[00:00:01]
I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD.[CALL TO ORDER / MOTION TO APPROVE FEBRUARY 19, 2025 AGENDA]
ALRIGHT, I'D LIKE TO CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER FOR THE UPPER PROVIDENCE PLANNING COMMISSION.UH, DO I HEAR A MOTION TO, UH, APPROVE THE, UH, AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING? I'LL MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA AS WRITTEN.
THAT'S PRETTY SIMPLE RIGHT NOW WITH THREE OF US, ISN'T IT?
UM, ANY COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE? OKAY, GOOD.
AS YOU CAN SEE, WE'RE, UH, SLIGHTLY UNDERSTAFFED TONIGHT.
WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WINTER.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
CONTINUING ON.WE HAVE TO COVER THE OFFICIAL MAP TONIGHT.
DISCUSS THAT AND ALSO THE RIGHT OF WAY.
SO THAT BEING SAID, I THINK MM-HMM
IT'LL BE UP TO YOU, JEFF, UM, AS YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU AND HAS SHOWN UP ON THE SCREEN AND IS ACTUALLY BACK THERE.
THE OFFICIAL MAP, THIS IS THE OFFICIAL MAP WE TALKED ABOUT LAST WEEK THAT WE SORT OF BUTCHERED UP.
WE, WE DREW A BUNCH OF LINES NOTES ON IT.
ANTHONY WENT THROUGH AND ADDED SOME THINGS AND THAT'S WHAT'S PRINTED THERE ABOUT, UM, FUTURE ROAD PROJECTS.
AND YOU'LL SEE IT BETTER ON THE SECOND MAP.
IT'S A LITTLE, THERE'S A LOT ON THE, ON THE FIRST MAP.
SO WHAT I'VE DONE IS I'VE GONE AND, AND STARTED THE OFFICIAL SO WE'RE, SO WE'RE DOING, SO WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT OF WAY NOW? NO, NO, NO.
THIS, THIS IS JUST THE OFFICIAL MAP.
IT'S JUST ANTHONY DID ADD, 'CAUSE THE OFFICIAL MAP WILL SHOW ROAD PROJECTS ON IT.
SO WHAT I'VE DONE IS I'VE GONE THROUGH THE OFFICIAL MAP AND STARTED TO CLEAN IT UP, GET RID OF SOME OF THE INFORMATION THAT WAS ON THERE, UM, JUST 'CAUSE IT WASN'T VERY, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT ARE PASSED AND PROPERTIES WE HAVE ARE SHOWN ON HERE.
WHAT WE NEED TO SORT OF MOVE FORWARD WITH AT THIS POINT IS TWO DECISIONS.
THE ORANGE CIRCLES ARE WHERE THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS ARE GOING TO BE, AND I THINK ANTHONY CAN TALK ABOUT THOSE IN A LITTLE MORE DETAIL IN A SECOND.
UM, AND THE GREEN SORT OF ROUNDED SQUARES, ROUNDED RECTANGLES ARE THE AREAS OF OPEN SPACE THAT WE'RE GONNA FOCUS ON.
ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR YOU IS, DO YOU WANT ME TO IDENTIFY ANY PARCEL THAT'S A CERTAIN SIZE AND JUST IDENTIFY ALL THE PARCELS, WHETHER OR NOT THEY'VE CONTACTED US OR WHETHER OR NOT THEY EVEN WANNA SELL.
AND IF A PROPERTY OWNER WANTS TO SELL, THEY CAN COME TO US.
IF THEY WANNA BE TAKEN OFF THE MAP, WE CAN ADJUST THE MAP AT THAT TIME.
IT'S REALLY JUST A PLANNING DOCUMENT TO SAY, LOOK, AT SOME POINT WE'D LIKE TO REACH OUT TO, TO THIS, TO THIS OWNER, TO THIS PROPERTY, AND SEE IF THEY'D BE INTERESTED IN SELLING OR TRADING DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
UM, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT REPRESENTING THAT ON THE MAP AS FAR AS SIZE? YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY ANYTHING LIKE FIVE AND 10 ACRES AND ABOVE.
I MEAN, YEAH, I THINK ANYTHING BELOW THAT IT'S, IT'S COST PROHIBITIVE.
WELL, I, I WOULD THINK FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, I THINK IT'S GOOD TO IDENTIFY THOSE AREAS WHERE WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE OPEN SPACE PRESERVATION.
UM, YOU KNOW HOW THAT ACTUALLY, I, I GUESS THE, THE QUESTION IS, WOULD YOU LIKE TO, I WOULD YOU LIKE THE MAP TO SORT OF SHOW THESE ROUNDED SQUARES? OR WOULD YOU LIKE IT TO SHOW SPECIFIC PARCELS IN A SPECIFIC COLOR? I REALIZE WE'RE GETTING A LOT OF COLORS ON THIS MAP AND IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO READ THAT'S GONNA GET FIXED.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S SORT OF THE NEXT TRANSITION OF THIS MAP.
UM, I WOULD PROBABLY PREFER SPECIFICS.
UH, JERRY? YEAH, I, I WAS GONNA SAY, I, THAT MAY BE MORE HELPFUL IF THE MAP DOESN'T BECOME TOO UNWIELDY BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S A LARGE SIZE AND IT'S EASY TO SEE.
BUT, BUT, UM, IT IS A LITTLE BIT HARD TO HANDLE.
AND, UH, WOULD, IF YOU DID A SMALLER VERSION, WOULD THAT INFORMATION GET LOST IF YOU DID IT AT A SMALLER SCALE? WHAT I CAN ALSO DO IS, UM, I COULD TAKE THE MAP AND, EXCUSE ME, PUT, UM, A LARGE MAP AND THEN HAVE SMALL, LIKE THE FIRST MAP AND, AND PUT SMALLER BUBBLE SORT OF SHOWING, YOU KNOW, SPECIFIC PARCELS AND BLOWING THEM UP.
SO IT'S A LITTLE EASIER TO READ.
UM, AND THEN EVEN TAKE THAT AND SORT OF PUT IT INTO A LITTLE BIT OF A BOOKLET THAT BECOMES, IT'S NOT THE OFFICIAL MAP, BUT IT BECOMES A BOOKLET ABOUT THE OFFICIAL MAP THAT'S FOUR OR FIVE PAGES LONG AND PEOPLE COULD FLIP THROUGH IT.
SO THAT'S A LITTLE EASIER TO READ AND DOWNLOAD FROM THE WEBSITE.
YEAH, I, I THINK THAT'S A FINE IDEA.
THE BIG MAP KIND OF GIVES YOU THE OVERALL PICTURE AND THEN YOU COULD GO TO THE, THE INSETS, UH, FOR THE DETAIL.
SO YEAH, I, I, I LIKE THAT IDEA.
YEAH, I THINK THAT SOUNDS GOOD.
[00:05:01]
IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST MAP, YOU CAN SEE WHERE WE HAVE ROAD PROJECTS, THERE'S DASH LINES AND THERE'S PRETTY SPECIFIC DRAWINGS OF WHERE THE, WHAT THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS ARE.ANTHONY AND I TALKED ABOUT IT THIS WEEK AND WE ARE NOT QUITE TO THAT POINT YET.
I THINK ANTHONY'S TEAM WILL PUT THAT TOGETHER FOR ME, AND I'LL PUT THAT IN THE MAP.
I PROBABLY WASN'T MORE READY THAN ANTHONY WAS.
I'M SURE HE COULD HAVE GOTTEN IT DONE.
SO, BUT I, I, I THINK WHERE THERE ARE THE ORANGE CIRCLES, I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'LL PUT THE SPECIFIC TRANSIT PROJECTS AND, AND ROAD PROJECTS AND SOMEHOW GET THOSE, TRY TO HIGHLIGHT THOSE AS WELL SO YOU CAN SEE THEM A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
I, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
BUT YOU KNOW, REALLY, UM, 'CAUSE 'CAUSE THOSE ARE ALREADY DEFINED.
AND SO IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE THEM AS PART OF THIS.
AND OBVIOUSLY AS WE MOVE FORWARD INTO THE FUTURE, YOU KNOW, WITH, AS WE TALK ABOUT THE, UH, RIGHT OF WAYS, WHAT HAVE YOU, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT THE, AND CONSTRUCTION STARTS, UM, THERE WILL BE OTHER FUTURE TO, YOU KNOW, ROAD IMPROVEMENTS, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, WHATEVER.
AND ONE OTHER THING, LET ME JUST WRITE A QUICK NOTE THAT NOW I'VE LOST WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.
UM, OH, THE TRAILS ON THERE, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE BLUE DASHED LINE ON THE, ON THE LARGER MAP RIGHT, IS, UM, A, A TRAIL PLAN FROM 2016.
WE HAD INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS THIS YEAR, THIS BUDGET SEASON, ABOUT APPLYING FOR A GRANT TO, UM, REDO OUR TRAIL PLAN.
BOTH THE, I'M NOT GONNA PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH, BUT I THINK I CAN SPEAK FOR A LITTLE BIT.
THE, THE PUBLIC, THE, THE PARKS DIRECTOR AND I BOTH REALIZED THAT WE HAVE A, THE GOOD BEGINNINGS OF A TRAIL SYSTEM, BUT WE'RE MISSING SOME CONNECTIONS.
AND THE CONNECTIONS THAT WE'VE ALL WORKED ON FOR THE PAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS, WE CAN'T SEEM TO GET TO CONNECT AND GET TO WORK BECAUSE OF EXISTING TOPOGRAPHY, EXISTING STRUCTURES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO WHAT I WANTED TO DO, AND WHAT I RECOMMENDED TO THE BOARD AND TO THE, TO THE STAFF HERE, AND, UM, WE WERE ABLE TO RECEIVE, IT WAS LOOK FOR A GRANT FOR A TRAIL PLANNING MASTER PLAN TO REDO OUR TRAIL PLANNING MASTER PLAN.
SO WE WERE AWARDED THIS GRANT, I THINK IT WAS AROUND $78,000.
I THINK THE WHOLE PROGRAM'S GONNA COST US AROUND A HUNDRED, UM, TO HAVE A FIRM COME IN HERE AND REWRITE AND REDO OUR TRAIL MASTER PLAN.
I'M ALSO PUSHING FOR, IT'S AN RFP PROCESS.
I'M ALSO HOPING THAT CAMPBELL THOMAS, WHICH IS LIKE THE PREEMINENT TRAIL PLANNING FIRM IN THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA TO DO THIS PLAN FOR US.
THEY'VE WORKED WITH US HAND IN HAND.
WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH AN RFP PROCESS, BUT I'M REALLY HOPING THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT THEIR PROJECT, YOU KNOW, OR THAT THEIR, THEIR RFP WORKS WELL FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
SO THE LONG AND THE SHORT OF IT IS FOR NOW, I WANNA SHOW THE BLUE DASH LINES OF SORT OF THE LAST TERRELL MASTER PLAN THAT WE HAD.
AND THEN WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THOSE MAY CHANGE AND THAT PART OF THE, THE TRAIL PLANNING IS GONNA BE WHOEVER WINS THAT PROJECT COMING AND SPEAKING TO YOU AND HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH YOU ABOUT IT.
AND ONCE THAT PROJECT IS DONE AND IDENTIFIES WHERE THE TRAILS ARE GONNA BE, WE AMEND THIS OFFICIAL MAP TO REFLECT THAT, IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
DID, DID THESE HAVE SPECIFIC DESCRIPTORS, UH, JEFF, LIKE ANY OF 'EM HAVE NAMES OR DESCRIPTORS THAT CAN KIND OF NO, WE NEVER REALLY, WE NEVER REALLY GOT TO THAT LEVEL.
I MEAN, I, I THINK WE SHOULD, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEM WE HAVE INTERNAL NAMES FOR LIKE THE PICO POWER LINE TRAIL THAT SORT OF RUNS UP PARALLELING OLD STATE ROAD.
UM, SOME OF THE OTHERS ARE JUST REALLY NAMED BY THE, THE ROAD THAT THEY'RE ASSOCIATED WITH.
DO, DO, DOES THIS REFLECT, UM, THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED AND THE TENTATIVE TRAILS? NO, IT DOES NOT.
AND THAT'S ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO PUT ONTO THE, THE NEXT ITERATION OF THIS PLAN IS I DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO DO THAT, TO GO THROUGH AND REALLY RESEARCH THAT.
BUT THAT IS MY PLAN TO HAVE THAT ON THERE TO SHOW THAT AND HAVE A CATEGORY OF TRAILS TO BE INSTALLED VIA LAND DEVELOPMENT.
THAT, THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, GOOD AS WELL.
I MEAN, I THINK THAT WOULD BE ALL THAT WOULD SHOW, YOU KNOW, SOME ADDITIONAL CONNECTIVITY.
UM, THAT'S, IF, IF EVERYTHING MOVES FORWARD AS PROPOSED OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT WOULD, WOULD SHOW SOME ADDITIONAL CONNECTIVITY, WHICH WOULD BE GOOD.
AND THE LAST THING THAT I HAVE IS, YOU CAN SEE ON THESE MAPS, THERE'S A, A PINK LINE.
IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO SEE, BUT IT'S A PINK LINE THAT, UM, DEFINES WHERE SIDEWALKS ARE.
AND, UM, YEAH, IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO SEE, BUT THEY ARE, AGAIN, BACK THERE IF ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE WANTS TO SEE IT.
[00:10:01]
SO WHAT I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO DO IS IDENTIFY AREAS OF SIDEWALK CONNECTIVITY THAT'S REALLY A LITTLE BIT WITHIN NEIGHBORHOODS.LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT THE OAKS AREA OR THE ROERS FORD AREA, SOME OF THOSE AREAS THAT AREN'T GONNA BE CONNECTED WITH TRAILS BECAUSE THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, A GRID SYSTEM, YOU KNOW, OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS THAT DON'T SHOW A LOT OF SIDEWALKS, BUT IDENTIFY AREAS THAT WE COULD LOOK AT HAVING, UM, SIDEWALK CONNECTIVITY AND, AND WORKING TOWARDS THAT AS PART OF OUR, YOU KNOW, PLANNING PROCESS.
AND, UM, ADVI, YOU KNOW, ADVISING THE BOARD.
LET ME PULL THIS UP REAL QUICK AND I CAN SHOW THE AUDIENCE AND SHOW YOU WHAT I MEAN.
I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE AREAS JUST BETWEEN THESE GREEN AND RED ONES, THERE'S TWO NEIGHBORHOODS AND THEY'RE NOT CONNECTED BY SIDEWALKS.
YOU KNOW, HOW CAN WE CONNECT THAT? HOW CAN WE CONNECT AND COMPLETE SIDEWALKS IN THROUGH THIS AREA WHERE THE OAKS AREA, SORT OF THE OLDER VILLAGE OF OAKS HAS SIDEWALKS AND THEN NOT, AND THEN SIDEWALKS AND THEN NOT, AND HOW CAN WE LOOK, HOW CAN WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT AS, AS SOMETHING THAT, THAT SORT OF A GOAL OF THE TOWNSHIP IS TO CONNECT THESE SIDEWALKS? IS THERE A MISSION OR ANYTHING BEHIND THE TRAILS? ARE WE TRYING TO MAKE EXERCISE? OBVIOUSLY EXERCISE, UM, WOULD BE KEY.
ARE WE TRYING TO GO SOMEWHERE? THE, THE 2016 PLAN, THE GOAL OF THAT PLAN WAS TO CONNECT THE TWO MAJOR TRAILS OF, YOU CAN SEE HERE THE, THE LINES AROUND THE, UM, THE, THE SORT OF MEAT DOWN IN, DOWN IN OAKS MEET DOWN HERE AT THE CONFLUENCE OF THE SCHULL AND THE PERKIOMEN.
THERE'S THE PERKIOMEN TRAIL, WHICH RUNS ALONG THE, THE EASTERN BORDER OF OUR TOWNSHIP ALL THE WAY UP INTO COLLEGEVILLE.
AND ACTUALLY, I THINK IT GOES ALL THE WAY UP TO GREEN LANE, I THINK GREEN LANE.
SO, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE SCHULL RIVER TRAIL, WHICH IS THE, ALONG THE SCHUYLKILL RIVER, OBVIOUSLY, BUT IT'S, IF I COULD FIND MY MOUSE, I COULD SHOW YOU THAT.
IT, IT, UM, THAT TIES INTO THE PERKY, IT TURN TIES INTO THE PERKY.
BUT YOU CAN ALSO TAKE THAT ALL THE WAY DOWN TO PHILADELPHIA.
YOU KNOW, YOU COULD, UM, YOU CAN GO TO, YOU KNOW, HERE IT ENDS AT THE UPPER CHUCO VALLEY PARK, BUT THERE ARE PLACES TO CROSS OVER AND TAKE IT INTO PHOENIXVILLE AND THEN TAKE IT ALL THE WAY UP TO, I THINK, GENERALLY REDDING IN THAT AREA ABOVE THAT.
I MEAN IT COVILLE IT GOES PRETTY FAR.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THE TOWNSHIP HAS ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT IS CONNECTING IT ON OUR, ON OUR TOWNSHIP SIDE.
SO YOU'D HAVE TWO TRAILS, ONE ON EACH SIDE, BUT THEN ALSO THE IDEA IS TO, WE HAVE THESE TWO GREAT TRAILS, TWO GREAT REGIONAL TRAILS, BUT YOU HAVE NO WAY TO GET THERE FROM ANY, ANYWHERE IN THE TOWNSHIP WITHOUT DRIVING THERE AND FINDING A PLACE TO PARK.
SO THE TRAIL IDEA, THE TRAIL CONNECTIONS WERE TO CONNECT THE INTERNAL TRAIL NETWORK AND THE INTERNAL NEIGHBORHOODS TO THE EXTERNAL TRAILS.
AND THAT WAS THE, THAT WAS THE IDEA BEHIND IT.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE, THE, THE GOAL AND THE OBJECTIVES OF THE NEW TRAIL MASTER PLAN WE'RE GONNA DO.
WE'RE GOING TO BE, THAT'S FOR THEM TO WRITE.
OBVIOUSLY WHOEVER DOES THAT PLAN, BUT THAT'S STILL MY GOAL, IS TO BE ABLE TO WALK FROM ANY OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, ANY OF OUR SUBDIVISIONS, TO GET TO A REGIONAL TRAIL.
SO THOSE ARE THE FOUR THINGS THAT I THINK THE PLAN STILL NEEDS.
WE NEED TO TAKE THE, THE OPEN SPACE FROM BUBBLES DOWN TO PARCELS.
WE NEED TO, UM, SOLIDIFY THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS AND, AND SHOW THEM SPECIFICALLY SO THAT WE CAN SEE EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING.
ARE YOU STILL COMFORTABLE WITH CARRYING FORWARD THE EXTENSION OF BECHTEL ROAD AND HOPWOOD ROAD? THAT'S ON THE FIRST PLAN, WHICH I CAN SHOW YOU.
THERE'S, THERE'S, I THINK, TWO ROAD IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE DIDN'T FINISH.
AND THAT IS THE ONE RIGHT HERE BY THE NUMBER TWO, THE ROAD IMPROVEMENT TO EXTEND BECHTEL ROAD, TO CONNECT IT TO BECHTEL ROAD, UM, WHICH IS NOW CALLED HOPWOOD IN THROUGH HERE.
AND THEN IT WOULD CONNECT TO BE BECHTEL ROAD IN THROUGH THERE.
SO WE HAD NEVER FINISHED THIS PROJECT.
THAT'S ONE THAT WE NEVER FINISHED.
AND THEN THE OTHER WAS, UM, THE TRAIL OR THE ROAD THROUGH THIS, WHAT'S NOW ZONED INDUSTRIAL AND A PARCEL THAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IN TERMS OF OPEN SPACE
[00:15:01]
OR REZONING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.ARE YOU COMFORTABLE CARRYING THOSE TWO ROAD PROJECTS FORWARD? UH, YEAH.
TO SHOW THEM AS POTENTIAL, RIGHT? YES.
AND I GUESS THE SAME SHOULD APPLY FOR, I KNOW WE'RE, WE, WE'RE NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT IT TONIGHT, BUT THE RIDGE PIKE ZONING.
WE SORT OF HAVE A RELIEF ROAD BACK HERE IN SORT OF IN BETWEEN THESE TWO RED ARROWS THAT LIDLE HAS STARTED TO INSTALL.
WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT THAT COULD CONNECT TO IT, AND THEN IF ANYTHING DEVELOPS TO THE SIDE, I THINK IT'S STILL MY RECOMMENDATION THAT WE HAVE THIS SORT OF RELIEF ROUTE FOR RIDGE PIKE THAT ASSUMING THAT THESE DEVELOP AS ADDITIONAL SHOPPING CENTERS OR ADDITIONAL AREAS THAT AREN'T RESIDENTIAL, THAT THEY CONNECT WITHOUT HAVING TO DRIVE OUT ONTO RIDGE PIKE AND DRIVE OUT ONTO RIDGE PIKE AND, AND DO THAT.
I, I, I AGREE WITH YOU A HUNDRED PERCENT AND IF THINGS CHANGE, WE CAN ALWAYS REEVALUATE, BUT I PREFER YOUR APPROACH AS, AS THE, THE BEST, BEST ROUTE TO TAKE.
SO THEN THAT'S THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS, THE TRAIL MASTER PLAN, AGAIN SHOWING THE 2016.
AND IF THERE ARE AREAS IN THE 2016 NOTES THAT THE BLUE LINE THAT YOU FEEL YOU WANT TO CONNECT OR THAT WE'RE MISSING, WE CAN ADD THEM AND, AND THEN WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE TELL WHOEVER DOES THE TRAIL MASTER PLAN THAT THEY NEED TO ADD THIS AS WELL.
SO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT NEXT TIME.
AND THEN SOME NOTES ABOUT SIDEWALKS, AND SOME OF THIS IS GONNA BE TEXT IN THERE ON THE PLAN SAYING, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY ONE OF OUR GOALS IS TO PRESERVE ANYTHING THAT'S ALONG THE RIVER, AND WE'RE NOT GONNA IDENTIFY EVERY SINGLE PARCEL ON THE RIVER.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE A NOTE IN THERE THAT SAYS, WHEN A PARCEL BECOMES AVAILABLE ON THE RIVER, THE TOWNSHIP SHOULD LOOK AT PURCHASING THAT OR PURCHASING DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS TO, YOU KNOW, REMOVE MORE AND MORE STRUCTURES FROM DOWN THERE TO MAKE IT A SAFER ENVIRONMENT.
SAME THING WITH, I, I KNOW WE, WE SHOW HOA PROPERTY AND WE SHOW STATE PROPERTY AND WE SHOW MONTGOMERY COUNTY PROPERTY.
WE'RE ALL STILL A LITTLE BIT TENDER FROM PARKHOUSE.
SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT WHILE THEY SAY THAT IT'S OPEN SPACE AT SOME POINT STATE PROPERTY OR COUNTY PROPERTY, IT'S NOT IN OUR CONTROL.
SO I, MY PLAN IS IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S OKAY WITH, IT'S TO PUT A NOTE ON THERE TO SAY IF SOMETHING WERE TO EVER CHANGE, OR IF IT WERE EVER TO BECOME, YOU KNOW, AVAILABLE FROM THE STATE FOR US TO ACQUIRE OWNERSHIP OF COUNTY OR STATE PROPERTY, THAT WE WOULD DO IT.
THAT WE, WE SHOULD LOOK, WE SHOULD WE INTO DOING THAT.
AND THEN WITH HOA PROPERTY, WHILE IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY CAN NEVER DEVELOP IT BECAUSE THEY WERE DEVELOPED UNDER ZONING AND IT WAS A TRADE OFF FOR OPEN SPACE AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF, STILL TO HAVE SOMETHING WRITTEN ON THE OPEN SPACE ON THIS PLAN TO SAY TO SOMETHING TO ENSURE THAT THIS ALWAYS REMAINS OPEN SPACE, THAT IT ALWAYS REMAINS GREEN.
AS OPPOSED TO DEVELOPMENT IN THE FUTURE.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THE TOWNSHIP ACQUIRE THAT BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A HUGE AMOUNT OF LAND TO ACQUIRE, BUT SOMETHING TO WHERE, IF IT WERE TO, IF, IF SOMETHING WERE TO EVER CHANGE, AND I'M GONNA HAVE TO RUN THIS THROUGH THE LAWYERS AND ALL THAT STUFF, IF SOMETHING WERE TO EVER CHANGE TO THE RULES ABOUT HOA PROPERTIES THAT WE WOULD ENSURE THAT THEY COULD NEVER BE DEVELOPED JUST TO, IT'S, IT IS GIVING US A LITTLE BIT OF A I AGREE.
THAT THAT SHOULD BE THE OBJECTIVE.
AND OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THIS, IT, IT'S A PLAN.
BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE OUGHT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE HIGHEST EXPECTATION OF MAINTAINING THE OPEN SPACE WHERE APPROPRIATE AND WE'LL DEAL WITH EVERY INDIVIDUAL CASE AS IT, AS IT, YOU KNOW, COMES BEFORE US.
I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S THE RIGHT, RIGHT WAY TO PROCEED.
WHICH BRINGS UP ANOTHER ISSUE.
WHEN WE'RE APPROVING A RECOMMENDING APPROVAL FOR A PLAN, SHOULD WE BE PUTTING ON THERE ANY OPEN SPACE THAT'S SORT OF AT THE EDGE OR CORNERS OF THINGS? NO FURTHER DEVELOPMENT SHOULD BE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? I MEAN, WELL, QUITE OFTEN YOU SEE THAT ON PLANS.
THERE, THERE ARE SOME PARCELS THAT WE'VE RECOMMENDED THAT THEY'RE LARGER PARCELS, WE SAY, AND SOME OF OUR ZONING SAYS, YOU CAN'T SUBDIVIDE IT.
WHAT? AND, AND THE SAME THING WITH HOA PROPERTY WHEN IT'S HOA PROPERTY, IT'S WRITTEN IN THE DEVELOPER'S AGREEMENT IN THE HOA AGREEMENT THAT IT CAN'T BE DEVELOPED OR BUILT ON.
BUT LAWS CHANGE AND ATTITUDES CHANGE TOWARDS THINGS THAT WE MAY NOT KNOW OR UNDERSTAND IN 10 OR 15 YEARS, BUT IN 20 YEARS, THE TOWNSHIP STILL WANTS TO HAVE THAT AS OPEN SPACE.
WE DON'T WANT, WE DON'T WANT SOMEONE TO SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, LIKE, LET'S TAKE A PIECE HERE THAT'S, UM, SEE THE ONE THAT THAT IDENTIFIES HESS, IF YOU GO TO THE LEFT AND DOWN A LITTLE BIT, THERE'S SOME OPEN SPACE THERE THAT WHILE THAT'S TOWNSHIP OWNED, LET'S SAY IT WAS HOA OWNED, IT'S A BIG FLAT PIECE OF OPEN SPACE.
IF IN THE FUTURE SOME LAW CHANGES
[00:20:01]
OR SOME PRECEDENT CHANGES.AND THAT HOA CAME TO US AND SAID, HEY, WE WANNA SELL THIS OPEN SPACE, YOU KNOW, AND WE'RE GONNA SELL IT TO A DEVELOPER TOWNSHIP NEEDS TO HAVE SOME PROTECTION WITH THAT.
AND I DON'T KNOW LEGALLY WHAT WE WOULD HAVE OR WHAT WE DON'T HAVE.
AT LEAST TO SHOW WHAT I'M HERE SAYING, THAT IF, IF OPEN SPACE WAS TO EVER, IF OUTSIDE OWNERSHIP OPEN SPACE WAS TO EVER CHANGE OWNERSHIP OR TO CHANGE THE ABILITY TO DEVELOP, THE TOWNSHIP SHOULD LOOK TO ACQUIRE IT.
AND THIS, THAT HAPPENS QUITE OFTEN WITH GOLF COURSES, RIGHT? YOU SEE IT ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES WHERE THEY'RE NOT DOING REAL WELL IN CERTAIN CASES.
OTHER CASES THEY ARE, BUT WHERE THEY'RE NOT, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE HOMES AROUND IT GONNA DO WHEN IT GROWS UP IN WEEDS? YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? RIGHT.
THE, THE AREA OF KING OF PRUSSIA.
THAT'S WHERE THAT ALL CAME FROM, WAS THAT'S RIGHT.
IT WAS A GOLF COURSE, A GOLF COURSE THAT WAS THERE.
AND ACTUALLY FORD'S EDGE, UM, WHICH IS OVER BY WHERE BOB AND I LIVE, THEY HAVE, THEIR PROPERTY WAS NEVER DEVELOPED.
HALF OF IT WAS BUILT IN 1968, THE OTHER HALF WAS NEVER BUILT.
AND IT'S SHOWN ON THE PLAN THAT IT COULD BE BUILT.
UM, THEY'VE COME IN AND THEY'VE GOTTEN ZONING AND RELIEF FOR IT.
I MEAN, IT, ALL OF THE NEIGHBORS ARE LIKE, WELL, WE JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS OPEN SPACE.
AND THAT'S KIND OF PART OF MY GERMINATION OF THIS THOUGHT IS IF WE THINK IT'S OPEN SPACE, LET'S FIND A WAY TO PROTECT IT SO THAT IT IS, I MEAN, I'M NOT PUTTING MY JUDGMENT ON WHAT FORD'S EDGE IS DOING.
WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS THEY'RE DOING IT FOR THEIR OWN RIGHT.
IT'S THE PRINCIPLE, BUT IT'S THE PRINCIPLE OF IT THAT, THAT, WHILE WE THINK OF IT AS OPEN SPACE NOW, HOW DO WE PROTECT IT LONG TERM SO THAT MY SON, IF HE'S STILL LIVING HERE, THEN, YOU KNOW, AND ASSUMES MY POSITION, WHICH I HOPE HE NEVER DOES.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, HE, HE, UH, YOU KNOW, HE'S IN, HE'S IN THAT SORT OF POSITION OF, OF THE OPEN SPACE BEING PROTECTED WITH LAWS CHANGING AND ATTITUDES CHANGING.
I MEAN, ZONING IS A LIVING THING AND, AND LAW'S A LIVING THING.
SO THAT, THAT'S FIVE THINGS THAT THE NEXT MAP WILL DO.
THE OPEN SPACE, THE ONLY, THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE, THE, UH, THE TRAIL MASTER PLAN, ANY IDEA WHEN THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY HAPPEN? I, I WOULD SAY THAT THE RFP IS PROBABLY GONNA GO OUT WITHIN THE NEXT MONTH OR TWO.
I THINK IT'S GONNA BE FAIRLY QUICK TO START TO, TO AT LEAST GET THE RFP OUT THERE.
I MEAN, I CAME UP WITH THE IDEA AND THEN, AND THEN IT, IT'S FALLING INTO 10.
AND WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, NEED TO PUT A, A FEW DOLLARS IN ADDITION TO THE GRANT MONEY.
AND I WOULD HOPE THAT WE CAN MOVE THAT ALONG PRETTY QUICKLY.
SOMETIMES IT'S GRANT PROCESS, IT, SOMETIMES IT TAKES A WHILE TO GET THEM AWARDED AND THEN IT TAKES A WHILE TO GET THE PAPERWORK SAYING YOU'RE AWARDED AND GETTING THEM TO SIGN OFF ON EVERYTHING.
AND THAT'S NOT EVEN, I MEAN, WE NEVER GET PAID ON THEM UNTIL THE VERY END ANYWAY.
I MEAN, I GUESS SOMETIMES YOU CAN GET PARTIAL PAYMENTS, BUT MOST OF THE TIME WE ARE NOT GETTING PAID.
WE PAY EVERYTHING UP FRONT AND THEN WE GET PAID BACK FOR IT.
SO, YOU KNOW, THEN YOU HAVE TO DO THE, THE RFP PROCESS AND ALL THAT.
'CAUSE IT'S A-D-C-E-D GRANT, SO IT HAS TO BE A PUBLIC PROCESS.
SO I'M GUESSING THAT WE'LL PROBABLY START THE PRO, START THE PLANNING DOCUMENT, START THE PLANNING PROCESS LATE SUMMER, EARLY FALL.
TO BE REALISTIC ABOUT IT LONGER THAN I WOULD'VE HOPED.
BUT
SOMETIMES IT TAKES A LONG TIME FOR DCED JUST TO AWARD IT.
NOW THAT THEY'VE AWARDED IT, IT TAKES THEM ALMOST AS LONG JUST TO GET YOU THE PAPERWORK SAYING IT WAS AWARDED.
WELL, YOU KNOW, WHEN THAT HAPPENS, WE JUST NEED TO THEN, YOU KNOW, UPDATE THIS PLAN ACCORDINGLY.
AND, AND AGAIN, I KNOW WE DIDN'T UPDATE THIS FROM 2008 ON, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WANT TO DO ALMOST ON A YEARLY PROCESS IS TO GO THROUGH AND LIKE WHEN WE DO OUR, OUR RECAP OF WHAT WE'VE GOTTEN DONE WITH A COMP PLAN.
WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE IN THE OFFICIAL MAP? NOTHING.
OR HEY, LET'S MOVE THIS TRAIL OR MOVE THAT.
I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A PLANNING DOCUMENT THAT WE CAN KEEP UPDATE.
WELL, SOMETHING WE'RE NOT MENTIONING ALSO IS THIS INDIVIDUAL THAT YOU MENTIONED, IT'S, I GUESS NOTED AND RENOWNED FOR HIS WORK ON TRAILS.
HE'S PROBABLY PRETTY BUSY, SO YOU MAY WANT TO GET ON TO WE, WE'VE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH HIM AND, AND HE HELPED US WRITE THE GRANT.
HIS FIRM HELPED US WRITE THE GRANT.
SO HE IS ALREADY QUASI ON BOARD THEN? WELL, I, I'M, YOU KNOW, I'M WALKING THAT FINE LINE.
IT, IT'S, IT'S AN OPEN PUBLIC PROCESS.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S PARAMETERS ON WHAT WE, IT'S NOT LOWEST LIKE A ROAD PROJECT.
THERE'S AN RFP AND THEN RESPONSES NEED TO BE DONE.
AND CONSIDERATIONS NEED TO BE, WELL WE'RE, WE'RE WRITING THE RP AND THINGS LIKE THAT, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
I MEAN, IT IS, IT IS A PROCESS THAT ANYBODY OUT THERE LISTENING, IT WILL BE A FAIR PROCESS AND WE WILL EVALUATE EVERYBODY.
SO I WILL WORK ON THOSE FIVE THINGS AND GET THAT FOR THE
[00:25:01]
MEETING ON THE 19TH.THAT'LL BE THE NEXT TIME WE TALK ABOUT THIS.
CAN I, ANTHONY, WHATEVER YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT, CAN I ASK A QUICK QUESTION FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION? YEAH.
FOR YOU, I GUESS THE, LIKE THE ROAD PROJECTS, THE, WE HAD SOME SIDEWALK CONNECTIONS IDENTIFIED IN THAT ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION PLAN.
DO YOU WANNA ALSO COORDINATE TO GET THOSE ON THIS MAP TOO? I, TO HELP US IDENTIFY LIKE WHAT'S PROJECTED AND YES.
WHERE THE GAPS ARE ABSOLUTE THINK THAT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY YES, PLEASE.
I'LL, WE'LL ADD THAT TO THE COORDINATION ALONG WITH THE ROADWAY ITEMS. YEP.
I'LL HAND IT OVER TO ANTHONY FOR WHATEVER HE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT WITH THIS MAP OR THE RIGHT OF WAY MAP.
YEAH, I THINK, I GUESS WE WILL KEEP THE OFFICIAL MAP CONVERSATION GOING JUST TO KIND OF HIGHLIGHT THE ROADWAY PROJECTS LIKE WE COORDINATED.
UM, SO I DON'T SEE THE, IS THIS THE, OKAY, I NEED, THIS IS THE ONE WITH THE ORANGE.
LET ME PULL UP THE RIGHT OF WAY MAP THAT YOU SENT ME.
I CAN RELATE 'EM TO YOUR ORANGE CIRCLES.
UM, THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAD BEEN, THAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED MOST RECENTLY.
UM, ESPECIALLY WITH THE 4 61 SOUTH LEWIS TOWN HOMES.
THAT'S THE INTERSECTION OF LEWIS AND VAUGHN.
CAN I ASK THIS ONE HERE? YEAH.
SO THE IDEA WOULD BE TO SHOW SO THAT THERE'S A SIGNALIZATION SCENARIO THAT'S BEEN COORDINATED AT THE STAFF LEVEL AND WITH THE DEPARTMENT PENDOT.
UM, AND THERE'S SOME PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS THAT WAS DONE SHOWING SIGNALIZATION, AND I GUESS IT WOULD BE A SOUTHBOUND SOUTHBOUND EASTBOUND RIGHT TURN LANE, UM, LEWIS ROAD ONTO VAUGHN.
SO GIVEN THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT PROJECT AND THE TRAFFIC, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CONVERSATION THAT COMES UP IN THAT AREA WITH ALL THE DEVELOPMENTS START THOUGHT WAS TO ADD THAT, UH, LIKE AS A SYMBOL, MAYBE AN ICON OF A SIGNALIZATION AND SHOW THE RIGHT TURN LANE BEING IMPLEMENTED AS PART OF THAT PROJECT.
SO IT'S NOT PART OF A, LIKE A LAND DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT WOULD BE SHOWN ON THE MAP IN THE EVENT THAT, YOU KNOW, THE TOWNSHIP ISN'T, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO SECURE GRANTS AND ALL THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, BUT ANY, YOU KNOW, HOW THESE THINGS GO.
UM, SO IF THERE'S FUTURE DEVELOPMENT THERE, IT'S SHOWN IN THE OFFICIAL MAP, THEN THERE'S, EVERYONE KNOWS THAT IT'S COMING.
UM, AND THEY, THEY CAN CONTRIBUTE OR NEED TO HELP US PLAN IF LAND DEVELOPMENT DEVELOPMENT'S APPROVED.
WHAT'S THAT? THAT DEVELOPMENT IS, IS APPROVED THE DEVELOPMENT'S.
IT IS PROCEEDING THEY STARTED.
SO, BUT WE'RE TAKING FROM A TOWNSHIP SIDE, WE'RE TAKING THE NEXT STEP WITH THAT INTERSECTION.
WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT ELSE WE CAN DO AT THAT INTERSECTION THAT, THAT PROBABLY IS NOT GOING TO BE DEVELOPER FUNDED, BUT THAT DEVELOPER, THEY WERE VERY, AS ANY DEVELOPER CAN BE VERY ADAMANT ABOUT WHERE THE LINE WAS OF WHAT EXTRA THINGS THEY MAY OR MAY NOT FUND, BUT THEY'VE ALREADY COMMITTED TO SOME YES.
THE POINT IS, IS THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL THAT WE WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN.
AND THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.
THAT WOULD BE, AND IT WOULD BE OP, THE RIGHT TURN LANE IS OPPOSITE, UH, OKAY.
ADJACENT TO THE CHURCH ACTUALLY ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROAD.
SO THAT WAS ONE THAT WE HAD IDENTIFIED TO SHOW MOVING DOWN TOWARDS THE BOTTOM, I GUESS THE SOUTHERN END.
UM, THAT'S THE ROUNDABOUT THAT'S ALSO BEEN MUCH DISCUSSED, THE ROUNDABOUT AND THE, UH, BRIDGE REPLACEMENT.
SO THE IDEA WOULD BE TO, GIVEN THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT IMPROVEMENT, ALSO SHOW THAT ON THIS MAP.
ANYTHING NEW ON THAT AS FAR AS TIMING OR, UH, WELL, RIGHT, SO WE, WE HAD RECEIVED A GRANT IN ORDER TO DO PRELIMINARY ENGINEERING.
ALL THE FUNDS FOR THE PRELIMINARY ENGINEERING HAVE BEEN EXHAUSTED, I GUESS AT THIS POINT.
SO WE'VE TAKEN IT TO A LINE AND GRADE AND BASICALLY A PRELIMINARY, PRELIMINARY SUBMISSION TO PENDOT THROUGH THE PENDOT E PERMITTING PROCESS.
UM, WE'VE RECEIVED COMMENTS BACK, SO WE HAVE A DIRECTION FORWARD.
WE'VE GOTTEN THE LOCATION OF THE ROUNDABOUT HAS BEEN ESSENTIALLY FINALIZED AND COORDINATED THE AMOUNT OF LANES, ALL THAT STUFF HAS BEEN FLUSHED OUT FROM THE TRAFFIC SIDE.
UM, TSNL BRIDGE PLANS HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED AND WE'VE GOTTEN GENERAL FEEDBACK.
SO I THINK THE, ESSENTIALLY IT'S, IT'S A, LIKE A, A GREEN LIGHT, BUT NOW THE NEXT STEP IS FINAL ENGINEERING AND WORKING OUT ALL THE FINAL COORDINATION WITH, UM, UTILITIES, COORDINATION WITH PARKHOUSE AS THEY CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD.
UM, WE, WE'VE LAID OUT IDENT, YOU KNOW, PRELIMINARY DRAINAGE, BUT WE HAVE TO GET INTO THE DETAILS.
SPECIFICS OF INLETS AND WHERE THEY ARE SIZES, THAT SORT OF THING.
THAT'S THE FINAL ENGINEERING ASPECT.
[00:30:01]
ARE AVAILABLE FOR THAT.AND THAT'S THE NEXT STEP THAT WE'VE BEEN COORDINATING AT STAFF WITH DELTA, WITH TIM AND EVERYBODY TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHERE WE'RE GETTING SOME FUNDS.
THERE'S A PENN M TF GRANT THAT WAS SECURED FOR CONSTRUCTION.
UM, BUT NOW WE'RE TRYING TO, WE'RE TRYING TO GET THE ENGINEERING FUNDS IN ORDER AND THAT MAY TAKE IF SUCCESS, I MEAN, HOW LONG MIGHT THAT TAKE TO ACTUALLY HAPPEN? JUST CURIOUS.
I MEAN, UH, IS THAT A YEAR AWAY? IS IT, UH, I WOULD SAY IT, IT'S PROBABLY MORE REALISTICALLY LIKE TWO YEARS AWAY.
THERE, THERE'S A YEAR A YEAR AWAY IN PERMITTING, UH, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, A YEAR BEYOND THAT TO GET INTO LIKE CONSTRUCTION AND EVERYTHING.
SO IT'S, IT'S ESSENTIALLY LINING UP WITH THE THE PARK HOUSE.
I MEAN THAT'S AS OF RIGHT NOW, THAT'S WHERE THE TIMEFRAMES ARE.
SO THEN AS WE CONTINUE TO MOVE FURTHER SOUTH ON THE MAP, I GUESS JEFF DOWN TO THE VERY BOTTOM, SO THAT'S, UH, EGYPT ROAD AND 29 MM-HMM
SO WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT AT THE LAST MEETING.
UM, THERE WE HAD, IT HAD BEEN DISCUSSED AT A FEW, SEVERAL YEARS BACK, I GUESS ON A POTENTIALLY REALIGNING EGYPT ROAD TO TM TO A CLOSER, LIKE A 90 DEGREE OR A YES.
EGYPT ROAD, 90 DEGREES WITH 29 TO ELIMINATE THAT AWKWARD ACUTE ANGLE THAT YOU HAVE, UM, AND, AND PROVIDE AND, AND WIDEN IT TO PROVIDE TRUCK TURNING ABILITIES AND YOU CAN REMOVE THOSE TRUCK TURNING RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE THERE AT THAT INTERSECTION.
NOW, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A PROP PROPERTY ON THAT CORNER.
UM, THAT HOUSE I BELIEVE WAS ACTUALLY UP FOR SALE AT THE TIME WHERE THOSE DISCUSSIONS WERE GOING ON.
AND THEN, UM, IT HAD SOLD AND THE NEW, THE OWNER THAT'S CURRENTLY THERE, YOU KNOW, IT WAS KIND MOVED IN.
SO, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S BEEN, BEEN DISCUSSED.
IT HAD GOTTEN SOME GREEN LIGHTS.
WE HAD DONE SOME PRELIMINARY CONCEPTS, SOME COST ESTIMATES.
UM, STAFF HAD A, A GOOD FLAVOR FOR PURSUING SOMETHING LIKE THAT IF, IF OPPORTUNITY ARISES IN THE FUTURE.
SO, UM, OUR THOUGHT WOULD BE TO, TO ADD IT ON THERE, NOT AS IF, NOT LIKE YOU'RE ACQUIRING THE PROPERTY TO DO IT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT TO SHOW THAT THAT'S A, A GOAL AND TO IMPROVE THAT INTERSECTION FOR THE TOWNSHIP AND REFLECT IT ON THE OFFICIAL MAP.
I MEAN, AND TO IMPROVE THE LIGHTS TOO.
THAT'S, THAT'S BEEN ANOTHER, YEAH.
THE, UH, THE LIGHTS ARE ONE THING, BUT MORE THAN THAT, I'M NOT SURE WHAT, BASED ON ALL THAT WE KNOW, I MEAN, THERE'S NOT MUCH MANY OPTIONS AVAILABLE.
THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT AN EASY, THAT'S NOT AN EASY AREA, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY A TARGETED, WE, WE'VE IDENTIFIED WHAT COULD BE DONE TO IMPROVE SOME OF THOSE CONDITIONS, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA HAVE ALL THE, ALL THE DUCKS IN A ROAD AND MAKE IT WORK, I GUESS.
ANTHONY, I'M WONDERING, NOT TO MAKE THE MAP TOO COMPLICATED, BUT I WONDER IF YOU, THERE'S A WAY TO MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE ONES THAT, UH, ARE SORT OF GOING TO HAPPEN OR, OR HAVE MORE OF A CHANCE OF HAPPENING THAN THESE ONES THAT ARE JUST SORT OF OPPORTUNITIES THAT MAY HAPPEN IF, SAY THE PROPERTY TURNS OVER AND IT BECOMES AVAILABLE, WHICH, WHO KNOWS, THAT COULD BE 20 YEARS MM-HMM
UM, YEAH, MAYBE WITH A COLOR SCHEME OR SOMETHING.
YEAH, WE CAN, WE CAN LOOK, I MEAN, WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT IT FILES OR SOMETHING.
I MEAN, DIFFERENT COLORS, DIFFERENT THINGS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING WITHOUT GOING THROUGH ALL THE HEADACHE, BUT YOU KNOW, LIKE THE, YOU KNOW, THE PARTS, THESE, THESE ARE CLOSE TO REALITY.
THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY.
DARK GRAY, LIGHT GRAY, YOU KNOW.
WE CAN, WE CAN PLAY AROUND WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO KIND OF DIFFERENTIATE IT.
THERE, THERE, THERE'S ALWAYS A FINE LINE WITH, WITH ANY MAP OF TOO MUCH INFORMATION AND IT, IT JUST BECOMES MUDDLED.
WE'LL SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO KIND OF MAKE IT EASY SO IT DOESN'T GET TOO COMPLEX.
WE COULD PROBABLY DO IT WITH SOME LINE WORK AND COLORS POSSIBLE.
I MEAN, THIS APPLIES THAT, THAT THERE'S SOMETHING GOING TO HAPPEN.
AND IT REALLY PROBABLY WON'T IN FOR QUITE A NUMBER OF YEARS, I'M JUST ASSUMING YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THE, THE EXTENSION OF HOPWOOD ROAD THAT WE TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE WHILE AGO, THE, THE OWNER OF THAT PROPERTY IS, LIKE I SAID, I WOULD NEVER SELL.
I'M GONNA LIVE HERE MY WHOLE LIFE.
SHE WAS, YOU KNOW, RELATIVELY YOUNG WOMAN, NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.
AND THEN SOMETHING CHANGED IN HER LIFE.
BUT THEN SUDDENLY THE PROPERTY WAS ON THE MARKET AND IT WAS DEVELOPED.
AND IF IT WASN'T FOR HAVING SOMETHING ON THE OFFICIAL MAP, WE WOULD'VE NEVER EVEN GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE WE'RE AT NOW, WE'RE EXTENDING THE ROAD.
IT WOULD'VE JUST BEEN A SMALL CUL-DE-SAC SERVING SEVEN HOUSES.
AND SO EVEN HAVING THIS EGYPT ROAD AND, AND 29 ON THE MAP, LOOK, WHOEVER LIVES THERE MAY NEVER SELL OR THEY MAY LEAVE THE HOUSE WITH THE KIDS AND THEY MAY STAY THERE FOREVER, WE DON'T KNOW.
BUT IF SOMETHING WERE TO CHANGE AND THE OPPORTUNITY WAS THERE, AT LEAST WE HAVE SOMETHING, A BACKUP TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GONNA START.
[00:35:01]
PERCENT.I MEAN, WE NEED TO KEEP IT HERE AS, AS A PROJECT.
THAT WE, WE WE'RE SURE WE NEED TO DEAL WITH IT HOWEVER WE CAN SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE, WHATEV, WHATEVER THAT IS.
I'M MOVING TOWARDS THE MIDDLE, I GUESS, OR THE LIGHT BLUE AREA.
WHICH INTERSECTION IS THAT AGAIN? IS THAT THE, THAT'S, UM, LONG FOR ROAD LONGFORD, UH, LONGFORD AND BLACKROCK LONGFORD ROAD.
SO LONGFORD AND THANKS, UH, MIKE.
SO LONGFORD AND BLACKROCK, UM, BEFORE I EVEN STARTED, I GUESS WITH MCMAHON'S NOW, BOWMAN, THERE WERE CONVERSATIONS WHEN KEN WAS HERE MM-HMM
WITH STAFF ABOUT THAT STEEP, UM, LONGFORD ROAD TIE IN TO BLACKROCK.
UM, I USED TO LIVE AT PROVIDENCE ABUSE.
I USED TO, I USED TO DRIVE THAT ALL THE TIME.
I WAS TERRIBLE TO COME OUT IN THE, IN THE COLD AND THE ICE AND SNOW, ET CETERA.
AND I KNOW WE'VE RECENTLY, UH, I THINK TWO YEARS AGO WORKED WITH PUBLIC WORKS, TOM AND HIS CREW, I GUESS, ON, UH, SIGN RESTRICTIONS FOR TRUCK TURNING MOVEMENTS AND STUFF, WHICH HAS BEEN A PROBLEM AT THAT INTERSECTION AS WELL.
SO GIVEN ALL THE INCIDENCES THAT HAVE OCCURRED WITH THOSE TRUCKS, THE CONVERSATIONS IN THE PAST ABOUT HOW, HOW STEEP THAT INTERSECTION IS, UM, OUR THOUGHT WOULD BE TO ADD, UM, THE IDEA TO, YOU KNOW, IMPROVE THE WIDTH OF LONG FUR TO BETTER ACCOMMODATE TRUCKS.
AND ALSO DENOTE THAT THERE, THERE HAD BEEN TALKS AND PLANS.
I THINK WE HAD DONE A CONCEPT PLAN AT SOME POINT TOO AND COST ESTIMATE YEARS BACK, BUT TO IDENTIFY THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, IMPROVE THAT INTERSECTION, BOTH FROM A WIDTH STANDPOINT FOR VEHICLE TURNS AND ALSO FROM A VERTICAL STANDPOINT TO IMPROVE THAT STEEP CONNECTION FROM LONGFORD.
UM, YOU KNOW, TO KIND OF SMOOTH THAT SMOOTH IN AND OUT, I GUESS A LITTLE BIT.
SO THAT, THAT'S THE IDEA WOULD, WOULD BE TO KIND OF DENOTE THAT AS A, A GOAL OF THE TOWNSHIP.
I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH IMPROVING THAT INTERSECTION.
I'M NOT SURE I WANT TO, UH, FAVOR TRUCKS, EVEN IF HOW WE WIDEN THAT WIDE ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE TRACTOR TRAILERS.
I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S, I DON'T THINK THAT'S FEASIBLE.
I I I DON'T THINK IT IS EITHER, BUT JUST TO HAVE SOME RELIEF FOR BUT SCHOOL BUSES, SCHOOL BUSES FOR NORMAL TRAFFIC FLOW.
YOUR DELIVERY VEHICLES OR SCHOOL BUSES.
AND THAT'S PART OF THE REASON THAT HOLLOW ROAD, IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST OFFICIAL MAP, THE CURRENT OFFICIAL MAP, IT SHOWS A REALIGNMENT OF HOLLOW ROAD.
AND THE IDEA THERE WAS THAT THAT'S WHERE THE TRUCKS WILL BE GOING TO.
THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S THE TRUCK ROUTE.
THE CURVES ARE NOT CURVY ENOUGH.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OFFICIAL ENGINEERING TERM IS FOR IT, BUT, BUT THE CURVES ARE MORE DESIGNED TO HAVE THAT ON THAT ROAD AS OPPOSED TO HAVING THEM ON HOLLOW ROAD.
I MEAN, LONGFORD ROAD, EXCUSE ME.
SO I SAID TRUCKS, I MEANT LIKE SCHOOL BUSES AND, AND THOSE VEHICLES THAT WOULD ABSOLUTELY, WOULD ALLOW ON THAT ROADWAY.
'CAUSE THERE ARE RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE IN IT.
UM, SO THAT'S EGYPT AND CIDER MILL ROAD.
UM, SO AS WE WERE TALKING AND GOING THROUGH THE EXERCISE WITH JEFF AND HAVING SOME DISCUSSIONS WITH CASEY, WE WERE REMINDED YEARS BACK OF, UH, ONE OF OUR STAFF MEETINGS, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT SOME INCIDENCES WITH THERE.
SO AS YOU COME OFF, AS YOU GET ONTO CIDER MILL ROAD OFF OF EGYPT, THERE'S A, THERE'S A SHARP S-CURVE, UM, THAT EXISTS TODAY.
UH, AND A FEW YEARS BACK, I RE I RECALL COORDINATING WITH STAFF AND THE POLICE CHIEF SERGEANT SOLORIO, AND, UM, IT WAS, UH, NOT FREEMAN.
UM, UH, I, I FORGET THE, UH, YEAH, THAT'S ALL RIGHT.
ANYWAY, BUT, SO THERE WERE SOME INCIDENCES WITH, UM, VEHICLES NOT BEING ABLE TO NAVIGATE THOSE TURNS AND, AND SKIDDING OFF THE ROAD SIMILAR, I GUESS WHAT WE WERE HAVING AT, UM, I, I GUESS IT'S A RENT HOUSE IN SOME OTHER AREAS.
SO THE IDEA WOULD BE TO SHOW MUCH LIKE WE DID WITH THE HOT, WITH THE HOPWOOD ROAD CURVE TO SHOW A DESIRE TO, UM, IMPROVE THAT SHARPES CURVE AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, REVISE THOSE GEOMETRICS TO PROVIDE BETTER TURNING THROUGH THAT AREA.
THAT'S WHAT THAT GOOD, THAT'S WHAT THAT CIDER MILL ROAD CIRCLE WAS, UH, TENDED TO SHOW.
AND I, WE WOULD SHOW THAT, I GUESS, A LITTLE BIT MORE CLEARLY ON A, ON THE MAP, YOU KNOW, SHOW WHERE THOSE CURVES WOULD BE.
I DIDN'T REALIZE WE'RE MISSING THE 4 22 LINES AND STUFF LIKE THAT ON HERE, SO IT'S NOT VERY CLEAR IN THERE.
AND SO THAT'LL, THAT'LL, THAT'LL SHOW UP BETTER ON THE NEXT ONE.
AND THEN MOVING DOWN TO, CAN I, UH, YEAH, THAT, THAT, UH, THE BRIDGE THAT'S THERE ON BLACKROCK ROAD, THAT'S NOT SHOWN HERE AS
[00:40:01]
HAPPENING YING, OR DOES IT NEED TO BE? I MEAN, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THE, THE, THE, THE ONE AT CROSSMAN'S.THAT'S BLACK BLACKROCK THAT'S PAID THAT PEN DOTS, THAT'S A PENDOT PROJECT THAT'S LINED UP.
I MEAN, FROM WHAT SERGEANT SOLORIO TOLD ME ABOUT A WEEK AND A HALF AGO, THAT'S QUEUED UP TO BE AUGUST.
I COULDN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS MAY OR AUGUST, BUT YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT.
SO FIND A DIFFERENT WAY AROUND FOR THE NEXT 18 MONTHS AFTER THAT
EITHER THAT OR EITHER THAT OR GREENTREE BACK TO BLACKROCK FIRE COMPANY, WHATEVER.
SO, AND THEN, SO THE TOP, THE ONE TOP RIGHT, I GUESS MIDDLE RIGHT, I GUESS RIGHT.
THE, SO WHERE THE PURPLE LINE AND THE DASH BLUE LINE ARE CROSSING, THAT'S WHERE SCI IS LOCATED.
SO, UM, ON THEIR MASTER PLAN, THERE HAD BEEN, WELL, IT'S SHOWN I GUESS THAT THERE WOULD BE A SOUTH REBA ROAD EXTENSION, UM, EXTENDING BEYOND, YOU KNOW, THAT LOCATION, THE CIDER MILL.
SO OUR THOUGHT WOULD BE TO MAYBE, WELL PERHAPS SHOW IT OR I, I, I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF QUESTIONABLE.
THIS ONE'S KIND OF QUESTIONABLE BECAUSE SCI HAS COME OUT IN THE LAST THREE TO FOUR MONTHS AND SAID, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE DOING SOUTH REBA ROAD OR REBA ROAD, THE REBA ROAD EXTENSION ANYMORE.
WE'RE NOT EXPANDING OUR CAMPUS ANYMORE.
THEY'RE HAPPY WITH THEIR CAMPUS AS IT IS.
THEY LOVE THEIR CAMPUS, BUT THEY DON'T, THEY'VE REALIZED THAT THEY DON'T, AND AGAIN, THIS IS MY INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THEY'VE SAID TO ME, THAT THEY DON'T SEE THE NEED TO HAVE MORE BUILDINGS THAN THEY CURRENTLY HAVE BASED ON THE WORK ENVIRONMENT.
THEY'RE MOSTLY BACK TO THE OFFICE, BUT GENERALLY THEY DON'T SEE THE NEED TO EXPAND AND TO BUILD THE OTHER THREE OR FOUR BUILDINGS THAT THEY HAD ORIGINALLY PLANNED, WHICH AT THAT POINT NECESSITATED THE NEED FOR CLOSING UPPER INDIAN HEAD ROAD AND BUILDING THE REBA ROAD EXTENSION.
SO WHAT WE'VE TOLD THEM IS, FINE, IT'S YOUR CAMPUS.
YOU, YOU BUILD WHAT YOU WANT TO BUILD.
WE CAN TAKE THE MASTER PLAN AS IT IS, BUT IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BUILD REBA ROAD, THEN YOU HAVE TO WIDEN AND FINISH THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS ON UPPER INDIAN HEAD ROAD PER THE ORDINANCE THAT WERE DEFERRED, DEFERRED IN THE, THE RESOLUTION APPROVING YOUR, UM, YOUR LAST BUILDING AND THE, AND THE PARKING.
SO I THINK THEY'RE CURRENTLY WORKING ON THAT.
SEI WE LOVE THEM, BUT THEY WORK AT A SNAIL SPACE.
SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GETTING THERE.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S THEIR GOAL.
I PUT IT ON HERE BECAUSE ANTHONY HAD IT ON THE PLAN.
I WAS GONNA TALK TO HIM ABOUT IT, BUT GENERALLY I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO SHOW THE IMPROVEMENTS IN HERE.
I THINK THIS IS ONE THAT CAN KIND OF COME OFF.
UM, YEAH, I'M FINE WITH THAT TOO, AND BASED ON, LET'S SEE WHAT SEI DOES, AND WHEN SEI SAYS THAT THEY WANT TO DO IT, YEAH.
IT'S REACT TO WHAT THEY'RE, UH, PROPOSING.
SO IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, THAT'S THAT I THINK THIS ONE WILL COME OFF.
UH, WOULD YOU GO BACK DOWN SURE.
TO THE BOTTOM ONE HERE? DID I MISS THAT ONE? THAT WAS THE, UM, SIDE THAT, THAT WAS THE EGYPT ROAD.
AND THEN, OH, THIS WAS, THIS IS ALONG, UH, ROUTE 29.
THIS THE CIRCLE, I GUESS THAT'S IN FRONT OF US HERE.
SO WITH HOPWOOD ROAD, UM, HOPWOOD IN 29, THEY'RE PROPOSING TO INCREASE THE SINGLE LANES AND PROVIDE THE MULTIPLE LANES IN BOTH DIRECTIONS.
UM, WE HAVE THE HIGH DEVELOPMENT MM-HMM
NOT HIGH TOP, UH, TO THE NORTH.
THAT'S PROPOSING TO DO THE MULTIPLE LANES ALONG THEIR FRONTAGE TO BRING THE, THE SINGLE LANE TO, TO THE MULTIPLE LANE SOUTHBOUND FROM COLLEGEVILLE INN.
SO THERE'S A GAP, ESSENTIALLY AT THE SOUTHERN LIMITS OF THE WIDENING FOR THE YERKES PROJECT, AND THINK IT'S A WEST TO WEST DRIVE, WHERE THE NORTHBOUND APPROACH OF 29 TAPER.
IT'S A SINGLE LANE, AND IT REMAINS A SINGLE LANE, ESSENTIALLY, TILL WE GET TO THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT YERKES IS GONNA BE DOING.
LIKE THERE ARE TWO NORTHBOUND LANES THAT THEY'RE GONNA BE PROVIDING ESSENTIALLY AT YERKES.
SO THERE'S A GAP BETWEEN WEST AND YERKES.
UM, WE HAD WORKED ON CONCEPT PLANS AND SOME PRELIMINARY COST ESTIMATES DUE TO THE DESIRE FROM THE BOARD.
I GUESS RECOGNIZING THAT THAT MISSING PIECE IS THERE.
UM, AND WITH THESE OTHER PROJECTS MOVING THROUGH THE PROCESS, UM, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, WE RECOGNIZE THAT THAT NEED SHOULD, SHOULD BE DONE.
IT'S BECOMING A, IT'S GONNA BE A, A GAP, I GUESS, AT SOME POINT.
SO THE IDEA THAT THIS IS SHOWING HERE WOULD BE
[00:45:01]
TO SHOW THE ADDITIONAL NORTHBOUND EXTENSION FROM WEST DRIVE CONNECTING TO YERKES, BASICALLY YERKES ROAD, UM, TO SHOW THAT ON THE OFFICIAL MAP.SO THAT'S WHAT THAT AREA IS, DENOTING.
I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S ALL OF THEM IN, YEAH.
MOVING ON TO THE RIGHT OF WAY MATH, RIGHT.
AND THE FUNCTIONAL CLASSIFICATION.
SO, UM, SO AT THE LAST MEETING WE WENT, WE WENT THROUGH AND WE HAD A GOOD DISCUSSION.
I THINK WE, WE DID THE WALKTHROUGH OF HOW IT'S UTILIZED IN OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT REVIEWS, WHICH SOUNDS LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE GOT SOME GOOD FEEDBACK FROM YOU ALL THAT THAT WAS HELPFUL TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT ALL WORKS AND HOW IT TRANSLATES TO OUR LETTERS AND ULTIMATELY THE PLANS.
UM, SO THE PREVIOUS, YEAH, AT THE PREVIOUS, UH, MEETING, WE HAD DISCUSSED, UM, FIVE CORRIDORS THAT WERE, WE WERE RECOMMENDING CLASSIFICATION CHANGES FOR, UM, SO WE HAD RIDGE PIKE, WE HAD SOUTH MENNONITE, OR WE HAD MENNONITE ROAD, CIDER MILL ROAD, BLACKROCK ROAD, EGYPT, AND ROUTE ONE 13.
UM, SO WE HAD AGREED, UM, AFTER SOME DISCUSSION AND DISCUSSION OF THE A DT AND WHAT WAS GOING ON AND OR PLANNED IN THOSE SURROUNDING AREAS, THAT, UH, WE WOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH MAKING THOSE CHANGES ON THE UPDATED, UH, FUNCTIONAL CLASSIFICATION, ULTIMATE RIGHTWAY MATH.
SO WE WENT AHEAD AND DID THAT.
UM, WE TALKED ABOUT HOW WE WERE GONNA CLEAN UP SOME OF THE LEGENDS, UH, TRY TO REDUCE AS MANY OF THOSE AS WE COULD, YOU KNOW, CLARIFY THE UN WE HAD SOME AREAS MARKED AS UNDEFINED IN THE PREVIOUS VERSION, WHICH ESSENTIALLY HAS GOTTEN TRANSLATED TO BE RESIDENTIAL ROADS.
THOSE WERE ESSENTIALLY KIND OF CAUGHT IN BETWEEN THE OLD MAP AND A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT THAT HAD OCCURRED BETWEEN THE OLD MAP AND THE CURRENT ONE.
SO WE LOOKED AROUND COORDINATED, UM, AND ESSENTIALLY WE THINK WE HAVE CAPTURED ALL THE GAPS, I GUESS FROM THE 2008, UH, RIGHT AWAY MAP.
I THINK IT WAS MAYBE 14 WITH SOME UPDATES.
AND THEN ESSENTIALLY CLASSIFIED ALL THOSE AS RESIDENTIAL RECLASSIFIED, THE, THE FOUR CARTER'S, UM, YOU KNOW, TO THE UPGRADED CLASSIFICATIONS.
UM, WE WERE ABLE TO, WE GOT RID OF SOME OF THE NOTES AND BASICALLY WE, WE WERE LEFT WITH TWO, THE TWO NOTES THAT YOU SEE AT THE TOP RIGHT, WHICH KIND OF JUST TALK ABOUT THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THE CLASSIFICATIONS, WHICH AS YOU TITLE THE LEGEND SHOWS YOU THE TYPE OF ROADWAY AND THE REQUIRED RIGHT OF WAY.
THAT'S, UM, THAT'S THE, THE DEVELOPERS AND THAT WE PLAN FOR ALONG THOSE RELATED AREAS.
AND THEN THERE'S A FEW SUBCATEGORIES UNDER THE ARTERIAL.
SO THE STANDARD ARTERIAL'S A HUNDRED FOOT RIGHT AWAY, YOU SEE THERE'S TWO SUBCATEGORIES THERE.
WE LOOKED, WE LOOKED AT 'EM LAST TIME, WE CLEANED THEM UP A LITTLE BIT.
UM, THERE'S A FEW SUPPLEMENTAL AREAS OF 140 FEET, 120 FEET.
UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK WITH THE WAY WE'VE SCALED THE MAP AND KIND OF CLEANED UP THE BORDERS AND STUFF, I, I THINK THOSE AREAS COME ACROSS A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN THEY MAY HAVE BEFORE.
UM, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ARTERIAL, THE 140 IS AROUND, UH, IS ALONG ROUTE 29, BETWEEN 4 22 OR JUST TO THE NORTH OF 4 22 DOWN TO, UH, IS IT HASSAN ROAD? MM-HMM
SO, OR JUST NORTH OF HASSAN ROAD.
SO WE, WE TRIED TO ESSENTIALLY CAPTURE THESE CLASSIFICATIONS, THESE SUPPLEMENTAL RIGHT OF WAY AREAS WITH THICKER LINES AND CLEARER, UM, COLOR CODING VERSUS ADDING THEM IN TEXT FORMAT LIKE IT WAS IN THE PREVIOUS MAP.
SO WE TRIED TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS EASIER TO UNDERSTAND, I GUESS.
HOPEFULLY THAT CONVEYED THAT WAY.
THAT'S WHERE WE WERE TRYING TO, THAT'S WHERE WE WERE GOING FOR THE LAST ONE WE FELT WAS A LITTLE BIT THE PREVIOUS DRAFT.
IT WAS A LITTLE BIT, IT WAS GETTING BETTER, BUT IT WAS STILL A LITTLE FUNNY ON THE EYES, I GUESS.
UM, SO WE THINK THIS ONE CLEARED IT UP.
WE HAVE THE UPPER PROVIDENCE LOGO THAT JEFF PROVIDED, SO THAT'S PROVIDED THE MAP TITLE.
AND CURRENTLY WE HAVE FEBRUARY, 2025, BUT THAT CAN, YOU KNOW, CHANGE WHENEVER WE GET THERE.
UM, NOW THERE IS THERE TO, TO ADOPT BOTH OF THESE MAPS, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A PROCESS WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH IN TERMS OF MAKING THE RECOMMENDATION.
HA, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S SIMILAR TO ADOPTING A ZONING ORDINANCE, SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO PLOT IT OUT AND SEND IT OFF TO THE COUNTY FOR THEM TO REVIEW AND HAVE A HEARING AND THINGS LIKE THAT AT, AT THE BOARD.
SO WE'RE GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE WE HOPE MAYBE AT THE NEXT MEETING OR MAYBE
[00:50:01]
IT'S DEPENDING THAT WE CAN GET A RECOMMENDATION FROM YOU AND WE CAN START THAT PROCESS.UM, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT READY NOW.
I, I KNOW MY OFFICIAL MAP IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO READY, BUT IT SHOULD BE BY, BY THE MIDDLE OF MARCH.
AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET TO THE POINT WHERE YOU'RE COMFORTABLE SAYING, MAKE THESE COUPLE CHANGES, BRING IT BACK TO US FOR A FINAL REVIEW, AND THEN WE'LL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD.
I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT, YOU KNOW, LET'S MOVE FORWARD.
I HAD, I HAD ZACH LOOK INTO, BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE EXACT PROCESS TO ADOPT IT WAS.
I KNOW WHAT IT IS FOR A ZONING MAP, IT'S A FULL HEARING AND ALL OTHER STUFF FOR THE OFFICIAL MAP, IT TENDS, IT'S GENERALLY THE SAME.
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE LESS FOR THE, FOR THE RIGHT OF WAY MAP, BUT AT THAT POINT WE'RE JUST GONNA PUT THEM BOTH IN THE PROCESS TOGETHER.
YEAH, IT LOOKS, LOOKS A LOT BETTER.
WAS THAT IT? I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOUR ENDING THERE.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
HAVE FOR TONIGHT IS THE, UH, WHAT WE'RE DOING NEXT MONTH, MARCH 5TH MEETING.IT LOOKS LIKE WE'LL HAVE THE MILLENNIAL ESTATES.
IT'S A FOUR LOT SUBDIVISION YOU WERE GIVEN A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.
UM, THAT SHOULD BE ON THAT AGENDA FOR TENTATIVE PLAN REVIEW.
THEN 5 92 MENNONITE ROAD, WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING I'VE CIRCULATED AT THIS POINT.
UM, IT'S A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT FOR THE CORON OF, WELL, IT'S FOR ALL OF ENTERTAINMENT.
THEY WROTE, THEIR ATTORNEYS WROTE A SECTION FOR THE TOWNSHIP TO ALLOW FOR MORE ENTERTAINMENT USES IN AGRICULTURAL, IT'S A LOT LIKE WHAT VARNER ALREADY DOES, NOT VARNER A RAIDERS ALREADY DOES.
UM, THEY DIDN'T WRITE IT, SOMEONE ELSE WROTE IT FOR A DIFFERENT PROPERTY, BUT IT APPLIES THAT SORT OF THING TO WHAT, 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW, AS MUCH AS I LOVE THER PROPERTY, IT'S KIND OF THE WILD WEST.
THEY KIND OF DO WHATEVER THEY WANT TO DO THERE, AND I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA LIMIT THEM BY ANY STRETCH.
I THINK THEY'RE A GREAT BUSINESS, BUT IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO HAVE AT LEAST SOME PARAMETERS SO WE UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING BEFORE WE GET CAUGHT UP IN SAYING, NO, NO, YOU JUST DEFINITELY CAN'T DO THAT.
UM, THEN 200, 400 CAMPUS DRIVE IS, UM, I'VE BEEN APPROACHED BY AN, A POTENTIAL OWNER OF THAT PROPERTY.
THEY WANT TO MOVE INTO THOSE TWO BUILDINGS, BUT THEY WANT TO DO MEDICAL MANUFACTURING AS WELL AS HAVE MEDICAL, HAVE, HAVE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES THERE.
THE CURRENT ZONING ONLY ALLOWS FOR, UM, OFFICE USE IN IO TWO AND INTERCHANGE OFFICE TWO IS ONLY OFFICE USES.
THERE'S SOME SUPPORT COFFEE SHOP, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT YOU COULD PUT IN YOUR FIRST FLOOR OF A, OF AN OFFICE BUILDING.
UM, SO WE NEED TO AMEND THE ORDINANCE TO ALLOW THEM TO GO IN THERE AND, AND SO FAR IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S, IT'S A FAIRLY SIMPLE CHANGE.
UM, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT'S GONNA BE THAT COMPLICATED, BUT WE'LL HAVE THEM IN ON, ON MARCH 5TH TOO, TO START TALKING ABOUT THAT.
AND THEN 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE WE HAD THEM IN LAST YEAR TO TALK ABOUT CHANGING THAT BUILDING FROM, OR TAKING THAT BUILDING COMPLETELY DOWN AND PUTTING UP TOWNHOUSES THERE.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEY'RE READY TO PUT THAT APPLICATION IN.
WE WANNA HAVE THEM AT THIS MEETING SO THAT YOU CAN GET A SENSE OF WHAT THE, THE, THE APPLICATIONS ARE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT, THAT, THAT NIGHT, JUST SORT OF GET A SENSE OF IT.
THEY'LL GO TO THE BOARD ON APRIL OR MARCH 17TH TO SET A HEARING DATE.
THEN ASSUMING THEY GET A HEARING DATE, THEY'LL COME BACK TO YOU AT ONE OF YOUR APRIL MEETINGS AND THEN YOU'LL MAKE YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD TO APPROVE THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT, OR NOT APPROVE THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT OR ANY CHANGES YOU MAY SEE.
WHEN WE'RE WITH ANY ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT, WE HAVE A 30 DAY WINDOW WHERE WE CAN'T REALLY TOUCH THE ORDINANCE.
SO THAT'S SORT OF BETWEEN THE APRIL 17TH OR THE MARCH 17TH AND THE APRIL 21ST MEETING.
UM, SO IF WE HAVE SUGGESTIONS AND CHANGES, THAT ALLOWS US TO DO IT FROM MARCH 5TH TO THE, TO THE BOARD MEETING TO SORT OF, IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU SEE IN THERE, YOU'RE LIKE, LOOK, I REALLY DON'T WANT YOU TO SAY THIS.
I WANT YOU TO SAY IT A DIFFERENT WAY.
WHATEVER LANGUAGE THAT MIGHT BE, THAT AFFORDS US THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE IT BEFORE WE GET LOCKED INTO THE COUNTY.
SO, SO IF I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS ON THE FIFTH, THIS IS JUST AN INFORMATION MEETING, RIGHT.
THEY'RE THEN GONNA GO TO THE BOARD, MAKE PRESENT, AND AT THAT MEETING, PRESENTATION, THE SAME PRESENTATION, AND THEN THE BOARD.
BUT, WE'LL, WE WILL SET A HEARING DATE.
THEY WILL, THEY WILL AUTHORIZE ME TO ADVERTISE THE HEARING DATES.
NOW IS, DO WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY BEFORE THAT HEARING DATE TO REVIEW THE PLANS TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION? YES.
THAT WILL BE THE APRIL 2ND MEETING.
THEY WILL COME BACK TO YOU THE APRIL 2ND AND LIKE 5 92 MENNONITE ROAD.
THEY'RE ASKING FOR A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT, A CONDITIONAL USE, AND A TENTATIVE PLAN APPROVAL.
ONE THOU OR 200, 400 CAMPUS DRIVE IS JUST LOOKING FOR A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT AND 1000 CAMPUS DRIVERS JUST LOOKING FOR A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT.
SO WITH THE 5 92 MENNONITE ROAD, WE WON'T REVIEW IT FOR THE TENTATIVE AND CONDITIONAL USE UNTIL THE APRIL 2ND.
THAT'S WHEN WE'LL PROVIDE THOSE REVIEWS.
[00:55:01]
WHEN WE'LL DISCUSS THOSE AND YOU CAN MAKE YOUR RECOMMENDATION ON ALL THREE OF THOSE AT THAT TIME.AND THEN THE ZONING, THE TWO OTHER ZONING TEXT AMENDMENTS.
JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD, UNDERSTOOD THE SEQUENCE.
IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A BIZARRE SEQUENCE, BUT IT IS.
BUT I WILL GUIDE YOU THROUGH IT AND, AND WE WILL WE'LL, OKAY.
GET YOU OUT THERE AND GET YOU ALL THE INFORMATION.
IT PROBABLY TOOK ME A GOOD THREE HOURS.
I'M LIKE, OKAY, IT, IT'S THIS DATE AND THAT DATE.
AND THIS THI BECAUSE I HAVE TO BALANCE IT OUT WITH, I CAN'T ADVERTISE MORE THAN 30 DAYS BEFOREHAND, BUT I HAVE TO ADVERTISE WITHIN 30 DAYS, BUT NOT MORE THAN A, BUT NOT, NOT LESS THAN A WEEK BEFORE.
SO YOU HAVE TO SCHEDULE THAT ALL OUT WITH MEETINGS AND WITH EVERYTHING ELSE.
AND IT'S, IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT YOU JUST UNDERSTAND THIS SHOULD WORK.
AND RIGHT NOW THE BOARD EXPRESSED TO ME LAST NIGHT THAT THEY THINK THEY WANNA HAVE A SPECIAL NIGHT FOR THESE THREE ZONING TAX AMENDMENTS.
IT WOULD STILL BE AFTER THEIR APRIL 21ST MEETING.
BUT THAT'S SOMETHING I NEED TO COORDINATE WITH STAFF AND ALL OF THAT.
MR. PETERS MIGHT TO GET TO GET OUT FOR ANOTHER NIGHT MEETING
SO, AND THEN THE, THE EAC WILL BE MEETING ON MARCH 19TH, SO.
AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR TONIGHT.
UM, ANYTHING FROM THE AUDIENCE COME UP THERE? CAN I JUST TALK FROM HERE?
I, UM, WHEN IT COMES TO A RADIO, KRISTEN TROUTMAN 1320 BLACKROCK ROAD, UM, I WOULD SUGGEST MAYBE TALKING TO THE COUNTY PRESERVATION BOARD BECAUSE THAT IS AN AG PRESERVATION PROPERTY, SO, RIGHT.
I MEAN, TO BE DOING ZONING TAX AMENDMENTS OR TRYING TO CHANGE THINGS WITHOUT LIKE HELPING TO AG BECAUSE THAT'S THE REASON FOR THAT WAS TO KEEP IT AS AN AGRICULTURAL PRESERVATION PROPERTY.
AND, AND THAT IS PART OF THE BALANCING.
AND WE HAVE HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH THE COUNTY ON, 'CAUSE THE 5 92, THEY'VE, IT'S TAKEN THEM A YEAR AND A HALF TO GET TO THIS POINT.
SO WE'VE HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH THAT.
I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO SIT DOWN AND LOOK AT IT AND SEE, AND I HAVE TALKED TO THE RAIDERS ABOUT IT.
WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING ON THEIR PROPERTY AND HOW WE CAN MANAGE THAT PROCESS AND PARTNER WITH THEM AND ALL THAT.
SO WE ARE WORKING WITH THEM A LITTLE BIT ON IT AND I, I WILL REACH OUT TO THE COUNTY TO SEE IF THEY WANNA LOOK.
I WAS JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE I KNOW SOMETIMES WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR FALSE STUFF OR WHATEVER THEY'VE HAD LIKE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COMPANY IS, BUT LIKE A MICRO BREWERY TRUCK COME IN THERE.
I MEAN, DO THEY, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THEY HAVE TO GET PERMITS THROUGH YOU GUYS FOR? OR CAN YOU JUST NO, AND THAT'S PART OF THE QUESTION.
IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT, THERE'S A GRAY AREA 'CAUSE IT'S AN AGRICULTURE RIGHT NOW THEY'RE ALLOWED TO DO AGRICULTURAL USES AND THERE'S REALLY NO DEFINITION OF WHAT AGRICULTURAL USES ARE.
NO, THEY DON'T GROW THE HOPS
BUT, YOU KNOW, AND, AND SO IT, IT, YES, IT'S, LOOK, WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANY BUSINESS AWAY FROM THEM.
WE WANT THEM TO BE SUCCESSFUL.
WE WANT ALL OF OUR AG PRESERVATION, ALL OF OUR AG PRESERVATION TO BE ABLE TO USE THE PROPERTY TO BE REALISTIC ABOUT IT.
NOBODY'S GONNA BE FARMING THE PROPERTIES ANYMORE AS TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE YOU KNOW THAT BETTER THAN ALL OF US.
WELL, NO, I, JUST THINKING BACK, LIKE WHEN THE TOWNSHIP HAS COMMUNITY DAY AND THAT KIND OF STUFF THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS ALWAYS HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE OFFICIAL PROCESS.
WELL HAVE YOUR BEER GARDEN AND THAT'S BECAUSE, UM, BY OUR REGULATIONS, BY OUR OWN REGULATIONS, WE CAN'T HAVE BEER AND ALCOHOL ON SITE AND OUR INSURANCE.
SO WE HAVE TO GET SPECIAL INSURANCE JUST FOR THAT EVENT.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO DO THAT.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO THROUGH THEIR INSURANCE CARRIER.
UM, WE DON'T REALLY GO TO THEM AND SAY, YOU CAN'T DO THIS USE.
AT LEAST WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THAT POINT YET TO WHERE I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN SOME OTHER TOWNSHIPS TO WHERE IT GETS, SO IT SNOWBALLS SO MUCH THAT THAT'S WHEN YOU START TO GO, OH, WAIT A MINUTE.
THAT'S NOT REALLY FOOD TRUCKS WITH A FOOD HANDLE LICENSE.
BUT I'M LIKE, YOU DON'T WANNA MAKE A THOUSAND POUNDS FOR PEOPLE SICK BECAUSE IT'S A ROACH COACH.
WELL, AND, AND, AND LIKE WE DON'T WANT IT TO BECOME SHADY MAPLE.
OR WHAT'S THE ONE IN BUCKS COUNTY? THAT'S A HUGE, I HAVE NO IDEA THERE.
I KNOW IT'S ALL GONNA DRIVE US CRAZY.
WERE YOU BASICALLY, IT'S A CHRISTMAS THING AND YOU DRIVE THROUGH, BUT THEY CALL IT A FARM AND THAT WE DON'T WANNA GET TO THAT LEVEL, BUT WE WANNA BE ABLE TO FOSTER THEM, AT LEAST THE TWO THAT ARE IN MY MIND ABOUT THIS ORDINANCE.
AND MAYBE THE THIRD THAT'S UP ON WHARTMAN ROAD, THAT'S ALSO PRESERVATION TO ALLOW THEM TO AT LEAST KEEP THE BUS, KEEP A, SOME SORT OF FINANCIAL INCOME GETTING OUTTA HAND, BUT NOT GETTING OUTTA HAND TO WHERE YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, HAVING ROCK CONCERTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UH, IF THERE'S NOTHING ELSE, I GUESS WE CAN CLOSE THE MEETING.
UM, I'LL TAKE A MO A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
I'LL MOTION TO ADJOURN THE MEETING.
I'LL SECOND THE MOTION TO ADJOURN.
IT'S BEEN MADE AND SECONDED TO, UH, ADJOURN THE MEETING.
[01:00:01]
FIND THAT LOUD ENOUGH TO.