[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:03]
OKAY, I HAVE A CALL TO ORDER THE, UH, JUNE 19TH, 2024 MEETING OF THE UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION.
[ MOTION TO APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA]
WILL BE TO APPROVE THE AGENDA, WHICH IS IN FRONT OF US.SO, UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT.
WE HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT, YEAH, I'LL SAY IT.
I'M, BEFORE WE GET TO PUBLIC COMMENT, I GOT SOME BAD NEWS.
IF YOU ARE HERE FOR THE, UH, BURG BAPTIST MISSION FIRST MEETING.
THEY CALLED JEFF EARLIER TODAY OR LATE YESTERDAY AND SAID THAT THEY WERE PULLING THEMSELVES OUT OF THE AGENDA.
SO, UH, IF YOU STILL WANT TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT, I'LL TAKE, WE'LL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENTS STARTING NOW, BUT WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.
SO IF YOU WANNA MAKE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS, YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME UP AND, YOU KNOW, STATE YOUR CASE AND, UH, WE'LL TAKE THOSE.
IF NOT, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE HERE.
[ APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON June 19, 2024]
TO THE LOVER'S LANE, UH, APPLICATION.UH, IT'S BEEN ON OUR AGENDA FOR A LONG TIME.
WE'VE BEEN MOVING IT SLOWLY ALONG.
AND I GUESS, ALLISON, YOU'RE HERE TO REPRESENT.
ALLISON'S OUR OWN BEHALF OF, UH, GENERAL HANCOCK, UH, ALLISON, ONE SECOND.
I, I JUST WANTED TO, UH, MAKE SURE I PUT IT INTO THE RECORD.
UH, WHEN I FOUND OUT THAT THE APPLICANT WAS GENERAL HANCOCK PARTNERSHIP, UH, OUR FIRM DOES DO WORK WITH GENERAL HANCOCK.
UM, I HAVEN'T HAD ANY INVOLVEMENT IN THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT.
UM, I'M JUST CHECKED WITH THE APPLICANT THAT THEY ARE, UH, THEY'RE OKAY WITH ME REPRESENTING THE PLANNING COMMISSION AT THIS TIME.
UH, BUT, UH, WE'LL ULTIMATELY BE UP TO THE COURT, SO NOTED.
WE, WE DO NEED YOUR ADVICE HERE, SO THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
UH, AND WE WILL, IT'S WELL NOTED.
UM, SO, UH, LIKE I WAS SAYING, I I, I'M REPRESENTING GENERAL HANCOCK PARTNERSHIP ENTERPRISES, LLC IN CONNECTION, UM, WITH THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY THAT YOU'RE SEEING UP HERE, UM, ON THE SCREEN TONIGHT, THIS PROPERTY'S ADDRESS IS 7 6 5 SOUTH COLLEGEVILLE ROAD.
HOWEVER, I THINK SORT OF COLLOQUIALLY IT'S BEEN REFERRED TO AS THE LOVER'S LANE SUBDIVISION.
UM, LOVER'S LANE IS SHOWN ON THIS PLAN AS WELL, AND IT'S SORT OF ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PLAN.
WELL, I GUESS ANYWAY, IT'S ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PLAN AND, UM, THIS PROPERTY IS APPROXIMATELY NINE ACRES.
UM, AND AS YOU NOTED, ORIGINALLY BEFORE MY INVOLVEMENT IN THIS PROJECT, UM, THE APPLICANT BROUGHT A SKETCH PLAN TO THIS PLANNING COMMISSION APPROXIMATELY TWO YEARS AGO, UM, FOR, UH, POTENTIAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS PROPERTY.
UM, THE PROPERTY IS ZONED R TWO RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS AND THAT PERMITS SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DWELLINGS BY RIGHT.
UM, THE PROPOSAL THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN WOULD PROPOSE TO SUBDIVIDE THE PROPERTY INTO NINE, UH, OR SORRY, INTO 11 SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED LOTS.
UM, THERE WOULD ALSO BE, UM, A PARCEL OF OPEN SPACE THAT WOULD U BE UTILIZED FOR STORM STORMWATER MANAGEMENT.
UH, THE ROAD CONFIGURATION THAT'S SHOWN ON THIS PLAN, UH, WOULD EXTEND AMANDA LANE FROM SOUTH COLLEGEVILLE ROAD TO LOVER'S LANE.
UM, AND SO THAT WOULD BE OFFERED FOR DEDICATION TO THE TOWNSHIP IN THIS INSTANCE, UM, THROUGH THE SKETCH PLAN PROCESS PREVIOUSLY, AS WELL AS REVIEWS BY THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, THE CONFIGURATION THAT YOU'RE SEEING TONIGHT, UM, WAS DEVELOPED BASED ON THE BEST BEING THE BEST OPTION TO ALLOW ACCESS TO THE SITE WITHOUT CREATING MULTIPLE DIFFERENT DRIVEWAY ACCESS POINTS TO THIS PROPERTY FROM THE ROADS, THE EXISTING ROAD NETWORK SURROUNDING IT TODAY, UM, THERE IS ONE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DWELLING ON THE PROPERTY TODAY THAT WOULD BE DEMOLISHED.
UM, AND A NEW HOUSE WOULD BE CONSTRUCTED ON ONE OF THE LOTS, GENERALLY IN THAT AREA, THAT NEW LOT TAKING ACCESS FROM THE NEW ROADWAY RATHER THAN SEPARATELY LIKE IT DOES TODAY FROM LOVER'S LANE.
COULD YOU POINT OUT THAT SURE.
IF I CAN GET THIS TO ACTUALLY, MAYBE I'LL JUST WALK OVER FOR, FOR WHATEVER REASON THAT LINE 10 IN THE BOTTOM.
[00:05:01]
THIS IS THE EXISTING HOUSE THAT TAKES, IT'S ORIENTED THE OPPOSITE WAY.SO THAT WOULD BE DEMOLISHED IN A NEW HOUSE BE CONSTRUCTED, THAT WOULD THEN BE ORIENTED INTERNAL TO THE SITE WHILE YOU'RE POINTING THINGS OUT.
COULD YOU POINT OUT WHERE THE CEMETERY IS? THE CEMETERY, WE HAVE TO SCROLL BACK UP.
SO THE CEMETERY IS AT THE TOP OF THE PLAN, UM, WHERE OUR ROAD CONNECTS.
THE CEMETERY IS ON THE LEFT SIDE, UH, AS YOU'RE FACING THIS PLAN.
UM, AND ORIGINALLY THE ROAD CONFIGURATION.
I'LL ALSO NOTE WE WENT TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD IN, UH, TO OBTAIN SPECIAL EXCEPTION APPROVAL.
THIS PROPERTY DOES HAVE STEEP SLOPES ON IT, AND WHAT'S PERMITTED HERE TODAY IS PERMITTED BY SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
THAT SPECIAL EXCEPTION WAS OBTAINED, UM, IN, UH, 2023.
AND, UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS BROUGHT UP DURING THE COURSE OF THOSE HEARINGS, UH, WAS THE FACT THAT WE ORIGINALLY HAD THIS ROAD CONFIGURATION SLIGHTLY ENCROACHING ON THE CEMETERY LOT, WHICH WOULD'VE NEEDED, UM, EASEMENT RELIEF FROM THE CEMETERY.
THIS WAS REORIENTED TO PULL IT OFF THE PROPERTY.
UM, AND THE INTENT HERE IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS ROAD CONFIGURATION, UM, IS ACCEPTABLE WITHOUT NEEDING ANY OFFSITE RIGHTS AWAY OR IMPACTS ON THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.
REFRESH MY MEMORY, EL THERE, SHOW THAT 10 11, UH, WATS 11, 10 AND NINE, NO ACCESS FROM LOVER'S LANE ALL BE COMING OFF OF AMANDA RIGHT IN THE PROCESS DRIVE.
SO THIS, THIS CONFIGURATION AS IT EXISTS TODAY, I KNOW THAT SOME OF YOU WERE ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION BEFORE, SOME OF YOU WERE NOT.
UM, THE, THE PRIOR SKETCH HAD SHOWN MULTIPLE ACCESS POINTS.
THIS ALL WOULD ACCESS ALL OF THESE LOTS WOULD ACCESS FROM THE NEW WEST AMANDA LANE AS SHOWN ON THE PLAN, AND THAT SHARED DRIVEWAY AND THAT SHARED DRIVEWAY WOULD ALLOW THAT TO OCCUR SO THAT THOSE LOTS ON THE SORT OF EASTERN SIDE OF THE PROPERTY, I'LL CALL IT, UM, WOULD NOT BE ACCESSING DIRECTLY ONTO LOVE'S LANE.
SO YOU DON'T SEE ANY, UH, MAJOR, I'LL USE THAT TERM, UH, DISRUPTION AT LOVE'S LANE? THAT'S CORRECT.
SO WE DO HAVE, UH, OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER PETE ZA HERE.
BUT, UM, GIVEN THE LOW VOLUME OF THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT, NUMBER ONE, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT LARGE TRIP GENERATION.
AND NUMBER TWO, THE INTENT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE LOTS WOULD BE ACCESSING FROM MAN LANE, A MANDOLINE WOULD BE STOCK CONTROLLED AT ITS INTERSECTION, UH, WITH, UH, SOUTH COLLEGE HILL ROAD.
AND THEN THE LOVER'S LANE, UM, CONFIGURATION IS PROPOSED TO BE ANWAY STOP.
AND WE HAVE TAKEN A LOOK AT THAT.
I WILL SAY WE, I WILL NOTE WE HAVE TWO REVIEW LETTERS, ONE FROM GILMORE ASSOCIATES DATED MAY 31ST, 2024, AND ONE FROM BOWMAN DATED MAY 31ST, 2024 AS WELL.
UM, IN THE REVIEW LETTER FROM BOWMAN, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF NOTES PARTICULARLY ABOUT, UM, THE ACCESS AND CONFIGURATION AT LOVER LOVER'S LANE.
UM, AND TPD, THE TRAFFIC ENGINEERING FIRM FOR THE PROJECT HAS DONE, UM, WARRANTS FOR STOP CONTROLS AND HAVE DETERMINED THAT, UH, AN ALLWAY STOP IS WARRANTED AT THAT INTERSECTION.
WHAT ABOUT THE STEEP SLOPE? I THINK YOU SAID YOU GOT THE ZONING APPROVAL.
WHAT, WHAT, WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT? WHAT'S THE PLAN FOR THAT OR, SO, UM, IN TERMS OF THERE STEEP SLOPES, AS YOU KNOW, YOUR ORDINANCE, UM, DEFINES STEEP SLOPES AS ANYTHING THAT'S 15% OR GREATER.
UM, AND SO AT THE TIME THAT WE SOUGHT AND OBTAINED THIS APPROVAL, UM, YOU ARE, YOU WERE ALLOWED TO DO THE ACTUAL LOTS AS WELL AS LOT AREAS, UM, SANITARY AND STORM SEWERS AND THE ROADWAY, UM, WITHIN STEEP SLOPES.
AND THERE IS A LARGE BAND OF STEEP SLOPES, AS YOU CAN SEE THAT SORT OF RUNS THROUGH, UM, THE MIDDLE OF THE SITE.
THERE ARE SOME SLOPES THAT ARE SHOWING UP.
IT'S THAT THAT GRAY BAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SITE, THERE ARE SOME DARK, DARKER POCKETS.
THOSE ARE 25% OR GREATER, BUT YOUR ORDINANCE REGULATES EVERYTHING BASED ON 15% OR GREATER.
SO, UM, WE DID NEED TO GO TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, UM, FOR THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION APPROVAL, WHICH WAS, WHICH WAS GRANTED.
AND THERE ARE SEVERAL CONDITIONS OF THAT APPROVAL, UM, THAT REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, THE MAIN TOPIC OF CONVERSATION DURING THOSE HEARINGS AND TESTIMONY RELATED TO STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, WHICH OF COURSE WE'RE AT TENNIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, WILL BE DOING, YOU KNOW, FULL ENGINEERING AND AS, AS WE WOULD MOVE TO PRELIMINARY.
BUT THE ZONING HEARING BOARD DID IMPOSE SEVERAL CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S AN HOA HERE THAT'S MAINTAINING ADEQUATE RESERVES, UM, OPERATING THEIR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FACILITIES APPROPRIATELY.
UM, AND MY CLIENT WILL, OF COURSE, ADHERE WITH THOSE REQUIREMENTS AND CONDITIONS.
TELL US, TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS DEVELOPMENT.
I MEAN, WHAT SIZE HOUSES YOU PUT THERE AND WHAT, WHAT'S THE PRICE RANGE, WHAT'S YOUR CLIENT
[00:10:01]
TELL? SURE.SO, UM, BEN GOLDER, WHO'S HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT, CAN GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF THAT INFORMATION.
UH, BEN GOLDBERG, UH, HERE ON BEHALF OF GENERAL HANCOCK PARTNERSHIP AS WELL.
UM, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, UH, AT THIS POINT, UM, WE ARE ONLY LOOKING AT THE SUBDIVISION.
WE WOULD END UP, UH, SELLING THE PROJECT TO A HOME BUILDER AT A LATER TIME.
UH, BUT WE HAVE DONE SOME, UH, MARKET ANALYSIS AND THE SIZE LOTS THAT WE HAVE HERE ARE FAIRLY LARGE.
UM, AND SO WE WOULD ENVISION 2,500 TO 5,000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSES, UM, IN THE, UM, UH, EASILY OVER $700,000 PLUS RANGE.
SO THIS WOULD BE A MATURE BUYER, PROBABLY POTENTIALLY SECOND HOME.
QUESTIONS ON FROM THE BOARD? UH, I HAVE ONE, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WOULD BE MORE FOR ALLISON, BUT, UH, JUST THE, UH, THE SHARED DRIVEWAY IS JUST SHOWN AS AN EASEMENT RIGHT NOW.
IS IT, THE INTENT THERE IS THAT IS NOT AS, WOULD BE BUILT AS WIDE AS AMANDA BE BUILT LIKE A, A RESIDENTIAL DRIVEWAY WOULD? UM, THAT'S CORRECT.
SO AMANDA WEST AMANDA IS REQUIRED TO HAVE A 50 FOOT WIDE RIGHT OF WAY AND A CART WAY IS SHOWN AT 32 FEET WIDE.
THE DRIVEWAY ITSELF IS SHOWN AT 20 FEET WIDE, WHICH I BELIEVE IS YOUR MINIMUM FIRE LANE REQUIREMENT IN THE TOWNSHIP.
SO THE FIRE CHIEF HAS LOOKED AT THIS AND IS OKAY WITH IT.
WE KNOW TYPICALLY THE FIRE CHIEF DOESN'T, THE FIRE MARSHAL DOESN'T START REVIEWING UNTIL PRELIMINARY.
CAN YOU GO BACK OVER THE TRACK IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED? SURE.
SO I'LL HAVE PETE ZA GIVE YOU THE OVERVIEW OF WHAT THIS PAPER POST, I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT THE SPEED THAT PEOPLE COME DOWN.
SO, UH, PETE ZA TRAFFIC PLANNING AND DESIGN.
SO ALONG, UM, COLLEGEVILLE ROAD, WE'RE GONNA BE WIDENING ALONG THE FRONTAGE TO PROVIDE FOR AN EIGHT FOOT SHOULDER.
AND WE'RE ALSO GONNA BE WHINING TO PROVIDE FOR A, A DESAL LANE INTO A VAN LANE.
THOSE WOULD BE THE IMPROVEMENTS IN ADDITION TO THE, THE, UM, HALLWAY STOP OF IT.
S LANE, A DESAL LANE COMING DOWN THE DUMP, CORRECT.
SO IT'S ABOUT, I I THINK IT WAS A HUNDRED, A HUNDRED FOOT DESAL LANE WITH, YOU KNOW, THE APPROPRIATE TAPER.
UM, AND THEN IT'S KIND OF GONNA LOOK LIKE THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET.
SO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET IS WIDER, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A WIDER SHOULDER.
IT'S GONNA BE THAT WIDE ON OUR SIDE OF THE STREET AS WELL.
WHAT ABOUT THAT, ANTHONY, IF YOU LOOKED AT THAT? UH, YES WE HAVE.
SO IT WAS ONE OF THE, WHEN WE INITIALLY STARTED THE CONVERSATIONS, IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS WE STARTED LOOKING AT, UM, IS, UH, ROOM FOR MANEUVERABILITY AND, UH, YOU KNOW, ACCOMMODATING LARGER VEHICLES.
YOU, UM, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL DELIVERY VEHICLES INTO THE ACCESS AND THE DOWNHILL AND THE SPEEDS.
UM, WE WERE IN AGREEMENT THAT ONE WAS NEEDED TO DESAL LANE INTO THE ACCESS AND THEY'RE PROVIDING THAT WHICH SATISFACTORY TO US.
'CAUSE HAVING A SINGLE LANE AND HAVING PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, MAKE RIGHT TURNS OUTTA A SINGLE THROUGH LANE SOUTHBOUND IN THAT AREA WAS NOT THE BEST IDEA.
SO, UM, THE DESAL LANE IS, WAS ACCEPTABLE FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE.
NOW ARE YOU GONNA ALLOW A LEFT HAND TURN OUT OF, UH, AMANDA ONTO, WELL, A LEFT TURN WILL BE FULL, FULL ACCESS PROPOSED THERE AND THAT, THAT INTERSECTION TO DO WEST AMANDA LINES DIRECTLY ACROSS WITH EXISTING AMANDA LANE.
I AGREE THAT I HOPE SOMETIMES PRETTY FAST GET SOME TRUCKS TOO
I WILL SAY ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE COMMENTS THAT ANTHONY MADE IN, IN HIS, IN HIS, UM, REVIEW LETTER WAS TO PROVIDE A SPEED STUDY, WHICH, WHICH WE HAVE DONE AND WILL BE INCLUDED IN, IN, IT'S INCLUDED IN THE STUDY THAT WILL BE SUBMITTED TO, TO THE PULLMAN FOR THE REFER REVIEW.
AND THEN WE ALSO LOOKED AT SITE DISTANCE AND WE BASED THE SITE DISTANCE OFF THE, OFF OF THE 85TH PERCENTILE SPEED THAT WE FOUND, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN, THAN THE ACTUAL SPEED LIMIT.
I THINK IT'S 50 MILES AN HOUR.
SO WE BASED OUR SITE DISTANCE CALCULATIONS OFF OF 50 MILES AN HOUR.
AND WE DO MEET THE, THE REQUIREMENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, DEPEND ON REQUIREMENTS FOR SITE DISTANCE.
I'M SURE I I I'M SURE YOU ARE.
I STILL CONCERNED ABOUT THE, THE STEEP SLOPES OF WHICH IT'S ALREADY GONE THROUGH THE ZONING, UM, 25%.
AND WE CHANGED, DIDN'T WE JUST RECENTLY DISCUSSED THIS AND WENT OVER, UM, SOME ISSUES WITH STEVE SLOPES AND
[00:15:01]
PEOPLE, THE AUDIENCE WERE VERY MUCH OPPOSED TO IT.NOW HERE WE HAVE ONE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US.
WELL, LET'S LET JEN, MAYBE JEN CAN SHED SOME LIGHT ON ALL THIS FOR US.
YEAH, AS ALLISON SAID, THE 10 SKETCH HAS BEEN HERE BEFORE.
I THINK THIS WAS THE FOURTH TIME WE HAD REVIEWED IT.
THEY'VE BEEN MAKING MODIFICATIONS ALL ALONG IN INPUT FROM STAFF AND CONSULTANTS AND, UM, AS ALLISON SAID, THEY'VE BEEN IN FRONT OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING JOE BRENAN ATTENDED THAT.
OH, IT WAS ERIC FRY ATTENDED THAT, UM, TO REPRESENT THE TOWNSHIP AND THE CONCERNS ON THAT.
AND THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THE CONDITIONS HAVE COME FROM.
SO THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE FUNDS TO CONTINUE THE MAINTENANCE OF THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT WAS A KEY COMPONENT OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD DECISION.
BUT DOESN'T BMP TAKE CARE OF THAT ALREADY ON EVERY SUBDIVISION? YOU DO HAVE A BMP OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT WITH EVERY DEVELOPER.
THIS IS BELT AND SUSPENDERS SPECIFIC FOR THIS SITE BASED ON THE ZONING HEARING BOARD DECISION.
I THINK THIS GOES A LITTLE BIT FARTHER IN TERMS OF A CAP REQUIRING A CAPITAL RESERVE REQUIRING THEM TO PROVE TO US EVERY SIX MONTHS, EVERY, AT LEAST EVERY SIX MONTHS THAT THEY HAVE THAT CAPITAL RESERVE IN PLACE.
UM, AND THAT WE CAN, AND I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE OM AGREEMENT, BUT I, IN, IN THOSE REQUIREMENTS, WE CAN ALSO GO IN AT ANY TIME AND INSPECT IT FROM A TOWNSHIP'S PERSPECTIVE.
AND, UM, THE MAINTENANCE, EXCUSE ME, ALSO, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, JEFF? YOU COULD INSPECT IT.
IT MEANS THAT WE CAN, WE CAN SEND JEN'S FIRM OR OUR OWN PUBLIC WORKS FIRM COMP, OUR OWN PUBLIC WORKS IN THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE WALL, THAT THE, THE, THE FACILITY, THE STORMWATER FACILITY IS OPERATING AS IT SHOULD, THAT THE HOA HAS BEEN TAKING CARE OF IT, THAT THEY'RE CLEANING IT OUT AS NECESSARY.
THAT, THAT ANY SORT OF OBSTRUCTION IS, IS TAKEN CARE OF.
WE HAVE PERMISSION TO ENTER AT ANY POINT IN TIME.
AND IF IT'S NOT BEING TAKEN CARE OF, IS THERE A REMEDY FOR THAT? WE CAN FIX IT.
AND WE, THE HOA AND ALSO I'LL SAY THAT THE ZONING HEARING BOARD DECISION ALSO REQUIRED THE HOA TO MAINTAIN AN ESCROW AND AMOUNT OF TWO YEARS OF MAINTENANCE BASED ON ESTIMATES FOR WORK PROVIDED DURING LAND DEVELOPMENT.
SO WHEN WE GET TO THE FULL DESIGN, WE'LL ALSO PROVIDE THE ESTIMATES.
SO IN ADDITION TO THE CAPITAL RESERVE, THEY'RE ALSO REQUIRED TO HAVE CASH ON HAND.
THAT'S A SEPARATE ESCROW ACCOUNT.
AND JUST PERSONALLY, JOE, WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR FEELING? THEIR INTENT IS SKETCH.
THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANY CALCULATIONS AND SUCH.
UM, AS THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN, THE 50 YEAR POST NEEDS TO BE REDUCED TO THE TWO YEAR PRE.
SO EVEN IF THEY WENT IN THERE AND PAVED THIS ENTIRE SITE, THE AMOUNT OF WATER THAT CAN LEAVE IN THE FINAL CONDITION IS EQUIVALENT TO THE TWO YEAR PRE-DEVELOPMENT FLOW TODAY, NO MATTER WHAT THE SITE COVERAGE IS.
SO IT BEHOOVES THEM TO NOT PAY FOR THE SITE.
BECAUSE THEN THEY NEED A GINORMOUS FROM OUR MANAGEMENT CONTROL.
BUT, UM, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE FINAL COVERAGE IS, THEY'RE STILL HELD TO THAT PRE-DEVELOPMENT RATE.
AND JUST TO COMMENT ABOUT THE STEEP SLOPES AND WHAT WE WENT THROUGH AND WE ADOPTED A REVISION OF THE STEEP SLOPES, BUT IT, IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THIS DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE THEY WERE ALREADY THROUGH THE PROCESS, HAD THE APPLICATION IN RIGHT.
WELL BEFORE WE, AND I AM SURE WE TALKED ABOUT IT AT THE TIME.
WE, THAT, THAT IT DID NOT APPLY TO THIS AS CORRECT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ALLISON OR IRV BAND OF MARY MEN? HOW ABOUT FROM THE COMMENTS FROM THE, UH, GALLERY? ANYBODY WANT TO COMMENT ON THIS ISSUE? NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE.
SEAN CONNOLLY, COLLEGE OF PENNSYLVANIA.
EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS WHO I AM.
SO, YOU KNOW, I'M SITTING HERE LISTENING TO EVERYBODY.
YOU KNOW, I, I THINK THIS GENTLEMAN HAD, MIGHT HAVE A LITTLE CONCERN, THIS WOMAN, YOU KNOW, BUT YOU HAD ALL PEOPLE, LIKE YOU AREN'T GONNA INSPECT ANYTHING.
YOU AREN'T GONNA CHECK ANYTHING.
ACTUALLY, I HAVE A COPY OF THE FAILED INSPECTIONS THAT YOU GUYS COVERED UP AND FRAUDULENTLY SUBMITTED TO THE COUNTY.
AND I'M GONNA GIVE THAT OUT TO THE PUBLIC.
SO WHEN YOU SIT HERE AND TELL THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE GONNA INSPECT THEM OR BRING IN A PRIVATE COMPANY, JEFF, YOU'RE FULL OF CRAP.
OKAY? LIKE WHAT, WHAT'S, IT'S TIME TO LEAVE.
ACTUALLY, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU A COPY OF IT.
YOU CAN'T GET INSULTING AND YOU, I'M NOT INSULTING.
ACTUALLY, SEAN, THE CAMERAS ARE HERE.
WHAT RECORD? WHAT'S YOUR CONNECTION HERE? MY, MY CONNECTION HERE, TOM, THANK YOU.
SO IF YOU PULL THE FILE FOR MY HOME, OKAY.
ALLISON ZOROS, A DEFENDANT WITH TOLL BROTHERS.
SHE'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE NAMED IN A FEDERAL LAWSUIT ALONG WITH JOE AND SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE IN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR MONTHS NOW.
OKAY? BUT THERE'S SAFETY ISSUES.
I WAS GONNA BUY A PROPERTY IN CHESTER SPRINGS SEVERAL WEEKS AGO WITH THE GREAT, SIMILAR TO THIS, OKAY? THESE DEVELOPERS
[00:20:01]
DON'T CARE.MR. GOLDBERG'S GOT A LAWSUIT IN, WHAT IS IT? UPPER PER TOWNSHIP THAT HE SUED THE TOWNSHIP FOR SOME DEI.
LIKE, AND YOU GUYS NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THAT YOU WORK FOR US, OKAY? AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
OKAY? LIKE, YOU GUYS SEEM TO FORGET THAT.
LIKE THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM.
LIKE, HE WANTS TO CALL THE POLICE.
THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS EVERY TIME I SHOW UP AND TELL THE PUBLIC THE TRUTH.
THIS GUY DOESN'T WORK FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
HE RUNS OUT OF THE TOWNSHIP OFFICE.
THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST LITERAL.
DON'T UNDERSTAND HIMSELF OUTTA VIDEO.
I LOOK AT YOU, YOU GOT A PONYTAIL.
IT'S, YOU NEED A BUSINESS SUIT.
HEY, X, AND YOU'RE GONNA BE ON TV LIKE I, I HOPE YOU ASSUME ME DO.
MY NAME'S JOHN MALLICK, 180 7 SPARES LANE.
UH, MY BROTHER AND I CO-OWN THE PROPERTY THAT'S ALONGSIDE OF THIS DEVELOPMENT.
UM, I WANT TO START BY ASKING A SINCERE QUESTION.
THERE'S, UH, THREE SETS OF BLUEPRINTS I HAVE HERE.
ONE FROM AUGUST 22, THE OTHER ONE'S SEPTEMBER OF 23.
ONE INCH EQUALS 40 FEET IS ACCURATE.
THE NEW PRINT, WHICH THIS IS BASED ON, IS NOT ACCURATE.
ONE INCH EQUAL WAS ABOUT 35 FEET PLUS OR MINUS.
WHAT PART OF THIS PRINT MIGHT UNDERSTAND TO BE CORRECT IF THE MASTER LEGEND ON WHICH THE MEASUREMENTS ARE BASED OFF IS INCORRECT? AND THE ANSWER FOR ME, I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK INTO THAT.
YEAH, WE, WE WOULD'VE TO LOOK AT THAT.
UM, CAN YOU TELL ME WHERE YOU GOT THE PLANS? I MEAN, IF THEY WERE WHERE I GOT THE PLAN WHERE THEY PRINTED FROM IS REGISTERED FOR HERE? NO, BUT I I'M JUST SAYING WHERE THEY LIKE PRINTED AS A COPY AND NOT PRINTED AT THE CORRECT SIZE.
HOLMES CUNNINGHAM, LLC, RIGHT? FULL SIZE PRINT.
OKAY, HERE'S THE ENGINEER SCALE.
NO, I, I BELIEVE IT WOULD WOULD'VE TO TAKE, WOULD ANY OF THE BOARD CARE TO SEE THE, ACTUALLY WHAT THIS SHOWS.
SO THERE'S THE ENGINEER'S RULE.
SO THAT'S THE PREMISE OF WHAT I'M SAYING HERE.
UM, ANYBODY ON THE BOARD KNOW WHAT A ION WALL IS? PLEASE EDUCATE US.
OKAY, WE'RE GONNA DO THAT RIGHT NOW.
LET ME START
AND THIS IS WHERE WE'RE HAVING THE FAILURE OF THAT.
THIS IS, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE GAON WALL RIGHT HERE.
IT'S ALONGSIDE OF OUR PROPERTY, WHICH IS RIGHT HERE.
THIS IS APPROXIMATELY 200 AND SOME FEET LONG.
YOU THINK ANY OF THAT PICTURE THAT YOU SEE THERE WILL RESTRAIN ANY WATER WHATSOEVER FROM THE STEEP SLOPE THAT ALL OF THIS DRAINS TO.
STORM WATER MANAGEMENT, NUMBER ONE, STORM WATER MANAGEMENT NUMBER TWO, THIS FLOWS DOWN THE HILL INTO HERE, INTO HERE, INTO THERE.
AND THIS IS THE RESTRAINING PART.
BUT BY THE WAY, THAT DOESN'T GO ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF MY PROPERTY HERE OR ALL THE WAY INTO MY PROPERTY THERE.
SO IF THIS, OH BY THE WAY, THERE'S NO ALCOHOL PIPE FROM HERE GOING TO ANYWHERE.
ONCE THAT POND FILLS COMPLETELY UP OF WATER, PREVIOUS BRICKS THAT I HAVE RIGHT THERE RENDERED BY THAT COMPANY, SHOW DETAILS FOR SILTS AND FOR OUTFLOW ON THE PREVIOUS SETS OF DRAWINGS.
WHAT WAS THAT? I WAS ASKING TO COME BACK TO THE MIC.
SO IF THE GION WALL DOESN'T REALLY RETAIN THE WATER, AS YOU CAN SEE BY THAT, IT'S A MESH.
IT'S A GALVANIZED WIRE BASKET, FULL ROCKS THAT'S BUILT ON COMMERCIAL STANDARDS ON 2 87 IN RIVERDALE, NEW JERSEY TO COMMERCIAL STANDARDS.
WHAT CHANCE DO I HAVE THAT THAT WALL THERE IS GONNA SUCCEED WHEN THAT WALL THERE IS PROFESSIONALLY ENGINEERED, DESIGNED AND INSTALLED AND IS ALREADY FAILING IN LESS THAN FIVE YEARS.
THE OTHER THING IS ON THE LAST, LET ME GET THE CORRECT NUMBER HERE.
SO WE GET THIS ON THE RECORD CORRECTLY HERE
[00:25:09]
ON PRINT NUMBER C3 ZERO.THEY'RE SHOWING A DRAIN PIPE OF SOME KIND DOWNHILL FROM THAT PARTICULAR IAN WALL WITH THE DRAINAGE PIPE GOING INTO, UH, STORM WATER MANAGEMENT.
NUMBER ONE, I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE THAT IN MY LIFE BEFORE.
AND I'VE DONE SOME REMEDIATION ON CONSIDERABLE STORM WATER BASINGS PREVIOUS TO THIS STORM MANAGEMENT NUMBER TWO IS GOING TO DRAIN INTO STORE MANAGEMENT NUMBER ONE.
BUT THAT WHOLE AREA THAT'S NOT BEING ENCOMPASSED BY THAT PARTICULAR RETAINING WALL IS GONNA ALLOW THAT MOISTURE AND THAT WATER TO GO RIGHT ONTO MY PROPERTY.
I WAS ASSURED IN PREVIOUS MEETINGS HERE THAT NO ADDITIONAL WATER WOULD ENTER MY PROPERTY MORE THAN WHAT IS ARRIVING THERE CURRENTLY IN ITS VEGETATED STATE.
WHAT ASSURANCE DO I HAVE THAT THAT WON'T BE THE CASE AFTER THIS DEVELOPMENT'S DONE? I HAVE NO CHOICE TO DO ANYTHING WITH THE TOWNSHIP.
ONCE THE BUILDER'S DONE, HE WALKS AWAY.
HOW DO I SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF THE WATER FLOWING UNDER MY PROPERTY? THERE ARE ALSO, BY THE WAY, PICTURES IN YOUR FILE FOR THE PREVIOUS MEETINGS WE HAD SHOWING WATER FLOODING DOWN MY DRIVEWAY, ICE COMING DOWN MY DRIVEWAY, ICE COMING ONTO SPARES LANE, WHICH IS TOWNSHIP PROPERTY.
OKAY? ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS? NORMAL RAINFALL, MR. MELLICK, LET'S HAVE YOU ON THE MIC.
IF, IF YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT I, I'M HAPPY TO HAVE YOU TALK ABOUT IT, BUT WE NEED YOU ON THE MIC AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
OKAY? I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE ANY COMMENT AT THIS POINT.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE CERTAINLY NOT EXPERTS.
WE'RE GONNA RELY ON THE ENGINEERS AND OUR OWN CONSULTING PEOPLE TO TELL US THIS IS WORKING.
AND UM, AT THIS POINT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF COMMENTS ABOUT AS FAR AS THE SCALE OF THE DRAWING.
I MEAN THE ENGINEER HAS TO CERTIFY THAT.
IF HE'S FALSELY CERTIFY, THEN IS A REAL BIG ISSUE.
YOUR PREVIOUS PRINTS ARE EXACTLY ACCURATE.
THREE, THESE ARE COPIES FROM AUGUST OF 22 AND SEPTEMBER OF 23.
WE, WE UNDERSTAND THEM AND WE'RE GONNA MAKE SURE THAT IT IS RIGHT.
WELL MY ISSUE IS WITH THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT BECAUSE I'M GONNA BE THE RECIPIENT OF THE FLOODING.
AND WE'VE ALREADY SHOWN YOU BY PHOTOS AND I'M ALREADY GETTING FLOOD WATER.
THANKS EVERYBODY FOR HAVING US.
UH, I'M THE OTHER MR. MALLICK.
WE'VE HAD THIS PROPERTY SINCE 1951 ON OUR FAMILY.
IT'S A LONG TIME, THAT PARTICULAR VIDEO.
SO I'M GONNA GO OUT OF MY TURN.
WHAT I WAS GONNA DO THAT VIDEO, IF YOU COULD PLAY IT, IT WAS IN A NORMAL RAINFALL.
ALL THAT WATER IS COMING FROM A FULLY EDUCATED PROPERTY, WHICH WE CALL LOVER'S LANE PROPERTY.
OKAY? SO YOU JUST TAKE, THAT'S A NORMAL RAINFALL.
THAT'S NOT EVEN AN EXAGGERATED RAINFALL.
THAT'S NOT FOUR INCHES IN AN HOUR.
THAT'S NOTHING ON ALL THAT WATER.
IN THE SUMMERTIME IT'S JUST WATER.
BUT IN THE WINTERTIME IT ICES.
SO NOT ONLY ICES OUR PROPERTY ICES OUR DRIVEWAY AND IT ICES SPARES LANE.
WELL THE TOWNSHIP DOESN'T EVEN SALT ALL SPARES LANE 'CAUSE THERE'S NO GOOD TURNAROUND THERE.
NOBODY'S PAYING US TO DO THAT.
YOU SHOULD PUT ANO ANOTHER VIDEO ON THIS ONE.
OKAY? THIS IS COMING FROM THAT PROPERTY.
A LITTLE BIT OF RAINFALL, REGULAR RAINFALL.
IT'S FULLY VEGETATED RIGHT NOW.
NOW YOU'RE GONNA ADD A ROAD, 11 HOUSES, ALL THE ROOFTOPS, SIDEWALK, CURB, STORM WATER MANAGEMENT, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
I THINK THIS IS SPARES LANE RIGHT HERE.
AND YOU CAN SEE ALL THE WATER RUNNING FROM SPARES LANE.
AND I'M GONNA DRIVE UP THE HILL AND YOU CAN SEE ALL THE WATER.
AND THIS IS THE SAME RAINFALL.
IT'S NOT A DIFFERENT DAY, IT'S A LOT OF WATER.
SO ALL THAT WATER ENDS UP HITTING THAT LITTLE TINY CREEK, WHICH ENDS UP MAKING ITS WAY AND MEANDERING DOWN THE LOWER MONTCLAIR AND EVENTUALLY INTO THE CANAL AND THE CHUCO RIVER.
HOWEVER, EVERYBODY ALONG THE WAY GETS AFFECTED.
OKAY? I HAVE A VIDEO ON MY PHONE TOO THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE OF A STORM WHERE IT OVER AROUND A CREEK, IT OVER AROUND A THREE FOOT DIAMETER PIPE THAT YOU HAVE CROSSING SPARES, LAYING STILL IN A FULLY VEGETATED STATE.
[00:30:01]
I'M GONNA GO BACK TO, WELL THANK YOU FOR THAT.SO THE ION WALL THAT HE'S PROPOSING, THERE IS NO OTHER ONE IN THE TOWNSHIP.
I HAVE AN EMAIL FROM MR. GRACE.
THEY CHECK WITH THE ENGINEERING FIRM THAT WAS OVER 40 YEARS IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
THERE IS NO OTHER ION WALL IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT DOESN'T HOLD BACK WATER.
SO WHAT IS MY RECOURSE? I'M ALREADY GETTING A LOT OF WATER.
SO ALL THOSE BLACK LINES, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS GONNA WORK THIS FAR.
YEAH, LEMME GET YOU BACK TO IT.
SO WE GOT OVER A THOUSAND FOOT OF RETAINING WALL ON THIS SITE.
A THOUSAND FEET BECAUSE OF STEEP SLOPE.
BUT WE'RE STILL GETTING ALL THAT WATER.
SOME OF THESE PROPERTIES HAVE 22, 24, 26 FOOT OF DIFFERENCE IN THE GRADE FROM THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY TO THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY.
THAT'S LIKE A THREE STORY BUILDING.
WHAT I MEAN, WHO WANTS THAT? WHERE'S ALL THAT WATER DUMP? WAIT A MINUTE.
IT'S GOING DOWN TO THAT ION WALL THAT DOESN'T HOLD WATER.
SO A VEHICLE OF 45 MILE AN HOUR ON LEVEL GROUND TRAVELS, 66 FEET A SECOND, 66 FEET A SECOND.
THERE WERE DIESEL LAYING, I BELIEVE WAS ABOUT 135 FEET.
BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT 'CAUSE THE SCALE'S INACCURATE.
SO THAT LEAVES ABOUT THREE SECONDS LESS COMING DOWN THE HILL AT MORE THAN 45 MILE AN HOUR TO MAKE THE RIGHT TURN ON AMANDA.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S SUFFICIENT.
YOU'RE ASKING FOR PROBLEMS WITH ACCIDENTS.
SOMEBODY'S GONNA GET KILLED THERE AND TO ALLOW A LEFT TURN OUTTA THAT TO GO UP THE HILL IS RIDICULOUS.
KNOW, I, I THINK WE, I THINK WE AGREE WITH THOSE CONCERNS AND WE'RE GONNA DEEP DIG DEEPER INTO THAT AS WE MOVE THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
I MEAN ALL, ALL THE COUPLE MINUTES, ALL THE STORM WATER FROM ROUTE 29.
AND I HAVE TO POINT THAT TO YOU 'CAUSE THIS WON'T WORK HERE.
YOU TALK LOUD SO THE SPEAKER PICKS YOU UP.
ALL THE STORM WATER HERE AND THERE IS A PRINT THAT SHOWS THE CATCH BASIN ALONG HERE THAT BLEED INTO THIS STORM WATER MANAGEMENT PLAN TOO.
WHY ARE THEY PICKING UP THE WATER FROM THIS ROAD TO PUT IN HERE? WHERE'S THE PIPE WORK FROM HERE TO ANYWHERE? THERE'S NO PIPE WORK SHOWN.
THERE'S NO DIAMETER PIPE WORK SHOWN.
THERE IS THE CATCH BASIN N 29 RIGHT HERE ALREADY.
SO WHY ARE WE GONNA TAKE THIS WATER FROM HERE TO PUT IT HERE SO WE GET IT ON OUR PROPERTY? CAN WE ALL HEAR THIS? YEAH.
AND THERE'S NO DETAIL ON THE PIPE.
THERE'S NO DIAMETER ON THE PIPE, THERE'S NO OUTFLOW SHOWING.
IT'S INCOMPLETE, RIGHT? WE VOTING ON SOMETHING THAT'S INCOMPLETE.
WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT VOTING ON POINT.
DO YOU, DO YOU, CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION? CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION? SURE.
DO YOU, IS THERE IN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY THAT AFTER ALL THIS IS DONE AND THEY DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THE CATCH BASINS AND WHATEVER, AND I'M NOT A CATCH BASIN EXPERT, BUT ASSUMING OUR PEOPLE ARE AND THEY'RE GONNA ADVISE US, CAN THIS BE FIXED? CAN IT BE BETTER THAN WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT? IS THAT A POSSIBILITY? I THINK SO.
WELL THEN WE JUST GOT NOT WITH A GION BALL.
OKAY, THAT'S A GOOD POINT OUT FOR US.
SO THERE'S NO DETAIL ON THE DEPTH OF THE BASINS.
I MEAN, I'M ASSUMING I HATE TO DO THAT.
THAT THAT'S GONNA BE CLEAR CUT.
SO ALL THAT VEGETATION'S GONE, ANYTHING THAT'S ABSORBING WATER NOW WILL NO LONGER BE THERE.
MR. MALLICK, JUST, JUST TO CLARIFY, THIS IS 10 SKETCH PLAN.
SO ALL WE'RE DOING IS SHOWING THE GENERAL AID, BUT I'M GONNA DEAL WITH THIS FOR LIFE, RIGHT? BUT I I JUST WANNA TRY TO EXPLAIN THERE'S GONNA BE TWO MORE STEPS FOR PRELIMINARY PLAN AND FINAL PLAN.
ARE THEY GONNA BE ACCURATE? THOSE WELL, YES.
ARE THEY GONNA BE ACCURATE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT ACCURATE? FIRST OF ALL, WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT THE ENGINEER CHECKS THAT IN SIGNS AND SEALS, BUT THEY WILL HAVE, WELL DIDN'T THEY CHECK THE LAST ONE? LET HER SPEAK MR. MEL.
[00:35:01]
THEY WILL HAVE, THEY WILL HAVE THE DETAILS REGARDING STORMWATER MANAGEMENT.THERE WILL BE DETAILED LANDSCAPING PLANS.
WE WILL HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR THE REMOVAL OF VEGETATION, THE PLANTING OF NEW VEGETATION.
SO THAT'S WHY THOSE PARTICULAR DETAILS ARE NOT SHOWN ON THIS PLAN.
A LOT OF TIMES TENTATIVE SKETCH PLANS THAT COME TO THIS BOARD ARE LITERALLY THE ONE SHEET THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW, NOT EVEN THE REST OF THE SHEETS WE HAVE IN THE SET, BUT THIS IS NOT THE FINAL APPROVAL.
THIS IS JUST A, I UNDERSTAND THAT SKETCH.
THERE WILL BE, I MEAN THERE WILL BE MORE, BUT THIS IS LIKE SWISS CHEESE.
THERE'S A LOT OF HOLES IN THIS PLANT.
AGAIN, IT'S JUST A SKETCH ONE.
IT'S NOT A FULLY ENGINEERED PLAN.
I A LONG WAY TO GO THROUGH THIS.
BUT YOU'RE GONNA MAKE A DECISION AND TAKE THIS TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS BASED ON WHAT YOU'RE SAYING HERE.
JUST GETTING A FEEL FOR THE LAND HERE.
ALL YOU BROUGHT UP SOME GOOD POINTS THAT WE'LL LOOK FOR IN THE FUTURE.
WELL, THERE'S MORE, BUT I'M GONNA GIVE MY TIME TO SOMEBODY ELSE.
IF THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE ACTUALLY, THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GOING.
I HAVE NO WAY PUTTING YOUR PHONE ON MY SCREEN.
UH, GOOD EVENING AND THANK YOU LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
AND YOU CAN EMAIL IT TO ME IF I GET THE EMAIL AND THE NEXT WHILE YOU'RE SPEAKING, I CAN PUT IT UP THERE, BUT I, YEAH, I CAN'T DO TWO THINGS AT ONE TIME.
AH, UH, GOOD EVENING LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
I, UH, LIVE AT 1 2 3 LOVERS LANE.
I'M DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PROJECT.
UM, UH, MY WIFE AND I ALSO OWN 2 0 4 FOURTH AVENUE AND TWO TEN FOURTH AVENUE.
UH, OVER THE, WE'VE HAD IT FOR GOING ON 40 YEARS NOW.
AND, UM, WE HAVE BEEN SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACTED BY, UH, FLOOD WATERS DOWN THERE.
UH, AND MR. MALICK HAS RAISED SEVERAL REALLY GOOD, UH, ISSUES WITH THE FACT OF THERE'S NO PIPE COMING IN, UH, OR UH, CONNECTING THE TWO OR A DISCHARGE THERE.
SO ONCE THAT RETENTION BASIN FILLS AND EVENTUALLY IT WILL, BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN THROUGH FLOYD IN IDA, YOU KNOW, AND A COUPLE OTHER TROPICAL STORMS THAT HAVE ALU THE UH, THE LOWER PART OF THE CREEK.
MY FIRST QUESTION TO YOU IS, WAS THERE ANY KIND OF LIKE, UH, IMPACT SURVEY AS TO A SPILL OVER AN OVER SPILL FROM THAT RETENTION BASIN AND HOW IT WILL AFFECT THE LOWER PROPERTIES DOWN BELOW? UH, THIS PROJECT HERE, 'CAUSE WE'RE AT A BOTTOM OF OVER'S LANE.
UM, UH, THE REASON BEING IS WE HAVE A CREEK THAT RUNS THROUGH OUR PROPERTY, BUT WE ONLY HAVE A 24 INCH RCP UH, REINFORCED CONCRETE PIPE.
THAT PERMITS THE WATER TO CONTINUOUSLY FLOW.
FURTHER ON DOWN THERE'S A FIVE FOOT THAT GALVANIZED CORRUGATED PIPE, BUT WE ONLY HAVE THIS 24 INCH LITTLE THING AND WE'VE DUG, DUG IT OUT AND CLEANED IT OUT SEVERAL TIMES BECAUSE OF, UH, FLOODING.
NOW WITH IDA, WE'VE ALSO HAD ISSUES WITH GRANITE.
I KNOW, BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA STOP MOTHER NATURE, THEREFORE THERE'S NO GUARANTEE HERE THAT WE CAN, UH, ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO, UH, STOP THAT WATER FROM FLOWING AND NOBODY CAN STOP THE WATER FROM FLOWING, BUT WE CAN CONTROL IT.
ALRIGHT, SO MY QUESTION TO YOU WOULD BE, HAS ANYTHING BEEN, UH, LIKE RESEARCH AS TO WHAT HAPPENS IN THE LOWER PART OF THAT VALLEY? 'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT AND THAT'S WHERE, WHERE WE ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY IT.
SO, AND MR. MALLICK MADE SEVERAL POINTS OF ONLY GOD WE WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE ISSUES WITH.
AND THAT GAVE YOU HIM ALL IS NOT GONNA, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE GIAN WALL IS THERE TO PREVENT EROSION.
IT'S NOT THERE TO PREVENT WATER FROM FLOWING THROUGH.
IT'S GOING TO COME UP OUT OF THAT PIT AND IT'S GONNA RUN DOWN THE HILL.
I'M AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL AND SO ARE MY NEIGHBORS AND YOU KNOW, WHERE EVERYTHING FLOWS.
UM, DON'T WANNA, I, I'M GETTING TIRED OF, OF UH, YOU KNOW,
[00:40:01]
REBUILDING THE ROAD.YOU KNOW, IT'S NON-DEDICATED ROAD.
BUT WE'VE BEEN DOING IT A LONG TIME.
AND WITH THIS, I THINK WE NEED, EXCUSE ME, I THINK WE NEED A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION AND A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH INTO HOW IT'S GOING TO IMPACT US AT THE LOWER END.
SO YOUR CONCERN IS THE RETENTION POND FILLING WITH AND THE BIG STORM OF SOME SORT AND OVERFLOW.
THE OTHER CONCERN IS THE FACT THAT THERE'S A LOT OF IMPERVIOUS SURFACES HERE.
AND, AND LIKE SHE SAID, I'M SORRY I FORGOT YOUR NAME, I'M SORRY.
BUT, UM, IT, IT IS STILL IN THE PRELIMINARY DESIGN.
BUT I WANT TO MAKE IT KNOWN THAT THERE HAS TO BE A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH INTO WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN BELOW THIS PROJECT, NOT ONLY WITH THE PROJECT.
AND I THINK AWARE OF THAT, YEAH.
WE'RE, WE'RE AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS THING AND IT IS.
AND RIGHT NOW WE GOT FLOODED OUT WITH IDA AND IT'S JUST NOTHING.
BUT, YOU KNOW, WOODED LAND, YOU KNOW, IT'S VEGETATION.
NOW WHEN YOU CREATE THE IMPROPRIATE SURFACES, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER ISSUE.
BUT I MEAN, AS MS. ZARO SAID, THIS IS THE FIRST STAGE OF THIS WHOLE PROCESS.
THERE ARE GONNA BE TWO MORE STAGES THAT THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH.
AND IN DOING THAT, THAT THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS FROM THE TOWNSHIP ORDINANCES ABOUT HOW THEY HAVE TO MANAGE AND CONTROL STORMWATER RUNOFF.
THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO CREATE ANY MORE RUNOFF THAN WHAT THEY IS ALREADY COMING OFF THE PROPERTY.
WHICH APPARENTLY BASED ON THESE PICTURES AND VIDEOS IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S WELL EXISTING WATER COMING OFF THERE.
SO I THINK THE INTENTION OF THE TOWNSHIP ORDINANCES AND THE ENGINEER CAN CERTAINLY WEIGH IN IS THAT THAT WATER HAS TO BE CONTROLLED AND MANAGED SO THAT HOPEFULLY THAT CONDITION MIGHT GET BETTER FOR YOU THAN WHAT IT CURRENTLY IS.
THAT'S THE INTENTION OF THE TOWNSHIP ORDINANCES.
AND I RESPECT THAT OPINION, BUT CREATING IMPERVIOUS SURFACES IS NOT GONNA MAKE IT ANY BETTER IF WE HAVE ANOTHER IDA.
WELL, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER IDA.
I MEAN NOW THERE DON'T WAY AROUND IT.
CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT THERE ARE NO STORMWATER CONTROLS ON THE PROPERTY CURRENTLY.
IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH, TREES, BUT CURRENTLY THERE'S NO MANAGEMENT OF STORM WATER.
AND EXCUSE ME, WHO, WHO ARE YOU? YOU'RE NOT JOE PRESIDENT.
I DON'T I KNOW WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT IT.
HE'S IN PHIL IN FOR JOE TONIGHT.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE HE, WELL THAT'S MY MISTAKE.
I HAVE TO MAKE HIM A NAME PLEASE.
I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF, I'M FILLING IN FOR JOE THIS EVENING.
THE INTENTION OF THE TAX ORDINANCES IS TO HAVE DEVELOPERS WHEN THEY PUT SOMETHING ON THEIR PROPERTY, PUT SYSTEMS IN PLACE THAT'S GONNA MANAGE AND CONTROL WATER AND STORE WATER RUNOFF TO AT LEAST AT THE VERY MINIMUM MAINTAIN THAT THE WATER THAT'S COMING OFF THE PROPERTY IS STILL THE SAME AMOUNT OF LAW.
THAT'S WHAT THE ORDINANCE IS SAYING.
THAT'S WHAT THEY, THAT'S WHAT THEIR ENGINEERS HAVE TO DESIGN FOR.
THAT'S WHAT THE TOWNSHIP ENGINEER HAS TO REVIEW THE PLAN AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE COMPLYING WITH.
THERE'S A LONG PROCESS THAT'S STILL GONNA BE GOING ON WHERE THAT'S ALL GONNA BE LOOKED INTO.
DETAILED REPORTS ARE GONNA BE PREPARED.
IT'S A LONG PROCESS AND, AND IT IS, WE'RE HAPPY THAT YOU ARE RAISING THESE CONCERNS AND WE'RE BRINGING THEM TO OUR ATTENTION SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ISSUES ARE ADDRESSED AND ADDRESSED APPROPRIATELY AND CORRECTLY.
BUT TO SAY THAT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW IS THE FINAL PRODUCT, WE'RE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WHERE THE FINAL PRODUCTS CAN BE.
AND I THINK WE THE CHANCE TO REVIEW ALL THE STUFF THEY'RE GONNA BRING US OVER IN THE JEN, OUR COMPANY HAS TO REVIEW ALL THAT STUFF.
AND, AND LIKE I SAID TO MR. MALLICK, IS THERE A CHANCE IT'S JUST A SLIGHT, EVEN IF JUST GIMME A SLIGHT CREDIT THAT IT COULD BE BETTER.
NEXT TIME SEND IT TO ME FOR A MEETING.
I REPRESENT, UH, HOLY GHOST CHURCH IN PHOENIXVILLE, WHICH OWNS THE CEMETERY PROPERTY.
UM, AND OUR ADDRESS, 73 HOLY GHOST WAY PO BOX 66.
AND THE FIRST ONE IS MORE OF A CLERICAL THING.
I, IS THERE ANY CORRESPONDENCE THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE GETTING REGARDING THIS SINCE WE ARE NEIGHBORS TO THIS POTENTIAL SITE? 'CAUSE WE'RE NOT RECEIVING ANYTHING.
I WAS JEFF, THAT QUESTION, THE NOTIFICATION WHEN THE ZONING HEARING, BOARD HEARING WAS IN PROCESS, YOU WERE NOTIFIED OF THAT WITH IF YOU WITHIN 500 FEET, UM, FOR THIS PROCESS, THERE IS NO NOTIFICATION, THERE'S NO NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS IN TERMS OF MAILING OR POSTING THE SITE.
'CAUSE I DON'T, WE DON'T RECALL RECEIVING
[00:45:01]
ANYTHING.SO YOU JUST GOTTA WATCH THE WEBSITE.
RIGHT JEFF? WELL, YEAH, FOR THIS, FOR THIS PART OF THE PROCESS, FOR THE TENTATIVE, PRELIMINARY AND FINAL, IF WE GET TO THOSE STAGES, THAT'S JUST THE AGENDA ON THE WEBSITE.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT MY AGENDA, I TRY TO PUT DOWN WELL IN ADVANCE OF WHAT THE, WHEN THEY'LL BE ON THE NEXT AGENDA.
AND IF YOU STICK AROUND AT THE END, WHICH MOST PEOPLE DON'T, WE DO TALK ABOUT WHAT ARE ON LIKE THE NEXT TWO OR THREE AGENDAS.
SO WE UNDERSTAND FROM WHAT'S COMING UP IN THE PROCESS IN TERMS OF, A PERFECT EXAMPLE IS WHAT JEFF DID TONIGHT ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA.
THAT COMPANY, THE FIRST COMPANY CANCELED, BUT WE HAD TO LEAVE IT ON THE AGENDA AND THEN WE HAD TO ADDRESS IT AS, AS IN THE MEETING.
SO WE WERE JUST FEARFUL WE WEREN'T RECEIVING IT LIKE A ADDRESS ISSUE OR SOMETHING.
IF YOU WANNA REACH OUT TO ME, I CAN MAKE SURE THE HEARING BOARD IS OBVIOUSLY PASSED AND THEN THAT I CAN SEND THE INFORMATION.
I'M JUST, I'M AFRAID WE'RE JUST NOT GETTING, NECESSARILY GETTING THERE MIGHT BE AN ISSUE WITH GETTING A CORRESPONDENCE.
I MEAN, I WAS SPEAKING TO SOMEONE ELSE.
I MISSED YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, SO, OKAY.
IT'S ON THE RECORD SO I DON'T NECESSARILY NEED IT, BUT I CAN, WHEN MY ASSISTANT DOES THIS, SHE CAN GIVE ME YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND I CAN LOOK AT, SEE WHERE YOU ARE IN RESPECT TO THIS PROPERTY.
AND ALSO YOU CAN CHECK THE TA YOU CAN CHECK THE COUNTY TAX RECORDS.
USUALLY WHEN THEY DO NOTICE THEY'LL PULL THE ADDRESS THAT'S ON THE COUNTY TAX RECORDS.
SO DEPENDING ON WHAT THE ADDRESS IS FOR THE CHURCH THAT OWNS THE UH, THE THE CEMETERY.
OH, THE CEMETERY, YEAH, THE CEMETERY DOESN'T HAVE A MAILING ADDRESS.
IT'S A CHURCH IN PHOENIXVILLE, CORRECT? IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYBODY RECEIVE, I ACTUALLY, I FEEL WE THERE WAS AN ISSUE WITH THAT.
I MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD DEAL WITH.
WELL, AND I GONE WITH, I CAN PULL UP THE EMAIL.
I I'VE GONE WITH AN ASSISTANT OF, OF THE CHURCH, THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY AND EXPLAIN TO HER THE PROCESS OF GETTING THE ADDRESS CHANGED.
BECAUSE ALL I CAN DO IS MAIL TO THE PROPERTY OWNER'S MAILING ADDRESS.
I UNFORTUNATELY CAN'T FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL ONE FIND OUT WHAT THE, THE ACTUAL CONTACT IS.
SO ALL I CAN DO IS PULL FROM THE COUNTY RECORD AND YOUR COUNTY RECORD HAS A MAILING ADDRESS.
IT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT WORKING FOR YOU THOUGH.
SO I'VE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH SOMEONE AT THE CHURCH.
YOU DID? YES, YOU DID SAY ACTUALLY HERE.
THE SECOND, UH, SECOND QUESTION I HAD HAS TO DO AGAIN.
WE ARE OUT, UH, ON THAT MAP AT THE TOP THERE.
UM, OUR, OUR COUNCIL IS CONCERNED, IS THERE ANY SORT OF FENCE OR BARRIER BEING PUT IN BETWEEN THIS DEVELOPMENT AND OUR CEMETERY? WELL, LIKE I SAID, THIS IS JUST A, A PRELIMINARY BUT YOU
WE CERTAINLY CAN THINK ABOUT IT.
YEAH, I MEAN WE'RE UH, WE'RE OBVIOUSLY CONCERNED FOR OBVIOUS REASONS OF POTENTIAL LIABILITY, THINGS OF THAT AND SAFETY AND THINGS OF THAT.
THAT'S SOMETHING WE'LL PUT ON OUR NOTES TOO TO LOOK AT.
UM, SUE ALLERS, 300 LOVERS LANE.
UM, WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS THE STATE YOU WANTED A WAIVER OF UH, THE RECONSTRUCTION OF LOVER'S LANE WHERE THEY'RE GONNA BE DIGGING ON THE PARTIAL PART OF MY, LIKE RIGHT ACROSS FROM MY HOUSE AND THEY'RE GONNA BE DIGGING UP.
AND THE THING THAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT IS, UM, THE LIKE TRASH TRUCKS COMING OUT.
THERE'S NOT GONNA BE THE WIDE, YOU HAVE IT AS A VILLAGE.
IT'S ONLY BEING 40 FEET WIDE OR STANDARD ROAD IS 50.
UM, ALSO I WOULD, THE, IT NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED AND ALSO DOWN BY A MANDA LANE.
I FEEL THERE SHOULD BE A TRAFFIC LIGHT INSTALLED.
'CAUSE THAT IS A DEATH TRAP THERE TRYING TO PULL OUT OF THERE, COMING OUT OF AMANDA, YOU MEAN? ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY AGREE.
THAT'S A, THAT'S A CONCERN FOR US.
I MEAN THAT'S DEFINITELY, I THINK WE ALL RECOGNIZE THAT THAT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A CONCERN FOR YEAH.
AND THAT SHOULD BE PUT IN WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT IS MADE, NOT DOWN THE ROAD WHERE THE TOWNSHIP OR THE PEOPLE PS RESIDENTS HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
AND ALSO IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE NEW HOMES THERE, PEOPLE ARE GONNA, THEY LIKE TO WALK.
AND I THINK THE IMPROVEMENT OF LOVER'S LANE WITH PAVEMENT SHOULD BE PUT ON THERE BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE GONNA WALK IS DOWN LOVER'S LANE AS A REALLY, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY FOR SAFETY REASONS.
I'M JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR WIDENING TO THE FULL EXTENT OF LOVER'S LANE ON THEIR PROPERTY.
JUST WHERE, WHERE IT'S BEING BUILT BECAUSE THERE'S NO ROOM WHERE THE CEMETERY IS.
BUT YOU'RE GONNA NEED A PAVEMENT 'CAUSE PEOPLE WALK THERE.
WE, I I THOUGHT IN PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS WE TALKED ABOUT NO IMPROVEMENTS TO LOVE'S LANE.
SO I DON'T THINK THEY'RE SHOWING ANY, I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE'RE FINALIZED ANY OF THIS, BUT IF YOU ARE, IF YOU ARE SUGGESTION IS, I THINK IT'S WIFE ON THAT SIDE, IT'S THAT LIKE WHERE THE DEVELOPMENT'S GOING TO BE IN A RAM LOVER'S LANE UP THERE COMING OFF 29 AND HAVING A PAVEMENT SO PEOPLE CAN WALK.
'CAUSE RIGHT NOW PEOPLE ARE WALKING IN OLD LANE.
PEOPLE ARE WALKING IN THE LANE AND NOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE, YOU KNOW, WHAT, 22 MORE PEOPLE.
YOU, OR I'M SORRY, YOU HAVE 12 HOMES.
11 HOMES, HOW MANY PER HOME? AND THESE, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE KIDS THEY
[00:50:01]
WANNA WALK, WE GONNA HAVE 'EM WALKING IN THE STREET.SO I REALLY RECOMMEND, YOU KNOW, A PAVEMENT WE PUT IN AND ALONG WITH THE TRAFFIC LIGHT.
'CAUSE PEOPLE ARE GONNA WANNA GO ACROSS ROUTE 29.
SO, UH, SOMEBODY MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT MAKING THEIR SIDE, I'M SAYING LOVER'S LANE SIDE, THIS PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT THE SAME AS THE OTHER SIDE.
WELL THAT DESAL LANE GOES ALL THE WAY UP THE HILL.
SO THERE'S A LINE OF SIGHT ISSUE OF LOVER'S LANE AS IT IS NOW.
BUT LIKE I SAID EARLIER, 66 FEET A SECOND AND 45 MILES AN HOUR, THAT'S WHERE A VEHICLE TRAVELS ON LO GROUND.
SO I SUGGEST MAYBE YOU TAKE A LOOK INTO THE TRAFFIC STUDY TO MAYBE MAKE THAT FULL LANE WIDTH, 10 TO 12 FEET WIDE, ALL THE WAY FROM LOVER'S LAYING DOWN TO AMANDA.
I I THINK WE, WE AGREE THAT WE'RE GONNA CLOSELY THAT I DON'T YEAH, I AGREE.
I I'M TELLING YOU IT'S A BAD WHAT ABOUT ICE? WHAT ABOUT RAIN? WHAT ABOUT SNOW? RIGHT? HOW MANY TIMES HAS THAT HELP BEEN SHUT DOWN BECAUSE THOSE IN CONDITIONS WE AGREE.
OKAY, WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT THAT REAL CLOSE.
UM, COUPLE THINGS JUST FOR CLARITY.
UH, THE, THE VARIANCE THAT WAS GRANTED BY THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, UH, THAT WAS STRICTLY FOR INFRASTRUCTURE ON THE STEEP SLOPES, CORRECT? ON THE ALLISON CLARIFY.
IT'S FOR ALLOWING THE IMPROVEMENTS ON THE STEEP SLOPES.
NO, NONE OF THE HOMES ARE, AND THERE ARE SOME HOMES THAT ARE IN STEEPS SLOPE.
THAT THEY ARE ON SOME STEEP, NOT THE, THE WAY THE BAND, IT SORT OF FADES OUT ON THIS PLAN.
BUT THERE THE BAND RUNS SORT OF TOP OF THIS PLAN BOTTOM DIAGONALLY.
AND THAT IS THAT WHAT THE VARIANCE ALLOWED FOR THERE, THEY WERE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS.
SO IT WAS NOT A VARI IT WAS NOT VARIANCE RELIEF, BUT FOR THE HOMES AS WELL.
FOR THE, FOR THE HOMES STORMWATER PORTION OF THE ROAD.
I I UNDERSTOOD IT WAS JUST FOR THE, UH, INFRASTRUCTURE AND YOU MENTIONED THERE WAS GONNA BE AN A FOUR-WAY STOP SIGN AT LOVER'S LANE.
THERE WOULD BE, OH, AT LOVE AT OR AT AMANDA AT MULTI-WAY STOP SIGN AT THE INTERSECTION OF AMAN BY THE CEMETERY COVERS AT THE TOP BY THE CEMETERY.
UM, DOES, DOES, DOES ZONING ALLOW FOR THREE HOMES ON A SHARED DRIVEWAY? THAT'S MORE OF A SUBDIVISION LAND DEVELOPMENT ISSUE, BUT YES, IT IS, IT IS ALLOWED.
AND, AND, UH, I ASSUME THAT THIS ALL MEETS THE FRONTAGE REQUIREMENTS FOR EACH OTHER ON, ON, UM, OH, WOULD, WOULD, UH, THE ADJACENT PROPERTY THAT, I GUESS THE GENTLEMAN THAT WAS SPEAKING PHONES, WOULD THEY BE PROHIBITED FROM BUILDING ANYTHING CONSIDERING THAT STORMWATER BASIN IS GOING TO BE RIGHT THERE? NOT BY US.
I MEAN NO CONTROLS OF, NO, NOT BY US.
UH, AT ONE OF THE EARLIER MEETINGS THEY, THEY HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT GEOLOGICAL STUDIES.
WAS ANY OF THAT COMPLETED? WE HAVE DONE SOME PRELIMINARY, UH, STORM WATER, UH, INVESTIGATING AND ANYTHING REVEALED OR, UH, WE DIDN'T GET MUCH INFILTRATION.
YOU DID NOT, WE DID NOT KNOW THAT.
SO I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AS THIS THING GETS ENGINEERED, I THINK THERE'S A CONCERN, THE VOLUME OF WATER IN ONE BASIN LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S LEDGE STONE THERE, IS IT GONNA BE SEEPING OUT THE HILLSIDE, YOU KNOW, DOWNHILL FROM WHERE THAT BASIN'S GONNA BE.
SO JUST, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A TENTATIVE SKETCH.
LET'S, LET'S
AND, UH, SO, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, I MEAN, IF, IF THE ENGINEERING SHOWS THAT, THAT THE STORM WATER IS NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO CONTROL, DO YOU KNOW, DO WE REDUCE THE NUMBERS ON HERE TO REDUCE THE IMPER? UH, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY TOO EARLY FOR US TO, NOT THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE FOR AN ATTENTION TO SKETCH RIGHT.
AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, I IT SEEMS TO BE THAT OKAY, IT'S GONNA BE 11 HOMES AND WE'RE GONNA, EVEN, EVEN IF WE CAN'T DO IT, IT'S STILL GONNA
[00:55:01]
BE 11 HOMES.BUT YOU KNOW, AS SOON AS THEY ADDED THE ROAD IN HERE THAT ADDED CONSIDERABLE AND OUS.
JUST STATE YOUR NAME, JUST SO THE RECORD.
RICH WOLF ROOM 1, 2, 3 LOVERS LANE.
UH, WITH THAT GENTLEMAN JUST SAID ABOUT THE, UH, GEOLOGICAL STRATA, ARE THERE GONNA BE TEST BOARDS PROVIDED, UH, THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPMENT TO SEE WHAT IS DOWN THERE? UH, BEFORE ANYTHING STARTS? I, I DON'T KNOW.
WE HAVE DUG, DUG SOME TEST BITS AND THAT, UH, REPORT WILL BE PROVIDED TO THE TOWNSHIP DRILLING.
I'M SORRY, I'M AFRAID THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK CAN'T HEAR YOU.
UH, YES, WE DID DO, UH, PERFORM SOME TEST, UH, DRILLING, UH, OR, UH, DIGGING OF THE SOIL AND UH, WE'LL PROVIDE THAT REPORT TO THE TOWNSHIP WITH OUR, UH, FULL PRELIMINARY PLAN.
HOW DEEP DID YOU GO? UH, ONLY AS FAR AS OUR, UM, UH, THE FOUNDATION, THE BOTTOM OF THE FOUNDATION OR THE BOTTOM OF THAT PIT.
UH, IT'S ESSENTIALLY THE, THE, UH, THROUGHOUT THE SITE WE LOOK AT POTENTIAL PLACES FOR INFILTRATION IN THE, FOR STORM WATER MANAGEMENT.
UM, BUT REALLY IT'S BUCKET REFUSAL OF THE MACHINE THAT WE'RE USING.
AND SO MAYBE WE GOT DOWN EIGHT, 10 FEET, UM, BEFORE WE WERE HITTING.
AND WE WILL BE PROVIDING COURT REPRESENTATION, PLEASE.
THAT WAS THE ONLY QUESTION I HAD.
SO MY QUESTION IS, FIRST I WANT TO SAY THAT I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT YOU DO HAVE THE INTEREST OF ALL OF US LANDOWNERS AND WE'RE HERE TO HOPEFULLY, UM, MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PLANS OF THE BUILDER.
BUT IF WE WEREN'T HERE, I DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE OUR BEST INTEREST IS YOURS.
THE GAON WALL, FOR INSTANCE, IF WE WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION, THAT'D BE A DONE DEAL.
SO I DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE OUR BEST INTERESTS ARE YOURS.
AND WITH THAT BEING SAID, I WANNA ASK WITH THE FOUR FEET THAT YOUR ENGINEERS DUG DOWN AND HIT ROCK, AND WE KNOW THAT HILL IS ROCK AND ALL THE WATER THAT IS GOING TO RUN OFF IS COMING DOWNHILL TO US, ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE TO BLAST? AND IF THEY BLAST, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CEMETERY TO THE GRAVES? WELL, WELL WHAT HAPPENS TO OUR WELLS? CORRECT.
AND AS A LANDOWNER, I HOPE THAT IT'S YOURS BECAUSE WE LIVE IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
WE PAY YOUR SALARIES AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR YOU GUYS TO LOOK OUT FOR OUR BEST INTEREST AND NOT JUST A BUILDER WHO'S GREASING.
WELL, DID YOU REALIZE WE ALL LIVE IN THE, IN THE TOWNSHIP ALSO ON OUR HEALTH? NO, WE LIVE IN THE TOWNSHIP.
WE, WE HAVE THE BEST INTEREST OF THE TOWNSHIP IN, IN LIFE TOO.
ALL IS THIS YOUR BACKYARD? NO, IT'S NOT.
UH, ANY MORE FROM THE BOARD? WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO HERE? ZACH? UH, ALLISON, ARE YOU LOOKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION THIS EVENING OR YOU JUST GETTING FEEDBACK? UH, WE WERE LOOKING FOR RECOMMENDATION THIS EVENING SINCE WE ARE ATTENDED A SKETCH.
AND WE ARE ABLE TO COMPLY WITH THE CONSULTANT REVIEW LETTER.
SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY DISAGREEMENT WITH ANY OF THEIR COMMENTS.
SO WHAT, WHAT KIND OF RECOMMENDATION YOU LOOKING FOR? THIS WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION ONLY ON THE TENANT SCHEDULING.
AND AGAIN, THIS, THIS WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK IN FOR PRELIMINARY, UH, FINAL.
AND THIS WOULD JUST BE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD OF, UH, BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, UH, WHEN THEY EVENTUALLY CONSIDER THE APPLICATION.
WHEN WE GET TO THAT STATEMENT.
BUT RIGHT NOW, IF WE RECOMMEND TO MOVE FORWARD, THEY HAVE TO COME BACK WITH THE NEXT, CORRECT, CORRECT.
YEAH, THIS IS, IT IS, AND THIS ATTACH IT IS ESSENTIALLY A THREE PHASE PROCESS.
THREE PHASE PROCESS, LI TE PRELIMINARY FINAL.
[01:00:01]
MOVE ON TO THE NEXT STAGE WHERE THEY WOULD PERFORM OTHER ENGINEERING WORK, LOOKING MORE INTO THE STORMWATER, MORE INTO THE TRAFFIC ISSUES, COME BACK WITH MORE DETAILED PLANS, HAVE TO MEET THE PRELIMINARY REQUIREMENTS.EVENTUALLY YOU WOULD'VE TO SAY YAY OR NAY ON THOSE.
THEY WOULD GO TO THE BOARD AND THEN AFTER THAT THEY WOULD'VE TO GET EVEN FURTHER INTO THE WEEDS RIGHT.
AND GET EVEN MORE DESIGNED OUT.
THEN, THEN THAT WOULD COME BACK TO AGAIN.
SO, SO DID YOU HEAR WHAT ZACH SAID? WE HAVE.
WE CAN, UM, WE CAN RECOMMEND THAT WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THE TENANT.
UH, WHAT IF IT IS NO, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE STAGE FOR THAT? WHAT HAPPENS THEN? I MEAN, IT WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
UM, I MEAN, I, I I, I, I THINK IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO ASK IF THE ENGINEERS HAVE ANY SPECIFIC CONCERNS ABOUT LIEUTENANT SKETCH PLAN OR ANY ISSUES THAT YOU THINK NEED TO BE WORKED OUT BEFORE THIS WOULD BE READY FOR CONSIDERATION BY THE BOARD.
I MEAN, I DID ASK, I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS OR ISSUES AT THIS POINT, BUT YOU GUYS SAID JUST BECAUSE IT IS TENTATIVE, YOU'RE NOT READY YET TO MAKE A REAL RECOMMENDATION, RIGHT? YEAH.
I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER AT THIS TIME.
SO I THINK, I THINK AT THIS STAGE IT IS WHAT IT IS.
SO WE EITHER SAY, YEAH, LET'S MOVE FORWARD TO GET TO THAT PRELIMINARY STAGE, OR, OR NOT.
AND I DON'T SEE, UH, DO WE HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THAT OR DOES ANYBODY WANNA MAKE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? I MEAN, LIVING ON SPARES LANE, LIVING ON SPARES LANE MYSELF, I UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN IT RAINS.
AND I SEE THAT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ADEQUATE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT ON OUR STREET AND WHERE IT GOES.
AND THE FACT THAT MY NEIGHBORS ARE GETTING A LITTLE BIT OLDER, AND IF THEIR LOTS ARE ICED OVER FOR THE ENTIRE WINTER, I THINK THAT'S DANGEROUS AND UNFAIR.
WELL, IF WE'RE VOTING ON THIS PARTICULAR PLAN AS A, AS A THEORETICAL SKETCH PLAN WITH ALL THE, THE HOUSES, THERE'S WHAT, 6, 7, 8 THAT ARE IN THE 25% SLOPE.
THAT IS TERRIBLE FROM A PLANNING STANDPOINT.
AND THEN I HEARING, I THINK JUST TO PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, AREN'T WE JUST LOOKING TO SAY, OKAY, LET'S MOVE TO THE NEXT STEPS SO THAT WE CAN HAVE JEN AND ANTHONY AND OTHER PEOPLE DO THE WORK THAT'S NEEDED.
BUT THE BOARD APPARENTLY APPROVED IT.
THEY HAVE RECEIVED SPECIAL EXCEPTION APPROVAL FOR THE DISTURBANCE OF THE STEEP SLOPE IS WHAT THE, THAT WAS WHAT THEY WENT TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD BOARD.
AND THEY SHOULD HAVE, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS DIFFERENT FROM THE VARIANCE.
MY, MY DAUGHTER LIVES IN THE HOUSE THAT'S ON THE 25% SLOPE IN WESTCHESTER.
AND I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, THEY SHOULD HAVE NEVER BOUGHT THAT.
IT WAS LIKE, I'LL TAKE A RECOMME OR A, UH, PROPOSAL TO, UH, TAKE A VOTE.
IF I COULD JUST CLARIFY ON THE STEEP SLOPES AS WELL.
YOUR ORDINANCE REPRESENT, YOUR ORDINANCE REGULATES 15% AND OR ABOVE.
MOST OF THESE SLOPES THAT ARE SHOWN ON THIS PLAN ARE AT THE 15% AND ABOVE.
THERE ARE SMALL POCKETS OF 25% PLUS, BUT THOSE ARE LITTLE POCKETS.
THEY'RE, NONE OF THE HOUSES ARE BUILT ON THAT 25% AND OVER.
YEAH, BECAUSE WHAT ABOVE JUST SAID IS MOST OF 'EM ARE ON 25, BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE.
YOU BETRAYED US BY GIVING, BY GIVING THEM THE, HEY, I'M NOT GONNA TAKE ANY STUFF.
YOU'RE GONNA LEAVE THE ROOM IF YOU DON'T BE FINE.
THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO SPEAK.
NO, YOU HAVE TO COME UP HERE AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
I CAN OFFICER, PLEASE YOU WORK FOR THESE PEOPLE.
WELL, DID YOU COME UP AND YOU DO IT THE RIGHT WAY.
NOW, I, YOU KNOW WHAT? YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT.
I SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING EARLIER.
UH, MY NAME'S BRETT ALEXANDER.
I LIVE ON 7 41 COLLEGEVILLE ROAD.
I'M THAT PROPERTY RIGHT THERE DOWN THE HILL.
AND I FELT LIKE I DIDN'T COME UP AND SAY SOMETHING TONIGHT BECAUSE DURING THE STEEP SLOPES ONE, YOU KNOW, I SAID MY PIECE, I SAID THE THE RULES SAY THEY NEED TO PROVE THAT THEY CAN, THAT THEY CAN PRODUCE LESS RUNOFF THAN WHAT IS THERE BEFORE THEY GET THE EXCEPTION.
AND I BROUGHT THAT UP TO YOU GUYS.
I SAID THEY NEED TO SHOW IT FIRST, BUT ALL I'M HEARING IS, WILL WILL THERE BE LESS WATER, MR. MR. GUY? YES.
UH, WILL THERE BE LESS DAMAGE? YEAH.
[01:05:01]
ANYTHING.AND THAT'S YOUR, IT'S YOUR JOB.
IT'S YOUR JOB TO SAY YOU GUYS DIDN'T MEET THE REQUIREMENT.
THAT'S WHY THE STEEP SLOPE RULES ARE THERE, YOU KNOW? AND THEN YOU, YOU GUYS, I DON'T REMEMBER MOST OF YOU, BUT I FELT BETRAYED BECAUSE, SO IF, IF I CAN JUST CLARIFY BEFORE WE GO TOO MUCH FURTHER DOWN THIS LINE.
THIS IS THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
I KNOW THIS IS NOT THE ZONING.
THAT'S WHY I DIDN'T COME UP AND SAY IT TONIGHT UNTIL I WAS CALLED.
BUT YOU GUYS VIOLATED THE RULES OF THE TOWNSHIP BY GIVING HIM THE EXCEPTION.
THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION GOES BEFORE THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, NOT THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
IF YOU CAME TO A HEARING THAT DEALT WITH THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION THAT WAS BEFORE THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, NOT THIS BODY.
SO IT WASN'T NOT, YOU WEREN'T IN FRONT OF ANY OF THE PEOPLE.
YOU ARE NOT THE PEOPLE WHEN YOU MADE THOSE COMMENTS.
BUT ARE YOU STILL, DO YOU STILL WORK FOR THE SAME TOWNSHIP? A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, SAME TOWNSHIP SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT IS PERMITTED.
I HEARD THE STEEP SLOPES GET BROUGHT UP.
ARE WE ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT THE STEEP SLOPES? YOU'RE ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT THEM.
'CAUSE SOMEONE ON, SOMEONE UP HERE BROUGHT UP THE STEEP SLOPES.
YOU ARE ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT THEM.
YOU'RE ALLOWED TO MAKE A COMMENT THAT'S THEY DETAINED.
AND THEN HE SAID, COME UP HERE AND TALK ABOUT THE STEEP SLOPES, WHAT WE'RE SAYING.
THAT'S WHY I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER WAS THAT YOU GUYS VOTE, YOU KNOW, TOOK THE VOTE, YOU VOTED.
I SAID, I DIDN'T REMEMBER MOST OF YOU.
YOU'RE STILL IN THE SAME TOWNSHIP.
I'M IN THE SAME ROOM TALKING TO THE SAME TOWNSHIP.
YOU HAVE TO, I LIVE IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
AND EVERY TIME IT WAS, IT WAS OAK.
WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT, THIS IS JUST PRELIMINARY.
WE'RE GONNA SAY YES TO THESE GUYS BASED ON NO EVIDENCE, SO THAT YOU CAN SHOW UP AT THE NEXT MEETING AND THEN WE'LL SAY YES TO THESE GUYS BASED ON NO EVIDENCE.
AND THEN WE'LL GO TO THE NEXT MEETING.
AND THEN BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, THERE'S HOUSES IN MY BACKYARD.
THAT'S HOW THE PROSECUTOR, AND THERE'S MORE RUNOFF THAN THERE WAS TO BEGIN WITH.
AND THAT'S HOW THE PROCESS, OKAY.
YOU CAN ASK ANYBODY A TREE'S ROOT SYSTEMS ARE WAY BETTER AT WATER MANAGEMENT THAN ANY PIPE OR ANY POOL OR ANY DITCH.
I I THINK YOU'VE MADE YOUR VIEWPOINT.
MY HOUSE IS GONNA END UP JUST LIKE HIS HOUSE.
I WISH THEY NEVER DEVELOPED THERE.
OKAY, BACK TO WHAT I ANSWERED.
PROPOSED AGAIN, LER IS 300 LOVERS LANE.
THE THING THAT PEOPLE ARE VERY FRUSTRATED ANYMORE BECAUSE THE TOWNSHIP HAS LED US DOWN SO MUCH, AND I UNDERSTAND THESE BUILDERS BUY THE PROPERTY, THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH IT, BUT THERE'S RULES AND THERE'S REGULATIONS TO FOLLOW.
OKAY? NO ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET AN EXCEPTION BECAUSE THEY'RE BUILDING 15 HOMES.
OKAY? IF YOU'RE BUILDING A LITTLE SHED IN THE BACK OF YOUR HOUSE, YOU SHOULDN'T BE STONED FOR IT.
OKAY? BUT THESE, A LOT OF PEOPLE I KNOW WHO HAVE COME TO THE TOWNSHIP TO HAVE A SHED PUT IN THEIR BACK DOOR, IN THEIR ADDITION, THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH HOOPS.
OKAY? WE'RE TRYING TO SAVE WHAT LITTLE PROPERTY AND LITTLE DIGNITY WE DO HAVE IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
AND, AND IT'S, WE'RE GETTING DEFEATED AND PEOPLE IN HIS TANTRUM ARE DISGUSTED.
SO A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS PROBABLY NOT THE RIGHT NAME FOR IT.
WELL, IT WAS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
IT WAS THIS EXCEPTION THAT WAS GIVEN.
IT'S CALLED A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS SOMETHING THAT'S PERMITTED IN THE ZONING ORDERS SO LONG AS YOU MEET SPECIAL, OKAY? THERE'S ORDINANCE.
WHY WERE THE, WHY WAS THE ORDINANCE TAKEN OUT THEN? I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT, OKAY.
IT WASN'T THE EXCEPTION GIVEN FOR THE, UH, THE STEEP SLOPE.
SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS NOT A VARIANCE.
THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS SOMETHING THAT IS PERMITTED.
AS LONG AS YOU MEET CERTAIN CRITERIA THAT ARE STATED, WELL, THEN WHY ARE THE RULES PUT IN? AND THEN SOMEONE CAN COME IN AND SAY, I NEED TO GET A SPECIAL EXCEPTION OR VARIANCE.
THEY DO IT TO EVERY DEVELOPMENT IN THIS TOWN.
MS. DOWN SAID, I MEAN, I'M JUST ASKING A QUESTION.
WE SHOULD REVOKE THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
'CAUSE THEY DIDN'T MEET THE CRITERIA.
DON IN HEARING BOARD DEVELOPERS DETERMINED THAT THEY'VE MET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
AND THEY GOT US DOWN AGAIN AND THEY LET EVERYBODY DOWN.
I I, I UNDERSTAND YOUR PASSION AND I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN.
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE.
I WENT THROUGH THE, UH, 72 FLOOD.
THEY'RE GONNA BE SELLING THEIR HOME BECAUSE OF THE WATER.
AND THAT ALL SORTS AT THE TOP OF THE HILL.
LITTLE MONTCLAIR DOES EXIST AND IT, IT'S VERY PASSIONATE TO EVERYBODY.
[01:10:01]
SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE PERMITTED TO DO IN THE ORDINANCE AS LONG AS YOU MEET WITH CERTAIN CRITERIA.THEY WENT TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
THEY HAD THEM PUT EVIDENCE INTO THE RECORD.
THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, GRANTED THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION, ANYBODY THAT WAS THERE COULD HAVE BECOME A PARTY TO THAT APPLICATION.
THEY COULD HAVE FILED AN APPEAL TO COURT IF THEY SAID THAT THEY DIDN'T MEET THEIR REQUIREMENTS.
THEY HAVE THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? THAT THE PEOPLE, THE TOWNSHIP, I CANNOT ADVISE YOU THAT, WELL, YOU JUST SAID THAT.
JUST SAY, I I'M SAYING YOU COULDN'T HAVE FILED AN APPEAL IF YOU HAD BECOME A PARTY DURING THE PROCEEDINGS.
I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT I WAS A PARTY.
I MEAN, YOU MEAN I WAS TALKING, I HAVEN'T BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS AT ALL.
I'M JUST SAYING, OKAY, THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE DOING THIS THEN? IF YOU DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, I'M, I'M JUST ASKING A QUESTION.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT FUNNY.
WHO REPRESENT, FINISH SAYING, GO AHEAD.
WE ARE NOW IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM THE ZONING PROCESS.
RIGHT NOW THEY'RE COMING IN, THIS IS THE TENTATIVE SKETCH LEVEL.
THEY ARE COMING IN WITH A BROAD STROKES PLAN.
HEY, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO DO WITH OUR PROBLEM.
THIS IS A GENERAL IDEA BEFORE WE GET INTO THE NITTY GRITTY DETAILS.
SO THEY COME BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
THEY'RE ASKING FOR FEEDBACK ON THAT BROAD STROKES PLAN.
THE NEXT LEVEL, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO SUBMIT A PRELIMINARY PLAN.
THERE ARE STRICTER REQUIREMENTS.
THERE ARE MORE THINGS THEY HAVE TO SHOW.
THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE MORE DATA, THEY HAVE TO DO MORE STUDIES.
THEY HAVE TO DO ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS TO GET A MORE DETAILED PLAN THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION WILL REVIEW WITH HELP FROM ALL THE TOWNSHIP PROFESSIONALS.
AFTER THAT, IF THEY GET THAT APPROVAL, THEY THEN WILL MOVE ON TO THE FINAL APPROVAL PROCESS WHERE THERE IS EVEN MORE INFORMATION THAT THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE.
THIS IS SIMPLY THE FIRST STEP IN THE PROCESS.
WELL, I GUESS THE ZONING PROCESS WAS SEPARATE.
AND LET ME ASK YOU THIS, JEFF.
THERE'S A, YOU HAVE A TENTATIVE THING FOR THE SUPERVISORS JULY 15TH.
I JUST, I HAVE THAT DATE SET TO INFORM YOU THAT IT MIGHT BE ON THAT AGENDA.
SO THAT MEANS HOW MANY MORE PRELIMINARY HEARINGS DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE FOR THIS? WELL, RIGHT NOW WE'RE ONLY SCHEDULED FOR TONIGHT.
IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION DOESN'T MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT AND WANTS TO COME BACK.
NOW WE'RE NOT HAVING A MEETING ON JAN JULY 3RD.
SO THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING IS AFTER THE BOARD MEETING, SUPERVISOR'S MEETING SUPERVISOR.
BUT THIS IS WHAT THIS DEVELOPMENT IS ON THAT AGAIN, RIGHT? IT IS TENTATIVELY SCHEDULED FOR THAT.
I PUT IT ON THERE TO INFORM PEOPLE THAT IT MAY BE ON THAT AGENDA.
I'M JUST, I CAUSE 'EM THE PROCESS.
IF THEY MAKE AN, IF THEY MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT, IT WOULD BE ON, IT SHOULD BE ON THAT AGENDA IF THE BOARD APPROVES THAT AGENDA.
IF THEY DON'T MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT, THEY STILL MAY BE ON THAT AGENDA.
THAT'S A DISCUSSION THAT I HAVE TO HAVE WITH THE APPLICANT ON WHAT THEY WANT TO DO AND HOW THEY WANT TO MOVE FORWARD.
'CAUSE IT IS AN APPLICANT DRIVEN PROCESS.
AND LET ME ASK YOU THIS, HAS PENDOT APPROVED THIS FOR THE ROADS GOING DOWN 29? SO ANTHONY, THE PRELIMINARY PART OF THE PROCESS.
OKAY, SO OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER HAS DONE A TRAFFIC STUDY THAT WILL BE SUBMITTED TO BOTH PENNDOT AND TO UM, ANTHONY OR YOU KNOW, BOWMAN FOR REVIEW.
PENNDOT ULTIMATELY HAS JURISDICTION ON 29.
SO WHATEVER ROAD IMPROVEMENTS WOULD BE PROPOSED AT THAT INTERSECTION AND THE ACTUAL LOCATION OF THAT INTERSECTION WILL NEED TO BE APPROVED BY PENDOT.
BUT AGAIN, TYPICALLY THAT WOULD ALL OCCUR, WE WOULD BE PREPARED TO SUBMIT THAT WITH OUR PRELIMINARY PLAN AND THAT REVIEW PROCESS IS OKAY ALONG WITH THE TRAFFIC LIGHT TOO.
CORRECT ON AMANDA, THAT DEFINITELY IS A MUST.
THAT THAT'S, AS I SAID, PEOPLE TRYING TO CROSS FROM ONE SIDE OF AMANDA TO ANOTHER.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE TALKING BAD ACCIDENTS.
IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT DEFINITELY NEEDS TO BE PUT IN NOW.
AND IT'S LIKE THE SIDEWALK'S UP ON LOVER'S LANE AND WHATEVER ELSE.
I DON'T WANT, THAT'S WHAT SHE'S TING.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE, THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THIS SITE BECAUSE OF THE STEEP SLOPES IS THE STORM WATER RUNOFF.
AND, AND MAYBE, I DON'T THINK, I THINK THE TRAFFIC IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT'S CONCERN.
WELL, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THAT PART OF THE STORY I'VE HEARD, BUT, UM, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT SOMEBODY SHOULD DO SOME BASIC CALCULATIONS, FIGURE OUT WHAT THE VOLUME OF WATER COMING
[01:15:01]
OFF HERE IS, AND IF THAT IS THE APPROPRIATE STRUCTURE TO HANDLE IT.BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A HUGE BASIN ON A STEEP SLOPE THAT COULD CAUSE PROBLEMS. YOU UNDERSTAND, YOU UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS HERE THOUGH.
ALL THEY'RE ASKING FOR IS TENANT APPROVAL.
JEN WILL GET DEEP, A LOT DEEPER INVOLVED.
YOU HEARD ME ASK HER A COUPLE TIMES.
SHE SAYS SHE HAS NOTHING MORE TO ADD 'CAUSE THEY HAVEN'T GIVEN HER A PRELIMINARY NEXT SKETCH PLAN.
BUT THAT'S, I'M SUGGESTING AND THAT'S ALL.
WE'RE GONNA BE A LOT DEEPER INTO THIS AS WE GET MORE INVOLVED TO WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE.
BUT THAT, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING BEFORE IT MOVES OUT OF TENTATIVE SKETCH.
MAYBE THESE BASIC CALCULATIONS SHOULD BE DONE.
BUT THAT'S PROCESS WORKS THOUGH.
THAT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN CHANGE IT.
THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL ISN'T NEEDED IN A TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN.
IT'S THE WHOLE IDEA IS THAT THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN IS SUPPOSED TO BE SOMETHING THAT THE DEVELOPERS GET AN IDEA ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT A PROJECT IS VIABLE, WHETHER PEOPLE DOING THOSE EXTRA STUDIES AND REVIEWS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BECAUSE THOSE ARE ALL EXPENSIVE.
SO THIS IS, IF THEY FEEL THAT, OKAY, AFTER A 10 MINUTE SKETCH IT'S VIABLE, THEN THEY'LL GO AND START DOING ALL THE EXTRA STUDIES AND PRESENTING THE ATTACH TO REVIEW.
AND SO, SO IF IT SHAKES OUT THAT THERE'S TOO MUCH IMPERVIOUS AND, AND NOT ENOUGH PLACE TO CAPTURE THAT VOLUME, THEN WHAT HAPPENS THEN WE WOULD, THEY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE TOWNSHIP ORDINANCES.
IF THEY DON'T COMPLY WITH THE TOWNSHIP ORDINANCES, THEY CAN'T GET APPROVED.
THEY HAVE TO, OR THEY HAVE TO GET A WAIVER FROM THE OR IF WE THINK IT ISN'T GONNA WORK.
IF JEN RECOMME THAT THIS ISN'T GONNA WORK, IT'S TOO MUCH WATER, THEN WE'RE GONNA DENY AND THEY STILL GET SPECIAL INCENTIVES.
WE, WE DON'T, WE DON'T DO THAT.
WE'RE GOING TO RELY ON JEN AND OTHER PROFESSIONALS TO TELL US THAT THIS CAN BE FIXED.
ALSO BE CLEAR, WE NEED AN NPDS PERMIT.
SO CONSERVATION DISTRICT AND DEP WILL ALSO BE REVIEWING THIS FROM A EROSION.
WELL, ALL THE MORE REASON I WOULD THINK TO SPEND THAT LITTLE BIT OF MONEY TO DO SOME BA BASIC CALCULATIONS BEFORE YOU APPLY FOR THAT, THAT WILL BE DONE PART OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAN.
SO WE'RE ALL, WE'RE ALL THE SAME PAGE.
THAT WILL ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO BE DONE.
I THINK WHAT YOU'RE NOT UNDERSTANDING IS THERE'S A PROCESS, AND THIS IS JUST, THIS IS THE EARLY, EARLY PROCESS.
I'M JUST, I JUST AM QUESTIONING WHETHER YOUR APPROVAL WOULD PUT IN STONE WHAT WE HAVE HERE AND NOW IT HAS TO BE DESIGNED AROUND THAT.
IT DOES NOT PUT ANYTHING IN STONE.
IT'S ALL, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT MORE MEETINGS ON THIS BEFORE WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE IT'S IN STONE.
I, TO OPEN MY ORIGINAL QUESTION, THEY WANNA MAKE A RECOMMENDATION PROPOSAL IN AOR UM, MOVING FORWARD HERE, OR COULD WE, COULD WE, ZACH, COULD WE MOVE THIS TO WANTING MORE INFORMATION? UH, I, I MEAN I, I THINK THAT IF YOU WANTED TO TABLE IT OR NEED TO HAVE SPECIFIC DIRECTION OR QUESTIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, ISSUES THAT WITH TENTATIVE APPROVAL THAT YOU WANT ADDRESS, UM, AT THIS POINT, IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE ARE ANY OUTSTANDING TENTATIVE PLAN ISSUES THAT THEY NEED TO ADDRESS.
SO I THINK THAT IT IS PROBABLY APPROPRIATE TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION OF ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, UM, AND LET THEM THEN GO TO THE BOARD SUPERVISORS FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR INFORMATION AT THAT LEVEL.
I MEAN, THIS IS A RECOMMENDING BODY.
SO I THINK IT, BASED ON WHAT THE ENGINEERS ARE, WHAT, WHAT THE PROFESSIONALS ARE TELLING ME OR WHAT I'M HEARING, IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY, YOU KNOW, IT'S READY FOR SOME SORT OF RECOMMENDATION.
YOU ABLE TO DO THAT? I'LL DO IT IF YOU I CAN DO THAT, RIGHT? I CAN STEP OUT AND DO THAT.
SO I'LL MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WE APPROVE THIS TO GO TO THE NEXT STEPS OF PRELIMINARY AND, UH, TRY TO FIGURE OUT IF WE CAN FIX THE STEEP SLOPE ISSUE, GET JEN MORE INVOLVED IF THE HER COMPANY MORE INVOLVED AND SEE WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE SO WE CAN DO THE WORK THAT BILL'S RECOMMENDING SO THAT WE CAN SEE IF THIS CAN BE FIXED.
SO MY RECOMMENDATION IS WE MOVE FORWARD TO THE NEXT STAGE OF THIS PROCESS.
WE'RE WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE IN, WE'RE IN THE VOTING PROCESS, MA'AM.
UM, I, I, I FEEL WE NEED TO GET SOME OF THESE ENGINEERING ISSUES DRAFTED.
UH, OF ALL THESE POINTS ARE THE GREAT POINTS.
UH, AND AS YOU SAID, WE RECOGNIZE THE ISSUES.
[01:20:01]
IS WHERE THAT INFORMATION IS GONNA GET FLUSHED OUT.UM, STORM WATER CALCS, TRAFFIC, DESIGN OF RETAINING WALLS, WHETHER A GIAN WALL IS APPROPRIATE OR NOT, UH, TRAFFIC, THE DESAL LANE, ALL OF THAT STUFF GETS WORKED OUT THE NEXT STEP.
RIGHT? SO, UM, UH, WELL ALL OF THAT SAID, AS YOU SAID, WE'VE GOT A LOT, UH, TO COVER YET.
AND I THINK, UH, THE, THE PROJECT NEEDS TO GO TO THAT STEP.
SO I SECOND, I SECOND THAT MOTION SO WE GOT A MOTION AND A SECOND.
I FEEL THAT YES, DEFINITELY THIS CAN BE DEVELOPED, BUT NOT NECESSARILY WITH THE NUMBER OF HOMES THAT ARE SHOWN AND THE WAY THAT IT'S LAID OUT.
SO I CAN'T, YOU SHOULD GO BACK TO SQUARE ONE BEFORE IT GETS TO THE ENGINEERING STAGE.
PUT ALL THE PRESSURE ON YOU, NICOLE.
SO JUST WHILE YOU'RE THINKING, IF IT IS A TIE, WHERE DOES THAT GO? HOW DOES THAT GO TO THE SUPERVISORS? UM, THE, THE TIE VOTE WOULD BE A, A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE NILE.
DID YOU HEAR THAT? A RECOMMENDATION TIE VOTE? WHAT? TIE VOTE WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION FOR DENIAL.
WHERE WOULD DEFEAT THE MOTION? I'M REALLY TORN ABOUT THIS TO BE HONEST.
UM, BUT WHAT JERRY SAID, I AGREE WITH THAT IT NEEDS TO GO TO THE NEXT STEP SO THE PROFESSIONALS CAN LOOK AT IT MORE CLOSELY AND MAKE THE DECISIONS THAT COULD, YOU KNOW, FLUSH OUT THE PROBLEMS BEFORE IT EVER COULD POSSIBLY GET TO THE NEXT ROUND OF APPROVALS.
I MEAN, I DON'T WAS THAT A YAY THEN WAS BUT THAT, OR IS THAT MOVE TO THE NEXT STEP? I THINK IT HAS TO GET THERE.
AND THAT'S NOT SAYING THAT WE LOVE THIS OR WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THIS OR WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT, BUT THERE HAS TO GET INTO THE HANDS OF RIGHT PEOPLE.
WE, YOU KNOW, NOT TO PUT PRESSURE ON JEN, BUT WE HAVEN'T HEARD HER OPINION ON THIS BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING YET.
TOM, YOU KNOW, ONE, LET ME THROW ONE OTHER THING IN THERE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HEARD CLEARLY WITH THE VIDEOS AND, AND, AND ALL THAT THE FOLKS PRESENTED, I MEAN, EXISTING CONDITIONS OUT THERE AND IT'S UNIMPROVED STATE ARE NOT GREAT, ARE NOT GOOD EITHER.
AND, AND I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT WITH SOLID ENGINEERING, YOU CAN SOLVE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES, YOU KNOW? UH, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THERE'S ADDITIONAL IMPERVIOUS, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT IS NOT, IT'S NOT ALL BAD FOLKS.
I MEAN, ENGINEERS, THAT'S, THAT'S, UH, JEN'S JOB IS TO, UH, YOU TO CHECK THAT STORM WATER DESIGN THAT THEIR ENGINEERS CAN DO.
AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE HOPE IS, AND, AND THE FAITH IS THAT IT'LL GET BETTER THAN IT IS NOW, WASN'T SHE? SO IF YOU DO NOTHING, IF YOU DO NOTHING, YOU'RE SLIPPING HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM AND THEN SHE'S GONNA SOLVE THE MIDDLE EAST.
WELL, ISN'T THAT JEN WAS OUT THERE ALREADY, RIGHT? AND GAVE HER APPROVAL AND YOU'RE STILL NOT WORKING OUT, RIGHT? I DON'T, SHE SHE'S NOT GIVING HER APPROVAL.
SHE HASN'T GIVEN HER APPROVAL.
SHE HASN'T HAD ENOUGH INFORMATION TO GIVE ANY OPINION AT THIS POINT, IS WHAT SHE SAID.
WE'RE GONNA ASK FOR MORE INFORMATION BY MOVING THIS TO THE NEXT SECOND.
IT COULD STILL WAIVE, BE DENIED.
SO WE GOT A VOTE OF THREE TO ONE TO MOVE IT TO THE NEXT STEP.
WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE ON WITH OUR AGENDA.
YOUR, SO THE REST OF OUR AGENDA.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
JEFF, YOU WANT TALK ABOUT FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS? YEAH.UM, JULY WE CANCELED, WELL CHANCE TO, I MEAN, JULY 3RD.
AND THEN I'VE HAD A DISCUSSION WITH THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
WE MAY NOT HAVE THIS CONFLICT NEXT YEAR.
IT, IT WASN'T A HOLIDAY THAT THEY, IT WAS ON THEIR RADAR.
I I, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THEM, BUT IT WASN'T A HOLIDAY THAT THEY APPROVED LAST YEAR.
SO, UM, SO JULY 3RD WE HAD CANCELED PREVIOUSLY.
WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT 4 25 SOUTH MENNONITE ROAD, THE NINE LOT SUBDIVISION THAT'S
[01:25:01]
THERE.OKAY, WE'LL WAIT A MINUTE FOLKS.
WE STILL GOT A MEETING GOING ON, SO IF WE COULD MOVE IT OUT TO THE HALLWAY IF YOU'VE GOT QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION POINTS.
IF NOT, PLEASE BE QUIET SO WE CAN CONTINUE OUR MEETING.
UM, JULY 17TH, 4 25 SOUTH MENNONITE ROAD.
IT'S A NINE LOT SUBDIVISION THAT WILL BE TALKING ABOUT.
YOU KNOW, UH, WE ALL, WE'VE ALL SEEN THE PLANS.
WE'LL ALSO BE TALKING ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
I'M HOPING IT HAS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT DRAFT OF ACTION ITEMS AND, UH, AND WHERE WE'RE AT AND MOVING TO THE NEXT STEP SO WE CAN GET THAT IN THE PROCESS FOR THE BOARD TO APPROVE IT.
AUGUST 7TH AND AUGUST 21ST ARE SORT OF TO BE DETERMINED, UM, SORT OF HOLDING THEM OPEN AT THIS POINT.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT WE HAVE QUEUED UP.
UM, IN TERMS OF, WE DID JUST GET NEW PLANS FOR IROQUOIS DRIVE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER THE THREE LOT SUBDIVISION YEP.
ON IROQUOIS DRIVE FROM ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.
IT IS NOW A TWO LOT SUBDIVISION ON IROQUOIS DRIVE WITHOUT A TURNAROUND.
CUL-DE-SAC, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, BUT, WE'LL, THOSE PLANS, UM, I HAVE TO SEND THE UPDATE OUT ON THOSE, THE ENGINEERS HAVE THEM RIGHT NOW, BUT I'LL SEND AN, AN ELECTRONIC UPDATE THOSE OUT TOMORROW.
UM, WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE THAT MAYBE SOMETIME IN AUGUST.
UM, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT R FOR BAPTIST.
I DON'T, I HAVE NOT HAD A CONVERSATION WITH 'EM.
AS YOU SAID EARLIER, I JUST RECEIVED A VOICEMAIL AND AN EMAIL SAYING WE WANT TO BULLET BE PULLED OFF THE AGENDA.
AND THEY DIDN'T EXPLAIN WHY I RETURNED THEIR PHONE CALL TODAY AND WAS NOT, DID NOT HEAR FROM ANYBODY.
SO, UM, SO, BUT I MEAN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE ON AT SOME POINT, RIGHT? I I WOULD ASSUME THEY'LL BE ON AT SOME POINT.
YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT AN ACTIVE APPLICATION.
IT'S REALLY A PRE-APPLICATION.
SO WE'RE NOT UNDER A TIME CLOCK.
I'M NOT GONNA BE RUSHING THEM OR HAVING A SPECIAL MEETING JUST FOR THEM.
UN I MEAN, UNLESS WE THINK IT'S GONNA BE WELL ATTENDED AS TONIGHT'S WAS SO THAT WE CAN HAVE IT AND FOCUS JUST ON THAT.
BUT I'M SURE IT WILL BE WELL ATTENDED.
I I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR AGENDA REQUESTS ARE AT THIS POINT BECAUSE ALL THEY ASKED WAS TO BE PULLED OFF THE AGENDA AND WE ALL WE KNOW IS WHAT THE PLAN THEY SUBMITTED TO US.
I, I THINK THERE'S PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC THAT PROBABLY KNOW MORE THAN WE DO BECAUSE WE'RE, OR BAPTIST CHURCH HAS HAD I THINK A FEW PUBLIC MEETINGS OR MEETINGS WITH THE RESIDENTS.
NONE OF US WERE IN THE, IN ATTENDANCE OF THAT.
WE DON'T HAVE MINUTES OF THAT.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT WAS SAID OR WHAT WAS DONE AT THOSE MEETINGS.
SO WE'RE WALKING INTO THIS BLIND AS ANYBODY ELSE.
BUT THERE IS A LOT OF, THERE'S A LOT OF BUZZ OUT THERE ON OH YEAH.
FACEBOOK AND ALLISON, I WOULD RECOMMEND DON'T TAKE THIS ONE.
I'M NOT, UM, TAKE THE THREE HOT SUBDIVISION ONE ON AIRCO DRIVE.
SO AUGUST 7TH AND AUGUST 21ST.
WE'LL, WE'LL MAKE THAT A DETERMINATION ON THE 17TH OF JULY AND GO FROM THERE.
UM, IF YOU HAVE, I KNOW AUGUST FOR ME PERSONALLY AS A VACATION THIRD MONTH, IF YOU HAVE VACATIONS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
I MEAN, IF WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A QUORUM, I CAN SCHEDULE AROUND THAT.
I JUST NEED TO KNOW WELL IN ADVANCE SO THAT WE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO SIT HERE AND GO, OH WAIT, WHO'S NOT COMING? AND WE DON'T HAVE A QUORUM.
SO I JUST, IF YOU KNOW OF THE VACATION COMING UP AS TOM HAS DONE BEFORE, PREVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, FROM, I THINK IT WAS MARCH, YOU SAID YOU COULDN'T BE HERE, SO I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT.
UH, THEN THE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING ON JULY 17TH, WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT PLASTIC BAGS AND GRASS CUTTING ORDINANCES BEFORE JOE WENT AWAY ON VACATION.
I MAKE SURE HE HAD THE ORDINANCES.
WE WILL BE LOOKING AT THOSE AND WE'LL BRING SOMETHING TO THOSE MEETINGS.
AND THEN, UM, BILL FELTON AND I HAVE ARRANGED, WELL, MORE BILL FELTON THAN ME HAVE ARRANGED TO HAVE SOMEONE FROM THE LOCAL ACTION PLAN, LOCAL CLIMATE ACTION PLAN DISCUSSION ON ZOOM.
I STILL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW THAT SETS UP IN THIS ROOM.
THAT WAS GONNA BE MY QUESTION TO YOU.
HAVE WE FIGURED THAT OUT THAT WE CAN INVITE THAT LADY FROM THE DC AND R? WE CAN.
I'M JUST NOT QUITE SURE HOW IT'S GONNA WORK.
I'LL SET THE MEETING UP THIS WEEK AND WE'LL, I'LL GET THE INVITATION TO HER.
SO WE DON'T HAVE A ZOOM DOESN'T WORK VERY WELL IN THIS ROOM BECAUSE WE HAVE THE SWAGGY CAMERAS, SO THEY'RE ON THEIR OWN SORT OF THING.
SO WE HAVE TO SET UP SOMETHING ELSE.
IT IS A LITTLE AWKWARD, BUT IT CAN BE DONE.
I DID, I DON'T THINK ANY EXPECTED THE MEETING TO GO THE WAY IT DID TONIGHT, AND I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S, UH, PATIENCE AND SUPPORT AND, UH, THANK YOU GUYS, ANTHONY, JEN FOR HANGING HERE WITH US.
SORRY THAT YOU HAD TO GET HERE FOR THIS ONE FOR THE FIRST TIME HERE.
BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT.
YOU DID A GREAT JOB FOR US AND WE, WE APPRECIATE
[01:30:01]
IT.SO, UH, WITH THAT, I'LL UH, TAKE A MEETING TO AD UH, MOTION TO ADJOURN.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I SECOND NICOLE.