* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] EVERYBODY READY? THE [CALL TO ORDER] UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY MEETING OF OCTOBER 2ND, 2025 WILL COME TO ORDER. UH, THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS INTRODUCTIONS OF EVERYBODY. WE'LL START I GUESS WITH YOU. TIM BERMAN. UH, TOWNSHIP MANAGER, I GUESS. AUTHORITY MANAGER TOO. DON KELLY, PUBLIC BOARD DIRECTOR GEORGE V OF PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP CIVIL FORUM. JEN HAW. GILMORE ASSOCIATES TOWNSHIP ENGINEER. MICHAEL COY. GILMORE ASSOCIATES TOWNSHIP ENGINEER. JOHN MCGUIGAN, AUTHORITY MEMBER. AND YOU AUTHORITY MEMBER LORI HIGGINS. AUTHORITY MEMBER, UH, ZACHARY SEVERSON FROM EASTBURN AND GRAY TOWNSHIP. SOLICITOR. OKAY. THAT BE CORNELSON, THE PUBLIC WORKS ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT. I WAS ABOUT TO MAKE SURE YOU DID THAT. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. UM, [1. Approve October 2, 2025 agenda] FIRST ITEM AFTER THAT IS TO APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT. UM, SO MOVED. ANY DISCUSSION? SECOND TO THAT. I'LL SECOND. THANK YOU. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? NAME TENSIONS. THANK YOU. UH, THE AGENDA IS APPROVED. [2. Approve February 6, 2025 Meeting Minutes] UM, THE NEXT ITEM IS TO APPROVE THE MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY MINUTES FOR THE LAST TIME WE MET, WHICH WAS FEBRUARY 26TH, 2025. FEBRUARY 6TH. THAT'S WHAT I SAID. FEBRUARY 6TH. 26TH. WELL, ALRIGHT, SIXTH. THANK YOU. UM, SO MOVED OR SECOND? I'LL SECOND. THANK YOU. ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT? IF NOT, UM, TAKE A, TAKE A VOTE. AYE IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. THEY ARE APPROVED. [3. Overview of the MS4 permit program, including past compliance projects, the current stream bank stabilization project, the 10/20/2025 DEP inspection of UPT facilities, and future projects.] MOVING RIGHT ALONG. UH, FIRST UNDER ACTION AND DISCUSSION ITEMS IS, UH, AN OVERVIEW OF THE MS FOUR PERMIT PROGRAM, UH, AND MANY OTHER RELATED THINGS. SO GO AHEAD. OKAY. MS FOUR. UM, THERE'S A SLIDESHOW. WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT TONIGHT 'CAUSE THAT WAS REALLY FOR THE PUBLIC. OH, OKAY. ENGAGEMENT. SO YOU DON'T NEED THAT. I'M JUST GONNA TALK ABOUT MS FOUR. OKAY. YEAH, SO THE TOWNSHIP HAS A GENERAL PERMIT, MS FOUR. IT'S A FIVE YEAR CYCLE AND, UM, CLEAN WATER, THINGS LIKE THAT. SO THE, UM, TOWNSHIP IS DIVIDED INTO TWO DIFFERENT DRAINAGE SHEDS. ONE GOES TO THE SCHULL RIVER, ONE GOES TO PER PROCUREMENT CREEK AND THE PER PROCUREMENT CREEK IS IMPAIRED. IT'S A SEDIMENT IMPAIRMENT. SO AS A RESULT OF THE PERMIT THAT YOU HAVE, THERE IS A POLLUTION REDUCTION THAT IS REQUIRED IN THE PERM AND CREEK WATERSHED. THE, UM, PROJECT AND GO AHEAD. ABOUT WHAT PERCENTAGE GOES TO WHICH WATERSHIP? UH, IT'S LESS THAN HALF THAT GOES TO THE PER. OKAY. AND THE PERMIT CYCLE IS A FIVE YEAR CYCLE. SO YOUR PERMIT IS EXPIRING NOW SEPTEMBER, 2025. HOWEVER, DEP HAS NOT RELEASED YET. THE NEW REQUIREMENTS FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEAR PERMIT CYCLE. THERE'S A COUPLE DRAFTS THAT ARE FLYING AROUND WHAT YOU DID THIS LAST PERMIT CYCLE. THE CURRENT CYCLE RIGHT NOW TO DO FOR THE POLLUTION REDUCTION IS THE STREAM BANK, UH, STABILIZATION AND RESTORATION PROJECT OVER ON GREENWOOD AVE. THAT WB HOMES BUILT IN CONJUNCTION WITH 3 57 GREENWOOD AVE ON OCTOBER 20TH. COUPLE WEEKS AWAY. DEP IS GOING TO BE COMING AND INSPECTING THAT AND VERIFYING THAT THAT PROJECT WILL COVER YOUR ENTIRE POLLUTION REDUCTION THAT'S REQUIRED FOR THIS FIVE YEAR CYCLE. THE REPORTING AND THE FINAL REPORTING FOR IT IS DUE SEPTEMBER OF 2026. SO WE'RE ON SCHEDULE, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING'S GOOD WITH THAT. UM, THIS NEXT FIVE YEAR CYCLE, SEDIMENT REDUCTION IS STILL THE GOAL EXCEPT DEP AND THEIR DRAFT DOCUMENTS SO FAR HAS SAID THAT THE SEDIMENT POUNDS IS TOO DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO CALCULATE. SO THEY SAID THAT THEY'RE GONNA CHANGE THE REQUIREMENTS TO A PURE VOLUME REDUCTION. THE THOUGHT BEING, IF YOU'RE REDUCING STORMWATER VOLUME BY DEFAULT YOU'RE REDUCING THE SEDIMENT THAT IS GETTING INTO THE WATERSHED. OTHER THAN THAT, UM, DEP HASN'T ISSUED THE GUIDANCE YET, SO IT'LL BE UNKNOWN WHAT PROJECT YOU NEED TO DO FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEAR CYCLE. UM, BUT YOU'RE COVERED THIS CYCLE. NOW. ALSO ON OCTOBER 20TH, DEP IS GOING TO, UM, INSPECT [00:05:01] THE TOWNSHIP FOR THE ENTIRE PROGRAM. SO THAT'S THE HANDOUT THAT YOU WERE GIVEN. IT IS THE TWO PAGE, THE SIX POINTS OF THE MINIMUM CONTROL MEASURES FOR MS FOUR AND DEP IS GONNA COME. THEY'RE GONNA SIT IN THE OFFICE FOR AN HOUR AND UM, GO THROUGH THE ANNUAL REPORT. EVERY YEAR WE DO AN ANNUAL REPORT. IT WAS SUBMITTED ON SEPTEMBER 30TH. THEY'RE GONNA GO THROUGH THE ANNUAL REPORT AND THEY'RE JUST GONNA SAY, YEAH, YOU GUYS ARE DOING A GOOD JOB. OR, OH, YOU COULD IMPROVE ON THIS REPORTING. UM, IT IS NOT AN INSPECTION, SO IT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. UM, THEN FOR THE NEXT HOUR THEY'RE GONNA WALK AROUND THE PUBLIC WORKS COMPOUND WITH DON. THEY'RE GONNA SEE WHAT HE'S DOING OUT THERE. 'CAUSE YOU NEED TO CONTROL YOUR OIL SPILLS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IT'S ALSO WATER QUALITY, UH, NOT JUST QUANTITY. AND UM, THEN FOR THE THIRD HOUR WE'RE GONNA DRIVE OUT TO GREENWOOD AVE TO DO THAT INSPECTION. SO THE MSS FOUR PROGRAM, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE ANOTHER PERMIT FOR ANOTHER FIVE YEAR CYCLE. WE JUST DON'T KNOW A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT ABOUT IT YET. OR WHAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO. WELL, YOU WILL HAVE TO DO ANOTHER PROJECT. UM, IT MIGHT NOT BE A STREAM BANK RESTORATION, YOU KNOW, BUT THERE'LL BE ANOTHER PROJECT IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. SO IT'LL BE 2026 TO 2031 WITH THE FINAL REPORTING DUE IN 2032. SO GOT SOME TIME, BUT UH, YEAH, WE'RE JUST WAITING FOR DEP TO, TO UH, GET BACK TO US. AND ON THE AGENDA THERE WAS, UM, SOMETHING ABOUT THE PAST COMPLIANCE PROJECTS. THERE ARE NO PAST COMPLIANCE PROJECTS BECAUSE THIS LAST CYCLE WAS THE FIRST POLLUTION PLAN REDUCTION REQUIREMENT FOR THAT. AND THEN FOR FUTURE, AGAIN, IT'LL BE A VOLUME CONTROL PROJECT THAT WE'LL HAVE TO DO, UM, IN THE NEXT CYCLE. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHEN THEY ARE LIKELY TO RELEASE THE GUIDELINES FOR THE NEXT CYCLE SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED? , THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING. . IN THE, IN THE DRAFT DOCUMENTS THAT ARE OUT, THEY'VE PUT OUT A CALCULATION SPREADSHEET OF HOW THE NEW CALCULATIONS, 'CAUSE I GUESS EVERYBODY CALCULATED THE SEDIMENT LOAD A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY. THIS IS GONNA UNIFY IT ACROSS THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA. SO THEY'VE PUT A SPREADSHEET OUT SO THAT ALL MUNICIPALITIES, YOU'RE PRETTY SOPHISTICATED HERE. THE ENTIRE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA IS NOT RIGHT. SO THIS IS GONNA HELP THE ENTIRE STATE FIGURE THESE OUT FOR THEIR NPDS PERMITS. UM, THEY'VE PUT THE DRAFT SPREADSHEET OUT. THEY HAVE ALSO PUT OUT A COUPLE TIMELINES. SO THEY'RE IN THE DRAFT. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR THE DRAFT PROGRAM FOR YOU WOULD BE DUE 2026. THEN YOU WOULD HAVE UNTIL 2028 TO ACTUALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT YOUR CONSTRUCTION PROJECT IS GOING TO BE. AND THEN IN YOUR LAST TWO YEARS OF THE CYCLE WOULD BE THE CONSTRUCTION AND IMPLEMENTATION OF WHATEVER BMPS YOU HAD TO DO THAT. THAT'S THE DRAFT AT THIS POINT. SO THINGS WILL BE TWEAKED, YOU KNOW, AND AND SUCH, BUT UM, IT SHOULD BE FAIRLY CLOSE TO THOSE DEADLINES WE ANTICIPATE. UH, YEAH. COULD YOU GO OVER WHAT'S ON GREENWOOD AVENUE AGAIN? IS THAT WHERE THE VANDERILL HOUSE IS? NO, IT'S DOWN CLOSER TO NOEL DRIVE. UHHUH ACTUALLY ON, UM, IT'S THE UH, STREET WHERE SCHOOL SCHOOLHOUSE AROUND. YES. OKAY. YEP. THE STREAM DOWN THERE. SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS THERE WAS A LOT OF, UM, UNDERMINING ON THE SIDES. EROSION UNDER TREE ROOTS AND SUCH. THAT ENTIRE AREA WAS COMPLETELY CLEARED TO MAKE THE FLOOD WAY AND FLOOD PLAIN BE FLATTER. YOU WANT THE FLOOD WATERS TO BREACH THE BANKS BECAUSE IT SLOWS DOWN THE FLOW AND THE EROSION. SO THAT, THAT'S WHAT WE DID. UM, THE CHANNELS REINSTALLED THERE IS, UM, BOTH SIDES OF IT ARE LINED WITH BIO LOGS AND THEN THOUSANDS OF LIVE STAKES WERE INDIVIDUALLY PLANTED. THREE FEET ON CENTER, STAGGERED THROUGH THE WHOLE AREA. UM, I WAS OUT AND DID AN INSPECTION IN JULY AND THEN I HAD WB BRING PICKERING VALLEY WHO DID THE PLANTING. THEY DID, UH, WE WALKED THE SITE AGAIN IN AUGUST BECAUSE THERE WAS A COUPLE OF THE BIO LOGS THAT HAD PULLED AWAY FROM THE REINFORCEMENT. THEY HAD TO BE REPLACED BEFORE DEP SOLVED PROJECT. UM, BUT PICKERING VALLEY CAME OUT AND SAID THAT THE LIVE STAKES LOOK FANTASTIC AND UH, THERE'S FOUR SPECIES OUT THERE, TWO DOGWOODS AND TWO, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE OTHER ONE IS. THE DEER REALLY LIKED THE DOGWOODS. SO WB ALSO PAID FOR A REAPPLICATION OF THE DEER REPELLENT. THEY DID THAT LAST FALL WHEN THEY PLANTED THE LIVE STAKES THE FIRST TIME THEY DID IT AGAIN. I MEAN, 'CAUSE THEY WOULDN'T PROTECT THEIR INVESTMENT UNTIL EVERYTHING HAD STABILIZED. YEAH. HOW FAR DOWN DID THAT GO FROM THE ROAD ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE NEXT WOOD LINE? IT'S 500 FEET. IT'S 500 FEET. BOTH SIDES OF THE STREAM CHANNEL. OKAY. [00:10:02] I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT RELATIVE TO MY HOUSE. GOT IT. UM, YOU CAN WALK BACK THERE. UM, PUBLIC SPORTS HAVE BEEN, HAS BEEN INSTRUCTED TO NOT MOW IT. 'CAUSE YOU'LL CUT DOWN ALL THE LIVE STAKES. THEY CAN MOW THE SEWER EASEMENT THAT'S BACK THERE. UM, THIS ISN'T ENCROACHED INTO THE SEWER EASEMENT. MM-HMM . UM, JUST CAREFUL IF YOU WALK BACK THERE BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF UM, REGULAR VEGETATION TOO. SURE. MEADOW TYPE MIX THAT'S COMING UP. SO IT'S A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO SEE. THE LIVE STAKES JUST DON'T TRANQUIL AT ALL. BUT YOU CAN WALK BACK THERE. THAT'S OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. WHAT ARE LIVE STAKES? THERE ARE ACTUALLY CUTTINGS FROM A DOGWOOD SHOVE THEM IN THE GROUND AND IT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE. IT LOOKS LIKE A DEAD STICK UNTIL IT GETS LEAVES ON IT. YEAH. SO TWO OF THE SPECIES ARE SPROUTING, SPROUTING FROM THE TOP, AND TWO OF THE SPECIES ARE SPROUTING FROM THE BOTTOM KIND OF AT THE GROUND LEVEL. YEAH. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? I'M GLAD I DIDN'T HAVE TO PUT THE LIFE STAKES IN. LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY. . THANK YOU. [4. Receive update from Authority Solicitor on the West Chester stormwater fee/tax appeal issue that is before the PA Supreme Court.] OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON AND GO TO OUR SOLICITOR FOR UPDATE ON THE LATEST WOULD. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, SO UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE MUCH OF AN UPDATE. UM, JUST TO GIVE EVERYONE A, A A QUICK SUMMARY OF THE CASE. UM, THERE'S A CASE THAT IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE PENNSYLVANIA SUPREME COURT INVOLVING THE BOROUGH WESTCHESTER AND THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE SYSTEM OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN WESTCHESTER UNIVERSITY. ESSENTIALLY THE BOROUGH WESTCHESTER ADOPTED A, UH, STORMWATER FEE PROGRAM WHERE THEY WENT AROUND AND THEY CALCULATED THE AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE THAT, UH, THE PROPERTY OWNERS HAD ON THEIR, ON THEIR PROPERTY. AND THEY IMPOSED A STORMWATER FEE BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE. AND, UH, THEN ISSUED EVERYBODY IN. WELL, THE, UH, WESTCHESTER UNIVERSITY TOOK ISSUE WITH THIS AND FILED A DECLARATORY JUDGMENT ACTION WITH THE COURT, WITH THE COMMONWEALTH COURT, UH, BASICALLY SAYING, HEY, WE'RE A TAX EXEMPT ENTITY. THIS IS NOT ACTUALLY A FEE 'CAUSE WE'RE NOT GETTING ANYTHING FOR THIS. WE'RE NOT GETTING A SPECIFIC SERVICE, THEREFORE THIS IS NOT A FEE, THIS IS A TAX AND YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TAX US 'CAUSE WE'RE TAX EXEMPT. SO NEEDLESS TO POINT OUT, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF HYPOCRISY THERE WHERE THE PENNSYLVANIA, YOU KNOW, DEP REQUIRES YOU TO IMPOSE ALL OF THESE STORM WATER AND UH, RATE REGULATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS, BUT THEN TURN TURNS AROUND AND SAYS, WELL, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM, WE'RE NOT GONNA GIVE YOU ANY MONEY TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT. UM, SO THE CASE WENT UP TO THE COMMONWEALTH COURT. COMMONWEALTH COURT RULED IN FAVOR OF THE WESTCHESTER UNIVERSITY AND THE STATE IN TERMS OF DETERMINING THAT IT WAS A, AN, AN UNAUTHORIZED TAX RATHER THAN A FEE. UH, THAT WAS BACK IN JANUARY OF 2023 THAT THE COMMONWEALTH COURT DECISION CAME OUT. UH, IT THEN TOOK ANOTHER YEAR PLUS FOR IT TO WIND WAY THROUGH THE PENNSYLVANIA SUPREME COURT. UH, IT WAS ARGUED LAST DECEMBER OF 2024 AND WE HAVE NOW BEEN WAITING, OR SEPTEMBER OF 2024. WHAT WAS IT? UH, JANUARY, 2023 IS WHEN THE DECISION CAME OUT IN AND SEPTEMBER OF 2024 IS WHEN IT WAS ALREADY. SO IT'S NOW BEEN A YEAR PLUS AND WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY KIND OF A DECISION. AND, UM, IT LITERALLY COULD COME DOWN ANY DAY NOW. WE COULD BE WAITING UNTIL NEXT YEAR. THERE'S REALLY NO INDICATION FROM THE COURT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, WHICH WAY THEY'RE GOING AND WHEN THEY MIGHT BE ISSUING A DECISION. UM, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT PRETTY MUCH EVERY MUNICIPAL SOLICITOR IN PENNSYLVANIA IS VERY EAGER TO FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON HERE. , I THINK MOST MUNICIPALITIES ARE TOO, BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS A, THEY SEE THIS AS A GOOD WAY TO, UH, YOU KNOW, GENERATE SOME MONEY TO, TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES. SO ZACH, IS THE SUPREME COURT SITTING ON THIS FOR A REASON? BECAUSE THIS HAS GONE ON A LONG, LONG, I I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW. UM, YOU KNOW, TO, FOR THEM TO SIT ON THIS FOR A YEAR PLUS, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY'RE WAITING FOR AN ELECTION CYCLE OR WHAT THE I I I, I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA AND I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIND ANY INSIGHT INTO WHAT'S ACTUALLY GOING ON, WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THIS, UH, UH, WESTCHESTER FEE RIGHT NOW. ARE THEY STILL COLLECTING IT OR ARE THEY NOT? ARE THEY ESCROWING THE MONEY THAT FOR THE, THE TAX EXAM? I'M JUST KIDDING. I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THAT WESTCHESTER UNIVERSITY WAS REFUSING TO PAY IT. THEY KEPT, THE BOROUGH KEPT SENDING THEM INVOICES AND THEY WERE BASICALLY SAYING, WE'RE NOT PAYING THAT. SO I, I ASSUMED THAT IF THEY LOST AND THEY SAID, NO, THIS IS A FEE AND YOU HAVE TO PAY IT, THE UNIVERSITY WOULD JUST HAVE [00:15:01] TO PAY IT AT THAT POINT. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE PUTTING THOSE FEES IN ESCROW OR NOT. I I THINK IT WAS, UM, CLOSE TO A YEAR AGO WHEN WE HEARD THE SAME MESSAGE BASICALLY THAT, WELL, IT COULD COME DOWN ANY DAY NOW AND WE'RE JUST WAITING. YEAH. UH, WE'RE STILL WAITING, OBVIOUSLY. UM, I I THINK IT GOES TO THE DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH. YEAH. , HOW IS WESTCHESTER SAYING THAT THEY'RE NOT, THEY DON'T DERIVE ANY BENEFIT FROM WELL, THEY'RE SAYING THAT IF YOU'RE USING THIS MONEY AND YOU'RE GOING IN AND YOU'RE, YOU'RE DOING A STREAM BANK RESTORATION ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BOROUGH. RIGHT. THAT IS LOWERING FLOOD LEVELS FOR THAT SECTION OF THE BOROUGH. IF YOU'RE USING THE MONEY I'M PAYING YOU FOR, I'M NOT GETTING ANYTHING, ANYTHING FOR IT. I THINK THAT'S THE GENERAL PREMISE, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S AWFUL HARD. I WOULD SAY IT'S AWFUL HARD TO ARGUE THAT THE WATER WOULD STOP BEFORE IT GOT TO THEIR PROPERTY. I THINK, I THINK THEIR POSITION IS MORE THAT IT'S A GENERALIZED BENEFIT. IT'S, IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, TAXES, AND I HAVEN'T FULLY PREPARED AN ARGUMENT ON THIS, BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU PAY TAXES, THEY PAY FOR ROADS. SO YES, EVERYBODY BENEFITS WHAT ROAD FROM HAVING A, A ROAD SYSTEM, BUT YOU CAN'T SAY THAT'S A FEE JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE YOUR HOUSE ON A ROAD. IT'S, IT, IT, IT IS A GENERALIZED BENEFIT. THERE'S NO SPECIFIC, IT'S NOT LIKE A TRASH FEE WHERE A, A TRUCK COMES TO YOUR PROPERTY AND TAKES AWAY YOUR TRASH. RIGHT. I THINK THAT'S THE, THAT'S THEIR ARGUMENT OR AN OCCUPANCY LICENSE FEE OR YEAH, WHEN YOU'RE, YOU'RE DRIVING SOME SPECIFIC BENEFIT THAT'S CLEARLY DIRECTED TO YOU AND IT'S COMPARABLE TO THE FEE THAT YOU'RE PAYING. UM, BUT I, I THINK BECAUSE THE REMEDIATION OF THE STORMWATER ISSUES IS SO, YOU KNOW, IT OCCURS OVER SUCH A BROAD AREA. THEY'RE BASICALLY SAYING, WELL, YOU KNOW, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO CONNECT THAT BACK TO WHAT, WHAT WE'RE DOING ON OUR PROPERTY, CONSIDERING THIS IS COMMONWEALTH WIDE. DID ANYBODY ELSE JOIN WITH WESTCHESTER? THERE WERE, I MEAN, WITH WEST, WITH THE BOROUGH? NO, WITH THE, WITH THE UNIVERSITY? UH, I'M NOT SURE. I DON'T KNOW. I KNOW THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF AMICHI BRIEFS THAT WERE FILED. I DON'T KNOW. I WOULD ASSUME THAT SOME OF THEM WENT WITH THE, WITH THE UNIVERSITY. UM, I WOULD THINK THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF TAX EXEMPT ENTITIES, CHURCHES, ANY, BASICALLY ANY TAX EXEMPT ENTITIES WANNA FIGHT THIS BECAUSE I THINK ALL THE, ALL THE MUNICIPAL ASSOCIATIONS LIKE PSATS, UH, THE COMMISSIONERS, THE LEGAL CITIES, ALL THOSE AGENCIES ARE, ARE, UM, SAYING THAT IT SHOULD BE A FEE OR I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO GET THE, UH, SUPREME COURT TO, YEAH, I MEAN IT GOES BACK TO THE KIND OF THE HYPOCRISY OF THE STATE SAYING, WELL, YOU GOTTA DO THIS, BUT WE'RE NOT WILLING TO GIVE YOU ANY MONEY EVEN THOUGH WE'RE CONTRIBUTING TO IT. BUT THE, THE UNIVERSITY DOES PAY A SERVE BILL, RIGHT? SO, WELL, YEAH, BECAUSE THEY GET CIVIL SERVICE. WHEN, UH, WHEN THIS MEETING WAS SCHEDULED, I KNEW THIS WAS ON THE AGENDA. I WAS THINKING, UH, OVERLY OPTIMISTICALLY APPARENTLY THAT THIS WILL, THERE WAS FINALLY A RESOLUTION OF THIS AND THEY'D MADE A DECISION. UNFORTUNATELY, I WAS BEING VERY FOOLISH, APPARENTLY. YEAH, I, AND I THINK WE WERE KIND OF PUSHING OFF HAVING THE MEETING WITH THE HOPES THAT THERE WOULD BE A DECISION THAT WOULD COME OUT. BUT YOU KNOW, WE, WE HIT A POINT WHERE WE JUST NEEDED TO HAVE THE MEETING. ANY FURTHER, ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR ZACH? OKAY, THANKS ZACH. [5. Project Status Reports] UM, MOVING ON THE PROJECT STATUS REPORTS. MIKE, YOU DOING THAT? YES. OKAY. UM, WE ARE CURRENTLY WORKING ON THE DESIGN TO REPLACE THE SECOND AVENUE FORCE MAIN AND GRAVITY LINE. THE SECOND AVENUE FORCE MAIN IS A 16 INCH ASBESTOS CEMENT FORCE MAIN THAT'S 58 YEARS OLD. THE TOWNSHIP'S BEING PROACTIVE HERE TO REPLACE IT BEFORE IT HAS A CHANCE TO RUPTURE AND DUMP RAW SEWAGE IN DOMINGO CREEK OR THE SCO RIVER. SO WE HAVE RECEIVED P UH, DPS PLANNING APPROVAL FOR THAT JOB. WE HAVE THE PEN OUT PERMIT FOR THAT JOB. WE ARE NOW TRYING TO GET, I THINK ZACH'S WORKING WITH THE COUNTY TO TRY TO GET EASEMENTS THAT WE NEED TO GO THROUGH THE COUNTY PROPERTY WITH THE REALIGNED PIPE. YEAH, WE'RE JUST WAITING ON AN APPRAISAL FOR THAT AND THEN WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET THE COUNTY TO DONATE THAT. AND I BELIEVE WE ARE TRYING TO GET A GRANT FOR PART OF THAT FROM DELTA. YEAH, THAT'S ACTUALLY WHEN WE GO TO NUMBER SIX, UH, UH, WE COULD JUST DO A QUICK, UH, HIGHLIGHT ON THE SEWER BUDGET. THAT'S ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET A MILLION DOLLARS FOR, BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS TO PASS THEIR BUDGET FIRST. SO, SO THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT THAT PROJECT IS. I MEAN, IF WE GET THE MONEY, HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE UNDER CONSTRUCTION NEXT YEAR. UM, THE SEWER IN EAST LINFIELD ROAD IN LINFIELD TRAP ROAD IN CIRCLE, THAT IS A SECTION THAT [00:20:01] PROBABLY THE BIGGEST SECTION OF TOWNSHIP THAT'S NOT SERVED WITH PUBLIC SEWER YET. WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF, OF TRYING TO OBTAIN DEP PLANNING TO DO THAT. THAT'LL FLOW TO THE PUMP STATION THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING BUILT ON TERRA PARK BY TOLL BROTHERS, WHICH WILL BE DEDICATED TO THE TOWNSHIP. IT'S BEEN BUILT IN CONJUNCTION WITH CANTERBURY MEADOWS TOLD DEVELOPMENT OUT TOLINE ROOF, SO THAT JOB'S DOWN THE ROAD LITTLE WAYS, BUT WE WERE WORKING ON THE PLANNING AND TRYING TO GET THAT APPROVED BY DEP, THE SANITARY SEWER INTERCEPTED LINING, THE $2 MILLION PROJECT. THAT'S ANOTHER PROACTIVE STEP BY THE TOWNSHIP TO BIND THE SCO RIVER INTERCEPTOR RATHER THAN HAVE TO SPEND $40 MILLION LATER ON TO REPLACE THE WHOLE THING. WE'RE GONNA LINE IT AND GET ADDITIONAL YEARS TO SERVICE OUT OF THAT. WE ARE RIGHT NOW DOING A CAPACITY ANALYSIS ON THE EXISTING INTERCEPTOR TO MAKE SURE THAT ONCE WE LINE IT, WE STILL HAVE THE CAPACITY WE NEED TO CONVEY THE FLOWS THAT ARE CURRENTLY THERE. SO I THINK WE WILL HAVE THE CAPACITY ANALYSIS DONE WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS AND THEN THE TOWNSHIP CAN START MINING IT IF THEY CHOOSE TO. THE ER MILL ROAD STORM PIPE REPLACEMENT THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE, WE HAVE AN EAGLE THAT HAS A NEST DOWN THERE. SO WE WORKED THERE BETWEEN AUGUST ONE AND DECEMBER 31ST. WE HAD, WE WERE GONNA DO THE JOB THIS YEAR, BUT THEN PENNDOT CLOSED BLACKROCK ROAD AND MILL ROAD BECOMES PART OF THE DETOUR. SO WE DIDN'T WANT, IT'S NOT REALLY PART OF THE DETOUR, IT'S THE UNOFFICIAL DETOUR PEOPLE USE. SO WE DIDN'T WANT HAVE TO CLOSE THAT ROAD WHILE WE'RE DOING OUR PROJECT AND REALLY MESSING UP TRAFFIC. SO WE'RE WAITING FOR PENNDOT TO DONE, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DONE THE END OF THIS YEAR. SO HOPEFULLY THAT JOB WILL BE DONE NEXT YEAR. IT'S A SMALL STORM SEWER, IT'S NOT A PIPE. WE ALREADY DID THE PIPE REPLACEMENT PART. WE LINED IT BIG PIPE AT THE TOP OF THE HILL AND NOW WE'RE INSTALLING THE SMALL SECTION OF STORM SEWER DOWN BY PER PROCUREMENT TRAIL WHERE WE HAVE AN ICING PROBLEM TO GET THE WATER OUT OF THERE. AND THAT'S BASICALLY ALL I HAVE. ANY QUESTIONS? AND CAN SOME OF THE ITEMS THAT, UH, MIKE JUST MENTIONED ARE IN THE, UH, CAPITAL REPORT? WE DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT, BUT DID YOU WANT TO JUST GIVE A DON GIVE JUST A HIGHLIGHT EARLIER? YEAH, JUST WANT ME TO GO OVER LIKE THE OTHER STUFF WE'RE DOING. YEAH. UM, WE'RE LOOKING TO GET A, A FOR DOMINGO SECOND AVENUE PUMP STATION IMPROVEMENTS. JUST THE STUFF IN THERE IS KIND OF ADEQUATE AND WE'RE JUST TRYING TO UPDATE AND GET IT UP TO FAR. UM, THE SANITARY EASEMENT CLEARING IN DEVELOPMENT, WE'RE GONNA TRY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT AND GET THAT TAKEN CARE OF. THERE'S A LOT OF TREES THAT ARE GOING THAT HOLE RIGHT AWAY. AN EASEMENT BACK THERE. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET IT AND GET IT CLEARED THIS YEAR. IS THIS AN EXISTING EASEMENT? YES, IT WAS AN EASEMENT THAT REALLY HASN'T BEEN CLEARED SINCE THE DEVELOPMENT WAS BUILT. THE RESIDENTS DON'T KNOW, MAYBE DON'T KNOW THAT AND THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THE EASEMENT'S THERE, THEY KNOW THE EASEMENT'S THERE, BUT EVERYTHING JUST OVERGROWN PEOPLE PUT SCHEDULE ON IT AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO WE'RE JUST GONNA GO AND TRY TO BE NICE AND CLEAR SO WE GET TO IT. SO WHAT'S THE 80,000 FOR? I'M SORRY? WHAT'S THE $80,000 FOR? FOR THE COMPANY TO COME IN AND CLEAR IT WITH THE EQUIPMENT THAT, BECAUSE THERE'S SOME BIG TREES IN THERE THAT WE CAN'T GET TO. OKAY. THEY'LL USE SKIDDERS AND STUFF LIKE THAT THERE TO COME IN AND GET IT AND CLEAR IT OUT. I JUST, BECAUSE IT'S ON THE CAPITAL SIDE, THAT'S WHY I WAS WONDERING WHY AS OPPOSED TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PAPER, WHICH IS JUST REPAIRS. UM, BECAUSE ACTUALLY THERE'S NO REPAIRS. IT'S JUST OKAY. IT'S JUST PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE AND TRYING TO GET IT GOING WITH THE AMOUNT OF MONEY WE'RE GONNA TO SPEND. UM, THE RELINE EIGHT INCH CLAY PIPE IN ROSE ROAD AREA OF THE TOWNSHIP, THE UP IN RIVERFORD AREA OF THE TOWNSHIP. THERE'S A LOT OF TERRACOTTA PIPE UP, AIRC CLAY PIPE. IT'S STARTING TO FAIL IN SPOTS. SO WE'RE GONNA RELINE THAT JUST TO HELP US OUT. UM, A NEW PUMP AT THE SECOND AVENUE PUMP STATION, JUST TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE ONE, A BARREL IN HAND THAT ANYTHING WOULD HAPPEN. UM, WE GOT, UH, 250 INCH STORMWATER SYSTEM REPAIR. THAT'S IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENS ALL OF A SUDDEN. THAT'S UNEXPECTED. WE HAVE A 2015 GMC TRUCK IN THERE. THAT'S THE SEWER TRUCK. WE HAVE A FORESTER HEAD FOR THE SKIDSTEER THAT TO DO THE RIGHT OF WAYS, KEEP THE RIGHT OF AWAYS CLEARED AND STUFF. AND WE HAVE A MUFFIN MONSTER FOR SECOND AVENUE PALM STATION. TURN IT OVER. WHAT KIND OF TRUCK? FOR 95,000? LIKE I HAVEN'T SHOPPED FOR A CAR FOR YEARS, BUT 95,000 SEEMS PRETTY. IT WOULD BE 3,500 [00:25:01] LIKE GMC FORD CHEVY WITH THE UTILITY BODY ON A BOX BACK WITH THE BENZ AND ALL. DID, DID WE GO THROUGH COSTARS AND YEAH, WE, WE, SO SINCE COVID HIT, WE USED TO BE ABLE TO BUY TRUCKS FOR $30,000, $40,000. RIGHT. COVID HIT. YOU CAN'T GET THAT DEAL NO MORE. THEY, THEY JUST TAKE THE TOP RIGHT. THEY'LL KNOCK MAYBE $5,000 OFF. THAT'S IT. SO IT'S REALLY BAD FOR US ON THAT PART. WE USED TO GET REALLY GOOD DEALS, LIKE I CAN BUY A TRUCK FITTED FOR $45,000. NO PROBLEM. NOT NO MORE. FOR THOSE OF US WHO DON'T KNOW OR DON'T REMEMBER, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT A FOREST HEAD FOR THE SKID STEER IS AND ALSO WHAT A MUFFIN MONSTER IS? YES. SO A MUFFIN MONSTER IS WHEN YOUR WASTEWATER COMES INTO THE PLANT AND DROPS INTO THE LIGHT OR THE WET WELL IS TO BREAK UP ANY OF THE SOLIDS COMING THROUGH. SO YOU DON'T HAVE THE SOLIDS RUNNING THROUGH THE PUMPS. IT JUST GRINDS EVERYTHING UP, DUMPS IT INTO THE WET WELL AND THEN IT PUMPS OUT THE FORCE SPRINGS. THE FORESTRY HEAD IS UM, SEVEN TWO INCH WIDE HEAD THAT GOES ON IN FRONT OF A SKID STEER. WE NORMALLY RENT THAT, BUT WHEN YOU RENT IT, YOU PRETTY MUCH RENT IT. IF IT RAINS OR YOU GET, YOU STILL PAY FOR IT. IF WE HAVE IT ON HAND, WE CAN UTILIZE IT MORE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR. WHAT IT, WHAT IT IS, IT'S GOT BIG UM, CARBIDE HAMMERS ON IT. IT'LL TAKE A SIX EIGHT INCH STREET DOWN WITH NO PROBLEM. SO IF WE WENT TO, WE GET INTO THESE RIGHT OF WAYS, EASEMENTS AND STUFF THAT WE GOT CLEAR, WE'LL HAVE THE PROBLEM DOING IT. AND THEN IF THEY ARE LIKE GEORGE AND THE GUYS WOULD GO IN THERE CLEARING THE RIGHT OF WAYS AND CLEANING UP THE SIDES, THEY CAN DROP ALL THAT BRUSH DOWN. THAT FORESTRY HEAD WILL TAKE EVERYTHING THAT'S LAYING ALL THE BRUSH AND JUST GRIND IT UP AND MAKES IT REAL NICE. MULES IT RIGHT UP YOU NOW? YES. QUESTIONS? ANYBODY? ANYBODY? ALRIGHT. RIGHT. DO YOU WANT ME TO GO OVER TO SEWER AND STORMWATERS MAINTENANCE REPAIRS? SURE. ALRIGHT, SO ROOF CUTTING SEAL LATERALS, TOWNSHIP WIDE. THAT'S ON GONE JUST TO KEEP OUR SYSTEM TIGHT. THE MANHOLE CEILING, SAME THING. IT'S JUST MAINTENANCE ON OUR STUFF AND KEEPING EVERYTHING TIGHT. EXCUSE ME. THE NUMBERS THAT ARE HERE, ARE THEY FOR MATERIALS INVOLVED IN THIS OR IT'S MATERIAL AND LABOR? IT'S, SO THIS IS OUTSOURCED LABOR? YEAH. SEWER SPECIALTY DOES IT. OKAY. COURSE WE DON'T HAVE THE TRUCKS AND THE EQUIPMENT TO DO IT. THEY COME IN, THEY TELL THE DE JET STUFF, PATCH REPAIR WHEN THEY'RE TELEVISED AND AC, IF LIKE A JOINT IS BAD THEY CAN PATCH THAT JOINT, GRAB THAT JOINT REAL QUICK. TIME AND MONEY SAVED. MM-HMM . UM, I AND I EMERGENCY REPAIRS, IT'S STUFF THAT HAPPENS THAT YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN IT'S GONNA HAPPEN. UH, TUBE GUN CEPT CLEANING AND REHAB BECAUSE WE HAD THAT INCIDENT A YEAR AGO, A YEAR AND A HALF AGO WITH THE HOLE ON THE BIKE WITH THEM IN THEIR INSPECT. THAT'S WHAT CAUGHT IT. WE SEEN IT. IT'S ALL VISING. INSPECTION IS A ROUTINE THING. WHAT WE DO IS WE GOT 10 SECTIONS OF THE TOWNSHIP THAT WE CIRCLE AND WE DO IT EVERY 10 YEARS. FOUR YEARS. WELL THE PLAN IS TO DO IT, THE PLAN IS TO DO THE TOWNSHIP UH, IN A 10 YEAR CYCLE. SO WE BROKE THE TOWNSHIP UP INTO 10 SECTIONS AND THE SCHULE RIVER INTERCEPTOR IS ITS OWN SECTION 'CAUSE IT'S SO LARGE AND SO, SO LONG. AND THEN THE LAST ONE IS QUORUM. YOU WANNA SPEAK ON RUM OR YOU RUM IS IT A SYSTEM THAT WE PUT INTO ATTENDING RUM PUMP STATION TO KILL THE ODOR? THEY PUT BUGS IN THE AIR INTO THE SYSTEM, INTO THE WET WELLS. WE'RE LOOKING TO INCORPORATE THAT INTO MINGO AND SECOND AVENUE PUMP STATIONS AS WELL TO TRY TO EAT THE ODOR AND CUT DOWN THE SMALL STUFF FROM WEAR NOSE POTS. WE DON'T HAVE TO WEAR NOSE PLUGS. NO. SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO WEAR AN H BLOCK. IT ALSO, IT ALSO CUTS DOWN ON THE H TWO S IN THE SYSTEM WHICH EATS, EATS THE PIPE. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY. UM, [6. Review 2026 proposed sewer budget] 2026. PROPOSED SEWER BUDGET. I GUESS THAT'S SORT OF IT. THAT'S IT BASICALLY. ALRIGHT. IS THERE ANY OTHER BUSINESS FOR THE AUTHORITY? UH, HEARING NONE. I WILL TAKE A MOTION FOR AN ADJOURN. [00:30:01] SO MOVED. SECOND. SECOND. OKAY. MOVED AND SECONDED. ANY, ANY DISCUSSION? I HOPE NOT. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. BE OPPOSED EXTENSIONS. THANK YOU. THE MEETING IS OVER. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.