* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. YOU WANNA GET [00:00:01] STARTED? YEP. WELL, WE CAN WAIT A COUPLE MORE MINUTES FOR KENNEDY. WE CAN GET STARTED. GO AHEAD, JUDGE. CALLING TO ORDER. NICE TO ORDER. UH, I'M CALLED TO ORDER [CALL TO ORDER / MOTION TO APPROVE THE OCTOBER 15, 2025 AGENDA] THE MEETING. UM, I DO NEED A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA. I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE AGENDA IS WRITTEN. AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALL RIGHT. UH, WE DON'T HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS, BUT WE CAN HOLD THAT IN CASE SOMEONE ELSE SHOWS UP. APPROVAL [APPROVAL OF MINUTES] OF MINUTES FROM THE JULY 16TH MEETING, IF WE REMEMBER BACK THAT FAR. I REREAD THESE RIGHT BEFORE THE MEETING. DID YOU SEND OUT THE RESOLUTION TO I DID NOT. I INCLUDED THEM WITH THIS PACKET AND WE'LL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE. OKAY. YES, I DID FORGET TO DO THAT. AND AS I WAS PUTTING TOGETHER THIS AGENDA, YOU WERE REREADING THIS AS I WAS REREADING THIS AND PUTTING TOGETHER THIS AGENDA. IT'LL ALL MAKE SENSE IN A LITTLE BIT. YEAH. DO APPROVE. ALRIGHT, SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? ALL RIGHT. SO [2. Review of EAC Efforts / Plan of Action for 2026] THE DISCUSSION ITEM REALLY ARE, WHAT I DID IS I WENT THROUGH ALL OF OUR OLD MEETINGS FOR THE PAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS. PULLED OUT EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE STARTED AND NOTHING THAT WE FINISHED BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T FINISHED ANYTHING. OH MY GOD. SO, BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA HAVE THIS MEETING IN A LITTLE BIT, AND I FIGURED WE'D HAVE SOME DISCUSSION. WE HAVEN'T READ THE MEETING AFTER THIS AND I DIDN'T KNOW HOW MUCH DISCUSSION TIME WE WOULD'VE. WHAT I'VE DONE IS I'VE SORT OF PULLED OUT LIKE THE MUNICIPAL ORDINANCES, THE STREAM NAMING INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE. UM, SOME OTHER, UH, TREE COVERAGES OR TREE ORDINANCES, SORT OF THE STUFF WE SORT OF STARTED WITH. WE CAN ALWAYS PULL, I CAN ALWAYS PULL TOGETHER MORE INFORMATION. I DIDN'T WANT THIS PACKET TO BE 200 PAGES LONG, BUT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS, OVER THE NEXT MONTH, BECAUSE WE'RE MEETING AGAIN IN NOVEMBER, IS ASK EACH OF YOU TO PICK ONE, PICK SOMETHING FOR NEXT YEAR AND MAKE THAT YOUR FOCUS. AND AT EVERY MEETING WE'LL CHECK IN. OKAY. LORI, WHERE ARE YOU WITH THE STREAM NAME? 'CAUSE YOU'RE ABOUT TO WRITE A STREAM NAME DOWN IS THE REASON WHY I SAY THAT I'M LOOKING FOR. BUT EITHER WAY, LET'S JUST SAY AS AN EXAMPLE, LORI SAYS, I'M GONNA PICK UP STREAM NAMING. SHE GOES THROUGH AND WE FIGURE IT OUT, AND THEN AT THE FIRST MEETING IN JANUARY, WE'LL COME UP WITH A STATUS UPDATE. IT'S, IT'S SIMILAR TO WHAT KEN DID AND HE'S NOT HERE TO ACCEPT THE APPLAUSE, BUT WHAT HE DID WITH BIRD TOWN WAS PHENOMENAL. AND, AND GETTING IT, MOVING THROUGH THE PROCESS, IT WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE PARKS THAN US. BUT STILL, IF WE CAN SORT OF DO THAT AND EVERYBODY SORT OF PICKS THEIR OWN THING AND JUST GETS IT DONE OR GETS IT TO A POINT TO WHERE THEY SAY IT'S NOT TENABLE, RIGHT? MAYBE IT'S THE PLASTIC BAG ORDINANCE AND, AND, 'CAUSE WE KIND OF GOT TO THAT POINT LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT IT, BUT MAYBE, MAYBE WE'RE NOT THERE YET. GET TO SOMEWHERE WHERE WE SAY IT'S JUST NOT TENABLE. I THINK THE ORDINANCE IS TOO WIELD, TOO UNWIELDY, OR WHATEVER IT IS. YOU COME BACK IN YOUR REPORT TO US AND WE MAKE A DECISION AS AN EAC TO SAY, WE'RE NOT GONNA MOVE THAT FORWARD. OR IF YOU DON'T LIKE ANYTHING IN HERE, WHICH IS PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE AND YOU WANT TO PICK SOMETHING ELSE OUT, IF IT'S A, UM, I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE THE MANURE AND, AND GRASS CUTTING AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THERE'S SOME OF THAT IN THERE. BUT IF THERE'S SOMETHING TANGENTIAL TO THAT, THAT YOU WANNA MOVE FORWARD, RIGHT. AND THAT YOU WANT THAT TO BE YOUR FOCUS, I THINK THAT'S A WAY THAT WE CAN FINALLY START CHECKING SOME BOXES THAT THE EAC HAS DONE SOME THINGS. AND I KNOW THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS WE'VE KIND OF BEEN WAY LATE JUST BECAUSE OF THE OPEN SPACE INITIATIVE. I STARTED THE OPEN THE PLASTIC BAG THING BACK TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO. SO I'LL TAKE THAT ONE. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO SEE, I'D LIKE, I STILL LIKE TO SEE IT, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO JUST, AND SO LET'S, LET'S MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR ON THIS. I WOULD LIKE TO JUST START WITH PLASTIC BAGS. JUST PLASTIC BAGS, NOT STRAWS, NOT, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST TOO MUCH. TOO MUCH. MY, MY MARCHING ORDERS, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM IS TO SAY, COME BACK WITH THE PROPOSAL, WHETHER IT'S AN OUTLINE OR JUST A QUICK PARAGRAPH OF EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT. OKAY. AND THEN WE'LL DECIDE IF THAT'S THE DIRECTION. IF THAT MEANS THAT I NEED TO DO SOME TECHNICAL WRITING OF A ZONING ORDINANCE OF A, OF AN ORDINANCE OR SUE NEEDS TO DO SOME RESEARCH ON, ON THE PARK SIDE OF IT, OR THE TRAIL SIDE OF IT AND SOME OF THE OTHER STUFF, THEN THAT'S WHAT WE'LL DO FROM AN ASSISTANCE STANDPOINT. BUT WE WANT SORT OF ARAI, I GUESS IS A LACK OF A BETTER TERM, WHICH IS SORT OF A, A BRIEF PARAGRAPH OF WHAT EXACTLY YOU WANT. AND THEN WE WILL GET, WE'LL MOVE IT FORWARD. WELL, AGAIN, I JUST THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GONNA BE CONTROVERSIAL 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, LORI EVEN THOUGHT SOME PEOPLE WERE GONNA BE HERE TONIGHT, BUT APPARENTLY THEY, I, I HEARD THEY HAD SOMETHING BETTER TO DO MCDONALD'S, SO SOMETHING SAW SOMETHING. UM, ANYWAY, BUT, UH, I JUST DON'T THINK YOU CAN BITE OFF MORE THAN THAT RIGHT NOW. [00:05:01] NOT, I'D LIKE TO SEE ALL PLASTIC ON MYSELF, BUT I, I DON'T THINK IT'S POSSIBLE AT THIS POINT. SO I'D LIKE TAKE BABY STEPS. SO I WILL WRITE THAT PARAGRAPH AND, AND GET THAT TO THE YEAH. OR EVEN JUST CHICKEN SCRATCH ON THE ORDINANCE THAT WE HAVE, WHATEVER. YEAH. I'LL FIGURE SOMETHING OUT. HOWEVER IT WORKS. YES. I'LL FIGURE SOMETHING. AND AGAIN, WE DON'T NEED TO DECIDE TODAY. RIGHT. CERTAINLY TAKE THE TIME. CAN WE GO THROUGH, I THINK THAT I JUST SAW 20 PAGES ON STREAM RENAMING. WHAT, WHAT IS THE TAKEAWAY ON THAT? YOU WEREN'T HERE FOR THAT. NO, I WASN'T HERE FOR ANY OF THIS. NO, YOU WERE. NO, NO. THE ORIGINAL ORIGINAL, WHAT WAS IT? 2013 2007. 2007. OH 2007. I WAS HERE. SO, UM, THERE WAS A WOMAN WHO RAN THE MINGO CREEK ASSOCIATION. MINGO CREEK. WHAT WAS HER NAME? GOD, I'M JUST, I LITERALLY COULD HAVE ASKED ME AN HOUR AGO. I'VE GOTTEN IT. AND I'VE ALICE ALICE, DID SHE PASS? NO, NO, NO. SHE MOVED TO TEXAS. SHE MOVED, MOVED OUTTA TOWNSHIP. YEAH. SHE GAVE US A LOT OF GOOD SIGNS. YEAH. YEAH. ACTUALLY. YEAH. AND, AND AS I WAS READING THE INFORMATION YOU SENT OUT, I SEE IN THIS EMAIL THIS WOMAN NAMED MARY DE ANGELIS MM-HMM . AND I, I THINK I MIGHT KNOW HER IF, IF IT'S THE SAME MARY DE ANGELIS AND MAYBE I COULD REACH OUT TO HER AND SAY, HEY, ARE YOU THE ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATION TEACHER THAT DRAFTED THIS OKAY. STREAM THING WITH ALICE. AND MAYBE SHE COULD COME AND TALK TO US AND SAY, HEY, HERE'S INSPIRE US. WELL, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE IDEA IS THAT IF, IF YOU ARE TAKING IT AS YOUR TASK, YOU DRIVE US FORWARD. HOWEVER YOU OKAY. SEE IT. WANT TO GO FORWARD. I MEAN, I, I ESSENTIALLY WHAT HAPPENED IS, IS ALICE WENT THROUGH AND SHE WAS A MANGO CREEK. SHE WOULD ORGANIZE CLEANUPS EVERY YEAR. AND MINGO CREEK ASSOCIATION, VERY, SHE LIVED OFF OF IT. VERY DRIVEN TO THAT. OKAY. IT GOT TO A POINT TO WHERE SHE'S A LITTLE BIT OLDER, SHE COULDN'T DO AS WELL ANYMORE. THE SIGNS ARE STILL UP IF YOU'RE OVER ON THAT SIDE OF THE TOWNSHIP. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN THEM OR NOT. IT'S OVER BY THE SCHOOL. I DON'T THINK SO. THE MINGO CREEK IS, WHEN YOU COME OUT OF, UM, YEAGER, YOU GONNA COME DOWN YEAGER AT DEAD ENDS AT LEWIS. YOU CAN GO THIS WAY TO THE 5, 6, 7 CENTER. YEAH. THIS WAY TO THE HIGH SCHOOL. I KNOW THAT AREA JUST A LITTLE. YEAH. THAT'S THE MANGO CREEK THAT YOU CROSS OVER. OKAY. IT WINDS FROM GENERALLY BEHIND THE SCHOOLS AND BUCK WALTER IN THAT AREA DOWN PAST WHERE I LIVE IN REBO, DOWN TO THE SCHOOL. OKAY. UM, NOT AN EXTREMELY LONG CREEK, BUT VERY BEAUTIFUL. UM, THERE'S SOME TRAILS ON THERE. THERE'S A, MOST PEOPLE LIVE ON, YOU KNOW, THEY BACK UP TO IT. SOME PEOPLE DUMP STUFF DOWN OVER THE HILL. I MEAN, IT'S A, IT'S A HUGE WATERSHED. IT DRAINS A HUGE PART OF THE TOWNSHIP. 'CAUSE ONCE YOU GET A LITTLE EAST OF THE MINGO CREEK WATERSHED, IT'S JUST ALL THE LITTLE STREAMS COMING DOWN THE BLACKROCK HILL UNTIL YOU GET TO THE PER CREEK. THAT, THAT WAS HER START. SHE, SHE STARTED WITH THEO CREEK AND THE MINGO CREEK ASSOCIATION. AND THEN SHE CAME TO THE TOWNSHIP IN THE LATE 2000 OH 7, 0 8 IN THAT AREA AND SAID, THERE'S A LOT OF STREETS THAT AREN'T NAMED OR STREAMS THAT AREN'T NAMED. I WOULD LIKE TO NAME THEM. AND SO WE, WE HAD AN OPEN SPACE COMMITTEE AT THE TIME AND THEY SAID, SURE, GO AHEAD. PREPARE SOMETHING. SHE PREPARED THIS. WE'VE MAPPED IT OUT ON, UM, IN GIS I'D HAVE TO FIND THAT FILE. I DON'T KNOW IF IT STILL EXISTS OR NOT, BUT TO WHAT SHE'S NAMED THEM. THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHERE THE NAMES CAME FROM AND HOW DID SHE PICK THEM VERSUS, YOU KNOW, SOME OTHER THINGS. SO IT WAS NEVER REALLY COMPLETE. AND THEN THEY OPENED SPACE COMMITTEE AT THAT TIME TO FELL APART AND THE PROJECT KIND OF DIED. I BROUGHT IT BACK TO THIS COMMITTEE SORT OF IN THE VERY BEGINNING. 'CAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS, YES, YOU DID A GREAT WAY TO KIND OF CHECK A RELATIVELY EASY BOX. BUT I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THE STREAM NAMES. WHAT PEOPLE SAID IN 2005 MIGHT BE OFFENSIVE TODAY OR MIGHT WANNA BE RECONSIDERED. IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU KIND OF HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT HER WORK, WHICH WE HAVE HERE. AND I THINK I HAVE THE ORIGINAL IN A BOX IN MY OFFICE. AND THEN TO MOVE THAT FORWARD TO SEE IF WE CAN DO THAT. TO BE PERFECTLY FRANK, WE'RE NOT EVEN REALLY SURE HOW WE GO ABOUT DOING THAT FROM A REGULATORY OR MAPPING STANDPOINT. BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE, THAT'S WHAT WE'D LIKE TO TACKLE AS WELL, TO MAKE IT ACTUALLY OFFICIAL VERSUS JUST US PUTTING IT. WHAT IS, WHAT IS, WHY, WHY, WHY DOES IT MATTER? I DON'T KNOW IF IT REALLY DOES MATTER TO BE PERFECTLY FRANK, BUT IT DOES. I I THINK ALICE'S POINT WAS TO HONOR THE PAST, HONOR THE INDIAN TRIBES IN THE AREA, SOME OF THE, THE INDIGENOUS NAMES OF THE AREA. UM, OKAY. IT WAS JUST SOMETHING SHE STARTED UP AND IT WAS AN INTERESTING PROJECT FOR THE EAC TOOL. IT'S A PRETTY, IT, IT, IT, IT DOESN'T MATTER. I MEAN, REALLY AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU PROBABLY AREN'T GONNA REMEMBER GONNA SAY THAT WATER OVER THERE. YEAH. BUT IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT, IT'S AN AWARENESS. JEFF. IT'S AN AWARENESS. NO, IT'S NOT AN A AWARE. I THINK IT, I LOOK AT IT, IT CAN BE, WE CAN KNOCK SOMETHING OUT PRETTY QUICKLY. I MEAN, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD, WHO'S KEEPING SCORE? WELL, WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING FOR ALMOST THREE YEARS. OKAY. YEAH. SO WE GOTTA, WE GOTTA GET A WIN. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. I HEAR YOU. WE CAN NEED A WIN AND THIS WOULD BE AN EASY WIN. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S GONNA OBJECT TO IT. YEAH. LIKE THE PLASTIC BAG OR [00:10:01] YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO, NO CUTTING GRASS ANYMORE. PEOPLE GONNA OBJECT TO THAT. BUT IF YOU WANT TO JUST SAY, HEY, LET'S GET A WIN, IT'S A WIN. OKAY. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WORTH ANYTHING, BUT I THINK AFTER THREE YEARS, I THINK A WIN WOULD BE NICE FOR THIS COMMITTEE TO PUT IT IN FRONT OF THE SUPERVISORS. NOTHING. OKAY. THERE'S NOTHING THAT I'M NOT SAYING. OKAY. WE HAVE TO PICK HER NAMES. OKAY. I GOT, I GOT IT. I'M JUST, I WAS JUST ASKING. NO, I UNDERSTAND. I MEAN, THE PER VALLEY WATERSHED ASSOCIATION WOULD TELL YOU THAT FROM AN ENVIRONMENTAL STANDPOINT, PEOPLE ARE NOW LIKE THINKING ABOUT, OH YEAH, THERE'S THE PERKIOMEN CREEK, THERE'S THIS RUN AND THAT RUN AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT, AND NOW IT'S, IT'S AN AWARENESS THAT, HEY, YEAH, WHEN I DUMPED THIS STUFF IN MY BACKYARD, IT'S THAT ROAD I, THAT LITTLE BRIDGE I DRIVE OVER EVERY DAY. THAT'S PART OF THIS WATERSHIP. IT'S RIGHT. SO, SO IT IT'S AN ENLIGHTENMENT THING. IT COULD TIE INTO POTENTIALLY SOME BROADER EDUCATION THAT WOULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT. WELL, I THINK IF ANYBODY'S DUMPING STUFF TODAY, STILL DUMPING STUFF IN THEIR BACKYARD, AND I'M NOT SAYING THEY'RE NOT, I KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE DO JUST LIKE, I JUST SAY, PEOPLE THROW TIRES IN O OVER AT, UH, BING. BINGO. YEAH. YEAH. THEY THROW TIRES DOWN. 'CAUSE THE GUY THAT LIVES THERE HAS TO CLEAN IT UP TIME. BUT I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK THAT PEOPLE KNOW THAT IF YOU'RE DUMPING SOME TOXIC STUFF, PAINT GASOLINE, THEY KNOW THAT'S WRONG. WELL, I, THEY KNOW THAT'S WRONG. THAT'S A SPECIFIC THING. DUMPING. I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT WELL, I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU, YOU ARE THE ONE MENTIONED POURING SOMETHING IN YOUR BACKYARD. SO I'M SAYING IF PEOPLE ARE, I THINK AWARE OF THAT, BUT I'M NOT SAYING THEY DON'T DO IT, BUT I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS IT'S WRONG. I, I THINK FROM A PLANNING STANDPOINT, IT DOES PROVIDE PEOPLE A SENSE OF PLACE. OH, I LIVE OFF THE TINDY CREEK. I LIVE OFF THE MAIN, I WOULD, IT'S, AND NOT ALL OF THEM HAVE NAMES. OH, I LIVE OFF, I LIVE OFF. THAT'S DRAINAGE CREEK. THAT SMELLS LIKE SEWAGE. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, A DIRTY WATER. WHAT YOU COULD MAYBE DO IS YOU COULD, YOU COULD GET LIKE A NEIGHBORHOOD RECOGNITION OR YOU COULD DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH IT. AND AS PART OF IT, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMEONE REACH OUT TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT THESE CREEKS ARE IN TO SAY, HEY, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO NAME IT? AND WHAT DO YOU DO WITH IT? THEM AND DO YOU YEAH. AND THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENS WHEN, AND THEN IT'S LIKE, WELL YOU COULD ALMOST HOST LIKE A NAMING COMPETITION OR SOMETHING. RIGHT. LIKE THAT. COOL. OKAY. ALRIGHT. I GOT IT. OKAY. ENOUGH. BILL, DID YOU WANT DO THE NAMING THING? BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE NAME? WELL, YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DECIDE NOW. , YOU CAN, IF YOU WANT TO. I MEAN, TOM JUMP ALL OVER THE PLACE. I'LL REACH OUT TO I I FINISH IT BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A GOOD PLACE. WELL WHAT I, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE BY NEXT MONTH IS, IS EVERYBODY TO SAY THIS, THIS IS MY PROJECT AND EVERYBODY CAN HELP EVERYBODY ELSE. I'M CERTAINLY NOT SAYING SILO IT AND RIGHT. DON'T HELP ANYBODY ELSE. BUT YOU CAN'T ADD THAT IDEAS. RIGHT. ABSOLUTELY. YOU CAN ADD IDEAS, BUT JUST, I WANT ONE PERSON SO THAT IN JANUARY AND THEN IN MARCH WHEN I PUT IT ON THE AGENDA, I CAN PUT STREAM NAMING UPDATE AND I DON'T HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING BEFOREHAND. EVEN IF IT'S LIKE WHAT MOST PEOPLE DO A WEEK BEFORE OR SOMETHING GO, OH CRAP, THAT'S ON THE, THAT'S ON THE AGENDA. WELL, LET ME FIX THIS AND LET ME SEE WHAT I CAN GET ON THERE. THAT'S ONE THING. BUT, SO WE CAN MOVE THE PROJECTS FORWARD AND WE HAVE SORT OF A SET AGENDA EVERY MONTH UNTIL WE KNOCK A PROJECT OFF AND THEN WE CAN PUT SOMETHING ELSE ON THERE. WELL, YOU KNOW, BILL, I, IT'S UP TO YOU IF YOU WANT TO TAKE IT. I MEAN, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE YOU CONTINUE ON WITH THIS MEADOW THING. YEAH, YEAH. NO, THAT'S THE ONE I, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S THE ONE I SAID I DIDN'T, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA TOO. BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EVEN START TO DO THAT. LIKE IF I'M LOOKING TO DO IT IN MY OWN YARD, WHY TO START? THAT'S THE ORDINANCE THING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT? OR IS THIS A DIFFERENT, WELL I THOUGHT THE MEADOW THING WAS SOMETHING IN PLACE OF GRASS CUT. YOU KNOW, YOU WANNA REPLACE, LET'S JUST GO THROUGH THIS REAL QUICK, BUT WE COULD JUST DO IT PAGE FLIP. OKAY. SO WE GOT, WE GOT GOT THROUGH. WE GOT THROUGH AND GO. RIGHT. OKAY. SO NOW WE'RE ON THE PLASTIC BAG OF ORDINANCE. RIGHT. SO THIS PLASTIC BAG ORDINANCE IS AN ORDINANCE THAT WOULD BE PROHIBITING PLASTIC BAGS. WELL THIS ONE SPECIFICALLY HAS MOST PLASTICS. THE ONE THAT WE WROTE. CORRECT. THE ONE THAT WE WROTE AND THE ONE THAT OUR SOLICITOR WENT THROUGH. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I'D LIKE TO, I I SEE. BUT I GOT, YOU'RE TAKE A NEW, I'M GONNA TAKE A DIFFERENT, YOU'RE GONNA TAKE A APPROACH. WE TOOK A VERY SMALLER SMALLER, YEAH. IF WE'RE GONNA DO IT, WE'RE GONNA GO GLOBAL AND WE, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THAT. OKAY. SO GREAT. SO THAT'S, AND IT DOESN'T PROHIBIT PLASTIC BAGS BECAUSE IF YOU BUY SOMETHING OUTSIDE THE TOWNSHIP, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A PLASTIC BAG. RIGHT. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT IT DOES, IT JUST DOESN'T WANT 'EM TO BE USED IN THIS STATUTE. YEAH. THERE ARE OTHER TOWNSHIPS THAT HAVE THAT IN. YEAH. OH YEAH. THAT'S WHERE WE STOLE THIS FROM, FROM AROUND US. FROM OTHER PEOPLE. OKAY. I THINK OTHER PLACES, UPPER MARIN TOWNSHIP, I THINK IT'S ONE I YOU THINK ABOUT THAT IS MEDIA. YOU KNOW, THINK, I MEAN WE HAVE SOME PRETTY BIG RETAIL THINGS GOING HERE. THINK ABOUT UPPER MARING TOWNSHIP. THAT'S SO THEY'VE KNOW THEY'VE GOT A, WELL SOME PEOPLE, LIKE I SAY, YOU KNOW, FIVE BELOW OBVIOUSLY WEGMANS, THEY'VE ALREADY STARTED DOING THIS. 'CAUSE THEY, THEY PROBABLY HAVE STORES. THEY PROBABLY HAVE IT AND THEY'RE MAKING A CORPORATE POLICY. IT'S EASIER. YEAH. JUST THE INTERNET DAY. THEY PROBABLY SAVE MONEY NOT BUYING THE BAGS PROBABLY TOO, YOU KNOW, PRODUCE JUNCTION PRODUCES SO [00:15:01] MUCH PLASTIC BAGS. WHAT I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN DOING ON THIS AND WHEN YOU COME BACK, I'LL BE HERE, BUT LIKE, I WOULD THINK EVEN STARTING WITH A SIGN OUTSIDE OF PRODUCE JUNCTION, THAT WAS VERY ENCOURAGING THAT SAID, HEY, UM, WE'D APPRECIATE IF YOU BROUGHT A BAG WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP YOUR GROCERY PRICES LOW AND UH, YOU KNOW, BRING, WELL, I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE EDUCATION. RIGHT. BUT IT'S LIKE A SIGN THAT IS ENCOURAGING. IT DOES NOT SAY WE ARE NO LONGER PROVIDING YOU WITH THE PLASTIC BAG, BUT IT SHAMES THEM A LITTLE BIT. THAT WOULD BE A GOOD, WHAT WAS THE, AT WEGMANS BEEN OUTSIDE THEIR STORE FOR SEVERAL MONTHS BEFORE THEY STOPPED. I DON'T KNOW. WHAT WAS IT? I DON'T . I KNOW KIMBERTON SAID WE'RE GONNA STOP DOING BAGS ALTOGETHER. THEY DON'T DO PAPER, PAPER PLASTIC. THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING. YOU HAVE TO BUY REUSABLE BAG LIKE WHAT YOU RAN INTO. AND I DON'T THINK THAT I'M IN FAVOR OF THAT. I THINK YOU, I THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO BUY BAG. YEAH. I DON'T THINK PAPER'S A BAD THING I DON'T LIKE, BUT I THINK THERE'S A WAY TO APPROACH IT. BUT PEOPLE ARE LIKE THE PAY FOR PAPER, THAT'S THE OTHER THING. RIGHT. SOME PLACES ARE CHARGING YOU WHAT A DIME FOR A BAG OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WAIT FOR A PAPER BAG OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. NO, NO. I, IT'S UM, THEY, THEY, THEY, THEY GET UPSET ABOUT IT. BUT I, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I FIVE SENSE YOU GOTTA BE ABLE TO HANDLE FIVE SENSE ALSO. IT'S LIKE, I THINK IT'S JUST THE PRINCIPLE, RIGHT? IT'S REALLY ABOUT THE BEHAVIOR CHANGE. YEAH. SO HOW DO YOU, IT'S BEHAVIOR CHANGE AND I, GOING THROUGH THIS OPEN SPACE THING, I MEAN THIS HAS BEEN LIKE FASCINATING BUT OH MY GOD, THE UPROAR. UM, I THINK IF WE WERE TO JUST COME OUT AND SAY THERE'S NO MORE PLASTIC BAGS. LIKE YOU WOULD HAVE A CATEGORY BAG. WELL THAT'S WHY I WANT TO START WITH AT LEAST PLASTIC. NOT ALL PLASTIC. WELL, NO, I KNOW, BUT EVEN, OH, YOU'RE RIGHT. MY WIFE IS, SHE'S GONNA LEAD THE CHARGE. I THINK EVEN STARTING WITH WE DON'T AGAINST YOU. YES. PERFECT. MY WIFE IS, THAT'S A SOLID. YEAH, SHE IS. LIKE I TOLD YOU, SHE SAID THANKS. I KNOW , I ALREADY DID IT. THAT THAT'S WHAT WE ORIGINALLY BROUGHT WITH THE DANDELIONS DIGITAL. THAT'S THIS SECTION HERE OF, OF THIS. LINDA ROONEY, OUR COMMUNICATIONS SPECIALIST CONSULTANT. I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT SHE IS, BUT SHE DOES THIS FOR, SHE DOES THAT FOR OTHER MUNICIPALITIES. IT WAS A YEAR PROCESS, BUT THEY WENT OUT AND THEY STARTED EDUCATING AND THEY STARTED DOING OTHER THINGS. I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO DO. SURE. THINK THAT'S PART OF WHAT MAYBE WE COME UP, PUT THE ORDINANCE DOWN. IT'S GETTING, IT'S GETTING PUBLIC FEEDBACK. IT'S HAVING EDUCATION IS CERTAINLY CUTTING OUT SIGNS. IT'S LIKE, WELL WHEN PEOPLE SAY TO ME, WELL, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANNA, I SAY, OKAY, THAT'S FINE. DRIVE DOWN 4 22 AND JUST LOOK IN THE TREES. THAT'S ALL YOU HAVE TO DO THERE. FLAGS EVERYWHERE OR THIS SIDE OF BRIDGE. WELL, YEAH, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THEY BLOW UP IN THE TREES THAT GET STOPPED EVERYBODY THAT THEY'RE GOOD USES OF OIL AND THAT'S NOT WHAT YES. SO ANYHOW, THATS MY ARGUMENT AGAINST PEOPLE WHEN THEY SAY WHY PEOPLE, FRANKLY, THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHERE PLASTIC COMES FROM. WELL, IN THE MICROPLASTICS, YES. IT'S IN EVERYTHING. RIGHT. AND THEY JUST, THEY DISINTEGRATE AND IT'S GOING INTO YOUR BODY MICROPLASTICS LIKE ONE, A CREDIT CARD AMOUNT LIKE ONCE A WEEK OR SOMETHING. AND I'M ON A WELL AND THERE ARE MICROPLASTICS IN MY WELL WATER. YEAH. THAT'S INCREDIBLE. YEAH. WELL ORIGINALLY LINDA HAD PUT IN SORT OF A PROPOSAL FOR US TO DO IT FOR HER TO DO FOR THAT MEDIA CAMPAIGN FOR US. RIGHT. THAT'S NOT GONNA BE IN THE BUDGET THIS YEAR. IT'S JUST NOT GONNA HAPPEN. HOW MUCH WAS IT? I DON'T REMEMBER. BUT IT, IT COULD BE $3 AND IT'S NOT GONNA BE IN THE BUDGET THIS YEAR. YEAH. TO BE PERFECTLY FRANK, IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. SO IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO DO AT THIS LEVEL. IF WE WANT TO DO ISSUES, WERE HAPPENING GREAT IDEAS, BUT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT A WAY THAT WE CAN DO IT HERE WITHOUT ADDING MORE COMMUNICATIONS TO US. I MEAN, SO IT'S A GRASSROOTS, PURELY GRASSROOTS MODEL. I MEAN, I'D BE, I'M HAPPY I FEEL PASSIONATELY ABOUT THIS ONE. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO WORK ON IT. YES, PLEASE. LET'S DO IT. WE DO. LET'S DO IT. IT SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY BIG ONE. SO IT IS A BIG ONE. AND IT'S, THERE'S A LOT OF ASPECTS TO IT. THERE IS EDUCATION, THERE IS UH, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU IMPLEMENT IT AND HOW DO YOU, YOU KNOW, ALL KINDS OF STUFF. SO THAT'S THE BIG PART. YEAH. IMPLEMENTATION'S A HUGE PART OF IT. BUSINESSES, YOU GOTTA GET THEM ON BOARD. YEAH. IT'S SO, SO IT, IT'S, BUT IT'S, IT, IT, WELL I AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD TRY TO DO. I THINK IT'S GOOD FOR ALL OF US. YES. YES. ALRIGHT, SO THEN THE NEXT ONE WOULD BE THE NATIVE PLANNING ORDINANCE I THINK WAS, WE, THESE ARE SOMEWHAT IN A, THE BRUSH WEEDS GRASS. YEAH. THIS IS BRUSH WEEDS AND GRASS. AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE TO DECIDE TODAY WHO'S DOING IT, BUT I KNOW THAT YOU HAD SORT OF SUGGESTED THAT AND PUT THAT IN AN EMAIL TO ME THIS WEEK. BILL ACTUALLY, BILL LIKES IT. UM, THEN THERE'S THE, WELL, I, I DON'T, I'M CONFUSED. IS THAT THE SAME AS THE MEADOW? YEAH, SLIGHTLY. IT, WELL THERE'S, THERE'S BRUSH, THERE'S, THERE'S, LAURIE WAS TALKING ABOUT MOWING STANDARDS AND WE MOW AND WENT OUT TO MOW. BUT THEN THERE'S ALSO BASIN AND YARD REPLANTING INTO MEADOW. RIGHT. I THOUGHT THAT WAS TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. IT IS KIND OF TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. OKAY. AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY, THAT'S HOW I, THAT'S HOW I UNDERSTOOD WHERE THEY COME TOGETHER. AND IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN, UH, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE ONE THAT WE WERE GOING TO PROPOSE TO PASS THE SUPERVISORS, BUT AT THE MEETING WHEN IT WAS DISCUSSED IN PUBLIC, ONE PERSON SHOWED UP AND SHE [00:20:01] SAID, HEY, YOU KNOW, I WAS READING THIS PROPOSED ORDINANCE AND WE'RE GOING BACKWARDS HERE 'CAUSE SHE WAS PRO NATIVE LANDSCAPE AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. AND THIS WAS ALMOST, I, THIS PROVIDE I'M LOOKING AT. BUT IT WAS ALMOST PUSHING BACK AGAINST ANYBODY WHO WAS CONSIDERING THAT TYPE OF PLANTING LANDSCAPE. SO, SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY ARE KIND OF MESHED AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT STRICTLY A NATIVE PLANT ORDINANCE WELL LOOK LIKE. YOU KNOW, THERE ARE GUIDELINES THAT WE ALREADY FOLLOW FROM DCNR THAT FOR PLANTING LISTS. AND WHEN A NEW DEVELOPMENT COMES IN, THEY HAVE TO STICK TO NATIVE PLANTS. THERE'S A BROAD DEFINITION OF, OF NATIVE PLANTS. DC NR DOES HAVE A LIST. WE, WE SORT OF POINT PEOPLE OUT LIST. WE HAVE A LIST THAT'S ANTIQUATED THAT'S ON THE BOOKS. BUT WE TEND TO, I TEND TO POINT PEOPLE TO DC NR AND THESE ARE ALL LANDSCAPE PLANS. THEY ARE LANDSCAPE PLANS, THE TREES, THE BUSHES, STUFF LIKE THAT. I KNOW OUR, OUR ENGINEER AND OUR LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTS THROUGH OUR ENGINEERING OFFICE, THAT'S OUR DIRECTION FROM THE TOWNSHIP IS KEEP IT AS NATIVE AS POSSIBLE. I UNDERSTAND THAT. MAYBE NOT ALWAYS, BUT THERE'S, THEY, THAT'S WHAT THEY TOO, THEY REVIEW ON, ON THE LANDSCAPING. UM, SOMETHING LIKE THIS WOULD, UH, CODIFY IT A LITTLE BIT MORE. MAYBE BRING IT TO AN AVERAGE HOMEOWNER WHEN THEY PUT IN A TREE THAT IT, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW YOU GET A LOT OF QUESTIONS. OH, I'D LIKE TO PUT OUR VID UP AND BRADFORD PEAR. YEAH. YEAH. THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THAT THEY WANT THAT PEOPLE WANNA PUT UP. AND YOU'RE LIKE, I DON'T HAVE ANY REGULATORY AUTHORITY TO TELL YOU NO, BUT HERE'S THE LIST WE'D LIKE YOU TO STICK TO. MAYBE WE NEED TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE. SO THAT WOULD BE, THAT'S PART OF THE EDUCATION PROCESS. RIGHT. THAT WOULD BE TWO SEPARATE ORDINANCES. YEAH. RIGHT. THAT WOULD BE TWO. AND I THINK IT SHOULD STAY TWO SEPARATE OR YEAH. AND THE GRASS CUTTING IS ONE THING. AND THEN THE, THE MEADOW AND YARD REPLANTING AND BASIN REPLANTING IS SOMETHING ELSE. I KNOW YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. AND OTHER NATIVE PLANTING MATERIALS FOR, 'CAUSE YOU HAD THE UM, SORT OF THE, THE MICRO AREAS YOU WANTED TO SORT OF LOOK AT THAT. I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT ANDERSON FARM PARK. LET'S MAKE THAT A THING. AND I DIDN'T PUT THAT IN HERE 'CAUSE IT WAS REALLY ONLY DISCUSSION. BUT LET'S GET THAT AND MAKE THAT ONE OF OUR FIVE OR SIX THINGS WE ACCOMPLISHED NEXT YEAR. OKAY. AMAZING. AND WHAT IS, I LOST YOU LOST, WHAT IS IT? SINKHOLE THAT IS NOT SINKHOLE, BUT OUT THERE BETWEEN THE, THE TWO DIFFERENT PARKING LOTS. YEAH. I THINK YOU HAVE A SMALL RETENTION POND THAT YEAH. IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE LOW. IT IS THOUGH. IT IS. I KNOW. BUT IT DOESN'T NEED TO. SO WHAT ARE YOU SAYING YOU WANT ACCOMPLISH? I, I MISSED. WELL I THINK THE IDEA IS WE WANNA ACCOMPLISH FIVE TO SIX THINGS NEXT YEAR. WHETHER THAT'S, WELL YOU JUST MENTIONED WITH HER WITH, WITH REPLANTING BASINS AND, AND SORT OF MICRO MICROS A BAD TERM, BUT SMALLER AREAS OF REPLANTING THINGS. YOU BROUGHT US A VIDEO THAT WAS ABOUT A SMALL AREA, PROBABLY NOT MUCH BIGGER THAN THIS TABLE THAT SOMEBODY REPLANTED AND PUT IN A POLLINATOR GARDEN MM-HMM . AND MOVE THAT FORWARD. AND HOW CAN WE GET THAT TO PEOPLE SO THAT THEY LEARN TO DO THAT. AND WHERE CAN WE DO AN EXAMPLE OF IT AND HOW DO WE GET MONEY TO DO AN EXAMPLE OF IT, WHETHER THAT'S THROUGH A GRANT OR WHATEVER, SO THAT MAYBE NEXT YEAR WE CAN PLANT THAT. SO WE CAN START SAYING, HERE'S WHAT WE'VE DONE, HERE'S WHAT WE'D LIKE YOU TO START DOING. PUT UP LITTLE SIGNS AND SAY WHAT WAS DONE. SURE. SOMEWHERE ON THE WEBSITE, WE HAVE A TON OF ROOM ON THE WEBSITE. , MORE PEOPLE ARE GONNA SEE ON THE WEBSITE UNFORTUNATELY THAN WALKING THROUGH THE PARK. NOTHING PERSONAL , WE, NO OFFENSE TAKEN. SO THIS ORDER KIND OF GOT A LITTLE MESSED UP. I DON'T KNOW WHAT CIVIC PLUS DID TO ME, BUT IT WENT PLANTING GUIDE THEN BACK TO PLASTICS. YEAH. THEN BACK TO, UM, IT'S THE TWO ORDINANCES FROM UPPER MARION AND THE OURS BACK TO BACK. YEAH. YEAH. SO, UM, THAT'S GENERALLY IT. I I IF BY NEXT MONTH YOU COULD COME IN AND WE CAN HAVE A MEETING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHERE, WHAT YOU WANNA DO AND MOVE FORWARD. IF YOU TWO WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THE DIFFERENT ROLES ARE, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE PENN STATE, THEN WE DO, DO WE HAVE TO ADOPT THAT? I THINK WE STILL TECHNICALLY HAVE TO ADOPT THAT, WHICH IS MORE OF A PLANNING COMMISSION THING. SO I NEED TO GET IT IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. OH. UM, I'M ACTUALLY TO DO THIS. I'M ACTUALLY GOING TO, AT THE END OF THE MONTH, I'M GOING TO HARRISBURG FOR, FOR A GATHERING OF COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE DONE IT. THEY'VE ASKED ME TO COME, NOT TO SPEAK. I, I'VE ALREADY DONE THAT ON A ZOOM SESSION WHEN I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS GONNA DO IT. THEY'RE LIKE, OH, AND JEFF WILL, AND JEFF WILL FINISH OUT THE MEETING WITH A DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS. I'M LIKE, I WILL. SO, WHICH IS ALWAYS AN INTERESTING THING. YOU WERE JUST VOLUNTOLD I WAS JUST VOLUNTOLD, WHICH IS A WORD I JUST INTRODUCED MY SON TO THIS WEEKEND. . SO I HEARD ABOUT IT RECENTLY. SO, UM, SO I WILL BE THERE FOR THAT. AND, AND UM, BRANDY, THE WOMAN FROM PENN STATE HAS BECOME QUITE FRIENDLY OR CONVERSATIONAL ON LINKEDIN WITH ME. I GET A LOT OF [00:25:01] MESSAGES. NOT ANYTHING MORE THAN, HEY, WE WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THIS AND HEY, WE WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THAT. BUT IT'S, IT'S SO JUST SO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE NATIVE, THE NATIVE PLANTS MM-HMM . IS DIFFERENT THAN THE WEED THING. YES. AND THEN THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN THE MEADOW THING. THE MEADOW IS A LIKE BASIN REPLANTING. SO I THOUGHT THE MEADOW THING WAS FOR HOAS DON'T, DON'T HAVE JUST STRIPS OF GRASS. AND AND THAT'S PART OF IT. PART OF IT IS TAKING THE, THE BASINS THAT ARE JUST THESE BIG PATCHES OF GRASS. YEAH. LIKE WHEN YOU DRIVE UP ONE 13. YEAH. IT'S, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU DRIVE UP TRAP ROAD, IT'S JUST LIKE THERE'S NO TREES. RIGHT. AND EVERY FOUR DAYS YOU SEE SOMEBODY OUT THERE JUST, AND THEY'RE ALL BASINS AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE ALL STORM CONTROL BASINS. RIGHT. THEY HAVE NO NEED MOW, NO ONE'S EVEN USING THEM. RIGHT. AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOOSE LOGS. THOSE ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE USING THOSE. WELL I WAS AT THE, UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I SAID I WOULD DO THAT WAS THE SCHOOL THING GETTING, UH, THE, SO ANYWAY AT THE SCHOOL THING, UM, WHATEVER OFFICER WAS THERE WHO WAS HILARIOUS, HOW MANYS DO WE HAVE? OH, PERKINS. OH MY GOD. UM, HE WAS LIKE, OH, YOU'RE ON THE EAC. YEAH. WELL WE GOTTA STOP, UM, FERTILIZING OUR, WE GOTTA STOP FERTILIZING OUR GRASS SPACE BECAUSE IT'S JUST RUNNING OFF INTO THE RIVER AND WHY ARE WE DOING THAT? AND I WAS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. , HE'S A FARMER. HE HAS, HE HAS A LOT OF ANIMALS EVERY YEAR IN THE BACK OF HIS PICKUP TRUCK. YEAH. THAT'S ANDREW. SHE LAID HER EGGS IN THE BACK OF HIS TRUCK. YEAH. WHO DID HIS ONE TURKEY LAID HER EGGS IN THE BACK OF HIS PERSONAL TRUCK. WOW. WHICH HE DRIVES WITH HER IN IT AND THE EGGS. OH, THAT'S HILARIOUS. SO ANYWAY, HE WAS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE DOING THIS. WHY CAN'T WE STOP DOING THIS? SO LIKE, WHAT'S THAT ONE? IT'S MORE SO, 'CAUSE IT WAS THE BEAUTIFICATION OF THE PROPERTY. SO WE'RE JUST INSTRUCTED TO THAT FROM THE BOARD. IF WE NO LONGER WANT TO HAVE GREEN GRASS, WE WILL STOP FERTILIZING IT. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO KEEP IT LOOKING AS PRISTINE AS IT IS. IF WE STOP DOING THAT. THEN YOU SAID THERE IS THE FERTILIZERS THAT ARE NATURAL THOUGH. I, I CAN GET THEM FROM DON, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THEY ALL ARE UNDERNEATH THE CLASSIFICATION THAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO USE. RIGHT. THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT HAZARDOUS ASKING THE TOWNSHIP TO STOP MOWING A LONG TIME. WELL, MAYBE TO YEARS. HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU STOP MOWING? I MEAN, WHAT CERTAIN AREAS JUST, WELL, IT COMES, WELL THERE'S RESTRICTIONS ALONG LIKE THE ROADSIDE, LIKE ON ONE 13 WE TALKED ABOUT DOING IT FROM THE FENCE TO ONE 13. WE SAW MOWING THAT WHOLE AREA. IT BECOMES A BLIND SPOT. THERE WAS ISSUES THERE. 'CAUSE WE HAVE A CROSSWALK RIGHT AT THE END OF THAT GRASS. SO IT CAN FIRE A STRIP, BUT THEN YOU, WE CAN MOW A STRIP, BUT IT DEPENDS ON WHAT PEN DOT TELLS US TO DO. SO THERE'S SOME OF OUR SPACES THAT, THAT WERE HELD UP BY PENDOT. IF PENDOT SAYS THIS DISTANCE, GREAT, THEN GREAT, FINE. THAT'S WHAT PENDOT SAYS. BUT THE REST OF IT COULD BE WILD FLOWERS, IT COULD BE GROUND COVERS. AND THAT'S OTHER THAN GRASS. AND IT'S, IT COULD BE LOTS OF OTHER THINGS. AND YES, I KNOW IT MEAN MEANS MONEY AND LOOKING FOR GREEN. WELL, I, I THINK ALL OF THESE ARE GREAT IDEAS. I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS BOIL THEM DOWN, COME UP WITH A POLICY FOR TOWNSHIP MOWING MM-HMM . AND PRESENT THAT TO THE BOARD AND SAY, HERE'S WHAT WE WANT YOUR TOWNSHIP MOWING POLICY TO BE. BECAUSE THAT SEEMS REALLY EASY. THAT DOESN'T TAKE PUBLIC INPUT. THAT'S JUST GETTING THE TOWN GRID RIGHT. TO AGREE. SO I, I THINK IF, IF THAT WERE, IF THAT WERE SOMEONE'S PUSH, THAT'S GREAT. DO THAT. AND THEN THAT CAN BOIL OVER INTO, HEY, NOW WE'VE DONE IT FOR THE TOWNSHIP. WE WANT TO DO IT FOR THE REST OF NOW WE WANT THE HOAS TO DO IT NOW WE WANT THE HOAS TO DO IT. YEAH. YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE CAN, WE CAN TALK ABOUT HAVING THE HOA MEETING AGAIN. I KNOW WE, I KNOW I DROPPED THE BALL ON THAT MOSTLY BECAUSE IT'S NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO FIGURE OUT WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE RUNNING HOAS. 'CAUSE THEY CHANGE IN A HEARTBEAT AND THEY DON'T YOU CALL UP THE PERSON WHO IT WAS, NO, I'M NOT THERE. I DON'T LIVE THERE ANYMORE. I DON'T KNOW WHO IT IS NOW. SO IT'S, IT'S ALWAYS A CHALLENGE. I HAVE THE PERSON THAT WORKS UNDER ME. SHE'S, I'M ALWAYS LIKE, ANYTIME YOU SEE AN HOA POST ON LIVING IN ROYERSFORD OR LIVING IN UPPER PROVIDENCE, GO TO THE MEETING. GO TO THE MEETING, GET THAT NAME, YOU KNOW, REACH OUT, SEE IF YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHO. IT'S, SO SHE'S CONSTANTLY ON THE HUNT FOR IT. IT'S JUST A BACKGROUND JOB FOR HER. BUT IT'S, YEAH. IT'S SO IMPOSSIBLE THOUGH. AND A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE DON'T WANNA BE KNOWN. RIGHT. THEY DON'T WANT KNOW, THEY DON'T WANT IT OUT. AND, AND I WOULD SAY PROBABLY HALF OF 'EM NOW ARE RUN BY COMPANIES. RIGHT. THAT THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. MANAGEMENT. WHICH IS, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY FINE. I UNDERSTAND THAT LIVING IN AN HOA BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THAT MANAGEMENT COMPANY DOESN'T WANT TO TAKE ANYTHING TO THEIR BOARD THAT'S GONNA COST THEM MORE OR COST THEM DIFFERENTLY. THEY WANT TO JUST GO IN THERE AND DO IT LIKE THEY DO EVERY OTHER SUBDIVISION. RIGHT. AND, AND IN AND IN THAT WAY IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HAVE A REGULATION THAT WE COULD THEN POINT TO. 'CAUSE THEN THAT WOULD MAKE THEM PAY ATTENTION. RIGHT. SO THEY HAVE TO DO IT. YEAH. I COMPLETELY AGREE. AND SO THAT'S I THINK ANOTHER AVENUE WE CAN GO IN. SO [00:30:01] EVERYBODY COGITATE ON THIS FOR A LITTLE BIT. AND THEN, SO THAT ONE'S NOT IN HERE. IT IS NOT OKAY. BUT SOME YOU'RE GONNA TAKE THAT ONE. SURE. WELL I'M NOT VOLUNTOLD THAT YOU . NO, NO. THAT JUST, I'M HAPPY TO CALL IT MICRO PLANTED, BUT I THINK MAYBE, WELL NO, IT'S TOWNSHIP MOWING. RIGHT. I THINK THEY KIND OF GO HAND TO HAND AND THAT'S FINE. THEY CAN BE A DUAL. OKAY. AGAIN, I THINK BY NEXT MONTH, IF EVERY SORT OF COMES UP WITH A PARAGRAPH OF WHAT THE INTENT IS, I MEAN I HATE TO BOIL THIS DOWN LIKE A 10TH GRADE ENGLISH ASSIGNMENT, BUT JUST A PARAGRAPH OF WHAT THE INTENT IS. LET'S BUILD OFF OF THAT. 'CAUSE THEN WE CAN FOCUS IT DOWN AND SAY, OKAY, HERE'S WHAT I'M GONNA DO FIRST. HERE'S WHERE I'M GONNA SECOND AND THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GONNA BE. MM-HMM . RIGHT. AND THEN EVERY SINGLE MEETING WE CAN GO AROUND AND BE LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU WORKING ON? WHERE ARE YOU ON THIS? AND WE CAN KIND OF MAKE IT MORE PRODUCTIVE, PRODUCTIVE MEETINGS. YEAH. AND, AND THAT'S FINE IN MY HEAD FOR THE, THE, THE STOP MOWING HAS TO BE IN PLACE WITH SOMETHING ELSE RATHER THAN JUST LETTING GRASS DO WHATEVER, WHICH I'VE LET MY PROPERTY DO. AND I HAD AN ACRE OF THISTLE, BUT THAT'S OKAY. I'M SURE SOMEBODY ENJOYED IT. I I WILL TELL YOU AFTER 20 SOME YEARS DOING IT AT THE TOWNSHIP LEVEL, THE IDEAS IN YOUR HEAD ARE GREAT AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH 'EM. THE CHALLENGE IS ALWAYS GONNA BE GETTING THEM THROUGH THE BOARD. RIGHT. AND WE CAN'T CONTROL THAT. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GONNA VOTE ON. SO LET'S JUST PUT THE BEST IDEAS FORWARD WHEN WE CAN. AND THEN CHIP FALL WHERE THEY MAY. YEP. IS THERE ANY, UM, ANY CONVERSATION ABOUT, UH, JEWELRY FOR OIL IN ANY OF OUR PARKS? UM, NO, BUT THERE IS COME TO MY ATTENTION. OKAY. I IF YOU HAVE A DRILL WOULD YEAH, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT. I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE OIL THERE. THERE IS A, A PROPOSAL TO DO IT ON, ON HIGHLAND. HE'S SOME THE HOUSE IS ON HIGHLAND. ON HIGHLAND. ON HIGHLAND. OKAY. ALRIGHT. WELL THAT'S GOOD. CAN WE, CAN WE MAKE IT, CAN WE PREEMPT ? YOU MAY NOT SELL OUR PUBLIC LANDS. YOU MAY NOT DRILL OIL . I DON'T KNOW WHY WE GETTING DRILL THE, UNFORTUNATELY, I, IT PROBABLY NOT OIL, BUT THERE ARE SOME STATE LEVEL PREEMPTIONS IN ZONING THAT WE CAN'T TOUCH LIKE FORESTRY. TECHNICALLY I CAN'T REGULATE FORESTRY FROM A ZONING STANDPOINT FOR ANYBODY. IF SOMEONE HAD A, LIKE LET'S SAY THERE'S THE PIECE THAT'S UP OFF COLA ROAD ON THE OTHER SIDE, RIGHT BY THE CIDER MILL BRIDGE. UM, ACROSS THE STREET FROM DON. YEAH. ACROSS THE STREET FROM DON. THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF TREES IN THERE. GORGEOUS PIECE GROUND. IT'S VERY STEEP. SO YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE ANYTHING DEVELOPED THERE. BUT THE BUILDER, THE OWNER AUDUBON LAND CAME IN AND SAID, WE NEED TO CALL SOME TREES FROM THERE. WE NEED TO CUT THEM DOWN. WHAT DO YOU REQUIRE? WHAT DO YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT IT WE'RE HAVING A FORESTRY COMPANY COME OUT AND DO IT. I'M LIKE, I, I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE IT'S, IN THIS CASE IT'S FORESTRY. AND THEY WENT AND THEY WERE SELECTIVE CUTTING AND CUTTING DOWN SOME DEAD STUFF. AND IT STILL LOOKED GREAT OVER THERE. BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, I, I SAID THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO. WELL WOULDN'T PORK COSTS A COUPLE OIL DERRICKS WOULD LOOK A LOT BETTER THAN A, YOU KNOW, A 15 STORY OR 12 STORY BUILDING. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT JUST LOOK A LOT BETTER. COULD HAVE KEPT SOME GRASS WINDMILLS KILLED BIRDS . OH MY GOD. SO HERE'S AN INTERESTING, UH, YOU JUST MENTIONED WINDMILLS. UM, I AM NOT PLUGGED INTO THIS, BUT THERE IS A MONTGOMERY FAMILY CLEAN ENERGY, LIKE CLEAN BY, I DON'T KNOW, SOMETHING OR THERE. ANYWAY, I'M MISQUOTING IT 'CAUSE I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THE DATE IS, BUT THERE'S SOME INITIATIVE WITHIN MONTGOMERY COUNTY LEVEL TO DO CLEAN ENERGY. AND I WAS CURIOUS, HAS THIS GROUP EVER LOOKED INTO LIKE SIGHTING CLEAN ENERGY ANYWHERE? IT'S KIND OF PENN STATE DOING THAT. YEAH, THE STUDY I WOULD SAY NOW. YEAH. NOT, NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. I WAS JUST, I I WOULD LIKE TO GET, I MEAN I, I'VE KIND OF WORKED IN JULIA ENERGY, BUT I WANT GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT INITIATIVE IS AND IF IT'S APPLICABLE ON A LOCAL LEVEL, WHAT'S BRING US INFORMATION. WE CAN PUT IT ON THIS AGENDA. UM, WE PUT SOLAR PANELS ON THE ROOFS OF ALL THE, UM, TOWNSHIP, LORI KNOWS THIS FAIRLY WELL. MY, I MEAN, CAN WE NOT DO THAT? CAN I THINK PUTTING SOLAR ON MY HOUSE? ACTUALLY IT'S PROBABLY TOO LATE BECAUSE THE GRANTS, BUT WE TAX CREDIT TOOK, UM, LORI RAN INTO THIS WHEN, WHEN SHE PUT SOLAR IN HER HOUSE, THE TOWNSHIP'S POLICIES, IT'S NOT ON MY HOUSE. I KNOW IT'S IN, IT'S ON YOUR YARD, WHICH IS WHERE WE CREATED THE PROBLEM. SO THE ISSUE IS THAT, THAT WE, ONE OF MY FIELDS, , IF IT'S ON YOUR HOUSE, IT'S A BUILDING PERMIT. IF IT'S ON THE GROUND, IF IT'S A COVERAGE REQUIREMENT, NOW I KNOW IT DOESN'T SIT ON THE GROUND. IT'S NOT LIKE PAVEMENT. IT DOESN'T YEAH. BUT I HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SAY IT'S REGULATED BY SOMETHING. OKAY. SO SOLAR PANELS ARE LIMITED TO, DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF YOUR PROPERTY, TWO OR 3% OF YOUR PROPERTY ON THE GROUND. YEAH. ON THE ROOF. YOU CAN COVER YOUR WHOLE ROOF. SO THAT'S, THAT'S HOW THIS TOWNSHIP APPROACHES IT. WE TRY TO BE VERY OPEN ABOUT IT. I MEAN, I'VE HAD PEOPLE ASK WHEN VARNER WAS UP FOR SALE, UM, PEOPLE SAID, WELL I WANNA BUY AND PUT A SOLAR FARM THERE. AND I'M LIKE, WELL, IT'S LIMITED TO AGRICULTURAL USE. THEY LIKE SOLAR [00:35:01] FARM. SO THAT WAS NOT THE SAME THING. I WAS LIKE, WELL THAT'S A QUESTION WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO ARGUE IF YOU WIN THE AUCTION. SO YEAH, WELL YOU CAN, YOU, YOU CAN UM, DO PLANTINGS UNDERNEATH SOLAR. YOU CAN ALSO RUN, SHE YOU CAN RUN, YEAH, YOU CAN RUN ANIMALS UNDERNEATH IT. THAT'S MAKE, THAT BEGS A GREAT BARBECUE. , I DON'T EAT LAMB. I DON'T, MY BARN SWALLOWS INITIALLY BUILT THEIR NESTS UNDER THE SOLAR FIELD AND FOR THEN SOME REASON THEY MOVED BACK OVER TO THEM ANYWAY, EMFS, MAYBE I, I, AGAIN, I THINK THAT'S ALL I'M LOOKING TO DO IS HAVE US LOCK IN TO FIVE OR SIX THINGS SO THAT NEXT YEAR WE CAN BE EXTREMELY FOCUSED AND NOT HAVE ANOTHER ROUND OF MEETINGS WHERE WE'RE LIKE, OKAY, WHAT WHAT DO WE ACCOMPLISH? FOR SURE BECAUSE I, I THINK, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK GOING ANYWHERE, WE'RE NOT, THE BOARD ISN'T SAYING WHAT IS EAC DOING? WHY DO WE HAVE IT? WE'RE NOT COSTING ANY MONEY AT THIS POINT. SO I, BUT I THINK HAVING, I DON'T THINK WE'RE ON THE RADAR RIGHT NOW AND IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THE REFERENDUM DOES PASS. THERE HAS TO BE AN OPEN SPACE COMMITTEE OR WHETHER THEY FARM THAT DOWN TO US AS THE A A C AND THE UP. I DON'T QUITE KNOW HOW THAT'S GONNA WORK, BUT THAT'S A POLICY DECISION FOR THEM BASED ON THE VOTE. SO. SO I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE. ANYTHING ELSE FOR THE GOOD OF THE ORDER? UH, TOMORROW NIGHT, COINCIDENTALLY, I JUST REMEMBERED THAT DOUG, MATT WAS SPEAKING, HE'S SPEAKING TOMORROW NIGHT THROUGH THE VALLEY FORGE AUDUBON SOCIETY. IF YOU GO TO THEIR WEBSITE, TO THEIR CALENDAR, YOU CAN REGISTER AND HOP ONTO HIS, YOU KNOW, HE'S THE, UM, GURU. THE THE, YEAH, THE THE THE NATIVE MEADOW GUY. RIGHT. HE IS LIKE THE, HE'S THE GUY WHO WROTE THE BOOK. HE BOOKS. AND WHERE IS THIS GONNA BE? AUDUBON? IT'S, WELL IT'S BY ZOOM. OH, OKAY. GOOD. THE VALLEY FORGE AUDUBON IS SPEAKING OF AUDUBON. AND YOU MENTIONED, UH, AUDUBON, UH, LAND RELATED DEVELOPMENT. BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY'RE GONNA DO WITH ST. GABE'S? THEY'VE TOLD ME THAT THEY WANT TO KEEP AS MUCH OF THE GREEN AREA ON LONG 4 22 AS THEY CAN. THEY MAY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH PARKING, BUT THE, THEY WANT TO TAKE THE EXISTING BUILDING THAT'S A U-SHAPE. THEY WANNA REDO THAT REHAB, ALL THAT. THEY WANNA DO MULTI-FAMILY, PUT THAT MULTI-FAMILY IN THE EXISTING BUILDING AND THEN BUILD NEW INTERIOR IN THE INTERIOR PART OF THE U. SO THE FOOTPRINT'S GONNA BE THE SAME GENERALLY? I MEAN, I DEPARTMENTS YEAH. COOL. AND SO THE BUT ACROSS IT IS THE FAR THEY HAVEN'T, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THEY WERE, THIS WAS PROBABLY A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN THEY FIRST STARTED NEGOTIATIONS WITH THIS THAT I HAD A DISCUSSION WITH SOMEBODY FROM ARM LAND ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE FARM. SO I CAN ASK. I THINK I HAVE, I THINK IT'S THE SAME. I WE JUST DID A, THE UP DEMS DID A AGO AND THEY WERE, THE GROUP WAS SAYING THAT IT'S THE SAME THAT IT'S TOGETHER. YEAH. IT, YEAH, THE FARM AND, AND ST. GABE'S ARE BOUGHT BY THE SAME COMPANY. YEAH. YEAH. THEY'RE THE SAME COMPANY THAT OWNS SHANNON DE THEY OWN, UM, WHITE SPRINGS, NOT WHITE SPRINGS FARM. UM, UH, THE APARTMENTS AT PROVINCETOWN CENTER. YEAH. UM, A TON OF STUFF. I, I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, YEAH, THEY'RE DEVELOPERS SO I CAN'T SAY, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEIR THINKING IS, BUT THEY'RE GONNA DEVELOP, THEY'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING WITH IT. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH, BUT THEY'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING WITH IT. BUY I THINK I HAVE A MEETING WITH NIELSEN COME UP. I'LL, I'LL ASK HIM IF HE KNOWS. YEAH. BUT I KNOW THAT, I MEAN, I, WE, I DID HAVE HIM MENTION ST. GATES THE LAST MEETING I HAD WITH HIM, WHICH WAS JUST A COUPLE WEEKS AGO. AND, AND HE MENTIONED I, HE, HE SAID, WELL, EVERYTHING'S SORT OF ON HOLD THROUGH NOVEMBER. ONCE WE GET PAST NOVEMBER WE CAN TALK MORE ABOUT IT. SO I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT NECESSARILY I'M THEY GOT, UNLESS THEY GOT SOME IDEAS. OH, I'M SURE. YEAH. I MEAN, THEY'RE WELL FUNDED AND THEY'RE PRETTY GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO. YEAH. OH, THEY, THEY'RE NO QUESTION. THEY'RE GOOD ONE. SO THEY'RE NOT, I MEAN, I ALSO HAVE TWO POTENTIAL ZONING, THREE POTENTIAL ZONING VIOLATIONS OUT ON THEM. SO, I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS PERFECT, BUT THEY, WELL I'M SURE THEY PRESS THE ENVELOPE WHENEVER THEY CAN. THEY DO. SO. ALRIGHT. DO I HAVE A MOTION TO MOVE TO, TO ADJOURN? ALMOST THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE. MOVE TO ADJOURN. SECOND. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? ARE YOU ALL FOR THE SESSION? YES. YES. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.