[00:00:03]
[CALL TO ORDER / Motion to Approve February 5, 2025 Agenda]
WE'LL TAKE, UH, THE MINUTES FROM FEBRUARY 5TH, AND IF YOU HAD A CHANCE TO READ THEM, UH, PLEASE READ THEM.AND, UH, ACTUALLY TOM, WE NEED THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE FEBRUARY 5TH AGENDA.
I TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.
I MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.
UH, NOW WE'LL GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT.
ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON A NON AGENDA ITEMS? NO.
EVERYBODY SHAKING THEIR HEADS, SO THAT MAKES NO.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
ALL RIGHT.SO WE'LL GET ON TO THE, UH, MINUTE MEETINGS FROM FIFTH JANUARY 15TH.
UH, AGAIN, IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THEM YET, THEY'RE THE PAGE TWO OF YOUR, PAGE THREE, I GUESS, OF YOUR, UH, UH, PACKET IN FRONT OF YOU.
AND, UH, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, ERRORS, UH, CLARIFICATIONS, IT'S THE TIME.
IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THOSE.
I'LL MOTION TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE JANUARY 15TH, 2025 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES.
I'VE GOT A, UH, MOTION TO APPROVE.
AND WE, UH, BRIEFING ON THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS LAND DEVELOPMENT ACTION.
YEAH, I'M, I'M GONNA TRY TO PUT THIS IN THERE JUST TO KEEP YOU IN THE LOOP ON WHAT HAPPENS AT BOARD, AT SUPERVISORS MEETINGS WHEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY ACT ON WHAT YOU'VE ACTED ON.
UM, AT THEIR LAST MEETING, THEY APPROVED THE, THE ALEXANDER MINOR SUBDIVISION.
THAT'S, THAT WAS A PRETTY SIMPLE ONE.
AND THEN THEY'VE, THEY ALSO APPROVED THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN FOR HIGH, THE, THE APARTMENTS ON 29 THAT YOU ALSO RECOMMENDED APPROVAL ON.
UM, SO THEY WILL BE COMING BACK EVENTUALLY.
WE'LL SEE HOW LONG THEY TAKE TO MAKE THEIR PULMONARY PLAN.
BUT THEY GENERALLY HAD THE SAME CONCERNS YOU DID WITH SOME TRAFFIC AND, YOU KNOW, IMPACTS, UM, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE, THE, UM, STORM WATER AND, AND WETLANDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BEHIND IT.
SO THEY, UH, THAT WAS WHAT HAPPENED IN DECEMBER.
SO KEVIN, YOU WEREN'T HERE FOR THAT ONE.
UM, BUT, SO THAT ONE'S MOVED ON.
UM, THEY RIGHT NOW PRETTY LIGHT, SO THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ACT ON, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY DID AT THEIR LAST MEETING.
IT IS A GOOD TIME TO ASK THAT.
WHAT'S GOING ON WITH, UM, UH, THE DEVELOPMENT ON, UM, UM, LEWIS ROAD AND, UH, UH, VAUGHN? I NOTICED THEY DID A LITTLE WORK THERE.
THEY HAVEN'T COME BACK FOR APPROVAL, RIGHT? WE, NO, NO.
THEY, THEY'VE GOTTEN ALL OF THEIR APPROVALS.
THAT WAS JUST, THAT WAS REALLY JUST A, A TITLE TRANSFER OR, UH, YOU KNOW, RIGHTS TRANSFER PURCHASE.
SO THEY HAVE ALL OF THEIR FINAL LAND DEVELOPMENT.
THEY, THEY WENT THROUGH HERE, THEY GOT EVERYTHING CLEANED UP WITH ALL THE OUTSIDE AGENCIES.
SO THEY'RE READY TO GO FOR CONSTRUCTION.
WELL, IT JUST LOOK, THE SIGN SAYS SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.
I DUNNO IF YOU NOTICED THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT.
OH, THAT'S A LITTLE MISLEADING.
SO THAT'S WHY I WAS WONDERING IF THEY HAD MADE CHANGES.
NO, IT IS STILL 26 SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED HOMES.
IT DOESN'T SAY THAT ON THE SIGN, SO.
THAT'S ONE REASON I WAS QUESTIONING WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT.
NO, NOTHING'S CHANGED FROM THE LAST TIME YOU RECOMMENDED APPROVAL ON THE FINAL PLAN.
SO THEY'RE, UH, THEY'RE, AS FOR, ARE THEY INDICATED THEY'RE MOVING FORWARD? HAS THERE BEEN ANY INDICATION OF THAT? YEAH, YEAH.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE STARTING CONSTRUCTION.
THEY, THEY RECORDED PLANS LAST WEEK, SO THAT WAS SORT OF THEIR LAST ADMINISTRATIVE HURDLE FROM MY END.
AND NOW THEY'LL START CONSTRUCTION.
I THINK THEY'VE HAD A PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETING.
JEN, DO YOU REMEMBER IF MIKE HAD ONE? YES, I BELIEVE.
SO THEY'VE HAD THEIR PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETING.
THEY JUST, THEY'RE PROBABLY WAITING FOR SOME WEATHER AND, AND LINING OTHER DUCKS UP TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING'S OKAY.
THEY'RE PUTTING THE SOAP FENCE IN AND THAT KINDA STUFF.
THEY PUT THE BARRIER UP AND AFTER THE YEAH, GROUNDWATER, BUT I, WHAT THREW ME OFF AS A SIGN THEY PUT UP, YOU KNOW, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS, OH, I AGREE.
I DIDN'T, I NOTICED THEY PUT A NEW SIGN UP, BUT I DIDN'T READ IT FOR GREAT DETAIL.
WELL, IT ALSO SAYS COMING, UH, SUMMER OF 40, UH, 24, SO.
SO, UM, SO, UH, WELL, THERE'S NO ACCOUNTING FOR ACCURACY.
IT'S RECEIVED MAYBE A SIGN THEY TOOK FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.
I'M SURE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID.
SO, YEAH, BECAUSE THIS SAYS SUMMER 24.
SOMEONE DID EMAIL ME AND THEY, THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE GONNA BE DONE BY THE SUMMER, AND I SAID THAT THAT WAS A PRETTY AGGRESSIVE CONSTRUCTION SCHEDULE, BUT I'M NOT IN CONSTRUCTION, SO I, YOU KNOW, YEAH, I THINK IT'S PRETTY AGGRESSIVE TOO, SO, OKAY.
ONE THING I THINK ABOUT WHEN I GO BY THERE IS YOU NOTICE THE ANTENNA IN THE BACK CORNER OF THAT PROPERTY.
DO WE KNOW WHAT THAT IS BY ANY CHANCE? I THINK IT'S AN OLD HAM RADIO ANTENNA.
I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S FROM THIS PROPERTY OR IF IT'S FROM THE, UM, THE FARMHOUSE PROPERTY THAT'S BEHIND IT.
SO I DON'T THINK THIS WILL HAVE ANY EFFECT ON IT.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A LOT LOWER, SO YEAH, IT SHOULD BE FINE.
I'M NOT EVEN SURE IT'S IN USE ANYMORE.
BUT I CAN, I CAN TALK TO THE DEVELOPER
[00:05:01]
ABOUT IT.THE CONSTRUCTION SITE FOREMAN, SEE WHOSE IT IS.
THERE'S, THERE WAS ANOTHER ITEM, UH, FOR THE LAST MIN, UH, MINUTE MEETING MINUTES THAT SAID YOU'RE GONNA TALK TO THE SUPERVISORS ABOUT OPEN SPACE.
I THINK WE SCHEDULED THAT FOR THE MARCH MEETING.
YEAH, WE WERE GONNA, YOU'RE OUT OF TOWN FOR THE MAIN, FOR THE FEBRUARY MEETING? NO, I'M OUT OF TOWN FOR THE FIFTH.
IS THAT, I'M SORRY, WHAT IS IT? IT WOULD BE THE, YEAH, IT'S THE 5TH OF MARCH.
NO, THAT, THAT, THE, THE, OH, I'M, I'M OUT OF TOWN IN THE 19TH.
I THINK YOU'RE OUTTA TOWN FOR ALL OF FEBRUARY.
SO, AND THE FIFTH, UM, WELL, THE NEXT MEETING AFTER FEBRUARY IS MARCH 17TH ST.
THAT'S A MONDAY, RIGHT? THAT'S THE BOARD MEETING.
YOUR CONVERSATION WITH THE BOARD.
'CAUSE YOU'RE OUT OF TOWN ON THE, SO ON THE 17TH.
SO YOU DID GET THAT FILE? I, I, YEAH.
I, I MENTIONED IT TO A COUPLE SUPERVISORS AND I MENTIONED IT TO TIM ERMAN.
AND WE WILL GET YOU ON THAT AGENDA.
SO IT'S THE 17TH OF, OF MARCH.
UM, SO NOW WE'RE GOING ON TO THE OFFICIAL MAP REVIEW OF THE CURRENT MAP, RIGHT.
OFFICIAL MAP REVIEW OF THE CURRENT MAP.
SO WHAT I SENT YOU IN YOUR PACKET WAS JUST A BLANK COPY OR THE ORIGINAL COPY OF THE 2000.
SO OBVIOUSLY IT'S, IT'S QUITE DATED.
UM, LET ME STEP BACK AND SAY WHAT AN OFFICIAL MAP IS.
AN OFFICIAL MAP BY MUNICIPALITY'S PLANNING CODE DEFINITION IS A MAP THAT SHOWS THE INTENTIONS OF THE TOWNSHIP, WHETHER THAT'S INTENTIONS TO BUY OPEN SPACE, TO REALIGN ROADS, TO CREATE TRAILS, ANY OF IT.
I MEAN, YOU, YOU SORT OF CAPSULIZE EVERYTHING THAT THE TOWNSHIP'S POLICIES WANT TO DO MOVING FORWARD INTO A MAP SO THAT WHEN DEVELOPMENT DOES COME OR WHEN THINGS CHANGE, YOU CAN SEE WHAT THE TOWNSHIP'S POLICY IS FOR THAT PROPERTY, FOR THAT ROADWAY, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO WHAT YOU CAN SEE ON THE MAPS THAT I HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU, WHAT'S NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO READ ON THE SCREEN
UM, IF YOU LOOK AT, LIKE, LET'S START AT THE TOP SECTION OF THE TOWNSHIP, SORT OF UP AT THE, THE NECK UP THERE.
YOU CAN SEE THAT THE TOWNSHIP HAS, WE, WE'VE STARTED REALIGNING THE ROAD.
WE'VE PUT THE ROAD IN, THAT'S RIGHT HERE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER WITH THE SHOPPING CENTER WITH LIDLE.
THE ROAD GOES TO THE BACK OF LIDLE, RIGHT? WE ARE STILL LOOKING TO CONNECT IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH SO THAT THERE'S SORT OF A, A RIDGE PIKE RELIEF ROUTE BEHIND, SORT OF OFF OF RIDGE PIKE.
UM, IF THAT'S SOMETHING IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THE BOARD WANTS TO CARRY FORWARD, THAT CAN BE ON THE OFFICIAL MAP.
UM, THESE ORANGE PIECES HERE WERE, WERE RECOMMENDED FOR TOWNSHIP ACQUISITION.
THE TOWNSHIP HAS ACQUIRED THIS PIECE HERE.
THIS PIECE HERE IS PART OF THE RI THE RIDGEWOOD DEVELOPMENT.
SO WE, WE DIDN'T ACQUIRE THAT ONE, BUT THERE IS OPEN SPACE THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH THAT DEVELOPMENT AND SOME OTHER THINGS.
UM, WE'VE ALSO ACQUIRED THE PARCELS DOWN HERE THAT, THAT ARE SHOWN FOR, UM, FOR ACQUISITION FOR TOWNSHIP ACQUISITION AT THE, AT IN 2008.
SINCE 2008, WE HAVE ACQUIRED THOSE, UM, MOVING SORT OF DOWNTOWN SHIP LINE TO THE SORT OF SOUTHWESTERN PART OF THE TOWNSHIP.
AND I'LL GET TO WHAT THESE GREEN PARTS HERE ARE IN A LITTLE BIT.
THAT'S ANOTHER, THAT'S SORT OF THE, THE LAST TOPIC.
UM, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S ONE PARCEL THAT'S IN DEVELOPMENT.
THIS IS THE IROQUOIS DRIVE THREE LOT SUBDIVISION.
UM, A COUPLE PARCELS OF THE TOWNSHIP OWNS.
SO THERE WASN'T MUCH ON THE MAP FOR THIS AREA.
THE ORANGE CIRCLES ARE THE AREAS THAT WERE RECOMMENDED FOR OPEN SPACE ACQUISITION WITHOUT IDENTIFYING SPECIFIC PARCELS.
UM, AND WE WILL GET BACK TO THAT TOWARDS THE END OF THE END OF THE CONVERSATION.
UM, MOVING DOWN TO SORT OF THE, THE MONTCLAIR AREA, AGAIN, THERE'S, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S PARCELS UP BY THE TOWNSHIP BUILDING THAT WE'VE ACQUIRED.
UM, EVEN THIS PARCEL NEXT TO THE L-SHAPED, THE BACKWARDS L-SHAPED ORANGE PARCEL, THE TOWNSHIP HAS THAT AS WELL.
THE MAP WILL ALSO, WHEN THE NEXT ITERATION OF THE MAP WILL SHOW ALL OF THE TOWNSHIP PARCELS AND EVERYTHING WE OWN.
I WANTED TO SORT OF LEAVE THEM OFF THE NEWER ACQUISITIONS WE HAVE, LEAVE THEM OFF SO IT DIDN'T SORT OF MUDDLE THE MATTER.
UM, SOME OTHER PIECES OF THE TOWNSHIP HAS ACQUIRED THROUGH HERE.
YOU CAN SEE IT'S, I, I REALIZE ON THE SCREEN IT'S HARD TO SEE AND PROBABLY EASIER TO SEE ON THE MAP, BUT THERE'S GREEN DOTS OR BLUE
[00:10:01]
DOTS UP IN THIS AREA THAT I PUT ON THOSE PARCELS RIGHT BY THE TOWNSHIP BUILDING.THOSE ARE ALSO PARCELS WE'VE ACQUIRED.
UM, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE THREE OF THE FIVE IDENTIFIED.
WE DON'T HAVE MR. TROUTMAN YET.
RIGHT? IF I, OKAY, SO HOW MUCH YOU WANT, HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT? YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT.
SO, BUT WE DO HAVE TWO PIECES NEXT TO NEXT TO THAT.
UM, AND THEN ACTUALLY I THINK THAT FIRST BLUE.IS WRONG.
THE, THE BLUE DOT SHOULD BE EMPTY IN THE FIRST PIECE AND BE THE NEXT TWO PARCELS.
THE CHURCH OWNS THE, THE PARCEL SECOND TO THE LEFT, AND THEN WE OWN THE VERY LEFT PARCEL.
UM, SO WE'VE SORT OF EXPANDED THE PARK AS, AS WE'RE INTENDING TO DO BETWEEN US AND THE CHURCH.
WE SORT OF BLOCKED EACH OTHER IN 'CAUSE THE CHURCH WAS TRYING TO DO THE SAME THING GOING THE OTHER WAY.
SO WE KIND OF BLOCKED EACH OTHER IN.
UM, AND YOU CAN SEE DOWN HERE, UM, THIS ROAD IMPROVEMENT, THIS THIS LOVER'S LANE THAT'S THE LOVER'S LANE SUBDIVISION THAT WE'RE STILL DISCUSSING.
THAT'S STILL SORT OF IN PROCESS.
SO THAT'S SORT OF WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS MAP IS A DEVELOPMENT COMES IN FOR A PARCEL AND WE SHOW THEM THE OFFICIAL MAP AND SAY, WELL WE'VE, WE WANT THIS ROAD TO GO THROUGH LIKE THAT.
AND THEN THEY HAVE TO DESIGN AROUND THAT.
UM, BUT THIS, BUT THIS DOESN'T SHOW, UM, UM, COLLEGEVILLE ROAD PENDOT ACTIVITY.
WHICH DO YOU MEAN? WELL ON LOVE'S LANE ISN'T, AREN'T THEY, UH, ISN'T THERE SOME PENDO ACTIVITY TO WIDEN? I THINK THERE WILL BE, HAVE TO BE SOME WIDENING IN THERE AS PART OF THAT LAND DEVELOPMENT, RIGHT.
NO, THIS, THIS IS MORE OF LIKE A TOWNSHIP WISHLIST OF WHAT WE WANT TO CHANGE EVENTUALLY.
SO IF PENDOT COMES IN AND REQUIRES SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY, THAT'S A DISCUSSION WHEN PENDOT SEARCH.
WELL, BUT ISN'T THAT PART OF THE LOVER LANE'S PROPOSAL THAT IT IS? AND THIS IS REALLY JUST THE DESIGN ON HERE IS JUST SORT OF A REPRESENTATION OF HOW WE WANT THE ROAD TO SORT OF LOOK.
IT'S NOT AN EXACT, IT'S NOT ENGINEERED, IT'S NOT PLANNED.
IT'S REALLY JUST SAYING WE WANT TO CONNECT FROM A MAN TO LAYING BACK.
'CAUSE IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UM, THE LARGER SQUARE, AND I'M NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO PUT THAT UP ON THE SCREEN, BUT THE LOWER LEFT HERE BY THE TITLE BLOCK, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE, THE LINE IS DRAWN AND IT, IT'S NOT EXACTLY THE SAME.
THE PLAN FOR THE ROAD IS NOT EXACTLY THE SAME AS WHAT THE DEVELOPER HAS DRAWN AT THAT POINT.
THESE WERE REALLY JUST REPRESENTATIONS THAT TO BE PERFECTLY FRANK, I DREW, AND I'M NOT AN ENGINEER.
I MADE THEM LOOK GENERALLY, GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH WHAT A ROAD SHOULD DO, BUT IT'S NOT ENGINEERED BY ANY STRETCH.
ALL OF THESE, AND I'LL EXPLAIN ANOTHER ONE HERE IN A MINUTE.
WHEN THEY COME IN, THEY GET ENGINEERED AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT ENDS UP THIS IS REALLY JUST SHOWING WHAT SHOULD BE WHERE IT SHOULD BE GENERALLY.
SO THAT, SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS IN THAT SPECIFIC CASE, THE, THE, THE LOVE'S LANE IS SOMETHING THAT THE TOWNSHIP WOULD END UP HAVING TO BEAR THE COST NO.
THIS IS, THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE, IF THERE'S A PIECE AND, UM, LET ME GET TO THE NEXT SLIDE THAT MAKES A LITTLE BIT MORE SENSE.
UM, AND LEMME ZOOM IN RIGHT HERE.
SO WE'RE SORT OF ALL FAMILIAR WITH THE HOPWOOD ROAD, RIGHT? AND, AND THE, THE, THE, THE APARTMENTS THAT ARE PLANNED FOR HERE AND THEN THE TOWNHOUSES THAT ARE PLANNED FOR BOTH SIDES OF THE ROAD.
WHAT WE PUT ON A PLAN AS A TOWNSHIP BACK IN 2008, AND EVEN PROBABLY BEFORE THAT, I MEAN, LOOKING AT THE REVISION LIST IN 2005, WE TALKED ABOUT ROAD ALIGNMENTS LAYOUT AND POTENTIAL TRAIL.
AND UM, SO MY GUESS IS THAT THIS GENERALLY CAME ABOUT AROUND 2005.
SO WHEN A DEVELOPER COMES IN AND SAYS, WELL LOOK, I OWN THESE TWO PIECES.
WE SHOW THEM THE OFFICIAL MAP AND SAY, YOU HAVE TO REALIGN THE ROAD.
WE REALIZE THIS IS AN ENGINEER, BUT AS PART OF THIS, THE TOWNSHIP'S EXPRESS THE DESIRE TO HAVE THIS ROAD REALIGNED.
AND YOU AS THE DEVELOPER, IF YOU'RE DEVELOPING THESE PIECES, THIS IS HOW YOU'RE GOING TO REALIGN IT.
SO THAT'S, THIS ONE'S A CASE OF WHERE IT'S HAPPENING.
AND THE ROAD IS GENERALLY GONNA BE IN THIS SHAPE TO BE REALIGNED.
WELL, WASN'T THAT WASN'T, THAT WAS PART OF FOR YORKIES WHEN, 'CAUSE THE OTHER ONES WEREN'T YORKIES WAS FIRST.
RIGHT? WASN'T THAT PART OF THE YORKIE'S AGREEMENT? THEY, WE, THEY HAD TO REDEVELOPED THAT OR REDESIGNED THAT ROAD.
IT, YEAH, THEY WERE A LITTLE BIT OF A CHICKEN AND THE EGG, BUT YEAH, THEY WERE ALL SORT OF IN THERE BECAUSE THEY CAME IN WITH JUST THE APARTMENTS FIRST AND THAT WAS JUST THE INTERSECTION.
AND THEN WHEN THEY SAID, WELL, WE NEED TO BUILD THE TOWNHOUSES AT THE SAME TIME TO SORT OF COST SHARE AND COMMUNITIES
[00:15:01]
OF SCALE AND THROUGH THERE.AND WE SAID, OKAY, WELL NOW YOU ALSO HAVE TO DO THIS ROAD.
OKAY, SO LEMME GO BACK TO WHERE I WAS OVER HERE.
UM, ANOTHER PIECE THAT WE FINISHED IS DOWN HERE AT JACOBS.
IF ANYBODY'S BEEN TO LOCK 29 AND, AND THE ROAD REALIGNMENT DOWN THERE IN THE INTERSECTION.
'CAUSE IT WAS AN OFFSET INTERSECTION, RIGHT? THERE WAS JUST A DISASTER.
AND THERE'S A, NOT THAT TRAFFIC'S MUCH BETTER, BUT IT HAS IMPROVED TRAFFIC IN THERE.
THAT'S ONE THAT WE'VE, THAT'S ONE THAT WE'VE FINISHED.
UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS ONE OVER HERE, THAT'S AT THE BOTTOM OF, OF LONGFORD ROAD, THAT'S ONE WE HAVE NOT FINISHED.
WE HAVEN'T, AUDUBON LAND DEVELOPMENT HAS THIS PIECE.
WE'VE NEVER EVEN REALLY BEEN APPROACHED ABOUT FROM AUDUBON LAND DEVELOPMENT ABOUT THAT PIECE.
UM, WERE YOU AT JEFF? I'M SORRY, I THINK HE'S DOWN HERE.
RIGHT THERE, RIGHT WHERE IT SAYS PORT PROVIDENCE.
I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S OTHER PIECES OF TOWNSHIP PROPERTY THAT WE'VE ACQUIRED, UM, IN THERE, A COUPLE THAT ARE IN DEVELOPMENT, THE LOVER'S LANE PIECE.
UM, AND THEN GOING TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
WHAT'S THE GREEN DOTS? SIR, BEFORE YOU GET OFF THAT, I'M SORRY, MONTCLAIR.
UM, THE GREEN DOTS ARE, THAT'S OPEN SPACE, THAT'S ALL OWNED BY THE STATE.
SO IT'S NOT DEVELOPABLE, IT'S OWNED BY THE STATE.
UM, I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT ON THERE BECAUSE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE, THE LAST THING FOR THE OPEN SPACE MAP AND IDENTIFYING OPEN SPACE PARCELS, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KNEW THAT MOST OF THIS WAS ALREADY PERMANENTLY PRESERVED AS STATE PROPERTY.
I DON'T TRUST THE COUNTY WITH THEIR, WITH THEIR BUYING PROPERTY.
BUT I DO TRUST THE STATE THAT THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE SELLING THAT.
WHAT, WHAT, WHAT, JUST CURIOSITY.
WHAT, HOW WOULD THE STATE OWN THOSE? WHAT THAT LITTLE, THOSE, WELL, SOME OF IT IS LIKE THIS YELLOW LINE THROUGH HERE.
THIS YELLOW THAT, THAT LINEAR ORANGE, YELLOW RIGHT.
THAT'S THE, UM, PHOENIXVILLE CUTOFF OR SPUR, YOU KNOW, IT HAS A COUPLE DIFFERENT NAMES.
PENNDOT, I THINK PENNDOT, LEMME STOP.
I THINK PENNDOT OWNS THIS PROPERTY IN THROUGH HERE.
AND IT'S PROPERTY THE TOWNSHIP HAS ALWAYS WANTED TO ACQUIRE BECAUSE IT'S A GREAT FOR A LINEAR PIECE OF OPEN SPACE.
UM, BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS PENNDOT AND THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA DO OWN THESE.
SO AT SOME POINT THEY ACQUIRED THOSE PIECES ON THE IDEA OF MAKING THE PHOENIXVILLE SPUR COME OVER INTO PHOENIXVILLE OFF OF 4 22.
THE IDEA WAS TO HAVE A DEDICATED HIGHWAY OVER, RIGHT, ANTHONY? I MEAN, YEAH.
SO THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN BECAUSE OVER IN PHOENIXVILLE IN THIS AREA, THE END PART OF THE ROAD IS DEVELOPED INTO HOUSES.
UM, PENDOT HAS NOT EXPRESSED ANY INTEREST IN DOING IT.
AND THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS THAT OVER, I THINK JOE AND I, AND EVEN ANTHONY SPENT A YEAR LOOKING INTO THIS AND TRYING TO GET PENDOT TO GIVE US THIS PROPERTY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO USE IT.
YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD TO PAY FOR IT, WE'D FIGURE OUT A WAY TO PAY FOR IT.
PENDOT DOESN'T THINK THEY OWN IT.
I MEAN, I, MR. CHAPMAN AND I HAVE HAD THE CONVERSATION.
THEY DO OWN IT, BUT THEY DO OWN IT.
AND I'VE TRIED TO POINT THAT OUT TO THEM.
WE'VE GONE TO THEIR GENERAL COUNSEL, WE'VE TALKED TO, YOU KNOW, AS HIGH UP AS WE CAN GET.
WE CAN'T GET THEM TO ADMIT THAT THEY OWN IT.
SO THEY CAN'T, THEY WON'T SAY, OKAY, YES, WE'LL GIVE IT TO YOU
IS IT, IT'S NOT IN LIKE THE TIP IN THE TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENT PLAN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SOUNDS LIKE THAT MIGHT BE ONE TO CALL ELON MUSK ON THAT AND ASK YOU TO LOOK INTO THAT.
THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A YEAH.
ADMINISTRATIVE OVERSIGHT TONIGHT, RIGHT? A LITTLE.
WE CAN'T GET PAST OVERSIGHT THERE.
BUT, SO THAT'S, THAT'S SORT OF THE MONTCLAIR AREA.
AND THEN UP IN THE COLLEGEVILLE AREA, YOU CAN SEE THAT SOME, YOU KNOW, THE PIECES HAVE GONE TO DEVELOPMENT IN THERE, IN THERE.
UM, WE HAVE, WE HAVE, WE DID THE ARCOLA ROAD IMPROVEMENT.
THAT'S BEEN A LONG, LONG TIME AGO.
BUT WE, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS ONE OF THE OFFICIAL MAP POLICIES.
UM, IN THROUGH HERE, THERE'S, I THINK WE CAN SEE THIS BETTER ON THE NEXT ONE, BUT THERE'S A HOLLOW ROAD CHANGE AND A BLOCK ROCK ROAD CHANGE THAT, UM, NO, THIS IS MY LAST ONE, I THINK.
THIS, THIS IS THE LAST SLIDE IN THIS SECTION.
BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT WE'VE DONE A LOT OF THOSE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS.
THERE'S STILL SOME PROPERTIES IDENTIFIED AS OPEN SPACE POTENTIAL THAT WE'D LIKE TO ACQUIRE.
SO GOING BACK TO THE FIRST SLIDE AND EXPLAINING THESE GREEN AREAS.
THE OFFICIAL MAP IS GOING TO IDENTIFY OPEN SPACE PARCELS TO ACQUIRE FOR THE TOWNSHIP TO LOOK AT, TO ACQUIRE.
DOESN'T MEAN WE'RE NECESSARILY BUYING THEM.
WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT ACQUIRING PROPERTY RIGHTS.
WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, CONSERVATION EASEMENTS, BUYING DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS.
HOWEVER, WE CAN SORT OF STOP THE DEVELOPMENT.
AND EACH OF THESE GREEN POLYGONS ARE SORT OF THE AREAS LEFT IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT HAVE A LOT OF OPEN SPACE, LEFT UNDEVELOPED PROPERTY.
[00:20:01]
PROBLEMATIC TO DEVELOP A LOT OF THESE THINGS.THIS SQUARE HERE THAT'S RIGHT BY THE, BY WHERE IT SAYS ARCOLA, THAT'S VERY STEEP.
PART OF IT'S OWNED BY PFIZER, UM, OR WHOEVER OWNS PFIZER NOW, THE WHOEVER OWNS THAT CAMPUS NOW.
BUT IT'S AREAS THAT, YOU KNOW, IF A DEVELOPER THOUGHT THEY COULD MAKE ENOUGH MONEY ON IT, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY DEVELOP.
AND, AND WE, AS YOU'VE EXPRESSED TO ME, THAT WE WANNA SORT OF SLOW THOSE THINGS DOWN.
UM, AND I, I THINK IT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION TO, INSTEAD OF HAVING THESE, WHICH IS A LITTLE HARD TO SEE THE ORANGE BLOBS, LET'S CLEARLY DEFINE SOME PARCELS IN EACH ONE OF THESE GREEN BLOBS IN THESE GREEN POLYGONS AND SAY, THESE ARE THE PARCELS WE WANT THE TOWNSHIP TO LOOK AT PRESERVING IN SOME MANNER.
UM, I'LL GO THROUGH AND IDENTIFY THEM TO BEGIN WITH.
AND THEN THE NEXT ITERATION OF THE MAP, WHETHER THAT'S NEXT, THE NEXT MEETING OR IN, IN APRIL, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SAY, YES, I THINK THIS IS A GOOD PIECE, OR NO, I DON'T THINK THIS IS A GOOD PIECE.
YOU KNOW, AND WE CAN, YOU CAN MAKE THE SUGGESTION IF YOU LIKE THEM OR NOT.
UM, SAME THING WITH ROAD IMPROVEMENTS.
I MEAN, SOME OF THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS I, I THINK WE'RE GONNA KEEP ON HERE.
LET'S SEE IF WE CAN, IF I HAVE A GOOD SHOT OF IT BE BEFORE YOU GO TO ROADS, CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION ON THE OPEN SPACE? SO, UM, YOU MENTIONED CONSERVATION EASEMENTS AND OUTRIGHT PURCHASES.
DO YOU KNOW, IS, ARE THOSE LINE ITEMS IN THE TOWNSHIP'S CAPITAL BUDGET ALREADY? IS THERE LIKE A ROLLING FUND OR IS IT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE, UM, THERE IS SOME MONEY IN THE BUDGET.
IT'S NOT A LOT THAT, THAT'S JUST SORT OF SET ASIDE FOR OPEN SPACE FUNDING, WHETHER THAT'S USED FOR MAINTENANCE, WHICH IT'S NOT A LOT FOR MAINTENANCE OR, OR OPEN SPACE ACQUISITION.
WE DO HAVE SOME MONEY IN THERE.
I, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE EXACT AMOUNT, WHAT IT ROLLED INTO FOR THIS YEAR.
THERE'S ALSO OTHER AVENUES THAT THE TOWNSHIP'S DISCUSSING TO CREATE A FUNDING SOURCE FOR THOSE.
THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS REAL IS, HAS EXPRESSED AN INTEREST IN DOING THIS.
AND THEY, THEY, I THINK TO A PERSON ARE ACTIVE AND, AND WANT TO CONSERVE MORE PROPERTY ARE LOOKING TO DO IT.
THEY JUST, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR FRONTING SOURCES OTHER THAN JUST PUTTING A LINE ITEM IN, IN, IN THE BUDGET.
SO WHILE IT MAY NOT HAPPEN FOR NEXT YEAR, AT LEAST WE'RE WITH IDENTIFYING THIS MAP AND GETTING SOME CONTACT WITH THE OWNERS OF THESE PROPERTIES, IT'LL GET THE BALL ROLLING SO THAT WE KNOW WHAT MONEY WE CAN PUT IN THE BUDGET FOR NEXT YEAR IF WE NEED TO PUT THE MONEY IN THE BUDGET FOR NEXT YEAR.
AND THEN THE, THE SECOND QUESTION IS, WHAT'S THE LAND IN EACH OF THOSE GREEN BOXES ZONED AT CURRENTLY? IS THERE A, MOST OF THEM ARE R ONE.
SO, UM, AGAIN, IT'S THE ZONING'S NOT ON THIS MAP.
I'LL, I THINK I CAN COMPARE THE TWO WHEN WE DO THAT.
WHEN I IDENTIFY SPECIFIC PARCELS, I WAS SORT OF LOOKING JUST AT AREAS AT THIS POINT.
UM, BUT YES, MOST OF THIS IS R ONE.
THERE MIGHT BE A FEW PIECES THAT CREEP INTO AN R TWO.
UM, I WOULD SAY IT'S PROBABLY ALL RESIDENTIALLY ZONED, BUT BY RIGHT.
IF SOMEBODY BOUGHT IT BEFORE THE TOWNSHIP WAS ABLE TO, THEY'D BE ABLE TO PUT IN A BUNCH OF SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING.
WHEN WE REDO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT, WOULD IT BE WORTH CONSIDERING THE POSSIBILITY OF, UM, PUTTING MORE OPEN SPACE IN AND YOU MEAN A HIGHER OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENT? YEAH, AND CERTAINLY, I MEAN, THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN TALK ABOUT.
AND THEN IF IT, ASSUMING MOST OF 'EM ARE ASSOCIATIONS, THE ASSOCIATION DOES THE MAINTENANCE SO THE TAXPAYERS OF THE TOWNSHIP DON'T EVEN HAVE TO PAY TO MOW IT ALL THE TIME AND MAINTAIN IT.
SO, OR IF YOU ASK BILL FELTON THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE GRASS ANYWAY.
UM, YES, I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION RIGHT NOW.
THE, THE THE OPEN, THE BASIC OPEN SPACE SET ASIDE WE HAVE IS PROBABLY UNDER THE, THE AMOUNT IT SHOULD BE.
SO, UM, I'M HUGGING THE MIC, SORRY.
ON, ON, UM, IN R ONE, AND FORGIVE ME FOR NOT KNOWING THIS.
I, IS IT POSSIBLE TO DO WHAT WOULD'VE BASICALLY BE, I THINK A, A CONSERVATION SUBDIVISION? OR DO YOU LIKE WHERE YOU AGGREGATE ALL OF THE SINGLE FAMILY INTO ONE SPOT, BUT THEN THE REST OF THE LAND IS PERMANENTLY PRESERVED? OR DOES IT HAVE TO BE? WE HAVE AN OPTION IN, IN R ONE CALLED FLEX LOTTING.
AND I DON'T LIKE THE NAME, BUT YES, THAT'S GENERALLY WHAT IT IS.
IT TAKES, IT TAKES THE YIELD FROM, ALRIGHT, WE'LL JUST USE AN EXAMPLE, A 30 ACRE PIECE THAT YIELD WOULD BE 30 HOUSES FOR ONE ACRE.
IT WOULD TAKE THOSE 30 HOUSES ALLOW YOU TO STILL DO 30 HOUSES, BUT YOU'D HAVE TO COME DOWN TO A, A LOT AVERAGE OF 20,000 PER SQUARE FOOT.
OR THE LOT AVERAGE IS YOU COULD COME DOWN TO A 20,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT AND THE REST OF IT WOULD HAVE TO BE OPEN SPACE.
SO INSTEAD OF HAVE, YOU'RE BASICALLY CUTTING THE OPEN SPACE, YOU'RE
[00:25:01]
DOUBLING THE OPEN SPACE.'CAUSE YOU'RE GOING FROM A 40,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT TO A 20,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT.
AND THE REST OF IT HAS TO BE OPEN SPACE.
AND THEN THERE IN R THAT'S R ONE AND R TWO, THERE'S A CLUSTER OPTION THAT'S GENERALLY THE SAME.
I THINK YOU CAN ALSO DO THAT IN R THREE WITH THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS.
AND I THINK ANTHONY CAN ALSO SPEAK TO THIS A LITTLE BIT, AND I'M JUST GONNA TALK ABOUT THE HOLDOVER ONES.
THE ONES WE HAVE NOT FINISHED ARE, IT'S, IT'S TOUGH TO SEE DOWN HERE, BUT HOPWOOD ROAD, THE EXTENSION OF HOPWOOD ROAD GOING THROUGH, LET'S SEE IF IT'S BETTER ON THIS ONE.
YEAH, IT'S BETTER ON THIS ONE.
THE EXTENSION OF HOPWOOD ROAD, IF YOU REMEMBER, THERE'S A, THERE WAS A SEVEN LOT SUBDIVISION HERE THAT SORT OF PUSHED THE ROAD THROUGH A LITTLE BIT.
THERE'S, THERE'S A SECTION THAT HAS TO FINISH UP.
I THINK THAT'S ONE THAT'S STILL A VALUABLE, UM, PRIORITY FOR THE TOWNSHIP TO CREATE A BETTER TRAFFIC FLOW THROUGH HERE.
WE STILL GET A DECENT NUMBER OF ACCIDENTS AT THIS INTERSECTION.
THAT'S A RIGHT TURN AND THEN A BLIND RED, A BLIND LEFT TURN.
AND IT, IT'S, YOU KNOW, THIS CREATES A, A BETTER AVENUE AND ALSO WOULD REALIGN AN INTERSECTION.
UM, THE OTHER IS OBVIOUSLY WE'RE, WE'RE HOLDING ONTO THIS ONE AND I THINK THAT THAT'S THE ONLY OTHER ROAD IMPROVEMENT THAT WE HAVEN'T ACCOMP WE HAVEN'T FINISHED OR YEAH.
THE OTHER IS THIS DOWN HERE OFF OF LONGFORD ROAD? I'M NOT REALLY SURE I SEE THE VALUE IN THAT.
'CAUSE YOU'RE CONNECTING THROUGH A, I GUESS IT DEPENDS, AND THIS IS ANOTHER DISCUSSION WE HAVE TO HAVE IN THE FUTURE OF WHAT'S THE FUTURE DISPOSITION OF THE ZONING OF THIS PIECE.
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S INDUSTRIAL.
PART OF WHAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SUGGESTED WAS MAYBE THE ZONING OF THIS NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT BECAUSE IF THIS IS INDUSTRIAL, ALL OF THE HEAVY TRUCKS EITHER GO UP LONGFORD ROAD, WHICH IS PARTIALLY RESIDENTIAL AND COME OUT ONTO EGYPT ROAD, WHICH ALSO HAPPENS ON HOLLOW ROAD.
SO IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, A COMPLETELY DANGEROUS SITUATION OR THEY HAVE TO COME DOWN THROUGH PORT PROVIDENCE.
IF THERE WAS EVER SOMETHING THAT CLOSED LONGFORD ROAD, EVERYTHING WOULD HAVE TO COME THROUGH PORT PROVIDENCE AND MONTCLAIR.
AND THAT ROAD CERTAINLY CAN'T HA HANDLE ANY HEAVY TRUCKS OF ANY VOLUME.
SO THAT'S PROBABLY WHERE THIS ROAD COMES FROM, IS CONNECTING LONGFORD ROAD TO HOLLOW ROAD UP WELL OUT OF THE FLOODPLAIN.
BUT I THINK FOR NOW, WE, MY RECOMMENDATION IS TO LEAVE THIS ON THERE AND THEN AS WE TALK ABOUT WHAT THE FUTURE ZONING OF THIS PARCEL MIGHT BE, IF ANY CHANGES ARE TO HAPPEN, WE DISCUSS WHAT THE ROAD, HOW THE ROAD WOULD BE CONFIGURED.
YOU SAID IT'S INDUSTRIALLY ZONED.
IT'S BA IT'S RIGHT NOW IT'S BASICALLY A WOOD LOT.
QUICK QUESTIONS ON THE ROADWAYS.
UM, WE HAD TALKED ABOUT IT IN THE PAST, UM, ESPECIALLY WHEN TO WHEN TO, TOM WAS A BIG ADVOCATE FOR IT, UM, THE REALIGNMENT OF EGYPT ROAD AT 29.
IS THAT SOMETHING WORTH, UH, CONSIDERING, I GUESS? I THINK IT IS.
I THINK IF, IF, IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD, YOU KNOW, WANTS TO, TO, TO LOOK AT THAT, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN PUT ON THERE.
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, I MEAN EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT INTERSECTION'S NOT THE GREATEST.
HOW WOULD IT BE REALIGNED? SO THE IDEA WOULD BE TO MOVE IT TO, TO MOVE THE, TO GET RID OF THE ANGLE AND TRY TO BRING EGYPT ROAD, UH, MORE PERPENDICULAR, MORE OF A 90 DEGREES.
BUT THE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THAT CORNER LOT THAT'S THERE'S A LOT THERE.
I WAS GONNA SAY THAT YOU HAVE TO BUY SOME GUYS' HOUSE.
WELL, AND AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS A LONG TERM PLAN.
WE HAD THE, AND I REMEMBER PROBABLY FIVE, SIX YEARS AGO, WE HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT REALIGNING THAT INTERSECTION WHEN THAT HOUSE WENT, WENT ON THE MARKET ABOUT BUYING THE HOUSE SO WE COULD REALIGN THE INTERSECTION.
UM, IT WENT OFF THE MARKET BEFORE WE COULD EVER DO ANYTHING.
AND, AND THAT SORT OF SLOWED US DOWN.
BUT I THINK IF WE WERE TO PUT IT ON THE PLAN THAT IT WOULD AT LEAST MAYBE NOT THIS GENERATION OF PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS, MAYBE NOT THIS GENERATION OF CONSULTANTS, BUT MAYBE IN THE NEXT FIVE, 10 YEARS, LIKE THE AGE OF THIS MAP, YOU AT LEAST KNOW THAT THAT POLICY IS THERE.
IT DOESN'T GET LOST TO THE WINDS OF ANTHONY MOVING ON TO A DIFFERENT JOB AND, AND ME GETTING FIRED AND NOT REMEMBERING IT.
YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT NOBODY, NOBODY THINKS ABOUT IT.
AND NOW THAT YOU MENTION THAT, I THINK ANOTHER INTERSECTION WORTH LOOKING AT IS, UH, LONGFORD AND BLACKROCK ROAD.
LONGFORD AND BLACKROCK, THE TOP OF LONGFORD.
THAT'S ANOTHER ONE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR A WHILE TOO.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT FOR A WHILE.
WE, WE LOOKED AT DOING SOME THINGS MM-HMM
WE ACTUALLY HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH THE GENTLEMAN WHO OWNS THE HOUSE THERE.
UM, NOTHING EVER CAME OF IT, BUT I THINK THAT THAT'S ANOTHER AREA
[00:30:01]
THAT WE SHOULD LOOK AT.MAYBE JUST NOTING ON THIS MAP OF REALIGNMENT OR, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
IF, IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, THAT'S A BAD, THAT'S A BAD WHEN YOU COME DOWN THAT HILL AND PEOPLE WANT TO TURN AND YEAH.
BUT GOING BACK TO THAT, I MEAN, TOM MENTIONED THE, UH, VAUGHN LEWIS ROAD YES.
WHAT DOESN'T SHOW ON THIS MAP HERE, WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THAT WHOLE INTERSECTION, LEWIS ROAD, VAUGHN, I MEAN, YEAH, THAT, WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS? WHERE DO WE, AT WHAT POINT DOES THAT BECOME PART OF THIS PLAN? I MEAN, YEAH, I THINK THAT ONE, JUST, I'M CONFUSED AS TO WHERE WE ARE WITH SOME OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS WITH PENDO ACTIVITY VERSUS OUR OWN ACT.
I, I, I'M, I'M, I'M AT A LOSS HERE TO UNDERSTAND THIS.
I, I GUESS THIS MAP IS SORT OF OUR WISHLIST, RIGHT? AND IF, IF IT'S SOMETHING WHERE WE THINK IT'S A DANGEROUS INTERSECTION, WE WANNA REALIGN IT, WE PUT IT ON THIS MAP OR SOMETHING, THAT ROAD REALIGNMENT, WE PUT IT ON THIS MAP.
NOT NECESSARILY WORRYING ABOUT WHEN DEVELOPMENT COMES IN, BUT SEPARATELY, IF A DEVELOPMENT COMES IN FOR ANY PIECE, WE ALWAYS LOOK AT HOW THE ROAD SHOULD BE IMPROVED FOR THAT INTERSECTION.
AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE SOUTH LEWIS INVESTMENTS, THOSE TOWNHOUSES.
THERE IS, IT WASN'T NOTED ON THIS MAP, AND I KIND OF WISH IT WAS AFTER THE FACT, BUT IF WE HAD LOOKED AT IT AND SAID 20 YEARS AGO AND SAID, WE WANNA PUT IN A FULL LIT INTERSECTION HERE, AND HERE'S SORT OF THE DESIGN OF IT, THE, THE PATH OF IT, THEN THE DEVELOPER WOULD KNOW THAT THAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN WITH DEVELOPMENT.
WE DIDN'T PUT ANYTHING LIKE THAT ON THE MAP.
SO WE WERE A LITTLE BIT BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL ON HOW THAT INTERSECTION WAS GONNA BE CHANGED WITH THOSE HOUSES.
NOW THEY, THEY ARE MAKING SOME CHANGES.
THEY'RE PUTTING IN THE DEDICATED RIGHT TURN LANE FROM SOUTHWEST AND NONE OF THAT'S REFLECTED IN THIS MAP THAT IS NOT REFLECTED IN THIS MAP.
THIS MAP DOESN'T HAVE TO REFLECT EVERY ROAD CHANGE THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
THAT JUST, THAT'S WHERE I COMING WHEN WE APPROVED, WHEN WE APPROVED THAT DEVELOPMENT, THAT THAT WAS ALL PART OF IT.
I THOUGHT WE MADE THEM FIX THAT ROAD, BUT IT'S NOT A PERFECT FIX.
IT'S JUST THE BEST WE COULD GET.
BUT IT, BUT IT, IT'S BEEN APPROVED AND, AND THEREFORE, I'M NOT SURE WHY IT'S NOT ON THIS MAP, BECAUSE IT, WE DON'T EN SHOW, THIS MAP'S NOT GOING TO EN SHOW THE CURRENT ROAD IMPROVEMENTS OR THE FUTURE OR THE, THE, THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE DONE.
IT'S GONNA SHOW WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO, FROM A GENERAL SENSE, WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.
JEFF, IS IT FAIR TO SAY LIKE NEW REALIGNMENTS OF ROADWAYS, BRAND NEW ROADWAYS THAT ARE CONNECTING, YOU KNOW, LOCAL ROADS LIKE THAT, THAT'S KIND OF LIKE THE VISION REALLY FOR THESE, NOT LIKE EVERY SINGLE RIGHT, RIGHT.
TURN LANE OR LEFT TURN LANE, ET CETERA.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE, SIR? IF, IF, IF, IF WHAT JEFF'S SAYING, IF, IF 20 15, 20 YEARS AGO, IF THEY WOULD BE DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW, THEY WOULD'VE PUT THAT IN THERE THAT YOU HAD TO GOT IT.
FIX THAT WHOLE INTERSECTION AND IT WASN'T DONE.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO NOW FOR THE AREAS THAT ARE STILL OPEN OH.
WE'RE TRYING TO SAY, OKAY, HOW CAN WE FIX, MAKE THAT SURE.
IT'S, WE GET THE BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK IF SOMEBODY DOES DEVELOP IT, DO WE HAVE TO, COULD WE FIX THE ROADS OR WHATEVER WE HAVE, YOU MAKE THAT PART OF THE DEAL.
THAT'S PART OF THE DEAL TO APPROVE THE DEVELOPMENT.
SO USING, GOING BACK TO HOPWOOD ROAD AS AN EXAMPLE, WHEN THEY CAME IN, WE HAD IDENTIFIED THAT INTERSECTION, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS NEEDING IMPROVEMENT WHEN AND, AND HOPWOOD ROAD NEEDING TO BE REALIGNED.
THE VERY FIRST MEETING WE HAD WITH SILVER RHINO, IF YOU REMEMBER THAT NAME, OUT OF THE PAST.
UM, WITH SILVER RHINO, MY, ALMOST THE FIRST THING OUT OF MY MOUTH WAS, HEY, LOOK, WE CAN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING, BUT JUST UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE TO IMPROVE THIS INTERSECTION AND YOU HAVE TO IMPROVE THIS ROAD THROUGH HERE.
SAME THING I, SAME CONVERSATION I HAD WHEN HIGH DEVELOPMENT FIRST CAME TO ME WITH THE PERMAN WOODS, WITH THE, THE APARTMENTS THAT ARE AT PERMAN WOODS.
I SAID, LOOK, JUST SO YOU KNOW, THE FIRST THING YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO IS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO IMPROVE THIS INTERSECTION AND WIDEN THIS ROAD.
LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND HOW YOU'RE GONNA DO THAT.
BUT THESE ARE THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT THE TOWNSHIP'S GOING TO REQUIRE.
AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY WERE SHOWN ON THIS MAP.
JEFF, IT SEEMS LIKE, UH, BECAUSE THIS IS DOCUMENTATION OF OUR INTENTIONS MM-HMM
AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE ROAD ALIGNMENTS.
UH, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE IDENTIFIED IN THE COMP PLAN, LIKE AS PRIORITY PROJECTS PROBABLY NEED TO GET SHOWN ON HERE.
LIKE SOME OF THE, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE PUT ON THE LIST OF YES.
THE, THE TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS, RIGHT? MM-HMM
AND, AND ANTHONY, I CAN COORDINATE THAT.
AND, AND GET THEM ON HERE FOR THE NEXT, FOR THE NEXT ITERATION OF IT.
SEE WHAT MAKES SENSE TO ADD, THOUGH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT POPPED IN MY MIND TOO WAS THE ROUNDABOUT.
RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S A SIMILAR IDEA.
SECOND TO AVENUE TO BEVIS ROUNDABOUT.
'CAUSE I THINK BACK TO LEWIS AND VAUGHN.
LIKE IF, IF THAT CAN GET ON THE MAP, EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW IT'S PROGRESSING,
[00:35:01]
BUT IF SOMETHING WERE TO HAPPEN, YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS, RIGHT? BUT IT'S ON THERE.I THINK THE KEY, THE KEY POINT THAT YOU MADE, JEFF, IS THAT, UH, BY HAVING IT DOCUMENTED WHEN PROPOSALS, DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS COME ALONG, THERE'S SOMETHING TO MEASURE ADVISING, HEY, YOU WANNA DO A PROJECT HERE? YOU'VE GOTTA CONSIDER ALL THESE THINGS.
THAT WAY IT DOESN'T GET LOST, YOU KNOW? AND MY GOAL FOR TONIGHT WAS REALLY THIS, THIS OFFICIAL MAP HAS SORT OF BEEN GATHERING A LOT OF DUST.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE LAST UPDATE WAS IN 2008, AND IT'S JUST BECAUSE THERE HASN'T BEEN A LOT OF PUSH FOR IT IN THE TOWNSHIP.
I WANTED TO COME TONIGHT AND REINTRODUCE IT.
THE NEXT ITERATION OF THIS WILL, IT WILL LOOK COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FOR WHEN THE GRAPHICS AREN'T GONNA LOOK THIS OLD.
AND I MEAN, I DID A MAP, I DID THE MAP.
SO THEY, THEY LOOK, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE, A LITTLE WORN, BUT, WE'LL, UM, AS LONG AS YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH SORT OF THE DIRECTION I'M TAKING IT WITH ADDING SOME NEW OPEN SPACE PARCELS, SOME NEW AREAS, AND EVEN KEEPING THE POLICY OF ANYTHING ALONG THE RIVER THAT WE WANT TO, THAT WE WANNA ACQUIRE, I THINK IS A POLICY.
WE ALSO, WE ALWAYS WANT TO KEEP SHOWING THAT, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE NEW TOWNSHIP OPEN SPACES ARE THAT WE'VE ACQUIRED SINCE 2008 AND WORKING ON SOME ROAD IMPROVEMENTS AND MAKING SURE WE'RE SHOWING THOSE.
IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE THE NEXT STEP WITH THIS MAP.
AND THAT'S WHEN I THINK WE'LL SORT OF GET INTO THE FINE TUNE AND THE FINE DETAILS OF, WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS PARCEL AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT PARCEL.
OR, WHY AREN'T YOU ADDING THIS ONE? OR, YOU KNOW, DON'T ADD THAT ONE IF, IF, IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
AND, AND THE, THE CRITERIA THAT YOU WOULD USE GENERALLY IS TRYING TO FIND MORE PARCELS IN THE GREEN AREAS BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT THE LARGEST CONCENTRATIONS OF UNDEVELOPED LAND IN THE TOWNSHIP.
AND THEN ALSO ALONG THE RIVER.
THE IDEA IS TO, TO SORT OF CREATE, YOU KNOW, AN OPEN SPACE AREA.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP, UM, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS PORTION OF THE MAP UP HERE IN THE POPE, JOHN PAUL AREA, RITTENHOUSE ROAD, ALL OF THAT, THE TOWNSHIP HAS REALLY CREATED A, A SYNERGY OF OPEN SPACES.
NOW WE HAVE A PIECE ON THE EAST SIDE OF LEWIS ROAD, WE HAVE THE JOYCE PIECE, WHICH IS A LIFE LEASE.
AND, YOU KNOW, THAT WILL BECOME EVENTUALLY TOWNSHIP OPEN SPACE WHEN MR. JOYCE IS NO LONGER LIVING THERE.
YOU HAVE THE TAYLOR FARM, WHICH IS SORT OF RIGHT UNDERNEATH THE, I'M SORRY, THE, THE HESS PRESERVE, WHICH IS RIGHT UNDERNEATH THE ONE.
THEN YOU HAVE SOME, UM, TRAIL CONNECTION ACROSS TO THIS PIECE, WHICH IS TOWNSHIP OPEN SPACE.
AND THERE'S SOME DISCUSSION OF MORE TRAIL CONNECTION THROUGH THERE.
AND THEN TRAIL CONNECTION UP THROUGH TO THE TAYLOR FARM.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE RECEIVED A GRANT FOR SOME TRAILS, SOME PASSIVE TRAILS IN THROUGH THERE SO THAT, THAT PARK, THAT TOWNSHIP OPEN SPACE IS GONNA BECOME MORE USABLE THAN IT IS NOW.
YOU KNOW? AND WE'VE CONNECTED UP THROUGH TO, UM, THE TARGET AND RIDGE PIKE AREA THROUGH TRAILS.
SO THIS REALLY HAS SORT OF WORKED ITSELF OUT OF AN AREA THAT, UM, BY SHOWING IT ON THIS MAP OF AREAS THAT WE WANT TO, THAT WE'VE ACQUIRED AND WE'VE CREATED JUST SORT OF A NICE POCKET OF OPEN SPACE WHEN WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE CHALLENGE IS WE HAVE A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT PARCELS.
WE DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN PARKHOUSE, OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T HAVE ONE BIG PARCEL TO, WE SAY, THIS IS THE ONE WE WANNA PRESERVE.
AND THE REASON YOU DON'T HAVE THE AREA WEST OF, OR WEST THE ANGLE ALWAYS MESSES IT UP.
BUT THE, THE MONTCLAIR AREA THAT WAS IDENTIFIED IN THE 2006 PLAN IN, IN A GREEN HEXAGON IS BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY MILDLY PRESERVED BY BEING UNKNOWN PENDOT LAND IN THIS AREA HERE.
BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S OWNED BY, UM, THE STATE OR TOWNSHIP.
AGAIN, IF, IF YOU WANT TO, IF I WILL GO THROUGH, AND I THINK ON THIS NEXT MAP, I WANNA IDENTIFY WHO OWNS WHAT IN TERMS OF STATE, COUNTY AND US, SO THAT WE SORT OF UNDERSTAND WHAT ELSE IS AVAILABLE AND SHOWS A BETTER REPRESENTATION OF IT.
IF THERE'S A PARCEL THAT STICKS OUT TO ME THAT'S LIKE THIS PARCEL HERE IS ST.
MIKE'S WAS EVER TO GO UNDER, GOD FORBID, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS WITH THAT PROPERTY? IF THE TOWNSHIP SHOWS THAT THEY WANT TO ACQUIRE IT, AT LEAST IT SETS A POLICY SAYING, LOOK, WE WANNA ACQUIRE THIS.
MIKE'S EVER DECIDES THEY WANNA SELL, RIGHT? IN PART OR IN WHOLE, I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WITH ALL OF THIS, IT'S, IT'S, IT IDENTIFIES THE WHOLE PARCEL.
BUT IF SOMEONE COMES TO US AND ST.
MIKE'S SAYS, LOOK, I WANNA SELL OFF THE, THE BACK 20 BECAUSE WE JUST CAN'T AFFORD TO MOW IT ANYMORE.
AND THEY COME TO THE TOWNSHIP FIRST, AND THE TOWNSHIP GOES, THAT'S GREAT.
YOU KNOW, THE SUPERVISOR'S OBVIOUSLY NOT ME.
SO THAT AT LEAST IT'S SHOWN ON A MAP THAT, THAT THAT'S SOMETHING WE WANT TO, WE WANNA PUT IN THERE.
SO I WILL INCLUDE THIS AREA, I MEAN, EVERYTHING ALONG THE RIVER AND, AND IDENTIFY THE PARCELS IN THROUGH THERE.
HOW MANY, HOW MANY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ARE STILL LEFT THERE IN MONTCLAIR? ALONG THE RIVER THERE? I DON'T KNOW.
I KNOW THAT WE HAVE, WE HAVE PURCHASED AROUND 20 TO 25 THAT HAVE COME DOWN.
[00:40:01]
UM, WE'VE, THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW OTHERS THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO PURCHASE THROUGH SHERIFF'S SALE OR JUST APPROACHED THE OWNER BECAUSE IT'S IN DISREPAIR.SO THERE'VE BEEN A COUPLE OTHERS THAT WE'VE PURCHASED THAT, THAT ARE GONNA COME DOWN.
THAT'S PART OF THE OTHER DISCUSSION THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAVE BEEN HAVING ABOUT HOW DO WE CREATE A FUND AND WHAT SORT OF FUND DO WE WANNA SET ASIDE SO THAT WHEN A HOUSE DOES COME UP, WHICH HAS HAPPENED A COUPLE TIMES NOW IT'S ON SHERIFF'S SALE, THE TOWNSHIP GETS NOTIFIED OF A SHERIFF'S SALE BEFORE THE GENERAL PUBLIC DOES.
SO WE LOOK AT IT AND IF THERE'S SOMETHING ALONG THE RIVER, WE USUALLY APPROACH THE SHERIFF AND SAY, LOOK, HOLD THIS PROPERTY BACK, WHICH THEY WILL DO FOR US.
AND THEN WE APPROACH THE OWNER AND WE LOOK AT, WE TALK TO THE OWNER LIKE, LOOK, YOUR TAX BURDEN IS THIS, HAVE WHAT WE PAY YOU THIS, AND YOU GIVE HER YOUR TAX BURDEN.
AND IT'S WORKED, I THINK TWICE NOW THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT, TO ACQUIRE OTHER PROPERTIES.
SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY LOOKING OUT FOR THAT.
THE QUESTION, WHAT HAPPENS IS THEN WE HAVE TO DO A BUDGET ADJUSTMENT AND WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH AND SAY, OKAY, WELL THE MONEY'S FROM HERE TO THERE, BECAUSE THAT'S JUST THE WAY THE MUNICIPAL BUDGETING WORKS.
SO TO HAVE A SEPARATE SET ASIDE FUND FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL AND ALLOW THE TOWNSHIP TO BE MUCH MORE FLEXIBLE AND QUICK ABOUT BUYING THINGS.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE DRAWBACKS TO THE FEMA GRANT, WAS THAT IT TOOK AN EXTREMELY LONG TIME TO GET FROM YES, WE'LL DO IT TO CLOSING.
AND BETWEEN THAT TIME HOUSING VALUE WENT WAY UP.
SO A LOT OF OF PEOPLE IN THE PROGRAM SAID, WELL, I CAN SELL FOR MORE.
AND THEY WOULD SELL ON THE MARKET FOR MORE AND THEY WOULD FALL OUT OF THE PROGRAM.
'CAUSE WE WERE UP AROUND 40 SOME HOUSES, BUT I THINK IT ENDED UP BEING IN, IN THE TWENTIES.
SO, AND MOST OF THAT WAS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO FIRST ENTERED THE PROGRAM REALIZED THAT THEY COULD SELL THEIR HOUSE FOR MORE OR THEY COULD FIX THEM UP.
SO, SO IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT AND, AND YOU UNDER, IF THERE'S NO MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE MAP AS IT IS NOW, I'LL MOVE FORWARD AND MAKE SOME CHANGES.
AND I MEAN, I COULD HAVE GONE THROUGH AND JUST MADE THE CHANGES AND JUST SORT OF SAID, OKAY, HERE IT IS.
BUT I, I REALLY THINK IT'S BETTER IF YOU GUYS HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING.
AND I TRY TO DO THIS WITH EVERYTHING STEP THROUGH, PIECE BY PIECE SO THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT CHANGES WE GET MADE.
AND THEN IF I MAKE TOO MUCH OF A CHANGE, YOU CAN DIAL ME BACK.
COULD YOU DISTRIBUTE THE 2006 PLAN? I COULDN'T FIND IT ANYWHERE ONLINE.
THE 2006 THAT'S REFERENCED IN THE MAP.
LIKE HOW THE LAND WAS SELECTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I THINK WE HAVE AN ELECTRONIC COPY OF THAT.
WE HAVE AN, WE HAVE AN UPDATED OPEN SPACE AND PARK MAP.
SO WHAT'S THE NEXT STEP? YOU'RE GONNA UPDATE THIS MAP? I WILL UPDATE THIS.
I'LL MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE READABLE.
I WON'T PUT AS MANY ARROWS AND COLORS ON IT.
AND UM, WE'LL GO FROM THERE AND WE'LL, WE'LL, I'LL PUT WHAT I THINK OUR CURRENT POLICY IS FROM MY INTERPRETATION OF OUR CONVERSATIONS HERE AT THESE MEETINGS.
AND WE'LL GO THROUGH IT LIKE WE DID THROUGH, THROUGH HERE.
AND IF I'M OFF BASE, I'M OFF BASE AND WE'LL FIX IT.
IF THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE WE'LL ADD IT.
DON'T TAKE TOO MANY OF THE ARROWS IN ALL.
YEAH, I'LL DOES THAT, DOES THAT, YEAH, THAT HELPS QUITE A BIT IN TERMS OF WHAT'S IN DEVELOPMENT, WHAT'S PROPOSED, WHAT'S, YOU KNOW.
I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE TOO MUCH OFF.
I THINK YOU DID A NICE JOB, JEFF.
SO, UH, WITH THAT, LET'S MOVE ON TO, I GUESS, UH, ANTHONY'S GONNA DO RIGHT AWAY MAP.
JEFF DON'T HAVE, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING FOR THE, I CAN PUT, PUT JERRY'S UP IF YOU WANT ME TO.
UM, IT'LL TAKE ME A MINUTE, I'LL DIG FOR IT.
DOES THAT HAVE A DIFFERENT HIGHLIGHTED VERSION OF THAT SAME MAP THAT YOU MARKED UP? UM, JUST TO KIND OF SHOW SURE.
UH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF DO A COMPARE AND CONTRAST WITH WHAT WE UPDATED VERSUS WHAT'S CURRENTLY ON THE MAP TODAY.
AND THEN ALSO BEFORE WE GET INTO THE MAP DISCUSSION, 'CAUSE I, YOU KNOW, I WAS, I WAS, UH, RECORDING WITH JEFF AND I KNOW THERE WAS A LOT OF QUESTIONS WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT FUNCTIONAL CLASSIFICATION AND RIGHT AWAY, ET CETERA, AS WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE COMP PLAN CHANGES.
SO FIRST THING I WANTED TO DO BEFORE EVEN GETTING INTO THOSE MAPS WAS I, I HAVE ANOTHER HANDOUT THAT I PROVIDED THAT'S JUST LIKE A FOUR STEP QUICK.
IT'S, IT'S LIKE A QUICK GUIDE I GUESS, INTO UNDERSTANDING TO HELP US ALL UNDERSTAND HOW THE RIGHT OF WAY MAP AND THE FUNCTIONAL CLASSIFICATION, WHICH GOES INTO THE RIGHT OF WAY MAP, HELPS WITH OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT.
THAT WAY HOPEFULLY YOU GET YOU, YOU KNOW, THE PLAN COMMISSION CAN UNDERSTAND WHEN JEN, MYSELF, AND JEFF RECEIVE PLANS LIKE HOW, HOW THAT MAP WORKS WITH WHAT WE DO IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT.
THAT WAY YOU KIND OF UNDERSTAND THE BACKGROUND BEFORE WE EVEN START TALKING ABOUT
[00:45:01]
FUNCTIONAL CLASS AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF.SO IF YOU HAVE THAT SMALL EIGHT AND A HALF BY 11 HANDOUT, UM, THE EXAMPLE, IT'S CALLED THE EXAMPLE USE OF THE FUNCTIONAL CLASSIFICATION FOR LAND DEVELOPMENT.
UM, SO I JUST WANT TO KIND OF WALK THROUGH WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PLANS ARE RECEIVED AND WE START GETTING INTO THAT, THAT REVIEW PROCESS.
SO THE FUNCTIONAL, THE RIGHT OF WAY MAP ULTIMATELY, UM, WHICH YOU SEE IN SECTION NUMBER ONE THERE.
SO WHAT WE WOULD DO, FOR EXAMPLE, A PLAN COMES IN AND WE START TRYING TO IDENTIFY WHAT'S HAP YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT THE ROADWAY CLASSIFICATION IS BECAUSE THAT FACTORS INTO RIGHT OF WAY AND ROADWAY WIDTHS THAT ARE REQUIRED PER THE TOWNSHIP ORDINANCES FOR PER THE ALDO.
SO THE FIRST THING WE DO WHEN THE PLAN COMES IN IS WE LOOK AND IDENTIFY THE ROAD THAT THE DEVELOPMENT'S ON.
SO IN THE, IN THE, IN EXAMPLE, IN SCREENSHOT ONE, I'M USING AN EXISTING LAND DEVELOPMENT.
I THINK WE CAN ALL GUESS WHAT THIS IS HOPWOOD ROAD.
UM, SO WE IDENTIFY HOPWOOD ROAD AND, AND PER THE MAP CURRENT, THE EXISTING ONE, I GO TO THE LEGEND, WE IDENTIFY THAT AS A COLLECTOR ROAD.
SO THE COLLECTOR ROAD IS SHOWING THAT IT'S REQUIRED TO HAVE AN 80 FOOT ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY.
SO WHEN THE, UM, WHEN THE DEVELOPER DEVELOPS, HE KNOWS ALONG HIS FRONTAGE, ALONG HIS HALF FRONT IS A 40 FOOT HALF RIGHT OF WAY.
SO FROM THE CENTER LINE TO ON THEIR SIDE IT'S 40 FOOT, THE REMAINING 40 FOOT IS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ROAD.
SO, UM, THAT'S OUR STARTING POINT.
SO THEN, YOU KNOW, WE GO TO THE ALDO STEP TWO, WE GO TO THE SECTION 2 70 48 C, WHICH IS STREETS, AND THEN WE GO TO SECTION C IDENTIFIES THE ROADWAY CLASSIFICATIONS.
AND YOU CAN SEE I HIGHLIGHTED C TWO COLLECTOR ROADS AND I UNDERLINED IN RED WHAT THAT MEANS.
SO MINIMUM RIGHT AWAY, WIDTH OF 80 FEET MINIMUM PAVEMENT WIDTH OF 40 FEET.
SO IF THE ROAD IS, YOU KNOW, 20, 20 FEET WIDE, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S INSUFFICIENT.
THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO WIDEN TO GET 40 FOOT ON, UH, YOU KNOW, OR, UH, I SHOULD SAY IF IT'S 10 FOOT WIDE, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO WIDEN TO GET, UH, THE HALF FOOT 20 ON, ON THEIR SIDE, RIGHT? SO THAT'S HOW WE START ESTABLISHING WHAT NEEDS, WHAT SORT OF WIDENING NEEDS TO OCCUR ON THEIR FRONTAGE AND WHAT SORT OF RIGHT OF WAY NEEDS TO BE ESTABLISHED ALONG THEIR FRONTAGE, WHICH PLAYS IN PART THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE FOR THE DEVELOPER, THEY NEED TO KNOW WHERE THAT, UH, FUTURE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY IS BECAUSE THERE ARE SETBACKS FOR THEIR BUILDINGS AND PARKING LOTS, ET CETERA, ALL BASED OFF OF THAT LINE.
SO, UM, SO AS YOU, YOU SEE IT'S MORE, IT'S LIKE A PLANNING TOOL.
SO THEN WE MOVE IN AND HOW THAT RELATES IN, IN OUR WORLD, IN THE BOWMAN WORLD, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S COMMENTS THAT WE MADE.
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE FROM THE SAME LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION.
COMMENTS EIGHT AND NINE WERE MADE, YOU KNOW, USING THE MAP AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE RIGHT OF WAY AND THE CART WAY WITH, UM, IS REQUIRED TO BE, YOU KNOW, REVIEWING WHAT THE PLAN WAS PROPOSING AND THEN IDENTIFYING, YOU KNOW, CHANGES OR, OR ESTABLISHMENT OF ROAD AND RIGHT OF WAY THAT NEED TO OCCUR.
UM, AND THEN STEP NUMBER FOUR, AFTER, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BACK AND FORTH AND PLAN REVISIONS, ET CETERA, AND ALL THE ENGINEERING, UM, YEAH, I WANTED TO LAY OUT A SCREENSHOT OF WHAT THAT ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE.
SO IN STEP FOUR, I LABELED AND HIGHLIGHTED THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY LINES WITH THE 80 FOOT DIMENSION, WHICH BRINGS IT BACK TO THE COLLECTOR ROAD REQUIREMENT.
UM, AND I HIGHLIGHTED THE, THE, THE SETBACK LINE, WHICH IS WHAT THE DEVELOPER THEN NEEDS TO START ESTABLISHING THEIR PARKING LOT AND THEIR BUILDING SETBACKS FROM THAT ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY LINE.
AND I WANTED TO SHOW YOU LIKE THE CART WAY WIDTHS AND KIND OF TO SHOW YOU LIKE HOW, HOW IT'S ALL WORKING TOGETHER.
SO THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY, UH, IT'S IMPORTANT AND IT'S, AND IT'S BASED OFF THE CLASSIFICATION OF A ROADWAY.
'CAUSE THAT HELPS, YOU KNOW, ESTABLISH AN AREA THAT CAN THEN BE UTILIZED FOR, UH, AUXILIARY LANES, LANES, SHOULDERS, AND NOT ONLY THE, THE ROADWAY PAVEMENT ITSELF, LIKE LANES AND SHOULDERS, BUT ALSO THE THINGS THAT GO ON THE OUTSIDE, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE THE GRASS BUFFER, THE SIDEWALKS AND TRAILS.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF A QUICK RUNDOWN AS TO HOW THE, THE, THE, THE RIGHT OF WAY MAP IS ACTUALLY USED AND HOW IT TRANSLATES TO A LAND DEVELOPMENT, UH, APPLICATION TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF HOW, HOW IT, HOW IT'S FUNCTIONING AND WHAT WE DO ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS.
SO, SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THERE, ANTHONY, IS THAT WHEN WE CLASSIFY A ROAD AS A COLLECTOR OR WHATEVER, THEN THIS, THIS CRITERIA COMES INTO PLAY.
SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE GOT THE ROADS CLASSIFIED CORRECTLY TO THE POINT THAT IF WE WANT TO TRY TO MANAGE DEVELOPMENT MM-HMM
THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT THE ROAD THAT FEEDS THROUGH THAT DEVELOPMENT, THAT WE'RE CLASSIFYING IT AS A COLLECTOR ROAD IN THIS CASE, SO THAT WE CAN MINIMIZE DEVELOPMENT.
OR, OR ESTABLISH THE RIGHT FOOTPRINT THAT YOU NEED FOR THAT ROADWAY BASED ON THE TRAFFIC THAT'S ON THERE BASED ON THE SPEEDS.
'CAUSE ONCE THE, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPMENT
[00:50:01]
COMES IN, THEY BRING MORE OBVIOUSLY, RIGHT? SO IF YOU HAVE THE CLASSIFICATION, IF IT'S NOT CLASSIFIED CORRECTLY TO BEGIN WITH, THEN YOU MIGHT NOT BE ESTABLISHING AN APPROPRIATE WIDTH REQUIREMENT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OR RIGHT OF WAY.UM, AND THEN YOU COME BACK IN LATER AND YOU REALIZE, OKAY, WELL THIS, IF, IF THE ROAD'S CLASSIFIED WRONG, WE HAD IT AS A, YOU KNOW, A FEEDER THAT NEEDED, UM, 60 FOOT RIGHT AWAY, BUT WE REALLY SHOULD HAVE CLASSIFIED THIS THING AS A COLLECTOR BECAUSE NOW WE'VE SHORT, WE HAVEN'T PLANNED CORRECTLY, NOW WE NEED TO ESTABLISH MORE.
BUT THE, YOU KNOW, THE, IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, THE, YOU KNOW, THE DEVELOPER SAYING, WELL, YOU KNOW, ACCORDING TO YOUR, ACCORDING TO YOUR ORDINANCES, IT'S CLASSIFIED AS X.
SO WE'VE ESTABLISHED OUR SETBACKS AND ET CETERA OFF OF WHAT YOU'VE ESTABLISHED.
YOU KNOW, SO IT'S ANOTHER WAY OF CONTROLLING DEVELOPMENT IF BY USING THE ROADWAYS.
AND TO HELP ESTABLISH, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, YOU KNOW, IF IT STARTS TO ULTIMATELY TIE INTO, YOU KNOW, TRAIL NETWORKS AND THINGS THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT NATURE AND YOUR, IN YOUR LANE CONFIGURATIONS THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE ULTIMATELY WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT COMES IN, UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE ROADWAY REALIGNMENT, UH, ALONG HOPWOOD ROAD.
SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T, IF YOU DON'T ESTABLISH SUFFICIENT RIGHT OF WAY, UM, AND CLASSIFY THAT ROAD CORRECTLY, IF YOU DID IT TOO NARROW AND NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT REALIGNMENT, NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NOT YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE AN ESTABLISHED SUFFICIENT RIGHT OF WAY, NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PRIVATE PROPERTY, UM, YOU KNOW, GET GETTING ONTO, YOU KNOW, DIS DISCUSSING WITH PRIVATE PROPERTY, UH, ACQUISITIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
RIGHT? SO THAT'S KIND OF THE IMPORTANCE OF ESTABLISHING THE, THE APPROPRIATE, UM, CLASSIFICATION OF ROADWAY TO KIND OF HELP WITH THE PLANNING AND, AND, AND ENSURING FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT AND IMPACT.
I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK, AT LEAST FROM MY CASE, I'LL, I'LL ADMIT THAT I DON'T THINK I FULLY UNDERSTOOD THAT TYPE DAY.
WHAT I NEVER, I FULLY UNDERSTOOD THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT ROADWAY CLASSIFICATION AND HOW YOU CAN CONTROL THE DEVELOPMENT THROUGH THAT PRO AND ONE WAY OF TRYING TO CONTROL DEVELOPMENT THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
AND THAT, YOU KNOW, SO, YOU KNOW, AS, AS I, WE'VE LISTENED AND AS WE'VE, WE'VE, WE WENT THROUGH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THOSE QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAD, YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF, WE WERE, WE WERE FOCUSED ON THE, THE DEFINITIONS AND THE, UH, WHAT IT MEANS AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF.
BUT WHAT I STARTED TO REALIZE IS A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS I THINK IS BECAUSE OF THIS 'CAUSE MAYBE WE DIDN'T ESTABLISH LIKE HOW IT'S ACTUALLY USED TO KIND OF HELP UNDERSTAND WHY YEP.
THEN THE MAP AND ALL THAT STUFF, AND THE DEFINITIONS MAP.
SO, SO IF WE START WITH ONE OF THE, LIKE, JEFF COMES BACK AND HE SAYS, WE'RE GONNA START WITH THE, THE SQUARE, OUR COLA, FOR INSTANCE.
WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE LOOKING AT THE ROADS THAT ARE GOING THROUGH THAT, THAT AREA TO BE SURE THAT WE HAVE 'EM CLASSIFIED CORRECTLY TO THE BEST OF OUR RIGHT ABILITY SO THAT IT HELPS CONTROL THE WHOLE SITUATION.
SO THAT, SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE IDEA.
UM, SO THE TRANSITION THEN TO THE NEXT, THE WAY I KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WANTED TO WALK IT THROUGH IS TO GO THROUGH THAT STEP TO UNDERSTAND THAT PART OF IT, AND THEN BE BEFORE YOU, CAN I JUST ASK ANOTHER QUICK CLARIFYING QUESTION HERE? SO, WHEN, YOU KNOW, A, A DEVELOPER IS DEVELOPING LAND THAT ABUTS A ROAD THAT IS NOT BUILT TO ITS CURRENT CLASSIFICATION, UH, THEIR RIGHT OF THEIR DEVELOPABLE LAND GETS SHRUNK, RIGHT? MM-HMM
BECAUSE THE RIGHT OF WAY EXPANDS IN.
WHO THOUGH PAYS FOR THE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED THE GRASS BUFFER, THE TRAIL, THE ROAD WIDENING, ET CETERA.
IS THAT PART OF A IMPACT FEE OR HOW'S THAT WITH ANY DEVELOPMENT? THERE'S, THERE'S REQUIREMENTS TO WIDEN THE ROAD AND TO INSTALL CURB AND SIDEWALK ON ALL ROADS.
UM, SO THAT BURDEN, THE COST BURDEN IS PUT ON THE DEVELOPER.
NOW, IF IT'S AN OFFSITE IMPROVEMENT, IF WE SAY, WELL, WE'D REALLY LIKE YOU TO WIDEN DOWN ANOTHER FOUR HOUSES BECAUSE WE'RE NEVER GONNA GET TO IT, WE'D LIKE YOU TO DO THAT.
THAT SORT OF HAS TO GET NEGOTIATED AS AN IMPACT FEE VERSUS DOING OUTTA THE KINDNESS OF THE HEARTS.
BUT, BUT COMMONWEALTH LAW SAYS YOU CAN ONLY REQUIRE THEM TO IMPROVE THEIR PROPERTY IN WHERE THEY'RE DOING THEIR DEVELOPMENT, THEIR FOOTPRINT.
SO WHEN WE NEGOTIATE OTHER THINGS, THERE'S USUALLY TRADE OFFS.
THERE'S TRAILS, SOMETIMES IT'S A WAIVER OF WIDENING OR A WAIVER OF CURBS, A WAIVER, A SIDEWALK ON ONE SIDE, SIDEWALK ON ONE SIDE, A TRAIL VERSUS A SIDEWALK.
A TRAIL IS USUALLY A LITTLE BIT WIDER, BUT FARTHER OFF DOESN'T REQUIRE THE CURBING.
IT'S SORT OF A NEGOTIATED PROCESS AS WE GO THROUGH THE WHOLE LAND DEVELOPMENT PORTION OF IT.
BUT THAT'S RELEVANT FOR PRESUMABLY ALL THE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT A TRAIL ALONG THIS STRETCH OF HIGHWAY OR ROAD RATHER, IT HAS TO BE CLASSIFIED.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I DIDN'T LOOK INTO, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE ELEMENTS OF AN ARTERIAL OR COLLECTOR ARE HERE, BUT PRESUMABLY THEY HAVE DIFFERENT, UM, DIFFERENT WIDTHS OF DIFFERENT WIDTHS AND LAYOUTS AND THAT SORT OF A THING.
AND WHAT THAT DOES LIKE WITH THE OFFICIAL MAP IS THAT ALLOWS US, WHEN WE GO INTO AN INITIAL MEETING WITH A DEVELOPER, WE SAY, WELL, THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE
[00:55:01]
REQUIRED TO DO AND THIS IS WHAT, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN'T COME IN AND GO, WELL, I'M JUST NOT GONNA IMPROVE THAT ROAD.THIS BY LAW WILL REQUIRE THEM TO DO THAT.
AND, AND WHICH GOES BACK TO THAT LEWIS ROAD.
SAME THING WITH, WITH IDENTIFYING TRAILS AND THINGS LIKE THAT MM-HMM
AND AN EXAMPLE, I THINK BY WHERE I LIVE, IF YOU GUYS DRIVE DOWN TO EGYPT RIGHT, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S LIKE A POCKMARK OF SIDEWALKS.
BECAUSE NOT ALL OF THE LAND HAS BEEN DEVELOPED IT, BUT PRESUMABLY YOU'VE ALREADY CLASSIFIED.
WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WAIVERS, JEFF.
UH, SO YOU MIGHT WAVE CURVE REQUIREMENT OR, OR PAYMENT REQUIREMENT, BUT THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY WOULD STILL YES.
THE TOWNSHIP IS STILL OFFERED DEDICATION OF THE RIGHT OF WAY.
OF, OF WHATEVER RIGHT OF WAY IS IN THERE.
AND SINCE JOE'S NOT HERE, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA TELL THE STORY THIS WAY.
THE TOWNSHIP HAS ALWAYS NEGOTIATED A FEE IN LIEU OF WAIVERS THAT WHEN THERE'S A CERTAIN WAIVER OF WIDENING OR CURBING OR SIDEWALK, WHEN THEY'RE GRANTED THAT WAIVER, THE, THE DEVELOPER USUALLY GIVES US A FEE IN LIEU OF, JOE HAS A STANCE, AND I, I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY SO I DON'T KNOW, BUT HIS STANCE IS THAT WE REALLY CAN'T DO THAT.
AND YOU KNOW, WE, HE'S VERY HESITANT TO DO IT IN CERTAIN THINGS, BUT WE'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR SO LONG, IT WAS USED TO BE A HUNDRED PERCENT WHERE WHATEVER THE SIDEWALK COST YOU WAS WHAT YOU'RE GONNA GIVE TO US, WHICH I REALLY WISH WE WOULD'VE PUT IN A SEPARATE FUND AND WE'D HAVE A WHOLE BIG TRAIL FUND NOW.
BUT THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY.
UM,
BUT THAT'S WHAT, HOW THE TOWNSHIP HAS OPERATED.
IT SEEMS FAIR, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THE LEGAL'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT BUDGET.
SOMETIMES COMMON SENSE AND LEGAL DON'T MATCH.
IF THE TOWNSHIP EVER DECIDED TO, I'M SORRY ANDY, NOT TO STEP, BUT IF THE TOWNSHIP EVER DECIDED TO WIDEN TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THE RIGHT OF WAY, YEAH.
WE WOULD HAVE TO PAY FAIR MARKET VALUE FOR THAT PROPERTY, WHETHER IT WAS THE PROPERTY TO THE OLD RIGHT OF WAY OR TO THE NEW RIGHT OF WAY.
WE HAVE TO PAY FAIR MARKET VALUE.
WHICH IS WHY WHEN WE GO THROUGH LAND DEVELOPMENT, WE ASK THAT ALL PROPERTIES DEDICATED TO US SO THAT WHEN, AND IF WE DECIDE TO WIDEN A ROAD, WE DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
BUT AS WE ALL KNOW IN THIS TOWNSHIP, THERE'S LOTS OF HOUSES THAT ARE RIGHT UP ON THE ROAD, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT ARE FAIRLY CLOSE.
THAT IF WE WERE TO EVER WIDEN, LET'S SAY, UM, 29 BY YOUR HOUSE, YOUR HOUSE IS FAIRLY CLOSE TO THE PROP TO THE FRONT TO 29.
AND WE WOULD HAVE TO PAY FAIR MARKET VALUE TO PUT IT THAT ROAD IN THERE AND YOU WOULD FIGHT US ON IT.
'CAUSE YOU DON'T WANT THAT AS YOUR FRONT PORCH
BUT I WOULD ACTUALLY LOVE TO EXTEND THE SIDEWALK THAT ENDS THERE.
WELL, AND THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT BECAUSE, UM, PART OF WHAT CAN GO ON THE OFFICIAL MAP ARE TRAILS AND SIDEWALK IMPROVEMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT, THAT WHERE WE WANT TO PUT THOSE IMPROVEMENTS IN THE FUTURE, YOU KNOW, AND WHAT IT DOES, IT GUIDES THIS MAP AND, AND MY OFFICIAL MAP GUIDES THE TOWNSHIP AND SORT OF DIRECTS THE SUPERVISORS ON WHERE THE MONEY SHOULD GO.
SO NEXT YEAR WHEN WE SIT DOWN AND WE HAVE OUR BUDGET MEETING, I CAN PLOP THIS MAP IN FRONT OF 'EM AND GO PICK A ROAD IMPROVEMENT, PICK SOME SIDEWALKS AND GIVE ME SOME MONEY.
IF THEY DON'T, THEN WE'RE BACK ASKING NEXT YEAR.
AND I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE, LIKE THE VISUAL IS ALWAYS THE BEST THING TO SEE, RIGHT? LIKE A MAP SHOWING EVERYTHING.
'CAUSE THIS IS ALL SPREAD AROUND IN TEXT DOCUMENTS RIGHT NOW, LIKE AN ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION PLAN, AN ACT 2 0 9 PLAN.
UH, SO SEEING IT ALL TOGETHER ON THE OFFICIAL MAP IS LIKE, YOU KNOW, IS CERTAINLY HELPFUL FOR, NOT ONLY FOR THE TOWNSHIP RIGHT, BUT ALSO FOR A DEVELOPER, I GUESS, TO SEE WHAT'S THERE.
THIS DOES HELP DEVELOPERS TOO.
I MEAN, BECAUSE IT, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY PHONE CALLS I GET FROM DEVELOPERS SAYING, OKAY, WHAT'S THE COST FOR THIS AND WHAT'S THE COST FOR THAT? AS THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS OF EVEN JUST STARTING, STARTING TO LOOK AT A PIECE OF PROPERTY BECAUSE THEY WANNA KNOW WHAT ALL THEY, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THEY HAVE SOME VERY FANCY SPREADSHEET THAT, THAT LAYS IT ALL OUT.
SO THE, THE NEXT THING I WANTED TO, TO GO TO IS, UH, THE OTHER HANDOUT THAT I HAVE IS THE, OR THE ORIGINAL MAP WITH, UH, SO IT'S THE, IT'S THE, UM, 20, WAS IT 2010 MAP? I GUESS IT IS.
UM, WITH THE, UH, HIGHLIGHTS, RIGHT? AND IT HAS THE SEVEN, THE SEVEN AR SEVEN ROADS IDENTIFIED FOR CHANGES.
THAT'S THE ONE, NOT THE COLOR ONE, THE BLACK AND WHITE WITH, WITH THE CERTAIN SEGMENTS COLORED.
SO THE ORANGE, RED, PURPLE, YELLOW, GREEN, BLUE, AND CYAN.
SO THESE, SO THIS MAP, SO THIS IS THE EXISTING RIGHT OF WAY MAP THAT, THAT THE OFFICIAL RIGHT OF WAY MAP TODAY.
UH, IT'S THE SAME ONE THAT JERRY HIGHLIGHTED TO KIND OF VISUALIZE THINGS BETTER.
[01:00:01]
SO, UM, I WANTED TO TO, TO USE THIS ONE BECAUSE THE COMP PLAN, AS WE, AS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, RECOMMENDED SEVEN SPECIFIC ROADWAYS FOR A CLASSIFICATION CHANGE.UM, DOESN'T MEAN AS WE, AS JEFF AND I DISCUSSED, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE COMP PLAN THAT IT WAS A MUST DO.
BUT I WANTED TO KIND OF, I, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE EASIER IF, IF I COULD SHOW THEM GRAPHICALLY ON THE OLD MAP, UM, RATHER THAN, YOU KNOW, IN A CHART LIKE IT WAS IN THE COMP PLAN.
SO WE CAN KIND OF GO THROUGH AND I CAN SHOW YOU WHICH ONES THOSE WERE.
SO STARTING AT THE TOP OF THE MAP, NUMBER ONE RIDGE PIKE, UM, SO THE COMP PLAN HAD RECOMMENDED, SO CURRENTLY RIDGE PIKE IS CLASSIFIED AS A COLLECTOR ROAD, UM, WHICH HAS AN 80 FOOT ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY REQUIREMENT.
AND BASED ON MONTGOMERY COUNTY'S ROADWAY CLASSIFICATIONS AND PEN DOTS TO KIND OF SYNC THEM UP, WE WERE RECOMMENDING TO CHANGE THE COLLECTOR DESIGNATION TO AN ARTERIAL.
UM, WHICH AS YOU CAN SEE, HAS A A HUNDRED FOOT RIGHT OF WAY.
SO THERE'S A, THERE'S A 20 FOOT DIFFERENCE.
UM, SO, AND IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT THE GRAPHIC, UM, THE, THE, THE LEFT SIDE, THE, THE CLOSEST, THE, THE RICH PIKE SIDE CLOSEST TO TOWNSHIP LINE ALREADY HAS LIKE THAT THICKER, THERE'S A WIDER LINE ALREADY THAT THAT'S ESTABLISHING A HUNDRED FOOT ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY.
THAT'S THE AREA WHERE ALL THE SHOPPING CENTERS ARE AND THE ROADWAYS GETTING BIGGER, ET CETERA.
SO WE'RE ALREADY IN THE CURRENT MAP MAKING AN EXCEPTION AND SAYING, HEY, WE WANT, WE NEED A HUNDRED FOOT IN THIS AREA.
UM, THE, THE A DT, SO THE, THE AVERAGE TRAFFIC THAT YOU SEE ON A DAILY BASIS ALONG RIDGE PIKE, UM, WAS ANYWHERE FROM FIVE TO, TO ALMOST 13,000 CARS A DAY.
UM, WHICH CERTAINLY FITS MORE INTO THE ARTERIAL CLASSIFICATION.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THAT THIS, THE PENDO ALREADY LINES IT UP THAT WAY, UM, WE ALREADY HAD A PORTION ALREADY ESTABLISHED AT A WIDER RIGHT OF WAY.
OUR THOUGHT WAS TO JUST WHAT WE THOUGHT WOULD MAKE PRACTICAL SENSE AS JUST DESIGNATING THAT AS AN ARTERIAL.
UM, SO THAT ANY OF THE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, LIKE WHAT USED TO BE THE HOSPITAL, I GUESS MM-HMM
BUT THOSE PARCELS THAT ARE THERE, SO, SO BETWEEN LIDELL AND GREENWOOD, WHICH ISN'T DEVELOPED RIGHT NOW.
THERE'S A LOT OF AREA YOU'RE SAYING THAT WOULD BE WHERE WE WOULD MAKE THAT NOW AN ARTERIAL SO THAT WE WIDEN IT TO 80 FEET.
THE ENTIRE, THE ENTIRE, THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF RIDGE WOULD BE FROM TOWNSHIP.
I MEAN, THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE, AND AND FROM WHERE TARGET IS, THAT'S ALREADY RIGHT.
SO THEN, SO IT'S RIGHT AROUND LIDLE, THERE IS WHERE CUTS BACK DOWN TO, UH, ALL THE WAY UP TO GREENWOOD AND THEN THE REST OF IT GOES INTO TRAP.
AND, AND JUST FOR CLARITY, IT'S NOT US THAT'S WIDENING IT.
IT'S IF A PROPERTY DEVELOPED GOT YES.
WHAT I SAY, I MEAN, I I'M SURE YOU UNDERSTOOD THAT, BUT YES, WE'RE BEING RECORDED.
SO I USE THE ENGLISH PROPER ENGLISH US YEAH.
OR IS IT THE PROPERTY, THE GLOBAL, IT'S WHATEVER THE ROYAL WE, THE ROYAL WE
UM, I THINK, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S THE AREA YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
SO, SO ANYBODY WANTED TO DEVELOP AN THERE, LIKE, LIKE SAY IT WAS GONNA BE AUTOZONE AT ONE TIME AND RIGHT.
A COUPLE OTHER, THEY, THEY WOULD HAVE TO WIDEN THAT THEY WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO WIDEN TO THAT FULLER EXTENT TO THEIR FOOTPRINT, TO YEAH.
TO THAT FULLER EXTENT THE, THE 20 FOOT WIDER THAN IS CURRENT.
THAN, THAN IF THEY CAME IN TOMORROW THAT THEY WOULD'VE TO WIDEN TO THE, TO THE WIDER EXTENT WHEN THEY DEVELOP THEIR PROPERTY.
SO, SO SOMEBODY LIKE AUTOZONE WANTS TO COME IN THERE ON RIDGE MM-HMM
THAT'S A SMALL, THAT'S A SMALL STORE, RIGHT? RIGHT.
THEY'RE ONLY GONNA HAVE TO WIDEN THEIR FOOTPRINT.
SO EVERYBODY THAT WE, IF THERE'S MULTIPLE AUTO ZONES RIGHT, IT'S GONNA BE PIECEMEALED UP TO GREENWOOD.
BUT WHICH IS BASICALLY THE WAY YOU GET IT FOR FREE.
OTHERWISE, OTHERWISE WE PAY FOR IT.
BUT I MEAN, IT COULD BE, IT COULD BE, AGAIN, IT COULD, YOU KNOW, IT COULD JUST, COULD BE, IT'S LIKE THE SIDEWALKS, RIGHT? YEAH.
YOU GOT A SIDEWALK, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE A SIDEWALK, THEN YOU GOT A SIDEWALK YOU DON'T HAVE THAT'S RIGHT.
WELL, AND, AND WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT RIDGE PIKE HERE IN A LITTLE BIT AND, AND SORT OF THIS PART, YOU KNOW, SORT OF ROLLS INTO THAT PART, RIGHT.
BUT, UM, YEAH, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT, YES, THAT'S GENERALLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.
HOW I THINK RIDGE PIKE IS GONNA DEVELOP IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT WHEN WE GET TO THAT ZONING IN A MINUTE.
DO THE CLASSIFICATIONS ALSO COME WITH, UM, BEYOND JUST THE, THE FOOT REQUIREMENT OF THE RIGHT OF WAY? UM, I'M FORGETTING THE CORRECT TRANSPORTATION TERM, BUT LIKE A NO, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT HAS TO BE A HUNDRED FEET AND FOUR OF THOSE LANES HAVE TO BE FOR VEHICULAR TRAVEL, BUT YOU HAVE TO BUILD A SIDEWALK AND, YOU KNOW, THERE, YOU KNOW, LIKE DOES IT GET INTO THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL? OR IS IT LITERALLY, IS IT JUST THE WIDTH? IT'S THE, IT'S THE WIDTH OF THE, THE ROADWAY WIDTH, UH, THE HALF WIDTH, I GUESS ON THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE AND, AND THE RIGHT OF WAY WIDTH THE SET, THE REST OF THE, THE, THE STREET SECTION DESIGN SECTION AND THE TOWNSHIP CODE, THE SAL THAT DISCUSSES
[01:05:01]
THE, THE BUFFERS, THE SIDEWALK WIDTHS.SO I GUESS THE REASON I'M ASKING IS, YOU KNOW, AS WE'RE CONSIDERING, YOU KNOW, YOU INCREASING THE RIGHT OF WAY WITH, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, DOES THAT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN JUST ROADS OR ARE YOU ALSO GETTING, YOU KNOW, A SIDEWALK AND THAT FITS INTO THE TRAIL PLAN, ET CETERA? DOES THAT YEAH, THOSE, THOSE WOULD COME AS PART OF THOSE WOULD FIT WITHIN THE SPACE, I GUESS AGAIN, THAT'S WHERE YOU GET HALF A SIDEWALK AND THEN THOSE SIDEWALK YEAH.
A SIDEWALK, BUT IT'S THE RIGHT OF WAY.
AND AS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT, THEY AS, AND THE ORDINANCES SPECIFY SIDEWALK, SIDEWALK REQUIREMENTS SIDEWALK.
IN ADDITION TO THE RIGHT OF WAY, THE, THE ROADWAY, THE ROADWAY ITSELF, AND THOSE, THOSE, UH, THAT ORDINANCE IS TIED TO THE CLASSIFICATION OF THE ROAD.
SO IT MIGHT SAY, AN ARTERIAL NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE THIS, A COLLECTOR NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE THIS.
THE WAY I SORT OF LOOK AT NORMAL ROADS, AND I, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS QUITE ACCURATE, BUT I SORT OF LOOK AT, WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN A ROAD AND YOU LOOK AT THE BACK EDGE OF THE SIDEWALK, THAT SORT OF DEFINES THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY.
AND THEN THE CART WAY IS JUST THE ROAD WIDTH FROM CURB TO CURB.
SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EVERYTHING FROM THE BACK EDGE OF SIDEWALK TO THE BACK EDGE OF SIDEWALK ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ROAD.
IT MIGHT NOT ENGINEER MIND, THAT'S HOW I'VE WORKED IT OUT.
BUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TRAILS AND SIDEWALKS, IT'S NOT TIED TO THE ROAD CLASSIFICATION.
IN THE ORDINANCE, THE WAY IT'S THE ORDINANCE, RIGHT.
THE ORDINANCE GIVES YOU THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY AND THE PAVING WIDTH MM-HMM
THE SIDEWALK AND THE CURVE ARE DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF THE ORDINANCE, AND THEY APPLY TO EVERY ROAD CLASSIFICATION ACROSS THE BOARD.
SO EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE, THEY LOOK TO BE TIED TOGETHER, THEY'RE REALLY NOT, IN TERMS OF THE ORDINANCES, IN OTHER WORDS, THEY VARY.
THEY DON'T VARY BECAUSE THE RIGHT OF WAY CHANGES.
THE SIDEWALKS OR THE SIDEWALK.
BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT THAT LIKE IF IT'S A FEEDER ROAD, YOU GET A SIDEWALK AND IT'S ARTERIAL ROAD, YOU GET A TRAIN.
I, TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, EVEN THOUGH THEY, THEY SEEM TO BE TIED, THEY'RE REALLY NOT MM-HMM
DIFFERENT PIECES OF THE PUZZLE, I GUESS.
SO THAT, THAT'S, UH, SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE AREAS THAT WERE IDENTIFIED AS A CHANGE.
THE SECOND ONE, IF YOU GO TO THE OPPOSITE END TO THE SOUTH, SOUTHEAST OR SOUTHWEST, SORRY, UH, NUMBER TWO, THE ROUTE ONE 13, THAT'S WHAT'S HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW ON THE MAP.
UM, THAT ONE WAS RECOMMENDED TO CHANGE FROM A COLLECTOR, YOU KNOW, SIMILARLY FROM A COLLECTOR 80 FOOT TO AN ARTERIAL A HUNDRED FOOT.
AND, YOU KNOW, TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THE, THE, THE, UH, AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC ON A DAILY BASIS ON THAT ROAD, ANYWHERE FROM 5,000 TO 10,000.
UM, SO AGAIN, IT'S IN, IT'S IN LINE WITHIN WHY PENDOT DESIGNATES IT AS AN ARTERIAL.
UM, SO OUR THOUGHT WAS, YOU KNOW, LET'S, LET'S CHANGE THE CLASSIFICATION ON THE TOWNSHIP RIGHT AWAY MAP TO BE CONSISTENT.
AND IT, AND IT MAKES SENSE FROM THE, YEAH.
FROM THE FOOTPRINT AND THE SPEEDS AND EVERYTHING.
NOW ALL OF THIS BEING SAID, I DO WANT TO SAY THAT THERE, JUST BECAUSE THE TOWNSHIP HAS IT AS AN ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY ON THEIR MAP, DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE'RE REQUIRED TO WIDEN IT TO THAT EXTENT.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS PROBABLY BEFORE YOUR TIME IN THE TOWNSHIP, KEVIN, BUT MENNONITE ROAD FROM ONE 13 GOING TOWARDS WHEN IT CHANGES TO OUR COLA ROAD AT WHITE SPRINGS FARM, AND FROM THE ONE 13 INTERSECTION GOING WEST INTO WE INTO PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER, THAT ROAD USED TO BE A LOT WIDER.
AT ONE POINT, WHEN WE WERE REPAVING IT, WE SORT OF LOOKED AT IT AND SAID, WE DON'T REALLY NEED TWO EASTBOUND LANES, UH, WHICH WAS THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE ROAD.
LET'S KEEP THE FUNCTIONAL CLASSIFICATION THE SAME, BUT LET'S PUT IT ON A ROAD DIET.
WE MOVED THE CURB OUT, I DON'T KNOW, 5, 8, 10 FEET, PUT A TRAIL IN AND NARROWED THAT ROAD DOWN BECAUSE IT, FOR WHAT THAT ROAD BECAME, IT WAS JUST TOO MUCH OF A SPEEDWAY AND WE DIDN'T WANT THAT.
SO JUST BECAUSE WE PUT ON THERE THAT, THAT THIS IS WHAT THE REQUIREMENT IS, DOESN'T MEAN THAT IN AFTER SEEING TRAFFIC IN THERE AND AFTER WHATEVER ELSE, WE CAN'T GO BACK IN AND PUT SOMETHING IN WHAT THEY CALL A ROAD DIET MM-HMM
AND, AND NARROW THAT BACK DOWN AT TOWNSHIP EXPENSE.
WE'RE NOT GONNA GET DEVELOPERS TO PAY FOR THAT.
BUT LET'S JUST SAY A ROAD THAT HAS A REG A REGULAR LIFE OF 20 YEARS, IF IN THAT 20 YEARS WE SORT OF IDENTIFY THAT, EH, THIS ROAD IS JUST TOO WIDE, WE CAN NARROW IT WITHOUT CREATING ANY SORT OF LEGAL ISSUES OR PROBLEMS. YEAH.
TO, AND TO THAT POINT, THE, THE, GOING BACK TO THAT FIRST SHEET THAT I HAD, JEFF IS ACTUALLY A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE SAME THING YOU MENTIONED.
'CAUSE SECTION NUMBER FOUR OR SECTION NUMBER FOUR, THAT FIRST SHEET SHOWS, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED A, A 40 FOOT MINIMUM PAVEMENT
[01:10:01]
WIDTH WAS THE REQUIREMENT.BUT AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE, IN THE HIGHLIGHTED SECTION RIGHT NEXT TO THE 80 FOOT DIMENSION FOR THE, UH, ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY, THE CURB TO CURB IS 33 FEET.
SO IT ACTUALLY WAS LESS THAN 40.
AND THAT WAS THE CASE BECAUSE WE REALIZED WHAT WAS HAPPENING ALONG LONG WOOD.
WE ANALYZED THE, THE IMPACTS AND WE SAID, WELL, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO HAVE IT THAT WIDE IN THIS AREA.
WE PROBABLY DON'T WANT IT THAT WIDE 'CAUSE IT INTRODUCES MORE SPEEDING AND THINGS.
SO THESE ARE LIKE, YOU, YOU HAVE THE ESTABLISHED CRITERIA, BUT THEN YOU DIVE IN ON A CASE BY CASE TO JEFF'S POINT.
AND SOMETIMES IT MAKES SENSE, SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T.
THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE DETAILS I GUESS.
BUT, BUT GETTING THE, GETTING THE INITIAL, GETTING THE CLASSIFICATION AND THE, AND THE GENERAL WITH CORRECT IS, IS THE STARTING POINT THAT WE WANT MAKE SURE THAT THE TOWNSHIP'S STARTING ON THE RIGHT FOOT BASICALLY.
AND I THINK TO BE TOTALLY CANDID, THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS IS BECAUSE I'M, I'M WAITING FOR THE EGYPT ROAD DISCUSSION, PARTICULARLY THE PART, UH, THAT LIKE IN BETWEEN 29 AND MEADOW VIEW, YOU HAVE A LOT OF REALLY OLD SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES THAT, UM, ARE PRETTY CLOSE TO THE ROAD MM-HMM
AND IN MANY WAYS THE FACT THAT IT'S JUST TWO LANES THERE.
AND THEN 29 IS, AND I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC, SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE EXACT SOLUTION IS, BUT IT, IT SLOWS YOU DOWN TO THE CHOKE POINT OF THE VILLAGE PRESERVATION DIS DISTRICT ESSENTIALLY.
UM, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WALK UP AND DOWN THERE.
I KNOW THE DELI OWNER, MONTCLAIR DELI REALLY WANTS THERE TO BE ANOTHER BLOCK CONNECTING HER DELI TO PHOENIXVILLE MM-HMM
UM, SO ANYWAY, I WAS, IF EGYPT ROAD IN THAT VERY FIRST PART THAT BECOMES 29, IT JUST LOOKS A LOT DIFFERENT.
HOW WOULD YOU DO THAT FROM THE DELI TO PHOENIXVILLE? HOW WOULD YOU PUT A SIDE WITH THE RAILROAD THING? THERE'S, THERE'S A SIDEWALK ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL THE LAST BLOCK BY THE DELI.
IT GOES RIGHT UNDERNEATH THE RAILROAD.
THERE IS A SIDEWALK UNDERNEATH THE RAILROAD.
I'D WALK MY KIDS TO FIRST FRIDAY THERE.
BUT THERE'S THIS ONE LITTLE BLOCK.
YOU CAN'T, CERTAINLY CAN'T WIDE IT.
AND I WOULDN'T, THAT'S MY POINT.
YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T BETWEEN TRACE AND THE DELI
WELL, AND IF YOU KNOW OF AREAS LIKE THAT, SEND ME AN EMAIL OR WHEN WE PUT THE NEXT MAP OUT, LET'S PULL THOSE OUT AND PUT THEM IN THE OFFICIAL MAP.
YOU KNOW, PUTTING A ONE BLOCK OF SIDEWALK IN ISN'T A HUGE EXPENSE.
IT'S SOMETHING IN THE TOWNSHIP.
IF THEY CAN GET A ROTATING FUND AND PUT SOME MONEY ASIDE THAT WE CAN IDENTIFY ONE OF THOSE PER YEAR, A COUPLE OF THOSE PER YEAR AND PUT THEM IN.
AND I THINK IN AREAS LIKE WHERE YOU LIVE IN THE, IN THE OAKS AREA, COMPLETING THE SIDEWALK NETWORK MAKES SENSE.
I MEAN, IT'S TWO PATCHWORK DOWN THERE.
I KNOW THERE'S SOME PEOPLE IN OAKS WHO WOULD SAY, NO, NO, I DON'T WANT SIDEWALKS IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE.
THAT'S ALWAYS GONNA BE THE CHALLENGE
BUT I THINK HAVING PEOPLE ON THE GROUND THAT LIVE RIGHT THERE AND CAN SAY, NO, IT REALLY MAKES SENSE TO CONNECT THIS HERE.
CAN WE FIND $30,000 TO DO THAT? SOME THINGS LIKE THAT ARE, ARE FEASIBLE TO DO ONCE WE GET THEM ON A MAP SAYING THAT WE WANT DO THAT.
AND TO, TO THAT POINT, IF I COULD, 'CAUSE I, I ALWAYS LIKE TO PLUG THIS JEFF 'CAUSE IT TIES INTO THAT VERY THING, IS THE ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION PLAN THAT'S ON THE TOWNSHIP WEBSITE THAT HAS IDENTIFIED, LIKE EGYPT ROAD IS, ONE OF THEM HAS IDENTIFIED FIVE, I THINK IT WAS PRIORITY LOCATIONS FOR SIDEWALK AND TRAIL IMPROVEMENTS.
UH, AND WHEN LAND DEVELOPMENT COMES IN, YOU KNOW, IT'S OFTEN A FORGOTTEN ABOUT DOCUMENT.
WE DON'T FORGET ABOUT IT, NEITHER DOES JEFF.
BUT EVERY TIME THE DEVELOPMENT COMES IN, WE LOOK AT THAT MAP AND SAY, OKAY, WHAT DID WE HAVE HERE? AND DOES THIS DEVELOPMENT CONTRIBUTE OR DO THEY CONNECT? YOU KNOW, SO I WOULD SAY TO YOUR, TO YOUR POINT, TAKE A LOOK FOR EACH GROWTH, ESPECIALLY AS YOU MENTIONED IT, IF YOU LOOK AT, IF YOU JUST GO ON THE, THE WEBSITE AND JUST SEARCH ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION PLAN, IT'LL POP UP.
JEFF HAS THE ADOPTED VERSION ON THE LINKED UP THERE AND IT HAS THE PRIORITY LOCATIONS THAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO PLAN FOR IN THE TOWNSHIP.
AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY IN THE, THE CAP IMPROVEMENT CHART OF THE COMP PLAN THAT WE ADOPTED TOO.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO TIE IT ALL TOGETHER AS BEST WE CAN.
AND I, I, THIS IS HOMEWORK FOR ME, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO COMPARE THE ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION CORRIDORS ESSENTIALLY WITH THE CLASSIFICATION, UH, REVISIONS YOU'RE, YOU'RE PROPOSING HERE, BECAUSE I THINK WHAT I'M, I'M THINKING OF THE CLASSIFICATION OR THE RECLASSIFICATIONS THAT I'M TRYING TO VISUALIZE, YOU KNOW, IN THAT AREA, DOES IT LOOK LIKE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, PROVIDENCE TOWN TOWNSHIP CENTER? I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE DEVELOPMENT OR MOVIE TAVERN IS, RIGHT? YEP.
OR DOES IT LOOK LIKE THE PARTS OF EGYPT THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN BUILT OUT TO ADD, YOU KNOW, FOUR LANES MM-HMM
AND THE, IT LOOKS DIFFERENT, BUT IT MIGHT BE THE SAME WIDTH, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? YEP.
AND THOSE, THOSE ARE THE THINGS, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF THE CLASSIFICATION AND, AND HOW THE WITS ARE ESTABLISHED, YOU KNOW, WE, WE TRY TO LOOK AT THAT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS TO SEE WHAT MAKES SENSE.
'CAUSE YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES FOUR LANES DOESN'T
[01:15:01]
NECESSARILY ALWAYS MAKE SENSE EVEN THOUGH, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, THE, THE SDO MAY CALL FOR IT ALONG THE STRETCH 'CAUSE IT'S LOOKING AT A STRETCH AS A WHOLE.BUT, YOU KNOW, THE INDIVIDUAL COMPONENTS, SOMETIMES THEY DON'T ALWAYS FIT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE LARGER SCALE I GUESS.
SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO DIVE IN A LITTLE DEEPER.
SO WE TRY TO BE MINDFUL OF THE VERY THINGS THAT YOU TALK ABOUT.
'CAUSE SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
I MEAN, YOU LOOK AT IT NOW, ESPECIALLY POST COVID, THERE'S A LOT OF UNUSABLE, UH, YOU KNOW, LIKE RIGHT TURN LANES THAT PROBABLY DON'T NEED TO BE THERE ANYMORE BECAUSE OF THE WORK FROM HOME.
SO YEAH, WE TRY TO BE MORE SENSITIVE TO THAT.
UM, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, AS, AS WE LOOK AT THESE THINGS NOW, YOU KNOW, UM, THESE TOO, WHAT'S THAT PENDOT WEIGHING INTO THESE YEAH.
UH, SO THEN THE, THE THIRD ONE WE'RE ALMOST AT EGYPT, BUT THE THIRD ONE IS BLACKROCK ROAD.
UM, SO THAT'S, AGAIN, THAT WAS A RECOMMENDED CHANGE FROM A COLLECTOR TO ARTERIAL.
UH, YOU KNOW, PENTA HAS IT CLASSIFIED THAT WAY? UM, THE, THE AVERAGE TRAFFIC 7,500 TO 10,000.
SO IT'S, IT CERTAINLY MEETS THAT FROM A, FROM A TRAFFIC SORT OF STANDPOINT.
SO IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE KIND OF RECOMMENDED, AGAIN, TO MAKE IT CONSISTENT, UM, YOU KNOW, TO, TO MAKE THE CHANGE.
THAT'S THE GREEN, THE GREEN HIGHLIGHTED SECTION ON THE MAP.
UM, AND THEN THE FOURTH ONE, EGYPT ROAD, UM, RECOMMENDED CHANGE FROM A COLLECTOR TO AN ARTERIAL.
AND THAT THAT'S ROUGHLY 10,000 TO 13,000.
LET ME ASK YOU THIS, ANTHONY, CAN WE, I KNOW ON THE MAP WE DESIGNATE ROADS AS WELL, THERE ARE ARTERIAL, BUT IN THIS AREA IT NEEDS TO BE WIDER.
CAN WE DO THE OPPOSITE? SO TO KEVIN'S POINT, CAN WE DESIGNATE THIS PORT, THIS PORTION OF EGYPT ROAD WHILE IT'S IN ARTERIAL TO BE NARROWER? YEAH, I THINK WE COULD.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, WE COULD KEEP, IF YOU WANTED TO KEEP MAYBE THE CLASSIFICATION OR KEEP THE RIGHT OF WAY WITH PER THAT CLASSIFICATION IN THAT SECTION OF EGYPT ROAD, YOU CAN SAY, YOU KNOW, KEEP 'EM WHATEVER THE, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S 80 FEET TODAY.
AND THEN FROM THIS PORTION TO THE OTHER PORTION WHERE IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO LOOK FOR THOSE WIDENING.
YOU CAN SAY NOW THAT THE RIGHT OF WAY SHOULD BE A HUNDRED, A HUNDRED FEET.
AND I THINK TO KEVIN'S POINT FROM EARLIER, I THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'D WANNA LOOK INTO MM-HMM
BECAUSE I THINK IT, IT DOES MAKE SENSE FOR THAT PORTION OF EGYPT ROAD.
NOW, MAYBE IF SOMETHING WERE TO HAPPEN AND LIKE FIVE HOUSES WERE TO GET REDEVELOPED, WE'D WANNA LOOK AT WIDENING IT AGAIN BECAUSE THAT MAKES MORE SENSE.
BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I, I MAYBE IT'S LIKE AN EXISTING NONCONFORMITY, IT JUST IS WHAT IT IS NOW AND WE'RE NOT GONNA GO IN THERE AND WIDEN IT OURSELVES, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT.
BUT THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK YOU SHOULD LOOK AT YEAH.
I THINK THAT'S A GOOD, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
I MEAN, IT, IT CURRENTLY HAPPENS TODAY IN TERMS OF THE WIDER SECTION.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.
BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT ROAD RIGHT AWAY DESIGNATED ON THE MAP AND THOSE FIVE HOUSES GO FOR SALE, YOU CAN'T TAKE THAT EXTRA 20 FEET.
THAT'S PROBABLY, THAT'S SOME OF THE CHALLENGE OF IT.
SO I, I DON'T KNOW, AND MAYBE IT'S A CONVERSATION WE NEED TO HAVE WITH JOE ABOUT HOW WE DO IT LEGALLY.
YEAH, I THINK SO BECAUSE I, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, YOU, I ALMOST THINK OF IT AS IF YOU, IF YOU RECLASSIFIED THE ENTIRE THING AND BEING SENSITIVE TO THOSE AREAS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE IT MAKES SENSE TO KEEP 'EM NARROW, I ALMOST THINK OF IF, IF THINGS WERE TO HAPPEN, YOU, YOU, THAT'S WHEN YOU START TO CONSIDER THE WAIVERS I GUESS WHEN THEY DON'T MAKE SENSE AT THE TIME.
BUT I DON'T, YOU KNOW, GOOD QUESTION.
AND AGAIN, I'M MORE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE THAN ANYTHING, BUT I, I THINK THE CREATING THAT CHOKE POINT DOWN ON THAT PORTION OF EGYPT ROAD, UNTIL WE CAN GET TO THE POINT OF REALIGNING EGYPT ROAD TO MAKE THAT A BETTER INTERSECTION MM-HMM
HAVING IT SLOW DOWN JUST NATURALLY BECAUSE IT'S NARROWER.
EVEN IF SOMEONE WERE TO REBUILD A HOUSE AND WE SAID, WELL, YOU NOW OWE US 20 MORE FEET OF RIGHT OF WAY, MAYBE THAT CREATES THE SITUATION WHERE IT'S, IT'S MORE NATURAL THAN ANYTHING.
THAT'S JUST SOMETHING I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT.
AND CONSIDER FOR THE NEXT ITERATION OF THE MAP.
WELL, BUT I THINK, I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE THOUGH IS, IS THAT IF YOU RECLASSIFY IT, NOTHING'S GONNA CHANGE, RIGHT? I MEAN, THOSE HOUSES ARE GONNA BE THERE UNTIL SOMEBODY BUYS THOSE FIVE HOUSES, DOCKS 'EM DOWN AND WANTS TO DEVELOP A GROCERY STORE.
BUT, BUT UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, IT'S, IT'S WHAT IT IS.
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT GONNA MAKE THEM REDO ANYTHING JUST BECAUSE THE HOUSES ARE ALREADY THERE.
SO, SO, SO YOU DON'T WANNA SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON IT'S RIGHT.
SO, YOU KNOW, WIDEN THE WHOLE, YOU KNOW, CLASSIFY THE WHOLE CLASSIFY ARTERIAL.
AND WHEN THOSE FIVE HOMES, IF IT COMES UP, COMES KNOCKED DOWN AND THEY BUILD A, A SUPERMARKET, THEY GOTTA CONFORM TO THEIR ARTERIAL ROAD.
WE REALLY CAN'T DO ANYTHING ANYHOW.
YOU'RE NOT GONNA MAKE 'EM KNOCK.
AND THE CHANCES IN OUR LIFETIME, ANYBODY ON THIS
[01:20:01]
BOARD OF THEM PUTTING A, A TARGET OR SOMETHING, THERE IS PROBABLY NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.SO, SO, YOU KNOW, IT ISN'T, YOU WALK, YOU CAN WALK YOUR KIDS WITH THE FIRST FRIDAY AT TARGET.
SO IT REALLY IS, IT REALLY IS JUST CLASSIFYING THE ROAD AND YOU KNOW, THEN THE FUTURE TAKES CARE OF IT.
AS DEVELOPMENT PROCEEDS, THEY'VE GOTTA CONFORM.
IF NOTHING HAPPENS, NOTHING HAPPENS.
LET'S, WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT HERE? YEAH, SO THE, SO THE OTHER ONE, YOU KNOW, JUST KIND OF SAVE THE, IT'S THE OTHER ONES ARE THE SAME, YOU KNOW, SO THOSE, WE WENT THROUGH FIVE, THERE'S TWO LEFT CIDER MILL ROAD, UM, FROM, UH, FEEDER TO COLLECTOR, UH, FOR THE SAME REASONS.
THE, YOU KNOW, TRAFFIC THERE, 5,000, THAT'S 7,500.
UH, YOU KNOW, CIDER ROAD TAKES, YOU KNOW, A GOOD AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC I GUESS ESPECIALLY WITH SEI WHEN THEY'RE IN THERE FULL, FULL TIME.
UM, SO THAT, AGAIN, THAT WAS JUST ANOTHER, IT DIDN'T, IT DIDN'T SYNC UP, DEPEND OUT, WE LOOKED INTO, IT MAKES SENSE FROM AN, FROM A TRAFFIC STANDPOINT.
UM, SO THAT'S, THAT WAS THE BLUE SECTION ON, ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT.
AND THEN THE LAST ONE THAT WAS, THAT WAS RECOMMENDED FOR A CHANGE IS YEAGER.
BUT YEAGER IS A LITTLE, SO ON THE RIGHT OF WAY MAP, IT'S ACTUALLY DESIGNATED CORRECTLY.
SO THERE REALLY IS NO NEED TO CHANGE IT.
BUT IN THE TEXT OF THE OLD 2010 COMP PLAN, IT WAS ACTUALLY CLASSIFIED AS A RESIDENTIAL VILLAGE.
SO WE, WE'VE ALREADY, BY THE ADOPTION OF THE NEW PLAN, ESSENTIALLY KIND OF FIXED THAT ERROR.
SO THE MAP DOESN'T REALLY CHANGE.
I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT 'CAUSE IT TECHNICALLY IT'S A CHANGE FROM THE 2010, BUT ONLY BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE TEXT.
IT SAID IT WAS RESIDENTIAL, UM, VILLAGE.
BUT THE MAP, WHEN IT WAS UPDATED AFTER SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN OUR ADOPTION AND THE, AND THE 2010 PLAN, IT, IT WAS CLASSIFIED CORRECTLY.
SO THERE'S NO CHANGE TO THE MAP.
I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT IT WAS, IT WAS A CHANGE, BUT IT WAS ALREADY HANDLED THROUGH THE ADOPTION OF THE 2024 PLAN.
SO THAT'S, THOSE ARE THE AREAS.
SO THAT MAP WAS TO SHOW YOU THAT THE RECOMMENDED CHANGES OF THE CLASSIFICATIONS.
UM, AND THEN IF WE FAST FORWARD, FLIP IT AND GO TO THE COLOR PLAN, THIS IS BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, THE UPDATED, WHAT, WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE, THE UPDATED MAP.
SO BEHIND THE SCENES, WHAT YOU DON'T SEE, 'CAUSE THIS IS JUST A PRINTED COLOR PLAN.
IT'S, IT'S BEEN CREATED IN, UH, GIS UH, SO THE 20 2008, I GUESS WAS CAD,
SO JEFF, YOU KNOW, UNDER UNDERSTANDABLY SO, COULDN'T FIND ANY OF THOSE FILES.
SO WE, WE JUST FIGURED EVERYTHING'S MIGRATING THERE.
WE KNOW THE TOWNSHIP HAS, YOU KNOW, THE, THE GIS DATABASE.
AND SO THIS, THE BACKGROUND OF THIS HAS CREATED GIS SO THERE COULD BE SHARED WITH THE TOWNSHIP AND USED SHAPED FILES AND ALL THE, THE LIKE FOR OTHER MAPS MAYBE.
UM, SO, BUT WHAT WE TRIED TO DO IS IF YOU, IF YOU COMPARE, SO BESIDES LIKE THE, SO THE LEGEND, WE TRIED TO, WE TRIED TO GET RID OF A LOT OF THE TEXT THAT WAS IN THE OLD MAP.
'CAUSE THE OLD, THE OLD MAP HAD A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, NOTES AND TEXTS.
LIKE THIS IS, YOU KNOW, ALL ITEMS NOT NOTED COULD BE VILLAGE OR RESIDENTIAL.
SO WE TRIED TO MAKE IT LESS TEXT AND PUT IT ALL IN THE LEGEND, WHICH IS WHY YOU SEE THE LEGEND KIND OF EXPANDED FROM THE PREVIOUS ONE.
UM, SO AS YOU LOOK AT LIKE LIMITED ACCESS, THE ART, LIKE ARTERIAL FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S THE STANDARD ARTERIAL AND THEN THERE'S TWO SUBCATEGORIES BECAUSE THERE WERE CERTAIN SECTIONS AS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT HAD SOME WIDER DESIGNATIONS IN THE ORIGINAL MAP.
ONE OF 'EM 140, ONE OF 'EM 120.
AND WE TRIED TO JUST, RATHER THAN DO IT THROUGH TEXT, WE TRY TO DO IT MORE GRAPHICALLY.
UM, SO WE, WE, WE THINK IT SHOWED UP.
BUT THAT'S KIND OF THE FEEDBACK THAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR ON THIS ONE.
DO PEOPLE AGREE? DOES IT MAKE SENSE? WE WANT TO GO BACK TO THE TEXT.
UM, BUT THE OTHER CATEGORY THAT THAT HAPPENED IN WAS THE COLLECTOR CATEGORY.
WHY THAT CALLS FOR A STANDARD 80 FOOT RIGHT OF WAY THAT YOU CAN SEE THERE'S TWO SUBCATEGORIES UNDERNEATH THERE FOR WIDER WIDTHS OF 120 AND A HUNDRED.
UM, AND WE, WE TRIED TO DO THAT BY THE, YOU KNOW, THE WIDTH OF THE COLORED LINES I GUESS, AS OPPOSED TO JUST LIKE NOTES ON A PLAN.
UM, SO THAT, AND THEN WE ESTABLISHED THE OTHER ONES, THE FEEDER RESIDENTIAL, THE VILLAGE, WE TRIED TO GIVE THEM DIFFERENT COLORS AND SO THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE CAN LOOK AT THE MAP A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO IDENTIFY, ESPECIALLY IF THIS IS GIS AND MAYBE IT GOES TO LIKE AN INTERACTIVE MAP OR SOMETHING IN THE FUTURE, THEN YEAH, WE'RE LOOKING, GETTING ALL OF OUR MAPS ONLINE ANYWAY.
BUT YEAH, SO THEY'RE TRYING TO KIND OF SET THAT UP FOR THAT IN THE FUTURE.
AND WE FIGURED THE LESS TEXT, THE MORE GRAPHICS AND VISUAL WE CAN MAKE IT, MAYBE THE BETTER.
I NOTICED ON YOUR, ON YOUR, ON THIS BACK TO THIS MAP ON THE ROADS THAT YOU WE THINK NEED TO BE RECLASSIFIED.
WE'RE NOT, YOU DIDN'T IDENTIFY TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD NOW, IS THAT, IS THAT, WHAT'S THAT CLASSIFIED AS NOW? TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD IS
[01:25:01]
ARTERIAL ARTERIAL, BUT DOWN, DOWN TO, UH, RITTENHOUSE JUST BELOW RITTENHOUSE.SO, SO THERE'S A LOT OF RIGHT OF WAY THERE.
IS THAT WHAT WE'RE SAYING? YEAH, SO FOR AN ARTERIAL, SO THAT ROAD'S THERE, I MEAN OBVIOUSLY WHEN IT GETS UP TO PJP AND THEN ALL THE WAY DOWN TO MM-HMM
TO THE SHOPPING CENTER, IT'S, IT'S GETTING REAL NARROW AND IT'S VERY CROWDED.
SO THERE IS, THERE IS RIGHT OF WAY THERE.
IT'S ESTABLISHED AS AN ARTERIAL TODAY.
AND THAT MAKES, THAT MAKES SENSE FOR THAT.
I MEAN THERE'S A COUPLE HOUSES IN THERE THAT WE PROBABLY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY, BUT THERE'S A BIG SECTION FOR TAYLOR, THE TAYLOR FARM, YOU KNOW, THAT.
SO WE COULD WIDEN IN THROUGH THERE IF WE EVER, IF WE EVER CHOSE TO DO THAT.
BUT I AGREE WITH YOU, THAT'S A ROAD THAT PART OF THE FRUSTRATION WITH THAT IS THE INTERSECTION AT BUCKWALTER THAT'S OUT OF OUR CONTROL IS, IS I THINK YOU GET A LOT OF SLOW DOWN RIGHT AT THAT INTERSECTION COMING SOUTHBOUND AT BUCKWALTER WHERE THE KIA DEALERSHIP NOW IS AND THE TIRE PLUS OR WHATEVER THE TIRES PLACE IS THAT'S IN LIMERICK.
AND THEN THE, SO THE ONLY OTHER THING I WANTED TO POINT OUT, MAYBE THIS WAS, YOU KNOW, FOR THIS, BUT, 'CAUSE I WANTED YOU TO SEE THIS TOO, JEFF WAS THE UNDEFINED SECTION AT THE BOTTOM.
IT'S NOT REALLY THAT THE ROADS ARE UNDEFINED.
IT WAS, THESE ARE CHANGES FROM THAT WEREN'T THESE SECTIONS OF ROADWAYS, A MAJORITY OF THESE SHOWN ON THAT UNDEFINED CATEGORY THAT DASHED LIKE BLACK LINE, UM, WEREN'T ON THE ORIGINAL MAP.
THESE ROADS ARE NOW REFLECTING ON THE CURRENT MAP.
THE COUNTY HAS THEM DESIGNATED AS LOCAL ROADS.
UM, WE WERE JUST GOING TO, WE, WE KEPT THEM THERE.
'CAUSE I WANTED TO SHOW YOU THAT THEY WERE DIFFERENT EVERYONE, THAT THEY WERE DIFFERENT.
BUT OUR THOUGHT WAS TO JUST ROLL THOSE INTO RESIDENTIAL, I THINK.
BUT THERE MIGHT BE SOME DIFFERENCE.
THERE MIGHT BE SOME THAT NOT, AREN'T THERE? I, I THINK THAT'S THE BEST OPTION IS TO, TO KIND OF KEEP IT CONSISTENT WITH RESIDENTIAL.
THAT'S THAT'S A ROAD GENERALLY.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE PRIVATELY OWNED ROADS.
WE STILL REQUIRE THROUGH DEVELOPMENT THAT PRIVATELY OWNED ROADS BE DEVELOPED TO TOWNSHIP STANDARDS BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY OUR FIRETRUCKS STILL HAVE TO GO ON THEM.
AND THAT'S SORT OF THE BASIS FOR ALL OF THIS.
I THINK IT'S GOOD TO MAKE IT CONSISTENT.
SO MIGHT THEN, SO THEN WHAT YOU SEE IS UNDEFINED ON THIS.
I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, THE, WHEN IT'S FINAL, IT'LL, IT'LL ROLL IN INTO THE RESIDENTIAL TO THE RESIDE, UM, PURPLE COLORS AND THEN WE'LL ADD MORE OF THE ROAD NAMES AND THINGS THERE TOO.
I JUST DIDN'T WANNA MUDDY UP THE, THE PLAN TOO MUCH 'CAUSE I WANTED THOSE TO STAND OUT.
UM, AND THEN THE OTHER THOUGHT I HAD ON THIS FOR FEEDBACK WAS, YOU KNOW, THE FINAL VERSION, I WANT TO HAVE A TITLE BLOCK, I GUESS LIKE WE DID ON THE ORIGINAL.
AND MY THOUGHT WAS MAYBE TO ADD THE UPPER PROVIDENCE LOGO.
YEAH, I MEAN YOU COULD DO THAT.
I MEAN IF YOU LOOK AT ANY OF THE MAPS I PUT, I PUT GREECE PLENTY ASSOCIATES IN.
I WAS GONNA ASK ED BOWMAN AND BOWMAN ON THERE.
I OBVIOUSLY, YEAH, YOU NEED TO HAVE CREDIT FOR YOUR OWN MAP.
SO WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT, THAT, I'LL GET TO THE TANGENT.
SO IT'S NOT ON THIS, BUT MY IDEA WAS LIKE TO MAKE, PUT A BORDER, PUT A, PUT A LOGO, MAKE THE, YOU KNOW, YEAH.
SO, SO IF, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS, IF THAT MAKES SENSE AND YEP.
ALRIGHT, I'M GONNA RUN THROUGH RIDGE PIKE REAL QUICK 'CAUSE REALLY I JUST THANK YOU ANTHONY.
I WANTED TO GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT THE ZONING IS AND WE'RE NOT GONNA, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT CHANGES TONIGHT.
I I THINK JUST UNDERSTANDING HOW THE ZONING DISTRICT SORT OF WORKS IS, IS PROBABLY THE, THE BEST FIRST STEP.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP THAT YOU SEE UP HERE, AGAIN, THIS SOUNDS OF IT IS SO DIFFICULT TO SHOW ON A VIS IN A VISUAL 'CAUSE OF THE SHAPE OF IT, THE ANGLE OF IT.
BUT IF YOU TURN TO, IN YOUR PACKET, YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE, OF ARTICLE, OH GOD, 25 6 7 8 28, UM, OF, AND THAT'S NC THE WAY NC WORKS IS IT HAS THREE SEPARATE CATEGORIES FOR PERMITTED USES.
THOSE USES ON AN ACRE OR SMALLER, OR THOSE USES ON A MINIMUM, I'M SORRY, IT'S EVERYTHING ON A HALF AN ACRE.
A MINIMUM LOT AREA, HALF AN ACRE, A MINIMUM LOT AREA OF AN ACRE AND A MINIMUM LOT AREA OF THREE ACRES.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT RIDGE PIKE NC ZONING HAS, WHAT I'VE TRIED TO DO HERE, SORT OF CLASSIFY EACH OF THESE PARCELS.
IF IT DOESN'T HAVE A BORDER AROUND IT, IT'S UNDER THREE OR IT'S UNDER HALF AN ACRE.
IF IT'S THE LIGHT BLUE, IT'S UNDER AN ACRE OR IT'S AN ACRE OR GREATER.
AND THEN IF IT'S GREEN, IT'S THREE ACRES OR GREATER.
SO YOU HAVE A LOT OF, THE WHOLE POINT IS YOU HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT PARCELS IN THIS AREA, DIFFERENT SIZE PARCELS.
THE ONES IN PURPLE ARE, THE PARCELS ARE A FULL PARCEL, BUT WE'VE SPLIT ZONED THEM.
THAT'S SOMETHING I KIND OF GET WANT TO GET AWAY FROM TOO, BECAUSE I THINK THAT CREATES A PROBLEM WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT DEVELOPMENT.
UM, BUT THIS DISTRICT IS PURELY COMMERCIAL.
[01:30:01]
ALLOWED.THERE'S A VARIETY OF, GENERALLY THE WAY THE PERMITTED USES WORK IS IF YOU'RE ON HALF AN ACRE, YOU, IT'S PERSONAL SERVICE SHOPS, THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE.
THE DENTIST'S OFFICE IS AN INDIVIDUAL USER.
UM, WHEN YOU GET TO ONE ACRE, YOU CAN HAVE TWO INDIVIDUAL USERS.
SO YOU COULD HAVE A DOCTOR'S OFFICE AND A DRY CLEANER IN INDIVIDUAL STORES ON THAT ONE ACRE OR IN A COMBINED STORE.
UM, WHEN YOU GET TO ONE ACRE, YOU, YOU CAN START TO GET TO CONDITIONAL USES FOR DRY CLEAN OR FOR, UM, DRIVE-INS FOR AUTOMOTIVE GAS STATIONS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO THAT BECOMES A CONDITIONAL USE WHERE IT'S ANOTHER LAYER AS WE ALL KNOW, ANOTHER LAYER OF, YOU KNOW, SORT OF REVIEW AND DISCUSSION TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT A GAS STATION BRINGS TO THE TABLE IN TERMS OF TRAFFIC IMPACT OR, YOU KNOW, ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT IS ACCOUNTED FOR DURING THAT DEVELOPMENT.
AND THEN THREE ACRES, IT'S A COMBINATION OF ANYTHING IN THE ONE ACRE OR THE HALF ACRE.
IT'S A, YOU CAN PUT, UM, YOU CAN PUT, UM, ANY OF THOSE USES ON, ON THE SAME PROPERTY.
YOU CAN PUT VEHICULAR SALES, YOU CAN PUT WHOLESALE SALES, YOU CAN PUT, UM, SOME STORAGE USES THAT WAS KIND OF WRITTEN IN THERE FOR THE PIECE THAT'S RIGHT AT, AT KLEIN AND AND MAIN, UM, IT'S PRETTY HODGEPODGE AT THIS POINT.
UM, I KNOW THAT RIGHT NOW THE ADDED THE FEELING IS THAT WE'RE NOT, WE DON'T WANT ANY RESIDENTIAL AND I'M CERTAINLY A HUNDRED PERCENT ON PAR WITH YOU ON THAT.
I I I DON'T WANNA SEE ANY OF THIS DEVELOPED RESIDENTIAL.
I DON'T THINK ANY OF US CARE WHAT BUSINESSES GO IN THERE.
IT'S MORE THE RESIDENTIAL PART.
A BIG APARTMENT BUILDING OR SOMEBODY PUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND IT, IT'S INTERESTING, I WAS AT A, A CONFERENCE, A SEMINAR LAST WEEK AND, AND UM, THE, MY COMPATRIOT IN LIMERICK, THEY'RE DOING A STUDY OF THIS AS WELL OF RIDGE PIKE OF THEIR SECTION OF RIDGE PIKE.
AND THAT WAS THE ONE THING GRETA SAID THAT SHE'S LIKE, WE DON'T WANT ANY RESIDENTIAL ON RIDGE PIKE.
WE HAVE ENOUGH WHERE WE HAVE IT WHERE THIS AREA WE'RE STUDYING, WE WANT IT TO BE COMMERCIAL.
AND I WENT UP TO HER AND I SAID, HEY, WE'RE, WE'RE IN WITH YOU AND WE'D LIKE TO WORK TOGETHER BECAUSE I THINK AS PART OF THIS, WE WOULD LIKE TO WORK AS A SORT OF A UNIFIED APPROACH TO THE ZONING ON EITHER SIDE OF IT.
UM, NOW IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT, I CAN START SORT OF GOING THROUGH AND SUGGESTING THINGS WE CUT AND MAYBE SOME CHANGES TO THE ORDINANCE.
AND I, I WANTED TO JUST, I WANTED YOU TO UNDERSTAND SORT OF HOW THE ORDINANCE IS STRUCTURED.
'CAUSE I KNOW YOU GUYS DON'T READ THE ORDINANCE.
YOU READ OUR REVIEW LETTER SAYING, OKAY, IT FITS HERE, IT DOESN'T FIT HERE.
BUT I MEAN, WITH ANY ORDINANCE, THERE'S A SPECIFIC STRUCTURE TO IT AND WHAT IT ALLOWS AND WHAT IT DOESN'T ALLOW.
I MEAN, I, AND THEN ONCE YOU GET SORT OF GET PAST THE PERMITTED USES, YOU GET INTO DISTRICT REGULATIONS, WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, UM, SEWER AND WATER FACILITIES.
THAT'S WHERE YOU GET INTO THE YARD AREAS AND THE BUILDING SETBACKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
NOW WHAT ABOUT, UM, WHAT ABOUT, UM, UH, MEDICAL FACILITIES? I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE DOCTOR'S.
I'M TALKING ABOUT LIKE A HOSPITAL OR A NURSING HOME.
IS THAT, WHAT IS THAT? IF, IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU WANNA SEE THERE THAT'S, THAT'S FEASIBLE.
NO, I'D LIKE TO SEE IT NOT BE THERE MYSELF, BUT, OKAY.
YEAH, THEN THAT'S, I MEAN, A DOCTOR'S OFFICE, AN INDIVIDUAL DOCTOR'S OFFICE IS ALLOWED INDIVIDUAL DOCTOR DENTIST'S OFFICE.
I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT A BIG FACILITY HOSPITAL OR NURSING HOME AND THAT'S GONNA BE THE CHALLENGE FOR THIS ORDINANCE.
I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, IT'S A COMBINATION OF, OF SMALL AND LARGE PARCELS.
AND, AND SORT OF WHAT I ALLUDED TO BEFORE IS I THINK YOU'RE GONNA SEE WHAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE HAPPENING ALONG RIDGE PIKE IS THE CONSOLIDATION OF PARCELS.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO BUY UP A COMBINATION IN ORDER TO DO ANYTHING.
AND I THINK THAT AS THE WESTERN SIDE WHERE LIDLE IS, AS THAT DEVELOPS AND THINGS START TO GO INTO TRAP AND WE CONNECT WITH TRAP A LITTLE BIT MORE, YOU'RE GONNA SEE THE CONSOLIDATION OF PARCELS.
'CAUSE YOU REALLY CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH A HALF ACRE PIECE, A 21,000 SQUARE FOOT PIECE.
BUT IF YOU BUY THE ONE NEXT TO YOU AND YOU BUY THE ONE NEXT TO YOU THAT ARE JUST RUN DOWN RENTAL PROPERTIES, SUDDENLY YOU'RE SITTING AT AN ACRE AND A HALF, TWO ACRES AND YOU, YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING WITH IT.
SO I, I THINK WE, MOVING FORWARD, THAT'S SORT OF WHAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE TAKEN CARE OF AND, AND, AND LOOKING AT TAKING CARE OF WHAT, TAKING CARE OF THAT, JUST UNDERSTANDING THAT IT MAY HAPPEN.
WE DON'T ALLOW PEOPLE TO BUY UP.
WELL, NO, I I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING NECESSARILY WRONG WITH IT BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK WE WANNA SEE ALONG RIDGE PIKE IS A CONSOLIDATION OF DRIVEWAYS.
WE DON'T WANNA SEE A DRIVEWAY.
I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS PIECE RIGHT DOWN HERE WITH ALL THESE LIGHT BLUE PIECES, THAT'S A DRIVEWAY FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE OF 'EM.
YOU KNOW, AND THAT JUST CREATES HAVOC UP THERE, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT WHEN IT'S BUSY.
SO YOU WANNA SEE CONSOLIDATION OF DRIVEWAYS, YOU WANNA ENCOURAGE THAT AND MAYBE THAT DOES RE REQUIRE THE CONSOLIDATION OF PARCELS OR A BONUS FOR DOING THAT.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S A TRADE OFF.
WE DON'T WANNA SEE SOMEONE COME IN AND BUY ALL OF THAT LIGHT BLUE THAT'S BETWEEN GREENWOOD AND, AND
[01:35:01]
AND, UM, PENNY PACKER AND SAY, WELL NOW I HAVE FIVE ACRES, I'M GONNA PUT UP A HOME DEPOT AND THIS AND THAT AND THE OTHER THING BECAUSE THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THAT AREA.BUT WE DO WANNA ENCOURAGE SOME DEVELOPMENT OF THAT AREA THAT'S ON MORE THAN AN ACRE.
IT'S, IT'S, IT'S GONNA BE AN INTERESTING BALANCE HOW WE FIGURE IT OUT.
IT'S GONNA BE REAL INTERESTING BALANCE.
SO THAT'S GONNA BE THE CHALLENGE OF IT.
AND I'M JUST SORT OF LETTING YOU KNOW THAT THAT'S, THIS IS A VERY DYNAMIC AREA IN TERMS OF LAND USES, PROPERTY SIZES, TRAFFIC IMPACT, LOCATION, ALL OF THAT.
THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, AND, AND EVEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, THESE TWO PIECES RIGHT IN HERE, RIGHT IN HERE, THESE TWO PIECES.
THIS ONE RIGHT HERE IS THE KLEIN ROAD PIECE THAT WANTED TO PUT IN THE INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT.
AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT, BY THE WAY? BECAUSE WE APPROVED THAT, RIGHT? NO, WELL I THINK YOU MADE A RECOMMENDATION THAT THE ZONING WAS OKAY, BUT THE SUPERVISORS, THEY STARTED THE ZONING HEARING, THE SUPERVISORS WERE ASKING FOR OTHER CONCESSIONS, OTHER THINGS, AND THEY SAID, WE'RE NOT SURE ABOUT THAT.
SO THEY PUT THE HEARING ON HOLD AND IT'S TECHNICALLY STILL ON HOLD NOW FOUR YEARS LATER.
BUT THEY ALSO APPEALED THEIR ZONING HEARING BOARD DECISION THAT TURNED THEM DOWN FOR IT.
THEY APPEALED THAT ALL THE WAY UP TO THE STATE AND THEY DIDN'T WIN.
SO THEY'RE SORT OF A CROSSROADS.
UNFORTUNATELY, THEY CAN STILL DO THE ROCK CRUSHING AND THINGS LIKE THAT THERE BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT HISTORICALLY AND TO NON-CONFORMING LOT.
BUT IF COMING UP WITH SOME COMPROMISE TO WHAT THEY COULD DO THAT WASN'T MAYBE AS IMPACTFUL AS THESE INDUSTRIAL SITES THAT WERE SORT OF PLUG AND PLAY PLUMBER AND YEAH.
THAT WAS NOT, THERE WAS, IT WAS SURVIVABLE, BUT IT WASN'T THE GREATEST CHOICE IN THE WORLD.
IF WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THE CHALLENGE YOU HAVE IS LIKE THE SHEMEN NURSERY.
YOU HAVE THE RETAIL UP IN THE FRONT AND ALL THE NURSERY PART IN THE BACK.
SO HOW DO YOU BALANCE THAT OUT? RIGHT NOW, THE BACK PART OF THESE ARE ALL ZONED R ONE, THE FRONT PART IS ZONED NC.
IT CREATES, IT'S JUST DIFFICULT TO MOVE THAT FORWARD OR TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ON WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T DO THERE.
UM, IT COULD, WE JUST KIND OF, UH, REITERATED THAT WE KIND OF WANT TO DISCOURAGE RESIDENTIAL, BUT UH, I SEE THIS AS A PERMITTED USE HERE UNDER ITEM D AS A SECONDARY USE TO THOSE LISTED ABOVE RESIDENTIAL UNITS ARE PERMITTED ONLY ABOVE STREET LEVEL AND COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENTS.
I MEAN, SHOULD WE EDIT THAT OUT FOR LIKE, FOR MIXED USE? IS THAT WHAT THAT'S GETTING AT? RETAIL AND THE BOTTOM? IS THAT LIKE DEPARTMENTS ABOVE UH, YEAH, LIKE ABOVE A STORE, DENTIST OFFICE.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU SEE IT IN TOWN.
WE WOULD, I THINK WE WOULD WANT TO GET THAT, THAT IF WE CAN, IF, IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU DON'T WANT.
I DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, I COMPLETELY MISSED THAT.
IF THAT, IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU DON'T WANT IN THERE, THEN YEAH, I THINK WE WANT TO, AGAIN, I'M TALKING FROM ME.
WE HAVEN'T TALKED OR YOU KNOW, BUT I'M SAYING I, I WANT TO KNOW RESIDENTS IN THERE AT ALL.
NO, I THINK IN TERMS OF APARTMENTS OR I AGREE WITH TOM AND, AND JERRY, I THINK WE WANT TO KEEP IT AS COMMERCIAL.
NOW HAVING SAID THAT, I MEAN I KNOW WE, WE MAYBE ARE GETTING INTO THE DETAIL, BUT WE WANT TO DO TIME.
I WOULD ALSO STRIKE OUT MOTEL AS WELL AS A PERMITTED USE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT IT.
BUT, AND PART OF THIS MIGHT BE BECAUSE THERE IS OTHER COMMERCIAL NC COMMERCIAL IN THE TOWNSHIP.
THIS MIGHT BE A NEW ZONING DISTRICT BECAUSE MY OPINION OF THE ZONING DISTRICT IS WE HAVE VILLAGE COMMERCIAL, NEIGHBORHOOD, COMMERCIAL AND COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER VILLAGE COMMERCIAL AND NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL AREN'T THAT DIFFERENT.
AND YOU CAN'T CALL THAT WHERE THIS IS ON RIDGE PIKE A NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT REALLY IS JUST A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.
SAME THING WITH THE SHOPPING CENTER, THE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER.
I REALIZE WE HAVE THREE PIECES THAT SORT OF HAVE, THAT THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS OVERALL IN THIS TOWNSHIP AREN'T ORGANIZED IN THE BEST WAY TO MAKE THEM ACTUALLY WORK AS ZONING DISTRICTS.
I'M NOT SAYING WE'RE GONNA MAKE WHOLESALE CHANGES TO IT, BUT SOME OF WHAT I SUGGEST FOR THIS RIDGE PIKE MIGHT BE SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF A YERKES MIXED USE WITHOUT THE RESIDENTIAL.
SO IT'S, IT'S A RIDGE PIKE RESIDENTIAL OR RIDGE PIKE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT CO YEAH.
TO REALLY SORT OF UNIFY WHAT YOU CAN DO THERE TO MAKE IT SO THAT THE WHOLE CORRIDOR DEVELOPS AS A CORRIDOR AND YOU GET DOWN TO ONE DRIVEWAY AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
BUT I THINK, I THINK THAT'S THE INTENTION OF THESE BOARD IS TO ELIMINATE POSSIBILITIES OF RESIDENTIAL.
SO A LONG, LONG, LONG TIME AGO I WAS A DEVELOPER, I WAS JUST A KID AND I WORKED ON THE CARLTON POOLS PROJECT ON RIDGE BAY, BUT I'M NOT SEEING ON THIS MAP THAT, THAT HAS THE SAME BACK ALLEY THAT YOU SHOW OVER ON THE LEGAL SIDE.
BUT THERE'S A 50 FOOT STRIP THERE THAT I HAD TO PUT IN FOR CARLTON POOLS.
[01:40:01]
I HAD NO IDEA PAINTED IN MY BUTT.AND THE INTENT WAS TO ELIMINATE ALL THE DRIVEWAYS ON REQUEST, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE THAT BACK ALLEY AND THEN JUST HAVE YOUR MAIN POINTS ON THE STREET.
SO I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT EVER SHOWED ON A MAP SOMEWHERE OR NO, I, I HONESTLY HAD NO IDEA THAT THAT EXISTED.
IF THERE'S JUST THE RIGHT OF WAY, THERE'S NO ROAD.
IT'S FOR WHEN THE NEXT PARCEL OVER WOULD DEVELOP, THEY WOULD HAVE TO TIE INTO THE SAME 50 FOOT RIGHT OF WAY.
AND THEN, BUT I'M SAYING THAT, THAT THAT PROCESS SEEMS TO WORK WELL, IT DOES LIMIT THE DRIVEWAY ON THIS MAP.
OH, I KNOW, BUT I'M SAYING YOU CAN'T MAKE ANYBODY TIE IN.
WE'LL SIT DOWN AND WE'LL FIGURE OUT WHERE THAT IS AND WE'LL LOOK AT IT AND WE WILL, UM, PUT IT ON THE MAP ON BOTH MAPS, MAYBE ALL THREE.
WE DID A LOT TONIGHT, HUH? YEAH, SURE DID.
YEAH, THIS WAS A, THIS WAS A, THIS WAS A BIG FIRST STEP.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
TRY, WE'RE GONNA WORK ON THIS MEETING SPECIFICALLY THE NEXT MEETING.UM, NOW WE DO HAVE, WE DO, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, AT THE AGENDA, THERE IS ONE NEW APPLICATION THAT WE GOT FOR, UM, MILLENNIUM ESTATES SIX 50 EGYPT ROAD.
UM, THAT WILL BE ON PROBABLY IN MARCH, I THINK THE FIRST MEETING IN MARCH.
UM, WE DO HAVE, I KNOW THAT THERE'S A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT THAT'S COMING UP, TWO ZONING TEXT AMENDMENTS THAT ARE COMING UP THAT, THAT PEOPLE ARE, THAT THEY'VE PUT, THEY'RE GOING TO BE PUTTING IN, THEY HAVE NOTHING PUT THEM IN YET.
ONE IS FOR CAMPUS DRIVE, UM, TO ALLOW, IT'S STILL AN OFFICE USE, BUT THERE'S SOME OTHER USES WITHIN THE OFFICE THAT AREN'T SORT OF ACCOUNTED FOR.
AND THE OTHER ONE IS AN AG RETAINMENT ORDINANCE, UM, FOR, UM, SOME OF THE R ONE PROPERTIES.
AND WE'LL EXPLAIN THAT WHEN WE GET TO IT.
IT'S, IT'S COMPLICATED AND IT'S BEEN IN PROCESS FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF NOW OF THE, OF AN OWNER BEHIND THE SCENES WORKING WITH ME TO SORT OF MOVE THIS FORWARD.
AND HE'S MET WITH HIS NEIGHBORS AND I DON'T WANT TO GO TOO FAR INTO IT BECAUSE I DON'T EVEN HAVE THE APPLICATION YET, BUT IT, IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S WORTH LOOKING AT IN THE ORDINANCE.
SO THAT, I MEAN, THAT MAY NOT BE UNTIL MARCH AS WELL.
UM, JUST DEPENDING, BUT SO FEBRUARY, THE FEBRUARY 19TH MEETING WE'LL COME BACK AND WE'LL HIT YOU WITH THIS AGAIN, AND WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE THE NEXT STEP ON ALL OF THESE MAPS.
AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE IS, ALL THE OTHER LAND DEVELOPMENTS ARE SORT OF REDESIGNING IT.
WE HAD A MEETING WITH COLLEGEVILLE ROAD WITH, WITH QUEST REDEVELOPMENT, WHAT, A WEEK AGO, TWO WEEKS AGO.
YOU, UM, AND TALKED THROUGH SOME OF THE, THE DRAFT LETTERS THAT THE, THE ENGINEERS HAD COME UP WITH AND SOME OF THE CHANGES THEY'RE MAKING, SOME CHANGES TO THEIR PLANS.
THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE CLEANING THINGS UP 'CAUSE THEY'RE, THEY WERE EXTENSIVE LETTERS.
UM, GALMAN, THE HOPWOOD ROAD AND UKI STATION.
UH, THEY'RE WORKING ON 'EM, I GUESS.
SO WE ARE NOT REALLY SURE WHERE THEY ARE.
UH, AS I SAID, HAVE ACTIVE PLAN FOR HOPWOOD.
I HAVE AN ACTIVE PLAN FOR HOPWOOD.
JANE, WHAT'D YOU SAY? OH, I'M SORRY.
I HAVE AN ACTIVE PLAN FOR 1 72 HOPWOOD HOPWOOD FARMS UP ON THE HILL.
THEY'VE RESUBMITTED, SO WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF LOOKING AT THAT.
WHAT ARE THEY? YEAH, THAT'S THE TOWNHOUSE.
I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NEW ON THAT.
THEY KEEP SAYING, OH, WE'RE GONNA GET THAT TO YOU IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MONTH.
IT WAS LIKE THE MIDDLE OF JANUARY.
I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING SINCE THEN.
SO THE PLANS, THEY'RE STILL WORKING ON THEIR PRELIMINARY PLAN CHANGES AND AMELIA STREET TOWN HOMES, THEY'VE GOT ISSUES THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO WORK THROUGH.
HOW ABOUT THE QUEST DEVELOPMENT? THAT'S THE ONE WE MET WITH LAST WEEK.
THEY'RE WORKING THROUGH THEIR ENGINEERING ISSUES.
SO ARE THEY STILL GOING TO A TOWNHOUSE ON TOP OF A TOWNHOUSE? YES.
YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY, I DIDN'T REALIZE IT UNTIL LIKE A WEEK AGO, AND MAYBE THAT'S MY AGE.
IN HIGH SCHOOL, I LIVED IN A STACKED TOWNHOUSE.
THE MIDDLE HOU, THE MIDDLE ONE HAD TWO BEDROOM, WELL, IT WAS THE FIRST FLOOR WAS THERE WAS A GARAGE.
YOU'D PULL IN AND THEN YOU'D GO INTO YOUR HOUSE AND IT WAS A HOUSE WITH A SMALL LOFT.
THE MIDDLE HOUSE WAS ANOTHER TWO BEDROOM HOUSE WITH A LARGER LOFT AND A LARGER LIVING ROOM.
AND THEN THE THIRD FLOOR WAS A THIRD APARTMENT, SMALLER, ONE BEDROOM, TWO BEDROOM, JUST MORE APARTMENT STYLE.
BUT I, I WAS LIKE, OH YEAH, I GUESS THEY, THEY, IT DID WORK AT THE TIME.
I MEAN, IT WAS JUST MY MOTHER AND I, MY SISTER HAD MOVED OUT AND SO IT WAS, YOU KNOW, WE MOVED FROM A BIGGER HOUSE DOWN TO THAT.
BUT IT, IT DID WORK AS A SYSTEM.
I MEAN, IT, IT WAS, IT WAS A PRETTY EFFICIENT BUILDING TYPE FOR, YOU KNOW, THE USE OF THE TIME BACK IN THE EARLY EIGHTIES.
SO,
AND THEN AFTER THAT, UM, AFTER THAT WOULD BE MARCH 5TH.
[01:45:01]
ONE WE'LL HAVE TO SEE.I THINK WE'LL HAVE SOME LAND DEVELOPMENT ON THAT ONE.
I'M, I'M GONNA MISS THAT ONE ALSO.
WE'RE, WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA GO BACK TO HAVING LAND DEVELOPMENT ON THAT ONE.
AND THEN GOING BACK TO JUST THE SECOND MEETING OF THE MONTH BEING, UM, COMP PLAN, THE 19TH OTHER THINGS, THAT WOULD BE THE 19TH ALSO OF MARCH? YES.
AND, AND YOU SAID THE EGYPT ROAD PROPERTY IN MARCH? YES.
THAT WOULD BE THE MARCH 5TH MEETING.
I THINK YOU GUYS ARE ON TRACK FOR THAT, RIGHT? MARCH 5TH.
SO WITH THAT, UM, UH, APPLICATION BE HEARD, OKAY, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
UH, FUTURE AGENDA, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? GOOD STUFF, GUYS.
UM, UM, ANY, ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? I'LL TAKE A MOTION.
UM, MAKE A MOTION THAT WE A, A ADJOURN.
JERRY'S MADE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT.
JOE AND BOB BOTH HAVE SECONDED IT.
THANK YOU FOR OUR BELOVED GUESTS.
TOM, DO YOU WANT THIS? NO, YOU TAKE IT.