[00:00:01]
[CALL TO ORDER / MOTION TO APPROVE SEPTEMBER 3, 2025 AGENDA]
GOOD EVENING.WE'RE GONNA CALL THE ORDER THE, UM, SEPTEMBER THE THIRD.
WHERE DID THE SUMMER GO? ANYBODY SEE IT? GO ANYWHERE.
CATCH SUMMER, UM, 2025, UH, FOR THE, UH, OPERA PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND WITH THAT WE'LL START WITH, UM, UH, MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA THAT'S BEEN PUT FORWARD.
THERE'S COPIES IN THE BACK IF NOBODY GOT 'EM.
BUT, UH, EVERYBODY LOOK AT THE AGENDA THIS EVENING, GENTLEMEN.
AND IF ANYBODY HAS A MOTION TO APPROVE THAT, I'LL TAKE THAT.
BOB'S MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
SO WE GOT AN AGENDA, JEFF, AND IT'S NOT THE ONE FROM MEGAN.
NO, I DID NOT MAKE THAT MISTAKE.
I RECOVERED FROM MY VACATION AHEAD.
UM, AND WITH THAT THEN THE NEXT THING ON OUR, UH, AGENDA IS A PUBLIC COMMENT ON NON-AGENDA ITEMS. SO THESE WOULD BE THINGS THAT ARE NOT ON THE CURRENT AGENDA THAT SOMEBODY IN THE PUBLIC WANTS TO MAKE A COMMENT.
AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S YOU.
SO WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY, I ASSUME EVERYBODY ELSE IS HERE FOR A SPECIFIC REASON.
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON SEPTEMBER 3, 2025]
THAT, WE MOVE TO APPLICATIONS BEING HEARD TONIGHT AND WE HAVE, UM, THE FOLKS FROM EMORY MANOR WHO ARE GONNA TELL US ALL ABOUT THEIR WONDERFUL, UH, PROJECT.AND IT LOOKS LIKE THEY GOT A GROUP MORE MORE THAN US.
WE, WE CAN'T EVEN FIGHT WITH 'EM.
I DON'T WHAT'S WHOLE BUNCH OF, UNFORTUNATELY IT'S JUST ME.
WELL, WE CAN TAKE YOU THEN, JUSTIN.
MY NAME IS JUSTIN STRAYHORN WITH WB HOMES.
UH, WE ARE THE OWNER OF EMERY MANOR, THE ROUGHLY EIGHT ACRE PIECE OF GROUND, UH, ALONG SOUTH TRAP ROAD WITH ALSO FRONTAGE ARM PERSIMMON DRIVE.
I WAS HERE I BELIEVE A YEAR AGO WHERE WE INTRODUCED THIS SEVEN LOT SUBDIVISION.
UH, AT THAT TIME THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED, UH, TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN APPROVAL.
WENT TO THE BOARD, THEY APPROVED, UH, TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN APPROVAL SUBSEQUENT YEAR, WORKED THROUGH ENGINEERING, UH, OUTSIDE AGENCY REVIEWS, HAD MULTIPLE MEETINGS WITH STAFF AND ENGINEERS TO WORK THROUGH, UH, THE PROJECT AND THE DETAILS.
UM, ONE ITEM I WOULD LIKE TO NOTE BEFORE I MOVE FORWARD WAS, UH, ONE REALLY ONLY MAJOR PLAN CHANGE.
IF YOU RECALL, THERE'S AN EXISTING HOME AND GARAGE THAT FRONTS SOUTH TRAP ROAD.
SO WE WERE GONNA PROPOSE SIX NEW HOMES AND THE SEVENTH LOT, A CONFORMING LOT FOR THAT HOME AND FURTHER EVALUATION OF THAT HOME.
AND THEN SOME FEEDBACK FROM ONE OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
WE EVALUATED THAT AND THOUGHT, YOU KNOW WHAT? IT DOESN'T REALLY FIT THE CHARACTER OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT DOESN'T FIT THE CHARACTER OF, UH, THE SORT OF INFILL NATURE OF THIS JOB.
AND QUITE FRANKLY, PULLING OUT ONTO SOUTH TRAP ROAD FROM THAT DRIVEWAY WAS A LITTLE HAIRY TO SAY THE LEAST.
THE HOUSE WASN'T IN GREAT, UH, CONDITION.
SO WE MADE THE DETERMINATION TO GO AHEAD WITH, UH, DEMOLISHING THE HOME AND GARAGE AND THEN BUILDING A NEW HOME, UH, ON THAT LOT, THAT LOT WILL HAVE DRIVEWAY ACCESS TO THE CUL-DE-SAC.
AGAIN, WE FEEL THAT'S A SAFER, MORE APPROPRIATE, UH, USE FOR THAT LOT.
AND ALSO BASED OFF THE FEEDBACK FROM ONE OF THE, UH, SUPERVISORS THAT IS THE, I'LL CALL IT THE ONLY CHANGE TO THE DEVELOPMENT SINCE IT WAS AT SKETCH PLAN WHEN THAT HOUSE WAS THERE PRIOR TO YOUR CHANGE, IT DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE, TO, UH, SOUTH TRAP RIVER.
IT, IT WAS SORT OF A SHARED DRIVEWAY WITH THE HOUSE NEXT TO IT AND PULLING OUT WAS REALLY DIFFICULT.
WELL, THAT, THAT'S A GOOD THING.
SO LOTS SAFER OF A MOVEMENT, OBVIOUSLY KEEPING IT INTERNAL TO THE NEW, UH, PROPOSED CUL-DE-SAC.
WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO BRING THAT STUFF OUT THEN? I YOU NEED A BIGGER PLAN.
YOU MEAN JEFF, DO YOU HAVE A POINTER THAT WE WORK ON THIS? I MEAN, I SEE THE STUFF JUST ENDING, SO LOOK THAT A WAY HERE.
SO YOU SAY WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S ON THAT LEFT CORNER.
SO THERE'S THE CUL-DE-SAC HERE IS LOT SEVEN, AND THEN THIS IS A LONGER DRIVEWAY THAT COMES OUT TO THE CUL-DE-SAC.
I THINK ASKING IS, WHERE DOES THE COME OUT? WHERE DOES THAT I WHAT DOES THE EXISTING STUB? YEAH, THE ELEMENTARY CORNER WHERE IT'S NOT AN EXISTING STU BERRY COURT WHERE GOES OUT.
AND THAT'S IN THAT DEVELOPMENT? YES.
I DIDN'T SEE WHERE THAT WOULD BE BECAUSE OH, IT'S THERE.
SO THERE IS A BLACK FENCE THAT SPANS THE RIGHT.
IT WOULD BE IN THE DEAD CENTER OF THAT BLACK FENCE.
WOULD WHERE WOULD WHERE YEAH, WE WOULD TIE IN.
I'M SORRY, I MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR QUESTION.
BASICALLY WE ARE COMING FROM HERE IN TO A CUL-DE-SAC
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OFF OF PERSIMMON.SO NO ACCESS ON SOUTH TRAP ROAD.
IS THAT, THAT REAL BIG CUL-DE-SAC THAT'S BACK IN THERE? IT'S NOT THERE YET.
OUR CUL-DE-SAC IS NOT THERE YET.
NO, I I DIDN'T MEAN YOUR CUL-DE-SAC.
I'M TALKING ABOUT WHERE IT TIES IN.
NO, IT, IT IS REALLY JUST SORT OF RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF PERSIMMON DRIVE BETWEEN THE TWO LARGER SUBDIVISIONS.
SHOULDN'T YOU BE SHOWING THAT ON OUR, ON A PLAN? IT'S THERE.
THIS, THIS TO THE LEFT THERE OFF.
THAT'S WHAT THIS IS, RIGHT? YOU CAN SEE IT HERE.
AND, AND ALL OF THE, WHERE THE OLD HOME THAT YOU'RE DEMOLISHING WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT IS A LONG TRAP ROAD.
THAT'S ALL THEY, AS YOU SAID, THE, I ASSUME IT'S A RETENTION BASIN AND TREES AND IT'S ALL JUST STRAIGHT LINE, NOTHING GOING ON THE TRAP ROAD PERIOD.
OTHER THAN THERE WILL BE A, A, UH, ASPHALT TRAIL PER THE ORDINANCE RIGHT HERE ALONG THAT FRONTAGE, CORRECT? YES.
AND THEN, YEAH, THE BASIN IN THE REAR HEAVILY LANDSCAPED TO TRY AND BUFFER SOUTH TRAP ROAD TO LOT SEVEN.
I DO LIKE THAT IDEA MUCH BETTER.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? WHAT UM, WHAT, WHAT'S THE, UH, WHAT, AND I MIGHT HAVE ASKED YOU THIS WHEN YOU WERE HERE.
WHATEVER IT WAS BEFORE, UH, THINGS JUST RUN TOGETHER, BUT WHAT, UH, WHAT'S THE PRICE OF THESE HOMES GONNA START AT BE AROUND, UH, ONE TO 1.3 MILLION SIMILAR PRICES TO OUR MEADOWS AT LONGVIEW PROJECT THAT'S JUST WRAPPING UP OFF OF GREENWOOD AVENUE AND THE SIZE OF THE LOT? UH, ACRE.
THE LOT SEVEN'S A LITTLE LARGER.
THAT'S LIKE 70,000 SQUARE FEET.
BUT YOU GIMME A LOT OF BUFFER ON THAT ONE SIDE, RIGHT? CORRECT.
THERE'S A LOT OF BUFFER ALL THE WAY AROUND THE ENTIRE PROPERTY.
AND YOUR, DID I READ THAT BACKGROUND MATERIAL SO THAT YOU'RE ALSO SEEKING SEVERAL WAIVERS? THERE ARE, THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF WAIVERS, YES.
WHICH I'LL SAY MINIMAL IN RELIEF, BUT IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO GO THROUGH EACH ONE I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO OR WELL, HOW MANY? HOW MANY? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
EIGHT I THINK YOU HAVE GO THROUGH QUICKLY.
IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S NOT VERY IMPORTANT, WE'LL TELL YOU TO MOVE ON.
YOU READY TO GO THROUGH WAIVERS NOW? YEP.
UH, THE FIRST WAIVER IS A WAIVER TO UTILIZE AN AERIAL PLAN AND LIDAR TO DEPICT SURROUNDING FEATURES, UH, IN LIEU OF SURVEY WITHIN A HUNDRED FEET OF THE PROPERTY.
THAT'S JUST SHOWING SURROUNDING CONTEXT TO THE, UH, PROPERTY.
UH, DID YOU SOMEBODY POINT AS TO WHERE ON THE GILMORE LETTERS? UM, PAGE 16 OF YOUR PACKET IS THE SAGE LETTER.
UM, NUMBER TWO WOULD BE A WAIVER FROM IDENTIFYING THE SIZE OF SPECIES OF TREES TO BE REMOVED FROM THE AREA OF A WOOD.
SO THE TRACK BOUNDARIES, WE DID HAVE AN LA GO AROUND AND IDENTIFY, UH, SELECT SPECIMEN TREES AROUND THE PROPERTY.
ONES TO BE REMA TO BE RE RETAINED.
THERE IS A LOT OF SCRUB BRUSH SORT OF DEAD TREES ON THE PROPERTY.
SO THAT WAS EVALUATED, BUT IT IS A WAIVER FROM, UH, A COMPLETE INVENTORY OF THE ENTIRE PROPERTY.
COULD WE PAUSE ON THAT ONE? YES SIR.
JEN, I'M WONDERING THAT WAS YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THE WAIVER REQUESTS IN THE BACKGROUND MATERIALS? YEAH, IT WAS.
AND UM, JUSTIN AND I HAD A CALL ALONG WITH HIS ENGINEER TWO WEEKS AGO, UM, TO GO THROUGH THESE ITEMS. WE DON'T TAKE ANY ISSUE WITH ANY OF THESE ITEMS THAT ARE ON HERE.
THEY DID, UM, IDENTIFY AS JUSTIN SAID, GO AROUND THE PERIMETER AND FIND THE SPECIMEN TREES WORTH KEEPING.
BUT YEAH, ESPECIALLY IF YOU LOOK, IT'S ALL TANGLED IN THAT BLACK FENCE THAT'S OUT THERE.
AND THEN I HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF NORWAY MAPLES ON RIGHT ON MY FENCE LINE.
SO I THAT UM, AND THEN I THOUGHT THERE WAS ANOTHER, OR MAYBE IT'S THE SAME WAIVER, BUT ABOUT IDENTIFYING THE TYPE AND UM, I'M GONNA BUTCHER IT JEN, BUT THE, BASICALLY THE SIZE OF THE TREE WHEN IT IS PLANTED IN THE PLAN IN THAT DETAIL MISSING STILL, IS THAT RIGHT? NO, I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
I THINK, NO, I THINK OUR PLANTING CHART SAYS SIZE AND SPECIES TREES THAT THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP AND THEY ARE KEEPING A COUPLE OUT ON PERON ROAD WHEN YOU DRIVE BY AGAIN AND LOOK AT THAT BLACK FENCE, THERE'S SOME REALLY TALL TREES THERE AND THEY'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO RETAIN SOME OF THEM.
YEAH, THE ONE REASON I WAS ASKING IS THAT, I KNOW YOU GUYS HAVE MENTIONED IT BEFORE AND I DRIVE BY IT ALL THE TIME ON THE WAY HERE, BUT THERE'S THOSE TOWNHOUSES, I THINK THEY'RE TOWNHOUSES RIGHT ON BRIDGE STREET OVER THERE.
YOU CAN SEE THE BACKYARD BECAUSE WE HADN'T DISCOVERED BI YET OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I CAN'T REMEMBER YOU GUYS BROUGHT THIS UP A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.
BUT THAT'LL NOW BE INSTEAD OF THE FRONT OF AN OLDER HOUSE, WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN TRAP, YOU'LL BE LOOKING AT THE BACK OF A NEWER HOUSE.
AND SO THE TREES THAT ARE BEING PLANTED THERE THAT I CAN SEE REALLY CLEARLY ON THE DIAGRAM, THAT WOULD BE ADEQUATE TO EVENTUALLY
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PROVIDE SHADING AND WOULD COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE.UH, NUMBER THREE IS A WAIVER FROM PROVIDING CAR WEIGHT WIDTH OF 40 FEET ALONG SOUTH TRAP ROAD.
UM, THAT'S JUST IN OUR AREA OF FRONTAGE.
THAT TO US DID NOT MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO WIDEN TO 40 FEET.
THE CART WEIGHT IS CONSISTENT UP AND DOWN TRAP ROAD AND I THINK YOU ALL KNOW IF YOU MAKE IT WIDER, PEOPLE GO FASTER.
UH, THE NEXT WOULD BE A WAIVER FROM PROVIDING A MINIMUM CART WAY WIDTH OF 32 FEET ALONG PER PERCENTAGE DRIVE.
ITS CART WAY IS 30 WIDTH WITH SIDEWALK ON BOTH SIDES.
AGAIN, DOESN'T SEEM APPROPRIATE TO WIDEN IT TWO FEET WHEN IT'S AN EXISTING NEIGHBORHOOD.
UH, NUMBER FOUR, TO ALLOW DRIVEWAYS ALONG THE FRONT IS WHILE TWO DRIVEWAYS ALONG THE LOT FRONTAGE OF LOT FOUR BECAUSE WE ARE BRINGING OUT LOT SEVEN ON LOT FOUR.
LOT FOUR HAS A CURB CUT HERE AND THEN LOT SEVEN IS JUST OVER HERE.
SO LOT FOUR WILL HAVE TWO CURB CUTS FOR THE DRIVEWAYS ON THE FRONTAGE OF THE LOT.
UH, AND THAT, THAT WILL BE AN EASEMENT OR OWNED BY THE HOA FOR LOT SEVEN.
LOT SEVEN THAT WILL FULLY BE ENCOMPASSED IN AN EASEMENT.
AND THAT DRIVEWAY IS ALSO A CONTROLLED FACILITY WITHIN THE HOA DECLARATION THAT IS RECORDED AGAINST THE LOT.
UH, NOW WILL THIS HOA BE PART OF THE, THE OTHER COMMUNITIES AROUND? NO.
GONNA BE A SINGLE IT'S STANDALONE.
NUMBER FIVE IS PROVIDING A WAIVER OR A WAIVER FROM CURB ALONG THE SITE FRONTAGE OF SOUTH TRAP ROAD.
AGAIN, THERE IS NO CURVING UP AND DOWN SOUTH TRAP ROAD.
WE DON'T NEED IT FOR DRAINAGE, ET CETERA.
UH, LOT SIX HAS TO DO, UH, WITH TWO TO ONE BASEMENT EMBANKMENT SLOPES TO MEET THE LARGE SURFACE AREA REQUIREMENTS FOR THE MRC BASIN.
UH, WE UTILIZE TWO TO ONE INTERNAL SLOPES FOR THE STORMWATER FACILITIES.
IT ALLOWS TO KEEP THE FOOTPRINT SMALLER WHILE STILL UTILIZING, UH, THE MRC CRITERIA.
IT DOES NOT HAVE A FUNCTION AT ALL ON THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT.
AND AGAIN, THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT WILL BE OWNED AND MAINTAINED BY THE HOA, THE TOWNSHIP HAS NO OBLIGATION OR MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITIES.
QUICK QUESTION ON THAT, JUST 'CAUSE AND I'LL ADMIT THAT I SKIMMED IT 'CAUSE THERE WAS A LOT IN HERE.
I THOUGHT THERE WAS SOMETHING IN THERE ABOUT LIKE A, AN O AND M AGREEMENT WITH THE TOWNSHIP.
THAT'S, THAT'S ALWAYS A STANDARD, UH, OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT WITH THE TOWNSHIP.
AND THE FACT THE H-O-O-B-H-O-A BECOMES NEGLIGENT IN MAINTAINING THE STORM WATER.
THE TOWNSHIP HAS THE RIGHT TO COME IN AND PERFORM THE MAINTENANCE AND THEN BACK CHARGE THE HOA.
SO THAT IS ESSENTIALLY JUST AN AGREEMENT WE WOULD GET INTO AT, AT FINAL PLAN.
UH, SEVEN AND EIGHT HAVE TO DO WITH STORM WATER SEVEN.
DO WE REQUIRE SOMETHING LIKE SEVEN LOTS REQUIRE ANY AMOUNT OF MONIES THAT THEY START THE ASSOCIATION WITH? 'CAUSE I CAN JUST SAY SEVEN HOMES, THEY'RE GONNA GET
I WOULD DEFER TO ZACH ON THE H OA RULES ON THAT.
I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT THAT WORKS.
SO WITH THE HOA, THEY WOULD PROVIDE US WITH THE DOCUMENTS, UH, THAT WE WOULD THEN REVIEW.
THAT'D BE PART OF THE DEVELOPER'S AGREEMENT.
UM, IN TERMS OF REQUIRING CERTAIN AMOUNTS OF MONEY.
I MEAN THAT WOULD BE SPECIFIED IN DOCUMENTS, UH, AS TO WHAT THE PAYMENTS WOULD BE AND HOW THEY WOULD GO ABOUT COLLECTING THAT.
UM, I MEAN, THAT'S KIND OF FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD FOR DETERMINING THAT.
THAT'S I DON'T THINK WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF ZONING OR, OR REALLY ANYTHING WE CAN REQUIRE THEM TO HAVE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF FUNDING FROM THE DEVELOPER IN THE BEGINNING.
THEY JUST, I I THINK THEY HAVE TO SELF-FUND AND SEE HOW IT GOES.
AND, AND TYPICALLY WITH THE HOAS UNTIL, I MEAN, IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW THE DOCUMENTS ARE DRAFTED, BUT IT, THE, THE DEVELOPER DOESN'T TURN OVER THE OWNERSHIP OF THE HO A UNTIL THERE'S A CERTAIN THRESHOLD OF OWNERSHIP WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT.
SO I MEAN, ANY EXPENSES WOULD BE BROUGHT OR WOULD BE CARRIED BY THE DEVELOPER UNTIL A CERTAIN POINT AND THEN THEY'D HAVE TO ESTABLISH BE AS PART OF THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS AND SELL PROCESS.
THEY CONTINUE TO BE OPERATE, YEAH.
THE DEVELOPER WOULD STAY IN THE PROCESS UNTIL, UNTIL THEY GET WE ALSO HAVE, YEAH, WV GOES TO CONSTRUCT THIS.
WE REQUIRE THAT THEY PUT UP A LETTER OF CREDIT, A BOND, ANY SORT OF FINANCIAL SECURITY SO THAT WE HOLD THAT IN CASE THEY DON'T FINISH PROPERLY IF SOMETHING WERE TO HAPPEN.
WE MAKE SURE THAT BY THE, BY THE TIME IT'S CLOSED OUT AS A DEVELOPMENT, ALL OF THE, ALL OF THE PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS MEET OUR STANDARDS AND ARE, ARE DONE CORRECTLY SO THAT WHEN IT IS TURNED OVER THE HOA, ALL OF THOSE IMPROVEMENTS ARE DONE TO A STANDARD AND THERE IS AN 18 MONTH MAINTENANCE BOND.
SO EVEN AFTER THE DEVELOPMENT'S DONE AND THE DEVELOPERS KIND OF WALKED AWAY, THERE'S STILL FUNDS RETAINED TO MONITOR AND MAKE SURE THAT ALL THE IMPROVEMENTS ARE AS
AND THAT'S ALL SET BY THE NPC AND THAT'S ALL STANDARD AND DEVELOPMENTS.
AND, AND MAYBE THAT WILL WORK OUT.
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ALTHOUGH IF YOU HAVE 200, 300, 400 HOMES, IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT MULTIPLIER FOR COMING UP WITH MEETING CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS.UM, I GUESS THAT EVERYTHING IS BUILT EXACTLY THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY STORMS AND NOTHING GOES WRONG.
WELL, THE TOWNSHIP ENSURES WE BUILD EVERYTHING PER THE PLANS
AS, AS DOES THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT.
BUT, BUT JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, JUST TO, TO CIRCLE BACK ON WHAT THE SOLICITOR WAS SAYING, WE DO COME UP WITH A BUDGET FOR OUR HOA AND THERE IS INITIAL CONTRIBUTION THAT EACH HOMEOWNER HAS TO PUT IN TO GET, TO GET SORT OF A BANKROLL STARTED WHEN THEY PURCHASE THE HOUSE.
SO THEY'RE NOT STARTING WITH NOTHING.
WE DO REQUIRE THAT OF THE, OF THE HOMEOWNERS AND YEAH, IT'S USUALLY 50 70% OF THE HOMES.
ONCE WE GET THOSE SOLD, THEN IT'S FULLY TURNED OVER TO DHOA.
BUT WE WB HOMES, WE RUN THE SHOW UNTIL 50 TO 70% OF THE HOMES ARE, ARE, UH, ARE SOLD.
BUT AGAIN, WE'RE ON THE HOOK FOR ALL THE IMPROVEMENTS AND THROUGH THE MAINTENANCE PERIOD.
UH, THIS IS TO ALLOW DEWATERING TIME FOR THE MRC BASIN BETWEEN 24 AND 72 HOURS.
THIS IS JUST KEEPING AKIN WITH THE MODERN MPDS UH, REQUIREMENTS.
AND THEN ALSO NUMBER EIGHT IS NO DROP ACROSS JUNCTIONS TO NOT MATCH PIPE CROWN SLOPES.
UH, THIS IS A RELATIVELY FLAT SITE IN AREA, SO IT WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO HAVE COVER OVER THE PIPE.
SO WE JUST NEEDED A WAIVER, UH, OF THAT SPECIFIC INLET REQUIREMENT.
AND SO I JUST HEARD JEN SAY YOU HAD NO PROBLEM WITH ANYTHING.
YOU, YOU'RE COLD WITH 'EM ALL.
SO THAT THAT'S GOOD FOR YOUR RIGHT.
HOW ABOUT, UH, BRIAN, HOW ABOUT YOU? ANYTHING WITH TRAFFIC? I MEAN, THESE SEVEN PLACES COULD HAVE BIG TRUCKS OR SOMETHING.
NOT A LARGE CONCERN, NOT A USER.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.
I WAS, EXCEPT FOR MOVING IN DAVE.
JUST BECAUSE WE'VE HAD A LOT OF, UH, OUR CURRENT, UH, PROJECTS WITH TOWNSHIP.
HAS THERE BEEN ANY PUSHBACK FROM ANY OF THE NEIGHBORS SO FAR ON ANY OF THIS? DID ANYBODY QUESTION ANYTHING? ANYBODY HAVE ANY CONCERNS? ANY OF THE NEIGHBORS COME TO YOU OR COME TO SOMEBODY AT YOUR COMPANY AND ASK QUESTIONS? SURE.
I GOT TO KNOW MARK AND FORGIVE ME, I FORGET WHAT HIS LAST NAME IS.
HE LIVES THE HOUSE RIGHT BEHIND THIS UNIT.
HE AND I GOT TO KNOW EACH OTHER VERY WELL, VERY FRIENDLY.
UH, HE HAD SOME DRAINAGE CONCERNS BACK THERE.
THAT'S SORT OF A, A PONDING AREA ON HIS, NOT HIS PROPERTY, BUT OUR PROPERTY.
SO I WALK THROUGH HIM WHAT MODERN STORM WATER MANAGEMENT LOOKS LIKE AND IT SHOULD GREATLY, UM, CLEAN UP HIS REAR YARD.
SO HE WAS REALLY THE ONLY ONE.
UH, AGAIN, HE AND I CHAT EVERY MONTH AND A HALF, JUST GIVE UPDATES WHERE WE ARE WITH THE PROJECT.
UM, THIS GENTLEMAN ON THIS CORNER DID EXPRESS WANTING TO POSSIBLY SELL TO US AT ONE POINT THAT SORT OF FELL THROUGH, BUT ANY OTHER NEIGHBORS KNOW.
AND LIKE I SAID, JUST BECAUSE WE'VE HAD A LOT OF CURRENT PROJECTS WHERE WE GET A LOT OF FEEDBACK FROM NEIGHBORS.
BUT YOU, THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE RIGHT NOW.
THAT'S OTHER THAN MARK THAT THAT'S BEEN YEP.
BECAUSE YOU ARE COMING INTO THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT? I MEAN THEY PROBABLY YES.
AN OPEN SPACE AND I UNDERSTOOD.
THEY PROBABLY WALK THEIR DOGS OR WHATEVER.
SO WHAT ARE WE LOOKING FOR RIGHT HERE? BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING, UH, PRELIMINARY, FINAL, CORRECT JEFF.
THEY, THEY ARE REQUESTING TO BE INCLUDED THAT TO GO PRELIMINARY AND FINAL AT THE SAME TIME.
SO THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION.
THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS RELATED TO PRELIMINARY FINAL APPROVAL, THEIR PLANS, UM, I THINK AS JEN AND BRIAN SAID, THEY RELATIVELY CLEAN LETTERS AND DOESN'T SEEM THAT ANY OF THE WAIVERS ARE PROBLEMATIC.
SO, UM, JUST REALLY QUICK BECAUSE I YOU'RE DOING FINAL TWO AND I THOUGHT I SAW AN UNRESOLVED ISSUE WITH THE FIRE MARSHAL THAT HAD TO DO WITH LOT SEVEN.
I DID SPEAK WITH THE FIRE MARSHAL TODAY.
I UNDERSTOOD HIS CONCERNS, FLOATED SOME IDEAS BY HIM.
I SAID WE CAN DEFINITELY COME UP WITH SOME TURNING MOVEMENTS.
HE JUST WANTS TO BE ABLE TO GET HIS TRUCK DOWN.
HE SAID, YOU AND I CAN WORK THROUGH THAT.
HE DIDN'T SEEM OVERLY CONCERNED.
AND WE'LL JUST WORK THROUGH THE DETAILS WITH HIM.
UH, AS WE SUBMIT THE FINAL PLANS.
AND EVEN IF YOU MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR PRELIMINARY FINAL TONIGHT, THEY WON'T GO ON THE BOARD AGENDA TILL I HAVE A COMPLETE SIGN OFF FROM JEN, BRIAN AND THE FIRE MARSHAL.
SO WHILE THERE MAY BE ISSUES IN THEIR LETTERS NOW, THEY WILL BE CLEANED UP IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS BEFORE IT GOES IN FRONT OF THE SUPERVISOR, BEFORE IT GOES IN FRONT OF THE SUPERVISORS.
I MEAN, IS IS THERE ANY REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, UH, PRELIMINARY AND FINAL IN TERMS OF WHAT ENGINEERING OR ACTIVITY HAS TO OCCUR GENERALLY? NO.
I, THERE'S NO NEW REQUIREMENTS AT FINAL.
FINAL IS REALLY CLEANING EVERYTHING UP THAT WE DID THAT WE DIDN'T GET THROUGH IN, IN PRELIMINARY.
AND A LOT OF IT, FOR ME AT LEAST, IS GETTING THE WAIVERS ON THE PLANS.
'CAUSE WAIVERS ARE USUALLY GRANTED A PRELIMINARY, YOU WANT THEM NOTED ON THE FINAL PLAN SET
[00:20:01]
SO THAT THEY SORT OF GET MEMORIALIZED AND THEN WHEN THEY GET ON THE RECORDING SET, THEY ARE TRULY MEMORIALIZED.SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE DO VERY OFTEN.
UM, THAT, THAT'S REALLY WHERE I WAS GOING WITH THIS FOR, FOR BIGGER DEVELOPMENTS WHERE THERE'S MORE QUESTIONS.
WE TEND TO NOT, AND WE, WE'VE GOTTEN AWAY FROM IT IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.
IT USED TO BE WHERE WE WOULD JUST DO IT ADMINISTRATIVELY THAT YOU WOULDN'T EVEN SEE IT.
WE'VE COMPLETELY GOTTEN AWAY WITH GOTTEN AWAY FROM THAT NOW, UM, FOR DEVELOPMENT OF THIS SIZE, IT'S GENERALLY, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S NOT ALL OF THE QUESTIONS ARE CLEANED UP.
THEY DID TAKE A A LONGER TIME BETWEEN TENTATIVE AND PRELIMINARY THAN WHAT WOULD BE NORMAL.
SO, I MEAN, IT WAS ALMOST A YEAR YOU SAID JUSTIN.
SO, YOU KNOW, WITH YEAR, THAT, THAT'S REALLY LONG, ESPECIALLY FOR DEVELOPMENT OF THIS SIZE.
SO IT, UM, THAT'S WHY I'M COMFORTABLE SAYING THAT I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, WITH THE BOARD MAKING THAT RECOMMENDATION AS LONG AS JEN IS ON BOARD WITH THE WAIVERS AND, AND, UH, EVERYTHING ELSE THAT, UH, HAS BEEN MENTIONED.
UH, JUST JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, WOULD YOU, UH, HAVE A DEVELOPMENT, LIKE EVEN THOUGH IT'S SMALL MM-HMM
DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANY CONTACT WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD, WITH THE, WITH THE SCHOOLS? UH, SOMETIMES WE DO.
USUALLY WITH A JOB THIS SMALL, USUALLY NOT.
WE HAVE ONE IN, IN LEHIGH THAT'S 116.
WE, I'M JUST SPECIFICALLY THIS ONE.
IF THEY, IF THERE'S ANY QUESTION, YOU GO TO THEM AND SAY, HEY, WE'RE GONNA PUT UP SEVEN HOUSES, COULD BE UP TO 15, WHATEVER KIDS PER HOUSE OR WHATEVER, 15 MINUTES PER HOUSE.
THESE ARE DEEP DAYCARE PLACES.
I JUST, I WAS JUST A CURIOUS QUESTION ON MY OWN.
ALRIGHT, SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THIS? UH, FOR THE PEOPLE? NO.
SO THEN I, I'LL, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO, UH, TO MOVE THIS, UH, TO THE SUPERVISOR WITH A RECOMMENDATION OF FINAL APPROVAL.
I MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR FINAL ASK.
ANYBODY OUT THERE THAT WANTS TO MAKE A COMMENT ON THIS? DON'T HOLD BACK.
ALL RIGHT, NOW I'LL MAKE MY RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL.
KEVIN'S MADE A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL OF THIS TO GO TO THE, UH, SUPERVISORS AS FINAL APPROVAL.
RECOMMENDATION, OR WHAT A SECOND.
YOU STICK AROUND AND HEAR THE OTHER ONES IF YOU WANT.
ARE YOU WAITING AROUND? DO YOU NEED THIS SIGNATURE OR DO I SCAN IT AND GET IT TO YOU ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THEY'RE GONNA PROVE IT? YES.
THAT'S A YES TO TWO QUESTIONS.
UM, CAN I WAIT AROUND FOR HIM? I'M NOT, I DON'T THINK WE'RE FULL.
SO, WELL, WE LIKE HALF PEOPLE.
ANYTHING ELSE? THINK, I THINK HE'S HAD PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR MIND.
I'M LENIENT TO STAY, BUT I I TRUST YOU ALL.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
WHAT IS THE NEXT THING YOU DID? THE NEXT THING IS, IS MINUTES.THE, THE AGENDA'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT TODAY BECAUSE I THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE TWO LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS WHEN 5 92 PULLED OFF OKAY.
OF, OF THE APPLICATION THAT I DIDN'T WANNA MOVE EVERYTHING AROUND.
SO IT IS A LITTLE OUT OF ORDER FOR US.
SO WE'RE APPROVING THE MINUTES FROM JULY 16TH AND 20TH.
AND THAT PACKET OBVIOUSLY CORRECT? YES.
UM, I'M SURE WE'VE ALREADY BEEN DATE.
OH YEAH, I, I I IT SOME INSOMNIA AND I WAS READING.
SO I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO, UH, APPROVE MINUTES FROM JULY 60.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES FOR JULY 16TH, 2025 AND AUGUST 20TH, 2025.
ALRIGHT, JOE'S MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THOSE TWO DATES.
UH, DO I HAVE A SECOND, KEV? SURE.
KEVIN IS SECOND IT ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
ALRIGHT, SO IT MOVES DOWN TO THE EMORY MANOR COMPONENT FOUR, A PLANNING AGENCY REVIEW.
I'M GONNA LET JEN EXPLAIN WHAT THIS IS GOOD BECAUSE I SURE DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS, I DON'T EVEN, I LOST IT AFTER EMORY AND I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE PACKET, WHICH EXPLAINS THAT EITHER.
SO THIS COMPONENT IS PART OF THE SEWAGE FACILITIES PLANNING MODULE PROCESS.
AND THIS DEVELOPMENT IS PUTTING IN A FORCE MAIN THAT WILL ALLOW NINE PROPERTIES NOT PART OF THIS SUBDIVISION TO CONNECT TO IT.
UM, IT'S AN AREA OF THE TOWNSHIP THAT IS LACKING IN SERVICE OVER THERE.
AND THEY ARE PUTTING IN EXTENSIONS TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR FUTURE CONNECTIONS.
AND IT'S THE PIECES THAT ARE SOUTH ON ONE 13 BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET.
AND IT GOES DOWN TO THE TREE FARM.
[00:25:01]
SO IT SAYS RIGHT ON THE FRONT OF ONE 13 RIGHT THERE, UM, TOWARDS RAIDERS.AND THAT IS NOTED ON, UH, PAGE THREE, NUMBER 15.
UM, WHERE PAGE, WHAT, WHAT NUMBER? UH, PAGE THREE, ITEM 15.
THIS IS IN THE COMPONENT FOUR A.
SO THOSE FOUR PROPERTIES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF TRAP ARE CURRENTLY ON SEPTIC AND THEY'RE SEEKING TO CONNECT THEM TO THE SEA.
WE ARE JUST HAVING THE INFRASTRUCTURE PUT IN NOW TO ALLOW THAT TO OCCUR IN THE FUTURE.
I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHEN I GOT THIS IN THE PACKAGE FROM JEFF.
I I DIDN'T HAVE ANY CONCEPT WHAT THIS WAS ALL ABOUT.
I JUST, I HAVE TO GO THROUGH THESE ABOUT ONCE A MONTH.
I STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE ABOUT.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT ITEM 15, IT DOES DESCRIBE NINE ADDITIONAL PROPERTIES AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT A PROJECT WHICH ONLY HAS SEVEN.
SO I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW THERE WOULD BE SOME CONFUSION GOING BACK AND FORTH FOR THAT.
SO THERE'S FOLKS THAT HAVE HOMES ALREADY IN EXISTING SYSTEMS. THEY'RE NOT FORCED TO TIE IN.
THEY'RE NOT FORCED TO TIE IN TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, NOBODY IS IN DIRE STRAITS OF NEEDING THAT CONNECTION RIGHT NOW.
THIS IS JUST FORESHADOWING THE FUTURE.
THE BOARD, THE BOARD POLICY HAS BEEN, UM, THAT, THAT WHILE THE PIPE MAY BE IN PLACE, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CONNECT.
SO THEY THEY DO NOT REQUIRE IT.
AND A LOT OF, A LOT OF PEOPLE ULTIMATELY DO TIE IN DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR SEPTIC SYSTEM.
AND, AND IF YOU HAVE A FAILING SYSTEM AND YOU AREN'T ABLE TO CORRECT THE FAILING SYSTEM, THEN YOU ARE REQUIRED TO CONNECT.
UM, SO EMORY MANDER DEVELOPMENT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET IS APPLYING TO PAY FOR THIS INFRASTRUCTURE? CORRECT.
SO WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO, ZACH? DO WE HAVE TO VOTE ON THAT OR, UM, YEAH.
UH, THIS IS PRETTY MUCH JUST A RECOGNITION THAT THIS HAS BEEN PRESENTED IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THAT, THAT YOU HAVE NO ISSUES WITH THE SUBMISSION TO DDP AND HAVING A, AND ALLOWING TOM TO SIGN THE DOCUMENT, RIGHT? CORRECT.
SO, SO, AND YOU'RE FINE WITH IT, RIGHT? JEN? EVERYTHING'S GOING THE WAY.
YOU, YOU, YOU, YEAH, WE'RE FINE WITH THIS.
AND AGAIN, THIS IS FOR A DEP APPROVAL.
SO THIS IS ALL GONNA GO OFF TO DEP.
SO, UH, WE DO WE VOTE ON THAT, ZACH? YES.
SO I'LL, I NEED TO TAKE A VOTE ON, UH, APPROVING THIS, UH, AMENDMENT, UH, TO THE EMORY PLAN, UM, THAT, UH, WE'VE JUST HEARD ALL ABOUT.
WELL, I'LL MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS AMENDMENT AND, UM, I'LL TAKE A SECOND.
HE WANTS TO GO HOME REAL TIME.
THIS IS, THIS IS GOVERNMENT IN ACTION.
DID THEY GIVE HIM THE WHOLE THING? GIVE THE WHOLE THING.
CAN STICK AROUND WANT? HUH? I THINK I'M GOOD NOW.
WELL THAT WAS, THAT WAS A LEARNING CURVE.
IS THIS SOMETHING WE'VE DONE BEFORE, JEN? MM-HMM
YEAH, WE HAD TO DO IT UP THERE.
IF IT IS PART OF JUST THE NORMAL DEVELOPMENT, I CAN TYPICALLY SIGN IT.
IF, BUT WHEN THEY'RE EXTENDING IT TO SOMETHING NEW, LIKE WE'RE ASKING WHAT WE ASKED THEM TO DO IN KLEIN ROAD, THAT'S WHEN YOU HAVE TO WEIGH IN.
I REMEMBER KLEIN ROAD NOW THAT THEY THOUGHT ABOUT IT FOR THEMSELVES SINCE THE DEVELOPERS PAYING FOR YEAH, IT REALLY IS.
UH, DISCUSSION BRIDGE AT COLLEGEVILLE.
OH, EVERYONE ON THIS SIDE OF THE ROOM IS WITH ME, BUT THEY'RE NOT ALL GOING TO TALK.
WELL, THEY'RE JUST THERE FOR SUPPORT.
I'M FROM HAMBURG, RUBEN MALL AND MAXWELL IN LUIN.
AND WE'RE HERE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT 400 TO 500 OR CALL ROAD.
WE KNOW IT AS THE DOW PFIZER PROPERTY.
UM, THERE'S A NEW OWNER OF THE PROPERTY.
IT CAME INTO POSSESSION ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO.
TWO YEARS TO THE DAY I THINK IS THE CASE.
UH, THAT THEY ARE KNOWN AS COLLEGEVILLE HOLDINGS.
LLC COMPRISED OF TWO GROUPS, ACTUALLY AN INDIVIDUAL BY THE NAME OF DAVID WERNER, REAL ESTATE AND
[00:30:01]
GREEN BAR.AND GREEN BARN INVESTMENT GROUP.
UH, CHRIS RYER REER, WHO IS A, UH, PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER AND PROFESSIONAL PLANNER IS WITH ME TONIGHT.
CHRIS IS HERE IN THAT ROW THERE.
AND MATT LAVELL, WHO IS THE HEAD OF ASSET MANAGEMENT, IS HERE.
I'M GONNA LEAN ON MATT TOWARDS THE END, UH, TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING.
UH, WE MET MATT, MET WITH TOWNSHIP REPS ABOUT A YEAR AGO TO TALK ABOUT THIS PROPERTY AFTER THEY ACQUIRED IT.
AND THEN IN MAY OF 2025, WE MET WITH STAFF AND THE SOLICITOR TO DISCUSS SOME IDEAS ABOUT REVITALIZING THIS PROPERTY.
I HAVE WILL, UH, JAGER HERE FROM ER ENGINEERING, UH, MATT HAMMOND WITH TRAFFIC PLANNING AND DESIGN.
MATT IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH ALL THE, UH, TRAFFIC ISSUES IN THE AREA, AND HE CAN SPEAK TO THOSE IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS.
AND WE HAVE ERIC, UH, HETZEL, WHO IS A PLANNER.
HE DID SOME NUMBER CRUNCHING FOR US THAT WE'RE GONNA PRESENT TO YOU AS WELL.
SO, UH, WE'D LIKE TO REVITALIZE THIS SITE.
I'M GONNA SET THE TABLE FOR YOU, GO THROUGH SOME SLIDES.
WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING IS IN LINE WITH MONKO 2040.
IT'S ALSO IN LINE WITH THE TOWNSHIP'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHICH WAS ADOPTED LAST YEAR IN 2024.
I'M SURE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT.
UH, AND THEN OUR TEAM IS HERE TO INTERFACE WITH YOU, UM, AS YOU HAVE QUESTIONS.
SO WE HAVE SLIDES FOR THE SCREEN.
I FIND THEM DIFFICULT TO SEE AT A DISTANCE, SO I MAKE COPIES FOR YOU TO HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU SO THAT YOU CAN READ THINGS.
YOU HAVE SCREENS IN FRONT OF YOU, SOME OF THE PRINT ON THE, I HAVE SOME, UM, SOME GRAPHICS MORE THAN JUST PLANS.
PLUS ALL OF OUR NAMES ARE ON THE TRACK.
IT'S CURRENTLY A BUNCH OF OFFICE BUILDINGS, RIGHT? YES.
DOCTOR'S OFFICES OR WHAT? DAYCARE OR DAYCARE? NO, NO, NO.
I THINK IT'S RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.
SOME, I THINK THERE'S SOME LAB WORK THERE.
UM, I THINK ONE OF THE BUILDINGS DOES HAVE SOME INDIVIDUAL TENANTS.
LONG AND FOSTER AND KELLER WILLIAMS. KELLER WILLIAMS. KELLER WILLIAMS. YEAH.
SOME OF THE, SOME OF THE OUTBUILDINGS HAVE SOME, SOME SMALLER TENANTS.
SO, UM, THIS IS THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION.
WE KNOW IT AS A DOW PFIZER PROPERTY.
UH, IT'S PART OF WHAT WE CALL, OH, IT WON'T REACH.
WE CALL THIS THE QUADRANT, UH, FOUR TWENTY TWO AND 29.
OUR PROPERTY INCLUDED IN THIS QUADRANT, UH, AT THIS INTERCHANGE.
SO I TOOK A LOOK AT MONKO, UH, 2040, UH, BEAR VISION.
UH, THIS IS AN EXCERPT FROM MONKO 2040.
IT TALKS ABOUT WHAT THEY CALL REGIONAL MIX CENTER USE.
AND THEY DEFINE A MIX, A REGIONAL MIX CENTER USE AS INTENSELY DEVELOPED SUBURBAN CORES WITH SIGNIFICANT RETAIL OFFICE AND RESIDENTIAL LAND USES.
THEY GENERATE A LOT OF TRAFFIC, A LOT OF JOBS, AND A LOT OF OVERALL ACTIVITY.
AND THEY GIVE EXAMPLES ABOUT REGIONAL AND MAJOR COMMUNITY SHOPPING CENTERS, LARGE OFFICE COMPLEX HOTELS, CONFERENCE CENTERS, HIGH DENSITY, MULTIFAMILY AND TOWNHOUSES ENTERTAINMENT USES.
THEY ALSO MIX IN RETAIL STORES, SMALL OFFICES, INSTITUTIONS, DAYCARES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UH, WHERE FEASIBLE LAND USES SHOULD MIX WITH REGIONAL MIXED USE CENTERS.
OVER TIME, THESE CENTERS SHOULD ESTABLISH MORE OF A SENSE OF PLACE, IDEALLY WITH CLEARLY DEFINED PUBLIC GATHERING SPACES.
UH, NEW DEVELOPMENT OR REDEVELOPMENT OF SITES SHOULD BE DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE SIGNIFICANT AUTOMOBILE TRIPS AND REGIONAL MIXED USE CENTERS SHOULD HAVE INTERNAL ROAD SYSTEMS TO ALLOW TRAFFIC MOVEMENT IN AND AROUND THE CENTER OF THE REGIONAL ROAD NETWORK.
AND THE NEXT SLIDE WILL SHOW YOU THAT MONTGOMERY COUNTY HAS IDENTIFIED THE QUADRANT THAT I JUST SHOWED YOU AS A REGIONAL MIXED USE CENTER.
DO YOU SEE THAT? I CIRCLED IT FOR YOU TO MAKE IT EASY.
SO MONKO HAS IDENTIFIED THIS QUADRANT AS A REGIONAL MIXED TWO CENTER.
[00:35:01]
FROM YOUR, UH, ZONING MAP.OUR PROPERTY IS IDENTIFIED AS IO THAT'S YOUR OFFICE CENTER.
YOU HAVE THE PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
YOU HAVE YOUR ENTERTAINMENT USES, YOUR RESTAURANT, YOUR SERVICE, YOUR RETAIL.
BEHIND IT, YOU HAVE YOUR, UH, MULTI-FAMILY.
YOU HAVE THAT INTERNAL ROAD SYSTEM LIKE THEY TALKED ABOUT YOUR OPEN SPACES HERE WHERE WE'RE STANDING IN THIS BUILDING AS WELL AS YOUR PARK SYSTEM.
RECENTLY THIS PROPERTY IN BROWN WAS REZONED.
YOU HAVE, UH, RETAIL NOW IN THE FRONT WITH STACKED TOWNHOUSES.
IN THE BACK HERE WE HAVE GLAXO, UM, SMITH KLEIN RE UH, RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT STILL THRIVING ON THIS PART OF THE QUADRANT.
AND THEN THE PROPERTY THAT YOU WERE SPEAKING OF WHEN I GOT STARTED, UH, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF OUR COLA ROAD THAT HAS THE MADISON APARTMENTS, TWO HOTELS MEDICAL OFFICE.
THE KINDER CARE RECENTLY CLOSED.
UM, A TEXT CHANGE WAS RECENTLY ADOPTED TO ALLOW SOME MANUFACTURING IN THIS PORTION OF THE PROPERTY.
AND WE HAVE SOME VACANCIES IN THAT BUILDING.
SO, BACK TO OUR PROPERTY, UH, WHAT WE'VE DONE IS HIGHLIGHTED, UH, WHAT WE ARE OCCUPYING RIGHT NOW, THERE IS 1.9 MILLION SQUARE FEET OF OFFICE ON THIS PROPERTY.
AND WE ARE NOW SHOWING THAT DOW OCCUPIES ABOUT 800,000.
THAT PFIZER IS DOWN TO 675,000.
AND KELLER WILLIAMS HAS A LITTLE BIT RIGHT IN HERE.
SO WE HAVE A LOT KELLER WILLIAMS, I'M SORRY, KELLER WILLIAMS IS IN THIS LITTLE PART RIGHT HERE.
HOW MUCH IS THAT? HOW MANY SQUARE FEET IS KELLER? 22,000 SQUARE FEET.
SO THE OFFICE IS TRENDING DOWNWARD, AND IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PROPERTY, IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE.
SO WE'RE HERE TO COME UP WITH A WAY TO REVITALIZE IT TO BRING LIFE BACK TO THE PROPERTY.
BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER, WHAT IS THE STATUS OF PFIZER ENDOW? ARE THEY, ARE THEY GOING TO CONTINUE TO DOWNSIZE OR ARE THEY MOVING OR ARE YOU GONNA LEAVE THEM SOME SPACE? DOW IS COMMITTED TO STAY, THEY'RE ABOUT AT 800,000.
AND PFIZER, DOES THAT STAY AT THAT RATE THAT SIZE? YEP.
IS IS THE LENGTH OF THEIR LEASE? UH, TBD ON PFIZER? UM, IT SEEMS LIKE I'M GONNA, I, THE MICS ARE NOT GREAT HERE, SO IF YOU'RE GONNA SPEAK NO PROBLEM.
WE DON'T NEED TO BE REAL FORMAL, BUT YEAH.
SO, SO DOW IS IN FOR ANOTHER 10 YEARS.
UM, THEY'RE USING, THAT'S MOSTLY LAB SPACE AND, AND THEIR FACILITY, UM, THEY'RE COMMITTED TO THE, TO, TO THE SITE, UH, FAIRLY WELL OCCUPIED, UH, ABOUT THREE DAYS A WEEK.
AND THEN, UM, PFIZER IS, UH, IT ROLLS IN 2028.
UM, THEY ARE PROBABLY IN MORE SPACE THAN THEY NEED, BUT WE JUST DON'T KNOW YET.
IF I WAS A BETTING PERSON, PROBABLY GETTING SOME SPACE BACK THERE.
AND YOU SAID THAT'S 675? 6 75.
SO RIGHT NOW WE HAVE ABOUT 400,000 SQUARE FEET OF SPACE.
THOUSAND IS, UH, 6 75 IS PFIZER 6 75.
WHY NOT LOOK FOR OTHER INDUSTRIAL USES RATHER THAN THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT? SO FEEDBACK FROM THE MARKET, WHAT WE'RE REALLY RESPONDING TO IS, IS FEEDBACK FROM TENANTS THAT ARE LOOKING AT US.
UM, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T, I HEARD YOU.
WHAT FEEDBACK FROM THE MARKET? OH, FROM THE MARKET.
FROM THE MARKET IS, UM, YOU KNOW, TENANTS LOOK AT IT AND THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE KIND OF ON AN ISLAND.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE A LIVE WORK PLAY ENVIRONMENT, UM, THAT TENDS TO ATTRACT, UH, YOU KNOW, MILLENNIAL GEN, GEN X, UH, PEOPLE TO, UH, TO A SITE LIKE THIS.
AND THAT'S WHAT THEY LOOK FOR.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO MIX UP THE USES AND CREATE A VIBRANT ENVIRONMENT.
YEAH, WE'RE CONCERNED WITH THE TREMENDOUS GROWTH OUR TOWNSHIP SEEMS TO BE GOING THROUGH.
IT'S JUST ME SAYING THAT, BUT, UM, IT'S AN ISSUE.
CAN WE GET THROUGH THEIR PRESENTATION BEFORE WE SPOIL THE ENDING
WE ARE, WE'RE TRYING TO FOCUS ON LOCATIONS WHERE THERE'S INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE TOWNSHIP COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOCUSES EXACTLY ON THIS PROPERTY IN THIS REGION AND WHERE THERE'S INFRASTRUCTURE BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT WHERE THERE ISN'T INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF OUTCRY HERE IN RECENT YEARS WITH THAT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT OUT IN THE LANDS WHERE THERE ISN'T THAT INFRASTRUCTURE.
SO IF WE COULD GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE AND GET TO THE TOWNSHIP COMPREHENSIVE
[00:40:01]
PLAN.IN FACT, THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID.
UM, FOR THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN, THEY SAID, GIVEN THE EVER SHIFTING REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT MARKET, THE TOWNSHIP NEEDS TO BE COGNIZANT OF TRENDS.
AND THOSE UNDERUSED IE VACANT OFFICE BUILDINGS, VACANT INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES THAT AFFECT ITS FINANCIAL VIABILITY TO ADEQUATELY SERVE THE REMAINING TOWNSHIP AT LARGE.
SO, UNLIKE OTHER COMPREHENSIVE PLANS THAT HAVE DOZENS OF GOALS AND OBJECTIVES WITH RESPECT TO FUTURE LAND USE PLAN, THIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE PLAN PAIRS THAT DOWN TO ONE GUIDING PRINCIPLE FOR THE LIFE OF THIS PLAN.
PRESERVE THOSE UNDEVELOPED AREAS AND CHANNEL REDEVELOPMENT INTO THOSE AREAS THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE EXISTS ON THE FOLLOWING PLAN.
THEY IDENTIFY, UH, THIS INTERCHANGE AREA, SPECIFICALLY THE ROUTE 29 INTERCHANGE IN CAMPUS DRIVE AND STATE THAT GIVEN THE PROXIMITY TO THE EXISTING LONG-TERM OFFICE CAMPUS ENVIRONMENTS TO AN INTERCHANGE WITH ROUTE 4 22, A THRIVING COMMERCIAL SHOPPING AREA, REDEVELOPMENT OF THIS AREA IS PARAMOUNT TO THE FUTURE OF THE TOWNSHIP.
WITH THE INDIVIDUAL OFFICE MARKET FLOUNDERING AT THIS TIME, THE TOWNSHIP CANNOT WAIT FOR INDIVIDUAL OFFICE USERS TO RETURN.
ZONING SHOULD BE REVIEWED TO ENSURE FLEXIBILITY WITH A BROAD RANGE OF PERMITTED USES.
SO THE NEXT PLAN IS WHAT WE HAVE IN MIND.
SO THAT LIVE WORK PLAY IS EXACTLY WHAT MONKO 2040 IS TALKING ABOUT.
THEY WANT TO USE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE, THEY WANT TO USE EXISTING ROAD NETWORKS THAT KEEP PEOPLE OFF THE ANCILLARY ROADS SO THAT THEY CAN MOVE WITHIN A PROPERTY LIKE WE ARE PROPOSING HERE.
SO THIS PLAN CONTEMPLATES TOWNHOUSES ALONG THE BACK WITH TRAIL SYSTEMS, AMENITIES, UM, AND PAD SITES ALONG ARCOLA AT THE INTERSECTION OF 29 IN ARCOLA AND EITHER A HOSPITAL OR A GMP USE HERE, UH, ON THE NORTHERN END OF THE PROPERTY.
SO IF WE CAN BRING PEOPLE TO THE PROPERTY, BRING AMENITIES TO THE PROPERTY WHERE WE CAN BRING LIFE TO THE PROPERTY AND THE OFFICES, WE THINK THAT WE CAN MAKE USE OF THE EXISTING BUILDINGS.
WE DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA GET A LARGE OFFICE USER LIKE PFIZER AND DOW ONCE WERE, BUT WE COULD GET THE OFFICE USERS THAT CAN RE REUSE THE BUILDINGS THAT ARE THERE.
THE PROBLEM WE HAVE IS WE HAVE, UH, DOW THAT'S THERE CONSUMING 800,000 SQUARE FEET.
WE CAN'T VERY WELL PUT DIFFERENT USES NEXT TO AN OFFICE COMPLEX.
SO WE HAVE TO WORK AROUND THEM AND TRY TO BRING LIFE BACK TO THIS PROPERTY.
EXCUSE ME, I'M LOSING YOU A LITTLE BIT.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB, BUT I'M LOSING YOU.
UM, SO THE EXISTING BUILDINGS, YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE THEM RETAIL AND MAYBE SOME OFFICE PEOPLE FILL IN AROUND DO AND PFIZER? NO.
WELL, MATT, THE EXISTING BUILDING COME ON.
SO OUR PLAN IS TO KEEP THE EXISTING BUILDING, RIGHT? WE THINK BY ADDING DIFFERENT MIXED USES TO OUR SITE.
TENANT BUSINESSES, SMALL BUSINESSES, RESTAURANTS, YOU GUYS ARE PROBABLY FAMILIAR WITH A LOT OF OFFICE BUILDINGS THAT ARE GETTING KNOCKED DOWN AND BUILT, YOU KNOW, AND RESIDENTIAL BEING PUT IN PLACE.
WE ACTUALLY THINK THAT THIS IS PROBABLY, THAT THIS IS THE BETTER WAY TO GO ABOUT, UM, OUR VACANCY PROBLEM IS TO KEEP THE BUILDINGS, CREATE THE, THE MIXED USE LIVE WORK, PLAY ENVIRONMENT.
GIMME AN EXAMPLE OF THE MIXED USE.
SO THE CORNER'S GONNA BE RETAIL.
UM, YOU KNOW, SO WE, WE HAVE ANOTHER DO YOU WANNA GO FORWARD? YEAH.
A COUPLE SLOT I'M TALKING ABOUT DOWN THERE.
I'M TALKING ABOUT CURRENT BUILDINGS.
YOU'RE GONNA LEAVE THOSE THERE.
RIGHT? BUT I MEAN, WHAT WE LOOKING TO DO WITH THIS SPACE THAT'S STILL EXISTING BUILDINGS, WE, WE SIT AS OFFICE SPACE.
KEEP IT IN SORT OF THAT INDUSTRIAL BOOK.
YOU'RE NOT LOOKING TO PUT ANY RETAIL IN THERE OR ANY OF THAT.
THESE STRUCTURES ARE GONNA STAY AS THEY ARE.
IT'S FILLED UP WITH OTHER CLIENTS FOR OTHER USES WILL JUST BE ON THE UNDEVELOPED LAND THAT IS THERE TODAY.
SO WE'RE GONNA KEEP, KEEP WHAT IS THERE TODAY AND KEEP IT
OR LIKE MANUFACTURING, NOT EVEN LIGHT MANUFACTURING, NOT EVEN LIGHT NAMES.
BUT THE PROPOSAL IS OBVIOUSLY TO THE EAST IS, IS TO ALL THE TOWN HOMES AND TO THE LEFT HOME COLLEGEVILLE ROAD BECOMES WHAT WAS SAID LIKE A, A HOSPITAL, ALTHOUGH I'M NOT SURE THAT'S FEASIBLE, BUT THAT'S THE STORY.
AND, AND THE RETAILER AT THE BOTTOM.
SO THEY'RE PROPOSING TO DO THIS
[00:45:01]
TALK ABOUT DOING THIS KIND OF DEVELOPMENT, LEAVING THE REST OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE AS IT IS.SO WE ALIZE THE SITE AND RE REOCCUPY IT WITH OTHER CLIENTS AND, AND THE CLIENTS ARE THERE NOW, NOW AND UH, PFIZER, THEY SEE THIS AS SOMETHING GOOD.
WELL DO, DOW'S GOT A 10 YEAR, YOU JUST COME 10 YEAR LEASE ON THEIR PROPERTY.
SO THAT WE'VE GOT THREE YEARS FOR PFIZER, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER 10 YEARS FOR DOW.
BUT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT, SO, SO DO THINKS PUTTING ALL THOSE TOWNHOUSES OR WHATEVER THEY GROW TO BE, THAT'S GOOD FOR THEM.
WHY? BECAUSE THEY THINK, UH, ONE FOR THE TOWNHOUSES SO THEIR EMPLOYEES CAN LIVE CLOSER TO WHERE THEY WORK.
UM, AND THEN TWO IN RETAIL, UM, THEY UH, ARE EXCITED ABOUT HAVING LIKE A QUICK SERVICE RESTAURANT WHERE YOU CAN WALK OUT THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING AND GO GRAB A BURGER FOR LUNCH RATHER THAN JUST A TYPICAL CAFETERIA WRAP.
SO B, THAT THEY ARE WHAT IT IS TODAY, THEY'RE KIND OF SEGREGATED.
THAT'S NOT ATTRACTED TO THEM ANY LONGER.
UH, EVERY DAY I'M THERE, I GET IN MY TRUCK AND I DRIVE DOWN AND I HAVE TO GO OVER TO WEGMAN'S TO GET SOME FOOD.
AND I HAVE SEVERAL COMMENTS, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF, DO WE WANT TO YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
WELL LET ME JUST SAY ONE MORE THING.
THE FOCUS REALLY ISN'T DOW 'CAUSE THEY'RE THERE.
WE'RE TRYING TO ATTRACT UNDERSTAND, I UNDERSTAND THAT.
I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT DOW'S THINKING ABOUT THIS.
SHOULDN'T BE AFTER YOU TOLD THEM ABSOLUTELY.
THEY'RE HAVING TROUBLE IS OKAY WITH THAT? NO, ABSOLUTELY.
THEY'RE HAVING TROUBLE RECRUIT RECRUITING TALENT, UH, TO THE AREA.
ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS THAT THEY'RE SAYING IS THE PROBLEM IS HOUSING IN, IN THE, IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA.
SO I'M, I'M, I HAVE TWO, TWO THINGS.
ONE IS ABOUT MIXED USE AND THE OTHER IS ABOUT, UM, PROXIMITY TO THE RIVER, BASICALLY.
SO ON THE FIRST PART, YOU KNOW, I'M ALL FOR MIXED USE.
I'M, I'M A URBAN PLANNER MYSELF.
I, I APPRECIATE THE, THE EFFORT TO TRY TO MAKE IT, YOU KNOW, UH, ALIGN WITH KO'S PLAN AND, AND OUR PLAN.
BUT YOU KNOW, THE STRONGEST EVIDENCE TO THAT IS THAT THERE'S STILL, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL FOOTBALL FIELDS OF PARKING BETWEEN THE OFFICE AND THE HOUSING.
SO YOUR POINT ABOUT GETTING IN THE CAR TO DRIVE THROUGH A QUICK SERVICE RESTAURANT, YOU'RE STILL HAVE TO DO THAT ANYWAY.
THIS LOOKS MORE LIKE, YOU KNOW, A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT THAT HAPPENS TO BE ON THE SAME SITE, A LARGE SITE.
WHY, WHY WOULD DO WANT THAT? I DON'T.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I I THINK AN OVERALL REDEVELOPMENT WHERE YOU DID LIKE TRUE EXCUSE WOULD BE MORE INTERESTING.
BUT I DON'T SEE HOW THIS ISN'T JUST HOUSING ADJACENT TO, YOU KNOW, SUBURBAN STYLE OFFICE PARKS AND INDUSTRIAL.
UM, AND THEN THE OTHER ONE IS, YOU KNOW, I, I PULLED UP THE HURRICANE IDA INUNDATION MAPS AND IT'S NOT AS BAD AS I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE, WHICH IS GREAT 'CAUSE THERE'S MORE TOPOGRAPHY THERE THAN I WOULD'VE THOUGHT.
BUT THE PER TRAIL, I BELIEVE GOES RIGHT ALONG THE BACK THERE.
AND THERE'S A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL, YOU KNOW, RIPARIAN BUFFER.
DID I USE THE RIGHT TERM IN, UM, BUILT IN? BECAUSE THERE'S, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN ON THERE, YOU DON'T REALLY SEE DOW AT ALL.
I THINK AT ONE POINT YOU SEE A PARKING GARAGE MAYBE, BUT YOU, YOU MAINLY SEE TREES AND HILLS.
AND I THINK THIS WOULD COMPLETELY CHANGE THAT TO WHERE YOU'RE ON THE PERM AND TRAIL.
UM, AND YOU'RE JUST LOOKING AT THE BACK OF TOWNHOUSES NOW.
AND I, I WORRY THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH SOME OF THE RAINSTORMS WE'VE BEEN HAVING WITH IDA HITTING THIS COMMUNITY NOT THAT LONG AGO, UM, THAT YOU'RE JUST KIND OF ASKING FOR IT FROM A FLOODING PERSPECTIVE.
AND I, AND I SAY THIS TOO, I SHOULD ALSO SAY, UM, UH, I USED TO WORK FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT AND I I OVERSAW THE DEPARTMENT YOU WORKED FOR WHO? THE US DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND I OVERSAW THE, THE LARGEST SOURCE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING FUNDING IN THE COUNTRY.
AND, UH, THE DEPARTMENT'S ENVIRONMENTAL COMPLIANCE PROGRAM AND SAME STORM ITEM AND NOT HERE, BUT IN NEW JERSEY, UH, PEOPLE DIED BECAUSE WE PUT UM, UH, MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING IN THE FLOODPLAIN.
THE MAPS APPEAR TO BE ABOUT 10 YEARS OLD.
IT MIGHT BE THE FLOODPLAIN NOW, I'M NOT SURE.
BUT IT DOES RAISE SOME CONCERNS JUST LOOKING AT IT VISUALLY SO CLOSE TO THE CREEK.
CLEARLY WE COULDN'T BUILD IN THE FLOODPLAIN.
BUT YOU KNOW, HURRICANE SANDY'S FLOODPLAIN IN NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY WAS 20 YEARS OLD WHEN HURRICANE SANDY HIT.
SO THERE WERE A LOT OF PROPERTIES THAT WOULD'VE BEEN IN THE FLOODPLAIN IF THEY HAD BEEN UPDATED.
YEAH, I, I KIND OF AGREE WITH KEVIN HERE.
I THINK I, I I THINK THAT, THAT, SEE WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED THIS, I THOUGHT
[00:50:01]
YOU WERE GOING TO TELL US YOU WERE REDEVELOPING THE CURRENT BUILDINGS, ALLOWING DOW AND CERTAINLY PFIZER IS DOWNSIZING ALL THE TIME TO STAY, BUT THAT YOU WOULD TAKE THE REST OF THIS IN SOME OF THESE PARKING LOTS AND MAKE THEM SOMETHING DIFFERENT.AND UH, AND I AGREE WITH KIM, IT LOOKS LIKE ALL YOU'RE DOING IS ADDING ON A HOUSING DEVELOPMENT TO A, TO A, A EXISTING PIECE OF PROPERTY.
THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVE A TENURE TENANT THAT COM COMPRISES A SIGNIFICANT CHUNK OF ONE AREA AND YOU HAVE PFIZER IN ANOTHER AREA, AND IT'S HARD TO WORK AROUND OFFICE USERS WITH OTHER USES THAT AREN'T EXACTLY COMPATIBLE WITHOUT SPACE.
SO LIKE, YOU CAN'T BUILD A HOUSE NEXT TO AN OFFICE BUILDING.
BUT THAT IS THE CONCEPT OF MIXED USE, ISN'T THAT? WELL, DO YOU SEE HOW IT'S ALONG THE OUTSIDE? WE, WE'VE USED THE RING ROAD AS A NATURAL SEPARATION SO THAT WE COULD HAVE THESE DIFFERENT USES, BUT USE, USE THE LAND IN A, IN A WAY THAT USES THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH IS WHAT WE THINK THE TOWNSHIP WOULD LIKE US TO DO.
BUT I DON'T THINK THIS IS, THIS IS AFTER HEARING HER PRESENTATION, THIS IS A MIXED USE.
IT'S JUST ADDING A HOUSING PLAN ON THE, THE, UH, EXISTING INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX.
IS THE PARKING, UH, ARE THE PARKING LOTS PART OF THEIR LEASE? IS IT YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PARKING SPACES OR IS IT THE ACTUAL LOT ITSELF? THE ACTUAL LOT.
BUT THERE'S A, THERE'S A LOT MORE PARKING THERE THAN THEY'RE BEING USED TODAY.
I MEAN, YOU GOT THE PARKING BUILDING AT THE TIERED BUILDING ON THE ONE END.
PFIZER USES THE PARKING GARAGE THAT'S EXCLUSIVE TO THEM.
UM, BUT THEY DON'T FILL IT UP ANYMORE.
YEAH, I MEAN THERE'S A LOT OF PARKING THERE.
BUT IF WE WERE TO LEASE UP THE EXISTING BUILDINGS, WE WOULD NEED THE PARKING GARAGE, THE PARKING SPACE.
BUT IT IS ALL, IT'S ALSO SURFACE, RIGHT? UH, NO, WE HAVE A PARKING GARAGE AS WELL.
ALL OF THAT IS PARKING GARAGE.
NO, THERE'S ONE I THINK RIGHT THERE, RIGHT ON THE NORTH END THERE.
AND I MEAN, I'VE NEVER DRIVEN BACK THERE, BUT A LOT OF THAT LOOKS LIKE SURFACE PARKING.
SO WHY, YOU KNOW, LEAVE THE CARS FURTHER FROM THE CREEK AND PUT THE HOUSES CLOSER TO THE CREEK.
LIKE, YOU KNOW, I WOULD THINK OF MIXED USE AS, YOU KNOW, KEEP THE PARKING IF YOU WANT IT.
UH, BUT YOU KNOW, PUT SOMETHING ON TOP OF THE PARKING AND CONDENSE THE SITE SO THAT YOU'RE NOT DISTURBING, YOU KNOW, MORE WHAT IS INCREASINGLY LIMITED OPEN SPACE ALONG ONE OF THE HIGHEST PRIORITY OPEN SPACES, I THINK IN THE COUNTY.
I KNOW THE PERKY TRAIL IS A HUGE, UH, UH, PRIORITY OF OUR STATE REP, FOR EXAMPLE, AND HAS BEEN FOR YEARS.
LIKE THAT'S, IN MY MIND AT LEAST PRIORITY OPEN SPACE.
AND IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT EVEN USING THE PARKING SET.
SO IT SEEMS LIKE YOU GOT A LOT OF UNDER UNDERUTILIZED LAND ON THE SITE ALREADY.
UH, AND I KNOW SOMEONE ON YOUR TEAM HAS, HAS A LEAD ACCREDITED PROFESSIONAL.
YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE ASPECTS OF THAT RIGHT, IS LIMITING GREENFIELD DEVELOPMENT AND FOCUSING ON INFILL.
I THINK WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE IN YOUR CON THIS IS CONCEPT OBVIOUSLY, AND YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT WOULD BE, IS THERE, WAS THERE EVER ANY TALK ABOUT TAKING THE EXISTING BUILDINGS AND MAKING THEM MORE OF A RETAIL WITHIN, IN CONSISTENT WITH THE EXISTING, UH, TENANTS BUT MAKING MAYBE A COUPLE RESTAURANTS CALLED COFFEE SHOPS, THINGS LIKE THAT IN THE EXISTING BUILDING? I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT OF MARKET DEMAND FOR RETAIL WITHIN THE EXISTING BUILDINGS, GIVEN THE STRUCTURE AND BONES OF THE EXISTING BUILDINGS.
AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR FEEDBACK AND THAT'S WHY WE, WE CAME BECAUSE THIS IS YOUR TOWN AND WE WANT TO, UH, INCORPORATE ANYTHING THAT WE CAN, UH, YOU KNOW, ANY OF YOUR IDEAS.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, WE'LL DEFINITELY LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, CONVERTING EXISTING PARKING TO, UH, MAYBE SOME RESIDENTIAL AND, AND KEEPING THE GREENFIELD.
SO IT'S, YEAH, I UNDERSTAND IT.
I MEAN, TOM ALLUDED TO THIS EARLIER.
UH, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HAD RECENTLY, YOU KNOW, THE ROOM HAS BEEN MUCH MORE FULL.
YOU WERE THERE FOR ONE OF THEM.
UM, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THE MINUTE YOU START GETTING CLOSER TO THE PERGAMENT TRAIL, I WILL JUST BET YOU TO ROOM WITH IT AGAIN.
SO, AND CAN YOU MOVE TO THE SIDE? SO WE ACTUALLY HAVE A TRAIL THROUGH HERE AND THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE AN AMENITY TO CONNECT TO THE PERKIOMEN TRAIL, KEEPING THAT IN MIND THAT THAT WOULD BE EXACTLY WHERE PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO LIVE.
SO WE SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT THE PROXIMITY AND THE VIEW SHED THAT YOU MENTIONED.
UM, THAT IS EXACTLY WHY WE THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE A NICE PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE, TO HAVE THAT VIEW SHED.
YEAH, BUT I ALSO, I ALSO THINK, YOU KNOW, THOUGHT ABOUT, THINK, LOOKING ABOUT THIS ALONG THIS, WHERE THE HOUSES ARE,
[00:55:01]
FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S ONE SINGLE CHOKE POINT COMING OUT OF ALL THOSE TOWN HOMES ONTO ARCO ROAD.UH, NO MATTER HOW YOU CUT IT, THERE'S ONLY ONE ENTRANCE AND EXIT INTO THIS WHOLE, THERE'S ONLY TWO.
I MEAN, WELL, YOU COULD PERSPECTIVE THIS.
THIS IS YEAH, THEY'RE GONNA CONNECT IT TO THE CIRCLE.
SO WELL, YOU DO HAVE ANOTHER ENTRANCE UP THE ROAD.
WELL, WELL THE CIRCLE GOES ONLY GOES INTO THE CENTER AREA.
I MEAN, THERE'S ONE TWO ENTRANCE ENTRANCES INTO, INTO THIS WHOLE COMPLEX.
JUST ONE ON, UH, COLLEGEVILLE ON 29.
WELL, OKAY, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE PROPOSING THIS HOSPITAL RETAIL STUFF TO BE.
I'M THINKING ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE GOING INTO THIS TO WORK AND TO LIVE.
I MEAN, FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, I, THAT'S GOTTA BE A NIGHTMARE.
I MEAN, ALL THINGS WE WOULD LOOK AT DURING THE TRAFFIC ISSUES, BUT, BUT THAT TO ME, THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT CONCERN.
I DON'T THINK WE ASKED THIS QUESTION YET, BUT THIS PROPOSED HOUSING, HOW MANY UNITS? UM, 3, 3 49, 3 50 UNITS.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, I'D LIKE TO SEE LEAVING THE OPEN SPACE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AND UTILIZING THE CURRENT BUILDING MORE, UM, FOR, FOR SOME OF THE RETAIL THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AND I DON'T, I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN THAT, SO I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY EMPLOYEES PFIZER AND DO HAVE THERE NOW.
YOU HAVEN'T ADDED, UM, WE DO, WE HAVE FINANCIAL CHARTS THAT ARE IN THIS TOO.
BUT LET'S SAY THEY HAVE A THOUSAND BETWEEN THEM AND MAYBE THAT'S WAY CAN BACK UP.
WHAT, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF OCCUPANCY ARE THEY? HANG ON.
HANG ON, THERE'S A CHART IN YOUR PACKET.
SO THAT WOULD BE SOME, YOU KNOW, DEDICATED PEOPLE THAT ARE SERVICE THOSE SCHOOLS.
THEY WORK, THAT'S, YEAH, THAT'S THE THING.
WE NEED THE PEOPLE FOR THE RETAILERS TO COME AND THE RESTAURANTS TO COME.
SO THE TWO BUSINESSES, WHATEVER THOSE EMPLOYEE ARE, THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH INCENTIVE FOR A NEW RETAILER TO LOOK AT THAT.
PLUS THE PEOPLE WHO COME IN OFF THE STREET, BUT A DEDICATED GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT WORK IN LOCAL'S OFFICE OR NOT UP, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? OKAY.
SO THE FIRST OF THE TWO CHARTS SHOWS THE EXISTING BUILDINGS CURRENT OCCUPANCY UNDER THEIR CURRENT ASSESSMENT.
SEE THAT? THAT'S ALL, THAT'S BOTH PFIZER AND DOW IS FIVE 50 BECAUSE WE HAVE 400,000 SQUARE FEET OF VACANCY TODAY.
AND WHAT DID YOU SAY? THEY COME IN THREE DAYS A WEEK.
IT'S ROUGHLY THREE DAYS A WEEK.
AND THEY'RE, THE TENANTS ARE PRESUMABLY PAYING FOR ALL 400,000 SQUARE FEET, REGARDLESS OF ITS VACANCY STATUS.
NO, WE DON'T, WE DON'T RECEIVE RENT ON, ON THE 400,000 SQUARE FEET OF, OF VACANCY.
I GUESS THEY'RE NOT, BUT THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO BE FLEXIBLE WITH YOU ON TOUCHING THEIR LEASE SPACE WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE IT ALL OCCUPIED.
I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.
SO THOUSAND 800 AND THEY PAY ON 800.
AND THEN THERE'S NOBODY EXCEPT FOR KELLER WILLIAMS IS IN 22,000 SQUARE FEET.
SO EVERYTHING ELSE IS VACANT WILLIAMS JUST THE OFFICE.
YEAH, IT'S A REAL ESTATE OFFICE.
BUT THE VACANT, THE VACANT UNITS.
SO THE VACANT UNITS ARE SCATTERED THROUGHOUT THE EXISTING.
YOU BASICALLY HAVE DAL ON ONE SIDE.
AND YOU HAVE PFIZER ON THE OTHER AND LIKE THE VACANCY'S KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE.
I ALMOST WISH IT WAS LIKE IN THE SAME, IN THE, THEY WERE IN THE SAME SIDE.
SO THE BUT THERE ARE THERE, ARE THERE BUILDINGS THAT ARE MORE OR LESS FULLY VACANT? YES.
BUT YOU'RE NOT REDEVELOPING THOSE? NO.
BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THE MIDDLE.
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, THAT I WOULD LOVE TO TEAR 'EM DOWN AND BUILD SOMETHING.
BUT YOU CAN'T BUILD A HOUSE OR RETAIL IN BETWEEN.
WHAT ABOUT THE FARMHOUSE? WHO ANYBODY IN THERE ANYMORE? NO.
WELL, THEY USE FOR THEIR PER FOR WHEN THEY HAD PEOPLE COME IN TO PFIZER USED TO USE IT.
OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS ON WHAT TO DO WITH IT, BY THE WAY.
OH, TO BE, IT USED TO BE A BEAUTIFUL BUILDING.
I DON'T, I USED TO BE THERE A LOT AND UH, BUT I HAVEN'T BEEN THERE FOR YEARS, SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S STILL LIKE.
[01:00:01]
OH, THE BARN IS JUST ABOVE THE FARMHOUSE ACTUALLY THAT'S THE CONFERENCE FACILITY.AND THAT'S SKIP THAT GETS USED A LOT.
UM, YEAH, IF I HAVE WHAT IT'S WORTH, MY SUGGESTION WOULD, IS IF YOU COULD UTILIZE THE CURB BUILDING A LITTLE BIT MORE FOR THE RETAIL PLACE.
I DON'T, I JUST, I I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN THE, THE HOUSING PLAN IS ONE THING.
HOUSING DEVELOPMENT, THAT AREA IS ONE THING.
BUT CERTAINLY THAT, AND I AGREE WITH JOE, I DON'T, MAYBE YOU ALREADY HAVE A HOSPITAL LINED UP.
UH, BUT I'D LOVE TO SEE THAT SPACE STAY OPEN AND USE MORE OF THE EXISTING PARKING LOTS BUILDING TO, UH, TO DO THAT.
I MEAN THOSE, THAT, THAT BACK PARKING LOT THERE BEHIND.
I MEAN THEY, THEY'RE NOT USING THAT TODAY.
RIGHT? IN THE BACK UP THE, LIKE THE NORTHEASTERN SIDE.
ALL THE WAY BACK BEHIND THE HOSPITAL.
IT DOESN'T GET FILLED BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE TENANTS IN.
SO IS THAT DEVELOPABLE? WE WOULD'VE TO REPLACE IN ORDER TO MEET, UH, CODE AND PROVIDE PARKING FOR THE EXISTING FACILITY, WE WOULD HAVE TO DO A PARKING GARAGE, REPLACE THAT PARKING, AND THEN DEVELOP ON THERE.
SO, OR ASK FOR A WAIVER OR ASK FOR A WAIVER VARIANCE.
I KNOW THOSE PEOPLE, THEY DO WAIVER TENANTS.
UH, THAT WOULD BE PARKING LOT.
ONE THING IS A NEED FOR A TENANT AND THE OTHER IS A ZONING ISSUE.
SO YEAH, WE'D HAVE TO DEAL WITH BOTH OF 'EM.
WELL, YOU'RE THE EXPERT, THAT'S FOR SURE.
I, I MEAN, I MEAN, I, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE RETAIL AND ALL THAT.
WHAT MAKES SENSE? NOT AGAIN, I, IT JUST SEEMS TO BE A LOT MORE SORT THIS TOWNSHIP RIGHT NOW, JUST SO YOU KNOW, MATTER OF FACT, WE HAVE A, A, A A, A INITIATIVE ON THE BALLOT THIS YEAR.
THEY KEEP OPEN SPACE, YOU KNOW, THESE TOWNSHIPS LIKE FOCUSED ON OPEN SPACE AND, AND YOU KNOW, ADDING THAT FRONT ON THE WEST SIDE THERE, THE NORTH SIDE JUST, I DON'T KNOW, THAT JUST DOESN'T APPEAL TO ME.
AND I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE HOUSING PART.
I'M JUST, THAT'S ANOTHER WHOLE ISSUE.
I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS PIECE RIGHT HERE.
YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S AN ISSUE.
BECAUSE THAT'S RIGHT ON THE HIGHWAY.
UM, SO THAT'S MY FEEDBACK AT THIS POINT.
I KNOW THIS IS JUST, YOU JUST LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK THIS POINT.
SO IF YOU'RE NOT GETTING FOR TENTATIVE OR ANYTHING, YOU'RE JUST, YOU'RE JUST LOOKING.
AND WE WERE, YOU KNOW, WE LOOKED THROUGH THE COMP PLAN AND IT'S SAYING THIS IS THE PLACE, WELL, DON'T USE OUR WORDS AGAINST US.
THAT MAY HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH IT, BUT YEAH.
BUT, UH, IT'S NOT FAIR TO USE IT AGAINST.
WELL, THAT'S WHY WE FIGURED YOU COULD SPEND YOUR MONEY AND ON PLACES WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT'S OPEN FARMLAND AND USE THE DENSITY HERE WHERE IT'S NEAR THE INTERCHANGE.
AND I DON'T THINK WE DISAGREE TOTALLY.
BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I DON'T, I'M SPEAKING FOR MYSELF.
YOU GUYS TELL, I DON'T THINK THIS IS APPEALING TO ANYONE.
WHAT WE HAVEN'T SAID TO YOU YET IS WE ALREADY HAVE, I DON'T KNOW, I HAVEN'T SEEN A COMPLETE ADD UP OF EVERYTHING, BUT THERE'S PROBABLY CLOSE TO 3000 UNITS THAT AREN'T BUILT YET ON THE BOOKS.
THEY'RE ALREADY APPROVED READY TO GO.
SO THAT'S WHY WE
AND THAT WAS SAID TO US WHEN WE CAME HERE FOR THE STAFF MEETING.
IT WAS LIKE, THERE'S A LITTLE FATIGUE HERE, DEVELOPMENT FATIGUE IN THE TOWNSHIP.
ED MULLIN'S MY PARTNER, I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN PARKHOUSE.
SO DON'T BRING THAT INTO BACKGROUND.
THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVE 335 ACRES THAT ARE FAILING.
THIS IS, THIS IS A TERRIBLE SCENARIO.
WE'VE GOTTA COME UP WITH SOMETHING FROM THE ROAD FROM 29.
IT LOOKS GREAT, BUT I MEAN, THESE ARE THE NUMBERS AND WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVITALIZE THIS.
THE OTHER THING IN THE COMP PLAN IS TO BE FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE WITH GENERATING TAX DOLLARS FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
THIS PROPERTY IS NOT DOING THAT.
IF, IF I'M, IF I MAY, YOU KNOW, AND I'M PROBABLY ACTUALLY, I DON'T WANNA PUT WORDS IN YOUR GUYS' MOUTH, BUT I, I REMEMBER WHEN A HOUSING DEVELOPMENT CAME UP HERE THAT WAS IN THAT INTER INTERCHANGE.
AND I WAS, I THINK, MORE PRO THAN THESE GUYS WERE.
SO, LIKE I, OR I PROBABLY LAID INTO YOU MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE HERE TODAY, BUT LIKE, I'M, YOU KNOW, ALL AFFORD THE HOUSE AND BY THE INTERCHANGE, LIKE DEVELOPMENT BY THE INTERCHANGE.
'CAUSE YOU'RE LIMITING THE TRAFFIC.
YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE'S COMMUTING TO PHILLY FROM THERE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA DRIVE BY MY HOUSE.
THEY'RE GONNA IT RIGHT OUT ON 4 22.
[01:05:01]
BUT I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, I HEAR YOU ON THE DEVELOPMENT, SEE YOUR PRO FORMA.UM, BUT LIKE THERE'S ALL THOSE PARKING LOTS.
WHY KEEP THE PARKING LOTS IF THE PROPERTIES ARE VACANT AND THEN TAKE AWAY OPEN SPACE? THAT'S THE PART THAT I DON'T GET.
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, ON THEORY, I MAY NOT EVEN BE THAT AGAINST THIS DEVELOPMENT, BUT THE WAY THAT IT'S DONE PRIOR, KEEPING THE PARKING WHEN IT'S NOT USED AND VACANT, AND THEN TAKING AWAY MORE OPEN SPACE AT A TIME, AS TOM MENTIONED, IS A HUGE PRIORITY FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
SO, WELL, MIKE, AT THIS POINT, I'M JUST KIND OF FOCUSING ON THE HOSPITAL AREA.
I, I DON'T KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT YET.
I HAVEN'T, I HAVE TO WRAP MY HAND AROUND THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE.
SO YOU WANT MORE 10 OF THOSE? NO, NO, NO.
I'M SAYING, I'M SAYING I LIKE TO HOPE.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT I FEEL ABOUT THAT.
SO KEVIN, JUST TO CLARIFY, SO YOUR PREFERENCE WOULD BE IF WE DID HIGHER DENSITY HOUSING IN THE EXISTING PARKING LOTS BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY DISTURBED, RATHER THAN DOING THE GREEN AREA, DOING LOWER DENSITY TOWNHOUSES ON THE GREEN AREA.
WELL, NOT JUST HOUSING MIXED USE, YOU KNOW, LIKE CONDENSED, CONDENSED THE SITE.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE BASICALLY, RIGHT NOW YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT AS ONE PARCEL, WHICH MAKES SENSE.
BUT FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, YOU COULD LOOK AT THIS DEVELOPMENT AS, AS, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE PARCELS.
'CAUSE YOU'RE LIKE PUTTING HOUSING OVER HERE.
I'VE GOT OFFICE HERE AND I'M GONNA PUT RETAIL OVER HERE.
AND IN MY MIND, MIXED USE COMBINES THOSE USES MORE SO THAT THE, THE DENSITY IS, IS SUCH WHERE IF SOMEONE ACTUALLY LIVED IN ONE OF THOSE HOUSES, THEY COULD WALK TO DOW MM-HMM
YOU KNOW, AND THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GONNA WANT TO WALK ACROSS A VACANT PARKING LOT IN THE MIDDLE OF JULY.
IT'S PROBABLY GONNA DRIVE ANYWAY.
UM, SO I DON'T, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S MORE CONDENSING THE USES ON THE SITE IN ORDER TO PRESERVE THE OPEN SPACE THAT WE ALL CARE ABOUT AND CREATE MORE OF A, YOU KNOW, HOMOGENOUS YEAH.
WELL, WE APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK AND WE'LL TAKE IT INTO CONSIDERATION.
I MEAN IT'S, I UNDERSTAND THE, YOU KNOW, OUR INITIATIVE TO TAKE EXISTING AREAS AND, AND YOU KNOW, TRY TO DEVELOP THOSE INTO A DIFFERENT MATTER FACT, THERE'S A BUILDING RIGHT DOWN THE STREET.
WE'VE ALREADY APPROVED A BLOCK DOWN THE ROAD HERE WHERE THEY'RE GONNA DO MIXED USAGE, THE RETAIL AND THE STACKED TOWNHOUSES.
THE ONE THAT, THAT WAS FORMERLY THE QUEST OFFICE BUILDING.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE APPROVED A MIXED USE NOW IT'S A LOT MORE CONDENSED.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT A MUCH BIGGER, YEAH, IT'S A LOT SMALLER.
BUT IT, THE POINT IS, WE'VE IMPROVED.
WE LIKE THOSE IDEAS OF, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, USE A PARKING, THEY'RE USING SOME OF THE PARKING LOT AND ALL THAT STUFF.
I I'M JUST SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, I DON'T, WE'RE NOT HERE TO SAY WE'RE AGAINST IT OR FOR, WE'RE JUST SAYING THAT THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY SOME THINGS THAT WE DON'T OR WE'D LIKE YOU TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT.
WE WILL, UM, TAKE ALL THIS AND GO BACK AND SHARPEN OUR PENCIL, SEE IF WE CAN SOMETHING.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER YOU THINK YOU COULD DO.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE READY FOR THIS RIGHT NOW.
NOW YOU WANT ALL THOSE PEOPLE.
NO, DON'T LET TALK THE TRAFFIC GUY.
HE LIKES TO GET UP HERE AND TALK.
AND I GAVE YOU AN IN TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC.
AND THAT'S WHY, AND WE KNEW HIM.
HE'S BEEN HERE MANY TIMES AND ERIC WORKED VERY HARD.
HE, HE'S IN THAT BAD WORD PLACE.
ERIC WORKED VERY HARD ON THE NUMBERS, THOSE FISCAL, THE FISCAL ANALYSIS.
SO, YOU KNOW, PLEASE GO HOME AND READ THAT IN YOUR SPARE TIME.
UM, FROM SEVEN TO THREE 50 MORE HOUSES.
UM, SO THAT BRINGS US TO, UH, I BELIEVE THE DISCUSSION, UH, ZACH'S, EVERYBODY GOT, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT LAST TIME, UM, UH, WHERE EVERYBODY WAS GOING TO.
I TALKED TO YOU ON THE PHONE ABOUT THIS, KEVIN, WHEN YOU WERE UP IN MICHIGAN.
UM, I DON'T DUNNO IF YOU HAD A CHANCE TO, WELL, I'M SURE YOU DID, UH, KIND OF REVIEW IT.
UM, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG HERE, ANY POINT, ZACH.
BUT WHAT ZACH'S ASKING OR LOOKING FOR US TO MAYBE, UH, TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION IS SOME SORT OF RULES AROUND, UM, SOME OF THESE MEETINGS WHEN THEY GET LARGE AND
[01:10:01]
A LOT OF PEOPLE COME IN AND, UH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF CONTROLLING THE AMOUNT OF TIME THEY SPEAK.HOW MANY TIMES DO HE SPEAK, CAN THEY GET UP MORE THAN ONCE? UH, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.
AND, UH, SO ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD TO THAT TODAY? YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THAT PUTTING THIS TOGETHER AROSE OUT OF, UH, ONE OF THE MORE RECENT MEETINGS THAT WE'VE HAD WHEN
AND OBVIOUSLY WE WANT TO HEAR THEIR FEEDBACK AND WE WANNA HAVE THEM PARTICIPATE.
BUT I THINK THAT IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAVE SOME WRITTEN GUIDELINES AS TO HOW TO MANAGE PUBLIC COMMENT.
AND A LOT OF TIMES THIS STUFF IS, IS DONE AT THE DISCRETION OF THE CHAIR OR WHOEVER, WHOEVER'S LEADING THE MEETING SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE A SMALLER APPLICATION, THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE HERE AND YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY CUTTING PEOPLE OFF, BUT TO THE EXTENT YOU DO HAVE A LARGER MEETING WHERE YOU DO HAVE A HUGE GROUP OF PEOPLE HERE, I THINK THAT IT'S GOOD TO HAVE A WRITTEN BASIS FOR MAKING DECISIONS ON PUBLIC COMMENT.
UM, SO YOU KNOW THIS PRETTY MUCH, I I I, I TRIED TO DRAFT THIS IN A WAY THAT GAVE YOU GUYS LEEWAY TO KIND OF RUN THE MEETINGS THE WAY THAT YOU WANT TO, BUT STILL HAVE KIND OF THE, THE TOOLS NECESSARY TO MANAGE A LARGER MEETING WITH A LOT OF ATTENDEES.
I HAD A COUPLE QUESTIONS THAT I, YOU KNOW, SINCE I'VE READ THIS, HE, UH, ZACH ACTUALLY PUT THIS OUT, YOU KNOW, A MONTH AGO.
AND, UH, AND UH, I'M SURE ALL OF YOU READ IT.
I, I'LL START WITH A COUPLE QUESTIONS THAT, AND I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES WITH THE, UH, NUMBER, UH, WHERE'S IT AT HERE, UM, 20 OH NUMBER FOUR, WHERE YOU TALK ABOUT REDUNDANT COMMENTS AND, AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.
'CAUSE WE, BUT WE SAY THAT AT EVERY MEETING PEOPLE COME TO, WE SAY, HEY, IF YOU, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HEAR SOMEBODY ELSE BRING UP A POINT AND THAT'S YOUR POINT, YOU KNOW, DON'T COME UP AND DO IT AGAIN.
SO HOW DO YOU STOP THAT? YEAH, WELL, WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK SOMEBODY HAS TO SAY WE APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS, BUT WE'VE ALREADY, WE UNDERSTAND THAT A ALREADY EXPRESSED THAT CONCERN AND WE APPRECIATED IT AND WE, AND, AND WE ACCEPT THE FACT THAT YOU'RE REITERATING, BUT, AND THAT THAT'S, THEY THINK, THEY THINK IT LED SOME CREDENCE TO, BUT THAT'S THE, THAT'S A PERSON WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT OFF THEIR CHEST.
AND I, I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF US TAKING THAT AWAY FROM I UNDERSTAND.
BUT THE POINT IS, IS I MEAN, YOU SAY, OKAY, FINE, AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE ZACH'S COMING FROM.
WE HAVE TO SAY, OKAY, FINE, WE UNDERSTAND AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR CONCERNS THE SAME.
AND NOW PLEASE, LET'S MOVE ON.
I THINK IT, I THINK IT'S MORE MEANT JUST AS A TOOL FOR YOU TO USE SURE.
THAT, THAT, THAT IF WE'RE AN HOUR AND A HALF DEEP INTO A MEETING AND EVERYBODY'S COME UP AND SAID, I THINK THE IMPACT ON INTERSECTION OF ROAD A AND ROAD B IS GONNA BE A PROBLEM, YOU AS THE CHAIR OR YOU AS A PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBER COULD SAY, WE REALLY APPRECIATE THAT WE UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, ROAD A AND ROAD B INTERSECTION IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE.
CAN WE, YOU KNOW, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? RIGHT.
AND, AND IT IS ONLY, I THINK AS IT DRAWS OUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN WE'VE ALREADY BEEN AN HOUR INTO THE DISCUSSION PERIOD.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALREADY HEARD THREE PEOPLE COMMENT THE SAME THING.
AND WE'RE NOW, YOU KNOW, AN HOUR AND A HALF IN WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WHAT YOU'RE NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT IS THAT THESE, THIS IS, THIS DIRECTLY AFFECTS THESE PEOPLE AND THEY DON'T THINK THEY'RE BEING REDUNDANT.
THEY WANT THEIR VOICE TO BE HEARD AND LET THEM HIRE, LET LET THEM SAY THEIR PIECE.
IF WE HAVE A FULL ROOM AND THIS GO, KIND OF GOES TO THE THREE MINUTES, YOU GOT THREE MINUTES TO EXPRESS YOUR CONCERNS.
WELL, I'M FINE WITH THREE MINUTES.
SO, SO, SO MY POINT THOUGH IS, IS THAT, SO AT SOME POINT YOU SAY, OKAY, WE'VE HEARD IT, WE UNDERSTAND, WE APPRECIATE IT, AND YOU KNOW, NOW WE'VE GOT SIX OF YOU, HOWEVER, AND WE APPRECIATE THE MAGNITUDE OF THE CONCERN.
WELL, IT'S A MATTER OF JUST CONTAINING IT SO THAT WE'RE NOT HERE AND IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, NINE O'CLOCK.
THE CONCERN I HAVE IS, AND I, AND I THINK IN THEORY THAT WORKS, BUT IF ONLY ONE PERSON MENTIONS, LET'S SAY TRAFFIC, OKAY, NOBODY'S EVEN GOING TO RESPOND, THAT'S FINE.
BUT, BUT, BUT OTHERS ARE GOING TO COME UP WITH OTHER THINGS, THAT'S FINE.
BUT YOU DON'T HAVE A RELATIVE, HOW IMPORTANT IS TRAFFIC COMPARED TO I DON'T OVERDEVELOPMENT OR WHATEVER? WELL, EVERY, WE WANT EVERYBODY TO EXPRESS THEIR OPINION.
I MEAN, THAT'S NOT, THAT GOES WITHOUT SAYING.
UM, THE ONLY ISSUE IS, IS THAT IF, IF IT'S A, IT IS A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE THAT'S BEING ADDRESSED, WE HAVE TO SOMEHOW PUT SOME RESTRICTIONS AND CONSTRAINTS AND UM, AND IT IS ONLY WHEN IT DRAWS OUT TO BECOME OVERLY
[01:15:01]
CUMBERSOME.I MEAN, I MEAN, COME UP AND SAY, I DON'T LIKE THE TRAFFIC, FINE, WE HEAR YOU AND WE ACCEPT IT.
AND NOW THAT'S, YOU KNOW, FOR AND OTHER WORDS GETS UP, WE, WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE TRAFFIC.
YOU KNOW, EXPRESS YOUR OPINION, THAT'S FINE.
BUT YOU KNOW, TO SAY, BUT YOU KNOW, WE GOT, YOU KNOW, I GET OUT OF MY DRIVEWAY AND MY HAVE MY, MY BABY STROLLER AND I MEAN, WE GO, OH, I MEAN THEY'RE, I MEAN I APPRECIATE HOW WE WANT TO HEAR THOSE HEAR COMMENTS, BUT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
THAT CONCERNS ME THAT WE'RE NOT GIVING THE PEOPLE A CHANCE TO
SO CAN I, CAN I GIVE YES PLEASE, ZACH.
THIS, I KNOW THAT WHAT YOU SAY IN THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING IS PUT ON, PUT OUT INTO THE ETHER, RIGHT? THIS GIVES YOU THE BASIS FOR TELLING SOMEONE, I'M SORRY MA'AM, WHAT YOU HAVE SAYING IS ALREADY BEEN BROUGHT UP MULTIPLE TIMES BY MULTIPLE PEOPLE.
OR YOU'VE STOOD UP EARLIER THIS EVENING, YOU'VE SAID THESE COMMENTS, YOU'RE JUST REPEATING YOURSELF.
WE NEED YOU TO STEP DOWN WITHOUT A WRITTEN PROCEDURE.
THEY COULD, RIGHT, THEY COULD COME BACK AND SAY, WELL, YOU'RE JUST ARBITRARILY DENYING ME THE RIGHT TO DO THIS.
THIS IS JUST GIVING YOU GUYS THE TOOL TO BE ABLE TO SAY TO THESE PEOPLE WHEN THEY COME UP AND YOU, YOU'RE HEARING, I MEAN, BECAUSE THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT STOOD UP AND LITERALLY SAID THE SAME THING THREE TIMES.
YOU NEED TO HAVE SOME SORT OF A TOOL AND ALL OF THIS STUFF IS WRITTEN SO THAT IT IS AT YOUR DISCRETION AS A, AS A PLANNING COMMISSION, RIGHT? THIS ISN'T SOMETHING WE'RE, JEFF'S GONNA BE SITTING THERE, YOU KNOW, HANDING OUT CITATIONS TO PEOPLE AS THEY'RE COMING UP BECAUSE THEY'RE EXCEEDING THEIR THREE MINUTES.
OR, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T GONNA BECOME A DRACONIAN TOOL OF SUPPRESSING PUBLIC COMMENT, ALRIGHT? THIS IS MERELY GIVING YOU GUYS A WRITTEN PROCEDURE THAT YOU CAN POINT TO IF AND WHEN IT BECOMES NECESSARY, A PROBLEM BECOMES A PROBLEM.
AND, AND LET, LET ME BRING UP THE EXAMPLE OF PARKHOUSE.
AND I KNOW NONE OF US REALLY ENJOYED THE PARKHOUSE SITUATION, BUT THE DISCUSSION OVER PARKHOUSE REALLY IN THE VERY BEGINNING GOT VERY REPETITIVE AND VERY MUCH LIKE, OH, COME ON.
YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THE PARK IS NOT BE GREAT.
WE KNOW THIS IS, AND IT WAS THE SAME THING FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE AS WE STARTED TO PUT SOME LIMITATIONS ON THIS, AND THIS IS A LITTLE BIT MORE AT THE BOARD LEVEL AS WE PUT SOME LIMITATIONS ON IT.
THREE MINUTES, PLEASE DON'T REPEAT YOURSELVES.
THE AUDIENCE GOT VERY SMART ABOUT IT AND SAID, AND THEY ORGANIZED THEMSELVES AND SAID LIKE, MS. BURGE, SHE GOT UP AND SHE HAD HER THREE MINUTE SPEECH.
MR. WELLEN GOT UP AND HE HAD HIS PART, UH, I'M DRAWING BLANK ON OTHER NAMES, BUT EVERYONE ELSE GOT UP AND THEY LEARNED AND THEY COORDINATED THEIR COMMENTS.
AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS MUCH MORE POWERFUL AND MUCH MORE, UM, USEFUL BECAUSE IT GOT MORE ACROSS.
IF WE'RE ALL SITTING UP HERE AND THE SEVENTH PERSON COMES UP AND SAYS, INTERSECTION A AND B IS JUST RIDICULOUS, WE'VE TUNED IT OUT BY THE FIFTH PERSON.
WELL, THAT KEVIN HAS A COMMENT, DOESN'T MAKE HIS COMMENT.
SO ONE, YOU KNOW, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT COME HERE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE COMING TO, WHICH IS FINE.
YOU, LIKE, YOU DON'T, NO ONE, YOU KNOW, IT NEEDS TO KNOW THESE THINGS, BUT THEY WANT TO BE CIVICALLY ENGAGED FOR SOME REASON.
SO THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T KNOW THEY DIRECTLY EVOLVE MOST OF THE TIME.
SO THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT AUTHORITY WE HAVE OR DON'T HAVE.
THEY DON'T KNOW THAT YOU ALL HAVE MANY TIMES ALREADY FLAGGED THE SAME CONCERNS THAT THEY HAVE AND PUT IT INTO A DOCUMENT THAT WE REVIEWED AND WE'LL GO ON TO TOWNSHIP SUPERVISORS, THEY DON'T KNOW.
THEY JUST KNOW THAT THIS THING IS IN THEIR BACKYARD.
AND SO I, I THINK THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS REALLY USEFUL BECAUSE IT SETS THE, THE BOUNDARIES OF THE CONVERSATION AHEAD OF TIME.
SO AS JEFF POINTED OUT, PEOPLE CAN KIND OF FIT THEIR INPUT INTO THAT AND FEEL LIKE THEY'VE BEEN HEARD JUST AS FAIRLY AS THE PERSON WHO'S ON THE OTHER SIDE AS THEM.
THE OTHER THING THOUGH THAT I WOULD SUGGEST AS A COMPANION TO THIS, IS THAT WHEN WE DO THE PRESENTATIONS, YOU KNOW, AND SOMETHING COMES UP, WE COULD CONSIDER HAVING, YOU KNOW, THE PRESENTATION FROM THE APPLICANT AND THEN PRESENTATION FROM YOU GUYS JUST SHORT, BUT HIGHLIGHTING WHAT WE HAVE AND HAVE SEEN WHAT THEY HAVEN'T SEEN.
WELL, WE ALWAYS ASK, I ALWAYS ASK JEN AND BRIAN IN THIS CASE, DO YOU WANNA MAKE ANY COMMENTS? DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH, WITH THE, UH, WITH THE PRESENTATION OR YOU HAVE ANY COMMENT ABOUT THE PRESENTATION? I THINK WHAT HE'S SAYING IS HE'S SUGGESTING THAT MAYBE THERE ARE SOME HIGH LEVEL POINTS PERHAPS THAT JEN AND
SO THE PRESENTATION FOR APPLICANT, YOU KNOW, SHORT OVERVIEW OF WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY CONVEYED TO US AS YOUR CONCERNS.
[01:20:01]
UH, AND THEN I THINK FROM THE PUBLIC, AND THEN WE CAN BE IN A POSITION TO TAKE WHAT YOUR CONCERNS ARE, WHAT THE PUBLIC'S CONCERNS ARE, AND OUR OWN CONCERNS AND SHOOT THEM BACK TO THE APPLICANT.AND I THINK HAVING, I'VE SEEN A COUPLE TIMES WE GET INTO SITUATIONS WHERE IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE PUBLIC COMES UP, ASKS A QUESTION AND WE SEND THEM DOWN AND THEN THE APPLICANT COMES UP AND THERE'S THIS LITTLE LIKE SONG AND DANCE SORT OF THING THAT MAKES IT, IT FEEL, YOU KNOW, LIKE IT COULD GO ON ON FOREVER.
I I I THINK PART OF, PART OF THE ISSUE, PART OF THE FLAW IN THE SYSTEM, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU EVER CORRECT IT, IS THAT WE COULD SIT UP HERE AND WE KNOW THE PROCESS FROM A TO Z.
WE'VE BEEN THROUGH IT A DOZEN TIMES IN THE LAST YEAR.
WE'VE BEEN THROUGH IT A HUNDRED TIMES IN OUR LIFE.
SO WE KNOW THAT WHEN WE, OUR REVIEW LETTERS GET OUT AND I MAKE A COMMENT SAYING, YOU NEED TO DO A, B, AND C FOR THE NEXT PLAN ITERATION, THAT THE APPLICANT BY EVEN SHOWING UP HERE IS ACKNOWLEDGING THAT.
AND THEY'RE SAYING WE WILL COMPLY.
THERE ISN'T ENOUGH EXPLANATION OF WHAT'S IN OUR LETTER TO THE AUDIENCE TO EXPLAIN TO THEM THAT WE FLAGGED THESE THINGS.
AND WHILE THEY MAY GET AN APPROVAL OR A RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT, THEY KNOW THEY HAVE MORE WORK TO DO.
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WHEN THEY COME IN HERE THINK WHEN YOU ALL VOTE LIKE YOU DID TONIGHT FOR EMORY MANOR, WHICH THAT'S A REALLY BAD EXAMPLE, BUT LET'S SAY LET'S PARKHOUSE THAT THAT IS FAL COMPLETE, THAT YOU ARE DONE, THAT THAT IS THEIR CONSTRUCTION'S STARTING ON TUESDAY.
AND WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT SITTING UP HERE, BUT THAT'S A FLAW IN THE SYSTEM THAT THE AUDIENCE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND.
AND ZACH AND I, AND ALL OF US NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF MAYBE EXPLAINING THAT SOMETIMES I THINK PEOPLE DON'T LISTEN IN THE AUDIENCE.
THEY JUST, THEY DON'T LISTEN BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE HERE, THEY'RE INVOLVED, THEY, YOU KNOW, IT'S EMOTIONAL FOR 'EM.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, ROBOTIC ABOUT THIS, THAT THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE WAY, BUT THERE NEEDS TO BE, WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT SOME COMPROMISE FOR THAT.
AND I DON'T, I THINK THIS HELPS THESE RULES AND REGULATIONS BECAUSE IT DOES SORT OF PUT A FRAME AROUND THE BOX SO THAT WHEN SOMEONE COMES TO ME AND SAYS, WELL, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN AT THIS MEETING? WHAT CAN I SAY? WHAT DO I DO? I CAN GIVE THEM THESE RULES AND PARAMETERS AND SAY, WELL HERE'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO STAY UNDER.
WE CAN HAVE THEM IN THE BACK, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY KNOW WHAT TO WORK UNDER AND THAT, YOU KNOW, AND YES, SHOULD WE DO A BETTER JOB ON THIS SIDE OF EXPLAINING THINGS AND MAYBE GOING THROUGH OUR REVIEW MORE SO THAN JUST GOING, OKAY, YOU WILL COMPLY.
AND THEN GOING BACK TO DUELING, I MEAN, MAYBE WE NEED TO DO THAT MORE AND THAT PUTS MORE BURDEN, ADD MORE TIME.
WE'RE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT THAT IT'S GONNA ADD MORE TIME.
BUT, AND, AND I THINK THE, I THINK THE GUIDELINES ARE GOOD.
AS LONG AS THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE.
AND I, AND I SAY IF THEY'RE GUIDELINES, BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY ZACH, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT REDUNDANT PEOPLE.
WELL TELL ME WHAT THAT CUTOFF IS.
IS IT THREE PEOPLE THEN YOU CUT IT OFF? IS IT FIVE PEOPLE? WHAT JEFF SAID, IS IT SEVEN PEOPLE BEFORE WE CUT IT OFF? WHAT'S THAT NUMBER THAT WE SAY THERE, THERE YOU TALK ABOUT IT, BETTY.
SO YOU'RE, NOBODY ELSE CAN TALK ABOUT IT.
THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO ABSOLUTE.
IF THERE ISN'T, THEN WE'LL WORK ON IT.
AND I THINK THAT, THAT, AS ZACH SAID, THIS IS A A THE FRAMEWORK AS TO AS TO LAY SOME GROUND, GROUND RULES.
BUT I THINK, I THINK WE ALL ARE IN AGREE, BUT WE WANT TO HEAR EVERYTHING THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY.
AND I ONLY THINK THAT WHEN IT BECOMES ABUSE DONE, WHEN THE CONVERSATIONS AND, AND THE INPUT BECOME SO REDUNDANT AND AND TIME CONSUMING, AND THAT'S GONNA BE A CASE BY CASE.
IT HAS TO BE A PERSON BY PERSON.
AND, AND I THINK MONEY WE WILL ERROR ON THE SIDE OF BEING MORE WILLING TO LISTEN TO THAT REDUNDANCY THAN CUT IT OFF.
BUT AT LEAST WE HAVE A SET OF GROUND RULES THAT WE
WELL, THE GUIDELINES, IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, IT'S GUIDELINES THAT WE CAN IMPLEMENT IF IT, WE FEEL THAT IT'S GETTING OUTTA CONTROL HERE IT IS.
AND, AND WE DID JUST MANAGE IT AS, AS A, AS A GROUP.
HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE WALKED IN HERE AND THERE'S 50, 60 PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT ARE ALL FOR ONE DEVELOPMENT, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT.
WELL, AND I, MY POINT ABOUT THE, THE, NOT TO PUT YOU GUYS ON THE SPOT A LITTLE BIT, BUT LIKE WALKING THROUGH THE LETTERS A LITTLE BIT, WHY I THINK THAT WE SHORTEN TIME IS I ACTUALLY HAD TWO NEIGHBORS AFTER THE, THE MONT CLAIRE BONANZA THE OTHER DAY.
AND ONE OF THEM THAT I REMEMBER WAS ABOUT TREES.
IT WAS, I THINK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN EQUEST RE DEVELOPMENT.
YOU WEREN'T ALREADY FLAGGED A CONCERN ABOUT TREES, I THINK.
AND THE, THEY HAD A WAIVER WITH REQUEST AROUND TREES AND THEY HAD TO PLANT STUFF.
AND I REMEMBER EXACTLY, BUT YOU KNOW, THE PERSON CAME UP AND NOT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT BEFOREHAND.
NOT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT THE PLANNING PROCESS AND WHAT WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO AND NOT DO WHAT A WAIVER IS
[01:25:01]
AND ISN'T, UH, SHE, SHE BROUGHT UP TRUTH 'CAUSE SHE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT TRUTH AND THEN SHE FOUND OUT THAT YOU HAD KIND OF ALREADY FLAGGED THAT AND IT WAS ALREADY WORKING THROUGH THE PROCESS.AND SHE TOLD ME AFTERWARDS, UH, THAT SHE WOULDN'T HAVE BROUGHT IT UP IF SHE ALREADY KNEW IT WAS A CONCERN AND SHE KIND OF FELT LIKE AN IDIOT COMING THERE, BEING BELITTLED.
WELL, I, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT PERSON.
BANK OF ALL, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT.
I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE, THE, THE BOARD, THE BOARD DOESN'T PUT OUT THEIR PACKETS BEFOREHAND.
MY PACKETS COME OUT AND YES, IT, THIS ONE'S 136 PAGES.
IT WOULD'VE BEEN LONGER IF 5 92 MIDNIGHT ROAD WOULD'VE STAYED NOT TOO MUCH LONGER 'CAUSE THEY WERE ONLY INTENDED AND CONDITIONALLY.
BUT I TRY TO KEEP, LIKE, I TAKE THE, THE DOCUMENTS AND I CONDENSE 'EM AS MUCH AS I CAN.
I MEAN THERE HAS TO BE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF READING ABOUT IT BEFOREHAND, NOT JUST SHOWING UP AT THE MEETING.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF FREE TIME, BUT THERE IS INFORMATION OUT THERE FOR PEOPLE TO READ.
AND SOMETIMES I, I'M A LITTLE FRUSTRATED THAT PEOPLE DON'T READ AN ENOUGH TIME.
WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T FIX IGNORANCE.
AND I, AND PEOPLE SAY TO ME ALL THE TIME, WELL, WELL WHY DON'T YOU NOTIFY ABOUT EVERY MEETING? WELL, IT IS, THEY'RE OUT THERE.
AND, AND TO BE PERFECTLY FRANK, UNLESS I'M KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR AND TELLING YOU ABOUT A MEETING BECAUSE I THINK YOU MIGHT BE CONCERNED, I'M ALWAYS GONNA MISS SOMEBODY.
NO NOTIFICATION SYSTEM IS PERFECT.
WE DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO BY STATE LAW.
WE SORT OF STICK TO THAT MINIMUM.
SHOULD WE DO MORE? I, I GUESS.
BUT ONCE YOU DO MORE, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO DO ONE MORE AND THEN ONE MORE.
YOU DO, YOU DO 500 FEET BECAUSE IT'S A REQUIREMENT AND THEY DO A THOUSAND FEET BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE WANT.
WELL NOW SOMEONE THAT'S 1100 FEET AWAY GOES, WELL, BUT WHY DON'T YOU JUST DO 1500? WELL THEN WHY DON'T YOU DO 2000? SO YOU HAVE TO SET YOUR LINE SOMEWHERE.
ALL THIS DOES IS SORT OF SET A LINE FOR US AND WE CAN CROSS IT.
JUST LIKE I CAN NOTIFY AT A THOUSAND FEET IF I FEEL THE NEED TO DO IT HERE.
YOU CAN FINALLY SAY TO SOMEBODY AT NINE 30, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TRAFFIC COMMENTS.
WE ACKNOWLEDGE IT, WE, WE UNDERSTAND.
WE ARE ON BOARD WITH YOU WITH THE TRAFFIC COMMENTS.
WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE ANY MORE TRAFFIC COMMENTS.
IF ANYBODY HAS ANYTHING BESIDES TRAFFIC, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
WELL, THEY PROBABLY STILL WILL.
AND YOU PROBABLY GET THE PERSON IN THE AUDIENCE GOING, YOU CAN'T TELL ME I CAN'T TALK YOUR SUBJECT AND ON YEAH.
WELL, NO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN HEAR WHAT JEFF SAID.
PEOPLE ARE GONNA COME UP AND SAY, YOU CAN'T TELL ME NOT TO TALK ABOUT THIS SUBJECT OR RIGHT.
THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT.
THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT.
YOU SHORT YOUR SHOULDERS SAY YES SIR, PLEASE, YES.
I'M NOT GONNA, WE'RE NOT GONNA PUT ANYBODY DOWN OR BELITTLE ANYBODY 'CAUSE THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING.
THEY DON'T LET ME HAVE A BADGE AND THEY DON'T LET ME HAVE A TEASER.
SO I, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING TO ANYBODY OVER HERE.
AND THAT'S MY CONCERN OF THE WHOLE THING.
WE SHOULD, BUT YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO TAKE IT INDIVIDUALLY PER THE, THE ISSUES THAT HE, THE APPLICANT CORRECT.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, FEEL THAT EVERYBODY GOT, YOU KNOW, THAT MEETING WAS LONG.
THAT GOES TO THE OTHER THING ON HERE, BUT WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT LATER.
BUT I FELT THAT, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD ANYBODY GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THEIR APPOINTMENT WAS SOME REDUNDANCE.
YOU KNOW, DID PEOPLE COME UP TWICE, THREE TIMES, I DON'T KNOW THREE TIMES, BUT COME UP TWICE.
I MEAN, YOU COME UP, YOU SAY YOUR PIECE, THEN YOU'RE DONE.
BUT, BUT, UM, AND YOU CAN'T BE GOING, YOU KNOW? OH YEAH.
BILL, JUST I WANT TO ADD TO WHAT BILL JUST SAID, YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN UP HERE.
YOU CAN'T YEAH, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOMEONE COMING UP SECOND SAYING, WELL, ALRIGHT, THE, THE, THE APPLICANT BROUGHT UP THIS.
I HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THAT BEFORE.
SOMETHING THAT'S NEW AND DIFFERENT.
THAT'S, I I UNDERSTAND THAT AND THAT MAKES SENSE.
I WANT THIS TO BE AN EDUCATIONAL PROCESS FOR EVERYBODY.
I DON'T, AND I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE WHERE PEOPLE JUST COME UP AND BE ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
YOUR JOB HERE IS NOT TO TAKE ABUSE.
YOUR JOB HERE IS TO LOOK, I'VE NEVER FELT THAT.
I FELT, EVEN WITH PARK HOUSE, I DIDN'T FEEL THAT.
THE ONLY TIME I GOT MAD AT PARK HOUSE IS WHEN THEY WOULD SAY THINGS LIKE, OH, ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE ON THE TANK.
YOU'RE ALL, YOU'RE ALL TAKING MONEY FROM THE DEVELOPER.
BUT I NEVER FELT, I PERSONALLY NEVER FELT EVEN PARKHOUSE THAT ANYBODY WAS ABUSING ME PERSONALLY.
AND I'M, I'M NOT IMPLYING THAT PEOPLE WERE, I JUST, I KNOW SOMETIMES THAT, THAT, EXCEPT FOR THAT ONE JERK HADN'T BEEN HERE FOR A WHILE.
BUT YEAH, THAT GUY, I CAN'T THINK OF THAT.
HE DOESN'T LIVE THERE ANYMORE.
THERE'S SOME ISSUES GOING ON THERE, BUT I DON'T KNOW.
I'M JUST SAYING IT DOES THAT THAT YEAH.
SO HE HE'S NOT COMING ANYMORE MEETING? NO, I NEVER SAY THAT.
YOU WOULD THINK NEVER SAY THAT.
I ALWAYS FELT THAT HIS, HIS REAL HARD ON WAS FOR, UH, JOE.
DID HE JUST COME UP HERE TO SO HE COULD GET
[01:30:01]
WITH JOE? YEAH, WELL I TAKE, I TAKE EXCELLENT EVERY MINUTE OF IT.THE ISSUE HERE IS WHEN JOE'S NAME TAG BACK UP IF HE SHOWS UP.
AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM WHEN THEY, WE DO THAT? DO THEY GET PUBLISHED JEFF? OR WE ASK THEM IN GOLD AND PUT THEM ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING.
MEN IN GOLD, WE TABLETS COME BACK FROM THE MOUNTAIN WITH TWO TABLETS.
NO, I MEAN, HONESTLY, I THINK THAT PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, HAVING SOME OF THEM AVAILABLE IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM WHEN PEOPLE WERE THERE, MAYBE WE HAVE BULLET POINTS UP ON THE SCREEN WHEN PEOPLE ARE FIRST COMING IN.
I MEAN, AND ALSO I THINK IT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHETHER A PROJECT IS CONTROVERSIAL.
THAT'S TONIGHT, THERE IS NOBODY OUT.
WE DON'T NEED TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT.
BUT IF PARKHOUSE COMES THROUGH AGAIN AND WE KNOW THAT THERE'RE GONNA BE A LOT OF PEOPLE THERE, AND IT MAKES SENSE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING TO SAY, LOOK, THE PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENT, LIKE RULES AND, AND REQUIREMENTS AROUND PUBLIC COMMENT, YOU KNOW, JUST KEEP IT CIVIL.
YOU KNOW, YOU KIND OF RUN THROUGH A SUMMARY OF THEM AT THE BEGINNING.
AND AS I SAID, YOU HAVE DISCRETION ON HOW YOU'RE GONNA APPLY THESE AND YOU'RE, IT'S A FACT, IT'S A SITUATION BY SITUATION.
WE HAVE, IN THE EVENT THAT YOU NEED TO RULE OFF, YOU NEED TO SHUT DOWN THE MEETING, YOU NEED TO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE HIT 11 O'CLOCK AND YOU'RE LIKE THAT GUYS, THIS IS BEYOND, YOU NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING WRITTEN AND ADOPTED THAT SAYS THAT THAT'S THE WAY THE MEETINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO GO.
I I HAVE TWO THINGS THAT I SORT OF WANT TO BRING UP.
UM, DURING PARKHOUSE, WE, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, FOR TRAIN THE AUDIENCE TO ASK TO BE PUT ON A SIGN IN SHEET.
I DIDN'T, THAT'S NOT IN HERE, IS IT? NO, IT'S NOT IN THERE.
I MEAN, WE CAN CERTAINLY PUT THAT.
I I I, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT IF, IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION SO CHOOSES THEY CAN MAKE PEOPLE SIGN IN BEFOREHAND.
I THINK THAT WAS A VERY EFFICIENT WAY OF GETTING PEOPLE.
I THINK IT USED TO, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEN IT WAS THEN GO BY ORDER.
I, BECAUSE THEN I, THEY WOULD COME IN AND THEY WOULD SIGN UP AND THE PEOPLE WOULD COMMENT AND I WOULD SAY, ALL RIGHT MR. SMITH, YOU'RE NEXT.
THAT'S THE ONLY ONE WE EVER USED THAT FOR.
THERE'S SOME MUNICIPALITIES I GO INTO AND THAT'S HOW EVERY MEETING, EXCEPT FOR, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY SAY, OKAY, BRING UP THE LIST.
AND THEY SAY, OKAY, THE FIRST PERSON FOR PUBLIC COMMENT IS, JOE SMITH, CAN YOU PLEASE STAND UP? YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES, OR TRY TO KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO THREE MINUTES.
DO WE, DO WE NEED TO FORMALIZE THAT AS PART OF THESE GUIDELINES? YEAH, I CAN, I CAN, I CAN PUT SOME JUST HAS TO ADD, WE DON'T HAVE TO ADOPT THESE TONIGHT.
I MEAN IF WE, IF WE WANNA MAKE CHANGES, WE MIGHT AS WELL.
LET ME CHANGE 'EM AND THEN, THEN YOU GUYS CAN ADOPT.
WELL, I MEAN, WHAT'S THE OTHER ONE YOU SAID YOU HAD TWO, JEFF? UM, I KNOW WITH THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, WE HAVE A, UM, AND I'M SORRY TO BRING THIS UP NOW.
THEY REALLY JUST SORT OF OCCURRED TO ME NOW, ZACH, I'M NOT TRYING TO STAND BACK OR ANYTHING.
UM, THAT THEY WON'T, I, I KNOW IT SAYS HERE THAT NO SUCH AS OR SUCH OTHER TIME AS ADVERTISED AND SHALL GENERALLY END BY NINE O'CLOCK OR TWO HOURS AFTER COMMENCEMENT AT THE DISCRETION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS.
ADDITIONAL TIME MAY BE AFFORDED UNTIL 10:00 PM OR THREE HOURS.
UM, IF WE HAVE ONE THING THAT'S ON THE AGENDA THAT'S REALLY CONTROVERSIAL, THAT TAKES TWO HOURS AND THEN THERE'S SOMEBODY LIKE EMORY MANOR THAT'S REALLY SHORT, THEY'RE GONNA GET SHORTCHANGED.
I USUALLY TEND TO PUT THE NON-CONTROVERSIAL THINGS ON FIRM, FIRM THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S HOW I STRUCTURE THE AGENDA.
BUT IF, IF WE KNOW THAT SOMETHING IS, IF WE DON'T QUITE KNOW THAT IT'S GONNA BE CONTROVERSIAL AND IT JUST HAPPENS TO BE LISTED FIRST, IS THERE A WAY WE CAN STRUCTURE SOMETHING IN HERE TO SAY, APPLICATIONS ARE LIMITED TO TWO HOURS.
UM, IF NO, UM, RECOMMENDATION IS BEING MADE, IT MAY CONTINUE TO THE NEXT MEETING OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
YEAH, I MEAN, I MEAN, DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M FIRST SAYING? THAT, THAT IF WE, IF WE DO THIS AND WE, SOMEBODY COME IN, WE START PARKHOUSE AT SEVEN O'CLOCK, PARKHOUSE IS GONNA GO TILL NINE O'CLOCK AND AND WILLS GETS, HAS TO GO HOME.
AND THE OTHER DEVELOPMENTS, WELL THAT WAS MY OTHER, THAT WAS MY OTHER CONCERN WITH THAT WAS EXACTLY THAT.
BECAUSE IN THE CASE OF THAT THING THE OTHER NIGHT, YEAH, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON THE, THE FIRST PLAN OR THE ORIGINAL PLAN AND THEN THAT SECOND ONE, I MEAN, THEY HAD A WHOLE PRESENTATION TO MAKE IT, IT WAS LATE.
AND WHAT ARE WE, WHAT DO WE DO? IN THAT CASE, YOU CAN'T SAY, WELL, WE'VE GONE PAST THAT TIME AND COME BACK NEXT MONTH.
WELL, THERE, THERE IS, IF YOU LOOK AT ITEM SEVEN, IT SAYS THAT THE PRE IF THE PRESIDING COMMISSION MEMBER DETERMINES THE PUBLIC INTEREST IN THE PARTICULAR ISSUE OF SUCH MAGNITUDE, THAT IT WILL IMPEDE AND INTERFERE WITH THE ABILITY OF THE COMMISSION TO CONDUCT AND COMPLETE ITS BUSINESS WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME.
COMMISSION MAY DEFER FURTHER COMMENT ON ISSUES TO THE END OF THE MEETING OR TO ITS NEXT REGULAR SPECIAL MEETING.
I MEAN, I, I THINK THAT GIVES YOU THE LEEWAY
[01:35:01]
TO, TO CUT IT OFF IF YOU NEED TO CUT IT OFF.YOU KNOW, IF YOU, IF YOU'VE SPENT TWO AND A HALF HOURS ON ONE PROJECT AND YOU HAVE OTHER STUFF ON THE AGENDA, YOU CAN SAY, LOOK, WE HAVE OTHER STUFF WE NEED TO GET TO, WE'RE GONNA CUT THIS OFF TABLE IT CONTINUE, WE'LL CONTINUE NEXT.
BUT LET'S, LET'S JUST SAY IN THAT EXAMPLE, IN THAT CASE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, UH, SCHOOL ONE WAS TWO HOURS, OR LET'S JUST SAY IT WAS TWO HOURS.
I DON'T REMEMBER HOW LONG IT WAS, BUT LET'S SAY IT'S TWO HOURS.
WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THE NEXT ONE CAME UP.
IS THAT 45 MINUTES? IT COULD BE TWO HOURS TOO.
WELL, I MEAN, IN, IN THOSE SITUATIONS, A LOT OF TIMES YOU CAN JUST KIND OF HOLD THE AUDIENCE.
YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, IS THERE ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE WHO'S SPECIFICALLY HERE FOR THIS PROJECT? AND A LOT OF TIMES AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING, IF YOU SEE A BIG ROOM OF PEOPLE, YOU SAY, EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE FOUR THINGS ON THE AGENDA.
WE YOU'RE HERE FOR ITEM A BLAH, BLAH, BLAH ADDRESS.
CAN YOU JUST RAISE YOUR HAND SO WE HAVE AN IDEA OF YEAH, BUT I MEAN THAT'S THE GENERAL CONSENSUS OF THE YEAH.
BUT THAT NIGHT THERE WAS NOBODY ELSE HERE FOR THAT.
ALLISON MADE HER PRESENTATION AND WE ASKED A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND SHE, YOU KNOW, HAD HER WHOLE THING.
IT TOOK AN HOUR AND A HALF OR SO.
AND, AND THAT'S WHY WHEN YOU HAVE A FULL ROOM, IT MAY MAKE SENSE TO KIND OF PULL THE AUDIENCE AHEAD OF TIME AND JUST SAY, JUST TO GET A SHOW OF HANDS, YOU KNOW, WHO'S HERE FOR THIS ITEM? WHO'S HERE FOR THAT ITEM? IF NO ONE'S HERE FOR ONE ITEM, YOU SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA TAKE THAT ONE FIRST.
YOU KNOW, EVERYONE IS WELCOME TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT AS THAT'S NOT A PRIMARY INTEREST, WE'RE GONNA TAKE CARE OF THAT FIRST AND THEN WE'LL MOVE TO THE NEXT ITEM.
I MEAN, ALL OF THIS STUFF IS, IS IS WHERE WE'RE PAYING.
SO YOU WANNA MAKE A COUPLE CHANGES, JEFF SAID AND YEAH, AND I, I CAN ADD, I CAN ADD SOME FURTHER.
I CAN PUT SOME, I CAN SOFTEN THE THREE HOUR LIMIT AND JUST SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THE DISCRETION OF THE, OF THE COMMISSION MEMBER, YOU KNOW, TIME CAN BE EXTENDED AND THAT NECESSARY.
THANK YOU ZACH FOR DOING THAT.
THAT IS GOOD STUFF IS GOOD STUFF BECAUSE YEAH, IT'S GOOD STUFF.
WELL, IT SAYS THAT THE DISCRETION OF THE COMMISSION MEMBERS MAY AFFORDED UNTIL UNTIL OR THREE BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW THE SECOND ONE.
THE SECOND ONE, YOU MAY NOT HAVE KNOW HOW LONG.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
OKAY.UM, THE SEPTEMBER 3RD TENTATIVE AGENDA WE WOULD NATURALLY TALK ABOUT BECAUSE THE SECOND MEETING OF THE MONTH, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ACTION ITEMS. UM, I HAVEN'T TALKED TO BRIAN ABOUT THIS.
I'M NOT GONNA BE PREPARED WITH ANYTHING FOR THE RICH BIKE ZONING.
IT'S JUST BET IT IS JUST BETWEEN EVERYTHING CATCHING UP AND THESE MEETINGS ARE RELATIVELY CLOSE BECAUSE THE MEETING IN AUGUST IS LATE.
THE MEETING IN SEPTEMBER IS EARLY.
UM, I'M, I DON'T WANT TO SHORT SHORTCHANGE MY TIME ON IT OR WHAT I PRESENT TO YOU FOR THE NEXT ROUND OF, 'CAUSE WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT LANGUAGE AND WHAT THE LANGUAGE WOULD BE.
I REALLY WANT THAT TO BE SOLID.
SO I WANNA PUT THAT OFF UNTIL OCTOBER.
SO WE HAVE NOTHING ON THE AGENDA THEN RIGHT NOW.
I'M NOT SURE I'M GONNA DEFER TO BRIAN.
SO AS YOU REQUESTED, UH, FROM THE CRASH ANALYSIS THAT WE DID PRESENTED TO YOU THE LAST TIME, UH, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS AND, AND I PLAN TO HAVE READY FOR YOU FOR TWO WEEKS FROM TONIGHT A RECOMMENDATION THAT YOU COULD PASS ON TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS FOR INCLUSION AND BUDGET FOR THAT WAS THE PLAN.
AND I DO THINK, I DO THINK HAVING HIM ON THE AGENDA IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE ARE GETTING THE BUDGET REASON.
SO THAT WILL BE, THAT WILL BE THE AGENDA.
AGENDA THAT WOULD REPLACE THE, UM, THE, WELL, LAST MONTH WE DID BOTH.
I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW THAT I DON'T WANT, WE'RE GONNA DO THAT.
THAT WE'LL JUST DO THAT FOR NOW.
AND IF SOMETHING ELSE COMES UP, IF THERE'S ANOTHER LAND DEVELOPMENT OR, OR THERE'S A CHANCE THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE OPEN SPACE REFERENDUM, THEN THAT MIGHT BE AN AGENDA ITEM JUST AS A, NOT YOUR OPINION ON IT, BUT JUST SORT OF A DISCUSSION ITEM TO INTRODUCE IT TO THE PUBLIC AND THAT THAT MIGHT BE AN OPTION TOO.
SO, UM, I THINK WE SHOULD STILL HAVE THE MEETING.
THEN OCTOBER 1ST WE'RE GONNA HAVE, I THOUGHT YOU WERE LEADING TO THAT THOUGH.
I THOUGHT YOU WERE LEADING TO THERE'S NOTHING ON THE AGENDA.
I MEAN WE ARE SORT OF TANGENTIALLY AWARE OF IT.
UM, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A FASTER CYCLE ON THAT.
NOT FOR ANY OTHER REASON THAN IT REALLY IS JUST AS A TENTATIVE PLAN.
AND I THINK THAT WE CAN, WITH THAT SORT OF DEVELOPMENT, WE CAN PUSH IT THROUGH FAIRLY QUICKLY.
UM, AT LEAST AT THIS LEVEL WHEN IT GETS TO THE ENGINEERING, I THINK IT MADE A LITTLE BIT MORE COMPLICATED.
BUT FROM A, I AGREE FROM A, FROM A TENTATIVE SKETCH STANDPOINT, IT'S A FAIRLY EASY APPLICATION AS THEY TEND TO GO.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE A, A COLLABORATIVE, UM, THEIR, THEIR ATTORNEY, MR. CLEMENT, JOE CLEMENT, THERE ARE TWO OF THEM.
UM, HE CALLED ME ON TUESDAY AND SAID, BASED ON SOME QUESTIONS IN
[01:40:01]
THE LETTER IN JEN'S LETTER OF HER AND BRIAN'S COMMENTS, THAT THEY WANTED TO REVIEW IT INTERNALLY AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAD ADEQUATE ANSWERS.SO WE ARE GONNA SIT DOWN WITH 'EM AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE LETTERS, ABOUT THEIR LETTERS AND THEN WHAT WE NEED TO DO, THEIR PLAN IS TO BE HERE PROBABLY OCTOBER 1ST.
I DIDN'T PUT IT UP THERE 'CAUSE IT'S STILL KIND OF IN FLUX, BUT MAYBE OCTOBER 1ST.
AND THEN, UM, GO BACK TO THE CONDITIONAL USE HEARING IN OCTOBER.
AND, AND ONE LAST THING, BRIAN, ON, ON THAT UH, THING FOR TWO WEEKS.
ARE YOU GOING TO UH, UH, TELL US WHAT THOSE PEOPLE ARE HIDDEN ON THE ROOF?
I ASK EVERYBODY, I SHOW 'EM THAT THING BECAUSE IT'S REALLY GREAT INFORMATION AND I SAY, DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT THEY'RE HITTING HERE? WE DUNNO YET.
YOU SHOULD GO BACK AND WATCH IT.
PICKLE YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO.
IS IT THE PICKLEBALL ON THE, UH, PICKLEBALL IS ZONING HEARING? YES.
NOW MR. PETERSON AND I HAD THIS DISCUSSION ONE DAY, HE WANTED TO KNOW WHY HE DIDN'T GET TO WEIGH ON THE PICKLEBALL PART OF IT BECAUSE THE PICKLEBALL IS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
NOW THE BOARD DID HAVE SOME QUESTIONS AND ZACH AND I ARE FORMULATING SOME CONDITIONS THAT WE WOULD LIKE THEM TO POTENTIALLY ENTERTAIN TO PUT ON THE PICKLEBALL IN TERMS OF BUFFERING, NOISE, ATTENUATION, SOME OTHER THINGS, LIGHTING, UM, HOURS OF OPERATION.
THOSE ARE THINGS WE'RE GONNA PUT IN A LETTER AND GET THE BOARD THE BOARD IS COMFORTABLE WITH.
UM, BUT THE PICKLEBALL PORTION WILL BE ON THE ZONING HEARING BOARD HEARING A WEEK FROM YESTERDAY, SO ON THE NINTH.
AND THEN THE ENTERTAINMENT AND THE TENTATIVE SKETCH.
SO YOU'RE WEIGHING IN ON THE ENTERTAINMENT USES AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PICKLEBALL SITE.
THE ONLY THING YOU ARE NOT REALLY GETTING TO WEIGH IN ON IS WHETHER OR NOT THEY CAN DO THE PICKLEBALL.
YOU'RE GETTING TO WEIGH IN ON HOW IT'S CONFIGURED ON THE SITE.
IN THIS CASE IT IS THE ZONING HEARING BOARD'S DECISION.
SO I'M JUST, I WANNA EXPLAIN THAT BECAUSE I HAVE, I EVEN GOT QUESTIONS TODAY ABOUT, WELL THIS IS CANCELED, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING ON.
AND I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT IT IS REALLY JUST A QUESTION ABOUT THE PICKLEBALL USE IN FRONT OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
BUT ONCE THE ZONING BOARD SAYS, OKAY, YOU CAN USE IT THAT WAY, THEY CAN USE IT THAT WAY.
THEN WE HAVE INPUT ON YES, THE LIGHTING AND THE NOISE AND ALL THAT STUFF THAT YOU'RE YES.
THE PARKING TRAFFIC, ALL THAT STUFF.
AND WHETHER THEY ACTUALLY PUT THE PICKLEBALL COURTS WHERE THEY WOULD, THEY, THAT'S ALL GONNA BE LIGHTING AND NOISE AND TRAFFIC AND EVERYTHING.
I JUST WANTED TO GET ALL THAT.
NO, YOU, YOU DEFINITELY SHOULD.
UM, ZONING HEARING BOARD, UH, THEY, THEY DID APPROVE A GARAGE LAST NIGHT ON A, A SITE, A GARAGE LARGER THAN IS ALLOWED.
AND THEN THEY TABLED OR THEY CLOSED A HEARING ON AN EXPO CENTER SIGN.
SO GENTLEMAN, YOU MUST KNOW THIS GUY GARAGE WAS 11.
SAME GUY ON KLE, NO KLEIN ROAD.
THE GUY ON, THE GUY ON KLEIN ROAD.
THE GUY ON LONGWOOD HAS STILL ANOTHER GARAGE TO STORE ANOTHER PIN.
BECAUSE THERE'S A GUY ON LONGWOOD THAT HAS THE SAME SHEPHERD.
HE'S GOT, YOU KNOW HIM ONLY BECAUSE, OH YEAH.
I THOUGHT I, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I JUST HOPE THE ZONING BOARD NOTES COME TO MY HOUSE.
NOBODY OR AN INSPECT MY HOUSE, HIS BADGE, THEN HE'LL COME OVER.
I HAVE TO HIRE ZACH TO REPRESENT ME.
ANYTHING ELSE? UH, I HAVE A QUESTION, JEFF.
UM, ON THESE MPC EXPIRATION DATES YEP.
UM, LIKE LEVER'S LANE SAYS THAT IT EXPIRES OCTOBER 31ST.
WHAT, WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS? WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS? I MEAN, DO THEY WELL, DO THEY HAVE TO APPLY FOR AN EXTENSION? THEY, THEY HAVE TO SEND ME A LETTER SAYING THAT THEY WANT AN EXTENSION THAT THEY'RE WILLING TO EXTEND ME TO THIS DATE.
THAT'S THE LAY'S LETTER I HAVE THAT I RECEIVED IN JULY.
WAS IT BECAUSE THEY WERE THROUGH AUGUST AND THEY SAID, WE'RE GONNA EXTEND YOU TO OCTOBER 31ST.
IF THEY BRING A PLAN FORWARD AND WE'RE REVIEWING THE PLAN AND THE TIMING WORKS, WE WOULD HAVE 'EM ON AN AGENDA IN OCTOBER.
I DON'T, OBVIOUSLY I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA GET ANYTHING.
'CAUSE IT'S SEPTEMBER NOW, SO WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA GET ANOTHER EXTENSION.
UM, WE WOULD, WE WOULD PUT THEM ON THE AGENDA.
YOU WOULD MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
THE BOARD WOULD MAKE A VOTE UP OR DOWN BY OCTOBER 31ST.
IF I DON'T RECEIVE AN EXTENSION BY I WOULD SAY THE MIDDLE OF THE MONTH.
AND, AND ALLISON SAYS, WELL, THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO GIVE ONE, THEY'LL GO ON AN AGENDA.
THE REVIEW THAT WILL STAND IS JEN'S CURRENT REVIEW, WHICH IS ABOUT 35 PAGES AND HAS SOME ISSUES.
AND THE BOARD WOULD, YOU WOULD MAKE A RECOMMENDATION BASED ON THAT REVIEW.
THE BOARD WOULD MAKE A, A VOTE BASED ON THAT REVIEW UP OR DOWN BY THE 31ST.
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AGENDA TO GET A VOTE.WELL WHAT, BUT I MEAN THAT WHAT JOE WAS MENTIONING YOU, HE'S MENTIONING THAT ONE.
BUT WHAT THAT THE SAME, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH YOUR KEYS? AND THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR NO, NO, NONE.
THEY I HAVE EXTENSIONS ON THOSE.
YOU HAVE EXTENSIONS ON, THEY HAVE EXTENSIONS ON THE
AND I'M TRYING TO SAY, WELL, THERE'S NOTHING ON THE AGENDA COMING UP.
SO WHAT HAPPENS, WE DON'T HAVE ANY NEW PLANS FIRST.
I MEAN, AND THIS, THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS WITH, WITH THEM AND I'M NOT BEING CRITICAL OR, OR ANYTHING WITH THEM.
THEY WILL SEND A DATE AND THEY'LL SAY, OH, WE'LL GET YOU SOMETHING BY A CERTAIN DATE, WHETHER THAT WAS LIKE AUGUST 15TH, THAT, THAT, THAT WE'LL GET YOU SOMETHING IN THREE WEEKS.
IT'S NOT MY JOB TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE SUBMITTING THINGS ON TIME.
SO THEY HAVEN'T SUBMITTED ANYTHING NEW.
I WILL PROBABLY BE HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH ALLISON, LIKE I DO JUST ABOUT EVERY WEEK ABOUT HER 17 DEVELOPMENTS IN TOWN.
AND WE'LL GO THROUGH IT AND SHE'LL SAY, WELL, I TALKED TO THEIR, I TALKED TO THEIR PERSON AND HE'S, YOU KNOW, HE THINKS HE MIGHT GET SOMETHING IN BY THIS DATE.
AND I'LL SAY, WELL, WE'RE GETTING CLOSE TO THE 31ST.
AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO PROBABLY GET ABOUT SOME OF THOSE OTHER ONES.
HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING FROM YERKES OR THEY'RE WORKING THROUGH IT? WE'VE HAD A MEETING, WE HAD A MEETING ABOUT A MONTH AGO WITH YYS AND THE HIGH, ABOUT THE WHOLE 29 CORRIDOR, ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON THERE AND HOW WE CAN COORDINATE THOSE DEVELOPMENTS THAT IF ONCE THEY ARE FINALLY APPROVED, IF THEY ARE FINALLY APPROVED, THE, THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS WOULD BE COORDINATED, THAT WE'RE NOT HAVING THIS DEVELOPER DO SOMETHING, THEN THE NEXT DEVELOPER COME IN AND RIP IT UP AND HAVE TO REDO SOMETHING.
SO THEY, YOUR KEY STATION THINKS THAT THEY WILL BE BACK IN BY THE NEXT FEW WEEKS, NEXT FEW MONTHS TO BE APPROVED BY THE END OF THE YEAR, BY THE BEGINNING OF NEXT YEAR.
THINKS THAT THEY WILL BE IN BY THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AND THEN HAVE THEIR PRELIMINARY PLAN APPROVED BY THE FIRST QUARTER OF NEXT YEAR.
AND THEN FINAL PLAN BY THE SECOND QUARTER OF NEXT YEAR.
I THINK THOSE ARE BOTH PRETTY AGGRESSIVE, AGGRESSIVE
BUT AGAIN, I COULD COME IN TOMORROW AND THERE COULD BE SEVEN PLANS THAT SITTING IN MY OFFICE.
I JUST WONDERED IF THEY WERE STILL OH, THEY'RE STILL MOVING.
AND HOW ABOUT THE CHURCH BEHIND THE CHURCH? I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING.
HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING? I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THAT.
I HAVE NOT, I, UH, WE'VE HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH THEIR ATTORNEY AROUND THE ZONING AMENDMENT AND I HAVE NOT HEARD THAT WAS IN FURTHER IN JUNE OR JULY, WASN'T IT? YEAH.
I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT ONE.
I MEAN, YEAH, DEVELOPERS ARE ETERNALLY OPTIMISTIC.
YOU DON'T GET AHEAD INTO THAT LINE OF WORK IF YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO BECOME THE, THE POSITIVE SIDE OF THINGS AND IGNORE THE NEGATIVE.
ALRIGHT, JEFF, YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL OR, UH, THE A WE'RE GONNA HAVE A MEETING ON THE 17TH.
UM, I, THAT AGENDA SORT TO BE DETERMINED AND IF YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING.
THE ONLY THING I WANT TO TELL THE BOARD HERE, IF THEY DON'T KNOW THAT WE ARE NOW A APPROVED, UH, BIRD TOWN.
BIRD TOWN, SOME OF US, SOME PEOPLE MIGHT SAY WE'RE BIRD BRAIN TOWN, BUT YES, WE ARE NOW OFFICIAL BIRD TOWN AND YOU'LL START SEEING SIGNS, I WOULD THINK.
SIGNS AND SOME OTHER INITIATIVES FOR PUTTING UP SOME BIRD HOUSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT WE, YEAH, BIRD HOUSES, THAT'S THE OTHER BIG THING.
JEN'S BEEN RAISING IT WITH APPLICANTS DURING MEETINGS TO MAKE SURE ANY APPROPRIATE, UH, EDUCATION.
SHE SAW THE GRAPE BLUE BIRD BASS EVERYWHERE.
JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, WE DID HAVE A MEETING WITH, UM, REPRESENTATIVES OF PARKHOUSE.
UM, THEY'VE BEEN FOCUSED ON STORMWATER TRAFFIC IN SCHOOLS, MOSTLY STORMWATER.
UM, I WOULD CHARACTERIZE AS SAYING THAT THEY'RE, UM, NOT AS FAR ALONG AS I FELT THEY WOULD'VE BEEN SINCE THEY'VE BEEN A YEAR SINCE THEY'VE GOTTEN THEIR FIRST APPROVALS.
BUT, AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT TO BE CRITICAL BY ANY STRETCH.
I'M CERTAINLY NOT SAYING IT TO ENCOURAGE 'EM TO MOVE ANY FASTER.
UM, BUT THEY, THEY'RE WORKING THROUGH SOME THINGS AND, UM, THEY SAY THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE SOMETHING SUBMITTED IN THREE TO FIVE MONTHS.
I SAID FOUR TO SIX AND THEY SAID, NO, NO, THREE TO FIVE WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT SCHOOL.
JUST, JUST WHAT THE IMPACTS OF THE SCHOOLS WOULD BE TO HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT MEANS AND HAVE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT NOW THAT THERE'S A NEW SUPERINTENDENT OR IN INTERIM SUPERINTENDENT TO SORT OF MAYBE SIT DOWN WITH HIM AND TALK ABOUT THAT AND SEE WHAT THE IMPACTS WOULD BE.
AND IT'S GOTTA BE, I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW THEY'RE GONNA FIX THAT.
I'M ABOUT SCHOOL, WHICH WE LIKE TO DO.
HAS THERE BEEN ANYTHING ON IMPROVEMENT OF THE ROAD COMING OUT ONTO SECOND AVENUE? THAT, THAT THEY, THEY, THEY'RE NOT VERY FAR ON THE TRAFFIC IMPROVEMENT SIDE OF IT.
I, I ASKED THEM THAT QUESTION BECAUSE WE HAD TALKED ABOUT ONCE, ABOUT HAVING A SORT OF A REALIGNMENT OF THAT INTERSECTION RIGHT AROUND THAT HOUSE THAT'S ON THE CORNER.
UM, THEY SAID THAT THEY HAVE NOT REALLY MOVED VERY FAR ON THAT DEVELOPMENT.
THEY ALSO OWE US SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT INTERSECTIONS THEY'RE GONNA BE IMPACTING.
'CAUSE IN ONE MEETING THEY SAID, LOOK, WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT THE IMPACTS WE'RE GONNA HAVE IN LEWIS AND VAUGHN.
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IS JUST A BRUTAL INTERSECTION.SO, UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T, UNLESS BRIAN HAS ONE WEEK, I'M, THEY SAID THEY ARE GONNA HAVE AN IMPACT ON THAT INTERSECTION.
WELL THEY SAID THEY, THEY WERE GONNA LOOK AT THE IMPACT THAT THEY WOULD HAVE ON THE INTERSECTION.
I MEAN, THEY'RE VERY GOOD AT WHAT THEY, HOW THEY SAY IT.
THEY'RE GONNA, THEY'RE GONNA MAKE IT, YOU KNOW, NOT GONNA COMMIT TO ANYTHING.
BUT THEY'RE GONNA, THEY'RE LOOKING AT IT.
I MEAN, THEY, THAT, WELL, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT YET BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR IN THE PROCESS.
I THOUGHT SHE, I THOUGHT SHE SAID, BUT NO THOUGHT SHE SAID THEY TOLD YOU THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT.
NO, THEY, THEY SAID AT THE MEETING THAT THEY KNEW THAT THEY SHOULD LOOK AT THAT INTERSECTION 'CAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY MIGHT HAVE AN IMPACT ON THAT.
SO BELIEVE, UH, ANYTHING ELSE? EVERYBODY GOOD? I'LL TAKE A MOTION.
PAUL, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE CLOSE THE MEETING A SECOND.