[CALL TO ORDER / MOTION TO APPROVE DECEMBER 4, 2024 AGENDA]
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OKAY, WE'RE GONNA CALL TO ORDER THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FOR UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP FOR DECEMBER 4TH, 2024.THIS ONE DOESN'T WORK AS WELL.
THANKS FOR EVERYONE BEING HERE TONIGHT.
AND THE FIRST PIECE OF OUR ORDER IS TO LOOK AT THE, UH, THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING.
LOOKS LIKE WE GOT A COUPLE APPLICANTS ON THE AGENDA, AND, UM, IF ANYBODY HAS ANY COMMENTS OR ADDITIONS, UM, WE'LL TAKE THOSE.
IF NOT, UH, I'LL ASK FOR APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.
SO THE AGENDA'S BEEN APPROVED FOR TONIGHT, AND THE NEXT THING ON THE AGENDA WILL BE THE NON AGENDA ITEMS. SO ANYTHING THAT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA THAT ANYBODY IN THE GALLERY OR ANYBODY ON THE COMMISSION WANTS TO MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT, THIS IS THE TIME TO DO THAT.
NOT HEARING ANY, NOT LOOKING FOR ANY, UH, WE'LL MOVE ON, UH, GENERAL
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
DISCUSSION ITEMS AS WE PROVE SOME MINUTES.JEFF, I THINK WE GOT SOME DATE PROBLEMS. JOE NOTICED THAT WE HAVE A, I THINK IT'S NOVEMBER 2ND, NOVEMBER 20TH.
I'M SORRY, A BAD CUT AND PASTE JOB ON THE END.
I JUST, AM I CORRECT ON THAT? OKAY.
SO, UH, WE GOT TWO MINUTES TO APPROVE, UH, FROM NOVEMBER 2ND, AND THEN OUR MEETING JUST LAST OR TWO WEEKS AGO, UH, NOVEMBER 20TH.
SO IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, ADDITIONS, SUBTRACTIONS, CORRECTIONS, UH, THIS IS THE TIME TO MAKE THOSE.
IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, BOTH OF 'EM AT THE SAME TIME.
THAT WOULD BE NOVEMBER 6TH AND NOVEMBER 20TH.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE MEETING OF NOVEMBER 6TH AND NOVEMBER 20TH.
SO JOE'S MADE A, UM, UH, UH, MOTION TO APPROVE.
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON DECEMBER 4, 2024]
MOVE ON TO OUR FIRST APPLICANT OF THIS EVENING AND, UH, THE ALEXANDER MINOR SUBDIVISION.AND WE DON'T MEAN TO CALL IT MINOR, IT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU, I'M SURE, IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND, UM, ALL THAT STUFF.
I'M, UH, MIKE KY, I, MR. THE MIKE ON LU.
I'M HERE REPRESENTING, UH, RONALD AND KIMBERLY ALEXANDER.
SO WE'VE, UH, SUBMITTED, UH, A TWO LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION.
UM, IT'S LOCATED AT 3 26 GREENWOOD AVENUE.
UM, THE PROPERTY AREA IS ABOUT 3.12 ACRES, MAYBE SPLITTING IT INTO TWO LOTS.
LOT ONE WOULD BE ABOUT 1.44 ACRES, AND LOT TWO WOULD BE, UH, 1.68 ACRES.
LOT ONE WOULD CONTAIN THE EXISTING RESIDENTIAL DWELLING.
UM, AND THEN LOT TWO IS, IS, UH, CURRENTLY UNDEVELOPED.
THERE'S NO DEVELOPMENT ON ON LOT TWO AT THIS TIME.
IT IS EXPECTED THAT IT WOULD BE AN, IT WOULD BE DEVELOPED AT SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
UM, WE HAVE RECEIVED REVIEW LETTERS FROM THE TOWNSHIP ENGINEER AND THE TOWNSHIP TRAFFIC CONSULTANT, BOTH DATED, UH, OCTOBER 31ST.
AND, UH, IF THERE'S ANY REVIEW COMMENTS YOU WOULD LIKE TO REVIEW ON THAT, UM, I'D BE HAPPY TO GO THROUGH THEM.
UM, ANTHONY, JEN, ANY ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD TO THAT OR ANY, LOOKED AT YOUR LETTER NOW? WHAT, UH, UH, ANTHONY, WELL, I GUESS JUST BAILEY PLEASE RESPOND.
YEAH, IT'S GONNA, THERE'S, I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING UNLESS, UH, THE APPLICANT, UH, REPRESENTATIVE HAS ANY QUESTIONS.
I MEAN, OUR WAS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
IT WAS MORE PLANNING ITEMS FOR THE FUTURE AT A FUTURE TIME OF DEVELOPMENT.
SO THERE WAS A QUESTION ON THE RIGHT OF WAY WITH, UH, CLARIFICATION.
UM, AND JUST CALLING OUT OF THE CODE FOR SIDEWALK AND CURBING AND DEFERRAL, THAT'S DECIDED TO MESS UP.
AND WE WOULD PROBABLY REQUEST, UH, THREE WAIVERS.
ONE FOR CAR WAY WIDENING, ONE FOR CURBING, AND ONE FOR SIDEWALK ALONG GREENWOOD AVENUE.
SO THAT SINCE THERE'S NO DEVELOPMENT AND, AND THERE'S REALLY, UM, THE CAR WAY WIDTH IS ALREADY, UH, CONSISTENT IN THAT AREA.
UH, THERE'S NO CURVING ON THAT SIDE OF SIDE OF THE ROAD AND THERE'S NO SIDEWALK ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROAD.
WE WOULD PROBABLY ASK FOR WAIVERS FOR THOSE THREE ITEMS. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT? THINK IS THAT A PROBLEM OR? NO, WE, WE HAVE NO ISSUES ON THAT SIDE.
UH, IF WE HAVE, UH, DEVELOPMENTS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ROAD, BUT NOT ALONG THIS PROMISE, I THINK THE AREA IS PRETTY CONSISTENT.
NO ISSUES FROM OUR JEN, ANYTHING FOR YOU? UM, THE ONLY TWO ITEMS I WANTED TO BRING UP FROM OUR LETTER IS, UM, THE ARY SEWER.
UM, THE TOWNSHIP HAD RECENTLY PUT LATERALS OUT THERE, BUT THERE'S NOT TWO FOR THIS PROPERTY.
THERE'S ONLY ONE FOR THE EXISTING HOUSE OUT THERE.
SO THE NEW LOT WOULD NEED A, UM, LATERAL FOR PUBLIC SEWER.
AND THEN AS FAR AS DRIVEWAY PLACEMENT, JUST CONFIRMING SITE
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DISTANCE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.BUT AGAIN, IT'S ALL FUTURE DEVELOPMENT AT THIS POINT, SO.
AND WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO PUT THAT SEWER LATERAL IN FOR LOT TWO AT A FUTURE TIME WHEN LOT TWO IS DEVELOPED? YEAH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE FINE.
AND YOU WOULD NEED A HIGHWAY OCCUPANCY PERMIT TO DO THAT AT THAT? YES, IT'S A STATE HIGHWAY, BUT YEAH, THAT CAN ALL BE DONE AT THE SAME TIME.
AND IS THAT A, A CONDITION ON APPROVAL THAT THEY AGREE TO DO THAT? I MEAN, IF AS WE MOVE FORWARD, YOU KNOW, HE SAYS YES.
I MEAN, DID WE DOCUMENT? WELL, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO THAT ANYWAY IF THEY DID DEVELOPMENT, RIGHT? WELL, IF THEY DO THE DEVELOPMENT, THEY'LL NEED TO DO THAT.
AND A LOT OF TIMES THESE LETTERS ARE CITED IN THE RESOLUTIONS THAT, THAT ZACH WRITES.
SO THAT, THAT WOULD BE MEMORIALIZED IN THERE.
IT WOULD BE UP TO ZACH IF HE NEEDS EXTRA LANGUAGE.
WHO, WHO, UH, THE EXISTING HOUSE.
NOW, DID THE ALEXANDERS LIVE THERE NOW? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
AND I BELIEVE THE DAUGHTER IS THE APPLICANT FOR THE, FOR THE SUBDIVISION.
AND I BELIEVE SHE'S GONNA BE THE FUTURE OWNER OF LOT NUMBER TWO.
QUESTIONS? ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS OR PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
UM, SO WHAT DO WE DO HERE, ZACH? WHAT, WHAT'S OUR, WHAT'S OUR GOAL HERE TONIGHT? UM, I MEAN, WITH ANY LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION, YOU MAY MAKE YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ON, UH, WHETHER THEY SHOULD APPROVE OR NOT APPROVE THE APPLICATIONS.
UM, SO THIS AS THOUGH JEFF AND ANTHONY ARE FAIRLY SATISFIED WITH, UH, WITH THE PLANS AND WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING AND HOW THEY'VE DONE IT.
SO THEY, YOU'D BE LOOKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE BOARD? I AGREE.
THAT WOULD, THEY WOULD BE BECAUSE THE WAIVERS, YOU'D BE LOOKING FOR THE WAIVERS AT THIS TIME.
YOU WOULD BE LOOKING FOR THE WAIVER? YES.
THE WAIVERS AT THIS TIME, CORRECT.
THIS TIME THIS IS ONLY BECAUSE THIS IS A MINOR SUBDIVISION.
THIS IS, THEY'RE ONLY A ONE SHOT PROCESS.
SO WHAT I'LL REQUEST OF THE APPLICANT IS THAT THEY PUT TOGETHER A WAIVER LETTER DETAILING EACH WAIVER AND WHAT THEY'RE WAIVING BEFORE FOR THE BOARD SUPERVISORS, WHICH ISN'T GONNA BE UNTIL JANUARY.
BUT IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE GRANTING THE WAIVERS YOU JUST DISCUSSED, THAT'S ENOUGH FOR US AT THIS POINT.
AND IT SOUNDS LIKE IT WOULDN'T BE A WAIVER NECESSARILY AT THIS TIME, WOULD BE A DEFERRAL, RIGHT? RIGHT.
YOU COULD CALL IT A DEFERRAL IF YOU PREFER.
YEAH, I THINK, I MEAN, ONCE WE ACTUALLY HAVE THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN OR ONCE THEY HAVE SOME SORT OF PROPOSAL, THEN YEAH, THEN WE'LL DEAL WITH THAT THEN.
SO, SO HEARING ALL THAT, I'LL TAKE A MOTION FROM SOMEBODY TO, UH, IF YOU FEEL SO, TO, UH, SEND A RECOMMENDATION TO THE SUPERVISORS, UH, THAT THIS IS APPROVED, UH, PRELIMINARY APPROVAL AND, UH, AND, UH, OR, OR, AND WITH THE, UH, UNDERSTANDING THAT FUTURE DEVELOPMENT WOULD HAVE TO BE ALL, UH, THE REQUIREMENTS AT THAT TIME.
SO YOU ABLE TO MAKE THAT MOTION.
BOBS MADE A MOTION TO GIVE THE PRELIMINARY APPROVAL TO THE SUPERVISORS FOR THIS, UH, MINOR SUBDIVISION.
AND, UH, DO I HAVE A SECOND? UH, I'LL, I'LL SECOND THE MOTION.
TOM, I HAVE, JERRY IS SECONDED AND, UM, OUT OF NO OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM ANYBODY? COMMENT, YES.
UH, THIS IS ACTUALLY, YOU CALL IT A TWO LOT SUBDIVISION AND I GUESS IT IS A TWO LOT SUBDIVISION, EVEN THOUGH OUR AGENDA THINKS THERE'S ONE, BUT THAT COULD BE JUST, WELL, IT'S ONE ONE LOT.
UM, SO ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION MADE BY JERRY, SAY, AYE, MR. CHAIRMAN? YES.
NOT THAT WE'RE GONNA GET ANY, BUT WE SHOULD OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC.
OH, IT'S EASY ON THESE LITTLE ONES.
ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WANNA GET UP AND, UM, WRESTLE THIS GUY ARM WRESTLE RIGHT HERE ON THE TABLE.
ANY COMMENTS, SUGGESTIONS, IDEAS, CORRECTIONS? NONE TO BE HEARD.
OKAY, SO BACK TO, DO I HEAR A MOTION FROM JERRY? SECOND? FOR BOB? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
YOU CAN STICK AROUND FOR THE REST OF THE MEETING IF YOU WANT TO.
UH, LET'S MOVE ON NOW TO, UH, UH, HIGH REAL ESTATE.
HAVE MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENT AND OUR OWN MR. MULLIN THIS YEAR, TONIGHT TO, YES SIR.
DOESN'T STAY ON MEETING STARTS.
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JEFF IS OUR HIGH TECH PERSON AND THE BATTERY CHECKS FOR BATTERIES.UH, ED MULAH FROM RUBEN MAXWELL MAXIN, UH, HERE TONIGHT ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT'S ACQUISITION CORP HOLDING G-P-L-L-C AND TUMON LAND DEVELOPMENT CORP.
YOUR TENTATIVE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR PROPERTIES LOCATED AT 1731 THROUGH 1765 SOUTH COLLEGEVILLE ROAD.
WITH ME THIS EVENING ARE TONY SITES FROM ACQUISITION, ANDY, LAURA FROM UBON LAND, ERIC CHU FROM TPD, OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER PAUL LEOPARD, OUR CIVIL ENGINEER FROM ADE MILL AND ERIC HETZEL, OUR PLANNER.
WE'RE HERE TONIGHT TO DISCUSS THE TENTATIVE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN PROPOSING A BUY RIGHT DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR 472 RESIDENTIAL UNITS.
NOT SURE HOW THAT HAPPENED, BUT IT WAS 4 72 AND BOTH YOUR CONSULTANTS PICKED UP THE 4 72 AND IT WAS BASED ON 4 72.
UH, WE ARE UNDER THE DULY, FAIRLY DULY ADOPTED YMU
WE'VE REVIEWED THOSE LETTERS VERY CAREFULLY, VERY COMFORTABLE.
AND CONSIDERING THAT THIS IS A TENTATIVE PLAN, THE CHANGES WHEN WE GET INTO PRELIMINARY THAT WE'RE VERY COMFORTABLE INDICATING, WE WILL BE ABLE TO COMPLY WITH ALL THE REQUIREMENTS SET FORTH IN THOSE REVIEW LETTERS.
WE'LL BE ABLE TO RESOLVE ALL THOSE ISSUES IN A MANNER FAVORABLE TO THE COUNCIL CONSULTANTS.
UM, WHAT I WOULD PROPOSE TONIGHT IS I'M GOING TO HAVE PAUL WEB DESCRIBE THE PLAN AND WHAT IT'S ABOUT, AND THEN I'M GOING TO ASK ERIC CHU TO DISCUSS THE TRAFFIC IMPLICATIONS.
AND THEN I'M GONNA HAVE ERIC, ERIC HETZEL TO TALK ABOUT THE FISCAL IMPACT ON THE TOWNSHIP AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
AND ONCE THAT OCCURRED, WE BE PREPARED.
THERE, THERE ANY QUESTIONS THAT THE BOARD HAS OR THE PUBLIC HAS.
SO WITH THAT, LET ME CALL PAUL.
PAUL, YOU WANT TO COME UP, SIR? GOOD EVENING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
AGAIN, MY NAME IS PAUL LEOPARD.
I'M WITH THE ENGINEERING FIRM OF NATE.
NO, JUST FOR THE RECORD, TO CLARIFY, UM, I'M A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT.
I WORK FOR AN ENGINEERING TOOL.
I THOUGHT I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.
UM, IN TERMS OF THE TOTAL LAND AREAS, ABOUT 29 ACRES, THERE ARE, UH, EXISTING, UM, SIX LOTS THAT WILL BE CONSOLIDATED TO GENERATE THAT 29 ACRE, UH, LOT AREA.
UM, AS ED MENTIONED, THE UM, CONCEPT PLAN IS BASED ENTIRELY ON THE YORK EAST MIXED USE ORDINANCE, WHICH WAS A SPINOFF FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
AND THE PLAN THAT YOU, UM, ARE SEEING IS BASED IN PREDICATED ON THE ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS FOR MULTIFAMILY, UH, APARTMENTS, WHICH IS PERMITTED USE BY WRIGHT UNDER THE ORDINANCE.
UM, THE SITE PLAN IS, UM, CON, UH, CON, WELL CONFIGURED WITH BOTH, UH, UH, OFF STREET PARKING AND FOUR RESIDENTIAL APARTMENT BUILDINGS.
UM, THERE ARE, UM, TWO MAIN ENTRIES, UH, TO THE SITE FOR VEHICULAR ACCESS.
ONE DIRECTLY OPPOSING THE SIGNALED INTERSECTION AT PER AND BOULEVARD.
THERE'S A THREE LANE CROSS SECTION AT THAT DRIVEWAY IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE INBOUND TRAFFIC FROM BOTH THE EAST AND WEST ENTRIES FROM, UM, ROUTE 29, UH, EXIT WISE.
AT THE MAIN ENTRANCE, THERE'S A TWO LANE CROSS SECTION TO ALLOW FOR THROUGH AND RIGHT LANE, UH, AS WELL AS DEDICATED LEFT TURN LANE.
THERE'S A SECOND ACCESS ON THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF THE SITE PLAN, WHICH WOULD PROVIDE ANOTHER ENTRANCE.
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PLANNED, IT'S A FULL ACCESS DRIVEWAY AS YOU ARE AWARE.UM, ROUTE 29 IS A STATE HIGHWAY, SO HIGHWAY OCCUPANCY PERMITS WILL BE REQUIRED.
AND ERIC'S HERE TO TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC.
UM, AFTERWARDS, UH, I'M SORRY.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO BACK A LITTLE BIT ON THAT.
DID YOU, I I'M NOT GETTING REFOCUS.
THIS THE EMPHASIZE THE DEVELOPMENT AREA TO FORGET THE THANK.
SO WOULD THIS BE EASIER TO USE? YES, I THINK SO.
WELL, SO YOU COULD ALSO GET RIGHT UP ON THE MIC AND SPEAK.
SO WHERE, TAKING OFF THERE, SO THIS IS THE ENTRANCE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS AND EXIT AND ENTRANCE.
THIS IS THE MAIN, UH, THE MAIN ACCESS WAY.
RIGHT? I DESCRIBED OPPOSING, UM, UH, PROCUREMENT BOULEVARD, IF THAT SIGNALIZE IT STRAIGHT ACROSS FROM, UM, CORRECT.
AND SO, SO, UM, SO THAT'S REALLY, RIGHT NOW, THAT'S THE ONLY EXIT.
I WOULD YOU SAY MAYBE THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT'S THE MAIN, THAT'S THE MAIN AXIS.
AND THEN THERE'S A SECONDARY AXIS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF 29.
UH, THAT'S A SMALLER, UH, TWO LANE CROSS SECTION FOR BOTH INBOUND AND OUTBOUND.
UM, THAT WOULD BE STOP CONTROLLED AT LOCATION VERSUS A SIGNAL.
AND ERIC, WE'LL GET INTO MORE DETAIL ABOUT THE ROADWAY CONFIGURATIONS IN THE LANE IMPROVEMENTS.
UH, AS A FOLLOW UP, I JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT WHERE THE MAIN POINTED EGRESS, UH, INTO THE SITE, UH, IS BASED ON THE SITE PLANT.
AND THE EXPECTATION IS THAT A MAJORITY OF THE TRAFFIC WILL BE INBOUND AT THAT SIGNALED INTERSECTION.
UM, ONCE, UH, INTERIOR TO THE SITE, UH, TO THE NORTH IS WHAT WE REFER TO AS A PROJECT TEAM AS CONDO ONE.
UH, AND THEN CONDO TWO ARE THE THREE BUILDINGS CLUSTERED TO THE SOUTH, SOUTH SIDE.
THAT'S SIMPLY FOR THE OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE OF THE, OF THE COMPLEX, UH, BY THE TWO OWNERSHIPS.
UM, IN THE BACK OF THE SITE AGAIN, UM, WE'VE GOT, UM, APPROXIMATELY 16 ACRES OF GREEN SPACE, WHICH IS, UM, IN EXCESS OF, UH, 55% OF THE TRACT AREA RESERVED HAS GREEN SPACE AND OPEN SPACE.
UM, AND, UM, OTHER ASPECTS OF THE PLAN RELATED TO OPEN SPACE, AND I'LL GET INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT AS PART OF THE APARTMENT.
UM, AND THE ORDINANCE STANDARDS, UM, THE DENSITY THAT'S PERMITTED, UM, UH, IS UP TO 26 DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE BASED ON THE ORDINANCE WITH, UM, DENSITY BONUSES.
UM, WE ARE PROPOSING, UH, 23 UNITS PER ACRE, WHICH IS UNDER THE MAXIMUM.
UM, AND THE WAY THAT YOU ACHIEVE THAT DENSITY IS BY PROVIDING FOR SITE AMENITIES, UM, THE SITE AMENITIES THAT WE'RE OFFERING, UM, INCORPORATE, YOU KNOW, UH, COMMUNITY DARK DOG PARK, UH, FOR RESIDENTS TO ENJOY WITH THEIR FOUR-LEGGED FRIENDS, UH, A POOL AND AN OUTDOOR AMENITY AREA FOR THE CONDO UNIT NUMBER ONE, UM, THE SECOND POOL AND AMENITY AREA IN THE COURTYARD OF CONDO NUMBER TWO AND INTERIOR TO THAT, WE EXPECT THAT THAT WILL BE FULLY DEVELOPED AS PART OF THE LAND, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN TO, UH, PROVIDE LOUNGE AREAS, SEATING AREAS, AND GRILL STATIONS.
UM, OTHER AMENITIES THAT ARE OFFERED IN BOTH CONDO ONE AND TWO IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THE D THE DENSITY BONUS, UM, WILL INCLUDE, EXCUSE ME, WILL INCLUDE, UM, VEHICLE CHARGING STATIONS.
THEY HAVEN'T BEEN DESIGNATED ON THE PLAN, BUT THEY WILL BE AS WE ADVANCE THE PLAN AND THE PROVISION OF, MAKE SURE I DIDN'T FORGIVE ONE.
UM, YOU KNOW, UM, UM, UH, WITH THE PROVISION, PROVISION OF THOSE AMENITIES, UM, WE ACHIEVE THE NECESSARY, UM, UH, DENSITY BONUSES.
UM, WHAT I ALSO WANTED TO POINT OUT IS THAT THE BUILDINGS ARE, ARE FIVE STORY BUILDINGS, UM, WITH ONE EXCEPTION ON THE BACKSIDE, RELATIVE TO SOME GRADING CONSIDERATIONS.
THIS BACK FACADE WILL HAVE A, A BASEMENT REVEAL.
AND SO THAT'S GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN FIVE, UH, STORIES.
SO THAT'S A FIVE STORIES PLUS ON THE BACKSIDE, BUT THAT'S ON THE INTERIOR, UH, AWAY FROM THE ROADWAY THOROUGH REPAIR AND INTERIORS OF THE SITE.
SO THERE SHOULD BE LITTLE IMPACT, UM, UH, VISUALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, FROM THE RESIDENCE VIEW, UH, INTO THE PROPERTY FROM, UM, FROM THE STREET STATE.
UM, THE DEVELOPMENT AREA, THE, IN TERMS OF THIS FRONTAGE, AGAIN, THE ORDINANCE PRESCRIBES WHERE THE BUILDINGS WANT BE CITED BASED ON THE
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NO MORE THAN 600 FEET BACK.AND WE COMPLY WITH THAT REQUIREMENT.
SO THE ORDINANCE REALLY WANTS TO PUSH THIS, UH, TRANSITION, UH, UH, RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT UP TOWARDS, UH, THE FRONTAGE VERSUS INTO THE REAR, WHICH IS A POSITIVE FOR US BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE THE PROPERTY IS MORE SENSITIVE AND WE'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO HOLD THAT IN RESERVE AS OPEN SPACE.
UM, SO THAT'S THE KIND OF THE SITE PLAN ARRANGEMENT.
UM, PARKING WISE, THERE'S, UH, 820 PARKING SPACES PROVIDED ON THE SITE THAT EXCEEDS THE 1.7 PARKING SPACES THAT ARE REQUIRED BY CODE BY A A COUPLE.
UM, SO WE'RE A LITTLE BIT OVER PARKED, UH, BUT THOSE PARKING FIELDS ARE, ARE DISTRIBUTED SO THAT RESIDENTS HAVE CONVENIENT ACCESS TO, TO PARKING.
AND AGAIN, THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE, WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, WITH RESPECT TO, UM, MOVING FORWARD TOWARDS LAND DEVELOPMENT AND STORM WATER, STORM WATER'S, UH, IMPORTANT TO US AS AN ENGINEERING FIRM AND ALSO IMPORTANT TO THE TOWNSHIP.
AND THE TOWNSHIP HAS, UH, UH, RATHER, UH, STRICT AND APPROPRIATE STORMWATER VENTURES, UM, WHICH INCLUDE A, A REDUCTION COMPONENT, WHICH IS IMPORTANT TO SHARE BECAUSE WHAT THAT DOES FROM A DISCHARGE PERSPECTIVE IS THAT IT, IT, IT, IT CLOSES UP OUR, OUR, OUR FAUCET TO DISCHARGE AND, AND FORCES US TO HOLD MORE STORMWATER ON SITE.
SO WE'RE NOT ONLY MITIGATING OUR IMPACTS, BUT WE'RE DOING A LITTLE BIT MORE.
SO WE EXPECT TO FULLY COMPLY, NOT ONLY WITH THE TOWNSHIP STORMWATER ORDINANCES, UH, WHICH EXCEED THE STATE REQUIREMENTS, BUT THERE'S ALSO A STATE NPDS PERMIT, WHICH, UM, WE, WE WILL, UM, COMPORT WITH AS WELL AS FULL ENS MEASURES MOVING FORWARD.
UM, UM, WITH THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY CONSERVATION DISTRICT, UM, WE HAVE CITED AND DONE SOME LOOPS.
WE'VE CITED WE'RE GONNA NEED TO RELY ON UNDERGROUND STORMWATER FACILITIES.
AND WE'VE, UH, CITED, UM, UH, MULTIPLE FACILITIES UNDERNEATH THE PARKING LOT, UM, THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPMENT, UH, IN ORDER TO MANAGE AND ATTENUATE OUR DISCHARGE.
UH, WE'VE DONE SOME PRELIMINARY TESTING AND WE'RE FEELING, UM, CONFIDENT ABOUT, UH, WHAT WE CAN ACHIEVE ONCE WE MOVE FORWARD WITH, UM, WITH THE ENGINEERING EXERCISE.
UM, IS THAT, THAT LAKE OR WHATEVER IT IS, IS THAT YOUR RETENTION BASIN? UH, NO, THAT'S AN EXISTING POND AT THIS LOCATION, WHICH WE WON'T BE, UM, USING FOR STORMWATER PURPOSES THAT WILL JUST REMAIN.
YOU, YOU MENTIONED THE, I'M, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD.
I'M, YOU MENTIONED THE BUILDINGS ARE FIVE WILL BE FIVE, FIVE STORES.
WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE OVERALL HEIGHT AND THEN UP? SO, UM, WE'LL BE UNDER THE 65 FEET.
THE ORDINANCE ALLOWS FOR A BUILDING HEIGHT OF 60 AND UP TO 65 FEET.
OUR EXPECTATION IS THAT ON THAT BACKSIDE, WE'LL BE AT THE 65, BUT WE'LL BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE ORDINANCE.
ALRIGHT, WHY DON'T YOU TELL US ABOUT THE TRAFFIC HERE.
GOOD EVENING, ERIC O CHUCK WITH TPD.
LEMME KNOW IF THIS MIC IS PICKING ME UP ALL NOW A LITTLE BIT.
UH, SO JUST, JUST TO ORIENT YOU WITH THE, UH, CONCEPT PLAN THAT'S ON THE SCREEN HERE.
AND THIS, UH, PLAN RUNS LEFT TO RIGHT HERE.
YOU HAVE WAWA HERE IN COLLEGEVILLE.
DOWN HERE IS THE
UM, WE, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERING THIS IS A TENTATIVE PLAN, IT'S INTERESTING THAT WE'VE GOTTEN, UH, A CONCEPT OF THIS MAGNITUDE, UH, ALREADY FOR TRAFFIC.
UH, WE'VE DONE A LOT OF DUE DILIGENCE, UH, IN ASSOCIATION WITH HIGH, MET WITH PENDOT, THE TOWNSHIP STAFF PROVIDED THEM SOME PRELIMINARY INFORMATION.
UM, WHEN I WAS CONTACTED FOR THE PROJECT, I KNEW CERTAINLY OF THE YORK STATION, UH, PROJECT, UH, KNEW OF THE WAWA INTERSECTION.
AND THIS SECTION OF 29 IS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT WAS WIDENED AND IMPROVED IN THIS LOCATION IN ADVANCE OF FUTURE LANES ON 29.
OBVIOUSLY THOSE LANES WERE IDENTIFIED AS PART OF YERKES DOWN HERE, AND THOSE IMPROVEMENTS ARE BEING DONE, BUT IN BETWEEN, THERE'S KIND OF A NO MAN'S LANE WHERE YOU HAVE A THREE LANE CROSS SECTION.
YOU HAVE TWO LANES TRAVELING NORTHBOUND INTO COLLEGEVILLE, BUT ONLY ONE LANE TRAVELING SOUTHBOUND.
UH, ALSO AT, AT PERM AND BOULEVARD, WHEN YOU'RE ENTERING PERM AND WOODS HERE, THERE'S NO LEFT TURN LANE TO GET IN CURRENTLY TODAY.
SO WHEN THERE'S JUST ONE PERSON WAITING TO TURN LEFT TO
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GET IN THERE, THEY HAVE ONE ACCESS POINT, IT BLOCKS UP 29 TO THE NORTH UP THROUGH THE, THE, UH, WAWA INTERSECTION.SO KNOWING THAT, AND, UH, IN OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH PENNDOT AND THE TOWNSHIP, WE IDENTIFIED, UH, THIS CONCEPT PLAN TO KIND OF CONNECT THE DOTS BETWEEN THE IMPROVEMENTS, THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WERE DONE IN COLLEGEVILLE SOME TIME AGO, AND THOSE PLANNED DOWN AT HOGWOOD ROAD.
UH, SO IN ESSENCE, UH, WE'LL BE WIDENING 29 FOR A FIVE LANE CROSS SECTION THROUGH THIS AREA.
UH, IT'S TWO LANES IN EACH DIRECTION, UH, ALL THE WAY FROM COLLEGE DIRECT THROUGH THE HO INTERSECTION.
UH, WE'LL BE TYING INTO THE SIGNAL, OBVIOUSLY AT PERKY AND BOULEVARD HERE.
UH, IN ADDITION, WE'LL BE PRO PROVIDING A CENTER LEFT TURN LANE ALL THE WAY DOWN THROUGH THE LIMITS OF, OF THE WIDENING.
IT'LL CONNECT THE PER AND BOULEVARD INTERSECTION LEFT TURN LANE WITH THE LEFT TURN LANE THAT'S PLANNED DOWN IN HO ROAD.
SO ALL OF WHAT YOU SHOW THERE IN THE DARK, UH, BLACK IS THE NEW PAVING, RIGHT? CORRECT.
SO, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY WIDENING TO THE SITE SIDE WON'T INTERRUPT THE EAST SIDE, I'LL CALL IT, OF 29 IN THIS LOCATION.
UM, AGAIN, WE'RE IN PRELIMINARY STAGE.
IT'S IS A CONCEPT ON AN AERIAL AS YOU CAN WELL SEE.
UH, SO OUR NEXT STEP WILL BE SUBMITTING A FORMAL TRAFFIC STUDY TO PEN ON THE TOWNSHIP.
THEY'LL REVIEW THAT INFORMATION IN THE CONTEXT OF THESE IMPROVEMENTS AND THEN, UH, WE'LL MOVE ON TO DESIGN FROM THERE.
ANY QUESTION BEFORE THE GENTLEMEN LEAVE? GO AHEAD.
ANY QUESTION? HAVE YOU DISCUSSED THIS AT ALL WITH PENNDOT? YES, WE'VE HAD DELIBER WHAT'S THEIR, WHAT'S THEIR PRELIMINARY INITIAL, THEIR FEEDBACK WAS, YEAH, THIS IS WHAT WE ENVISIONED FOR THIS CORRIDOR,
AND IS PENN GONNA BE RESPONSIBLE TO MAKE THESE IMPROVEMENTS OR ARE YOU NO, THIS IS SOLELY ON THE APPLICANT.
AGAIN, I'M ERIC HESSEL WITH EH, CREATIVE SERVICES.
UH, SEEN ME HERE BEFORE, UH, SEVERAL OCCASIONS RECENTLY.
SO, UM, I WAS ASKED TO DO A FISCAL IMPACT ANALYSIS OF THIS PLAN.
UH, IT'S NOT REQUIRED BY THE CODE IN THIS DISTRICT, BUT WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO DEMONSTRATE, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW THIS, THIS PROPOSAL IMPACTS THE, UH, THE TOWNSHIP AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
BUT FROM A POPULATION STANDPOINT AND A FISCAL STANDPOINT, UM, THE WAY YOU'RE LOOKING OUT ON THE SCREEN, JEFF, GO TO THE OTHER SUMMARY THAT IS SIDE BY SIDE NEXT ONE.
THAT ONE THAT'S A LITTLE, MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO READ.
'CAUSE ALL THE, THE NOTES ARE SIDE BY SIDE.
IT'S A LOT OF NUMBERS TO LOOK AT.
UH, BUT WHAT THIS CHART SHOWS, UM, IN THE COLUMNS, UH, PAUL MENTIONED THERE'S CONDOMINIUM UNIT ONE, CONDOMINIUM UNIT TWO, THAT ARE UNDER SEPARATE OWNERSHIP.
I MODELED THEM SEPARATELY AND THEN ADDED THEM UP IN THE RIGHT HAND COLUMN AS A TOTAL.
UM, BEING AT THE TOP OF THE, UH, OF THIS COLUMN, YOU'LL SEE THAT'S NOTING THAT THERE'S 472 RESIDENTIAL UNITS GOING DOWN.
UH, THE ESTIMATED MARKET VALUE THAT DRIVES THE ASSESSED VALUE, UM, OF $54.3 MILLION ROUGHLY.
THAT'S THE NUMBER UPON WHICH THE REAL ESTATE TAXES ARE LEVIED.
UM, MY MODEL, UM, IS ONE THAT WAS DEVELOPED BY RUTGERS UNIVERSITY.
SO WE PROJECT THE POPULATION, TOTAL POPULATION OF THE RESIDENCES, AND THEN THAT THE, UH, THE COUNT, I'M SORRY, THE TOWNSHIP, UM, THE TOWNSHIP COST, AND THEN WE PROJECT THE TOTAL SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN POPULATION, WHICH DRIVES THE COST TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
HOW'D YOU, HOW'D YOU CALCULATE THAT NUMBER? THAT'S SEEMS EXTREMELY THOUGH.
WELL, WE ACTUALLY, WE USED, ONCE AGAIN, THE, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S, UH, DEMOGRAPHIC MULTIPLIERS FROM THEIR MOST RECENT DEMOGRAPHIC STUDY THAT WAS DELIVERED TO THEM IN NOVEMBER.
UH, WE MET WITH THE, UH, SCHOOL DISTRICT SUPERINTENDENT YESTERDAY WHO, UM, AGREED WITH US THAT THIS SEEMS, UH, TO BE COMMENSURATE WITH WHAT THEY'RE USED TO SEEING IN THIS TYPE OF A DEVELOPMENT.
UM, SHOULD NOTE THAT THIS NUMBER OF 67 STUDENTS, UH, AS I MENTIONED, CAME FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS DEMOGRAPHIC MULTIPLIERS.
UH, WE CONSIDER TO BE ACTUALLY CONSERVATIVE.
UM, THESE OPERATORS, UH, AUDUBON AND I ASSOCIATES ACTUALLY HAVE THEIR OWN, UH, EXPERIENCE, UH, THAT THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO PRESENT TO US.
UH, JEFF, IF YOU COULD GO TO THAT, A COMPARISON.
THIS, UH, THIS CHART SHOWS A DEMOGRAPHIC MULTIPLIER COMPARISON BASED ON, UH, THE SPRINGPORT AREA SCHOOL DISTRICT MULTIPLIERS FROM THE DEMOGRAPHIC STUDY THAT PROJECTS 67 UNITS, UM,
[00:30:01]
I'M SORRY, 67 SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN IN, IN THE 472 UNITS.UM, WE ASKED, UH, AUDUBON TO PROVIDE US WITH, UH, THE ACTUAL CENSUS OF SCHOOL AGED STUDENTS AT THE DENATE PARKSIDE BUILDING IN PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
UM, AND THIS IS BASED ON ACTUAL NUMBERS AS OF I BELIEVE DECEMBER 1ST OR DECEMBER 2ND.
UM, AND IT IS NOTING THAT THERE ARE FIVE STUDENTS, FIVE SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN, THE ONE BEDROOM UNITS THAT ARDEN 28 IN THE TWO BEDROOM UNITS.
AND THERE ARE NO SCHOOL AGE STUDENTS IN THE THREE BEDROOM UNITS, UH, TOTAL OF 30.
IF YOU USE THE MULTIPLIERS THAT YOU DERIVED FROM AR PARKSIDE, IT ACTUALLY YIELDS 33 STUDENTS IN THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT.
WE CHOOSE TO MAKE OUR MODEL, UH, BASED ON THE 67 THAT IS, UH, USED BY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND FEEL THAT IT'S, I I JUST FIND THAT TO BE, YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH THE FACT I I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME.
I I JUST FIND IT TO BE JUST NOT VERY INTUITIVE AT ALL.
I WOULD'VE THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, AVERAGE OF ONE PER UNIT, WELL, THIS IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF GET TO THE THREE BEDROOM UNITS.
THIS IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF MULTI A MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT.
I, WELL, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY THREE BEDROOM UNITS, HOW MANY TWO BEDROOM UNITS HAVE ONE BEDROOM UNITS, A THREE BEDROOM UNIT TO BE IMPLIES YOU'VE GOT MORE THAN TWO PEOPLE, WHICH BE TWO CHILDREN, THREE CHILDREN.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER IS, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO DISPUTE THE FACTS AS YOU PRESENT THEM.
I'M JUST SAYING, I JUST FIND IT HARD TO CONCEIVE THAT THAT'S REALLY WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
IT'S WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE SAYING.
I MEAN, YOU'RE SAYING I I SEE THAT THE COMPARISON TO THE OUR YEAH, I, I, NO, I'M JUST SAYING THAT THE MODEL THAT THEY'RE USING SHOWS THAT THE THREE BEDROOMS TYPICALLY HAPPEN.
YOU KNOW, SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN 0.87 VERSUS THE OTHER.
I MEAN, YOUR INTUITION BACKED UP BY THE DATA, BUT THEY'RE SAYING FROM REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE.
AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT STUDY WAS JUST UPDATED IN NOVEMBER OF 2024.
SO THESE ARE VERY CURRENT NUMBERS.
I BELIEVE YOU'VE GOTTEN THIS DATA FROM THE SUPERINTENDENT FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
I JUST, JUST PERSONALLY JUST FIND IT HARD TO, SO ITS THE SAME ARGUMENT WE HAD WHEN, UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN PARKHOUSE THE SAME ARGUMENT.
THEY COME IN AND SAID THERE WAS ONLY GONNA BE WHAT ACCURATE THE NUMBER, NUMBER 50 KIDS IN ALL PARKHOUSE.
AND WE SAID THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
BUT THEY'RE QUOTING OR CITING THE NUMBERS THAT THE, THE SCHOOL BOARD IS GIVING THEM.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY FIGURE IT EITHER.
I KNOW IT'S REALLY HARD TO SWALLOW, BUT WE DID THE SAME ARGUMENT WITH PARKHOUSE, EXACT SAME ARGUMENT.
AND THE SCHOOL BOARD NUMBERS WERE BASED ON A LOCAL STUDY THAT WAS CONDUCTED BY ECON SOLUTIONS, UM, FOR WHAT THEY CONSIDERED TO BE COMPARABLE COMMUNITIES TO UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP IN, UH, MONTGOMERY CHESTER AND BERKS COUNTY.
SO IT'S NOT, THEY'RE NOT PULLING IT FROM SOME NATIONAL AVERAGE OR SOME BROADER COMMONWEALTH AVERAGE.
IT'S ACTUALLY LOCALLY DERIVED MULTIPLIERS BASED ON THESE HOUSING TYPES.
SO WE FEEL PRETTY CONFIDENT THAT, UH, THAT THEY REPRESENT A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE ON HIGH END.
UM, SO WE FEEL THAT OUR COST ESTIMATES, GOING BACK TO THE OTHER SLIDE, JEFF, THE SUMMARY, JEFF, WE HAD TO SAY ARGUMENT TWO WITH PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
YOU KNOW, THE APARTMENTS THAT WERE BUILT THERE, I FORGET WHAT THEY'RE CALLED, BUT ARDEN.
HAS ANYBODY EVER FOLLOWED BACK UP WITH HIM TO SEE HOW MANY KIDS, I MEAN, I KNOW THAT'S STEVE, BUT THAT'S THIS NUMBER AND THAT'S THE EXACT, THAT'S THE KID.
SO NOW I HAVE REACHED OUT TO MADISON PERSONALLY WHEN I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THIS THERE, I DIDN'T DO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF AUDIT THEY DID HERE NECESSARILY IF THEY CALL HER A CENSUS THAT THEY CALL IT.
BUT I TALKED TO THE MANAGEMENT OVER AT MADISON, WHICH IS ABOUT 250 UNITS.
SHE, THE, THE MANAGER SIX MONTHS AGO SAID THERE WERE NINE STUDENTS TOTAL.
SHE WATCHED 'EM AT THE BOSTON NINE STUDENTS.
SO WE'RE NOT ACCOUNTING FOR NECESSARILY KIDS THAT GET DRIVEN TO SCHOOL.
BUT NINE KIDS AT HER APARTMENT COMPLEX WERE AT THE BUS.
I HAD TO PICK UP MY GRANDSON YESTERDAY AT THE, AT THE UH, UH, SIXTH GRADE CENTER.
AND THE FIRST TIME I HAD TO DO THAT, UM, I WAITED 20 MINUTES.
SO WHERE ARE ALL THESE KIDS COMING FROM? WELL, WELL, I MEAN, I, I'M NOT HERE WHERE THEY, I'M NOT HERE TO MAKE THEIR CASE FOR 'EM, BUT, BUT WITH A LOT OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, I KNOW THAT MY DEVELOPMENT NOW, MY KID IS UN OFFERED OF US BECAUSE WE ARE WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE THAT THERE'S A CLEAR WALKING PATH TO THE SCHOOL.
NOW WHEN I PICKED MY KID UP AND THEN HE'S IN THE EIGHTH GRADE CENTER AND THAT'S THE SCHOOL DISTRICT POLICY.
ANYBODY IN VODA CANNOT GET A BUS.
[00:35:01]
IN HIGHLANDS CAN GET A BUS.BECAUSE YOU ARE I GUESS 200 YARDS FARTHER DOWN THE ROAD.
UM, WITH, I KNOW ANECDOTALLY FROM ME PICKING HIM UP AND DROPPING HIM OFF AND FRIENDS AND BECAUSE MY SON DOESN'T KNOW IN EIGHTH GRADE, THERE WAS A VARIETY OF REASONS THAT PEOPLE WOULD GET PICKED UP, WHETHER THE KID DIDN'T LIKE THE BUS OR WHETHER IT WAS AFTER SCHOOL APPOINTMENTS OR A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
I MEAN, THERE WAS NO RHYME OR REASON NECESSARILY TO SAY, THIS IS WHY SOMEONE'S GETTING PICKED UP, WHY THIS IS SOMEONE'S GETTING, TAKING THE BUS.
BUT YES, IT IS, IT'S AN INTERESTING, UM, EXERCISE TO GO PICK YOUR CHILD UP AT THE 5, 6, 7.
AND, AND I DON'T KNOW THOSE KIDS ARE COMING FROM, BUT THEY'RE, THERE'RE A LOT OF KIDS STAYING OUTSIDE LOOKING FOR RIDES.
UM, THE OTHER THING THAT I JUST WANTED TO MENTION IS, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, I, YOU GUYS, YOU KNOW, AND I KNOW YOU'RE GETTING THIS FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD AND I KNOW THEY'RE GIVING YOU THIS DATA AND ALL STUFF.
I'VE ALWAYS QUESTIONED WHY NOBODY FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD EVER COMES TO THESE MEETINGS AND CAN STAND UP AND SAY, YOU KNOW, HERE'S OUR SIDE NOT BE YOU ARE PRESENTING THEIR YOUR SIDE.
I'M JUST MAKING A PUBLIC COMMENT THAT WE NEVER SEEN ANYBODY FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD.
NOW THE LAST, THIS PAST YEAR, WE'VE LOOKING AT THREE MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS IN OUR TOWNSHIP AND WE'VE NEVER SEEN ANYBODY FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD.
AND AGAIN, THIS IS A PUBLIC COMMENT.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT ANYTHING AGAINST YOU THAT YOU'RE JUST DOING YOUR JOB.
AND I UNDERSTAND, BUT IT COULD BE AT LEAST TWO OF THOSE THREE DEVELOPMENTS.
ERIC WAS INVOLVED AND MET WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT BEFORE HE CAME HERE.
SO THEY KNEW WHAT WE WERE DOING.
AND 'CAUSE THEY'RE GONNA MAKE MONEY ON J JEFF, JEFF MAKES, YOU KNOW, JEFF MAKES SURE THEY'RE INCLUDED IN ALL OUR COMMUNICATIONS AND ALL THESE KIND OF STUFF.
I, I'M GETTING PUBLIC COMMENT JUST TO COMMENT AS A RESIDENT, THAT WHY NOBODY FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD EVER COMES TO THESE AND SAYS, YES, WE AGREE WITH THIS.
WE THINK IT WILL HAVE A LITTLE IMPACT.
JUST A COMPARABLE, IT'S PROBABLY THE SAME REASON THAT NO RESIDENTS GO TO SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS PROBABLY THERE
GOT AN EXCEPTION WAS SHOWS AS THE COMPARABLE, UH, DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE IT'S ALSO AN AUDUBON OR ARE THE FINISHES GOING TO BE THE SAME OR THE SAME QUALITY OF APARTMENTS? IT'S A VERY SIMILAR TYPE OF A DEVELOPMENT IN TERMS OF ITS, UH, LEVEL OF AMENITIES.
THE, THE RENTS AND, AND JUST THE OVERALL, UM, THE OVERALL FUEL OF THE, OF THE BUILDING.
I, I, I'M SURE SOMEBODY COULD SPEAK BETTER TO THAT.
WHO'S ON, UH, WELL, WHY DON'T WE FINISH THIS AND THEN, THEN I'LL ASK, UH, TONY SITES TO DESCRIBE TO YOU WHAT IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE.
'CAUSE THE FEELING TO ME IS VERY DIFFERENT.
'CAUSE THIS IS KIND OF, YOU CALLED IT NO MAN LAND, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT CALL, YOU KNOW, PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
SO TO ME, THAT'S NOT APPLE TO TOWN.
JEFF, WE GET THE OTHER SLIDE BACK.
SO I WON'T BELABOR THE THE NUMBERS, BUT WHAT, WHAT THESE, WHAT EACH ROAD, EACH ROW OF THIS CHART SHOWS IS THE DIFFERENT, UH, REVENUE SOURCES THAT ARE COMING TO THE TOWNSHIP.
UH, AND THEN A TOTAL COST NUMBER BASED ON, UH, THE TOWNSHIP BUDGET AND THE WAY THE TOWNSHIP SPENDS ITS MONEY TODAY PROJECTED ON A PER CAPITA BASIS.
AS I MENTIONED, IT'S A PER CAPITA COST MODEL.
UM, AND WHAT THAT SHOWS IS THAT THE REVENUES TO THE TOWNSHIP EXCEED EXPENDITURES, UH, BY ABOUT $111,000 ANNUALLY, UH, UH, REPRESENTS A NET POSITIVE FISCAL IMPACT TO THE TOWNSHIP ON AN ANNUAL BASIS.
UM, GOING DOWN, LOOKING AT THE SAME TYPE OF ANALYSIS FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, THE VARIOUS REVENUE SOURCES, UH, TOTALED UP, UM, EXCEED THE COSTS BY ABOUT $1.1 MILLION ANNUALLY.
UM, AGAIN, PER CAPITA COST MODEL, BASED ON THE 67 SCHOOL AGE STUDENTS THAT ARE PROJECTED USING THE SCHOOL DISTRICT MULTIPLIERS.
UM, IF WE WERE TO, UM, APPLY THE, THE ATE PARK SIDE MULTIPLIERS, THAT WOULD REDUCE THE NUMBER OF SCHOOL KIDS JUST ABOUT BY HALF, UM, DECREASING THE COST TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT ON AN ANNUAL BASIS, UM, BY APPROXIMATELY $600,000 ANNUALLY.
SO IT INCREASE, INCREASE THE NET FISCAL IMPACT.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE THINK TO BE MORE ACCURATE PROJECTION POPULATION, UH, THAT FISCAL IMPACT TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WOULD INCREASE TO OVER $1.6 MILLION A YEAR.
UH, LET ME HAVE TONY SITES JUST TELL YOU ABOUT THE QUALITY OF CONSTRUCTION, WHAT YOU PROPOSED, TONY, JUST ONE COMMENT.
YOU, YOU SHOW, UM, THE, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT EXPENDITURES OF 1.2 MILLION FOR THOSE FEW NUMBER OF KIDS.
HOW DO THEY COME UP WITH 1.2 MILLION FOR THOSE NUMBER OF CHILDREN? I MEAN, THEY DON'T HAVE TO BUILD SCHOOLS.
I MEAN, THERE'S NO MORE TEACHERS.
I MEAN, THEY COULD ABSORB, I'M JUST CURIOUS.
IT'S NOT BASED ON A CAPITAL, UH, ANY SORT OF CAPITAL EXPENSES.
[00:40:01]
THAT'S, THIS IS BASED ON THE WAY THE TOWNSHIP SPENDS MONEY PER STUDENT TODAY.UH, WHAT THE SCHOOL DID, HOW THE SCHOOL BOARD OR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT SPENDS THE MONEY IN TOWNSHIP DOES, I'M SORRY, THE, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, I APOLOGIZE.
THE SCHOOL DISTRICT SPENDS, UH, THEIR MONEY TODAY ON THE BASIS OF ABOUT $18,000 PER STUDENT.
AND, UM, IT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR, YOU KNOW, CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS.
TONY SITES WITH TONY SITES WITH, UH, HIGH REAL ESTATE GROUP, UM, IN LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA.
VERY HAPPY TO BE HERE TONIGHT.
I REPRESENT ONE OF THE APPLICANTS ON THIS PROJECT.
UM, THIS IS A JOINT DEVELOPMENT PROJECT.
I'M PLEASED, UH, THAT MY COLLEAGUE FROM, UH, AUDUBON IS HERE WITH ME THIS EVENING.
AND, UM, THIS IS, I THINK I WOULD HOPE, UM, YOU WILL COME TO SEE IS A, A REALLY SOLID AND GREAT COLLABORATION BETWEEN, UM, TWO, UH, PENNSYLVANIA COMPANIES THAT HAVE A VERY COMPARABLE HISTORY, FAMILY OWNED COMPANIES, UH, UH, HIGH STARTED 90 YEARS AGO IN LANCASTER, NOW FOUNDATION OWNED FAMILIES, FAMILY OWNED, AND NOW FOUNDATION OWNED.
UM, AND THEN AUDUBON, A FAMILY OWNED COMPANY WITH DEEP ROOTS IN THIS AREA AND, UH, IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
SO WE'RE COLLABORATING TOGETHER.
UH, YOU HEARD THE DESCRIPTION OF THE PROJECT AND THE TWO CONDOMINIUM UNITS.
UM, THE, OF THE 472 UNITS, THE NORTHERN BUILDING, IT WILL BE AUDUBONS AND THAT'S 175 UNITS.
AND THE, UH, THREE SOUTHERN BUILDINGS ARE, UM, WOULD BE, WILL BE HIGHEST.
AND UH, THAT'S 279 OF THE 472.
BUT THIS IS BEING DEVELOPED AS A JOINT PLAN, UH, TOGETHER BY TWO QUALITY, UM, DEVELOPERS, OWNERS, AND OPERATORS.
UM, I THINK PARK SIDE'S AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE.
IT ISN'T A VERY DIFFERENT SETTING.
UM, BUT IT'S AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE OF THE TYPE OF AMENITIES AND THE QUALITY OF THE CONSTRUCTION THAT'S GONNA OCCUR HERE.
UM, THIS IS A LITTLE BIT, CLEARLY IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT LAYOUT, UM, IN TERMS OF THE BUILDINGS ON THE SITE.
THERE'S NO INTERNAL, UM, UH, STRUCTURED PARKING OR GARAGE UNITS OR GARAGES IN THIS PROJECT.
UM, WE THINK THAT'S WELL, UH, PLACED TO THE MARKET AND IT'S GONNA BE WELL RECEIVED.
AND THE PARKING DISTRIBUTION I THINK IS VERY SOLID HERE.
UM, THE DISCUSSION ABOUT SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN, I CAN TELL YOU, UM, IN HIGHS PORTFOLIO, WE HAVE OVER 3000 APARTMENT UNITS, UM, ACROSS A NUMBER OF STATES FROM PENNSYLVANIA ALL THE WAY DOWN TO CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA.
UH, WE'VE GOT, UH, LESS THAN 5% OF, UM, THE, THE, THE, THE RESIDENTS, I MEAN VERY SMALL ARE SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN.
THEY ARE VERY MUCH IN LINE WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT STUDY.
IN FACT, I THINK IT'S CONSERVATIVE AND THAT'S WHY I ASKED OUR COLLEAGUES AT, UM, AT, UH, AUDUBON TO JUST GIVE YOU THE EXAMPLE OF DEN, WHICH IS A VERY RECENT NEW CONSTRUCTION HERE.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT I THINK IS A, IS A GOOD AND TELLING INDICATOR.
SO, UM, WE, WE SHOWED THAT AS AN EXAMPLE, BUT AS ERIC MENTIONED, THE MODEL WAS BUILT AROUND THE PRETTY EXTENSIVE STUDY THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT DID.
AND WE USED THEIR INDICATORS AND, AND, AND THEIR METRICS TO, UH, DEVELOP THAT MODEL.
BUT I, I THINK PERSONALLY, I CAN TELL YOU FROM OUR EXPERIENCE, THE 67 IS CONSERVATIVE.
IT MAY BE COUNTERINTUITIVE, BUT THE TYPES OF FOLKS WHO, UM, RENT THESE UNITS AT THE, UM, AT THE RENTS IN TERMS OF THIS QUALITY OF NEW CONSTRUCTION, YOU'RE NOT SEEING A LOT OF FAMILIES.
YOU'RE SEEING EMPTY NESTERS, YOU'RE SEEING, UM, UH, PROFESSIONALS, UM, CERTAINLY A WIDE RANGE OF, OF, UM, OF RESIDENTS.
BUT WE DON'T SEE A LOT OF SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT CONCLUSIVELY DEFINITIVELY ACROSS A NUMBER OF UNITS.
AND WE JUST GAVE YOU THE, UM, THE EXAMPLE AT PARKSIDE, THE GOAL.
DO WE ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? ALRIGHT, WE'RE OPEN FOR QUESTIONS.
I HAVE A QUESTION AND MAYBE IT'S JUST WHAT WE'RE CALLING IT, BUT YOU'RE SAYING APARTMENTS YET YOU ALSO USED THE WORD CONDOMINIUM, WHICH MEANS TO ME THAT, AND MAYBE I'M WRONG, BUT IT MEANS THAT YOU OWN IT.
YEAH, SO, SO IT'S A LAND CONDOMINIUM.
SO WHAT WE HAVE IS A COLLABORATION BETWEEN OUR TWO COMPANIES BETWEEN HIGH AND AUDUBON, AND IT'S A LAND CONDOMINIUM.
[00:45:01]
ON THE CONDOMINIUM.AND I'M SORRY IF I'M THROWING, I DON'T MEAN TO BOMBARD YOU WITH TERMS, BUT IF YOU'VE GOT THE SITE PLAN, THAT TOP BUILDING IS CONDOMINIUM UNIT ONE.
SO KIND OF THAT SELF-CONTAINED TOP BUILDING WITH THE PARKING AROUND IT IS UNIT ONE.
THAT'S THE AUDUBON OWNED PORTION OF THE PROJECT.
AND THEN CONDOMINIUM UNIT TWO IS THE THREE BUILDINGS TO THE SOUTH AND THE PARKING AROUND THAT, THAT'S THE HIGH OWNED PORTION.
IT'S ALL GONNA BE MANAGED UNDER ONE CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATION THAT HAS REPRESENTATION FROM BOTH HIGH AND AUDUBON.
SO IT'S GONNA BE MANAGED SEAMLESSLY.
NOBODY'S GOING TO, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE GONNA SEE IT AS ONE COMMUNITY AND UM, WE'RE GONNA MANAGE IT TO A VERY HIGH STANDARD.
BUT WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THAT THE UNITS ARE NOT GONNA BE SOLD.
THE THE UNITS ARE, I'M SORRY, THEY'RE RENTAL UNITS, THEY'RE UNITS ALL OKAY.
AND THERE WILL BE A COVENANT TO THAT EFFECT.
UH, THAT OTHER, THE THIRD BUILDING DOWN THERE, THE LITTLE ONE, YEP.
THAT, THAT'S GONNA BE UNITS ALSO.
THOSE WERE APARTMENTS AS WELL.
IT'S, IT'S UM, ABOUT 50 50 APARTMENTS.
SINCE, SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RENTING, JUST JUST CURIOUS, WHAT TYPE OF RENT ARE YOU PROPOSING FOR YOUR MODELS? THIS IS, THIS IS, UM, THIS IS VERY HIGH QUALITY NEW CONSTRUCTION.
SO OUR PROFORMAS ARE BUILT AROUND A SERIES OF COMPARABLE PRODUCT PROJECTS.
AND, UM, RENTAL RATES ARE TYPICALLY IN THE TWO, $2 20 CENTS A SQUARE FOOT.
SO THINK THE MID TWO THOUSANDS ON AVERAGE, IT'S GONNA VARY BETWEEN, UH, THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF UNITS.
UM, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S AN AVERAGE AND OBVIOUSLY THAT'S GONNA BE REFINED AS WE, UH, WORK THROUGH THE PROCESS.
DO YOU HAVE AN HOA FEE YET? ARE YOU THERE YET? HAVE YOU COME UP WITH ANYTHING? JUST PRELIMINARILY? YEAH.
THERE, THERE WON'T BE A, AN HO FEE, BUT WE KNOW HO SO THE POOLS STILL REMOVAL.
ALL THAT WOULD BE PAID BY THE RENT.
AND I, I'LL RECOGNIZE ANDY IF, IF I'M SAYING ANYTHING THAT'S OUT OF TURN, CERTAINLY WITH YOUR EXPERIENCE, PLEASE.
ANYTHING YOU WANNA SAY OR COLE? YEAH.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD HERE? I THINK SINCE NO ONE'S MENTIONED IT SO FAR, THE THING THAT BOTHERS ME, AND I DON'T, I, EVERYBODY HERE CAN SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES, UM, WE SEE SO MUCH DEVELOPMENT RIGHT NOW COMING ON, UM, ESPECIALLY MULTIFAMILY.
YEAH, I MEAN WE'RE, IT MUST BE AROUND 2000 AT LEAST.
I HAVE TO ADD 'EM ALL UP, BUT IT'S A LOT.
BUT THERE'S ONLY 13 KIDS IN ALL THOSE UNITS.
JEN, ANTHONY, ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD OR COMMENT ON THE UH, ON, ON THE, UH, SURFACES AND TRAFFIC? NOTHING SPECIFIC.
UM, THIS PROJECT HAS MORE THAN TWO COMMENTS IN MY LETTER FOR THIS ONE, BUT THEY'VE ACKNOWLEDGED ALL OF 'EM.
AND AGAIN, IT'S TENTATIVE SKETCH, SO THEY'RE JUST NOT TO THE POINT OF ADDRESSING MY COMMENTS AT THIS POINT.
LIKE, LIKEWISE ON OUR END, I MEAN, I THINK ERIC GAVE THE SUMMARY OF THE MAIN TRAFFIC DISCUSSIONS THAT HAVE OCCURRED SINCE THE INITIAL CONVERSATIONS WITH THE APPLICANT TEAM.
THAT'S REGARDING THE MULTIPLE LANE, THE MULTIPLE LANES ALONG ROUTE 29, THE FIVE LANE CROSS SECTION, UM, THE FOURTH LEG BEING ACROSS FROM PER, FROM, UH, PERFU AND BOULEVARD.
UH, THOSE, THOSE WERE ALL THE MAJOR CONCERNS THAT WERE KIND OF A QUICK QUESTION MARKS IN THE BEGINNING, BUT THROUGH COOPERATION WITH THE APPLICANT TO PENNDOT, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK GENERALLY WE BLAME IT ON A, UM, CROSS SECTIONS THAT ARE AGREEABLE IN TERMS OF A STARTING POINT.
AND THE REST, YOU KNOW, WILL CONTINUE TO WORK OUT AS WE GET THROUGH THE DETAILS.
I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE TRAFFIC AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN ANSWER OR NOT, BUT IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE PARKHOUSE QUESTION, YOU KNOW, THE YORKIE'S DEVELOPMENT OFF OF HOPWOOD, IF THAT DOESN'T GET DONE BEFORE THIS IS BILLED, HOW DOES THAT ALL WORK? YOU'RE GONNA HAVE, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BOTTLENECK'S STILL THERE.
WELL, THOSE, UH, THOSE ARE PARTS OF THE DISCUSSIONS THAT OCCURRED WITH THE DEPARTMENT.
THEY'RE AWARE OF NEW YORK PIECE PROJECT OBVIOUSLY AS WELL.
SO THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT CONNECTED.
THE TWO PROJECTS ARE, SO THEY, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO CONNECT, YOU KNOW, THE ONE WIDENING FOR THE ONE PROJECT IS GETTING PICKED UP BY THE OTHER ONE, THE TWO KIND OF MEET IN THE MIDDLE.
UM, SO THERE, THERE MAY, I'M NOT SURE ON THE TIMING AND THAT'S KIND OF, I MEAN, I KNOW THAT YOUR PIECE IS FURTHER ALONG.
YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY'RE, THEY'VE KINDA STOPPED ACTUALLY, ACTUALLY THEY'VE KIND OF, I MEAN THEY'RE STILL WORKING THROUGH THE PROCESS, BUT YES, THEIR PROGRESS HAS BEEN SLOW.
[00:50:01]
WE, AND WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH THEM ABOUT THEIR TIMING VERSUS THIS TIMING AND, AND HOW THAT'S GONNA PLAY OUT.AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE WELL AWARE OF THIS PROJECT AND WANT TO, OBVIOUSLY FROM A MARKETING STANDPOINT, WHOEVER GETS ON THE GROUND FIRST IS PROBABLY THE HAPPIEST BUT
I'M JUST CONCERNED THAT ONE OF THEM GETS DONE AND WELL, AND THAT, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY THE TOWNSHIP'S CONCERN TOO, BECAUSE THERE'S GONNA BE BE A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION IN HERE, SOME ROAD CLOSURES ON HOPWOOD TO PUT A CULPRIT IN, YOU KNOW, IT IS GONNA BE A MESS AND WE WANT TO MINIMIZE THAT.
SO IT'S NOT GOING ON FOR EIGHT TO 10 YEARS.
I MEAN, THIS DOES NOT NEED, THAT'S MY FEAR.
I'M GLAD THAT, UH, I, I HAVE A COUPLE COMMENTS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO JUST SURE.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, UM, SPEAKING OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE ALWAYS SEEM TO RUN INTO IS SCHOOL BUSES AND WHERE THEY PICK UP THE KIDS.
I KNOW THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS VERY SPECIFIC RULES ABOUT WHERE SCHOOL BUSES WILL GO.
AND MAYBE IF YOU HAVE A CONTINUED CONVERSATION WITH DR.
RIZZO, YOU CAN HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITH HIM.
RIGHT NOW, THE WAY THIS IS DESIGNED, THE SCHOOL BUS IS NOT GOING TO ENTER INTO THEIR PROJECT.
AND, AND I WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO SEE THE, THE KIDS, HOWEVER MANY THERE MAY BE, WHATEVER NUMBER YOU DECIDE YOU BELIEVE THEY'RE GONNA BE THERE ARE PICKED UP WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT.
I MEAN, I WANNA SEE THAT WITH ALL OF THE DEVELOPMENTS MOVING FORWARD.
AND THAT'S A CONVERSATION I THINK BECAUSE THERE'S, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT NEEDS TO HAVE AN INDEMNIFICATION CLAUSE OR CONTRACT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FROM THE LANDOWNER.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS LANDOWNER REACH OUT AND GET THAT TAKEN CARE OF SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.
SO WE UNDERSTAND WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN IF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT TAKES THEIR HEELS AND SAYS, NO, WE'RE NEVER GONNA GO IN THERE AND AT LEAST WE KNOW IT.
LET'S START PLANNING FOR IT IN TERMS OF A SPECIFIC AREA TO DO IT, A SPECIFIC PARKING AREA TO DO IT.
SOMETHING THAT'S, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DEVELOPMENTS AS WE ALL SEE THEM DOWN, UP AND DOWN BLACKROCK ROAD, UP AND DOWN EVERYWHERE ELSE, A BUNCH OF CARS PARKED AT THE ENTRANCE, A BUNCH OF PARENTS STANDING AROUND.
AND AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING WHAT THE NUMBER'S GONNA BE.
I'M NOT SAYING IT'S A LOT OR LITTLE JUST THAT WE WANT TO, WE DON'T WANNA HAVE THAT BOTTLENECK WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT.
I MEAN, WE'RE GONNA HAVE IT, IF YOU RECALL, JEFF, THAT WE HAD THAT PROBLEM WITH THE GOLF COURSE.
AND THEN WE WORKED IT OUT WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WHERE THE BUSES GO IN.
WE'RE HAPPY TO DO THE SAME THING.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT WE, WHAT'S THE PROCESS? WHAT IS THE PROCESS FOR THAT? YOU HAVE TO PAY THEM MORE OR NO, WE JUST HAVE TO ASK THEM TO DO IT.
AND THEN THEY SAY, WELL WE NEED YOU TO INDEMNIFY US AGAINST SOMETHING HAPPENING BECAUSE WE WENT INTO YOUR BUILDING INSTEAD OF STAYING ON THE ROOF.
THE TOWNSHIP, AND THIS IS NO FAULT, ALL ABOUT LAND DEVELOPMENT, I POINT THEM OUT, BUT WITH PARKSIDE DEN, THEY'RE HAVING AN ISSUE WHERE THE PEOPLE FROM PARKSIDE ARE DRIVING OVER TO GRAND CANYON AND PARKING THERE IN WHITE SPRINGS FARM.
THE PEOPLE AT WHITE SPRINGS FARM ARE LIKE, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? WHY ARE THEY HERE IN OUR PARKING AREA OR IN OUR FIRE? THAT'S NOT AUTUMN ON LAND DEVELOPMENT'S PROBLEM BECAUSE IT'S A SCHOOL DISTRICT.
THEY WON'T ENTER THROUGH PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER BECAUSE PROVINCE TOWN CENTER WON'T INDEMNIFY 'EM.
WE'VE GONE BACK AND FORTH WITH OUR ATTORNEY TO SAY, WHAT IF THE CONTRACT SAYS THIS? WHAT IF THE INDEMNIFICATION SAYS THIS AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS DIGGING IN THEIR HEELS? THIS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION FOR SORT OF THE SAME PROBLEM.
BUT IT CERTAINLY, IT CERTAINLY IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED.
IT IS GONNA LEAD YOUR ROAD THERE.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS ADDRESSED AND DISCUSSED WITH THAT.
IF THEY DIG THEIR HEELS AND SAY THEY'RE NOT GONNA DO IT, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING ON THE PLAN SHOWING AN AREA THAT IS DEDICATED FOR SCHOOL PICKUP.
THE OTHER QUESTION, AND I REALIZE THIS IS JUST TENTATIVE SKETCH, IS THE TRAIL CONNECTION.
IF, IF YOU'RE OVER, I KNOW YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO SEE MY CURSOR VERY WELL, BUT IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT THIS PLAN, ACTUALLY YOU'LL SEE IT ON THIS ONE A LOT BETTER HERE.
THE PER C*M TRAIL IS JUST DOWN HERE TO THE, TO THE BOTTOM OF RIGHT HERE.
AND I KNOW THAT THEY'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH PER CUMIN WOODS ABOUT THIS.
I I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SEE THAT RESOLVED SOME CONNECTION THROUGH THIS INTERSECTION TO THE TRAIL.
'CAUSE AS WE WENT THROUGH WITH Y KEY STATION, THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO US TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS TRAIL CONNECTION THERE.
I REALIZE YOU'VE HAD THAT DISCUSSION WITH PERKIN WOODS AND MAYBE THEY'RE DIGGING THEIR HEELS IN A LITTLE BIT, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MOVE FORWARD.
WE WILL DEFINITELY, WE ARE DEFINITELY INVESTIGATE THAT.
AND WE, WE DID MEET BUR WOODS, RIGHT.
AND WE RAISED THIS PRIOR TO TONIGHT AND I, I JUST WANT THAT POINTED OUT FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
'CAUSE THOSE ARE DISCUSSIONS ON, LIKE, TONY WAS GREAT.
HE SENT ME A RECAP OF THEIR MEETING WITH BUR WOODS AND IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH IT, I'LL CIRCULATE TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
UH, AND UM, I MEAN THOSE ARE JUST THE THINGS WHEN I LOOK AT THE PLAN, JUST FROM A PLANNING STANDPOINT, THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO OR HAVE ON THE TABLE TO FOR DISCUSSION.
THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S ANOTHER I KNOW THAT'S BIG IN THIS TOWNSHIP IS, UH, OUR TRAIL SYSTEMS AND, AND CONNECTIONS AND, UM, I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER GREAT POINT.
I I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CROSS, YOU'RE GONNA MAKE 29 A FOUR LANE HIGHWAY NOW YOU'RE GONNA GET PEOPLE ACROSS.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE GONNA DO THAT, BUT I WELL THAT'S
[00:55:01]
PART OF THE DESIGN THAT HE'S GONNA TAKE CARE OF.I JUST TO SEE HOW, HOW YOU PLAN TO DO THAT
SORRY, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD AT THIS POINT? UH, I WOULD JUST KINDA LIKE TO MAKE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS.
UM, I THINK THIS IS AN EXTREMELY HIGH DENSITY DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, REALLY KIND OF A SMALL FOOTPRINT AND I'M CONCERNED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE INTERCONNECTIVITY BETWEEN ALL OF THESE, UM, APARTMENTS, IF YOU WILL.
I ONLY SEE TWO ACCESSES BETWEEN NUMBER ONE, NUMBER TWO, NUMBER THREE, AND ONLY ONE EXIT OUT ON THE 29TH.
VIRTUALLY THE EXIT TO THE LOWER TWO EXITS.
WELL, YEAH, BUT THE BOTTOM ONE IS, IS KIND OF INCIDENTAL AT ALL.
AS I LOOK AT IT, IT, IT TAKES CARE OF THE, THE LOWEST, WELL, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CATEGORIZE IT, YOU KNOW, CONDO THREE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.
IS THERE GONNA BE A LIGHTING YOU PLAY IN THAT AS A LIGHTING? NO, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT SIGNAL.
SO IT WOULD BE LIKE A RIGHT TURNOVER.
IT IT WOULD, WE'RE PROPOSING IT AS A FULL MOVEMENT.
IT WOULD'VE TO BE APPROVED THAT WAY.
AND WE, WE BELIEVE THE MODELING WILL JUSTIFY THAT AND THE NORTH ONE WON'T BE SIGNALED AND THE NORTH ONE WILL WILL BE SIGNALED.
I WHEN YOU SAY A WHOLE MOVEMENT, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? A FULL A FULL MOVEMENT.
WHAT HELP US PUSH THAT TERM RIGHT AND LEFT, RIGHT AND LEFT.
RIGHT AND LEFT IN AND OUT, IN AND OUT.
THIS IS A, THIS IS A STATEMENT, CORRECT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
SO I MEAN PEN, THAT'S GONNA DICTATE HOW ABSOLUTELY HOW MANY ACCESS POINTS YOU CAN HAVE AND THEY, THEY, THEY WILL DEAL WITH THAT.
THAT'S NOT REALLY ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DICTATE.
AND JOE, WE UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMENT, BUT THIS IS THE ORDINANCE THAT WE'RE GIVEN.
AND THE OTHER, THE OTHER COMMENT I'LL MAKE IS, IS THAT I THINK RECREATIONALLY FOR ALL OF THESE UNITS, UM, OTHER THAN THE DOG PARK, UM, AND THE POLES, I DON'T KNOW WHO'S GONNA USE THE POLES.
THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ANY, ANY OTHER AMENITIES.
UM, WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE, UH, BIKE STATIONS, UM, IN THE BUILDINGS PROBABLY INSIDE AND OUTSIDE.
WE ARE EXPLORING A TRAIL ON SITE AS WELL.
I MEAN, I WANT TO BE VERY SENSITIVE TO THAT OPEN SPACE.
UM, YOU KNOW, DENSITY, IT CAN BE A GOOD THING AS WELL.
WE'RE PRESERVING, UH, MOST OF THIS TRACK AS OPEN SPACE AND WE WANT TO LEAVE IT THAT WAY.
WE COULD HAVE SHOWED OTHER PRODUCT OR OTHER USES IN THERE.
SO, UM, I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
WE TAKE THAT WE WANT THIS TO BE A PREMIER AND, AND WONDERFUL COMMUNITY FOR THE RESIDENTS THAT ARE IN THERE AND, AND FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
SO WE WILL HAVE AMENITIES THERE.
UM, THEY CERTAINLY DO GET USED AND THERE WILL BE OTHER AMENITIES.
UM, LITTLE RECREATION AND UH, OUTDOOR GRILLING AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
AND UM, THAT'S OKAY DURING THE SPRING SUMMER TIME, BUT THROUGH WINTER TIME, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME OTHER OUTLET ACTIVITY AND, AND HOW, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAINTAIN, YOU KNOW, IS IT SOME GUARANTEE THAT THIS OPEN SPACE WILL, WILL NEVER, EVER BE DEVELOPED.
YOU'VE GOT THE DENSITY, UM, CALF IN YOUR ORDINANCE, WHICH WE ARE, YOU KNOW, NOT AT THAT CALF.
UM, THE, UH, BUT WE'RE PRETTY MUCH THERE.
I MEAN THERE IS NO INTENT TO DEVELOP IT TODAY.
NO INTENT TODAY, TOMORROW, YESTERDAY.
ANYTIME WE COULD EASILY DE YOU STRUCTURE, WE COULD.
I MEAN, I WASN'T, YOU KNOW, THAT CAN BE WORKED OUT AS WE INTO THE PROCESS.
THAT COULD BE SOMETHING AGAIN, YOU KNOW, SO MUCH OF WHAT YOU KNOW WAS IN THE, UH, BOWMAN LETTERS AND, AND UH, GILMORE LETTERS.
I MEAN, I GUESS YOU'VE SAID YOU'RE GONNA COMPLY WITH ALL OF THOSE ISSUES.
NO ISSUES IN THOSE LETTERS THAT WE WILL NOT ADDRESS THE LOTS OF THE SIX LOTS THAT THIS MAKES UP.
HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LIVING THERE TODAY? UM, I THINK THREE OF THEM.
JUNE 3RD, THREE OF THEM ARE OCCUPIED.
I THINK THREE THE HOUSES ARE OCCUPIED.
ONE OF THEM IS A SITE YOU'RE INTERESTED.
SHE, DID SHE PREDICT THIS? I KNOW, I GUESS I WOULD'VE TO ASK.
THERE'S A PSYCHIC THAT OPERATES ONE OF THE BUSINESSES OUT OF THESE HOUSES.
SO ARE WE FAILED ON THAT ONE? THE ONLY OTHER COMMENT IS, IS IS THERE AN ISSUE DO YOU THINK? I I I LOOKED AT, UH, THE FIRE MARSHAL'S COMMENTS.
I'M SURPRISED THAT IT'S A FIVE STORY BUILDING AND THERE WAS NOT AN ISSUE WITH THE FIRE MARSHAL IN TERMS OF FIRE EQUIPMENT, ACCESS UPPER LEVELS.
JEFF, I I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK TO THE FIRE CODE.
BUT I, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE FIRE MARSHAL PROBABLY KNOWS THAT THESE BUILDINGS WILL BE SPRINKLED, WHICH CERTAINLY HELPS OUT
[01:00:01]
WITH THE FIRE CODE.CHIEF RIS AND I, THE FORMER SUPERVISORS, WE HAVE ALL TALKED, AND YOU'VE BEEN AT THESE MEETINGS WHERE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE TOWN IS PROBABLY GOING TO NEED A LADDER TRUCK SOMETIME IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
AND THAT'S SORT OF PART OF OUR CAPITAL EXPENDITURE FORECAST THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT FOR SOME OF THESE TALLER BUILDINGS FOR THIS ARDEN, SOME OF THE OTHER BUILDINGS THAT, THAT THE, THE POLICE CHIEF HAS PENCILED THAT IN AS A NEED OF HIS IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
AND AGAIN, WE'LL COMPLY WITH EVERYTHING IN HERE.
I, I READ HIS, HIS LETTER AND I DID SEE ANY NOTICE ABOUT THE HEIGHT OF THE, OF THE, UH, STRUCTURE, WHICH KIND OF SURPRISED ME 'CAUSE I THOUGHT HE'D RAISE IT AS AN ISSUE.
'CAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE EQUIPMENT TODAY IF IT WERE BUILT TODAY AND IT'S NOT GONNA BE BUILT TODAY.
BUT, YOU KNOW,
WHAT IF IT'S IN THE FIRE CODE, HE TALKS ABOUT IT.
OTHER THAN THAT, AND I THINK I'M, AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO SPEAK FOR HIM AND, AND HE, IF YOU'D LIKE HIM TO COME IN SOMETIME, I'M SURE I COULD PERSUADE HIM.
BUT, UM, I GUESS THE FIRE WOULD BE FOUGHT FROM INSIDE, NOT OUTSIDE.
AND I SAW HIS, SAW HIS COMMENTS IN TERMS OF ACCESS YEP.
ABILITY TO GET IT TO THE UPPER LEVELS.
AND I UNDERSTAND, UH, WHERE HE WAS COMING FROM.
I WAS JUST MORE CURIOUS ABOUT STRICTLY THE HEIGHT OF THE, OF THE BUILDINGS AND PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT OTHER PROPOSED DEVELOPMENTS THAT THAT WAS AN ISSUE, UH, NEEDING AN ADDITIONAL MILLION DOLLAR PIECE OF EQUIPMENT.
SO ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD? SO WE UP TO THE PUBLIC.
SO I'M OPENING UP TO THE PUBLIC NOW FOR A PUBLIC COMMENT.
UM, ON ANY P JUST COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE HERE.
STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS IF YOU'RE A RESIDENT, OBVIOUSLY.
AND, UM, AND THEN MAKE YOUR COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS TO US OR TO THE, TO MR. MULLIN AND THESE MARRIED MEN.
I LIVE AT 4 64 SHAKESPEARE DRIVE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY IN COLLEGEVILLE BOROUGH.
SIR, I CAN'T GET TO YOUR DATABASE IN COLLEGEVILLE.
LET ME GET YOUR NAME, SPELLING AND ALL THAT.
UH, JOHN, JOHN, CONVOY, C-O-N-B-O-Y, AS IN BOY.
YOUR ADDRESS HERE? 4 6 4 SHAKESPEARE DRIVE.
AND WHERE IS THAT AGAIN, MR. COLE? WHERE IS THAT? WHERE IS THAT? TOP, TOP MIDDLE, STEVE, STEVE TAG.
T-A-G-E-R-T 4 7 4 SHAKESPEARE DRIVE.
SO WE LIVE ON THE HOUSES THAT BOARD OF THE PROPERTY AT THE TOP.
LET ME COME UP HERE TOO REAL QUICK.
UM, CHENEY, FOUR CIN I'M SORRY, BILL CHENEY, CIN 9 4 66 SHAKESPEARE DRIVE.
I CAN SHOW IN THE 29 I I'LL IN THIS AREA.
I'M JUST TRYING TO, MY PROPERTY IS THIS FIRST TRIANGLE.
SO WE'RE WE'RE BUT UP AGAINST THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT.
AND YOU KNOW, FRANKLY, THIS IS THE FIRST, WE'RE HEARING ABOUT IT WITHIN THE LAST FEW WEEKS.
FIRST THING WE'VE HEARD THAT THE PROPERTY OR THE ZONING WAS APPLIED.
EUROPEAN'S MIXED USE PROPERTY OR ZONE WAS APPLIED TO THAT.
SO A LITTLE BIT OF A SURPRISE THAT THAT, AND, AND PART OF OUR CONCERNS AS WELL, THAT WE'RE ABLE, WE'RE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE THAT HIGH DENSITY, UH, YOU KNOW, HIGH DENSITY, UH, RESIDENTIAL UNITS.
YOU KNOW, AND IT'S, YOU CAN IMAGINE, NOT THAT WE'RE OPPOSED TO THE DEVELOPMENT NECESSARILY, BUT FIVE STORIES BASICALLY IN OUR BACKYARD.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT.
UM, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN TOUCHED ON TONIGHT THAT I THINK WOULD BE THAT FURTHER INVESTIGATION.
I'M SURE YOU KNOW, THE, THE COMMITTEE HERE AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS GONNA DO THEIR JOB.
THE ENGINEERING LETTERS FEEL, FELT REALLY SPOT ON IDENTIFYING A LOT OF ISSUES.
BUT THEY'RE TECHNICAL ISSUES TO THE ZONING ORDINANCES.
THEY WEREN'T ISSUES RELATED TO THE IMPACT TO THE EXISTING RESIDENTS, TO THE EXISTING COMMUNITY, IF YOU WILL.
UM, THE HIGH DENSITY, JUST FROM MY PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE, IT JUST DOESN'T MESH WITH WHAT'S ALREADY HERE AND AT LEAST NOT TO THIS LEVEL.
UM, THE, THE PLANS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED, UH, WILL EFFECTIVELY, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, PUT FIVE STORY BUILDINGS IN OUR BACKYARD, WHICH WILL AFFECT THE AESTHETIC NATURE OF OUR COMMUNITY.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY WE THINK THE, THE PROPERTY VALUE IS IN A NEGATIVE WAY.
UM, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT IN PARTICULAR IS A, IS A, IS AN AREA SECTION OF, UH, CONCERN FOR US.
THERE'S IN THAT AREA UP THERE, THERE'S A RETENTION BASIN, WHICH, UH,
[01:05:01]
BUTTS UP AGAINST IT.IT'S IN THE FAR THE TOP LEFT AREA ABOVE THE DOG PARK, RIGHT ABOVE THE DOG PARK.
AND IT ROUTINELY, YOU KNOW, DOES ITS JOB FINE, IT DOES ITS JOB.
NO PROPERTY'S BEEN DAMAGED BECAUSE IT WAS SIZED, PROPERLY SIZED, I THINK FOR A HUNDRED YEAR FLOOD, WHICH WE'RE EXPERIENCING WHAT, EVERY FIVE YEARS NOW.
UM, WE'RE CONCERNED THAT AS ALL THAT IMPERVIOUS, UH, MATERIAL THAT'S LAID DOWN, WHERE'S THAT WATER GONNA GO AND HOW, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN WE BE SURE THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO NEGATIVELY AFFECT SOME OF THE PROPERTIES THAT ARE THERE.
UM, THE, THE IDEA OF, UH, INCREASED NOISE AND LOSS OF PRIVACY DUE TO THE TALLER BUILDINGS.
AND YOU CAN SEE THAT'S A FIVE STORY BUILDING, YOU KNOW, LOOKING IN OUR SECOND FLOOR WINDOWS.
UM, AND IT'S REALLY SOMETHING THAT I KNOW THAT EVEN THE, THE ZONING ALLOWS FOR BURNS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
THERE'S SOME TREES THAT ARE INDICATED THERE THAT'S NOT GONNA AFFECT ANYTHING FROM A FIVE STORY BUILDING.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT REALLY GONNA DO THE TRICK.
UM, SO I GUESS FINALLY, I, I, YOU KNOW, FOR NOT SPEAKING DIRECT FOR STEVE AND BILL DIRECTLY, BUT, UH, OUR CONCERNS TO COMPLETE THE LACK OF THE, THIS, THIS DEVELOPMENT OF THIS TYPE SIZE AND DENSITY, IT JUST DOESN'T FIT THE EXISTING COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY THIS CLOSE TO ADJACENT PROPERTIES.
UH, I'M NOT QUITE SURE THE OF THE DEN COMPLEX THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY BUILT.
YOU KNOW, WERE THERE PROPERTIES NEXT TO RIGHT NEXT TO THEM? YES.
THEY, AND THEY, I WAS GONNA, I JUST MADE A NOTE, I WAS GONNA BRING IT UP AND YOU'RE DONE.
WE HAD THE SAC, SAME ISSUES WITH THE, WHAT IS THE NAME OF THAT DEVELOPMENT? TOLL BROTHER.
THEY HAD THE SAC, SAME ISSUES FOR ARDEN WHEN WE WERE BUILDING ARDEN ABOUT.
AND THEY COME TO AN AGREEMENT AFTER THEY BUILT A BUFFER AND, AND MOUNDS AND WHAT ELSE? FIRMS. AND THEY BOTH, THEY BOTH, IT WENT AWAY.
THEY BUILT IT TO THE SATISFACTION OF THE, OF THE RESIDENCE RIGHT NEXT DOOR.
SO IF YOU'VE BEEN UP THERE, YOU'LL SEE IT.
THEY PUT TREES, BUSHES AND WHATEVER ELSE UP THERE.
AND, AND THEN THOSE PEOPLE FROM, FROM WHITE OAK FARM, THEY, THEY WENT AWAY.
SO THEY PLANTED THEM IN THE VERY BEGINNING.
WHEN THEY FIRST STARTED, THEY STARTED CHORE RIGHT AWAY.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S THE SAME SOLUTION, BUT WE HAD THAT EXACT SAME MARKET THAT YOU'RE GIVING US UP THERE.
MR. TAGGER HAD REACHED OUT TO ME AND I SUGGESTED THAT HE REACH OUT TO MR. SIGHTS 'CAUSE HE HAD WATCHED THE VIDEO WITH HIM OF, WITH, UM, PERMAN WOODS.
BUT HE ALSO, UM, I I THINK HE EITHER HAD IT OR HE WAS GONNA COME TO THIS MEETING AND SIT DOWN WITH MR. SIGHTS IN AN EMAIL EXCHANGE I HAD WITH MR. SIGHTS ON THE RECAP.
I MENTIONED THAT I TALKED TO MR. TAGGER AND THAT HE MAY BE WANTING TO HAVE A SIT DOWN MEETING WITH HIM.
SO I WOULD, AGAIN, I THINK WE CAN SUGGEST THAT.
TONY SAID THAT, THAT HE IS WILLING TO DO THAT WHEN HE CAME IN THE TODAY.
JEFF HAS YOUR NAMES AND ADDRESSES.
LIKE I SAID, PROBLEM JUST WENT AWAY.
YEAH, I JUST MAKE A COMMENT ON THAT THOUGH.
BUT THAT, THAT IS A DIFFERENT AREA OF THE TOWNSHIP.
THE, THE UPPER, UH, THE, UH, PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER WAS ALREADY CONSTRUCTED.
PEOPLE BOUGHT THOSE HOMES IN A COMMERCIAL AREA.
THEY WERE ARGUING ABOUT THAT DEVELOPMENT.
BUT THEY BOUGHT THEIR HOMES IN A COMMERCIAL AREA KNOWING THAT, THAT, THAT THERE'S ALL KINDS OF POTENTIAL THERE.
WE BOUGHT OUR HOMES WITH AN R ONE LOT BEHIND US THAT GOT REZONED IN 2018 TO MULTIFAMILY USE.
OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T LIVE IN THE TOWNSHIP.
WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT HAPPENED.
NOW WE FOUND OUT TWO WEEKS AGO ABOUT THIS PROJECT FROM A FRIEND OF A FRIEND.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT HOW CLOSE THAT BUILDING IS, I MEAN, IT'S LESS THAN A HUNDRED FEET FROM OUR PROPERTY LINE.
SO I WOULD REALLY LIKE THEM TO CONSIDER REDUCING THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING.
THREE STORIES, AT LEAST THAT BUILDING IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE IT'S SO CLOSE TO OUR PROPERTIES TO GIVE US A LITTLE BIT MORE PRIVACY TO REDUCE THE INFILTRATE, THE AMOUNT OF, OF UM, WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT EVERY DAY.
I MEAN, IT'S A BEAUTIFUL BUILDING AT PARKSIDE.
BUT IT'S NOT WHAT WE, I'VE BEEN THERE 20 YEARS AND WE'VE ALWAYS KNOWN THIS COULD BE DEVELOPED AND WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WOULD BE DEVELOPED INTO APARTMENT BUILDINGS.
WE THOUGHT TOWNHOUSES ARE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AT SOME POINT.
THE OTHER THING IS THAT WE HAVE VIDEOS FROM SOME OF THE HURRICANES AND HOW FLOODED THAT LAND GETS.
AND IT IS INSANE HOW MUCH WATER RUNS THROUGH THAT LAND.
THE, THE RETENTION BASIN WAS FILLED THREE QUARTERS OF THE WAY.
THAT'S JUST THE RETENTION BASIN.
BUT ALL BACK IN THROUGH HERE, ALL THAT CREEK FLOODS HUNDREDS OF FEET WIDE.
I I, TO THAT POINT, I HAVE A LOT OF FAITH IN JEN.
AND IF SHE'S NOT GONNA ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN, SHE'S GONNA WORK WITH THESE PEOPLE AND MAKING SURE THAT WHATEVER PURDY IS PAID HERE IS GONNA BE TAKEN CARE OF.
I'M NOT, I I THINK THAT OF ALL THE ISSUES YOU GUYS MAY HAVE, AND I, I'M NOT, I FEEL FOR YOU, I WOULDN'T WORRY ABOUT THE GROUNDWATER.
I HAVE A LOT OF FAITH IN OUR CONSULTANTS
[01:10:01]
AND THE PEOPLE THAT DO THAT WORK.AND IT'S GONNA BE, I TELL THIS TO ALL THESE DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, I DO THIS ALL THE TIME.
IT COULD BE BETTER IN TERMS OF THE, WHERE WATER'S LAYING AND, AND FILLING OFF THE, IT COULD BE BETTER.
AND I HAVE A LOT OF FAITH THAT THEY'LL TAKE CARE OF THAT.
YOU ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER JUST THE, THE WILDLIFE POPULATION THAT'S ALREADY OVERRUNNING OUR COMMUNITIES, EATING ALL OF OUR PLANTS.
IN THE SUMMERTIME, YOU'RE GONNA BE TAKING AWAY HALF OF THEIR, THEIR LAND HERE.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER CONSIDERATION.
UM, AND YOU KNOW ABOUT PARKHOUSE, HUH? YOU KNOW ABOUT PARKHOUSE.
SO
BUT I THINK IT'S GONNA CREATE A, A REALLY SIGNIFICANT BOTTLENECK AS YOU GO THROUGH COLLEGEVILLE TOWARDS THE PARKMAN BRIDGE BECAUSE THAT'S NOT GONNA GET WIDENED ALL THE WAY THROUGH.
AND HALF THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THIS BUILD, THESE BUILDINGS THAT LIVE IN YERKES, THAT LIVE IN THE HUNDRED TOWNHOUSE HOUSES, THEY WANT TO BUILD ON HOT WOOD.
HALF ARE GONNA GO THIS WAY AND HALF ARE GONNA GO THAT WAY TO WORK.
AND IT'S GONNA CREATE A BOTTLENECK, WHETHER IT'S GO DOWN TO, TO ONE LANE.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER CONSIDERATION.
AND AGAIN, I HAVE FAITH IN OUR TRAFFIC.
PEOPLE ARE GONNA WORK THAT STUFF OUT AND THEY'RE GONNA NOT ALLOW THAT.
OR AT LEAST TRY TO MINIMIZE IT.
UM, I MEAN, WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST WE DO HERE? YOU, YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE NOTHING, RIGHT? YOU'D LIKE NO, I DON'T KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS.
RIGHT? NO, WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO DEVELOPMENT.
BUT I THINK THAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING THAT'S MAYBE NOT AS MUCH IN OUR FACE.
I MEAN, IT'S GONNA BE RIGHT THERE.
I MEAN 50, 60 FEET TALL RIGHT.
AND THAT THAT'S GONNA CHANGE THE WAY WE LIVE.
IT'S GONNA CHANGE THE VALUE OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT'S GOING TO DECREASE OUR PRIVACY SUBSTANTIALLY.
I THINK THERE'S PLANS TO EVEN PUT WALKING TRAILS ALONG THE FENCE TO THE DOG PARK.
I MEAN, MY NEIGHBORS HAVE DOGS AND THEY'RE THEIR FENCE YARDS.
THEY'RE GONNA BE BARK ALL DAY LONG.
I MEAN, SO I FEEL LIKE THERE SHOULD BE SOME CONSIDERATION IN THE LAYOUT AND THE DESIGN TO TRY TO MOVE IT MAYBE A LITTLE BIT AWAY FROM US.
CREATE A LITTLE BIT MORE BUFFER.
'CAUSE THIS IS JUST, YOU KNOW, THIS IS VERY TENTATIVE RIGHT NOW.
I THINK YOU NEED TO MEET WITH THESE FOLKS, TALK TO AND EXPRESS TO THEM YOUR CONCERNS.
NOT NECESSARILY, NOT THAT WE'RE NOT INTERESTED 'CAUSE WE ARE.
BUT I THINK YOU NEED TO TALK TO THESE FOLKS SINCE IT IS TENTATIVE AND TELL 'EM YOUR CONCERNS.
TELL 'EM WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE.
'CAUSE I CAN TELL YOU FROM EXPERIENCE DOING THIS, IT IT, IT WORKS.
YOU KNOW, IT HELPS TO TELL THEM YOUR CONCERNS AND THEY'RE GONNA SAY, WELL HERE'S WHAT WE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, TELL THEM TO GET RID OF THREE FLOORS OFF A BUILDING.
I MEAN, NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ECONOMICS, YOU KNOW, THEY GOTTA MAKE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY TO MAKE THIS ALL WORK.
SO I, I SUGGEST YOU TALK TO YEAH.
I THINK WE WOULD LIKE TO MEET AS A COMMUNITY.
THERE'S SEVERAL PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WEREN'T ABLE TO I'D TO YOU DO THAT.
SO I WOULD, I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONFIDENCE AND EVERYONE'S HERE, THIS IS THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT HERE.
BASICALLY WE HAVE FILMS THAT WE NEED TO PUT THEM TOGETHER TO SHOW YOU THE FLOODING THAT OCCURRED THERE.
IT OCCURS IN OUR AREA AND THEN IT FLOODS OVER INTO THAT WHOLE BACK ZONE.
THEY HAVE AN OPEN SPACE THERE.
YOU KNOW WHY THEY HAVE AN OPEN SPACE THERE? I'M GOING TO TELL YOU BECAUSE YOU CAN'T BUILD ANYTHING ON THAT OPEN SPACE.
IT GETS SO FLOODED BACK THERE.
IT WASN'T LESS THAN A COUPLE FIVE, SIX YEARS AGO, THEY TRIED TO PUT A CELL PHONE TOWER THERE.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
THEY SAID THEY EXPANDED THE FLOOD ZONE BACK THERE AND THEY WOULDN'T EVEN ALLOW A, A CELL PHONE TOWER, ONE HALL TO BE PLACED IN THAT HALL OPEN AREA THERE.
IT WASN'T, SO TELL ME WHAT, WHAT WAS IT THAT, IT WAS A NEGOTIATION BETWEEN THE TOWNSHIP AND THE PROPERTY OWNER? THAT WHAT I MEAN THEY DECIDED NOT TO PUT THE CELL PHONE TOWER THERE.
RIGHT? WELL THE ENDING ARGUMENT WAS THE TOWNSHIP SAID THAT THE FLOOD ZONE HAD BEEN THAT THE TOWNSHIP, I WAS THERE AT THE MEETING WHEN THEY SAID IT.
IT WAS NOT, IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT WIDENING ZONE.
IT WAS WET BECAUSE I MEAN THAT WATER RUNS OFF THERE.
THERE'S A POND THAT SITS THERE.
I'M NOT TRYING TO ARGUE WITH YOU, I'M JUST ASKING YOU.
YEAH, NO, I'M JUST REALLY MAKE SURE THAT'S STRAIGHT FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
SO THEY UNDERSTAND THAT IT WAS A NEGOTIATION BETWEEN THE TOWNSHIP AND THE PROPERTY OWNER AT THE TIME.
THE TOWNSHIP WANTED TO ACQUIRE THAT CELL PHONE OR THAT CELL TOWER FOR THEIR OWN PROPERTY.
AND AT THAT TIME IT DIDN'T WORK OUT AND THE PROPERTY OWNER BACKED AWAY FROM THE WHOLE PROJECT.
THEY TRIED TO PUT SINGLE FAMILY HOMES BACK THERE AT ONE POINT IN TIME.
I'M JUST GOING TO WARN YOU THAT YOU MAKE SURE THAT YOUR WATER CONTAINMENT AND HOW IT'S GOING TO BE HANDLED, 'CAUSE IT'S GOING TO IMPACT EVERYWHERE.
YOU'RE GONNA FLOW DOWN THAT STREAM THERE TO WHEREVER THAT WATER GOES.
THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF IMPERVIOUS, UH, LAND THERE WITH THAT PARKING LOT AND THOSE BUILDINGS.
I UNDERSTAND THE MOMENT HAS TO COME.
I'M OKAY WITH THE CITY BECAUSE THAT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE A CITY SITTING THERE.
THAT'S WHAT IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE.
[01:15:01]
WAS LOW DENSITY, BUT THAT'S ALL CHANGED IN THE LAST 10 YEARS BECAUSE THAT'S THE REALITY OF IT.WAYMAN SHOPPING CENTER WAS SUPPOSED TO BE LOW DENSITY HOUSING, THEN THEY WENT INTO MULTI THE HOMES, THE TOWN HOMES THERE, THEN THEY WENT INTO AN APARTMENT BUILDING OR CONDOS.
UH, AND NOW WE'RE GOING INTO APARTMENTS HERE.
YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT YOUR TOWNSHIP TO BE.
SO IF YOU'RE GOING IN THIS DIRECTION AND YOU WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE A CITY, THAT'S GREAT.
I'M REALLY WARNING YOU ABOUT THAT WHOLE GREEN AREA.
BUT THAT AREA, THAT AREA IS VERY WET.
I HOPE YOU REALLY INVESTIGATE HOW THEY'RE HANDLING THE WATER.
THINK YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM EVENTUALLY.
ONE MORE, ONE MORE QUESTION I CAN ASK IS, IS THERE A ESTIMATE OF HOW MANY RESIDENTS ARE GONNA BE EXPECTED TO BE LIVING BETWEEN THIS COMMUNITY, UM, RPS AND THE NEW TOWN HOMES? I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT'S CALLED.
ON HOPWOOD, THERE'S 48 HOUSES AT THE TOWNHOUSE.
SO IF YOU FIGURE THERE'S THE, THE DEMOGRAPHICS RIGHT NOW SAYS ABOUT 2.5 PER UNIT.
SO THAT'S FIFTY A HUNDRED TWENTY FIVE IN THE TOWNHOUSES.
YOU'RE PROBABLY TALKING TWO PER UNIT.
TWO, TWO PEOPLE PER UNIT ON AVERAGE.
YOU'RE TALKING AROUND A THOUSAND TO 1100 NEW RESIDENTS AND, AND WHAT'S AND ONLY 10 KIDS.
AND THEN WHAT'S THAT SQUARE MILEAGE THERE? LIKE? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MILE WELL, THE TOWNSHIP IS 18 SQUARE MILE.
NO, I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT WHERE THOSE RESIDENTS ARE GONNA BE.
IT'S, IT'S LIKE A QUARTER OF A MILE BY A QUARTER OF A MILE.
BUT, BUT, UM, I MEAN THE TOWNSHIP, OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PROCESS, WE JUST WENT THROUGH ACCOUNTING FOR ALL OF THESE THINGS.
AND THIS IS DEVELOPMENT THAT OUR INFRASTRUCTURE CAN RIGHT.
AND THE, THE, THE PURPOSE BEHIND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WAS TO DIRECT IT TO WHERE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE AND EXISTING ROADWAYS CAN HANDLE THAT, YOU KNOW, AWAY FROM OUR OPEN SPACES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF OUR TOWNSHIP TO THIS AREA WHERE 29 IS THE MAJOR CORRIDOR THROUGH THE TOWNSHIP.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR, BUT THAT'S WHAT OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PROCESS WAS.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, FOR LISTENING TO US.
I THINK YOU, I THINK IT COULD BE.
ANYBODY ELSE FROM THE CO UH, FROM THE, OH, HERE COME GENTLEMEN.
AND IT'S ACTUALLY IN COLLEGE BOROUGH.
IT'S IN THE CO SPELL YOUR NAME FOR ME.
WHAT'S THAT? OH, IT'S JOHN SLOP.
THAT YOUR ADDRESS AGAIN? 5 5 5 SECOND AVENUE IN COLLEGEVILLE.
AND I CAN, IS THERE ANY MORE CLARITY ON THE TRAFFIC AREA OF THE LANES FROM THE WAWA TRAFFIC LANE DOWN TOWARDS FULLY UPPER PROVIDENCE? UM, WE JUST, WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT WE SEE TODAY.
COULD THEY BLOW IT UP A LITTLE BIT MORE? BECAUSE I, TO ME IT'S GONNA NEGATIVELY IMPACT BUILDINGS IN OUR DEVELOPMENT WITHOUT QUESTION.
WHICH IS ACTUALLY PART OF COLLEGEVILLE BOROUGH, NOT UPPER APARTMENTS.
HAS ANYBODY, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THE BOROUGH DIDN'T KNOW THIS AS OF LAST WEEK.
SO MY QUESTION IS, WELL, I MEAN YOU, THE, YOU'RE ASKING, YOU'RE SAYING THAT WHY YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE A POINT THAT YES, I OWN ONE OF THE BUILDINGS.
AND MY QUESTION IS, IF YOU ENLARGE THE STREET, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TO MY BUILDING.
5, 5, 5 SECOND AVENUE, LLC RIGHT THERE.
SO IF YOU LOOK LIKE THE TRAFFIC POLE THAT'S JUST TO THE LEFT OF THAT IS THE START OF UPPER PROVIDENCE ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROAD.
SO MY QUESTION IS WITH SETBACKS, WHAT, HOW FAR CLOSE TO THAT BUILDING IS THESE? WHERE THESE ROADS LOCATED? I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF ANTHONY CAN, I WE CERTAINLY CAN'T ANSWER THAT.
ANTHONY, CAN YOU DO
I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA LET ERIC, I MEAN THIS IS THE CONCEPT ON ARIEL.
IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T FULLY DESIGNED YET.
I THESE ARE DETAILS, AGAIN, I'M JUST FINDING OUT ABOUT THIS NOW.
BUT WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT THREE, TWO LANES EACH WAY PLUS A TURN LANE.
UM, I JUST, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE PROPERTY'S COMING FROM.
THERE, THERE, THERE, WE'VE, WE'VE STUDIED THIS FOR A WHILE, BUT WE'RE CLOSER TO THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS WITH PENDOT.
WE'VE HAD SOME REALLY GOOD DISCUSSIONS WITH THEM.
UM, MOST OF THIS RIGHT OF WAY IS WITHIN OUR CONTROL.
THERE'S SOME RIGHT OF WAY AND I'M GLAD TO MEET YOU TONIGHT.
UM, YOU KNOW, SO WHAT, WHAT IS NOT IN THE PENDOT RIGHT OF WAY AND NOT IN UM, I GUESS ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO, WE'LL TALKING, YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW.
[01:20:01]
HAZARD A GUESS.IT CAN BE, UM, HOPEFULLY MINIMIZED TO THE EXTENT THAT BE DI MINIS, BUT I, I'M NOT SURE WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOTTA WORK THROUGH THAT.
WHAT ANY TIMEFRAME ON THAT? I MEAN, UH, WE JUST HAD OUR INITIAL MEETING WITH
I MEAN THIS IS, THESE, THESE ARE IMPROVEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED AND HAVE BEEN ON THE DEPARTMENT'S RADAR FOR A LONG TIME.
AND I GOTTA TELL YOU, THEY'RE ELIMINATING A SIGNIFICANT BOTTLENECK IN AREA.
SO WE NEED TO GET TE PLAN APPROVAL SO WE CAN GET INTO ENGINEERING.
WHEN WE GET, THEN WE'LL BE EXACTLY DETAILED.
HOW LONG DOES THAT TAKE IN GENERAL THOUGH? I MEAN FROM FROM THERE TO BUILDING.
I'M JUST SAYING JUST ROUGHLY, I MEAN A LITTLE OVER A YEAR.
SO HOW DID, AS WHO DO I NEED TO SPEAK TO? AND YOU CAN, WE CAN, WE CAN CATCH UP.
WE CAN TALK AND I, AND, AND THERE WOULD BE A POINT IN THIS PROCESS THAT WE'D BE, UH, SPEAKING ANYWAYS.
I MEAN, I, TO GET A PERMIT FROM PENDO, WE NEED TO HAVE ALL THE RIGHT OF WAY IDENTIFIED AND SECURED FOR THE PROJECT SO THAT THAT POINT IS COMING.
AND I CAN TELL YOU THEY'RE VERY VESTED.
THEY'RE VERY INTERESTED IN SEEING THIS PROJECT HAPPEN.
I KNOW, I'M, I'M NOT NECESSARILY GIVING YOU ALL THE ASSURANCES YOU WANT, BUT LIKE I SAID TO THESE GENTLEMEN, I'LL BE TALKING TO YOU AND, UM, WE'RE CLOSER TO THE BEGINNING OF THIS.
AND SO I, I'D BE HESITANT TO DRAW TOO MANY CONCLUSIONS FROM WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ON THE BOARD.
I SORRY, COULD GIVE YOU MORE INFO THAN THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK WE KNOW ANYTHING ELSE.
WHO ELSE? AND I, AND I THINK THE POINT IS, IS THAT THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF ENGINEERING WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE HERE.
'CAUSE THERE ARE LOADS OF ISSUES BETWEEN GILMAR AND BOWMAN.
UM, AND YOU'VE, YOU'VE AGREED TO ADDRESS ALL OF THOSE ISSUES.
AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S SIGNIFICANT ENGINEERING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO GET TO THE PRELIMINARY STAGE.
AND AT THAT POINT WE'LL SEE SOME REAL DETAIL.
THIS IS REALLY KIND OF A DREAM.
JEFF, JEFF ALWAYS SAYS THIS IS LIKE A CONCEPT PLAN.
WE GOTTA GET PAST THIS TO GET INTO PRIOR NUMBERS AND FACTS AND DOWN TO, TO ME THIS IS A DREAM.
AND WE'LL NOW GO TO THE, IF WE AGREE, YOU THEN CAN THINK ABOUT, OBVIOUSLY MOVE TO THE NEXT STEP.
IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE IN THE BACK, BACK THERE? ANY COMMENTS FROM ANYBODY? YOU GUYS ALL GOOD? NO COMMENTS? OH, YES SIR.
YOU HAVE TO COME UP, YOU HAVE TO GET ON THE SPEAKER SO WE PICK YOU UP.
SO I, I'VE NEVER BEEN TO ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE, SO I WOULD JUST LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE STAGES ARE GONNA BE AND THE PROCESS THAT YOU DO.
I THINK JEFF EXPLAINED A LITTLE BIT TO ME ABOUT RECOMMENDATIONS.
LIKE HOW CAN WE STAY INFORMED OTHER THAN GOING TO THE WEBSITE CHECKING EVERY WEEK.
THERE, THERE'S NO NOTIFICATION REQUIRED ON, ON THIS.
QUITE COMMONWEALTH RULE, COMMONWEALTH LAWS.
SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS IF THEY GIVE A RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT, THEY WOULD BE PUT ON THE BOARD OF SUPERVISOR'S AGENDA FOR JANUARY 22ND.
IT'S THE DAY AFTER MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY.
IT'S A TUESDAY NIGHT, NOT OUR TYPICAL MONDAY NIGHT.
THEN THE BOARD WOULD HAVE THE SAME SORT OF PRESENTATION AND THEY WOULD DETERMINE IF THEY APPROVED THE TENTATIVE SKETCH.
AND THEN AT THAT POINT THEY WOULD GO INTO AND THEY WOULD START THE ENGINEERING FOR PRELIMINARY.
THEY'D GO THROUGH PRELIMINARY, WE'D HAVE THE SAME MEETING FOR THIS, THE SAME MEETING AT THIS LEVEL.
THEY WOULD GO TO THE BOARD AND THERE WOULD BE A FINAL PLAN AFTER ALL OF THOSE APPROVALS WERE OBTAINED.
AND THEN THAT'S, YOU KNOW, OUR ROLE, MR. TAGGER SUGGESTED TO ADVISE THE SUPERVISORS, THE TOWNSHIP SUPERVISORS THAT WE, WE THINK THIS IS A GOOD PLAN TO MOVE FORWARD OR WE DON'T.
AND WE'RE JUST IN AN ADVISORY PLAN.
THEY THE ONES THAT WILL MAKE THE FINAL YAY OR NAY.
BUT WE ADVISE THEM OR, AND THEY TAKE OUR RECOMMENDATIONS HERE.
SO THEY MAY, IF WE SAY YES, THEN THEY PROBABLY ARE GONNA, YOU KNOW, UNLESS THEY SEE SOMETHING WE BASIC, BUT THAT, THAT'S OUR ROLE AT THIS POINT.
BUT THEN THEY HAVE TO COME BACK AND THEN THEY HAVE TO COME BACK AFTER THAT.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT TO GO ON.
AND, AND MY AGENDA TYPICALLY WILL SAY WHEN IT'S TENTATIVELY SCHEDULED FOR THE NEXT MEETING.
LIKE THIS ONE SAYS FOR THE JANUARY 21ST.
SO I GUESS IT'S THE 21ST, 2025 BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING.
I CAN'T SAY FORM, I CAN'T SAY IT'S OFFICIALLY GOING TO BE ON THAT BECAUSE THE AGENDA DOESN'T COME OUT UNTIL FRIDAY BEFORE.
SO YOU WILL HAVE TO CHECK THE WEBSITE AND LOOK AT THE AGENDA BEFORE THAT MEETING.
WE DON'T NOTIFY, WE DON'T SEND OUT NOTIFICATION OF WHEN IT WOULD BE ON THE, ON THE AGENDA.
I KNOW WE'RE NOT TOWNSHIP UH, PRESIDENTS, BUT WE'RE CLOSER THAN MOST OF YOU TO THIS, SO THANK YOU.
WE UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERNS AND UH, YOU KNOW, WE TRY TO, WE TRY TO TAKE ALL THIS INTO CONSIDERATION.
ANYBODY ELSE COULD BE FROM THE
[01:25:01]
BOARD.ZACH, WHAT'S OUR ROLE HERE? UH, ARE YOU LOOKING FOR RECOMMENDATION? YES.
YOU'RE LOOKING FOR RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT? YES.
SO I THINK AT THIS POINT, UM, IT WOULD BE JUST A RECOMMENDATION ON THE TENTATIVE APPLICATION.
AGAIN, THIS IS A TENTATIVE PLAN, SO YOU KNOW, WE'RE STILL GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK, PRESENT ALL THAT ADDITIONAL DETAILED INFORMATION TO GET UP TO THE PRELIMINARY PLAN LEVEL.
SO, UM, SO WHAT'S, WHAT'S ZACH'S SAYING TO THE BOARD IS THAT WE CAN, UH, I I'LL NEED A MOTION, UM, EITHER THAT WE RECOMMEND, UM, DEFENDANT PLAN TO THE SUPERVISORS OR THAT WE SAY, NO, WE DON'T RECOMMEND THIS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION YET OR WHATEVER THE REASON IS.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT OUR ROLE IS HERE AT THIS POINT.
IS THERE A REAL HURRY FOR US TO DO THIS TONIGHT? I MEAN, THIS IS THE FIRST WE'VE HEARD THAT.
I DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE LOOKING FOR RECOMMENDATION.
I THOUGHT YOU WERE JUST PRESENTING THIS TO US, GETTING OUR FEEDBACK, GETTING FEEDBACK EVEN NORMALLY THAT'S WHAT WE DO, RIGHT? ED, YOU'VE BEEN HERE ENOUGH TIME.
BUT IN THIS CASE, THIS IS NOT LIKE A REZONING REQUEST.
IT'S, I UNDERSTANDS A SUBDIVISION.
WE COMPLY WITH ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ORDINANCE.
WE COMPLY WITH ALL THE REVIEW LETTERS AND THERE'S REALLY, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
SO WHAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT NEXT TIME, RIGHT? AM MY RIGHT.
I, I, I, I GUESS I DIDN'T REALLY THINK OF THAT.
YOU WERE LOOKING FOR THAT TONIGHT.
IT WOULD JUST SLOW US DOWN FOR NO GOOD REASON WHEN WE CAN GET INTO PRELIMINARY AND THEN WE CAN REALLY TALK TO YOU.
I, AGAIN, I, THAT'S NOT WHAT I THOUGHT WE WERE DOING TONIGHT, BUT YOU SURE HAVE THE RIGHT AGREE TIME.
I, I DIDN'T THINK THIS WAS RIGHT.
WE HAD GOTTEN THIS FAR BECAUSE I THOUGHT, AS I SAID, THIS WAS KIND OF LIKE A DREAM
SO JEFF, IF WE, IF WE, IF WE DON'T RECOMMEND THIS, THEY COULD STILL GO TO THE SUPERVISORS ON THE 21ST YOU SAID? YES.
THEY CAN BE ON, THEY, THEY WOULD REQUEST TO BE ON THAT AGENDA.
I'M NOT UNDER AN MPC CLOCK, SO TECHNICALLY I DON'T HAVE TO PUT THEM ON THE AGENDA, BUT OUT OF DEFERENCE TO THEIR APPLICATION, I WILL, I MOVE APPLICATIONS ALONG.
UM, WE DO HAVE A PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ON THE 15TH.
UM, I KNOW THAT'S A QUICK TURNAROUND OF THE 21ST, BUT IF, IF WE PUT YOU OFF THOSE 15TH, THEN WOULD YOU COME BACK WITH ANY MORE DETAIL? WE COULD COME BACK BEFORE THE 21ST.
WELL, I'M, THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING YOU WOULD YOU HAVE MORE DETAIL ON THE 20 OR BUT IF 15 NO, WE WOULDN'T HAVE ANY MORE DETAIL.
MORE DETAIL WOULDN'T HAVE DONE ANY.
I'M ASKING, TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
'CAUSE AGAIN, I I WAS NOT THINKING THAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR RECOMMENDATION.
ALRIGHT, SO, UM, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY FROM THE BOARD, HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT SITUATION THAT WE THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION? YOUR POINT WELL MADE, BOB, BUT WHAT HE'S SAYING IS IF WE HOLD THIS UP TILL THE 15TH, UM, THEY'RE NOT GONNA COME BACK WITH ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, BUT WE HAVE TIME TO STUDY IT.
WELL, YOU COULD SAY THAT WOULD JEN ANTHONY, WOULD YOU HAVE ANY MORE INPUT AT THAT POINT? NO, I'D LIKE TO WALK THE PROPERTY.
QUITE FRANKLY, WE CAN'T DO THAT IF WE VOTE ON IT TONIGHT.
SO YOU'D LIKE TO DO WHAT? THE PROPERTY, WALK THE PROPERTY.
WELL, CAN YOU WALK THE PROPERTY? IT'S STILL PRIVATE RESIDENCE, RIGHT? THERE'S PEOPLE LIVING THERE.
THERE ARE, WELL AT LEAST FROM THE ROAD, PUT IT THAT WAY.
SO DOES ANYBODY WANNA MAKE ANY REC? IF NOT, I'LL STEP BACK AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION IF YOU, IF NOBODY'S CONFIDENT TO DO THAT AT THIS POINT, I'M JUST NOT SURE THAT, UH, DELAYING THIS IS GOING TO AFFORD US WITH ANY MORE INFORMATION.
'CAUSE AS IT'S BEEN POINTED, POINTED OUT, THE REAL ANSWERS ARE GONNA COME FROM THE ENGINEERING TRAFFIC STUDY AND, AND ALL THE THINGS THAT, THAT THEY HAVE TO, UH, TO GET INTO.
UM, I THINK THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF GOOD DISCUSSION.
AND, AND THERE ARE, THERE ARE THINGS THAT CAN BE ADDRESSED THROUGH THE ENGINEERING AND FURTHER DEVELOPMENT MIGHT ADDRESS SOME OF THE RESIDENTS CONCERNS.
YOU KNOW, PERHAPS THAT THAT, UH, BUILDING THAT'S CLOSEST TO THEIR PROPERTY CAN BE SHIFTED.
LET ME TELL YOU, ASK, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A GOOD POINT SHERRY JUST MADE.
IF WE HOLD THIS OFF TO THE 15TH, WILL YOU TALK TO THE RESIDENTS BEFORE THAT WE ABSOLUTELY, WE'LL TALK TO THE RESIDENTS.
SO WE WOULD'VE SOME FEEDBACK BY THEM FROM THESE GENTLEMEN AND OTHER RESIDENTS, UH, THE BUILDING OWNERS.
IS THAT CORRECT? I GUESS THE REAL QUESTION, YOU'RE NOT GONNA MAKE A COMMITMENT TO THAT? I I, I'M, I'M NOT, I'M CERTAINLY GONNA MEET WITH THEM AND I WANT TO HEAR WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY AND I'LL DO THE BEST THAT I CAN IN THE CONTEXT OF, YOU KNOW, MY PROJECT AND, AND MY PARTNER AND, AND, UH, AND OUR INTEREST.
I, I WOULD SAY WITH REGARD TO THE LETTERS THAT YOU HAVE, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF COMMENTS, BUT IT'S NOT UNUSUAL FOR A PROJECT OF THIS SCALE.
[01:30:01]
THE GILMORE LETTER OR THE BOWMAN LETTER THAT GIVES US ANY BOSS.I THINK PAUL SAID THAT THERE IS NOTHING IN THOSE LETTERS SO THAT, UM, WE WON'T BE ABLE TO COMPLY WITH OR, AND A AND A NUMBER OF THE COMMENTS ARE FOR ADDITIONAL DETAIL THAT ARE GONNA BE PROVIDED IN A MATTER OF COURSE IN, UM, MORE ENGINEERED, IN ENGINEERED PLANS.
SO YOU'RE GONNA GET THAT INFORMATION.
UM, THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD DETAIL THERE.
NOTHING THOUGH IS GONNA HOLD THIS UP.
UM, SO I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE KEEP THIS MOVING.
I MEAN, I, I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.
WE'D LIKE TO JUST KEEP IT MOVING.
THERE ISN'T GONNA BE ANYTHING TO BE ACHIEVED.
I'M GONNA TALK TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO TALK TO ME THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS AND WE'LL LISTEN AND WE'LL DO OUR BEST.
UM, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GONNA SIT HERE AND DEBATE THE WISDOM OF THE ORDINANCE.
THE ORDINANCE IS IN PLACE, IT'S A BY RIGHT USE.
AND, UM, WE WILL DO OUR BEST, OUR LEVEL BEST TO GIVE YOU THE BEST PROJECT THAT WES CAN.
THAT'S ALL WE CAN ASK YOU TO DO.
AND, AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND ALL, AND ALL THE COMMENTS FROM THE OTHER, THE BOARD MEMBERS RELATIVE TO RECREATIONAL FACILITIES, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
PARKING, ACCESS TO ROADS, ALL THAT STUFF FOR, BUT THAT'S OBVIOUSLY GONNA COME IN PRELIMINARY OBJECT.
I MEAN, THE, THE ONLY WAY YOU GUYS ARE GONNA GET MORE INFORMATION IS IF YOU, I LOSE IT GOES FORWARD.
SO NOBODY WANTS TO MAKE THE, UH, UH, TODAY, I'LL PUT IT OUT THERE.
UM, THAT I HAVE INTENDED APPROVAL TO MOVE THIS TO THE SUPERVISOR ON 21ST, UH, WITH OUR RECOMMENDATION AND THEN OBVIOUSLY, HOPEFULLY TO HEAR A LOT MORE INFORMATION IN THE NEXT THREE MONTHS OR FOUR MONTHS, WHATEVER IT IS.
AND NOW OBVIOUSLY WE CAN VOTE YAY OR NAY, RIGHT? I'LL PUT OUT THE MOTION THAT WE SEND THIS TO THE SUPERVISORS WITH A RECOMMENDATION.
AT THIS POINT, I AM WITH YOU GUYS.
I HAVE A LOT OF, QUITE STILL A LOT OF ISSUES WITH THIS, BUT I'M NOT SURE WE'RE GONNA GAIN ANYTHING.
ZACH HAS TOLD US THAT THEY HAVE TOLD US THAT JEFF HAS TOLD US THAT IT CAN GO TO THE SUPERVISORS ANYHOW.
SO, UM, I THINK THAT AT THIS POINT WE OUGHT TO JUST SAY LET'S MOVE IT FORWARD AND HAVE, GET SOME OTHER PEOPLE FROM THE TOWNSHIP INVOLVED IN IT.
SO, UM, I'LL MAKE THAT, UH, MOTION AND YOU GUYS CAN SECOND IT OR NOT SECOND IT OR MAKE A DIFFERENT MOTION.
TOM, I'M GONNA SECOND THE MOTION.
I THINK IT NEEDS TO MOVE FORWARD AND GET SOME OF THE QUESTIONS ANSWERED.
SO JERRY'S MADE A, UH, MOTION AND OR I MADE THE MOTION.
JERRY HAS SECOND THAT MOTION THAT WE MOVE THIS ALONG TO TENTATIVE, UM, APPROVAL TO THE SUPERVISORS.
UH, I'LL CALL FOR A VOTE UNLESS THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.
COLLINS, I KNOW THIS IS TOUGH GUYS.
DO I HAVE A A VOTE FROM ANYBODY?
I'M TELLING YOU WE'RE LOOKING FOR A LOT MORE MAN.
WE'LL BE, WE'RE LOOKING FOR A LOT.
UM, AS YOU'RE LEAVING, WE HAVE, WE STILL HAVING A MEETING, SO PLEASE JUST, YOU HAVE COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS OR MEET WITH THESE GUYS, PLEASE GO OUT THE HALLWAY.
WE DON'T, WE SELL THEM OFF TO FUND OUR CHARGES.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
UM, SO PLANNING COMMISSION MEET.THEN WE TALK TO PLANNING COMMISSION.
YOU HAVE NOTHING ON THE 18TH? NOTHING ON THE 18TH.
AND THEN WE'RE BACK ON JANUARY 15TH OUR FIRST OF THE YEAR.
THAT WILL BE OUR FIRST OF THE YEAR.
WE WILL HAVE REORGANIZATION THEN.
WE'LL HAVE VOTES ON ALL THAT STUFF.
AND AS WE KNOW, SADLY NIKKI WILL BE MOVING ON WITH HER LIFE AND I'M GONNA TRY TO TALK HER ON, WHAT IS THAT? 15TH IS OUR NEXT MEETING.
BECAUSE I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WANTS TO MEET ON JANUARY 1ST.
WELL, WE CAN MOVE IT TO THE SECOND.
WE COULD, BUT GONNA YOU BIG TV.
WE COULD I COULD PUT IT ON THAT SCREEN.
JANUARY 15TH IS THE NEXT MEETING.
UH, ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETS NEXT WEDNESDAY, UH, THE 11TH.
THAT'D BE THE LAST MEETING FOR THAT.
UM, AND YOU'RE ALL WELCOME TO COME TO THAT.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, GETTING SOME PRESENTATION FROM SOME RECOMMENDATIONS FROM COLLEGE KIDS.
[01:35:01]
THE BACKGROUND INFORMATION RIGHT NOW FOR THE LOCAL CLIMATE ACTION PLAN.SO WE'RE REAL CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT.
AND, UH, FINALLY, UH, BEFORE WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN, UH, ANYTHING ELSE? NO.
I'D JUST LIKE TO MAKE A PUBLIC COMMENT.
I WANT TO THANK THIS BOARD FOR 2024.
AND I THINK WE'VE DONE A GREAT JOB.
AND I WANT TO THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THIS WHOLE PARK HOUSE AND NOW THIS, IT'S JUST, IT'S BEEN A TOUGH YEAR AND, UH, I THINK WE'VE DONE A GREAT JOB AND I APPRECIATE WONDERFUL JOB TOO.
AND I WILL CONTINUE TO BE, IF YOU SO HAVE ME, ZACH, THANK YOU FOR, FOR YOUR, UM, INSIGHT AND WISDOM.
I'M HAPPY WITH LITTLE, LITTLE WISDOM.
JENNY, THANK YOU FOR, YOU KNOW, JUST BEING THERE.
I I TRULY HAVE A LOT OF FAITH THAT YOU GUYS, YOU KNOW, IIII KNOW THAT.
YOU KNOW, GUYS, I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY DON'T KNOW, BUT I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE GONNA DO THE JOB.
JEFF, AS ALWAYS, YOU'RE FANTASTIC.
WE HAVE THAT PARTY ON THE 17TH.
COME 'CAUSE IT'S JUST SOCIALIZING AND, AND WE EVEN CAN HAVE A BEER IF YOU WANT
AND, AND, AND NICOLE, I'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND NICOLE, DO YOU WANNA SAY ANYTHING ON THE RECORD BEFORE YOU THIS YOUR LAST MEETING? NICOLE? YEAH.
WE SHOULD HAVE ONE ON DECEMBER 24TH.
WELL, WE OUGHT TO JUST, WE HAD TO INVITE NICOLE TO COME ON THAT AND NOBODY WILL SHOW UP.
NO, YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN WONDERFUL.
I APPRECIATE EVERYTHING SO MUCH AND THIS HAS, IT'S JUST MY PERSONAL DECISION TO REIGN MY, MY THE THINGS THAT I, MY OBLIGATIONS IN A LITTLE BIT FREE TIME BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THAT SLIPS AWAY FROM ME AND YOU WILL BE MISSING.
I'VE BEEN AN OBSERVER AND I VALUED, UH, YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS AS AN OBSERVER PRIOR TO NOW BEING ON THE COMMISSION.
I THINK YOU'VE, YOU'VE SERVED VERY, VERY WELL FOR THE TOWNSHIP INTERESTS.
I FEEL LIKE MY CONFIDENCE HAS GROWN DURING THAT TIME.
YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS ARE SO EASY TO DEFER TO.
ARE WE GONNA SEE YOU HERE NEXT TIME? NEXT TIME.
UH, LOVER'S LANE, OR WHAT'S THE OTHER ONE? IT COMES UP.
ARE YOU GONNA BE HERE FIGHTING AGAINST THAT? THE STREET LOVER'S LANE.
TALK ABOUT THAT MIGHT IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
THAT MY VOICE WILL REALLY COME.
WITH ALL THAT SAID, THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR 24.
IT'S BEEN A GREAT YEAR, A REALLY GOOD YEAR.
NICOLE HAS MADE THE MOTION PUT HER NAME IN THE, UH, IN THE VIDEO FOR THE LAST TIME AND I'LL TAKE A SECOND.