLIER.
UM, NEXT IN THE LIST IS KEN HUGHES, AND I'M JUST GONNA SAY, HERE'S, HERE'S THE PODIUM.
I, UH, HAVE LIVED IN THE TOWNSHIP FOR ABOUT 45 YEARS, THREE DIFFERENT PROPERTIES.
I'M ALSO A PROFESSIONAL LAND PLANNER.
I WORKED FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, SEVERAL DECADES.
UM, I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A BIG ADVOCATE OF OPEN SPACE.
UH, I WAS DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THE OPEN SPACE PROGRAM WHEN IT WAS FIRST ESTABLISHED IN THE FIRST FEW DECADES OF IT.
UH, IF MONTGOMERY COUNTY DID NOT TAKE THE INITIATIVE WAY BACK IN THE 1990S AND, UH, GET THAT OPEN SPACE PROGRAM UNDERWAY, UH, AND THEN CONTINUE IT AND LET IT GROW AND EXPAND OVER THE YEARS, UH, THERE WOULD NOT BE THE OPEN SPACE THERE IS IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
BUT ANYWHERE IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY, THERE WOULD NOT BE THE TRAILS THAT THE COUNTY HAS OR THE TOWNSHIP HAS.
UH, IT, THIS WILL PROVIDE A LOT OF GOOD FUNDING TO MATCH.
THIS IS MADE CLEAR ALREADY MATCHING FUNDS TO GET OTHER STATE AND COUNTY FUNDS.
THIS WAS A BENEFIT TO THE TOWNSHIP.
YOU CAN TELL FROM THE COLOR OF MY HAIR, I'M NOT GONNA BENEFIT FROM THIS OVER MANY DECADES FROM NOW.
UH, I DON'T HAVE ANY KIDS OR GRANDKIDS THAT
[01:25:01]
LIVE LOCALLY, BUT THEY LIVE IN OTHER LOCATIONS.I'M NOT GONNA PERSONALLY BENEFIT FROM IT.
MY FAMILY WON'T PERSONALLY BENEFIT FROM IT, BUT I THINK IT IS A GOOD DEAL FOR THE RESIDENTS OF THIS TOWNSHIP NOW AND IN THE FUTURE.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING YOUR PRESENTATION, THE TOWNSHIP.
THANK YOU FOR PRESENTING THIS.
UM, AND FIRST OF ALL, I'M GONNA SAY I'M DEFINITELY IN SUPPORT OF THIS.
UM, I'VE LIVED IN THE TOWNSHIP ALSO 45 YEARS.
WE'VE WORKED TOGETHER, UM, NOT ON THE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT IN OTHER CAPACITIES.
AND I TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY SUPPORT THIS.
BUT ONE OF MY QUESTIONS IS, AND THIS MIGHT BE TOTALLY STUPID ON MY PART, BUT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO EXPLAIN WHAT A CONSERVATION EASEMENT IS.
WHAT DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS ARE YOU, YOU, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, THE, THE LANDOWNER SELLS THEIR DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS BECAUSE I THINK FOR THE COMMON EVERYDAY PERSON, THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.
I APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING AND I VOTE THAT, YEAH, I GUESS WE HAVE BEEN DEMANDING AROUND CONSERVATION EASEMENTS.
MAYBE SOME EXPLANATION IS AN ORDER.
UM, A CONSERVATION EASEMENT IS A WAY THAT A PRIVATE LANDOWNER CAN PROTECT THEIR PROPERTIES.
UM, AND, AND BASICALLY IT'S GIVING UP THE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS OF A PROPERTY.
YOU KNOW, THE, A PROPERTY OWNER WHO HAS A HUNDRED ACRE FARM, YOU KNOW, HAS THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP IT ACCORDING TO THE ZONING.
SO, YOU KNOW, IN, IN THEORY, YOU KNOW, THE A HUNDRED ACRE FARM WITH TWO ACRE ZONING CAN HAVE 50 HOUSES ON IT.
WELL, A CONSERVATION EASEMENT IS A WAY OF, OF, OF, OF REDUCING THAT TO THE HOPEFULLY ID IDEALLY FOR, TO THE ONE HOUSE THAT ALREADY EXISTS.
UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THE, THOSE, THOSE 49 DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS HAVE A FINANCIAL VALUE.
UM, AND, AND THAT FINANCIAL VALUE IS ARRANGED THROUGH APPRAISAL.
AND, AND BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, WE GO TO AN APPRAISER AND SAY, WELL, HOW MUCH IS THE, IS THE, IS THE FARM WORTH WITH, WITH ALL OF THE RIGHTS, INCLUDING ALL THE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS? AND THEN, AND THEN THE SECONDARILY, HOW MUCH IS THE FARM WORTH WITH NO DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS LEFT? AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO IS, IS, IS THE VALUE OF THE CONSERVATION EASEMENT OR THE VALUE OF THE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS? YOU KNOW, THOSE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS CAN BE DONATED.
AND OBVIOUSLY NATURAL LANDS IS A CHARITY AND THE OTHER CONSERVATION ORGANIZATIONS AND CHARITY, THE, THE ADVANTAGE OF PASSING OF REFERENDUM IS, IS THAT, THAT YOU HAVE SOME, YOU HAVE FUNDING THAT CAN BUY THOSE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS.
UM, AND IDEALLY THOSE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS, YOU KNOW, ARE NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, THE TOWNSHIP ALL BY THEMSELVES.
YOU APPLY FOR GRANTS FOR THE, FOR THE COUNTY, MAYBE THE STATE OR EVEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
UM, AND THEN, AND SO THE FARM STAYS PERMANENTLY PROTECTED.
THE LANDOWNER THAT OWNS THE FARM STILL PAYS THE TAXES ON THE FARM.
UH, THEY STILL HAVE, YOU KNOW, ALL THE RIGHTS OF OWNERSHIP OTHER THAN THEY CAN'T DEVELOP IT ANYMORE.
OKAY, I THINK I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION.
WHAT'S THE ROLE OF THE OH OH, THE, THE OTHER, THE OTHER THING, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CONSERVATION EASEMENT AND, AND THE DEED RESTRICTION IS, IS THAT WHEN NATURAL LAND HOLDS A CONSERVATION EASEMENT, AND WE HOLD ABOUT 450 RIGHT NOW, WE MONITOR AND, AND ENFORCE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE PROPERTIES EVERY SINGLE YEAR TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RESTRICTIONS THAT WERE AGREED TO STAY IN PLACE.
AND, AND, YOU KNOW, DEED RESTRICTION DOESN'T DO THAT.
UM, AND THAT'S WHY WITH THE DEED RESTRICTION, THERE'S NO PURCHASE OF THE DEED RESTRICTION, BUT THERE CAN BE A PURCHASE OF THE DON RIGHTS FOR A CONSERVATION EASEMENT.
UH, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, UH, ON MY LIST AT LEAST, UM, MARLENE LASKA, MY QUESTION IS, WHY HAVE YOU NOT CONSIDERED OSR UH, R ONE OR OSR TWO, UM, ZONING BECAUSE OF THEY, THEY HAVE 50%, UH, IN THE CODE RIGHT
[01:30:01]
NOW, UM, CAN, CAN GO TO OPEN SPACE.SO YOU STILL GET ALL THE BENEFIT AND YOU REALIZE THAT, UH, DEVELOPMENT IS, IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
SO, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT, YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST GO AHEAD AND TAKE YOUR 50% AND YOU KNOW, IT, IT IS AN ALTERNATIVE.
SO, UH, AT NATURAL LANDS, WE LIKE TO SAY PRESERVE THE BEST AND ZONE THE REST.
UM, WE WERE TALKING EARLIER ABOUT CRAY VALLEY FARM AND BRICO FARM.
THOSE WOULD NOT BE THE MAGNIFICENT PLACES THAT THEY ARE.
IF THEY WERE 50% DEVELOPED, THEY WOULD BE VERY DIFFERENT PLACES.
UM, IT'S ALSO BASED ON WHAT YOUR COMMUNITY NEEDS THAT'S IN YOUR PARKS AND RECREATION PLAN.
UM, THE, THE LAND THAT'S TYPICALLY SET ASIDE IN SUBDIVISIONS MIGHT BE STEEP OR WET.
IT MIGHT NOT BE AVAILABLE FOR SOCCER PRACTICE EVERY WEEK FOR, FOR INSTANCE.
SO, UM, IT'S, IT'S GOTTA BE, YOU'VE GOTTA HAVE SORT OF DESIGN STANDARDS FOR YOUR OPEN SPACE THAT SET IT UP IN A WAY THAT THE RESIDENTS, UM, WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AVAILABLE TO THEM.
UM, YOU KNOW, I I WOULD JUST ADD SOMETHING TO THAT.
UH, YOU KNOW, BILL TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES OR ECOSYSTEM SERVICES, WHATEVER TERM, UH, YOU'RE USED TO.
UM, THE OTHER PART OF THAT IS IF, IF YOU HAVE A SPACE THAT'S, LET'S JUST SAY IT'S A HUNDRED ACRES AND, AND YOU SCATTER IN HOUSES AT 50% AND YOU, YOU CARVE OUT THE, THE, THE BEST CORRIDORS TO MAINTAIN MOVEMENT, YOU CAN DO A REALLY, A DECENT JOB TO SUPPORT ECOSYSTEMS. THAT'S WHY WE SAY ZONE THE REST IN THOSE AREAS WHERE IT'S MOST APPROPRIATE TO DO THAT, THAT'S A GOOD THING TO DO.
HOWEVER, THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HIT THE, THE VARIETY OF HABITATS AND, AND NICHES THAT THE VARIETY OF SPECIES THAT DEPEND ON THESE ECOSYSTEMS REALLY DEPEND ON, I MEAN, CRYSTAL TALKED A LOT ABOUT THIS, THAT WE, WE, WE THINK ABOUT THESE CHARISMATIC SPECIES LIKE THE DEER THAT MOVE ACROSS OUR YARDS, AND OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE, THEY'RE DOING PRETTY WELL AS FAR AS BEING ABLE TO PROPAGATE AND, AND MAINTAIN AND INCREASE THEIR POPULATIONS.
THAT DOESN'T, THERE'S MANY, MANY, MANY SPECIES OUT THERE, PLANT, ANIMAL AND OTHERWISE THAT REQUIRE A LOT OF DIFFERENT HABITATS THAT PROVIDE A LOT OF US BENEFITS.
AND IF WE JUST KIND OF SCATTER EVENLY ACROSS THE LANDSCAPE, A BUNCH OF HOUSES, YOU LOSE A LOT OF THAT HABITAT THAT WE, ONE EXAMPLE WOULD BE INTERIOR HABITAT SPACE.
AND SO INTERIOR FOREST, THERE'S CORE FOREST THAT HAS TO BE A CERTAIN DISTANCE FROM, UM, FROM OTHER TYPES OF DEVELOPMENT TO PROVIDE HABITAT SPACES.
SO THAT'S KIND OF A GENERAL EXAMPLE, BUT THAT'S WHY YOU NEED A VARIETY OF SPACES AVAILABLE TO REALLY HIT THAT SUITE OF REQUIREMENTS THAT AN ECOSYSTEM NEEDS TO PROVIDE.
MANY OF THE BENEFITS THAT MANY OF US GET FROM GOING OUT TO OPEN SPACE AND WATCHING BIRDS, MANY BIRDS REQUIRE INTERIOR FOREST.
UM, AND IF WE LOST THAT, THEN WE WOULD LOSE, UH, THOSE SPECIES AS WELL.
SO THAT'S PART OF THE, PART OF THE, THROW MYSELF IN THERE.
UH, KYLE MENTIONED, UH, SHARED VOCABULARY OR SHARED LANGUAGE.
AND SO I'M BEING, THE PEDANTIC THAT I AM AND PICKY IS THAT THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN APPRAISED VALUE AND ASSESSED VALUE.
YOUR TAXES ARE BASED ON THE ASSESSED VALUE.
THE STATE HAS NOT DONE A REASSESSMENT, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG APPRAISED VALUE IS APPRAISED AT HIGHEST AND BEST USE PARK HOUSE WAS APPRAISED AT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 50 AND $80 MILLION.
THERE WAS NO WAY THIS TOWNSHIP WAS GOING TO BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH THAT KIND OF MONEY.
APPRAISAL IS AT HIGHEST BEST USE, AND THAT MEANS DEVELOPED.
IT DOES NOT MEAN UNDEVELOPED LAND, IT DOES NOT MEAN FARMLAND.
IT DOES NOT MEAN FORESTED LAND MEADOWS OR ANYTHING ELSE LIKE THAT.
IT MEANS DEVELOPED HOUSES OR INDUSTRY.
THE TOWNSHIP CANNOT PAY A PENNY MORE THAN APPRAISED VALUE.
IF YOU HAVE A PIECE OF LAND YOU WANNA SELL FOR A MILLION DOLLARS AND THAT'S ITS APPRAISAL AND YOU'RE WILLING TO SELL IT TO THE TOWNSHIP FOR A MILLION DOLLARS, GREAT, WE HAVE A DEAL.
BUT IF YOU WANNA MAKE MORE MONEY THAN THAT, THE DEVELOPERS WILL COME IN AND GIVE YOU FAR MORE MONEY THAN THAT.
JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THE LANGUAGE.
[01:35:01]
SPACE BY DEFINITION IS OWNED AND MAINTAINED BY GOVERNMENTAL AUTHORITY, SUCH AS THE STATE, THE COUNTY OF TOWNSHIP OR BOROUGH.IF IT IS IN PRIVATE HANDS AND MERELY UNDEVELOPED, IT IS NOT OPEN SPACE.
UM, IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT HASN'T HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK THAT HAS SOMETHING THAT THEY'D LIKE TO SAY? YEAH, COME ON.
I JUST HAVE A POINT OF, UM, CLARITY.
WHEN YOU SAID, UH, WHEN YOU WERE SPEAKING, UH, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT THE TAX BASE COULD RISE BECAUSE OF INFLATED VALUES.
IS THAT, IS, DID YOU MEAN BY INFLATED APPRAISED VALUES OR APP ED? UM, OR BY NEW DEVELOPMENT BEING ASSESSED HIGHER BECAUSE OF ITS PROXIMITY TO OPEN SPACE.
JUST WANT TO GET CLARITY ON THAT.
WHEN I TALK, YOU'RE SAYING WHEN I SAID THAT YOU COULD HAVE INCREASED, YOU'RE SAYING WHEN I WAS TALKING ABOUT INCREASED TAX REVENUES, THAT COMES FROM HIGHER, UH, HOUSING VALUES.
AND YOU'RE, I'M SORRY, SAY IT AGAIN.
I JUST WANTED CLARITY THAT THAT IS WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, THAT HOUSING VALUE, WE WILL SEE INCREASED TAX REVENUE AS A TOWNSHIP BECAUSE OF HIGHER HOUSING VALUES.
YEAH, IF YOU YES, I THINK IT WOULD REQUIRE, IT WOULD REQUIRE A REASSESSMENT, I GUESS.
THAT'S IS WHY I THINK IT'S, IT'S A GOOD POINT TO THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS THE LAST THREE ASSESSMENT WAS IN 96, SO THE CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING ARE PRETTY MUCH ZERO.
I THOUGHT THE SAME THING WHEN I WAS PREPARING AND SAYING IT, BUT THAT'S, I'M GLAD YOU CLARIFIED THAT.
AND, UM, I THINK THAT THE LAST STATEMENT ABOUT, UM, THE FACT THAT WE WOULD NEED TO OUTBID A DEVELOPER BY, OR A DEVELOPER COULD OUTBID US BY A DOLLAR PROVES THE POINT OF WHY WE SHOULD VOTE.
NO, WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THE MONEY.
IF THE DEVELOPER WANTS IT, THEY'RE GONNA BUY IT AND WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO WITH IT? WE'RE ALL JUST GONNA PAY.
AND I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S RICH THAT PEOPLE THROW AROUND THAT A HUNDRED DOLLARS IS NOTHING.
A HUNDRED, $300 IS, IS NOTHING.
IT'S SOMETHING, IT MAY NOT BE TO EVERYBODY, BUT WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA TAX OUT LONG TERM RESIDENTS AND I THINK WE NEED TO REALIZE THAT.
WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO WITH THAT MONEY? WE CAN'T BUY ANYTHING.
IT WAS JUST STATED THAT WE'RE GONNA GET OUTBID IF IT'S, IF IT'S WORTH A SAVING.
SO I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT.
SAY ANYTHING? UM, I'M NOT SURE THERE WAS A QUESTION THERE, BUT I'D HAVE TO POINT OUT LAST STATEMENT.
UM, I'D HAVE TO POINT OUT THAT NATURAL LANDS WOULDN'T BE SUCCESSFUL IF LANDOWNERS WEREN'T WILLING TO BUY FOR APPRAISED OR SELL OR APPRAISED VALUE.
UM, YES IT IS, RIGHT? IF, IF A LANDOWNER, IF ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS, IS MONEY, A DEVELOPER COULD PROBABLY PAY A DOLLAR MORE THAN THAN THE APPRAISED VALUE.
BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, IS THAT IN THE MAJORITY OF INSTANCES THAT, THAT I WORK WITH, ESPECIALLY WITH FAMILIES, THEY'D RATHER SEE AS LONG AS THERE'S A FAIR AND EQUITABLE PURCHASE PRICE BEING PAID, THEY'D RATHER SEE THEIR FARM PROTECTED THAN DEVELOPED.
THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT QUESTIONS.
UM, ANYBODY ELSE HAVE SOMETHING THAT THEY'D LIKE TO SAY TODAY? ALRIGHT.
I I JUST WANT TO SAY AN ALTERNATIVE TO, TO PROVIDE A ALTERNATIVE, UH, TO, TO PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE FOR INCREASING OUR TAXES.
WELL, UH, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT.
OF COURSE, EVERYBODY, UH, HAS TO CONSIDER THAT.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU ALL TO THE TOWNSHIP WEBSITE, EVEN THOUGH THAT THE, WE APOLOGIZE FOR A TYPO IN HERE, UH, FOR THE MILLAGE, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S ON US.
UM, THAT WAS, BUT THE TOWNSHIP'S WEBSITE HAS THESE NUMBERS CORRECT.
AND HAS THE, HAS THE CALCULATOR FOR REAL ESTATE TAXES AND FOR EARNED INCOME, UH, TAXES.
I ENCOURAGE YOU TO, TO, UM, TAKE A MOMENT, PUT YOUR OWN ASSESSED VALUE IN, PUT
[01:40:01]
YOUR OWN, UH, PROPERTY TAX, VALUE IT, UH, YOUR OWN INCOME TAX IN, AND GET A FEEL FOR WHAT THAT NUMBER IS.IT MIGHT NOT BE A HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR YOU, IT MIGHT BE LESS.
UM, I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S NOTHING.
UH, YOU KNOW, I, YOU KNOW, I PUT MY KID IN A NEW DAYCARE THIS MONTH AND I HAD TO CANCEL SUBSCRIPTIONS TO THINGS TO BE ABLE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
I UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S LIKE TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THESE THINGS, AND I'M NOT ADVOCATING FOR ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR.
I'M JUST SAYING THAT, THAT, THAT TO MAKE AN INDIVIDUAL DECISION, I'D ENCOURAGE YOU TO GO ON THE WEBSITE, USE THE FIGURES AND ACTUALLY CALCULATE SOMETHING.
UM, THE TOWNSHIP'S WEBSITE IS ACTUALLY INCORRECT.
WITH THE AVERAGE ASSESSED VALUE OF HOMES, IT HAS THEM AT A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS.
AND THAT WAS THE EXAMPLE USED AT THE SEPTEMBER MEETING ALSO, WHICH I WAS SHOCKED BECAUSE I POKED AROUND IN THE COUNTY PROPERTY RECORDS.
I FOUND ONE PROPERTY IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT THE ASSESSMENT WAS 511,000.
AND, UM, WHATEVER THE HIGHLAND ONE IS WHERE, UM, BACK ON HASSEN ROAD, THOSE WERE ALL UNDER $500,000.
SO DO YOU STILL HAVE THE CALCULATOR AND YOU PUT IN YOUR OWN ASSESSED VALUE? NO, I KNOW THAT, I'M JUST SAYING THE TOWNSHIP'S EXAMPLE IS INCORRECT.
SO IF 190 THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S BETTER FOR PEOPLE, BUT, YOU KNOW, UM, SURE, SURE.
BUT, BUT THE MILLAGE, THE MILLAGE ON THE TOWNSHIP SITE WAS CORRECT.
AND THEIR ASSESSED VALUE OF PROPERTY WAS INCORRECT.
SO, SO YEAH, I, I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR, OUR, OUR WONDERFUL GUESTS HERE TONIGHT WHO COMING UP EVENING.
THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR COMING.
IT'S REALLY MOTIVATING FOR US WITH NATURAL LANDS TO HEAR PEOPLE'S CONCERNS, QUESTIONS, LOVES ABOUT NATURAL LAND.
UH, I'VE ENJOYED MY EVENING WITH YOU ALL.