[00:00:01]
BUT YOU GOTTA GAVEL SO THEY HEAR YOU.[CALL TO ORDER / MOTION TO APPROVE MARCH 5, 2025 AGENDA]
THERE WE GO.ALRIGHT, WE'LL MOVE ON TO, UM, OH, LET'S SEE HERE.
ANYONE WANT TO MAKE A MOTION ON THAT? I'LL MOVE TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.
UM, HAVE A BUSY, BUSY SCHEDULE TONIGHT.
LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE, UH, THE MINUTES FROM PREVIOUS MEETINGS, PUBLIC COMMENTS, THE PUBLIC COMMENTS, ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS ON ANYTHING THAT IS NOT ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
A CHANCE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE MINUTES FROM FEBRUARY 5TH AND 19TH? YES, SIR.IF SO, UH, ANYONE CARE TO MAKE A MOTION? I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM BOTH FEBRUARY 5TH, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AND THE FEBRUARY 19TH PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
ANYONE? YEAH, I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES.
THE SECONDED IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON March 5th, 2025]
ON TO DISCUSSION OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD APPLICATION.UH, IS THAT SOMETHING WE WANT TO, IF I COULD, I'LL, I'LL FOR EXPLAIN WHERE WE'RE AT.
I WOULD SAY FIVE TO EIGHT YEARS AGO, WE USED TO BRING EVERY ZONING TEXT, THE ZONING HEARING BOARD APPLICATION BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND THEN TO THE BOARD FOR THEIR DISCUSSION, FOR THEIR REVIEW.
WE STOPPED THAT, UH, MOSTLY BECAUSE WE SORT OF HAD THE INTERNAL DISCUSSION THAT IT WAS, UH, A LOT OF IT WASN'T NECESSARY FOR FENCES FOR IN LOST WEEKS.
AND ACCORDING TO OUR SOLICITOR, HE SAID THAT WE WERE, THE BOARD WAS ALWAYS, COUNSEL WAS ALWAYS PARTY TO THE APPLICATION, SO THEY DIDN'T NECESSARILY NEED TO HAVE A FORMAL REVIEW OF IT.
OF COURSE, THEY WERE INFORMED THROUGH, YOU KNOW, EMAILS AND THINGS LIKE THAT OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING.
THEY'VE EX, THE BOARD HAS EXPRESSED AN INTEREST TO HAVE THAT SORT OF STARTUP AGAIN WITH CERTAIN APPLICATIONS.
AND, AND LUCKILY FOR, FOR TRACTOR SUPPLY, THEY'RE THE TEST CASE.
THEY'RE THE FIRST ONE BACK, SO THEY'RE HERE.
THE POINT OF IT IS TO HEAR THE APPLICATION UNDERSTAND IT.
UM, ZACH CAN EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT BETTER, BUT MAYBE IF YOU WANT TO SEND SOMEBODY, IF YOU WANT TO REFER THE SOLICITOR TO THE HEARING THAT YOU MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD.
JUST TO JUMP IN ON WHAT JEFF WAS SAYING, I THINK THAT, UM, THE BOARD'S KIND OF EXPRESSED THAT THEY WANT TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION.
THEY WANT TO BE, BE MORE AWARE OF THE ZONING APPLICATIONS THAT ARE COMING THROUGH.
SO I THINK THAT TO THE EXTENT, UM, THE PLANNING COMMISSION MAY REVIEW AN APPLICATION, HAVE SOME THOUGHTS, HAVE SOME ISSUES, HAVE SOME PROBLEMS WITH AN APPLICATION.
I THINK THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, BEING THE BODY THAT A LOT OF THEIR TIME REVIEWING AND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION AND DEALING WITH THIS, THIS KIND OF WORLD IN A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL, A LITTLE BIT MORE FOCUS ON THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
I THINK IT'S WORTHWHILE FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO PROVIDE SOME GUIDANCE AND SOME, SOME, UH, MAYBE SOME REFERRALS FOR THE BOARD IN TERMS OF WHETHER, UH, THE BOARD MAY WANT TO SEND THE SOLICITOR, BUT MAY WANT TO SEND A LETTER JUST KIND OF OUTLINING SOME CONDITIONS THAT MIGHT BE NECESSARY.
BUT I THINK THAT, UM, THIS COULD BE A VALUABLE TOOL TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE'S AWARE OF THE ZONING APPLICATIONS THAT ARE COMING THROUGH AND, YOU KNOW, THE TOWNSHIP'S RESPONDING.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THAT? OKAY, SO BERNADETTE IS HERE FOR THE APPLICATION.
BERNADETTE KEARNEY FROM HAMBURG GROUP AND HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT, WE, WE ALSO HAD MADISON ALBA, UH, FROM THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY AND THE TENANT, JENNIFER GREEN, THE DIRECTOR OF REAL ESTATE FOR TRACTOR SUPPLIES, ALSO AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS, AS IS SCOTT, I'M NOT GONNA SAY THIS RIGHT, WEISS, THE BROKER FOR THE PROPERTY.
SO THIS IS THE FORMER SPORTS CASINO BUILDING AND, UH, THE RETAIL USE OF TRACTOR SUPPLY IS WHAT WE'RE REQUESTING.
WE DO NEED A USE VARIANCE SINCE IT'S IN THE M1 AND, UH, UNDER THE M1, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE CR CRSC COMMUNITY REGIONAL SHOPPING.
SO RETAIL IS PERMITTED, BUT WE DON'T MEET ALL THE CRITERIA FOR, UH, RETAIL USE UNDER THE CRSC.
USE VARIANCE FOR THIS RETAIL USE OF THE TRACTOR SUPPLY.
WE'RE TAKING THE BUILDING THAT'S EXISTING THERE AND BASICALLY RE-SKINNING IT AND USING IT.
SO THE BUILDING'S GOING TO REMAIN, UM, JENNIFER CAN EXPLAIN.
THERE ARE, UH, WE ARE ASKING FOR RELIEF FOR PARKING.
[00:05:01]
PARKING SPACES THAT ARE GOING TO BE OUT THERE.THEY USUALLY HAVE ABOUT, THEY USUALLY THEIR PROTOTYPE IS 56.
YOU HAVE TO COME UP AND SPEAK ON THE BIKE, I THINK.
OUR PROTOTYPICAL PARKING IS ABOUT 56 SPACES.
UM, IN NEW JERSEY, MAYBE HIGHER, UM, VOLUME STORES.
WE HAVE 80 MAXIMUM, SO THIS IS ACTUALLY OVER PARKED FOR US.
I'M SORRY, YOUR LAST NAME AGAIN? UH, GREEN, LIKE THE PILLAR.
THE, THE OTHER TWO VARIANCES ARE TO PERMIT, YOU CAN SAY HERE, JENNIFER, TO PERMIT INSIDE STORAGE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE REQUESTED RETAIL USE.
SO, UH, THE ITEMS THAT ARE BEING SOLD WILL BE STORED INSIDE THE BUILDING AND WE TECHNICALLY NEEDED RELIEF FOR THAT AS WELL.
AND THE FINAL RELIEF IS FOR THE OUTDOOR DISPLAY AND SALES.
UM, AND YOU CAN SEE ON THE NEXT PLAN, I THINK, I THINK IT WAS THE BEFORE THAT, YEAH.
YES, THE OUTSIDE, UH, DISPLAYS AND JENNIFER COULD KIND OF EXPLAIN WHAT IT IS, BUT IT'S SORT OF SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU SEE AT HOME DEPOT AND LOWE'S, THE FLOWERS.
THERE'S ALSO, UM, THERE'S A FENCED IN AREA, WHICH IS IN YELLOW, AND ALSO IN PINK YOU'LL SEE THERE'S A FENCED OUTDOOR DISPLAY AREA.
UM, AND CERTAIN THINGS ARE BEING SOLD THERE.
THEY, UH, IT'S FENCED, IT'S ALARMED.
SO, UM, THERE'S NO PROBLEM WITH ANYBODY COMING AND TAKING THIS STUFF.
THE PINK AREA IS KNOWN AS THE, UM, TRAILER AND EQUIPMENT DISPLAY AREA.
SO IF YOU WANTED TO BUY A TRAILER FOR THE TRUCK OR THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT'S IN THE PINK AREA.
YOU'LL SEE THAT LITTLE, THE ORANGE OR RED THAT IS ALSO SOLD.
THEY UNDERSTAND HOW IT HAS TO BE SOLD.
UM, AND THEN THE GREEN IS MORE THE, UH, DISPLAY AREA.
SO WHEN YOU GO, I, I OFTEN SEE IT AT ACE HARDWARE TOO, WHEN YOU GO OUTSIDE AND YOU SEE THOSE DISPLAYS.
NOW THE GREEN AREA IS, IS REALLY, IT'S, IT'S SNOWBLOWERS AND IT'S, UH, ROCK SALT IN THE WINTERS.
UM, THERE'S SOME, YOU KNOW, SEASONAL DISPLAY, UM, UNDER THE YELLOW THAT'S EXPENSING MATERIALS, LIVESTOCK MATERIALS PRIMARILY.
SO THOSE ARE THE FOUR VARIANCES THAT WE NEED.
THE USE VARIANCE FOR THE ACTUAL USE FOR THE RETAIL, THE PARKING, WE FEEL IT'S OVER PARKED, UH, THE OUTDOOR DISPLAY AND SALES AND THE, UM, INSIDE STORAGE OF THE MATERIALS THAT'S BEING SOLD.
AND AS JEFF'S RUNNING THROUGH, YOU'LL SEE LIKE THE, THE LAWN MOWERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, SEASONAL.
THAT'S NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM LOADS, FOR EXAMPLE, NEARLY AS LARGE THAT WE HAVE DOWN IN OAK.
ANY DISCUSSIONS, CONCERNS? I DON'T HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS.
I THINK THIS APPEARS TO BE, UH, A REASONABLY GOOD USE OF THIS PROPERTY.
UM, KIND OF FITS IN WITH THE WHOLE, THAT WHOLE HOST DEVELOPMENT AREA WITH TARGET LOADS, BJS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
SO I DON'T HAVE ANY SIGNIFICANT ISSUES UNTIL WE GET MAYBE FURTHER INTO THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I HAVE ANY, WELL, THIS WON'T NEED ANY FURTHER LAND DEVELOPMENT.
UM, ONCE THEY RECEIVE THEIR, UM, THEIR VARI, IF THEY RECEIVE THEIR VARIANCES, SORRY, UM, IF THEY RECEIVE THEIR VARIANCES, THEY WON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS BECAUSE IT IS REALLY FENCES AND DISPLAY AT THIS POINT.
SO OUR DETERMINATION IS THAT THEY DON'T NEED THAT PART BECAUSE WE'RE REUSING THE BUILDING.
IF THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE TO THE PARKING, OTHER THAN JUST PUTTING UP THE FENCING AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IF THEY WERE REARRANGING THE PARKING OR WE ADDING TO THE BUILDING, WE PUT THEM THROUGH THAT PROCESS, BUT THAT'S NOT ANY OF THIS COULD.
UM, I, UH, I AGREE WITH, UH, WITH YOU JOE, YOUR COMMENTS.
UM, UH, I THINK ANYTIME YOU CAN REUSE AN EXISTING BUILDING THAT'S VACANT, THAT'S A, THAT'S A POSITIVE.
UM, UH, BUT BESIDES THAT, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE THIS USE IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THAT, IN THAT AREA.
UM, THE VARIANCES THAT YOU'RE SEEKING, UM, YOU KNOW, PARKING, YOU'VE GOT PLENTY OF PARKING, UM, YOU KNOW, AND JUST FOR THE USE IN THE, I I DON'T HAVE ANY SIGNIFICANT ISSUES.
I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE.
SO AS I RECALL FROM THE PAST, WE HAD THREE WAYS TO GO.
WE EITHER NOT TAKE A STANCE AT ALL,
[00:10:02]
OR WE DEFINITELY WOULD THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA, LET'S GO WITH IT FROM OUR STANDPOINT.AND THERE WAS A THIRD ONE IN THERE TOO, AND I FORGET JUST WHAT, SO THE THREE, IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION WANTS TO TAKE A POSITION, YOU DON'T HAVE TO AT THIS POINT.
YOU CAN EITHER STATE THAT YOU'RE IN FAVOR.
IF YOU TELL THE BOARD THAT YOU'RE IN FAVOR OF THE, THE VARIANCE RELIEF THAT THEY'RE SEEKING AND THAT THEY SHOULD SUPPORT THE APPLICATION, YOU CAN STAY NEUTRAL AND BASICALLY JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, ZONING HEARING BOARD, DO YOUR THING.
UM, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A CERTAIN LEGAL STANDARD THAT THEY HAVE TO PROVE THAT THEY HAVE TO MEET.
AND IF THEY MEET THAT, THEN YOU KNOW, WE HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE APPLICATION.
OR YOU CAN SAY THAT YOU ARE OPPOSED TO THE APPLICATION AND THERE'S SPECIFIC REASONS OR MAYBE THERE'S SPECIFIC CONDITIONS THAT YOU'D WANT TO SEE IMPOSED.
SO THOSE ARE THE THREE OPTIONS.
STAY NEUTRAL, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE.
COULD YOU TALK ABOUT WHY IT DOESN'T MEET THE CRSC REQUIREMENTS? OH, FOR THE CRC REQUIREMENTS, IT'S, UH, IT'S LIKE A REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER AND THE ACREAGE AND THE SIZE.
I WAS JUST KIND OF, UH, MENTIONING UNDER THE M1, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO A CRC, BUT WE DON'T MEET THE DEVELOPMENT CRITERIA FOR THAT, BUT IT, IT DOES REFERENCE RETAIL.
AND THEN THE SURROUNDING PARCELS ARE ALL THE SAME OWNER TOO.
I'LL THE HOTEL NEXT DOOR WE OWN AS WELL.
SO IF THAT WERE ALL IN ONE, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT, BUT IF IT WERE, THEN IT WOULD BE ABLE TO MEET THE CRC REQUIREMENTS.
RIGHT? I, I'D HAVE TO SIT AND LOOK AND MAP IT OUT AND FIGURE IT OUT.
IT'S A PRETTY COM A FAIRLY COMPLICATED PROCESS TO GO THROUGH THAT.
I MEAN, AND THESE HAVE BEEN BOUGHT AT DIFFERENT TIMES, AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO DO IT ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
AND THE, THE POINT OF THE, THE CRSC PROCESS, RIGHT, IS TO, FOR LARGER COMMUNITY IN, WHAT IS IT, REGIONAL SHOPPING, SHOPPING CENTERS, YEAH.
UM, TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE A MORE NUANCED LOOK INFORMED BY MARKET STUDIES AND THAT SORT OF A THING ABOUT THE ENTIRE SHOPPING CENTER.
ANY OTHER ISSUES, QUESTIONS, CONCERNS? IF NOT, I, I ENTERTAIN SOME TYPE OF MOTION.
MY, MY RECOMMENDATION IS THAT WE, UH, AGREE FAVORABLY ON THIS PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT AND MOVE THAT RECOMMENDATION FORWARD RATHER THAN BEING NO OPINION OR NEGATIVE OF IT.
I, I BELIEVE THIS IS AN APPROPRIATE UTILIZATION OF THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY.
UM, IF IT WEREN'T TRACTOR SUPPLY, YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS WHAT MIGHT BE THE ALTERNATIVE, THEN I THINK THIS IS AN ADEQUATE, UH, UTILIZATION OF THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY.
SO I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE MOVE FORWARD WITH A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD.
SO THAT QUALIFIES AS A MOTION.
MOTION, I JUST RECOMMEND WE POSITIVE.
UM, WELL, I, I HAPPEN TO AGREE.
SO I, I SECOND IT OR I AGREE AND I THINK IT'S WORTH MOVING IT FORWARD.
UM, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE LIKE A BROADER PLAN FOR THE WHOLE AREA, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, REUSING A BUILDING IS A GOOD THING AND, UH, YOU KNOW, NOT NEEDING AS MUCH PARKING AS AVAILABLE IS A GOOD THING AS WELL.
OUR NEXT APPLICATION IS FOR A ZONING TAX AMENDMENT FOR CLOVIS MEDICAL.
THEY ARE LOOKING TO, UH, REUSE.
I'M NOT GONNA STEAL THE FUND, I'LL LET THEM EXPLAIN MORE OF THIS.
BUT THEY'RE LOOKING TO REUSE 200 400 CAMPUS DRIVE AND THE EXISTING ZONING DOESN'T QUITE FIT THEIR PROPOSED USE.
UM, GOOD EVENING, YOURSELF AND YES, GO FROM THERE.
I'M GEORGE ER AND I REPRESENT GLOBAL GLOS MEDICAL INC.
AND THEIR APPLICATION FOR A ZONING TAX AMENDMENT.
WITH ME TONIGHT ARE DAVID PAUL, EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN OF GLOBUS KELLY HELLER, WHO'S GENERAL COUNSEL, AND PAUL TUEY, WHO IS WITH, UM, CD RICHARD ELLIS.
AND INTERESTING ENOUGH, PAUL HAS WORKED WITH THEM FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS, FINDING BUILDING SPACE ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.
AND HE IS LOCATED THIS BUILDING FOR THEM.
AND SO THEY'RE VERY INTERESTED AND VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF MOVING HERE.
[00:15:01]
WAS FOUNDED BY A GROUP OF IN INDIVIDUALS NEARBY ABOUT 22 YEARS AGO IN PHOENIXVILLE.AND THEIR GOAL WAS TO CREATE SOLUTIONS FOR PATIENTS WITH SPINAL PROBLEMS. AND THEY HAD THEIR FIRST OFFICE IN OAKS.
SINCE THEN, CLOVIS HAS GROWN TO BE A PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANY THAT WORKS TO HELP PEOPLE WITH FRACTURES THROUGHOUT THE BODY, HIP, KNEE, SHOULDER AND ANKLE PAIN, AND CRANIAL AND BRAIN ISSUES LIKE PARKINSON'S DISEASE, TUMORS AND EPILEPSY.
ITS WORLD HEADQUARTERS ARE IN AUDUBON WHERE IT OCCUPIES THREE BUILDINGS AND IT HAS BUILDINGS IN LIMERICK THROUGHOUT THE US AND NEW JERSEY, CALIFORNIA, TEXAS AND MASSACHUSETTS.
GLOBUS HAS LOCATIONS IN JAPAN, THE NETHERLANDS, SWITZERLAND, THE UK AND GERMANY WITH 95% OF THEIR PRODUCTS MADE IN THE US.
THEY WANT TO CONTINUE THIS EXPANSION, AND THEIR GOAL IS TO DO THAT IN THIS AREA IN PENNSYLVANIA WHERE THEY STARTED OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS.
THEY'RE HERE, THEY ANTICIPATE ADDING THE 200 JOBS TO THIS, UH, CAMPUS DRIVE LOCATION.
SO FROM A DESCRIPTION, GLOBUS, I'LL GO TO SORT OF A SUMMARY OF WHAT THE REQUESTED, UH, AMENDMENT TO THE ZONING CODE IS.
FIRST IN THE PREAMBLE TO THE IO TWO SECTION, WE WOULD AMEND THE PURPOSE TO SHOW THAT ITS USES ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THOSE IN THE, UM, IO ONE DISTRICT.
THEN IN SUBSECTION 300 DASH FOUR 50, IT WOULD ADD THE USES TO INCLUDE REUSE OF UNDERUTILIZED BUILDINGS, UM, WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH THE, UH, APPLICATION THAT JUST WAS UP HERE.
UM, LAB LABORATORY IN THE MANUFACTURING, PACKAGING, PHARMACEUTICALS AND HEALTHCARE PRODUCTS, BOTH OF WHICH ARE ALREADY USES THAT ARE PERMITTED IN THE IO ONE DISTRICT, UH, THE MANUFACTURER AND ASSEMBLY OF MEDICAL EQUIPMENT, ROBOTICS AND SCIENTIFIC EQUIPMENT AND IN RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.
NOW, UM, WHEN I INITIALLY, PAUL AND I INITIALLY MET WITH JEFF AND ZACH A FEW WEEKS AGO, AND THEY ASKED FOR A DEFINITION OF RESEARCH AND I DID SOME OF MY OWN RESEARCH.
AND THE DEFINITION THAT WE ARE PROPOSING IS A COMBINATION OF LANGUAGE TAKEN FROM THE PHILADELPHIA ZONING CODE AND FROM OTHER PENNSYLVANIA TOWNSHIPS THAT HAVE AREAS WHERE THERE ARE SCIENTIFIC AND MEDICAL COMPANIES LIKE CLOVIS.
AND THAT DEFINITION WOULD BE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE SCIENTIFIC OR MEDICAL RESEARCH AND TESTING LEADING TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF NEW PRODUCTS AND PROCESSES.
THE USE MUST MINIMIZE HARMFUL OR UNPLEASANT EFFECTS SUCH AS NOISE, ODORS, FUMES, GLARE, VIBRATION, AND SMOKE, AND MUST COMPLY WITH ALL APPLICABLE FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL REGULATIONS.
AS I EXPLAINED A LITTLE BIT BEFORE THE MEETING, THE PROCESS FOR THIS, BECAUSE WE HAD SUDDENLY HAVE A A LOT OF ZONING TEXT AMENDMENTS, IS, UM, RIGHT NOW WE'RE GOING TO BE JUST TONIGHT WILL BE INTRODUCTION FOR THESE THREE.
THEN, UM, THE, THE SAME THREE WILL GO TO THE, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ON THE 17TH FOR A, IF THE BOARD RECOMMENDS, UM, OR IF THE BOARD APPROVES A HEARING TONIGHT, YOU CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT THE BOARD GRANT THEM A HEARING OR YOU CAN NOT MAKE A RECOMMENDATION AT ALL, WHICHEVER YOU PREFER.
WE'RE NOT MAKING A JUDGMENT ON THE ORDINANCE CHANGE AT THIS POINT.
WE'LL DO THAT AFTER WE SOLIDIFY THE LANGUAGE, AFTER THE PLANNING, AFTER THE BOARD MEETING, BECAUSE THE WAY THE NPC WORKS, WE HAVE SORT OF HAVE TO LOCK THE LANGUAGE IN 30 DAYS BEFORE.
SO WE'RE INTRODUCING IT NOW TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY CHANGES OR ANYTHING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER AND THE BOARD WANTS TO MAKE.
WE'LL MAKE THOSE CHANGES IF THEY GET A HEARING.
AND THEN WE'LL MOVE THAT FORWARD.
THEN THEY WILL BE BACK ON APRIL 2ND ON THE ASSUMPTION THEY GET THE HEARING, THEY'LL BE BACK ON APRIL 2ND FOR YOUR FORMAL RECOMMENDATION ON THE ZONING TEXT, A COMMIT.
AND THEN THE HEARING WOULD BE APRIL 22ND, WHICH IS A SPECIAL HEARING, SPECIAL NIGHT FOR US.
NOT THE TYPICAL MONDAY, NOT FOR YOU THE, FOR THE BOARD.
THERE WILL BE APRIL 22ND PARTY HAT YOU IF YOU WANNA WEAR THEM.
SO THAT, SO THAT'S THE SCHEDULE FOR THE NEXT, FOR THESE THREE THAT WERE THIS ONE, ONE R AND THE AGRI TEAM.
JUST A QUESTION, EXCUSE ME, WHICH PERCENTAGE OF THE FACILITY WILL BE RESEARCH AND WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE FACILITY WILL BE
[00:20:01]
MANUFACTURING? UH, THAT'S A QUESTION.MAYBE YOU COULD, DAVID PAUL COULD ANSWER ABOUT 75% IS EXPECTED TO BE RESEARCHED AND, UH, OFFICE AND 25% IS EXPECTED TO BE MANUFACTURED.
I'VE GOT A, A COUPLE QUESTIONS.
UM, YOU KNOW, I KNOW RIGHT AFTERWARD WE HAVE ANOTHER, UH, DEVELOPMENT THAT'S ALSO IN THE SAME DISTRICT.
SO I THINK THESE BIG QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
BUT SO AM I RIGHT IN THAT THE IO ONE DISTRICT, WHICH IS RIGHT NEARBY, IS, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF, UM, YOU KNOW, LARGER, UH, BIO PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES AND THEN IO TWO IS SUPPOSED TO BE IN A WAY LIKE SUPPORTING OR ANCILLARY USES, AND THE IDEA IS TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES TO LIMIT PARTICULARLY AUTOMOTIVE TRAFFIC BETWEEN THE TWO.
I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S THE, THAT WAS THE PHILOSOPHY BEHIND DEVELOPING THOSE TWO DISTRICTS.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE HAD MAYBE RELATED BUT SMALLER FOOTPRINT, UH, ORGANIZATIONS LIKE YOURSELF, UM, FOR THE COMPANY YOU REPRESENT, I KNOW THERE'S A KINDERCARE IN THERE, THERE'S SOME HOUSING, UM, SOME RETAIL THAT SORT OF A THING IN IOWA TOO.
YEAH, THE DISTRICT HAS EVOLVED SOMEWHAT FROM THE, THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE AND THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE PROVIDENCE CORPORATE CENTER.
IT REALLY WAS MEANT TO BE OFFICE WITH SOME OFFICE SUPPORT USES TO HOTELS, UH, YOU KNOW, AND THEN THERE'S SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE FOR INTERIOR RETAIL, DRY CLEANERS WITHIN THE OFFICE BUILDINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AROUND 2008 WHEN THE MARKET SORT OF BOTTOMED OUT ON A LOT OF THINGS, THE OWNER OF PROVIDENCE CORPORATE CENTER APPROACHED US ABOUT, APPROACHED THE BOARD ABOUT MADISON APARTMENTS AND THE BOARD AT THE TIME THOUGHT IT MADE SENSE, APPROVED THAT LAND DEVELOPMENT AND MOVED THAT IN.
UM, THE HOTELS HAVE ALWAYS SORT OF BEEN IN THE ORDINANCE.
I THINK THEY HAD TO AMEND THE LANGUAGE FOR THE SECOND HOTEL BECAUSE IT WAS ONLY ALLOWING ONE, BUT TWO MADE SENSE AT THE TIME.
UM, AS THE OFFICE MARKET CHANGES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, OUR ORDINANCE IS, YOU KNOW, STILL CATCHING UP SOMETIMES.
AND ESPECIALLY WITH THIS ONE, IT IS SOMEWHAT LIMITED WHAT YOU CAN DO THERE, YOU KNOW, FOR, SO THIS ONE DOES EXPAND THOSE USES.
I'LL LET ALLISON EXPLAIN THE GERMINATION OF THE NEXT ONE AND, AND HOW THAT SORT OF WORKED OUT WITH LENOIR.
UM, YEAH, I, I, THE SUPPORTING USES IS EVIDENT.
ACTUALLY STAYED IN THAT HOTEL ONCE WHEN WE WERE MOVING TO THE AREA AND THEN IN THE MORNING THEY HAVE A SHUTTLE BUS THAT GOES TO ALL OF THE BIOPHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES.
SO CLEARLY EVERYBODY THAT STAYED AT THAT HOTEL EXCEPT FOR ME WAS GOING TO WORK THE NEXT DAY AT THAT ONE OF THOSE PLACES.
UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE, THE ORGANIZATION REPRESENTS SOUNDS LIKE GREAT, 200 JOBS, 200, YOU KNOW, REALLY, REALLY GREAT JOBS IN THE COMMUNITY IS A GOOD THING.
I JUST HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE, THE ACTUAL TEXT OF THE AMENDMENT.
YOU KNOW, I NOTICED THAT ONE OF THE, THE USES THAT YOU WOULD ADD TO BEING PERMITTED WAS REUSE OF EXISTING BUILDINGS.
AND YOU KNOW, I'M NOT AS STEEPED IN IT AS YOU GUYS, BUT THAT SEEMED LIKE A, AN ODDLY EXPANSIVE USE, YOU KNOW, UNLIKE AGRICULTURE OR OFFICE OR, YOU KNOW, JUST REUSE OF A BUILDING.
YOU KNOW, WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, COULD YOU REUSE A BUILDING TO BE A MUNITIONS MANUFACTURING COMPANY? YOU KNOW, LIKE, IS THAT, DOES IT NEED TO BE, DOES IT NEED TO INCLUDE THE WORD REUSE OF A BUILDING AND CAN YOU DO THAT WITH ANY UH, I, I DON'T THINK IT, IT NEEDS TO, OUR PURPOSE IN PUTTING THAT IN WAS THAT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THIS BUILDING HAS BEEN, UH, VERY UNDER THESE TWO BUILDINGS HAVE BEEN REALLY UNDER UNDERUTILIZED FOR A LONG TIME.
AND, UH, THEY'VE BEEN SEARCHING FOR BUYERS AND, UH, HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND PEOPLE COMING HERE.
SO, UH, THAT'S WHY THAT WAS IN THERE.
I, I WOULD'VE TO THINK, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD, UH, INTERFERE WITH WHAT GLOVIS WOULD LIKE TO DO THERE IF THAT WERE REMOVED FROM THE, WE'RE NOT INCLUDED IN THE, IN THE AMENDMENT.
I MEAN THAT'S, I THINK ABOUT THAT, BUT I THINK I CAN TALK TO ZACH AND JEFF ABOUT THAT, BUT I THINK PROBABLY IT WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE IN THERE.
I THINK THAT IF ANYTHING THAT MIGHT MAKE MORE SENSE AS THE CRITERIA UNDER ANOTHER USE.
UM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IF, IF YOU WANTED TO INCLUDE THAT.
I, I DON'T THINK IT'S REALLY NECESSARY.
UM, I, I, I AGREE WITH THE OBSERVATION THAT IT'S VERY BROAD AND COULD BE PROBLEMATIC IF SOMEONE WANTS TO COME IN AND PROPOSE SOMETHING THAT MAYBE ISN'T OTHERWISE PERMITTED, BUT THEY SAY, HEY, WE'RE REUSING A BUILDING, SO, OKAY.
UM, IT MAY MAKE MORE SENSE TO JUST TAKE THAT OUT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT AS BEING CRITICAL TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING TO DO.
NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S CRITICAL TO WHAT THEY, THEY WANT TO DO THERE.
ANYTHING ELSE BY ANYBODY UP HERE?
[00:25:02]
ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE? OKAY.IF NOT, DO WE NEED TO TAKE FORMAL ACTION ON THIS OR NO, WE DON'T HAVE TO.
MORE DISCUSSION THEN? I MEAN, UNLESS KEVIN WANTS TO MAKE A MOTION THAT THEY REMOVE THAT LANGUAGE AND MOVE FORWARD.
DO WE NEED TO, WELL, I, I, I THINK THAT IF, IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A MOTION ABOUT WHAT YOUR ADVICE IS TO THE BOARD IN TERMS OF CONDUCTING THE HEARING AND, AND MAYBE ANY CHANGES, THAT'S FINE.
UM, OR JEFF, YOU CAN JUST HAVE IN THE MINUTES AND WELL INCLUDE IT IN THE REPORT TO THE BOARD.
I DON'T THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY EITHER WAY.
JUST INCLUDED AS PART OF THE MINUTES AND UH, THAT THE BOARD WILL, WILL SEE THOSE MINUTES AND PROCEED APPROPRIATELY.
STICKING WITH THE IO TWO THEME.
UM, ALLISON ZARO IS HERE FOR LENNAR HOMES AND, AND I'LL JUST REMIND YOU THAT LENAR BROUGHT A PLAN IN A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, A YEAR AGO, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, ABOUT THE SITE AT 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE TO CONVERT THE, THE LEVEL OF BUILDING AND PUT RESIDENTIAL THERE.
ALLISON ZARO FROM RILEY RYER ON BEHALF OF LENNAR THIS EVENING.
UH, WITH ME ARE MIKE DIMO FROM LENNAR AND EMILY STEWART WHO WAS THE PLANNER LOOKING AT THIS SITE.
UM, 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE IS JUST DOWN THE STREET, AS YOU KNOW, FROM THE SITE YOU WERE JUST LOOKING AT.
UM, AND AS JEFF MENTIONED, I WAS HERE, UH, WITH LENNAR, UM, SEVERAL MONTHS AGO TO INTRODUCE A SKETCH PLAN ON THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY, UM, WHICH IS 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE.
UM, AND SINCE THAT TIME WE'VE BEEN TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS A COUPLE OF TIMES AS WELL TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT, UM, RESIDENTIAL CONCEPTUALLY ON THE SITE.
SO I KNOW SOME OF YOU ARE ARE NEW TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION SINCE I WAS LAST HERE.
SO JUST TO GIVE AN OVERVIEW OF THE SITE, IT'S APPROXIMATELY AN 18 ACRE SITE.
UM, IT'S APPROVED WITH A FOUR STORY, UH, OFFICE BUILDING THAT IS CURRENTLY VACANT.
UH, THE, THIS WAS SORT OF TOUCHED ON IN THE LAST PRESENTATION, BUT THE PROVIDENCE CORPORATE CENTER IS ACTUALLY SUBJECT TO A MASTER PLAN FOR THE ENTIRE CORPORATE CENTER.
UM, THAT HAS BEEN AMENDED OVER THE YEARS AND THIS PARTICULAR SITE WAS APPROVED FOR A SECOND OFFICE BUILDING AND STRUCTURED PARKING ON THE SITE.
UM, THERE ARE ABOUT 500 SPACES TODAY, UM, AND IT WAS APPROVED FOR MORE THAT WAS NOT BUILT.
AND UM, OVER TIME THE CORPORATE CENTER HAS OBVIOUSLY CHANGED.
UM, YOU'LL SEE THE APARTMENTS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM THIS PARTICULAR SITE IN THE AREA, UH, THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN.
UH, LENNAR IS PROPOSING TO INTRODUCE ANOTHER RESIDENTIAL CONCEPT TO, UH, THE CORPORATE CENTER AND THE IO TWO DISTRICT AND SPECIFICALLY, UH, IT WOULD BE AN ATTACHED PRODUCT BUT IT WOULD NOT BE MULTI-FAMILY.
UH, WHEN WE WERE HERE IN THE FALL WE TALKED ABOUT AND WE PROPOSED 120 TRADITIONAL TOWN HOMES ON THE SITE.
UM, AND SINCE THAT TIME, WHAT, IN DISCUSSIONS WITH THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, UH, THEY WERE INTERESTED IN SEEING SOMETHING THAT, UH, WOULD BE MORE WITH THE, WITH THE CONCERN ABOUT SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN, MORE AGE TARGETED, UM, AND ALSO WITH A CONCERN ABOUT, UH, WHAT I'LL CALL EITHER ENTRY LEVEL HOUSING OR, UH, ATTAINABLE HOUSING.
UH, THAT THAT PLAN WAS THEN CHANGED AND RE REINTRODUCED TO THE BOARD BEFORE WE CAME BACK TO YOU TONIGHT WITH A MORE FORMAL PETITION.
SO, UH, THE PLAN THAT'S ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW IS THE MOST RECENT PLAN THAT WE SHOWED TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
THIS STILL SHOWS 120 TOWNHOUSE DWELLING UNITS, BUT THEY ARE DIVIDED INTO 84 STACKED TOWN HOMES.
AND TO BE PRECISE, THAT'S THE NUMBER OF UNITS, NOT THE NUMBER OF BUILDINGS.
I KNOW WE'VE HAD CONFUSION ON THAT IN THE PAST BUT NOT ON THE SITE.
UM, AND THEN THERE ARE 36 H TARGETED, UM, ATTACHED TOWN HOMES THAT ARE SHOWN, WE'RE CALLING THEM H TARGETED BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE SIZE OF A PROPOSED COMMUNITY THAT WOULD REACH THE LEVEL OF WHAT YOU WOULD SEE IN A TYPICAL ACTIVE ADULT COMMUNITY WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, MAJOR AMENITIES AND THAT KIND OF THING.
YOU NEED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DENSITY, UM, TO MAKE THAT WORK.
SO HERE THESE WOULD BE CHARTED WITH A MASTER DOWN UNIT.
UM, AND THEN THE STACK TOWN HOMES, UM, WE ACTUALLY DO HAVE, AND IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN SEEING A, A, NOT A PHYSICAL 3D MODEL, BUT I DO HAVE SLIDES THAT WE CAN WALK YOU THROUGH AND SHOW YOU WHAT IT IS.
I KNOW IN THE PAST WHEN I'VE BEEN HERE THERE HAVE BEEN SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW DOES A 10 STACK TOWNHOUSE ACTUALLY WORK.
[00:30:01]
UM, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN SEEING IT.BUT OVERALL WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING WOULD ADD AN ADDITIONAL RESIDENTIAL USE GROUP TO THE IO TWO DISTRICT.
THERE IS AN EXISTING RESIDENTIAL USE GROUP THAT IT TODAY THAT APPLIES IN THE IO TWO SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO THE APARTMENTS.
AND THIS WOULD BE, UM, ANOTHER RESIDENTIAL USE GROUP.
SO I'M HAPPY TO PAUSE HERE AND ANSWER QUESTIONS, JUST GET YOUR INITIAL REACTION.
UM, WE DID PROVIDE A FORMAL ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT, WHICH I CAN CERTAINLY WALK THROUGH, BUT I, I WOULD WANT TO PAUSE FIRST AND JUST UH, HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS IF YOU HAVE ANY.
SO THIS HAS ALREADY GONE THROUGH ZONING OR HASN'T GONE? NO, NO, THIS IS NOT OKAY.
UH, THE, THE, THE FIRST APPLICATION WE KIND OF LEFT A LITTLE BIT INFORMAL, THIS ONE BECAUSE IT IS MORE OF AN EXPANSIVE ORDINANCE.
ALLISON DID SIT DOWN AND WRITE IT.
IT GENERALLY LOOKS ACCEPTABLE FROM AN ORDINANCE FORMAT STANDPOINT.
I'VE NOT DONE A FORMAL REVIEW OF IT YET, WHICH I WILL DO BETWEEN NOW AND AND THE BOARD MEETING TO SEE IF I THINK THERE'S ANY CHANGES, WHICH I DOUBT THERE WILL BE, BUT, SO REALLY IT'S MORE ABOUT YOUR FEEDBACK IN GENERAL ON, YOU KNOW, THE CONCEPT OF HAVING SOMETHING HERE.
UM, INTRODUCING ANOTHER RESIDENTIAL USE TO THE DISTRICT.
WHAT DOES THE, YOUR PROPOSED RUG FIVE I THINK YES, UH, DISTRICT GIVE YOU THAT THE RUG TWO WOULD.
SO THE RUG TWO UM, PROVIDES FOR MULTI-FAMILY, WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING WE WOULD PROPOSE ON THE SITE.
UM, THE OTHER DISTINCTION WITH THE, WITH THAT RUG TOO.
UM, SO SOME OF THOSE AIRING BULK REQUIREMENTS, YOU KNOW, REALLY DON'T WORK FROM A TOWNHOUSE PERSPECTIVE.
I MEAN SOME OF THESE ARE MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN THOSE WOULD BE FOR MULTIFAMILY.
UM, THE OTHER THING ABOUT THE, THE MULTIFAMILY USE IS THAT IT WAS RESTRICTED IN LOCATION IN THIS DISTRICT TO WHERE YOU ARE BUTTING AN ARTERIAL ROAD.
AND UM, THIS PARTICULAR SITE AND THE OTHER PARCELS INCLUDING 200 400 THAT YOU JUST SAW, DO NOT, UM, ABOVE THAT IT WAS, IT WAS SOMEWHAT SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN FOR UM, THAT MULTIFAMILY DISTRICT.
BUT HERE, YOU KNOW, OUR IMPERVIOUS WE'RE KEEPING IN LINE WITH WHAT WAS ON THE SITE PREVIOUSLY.
WE'RE KEEPING OUR FOOTPRINTS, YOU KNOW, GENERALLY WHERE THEY ARE.
WE'RE USING EXISTING ACCESS TO THE SITE AND SO SOME OF THE THINGS, UH, THAT MAKE SENSE FOR THE TOWNHOUSE USES, UH, WOULD NOT BE EASILY TRANSFERABLE FROM THAT EXISTING DISTRICT OR USE I SHOULD SAY.
SO WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO RUG UH, TWO ON THIS SITE BECAUSE IT'S NOT ON AN ARTERIAL.
AND AS A RESULT YOU'RE PROPOSING A NEW DISTRICT THAT IS LOWER DENSITY MORE FITTING OF THE SITE.
MY GENERAL CONCERN WOULD BE THIS COULD CURRENTLY HOUSE POSSIBLY MORE RESEARCH, UM, TYPE COMPANIES, MANUFACTURING TYPE COMPANIES AND IT'S SORT OF THE AREA FOR IT.
WE'RE TAKING THAT AWAY AND WE'RE GOING RESIDENTIAL, WHICH UM, IS THAT THE BEST IN THE TOWN? I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT.
I WILL SAY ALSO THIS WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL USE IN THE DISTRICT.
SO OBVIOUSLY MY CLIENT IS INTERESTED IN DEVELOPING THE SITE, BUT IF FOR SOME REASON THAT WERE TO GO AWAY AND THIS WAS REZONED FOR THIS, IT'S NOT FULLY REZONING THE PROPERTY THOSE OTHER USES IN THE IO TWO DISTRICT WOULD STILL APPLY.
SO IF THE BOARD WERE TO ULTIMATELY, UM, ENACT BOTH PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE IO TWO DISTRICT, YOU WOULD STILL HAVE THAT OPTION FOR THE SITE.
BUT I WILL SAY THAT THE SELLER OF THE SITE, UM, HAD MARKETED THE SITE FOR A LONG TIME AND ENDED UP GOING IN THIS THIS DIRECTION.
IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT ANIMAL.
WE'RE NOT QUITE AS LONG, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE QUITE THAT ASSEMBLAGE, THAT 200 400 DOES.
JUST FROM AN INFORMATION PERSPECTIVE, COULD YOU SHOW US THE ISSUES ABOUT THE STACK HOUSING THAT YOU REFERENC? SURE, YEAH.
SO I KNOW THAT SOME OF YOU HAVE EITHER SAT THROUGH OR BEEN AT OTHER MEETINGS WHERE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT STACK TOWNHOUSES NOT ON THIS PARTICULAR SITE, AND THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW DO THEY ACTUALLY WORK AND HOW DO THEY FIT TOGETHER AND THAT'S HARD TO DESCRIBE JUSTIN WORDS.
UM, SO WE DO HAVE A COUPLE OF SLIDES AND MICHAEL WILL WALK YOU THROUGH 'CAUSE I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANT TO MESS IT UP.
HE CAN WALK YOU THROUGH HOW, HOW THAT ALL FITS TOGETHER IF YOU HAPPEN TO STILL HAVE THAT OR IF YOU DON'T.
I HAVE THE FLASH DRIVE WAS THAT, THAT WAS PER THE BOARD PRESENTATION.
YEAH, WELL WHILE YOU'RE PULLING THAT OUT, THOSE OTHER PERMITTED USES WOULD BE OFFICES OR TENANTS ESSENTIALLY, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO I MEAN THIS DISTRICT AS WAS TOUCHED ON EARLIER, IT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PRIMARY USE WAS OFFICE, BUT IT DOES ALLOW FOR SOME OF THE OTHER USES THE MASTER PLAN, YOU KNOW, WE
[00:35:01]
HAVE THE HOTELS THAT ARE THERE TODAY.UM, AND THERE'S, AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THE APARTMENTS ARE THERE, BUT, UM, IT, AND THEN IF THIS OTHER ORDINANCE WAS PASSED THAT WAS JUST DISCUSSED, THAT WOULD EXPAND IT FOR THAT RESEARCH AND MANUFACTURING USE AS WELL.
AND THEN YOU, YOU HAVE A, YOU ESSENTIALLY HAVE A RETAIL BUILDING THAT YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO SELL, SO CORRECT.
ONE OF THE MOST LIKELY, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY OTHER PERMITTED USE HASN'T BEEN SUCCESSFUL.
THE, THE BUILDING IS, IS VACANT AND IT'S BEEN VACANT FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW.
UM, IT DID HOUSE IRON, SORRY, IRON MOUNTAIN MOST RECENTLY IS WHAT THAT, THAT WAS THE TENANT IN THAT BUILDING.
DO YOU POINTER? UH, I DON'T THINK SO.
UM, SO I'M GONNA START OUT WITH THE STAT COUNT PRODUCT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
UM, THE WAY WE TALK ABOUT THEM INTERNALLY IS WE REFER TO THEM AS A LOWER AND A UPPER HOME SITE.
UM, THEY'RE IN A THREE STORY BUILDING AND THE, THE TWO HOME SITES SHARE THE SAME BUILDING AND I KIND OF THINK OF AS LIKE A TETRIS PIECE, HOW THEY CONNECT TOGETHER AND THEY INTERLOCK.
SO THE JACKSON IS THE LOWER HOME SITE OF THE TWO.
UM, IT'S A TWO BEDROOM, TWO AND A HALF BATHROOM FLOOR PLAN.
IT OCCUPIES THE WHOLE FIRST FLOOR AND THE FRONT HALF OF THE SECOND FLOOR, WHICH YOU CAN SEE RIGHT HERE.
UM, AND THEY HAVE THEIR OWN ONE CAR GARAGE AND THEIR OWN ENTRY.
UM, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, THIS IS THE PIPER, WHICH WE REFER TO AS THE UPPER HOME SITE INTERNALLY THAT OCCUPIES THE REAR PORTION OF THE SECOND FLOOR AND THE ENTIRE THIRD FLOOR.
UM, AND THAT ALSO, THAT IS A THREE BEDROOM FLOOR PLAN, TWO AND A HALF BATHS.
AND IT ALSO HAS TO SPEND ONE CAR GARAGE.
UH, YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, IT KIND OF LAYS IT OUT VISUALLY A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
THE, THE DARKER GRAY IS THE JACKSON AND THE LIGHTER SHADE IS THE PIPER AND YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THAT LAYOUT, HOW IT OCCUPIES THE FIRST FLOOR FOR LIVABLE SPACE.
AND YOU GO UP TO THE SECOND, IT'S SPLIT BETWEEN THE TWO.
AND THEN THE THIRD IS THE, UH, PIPER OCCUPIES THAT WHOLE AREA.
AND TO KIND OF PIGEON BACK OFF OF WHAT ALLISON SAID WITH THE, THE PRODUCT, WE LIKE IT 'CAUSE IT DOES HIT A LOT OF DIFFERENT BUYER PROFILES.
TYPICALLY M EMPTY NESTERS MOVE DOWN BUYERS AND ENTRY LEVEL BUYERS AND IT KIND OF STAYS AWAY FROM THAT TRADITIONAL FAMILY WITH TWO, THREE CHILDREN THAT ARE REALLY IMPACTING THE SCHOOLS WITH, UH, WITH SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN.
AND, AND IT'S REALLY A BENEFIT PROJECT AND IT ALSO, IT'S A PRODUCT THAT WE LIKE.
'CAUSE IT ALLOWS US TO BRING BRAND NEW CONSTRUCTION TO AN AREA AT OUR AREA, AFFORDABLE PRICE POINT.
AND THEN I BELIEVE THE NEXT SLIDE WE'LL JUST GET INTO THE AGE TARGET OF WE PLAN THAT ALLISON'S ALL ABOUT, WHICH OUR TAYLOR TOWN HOME THAT IS JUST A TRADITIONAL TOWN HOME, BUT IT DOES OFFER THE, UH, OWNER SUITE ON THE FIRST FLOOR, WHICH IS WHY WE TARGETED TO THAT, UH, BUYER PROFILE IS 55 PLUS.
AND WE TYPICALLY BUILD IT IN OUR AGE RESTRICTED COMMUNITIES.
UM, BUT WE WOULD DO THAT HERE AGAIN, WHICH WOULD STAY AWAY FROM THE TYPICAL BUYER PROFILE THAT WOULD HAVE SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN.
WHAT WOULD THAT BE? UM, RIGHT NOW WE'RE SELLING TODAY KNOWING THAT THIS IS YOURS DOWN THE ROAD, UM, IT'D BE IN THAT HIGH THREES TO THE LOWER FOURS FOR THE JACKSON FLOOR PLAN, UH, FLOOR PLAN, WHICH IS THE LOWER HOME SITE.
AND THEN THE UPPER HOME SITE WOULD BE IN THAT, USUALLY, USUALLY TYPICALLY SELL THAT 50 TO 70,000 HIGHER, WHICH WE PUT THAT IN THE MID FOURS.
UM, WHICH IS WELL BELOW WHAT, YOU KNOW, THE TYPICAL TOWNHOUSE OR TOWN SELLS IN UPPER PROVINCE.
NOW I BELIEVE THE BASE LEVEL WAS PILLOW AND RED REDFIN AND A COUPLE AREAS.
I THINK IT'S LIKE THE AVERAGE MEDIAN SALES PRICE WAS SIX 50 TO SIX 90 IN OVER PROVIDENCE.
SO IT DOES PROVIDE A VERY AFFORDABLE, BRAND NEW STRUCTURAL FLOOR PLAN TO THE AREA THAT IS NOT THERE.
ANY QUESTIONS? I HAVE MAYBE ONE MORE.
I CLEARLY DID A LOT OF READING BEFOREHAND.
TODAY,
UH, YOU KNOW, TO PROVIDE HOUSING CHOICES FOR EMPLOYEES, ET CETERA.
SO WITHIN THAT SENSE, YOU KNOW, THAT SENSE, I THINK THAT'S, THIS IS NOT A BAD PLACE FOR HOUSING BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF EMPLOYMENT AROUND THERE, BUT ALSO MORE IMPORTANTLY, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO DRIVE VERY FAR TO GET TO A HIGHWAY.
UM, YOU KNOW, YOU PUT IT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER SOUTH ON BRIDGE AND YOU'RE CAUSING PROBABLY ALL SORTS OF TROUBLE.
UM, IT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, INTERESTING TO KNOW IF, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE INTENT PART HERE AND TALKING ABOUT MIXED USE, LIKE THAT WHOLE AREA UP ON THE HILL ON
[00:40:01]
CAMPUS DRIVE, YOU KNOW, I THINK REALLY THE ONLY LIKE MIXED RETAIL COMPONENT OF IT WOULD BE THE KINDERCARE IN A SENSE, RIGHT? THERE'S NOT, IT'S HOUSING KINDRED CARE AND OFFICES.UM, SO, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE THAT LIVED HERE WANTED TO GET A CUP OF COFFEE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA DRIVE OUT ON A BRIDGE EITHER GOING TO PHOENIXVILLE OR MONTCLAIR DELI OR GO UP TO PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER, I THINK THERE'S A STARBUCKS IN THERE, RIGHT? SO LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, IS THERE ANY ROOM IN HERE AT ALL FOR, FOR MORE RETAIL SO THAT YOU MINIMIZE SOME OF THE TRAFFIC ALONG WITH THE INTENT? I DON'T KNOW.
UM, BUT I'M GUESS I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THAT.
OTHERWISE I THINK IT'S A NOT A BAD SPOT FOR HOUSING.
YEAH, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CONSIDERED INTERNALLY TO ADD A RETAIL COMPONENT TO IT.
UM, BUT IT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT OFFLINE.
BUT FOR, FOR US AND THE DEVELOPMENT PURPOSES, IT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING WE CONSIDERED, NOT SOMETHING WE DO EITHER.
UM, BUT WE HAVE HIRING PEOPLE IN THE PAST AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT FOR THIS SITE, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN CONSIDERED.
I LIKE ASKING SOME QUESTIONS ANYWAY.
I MEAN, I THINK, UH, THE PLAN LOOKS, LOOKS FINE AS IT IS, BUT I GUESS THE, THE HIGHER LEVEL QUESTION, YOU KNOW, IT KEEPS COMING UP THAT WE KEEP SEEING MORE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND WE'VE KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THE PRO PROLIFERATION OF, YOU KNOW, UH, VARIOUS HOUSING TYPES IN PARKHOUSE AND SOME OF THESE OTHER DEVELOPMENTS.
UH, SO THIS WOULD BE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY FOR, YOU KNOW, MORE, MORE RESIDENTIAL UNITS.
AND I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE FEEL ABOUT THAT? UM, YOU KNOW, OVERALL, UH, WHEN, UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A CHANGE TO THE ZONE, YOU KNOW, TO ZONING.
UH, IT ISN'T SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY WE WANT TO DO, UH, OR, YOU KNOW, WANT TO SUPPORT.
UH, SO IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.
YOU KNOW, WE, WE'VE HEARD THOSE ISSUES REPEATEDLY FROM THE COMMUNITY, BUT QUANTITY OF HOUSING TRAFFIC AND ALL THOSE RELATED ISSUES, JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.
UM, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH AGAIN, USING A VACANT BUILDING IS A GREAT THING, RIGHT? UM, I'M JUST WONDERING, YOU KNOW, TO YOUR POINT BOB, YOU KNOW, UM, IS THERE ANY OTHER USE, YOU KNOW, ANY OTHER, UH, USE THAT MIGHT BE PUT PUT THERE, BUT, UH, YEAH, THAT WAS PARTIALLY THE, THE NATURE OF MY QUESTION IS, BUT I, YOU KNOW, I KIND OF, YOU KNOW, IT, IT IS HARD TO LIMIT PEOPLE WANTING TO MOVE TO YOUR COMMUNITY.
NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE, RIGHT? AND SO YOU CAN'T GO A WALL AROUND UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP.
AND SO IN A SENSE IT IS, YOU KNOW, IF IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO MOVE, IF THERE'S, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS WOULDN'T BE BUILDING HOUSING IF THERE WASN'T DEMAND FOR IT, RIGHT? RIGHT.
HOW DO YOU BUILD THE TYPE OF HOUSING THAT LIMITS THOSE UNDESIRED EXTERNALITIES TRAFFIC, RIGHT? ET CETERA.
THE 99, I THINK IT STOPS THE 99 BUS ROUTE STOPS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE DEVELOPMENT.
YEAH, I THINK THAT'S THE NUMBER.
SO YOU KNOW NUMBER, BUT I KNOW THERE IS A BUS, RIGHT? THERE IS A BUS, YEAH.
WE WOULD HAVE TO CONFIRM THE NUMBER.
YES, THERE DEFINITELY IS A BUS.
SO PRESUMABLY SOME OF THESE FOLKS WOULD FIND THEIR WAY TO PHOENIXVILLE SOMETIMES FOR, YOU KNOW, A BITE TO EAT AND A DRINK.
WELL, BUT I'M PROBABLY NOT USING THE BUS.
WELL, I TAKE THE BUS AND I'M ONLY A COUPLE BUCKS.
BUT IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU, THIS IS WHERE, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S WHAT IS THE NATURE OF MY QUESTION AROUND, YOU KNOW, MORE MIXED USE AND IS, IS WHAT IS IN THE INTENT OF THIS DISTRICT AND SPECIFICALLY, YOU KNOW, EVEN MAKES THE CONNECTION IN THE TEXT TO WHY MIXED USE, WELL MIXED USE TO LIMIT TRAFFIC, RIGHT? AND SO, YOU KNOW, IF IF THERE'S GOING TO BE RESIDENTIAL SOMEWHERE, IS THERE A WAY TO DO IT WHERE IT LIMITS SOME OF THE, I DON'T KNOW, EXTERNALITIES ISN'T EXACTLY THE RIGHT WORD, BUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE, THAT THE COMMUNITY DOESN'T WANT.
SO AGAIN, ALSO BEING CLOSER TO THE INTERCHANGE IS A GOOD THING IN THAT SENSE TOO BECAUSE YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT DRIVING THROUGH OTHER ROADS TO GET TO AFFILIATE WORKING OR I, I GUESS THE OTHER THING, THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN IS, UM, IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY THAT THE ZONING AS IT, AS IT AS IT EXISTS ACTUALLY PERMITS APARTMENTS.
IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, THEY DON'T, THIS PARCEL DOESN'T MEET THE CRITERIA.
APARTMENTS ARE ALLOWED IN THERE, BUT THAT CRITERIA IS WRITTEN PRETTY STRICTLY, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, TO ONLY REALLY HAVE IT WHERE IT IS NOW.
ANY OF THE OTHER PARCELS IN THE PROVIDENCE CORPORATE CENTER, I DON'T THINK COULD DEVELOP, THEY'RE NOT LARGE ENOUGH WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH LINEAR FOOTAGE ON A COLLECTOR OR ARTERIAL ONE OF THE TWO.
AND SO I I, THE OPTION FOR THIS PARCEL AS IT STANDS TODAY IS, IS AN OFFICE USE.
[00:45:01]
I I, I'LL GO AGAIN WHAT I TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, WE HAVE HOW MANY THOUSANDS OF HOMES THAT AREN'T BUILT YET.SO I MEAN, IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE A CITY PRETTY SOON.
NOT TO MENTION THE TRAFFIC, MAYBE THEY'LL ALL TAKE THE BUS, BUT I DOUBT IT.
UM, SO IT, IT, I'M JUST GOTTA AIR THE CONCERN.
WELL THE OTHER ISSUE TOO THAT WE HAVE, WE CONTINUALLY TALK ABOUT WITH ANY KIND OF DEVELOPMENT WITH 120 UNITS OF FAMILY UNITS, YOU KNOW, WHAT ABOUT HOW MANY CHILDREN ARE GONNA BE OCCUPYING IN THIS AREA? SCHOOL BUSES ACCESS.
UM, AND THAT'S ANOTHER CONCERN I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE SHARE, UM, AND IT DOES SEEM LIKE A LOT OF, A LOT OF, A LOT OF HOUSING UNITS IN ONE, I THINK RELATIVELY SMALL FOOTPRINT IF YOU WILL.
SO YOU KNOW THAT, THAT, THAT IS A CONCERN.
I THINK THAT
WE DID HAVE A TRIP GENERATION ANALYSIS DONE WHEN WE FIRST WERE PROPOSING THIS, WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT THE, WHAT I'LL CALL THE TRADITIONAL 120 TOWN HOMES.
UM, AND THE OFF, IF THIS WERE A FULLY OCCUPIED OFFICE BUILDING, UM, BASED ON, YOU KNOW, ITE CALCULATIONS TODAY, AN OFFICE USE DOES GENERATE MORE TRAFFIC THAN THE RESIDENTIAL USE WOULD ON THAT WOULD ON THE SITE SITE.
SO YEAH, BUT, BUT THE COMMERCIAL USE IS USUALLY EIGHT TO FOUR.
YOU KNOW, THIS TRAFFIC, THIS TRAFFIC PATTERN IS A CONTINUOUS, MAYBE THAT'S NOT SO BAD, YOU KNOW, IT'S SPREAD OUT THROUGHOUT THE DAY IF YOU'LL RIGHT PEAK PERIODS, RIGHT.
BUT THAT TRAFFIC ISSUES ARE STILL A CONCERN.
UM, ALLISON, I HAVE A QUESTION.
DO YOU, DOES LENNAR HAVE, UM, OTHER DEVELOPMENTS OF THESE STACKED TOWNHOUSES? YES.
DO YOU HAVE, DO YOU HAVE DATA RELATED TO SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN? I MEAN, I KNOW MOST OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS YOU CAN KIND OF PULL SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS OUT IF THAT'S A CONCERN.
YEAH, WE, WE, WE BUILT THESE IN PHOENIXVILLE AT, UH, STEEL POINT.
UM, WE'RE BUILDING THEM CURRENTLY IN PHOENIXVILLE AT, UH, PHOENIXVILLE HEIGHTS AS A COMMUNITY ALSO, UM, IN PHOENIXVILLE WITH THE STAT PRODUCT.
I DO NOT HAVE ANY DATA OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD RIGHT NOW TO SPEAK TO, BUT SOMETHING WE COULD LOOK INTO AND, AND PROVIDE FOR SURE.
SEE, THE TRAFFIC STUDY WOULD ALSO BE INTERESTED TOO.
DESKS, BEDS, THEY ALL CREATE MOVEMENT ALSO.
HOW TALL ARE THESE STACK HOUSES STACK UNITS? UH, I WANNA SAY THEY'RE, THEY'RE 35 FEET HIGH TOTAL THREE STORY, NOT, DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT, BUT I THINK IT'S IN THAT RANGE.
ANY, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THIS GENTLEMAN? THANK YOU.
ALRIGHT, SO THIS WILL BE THE SAME SITUATION AS FAR AS I HAVE TO INTERRUPT FOR A SECOND.
I JUST GOT THE VIDEO SAYS THEY HAVING HARD TIME HEARING SOME OF YOU.
SO IF YOU COULD LEAN IN A LITTLE BIT AND SPEAK UP.
I'M SORRY, MR. PETERS, I KNOW YOU'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE MICS AND YOURS IS NOT.
WELL, I THOUGHT I WAS, WAS ON NOW I THOUGHT EARLIER IT WAS.
SORRY, WHO WAS IT? I DON'T KNOW.
I WON'T HAVE HIM TO DIVE ANYBODY OUT.
IF YOU COULD LEAN IN A LITTLE BIT.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE ISSUE IS.
I CERTAINLY CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
FI THINK THE ISSUE WAS IT WAS ACCIDENTALLY TURNED OFF.
DO YOU WANT TO MAKE ANY SORT OF RECOMMENDATION OR JUST WAIT TO SEE? I WOULD PROBABLY PREFER TO WAIT AND SEE.
I NEED MORE TO, TO BE POSITIVE AND I'M, I'M NOT REALLY NEGATIVE YET, SO I'M JUST GONNA LIKE TO SEE HOW THIS PROGRESSES.
WELL, AND I'M, WELL YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL.
WE ALREADY HAVE A LOT OF HOMES THAT ARE GONNA BE BUILT AND
[00:50:02]
THIS ISN'T JUST A HOME THAT'S BEING BUILT, THIS, THEY'RE DOUBLING, DOUBLING IT UP.SO I MEAN IT'S, IT'S EVEN MORE, RIGHT.
AND, AND I, I'LL COUCH WHAT I WAS SAYING, BUT JUST SAYING CHANGE THE LANGUAGE.
WHAT'S THAT? YOUR MIC'S NOT ON.
UM, SO NOW I'VE LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT COMPLETELY.
UM, I'M NOT LOOKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION ON APPROVING OR OR DENYING THE ORDINANCE CHANGE AT THIS POINT.
I'M MORE LOOKING LANGUAGE CHANGES OR IF, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU THINK THEY HAVE MORE WORK TO DO, UM, IN TERMS OF SOME FACTOR OF THE DEVELOPMENT.
UM, ANYTHING THAT YOU WANNA MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD PRIOR TO THEM APPROVING OR, OR GRANTING A HEARING.
IF THERE ISN'T ANYTHING THEN THERE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ANYTHING.
I'M, I'M NOT SAYING THERE, DOES WE, JUST TO MIRROR WHAT WE DID WITH THE LAST APPLICATION WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT THE LANGUAGE CHANGE A LITTLE BIT.
AND AGAIN, IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO BE A RECOMMENDATION.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF, YOU KNOW, WE ALL WERE TO SAY THESE ARE SOME OF THE EXTERNALITIES, I NEED A BETTER WORD THAN THAT, BUT THAT, THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO MINIMIZE FROM THE IMPACT OF SUCH A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
WE COULD PROPOSE CHANGES TO THE TEXT THAT MIGHT MITIGATE THOSE THINGS.
I CAN'T THINK OF AN EXAMPLE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT, YOU KNOW, LOSS OF TREES OR, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S REALLY ANY TREES THERE ALREADY 'CAUSE IT'S A PARKING LOT AND AN OFFICE BUILDING.
UM, BUT THOSE SORTS OF CHANGES.
AND, AND THERE AGAIN, THERE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE ANY, I THINK THEY'VE GOTTEN AMPLE FEEDBACK AND, AND SO THAT MIGHT BE ALL THAT YOU FEEL LIKE GIVING THEM AT THIS POINT.
I THINK WE'VE PROVIDED QUITE A BIT OF FEEDBACK.
I'M NOT SURE HOW WE COULD SUMMARIZE IT INTO VERY SPECIFIC ITEMS THAT WE NEED TO PASS ON TO THE BOARD THAT THEY NEED TO BE, UH, SPECIFICALLY, UH, INVOLVED WITH.
UH, I THINK, I THINK WE'VE EXPRESSED OUR CONCERNS AND I HOPE YOU'LL TAKE THEM TO, TO HEART AND MOVE FORWARD, UH, AS, AS THE PROCESS MOVES FORWARD.
UH, THE THIRD ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT IS FOR FIVE.
IT WAS BROUGHT FORTH BY THE OWNER, 5 9 2 SOUTH MENNONITE ROAD.
IT IS TO CHANGE THE R ONE DISTRICT TO CONCLUDE AS A CONDITIONAL USE OF AED USES AND I'LL LET MR. CLEMENT EXPLAIN IT.
I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT THIS EVENING.
I HAVE WITH ME TO OF THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVES IN THE REAR OF THE ROOM AS WELL AS OUR PROJECT ENGINEER.
UM, AND JUST TO SET THE STAGE A LITTLE BIT, THIS PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 5 92 SOUTH MITE ROAD, REALLY AT THE CORNER OF OLD STATE ROAD.
UM, THERE ARE PRECIOUS FEW OF THESE LEFT IN YOUR TOWNSHIP.
UM, THE IDEA BEHIND THE AGRI RETAINMENT ORDINANCE OR THERE PROPOSED CHANGES TO YOUR R ONE ZONING ARE TO ALLOW FOR THESE FARMS TO CONTINUE KIND OF IN THEIR EXISTING CONDITION, UH, PROVIDE FOR WHAT WE CALL AN REUSE, UH, WHICH IS REALLY AN ADAPTIVE REUSE OF THE EXISTING FARM BUILDING IN THIS CASE.
THERE'S A BANK BARN, UH, THAT WAS BUILT SOMETIME IN THE EARLY 19 HUNDREDS.
UM, IT'S VERY CLOSE TO OLD MENNONITE ROAD, UH, BEHIND THAT BANK BARN.
THERE IS AN OLDER, UH, HOME, WHICH IS THE MANOR HOUSE, UH, BUILT IN THE MID 18 HUNDREDS.
UH, THE CONCEPT WOULD BE TO BE ABLE TO USE THIS BANK BARN, UM, FOR BANQUETS, FOR WEDDING EVENTS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
UM, AND IN ORDER FOR THAT USE TO OCCUR IN THE R ONE DISTRICT UNDER WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING, UH, YOU WOULD HAVE TO AGAIN, ADAPTIVELY REUSE, UM, AN AGRICULTURAL BUILDING, UM, AND KEEP THAT AGRICULTURAL BUILDING IN PLACE.
UH, THERE IS IN YOUR R ONE ZONING CURRENTLY TODAY ALLOWED BY SPECIAL EXCEPTION, UH, I THINK IT'S A TENNIS CLUB OR A RACKET BALL CLUB.
UM, IN FULL DISCLOSURE, THE APPLICANT HAS KIND OF A TWO STEP PROCESS HERE THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO GO THROUGH.
UH, THE FIRST IS RELATIVE TO OBTAINING, UH, THIS, UH, CHANGE OF ZONING, UH, AND THEN ALSO TO BE ABOVE BOARD.
THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A PICKLEBALL CLUB HERE AS WELL.
UM, SO IF THE ORDINANCE WERE TO CHANGE, UH, THE NEXT STEP WOULD ALSO BE TO GO THROUGH A SPECIAL EXCEPTION PROCESS, SPECIAL EXCEPTION PROCESS, UM, FOR THAT PICKLE BALL CLUB AS WELL.
UM, AGAIN, WE DIDN'T WANT TO FEEL LIKE ANY OF YOU HAD THE WOOL PULLED OVER YOUR EYES, SO WE WANTED TO MAKE THAT DISCLOSURE.
UM, THAT IS REALLY NOT WHAT IS BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING.
UM, WE HAVE ENGAGED SEVERAL, UH, PROFESSIONALS TO LOOK AT THE OVERALL PLAN, UM, AS
[00:55:01]
WELL AS WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE TO THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORS.UM, THIS ORDINANCE TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION SOME BUFFERING, UM, AND IS AGAIN, BY CONDITIONAL USE.
SO, UM, IN THAT WAY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND YOURSELVES WILL BE ABLE TO RECOMMEND AND IMPOSE CONDITIONS UPON, UH, THE ULTIMATE USE OF THIS PROPERTY, UM, THAT WOULD ACCOMMODATE THINGS LIKE BUFFERING PARKING, UM, SIZE LIMITATIONS AND SO FORTH.
SO, UM, MR. GRACE, THAT'S ALL REALLY I HAVE.
THE ORDINANCE IS FAIRLY SIMPLE.
UM, SO WE WOULD WELCOME YOUR FEEDBACK IF I MAY 1ST.
WE'VE LOOKED AT IT INTERNALLY A LITTLE BIT.
WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH, WITH THE OWNER AND, AND ALL AND HIS PEOPLE FOR A COUPLE YEARS NOW.
NOT THAT HIS, NOT TO HIS PLEASURE, BUT THAT'S JUST THE WAY THE PROCESS HAS WORKED OUT.
UM, AND PART OF WHAT THE ASS ORDINANCE DOES FROM A TOWNSHIP PERSPECTIVE IS IT'S GOING TO MEMORIALIZE THOSE AGRO USES THAT ALREADY EXIST IN THE TOWNSHIP.
I'M SURE WE'VE ALL BEEN TO A RAIDERS OR AT LEAST KNOW OF A RAIDERS AND WHAT THEY DO THERE.
UM, WHAT OCCURS ON THAT SITE IS REALLY AN EXISTING NON-CONFORMITY.
THEY'VE JUST BEEN DOING IT ALL ALONG AND RIGGERS, WHILE THEY HAVE EXPANDED IT SOMEWHAT, THEIR BUSINESS HAS GROWN MORE THAN ACTUALLY EXPANDING THE USES.
THIS IS JUST GOING TO MEMORIALIZE IT FOR THEM AND FOR THIS PROPERTY OWNER TO ALLOW, YOU KNOW, GREATER LATITUDE UNDER THE ZONING FOR THINGS AND, AND LESS OF A PERMIT AND ADVERSARIAL PROCESS OF GOING BACK AND FORTH.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING? THIS SORT OF MEMORIALIZES ALL OF IT FOR MY ESTIMATION AT THIS POINT.
IF THIS WERE TO PASS, AND I'LL SHOW THIS MAP IN THE FUTURE, I DIDN'T MAKE IT FOR TONIGHT, THERE'S THREE PARCELS THAT WOULD REALLY APPLY TO THE RAIDER PIECE.
THIS PIECE, 5 9 2 SOUTH MITE ROAD AND THERE'S A, UH, AN AGRICULTURAL PROPERTY AT THE CORNER OF WARMAN AND TOWNSHIP LINE.
THE TOWNSHIP HELPED BUY THE PROPERTY RIGHTS FROM WITH THE COUNTY, AND THEY RUN A FARM STAND OUT OF THERE.
THEY'RE PROBABLY OUT OF THE THREE OF THEM, THE LEAST USED SITE, BUT THEY DO HAVE, THEY, AND UNDER THIS AUTHORSHIP, UNDER THIS WRITING, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO ALLOW TO EXPAND THEIR, THEIR USAGE.
THEY HAVEN'T COME TO US ABOUT IT, THEY HAVEN'T ASKED ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
THEY HAVEN'T, THEY EXPRESSED AN INTEREST IN DOING IT.
I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW THAT THOSE ARE THE THREE PLACES THAT IT PROBABLY COULD HAPPEN THAT WOULD AFFECT IN THE TOWN.
HOW CLOSE ARE THE COURTS TO THOSE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES? IS THAT FOX RUN GROUP? IS THAT WHAT THAT'S CALLED? THERE? THERE ARE NO PROPOSED COURTS RIGHT NOW, BUT IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT THIS PLAN, UM, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE COURTS WOULD BE INDOOR COURTS, UM, AND THEY'RE LOCATED TOWARDS THE REAR REAR OF THE PROPERTY COURSE.
THAT PROPERTY LINE WOULD HAVE TO BE BUFFERED.
WHERE, I'M SORRY ABOUT WHAT, WHAT ARE THE EXISTING OUTDOOR COURTS? THEY'RE TENNIS COURTS.
THEY WERE BILLED LATE EIGHTIES, EARLY NINETIES AND AND THEIR PRIVATE USE PRIVATE USE RIGHT NOW.
MY MY CONCERN IS WHERE THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY IS LOCATED, UH, UNLIKE ARAR OR WHICH IS RIGHT ON ONE 13, I MEAN, THIS PROPERTY IS KIND OF RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITIES AND, UM, IF IT WERE LIKE AN AAR, WHICH IS SEASONAL, IF YOU WILL, UM, CORE BASES, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT, UH, WEDDING VENUES, ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, UM, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT TRAFFIC NUMBER ONE.
UM, AND, UH, WEEKENDS ARE OPEN UNTIL 11:00 PM UM, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY IN TERMS OF, AND YOU SAID ABATEMENT? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.
UM, SO I'M, I'M REALLY CONCERNED OF WHERE THIS IS PHYSICALLY LOCATED AMONGST, UH, A LARGE RESIDENTIAL ENTITY, IF YOU WILL.
UM, YEAH, WE TALKED ABOUT AS PART OF OUR, UH, TRAFFIC PLAN ON MENNONITE ROAD, UM, IS A, IS GOING TO BE A COLLECTOR ROAD 80 FOOT WITH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT MENNONITE ROAD IS, WHERE THIS IS CURRENTLY LOCATED.
UM, SO THAT TO ME IS A TRAFFIC CONCERN.
UM, NOT JUST PARKING INSIDE THE ENTITY THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING, BUT, YOU KNOW, GETTING TO AND FROM AT ALL HOURS.
THAT, THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF CONCERNS I HAVE.
UM, THE, THE PICKUP ALL CORD, I, FROM
[01:00:01]
WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS GONNA BE ENCLOSED, SO THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT NOISE, BUT BEING AN ENCLOSED ENTITY THAT THAT SHOULDN'T BE CONCERN, I DON'T THINK IN AND OF ITSELF.I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THE WHOLE CONCEPT AND WHAT IT WILL BRING TO THAT, WHAT I CONSIDER A RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY.
AND UP UNTIL NOW IT'S BEEN A, I'LL STOP, I'LL CALL IT THE DOCILE AREA.
I MEAN, THERE'S THE POND AND THE BARN AND THE TENNIS COURTS, AND IT'S BEEN JUST A KIND OF A FAMILY THING IF YOU'LL, SO I'M JUST CONCERNED WHAT, WHAT THE PROPOSED ENTITY WILL BRING IN TERMS OF DISRUPTION TO THAT WHOLE RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY.
IT'S, IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE, MR. PETERS.
AND OF COURSE WE'D HAVE TO GO THROUGH A LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, UM, WITH RESPECT TO THE PICKLEBALL CLUB ASPECT, UH, OF THIS PROPOSAL, IF IT WERE TO MOVE FORWARD.
UM, I'M SO MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT THAT IN AND OF ITSELF SINCE IT'S QUOTE ENCLOSED.
I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THE WHOLE CONCEPT.
WE, WE, I, I APPRECIATE THE CONCERN.
I, I BELIEVE THAT THE, UH, I'LL JUST SPEAK TO THE PICKLEBALL PIECE FOR A MOMENT.
UM, THAT PIECE TO MY WAY OF THINKING IS CURRENTLY ALLOWED BY SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
SO ALL OF THE TRAFFIC CONCERNS THAT WOULD GO WITH THAT, ALL OF THE USE CONCERNS THAT WOULD GO ALONG WITH IT, UM, ARE SOMETHING THAT ARE ALREADY EXISTING IN THE ORDINANCE.
THAT'S NOT WHAT, BUT YOU, BUT YOU NEED A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR THE ZONING HEARING BOARD FOR THE PICKLEBALL, CORRECT? ABSOLUTELY.
AND WE WOULD STILL, IT, IT IS A TOTAL SEPARATE ENTITY AND WE WOULD STILL NEED THAT.
UM, WE'RE NOT PROPOSING TO MAKE ANY CHANGE TO THAT.
UM, SO WE ALL KNOW THAT, UH, A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS NEITHER SPECIAL OR EXCEPTION.
IT'S A PERMITTED USE THAT HAS REASONABLE CONDITIONS ATTACHED TO IT.
UM, SIMILARLY, YOU HAVE A CONDITIONAL USE PROCESS THAT WE ARE PROPOSING AS PART OF THIS ORDINANCE AS WELL, UM, WHICH WOULD ALLOW FOR THOSE CONDITIONS TO BE, TO BE ATTACHED TO WHATEVER USE WOULD GO IN HERE, UM, WHICH WOULD HOPEFULLY HELP TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE, WHAT I WOULD CALL MORE LAND DEVELOPMENT CONCERNS SUCH AS TRAFFIC, UM, PARKING, UM, AND, AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
SO, UM, I, I DO APPRECIATE THE CONCERN.
I, THIS IS A, A RESIDENTIAL AREA.
UM, THIS IS A SITE THAT COULD BE A SITE FOR, UH, MULTIPLE HOMES.
UM, THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO NOT HAVE THAT HAPPEN HERE.
UH, WOULD LIKE TO MORE RETAIN SOME OF THE, AGAIN, THE RURAL CHARACTER, THE AGRICULTURAL CHARACTER OF, OF THE BUILDINGS.
JUST A POINT OF PROCESS QUESTION, 'CAUSE I'M STILL PRETTY NEW HERE AND I KNOW WE'VE GOT A LOT OF, I THINK, NEIGHBORS FROM THE PROPERTY HERE.
WHEN, AT WHAT POINT DOES THE PUBLIC COMMENT ON AGENDA ITEMS HAPPEN? BECAUSE I HAVEN'T.
WELL THAT COULD COME RIGHT AFTER WE'RE FINISHED AFTERWARDS.
I I THINK THAT TYPICALLY THE PROCESS WOULD BE THEY WOULD MAKE THEIR PRESENTATION CLINIC COMMISSION WOULD ASK ANY QUESTIONS THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE, AND THEN WE WOULD OPEN UP THE PUBLIC COMMENT.
OH, NO, I WAS JUST CURIOUS 'CAUSE I, I SEE YOU ALL.
UM, AND THEN MY, UH, SECOND QUESTION, JUST 'CAUSE IT'S COME UP A COUPLE TIMES, YOU KNOW, INDIRECTLY, JUST SO THAT I UNDERSTAND WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US HERE IS A ZONING TEXT.
WELL, WE WOULDN'T BE MAKING THE AMENDMENT, BUT THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO ALLOW FOR ENTERTAINMENT SEPARATELY.
YOU WOULD NEED TO GO TO THE ZONING BOARD FOR THE SPECIAL USE EXEMPTION FOR THE PICKLEBALL COURTS.
SO WE'RE, SO, SO WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED AND TO OPINE ON, IF YOU WILL, IS LIMITED TO THE WEDDING VENUE AND CORN MAZES ESSENTIALLY.
DO I UNDERSTAND THAT CORRECTLY? THAT'S THE ZONING TEXT AND YOU'RE SORT OF LOOKING AT IT LIKE A REVERSE FORK IN THE ROAD.
THERE'S THE, THE, THE ENTERTAINMENT, WHICH THE CORN MAZES AND EVERYTHING THAT WOULD GO ON THERE.
AND THE PICKLEBALL THAT'S WITH THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
EVENTUALLY THE TWO WILL MEET ONCE ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THEY GET THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND ON THE ASSUMPTION THEY GET THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION, THE TWO WILL MEET IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION FOR THE TENTATIVE AND CONDITIONAL USE AND ALL THAT.
AND THAT WILL, ONCE THAT SORT OF MEETS UP, THE WHOLE PROCESS WILL RUN TOGETHER.
BUT WE'RE NOT, BUT WE'RE NOT BEING ASKED TO APPROVE ANYTHING TONIGHT.
NO, YOU'RE NOT BEING EVEN ASKED FOR RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT.
THIS IS REALLY, BECAUSE THIS HAS ALL BEEN DISCUSSIONS OUTSIDE OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION WITH ME AND MY STAFF, AND THEN THE SOLICITOR, YOU, YOU ARE REALLY BEING INTRODUCED TO IT.
I DON'T WANNA DROP THIS ON YOU AND SAY, OKAY, PLEASE MAKE YOUR RECOMMENDATION.
I MEAN, SAME THING WITH THE AUDIENCE.
I WANT THE AUDIENCE TO HAVE PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.
AND SO THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S PART OF THIS.
AGAIN, THIS WILL BE ON OUR AGENDA WILL BE ON THE BOARD AGENDA ON THE 17TH OF THIS MONTH.
AND IF THEY ARE GIVEN A HEARING DATE OF APRIL 22ND, THEY'LL BE ON OUR AGENDA AGAIN FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON APRIL 2ND.
SO, SO THIS IS KIND OF FALLS WITH THE SAME CATEGORY AS OUR PREVIOUS YEAH.
WE COULD RECOMMEND, NOT RECOMMEND OR WHATEVER.
TECHNICALLY HE HAS THE CONDITIONAL USE IN THE TENTATIVE LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION
[01:05:01]
IN PROCESS, BUT I'VE BEEN GIVEN THE WAIVERS AND WE'RE NOT TAKING ANY ACTION ON THEM.I HAVEN'T ASKED ANYBODY TO REVIEW THEM.
I'VE REALLY JUST DISTRIBUTED THE APPLICATION.
OUR INTENT WAS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE FULL PICTURE WAS, THAT WE WERE NEVER ACCUSED OF TRYING TO HIDE THE WALL.
IT'S, IT'S TRUE THOUGH THAT THE, THE LANGUAGE CHANGE WILL EVENTUALLY PERMIT THEM TO MAKE, UH, THE, THE SORT OF THE PLAY FOR THE PICKLEBALL.
IS THAT RIGHT? NO, THE LANGUAGE CHANGES.
IT IS SORT OF INDEPENDENT OF THE PICKLE BALL.
THAT LANGUAGE IS ALREADY IN THE ORDINANCE.
UM, THERE MIGHT BE SOME THINGS IN TERMS OF BUFFERING THAT SORT OF RELATE, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT FOR THAT.
BUT THERE ISN'T ANYTHING SPECIFIC IN THE ORDINANCE TO ALLOW THEM, SO IF THE ORDINANCE PASSES AND THEY DON'T GET THEIR SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR WHATEVER REASON, THE CAN STILL MOVE FORWARD.
AND ON THE, THE, THE BUFFERING POINT, AND I CAN SAY THIS IS SIMILAR, WHO GOT MARRIED AT AN AGGREGATING VENUE, UH, IN VIRGINIA IS QUITE LOUD.
UM,
UM, BUT YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M A POLISH AMERICAN, SO WEDDINGS ARE VERY LOUD.
UM, AND THERE WAS A LOT MORE LAND, YOU KNOW, SEPARATING THE FARM FROM THE REST OF IT.
YOU KNOW, I'M CURIOUS, YOU KNOW, FOR MY OWN IDENTIFICATION, YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THIS INTERACT WITH, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I SEE FOR EXAMPLE, IN YOUR PROPOSED TEXTS YOU HAVE, UH, TIME LIMITATION, RIGHT? EVENTS SHALL BE LIMITED OR PERMITTED ON WEEKDAYS BETWEEN EIGHT AND 9:00 PM 8:00 AM AND 9:00 PM AND WEEKENDS AND EIGHT TO 11, YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THAT INTERACT WITH THE LINE OR NOT ALIGN WITH THE, PRESUMABLY THERE'S A NOISE ORDINANCE AS WELL.
OUR NOISE ORDINANCE IS QUITE ANTIQUATED.
AS MOST OF THEM ARE IN THIS AREA.
THERE, IT'S STILL REFERENCES, STEAM WHISTLES AND, UM, MECHANICAL, SOMETHING ELSE TO THIS
PART OF THE ISSUE WITH, WITH NOISE ORDINANCES AND TO HAVE A, UH, AN ORDINANCE LIKE THAT, YOU REALLY NEED TO HAVE A WAY OF MEASURING WHAT THE IMPACT IS.
AND SO THAT WOULD MEAN IF THERE WAS AN IMPACT AT 11 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT, SOMEONE WOULD'VE TO GO OUT THERE WITH A TOTER, I THINK IS THE TERM THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO OUT THERE AT THAT TIME AND MEASURE IT.
SO THAT WHICH WOULD END UP BEING ME AND I WOULD HAVE TO TESTIFY TO WHAT THAT NUMBER WAS DURING THE PROCESS.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THE TOWNSHIP SHOULDN'T LOOK AT.
WE SHOULD LOOK AT UPDATING SOME OF THOSE ORDINANCES AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THEM INTERNALLY.
WE JUST, IT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A CHALLENGE BETWEEN NIGHT BETWEEN LIGHT ORDINANCES AND NOISE ORDINANCES, BASICALLY THE NUISANCE ORDINANCES, SMELL TRASH, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SOME OF IT FROM OUR STANDPOINT, FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING AND BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS REALLY JUST WHEN WE HAVE AN ISSUE, WE GO OUT AND WE TALK TO THE PROPERTY OWNER.
WE SAY, HEY, YOU NEED TO FIX THIS.
AND WE'LL BE PERFECTLY BLANK OR BLUNT WITH 'EM AND SAY, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRES YOU TO FIX IT, BUT YOU LIVE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU LIVE IN THIS TOWNSHIP, WE WANT YOU TO FIX IT.
THAT ENDS UP WORKING WITH TRASH MORE THAN ANYTHING.
BUT THAT'S WHAT WE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S HOW WE APPROACH IT FROM A TOWNSHIP STANDPOINT.
UM, QUESTION I HAVE IS I SEE THREE LOTS UP ON THE ONE SIDE.
I ASSUME THAT THEY ARE FROM THE PAST? THEY ARE FROM THE PAST.
AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER ONE DOWN HERE, WHICH IS BIGGER LOT, RIGHT.
THIS DEVELOPMENT, THE THREE LOTS.
AND THE, THE FARM PARCEL WAS PART OF A, OF A DEVELOPMENT BACK IN THE LATE NINETIES CALLED COP QUAKER, THAT THAT SUBDIVIDED FOX RUN AND EVERYTHING SORT OF SOUTH OF MENNONITE ROAD.
THAT WAS THE SUBDIVISION PROCESS FOR THAT ONE, JUST AS A POINT PERIOD.
BUT THIS PROPOSAL IS EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THE BLUE LINE.
THIS IS ONLY FOR THE BLUE LINE.
AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, THERE'S EVERYTHING.
TO BE CLEAR, THE, THE VENUE IS THIS, THIS IS THE BARN BANK, THE EXISTING BANK BARN.
UH, THAT IS, WE'RE TALKING WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BEING THE AED, THE VENUE.
AND THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT IT IS, UH, YEARS AGO IT WAS USED AS A, UH, REGIONAL SQUARE DANCING VENUE,
UM, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THERE WERE SQUARE DANCING PARTIES HELD THERE.
UM, ALSO TODAY, UH, I BELIEVE UNDER YOUR ORDINANCE BY SPECIAL, UM, EVENT PERMIT, UM, ANY PROPERTY OWNER IS ALLOWED TO HOLD A LARGE PARTY AT THEIR PROPERTY, INCLUDING HERE.
UM, AND IN FACT, I THINK ON OCCASION THERE HAS BEEN ONE HERE, UH, IN THE PAST, YOU JUST CAN'T REGULARLY GET REVENUE FROM IT.
UM, IS THERE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? IF NOT, WE'LL GO TO THE AUDIENCE.
NOW WE HAVE DO ONE OR TWO AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
NAME, ADDRESS, I'LL INTO THE MIC SO EVERYBODY CAN HEAR YOU.
[01:10:01]
MY NAME IS MELISSA CHEN.I LIVE AT ONE 12 PLEASANT LANE, WHICH WOULD BE COVERED BY THAT BLUE BLOCK ON TOP.
UM, AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, THERE ARE HOMES UNDER THIS BLUE BLOCK ON THE BOTTOM AS WELL WHERE THE LIGHT FROM THE BARN WOULD COME DIRECTLY INTO THEIR FRONT YARDS.
UM, BUT I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT THE PICKLE BALL IS NOT ALL INDOOR.
THERE ARE TWO PROPOSED LARGE OUTDOOR COURTS AS WELL.
AND I THINK A LOT OF THE NEIGHBOR'S CONCERNS IS THE EIGHT TO 11:00 PM CONS, WHICH HAS I THINK BEEN PROVEN TO DEVALUE HOME VALUES BY LIKE 10 TO 20% JUST IN CASE THEY WANT TO RESELL.
BUT THAT WAS, IT WAS JUST A POINT OF CLARIFICATION IS, IS THAT TRUE THAT THERE ARE PICKLEBALL COURTS OTHER THAN THE ONES INSIDE THE RACK? INSIDE, INSIDE THE FACILITY ITSELF? I JUST HEARD TO FIND OUT THEY ONE SIGN.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP YOU HAVE UP THERE, PUT THE OTHER ONE BACK UP.
UM, SO WE HAVE A PROPOSED INDOOR BUILDING THAT WILL HOUSE SIX INDOOR KNUCKLE BALL COURTS.
AND THEN RIGHT THERE WHERE THAT EXISTING TENNIS COURT IS, THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN TURNED INTO FOUR PICKLEBALL COURTS FOR PERSONAL USE.
THEY DON'T GET USED RIGHT NOW.
AND THEN WE HAVE, UM, PROPOSED FOUR MORE BETWEEN THE INDOOR FACILITY AND THE BANK BARN THOUGHTFULLY POSITIONED KIND OF IN THE CENTER OF THE 12 ACRES.
SO THERE WILL BE LIKE SIX EXTERNAL PICKLEBALL COURT, EIGHT L EIGHT EXTERNAL.
AND SO ARE THOSE, SORRY JEFF, UH, AND GIVE YOU THOSE EXISTING PICKLEBALL COURTS ARE ALREADY A PERMITTED USE IN R ONE? NO, IT'S, IT IS, IT IS LIKE A PRIVATE TENNIS COURT.
HE JUST PAINTED THE LINES DIFFERENTLY.
HE DOESN'T, HE'S NOT, AT LEAST I'VE NEVER BEEN TOLD THAT THERE'S REVENUE OR THAT THERE'S PEOPLE THERE.
EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE THERE.
YOU KNOW, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THAT, THAT WE'VE BEEN TOLD ABOUT IT OR THAT WE'VE SEEN ON SITE.
SO THE DIFFERENCE WOULD BE IF IT WERE COMMERCIAL, THEN MR. GAMBONE IS, IS LOOKING TO RUN OR MS. SCOTT, EXCUSE ME, IS ARE, ARE THEY ARE LOOKING TO RUN A CLUB THERE AND THERE WILL BE CLUB FACILITIES WITH THAT AS WELL.
I THINK THOSE ARE THE, THE ORANGE, SOME OF THE ORANGE BUILDINGS.
AND THAT'S WHERE THE, THE ZONING BOARD WOULD NEED TO GRANT SPECIAL USE EXEMPTION.
TO ALLOW FOR THE COMMERCIAL USE OF THE PICKLEBALL COURTS.
INSIDE THAT RACKED BALL COURT, THE ONE, THE PICKLEBALL COURTS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE, THEY'RE GONNA BE THERE.
NOTHING, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU, ONCE WE HAVE, ONCE THE WHOLE CONCEPT IS APPROVED, THEY'LL BE THERE, PERIOD.
WELL, ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THAT'S WHAT, HOW THE LAND DEVELOPMENT THAT THEY GET THE APPROVALS THEY NEED RIGHT AWAY.
AND THEN THAT'S HOW THE LAND DEVELOPMENT WORKS THROUGH THE PROCESS.
I MEAN, WITH ANYTHING ELSE, THERE'S, THIS IS TENTATIVE, IT'S A PROOF OF CONCEPT.
IF WE GET TO THAT LEVEL, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT CAN'T CHANGE BASED ON YOUR RECOMMENDATION BASED ON THEIR ONSITE EVALUATIONS, ENGINEERING A LOT OF THAT STUFF.
AND JUST TO NOTE, UM, WE GOT A SOUND REPORT DONE BY A PRETTY LARGE FIRM THAT HAS BEEN RECOGNIZED, UH, NATIONWIDE.
UM, AND WE HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS WITH NEIGHBORS.
WE HAD A COUPLE MEETINGS AND IN A PRIVATE MEETING, ONE OF OUR NEIGHBORS WAS LIKE, THIS IS LIKE REALLY OPTIMISTIC.
AND SHE DID SOME OUTSIDE RESEARCH AND SHE WAS LIKE, I THINK YOU SHOULD ENGAGE THE SERVICES OF THIS SOUND MITIGATION COMPANY.
SO I HAVE TWO SOUND STUDIES TEED UP FOR THIS.
UM, AND I, I WENT BY RADNER TOWNSHIPS DECIBEL LEVEL, WHICH IS 60 DECIBELS.
AND THAT WAS THAT THOSE DECIBELS WERE RATED ON THE PICKLE BOWL OR ON ON THE PICKLE BOWL.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH IT OR NOT, BUT THERE'S A VERY LARGE DEVELOPMENT RIGHT OUTSIDE PHOENIXVILLE, I GUESS IT'S A S THEY'RE BUILDING A SCHOOL THERE RIGHT NOW, AS A MATTER OF FACT TOO, A NEW SCHOOL.
BUT THE DEVELOP, THERE'S A DEVELOPMENT THERE THAT TOLL BROTHERS PUT IN AND IT IS BIG.
AND, UH, THEY HAVE PICKLEBALL AND THE, THE, THE ASSOCIATION IS DEALING WITH THAT NOW.
IT IS SO NOISY TO ALL THE NEIGHBORS AND THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH IT.
AND IT'S, IT'S AN EXISTING ISSUE AT THIS POINT SINCE THAT DEVELOPMENT'S BEEN THERE, I GUESS 5, 5, 6, 7 YEARS.
SO YEAH, I MEAN IT'S DEFINITELY, THE NOISE IS AN ISSUE.
WE'RE NOT TRYING TO HIDE THAT.
WE'RE TRYING TO HAVE THE THOUGHTFUL CONVERSATIONS LIKE WE, WE HAVE BEEN.
THIS, THIS IS THE FIRST, UH, THE FIRST ITERATION OF THIS PLANNED.
THERE WERE NO OUTDOOR PICKLEBALL COURTS EXCEPT FOR, UM, THE INDOOR COURTS RATHER.
UM, IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THOSE COURTS DO NOT HAVE LIGHTS EITHER.
[01:15:01]
NO LIGHTING PROPOSED ON THOSE PICKLEBALL COURTS THAT ARE OUTSIDE.UM, SO I THINK THE HOURS OF OPERATION WOULD BE QUITE LIMITED BY DAYLIGHT.
ARE YOU GOING TO INSTALL LIGHTS ON THAT? SOMETHING? YOU'LL HAVE TO COME UP TO MIC.
I HEARD THE QUE I JUST TO SAVE YOU THE TRIP.
I HEARD THE QUESTION BEING, ARE YOU PROPOSING TO INSTALL LIGHTS ON THOSE COURTS? THE ANSWER IS RIGHT NOW, NO.
IS IT DOWN THE FUTURE? YOU GONNA PUT LIGHTS ON FOR NIGHTTIME? THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO PLANS.
FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THAT THE TOWNSHIP WOULD NEED TO APPROVE THAT.
UM, RIGHT NOW, NO, THERE'S NO, AND I, WHY I'M SAYING RIGHT NOW IS THERE IS NO PLAN TO PUT LIGHTS ON THOSE GET, WE'LL PUT LIGHTS ON THERE SEPARATE.
THERE WOULD BE A TOTALLY SEPARATE GROUP.
IT, IT'S SIMILAR TO WHAT HAPPENED WITH BO JOHN PAUL.
THEY PUT, THEY BUILT THE SCHOOL.
THEY CAME BACK FIVE TO EIGHT TO 10 YEARS AFTER THE SCHOOL WAS IN AND DECIDED TO PUT THE STADIUM UP.
THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH A SEPARATE PROCESS FOR BOARD APPROVAL FOR THE LIGHTS.
AND THEN ARE YOU GONNA PUT ANY BUFFER FOR THE NOISE AT, AT THIS POINT I'M GONNA HAVE TO HAVE YOU PUT YOUR NAME IN.
I, I, I, YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE WE TRIED, BUT YOU'LL HAVE, HAVE PUT YOUR NAME AND ALL THAT STUFF IN.
I LIVE UNPLEASANT LANE RIGHT DOWN THE STREET, RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO HER.
YOUR ADDRESS? ONE 18 PLEASANT LANE.
WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE NOISE THAT'S GONNA BE COMING FROM THAT DAY AND NIGHT NOISE DOES TRAVEL AND, UM, WE DON'T WANNA BE HEARING THAT ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT.
IT'S WOULD BE RATHER ANNOYING TO LISTEN TO THAT.
IT'S PEACEFUL, IT'S BEEN QUIET.
I'VE BEEN HERE FOR FOUR YEARS AND WHEN THE COPS LIVED THERE, THAT WAS A PRIVATE TENNIS COURT THAT THEY USED FOR THEIR PERSONAL USE AND DIDN'T RENT IT OUT OR DIDN'T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
IT WAS ALWAYS DONE SOME PRIVATE QUIET.
SO WE WOULD LIKE TO KEEP IT LIKE THAT.
HI, MY NAME'S NANCY CROCKETT AND I LIVE AT 1 36 FOX RUN DRIVE DIRECTLY BEHIND THE, UM, THE GREEN RIGHT THERE.
UM, UH, AND IT'S, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE EIGHT OUTDOOR PICKLEBALL COURTS AS WELL AS INDOOR COURTS.
AND WHILE I DO UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF RECREATIONAL FACILITIES FOR OUR COMMUNITY, I'M HERE TO EXPRESS MY STRONG OPPOSITION TO THIS PROJECT AND TO ASK YOU TO DENY THE REQUEST FOR A ZONING ORDINANCE CHANGE.
ALLOWING FOR RETAIN WITH A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR A RACKET CLUB IS A COMBINATION OF AGRICULTURE AND ENTERTAINMENT THAT TAKES PLACE ON A FARM.
IT CAN INCLUDE ACTIVITIES LIKE HAY RIDES, CORN MAZES, AND PUMPKIN PATCHES.
AGRI CAN ALSO INCLUDE EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCES SUCH AS FARM TOURS AND WORKSHOPS.
PICKLEBALL IS NOT AGRI IN ANY FORM.
IT SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
PICKLEBALL IS A SPORT KNOWN FOR ITS HIGH NOISE LEVELS DUE TO CONSTANT STRIKING OF PADDLES AGAINST HARD PLASTIC BALLS LEADING TO NOISE POLLUTION.
STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT PICKLEBALL COURTS CAN GENERATE NOISE LEVELS OF, OF UP TO 70 DECIBELS FROM OVER THREE BLOCKS AWAY IN EVERY DIRECTION, WHICH IS COMPARABLE TO THE SOUND OF A VACUUM CLEANER WASHING MACHINE RUNNING CONSTANTLY.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE PICKLE BALL, PADDLE AND BALL PRODUCE UP TO 900 INTENSES AND HIGHLY ANNOYING POPS PER HOUR PER COURT.
THOSE JARRING POPS PREVENT NEIGHBORS FROM ENJOYING PEACE OF MIND IN THEIR OWN HOMES TO WHICH EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT.
THIS LEVEL OF NOISE IS NOT CONDUCIVE TO A RESIDENTIAL AREA.
RESIDENTS, UM, ARE REPORTING A RANGE OF HEALTH CONCERNS ATTRIBUTED TO THIS TROUBLING SOURCE OF NOISE POLLUTION.
THIS INFORMATION CAN BE FOUND ON PICKLE BOWL, NOISE.COM.
I HAVE A HANDOUT FOR YOU FROM A NOISE CONTROL PROJECT RESEARCHING RESIDENT COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE SOUND PRODUCED BY PICKLEBALL.
MANY RESIDENTS ARE SUFFERING FROM SYMPTOMS RELATED TO CHRONIC EXPOSURE TO PICKLEBALL NOISE.
BUT I WOULD LIKE TO READ SEVERAL OF THE COMMENTS FROM IT ALL MADE FROM DIFFERENT COMMENTATORS.
ONE PERSON WRITES, THE ANXIETY OF THE NOISE IS MAKING ME SINK INTO A DEEP DEPRESSION.
I DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE MY HOME OF 43 YEARS.
ALSO, PEOPLE CAN HAVE FUN PLAYING A GAME.
IT IS BECOMING MORE THAN I CAN HANDLE.
ANOTHER ONE WRITES, IT DOESN'T LET ME ENJOY GOING OUT IN MY YARD.
ANOTHER ONE SAYS, THIS IS LIKE CHINESE WATER TORTURE.
[01:20:01]
AND VOLUNTARY NOISE TORTURE EXPERIMENT.RAN IT WHOLE COURSE NOW PLEASE STOP IT.
IT'S A SERIOUS THING WHEN YOU HEAR THINGS WHICH ARE NOT REAL.
EVERY SINGLE MORNING WHEN I WAKE UP, I WAS THINKING ABOUT ANOTHER TORTURE DAY.
I HAVE BEEN TORTURED EVERY SINGLE DAY.
AND ANOTHER ONE, THAT CONSTANT NOISE NOISES LED TO HEADACHES, MENTAL DISTRESS AND LOSS OF SLEEP IMPACTING THEIR DAILY LIVES SIGNIFICANTLY.
MY DAD IS A VIETNAM VETERAN AND THE CONSTANT POP, POP, POP SOUND HAS TRIGGERED PTSD NOISE POLLUTION HAS BECOME SUCH A HEALTH CONCERN THAT MANY STATES ARE NOW IMPOSING NOISE ORDINANCES, AS YOU KNOW.
AND I HAVE LISTED THOSE ORDINANCES A HANDOUT FOR YOU AS WELL.
AND A LOT OF THESE ARE RELATED TO PICKLEBALL.
THE NEW YORK TIMES SAYS SPORTS CAN PRODUCE ALL KINDS OF UNPLEASANT NOISES, REFEREES, WHISTLES, RANK, WRIST, BOOZE AND HORNS.
BUT THE MOST GRADING AND DISRUPTIVE SOUND IN THE ENTIRE ATHLETIC ECOSYSTEM RIGHT NOW MAY BE THE STACCATO POP, POP POP EMANATING FROM AMERICA'S RAPIDLY MULTIPLYING PICKLEBALL COURTS.
THE SOUND IS BROUGHT ON A NATIONWIDE SCOURGE OF AFRAID NERVES AND UNNEIGHBORLY CLASHES.
AND THOSE IN TURN HAVE ELICITED PETITIONS AND CALLS TO THE POLICE.
AND LAST DITCH LAWSUITS AIMED AT LOCAL PARKS, PRIVATE CLUBS, AND HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS THAT RUSHED TO OPEN COURTS.
DURING THE SPORTS RECENT BOOM, THE HUBBUB HAS GIVEN NEW MEANING TO THE PHRASE RACKET SPORT TESTING THE SANITY OF ANYONE WITHIN EARSHOT OF GAME.
IT IS LIKE HAVING A PISTOL RANGE IN YOUR BACKYARD.
SAID JOHN MANCINI 82 WHOSE WELLESLEY, MASSACHUSETTS HOME ABUTS A CLUSTER OF PUBLIC COURTS.
SOUND MITIGATION HAS GROUPED INEFFECTIVE IN ADEQUATELY CONTROLLING THIS UNHEALTHY NOISE POLLUTION.
THE PROPOSED LOCATION DIRECTLY BEHIND MY HOME WOULD SUBJECT MY FAMILY AND NEIGHBORING RESIDENTS TO PERSISTENT NOISE FROM EARLY MORNING UNTIL LATE EVENING.
THIS WOULD SIGNIFICANTLY DISRUPT OUR PEACE, QUIET HEALTH AND OVERALL QUALITY OF LIFE.
THE CONSTRUCTION OF PICKLEBALL COURTS IN SUCH CLOSE PROXIMITY TO OUR HOMES COULD HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON OUR PROPERTY VALUES AS WELL, POTENTIALLY.
UM, AFTER YOU'RE FINISHED, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A THREE MINUTE MAXIMUM TIME.
BECAUSE WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T ALLOW YOU TO GO ON 15, 20 MINUTES.
YOU KNOW, THERE COULD BE ONE TO SPEAK ALSO.
YEAH, I, I I ALSO JUST WANT TO CLARIFY AGAIN, THE MATTER BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION RIGHT NOW HAS NOTHING REALLY TO DO WITH THE PICKLEBALL COURT OR THE PICKLEBALL USE.
THAT'S A SEPARATE APPLICATION.
THIS IS JUST FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT ASPECT.
DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS RELATED TO ENTERTAINMENT? UM, WELL JUST, I DON'T MIND THE ENTERTAINMENT.
UM, SO LONG AS THAT'S NOT GOING TO OPEN UP THE POSSIBILITY FOR THE PICKLEBALL.
THEY'RE COMPLETELY SEPARATE USES.
THEY'RE NOT DEPENDENT ON EACH OTHER.
THEY CAN GO FORWARD WITH THE PICKLEBALL.
THEY COULD MOVE FORWARD WITH THE TAINMENT WITHOUT DOING THE PICKLEBALL.
THEY'RE NOT DEPENDENT ON ONE ANOTHER.
THAT SAID, I I, YOU KNOW, SO I DIDN'T SHARE THIS BEFOREHAND, BUT IN A PRIOR JOB, I HOPE SAW A FEDERAL AGENCY THAT AMONG OTHER THINGS THAT UM, IT ENFORCED A NOISE, THE FEDERAL NOISE REGULATIONS MM-HMM
UH, AND AS PART OF THAT ROLE, I WENT AND MET WITH A LOT OF, UH, TYPICALLY LOWER INCOME FOLKS THAT LIVED IN MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS NEXT TO HIGHWAYS.
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN, YOU CAN PICTURE ONE, YOU'VE PROBABLY SEEN IT SOMEWHERE BEFOREHAND MM-HMM
AND I DON'T WANT TO DIMINISH ANYTHING THAT YOU HIGHLIGHTED 'CAUSE NOISE POLLUTION IS A VERY REAL AND, AND, YOU KNOW, OFTEN OVERLOOKED THING.
SO I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THOSE COMMENTS.
UM, YOU KNOW, AND THIS IS WHERE I WAS TRYING TO GET AT EARLIER WITH WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US AND WHAT'S NOT IN FRONT OF US.
'CAUSE I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR WE UNDERSTAND THE PICKLEBALL CONCERNS FROM THE NEIGHBORS.
UM, SO JUST TO CLARIFY THAT IT WAS LOOKING, THIS IS R ONE, RIGHT? YES.
AND I WAS LOOKING AT IT AND ONE THING I'M NOT TOTALLY UNDERSTANDING IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A SEVERAL USES AUTHORIZED FOR SPECIAL EXEMPTION AND ONE OF THEM IS NON-COMMERCIAL RECREATIONAL USES INCLUDING GOLF, TENNIS, AND SWIMMING CLUBS.
SO THIS IS NOT THE ZONING BOARD, RIGHT.
[01:25:01]
BUT, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THIS WOULD BE GOING TO THE ZONING BOARD TO ASK FOR A COMMERCIAL USE RECREATIONAL USE.NO, THEY'D BE ASKING FOR A, A PICKLEBALL CLUB.
IT'S SIMILAR TO WHAT THEY WHAT NINE OHS, WHICH IS A CADDY CORN TO THIS.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY'RE LOOKING TO A PRIVATE CLUB FOR PICKLEBALL.
SO YOU WOULD GO AND YOU WOULD PAY YOUR YEARLY DUES AND YOU WOULD BE ALLOWED TO PLAY PICKLEBALL X NUMBER OF TIMES PER YEAR.
AND THAT WAS CONSIDERED NON-COMMERCIAL.
SO THE, TO YOUR POINT AGAIN, JUST TO RECAP IT HERE, THE PROPOSED ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT THAT IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF US IS SOLELY LIMITED TO, TO A USES AND WOULDN'T FURTHER OR LESSEN THEIR ABILITY TO GET A SPECIAL EXEMPTION FROM THE ZONING BOARD FOR NON-COMMERCIAL PICKLEBALL COURTS.
THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS A PERMITTED USE SO LONG AS YOU MEET THE CRITERIA IN THE ZONING COURT.
SO IT'S NOT, THIS ISN'T A, THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM A VARIANCE THAT WOULD BE ASKING TO DO SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE NOT PERMITTED TO DO UNDER THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S ALLOWED SO LONG AS YOU MEET THE CRITERIA OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND THEY HAVE AN EVIDENTIARY BURDEN BEFORE THE ZONING HEARING BOARD THAT THEY HAVE TO MEET IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH ENTITLEMENT TO THAT USE.
UM, BUT THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER ANIMAL.
I THINK THAT IF ANYTHING, THE APPLICANT AT THIS POINT IS JUST MAKING EVERYONE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THEY DO TRY TO DO THAT SO THAT THEY DON'T APPEAR TO BE HIDING THAT FACT WHEN IT ULTIMATELY DOES COME TO LIGHT.
I, I THINK THEY'VE BEEN FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD ABOUT THAT.
SO, AND I, I THINK TONIGHT WE'RE REALLY HERE JUST FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT.
WELL IT'S CONCERNING THOUGH BECAUSE, UM, THEY'RE SUBMITTING A PLAN THAT IS, YOU KNOW, INCLUDING ALL THE PICKLEBALL COURTS.
SO THAT'S THE PLAN'S NOT IN FRONT OF US.
THE THE PLAN IS NOT IN FRONT OF US AND OH, I THOUGHT IT WAS, THEY CAN PRESENT ANY PLAN THAT THEY WANT, WHETHER IT COMPLIES OR DOESN'T COMPLY DOESN'T NECESSARILY BE THE STATUTE'S GONNA APPROVE IT.
SO THEY'VE, THEY'RE WORKING THROUGH THE PROCESS, THE POINT IN THE PROCESS WHERE THEY ARE WITH REGARDS TO THE ENTERTAINMENT.
THEY'RE IN THE ZONING AMENDMENT PHASE.
THEY'RE ASKING FOR A CHANGE IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO ALLOW THEM TO DO ENTERTAINMENT ON THEIR PROPERTY AND THEIR, THE BARN STRUCTURE.
SO THAT'S WHAT'S BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
ALL OF THAT OTHER STUFF IS GONNA BE COMING UP FURTHER DOWN THE TRACK IN THIS PROCESS.
IT'S, I STILL DO HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THE TRAFFIC IN THE AREA.
UM, IT'S, I WALK MY DOGS DOWN TO THE WALKING PATH DAILY PAST THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION.
UM, THAT'S THE CLOSEST WALKING PATH THAT WE HAVE.
UM, IT'S ALREADY LITTLE DANGEROUS CROSSING THE STREET THERE.
IT'S ALWAYS PRETTY BUSY, YOU KNOW.
UM, AND I ALWAYS HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL THERE AND I, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE HOW MUCH MORE TRAFFIC IT'S GONNA BRING, EVEN DOING THE AG RETAINMENT.
UM, SO AS MUCH AS THAT'S NOT MY BIGGEST CONCERN HERE, OF COURSE IT'S THE PICKLEBALL BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S DEFINITELY BEEN A HEALTH ISSUE.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BRING TOO MUCH TRAFFIC TO OUR LITTLE COMMUNITY.
I MEAN THIS IS JUST LIKE A SMALL NEIGHBORHOOD COMMUNITY HERE AND I THINK THAT'S GONNA BRING IN A LOT OF TRAFFIC AND CREATE, UM, CONGESTION HAZARDOUS CONDITIONS FOR, YOU KNOW, THE ELDERLY THAT ARE WALKING AROUND THE YOUNG CHILDREN.
IT'S GONNA BRING A LOT OF MORE PEOPLE NOISE AS WELL.
UM, YOU KNOW, WITH IT BEING A WEDDING VENUE TILL 11 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT, I MEAN THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE VERY LOUD.
I'VE BEEN SUBJECTED TO THE PARTIES THERE LOUD AND DISRUPTIVE TO MY HOME.
UM, SO THAT'S THE LESSER OF THE TWO EVILS, BUT I'D PREFER NOT TO HAVE IT AS, AS WELL, I MENTIONED THE TRAFFIC ISSUE EARLIER AND WE'LL RELY ON OUR CONSULTANTS TO DEAL WITH TRAFFIC RECOMMENDATIONS AS PART OF THE PLANNING PROCESS AS WE MOVE FORWARD DEPENDING ON HOW THIS, UH, ULTIMATELY PROCEEDS.
AND THE GREEN SPACE, I MEAN, IT'S THE ONLY GREEN SPACE WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, IN OUR LOCAL AREA.
UM, IT'D BE GREAT TO BE ABLE TO KEEP IT THAT WAY.
UM, FORM FROM NOW ON WE'LL KEEP THE COMMENTS TO THREE MINUTES.
SO TRY TO CONSOLIDATE IT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, BRUCE.
ONE 18 PLUS, UH, QUESTION I HAVE IS ON THE WEDDING VENUE, UH, WHAT'S THE CAPACITY? ARE WE TALKING 50 PEOPLE? 150, 300?
[01:30:02]
UH, SUBJECT TO THE FIRE MARSHAL APPROVING IT? I BELIEVE THE VENUE CAN FIT ABOUT 200 PEOPLE.SO WE'RE TALKING A HUNDRED CARS LEAVING AT 11 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT.
WILL THERE BE ALCOHOL SERVED? I MEAN, COULD YOU SERVE ALCOHOL AT, AT THE WEDDING RECEPTIONS? IT AGAIN, IT PROVIDED THAT, UH, THE LAWS ARE COMPLIED WITH.
SO WE, I KNOW AT MOST WEDDINGS I GO TO, A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE TO THROW BACK A FEW AND A CONCERN THAT, YOU KNOW, 11 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT I GOT A HUNDRED CARS COMING OUT, BUT HALF THE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DRINKING.
SO YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE WELFARE OF THE KIDS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THAT'S ABOUT IT.
HI, I AM KIM STELLA AND I'M AT 1 21 FOX RUN DRIVE.
I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE WHOLE THING AND I'LL BE BRIEF.
IT IS A QUIET RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE WALK OUR DOGS, WE WALK OUR KIDS, THEY RIDE BIKES.
IT'S BEEN A WONDERFUL PLACE TO LIVE.
WE FEEL VERY LUCKY TO BE HERE AND I DON'T WANT TO SEE A CHANGE.
COULD YOU SPELL YOUR LAST NAME FOR ME? S-T-E-L-I-G-A.
ANYONE ELSE? DO YOU HAVE CONCLUSION? NO, NOTHING FURTHER.
I DO APOLOGIZE FOR, UH, THE MISINFORMATION I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THE OUTDOOR COURTS.
I, YOU KNOW, I JUST MISREAD THAT.
SO AT THIS POINT, UH, THERE'S NO ACTION TO BE TAKEN, I SUPPOSE AS OF THE LAST, I THINK THEY'VE GOT A GOOD AMOUNT OF FEEDBACK.
MOVING ON TO, UH, THE LAST ITEM ON THE AGENDA, I BELIEVE IT IS.
AND THAT'S THE, UH, MILLENNIUM ESTATE'S
ANYTHING ELSE? UM, NO, I CAN, UH, OKAY.
UH, GOOD EVENING, UM, PLANNING COMMISSION.
I'M COLIN CAMP FROM THE CROSSROADS GROUP.
I'M HERE REPRESENTING THE APPLICANT, UM, SHIP SHAW, UM, THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, UM, AS WELL.
UM, HE'S LOOKING TO BAIL A FOUR LOT, UM, SUBDIVISION, UM, ON SIX 50 EGYPT ROAD.
UM, IT IS NEXT TO TWO, UM, EXISTING DEVELOPMENTS, UM, IN THE R ONE DISTRICT.
UM, WE, UM, HAVE SUBMITTED THIS AS ATTENTIVE SKETCH PLAN, UM, AND HE'S LOOKING TO, UM, UH, LIVE IN ONE OF THE, UH, HOMES OUT HERE.
UM, SO WE ARE LOOKING TO CONSTRUCT A, UH, CUL-DE-SAC, UM, UM, FOR THESE FOUR LOTS.
UM, WE CAN, WE CAN START WITH YOU, YOU RECEIVED THE LETTERS THAT YOU SEE UP THERE FOR, FOR ALL OF US? YES.
I HAVE RECEIVED, UM, FROM THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER, TOWNSHIP ENGINEER, UM, FIRE MARSHAL, UM, MYSELF.
UM, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THOSE LETTERS 'CAUSE I UNDERSTAND ONE OF THEM EXTREMELY LENGTHY.
UM, SO, WHICH AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SUBMIT A TENTATIVE PLAN OR PRELIMINARY PLAN AT TENTATIVE STAGE, BUT, AND I, I HAD HER REVIEW 'CAUSE IF YOU'RE GONNA PUT THE INFORMATION OUT THERE, WE'RE GOING TO REVIEW ALL OF THE INFORMATION, SO I UNDERSTAND.
UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS COMPLYING WITH ANY OF THE COMMENTS IN THOSE LETTERS OR DO YOU WANNA JUST GO THROUGH WHAT YOU CANNOT COMPLY WITH? UH, SO YEAH, THERE'S A FEW WAIVERS, UM, THAT, UM, WE ARE LOOKING TO PROPOSE.
UM, WE ARE NOT PROPOSING ANY, UM, VARIANCES AT THIS TIME.
UM, BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE WAIVERS.
UM, I GO THROUGH THE ONES, UH, THAT ARE LISTED.
UM, MR. GRACIE'S, LET ME HOLD YOU UP.
SO, I MEAN, IF YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THEM, YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THEM SO THEY'RE PREPARED WHEN YOU GET TO PRELIMINARY AND I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF WORK TO DO FOR PRELIMINARY, SO YOU MIGHT SUBMIT THAT FAIRLY QUICKLY, BUT WE DON'T, WE'RE NOT GONNA MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON, ON ANY WAIVERS AT THIS POINT.
SO I'LL JUST GO THROUGH THEM, BUT, BUT IF I MIGHT, UH, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT, UM, THERE'S RECOMMENDATIONS BY BOTH THE CONSULTANTS AND THE FIRE MARSHAL ON,
[01:35:01]
ON THE WAIVERS.SO JUST BE AWARE THAT THERE ARE WAIVER ISSUES AND AS LONG AS YOU ARE COGNIZANT OF, OF THAT SITUATION, HOPE YOU DEAL WITH THOSE AT THE NEXT STAGE.
UM, WE WILL PROVIDE A, UH, A MORE DETAILED, UH, LETTER FOR WAIVER REQUESTS, UM, AT THAT PRELIMINARY STAGE.
UM, JUST GO THROUGH THE QUICK, UM, WAIVERS WERE LOOKING TO PROPOSE.
UM, ONE OF THEM WOULD BE HTPE, UM, PIPES, UM, TO UTILIZE INSTEAD OF CONCRETE PIPES WITHIN THE ROADWAY AND THE STORMWATER STRUCTURES.
UM, THE CART WAY WIDTH OF THE ROAD, WE ARE PROPOSING AT 24 FOOT WIDE.
UM, WE, WE HAVE, WE NEED TO SUBMIT TO, UM, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF SUBMITTING TO PENDOT, UM, RIGHT NOW AT THIS STAGE.
UM, SO WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING BACK FROM THEM, UM, ABOUT THIS.
UM, UH, BUT LOOKING AT OTHER, UM, THE OTHER DEVELOPMENTS NEARBY, UM, I, WE BELIEVE THAT, UM, THE 24 FOOT, UM, WOULD ACCOMMODATE THIS.
UM, GIVEN THAT THERE'S ONLY FOUR LOTS, UM, AS FAR AS THIS CUL-DE-SAC, UM, I, I WILL LET YOU KNOW THAT THAT IS AN EXTREMELY DIFFICULT WAIVER TO GET IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
UM, AND THEN, UM, ANOTHER ONE WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS, UH, A WAIVER REGARDING THE SPECIFICATION FOR THE PAVEMENT.
UM, UH, LOOKING AT THE TOWNSHIP STANDARD, THERE IS A ONE POINT, UM, FIVE INCH, UM, WEAR AND COAT COURSE AND THEN A 1.5 INCH, UM, TOP COURSE.
UM, ON TOP OF THAT, UM, WE WOULD LIKE TO, UH, PROPOSE A WAIVER, UM, TO ELIMINATE ONE OF THE 1.5 INCH, UM, PRESUMABLY THE, UM, WEAR AND COURSE, UM, GIVEN THE, UM, AS, AS WITH THE CART WAY WITH, UM, THE LIMITED, UM, TRAFFIC COMING TO THIS DEVELOPMENT.
UM, ALSO VERY DIFFICULT TO GET.
WE DO, EVEN THOUGH IT'S LIKELY THAT THIS ROAD WILL BE A PRIVATE ROAD IN THE FUTURE ROADS AND THE STORM PIPES THEMSELVES WILL BE HELD TO TOWNSHIP STANDARDS BECAUSE DECADES DOWN THE ROAD, SOMEONE MIGHT COME IN AND WANT TO DEDICATE THE ROAD.
SO AT THAT POINT, WE MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING IN TOWNSHIP IS CONSTRUCTED PER THE ORDINANCE FOR PUBLIC ROADS, EVEN IF IT'S PRIVATE TODAY.
WE'LL TAKE THAT IN ACCOUNT, UM, AND PROPOSING WAIVERS.
AND IN ADDITION, WITH AN INCH AND A HALF RUNNING TRUCKS AND YOU'RE GOING TO DEFINITELY HAVE TRUCKS RUNNING OVER THIS AT SOME POINT IN TIME, IT WOULDN'T HOLD UP.
UM, THEN, UH, THE OTHER ONE'S RELATED TO ROADWAY VERTICAL CURVE.
UM, SO THE NEIGHBORING, UM, PROPERTY HAS REACHED OUT TO POTENTIALLY CONNECT, UM, TO THE DEVELOPMENT.
UM, SO, UM, WE SORT OF HAVE IT, UM, COME UP AT A STEEPER SLOPE AT THE BEGINNING THERE, UM, SO THAT IT BECOMES LIKE A NICE 2% SLOPE COMING DOWN THROUGH, UM, FLATTER, UM, TO HELP ACCOMMODATE, UH, POTENTIAL DRIVEWAY CONNECTION THERE.
UM, SO A WAIVER OF THE VERTICAL CURVE, UM, WOULD BE THAT REQUEST.
MY, MY CONCERN HERE IS THE FIRE MARSHAL IS THE ONE THAT WEIGHED IN ON THIS AS, AS, AS DID I SAY ENTITY.
I'M CONCERNED IF, IF THERE'S A FIRE ISSUE, UM, IF THE APPARATUS CAN'T ADEQUATELY GET INTO, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS A SMALL DEVELOPMENT, UM, AND THE FIRE STARTS AT ONE OF THE HOMES, WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE PROPERTIES ALL THE WAY UP, ALL THE WAY UP NORTH OF THIS, YOU KNOW, FOUR HOUSE DEVELOPMENT.
I MEAN, THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, SIGNIFICANT.
I'M JUST COMMENTING, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THESE TRAFFIC ISSUES AS I THINK SIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS. MM-HMM
WE WILL PROVIDE, UM, UH, THE FIRE MARSHAL WITH TURNING TEMPLATES.
UM, HE DID GIVE US, UH, THE APPARATUS OF HIS, UH, OF HIS FIRE TRUCK.
UM, SO, UM, WE PROVIDE TURNING TEMPLATES TO SHOW THAT, UM, THAT IT COULD, UH, AND I'M JUST SAYING I DON'T SEE ANY POSSIBILITY OF A WAIVER WHEN THE FIRE MARSHAL SAYS HE OBJECTS.
AND I, I'LL LIKE TO ASK THE APPLICANT WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE, THE, THE ISSUE WITH MEETING THE TOWNSHIP REQUIREMENTS WITH THE PROPER COURT WEIGHT WIDTH.
IT SEEMS LIKE YOU HAVE PLENTY OF ROOM TO DO THAT, BUT, UM, SO IT DOES ELIMINATE, UM, SOME OF THE AREA, UM, FOR LOCK TWO.
[01:40:01]
UM, POTENTIALLY WE HAVE TO MOVE A LOT LINE THERE, UM, TO STILL BE IN THAT, UM, TO MEET THE, UH, SETBACK REQUIREMENTS AND TO, UM, STAY WITHIN THAT ONE ACRE REQUIREMENT OF THE ZONING DISTRICT.UM, AND UH, THE OTHER, UM, REASON IS THE FINANCIAL, UH, OF THE EXTENDED WIDTH, UM, GOING TO 32.
BUT, SO YOU'RE REALLY DEAD SET ON, ON FOUR HOUSES AND YOU PRESUMABLY YOU, YOU KNOW, IT'S A KIND OF A UNIQUELY SHAPED LOT, UM, YOU KNOW, BUT PRESUMABLY YOU MOVED THE JIGSAW PIECES ENOUGH AND YOU'VE SHRUNKEN OUT SIZES TO, YOU KNOW, GET A LITTLE MORE LEEWAY WITH SETBACK SIZES AND THIS IS THE BEST WAY YOU CAN GET TO FOUR UNITS, BUT YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF UPHILL BATTLES ON WAIVERS TO GET THROUGH.
WOULD YOU NEED WAIVERS IF YOU DID THREE AS MANY WAIVERS? IF YOU DID THREE? UH, I STILL BELIEVE, UM, WE WOULD NEED THE VERTICAL CURVE, UM, AND, UM, AT LEAST, UH, I WOULD HAVE TO, UH, CONVERSATE WITH THE APPLICANT, UM, ON THE, UM, STILL REQUESTING THE 24 FOOT.
I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE RIGHT TIME TO BRING IT UP.
WE GOT SIDEWALK ISSUES, CURB ISSUES.
I MEAN, ANTHONY'S OUTLINING LOTS OF ISSUES.
UM, FLOOD PLANES, STEEP SLOPES.
YEAH, I, I'M POINTING, I, UH, I HAVE JEN'S, UM, UH, YOU GONNA ADDRESS ALL OF THOSE OR YEAH.
UM, WE CAN TO COMPLY WITH, WITH SOME OF 'EM, I'LL WORK WITH, UH, HER, UM, OUTSIDE OF THE MEETING, UM, TO, FOR SOME OF THESE, UM, I DO HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS, UM, REGARDING SOME OF THE, UM, COMMENTS REGARD ON THAT LETTER.
UM, THE FIRST ONE BEING, UM, NUMBER FIVE, UH, IN THE ZONING SECTION ABOUT THE, UH, BO UM, SO GROUP, UM, I, I DO SEE THAT, UH, WE DO NEED TO MEET THAT 20 FOOT, UM, SETBACK FOR HOUSES, UM, AND THAT NO DISTURBANCE COULD BE WITHIN, UM, THAT GROUND, UM, WITHIN THAT SOIL GROUP.
UM, NOW THAT DISTURBANCE WOULD NOT HAVE TO MEET THAT 20 FOOT SETBACK THEN, CORRECT? NO, THAT'S CORRECT.
IT'S DEFINED FOR FLOODPLAINS AND FOR PROPERTY DETENTION.
SO, UM, WE WILL LOOK TO MAYBE PUT IN A LEVEL SPREADER, UM, THAT, UH, KEEPS, UM, ALL DISTURBING OUTSIDE OF THAT.
SO GROUP, UM, I JUST WANTED TO ADDRESS, UH, UH, ONE OF THE COMMENTS, UM, WITHIN THIS LETTER.
UM, THERE IS AN EXISTING SEPTIC SYSTEM THAT WE LOCATED ON LOT FOUR, UM, THAT IS CONNECTED TO THE EXISTING SHED ON THAT LOT THAT'S TO BE REMOVED.
UM, IT'S NOT CONNECTED TO THE, UH, ADJOINING RYAN LOT.
UM, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN, UM, ON LOT SYSTEM.
UM, AND THAT WAS A COMMENT, UM, REGARDING THE CONSTRUCTION SEQUENCE.
SO THE HOUSE TWO SEPTIC FOR THE LOT, THERE'S ONE FOR THE SHED AND THERE'S ONE FOR THE EXISTING HOUSE ITSELF.
IS THAT, IS THE BOUNDS OF THE ONE FOR THE HOUSE SHOWN ON THIS PLAN? YOU'LL NEED TO SHOW THAT AND DEMONSTRATE ADEQUATE SETBACKS FROM THAT FOR THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT DEPARTMENT.
UH, YEAH, WE DID NOT, OUR SURVEYS COULD NOT FIND, UM, THAT, SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A HOLDING TANK OR, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, WE CAN, UM, UH, TRY TO FIND THE APPROXIMATE LOCATION OF THAT.
UM, AND THEN NUMBER 16 ON ZONING, UM, STATES THAT ALL, UH, EXISTING TREES GREATER THAN 24 CALIPER, UM, LOCATED BY SURVEY.
UM, I JUST WANTED TO CONFIRM, UM, THAT THE TREE SURVEY WILL WILL BE REQUIRED AND THAT IT WOULD BE A 24, UM, THAT WE SURVEY TREES TO 24, WHICH IS A GREATER, SO TYPICALLY AS IT SAYS HERE, IT'S SPECIMEN TREES, SO IF YOU'RE DOING MASS CLEARING, UM, WE ONLY ASK FOR THE OUTBOUNDS, YOU KNOW, OF WHERE THOSE TREES ARE.
AND JUST FOR REPLACEMENT PURPOSES.
[01:45:01]
SO NO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SURVEY THE ENTIRE SITE.SO WE CAN DISCUSS THAT MORE IF, IF YOU WANT, YOU KNOW, TO GET INTO SPECIFICS, YOU KNOW, FOR YOUR MAPPING AND SUCH.
BUT MAJORITY OF THE SITE IS WOODED, SO YOU DON'T NEED TO DO A TREE SURVEY FOR THE ENTIRE PROPERTY.
SO JUST THE UM, JUST LIKE SPECIMEN TREE IS THEIR STANDALONE THEN.
UM, GOING BACK TO, UH, SIDEWALKS, UH, MR. PETERS, WHO I MENTIONED THIS ALREADY, UM, UH, RIGHT NOW WE'RE PROPOSING, UM, SIDEWALK, UM, ALONG, UM, ALL FOUR LOTS, UM, ENDING AT ROCK FOUR.
UM, AND THEN THAT WILL, UM, COME DOWN TO, UM, EGYPT ROAD.
UM, WE HAVE, UH, UH, RIGHT NOW A SIX FOOT, UM, UH, ONE AREA FOR THE BUS STOP.
UM, WE, UH, MAY ASK A WAIVER, UM, FOR THE CONNECTIONS TO, UM, THE DEVELOPMENT TO THE EAST, UM, JUST BECAUSE OF THAT BEING IN THE FRONTAGE OF, UM, THE RYAN, UM, THAT YOUNER THERE, UM, TRYING TO GET HIS PERMISSION TO ALLOW US TO CONSTRUCT WITHIN, UM, THAT IN WITHIN HIS, UM, ALTERNATE RIGHTWAY AREA.
UM, AND THEN WE WOULD, UM, ALSO REQUEST A WAIVER, UM, TO NOT EXTEND THE SIDEWALK, UM, ALL THE WAY TO THE WEST.
UM, JUST BECAUSE THERE CURRENTLY IS NOT, UH, A CONNECTION, UM, AREA, UM, ON THE EXISTING LOCKS THERE.
WELL, BUT THAT, THAT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR EGYPT, RIGHT? I MEAN, ISN'T THE IDEA TO GENERALLY THAT EVENTUALLY BUILD UP THE SIDEWALK, YOU KNOW, SO IF THAT PARCEL NEXT TO IT COMES UP, THEY WOULD'VE THE REQUIREMENT TO BUILD A SIDEWALK SO IT EVENTUALLY COMES TOGETHER, RIGHT? SORRY, MORE OF A QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS.
THE, THE, UH, REQUIREMENTS TO HAVE SIDEWALK ALONG THE FRONT EDGE, UH, SO TO THE WEST, YOU KNOW, IN FRONT OF
I MEAN, I MEAN THAT'S FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, BUT THE
UM, TO YOUR POINT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO NOT GO BACK IN TIME WHERE, UM, CONNECTION IS MISSED DUE TO NOT PROVIDING IT IN MOMENTS, UM, A FEW HUNDRED FEET TO EDEN AND WE HAVE CONNECTION THAT GOES ALMOST ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE TOWN CENTER.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THAT SIDEWALK BE INSTALLED, CERTAINLY ACROSS THE LOT.
ONE FRONT EDGE WE UNDERSTAND THE, TO THE EAST MAY BE DIFFICULT BECAUSE IT'S NOT PROPERTY OWNED BY THE APPLICANT MM-HMM
UM, BUT WITH THE, YOU KNOW, WE KIND OF SAW IT FROM A PERSPECTIVE OF A, YOU KNOW, THERE IT IS JUST A FEW HUNDRED FEET OF CONNECTION.
WE UNDERSTAND IT'S NOT CONTROLLED BY THE APPLICANT.
AND ALSO WE NOTICED THAT THAT CURB CUT INTERNALLY TO THAT LOT WAS PROPOSED, OR AT LEAST IDENTIFIED ON THE PLAN.
SO I THOUGHT WAS IF THERE'S COORDINATION OCCURRING FOR AN INTERNAL LOT CONNECTION IN CONJUNCT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE DISCUSSION COULD INCLUDE THE SIDEWALK TO, TO PROVIDE THAT CONNECTION AS WELL.
UM, WE'LL, WE'LL, WELL CONTINUE, GO BACK AND FORTH WITH THAT NEIGHBOR, UM, SEE IF WE CAN, UM, MAYBE ACCOMMODATE THAT COMMENT.
SEE HERE IF THERE'S ANY OTHER COMMENTS I WANTED TO GO OVER WITH YOU GUYS AT THIS TENTATIVE STAGE.
UM, WE HAVE RECEIVED OUR WATER WILL SERVE LETTER, UM, AND ARE BEGINNING THE PROCESS TO SUBMIT, UM, TO THEM, UM, FOR THE, FOR THEIR APPROVAL.
UM, AND WE'LL BE WORKING ON, UM, PENDO AS I MENTIONED, AND, UM, UM, REACHING OUT TO, UH, THE SUPER AUTHORITY TO GET, UH, UM, PLANNING MODULE EXEMPTION, UM, FOR THE PROJECT.
UM, COULD I, COULD I ASK A QUICK QUESTION AND, UH, DID YOU SAY YOU MADE A SUBMISSION OR IS THAT ANTICIPATED? UH, YEAH, SO I WAS ACTUALLY OUT THERE TO TODAY, UM, MEASURING, UM, SITE DISTANCES.
SO, UM, I ANTICIPATE THAT BEING, UM, SUBMITTED TO THEM WITHIN A WEEK OR SO.
UM, SO, UH, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO GO OVER AT THIS TIME.
UM, UH, JUST, UH, PLANNING, WE HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS,
[01:50:03]
BUT I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE UP IN THE AIR, SO I DON'T THINK WE CAN TAKE ANY ACTION RIGHT AT THIS MEETING IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.SO, UM, WE'RE LOOKING TO MOVE ON TO THE PRELIMINARY STAGE OF, UH, THE PLANNING.
I, I, I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF COMMENTS THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS.
UM, WE JUST WOULD LIKE TO MOVE ON TO THE PRELIMINARY STAGE, UM, AS WE LOOK TO, UM, ADDRESS ALL THESE COMMENTS, UM, WORKING WITH, UM, MS. SHAW, UM, AND OTHER ENGINEERS.
I GUESS I'D LIKE TO ASK JEFF AND ZACH, I MEAN THERE ARE TO BE LOTS AND LOTS OF ISSUES HERE.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'RE EVEN AT THE TEMPORARY STAGE, CONCEPTUAL STAGE.
IT'S A CO IT SEEMS LIKE, IT SEEMS LIKE A COUPLE OF THESE WAIVERS COULD BE SHOWSTOPPERS TOO, SO, WELL THE WAIVER, BUT THE WAIVERS ARE, ARE NOT FOR THIS MEETING.
WELL THAT, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, BUT I'M THINKING, I'M THINKING TO RELEASE THE APPLICANT TO TAKE FURTHER STEPS OF PRELIMINARY CLAIM.
IT COULD BE A WASTE OF HIS TIME.
I, THAT'S OUR CALL JEFF AND ZACH TO HELP HERE.
YEAH, I, I I I, I THINK THAT THEY, THE CHALLENGE WITH THE SITUATION IS THAT I THINK THAT THEY WENT AHEAD AND DID PRELIMINARY.
THEY BASICALLY PUT TOGETHER A PRELIMINARY PLAN THAT THEY'VE SUBMITTED FOR TENTATIVE.
SO THEY'VE ESSENTIALLY PUT MUCH MORE INFORMATION ON THE PLAN.
THEY'VE DONE MORE WORK THAN THEY NECESSARILY NEEDED TO FOR TENTATIVE.
BUT I THINK THAT, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE CONCEPTUAL POINT AND THERE ARE SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS AS TO WHAT IS REQUIRED ON A TENTATIVE PLAN.
I MEAN, ANTHONY, ANTHONY AND JEN, ARE THERE ANY SPECIFIC ITEMS RELATED TO TENTATIVE PLAN REQUIREMENTS THAT THEY'RE NOT MEETING OR THAT THEY'RE DEFICIENT IN? I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE MOST OF THE COMMENTS, WAIVERS, ALL THAT, THAT'S GONNA BE HASHED OUT AT THE NEXT STAGE.
SO I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT THAT SHOULD BE BOGGING THEM DOWN IN TENTATIVE POINT POINT, ONE OF MY CONCERNS IS THAT IF, IF WE WERE TO APPROVE THIS AS A TENTATIVE PLAN, I PRESUME IT THEN GOES TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS FOR THEM TO LOOK AT AND ALSO JUDGE WHETHER IT'S A TENTATIVE PLAN OR NOT.
AND I MEAN, WE'VE GOT SO MANY ISSUES AND CONCERNS EVEN AT THE TENTATIVE STAGE THAT I'M NOT SURE I WANT TO BURDEN THE SUPERVISORS.
I MEAN, TO, TO, I I I'M REALLY CAUGHT HERE BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD SPOT.
I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE, I'M NOT SURE HOW, HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS.
YEAH, I FEEL THE SAME WAY JOE, BUT I'M, I'M DEFERRING TO ZACH'S OPINION ABOUT MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF TENTATIVE VERSUS THAT, THAT YEAH, THAT'S WHY I'D LIKE, SO THE MAJORITY OF MY LETTER IS WRITTEN AS A PRELIMINARY PLAN REVIEW, WHICH THEY ARE NOT AT.
BUT GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION THEY SUBMITTED, THAT'S WHAT IS REVIEWED.
BUT THE EXISTING FEATURES SUCH AS THE, UM, SEPTIC SYSTEM FOR THE ADJOINING LOT, WE WOULD WANT TO KNOW WHERE THAT IS AND MAKE SURE IT'S NOT ACTUALLY ON THIS PARCEL.
THEY'RE SAYING THEY CAN'T LOCATE IT.
SO, UM, SAME WITH THE FLOODPLAIN SOILS.
THERE ARE THOSE ITEMS THAT ARE REQUIRED FOR TENTATIVE SKETCH THAT IF THEY ONLY, AND THAT'S THE FIRST PARAGRAPH I HAVE WRITTEN HERE, THAT IF THEY JUST LOOK AT 2 70 31 AND THEN THE REFERENCE SECTIONS WITHIN THAT FOR TENTATIVE SKETCH, IF THEY WOULD JUST REPLY TO THOSE COMMENTS AND ADDRESS THOSE, THOSE WOULD BE TENTATIVE SKETCH ITEMS. THEY COULD REALLY COME BACK IN WITH BASICALLY A ONE PAGE PLAN SET AND, UM, HOLD THE REST OF THE COMMENTS FOR THAT PRELIMINARY LETTER.
I CERTAINLY AM NOT LOOKING FOR THEM TO ADDRESS 20 PAGES COMMENTS FOR TENTATIVE SKETCH.
SO YOU, YOU HAVE A, YOU STILL HAVE A FEW, THERE'S A FEW OUTSTANDING, OUTSTANDING ITEMS. JUST A COUPLE, YOU KNOW, SAVE YOURSELF SOME TIME, YOU DON'T NEED TO.
YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S A PATHWAY TO NOT ADDRESS EVERYTHING.
AND THEN WE'RE NOT AT THE, AT THE WAIVER STAGE YET EITHER.
NO, THE WAIVER UNDERSTAND IS, IS INTO THE FUTURE.
YEAH, I, I'M, I, I WAS MORE CONCERNED THAT THERE SEEMED TO BE SOME FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES THAT BOTH ANTHONY AND JEN ADDRESSED AT THE TEMPORARY STAGE AND THAT THAT'S WHAT CONCERNS ME.
AND UH, I MEAN AS LONG AS WE ALL AGREE AND UNDERSTAND THAT THERE, WE'VE HAD SOME, SOME SIGNIFICANT ISSUES YET TO BE DEALT WITH AS WE MOVE FORWARD, UH, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, I'M OKAY WITH, WITH WITH ZACH'S RECOMMENDATION.
I I, I'M, I'M NOT MAKING A RECOMMENDATION.
YOU, I'M, I'M, IT SOUNDS LIKE JEN HAS SOME LEGITIMATE ISSUES THAT STILL NEED TO BE WORKED OUT 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT MEETING TENTATIVE REQUIREMENTS.
SO I THINK TO THAT EXTENT, IF YOU GUYS CAN GO BACK
[01:55:01]
AND, YOU KNOW, DO THE ONE PAGE TO JUST ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES SO THAT WE CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY THAT YOU'RE MEETING ALL THE TENTATIVE REQUIREMENTS, THEN I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE, BUT I, IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT READY FOR RECOMMENDATION AT THIS POINT FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THE, THE RIGHT OF WAY MAPPING FOR EGYPT ROAD SHOULD BE ADDRESSED FOR TENTATIVE SKETCH AS WELL.ARE YOU MENTIONING THE COMMENT REGARDING THE 80 FOOT, UM,
SO IT JUST NEEDS TO BE MAPPED CORRECTLY.
YOUR FOUR LOTS ARE STILL GOING TO FIT, BUT YOU JUST NEED TO MAP, MAP IT CORRECTLY SO THAT YOUR NET LAW AREA IS ESTABLISHED THAT YOU HAVE THE AC PER LOT FOR THE REST TO STIPULATE FOR THE ZONING.
IF YOU WERE TO SUBMIT ANOTHER, JUST A ONE PAGE REVISION THAT MEANT THE TENTATIVE SKETCH REQUIREMENTS, WE COULD RE-REVIEW THAT OBVIOUSLY REFERENCING THESE REVIEWS THAT THEY'VE WRITTEN.
BUT WE ALLOW US AS THE CONSULTANTS TO WRITE LETTERS TO SAY YOU MEET THE TENTATIVE SKETCH REQUIREMENTS THERE, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE OUTSTANDING ISSUES BETWEEN PRELIMINARY AND TENANT, BETWEEN TENANT PRELIMINARY.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ELIMINATE ALL OF THEM.
BUT A LOT OF THAT IS MORE JUST REFERENCING, SAYING, MAKE SURE YOU COMPLY WITH THIS AND MAKE SURE YOU COMPLY WITH THAT.
TO BE PERFECTLY FRANK, I WOULD TAKE A LOOK AT THE 10, AT THE DESIGN, AT THE TENTATIVE LEVEL TO SEE HOW IT DOES IMPACT YOU TO NOT ASK FOR THE WAIVERS FOR THE ROADWAY WIDTH AT THIS STAGE, TO NOT REDESIGN THE SITE, TO NOT RE-ENGINEER THE SITE, BUT TO MAYBE TAKE A STEP BACK, CREATE A TENTATIVE PLAN THAT HAS THE WORK, THE RIGHT REQUIREMENT OF ROAD WIDTH AND, AND THE OTHER ONE WHAT THE BASE COURSE.
MAYBE THAT'S MORE PRELIMINARY ISSUE BECAUSE IT'S IT'S CONSTRUCTION DETAILS.
BUT LOOK AT THAT FROM A TENTATIVE LEVEL AND THEN BRING THAT BACK AND WE CAN GET YOU THROUGH THE PROCESS IF, IF, IF YOU AND, AND THE APPLICANT ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
UM, SO AS FAR AS UM, GETTING THIS, UH, SO WE COULD POTENTIALLY YES, SUBMIT, UM, THIS ONE PAGE AS TENTATIVE, UM, AND THEN COULD BE LIKE CONCURRENTLY MAYBE SUBMIT, WELL IT WOULD JUST BE A SUPPLEMENT TO THE ACTUAL, I WOULD CONSIDER IT A SUPPLEMENT TO THE ACTUAL APPLICATION.
WE WILL REVIEW IT REFERENCING THE, YOU KNOW, THERE OBVIOUSLY BE A REFERENCE TO THESE EXISTING LETTERS FOR WHAT WE CONSIDER SOMEWHAT OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN SUBMISSION.
BUT THE PLAN YOU SUBMITTED ON APRIL 1ST, JUST TO PICK A DAY THE PLAN YOU SUBMITTED ON APRIL AND APRIL 1ST DATE MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF TENTATIVE SKETCH.
WE CAN TAKE IT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THEY CAN MAKE THEIR RECOMMENDATION ON THAT.
YOU CAN GET TO THE BOARD AND THEN YOU CAN ROLL RIGHT INTO PRELIMINARY.
'CAUSE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE ALL THAT INFORMATION AND AS LONG AS YOU ADDRESS THE 20 PAGES IN ANTHONY'S LETTER, IN YOUR NEXT PRELIMINARY PLAN SUBMISSION, THEN YOU'RE AHEAD OF THE GAME REALLY AT THAT POINT.
WE'RE ASKING TO TAKE HALF A STEP BACK, BUT ONCE WE GET THROUGH THAT 10 SKETCH PROCESS, YOU'RE GONNA BE A STEP AND A HALF AHEAD.
SO REALLY THIS IS OUR PRELIMINARY REVIEW NOW.
WHICH YOU'RE DOING A LITTLE BIT EARLY MM-HMM
SO IF YOU COULD JUST TAKE, TAKE A STEP BACK TO THE 10 SKETCH LEVEL AND YOU KNOW, YOUR RECORD PLAN GENERALLY WORKS FOR THAT.
YOU JUST HAVE TO MAKE SURE IT MEETS THOSE REQUIREMENTS THAT THE GEN OUTLINE THAT YOU STILL NEED TO DO AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN MOVE THAT FORWARD.
IT IS NOT GONNA BE A DIFFICULT REVIEW FOR US.
I THINK WE CAN TURN IT AROUND GENERALLY QUICKLY AND GET YOU ON AN AGENDA.
IT'S NOT GONNA BE ANOTHER TWO AND A HALF MONTHS.
YOU KNOW, WE, WE WILL, WE WILL MOVE YOU FORWARD AS QUICKLY AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.
WE COULD POTENTIALLY BE ON THE NEXT AGENDA.
UH, THAT'S TWO WEEKS FROM NOW.
THAT'S PROBABLY A BIT OF A STRETCH
UM, YEAH, THAT, THAT, A LOT OF THAT IS GONNA RIDE WITH YOU THOUGH.
IT'S HIGHLY DEPENDENT ON WHEN YOU GET US THE INFORMATION UNDERSTOOD BECAUSE I, I KNOW THAT THEY CAN TURN IT AROUND FAIRLY QUICKLY, SO.
AND THEN, UH, I KNOW YOU MENTIONED, UH, IT WOULD JUST NEED TO BE LIKE OUR FIRST, UM, OUR SHEET HERE.
UM, ONE DOESN'T NEED TO INCLUDE ANY GRADING OR THINGS LIKE THAT, JUST ANYTHING I PUT ON THE RIGHT AWAY.
AND THE SOIL GROUP, ANYTHING THAT YOU PUT ON THE PLAN, WE HAVE TO REVIEW BECAUSE ONCE WE GIVE YOU APPROVAL, IF YOU GET TO THE ZONING, IF YOU GET TO THE BOARD AND THEY GIVE YOU APPROVAL, IT MEMORIALIZES ANYTHING ON THAT PLAN.
AND IF WE HAVEN'T REVIEWED IT OR COMMENTED ON IT, SOMETHING THAT'S INCORRECT COULD MOVE FORWARD AS AN APPROVED PLAN.
SO THE MORE INFORMATION YOU INCLUDE ON THERE, THE MORE WE HAVE TO REVIEW, WHICH IS WHY YOU GOT THE 20 PAGE REVIEW AT THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PHASE AND YOU'VE GOT ALL OF THOSE COMMENTS, SO, OKAY.
CAN I, WHAT IS THE SIZE FOR AN ABBREVIATED PLAN? UM, IS THAT LIKE THREE OR TWO LOTS OR THERE'S A, YOU CAN DO A, UM, A MINOR SUBDIVISION, WHICH YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO ONE LOT INTO TWO LOTS.
NO, IT DOESN'T BECAUSE IT ALSO, IT ALSO CAN'T QUALIFY AS LAND DEVELOPMENT AND A SINGLE HOUSE ISN'T LAND DEVELOPMENT.
A SINGLE HOUSE'S, JUST NEW CONSTRUCTION.
THIS QUALIFIES A NEW, IT LANDED ON BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF LOTS AND THE STREET AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF.
[02:00:02]
ALRIGHT.SO, UM, ANYTHING ELSE WE'RE ASK, WE'RE GETTING PAST THE MAGIC REACHING NOW AT NINE O'CLOCK.
SO COLIN, MY RECOMMENDATION IS FOR YOU TO, YOU'RE NOT GOING, DON'T GET YOUR KNEE ANYTHING TONIGHT.
COME BACK WITH ONE OR WITH A ONE SHEET MAYBE IF IT HAS TO SEARCH THE TWO SHEETS, WHATEVER.
AND WE'LL GET YOU HOPEFULLY ON THE APRIL 2ND AGENDA.
AND IF YOU WANNA SUBMIT EVERYTHING ELECTRONICALLY, WE CAN DEAL WITH THAT.
DON'T NEED TO, I MEAN EVENTUALLY WE'LL HAVE TO GET ALL A COPY OF IT, BUT GENERALLY IF YOU WANNA DO IT ELECTRONICALLY, WE CAN DO THAT.
AND THEN WE'LL, WE'LL COORDINATE FROM THERE AND GET YOU ON AGENDA AS SOON AS WE CAN.
SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON APRIL 2ND AS FAR AS I CAN THINK OF, SO, ALRIGHT.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
ALRIGHT, ANYTHING ELSE? IF, IF MARCH 19TH WE'LL JUMP BACK ONTO THE OFFICIAL MAP AND RIGHT OF WAY MAP.I THINK ANTHONY'S AHEAD OF ME IN THIS GAME.
UM, SO HIS IS PROBABLY DONE, I'LL PROBABLY BE PRETTY CLOSE.
I THINK I WAS GONNA SEND YOU SOME STUFF TODAY, PROBABLY TOMORROW.
UM, SO WE'LL PUT THAT BACK ON THERE.
WE'LL HAVE A FURTHER DISCUSSION OF RIDGE PIPE ZONING AND APRIL 2ND RIGHT NOW IS TO BE DETERMINED.
I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT POTENTIALLY THIS ONE, IF THEY GET INTO US IN A TIMELY MANNER AND POTENTIALLY EMORY ESTATES, EMORY MANNER, EXCUSE ME.
WHICH IS MAYBE, MAYBE NOT, DEPENDING ON HOW THOSE REVIEWS GO.
WE JUST GOT THEM IN AND PRELIMINARY PLAN, SO THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION TO GO OVER.
SO APRIL 2ND, THE TIMING OF THE CALENDAR DAY.
OH REALLY? YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? IT JUST, IT WAS A SHORTER YEAH.
MONTH BECAUSE IT'S APRIL 2ND VERSUS, OKAY.
SO MAYBE NOT EVEN A SECOND, BUT WE'LL SEE.
WE'VE STARTED, SO WE'LL SEE, WE'LL SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.
APPARENTLY JOE'S GETTING PAID BY THE WORD
AND THEN THE, THE EAC WILL BE ON, ON THE 19TH FOR EVERYBODY TO SHOW UP EARLY IN 10TH.
JUST A QUESTION IS, IS THERE MUCH PROGRESS WITH ANY OF THESE OTHERS ON IAN STREET, COLLEGEVILLE? I MEAN, ARE THEY JUST DORMANT OR NO, I KNOW THAT YOUR KEY STATION AND, AND 1 72 HOPWOOD, THEY PUT IN SOME LAND TO, DIDN'T THEY? WE HAVE 1 72.
NO, UM, ONE 40 WHITAKER, THEY HAVE PUT A PROPOSAL IN FRONT OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS THAT, BECAUSE IT'S A LEGAL QUESTION AND THERE'S THIS LEASE, THEY'RE BYPASSING YOU AND, AND WE'RE JUST, THEY'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT IT.
THE BOARD MEETING ON 17TH, THEY PUT IN A PLAN.
THE ORIGINAL PLAN THEY TALKED ABOUT WAS, I THINK 60, I THINK THE LATEST PLAN IS 48 OR SOMETHING LESS.
DON'T QUOTE ME ON NUMBERS 'CAUSE I, EVERYTHING IS BLURRY AT THIS POINT.
SO THEY, THEY PUT IN A PROPOSAL FOR LESS AND THE BOARD NEEDS, IT NEEDS TO WEIGH IN ON IT.
'CAUSE THE BOARD NEEDS TO MAKE THE DECISION IF THEY'RE WILLING TO AMEND THE LEASE.
AND THAT'S A WHOLE LEGAL QUESTION THAT I'M NOT GONNA GET IN WITH.
THAT WAS APRIL 17TH, YOU SAID THAT WAS GONNA COME? NO, THAT WOULD BE ON THE MARCH 17TH.
THE AMELIA STREET, THEY'RE OUT THERE.
COLLEGEVILLE ROAD, LOVERS LANE, I BELIEVE.
NOTHING NEW YORKY STATION, NOTHING NEW.
JEN HAS SOME PLANS SHE'S REVIEWING.
IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? NO, WE HAD THEM IN, WE ISSUED OUR LETTER.
IT WENT OUT JUST TO THE SMALL GROUP.
I SAID 12 ONE SOUTH COLLEGE ROAD ROAD.
THEY'RE REVIEWING AND REVISING SOME OF THEIR PLANS AND THEN EM, EMORY MANOR, AS I MENTIONED, THAT POTENTIAL FOR MAYBE SOMETIME IN APRIL AND IROQUOIS DRIVE THREE LOT SUBDIVISION.
WE'D NEVER MADE A RECOMMENDATION ON IT.
BUT THEY'RE STILL WORKING THROUGH SOME ISSUES AND THEY ARE MAKING PROGRESS ON THEM.
REALLY MANY OF THESE THAT ARE REALLY PERCOLATING? NO.
YOU KNOW, I, I GUARANTEE EVERYBODY ON THIS LIST WANTS TO BE ON THE NEXT AGENDA, BUT WE DON'T HAVE PLANS TO REVIEW, SO, OKAY.
UM, I THINK WHAT THIS GENTLEMAN TONIGHT WAS, I MEAN, HE'S DEALING WITH FOUR HOMES, SO
IT'S NOT AN EASY CRANK TO TURN, SO, NO, BUT THAT'S NOT OUR PROBLEM, SO.
UM, ANYONE WANNA MAKE A MOTION TO JUST CLOSE THE MEETING? I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, UH, CLOSE, UH, TODAY'S MEETING.
UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.