[00:00:01]
YOU READY? THANKS.[CALL TO ORDER]
OKAY.WE'RE GONNA CALL THE ORDER THE UPPER PROPERTY TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FOR WEDNESDAY, JULY 16TH.
AND, UM, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
[Additional Item]
UM, ORDER OF BUSINESS IS, UM, WE DON'T HAVE TO, UH, PROVE THE AGENDA, JEFF.SO, FIRST THING WE'RE GONNA DO IS PROVE THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING.
YOU SEE WHAT WE HAVE ON THERE? A COUPLE APPLICANTS ARE HERE TONIGHT.
WE HAVE A PRESENTATION FROM DAN SCHAFER.
UM, ANYHOW, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE, I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR THE SEAT.
SO OUR AGENDA IS OFFICIAL AND THERE IT IS.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE COPIES, I THINK THERE'S SUMMONED THE BACK.
UM, THE NEXT THING ON THE AGENDA IS A PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS. SO ANYTHING THAT'S NOT ON THIS AGENDA, WE JUST APPROVED, UH, ANY COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC? MAYBE I DIDN'T CATCH.
WHAT WAS THE AGENDA IN THE FIRST PLACE? WELL, IT'S, THERE'S COPIES BACK THERE IN THE BACK.
IT WOULD BE NICE TO BE TOLD THAT.
WELL, I JUST SAID IT, IT'S JUST SAID THERE'S COPIES IN THE BACK.
YEAH, IT'S UP THERE ON THE SCREEN ALSO.
WHAT'S THERE? IT'S ON THE SCREEN.
UM, SO AGAIN, ANY NON AGENDA ITEM POINTS THAT I, COMMENTS.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
THE GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS. UH, SO I NEED A MOTION FROM THE BOARD TO ADOPT THE ME, UH, MEETING MINUTES FROM JUNE 18TH.I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES FROM JUNE 18TH, 2025.
JOE'S MADE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE MEETING MINUTES FROM, UH, UH, JUNE 18TH.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND THAT.
UH, SO A NEXT, UH, DAN SCHAEFER'S GONNA MAKE A PRESENTATION ON FLOOD PREPAREDNESS FOR UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP.
DAN, JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND YOU'RE ON YOUR GO.
DO YOU NEED TO SWEAR ME IN, SIR? YEAH.
I'M THE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT COORDINATOR FOR UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE, THE COMMISSION AS WELL AS ANYONE IN ATTENDANCE TONIGHT ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THE TOWNSHIP IS DOING, UH, TO BE PREPARED FOR FLOODING.
UH, FLOODING IS OUR NUMBER ONE HAZARD THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IN THE TOWNSHIP AS FAR AS NATURAL DISASTERS GO.
AND WE JUST WANTED TO INFORM EVERYONE, KIND OF WHAT WE'RE DOING, UH, TO HELP MAKE THE TOWNSHIP SAFER.
SO WHEN WE LOOK AT UPPER PROVIDENCE, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF FLOODWAYS.
UH, THE SCHUYLKILL RIVER, OBVIOUSLY OUR, OUR BIGGEST, UH, WATERWAY.
ALSO THE PERKY AND CREEK, WHICH, UH, MEETS THE SCHUYLKILL RIVER DOWN IN THE OAK SECTION OF THE TOWNSHIP.
BUT ALSO THE, UH, THE SKIP ACT CREEK FLOWS INTO THE PERO CREEK, UM, ALONG OUR BORDER AS WELL.
WE HAVE THE MINGO CREEK, UH, IN THE ROYERSFORD AREA OF THE TOWNSHIP, AS WELL AS THE DONNY BROOK UP TOWARDS COLLEGEVILLE.
UH, CROSSMAN'S RUN AND TENDY RUN HAVE SOME SMALL, UH, FLOODWAYS.
AND THEN THERE ARE SOME UNNAMED CREEKS THAT ALSO FLOOD.
UM, IF YOU'VE BEEN CHECKING ANY KINDA WEATHER ALERTS TODAY, YOU'VE SEEN THAT THERE'S A, UH, A FLOOD WARNING IN EFFECT FOR OUR AREA DUE TO THE POTENTIAL FOR HEAVY RAIN.
THE CONCERN IS THAT THOSE SMALL UNNAMED CREEKS WILL BE, UH, WILL FLOOD OUT AND THEN FLOOD SOME ROADWAYS IF WE GET THE RAIN THAT THEY'RE PREDICTING.
SO, SOME OF OUR RECENT FLOODS, UH, I'M ASSUMING THAT MOST OF THE ROOM ARE AWARE OF THESE, BUT IN 2020, UH, HURRICANE ISAIAS, UH, MADE ITS WAY UP FROM THE GULF.
THE, UM, WHEN IT REACHED HERE, IT WAS A TROPICAL DEPRESSION.
UH, IT GAVE US A, UH, A RECORD FLOOD AFTER NINE INCHES OF RAIN, UH, CAME DOWN IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
SO THE PER CREEK, THE SCHUYLKILL RIVER BOTH HIT THEIR A HUNDRED YEAR, UH, FLOOD LEVELS AND EXCEEDED THOSE.
AND THEN A YEAR LATER, UM, HURRICANE IDA, WHICH WAS A TROPICAL STORM AT THE TIME THAT IT HIT PENNSYLVANIA, EXCEEDED EVEN THOSE, UH, THOSE NUMBERS.
SO THAT WAS THE, THOSE ARE THE CURRENT RECORD FOR THE PERMAN CREEK AND SCHUELL RIVER.
AND THAT RESULTED IN A FEDERAL DISASTER DECLARATION, UH, WHICH GAVE FEDERAL FUNDING FOR THE RESPONSE AND RECOVERY EFFORTS IN THE AFTERMATH OF THAT.
IN ADDITION, WE HAD A FEW MINOR FLOODING INCIDENTS IN 23 AND 24 THAT LED TO SOME ROADWAY CLOSURES IN SOME OF OUR, UH, LOW LYING AREAS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
AND WE HAVE CONTINUOUS, UH, FLOOD ALERTS, UH, THIS YEAR.
[00:05:01]
YEAR WE HAD A DROUGHT.SO FLOODING REALLY WASN'T A HUGE CONCERN.
UH, SINCE 1972, THERE HAVE BEEN 10 PREVIOUS FEDERAL DISASTER DECLARATIONS IN UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP, UH, FOR DIFFERENT HURRICANES AND STORMS THAT HAVE COME THROUGH.
SO THE TOWNSHIP, UM, WORKS HARD TO BE PREPARED FOR FLOODING.
SO THERE'S DIFFERENT, UH, AVENUES THAT WE, WE APPROACH TO BE PREPARED.
SO THE FIRST IS WE PARTNER WITH THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE.
WE'RE A WEATHER READY NATION AMBASSADOR, WHICH GIVES US ACCESS TO SOME BEHIND THE SCENES PRODUCTS FROM THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE.
IT ALLOWS US TO, UH, COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY WITH THEM DURING STORMS THROUGH A, UH, WEB PORTAL WHERE WE CAN HAVE, UH, IT'S BASICALLY LIKE A, A MESSAGE BOARD BETWEEN ALL THE EMERGENCY MANAGERS IN THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE.
WE HAVE, UH, TWO TOWNSHIP FLOOD GAUGES THAT THE TOWNSHIP OWNS AND MAINTAINS.
AND THOSE, UH, ARE ON OUR PORTAL ON OUR WEATHER HUB ON THE TOWNSHIP WEBSITE.
SO ONE IS ON THE SCHUYLKILL RIVER, ONE IS ON THE PERKY AND CREEK.
AND THOSE GIVE US REALTIME INFORMATION IN UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP AS TO WHERE OUR WATER LEVELS ARE.
UH, THAT'S A LITTLE SCREENSHOT ON THE BOTTOM THERE OF WHAT THE GAUGES LOOK LIKE ON THE WEBPAGE.
AND THEN ON THAT SAME PAGE, OUR IMPACT STATEMENTS.
SO WE KNOW WHEN THE FLOOD WATERS REACH A CERTAIN LEVEL, WHAT WHAT'S GONNA BE INUNDATED.
WE HAVE A TOWNSHIP WEATHER STATION THAT IS ON THE POLICE GARAGE.
THEY HAS A GOOD, UH, RAIN GAUGE ON IT.
AND A WIND METER GIVES US LOCAL INFORMATION SO WE CAN SEE HOW THE WEATHER IS IMPACTING US DIRECTLY.
ONE OF OUR BIG, UH, PROJECTS IS THE READY MONTCO ALERTING SYSTEM.
UH, SO WE'RE ABLE TO SEND EMERGENCY ALERTS OUT TO RESIDENTS AND SUBSCRIBERS.
SO IT'S A SUBSCRIPTION BASED, UH, PROGRAM.
IT'S FUNDED THROUGH, UM, IT'S ACTUALLY FUNDED THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, AND THAT MONEY MAKES ITS WAY DOWN TO THE MUNICIPALITY.
BUT IF YOU SUBSCRIBE FOR THAT, WE CAN SEND YOU A TEXT ALERT AND EMAIL.
WE COULD EVEN SEND YOU A FAX IF WE NEEDED TO, UH, TO GET SOME EMERGENCY ALERT INFORMATION OUT.
UM, FOR DIRE EMERGENCIES THAT AFFECT A BIGGER AREA OF MONTGOMERY COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY SENDS OUT THE MESSAGES AND THEY CAN, UM, HIT NON-SUBSCRIBERS AS WELL AS A COUNTY INSIDE, UH, THE TOWNSHIP.
SO I'M A FULL-TIME PAID EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT COORDINATOR, BUT WE ALSO HAVE 30 TOWNSHIP EMPLOYEES WHO ARE ASSIGNED EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT TASKS.
THEY'RE TRAINED, UH, TO FEMA STANDARDS.
A LOT OF THEM HAVE CERTIFICATIONS THROUGH THE PENNSYLVANIA EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY.
AND WE HAVE A STATE-OF-THE-ART EMERGENCY OPERATION CENTER ACROSS THE STREET IN THE FIRE STATION.
UH, WE DO CONTINUOUS EXERCISES, TRAINING, AND DRILLS OF OUR TEAM SO THAT WE'RE, UH, ABLE TO OPERATE AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL POSSIBLE.
AND THEN ALSO AT THE FIRE STATION.
WE HAVE A 24 HOUR CAREER FIRE DEPARTMENT.
EVERY ONE OF THE, UH, EMPLOYEES THAT WORKS IN THAT BUILDING IS TRAINED IN WATER RESCUE.
AND WE HAVE TWO, UH, RESCUE BOATS THAT ARE READY TO GO AT ALL TIMES.
AND WE HAVE MUTUAL AID AGREEMENTS WITH NEIGHBORING DEPARTMENTS AS WELL.
SO LAST YEAR WE STARTED THE UPT FLOOD READY CAMPAIGN.
HOPEFULLY SOME OF YOU HAVE SEEN THESE OUT AND ABOUT.
UH, WE PRINTED SOME LARGER POSTERS.
THEY'RE IN ALL OF THE TOWNSHIP BUILDINGS.
THERE'S ONE IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM AS AN EXAMPLE.
UH, WE ALSO WENT AROUND AND PUT SOME POSTERS IN COMMUNITY BULLETIN BOARDS, WHICH APPARENTLY IS, UH, KIND OF GOING BY THE WAYSIDE 'CAUSE THEY'RE REALLY HARD TO FIND COMMUNITY BULLETIN BOARDS ANYMORE.
AND THEN WE DID A, UM, A CAMPAIGN WHERE WE PUT DOOR HANGERS ON EVERY HOUSE IN A FLOOD ZONE IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT WE WERE AWARE OF.
SO LAST, UH, NOVEMBER, ANYONE WHO LIVED IN A FLOOD ZONE SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED ONE OF THESE.
WE PASSED OUT SEVERAL HUNDRED.
AND ON THE BACK ON THE FRONT IS A QR CODE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SIGN UP FOR ALERTS.
UM, WE SAW A BIG INCREASE IN SUBSCRIBERS AFTER THAT CAMPAIGN.
WE ALSO HAVE UPDATED OUR SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES.
THE TOWNSHIP WEBSITE HAS A LOT OF FLOOD PREPAREDNESS INFORMATION.
IT HAS A LINK TO OUR WEATHER HUB WITH, UH, ALL OF OUR INTERNAL WEATHER INFORMATION THAT THE PUBLIC CAN TAKE A LOOK AT.
AND WE HAVE A SIGNUP LIST FOR RESIDENTS WHO LIVE IN A FLOOD ZONE.
THEY CAN PUT THEIR NAME, ADDRESS, PHONE NUMBER, WAYS TO CONTACT THEM IF THEY HAVE PETS, IF THEY HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS.
SO IF SOMEONE LIVES IN AN AREA THAT'S PRONE TO FLOODING AND THEY DON'T HAVE A CAR, AND WE SAY, HEY, YOU NEED TO LEAVE THAT AREA, WE'RE GONNA CALL ALL THOSE NUMBERS FIRST.
AND IF THEY'VE SIGNED UP, WE KNOW, HEY, WE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO LEAVE UNLESS WE GO GET 'EM.
SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE, WE'RE KEEPING IN MIND.
SO WE'RE WORKING HARD ON OUR SIDE TO PREPARE THE EMERGENCY SERVICES OF THE TOWNSHIP, BUT WE ALSO ASK OUR RESIDENTS TO
[00:10:01]
BE PREPARED AS WELL.UH, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT WE ASK ALL OUR RESIDENTS TO SIGN UP FOR READY MONTCO ALERTS, CHECK THE BOX FOR UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP SO THAT WE CAN COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY TO YOU.
UH, PAST COUPLE DAYS, WE'VE SENT SEVERAL MESSAGES.
ONE WAS ABOUT THE STATEWIDE 9 1 1 OUTAGE.
ANOTHER WAS WHEN WE HAD, UH, SEVERE THUNDERSTORM FLASH FLOOD, AND TORNADO WARNING ALL AT THE SAME TIME LAST WEEK.
WE PUT OUT A MESSAGE FOR THAT.
UM, THAT'S OUR OUR BEST WAY TO COMMUNICATE.
WE ALSO WANT YOU TO LOOK AT YOUR HOUSE.
IF YOU LIVE IN A FLOOD ZONE, WE ASK RESIDENTS TO, UM, MAKE PREPARATIONS, WHETHER THAT'S MAKING SURE YOUR GUTTERS ARE CLEANED OUT, WHETHER IT'S, UM, THE WAY YOU LANDSCAPE YOUR YARD, RAISING YOUR UTILITIES, STRAPPING DOWN, UH, PROPANE TANKS.
THOSE ARE IMPORTANT THINGS THAT HELP US, UH, DOWN THE ROAD.
IF THERE IS A FLOOD, BUT ALSO HELP YOU, WE WANT YOU TO, UH, CONSIDER GETTING FLOOD INSURANCE OR RENTER'S INSURANCE AND DEVELOPING A FAMILY SAFETY PLAN.
IF IT'S THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND WE HAVE TO SEND OUT AN ALERT SAYING THE THE RIVER IS FLOODING, WE NEED YOU TO LEAVE.
UH, IF YOU HAVE SOMEWHERE TO GO, THAT'S BETTER THAN, UM, US HAVING TO GET YOU AND, AND SETTING UP A SHELTER.
WE'RE WILLING AND ABLE TO DO THAT.
WE'VE PARTNERED WITH THE RED CROSS TO HAVE A SHELTER INSIDE THE TOWNSHIP IF NEEDED.
BUT IT CAN ONLY HOLD SO MANY PEOPLE.
UH, WE ALSO ASK THAT RESIDENTS HAVE AN EMERGENCY KIT, HAVE SOME DRINKING WATER, SOME FOOD, A FLASHLIGHT.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT BEING TRAPPED ON THE SECOND FLOOR OF YOUR HOUSE, BECAUSE THE FIRST FLOOR IS FLOODED, THE POWER IS GONNA GO OUT.
YOU'RE GONNA WANT TO HAVE A LIGHT, YOU'RE GONNA WANT TO HAVE SOME WATER TO DRINK AND A SNACK.
SO KEEPING THOSE SUPPLIES IN A SAFE AREA IS IMPORTANT, ALONG WITH YOUR IMPORTANT DOCUMENTS AND YOUR MEDICATIONS, MEDICATIONS FOR YOU, YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS, YOUR PETS.
AND ALSO THINK ABOUT FOOD FOR YOUR PETS AND A WAY TO TRANSPORT THEM IF NECESSARY.
AND FINALLY, WE JUST ASK, IF WE PUT OUT AN EMERGENCY ALERT, PLEASE TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.
WE DON'T SEND THESE EMERGENCY ALERTS OUT LIGHTLY.
UH, IF WE SEND AN ALERT, WE ASK THAT YOU WOULD, UH, WOULD TAKE IT SERIOUSLY AND, AND FOLLOW OUR ADVICE.
SO WE HAVE A COUPLE UPCOMING PROJECTS.
UH, SO WE WERE AWARDED A GRANT FROM, UH, THE STATE TO PUT IN SOME FLOOD ROADWAY GATES SO THEY DON'T BLOCK THE FLOODWATERS, BUT HOPEFULLY THEY BLOCK CARS FROM GOING INTO THE FLOOD WATERS.
UH, SO THOSE WILL BE COMING IN ON OUR COAL ROAD AND CIDER MILL ROAD TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM CROSSING THE PERILLA CREEK AND ALSO AT UPPER INDIAN HEAD ROAD, KIND OF BY SCI, WHERE THEIR PARKING GARAGES.
THE, THE BOTTOM OF THAT ROAD FLOODS, UH, JUST ABOUT EVERY TIME IT RAINS WITH THAT ARE SOME FLOOD WARNING SIGNS, SOME FLOOD ZONE INDICATORS.
UH, WE'RE RESEARCHING AN IDEA TO PUT A BLUE REFLECTOR ON ALL THE STOP SIGNS IN, ON ROADS THAT NORMALLY FLOOD OR IN A FLOOD ZONE.
SO THE DRIVERS ARE AWARE THAT, HEY, THIS, THIS ROAD COULD FLOOD AND YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL OF THAT.
AND THEN WE HAVE ONGOING EXERCISES AND TRAINING WITH OUR EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT TEAM.
THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION.
IF ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTIONS, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE TIME FOR THAT NOW, BUT I'LL HANG OUT TILL THE END OF THE MEETING AND, UH, JUST ASK THAT YOU USE THE QR CODES EITHER UP HERE OR IN THE BACK TO, UH, SIGN UP FOR THOSE ALERTS AND CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE.
DAN, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.
UM, THIS COM, THIS COMMISSION, THIS, THIS BODY HERE IS, UH, CHARGE OF, UH, DEVELOPMENT.
EITHER CHANGING IT OR NEW DEVELOPMENT OR WHATEVER.
WE WORK CLOSELY WITH JEN HERE, WHO'S OUR, UH, WATER PERSON WHO TELLS US ABOUT PERVIEW SURFACES AND WHERE WATER'S GONNA GO AND ALL THAT STUFF.
DO YOU GUYS COMMUNICATE AT ALL? IS THERE ANY NEED FOR COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU WHEN WE'RE BUILDING A NEW PROJECT THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT MORE WATER BEING DRAINED FROM A, FROM A, SO I, I'VE SPOKEN A LOT WITH JEFF ABOUT, ABOUT FLOOD WATER AND, AND RAIN WATER MANAGEMENT.
OUR, OUR CONCERN IS WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE MEETING A STANDARD, WHICH IS RIGHT, YOU KNOW, FAR AND ABOVE WHERE THINGS USED TO BE.
SO THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF IMPROVEMENTS.
UM, WE'VE NOTICED THAT AREAS THAT HAVE, UH, STORM WATER BASINS AND AND ARE WORKING ARE HAVE CONTROL SYSTEMS FOR THAT DON'T FLOOD THE SAME WAY AREAS THAT JUST HAVE UNCONTROLLED RUNOFF DUE.
UM, SO WE, WE WORK WITH JEFF, JEFF ADVISES, UH, ALL OF US IN THE TOWNSHIP ON THOSE THINGS.
AND I HAVEN'T WORKED SPECIFICALLY WITH JEN.
WELL, JEN, WE, YOU KNOW, WE RELY HEAVILY ON JEN AND SHE'S GREAT AT WHAT SHE DOES.
AND SHE TELLS US AS WE'RE LOOKING AT A NEW DEVELOPMENT, I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE WAS A REASON YOU SHE SHOULD BE COMMUNICATING.
I'M JUST ASKING THE FIRE DEPARTMENT EMERGENCY
[00:15:01]
SERVICES.THEY'RE ALL, I MEAN, THROUGH STAFF MEETINGS, THROUGH, UM, OTHER JUST COMMUNICATION.
I KEEP THEM IN THE LOOP ON WHERE CERTAIN DEVELOPMENT IS HAPPENING.
UM, NOT TO, AND NOT BEING CRITICAL, BUT DAN DOESN'T HAVE THE ENGINEERING BACKGROUND THAT, THAT HE WOULD NEED TO REALLY, WELL, IT'S NOT REALLY AN ENGINEERING, YOU KNOW, JENNA APPROVES IT LIKE ALL OF US.
I JUST DIDN'T, JUST SO HE'S AWARE THAT, HEY, THERE'S A NEW DEVELOPMENT GOING IN HERE.
OH, WE HAD DISCUSSIONS AND, AND HE'S, WE'VE SPOKEN.
GIVE HIM A HARD TIME ABOUT A COUPLE PROJECTS.
'CAUSE JEFF THING GIVES US A HARD TIME.
SO THAT'S ALL, ALL GOES DOWN, ALL FLOWS DOWNHILL THERE.
I HAVE ONE OF THESE IN THE BACK FOR ANYONE WHO'S HERE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SIGN UP AND A POSTER AS WELL.
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON JULY 16, 2025]
RIGHT ALONG.I GUESS OUR FIRST APPLICANT WE'RE GONNA HEAR TONIGHT IS THE ONE 40 WHITAKER REDEVELOPMENT.
AND MAY I ASK, WHO'S YOUR REPRESENT? OH, IT'S OUR OLD FRIEND.
UM, I'M HERE THIS EVENING ON BEHALF OF HIGH TOP REAL ESTATE AND DEVELOPMENT.
UM, WITH ME THIS EVENING ON BEHALF OF HIGH TOP IS DAVE LANCE GRONER.
AND HERB SCHULTZ IS THE ARCHITECT THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PROJECT.
UH, THE, WE'RE ACTUALLY HERE FOR BOTH MATTERS ON BEHALF OF HIGH TOP, BUT THE FIRST ONE TONIGHT IS ONE 40 WHITAKER AVENUE.
JUST FOR, WE GOT A COUPLE NEW PEOPLE YOU COULD YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF? YES.
I'M FROM THE LAW FIRM OF RILEY REPER HOLLAND AND CAL GRECO.
UM, AND WE'RE HERE TONIGHT, UM, TO TALK ABOUT A SITE THAT'S LOCATED AT ONE 40 WHITAKER AVENUE.
UM, THE SITE IS CURRENTLY IMPROVED WITH, UM, SOMETHING, A BUILDING THAT'S COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE OLD MONTCLAIR SCHOOL.
UM, IT WAS APPROVED FOR USE AS AN OFFICE BACK IN 1985.
SO IT'S BEEN QUITE A NUMBER OF YEARS.
UM, LAST FALL, UH, WE HAD SUBMITTED A TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN APPLICATION FOR THE SITE, WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY 6.78 ACRES.
UM, AT THAT TIME, UH, WE HAD SUBMITTED WHAT, UH, WOULD'VE BEEN A, A FULL REDEVELOPMENT OF THE SITE.
THE SITE IS ZONE'S PBO, UM, PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS OFFICE, BUT IT DOES PERMIT TOWNHOUSES IN THE DISTRICT.
AND WE HAD SUBMITTED A TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN SHOWING 60 TOWNHOUSE UNITS.
UM, SUBSEQUENT TO THAT FILING, UH, WE WERE ALERTED BY, BY JEFF TO THE FACT THAT THE PROPERTY HAS A LEASE ON PART OF IT, UM, WHICH, UM, IS LEASED TO THE TOWNSHIP, UM, FOR TWO DIFFERENT PURPOSES.
AND SO, I MEAN, RELATED, BUT THERE ARE TWO PARTS TO THE LEASE.
ONE OF THEM RELATES TO OPEN SPACE ITSELF.
THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY 3.65 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE THAT ARE LEASED TO THE TOWNSHIP.
AND THAT LEASE CAN BE TERMINATED BY THE CURRENT PROPERTY OWNER IN ORDER TO EXPAND, UM, THE USE ON THE SITE.
THERE'S A SECOND PART OF THAT LEASE THAT'S SPECIFIC TO A PLAY AREA, WHICH WAS TO BE 11,050 SQUARE FEET UNDER THE ORIGINAL APPROVALS FOR THE SITE.
UM, THE PROPERTY OWNER WAS OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE A SWING SET AND ESSENTIALLY ONE LITTLE PIECE OF PLAY EQUIPMENT.
AND YOU'LL SEE MORE PICTURES TONIGHT, BUT ESSENTIALLY IT'S A VERY SMALL PIECE OF PLAY EQUIPMENT THAT'S OUT THERE TODAY, AND THAT'S THE WAY IT'S BEEN.
UM, SO WE'RE HERE TONIGHT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT A PROPOSED REDEVELOPMENT OF THE SITE.
YOU'LL HEAR TONIGHT, UM, THAT WE ARE PROPOSING TO KEEP THE 3.65 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE.
IT WOULD BE RECONFIGURED IN SOME SENSE ON THE SITE, UM, ALTHOUGH PREDOMINANTLY STILL WITHIN THE AREA THAT IS OPEN TODAY.
UM, AND WE WOULD ALSO BE PROPOSING AN INCREASE TO THE ACTUAL ACTIVE PLAY AREA ON THE SITE, UM, WITH AMENITIES AND OTHER FEATURES THAT WE THINK WOULD SERVE THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.
UM, WE DID APPEAR BEFORE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO DISCUSS THIS VERY HIGH LEVEL ONCE THE LEASE ISSUE AROSE, BUT WE HAVE NOT BEEN BEFORE ANYONE TO SPECIFICALLY REVIEW THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN.
SO I DO HAVE HERB SCHULTZ TO WALK YOU THROUGH A PRESENTATION AND GIVE YOU SPECIFICS ABOUT WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING.
UM, AND THEN WE DO HAVE A COUPLE, WE DO HAVE A, UM, TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN REVIEW LETTER THAT WAS ISSUED A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.
BUT I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO GIVE YOU SORT OF THE, THE FULL OVERVIEW OF WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING HERE.
AND THEN WE'RE HAPPY TO WALK THROUGH AND ANSWER QUESTIONS.
ALLISON, REAL QUICKLY, WAS, WAS THERE, AM I CONFUSING? WAS THERE A ZONING ISSUE FOR THIS TOO, JUDGE? NO, NO.
YES, FOR ONCE THERE'S NO REQUEST FOR ANY ISSUE.
WELL, I I'M CONFUSED TO ANOTHER ONE THEN I GUESS.
[00:20:01]
STOLE, I HAVE A POINT.WELL, THEY FIGURE OUT, YOU MENTIONED, YOU MENTIONED LANDLORD LEASE.
THAT WAS AN IMPRESSION THAT SOMEHOW THE TOWNSHIP HAD TO APPROVE SOME KIND OF A LEASE EXCEPTION, OR I'M NOT SURE HOW TO WELL, WELL, THERE ARE TWO PARTS TO THAT.
SO THE LANDLORD IS THE CURRENT PROPERTY OWNER, AND THE PORTION PERTAINING TO THE OPEN SPACE IS REVOCABLE BY THE LANDLORD VERSUS THE PORTION, THE, THE, THE, THE TOWNSHIP IS THE TENANT FOR BOTH PARTS OF THE LEASE.
THERE IS THE PLAY AREA, WHICH IS THE 11,050 SQUARE FEET THAT IS TERMINAL BY THE TOWNSHIP.
THE OVERALL OPEN SPACE IS TERMINAL BY THE LANDLORD.
HOWEVER, IT DOES TALK ABOUT IT BEING TERMINAL FOR A PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS OFFICE, USE EXPANSION ON THE SITE.
IF THEY NEED THAT 6.3 0.65 ACRES, THEY COULD JUST TERMINATE IT ALL TOGETHER, EXPAND ACROSS THE ENTIRE SITE.
SO WE ARE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING AT THE MOMENT IS NOT PROFESSIONAL OFFICE USE, ALTHOUGH IT IS PERMITTED IN THE DISTRICT.
SO WE ARE PROPOSING TO RETAIN 3.65 ACRES, BUT OUR CONVERSATION WITH THE TOWNSHIP TO DATE HAS BEEN TO SAY, HEY, WE'D LIKE TO RECONFIGURE THIS SLIGHTLY SO THAT IT MAKES SENSE FOR THE LAYOUT WE'RE PROPOSING AND CREATES A LARGER USABLE PLAY AREA.
THE OTHER THING THAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS THAT THIS WOULD BE PERMANENTLY DEED RESTRICTED AS OPEN SPACE DEDICATED TO THE TOWNSHIP.
WHATEVER THE TOWNSHIP WOULD WANT, IT WOULD NO LONGER BE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE TERMINATED IN THE FUTURE.
COULD YOU GO BACK REAL QUICK TO PREVIOUS SLIDE? OKAY.
JUST TO GIVE PEOPLE A, A GENERAL OVERVIEW.
UH, THIS IS THE SITE IN QUESTION HERE.
UM, WHITAKER COMES IN AND EGYPT ROAD IS HERE.
UM, AS ALLISON HAD SAID, THIS IS THE EXISTING CONDITION NOW.
SO BASICALLY THIS TRIANGULAR PORTION IS THE, UH, IS THE OPEN SPACE THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING.
AND THEN THIS IS THE, UH, THE OLD MONTCLAIR SCHOOL PARKING AND AREA.
UM, AND OVERLAY HERE KIND OF SHOWS YOU THAT, GENERALLY SPEAKING, WE'RE BASICALLY KEEPING THE DEVELOPMENT, UM, FOR THE MOST PART IN THE SAME LOCATION AS THE CURRENT CURRENTLY, UH, WHERE THE BUILDING AND PAVEMENT IS.
AND THEN THE OPEN SPACES ALL OVER IN THIS AREA HERE.
UH, SO BASICALLY, UM, WAKER ROAD COMES ALONG HERE.
UH, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS TO RELOCATE, UH, ONE OF THE EXISTING CURB CUTS OVER A LITTLE BIT.
WE HAVE A SINGLE LOOP ROAD THAT COMES IN AND A SECONDARY, UH, CURB CUT HERE.
WE HAVE, UH, 51, UH, INDIVIDUAL TOWNHOUSES, UM, DRIVEWAYS, SIDEWALKS, UH, EACH, UH, EACH HOUSE HAS, UH, TWO, TWO CAR PARKING.
UM, WE HAVE VISITOR PARKING ALL ALONG THE SOUTH SIDE HERE.
UM, ALLISON HAD MENTIONED THE PLAYGROUND THAT IS THERE NOW.
UH, THIS LITTLE RED SQUARE HERE THAT IS THE EXISTING PLAYGROUND, UH, AS IT STANDS TODAY.
AND YOU'LL SEE SOME IMAGES OF THAT IN A IN A MINUTE.
THE, THE NEW PLAYGROUND IS BASICALLY THIS SECTION HERE.
IT'S, IT'S MORE, UH, UH, CONSISTENT WITH THE, WITH THE 11,000 SQUARE FOOT LEASE.
UH, WE'RE PROPOSING, YOU KNOW, SOME TREE PLANTINGS, MOST LIKELY MORE BUFFER PLANTING ALONG THIS SIDE HERE.
UH, AND WE HAVE A SERIES OF WALKWAYS AND, UH, TRAILS, UH, THROUGHOUT THE SITE CONNECTING TO THE CONDOMINIUM BUILDINGS UP HERE, UH, AND ALL THE WAY DOWN TO, UM, RIGHT.
HERE'S THE MONTCLAIR SCHOOL OFF TO THE RIGHT.
UM, BASICALLY THE BIG OPEN SPACE THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING.
AND THIS IS THE, UH, THIS IS THE, UH, EXISTING PLAYGROUND TAKEN MAYBE SIX MONTHS AGO.
SO HERE'S A SIDE BY SIDE PHOTO OF KIND OF WHAT THAT VIEW WOULD LOOK LIKE.
UM, WE'RE OBVIOUSLY PROPOSING TO HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, KEEP EXISTING TREES INTACT, UH, YOU KNOW, PLANT NEW TREES, PLANT BUFFER PLANTINGS ALL ALONG HERE, AND PROVIDE A, A, A SIDEWALK ON OUR PROPERTY, UH, THAT CONNECTS NORTH AND SOUTH AND THEN ALSO, UH, INTO THE SITE NEXT.
THIS IS A VIEW LOOKING, LOOKING UP TOWARDS EGYPT ROAD.
UM, AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, YOU WOULD SEE THE, UH, THE PLAYGROUND KIND OF IN THIS AREA HERE, AND THAT JUST ALL GRASS.
SO WE'RE OBVIOUSLY MAKING THIS AS PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY AS POSSIBLE.
UH, WE'RE PROVIDING SOME OF THESE PARKING SPACES FOR PUBLIC USE.
THIS, THE, UH, THE PLAYGROUND THAT'S HERE IS INTENDED FOR PUBLIC USE.
THAT THAT IS THE GOAL, AS IS ALL THE WALKAWAYS AND OPEN SPACE, UH, THAT WE'RE PROPOSING HERE NEXT.
UM, ANYBODY THAT'S FAMILIAR WITH THE SITE KNOWS THAT THE GRADE SLOPES UP
[00:25:01]
FROM, UH, FROM SOUTH TO NORTH.UH, SO WE'RE BASICALLY THE PROPOSAL ANYWAY IS TO CARVE OUT, UH, THE PLAYGROUND SPACE, UH, TO GIVE, UH, YOU KNOW, SOME ACOUSTIC BREAK FROM THE ADJACENT NEIGHBORS TO GIVE A SENSE OF PRIVACY TO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE AND JUST, UM, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT FEEL A LITTLE SAFER.
BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, WE'RE REALLY PROPOSING TO HAVE A LOT OF ACTIVATED SPACES, A LOT OF PROGRAMMED PIECES.
UM, WE HAVE SOME, UH, SOME OUTDOOR SEATING, SOME AREAS FOR PICNICKING.
AND THEN OBVIOUSLY ALL THE PLAYGROUND STUFF.
HERE'S ANOTHER VIEW JUST TO KIND OF, UH, REITERATE THE FACT THAT WE'RE KIND OF DIGGING THIS INTO THE SIDE OF THE HILL SO THAT WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO, UH, TO KIND OF ENCAPSULATE THIS SPACE, UM, BOTH VISUALLY AND ACOUSTICALLY FROM ANY OF THE NEIGHBORING AREAS.
UH, AND THEN WALKWAYS, WHICH YOU'LL SEE CONTINUE ON SITE.
THIS IS A VIEW, OBVIOUSLY, UM, SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITH REGARDS TO WHAT TYPE OF PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT WE END UP USING.
BUT THIS JUST KIND OF GIVE AN IDEA OF HOW ACTIVATED WE KIND OF THINK THIS, THIS SPACE WILL FEEL NEXT.
AND THEN ANOTHER VIEW JUST KIND OF SHOWING, UM, YOU KNOW, OUR GOAL REALLY IS TO MAKE THIS AS PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY AS POSSIBLE, BOTH FOR BIKES AND FOR PEOPLE WALKING.
UH, WE'D, WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH NEIGHBORS ABOUT POTENTIALLY HAVING, UM, YOU KNOW, AREAS FOR, FOR DOGS TO RUN AROUND.
AND SO WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE VERY, VERY WILLING TO, TO WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY, BUT WE FELT LIKE THIS WAS A PRETTY NICE AMENITY, UM, TO PROVIDE.
AND THEN HERE'S, UH, BASICALLY THE ENTRANCE IN.
SO AS YOU CAN SEE, THE, THE ADJACENT PARKING SPACES ARE ALL, UH, SHIELDED WITH, UH, VERY BULK PLANTINGS.
UM, IT'S A PRETTY SIMPLE, UH, PROJECT, YOU KNOW, ONE WAY IN AND THEN A ROUND OUT.
UM, AND AGAIN, WE HAVE VISITOR PARKING FOR THE, THE PARK AND THE PUBLIC SPACE VISITOR PARKING FOR THE REST OF THE RESIDENTIAL SPACES.
AND THEN EVERYBODY HAS, YOU KNOW, GARAGE PARKING AND THE DRIVEWAY, UH, SPOT AS WELL.
IS THIS ENTRANCE ON WHITAKER? YES.
HOLD YOUR QUESTIONS TILL HE FINISH THIS.
SO, UM, EXPLAIN TO ME OR ALLISON, THE NEW PARK, THAT NEW PARK AREA YOU'RE PROPOSING, YOU'RE DONATING THAT OR WHATEVER THE TERMINATION TERMS WOULD BE TO THE STATUTE.
THIS AREA, IT'S THE OPEN SPACE YOU'RE DONATING NOT THE, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET CLEAR.
IS IT BOTH? YEAH, I MEAN, ULTIMATELY IT WOULD BE OPEN TO THE TOWNSHIP AND IT WOULD BE UP TO THE TOWNSHIP WHETHER THEY ACTUALLY WANT TO TAKE LITERAL DEDICATION OF IT OR IF IT WOULD BE STILL OWNED BY THE HOA AND THEN OPEN FOR PUBLIC ACCESS.
BUT EITHER WAY, THE INTENT IS THAT IT WOULD BE PUBLIC, BOTH THE, BOTH THE PLAY AMENITY AND THE OPEN SPACE AREA.
AND, AND I CAN JUST JUMP IN QUICKLY ON THIS.
UM, IN TERMS OF THE EXISTING LEASE AGREEMENT, UM, AS ALLISON SAID, THERE IS, IT IS A 99 YEAR LEASE.
THE LARGEST PORTION OF IT THAT THE TOWNSHIP IS LEASING IS TERMINABLE BY THE LANDLORD, BY THE PROPERTY OWNER.
UM, THERE ARE WAYS THAT WE CAN ADDRESS IT.
IF THE BOARD DECIDES THAT THEY WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH AN AMENDMENT TO THAT LEASE OR THEY WANT TO, THEY WANT TO DO THAT, UH, WE COULD AMEND THE LEASE AND JUST CHANGE THE AREAS THAT IT APPLIES TO.
WE CAN DO, WE CAN TERMINATE THE LEASE AND, AND ENTER INTO SOME SORT OF A RESTRICTED COVENANT, OR THEY CAN DEDICATE THE PROPERTY TO THE TOWNSHIP AND WE CAN ACCEPT IT.
THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS.
UM, I THINK AT THIS POINT THAT NITTY GRITTY DETAIL ISN'T REALLY WHAT WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT AT THAT STAGE YET OF WHERE WE'D BE DECIDING HOW WE WANTED TO DEAL WITH THAT.
BUT I THINK RIGHT NOW IT'S JUST REALLY MORE FOR THE DEVELOPER TO GET FEEDBACK ON AND FOR THE BOARD TO GET FEEDBACK FROM YOU GUYS ON WHAT YOU THINK OF THE PLAN AND, AND WHETHER YOU RECOMMENDATIONS ARE THAT.
WELL, I AGREE WITH THAT, ZACH, EXCEPT FOR I THINK THAT'S, FOR ME, THAT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT, WHAT THE PLAN IS FOR THAT IN THE FUTURE.
I MEAN, IT'S VERY NICE AND OBVIOUSLY IT'S A NICER THAN WHAT, WHAT'S THERE NOW.
I MEAN, THAT LOOKED LIKE THAT WAS OVERWHELMED WITH THE KIDS RUNNING OVER THERE.
SO, UM, UH, ME TO, YOU KNOW, JUST TO UNDERSTAND THE VIABILITY OF THIS THING MOVING FORWARD, I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE PLAN WAS.
SO YOU'RE SAYING AT THIS POINT WE COULD, THEY, IF TOWNSHIP WANTS TO TAKE IT, YOU'RE WILLING TO I, I HAVE HAD OFFLINE CONVERSATIONS WITH SOME OF THE SUPERVISORS, NOT ALL OF THEM, AND VERY INFORMALLY, THEY UNDER, IT'S BEEN MY RECOMMENDATION TO THEM THAT IF THIS IS TO MOVE FORWARD AND NOT PUTTING THE JUDGMENT ON THAT AT ALL, IF THIS IS TO MOVE FORWARD, THAT IT'S PROBABLY MORE BENEFICIAL FOR THE TOWNSHIP TO OWN IT FROM A LONG-TERM STANDPOINT.
BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT AN HOA TO SUDDENLY SAY, WELL NO, WE CAN'T HAVE PEOPLE HERE AT THIS TIME, AND WE'RE LIMITING THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE ACCESS TO THIS AND HAVE TO FIGHT IT OUT FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT OF THE DE RESTRICTION SAYS THIS, AND THE RESTRICTION SAYS THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT JEN AND I
[00:30:01]
HAVE BOTH COMMENTED ON IS THE PARKING SITUATION WHILE IT'S SHOWN, IS ACCESSING THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT.WE LIKE THE IDEA OF IT BEING SEPARATE SO THAT THERE ISN'T A CONCERN IN THE FUTURE IF THE TOWNSHIP IS TO TAKE THE PARK AND HAVE OWNERSHIP OF THE PARK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT PARKING AND WE'RE NOT FIGHT AGAIN, FIGHTING IT OUT WITH, WITH, WITH A NEIGHBOR OR AN HR, YOU KNOW, OR, OR LIKE WE EVEN, EVEN TODAY TO HAVE ACCESS TO THAT PARK.
BUT THERE, THERE CAN BE SOME QUESTIONS TO IT.
I THINK THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT IN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW VIABLE THIS STATE YEAH.
AND THE PUBLIC AND THE PARKS DIRECTOR IS HERE AND SHE'S, I DON'T THINK SHE'S MADE HER, SHE'S WEIGHED IN YET, BUT SHE'S CERTAINLY, UM, INTERESTED IN THE SITUATION AND AWARE SOON, OFTEN.
I MEAN, WE'VE GOT, I BELIEVE WE HAVE 10, 13, AND 10 SPACES.
WE HAD CALLED THESE PUBLIC SPACES OVER HERE SINCE THEY'RE ADJACENT TO THIS, UH, YOU KNOW, TO THE ENTRANCE INTO THE PARKING 10 SPACES THAT COULD BE PUBLIC, BUT ALSO COULD BE PART OF RESIDENTIAL PARKING LOT, NOTHING.
NOTHING'S RESTRICTED TRUE TO THE PUBLIC OR RESTRICTED TO THE RESIDENCE.
I, I THINK THE PREFERENCE IS THAT THE TOWNSHIP, AT LEAST THE INITIAL PREFERENCE THAT WAS EXPRESSED, I BELIEVE, IS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE SOME DESIGNATED SPECIFIC PARKING.
SO THEY'RE NOT INTERACTING WITH VISITORS THAT ARE COMING TO THE HOA.
SO, AND WHEN AND WHEN HERB IS MENTIONING THAT IT'S FUNGIBLE, ALL OF THAT PARKING IS IN EXCESS OF OUR REQUIRED PARKING UNDER THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO IT IS FLEXIBLE IN THAT SENSE.
QUESTION TO THE BOARD, JERRY, KEVIN, I, I HAVE A FEW, BUT JUST SO THAT I UNDERSTAND, AND I KNOW WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE.
MANY OF THEM ARE MY NEIGHBORS.
NICE TO MEET YOU MONTCLAIR FOLKS.
UM, WHAT IS IN FRONT OF US VERSUS WHAT'S IN FRONT OF THE SUPERVISORS? SO, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, OUR, YOU HAVE SUBMITTED A TENTATIVE PLAN AND OUR ROLE IS TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION OR NOT TO THE SUPERVISORS AS TO WHETHER IT COMPLIES WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT REG, UH, REGULATIONS AS THEY'RE ALREADY WRITTEN.
AND WE HAVE YES, NO ROLE IN THE, IN THE LEASE COMPONENT.
SO I, I I, I THINK THAT AT THIS STAGE, WHAT THE DEVELOPER HAS DONE IS THEY COME IN AND THEY PRESENTED THIS PLAN AND THEY SAID, HEY, THIS IS A PLAN THAT WE LIKE AND WE THINK THIS IS GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY, BUT IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH THIS PLAN, THERE'S GONNA NEED TO BE AN AMENDMENT TO THE LEASE.
WE'RE GONNA NEED TO DO SOMETHING TO CHANGE THAT SITUATION BECAUSE EXACTLY AS THEY PLANNED IT RIGHT HERE IS NOT FEASIBLE UNDER THE EXISTING TERMS OF THE LEASE.
SO I THINK WHAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IS LOOKING FOR THIS EVENING IS FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S IMPRESSION, WHAT THE RECOMMENDATION IS ON THE PLAN, AND WHETHER THERE ARE THINGS THAT COULD BE CHANGED ABOUT THE PLAN THAT MIGHT, MIGHT MAKE IT BETTER, MIGHT MAKE IT MORE BENEFICIAL FOR THE TOWNSHIP, FOR THE NEIGHBORS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
I THINK THAT'S KIND OF YOUR ROLE THIS EVENING.
UM, YOU KNOW, GETTING INTO THE TECHNICAL, DOES THIS MEET THE, THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE TENTATIVE SKETCH? I DON'T THINK WE'RE REALLY AT THAT STAGE YET.
I THINK THIS IS MORE DIRECTED TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WHAT YOUR RECOMMENDATION IS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN TERMS OF THIS PLAN MORE OVERALL IN A GLOBAL SENSE.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT, ALLISON? SURE.
AND I WILL SAY THAT IN TERMS OF TENANT SKETCH PLAN REQUIREMENTS, WE DID LABEL AND ADD CERTAIN THINGS TO THIS PLAN PER THE REVIEW LETTERS THAT WE RECEIVED.
SO FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, WE BELIEVE WE'RE ABLE TO COMPLY.
UM, THERE WERE SEVERAL ZONING COMMENTS IN THE LETTER THAT, UM, WERE DEFERRED TO JEFF AND I KNOW HE INCLUDED A MEMO, UM, IN YOUR PACKET, UM, OPINING ON SOME OF THOSE THINGS.
SO WE DO BELIEVE THAT WE CAN COMPLY WITH ALL OF THE THINGS THAT ARE ACTUALLY APPLICABLE HERE.
THERE'S A LITTLE, THERE WAS A LITTLE CONFUSION IN THE ZONING COMMENTS OVER THE APPLICABLE AREA AND OAK REQUIREMENTS.
UM, AND HE HAS CONFIRMED THAT THE R THREE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE CROSS-REFERENCED DO APPLY.
THAT'S WHAT WAS APPLIED AT THE LEWIS POINT PROJECT THAT WAS APPROVED RECENTLY.
SO A LOT OF THOSE ZONING COMMENTS KIND OF GO AWAY BECAUSE THEY WERE REFERENCING OTHER REQUIREMENTS THAT WILL NOT APPLY HERE.
BUT WE DO BELIEVE FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE THAT WE CAN COMPLY TECHNICALLY AS WELL.
AND SINCE YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT ASKING, AS I THINK SOMEBODY ESTABLISHED EARLIER, YOU'RE NOT ASKING FOR A ZONING AMENDMENT HERE, RIGHT? CORRECT.
AND I DON'T THINK I REALIZE THE ASPECT ABOUT THE, THE LEASE AGREEMENT, BUT YOU ARE SAYING, AND YOU'RE CONCURRING THAT REALLY THE TOWNSHIP IS, YOU, YOU, YOUR, YOUR EIGHT YEAR OWNER HAS THE ABILITY TO TERMINATE
[00:35:01]
THE LEASE.MOST OF THE LEASE AREA, NOT JUST BASICALLY EVERYTHING BUT THE PLAYGROUND.
YEAH, EVERY, AND TO CLARIFY, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE ACTUAL ACTIVE PLAYGROUND IS ONLY 320 SQUARE FEET, THEY COULD TERMINATE EVERYTHING EXCEPT FOR THE 11,050 SQUARE FEET, WHICH WE WOULD ACTUALLY BE MAKING INTO A REAL PLAYGROUND INSTEAD OF WHAT'S THERE TODAY.
SO ESSENTIALLY THE TOWNSHIP WOULD END UP WITH WHERE THAT PLAY AREA IS TODAY.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT LEASE PLAN, IT'S IN THAT BOTTOM CORNER WHERE THE 320 SQUARE FEET IS.
SO THAT WHEN ZACH IS TALKING ABOUT THAT WE WANTED, WE WOULD WANT TO MODIFY CERTAIN THINGS, WE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT PLAY AREA, WE'RE GONNA HOLD THAT PLAY AREA, BUT WE WANNA MOVE IT THAT REQUIRES AN AMENDMENT TO THE LEASE OR, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING MORE FORMAL BECAUSE WE THINK BASED ON OUR PLANNING THAT THAT'S A BETTER LOCATION FOR IT AND WE'D LIKE IT TO TURN IT INTO A REAL AMENITY THAT WOULD BENEFIT THE COMMUNITY.
BUT YOU COULD WITHOUT ANY ACTION OF THE BOARD, UH, DEVELOP TOWNHOUSES ON THE WHOLE SITE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE PLAYGROUND AREA.
SO I THINK THERE, THAT'S A TWOFOLD QUESTION.
SO CURRENTLY THE CURRENT PROPERTY OWNER OR WHOEVER WOULD BE THE LANDLORD.
OUR, MY CLIENT IS THE ECHO OWNER.
I SHOULD HAVE CLARIFIED THAT AT THE BEGINNING.
UM, COULD TERMINATE THE LEASE TODAY AND EXPAND THE EXISTING PROFESSIONAL OFFICE ACROSS THE WHOLE SITE EXCEPT FOR THAT 11,050 SQUARE FEET.
YOU KNOW, IF THEY WENT THROUGH THAT AND DID THAT, AND THEN LATER IN THE FUTURE SOMEBODY CAME BACK, THEY COULD FURTHER REDEVELOP IT WITH TOWNHOUSES, WE WOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO FILE AN ALTERNATIVE PLAN THAT STILL PROPOSES TOWNHOUSES ON THE SITE, BUT LEAVES EVERYTHING EXACTLY AS IS IN TERMS OF WHERE IT IS TODAY, THE 320 SQUARE FEET OF ACTIVE PLAY AREA STAYS THERE, YOU KNOW, AND WE LEAVE IT.
BUT IN THAT CASE, IF THAT WAS THE CASE, WE WOULD STILL, YOU STILL COULD COME FORWARD THE PLANNING COMMISSION, RIGHT? EXACTLY.
IT WOULD BE A WHATEVER BUILD, EITHER EITHER OF THOSE PLANS WOULD BE A BUY RIGHT PLAN.
AND YOU WOULD BE REVIEWING IT FROM A TECHNICAL PERSPECTIVE.
AND I MEAN, ESSENTIALLY THE WAY THAT THE LEASE BREAKS UP THE PROPERTY, YOU HAVE THE BASICALLY QUARTER OF AN ACRE THAT IS THE, THEY CALL THE PREMISES A AND THE LEASE, THAT'S THE PLAY AREA, THAT'S THE PLAYGROUND AREA THAT'S LOCATED NEAR, NEAR WHITAKER STREET.
THEN YOU HAVE PREMISES B, WHICH IS THE OPEN SPACE, THAT'S 3.65 ACRES.
SO ESSENTIALLY THAT LEAVES A REMAINDER OF ABOUT 2.88 ACRES THAT COULD ESSENTIALLY BE DEVELOPED FOR ANY PURPOSE PERMITTED UNDER THE ZONING PERMIT ZONING.
SO WHETHER THAT'S OFFICE USE, WHETHER THAT'S TOWNHOUSES, THAT ANYTHING THAT'S PERMITTED IN THAT, UM, THE PROFESSIONAL, UH, PBO ZONING DISTRICT WOULD BE PERMISSIBLE ON THAT 2.88 AREA.
AND THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE PROPOSING THE 51 TOWNHOUSES? IN PART? YES.
YEAH, I I THINK THAT THE PLAN GOES SLIGHTLY BEYOND THAT.
THAT'S WHY THEY NEED THE AMENDMENT.
BUT CONCEPT THAT'S, I THINK THE OFFER IS ESSENTIALLY IN EXCHANGE FOR DOING THAT AMENDMENT.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE WILLING TO MAKE SOME INVESTMENTS IN THE PLAY AREA ENLARGE THAT MAKE IT A PERMANENT OPEN SPACE, THAT THERE ISN'T A POSSIBILITY OF REMOVING THAT, UH, OR TERMINATING THAT ASPECT OF THE LEASE.
SO THERE, THERE ARE DEFINITE BENEFITS FOR THE TOWNSHIP, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF GETTING THAT OPEN SPACE AS A PERMANENT, POTENTIALLY PERMANENT DESIGNATED OPEN SPACE IN A LARGER, MORE WELL-DEFINED, WELL-INVESTED PLAY AREA.
HOW ABOUT, WELL, THE PLAY AREA.
WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THAT PROPERTY? THAT IS NOT GONNA BE, THEY ARE YOU RECOMMEND YOU, YOU GONNA LEASE OR DONATE THAT TO THE TOWN ALSO? YEAH.
SO THAT, SO THAT WOULD BE NOT JUST THE PLAY AREA.
THAT'S, AND I WAS, THAT'S, I WAS TRYING TO CLARIFY THAT EARLIER.
IF THE TOWNSHIP WOULD LIKE TO ACCEPT DEDICATION OF ALL THAT OPEN SPACE AS WELL.
WE WOULD OFFER IT FOR DEDICATION.
IF THE, IF THE TOWNSHIP SAID WE ONLY WANNA TAKE THE PLAYER PLAY AREA FOR WHATEVER REASON, AND WE JUST WANT THE REST OF IT TO BE DEED RESTRICTED, OPEN SPACE, THEN IT WOULD BE DEED RESTRICTED OPEN SPACE.
BUT THE IDEA WOULD BE THAT IT BECOMES PERMANENT OPEN SPACE.
YOU GET INVOLVED WHOEVER OWNS IT.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YEAH.
TO, THAT'S TALKING ABOUT THE, THE PLAY AREA.
AND I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2.3 ACRES OR WHATEVER YOU SAID.
THAT WOULD BE PART OF THAT TOO.
THAT'S A QUESTION FOR THEM TO ANSWER.
BEFORE WHAT PUBLIC? ONE SECOND, I'M GONNA FINISH THE BOARD, THEN I'LL, I'LL HELP THE PUBLIC COME UP AND ANSWER OR ASK QUESTIONS AND DO ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.
JEN, ANYTHING YOU WANT TO MAKE COMMENTS ON? UM, LIKE ALLISON SAID, IT'S A TENTATIVE SKETCH, SO I BELIEVE THE PLAN AS SHOWN IS SATISFACTORY OF THAT MOVING FORWARD.
I JUST SUGGEST CONSIDERATION FOR THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT.
IF THE 3.65 ACRES IS IN FACT DEDICATED TO THE TOWNSHIP AND THEY TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THAT, THEN THE STORMWATER FOR THE TOWNHOUSE, IT SHOULD BE FULLY CONTAINED ON THE TOWNHOUSE LOT.
THAT, THAT'S NOT BEEN DEVELOPED YET.
WE'RE NOT THERE YET, BUT NO, YOU'RE JUST KIND OF JUST TELLING THEM NOT NOT THERE YET.
AND, AND AGAIN, IT'S REALLY UNKNOWN, YOU KNOW, IS THE TOWNSHIP TAKING OWNERSHIP?
[00:40:01]
IS IT, SO IT'S REALLY JUST A CONSIDERATION MOVING FORWARD, HOWEVER EVERYBODY DECIDES TO PROCEED.IF THAT IS THE FINAL PREDISPOSITION OF EVERYONE, THEN KEEP THE STORMWATER SEPARATE.
AND, AND I, I MEAN THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
TO THE EXTENT THAT SOMEONE SAYS WE WANT TO TAKE, YOU KNOW, THE TOWNSHIP SAYS WE WANT TO TAKE PART OF IT, BUT WE DON'T WANNA TAKE THE WHOLE THING.
IT COULD BE IN TWO DIFFERENT OWNERSHIPS AND STILL BE DEED RESTRICTED AS A SPACE.
UM, AND, AND, AND I ALSO THINK, JEN, BRIAN, I THINK, I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF TRAFFIC ISSUES, SIDEWALK ISSUES.
WELL, I WANTED TO ASK BRIAN NEXT.
I'D LIKE TO GET BRIAN'S COMMENTS.
SO, UH, I I, I MEAN THE SAME BOAT WITH, WITH JEN AS A TENTATIVE SKETCH, WE'RE FINE MOVING FORWARD.
THERE'S, THERE'S DETAILS TO BE WORKED OUT AS WE GO FORWARD TO PRELIMINARY AND FINAL.
BUT IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU SEE TODAY AS WE DECIDE IF WE'RE GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, THAT YOU WOULD, THAT WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT, THAT YOU FEEL MIGHT BE A CONCERN LIKE JEN JUST MENTIONED ABOUT THE BASIN BEING ON THEIR PROPERTIES THERE? SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD KNOW? ANY IN YOUR, IN YOUR OVERVIEW? NO, IN, IN THE OVERVIEW THAT, I MEAN, UH, OTHER THAN, UH, AS HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED, TRYING TO, UH, POSSIBLY DO A BETTER JOB OF SEGREGATING THE PARKING FOR THE, THE PUBLIC AREA, UH, SO THAT IT'S NOT COMMINGLED WITH THE PARKING FOR THE, THE TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT.
BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I DON'T SEE ANYTHING OF RED FLAG CONCERNS.
AND I, I WOULD REALLY DEFER TO BRIAN ON ALL OF THIS.
AND, AND YOU HAVE AN EMAIL FROM, I, I LOST MY COPY, BUT YOU HAVE AN EMAIL THAT I WAS SENT LAST NIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU FROM A, FROM A RESIDENT HERE.
AND, UM, I'LL FIND MY COPY OF IT CAN PUT HIS NAME ON THE RECORD IN A MINUTE.
HE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF HIS CONCERNS WAS THAT, THAT THE INTERSECTION OF WHITAKER AND EGYPT AND, AND, UH, BRIDGE AND NORWOOD AND, AND HOW THOSE OPERATED AND WHAT THIS IMPACT WOULD BE.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK WE HAVE TO GET INTO ONCE WE SORT OF GET PAST THIS FIRST HURDLE.
IT'S, IT'S A STUDY THAT HAS TO HAPPEN, BUT IT'S, IT IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SUCH, THIS IS SUCH A TECHNICAL ISSUE IN THE VERY BEGINNING THAT WE HAVE TO SORT OF GO THROUGH THAT FIRST.
THE, THE OTHER THING THAT I'LL, I'LL SAY TO THAT ISSUE IS THAT THIS IS AN EXIST, THERE IS AN EXISTING OFFICE BUILDING THERE.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE ARE TAKING UNDEVELOPED PROPERTY AND PUTTING SOMETHING NEW THERE.
SO IN THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS WORLD, IT'S, IT'S WHAT IS THE IMPACT, BUT IT'S ALSO WHAT'S THE IMPACT OF THE TOWN HOME HOMES VERSUS THE EXISTING OFFICE USE THAT'S ALREADY THERE.
WHETHER THERE'S, YOU KNOW, ACTIVE OFFICE SPACE THAT BEING USED THERE OR NOT.
UH, BUT THERE CERTAINLY COULD BE.
SO IT, IT IS MORE THAT COMPARISON.
SO IT'S, IT IS A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION THAN, THAN A AN EMPTY FIELD THAT'S BEING PROPOSED FOR DEVELOPMENT.
I THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT.
YOU KNOW, UH, BRIAN, THE OTHER THING THAT OCCURS TO ME IS, UM, THAT IF THIS THING WERE TO GO PBO, IF IT WAS ALL OFFICE, THAT MIGHT GENERATE MORE TRAFFIC ISSUES THAN A, THAN A TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT, CORRECT? UH, IT COULD BE MORE.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PBO, IF FROM AN OFFICE STANDPOINT, YOU SEE CONCENTRATED FLOW IN, IN THE MORNING AND OUT IN THE AFTERNOON OR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, IT'S FLIPPED AND GENERALLY NOT AS CONCENTRATED BECAUSE THE, THE FOLKS THAT ARE WORK ARE LIVING THERE AND ARE NEEDING TO GO TO WORK ARE IN A VARIETY OF LOCATIONS.
SO THEY'RE NOT ALL LEAVING AT THE SAME TIME IN THE MORNING.
THEY'RE NOT ALL GETTING HOME AT THE SAME TIME, WHICH IS A DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTIC THAN YOU SEE FROM AN OFFICE.
BILL, I HAVE SOME MORE QUESTIONS.
I WORRY THAT THE MEETING MINUTES IS GONNA END UP WITH ANOTHER KEVIN BUSH ASK QUESTIONS, BUT, UH, SORRY.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, JEN, I KNOW THAT YOU HAD A WHOLE BUNCH OF COMMENTS IN, IN, UM, THE BACKGROUND MATERIAL.
I DON'T, THE THE, THAT'S NOT PART OF THE HANDOUTS, RIGHT? IT'S JUST THE AGENDA.
IT WAS PART OF THE, IT WAS PART OF THE INFORMATION PACKET.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PUBLIC? YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
SO I JUST, YOU KNOW, UM, THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS IN HERE FOR EXAMPLE, THAT I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT, LIKE THE PARKING RIGHT ON WHITAKER.
UM, RIGHT NOW THERE ARE, I DUNNO, FIVE OR SIX WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER SPECIMEN TREES.
I DON'T KNOW IF OUR ORDINANCE ARTICULATES EXACTLY WHAT A SPECIMEN TREE IS.
THERE'S ALSO A LITTLE BIT OF A SLOPE.
AND I'M CURIOUS IF BY YOUR READ, THAT WOULD COMPLY WITH THE DEVELOPMENT ORGANIZATIONS AS, AS FAR AS BUFFER, WELL, WHERE THE PARKING IS RIGHT NOW, WHERE THERE'S SOME VERY LARGE, VERY OLD LOOKING TREES.
TREES ALONG THE FRONTAGE, CORRECT.
YEAH, THE TOWNSHIP ORDINANCE HAS A SPECIMEN TREE SECTION
[00:45:01]
IN THERE.UM, IT'S BASED ON SIZE OF THE EXISTING TREE.
SO DEPENDING ON WHAT THOSE ARE, THEY COULD BE EVALUATED.
UM, WE DO HAVE ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT IS CONSIDERING THOSE AS WELL.
UM, BUT IT'S A REPLACEMENT ITEM SO IT DOESN'T PRECLUDE DOES THE DEVELOPMENT FROM HAPPENING.
AND THEN IN ADDITION, THE WAY YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A HYDROLOGIST, RIGHT? AND I KNOW YOU DON'T HAVE ALL THE DATA YET, BUT IT, YOU KNOW, THE SCHOOL IS KIND OF UP ON A HILL A LITTLE BIT AND THEN THERE'S THIS LARGE LINE OF TREES AND THERE'S A SMALL, I DON'T KNOW, BIOSWALE I GUESS YOU COULD SAY.
AND YOU KNOW, I, WE'VE HAD ONE RESIDENT THAT'S BEEN COMING QUITE A BIT THAT I KNOW LIVES RIGHT NEXT TO THE SCHOOLS THAT'S CONCERNED ABOUT STORM WATER FLOWING FROM THE DEVELOPMENT TO HER PROPERTY.
UH, AND I KNOW THAT THE, THE SLIDO IDO SUBDIVISION OF LAND USE DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE OR UH, ORDINANCE TALKS GENERALLY ABOUT ANY NEW DEVELOPMENT NOT RESULTING IN ANY ADDITIONAL STORM WATER RUNOFF AND WHAT'S ALREADY PROVIDED THERE.
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU COULD PUT PARKING WHERE IT IS CURRENTLY AND NOT CAUSE A LOT OF WRONG WATER RIGOR.
SO THERE'S A COUPLE WAYS THAT A DEVELOPMENT CAN BE DEVELOPED REDUNDANCY THERE.
UM, SO BECAUSE THIS SITE ALREADY HAS DEVELOPMENT ON IT, PRESUMABLY THERE WAS STORM STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FEATURES PROVIDED FOR IT IN THE PAST.
IF THEY WERE GOING TO REDEVELOP AND MAINTAIN THE EXISTING STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, THEN THEY WOULD ONLY HAVE TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL CONTROLS FOR THE ADDITIONAL COVERAGE.
BUT I BELIEVE IN THIS CASE, BECAUSE OF THE LOCATION OF WHAT THEY'RE PROVIDING, IT WILL GO BACK TO A PRE-DEVELOPMENT ANALYSIS AS IF THERE IS NO DEVELOPMENT THERE IN THE FUTURE.
SO THAT WOULD BE THE COMPARISON THAT THEY'LL BE USING FOR THEIR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT DESIGN MOVING FORWARD.
AND YES, BY THE TOWNSHIP ORDINANCE, UM, THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION THAT IS REQUIRED, UM, FOR THE BASIN ROUTING AND PROVIDING THE WATER MANAGEMENT.
NOW, AS FAR AS LOCATION ON THE SITE, THEY CAN, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS IT WOULD BE TOUGH FOR THEM TO CAPTURE ALL THE RUNOFF FROM THAT PORT BASED ON GRADES.
SO IN THAT, UM, THEIR ENGINEER CAN LOOK AT ALTERNATE AREAS ON THE SITE AND AS LONG AS, UM, THEY COMPENSATE FOR THAT, THEY CAN COMPENSATE FOR IT WITH RUNOFF FROM, IT CAN BE OFFSITE RUNOFF, IT CAN BE ANY RUNOFF THAT GETS THERE.
AND THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE THE DRAINAGE AREAS STIPULATING, YOU KNOW, THE AMOUNT OF RUNOFF THAT'S BEING CAPTURED BY A BMP AND THEN THAT BASIN CAN OVERCOMPENSATE.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU HAD SOMETHING REALLY BIG AND IT'S GOING TO THE SCHULL RIVER, I COULD PUT EXTRAS FROM OUR MANAGEMENT ON MY SITE THAT MIGHT COMPENSATE FOR YEAR DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS QUOTE UNQUOTE DOWNHILL.
AND THE REASON I ASK THAT IS 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, THE, THE TENTATIVE, PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAN IS SOMETHING THAT I STILL ONLY VAGUELY UNDERSTAND.
AND LOOKING AT IT INTUITIVELY, I HAVE NO IDEA BECAUSE THAT PARKING IS, IS PROBABLY THE LOWEST POINT OF THE PARCEL RIGHT NOW.
SO I HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOU WOULD COMPLY WITH THAT.
BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO IN THE PRELIMINARY AND FINAL THAT YOU'D HAVE MORE DATA TO LOOK AT TO SEE IF THEY ARE CORRECT.
THEY WOULD ADDRESS THAT IN PRELIMINARY.
AND THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR UNDERGROUND DETENTION AS WELL.
I MEAN, IF THAT IS THE ONLY SPOT.
AND THAT'S FOR THEIR ENGINEER TO DETERMINE WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO PROPOSE.
AND THEN THE OTHER ONE IS, IS FOR BRIAN, SAME THING WITH THE, WITH THE PARKING THERE.
UM, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT I SAW SOMETHING IN THE ORDINANCE THAT TALKS ABOUT PARKING, UH, PARKING THAT IS PERPENDICULAR TO THE CART WAY AND IT'S NOT TOTALLY CLEAR WHERE THE RIGHT OF WAY STARTS AND STOPS ON THIS SKETCH PLAN.
BUT DID YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS WITH THAT BASED OFF YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE ORDINANCE? NO.
SO THE, UH, IT IS A QUESTION OF PARALLEL.
PARALLEL VERSUS PERPENDICULAR PARKING, UH, BE INTERNAL TO THE SITE, PARK, PARK PARTICULAR PARKING ALONG A DRIVE AISLE IS, IS IS TYPICAL.
UM, SO I, I DON'T SEE THAT AS A, A CONCERN.
IT'S MORE A SEPARATION ISSUE TO BE ABLE TO DESIGNATE PUBLIC VERSUS, UH, HOA PARKING.
YEAH, I THINK I JUST, I HAVE PULLED IT UP HERE.
IT LOOKS LIKE THERE, THERE NEEDS TO BE SEVEN FEET.
I UNDERSTAND IT, RIGHT? YOU'RE THE, I'M NOT THE EXPERT, BUT THERE'S, THERE NEEDS TO BE SEVEN FEET BETWEEN THE CART WAY AND ANY PERPENDICULAR PARKING AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S RIGHT ON THE RIGHT OF WAY.
SO IT IS NOT THE, IT IS NOT FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY, IT'S FROM THE CART WAY.
THAT'S THE ACTUAL ROAD, RIGHT.
SO THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE, THE ROAD CURB FRONTAGE AND THE RIGHT OF WAY LINE PROVIDES YOU THAT, THAT SEVEN FOOT.
AND SO THAT'S WHERE THE SIDEWALK AND THE GRASSY STRIP THAT WAS IN THE RENDERINGS.
[00:50:01]
BOB, BOBAND I THINK YOU ANSWERED SOME OF THAT.
PRELIMINARILY JOE? NO, I'M FINE.
SO NOW I'LL ASK FOR THE PUBLIC.
YOU GUYS WANT TO SIT DOWN? I'LL ASK THE PUBLIC COME UP.
BEFORE WE, UM, THE EMAIL WAS DATED, UH, YESTERDAY.
10 55 FROM A MR. CHRISTOPHER RIZZA, R-I-Z-Z-A.
AND I'LL JUST HAVE THIS PUT WITH THE MINUTES.
UH, LIKE IT WOULD BE A PUBLIC COMMENT AND I HOPE HE WOULD STEP IF HE'S HERE.
I HOPE HE STEPS UP AND MAKES HIS COMMENTS.
MY ASSUMPTION IS I GOT THE EMAILS, PROBABLY NOT, BUT IF HE'S HERE, WELL, CITY WOULD BE I READ IT SAYS HE WOULD.
YOU HAVE TO COME UP TO THE FRONT TO THE SPEAKER HERE.
STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD AND UH, MAKE YOUR COMMENT.
ALRIGHT, DAN HARKINS, I LIVE AT THE MEADOWS 40 YEARS.
I'VE BEEN UP AND DOWN WHITAKER ALL THE TIME.
YOU GO TO AND FROM WORK, IT'S THIS BIG.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A TWO CAR TRAFFIC WITH 51 NEW HOMES AND YOU PRETEND THAT TWO CAR PARKING IN THE GARAGE IS GONNA WORK.
THE CHILDREN ARE GONNA HAVE CARS.
THE RELATIVES WHO LIVE THERE ARE GOING HAVE CARS.
AND GETTING OUT FROM WHITAKER THESE DAYS, YOU NEED A TRAFFIC LIGHT OR CROSSING GUARD.
OKAY? I HAVE TO USE IT EVERY DAY.
MY FIRST QUESTION WOULD BE, WHY DID YOU EVEN THINK OF PUTTING SOMETHING LIKE THIS, A DEVELOPMENT IN THAT SUCH A SMALL AREA? THEN YOU HAVE THE HOMES THAT ARE ALREADY THERE.
THERE ARE ESTABLISHED HOMES WITH THEIR LOVELY GARDENS AND THEIR TREES AND THEIR, IT'S THERE.
AND NOW YOU'RE GONNA PUT THIS BEHIND MY, I'M AT THE MEADOW CONDOMINIUM, SO THAT'S GONNA BE BEHIND US.
AND YOU CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT A PLAYGROUND.
WELL, GOD BLESS AMERICA, WE DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE PLAYGROUND.
WHAT YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT IS THE CONCEPT OF THE LIFE AROUND THIS ESTABLISHMENT.
YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE HERE WHO LIVE IN THAT AREA AND MORE SHOULD BE HERE.
BUT WE REALLY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS MEETING.
A LOVELY LADY LEFT IT ON OUR MAILBOXES.
WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WHEN IT COMES TO THE TRAFFIC AND THE, AND THE, THAT'S THE MAIN THING THERE.
AND THE, TO
I JUST THINK SOMETHING'S VERY WRONG HERE.
THE WORRIED, HOW ABOUT THE, THE TAXES WILL BE GOING UP FOR US.
THE TRAFFIC, ALL THE PRETEND LET'S PRETEND ONLY TWO CARS PER HOUSE, WHICH IS, IS UNBELIEVABLY.
AND YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? WHO IS THE ONE, WHAT, WHO GAVE HIM AN IDEA TO DO THAT? AND THEN TO TEAR DOWN A REALLY BEAUTIFUL BUILDING, THE MONTCLAIR SCHOOL.
WHY? SO OTHER HUMANS CAN MOVE IN ON TOP OF EACH OTHER FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.
WE GOT THAT ALL THE WAY UP EGYPT ROAD BEFORE YOU GET TO GEN'S AUDUBON.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO GET UP THERE NOWADAYS.
ANYBODY ELSE? HE ASKED PERMISSION.
I'M AN AGITATED CUSTOMER RIGHT NOW.
I LIVE AT TWO 14 NORWOOD STREET.
PEOPLE ON EITHER SIDE OF ME OR ON THAT SIDE.
I STILL AM CONFUSED IF 25, 35 YEARS AGO THEY HAD A LEASE THAT THEY SAID WE'RE GONNA HONOR FOR A HUNDRED YEARS.
AND WE'RE SEEING LIKE, OH, THEY'RE GONNA LEASE THE THING.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED THAT THAT'S, WE CAN CHANGE AT ANY TIME.
MAYBE LATER WE'LL DEVELOP ON THAT NICE LAND.
MAYBE WE'LL JUST PACK EVERYBODY IN THREE STORY BUILDINGS IN MY BACKYARD, WHICH MIGHT BE 10 FEET AWAY AND BIG OLD SHADOWS.
I MEAN, I KNOW PEOPLE NEED A PLACE TO LIVE, BUT I'VE WATCHED PHOENIXVILLE, MONTCLAIR OAKS, AND I'VE BEEN IN MONTCLAIR FOR 22 YEARS.
THE AMOUNT OF HOUSES I'VE GONE IN THERE IS ASTRONOMICAL.
AND I'M JUST LOOKING, I MEAN, I, I KNOW HOW MUCH THE TRAFFIC HAS INCREASED ON EGYPT ROAD.
'CAUSE I HAD TO TAKE THAT TO GO TO WORK AND I TAKE THE OTHER WAY TO GO TO MY OTHER JOB AND JUST TRYING TO MAKE A LEFT ONTO 29 OVER AT WHITAKER.
BUT THAT, AND I PRAY THAT I'M NOT GETTING AN ACCIDENT.
I'M TRYING, IT'S TIMING IT, RIGHT? BUT THERE'S THINGS COMING DOWN THE HILL AREN'T GONNA KILL ME.
AND ON THE BUSINESS WE COULD STOP AND GO AND STOP AND GO.
YOU KNOW, I LOVE, I LOVE PHOENIXVILLE, BUT IT'S LIKE, THERE IS JUST, THEY'RE JUST BUILDING, BUILDING, BUILDING.
AND I, I HATE TO SAY IT, AND I HAVEN'T BEEN TO TOO MANY, TOO MANY LIKE MEETINGS LIKE THIS, BUT IT FEELS LIKE THE DECISION'S BEEN MADE.
I KNOW YOU HAVE TO PRESENT, YOU'RE PLAN TO THE BOARD.
[00:55:01]
I CAN'T HELP BUT FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL WRITTEN UP.THERE'S THAT HOUSE, IT'S GONNA BE BLACK, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE RIGHT THERE.
AND, UH, I CAN'T, I'M NOT CRAZY ABOUT IT.
I MEAN, THEY SPREAD IT OUT A LITTLE.
AND I GET, I GET THAT THE OWNER PROBABLY DOESN'T WANNA BE TIED TO SOMETHING FOR A HUNDRED YEARS WITH AN OFFICE BUILDING THAT YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO FILL IN.
AND HE HAS TO PAY FOR ALL THE UPKEEP AND ALL THE MOWING THE LAWN AND EVERYTHING.
BUT THERE'S GOTTA BE A BETTER WAY.
NOT THAT MANY, NOT THAT BUILDING.
ANDREW REED, 2 39 GRACE STREET IN 2 33 NORWOOD.
I OWN THE PROPERTY AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL WHERE ALL THE STORMWATER RUNOFF ENDS UP IF IT'S NOT PROPERLY MANAGED BY A PROVINCE.
AND WE SEE THIS EVEN MORE NOW, YOU KNOW, IN THE CREEK THAT RUNS BETWEEN THE MEADOWS AND THE BASE OF NORWOOD AND THE BASE OF WHATEVER THE STREET IS.
AND THE MEADOWS FLOODING NOW IN, YOU KNOW, LARGE RAIN EVENTS AND WE SEE A LOT MORE WATER COMING DOWN WHITAKER STREET TOO.
THAT INEVITABLY ENDS UP IN MY DRIVEWAY AND RUNNING DOWN MY DRIVEWAY AS A RESULT OF, YOU KNOW, JUST THE NORMAL STORMS THAT WE'RE HAVING NOW.
SO I DO ECHO SOME ADMIRATION HERE FOR THE POTENTIAL OF KEEPING THE OPEN SPACE, THE 3.65 ACRES FOR THIS PROPERTY AS OPEN SPACE, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT IMPERVIOUS SURFACE.
AND THAT WILL DO SOME GOOD FOR ABSORBING, UH, STORMWATER RUNOFF.
BUT I AM VERY CURIOUS TO SEE HOW THE STORMWATER RUNOFF IS BEING MANAGED FOR THIS PROJECT AS PROPOSED.
I, I HEARD JEN MAKE SOME VERY GOOD COMMENTS ON THAT.
AND YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT'S IN THE, YOU KNOW, IT'S IN THE BULLSEYE AND IT'S IN THE RADAR, BUT I WANT TO REALLY EMPHASIZE TO THE COMMISSION THAT THIS IS SOMETHING WE DON'T WANT TO LOSE SIGHT OF.
YOU KNOW, THE CREEK THAT RUNS DOWN FROM MY PROPERTY INTO THE CANAL AND INTO THE SCHULL FLOODS NOW, AND IT DIDN'T USED TO FLOOD EVEN TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO.
AND WE SEE A LOT MORE RUNOFF, YOU KNOW, COMING OFF OF, YOU KNOW, VARIOUS PRODUCTS.
AND SO I'D BE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS PROPERTY BEING DEVELOPED WITHOUT ADEQUATE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AND STORMWATER RUNOFF.
YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S SOME GOOD COMMENTS IN TERMS OF, HEY, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU OFFSET THINGS FROM THE PARKING SPACES WITH, YOU KNOW, STORMWATER CONTROL ELSEWHERE? AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, BUT I THINK THAT SHOULD BE LIKE A TOP OF MIND KIND OF ISSUE FOR APPROVING THIS PROJECT, IS UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE CHANGES TO IT ARE GOING TO DO TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AROUND WHITAKER AND NORWOOD AND THE BASE OF, UH, THE MEADOWS.
AND SO I THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING MY VIEWPOINT, AND I'LL BE KEEPING WATCH ON THIS AS I THINK A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE ARE, BECAUSE WE'RE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT FLOODING, WE'RE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT RUNOFF, AND WE'RE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT HOW TO MAKE IT WORK.
AND I'M EVEN OPEN TO TALKING TO THE DEVELOPER ON THIS TO SEE IF THERE'S WAYS THAT WE CAN MAKE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT WORK BETTER BETWEEN THEIR PROPERTY AND MY PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE IT MORE EFFECTIVE.
ANYBODY ELSE? GOOD EVENING EVERYONE.
I'VE LIVED THERE FOR 13 YEARS.
UH, WE'VE USED THAT SITE QUITE A BIT.
UH, MY GRANDCHILDREN HAVE ACTUALLY PLAYED ON THAT.
YOU CAN CALL IT A PLAYGROUND AND SWING SET AND, UH, WHATEVER IT WAS.
UH, AND I DO APPRECIATE IN THIS PROPOSAL THAT THAT OPEN SPACE IS GONNA BE KEPT NOT ONLY FOR THE OPEN SPACE, BUT BECAUSE OF THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT.
AND I DON'T THINK I CAN ADDRESS STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, UH, ANY BETTER THAN MY NEIGHBOR BACK THERE.
HOWEVER, THE ONE THING THAT REALLY CONCERNS ME IS TRAFFIC.
NOW, AS I SAID, I'VE LIVED THERE FOR 13 YEARS.
THE EXISTING BUILDING WAS MORE ACTIVE.
IT WAS FULL ESSENTIALLY WHEN WE MOVED THERE.
UH, AND IT HAD PREDICTABLE TRAFFIC PATTERNS IN THE MORNING.
WE HAD PEOPLE COMING IN, WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A BUBBLE AT LUNCHTIME.
AND THEN WE HAVE PEOPLE LEAVING SINCE COVID THE BUILDING IS, IS REALLY UNDERUTILIZED.
I SEE MAYBE FOUR OR FIVE CARS, THE PARK THERE.
SO OUR TRAFFIC ON WHITAKER RELATED TO THAT HAS DECREASED.
HOWEVER, WITH ALL THE SURROUNDING DEVELOPMENT, ESPECIALLY IN PHOENIXVILLE, THE TRAFFIC ON WHITAKER NOT RELATED TO THAT SITE HAS INCREASED.
AND I AM FEAR WITH 51 ADDITIONAL
[01:00:01]
BUILDINGS, WITH AT LEAST TWO CARS EACH TRAVELING IN AND OUT AT DIFFERENT TIMES A DAY, YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY PUTTING THE PEOPLE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IN A BOX BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET ONTO 29 FROM GRAY STREET.YOU CAN'T GET ONTO 29 FROM NORWOOD STREET, AND YOU CAN'T GET OUT ONTO EGYPT ROAD FROM WHI AVENUE.
WE HAVE A LOT OF TRAFFIC FROM THE MEADOWS, UM, BECAUSE I ASSUME THEY DON'T WANNA GO THROUGH THE 13 TO 14 SPEED BUMPS THEY HAVE IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT.
UM, SO MY OVERWHELMING CONCERN WITH THIS, OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT IT JUST DOES NOT FIT THE CHARACTER OF THESE EXISTING NEIGHBORHOOD, AND I REALIZE THAT IT IS ZONED FOR WHAT'S ZONED FOR IT, AND IT COULD BE WORSE, BUT MY CONCERN IS THE TRAFFIC.
AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ADDING ADDITIONAL SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO COME IN AND NOW VISIT THE AREA BECAUSE THERE'S GONNA BE AN IMPROVED PLAYGROUND THERE.
SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT TRAFFIC MITIGATION, WHETHER TRAFFIC CALMING DEVICES SUCH AS SPEED BUMPS, WHETHER THERE NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING CONSTRUCTED IN THE MEDIAN OF WHITTICK AVENUE TO OFFSET THAT.
BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY RIGHT NOW, IF YOU'RE COMING NORTH ON 29, YOU MAKE A RIGHT TURN UNDER GRAY STREET AND GRAY STREET AND WHI AVENUE INTERSECT AT A 90 DEGREE DEGREE ANGLE.
IT'S A WIDE STREET, AND THEN IT'S A RACETRACK RIGHT UP THE HILL.
THE SAME THING HAPPENS WHEN YOU COME OFF OF, UM, EGYPT ROAD.
YOU SAY, HEY, THE LIGHT'S RED AND IT'S BACKED UP.
I'M GONNA MAKE THIS MY SHORTCUT.
AND YOU COME RIGHT DOWN THERE.
AND I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT NO ONE HAS HAD AN ACCIDENT ATTEMPTING TO, TO NEGOTIATE THAT RIGHT HAND TURN.
'CAUSE FREQUENTLY YOU SEE PEOPLE CROSS OVER INTO THE OPPOSITE LANE OF TRAFFIC.
NOW WE HAVE A 25 MILE PER HOUR SPEED LIMIT PAINTED ON THE STREET.
WE'VE HAD SIGNS UP THERE THAT INDICATE THE TRAFFIC SPEED FROM A RADAR.
AND OCCASIONALLY WE'VE HAD THE POLICE AND I KNOW THEY HAVE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO IN THIS TOWNSHIP THAN TO SIT IN THE DRIVEWAY OF THE SCHOOL AND MONITOR EVERYONE'S SPEED.
MY BIGGEST CONCERN, AND I THINK I'M BEING REDUNDANT HERE, IS THE TRAFFIC FLOW AND THE IMPACT TO SAFETY FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE STREET.
YOU WANNA BRING PEOPLE IN HERE TO PLAY IN A PLAYGROUND NOW, AND YOU HAVE AN ADDRESSED THE RACEWAY NOT ADDITION, NOT NOT INCLUDING THE FACT THAT WE'RE BOXED IN AND CAN'T GET OUT BECAUSE OF THE PRE EXISTING TRAFFIC PATTERNS.
AND I THINK THAT 51 HOUSES, TOWN HOMES WITH TRAFFIC IN AND OUT AT ALL TIMES A DAY IS GOING TO BE A SERIOUS PROBLEM.
SO THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO ME.
YOU, YOU, YOU MENTIONED, UH, PHOENIXVILLE.
ARE YOU SEEING INCREASED TRAFFIC ON WHITAKER FROM, YOU THINK COMING FROM PHOENIXVILLE? YES.
THEY ATTEMPT TO USE A SHORTCUT IF YOU DON'T, IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE AREA, YOU THINK IT CAN BE SHORTCUT AND IT CAN AT TIMES.
BUT, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAY, HEY, I WANNA MAKE A RIGHT TURN HERE.
I CAN, I CAN AVOID THE LIGHTNING, GET OUT TO EGYPT ROAD, EXCEPT THEY CAN'T GET OUT ON EGYPT ROAD NOW BECAUSE THE TRAFFIC, I SEE IT MORE, AND THIS IS THE MORE CONCERNING, UH, FOR ME BECAUSE I LOOK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL, PEOPLE COMING DOWN EGYPT AND SAYING, OH, TRAFFIC LATE THERE, I'M GONNA BAIL DOWN WHITAKER.
SOME CUT DOWN NORWOOD, SOME GO THROUGH TO GRACE AND YOU CAN TELL WHEN YOU GET TO THE BOTTOM, THEY'RE LIKE, THIS IS A 90 DEGREE TURN.
AND THEY END UP IN THE OPPOSITE LANE OF TRAFFIC.
I DROP, I DROP MY KIDS OFF ON EGYPT EVERY DAY.
FOUR OR FIVE CARS WEEK, LIKE IN THE MORNING.
SO THE EGRESS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS BEEN, HAS BEEN NEGATIVELY IMPACTED BY THE DEVELOPMENT OF PHOENIXVILLE AND NOW WE HAVE PEOPLE USING IT MORE FREQUENTLY AS A SHORTCUT.
ANYBODY ELSE, ALLISON, WHILE HE'S COMING UP THERE? QUICK QUESTION.
THEY, EVERY, A COUPLE PEOPLE HAVE MENTIONED TWO PARKING.
IS IT A TWO CAR GARAGE YOU'RE PROPOSING? YEAH, TWO CAR GARAGE AND A DRIVEWAY, AND THEN TWO CARS IN THE DRIVEWAY.
SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT FOUR CARS PER HOUSE PER UNIT, PLUS THE VISITOR SPACES.
WELL JUST FOR THAT UNIT THAT COULD POSSIBLY HAVE FOUR SPACES, IS THAT CORRECT? RIGHT.
I LIVE AT, UH, 2 0 8 EGYPT ROAD, PRETTY MUCH RIGHT ACROSS FROM, UM, THE, THE DEVELOPMENT AREA THERE.
UH, I JUST ALSO WANTED TO, UH, VOICE MY OPPOSITION, UM, AND LIKE CONCERNS ABOUT TRAFFIC.
UH, I, I WALK MY DOGS IN THIS AREA.
UM, IT'S ALREADY QUITE RISKY TO CROSS EGYPT ROAD, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC THAT GOES THERE.
UM, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE PEOPLE GO DOWN QUITE QUICKLY ON, ON WHITAKER AS, AS THE LAST, UH, GENTLEMAN MENTIONED.
UM, I'M PROBABLY GONNA HAVE, UH, KIDS SOON AND I'M SURE I'M GONNA BE WALKING IN THE SAME AREA WITH THEM.
SO I, I'M DEFINITELY, UH, CONCERNED ABOUT THE, THE INCREASED AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT WE'D SEE, UH, FROM THAT.
UM, AND A LITTLE MORE SELFISHLY, UH, THIS DEVELOPMENT WOULD, YOU KNOW, THIS IS BASICALLY MY, MY VIEW,
BUT THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S MORE OF A, UH, INDIVIDUAL CONCERN.
[01:05:01]
AM AARON MELMAN.UH, I'LL JUST START PIGGYBACKING ON THAT.
SELFISHLY, I AM RIGHT NEXT TO THE ENTRANCE THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE.
I'M RIGHT NEXT TO THEIR DRIVEWAY.
UM, SO OBVIOUSLY DON'T LOVE THE IDEA OF TOWNHOUSES LOOKING DIRECTLY INTO MY BACKYARD, BUT THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, SELFISH OBVIOUSLY.
UM, WE SHARE A DRIVEWAY THAT RUNS DIRECTLY WITH, UH, THE OLD SCHOOL HOUSE.
I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW THE NUMBER OF 51 HOMES CAME TO BE CONSIDERING ON HOLLOW ROAD RIGHT OFF EGYPT.
THE PROVIDENCE LANDING, UH, PLANNED COMMUNITY IN 9.8 ACRES HAS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 48 AND 50 TOWN HOMES THAT'S IN 9.8 ACRES.
AND THEY WANT TO FIT 4 51 IN, UH, LAND SPACE OF ABOUT 2.8.
SO I'M CURIOUS WHERE THEY CAME UP WITH THAT NUMBER.
SO THE NUMBER'S BASED ON WHAT'S PERMITTED BY ZONING, THERE ARE AREA IN BULK REQUIREMENTS,
THE ZONING ALLOWS FOR THE TOWNHOUSES.
SO THERE IS ZONING IN THAT COMMERCIAL DISTRICT THAT ALLOWS FOR TOWNHOUSES.
I CAN'T SPEAK SPECIFICALLY TO THE OTHER PROPERTY, BUT IT MAY BE IN A DIFFERENT ZONING DISTRICT, BUT OURS BASED ON POSSIBLY, I MEAN IT'S MAYBE MILE DOWN THE ROAD BASED ON, ON EACH.
SO OURS IS BASED ON WHAT'S, WHAT'S APPLICABLE TO TOWNHOUSES IN OUR ZONING DISTRICT.
THAT'S HOW YEAH, TOTALLY FAIR.
I JUST, I MEAN, I'M LOOKING AT THAT, THOSE TOWN HOMES AND THEY DID SUCH A GREAT JOB RIGHT THERE ON EGYPT ROAD AND UM, HOLLOW RIGHT ON A MAIN ROAD WHERE THEY DON'T INTEGRATE OR INTERFERE WITH TRAFFIC HERE.
THEY'RE NOT EVEN ON THE MAIN ROAD.
DON'T HAVE ANY DIRECT ACCESS TO FACILITATE ANYBODY GETTING IN AND OUT.
OBVIOUSLY THE TRAFFIC'S GONNA BE ABSOLUTELY EVERYBODY IN MONTCLAIR OR ANYBODY THAT LIVES IN THE MEADOWS OR ON WHITAKER ON GRACE OR ON NORWOOD IS GONNA JUST KEEP HARPING ON THE TRAFFIC ASPECT.
I JUST CAN'T POSSIBLY SEE WHERE 51 2 INCOME HOUSEHOLDS PLUS ARE GONNA BE ABLE TO FACILITATE, LIKE THEY SAID, STUCK IN A BOX IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
I MEAN ON GOD FORBID ANY AMBULANCES WHICH CONSTANTLY ARE COMING IN AND OUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, HAVE TO GET IN AND OUT OF, I MEAN THERE'S, WE DON'T HAVE A, A LIGHT TO GET IN AND OUT.
WE DON'T HAVE A STOP SIGN TO GET IN AND OUT OF ANY OF THOSE MAIN ROADS.
AND IT WOULD BE UNFEASIBLE TO ADD THOSE IN THOSE SPOTS.
CONSIDERING EGYPT ROAD IN 29 HAS A LIGHT TO PUT ONE JUST LESS THAN A 10TH OF A MILE DOWN THE ROAD ON EITHER DIRECTION WOULD BE WILD.
I JUST DON'T SEE HOW IT COULD POSSIBLY WORK.
OBVIOUSLY IT'S FOR EVERYBODY ELSE TO FIGURE OUT.
YEAH, REALLY QUICK, JUST BECAUSE, UM, I THINK I'M THE RESIDENT, RIGHT? WHAT, WHAT HE JUST DESCRIBED IT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE ON THIS VIEW, BUT EVERYTHING SURROUNDED BY EGYPT BRIDGE AND THEN, UM, I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M BLANKING ON IT, BUT THE ONE SOUTH OF OF NORTH GRACE, UM, GRACE, YEAH.
THERE'S NO SIGNALS OR STOP SIGNS.
SO IT'S, I'M AWARE YOU MEAN STOP SIGNS GOING ROAD? SURE.
NO, THERE'S CAN'T, IT HAS TO, YOU CAN'T JUST PULL OUT THESE ROADS, RIGHT? SO THERE, BUT THERE'S NO, THERE, THE POINT IS THERE'S NOTHING SLOWING DOWN TRAFFIC ON EGYPT OR BRIDGE COMING, COMING UP.
SO IF YOU'RE TRYING TO ESCAPE, YOU KNOW, NORTHEAST PLAYER, YOU CAN'T REALLY GET OUT.
CAN I JUST ASK ONE, ONE QUICK QUESTION YOU HAVE TO COME UP PLEASE.
UM, YOU HAVE TO COME UP BECAUSE I'M SORRY, THE SPEAKER HAS TO PICK YOU UP.
I TO YELL SPEAKER THE OUTSIDE LOUD ONCE AGAIN.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I, I'VE BEEN CURIOUS ABOUT, BUT NOBODY'S BROUGHT UP IN THE PRESENTATION.
WHAT IS THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDINGS? YEAH.
AND HOW FAR FROM, COME UP IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION.
HOW FAR IS THE PROPERTY ON THAT SIDE? THAT BEHIND THE THREE, UH, WE HAVE A 40 FOOT SETBACK.
AND THEN MS. WAGNER, DO YOU REPEAT YOUR QUESTION A LITTLE LOUDER.
I WAS WONDERING HOW FAR IT IS FROM THE BACK OF MY HOUSE, LIKE THE BACK OF THEIR PROPERTY THERE ON THAT LINE.
YOU SEE HOW HE GOES IN FOUR, FOUR SQUARES.
THAT RIGHT SIDE OF THAT DRIVES AWAY, WHATEVER.
THAT'S WHERE WE LIVE AND WE SHARE IT WITH TWO OTHER NEIGHBORS.
WE'RE JUST CURIOUS LIKE HOW FAR, HOW CLOSE ARE THOSE BUILDINGS GONNA BE? AND THEY LOOK LIKE THREE STORY OR TWO STORY, RIGHT? YEP.
THERE'S A 40 FOOT SETBACK REQUIREMENT IN THE ZONING CODE.
AND THEN IS THAT THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY OR THE FRONT OF THEIR PROPERTY? FACING US FROM THE BACK END.
[01:10:01]
IT'S A SETBACK FROM THE PROPERTY LINE? NO, I'M JUST SAYING THEY'RE, THEY'RE FRONT OF THEIR PROPERTY IS FACING AWAY FROM US.LIKE THE LITTLE STREET THAT GOES THROUGH.
THE, THE STREET IS ALL DEVELOPED.
YEAH, THE STREET IS INTERNAL TO THE, TO THE SITE.
I LIVE AT 2 2 8 NORWOOD STREET IN MONTCLAIR.
I AM ON THE OTHER PICTURE, THE RED ROOF THAT YOU SEE.
THERE ARE THREE HOMES ON THE WESTERN BORDER OF THIS DEVELOPMENT.
I'VE ENJOYED THE DEER THAT WALK FROM YOUR PROPERTY ACROSS MY PROPERTY ONTO THE SCHOOL PROPERTY.
I'VE ENJOYED OLD TREES THAT'S AROUND MY HOME.
I EXPECT CHANGE AND I'VE SEEN A LOT OF CHANGE IN MONTCLAIR AND IN MY AREA IN PARTICULAR.
I'VE SEEN MY PROPERTY ERODE TWO INCHES IN THE 40 YEARS THAT I'VE LIVED IN THAT HOUSE.
I'VE SEEN TREES TORN DOWN INDISCRIMINATELY.
I'VE SEEN AN INCREASE IN TRAFFIC CONGESTION ON ROUTE 29.
SOMETIMES I WAIT FIVE, 10 MINUTES TO GET OUT ONTO BRIDGE STREET, ROUTE 29.
I'VE SEEN A LITTLE VILLAGE OF MONTCLAIR CHOPPED UP, FLOODED, OVERDEVELOPED, AND OFTEN IGNORED WHERE A VILLAGE BUILD ON A DOWNHILL SLOPE.
EACH NEW BUILD, EACH NEW ADDITION OF IMPERVIOUS LAND WILL INTENSIFY THE DRAINAGE ISSUES THAT ALREADY EXIST.
I DON'T SEE THE EXISTING RETENTION BASINS IN THESE NEW PLANS THAT YOU'VE PRESENTED.
50 ADDITIONAL HOUSING UNITS WILL ADD A MINIMUM, MINIMUM OF A HUNDRED CARS VYING FOR SPACE IN THE SAME PLACE THAT WE ARE BUYING RIGHT NOW.
ADD THAT TO THE THOUSANDS OF NEW HOUSING UNITS AND DEVELOPMENTS PLANNED IN PHOENIXVILLE.
IF ONLY HALF OF THOSE PEOPLE GO UP ROUTE 29, WHICH ALREADY HAS AN OVERPASS, WHICH I SEE AS AN IMPEDIMENT TO TRAFFIC FLOW, EVENTUALLY YOU'LL DECIDE TO WIDEN THE ROADS.
TAKING PRIVATE LAND, YOU WON'T HAVE A CHOICE.
THESE PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO BUILD ON THEIR PROPERTY, BUT 51 52 UNITS IS EXCESSIVE PUBLIC PLAYGROUND WALKING PATHS AROUND THE PROPERTY INVITING ANYONE IN THE TOWNSHIP TO COME ON THOSE ROADS.
OUR SCHOOLS ARE NOT PREPARED TO HANDLE THIS.
OUR ROADS ARE NOT BUILT TO ACCOMMODATE IT AND OUR LAND IS JUST NOT ABLE TO ABSORB IT.
OUR SUPERVISORS WANT A VALID ISSUE TO RAISE TAXES TO PURCHASE OPEN SPACE.
WE HAVE OPEN SPACE RIGHT THERE IN MONTCLAIR UPHOLD THE ORIGINAL LEASE.
THE SIGN IN FRONT OF THIS ROOM SAYS ROOTED IN HISTORY, GROWING IN PROMISE.
AND I SUGGEST THAT THIS PLANNED DEVELOPMENT AS LARGE AS IS AS IT IS PLANNED NOW, WILL BE GROWING AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR HISTORY.
I REALLY DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW THAT, THAT WAS WONDERFUL.
UM, BUT I, I, I LOOK AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
YOUR JOB IS TO PROTECT QUALITY OF LIFE OF THE PEOPLE IN OUR TOWNSHIP.
AND I FEEL THIS RE REDEVELOPMENT WILL REDUCE OUR QUALITY OF LIFE AND IT WILL ALSO REDUCE THE QUALITY OF LIFE OF THE PEOPLE YOU'RE BUILDING THOSE HOUSES FOR.
UM, YOU'RE GONNA RUIN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE WALK UP AND DOWN THE STREET, WE SEE EACH OTHER.
WE WALK OUR DOGS, THE KIDS RIDE THEIR BIKES.
[01:15:01]
THAT'S NOT GONNA BE ANYMORE.AFTER YOU PUT THOSE 51 HOUSES THERE, WE WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
IT WILL SPLIT OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO THAT WILL REALLY AFFECT OUR QUALITY OF LIFE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
UH, YOU'RE GOING TO AFFECT THE QUALITY OF LIFE OF THE FUTURE PEOPLE.
I KNOW I HAVE PROBLEMS WITH ALL THIS.
FIRST, THE, IT'S ZONED COMMERCIAL, BUT WE CAN HAVE RESIDENTIAL BECAUSE OF WHATEVER.
AND WE HAD A 99 YEAR LEASE THAT'S OPEN SPACE, BUT WE CAN FORGET THAT TOO BECAUSE OF WHATEVER.
AND I HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THOSE THINGS WERE, IT WAS COMMERCIAL FOR A REASON.
IT WAS OPEN SPACE FOR A REASON.
AND WHY DO WE FORGET OUR COMMITMENTS AND OUR PROMISES? AND I THINK THOSE 51 TOWNHOUSES.
YEAH, BY ZONING YOU CAN PUT 51 THERE.
IT'S PROBABLY THE MAXIMUM YOU COULD PUT ON THAT SPACE.
WHY WOULD YOU PUT THE MAXIMUM? WHY DON'T YOU DESIGN IT FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE LIVING THERE INSTEAD OF JAMMING THEM REAL CLOSE TOGETHER.
IT'S GONNA BE LIKE A CITY RIGHT THERE ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THE MAXIMUM.
ALSO, YOU PUT THOSE, UH, PARKING SPACES, YOU FOLLOW THE REQUIREMENTS.
AH, YOU HAVE LIKE 26 PARKING SPACES FOR 51 TOWNHOUSES.
AND THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK ARE SUPPOSED TO, WHEN THEY HAVE GUESTS OVER PARK IN THAT PARKING SPACE IN THE FRONT, THEY'RE NOT GONNA DO IT.
YOUR DRIVEWAYS ARE SO SMALL, YOU CAN'T HAVE OTHER PEOPLE PARKING THERE.
THERE'S NO ON THE ROAD PARKING.
IT'S GONNA BE A MESS FOR THE PEOPLE LIVING THERE WHEN THEY TRY TO ENTERTAIN AND THEY LIVE THEIR LIVES.
SO YOU'RE IMPINGING ON THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE JUST BY THE WAY YOU'RE DESIGNING THAT BUILDING.
UM, I CAN'T SEE 51 TOWNHOUSES.
PEOPLE ARE GONNA HAVE KIDS AND DOGS.
WHERE ARE THEY GONNA GO? LOOK AT THAT STREET.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA RIDE THEIR BIKES THERE.
WHERE ARE THEY GOING? TO THE LITTLE KIDS GONNA PLAY AND PUT THEIR BUBBLES IN THEIR CHALK ON THEIR SIDEWALK.
AND WHERE ARE PEOPLE GOING TO GRILL? YOU DID NOT PLAN FOR ANY OF THAT STUFF BECAUSE YOU JUST WANNA PUT THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF HOUSES ON THE SPACE REQUIRED YOU DID NOT PLAN FOR THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE.
UM, SO I THINK YOU ARE JUST BUILDERS.
MANY OF THE DEVELOPERS, THEY DEVELOP INTO THEIR PLANS SO THE PEOPLE CAN HAVE A GOOD QUALITY OF LIFE.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S IN YOUR PLANS.
YOUR PLAN IS TO GET THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF HOUSES SO THE OWNER CAN GET THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF MONEY OUTTA THAT.
I THINK YOU SHOULD PLAN FOR THE QUALITY OF LIFE.
AND JUST THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO SAY.
YOU SAID YOU'D KEEP EXISTING TREES.
ALL THOSE PICTURES YOU HAD, THERE'S THOSE TREES AREN'T THERE.
AND THE TREES YOU SAY YOU'RE GONNA KEEP, YOU'RE GONNA CHOP 'EM DOWN.
YOU'RE NOT GONNA KEEP ANY EXISTING TREES.
UM, AND I JUST FEEL THAT IN THIS WHOLE THING, YOU LOST THE SIGHT OF THE QUALITY OF LIFE.
YOU'RE GONNA RUIN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU'RE NOT PLANNING FOR A GOOD QUALITY OF LIFE FOR THE PEOPLE IN THOSE HOUSES.
'CAUSE YOU DIDN'T PLAN FOR IT.
YOU JUST WANT TO MAXIMIZE THE NUMBER OF HOUSES.
NOW BEFORE YOU COME UP, I JUST WANTED TO ASK, HAVE YOU GUYS HAD ANY KIND OF LOCAL MEETINGS WITH THE COMMUNITY? YOU GUYS HAD THE COMMUNITY.
WE, WE DID HAVE A, UM, MEETING WITH REPRESENTATIVES OF THE MEADOWS OTHER THAT OF THE MEADOWS.
SO, UM, AND WE EXPRESSED TO THEM IF THERE WERE OTHER RESIDENTS THAT WERE INTERESTED IN MEETING WITH US, THAT WE WOULD CERTAINLY BE WILLING TO DO THAT UNTIL WE WERE HERE TONIGHT.
WE DIDN'T HAVE SPECIFIC NAMES OF PEOPLE THAT ARE INTERESTED.
I JUST, YOU KNOW, MY EXPERIENCE WITH DOING THIS AMOUNT FOR EIGHT, NINE YEARS IS THAT WHEN YOU GUYS AS DEVELOPERS AND THE FOLKS THAT ARE BRINGING THE CONCERNS UP, SOMETIMES WHEN YOU GUYS TALK FACE TO FACE, SOME OF THESE THINGS GO AWAY.
AND UH, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT, I'M JUST SAYING, I'M JUST SAYING THAT TAKE FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.
SO FOR INSTANCE, IN OUR MEETING WITH THE FOLKS THAT WE MET WITH FROM THE MEADOWS, UM, IT CAME OUT OF THAT MEETING THAT THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO HAVE A TO.
WE HAD NOT ORIGINALLY SHOWN A TRAIL CONNECTION ON OUR PLAN TO THAT SITE.
WE DIDN'T WANT TO BE PRESUMPTUOUS, BUT THAT WAS ACTUALLY MENTIONED AS A SUGGESTION TO ALLOW CHILDREN TO WALK THROUGH THE, THAT THAT AREA CREATE CONNECTIVITY OVER TO A SIDEWALK THAT WOULD BE PROPOSED ALONG THE WHITAKER FRONTAGE TO GET 'EM TO THE BUS STOP AT THE CORNER OF NORWOOD,
[01:20:01]
UM, RATHER THAN THE WAY THAT THEY WALK TODAY.SO THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT CAME OUT OF THAT MEETING.
I THINK THAT, I THINK WHAT WE'RE HEARING TONIGHT THOUGH IS SPECIFIC THINGS THAT I THINK YOU GUYS COULD PROBABLY ADDRESS.
YOU KNOW, FOLKS DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT ZONING QUESTION.
I THINK THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS PERMISSIBLE UNDER THE CURRENT RULE THAT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT THAT THE RULES WERE SET UP 50 YEARS AGO OR WHATEVER, SEVEN THE WAY THEY ARE.
AND THEN I THINK THE TRAFFIC SEEMS TO BE A BIG PROBLEM.
SO I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR PLANS ARE.
UH, YOU KNOW, MAYBE, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE DISCUSSIONS BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD.
BUT THAT'S JUST, THAT'S JUST A SUGGESTION.
ALLISON, I'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A WHILE.
WE'VE HAD THESE OTHER BATTLES WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES WHO WANTED TO BUILD AND I'VE SEEN THAT WHEN THAT CONVERSATION OCCURS, IT REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
I MEAN, DAVE HAD HAD MENTIONED BEFORE THAT HE WOULD BE, WELL, AND I KNOW YOU GUYS WOULD.
I'M JUST SAYING I, AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU COULD DO IT.
IT'S NOT LIKE YOU HAVE A COMMUNITY CENTER OR SOMEWHERE TO GO TO, BUT YOU KNOW, IF, YOU KNOW SUMMERTIME YOU CAN MET THE PARKING LOT OF THE SCHOOL AND SAID, HEY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A MEETING HERE AT THE PARKING LOT AT NINE O'CLOCK OR WHATEVER.
MAYBE IT WOULD HELP ANY GET SUGGESTION.
I KNOW YOU GUYS WOULD BE WILLING TO DO IT.
AL AL AZI 1 28 PATRIOT DRIVE AND I'M A FORMER TOWNSHIP SUPERVISOR HERE.
AND, UM, MR. WRIGHT, I AGAIN COMMEND YOU FOR, UH, HOW YOU, UM, RUN THE MEETINGS HERE AND YOUR LAST COMMENTS ABOUT, UM, GETTING EVERYONE TOGETHER TO DISCUSS THE VARIOUS ISSUES.
'CAUSE YOU HAVE LEGITIMATE ISSUES.
AND UH, THIS DEVELOPER WHO'S DOING OTHER PROJECTS IN TOWN HAS SHOWN THAT HE WILL WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY AND, AND MAKE SURE THAT THINGS ARE DONE RIGHT.
UM, THERE'S A LITTLE HISTORY HERE.
SOME OF YOU LIVED THERE FOR A LONG TIME.
THIS BUILDING, UH, WAS A SCHOOL, IT'S WELL OVER A HUNDRED YEARS OLD.
AND, UM, THE, WHEN THE, THE SCHOOL WAS NO LONGER A SCHOOL.
THE OWNER WHO, WHO PURCHASED IT FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, UH, THEY REHABILITATED THE BUILDING AROUND 1985.
THEY TRIED TO PRESERVE THE BUILDING, THEN THEY TRIED, THEY ALREADY TRIED THIS.
IT'S WELL OVER A HUNDRED YEARS OLD.
SO THEY'RE LOOKING FOR AN OPTION.
AND UM, AGAIN, SO THIS IS AN OPTION AND YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT WATER ON OFF LEGITIMATE, BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT, UM, OUR TOWNSHIP ENGINEER IS GONNA MAKE SURE THAT THE DRAINAGE IS BETTER THAN IT IS TODAY.
THEY HAVE TO, THAT'S HOW IT WORKS.
DRAINAGE IS, I'VE DONE MANY, MANY DEVELOPMENTS IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
AND GUESS WHAT? THEY ALL WORK OUT.
THERE'S NOT A DEVELOPMENT IN THIS TOWN WHERE PEOPLE ARE SO ANGRY THAT THEY, THEY MOVE.
NOW YOU NOW YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY HAPPY ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE SEEING, BUT THE TOWNSHIP ENGINEER'S GONNA MAKE SURE THAT THE, THE WATER RUNOFF IS BETTER THAN TODAY.
SECONDLY, THE TRAFFIC, LEGITIMATE CONCERNS WITH TRAFFIC.
ALRIGHT, THE GENTLEMAN HERE LIVES IN THE MEADOWS, ONE OF THE MOST DENSE AREAS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
AND YOU LIVE THERE AND YOU DON'T, YOU'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT ASKING, I'M SORRY, I SHOULDN'T BE TALKING TO YOU.
THEY, THEY, THEY ARE NOW DRIVING.
THERE'S AN ENTRANCE FOR THE MEADOWS SPECIFICALLY TO GO UP ON ANCIENT ROAD.
IF IT'S SUCH A PROBLEM, WHY DO WE CONTINUE TO GO OUT ONTO, UM, WHITAKER? BUT MY POINT IS THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER IS HERE.
THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER IS GONNA MAKE SURE THAT THE DEVELOPER PREPARES THE ROADS TO RECEIVE ANY ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC.
MR. BUSH, YOU HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
LIKE WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR ADDRESS? I LIVE IN THE, LIVE IN THE GREENHOUSE ACROSS FROM THE DELI, FROM THE DELI ON 29TH, THE BRIDGE.
SO AGAIN, YOU LIVE, YOU HAVE ALL THE TRAFFIC RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU EVERY DAY.
BUT THE, THE THESE 51 HOMES, UM, AGAIN, THE, THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER IS GONNA MAKE SURE IF THERE NEEDS TO BE A WIDENING, THERE NEEDS TO BE BETTER SIGHT PICTURE.
THERE NEEDS TO BE A TRAFFIC LIGHT, NOT LIKELY.
'CAUSE THERE'S A TRAFFIC LIGHT AT EGYPT AND EGYPT AND 29, WHICH WILL CONTROL.
I KNOW IF YOU SAY IT TAKES FOREVER TO GET OUT, BUT I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT TRAFFIC LIGHT METERS JUST FOR, ITS JUST BECAUSE IT'S THERE.
IT DOES BE IN THE TRAFFIC WITH THERE WAS NO LIGHT AT 29 AND EGYPT, THERE WOULD BE NO METERING.
SO THAT LIGHT CERTAINLY HELPS.
UM, SO AS FAR AS THE OPEN SPACE, THIS DEVELOPERS COME IN HERE, THEY'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE EVERY BIT OF THAT OPEN
[01:25:01]
SPACE.AND I DON'T THINK IT'S, UH, A DEBATE FOR THIS, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION TO DEAL WITH THE OPEN SPACE AT THAT TIME.
AT THIS TIME, THAT'S THE BOARD'S JOB.
THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WILL DECIDE SHOULD IT BE DEED RESTRICTED? SHOULD IT BE A, UM, A LEASE OR WHATNOT.
MR. BUSH, I KNOW YOU ASKED A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.
THAT'S THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
THAT'S WHAT THEY GET PAID TO DO.
YOUR JOB HERE IS, IS THIS PLAN VIABLE? DOES IT LOOK, LOOK GOOD? IS IT PERFECT? NOT YET.
BUT YOU NEED TO GIVE THE BOARD SOME DIRECTION THAT OKAY, THIS IS A VIABLE PLAN.
IT'S RIGHT NOW IN A VERY PRELIMINARY STAGE, BUT, UM, THEY'RE GONNA CROSS THE T'S AND DOT THE I'S AND THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
'CAUSE IT HAS TO, IT HAS TO HAPPEN OR ELSE IT WON'T HAPPEN.
COMMENTS ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OR ABOUT HOW THE COMMISSION SHOULD CONDUCT ITS BUSINESS? I'M SORRY? ARE YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OR ABOUT HOW THE COMMISSION SHOULD CONDUCT ITS BUSINESS? I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.
I'M JUST WONDERING IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS ON THE DEVELOPMENT BUSINESS.
WELL, I CAN, I'M INTERESTED FROM THE BOARD.
I CAN, I CAN SUGGEST HOW YOU CONDUCT YOUR BUSINESS.
SO, UM, AGAIN, THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WILL FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THE LEASE OR THE DEED RESTRICTION.
THEY SHOULD PROBABLY TAKE, TAKE OWNERSHIP OF IT.
BUT AGAIN, YOU HAVE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS.
I DO SUGGEST, AND I BELIEVE THE DEVELOPERS HERE, HE, THEY WILL MEET WITH YOU.
THEY WILL ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS.
YOU MIGHT NOT BE COMPLETELY HAPPY, BUT THEY'RE GONNA ANSWER A LOT OF YOUR QUESTIONS AND THEY'RE GONNA SOLVE A LOT OF YOUR PROBLEMS. SO, UM, THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
CAN I ONE MORE TIME? OH, SURE, SURE.
PROBLEMS. IS THIS A TRUMP EPISODE? OKAY, ONCE AGAIN, FOR THE RECORD, MY NAME IS DAVE
WANNA GRAVITY WHEN I CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT I JUST HEARD.
YOU DON'T LIVE ANYWHERE NEAR MONTCLAIR AND YOUR ATTEMPTING TO TELL US HOW TO CONDUCT OUR BUSINESS THERE.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU'RE RUNNING FOR OFFICE AGAIN OR WHAT THAT, THE PURPOSE OF THAT OR TELL THE THE BOARD WHAT THEY DO.
BUT THE REALITY IS, UNLESS YOU LIVE THERE, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE.
AND TELLING US THAT THE LIGHT IS METERED, THE LIGHT IS METERED FOR THE TRAFFIC ON EACH ROAD.
IT IS NOT METERED TO COORDINATE WITH THE TRAFFIC THAT'S COMING NORTHBOUND ON ROUTE ROUTE 29.
SO GIVING US THESE, UH, PLATITUDES THAT THE BOARD WILL FIX.
EVERYTH, I'M SORRY, NOT THE BOARD.
THESE ENGINEERS WILL FIX EVERYTHING.
SO PLEASE DON'T TRY TO TELL US THAT IT IS.
WE HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES WITH THIS.
WE HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS WITH THIS.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU MATTER.
THIS IS A MATTER OF FACT THOUGH.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE THE COMMENT THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS WE HEAR, LIKE I SAID, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR NINE YEARS NOW, AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE HEAR ALL THE TIME IS YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT, WELL CERTAINLY TRAFFIC IS EVERYBODY'S CONCERNED, BUT WATER IS ALWAYS A CONCERN.
WE HEAR WE HAVE A LOT OF FAITH IN OUR ENGINEERS.
I MEAN, WE'VE DONE A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT IN THIS AREA.
SOME PEOPLE COULD ARGUE WAY TOO MUCH.
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, I KNOW JEN AND I KNOW HER COMPANY AND I KNOW THAT WHEN THE TIME COMES TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS WATER RUNOFF DOESN'T AFFECT ANYBODY, THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
NOW WILL SHE TELL THE DEVELOPER, YOU HAVE TO DO THIS, THIS, AND THIS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN? I'M SURE SHE WILL.
BUT WHEN THAT, WHEN WHEN IT DOES HAPPEN, IT WILL WORK.
AND, AND WE HAVE THIS ARGUMENT WITH EVERY DEVELOPMENT THAT COME THE SAME EXACT ARGUMENT WITH EVERY DEVELOPMENT THAT COMES INTO THIS TOWNSHIP.
AND, UH, AND LIKE I SAY, OUR, OUR CONSULTANTS, OUR ENGINEERS, OUR PEOPLE THAT WORK WITH THE TOWNSHIP DO A GREAT JOB.
SO I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
I THINK THE TRAFFIC IS LEGITIMATE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T CHANGE ROADS.
BUT, UH, I HAVE A FULL FAITH IN IN THE WATER BEING MANAGED CORRECTLY FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.
YOU CAN TAKE MY WORD FOR THAT.
I DON'T LIVE IN MONTCLAIR, BUT I DO CERTAINLY, UH, I I, THERE'S I BUILDING GOING ON WHERE I LIVE TOO.
SO I I I'M ALSO JUST GONNA SAY, I THINK WE DO NEED TO CUT DOWN ON THE REPEAT COMMENTS.
YOU KNOW, EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO COME UP AND MAKE THEIR COMMENT, MAKE THEIR PUBLIC COMMENT.
BUT THIS ISN'T AN ASK AND ANSWER.
AND THEN EVERYONE RESPONDS, YOU KNOW, PLEASE COME UP, MAKE YOUR, MAKE YOUR COMMENT.
AND AT THIS ZACH'S POINT, WHAT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY.
WE UNDERSTAND THE WATER ISSUE AND I'M TELLING YOU IT'S GONNA GET RIGHT IF WE DECIDE TO DO THIS.
SO IF YOU HAVE THAT CONCERN AND YOU WANT COME UP AND TALK ABOUT THE WATER RUNNING INTO YOUR, YOUR BACKYARD, PLEASE DON'T, BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THAT.
I FEEL AS THOUGH AARON 2 0 4 NORWOOD STREET, SOME OF THE, WHAT WE'VE JUST BEEN DELIVERED
[01:30:01]
IS A LITTLE DISINGENUOUS.MAY A MEETING AT THE MEADOWS EXISTED, I GUESS, I MEAN, I'M LITERALLY YOUR NEIGHBOR ARE TO THIS DEVELOPMENT, A SIMPLE KNOCK ON THE DOOR.
YEAH, I I'VE ASKED HIM TO DO THAT.
I'M SURE LITTLE GOODWILL SHOULD HAVE DID IT BEFORE.
WELL, MAYBE IT GOES THE WRONG WAY ON THE FRONT END.
AND THEN WHEN WE'RE TOLD IT HAD DEVELOPMENT HAS TO HAPPEN, IT JUST HAS TO HAPPEN.
IT'S LITTLE DISINGENUOUS AS WELL.
WE'RE HAPPY TO WORK WITH PEOPLE BECAUSE AGAIN, THEY ARE OUR NEIGHBORS.
SOMEBODY OWNS THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY AND IT IS WITHIN THEIR RIGHT TO TRY AND DEVELOP IT.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN JUST DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH IT.
IT STILL HAS TO WORK WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
SO IF YOU'RE JUST BEING FORCE FED, THE LIGHT WORKS, CONGRATULATIONS, THE LIGHT WORKS.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S GONNA BE ABLE TO FACILITATE PEOPLE GETTING OUT OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND AGAIN, TRAFFIC IS THE SAME THING.
WE ALL KNOW THERE'S GONNA BE TRAFFIC ISSUES.
WE'VE, WE'VE HEARD IT AND WE UNDERSTAND IT.
LET'S, IF YOU HAVE A LEGITIMATE QUESTION ABOUT THE ACTUAL DEVELOPMENT, THEN THAT'S WHERE WE SHOULD BE AT THIS POINT.
HI, MY NAME'S KAREN DOYLE, 5 22 BRIDGE STREET.
I'M ACTUALLY RIGHT AT THE CORNER OF 29.
EGYPT AND BRIDGE STREET RIGHT THERE.
UM, JUST IN THE PAST YEAR, MY MAILBOX HAS BEEN DRIVEN THROUGH TWICE AND WE'VE HAD A FLIPPED CAR.
SO NOT ONLY IS IT TRAFFIC RELATED, BUT THERE IS A SAFETY ASPECT AS WELL.
MY CHILDREN AND I LOVE WALKING INTO PHOENIXVILLE.
WE CURRENTLY DON'T HAVE A SIDEWALK TO DO THAT SAFELY.
I ACTUALLY HAVE TO WALK THEM BEHIND MY HOUSE IN WHITAKER BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A SIDEWALK TO GO ON EGYPT OR, 'CAUSE IT'S NOT SAFE FOR THEM TO WALK ON THE SIDE OF EGYPT ROAD BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MUCH TRAFFIC.
UM, SO I JUST, I REALLY THINK WE NEED TO, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING A PLAYGROUND AND ADDING SPACES AND TO MY UNDERSTANDING, THE PLAYGROUND'S GONNA BE ON THE SIDE OF EGYPT ROAD.
IS THAT CORRECT? NO, IT, OR IS THERE ON THE OTHER SIDE.
UM, BUT ADDING THAT INCREASE, NOT ONLY IN THE TOWN HOMES AND IN THE PLAYGROUND AS WELL, I, I'M REALLY CONCERNED FOR NOT ONLY MYSELF, BUT MY CHILDREN.
WE CAN BARELY WALK ON EGYPT ROAD RIGHT NOW.
UM, AND I AM BRIGHT THAT LIGHT, SO THAT'S, I CAN'T MAKE A LEFT OUTTA MY HOUSE.
IT'LL TAKE ME AT LEAST 10 MINUTES AT LEAST, UM, WHETHER IT'S METERED OR NOT.
UM, AND THOSE TOWN HOMES HAVE, TO MY UNDERSTANDING, THREE ROADS, WHITAKER AT WOOD AND NORWOOD, THAT'S, THERE'S NOWHERE ELSE FOR THEM TO GO OTHER THAN EGYPT ROAD AND BRIDGE STREET.
AND WE KNOW THEY WHERE THOSE SLEEP.
UM, AND THAT'S, I I'M REALLY CONCERNED FOR NOT ONLY ME AND MY KIDS, BUT THE TOWN AND THE SAFETY.
I SAW TWO BOYS TRYING TO CROSS EGYPT ROAD ON THEIR BIKES TODAY, AND I ALMOST HAD A HEART ATTACK BECAUSE IT WAS REALLY SCARY.
SO IMAGINING EVEN MORE TRAFFIC AND MORE FAMILIES TRYING TO, UM, WE ALSO HAVE THAT CROSSWALK ON EGYPT ROAD WHERE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF SENIORS TRYING TO CROSS AND IT'S, THEY'LL SIT THERE FOR A FEW MINUTES BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MUCH TRAFFIC.
AND I KNOW THAT'S, IT'S NOT ONLY THE TRAFFIC, BUT IT'S A SAFETY FOR THE CITIZENS AND COMMUNITY AND CHILDREN.
WE HAVE A LOT OF KIDS IN MONTCLAIR AND PHOENIXVILLE.
I SEE 'EM WALKING AROUND ALL THE TIME.
UM, AND ADDING, ALTHOUGH PLAYGROUND SITES, YOU KNOW, IT'S, I AM CONCERNED FOR THEIR SAFETY IN ADDITION TO THESE TOWN HOMES AND THE TRAFFIC AND THE THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'LL LEAD AFTER.
AGAIN, WE UNDERSTAND THE TRAFFIC ISSUE.
PLEASE, YOU KNOW, WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE GOING, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT VERY SERIOUSLY.
ARLAN BE SEVEN, EIGHT, HAVE A VERY BRIEF MEETING WITH 3, 3 3 OF US FROM THE MEADOWS.
MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE MEADOWS BOTH HONOR THE SHOW UP BECAUSE WE ARE SURROUNDING BY GLOBAL PACKAGING AND A COUPLE OTHER FACILITIES, UM, JUST BASICALLY DON'T FEEL WE'RE GONNA BE HEARD ANYHOW.
NO MATTER WHAT WE SAY, WE MAY GET SOME TREES BETWEEN US.
I'M GONNA BE LOOKING STRAIGHT INTO THOSE BUILDINGS BECAUSE I LIVE RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE, THE END OF IT.
SO I CAN SEE THE MONTCLAIR SCHOOL NOW FROM LIKE, I'M ON THE SECOND FLOOR BECAUSE OF THE, THE HEIGHT, RELATIVE HEIGHT THERE TO OUR APARTMENT.
SO, BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE, WE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY FAITH THAT ANYTHING WILL HAPPEN.
ANY TREES THAT THEY PLANT AND THEY WILL PREP AND I'M SURE WE WILL START ABOUT FIVE OR SIX FEET HIGH.
THEY WILL NOT BLOCK ANY OF THOSE BUILDINGS FROM OUR SIDE.
BUT I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER HOW TO DO IT.
SO WE'RE NOT REAL, WE'RE NOT HAPPY WITH IT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY FAITH THAT WE CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
HI, MY NAME IS CLAUDIA VAN POP, 2 2 4 EGYPT ROAD.
UM, FIRST I WANNA SAY THAT I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
[01:35:01]
TO REITERATE THE CONCERNS THAT OTHERS HAVE ALREADY STATED BECAUSE THAT'S THE POINT OF THIS IS TO EMPHASIZE THE THINGS THAT ARE NOT WITHIN WHAT, WHAT WE WANT TO HAPPEN IN OUR COMMUNITY.SO I WILL MENTION THE TRAFFIC AGAIN.
I THINK THAT THAT'S A HUGE CONCERN.
I AM ON EGYPT ROAD AND SO SIMILARLY TO THE WOMAN WHO LEFT WITH HER CHILDREN, WE LOVE TO GO DOWNTOWN AND RECREATE.
SO WE ARE CONSTANTLY GETTING ON OUR BIKES, BATTLING THE TRAFFIC, MAKING OUR TURN, AND GETTING ONTO WHITAKER WHERE WE FEEL ACTUALLY A LITTLE BIT SAFER BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE BUSY STREETS.
UM, BUT WITH 51 TOWN HOMES, THAT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO CHANGE.
UM, AND TAKES AWAY, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE DECIDED TO COMPROMISE AND BUY A HOUSE ON EGYPT ROAD IS BECAUSE WE WANTED TO RECREATE DOWNTOWN.
UM, I THINK THE SCHOOLS IS ALSO INTERESTING.
MY CHILDREN ARE A LITTLE, UM, HEF DAY KINDERGARTEN IS REALLY TOUGH AND I DON'T SEE THAT CHANGING.
IF WE CONTINUE TO INCREASE THE POPULATION, UM, WITH 51 TOWN HOMES CRAMMING IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, THE TRAFFIC IS NOT JUST ABOUT THIS DEVELOPMENT, RIGHT, BECAUSE OF THIS INTERSECTION.
IT'S SUCH A HUB, IT'S DEVELOPMENT OF QUEST, ALL THESE OTHER BUILDINGS, RIGHT? SO I THINK IT'S NOT JUST A TRAFFIC STUDY OF THIS DEVELOPMENT THAT IMPACTS OUR COMMUNITY IN PARTICULAR, BUT ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING.
UM, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT COMES INTO CONSIDERATION WITH A PROJECT LIKE THIS.
UM, SO MAYBE THAT IS A QUESTION.
DO, DOES IT, DO THEY, WITH AN INTERSECTION LIKE THIS THAT WE HAVE, UM, AGAIN, WE, WE DEFER TO OUR ENGINEERS TO TELL US WHERE THERE COULD BE POSSIBLE PROBLEMS. SO AT THIS POINT, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT OTHER THAN WE WOULD ASK BRIAN TO TELL US WITH THIS COMMUNITY BEING BUILT WHERE THERE WILL BE PROBLEMS NOT ONLY ON A WHITAKER OR ON EGYPT, BUT WHERE DOES IT CAUSE PROBLEMS SOMEWHERE ELSE.
AND AS FOR THE SCHOOLS, OUR WONDERFUL SCHOOL BOARD IS INVITED TO ALL THESE MEETINGS AND WHATEVER DEVELOPMENT IS TALKED ABOUT IN OUR TOWNSHIP, AND THEY NEVER CHOOSE TO PARTICIPATE.
SO I, THE SCHOOLS IS ALWAYS A PROBLEM FOR ME.
I ALWAYS AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE SCHOOLS AND NEW DEVELOPMENT, BUT OUR SCHOOL BOARD DOES NOT SEEM TO THINK IT'S AN ISSUE FOR THEY TO COME AND GIVE THEIR OPINIONS.
AND BRIAN, I THINK YOU DID RECOMMEND A SECONDARY TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY TO THE POINT THAT, UH, SHE'S TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT? YEAH.
THAT IT'S PART OF OUR RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THERE'S SOME ACTUAL TRAFFIC ANALYSIS OF EXISTING CONDITIONS AND THEN THE IMPACT THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT WOULD HAVE ON THOSE INTERSECTIONS IN THE AREA SO THAT WE CAN QUANTIFY AND IDENTIFY ANY PINCH POINTS THAT, THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT THIS WILL NEGATIVELY IMPACT AND IDENTIFY WHAT CAN BE DONE TO, TO MITIGATE THAT IMPACT.
IF WE TAKE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS WHEN BRIAN DOES HIS JOB, THEN WE WILL HEAR WHAT IMPACT IT HAS ALL OVER THE AREA.
UM, THE FACT THAT THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS, SO ONE OF THE PART OF THE PRESENTATION WAS THAT THERE'S RECREATION THAT THESE FOLKS WILL HAVE AND THERE'S PICTURES OF PEOPLE ON BICYCLES, BUT LIKE THEY CAN'T GO ANYWHERE.
THERE ARE LITERALLY NO SIDEWALKS IN THE AREA.
SO I FIND THAT KIND OF COMICAL BECAUSE YES, THEY HAVE SOME MAYBE WALKING PATHS ON THE OPEN SPACE, BUT LIKE, I DON'T KNOW THAT IS, THEY'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR SIDEWALKS OR PROPERTY.
I KNOW, BUT I JUST AM POINTING OUT THE FACT THAT LIKE THESE RESIDENTS OF THESE 51 TOWN HOMES, LIKE ARE GONNA GO IN A CIRCLE AND MAYBE THAT'S FINE, BUT LIKE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR THEM IS NOT WELL WE ARE, WE ARE.
BUT THERE IS A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT THIS COMMISSION DEVELOPED.
IF YOU'RE NOT THE TITLE LINE, IT'S AVAILABLE FOR ANYBODY TO READ.
WE DEVELOPED IT LAST YEAR AND IN THERE THERE'S A BIG SECTION ON SIDEWALKS WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO TAKE AREAS LIKE THIS AND MAKE SIDEWALKS.
NOW THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE COULD JUST SNAP OUR FINGERS, IT'S TO PUT A SIDEWALK BECAUSE IT'S PRIVATE PROPERTY.
THERE HAS TO BE PURCHASES, THERE HAS TO BE AGREEMENTS AND IT'S NOT AN EASY JOB.
BUT WE ARE AWARE OF THAT PROBLEM.
THAT'S WHY WE TELL EVERY NEW DEVELOPER PART OF A NEW DEVELOPMENT IN OUR TOWNSHIP.
THERE HAS TO BE SOME, RIGHT? YEAH.
I THINK IN PARTICULAR THOUGH, BECAUSE THERE ARE NONE IN THIS AREA, LIKE PLANTING IT IN FRONT OF THAT DEVELOPMENT ISN'T REALLY THAT IMPACTFUL.
AND IT'S LIKE A RESIDENT WHO COULD BRING MY CHILDREN TO THIS PLAYGROUND.
LIKE I CAN'T USE A SIDEWALK TO GET TO IT.
SO IT DOESN'T REALLY HELP IN THAT REGARD.
UM, QUESTION, WHAT ARE THESE GONNA BE SOLD FOR? LIKE WHAT'S THE PRICE POINT WE HAVE? LET'S TRY THE 400,000 AND UP, YOU KNOW THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA DO COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE.
WE'RE NOT VERY ANNOYED BY THE SITUATION.
YOU HAVE TO COME UP TO THE THING.
DO YOU WANNA MAKE A COMMENT? SO PLEASE.
THAT'S ALL I HAD WAS MY LAST QUESTION.
YOU DO YOU HAVE A COMMENT? COME ON UP.
I'M SAME AGITATED INDIVIDUAL THAT STARTED IT OUT.
IT SOUNDS LIKE I'M IN A TRUMP SUM HERE.
YOU'RE GOING TO DO THIS AND THAT AND THE OTHER THING, BUT WE'RE GOING TO
[01:40:01]
DO IT.AND YOU BLOODY WELL KNOW WHAT'S GOING HAPPEN.
THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD IT REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE SAY.
EGYPT ROAD IS A TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT ALL THE WAY TO HELL UP THE AUDUBON AND THE ONE TOWNHOUSE GROUP.
THE CARS ARE PARKED ALL THE WAY OUT TO EGYPT ROAD BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SPACE FOR 'EM.
SO SOMEONE BETTER DO SOME DAMN GOOD THINKING ABOUT THIS.
THEY TORE UP OUR WHOLE WOODED AREA AT THE MEADOWS TO PUT IN A TRUCKING SHIPPING AND RECEIVING FACTORY OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, TORE DOWN THE WHOLE WOODS.
AND NOW WE GET TO LOOK AT THAT LOVELY SITE.
DID THEY ASK US ABOUT OUR CONCERN? I DOUBT IT.
SO GIVE SOME GOOD THOUGHT TO THIS.
WE'RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT, I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE FLOODING.
YES, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT, THE TRAFFIC, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT.
BUT YOU START SCRAPING THE FRONT YARDS OF PEOPLE TO MAKE EGYPT ROAD WIDER.
THEIR PROPERTY IS GOING TO BE LOST.
WELL, WE CAN'T MAKE EGYPT ROAD.
YOU HAVEN'T DRIVEN TO A HAVEN'T SAID STATE ROAD.
IT'S NOT US TO DEVELOP THAT ROAD CHANGE.
WELL THEN WE WON'T DEVELOP IT.
WHERE DO YOU LIVE SIR? RIGHT THERE AT THE MEADOWS.
SO WHEN, HOW OLD'S THE MEADOWS? OH GOD BLESS.
I WHAT DO YOU THINK THERE WAS? WHAT RELEVANT DOES THIS HAVE? WAS THERE A MEETING LIKE THIS WHEN YOU, WHEN THE
I SAY I WAS DONE FOR MY LAWYER HERE.
WE GOTTA KEEP THIS SHORTER AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA DEBATE.
UH, CHRIS MCKAY, 180 WALNUT STREET.
UM, MY QUESTION, I HAD A QUESTION CONCERNING THE, UM, THE STORMWATER RUNOFF STUFF.
DO WE, IS THERE EVER KIND OF LIKE, AFTER EVERYTHING'S BUILT, DOES ANYONE EVER CHECK TO SEE IF THAT'S ACTUALLY LIKE, WORKING APPROPRIATELY OR IS IT JUST KIND OF, IF YOU HEAR NOTHING COMING IN THE BACKYARD, LIKE, LIKE IF NO ONE COMPLAINS AND IT'S LIKE, OKAY, IT'S FINE.
BUT KIND OF CURIOUS ABOUT ANY KIND OF CHECKUPS ON THAT.
WHEN, WHEN A STORMWATER FACILITY IS INSTALLED, WE INSPECT IT.
UM, WHEN A DEVELOPMENT CLOSES OUT, WE INSPECT IT.
WHEN 18 MONTHS GOES BY AND THE, AND THE, AND THE, THE MAINTENANCE BOND IS COMPLETE, WE INSPECT IT.
DO WE INSPECT IT EVERY YEAR? NO, WE CERTAINLY DON'T BECAUSE MOST OF THESE AREN'T HOA PROPERTY.
BUT WE DO HAVE, FROM A TOWNSHIP'S PERSPECTIVE, WE DO LOOK AT THESE, UM, STORMWATER BASINS AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE FUNCTIONING PROPERLY AND THEY BUILD TO THE SPECIFICATIONS THAT THEY WERE DESIGNED TO.
YEAH, I HAVE NO LIKE CONSPIRACY THEORIES ABOUT EXPERTISE OR ANYTHING.
UM, AND THEN AS FAR AS THE PLAYGROUND IS CONCERNED, IS THAT GONNA BE OWNED BY THE TOWN OR BY THE HOI OR IS THAT KIND OF THING THAT, THAT NEEDS TO BE DETERMINED BY THE TOWN, BY THE SUPERVISORS.
UM, WE HAVE THIS HURDLE OF THIS INITIAL MEETING AND WHEN WE GO TO THE BOARD THEN WE PROBABLY HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS BEFORE THE BOARD WOULD DECIDE IF THEY'RE GOING TO ACCEPT DEDICATION OF IT PER OUR ORDINANCE.
THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE TO OFFER IT.
IT'S UP TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO TAKE IT.
AND THEN THE LEASE IS SEPARATE AND APART FROM THAT FOR THE PLAYGROUND.
SO I'M PRETTY EXCITED ABOUT HAVING A PLAYGROUND THAT'D BE A LITTLE BIT CLOSER THAN, THAN UH, RE'S PARK IN PHOENIXVILLE.
I'VE ONLY BEEN, I'VE BEEN HERE LESS THAN 10 YEARS.
I'VE SEEN A TON OF CHANGE, YOU KNOW, LOST A TON OF NEIGHBORS, BUILDINGS, HOUSES GOT TORN DOWN.
SO I'VE SEEN THINGS GET TAKEN AWAY.
YOU KNOW, GO UP AND UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S TOUGH TO LOSE PEOPLE LIKE THAT.
'CAUSE I'M NOT FROM HERE, YOU KNOW, I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE 50 YEARS, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T GRADUATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL HERE.
UM, I FELT VERY WELCOMED HERE.
UM, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A LITTLE LESS DISAPPOINTING THAN EVERYONE LINING UP TO TRY TO STOP AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPLEX ON A CHURCH LOT.
BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S, I LIKE THE POTENTIAL FOR NEW FRIENDS AND NEW NEIGHBORS AND I DO TRUST THE TOWN TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE SAFE.
SO THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SAY.
AND JUST TO LET EVERYBODY KNOW, MR. MCKAY RAISED, HE LIVES ON WALNUT STREET AND HE LIVED, HE RAISED TWO SIDES OF A TWIN FAIRLY SHORTLY AFTER IDA.
AND, AND, AND I NEEDED TO HAVE HIS OWN HEARING TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE FLIGHT ZONE.
YEAH, HE, HE WENT, WE PUT HIM THROUGH A LOT.
AND I'M NOT, THAT DOESN'T AFFECT ANYTHING HERE.
I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S WHY I MADE THE JOKE ABOUT HIS HOUSE.
SOMETHING GETTING YEAH, WE, WE LIKE IT HERE A LOT ON THAT.
AND UH, IF YOU EVER WANNA SEE IT, IT, IT IS, AS YOU SAID ON WALNUT STREET, IT'S AMAZINGLY WELL DONE.
IT'S A NICE PLACE TO LIVE AND I'D LIKE TO SHARE THE TOWN.
OKAY FOLKS, I'M GOING TO ANYMORE, ANYMORE MORE COMMENTS.
GIVE FIVE MORE MINUTES IF YOU WANT.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY OR COMMENTS? IF NOT, ALRIGHT, WELL HOW ZACH, WHAT'S OUR RULE HERE?
[01:45:01]
UM, I I I MEAN I, I THINK THAT, ARE YOU GUYS LOOKING FOR THE RECOMMENDATION ON THE TENTATIVE SKETCH? YES, WE ARE.SO I THINK THAT THE APPROPRIATE WOULD BE TO CONSIDER RECOMMENDATION FOR, UH, APPROVAL OF THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN, UM, BASED ON THEIR COMPLIANCE WITH THE REQUIREMENTS IN THE SAL THOUGH.
UH, I THINK THAT IT WOULD ALSO BE BENEFICIAL FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO, UM, PROVIDE ANY SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS AS TO HOW THE PLAN MAY BE CHANGED.
UM, THAT IN A WAY THAT WOULD BE BE MORE BENEFICIAL TO THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, IF, IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC IDEAS OTHER THAN JUST DON'T BUILD IT
UM, JUST IN TERMS OF OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH THE DEVELOPER, I, I SEE TWO, I'LL, I'LL MAKE THE COMMENTS FIRST.
PLEASE TAKE YOUR COMMENTS AND MAKE YOUR COMMENT BEFORE WE DECIDE WHAT TO DO HERE.
BUT ALISON, I HAVE TWO THINGS THAT I, I'D LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN BEFORE I THINK THIS THING MOVES FORWARD AND GET.
ONE IS I, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT, SO I APOLOGIZE, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE IT EQUAL TO NEIGHBORS.
I'D LIKE TO SEE AN OFFER THAT NOW THE MEADOW, THOSE PEOPLE SAID THEY ONLY HAVE THREE PEOPLE SHOW UP.
UM, BUT I THINK YOU NEED TO OFFER THAT AND, AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT SOME OF THESE CONCERNS THAT THEY HAD.
AND THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE SETTLED BEFORE I GET IS I THINK THIS PROPERTY ISSUE WITH THE TOWNSHIP, I THINK THAT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF FINALIZE THAT SO THAT WE ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF IS THE TOWNSHIP INTERESTED IN TAKING THIS PROPERTY? IF NOT, WHAT HAPPENS TO IT AND WHAT, IF NOT, WHAT HAPPENS TO IT AND WHO OWNS IT AND WHO, WHO COULD DEVELOP IT, WHATEVER.
UM, AND AND FINALLY, UH, THIS, THIS COMMISSION RIGHT HERE IS SPENT AND IS SPENDING, UH, WE, WE MEET TWICE A MONTH.
THIS THE SECOND MEETING WE HAVE EVERY MONTH.
SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT OUT 'CAUSE WE CANCELED 4TH OF JULY, YOU KNOW, BUT ALLY, RIGHT NOW IT'S EVERY, IT'S THE SECOND MEETING WE HAVE EVERY MONTH AND WE'RE WORKING ON DIFFERENT, IN OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, DIFFERENT, UH, PINCH AREAS AND THE BIGGEST ONE.
AND, UH, SOMEBODY MADE REFERENCE TO WHAT THE SUPERVISORS ARE TRYING TO GET ON THE BALLOT FOR NOVEMBER.
BUT WE'RE SPENDING A LOT OF TIME AS THIS COMMISSION TRYING TO LOOK FOR OPEN SPACE TOO.
MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PROTECTING THIS COMMUNITY WITH OPEN SPACE.
I THINK, I THINK EVERYBODY IN THIS TOWNSHIP WOULD AGREE THAT OPEN SPACE IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
SO I THINK THOSE ISSUES ARE SOMETHING THAT I NEED TO FEEL BETTER ABOUT THAN I DO RIGHT NOW.
SO I'M JUST BEING FAIR WITH YOU.
ANYBODY ELSE COMMENT? UH, YEAH.
SO I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE HERE IN THE SEVENTIES OR WHENEVER THE LEASE WAS SIGNED, LIKE I I WOULD NOT HAVE ZONED IT.
WHATEVER IT IS THAT ALLOWS FOR TOWN HOUSING, I THINK MOST PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE EITHER, BUT IT IS ZONED THAT, UM, AND TOWN HOUSING IS ALLOWABLE.
THE, THE ALMOST ALL OF THE REST OF THE PARCELS AROUND IT ARE, FORGET WHAT THE NAME OF THE OVERLAY ZONE IS FOR MONTCLAIR, BUT IT'S LIKE THE VILLAGE PRESERVATION DISTRICT.
IT, IT'S A, IT IS A MAP DISTRICT.
AND IT'S NOT REALLY PRESERVING THE VILLAGE I THINK IS THE POINT THAT THE RESIDENTS ARE MAKING, HOWEVER IT IS KNOWN THAT.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I, YOU KNOW, KIND OF LOOK LIKE, LOOK FOR PLACES OF LEVERAGE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT A PLANNING COMMISSION DOES AT THIS STATE, BUT WE ADVISE THE BOARD, RIGHT? WE DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE A LOT OF AUTHORITY.
WE'RE ALL JUST VOLUNTEERS, RIGHT? AND WE ADVISE THE BOARD ON WHAT THEY, THEY CAN AND SHOULD DO.
THE BOARD IS ALSO CONSTRAINED A LITTLE BIT.
THE SOLICITOR ALLUDED TO THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO LOOK TO SEE IF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT COMPLIES WITH THE WRITTEN ORDINANCE.
AND YOU KNOW, IN THIS CASE, AS I UNDERSTAND THE REVIEW FROM THE PROFESSIONAL CONSULTANTS AND THE SOLICITOR BEFOREHAND, THAT IT, IT DOES FOR PURPOSES OF A SKETCH PLAN.
AND THERE'S THERE A PRELIMINARY PLAN, A TENTATIVE SKETCH, TENTATIVE SKETCH, THANK YOU TENTATIVE SKETCH.
BUT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF ISSUES THAT THAT NEED TO BE WORKED OUT.
UM, YOU KNOW, STORM WATER TRAFFIC, OPEN SPACE, THOSE SEEMED LIKE THE THREE BIGGEST AR AREAS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED TO GET THE CONSENSUS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
BUT I ALSO DO WANNA SAY, AND I THINK A COUPLE OF THE FOLKS THAT WERE EVEN OPPOSED OF THE DEVELOPMENT RECOGNIZE THIS, IT'S NOT OUR PROPERTY, IT'S YOUR PROPERTY OR WHOEVER YOU REPRESENTS PROPERTY.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A RIGHT
[01:50:01]
TO DO THINGS AND, AND YOU KNOW, THE RIGHT IS NOT NECESSARILY WHAT I WOULD WANT, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE DOORS DOWN FROM MY HOUSE, BUT IT IS THE RIGHT AND I RECOGNIZE THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND SOME COMMON GROUND WITH THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD TO ADDRESS STORM WATER TRAFFIC AND OPEN SPACE.AND YOU KNOW, SIMILAR TO THE CHAIR'S POINT, I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO THAT AS WE MOVE THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS.
BUT I ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, THE TOWNSHIP'S LEVERAGE, IF YOU WILL, IS LIMITED I THINK EVEN MORE THAN I THOUGHT IT WAS WITH THE LEASE.
JOE, I DON'T HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL COMMENTS FROM WHAT YOU'VE SAID AND WHAT, UH, KEVIN ALREADY SAID AS WELL.
UH, YOU KNOW, FROM A TENTATIVE SKETCH PERSPECTIVE, UM, THERE ARE LOTS OF, LOTS OF ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE RESOLVED AND UH, UM, AGAIN, AS TOM SAID, OPEN SPACE IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT ISSUE THAT THE SUPERVISORS NEED TO DEAL WITH.
AND I THINK OUR ROLE IN THAT REGARD, AS ZACH INDICATED, IS FOR US TO RECOMMEND IF WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, THAT THEY SERIOUSLY CONSIDER TAKING OVER THAT OPEN SPACE RECREATION AREA AS PART OF THEIR APPROVAL PROCESS.
WELL, LEMME JUST THROW ANOTHER LITTLE WRINKLE IN HERE.
CAN YOU JUST MAKE YOUR MIC'S NOT OH YEAH.
UM, THIS WAS A SCHOOL AT ONE TIME.
THERE WAS PROBABLY, I GUESS TODAY'S STANDARDS, I DON'T KNOW, HALF A DOZEN, DOZEN BUSES THAT WOULD BE LINED UP IN FRONT OF THAT.
THEY'D BE OUT THERE IN THE, IN THE TRAFFIC FLOW.
UM, SOME PARENTS DROP THEIR KIDS OFF.
YOU HAVE THOSE CARS GOING IN AND OUT IN THE MORNINGS, SO I'M NOT SO SURE THIS IS THAT BAD.
UM, BUT WITH A SCHOOL THERE, WITH THE BUSINESS THAT WAS IN THERE BEFORE, THERE WAS AN ENGINEERING FIRM IN THERE AND THERE WAS A, AN ACCOUNTING FIRM.
BOTH OF THOSE WERE VERY ACTIVE AND THEY WERE BIG FIRMS AT ONE TIME AND I GUESS THEY WHITTLED DOWN A LITTLE BIT, ALTHOUGH I THINK THE ACCOUNTING FIRM NOW HAS GOT A NEW BUILDING.
UH, IN ANY CASE THEY'VE GOT A BUILDING THERE AND AN OWNER OWNS THIS AND THEY NEED TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT.
SO, UM, WE HAVE TO ADDRESS MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS ON THIS STUFF.
TRAFFIC AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT WERE MENTIONED ARE GOOD POINTS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED, ADDRESSED.
JERRY? UM, I THINK THE ONE, ONE THING I WOULD ADD TO THE POINTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE AND EVERYTHING'S BEEN GREAT POINTS IN TERMS OF WHAT MIGHT MAKE THE PLAN BETTER, WE'VE ALREADY COVERED IS MAYBE WORKING IN THAT DEDICATED PARKING, UM, AND SEGREGATING IT FROM INTERMINGLING IF THAT, IF THIS WERE TO GO FORWARD, UM, I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT TRAFFIC AND THINGS LIKE A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY AND SORT OF ALL THIS DETAILED ANALYSIS ARE ALL GONNA BE PART OF THE NEXT STEP IN A PRELIMINARY PLAN STAGE.
SO, UH, I THINK AS WE'VE COVERED A COUPLE TIMES, YOU KNOW, CONSULTANTS ARE GONNA GET INTO THE DETAILS OF MAKING, UH, STORM WATER WORK AND UH, AND ENGINEERING IT PROPERLY.
SO, UH, A LOT OF GOOD POINTS, UH, BROUGHT UP.
BUT THEY WILL BE ADDRESSED BECAUSE OF SOMEONE SAID IN THE DISCUSSION THEY HAVE TO BE TO COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE IN THE SAL THOUGH.
I MEAN, OTHERWISE THE PROJECT WON'T FLY, SO, UH, IT'S GONNA GET ADDRESSED.
UM, AND UH, I GUESS ONE OTHER THING WE TALKING ABOUT OPEN SPACE, WHETHER IT'S OWNED, LEASED, WHATEVER, IT, IT, IT IS IN THE PLAN.
SO THERE, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S PART OF THE PLAN.
SO I DON'T SEE ANYTHING NEGATIVE WITH THAT AT THIS POINT.
I, AND I DO THINK THAT, UM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A, A NUMBER OF TOWNHOUSES THAT MAYBE NOT EVERYBODY LIKES TO SEE, UM, IT'S BETTER THAN HAVING AN OFFICE USE ON THIS PROPERTY AND SURROUNDED BY RESIDENTIAL.
SO IF I, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, AND WILL ZACH, IF, UM, WHAT, WHAT I'M ASKING FOR NOW WOULD BE A, UM, A, UM, A PROPOSAL FROM SOMEBODY HERE, A RECOMMENDATION TO, UH, AGREE TO THE, UM, UH, TO THE TENTATIVE SKETCH AND PASS IT TO THE SUPERVISORS AT THIS POINT FOR, FOR THEIR PERUSAL, UH, WITHOUT RECOMMENDATION OF YAY OR NA.
IT WOULD BE, UH, WHETHER YOU, THERE'S A MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN AND, BUT WE HAVE THREE OPTIONS THERE.
NO, WE DON'T APPROVE IT OR WE DON'T RECOMMEND IT.
WE DO RECOMMEND IT, OR WE TAKE NO ACTION.
WE COULD TAKE NO ACTION AT THIS POINT.
[01:55:01]
THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS TO TAKE ACTION.UM, IT'S, IT'S, AS WE'VE SAID BEFORE, IT'S A RECOMMENDATION.
IT'S A, YOU PROVIDE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
YOU'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW IT.
YOU'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY, EXTENSIVE OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR PUBLIC COMMENT ON IT.
SO I THINK AT THIS POINT, IF, IF, YOU KNOW, THE BOARD CAN CERTAINLY GO FORWARD, UH, WITH, WITHOUT A RECOMMENDATION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, I WOULD PROBABLY RECOMMEND YOU MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
BUT IT IS NOT REQUIRED FOR THE BOARD TO TAKE ACTION.
SO, UM, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO, UH, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR US TO, OR MAKE A PROPOSAL FOR US TO RECOMMEND THIS TO THE SUPERVISOR OR NOT TO RECOMMEND TO THE SUPERVISORS AT THIS POINT.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A DEAD ISSUE, IT JUST MEANS THAT WE'RE NOT READY YET FOR WHAT WE'VE HEARD.
AM I CORRECT, ZACH? WHAT WE'VE HEARD WE'RE NOT READY TO MAKE A A A A RECOMMENDATION.
I MEAN, SO IF WE SAY NO, THAT DOESN'T MEAN PROJECTS.
WE'RE JUST SAYING WE'RE NOT, WE DON'T KNOW ENOUGH YET TO SAY YES, BUT WE COULD ALSO JUST GO TO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
THE, THE, THE COMMISSION WAS NOT READY TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, WHICH IS THE SAME AS THE YES.
BUT WITH YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY COPY, YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONSIDER THE APPLICATION, CONSIDER THE PLAN, PROVIDE FEEDBACK ON THE PLAN.
I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN COMMENTS THAT JEFF'S BEEN, BEEN COLLECTING, UH, AS TO WHAT THE REPORT TO THE BOARD WOULD BE.
I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
I MEAN, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THAT BOTH JEN AND BRIAN HAVE, HAVE BASICALLY SAID THAT IT COMPLIES WITH THE TENTATIVE SKETCH REQUIREMENTS.
UM, UH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THIS IS JUST TENTATIVE PLAN.
THIS IS NOT, THEY'RE GONNA GO DOWN TO THE COURTHOUSE AND RECORD THE PLANS AND I UNDERSTAND.
THIS IS JUST THE FIRST, MOST BASIC LEVEL OF THE PLANNING PROCESS SAYING THAT THEY, THIS IS THE OVERALL THOUSAND FOOT VIEW OF EVERYTHING.
YEAH, I MEAN, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, IF WE MAKE NO DECISION, WHAT'S GONNA CHANGE? WELL, THERE'S TWO THINGS I SEE CAN CHANGE.
I THINK NUMBER ONE, THEY MEET WITH THE PEOPLE.
I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT MEETING TAKE PLACE.
AND I'D LIKE TO SEE THIS WHOLE, WHO OWNS, WHO'S GONNA TAKE POSITION OF THIS PROPERTY SETTLED TO BEFORE WE LEFT.
THAT'S MY, I I ALSO DON'T THINK THAT THOSE ARE NECESSARILY THINGS THAT WON'T HAPPEN REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR POSITION IS.
AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD BE COMING BACK FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION OF THE TENTATIVE PLAN WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
BUT THAT WOULD BE MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE SITUATION.
I, I, I, I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I, I JUST THINK THOSE ARE TWO THINGS THAT CAN CHANGE.
DID YOU ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, JOE? AND IT'S TWO THINGS THAT CAN'T CHANGE.
NEITHER OF THOSE ISSUES ARE TENTATIVE PLAN REQUIREMENTS.
I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO THE OVERALL PLAN.
AND THEN THE, THE SUPERVISORS ARE ON SOME SORT OF, UH, LEGAL CLOCK ON THEIR OWN, IRRESPECTIVE OF IF WE MAKE A RECOMMENDATION OR NOT.
RIGHT? JEFF WOULD'VE THAT, RIGHT? YES.
UM, WE HAVE AN EXTENSION TO THE END OF AUGUST.
TILL THE END OF AUGUST ON THE MPC CLOCK.
SO, UM, THE, THIS WILL BE ON THE AGENDA REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU DECIDE TONIGHT OR WHAT YOU DO TONIGHT.
THIS WILL, FROM AN ADMINISTRATIVE STANDPOINT, HAS TO BE ON THE BOARD AGENDA FOR THE AUGUST MEETING FOR THEM TO DECIDE, UNLESS THEY GRANT ME A FURTHER EXTENSION, EXCUSE ME.
WHICH IF WE DIDN'T MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, IT WOULD STILL BE ON THE BOARDS.
IT WOULD STILL BE ON THE BOARD OF AGENDA BECAUSE I'M UNDER AN MPC CLOCK REQUIREMENT.
AND IF THE BOARD, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, DIDN'T APPROVE IT, IT WOULD BE, I'M SORRY, IF THEY TOOK NO ACTION, LIKE WE'RE CONTEMPLATING, IT WOULD BE DEEMED APPROVED.
THEY HAVE TO TAKE SOME ACTION.
THEY HAVE TO TAKE, THEY WILL HAVE TO TAKE SOME ACTION, BUT AT BEFORE AUGUST 31ST.
AND THE ONLY GROUNDS THAT THEY HAVE TO NOT, YOU KNOW, NOTWITHSTANDING THE LEASE, WHICH IS A DIFFERENT LEGAL QUESTION TO DISAPPROVE THE PLAN WOULD BE THAT IT'S NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE ORDINANCE.
I I DON'T WANNA GET INTO WHAT THE LEGAL REASONS THAT THEY COULD DENY IT ARE.
THAT'S, I THINK, A QUESTION FOR ZACH AND THE BOARD TO WORK THROUGH, IF THAT WAS WHAT THEY CHOSE TO DO, I, BUT THEY WOULD NEED SOME LEGAL RATIONALE TO DO IT.
IF WE, UM, TAKE EITHER NO ACTION OR, OR WHATEVER ACTION WE TAKE, ARE YOU WILLING TO COME BACK WITH, WITH THE REPORT ON SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT ARE CONCERNED AT THIS POINT? I, I GUESS ON THE SECOND POINT IN PARTICULAR, I, I HEAR YOUR FIRST CONCERN ABOUT MEETING WITH THE NEIGHBORS.
AND, UH, TO THE SOLICITOR'S POINT, WE WOULD MEET WITH THEM REGARDLESS AS TO WHETHER YOU MADE A RECOMMENDATION ON THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN TONIGHT OR NOT.
AND ULTIMATELY THAT WOULD HAPPEN BEFORE WE GOT TO PRELIMINARY LAND DEVELOPMENT.
SO I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE WOULD BE NECESSARILY ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAT WOULD HAPPEN THERE, BUT CERTAINLY WE WERE WILLING TO MEET WITH THEM ON THE SECOND
[02:00:01]
POINT.WE WOULD HAVE, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THAT.
THERE'S NO WAY FOR ME TO KNOW THAT UNLESS YOU TELL ME.
THAT, HEY, WE MET WITH THE COMMITTEE AND THEY, WE AGREED TO THIS.
THE SECOND POINT THOUGH, I THINK IS, IS MORE COMPLICATED BECAUSE ULTIMATELY WILL BE UP TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WHETHER THEY WOULD WANT TO ACCEPT DEDICATION OR NOT.
SO I CAN THROW UP THE SAME OPTIONS THAT I THREW OUT LAST TIME OR THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT.
I SHOULD SAY, IF I COME BACK AGAIN, I'LL SAY, WELL, HERE ARE THE THREE OPTIONS.
BUT UNTIL WE GET TO A PUBLIC MEETING WHERE THEY WOULD ACTUALLY VOTE AND MAKE A DECISION ON THAT, I CAN'T GIVE YOU AN ANSWER ON THAT POINT, THAT POINT.
I, I, UNFORTUNATELY, I CANNOT CONTROL THAT POINT.
I JUST WANT TO, I JUST WOULD LIKE, AND I'M NOT SAYING, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
LIKE YOU SAY, IT'S A BOARD DECISION.
BUT I WOULD JUST LIKE TO HAVE MORE CLARITY IN THAT AREA.
WELL, I, I, I THINK IT'S ABOUT AS CLEAR AS IT'S GOING TO GET IN TERMS OF, THEY'RE SAYING THAT THEY'RE WILLING TO DEDICATE TO THE TOWNSHIP, THE TOWNSHIP TYPICALLY NOT UNTIL, YOU KNOW, YOU GET REALLY THE FINAL PLAN APPROVAL, EVEN AFTER FINAL PLAN APPROVAL MAKES THE DECISION OF WHETHER OR NOT TO ACCEPT DEDICATION.
I'M JUST, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S ANY WAY THAT GETS ANY MORE CLEAR BEFORE WE GET A LOT FURTHER DOWN TO THE PROCESS.
I THINK, I THINK THE POINT IS, IS WE CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE SUPERVISORS THAT WE, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY SEEN WITH THE, WITH THIS OPEN SPACE PLAN.
AND, UM, GIVEN THAT WE HAVE THE TRAFFIC ISSUES, THE FLOODPLAIN ISSUES NEED TO MEET WITH THE, THE, UH, RESIDENTS.
UH, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS THEY'VE, UH, SATISFIED THE REQUIREMENTS FOR A TENTATIVE PLAN, AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SAYING WITH CONDITIONS, I UNDERSTAND, LET'S MOVE FORWARD.
I NEED SOMEBODY TO MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION.
THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I AM RIGHT NOW.
I MEAN, THERE ARE LOTS OF ISSUES HERE.
I MEAN, PLEASE DON'T MISUNDERSTAND ME, BUT, UM, I THINK ZACH'S TRYING TO POINT US IN THE DIRECTION OF SAYING WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE RESPONSIBLE TO MAKE SOME KIND OF A RECOMMENDATION, EITHER YES OR NO.
UH, MY, IN MY OPINION, THAT'S YOUR OPINION.
THAT YOUR BE I'M NOT, I'M NOT, I'M, I UNDERSTAND THAT, CONSIDERING THAT WE WERE AT THE TENTATIVE BUT DEPENDENT, I'M WILLING TO SAY, WE COULD SAY NO SURE.
AT THIS POINT, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
YOU KNOW, UNTIL WE GET SOME MORE KNOWLEDGE OF THIS APPROACH, IS WHAT I'M SAYING.
AND I, AND YOU, YOU KNOW, I, THAT'S JUST THE WAY I'M LOOKING AT IT.
I MEAN, WE HAVE OUR PARTS AND RECREATION DIRECTOR SITTING OVER HERE AND SHE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THIS, BUT TO THE PARK.
SHE SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN THIS, IN SOMETHING.
WELL, I, SO I JUST, TO BE FAIR, I, I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE HAS BEEN SOME COMMUNICATION.
OKAY, WELL, WE DON'T KNOW THAT SOMEBODY TO TELL US THAT THING.
SOMEBODY SHOULD SAY, HEY, YEAH, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS, WE'RE INTERESTED IN IT, WE'RE NOT INTERESTED IN IT.
I MEAN, WE SHOULD KNOW THAT STUFF BEFORE WE'RE, WE'RE BEING ASKED TO TELL THE BOARD.
WE RECOMMEND THIS, BUT WE DON'T KNOW ALL THE KNOWLEDGE FOR IT.
SO AGAIN, THIS IS THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS.
AND THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER TENDRILS THROUGHOUT THE TOWNSHIP THAT I THINK ARE INVOLVED IN WORKING ON THIS.
AND RIGHT NOW THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU OR DO THEY OR DON'T THEY MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR TENTATIVE APPROVAL? WE HAVE JEN AND BRIAN BOTH SAYING THAT AS FAR AS THE RECOMMENDATION, AS FAR AS THE REQUIREMENTS IN THE ORDINANCES REGARDING TENTATIVE PLAN REQUIREMENTS, THEY HAVE NO ISSUES WITH ANY OF THOSE THINGS.
AND THEY THINK THAT THEY'VE MET.
SO THIS IS A RECOMME, A RECOMME BODY.
I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, BUT THE BOARD DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO GO ALONG WITH THAT
WELL, I, AND I WANNA MAKE SURE THEY, THE BOARD, I UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE I'M, I'M LEANING THAT WAY, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE THE OTHER PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU ASKED, ASKING US TO MAKE HER, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE IT WORK.
I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR NINE YEARS.
MANY OF THESE STUDENTS I'VE HEARD JOE TELL US, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING IF YOU DON'T WANT.
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO VOTE ON IT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO VOTE.
I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT'S CLEAR.
THAT IS NOT GOING TO STOP THE TRAIN MOVING FORWARD.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT LOOK AT, I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE THE TRAIN HAS ALL THE PASSENGERS ON BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD.
ALRIGHT, SO DOES ANYONE WANNA MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATION OR A PROPOSAL TOWARD THIS NEXT? I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE EXACT LANGUAGE SHOULD BE BASED ON ALL THE DISCUSSION WE HAD, BUT, UM, I, I'M, I'M HAPPY TO FRAME THE MOTION.
IF YOU WANT TO INDICATE WHICH DIRECTION YOU WANT THE MOTION TO GO, I CAN THEN FRAME THE MOTION.
YOU CAN ADOPT WHAT I FRAME AS THE MOTION, AND THEN YOU CAN VOTE ON IT BASED ON THE FACT THAT WHAT I'VE HEARD THIS COM PROPOSAL COMPLIES WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF A TENTATIVE PLAN AND UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S GONNA GO THROUGH MORE, UH, RIGOR.
I'D RECOMMEND THAT WE, WE APPROVE IT.
WE HAVE TO PUT THAT, YOU HAVE TO PUT THAT IN THE FORM OF A MOTION.
[02:05:01]
HE WOULD.WELL, BUT HE CAN DO IT IF HE WANTS IT.
I'M JUST SAYING, IF YOU WANT TO DEFER TO ZACH, THAT'S FINE.
I WOULD BECAUSE HE'LL DO A BETTER JOB.
THE PROPOSED MOTION IS THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MOVES TO RECOMMEND TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED PLAN.
THE MOTION WOULD BE THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDS THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS GRANT TENTATIVE PLAN APPROVAL FOR THE PROJECT.
CAN I ALSO, WE DIDN'T HAVE A TAIL TO IT.
CAN WE, CAN WE CAVEAT BY SAYING, AND AS PART OF THAT, WE RECOMMEND THAT THE SUPERVISORS, UH, APPROVE THE CONCEPT, IF YOU WILL, OF THE OPEN SPACE RECOMMENDATIONS AS PROPOSED BY THE DEVELOPER.
IS THAT, IF, IF, IF THAT'S HOW YOU'D LIKE TO AMEND THE MOTION, JEFF CAN CAPTURE THAT IN THE MINUTES.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO STATE THAT AGAIN.
BUT I THINK WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING IS, OH, I'M SAYING YOU SAY YES OR NO TO, AS ZACH SAID, THAT WE, HE'S RECOMMENDING THAT WE APPROVE THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN.
NO, HE'S, HE'S GIVEN US A MOTION.
HE'S NOT RECOMMENDING TO APPROVE, NO, I'M SORRY.
A MOTION TO APPROVE THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN AND AT THE SAME TIME, RECOMMEND TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AS PART OF THAT PLAN THAT THEY VERY SERIOUSLY CONSIDER ACQUIRING FOR WHATEVER MEANS THE OPEN SPACE, UH, PROPOSAL AS PROVIDED BY THE DEVELOPER.
THEY REC YOU RECOMMEND ACCEPTING DEDICATION OF THE OPEN SPACE AREA IF APPROVAL, IF THE PROJECT IS APPROVED.
IF EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS IT, I'LL TAKE A SECOND.
I'LL SECOND IT, THEN I'LL TAKE THE VOTE AND WE'LL DO IT.
I TAKE A VOTE AND I'LL START, I SAY, I'M GONNA VOTE.
SO WE'VE GOT THREE YESES AND TWO NOS.
SO AT THIS POINT, THE MOTION PASSES.
I'M NOT GOING, WE'RE NOT HAVE ANY MORE.
YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT WE JUST DID? AN OPINION? NO, I'M DONE.
DO YOU WANT TO ASK A QUESTION? WHAT WE JUST DID? I'LL TAKE THAT.
BUT IF YOU WANNA MAKE AN OPINION ABOUT, ABOUT THE PROJECT, I'M NOT GONNA SOLUTION.
YOU TALKED TO DEVELOPMENT SOLUTIONS.
THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I HOPE'S GONNA HAPPEN.
WE TALKED TO, YOU KNOW, ALLISON AND THE DEVELOPER.
ALRIGHT, LET'S MOVE TO THE NEXT THING.
'CAUSE WE'VE, UM, REALLY, WE REALLY, UH, KILLED OUR, OUR AGENDA HERE, ALLISON, IS THAT YOU? IT'S ME, ROGER.
YES, WE DID TEND TO, WE AGREE TO THIS ONE, I BELIEVE.
SO THIS ONE, THIS ONE YOU GUYS, UH, I KNOW WE DO HAVE ONE.
HAVE YOU BEEN HERE SINCE WE'VE BEEN HERE? I DIDN'T THINK SO.
OKAY, SO I, I DO WANNA GIVE LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND.
I KNOW MR. PETERS, EVEN IF HE WASN'T ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS SAT THROUGH A LOT OF THE MEETINGS ON THIS, SO HE WAS FAMILIAR WITH IT.
UM, BUT I JUST, I'LL GIVE BRIEF BACKGROUND AND I KNOW WE HAVE SOME FOLKS THAT ARE STILL HERE AS WELL.
SO THIS PARTICULAR SITE IS RIGHT NEXT TO THE TOWNSHIP BUILDING AS EVERYONE KNOWS IT WAS FORMERLY USED.
UM, IT'S IMPROVED WITH AN OFFICE BUILDING IN A VERY LARGE PARKING FIELD.
UM, IT WAS, UH, USED BY QUEST AS 52ND.
WE STILL HAVE A MEETING GOING ON, SO I NEED YOU TO PLEASE BE QUIET.
AND ALLISON, IF I CAN INTERRUPT.
DOES ANYBODY UP HERE NEED OF WATER? YES, I, YEAH, I WAS GONNA SAY, DO YOU NEED A BREAK? YOU DO A BREAK? OKAY.
NO, NO, IT'S ALL, I MEAN, IT'S, WE NOT AGENDA ITEM.
UM, SO, SO THIS SITE, UM, EXCUSE ME, ALLISON.
BOARD IS ASKING FOR FIVE MINUTES.
I CALL THE MEETING BACK INTO ORDER.
THANK YOU FOR EVERYBODY FOR LETTING US HAVE FIVE MINUTES.
UM, SO ALLISON, YOU'RE BACK UP.
UM, SO SWING OFF LIKE LAST NIGHT'S GAME.
YOU'RE THE SWING OFF STATE RIGHT NOW.
WE'LL DO THIS IN THREE MINUTES.
UM, I STILL, I HAVE THE SAME FOLKS WITH ME FOR THIS PROJECT, BUT WE ALSO HAVE OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER GREG RICHARDSON FROM TRAFFIC PLANNING DESIGN AND DENNIS KERICK WHO IS,
[02:10:01]
UM, FROM THE CIVIL ENGINEER'S OFFICE.UM, AS WE ARE AT THE PRELIMINARY PLAN STAGE ON THIS, WE DO HAVE CIVIL AND TRAFFIC THAT HAVE BEEN PREPARED FOR THE SITE.
UM, THIS PARTICULAR SITE, LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER, IS RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO THE TOWN BUILDING.
UM, IT'S CURRENTLY IMPROVED WITH, UM, AN OFFICE BUILDING THAT WAS HISTORICALLY USED BY QUEST AS OFFICE.
THIS WAS THEIR, YOU KNOW, HEADQUARTERS TYPE OF BUILDING.
THIS WASN'T, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU GO GET YOUR BLOOD DRAWN ON A REGULAR BASIS.
UM, THERE ARE, THERE IS A LARGE PARKING FIELD, THERE'S PARKING IN THE FRONT, THERE'S PARKING IN THE REAR.
THE SITE IS ACTUALLY COMPLI COMPRISED OF THREE DIFFERENT PARCELS TODAY, WHICH IS SORT OF ODD.
BUT THAT IS THE CASE, ALTHOUGH IT WAS HISTORICALLY APPROVED AND OPERATED TOGETHER.
UM, WE'RE HERE TONIGHT REGARDING THE PRELIMINARY PLAN FOR, UM, THE PROPOSAL ON THE SITE.
THIS SITE WAS REZONED TO COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER, UH, BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
PREVIOUSLY IT WAS ZONED FOR THE SPECIFIC USE THAT WAS ON THE SITE AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL YOU COULD DO ON THE SITE.
UH, WE RECEIVED TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN APPROVAL BACK IN OCTOBER OF 2024 AND WE FILED OUR PRELIMINARY LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN APPLICATION IN DECEMBER OF 2024, WHICH IS BEFORE YOU TONIGHT.
UM, IN APRIL OF THIS YEAR, WE FILED A MINOR SUBDIVISION PLAN.
SO THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS TECHNICALLY IN FRONT OF YOU.
THE MINOR SUBDIVISION PLAN WILL CONSOLIDATE THE THREE LOTS ON THE PROPERTY AND THEN IT WOULD SUBDIVIDE THE PROPERTY INTO TWO LOTS EVEN THOUGH THE PLAN ITSELF IS STILL BEING DEVELOPED ON A TRACK WIDE BASIS.
THE REASON FOR THE MINOR SUBDIVISION PLAN IS THAT ULTIMATELY BECAUSE THIS IS PARTIALLY RESIDENTIAL AND PARTIALLY COMMERCIAL, THERE WOULD BE AN HOA ASSOCIATED WITH THE RESIDENTIAL.
WE NEED TO CREATE A PIECE OF PROPERTY SO WE CAN CREATE THAT HOA WHILE KEEPING, YOU KNOW, THE RE THE RETAIL COMMERCIAL SEPARATE.
IT GETS A LITTLE COMPLICATED TO HAVE THAT ALL PART OF AN HOA.
SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE DOING THAT.
THE REASON IT'S A SEPARATE PLAN IN FRONT OF YOU IS THAT GIVEN MY RECENT EXPERIENCE AND OTHERS RECENT EXPERIENCE IS REALLY MORE A FUNCTION OF YOUR RECORDER OF DEEDS OFFICE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
THEY LIKE TO SEE THAT AS A SEPARATE PLAN THAT THEY CAN GET ON RECORD FIRST DEAL WITH, DEAL WITH ALL THE PARCEL CONSOLIDATION.
THIS IS VERY TECHNICAL, BUT THAT'S THE REASON WE'RE DOING IT.
THEY SEE THAT FIRST AND THEN WE PUT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN ON SECOND RATHER THAN SUBSUMING IT ALL TOGETHER.
SO IT IS ALL TIED TO THE SITE.
BUT WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE MINOR SUBDIVISION PLAN, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE WHAT'S ON THE PROPERTY TODAY ON THAT PLAN BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO GO, IT WOULD GO ON RECORD FIRST, BUT THE REASON THAT PLAN IS BEING CREATED IS FOR THE SEPARATION OF RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL.
IS THAT SOMETHING WE JUST FOUND OUT OR IS THAT YOU BROUGHT UP IN THE PAST, I WOULD SAY FIVE YEARS.
I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THESE THAT THE RECORDER OF DEEDS GETS LIKE FRAZZLED AND CRAZY WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO LITERALLY CONSOLIDATE PIECES OF PROPERTY AND THEN SUBDIVIDE THEM AT THE SAME TIME.
IF YOU SUBSUME THAT INTO THEIR PLAN ACT AND PROBABLY ATTEST TO THIS TOO, THEY JUST, THEY CAN'T HANDLE IT.
SO IT REALLY JUST DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
SO THEY WANT US TO HANDLE IT THAT YOU YEAH, SO THEY WANT YOU TO HANDLE IT.
I MEAN, WE DID RUN INTO A LITTLE BIT OF THIS ISSUE, IF YOU REMEMBER WITH UM YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.
UH, WITH THE, THE SHOP CENTER PROVIDENCE, WITH THE LIDLE SUBDIVISION, UM, WITH THE LIDLE SHOPPING CENTER, AFTER THEY WERE ALL DONE, THEY HAD TO GO BACK AND DO A SUBDIVISION BECAUSE LIDLE WANTED TO KEEP THEIR OWN PIECE.
SO THAT IT WAS MOSTLY ADMINISTRATIVE.
THAT WAS A LITTLE DIFFERENT 'CAUSE LIDLE WANTED TO OWN PIECE AND, AND THIS IS ALSO GONNA BE UNDER GENERALLY ONE OWNERSHIP, BUT IT WAS ALSO DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT WAS BOTH COMMERCIAL VERSUS RIGHT.
AND WHAT THIS WILL DO IS IT WILL ALLOW THE HOA TO HAVE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HOA PROPERTY.
THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTY AND COMMERCIAL.
SO LIKE THE HOA WON'T GET TO GO TO THE COMMERCIALS AND SAY, WELL YOU NEED TO FIX THIS ROAD IN OUR DEVELOPMENT.
SO THAT'S, IT'S PRIMARILY A FUNCTION OF THAT.
BUT IN TERMS OF WHY WE'RE NOT SUBSUMING IT IN THIS PLAN SET AND DOING IT SEPARATELY, IT'S REALLY FOR THE RECORDER OF DEEDS AND THE ASSESSMENT OFFICE.
SO WE WOULD'VE BEEN SEEKING IT ANYWAY.
TECHNICALLY WE ARE NOT SEEKING ANY WAIVER RELIEF FOR THE MINOR SUBDIVISION PLAN.
THE REVIEW LETTERS THAT YOU HAVE ARE SLIGHTLY CONFUSING BECAUSE THEY REFERENCE THE WAIVER LETTER ON BOTH REVIEW LETTERS, BUT THE WAIVERS TECHNICALLY ARE ONLY RELATED TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
AND WE'LL GO THROUGH THEM TONIGHT.
BUT I DID WANT TO CLARIFY THAT THE SUBDIVISION PLAN ITSELF DOES NOT NEED ANY WAIVERS.
UM, SO THE SITE ITSELF, UM, IS ON THE CORNER OF BLACKROCK ROCK IN 29.
UM, WE ARE PROPOSING CERTAIN TRAFFIC IMPROVEMENTS, WHICH I CAN HAVE GREG RICHARDSON GIVE YOU A VERY BRIEF OVERVIEW OF.
UM, THE SITE IS CURRENTLY COMPRISED OR WOULD BE COMPRISED OF SEVERAL DIFFERENT COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS CONTAINING A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT RETAIL AND OTHER COMMERCIAL USES THAT ARE PERMITTED IN THE DISTRICT.
UM, THERE IS A GROCER ANCHOR TENANT PROPOSED ON THE SITE,
[02:15:01]
UM, FROM WHEN YOU SAW THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN FOR THE PROPERTY.THERE IS A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE, I WOULD SAY OF THE, THE, THE SET OF SPACES THAT ARE CLOSEST TO THE CORNER OF BLACKROCK AND 29.
YOUR ORDINANCE REQUIRES A LARGER AREA OF ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY AT THAT INTERSECTION THAN ALONG THE REST OF BLACKROCK AND UH, SOUTH COLLEGEVILLE ROAD.
SO WE ARE PROVIDING THE REQUIRED ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY FOR THE SITE.
BUT THAT DID PUSH THINGS BACK A LITTLE BIT INTO THE SITE AT THAT CORNER.
SO IT LOOKS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN IT DID A TENTATIVE SKETCH.
GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE REMAINDER OF THE SITE, UM, STILL LAYS OUT THE SAME WAY.
UM, IN THE, IN THE REAR, THE PORTION CLOSE ON THE SCREEN, THE TOP OF YOUR SCREEN, WHICH WOULD BE THE NORTH CLOSE NORTH WEST ISH CLOSEST TO THE, TO THE TOWNSHIP, UM, PROPERTY IS, UH, STACKED TOWN HOMES, WHICH I KNOW WE DISCUSSED BEFORE IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY ARE, WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE, HOW THEY WORK, UM, AND ALL THAT STUFF.
AND JUST TO REMIND EVERYONE, THERE IS AN EXISTING STONE HOUSE ON THE PROPERTY THAT IS BEING RETAINED.
THAT WOULD BE ON THE PORTION THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE HO A'S PROPERTY.
THAT WAS GONNA BE MY QUESTION.
SO THAT, THAT THE OLD STONE HOUSE WILL GO WITH THE, WITH THE HOA, THE HOA, HOWEVER THERE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S, IT WAS PROPOSED THAT THAT WOULD BE A HE'S LOOKING TO PUT A BUSINESS IN.
YEAH, THERE ARE CERTAIN USES THAT ARE PERMITTED IN IT UNDER AN HOA YOU CAN HAVE NON-RESIDENTIAL USES.
SO ESSENTIALLY THIS WOULD BE A UNIT IN THE HOA, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER UNIT, IT JUST WOULD POTENTIALLY BE A COMMERCIAL UNIT.
WE'RE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THAT USE.
I MEAN ULTIMATELY WE HAVE TO ADHERE TO WHAT'S PERMITTED IN THE DISTRICT FOR THAT PARTICULAR HOUSE.
THAT HOUSE CAN'T HAVE EVERY SINGLE USE THAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE ON THE REST OF THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.
BUT UM, AND THEN IT WOULD END UP BEING A UNIT.
I MEAN, AND IT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE OF WHERE IT'S LOCATED.
IT'LL BE USING THAT PORTION OF THE ROAD NETWORK.
THE OTHER THING I'LL SAY IS EVEN THOUGH WE WOULD HAVE TWO SEPARATE OWNERSHIPS, THERE WILL BE CROSS EASEMENTS AND CROSS SHARING AS IT RELATES TO, UM, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN SHARED FACILITIES IN THE SITE.
UM, STORM WATER MANAGEMENT, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
THERE WILL BE AN EXTENSIVE CROSS EASEMENT AGREEMENT AS WELL.
AND YOU ARE TAKING THE RESPONSIBILITY TO RESTORE THAT HOUSE.
THAT IS PART OF THE, THE PLAN AS YOU MIGHT REMEMBER FROM WHEN YOU GUYS FIRST CAME TO US.
THAT'S SORT OF A PET PROJECT FOR ME.
I WANT THAT HOUSE TO REMAIN AND BE SOMETHING SOME, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DO WITH IT ACTUALLY, AS LONG AS IT REMAINS EXACTLY.
AND IT IT IS REMAIN REMAINS IT IS RESTORED.
WELL SURE IT'S GONNA SIT THERE AND IT CAN'T BE USED THE WAY IT'S NOW THAT'S SAY, SO THEY'RE TAKING RESPONSIBILITY SAID BEFORE THEY WANT.
BUT IT WILL BE PART OF THE HOA.
YEAH, IT'LL BE PART OF THE HOA AND, AND FRANKLY WHERE IT'S LOCATED, THAT REALLY IS SORT OF THE GATEWAY TO THE RESIDENTIAL.
SO CERTAINLY WE'RE GOING TO WANT IT TO LOOK NICE AT THAT ENTRANCE.
SO TO SORT OF MOVE TO THAT POINT, NEXT, THERE ARE THREE ACCESS POINTS TO THE SITE, UM, TO, ON BLACKROCK, ONE ON 29, THE ONE ON 29.
IT'S CURRENTLY SIGNALED AND, UM, IT, IT, IT REQUIRE IT, UH, THAT IS AT DOVER ON BOULEVARD.
BUT YOU KNOW, HE'S, WE'VE ALREADY SUBMITTED PLANS AND UH, TRAFFIC STUDY DEPEND DOT, SO THAT'S UNDER REVIEW ALSO.
BRIAN HAS REVIEWED EVERYTHING AS WELL.
SO HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.
UM, ALSO, STORM WATER MANAGEMENT WE'VE SUBMITTED FOR OUR MPDS PERMIT.
UM, JEN IS DOING TECHNICAL REVIEW ON THE PLANS.
UM, WE DO HAVE A, UM, REVIEW LETTER FOR THE PRELIMINARY PLAN.
AND I WILL SAY IT LOOKS LONG, IT PROBABLY LOOKS LONGER THAN WHAT YOU WERE USED TO SEEING IN THE PAST BECAUSE NOW WE'RE COMBINING EVERYTHING INTO ONE LETTER INSTEAD OF HAVING SEPARATE LETTERS.
SO WE HAVE WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH,
SO WE NOW HAVE IN THE FRONT WE HAVE WHAT I'LL CALL OUR ZONING AND YOU KNOW WHAT I'LL CALL REGULAR ZONING AND ALDO COMMENTS.
UM, THE, THERE'S A SECTION ON RETAINING WALLS IN HERE, WHICH WE UNDERSTAND THAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WILL BE NEEDED AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THAT MORE EXTENSIVELY UPFRONT.
AND WE ARE ABLE TO COMPLY WITH THAT.
THE SANITARY SEWER COMMENTS, WHICH ALSO USED TO ALWAYS BE ISSUED IN A SEPARATE LETTER, MOST OF WHICH ARE TECHNICAL DESIGN ITEMS, UM, ARE IN THIS LETTER STORM WATER MANAGEMENT.
THERE'S LEGAL DESCRIPTION REVIEW.
SO WE'RE WAY AHEAD OF THE GAME HERE.
'CAUSE USUALLY THAT'S NOT EVEN DONE UNTIL AFTER THE FINAL PLAN IS APPROVED.
UM, AND THEN WE HAVE OUR TRAFFIC COMMENTS IN HERE AS WELL.
SO EVERYTHING IS COMBINED INTO THE SWAN LETTER.
UM, I WOULD SAY IN TERMS OF THE ITEMS THAT WE WOULD WANT TO, THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SPECIFICALLY COMMENT TO YOU ON, UM, THERE, THERE ARE FOUR WAIVERS OR REQUESTING, AND I CAN HAVE DENNIS RUN THROUGH THOSE.
THERE WAS A LITTLE CONFUSION ABOUT LOADING AREAS.
[02:20:01]
HAVE A REQUIREMENT IN YOUR ZONING DISTRICT ABOUT LOADING.OUR GROCER TENANT HAS A MORE EXTENSIVE LOADING AREA SHOWN ON THE SITE FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.
THE ORDINANCE SAYS THAT IF YOU HAVE A RETAIL USE THAT'S OVER 3000 SQUARE FEET, YOU SHOULD HAVE A LOADING AREA SOMEWHERE.
WE ARE IN EXCESS OF THE PARKING REQUIREMENT ON THE SITE.
SO WE WILL BE ABLE TO COMPLY FOR THOSE USERS.
WE'LL BE ABLE TO DESIGNATE LOADING AREAS ON THE SITE.
IT, IT'S NOT A LOADING DOCK PER SE, BUT AREAS FOR LOADING.
UM, SO WE'RE ABLE TO COMPLY WITH THAT COMMENT.
UM, AND THEN I THINK THE REST OF THIS, A LOT OF, I, IT MAKES SENSE FOR US TO GO THROUGH THE WAIVERS.
I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.
UM, I WILL ALSO NOTE THERE IS A TOT LOT SHOWN, WHICH I DON'T THINK WE HAD ON THERE.
A TENTATIVE SKETCH FOR THE RESIDENTIAL.
I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE TALKED ABOUT AT TENTATIVE SKETCH AND IT WAS NOT ON THERE AND WE HAVEN'T ADDED THAT.
I'M TRYING TO BE SORT OF A BREACH VERSION JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT TIME IT'S
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ADDRESSED THIS OR NOT NOW.
IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, IN MY RECOLLECTION OF THE PRELIMINARY AND BEFORE THE PRELIMINARY WAS THAT SOME OF THESE RETAIL SPACES NOW IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE GOT MULTIPLE RETAIL SPACES IN A BUILDING.
THAT THAT WAS, IS THAT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE DOING THOUGH? YES.
I THOUGHT THE ONE WAS GONNA BE A BANK OR YOU PROPOSED IT AS A BANK.
WELL THERE, THERE'S STILL A, A BUILDING ON THE END THAT'S PROPOSED AS A, LIKE A SINGLE USER IN, IN THE CORNER ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
BUT THE ONE UP FRONT I THOUGHT WAS GONNA BE A RESTAURANT THAT, WELL THAT'S THE AREA I WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT HAD TO CHANGE.
WE HAD TO PULL EVERYTHING BACK BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE ADDITIONAL RIGHT OF WAY IS.
SO IT IMPACTED THE CONFIGURATION OF THAT BUILDING.
WE CAN'T HAVE IT SORT OF BE THAT CORNER PIECE, BUT CERTAINLY THERE'S STILL MARKETING TO RESTAURANTS.
THIS IS JUST SORT OF, IT IS A RESTAURANT.
IT'S STILL A RESTAURANT, BUT IT'S NOT ONE RESTAURANT.
NOW YOU'RE LOOKING AT MULTIPLE.
YEAH, THERE'S GONNA BE MULTIPLE RESTAURANTS HERE.
COULD BE MULTIPLE RESTAURANTS.
BUT, BUT SPECIFICALLY, YEAH, THERE WAS, THERE WAS MORE OF A, IT WAS CONFIGURED A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS GETTING AT.
WE HAD TO PULL EVERYTHING BACK 'CAUSE OF THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY IN THAT AREA.
BUT THERE WILL STILL BE RESTAURANTS.
I CAN SHOW YOU TOO IF YOU WANT THAT IMAGINING.
I THOUGHT IT WAS, I THOUGHT SOMEONE SAID IT WAS LOST.
THE LINES THAT SHOW THE DIFFERENT BOXES ARE, ARE SOMEWHAT ARBITRARY.
BECAUSE IT, IT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHAT RENTERS THEY GET.
THEY COULD TAKE TWO, SOMEBODY COULD TAKE TWO OF ABSOLUTELY.
IF YOU LOOK AT, I JUST REMEMBER I THOUGHT IT WAS ONE SPACE AND SOMETIMES IT MAY HAVE BEEN SHOWN THAT WAY OF JUST, THAT'S WHERE I RECOLLECT, RIGHT.
I JUST REC, I I I REMEMBER THAT BEING TOLD TO US IN PRELIMINARY OR BEFORE THAT THIS WAS GONNA BE A ONE SPACE LIKE A RESTAURANT.
LIKE A HIGHER END RESTAURANT, YOU KNOW, SO THIS NOT A LITTLE COFFEE SHOP AND A CREAM STORE.
THAT, THAT IS A, UH, A FULL SERVICE RESTAURANT.
AND THIS SPACE RIGHT HERE IS ALSO A FULL SERVICE RESTAURANT.
I JUST, I'LL SAY CONSISTENT, CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE'VE DISCUSSED DURING THE, THE PREVIOUS HEARINGS.
BUT MY RECOLLECTION OR MY WAS THAT IT WAS GONNA BE LIKE, THAT BUILDING WAS GONNA BE LIKE A CAPITAL GRILL ALL BY ITSELF.
CAPITAL GRILL, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
YOU'RE GETTING, YOU'RE GETTING WARM.
IT'S THAT, IT'S THAT THEMSELVES.
RIGHT? THEY'RE NOT IN WITH THE ICE CREAM STORE AND THE CHINESE RESTAURANT.
BUT THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT THAT BUILT THAT SPACE WAS GONNA BE, I DON'T CARE IF IT'S A CAPITAL GRILL OR IF IT'S CHRIS'S, I DON'T CARE.
I I'M JUST SAYING THAT WAS MY ID FAKE
I WILL SAY THAT THAT, AND I PUT THIS IN MY COVER MEMO, THE PROPERTY TO THE LOWER RIGHT.
IF YOU COULD SHOW WHICH ONE THAT IS.
YEAH, THAT WAS WHAT I, WHERE I WAS GOING.
YEAH, I WAS GONNA SAY THAT THAT IS ALSO A SINGLE USER.
SO THAT WAS THE OTHER, SINCE HE WAS ASKING ABOUT RE TOM WAS ASKING ABOUT RESTAURANTS FIRST.
UM, YEAH, SO ESSENTIALLY ON, JUST TO FINISH THIS POINT, ORIGINALLY THIS, YOU KNOW, WE HAD SORT OF A DIFFERENT FEATURE ON THE END OF THAT.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO IS WE HAD TO PULL THIS ALL BACK THE ULTIMATE RIGHT AWAY.
SO THERE'S STILL A RESTAURANT PROPOSED.
IT'S JUST NOT GONNA LOOK EXACTLY LIKE WE SHOWED IT 'CAUSE WE CAN'T DO IT ANYMORE.
AND LIKE AS, LIKE JEFF SAID, IF SOMEBODY WANTED THREE OF THOSE FACES, YOU'D YOU
LIKE EXACTLY WHATEVER THEY WANT.
UM, SO THERE'S A, THERE'S A VET HOSPITAL I DIDN'T WANT.
SO THAT, SO IN THIS CORNER, UM, THERE WOULD, THERE'S A VETERINARY, IT'S JUST, IT'S EMERGENCY SO IT'S NOT YOUR TRADITIONAL, EVERYONE'S COMING IN FOR THEIR VACCINES OR WHATEVER.
BUT IT WOULD OPERATE AS UM, YOU KNOW, VETERINARY EMERGENCY AS OVER BUILDING AND THAT, THAT'S TAKING THE WHOLE BUILDING IN THAT CORNER.
[02:25:01]
AND THAT ONE IS KNOWN.THAT'S CALLED VETERINARY EMERGENCY GROUP.
WELL, DAVE DAVE'S HERE, HE'S LISTENING.
UM, SO IN TERMS OF THE REST OF THE SITE, AGAIN, WE STILL HAVE LIKE YOUR, THE, THE ANCHOR TENANT FOR THE GROCERS OVER HERE.
THERE WAS ALWAYS IN LINE RETAIL SHOWN THERE, UM, OVER HERE IN VARIOUS ITERATIONS OF THE PLAN.
AND I, I SORT OF LOST TRACK 'CAUSE WE HAD SEVERAL AS WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE TENTATIVE SKETCH AND PRELIMINARY PLAN REVIEW.
BUT AT ONE TIME WE WERE SHOWING A DAYCARE OVER HERE THAT DAYCARE IS NO LONGER PART, IS NO LONGER COMING TO THE SITE.
SO THIS HAS BEEN CONVERTED BACK TO WHAT I'LL CALL MORE TRADITIONAL RETAIL SPACE ON THAT PARTICULAR SECTION.
ARE ANY OF THE RETAIL UNITS CAPABLE OF HAVING A DRIVE THROUGH PUT PUT IN? OR ARE THEY PROPOSING A DRIVE THROUGH LIKE AN MCDONALD DRIVE THROUGH THING? WELL, I, I JUST, I DON'T KNOW.
AND UM, WHAT WE DISCUSSED DURING THE REZONING PROCESS IS THAT, UH, THERE WAS A CONCERN, UM, BY THE BOARD THAT THEY DID NOT WANNA SEE, UM, WHAT YOU WOULD CALL LIKE YOUR TRADITIONAL FAST FOOD HERE.
SO YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO SOMETHING MORE UPSCALE THAT'S FAST CASUAL.
AND THERE WAS ACTUALLY A DEFINITION CREATED TO ADDRESS THAT CONCERN THAT'S IN THE ORDINANCE TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM WHAT YOU WOULD THINK OF AS YOUR TRADITIONAL FAST FOOD RESTAURANT.
THIS PLANT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WHAT WE SAW BEFORE.
IF IT REALLY HAS CHANGED A LOT.
UM, AND THAT, I GUESS THAT'S ALWAYS PART OF, THAT'S WHY WHEN YOU GET TO FULL ENGINEERING THINGS CHANGE.
BUT, UM, SOME OF THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS HAS SORT OF, THIS HAS CHANGED SEVERAL DIFFERENT TIMES JUST BETWEEN CIRCULATION COMMENTS FROM YOUR FIRE MARSHAL, MAKING SURE YOU HAVE CIRCULATION THROUGH ALL OF THIS, UH, MAKING SURE THERE'S ADEQUATE EMERGENCY ACCESS THROUGH THE SITE.
UM, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO CREATE SOME STREET SCAPE ALONG THOSE UNITS.
SO THAT, THAT DEFINITELY CHANGED FROM WHAT YOU SAW ORIGINALLY.
IS IT STILL ONE AND A HALF HOUSES IN ONE FOOTPRINT? IT'S ONE AND A HALF HOUSES IN ONE.
I MEAN, IT'S TWO HOUSES STACKED IN BUILDINGS STACKED.
BUT I GUESS TO YOUR POINT, YES, YOU'D STILL HAVE, YOU KNOW, TWO ENTRANCES AND TWO GARAGES.
I I, WE DID DO WE WE DID TALK MORE SPECIFICALLY WITH THE BOARD ABOUT WHAT A STACKED TOWNHOUSE WAS AT THE MEETINGS, BUT I DID NOT BRING THAT WITH ME TONIGHT.
WE'LL BRING IT BACK THE NEXT TIME.
WHAT WAS THEIR COMMENTS FOR EACH CHAIR? THEY JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS.
YOU KNOW WHAT A SACK TOWN, JUST SAME QUESTIONS THAT YOU GUYS HAD, YOU KNOW, WHAT A SACK TOWNHOUSE IS AND HOW IT WORKS.
THOSE ARE THE SNACK TOWNHOUSES THAT WE HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT WITH PARKHOUSE, IF YOU RECALL.
AND WE DIDN'T LIKE THOSE BECAUSE THE HEIGHT CORRECT.
SO WE, WE, I MEAN, WORKING WITH YOUR ENGINEERS MAKING AND FIRE MARSHAL, SOME OF THESE THINGS CHANGE JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS AC ADEQUATE ACCESS AND CIRCULATION ALL AROUND THE SITE.
SO AGAIN, HOW, 'CAUSE WE'RE ALL ASKING ABOUT THESE STACK.
I DON'T THINK WE FULLY OR WE DON'T REMEMBER THIS SITE, BUT, SO FIRST TWO FLOORS WOULD BE ONE UNIT AND THEN THE THIRD FLOOR.
IS THAT HOW IT WORKS? I MEAN, THERE ARE DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS THAT YOU CAN DO, BUT HERB WOULD BE BETTER ABLE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS NOT SIDE BY SIDE.
THE WAY THAT YOU DESCRIBED IT IS PRETTY CLOSE.
THERE'S PARKING ON THE BACKSIDE, TWO SEPARATE PARKING, YOU KNOW, GARAGES, RIGHT? UH, TWO FRONT ENTRANCES.
SO ONE GOES DIRECTLY UP TO A HALF FLOOR.
THE OTHER ONE GOES RIGHT INTO THEIR UNIT AND THEN UP A SET OF STAIRS TO THE OTHER HALF OF THE FLOOR.
AND THEN THE, THE FIRST UNIT HAS A SECONDARY SPACE TO GO UP TO THE THIRD FLOOR.
SO, SO THE, THE UNIT SHARE LIKE THE SECOND FLOOR? THAT'S CORRECT.
SOME OF THEM BYPASS IT COMPLETELY AND GO RIGHT TO THE THIRD FLOOR, CORRECT? MM-HMM
UM, I GUESS, UH, YOU, YOU ALSO ALLISON, UM, DO YOU WANT US TO, WE ARE REQUESTING FOR WAIVERS.
DO YOU WANT ME TO RUN THROUGH THOSE QUICKLY? UM, YES.
ALLISON, IS THAT STILL THE, UM, I LOST CONNECTION HERE.
THAT'S STILL LIKE THE JUNE 13TH WAIVER LETTER.
UM, THE LAST THING THAT'S LISTED ON HERE, NUMBER FIVE IS TECHNICALLY NOT A WAIVER AND WE'RE WITHDRAWING IT TO THE EXTENT IT WAS OFFICIALLY REQUESTED BECAUSE IT'S THE LOADING, WHICH IS IN THE ZONING AND WE WILL COMPLY WITH THAT.
AND THE STANDARD FOR THE WAIVERS IS YOU, YOU HAVE TO SHOW UNDUE HARDSHIP IS WHAT THAT WRITTEN? NO, THERE'S A BROADER
[02:30:02]
STANDARD FOR A WAIVER.UM, I HAVE TO GET THE LANGUAGE.
IT'S BASICALLY IF THEY'RE OFFERING A, AN ALTERNATIVE THAT MEETS THE SAME REQUIREMENTS.
IF THERE IS UN IT, IT, IT'S NOT THE SAME AS A VARIANCE HARDSHIP FOR A ZONING UNIT, FOR A ZONING REQUIREMENT.
ALDO WAIVER IS MUCH LOWER STANDARD.
UM, I'LL PULL THE EXACT LANGUAGE OUT.
SO THE, DO YOU WANT ME TO START CODING? I WAS GONNA SAY, DO YOU WANT, DO YOU WANT ME TO GO? OKAY, SO THE FIRST WAIVER I, I KNOW THAT'S PROBABLY NOT THE EASIEST TO READ ON THAT SCREEN, BUT I CAN'T READ IT ON NO, I CAN READ.
SO, UH, A WAIVER, UM, FROM SECTION 2 70 49 82 OF THE SDO, UM, AND THAT TALKS ABOUT DRIVEWAYS, UM, ARE NOT TO BE LOCATED LESS THAN 40 FEET FROM A STREET INTERSECTION AS MEASURED FROM THE CURB LINE.
UM, IN THE STACKED TOWNHOUSE, UM, SECTION, UH, THERE ARE AREAS WHERE THE, UM, DRIVEWAYS FOR THOSE STACKED TOWN HOMES ARE WITHIN 40 FEET OF THE INTERSECTIONS.
UM, THESE DRIVE, EVERYTHING WITHIN THE SITE I SHOULD MENTION IS PROPOSED TO BE PRIVATE.
UM, AND SO THESE ARE NOT, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC ROADS, THEY'RE WITHIN THE SITE.
THEY'RE ALL STOP CONTROLLED WITH A DA RAMPS AND CROSSWALKS TO PROMOTE TRAFFIC CALMING.
UM, SO ALTHOUGH THOSE DRIVEWAYS WOULD BE CLOSER, WE THINK THAT, THAT WE WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO, UM, PROVIDE ADEQUATE AND SAFE ACCESS AND INTERACTION WITH THOSE INTERSECTIONS.
AND, AND JUST TO SORT OF MORE BUILD ON THE PHYSICAL CONSTRAINTS ON THE SITE, PARTICULARLY 'CAUSE KEVIN, I KNOW YOU WEREN'T HERE PREVIOUSLY.
THERE IS A STREAM THAT SORT OF RUNS THROUGH A PORTION OF THE PROPERTY.
AND SO THE WAY THIS LAYS OUT THE RESIDENTIAL IS SOMEWHAT BIFURCATED FROM THE COMMERCIAL.
THAT'S WHY THAT RESIDENTIAL IS ON THE ONE SIDE.
AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THE COMMERCIAL ON THE OTHER.
UM, AND YOU SORT OF HAVE A NATURAL BREAK ON THE PROPERTY IN THERE.
SO THAT, THAT'S AN EXISTING STREAM THAT IS AN EXISTING STREET ON WATER AND THE CROSSING BETWEEN THE, THE TWO SIDES OF THE DEVELOPMENT THERE, THERE'S A, THERE'S PARKING IN THE BACK THERE TODAY WHERE THE STACKED TOWN HOMES WOULD GO.
UM, AND THERE IS A CROSSING THAT GOES OVER THERE TODAY.
WE'RE ESSENTIALLY REUTILIZING THAT, UM, TO CREATE THAT CONNECTION.
IS THAT A A A ROAD OR IS THAT A DRIVE OR DRIVE? IT'S, IT'S A DRIVE.
'CAUSE THAT'S A TIME YOU GET TO THE PARKING IN THE BACK.
IT'S SORT OF LIKE, I MEAN AT ONE TIME, OBVIOUSLY NOBODY'S USING IT TODAY, BUT, UM, WE HAVE AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHS SHOWING THAT THE PARKING LOT PARKING LOT WAS FULLY UTILIZED AT THE TIME THAT QUEST WAS AT ITS FULL OCCUPANCY THERE.
YEAH, I SEE IT DOWN THERE NOW I SEE IT.
UM, THE SECOND WAIVER IS A, A PARTIAL WAIVER FROM SECTION 2 70 52 A.
IT STATES IN YOUR ORDINANCE WHERE REQUIRED CONCRETE CURVES SHALL BE INSTALLED ALONG EACH SIDE OF ALL NEW AND WIDENED ROADS.
UH, WE ARE NOT PROPOSING CONCRETE CURVES ALONG, UH, 29 ALONG THE PROPERTY FRONTAGE, THE CURRENTLY NOT CURBS TODAY IN THAT AREA.
UM, AND THIS WOULD ALLOW DRAINAGE TO BE HANDLED IN AN APPROPRIATE MANNER, CONSISTENT WITH WHAT'S OUT THERE TODAY.
UM, AND AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE HAVE ALREADY SUBMITTED, UM, OUR PLANS TO PENDOT AND THEY'RE GOING THROUGH REVIEW.
WE'VE HAD PRELIMINARY CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM AND AT THIS TIME THEY'RE NOT REQUESTING CURBS BE PROVIDED ALONG 29 EITHER.
SO IT'S NOT THE WHOLE SITE, IT'S JUST ALONG 29.
AND I DO HAVE OUR ENGINEER HERE IF ANYONE HAS ANY TECHNICAL QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.
DID, DOES, SO 29 HAS A, UH, CROWN PROPERTY CURRENTLY AND WITHOUT CURVE THEN THE WATER WOULD FLOW INTO WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING AS PARKING FOR THE SMALLER RETAIL.
I, THERE'S A, THERE'S LIKE A SWELL, THERE'S LIKE A LITTLE SWELL WAS OFF THE ROAD.
JUST THAT, UH, DENNIS
INSTEAD OF PUTTING CURBS AND CREATING ISSUES.
CURB WOULD, UH, THE THIRD WAIVER IS FROM SECTION 2 70 68 C.
UM, AND IT TALKS ABOUT SHADE TREES ALONG, UH, BOTH SIDES OF ALL PROPOSED STREETS AND ALONG ACCESS DRIVES THAT SERVE FIVE OR MORE RESIDENTIAL UNITS.
UH, FOR THIS PARTICULAR WAIVER, UM, WE ARE REQUESTING TO NOT PLANT THOSE, UH, WHERE THERE ARE SHARED DRIVEWAYS
[02:35:01]
FOR THE TOWNHOUSES.WE DO NOT HAVE ADEQUATE ACCESS, UM, TO PLANT TREES THAT WOULD BE SURVIVABLE IN THOSE AREAS.
UH, WE ARE PROPOSING ADDITIONAL PLANTINGS IN THE FORM OF GRASSES TO PROVIDE SEPARATION AT EACH DRIVEWAY, BUT NOT THE ACTUAL TREES.
WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO COUNT UP THE NUMBER OF THOSE TREES AND FIND OTHER AREAS MAYBE IN THE ADJACENT PARK TO PLANT SOME OF THOSE TREES? SURE.
'CAUSE THOSE, THEY STILL NEED TO WAVE TECHNICALLY.
YEAH, BUT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT DOING PER ALDO.
BUT WE'VE DONE THIS PREVIOUSLY IN, IN OTHER DEVELOPMENTS WHERE WE'VE SAID WE'LL GIVE YOU THE WAIVER, BUT WE WANT THOSE TREES AND SOMETIMES THEY'VE GONE INTO PARK SOMETIMES ELSEWHERE IN THE DEVELOPMENT YET, BUT WE'RE NOT, SINCE WE'RE THAT SKATE PARK'S AWFULLY CLOSE.
THERE'S A TRAIL RIGHT THERE THAT'S AWFULLY CLOSED.
WE'D LIKE TO BUFFER THAT OUT A LITTLE BIT.
WELL, AND YOU GOT ALL THAT COMMON OPEN SPACE IN THE MIDDLE RIGHT IN BETWEEN THE PARKING.
SO PRESUMABLY THERE'S GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, LIKE IF, IF MY KIDS WERE THERE, THEY'D BE RUNNING UP AND DOWN THAT AND IT GETS DARN HOT THESE DAYS.
SO, YOU KNOW, REPLACING TREES WITH GRASS ISN'T GONNA DO ANYTHING TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE HEAT RADIATING OFF OF.
I THINK YOU HAVE ASPHALT PROPOSED TOO, SO IT'S A DARKER PAVEMENT.
WELL, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU HAVE TO PUT, YOU'RE SAYING PUT 'EM OVER BY THE, UH, PARK THE, UH, SOMEWHERE I THINK, I THINK WE HAVE JEN AND THEIR ENGINEER AND COORDINATE ON HOW MANY TREES WERE INTENDED BY THE ORDINANCE REQUIRED BY THE ORDINANCE, DETERMINING WHERE ON THE SITE THEY COULD REPLANT THEM THAT AREN'T STREET TREES BY DEFINITION.
AND ANY NUMBER THAT THEY CAN PLANT ON THEIR SITE WOULD GO ON TO OUR SITE.
AN ADJACENT SITE IDENTIFIED BY MS. JEN HAS A QUANTITY IN HER REVIEW LETTER.
YEAH, IT MIGHT BE A QUANTITY, BUT DO YOU HAVE THE LANDSCAPE PLAN? UM, I COULD GET TO IT MAYBE.
SO I JUST WANNA POINT OUT THAT THE DEVELOPER IS ALREADY DOING THAT AS WELL AND TWO OTHER PORTIONS OF THE SITE.
ONE IS UP NEAR THE SKATE MARK, UM, WHERE THE ROUNDABOUT IS WHERE THE FIRE MARSHAL ASKED YEAH.
IS THERE PATH THAT COMES OUT THERE? RIGHT.
UM, ISN'T THAT WHERE THE PATH COMES OUT? WELL, THERE'S A RETAINING WALL BACK THERE AND THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BUFFER REQUIREMENTS THERE, BUT THE RETAINING WALL'S TOO CLOSE TO, TO THE PROPERTY LINE.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THEIR LANDSCAPE PLAN, THEY'RE PROPOSING THE QUANTITY, IT'S JUST ON THE TOWNSHIP, UM, PROPERTY.
AND THEN THEY'RE DOING THAT, UM, SIMILARLY OVER ON THE, UM, NORTH SIDE ALSO.
AND THAT'S WHERE I JUST WANTED YOU GUYS TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
UM, IT, IT WOULD BE A SIMILAR TYPE SITUATION AND YOU CAN SEE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE THERE, THERE WERE A LOT OF TREES THAT WERE OFF OF THE PROPERTY ON THE TOWNSHIP LAND.
WE COULD PUT THE TREES SOMEWHERE WITHIN THE SITE THERE WAS ROOM FOR THEM OR, OR PUT THEM ON THE TOWNSHIP PROPERTY.
OVER THERE THERE'S A SANITARY SEWER EASEMENT, SO RIGHT.
WHICH THAT'S WHY WE'RE NOT PLANNING THEM THERE BECAUSE YEP.
ON THE, ON THE SKATE PARK SIDE, IT'S BECAUSE OF THE RETAINING WALLS AND THE FULL DESIGN WILL DETERMINE WHERE VEGETATION CAN BE PLANNED, UH, PLANTED UP THERE AND YES.
SO THEN ON THE NORTH SIDE, UM, THERE'S AN EXISTING SANITARY SEWER LINE OVER THERE SO THE TREES CAN'T BE PLANTED ON THE PROPERTY.
SO THEY'VE PUSHED THEM OFF JUST TO PROVIDE THE BUFFERING.
IF I CAN GET, JUMP BACK TO KEVIN'S QUESTION.
UM, THE STANDARD FOR GRANTING A WAIVER UNDER THE NPC IS A MODIFICATION OR WAIVER.
THE REQUIREMENTS OF ONE OR MORE PROVISIONS OF THE SALE THOUGH IS WARNED IF LITERAL ENFORCEMENT WILL EXACT UNDUE HARDSHIP BECAUSE OF PECULIAR CONDITIONS PERTAINING TO THE LAND IN QUESTION PROVIDED THAT SUCH MODIFICATION WILL NOT BE CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST AND THAT THE PURPOSE OF THE, AN INTENT OF THE ORDINANCE OF RESERVE.
IN ADDITION, COURTS HAVE CONCLUDED THAT WHERE A DEVELOPMENT OFFERS A SUBSTANTIAL EQUIVALENT TO A SUBDIVISION REQUIREMENT, WHERE AN ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENT WOULD OFFER LITTLE OR NO ADDITIONAL BENEFIT AND WHERE LITTLE LITERAL ENFORCEMENT OF A REQUIREMENT WOULD FRUSTRATE THE EFFECTIVE IMPROVEMENTS.
SO THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE BROAD STANDARD.
THERE'S THE MPC STANDARD AND THEN COURTS HAVE RECOGNIZED THE BROADER STANDARD THAT THIS IS THE, THE STANDARD FOR GRANTING A WAIVER FROM THE SAL REQUIREMENT IS FAR LOWER THAN REQUIRED FOR ZONING VARIANCE.
UM, AND THEN THE LAST WAIVER WE'RE REQUESTING IS A WAIVER FROM SECTION 2 70 68 D ONE, UH, WHICH REQUIRES ALL BUFFERS TO BE LANDSCAPED UNLESS SPECIFICALLY NOTED HERE IN LANDSCAPE BUFFERS MAKE ALSO CONSISTS OF EARTH AND BURNS FENCES AND MASONRY WALLS TO THE EXTENT A LINEAR WALL APPEARANCE, NO SEGMENT OF A BURNED FENCE OR MASONRY WALL SHALL EXCEED 50 FEET WITHOUT A BREAKER OFFSET.
SO THIS PORTION, THIS WAIVERS ACTUALLY RELATED TO THE BREAK OR OFFSET IN THE RETAINING WALLS.
UM, WE ARE REQUESTING A WAIVER NOT TO PROVIDE BREAKS EVERY 50 FEET IN RETAINING WALLS THAT FALL WITHIN BUFFER AREAS.
UM, AND I CAN HAVE, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO GET THIS WRONG, I CAN HAVE DENNIS PROBABLY EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT
[02:40:01]
BETTER, AND THEN IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT EXACTLY WHERE RETAINING ALL ARE, SHOW WHERE, SHOW US SHOW YOU WHERE THEY ARE.SO, UH, TO PROVIDE, UH, LEVEL, IS THIS THE POINTER? YES, YES.
SO THERE'S RETAINING WALLS PROPOSED ALONG SOME OF THESE AREAS HERE THAT RUN UNINTERRUPTED FOR LONGER THAN THE 50 FEET.
UM, AND THAT'S BECAUSE TO PROVIDE ACCESS OFF THE MAIN STREETS AND, AND LEVEL OUT THE GROUND TO BE ABLE TO HAVE ACCESS FOR ALL THESE UNITS, WE HAVE A DECENT AMOUNT OF GRADE CHANGE ON THE SITE.
SO TO ACCOMMODATE THAT WE HAVE RETAINING WALLS AND THOSE ARE RUNNING LONGER THAN THE 50 FEET.
SO WE'RE REQUESTING A WAIVER FOR THAT.
SO, SO THE ORDINANCE SAYS IT HAS TO BE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BREAK EVERY 50 FEET.
YOU'RE ASKING NOT TO HAVE A BREAK.
WHAT'S THE GEN ED? WHY, WHAT'S THE 50? WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF IT? WELL, I WASN'T AROUND WHEN THE ORDINANCE WAS WRITTEN.
UM, SOMETIMES THAT PURPOSE WOULD BE VISUAL.
OTHER TIMES IT WOULD BE FOR DRAINAGE.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE INTENT WAS WHEN THE ORDINANCE WAS DRAFTED ITSELF.
UM, BUT THERE'S OTHER INSTANCES IN THE TOWNSHIP, PERHAPS NOT THIS ZONING DISTRICT WHERE WALLS ARE LONGER THAN 50 FEET.
UM, AT BY GIANT AT TOWNSHIP LINES RIDGE IS ONE THAT'S THAT'S A BIG ONE.
AND THE TOLL FULLY DEVELOPMENT THAT'S CURRENTLY CONSTRUCTION.
SO IT'S NOT UNCOMMON IN OTHER AREAS AND THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO, UH, DETRIMENT TO ANYTHING FOR THAT.
THEIR WALLS ARE GONNA BE STRUCTURALLY DESIGNED AND, AND TAKE INTO ACCOUNT FOR THAT.
SO NO, I'LL TELL YOU THAT THE PERSON WHO PROBABLY WROTE THIS ORDINANCE WHO I WORKED UNDER, IT WAS PROBABLY MORE OF A VISUAL THING THAN ANY SORT OF, THERE'S THAT, THAT COMES UP IN THE ORDINANCE, A LOT OF BREAKING UP FACES AND BREAKING UP FACADES.
SO I REALLY THINK THE PERSON WHO WROTE THESE ORDINANCES LEARNING UNDER HIM, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD GET A LITTLE P****D ABOUT.
SO YOU'RE NOT LIKE IN LIKE A BALL.
THE IDEA IS TO BREAK IT UP ARCHITECTURALLY SO THAT YOU COULD SEE IT AND MAYBE SOMETHING THAT'S IN THE DESIGN OF THE WALL TO BREAK IT UP WITH A DIFFERENT COLOR ROW OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT WHEN YOU GET TO THAT POINT AND WE LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO VISUALLY BREAK UP.
SO IT'S NOT ONE BIG LONG, AS ALLISON MENTIONED, THE RETAINING WALL DESIGNS PACKAGE HAS BEEN PART OF THIS PRELIMINARY LAND DESIGN.
IT WAS REVIEWED AND COMMENTS WERE MADE.
SO THEY'RE WORKING THROUGH THOSE DESIGN.
SO AS LONG AS THERE'S NO STRUCTURAL PROBLEM WITH THAT.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE LAST WAY THAT QUESTIONS FOR ALLISON AND HER MARY MEN.
COULD YOU TELL ME WHERE THAT LITTLE TIME AREA IS? OH, SURE.
FIRST, WASN'T THERE A GOOD ONE? SORRY, NO, BLIND.
I WAS GONNA SAY I'M SO BLIND RIGHT DOWN THERE IN THAT FAR BOTTOM RIGHT.
IS THAT IT? YOU SAID THAT'S CLOSE UP? THAT'S JUST FOR THE HOA THAT'S, THAT'S FOR THE HOA.
IT LOOKS LIKE A LITTLE TINY AREA FOR ALL THOSE DOWNHILLS.
WELL THIS, THE STRUCTURE ITSELF THAT WE HAVE SPECIFIED, IT'S, IT'S MORE FOR A SMALLER CHILD WITH BEING SO CLOSE TO THE AMAZING TOWNSHIP PARK RIGHT NEXT DOOR, YOU KNOW, DUPLICATING THOSE TYPE OF USES.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS FOR NEW, YOU KNOW, SMALLER CHILDREN THAT AREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO TO THE TOWNSHIP TO GO OVER TO THE TOWNSHIP BY THEMSELVES.
WE HAVE PATHS THAT CONNECT FROM OUR PROPERTY YES.
THAT'S ALL, THAT'S, THOSE ARE PATHS THAT I SEE THE SIDEWALK WHERE YOU GOTTA GO OUT ONTO BLACKROCK.
BUT THERE'S PATHS THAT AREN'T ON THE PLAN HERE IN THE BACK TOO.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? THERE'S, YOU CAN SEE, YOU CAN SEE IT ON THERE.
IT'S HARD, IT'S HARD TO SEE ALL THESE, YOU SEE IT ON, SO ON THE RIGHT IT GOES ALONG HERE AND THEN CONNECTS TO THE TOWNSHIP PARK THERE, IS THERE A RETAINING WALL THERE, ANOTHER RETAINING WALLS WITH THE OTHER PARCEL? IT'S JUST THE PROPERTY LINE.
SO THIS IS, THIS IS, AND THIS IS, AND THIS AREA IS WHERE WE'RE PROPOSING TO, UH, HAVE SOME OF THE TR THE LANDSCAPING THAT WE'RE REQUIRED TO BE PLANNING ON, UH, TOWNSHIP PROPERTY WOULD BE OVER IN THAT AREA BECAUSE WE'RE USING THAT PARKING LOT NOW FOR DIFFERENT EVENTS.
THE TOWNSHIP HAS PEOPLE GO UP THROUGH THAT PATH, RIGHT.
SO THAT THE PATH GOES ALONG HERE AND CONNECTS IN THERE.
WOULD BE CHILDREN FROM THE AGE OF, I DON'T KNOW, SIX TO 12.
I MEAN, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE AGE LIMIT IS HER AGE PROBABILITY IS, BUT SHAME THAT ISN'T MORE RECREATIONAL AREA.
THERE ARE FOUR CHILDREN OTHER THAN JUST THAT TO LOT.
UM, BECAUSE IT, YOU KNOW, DURING THE WINTER, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF A HIKE TO GET TO THE SKATE PARK AND WHATEVER.
[02:45:02]
JERRY, ANYTHING YOU, BOB? NO.GOOD QUESTION ABOUT THAT PROPOSAL CHANGE.
WELL, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, THE PART THAT I WASN'T THRILLED ABOUT WAS WE'RE JUST PUTTING TOO MANY PEOPLE IN ONE TIGHT AREA.
I MEAN, IT'S GONE DOUBLE HIGH.
SO, AND WE'VE ALL TALKED ABOUT WE FAILED IT OVERCROWDED IN CERTAIN AREAS AND THAT'S A GOOD WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW.
ANYBODY ELSE HAS QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? ZACH, WHAT'S OUR THING HERE? WELL, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF, DO JEN AND BRIAN, DO THEY OH YEAH.
I'M GONNA MAKE THIS AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, BUT I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTION.
MY BRAIN'S STARTING TO LEAD MY BRAIN'S ALREADY OUT HERE.
UM, SO SPECIFIC TO THE MINOR SUBDIVISION, WE TAKE NO ISSUE WITH THAT.
UM, FOR PRELIMINARY, UM, THERE'S A COUPLE TYPOS FOR FINAL, WHICH I DON'T SEE AS A BIG DEAL.
THE ONLY THING I'M GONNA MAKE SURE IS THAT ALLISON AND ZACH JUST WORK THROUGH, IF YOU RECOMMEND, OR WHEN THE MINOR SUBDIVISION GETS APPROVED, I TAKE NO ISSUE WITH IT AT ALL.
THEY'VE PROVEN THEIR AREA REQUIREMENTS FOR RESIDENTIAL VERSUS COMMERCIAL AND THEY'RE ABIDING BY THE ZONING.
IF THEY WERE TO WALK AWAY TOMORROW AFTER THE MINOR SUBDIVISION IS APPROVED, THEN THE SMALLER LOT AT THE TOP REALLY SHOULD BE, UM, RESTRICTED TO RESIDENTIAL BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SATISFY THE ZONING FOR COMMERCIAL.
UM, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S A LEGAL THING AND THAT IS NOT FOR ME TOO.
IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO THROW OUT THERE, UM, TO MAKE SURE IT'S ADDRESSED.
THE COUPLE COMMENTS ABOUT THIS, SORRY, GO AHEAD.
I I'M CONFUSED WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
YEAH, THE ZONING, IT IS JUST A LITTLE COMPLICATED HERE AND IT'S NOT QUITE AS STRAIGHTFORWARD AS OTHER ZONING DISTRICTS ARE.
THE COMMERCIAL IS PERFECTLY FINE TO BE ON PARCEL A AND THE RESIDENTIAL IS PERFECTLY FINE TO BE ON PARCEL B.
IF THE MINOR SUBDIVISION HAPPENS TOMORROW, THIS DEVELOPER WALKS AWAY FROM THIS, THE NEXT DEVELOPER WHO COMES IN NEEDS TO PUT RESIDENTIAL ON THE SMALLER PARCEL.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? OR THEY HAVE TO MERGE IT BACK.
I MEAN, OR THEY COULD MERGE IT BACK IN AND CORRECT.
OR WE CAN MERGE IT BACK OR YOU CAN MERGE IT BACK IN AND PUT IT UNDER THE ORIGINAL ZONING.
AND IN TERMS IT'S MORE SEMANTICS.
IT'S NOT A PLANNED REVISION THAT ALL I CAN WORK, THAT WE CAN WORK THAT OUT.
AND, AND THE INTENT IS NOT TO RECORD THIS LIKE IMMEDIATELY THE INTENT WOULD BE TO RECORD IT, YOU KNOW, IN ORDER WHEN WE'RE READY WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT, IT'S JUST, LIKE I SAID, WE'LL RECORD IT, YOU KNOW, A WEEK OR TWO OR A MONTH IN ADVANCE OR WHATEVER, JUST SO THE ASSESSMENT OFFICE CAN DO WHAT IT NEEDS TO DO SO THAT WHEN WE DO GO TO REPORT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN, THEY'RE NOT CONFUSED.
SO THAT POOR PERSON DOWN THERE IN THE RECORDING OFFICE DOESN'T YEAH.
I HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH THE CONFUSION AT THE RECORDER OF DEEDS, SO I TOTALLY APPRECIATE WHAT ALLISON IS TRYING TO DO AND I'M NOT TRYING TO STOP THAT IN ANY, IN ANY FASHION.
UM, COUPLE QUESTIONS ON THE LAND DEVELOPMENT.
SO IN THE RESIDENTIAL SECTION, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DUMPSTERS PROPOSED.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING FOR TRASH? UM, I, FARM SIDE PRIVATE PICKUP.
SO POTENTIALLY, AND THIS IS JUST A CONSIDERATION, IF EVERY UNIT HAS THEIR OWN TRASH AND RECYCLING AND THERE'S 122 UNITS, THERE'S POTENTIALLY 244 TRASH CANS OUT, I'LL PICK UP NIGHT.
SO IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF, YOU KNOW, FOR STREET PARKING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, THE LANDSCAPING WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT COMPLETELY FINE.
I DON'T HAVE ISSUE WITH IT BEING OFFSITE.
OH, AND I JUST WANNA AGREE WITH ALLISON THAT THEY ARE AHEAD OF THE GAME.
TYPICALLY, THE LEGAL DESCRIPTIONS ARE ALREADY UNDER REVIEW AND YES, THERE ARE A LOT OF COMMENTS FOR THEM, BUT TYPICALLY WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THEM AT THIS POINT.
UM, SIMILARLY, THE RETAINING WALLS, UM, I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE RETAINING WALLS, BUT AGAIN, THEY'RE GONNA BE DESIGNED FROM A STRUCTURAL STANDPOINT AND, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S ANY SPECIFICALLY THE ONE UP BY THE SKATE PARK, IF THERE'S ANY OFFSITE, YOU KNOW, AN EASEMENT THAT MIGHT BE REQUIRED FOR CONSTRUCTION, WHETHER IT'S TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT, THAT'S THE TOWNSHIP PROPERTY.
UM, SO I DON'T SEE GETTING AN EASEMENT FROM THAT AS BEING AN ISSUE.
LIKE IT COULD BE IF IT WAS A DIFFERENT LANDOWNER.
SO IF, YEAH, IF THERE'S NO OTHER QUESTIONS REGARDING THE, THE COMMENTS IN THE LETTER, THEN YEAH, I DID THINK OF ONE OTHER THING THAT I WANTED TO MENTION.
THERE WAS A COMMENT IN HERE ABOUT PROVIDING SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES OF BLACKROCK, BUT WE DON'T OWN THE OTHER SIDE OF BLACKROCK.
AND TODAY THERE IS A PATH ON THE, THE RIVER CREST IS PARTIALLY ACROSS THE SITE.
THEN THERE'S A PRIVATE OWNER, AND THEN THERE'S THE BRAND NEW WINE SENIOR LIVING ON THE CORNER.
[02:50:01]
SEPARATELY, OBVIOUSLY, AND THEY HAVE CERTAIN THINGS THERE.AND THEN THE PROPERTY OWNER ON THE OTHER SIDE HAS A RETAINING WALL, BUT I DON'T THINK WE WOULD BE ABLE TO FIT ANYTHING IN THE RIGHT OF WAY.
SO I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT WE'RE PROVIDING THE SIDEWALKS EVERYWHERE ELSE.
BUT THERE WAS A SPECIFIC COMMENT IN THE LETTER ABOUT, SO I'M ACTUALLY, I YOU BROUGHT THAT UP.
ZOOM IN UP TO DRIVEWAY C PERHAPS THE ONE CLOSEST TO THE TOWNSHIP.
THERE WAS A GAP IN THE SIDEWALK UP THERE FOR CONNECTION ALONG THE ENTRANCE WAY.
FURTHER UP AT THE VERY TOP OF THE TOP.
I HAVE, OH, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.
JUST CAN YOU ZOOM INTO THAT ENTRANCE? YEAH, THAT'S THE CLOSEST I CAN.
IF YOU CAN LOOK AT DOING A CONNECTION FROM THE TOWNHOUSES ACTUALLY TO THE TRAIL AT BLACKROCK.
THERE WAS JUST A GAP IN THE SIDEWALK THAT WASN'T CLOSE.
WE WERE INTERPRETING THAT, THAT YOU WANTED IT ALL THE, THE WAY DOWN.
EXPLAINING OUT THAT WASN'T ON BLACKROCK, JUST FOR EVERYBODY'S KNOWLEDGE OF NOT WHEN YOU KNOW CONSTRUCTION.
WHERES THE SIDEWALK? I THOUGHT WE WERE PROVIDING GOT IT, GOT IT.
BRIAN, ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD? NO, THERE'S NO COMMENTS FROM QUESTIONS REGARDING THE TRAFFIC COMMENTS.
NOW, THE TWO ENTRANCES ON BLACKROCK, ARE THEY LEFT HAND RIGHT TURNS OR ARE THEY RESTRICTED? GREG, I GOTTA EARN SOME MONEY LUNCH HERE.
YOU THINK I'M FALLING ASLEEP OVER THERE? YEAH, WE, YEAH.
I'LL GIVE YOU THE, I'LL GIVE YOU THE QUICK, UH, TOUR.
UH, THE DRIVEWAY THAT'S CLOSEST TO THE TOWNSHIP PROPERTY IS A, UH, RIGHT END, RIGHT OUT, LEFT, END, LEFT OUT ALL, ALL TURNING MOVEMENTS.
AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LEFT TURN LANE ON, UH, BLACKROCK TO TURN INTO THE DRIVEWAY, COMING DOWN TO THE, WHAT I'LL CALL THE COMMERCIAL DRIVEWAY.
UH, THIS WILL BE A RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT, LEFT IN NO LEFTS OUT.
SO, UM, SO THEREFORE, UM, WE ARE AGAIN HAVING A LEFT TURN LANE TO TURN INTO THAT DRIVEWAY.
WE'RE ALSO GONNA EXTEND THE LEFT TURN LANE AND MATCH IT WITH THE EXISTING LEFT TURN LANE DOWN AT THE SIGNAL.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IT'LL DO IS ALSO GIVE, UH, THE, THERE IS A LEFT TURN LANE TO TURN INTO THE RETIREMENT COMMUNITY, BUT THE PRIVATE DRIVEWAY THAT'S, I BELIEVE IT'S RIGHT HERE, UH, DOES NOT HAVE ITS OWN LEFT TURN LANE.
SO THAT PROPERTY OWNER WILL GET A LEFT TURN LANE OUT OF, OUT OF THIS WHOLE DEAL.
AND YOU'RE GONNA EXTEND THE CURRENT LEFT TURN LANE ON THE 29TH.
AND THEN, UH, DOWN AT THE, UH, DRIVEWAY HERE, THE, UH, COMMERCIAL DRIVEWAY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A WIDE, WE'RE GONNA WIDEN BLACKROCK, UH, THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF PAVEMENT OUT THERE, BUT NOT ENOUGH TO GET THE TURN LANES THAT WE NEED.
SO WE'RE GONNA BE WIDENING HERE TO PROVIDE A RIGHT TURN DECELERATION LANE OH, INTO THE DRIVEWAY.
WE CAN'T DO THE SAME AT THE OTHER DRIVEWAY FOR THE RESIDENTIAL PORTION BECAUSE OF THE, THE PROXIMITY OF THE TRAIL THAT GOES THROUGH THERE AS WELL AS THE HISTORIC BUILDING THAT WE CAN'T AVOID.
UH, WHAT WE'RE DOING THERE IS PUTTING A LARGER RADIUS IN THERE TO FACILITATE THOSE TURNING MOVEMENTS IN THERE TOO.
IT WILL BE EXACTLY LIKE A DECELERATION LANE, BUT IT WILL BE EASIER FOR THE DRIVERS TO GO IN AND, UH, I DON'T WANNA SAY AT A HIGHER SPEED, BUT THEY'LL, THEY'LL BE MORE FACILITATE THOSE TURNING MOVEMENTS.
AND THEN IF YOU GO DOWN TO THE SIGNAL, UM, JEFF, AND HERE AT THIS INTERSECTION, YOU'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THE SKEWED NATURE OF THIS INTERSECTION, RIGHT? YOU KNOW, UH, THIS INTERSECTION WILL, WE WENT THROUGH OUR TRAFFIC STUDIES, SHOWED THAT THERE WAS A HIGH NUMBER OF TRAFFIC, UH, CRASHES HERE OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS.
REALLY, UH, IT'S BECAUSE OF THE SKEWED NATURE OF THIS, UH, THIS APPROACH HERE AS WELL AS THE LEFT TURNS THAT ARE MAKING, THERE'S A HIGH NUMBER OF LEFT TURNS THAT ARE MADE HERE AND THEY JUST SEE THE ERROR OF THE GREEN BALL AND THINKING THAT NO ONE'S COMING ACROSS IN THE OTHER DIRECTION.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE GONNA BE DOING FOR, UH, FOR THE, UH, SIGNAL HERE IS WE'RE GONNA GO WITH A, IT'S A RELATIVELY NEW THING THAT'S IN PENNSYLVANIA, IS A FLASHING YELLOW ARROW.
AND WHAT THAT DOES IS, INSTEAD OF JUST A GREEN BALL WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST GET LOCKED IN ON THE GREEN BALL, YOU'LL SEE THE FLASHING YELLOW AND, AND WHAT IT DOES FOR DRIVERS IS IT TELLS 'EM, HEADS UP, YOU NEED TO PAY ATTENTION, EXTRA SPECIAL CARE THAT THERE'S CARS COMING ACROSS TRAFFIC.
AND THEN, UH, AT THE MAIN INTERSECTION, THIS WILL BE THE LAST THING I'LL TELL YOU, AND THEN WE CAN PRO UH, HOPEFULLY GO HOME EARLIER TONIGHT.
UM, IS, THERE IS A CUE, UH, UH, I'M SORRY, THERE'S A WEAVE.
WHEN YOU COME OFF OF THE RAMP OF 4 22, UH, THERE IS A WEAVE TO GET INTO THE DRIVEWAY FOR THE GLAXOSMITH LINE.
THERE'S TWO DUAL, THERE'S DUAL LEFT TURNS TO TURN IN HERE.
THERE IS A, THE VEHICLES HAVE TO GET OVER INTO THAT LANE.
THEY'RE ALSO COMING SOUTH AND THEN THEY'RE UNDECIDED WHETHER THEY SEE A RIGHT TURN LANE INTO OUR FACILITY, WHICH EXISTS TODAY, OR WHERE DO THEY WANT TO TURN AT BLACKROCK.
AND A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE GET IN THAT RIGHT TURN LANE.
SO WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE DOING, AND HAS BEEN ASKED BY THE TOWNSHIP
[02:55:01]
AS WELL AS PENDO, IS WE'RE GONNA BE PROVIDING AN EXTRA THROUGH LANE.SO WHEN YOU'RE COMING OFF, YOU'LL GO STRAIGHT INTO THAT LANE AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE AN OVERHEAD SIGN THAT'S GONNA SAY THROUGH BLACKROCK.
SO THEY'LL STAY, HOPEFULLY GET IN THAT LANE, THEN WE'RE GONNA EXTEND THAT LANE THROUGH THE INTERSECTION AND IT BECOMES A RIGHT TURN LANE HERE.
SO THEY'RE BASICALLY, THAT'S A THROUGH LANE.
THEY'LL SEE THAT THEY'RE IN THE RIGHT TURN LANE, THAT THERE'S A CORRECT LANE, AND THEN THEY'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO PROCEED WITHOUT HAVING TO CHANGE LANES LIKE YOU DO TODAY.
BUT THE BUT THE PEOPLE COMING OUT OF THE, UH, COMMERCIAL AREA WILL HIT THAT LANE AS THEY EXIT, RIGHT? YEAH.
THEY'LL HAVE TO GET OVER, HAVE TO GET OVER, HAVE TO GET OVER.
THEY WANNA GO STRAIGHT BLACKROCK.
BUT THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT'S HAPPENING TODAY.
WELL, IT'S NOT AS WIDE TO DAVID.
IT, IT IS GONNA BE A BETTER SITUATION.
IT'S GONNA, THIS IS THE KEY AREA HERE.
THAT'S THE CONFUSING AREA THERE BECAUSE PEOPLE DID, THEY DECIDE THEY'RE IN THE WRONG LANE.
AND THEN YOU FIND OUT THAT TURN LANE GOES INTO THE PARK AND DOESN'T GO TO BLACKER.
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE, THE KEY IMPROVEMENT THAT WE'RE PROVIDING HERE.
WE'RE ALSO PROVIDING A CROSSING, UH, A PEDESTRIAN CROSSING ON THE SOUTHERN LEG FOR YEARS.
UH, PENDOT WOULD NOT APPROVE THAT.
UH, THE TOWNSHIP GOT A GRANT TO DO SOME MAJOR IMPROVEMENTS AT THIS INTERSECTION.
YOU'VE NOTICED IT GOT RID OF THE WIRES, THE SPAN WIRES WITH PERMANENT MA ARMS. THERE IS GONNA BE A, A PEDESTRIAN CROSSING HERE.
SO YOU'LL HAVE A CROSSING, UH, EXISTING CROSSING HERE.
I'M GONNA ENHANCE THAT WITH SOME IMPROVED PAVEMENT MARKINGS CROSSING HERE.
AND THEN DOWN HERE, THERE'S AN EXISTING CROSSING THAT GOES FROM THE TRAIL THAT'S, THAT WAS BUILT ON SMITH AXO, SMITH PINE COMING DOWN.
AND THEN THERE YOU CAN CROSS OVER HERE AND THEN YOU COULD GO EITHER IN THE GLAXO OR THE BUS STOP.
THERE'S A SEPTA BUS STATION OR BUS STOP, BUS STATION, BUS STOP THERE.
SPEAKING OF SEPTA, WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT SEPTA RIGHT NOW.
SOUTHBOUND WHATEVER ROAD, WHATEVER ROUTE THAT IS SOUTHBOUND IS ON THE OTHER SIDE.
SO WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT THE BUS STOP IS GONNA MOVE TO THIS SIDE WHERE THERE'S SIDEWALK.
IT'S A SAFER STAND PLACE TO STAND.
AND IT SERVES BOTH BRANDYWINE, THE PEOPLE BRANDYWINE THAT NEED IT AND THE PEOPLE HERE THAT NEED IT.
YEAH, BECAUSE THIS, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A, THESE, THIS IS A PEDESTRIAN GENERATOR.
UH, NOT ONLY FOR, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT THE, THE RESIDENTIAL U UNITS OVER HERE TO, YOU KNOW, I GUESS IT'S OVER HERE.
UH, SOUTH EAST CORNER AT THE INTERSECTION.
UM, YOU ALSO WILL HAVE THE RE RETAIL, UH, I'M SURE THERE, THERE'LL BE, UH, EMPLOYEES THAT WILL USE THE, YOU KNOWS, TO, TO, YOU KNOW, COME TO THIS, UH, YOU KNOW, SHOPPING CENTER TO WORK.
WHAT WE'RE DOING IS, AND, AND JEFF IS BROUGHT UP A GOOD POINT IS RIGHT IN THIS AREA HERE IS WHERE WE'RE LOOKING TO PUT WHAT, UH, FIVE BY EIGHT CONCRETE PAD THAT WE HOPED THAT PEN OR, UH, SEPTA WILL APPROVE IS A, IS A RELOCATION OF THE SUB SPOT.
UH, GETTING SEP TO RESPOND IS LIKE PULLING TEETH THOUGH.
IT'S, IT'S JUST, UH, WE'RE WORKING ON, WE'RE WORKING ON IT.
THEY GOT A LOT OF PROBLEMS TODAY.
UM, THE OTHER THING THAT WE'RE GONNA DOING IS, UH, WE'RE GONNA GONNA BE EXTEND THE LEFT TURN LANE THAT'S AT, UH, THIS INTERSECTION OF BLACKROCK AND 29, THE NORTHBOUND LEFT TURN LANE.
BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THE SIGNAL AND THE PHASING WITH THAT YELLOW ARROW, WE'RE GONNA NEED SOME EXTRA STACKING ON THAT LANE.
SO IT'S PAVEMENT MARKINGS ONLY.
IT'S NOT ANY ADDITIONAL WIDENING.
AND THEN THE LAST THING THAT WE'RE GONNA BE PROPOSING THERE IS TRAILS THROUGH HERE.
PEDESTRIAN TRAILS ALONG THE FRONTAGE.
YOU ALREADY HAVE THE TRAIL, UH, SIDEWALK ALONG BLACKROCK, BUT WE'RE GONNA EXTEND THAT TO THE PROPERTY LIMITS ALONG ROUTE 29.
AND THEN THE LAST THING THAT WE'RE GONNA DOING IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE GOING TO NECESSARILY NOTICE FROM A PHYSICAL STANDPOINT, BUT, UH, YOUR PREVIOUS TRAFFIC ENGINEER AS WELL AS, UH, PENDI HAS REQUESTED THAT WE PROVIDE A FIBER OPTIC CABLE FROM THE, THIS SIGNAL TO THE SIGNAL AT THE, AT THE RAMP.
UH, FOR WHATEVER REASON IT DOESN'T EXIST TODAY.
UH, WHAT THAT WILL DO IS ALLOW, IT WILL IMPROVE THE, UH, FLOW OF TRAFFIC ALONG ROUTE 29 BECAUSE THE SIGNAL, THAT SIGNAL CAN, WILL BE ABLE TO TALK TO THE O UH, OUR SIGNAL A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
THEY'LL, PEOPLE COMING OUT WILL WANT TO GO ON 4 22.
WELL IT'S, IT'S MORE THE OPERATION OF THE INTERSECTION AND THE TIMING BETWEEN THE TWO INTERSECTIONS.
YOU KNOW, IN A PERFECT WORLD, YOU LIKE TO GO FROM ONE INTERSECTION TO THE NEXT INTERSECTION WITHOUT HITTING THE, UH, THE RED SIGNAL.
BUT WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE PROVIDING THAT, UH, THAT CONNECTIVITY THAT IS, IS THE MISSING LINK IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
SO WE'RE GONNA BE PROVIDING THAT FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, AND, AND YOU KNOW, AND PENNDOT IS APPROVED IS IN THE PROCESS OF APPROVING THAT.
RIGHT NOW THERE'S, THERE'S REALLY NOT A WHOLE LOT OF TRAFFIC OTHER THAN THE GLAXO TRAFFIC.
BUT NOW THAT THIS COMMERCIAL, THERE CAN BE LOTS OF TRUCKS COMING INTO THAT INTER INTO THAT CONJUNCTION.
AND THAT'S WHY IT IS KEY THAT WE ADDRESS THIS WEAVING ISSUE HERE AS WELL AS IMPROVE THE SAFETY, UH, AND THE OPERATIONAL CHARACTERISTICS OF THIS INTERSECTION TO MAKE IT MORE WORK, UM, MORE.
AND WE'RE ALSO GOING TO BE ALIGNING THESE APPROACHES A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN THEY ARE TODAY.
UM, YOU KNOW, GOING FROM ONE INTERSECTION
[03:00:01]
IN THE PAST YOU DIDN'T SEE A LOT OF TRAFFIC GOING BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN QUEST AND GLAXOSMITH LINE.BUT NOW YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE FROM GLAXO THAT ARE GONNA COME OVER HERE, GO TO LUNCH SHOP, WE'RE ALL GONNA WALK ON NICE SUNNY DAYS.
WE HOPE EXACTLY HOW IT'S GONNA WORK.
WE DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE OUT THERE SMOKING CIGARETTES ALONG ROUTE 29 EITHER.
BUT I'M JUST, JUST A QUICK QUESTION.
CAN YOU POINT OUT WHERE THE BUS, THE PROPOSED NEW BUS PAD IS? IT'S IN THIS ROUTE AREA, RIGHT? RIGHT OVER THERE.
AND IT'S HARD TO TELL, BUT THERE'S SOME SORT OF WALL AND SAFETY FENCE.
IF YOU WERE A BRANDYWINE RESIDENT OR SOMEONE GETTING OFF THE BUS STOP, MAYBE THEY WORK IN PHOENIX, THEY LIVE IN PHOENIXVILLE AND THEY WORK HERE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND THEN WHERE ARE YOU WALKING TO TO GET IN? IF YOU GET OFF OF THIS EXIT HERE OR OF THIS BUS STOP HERE? YEAH, THERE'S A SIDEWALK AND A PATH GOING TO BE PROVIDED.
THERE IS A CROSSING HERE AND YOU CROSS OVER.
CAN YOU LIKE GO STRAIGHT TO NOT CAPITOL GRILL OR DO YOU, DO YOU WALK ALL THE WAY? WELL, NO, YOU DO.
YOU CAN BECAUSE THAT'LL BE THE, THE CHANGING GRADE IN THIS AREA.
YOU'LL HAVE TO COME DOWN HERE AND WALK UP IN HERE.
OR YOU CAN GO, WELL YOU DON'T WANT TO GO UP IN HERE 'CAUSE THERE'S SOME GRADE ISSUES IN THIS AREA.
SO WE A CONNECT CONNECTION FROM THIS SECTION HERE.
YOU WANT APPARENTLY NOT WORKING THIS THING TOO WELL.
UM, YEAH, THERE, EVEN IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO GO UP HERE, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO CLIMB A HILL MORE OR LESS AND GO DOWN TO A SWALE.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT, UH, IT'S NOT, IT IS IN A HOSPITAL FOR, FOR UH, SO THAT ALSO LIMITS THE WHEELCHAIRS COMING ACROSS FROM BRANDYWINE NURSING COMPANY COME UP.
THAT WAS A JOKE BY YEAH, WELL, YEAH,
I DON'T THINK IT'S GETTING LATE.
IM SLOW ON THE UPTAKE COMING OVER.
NO, BUT WE WILL, WE, WE WILL BUILD ALL OF THIS, UH, WE WILL BE PROVIDING, UH, UH, A DA ACCESSIBLE RAMPS ON BOTH SIDES.
UH, THESE, AND YOU KNOW, THIS IS ALL NEW.
ONE THING I WANTED TO POINT OUT IS THAT WE ARE, I KNOW THERE'S A WAIVER THAT WE'RE NOT TO, WE DO NOT WANT TO PROVIDE CURBING ALONG ROUTE 29, BUT THERE IS CURBING, YOU WANT TO CALL IT, UH, CURBING UP TO THIS POINT AROUND THE RADII AND THAT'S THERE MAINLY TO PROTECT THE SIGNAL POLES.
SO, BUT THERE IS, I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM, STRICTLY FROM THE LETTER OF THE LAW, IT'S NOT ALL ALONG THERE, BUT WE ARE PROVIDING SOME CURB.
SO IF YOU WANT TO TREAT THAT AS A PARTIAL WAIVER, I MEAN EVERYWHERE YOU WANNA SEE IT, BUT THAT'S IT.
THESE ARE THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE BELIEVE ARE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE, THE CONNECTIVITY WITH THE SIGNALS IMPROVING THE SAFETY AT THIS INTERSECTION IS, UH, PARAMOUNT.
UM, IT WAS POINTED OUT THAT TO US TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT EARLY ON AND WE DISCOVERED THAT THAT'S IT, IT, IT IS GOING TO, WE BELIEVE IT'S GONNA BE A GREAT, UH, IMPROVEMENT HERE.
AND THEN, UH, YOU KNOW, PROVIDING THE PEDESTRIAN CROSSING HERE, WHICH AGAIN, WILL PROVIDE ACCESS FROM GLAXO OVER TO THIS AND BACK AND FORTH WITH THE TRAIN OR THE, WITH THE BUS STOPS BEING ON BOTH GIVES THE, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, RESIDENCE IN THE, UH, FOR THE NEW RESIDENTIAL PORTION AS WELL AS THE RETAIL OPPORTUNITIES TO USE THE MASS TRANSIT IN THE AREA.
IT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE WITH THE SLOPES.
I DON'T, I DUNNO THE, THE, HOW MUCH IT IS ALREADY.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF LIKE DEVELOPMENT FROM THE NINETIES AND TWO THOUSANDS THAT SEEMS LIKE IT SHOULD BE WALKING ON PAPER.
THERE'S LOTS OF SIDEWALKS, BUT THEN THE LENGTH, YOU HAVE TO WALK ON A SIDEWALK TO ACTUALLY GET ANYWHERE DO YOU WANT TO GO BECAUSE OF GRADING AND FENCES IS SO MUCH THAT NO ONE EVER WALKS IN THE SIDEWALKS.
SO IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THERE WERE A WAY TO CONNECT THAT.
SO YOU'RE NOT, I MEAN, IF YOU'RE GONNA, IF YOU'RE DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANNA, YOU KNOW, GET AN UBER OR DRIVE YOUR CAR AND THE WALK AS THE CROW FLIES IS FIVE MINUTES, BUT AS THE SIDEWALK ALLOWS, IT'S 45 MINUTES.
YEAH, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU IN SOME CASES BECAUSE I, I, I LIVE IN, UH, LIMERICK AND I'M ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION THERE.
AND WHEN WE BUILT THE COSTCO, WE KIND OF LIKE LEFT THE SIDEWALKS OUT IN CERTAIN AREAS TO SEE WHERE PEOPLE WERE ACTUALLY WALKING.
AND THEY CREATE THEIR OWN PATHS.
AND THEN WE JUST TOLD COSTCO TO, WE, WE A COUPLE YEARS AND LET'S SEE WHERE THAT PARKING, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WERE GOING FROM COSTCO TO THE OUTLETS EUPHEMISTICALLY CALLED DESIRE LINES, LIKE COLLEGE CAMPUSES.
WELL THE PEOPLE ARE GONNA TAKE THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE AND, YOU KNOW, UM, SO, BUT AGAIN, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD NORMALLY CONSIDER.
UH, THE OTHER THING IS TOO, WE DON'T WANT TO INTRODUCE CROSSINGS IN THE MIDDLE OF A PARKING LOT EITHER, BUT I, I, I FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I MEAN, WE WANT TO TRY TO KEEP THEM ON THE MAIN, UH, PATH.
THEY CAN SEE WHERE THEY CAN GO.
ONCE THEY CAN GET UP IN THIS AREA HERE.
THEY CAN DECIDE WHICH, WHICH STORE THEY WANT TO VISIT.
UH, IF THEY'RE AN EMPLOYEE, THEY KNOW WHERE THE BUS STOPS ARE, THEY'RE GONNA USE THE SIDEWALKS.
UH, AGAIN, WITH THE GRADING, THE RETAINING WALLS, FENCING THAT'S IN THIS AREA, UH, I DON'T SEE THAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE
[03:05:01]
ON, UH, YOU KNOW, MANY PEOPLE GETTING IT.NO, I DON'T PERCEIVE OF ANYBODY USING THAT AREA ACROSS THE ANTICIPATED.
UM, ESPECIALLY ON THE ONE DOWN ARROW, 29 MAIN ENTRANCE, IF YOU CALL THAT A MAIN ENTRANCE.
WHAT'S THE ANTICIPATED TRAFFIC? UH, HOW MANY, HOW MANY CARS A DAY YOU THINK GOING THROUGH THERE? WELL, DURING THE, THE SATURDAY PEAK HOUR, YOU'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT AROUND 700 VEHICLES.
ABOUT 350 IN AND 350 HOUR A DAY.
NO, THAT'S JUST FOR THE SATURDAY.
THAT'S JUST FOR THE SATURDAY PEAK PEAK.
IF YOU SATURDAY, IF YOU WANNA PROJECT THAT OUT ALL DAY, IF YOU WANNA PROJECT THAT OUT, USUALLY IT'S GONNA BE A PEAK HOUR USUALLY REPRESENTS 10% OF THE DAY.
SO IF YOU ON A SATURDAY IT'S A LITTLE BIT HIGHER.
SO I WOULD SAY AROUND 3,500 VEHICLES.
WELL, YOUR OFFICE BUILDING THAT WAS THERE PROBABLY WAS AROUND 2000, 2,500.
YOU KNOW, THAT WAS FIVE YEARS AGO.
NOW IT'S, REMEMBER THOSE EMPTY PARKING LOT? YEAH, THAT'S THE, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE PERCEPTION THAT, BUT UM, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A PRETTY, IF YOU LOOK BACK ON THE AERIALS, BOTH OF THOSE PARTICULAR PARKING LOTS WERE COMPLETELY USED.
THERE WAS HARDLY ANY SPACES AVAILABLE.
WELL THEN OVER TIME AROUND 2019 IT STARTED TO DIE OUT A LITTLE BIT.
AND THEN OF COURSE WE HIT COVID AND WHICH CHANGED THE MARKET ALTOGETHER.
SO UNLESS YOU HAVE ANY OTHER, UH, PUSH, AND AGAIN, WE HAD THE VEHICULAR ACCESS CROSSINGS BETWEEN HERE, SO WE COULD HAVE SOME CROSS TRAFFIC BETWEEN THE, THE PROPOSED USES THAT CROSS THAT CROSS ROAD OR WHEREVER THAT IS UP THERE.
UP UP HERE? NO, UP, UP, UP, UP, UP IN THE RESIDENTIAL RIGHT HERE? NO, UP THAT ONE THAT GOES ACROSS HERE.
IT WAS ACROSS THE CIRCLE THAT IS THAT JUST PEDESTRIAN? BECAUSE YOU LIKE LITTLE XS ON THE DRAWING HERE.
IS THAT JUST PEDESTRIAN OR IS THAT NO, THIS IS A, THIS IS A VEHICULAR.
AND YOU CAN USE THIS, WE'RE GONNA, YOU HAVE AN ACCESS TO THE PARKING AREA THAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR THE RIGHT, THAT PART, DEPENDING ON WHAT USE WE PUT IN FOR THE HISTORICAL BUILDING.
BUT THAT CROSSROAD THAT GOES ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE RESIDENCE.
THIS HERE, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT THIS LANDSCAPING.
THERE'S NOT A ROAD OR A PATH OR THERE'S A WALKING PATH HERE.
THERE'S WALKING TRAFFIC IS MY POINT.
NO, CARS COULD DRIVE THROUGH THE FOLLOW THE GREEN LINE.
THAT'S, THAT IS THE VEHICULAR ACCESS.
THEN YOU COULD CROSS HERE AND CROSS HERE.
THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THIS LITTLE PARKING LOT HERE IF THEY WANTED.
SO ALL THE ACCESS FOR CARS IS ON IT'S, YEAH, IT, EXCEPT FOR THE SURFACE, IT'S THE WIDER WHITE LINES.
AND ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT ALSO I WANNA POINT OUT IS THE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION AS WELL AS STAFF HAD POINTED OUT THERE WAS A PROBLEM AT THIS INTERSECTION.
WE'VE, WE'VE CLEANED THAT UP A LITTLE BIT, UH, TO MAKE IT MORE OF A, A TRADITIONAL INTERSECTION.
THERE WAS A KIND OF A, IT WAS COMING IN AT A WEIRD ANGLE AT INITIALLY AND YOUR, YOUR CONSULTANTS HAD, UH, ASKED US TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
SO WE CLEANED THAT UP, MADE IT A MORE TRADITIONAL RADIUS AND IT, WE, WE BELIEVE THAT'S GONNA WORK A LOT CLEARER, UH, MORE SMOOTHER AS FAR AS TRAFFIC.
AND THEN YOU HAVE A STOP SIGN HERE.
UH, WE'VE WORKED EXTENSIVELY WITH YOUR CONSULTANTS ABOUT PEDESTRIAN, UH, ACCESSIBILITY BETWEEN, YOU SEE NUMEROUS CROSSINGS ALONG THE FRONTAGE, UH, TO ASSIST DRIVERS OR, OR PEDESTRIANS, UH, THE MOST APPROPRIATE LOCATIONS DEPENDING ON THE STORE FRONTS.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALL GONNA DEPEND ON THAT.
'CAUSE YOU WEREN'T IN THE PRELIMINARY.
IT WAS, UH, ANTHONY, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON? NO, I THINK WE, WE'VE TALKED AND, AND WORKED THROUGH, UM, OUR CONCERNS BUILDING ON WHAT, WHAT YOU HEARD FROM THE PREVIOUS CONSULTANT.
UM, YOU JUST RECEIVED A PENDO REVIEW LETTER, UM, AND WE'RE, WE'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH, WITH WHAT PENDO IS SEEING.
SO WE'LL WORK TOGETHER TO, TO FINALIZE THOSE DETAILS.
BUT OTHERWISE WE'RE IN GOOD SHAPE.
YEAH, WE DID RECEIVE A LETTER AND WE'RE WORKING THROUGH SOME OF THOSE COMMENTS AND GET SOME CLARIFICATION FROM THE DEPARTMENT, BUT WE ANTICIPATE HE MAKE A RESUBMISSION WITH TO PENDO BY THE END OF THE MONTH, FIRST WEEK OF AUGUST.
AND HOPEFULLY THE CLIENT WILL, DAVID WILL, UH, UH, WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT SOONER THAN LATER, BUT I WE'RE ANTICIPATE A PERMIT PROBABLY IN AROUND SEPTEMBER, WHICH WILL PROBABLY BE AHEAD OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT.
BUT, UH, HE'S A, HE'S A TASK MASTER.
HE WANTS TO WANNA GET EVERYTHING DONE FAST, SO KNOW GOOD.
SO YEAH, I CAN SKATE THROUGH FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR.
SO
SO, SO IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, I'M HERE TO, I'M GOOD QUESTION.
YOU MENTIONED TYING THE TWO TRAFFIC LIGHTS TOGETHER OUT ON 29.
I THOUGHT ALL NINE OF THOSE WERE TIED TOGETHER THAT WE WERE TOLD A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
THEY ARE, TO THE EXTENT OF THE OLD TECHNOLOGY WAS WHAT THEY CALL TIME-BASED COORDINATION.
YOU BASICALLY SET THE SIGNAL UP AND YOU
[03:10:01]
SET THE TIMER UP ON BOTH SIGNALS.BUT THAT WAS, THAT WAS BEFORE THEY ACTUALLY, THIS IS THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL CONNECTION WITH A FIBER OPTIC CABLE THAT WILL PRESENT, PREVENT THE POSSIBILITY OF THOSE SIGNALS OF GETTING OUT OF SEQUENCE.
UH, THAT'S JUST THE, THAT TECHNOLOGY'S BEEN AROUND FIBER OPTIC FOR, FOR WHATEVER REASON IT WAS MAYBE 'CAUSE THIS WASN'T DEVELOPED OR THIS SIGNAL WAS A PRIVATE SIGNAL PER SE, UH, THAT MISSING LINK WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT THERE.
AND WE'RE GONNA BE PROVIDING THAT.
EVERY SIGNAL ALONG THIS CORRIDOR, UH, NORTH OF THE 4 22 DOWN TO PAST, UH, RIVER CREST, THEY'RE ALL IN THAT SYSTEM.
WE'VE GOT A PLAN IN THE PLAN SET.
YOU CAN SEE EACH, EACH SIGNAL AND THERE'S TIMING SET UP THERE.
AND YOU SET UP WHAT WE CALL A, A PROGRESSION PLAN.
UM, AND THAT'S HOW YOU GET THE TRAFFIC SIGNALS TO TRY TO WORK IN SEQUENCE.
YOU CAN'T ALWAYS, IT'S ALWAYS BASED ON WHATEVER THE SIDE STREET DEMANDS, BUT WITH PRESS, YOU KNOW, WITH PREFERENCE TO THE MAIN ROAD.
BUT, UH, IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA DO IT, IT IS GONNA IMPROVE, IT'S GONNA BE AN IMPROVEMENT, IT'S GONNA IMPROVE, IT FALLS COURT ORDER, BUT IT'S ALSO GONNA, UH, YOU KNOW, BENEFIT, BE A BENEFIT TO OUR, OUR SITE TOO.
SO IT IT, IT'S A WIN-WIN FOR, FOR ALL PARTIES.
QUESTIONS IS, ANY MORE QUESTIONS? QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? COMMENTS? YOU KNOW, I, I THINK I'M REALLY EXCITED.
I THINK IT'S GOOD FOR THE, I THINK IT'S A GOOD PLANE FOR THE TOWNSHIP BECAUSE IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST VACANT THERE NOW AND NOTHING GOING ON.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE BOB POINT, THE ONE AND A HALF STORY OR THE ONE AND A HALF, I'M NOT CRAZY.
THAT'S THE ONLY PART THAT HURTS ME, BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.
YOU GUYS GOTTA BUILD ENOUGH PLACES TO MAKE IT, YOU KNOW, FEASIBLE FOR YOU TO DO.
'CAUSE YOU'RE MAKING A LOT OF IMPROVEMENTS TO THAT WHOLE INTERSECTION.
AND UH, SO, UM, WHAT DO WE DO ZACH? WELL, DO WE NEED TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? OH, YES.
UH, IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? OH, YOU DO.
HOW ABOUT STATE YOUR NAME AND THE ADDRESS.
UM, SO I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE WAIVER ON THE TREES.
SO UNDERSTANDING THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE BUILT ON THIS PROP OR PLANTED ON THIS PROPERTY, BUT THE OTHER OPTION WOULD BE TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF UNITS SO YOU CAN PLANT TREES, RIGHT? THOSE ARE OPTIONS.
AGAIN, THEY HAVE TO BUILD SO MANY UNITS TO MAKE THIS WHOLE THING PROFITABLE, RIGHT? THEY GOTTA SELL SO MANY UNITS.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT CALCULATION IS, BUT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE TO BUILD SO MANY TO MAKE ALL THESE CHANGES.
THIS IS ACTUALLY A PHYSICAL ISSUE RELATED TO A STACKED TOWN HOME.
SO IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY STACKED TOWN, TOWN HOMES THERE ARE, THE TYPE OF RESIDENTIAL WE'RE PERMITTED HERE IS STACKED TOWN HOMES.
THE DRIVEWAYS FOR A STACKED TOWN HOME, THE WAY THEY LAY OUT ARE TOO CLOSE TOGETHER IN BETWEEN.
SO YOU CAN'T PHYSICALLY FIT A TREE THAT WOULD SURVIVE TO MATURITY AND ALSO PROVIDE THE DRIVEWAY ACCESS TO THE UNIT.
SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE NOT DOING IT.
SO THE NUMBER OF UNITS IS NOT NECESSARILY RELEVANT.
SO IF YOU CHANGE THE TYPE OF UNIT, THEN YOU COULD POTENTIALLY, LIKE WE, WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BUILD OTHER TYPES OF UNITS HERE.
SO STACK TOWN HOMES IS THE TYPE OF UNIT THAT IS PERMITTED HERE.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE BUILDING.
IT'S A DIFFERENT ZONING DISTRICT THAN THE LAST THING WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT.
SO I'M NOT COMPARING IT TO THE LAST THING.
YEAH, NO, I I'M JUST, BUT JUST EVERY AND WHAT ARE YOU SELLING THEM FOR? UM, I DON'T KNOW.
THAT WE DON'T, WE DON'T KNOW YET.
UM, I'M ALSO CURIOUS IF THERE WAS ANY, I HAVEN'T SEEN THE PLANS BEFORE TONIGHT, BUT IN TERMS OF JUST HOW THIS SPACE IS BEING USED TO EITHER BUILD COMMUNITY, ALLOW COMMUNITY TO EAT THE FOOD THAT THEY'RE BUYING AT THESE RESTAURANTS AND ENGAGE WITH THE RESIDENTS, AND I'M STARING AT A GIANT PARKING LOT AND I'M JUST CURIOUS IF IN ANY OF THESE PLANNING STAGES THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS OF LIKE CREATING A MORE INVITING SPACE TO USE WHAT MAKES IT NOW NON INVITING? IT'S A PARKING LOT.
YOU DON'T GET TO SPEND TIME OUTSIDE AND ENJOY ALL OF THE IMPROVEMENTS YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT.
SO I'M JUST KIND OF CURIOUS IF THAT'S PART POSSIBLY JUST REPRESENTATIONAL THE SHAPE OF THE BUILDING, THE SHAPE OF THE, THE, WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE OUTSIDE SEATING OR OTHER THINGS THAT WILL EVOLVE AS THE ARCHITECTURE AND AS THE USER COMES IN.
IF YOU LOOK AT, UM, THE SHOP STOP OF PROVIDENCE, WHICH IS UP ON RIDGE PIKE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF TARGET, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE, THEY STARTED WITH BOXES LIKE THIS AND THEY TOOK A CUTOUT SO THAT YOU COULD HAVE INTERNAL, SO YOU COULD HAVE SOME OUTDOOR SEATING AND SOME OTHER THINGS THAT THEY DID IN THE, IN THE SHOPPING CENTER AT THIS LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT, IT REALLY IS JUST SHOWING WHERE
[03:15:01]
THE, WHERE THE BUILDING SITS AND HOW THE EVERYTHING IS LAID OUT.I MEAN THIS LOOKS LIKE THAT TOWN, THAT TOWN CENTER TO ME.
SO LIKE THAT, BUT OKAY, SO THAT COMES AT A LATER PHASE.
WELL, I WAS, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE SHOPS AT UPPER PROVIDENCE, WHICH ARE WAY UP ON RIDGE PI, THE SAME THING.
THE SAME THING HAS HAPPENED WITH THE PROVINCETOWN CENTER.
TO WHERE SHOPS AND BUILDINGS HAVE EVOLVED OVER TIME, WHERE IT WAS JUST SHOWN AS A BOX.
AND NOW YOU HAVE THE HOUSE OF INDIA THAT HAS, YOU KNOW, PARKING OR SEATING AROUND THE OUTSIDE AND, AND THERE'S MORE SPACES THAT YOU CAN CREATE ON INTERNAL THINGS.
IT'S NOT DOWNTOWN PHOENIXVILLE.
BUT IT THERE WILL, AS THE ARCHITECTURE EVOLVES ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS, YOU WILL SEE MORE SPACES AND MORE CHARACTER CREATED THAN JUST A BOX.
SO THAT HAPPENS AT A LATER PLANNING PHASE WHERE THAT GETS SHARED KIND OF THING? OR IT JUST DOESN'T GET SHARED? I'M JUST CURIOUS.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO HIDE IT, IT'S JUST IT IS, WE DON'T KNOW THE USERS.
THEY KNOW THE USERS, SOME OF THE USERS, BUT IT'S NOT PART OF THIS LIKE PROCESS, I GUESS IS WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY.
IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO PUT OUTDOOR SEATING IN THE RESTAURANT THERE THAT WE DON'T CONTROL THAT SOMEBODY WANTS TO NO, I KNOW, BUT I THINK FROM LIKE AN OVERALL DEVELOPMENT PLAN, THESE ARE THINGS THAT CAN GET INCORPORATED.
I MEAN, I'VE EXPERIENCED THEM, THEY EXIST AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT LIKE THE CAPITAL GRILL IS GONNA DECIDE.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE DEVELOPER DECIDES BECAUSE IT'S MORE STRUCTURAL AND IMPACTFUL.
SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE MY QUESTION IS COMING FROM.
SO PHIL, JEFF, I, I GUESS I'M NOT SURE WHAT TYPE OF ELEMENTS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AND THEN, BECAUSE AGAIN, THESE ARE JUST SORT OF SHOWN AS REPRESENTATIONAL SPACES OF WHAT THE, A GENERAL BUILDING ENVELOPE WOULD LOOK LIKE.
UHHUH, WHEN A USER COMES IN, WHETHER THAT'S A GROCER THAT HAS SOME OUTDOOR AREA OR A CAPITAL GRILL OR SOMETHING THAT HAS AN OUTDOOR AREA, THOSE WILL EVOLVE AS THE ARCHITECTURE EVOLVE.
SOME OF THAT GETS SHOWN ON THE PLAN, BUT SOME OF THAT ALSO IS DONE ONCE, ONCE THE ARCHITECTURE AND THE BUILDINGS ARE DESIGNED.
THE BUILDINGS AREN'T DESIGNED AT THIS POINT OTHER THAN THE THE OUTSIDE BOX.
WHAT CONFORM TO THE BUILDING CODE AND THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE BUILDING HAPPENS AFTER EVERYTHING IS APPROVED.
ZONING DEALS WITH THE, THE AMOUNT OF PROPERTY TAKEN UP AND WHAT HAPPENS ON THE PROPERTY.
NOT WITH THE SPECIFIC ARCHITECTURE OF A BUILDING.
IF I, IF I MAY, I MEAN I THINK CLAUDIA, BUT IT'S NOT, I AGREE WITH YOU.
IT LOOKS INCREDIBLY CAR-CENTRIC.
AND THAT WAS KIND OF MY QUESTION ABOUT THE, THE THE LITERAL WALL.
I MEAN, NO ONE, LET'S BE HONEST, NO ONE'S GONNA WALK ON THAT SIDEWALK UNLESS THEY ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO, WHICH IS FINE.
THAT'S WHAT THE, I'M GONNA BEG TO DISAGREE.
I SEE PEOPLE WALKING ON THESE SIDEWALKS EVERY DAY.
I ALSO, SOME PEOPLE SEE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WALKING ON EGYPT WHERE THERE'S NO SIDEWALK BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO.
UM, IT WOULD, IT WOULD BE EASIER TO, YOU KNOW, GET FROM BRANDY WINE TO NON CAPITAL GRILL IF, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD WALK RIGHT ACROSS THAT PEDESTRIAN REFUGE AND GO DOWN.
BUT, YOU KNOW, AND I LIKE THE, THE INFILL RETAIL TOWARD THE CURB WITH SMALLER SQUARE FOOTAGES.
BUT YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME, I THINK CALLED LIKE LIFESTYLE CENTERS.
I CAN'T REMEMBER, BUT YOU KNOW WHERE THERE'S MORE THAN, WHAT IS THAT? THE, THE SIDEWALK NEXT TO THE, THE BIGGEST BOXES LIKE THE GROCER TENANT, YOU KNOW, WHERE THAT IS LARGER AND ALLOW, WOULD ALLOW THE TENANT TO HAVE SOME OUTDOOR SEATING IF THEY WANTED TO.
THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAVE OUTDOOR SEATING IF IT'S ALL CONCRETE.
'CAUSE WE'RE GRANTING A TREE WAIVER, UM, TREE WAIVERS IN THE RESIDENTIAL, ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE.
BUT ONLY 'CAUSE WE'RE SPLITTING IT.
RIGHT? NO, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T PUT THEM IN OVER THERE.
THERE IS LANDSCAPING THAT IS, IT'S JUST IN BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAYS FOR THE STACK TOWNHOUSE.
AND JUST TO PUT SOME CLARITY ON LIKE THE SIZING OF THIS.
SO OUT IN FRONT OF THE GROCERY, UH, AREA MM-HMM
UH, THAT BUILDING EVENTUALLY WILL HAVE A VERY LARGE CANOPY COMING OUT.
AND THE SPACE IN FRONT OF IT IS ABOUT 25 FEET OF PAVING.
IT'S NOT A FIVE FOOT SIDEWALK.
UM, AND THEN ADJACENT TO THE, THE BUILDING HERE, THAT'S RIGHT BY THE ENTRANCE.
IF YOU LOOK TO THE, JUST TO THE LEFT OF IT, THAT'S ABOUT A 2,500 SQUARE FOOT PATIO THAT'S BASICALLY GOING TO BE PROGRAMMED BY THE END USER TO BE OUTDOOR SEATING TO DO, YOU KNOW, FULL DO LIKE, YOU KNOW, STRUCTURED SHADE STRUCTURES, THINGS LIKE THAT, PERGOLAS.
AND IF YOU SCROLL OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE WHERE THE RESTAURANT IS, IT'S THE SAME THING.
WE ARE PROGRAMMING THAT SPACE.
IT'S, WE WANT THE CENTER TO BE SUCCESSFUL.
SO WE ARE PROGRAMMING A LOT OF OUTDOOR SPACES FOR THERE.
IT'S JUST THE END USERS ARE GONNA WANT TO DICTATE WHAT THAT REALLY LOOKS LIKE.
BUT, SO THAT'S AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION, RIGHT? I'M ANSWER THE QUESTION YES.
AND THE POINT IS THAT LIKE, THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE IT AN ENJOYABLE SPACE.
AND THAT'S THE QUESTION IS LIKE, IS IT JUST A PARKING LOT IN STORES? 'CAUSE LIKE THAT IS NOT NEEDED, BUT LIKE HOW CAN IT BE A BETTER EXPERIENCE? SURE.
[03:20:01]
SO, SURE.AND YOU SAID YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THIS PREVIOUSLY.
WE'VE PRESENTED A FEW TIMES, UH, RENDERINGS.
I THINK YOU'VE ALL SEEN THEM WHERE WE ARE.
THE GOAL IS HAVE, AND SO UNDERSTANDING CONTEXT OF THAT AND LIKE JUST PUSHING THE ENVELOPE A LITTLE BIT ON LIKE WHAT A SHOPPING CENTER LOOKS LIKE IN AMERICA IS LIKE WHY NOT TRY? SO THAT'S WHERE MY COMMENTS ARE COMING FROM.
THERE'S NO OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? ANY ANYBODY ELSE FROM THE AUDIENCE GALLERY? ANYBODY ELSE? NOTHING.
ZACH, WHAT'S RULE? SO ALLISON THIS EVENING YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION? YES.
SO ESSENTIALLY IT'S I GUESS A TWO PART RECOMMENDATION.
THE FIRST IS ON THE PRE ONLY PRELIMINARY LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
UM, AND THE FOUR WAIVERS ARE REQUESTING ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.
AND THEN SECONDARILY THE MINOR SUBDIVISION PLAN, NO WAIVERS REQUESTED FOR THAT.
BUT DO WE HAVE TO PROVE THIS 2D TWO PROPERTY? DO WE HAVE TO PROVE THAT OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, THAT'S THE MINOR SUB MINOR SUBDIVISION.
AND THEN YOU NEED TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION AS TO EACH OF THE FOUR WAIVERS.
YOU CAN GO DO THE ONE BY ONE HOWEVER YOU WANT TO HANDLE THEM.
AND THEN WE NEED A RECOMMENDATION ON THE, UH, PRELIMINARY CLAIM.
DOES ANYBODY WANT TO, UH, SEPARATE THE WAIVERS OR WE MAKE A RECOMMEND? I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE WAIVERS? OR DO WE WANT SOMEBODY WANT TO APPROVE THEM? COULD YOU JUST SCROLL DOWN REALLY QUICK TO THREE? I JUST WANNA SEE THE WORDING OF IT.
I THINK ANY RECOMMENDATION SHOULD CHANGE OR, OR SAY WAIVER NUMBER THREE SHOULD REQUIRE REPLACEMENT TREES ONTO I AGREE.
PROPERTY AGREED BY THE TOWNSHIP.
LEAVE IT THAT VAGUE BECAUSE I DON'T WANNA SAY SPECIFIC AREAS IF THAT'S, WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT IT INTERNALLY YET.
SO WE'LL JUST ADD THAT SENTENCE.
YOU GUYS ALRIGHT? THAT THAT'S FINE.
SO AGAIN, DO WE WANT TO SPLIT THESE UP OR WE WANNA MAKE A MOTION TO KEEP ALL THE WAIVERS UPON THAT? OR I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE FOUR WAIVERS AS PROPOSED IN TODAY'S MEETING.
UM, WITH THE CAVEAT THAT, UH, THE ONE WAIVER SPECIFYING THE GRASS AREAS VERSUS TREES THAT THE TREES BE MADE AVAILABLE AT THE TOWNSHIP AS APPROPRIATE.
RIGHT? AND THE JUNE 13TH WAIVER REC RECOMMENDED THE BOARD, RIGHT? CORRECT.
EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT? I'LL TAKE A SECOND THEN IF THAT, IF THAT WORKS.
ALL RIGHT, SO THE NEXT THING WOULD BE THE MINOR SUBDIVISION UH, PIECE.
UM, DOES ANYBODY WANNA MAKE A MOTION ON APPROVING THE MINOR SUBDIVISION SPLIT FROM THE RETAIL SPACE? EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THE ISSUE.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE RECOMMEND TO THE BOARD SUPERVISORS THAT, UM, THEY APPROVE THE, UH, SPLIT BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL SPACE.
I'LL TAKE A SECOND IF EVERYBODY AGREES OR NOT.
SO THE LAST ONE WOULD BE APPROVAL OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAN TO THE REC RECOMMENDATION TO, UH, THE SUPERVISORS ON THE PRELIMINARY PLAN.
AND AGAIN, WE'VE STATED OUR ISSUE, WE DON'T LIKE THE STACK, BUT WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ISSUES WITH THAT.
WE'VE KNOWN IT BEFORE THIS, BUT, UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON, ON THE PRELIMINARY PLAN? BOB, YOU WANNA MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE PRELIMINARY PLAN? DENY THE PRELIMINARY.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE, EVEN THOUGH I DISAGREE WITH THE STACK TOWN HOMES, AS I SAID BEFORE, WE HAVE, SO THE, THE, THE OVERALL IS VERY NICE.
SO I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION IF WE, UH, APPROVE THE PRELIMINARY PLAN AND I'LL TAKE A SECOND IF EVERYBODY AGREES OR WHATEVER.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH EVERYBODY.
WE PUTTING IN ALL THE TIME FOR YOU GUYS.
ALICE, ARE YOU STILL INTENDING TO BE AT MONDAY AND BOARD MEETING? YES.
[03:25:01]
TO ASK.WE HAVE TO PROVE JUST THIS ONE JEFF.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
THE NEXT UH, OPEN OPEN THE LAST MEETING.THE, THE NEXT MEETING WE HAVE IS AUGUST 6TH.
UM, THAT WILL BE COLLEGE, THE MULTIFAMILY AND MILLENNIUM ESTATE SIX 50.
EACH ROAD IS THE, THE SAME DEVELOPMENT.
UM, THE LOVER'S LANE PARCEL PROBABLY WILL NOT BE ON AGAIN.
I KNOW THEY PULLED THEMSELVES OFF.
THEY PROBABLY WILL NOT BE ON UNTIL SOMETIME IN SEPTEMBER OR MAYBE OCTOBER AT THE EARLIEST.
UM, I'VE GOT AN EXTENSION UNTIL OCTOBER 31ST, I THINK ON THAT HALLOWEEN EVERYBODY.
UM, SO AUGUST 6TH WILL BE COLLEGE OF MULTIFAMILY MILLENNIUM ESTATE.
WE'LL GET BACK TO UM, RIDGE PIKE ZONING.
AS WE TALKED ABOUT LAST MONTH, I WANTED TO ASK BRIAN IF HE'S READY FOR SOME TRAFFIC SAFETY STUFF.
DO YOU THINK WE'LL BE ABLE TO, UH, FINALIZE THEM RIDGE PIKE ZONING? NO, BECAUSE THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF LANGUAGE THAT GETS WRITTEN AND A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT WE, SO IT IS FEASIBLE, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL IT'S GONNA BE A COUPLE MONTH PROCESS AND THAT, THAT, HAVE THEY MADE A, HAS THE CAR WASH MADE A PROPO? WELL THE CAR, THE CAR WASH, THIS IS SEPARATE FROM THE CAR WASH.
BUT THAT'S PART OF THAT WHOLE NO RIGHT.
THEY HAVE TO, THEY HAVE TO BRING THAT WELL, YEAH, THEY'RE CURRENTLY, UM, THEY WENT TO ZONING REPORT.
THEY RECEIVED APPROVAL FOR THE CAR WASH.
THEY STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH LAND DEVELOPMENT.
SO THEY HAVE NOT PUT THAT APPLICATION IN YET.
MOSTLY AT MY REQUEST BECAUSE IT WAS SORT OF AT THAT HEARING IT WAS SORT OF COMPLICATED WHAT THEY RELIEF THEY WERE GETTING.
SO I'M, AND THERE WERE PEOPLE WITHSTANDING, SO I WAS WAITING FOR THE DECISION TO BE ISSUED SO THAT THE APPEAL PERIOD COULD GO BY.
THE REASON I BROUGHT IT UP IS 'CAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE ZONING BOARD VOTED.
AND I'M SORRY, DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT ONLY HAPPENED A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.
SO THAT WILL NOW BE COMING TO US IN THE FUTURE, RIGHT? AS A, AS A PROGRAM.
AND THEN WE STILL GONNA WORK ON THE FRONTAGE ALONG O THE GREENWOOD DO LIVE THE FULL ZONING.
THAT, THAT WILL BE A COUPLE MONTH PROCESS.
I, I WAS THINKING ABOUT, OKAY, I GOT IT.
I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN, UM, WHEN THE, WHEN THE CAR WASH COMES IN, LIKE I USUALLY DO.
NOW WHAT ABOUT THE ONE YOU SEVEN IS HASSON ROAD? NO, NO.
HASSON ROAD IS A, IS A 14 LOT SUBDIVISION ON A ONE SOMETHING ACRE PIECE OF PROPERTY.
WHERE'S HASSON ROAD AT? IT'S, IT'S ON, IT'S OFF OF 29.
UM, DO YOU REMEMBER THE, THE PEARSON DEVELOPMENT, I'M SORRY, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 4 22? IT'S, IT IS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF 4 22.
DO YOU REMEMBER, AND I THINK THIS IS RIGHT WHEN YOU CAME ON THE PEARSON DEVELOPMENT.
I, SO, UM, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS BACK THERE.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, WE'LL, WE'LL WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT WHEN, WHEN IT COMES UP.
SO THAT WAS ALL AUDON BACK THEN? NO, NO, NO.
SO THAT, YEAH, THAT'S A 14 MONTH SUBDIVISION, SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED.
UM, THAT SHOULD PROBABLY BE SEPTEMBER I THINK MAYBE WE'LL SEE.
UM, I DO HAVE AN EMAIL FROM THE TENTATIVE SKETCH SIDE OF THE 5 9 2 MENNONITE ROAD ENTERTAINMENT THAT WE PASSED THE ZONING.
WE MAY HAVE TO TACKLE THAT ON THE 20TH AS WELL.
I JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT THEIR COMMENTS ARE ABOUT THE HEARING AND WHEN WE CAN START SCHEDULING THAT OUT.
'CAUSE THEY HAD TO GET A CONDITIONAL USE AND A TENTATIVE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN APPROVED.
HOW ABOUT ONE OF THE GENTLEMEN HERE TONIGHT MENTIONED IT OR WHAT? I'M NOT SURE WHAT HIS BUILDING WAS WHEN HE MENTIONED IT, BUT THE, THE, UH, CHURCH, THE PROPERTY, THE CROSSROADS OR WHATEVER IT'S CALLED.
THEY, ZACH AND I SAT DOWN WITH THEIR ATTORNEY, WORKED OUT SOME ZONING, HAD SOME SERIOUS QUESTIONS FOR HIM ABOUT HOW THE SITE FUNCTIONS, HOW THE SITE FUNCTIONS IN THE FUTURE.
GENERALLY ALL THINGS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HERE IN THE PUBLIC FORUM, HOW HE WAS GOING TO ADDRESS THOSE.
I THINK HE WENT ON VACATION FOR A COUPLE WEEKS AND NOW HE'S BACK.
AND I, I THINK THE LAST EMAIL, IF I MEMORY SERVES ZACH, THAT HE'S WORKING ON IT.
HE HOPES TO HAVE SOMETHING SOON.
YEAH, WE'RE, WE'RE WAITING ON THE RESPONSE TO THE REVISIONS THAT WE HAD SENT THEM.
AND THERE'S PROBABLY SOME, SOME TWEAKS.
IS THAT ZONE PROPERLY? NO, NOT ANY TIME.
YEAH, THE YEAH, THIS IS, THIS IS THEIR, THIS WOULD BE THEIR APPLICATION TO REZONE THE PROPERTY, WHICH TO AMEND THE ZONING OF THE INSTITUTIONAL DISTRICT FOR THEIR PROPERTY.
SO WE WANTED TO DEAL WITH THAT.
WELL YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION.
WELL YOU, YOU WILL STILL ALLOW TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD.
YOU A RECOMMENDATION AFTER THEY, AFTER THE ZONINGS? NO, NO.
YOU, YOU CAN, WELL YOU DON'T HAVE TO, BUT YOU CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON THE ZONING.
OH, WE CAN MAKE ON THE ZONING ITSELF.
THEY WILL COME HERE AND THEY WILL PRESENT THE ZONING TO YOU.
IF YOU CHOOSE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, YOU MAY FOR, I THINK THEY COME TO US BEFORE THEY WENT THROUGH THE ZONING BOARD.
NO, THAT'S THIS, THIS IS A ZONING CHANGE.
[03:30:01]
SO IT GOES TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.THAT'S GONNA BE INTERESTING TOO.
YEAH, IT'S, THERE'S ALREADY SIGNS COMING UP SO IT'S GONNA BE ANOTHER ONE.
ALRIGHT, ANYTHING ELSE THEN FOR THAT ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL WITH OUR NEWEST MEMBER ON SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2025, SEPTEMBER 10TH.
MY SISTER AND MY SON'S BIRTHDAY FOR WHAT THAT'S WORTH.
WITH THAT, I'LL, UH, IF NOTHING ELSE, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE, RIGHT? NO.
OKAY, THEN I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
KEVIN MADE THE MOTION TO ADJOURN.
ALL IN FAVOR? YOU WANNA STAY SO LONGER JERRY? I DON'T THINK SO.
CAN I MAKE MOTION? YEAH, I KNOW.