[00:00:05]
[CALL TO ORDER]
OF THE, UH, UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION.AND, UH, I THINK EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE A COPY OF THE AGENDA IN FRONT OF THEM.
AND I DON'T HAVE MY MIC ON THERE.
I DUNNO IF THAT'S BETTER OR NOT.
[MOTION TO APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA]
WE'LL TAKE A MOTION, FIRST OF ALL, AND NICOLE HAS STEP OUT FOR A SECOND, BUT I'LL TAKE A MOTION, FIRST OF ALL, TO APPROVE THE, UH, AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING.WE APPROVE THE, UH, AGENDA FOR TONIGHT.
[ PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AGENDA ITEMS]
NEXT THING ON THE, UH, THE, UH, AGENDA IS, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT ON NON AGENDA ITEMS. THIS WOULD BE THINGS THAT ARE NOT ON THIS PARTICULAR AGENDA THAT ANYBODY WANTS TO MAKE A COMMENT FROM PAST, UH, ISSUES.AND IT SOUNDS LIKE A GUY'S MOVING THERE, LIKE HE WANTS TO DO THAT.
JUST, UH, COME UP AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
UH, MY NAME IS JOHN WESSLER, 180 COUNTRY RIDGE DRIVE WARD, UH, JUST, JUST OUT OF, UH, THE PARK HOUSE STUFF.
AND I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE'S A PLACE FOR REQUEST FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION WHEN YOU WORK WITH 'EM, BECAUSE I KNOW WHEN THEY WERE HERE DOING ALL THE, UM, DISCUSSIONS WITH, UM, THE SUPERVISORS ABOUT CHANGING THE, UH, ZONING, THAT THERE WAS ROOM FOR DISCUSSION FOR THEM TO DECIDE AND WORK WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THAT THE HOUSES WERE NOT SET IN STONE OF WHERE THEY WOULD PUT 'EM.
UM, I SENT AN EMAIL TO TO THEM AND THEY SAID TO COME IN AND TO SPEAK WITH YOU GUYS AND TO SEND JEFF AN EMAIL.
I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S ANY ROOM FOR NEGOTIATION OR ADJUSTMENTS, BUT MY REQUEST WOULD BE THERE WAS ORIGINALLY NOT ANYTHING PLANNED TO BE ON THE WESTERN SIDE OF OLD STATE WHERE HANER AND OLD STATE COMES.
UM, SO I, OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE THE PENNY PACKERS THAT LIVE RIGHT THERE AT THE FARM.
I KNOW THEY'RE GONNA BE PUTTING TOGETHER PROPOSAL TO PRESENT SOMETHING TO YOU OR TO, UM, TO PARK, UH, TO, TO THOSE FOLKS.
SO I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS CAN DO ABOUT KEEPING IT, KEEPING IT OFF OF THAT.
I MEAN, LIKE, OBVIOUSLY WHEN I BOUGHT THE HOUSE, I WAS TOLD IT WAS OPEN SPACE, INSTITUTIONAL AND OBVIOUSLY FOUGHT FOR THIS TO STAY THAT THE WAY THAT IT WAS.
I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S ANYTHING TO DO, BUT I GUESS I'M NOT ASKING AND NOT PUTTING A FORMAL REQUEST IN.
BUT AGAIN, I KNOW THAT THE CHANCES OF THEM CONCEDING TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT PROBABLY SLIM, BUT I'D RATHER ASK THAN NOT ASK.
WELL, WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK IS POSITIVE THAT CAME OUT OF THE, THIS WHOLE PROCESS THAT WE'RE NOW INVOLVED, AND JOE, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I SAY SOMETHING STUPID, WHICH I'M, I HAVE A TENDENCY TO DO, UM, IS THAT WE NOW STILL PLANNING COMMISSION AND ULTIMATELY THE SU UH, THE, UH, SUPERVISORS STILL, WE HAVE THE CONTROL IN THE PLANNING STAGE.
WE CAN COMMENT ON SETBACKS AND STREET LOCATIONS AND RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN, BUT WE CERTAINLY CAN GIVE THEM OUR OPINION, WHICH AGAIN, THEY SAID THEY WERE OPEN TO IT.
AND THEY SAID THEY'D BE OPEN TO MOVING IT BACK ACROSS ALL THE STATE POSSIBLY AND KEEPING THAT OPEN.
SO ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS OF THE, OF THE VOTE GOING THE WAY IT DID AND NOT HAVING TO, YOU KNOW, GO FURTHER AND HOPEFULLY GET INTO A COURT SITUATION, IS THAT WE CAN WE, YOU KNOW, UH, KEEP THE CONTROL ASPECT IN THE PLANNING STAGE.
SO THAT'S A, THAT'S A GOOD THING.
AND I, I HOPE WHEN IT GETS TO THAT STAGE, YOU'LL COME BACK OKAY.
AND I HOPE THE FRIENDS FROM, UH, PARKHOUSE WILL BE HERE BECAUSE, UH, YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT IT AS EVERYBODY WANTED THIS SITUATION.
I THINK PARKHOUSE DID A GREAT, THE FRIENDS PARK DID A GREAT JOB IN, IN, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I THINK THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY REALLY GOT 'EM TO COME DOWN ON THEIR, TO THEIR, ON THEIR PLAN.
SO, AND WE'RE STILL GOT SOME CONTROL.
SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT IT WILL HAPPEN AND, AND THOSE THINGS WILL BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.
SO THAT YOU, SO, SO I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY I'LL TRY TO COME BACK.
I MEAN, I, I'VE ALREADY PUT UP, SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON THIS AS IT IS COMING IN HERE, AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS SINCE 2013 OR 14.
AND I WENT DOWN TO THE COURTHOUSE AND SPOKE IN FRONT OF SHAPIRO.
I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THIS AND AGAINST THE ENTIRE TIME.
BUT, UM, SO SETBACKS WISE, UH, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD WITH THE SETBACKS ARE? THE STUFF'S NOT SET YET.
NOT EVEN, IT'S NOT EVEN A DESIGN A PRESENTING, BECAUSE ORIGINALLY WE WERE INSTITUTIONAL, I THOUGHT IT WAS 250 FEET SETBACK WITH BERMS AND TREES.
AND THEN I'M GUESSING NOW HE IS, IT'S NOT GONNA BE THE SAME.
YOU NEED TO LOOK UNDER THE, SO THE, IF I, JUST TO CLARIFY ONE PART OF IT.
SO THERE'S AN ORDINANCE THAT THE OTHER, THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENED SO FAR IS THE ORDINANCE, RIGHT? SEE WHETHER ANYBODY TAKES AN APPEAL OF THAT.
SO FOR 30 DAYS, EVERYBODY JUST WAITS TO SEE, OKAY, LET'S ASSUME THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
NOW THEY HAVE AN ORDINANCE AND THEY HAVE TO OPERATE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THAT ORDINANCE.
SO THERE WON'T, WHERE THEY MOVED THINGS AROUND IN THE PLAN, THEY CAN ONLY GO SO FAR WITHOUT, THEY CAN DO SOME OF THAT BECAUSE, BUT THEY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE THAT THEY THEMSELVES SOUGHT TO, TO HAVE.
AND WHEN YOU, AND THAT HAS EVERYTHING IN IT
[00:05:01]
SOUP TO NUTS ON IN TERMS OF DETAILS.BUT AS YOU SEE FROM OTHER PLANS THAT COME THROUGH HERE, EVEN WHEN THERE IS NO NEW ZONING, THERE IS GIVE AND TAKE, THERE IS FEEDBACK ON THE LAND PLANS.
THE DEVELOPERS DO COME IN AND SAY, WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT PUTTING THIS ROAD OVER HERE OR THIS OVER HERE? AND IF IT CAN STILL HAPPEN WITHIN THE, THE NEW ORDINANCE, THEY WOULD BE EXPECTED TO DO THAT.
WE HAVE PEOPLE ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT WHO ARE WORKING THROUGH, YOU KNOW, LAND DEVELOPMENT.
SO THERE IS STILL A LOT OF GIVE, GIVE AND TAKE THROUGH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
BUT IT'S, IT'S A NEGOTIATION OF THE TYPE THAT HAPPENS.
THEY COME, THEY, THEY GET THESE GUYS GIVE FEEDBACK.
THEY SAY, OKAY, WE, WE CAN AGREE TO THIS, BUT WE CAN'T AGREE TO THIS.
BUT IT'S NOT THE PROTRACTED WAY OF THE, THAT IT WAS DONE LIKE FOR THE ORDINANCE.
IT'S MORE LINEAR AND MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD AND HAPPENS HERE AFTER WE HAVE THE PLANS IN FRONT OF US.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO COMMENT ON ANYTHING ON THE AGENDA, BUT WITHOUT IT, THE PLANS BEING IN FRONT OF US, THERE'S REALLY NOT THAT MUCH YET TO SET ALL, AND ANTHONY, JIM HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING.
THEY HAVE TO GET INVOLVED AND THEY'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE THEIR COMMENTS AND THEIR PUSH BACK AND THEIR FEEDBACK.
SO THERE'S A LOT MORE TO COME IN THIS THING.
I MEAN, YEAH, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO GET, JUMP THE CURVE AND SEE, THERE'S A PRELIMINARY CONVERSATION WHERE YOU GUYS ARE LIKE, HEY, THIS, YOU KNOW, YOU SAID YOU'D DO THIS.
WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO KEEP IT UP THERE IN YOUR YEP.
WHEN YOU'RE PLANNING FOR IT AND INSTEAD OF COMING HERE AND THEN, YOU KNOW, GOING, OKAY, WELL LET'S MOVE THAT AROUND NOW.
I JUST, I KNOW MR. PENNY PACKER.
I KNOW HE'S, SO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING.
I KNOW HE'S COMING UP WITH A PROPOSAL FOR, I DON'T KNOW, FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR FOR MR. BERMAN OR WHOEVER'S INVOLVED WITH, UM, THE PROCESS.
'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY THEY HAD THE HORSE, THE HORSE THERE, AND THAT'S A BIG CONCERN OF HAVING ALL THE CONSTRUCTION AND HAVING THE HOUSES RIGHT NEXT TO HIS FARM.
AND SO HE'S OBVIOUSLY MORE VESTED THAN I AM.
AND LIKE I SAY, PLEASE COME BACK WHEN, WHEN, UH, YOU KNOW, IT GETS TO THE NEXT STAGE OF THAT THING, WE, YOU KNOW, JEFF WILL BE ADVERTISING IT.
YOUR FEEDBACK'S MORE THAN WELCOME.
ANYBODY ELSE? I KNOW THIS GUY PIGGYBACK OFF OF, UH, THIS PRESENTATION.
YOU HAVE ONE MORE? UH, LET'S SEE.
SO THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK BILL FELTON, 1 33 OLD STATE ROAD.
UH, OF COURSE EVERYBODY'S AWARE THAT THE, UH, SUPERVISORS VOTED TO, UH, CHANGE THE ZONING, UH, TO THE PARKHOUSE PROPERTY.
YOU MAY ALSO KNOW THAT THE PARKHOUSE FRIENDS WERE ADVOCATING FOR A REDUCED DENSITY DEVELOPMENT AND INCREASING THE REQUIREMENT FOR OPEN SPACE.
WE WERE ALSO ADVOCATING THAT ALL PROPOSED HOUSING BE AGE RESTRICTED AND THE OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS BE MET BY PRESERVING THE SOUTH PORTION OF THE PROPERTY ALONG SECOND AVENUE BETWEEN OLD STATE ROAD AND THE SCHUYLKILL RIVER.
FULL DISCLOSURE, AS I'M SURE YOU KNOW, I LIVE ON OLD STATE ROAD BETWEEN SECOND AVENUE AND HAFFNER ROAD.
UH, I UNDERSTAND THAT, UH, UNDER THE DRAFT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CONSIDERATION IS BEING GIVEN TO CONSERVE LAND ALONG THE SECOND AVENUE CORRIDOR FROM OLD STATE ROAD TO THE TOWNSHIP OWNED LAND THAT IS BISECTED BY MINGO CREEK AT THE CORNER OF SPRINGER TOWN ROAD AND SECOND AVENUE.
AND THAT SKETCH I JUST HANDED OUT IS SHOWING ALL THOSE PROPERTIES AND, YOU KNOW, COLORED IN, IN GREEN.
IF THOSE LANDS WERE CONSERVED, INCLUDING THE SOUTH PORTION OF THE PARKHOUSE PROPERTY, HOW THAT WOULD CONNECT FROM THAT MINGO CREEK PROPERTY ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE SCOVILLE RIVER.
UM, IF THIS IS THE GOAL TO CONSERVE OPEN SPACE LAND, THEN CONSERVING THE SOUTH PORTION OF THE PARK HOUSE PROPERTY WOULD BE A GOAL THAT WOULD PROVIDE CONNECTIVITY TO ALL THESE LANDS AND PARCELS FROM THE CREEK OF THE RIVER.
WHEN DESIGNING FOR OPEN SPACE CONNECTIVITY TO EXISTING PARKS AND PRESERVED LAND IS A PRIORITY CONSIDERATION FOR LAND CONSERVATION ORGANIZATIONS AND FOR THE MUNICIPAL COUNTY AND STATE DEPARTMENTS THAT MAY BE INVESTING TO ACQUIRE AND IMPROVE OPEN SPACE.
AS THE DESIGN PLANNING PROCESS MOVES FORWARD, PLEASE CONSIDER CONNECTIVITY FOR THIS OPEN SPACE CONFIGURATION.
AND AS I SAID TO THE OTHER GENTLEMEN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LONG WAY TO GO IN THIS PROCESS AND, YOU KNOW, IT'LL BE A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS YET.
AGAIN, ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK WHAT THE SUPERVISORS DID AND FOR US IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE STILL HAVE SOME CONTROL OVER THAT DESIGN PROCESS
[00:10:01]
TRYING TO GET OUT IN FRONT.AND PLEASE COME BACK WHEN, WHEN WE GET, UH, ANYBODY ELSE, UH, ANY, UH, NON AGENDA DISCUSSION ITEMS TONIGHT.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
GONNA MOVE ON WITH THE AGENDA AND EVERYBODY'S GOT THAT IN FRONT OF US.NEXT WE GONNA DO IS, UM, MY, MY ORDER'S A LITTLE OFF.
YOU WANNA DO THE MINUTES FIRST? YOU CAN DO THE MINUTES, DO THAT TECHNICAL STUFF TO GET GOING.
SO LET'S DO THE, UH, LET'S DO, UH, THE MINUTES, WHICH ARE ATTACHED IN YOUR PACKET THAT EVERYBODY'S GOT THERE.
MAY ONE AND MAY 15TH, UH, WHICH WERE BOTH PROBABLY PARKHOUSE, UH, DISCUSSIONS.
UH, UH, BUT IF EVERYBODY'S KIND OF READ THROUGH THEM, I UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON WITH PARKHOUSE.
I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES.
UH, CAN WE DO BOTH SAME TIME, JEFF? ALRIGHT.
WE'RE GONNA, WE GOT A MOTION FROM JERRY TO APPROVE MAY ONE AND MAY 15TH AND TAKE A SECOND.
SO WE'VE APPROVED THE MINUTES, UH, FROM THOSE TWO THINGS.
SO INTRODUCTION AND DISCUSSION OF TOWNHOUSE PROPOSAL FOR ONE THING.
WHAT IS, WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT? JEFF? I'LL MET ALLISON.
WE HAVEN'T SEEN ALLISON IN A WHILE.
I'VE BEEN, UH, STAYING AWAY FROM THE, UH, MAIN EVENT, SO OH, YEAH.
YOU, YOU'VE BEEN OVERSHADOWED BY CLARK.
UM, WITH ME TONIGHT IS MIKE BROWN FROM LENNAR, AND, UH, WE'RE HERE TO JUST SHOW YOU AN INTRODUCTION TO, UM, A PROPOSAL FOR 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE.
CAMPUS DRIVE IS PART OF THE, UM, PROVIDENCE CORPORATE CENTER, AND IT'S CURRENTLY, IT'S APPROXIMATELY ALMOST 18 ACRE PROPERTY, UM, WHICH IS, UM, CURRENTLY APPROVED, IMPROVED, I SHOULD SAY, WITH, UM, ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR UNFORTUNATELY VACANT, UM, OFFICE BUILDINGS IN THE TOWNSHIP RIGHT NOW.
AND I KNOW CONCEPTUALLY THIS CARD OR THIS PARTICULAR SITE, UH, WE WERE NOT AT THAT MEETING, BUT THIS WAS DISCUSSED AT THE RECENT, UM, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN MEETING THAT WAS HELD, UM, BY THE SUPERVISOR SPECIFICALLY TO TALK ABOUT VARIOUS LOCATIONS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, AND, UH, LENNAR HAS THE SITE UNDER AGREEMENT.
THE BUILDING ON THE SITE TODAY IS VACANT.
IT IS APPROXIMATELY 85,000 SQUARE FEET.
THEY'RE OVER 500 PARKING SPACES ON THE SITE.
THIS PARTICULAR SITE IS PART OF, UM, A LARGER CAMPUS MASTER PLAN, UH, WHICH INCLUDES THE COURTYARD BY MARRIOTT HOTEL NEXT DOOR, SOME OF THE OTHER HOTELS, OTHER VACANT OFFICE BUILDINGS ON CAMPUS DRIVE, UM, AND MADISON.
AND, UH, IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED IO DISTRICT, WHICH SORT OF TIES EVERYTHING TOGETHER FROM AN AREA IN BULK STANDPOINT.
SO OVERALL, THIS PARTICULAR SITE WAS APPROVED FOR A LARGER OFFICE BUILDING THAT WAS ACTUALLY BUILT AS WELL AS A, A PARKING GARAGE, WHICH IF THE WHOLE OFFICE BUILDING HAD BEEN BUILT COULD HAVE BEEN THERE.
AND ITS, UM, THE WAY THIS BREAKS DOWN, EVERYTHING'S ON A TRACK WIDE BASIS.
SO TODAY, UNDER THE CURRENT RESTRICTIONS AND ALLOCATION, UM, THE MAXIMUM PERMIT PERMITTED IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE ON THE SITE WOULD ACTUALLY BE GREATER THAN WHAT WE'RE SHOWING ON THIS PLAN.
I JUST WANNA GIVE A LITTLE SORT OF UP LIKE, OVERVIEW, BUT THE IDEA HERE WOULD BE WE WOULD OBVIOUSLY NEED A REZONING FOR THIS.
WE'D LIKE TO WALK YOU THROUGH THE PLAN AND YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS AND JUST GET YOUR INITIAL FEEDBACK, UM, ON THIS PROPOSAL AND WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT.
SO MIKE, IF YOU WANNA JUST WALK, UM, THE PLANNING COMMISSION THROUGH IT A LITTLE BIT.
I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO LENNAR IS, BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU DON'T, I'M HAPPY TO HAVE THEM GIVE YOU A LITTLE INTRODUCTION AS TO WHO THEY GOT WITH YOU.
UM, AS ALLISON SAID, I'M MIKE FROM LENNAR, AND, UM, I'LL WALK YOU THROUGH THE PLAN WE HAVE HERE.
SO, UH, WHEN WE STARTED DEVELOPING THIS PLAN, WE WERE TRYING TO BE MINDFUL OF IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, EXISTING FEATURES, EXISTING GRADE.
UM, SO WHAT WE'RE SHOWING HERE IS 120, UH, TOWN HOMES.
IT'S A MIX OF THREE STORY AND TWO STORY TOWNS.
UM, THE, ON THE, THE UPPER PART OF THE PAGE THERE, YOU'LL SEE IN KIND OF THAT LIGHT GREEN COLOR.
UM, BACKING TO THE STORMWATER PONDS.
WE'VE GOT 24 OF OUR AVERY MODEL, WHICH IS A 24 FOOT WIDE TWO STORY.
ALL RIGHT, SO THESE ONES UP HERE.
AND THEN, UH, COMING DOWN THE SIDE, SO THESE ARE OUR AVERY REMODEL.
UM, AS I MENTIONED, THOSE ARE, THAT'S A TWO STORY PRODUCT WITH A BASEMENT.
UM, AND THE IDEA THERE IS THAT GRADE FALLS OFF AS YOU HEAD TOWARDS THE EDGE OF THE SITE, THE PERIMETER THERE.
UM, SO WE WOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT FLOOR PLAN TO MAKE UP THE GRADE AND HAVE A WALKOUT BASEMENT ON THOSE, UH, PARTICULAR HOMES.
[00:15:01]
WE HEAD DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PLAN, UH, THESE HERE ARE OUR CHASE MODEL.THAT'S A THREE STORY TOWN HOME SLAB ON GRADE.
UM, IT'S A FRONT ENTRY PRODUCT.
UH, WE HAVE SOME ELEVATIONS THAT WE'LL FLIP OVER TO IN A MOMENT.
AND AGAIN, THE IDEA THERE IS WE'RE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF EXISTING GRADE WHERE, UM, THE REAR OF THOSE HOMES WOULD BE, UM, BURIED INTO THE GRADE.
SO YOU WOULD HAVE YOUR GARAGE AND YOUR ENTRANCE ON THE LOWER LEVEL IN THE FRONT, AND THEN IN THE BACK, UH, IT WOULD BE CLOSE TO GRADE ON THE SECOND STORY.
SO YOUR LIVING LEVEL, WHICH WOULD BE YOUR KITCHEN AND LIVING ROOM, UM, AS WELL AS DINING.
AND THEN IN THE INTERIOR, THE SITE HERE, THE ONES IN THE, THE ORANGE, WE HAVE 71 OF OUR CAMBRIDGE MODEL, WHICH IS AGAIN, A THREE STORY PRODUCT.
UM, THESE HOWEVER ARE, UH, REAR ENTRY AND THEY'RE CENTER CENTERED AROUND, UH, THIS CENTRAL GREEN SPACE HERE, UH, THAT WOULD BE DUAL FUNCTION IS, UH, STORMWATER.
UM, IN TERMS OF PARKING, WE'VE, UH, ALLOCATED AT LEAST TWO SPACES FOR, FOR EACH, UM, EACH HOME HERE.
UH, AS I MENTIONED, THE AVERY ALREADY HAS A TWO CAR GARAGE, AND THEN WE WOULD ANTICIPATE TO, UM, BE ABLE TO PARK TWO CARS IN THE DRIVEWAY.
THE, THE CHASE DOWN HERE IS A SINGLE CAR GARAGE, AND YOU'D BE ABLE TO GET ONE CAR IN THE DRIVEWAY THERE.
AND THEN WE'VE GOT A TWO CAR, UH, REAR ENTRY CONFIGURATION ON ALL OF THE INTERIOR UNITS THERE.
UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE'VE GOT 53 ON STREET, UM, GUEST PARKING SPACES.
UM, IN TERMS OF STORMWATER, I THINK IS, AS ALLISON MENTIONED, THE UM, THE, THE CURRENT ALLOCATION OR AVAILABILITY, UM, FOR IMPERVIOUS HERE WAS ABOUT SEVEN ACRES.
UM, THIS PLAN IS GONNA LAND US RIGHT AROUND SIX ACRES OF IMPERVIOUS SURFACE.
AND THE EXISTING BASIN UP HERE IN THE UPPER LEFT, UH, WOULD BE EXPANDED.
UM, AND THEN WE WOULD ADD SOME ADDITIONAL STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, UM, AS WELL.
JEFF, YOU ABLE TO FLIP TO THE NEXT SLIDE FOR ME PLEASE? SO THIS IS JUST AN OVERLAY OF THE, UM, EXISTING FEATURES WITH OUR PROPOSED PLAN.
UH, THE REASON WE WANTED TO SHOW THIS IS SO YOU COULD GET APPRECIATION FOR THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE THAT'S THERE NOW, AS WELL AS THE, UM, THE TREES.
SO YOU CAN SEE THE, THE PLANTINGS THAT WE HAVE OR THE, THE TREES THAT ARE EXISTING ALONG THE, THE PERIMETER, UM, ARE MINIMALLY IMPACTED BY WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING HERE.
UM, AND THEN OBVIOUSLY WE'D BE DEMOING THE, THE STRUCTURE THAT'S IN THE CENTER OF THE PLANT AS WELL AS THE PARKING SURFACE.
UM, IN ORDER TO MAKE USE THAT, THAT FOR RESIDENTIAL.
IS THIS THE BUILDING OWNED BY PFIZER, OR WAS OWNED BY PFIZER? IS THIS THE PFIZER BUILDING? THIS IS A PFIZER OFFICE BUILDING.
NO, THIS IS THE IRON MOUNTAIN BUILDING.
IS THE IRON OH, THE IRON MOUNTAIN BUILDING.
WHICH THEY HAVEN'T TOUCHED ON, BUT THEY WERE, THE, THE MASTER PLAN FOR THIS ACTUALLY CALLS FOR ANOTHER BUILDING THE SAME SIZE AS THAT EXACT BUILDING THERE.
IT, IT IS APPROVED AND SOMEONE WAS TO COME IN, THEY COULD PUT THAT IN IMMEDIATELY.
I'M NOT, I'M ASSUMING THAT MEANS MORE PARKING AND THINGS LIKE THAT AS WELL.
UM, THAT'S, YEAH, THAT MASTER PLAN THEN SHOWS A, A PARKING STRUCTURE ACTUALLY.
IF YOU PUT IN THAT ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE OF OFFICE, YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO GO VERTICAL AS WELL.
SO 'CAUSE TO YOUR POINT, LIKE IT'S SORT OF MAXED OUT ON THE SURFACE IN TERMS OF PARKING, SO.
UH, AND THEN JUST GIVE YOU A FLAVOR FOR WHAT OUR, UM, OUR PRODUCT WOULD BE.
JEFF, IF YOU CAN FLIP, FLIP TO THE NEXT ONE FOR ME PLEASE.
SO THIS IS OUR, OUR CAMBRIDGE MODEL.
UM, AGAIN, I DON'T WANT ANYBODY GETTING TOO HUNG UP ON, UM, ON ARCHITECTURE, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE STILL A WAYS AWAY FROM HAVING A, HOPEFULLY HAVING AN APPROVAL HERE.
UM, SO WE TEND TO, TO TWEAK THINGS AND CHANGE THINGS TO KIND OF FIT WITHIN THE FABRIC OF THE COMMUNITY, UH, AS WE GO.
BUT THIS IS OUR, OUR CAMBRIDGE, UM, WE'VE GOT IT LISTED AT AROUND 2000 SQUARE FEET.
THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR SOME ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE, UM, ON THE LOWER LEVEL THERE TO BE FINISHED.
UM, SO WE'RE ANTICIPATING ALL OF THESE TO, UH, FINISH OUT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 1,920 500 SQUARE FEET, UH, DEPENDING ON THE, THE FLOOR PLAN.
IF YOU CAN FLIP ONE MORE SLIDE FOR ME, UH, THIS YEAR IS OUR, OUR CHASE GRAND, UM, WHICH IS THAT THAT LOWER, UM, UNIT THAT I SHOWED THAT I MENTIONED WOULD BE KIND OF BURIED INTO GRADE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE, UH, THE EXISTING GRADE THERE.
SO YOU'VE GOT YOUR ENTRANCE ON THE LOWER LEVEL, UM, AND THEN THE, UM, YOU'D BE AT GRADE AT THE, THE, THE BOTTOM OF THE SECOND LEVEL IN THE BACK.
AGAIN, OUR SQUARE FOOTAGE HERE IS LISTED AT JUST OVER 1700 SQUARE FEET.
THAT DOESN'T INCORPORATE ANY FINISHED SPACE OTHER THAN THE ENTRY ON THE, THE LOWER LEVEL THERE.
SO, UM, AND I DON'T HAVE A ELEVATION FOR OUR AVERY.
UM, THAT'S OUR TWO STORY MODEL THAT WE HAVE.
UH, WE ARE BUILDING IT ELSEWHERE, BUT THE ARCHITECTURE'S JUST SO VASTLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I WOULD ULTIMATELY PROPOSE HERE.
UM, DIDN'T WANT TO SHOW THAT, UH, TODAY.
[00:20:01]
THAT WOULD BE OUR WALKOUT CONFIGURATION.WE'D FINISH THAT LOWER LEVEL AND FINISH OFF AROUND 2,500 SQUARE FEET.
ANY, UH, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS I'M TRYING TO ANSWER.
ARE YOU GONNA GET TO THE POINT ABOUT WHAT NEEDS ZONING CHANGE? I'LL LET ALLISON HANDLE THAT.
SO, UM, THIS PARTICULAR DISTRICT, UM, CURRENTLY AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, IT'S THE IO TWO DISTRICT, WHICH IS ONE OF THE OFFICE INTERCHANGE DISTRICTS.
THIS ONE ALREADY HAS THE RESIDENTIAL USE GROUP IN IT, WHICH WAS CREATED FOR THE APARTMENTS.
AND I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT ONE IS RUG TWO
SO I MEAN, THE THOUGHT WOULD BE, HERE AGAIN, THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS BASED ON THE ORIGINAL MASTER PLAN FOR THE SITE AND COVENANTS THAT APPLY TO THIS AREA IN GENERAL, THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S INFRASTRUCTURE, THERE'S HERE, THERE'S INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S TIED TOGETHER.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S CERTAIN LIMITS ALREADY THAT WE WOULD WANNA LEAVE IN PLACE.
UM, SO I THINK THE THOUGHT WOULD BE THAT A, AN ADDITIONAL RESIDENTIAL USE GROUP WOULD BE ADDED TO THIS DISTRICT BECAUSE THE MULTI-FAMILY ONE IS MORE GENEROUS THAN EVEN WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING HERE.
AND I DON'T THINK THE TOWNSHIP NOR OTHER, THE OTHER, UH, OWNER IN THE CENTER WANTS TO SEE MORE MULTIFAMILY HERE.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO TAILOR THAT DOWN.
BUT, UM, THE IDEA WOULD NOT BE TO DO A MAP CHANGE.
IT WOULD BE, UM, A TEXT AMENDMENT TO ALLOW THIS TYPE OF USE IN THE DISTRICT.
WHAT'S YOUR, WHAT'S YOUR TARGET CUSTOMER JUST SURE.
UM, SO WE'RE ANTICIPATING, UM, A MIX BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE IN, UM, OTHER SIMILAR DEVELOPMENTS, UH, WITHIN PENNSYLVANIA AND DELAWARE, WHICH IS OUR, OUR REGION.
UM, SO PROBABLY, UH, FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS, UH, SOME, UM, YOUNG FAMILIES.
AND THEN, UH, THE TWO STORY PRODUCT MAY APPEAL TO SOME, UM, EMPTY NESTERS OR THOSE LOOKING TO DOWNSIZE OUT OF A SINGLE FAMILY.
ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THAT WE'RE GONNA BE CONCERNED ABOUT MOVING FORWARD AND BECAUSE OF OUR, WHAT DID YOU CALL IT? EARLIER AS THE MAIN EVENT? YES.
YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE BIG PUSHBACKS AND RIGHTFULLY SO WAS THE EFFECT ON THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
AND, YOU KNOW, RIGHT DOWN THE STREET ACROSS FROM WEGMANS, WE JUST APPROVED THE NEW APARTMENT, NOT AN ADDITIONAL APARTMENT BUILDING.
ANOTHER 117 APARTMENTS IN THERE.
AND ONE THING I'M GOING TO LOOK AT REAL CLOSELY AT THIS IS HOW IT'S GONNA AFFECT THEIR SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
'CAUSE THIS IS, YOU KNOW, WHERE THIS IS LOCATED, IT'S PROBABLY OAKS ELEMENTARY.
AND, UH, I JUST DON'T THINK OAKS CAN HANDLE IT AND WHERE KIDS, SO THAT'S GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH.
I'M GONNA HAVE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH BEFORE WE GO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S GONNA BE COMING AND FIGHT FOR THIS ONE LIGHT, LIGHT, UH, THE BANE OF BED BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S UP ON THAT HILL AND NOBODY SEES IT.
AND, AND I THINK IT'S PROBABLY BETTER THAN THOSE EMPTY OFFICE BUILDINGS, THAT'S FOR SURE.
YOU KNOW, EITHER PFIZER OR THE, UH, IRON MOUNTAIN.
BUT, UM, I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT HOW IT'S GONNA AFFECT THEIR SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
AND WE CAN GET YOU SOME INFORMATION BASED ON OTHER SIMILAR COMMUNITIES WE'VE BUILT IN TERMS OF WHO OUR DEMOGRAPHIC IS, UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT WILL VARY DEPENDING ON LOCATION AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S SOME MARGIN OF ERROR THERE.
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE COMPARING TO OTHER LOCATIONS.
AND, AND AGAIN, I'M JUST, I'M JUST THROWING THAT OUT THERE.
ONE THING I'M GONNA BE BE LOOKING AT AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, AS YOU GUYS MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, HOW IT'S GONNA AFFECT THAT, THAT ASPECT.
SO ANY, ANYTHING YOU CAN GIVE US THAT'LL HELP US UNDERSTAND THAT OR FEEL BETTER ABOUT IT, UH, WOULD BE, WOULD BE VERY SURE.
WE'LL PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER FOR YOU.
WE NEED REAL NUMBERS TOO,
THIS, THIS WAS VERY SORT OF PRELIMINARY TONIGHT.
WE JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU AN INTRODUCTION AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M GIVING YOU BACK.
JUST SOME PRELIMINARY THOUGHTS THAT COME TO MY HEAD.
THAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT ISSUE.
AND WE WILL, WE WILL CERTAINLY PUT THAT TOGETHER AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
WE ALSO, WE'RE GOING, WE'RE ALSO PUTTING TOGETHER TRAFFIC ANALYSIS JUST SO, UH, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE PLAN, WE'RE USING THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE AND EXISTING ACCESS POINTS TO THE SITE ON THIS CONCEPT PLAN.
BUT WE DO WANT TO SUPPLY REAL TIME TRAFFIC DATA TO YOU AS WELL.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE BOARD? NOT AT THIS POINT.
[ APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON June 5, 2024]
ON TO, UH, LEWIS ROAD,[00:25:01]
UH, THE LEWIS ROADHOUSE, UH, ISSUE.AND IS SOMEBODY HERE FROM THAT GROUP? WE ARE.
LINDSEY DUNN ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT, AND I HAVE NEW VIOLA FROM
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THE BOARD RECALLS THIS.
WE, WE ACTUALLY ALREADY HAVE OBTAINED, UM, FINAL PLAN APPROVAL FOR THIS PROJECT.
UH, FOLLOWING THAT, A COUPLE OF ITEMS CAME TO OUR RADAR THAT CONCERNED EXCLUSIVELY THE BUCKEYE PIPELINE.
AND, UM, SO WE ARE HERE TONIGHT REQUESTING FOUR PARTIAL WAIVERS THAT RELATE TO THE LOCATION OF THE BUCKEYE PIPELINE THAT RUNS ACROSS LEWIS ROAD.
UM, THE FIRST WOULD BE FOR A PARTIAL WAIVER FROM THE WIDENING OF SOUTH LEWIS ROAD.
AND THAT PARTICULAR, UM, WAIVER REQUEST RELATES TO, UM, THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE UNDER LEWIS ROAD.
BUCKEYE HAS INFORMED US THAT IF WE WERE TO WIDEN THE ROAD, SUCH AS, AS IS REQUIRED BY CODE, THAT THE, UM, THE ENTIRE CASING WOULD HAVE TO BE REMOVED AND REPLACED.
AND IF WE COULD JUST TRUNCATE THE WIDENING UP TO, UM, THE POINT THAT'S INDICATED ON THE PLAN, I'M NOT SURE IF YOU CAN DEMONSTRATE THAT.
DID THAT, UM, INFRASTRUCTURE REPLACEMENT REQUIREMENT WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.
IS THAT WORKING? OH, THERE YOU GO.
OH, DID I, AGAIN, I HAVE NO ARTISTIC ABILITY.
I CAN, I CAN COME UP HERE, THAT'S WHY I, BUT I CAN DRAW A PROMISE.
SO, SO THE BUCKEYE, UH, BUCKEYE PIPELINE BASICALLY RUNS HERE.
IT'S WITHIN A 50 FOOT EASEMENT, 25 FEET ON EACH SIDE, AND IT, THE, UH, PIPE UNDER, UH, UNDER, UH, SOUTH LEWIS ROAD TO SOME UNKNOWN DISTANCE IN THIS DIRECTION.
AND BASICALLY JUST ABOUT TO THE, UH, WHAT WOULD BE THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY IS CAD.
WHERE'S THAT FARMHOUSE ON UNDER THAT, EXCUSE ME, THE FARMHOUSE THAT'S EXISTING THERE ALREADY.
WHERE'S THAT ON IN THE PICTURE? UM, WELL, WE HAVE BASICALLY HERE WE HAVE THIS PICO UH, SUBSTATION HERE.
AND THEN THE FARMHOUSE, I BELIEVE WOULD BE FURTHER THAT IT IS ABOUT RIGHT HERE WHERE THE RED.IS.
WHAT'S THAT, JIM? IT'S ABOUT WHAT THE RED.IS.
SO THIS IS FURTHER UP FROM THAT.
SO, UH, YEAH, SO AS WE WERE WORKING OUR WAY THROUGH OUR, WE HAD ALL OUR APPROVALS IN HAND WORKING OUR WAY THROUGH BUCKEYE, UH, WITH, UH, WE WERE PROPOSING WIDENING, UH, SANITARY SEWER AS WELL AS A, UH, LOVE SPREADER OUT THE BASIN.
UH, THEY CAME BACK AND, UH, WITH A COMMENT REGARDING THAT, ANY WIDENING OVER THAT, I GUESS THEY NO LONGER WANT CASING PIPES AND THAT IF WE WERE DOING ANY WIDENING THERE, THAT, UH, THEY WOULD HAVE TO REMOVE THE CASING, UH, AT THE APPLICANT'S EXPENSE.
UH, THE TIMING WAS UNKNOWN AND THEIR SUGGESTION WAS TO, UH, TO NOT IMPACT THE RIGHT OF WAY AT ALL WITH THE, UH, WITH THE ROAD WALKING.
SO WE FELT THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, TALKED WITH, TALKED WITH STAFF, UH, IT'S BASICALLY ABOUT, UH, A HUNDRED FEET SHORT OF THE PROPERTY LINE.
UH, WE STILL WERE ABLE TO, IT DIDN'T IMPACT ANY OF THE OTHER IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE PROVIDING OF WITH THE, UH, WITH THE DEDICATED
BUCKEYE HAS, UH, APPROVED THE PLAN AS, AS IS WITH THE, UH, WITH, WITH THE, THE SHORTING OF THE ROAD WIDENING.
WE ACTUALLY RELOCATED THE LEVEL SPREADER BACK A LITTLE BIT, UH, TO, UH, SO THAT, YOU KNOW, TRY TO, TRY TO WORK WITH THEM.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH, WITH THEIR, UH, THEIR COMMENT ON THE, THE PROXIMITY OF THE LEVEL SPREADER, WE, WE DID, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, WANT TO, TO, TO DO THE BEST WE COULD IN ORDER TO, TO NOT IMPACT THEIR RIGHT OF WAY.
SO, AND WE'VE MET WITH THIS, WITH THE GROUP AND, UH, AT A STAFF CONSULTANT LEVEL, WE SUPPORT THE WAIVER, THE WAIVER REQUEST OF WAIVERS.
I, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THOUGH, FROM MY, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT INTERSECTION WELL, ANTHONY, WHAT'S THAT GONNA DO? SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE, THE ROAD, THE SIZE IT IS NOW, BASICALLY, AND THEN IT'S GONNA WIDEN AS WE GET FURTHER UP TOWARDS THE CORNER.
SO THAT DID, SO THE, THE GENERAL LAYOUT IS STILL THE SAME IN TERMS OF EXISTING WIDENS OUT IN FRONT AND ALONG THE FRONTAGE, I GUESS TO THE, TO THE RIGHT TURN LANE THAT EVENTUALLY BRINGS YOU UP SOUTH LEWIS.
THE DIFFERENCE IS THE STARTING POINT HAS NOW SHIFTED TO THE WEST.
HOW'S THAT GONNA AFFECT THE TRAFFIC? IS IT, HOW WILL THAT AFFECT THE, UH, THAT, THAT, THAT
[00:30:01]
WE, WE WERE AGREEABLE TO THE WAIVER REQUEST BECAUSE WE DIDN'T SEE THAT BEING AN ACTUAL WAIVER.AND THEN THE SECOND PARTIAL WAIVER REQUEST IS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME CONCEPT, BUT IT RELATES TO THE SIDEWALK.
AND THEN THE NEXT ONE'S CORRECT.
AND, AND THEN THE THIRD IS RELATING TO CURB.
SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALL THE SAME GENERAL IDEA.
UM, AND THEN THE FOURTH, UH, WAIVER REQUEST IS, UH, FROM THE SETBACK AND PROXIMITY REQUIREMENT OF THE CODE, UM, WHICH IS 40 FEET FROM THE EXISTING, UM, BUCKEYE PIPELINE, UH, EASEMENT AND RIGHT OF WAY.
UH, BUT THE, IT HAS TO DO WITH THE PROPOSED DWELLING UNITS AND THE BASIN AND, UM, THEIR PROXIMITY TO THE PIPELINE AND THE SETBACK.
AND, UM, WE HAVE BEEN IN COMMUNICATION WITH BUCKEYE AND ALSO WITH THE TOWNSHIP STAFF.
AND WE ARE CONFIDENT THAT THAT DOES NOT POSE ANY SORT OF, UM, HAZARD IN TERMS OF THE, THE SETBACK THAT IS PROPOSED.
UH, THE LAST, THE LAST WAIVER.
COULD YOU, I'M NOT GETTING THAT.
COULD YOU EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT OR SHOW A LITTLE BIT BETTER ON THAT ONE? I, YEAH, I CAN TRY TO EXPLAIN THAT.
I THINK, I THINK THE MIC, I THINK THE, UH, I THINK THE WAIVER, THE WAY IT WAS WRITTEN, UH, OR THE SECTION WAS A LITTLE UNCLEAR AS TO WHAT THE SETBACK WAS FOR, UH, OUR DWELLINGS AND ANY STRUCTURES, WALLS, ET CETERA.
UH, AS WELL AS THE LEVEL SPREADER ARE ALL, UH, OVER 40 FEET FROM THE, UH, FROM THE, THE PIPELINE.
HOWEVER, WE DID HAVE, WE DO HAVE SOME GRADING, WHICH, UH, BUCKEYE IS OKAY WITH AS WELL AS A, UH, A STONE, UH, SORT OF ON THE EMERGENCY SPILLWAY, WHICH BUCKEYE IS OKAY WITH TOO.
SO WE CAME IN, WE'RE REQUESTING THAT WAIVER FOR, FOR THOSE IMPROVEMENTS, SORT OF AS A, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE COVERED ALL OUR BASES.
SO, SO OUR UNITS, I THINK OUR CLOSEST DWELLING UNIT IS 125 FEET MINIMUM AWAY FROM THE, UH, THE PIPELINE.
SO ALL OF THE REAL, WHAT I'LL CONSIDER LIKE IMPROVEMENTS, UH, THAT ARE RELATED TO HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE, WE ALL NEED, WE'RE ALL BEYOND THE 40 FEET.
SO, UH, IF GRADING AND THE STONE EMERGENCY SPILLWAY IS CONSIDERED WITHIN THAT, YOU KNOW, SETBACK TO NEED A WAIVER, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR.
BUT THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE GRADING? NO, THEY, WE, UH, THEY ALLOW GRADING, UH, AS LONG AS IT'S NOT NO STEEPER THAN FIVE TO ONE.
SO WE DID REVISE THE GRADING TO BE FIVE TO ONE, UH, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY AROUND THE, UH, JUST ADJACENT TO THEIR EASEMENT.
SO, AND THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE, UH, ONE OF THE CONDITIONS ACTUALLY WHEN THEY, THEY ISSUED THEIR APPROVAL LETTER, THEY ACTUALLY TOOK MY RESPONSES VERBATIM AND PUT THOSE IN AS CONDITIONS, WHICH, WHICH MATCHED UP WITH THE, THE LATEST REVISED PLAN THAT WE SUBMITTED.
I GUESS IT'S THE SAME PIPELINE THAT RUNS THROUGH THE COMMUNITY WHERE, WHERE I LIVE AND YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.
AND WE COULDN'T EVEN PUT DOWN FOR A KID'S PLAY GYM.
YOU KNOW, STICKING IN THE GROUND SIX INCHES.
THEY WOULDN'T EVEN LET US DO IT.
AND YET IT'S LIKE, WELL, I SHOULD SAY KNEE DEEP.
WE'RE, WE'RE FILLING A LITTLE LIKE OVER LIKE, SO WE'RE NOT EXCAVATING WE'RE, WE'RE FILLING IT, SO.
JEN, DOES IT HAVE ANY EFFECT ON THE GROUNDWATER? NO.
FROM A, FROM A GROUNDWATER INSTANCE? MY QUESTION THOUGH IS, WILL THE CHANGES TO THE IMPROVEMENTS IN THIS AREA BE REFLECTED ON YOUR APPROVED NPDS PLAN SO THAT WHEN WE GET TO THE POINT OF AS-BUILT AND MAKING SURE EVERYTHING'S COVERED, THEN IT IS CONSISTENT? CORRECT? YES.
YEAH, AS LONG AS IT'S REFLECTED ON THE MPDS PERMIT THAT ANY MODIFICATIONS TO THAT STABILIZATION OUT THERE, THE DISTRICT WILL ALSO.
ANYTHING ELSE YOU GUYS WANT? NO, NOTHING ELSE.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THIS FROM THE GALLERY OR ANYTHING? COME ON UP, BILL.
AND THEN THIS IS REALLY NOT SO MUCH FOR YOUR PROJECT, BUT IT MAY BE TO JEFF AS I COME OUT JAGER ROAD SOME MORNINGS AND, YOU KNOW, BANG INTO THE WALL OF CARS COMING TO LEWIS ROAD THERE AND THE TRAFFIC GOING UP AND TOWARDS THE SCHOOL, I STARTED THINKING, HOW ABOUT THIS OLD MILL ROAD? IS THERE EVER ANY CONSIDERATION OF CONNECTING THAT THROUGH TO, UH, TOWNSHIP BLIND ROAD TO RELIEVE SOME OF THAT THE RIGHT OF WAY FOR THAT DOESN'T GO TO TOWNSHIP BLIND ROAD? IT, IT, WE'D HAVE TO CROSS UNDER 4 22 TO BEGIN WITH.
UM, BECAUSE WE EITHER HAVE TO GO THROUGH SCHOOL PROPERTY, WHICH I DOUBT THEY'RE GONNA GIVE US OR GO UNDERNEATH 4 22.
'CAUSE THERE IS A, IT'S NOT REALLY A CULVERT, BUT THERE'S LIKE A CULVERT LIKE STRUCTURE THAT DOES GO UNDER 4 22.
IT'S NOT WIDE ENOUGH FOR A ROADWAY, BUT AT ONE POINT, PRE 4 22 OLD MILL DID CONNECT OUT TOWARDS BUCK
[00:35:01]
WALTER AND TO NEW MILL ON THE OTHER SIDE, BUCK WALTER, NEW MILL ON THE NORTH SIDE OF 4 22, THAT ALL CONNECTED.AND THEN AT SOME POINT WHEN PENDO CAME THROUGH AND BUILT 4 22, AS WE KNOW IT NOW, THEY CHOPPED IT OFF.
SO, I MEAN, THAT SEEMS LIKE SOMEHOW, AND I DON'T KNOW, YEARS, I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH A FEW PEOPLE ABOUT THAT, AND THAT'S WHY I, I UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT.
JUST SO THE SCHOOL PROPERTY GOES RIGHT UP 2, 4 22.
UH, ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? ANYTHING ADD CHAIR? NO.
WELL THEN, UM, JOE, SHOULD WE DO A MOTION ON THIS? YEAH, IT'D BE, IF, IF THAT'S NOT YOUR FEEL MOTION TO RECOMMEND A GRANT OF THE, UH, WAIVE REQUESTED WAIVE RESPONSE SUPERVISOR, WE'RE GONNA, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THIS.
WE CAN STILL VOTE AGAINST IT, OBVIOUSLY IF YOU DON'T WANT IT.
BUT, UH, WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOME MOTION TO, UH, TO MAKE A DECISION ON THIS.
SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION, I'LL, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ACCEPT THAT PROPOSAL TO, UH, FOR THE FOUR, UH, WAIVERS.
THE FOUR WAIVERS PRESENTED ON THE LETTER PACKET.
SO, UH, BOB HAS MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE FOUR WAIVERS AND SEND 'EM OFF TO THE SUPERVISORS, OR IS THAT WHERE IT GOES? YEP.
AND THEN, UM, UM, AND ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A SECOND.
I'LL SECOND, I'LL SECOND THE MOTION TO MOVE FORWARD.
WE'LL TAKE A SECOND FROM, UH, JERRY ON THAT.
ALL RIGHT, SO WE'RE MOVING TO NUMBER TWO, WHICH IS 1201 SOUTH COLLEGEVILLE ROAD, ZONING, TEXT, AMENDMENT, MAP AMENDMENT.
OH, WE'RE GONNA GO BACK TO HELP.
THAT WHY I THOUGHT YOU JUST LIKED US.
YOU WELL, I DO LIKE YOU, BUT YEAH, I HERE FOR THIS, UM, SAID THE RIGHT THING.
SO, UM, YOU, YOU GUYS HAVE SEEN THIS BEFORE, 1201 SOUTH COLLEGE ROAD.
THIS IS THE CROSS SITE RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO THE PROPERTY, RIGHT.
UH, WE STARTED OUR PROCESS WITH THE TOWNSHIP BACK IN NOVEMBER.
UM, TALKING TO THEM ABOUT CONCEPT PLAN FOR THE SITE.
WE FIRST APPEARED BEFORE YOU IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR TO TALK ABOUT, UM, A PROPOSED RE ZONING AND CONCEPT PLAN ON THE SITE.
UM, SINCE THAT TIME, WE'VE BEEN IN FRONT OF YOU A FEW TIMES WITH TWEAKS, UM, MOST RECENTLY, UM, AND I, I WOULD SAY IN APRIL WE FORMALLY SUBMITTED A PETITION TO REZONE THE PROPERTY.
SO I DON'T THINK WE'VE BEEN BACK TO YOU SINCE WE DID THAT.
UM, BUT YOU'VE SEEN THIS A FEW TIMES, AND I'M GONNA HAVE HER SCHULTZ OUR ARCHITECT, GO BACK THROUGH THE UPDATED PLAN WITH YOU JUST TO, TO REFRESH EVERYONE'S MEMORY AND TALK ABOUT WHAT WE CHANGED ON IT.
UM, BUT WE FORMALLY SUBMITTED, UM, A ZONING ORDINANCE, UH, TEXT AND MAP AMENDMENT PETITION IN IN APRIL.
UM, CHANGES WERE MADE, UH, IT WAS FORWARDED TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AT THEIR MEETING ON MAY 20TH.
AND AT THAT MEETING, THEY AUTHORIZED IT TO MOVE FORWARD TO YOU.
SO I'M HERE TONIGHT SPECIFICALLY FOR, UM, A REVIEW OF THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT ITSELF AND THEN SEEKING A RECOMMENDATION FROM YOU ON THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT.
SO, WE'LL, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE PLAN AND CHANGES WE NEED TO THE PLAN THAT WE'RE PROPOSING.
BUT IN TERMS OF THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT THAT'S IN FRONT OF YOU, UM, FROM THE BEGINNING, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT A PROPOSED REZONING OF THE SITE TO COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER DISTRICTS, IF EVERYBODY RECALLS.
AND THAT DISTRICT HAS BEEN IN THE TOWNSHIP FOR A LONG TIME.
UM, AND WE TALKED ABOUT PREVIOUSLY THAT SOME OF THE PROVISIONS RELATED TO THAT DISTRICT, EVEN FROM A, JUST A BASE LEVEL, ARE SOMEWHAT OUTDATED.
UM, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE IT WAS BASED ON A CONCEPT OF, YOU KNOW, BIG SHOPPING CENTER, POWER CENTER, LARGE PARKING FIELD, ET CETERA.
SO EVEN IN THAT CONVERSATION, THE DISCUSSION HAS BEEN, UM, YOU KNOW, CLEANING UP SOME OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS ANYWAY, UM, WHICH, WHICH ALSO SORT OF GO HAND IN HAND WITH WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING.
SO IN TERMS OF THE ACTUAL ORDINANCE, JUST TO WALK YOU THROUGH WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO CHANGE, UM, AS YOU KNOW, WE ARE PROPOSING A RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT HERE, PARTICULARLY AND ONLY STACK TOWN HOMES.
SO THAT WOULD BE ADDED AS PART OF A RESIDENTIAL USE GROUP TO THIS DISTRICT.
UM, AND THE FIRST THING IN THIS DRAFT ORDINANCE, WHICH I'M ASSUMING EVERYBODY HAS A COPY OF THIS, BUT IF YOU DON'T, BEFORE I JUMP INTO, LET ME KNOW.
SO THE FIRST CHANGE WOULD BE, UM, THE STACK TOWN HOME.
THIS IS REDUNDANT, UM, IN THE SENSE THAT I KNOW THAT THIS WAS
[00:40:01]
JUST PREVIOUSLY ADDRESSED, BUT, UM, IT IS ALSO REFERENCED IN HERE.THE SECOND, UM, THERE'S ANOTHER DEFINITION AND THAT WOULD BE ADDED THAT WOULD BE A DEFINITION OF FAST CASUAL RESTAURANT.
UM, THE CONCERN, THE DISCUSSION HAS BEEN FOR THIS DISTRICT, UM, LIMITING AND NOT ALLOWING SPECIFIC FAST FOOD USERS.
SO, UM, IN, IN CONSULTATION, UH, WITH JEFF IN PARTICULAR WHO HAD GOOD PLANNING BACKGROUND AND, AND INFORMATION ABOUT THIS, WE'RE INTRODUCING THIS DEFINITION OF FAST CASUAL RESTAURANT SO THAT IT'S A CERTAIN LEVEL OF THAT TYPE OF RESTAURANT VERSUS YOUR JUST BASE FAST FOOD RESTAURANT.
AND THEN AS WE GO THROUGH THIS, UNDERSTAND THAT I DON'T, I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
SO I MEAN, THE WAY IT'S TALKING ABOUT THIS, IT TALKS ABOUT FRESHER AND HIGHER QUALITY, MORE COMPLEX FLAVORS.
LIKE IT'S NOT BURGER KING ESSENTIALLY.
IT'S NOT BURGER KING, IT'S NOT CHICK-FIL-A IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU WOULD CALL YOUR, YOU KNOW, MCDONALD'S OR BASE FAST FOOD.
THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT'S, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE MORE UPSCALE TYPES OF RESTAURANTS.
AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE MCDONALD, SO WE NO, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING.
SO WE, SO WE, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A WAY TO LIMIT THAT, AND SO THAT'S HONEY BROWN.
SO, SO THE IDEA IS TO NOT ALLOW FAST FOOD HERE, BUT TO ALLOW, YOU KNOW, FAST CASUAL IS SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY LIKES TODAY.
SO WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO, UM, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS ADDRESSED APPROPRIATELY IN THIS.
SO WE'RE ADDING THIS DEFINITION OF FAST CASUAL RESTAURANT TO YOUR, TO YOUR ORDINANCE.
AND IF I COULD INTERRUPT FOR A SECOND.
YEAH, I, I REALIZE THAT THE DEFINITION IS SOMEWHAT ARBITRARY.
I MEAN, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO REALLY DEFINE RESTAURANT A OVER RESTAURANT B, BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEY'RE ALL JUST RESTAURANTS.
BUT WHAT IT DOES IS IT GIVES THE TOWNSHIP A LITTLE LEVERAGE TO SAY, HMM, MAYBE NOT THAT ONE, MAYBE THIS ONE, MAYBE THIS USER OR NOT THAT USER.
AND, AND IT GIVES US A LITTLE BIT OF MORE LATITUDE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT, AND MY CONCERN, AND, AND THEY AGREE WITH ME ON THIS IS, IS THIS DOESN'T TURN INTO JUST YOUR REGULAR STRIP MOM WITH MCDONALD'S, WENDY'S, BURGER KING ALL LINED UP ON THE ROAD AND, AND TO GIVE US A LITTLE BIT OF CONTROL TO SAY, NO, THAT'S NOT THE KIND OF RESTAURANT THAT WE SHOULD BE IN HERE.
NOW WE'RE ALSO GONNA BE ADDRESSING THIS THROUGH DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT'S NOT PART OF THIS ORDINANCE.
I THINK IT'S GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT WE WORK OUT AS PART OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS SO THAT IT GETS TIED TO THIS PROPERTY AND SOME OF THOSE LAND, SOME OF THOSE DESIGN GUIDELINES WILL CONTROL HOW IT LOOKS.
WE DO THAT IN PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
WE HAVE A BOOK IN PROVINCE TOWN CENTER, AND THAT REALLY HELPS WITH THE LOOK OF THE PLACE.
THE RETAILERS THAT GO IN THERE, YOU DON'T HAVE, EVEN IF LET'S SAY SOMETHING THAT, WHICH IS A MORE FAST FOOD, THE MORE TYPICAL BRIGHT RESTAURANT WOULD GO IN THERE.
WE HAVE THE DESIGN CONTROLS TO SAY, YOUR DESIGN NEEDS TO REFLECT THESE CONTROLS, NOT YOUR MARKETING PATH, YOUR CORPORATE GOOD.
AND SO THAT, THAT'S WHERE THIS IS GOING.
AND, AND WE DON'T HAVE DESIGN GUIDELINES YET, BECAUSE AGAIN, THAT'S MORE WRITING AND MORE WORK.
AND WE DON'T WANNA DO THAT IF WE DON'T, IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE ZONING IN PLACE.
BUT WE WILL, THAT IS PART OF WHAT WE WILL BE DOING AS WE MOVE, IF THIS MOVES FORWARD, PAST THE FINISH AND INTO MY CASE, IF WE, IF IT WOULD PASS AND THE SUPERVISOR, EVERYBODY AGREES TO IT.
DOES THAT OPEN UP TO OTHER DEVELOPMENTS OR JUST THIS ONE? JUST THIS ONE.
THIS IS, THIS IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT, LET'S SAY WITH PARKHOUSE.
THAT WAS AN O THAT WAS AN OPTION WITHIN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
THEY COULD FIT ANOTHER AREA IN THE TOWNSHIP.
IF SOMEBODY OWNED ENOUGH PROPERTY AND MET ALL THE CRITERIA, THEY COULD OPT, THEY COULD USE THAT OPTION.
THIS IS A MAP AMENDMENT THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE IT TO COMMUNITY REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER.
AND WITHIN THAT, WE'RE GOING TO ADD AN OPTION WITHIN COMMUNITY REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER TO PUT RESIDENTIAL IN THERE IF YOU MEET CERTAIN CRITERIA.
SO THE THIRD ITEM, UM, THAT IS PROPOSED TO BE CHANGED IS REALLY A DELETION OF CERTAIN STANDARDS.
SO THE USES THAT YOU SEE HERE, FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, STUDIO AND OFFICE FOR PROFESSIONAL USE OR GENERAL BUSINESS ACTIVITY ARE ALREADY PERMITTED BY THIS SECTION.
BUT THIS SECTION ALSO REFERRED TO DESIGN STANDARDS IN THE PBO DISTRICT, WHICH IS VERY CONFUSING BECAUSE THEN IT ALSO SAID IF THERE AREN'T ANY THINGS THAT ARE ADDRESSED IN THE PBO DISTRICT, THEN USE THIS DISTRICT.
IT WAS JUST A, A MATTER OF CLEANUP.
I MEAN, I THINK THAT WOULD BE CONFUSING ANYWAY WITH ANY ORDINANCE.
AS WE ADD THINGS INTO IT, WE DON'T REALIZE IT'S NECESSARILY HOW WE AFFECT OTHER PARTS OF IT.
AND SO THAT'S WHEN WE CLEANED THIS UP, IT WAS ONE THING WE WANTED TO NUMBER FOUR, UM, IS, IS CLEANING UP AND, AND THEN SPECIFICALLY ADDING AND SPECIFYING YOU ALREADY ALLOW RESTAURANT, INCLUDING LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AND CATERING SERVICE.
UM, THIS WOULD ADD THAT CATERING'S ONLY PERMITTED WHEN COINCIDENTAL TO A RESTAURANT USE.
AND THIS ALSO THEN ADDS THE FA CASUAL RESTAURANT.
UM, AND WE'RE ALSO ADDING COFFEE SHOP IN THERE AS A, AS A USE, UM, AS ITS OWN
[00:45:01]
USE.UM, SECTION FIVE, INDOOR FITNESS, RECREATION, AND ENTERTAINMENT USES.
AGAIN, THESE ARE ALREADY PERMITTED IN THE DISTRICT.
THERE WERE TWO DIFFERENT BREAKDOWNS FOR THAT.
ONE WAS IF IT WAS UNDER 30,000 SQUARE FEET, WHICH WAS THIS SECTION, IT'S PERMITTED BY RIGHT.
PREVIOUSLY, IF IT WAS OVER 30,000 SQUARE FEET, IT WAS PERMITTED BY CONDITIONAL USE, WHICH IS ANOTHER ONE OF THE THINGS IN THE NEXT SECTION THAT'S DELETION WE'RE MAKING, WE'RE JUST MAKING IT ONE CLEAN USE.
THAT CONDITIONAL USE STANDARD ALSO REQUIRED YOU TO HAVE ACCESS FROM A MAIN DRIVE VI.
IT HAD THESE WEIRD CRITERIA, LIKE ESSENTIALLY YOU WEREN'T ALLOWED TO DRIVE AROUND THE PARKING LOT TO GET TO THE USE.
IT'S JUST ANTIQUATED LANGUAGE.
UM, AND THIS SECTION SIX ALSO DELETES FAST FOOD RESTAURANT AS A PERMITTED USE IN THE DISTRICT.
UM, NUMBER SEVEN, AGAIN, THIS IS CLEANUP LANGUAGE.
IT ALREADY HAD THIS OWNERSHIP REQUIREMENT, BUT IT REFERENCED, UM, CERTAIN CRITERIA AS IT RELATED TO TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP AND VALIDATING CERTAIN THINGS, WHICH PROBABLY ISN'T EVEN REALLY APPROPRIATE FOR A ZONING ORDINANCE.
THIS PARAGRAPH MAKES THE OWNERSHIP REQUIREMENT CONSISTENT WITH OTHER DISTRICTS IN YOUR TOWNSHIP.
UM, SECTION NUMBER EIGHT UNDER HERE, THIS SECTION, UM, SPECIFIES THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT, UM, FOR THE SHOPPING CENTER.
UH, 55 FEET REGIONAL SHOPPING REGIONAL, WHICH IS ANOTHER CATEGORY IN HERE, WHICH, UM, THERE'S COMMUNITY AND THERE'S REGIONAL REGIONAL'S ALREADY ALLOWED TO BE 65 FEET HIGH.
UM, THIS WOULD BE 55 FEET HIGH RIGHT NOW.
ONE OF THE REASONS WE WANTED TO PUT IN THE 55 FEET IS REALLY PRIMARILY IF THERE WAS A USER, LIKE A ROCK CLIMBING GYM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEY NEED TO GO A LITTLE BIT TALLER.
BUT IN GENERAL, YOU KNOW, MOST OF YOUR REGULAR, YOU KNOW, RETAIL BUILDINGS WOULD NOT BE THAT TALL AND THE STACK TOWNHOUSES WOULD NOT EXCEED THAT HEIGHT.
UM, NOW THAT THIS IS, THIS IS, THIS IS FOR THE MAIN, UH, BUILDING FOR, UH, COMMERCIAL USE, RIGHT? YEAH.
OH, THIS IS, WELL, I MEAN IT'S THE, THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENT IN THE DISTRICT, BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE SITE TODAY, I MEAN, THERE'S AN OFFICE BUILDING THERE THAT'S, AS YOU KNOW, AS TALL AS THE HEIGHT ANYWAY, WE'RE NOT REALLY CHANGING THE HEIGHT AS IT RELATES TO THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION.
BUT YEAH, THE, THE, THE MAX HEIGHT WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT HERE WOULD, WAS REALLY JUST TO ALLOW SOME FLEXIBILITY.
LIKE I SAID, IF YOU GET ONE OF THOSE USERS THAT HAS SOMETHING FUN AND FUNKY LIKE THAT, WE DON'T WANT TO EXCLUDE IT.
UM, NUMBER NINE ON HERE IS, UM, OFF STREET PARKING AND LOADING FACILITIES.
AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, THIS DISTRICT REQUIRES A PARKING SPACE, UM, 5.5 PARKING SPACES PER 1000 SQUARE FEET OF FLOOR AREA.
UM, FOR COMMERCIAL USER, OR I SHOULD SAY GROSS LEASEABLE AREA.
UM, I, WE'VE DISCUSSED BEFORE THAT THAT REALLY OVER PARKS, UNDER TODAY'S MODERN STANDARDS.
SO THIS WOULD BE A PROPOSED REDUCTION TO MAKE IT FOR PARKING SPACES PER THOUSAND.
THAT OBVIOUSLY SPECIFICALLY JUST WOULD APPLY TO THE COMMERCIAL.
UM, AND THEN THE NEXT SECTION IS WHAT WOULD CREATE THIS RESIDENTIAL USE GROUP.
UM, YOU KNOW, PRIMARY QUALIFIERS, YOU NEED 25 GROSS ACRES IN GENERAL, AND THEN A MAXIMUM OF EIGHT ACRES OF ATTRACT COULD BE USED FOR THIS RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
THEREFORE, IT'S NOT LIKE SOMEONE COULD COME IN, USE A COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER DISTRICT AND JUST BUILD RESIDENTIAL.
YOU HAVE TO DO IT IN TANDEM, UM, WITH THE COMMERCIAL USE.
AND THEN THE REST OF THIS IS REALLY, YOU KNOW, AREA IN BULK FOR THAT.
THE ONE THING I WILL NOTE IS THAT, UM, WE DO ALLOW FOR IN GENERAL ADAPTIVE REUSE OF AN EXISTING BUILDING ON THE SITE.
UM, I KNOW THAT'S KIND OF SPECIFIC TO THIS, BUT AS EVERYONE KNOWS, THERE IS THE EXISTING HOUSE THAT EVERYONE I BELIEVE IN THE TOWNSHIP WOULD LIKE TO SEE RETAINED, AND WE JUST WANTED TO PROVIDE FLEXIBILITY FOR THAT, FOR THAT USE, SINCE YOU DON'T HAVE A SEPARATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION ORDINANCE.
YEAH, I, I DEFINITELY BELIEVE SEE, YEAH.
SO THAT'S WHEN YOU GUYS FIRST CAME IN, YOU AGREED TO THAT.
SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT'S CONTEMPLATED IN THERE, YOU KNOW, AS IT'S RECOGNIZED AS ITS OWN THING.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE OVERVIEW OF THE, WHAT'S PROPOSED IN A NUTSHELL.
UM, I'M CERTAINLY HAPPY TO HAVE YOU WALK THROUGH OR HAVE HER WALK YOU THROUGH, UM, THE CONCEPT PLAN AGAIN, THE RE YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE THINGS ARE THE SAME, BUT WE DID MAKE TWEAKS TO THE RESIDENTIAL SINCE WE WERE LAST HERE BASED ON, ON YOUR FEEDBACK.
YEAH, I'D BE INTERESTED WHAT THOSE TWEAKS WERE.
SO, UM, I THINK YOU'RE ALL GENERALLY FAMILIAR WITH THE SITE.
UH, AS ALLISON SAID, WE MADE A NUMBER OF CHANGES AFTER MEETING, UH, MEETING WITH YOU AND BOARD SUPERVISORS, SO I'LL RUN THROUGH THEM SPECIFICALLY.
UH, INGRESS EGRESS TO THE SITE WAS A CONCERN, UM, THAT WE'VE HEARD, UH, A COUPLE OF TIMES.
UH, DENSITY OBVIOUSLY, UM, PARKING FOR THE RESIDENTIAL
[00:50:01]
AND, UH, THAT LITTLE, THAT LITTLE HOUSE WHEREVER IT'S THE, THE EXISTING HOUSE.SO, UM, INITIALLY, UH, WE HAVE THE, UH, THE DRIVE AISLE HERE.
WE'RE WIDENING TO FACILITATE INGRESS, EGRESS, UH, OF A 24 FOOT STANDARD, WHICH IS, UM, WHAT I BELIEVE THE TOWNSHIP WANTS THROUGHOUT.
UM, WE'VE ADDED THIS RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT, UH, TURN IN, UH, ON BLACKROCK.
SO THIS IS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT AS SORT OF, UM, LIKE A, A STOP GAP FROM, UH, BUILDUP OF, OF QUEUING ON THIS LARGER, UH, INGRESS POINT HERE.
AND THEN, UH, THE REDUCTION, ACTUALLY, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, IT PROBABLY SHOWS IT BETTER.
SO HERE IS THE ORIGINAL, UH, TOWNHOUSE CONCEPT THAT WE PRESENTED MONTHS AGO.
UM, WE HEARD, YOU KNOW, FROM, FROM EVERYONE THAT, UH, IT WAS A LITTLE TOO CLOSE TOGETHER.
UH, NOT ENOUGH GREEN SPACE, CERTAINLY A LITTLE TOO DENSE.
UM, AND IN THIS PLANT SPECIFICALLY, UH, WE HAD 76 TOWNHOUSES, UH, STACK TOWNHOUSES, AND NO, NOT A LOT OF, UH, PROVISIONS FOR, UH, OFF STREET PARKING FOR VISITORS.
SO WHAT WE DID, WE'VE DECREASED, UH, THE NUMBER DOWN TO 61.
SO THAT'S ABOUT A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN 20% REDUCTION IN TOWNHOUSES.
UM, EACH HOUSE CAN PARK, UH, EACH DWELLING UNIT CAN PARK TWO CARS.
UH, WE'VE INCLUDED, UH, ADJACENT TO THIS, UH, THIS NEWER LARGER, UM, UH, CURB BED HERE.
WE'VE INCLUDED 20 VISITOR SPACES.
UM, UM, AND THEN ADJACENT TO THAT IS THE EXISTING, UH, HISTORIC HOUSE, WHICH WE WILL SHOW YOU SOME IMAGES OF.
UH, THE PLAN WITH THAT IS TO, UH, RESTORE IT BACK TO WORKABILITY.
UM, IT'S IN PRETTY BAD DISREPAIR.
UH, YOU KNOW, GET A NEW TENANT IN THERE, PROBABLY LIKE A COFFEE SHOP OR, OR, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UH, AND CONNECTS THE, THERE'S AN EXISTING WALKWAY ALONG BLACKROCK.
SO THE IDEA IS THAT WE CAN CONNECT THAT, THAT PEDESTRIAN PATH TO THIS AREA AND SORT OF, UM, YOU KNOW, GENERATE A, A PLACE TO, TO CONGREGATE.
SO THIS IS, UH, YEAH, THIS IS BASICALLY JUST THE OVERLAY OF THE NEW PROPOSED SITE PLAN OVER THE EXISTING CONDITIONS.
AGAIN, JUST TO REITERATE, WE'RE TRYING TO REUTILIZE AS MUCH, PRETTY MUCH ALL OF THE, UH, ONSITE, UH, VEHICULAR CIRCULATION.
UM, NEXT, SO THIS IS A VIEW, UH, LOOKING FROM THE CORNER.
UM, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE, UH, WE DON'T HAVE THIS TENANTED YET, BUT THE IDEA IS THAT WE HAVE A NICE ANCHOR TENANT HERE OF, UH, OF THE RESTAURANT.
SOME OUTDOOR SEATING, REALLY TRY TO ACTIVATE THE CORNER THERE.
UH, AND SOME ADJACENT TENANT SPACES, RETAIL TENANT SPACES NEXT.
UH, SO THESE ARE VIEWS OF THE LARGER BOX BUILDING.
UH, ON THE BACKSIDE WE'RE SEEING, UH, A LOT OF, UH, INTEREST FROM GROCERS.
UH, AND DAVID CAN SPEAK MORE TO THAT.
BUT, UM, THAT'S THE, THAT'S WHAT THESE TWO, UH, VIEWS ARE SHOWING NEXT.
SO THESE ARE A LITTLE MORE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL SHOTS.
AGAIN, THIS IS THE CORNER RETAIL, OR CORNER RESTAURANT, I SHOULD SAY, WITH SOME OUTDOOR SEATING.
AGAIN, WE, WE'D LIKE TO SEE THIS AS, AS ACTIVATED AS POSSIBLE.
I THINK THE TOWNSHIP WOULD AS WELL.
UM, THESE SMALLER, UH, PAD SITES, UM, ARE FOR THIS, UH, THIS RESTAURANT USE THAT WE'RE, UH, PROJECTING.
AND AGAIN, WE HAVE OUTDOOR SEATING ALONG ALL OF THESE AREAS AS WELL.
AGAIN, JUST TO ACTIVATE THE STREET SIDE, UM, USE NEXT.
SO THESE ARE SOME OF THE VIEWS OF THE PROPOSED TOWNHOUSES.
UM, THIS FIRST VIEW IS BASICALLY THESE TOWNHOUSES SORT OF FACE THE, THE PARK AREA.
AND SO WE'RE EXTENDING A WALKWAY, UH, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO MAKE THIS AS WALKABLE AS POSSIBLE AND TRYING TO CONNECT TO THE PARK.
THIS IS A VIEW FROM BASICALLY THE GROCER, UH, PARKING LOT.
LOOKING BACK UP THE HILL, AS YOU MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW, THERE'S A, A FAIRLY DECENT GRADE CHANGE THERE.
SO IT SEEMED LIKE A VERY NATURAL POINT FOR US TO SORT OF PUT THE SEPARATION BETWEEN THE, THE RESIDENTIAL USE GROUP AND THE RETAIL.
UM, ALSO JUST, UH, AS WE HAD MENTIONED BEFORE, JUST SOFTENING THE USE ADJACENT TO, UH, TO THE PARK AND TO THE MUNICIPAL, UH, PROPERTY.
UH, AND THESE ARE SOME OTHER VIEWS JUST SHOWING THE WALKABILITY.
YOU REALLY, YOU KNOW, KIND OF SEE THIS AS, UM, AS A NICE EXTENSION.
I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF, A LOT OF WALKERS AROUND THIS AREA.
AND I THINK IT'S A, IT'S A GOAL OF THE TOWNSHIP TO SORT OF HAVE SOME MORE, UH, PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC WORKING THEIR WAY TOWARDS THE PARK NEXT.
AND SO THESE ARE SOME PROPOSED VIEWS, UH, OF THE EXISTING HISTORIC HOUSE HERE.
UM, AS I MENTIONED, THERE'S A WALK, THERE'S A WALKING PATH THAT COMES ALONG.
BLACKROCK, WE WOULD, WE WOULD SEEK TO TRY TO CONNECT THAT TO POTENTIALLY SOME INTERIOR WALKWAYS AS WELL.
UM, HERE'S A VIEW LOOKING UP THE HILL,
[00:55:01]
SORT OF AT THAT SPACE ON, ON THE PROPERTY, SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TOWNHOUSES TO THAT BUILDING.UH, HERE'S A THREE QUARTER VIEW SORT OF SHOWING SOME OUTDOOR SEATING.
AGAIN, THIS, WE SEE THIS AS SORT OF A DESTINATION FOR ALL THE, YOU KNOW, THE PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC THAT I KEEP TALKING ABOUT.
WE SEE THIS AS A REALLY NICE USE FOR THIS BUILDING.
UM, AND SO THAT'S THE PLAN QUESTIONS.
UM, I, I DON'T HAVE ANY, ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS? CHAIR, UM, JEFF, YOU GUYS, YOU AND JOE GO WHEN WENT THROUGH THIS WITH ALLISON OR WHATEVER THIS COORDINATE PROPOSAL GUYS ARE FINE WITH IT, RIGHT? I ASSUME THAT YOU'RE FINE? YES.
MY ONLY CONCERN WOULD BE, AGAIN, WITH THE MAIN EVENT THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, PLUS THIS, PLUS THE ONE THAT JUST CAME IN MINUTES AGO.
UM, IT'S GONNA S STRAIN THE SYSTEM GUARANTEED.
SO IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT.
THAT WOULD BE MY CONCERN HERE.
EVERYTHING ELSE YOU'RE PLANNING LOOKS GREAT AND I LOVE THE PICTURES.
UM, I WILL SAY IN GENERAL, WE DID DO, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A DIFFERENT SPOT THAN THE OTHER ONE, WE DID DO, UM, A COMMUNITY IMPACT STATEMENT THAT WE SUBMITTED WITH THE, UM, PETITION TO REZONE IN APRIL.
AND THEN BASED ON FEEDBACK, WE WERE HEARING ABOUT, UM, CONCERNS RELATED TO PARKHOUSE, MORE REAL TIME DATA, UM, MORE SPECIFIC DATA FOR THIS.
WE ACTUALLY HAD OUR CONSULTANT UPDATE THAT IN MAY ON MAY 14TH.
AND THAT WAS SUBMITTED BEFORE, UH, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING IN MAY JUST TO PROVIDE INFORMATION ABOUT, UM, PUBLIC SAFETY, DEMAND, FISCAL IMPACT, ET CETERA.
SO WE DID INCLUDE ALL OF THAT AND FACTOR THAT IN.
I ALSO NOTE ON TRAFFIC, UM, OUR, WE HAD ENGAGED A TRAFFIC CONSULTANT AND MY CLIENT HAD, UM, BACK AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS PROJECT, UM, IN FEBRUARY, UM, THEY DID INITIAL CONSULTATION WITH BOWMAN.
UM, THEY HAD SUBMITTED A PRELIMINARY TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS BACK THEN.
UH, BOWMAN ISSUED A REVIEW LETTER IN APRIL.
UM, THAT TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS HAS SINCE BEEN UPDATED AND, YOU KNOW, COMPLETED AND, YOU KNOW, RESUBMITTED.
I KNOW THAT WAS VERY RECENT, BUT JUST, JUST SO YOU KNOW, WE'RE WE, WERE TRYING TO PROVIDE ALL OF THAT INFORMATION AND, AND GET AHEAD OF THAT AS WE, AS WE MOVE THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
LIKE I SAID EARLIER, ALLISON, UNFORTUNATELY, THE MAIN EVENT HAS PAINTED ALL OF OUR THOUGHT PROCESSES WHEN IT COMES TO ADDING ADDITIONAL STRUCTURES AND HOT FAMILIES AND CHILDREN INTO OUR SYSTEM.
AND, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN APPROVED AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT WE CERTAINLY GOTTA START THINKING ABOUT THOSE ISSUES.
AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK FOR YOUR NEW ONE THAT YOU PRESENTED MM-HMM,
I WILL SAY THAT IN GENERAL, THIS PARTICULAR PRODUCT IS DIFFERENT THAN, UM, WHAT IS PROPOSED ELSEWHERE IN THE COMMUNITY.
AND I DO THINK IT SLOTS INTO A DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC THAN SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING.
AND I, AND I, I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS PARTICULAR, THIS PARTICULAR PRODUCT.
AND I THINK I, I, I, I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S, I'M GONNA PUT RESOURCES ON OUR POLICE AND FIRE AND AMBULANCES AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF TOO.
AND, UH, NOT JUST THE SCHOOLS, YOU KNOW.
AMBULANCE WORK, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY IF THIS IS GONNA BE A OLDER DEMOGRAPHIC PLAN.
UM, DAVE, LANCE RUNNER, NICE TO SEE YOU GUYS.
UM, SO THIS PRODUCT IS TRADITIONALLY GONNA BE TWO BEDROOM, THREE BEDROOM.
IT'S NOT GONNA BE THREE BEDROOM, FOUR BEDROOM.
UM, AND THE PRICE POINT IS WHAT I LIKE TO CALL ATTAINABLE.
SO IT'S LIKE THE HIGH THREES TO MID FOURS, UPPER FOURS, DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE IN THE BUILDING, UPPER FLOOR, LOWER FLOOR, WHAT YOUR VIEW IS.
UM, AND GENERALLY SPEAKING WITH THOSE TYPES AND SIZES OF UNITS, YOU'RE NOT ATTRACTING BIG FAMILIES.
IT'S MORE DOWNSIZERS OR FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS, UM, PEOPLE WHO WANNA STAY IN THE COMMUNITY BUT DON'T WANT TO HAVE A BIG SINGLE FAMILY HOME ANYMORE AND JUST MIGHT WANT TO HAVE A SECOND HOME IN FLORIDA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, THAT'S REALLY THE, THE, THE DEMOGRAPHIC, THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC FOR THAT, FOR THESE STACKED UNITS.
AND I, I, ALL I'M TRYING TO MAKE THE POINT IS THAT WHAT WE JUST WENT THROUGH FOR TWO YEARS FIGHTING THIS PARK, NOW ALL, ALL FUTURE ENDEAVORS ARE GONNA BE JUDGED BY THAT.
AND, AND UNFORTUNATELY YOU GUYS ARE COMING IN NOW WITH SOME NEW PLANS AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL JUST SKEPTIC BECAUSE THAT'S ALL WE'VE BEEN FIGHTING OVER FOR TWO YEARS WAS HOW THIS IS GONNA AFFECT OUR COMMUNITY.
AND, UH, SO ALL I'M TELLING YOU IS WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THAT STUFF.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT TRYING TO KNOW, MAKE IT BAD OR GOOD OR HEY, I'M JUST SAYING, HEY, WE'RE GONNA BE THINKING ABOUT THESE RESOURCES THAT ARE, ARE BEING
[01:00:01]
ASKED NOW IN OUR COMMUNITY.'CAUSE UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT I HEAR FROM PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY NOW IS, YOU KNOW, NOBODY WANTS ANY MORE SCHOOL TAXES OR ANY MORE, ANY KIND OF DEBT.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THE MAIN EVENT IS CERTAINLY GOING TO STRESS THINGS AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THESE NEW DEVELOPMENTS ADDITIONAL, WE'RE GONNA ADD ADDITIONAL STRESS AND WE JUST GOTTA THINK ABOUT IT.
UM, THE ONLY THING I CAN SAY IS THESE PROJECTS ARE GONNA BE KIND OF PHASED IN OVER A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME.
SO, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S KIDS SCHOOL, I THINK IT WILL HOPEFULLY, UM, YOU KNOW, NOT, NOT HIT ALL AT ONCE ESSENTIALLY.
AND, BUT TOTALLY UNDERSTAND, YOU GUYS ARE IN A TOUGH SPOT.
BUT WE THINK THIS IS A, A GREAT SOLUTION TO A VACANT OFFICE BUILDING.
UM, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU PUT THE RETAIL IN SOME OF THE, THE TENANTS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE HERE ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE HIGHEST PAYING TENANTS.
AND IN ORDER TO KIND OF COUNTERACT THAT AND BALANCE IT OUT, WE'RE, WE'RE DOING A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT THAT THAT'S WALKABLE AND IT'S HOPEFULLY A WIN-WIN FOR THE COMMUNITY, FOR TOWNSHIP AND FOR US.
I THINK IT'S A GREAT, UH, USE OF THAT PROPERTY.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FOR THESE PEOPLE? OH, WE'VE GOT SOMEBODY IN THE FIELD.
UH, JOE PETERS, UH, A COUPLE OF COMMENTS.
NUMBER ONE, UH, I'M GLAD THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE MCDONALD'S AND BURGER KINGS ON THE 29TH.
UH, I'M NOT QUITE SURE THAT THERE'S ADEQUATE PARKING FOR THIS, UH, NUMBER OF APARTMENTS.
UM, TWO SPOTS PER, PER, UH, UNIT IS GREAT FOR THE RESIDENTS, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE EVERYBODY ELSE IS GONNA PARK WHO VISITS, YOU KNOW, FOR ANY KIND OF, UH, SOCIAL EVENTS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
AND I'M CURIOUS, WHAT'S THE HEIGHT OF THE STACKED HOMES? UH, IT'S JUST UNDER 45 FEET.
SO IS THAT PART OF THE ZONING ISSUE? I MEAN, 'CAUSE I'VE HEARD IN RECENT, UH, DEVELOPMENTS THAT THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT 35, 40, 45, I DON'T KNOW WHAT NO, WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR IN AMENDMENT YEARS 55.
SO THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT THAT'S ALLOWED WITHIN WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED.
UM, WELL, YES, IT'S FOR THE RETAIL, BUT, BUT IT'S STILL, SOMEBODY COULD GO, NOT ACCORDING TO THIS, THE RESIDENTIAL, I THINK HAS A BUILDING HEIGHT OF 45, 45, 45, 45.
SO AGAIN, IT DOES GO BACK TO OUR, THE ISSUE THAT WE DISCUSSED WITH PARKHOUSE WHERE THE RESIDENTIAL REQUIREMENTS FOR ZONING AND OR FOR FIRE SAFETY AND THINGS LIKE THAT DOES REQUIRE OUR POLICE AND OUR FIRE CHIEF TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND TO, AGAIN, SO, SO ANTICIPATED THAT THAT WAS HAPPENING.
UM, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS, IS SO WHAT WE NEED ABOUT, SO WHAT WE NEED TO BY MATTER TRUCK TO ACCOMMODATE A 45 FOOT TALL FACILITY.
APARTMENTS CERTAINLY DON'T, PARDON ME.
I CERTAINLY DUNNO THE ANSWER TO THAT.
I WOULD'VE TO CHECK WITH THAT, THAT, THAT JUST, I'M RAISING IT AS AN ISSUE AND DON'T DISAGREE.
AND THE ONLY OTHER COMMENT IS I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE TRAFFIC FLOW ON THE BLACKROCK ROAD, AND I PRESUME THAT, UH, UH, MR. VALENCIA WILL DEAL WITH THAT AS PART OF THE PLANNING PROCESS.
WELL, UH, IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON THAT AT ALL, I MEAN, I KNOW YOU'VE LOOKED AT THIS MANY TIMES OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS.
YEAH, SO WE, WE'VE LOOKED AT IT JUST FROM A CONCEPTUAL STANDPOINT.
SO PRELIMINARY NUMBERS LIKE ALLISON HAD MENTIONED, I KNOW THEY FORMALLY THERE WAS ONLY ONE ACCESS PREVIOUSLY ON BLACKROCK.
THERE'S NOW TWO, THE TRAFFIC, UH, ANALYSIS WAS RECENTLY AMENDED TO REFLECT THAT.
SO IT KIND OF CHANGES THE NUMBERS AND THINGS.
AND WAS FORMALLY SUBMITTED TO PEN, I BELIEVE.
UM, BUT CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD GENERAL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT SOME OF THE CONCERNS AND EXPECTATIONS FOR THE LAYOUT, ACCESS, DESAL LANES, LEFT TURNS, RIGHT TURNS, THAT SORT OF THING WITH BLACKROCK.
SO WE'LL CERTAINLY BE EVALUATING ALL THAT STUFF THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS.
UM, VOICE AND VOICING OUR THOUGHTS AS WE LOOK AT IT.
DID, DID YOU NOT MENTION THE ONE, ONE LOWER D ON BLACK? OUR, UH, BLACK HAWK PER SAKE IS GONNA BE RIGHT TURNING, RIGHT TURN AND OUT.
SORRY, IT'S GETTING REALLY LOUD.
THE BRAIN GETS A LITTLE LOUD IN HERE.
UM, ALSO JUST UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE NOT APPROVING, WE'RE NOT RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE DESIGN AT THIS POINT.
MUCH LIKE PARKHOUSE, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE GIVING, IF IT GOES THROUGH THE, THE ZONING WILL BE IN PLACE AND THEN WE CAN, WE START THE DISCUSSIONS WITH MORE SPECIFICS ABOUT DESIGN WHEN THEY GET TO 10 SKETCH AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND AGAIN, THEN THAT'S ONLY DONE SCOPING.
SO WE'RE SORT OF EARLY IN THAT PROCESS.
AGAIN, ALL THE POINTS, BUT YOU KNOW, THERE CAN'T BE TWEAKS ABOUT THIS PLAN MOVING FORWARD.
THERE ALREADY HAS BEEN BENEFIT.
UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD? OH, WE GOT
[01:05:01]
ANOTHER GUY.WELL, ONE OTHER THING I JUST WANTED TO NOTE IS THAT THE EXISTING BUILDING ON THE SITE TODAY IS 60 FEET TALL, SO WE'RE ACTUALLY PROPOSING A SHORTER HEIGHT THAN WHAT'S ON THE SITE TODAY.
UH, BILL DION WITH THE LAW FIRM OF SILVERWARE AND ROSEN AND HALTZMAN HERE THIS EVENING REPRESENTING PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
UM, I GUESS THE FIRST THING I'M WOULD SAY, WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO THE APPLICATION, SO I, I'M SURE THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT A LOT OF YOU'RE THINKING WHILE WE'RE HERE.
UM, THIS APPLICATION BECAME, UH, WHAT KNOWN TO US IN MARCH.
UM, WE WROTE A LETTER TO THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, THEY WERE KIND ENOUGH TO ENGAGE US.
WE WERE INVITED TO THE RECENT WORKSHOP MEETING FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
AND REALLY WHAT WE'VE LEARNED IS, UM, WHAT'S HAPPENING, WHAT I'LL CALL THE CARD OR THE ROUTE 29 CORRIDORS GOING UNDER, UM, SOME SIGNIFICANT CHANGES AND SEEING HOW WE HAVE A LARGE INVESTMENT IN ASSET THERE.
UM, WE REALIZE THAT WE HAVE TO BE MORE OF A PARTICIPANT IN THAT ANALYSIS, AND THAT'S REALLY WHY WE'RE HERE TONIGHT.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'LL BE AROUND FOR LENNAR'S APPLICATION, AGAIN, NOT TO OPPOSE THEM, BUT TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL GETTING THE BEST, UM, DEVELOPMENTS ON THAT CORRIDOR FOR, UH, NOT ONLY THE TOWNSHIP, BUT FOR OUR ASSET.
UM, I CAME HERE TONIGHT WITH A CLIENT TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS BECAUSE, UM, WENT TO THE PLAN, UH, SUPERVISOR MEETING, UH, JUST RECENTLY.
AND THEN THE ORDINANCE WAS ADVERTISED.
WE, UH, GOT A COPY OF THE ORDINANCE AND LOOKED THROUGH IT.
AND I GUESS, UM, WHAT'S IN THE PACKET TONIGHT FOR THE BOARD? I REALLY DIDN'T SEE ANY REVIEW LETTERS.
I DIDN'T SEE A COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW LETTER.
I DIDN'T SEE ATTACHMENT REVIEW LETTERS.
AND THAT STRUCK US AS A LITTLE ODD AND WAS WONDERING IF THOSE EVAL EVALUATIONS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS, AND I GET THAT.
UM, BUT, UM, IT ALSO, IT'S THE TIME TO SHOW THE PRETTY PICTURES AND THEN WHAT GETS DELIVERED AT THE END ONCE YOU CHANGE THE ZONING.
UM, THE RULES HAVE KIND OF BEEN SET AND THERE'S, UM, A LOT LESS ABILITY TO RESTRICT CERTAIN THINGS.
SO I GUESS OUR CONCERN IS, ARE WE GOING TO GET WHAT WE'RE BEING PROMISED? AND WE REALLY HAVEN'T SEEN ANY OF THOSE REVIEW LETTERS.
SO IS THE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION ISSUED A REVIEW LETTER? THEY HAVE NOT.
THEY, THEY HAVE THE PLANS AND THEN THEY'RE, THE PROCESS OF REVIEWING THEM.
THE, THE, IT IS A VERY TIGHT WINDOW, BUT WE WILL HAVE THAT, WE SHOULD HAVE THAT LETTER BEFORE THE BOARD MEETING.
UM, IN TERMS OF REVIEW LETTERS FROM THE CONSULTANTS, MYSELF, CIVIL AND TRAFFIC, I ASKED THEM AS, AS THE DIRECTOR, PLANNING TO ISSUE LETTERS IF THEY FELT THERE WAS AN ISSUE OR CONFLICT WITH EXISTING CIVIL OR TRAFFIC REQUIREMENTS WITHIN THE ORDINANCE.
I, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE HAS BEEN, I DON'T THINK OTHER THAN EVALUATING THE PLAN IN TERMS OF WHAT IMPACTS IT MAY HAVE, THERE'S NO CHANGES RECOMMENDED FOR TRAFFIC OR FOR CIVIL THAT WOULD, WOULD AFFECT ANYTHING ELSE IN THE TOWNSHIP.
AND PERSONALLY, FROM A, FROM A PLANNING STANDPOINT, I, I DO, I AM AN OUTSIDE CONSULTANT, BUT AS THE, THE ONSITE DIRECTOR, I GET IN A LITTLE BIT OF A, AN AWKWARD POSITION BECAUSE I'M WORKING WITH THEM TO REFINE THE ORDINANCE AND CORRECT THINGS IN THE ORDINANCE.
THEN I WOULD WRITE A REVIEW LETTER ON FROM THE VERY EARLY STAGES.
WE'VE GONE THROUGH IT THREE OR FOUR TIMES, SO I DON'T WRITE AN OFFICIAL LETTER.
WE SORT OF LEAVE THAT UP TO THE COUNTY AND DISCUSSIONS.
BUT THE BOARD, UM, SO REVIEWS AT THIS LEVEL ARE A LITTLE BIT FOR THIS TOWNSHIP AREN'T AS FORMAL AS THEY MAY BE FOR OTHERS.
I MEAN, I GUESS, UM, LOOK, WE'RE INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT THE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION HAS TO SAY.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, I GUESS I WOULD ASSUME THAT YOU'RE ALSO WILLING TO, TO SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THEY BRING A LOT OF PLANNING EXPERIENCE AND, UM, THOSE COMMENTS MAY LEAD TO SOME CHANGES TO THE ORDINANCE.
AND THEN, UM, IF IT PASSES OUTTA HERE AND THEN GOES TO THE SUPERVISORS, DOES IT COME BACK? AND I, I GUESS MY FIRST QUESTION OR REQUEST WOULD BE THAT THIS BE POSTPONED UNTIL THE PLANNING COMMISSION ISSUES THE REVIEW TO SEE IF THE TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION AGREES WITH SOME OF THOSE COMMENTS OR BELIEVES THEY SHOULD BE INCORPORATED OR NOT.
UM, BECAUSE IT JUST SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT SHOULD BE BEFORE YOU, BEFORE YOU MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
THERE'S, I WOULD SAY THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN ALL THAT OFTEN WITH THE WAY THE TIME SCHEDULES WORK ON GETTING AN ORDINANCE ADOPTED.
WE SOMETIMES HAVE THE BENEFIT OF THE COUNTY LETTER WITH THIS GROUP, BUT NOT ALWAYS, NOT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT A PERCENTAGE IS, JEFF, BUT HALF THE TIME, LESS THAN HALF THE TIME, WE, WE HAVE AN INTERESTING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COUNTY.
WE'RE OBVIOUSLY ALL LOOKING FOR THE BEST OF WHAT WE CAN IN OUR MUNICIPALITY.
BUT IF, MY OPINION IS THAT THE, THE TOWNSHIP AND THE BOARD AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAVE USUALLY LOOKED AT THE COUNTY PLANNING REVIEW LETTERS AS
[01:10:01]
SOMEWHAT SELF-SERVING TO THE COUNTY, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT, WHAT HELPS FOR THIS TOWNSHIP, AGAIN, WE, WE FOLLOW THE PROCEDURE, BUT I DON'T THINK WE PUT A LOT OF WEIGHT ON THEIR REVIEW, TO BE PERFECTLY FRANK.WELL, I MEAN, I GUESS LOOK, I, I'VE BEEN DOING THE DEVELOPMENT WORLD FOR YEARS AND I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES YOU GET THE REVIEW AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU GO TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AFTER THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
BUT I WOULD THINK ON A, A TEXT AND ZONING MAP CHANGE THAT PUTS IT INTO A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT CATEGORY.
I MEAN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE MAKING CHANGES TO THE TYPES OF USES, THE DEFINITIONS.
I MEAN, THE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION, THEY REVIEW MULTIPLE ORDINANCES.
I I, I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF THERE WERE NOT SOME RECOMMENDATIONS IN THERE THAT MIGHT AT LEAST GET YOU TO PAUSE AND SAY, HMM, THAT MIGHT MAKE SENSE.
I MEAN, I GUESS, I GUESS WHAT I'M SURPRISED WITH IS, AND I GUESS WE'RE SURPRISED WITH, IS THE SPEED AT WHICH IT WAS ADVERTISED AND NOW IT'S ON THE AGENDA AND IT'S GOING TO BE ADOPTED.
WE'VE JUST GOTTEN WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT.
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S GOING TO BE ADOPTED? WELL, I MEAN, IF IT, IF IT GOES FROM THIS BOARD, IT COULD BE ON JUNE 17TH, I, I'D BE LUCKY TO GET AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZED AND AVERAGE AND BEFORE THE BOARD WITHIN 30 DAYS.
OVER 30 DAYS, IT'S GONNA BE OVER 30 DAYS.
WELL, IF IT'S, IF THE, IF THE BOARD HEARS ON JUNE 17TH MM-HMM.
THEY JUST, THEY JUST DID, WELL, THE ORDINANCE WAS SUBMITTED TO THE COUNTY ON MAY 17TH.
WHAT THEY AUTHORIZED US TO DO IS TO ADVERTISE A HEARING AND TO HAVE A HEARING.
WHICH DOESN'T NEED TO BE 30 DAYS.
BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY WE'VE BEEN AT THIS PROCESS, LIKE I SAID AT THE BEGINNING OF MY PRESENTATION, THE FIRST TIME WE APPEARED IN FRONT OF THIS PLANNING COMMISSION WAS IN JANUARY.
SO ALTHOUGH WE FORMALLY DID NOT SUBMIT THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT UNTIL APRIL, WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS WITH THIS, WITH THIS PLANNING COMMISSION AND WITH THE BOARD FOR APPROXIMATELY SIX MONTHS IN THE PUBLIC FORUM.
BUT, BUT BOTH PLANNING COMMISSIONS ARE RECOMMENDING TO THE BOARD.
THEY'RE NOT RECOMMENDING TO, TO, TO THIS PLANNING COMMISSION.
THEY'RE RECOMMENDING TO THE SUPERVISORS.
SO IF THE SUPERVISORS GET THE COUNTY LETTER AND SAY, OH, THESE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT POINTS HERE, THEY CAN ALWAYS SAY, LET'S SEND IT BACK TO THIS PLANNING COMMISSION.
THERE'S NO TIME CLOCK RUNNING.
'CAUSE IT'S ONLY AN ORDINANCE CHANGE.
I, I, LOOK, I'M JUST SURPRISED THAT THIS PLANNING COMMISSION DOESN'T WANNA SEE THOSE COMMENTS BEFORE THEY MAKE THEIR OWN RECOMMENDATION.
I, THAT THAT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE.
I THINK I, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE MAKING AN ARGUMENT ON BEHALF OF A NEIGHBORING SHOPPING CENTER.
WE UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM WHEN YOU SEE, YOU SAY YOU DON'T OPPOSE IT, BUT REALLY YOU'RE LOOKING TO MAKE ARGUMENTS THAT EITHER PUSH BACK OR NO, NO.
I, I, BUT, BUT I WANT THE INFORMATION.
I MEAN, I GUESS WHAT I'M SURPRISED WITH IS THAT I, I WANT THE INFORMATION.
SO LET'S, THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY, IT WAS SUBMITTED, IT'S DATED MAY 30TH.
YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO.
I, I, I GUESS I'M JUST SURPRISED THAT YOU DON'T WANT MORE AFRAID.
LOOK, I'VE HAD TOWNSHIPS SAY TO ME, WELL, I WANT ENGINEERED PLANS BEFORE I'LL DO A REZONING.
AS YOU MAY BE AWARE, WE JUST WORKED ON THE PARKHOUSE ISSUE FOR YEARS.
SO THE TOWNSHIP IS AWARE OF, UH, A SENSE OF SCALE.
AND I PERSONALLY DON'T ASSIGN THE SAME LEVEL OF SCALE THAT YOU DO TO ASSIGN TO THIS PROJECT.
YOU'RE MAKING IT SOUND LIKE THIS HAS WORD CHANGES IN IT AND THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO BE VERY MOMENTOUS THAT WE NEED TO HEAR FROM THE COUNTY ON TO, TO ME, IT'S ANOTHER PROJECT WITH A COUNTY REVIEW LETTER MATCHING FOR SINGLE A MATCHING.
I MEAN, I, I GUESS JUST, I, I MEAN YOU'RE, YOU'RE CHANGING THE ZONING AND YOU'RE PUTTING IT IN THIS DISTRICT.
I, I GUESS LOOK IN THE END, WE WANT TO, WE WANT TO EVALUATE IT THE SAME WAY YOU DO.
I MEAN, I GUESS MAYBE WE HAVEN'T BEEN AT THE TABLE FOR AS LONG AS YOU HAVE, BUT WE'VE ONLY BEEN AT THE TABLE FOR 12 MINUTES.
NO, BUT I MEAN, I, I'M SAYING WE, WE FIRST GOT INVOLVED AND REACHED OUT TO DETENTION IN MARCH.
SO I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN PARTICIPATING IN GOING TO THE MEETINGS AND LISTENING TO WHAT'S GOING ON.
SO WE'VE REALLY BEEN HERE FOR TWO MONTHS, MEANS THAT'S GREAT.
NOT TO MY, I WASN'T AWARE OF ANY COMMENTS FROM PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER, BUT, WELL, I MEAN, WE DID, I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. DION ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS.
I HAVE KEPT HIM IN THE LOOP ON WHAT PLANS WE HAVE.
I DID RECEIVE THE LETTER THAT HE WROTE TO, TO SUPERVISOR KELSEY.
AND AFTER MY DISCUSSIONS WITH HER, INSTEAD OF HAVING AN INDIVIDUAL MEETING WITH A LANDOWNER, WHICH SHE PREFERS NOT TO DO, BECAUSE THEN SHE GETS IN THE TRAP OF, OH MY GOD, I'M REPRESENTING THE BOARD AND I SHOULDN'T BE.
SO WE BROUGHT THEM, WE ALLOWED THEM, WE ASKED THEM TO COME TO THE, THE WORKSHOP THAT WE HAD A FEW WEEKS AGO IN, AT THE END OF, IN, IN MAY, MAY 13TH.
AND WE WENT THROUGH, SAME THING WE WENT THROUGH HERE WITH EACH INDIVIDUAL LAND AREA, WHAT WE THOUGHT, WHAT I THOUGHT, WHAT THE PLANNING, I REPRESENT WHAT YOU, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOUR WISHES WERE, WHERE YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS WERE AT THE TIME, AND MOVE THAT FORWARD.
[01:15:01]
DISCUSSIONS A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT SOME RETAIL AREAS DURING THAT.AND, UM, NOW WE'RE AT, AT THIS POSITION HERE.
AND, AND I UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM AND, BUT THIS IS OUR, THIS IS GENERALLY OUR NORMAL PROCESS.
I I DON'T, AND YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS.
BOB'S BEEN DOING IT FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS NOW.
I'M NOT SURE THAT WE ALWAYS LOOK AT WHAT THE COUNTY SENDS US AS A DECIDING FACTOR.
AND THAT THAT'S, AND THAT'S FINE.
I, I MEAN, I GUESS SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS, YOU KNOW, JEFFREY HAD SAID THE DESIGN GUIDELINES WILL BE WORKED OUT LATER.
I, I MEAN, I GUESS THAT'S, I GUESS THE TOWNSHIP IS TAKING A, A BIGGER LEAP THAN I WOULD IN THIS IS WHAT IT WILL BE.
I MEAN, SOME OF THE COMMENTS, YOU KNOW, WHEN I LOOK AT THE ORDINANCE, UM, YOU KNOW, I'M SURPRISED THAT THE IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE FOR THE RESIDENTIALS ALLOWED 75%.
THAT SEEMS PRETTY LARGE FOR THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENTS.
SOME OF YOUR OTHER RESIDENTIAL COMPONENTS ARE 50%.
YOU KNOW, THAT STRUCK ME AS A, A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE WE PERMITTED IN THE RESIDENTIAL PORTION OF IT.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT IT AND WE THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, AS WE TALKED ABOUT THIS MEETING, IT SEEMS TO ME TO BE SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE GRANTED BY CONDITIONAL USE APPROVAL.
BECAUSE THEN THAT WOULD ENABLE THE TOWNSHIP TO SIT THROUGH, GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, MAKE THE DECISION, AND HAVE THE ELEVATIONS THAT THEY PRESENT BE OBLIGATED AND BE BINDING ON THAT.
YOU, YOU CHANGE THE, OR THE ORDINANCE, YOU CHANGE THE ZONING AND THEN CHANGE THE TEXT.
NOW, LOOK, I'M NOT DISPARAGING, THEY PROBABLY COME IN AND MAYBE THEY'LL BE BETTER THAN WHAT THEY'RE PRESENTING, BUT A CONDITIONAL USE APPROVAL WOULD BE ABLE TO PUT, HOLD THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE AND SHOW WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO WITH THE HOUSE, WHAT THEY'RE GONNA REMODEL, WHAT IT'S GONNA BE, HOW MUCH MONEY THEY'RE GONNA PUT INTO IT.
THIS IS JUST A PROCESS THAT WE'RE LEERY OF.
ARE WE GOING TO GET WHAT WE'RE PROMISED? AND THE LEVEL AT WHICH THIS ORDINANCE IS BEING ADOPTED, YOU ARE TAKING A CERTAIN LEAP OF FAITH.
WELL, I THINK WE TAKE A CERTAIN LEAP OF FAITH ALL THE TIME WHEN WE DO THESE THINGS.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE CONTRACTOR AND THE DEVELOPER ARE, ARE, ARE REPUTABLE PEOPLE.
AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DO DO THAT.
BECAUSE I DON'T LIVE THIS EVERY DAY.
REALLY, WE GENERALLY HOLD COMMENT TO THREE MINUTES.
THIS IS NOT AN ADVERSARIAL PROCEED.
UM, YOU KNOW THAT YOU'VE HAD 20, I THINK WE UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERNS.
IN THE END, WHAT YOU'RE REALLY SAYING IS YOU WANT TO PUT, YOU WANT TO PUSH THINGS BACK.
YOU WANT TO HAVE THIS NOT HAPPENS AS FAST AT CONDITIONAL USE TO THE PROCESS TO SLOW THE WHOLE ROLL IS WHAT I'M HEARING.
BUT I WOULD SAY IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PROCESS GETS THE BEST PROJECT.
SO THE WAY YOU SAY IT MAKES IT SEEM LIKE ALL I WANNA DO IS DELAY IT.
WHAT I REALLY WANT TO DO IS MAKE SURE IT'S THE BEST PROJECT AND THAT WE CAN, IT'S IRONCLAD.
SO WE'LL CONTINUE TO BE HERE BECAUSE WE REALIZE, AGAIN, WE THINK THESE OFFICES HAVE TO BE REDEVELOPED AND WE THINK A DEVELOPMENT LIKE THIS MAKES SENSE.
WE JUST WANT IT TO BE THE RIGHT DEVELOPMENT.
WELL, I, I, I DON'T THINK WE DISAGREE WITH THAT.
I, WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE ON THAT.
WE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA TRY TO PROVE SOMETHING THAT WE THINK IS GONNA FAIL.
WE, YOU ALL WANT, I MEAN, AND, AND SO WE'RE ALL SORT OF ON THE SAME PAGE.
I HAVE OFFERED A PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS TO SIT DOWN WITH ME TO GO OVER THEIR ZONING AND TO GO OVER WHAT THEY HAVE AND TO SEE HOW I CAN IMPROVE IT FOR THEM.
SO I, THE OFFER STILL STANDS AND I'M MAKING IT PUBLICLY HERE 'CAUSE I'VE MADE IT PUBLICLY ELSEWHERE.
I'M STILL WAITING FOR THAT, THAT CONVERSATION TO HAPPEN.
I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE SOME ISSUES WITH DRIVE-THROUGHS AND SOME OTHER THINGS THAT THEY DON'T LIKE.
AGAIN, ALL THINGS, IT IS AN OLDER ORDINANCE, LIKE CO LIKE COMMUNITY REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER.
I'M WILLING TO WORK WITH 'EM ON THAT.
AND AGAIN, IF THIS PROCESS PLAYS OUT LIKE THIS ONE, THAT ORDINANCE CAN PROBABLY TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME.
AND THAT'S NOT A REASON FOR BEING HERE.
BUT I MEAN, WE APPRECIATE THE OFFER, BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, IN THE END, WE WANT THE BEST NEIGHBORS IS REALLY WHAT WE WANT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE GROUP OUT THERE? OKAY, JOE, WHAT'S OUR OPTIONS HERE? WELL, UH, YOU CAN, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT, IT WOULD BE ONE OF TWO THINGS.
YOU WOULD EITHER, UM, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, UH, TO THE SUPERVISORS IN FAVOR OF THE ORDINANCE.
THAT WOULD BE MADE A PART OF THE HEARING ON THE 17TH.
UM, IF, IF YOU OR IF YOU ACCEPTED THE GENTLEMAN'S STATEMENTS THAT YOU SHOULD WAIT UNTIL THE COUNTY LETTER COMES AND THAT THIS SHOULD ALL BE POSTPONED.
I DIDN'T EVEN ASK JEFF WHERE IT IS ON THE CALL TIME.
WE ONLY HAVE THE ORDINANCE CHANGE.
IT HAS BEEN ADVERTISED IN THE PAPER, UM, FOR THAT DATE.
OBVIOUSLY WE COULD, IF THE BOARD CHOOSES TO, THAT COULD BE CHANGED.
UH, WE HAVE NOT POSTED OR MAILED THE SITE YET.
I WAS, MY PLAN WAS TO DO THAT TOMORROW BASED ON TONIGHT'S MEETING.
THE ONLY OBSERVATION THAT I WOULD MAKE, TOM, IS THAT IF THE SUPERVISORS FIND SOMETHING IN THE COUNTY LETTER THAT CONCERNS THEM, THEY CAN READ THE LETTER, INTERPRET IT, AND DECIDE HOW TO VOTE FROM THAT RECOMMENDATION.
[01:20:01]
THEY DON'T NEED NECESSARILY TO HAVE YOU COME BACK, READ THE SAME LETTER, AND THEN TELL THE SUPERVISORS HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THE OTHER RECOMMENDATION.ARE WE SURE OR DO WE KNOW IF WE'LL HAVE THAT LETTER BY THE TIME THE SUPERVISOR? WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD.
'CAUSE I DON'T WANT, I AM NOT IN CHARGE OF THE COUNTY AND I'M NOT.
IT'S NOT THEIR WORKLOAD, BUT YES.
AND THE SAME THING HAPPENED WITH PARKHOUSE WHERE WE PUT THE ORDINANCE A COUPLE DAYS OUT OF THE 30.
I HAD A PHONE CALL WITH THAT, WITH THE COUNTY AT SOME POINT IN TIME EXPLAINING THE TOWNSHIPS WHY THE, THE GERMINATION OF THE ORDINANCE, WHICH I'M SURE I'LL BE DOING WITH THIS ONE IN THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO.
AND THEN, UM, THEY WILL ISSUE THEIR REVIEW LETTER.
BY THE TIME, YEAH, BY, WELL I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHERE TO GO ON THIS, I GUESS RIGHT NOW.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR ANY QUESTIONS OR IDEAS OR ANYTHING ON THIS BEFORE WE, I THINK THE IDEA OF HAVING THAT LETTER FROM THE COUNTY, CAN YOU SPEAK IN THE MIC, HAVING THAT LETTER FROM THE COUNTY PRIOR TO 'EM REVIEWING ON THE 17TH, CAN THAT BE A CONTINGENCY? HOW DO YOU WRAP THAT IN? WELL, YOU, WHETHER IF YOU, IF YOU APPROVE THE ORDINANCE, UM, YOU COULD JUST MAKE A PART OF IT.
JEFF COULD MAKE A PART OF THE, THE MINUTES THAT YOU FELT THAT IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT THAT THE VOTE NOT HAPPEN WITHOUT INPUT FROM THE COUNTY.
AND I WILL SAY THAT IT IS STATUTORY.
SO FROM A PROCEDURAL PERSPECTIVE, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE THAT LETTER WITHIN THAT TIMEFRAME.
AFTER 30 DAYS, IF THEY DON'T, IF THEY HAVEN'T GIVEN ANY INPUT, YOU CAN VOTE AFTER 30 DAYS.
AND I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 40 YEARS AND I DON'T RECALL THAT THEY'VE MISSED THE 30 DAY DEADLINE, BUT TWICE THAT I CAN THINK OF.
AND EVEN THOSE TWO INVOLVED LIKE A BLIZZARD AND WEIRD CIRCUMSTANCES.
WELL, IS, IS, IS AN OPTION THAT WE CAN, UH, SHE THIS UNTIL THAT LETTER GETS HERE, IF, WELL, THE ISSUE IS THAT IT IS THE, THE HEARING IS SCHEDULED.
UM, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, JUST LIKE IT'S BEEN STATED EARLIER, IF WE GET TO THE BOARD AND THERE'S SOMETHING SPECIFIC THAT THEY WANT ADDRESSED, I MEAN CERTAINLY WE WOULD, WE WOULD TALK TO THEM ABOUT THAT AT THAT HEARING.
AND IF WE WOULD NEED TO MAKE CHANGES, UM, PART OF WHAT THEN HAPPENS IS THAT WE WOULD COME BACK TO YOU WITH THAT UPDATED ORDINANCE AND THAT INPUT AND DISCUSS IT WITH YOU.
SO IT'S NOT AS THOUGH, YOU KNOW, IF IF THE BOARD DECIDED, HEY, THERE'S SOMETHING SPECIFIC IN HERE WE REALLY WANT ADDRESS.
I MEAN THAT'S CERTAINLY WITHIN THEIR PREROGATIVE TO SAY THAT.
BUT MY QUESTION IS, ALLISON, DO WE RECOMMEND SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T KNOW ALL THE INFORMATION AND THEN THE SUPERVISORS LOOK AT IT AND SAY, WELL WE CAN'T APPROVE THIS UNTIL THESE ARE ADDRESSED.
I MEAN, ARE WE MOVING IT, THERE'S NOTHING THAT FORCES THE SUPERVISORS TO MAKE A DECISION THAT NIGHT, RIGHT? THEY CAN OPEN THE HEARING AND THEY CAN HAVE DISCUSSION.
THEY CAN, ALLISON CAN PRESENT HER CASE.
THEY CAN MAKE ALL THE TESTIMONY THAT THEY WANT.
AND THE BOARD CAN SAY, WE'RE NOT WILLING TO MAKE A VOTE TONIGHT.
WE'D LIKE YOU TO GO BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION WITH THIS LETTER AND DISCUSS THIS WITH THEM TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS LETTER AND THEY CAN COME BACK AND THEN THEY WOULD BE BACK IN JULY AT THAT POINT IN TIME, WOULD THE HEARING STILL OPEN? AND THEY WOULD GET YOUR OPINION ON THE, ON THE COUNTY LETTER IF THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD CHOSE TO DO.
AND THEN THEY COULD GO BACK AND REOPEN THE HEARING AT ANY LATER DATE THAT WE WOULD REPOST RE-MAIL, RE ADVERTISE, REDO.
UM, YOU'RE JUST LOOKING FOR WHAT TO SAY? WHAT'S THAT? YOU'RE JUST LOOKING FOR A WAY TO SAY, WELL, LOOKING FOR THE, THE THE RIGHT THING TO DO HERE.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT TRYING TO DELAY IT, BUT I'M ALSO I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, HE MAKES A GOOD POINT.
WE DON'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION AND IF WE GET THAT, ARE WE EVEN GONNA DO ANYTHING WITH IT? NOW WHAT ABOUT THE REVIEW LETTERS FROM, FROM, UH, YOU, YOU STATED YOUR POSITION.
JEFF, WHAT ABOUT I I TYPICALLY, I I, I KNOW I USED TO WRITE ABOUT A LOT OF REVIEW LETTERS.
AND YOU WOULD SEE REVIEW LETTERS FROM ME.
I, I'M A LITTLE BIT OF AN AWKWARD POSITION BECAUSE I'M WORKING WITH ALLISON TO REFINE THAT ORDINANCE.
SO I COULD WRITE A REVIEW LETTER WHEN I FIRST GET IT AND SAY, HERE'S WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE.
BUT REALLY I SEND HER AN EMAIL AND I MAKE COMMENTS IN THE ORDINANCE.
SHE GOES BACK TO HER CLIENT AND WE GO BACK AND FORTH WITH IT.
IF THE ORDINANCE IS GETTING TO YOU, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THE ORDINANCE.
I I I SEE THAT I, SO, AND I COULD WRITE A LETTER.
I ABSOLUTELY COULD WRITE A LETTER SAYING THAT I'M ABSOLUTELY COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
[01:25:01]
KIND OF A, YEAH, IT'S, IT'S MOOT.BUT HOW ABOUT JEN AND ANTHONY? AGAIN, I'VE ASKED THEM THAT IF THEY HAVE ENGINEERING ISSUES SPECIFIC TO THE ORDINANCE AND SPECIFIC TO THE ORDINANCE CHANGE, THAT THEY SHOULD WRITE A LETTER THAT IF, IF THEY SEE SOMETHING IN THERE, IF THEY, IF THE ORDINANCE REQUIRED, LET'S JUST USE AN EXAMPLE THAT IT TOOK THE STORMWATER FROM A 50 YEAR STORM DOWN TO A TWO YEAR STORM.
IT CHANGED IT TO SAY WE ONLY HAVE TO DO A 10 YEAR STORM DOWN TO A TWO YEAR STORM, WHICH IS COMPLETELY CHANGES OUR ORDINANCE.
OBVIOUSLY JEN WOULD WRITE A LETTER AND SAY, I DON'T SUPPORT THIS.
BUT THERE'S NO SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES TO THE CIVIL OR TRAFFIC ENGINEERING REQUIREMENTS IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT NEED THAT, THAT REQUIRE COMMENTARY.
AND THE OTHER THING I'LL SAY, JUST BECAUSE I KNOW IT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER, WE SUBMITTED A DRAFT, YOU KNOW, OUR INITIAL TRAFFIC ANALYSIS IN FEBRUARY.
ANTHONY'S OFFICE DID REVIEW THAT INITIAL REVIEW LETTER IN APRIL.
AND SO OUR RESUBMISSION WAS IN, YOU KNOW, PARTIALLY IN RESPONSE TO THAT REVIEW LETTER.
SO THAT'S MORE SPECIFIC TO WHAT WOULD BECOME PLAN DEVELOPMENT AT SOME POINT.
BUT WE WERE TRYING TO GET, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST GET EVERYONE COMFORTABLE AND GET SOME OF THAT DATA OUT THERE.
SO THERE, THERE WAS A, THAT ACTUALLY WAS REVIEWED.
IT'S NOT AS THOUGH THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS JUST SUBMITTED IN MAY.
WE SUBMITTED AN ORIGINAL TRAFFIC STUDY IN FEBRUARY AND GOT COMMENTS ON IT, AND I'M AWARE THEN, YEAH.
I'M TALKING ABOUT THIS ORDINANCE.
I JUST WANTED TO, JUST TO CLARIFY.
AND, AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE.
UM, ANY COMMENTS FROM YOU GUYS ON, ON YOU, HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS? OR BEFORE, FRANKLY, UM, THE COUNTY COMES UP WITH THINGS THAT ARE THEORETICAL.
SOMETIMES THEY DON'T ACTUALLY PERTAIN NECESSARILY TO OUR SITUATION.
UM, WHERE I THINK WE HAVE A MUCH BETTER HANDLE ON THAT.
ON THE OTHER HAND, WE SHOULD SEE THE WHOLE THING, NOT JERRY, ANY COMMENTS? YEAH, I, I TEND TO AGREE WITH BOTH, UH, BOB'S AND NICOLE'S COMMENTS.
IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE THE COMPLETE PICTURE.
UM, SO IT REALLY WHAT YOU WOULD, THE WAY THAT IT WOULD BE PROCEDURALLY, THERE'S ALREADY A HEARING SCHEDULED BEFORE THE SUPERVISORS OKAY.
WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO, WHAT YOU'RE, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE REALLY SAYING IS THAT YOU WEREN'T, YOU'RE NOT COMFORTABLE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION WITHOUT HAVING ALL OF THE INFORMATION, INCLUDING THE COUNTY REVIEW LETTER.
THAT IT IT, AND THAT'S HOW IT WOULD GO INTO THEM.
AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO DECIDE, DO WE, WE WILL GO AHEAD ANYWAY AND WE, OR OKAY.
THEN WE WILL ALSO WAIT, BUT BY THEN THEY'LL HAVE THE COUNTY REGULAR.
SO REALLY WHAT THE ISSUE WILL BE FOR THEM WILL BE, WELL, DO WE, DO WE NEED TO SEND THIS BACK TO OUR PLANNING COMMISSION TO GET THEIR TAKE ON THE COUNTY'S TAKE? RIGHT.
BUT COULD WE ALSO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT SAYS, OKAY, WE APPROVE THIS, OR WE RECOMMEND TO THE SUPERVISORS WITH THE CONDITION THAT EVERYBODY OR THE SUPERVISOR ALL AGREE WITH WHATEVER THE COUNTY, THE INPUT THAT THE COUNTY GIVES.
IT COULD BE, COULD CHANGE THE, THE VOTE, THE RECOMMENDATION.
YOU JUST SAY LIKE, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
WELL, THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE ONE THING I SAID.
HE'S SAYING WE CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE DON'T TAKE, WE DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH IT AND LET THEM DEAL WITH IT WHEN THE LETTER COMES IN, OR WE CAN APPROVE IT OR DENY IT BASED ON, AND, AND A CHANGE COULD BE POSSIBLE IF THE LETTER DOES AFFECT SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T EVEN KNOW TODAY.
IT'S HARD TO WORD IT THAT WAY BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THE POSITION THAT, I THINK THE, THE BEST WAY TO SAY IT IS THAT YOU, IS THAT JEFF CAN TRANSMIT, UH, RELAY TO THEM THAT ASSUMING THIS IS WHAT YOU, HOW YOU FEEL THAT YOU'RE GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF IT, BUT THAT YOU DO UNDERSTAND THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY'S CONCERN ABOUT YOU NOT HAVING THE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION LETTER.
AND THAT THEY, THAT YOU ASK THAT THE SUPERVISORS CONSIDER THAT AS A PART OF THEIR DECISION MAKING.
THAT THAT'S, THAT'S THE REC THAT WOULD BE THE PROPOSAL I WOULD MAKE AT THIS POINT.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT, THAT WE'RE GENERALLY IN FAVOR WITH THE CAVEAT THAT THE SUPERVISORS REVIEW THE LETTER AND IF THERE'S A POSSIBLE CHANGE, YOU'RE LAID OFF SOMETHING THAT IS PERTINENT, THEN IT COMES BACK.
WELL, IT'S ONLY A RECOMMENDATION.
SO I MEAN, YOU CAN, YOU CAN SAY IT THAT WAY.
YOU CAN SAY IT HOWEVER YOU BEST CAPTURES HOW YOU, HOW YOU FEEL.
WELL, UM, AMY, YOU WANNA MAKE CORRECT.
YOU WANT ME TO DO IT? I YOU DO IT? OR MAYBE THOSE WON'T DO IT OR, OKAY.
I, I WOULD RECOMMEND THIS WOULD BE, THIS IS THE WAY I WOULD RECOMMEND IT, THAT WE, UM, GIVE TENTATIVE APPROVAL, UM, OR GIVE TENTATIVE, UM, UM, RECOMMEND APPROVAL RECOMMENDATION TO THE SUPERVISORS FOR THIS ORDINANCE CHANGE WITH THE CAVEAT THAT THE, UH, CONNIE LETTER IS REVIEWED AND ANY CHANGES THAT
[01:30:01]
WOULD BE APPLICABLE OR THEN, UH, GIVEN OR TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT, THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO PUT TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.AND I DON'T ASK ME TO SAY IT AGAIN BECAUSE I DON'T, I'LL SECOND, SECOND FROM NICOLE.
UH, OR THE RECOMMENDATION WILL GO AS I STATED.
HOPEFULLY JEFF GOT THAT THE MINUTE BECAUSE I COULD THANK, GOT THE CAMERAS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH EVERYBODY.
THAT WAS MORE INTERESTING THAN WE THOUGHT.
[ DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
NEXT THING ON THE AGENDA, AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ONE TOO.I THINK THIS IS ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT ONE.
JEFF SENT THIS OUT A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.
UH, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS.
WE DON'T HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS.
NOW, OBVIOUSLY I CAN EXPLAIN WHAT THE PROPOSAL IS AND WHAT STATUS IT IS NOW.
THEY'RE GONNA COME AND PRESENT NEXT WEEK.
I PUT IT, PUT THIS ON HERE ONLY BECAUSE I'M GETTING A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHEN IT'S GOING TO BE ON THE AGENDA.
SO NORMALLY I LEAVE THIS SORT OF BLANK, BUT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KNEW THAT AT THE NEXT MEETING, R FOR BAPTIST MISSION FIRST HOUSING, UM, AND IT'S ALSO NOT AN ACTIVE APPLICATION.
SO IT DOESN'T GO UNDER THE NEXT LIST ON THE SECOND, YOU KNOW, ON THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE.
UM, SO THEY'RE COMING IN JUST TO PRESENT THEIR IDEA.
AND WE HAVE NO RECOMMENDATION TO DO WITH THAT ONE AT THAT POINT ON THE 19TH.
WE HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE ANY DETERMINATION AT THAT POINT ON THE 19TH, RIGHT, JEFF? NO, WE HAVE TO MAKE, I, I DON'T THINK THE TOWNSHIP, I, I GUESS THEY FORGOT TO CHECK, BUT I DON'T THINK THE TOWNSHIP CLOSES THAT DAY.
AND I DON'T THINK, I MEAN, WHILE IT'S A HOLIDAY, I DON'T, YEAH, I DON'T, I'M IN AN AWKWARD POSITION HERE.
SO I WILL FIND THAT OUT AT THIS POINT.
LET'S JUST ASSUME IT'S, IT IS WE'RE ON.
AND IF JEFF WILL INFORM US IF WE'RE NOT.
UM, BUT AT THIS POINT WE'RE ON FOR THE 19TH JUNETEENTH.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT OR JEFF? YES.
UM, THERE WOULD BE BOARD FOR BAPTIST PROPOSAL, AS I SAID, AND THEN 7 65 SOUTH COLLEGEVILLE ROAD.
UH, THAT IS THE LOVER'S LANE PARCEL.
I KNOW I'M PAYING ALL THE CONTROVERSIAL ONES FOR ONE NIGHT.
UM, THEY HAVE REVISED THEIR, THEIR TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN AND THEY'RE NOW, UM, READY.
THE PLANS ARE AT LEAST READY FOR TE TO SKETCH THE WHOLE, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S STILL QUESTIONS OUT THERE AND THERE'S STILL THINGS THEY HAVE TO DO, BUT THEY'RE, THEY FEEL THEY'RE READY TO COME THEM BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR RECOMMENDATION ON THEIR TENTATIVE PLAN.
I'M NOT, BUT I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S GONNA BE A BIG, YOU KNOW, WATER THING.
RIGHT? THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S EVERYBODY'S ISSUE.
SO I JUST, I KNOW YOU'LL BE PREPARED.
AND THEN JUNE 3RD, WE'VE ALREADY CANCELED THAT MEETING.
JULY 3RD, WE'VE CANCELED THAT MEETING.
AND THEN JULY 17TH, WE'LL HAVE 4 25 SOUTH MENNONITE ROAD, WHICH IS A, A NINE MONTH SUBDIVISION PROPOSED FOR, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER, ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO WE DID A SUBDIVISION FOR A HOUSE AND A LARGE PIECE ON MENNONITE ROAD.
THEY WERE REHABBING THE HOUSE.
THEY WANTED TO SEPARATE OFF FROM THE LARGER LOT.
THEY'RE NOW COMING IN FOR THE LARGER LOT.
THIS WAS ALWAYS SORT OF THEIR PLAN.
UM, AND THEY'VE ALSO ADDED A HOUSE ON TRAP ROAD, SO TO MAKE A THROUGH ROAD, UM, THAT'S THEIR PROPOSAL AT THIS POINT.
SO THAT, AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WILL BE ON, ON THAT AGENDA.
UM, MY HOPE IS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WILL BE 95% OF THE WAY THERE.
AND THEN WE'RE GONNA START DISCUSSION ABOUT ACTION ITEMS AND, AND SORT OF GET SOME EARLY PRIORITIES FOR THOSE SO THAT WE CAN FINALIZE THAT IN, IN AUGUST AND WE CAN SEND IT TO THE BOARD, HOPEFULLY IN OUR SECOND MEETING IN AUGUST.
AND THEN THE BOARD CAN ADOPT IT.
AND THEN THE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY ACTION, THE ENVIRONMENT, EAC PLASTIC BAG, GRASS CUTTING WE'VE ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT.
AND BILL, HE JUST LEFT, BUT HE HAS SET US UP WITH SOMEONE THAT'S GONNA BE COMING IN AND TALKING TO US WELL OVER ZOOM ABOUT THE LOCAL CLIMATE ACTION PLAN, WHICH IS, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, THERE IS A PLAN ON, ON SUSTAINABILITY AND THEN, AND OTHER THINGS THAT THIS TOWNSHIP CAN DO.
IT'S KIND OF FOR THE BASIS FOR WHAT THE EAC CAN DO OVER THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS.
YOU LET, LET US KNOW ABOUT JUNE.
I WILL, I WILL LOOK AT THAT FIRST THING TOMORROW.
PRETTY SURE IT'S NOT A, NOT A TOWNSHIP HOLIDAY, BUT ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS OR ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING? NOPE.
[01:35:01]
ADJOURN.