[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:06]
I AM CALLING THIS SPECIAL MEETING TO ORDER FOR THE TOWNSHIP IN THE TOWNSHIP ADMINISTRATION BUILDING FOR WEDNESDAY, MAY 29TH.
UM, CALL, UH, PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE.
SO WE'LL STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF UNDER JUSTICE.
[MOTION TO APPROVE BOARD AGENDA]
FIRST THING UP IS A MOTION TO APPROVE THE BOARD AGENDA.I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE BOARD AGENDA.
I'LL SECOND I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
[EXECUTIVE SESSION REPORT]
THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO ANNOUNCE, UH, CERTAIN EXECUTIVE SESSIONS THAT TOOK PLACE.UH, THE BOARD MET IN EXECUTIVE SESSION ON TUESDAY, MAY 21ST, TUESDAY, MAY 28TH, AND WEDNESDAY MAY 29TH TO DISCUSS QUESTIONS OF LAW RELATED TO, UH, AND RECEIVE LEGAL ADVICE RELATED TO THE PARK HOUSE DEVELOPMENT AND THE CONDITIONAL USE HERE.
OKAY, SO THIS, WE'RE JUST SET UP A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY HERE.
THERE'S A PUBLIC COMMENT AND THERE'S A PUBLIC HEARING.
SO JUST SO YOU'RE CLEAR IN PUBLIC HEARING, YOU WANNA MAKE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT PARKHOUSE.
SO IF YOU'RE HERE FOR PARKHOUSE, WAIT FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING PART CAN COME UP.
UM, BUT IF THERE'S ANY OTHER COMMENTS, UM, FROM AN, UH, INTERESTED RESIDENT OR TAXPAYER WHO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT ON AN AGENDA ITEM OR NOT OUTSIDE OF PARKHOUSE, PLEASE COME UP AND IT'S THE SAME DRILL, AND I'M JUST GONNA RUN THROUGH THIS ONCE, BUT THIS APPLIES TO BOTH THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND THE PUBLIC HEARING COMMENTS.
MOST PEOPLE KNOW THIS SHOULD COME UP WHEN YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES.
THIS TIME WE'RE GONNA BE REALLY STRICT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO HAVE JUST THREE MINUTES.
I'M GONNA GAVEL THREE MINUTES, TWO MINUTES, 50 SECONDS.
YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO WRAP IT UP.
BECAUSE IF WE LET ONE PERSON GO OVER, THEN WE HAVE TO LET OTHER PEOPLE GO OVER.
YOU NEED TO KEEP IT CONCISE TONIGHT.
UM, IF YOU COME UP ONCE, THAT'S ALL YOU HAVE.
YOU CAN'T TAKE SOMEONE ELSE'S TURN.
AND GUESS WHAT? IF YOU'VE HEARD IT ONCE, SO HAVE WE.
SO IF YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT KIND OF COMMENT, PLEASE COME UP, BUT LET'S NOT HEAR THE SAME REPEATED COMMENTS.
AND LASTLY, LET'S TRY TO BE RESPECTFUL.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT SOMEONE'S SAYING AT THE LECTERN, JUST PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO YOURSELF, BECAUSE WHEN YOU GET UP, YOU WANNA BE RESPECTED AND THAT GOES TO THE BOARD AS WELL.
SO, HAVING SAID ALL THAT, IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS BESIDES PARK HOUSE THAT SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO COME UP AND SAY THREE MINUTES? SO YOU'RE ALL HERE FOR PARK? YES.
[PUBLIC HEARING]
ALL RIGHT.SO I AM GOING TO ASK FOR A MOTION TO OPEN THE HEARING.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING THE PROPOSED ZONING TAX AMENDMENT TO THE OSR DASH TWO OPEN SPACE RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY TWO ZONING DISTRICT FILED BY RRO FOR HOLDINGS LIMITED LIABILITY CORPORATION.
OKAY, I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO START THE HEARING.
AT THIS POINT, WE'RE GOING TO ENTER THE HEARING FOR EVERYBODY'S BENEFIT.
HOW THE HEARING, HOW THIS HEARING WILL WORK, UH, IS WE WILL TAKE CARE OF SOME ADMINISTRATIVE BUSINESS.
WE WILL THEN TURN IT OVER TO THE APPLICANT TO MAKE A PRESENTATION ON THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE AMENDMENT.
UH, THEY WILL HAVE THEIR TIME TO MAKE THEIR, THEIR PRESENTATION.
AFTER THAT, THE BOARD WILL, AND THE BOARD ALONE, WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THE APPLICANT ANY QUESTIONS IT HAS RELATED TO THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT.
WHEN THE BOARD IS SATISFIED THAT IT IS ASKED ALL ITS QUESTIONS, IT IT WANTS TO ASK OF THE APPLICANT, WE WILL THEN PROVIDE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
UM, THE CHAIR WENT THROUGH THE PARAMETERS FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU AGAIN TO RESPECT THE CHAIR'S DIRECTION.
UM, AS TO THE PARAMETERS OF PUBLIC COMMENT, IT IS NOT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR QUESTIONS.
IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR STATEMENTS, UH, FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE BOARD AS TO, UH, WHETHER THIS ORDINANCE SHOULD BE ENACTED.
AND SO IT IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE STATEMENTS, UM, AFTER THE PUBLIC COMMENT IS COMPLETED, THE ORDINANCE, THE ORDINANCE HEARING WILL BE CLOSED.
AT THAT POINT, THE BOARD WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS AND DELIBERATE ON THE ORDINANCE, AMENDMENT AND TAKE A VOTE.
I'LL TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SURE, DOES EVERYBODY CHECK RIGHT NOW?
UM, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THROUGHOUT THIS, WHETHER IT'S THE APPLICANT BOARD OR YOU AS THE PUBLIC MAKING YOUR COMMENT THAT EVERYBODY'S COMMENTS CAN BE HEARD.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THIS IS A HEARING.
WE HAVE A COURT REPORTER UP HERE.
UH, OUR FRIEND MR. MENARDI, IS
[00:05:01]
NOT JUST HERE.UM, SO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT THROUGHOUT THE HEARING.
HE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO HEAR EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON, AND THAT'S IMPORTANT IN TWO WAYS.
ONE, IF YOU ARE GIVING COMMENT, YOU NEED TO BE AT THE MICROPHONE.
IT NEEDS TO BE YOUR RETURN, AND YOU NEED TO SPEAK CLEARLY AND, UH, SLOWLY ENOUGH THAT MR. MAJORITY CAN TAKE IT DOWN FOR THE RECORD.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE CAN'T HAVE PEOPLE SPEAKING OUT.
I KNOW YOU ALL SAW THE NOTICE ON THE SCREEN WHEN YOU CAME IN, BUT IT IS IN THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT WE CREATE A RECORD IN THIS.
AND MR. MAGDI CAN ONLY TYPE THE WORDS OF ONE PERSON AT ANY ONE TIME.
SO PLEASE DO NOT SPEAK OVER EACH OTHER.
WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW ALL THE PROTOCOLS OF THE HEARING HERE, AND WE ASK YOU TO COOPERATE, RESPECT THE PROCESS.
THAT BEING SAID, UH, THE BOARD'S GOING TO ENTER A COUPLE EXHIBITS.
UH, TOWNSHIP ONE WILL BE A COPY OF THE APPLICATION FOR ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TOWNSHIP.
TWO WILL BE THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT ITSELF.
TOWNSHIP THREE WILL BE THE PROOF OF PUBLICATION.
AND TOWNSHIP FOUR WILL BE, UH, PROOF OF NOTES.
THIS TIME, UNLESS THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE, ADMINISTRATIVE FROM THE BOARD, UH, WE'LL TURN IT OVER TO THE APPLICANT TO BEGIN THEIR PRESENTATION.
I'M ED MUL CAN RUBEN MUL, MAXWELL LUPIN.
AND WITH ME TONIGHT IS GARY BERMAN, WHO'S THE PRINCIPAL OF HOPE LAWYERS FOR HOLDINGS.
THE LEGAL OWNER OF THE TRACK, RANDY SATAN SITTING BESIDE ME.
TO THE EQUITABLE OWNER OF THE TRACK.
ALSO, ROBERT MCCRACKEN IS HERE FROM MBR RON CLA, A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER FROM ER ENGINEERING.
MATT HAMMOND, PROFESSIONAL TRAFFIC ENGINEER FROM TRAFFIC PLANNING AND DESIGN.
AND ERIC KESEL FROM EH CREATIVE SERVICES, LLC AN A ICP PLANNING CONSULTANT, MVR AS EQUITABLE OWNER OF THE PARKHOUSE PROPERTY, FILED A REQUEST FOR A TEXT AMENDMENT TO CREATE AN OVERLAY DISTRICT, WHICH WOULD BE PERMIT DEVELOPMENT OF THE PARKHOUSE PROPERTY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ORDINANCE THAT WAS ENTERED INTO, UH, THE RECORD BY MR.
THE AGREEMENT WITH PARKHOUSE IS FOR MVR TO PURCHASE 1,203 UNITS PURSUANT TO A CONDITIONAL USE PLAN THAT IS PENDING, BUT MR. SATANI WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY MVR PROPOSES DEVELOPING FEWER UNITS, WHICH BASICALLY COMES OUT TO 3.38 12 UNITS PER ACRE.
I WOULD SUGGEST IT PROBABLY MAKES SENSE TO RESERVE QUESTIONS UNTIL YOU HEARD FROM ALL OF MY PEOPLE SO THAT YOU'RE NOT ASKING SOMEBODY A QUESTION THAT ANOTHER PERSON WOULD ANSWER.
UM, AS AN OVERVIEW, MR. SATANI WILL DISCUSS ER'S PLANS AND WHY IT'S WILLING TO GO WITH THIS PARTICULAR ORDINANCE WHILE KLAUS IS HERE REALLY FOR QUESTIONS, BECAUSE WHILE HE DOES HAVE AN ENGINEERED PLAN FOR THE 1,203 UNITS, HE DID NOT PREPARE THE PLAN BEFORE YOU TONIGHT.
UH, HE WILL TELL YOU THAT WE WILL NOT BE IMPACTING ANY STEEP SLOPES OR ANY FLOOD PLAINS, AND THAT BECAUSE OF THE TOWNSHIP STORMWATER ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS, WE'LL BE RE REDUCING STORMWATER FLOW FROM THE PROPERTY FROM A 50 YEAR STORM TO A TWO YEAR STORM, WHICH IS A VERY TOUGH STANDARD, BUT WILL DEFINITELY IMPROVE THE STORMWATER SITUATION IN THE AREA.
UH, MATT HAMON WILL BASE TELL YOU ABOUT HIS TRAFFIC STUDY AND WHY THE 600 UNIT DEVELOPMENT IS PREFERABLE TO THE 1,203 UNIT DEVELOPMENT.
AND FINALLY, ERIC ZEL AND, UH, AND MR. YEAGER, YOU WOULD ASK A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS AS WE'RE CLOSING THE LAST TIME, AND ERIC HUDSON WILL DISCUSS THE IMPACT OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND HOW OUR DEVELOPMENT WILL NOT RESULT IN THE NEED FOR ANY NEW SCHOOLS TO BE BUILT.
BASED UPON THE DEMOGRAPHIC STUDY OF PUBLIC SCHOOL ENROLLMENTS FOR THE SPRINGFIELD AREA SCHOOL DISTRICT DATED JULY 29TH, 2022.
HE WILL ALSO DISCUSS HIS DISCUSSION WITH THE POLICE, EMT AND FIRE SERVICE PERSONNEL AND WHAT HE DISCOVERED AND CLEARLY INDICATE AGAIN, THAT OUR PROJECT WILL NOT ONLY PAY FOR THE INCREASED NEEDS OF OUR DEVELOPMENT, BUT ALSO PAY FOR THE INCREASED NEEDS OF OTHER MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE IN THE PIPELINE.
SO WE'LL BE PAYING FOR ALL OF THEM, AND THEN THEIR MONEY THAT COMES IN, WE'LL BE IN ADDITION.
UM, AFTER WE SPEAK, WE'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS THE BOARD MAY HAVE.
SO WITH THAT, ANY YOU WANT TO TELL US? CERTAINLY.
SO I'M SWEAR YOU FIRST SWEAR YOU WANNA BE SWORN.
SWEAR, AFFIRM TESTIMONY ABOUT THIS PROCEEDINGS, THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH, NOT THE TRUTH.
CAN YOU SPELL YOUR NAME? STATE YOUR, UH, RED.
R-E-N-N-I-E, LAST NAME SATANI, S-E-T-T-A-N-I-A-N-N-I.
UM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH AGAIN FOR THE
[00:10:01]
OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE TONIGHT.UM, BOTH TO THE BOARD TOWNSHIP STAFF AND CONSULTANTS, AND TO THE PUBLIC.
UM, WE'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS HERE WORKING, AND I, I THINK IN WHAT'S BEEN A COLLABORATIVE MANNER, UM, ULTIMATELY TO PRESENT AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE CONDITIONAL USE PLAN THAT'S BEEN SUBMITTED TO THE TOWNSHIP.
AND THAT IS WHY WE'RE HERE IS TO PRESENT AN ALTERNATIVE.
UM, THE TEXT AMENDMENT THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED TONIGHT IS NOT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE PRESENTED ULTIMATELY SEVERAL MONTHS AGO IN FRONT OF THE BOARD.
UM, BUT WHAT I CAN SAY IS ULTIMATELY THE PROPOSAL AND WHAT THE PROJECT WILL ULTIMATELY BE AND WHAT WE AS THE APPLICANT WOULD BE WILLING TO AGREE TO HAVE CHANGED IN SOME SIGNIFICANT WAYS.
AND I WANTED TO RUN THROUGH THAT.
UM, AND, AND THE REASON FOR THOSE CHANGES REALLY HAS BEEN THE FEEDBACK FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION TOWNSHIP STAFF AND CONSULTANTS, THE BOARD AND THE RESIDENTS, AND IN THOSE SMALL PART, UM, TO THE FRIENDS OF PARKHOUSE GROUP WHO WE'VE NOW MET WITH SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS.
AND WHILE WE DON'T SEE EYE TO EYE ON EVERYTHING, I THINK WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FIND COMMON GROUND ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES.
AND WE'VE TRIED IN GOOD FAITH TO REVISE OUR PROPOSAL TO ULTIMATELY ADDRESS WHAT THOSE CONCERNS WERE FROM ALL THE VARIOUS STAKEHOLDERS INVOLVED.
UM, AND AS I'VE SAID, WE'VE RECEIVED MEANING, YOU KNOW, WE'VE TAKEN MEANINGFUL STEPS TO DO THAT.
AND WE ALSO DID RECEIVE, ACTUALLY LAST WEEK, UM, POSITIVE FEEDBACK FROM THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION WHO COMPLETED THEIR REVIEW.
AND, UM, WITHOUT GETTING INTO DETAIL, I WILL QUOTE DIRECTLY FROM, UH, THEIR REVIEW LETTER AND THAT THE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION GENERALLY SUPPORTS THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSED.
UH, AND THAT WAS DIRECTLY FROM THE LETTER.
SO ONE THING I THINK IS IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT, AND I APOLOGIZE IF I'M REPEATING MYSELF BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN OUT TO ALL THE HEARINGS, BUT THE PROPOSED TEXT AMENDMENT TONIGHT IS THE BEGINNING OF A PROCESS, NOT THE END OF THE PROCESS.
IF THE TAX MOMENT WERE TO MOVE FORWARD, UM, WE STILL HAVE THE ENTIRE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS TO GO THROUGH HERE, INCLUDING THE TENTATIVE SCHEDULING PROCESS IN WHICH A LOT OF THE CONCERNS THAT BEING EXPRESSED TO US CAN ULTIMATELY BE VETTED OUT.
AND WE CAN TAKE AN INPUT NOT JUST FROM ONE GROUP OF STAKEHOLDERS, BUT FROM ALL THE VARIOUS STAKEHOLDERS INVOLVED.
SO I DID WANNA MAKE THAT CLEAR TO EVERYBODY, IS THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS, BUT BY NO MEANS THE END OF THE PROCESS ZONING IS JUST THE FIRST STEP IN COMING TO A BROAD AGREEMENT GENERALLY, THAT WHAT WE'VE PROPOSED HERE IS A FAVORABLE ALTERNATIVE TO THE CONDITIONAL USE PLAN THAT'S ALSO BEEN PRESENTED.
SO, YOU KNOW, HOW HAVE WE CHANGED ULTIMATELY THE PROPOSAL AND TAKEN IN THAT INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY, THE TOWNSHIP AND, AND EVERYONE ELSE? UM, I WANNA RUN THROUGH THAT IN A COUPLE WAYS, BUT I'LL SUMMARIZE IT FIRST.
SO THE PRIMARY CONCERNS THAT WE'VE HEARD, AND AGAIN, THIS DOESN'T, CERTAINLY DOESN'T REPRESENT EVERYTHING, BUT GENERALLY WE'VE KIND OF, UH, IDENTIFIED THEM IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER AS THE EXTENSION OF REGIONAL TRAIL NETWORKS IN THE AREA, THE DENSITY AND THE TYPE OF HOMES THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED TO THE PROPERTY, THE HEIGHT OF THE PROPOSED HOMES ON THE PROPERTY, THE IMPACT TO SCHOOLS, THE IMPACT TO POLICE, FIRE, AND EMERGENCY SERVICES, AND ULTIMATELY THE EFFECT ON TRAFFIC.
SO AS ED SAID EARLIER, WITH REGARDS TO THE IMPACT ON SCHOOLS, THE IMPACT TO EMERGENCY SERVICES, UM, ERIC HETS WILL SPEAK, AND I WILL DEFER TO MATT HAMMOND ON TRAFFIC.
BUT BEFORE WE GET IN AND ASK THEM TO REVIEW THEIR FINDINGS, I DID WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO REFLECT ON AGAIN, HOW WE ARRIVED AT THE PLAN THAT YOU LOOK AT IN FRONT OF YOU REMINDING EVERYBODY IT IS PURE SIMPLY A CONCEPT PLAN.
IT IS, IT IS NOT A, ULTIMATELY A LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN, UH, IN THAT SENSE.
AND ALSO TO REMEMBER EVERYONE THAT WHILE THERE MAY BE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T NECESSARILY HAPPY WITH WHAT WE'VE, THE OUTCOME THAT WE PRODUCED, THIS IS THE RESULT OF A PROCESS THAT ORIGINALLY STARTED WITH THE CONDITIONAL USE PLATE AT 1,203 UNITS CAME DOWN TO 727 UNITS, 679, 614, AND ULTIMATELY 600.
BUT BEYOND THOSE CHANGES OVER THE PAST COUPLE MONTHS, WE'VE MADE SOME WHAT I FEEL ARE MEANINGFUL ADDITIONAL CHANGES, AGAIN, BASED ON FEEDBACK THAT WE RECEIVED.
SO THE FIRST OF THESE, WHICH THE BOARD DID NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT IN THE PLAN THAT WAS PRESENTED LAST TIME, IS THE PROPOSED INCORPORATION OF REGIONAL TRAIL NETWORKS.
SO, DISCLAIMER, THIS OBVIOUSLY IS NOT SOLELY AT OUR DISCRETION.
IF THE, IF THIS PLAN WERE TO MOVE FORWARD, WE WOULD NEED INPUT FROM THE TOWNSHIP, UM, FROM OPEN SPACE ADVOCATES AS WELL AS FROM THE COUNTY ULTIMATELY.
BUT WHAT WE WOULD ENDEAVOR TO DO IS ULTIMATELY CREATE A TRAIL NETWORK, NOT JUST THAT CAME THROUGH THE PROPERTY HERE, BUT THAT CONNECTED TO THE SURROUNDING EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS AND ULTIMATELY DOWN TO THE UPPER SPCO RIVER PARK AND TO THE S SPCO RIVER TRAIL, WHICH HAS A, UH, A TRAIL HEAD RIGHT DOWN HERE.
SO THE CONCEPT OF DOING THAT WOULD BE CREATE THE REGIONAL NETWORK THAT COMES THROUGH HERE.
THESE WOULD BE MULTIMODAL TRAILS, SO AT LEAST SIX FEET WIDE ASPHALTS.
SO YOU COULD TAKE, AND NOT JUST PEOPLE WALKING AND JOGGING, BUT, BUT, UH, BICYCLES ON THEM.
AND THE IDEA WAS FIND AREAS WHERE WE COULD SAFELY CREATE PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS, UM, TO TIE INTO THOSE EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS.
ULTIMATELY TO GIVE THE RESIDENTS OF COUNTRY RAGE AND, AND TO GIVE THE RESIDENTS OF RIVER PLACE DOWN HERE, A A MEANS TO GET DOWN TO THE SCO RIVER TRAIL.
AGAIN, VERY CONCEPTUAL IN NATURE, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT
[00:15:01]
WE WOULD BE COMMITTED TO DOING THROUGH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IF THIS WERE TO MOVE FORWARD.UM, PART OF WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THERE IS HOW TO, AGAIN, CREATE THOSE SAFE CROSSINGS OF THESE MAJOR ROADWAY AREAS TO GET THOSE RESIDENTS DOWN THERE.
UM, SECONDLY, WE'VE REEVALUATED THE TYPES OF HOUSING THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED ON THE PROPERTY.
UH, ONE PIECE OF CONSISTENT FEEDBACK THAT WE HEARD, BOTH FROM THE PRINCIPAL PARK HOUSE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND NOW REALLY STRONGLY, I THINK FROM FROM BOARD AND STAFF, IS THEY DIDN'T FEEL THE STAFF TOWN HOMES WERE APPROPRIATE IN THIS LOCATION AND ON THIS PROPERTY.
SO BASED ON THAT FEEDBACK AND IN RESPONSE TO, TO THE REQUEST FROM THE TOWNSHIP AND THE BOARD, UM, WE ARE WILLING TO AGREE TO REMOVE THE STAFF TOWN HOMES FROM THE PLAN AND PROCEED WITH A PLAN STILL OF 600 UNITS, BUT LIMITED TO THE PRODUCT TYPES THAT WE, THE OTHER PRODUCT TYPES THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED, WHICH ARE THE REAR LOADED TOWN HOMES, FRONT LOADED TOWN HOMES, AGE RESTRICTED CARRIAGE HOMES, AND THE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOMES.
SO, AND I WILL TALK IN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW WE PROPOSED TO RESTRICT THOSE USES, BUT WE WOULD BE AGREEABLE TO REMOVING THE STACK TOWN HOMES FROM THE PLAN.
UM, WE KNOW IT WAS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE TO MANY OF THE PEOPLE HERE AND BOTH IN THE AUDIENCE AND ON THE BOARD.
AND WE WANT YOU TO KNOW WE HEARD YOU, WE DID, AND WE ARE TRYING OUR BEST HERE TO ACCOMMODATE WHAT WE CAN WITHIN REASON AND TRY TO COME TO COMPROMISE.
UM, SIMILARLY, AND KIND OF ALONG THE SAME LINES, ONE OF THE MAJOR POINTS OF CONTENTION WE HEARD WAS THE HEIGHT OF THE HOMES WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
NOW, OBVIOUSLY, FOREGOING THE STACK TOWN HOMES GOES A LONG WAY IN REDUCING THE HEIGHT, BUT WE WOULD ALSO BE WILLING TO GO ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK WAS, UM, YOU KNOW, VERY VALIDLY POINTED OUT, UH, BY A RESIDENT IN THE PREVIOUS MEETING WAS MOST OF THE EXISTING RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS IN THE TOWNSHIP ARE RESTRICTED TO 35 FEET BUILDING HEIGHT.
AND THE WAY THE TOWNSHIP DEFINES BUILDING HEIGHT, UM, WE WOULD BE AGREEABLE TO LIMITING ALL OF THE BUILDINGS WITHIN THE PROPERTY AND THE DEVELOPMENTS OF 35 FEET HEIGHT, UM, THE SAME AS WE PROVIDE IN ALMOST ALL THE OTHER RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
AND WHILE WE KNOW THAT THERE'S BEEN PROPOSALS OF EVERYTHING FROM NO HOUSES TO 253 TO SOME OTHER NUMBER, UM, WHILE WE'RE NOT WILLING TO, TO, YOU KNOW, NEGOTIATE ON THAT POINT, LAWYERS FOR HOLDINGS, AND MR. BERMAN IN PARTICULAR, UH, HAS MADE AN OFFER HERE TO ESSENTIALLY DONATE AN ADDITIONAL WHAT WOULD BE LAND FOR AN ADDITIONAL 15 HOMES ON THE PROPERTY AND AGREE TO, TO A RESTRICTIVE COVENANT ON THE PROPERTY THAT WOULD LIMIT THE MAXIMUM DENSITY OF 585 HOMES.
SO AGAIN, I REALIZE THAT THAT'S NOT A NUMBER THAT NECESSARILY ANYBODY SAID, WELL, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT.
BUT IN AN EFFORT OF TRYING TO MEET PEOPLE IN SOME KIND OF MIDDLE GROUND, WE WOULD BE WILLING TO RESTRICT THAT TO 585 HOMES.
AND SO THE QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT I KNOW HAS COME UP IN PREVIOUS MEETINGS IS, YOU KNOW, HOW WOULD WE THAT THE, THE TOWNSHIP AND THE RESIDENCE BE INSURED THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THOSE PROMISES? SO PRIOR TO TONIGHT'S MEETING, WE VOLUNTARILY DELIVERED A, UH, DECLARATION OF RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS, UH, TO MR. NYAK THAT ESSENTIALLY WOULD OBLIGATE NOT JUST NVR, BUT THE PROPERTY OWNER AND ANY FUTURE OWNERS OR SUCCESSORS TO LIMIT THE HEIGHTS OF ANY BUILDINGS TO 35 FEET TO PROHIBIT THE CONSTRUCTION OF ANY STAFF TOWN HOME UNITS ON THE PROPERTY, AND TO LIMIT THE ULTIMATE DENSITY TO THE MORE THAN 585 DWELLING UNITS ON THE PROPERTY.
SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTOOD WE HAD TAKEN THAT STEP, AGAIN, PROACTIVELY, VOLUNTARILY, TO TRY AND AT LEAST ADDRESS SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAD HAD HEARD ABOUT BEFORE.
UM, ONE OTHER ITEM THAT HAS COME UP ROUTINELY IN OUR MEETINGS WITH RESIDENTS, AND AGAIN, I THINK EVERYBODY FOR THE TIME, WE'VE HAD SOME MORE MEETINGS INCLUDING SINCE THE LAST PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, UM, WITH, YOU KNOW, GROUPS OF INDEPENDENT RESIDENTS AND FRIENDS OF PARKHOUSE AND THEY'VE ALL, AGAIN, BEEN VERY PRODUCTIVE AND, YOU KNOW, VERY CORDIAL.
AGAIN, EVERYBODY'S, YOU KNOW, I I THINK TREATED EACH OTHER WITH RESPECT, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO COME HERE TONIGHT AND AND AGREE THAT, HEY, WE WOULD MAKE A FEW ADDITIONAL FURTHER CONCESSIONS IN THE EFFORT OF FINDING A COMPROMISE.
SO ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT HAS COME UP, BUT WE HAVE NOT MODIFIED ON THE PLAN IS, YOU KNOW, COULD WE RELOCATE ON THE PROPERTY WAREHOUSES THE HOUSING IS LOCATED? AND SO THE COMMITMENT WE CAN MAKE TONIGHT HERE IS WE ARE OPEN TO THAT DISCUSSION WITH ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS.
ULTIMATELY, IT'S NOT NV R'S DECISION ORDERS FOR HOLDINGS DECISION WHERE THE HOMES ARE LOCATED.
UM, IT REQUIRES INPUT FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION TOWNSHIP STAFF AND PROFESSIONALS, THE EXISTING RESIDENTS WHO, WHO NEED THEIR VOICES TO BE HEARD AND ULTIMATELY THE BOARD.
BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS, IS THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN PROCESS AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IS FOR THAT THE TOWNSHIP HAS.
SO OUR COMMITMENT WOULD BE WE WILL SOLICIT ALL THAT INPUT, AND ULTIMATELY WHAT THE BOARD AND PLANNING COMMISSION DECIDES IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE TOWNSHIP, WE WOULD LOOK AT RELOCATING HOMES, YOU KNOW, ANYWHERE ON THE PROPERTY, PROVIDED THAT IT WORKS WITHIN, AGAIN, THE NATURAL CONSTRAINTS
[00:20:01]
OF THE PROPERTY AND HOW WE THINK THAT, THAT IT CAN BEST BE LAID OUT.SO THAT IS EQUIPMENT THAT WE MADE.
WE'VE HEARD THE SUGGESTION MULTIPLE TIMES.
THE POINT WE'VE TRIED TO MAKE IS THAT REALLY IS INHERENTLY NOT A ZONING ISSUE, AND IT'S AN ISSUE THAT THAT REQUIRES INPUT FROM ALL OF THE STAKEHOLDER GROUPS.
SO WHILE THE ORDINANCE BEFORE YOU IS NOT CHANGED, I I SAY WITH CONFIDENCE AND, AND REALLY BELIEVING IT, THAT THE PROPOSAL WE'RE MAKING AND THE LIMITATIONS THAT WE'RE OFFERING UP HAVE CHANGED SINCE WHAT WE ORIGINALLY PRESENTED TO YOU SEVERAL MONTHS AGO.
UM, NAMELY IN THE ELIMINATION OF THE STACK TOWN HOMES, A FURTHER REDUCTION IN DENSITY REDUCTION IN BUILDING HEIGHT, AND AGAIN, THE INCORPORATION OF THE OVERALL TRAIL NETWORKS.
UM, IF THE ORDINANCE IS ADOPTED, WHAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO COMMIT TO IS TO SOLICIT INPUT FROM EVERYBODY AND, AND AGAIN, CONTINUE ALONG THIS PROCESS, WHICH THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING OF.
SO WITH THAT SAID, OBVIOUSLY HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, BUT BEFORE WE MOVE TO THAT, I WANTED TO AT LEAST TURN IT OVER TO MATT AND ERIC, ALLOW THEM TO GET INTO SOME MORE DETAIL ON SOME OF THE MORE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS REGARDING, YOU KNOW, OVERALL FISCAL IMPACT AND IMPACT OF SERVICES WITHIN THE TOP SHEET.
OKAY, RON, FIRST, BRAD, MR. MULLEN, IF YOU'LL ALLOW ME TO INTERRUPT WHILE, WHILE YOUR NEXT, UH, PRESENTER COMES UP HERE, THE TOWNSHIP DOES WANT MARK AN ADDITIONAL EXHIBIT, AND THAT'S TOWNSHIP FIVE, WHICH IS THE LETTER FROM MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION.
RON, WOULD YOU IN PLEASE SOLEMN SWEAR AFFIRM TESTIMONY ABOUT GIVE THIS PROCEEDING THE TRUTH? TRUTH THE TRUTH? I DO.
IF YOU COULD STATE AND SPELL YOUR NAME FOR PLEASE.
RON, WHAT'S YOUR OCCUPATION? I'M A CIVIL ENGINEER WITH BOULDERER ENGINEER.
AND HOW MANY YEARS HAVE YOU DONE THAT? I'VE BEEN CIVIL ENGINEER FOR APPROXIMATELY 35 YEARS, AND 28 OF THOSE HAVE BEEN WITH POLAR ENGINEERING.
ARE YOU LICENSED IN THE COMMONWEALTH PENNSYLVANIA? YES, I AM.
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN QUALIFIED AS AN EXPERT WITNESS IN CIVIL ENGINEERING BEFORE A MUNICIPAL BODY FOR COURT OF LAW? YES, I HAVE.
AND I HAVE BEEN BEFORE THIS COURT IN UPPER PROVINCE, UH, SEVERAL TIMES.
AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU DID PREPARE A PLAN FOR THE 1,203 UNIT CONCEPT, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
AND YOU ARE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION? YES, I AM.
AND SO THE DEVELOPMENT PROPOSED IS UNDER THE OSR TWO OPEN SPACE RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY ORDINANCE.
AND CAN YOU TELL US THE NUMBER OF UNITS THAT ARE PROPOSED OF EACH TYPE? SURE.
SO AS RENNY MENTIONED, PROPOSED FOR 600 UNIT, UH, MIXED RESIDENTIAL USE, 44 SINGLE FAMILY, UH, UNIT BUILDING UNITS, 153 ACTIVE ADULT CARRIAGE HOMES, UH, 177 OF THE FRONT ACCESS TOWN HOMES FOR EARLIER REFERENCE AND 226 OF THE REAR ACCESS TOWN, TOWN HOMES.
ARE YOU COMFORTABLE THAT THIS SKETCH PLAN OR SOMETHING LIKE IT COULD BE ENGINEERED AND BUILT, MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ORDINANCE? UH, YES.
AS I SAID, WE HAVEN'T ENGINEERED THE PLAN YET, BUT CERTAINLY WE FEEL THAT THIS, THIS LAYOUT CAN BE ENGINEERED TO BE SATISFACTION OF THE TOWNSHIP ORDINANCES.
AND WOULD IT AFFECT THE FLOOD PLAIN AREA, STEEP SLOPES, WOODLANDS, OTHER FEATURES? UH, NO.
AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE SKETCH, THE LARGE GREEN AREA UP THE MIDDLE, WHICH IS THE, THE, THE STEEP SLOPE AREA ALONG WITH THE, UH, WETLANDS AREA AND THE STREAM AREA HAVING LEFT, UH, UNTOUCHED OR, UH, LEFT
AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE TOWNSHIP STORMWATER REQUIREMENTS WHEN I MENTIONED 50 TO TWO? CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS? YEAH, SO, UH, YOUR ORDINANCE IS, UH, PRETTY STRINGENT AS FAR AS STORMWATER MANAGEMENT GOES COMPARED TO SOME OTHERS AROUND THE AREA.
SO, UH, DEVELOPERS REQUIRED TO REDUCE THE 50 YEAR POST-DEVELOPMENT, UH, RUNOFF RATES DOWN TO THE TWO YEAR PRE-DEVELOPMENT RUNOFF RATES.
NORMALLY IT'S A, UH, TWO TO TWO OR MAYBE SOMETIMES A 10 TO REDUCTION.
THIS IS A 50 YEAR TO TWO YEAR, UH, REDUCTION.
SO THAT'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION OF STORMWATER RUNOFF AND BOTTOM LINE, IS YOUR OPINION, IS THE PROPOSED SITE SUITABLE FOR THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT? YES, I BELIEVE SO.
PLEASE, WE ABOUT THAT BEFORE YOU GOT SOLEMN SWEAR OR AFFIRM? I DO.
PLEASE STATE AND SPELL YOUR NAME FOR ME.
AND WHAT IS YOUR OCCUPATION? I AM A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER SPECIALIZING IN TRAFFIC AND TRANSPORTATION.
BY WHO ARE YOU EMPLOYED? UH, TRAFFIC PLANNING AND DESIGN.
HAVE YOU REGULARLY BEEN ENGAGED BY LAND USE LAWYERS AS A TRAFFIC ENGINEER CONSULTANT? I HAVE.
AND HAVE YOU QUALIFIED AS AN EXPERT WITNESS OF TRAFFIC ENGINEERING BEFORE MUNICIPAL BODIES OR COURT
AND YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH SITE IN QUESTION TODAY? YES.
I'M, AND YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THIS OWN REZONING APPLICATION, WHICH WAS FILED THE MDR,
[00:25:01]
THE ORDINANCE THAT'S BEING PROPOSED? YES.AND YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE SKETCH PLAN THAT'S BEEN SHOWN ON THE SCREEN? I AM.
AND HAVE YOU DONE AN ANALYSIS AS THE IMPACT ON TRAFFIC CONDITIONS OF MAY OCCUR? IT'S A PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT DEVELOPED ON THE PROPERTY? UH, YES, I HAVE.
UM, WE PREPARED AN ANALYSIS BASED ON FEEDBACK, UH, GIVEN BY THE TOWNSHIP TRAFFIC ENGINEER AS WELL AS PENDOT.
UH, WITH RESPECT TO THE INITIAL BREADTH OF THE ANALYSIS, THEN WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT YOU DID AS PART OF THAT WITH THE INPUT FROM THE, UH, TOWNSHIP TRAFFIC ENGINEER? SURE.
UH, SO TO DATE, WE HAVE PREPARED, UM, I'LL CALL A DRAFT TRAFFIC STUDY AT THIS POINT.
UH, THE TRAFFIC STUDY, UH, LOOKED AT, UH, THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT IN QUESTION AND ANALYZED APPROXIMATELY 15 SURROUNDING INTERSECTIONS.
UH, THESE INTERSECTIONS WERE IDENTIFIED THROUGH INITIAL COORDINATION, AS I MENTIONED, WITH THE TOWNSHIP TRAFFIC ENGINEER AS WELL AS PENDO TO DETERMINE THE MAIN INTERSECTIONS THAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED.
UM, WITHIN THIS ANALYSIS, UH, THESE INTERSECTIONS EXTEND APPROXIMATELY MILE, MILE AND A HALF FROM THE SITE, FROM THE CLOSEST POINT OF THE SITE, UM, INTERSECTION, OBVIOUSLY OF BLACKROCK AND SECOND AVENUE, BLACKROCK AND JAGER ROAD, UH, TRAP ROAD AND MENNONITE ROAD, TRAP ROAD AND HOPWOOD ROAD, OLD STATE ROAD ROAD, UH, OLD STATE ROAD AND HAFNER SECOND IN OLD STATE, OLD STATE MENNONITE OLD STATE IN BECO, SECOND IN SPRINGER TOWN, SECOND IN VAUGHN, BLACKROCK, ROAD AND TRAP ROAD, COLLEGE ROAD AND BLACKROCK ROAD, DIEGO ROAD AND SOUTH LOUIS ROAD.
AND IF WE'RE MADE DRIVEWAYS, UH, TO BE, UH, THAT ARE DEPICTED ON THE PLAN, WE'RE ALL INCLUDED IN THAT ANALYSIS.
UH, TRAFFIC COUNTS WERE CONDUCTED IN 2023.
THOSE, UH, 15 LISTED INTERSECTIONS, UH, DURING THE AIM OF P AND PEAK HOURS OF TRAFFIC TO RECORD THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT CURRENTLY TRAVELS THROUGH AS INTERSECTIONS.
UM, CRASH ANALYSIS WAS DONE AT THOSE STUDY AREA INTERSECTIONS AS WELL.
AND THEN THE TRIPS, UH, TO BE GENERATED WERE DETERMINED BASED ON THE UNIT MIX, UM, AS PROPOSED.
NOW, I WILL POINT OUT THAT THE ANALYSIS WAS BASED ON THE, UH, 76 STACKED TOWN HOMES THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY INCLUDED IN THE PLAN, WHICH HAVE NOW BEEN CONVERTED TO REAR AND FRONT LOAD TOWN HOMES.
UH, BUT I WOULD POINT OUT THAT THAT SHOULD NOT, WOULD NOT CHANGE THE ANALYSIS.
UM, AS BOTH STACKED AND REAR LOAD AND FRONT LOAD TOWN HOMES ARE CLASSIFIED THE SAME FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE.
MR, CAN YOU JUST MOVE THE MICROPHONE TO THE OTHER SIDE? YOU TEND TO CHEAT THIS WAY, AND I THINK THE AUDIENCE IS, IS LOSING YOU ON MY SPEAKER.
UM, SO WE LOOKED AT THOSE INTERSECTIONS, AS I MENTIONED DURING THE PEAK HOURS.
UH, WE DETERMINED THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC TO BE GENERATED BY THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT.
WE SUPERIMPOSED THAT TRAFFIC ON THOSE 15 INTERSECTIONS AND PREPARED AN ANALYSIS TO DETERMINE HOW THOSE INTERSECTIONS OPERATE TODAY AND HOW THEY OPERATE IN THE FUTURE.
UH, ONCE THE DEVELOPMENT, UH, WAS FULLY BUILT OUT, UH, AND, UH, TRAFFIC WAS, UH, ENTERING AND EXITING, UH, THOSE VARIOUS ACCESS POINTS.
AND WOULD YOU BE MAKING IMPROVEMENTS TO THOSE INTERSECTIONS? WE WOULD.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF IMPROVEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED AS A RESULT OF OUR ANALYSIS.
I WOULD POINT OUT THAT THESE ARE THE ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY PROPOSING AS PART OF DEVELOPMENT IS, I BELIEVE, UH, MR. SATANI HAD TESTIFIED TO OR MENTIONED THAT THIS IS A PROCESS.
THIS IS A VERY EARLY STAGES OF A PROCESS.
AND, UH, AS WE CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD, ASSUMING WE'RE SUCCESSFUL THIS EVENING, AS WE CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD, THERE'LL BE NUMEROUS CONVERSATIONS AND COORDINATION WITH THE TOWNSHIP TRAFFIC ENGINEER AS WELL AS PENDO TO REFINE THE PROPOSED IMPROVEMENT PACKAGE AND MAKE SURE THAT, UH, WE ARE MEETING OR EXCEEDING, UH, BOTH THE TOWNSHIP AND PENDO STANDARDS.
BUT SO FAR, UH, WHAT WE HAVE, UH, PROPOSED ARE CERTAIN IMPROVEMENTS IN THE INTERSECTION.
ONE, UM, PARTICULARLY ALONG THE FRONT OF GENERAL STATE ROAD.
I KNOW THAT THROUGH VARIOUS, UH, PREVIOUS MEETINGS WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AS WELL AS THE BOARD, AS WELL AS DISCUSSIONS, UH, WITH THE RESIDENTS, THERE'S BEEN CONCERN WITH RESPECT TO OLD STATE ROAD AND THE WIDTH OF OLD STATE ROAD, WHICH, UM, I BELIEVE, UH, ONE OF THE RESIDENTS STATED THAT IT'S DIFFICULT FOR A SCHOOL BUS AND A VEHICLE TO GET PAST EACH OTHER ON THAT ROAD.
[00:30:01]
WHAT WE FOUND IS OLD STATE ROAD IS APPROXIMATELY 9 19 18 TO 19 FEET WIDE, UH, ALONG THE SITE'S FRONTAGE, AND WE'LL BE PROPOSING TO WIDEN THAT ROAD, UH, IN ACCORDANCE, UH, WITH THE ORDINANCE BASED ON THIS CLASSIFICATION AS A FEEDER ROAD, UH, TO PROVIDE FOR A, UM, 19 FOOT HALF WIDTH.UH, SO ADDITIONAL NINE TO 10 FOOT OF WIDENING ALONG THE FRONTAGE, WHICH EQUATES TO ABOUT 4,000 LINEAR FEET OF WIDENING.
UH, THERE ARE TWO AREAS ON THAT ROAD WHICH YOU DO NOT OWN OR CONTROL.
ONE IS THE, UH, THE INTERSECTION OF SECOND AND OLD STATE ROAD, WHICH WE DO NOT, UH, CONTROL THE PROPERTY.
GOODNESS, THE OTHER ONE, MY HAND GO
SO IT'S THE PROPERTY RIGHT HERE ON THE CORNER AS I'M SHOWING ON THE EXHIBIT.
UH, WE DO NOT CONTROL THAT PROPERTY, NOR DO WE CONTROL THE LARGE RECTANGULAR PROPERTY ON THE EAST SIDE.
UH, BUT FROM THIS POINT HERE WEST ALONG THE PROPERTY, IT'S ABOUT 4,000 LINEAR FEET OF WIDE THAT WE WOULD BE PROPOSING.
UH, WE'RE ALSO, UH, LOOKING TO COORDINATE WITH THE TOWNSHIP'S ROUNDABOUT PROJECT, UH, TO FACILITATE PEDESTRIAN CONNECTIONS AS WELL AS EDUCATION OF THE TWO PROPOSED ACCESS POINTS, ONE ON SECOND AVENUE AND ONE ON BLACKROCK ROAD.
WE'RE LOOKING AT VARIOUS TRAFFIC SIGNAL TIMING ADJUSTMENTS, UH, THROUGH, UH, SOME OF THE STUDY AREA INTERSECTIONS.
WE'RE ALSO LOOKING, AND IT'S JUST OFF THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE HERE OF A TRACK ROAD AND ONE 13 HAS BEEN EXPRESSED TO US THAT THE INTERSECTION OF ONE 13 AND TRAP ROAD IS A VERY DIFFICULT INTERSECTION TO ADVOCATE.
IT WAS BROUGHT UP ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS, UH, BY THE RESIDENCE, AND IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH TRAP ROAD IN THIS AREA, IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE A CUP HANDLE, UH, WHERE IT HAS TWO CONNECTIONS, UM, TO 1 13, 1 ON THE WEST SIDE AND ONE ON THE EAST SIDE.
IT SERVES APPROXIMATELY FIVE TO SIX RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE LOOK TO DO IS IN WORKING WITH THE TOWNSHIP IN PENDO IS LOOK TO INVESTIGATE THE POSSIBILITY OF MAKING TRAP ROAD A ONE WAY OPERATION, UH, IN A CLOCKWISE FASHION, ALLOWING ALL VEHICLES TO ENTER ON THE WESTERN SIDE AND ALL VEHICLES TO EXIT ON THE EASTERN SIDE, WHERE THERE'S MUCH MORE SITE DISTANCE AVAILABLE AROUND THE STRAIGHTER SECTION OF THE ROADWAY.
UM, MAKING IT EASIER AND SAFER, UH, FOR VEHICLES TO EXIT OUT INTO THAT AREA.
NO, I WILL SAY WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT, UH, AN IMPROVEMENT TO THE INTERSECTION OF DIEGO ROAD AND SOUTH LEWIS ROAD WILL WIDEN 4 75 FOOT NORTHBOUND, UH, RIGHT TURN LANE.
AND THEN FINALLY, UM, IN ADDITION TO SOME, UH, MAINTENANCE OF VEGETATION AND SOME REGRADING ALONG THE SITE FRONTAGE TO IMPROVE SITE LINES, UH, WE ARE ALSO, UM, REQUIRED BY ORDINANCE TO PAY A TRAFFIC IMPACT FEE, WHICH LOOKING AT THE TRIP GENERATION WOULD EQUATE TO NEARLY $900,000 THAT THE TOWNSHIP WOULD UTILIZE, UH, FOR ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS OR, UM, GOOD CREDIT.
THE, UH, THE APPLICANT FOR ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS, ADDITIONAL ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS TO BE, UH, PROVIDED FOR IN THE STUDY AREA.
SO IN ADDITION TO SATISFYING THE TOWNSHIP TRAFFIC ENGINEER AS THE SAFETY OF THE IMPROVEMENTS TO BE DONE ALL, YOU ALSO HAVE TO SATISFY PENDOT, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
UH, BLACKROCK ROAD, UM, AND SECOND AVENUE, UH, JUST ALONG THE SITE FRONT OF SHARE ARE BOTH MEN OWNED AND CONTROL ROADWAYS.
SO NOT ONLY WOULD WE HAVE TO, UH, SEEK APPROVAL OF THE TOWNSHIP THROUGH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AND COORDINATE WITH THE TOWNSHIP STAFF AND CONSULTANTS, WE'D ALSO NEED TO SEEK APPROVAL FROM PENN KNOT TO OBTAIN WHAT'S CALLED A HIGHWAY OCCUPANCY PERMIT IN ORDER TO ACCESS THE STATE ROADS AS WELL AS ANY IMPROVEMENTS THAT WOULD BE, UH, EFFECTUATED WITHIN THE, UH, STATE RIGHT OF WAY.
HOW MANY FEWER TRIPS PER DAY WOULD BE GENERATED BY THIS PLAN VERSUS THE CONDITIONAL USE PLAN? UH, APPROXIMATELY 350 TO 375.
LESS TRIPS WILL BE GENERATED, UH, BY THE CURRENT PROPOSED PLAN VERSUS THE CONDITIONAL USE PLAN.
[00:35:01]
AFFIRMING THE TRUTH.I DO YOU STATE AND SPELL YOUR NAME? ERIC HETZEL.
ERIC, UH, WHAT IS YOUR OCCUPATION? I'M A CERTIFIED LAND PLANNER.
AND FOR HOW MANY YEARS HAVE YOU BEEN PRACTICING? UH, ALMOST 30 YEARS.
AND BY WHOM ARE YOU EMPLOYED? UH, EH CREATIVE SERVICES, LLC.
ARE YOU A MEMBER OF ANY PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATIONS? SO I'M A MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN PLANNING ASSOCIATION AND THE PENNSYLVANIA CHAPTER OF THAT ORGANIZATION.
I'M ALSO A MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE CERTIFIED PLANNERS, WHICH IS THE CERTIFYING BODY OF MY A ICP CERTIFICATION.
HAVE YOU BEEN INVOLVED AS A LAND PLANNER AND RESIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL INSTITUTIONAL MIXED USE AND CAMPUS PLANNING? I HAVE ALONG THOSE.
AND IN YOUR ROLE AS A LAND PLANNER, HAVE YOU PREPARED FISCAL IMPACT STATEMENTS? I HAVE.
UH, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN QUALIFIED AS AN EXPERT WITNESS IN LAND PLANNING AND URBAN DESIGN BEFORE MUNICIPAL BODY
AND YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION? I AM.
NOW, AS A RESULT OF MEETING PREVIOUSLY, WE DISCUSSED THE IDEA THAT YOU WOULD COME UP WITH A FISCAL IMPACT STUDY AND SHOW THE COST TO THE TOWNSHIP AND TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, AND THE IMPACT, UH, OF THIS DEVELOPMENT ON BOTH.
AND AS PART OF THAT, DID YOU MEET WITH ANYBODY FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT? I HAD A PHONE CONVERSATION WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT SUPERINTENDENT.
AND HOW ABOUT THE POLICE FIRE? AN EMT? YES, I MET WITH, UH, NUMEROUS, UH, PUBLIC SAFETY STAFF AS WELL.
NOW AS A RESULT OF THAT, CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE STUDY RESULTS? YES, UH, I'LL BEGIN WITH, UH, AN EXPLANATION OF THE, UH, METHODOLOGY THAT I USED.
I USED, UH, PER CAPITA MULTIPLIER MODEL THAT WAS DEVELOPED BY THE RUTGERS UNIVERSITY CENTER FOR URBAN POLICY RESEARCH IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE URBAN LAND INSTITUTE.
AND THAT MODEL, UH, PROJECTS, REVENUES AND COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH NEW GROWTH.
UM, AND IT'S BASED ON THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT PLAN, THE VALUES OF THE UNITS IN THAT PLAN, THE TAX RATES AND LAND USE MIX OF THE TOWNSHIP, UM, AND THE BUDGETED REVENUES AND EXPENDITURES OF THE TOWNSHIP AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
AND WHAT WAS, WHAT, WHAT ABOUT THE SCHOOLS? UM, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A CONCERN THAT OUR PROJECT WOULD GENERATE SO MANY CHILDREN THAT A NEW SCHOOL WOULD'VE TO BE BUILT.
UH, MY ESTIMATION WAS, UH, USING, UH, POPULATION DEMOGRAPHIC MULTIPLIERS PROVIDED BY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT WERE CONTAINED IN THEIR DEMOGRAPHIC AND ENROLLMENT STUDY IN 2022, UM, THAT ARE SPECIFIC TO THE MIX OF UNIT TYPES IN THIS DEVELOPMENT.
AND, UH, CONSISTENT WITH SIMILAR, UH, COMMUNITIES IN THE AREA THAT THIS PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT WOULD GENERATE APPROXIMATELY 2 34 SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN SPREAD ACROSS GRADES K THROUGH 12.
AND DO WE HAVE A CHART THAT, UH, FEW COULD YOU PUT UP? OKAY.
NOT THAT ONE, THE ONE WITH THE SCHOOL? NOPE, THAT'S, YEP, THAT'S THE ONE.
AND WHERE DID YOU GET THAT INFORMATION FOR THAT CHART? THIS CAME FROM THE, UH, SCHOOL DISTRICT'S, UH, DEMOGRAPHIC AND ENROLLMENT PROJECTION REPORT FROM 2022 THAT'S PREPARED BY SUNDANCE ASSOCIATES.
AND SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING HERE IS THAT EVEN WHEN YOU ADD OUR 234 SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN, TWO THE SCHOOLS, EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL ON THAT LIST IS STILL NOT AT FULL OCCUPANCY? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THIS ALSO ACCOUNTS FOR, UH, OTHER DEVELOPMENTS THAT WERE IN THE PIPELINE AT THE TIME THAT THAT REPORT WAS DEVELOPED.
AND WE USED THE SAME MULTIPLIERS THAT THAT ANALYST FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT USED IN PROJECTING THOSE SCHOOL AGE PUBLIC SCHOOL AGE STUDENTS.
AND WHEN YOU MET WITH THE, UH, POLICE, WHAT DID THEY PREDICT? WHAT THEY WOULD NEED IN ORDER TO TAKE CARE OF OUR DEVELOPMENT? AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, OTHER DEVELOPMENTS IN THE PIPELINE, I, I MET WITH, UH, CHIEF FREEMAN, UH, WHO EXPLAINED THAT
[00:40:01]
THIS DEVELOPMENT, UM, ALONG WITH THE OTHER DEVELOPMENTS IN THE PIPELINE, UH, WOULD NECESSITATE, UH, TWO ADDITIONAL POLICE STAFF AND ONE ADDITIONAL POLICE CALLER.AND WHAT IS THE COST OF THOSE ITEMS? UH, POLICE STAFF ARE ESTIMATED AT $100,000 PER, UH, STAFF MEMBER THAT INCLUDES SALARIES AND BENEFITS AND THE, UH, THE POLICE CAR WAS ESTIMATED AT $70,000.
SO THOSE COSTS WOULD BE $270,000? CORRECT.
AND WHAT ABOUT FIRE? WHAT DID THEY ESTIMATE? FIRE? SAME, SAME THING THAT YOU NOTED THAT, UM, REALLY IT WASN'T A QUESTION OF WHETHER THEY WOULD NEED NEW ASSETS, JUST A MATTER OF WHEN.
AND, UH, THEY ESTIMATED THAT THEY WOULD REQUIRE ONE ADDITIONAL SERVICE TRUCK TO SERVICE THIS DEVELOPMENT.
UM, IT WOULD NOT NECESSARILY NEED TO BE A LADDER TRUCK DUE TO THE HEIGHT OF WHAT'S PROPOSED IN THIS DEVELOPMENT SINCE WE GET AWAY WITH THE STACKED DOWN HOUSES.
UH, IF WE STILL HAVE THE STACKED DOWN ANALYSIS DID MEAN A LADDER TRUCK? CORRECT.
UH, DID YOU GO ON TO A SITE TO DETERMINE THE COST OF FIRE TRUCKS? I DID SOME INTERNET RESEARCH.
I FOUND THE MUNICIPAL.COM WEBSITE, WHICH IS A, UH, WEBSITE THAT SELLS, UH, USED MUNICIPAL EQUIPMENT, BUT ALSO PROVIDES GUIDANCE TO MUNICIPALITIES, UM, IN UNDERSTANDING CAPITAL PURCHASES.
AND I FOUND AN ARTICLE ON THEIR BLOCK THAT NOTED THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF FIRE APPARATUS AND COST RANGERS FOR THOSE TYPES OF APPARATUS.
UM, WHAT WAS IDENTIFIED AS A FIRE ENGINE, WHICH IS IN THE HIERARCHY OF THINGS, UH, ONE LEVEL BELOW THE HIGHEST FUNCTIONING PIECE OF APPARATUS BEING A LADDER TRUCK.
UH, THAT WEBSITE ESTIMATES COSTS, DEPENDING ON FEATURES AND EQUIPMENT FIT OUT ON THAT TRUCK TO BE BETWEEN 400, 400,000 AND $700,000 FOR A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT.
SO ADDING THE POLICE AND FIRE TOGETHER AND TAKING THE WORST CASE WE'RE LOOKING AT $970,000? CORRECT.
NOW, DID, DID YOU IN YOUR STUDY DETERMINE HOW MUCH, UH, WHAT THE RESULTS WOULD BE AS TO INCOME TO THE TOWNSHIP AND INCOME TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AFTER EXCLUDING THEIR VARIOUS COSTS? YES.
UM, AND JEFF, CAN WE PUT THAT ONE UP? YEP.
AND WOULD YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE BOARD WHAT THAT SHOWS? THIS SUMMARIZES THE RESULTS OF MY ANALYSIS.
IT NOTES THAT THERE WOULD BE 600 RESIDENTIAL UNITS, UH, WITH THE TOTAL MARKET VALUE OF FOUR $56,300,000, UH, TRANSLATES TO AN ASSESSED VALUE OF 161,000,808 $511.
AND THEN IT NOTES THE PROJECTED RESIDENTIAL POPULATION OF 1,262 TOTAL PERSONS OF WHICH WOULD BE 234 SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN, PUBLIC SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN.
LOOKING AT THE, THE TOWNSHIP REVENUES AGAINST EXPENDITURES REVENUES INCLUDES, UH, ALL OF THE BUDGETED TYPES OF REVENUES THE TOWNSHIP COLLECTS TODAY, INCLUDING REAL ESTATE TAX BUILDING PERMITS, EARNED INCOME TAX REVENUE, UH, TRANSFER TAXES, LOCAL SERVICES TAX, UH, AS ESTIMATED ON AN ANNUAL BASIS TO PRODUCE 1,000,002 $28,292 AGAINST COSTS OF $572,000, 572 230 $5, WHICH LEADS TO A NET TOWNSHIP FISCAL IMPACT ANNUALLY OF $656,057.
THOSE EXPENDITURES, UH, WERE PROJECTED ON A CAPITA BASIS BY PREPARING A COST MODEL BASED ON THE TOWNSHIP'S 2024 BUDGET, HOW THE TOWNSHIP SPENDS MONEY TODAY AND HOW IT'S ALLOCATED AMONG RESIDENTIAL LAND USES.
SIMILARLY FOR THE SPRINGFIELD AREA SCHOOL DISTRICT, I LOOKED AT REVENUES FROM PRIMARILY, UH, REAL ESTATE TAXES AND EARNED INCOME TAX, UH, TO ESTIMATE REVENUES TOTALING $6,515,466 ANNUALLY AGAINST SCHOOL DISTRICT EXPENDITURES.
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ESSENTIALLY THE COST TO PROVIDE SERVICES TO, TO THE CHILDREN IN THE SCHOOLS TOTALING 3 MILLION 934, 740 $6 ANNUALLY, WHICH WOULD LEAD TO A NET SCHOOL DISTRICT FISCAL IMPACT AND POSITIVE OF $2,580,720.NOW, IN A, IN ADDITION, LIKE, SO THE, UH, TOWNSHIP EXPENDITURES OF 5 72 DON'T INCLUDE THE POLICEMEN, WELL I GUESS IT MIGHT INCLUDE THE POLICEMEN, BUT NOT THE EQUIPMENT WITH THE CAR AND THE FIRE ENGINE, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.
THOSE WOULD BE CAPITAL EXPENDITURES.
UH, MY ESTIMATE IS BASED ON OPERATING EXPENDITURES.
NOW, IN ADDITION TO THE TAXES THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT, AND, AND I THINK YOU DID MENTION TRANSFER TAXES, BUT IS THAT INCLUDED IN YOUR NUMBER ANNUAL TRANSFER TAXES ARE INCLUDED, BUT WHAT'S NOT INCLUDED? THERE ARE INITIAL TRANSFER TAXES, UH, THAT WOULD ACCRUE FROM THE SALE OF THE HOMES FROM THE BUILDER TO THE FIRST HOMEOWNERS.
AND HOW MUCH MONEY WOULD THAT GENERATE FOR THE TOWNSHIP FIGURING THAT THEY SPLIT WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT? IF YOU ASSUME THAT THE TOTAL MARKET VALUE IS ROUGHLY $4.5 MILLION, UM, THEN IT WOULD BE A HALF A PERCENT OF THAT TOTAL, WHICH WOULD BE 2.25 MILLION.
SO THEN WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE TRANSFER TAX THAT ARE INCLUDED IS AFTER THE PROJECT'S BUILT OVER THE YEARS, PEOPLE SELL THEIR HOUSE AND THEY BUY A HOUSE AND COME IN AND OUT, BUT THIS IS IN ADDITION TO THAT, SO AN ADDITIONAL 2,224,000 OR WHATEVER, AND THAT WOULD PAY FOR THE POLICE, THE FIREARM AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT THE SHIP NEEDS, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S COMING JUST FROM OUR DEVELOPMENT.
WE WOULD EXPECT SIMILARLY THAT OTHER PROPOSED PROJECTS THAT ARE IN THE PIPELINE THAT WERE ESTIMATED POPULATION IMPACTS, UM, THAT GO INTO THE BUDGETING FOR CAPITAL EQUIPMENT FOR THINGS LIKE PUBLIC SAFETY WOULD ALSO BE CONTRIBUTING SIMILARLY.
UH, BUT IT'S TRUE THAT OUR DEVELOPMENT WOULD SINGLE HANDEDLY COVER THOSE COSTS.
SO IN YOUR OPINION, AS A PROFESSIONAL LAND PLANNER WITH OVER 25 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, DOES THE ADOPTION OF THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWNSHIP PERSPECTIVE RATHER THAN THE PRESENT ZONING? IT DOES.
WE'RE OPEN FOR QUESTIONS, MADAM CHAIR, THAT WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE TIME FOR THE BOARD TO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT BASED MY PRESENTATION.
YEAH, SO JUST WHAT YOU WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT, UM, THAT BASICALLY THIS PAYS FOR ITSELF IS WHAT I UM, SORRY, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? SO WHAT YOU'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THAT THIS BASICALLY WILL PAY FOR ITSELF, UM, HOUSES ANY DIFFERENT THAN, THAN THE 1200 UNITS WOULDN'T LIKE.
WHY IS THAT? WHY IS THIS, CAN YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE HOW THE 600 IS MORE FINANCIALLY BENEFICIAL TO THE TOWNSHIP THAN THE 1200 UNITS THAT YOU HAVE PROPOSED IN THE OFFICIAL USE? I DID PREPARE A FINALIZED, UH, 1200 UNIT PLAN FISCAL ANALYSIS.
IT HAS A DIFFERENT FISCAL PROFILE, DIFFERENT RESIDENT PROFILE.
UM, THE UNITS WOULD HAVE DIFFERENT VALUES AND HENCE A DIFFERENT TOTAL MARKET VALUE.
UM, SOCIOECONOMIC DEMOGRAPHICS WOULD BE DIFFERENT.
SO THAT COULD IMPACT THE REAL ESTATE TAX REVENUES AND EARNED INCOME TAX REVENUES.
AND SO, UM, THE MODEL YOU YOU USE FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT, UM, IS IT APPROPRIATE FOR THIS TYPE OF TOWNSHIP? ARE THERE, I MEAN I'M SURE THERE'S MANY MODELS OUT THERE.
WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THIS ONE AND HOW LIKE I'M SURE YOU CAN PICK ANY MODEL TO KIND OF MEET WHAT YOU WANTED TO MEET, YOU KNOW, SO THIS IS CONSIDERED TO BE THE INDUSTRY STANDARD MODEL.
IT'S USED, UH, MANY TOWNSHIPS IN THIS AREA ACTUALLY CALL FOR ITS USE IN THEIR CODE.
UM, SOMEONE ELSE CAN GO AHEAD.
AND JUST TO CLARIFY ON THE, UM, ON GENERATING THE SCHOOL, THE NUMBER OF SCHOOL CHILDREN, THAT'S WHERE WE WENT SPECIFICALLY TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND GOT THE STUDY THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT THEMSELVES COMMISSIONED IN 2022.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE REQUESTS THAT WAS MADE FROM US WAS COULD YOU FIND SOME MORE, MORE LOCAL INFORMATION? SO WE ACTUALLY FOUND WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS THE BEST DATA POINT WE COULD, THE INFORMATION DIRECTLY FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT COMMISSION STUDY FROM SPRINGFIELD.
I HAVE SOME TRAFFIC QUESTIONS.
[00:50:01]
IT'S YOUYOU SAY YOU'RE GONNA MAKE IT NINE FEET WIDER TO ACCOMMODATE.
WOULD THAT COME FROM THE DEVELOPMENT PROPERTY OR YOU WOULDN'T COME FOR THE RESIDENCE THAT LINE UP AGAINST THE OLD STATE? CORRECT.
SO I BELIEVE WHAT THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES IS THAT FOR FEETER ROAD REQUIRED A 60 FOOT RIGHT OF WAY AND A 38 FOOT WIDE CART LENGTH, I'M SORRY, 38 FOOT WIDE CART LENGTH.
SO TAKING HALF OF THAT, WHICH IS NORMALLY WHAT YOU DO, DEVELOPING A ONE SIDE OF THE ROAD, WE WOULD CLOSE A WIDE SO THAT WE WOULD PROVIDE A 19 FOOT WIDE CARPLAY ON OUR SIDE ON THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE OF ALL THE STATE ROAD.
SO WE WOULD NOT BE LOOKING WIDE ON THE NORTHERN SIDE ONLY ALONG THE FRONTAGE THAT WE CONTROL, WHICH WOULD GIVE YOU ABOUT A 19 FOOT WIDE CARPLAY FOR ABOUT 4,000 LINEAR FEET.
AND THEN THE TWO, YOU, UM, PROPERTIES IN EITHER END OF OLD STATE, YOU SAY THAT IS NOT, YOU DON'T HAVE CONTROL OVER THOSE? CORRECT.
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN THERE? YOU'D STOP WIDENING THE ROAD WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE THEM OR HOW WOULD THAT LOOK? SO IT'S A GOOD, GREAT, GREAT QUESTION.
UM, SO ONE OF THE THINGS, THE FIRST STEP IN WHAT WE WOULD DO IS WE WOULD, UM, CONDUCT A, A SURVEY OF THE AREA, UH, DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD, CONDUCT A SURVEY OF THE AREA, DETERMINE WHERE THE RIGHT OF WAY ACTUALLY EXISTS AND IF THERE IS ANY AVAILABLE LAND ALONG THOSE TWO PROPERTIES, UH, THAT WERE WITHIN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY THAT WE COULD UTILIZE, UH, FOR IMPROVEMENTS.
UM, ASSUMING THERE IS NONE, WE'RE ASSUMING IT'S VERY SMALL, WE WOULD OBVIOUSLY, UH, HAVE TWO OPTIONS.
ONE WOULD BE TO, UH, TAPER THE IMPROVEMENTS BACK INTO THE ROADWAY OR AT LEAST EXTEND THOSE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE PROPERTY LINE AND THEN USE SCRAPING, TAPER THOSE BACK IN, UM, OR NEGOTIATE WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER TO ACQUIRE, UH, A PORTION OF FRONTAGE IN ORDER TO EXTEND THOSE ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS.
BUT IF THERE'S NO PROPERTY AVAILABLE, THEN THAT PROPERTY OWNER DOES NOT DESIRE TO PARK WITH ANY PROPERTY.
UM, THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE NEEDED DEPENDING ON THE RESULT OF THE SURVEY THAT WE WOULD OBVIOUSLY, UH, BE LIMITED WHAT WE COULD OR COULD NOT DO THERE.
PROPERTY DOWN AT THE END, NEXT TO SECOND AVENUE, I THINK WOULD HAVE TO BE FIXED BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO MAKE A LEFT OFF OF IT ALREADY.
I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S AT LEAST SOME CHANGES THAT CAN BE MADE TO AN INTERSECTION FROM A SITE DISTANCE PERSPECTIVE, BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT'S ONE OF THE INTERSECTIONS THAT HAS BEEN MENTIONED HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE FOR THE RESIDENTS THAT CURRENTLY TRAVERSE THAT INTERSECTION IS SOMETHING THAT, AGAIN, MOVING FORWARD WE WORKING WITH PENN KNOT BEING THE SECOND AVENUE OF PENDO ROAD AND BEING AT OLD STATE ROADS AND TOWNSHIP ROAD, CONTINUE TO LOOK AT WHAT THINGS COULD POTENTIALLY BE DONE AT THAT INTERSECTION TO HELP IMPROVE THE OPERATION.
THEN ONE LAST ONE ONLY BECAUSE THIS HAS COME UP AND TOM, THIS ONE'S YOURS, THIS YEAGER AND LEWIS ROAD.
IT'S, IT'S BAD NOW IN THE MORNING BECAUSE THE SCHOOL'S THERE ONCE YOU GET ON ULU AND FROM THREE TO FIVE, SO YOU MENTIONED WIDENING IT FIVE FEET SO YOU CAN MAKE A RIGHT TURN.
IS THAT RIGHT? 1 75 FOOT LONG, RIGHT TURN LANE.
SO IT'D BE ABOUT 14 FOOT WIDE FOR 75 FEET.
SO WE LOOKED WIDE FOR A FULL WIDTH FOR A TURN LANE, NOT JUST FIVE FEET, BUT A FULL WIDTH FOR A TURN LANE.
OKAY, YOU MEANT THAT? YEAH, I GOTCHA.
SO, SO I'LL BUILD ON SOME OF THAT.
SO HAVE YOU DONE ANY STUDY TO UNDERSTAND, IS THERE, DO YOU HAVE, WHO OWNS THE LAND THERE AT THAT CORNER OF YAGER AND SOUTH LEWIS? IS IT, I MEAN, HOW PRACTICAL AND WHAT KIND OF GUARANTEE IS THERE IN, IN THAT KIND OF IMPROVEMENT? SO WE HAVE NOT DONE A STUDY IN THE STUDY.
I, I THINK IT NEEDS, WE SURVEY THE AREA TO DETERMINE WHERE THE PROPERTY EXISTS OR DOESN'T EXIST, BUT WE HAVE NOT, BUT WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS DONE, UM, VISUALLY INSPECTED IT AND BASED ON THE ROAD GEOMETRY TODAY, THE SHOULDERS OF THE ROAD AND WHERE WE THINK IT'S LIKELY THAT THE PROPERTY LINES EXIST, WE FEEL THERE IS ROOM TO PROVIDE FOR THAT TERM.
UH, ONE THING I WOULDN'T WANT TO DO IS, IS, IS LOOK AT IT AND SAY IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVIDE IT, UM, AND STILL PROPOSE IT.
UM, BUT IT LOOKS FEASIBLE AT THIS POINT.
OBVIOUSLY THE SURVEY WILL BEAR OUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S PROPERTIES BASED ON THE SHOULDERS AND THE WIDTH THROUGH THAT AREA.
IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE NO ROOM TO PROVIDE THAT LANE.
I I HAVE AN ADDITIONAL QUESTION ABOUT ROADS.
SO THE RECTANGLE YOU DON'T OWN, I'M A PRACTICAL MAN, SO IF WE'RE WILLING TO DO WORK OUTSIDE OF WHAT'S ON THE SCREEN HERE, WHY, WHY WOULD IT NOT
[00:55:01]
BE PRACTICAL TO JUST WIDEN OLD STATE ALL THE WAY TO BLACKROCK? WHY, WHY, WHY STOP SHORT? UM, SO I I AGREE A HUNDRED PERCENT THAT IT'D BE PRACTICAL TO, TO PROVIDE THE EXTENT.UH, MY COMMENT WAS MORE DUE TO THE FACT THAT WE CONTROL 4,000 LITER FEET.
WE DON'T CONTROL THOSE TWO CORNER PROPERTIES.
SO PENDING THE RESULTS OF A SURVEY AND HOW MUCH RIGHT OF WAY IS AVAILABLE TO US, I DON'T THINK THE APPLICANT WOULD BE AT FIRST TO EXTENDING THAT WIDENING TO THOSE FAR REACHES OF, OF OLD STATE ROAD.
BUT AGAIN, IF IT IS A SITUATION WITH THAT RECTANGLE, A PIECE OF PROPERTY, UH, IF THE EDGE OF THE ROAD IS CURRENTLY ON THE EXISTING RIGHT OF WAY, WE CAN'T FORCE THAT PROPERTY OWNER TO, TO PROVIDE US THE LAND NECESSARY TO WIDE THE ROAD SO WE CAN COMMIT THE WINDING ALONG OUR FRONTAGE BECAUSE WE CONTROL EVERYTHING ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
WE CAN'T COMMIT THE LIGHTING ON THOSE TWO FAR PARCELS.
BUT AGAIN, IF THERE'S RAILWAY AVAILABLE, THEN I DON'T THINK THERE'S, UM, CONCERN AT LEAST FROM OUR SIDE AS TO EXTENDING THAT LIGHTING OR IF THE PROPERTY OWNER WAS AMENABLE TO, UM, AN EASEMENT OR UM, SELLING OFF A PORTION OF, OF PROPERTY IN ORDER TO EFFECTUATE THOSE IMPROVEMENTS.
I JUST, I JUST WANTED TO BE CLEAR THAT WHAT WE CAN CONTROL AT THIS POINT, BUT WE'RE NOT ADVERSE TO HAVE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSIONS IN INVESTIGATING IT, REGARDLESS OF 1203 OR 600 WHOLE STATE IS GONNA HAVE TO BE IMPROVED, I THINK IS WHAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED.
SO AT WHAT STAGE OF THE PROCESS DO WE TALK ABOUT THAT? IS THAT A TENTATIVE PLANNING? IS THAT A, I MEAN, HOW, HOW DO YOU, WHAT, WHAT STAGE OF THE PROCESS DO, DO WE KNOW THAT 'CAUSE IN, 'CAUSE IN MY MIND EITHER WAY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S TWO DOORS, RIGHT? THERE'S DOOR ONE, THERE'S DOOR TWO, YOU STILL HAVE TO DO LAND IMPROVEMENT.
AT WHAT STAGE DOES THAT COME INTO THE CONVERSATION? SO I DON'T DISAGREE IT EITHER PLAN WOULD REQUIRE SOME LEVEL IMPROVEMENTS TO OLD STATE ROAD.
UM, BUT THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD OCCUR EARLY ON IN THE PROCESS.
OBVIOUSLY IF WE'RE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO MOVE FORWARD AND ABLE TO START TO PURSUE, UH, THE SUBJECT PLAN, THEN I BELIEVE, AND I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR NVR MR BURNMAN, BUT IT'S LIKELY THAT THINGS LIKE SURVEY, UM, THOSE TYPE OF THINGS WOULD, WOULD START AND GIVE US A CLEAR PICTURE ON WHAT AREAS WE CAN WORK IN AND WHAT AREAS WE MAY HAVE SOME PROBLEMS. BECAUSE THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE KIND OF WANT TO FIGURE OUT EARLY ON IN THE PROCESS.
'CAUSE THAT'S GONNA FRAME HOW WE MOVE FORWARD IN TERMS OF THE OVERALL IMPROVEMENT PACKAGE.
I HAVE, I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU.
UM, SO THE AIR AND OR THE, THE DIFFERENCE IN THE HEAR ME THE DIFFERENCE IN THE NUMBER OF TRIPS DOESN'T SEEM THAT LARGE CONSIDERING THE DOUBLING ON THE AMOUNT OF UNITS FROM, YOU KNOW, 1203 TO 600 AND THE AGE RESTRICTION DIFFERENCES.
SO WHAT ARE THE, LIKE HOW DO YOU LIKE, HELP ME UNDERSTAND HOW IT'S SO MUCH LOWER FOR MORE PEOPLE THAT WOULD MOST LIKELY BE COMMUTING TO WORK AND KIDS THAT WOULD HAVE CARS.
AND SO IT'S, IT'S NOT JUST AS IF THE CONDITIONAL USE PLAN IS TWICE AS LARGE AS THE, THE CURRENT PLAN, UH, BEING PROPOSED, BUT THE TRAFFIC IS NOT.
AND THE REASON IS IS THAT THE 1,203 UNIT PLAN IS ALL AGE RESTRICTED DEVELOPMENT.
SO YOU'RE, YOU TEND TO SEE LESS DRIVERS, YOU TEND TO SEE LESS TRIPS.
I'M SORRY TO CLARIFY, 6 3, 7, 5 IS LESS IS LOWER FOR THE 1203, LIKE THE NO, NO, THE 600 UNIT PLAN GENERATES 375 LESS TRIPS OVER THE COURSE OF A DAY THAN DOES THE 1200 UNIT PLAN.
SO I UNDERSTAND WHY, HOW THAT WORKS.
SO YOU HAVE TWICE AS MANY UNITS THE PLAN, BUT YOU WOULD ASSUME THAT THEY'RE NOT, MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE PROBABLY ARE IN, YOU KNOW, EIGHTIES OR NINETIES.
AND AS THEY AGE IS THE WHOLE POINT THAT THEY AGE INTO, YOU KNOW, RETIREMENT AND THE OLDER HOMES THAT THEY WOULDN'T BE COMMUTING AND THEY WOULDN'T BE DRIVING WERE PEOPLE AND WORKING PEOPLE AND YOU KNOW, 600 UNITS WOULD PROBABLY TWO PEOPLE, THREE CARS, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST.
SO LET ME PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE.
SO OVER THE COURSE OF THE DAY, THE CURRENT PLAN WOULD GENERATE ABOUT 2000 VEHICLES A DAY.
ON THE ROADWAY NETWORK, THE 600 PLAN, THE 600 PLAN ABOUT 2000 VEHICLES WOULD BE ADDED TO THE ROADWAY NETWORK THAT WE DISPERSE THROUGH.
OBVIOUSLY AS YOU GET FURTHER AWAY FROM THE DEVELOPMENT, THE 1,203 UNIT PLAN, EVEN THOUGH IT'S TWICE AS MANY UNITS WOULD GENERATE 2,250 VEHICLES A DAY.
SO IT'S, THAT'S WHY THE DIFFERENCE IS NOT THAT MUCH IS CORRECT BECAUSE IT'S THE TYPE OF DRIVER.
YEAH, IT'S THE TYPE OF RESIDENT.
SO 1200 UNITS THAT ARE ALL AGE RESTRICTED, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE LESS TRIPS THAN YOU WOULD FOR A MARKET RATE RESIDENTIAL UNIT, BUT YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE HALF AS MANY PHONE.
WHAT ARE LIKE THE AIR BARS IN THIS, LIKE 3 75 PLUS OR MINUS, LIKE 50%
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OR JUST LIKE, UM, LISTEN, IT, IT IT'S THE TRIP GENERATION THAT THE, THE, THE DATA THAT WE UTILIZE IS BASED ON ACTUAL COUNTS CONDUCTED AND SIMILAR TYPE OF FACILITATION.SO YOU DON'T USE THE MODEL, THIS IS JUST A REAL NUMBERS THAT YOU'RE, SO YOU DON'T USE THE MODEL OF ANYTHING.
THIS IS JUST LIKE THE REAL NUMBERS YOU COUNTED AND THEN YOU'RE JUST LIKE, I'M JUST, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW YOU GET THE ESTIMATE BECAUSE IT, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OUT THERE FOR ME.
SO, UM, THE, AS TRAFFIC ENGINEERS, WHEN WE TRY TO ESTIMATE TRAFFIC GENERATED BY CERTAIN DEVELOPMENTS IN THE FUTURE, UM, WE UTILIZE AN INDUSTRY PUBLICATION CALLED THE INSTITUTE OF TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERS TRIP GENERATION MANUAL.
AND WHAT THAT MANUAL IS, IS A COMPILATION OF THOUSANDS OF STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN CONDUCTED ACTUAL EXISTING OPERATING FACILITIES THAT ARE CATEGORIZED BY USE.
UM, THAT DATA IS COMPILED AND THEN THEY PROVIDE VARIOUS WAYS TO COMPUTE THE FUTURE TRIPS, WHETHER IT'S THE RATES, WHETHER IT'S EQUATIONS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE, AND VARIOUS VARIABLES.
SO WHENEVER WE LOOK TO PROJECT TRAFFIC FOR DEVELOPMENT, WE UTILIZE THAT MANUAL.
THERE'S CERTAIN, YOU KNOW, UM, CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE YOU DON'T, BUT FOR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS WE DO BECAUSE THERE'S SUCH A BREADTH OF DATA.
THERE'S SO MUCH DATA THAT'S BEEN COLLECTED, EXISTING RESIDENTIAL UNITS, UM, THAT WE UTILIZE THAT INFORMATION TO DETERMINE THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT WOULD BE GENERATED BY A FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.
SO FOR RESIDENTIAL, THERE'S PROBABLY 12 OR SO SUBCATEGORIES WHERE THEY HAVE TOWN HOMES, THEY HAVE SINGLE FAMILY MARKET RATES, THEY HAVE AGE RESTRICTED, ATTACHED, AGE RESTRICTED, DETACHED, UM, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
SO IT'S KIND OF DETERMINING WHAT THE DEVELOPMENT IS, CATEGORIZING IT, AND UTILIZING THE DATA THAT'S BEEN COLLECTED.
UM, ONTO THE NUMBER OF UNITS I GOT JUST CLARIFICATION A QUESTION.
SO THE OSR TWO TEXT AMENDMENT, ALTHOUGH THE PLANS AT 600 IS WRITTEN AT FIVE PER ACRE, WHICH BY MY MAP HOLD ME TO, IT COULD BE APPROXIMATELY 900 HOMES RIGHT ON THE PROPERTY.
HOWEVER, WHAT YOU DISCUSSED EARLIER IN YOUR OPENING COMMENTS WAS A DECLARATION THAT NOW SAYS THAT MAX IS 600, MEANING THE DECLARATION CAPS IT AT 600.
AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, I'M JUST LOOKING FOR CLARIFICATION, WE'LL CALL IT THE BERMAN 15.
RIGHT? THERE'S, THERE'S A, THERE'S A 15 MORE THAT, THAT MR. BERMAN WAS GOING TO BUY BACK.
IS THAT, IS, AM I UNDERSTANDING? I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND IT VERY PERFECTLY.
THAT IT'S CA AT 600 CAN'T, CAN'T GO UP TO THE NINE.
'CAUSE THAT WAS A HUGE RISK, RIGHT.
IN YOUR, IN YOUR ORIGINAL PLAN PLANNING COMMISSION, THE WRITTEN DECLARATION, WHICH IS SIGNED AND ACKNOWLEDGED AND IN YOUR SOLICITOR'S HANDS SAYS THAT THERE WILL NOT BE MORE THAN 585 HOUSES BUILT ON THIS PROPERTY IF THIS ORDINANCE IS ADOPTED.
THE BERMAN 15, ARE THEY CONTINUOUS OR ARE THEY ON THE END? LIKE, I WOULD LOVE IT IF THEY WERE PUT TOGETHER SO THEY COULD BE USED AS OPEN SPACE.
WE JUST DON'T KNOW EXACTLY AGAIN, BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE NOT AT PLANNING YET.
IT JUST WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE IF TO PUT, YOU KNOW, ONE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE EXACTLY.
I DON'T, IT'S NOT GONNA BE THAT.
THE IDEA WAS THIS IS ACC CREATIVE TO THE OVERALL OPEN SPACE THAT WOULD BE OFFERED.
IT WOULD BE ADDED IN AND MAYBE CONNECTED TO THE OPEN SPACE.
AND THEN, AND THEN I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE MIX.
'CAUSE LAST TIME YOU WERE IN FRONT OF US, I MADE MENTION THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS MAGICAL ABOUT THE OVER 55 SECTION OF THE PLAN ON THE SCREEN AND THE OVER 55.
SO I, SO, SO I EVEN THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETINGS AND TONIGHT I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T, AND MAYBE I MISSED IT HERE.
UM, WHY, WHY THAT'S THE PERFECT, THE 25 70 5% IS THE PERFECT MIX.
AND, AND WHEN IT GETS TO LAND DEVELOPMENT, IS THERE FLEXIBILITY IN THE 44 SINGLE 1 53 CARRIAGE, 1 77 FRONT ACCESS AND 2 26 REAR ACCESS? WHERE'S THE FLEXIBILITY LEVEL IN THAT? SO LET ME, LET ME START WITH YOUR FIRST QUESTION, WHICH IS WHAT'S MAGIC ABOUT THE MIX? AND REALLY FOR US, WHAT IT WAS, WAS IT CLOSELY RESEMBLES WHAT THE OVERALL MAKEUP OF THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY IS.
SO SOME OF THE DEMOGRAPHICS THAT I, I STATED THE PLANNING COMMISSION WERE ABOUT 37.5% OF THE TOWNSHIP'S CURRENT POPULATION IS AGE 25 TO 44.
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19.7% IS AGE 45 TO 64.NOW, RECALL OUR AGE RESTRICTED UNITS WERE PROPOSING TO BE ABOUT TO BE 55 PLUS.
SO IF YOU TAKE THAT 9.9%, THAT'S AGE 65 PLUS JUST HALF OF THE 45 TO 64 POPULATION GETS YOU TO JUST UNDER 20%.
SO THE THOUGHT WAS WE'RE GOING A LITTLE BIT ABOVE THAT WITH WHAT WE'RE ALLOCATING TOWARDS THE AGE RESTRICTED, UM, FOR US AS A BUILDER, AND, AND FRANKLY I THINK AS A PROJECT OVERALL, THE BENEFIT TO IT IS IT ALLOWS US TO HAVE A FASTER PROJECT, WHICH MEANS THE REVENUES THAT ARE BEING GENERATED PART OF THE PROJECT COME INTO THE TOWNSHIP MORE QUICKLY.
THE CONSTRUCTION TIME OF THE PROJECT IS GREATLY REDUCED VERSUS HAVING, BECAUSE IT REALLY ALLOWS US TO MEET DIFFERENT SEGMENTATIONS OF THE MARKET WITH THOSE HOMES.
IT ALSO ALLOWS US TO GET DOWN TO FRANKLY PRICE POINTS THAT ARE CLOSER TO, YOU KNOW, EITHER A FIRST TIME OR A FIRST MOVE UP BUYER, WHICH WE CAN'T NECESSARILY DO.
OBVIOUSLY AN AGE RESTRICTED BUYER DOESN'T MEET THAT.
SO IT'S A COMBINATION OF TRYING TO REFLECT THE, THE EXISTING COMMUNITY, UM, TRYING TO ACCELERATE FOR EVERYBODY'S BENEFIT, THE TIMING OF THE PROJECT, AND THEN ULTIMATELY BEING ABLE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT WE FEEL LIKE, OKAY, WE, WE ARE, WE'RE ALREADY GOING ABOVE WHAT THE, THE EXISTING MAKEUP OF THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY IS IN TERMS OF THOSE PERCENTAGES.
UM, YOUR SECOND QUESTION REGARDING FLEXIBILITY.
SO WHAT WE'VE COMMITTED TO IN THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANT THAT WE DELIVERED IS A MINIMUM OF 25% OF THE HOMES WOULD BE AGE RESTRICTED.
BEYOND THAT, AGAIN, WE ARE MORE THAN HAPPY IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, THE TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN PROCESS, AS WE TALK ABOUT ALL THE OTHER ITEMS THAT ARE PART ITEMS THAT ARE PART OF LAND DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT, WHAT THAT MIX COULD BE.
BUT WHAT WE KNEW WAS IMPORTANT WAS THERE WAS AT LEAST A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MINIMUM AMOUNT THAT WOULD BE DEDICATED TO AGE RESTRICTED.
SO WE HAVE OFFERED THAT UP AS ONE OF THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS THAT A MINIMUM OF 25% WOULD BE RESTRICTED TO PERSONS 55 PLUS.
AND THEN WITH RESPECT TO THE DECLARATION, 'CAUSE I ALSO HEARD 35 FOOT MAX, WHICH IS CORRECT IN MY, IN MY SIMPLE MIND, YOU'RE SQUISHING IT DOWN AND SPREADING IT OUT.
SO WHEN YOU DO THAT, THE ORIGINAL 600 PLAN, IF I, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, IS 50% DEDICATED OPEN SPACE.
BY MY MATH, IT WOULD DROP TO 46, 40 7% ISH.
SO YOU'D LOSE 3% OPEN SPACE BASED ON WHAT YOU JUST SAID ABOUT CHANGING MIX.
THE, THE 80, THE 80, THE OPEN SPACE WOULD BE 82 ACRES THERE.
AND YOUR, YOUR, YOUR PERCENTAGES I THINK ARE, ARE, ARE, YOU KNOW, APPROXIMATELY CORRECT.
AGAIN, PART OF THIS IS GETTING INTO LAND DEVELOPMENT AND LOOKING AT IT, BUT THAT IS THE TRADE OFF.
AGAIN, PART PART OF INTRODUCING THE STACK TOWN HOMES WHEN WE CAME BACK, AND THAT WAS AT THE REQUEST OF, OF PEOPLE ON, ON BEHALF OF THE TOWNSHIP, WAS CAN YOU FIND SOME WAYS TO GET THE DENSITY IN WITHOUT EXPANDING THE FOOTPRINT? SO BY ELIMINATING THE STACK TOWN HOMES, BUT, AND LOSING THE 15 UNITS, WE DO SPREAD OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE.
YOU'RE YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT ABOUT THAT.
IT TAKES UP A COUPLE MORE ACRES OF WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE OPEN SPACE.
UM, AND AGAIN, A LOT OF WHAT PLAYS INTO ALL OF THAT IS MIX AS WELL.
BUT WE'VE COMMITTED WITHIN THE ORDINANCE ITSELF THAT WE DO HAVE THOSE MINIMUM OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS WE HAVE TO MEET.
AND THEN THE BURMAN 15 WOULD ADD IN, UH, LET, LET'S 15 THREE ACRES, ANOTHER PERCENT OR TWO BACK ON TOP.
ASSUMING IT WOULD WORK THE WAY UP AND, AND AGAIN, YEAH.
THE WAY WE, WE WOULD NOT LOOK TO PICK KIND OF, YOU KNOW, MISSING TEETH OUT OF THE PLAN.
THE IDEA WOULD BE WE WOULD FIND A SECTION WHERE THERE'S 15 UNITS, OR AGAIN, DURING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT, TENTATIVE SKETCH PROCESS, REDESIGN THE PLAN SO THAT WE COULD COME BACK WITH SOMETHING WITH THE 585 UNITS, THOSE ADDITIONAL, THE LAND FOR THOSE ADDITIONAL 15 UNITS BEING NOW INCORPORATED INTO THE LARGER OPEN SPACE.
SO SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OPEN SPACE, CAN WE GET YOU UP TO THE TABLE? OH YEAH, I APOLOGIZE.
IF THE TOWNSHIP DETERMINED THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT ANY OF THOSE TRAILS ON THE OPEN SPACE, THEN WE COULD INCORPORATE THEM WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
OBVIOUSLY FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, I THINK IT'S GREAT TO HAVE THEM COMING THROUGH THE OPEN SPACE.
BUT AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IS, DOES THE TOWNSHIP ULTIMATELY WANNA SEE, AS YOU SEE THERE, WE DID TRY TO KEEP IT CLOSE TO THE PERIMETER OF WHERE THE HOMES WOULD BE.
AND THAT WAS AGAIN, TO RESPECT THE FACT THAT FRANKLY, THAT'S A DISCUSSION THAT INVOLVES, YOU KNOW, MUCH MORE THAN JUST US.
AND, AND WE HAVE REACHED OUT TO SOME OF THE LOCAL OPEN SPACE ADVOCACY GROUPS TO, TO INITIATE A CONVERSATION OF LIKE, WHAT'S THE BEST PRACTICE FOR PLANNING THOSE KIND OF TRAILS.
SO ARE ANY OF THE, THE TRAILS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, IS ANY OF IT GONNA BE GOING
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THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT? YEAH, SO WE HAVE, IN FACT, IF YOU LOOK, UM, THE ALONG OLD STATE ROAD, SORRY, WE WOULD BE PROPOSING TO BRING THAT TRAIL ALONG THE OLD STATE ROAD FRONTAGE THANK YOU.WE'VE KIND OF INCORPORATED IT AND THEN WE'VE BROUGHT IT DOWN HERE.
WE WOULD ALSO HAVE CONNECTIONS THROUGHOUT THE, THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY.
WE WERE REALLY FOCUSED, AND AGAIN, THIS IS EXTREMELY PRELIMINARY BECAUSE WE'VE GOTTA GET, YOU KNOW, INPUT FROM A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE.
BUT THE, WE WERE VERY MUCH FOCUSED ON, IT'S VERY EASY TO GET PEOPLE FROM INSIDE THE COMMUNITY OUT TO THOSE EXTERNAL TRAILS.
OUR FOCUS WAS ON HOW DO WE CREATE A CONNECTION TO THE EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS SO THAT IT'S NOT JUST TO THE BENEFIT OF POTENTIAL FUEL FUTURE HOMEOWNERS ON THE PROPERTY.
SO IT BENEFITS THE, THE LARGER COMMUNITY.
AND THAT WAS THE IDEA BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT EITHER SOME AT GRADE CROSSINGS LIKE HERE, AND FOR ANYBODY THAT'S FAMILIAR WITH THE CHESTER VALLEY TRAIL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF HOW WE'VE ENVISIONED THIS, AGAIN AT A VERY PRELIMINARY STAGE.
BUT THE IDEA IS THAT YOU HAVE PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS WHERE IT'S SAFE FOR, FOR PEDESTRIANS ULTIMATELY COME ACROSS AND THEN ULTIMATELY DOWN, YOU KNOW, MAKE A CONNECTION, WHETHER IT'S WITHIN HERE OR DOWN HERE, CLOSE TO WHERE THE PROPOSED FUTURE REPLACEMENT BRIDGE WOULD BE.
BUT THE GOAL REALLY IS TO BE ABLE TO GET PEOPLE DOWN TO THE SCOOP OF RIVER TRAIL.
YOU MENTIONED 55 PLUS AND THEN YOU ALSO MENTIONED STARTER HOMES OR HAVING PEOPLE THAT CAN COME INTO THE DEVELOPMENT, THE TOWNSHIP AT A, AT A LOWER LEVEL.
WHAT WOULD BE THE PRICE POINTS FOR THE VARIOUS STYLES OF HOME? SO WE'VE ANTICIPATED PRICE POINTS EVERYWHERE FROM UPPER FOUR HUNDREDS, LOW 500 THOUSANDS TO, YOU KNOW, FOR THE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOMES WE'RE PROBABLY AROUND A MILLION DOLLARS.
SO THAT, THAT'S THE PRICE RANGE FROM THAT HALF A MILLION TO MILLION DOLLAR.
OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF IT'S MARKET DEPENDENT AND IF WE WERE TO MOVE FORWARD, WE'RE YEARS OUT FROM ANY CONSTRUCTION HERE.
BUT THAT'S KIND OF HOW WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE PRICING WOULD BE BASED ON TODAY.
ROB, WHAT DID YOU SAY? WE WERE STARTING IN THE UPPER SEVEN HUNDREDS, I THINK.
AND THOSE ARE LARGER, YOU KNOW, KIND OF FIRST FLOOR OWNERS, SUITE HOMES, UM, THOSE ARE ALL 30 2K WIDE THERE.
SO IT'S A LARGER PRODUCT, LARGER HOUSE.
EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE ARE DOWNSIZING, THEY STILL WANT SPACE.
AND I THINK TO ONE OF THE POINTS THAT WAS MADE EARLIER IS, YOU KNOW, WE, WE BUILD, DEVELOP, AND BUILD A LARGER AGE RESTRICTED COMMUNITIES.
THESE ARE VERY ACTIVE HOMEOWNERS.
THEY ARE NOT, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY MAY BE, SOME OF THEM MAY BE RETIRED, SOME OF 'EM MAY BE NOT, BUT GENERALLY THEY'RE STILL EXTREMELY ACTIVE IN THEIR LIFESTYLES.
AND WE'RE FINDING THAT PEOPLE ARE MAKING THAT MOVE EARLIER THAN THEY WOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, FOR CONVENIENCE, EASE OF MAINTENANCE.
UM, AND ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF 'EM MAY HAVE SECOND HOMES RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR AGE RESTRICTED 55 CARRIAGE HOMES.
THERE'S A STANDPIPE OR WATER TOWER, WHATEVER YOU WANNA CALL.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT BELONGS TO AMERICAN WATER OR BELONGS TO THE PARKHOUSE FACILITY.
IT'S ON THE FACILITIES GROUNDS.
BUT, UH, DO YOU THINK WE COULD WORK OUT A DEAL TO GET THAT REPAINTED AND PUT, WELCOMED UP IN PROVIDENCE?
YOU DON'T WANT IT IN, I'LL, I'LL FILE THAT FOR, WE, WE ARE ALWAYS IN FAVOR OF MAKING A COMMUNITY LOOK BETTER AND MAKING IT A BETTER DESTINATION FOR PEOPLE AT THAT.
I'LL FOLLOW THAT UNDER THE, UH, NOT SOLELY UP TO US.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM BOARD? YEAH, JUST MR. BERMAN, YOU SAID WHEN I WAS ASKING ABOUT OPEN SPACE, ACREAGE DEDICATION AND, AND THE CHANGE TO THE DECLARATIONS THAT YOU DISCUSSED EARLIER, YOU JUST SAID 82 CONTIGUOUS ACRES WOULD REMAIN, 'CAUSE THE TOTAL OPEN SPACE IS MORE ACREAGE THAN THAT AND IT WOULD PLAY AROUND.
BUT THE 82 CONTINUOUS PLOTS OF LAND WOULD REMAIN.
IS THAT, IS THAT RIGHT NOW STANDING RIGHT NOW THAT SKETCH, THE, THE CENTER WHERE THE FLOOD DRAIN, THAT'S THE TWO, THE 15 UNITS WHEREVER THEY ARE WILL GET ADDED TO THAT.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, THERE'S LIKE, IS IT 30%? UH, IN OUR, IN OUR AREA? I DON'T NEED, I HAVE ONE, SORRY, I'M JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS.
UNDERSTANDING IS, IS THAT WE HAVE QUITE A BIT OF OPEN SPACE.
SO IN, IN THE RESIDENTIAL, THE 82 ACRES IS SOLELY THE AREA AS, AS I POINTED OUT THAT YOU SEE KIND OF ON THE, ON THE PERIPHERY THERE'S ADDITIONAL OPEN SPACE INCORPORATED WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, WHICH YOU SEE THE LITTLE GREEN AREAS AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT IS NOT COUNTED TOWARDS THE 82 ACRES THAT YOU SHOWED.
AND AGAIN, THE 82 IS THE BEST ESTIMATE BASED ON THE CONCEPTUAL PLAN WE HAVE.
BUT THAT'S WHY WE PUT THE MINIMUMS IN THE ORDINANCE.
AND THE INTENTION IS BASICALLY EVERYTHING THAT DOESN'T FALL WITHIN THAT 585 STORM WATER IMPROVEMENTS, THE OTHER IMPROVEMENTS REQUIRED IN ORDER TO SUPPORT
[01:15:01]
IT, THAT WOULD ALL BE OFFERED FOR DEDICATION.THERE'S A TRIANGLE OFF A SECOND THAT'S NOT DEVELOPED.
IS THAT, DO YOU OWN THAT THERE, IS THAT PART OF THE YEAH.
YEAH, THAT IS PART OF THE PROPERTY WE'VE PROPOSED LEAVING IT JUST AS IS.
UM, I BELIEVE IS THAT RON CALCULATED INTO DO WE KNOW INTO THE OPEN SPACE? THAT'S WHAT I'M NOT SURE ON IF THAT IS CALCULATED AS PART OF THE 82 ACRES, BUT WE CAN FIND OUT.
BUT YES, THAT IS OWNED BY RORY.
ANYTHING ELSE? I GUESS I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.
SO YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT POTENTIALLY DOING SOME OF THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS.
UM, YEAGER AND LEWIS IS PRETTY FAR AWAY FROM THE PARK HOUSE PROPERTY, LIKE, SO WHAT, I MEAN, THIS IS ALL NICE TO HEAR, BUT LIKE WHAT GUARANTEES DO WE HAVE THAT YOU WOULD ACTUALLY HELP WITH THOSE INTERSECTIONS THAT ARE SOMEWHAT DISTANCED FROM THE PROPERTY? SO THE ONLY GUARANTEE THAT I CAN GIVE YOU IS THAT AGAIN, IT'S A PROCESS AND WE HAVE CERTAIN CRITERIA THAT WE MUST MEET FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE.
UM, THAT WILL, UM, BE VIEWED BY YOUR TOWNSHIP'S TRAFFIC ENGINEER AS WELL AS PENNDOT.
UH, THEY WILL BE THE ULTIMATE ARBITRARY OF WHAT IMPROVEMENTS ARE NECESSARY TO MEET THOSE STANDARDS.
UM, SO THE LIKELIHOOD IS THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME TWEAKS TO THE PROCESS.
THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME THINGS THAT, UH, MAY BE ADDED TO THE SCOPE.
THERE MAY BE SOME THINGS THAT ARE ULTIMATELY DELETED FROM THE SCOPE, BUT THERE ARE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF IMPROVEMENTS THAT WILL BE NECESSARY AS EVIDENCED BY OUR CURRENT RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, THAT WE WILL NEED TO PROVIDE IN ORDER TO NOT ONLY OBTAIN APPROVALS FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, BUT OBTAIN OUR PERMITS FROM PENDO.
UM, SO THEY WILL BE ANOTHER PARTY THAT WILL BE INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT, UH, THE AGREEMENT PACKAGE GOES SUFFICIENT OR NOT.
UM, OR IF THOSE AGREEMENTS NEED TO BE ADJUSTED, BUT WITHOUT SATISFYING PENDOT, WE CAN'T TAKE ACCESS TO THE STATE ROADWAY.
AND, AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE TOWNSHIP DOES HAVE AN ACT 2 0 9 ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRES US TO PAY A PER TRIP FEE.
SO THAT IS MONEY THAT UNDER YOUR EXISTING ORDINANCES WE'D BE REQUIRED TO PAY.
THAT'S THE APPROXIMATELY $900,000 THAT MATT SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER.
AND MR. HOW, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAR.
REGARDING ROAD IMPROVEMENTS, PARTICULARLY TO OLD STATE, THEY REQUIRE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS EVEN BEYOND YOUR FRONTAGE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TRIANGLE, THE INTERSECTION WAS SECOND.
THOSE IMPROVEMENTS WILL BE MADE TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE'S AVAILABLE RIGHT AWAY, WHETHER IT'S ON YOUR SIDE OR NOT.
SO, SO EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 19 FEET ON ALONG YOUR FRONTAGE, IF THE REQUIRED IMPROVEMENTS REQUIRE MORE THAN 19 FEET, YOU WILL GO AS FAR AS THE RIGHT OF WAY, PERMITS YOU TO ALONG OLD STATE OR SECOND OR YES.
QUESTION ON THE CIRCLE AND THIS, AND I BROUGHT THIS UP, I MIGHT'VE BROUGHT IT UP BEFORE.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ON COUNTY PROPERTY.
WHEN YOU GO RE-ENGINEER, THE CIRCLE GET SHIFTED, I GUESS NORTH AND WE'RE ON YOUR OWN.
SO WE DID NOT MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THE PROPOSED CIRCLE.
THAT CIRCLE IS BASED ON THE TOWNSHIP'S PRELIMINARY PLANS.
I BELIEVE THERE WAS TWO OPTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED.
I KNOW THAT THE TOWNSHIP RECEIVED SOME GRANT MONEY WITH RESPECT TO THE PRELIMINARY ENGINEERING.
UM, AND I KNOW THAT THE TOWNSHIP TRACK ENGINEERS PROGRESSING WITH THE PRELIMINARY ENGINEERING WITH RESPECT TO THE ROUNDABOUT.
BUT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS TAKE THE PLANS THAT WERE PROVIDED TO US, SUPERIMPOSE THOSE OPTIONS ON TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER WE WERE PROPOSING TO DO WOULD NOT NEGATIVELY AFFECT THE CONCEPT OF THE ROUNDABOUT.
SO THE ONE LANE BRIDGE AND JUST EAST IS PART OF THAT PROJECT? CORRECT.
SO, UH, MR. MON, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO ADD BEFORE WE CLOSE? NO.
AND, UH, IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE THIS TIME IF THE BOARD MADE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE HEARING AND THEN WE'LL PROCEED.
OH, WE CLOSE THE HEARING THEN TAKE PUBLIC.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO, I'LL ASK FOR A MOTION TO CLOSE THE HEARING.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE HEARING A SECOND.
ALRIGHT, SO NOW WE HAVE PUBLIC HEARING.
SO I ALREADY MENTIONED THE DRILL, THE NAME, ADDRESS, THREE MINUTES, GOTTA KEEP IT TO THREE GET AND A BUZZER.
NO DOUBLE DIPPING, NO TAKING SOMEONE ELSE'S TURN.
PLEASE DON'T SAY THINGS THREE, FOUR
[01:20:01]
TIMES IF SOMEONE SAID IT ONCE, WE REALLY DID HEAR IT.AND THEN PLEASE BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL.
SO WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME UP FIRST? WE CAN USE THE FRONT ROW AS AN ON DECK CIRCLE AS WELL.
UH, JOHN WESLER 180 COUNTRY RIDGE DRIVE.
YOU SPELL HIS NAME? W-E-S-L-E-R.
I'LL DO MY BEST TO GET THROUGH THIS, ADDED SOME NOTES.
SO I APOLOGIZE IF IT, UH, ISN'T AS CONCISE AS I HAD BEFORE.
BUT THIS PLAN HAS ALREADY BEEN TURNED DOWN.
BASICALLY, YOU'VE ALREADY TURNED THIS DOWN ONCE.
REALLY NOT MANY CHANGES TO IT OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT THEY'RE GONNA REMOVE THIS AGE RESTRICTION.
IN FACT, IT'S WORSE BY REMOVING THE AGE RESTRICTION, MORE CARS, MORE PEOPLE, MORE TAXING ON THE SCHOOLS.
IF THEY DIDN'T, UH, MODEL FOR THE 1200, UM, UNITS ON VALUES AND PROBABILITY, HOW WOULD THEY KNOW THAT THERE'S GONNA BE LESS TRAFFIC? 3 75 LESS TRIPS THEY SAY.
I THINK KELLY, YOU MENTIONED THAT.
UM, IT'S GONNA BE, UH, YOUR COMMENT IS PROBABLY TWO TO THREE CARS, ACTIVE PEOPLE GOING TO SCHOOL, GOING TO WORK AS IF THE 600, UM, IS US UNDERESTIMATING THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF TRIPS THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
UM, AND THE NUMBER OF KIDS I THINK IS UNDERESTIMATED.
THE COUNTRY RIDGE ITSELF, PROBABLY TWO TO THREE KIDS PER HOUSE, 234 KIDS.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY'RE GONNA GET THAT NUMBER FROM.
IT IS PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT THEY CAME UP WITH FROM SPRING FORD.
I DON'T THINK IT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE ACCURATE, BUT I'M NOT AN EXPERT.
UH, THEY ALSO SAID CONDUCTING A SURVEY TO WIDEN.
WHAT IF THEY CAN'T WIDEN, THEN WHAT? WE'RE GONNA HAVE A BOTTLENECK.
TRAFFIC'S ALREADY BAD AND NO CHANGES THAT THEY'RE GONNA MAKE IN THIS AREA IS GONNA HELP THE TRAFFIC JAM COMING IN AND OUT.
DO THEY KNOW HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET FROM THIS AREA TO GET OUTTA THE AREA TO GO DOWN TO OAKS ELEMENTARY TO COME BACK FROM WORK TO COME BACK OVER THAT BRIDGE? HAVE YOU ACTUALLY DRIVEN IN THE MORNING TO GET TO WORK? TO GET MY KIDS TO SCHOOL, TO GET TO WORK ON TIME? IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.
UM, AND YOU'RE GONNA TELL ME THAT IT'S NOT GONNA, IT'S NOT GONNA N NEGATIVELY IMPACT THAT, THAT SWAMP HUNTER, UH, WHICH IS NOT APPROVED CONDITIONAL USE.
AND THOSE THINGS STILL HAVE RESTRICTIONS BETTER BECAUSE THE LESS ACTIVE PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE THERE, UM, AND THEY REMOVE THIS AGE RESTRICTION.
SO AGAIN, IT'S LIKELY MORE CARS.
BUT IN YOUR EXTRA OPINION, UH, IF, IF IF, UH, I'LL HAVE TO CONCEDE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I GUESS YOU HAVE THE EXTRA OPINION IT'S GONNA BE, IT'S GONNA BE LESS TRAFFIC.
WHEN YOU HAVE 600 HOMES, UH, DO YOU SEE THE OTHER HOMES THAT ARE GOING UP IN THE AREA LIKE PJP? THERE'S UM, ALREADY ENOUGH HOUSES GOING UP THERE FOR 600 HOMES.
THERE'S PROBABLY, LIKE I SAID, TWO OR THREE KIDS PER HOUSE.
UM, AND THE OTHER THING YOU SAID SOMETHING YOU FOUND IN A BLOG, IS THAT A GREAT RESOURCE TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING, A BLOG? WHAT KIND OF RESEARCH ARE WE DOING HERE? UM, YOU KNOW, ANY, ANY, AND THEY SAID SOMETHING ABOUT FUTURE OWNERS IS THE PLAN TO GET THE ZONING CHANGE AND THEN TO SELL IT.
I'D LIKE TO SEE THE HOMES ALSO.
FOR ME PERSONALLY, I THINK IF YOU'RE GONNA MOVE THIS STUFF, THERE WAS NOTHING ON OLD STATE AND HANER.
AND NOW I'M GONNA HAVE THESE HOMES LOOKING IN MY BACKYARD.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THOSE HOMES MOVED OFF OF THERE.
THIS IS ABOUT PROFIT AND THEY TALKED ABOUT THE LAST TIME IT'S MORE CAPITAL INTENSIVE, SO IT'S GONNA BE HARDER FOR THEM TO BUILD WHATEVER THEY ELSE TO DO THE INSTITUTIONAL AND FILL THOSE HOUSES.
THIS IS WHAT THEY WANTED ALL ALONG.
THEY SAID THEY DON'T WANT THIS ALL ALONG, BUT THIS IS WHAT'S BEEN FROM DAY ONE, WE'VE ASKED YOU NOT TO CHANGE THIS.
UM, AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY GIVE YOU A PLAN AND DOWN THE ROAD WHEN IT DOESN'T ADD UP TO WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IT DOES NOW AND IT DOESN'T IMPACT THE WAY THEY'RE SAYING AND THERE'S MORE PEOPLE, MORE TRAFFIC IMPACT.
WHAT ARE YOU GONNA BE ABLE TO DO THEN? YOU HAVE EIGHT SECONDS.
WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO THEN? AND IS A WRITTEN DECLARATION A GUARANTEE? THANK YOU.
I WOULD ASK THAT THE COURT REPORTER KNOW THE APPLAUSE.
SORRY, WHO IS THAT? ALBERT WOLF.
CAN YOU SPELL THAT? W-O-L-F-R-A-M.
IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, ALLOW ME TO BE BLUNT.
I'D LIKE TO SEE THE BOARD VOTE NO TO THE ZONING CHANGE, JUST LIKE YOU DID IN JANUARY.
THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED.
UM, I'D LIKE TO REMIND YOU THAT ACCORDING TO THE CURRENT Z YOUR OUR CURRENT ZONING FOR THIS PROPERTY, IT ALLOWS 10% BUILDING COVERAGE AND 30 ONLY TOTAL OF 35% IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE.
SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT PLAN A VERSUS PLAN B, UM, NOT KNOWING HOW CONDITIONAL USE WILL COME OUT, THAT'S YOUR JOB.
WE HAVE 35% TOTAL IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE, 10% BUILDING COVERAGE.
I'M PRETTY SURE THAT 1203 DOES NOT FALL UNDER THAT, BUT THAT'S SET ASIDE AS FAR AS THIS ZONING CHANGE, AS FAR AS THIS ZONING CHANGE GOES.
ALSO REMEMBER THAT IT AFFECTS MORE THAN JUST THIS SINGLE PROPERTY.
UM, FROM WHAT I COULD DETERMINE, THERE'S ACTUALLY 81 OTHER PARCELS IN THIS TOWNSHIP
[01:25:01]
THAT FALL UNDER THIS ZONING, UM, TOTALING 970 ACRES.AND THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY OF THE PHARMACEUTICAL PROPERTIES BECAUSE I COULDN'T COME UP WITH THAT.
BUT I KNOW THEY FALL UNDER THIS ZONING AS WELL.
UM, NOW IF, IF I UNDERSTAND AND READ THE ZONING CHANGE CORRECTLY, I I BELIEVE IT, IT LIMITS TO, UM, PROPERTIES UNDER THE ZONING WITH AT LEAST 50 ACRES.
UM, SO THAT SAID THAT THAT COVERS APPROXIMATELY 400 ACRES THAT ARE STILL, WOULD STILL BE AVAILABLE TO THIS TYPE OF, OF IMPROVEMENT.
SO I WOULD JUST LIKE THE, THE BOARD TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.
AND THESE, THE, THE CURRENT ZONING HAS HAS BEEN IN PLACE SINCE BEFORE THE PROPERTY WAS PURCHASED.
IT WAS, IT WAS FULLY KNOWN AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE.
EVEN THEN COMMISSIONER SHAPIRO NOTED IT AT THE SALE, UM, IN HIS PUBLIC ADDRESS THAT THE 10% COVERAGE AND THE 35% IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE, HE WAS TRYING TO RE-INSURE OR REASSURE THE COMMUNITY ON WHAT COULD HAPPEN TO THIS PROPERTY.
I WOULD ASK THE COURT REPORTER TO NOTE THE APPLAUSE.
WE'LL, WE'LL HAVE A CONTINUING NOTE.
PARDON ME? I SAID WE'LL HAVE A CONTINUING NOTE ON IF THERE'S A PLAUS WE'LL BE MARKED.
I JUST WONDER IF CASES SHOULD BE ON WHAT THE COURT SEE EXACTLY.
THE COURT REPORTER WAS FACED WITH, JUST SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO REITERATE IT EVERY TIME.
IF THERE IS A PAUSE THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE NOTE IT.
TIM T NO, TIM WAS THE BASEBALL PLAYER.
I CAME HERE TONIGHT TO ENCOURAGE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO APPROVE THE ORDINANCE, WHICH WOULD AMEND THE CODE OF THE TOWNSHIP 300 ZONING ARTICLE 17 OSR TWO OPEN SPACE RESTRICTED.
DESPITE THE ETHICALLY QUESTIONABLE MANNER IN WHICH THIS PROPERTY WAS ACQUIRED, IT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THIS TOWNSHIP TO WORK WITH THE DEVELOPERS ON THE 585 UNIT COMPROMISE PLAN.
FIGHTING THIS EFFORT NO LONGER MAKES SENSE AND WILL ULTIMATELY COST THE TOWNSHIP SIGNIFICANT LEGAL FEES THAT WILL EITHER NEED TO COME AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHER BUDGET PRIORITIES OR WORSE A TAX INCREASE.
OTHER CONSEQUENCES OF CONTINUING TO FIGHT THIS INCLUDE GREATER IMPACT ON TRAFFIC MUNICIPAL SERVICES, THE SPRING FORD SCHOOL DISTRICT EMERGENCY SERVICES AND THINGS LIKE WATER AND SEWER.
AS DISCUSSED, FORMER PHILADELPHIA EAGLES COACH ANDY REED, WAS TERRIBLE AT CLOCK MANAGEMENT AND SOMETIMES IT COST HIM A VICTORY.
WE ARE OUT OF TIME AND THIS IS NOT A GAME I PLAYED IN A LOT POKER TOURNAMENTS AND I CAN RECOGNIZE A BAD BET WHEN I SEE ONE.
THIS IS A HAND THAT THE TOWNSHIP CANNOT WIN.
AGREEING TO SPLIT THE POT WITH THE 585 UNIT PLAN IS THE SMART PLAY.
A TRUE FRIEND OF PARKHOUSE SHOULD CONSIDER THIS COMPROMISE A VICTORY AND TAKE SOLACE IN HAVING MINIMIZED THE IMPACT AND NOT RISK EVERYTHING ON A BAD GAMBLE.
IT'S UH, B-E-R-K-O-W-I-C-Z AND IT'S 1 3 8 BENNINGTON ROAD.
OKAY, SO, UM, I'M NOT GONNA ARGUE 5 85 IS BETTER THAN 1203.
THAT'S, YOU KNOW, BEYOND THE QUESTION.
UM, WHAT I WOULD WANNA POINT OUT IS I'M STRUGGLING WITH WHY PEOPLE KEEP THINKING THERE'S GONNA BE LAWSUITS.
DO I UNDERSTAND THIS RIGHT NOW, AS A PREVIOUS GENTLEMAN STATED, THE, UH, PROPERTY WITH ZONES AS IT CURRENTLY IS WHEN IT WAS PURCHASED.
AND FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND THAT ALLOWS FOR TWO OPTIONS.
ONE IS INSTITUTIONAL ZONING, THE OTHER IS, IS OPEN SPACE RESIDENTIAL TOO.
LET'S LOOK AT THE INSTITUTIONAL ZONING UNDER THIS ONE.
THEY HAVE PROPOSED A PLAN 1203 UNITS SUBJECT TO CONDITIONAL HEARING.
WHILE THEY SEEM TO THINK THEY WILL GAIN APPROVAL OF THAT PLAN, IT SEEMS THAT THEY'RE TAKING A LOT OF LIBERTIES AND DEFINING WHAT A LICENSED CARE FACILITY IS.
I'M NOT AN EXPERT, BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.
NEITHER THE TOWNSHIP NOR THE BUILDER REALLY WANT THE MONSTROSITY THAT'S BEING BUILT FROM THE TOWNSHIP'S PERSPECTIVE.
THIS IS EXTREMELY HIGH DENSITY HOUSING RELATIVE TO THE SURROUNDING AREA AND WILL SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF THE PROPERTY IN THIS PART OF THE TOWNSHIP.
IT'LL PLACE A HUGE BURDEN ON OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND IT WILL HAVE A PROLONGED CONSTRUCTION TIME AND DELAYED REALIZATION OF ANY OF THE FINANCIAL BENEFITS THAT WILL COME.
[01:30:01]
FOR THE BUILDER, OR I'M SORRY FOR ROY, FOR ALL BANKS, THIS WILL BE A LONGER TERM PROJECT LIKELY DONE IN PHASES THAT WILL EXTEND THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT.AND ACCORDING TO THE NUMBERS THEY PRESENTED PREVIOUSLY AND AGAINST TONIGHT, 25%, YOU KNOW, REPRESENTS THE, UH, AGE RESTRICTED POPULATION, RIGHT? THAT'S 150 HOMES RIGHT NOW.
HOW LONG IS IT GONNA TAKE TO FILL 1200 UNITS OVER, YOU KNOW, 62? I MEAN, THIS IS GONNA BE, I QUESTION IF IT'S EVER GONNA BE FILLED TO BE, QUITE HONESTLY, GIVEN 150 IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW, IT'S ALMOST NINE TIMES, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
SO IT'S, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AND MY BELIEF IS THIS MONSTROSITY IS BEING PROPOSED STILL NOT APPROVED, PROPOSED TO BASICALLY STRONG ARM THE TOWNSHIP INTO A ZONING AMENDMENT.
SO MY UNDERSTANDING, AGAIN, OPEN SPACE RESIDENTIAL ZONING CURRENTLY APPLIES TO THIS UNDER THE CURRENT ZONING.
UM, THEY COULD PROCEED WITH BUILDING COMMUNITY THAT WOULD BE RELATIVELY CONSISTENT WITH THE SURROUNDING AREA AND WOULD STILL HAVE AT LEAST 50% OPEN SPACE.
UNFORTUNATELY FOR MR. BERMAN AND ROY FOR HOLDING THIS DOESN'T MAKE THEM RICH ENOUGH.
UM, THIS IS ONLY IN THE LANDOWNER'S FAVOR.
UM, TO POINT OUT A COUPLE THINGS, WE'RE STILL, THE PROPOSED CHANGES ARE TAKING US FROM 1.25 HOUSES PER ACRE TO FIVE AND GRANTED RUNNING.
I, I, I APPRECIATE THE REDUCTION TO THREE.
THAT'S STILL A 300% INCREASE AND I'D LIKE TO SEE IT IN, I DON'T KNOW HOW BINDING THESE COVENANTS ARE.
I'D RATHER SEE THE AMENDMENT REVISED AND EVERYTHING PUT INTO THERE.
UM, WE HAD THAT HEIGHT RESTRICTION THAT WAS TAKEN AWAY OR, YOU KNOW, REDUCED.
UM, BUT THE OPEN SPACE IS BEING REDUCED FROM 50% IN THE PRE CURRENT ZONING TO 25%.
SO AGAIN, I MEAN THE THREE THINGS THAT CONCERN ME, ONE'S COVERED NOW.
UM, THE OTHER TWO, I THINK WE STILL GOT A WAYS TO GO.
UM, SO FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS STILL CREATING A SPOT ZONING SITUATION SPECIFICALLY IN THE LANDOWNER'S FAVOR THAT'S INCONSISTENT WITH THE RESIDE RESIDENCE RESIDENTIAL OPEN SPACE THROUGHOUT THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, SO MY REQUEST IS AS REPRESENTING ME.
PLEASE DO NOT APPROVE THIS AS WRITTEN.
S-U-P-E-L-E ONE 50 MILL DRIVE.
UH, I CAME HERE, I'M PREPARED 'CAUSE I WASN'T HAVE GOING TO COME HERE TONIGHT.
SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS IT WOULD BE ONE STUDENT, ONE STUDENT AGED CHILD FOR EVERY THREE UNITS.
NOW IF YOU TAKE OUT THE OVER 55, IT COMES OUT TO ONE EVERY TWO.
OUR NEIGHBORHOOD HAS BEEN RECENTLY, IT'S A 20-YEAR-OLD NEIGHBORHOOD AND ALL THE UNITS HAVE SOLD IN THE LAST SAY THREE YEARS HAVE HAD AT LEAST TWO SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN IN THERE.
SO RIGHT NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PROPOSING SOMETHING IN THAT PRICE, PRICE RANGE.
IT'S ACTUALLY BELOW IF HE'S TALKING FOUR OR 500.
SO THE ODDS OF YOU ONLY HAVING ONE SCHOOL AGE CHILD IN THERE VERY LOW.
AND IF YOU DOUBLE IT TO JUST TWO, THAT'S ONE PER HOUSEHOLD THAT DOUBLES THE AMOUNT OF MONEY AND ALL THE INCOME THAT YOU SHOWED IN THERE DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.
IT'S THE SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT COMES OUT NEGATIVE.
SO I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
UH, THE OTHER THING I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IS, IT'S NICE THAT YOU DID THE, UH, TRAFFIC STUDIES, BUT HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE TRAFFIC STUDIES GOING ACROSS THE SCHULL RIVER? I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ANYBODY HERE, BUT I HAVE TO TRAVEL ACROSS THAT SCHULL RIVER EVERY DAY TO GET TO WORK OR JUST TO GO HOME PHOENIX OR ANYWHERE ELSE.
I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYBODY ADDRESS HOW YOU'RE GOING TO HANDLE THAT GETTING IN AND OUT OF OUR TOWNSHIP.
I MEAN, THE TOWNSHIP IS PRETTY LIMITED AND THE DIFFERENT WAYS YOU CAN GET IN OUT SECOND AVENUE GETS CROWDED WHEN YOU GET UP TO OUR DOORS FOR IT.
EGYPT ROAD IS NOT TOO BAD BECAUSE YOU HAVE 4 22 OFFSETTING ONE 13 CAN BE A NIGHTMARE AT CERTAIN TIMES OF THE DAY.
SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT FOR THAT.
SO I'M KIND OF REALLY DISAPPOINTED IN SOME OF THAT AS WELL AS THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IT'S GOING TO MEET THE TRAFFIC NEEDS, BUT WHAT'S THAT GOING TO DO TO OUR TIME SITTING IN TRAFFIC? IS IT GOING TO INCREASE AT 10%, 20%, 50% BECAUSE OF THESE? AND THEN FOR MY LAST COMMENT IS IF YOU'RE BRINGING IN THESE ADULTS WHO ARE A LOT MORE ACTIVE NOWADAYS AT OVER 55, I DON'T SEE HOW THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOWER TRIP RATE THAN A YOUNGER COUPLE BECAUSE A LOT OF THE ACTIVE ADULTS I KNOW THEY'RE GOING OUT THREE, FOUR TIMES A DAY.
THEY'RE GOING GROCERY SHOPPING, THEY'RE GOING TO FITNESS IN THE MORNING, THEY'RE GOING TO SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE AFTERNOON, THEY'RE GOING TO DINNER AT NIGHT.
THEY'RE MORE ACTIVE THAN PEOPLE WITH THE KIDS.
ALTHOUGH NOWADAYS WITH THE CHILDREN, YOU'RE GOING BACK AND FORTH TO SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS.
YOU'RE GOING TO THIS SOCCER, TO THAT SOCCER GOING UP TO A BASEBALL GAME AND GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE.
HAVE ALL THAT BEEN, YOU KNOW, ACCOUNTED FOR.
'CAUSE 2000 TRIPS A DAY FOR 600 HOMES DOES NOT SEEM ANYWHERE NEAR WHERE IT SHOULD BE.
[01:35:04]
TO TAKE A MOMENT IF I CAN, TO RESPOND BECAUSE I KNOW THIS HAS COME UP SEVERAL TIMES AND, AND THE, THE COMMENTARY ON HOW WE ARRIVED WITH THE NUMBER OF SCHOOL AGE CHAUVIN, AND AGAIN, WE WERE SPECIFICALLY ASKED, WE INITIALLY CAME IN WITH, UH, CALCULATIONS BASED ON MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION.WE WOULD'VE SAID, WELL, HEY, WHAT HAPPENS IN OTHER PARTS OF MONTGOMERY COUNTY DOESN'T NECESSARILY REFLECT SPRING COURT AREA SCHOOL DISTRICT.
SO THE NUMBERS THAT WE USED ARE TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM SPRING COURT AREA SCHOOL DISTRICT.
THOSE WERE INDEPENDENTLY GENERATED BY A REPORT THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT PREPARED OR COMMISSIONED AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE FOR THEIR OWN USE IN 2022.
WE'RE SIMPLY TRYING TO USE THE BEST INFORMATION THAT'S AVAILABLE.
AND WHILE I UNDERSTAND THAT, PEOPLE MAY NOT AGREE WITH THAT, AND ANECDOTALLY YOU MAY LOOK AND SAY, WELL HEY, THERE'S TWO TO THREE KIDS IN EACH HOME IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
THE ONLY THING I WOULD POINT OUT IS, AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE BEEN ASKED FOR IS WHY AREN'T THERE MORE SINGLES? WELL, GENERALLY WE'RE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES EQUATES TO MORE SCHOOL CHILDREN, SO YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.
THE TYPE OF HOUSING ALSO PLAYS IN A NUMBER OF SCHOOL CHILDREN, BUT WE'VE PROVIDED THE BEST DATA POINTS WE CAN TO COME DIRECTLY FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND FROM THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OVER THE LAST 15, 20 YEARS.
SO TO THAT EXTENT, YOU MAY NOT AGREE WITH THEM, BUT ULTIMATELY THAT, THAT'S THE BEST INFORMATION THAT'S AVAILABLE OUT THERE.
IT'S COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE PEOPLE WHO ULTIMATELY HAVE TO OPERATE THIS CASE.
JUST, JUST FOR FUTURE, IF THERE'S ANYTHING YOU NEED TO RESPOND TO, I WOULD JUST, WE ASK YOU TO WAIT FOR PERMISSION OF THE CHAIR JUST SO WE CAN KEEP THE APOLOGIES.
I DON'T LIKE THE THIRD PLAN, BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT.
ACTUALLY, THE POINT, IF I WAS IN YOUR SHOES, I WOULD BE TENDED TO VOTE.
YES, I WOULD ACCEPT BECAUSE THEY'VE SHOWN A WILLINGNESS TO COMPROMISE BECAUSE THEY'VE SAID THEY'LL WORK WITH YOU TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS AS THE PLANNING DEVELOPMENT IS FORWARD.
BECAUSE I SAID I DON'T LIKE IT, I'D RATHER STATE EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS.
BUT YOU HAVE TO BE A REALIST WHEN YOU'RE IN NEGOTIATIONS.
IF YOU'RE BOTH HAPPY AT THE END, I'D BE SURPRISED.
YOU'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO EAT SOMETHING AND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO MAKE THE BEST POSSIBLE DEAL YOU COULD MAKE.
COULD YOU SPELL YOUR LAST NAME FOR THE, I DON'T THINK HE HEARD THAT CORRECTLY.
THE RECORDER IS THE ONLY INNOCENT MAN HERE TONIGHT, SO PLEASE COOPERATE.
K-A-J-A-K-I LIVE AT 1 0 4 BENNINGTON ROAD DIRECTLY ACROSS THE ENTRANCE AND EXIT ON OLD STATE ROAD.
THERE'LL BE EXPENSIVE HEADLIGHTS SHINING INTO MY HOME AND I'M NOT REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT.
THAT'S WHY I JUST LIKE TO REMIND ALL THE SUPERVISORS, THE MAJORITY OF YOU RAN ON THE DIRECTION OF NO ZONING CHANGES.
WHY ARE WE MAKING A ZONING CHANGE? NOW? THE MAJORITY OF YOU WERE ELECTED FOR THAT SOLE PURPOSE OF NO ZONING CHANGES.
YOU THAT CUTE LITTLE TRIANGLE ON DR.
YOU GUYS STATED THAT THERE'S NO INTENTION TO UTILIZE THAT PROPERTY.
SO I'D LIKE TO FORMALLY REQUEST THAT YOU SELL THAT PROPERTY TO ME TONIGHT.
MY NAME IS MIKE WASHBURN, UH, W-A-S-H-B-U-R-N.
I LIVE AT 180 5 COUNTRY RIDGE DRIVE.
UM, MOVED HERE ABOUT NINE YEARS AGO, UH, FROM NORTH CAROLINA, MAYBE TO PROVIDE A PERSPECTIVE OF A SIMILAR COMMUNITY IN THE TRIANGLE AREA THERE.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE LIVED IN THAT AREA, UM, FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND THE AMOUNT OF DEVELOPMENT THAT CONTINUED TO EXPAND AROUND THAT AREA WAS BASICALLY EXACTLY LIKE WHERE, WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE.
UM, WE HAD VERY YOUNG KIDS AT THE TIME.
THE AMOUNT OF OPEN LAND WAS, WAS GREAT WHEN WE FIRST MOVED THERE, BUT THEN MULTIPLE DEVELOPMENTS KEPT MOVING IN AND THAT REALLY TOOK AWAY FROM THE ABILITY TO USE THAT LAND FROM OUTDOOR SPACE.
THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC, WHICH I KNOW HAS BEEN COVERED MANY TIMES, THE AMOUNT OF OVERCROWDING SCHOOLS WAS REALLY, WAS REALLY A BIG IMPACT.
THIS PART OF THE REASON WE MOVED
[01:40:01]
HERE ACTUALLY NINE YEARS AGO, AND SPECIFICALLY IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE WE ARE IN COUNTRY RIDGE RIGHT NEXT TO THIS BIG OPEN LAND, WE REMEMBER DRIVING BY, WOW, THIS IS GREAT.I CAN SEE OUR KIDS GROWING UP HERE HAVING, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THE FLEXIBILITY TO SEE WILDLIFE AND ALL THOSE THINGS.
SO I THINK THAT'S A BIG DISAPPOINTMENT TO SEE THIS KIND OF BEING PROPOSED.
NOW THAT THAT'S THE CASE, I THINK IN PARTICULAR THE OLD STATE AND HAFNER ROAD ASPECT, MY KIDS WAIT AT THE BUS STOP RIGHT THERE.
MY MY WIFE OR MYSELF ARE THERE WAITING WITH THEM, UM, TO SEE POTENTIAL FOR HOMES GOING UP RIGHT THERE.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE A SAFETY CONCERN AS WELL WITH THE AMOUNT OF CONSTRUCTION, MY KIDS WAITING THERE, YOU KNOW, AT THE BUS STOP.
SO I KNOW THERE'S A PROPOSAL FOR THIS 15, YOU KNOW, HOME LAND, WHETHER THAT COULD BE PART OF REMOVING THAT FROM THE PLAN.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE A REASONABLE APPROACH TO CONSIDER IF THIS REALISTICALLY WOULD GO FORWARD, EVEN THOUGH I'M OPPOSED TO IT.
UM, I THINK THE OTHER QUESTION MAYBE I HAVE IN CLOSING IS HAS THERE BEEN ANY ENVIRONMENTAL SURVEY FROM A WILDLIFE PERSPECTIVE? AGAIN, WE'VE WATCHED AND SIT AT THE BUS STOP, WE'VE SEEN NUMEROUS TYPES OF, YOU KNOW, BIRDS, BALD EAGLES, INCLUDING AMONGST OTHER THINGS.
SO HAS THAT BEEN ASSESSED, HAS THAT BEEN, YOU KNOW, STUDIED IN PARTICULAR THAT PART OF THE PROPERTY AND WHAT ARE WE DISRUPTING FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE AS WELL? SO THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING THAT AND HOPEFULLY WE VOTE NOTE UNDER ITS OWN.
MARLENE LASKA, UM, 1142 EGYPT ROAD.
UH, BASICALLY THE MESSAGE IS DON'T APPROVE.
THEY, THEY, UH, CHANGE TO THE ORDINANCE.
UM, WHAT I QUESTION IS WHETHER I ASKED FOR A COPY OF THE 1203 PLAN AND THE LATEST WAS IN 2022.
SO MY QUESTION IS WHETHER IF WE HAD GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF TIME AND ENERGY TO THE 1203 PLAN THAT WE ARE GIVING TO THE ORDINANCE CHANGE, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT COULD WE, WHAT COULD WE HAVE DONE DURING THAT TIME? I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S OVER FOUR YEARS AGO OR, OR OVER TWO YEARS AGO.
UM, SO, AND AS A COMMUNITY, WE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWING THE DEVELOPER TO DICTATE TO US WHAT OUR COMMUNITY IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.
UM, WE, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S OUR COMMUNITY.
THEY ARE GOING TO LEAVE AND ONCE THEY LEAVE, THAT'S IT.
WE ARE STRADDLED NOW WITH MAINTAINING THE DEVELOPMENT.
SO, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE WE CHANGING ORDINANCES IS FOR, FOR THE DEVELOPER BASICALLY IS WHAT WE'RE DOING.
AND AGAIN, WE SHOULD NOT, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD GIVE THE TIME AND ENERGY TO THE 1203 THAT WE GAVE THAT, THAT WE ARE GIVING TO THIS, UM, PLAN RIGHT NOW.
AND, AND WHO KNOWS WHAT, WHAT COULD POSSIBLY COME OF THAT.
YOU SPELL YOUR FULL NAME PLEASE.
UH, K-I-R-S-T-E-N SMITH, S-M-I-T-H.
UM, I DID LIVE AT 7 0 2 FORT PROVIDENCE ROAD.
I'VE LIVED THERE MY WHOLE LIFE FOR 43 YEARS.
I'M NOW AT 7 0 8 FORT PROVIDENCE ROAD, WHICH IS THE HOUSE OF YOUR WEAPON BECAUSE 7 0 2, UM, WAS TAKEN BY IDA A FEW YEARS AGO.
UM, WE, I, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE AND I HEARD, I THINK SOME TALK ABOUT A WATERSHED FOR THIS COMING DEVELOPMENT THAT MAY COME UP.
AND YOU SAID YOU'D GO TO WATERSHED AND YOU'D HAVE YEARLY MAINTENANCE ON IT.
[01:45:01]
UM, BUT I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW THE YEARLY MAINTENANCE IS GONNA WORK OUT BECAUSE AS FAR AS GOOGLE RIVER, YOU HAD THE GAUGES THAT WEREN'T WORKING.UM, THE LOCK, EVERYTHING WAS NOT WORKING.
AND THEN YOU TOLD ME AFTERWARDS, WELL IT'S FIXED.
THAT DOESN'T GIVE ME BACK MY HOUSE.
THAT DOESN'T GET MY 80-YEAR-OLD PARENTS WHO LIVED THERE 50 YEARS BACK THEIR HOME OR THE LIKE 300 NEIGHBORS THEY HAD THAT WERE FORCED TO MOVE.
AND THE ANSWER THAT I WAS GIVEN BY EVERYBODY AT THE TOWNSHIP WAS ALMOST EVERYBODY WAS, WELL, YOU CAN TAKE THE BUYOUT THAT NO ONE WANTED TO DO THAT.
WE PAID TAXES, WE PAID INSURANCE, FLOOD INSURANCE IN THE HOPES OF YOU GUYS KEEPING UP EVERYTHING, THE LOCK HOUSE, THE GAUGES, EVERYTHING LIKE THAT.
IF YOU CAN'T EVEN KEEP UP WITH THE CITIZENS THAT ARE LIKE HERE NOW AND PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE NOW, HOW ARE YOU GONNA KEEP UP WITH HOWEVER MORE PEOPLE IN HOUSING? ALSO, ABOUT THREE WEEKS AGO THERE WAS AN ACCIDENT ON 4 22.
THEY HAD LIKE ONE EXIT, ONE MILE BLACKED OFF FOR ABOUT FOUR HOURS, FIVE OR SIX HOURS AFTERWARDS WHEN IT WAS OPEN, STILL FROM 29 TO ONE 13 THERE WAS TRAFFIC BACK UP FOR 20 MINUTES.
I SAT OUTSIDE OF THE TOWNSHIP BUILDING FOR ABOUT 15 MINUTES JUST WAITING TO GET FROM 29 TO ONE 13.
THAT'S HOW MUCH TRAFFIC THERE IS.
LIKE, THERE IS JUST NOT, IT'S NOT REALLY RELATABLE.
YOU CAN'T REALLY GET AROUND AND I, I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU THINK THE WATER'S GONNA GO.
IF YOU HAVE EVERYTHING, THERE'S NOTHING TO SATURATE IT.
IF YOU HAVE BLACKTOP AND YOU HAVE HOUSES OR ANYTHING, WHERE'S THE WATER GONNA GO? AND LIKE THE OTHER GENTLEMAN SAID, THERE IS AN EAGLE THAT IS RIGHT THERE ALONG THE RIVER.
THERE IS AN EAGLES THAT'S RIGHT THERE.
THERE'S JUST LIKE A LOT OF THINGS.
I THINK IT WAS ALSO SAID THAT THERE'S 4.6% LEFT BEFORE WE'RE AT A HUNDRED PERCENT DEVELOPMENT.
WHY WOULDN'T YOU LEAVE THAT FOR SOMETHING LIKE REALLY IMPORTANT OTHER THAN SOMETHING THAT IS JUST BUILDING DENSE HOUSING? I DON'T SEE WHAT'S WRONG WITH HAVING A NURSING HOME THAT HELPS PEOPLE AND LIKE A WILDLIFE RESCUE THAT'S THERE NOW AND YOU KNOW, A PLACE, ONE OF THE ONLY FEW LIKE AREAS THAT'S STILL OPEN PARKED THAT PEOPLE CAN GO DOWN AND SEE IT AND ENJOY IT.
THERE'S JUST OBVIOUSLY NO ONE HERE WANTS THAT.
DO YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS AND ALSO MAKE A COMMENT? CHAIRMAN COMMENTS CHAIRWOMAN
THE QUESTION THAT I HAD, AND I APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION OF NO MORE STACKED TOWNHOUSES.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHERE THERE WOULD BE NO MORE STACKED TOWNHOUSES BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY EQUATES TO 76 MORE HOMES, WHICH WOULD BE TOWN HOMES.
SO THE SKETCH WE SAW WOULD OBVIOUSLY CHANGE, I'M ASSUMING BECAUSE WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT HOMES ON TOP OF HOMES.
SO THAT WOULD BE A, A QUESTION AGAIN, I THINK MR. JAGER WAS REFERENCING TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE NUMBERS AND, AND I APPRECIATE THAT, UM, BECAUSE IT DOES LOOK LIKE THERE WOULD BE 26 ADDITIONAL FRONT AND 50 ADDITIONAL REAR ACCESS HOMES.
UM, THE REFERENCE TO THE TRAFFIC STUDY, UM, MATT, YOU HAD REFERENCED AT A PREVIOUS MEETING THAT THERE COULD BE POTENTIALLY UPWARDS OF 4,000 TRIPS PER DAY.
AND WITH THAT NUMBER THAT YOU REFERENCED THIS EVENING, IT DOES APPEAR TO BE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE 4,000 WAS OR I MUST MISUNDERSTAND CLEARLY.
SO WHILE I'M NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE ANY QUESTIONS TO THE FOLKS HERE, I DO HAVE A COMMENT TO OUR BOARD AND, UM, YOU, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ARE OUR NEIGHBORS.
UM, YOU HAPPEN TO BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO, UH, BE ELECTED OFFICIALS OF THIS COMMUNITY.
YOU MUST DEC DECIDE ON THIS PROPOSED AMENDMENT.
UH, YOU REPRESENT OVER 24,000 CITIZENS IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
UM, MAYBE YOUR NEIGHBORS HAVE SUPPORTED YOU IN THE CAMPAIGN FOR YOU, UM, BELIEVING YOUR WORDS AND YOUR CONVICTIONS AND YOUR INTENTIONS AND WHAT YOU ORIGINALLY STATED, WHICH WAS
[01:50:01]
NO ZONING CHANGE.I TRULY DO FEEL FOR YOU AND THE POSITION THAT YOU'RE IN RIGHT NOW.
UM, I THINK WE, IF WE WOULD'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS AT LEAST SIX MONTHS AGO, WE WOULD BE IN A MUCH DIFFERENT PLACE TODAY, BUT WE'RE NOT.
SO I THINK THAT WE ARE HERE WITH AN UNDERSTANDING THAT THE AMENDMENT, AS IT'S WRITTEN TONIGHT, DOES NOT REFLECT THEIR INTENTIONS.
AND WORDS MEAN A LOT IN THE WORK THAT I DO.
I QUESTION WHY CAN'T WE NOT AT LEAST MAKE A MOTION TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY STATEMENT THAT HAS GONE ON RECORD TONIGHT WITH THE INTENTIONS GOES ON RECORD AND GOES INTO AN AMENDMENT BECAUSE THE AMENDMENT SAYS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEIR WORDS ARE SAYING.
DOES THE CHAIR WANT THE APPLICANT TO CLARIFY ANYTHING OR YOU, OR IS THE BOARD SATISFIED? DID YOU WANT TO ANSWER SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS? UH, YEAH, I'D BE HAPPY TO AND I APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS MS. BRIGHT.
UM, THE, THE FIRST COMMENT, SO THE, THE SKETCH PLAN THAT YOU SEE UP THERE IS REVISED TO REMOVE THE STACKED TOWN HOMES.
SO IT IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT AND PARTICULARLY THE AREAS WHERE IT'S DIFFERENT ARE IN THAT CENTRAL AREA THERE.
SO THOSE ARE NOW THE REAR LOADED TOWN HOMES.
AND THEN WE'VE CHANGED THE KIND OF CONFIGURATION IN THIS PART OF THE PROPERTY.
AND TO MR. YEAGER'S COMMENT IN QUESTION EARLIER, THAT IS WHERE THE RESULTING CHANGE IN THE OVERALL, UH, AREA OFFERED UP FOR OPEN SPACE HAS CHANGED SLIGHTLY BECAUSE OF THAT.
SO THIS, AND AGAIN, ADMITTEDLY PURELY AT A CONCEPTUAL PHASE STILL, BUT THIS CONCEPT DOES CONTEMPLATE 600 UNITS WITHOUT ANY STACK TOWN HOMES ON IT.
WHAT IT DOES NOT CONTEMPLATE IS THE ADDITIONAL 15 UNITS THAT ORDERS FOR HOLDINGS HAS OFFERED UP TO, TO GIVE UP FROM THE PROPERTY.
UM, TO YOUR SECOND POINT, I AGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY.
THAT'S WHY WE'VE COMMITTED INWARDS IN THE DECLARATION OF COVENANT THAT WE'VE PROVIDED TO THOSE LIMITATIONS, ALL OF WHICH I STATED HERE TONIGHT.
SO WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, TRIED TO PUT OUR, OUR COMMITMENT INWARDS AND OFFERED UP A BINDING DECLARATION THAT WE, WE'VE OFFERED TO THE TOWNSHIP AND THE SOLICITOR THAT WOULD BIND US TO DO THAT GOING FORWARD IN THE FUTURE.
I WANT TO JUST CONFIRM, UH, GREG WITH YOU, THIS DECLARATION IS A LEGALLY BINDING DOCUMENT.
THE, THE DECLARATION THAT THE APPLICANT HAS OFFERED IS, IS SOMETHING THAT'S DONE VOLUNTARILY BY THE, THE APPLICANT, UH, AS A COMMITMENT THAT THEY ARE BINDING THEMSELVES, UM, TO THE REPRESENTATIONS THAT THEY'RE MAKING IN THAT DOCUMENT.
UH, THEY WILL RECORD THAT DECLARATION AND THEN IT IS, IT IS ENFORCEABLE, UH, AND WOULD RUN WITH THE LAND FOR, UM, ANY, THE CURRENT PROPERTY OWNERS OR IF THEY WERE TO CONVEY IT TO, UH, A FUTURE PROPERTY OWNER, IT WOULD, IT WOULD STILL BE ENFORCEABLE.
WELL, AS I SAID, IT'S SOMETHING THEY, AS, AS THEY'VE MADE THOSE REPRESENTATIONS, IT'S SOMETHING THEY'VE OFFERED, UM, THAT IS NOT RELATED TO THE ORDINANCE, BUT RUNS PARALLEL AND RESTRICTS THEIR, THEY HAVE SELF RESTRICTED, THEIR RIGHTS TO DEVELOPMENT.
OKAY, ANYBODY ELSE? MARK SGIS.
S-E-R-G-A-S TWO 14 PER AVENUE OAKS.
AND IS THAT WITH A C OR K? IT'S WITH A K, ALTHOUGH I GET THAT A LOT.
UH, THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.
UM, AND I TOO RECOGNIZE IT'S A TOUGH JOB.
I THINK I CAME AND MADE COMMENT AT MY FIRST BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING IN 1992 WHEN IT TOOK ME FIVE MINUTES TO GET FROM OAKS TO HEAR.
THANK GOD I WAS AT SIX INSTEAD OF A LITTLE BIT EARLIER.
THERE IS EXISTING ZONING ON THIS PROPERTY.
I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY'RE TAKING YOUR TIME TO COME BACK WITH 12.
HOW ABOUT SIX? HOW ABOUT I, I'M JUST NOT SURE WHY THE BOARD AND THE TOWNSHIP'S TIME IS BEING TAKEN UP.
THIS WHEN YOU HAVE EXISTING ZONING THAT YOU CAN SUPPORT AND THAT YOU PLEDGE TO SUPPORT WHEN YOU GOT INTO OFFICE.
[01:55:06]
BILL.UM, SO, UH, YEAH, THANK YOU GUYS, UH, FOR YOUR CONTINUED, UH, STRUGGLE WITH THIS, UH, THING THAT WE'RE ALL STRUGGLING WITH.
UM, AS YOU MAY KNOW, UH, A GROUP OF FIVE PARKHOUSE FRIENDS MET WITH TWO REPRESENTATIVES OF THE BUILDERS ON WEDNESDAY, MAY 22ND.
AND THE PURPOSE OF THIS MEETING WAS TO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF OUR MUTUAL GOALS.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN SO MANY PLANS BEING THROWN AROUND OVER THESE COUPLE OF YEARS AND, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DON'T KNOW WHO WANTS TO DO WHAT.
SO THE PURPOSE WAS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WANT AND HEAR WHAT OUR CONCERNS ARE SURROUNDING THE PROPERTY.
UH, THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION OF NEGOTIATIONS OR COMPROMISE AT THAT TIME, BUT RATHER JUST SOME CLARITY OF GOALS.
UM, I AGREE WITH MR. SATANI THAT THIS IS BE THE BEGINNING OF A PROCESS.
UH, NB HAS BEEN A PART OF THIS PROCESS FOR LESS THAN A YEAR, AND THE PARKHOUSE FRIENDS HAVE NOT BEEN INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN A DIALOGUE WITH ANY PARTICIPANTS OF THIS PROCESS UNTIL THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR.
OTHER THAN THE OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC COMMENT AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND SUPERVISOR'S MEETINGS, PERHAPS WITH MORE TIME, IF, IF THE DEVELOPER'S WILLING TO PUSH BACK THAT CONDITIONAL USE HEARINGS, MAYBE THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OF A COMPROMISE THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO ALL PARTIES.
HOWEVER, I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT THIS CURRENT APPLICATION BEFORE YOU IS DENIED TONIGHT FOR SOME OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS.
UH, THE CURRENT INSTITUTIONAL ZONING REQUIRES 50% OPEN SPACE.
THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE REQUIRES 25% OPEN SPACE.
THE DEVELOPER HAS A SCHEME TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL OPEN SPACE AND HAS TALKED ABOUT AN IRON CLADDING AGREEMENT TO ENSURE ADDITIONAL LANDS FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
HOWEVER, IF THE ZONING ALLOWS FOR FIVE UNITS PER GROSS ACRE AND THE DEVELOPER SCHEME FAILS, THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE WOULD BE LAW ON THE BASIS OF AN ARGUMENT.
I WOULD ALSO HOPE THAT THE TOWNSHIP WOULD NOT BE A PARTY TO THIS DECEPTIVE AND CONVOLUTED TYPE OF A DEAL.
UM, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE LEGALITY OF, UH, UH, THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANT YOU SAID AT BRUNS WITH THE LAND.
WHO WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMOVE THAT YEARS DOWN THE ROAD? I DON'T KNOW.
MAYBE YOU CAN ANSWER THAT AFTERWARDS.
UM, THE BIGGEST ARGUMENT AGAINST ALLOWING THE ZONING CHANGE, UH, TO ME IS THE, THE LACK OF AGE RESTRICTION.
UH, THE INSTITUTIONAL ZONING IS FOR A RESIDENTIAL CARE FACILITY FOR SENIOR CITIZENS.
THE PROPOSED ZONING CHANGE ALLOWS FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE HOMES TO BE UN AGE RESTRICTED.
I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF DISAGREEMENT IN THE DISCUSSION AROUND SCHOOLS CAPACITY TO ABSORB MORE STUDENTS AND HOW MANY STUDENTS THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT MIGHT PRODUCE THIS STUDY.
HI, DIANA KISCH, 2 65 OLD STATE ROAD.
CAN YOU SPELL THIS NAME? K-I-R-S-C-H.
UM, JUST A COUPLE OF NOTES THAT, THAT SOME OF THE NUMBERS SEEM A LITTLE DISINGENUOUS TO ME.
UM, AS FAR AS THE COST OF EMPLOYING MORE POLICE AND FIRE PERSONNEL TS UM, YOU GAVE THE FIRST YEAR COST.
YOU DIDN'T MENTION THEY'RE NOT GONNA GET LAID OFF AFTER A YEAR, SO THAT'S GONNA BE AN ONGOING COST THAT DOESN'T JUST GO AWAY.
AS FAR AS THE SCHOOL DISTRICT INFORMATION THAT'S BEEN GATHERED, I MEAN, AS A PARENT AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, I CAN TELL YOU, NO OFFENSE, BUT THEY CAN'T EVEN KEEP THEIR OWN BUDGET AND EXPENSES UNDER CONTROL THERE.
I'D BE REALLY LEERY ABOUT INFORMATION YOU'RE GETTING FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
UM, ALSO JUST LAST THING, AND THIS IS JUST NO OFFENSE TO THE, TO THE BUILDER AND THE OWNER.
UM, BUT IT'S NOT THE TOWNSHIP'S JOB OR RESPONSIBILITY OR THE RESIDENCE HERE TO HELP THE OWNER MAKE A PROFIT ON THIS PROPERTY.
OKAY? THEY BOUGHT THE PROP, THE PROPERTY AS IT WAS, AND THAT WAS KNOWN AT THE TIME.
SO I THINK OVER TIME THERE'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF THIS IDEA THAT WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, TO, TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.
BUT THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT THE TOWNSHIP'S RESPONSIBILITY.
HI, MARK CONNELLEY, TWO NINE MONTGOMERY AVENUE OAKS
[02:00:02]
SAY, I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN OPEN SPACE ADVOCACY FOR ALMOST 40 YEARS.A LOT OF IT IN CHESTER COUNTY, BUT I HAVE TWO QUICK REFERENCES.
I DO HAVE A PROPERTY IN CHARLESTOWN TOWNSHIP.
I'VE BEEN VERY ACTIVE OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS IN PHOENIXVILLE.
AND I HAVE TO SAY THE BIGGEST DISTINCTION AND THE THING THAT I WANT TO WARN SUPERVISORS OF IS BEING TRANSACTIONAL.
THIS IS LIKE BEING TRANSACTIONAL WITH YOUR PARENT, WITH YOUR KIDS.
YOU ARE NOT HERE TO BE TRANSACTIONAL WITH THESE APPLICANTS.
YOU ARE HERE TO MAKE THE ZONING MEAN SOMETHING.
SO ZONING IS A VISION OF HOW A COMMUNITY WORKS, HOW IT LOOKS, AND WHAT THE VALUE IS.
AND THE QUESTION IS, IS THERE A VALUE FOR OPEN SPACE? IS THERE A VALUE FOR CONTINUITY IN THIS ZONING REGION OF THIS TOWNSHIP? NOW, I MENTIONED THAT IT'S A INDICATION OF A COMMUNITY'S VALUES.
VALUES HAVE TO COST SOMETHING.
IF YOU HAVE OPEN SPACE VALUES AND YOU WANT TO EXPRESS THEM, YOU WANT TO HOLD 'EM, YOU WANT TO SHARE 'EM IN THE COMMUNITY, THEY DON'T COME FREE.
SO I'M HOPING THAT THE ISSUES OF THE CONDITIONAL USE, HEARING AND LEGISLATION, I MEAN, AND, AND, AND LITIGATION IS NOT MAKING YOU THINK ABOUT MONEY.
WE WANT THIS, WE HAVE VALUES, VALUES COST SOMETHING AND IT'S WORTH IT.
SO I REALLY HOPE THAT YOU SET THAT ASIDE IN YOUR THINKING.
SO I JUST REALLY BELIEVE THAT IN MY EXPERIENCE, TOWNSHIPS THAT STAND UP FOR THEIR ZONING, STAND UP FOR THE VALUES AND STAND AWAY FROM TRANSACTIONAL EVENTS LIKE THIS THAT SEEM TO GO ROLLING THROUGH THIS PROPERTY.
I'M ASKING YOU TO VOTE NO ON THIS AMENDMENT TO ASK THE APPLICANT TO HOLD OFF THE CONDITIONAL USE AND GO BACK WITH THE HARD WORK AND THE INSIGHT AND THE PARTNERSHIP OF THE PARK HOUSE SAFE PARK HOUSE GROUP AND SEE IF WE CAN'T GET SOMETHING BETTER.
JAMES HOFFMAN, H-O-F-F-M-A-N 1199 SECOND AVENUE.
UH, HAD A RUSH TO GET HERE TONIGHT, BUT UH, WAS ABLE TO WATCH SOME OF IT ONLINE.
WHAT I CAN'T BELIEVE IS THAT THE TOWNSHIP PEOPLE THAT HAVE TESTIFIED HERE TODAY, THEY CANNOT BELIEVE WHY THIS IS EVEN BEING CONSIDERED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
SEEMED TO HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT THIS IS A POLITICAL FOOTBALL.
IT HAS BEEN FROM THE BEGINNING, FROM WHEN JOSH SHAPIRO SOLD THIS PROPERTY AS A COMMISSIONER AND THE BACK DOOR DEALS AND WHICH CANNOT BE PROVED UTTER.
IT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION THAT ENABLED THIS TO HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE TO COVER THE DEFICIT FOR THE MOVIE THEATER DEBACLE DOWN IN ORANGETOWN.
AGAIN, I'M GONNA REMIND EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU THAT ARE UP THERE THAT RAN ON THE FACT THAT YOU WERE AGAINST CHANGING THE ZONING.
WE'RE NOT AGAINST THE DEVELOPMENT OF THAT PROPERTY.
WE ARE AGAINST THE DEVELOPMENT OF THAT PROPERTY THAT CONTRADICTS OUR EXISTING ZONING THAT WAS DESIGNED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AT THE TIME WITH THE FORETHOUGHT TO PROTECT THIS PROPERTY FROM EXACTLY THIS KIND OF MONSTROSITY IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.
WHETHER IT'S 600 OR 1200, STAND YOUR GROUND.
IT'S MORE THAN A GUN RIGHTS ISSUE.
THE ZONING WAS PUT IN PLACE TO PROTECT IT FROM THIS.
[02:05:06]
HI, MY NAME'S HILLARY BURILLO, 1 93 COUNTRY RIDGE DRIVE.CAN YOU SPELL YOUR NAME, PLEASE? SURE.
H-I-L-L-A-R-Y-B-O-R-Z-I-L-L-L-Z-Z-I-L-L-L.
UM, I WANNA THANK EVERYBODY FOR TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE WIDENING OF OLD STATE ROAD.
I DO THINK, UM, THAT'S HELPFUL, BUT I KNOW WHATEVER BENEFIT THAT WE GET FROM WIDENING THAT CENTER PART, UM, I FEEL LIKE IT'S GONNA BE NEGATED BY THE TAPERING AT EITHER END.
I'M CONCERNED THAT THAT COULD ACTUALLY CAUSE A BIT MORE DANGER THAN, UM, WHAT WE HAVE NOW.
UM, MY SECOND CONCERN IS AT THE PLANNING MEETING, IT WAS BROUGHT UP THAT THE TRAFFIC CIRCLE ON THE DRAWINGS AND WHICH WAS PROPOSED, UM, MAY NOT BE IN FACT DONE UNTIL AFTER THE LAND IS DEVELOPED, AFTER THE TRAFFIC ISSUES OCCUR.
UM, SO I'M KIND OF CONFUSED AS TO WHY WE'RE EVEN CONSIDERING A PROPOSAL, UM, BEFORE WE ACTUALLY ADDRESS SOME OF THE TRAFFIC ISSUES WHICH WOULD COME INTO PLAY.
UM, AND MY OTHER CONCERN, AND I KNOW YOU RAISED, THANK YOU SO MUCH ABOUT THE ENROLLMENT ISSUES.
I AM A PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER, HAVE BEEN FOR 30 YEARS, AND I DO KNOW THAT YOU'RE WORKING WITH YOUR BEST PROJECTIONS POSSIBLE.
UM, I HAVE ALSO BEEN THROUGH MANY REDISTRICT THINGS WORKING WITH THOSE PROJECTIONS, AND, UM, UNFORTUNATELY THOSE PROJECTIONS ARE OFTEN UNDERESTIMATED SIGNIFICANTLY.
AND THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION IS OFTEN MUCH DIFFERENT.
THE SCHOOLS ARE BURDENED, UM, OFTEN WITH MORE CHILDREN THAN ARE PROJECTED IN THOSE STUDIES.
WEST, WEST 1 29 SYCAMORE COURT.
I LIVE IN A TOWN HOME DEVELOPMENT, UM, EO WOODS, WHICH IS VERY SIMILAR IN LAYOUT IN MANY WAYS, SIZE OF THE BUILDINGS, ET CETERA.
WE FIGURE IN THAT TOWN HOME DEVELOPMENT, WE HAVE ONE AND A HALF STUDENTS, SCHOOL AGE STUDENTS PER HOUSE.
SO WHEREVER THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS GETTING THE NUMBERS, THEY'RE NOT GETTING THE NUMBERS FROM THAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT.
MY THOUGHT, PLEASE VOTE THEM FOR THIS.
WE DON'T NEED THAT MUCH MORE CONGESTION, MORE STUDENTS IN OUR SCHOOLS.
RAY ROCKO, 3 74 VISTA DRIVE, JUST BY NAME.
SO I GOTTA TELL YOU, I I CAME HERE TONIGHT WITH A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THOUGHT OF WHAT I MIGHT BE SAYING.
AND I GOTTA TELL YOU AS A BOARD, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO KEEP MY MIND OPEN TO IT.
AS I SAT IN THE ROOM TONIGHT, I GUESS THE TWO WORDS THAT CAME TO MIND FOR ME WERE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS I'VE BEEN PART OF THE SPRING FOR NO SPRING FOR
WE'VE BEEN VERY ACTIVE IN THE COMMUNITY.
AS I LISTEN TONIGHT ON THE FINANCIAL PLANS, I FEEL LIKE HATES.
LET'S BUILD A STADIUM, RIGHT? WE'LL MAKE A LOT OF REVENUE.
UH, WHO'S PAYING FOR THE STADIUM? OH, WE ARE, UM, ON THE SCHOOLS FOR ANYBODY WHO'S REALLY INTERESTED, I SERVED ON THE BOARD FOR NINE YEARS.
THEY ARE MISSING THE MARK AT THE END OF THE DAY.
IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THEIR PROBLEM.
THEY, THEY, THEY DEALT WITH WHAT THEY GOT.
BUT ANYBODY KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT OUR AREA AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
THERE'S FULL DAY KINDERGARTEN COMING IN HERE.
DEVELOPMENTS ARE TURNING OVER, NEW FAMILIES ARE MOVING IN AND FUTURE REGRESSION, UH, PROJECTIONS, THEY JUST OFF.
RIGHT? IT'S AMAZING TO ME WHEN I LOOK AT THE PROJECTIONS ON THE SCHOOL BOARD MAKING AN ADDITIONAL $3 MILLION.
I LAUGH, HAVING SERVED FOR NINE YEARS, AND RIGHT NOW THEY'RE IN FOR A BUDGET INCREASE OF 5.4, WHICH IS ABOVE WHAT'S ACCEPTABLE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MAKE ENDS MEET.
I STRUGGLE WITH MY NEIGHBOR WHO LIVES AT SECOND AVE IN OLD STATE ROAD.
I DON'T KNOW HOW WE FIXED THAT THING UNLESS WE
[02:10:01]
PUSH THAT WHOLE DEVELOPMENT UP TO THE NORTH BECAUSE HE LIVES THERE AND THERE'S NO WAY YOU FIX THAT INTERSECTION.EMINENT DOMAIN DOESN'T SOUND GOOD TO ME AND WE DON'T NEED IN CONTROL THE OTHER END.
UM, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW WE GET ANY BUSES UP THAT ROAD.
IT'S GONNA BE A BIT OF A NIGHTMARE.
WE TALKED ABOUT THE ZONING LAST TIME THAT WE FELT LIKE IT WASN'T APPROPRIATE.
I BELIEVE THE COVENANTS THAT YOU TALK ABOUT, I PREFER TO SEE THEM IN THE ZONING.
I DON'T LIKE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES AND I FEEL LIKE WE'RE EXPOSED.
THERE ARE LOOPHOLES AND ENDS THAT WE WILL MISS IF WE DON'T GET THE ZONING RIGHT.
AND IT DOES APPLY AS EVERYBODY ELSE HAS SAID HERE TO A LOT OF DIFFERENT AREAS.
I'M NOT SURE THERE'S ANY GOOD OUTCOME HERE.
I WOULD SHARE WITH THE BOARD THAT I GUESS MY PERSPECTIVE, HAVING SERVED FOR A LONG TIME WITH MY COMMUNITY IS THAT THEY DON'T WANT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
IF THAT MEANS 1203, THEN BRING IT ON.
THIS DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT FOR US.
ANYBODY WHO LOOKS AT THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY SAYS THIS DOESN'T FIT INTO THE AREA THAT IT'S IN.
THERE'S NO HOUSES TO THE LEFT TO THE SOUTH.
HELP US AVOID UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE TO READ FROM, BUT, UM, CAN, CAN, I DON'T WANNA BE HYPERBOLIC TODAY.
MR. VANNOZZI, CAN YOU JUST SPELL YOUR LAST NAME FOR THE COURT FOR HIS PURPOSES? V AS IN VICTOR, A-G-N-O-Z-Z-I.
UM, DON'T WANNA BE HYPERBOLIC, BUT, UH, PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE KEEP BRINGING IT UP.
BUT UPPER PROVIDENCE IS CLOSER TO BEING KING OF PRUSSIA TODAY THAN EVER.
UH, THE DEVELOPMENT IN KING OF PRUSSIA THAT EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT IS THE RESULT OF A BOARD OF SUPERVISORS THAT FAILED TO LISTEN TO THEIR SOLICITOR, FAILED TO LISTEN TO THE EXPERTS, FAILED TO LOOK AT THE NUMBERS.
YOU CHOOSE TO VOTE AGAINST THE LEGAL ADVICE THAT YOU PAID FOR.
THE OWNER OF PARKHOUSE WILL SUE YOU.
THEY HAVE A LINE ITEM IN THEIR BUDGET FOR A LAWSUIT.
THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT HERE FOR GAMES.
SO IT'S ONLY LIKE AN ELECTRIC BILL.
THEN THEY'RE GONNA SUE AN EMOTIONAL VOTE AGAINST THE TAX AMENDMENT WILL BE A FAILURE OF EACH SUPERVISOR'S FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY.
YOU GOT ELECTED, YOU PUT YOUR NAME ON THE BALLOT, PEOPLE VOTED FOR YOU.
SO IT'S TIME TO DO YOUR JOB, BUT DO IT FOR EVERYBODY, NOT JUST FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE.
IF YOU VOTE FOR 1200 HOMES, THE PEOPLE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF TOWN ARE COME DOWN TO YOU AND SAY, WHAT'S WITH THE 1,203 HOMES? THEY'RE NOT HERE.
AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A LOT OF EMOTION HERE.
THERE'S SOME, EVERYBODY'S GOOD HERE, BUT YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE WHOLE TOWNSHIP PARK.
FRENCH GROUP WAS AGAINST ANY ZONING CHANGE UNTIL THEY PROPOSED 253 HOMES BUILT THE WAY THEY WANTED TO AND WHERE THEY WANTED IT TO.
SO YOU'RE EITHER AGAINST ZONING CHANGE OR YOU'RE FOR IT.
SO THEY WANT TO PUSH THE 253 HOMES TO THE NORTH SIDE NEXT TO SOMEBODY ELSE'S HOUSE.
AND THAT'S WHAT ALWAYS HAPPENS.
JUST REMEMBER THAT YOU ARE THE BOARD, YOU'RE THE DECIDER.
WHEN YOU VOTE, FIVE MINUTES AFTER YOU VOTE, THEY'RE ALL GONNA LEAVE, INCLUDING ME.
AND THEN YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO, YOU'RE GONNA WORK WITH THE, UH, DEVELOPER.
THE PEOPLE WHO, UH, OPPOSE THIS WILL WORK WITH THE DEVELOPER AND THEY'RE GONNA BUILD A NICE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE, NONE OF US WANT IT, BUT THE ZONING, THE COURT RULINGS AND THE THE LAWS THAT ARE CURRENTLY ENFORCED, UM, ARE VERY MUCH IN THEIR FAVOR.
UH, AS FAR AS THE, UM, NOBODY BELIEVES THE, UH, WHAT IS IT? THE, UM, THE, THE DOCUMENT THAT THEY JUST PRODUCED.
NOBODY'S HERE TO, TO PULL THE WOOL OVER ANYBODY'S EYES.
ALL THE FACTS, ALL THE DATA, THE SCHOOLS, THE THE COSTS.
NOBODY'S EVER, OH, I DON'T BELIEVE IT.
THEN, THEN WHY DO WE HAVE ENGINEERS HERE? YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IT.
MAYBE IT'S NOT PERFECT, BUT IT'S, IT'S THE BEST SCIENCE WE HAVE.
SO, UH, JUST BECAUSE, UM, IT'S THIS PROJECT, WE CAN'T DISCOUNT WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY.
OKAY, SO URGE YOU TO VOTE FOR THIS, UH, ZONING CHANGE TONIGHT.
[02:15:23]
UM, AMANDA TURNER, FOUR 11 E ROAD UMS, U-R-N-E-R.SO, UM, I OPPOSED NO TO THE VOTING, TO THE ZONING CHANGE.
LIKE YOU SAID, YOU, A LOT OF YOU RAN ON NO ZONING ZONING CHANGES.
SO THINK WE SHOULD, YOU KNOW, KEEP THAT.
UM, ALSO I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS HIM, AS HE POINTED OUT, YOU KNOW, THEY SAID LIKE NO IS ANY CHANGES AND THEN THEY SAID 253.
I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO HELP THE PEOPLE.
THEY'RE ALL TRYING TO WORK EACH OTHER OUT AND THAT'S A GOOD THING TO HAVE COMMUNICATION AND ALL THIS GOOD STUFF.
BUT LIKE, MY THING IS, I ALSO KNOW THAT IN OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT WE'RE 55 PLUS WHEN THEY COULDN'T SELL THEM ALL THE PE, THE BUILDERS CAME BACK AND SAID, WE CAN'T SELL THEM ALL.
SO LIKE WHAT'S TO KEEP THAT FROM HAPPENING HERE? IF YOU MAKE 1200 IN GREEN, THAT A RESTRICTED, BUT THEN THEY CAN'T SELL THEM ALL AND THEY COME BACK AND SAY, OH, WE CAN'T SELL THEM ALL.
WELL YOU GONNA LOWER THE AGE RESTRICTION OR YOU NOT GONNA HAVE AN AGE RESTRICTION.
SO THEN THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN NEGATES THAT.
BUT YOU CAN ALSO SAY THE SAME THING WITH THIS.
THEY SAID THEY USED 25% BECAUSE IT IS A LITTLE BETTER THAN WHAT IS.
WHAT'S TO STOP THEM FROM COMING BACK AND SAYING WE CAN'T SELL THEM ALL.
WE NEED TO CHANGE THE RESTRICTION.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING YOU GUYS WOULD DECIDE ALSO IF THEY FLIGHT THERE, YES OR NO, IF THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO CHANGE IT.
BUT IT IS AN OPTION PLUS DOWN THE LINE.
ANY OTHER PLACE THAT'S AROUND HERE, IF YOU CHANGE IT, YOU CHANGE THIS TO THIS RESIDENTIAL TOO.
EVEN THOUGH THEY SAID THEY WOULDN'T GO TO 50 FEET, IT'S STILL ON THERE.
STILL ANYBODY ELSE COULD GO LITERALLY GO TO 50 FEET.
ANYBODY DOWN THE LINE THAT SAYS, OH, WE'RE GONNA CHANGE IT TO THIS.
ALL OF THEM, ALL OF THAT AREA COULD NOW BE UNDER THIS SAME JURISDICTION.
I THINK THAT'S HOW THAT WORKS.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT ALSO CONCERNED TO ME.
SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, IS STILL THE BEST OPTION AND YOU TRY AND WORK IT OUT AFTER.
ANYBODY ELSE? YOU HAVE TO SPEAK.
M-O-M-O-H-I-T-E 1 1 7 BENNINGTON ROAD.
I'M SORRY, YOUR FULL NAME PLEASE.
AND WHERE DO YOU LIVE? 1 1 7 BENNINGTON ROAD.
OKAY, SO AFTER HEARING ALL THIS, I'M GOING TO SO MANY MEETINGS.
I DON'T THINK WE HAVE EVER NOT YET RESOLVED THIS ISSUE.
I THINK WE HAVE NOT SEEN MORE OPTIONS.
WE ARE JUST COMING HERE AND TALKING THE SAME THING AGAIN AND AGAIN.
I THINK THIS HAS BECOME LIKE A BIG CASE STUDY.
PUT INTO HARVARD, ANY OTHER INSTITUTION AND TRY TO GET SOME YOUNG PEOPLE OR SOME PEOPLE THINKERS OUT OF WHO THINK OUT OF THE BOX.
I THINK WE ARE JUST TALKING THE SAME THING.
THE PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN THEIR VERDICT AS NO ZONING.
AND WHY ARE WE CHANGING IT? WE ARE SIMPLE THINGS.
WE DON'T HAVE TO JUST, WE ARE GETTING THE PRESSURE FROM THE SIDE BECAUSE THEY'RE COMING UP WITH ALL THESE BIG, BIG MAPS SHOWING IT TO US.
AND WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH HALF OF THE STUFF? WE ARE NOT EVEN UNDERSTANDING THE LEGAL STUFF.
THE COMMUNITY DOESN'T WANT, WHY ARE WE DEVIATING FROM WHAT YOU HAVE PROMISED, THE SENTENCE SAYS THAT ROOTED IN HISTORY.
AND WHAT IS THAT? GROWTH IN PROMISES.
OUR PROMISE THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN US.
WHO ROOTED IN HISTORY? WHAT HISTORY ARE WE GOING TO HAVE ONCE THIS LAND IS BUILT? OKAY, THIS IS VERY SIMPLE, BUT WE ARE MAKING IT VERY COMPLICATED.
WE NEED TO FIND, IF YOU HAVE TO FINANCE THEM, GIVE THEM MONEY BACK.
FIND WAYS AND FIND MONEY FOR THEM.
THAT'S THE JOB THAT YOU NEED TO DO.
[02:20:03]
WHERE CAN WE GET THIS MONEY? THIS IS AMERICA.CAN WE HAVE THIS IN AMERICA? I DON'T BELIEVE THIS.
WHEN WE MOVED IN THIS PLACE, THIS WAS SO BEAUTIFUL PRI IT IS EVEN STILL TODAY AND I DON'T WANT IT TO GO.
AND THERE ARE MANY OTHER PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO ARE SAYING THEY DON'T WANT IT.
BUT WE HAVE MADE IT VERY COMPLICATED.
ASK YOURSELF LAST TIME ALSO, I SAID, LOOK AT THE HAPPINESS INDEX.
IF WE ARE GOING TO BE UNHAPPY, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THOSE 1200 PEOPLE ARE ALSO GOING TO BE UNHAPPY BECAUSE THEY WILL FACE THE SAME PROBLEMS. WHAT HAPPINESS ARE WE GOING TO GIVE? WHAT TOWNSHIP ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? IT'S A PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP HEAVEN.
PLEASE LOOK WHAT WE ARE SAYING.
LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE OF THE COMMUNITY.
YOU ARE NOT SOMETHING IS INFLUENCING YOU.
JUST THROW THAT INFLUENCE AWAY.
AND LOOK AS PEOPLE, PEOPLE OF AMERICA, WE ARE FORGETTING OUR FUNDAMENTAL VALUES OF THIS COUNTRY.
PLEASE, MR. BURER, CONSIDER THIS.
FIND ANOTHER WAY OF SOLUTION FOR THIS.
LEAVE THIS, UH, THIS COMMUNITY ALONE.
LET US HELP TO GET HIS MONEY BACK.
THINK HOW WE CAN GET THE MONEY BACK.
THAT IS THE THING THAT WE NEED TO SORT OUT.
HOW CAN WE GET HIS MONEY BACK SO THAT HE'S HAPPY WITH HIS OWN ALONE? WE DON'T.
LAURIE HIGGINS 1 0 1 OMA LANE.
I DON'T WANT THIS PROPERTY DEVELOPED EITHER.
AND I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE, BUT I DON'T HAVE A MAGIC WAND AND I ALSO DON'T HAVE 50 TO $80 MILLION TO BUY THE PROPERTY BACK.
THE TOWNSHIP DOES NOT HAVE A MAGIC WAND OR 50 TO $80 MILLION TO BUY THE PROPERTY BACK.
IF THERE IS SOMEONE IN THIS ROOM OR IN THE FRIENDS OF PARK HOUSE OR ANYWHERE ELSE WHO HAS THE 50 TO $80 MILLION TO BUY THE PROPERTY BACKER TO PLEASE LET US KNOW.
I MEAN, I EVEN WROTE A LETTER TO M KNIGHT SHAMAL ASKING HIM FOR MONEY.
THE STATE GIVES CONTROL TO THE PROPERTY OWNER.
OUR HANDS ARE PRETTY MUCH TIED.
YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE DISNEYLAND PROPOSAL, Y'ALL DIDN'T LIKE THE 1200 HOME PROPOSAL AND Y'ALL DON'T LIKE THIS ONE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE IS LEFT.
THE COMPROMISE IS 88 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE AND THE REST DEVELOPED.
THERE IS AN AXIOM IN THE LEGAL FIELD AND I KNOW THAT'S ONLY BECAUSE I'M MARRIED TO AN ATTORNEY AND THAT IS WHEN THE FACTS ARE WITH YOU.
WHEN THE LAW IS WITH YOU, POUND THE LAW.
AND WHEN NEITHER ARE WITH YOU POUND THE TABLE AND SHADOW A WHILE.
WE HAVE BEEN POUNDING THE TABLE FOR SEVERAL YEARS AT THIS POINT.
THERE ARE NEW PEOPLE IN ON THE GAME WHO DON'T KNOW THE BACKGROUND, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN AROUND AND HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO THE HISTORY ON THIS PROJECT, THIS PROPERTY FOR YEARS.
LIFE HAS GIVEN US A BOATLOAD OF LEMONS AND WE NEED TO MAKE THE BEST LEMONADE WE CAN.
CAN YOU SPELL THAT? F-R-A-Z-I-E-R 1 34 LARWOOD COURT.
SO AS ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS HAD SAID, I LIVE IN A COMMUNITY CALLED PROCURE WOODS, WHICH IS, THAT CONTAINS 435
[02:25:01]
TOWNHOUSE COMMUNITIES.HOWEVER, WE HAVE SEVERAL HOMES IN OUR DEVELOPMENT THAT HAVE THREE BEDROOMS AND THERE'S A FAMILY OF FIVE LIVING THERE.
MY CONCERN IS THE FACT THAT MY DAUGHTER CAN'T EVEN RIDE THE SCHOOL BUS BECAUSE THERE'S A THREE TO CI FIND THE NUMBER OF 200 AND SOME TO BE VERY LOW.
WHAT ALSO HAPPENS EVERY TIME A NEW DEVELOPMENT GOES UP IN THIS AREA IS WE END UP WITH FLOODING OUR HOA WENT AND PUT TOGETHER AN ENTIRE PLAN TO HELP WITH DRAINAGE ISSUES.
AND NOW THIS YEAR WE HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN WITH THE, WITH THE TOWN HOME OR WHATEVER COMMUNITIES GOING UP ON THE BLOCK.
HOPWOOD, THIS IS GONNA BE ANOTHER MAJOR ISSUE.
THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS VOTE NO.
ANYBODY ELSE? RECESS? YEAH, WE'RE GONNA RECESS AND EVAPORATE FOR FIVE MINUTES.
AND WE LISTENED TO ALL THE COMMENTS FROM THE RESIDENCES AND NOW WE'RE GONNA DO BOARD, UM, COMMENTS AND THEN THE STAFF HAS COMMENTS.
YEAH, I'LL MAKE SOME COMMENTS.
UM, FIRST OFF, THANK YOU FRIENDS OF PARKHOUSE.
THE AMOUNT OF TIME, ENERGY, MONEY YOU PUT INTO THIS IS, UH, UNDENIABLE.
YOU'VE EDUCATED ME IN THE PROCESS AND, UH, AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR PASSION CAME THROUGH AND, UH, AND, AND I REALLY THANK YOU FOR THAT.
AND THANK YOU GENTLEMEN FOR COMING BACK TONIGHT AND GOING THROUGH THE FACTS.
UM, I DID CAMPAIGN FOR NO REZONING OF PARK HOUSE.
I'M GONNA RUN THROUGH WHAT I VIEW AS, AS AS FACTS.
I ALSO CAMPAIGNED ON SMART DEVELOPMENT.
SO IF I REFLECT ON THAT FOR A MINUTE, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TONIGHT, I'M A S****Y POLITICIAN.
I DIDN'T, I'M NOT SITTING HERE BECAUSE I WANTED TO BE A POLITICIAN.
I'M SITTING HERE BECAUSE I WANTED TO SERVE THE BEST INTEREST OF THIS TOWNSHIP.
SO I KNOW THAT MY REZONING SIGNS FROM FOUR YEARS AGO HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP A LOT.
BUT WHERE I AM FOUR YEARS LATER, SITTING IN THIS CHAIR IS A VERY SERIOUS RESPONSIBILITY.
AND THAT'S WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE IN MY MIND.
OKAY, IF WE LOOK AT THE, IF WE LOOK AT THE FACTS, WE HAVE A 1203 PLAN, A 600 PLAN PLUS THE GARY BERMAN 15.
I WANT TO KIND OF RUN THROUGH WHAT I VIEW AS THE SIX TOP PRIORITIES OF THIS PROJECT.
NUMBER ONE, NUMBER OF UNITS, DOOR NUMBER ONE, INSTITUTIONAL 1,203 UNITS.
WHEN SHAPIRO MADE THE DEAL, IT GOT CHANGED.
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES WHAT I'VE LEARNED IS A PAST SUPERVISOR, SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, CHANGED THAT ORDINANCE FROM WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY SOLD AS TO 15 UNITS PER ACRE.
SO IF YOU DO THE MATH, THAT'S 2,130 UNITS THAT CAN BE BUILT ON THAT BY, RIGHT? THE PLAN IS 1203, CONDITIONAL USE.
THE TEXT AMENDMENT BROUGHT THAT DOWN TO 900.
AND NOW WE HAVE THIS THING CALLED THE DECLARATIONS PAGE THAT FIXES THE 600 AND PLUS THE MR BERMAN 15 THAT HE'S GOING GOING TO BUY BACK.
I TRUST GREG AT THE END OF THIS IN THAT THOSE ARE, THAT DECLARATION CAN BE UPHELD.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A FALSE PIECE OF PAPER, IT'S A FACT AND IT'S NOW A RECORDED FACT IN A HEARING.
UM, SO I TRUST THAT HEIGHT STRENGTHENS DOOR NUMBER ONE, INSTITUTIONAL CAN GO UP TO 70 FEET.
70 FEET AT IS KING OF PRESSURE.
THE TEXT AMENDMENT 48 FEET AT 48 FEET.
CHIEF, WE GOTTA BUY A NEW LADDER TRUCK AND STAFF THREE, FOUR FULL-TIME FIREMEN TO BE ABLE
[02:30:01]
TO RUN THAT FIRE TRUCK ALL THE TIME IN CASE WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO GO ABOVE 35 FEET.SO AGAIN, IF WE HAVE A DECLARATION THAT SAYS 35 FEET, IT AVOIDS THE NEED TO BUY A LADDER TRUCK.
DOESN'T AVOID THE NEED REGARDLESS OF WHICH DOOR WE WALK THROUGH.
IT DOESN'T AVOID THE FACT THAT WE'RE GONNA NEED MORE POLICE ENVIRONMENT.
THE AMBULANCE SERVICE IS UNDERFUNDED AND HATS OFF TO THE EMS BECAUSE THEY GET IT DONE.
BUT THE FACT IS IT'S UNDERFUNDED AND WE LONG AFTER TONIGHT ARE GONNA HAVE TO FIND A SOLUTION, WHETHER IT'S UPPER PROVIDENCE, IT'S REGIONAL, OR IT'S SOMETHING ELSE.
BUT WE'RE GONNA NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GROW AND HAVE THE RIGHT EMS SOLUTION FOR OUR, FOR OUR ENVIRONMENT, FOR OUR, FOR OUR TOWNSHIP.
MOVING ON TO EMERGENCY SERVICES AS WELL.
UM, OH, I ALREADY TOUCHED ON THAT.
SO I LOOK AT ROADS THREE WAYS, RIGHT? I LOOK AT IT AS PEAK IMPACT, CONGESTION AND WIDTH.
DOESN'T MATTER WHICH DOOR WE GO THROUGH, WE'RE GETTING CONGESTION.
THE QUESTION IS, IS THAT CONGESTION DURING PEAK HOUR OR NOT? THE INSTITUTIONAL WOULD ARGUE PROBABLY NOT DURING PEAK HOUR.
THE THE OSR TWO OF TEXT AMENDMENT WITH THE, WITH THE DECLARATIONS WOULD ARGUE IT'S GOING TO IMPACT, BUT IT DOESN'T.
REGARDLESS, THE ROADS ARE GONNA NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AS FAR AS THE WIDTH GOES.
IN THE INSTITUTIONAL, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, ROADS NEED TO BE 26 FEET WIDE, TAKES AWAY SPACE IN THE TEXT AMENDMENT 20 FEET WIDE.
SO YOU GET SOME, YOU GET SOME SPACE BACK.
YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE THE ROADS AS WIDE AND WE'LL WEIGH IN.
THERE WILL BE OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE TO HAPPEN, UM, REGARDLESS OF WHICH DOOR WE WALK THROUGH.
IF I THINK ABOUT THE SCHOOLS, SO THIS WAS A BIG ONE FOR ME.
I'VE, I'VE, UH, MY WIFE AND I, YOU KNOW, WE'VE PUT FIVE CHILDREN, STILL PUTTING THEM THROUGH THE SCHOOL, SCHOOL DISTRICT.
UM, I'VE, I'VE HEARD LOTS OF TESTIMONY ON THE SCHOOL.
WE, WE HAVE THE TESTIMONY THAT, UH, MR. HETZEL HAS BROUGHT FORWARD A FEW TIMES.
UH, WE CAN BELIEVE IT OR NOT, UH, WE HAVE TESTIMONY FROM OUR 10 YEAR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE MORE DETAILS, WHICH, UH, FRANKLY LINE UP WITH MR. HEEL'S NUMBERS AND I DON'T TRUST ANY OF IT.
SO I CALLED THE SCHOOL BOARD PERSONALLY AND I HAD THE CONVERSATION, AND THIS IS WHAT I LEARNED ABOUT THE SCHOOL BOARD.
THEY DO DESIGN, THEY USE ENGINEERS.
THERE'S NO NEED TO BUILD A NEW SCHOOL AT THIS TIME.
THE NUMBERS SHOWN ARE FACT, THERE IS CAPACITY IN THE SCHOOL.
MY CHILDREN WENT THROUGH OAKS.
SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT MEANS THE SCHOOL BOARD HAS WORK TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY'RE GONNA FIT THE SCHOOL CHILDREN WE HAVE WITH WITHIN THE CAPACITY OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, WHICH IS MUCH BIGGER THAN UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP.
BUT IT'S A FACT THE SCHOOL BOARD KNOWS IT AND THEY NEED TO WORK ON THAT AND THEY'RE GOING TO WORK ON THAT.
THE DISTRICT HAS THE, THE ABILITY TO REACT THAT, THAT IS THE QUOTE THAT I GOT AND IT WILL BE OKAY.
SO WHETHER WE TRUST SCHOOL BOARD 10 YEAR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OR WHAT WAS PRESENTED TONIGHT, ALL THREE OF THOSE SOURCES OF INFORMATION POINT TO THE SAME INFORMATION THAT WE WILL BE OKAY AS A SCHOOL DISTRICT.
I CAN'T PROMISE ANYBODY THAT I'M NOT PERFECT AT THIS, BUT WHAT I CAN SAY IS THERE'S ONLY 5% OF THE TOWNSHIP TO DEVELOP LEFT.
AND IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, I THINK YOU'RE GONNA SEE IN A FEW MONTHS WE'RE DOING SOME REALLY NICE THINGS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ZONE THIS TOWNSHIP APPROPRIATELY.
SO THIS IS A BIG DECISION TONIGHT, RIGHT? BUT THERE'S NOT A LOT LEFT TO DEVELOP ADDITIONAL NOTES.
PLAN AND COMMISSION VOTED NO ON THIS ORDINANCE BECAUSE OF THE CONCERNS OF THE ORDINANCE, SOME OF WHICH HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED TONIGHT.
THE HEIGHT, THE NUMBER OF UNITS, ACTIONS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN REGARDLESS OF WHICH DOOR WE GO DOWN TONIGHT.
WE NEED TO AMEND THE OSR TO TEXT AMENDMENT AND ADVERTISE IT RIGHT AWAY.
I'M LOOKING AT MR. JEFF HERE AND GET IT FIXED RIGHT? GET IT FIXED SO THAT IT'S RIGHT MOVING FORWARD AND NOTHING ELSE CAN COME THROUGH BECAUSE THE DECLARATIONS ARE SPECIFIC TO THIS, BUT NOT THE THE AMENDMENT OR NOT THE OSR TWO ITSELF.
WE ALSO NEED TO AMEND THE INSTITUTIONAL ORDINANCE BECAUSE IT HAS FLAWS.
WE'VE BEEN TOLD BY FIVE DIFFERENT LAWYERS
[02:35:01]
THAT 1203 WILL GET APPROVED BY WRITE, AND THAT'S THE MINIMUM.85 IS THE MAX DOOR NUMBER TWO, IT STOPS THERE.
THE TRAILS CAN BE APPROVED AT THE END OF THIS.
YOU HAVE OPEN SPACE THAT CAN BE PRESERVED IN ONE PLAN AND NOT THE OTHER.
YES, INSTITUTIONAL SAYS 50% OPEN SPACE, BUT IF YOU LOOKED AT THE 1203 PLAN, THAT OPEN SPACE IS NOT CONTIGUOUS.
IT IS NOT WHERE YOU CAN PUT A PARK.
IT IS NOT WHERE YOU CAN PUT TRAILS.
SO YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF, WHAT KIND OF OPEN SPACE DO YOU REALLY WANT IN OUR TOWNSHIP? AND THAT'S AN IMPORTANT QUESTION TONIGHT.
I STATED THE FACTS AS I KNOW THEM TONIGHT AND I LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING TO SERVE THIS TOWNSHIP AND DOING ITS BEST INTEREST.
UM, FIRST OFF, I WANT TO THANK ALL THE UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP RESIDENTS THAT HAVE COME OUT OVER THE YEARS WITH PASSION AND CONSISTENCY TO SHARE YOUR POINT OF VIEW IN PARKHOUSE.
I KNOW IT'S BEEN A BIG PART OF YOUR LIVES AS IT HAS BEEN MINE, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS.
I'VE HAD PARKHOUSE ON MY RADAR SINCE 2013 WHEN I MARCHED IN NORRISTOWN IN THE HOPES THAT THE COUNTY WOULD NOT SELL THE PROPERTY TO A PRIVATE OWNER.
I WISH I COULD HAVE WORKED MORE CLOSELY WITH THE COMMUNITY TO COME TO THIS POINT.
HOWEVER, AS YOU KNOW, WE HAD TO KEEP OURSELVES NEUTRAL IN ORDER TO SWITCH FROM A LEGISLATURE POSITION TO JUDICIARY JUDICIARY ONE IN CASE OF THE CONDITIONAL USE WHERE WE WOULD ACT AS JUDGES, THEREBY RENDERING US MUTE THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
I WENT ON THE RECORD AS WELL TO NOT SWITCH THE ORDINANCE BECAUSE I TOO THOUGHT THE PROPERTY WOULD BE SAVED IF I HELD FAST.
BUT IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, AS I'VE GATHERED MORE INFORMATION AND LEARNED ALONG THE WAY, I'VE COME TO THE REALIZATION THAT OUR ORDINANCE WILL MOST LIKELY NOT WITHSTAND THE COURT PROCESS.
THE BOARD HAS CONSULTED WITH LEGAL AND PLANNING PROFESSIONALS ABOUT THE LIKELIHOOD OF THIS PROPERTY BEING DEVELOPED WITH 1,203 UNITS UNDER THE CURRENT ORDINANCE.
AND BASED ON ALL OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND THE ADVICE WE HAVE HEARD, I'VE CONCLUDED THAT IT MAY BE EXTREMELY LIKELY THAT THOSE 1203, AT LEAST UNITS, AT LEAST 1203, COULD EVENTUALLY BE DEVELOPED UNDER THIS CURRENT ORDINANCE.
WHETHER THAT MEANS THROUGH THE UPCOMING CONDITIONAL USE HEARING OR BY THE ORDER OF A JUDGE.
WITH THIS INFORMATION FROM PROFESSIONALS, I HAVE THE FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY TO MORE THAN 24,000 UPT RESIDENTS TO NOT SPEND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN LEGAL MONEY IN A BATTLE THAT WE WILL MOST LIKELY NOT WIN.
AND BE TOLD BY A JUDGE THAT THE APPLICANT CAN DEED PUT TWO HUNDRED AND THREE SIXTY TWO PLUS UNITS ON THE PROPERTY.
SOME OF YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL COME TO FRUITION, BUT IF YOU TRULY CARE FOR THE PROPERTY IN CONTIGUOUS OPEN SPACE WILL NOT GO DOWN THE ROAD OF A GUARANTEED 82 AC OF OPEN SPACE.
82 TO 82 TO 80 80 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE, 585 MIXED UNITS RATHER THAN THE 1203, ALL 62 PLUS THAT WILL STRAIN OUR EMERGENCY SERVICES FURTHER THAN THEY ALREADY ARE.
MY VOTE MOTIVATOR HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE LOWEST DENSITY WE CAN PUSH FOR.
AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN KEEP PUSHING IT THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
AND FOR THE MOST AMOUNT OF PROPERTY SET ASIDE IS OPEN SPACE WHICH ALL OF OUR TOWNSHIP RESIDENTS CAN ENJOY.
I TRY TO REMAIN OPEN-MINDED TO ALL OF THE RESIDENTS AND PROFESSIONALS AND MAKE THE BEST DECISION FOR THE TOWNSHIP AS A WHOLE.
TIM, WOULD YOU HAVE COMMENTS FROM STAFF? YES.
STAFF DOES, UM, HAVE SOME COMMENTS.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, UH, THAT THE BOARD HERE STAFFS VIEWPOINT BEFORE RENDERING THIS VERY IMPORTANT AND CONSEQUENTIAL VOTE THIS EVENING.
THE BOARD'S AT A CRITICAL CROSSROADS.
YOU HAVE TWO CHALLENGING DECISIONS BEFORE YOU.
DO YOU MOVE FORWARD AFFIRMATIVELY WITH THE PROPOSED TAX AMENDMENT OR DO YOU OPT FOR THE CONDITIONAL USE OPTION? ONE OF MY CARDINAL RESPONSIBILITIES AS TOWNSHIP MANAGERS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF HAS PROVIDED THE BOARD WITH WISE AND OBJECTIVE COUNSEL THAT IS DEVOID OF EMOTIONS AND BASED SOLELY ON FACTS AND DATA TO HELP YOU MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION ON WHAT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF ALL 24,000 UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP RESIDENTS.
STAFF DOES NOT ENVY YOU AS YOU WEIGH THE PROS AND
[02:40:01]
CONS OF THE VARIOUS OPTIONS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PARKHOUSE DEVELOPMENT.HOWEVER, WE WOULD BE DERELICT IN OUR PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITIES IF WE DID NOT WEIGH THE FACTS AND GIVE YOU AN INFORMED AND DISPASSIONATE RECOMMENDATION ON WHAT WE BELIEVE IS THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION.
WHEN YOU REMOVE ALL OF THE TORTURED HISTORY SURROUNDING PARKHOUSE FROM THE COUNTY'S CONTROVERSIAL SALE OF THE PROPERTY TO A, TO PLUG A BUDGET HOLE TO THE IMPASSION PLEAS OF NEIGHBORS WHO WANT TO PRESERVE SCENIC VISTAS.
THE DECISION BEFORE YOU IS REALLY NOT THAT COMPLICATED.
YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU A NEGOTIATED TEXT AMENDMENT THAT PRESERVES 82 ACRES OF CONTIGUOUS OPEN SPACE AND REDUCES THE DENSITY OTHERWISE PERMITTED ON THE PROPERTY.
IN ADDITION, THE APPLICANT HAS OFFERED ASSURANCES BY WAY OF A VOLUNTARY DECLARATION OF RESTRICTED COVENANTS THAT THEY WILL NOT BUILD HIGHER THAN 35 FEET.
AND THE END RESULT OF THIS DEVELOPMENT WILL YIELD NO MORE THAN 585 UNITS.
IT BRINGS CERTAINTY AND CLOSURE TO THIS 10 YEAR SAGA.
WITH THE CONDITIONAL USE PROCESS, YOU WILL HAVE NEITHER CERTAINTY NOR CLOSURE.
YOU WILL HAVE NO GUARANTEED OPEN SPACE.
AND A PLAN WITH DOUBLE THE DENSITY OPTING FOR THE CONDITIONAL USE WILL REQUIRE PLAYING A VERY DANGEROUS CHESS GAME.
TO CHALLENGE THE LEGALITY OF A BUYRIGHT PLAN FOR 1,203 UNITS, WHICH MULTIPLE ATTORNEYS HAVE OPINED IS A PERMITTED USE.
I FEAR THIS PROCESS WILL NOT END WELL AS THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER AND THE CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER OF THIS TOWN.
I CANNOT JUSTIFY THE EXPENDITURE OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN TAXPAYER MONEY FOR A RETURN ON INVESTMENT THAT IS NON-EXISTENT.
REMEMBER THAT MAKING THE RIGHT DECISION IS NOT ALWAYS THE EASIEST DECISION.
DID YOU WANNA SAY ANYTHING OR BILL, DO YOU WANNA PASS THE MOTION? I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
MADAM CHAIR, THAT WE ENACT ORDINANCE 6 0 4 REGARDING PROPOSED ZONING.
TEXT AMENDMENT TO THE OSR DASH TWO OPEN SPACE RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY DASH TWO ZONING DISTRICT FILED BY ROERS FOR HOLDINGS LLC.
I HEARD I HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND.
I KNOW IT'S BEEN A STRUGGLE AND I THANK YOU FOR EVERYBODY'S INPUT.
WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO NEW BUSINESS BECAUSE WE HAVE TWO MORE, UM, DISCUSSION NEEDS.
YOU WANT TO TAKE A FIVE MINUTE PAUSE? HAVE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IF THERE IS FURTHER CONVERSATION, IF YOU COULD PLEASE TAKE IT INTO THE LOBBY.
THE BOARD STILL HAS BUSINESS THAT IT NEEDS TO TRANSACT.
[NEW BUSINESS (ACTION/DISCUSSION ITEMS)]
READY FOR SOME MOTIONS? NO, WE'RE JUST GOING HAVE A HEARING.[02:45:01]
BILL, DO YOU WANT DO THE NEXT ONE? SURE.I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPOINT MELISSA SEOR TO FILL A VACANCY ON THE MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY FOR A TERM THAT EXPIRES IN 2028.
I'LL SECOND SO I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
THE NEXT ONE IS ADOPTING RESOLUTION 2024 DASH 23 AUTHORIZING THE SUBMISSION OF A GRANT UNDER THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM, UM, ENTITLED GREENWAY TRAILS AND RECREATION PROGRAM.
TIM, DID YOU WANNA, UM, OR BRIAN TALK A LITTLE BIT? YEAH, SO WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH DELTA ON OUR NEXT GRANT AND I THINK THIS KIND OF COINCIDES A LITTLE BIT WITH OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
AND I THINK JEFF, AS JEFF INDICATED, OUR LAST, UM, WORKSHOP IS THAT WE REALLY NEED A FRESH SET OF EYES TO TAKE A LOOK AT OUR TRAIL SYSTEM.
AND WE GOT A, AND I THINK I PUT IN THE MHR, UM, PROPOSAL OR SCOPE FROM BOB THOMAS.
AND IT'S ABOUT A, TO DO A REALLY THOROUGH GOOD TRAIL PLANS ABOUT A HUNDRED THOUSAND, AROUND BETWEEN 96 TO A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS.
THERE IS A A, A STATE GRANT THAT WILL PROVIDE 85% OF THE FUNDING FOR THAT.
THE DEADLINE IS MAY 31ST, WHICH IS TWO DAYS FROM NOW.
SO WE WOULD LIKE TO GET THE RESOLUTION ON THE RECORD AND WE'VE BEEN GETTING LETTERS OF SUPPORT FROM SKU CANAL, UH, SCHULL GREENWAYS, VARIOUS BICYCLE COALITIONS THAT ARE IN SUPPORT OF THIS QUESTION.
SO IS THIS GOING TO REFURBISH PARTS OF THE TRAIL THAT EXIST OR IS THIS FOR A NO, IT'S A PLANNING.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ADOPT A RESOLUTION 2024 DASH 23 AUTHORIZING THIS SUBMISSION OF A GRANT UNDER THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM ENTITLED GREENWAYS TRAILS AND RECREATION PROGRAM G-T-E-R-B.
OKAY, I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
[OLD BUSINESS (ACTION/DISCUSSION ITEMS)]
THE NEXT ONE IS AUTOMATIC, RIGHT? WELL, IT IS NOT NECESSARILY.WE, WE NEED SOME TYPE OF, UH, COMMUNICATION FROM THE APPLICANT AS TO WHETHER THEY ARE CONTINUING THE CONDITIONAL USE HEARING.
BY PARTNER CARL LEER WILL SEND A LETTER TO EVERYBODY TOMORROW MORNING AND IT IS ALSO IN OUR DECLARATION THAT WE AGREED TO POSTPONE TO A FUTURE DATE, UH, IN LIGHT OF YOUR RATCHET TONIGHT.
SO THE MOTION ISN'T NEEDED TO CANCEL THE MEETING, BUT ONCE WE RECEIVE THE OFFICIAL CON CONTINUANCE, WE'LL SEND OUT NOTICE TO THOSE WHO REQUESTED NOTICE OF THE, UH, THE HEARING POSTS, THE WEBSITE AND, AND THE DOOR, UH, UH, THAT THE HEARING IS CONTINUED.
SIR, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING ELSE.
WE DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE A VOTE.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION WE ADJOURN.