[00:00:02]
JOE? YEP.[CALL TO ORDER / MOTION TO APPROVE AUGUST 21, 2024 AGENDA]
GOOD EVENING.I'M GONNA CALL TO ORDER THE MEETING OF THE HE PROVINCE TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION FOR AUGUST THE 21ST.
UM, AND WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO FIRST BEFORE WE GET TO ALL THE OTHER THINGS WE'RE GOING, UH, UM, APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT.
AND THERE'S, LOOKS LIKE THERE'S, UH, TWO THINGS ON THE AGENDA, RIGHT, JEFF? YES.
ONE OF THEM IS OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND THEN ONE IS THE WORDS FOR BAPTIST MISSION FIRST HOUSING PROJECT, WHICH IS WHY I SHE MUST BE PEOPLE HERE.
UM, SO DO I HAVE, UH, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT? BOB? BOARD A MOTION TO ACCEPT MOTION.
BOB'S MADE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE AGENDA.
AND DO I HAVE A SECOND? UH, YES.
[PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AGENDA ITEMS]
COMMENT.PUBLIC COMMENT ON NON AGENDA ITEMS. NOW, ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT IS THE HOUSING PLAN AT, UH, THE BROS REBECCA SHIRT.
SO IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS, ANYBODY'S HERE FOR ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN THAT, PLEASE COME FORWARD.
THIS IS THE TIME TO MAKE YOUR COMMENTS ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT'S ON THE AGENDA.
JUST WHEN YOU COME UPSTAIRS, PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND, UH, WHERE YOU LIVE.
BLAKE WELLING, 1 35 BENNINGTON ROAD.
UH, THE SUBJECT IS THE TENANT SKETCH PLAN FOR THE PARK HOUSE PARCEL.
SO YOU MIGHT RECALL DURING THE LAST PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AUGUST 7TH, BILL FELTON SPOKE ABOUT THE CURRENT SCOUTS PLAN AND HOW OPEN SPACE IS CURRENTLY SET ASIDE TO THE NORTHERN PORTION OF THE PARCEL.
AND HE SPOKE, UH, QUITE PASSIONATELY ABOUT THE NEED TO HAVE OPEN SPACE AT THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF THE PARCEL.
AND HE SPOKE ABOUT HOW VALUABLE THAT WOULD BE RELATIVE TO CONNECTIVITY TO CURRENT OPEN SPACE SUCH AS THE UPPER SCOPA VALLEY PARK AND OTHER PROPERTIES THAT COULD BE PRESERVED OR CONSERVED IN THE AREA THAT, UH, HEADS UP TOWARDS MANGO CREEK.
SO I FULLY SUPPORT MR. FELTON'S STATEMENTS ON THAT.
WHAT'S HIS NAME AGAIN? BILL FELTON.
I WANT TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL VERY IMPORTANT POINT RELATIVE TO PRESERVING THAT AREA OF THE, THE SOUTHERN AREA OF THE PROPERTY AS OPEN SPACE OR SETTING ASIDE THAT AREA FOR, UH, FOR, UH, NOT BEING INCLUDED IN THAT AREA THAT WILL BE DEVELOPED.
SO THAT IS SAFETY AND THAT'S NAMELY TRAFFIC SAFETY.
WITH DEVELOPMENT BEING CONCENTRATED IN THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF THAT PROPERTY, IT WOULD FUNNEL SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC INTO TWO HAZARDOUS INTERSECTIONS.
THAT'S FULL STATE ROAD AND SECOND AVENUE.
AND THE AREA WHERE THE ROUNDABOUT WILL BE BUILT.
IN OTHER WORDS, THE, THE SECOND AVENUE, UH, ONE 13 AND DRIVE VIS INTERSECTION.
NOW INSTEAD, IF DEVELOPMENT IS CONCENTRATED INSTEAD AT THE NORTHERN PART OF THE PROPERTY, MUCH OF THE TRAFFIC WOULD GO TO MUCH SAFER INTERSECTIONS.
THE SECTION, THE INTERSECTIONS AT, UH, YEAGER IN OLD STATE YEAGER AND ONE 13 AND, AND BLACKROCK.
SO IF, UH, DEVELOPMENT WERE CONCENTRATED IN THE NORTHERN END, IT'D BE CLOSER TO MAJOR ARTERIES AND TO SHOPPING TO 4 22.
SO AGAIN, THIS IS ABOUT SAFETY.
WE DON'T WANT IT NEAR THE HAZARDOUS INTERSECTIONS AS I DESCRIBED.
WE WANT IT, UH, THE AREA IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE PARCEL WHERE THE INTERSECTIONS ARE MORE CLEARLY ESTABLISHED WITH MUCH BETTER SITE DISTANCES, FAR LESS LIKELIHOOD OF ACCIDENTS AND, AND OTHER TROUBLES THERE WITH THE INTERSECTIONS.
I THINK THAT, UH, I THINK THAT WE DO REMEMBER MR. FELDEN AND, UM, AND HIS PLAN THAT HE SUBMITTED TO US LAST TIME.
[00:05:01]
AND, UH, GUYS WANNA MAKE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT, JARED OR BOB OR I WILL SAY JUST FROM AN ADMINISTRATIVE STANDPOINT, THAT PLAN WAS RECEIVED END OF JULY AS WAS DISTRIBUTED TO YOU.UM, I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT IN OCTOBER, WE'LL GET TO THIS AT THE END, BUT SINCE EVERYBODY'S HERE NOW AND EVERYBODY LEAVES AFTER THEIR PART ENDS, UM, WE WILL PROBABLY GET THAT ON AN OCTOBER AGENDA FOR DISCUSSION.
I HAVEN'T CHECKED WITH THE CLIENT YET WITH THE CLIENT, THE APPLICANT YET ON THAT, SO I NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE FREE TIME AND FREE DATES, BUT THAT'S LIKELY WHEN IT WILL BE ON AGENDA.
I, I THINK WE, WE, WE, I THINK JUST PRELIMINARILY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO, BUT WE THINK THERE'S SOME DOWN, GET INTO WHAT BILL'S SAID AND, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO, WE WANNA PRESENT THAT OR LOOK AT WHY IT DOESN'T WORK OR WHY IT COULD WORK.
SO I THINK WE'RE OPEN TO THAT.
I HOPE WE, YOU HEARD FROM ME ABOUT SAFETY ALSO.
NO, I THINK WE UNDERSTAND THE SAFETY, WE UNDERSTAND THE COMMON SENSE, WE UNDERSTAND A LOT OF REASONS WHY THAT THAT MIGHT MAKE SENSE, BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE'S ANOTHER SIDE AND WE'VE GOTTA LISTEN TO THAT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON NON AGENDA ITEMS? OKAY, SO WE'RE GONNA, OH, YEP.
PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND YOUR ADDRESS.
BILL FELTON, 1 33 OLD STATE ROAD.
UH, I, I, AT THE SUPERVISOR'S MEETING, THEY, THEY TALKED ABOUT THE, UH, GRANT THEY JUST GOT FROM THE STATE AND IT WAS IN THE PAPER AS WELL TO IMPROVE THE ROUNDABOUT AND TO BUILD A BRIDGE.
AND I WAS JUST CURIOUS OF THE DESIGN OF THAT BRIDGE, HOW FAR ALONG THAT MIGHT BE.
AND I THINK THAT, AND THE REASON I'M ASKING, I DON'T KNOW, THE REASON I'M ASKING IS, IS CONSIDERATION FOR IF WE HAVE OPEN SPACE, OR EVEN IF THAT DOESN'T END UP BEING OPEN SPACE, THERE'S STILL THAT CORRIDOR OF THE CREEK AND THE OPPORTUNITY FOR TRAILS TO CONNECT FROM THE PARK HOUSE PROPERTY DOWN INTO THE, UH, INTO THE OTHER SCHOOLS DOWN PARK.
YEAH, SO I CAN COMMENT TO THAT.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE IN PRELIMINARY ENGINEERING, SO THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE GRANT AWARD WAS GOOD NEWS FOR SURE.
UM, SO THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SOME, THERE'S CONSTRUCTION DOLLARS IN THAT GRANT, UM, AND LIKELY SOME FINAL ENGINEERING, UH, DOLLARS IN THAT GRANT.
SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE WORKING IN THE PRELIMINARY PHASE THROUGH A SET OF GRANT WE RECEIVED A FEW YEARS AGO, BUT WE'RE VERY CLOSE TO MAKING A, UM, AN UPDATED SUBMISSION TO PENDOT FOR OUR ROUNDABOUT PLAN, WHICH INCLUDES THE REPLACEMENT OF THE STRUCTURE AS WELL.
SO THOSE TWO, THE PLAN INCLUDES BOTH OF THOSE ELEMENTS.
SO IT'S THE ROUNDABOUT AND THE BRIDGE 'CAUSE OF THEIR PROXIMITY, THE AMOUNT OF WORK.
SO ONCE WE MAKE OUR NEXT FORMAL SUBMISSION, WHICH WE ANTICIPATE THE NECK AMOUNT THE NEXT MONTH OR SO, UM, IT WILL INCLUDE, UM, STRUCTURE PLANS.
WE HAVE A LOT OF FEEDBACK ALREADY FROM PENDO IN TERMS OF THE GEOMETRY.
SO THE NEXT SUBMISSION'S GONNA GIVE US A LOT OF, THEY'LL HAVE A LOT MORE INFORMATION.
THAT SUBSEQUENT REVIEW WILL GIVE US AN IDEA OF HOW CLOSE THINGS ARE AND WHAT THEIR THOUGHTS ARE ON DESIGN OF DESTRUCTION AS TO AS TO HOW IT CAN AFFECT, HOW THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN OF WHETHER IT'S ON THE NORTH OR THE SOUTH SIDE, WHATEVER THAT ENDS UP BEING.
I WON'T SAY IT'S A MINOR CHANGE, BUT IT'S A RELATIVELY EASIER CHANGE TO DO TO THAT PART OF THE ENGINEERING.
THE HARDER ENGINEERING IS THE BRIDGE AND THE ROUNDABOUT ITSELF, WHETHER IT'S GOT A THIRD OR FOURTH LEG, DEPENDING ON WHERE THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT CAN BE ADJUSTED.
SO YES, WE'RE MOVING FORWARD WITH THE DESIGN BASED ON THE DESIGN THEY'VE SUBMITTED, BUT THOSE ARE THINGS THAT CAN BE ALTERED DOWN THE ROAD IF WE HAVE TO.
WE'RE CERTAINLY NOT GONNA BE BUILDING ANYTIME SOON.
AND THE ROUNDABOUT ACTUALLY MOVES SO THAT THE, THE PLANS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED, I GUESS THROUGHOUT THE
SO THE, THE ROUNDABOUTS ACTUALLY SITUATED FURTHER SOUTH, UH, SOUTHWEST I GUESS IT WOULD BE.
SO IT ALLOWS FOR MORE ROOM IN THAT CORNER FOR STORM, YOU KNOW, FOR GREEN SPACE TRAILS WALKABILITY.
SO I JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT, I MEAN, I NOTICE IT'S A SINGLE ARCH BRIDGE AT THIS POINT, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GONNA RAISE THE ELEVATION OF THAT, BUT JUST CONSIDERATION FOR ACCOMMODATION FOR PEDESTRIAN BICYCLE AND EQUESTRIAN FOR THAT MATTER.
I MEAN, CONSIDERING THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, SOME HORSE FARMS IN THAT AREA, SO YEAH, WE SHOULD, YEAH, THE, THE MULTIMODAL ELEMENTS ARE DEFINITELY INCLUDED AS PART OF OUR DESIGN TRAILS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
SO I, AND BUT ONE OF ON THE LOVER LANE PROJECT THAT AMANDA LANE, IS THAT TO BE A PUBLIC ROAD? I THINK THEY WOULD, WELL THEY OBVIOUSLY WOULD TRY TO DEDICATE, I THINK THE TOWNSHIP WOULD ACCEPT DEDICATION OF THAT ROAD.
BECAUSE I WAS LISTENING TO ALL THE, UH, CONVERSATION AROUND, UH, YOU KNOW, THE DANGEROUS PART OF PULLING OUT OF LOVER'S LANE ON THE 29TH AND THAT ABANDONED LANE ALTERNATIVE CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE THE BETTER SITE DISTANCES.
I, I, I THINK THAT'S THE EVALUATION WE'VE COME TO, BUT
[00:10:01]
I KNOW THAT THAT'S A SEPARATE APPLICATION THAT'S NOT HERE TONIGHT, SO I HATE TO START MAKING JUDGMENT CALLS ON THAT.I JUST, I DIDN'T WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION DURING THE NON QUESTIONS PART.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON NON OH, YEP, WE GO.
HI, SUSAN DENBY, 1 3 5 BENNINGTON ROAD.
UM, I JUST HAVE, UH, TWO, TWO THINGS.
ONE IS A FOLLOW UP TO WHAT BILL WAS SAYING ABOUT THE CONNECTIVITY FOR PARK HOUSE, FOR THE PARK HOUSE PROPERTY AND THE USE OF THE, UM, WELL THE NEW ROAD THAT'S GOING IN AND THE ROUNDABOUT AND THE BRIDGE FOR THE CONNECTIVITY.
I JUST, I SEE THAT AS SUCH A POSITIVE AND I KNOW THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE THINK YOU'RE CONSIDERING THAT'S A VERY COMMON SENSE APPROACH, BUT I WANTED TO ADD HOW MUCH POSITIVE IMPACT THAT HAS IN THE BROADER SENSE BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH MORE LAND THAT IS OPEN SPACE TOGETHER AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT MONTGOMERY COUNTY IS STRIVING FOR.
UH, EVEN IF THE TRAILS WERE PUT IN THERE, UH, IT JUST REALLY GIVES A LOT MORE VALUE TO THE WHOLE TOWNSHIP.
UH, SO I WANTED TO MAKE THAT POINT.
AND FOR THE ROAD, IS IT, IS THERE COMMENT OR PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE, ON THE DESIGN OF THAT AT ANY POINT? PUBLIC COMMENT, YOU MEAN TERMS? ARE WE, OR IS THE PUBLIC PUBLIC ABLE TO GIVE COMMENT ON HOW THE ROAD GETS CONSTRUCTED OR LIKE BILL WAS TALKING ABOUT A BRIDGE AND HEIGHT OF IT AND ARE WE ABLE TO SEE THAT BEFORE IT GETS SUBMITTED? YEAH, I MEAN, I GUESS THE, YOU KNOW, THE PLANS HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED TO PENDO, SO THEY ARE PUBLIC RECORD.
UM, OH, SO WE CAN JUST, YOU'RE DOING SOME MORE WORK ON IT WOULD BE, WE BE ABLE TO HAVE AN OP AN OPPORTUNITY TO WEIGH IN AT ONE OF THESE.
I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE AT LEAST AS AN INTRODUCTORY OR IT'S JUST A, A, SOMETHING ON THE BOARD AGENDA JUST TO SORT OF KEEP THEM IN THE LOOP.
SO YOU WOULD SEE IT THEN AND, AND OBVIOUSLY IF IT'S ON A BOARD MEETING AGENDA, YOU COULD SPEAK AT THE VERY BEGINNING AND IT WOULD BE PART OF THE BOARD PACKET AND INFORMATION.
I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S A HUNDRED ISH FA FAMILIES WHO LIVE AND HAVE TO USE THAT EGRESS AS THEIR ONLY WAY OUT.
BUT, BUT SINCE IT IS AN ENGINEERING DRAWING, I MEAN, WE CERTAINLY WANT INPUT, BUT THERE'S TECHNICALITY THAT GOES IN WITH IT TOO.
I MEAN, WE HAVE COPIES OF IT HERE.
YOU CAN PUT IN A RIGHT TO NO REQUEST TODAY AND SEE THE DOCUMENTS TOMORROW, BUT, AND THAT WE COULD, AND WE COULD GET YOU THOSE.
IT IS JUST ONCE WE SORT OF GET TO A CERTAIN POINT IN THE DESIGN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE DESIGNING TO A, A PEN STANDARD AND THINGS LIKE THAT, SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MUCH INFLUENCE WE HAVE ON IT AFTER WE MEET THE PEN STANDARDS.
THERE'S A, ON IT'S VAUGHN ROAD, WHEN THEY DID THE, THEY TORE UP SOME OF THE ROAD, UH, GOING UP TO LEWIS AND YES, THAT'S THE WATER COMPANY.
THEY ARE, THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS OF FINISHING THAT FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, AND THEY WILL SMOOTH SOME OF IT OUT.
I DRIVE IT EVERY DAY, SO I'M, I'M WELL AWARE OF IT, BOB.
IT IS RIGHT OUT IN FRONT OF OUR DEVELOPMENT, SO WE, UH, OKAY.
AND, AND, AND BELIEVE ME, WE'RE INTERESTED IN SEEING THE PLAN ON THE TURNAROUND AND THE BRIDGE ALSO.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL INTERESTED IN THAT.
YEAH, I THINK, AND I, I'LL JUST MENTION QUICKLY.
SO BESIDES PENDO, MONTGOMERY COUNTY HAS ALSO BEEN PART OF THE, UH, COORDINATION FOR THE, UH, DESIGN AND THE MULTIMODAL AND PEDESTRIAN CONNECTIVITIES AND A LOT OF DISCUSSION WITH THE PARK AND EVERYTHING TOO.
JUST WANTED TO MENTION ANY MORE ON ANY OTHER PROJECT OTHER THAN WHAT'S ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT, NOT SEEING ANY OR MOVE TO OUR AGENDA ITEM,
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
WHICH IS THE RO FOR BAPTIST CHURCH, UH, HOUSING PLAN.UM, I'M JUST GONNA OPEN THE COMMENTS BY SAYING ONE THING WE, I THINK WE DID LEARN FROM OUR PARK HOUSE EXPERIENCE THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T THINK I'M NOT ANTICIPATING THIS, BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE ANY ACCUSATORY OR RUDE COMMENTS, WHICH IS NOT GONNA ALLOW THAT.
WE WANT YOU TO GET YOUR QUESTIONS OUT.
WE WANT YOU TO ASK YOUR QUESTIONS.
BUT I THINK TONIGHT I'M ASKING EVERYBODY TO LOOK AT THIS AS A LEARN, LISTEN, AND LEARN 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR US.
I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE ANY VOTE REQUIRED TONIGHT.
SO NOTHING'S GONNA BE DECIDED TONIGHT.
WE'RE GONNA LEARN YOUR QUESTIONS ARE MORE THAN WELCOME.
I WANT TO GIVE YOUR QUESTIONS, I WANT TO HEAR YOUR CONCERNS, BUT LET'S JUST BE RESPECTFUL.
WE'RE GONNA HOLD IT TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON.
AND WE'RE ASKING YOU ALSO, IF SOMEBODY MAKES A POINT AND YOU HAVE THAT SAME POINT, WE HEARD THE POINT, IT'S BEING TAPED.
WE HAVE IT, WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE IT TWO OR THREE TIMES BEING THAT THIS IS NOT A PLAN THAT WE'RE JUDGING TONIGHT.
WE CAN CUT THIS OFF AT ANY TIME.
[00:15:01]
SO I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.I WANT EVERYBODY TO GET THEIR OPPORTUNITY TO TALK.
UM, BUT JUST BE RESPECTFUL TO THREE MINUTES AND TO LISTEN TO WHAT THESE FOLKS HAVE TO SAY TONIGHT.
BELIEVE ME, NONE OF US ARE MAKING ANY JUDGEMENTS.
WE'RE, WE'RE CONCERNED TOO, WE WANT TO HEAR, BUT WE'RE HERE TO LEARN.
AND MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I CAN ADD ON TO THAT, SOME OF, I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHO, BUT I KNOW THAT THE CHURCH AND MISSION FIRST HAVE PUT TOGETHER SOME TOWN HALLS.
SO THERE MIGHT BE MORE AUDIENCE MEMBERS, PROBABLY AUDIENCE MEMBERS OUT THERE THAT KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS THAN WE DO, RIGHT? ALL WE HAVE IS THE PAPERS THAT WERE SUBMITTED TO US AND ONE CASUAL MEETING TALKING ABOUT THE PROCESS THAT WE'VE HAD, UM, AS IN, YOU KNOW, FROM STAFF.
SO FROM OUR STANDPOINT, WE ARE, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT WE DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT.
SO WE, WE, WE REALLY JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT AND THEN THE PROPOSAL.
AND WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO REPEAT THE PARK HOUSE IS ISSUES.
WE WANT TO KEEP THIS CIVIL AND LEARN.
SO PLEASE, PLEASE TRY TO DO THAT.
SO I GUESS WE HAVE A PRESENTER WHO'S GONNA DO THAT TONIGHT.
WHO'S GONNA START? I THINK I'M UP FIRST.
PLEASE JUST IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
AND I'M REVEREND SARAH STREL, AND FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS, I'VE HAD THE HONOR OF SERVING AS THE PASTOR OF ROERS WORD BAPTIST CHURCH, OR RBC AS WE LIKE TO CALL OURSELVES.
THANK YOU SO MUCH TO ALL OF YOU FOR ALLOWING US TO PRESENT THIS EXCITING INITIATIVE TO YOU THIS EVENING.
AND I SO APPRECIATE YOUR WORDS ABOUT THIS BEING A TIME FOR US TO LEARN, UM, BECAUSE WE JUST WANNA SHARE THIS WITH YOU, HEAR YOUR FEEDBACK, UM, TAKE THOSE CONCERNS THAT COME UP, UM, AND CREATE A GREAT PROJECT TOGETHER.
TO GET US STARTED, I WANNA TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT RBC, WHO WE ARE.
WE WERE INCORPORATED IN 1879 IN ROYERSFORD, ACTUALLY BEFORE ROYERSFORD WAS REYERS FORD.
OUR ORIGINAL LOCATION WAS AT FOURTH AND CHURCH IN THE BOROUGH THERE.
AND IT WAS IN THE EARLY 1960S THAT WE MOVED TO OUR CURRENT LOCATION AT SOUTH LEWIS AND ON CROSSING OVER THE LINE INTO UPPER PROVIDENCE.
THROUGHOUT OUR 145 YEAR HISTORY, WHETHER IN ROYERS, FORD OR UPPER PROVIDENCE, WE'VE BEEN COMMITTED TO THE COMMUNITY AROUND US THROUGH OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS SUCH AS PROJECT OUTREACH AND ORION, THROUGH PROVIDING RELIEF AFTER LOCAL NATURAL DISASTERS.
WE HOST LOCAL GROUPS LIKE AA AND GIRL SCOUTS, AS WELL AS HOSTING VOTING ON ELECTION DAY.
WE PROVIDE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PEOPLE IN THE AREA WHO ARE IN NEED OF TEMPORARY SHELTER AND GROCERIES.
AND WE'VE BECOME, AND WE ARE A SAFE AND WELCOMING SPIRITUAL HOME FOR MANY IN ALL THAT WE DO.
WE SEEK TO LIVE OUT THE COMMAND TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS THROUGH A LONG HERITAGE OF PRACTICAL ACTIONS THAT MEET IDENTIFIED NEEDS, WHICH IS WHAT LEADS US TO TONIGHT.
THERE ARE SO MANY NEEDS IN OUR COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW.
AMONG THE MOST DIRE IS HOUSING FOR WORKING FAMILIES.
THIS HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A PRIORITY FOR OUR LEADERS HERE IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY AND ACROSS THE NATION.
WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT THIS PARTNERSHIP WITH MISSION FIRST, THAT CAN BRING SOME MUCH NEEDED RELIEF IN THIS AREA.
AND WITH THAT, I WILL HAND IT OVER TO OUR PARTNERS MISSION FIRST.
MY NAME IS SUE MCPHERON AND I AM THE DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT FOR MISSION FIRST HOUSING GROUP.
UM, COULD YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE? MISSION FIRST HOUSING GROUP IS A NON-PROFIT, AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPER.
UM, WE'VE BEEN AROUND FOR AROUND 35 YEARS, AND WE WORK THROUGHOUT THE MID-ATLANTIC REGION.
WE HAVE UNITS, UH, PROJECTS AS FAR NORTH AS MIDDLESEX COUNTY, NEW JERSEY THROUGH EASTERN PENNSYLVANIA, YORK AND LANCASTER COUNTIES.
AND THEN, UM, DOWN IN THE DC AREA, INCLUDING THE MARYLAND SUBURBS OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.
WE OWN OVER 4,000 APARTMENTS THROUGHOUT OUR FOOTPRINT, AND WE SERVE MORE THAN 5,000 PEOPLE, SENIORS, FAMILIES, VETERANS, UM, AND SOME OTHER SPECIAL POPULATIONS.
SO WHY, WHY WORKFORCE HOUSING? WHY DO WE THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT HERE? AND IT'S SIMPLE SO THAT PEOPLE WHO WORK IN OUR COMMUNITY CAN LIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY.
IT'S HARD TO AFFORD AN APARTMENT OR A HOUSE IN THIS AREA IF YOU ARE A LOWER WAGE WORKER.
SO, AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL, WHAT WE WILL BE PROPOSING, AND YOU'LL HEAR MORE ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF THE PLANNING PART OF THE PROJECT, THE SITE PLAN, AND THE DESIGN FROM, UM, OUR ENGINEER AND OUR ARCHITECT IN A MOMENT.
BUT, UM, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RENTS THERE, I, GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE RENTS THAT WE WOULD PROPOSE FOR CYPRUS PLACE WILL BE AROUND 30% LESS THAN RENTS,
[00:20:01]
UH, AT AN APARTMENT IN THE AREA.SO THOSE RENTS ARE TAKEN FROM, UH, CURRENT RENTS ON APARTMENTS.COM.
AND THEN WE'VE ALSO HAD SOME WORK DONE BY A MARKET ANALYST TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT IS.
IF YOU GO TO THE, IF YOU SAY LIKE, WELL, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WHAT DOES THAT TRANSLATE INTO? SO THE MINIMUM INCOME THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO HAVE IN THE VERY FIRST BOX UP THERE ON THE TOP LEFT TO AFFORD A ONE BEDROOM AND A TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT ARE LISTED THERE.
SO 30,000 FOR A ONE BEDROOM, 36,000 FOR A TWO BEDROOM, AND 41,000 FOR A THREE BEDROOM.
AND THEN THERE'S AN UPPER LIMIT, WHICH IS SHOWN ON THE BOTTOM, AND THAT GOES BY HOUSEHOLD SIZE.
SO THERE'S A RANGE OF PEOPLE THAT COULD AFFORD THESE, UM, UNITS.
AND THEN YOU SAY, OKAY, WELL WHO, LIKE, WHO HAS AN INCOME LIKE THAT? SO, EARLIER TODAY, I WENT ON INDEED.COM AND I WENT ON THE SPRING FORWARD SCHOOL DISTRICT WEBSITE JUST TO LOOK AND SEE WHAT KIND OF OPEN POSITIONS THERE ARE RIGHT NOW.
AND THERE ARE MANY, BUT I JUST PLUCKED A FEW OUT.
SO PEOPLE THAT WORK AT DAYCARE, THE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN OPEN POSITION FOR THE SECRETARY AT UPPER PROVIDENCE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
THERE'S FOOD PREP JOBS, THERE WAS A MAMMOGRAPHY, ASSISTANT MEDICAL ASSISTANTS, JOBS LIKE THAT WHERE PEOPLE ARE EARNING AN HOURLY WAGE FROM LIKE 17 50, 20 $2, $25 AN HOUR.
SO THOSE ARE THE FOLKS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, SERVING, UM, IN THE MARKET.
AND WE DID SOME VERY PRELIMINARY LOOK AT THE MARKET TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW MANY FAMILIES HOUSEHOLDS MIGHT QUALIFY HERE.
AND PRELIMINARILY, 700 TO 800 HOUSEHOLDS LIVING IN UPPER PROVIDENCE, FALL WITHIN THE INCOME BAND DOESN'T MEAN THAT EVERYBODY WOULD WANNA LIVE THERE OR COULD, YOU KNOW, MOVE THERE.
BUT JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE THAT THERE ARE FOLKS IN THE COMMUNITY THAT ARE IN THAT BAND, AND THAT'S ONLY UPPER PROVIDENCE.
NO, NONE OF THE SURROUNDING, UM, COMMUNITIES.
UM, SO IT CAN BE HARD FOR EMPLOYERS TO FILL THESE POSITIONS BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE TROUBLE FINDING HOUSING, UH, CLOSE TO WHERE THEY WOULD WORK.
UM, AS PASTOR SARAH SAID, MONTGOMERY COUNTY HAS IDENTIFIED THIS AS A NEED.
IN FACT, THEY, AND I'M NOT SURE IF ANYONE, UM, FROM UPPER PROVIDENCE WENT TO IT, BUT THERE WAS A CONFERENCE IN APRIL THAT WAS HOSTED BY THE COUNTY, UM, AT NORMANDY FARM, KIND OF FOCUSED ON THIS ISSUE OF FIGURING OUT TOGETHER HOW WE CAN, UM, CREATE MORE HOUSING THAT IT IS AT A PRICE POINT THAT IS MORE AFFORDABLE TO LOWER TO THE LOWER WAGE WORKERS WHO, YOU KNOW, BAG OUR GROCERIES, STOCK OUR SHELVES, WORK IN RETAIL LOCATIONS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, SO AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING, AND I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO, UH, NICK, UH, IN A MOMENT, UH, WE WOULD LIKE TO BUILD BETWEEN 42 AND 48 UNITS, UH, ON LAND THAT IS BEHIND THE CHURCH AND OWNED BY THE CHURCH.
IT WOULD BE A MIX OF ONE, TWO, AND THREE BEDROOM APARTMENTS, MOSTLY TWOS, BUT ONES AND THREE BEDROOMS. ALSO, WE HAVE A VARIETY OF THINGS ABOUT THE DESIGN THAT YOU'LL HEAR ABOUT THAT WE'VE TRIED TO DO TO MINIMIZE THE IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING, UM, ON THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES.
UM, SO WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO TELLING YOU MORE ABOUT THAT.
SO I'LL TURN IT OVER TO NICK FIOLA FROM RSON.
JEFF, CAN YOU, CAN YOU BRING UP VERY GOOD
NICK FIOLA WITH SAGE ASSOCIATES.
I'M A CIVIL ENGINEER FOR, UH, WORKS FOR BAPTIST CHURCH, UH, WORKING IN COORDINATION WITH BRUCE WEINER, UH, THE ARCHITECT ON THE PROJECT.
UH, JUST TO GIVE A, UH, SORT OF A, A BIG, BIG PICTURE OVERVIEW OF WHERE THE SITE'S LOCATED.
I THINK EVERYBODY MAY HAVE A GOOD VIEW, BUT I THINK THIS MAP GIVES US A GOOD CONTEXT.
UH, IT'S A FOUR, ROUGHLY FOUR AND A HALF ACRE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 4 52 SOUTH LOUIS ROAD.
UH, JUST TO THE, I'M GONNA SAY EAST OF THE, UH, SPRINGPORT NINTH GRADE CENTER.
I BELIEVE THERE'S TWO, UH, TWO PROPERTIES, UH, IN BETWEEN THE, THE SCHOOL PROPERTY AND THE CHURCH.
UH, AND, UH, ONE PROPERTY AWAY FROM THE INTERSECTION OF ON.
AND, UH, IN SOUTH LEWIS ROAD, UH, CURRENTLY CONTAINS A, UH, ROUGHLY A 22,000 SQUARE FOOT CHURCH BUILDING, UH, WITH ROUGHLY 120 PLUS OR MINUS PARKING SPACES.
UH, ACCESS IS CURRENTLY TAKEN FROM TWO TWO, UH, FULL ACCESS DRIVEWAYS OFF OF SOUTH LEWIS ROAD, UH, WHICH WOULD REMAIN AS, AS PART OF THIS PROJECT.
UH, THE SURROUNDING AREA, AS YOU CAN SEE, UH, DIRECTLY, I'M GONNA SAY TO THE, THE NORTH OF US IS PROPERTY ZONED, UH, VILLAGE, COMMERCIAL OFFICE.
UH, WE DO FALL UNDER THE INSTITUTIONAL OVERLAY DISTRICT.
SO, UH, THIS, UH, PARTICULAR USE, UH, THAT, THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR, UH, ISN'T CURRENTLY PERMITTED, UH, WITHIN, UH, WITHIN THE INSTITUTIONAL, UH, OVERLAY.
BUT AS I, AS I PROCEED AROUND, UH, WE HAVE, UH, R
[00:25:01]
THREE, UH, THE SCHOOL LANE AND SCHOOL SIDE COURT PROPERTIES, R ZONED R THREE, I BELIEVE THEY ARE, UH, TWO FAMILY OR, OR TWIN TYPE UNITS.UH, AND THEN AS WE PROCEED, PROCEED DOWN TO VAUGHN ROAD, UH, TO THE, UH, GUESS THAT WOULD BE THE, TO THE SOUTH OF, UH, OF SCHOOL LANE, UH, THAT THOSE PROPERTIES ARE ZONED, R TWO.
UH, AND THEN AS WE PROCEED OUT TO, UH, MR. ST PEDRO'S, UH, OFFICE, UH, BUILDING THERE, UH, THAT GETS BACK INTO THE, UH, THE VILLAGE COMMERCIAL.
SO, SO WE WERE SURROUNDED BY, UH, YOU KNOW, VILLAGE COMMERCIAL AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, SOMEWHAT MORE DENSE, I BELIEVE IN THE R TWO AND THREE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT 10,000 TO, TO 15,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS, I THINK, WITH PUBLIC WATER AND SEWER.
SO, JEFF, CAN YOU GO TO THE COLOR SKETCH? SO THIS, UH, THIS COLOR RENDERING, UH, SKETCH IS A OF RENDERING OF, OF OUR SKETCH PLAN.
UH, AND THEN WHAT THAT DEPICTS IS, UH, WHAT I'M GONNA SAY ON THE RIGHT HALF OF THE PROPERTY IS THE EXISTING CHURCH BUILDING, UH, THE EXISTING PARKING.
WHAT THIS DOESN'T SHOW IS, UH, THE PARKING THAT'S UP IN WHAT I'LL SAY, THE UPPER RIGHT HAND CORNER IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH, UH, CONTINUES AROUND THE TOP OF THE CHURCH AND THEN CONTINUES AROUND THE BACK OF THE CHURCH, AND THEN DEAD ENDS AT THE, UH, AT THE LOWER PROPERTY LINE.
IT DOES NOT CONNECT BACK IN WITH, UH, WITH, WITH THE, UH, THE ACCESS DRIVE.
SO PEOPLE HAVE TO GO BACK AROUND AND CLOCKWISE, UH, UH, CIRCULATION IN ORDER TO GET, GET BACK OUT.
SO WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING HERE IS TO ADD, UH, IN, IN THE REALM OF 42 TO 48 APARTMENT UNITS IN A SOMEWHAT L-SHAPED BUILDING THERE, UH, THAT WOULD BE SITUATED, UH, BEHIND THE CHURCH BUILDING.
UH, THERE WOULD BE A, UH, THERE WOULD BE SOME COURTYARDS, UH, TOP AND A, UH, POSSIBLY A PAVILION, UH, IN THE AREA BETWEEN THE TWO.
AND THERE WOULD BE, UH, SIDEWALK, UH, CONNECTIVITY BETWEEN THE CHURCH AS WELL AS THE, UH, AS WELL AS THE APARTMENTS AS, UH, AS, UH, MR. WEINSTEIN WILL, WILL EXPLAIN SORT OF THE, HOW, HOW THINGS WILL FUNCTION BETWEEN, UH, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN THE UNITS OF THE CHURCH.
WE ARE PROPOSING TO ADD ADDITIONAL PARKING, UH, AROUND THE APARTMENTS, UH, BOTH IN THE BACK AND THEN ALONG THE SIDE.
AND THEN BASICALLY TYING THE PARKING LOT BACK IN WITH THE EXISTING PARKING LOT, UH, IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH.
UH, ONE OF THE THINGS, AS I DID SOME RESEARCH FROM PREVIOUS LAND DEVELOPMENT PLANS THAT I FOUND OUT WAS, UH, I BELIEVE THE ORIGINAL LAND DEVELOPMENT WAS DONE IN ROUGHLY THE MID SIXTIES IN 1988.
UH, THERE WAS AN ADDITIONAL LAND DEVELOPMENT.
UH, THERE WAS, UH, IN BOTH OF THOSE PLANS, THERE WAS PARKING AND ACCESS THAT WAS, UH, PROVIDED IN RESERVE, UH, BOTH IN THE, WHAT I'LL SAY, THE, THE LOWER RIGHT CORNER.
AND THEN GOING OUT THE BACK TO, UH, THE SCHOOL, UH, SCHOOL LANE.
UH, THERE WAS A, AN ACCESS DRIVE, UH, THAT WAS SHOWN THERE AGAIN, THAT IT WAS, IT WAS RESERVED FOR FUTURE.
I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS A, UH, A DEPRESSED CURB.
THERE IS A DEPRESSED CURB AND A CONCRETE APRON THAT WAS INSTALLED THERE.
CURRENTLY, WE ARE SHOWING IT AS, AS AN ACCESS DRIVE OUT.
UH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THIS IS CONCEPTUAL, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, UH, KICKED AROUND, YOU KNOW, POSSIBLY MAKING IT A, AN EMERGENCY ACCESS ONLY.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE FURTHER DISCUSSION SHOULD HOPEFULLY WE BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH, WITH THE TOWNSHIP AND PARTICULARLY YOUR, UH, YOUR FIRE MARSHAL.
UM, AND THEN STORM WATER WISE, THERE'S AN EXISTING BASIN, UH, THAT, THAT CURRENTLY NOW SITS, UH, IN THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY THAT BASIN WAS INSTALLED AND I BELIEVE IT WAS ROUGHLY 2000 AS PART OF A, UH, LAND DEVELOPMENT FOR A, UH, SMALL BUILDING ADDITION AND A, AND A FEW PARKING SPACES THERE.
SO PRIOR TO THAT TIME, UH, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS ANY, WHAT I'LL CALL STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, UH, THAT BASIN, UH, WOULD BE MODIFIED, UH, IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE, UH, THIS DEVELOPMENT.
UH, ONE OF THE THINGS IS I THINK EVERYONE IS PROBABLY AWARE OF, STORMWATER IS VERY HEAVILY REGULATED, UH, YOU KNOW, TODAY.
SO, UH, THE, THE, THE BASIN THAT, THAT THE BA BASIN THAT WE WOULD DO, UH, WOULD BE MUCH DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S OUT THERE NOW.
UH, IT WOULD HAVE TO INCORPORATE BOTH RATE CONTROL WITH A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION DIMITRI ORDINANCES, UH, THE 50 YEAR POST TO THE TWO YEAR PRE, WHICH ROUGHLY IS ABOUT A 50%, UH, REDUCTION THAT I SEE ON OTHER PROJECTS, UH, IN PEAK FLOW RATE.
WE ALSO HAVE TO MANAGE THE VOLUME, SO WE TRY TO GET THE WATER, UH, YOU KNOW, INTO THE GROUND OR TREATED, UH, WITH, WITH VEGETATION, UH, OTHER THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES.
SO, UH, THAT STORY, I THINK STORMWATER MANAGEMENT HERE WILL, UH, YOU KNOW, WILL BE ABLE TO, UH, NOT ONLY MANAGE, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE HAVE HERE, WE WILL ALSO DO OUR BEST TO TRY TO, UH, HELP OUT WITH ANY, UH, ANY ISSUES THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT THERE MAY BE, UH,
[00:30:01]
THAT, THAT WE CAN, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE WE'RE PART OF A LARGER DRAINAGE AREA THAT FLOWS, UH, TO THE, AND GONNA CALL IT TO THE SOUTH, UH, YOU KNOW, BEYOND, UH, YOU KNOW, I GUESS A SCHOOL LANE AND THEN FURTHER TO THE SOUTH THERE.UH, SO YOU WANNA CHECK OFF, HEY, HEY, DAN, IS THIS A, ARE YOU SUBDIVIDING? NO, NO, WE ARE NOT.
AND JUST, I SHOULD HAVE MAYBE LED UP THIS, THIS IS ACTUALLY CONSISTS OF TWO PARCELS.
THERE'S THE MAIN PARCEL, WHICH IS EVERYTHING BUT 434 SQUARE FEET.
THERE'S A SMALL TRIANGULAR PARCEL, 434 SQUARE FEET WHERE THE, UH, ACCESS GOING OUT TO SCHOOL LANE IS, UH, SO RIGHT NOW THEY ARE TWO SEPARATE PARCELS.
WE ARE NOT, UH, AT THE, AT THIS TIME, UH, OUR PLAN DOES NOT SHOW A SUBDIVISION.
IF, IF YOU COULD LEAVE THIS PLAN OFF THERE FOR JUST A MINUTE.
BRUCE WEINSTEIN WITH ARCHITECTURAL CONCEPTS, UH, WE LOOKED AT SEVERAL OPTIONS WHEN WE, WE FIRST STARTED LOOKING AT THIS, UH, THIS DEVELOPMENT.
UM, ONE WAS TO ACTUALLY PUSH THE BUILDING FURTHER AWAY FROM THE CHURCH AND LEAVE THE EXISTING PARKING LOT IN PLACE, BUT IN THE END, WE DECIDED TO TUCK IT IN TIGHTER TO THE CHURCH TO CREATE THAT COURTYARD SPACE IN BETWEEN, AND ALSO TO TAKE, UH, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SOME UNDERUTILIZED SPACE WITHIN THE CHURCH ITSELF.
SO WE'LL BE USING THE COMMUNITY ROOM, THE, UM, GYMNASIUM AND PROBABLY SOME OF THE OFFICE SPACE FOR, UH, AMENITIES FOR THIS PROJECT AS WELL.
UH, SO WE'RE, WE'RE HAPPY WITH THE WAY IT LAID OUT.
IT'S, IT'S, IT CREATES A LITTLE PRIVATE COURTYARD IN BETWEEN AND PUSHES THE PARKING AS A BUFFER BACK TO THE RETENTION BASIN.
AND, UH, THE BASIN ITSELF STAYS IN PLACE AND, UH, THE EXISTING TREE LINE, UH, BLOCKS OUT THE NEIGHBORS, AND WE WOULD CERTAINLY SUPPLEMENT ANY, ANY, UH, HOLES IN THAT TREE LINE AS WELL.
JUST TO, JUST TO AID IN THE SCREENING.
UH, JEFF, IF YOU COULD PULL UP THE NEXT, SO HERE'S A QUICK SKETCH.
UH, THE, THE BUILDING ITSELF, UM, IS, AS, AS NICK MENTIONED, IS L-SHAPED BUILDING SOMEWHERE IN THE AREA OF 42 TO 48 UNITS.
UH, I THINK THE FINAL UNIT COUNT WILL DEPEND ON THE, UM, ON THE MIX.
UM, I THINK AT THIS POINT WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT PRETTY MUCH A, AN EVEN SPLIT BETWEEN ONE, TWO AND THREE BEDROOM UNITS AND THE BUILDING'S BROKEN UP BY THE STAIRWELLS.
UH, THERE'S ACTUALLY FOUR STAIRWELLS IN BETWEEN, SO IT BREAKS UP THE MASS OF THE BUILDING.
UH, ARCHITECTURALLY, THERE WASN'T ANYTHING REALLY TO TIE INTO WITH THE CHURCH THAT WE SAW.
UH, SO WE'RE LOOKING TO KEEP IT MORE ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE, RESIDENTIAL SCALE WITH A PITCHED ROOF, UM, MATERIALS THAT YOU WOULD BE ACCUSTOMED TO IN ANY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT WOULD BE A, A SIDING AND, AND THE BRICK FACADE.
I'M THE ATTORNEY, ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS FOR MISSION FIRST.
AND I JUST WANNA ECHO THE GRATITUDE OF THE OTHER PRESENTERS FOR, UH, ALLOWING US HERE TODAY TO EXPLAIN ITS EXCITING OPPORTUNITY TO YOU AND I'LL, I'LL KEEP IT BRIEF, BUT I'M BASICALLY JUST HERE TO EXPLAIN SOME, UH, ZONING, POTENTIAL ZONING CONSIDERATIONS AS WE SEE THEM AND, AND HOW WE WOULD PLAN TO, UH, APPROACH THOSE ZONING CONSIDERATIONS.
SO IT IS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED IN THE IN OVERLAY DISTRICT, AND RIGHT NOW, UH, APARTMENTS ARE NOT CURRENTLY PERMITTED IN THE I END OVERLAY DISTRICT, UH, PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 300 DASH 3 97 AND 300 DASH 3 98.
UM, SO RIGHT NOW WE SEE THAT THERE ARE LIMITED MULTI-FAMILY AND APARTMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR WORKING PEOPLE, UH, AND THEIR FAMILIES UNDER THAT CURRENT ZONING.
SO WHAT WE WOULD PROPOSE IS TO FILE A PETITION FOR REZONING, NOT A CHALLENGE TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE SOLELY TO FACILITATE THIS USE AT THE PROPERTY SUCH THAT IT WOULD BE A DISCREET REZONING.
AND ONE OF THE IDEAS THAT WE MIGHT SUGGEST IS THAT, UH, YOU COULD ALLOW THE USE, UH, WHEN IT IS COMBINED WITH, UH, SAY, A RELIGIOUS OR AN INSTITUTIONAL USE.
AND AS LUCK WOULD HAVE IT, WE DO HAVE THAT RIGHT NOW, UM, UH, WITH THE CHURCH USE THERE ON THE PROPERTY.
UH, ONE OF THE OTHER CONSIDERATIONS PERTAINS TO, UH, SECTION 300 DASH THREE NINE POINT A, UM, THAT THE LOT AREA RIGHT NOW IS 4.461 ACRES, AND THE OVERLAY DISTRICT CALLS FOR A MINIMUM OF FIVE ACRES.
ANOTHER CONSIDERATION IS THAT SECTION 300 DASH 3 99 POINT B, UH, REQUA LIMITS, UH, THE LOT COVERAGE TO 50%.
AND HERE WE HAVE A LOT COVERED PROPOSED FOR JUST OVER
[00:35:01]
57%.UH, THE CURRENT OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS IN THE OVERLAY DISTRICT, UH, DON'T MATCH UP WITH, WITH THE VISION OF THE PROPOSED USE AS, AS WE'RE CURRENTLY PROPOSING.
UM, AND THEN LAST BUT NOT LEAST, SECTION 300 DASH 3 99 POINT E, UM, PROPOSED PARKING ALLOW ALONG SOUTH LEWIS ROAD IS, IS EXTENDED IN LINE WITH THE EXISTING PARKING AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE RESERVE PARKING SETBACKS SHOWN ON THE APPROVED, UH, YEAR 2000 DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THE SITE.
UH, THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, PARKING SETBACKS, IF APPLICABLE, UH, ARE MORE RESTRICTIVE.
AND FROM WHAT I CAN SEE, THOSE SETBACKS RANGE FROM 20 FEET TO 35 FEET.
UM, SO AGAIN, I I, I WILL KEEP THIS BRIEF AND JUST TO CLOSE, WE SEE THIS AS A, A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE, UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, UH, FOR THOSE WHO ARE WORKING HERE IN THE TOWNSHIP, UH, TO LIVE HERE AS WELL.
AND WE HOPE THAT THE TOWNSHIP IS AMENABLE TO IT.
AND, AND AGAIN, I THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
I'M NOT SURE IF ANYONE ELSE HAS ANYTHING FURTHER TO SAY, BUT THANK, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR, UH, INTRODUCTION.
YOU MIGHT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH NEEDING ZONING, HEARING BOARD RELIEF FOR HAVING TWO USES ON ONE LOT WITHOUT A SUBDIVISION.
SO YOU, THE, THE TOWNSHIP BOARD JUST DOESN'T ALLOW TWO SEPARATE USES EXCEPT WHERE IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT IT DOES, AND I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THE IN IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS APPLICATION, BUT I DOUBT IT SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS THAT COMBINATION OF USES.
THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO I THINK, YEAH, AND I THINK AND THAT, THAT POINT'S WELL TAKEN.
AND I THINK OUR APPROACH THERE WOULD BE TO, THAT'S WHY WE WOULD SUBMIT THE PETITION FOR REZONING IN ORDER TO POTENTIALLY ALLOW FOR THE DUAL USE ON THIS PROPERTY RIGHT HERE.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD BE GEARING TOWARD ACCOMPLISHING.
AND THERE, THERE ARE DUAL USES AND IN FACT, DO WE USE PROJECTS PENDING OR, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU HAVE MAYBE, UH, SHOPS BELOW, APARTMENTS ABOVE, THAT KIND OF THING.
BUT THOSE ARE TECHNICALLY TWO DIFFERENT USES WHERE THEY'RE IN SYMMETRY WITH EACH OTHER.
THE CHALLENGE WOULD BE WRITING IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT THE INSTITUTIONAL USE OF THE RESIDENTIAL USE ARE ACTUALLY A, A LOGICAL FIT WITH, WITH ONE ANOTHER.
AND, AND, AND WE WOULD HOPE WE COULD COUCH IT THAT WAY SUCH THAT, THAT DID MAKE SENSE.
AND WE DO THINK IT MAKES GOOD SENSE HERE.
AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE GOAL OF THE PETITION.
BUT AGAIN, YOUR POINT'S VERY WELL TAKEN.
I UNDERSTAND THE INTRODUCTION ABOUT THE WORKFORCE LIVING, UM, ASPECT OF IT, BUT YOU'RE THAT IT IS STILL JUST APARTMENTS, RIGHT? AND UP FOR ZONING PURPOSES.
IT'S NOT A DIFFERENT TYPE OF USE THAN A CONVENTIONAL APARTMENT, IT'S STILL JUST AN APARTMENT.
THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY UNDERSTANDING.
THAT, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, YES.
IN TERMS OF HOW IT WOULD TIE INTO THE OTHER ORDINANCES, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE WERE IN AGREEMENT THAT IT WASN'T A DISCREET USE THAT YOU WERE SOMEHOW DIFFERENTIATING FROM OTHER APARTMENT USES.
IT WOULD BE, IT IS STILL THE, AS FAR AS A USE CATEGORY GOES, YES.
STILL A RESIDENTIAL APARTMENT.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE ZONING, WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ZONING, RIGHT? YOU HAVE TO APPLY TO THE ZONING AB ABSOLUTELY.
RIGHT? WE CAN'T CHANGE ZONING, WE CAN'T APPROVE ZONING.
THAT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE ZONING BOARD.
ONCE THEY APPROVE IT, THEN IT COMES TO US, THEN WE KNOW THAT THAT'S BEEN OKAY.
JUST THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD PLACE TO START.
SO YEAH, GOOD TO KNOW THAT YOU GOT SOME ING ISSUES AND UH, THAT'S GOOD FOR FOR US TO KNOW THAT.
BUT AS LONG AS WE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE NOT GONNA DECIDE THAT.
AND, AND AGAIN, WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
SO, UM, UH, BEFORE I GET TO THE PUBLIC, UH, I'M SURE, 'CAUSE I'M SURE WE HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS, I HAVE QUESTIONS.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO, IF YOU HAVE NOTHING, THAT'S FINE.
I DIDN'T NEED TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT HERE.
UH, I THINK YOU, YOU MENTIONED STORM WATER A LITTLE WHILE AGO.
UM, IT SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY BIG AREA RIGHT NOW, AND YOU'RE PUTTING MORE BUILDING AND PARKING IN.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S GONNA WORK, BUT WELL, YOU HAVE TO WORK, MAKE THOSE NUMBERS WORK, CORRECT.
AND, AND BASICALLY YOUR ORDINANCE STATES THAT, SO WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO CONTROL THE 50 YEAR STORM BACK TO A TWO YEAR STORM.
SO BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS, IS THAT REGARDLESS, LEMME SAY, REGARDLESS OF WHAT OUR IMPERVIOUS IS, WE'RE STILL HAVING TO CONTROL TO THAT TWO YEAR STORM, LIKE PEAK, PEAK FLOW.
WHAT IT DOES IS IT MAKES OUR FACILITIES LARGER, UH, AND, AND WE DO HAVE TO MAKE THE NUMBERS WORK IN THAT.
AND, AND, YOU KNOW, WE, WE ARE AWARE OF THAT.
WE'VE DONE IT ON OTHER PROJECTS IN THE MUNICIPALITY.
SO IN THAT CASE, THE IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE REALLY, YOU KNOW, WHETHER WE HAD HAD 50, WHETHER
[00:40:01]
WE HAD 60 OR WHATEVER, WE'RE STILL HAVING TO DIS OR PEAK DISCHARGE RATE IS, IS THE SAME REALLY LOWER LIMIT FROM THE TWO YEAR STORM BECAUSE THAT'S THE EXISTING RATE.SO NICOLE, YOU READY? I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF PHRASE QUESTION.
JERRY, YOU GOT SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO, UH, YEAH, I GUESS A QUESTION, UH, SOME CONCERNS.
UM, BUT, UH, UH, I GUESS, UH, ONE SIMPLE QUESTION WAS, YOU KNOW, HOW DID YOU DETERMINE THE NUMBER OF UNITS YOU WERE SHOOTING FOR? UH, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S, I MEAN, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S, IT'S KIND OF CRAMMED IN AND JUST WONDERING HOW YOU ARRIVED AT THE NUMBER OF UNITS.
YEAH, SO I MEAN, PART OF HOW WE ARRIVED AT THE NUMBER OF UNITS, I MEAN, WE CLEARLY LOOKED AT THE ENGINEERING, UM, AND WE THINK WE CAN DO IT.
WE THINK WE CAN FIT THEM AND MEET THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, MEET THE STORM WATER REQUIREMENTS, AND, YOU KNOW, MEET THE CHURCH'S NEEDS AS WELL.
BUT THERE'S ALSO THE ECONOMIC REALITIES OF OPERATING A DEVELOPMENT, UM, AND THE AMOUNT OF RESOURCES THAT WE AS A DEVELOPER ARE ABLE TO AGGREGATE.
AND THE SWEET SPOT FOR DEVELOPMENTS LIKE THIS IN PENNSYLVANIA RIGHT NOW IS IN THAT RANGE, IS IN LIKE A 42 TO 48 UNIT.
WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GO A LITTLE BIT LOWER, BUT IF WE GO TOO MUCH LOWER, IT'S, THERE ARE ENOUGH SORT OF FIXED COSTS OF OPERATING THAT IT JUST DOESN'T PENCIL OUT ANYMORE.
SO THAT, THAT'S SORT OF WHAT DEFINED THAT, THAT UNIT COUNT KIND OF SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HEAR FROM OTHER DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS.
YEAH, IT COMES DOWN ECONOMICS AT SOME POINT.
UM, I GUESS THE OTHER, AGAIN, NOT SO MUCH A QUESTION, BUT AN OBSERVATION.
I MEAN THE, THE, THE NEW BUILDING'S AWFULLY CLOSE TO THE CHURCH AT ONE POINT.
IT, IT IS INTERESTING THAT YOU SAID YOU ORIGINALLY LOOKED AT MOVING IT FURTHER AWAY.
I MEAN, I KNOW, YOU KNOW, AS YOU GET INTO CODE, IF THIS THING GOES FORWARD, THERE'LL BE, THERE'S CODE ISSUES.
I'M THINKING FIRE SEPARATION, WHICH IS SOMETHING BOB ALWAYS BRINGS UP.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, UH, THAT'S MORE OF A TECHNICAL THING.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THAT, THAT'S FINE.
WE WANNA ACTUALLY LOOK TO CONNECT IT TO THE CHURCH IN SOME FASHION THAT THERE'S A BREEZE WAVE OR PASSAGE IN BETWEEN THE TWO.
BECAUSE IF WE ARE USING THE OFFICE SPACE IN THE CHURCH AND WE ARE USING THE COMMUNITY CENTER IN THE CHURCH, IT'D BE NICE TO HAVE THE PASSAGE, COVER PASSAGE.
WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THAT CONNECTION? I MEAN, YOU HAVE A FEW PEOPLE GONNA GO IN THE CHURCH.
DOES EVERYBODY HAVE ACCESS TO THE CHURCH THAT'S GONNA LIVE HERE? I CAN TAKE THAT.
UM, SO WE'RE, WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT THIS AS A PARTNERSHIP.
AND SO THERE WILL BE AREAS OF OUR BUILDING THAT WILL BE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL OF THOSE LIVING IN THE COMMUNITY THERE.
UM, WHILE OTHER PARTS WILL BE SECTIONED OFF JUST FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, CHURCH SO THAT WE CAN PROTECT OUR OFFICES AND, AND THAT, BUT THE IDEA IS THAT THIS IS, WILL BE A COMMUNITY SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO AND, UM, USE OUR GYM FACILITIES AND MEET TOGETHER.
UM, AND SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS BEING, BEING CLOSE AND HAVING THAT CONNECTION.
SO IT REALLY IS THAT COMMON SPIEL OF A COMMUNITY.
AND I WOULD JUST ADD TO THAT, WE, WHEN WE WERE THINKING ABOUT HOW TO LAY IT OUT, OUR THINKING OF WHY TO PUT IT CLOSE IS REALLY TO TRY TO MINIMIZE THE IMPACT ON SURROUNDING PROPERTIES AND TO ENABLE THAT CONNECTION WHERE WE WOULD BE USING SOME OF THE SPACE IN THE CHURCH FOR OUR COMMUNITY ROOM IN OUR OFFICES.
I STILL, I STILL DON'T GET THAT.
UH, ARE THESE PEOPLE GONNA HAVE ACCESS TO THIS SPACE ANYTIME THEY WANT TO USE IT? WELL, IS IT LIKE A, A, YOU KNOW, SO LIKE A, A GYM AT THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A SWIPE CARD TOO THAT YOU CAN GET IN FROM PEOPLE HAVE THAT PEOPLE WILL HAVE AT SOME, WE DON'T KNOW THE EXACT PEOPLE WOULD ACCESS ANYTIME THEY WANNA USE IT.
AND I MEAN, THERE ARE TIMES THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO SHUT OFF ACCESS, YOU KNOW, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.
BUT, BUT, AND I, I COULD ALSO SEE THAT WE WOULD HAVE SOME OF THAT, SOME.
SO RIGHT NOW IN THE BACK OF THE CHURCH, THERE IS A ROOM THAT IS COINCIDENTALLY THE SIZE OF A ROOM THAT WE WOULD NORMALLY HAVE IS OUR COMMUNITY ROOM.
SO WE COULD HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH THE CHURCH, AND TO BE HONEST, WE HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT DETAILS YET.
WE COULD CREATE A CONDOMINIUM WHERE A LITTLE PIECE OF THE CHURCH BECAME PART OF THE PROJECT, OR WE COULD LEASE OVER A LONG TERM THAT PIECE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'LL NEED TO THAT PIECE OF IT AND WE'LL NEED TO HAVE AN OFFICER TWO AND PUBLIC RESTROOMS AS WELL.
SO WE NEED TO SORT OUT EXACTLY LEGALLY HOW THAT WORKS.
AND WE'RE OPEN FOR INPUT ABOUT THAT AS WELL.
UM, BUT WE'RE OPTIMISTS, WE DON'T ALWAYS HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE MORE SHARING THAN JUST WHAT WE NEED.
AND SO WE'RE SORT OF EXCITED ABOUT HAVING THOSE AMENITIES.
BUT IF YOU'RE ASKING LIKE, WILL RESIDENTS OF THE BUILDING BE ABLE TO SORT OF LIKE WALK THROUGH THE CHURCH BUILDING ALL THE TIME, THE ANSWER IS NO.
LIKE WE NEED TO SORT OF FIGURE OUT EXACTLY HOW WE MEMORIALIZE THAT AGREEMENT.
[00:45:01]
TRYING TO, WE'RE COMING TO THIS TOGETHER, UM, AND WE'RE TRYING TO BOTH REINFORCE THOSE CONNECTIONS AND MINIMIZE THE IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING AREAS.IS, IS THIS NEW? IS THERE A, HAS THIS MODEL BEEN DONE SOMEWHERE? YES.
WHERE, WHERE WAS THAT? UM, A WHOLE BUNCH OF PLACES.
UM, THE, THE ONE THAT COMES TO MIND, FIRST OF ALL IS ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA.
UM, I KNOW THAT THERE ARE MORE, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO SHARE THAT INFORMATION IS OUT HERE.
ANYTHING IN THE AREA THAT WE COULD LOOK AT? THEY'RE IN PROCESSES.
WHAT? YOU KNOW, WHERE? UM, THERE'S ONE IN PHILADELPHIA.
I'M, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT SOMETHING WE COULD SEE? ARE THEY THAT
YEAH, I'D BE HAPPY TO, UM, AFTER THIS MEETING, FIND SOME OF THOSE.
UM, I BRING TODAY, I, I'D BE, I'D LIKE TO SEE, SEE HOW IT WORKS.
AND YOU COULD SUBMIT THAT TO JEFF.
THE OWNERSHIP OF THE APARTMENTS BE A SEPARATE LEGAL ENTITY FROM THE CHURCH.
AND SO THE AGREE, SO WOULD, FROM THE STANDPOINT OF A TENANT, WOULD THE CHURCH BE LIKE THE EQUIVALENT OF AN AMENITY TO THEM? LIKE THE SAME WAY THAT YOU WOULD HAVE A, A POOL OR A PICKLEBALL BOARD OR NOW A CHURCH OR IS IT LIKE A, OR I THINK I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT.
THAT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT A TERRIBLE ANALOGY.
NO, BUT THERE'S, IT IS THERE TO USE IN SOME YET NOT YET DEFINED WAY.
AND SOME, AND SOME OF IT IS WE WILL HAVE TO DEFINE BECAUSE WE NEED IT.
I HAVE TO, I HAVE TO HAVE A COMMUNITY ROOM.
I HAVE TO HAVE A MANAGEMENT OFFICE.
PUBLIC MEANING PUBLIC FOR THE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE IN THE COMMON AREAS OF THE BUILDING.
AND PROBABLY ONE OTHER OFFICE SPACE IN ADDITION TO THAT.
SO WE WILL HAVE SOME TYPE OF AN AGREEMENT FOR THOSE SPACES.
AND THEN THERE MIGHT BE OTHER SPACES LIKE THE GYMNASIUM THAT 10, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTS WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO USE THAT.
I, I THINK THAT JOE'S QUESTION IS A GOOD ONE.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE OWNERSHIP ASPECT OF THIS THING.
I, I NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT MORE.
I THINK WE ALL NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHO OWNS THIS THING.
AND YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU DON'T LIKE EACH OTHER ANYMORE? I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THAT.
THAT HAPPENS IN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOUR CHURCH, YOU'RE LOOKING OUT YOUR BACK DOOR AND 20 FEET AWAY YOU'VE GOT THIS HUGE BUILDING.
I MEAN, HOW DOES THIS WORK? YEAH.
WELL TO THAT, TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, WE, WE'VE SPENT THE LAST THREE YEARS LOOKING AT THIS AND WE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, I'M GONNA ADDRESS MY, MY CHURCH PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THERE'S GONNA BE A BUILDING OUTSIDE THE DOOR.
WE'VE, WE'VE SORT OF ROLEPLAYED THAT AND TALKED ABOUT IT A BIT.
AND THAT'S, WE KNOW THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SIGNING ONTO.
WILL THERE BE DAYS THAT WE THINK, OH MAN, THERE'S A BUILDING RIGHT THERE.
BUT I LOOK AT MY HOUSE AND THERE'S A NEIGHBOR RIGHT THERE.
UM, I DON'T SEE THIS AS ANY DIFFERENT.
YOU COULD MOVE, RIGHT? MOVING'S HARD.
MOVING A CHURCH IS GONNA BE REAL HARD.
I GUESS IT'S, FOR ME, IT'S, I'M TRYING TO ASK A QUESTION ABOUT, UM, WHAT I UNDERSTAND HOW THE CHURCH WOULD BENEFIT FROM ITS LAND BEING DEVELOPED IN A CERTAIN WAY AND THERE'S A FINANCIAL GAIN THERE THAT WOULD HELP ANY INSTITUTION THAT, THAT, WELL WHAT DO YOU GET OUT OF THE CONNECTING PART? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT AS OPPOSED TO HELPING HAVING IT BE SEPARATE? AND I'M NOT BEING FACETIOUS.
I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT.
NO, I, I'M, I, BECAUSE THAT'S THE CORE OF WHO WE ARE AS A CHURCH.
YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T WANNA GET TOO, UH, SCHMALTZY HERE, BUT THAT REALLY IS, IS WHAT WE DO.
UM, SO MUCH OF WHAT WHY WE EXIST IS NOT FOR OUR OWN PLEASURE OR ANYTHING.
UM, CURRENTLY OUR BUILDING, UM, WE HAVE MANY GROUPS THAT USE IT, SOMETIMES FAR OFTEN THAN SOME OF OUR CHURCH MEMBERS.
UM, WE HAVE NONPROFIT TENANTS WHO USE THAT SPACE.
WE ARE VERY MUCH ABOUT BUILDING COMMUNITY FOR PEOPLE, UM, PLACES FOR PEOPLE TO CONNECT AND TO, UM, GET TO KNOW OUR NEIGHBORS.
ESPECIALLY IN THIS DAY AND AGE WHERE WE ARE SO SILOED ALL THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
THIS WOULD BE A PLACE WHERE WE LOOK EACH OTHER IN THE EYE AND WE SHARE MEALS TOGETHER AND WE DO THAT.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE LOVE TO DO.
SO, SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE GONNA BE A LANDLORD PER SE? NO, NO, THEY ARE.
SO JUST TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE LEGAL STRUCTURE.
SO THE WAY, WHAT WE'RE THINKING OF, AND WE WOULD HAVE TO FIGURE THIS ALL OUT, UM, YOU KNOW, NICK TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE COMPLICATIONS OF SUBDIVIDING AND I THINK YOU HAD SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THAT AS WELL.
UM, ONE WAY TO DO IT WOULD BE PERHAPS VIA LAND CONDOMINIUM.
THAT'S WHAT I'VE SEEN IN OTHER PLACES WHERE THE LOT STAYS AS ONE LOT WE WOULD OWN.
SO MISSION FIRST FOR ALL OF OUR PROJECTS AND ANY OF OUR PEER ORGANIZATIONS HAVE TO CREATE A SINGLE PURPOSE ENTITY THAT'S USUALLY A LIMITED LIABILITY CORPORATION.
AND THEN WE HAVE AN INVESTOR THAT COMES, THEY HAVE LOW INCOME HOUSING TAX CREDITS THAT THEY GET
[00:50:01]
THROUGH THE STATE AND USE THAT TO RAISE EQUITY.SO THERE WOULD BE A SPECIAL PURPOSE ENTITY, LLC THAT WOULD OWN THAT LAND CONDOMINIUM.
AND THERE WOULD BE AN OWNERSHIP STRUCTURE THAT, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW IS THE CHURCH WOULD NOT BE PART OF THAT STRUCTURE.
WE WOULD BUY THAT PARCEL, THAT PORTION OF LAND FROM THEM.
WE WOULD THEN START, IT'S A TAXABLE ENTITY.
SO WE WOULD START PAYING TAXES.
EVEN THOUGH WE ARE A NONPROFIT, THE ENTITY THAT OWNS THE PROJECT WOULD HAVE TO BE TAXABLE BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF OUR FINANCING.
UM, SOMETIMES WE DO PARTNER, SO SOMETIMES WE WOULD HAVE THE CHURCH AS A PARTNER IN THAT ENTITY.
AND IN THIS CASE, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PURCHASING.
DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE ENTITY SET UP IS, THE COUNTY IS GOING TO SPLIT THE USE AND TAX THE PART THAT MAKES MONEY, RIGHT? THAT'S RIGHT.
WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE THAT FACTORED INTO OUR BUDGET.
SO, UM, BUT THAT'S SORT OF, JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE, THERE WOULD BE AN ENTITY THAT WOULD CREATE IT, THAT WOULD BE CREATED, THAT WOULD ONLY OWN THE PROJECT.
THAT WOULD, IS THERE AN OUT IN THIS, IN THIS CONTRACT THAT YOU'RE GONNA SIGN OR THIS AGREEMENT? IS THERE AN OUT FOR ANYBODY? I STILL, I STILL, YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT YOUR, I DON'T KNOW WHO MANY OF YOUR CHURCH MEMBERS ARE OUT THERE, BUT I LOOK AT 'EM, THEY'RE IN MY AGE GROUP.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE AROUND, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE DOING THIS TODAY.
YOU MIGHT BE MOVED TO ANOTHER CHURCH.
WHAT HAPPENS? I MEAN, WHO, WHO, WHO TAKES CONTROL IF THIS THING GOES SOUTH? YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE MOVE IN, THEY'RE NICE PEOPLE, BUT THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T LIKE THE CARS THEY HAVE OR YOU DON'T LIKE HOW MANY KIDS YOU RUNNING, WHATEVER.
AND, AND YOU GOT ALL NEW CHURCH PEOPLE WHO, WHO, WHO TAKES CONTROL OF THIS THING AT THAT POINT? THE, I MEAN, I, I DON'T WANNA SOUND NAIVE OR, OR POLLYANNISH, BUT I REALLY DON'T ENVISION THAT HAPPENING BECAUSE THAT'S JUST NOT HOW WE AS A COMMUNITY, AS A FAITH COMMUNITY OPERATE.
UM, BUT, UH, THEY WILL HAVE THEIR OWN LAND, UH, AT THAT POINT.
AND WE WILL HAVE OUR OWN LAND.
SO AKIN TO HOW IF YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR NEIGHBOR, YOU EITHER DEAL WITH IT OR, OR DON'T.
AND I, I UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I BELONG TO A CHURCH BY, THEY, WE SAY THE SAME THING.
YEAH, WE'RE WELCOMING, BUT LET'S BE HONEST, THERE'S, THE COURTS ARE FULL OF PEOPLE THAT WENT INTO THAT THINKING THAT SAME THING, AND NOW THEY'RE FIGHTING OVER WHATEVER.
I JUST DON'T SEE WHO CONTROLS THIS THING.
IT, IT SEEMS REAL VAGUE, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THE TOWNSHIP'S CONCERNED.
YOU KNOW, WHO, WHO DO WE GO TO WHEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM? WHO DO, WHO WE, WHO DO WE ARGUE WITH? WE WOULD FOR THE HOUSING.
YOU COME TO US, YOU WOULD COME TO US.
I DON'T, I'M NOT GETTING WARM AND FUZZY ABOUT IT.
NICOLE, YOU READY YET? I GOT SOME OTHER QUESTIONS.
IF YOU'RE NOT, I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
I HAVE, I MEAN, I'VE DONE SOME RESEARCH TO UNDERSTAND WHAT CHURCHES ARE GOING THROUGH AT THIS POINT.
READ A COUPLE BOOKS AND TALKED TO QUITE A FEW PEOPLE.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT BRINGING THESE PARTNERSHIPS IN IS A WAY TO KEEP CHURCHES ALIVE IN A LOT OF SITUATIONS.
UM, I KNOW PEOPLE PROBABLY HAVE FEELINGS ABOUT THAT, BUT IT'S TRUE.
AND THE FACT THAT YOU GUYS CAN FIND A WAY TO PARTNER IS PRETTY SPECIAL.
HOW DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE THESE, UH, RATES THAT YOU HOPING TO CHARGE? MM-HMM.
IF I'M A A GUY, MAYBE I MAKE SIX FIGURES, BUT I LIKE THAT NUMBER.
I DON'T WANT PAY MORE THAN I HAVE TO.
I'M, YOU KNOW, KNOW I DON'T EVEN WANNA PAY A THOUSAND DOLLARS.
HOW DO YOU KEEP ME UP? SO THERE'S A MAXIMUM INCOME LIMIT BY HOUSEHOLD SIZE.
SO COULD YOU GO TO THE, UM, EXHIBIT NUMBER? I KNOW THAT I GOT THAT YOU SHOWED THAT, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT IS THAT LEGAL? IS THAT IT IS, YEAH.
IT'S, AND THAT'S ONE OF MY QUESTIONS.
WHAT OVERSIGHT DO YOU HAVE? I, CENTURIES AGO I SAID I WORKED FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT IN DELAWARE COUNTY.
WE HAD REPORTS THAT WE HAD TO WRITE AND INSPECTIONS WE HAD TO DO, AND INCOME THAT WE HAD TO ASSURE THAT ALL OF OUR PROPERTIES FOR THE HOUSING DEPARTMENT IN DELAWARE COUNTY WAS, WERE FOLLOWING.
WHO'S THAT OVERSIGHT FOR YOU? SO THE OVERSIGHT FOR US WOULD BE, UM, TWO ENTITIES WOULD BE THE PENNSYLVANIA HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY, WHICH IS THE STATE AGENCY THAT ALLOCATES LOW INCOME FEDERAL LOAN INCOME, HOUSING TAX CREDITS TO DEVELOPERS LIKE US, UM, THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY, I THINK IT'S WHAT THEY CALL THEMSELVES, THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.
WE WILL GET SOME TYPE OF MONEY FROM THEM.
IT MIGHT BE HOME MONEY, IT MIGHT BE COUNTY HOUSING TRUST FUND MONEY.
AND WE ARE BIG MONITOR AS WELL.
SO WE HAVE TO SUBMIT ANNUAL REPORTS TO FOLKS TO CONFIRM HOW IS THAT NOT DISCRIMINATORY? IF I WANT TO RENT INTO THAT APARTMENT, I'VE GOT THE FUNDS, I GO WHATEVER I NEED TO HAVE TO MEET YOUR REQUIREMENT.
HOW COME I CAN'T MOVE IN THERE? YOU CAN TELL ME NOBODY MAKES TOO MUCH MONEY.
I MEAN, IF IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND, YOU'D BE SUED, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO HOW, HOW DO YOU GET AROUND THAT DISCRIMINATORY THAT I WANNA MOVE INTO THAT WORK? UM, I DON'T, I MEAN, IT IS UNDER, IT'S A FEDERAL PROGRAM THAT'S ADMINISTERED BY THE STATE HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY AND OTHER FEDERAL FUNDS THAT FLOW THROUGH, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE COUNTY TO DEVELOPMENTS LIKE THIS.
THERE IS LAW THAT ALLOWS FOR THE
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CREATION OF HOUSING THAT LIMITS THE INCOMES OF RESIDENTS THAT LIVES THERE, THAT LIVE THERE.I PLAY A LAWYER ON TV, SO
THERE'S A WHOLE WORLD OF US OUT THERE TOO, TOO.
THIS CRAZY, THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.
THE PENNSYLVANIA MUNICIPALITY'S PLANNING CODE PROHIBITS, IT SAYS YOU CANNOT REQUIRE A DEVELOPER TO INCLUDE LOW INCOME OR INCOME BASED HOUSING.
IT DOESN'T SAY THAT NOBODY CAN LIMIT IT.
SO THEY'RE COMING IN UNDER A FEDERAL PROGRAM THAT IS COMPLIANT WITH THE NPC ONLY BECAUSE THE MPC DOESN'T DISALLOW.
BUT HAS THAT EVER BEEN CHALLENGED YET? DO YOU KNOW? I DON'T KNOW.
THAT'S ONE THAT, THAT'S JUST, UH, UM, THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE, AND I THINK JERRY AND BOB BOTH DRESSED ON IT, I MEAN, IT DOES LOOK CRAMMED IN THERE.
I ASSUME THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE THINKING ARE GONNA MOVE IN.
THEY'RE GONNA HAVE KIDS, SOME OF THEM, SOME, YEAH.
DEPENDING ON THE FINAL UNIT MIX.
WE HEARD THE SAME THING AT PARKHOUSE.
YOU KNOW, THIS THING OF OH, 1.2 KIDS PER HALF, COME ON, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE KIDS.
THESE PEOPLE ARE GONNA HAVE SOME KIDS.
WHERE ARE THEY PLAYING THEM? WHERE, WHERE'S THE, WHERE'S THE USE OF KIDS? WHERE DO THEY WRITE, WHERE DO THEY PLAY BALL? YEAH, I THINK, I THINK, WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF OPEN SPACE AT THE SPRING FORD SCHOOL FACILITY, WHAT'S THE WORD? THE, UM, CAMPUS.
UM, SO YOU LET SIX YEAR OLDS, FIVE YEAR OLDS GO OVER THERE AND PLAY IN THE SCHOOL BY THEMSELVES A MILE AWAY, UP BY THEMSELVES.
THEY CAN'T PLAY IN THEIR YARD.
THERE IS ROOM IN THE YARD AND THERE IS, IN BRUCE'S DESIGN, THERE IS A, A, A TOP LOT AREA.
I MEAN, I HAVE A VERY SMALL BACKYARD, SO I TAKE MY KIDS TO THE PARK.
UM, AND TO THE EXTENT AND THE EXTENT THAT WE CAN ACCOMMODATE BOTH THE STORM WATER AND OPEN GREEN SPACE, THAT'S, THERE WOULD BE SPACE BACK THERE TOO.
I MEAN, WE ARE OPEN TO, YES, WE OF COURSE WE WOULD LIKE TO BOTH.
I MEAN, MAYBE YOU COULD SIT BACK, WELL, I CAN'T PLAY BALL.
I CAN'T PLAY BALL IN MY AREA FOOTBALL, OR YOU'RE NOT GONNA PLAY BASEBALL BACK.
MY OTHER QUESTION, UM, THIS NICK, MAYBE THE SCHOOL LANE THING, YOU'RE JUST, YOU'RE PROPOSING RIGHT NOW THAT'S JUST AN EMERGENCY, BUT YOU'RE NOT SURE YET? I'M NOT SURE.
WE, WE'VE SHOWN, WE'VE SHOWN AS AN ACCESS.
I'D BE INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT ANTHONY THINKS OF THAT COMING OUT WHEN HE DOES THE, THE STUDY AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THOSE CARS COMING OUT ON SCHOOL LANE'S.
I WANTED TO DRIVE BACK THERE AND SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON.
AND THEN YOUR DRIVEWAY THAT IS CURRENTLY, CURRENTLY DRIVEWAY TO GET THE BACK.
THE OTHER, IT'S NOT VERY WIDE.
WHAT WERE YOU PROPOSING THERE IN THE BACK? NO, YOUR DRIVEWAY FROM LEWIS ROAD BACK TO THE BACK.
WE'RE GONNA, WE WOULD HAVE TO EVALUATE SINCE WE ARE IN TRIPS, NICK, YOU KNOW HOW THIS PLAYS
UH, NOW, YEAH, WE, WE HAVEN'T ENGAGED A TRAFFIC ENGINEER YET, BUT AT THAT POINT WE WILL HAVE TO, UH, GET WITH PENDOT, WE WILL HAVE TO BRING THE DRIVEWAY UP TO WHATEVER, UH, REQUIREMENTS A, THE TOWNSHIP AND OR PENDO WILL REQUIRE FOR THAT.
I, I, I THINK FIRE MARSH IS DOING A QUESTION FIRE.
AND, AND WE AGAIN, YOU KNOW, AS, AS A CONCEPT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO.
THAT ANSWER THAT, UM, I, OKAY, WELL, AND THEN I HAVE ONE COMMENT AND THEN WE'LL OPEN IT TO THE PUBLIC.
I GUESS THIS QUESTION WOULD BE MORE FOR BRUCE.
HOW HIGH IS, MAYBE YOU SAID IT, HOW, HOW MANY STORIES IS IT, BRUCE? IT'S, IT'S, UH, THREE STORIES AT HEIGHT.
I, I'D HAVE TO DOUBLE CHECK THOUGH.
I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S A HIGH LIMIT, BUT WE ARE THREE STORIES.
I THINK THE LIMIT GOES, I WANTED MAKE SURE IT WASN'T FIVE OR SIX OR SOMETHING.
I THINK THE, UH, THE HEIGHT LIMIT WAS TO THE MIDPOINT OF THE ROOF.
I JUST WANNA MAKE ONE LAST COMMENT.
IT'S NOT, TAKE IT HOWEVER YOU WANT TO TAKE IT, BUT I THINK REVEREND YOU'VE MENTIONED THE COUNTY IS PUSHING THIS OR THEY LIKE THE IDEA PERSONALLY, MYSELF, I LIVE IN, I WHAT DO I CARE WHAT THE COUNTY THINKS? I MEAN, WE HAD A BIG PROBLEM.
I THINK YOU GUYS ARE AWARE OF PARK HOUSE BECAUSE THE COUNTY SCREWED THAT WHOLE THING UP.
AND THEY LEFT IT US TO FIX IT.
AND WE HAD A LOT OF P****D OFF PEOPLE.
EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE, BECAUSE IT WASN'T DONE RIGHT.
AND I PERSONALLY DON'T CARE THAT THE COUNTY WANTS THIS OR THINKS IT'S GOOD.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GOOD OR NOT.
I THINK, I DON'T THINK THE COUNTY HAS ANY, ANY BEARING ON WHAT I'M GOING TO VOTE OR DECIDE WHEN WE GET THERE.
'CAUSE I, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING GOOD FROM THE COUNTY.
YOU KNOW, OUR GOVERNOR, YOU KNOW, HE LEFT US WITH A REAL MESS IN, IN THIS STATUTE.
THANK YOU FOR WHAT IT, FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.
WHO WANTS TO BE JONES FOR? I JUST WANNA GIVE THE APPLICANT THE LETTERS THAT I HANDED OUT
[01:00:01]
TO YOU.I RECEIVED AN EMAIL FROM, UH, ALYSSA AND CARPENTER, OR CHRISTOPHER LEN AT SECOND SCHOOL LANE.
I'VE DISTRIBUTED IT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
YOU OBVIOUSLY CAN GET A COPY OF IT.
IT'S A LETTER WITH THEIR OPINION ON IT, RATHER LENGTHY.
IF SOMEONE WANTS TO READ IT, I CAN GIVE YOU, I CAN GIVE THE AUDIENCE A COPY OF IT.
SO, WHO'S FIRST? JUST IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND WHERE YOU LIVE.
I, WHEN YOU GET UP HERE, CAN YOU GET UP HERE? HEY, UH, MY NAME'S JOHN RICHIE.
I ALSO OWN AN EIGHT SCHOOL LANE, TWO OF THE PROPERTIES, UH, ADJACENT TO THE CHURCH'S PROPERTY.
AND SO I JUST HAD A FEW COMMENTS AND JUST, I WANTED TO STEP BACK.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL SORT OF LEARNING ABOUT THIS THING, BUT I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT I THINK OF THE VISION, RIGHT? I MEAN, IF I STOOD BACK AND I CAME BEFORE YOU AND SAID, I'VE GOT FOUR AND A HALF ACRES AND I'M GONNA PUT 48 HOUSING UNITS ON THERE, 174 PARKING SPACES AND A 22,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING ON THERE.
I THINK THAT SOUNDS A LITTLE CRAMMED IN, BUT LIKE YOU GUYS SAID, AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I I, I THINK JUST MY COMMENTARY IS ABOUT THE, UM, AND I GUESS THE PLANNING AND THE VISION, RIGHT? YOU TALKED ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE COUNTY NOT HAVING GREAT IDEAS, BUT THERE, THERE IS THAT SORT OF VISION WHERE YOU HAVE THESE SORT OF HIGH DENSITY HOUSING UNITS.
THIS WOULD BE, I THINK, THE HIGHEST OR MOST DENSELY POPULATED PARCEL IN THE TOWNSHIP.
RIGHT? AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT SORT OF VISION, THAT 2040 MONTGOMERY COUNTY VISION OR OUR SHARED VISION HERE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THOSE HIGH DENSITY UNITS, RIGHT? I'M THINKING ABOUT WALKABILITY ACCESS TO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S A BUS LINE WITHIN A MILE AND A HALF OF THIS PARCEL.
IT WOULD ALL BE DONE, UM, THROUGH CARS.
YOU KNOW, SCHOOLING IS VERY SMALL.
I ALSO HAVE, I, I RENT TO A FAMILY POLICE OFFICER AND AN EMT THAT ARE ABLE TO AFFORD TO LIVE IN THERE.
BUT, UM, IT'S A VERY TIGHT COMMUNITY.
SO, UH, YOU KNOW, I SORT OF AM WORRIED ABOUT IN THE MORNING, 140 EXTRA CARS COMING IN AND OUT OF THAT SCHOOLING.
SO MY QUESTION, I THINK IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO CONSIDER.
SO, YOU KNOW, HOW THIS FITS INTO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ABOUT HOW YOU DESIGN THIS PLACE.
I, I THINK THIS, I LOVE THIS TOWNSHIP.
I THINK IT'S THE GEM OF THE COUNTY, RIGHT? AND THAT'S 'CAUSE OF GOOD PLANNING.
I JUST DON'T THINK THIS IS, UM, GOOD PLANNING.
I, I THINK I'LL KEEP IT POSITIVE.
SO I'LL JUST WRAP UP THERE AND GIVE MY MINUTES TO SOMEBODY ELSE.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ALL TRYING TO LEARN HERE TONIGHT, EXACTLY.
HOW THIS FITS INTO WHAT WE'RE DOING.
'CAUSE WE ARE, IF YOU NOTICE ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT, WE'RE RIGHT NOW IN THE PROCESS OF UPDATING OUR LONG TERM PLANNING AND, YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THIS FIT? AND WE DON'T.
WELL, AND I HAVE NEW QUESTIONS THAT I DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE ABOUT IF THERE'S A TAXABLE ENTITY AND THIS NOW THERE'S SHARED AMENITIES FROM CHURCH, HOW THAT WORKS, OR, I MEAN, THAT'S SORT OF, I DON'T, A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
I LIVE AT FOUR FOUR SCHOOL LANE.
SO I'M ALSO ADJACENT TO THE PROPERTY THAT BELONGS TO THE CHURCH.
SO I JUST WANNA SAY THAT MY HUSBAND AND I MOVED TO THIS AREA EIGHT YEARS AGO.
WE LOVE LIVING IN THE TOWNSHIP.
WE LOVE THE BALANCE OF OPEN SPACE, THE COMMUNITY FEEL.
WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT, UNDERSTAND IT'S PART OF A HEALTHY COMMUNITY AND THERE'S A PLACE FOR CERTAIN DEVELOPMENT.
BUT I DEFINITELY HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS ABOUT THE SUSTAINABILITY OF THIS.
UM, I DO FEEL LIKE IT IS A HIGH DENSITY STRUCTURE THAT IS BEING SHOEHORNED INTO A PLACE THAT IT REALLY JUST DOESN'T FIT.
UM, I THINK THERE PROBABLY IS A PLACE FOR IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S HERE.
I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THAT THE DRAINAGE ISSUES THAT WE ALREADY HAVE ARE GOING TO BE IMPROVED BY ADDING IMPERVIOUS SERVICES.
I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THAT THE TRAFFIC ISSUES ARE GONNA BE MANAGEABLE.
UM, THE LOSS OF PRIVACY, THE LOSS OF OPEN SPACE, THE NOISE POLLUTION.
LIKE YOU SAID, YOU DROVE DOWN, YOU SCOPED IT OUT.
THERE'S USUALLY A LOT OF CARS PARKED ON IT.
CHILDREN PLAYING THE ACCESS ROAD THAT THEY'RE SUGGESTING, UM, IS RIGHT ON THE WAY TO THE BUS STOP.
UM, ALL OF THESE THINGS MAKE ME FEEL REALLY STRONGLY.
THIS JUST IS NOT, IT'S JUST NOT THE RIGHT PLACE FOR IT.
SO WE'RE DEFINITELY AGAINST IT.
I DON'T FEEL LIKE THUS FAR WE'VE BEEN REALLY INVOLVED IN, UM, WITH THE CHURCH.
WHEN YOU GUYS WERE TALKING, YOU KNOW, I GOT THE FEELING THAT THEY HAD, UM, A SENSE OF, LET'S, LET'S HAVE THE COMMUNITY SUPPORT.
LET'S HAVE THIS BE PART OF SOMETHING WE'RE WORKING ON TOGETHER.
I FEEL LIKE THIS IS BEING THRUST UPON ME.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME PLACE, THAT WE DON'T WANT THIS TOWNSHIP TO TURN INTO KING OF PR.
[01:05:01]
REALLY BOILS DOWN TO MAKING RESPONSIBLE CHOICES.I KNOW THAT MORE THAN ONE OF THE TOWNSHIP SUPERVISORS CAMPAIGNED ON THE PRESERVATION OF OPEN SPACE AND NATURAL SPACE AND ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY.
THIS IS SUCH A PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO STAND BY THAT, BECAUSE WHEN YOU REALLY BREAK IT DOWN AND LOOK AT THE PROS AND CONS, THE CONS THAT THIS COULD BRING AND THE PROBLEMS THAT THIS WILL LIKELY LEAD TO, IN MY OPINION, JUST REALLY FAR OUTWEIGH WHAT IT HAS TO OFFER.
SO I FEEL LIKE WHILE OTHER DECISIONS MIGHT BE A LITTLE TRICKIER, THIS ONE TO ME WHERE I'M STANDING FEELS PRETTY CLEAR.
I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS JUST TO COMMENT ON WHAT YOU SAID.
UM, THE, THE, I I THINK WE, I HOPE ALL OF YOU FOLKS UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE VERY CONCERNED ALSO ABOUT OPEN SPACE AND LEAVING SOME OPEN SPACE.
JEFF WILL TELL YOU THE LAND TO BUILD ON IS BECOMING VERY SCARCE IN THIS TOWN.
OF COURSE, PARKHOUSE, THERE'S NOTHING WE COULD DO.
WE DID THE BEST JOB WE COULD IN CONTROLLING THAT SITUATION.
AND I DEFINITELY APPRECIATE THAT POSITION.
AND I DEFINITELY, I HEAR THAT, THAT THAT CONCERN FOR OPEN SPACE IS SOMETHING THAT I'M HEARING.
AND I AM GLAD TO HEAR THAT BECAUSE IT'S A CONCERN THAT WE REALLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO LOCAL COURT, WE DID THE BEST WE COULD.
WE TOOK JONES' ADVICE, WE TOOK A LOT OF ATTORNEY ADVICE.
THE SUPERVISORS DID A GREAT JOB.
AND I JUST WANT YOU ALL TO UNDERSTAND WE'RE TAKING THAT INTO ACCOUNT.
WE WE'RE TRYING TO LOOK AT ALL THESE AND SAY, DOES THIS MAKE SENSE FOR OUR LONG PLAN GROWTH OF THIS COMMUNITY? A HUNDRED PERCENT.
AND I, AND I FEEL LIKE THAT'S THE BALANCE THAT ALL OF THESE DECISIONS HAVE TO BE MADE WITH, RIGHT? IN TERMS OF THAT, HOW DO WE MAINTAIN THE AESTHETIC OF THIS TOWNSHIP IN A SUSTAINABLE WAY? PLEASE UNDERSTAND, WE'RE TRYING TO DO THAT.
I LIVE AT THREE 30 WEST THIRD STREET IN BRIDGEPORT.
I'M THE CO-FOUNDER OF THE MONTCO 30% PROJECT, WHICH IS AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING ADVOCACY GROUP, WHICH IS WHAT BRINGS ME HERE TONIGHT.
I SUPPORT THIS PROPOSAL FOR 48 UNITS OF WORKFORCE HOUSING IN THE OVERLAY ZONING DISTRICT AS DESCRIBED MISSION FIRST AND ROYERSFORD BAPTIST CHURCH RECOGNIZED THE TREMENDOUS NEED FOR MORE HOUSING STOCK FOR INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES OF MODERATE INCOMES.
THIS PAST WEEKEND, I WAS SHOPPING IN THE TOWN CENTER TO THE BOOKSTORE, PICKING UP A FEW ITEMS AT WEGMANS AND DICK'S SPORTING GOODS.
AND I WONDERED HOW MANY OF THESE SERVICE AND RETAIL WORKERS WOULD BE ABLE TO FIND AN APARTMENT IN UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT DOESN'T CONSUME MORE THAN HALF THEIR INCOME.
NOT EVERYONE IS DESTINED TO OWN A SINGLE FAMILY HOME ON ATTACHED LOT.
IF WE LEARNED ANYTHING ELSE DURING THE PANDEMIC, IT WAS THAT OUR ECONOMY AND OUR COMMUNITIES ARE INTRINSICALLY TIED TO THE LABOR OF THESE WORKERS.
BUT ACROSS MONTGOMERY COUNTY, WE'RE LETTING THEM DOWN.
26% OF MONTCO RESIDENTS ARE ASSET LIMITED, INCOME CONSTRAINED AND EMPLOYED.
ROUGHLY HALF OF RENTERS IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY SPEND MORE THAN 30% OF THEIR INCOME ON HOUSING.
THAT'S ACCORDING TO MONTGOMERY COUNTY AT ARDEN AND PARKSIDE AT THE TOWN CENTER.
A JUNIOR ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT, 600 SQUARE FEET GOES FOR ABOUT 1800 PER MONTH, WHILE A TWO BEDROOM, TWO BATH GOES FOR ABOUT 2,600 TO 3,200.
I BRING THAT UP TO YOU BECAUSE I USED TO WORK AS A TEACHER.
I CAN'T, I COULD NOT AFFORD TO LIVE THERE AS A TEACHER, AS THEY LAY, AS THEY LAID OUT.
SO MANY OF THESE PROFESSIONS THAT ARE VITAL TO OUR ECONOMY AND OUR COMMUNITY.
YOU JUST SIMPLY CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE IN SO MANY SWATHS OF MONTGOMERY COUNTY RIGHT NOW.
I I NOTICED ON THE TOWNSHIP'S IN DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS POSTED ON YOUR WEBSITE, I BELIEVE IT ILLUSTRATES A NEED FOR MORE BALANCE BY ADDING NEW WORKFORCE HOUSING THAT IS AVAILABLE TO THOSE OF MODEST MEANS.
THERE ARE 126 SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOMES CURRENTLY UNDER DEVELOPMENT ACCORDING TO THE LIST.
ANOTHER 82 SINGLE FAMILY TOWN HOMES, 48 CARRIAGE HOMES, NEW YORK STATION, 224 MARKET RATE APARTMENTS.
SO AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE THE NEED THAT OUR COMMUNITY IS STRONGER.
OUR COMMUNITIES IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY ARE BETTER WHEN WE ALL HAVE A SAFE, AFFORDABLE PLACE TO CALL HOME.
I'D LIKE TO THANK THE APPLICANT AND PASTOR SARAH FOR HOLDING TWO TOWN HALLS OR LISTENING SESSIONS TO HEAR FROM THEIR NEIGHBORS.
I HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT THEIR CONCERNS THAT, THAT THE NEIGHBOR'S CONCERNS MAY BE ADDRESSED WITHOUT HOLDING UP THIS IMPORTANT PROPOSAL.
CAN I MAKE A COMMENT? YOUR YES, PLEASE.
UM, WHY SHOULD I BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE
SO DIDN'T THE TOWN SHIFT DO ENOUGH FOR THOSE FOLKS? YOU KNOW, THE LOW INCOME PEOPLE, HEY, WE PROVIDED A JOB FOR YOU BECAUSE WE BUILT THIS BEAUTIFUL TOWN CENTER.
NOW WHY SHOULD I BE, WHY IS THAT MY CONCERN WHERE THEY LIVE? SO, A COUPLE THINGS TO ADDRESS YOUR QUESTION.
I'M IN THE CHRISTIAN PART, I UNDERSTAND THAT.
AND EVERYBODY'S ENTITLED TO FAIR HOUSE.
[01:10:01]
SO A COUPLE THINGS.UM, FIRST THING IS, I REGRET THE PHRASE LOW INCOME.
I USED TO WORK IN THE RETAIL SECTOR.
I MADE BETWEEN 15 AND 20 BUCKS AN HOUR.
I DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE TO COMMUTE 45 MINUTES TO GET TO MY JOB OUT, UH, IN DEVON AT THE TIME I WAS LIVING IN SPRING CITY, AND SOMETIMES THE JOB OPPORTUNITIES OPEN UP SOMEWHERE AND, AND, AND YOU HAVE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.
BUT YOU, YOUR HOUSING, YOUR APARTMENT IS IN A DIFFERENT COMMUNITY.
I THINK THAT THOSE WHO WORK IN THIS GREAT TOWNSHIP, UM, OR IN UPPER PROVIDENCE, EXCUSE ME, OR IN LET'S SAY UPPER MARION OR ON THE MAIN LINE, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DRIVE OR TAKE THE BUS MORE THAN AN HOUR TO GET TO WORK.
RIGHT? I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S A FAIR BARGAIN.
I I DON'T SEE THAT ON, SORRY, I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT ARGUMENT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GIVEN 'EM A NICE PLACE TO WORK.
THEY OBVIOUSLY, THEY WANNA WORK THERE LIKE IT, THEY DO IT.
SO NOW I'VE ALSO GOTTA PROVIDE 'EM A PLACE TO LIVE.
WELL, AS YOU KNOW, ALSO ACCORDING, UM, TO OUR STATEWIDE MPC, I BELIEVE EACH TOWNSHIP IS RESPONSIBLE TO PROVIDE A MIX OF HOUSING.
ESPECIALLY A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE WHEN IT COMES TO MULTI-FAMILY.
SO I WOULD ARGUE THIS PROPOSAL HELPS YOU MEET THAT REQUIREMENT.
AND, AND, AND THAT, AND I AGREE, BUT THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT ARGUMENT.
I COULD SIT HERE AND ARGUE TO YOU ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT TELLING US WHERE WE HAVE TO LET PEOPLE LIVE.
I'M JUST TRYING TO KEEP IT TO THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE.
YOU KNOW, THIS ISSUE, I, I DON'T SEE THAT ARGUMENT SAYING NOW I'VE GOTTA PROVIDE, LIKE YOU SAID, THEY HAVE TO DRIVE A HALF HOUR.
YOU KNOW, I WORKED IN KING OF PRUSSIA WHEN I WORKED, I I DIDN'T LIKE IT.
I HAD TO GRAB THAT, BUT THAT'S WHERE I WERE.
NOBODY WAS SAYING, HEY, COME, I'LL MOVE YOU TO THE KING OF PRUSSIAN.
SO I, I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT ARGUMENT.
I'M JUST NOT SURE I AGREE WITH IT.
ONE FINAL POINT, JUST JUST AS A SIDE NOTE, I HAVE SPOKEN TO FOLKS WHO LIVE IN THE POTSTOWN ENCAMPMENT AND THE NORRISTOWN ENCAMPMENT.
YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE HOW MANY PEOPLE DOWN THERE DO WORK FULL TIME, BUT THEY JUST, BECAUSE THE MARKET IS SO BRUTAL RIGHT NOW, THEY CAN'T FIND AN AFFORDABLE PLACE TO LAY THEIR HEAD AT NIGHT.
FOR ME THAT THAT IS A TRAVESTY.
WHY IS IT UPPER PROVIDENCE CONCERN? WE ALL HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO SOLVE THIS.
I THINK IF I CAN, YOU HAVE THE GAVEL, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT, TO GET EVERYBODY'S COMMENTS AND COMMENTING BACK WELL, AND THEN IS GOING TO, WE MIGHT NOT GET EVERYBODY I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I JUST CAN'T LET THESE GO BY WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THESE ARGUMENTS, LIKE, THAT ARGUMENT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME.
SO I NEED TO I NEED TO COMMENT ON THAT AND I'M NOT, YOU GUYS WANNA COMMENT ON DO YEAH.
I, I THINK, I THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER IT DOES OR DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
DOES THAT SITE ACCOMMODATE? THAT'S THE REAL THAT'S A BIG POINT.
WE'RE BE ANYWHERE YOU GET ALL THE COMMENTS IN, YOU'LL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY.
WE'RE NOT EVEN MORE SUNSHINE ORIENTED NEXT.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S FIGHTING BOTH VERY ADVERSARIAL.
REVEREND REVEREND, I'M, I'M THE PUBLIC NOW.
I LIVE AT TWO 50 NORTH CHARLOTTE STREET IN POTSTOWN, BUT I SPEND MOST OF MY TIME AT 4 52 SOUTH LEWIS ROAD IN UPPER PROVIDENCE.
WE, AS A CONGREGATION, HAVE BEEN WORKING TOWARDS THIS NIGHT FOR THREE YEARS NOW.
WE'VE SPENT THAT TIME EXAMINING OUR OWN VALUES AND COMMITMENT TO THIS COMMUNITY, RESEARCHING THE ASSETS AND DEFICITS OF THIS AREA, AND SPEAKING WITH LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND SERVICE PROVIDERS TO ASSESS THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
WHAT WE HEARD WAS WE NEED HOUSING FOR WORKING FAMILIES.
WE SPENT TIME LISTENING TO OUR NEIGHBORS.
AND WE KNOW THERE ARE UNDERSTANDABLY CONCERNS AS MANY OF YOU HAVE WITH THIS PROPOSED PROJECT, WHICH IS WHY WE'VE ASSEMBLED A TEAM OF EXPERTS WITH PROVEN RECORDS TO HELP US MAKE AS MINIMAL AND IMPACT AS POSSIBLE.
I'VE HEARD MANY PEOPLE SAY THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF THIS, SURE, SURE, WE SUPPORT THIS TYPE OF THING.
PEOPLE NEED A PLACE TO LIVE, BUT NOT IN MY BACKYARD.
BUT WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? WHAT IS OUR BACKYARD? WHEN OUR CHURCH MOVED TO OUR LITTLE CORNER OF UPPER PROVIDENCE IN THE EARLY 1960S, IT WAS PRETTY MUCH JUST A CHURCH THERE AND REST.
AND YET WE KNOW THE LAND WASN'T JUST OURS.
SO FOR THE LAST 60 PLUS YEARS ON THAT PLOT OF LAND, WE'VE DONE ALL WE CAN TO BE GOOD STEWARDS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS OF THE LAND ENTRUSTED TO OUR CARE.
WHEN OTHERS MOVED TO THIS AREA AFTER 1960, RBC WAS ALREADY WELL ESTABLISHED, WE COULD HAVE SAID THAT OUR BACKYARD WAS SHRINKING WITH THESE HOMES ENCROACHING IN THIS SPACE.
BUT I LIKE TO THINK THAT OUR BACKYARD EXPANDED AS MORE PEOPLE BEGAN TO CALL THIS PLACE HOME.
WHEN ONE CHOOSES TO MAKE THEIR HOME IN A PLACE LIKE UPPER PROVIDENCE, THEY'RE CHOOSING TO BE PART OF A COMMUNITY.
THEY'RE MOVING INTO A WELL ESTABLISHED AREA, NOT INTO THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE, PENNSYLVANIA WITHOUT A NEIGHBOR.
YOU COULD SEE FOR MILES IN CHOOSING TO LIVE IN THIS KIND OF PLACE, WE ARE SIGNING ONTO A SOCIAL CONTRACT TO BE MEMBERS OF A COMMUNITY, TO SHED
[01:15:01]
A BIT OF OUR RUGGED INDIVIDUALISM FOR THE SAKE OF THE WHOLE SIMPLY PUT TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR.AS A CHRISTIAN CHURCH, WE FOLLOW THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS WHO SAYS THAT EVERYONE IS OUR NEIGHBOR, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN NEED.
EVERY WEEK, OFTEN MULTIPLE TIMES DURING THE WEEK, PEOPLE FROM THIS COMMUNITY, UPPER PROVIDENCE, COME TO OUR CHURCH BECAUSE THEY NEED HELP PAYING BILLS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR GROCERIES, BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T MAKE LAST MONTH'S RENT, AND NOW THEY'RE ON THE STREETS.
THIS TYPE OF NEED FROM THE COMMUNITY CONTINUES TO GROW IN OUR BACKYARD.
I WOULD LIKE TO SAY NOT IN MY BACKYARD TO INCREASE HUNGER AND INCREASED EVICTIONS.
I WOULD LIKE TO SAY NOT IN MY BACKYARD TO CHILDREN FORCED AWAY FROM THEIR SCHOOL SYSTEM BECAUSE RENT INCREASED AND MOM AND DAD CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE HERE ANYMORE.
I WOULD LIKE TO SAY NOT IN MY BACKYARD, TO ONE MORE PERSON FORCED TO CHOOSE BETWEEN BUYING GROCERIES AND PAYING RENT THIS MONTH.
SO TO THAT, WE AT RBC SAY YES IN OUR BACKYARD, YES, IN GOD'S BACKYARD TO A PROJECT THAT WILL BRING STABILITY AND HOPE NOT TO MENTION WORKERS AND TAXPAYERS TO OUR AREA.
SO I THANK YOU FOR BEING A CRITICAL COMPONENT OF THIS COMMUNITY AND OF OUR BACKYARD IN DEFERENCE TO JOE, WHO I HAVE SO MUCH RESPECT FOR.
I'M NOT GONNA COMMENT ON THAT.
I LIVE AT 24 SCHOOL SITE COURT.
UH, WE ALSO ARE ADJACENT TO THE JUDGE AND REVEREND SARAH JOHN KNIGHT THIS WEEK.
IT'S OUR 31ST YEAR IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE BELIEVE IN THE MISSION THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
UM, YOU ARE PART OF MIKE, I'M SORRY YOU'RE PART OF OUR COMMUNITY, MIKE.
YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M YOU'RE PART OF OUR COMMUNITY.
WE, YOU KNOW, BUT I DO HAVE TO SAY THOUGH, AND WE BELIEVE IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
HOWEVER, BY AGREEING TO THIS, YOU ARE MAKING, IF EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT CORNER WHERE WE ARE AT VAUGHN AND SCHOOL LANE SCHOOL PSYCH COURT, YOU'RE MAKING THIS THE MOST DENSELY POPULATED AREA IN OUR TOWNSHIP.
UM, THE TRAFFIC CONGESTION IN THAT AREA IS, UH, OF A LOT OF CONCERN.
UM, COMING SOON, AS YOU KNOW, RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE CHURCH ON THAT CORNER THERE, UM, AT LEWIS ROAD, 23 NEW HOUSES ARE, UH, TOWNHOUSES ARE BEING BUILT THERE ACROSS THE STREET FROM US.
PROVIDENCE FORD LIST 200 UNITS, TWO TO THREE BEDROOM UNITS ACROSS THE STREET FROM US.
ORCHARD PORT ACROSS THE STREET FROM US.
VEBO ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET LISTS 206 UNITS.
AND WE AT OAK CREST IN THAT LITTLE NEIGHBORHOOD AND SCHOOL LANE, UM, HAVE 40 TWINS IF THERE ARE THREE BEDROOMS IN EACH, UM, AND ADD THAT TO THE EQUIVALENT OF A SMALL MOVING TOWN, UM, WITH THE SCHOOL TRAFFIC.
I, I WELCOME YOU ALL IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS.
SCHOOL OPENS, COME UP TO THAT CORNER.
YOU CAN'T GET OUT OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
I BELIEVE I UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.
PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T DO THAT STUFF OVER HERE.
I LIVE AT SIX SCHOOL SCHOOL LANE AND I CO-OWN EIGHT SCHOOL LANE AS WELL.
UH, 20 YEARS AGO, I WAS A SINGLE TEACHER IN THE SPRINGPORT AREA SCHOOL DISTRICT, AND I KNEW THAT I WANTED TO LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY THAT I WORK IN, AND I FOUND THE WAY TO FINANCE AND MOVE INTO THE COMMUNITY.
AND I STILL LIVE IN THE EXACT SAME HOUSE BECAUSE I CAN'T AFFORD TO MOVE FURTHER.
UM, I KNOW THAT YOU ALL ARE NOT IN CHARGE OF ZONING, HOWEVER, FIVE DIFFERENT ZONING CONSIDERATIONS FOR THIS ONE.
PROPERTY BUILD SEEMS TO ATTEMPTING TO BE APPEALING TO SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE OF WHAT YOU HAD PLANNED IN YOUR DEVELOPMENT PLAN PRIOR.
UM, THE REASON WHY I'M CONCERNED IS POTENTIALLY THE FUTURE OF THAT PARCEL OF LAND BECAUSE ONCE IT GETS REZONED, THEN THE HORSES ARE OUT OF THE BARN.
UM, NO OFFENSE, IT IS A SMALL AND AGING POPULATION AT THE CHURCH.
AND IF THE CHURCH WOULD BE FORCED TO MOVE TO A SMALLER PROPERTY, WHAT WOULD STOP THIS ENTITY THAT WE DON'T KNOW OF PURCHASING THE REST OF THE LAND AND BUILDING EVEN MORE.
UM, I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO SAY NOT IN MY BACKYARD TO THE SAME PROPERTY MANAGERS, THE COLUMBUS PROPERTY MANAGEMENT SERVICE
[01:20:01]
THAT MISSION FIRST USES BECAUSE THEY'RE CURRENTLY BEING SUED BY MEMBERS OF, UH, ANOTHER COMMUNITY IN PHILADELPHIA THAT I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU GUYS TO CHECK OUT.HI, I'M JENNIFER CATHERINE FROM FIVE 70 FRUIT FARM ROAD.
HOUSING PRICES IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY HAVE GONE UP $140,000 OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS.
AND MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME HAS ONLY GONE UP A THOUSAND DOLLARS.
WE KNOW THAT WE NEED AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THIS AREA, AND I KNOW I LIVE IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
I WANT MY DAUGHTER, SHE WANTS TO BE A SOCIAL WORKER.
I WANT HER TO BE ABLE TO COME BACK HERE AND NOT LIVE WITH ME.
HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE WORKFORCE HOUSING IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE SHE WANTS TO COME BACK AND WORK.
AND THAT'S PROBABLY IS FOR 50% OF THE PEOPLE HERE.
WE DON'T WANT OUR CHILDREN TO LIVE WITH US.
WE DON'T WANNA HAVE TO LIVE WITH OUR FAMILIES TO AFFORD HOUSING HERE IN OUR TOWNSHIP.
I WORK IN THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING ARENA I HAVE FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS.
IT IS HARD TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
I KNOW YOU WANT TO ASK ABOUT AMENITIES OR HOW MUCH GREEN SPACE AND ALL THAT, BUT TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING, TRUE AFFORDABLE HOUSING THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY FINANCE AND ALLOW TO SUSTAIN ITSELF OVER THE NEXT 20, 30, 50 YEARS, IT CRE IT, IT CAUSES YOU TO HAVE TO BUILD IN A SMALL CONDENSED AREA.
WE WOULD LOVE FOR THESE AFFORDABLE HOUSING BUILDINGS TO BE SPREAD OUT OVER FIVE ACRES OR SIX ACRES AND HAVE WALKING PATHS AND LOTS OF AMENITIES.
THE REALITY IS IN BUILDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING, HAVE WORKFORCE HOUSING, SENIOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR ALL.
IT REQUIRES IT TO BE SHOEHORNED INTO A VERY TINY SPACE.
ALL THESE DEVELOPERS DO A BEAUTIFUL JOB FIGURING OUT HOW TO MAKE ALL THOSE THINGS WORK SO THAT WE CAN PROVIDE AFFORDABLE HOUSING SO KIDS CAN COME HOME TO LIVE HERE.
SO OUR SENIORS CAN CONTINUE TO LIVE HERE AS THEY CAN'T WALK UP THEIR STEPS OR, OR MOVE AROUND.
THIS AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROVIDES HOUSING THAT ALLOWS EVERYBODY TO GET UP AND DOWN STEPS, MOVE AROUND IT.
IT'S FEASIBLE FOR DISABILITIES.
IT ALLOWS A LOT OF PEOPLE TO LIVE IN COMMUNITY WITH ONE ANOTHER.
IT'S WITHIN A HALF A MILE OF A BUS STOP.
THAT IS AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IT'S ALSO A VERY WALKABLE COMMUNITY AS WE GO THROUGHOUT REER FORD.
AND THERE ARE LOTS OF PLACES WHERE PEOPLE CAN WALK TO TO GET THOSE COMMUNITY NEEDS.
THERE'S VICTORY PARK AND OTHER AREAS WHERE PEOPLE CAN WALK TO TO GET THOSE AMENITIES FOR THEIR CHILDREN.
I'M JOHN MARTIN, 24 SCHOOL SITE COURT.
BEEN A RESIDENT THERE FOR 31 YEARS.
UM, THANKFULLY I WON'T BE SINGING TONIGHT WITH IT.
BUT, UM, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH A LOT OF THINGS I HEAR AND, UM, ABOUT THE NEED FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND EVERYTHING.
BUT I AM GONNA REITERATE AGAIN, WE ARE MAKING FIVE CONCESSIONS.
THEY'RE ASKING FOR, AT LEAST AT AS OF THIS POINT, LIKE WITH THE, WITH THE ZONING LAWS OR THE CODES TO IMPLEMENT THIS, TO START TO IMPLEMENT THIS.
UM, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE ALL THESE ROADBLOCKS, LIKE WE ABIDE BY THE WOLVES IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE ARE, WE ARE, WE HAVE BEEN THERE.
IT'S A VERY, WE ARE A VERY OLD NEIGHBORHOOD.
I HAVE NEIGHBORS THAT ARE THERE LONGER THAN ME.
THIS THING HAS BEEN GOING AND THEY'VE BEEN THERE SINCE THE START.
UM, WE TAKE PRIDE IN THAT COMMUNITY.
WE ASK VERY LITTLE FOR IN OUR COMMUNITY, LIKE DOWN IN THAT.
LIKE WE DON'T, UM, PUSH FOR ROADS BEING REP PAVED.
WE, WE RARELY, WE POLICE OURSELVES.
WE'RE, WE'RE A COMMUNITY THAT'S OUTSIDE HELPING OUR KIDS AND EVERYTHING TOO.
THIS IS CONGESTING THAT AND IT WILL DEFINITELY CONGEST IT.
AND WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WITH THAT.
SO MY PROBLEM IS, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I READ, UM, THE THINGS ABOUT OUR TOWNSHIP.
I SEE, UH, THE MEETINGS AND ALL.
AND YOU TALK ABOUT, UM, THE PRINCIPLES THAT YOU PUT IN PLACE TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF THIS TOWNSHIP.
YOU KNOW, WHAT THIS TOWNSHIP MEANS TO A LOT OF US.
THIS IS WHY WE WORKED HARD TO GET THESE HOUSES.
WHEN I FIRST MOVED IN THERE, THAT HOUSE WAS $115,000 MOVED FROM THE COAL REGIONS.
BUT I WORKED HARDER, MY WIFE WORKED HARDER.
SIMILAR TO THE PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.
I DON'T FEEL I WAS ENTITLED TO IT.
AND, AND THAT'S JUST THE WAY I FEEL WITH THIS.
SO, UM, I REALLY LIKE YOU TO LIKE, WHEN YOU DO THIS IN LATE AND YOU SEE HOW MUCH MORE ROOM IT IS AND YOU ACTUALLY VISUALLY SEE HOW MUCH ROOM IT'S GONNA TAKE UP, I WANT YOU TO CONSIDER THAT WE'RE THERE.
[01:25:01]
BEEN THERE, WE'RE THE NEIGHBORS AND NOT I REALLY THINK YOU SHOULD CONSIDER OTHER LOCATIONS OR IF THEY HAVE IN FACT CONSIDERED OTHER LOCATIONS SINCE WE'RE BRINGING UP AN ORGANIZATION FROM BRIDGEPORT, UM, PEOPLE FROM OUT OF THE AREA THAT'S GONNA TELL US THAT IT'S SO GOOD RIGHT THERE, THERE HAS TO BE OTHER PLACES THAT IT MIGHT FIT BETTER.I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE YET, BUT THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING MORE LIKE, SO I JUST WANT YOU TO CONSIDER US WHEN YOU'RE DOING THAT, THE 40 PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE AND THE NUMBERS LIKE MY WIFE HAD GIVEN YOU BEFORE.
ALL THOSE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY, HOW THIS TIGHTENS THINGS UP AND DOES DECREASE, POSSIBLY DECREASE THE VALUE OF OUR HOUSE AND THE QUALITY OF OUR LIVING, LIKE TRAFFIC, EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES ALONG WITH THAT.
OKAY, MY NAME'S M**K LOMBARDO.
I'M NOT A FAN OF PUBLIC SPEAKING, SO EXCUSE MY AWKWARDNESS, WORRY ABOUT FINE.
UM, I LIVE RIGHT BEHIND WHERE THE CHURCH IS AS WELL, WHERE THEY'RE PROPOSING THIS.
AND AS TIGHT AS IT LOOKS ON THAT, AS SMALL AS THAT SPACE LOOKS ON THERE, IT'S LIKE NOTHING TO HOW SMALL THAT SPACE IS.
I WOULD INVITE ANY OF YOU OVER TO COME STAND ON MY DECK.
SO I JUST TAKE ONE LOOK AT THAT PARCEL OF LAND BETWEEN THE CHURCH AND WHERE THE NEIGHBORHOODS ARE.
AND WITHIN FIVE SECONDS YOU'D SEE LIKE THERE'S NO WAY THAT THAT COMFORTABLY FITS IN THERE.
UM, ALSO PARKING IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD ARE ALREADY CARS, ALL OF THEM DOWN THE STREET.
UM, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE THAT PARKING SPILL EVER WOULD BE A PROBLEM FOR US.
AND WAS IT YOU THAT LIVE OFF OF, OF JUAN ROAD? MM-HMM.
WHEN I LEAVE IN THE MORNING, IF I HIT TRAFFIC AT A CERTAIN TIME AND I HAVE TO GO LEFT, I HAVE TO TURN RIGHT SOMETIMES TURN AROUND IN A NEIGHBORHOOD JUST TO GO LEFT.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I HAVE TO GO THE OPPOSITE WAY, TURN AROUND JUST TO GET BEHIND ALL THE TRAFFIC I'VE BACKED UP THERE.
AND THIS IS BEFORE THEY BUILD THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT THEY'RE GONNA BUILD ON THE CORNER OVER THERE.
THAT'S SEPARATE FROM ALL THIS.
RIGHT? SO THESE ARE MY CONCERNS.
I'M THE ASSISTANT CLERK FOR RVC AND I SUPPORT THE PROJECT.
MY GRANDDAD AND MY DAD AND I WORKED FOR THE WATER COMPANY IN THIS AREA.
NOT THE SAME COMPANY THAT'S GOT LOOKED UP, THE ONE ROAD TORN UP RIGHT NOW, BUT PRE PREDECESSOR.
AND, UH, WE ALL LIVED IN COMPANY HOUSING OVER AT LOCK 57 ON THE CHUCO CANAL.
UM, AND I WORKED THERE WHEN I WAS A KID AND WHEN I WENT, I WENT TO SCHOOL AND THEN I STARTED AN OFFICE IN SPRING CITY, RENTED THE, UH, OFFICE FOR A HUNDRED BUCKS A MONTH, RENTED THE APARTMENT BEHIND IT FOR 150 BUCKS A MONTH.
UH, THE COST OF HOUSING NOW IS, IS 10 TIMES.
YOU KNOW, ABOUT 10 TIMES THAT ADMISSION.
UM, AND THERE'S JUST NOT COMPANY HOUSING OR OTHER AFFORDABLE RENT, UM, IN THIS AREA OR IN ANY OTHER AREA.
EVERY TOWNSHIP ACROSS THE WHOLE STATE IS PROBABLY SAYING, WHAT'S THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ME? PEOPLE CAN GO ELSEWHERE.
BUT IT COMES DOWN TO THE DECISION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF WHETHER YOU WANT PEOPLE LIKE ME THAT ARE STARTING OUT IN THE WORLD TO HAVE A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN GET STARTED OR NOT.
AND I, MY SON LIVES WITH US NOW, HE'S 34 YEARS OLD.
HE WORKS VERY HARD AND HE DOESN'T FEEL ENTITLED, BUT HE, HE CANNOT AFFORD RENT ANYWHERE IN THIS AREA OR IN THE AREA WHERE HE WORKS.
HE HAS TO DRIVE 40 MINUTES FROM WHERE WE LIVE TO WORK.
I SUPPORT IT TOO, BECAUSE YOU THINK OF THE KIDS, YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED KIDS, YOU KNOW, ARE THEY GONNA BURDEN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT? THEY COME, YOU KNOW, THESE KIDS, UM, A LOT OF 'EM HAVE IEPS FROM THE SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT SITUATIONS THEY CAN'T DEAL WITH AT THEIR HOMES.
THEIR, THEIR FAMILIES ARE UNDER STRESS.
THEY CAN'T, THEY CAN'T MAKE IT.
AND SO IT'S COSTING THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY BECAUSE ALL THESE KIDS ARE OUT THERE, THERE'S NO HOUSING.
AND YOU SAID THERE'S NO PLACE ELSE TO BUILD IN THE TOWNSHIP.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, SO THE ANSWER IS NOT GOOD, BUT IT'S THE ONLY ANSWER WE COULD THINK OF.
AND WE JUST, YOU KNOW, AT OUR CHURCH, WE'RE, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO DO, TRYING TO DO IT, YOU KNOW, TRY TO MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN TO SOLVE A PROBLEM THAT ALL OF US HAVE.
AND I FEEL RESPONSIBLE AS A, A
[01:30:01]
PERSON WHO WORKED ON PLANNING COMMISSIONS AND WITH DEVELOPING ZONING PLANS IN THIS STATE, UH, FOR NOT HAVING FIGURED THIS OUT BEFORE NOW, BUT WE'RE STUCK WITH A BAD SITUATION.UM, ANYWAY, I I, I SAID WE'RE TRYING TO DO THIS.
UM, I ACTUALLY LIVE IN LANSDALE.
I'M ALSO A MEMBER WITH MIKE IN THE MACO 30%.
UM, I HAVE SOME OF THE SAME CONCERNS.
UM, THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY, TOTALLY IN ALL OF THE TOWNSHIPS THAT ARE ALL FALLING THROUGH THE CRACKS OF VERY CLOSE TO IT.
IF, IF YOU CAN'T, IF YOU CAN'T SEE IT OR COUNT YOURSELF, LUCKY, UM, ALL PEOPLE DO PEOPLE NEED IS AN OPPORTUNITY, UM, TO ACTUALLY LIVE, HAVE A HOME WITH AN ADDRESS SO THAT THEY CAN AFFORD FOOD, HAVE A JOB, EDUCATE, PUT THEIR CHILDREN IN LOCAL SCHOOLS, WORSHIP LOCALLY SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO OUT OF THE COMMUNITY.
AND THEREFORE THEN THEY BECOME PRODUCTIVE, IMPORTANT CITIZENS OF THE COMMUNITY.
I'M ALSO STRUCK, I'M STARING AT YOUR SIGN OVER THERE, IT SAYS, ROOTED IN HISTORY, GROWING IN PROMISE.
AND THAT SECOND PART ABOUT GROWING IN PROMISE, IT SEEMS TO BE THAT YOU ARE STATING TO YOUR, YOUR TOWNSHIP MEMBERS, PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE, IS THAT YOUR PROMISING THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE AND PROSPER IN TOWNSHIP OF UPPER PROVIDENCE.
SO THEREFORE, I'M VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF THIS DEVELOPMENT, OF THIS SECTORS POINT, BECAUSE I WANT UPPER PROVIDENCE TO LIVE UP TO WHAT IS RIGHT THERE.
IT'S STARING RIGHT AT ME, GROWING IN PROMISE.
IT MUST BE VERY IMPORTANT, UM, AND AN IMPORTANT MOTTO AND MISSION TO THIS TOWNSHIP TO OFFER ITS CITIZENS THAT OPPORTUNITY TO STAY IN UPPER PROVIDENCE.
THANK YOU TO, I JUST WANNA POINT OUT THE, UH, SUNSHINE LAW REQUIRES THAT YOU ACCEPT PUBLIC COMMENT FROM RESIDENTS AND PEOPLE WHO OWN, UH, BUSINESSES IN THE TOWNSHIP.
SO, UM, PEOPLE WHO ARE OUTSIDE OF THAT DEFINITION, UH, DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO COMMENT.
WE, WE'VE HEARD FROM TWO PEOPLE NOW WHO ARE OUTSIDE OF THE TOWNSHIP.
SO I'M, I'M LEADING THAT UP TO YOU, TO WHETHER YOU WANT TO HANDLE IT OR NOT, OR ENFORCE IT, BUT I'M JUST POINTING OUT WHAT THE LAW SAYS.
WELL, AND THAT'S THE FIRST GENTLEMAN THAT SPOKE FOR THIS LADY.
HE DIDN'T SAY WHERE HE WAS LIVING.
I WAS GONNA ASK THAT QUESTION, BUT, BUT I, I APPRECIATE THAT AND I THINK THAT'S A VALID, A VALID ARGUMENT.
HI, I'M RE I LIVE AT 13 SCHOOL SIDE COURT.
UM, AND I'M JUST CONCERNED, I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO BE, UH, BELABOR THESE POINT, BUT I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT I DO CARE AND I, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IT, BUT I DO WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT I'M NOT REALLY IN FAVOR OF THIS.
AND THE REASON IS, COMING INTO SCHOOL LANE, IT, IT IS SO CONGESTED AND IT'S WINDY AND OUR ROAD, IT IS JUST TO HAVE SOMETHING IN THE BACK THERE AND MORE CARDS COME, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE A THING, A LOT OF COME IN OUR WAY, TURN AROUND AND YOU THEN COULD GO OUT TO TRY TO TURN.
IT'S JUST THAT, IT'S JUST THE SAFETY OF OUR KID, THE SCHOOL BUSES UP THERE AND IT IS TRAFFIC ON SCHOOL LANE, ON VAUGHAN ROAD, UH, OR RATHER, I MEAN, VAUGHN ROAD AND LEWIS ROAD AND A SCHOOL THING, AND TO HAVE ONE MORE CONGESTION.
IT'S JUST, I'M JUST NOT FOR IT.
BUT I, I UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE MISSION, I REALLY DO, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK THAT SPOT IS A, A SPOT BECAUSE OF THE CONGESTION OF THE TRAFFIC AND VARIOUS OTHER THINGS.
I'M FROM, UH, ACTUALLY LIMERICK TOWNSHIP, BUT I'M THE MODERATOR AT ROERS FORD BAPTIST CHURCH.
AND JUST, WELL, BECAUSE YOU, YOU JUST HEARD WHAT YOU SAID, RIGHT? UH, WELL, THE CHURCH HAS AN INTEREST IN THIS.
I, I'M THE MODERATOR OF THE CHURCH.
ALRIGHT, WELL, UH, THIS HAS REALLY BEEN AN EDUCATIONAL, UH, PROCESS FOR US.
UH, AND, UH, I HAD A WHOLE SEPARATE SPEECH, UH, WRITTEN UP, BUT I, I JUST WANNA MAKE THE POINT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO DO THIS OUT OF OUR, UH, CHRISTIAN CONVICTIONS.
UH, YOU KNOW, JESUS SAYS, LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AND WHO IS YOUR NEIGHBOR? IT'S ANYBODY, UH, WHOSE
[01:35:01]
NEED YOU CAN SEE AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT.AND I GET ALL THE COMPLICATIONS WITH THIS.
AND IF, IF WE'RE GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS TO WORK OUT AND CONSIDER.
AND WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT ON THAT.
AND BY THE WAY, WE APPRECIATE YOUR WORK FOR ON BEHALF OF THE COMMUNITY.
UH, IT'S AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT JOB THAT YOU DO.
THE ONE POINT THAT I WANTED TO GET ACROSS WAS THAT CHURCHES ARE UNIQUELY, UH, SITUATED, UH, TO DO THIS KIND OF THING.
IF WE, IF WE NEED PLACES FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO HAPPEN, UH, AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE SUPPORTED, UH, BY TAX CREDITS.
YOU NEED, UH, A LANDOWNER THAT IS WILLING TO PROVIDE LAND AT BELOW MARKET COST, UH, THAT'S SITUATED IN A PLACE, UH, WHERE THEY'LL QUALIFY FOR THE TAX CREDITS.
UH, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF LAND AROUND, BUT NOT MUCH OF IT, UH, FITS THAT DEFINITION.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES CHURCHES, UH, UNIQUELY QUALIFIED TO DO THIS SORT OF THING.
SO I KNOW, UH, WE ARE TRYING TO, UH, TO DO SOMETHING AND WE'RE ASKING FOR A LOT OF STUFF BECAUSE WE HAVE NO CHOICE.
UH, THAT'S THE ONLY WAY, UH, IT CAN GET DONE.
UH, BUT, UH, I, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THE POINT THAT, UH, THIS ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN SOMEPLACE ELSE.
UH, IT ISN'T GONNA HAPPEN JUST BY MAGIC.
IT'S GONNA HAPPEN BECAUSE SOMEBODY'S IN THE RIGHT PLACE, IN THE RIGHT TIME AND THE RIGHT FRAME OF MIND, UH, TO, TO SAY, YEAH, WE'RE, WE'RE IN FOR THIS.
UH, WE, WE, WE WANT IT TO HAPPEN.
UH, CLEARLY WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO.
I THINK THIS LADY BEFORE YOU, SIR, SHE GO AHEAD.
I'M A RESIDENT OF UPPER PROVIDENCE, BUT I'M ALSO ON THE BOARD OF ORION COMMUNITIES IN PHOENIXVILLE.
AND I, UH, VOLUNTEERED THERE COUPLE DAYS A WEEK.
AND I SEE THE NEED COME THROUGH THAT DOOR FROM PEOPLE IN RO FOOT, PEOPLE IN SPRING CITY THAT HAVE A DESPERATE NEED FOR HOUSING AND CANNOT FIND ANYTHING AFFORDABLE.
SO IT IS A NEED THAT IS SO GREAT, NOT ONLY HERE, BUT AT OTHER PLACES, OBVIOUSLY.
SO I SUPPORT THIS KIND OF HOUSING, WHICH I THINK WILL MEET SOME OF IT, NOT ALL.
AND, UH, YOU LIVE THERE TOO? YES.
UM, I'M KIND OF TORN ON THIS PART OF ME THINKS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IS WONDERFUL.
I KNOW MYSELF, JUST THE PRICE OF OUR LITTLE TOWNHOUSES IN OTTA THAT ARE NOTHING FANCY, UH, THEY HAVE NO BELLS AND WHISTLES.
THEY'RE JUST YOUR BASIC LITTLE SQUARE TOWNHOUSES THAT WERE BUILT BACK IN THE SEVENTIES.
UM, THEY'RE GOING FOR 300 SOME ODD THOUSAND DOLLARS NOW FOR THESE LITTLE PLACES.
SO I, I SHUDDER TO THINK WHAT I'D HAVE TO PAY IF I DECIDED TO MOVE TO AN APARTMENT AS A RETIRED PERSON.
UM, IT WOULD BE AT LEAST TWICE MY MORTGAGE TO FIND EVEN A ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT.
AND I, I LIKE WHAT YOUR IDEA IS.
I DON'T REALLY KNOW MUCH ABOUT THAT SPACE, SO I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WOULD BE THE BEST SPOT SPACE WISE TO PUT IT, BUT I TRUST IT.
THAT WILL ALL BE THOROUGHLY CHECKED OUT BEFORE ANYTHING IS DECIDED.
MY BIGGEST CONCERN, AND I INVITE YOU FOLKS, YOU KNOW, PASTOR, UM, TO COME OUT TO OUR AREA ONCE WHEN SCHOOL IS STARTING IN THE MORNING WHEN SCHOOL IS LETTING OUT IN THE AFTERNOON AND TRY TO GET THROUGH LEWIS ROAD.
AND WHEN I SAY GRIDLOCK, I'M NOT KIDDING.
YOU CAN TAKE 25 MINUTES TO GO FROM THE CORNER OF VAUGHN AND LEWIS TO GET PAST THE HIGH SCHOOLS.
AND WE'RE TALKING WHAT, MAYBE HALF A MONTH DISTANCE A ROAD.
AND IT CAN TAKE 25 MINUTES TO GET ACROSS THERE.
AND WITH THE 25 TOWNHOUSES GOING ON THE CORNER, THAT COULD BE 25 CARS, 50 CARS, DEPENDING UPON TWO PEOPLE IN A HOUSE WITH TWO CARS, MAYBE A CHILD WITH A CAR.
AND THEN YOU'VE GOT APPROXIMATELY 45 APARTMENTS, 45 CARS, MAYBE 80 CARS.
ADD THEM ALL TOGETHER, PUT THEM
[01:40:01]
IN THAT LITTLE SECTION.I KNOW WE'RE GETTING A CIRCLE THERE FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, UH, WHICH WOULD ALLEVIATE, OKAY THEN THAT MAKES IT EVEN WORSE.
UM, YOU CAN BE SITTING, IF YOU WANNA COME UP VAUGHN ROAD FROM OTTA AND THE TOWNHOUSE COMMUNITIES AND SCHOOL LANE TO UP TO LEWIS TO TURN LEFT.
YOU CAN SIT THERE IN THE MORNING AND IN THE AFTERNOON RUSH HOUR, YOU CAN SIT THERE FOR 15, 20 MINUTES JUST TRYING TO MAKE THAT TURN.
AND YOU'RE GOING TO POTENTIALLY, WITH ALL THESE, DEVELOP THESE TWO DEVELOPMENTS, ADD ANOTHER A HUNDRED CARS EACH RUSH HOUR, MAYBE, MAYBE MORE THAN THAT.
SO I WOULD INVITE YOU TO COME OUT AND, AND SEE THAT SO YOU CAN EXPERIENCE WHAT THE RESIDENTS GO THROUGH ALL THE TIME, EVERY DAY.
AND THAT WOULD BE MY BIGGEST PROBLEM, WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO, NOT AGAINST HELPING THE PEOPLE.
WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT THE ROPE? THAT IS MY BIGGEST QUESTION.
MY NAME BILL ELLISON SIXTH SCHOOL SITE COURT.
AND I JUST WANTED TO REITERATE THAT WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO AFFORDABLE WORKFORCE HOUSING.
AND IN FACT, UH, OUR 42, 40 2-YEAR-OLD SON LIVES WITH US NOW, WORKS AT STARBUCKS.
AND I WISH HE WOULD GET OUT
I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THAT, UM, BUT ANYWAY, I MEAN, WE JUST AS A COMMUNITY, UH, MY NEIGHBORS AND I JUST FEEL THAT IT'S A SMALL PLACE BEHIND THE CHURCH THERE IN THAT AREA.
IT IS JUST NOT SUITABLE, BUT THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO SQUEEZE IT IN AND, AND IT'S NOT GONNA WORK.
ANYBODY ELSE? WE'RE GOING TO, WELL, I'LL DO THIS TILL NINE O'CLOCK, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO DO IT TILL NINE O'CLOCK.
UH, CHRIS MCKAY DOWN ON WALNUT STREET, MONTCLAIR, UM, THIS SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT PROJECT.
UM, THESE PEOPLE DO NEED, YOU KNOW, PLACES TO LIVE.
UH, THE HOUSE DIRECTLY NEXT TO MINE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, EIGHT FEET AWAY, UM, HAS HAD, IS JUST A SLUM, AN ABSOLUTE SLUM.
IT'S HAD TWO OWNERS, IT'S HAD A ROTATION OF VERY DOWN AND OUT.
PEOPLE GO IN AND OUT, AND IT LOOKS LIKE A VERY HARD THING TO DO, ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE KIDS.
IF THEIR CAR BREAKS DOWN, YOU KNOW, THE WOMAN WHO LIVES ON TOP OF A GARAGE HAS TO USE HER PHONE SOMETIMES TO CONTACT HER HUSBAND WHO'S OUT, YOU KNOW, REALLY BUSTING HIS ASS TO MAKE IT WORK.
UM, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE IT HARD.
AND IT'S, AND I'VE BEEN WATCHING THESE MEETINGS A LOT, UM, YOU KNOW, JUST AS IT'S A THING THAT HAS KIND OF COME UP IN THE NEWS AND LIKE, AND YOU SEE LIKE THESE PEOPLE HAVE TOUGH, TOUGH LIVES AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S DISAPPOINTING TO PEOPLE TO BE LIKE, YES, IT'D BE, I'M NOT AGAINST THIS, BUT I'D HAVE TO SIT AT A STOP SIGN FOR ANOTHER 25 SECONDS IF THIS BUILDING WAS HERE.
IT IS JUST, IT'S JUST WILDLY DISAPPOINTING.
AND I'M SORRY THESE PEOPLE, LIKE, YOU GUYS GOT NO SHOT AT THIS.
IF THERE, THERE'S WAY TOO MUCH ZONING CHANGES AND THE ENTIRE ELECTION COMING UP IS GONNA BE ABOUT THE ZONING CHANGES MADE FOR THIS LARGER PROJECT PARKHOUSE.
I'VE, UM, BEEN A RESIDENT OF THE TOWNSHIP FOR THE LAST 32 YEARS, LIVE ON LENAPE CIRCLE OVER IN THE MINGO DEVELOPMENT.
AND, UM, I CERTAINLY KNOW ABOUT THE CORON AT, UH, LEWIS AND BOND.
AND, UH, I APPRECIATE VERY, VERY MUCH AS A MEMBER OF RBC, UH, THE CONCERNS THAT ARE BEING RAISED AND THE NEED TO FIGURE OUT SOME WAY TO SQUARE A CIRCLE HERE.
WE REALIZE I FEEL VERY STRONGLY HAVING SEEN ALL OF THE CORN FIELDS AND, AND OTHER OPEN SPACES AROUND ME TURN INTO VERY EXPENSIVE HOMES.
I, UH, I HAVE A VERY STRONG SENSE OF A NEED TO DO SOMETHING FOR THE OTHER END OF THE HOUSING MARKET.
AND, UH, SO WE'LL NEED TO SEE IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO BRING TOGETHER ALL OF THESE VARIOUS CONCERNS IN A WAY THAT REALLY MEETS THE NEEDS OF OUR COMMUNITY.
SO THANKS A BUNCH FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY.
UH, BY SHOW OF HANDS, HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE STILL INTEND TO OFFER PUBLIC COMMENT? OKAY, THANKS.
[01:45:01]
UH, MATT KIRSCH, UH, UPPER PROVIDENCE RESIDENT.UM, I, I LOVE THAT WE HAVE THIS GREAT DISCOURSE THAT WE CAN HAVE PEOPLE ON DIFFERENT SIDES OF THESE, THIS ISSUE TO, TO REALLY HASH OUT THE THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO OUR COMMUNITY.
UM, I TAKE MY HAT OFF TO THIS FAITH COMMUNITY THAT IS REALLY TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN SERVING PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED MAYBE A LEG UP, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT OF EXTRA HELP.
UM, I WORK IN A SOCIAL SERVICE ORGANIZATION AND I SEE PEOPLE, SENIORS, VETERANS, SINGLE PARENTS, UH, PEOPLE WHO HAVE ESCAPED ABUSE, WHO MAY NOT HAVE LIFE SAVINGS, MAY NOT HAVE THE MONEY FOR A DOWN PAYMENT FOR A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, MAY NOT EVEN HAVE THE FIRST MONTH, LAST MONTH'S RENT, THE SECURITY DEPOSIT.
AND HERE'S AN ORGANIZATION THAT'S COMING UP WITH CREATIVE SOLUTIONS TO TRY TO FIND WAYS THAT WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN, CAN SUPPORT THAT.
I LOVE THE CREATIVE IDEA OF USING THE GYM AND SOME OF THE COMMUNITY SPACE THAT ALREADY EXISTS.
IT'S A WAY FOR THIS FAITH COMMUNITY TO COME, COME AND HELP THOSE WHO ARE IN NEED AND NOT JUST SAYING, HEY, HERE'S A FINANCIAL TRANSACTION, BUT WE'RE HERE TO SUPPORT THE VALUES OF, OF THEIR FAITH.
I'M NOT A PART OF THEIR FAITH COMMUNITY, BUT, BUT I REALLY ADMIRE WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
SO I'M VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF THIS ORGANIZATION, UH, OF THIS PLAN.
AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING THE FINAL PLAN AND I HOPE THAT WE'LL HAVE AN OPEN MIND AS A COMMUNITY.
IS THAT ALL? OH, STATE YOUR NAME AGAIN, SIR.
YOU KNOW, I, I, I I CAN'T HELP BUT SEE THE IRONY.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD ALL THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT PARKHOUSE AND WE ALL KNOW THAT PARKHOUSE WAS FOUNDED FOR THE INDIGENT COMMUNITY IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY BACK IN 1807.
THE FIRST BUILDINGS WERE BUILT, SO NOW THAT'S MOVED ON.
THAT'S WATER OVER TO THEM AT THIS POINT.
BUT THIS IS WHAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE COMING TO, TO SERVE THIS COMMUNITY.
AND I THINK WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE, UH, YOU KNOW, PROPOSING TO DO HERE IS, IS JUST A SMALL CHIP AT THE PROBLEM, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE.
AND I KNOW THE TRAFFIC IS A BIG CONCERN.
THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC THAT'S COMING TO THAT CORNER FROM A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TRIPS THIS MIGHT GENERATE, BUT, UH, CERTAINLY IT'S NOT THE ISSUE THAT SHOULD STOP THIS PROJECT FROM HAPPENING.
ASSUMING, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THINGS, THE STORM WATER AND SO ON AND SO FORTH COULD BE MET.
SO I WOULD SUPPORT THIS PROJECT.
ANYBODY ELSE? MY FRIEND AL BACK THERE.
YOU'RE NOT GONNA SAY ANYTHING ON TODAY? I'M GOOD, THANKS.
UH, WE HAVE NO ACTION ON THIS.
THIS WAS, UH, LISTEN AND LEARN.
UH, I APPRECIATE ALL YOU FOLKS.
YOU DID A GREAT JOB OF, YOU KNOW, JUST TALKING AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, TALKING, AND I APPRECIATE THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY, YOU KNOW, COMMENTS OR, YOU KNOW, ACCUSATORY COMMENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT, IT, IT'S NICE THAT WE CAN DO THIS.
YOU KNOW, NOBODY'S MAKING ANY JUDGEMENTS HERE.
ALL WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE ASKING OR WHAT THEY'RE ASKING THE COMMUNITY TO DO.
AND OUR JOB UP HERE IS TO UNDERSTAND THAT AND BY ASKING QUESTIONS IS HOW I UNDERSTAND IT.
SO THANK YOU FOR EVERYBODY COMING OUT.
UM, UM, THANK YOU REVEREND AND ALL YOUR MEN BAND AND MARRIED MEN.
AND WE STILL HAVE A MEETING TO GO, SO IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE, WE STILL HAVE OTHER THINGS TO TALK ABOUT, WHICH YOU PROBABLY DON'T CARE ABOUT
SO IF YOU WANT TO STAY, YOU ARE WELCOME.
YOU CAN EVEN MAKE COMMENTS ON THAT.
BUT I UNDERSTAND YOU PROBABLY WANT TO LEAVE.
[01:52:14]
I THOUGHT THAT WAS, I RESENT MINISTER.I WAS GONNA SAY, BUT YOU TOLD ME NOT TO.
NOT IN MY, NO, WE DID FINISH THE MEETING.
IT WAS A LOT OF, LOT OF, LOT OF THINGS THERE.
THE NEXT, THE NEXT THING WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT, IT'S GONNA BE VERY QUICK BECAUSE IT'S QUITE LATE, IS THE, IS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UM, I'VE DONE SOME MORE LANGUAGE, I'VE WRITTEN SOME MORE IN THERE.
IF YOU GO TO THE HANDOUT THAT I GAVE YOU AND GO TO PAGE 43, 44 AND 45 AT THE BACK AND 46 IN THE BACK.
UM, SO THAT IS SORT OF THE EXPANSION AND THE CONCLUSION OF THE LAND USE ELEMENT.
IT TALKS ABOUT THE AREAS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, SECOND AVENUE, WALKER TRACK, ROUTE 29, INTERCHANGE, THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, IT ALSO TALKS ABOUT ZONING CHANGES RECOMMENDED.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THESE OVER THE WHOLE, JUST GO TO LIKE THE LAST, LITERALLY THE, THE LAST, THE LAST THREE PAGES.
UM, IT TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT MOVING FORWARD IN TERMS OF ZONING DISTRICTS AND HOW THOSE MAY NEED TO CHANGE AND BE UPDATED.
IT'S REAL HIGH LEVEL AND, AND CONFIDENCE SHOULD BE THAT.
THE IMPORTANT PAGE IS REALLY THE PAGE 46, THE THE LAST PAGE AND IT TALKS ABOUT THE ACTION ITEMS. I'VE GONE THROUGH MY WHOLE SECTION AND PULLED OUT MY ACTION ITEMS AND WE CAN REFER BACK TO THE DOCUMENT FOR MORE SPECIFICS.
BUT THESE ARE SORT OF THE HIGH LEVEL TITLES OF THEM.
AND WE ALSO HAVE FROM THE LAST MEETING, ANTHONY'S LIST OF, OF ACTION ITEMS FROM THE TRANSPORTATION ELEMENT.
WE'LL GET SOME FROM JEN, PULL SOME OUT OF HER SECTIONS.
WHAT I'M GONNA DO IS I'M GONNA GIVE YOU A LITTLE HOMEWORK BETWEEN NOW AND SEPTEMBER 4TH AND I REALIZE IT'S LABOR DAY.
BUT I'M GONNA SEND YOU A SHEET WITH ALL OF THE ACTION ITEMS COMPILED BETWEEN JEN MINE, ANTHONY'S, AND I WANT YOU TO GO THROUGH AND I WANT YOU TO RANK THEM HIGH LEVEL OR HIGH PRIORITY, MEDIUM PRIORITY AND LOW PRIORITY.
AND WE'RE GONNA DEFINE HIGH PRIORITIES WITHIN THE FIRST NEXT, WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR TO TWO YEARS AFTER ADOPTION.
THE MEDIUM PRIORITIES THREE TO FIVE AND LOW PRIORITY IS AFTER FIVE.
SO WHAT WE'LL DO AFTER THAT IS IF YOU GET ME THAT ON OR BEFORE THE FOURTH, I WILL COMPILE THAT AND THEN WE CAN PUT THAT INTO OUR ACTION ITEMS SECTION.
AND THAT SORT OF ROUNDS OUT THE END OF THE COMP PLAN THAT GOES TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
THAT AND ALL FORMATTED AND MAPS AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF IN THERE.
IT GOES TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND THEY REFLECT
[01:55:01]
ON THAT.AND THEY MAY MOVE SOME OF YOUR ACTION ITEMS. THEY MAY MOVE SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY SAY NO, I THINK THAT'S A HIGH PRIORITY.
AND OBVIOUSLY SINCE THEY'RE THE VOTING BODY, THEY GET THAT SURE.
BUT THEY'RE LOOKING AT YOUR ADVICE FIRST.
AND SO THAT'S WHERE WE'LL BE ON THE FOURTH.
SO HOPEFULLY WE WE'LL BE ABLE TO WRAP THAT UP.
IS THAT ALL WE GOT ON THE FOURTH? NO, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A COUPLE LAND DEVELOPMENTS.
SO THEY'RE NOT AS CONTROVERSIAL.
YEAH, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT, BUT I TAKE THAT BACK.
AS I UNDERSTAND THERE, THEY'RE RELATIVELY BASIC LAND DEVELOPMENT.
SO, UM, BUT RIGHT NOW THE, THE SUPERVISORS HAVE SCHEDULED A HEARING TO ADOPT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR THE, FOR THEIR OCTOBER MEETING, OR NO, I'M SORRY, FOR THEIR, THEIR NOVEMBER MEETING.
WHAT THAT MEANS IS I HAVE TO LOCK THE PLAN IN FULL LANGUAGE BY OCTOBER 4TH BECAUSE I HAVE TO SEND IT OUT TO ALL OF THE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THAT SURROUND THE TOWNSHIP SO THAT THEY HAVE 45 DAYS AND THE COUNTY AND, AND CHESTER COUNTY, THEY HAVE 45 DAYS TO REVIEW IT AND THE COMMENT ON IT.
SO I'M REALLY LOOKING FOR THE FOURTH SORT OF BE THE LAST BIT OF IT.
WE'LL PUT IT TOGETHER IN ONE BIG DOCUMENT, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, HOPEFULLY AT THAT MEETING.
IF WE'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, WE CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION AT THE SECOND MEETING IN, IN SEPTEMBER.
THAT STILL GETS ME WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE OCTOBER MEETING.
UM, AND I APOLOGIZE TO JEN AND ANTHONY 'CAUSE I, I HAD SOME QUESTIONS FROM OUR LAST MEETING RIGHT.
THAT I WANTED TO GET TO THEM AND I OF COURSE DIDN'T.
SO WHERE CAN THOSE BE INCLUDED IN THIS MOVIE FORWARD? I MEAN, FOR INSTANCE, ANTHONY'S, YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT THAT WHERE HE, HE RANKS THE ROADS AND CALLS THEM, YOU KNOW, FEEDERS, FEEDERS AND MATERIAL, WHATEVER, AND I DON'T AGREE WITH SOME OF THOSE.
CAN WE CHANGE THAT OR IS THAT JUST SENT BECAUSE THE COUNTY DOES IT AND THE THE FEDS DO IT AND WHOEVER ELSE IS IN CHARGE, DOES IT? I DON'T AGREE WITH ALL THOSE, YOU KNOW, THOSE CLASSIFICATIONS YOU'VE GIVEN ROAD, NOT YOU PERSONALLY, BUT I MEAN WHEREVER IT COMES FROM, WHETHER IT COMES FROM THE STATE OR WHATEVER, IS THAT CHANGEABLE? AND THE SAME WITH YOU JEN? I MEAN I LOOK AT, I ASSUME YOU, SOME OF YOUR STUFF IS BASED ON BEST PRACTICES OR OTHER SCENARIOS FROM OTHER, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE USING THAT TO MAKE YOUR ASSUMPTION.
AND DO WE DO, CAN WE CHANGE ANY OF THOSE KIND OF THINGS IF WE DON'T THINK IT FITS FOR OUR TO DO? AND, AND PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT THESE ARE JUST RECOMMENDATIONS AT THIS POINT.
WHEN, WHEN WE, ONCE WE ADOPT THE PLAN, WE WILL GO THROUGH ADOPTING A NEW RIGHT OF WAY MAP.
ONE OF THE EASY THINGS TO KNOCK OFF IS GONNA BE ADOPTING A NEW RIGHT OF WAY MAP AND ADOPTING A NEW OFFICIAL MAP.
SO WE MIGHT JUST KNOCK THOSE OFF AT THE END OF THE YEAR AS JUST SORT OF SIDE BUSINESS TO ANY LAND DEVELOPMENTS.
WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT, HIS, IT IS THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF, OF THE ENGINEER TO PUT THESE IN THERE.
WHEN WE GET TO MAKING THAT MAP AND DOING THAT MAP, THAT'S WHEN YOU CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, I THINK TO SAY, I MEAN OBVIOUSLY VOICE IT NOW, BUT ALSO AT THAT TIME WHEN IT BECOMES OFFICIAL, THERE'S NOT, THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT GOING TO BE AN OFFICIAL MAP.
MY QUESTION IS JUST, ARE WE ALLOWED TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS OR IDEAS THAT WE THINK ARE NOT A GOOD FIT FOR, YOU KNOW, USING OTHER COMMUNITIES TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS? NOT US.
'CAUSE I THINK THERE ARE SOME, AND I'M NOT PREPARED, BUT I THINK WHEN WE GET TO THAT FINAL DOCUMENT, WE MIGHT WANNA SAY THAT, HEY VAUGHN ROAD, IT SHOULD BE A MAJOR WHATEVER, I CAN'T REMEMBER ALL THE TERMS, BUT THAT'S A MAJOR ARTERY AND RIGHT, AND, AND YOU KNOW, THE STATE LOOKS AT IT AND SAYS, NAH, THAT'S A LITTLE TOO LANE ROAD.
I THINK IT'S ALL, YOU KNOW, JUST AN EXAMPLE.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S THE ONE.
AND THE SAME WITH THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE RUNOFF WATER, THE OUS SURFACE.
IS THAT DRIVEN BY STATE REGULATIONS AND GOVERNMENT REALLY? CAN WE SAY, HEY, THAT DOESN'T FIT FOR US.
IT IT MAY, BUT I'M JUST SAYING, DO WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY IT DOESN'T FIT FOR US? YOU ABSOLUTELY.
YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY.
AND, AND WE, WE WILL, WE WILL COVER THAT IN SEPTEMBER 4TH AND SEPTEMBER 18TH AFTER THE ABSOLUTE LATEST THAT WE HAVE TO OKAY, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO DO.
SO WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT? NO, THAT'S ABOUT IT.
FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, PLEASE.
YOU'RE GONNA SEND US THIS PRIORITY LIST? YES.
YOU WANT US TO RANK THAT LIST? I'M SENDING YOU A LIST.
UM, UM, NO THAT YOU, YOU, I WANT YOU TO SET YOUR PRIORITIES.
NOW WE CAN DO THIS ONE OF TWO WAYS.
WE CAN MAKE THIS A GOOGLE DOCUMENT THAT WE ALL SHARE AND YOU EACH PUT YOUR OWN ONE IN THERE SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE PUT.
OR YOU CAN SEND ME YOUR OWN AND I'LL COMPILE IT.
I DON'T THINK WE'RE REALLY HIDING ANYTHING FROM YOU.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S HIDING.
I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, MIKE.
BUT IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO MAKE IT ONE COMPLETE, LIKE A SHAREABLE GOOGLE WORD DOCUMENT, HOWEVER GONNA DO IT.
IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, THEN WHAT? WE'LL DO I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE? I'M NOT SAYING YOU.
YOU KNOW, BUT I'M SAYING I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S HAVE ANYTHING TO, YOU KNOW, HIDE.
WELL JUST, I'LL GET ON THERE AND TYPE OTHER I KNOW YOU'RE GONNA MESS UP.
YOU'RE GONNA MESS UP MY FORMAT.
[02:00:01]
MY FORMATTING DRIVES ME INSANE.UM, AND AGAIN, IF YOU, IF IF YOU READ THIS DOCUMENT AND YOU FIND GRAMMATICALLY I HAVE HAD NO EDITOR ON THIS.
I MEAN OBVIOUSLY THIS IS MY WRITING.
I'M GONNA HAVE CHERYL SIT DOWN, PROBABLY PATTY, SIT DOWN HERE, DO SOME EDITING ON IT BECAUSE AGAIN, IT IT'S MY WRITING AND I NEED TO HAVE SOMEONE ELSE LOOK AT IT TO MAKE SURE I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, LEAVING A SENTENCE HANGING OUT THERE.
SO IF YOU SEE ANYTHING IN THERE THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FROM A SENTENCE STANDPOINT, PLEASE SHOOT ME AN EMAIL AND JUST SAY PAGE 43, THE SECOND SENTENCE FROM THE LEFT.
YOU KNOW, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN HERE.
UNFORTUNATELY, I'M NOT GOOD AT THAT EITHER, SO I PROBABLY WON'T BE DOING IT.
SO THAT'S NOT ONE OF MY STRONG POINTS.
AND BELIEVE ME, MY, MY TEACHER WIFE WHO IS A, WELL, IF YOU WANT AN ENGLISH MAJOR, SHE QUESTIONS ME ALL THE TIME.
IF, IF YOU WANT TO HAND IT TO HER AND HAVE HER DO IT, I, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THAT.
YOU WOULDN'T WANT HER TO DO IT BECAUSE SHE'LL PICK EVERY YOU
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
NEXT AGENDA ON THE FOURTH AS WE TALKED ABOUT, WE'LL HAVE ONE 40 WHITAKER REDEVELOPMENT ON THERE AND 7 81 SOUTH ROAD TRAP, SOUTH TRAP ROAD SEVEN LOT SUBDIVISION.HAVE YOU SEEN THOSE BEFORE? NO, THOSE ARE BOTH BRAND NEW TENTATIVE SKETCH.
UM, THEY'VE BEEN QUEUED UP SINCE THE MIDDLE OF JULY.
UM, BUT THIS IS THEIR FIRST PRESENTATION.
THIS IS THEIR FIRST PRESENTATION.
THEY'RE OFFICIAL APPLICATIONS.
UM, AND THEN SEPTEMBER 18TH WE HAVE AMELIA STREET THAT'S COMING BACK.
UM, ANOTHER CONTROVERSIAL YES.
AND 4 25 SOUTH MENNONITE ROAD.
4 25 SOUTH MENNONITE ROAD, THE NYLON SUBDIVISION.
I KNOW YOU, YOU RECENTLY WEIGHED IN ON YOUR RECOMMENDATION.
THEY WENT TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND, AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND AT THAT MEETING THEY PRESENTED A CUL-DE-SAC PLAN.
I DON'T HAVE IT QUICKLY, SO I CAN'T SHOW IT TO YOU.
YOU MEAN THE DEVELOPER PROPOSED? THE DEVELOPER SHOWED THE PLAN.
THEY CHANGED SOMETHING AND MADE IT, THEY MADE THE CUL-DE-SAC, SO THEY WITHDREW THEIR NINE LOTS OF DIVISION WITH THE THROUGH ROAD OUT TO THE TRACK ROAD AND NOW THEY'RE, WE'RE PUTTING FORWARD THE CUL-DE-SAC PLAN.
I WILL EMAIL 'EM TO YOU TOMORROW BECAUSE YOU SHOULD SEE IT OBVIOUSLY BEFORE THE MEETING WHERE IT'S KIND OF A LITTLE BIT OF A RUSH JUST BECAUSE THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN QUEUED UP.
BUT WE'RE GONNA PUT THEM ON FOR SEPTEMBER 18TH.
IT SHOULD BE FAIRLY, FAIRLY QUICK.
UH, YOU KNOW, I, I'M RUNNING OUT OF, I'M RUNNING OUT OF WEDNESDAYS.
SO I MEAN IT, WE CAN ADD, I DON'T LIKE BEING HERE TILL NINE OR 10 O'CLOCK.
CAN WE ADD WEDNESDAY ONE ON TO THE MONTH? WOULDN'T THAT BE FUN? YEAH.
CAN WE ADD WEDNESDAY? YEAH, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT.
LET'S GET THROUGH SEPTEMBER AND SEE.
I CAN'T NO, NO, NO, I'M NOT, BECAUSE I JUST DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE TIME IF AMELIA, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GOING TO, THIS IS GETTING DOWN TO THE NITTY GRITTY AND THAT'S NOT GONNA BE AN EASY ONE.
WELL AMELIA IS STILL TENTATIVE, SO IT IS STILL HIGH LEVEL.
UM, AND, AND I'M GONNA BE HAVING SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM BASED ON ALSO, JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, LOVER'S LANE WAS IN FRONT OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
NO VOTE WAS TAKEN ON THAT AT THIS POINT.
THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS OUT THERE, THE SAME QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAD, OBVIOUSLY YOU MADE THE RECOMMENDATION TO MOVING FORWARD.
THE BOARD WASN'T COMFORTABLE DOING THAT AT THIS POINT.
OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN WATCH THE MEETINGS AND SEE THEIR REACTION TO IT.
WELL, I DON'T MAKE MYSELF, YOU KNOW, HEY JEFF
SO, UM, THEY DID NOT MOVE THAT ON AND, AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, I, I CAN'T, THIS ISN'T CERTAINTY, BUT MY, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY'RE GONNA BE DOING SOME PRELIMINARY, A LOT OF THE PRELIMINARY ENGINEERING FOR THE, THAT THEY WOULD NORMALLY NEED FOR PRELIMINARY PLAN AND COMING BACK AND ASKING FOR PRELIMINARY TENTATIVE AT THE SAME TIME.
AND I'LL GET A LETTER FOR SAYING THAT AT SOME POINT IN TIME IF THAT'S THE DIRECTION THEY'RE GONNA GO.
UH, AND THEN OCTOBER, I JUST, I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, NOBODY WANTS TO BE HERE EVEN THIS LATE.
AND, AND, AND I THINK ONCE WE GET THE COMP PLAN OUTTA THE WAY, I THINK THE OTHER ONES WILL BE FAIRLY QUICK.
ELIA STREET, MAYBE NOT, BUT WE'RE GONNA SEE WHAT WE CAN DO WITH THAT.
UH, OCTOBER, WE'VE GOT 1201 SOUTH COLLEGEVILLE ROAD.
THAT'S THE QUEST DEVELOPMENT AND PARK HOUSE.
I'M NOT, I DIDN'T PUT DATES ON THAT FOR OCTOBER 4TH OR OCTOBER 18TH WOULD BE THE, THE SECOND MEETING.
I DIDN'T PUT THOSE ON INDIVIDUAL DATES YET.
I'M KIND OF WAITING TO SEE SORT OF HOW WE, HOW IT PLAYS OUT FROM A REVIEW STANDPOINT AND IN THE BACKGROUND WITH WHAT THE DEVELOPER WANTS TO DO.
IF THEY WANT TO BE ON AN AGENDA, IF THEY CAN BE ON AN AGENDA, PARK PASS WILL BE COMING BACK WITH THEIR TE TENTATIVE.
ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE OCTOBER 2ND, NINTH, 16TH.
WE SHOULD, SO ABSOLUTE WORST COMES TO WORST.
WE CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO A, TO TO THE BOARD ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ON OCTOBER 2ND.
THANK YOU FOR POINTING THAT OUT.
THAT IS, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
SO THAT'S SORT OF MY ABSOLUTE FAIL SAFE.
YOU'RE GONNA SEND US THIS PRIORITY LIST OR WHATEVER YOU WANNA CALL IT, BUT SHOULD YOU KNOW THIS, IS THIS THE DOCUMENT THAT IF EVERYTHING'S PERFECT, THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE GONNA SUBMIT? SO WE
[02:05:01]
SHOULD READ THIS TO THE WHOLE DOCUMENT? YEAH, YOU SHOULD READ THAT WHOLE DOCUMENT.UM, IT, IT'S NOT GONNA LOOK LIKE THAT.
THAT'S, I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I MEAN THE GIST OF IT HERE.
THAT'S THE GUTS OF THE DOCUMENT, HOW IT LOOKS IN THE MAPS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UNDERSTAND LABELING ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ARE HIGHLIGHTED AND IT, IT IS NOT WORTH IT TO DO AT THIS LEVEL BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST CHASING YOUR TAIL WITH FORMATTING.
I WANT THE CONTENT AND I WANT THE, THE GUTS OF IT TO BE UNDERSTOOD.
SO WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD FAMILIARIZE THIS WITH THIS DOCUMENT.
I WENT THROUGH THE HOUSING AND WE'VE GONE THROUGH THE, THE DEMOGRAPHICS, WE'VE GONE THROUGH THE TRAFFIC AND THEN ALL THAT STUFF.
SO IT'S THINGS YOU SHOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH AND PROBABLY AS YOU READING YOU'LL PROBABLY REMEMBER, BUT THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF TIME BETWEEN SOME OF THOSE THINGS.
WE SHOULD RE-FAMILIARIZE OURSELVES.
WELL, ENVIRONMENTAL I COUNCIL ON THE 18TH, SO THE NEXT, NEXT MONTH.
AND JUST AS A POINT OF ORDER, BILL KNOWS THIS.
I, YOU WEREN'T ON EMAILS, BUT THERE'S, WE HAVE BEEN FOR THE LO FOR THE LOCAL CLIMATE ACTION PLAN THAT WE'RE MOVING FORWARD WITH FOR THE, WE'VE BEEN ASSIGNED OUR STUDENTS AND I THINK WE'RE MEETING NEXT WEEK, WEDNESDAY, I THINK IT IS, NEXT WEDNESDAY.
I I I, WE MIGHT HAVE TWO MEETINGS IN A MONTH.
I DON'T DO ANY TWO MEETINGS IN A WEEK.
I DON'T REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO ANYTHING ELSE EXCEPT FOR THOSE TWO MEETINGS.
SO I'LL CATCH UP TO THAT AND I'LL LET EVERYBODY KNOW WHEN THAT MEETING IS.
THAT'S MORE OF JUST ADMINISTRATIVE SIDE OF THE MEETING, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE MOVING FORWARD ON THE LOCAL CLIMATE ACTION PLAN.
WELL, CAN I SAY SOMETHING ABOUT EEAC? YEAH, WE DO THAT NOW.
WELL, I I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND BILL YOUR EMAIL ON THAT, THAT CONFERENCE CALL OR WHATEVER THAT WAS, I MEAN I WAS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE LOGISTICS OF THAT.
WELL THE REASON I FORWARDED THAT IS IT, IT WAS A GROUP OF HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS WHO GOT TOGETHER TO DISCUSS, UH, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT.
BUT WAS IT IN THIS TOWNSHIP OR JUST ACROSS THE STATE? IT WAS, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.
IT WAS HOSTED BY, UH, CHESTER COUNTY PLANNING.
I DON'T WANNA BORE THESE PEOPLE WITH THAT, SO I UNDERSTAND.
I JUST, I JUST, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET ACROSS HERE.
I DON'T WANNA HOLD THESE PEOPLE ANYMORE.
WELL, I'M TRYING TO WATCH THE VIDEO.
I'M GONNA TRY TO DO, WHEN I CAN'T SLEEP TONIGHT, I'M GONNA WATCH THAT VIDEO.
UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO UH, CLOSE THE MEETING.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE CLOSE.
ALRIGHT, JERRY, YOU MAKE A MOTION.
YOU LIKE A SECOND? NICOLE HAS SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR A AYE, YOU ADJOURNED.