[00:00:01]
READY?[CALL TO ORDER]
OKAY, WE'RE GONNA CALL THE ORDER OF THE, UH, CLAIM COMMISSION MEETING FOR PERFORMANCE TOWNSHIP ON, UH, MAY 1ST.SO WE'LL CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER.
[MOTION TO APPROVE MAY 1, 2024 PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA]
ON OUR, UM, AGENDA IS TO, UH, LOOK AT APPROVING, UH, THE, THE AGENDA ITSELF, WHICH THERE ISN'T A LOT OF AGENDA.SO, UH, EVERYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT? OR CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING? I'LL MAKE THE MOTION.
SO WE APPROVE THE, UH, THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING.
MOVING ALONG IS, UH, NON, UH, OR PUBLIC COMMENT ON NON AGENDA ITEMS, PUBLIC COMMENT ON NON AGENDA ITEMS, ANYTHING TONIGHT, NOT HEARING ANYTHING.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
MOVE ON TO, UH, TO WHAT WE HAVE TONIGHT, WHICH IS THE MINUTES TO, UH, APPROVE FROM APRIL 3RD AND APRIL 17TH, WHICH IS, UH, IN OUR PACKET.I'M NOT SURE I HAD A CHANCE TO READ EVERY BIT OF IT, BUT I DID SEE IT ONLINE.
SO, UH, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, OR, UM, UH, SUBMISSIONS TO CHANGE THE, UH, MINUTE MEETINGS FROM THOSE TWO DATES? APRIL 3RD AND APRIL 17TH? IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE MINUTES.
I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN.
SO WE APPROVE THAT, UH, MINUTE TO ME MINUTE MEETINGS FROM THOSE TWO DATES, AND NOW WILL
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON MAY 1, 2024]
MOVE FORWARD TO THE BULK OF THE APPLICATION FOR TONIGHT, WHICH IS OUR FRIEND ED LAN AND HIS MER MEN.SO, UM, UM, ED, IF YOU'RE, UH, IF YOU'RE READY, UM, WE'LL TAKE YOU, ED.
UH, ED MULLEN FROM HAMBURG, RUBEN MULLEN, MA AND LUPIN WITH ME TONIGHT IS RE FROM NVR INC.
ROBERT MCCRACKEN FROM NVR INC.
RON KLOS, PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER FROM BOWLER ENGINEERING.
MATT HAMMOND, A PROFESSIONAL TRAFFIC ENGINEER FROM TRAFFIC PLANNING AND DESIGN, AND ERIC KEEL FROM EH CREATIVE SERVICES, LLC AND A ICP PLANNING CONSULTANT, NVR AS EQUITABLE OWNER OF THE PARKHOUSE PROPERTY FILED A REQUEST FOR A TEXT AMENDMENT TO CREATE AN OVERLAY DISTRICT, WHICH WOULD PERMIT DEVELOPMENT OF THE PARKHOUSE PROPERTY IN ACCORDANCE WITH AN AMENDED OSR TWO OPEN SPACE COMMUNITY DASH TWO ORDINANCE.
THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAS SENT IT TO YOU FOR A RECOMMENDATION, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT.
UH, THE AGREEMENT WITH MVR IS TO PURCHASE 1,203 UNITS, WHICH IS THE UNITS THAT ARE SUBJECT TO CONDITIONAL USE HEARING, WHICH IS PENDING.
UH, BUT IN THE MEANTIME, UH, MR. SATANI WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY THEY HAVE REQUESTED A, A MEETING TO TALK ABOUT AN AMENDMENT WHICH WOULD ALLOW 'EM TO BUILD 600 UNITS, WHICH IS A DENSITY OF 3.38 UNITS PER ACRE.
UM, I WOULD SUGGEST IT PROBABLY MAKES SENSE TO WAIT UNTIL AFTER EVERYBODY HAS SPOKEN BEFORE YOU ASK QUESTIONS, BECAUSE YOU MAY ASK A QUESTION OF SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE ELSE IS GOING TO ANSWER.
UM, SO AT JUST AS AN OVERVIEW, ANY SATAN WILL DISCUSS THEIR PLANS AND WHY THEY'RE WILLING TO PROCEED WITH THE 600 UNIT PLAN.
RON KLOSS IS REALLY HERE JUST TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
UH, HE DID NOT PREPARE THE PLAN, WHICH WAS ATTACHED.
UH, IT'S NOT AN ENGINEERED PLAN, SIMPLY A SKETCH PLAN.
AND, UM, BASICALLY WHAT RON WOULD SAY AND KEN SAY, IS THAT OUR DEVELOPMENT WOULD IN NO WAY IMPACT ANY STEEP SLOPES OR ANY WETLANDS.
UH, IN ADDITION, IT WOULD HELP THE STORMWATER SITUATION IN THE AREA BECAUSE THE UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP SUBDIVISION LAND DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE REQUIRES THAT WE REDUCE DURING DEVELOPMENT A 50 YEAR STORM TO A TWO YEAR STORM.
SO IT WOULD BE AN IMPROVEMENT OVER WHAT'S THERE TODAY, MATT HAMMOND WILL DISCUSS TRAFFIC AND HE HAS EXTRAPOLATED FROM HIS TRAFFIC STUDY FOR THE 1,203 UNIT PLAN, THE IMPACT OF 600 UNITS.
AND FINALLY, UH, ERIC SEL WILL DISCUSS A DISCUSSION THAT HE HAD WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD AND TALK ABOUT AN UPCOMING MEETING WITH THE POLICE AND EMS AND FIRE PEOPLE, UH, SO THAT WE CAN BE PREPARED TO ADDRESS THOSE ITEMS AND WE'LL GO BACK TO THE BOARD.
AND SINCE WE DON'T HAVE THAT TONIGHT, JUST SO YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE LOOKING FOR ANY SORT OF RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT.
WE WOULD ASK THAT WE BE PUT ON YOUR, UM, MAY 15TH
[00:05:01]
AGENDA.WE'RE NOT GONNA DO, WE'RE GONNA LISTEN TONIGHT AND LEARN.
AND THEN, AND THEN THAT WAY BY THEN WE WILL HAVE THE ANSWERS THAT, THAT WE NEED ON THE SCHOOL AND THE POLICE.
UH, SO, AND AFTER THEY SPEAK, WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE ANYBODY TO, UH, ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
SO, READY? WHY DON'T YOU COME UP? I GUESS THAT'S ALL.
COULD YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND TELL US WHAT, WHAT YOU ROLE YOU PLAY IN THIS? YES, YOU'LL BE HAPPY TO YOU.
CAN YOU HEAR ME? THIS ONE? ALRIGHT, THAT'S FINE.
UM, GRANNY SATANI, I AM A MARKET MANAGER OF LAND WITH NVR INC.
SO, UH, I'VE BEEN WITH NVR FOR SIX AND A HALF YEARS.
BEEN AT THE INDUSTRY FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS OVERALL THAT, UM, SO SOME OF THIS IS GONNA BE REPEAT FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE, OBVIOUSLY AT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISOR MEETING A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, BUT WANTED TO GIVE EVERYBODY THE OPPORTUNITY, HEAR THE SAME INFORMATION, AND I'M SURE THERE'S SOME NEW FACES OUT HERE AS WELL.
SO FIRST OF ALL, WE APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME HERE AND HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
UM, THE, THE, THE SHORT ANSWER THAT WE GAVE LAST TIME AS TO WHY DID WE SUBMIT THIS TAX AMENDMENT IS BECAUSE WE WERE ASKED FOR AN ALTERNATE PROPOSAL TO THE 1,203 UNIT CONDITIONAL USE PLAN.
SO WHEN THAT WAS SUBMITTED, UM, WE UNDERSTOOD THERE WAS A LOT OF CONSTERNATION.
IT'S A LARGE PLAN, IT'S A VERY INTENSIVE USE.
SOME OF THE FEEDBACK THAT CAME BACK TO US THROUGH TOWNSHIP STAFF AND PROFESSIONALS WAS, IS THERE AN ALTERNATE PLAN HERE THAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER THAT HAS A LESS INTENSIVE USE, SO REDUCES THE DENSITY.
SO AFTER WORKING ON IT, COMING UP WITH SOME, SOME ALTERNATES AND GOING THROUGH A COUPLE ITERATIONS, WHICH WE DID, WE'VE ARRIVED AT THE PLAN AND THE TEXT AMENDMENT THAT WE PROPOSED TO YOU.
UM, THE, THE IDEA HERE THOUGH WAS IN, IN GOOD FAITH TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION, AT LEAST PROVIDE THE TOWNSHIP WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO DECIDE WHETHER YOU ULTIMATELY THINK THIS IS A BETTER PLAN THAN THE CONDITIONAL USE PLAN THAT'S CURRENTLY PENDING.
UM, WE RECOGNIZED THIS PLAN STILL OBVIOUSLY COMES WITH SIGN SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS, UM, AND, AND IT'S A LARGE CHANGE FOR THE COMMUNITY.
BUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE WANT TO HIGHLIGHT AND WHY WE THINK THIS IS AT LEAST WORTH CONSIDERING, AND WE THINK WE'RE COMING WITH SOMETHING THAT'S AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, LIKE I SAID, A GOOD FAITH ATTEMPT TO, UM, TO, TO COME TO SOME KIND OF COOPERATIVE AGREEMENT HERE.
SO WE'RE GOING FROM 1,203 UNITS TO 600 UNITS.
IT'S A REDUCTION OF OVER 50% OF THE DENSITY THAT'S OTHERWISE PROPOSED UNDER THE CONDITIONAL USE PLAN.
OF THOSE 600 UNITS, UH, ABOUT A HUNDRED FIFTY THREE TWENTY 5% ROUGHLY ARE STILL PROPOSED TO BE AGE RESTRICTED.
SO THOSE WOULD BE AGE RESTRICTED TO 55 PLUS, BUT THEY WOULD BE AGE RESTRICTED UNITS.
THOSE ARE WHAT YOU SEE IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT OF THE PLAN OVER THERE.
UM, ALSO PART OF THIS PROPOSAL IS THE OFFERING OF DEDICATION TO THE TOWNSHIP OF APPROXIMATELY 88 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE THAT YOU SEE.
SO EVERYTHING THAT'S WITHIN THAT RED AREA THAT'S OUTLINED THERE, UH, WE WOULD PROPOSE TO OFFER THAT TO DEDICATION TO THE TOWNSHIP WHO COULD OBVIOUSLY DETERMINE THAT YOU WANT TO ACCEPT IT OR IF NOT, IT WOULD BE PRESERVED AS PERMANENT OPEN SPACE AND, UH, OWNED AND MANAGED BY THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION TIVITY.
SO THE OTHER THINGS WE THINK THIS BRINGS, AND ERIC HAS SPOKE TO THIS A LITTLE BIT AT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING, AND WE'LL SPEAK TO IT AT GREATER LENGTH TONIGHT.
OVERALL REDUCTION IN TRAFFIC IMPACTS FROM THE CONDITIONAL USE PLAN THAT WAS PROPOSED AND, UM, SOME SIGNIFICANT TAX REVENUES AS WELL THAT, THAT COME WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY UNDER THIS PROPOSED PLAN.
SO WHAT WE HEARD AT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HEARING, UH, A FEW WEEKS AGO WAS OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS, A LOT OF CONCERNS, UM, WE'VE TAKEN THE LAST FEW WEEKS AND REALLY TRIED TO START THE PROCESS HERE TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS, COME BACK AND ANSWER SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE POSED TO US.
BUT THE BIG FOUR THAT WE HEARD WERE THE IMPACT TO SCHOOLS, THE IMPACT ON TRAFFIC, UH, THE IMPACT ON EMERGENCY SERVICES, AND THEN OVERALL STORM WARNING.
SO WHILE YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA ANSWER THOSE TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY TONIGHT, AS ED SAID, THERE'S STILL SOME ANSWERS THAT WE'RE, WE'RE WORKING ON AND WE'RE HAPPY TO COME BACK IN IN A FEW MORE WEEKS HERE AND PROVIDE FOLLOW UP.
AND OBVIOUSLY ANY OTHER QUESTIONS WE'RE ASKED TONIGHT WE'LL WORK ON.
UM, I ALSO WANNA POINT OUT THAT THIS, THIS PLAN WASN'T THE FIRST SHOT AT PROVIDING SOMETHING TO THE TOWNSHIP THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED AS AN ALTERNATE.
WE ACTUALLY, UH, THERE WAS INITIALLY SUBMITTED A 727 UNIT PLAN, UM, AND THROUGH, AGAIN, SOME ITERATIONS AND, AND FEEDBACK, UH, BOTH FROM THE TOWNSHIP AND THE PUBLIC, WE'VE REVISED IT DOWN TO THE 600 UNIT PLAN THAT YOU SEE IN FRONT OF YOU.
UM, INCLUDING, LIKE WE SAID, THE AGE RESTRICTION OF ABOUT 25% OF THE UNITS THERE.
AND ALSO INCLUDED ADDING SINGLE FAMILY HOMES TO THE PLAN IN PARTICULAR TO THE NORTHWEST OF OLD STATE ROAD.
SO WHAT WE'VE DONE THERE IS, IS KEPT ANY DEVELOPMENT ON THAT SIDE PURELY TO SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOMES.
UM, WE'VE TRIED TO CENTRALIZE THE DENSITY TOWARDS THE CENTER OF THE PROPERTY, ALSO MAINTAIN LANDSCAPE BUFFERS ON SOME OF THESE SURROUNDING AREAS.
SO AGAIN, WE, WE RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S GONNA BE PLENTY MORE COMMENTS HERE, QUESTIONS, BUT THIS HAS BEEN AN ATIVE PROCESS WHERE WE'VE TRIED TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE PRIMARY CONCERNS THAT WE HEARD.
UM, SO REALLY WHAT WE, THE CONVERSATION WE WANTED TO HAVE TONIGHT AND START, START THE PRESENTATION ON IS ULTIMATELY IT IS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING HERE, A, A, A BETTER PLAN
[00:10:01]
FOR THE TOWNSHIP THAN THE CONDITIONAL USE APPLICATION THAT'S IN AS WE SET THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.IF THE DETERMINATION IS THAT IT'S NOT, WE'RE HAPPY TO PROCEED WITH THE CONDITIONAL USE, BUT WE WANTED TO AT LEAST PRESENT THE ALTERNATIVE HERE SINCE, SINCE IT, WE, WE HAD NUMEROUS REQUESTS TO COME BACK WITH SOMETHING ELSE.
UM, BUT WHAT WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR HERE IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEVELOP A PROPERTY THAT CANNOT OTHERWISE BE DEVELOPED.
I THINK WE, WE VETTED OUT THROUGH MULTIPLE SOURCES THAT THE CONDITIONAL USE PLAN, WELL, IT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE CONDITIONAL USE PROCESS AND WE HAVE TO MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS IS A BY RIGHT USE UNDER THE EXISTING ZONING OVER THE, OVER THE PROPERTY.
SO THIS IS COMING BACK SAYING, HEY, WE, WE ARE WILLING TO COMPROMISE.
WE'RE WILLING TO LOOK AT CONCESSIONS HERE.
IT ALSO HAS TO MAKE SENSE FOR US, ULTIMATELY FOR US IN THE PROPERTY.
UM, SO ONE THING THOUGH THAT HAS BEEN CONSISTENT IN THE PLANS THAT WE'VE SHOWN IS THAT 85, 88 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE THAT WOULD BE OFFERED EITHER FOR DEDICATION TO PRESERVE.
AND AGAIN, WE'VE TRIED TO LOCATE THAT IN AREAS WHERE THE DEVELOPMENT IS LOCATED AWAY FROM EXISTING RESIDENCES TO THE LARGEST PARK THAT WE CAN ACHIEVE.
AND KEEPING THAT OPEN SPACE ALONG THE STATE ROAD SO THAT THE RESIDENCE IS, THE EXISTING RESIDENCE IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET FOR THE MOST PART, STILL HAVE VIEWS OF THAT OPEN SPACE.
UM, SO JUST QUICKLY TO RUN YOU THROUGH THE PLANE AND THEN I'LL TURN IT BACK OVER TO ED.
LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE 600 UNITS HERE, 44 SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED UNITS IN THE TWO PODS THAT YOU SEE THERE.
A HUNDRED FIFTY ONE TWO STORY CARRIAGE HOMES WAS ESSENTIALLY A WIDER TOWNHOUSE, UM, A HUNDRED SEVENTY SIX THREE STORY TOWN HOMES AND THEN FOCUSED ON THE CENTER OF THE SITE INTERNALLY, 76 STACK TOWN HOMES.
AND THEN IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT, THE 153 AGE RESTRICTED THAT WE DISCUSSED.
UM, SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS, AS WE TALKED ABOUT, WE FOCUS DENSITY TOWARDS THE IN INTERNAL PORTION OF THE SITE.
WHAT YOU DON'T SEE ON THIS PLAN, BUT WE'VE ACTUALLY BEEN HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS, IS I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY HERE FOR US TO CREATE SOME TRAIL CONNECTIONS, BOTH INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'VE DEPICTED ON THE PLAN AND OBVIOUSLY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH THE TOWNSHIP AND POSSIBLY EVEN THE COUNTY GIVEN ACROSS THE STREET, THE POTENTIAL TO TIE INTO, UH, THE EXTENSION OF THE SCHU RIVER TRAIL THAT COMES INTO THE COUNTY OPEN SPACE ACROSS THE STREET.
SO WE ALSO LOOKED AT THOSE LANDSCAPING BUFFERS AROUND THE PERIMETER OF THE PROPERTY AND THEN TRIED TO CENTRALIZE THE CIRCULATION.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HEARD, OBVIOUSLY, AND, AND, UH, MR. HAMMOND'S GONNA SPEAK TO THIS AT GREATER LENGTH IS CONCERNS OVER WHERE, WHERE, UH, BLACKROCK ROAD KIND OF PINCHES DOWN OVER THE ONE LANE BRIDGE THERE.
SO AGAIN, I KNOW THAT'S SOMETHING THAT PEN DOTS LOOKED AT AND WOULD BE PART OF OUR SCOPING WHEN WE, UH, IF WE WERE TO GET TO THE POINT THAT WE'RE REVIEWING THIS, THIS MIGHT DEPEND ON AS OPPOSED TO THE CONDITIONAL USE ALTERNATIVE.
SO WITH THAT SAID, WE GREATLY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY.
UM, I'D LIKE TO LET SOME OF OUR TEAM HERE KIND OF WALK THROUGH SOME MORE OF THE DETAILS AND THEN AGAIN, WE'RE HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, YOU TAKE QUESTIONS BACK THAT WE CAN RESEARCH A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.
BUT THAT, THAT'S THE, THE GIST OF THE PLAN AND WHY WE'RE HERE WAS REALLY TO PRESENT THAT ALTERNATIVE AND AT LEAST OPEN UP THE CONVERSATION IF YOU THINK IT'S SOMETHING BETTER THAN, THAN WHAT WAS PROPOSED UNDER THE COMMISSION USE.
ALRIGHT, MATT, AGAIN, MATT, CAN YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF IN WHAT ROLE YOU PLAY? GOOD EVENING MEMBERS.
I'M A PROFESSIONAL, UH, ENGINEER SPECIALIZING IN TRAFFIC AND TRANSPORTATION.
UM, AS FOR ALLUDED TO, UM, WE HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS PROJECT FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF OR SO.
UM, WE INITIALLY STARTED LOOKING AT, UH, THIS PROJECT FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, UM, IN EARLY 2023.
AND AS PART OF ANY TRAFFIC ANALYSIS, UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE IMPACT ON A ROADWAY, THE FIRST STEP IN THAT PROCESS IS TO ENGAGE NOT ONLY THE THE MUNICIPALITY, BUT IN THIS INSTANCE PENDOT.
UM, AND THE REASON FOR ENGAGING PENDOT IS THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TWO STATE ROADWAYS, UH, TO WHICH WE ARE PROPOSING ACCESS TO.
SO ULTIMATELY AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO MOVE FORWARD, WE'LL NEED TO OBTAIN A HIGHWAY OCCUPANCY PERMIT FROM PENNDOT AND NOT WE SATISFY, UH, ALL OF THE STANDARDS AND REQUIREMENTS BY THE TOWNSHIP, BUT ALSO THE STANDARDS AND REQUIREMENTS BY PENNDOT AS WELL.
SO WE SUBMITTED A SCOPING APPLICATION EARLY 2023 FOR THE 1,203 UNIT PLAN.
AS PART OF THAT APPLICATION, WE IDENTIFIED CERTAIN INTERSECTIONS TO INCLUDE IN THE STUDY AREA, UM, AND CERTAIN PARAMETERS WHICH WE WOULD, UH, LOOK AT AS PART OF THE FUTURE TRAFFIC STUDY.
AS PART OF THE REVIEW WE RECEIVED FROM NOT ONLY
UH, SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE TOOK INTO ACCOUNT THE INTERSECTIONS THAT WE HAD ASSUMED, UM, TO BE INCLUDED AS WELL AS THE INTERSECTIONS TO BE INCLUDED.
[00:15:01]
OF PENDO, THE TOWNSHIP, WE ENDED UP INCLUDING 15 INTERSECTIONS, UH, WITHIN THIS STUDY AREA, WHICH IS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT STUDY AREA.UM, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT I NEED TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THEM UNLESS THE, UH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION DESIRES, BUT I CAN TALK ABOUT AT LEAST THE, THE EXTREMITIES AND WHAT WE LOOKED AT.
SO, MR. HEMAN, HAVE YOU, HAVE YOU ENGAGED WITH ANTHONY YET YOU GUYS? ABSOLUTELY.
AND ANTHONY, ANDY WAS THE ONE THAT PROVIDED A REVIEW OF THE SCOPING APPLICATION, UH, EARLY ON IN THE PROCESS AND REQUESTED CERTAIN THINGS BE INCLUDED IN THE FUTURE TRAFFIC STUDY.
UM, BUT LOOKING AT THE SITE, UH, THE TOP NORTHWEST CORNER, UH, WE WENT AS FAR AS YEAGER ROAD AND SOUTH LOUIS ROAD, UH, LOOKING DOWN, SAY DOWN TO THE SOUTH OR, UH, YEAH, SOUTHEAST SIDE.
WE WENT TO HOPWOOD AND TRAP ROAD AND WE ALSO WENT DOWN TO BLACKROCK, UH, AND ROUTE 29.
OBVIOUSLY WE LOOKED AT THE INTERSECTION OF SECOND AND, UM, AND BLACKROCK ROAD ON THE FAR EXTREMITY TO THE, THE RIGHT OR LEFT, I'M SORRY.
AND THEN UP TO VAUGHN ROAD AND SECOND AVENUE.
SO WITHIN THAT AREA, THERE WERE APPROXIMATELY 15 INTERSECTIONS THAT WE LOOKED AT DURING CERTAIN TIME PERIODS.
UH, WE PREPARED A TRAFFIC ANALYSIS AS FAR THE 1,203 UNIT PLAN, WE LOOKED BUT FINALIZED.
BUT AS PART OF THAT ANALYSIS, WE LOOKED AT ON TRAFFIC WOULD OPERATE BASED ON, UH, THE MIX OF USES AS WELL AS, UM, THE TRAFFIC VOLUMES IN THE AREA.
ONE THING TO NOTE, AND, UH, ONE THING THAT WAS BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION VERY EARLY ON IN THE PROCESS, NOT ONLY BY ANTHONY OR BY PENDOT, WAS THE TOWNSHIP'S DESIRE AND THEIR PROGRESSION OF CONCEPT PLANS, DESIGN PLANS FOR CHANGES TO THE INTERSECTION OF SECOND AVENUE AND BLACKROCK ROAD.
AND THAT'S DEPICTED ON THIS SKETCH ON THIS PLAN RIGHT HERE ON THE SCREEN THAT SHOWS A SINGLE LANE ROUNDABOUT.
UM, THE INTERSECTION, IF YOU CAN SEE, IS ACTUALLY, THIS IS BLACKROCK ROAD HERE, DRE PELVIS, SECOND AVENUE HERE.
AND YOU'LL SEE THAT THE ROUNDABOUT ACTUALLY PUSHES THIS INTERSECTION A LITTLE BIT FURTHER EAST.
AS PART OF THIS, AS PART OF THIS PLANNING, THERE ARE TWO CONCEPTS CURRENTLY.
UM, TWO CONCEPTS WE'RE PREPARED IN REGARDS TO THIS.
ROUNDABOUT INCLUSIVE WAS WIDENING ALONG BLACKROCK ROAD TO TAKE THAT NARROW BRIDGE THAT EXISTS OVER THE CREEK AND WIDEN THAT, REPLACE THAT BRIDGE AND WIDEN OUT SO THAT IT CAN CARRY TWO LANES OF TRAFFIC ACROSS AT THE SAME TIME.
SO THAT'S ALL ENCOMPASSED WITHIN THIS AREA HERE.
SO NOT ONLY IS THE INTERSECTION BEING PUSHED EAST, BUT THERE'S WHY BEING PROPOSED AND THAT BRIDGE REPLACE IT OVER THE CREEK THERE.
I KNOW, SO IT WAS PART OF THAT TRAFFIC STUDY WE HAD LOOKED AT, UM, HOW THE INTERSECTIONS OPERATE TODAY AND WHAT WE ANTICIPATE THEM TO LOOK LIKE IN THE FUTURE, WHAT ROADWAY ROADS WE NEED TO PROVIDE.
UH, FAST FORWARD TO TONIGHT, UM, OBVIOUSLY WE ARE IN FRONT OF YOU FOR A DIFFERENT, UH, DEVELOPMENT SCENARIO, INCLUSIVE OF 600, UH, RESIDENTIAL UNITS.
UH, WE TOOK THE, THE, THE BONES, THE PIECE OF WHAT WE DID FOR THE 1,203 UNIT STUDY AND LOOKED AT, UM, THE IMPACTS THAT THE 600 UNIT DEVELOPMENT WOULD HAVE ON THE ROADWAY NETWORK.
I WOULD SAY FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, UM, THAT THE 600 UNIT PLAN GENERATES LESS TRAFFIC, BUT THE PLAN WITH 1,203 UNITS, UM, EVEN THOUGH THE 1,203 UNITS WERE ALL AGE RESTRICTED AND ABOUT 75% OF THE PROPOSED UNITS IN THE MARKET RATE, UH, WE STILL WERE ABLE TO SHOW THAT THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC GENERATED WAS LESS, NOT ONLY OVER THE COURSE OF THE DAY, BUT ALSO DURING THE PEAK HOUR STUDY, WHICH ARE TYPICALLY THE A AND P AND PEAK HOURS ON TYPICAL WEEKDAY.
UM, SO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT IN TERMS OF ROADWAY, PRETTY MUCH OBVIOUSLY, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME GRADING ISSUES, UH, SITE LINE ISSUES THAT EXIST ALONG BLACKROCK ROAD AND SECOND AVENUE, UH, THAT WE WOULD LOOK TO ADDRESS.
UH, WE'VE LOOKED AT, UM, TRAFFIC SIGNAL TIMING ADJUSTMENTS.
WE'VE LOOKED AT, UH, IMPROVEMENTS, UH, TO THE INTERSECTION OF, UM, SOUTH LEWIS ROAD AND UH, JAGER ROAD, UM, TO PROVIDE WAGON THERE FOR AN ADDITIONAL NORTHBOUND RIGHT TURN LANE.
UH, WE'VE LOOKED AT A NUMBER OF OTHER, UM, ASPECTS AS FAR AS THE ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS ARE CONCERNED, BUT ONE OF THE, PROBABLY THE BIGGEST IMPROVEMENT IS THE FACT THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO AN IMPACT FEE OF NEARLY $900,000, WHICH WOULD GO A LONG WAY IN, UH, MOVING, UH, FORTH THE TOWNSHIP PROPOSED ROUNDABOUT PLAN AND THE WIDENING OF THE BRIDGE ALONG, UH, BLACKROCK ROAD.
WE WERE ALSO ASKED AT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING, UM, IF
[00:20:01]
WE HAD LOOKED AT THE IMPACTS OF THIS DEVELOPMENT IN PHOENIX BOROUGH.UM, AND MY ANSWER AT THAT POINT WAS WE HAD NOT.
UM, BUT I ALSO DID NOT GO INTO DETAIL IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF INTERSECTIONS AND THE BREADTH OF THE STUDY AREA THAT WE HAD INCLUDED.
UM, BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY IN REGARDS TO THE IMPACT ON PHOENIXVILLE, AND I THINK MY RESPONSE, UH, TO ONE OF THE RESIDENTS QUESTIONS WAS THE, I THINK WE CAN ALL ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE ARE TRAFFIC ISSUES WITHIN THE BOROUGH.
THE BOROUGH HAS CONSTRAINTS, UM, THEY'VE ALLOWED SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT TO OCCUR, AND THERE'S LIMITED ROADWAY PROOF THAT IT CAN BE DONE WITHIN THE BOROUGH.
I BELIEVE, UH, THE BOROUGH STILL HAS ON THE BOOKS THAT EAST WEST CONNECTOR, NORTH SIDE OF THE BOROUGH, UH, ALL DAY THAT THAT HAS NOT, UH, COME TO FRUITION YET.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS ALSO ABLE TO DO IS GO THROUGH THE PHOENIX O BOROUGH COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND LOOK AT SOME OF THE, UH, IDEALS, UH, THAT THEY WERE LOOKING AT WITH RESPECT TO TRAFFIC AND TRANSPORTATION.
UM, I WOULD NOTE THAT THE INTERSECTION OF, UH, BLACKROCK ROAD AND SECOND AVENUE, THE NEXT CLOSEST INTERSECTION WHEN YOU GET INTO THE GARROW IS AT ONE 13 AND FILLMORE.
IT'S ABOUT 1.6 MILES AWAY, UM, FROM THE SUBJECT PROPERTY.
THEN ONCE YOU GET A LITTLE BIT FURTHER IN AND CROSS OVER THE BRIDGE, YOU GET INTO THE BOROUGH PROPER, IT'S ABOUT 2.3 MILES.
SO IT'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT DISTANCE TO OUR DEVELOPMENT
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, UM, THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT THE BOROUGH NEEDS TO DEAL WITH WITH RESPECT TO THE TRAFFIC CONGESTION THAT HAS OCCURRED OVER THE YEARS AS A RESULT OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT.
JUST CURIOUS, WHEN THEY DID ALL THEIR DEVELOPMENT, THE BOROUGH, DID THEY, UH, WONDER HOW IT IMPACTED US?
IT WAS SORT OF RHETORICAL, I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE GONNA DO, MUNICIPALITIES.
I JUST WONDERED IF WE, IF WE ASKED THAT QUESTION TO THEM.
SO, UM, BUT I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A NUMBER OF THE OTHER, THE, THE RAIL THAT THEY'RE PLANNING, UH, THE RAIL STOP, UH, THEY'RE LOOKING TO CREATE 15 MINUTE COMMUNITIES, WHICH IS, UH, BASICALLY DEFINED AS YOU CAN WALK ANYWHERE ANY OF YOUR NEEDS WITHIN 15 MINUTES WITHIN A CAR.
BUT REGARDLESS, IT WAS, WE LOOKED AT THAT FROM A PERSPECTIVE OF THE TRAFFIC THAT WOULD BE GENERATED BY THE DEVELOPMENT AT THIS INTERSECTION OF BLACKROCK IN SECOND AVENUE.
UM, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO SATISFY THE TOWNSHIP REQUIREMENTS AND ORDINANCES, UM, AS WELL AS PENDO ORDINANCES.
I'M CONFIDENT THAT WE CAN, UM, OBVIOUSLY IT'S GOING TO BE A PROCESS THAT WE NEED TO GO THROUGH.
IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE COORDINATION WITH MYSELF, MR. VALENCIA.
IT'S GONNA REQUIRE COORDINATION WITH MYSELF AND PENDO REQUIRE COORDINATION BETWEEN THE THREE OF US, UM, AS WE MOVE FORWARD THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
BUT IT'S, IT'S SIMILAR PROCESS THAT WE CAN GO THROUGH ON ANY DEVELOPMENT.
UM, BUT BASED ON WHAT I'VE SEEN SO FAR AND THE ANALYSIS THAT WE'VE CONDUCTED, I AM CONFIDENT THAT, UH, THAT WE CAN MAKE THIS WORK.
IT'D BE A BENEFIT, UH, TO THE COMMUNITY, AT LEAST FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE.
MATT, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY FEWER TRIPS PER DAY THEY WOULD BE WITH THIS VERSUS 1,203 UNITS? I THINK THE NUMBER WAS ABOUT 300, 325, 3 50 LESS NEW TRIPS A DAY.
UH, WE COMPARE THE 1,203 UNITS TO 600 UNITS.
I KNOW IT SAID HOLD THE END, BUT I DON'T WANNA FORGET.
UM, I DIDN'T, DID YOU MENTION OLD STATE ROAD? YES, SIR.
UH, WHAT, WHAT'S THE IMPROVEMENT STATE ARE YOU SAYING? SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE THE IMPROVEMENTS ALONG OLD STATE ROAD REALLY RELATE TO REGRADING AND SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS FROM A SITE DISTANCE PERSPECTIVE.
UM, THAT'S WHAT WE FOUND PRELIMINARILY, UH, BASED ON THE, THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT, I WOULD NOTE THAT THERE ARE SIX PROPOSED ACCESS POINTS, SURVEY DEVELOPMENT SPREAD OUT.
WE HAVE TWO ON OLD STATE ROAD.
WE HAVE ONE HERE ON SECOND AVENUE.
WE HAVE ONE TWO ON BLACKROCK, AND THEN WE HAVE, UH, THIS ACCESS, UH, OVER HERE ON TRACK ROAD, UH, AS WELL.
WE WERE ASKED, UH, BY THE SUPERVISORS TO LOOK INTO THE IMPACT ON THE TOWNSHIP FOR POLICE FIRE EMS SCHOOL.
AND WE HAD CERTAIN INFORMATION AND ERIC ALSO WILL TELL YOU IN A MINUTE, DID SPEAK WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND HAS A MEETING SET UP WITH THE POLICE VIA EMS. ERIC, WHY DON'T YOU TELL PEOPLE WHAT YOUR BAND NAME AGAIN? ERIC? YES.
I'M A LAND PLANNER, UH, WORKED ON THE COMMUNITY IMPACT ASSESSMENT HERE.
[00:25:01]
SOME OF THE FISCAL IMPACTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PLAN AT THE SUPERVISOR'S MEETING, UM, WITH INFORMATION I HAD AVAILABLE TO ME REGARDING PROJECTING POPULATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT.UM, AND MY INITIAL CUT AT THE ANALYSIS USED DEMOGRAPHIC MULTIPLIERS THAT CAME FROM MONTGOMERY COUNTY, UH, THAT WERE PRODUCED IN, I BELIEVE, UM, 2012, 2016, AND PUBLISHED IN 2016.
UM, WE WERE ASKED AT THE SUPERVISORS MEETING TO TRY TO OBTAIN MORE LOCAL, UH, POPULATION INFORMATION AND GET SOME INFORMATION SPECIFIC TO THE SPRING FORD, UH, SCHOOL DISTRICT.
SO I CONTACTED THE SUPERINTENDENT, UM, TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY ENROLLMENT PROJECTIONS THAT CONTAIN DEMOGRAPHIC MULTIPLIERS OR PROJECTING THE IMPACTS FROM, UH, DEVELOPMENT THAT'S CURRENTLY IN THE PIPELINE FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THEIR ENROLLMENT PROJECTIONS.
UM, THAT INFORMATION WASN'T AVAILABLE ON THE WEBSITE.
UM, OFTENTIMES I'LL TRY TO FIND THAT WHEN I CAN.
SO I, I USED WHAT WAS AVAILABLE TO ME IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY, UH, MULTIPLIERS, UH, SINCE OBTAINED THAT ENROLLMENT DEMOGRAPHIC, UH, ANALYSIS REPORT THAT WAS PRODUCED BY SUNDANCE ASSOCIATES FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IN 2022.
AND, UM, THEY USED MORE LOCALLY DERIVED AND MORE CURRENT MULTIPLIERS THAT WERE DEVELOPED BY ECONSULT SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT STUDY.
UM, AND WE PLUGGED THOSE INTO OUR MODEL.
UH, WE HAD ORIGINALLY PROJECTED THERE WOULD BE 126, UH, PUBLIC SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN RESIDING IN THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT, UM, USING THE ECONSULT MULTIPLIERS IN THE ENROLLMENT PROJECTIONS REPORT.
UM, THAT NUMBER GREW TO 234 PUBLIC SCHOOL AGE STUDENTS.
UM, AND WE'RE WORKING NOW TO UNDERSTAND HOW THAT MIGHT, UH, IMPACT THE ENROLLMENT PROJECTIONS.
UM, IT'S INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT THE ENROLLMENT PROJECTIONS REPORT IDENTIFIES THAT THERE IS A, UH, PROJECTED TO BE A DECLINE IN ENROLLMENTS OVER THE NEXT, UH, SEVEN TO 10 YEARS IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
UH, EVEN ACCOUNTING FOR, UM, DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE IN THE PIPELINE.
AT THE TIME THE REPORT WAS DRAFTED, IT DID, IT DID NOT INCLUDE ANYTHING FOR PARKHOUSE.
UM, SO THESE WOULD BE ADDITIONAL STUDENTS ON TOP OF WHAT'S PROJECTED IN THERE.
WE'RE TRYING TO ASCERTAIN HOW PARKHOUSE WOULD AFFECT THOSE ENROLLMENTS, AND WE EXPECT TO HAVE MORE DETAIL ON THAT.
ON THE 15TH, UH, I DID A PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS, UH, USING THAT DEVISED, UH, SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN NUMBER AND WE'RE STILL SEEING A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT NET POSITIVE FISCAL IMPACT TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
UH, COST OBVIOUSLY WENT UP 'CAUSE THERE'S MORE SCHOOL AGE KIDS, UH, USING THE ESI MULTIPLIERS.
UM, BUT THERE'S STILL SIGNIFICANT TAX REVENUES AND OTHER REVENUES OFFSET THEM.
UH, SO EVEN UNDER THE REVISED SCENARIO, WE'RE STILL PROJECTING THERE TO BE, UM, AN ANNUAL NET FISCAL BENEFIT TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, UH, TOTALING OVER $2.4 MILLION A YEAR.
UM, WE'RE STILL WORKING TO SEE WHAT THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF ENROLLMENT IN THE SCHOOLS.
UM, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'LL HAVE FOR YOU NEXT TIME.
ALONG WITH, UM, SO MUCH MORE DETAILED INFORMATION ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY, FIRE, EMS AND POLICE.
CAN YOU SAY WHO YOU'RE GOING TO BE MEETING WITH? UM, I HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME THAT I SPOKE TO.
I HAVE IT CHIEF WEISEL FIRE EMS, CHIEF GEORGE GIL ANO AND CHIEF FREEMAN AND LIEUTENANT SHEAN.
UH, THAT'S SCHEDULED TOMORROW MORNING.
UH, WE HAVE A TEAMS MEETING, UH, SCHEDULED TO DISCUSS MATTERS WITH PUBLIC SAFETY AND WHAT THE IMPACTS MAY LIKELY BE FROM A SERVICE DEMAND STANDPOINT AND POSSIBLY EVEN A CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT STANDPOINT.
SO ON THE 15TH, HE'LL BE THE MAIN WITNESS 'CAUSE WE'LL HAVE ALL THIS NEW INFORMATION.
BUT JUST TO BE CLEAR, YOU SAID YOU CONTACTED THE SUPERINTENDENT, BUT YOU ARE QUOTING, UH, OUTSIDE SOURCES.
SUPERINTENDENT DIDN'T GIVE YOU ANY PROJECTIONS OR DIDN'T GET BACK TO YOU OR WHAT? NO, THE SUPERINTENDENT DID GET BACK TO ME PROMPTLY, UM, AND PROVIDED ME WITH THE REPORT, THE MOST RECENT MENT PROTECTOR REPORT THAT THEY HAVE ON FILE.
AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE USING, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE USING IN THEIR, IN THEIR PLANNING.
SO WE'RE COMPARING, WE THINK WE'RE COMPARING APPLE TO APPLE.
THAT'S WHAT I, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET TO.
HE, HE, I, I HEARD YOU SAY OUTSIDE SOURCES, BUT I DIDN'T HEAR YOU SAY THAT THEY WERE USING THAT.
SO MAKE SURE YOU GUYS WERE USING THE SAME NUMBERS.
[00:30:01]
WAS COMMISSIONED BY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.THAT'S ALL WE HAVE TO PRESENT.
WE'RE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
COULD, COULD I JUST HAVE A CLARIFICATION, UM, THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE ENROLLMENT THAT YOU USE, THE MULTIPLIERS IS JUST FOR PUBLIC SCHOOL, UM, ENROLLMENT, OR DOES THEIR MULTIPLIER USE FOR THE DISTRICT INCLUDE PRIVATE SCHOOLS? THEY, IT'S JUST PUBLIC SCHOOL MULTIPLIERS THAT THEIR ENROLLMENT PROJECTIONS USED.
UM, AND, UH, I'LL ASK THE BOARD QUESTIONS GUYS.
I ASK A FEW ALREADY, BUT ANYBODY ELSE, JERRY, UH, ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS OR, UH, CLARIFICATIONS? ONE MINOR QUESTION.
I KNOW YOU, YOU TALKED ABOUT, UH, STREET IMPROVEMENTS OR I GUESS IT WAS MATT AND THE TRAFFIC SIDE OF THINGS, EVEN TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE VARIOUS INTERSECTIONS AND, AND WIDENING OF, UH, BLACKROCK, UH, NOTHING RECOMMENDED FOR OLD STATE ROAD, BUT THESE ADDITIONAL ACCESS POINTS AND, AND WHATNOT.
SO AT THIS POINT, AS PART OF THE TRAFFIC SITE'S BEEN DONE TO DATE, THERE ARE NO PROPOSED IMPROVEMENTS OF GLIDDEN OLD STATE ROAD AT THIS MOMENT.
OBVIOUSLY, AS I MENTIONED, UH, THIS IS A PROCESS.
UH, THIS IS THE VERY EARLY STAGES OF THAT PROCESS AND IT'LL BE SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD CONTINUE TO COORDINATE WITH THE TOWNSHIP, UH, VIS-A-VIS, UH, MR. VALENCIA, AS WELL AS PENDO TO DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE, UH, APPROPRIATE IMPROVEMENT PACKAGE IS SUBMITTING ANY IMPACT.
BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW, FROM AN IMPACT STANDPOINT, WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY IMPROVEMENTS ON OLD STATE ROAD.
HOW ABOUT YOU, ANTHONY? YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING TO THAT AT THIS POINT, OR ARE IT'S TOO EARLY AGAIN? YEAH, IT'S TOO, TOO EARLY FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE.
I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY OF THE INFORMATION SO, WELL, WE HAVE A LOT OF FAITH THAT YOU WORK WITH ANTHONY, SO I'M SURE THAT WHEN THAT TIME COMES, ANTHONY WILL HAVE SOME GOOD NEWS FOR US.
I'M NOT SURE THE BEST REPRESENTATIVE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION.
UM, WAS THERE ANY CLEAR PLANNING FACTORS THAT WENT INTO THE DECISION TO DO 25%, UM, OF THE UM, 55 AND ABOVE? YEAH, YOU WANT THAT? YEAH, I CAN, I CAN SPEAK TO THAT.
SO YEAH, ONE OF THEM WAS JUST THE, THE PHYSICAL BOUNDARIES OF THE SITE AND THE GEOMETRY OF THE SITE.
SO THE, THE IDEA WAS WE COULD CREATE KIND OF ITS OWN NEIGHBORHOOD DOWN THERE WITH THE AGE RESTRICTED UNITS ON, ON THE SOUTHEAST SIDE.
THE OTHER PIECE OF IT FOR US AS WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS WAS, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY IF WE WERE GOING TO REDUCE THE DENSITY SIGNIFICANTLY FROM 1,230, HOW DO WE OPEN UP A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES SO THAT WE TRULY CAN APPEAL TO EVERYBODY FROM FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS TO MOVE DOWN BUYERS.
SO THE IDEA WAS THAT THAT 25% REPRESENTS ROUGHLY THAT PROPORTION OF THE, THE KIND OF SPECTRUM OF HOME BUYERS WE WOULD SEE ALL THE WAY, LIKE I SAID, FROM YOUNG PROFESSIONAL FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS UP TO MOVE DOWN BUYERS.
SO IT WAS A COMBINATION OF HOW THE SITE LENT ITSELF TO ALSO UNDERSTANDING WE WERE TRYING TO PRESERVE ABOUT 50% OF THE SITE AS OPEN SPACE SO THAT IN ORDER TO DO THAT WE COULD CREATE THAT KIND OF NATURAL SEPARATION OF THE AGE RESTRICT SECTION FROM THERE.
AND THEN, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, TRYING TO GET A RELATIVELY EVEN MIX OF DIFFERENT PRODUCTS THAT IN THERE.
SO THERE'S NO, THERE WAS NO, UH, IMPACT OF HOW CLOSE IT IS TO PARKHOUSE.
SO YOU COULD JUST LIKE WALKING ACROSS THE STREET OR ANYTHING, NOTHING LIKE THAT? NO, NOT FROM THAT SENSE IN TERMS OF, AGAIN, IT, IT KIND OF LENT ITSELF, WE THOUGHT WHEN WE LOOKED AT IT TO PUT, PUTTING THOSE UNITS DOWN THERE AND AGAIN, ALLOWING YOU, IF YOU'LL SEE WE HAVE AN AMENITY SPACE DOWN THERE AS WELL.
IT'S A, A LITTLE TOUGH TO SEE, BUT IT'S KIND OF THAT MAIN BOULEVARD THAT COMES IN ULTIMATELY LOCATES ITSELF THERE.
BUT NO, FROM IN TERMS OF PROXIMITY TO THE ACTUAL FACILITY, THAT WASN'T.
NOW WE TALKED ABOUT ANALYSIS FOR TRAFFIC.
HAS THERE BEEN ANY, UM, ANALYSIS ON PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC SPECIFICALLY TO OUR, OUR BEAUTIFUL PARK TO THE SOUTH THERE, THIS CONNECTION TO THE, THE TRAIL AND THE, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE THOUGHT THAT THE RESIDENCE, HOW WILL THEY ACCESS, UM, THAT WOULD BE BY VE VEHICULAR, WILL THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO WALK TO THE PARK, IMPACT ON TRAFFIC, ET CETERA? SO AS PART OF THE TRAFFIC COUNTS THAT I MENTIONED, WE CONDUCTED OBVIOUSLY, UH, WHEN OBVIOUSLY, BUT THOSE COUNTS INCLUDED ANY, UH, RECORDATION OF ANY PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC.
I WOULD SAY THOSE COUNTS WERE TAKEN IN JANUARY, SO THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC IN THE, IN THAT MONTH WAS PROBABLY LOW.
UM, BUT I THINK, UH, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, AND I THINK IT WAS, RENNY HAD MENTIONED THIS VERY EARLY ON IN THIS PROCESS, IS ONE OF THE THOUGHTS THAT THE TEAM HAS IS THAT HOW TO PROVIDE FOR TRAILS NOT ONLY INTERIOR, BUT EXTERIOR TO TRY TO CONNECT TO CERTAIN AMENITIES WITHIN THE TOWNSHIP.
[00:35:01]
I DON'T HAVE A DIRECT ANSWER FOR YOU, IT'S MORE OF A WORK IN PROGRESS, IT WOULD BE MORE OF A COLLABORATION BETWEEN, UH, THE TOWNSHIP AS WELL AS OUR GROUP ON WHAT COULD BE DONE AND WHERE ARE THE PRIORITIES FOR SUCH CONNECTIONS IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN OBVIOUSLY HELP WITH.YEAH, I CAN TELL YOU FROM, FROM AN OVERALL DESIGN PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING WE'D BE INTERESTED IN, IN TUS DISCUSSING.
FRANKLY, THE REASON WE HAVEN'T SHOWN IT ON THERE IS JUST BECAUSE IT REQUIRES A LOT OF COORDINATION AND WE DIDN'T WANT TO KIND OF MAKE CERTAIN ASSUMPTIONS ON THAT.
BUT I THINK THERE'S A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY NOT JUST TO CONNECT, YOU KNOW, THE POTENTIAL FUTURE RESIDENTS OF THIS COMMUNITY, OF, OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THE SURROUNDING AREAS AS WELL.
AGAIN, BECAUSE YOU HAVE THAT TRAIL HEAD IN THE SCREW RIVER TRAIL THERE AND BECAUSE OF THE FRONTAGE THAT THIS PROPERTY HAS, UM, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING WE WOULD TAKE A LOOK AT.
AND YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THERE'S OPPORTUNITY TO BRING CERTAIN TRAIL CONNECTIONS THROUGH THE DEVELOPED PORTION OF THE PROPERTY.
AND THEN AGAIN, IF THE TOWNSHIP IS INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT CONNECTIONS THROUGH WHAT WE WOULD LOOK AT AS THE OPEN SPACE, WE COULD INCORPORATE THOSE AS WELL.
BUT WE REALLY THOUGHT THAT WAS THE OPPORTUNITY WAS AGAIN, TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION ABOUT, AS MATT SAID, WHERE ARE THOSE CONNECTION POINTS AND, AND ULTIMATELY WHERE ARE THE POINTS ON, YOU KNOW, THE NORTH NORTHWEST SIDE WHERE WE'D WANT TO CREATE THOSE CONNECTIONS.
I THINK WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING YOU GET REALLY LOOK AT HARD.
WELL, UM, THE AREA ON THE OLD STATE ROAD AND HENER, IS THAT JUST SINGLE TIMELINE THAT YOU'RE SHOWING? THAT'S IT.
AND RON, DO YOU RECALL HOW MANY, UH, YOU THINK IT WAS 20? THERE WAS 1919 UP IN THERE, THAT CORNER OF THE 44 TOES.
AND AGAIN, THAT WAS IN RESPONSE TO SOME OF THE FEEDBACK WE GOT THAT REALLY THE PREFERENCE WAS TO SEE THAT KEPT A SINGLE FAMILY TO MORE CLOSELY IN LINE WITH THE EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS THERE AS OPPOSED TO THE OTHER SIDE.
ANYTHING ELSE, GUYS? UH, ADA IS IT FAIR ED TO YOU, ED, IS IT FAIR TO ASSUME THAT THE 1200 THREES OFF THE TABLE AND THIS IS THE DEAL WE'RE WORKING ON THIS? NO,
WE, WE, I THINK, AND, AND MR. CO CAN CORRECT ME, I THINK THAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO TRY TO SCHEDULE THE CONDITIONAL USE HEARING FOR MAY 30TH.
AND IF THE BOARD SHOULD DECIDE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS SHOULD DECIDE TO ADOPT OUR PROPOSED ORDINANCE, THEN THAT'S OFF THE TABLE.
IF IT'S NOT STILL ON THE TABLE.
AND I, THAT'S, I TRIED, I GOT MY POINT FROM OKAY.
UH, PUBLIC, UH, PLEASE COME UP.
UH, YEAH, I WAS GONNA SAY, YEAH, JUST PUT IT OVER THERE AND ONE, THERE'S ONE THERE.
UH, PUBLIC, UH, PLEASE COME UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND UH, ADDRESS AND UH, PLEASE ASK YOUR QUESTIONS.
I WAS GONNA MAKE SURE IT'S STILL ON.
MARK CONLEY, 2 0 9 MONTGOMERY AVENUE IN OAKS.
UM, I'M ACTUALLY WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE TRAILS.
UM, IN 1989 PHOENIXVILLE, WE CHARTERED A NONPROFIT CALLED THE PHOENIX IRON CANAL AND TRAIL ASSOCIATION.
SO FOR 25 YEARS, 35 YEARS, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THE GREENWAY THROUGH PHOENIXVILLE AND MONTGOMERY AND CHESTER COUNTY AND MONTGOMERY COUNTY IN THE NINETIES CREATED A CONCEPT CALLED THE SKU LOOP, WHICH YOU MAY NOT KNOW, BUT YOU SEE MOST OF IT IN PLACE.
IT'S THE TRAIL THAT COMES UP THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY SIDE AND ENDS AT THE FARM.
AND THEN WITH THE BROKEN TRAIL SECTION, YOU CAN NAVIGATE ACROSS THE BRIDGE TO THE BOAT LAUNCH AND THEN PICK UP THE CHESTER COUNTY TRAIL.
UM, THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT ASSET FOR THIS COMMUNITY TO GET OUT OF THEIR CARS AND GET INTO THE SPACE AND SUPPORT PUBLIC ACCESS.
SO I WOULD HOPE THE DEVELOPER UNDERSTANDS THAT THERE IS A STATE CLASS, MAYBE WORLD CLASS TRAIL THAT WE NEED HELP WITH, WHERE YOU ARE GONNA BE PROPOSING 600 HOMES.
SO I REALLY ENCOURAGE THE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION, THE DEVELOPER TO START A CONVERSATION THAT MIGHT INCLUDE MONTGOMERY COUNTY BECAUSE THE ACCESS, SOME OF THESE ITEMS ARE ON MONTGOMERY COUNTY PROPERTY PLUS WITHIN THE TRAFFIC, AS MANY OF YOU ARE AWARE THAT BRIDGE CURRENTLY IS NOT
[00:40:01]
OUTFITTED FOR RESIDENTIAL OR FOR, UH, PEDESTRIAN, PEDESTRIAN PASSAGE.SO I REALLY THINK THAT THIS IS A BIG ITEM FOR THIS TO BE AN ISLAND.
IT'S UH, NO GOOD FOR ANYBODY FOR IT TO CONNECT EVERYTHING.
SO THAT WOULD BE MY COMMENT FOR THIS EVENING.
NEXT, CAN YOU JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE? SURE.
UH, IT'S NOT ON, OH, IS IT ON? YOU JUST HAVE TO HOLD IT ABOUT THAT FAR AWAY FROM YOUR MOUTH.
SO WITH THE TRAFFIC STUDY, CAN WE GET A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION? CAN WE GET A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHEN IT WAS DONE, IF IT WAS DURING THE WEEK, PEAK TRAFFIC TIMES SEVEN O'CLOCK WHEN PEOPLE ARE LEAVING FIVE O'CLOCK WHEN THEY'RE COMING HOME? BECAUSE YOU, I THINK YOUR OVERALL COMMENT WAS IT WILL HELP IMPROVE THE TRAFFIC FLOW, BUT TO PUT THAT MANY HOMES AND TO HAVE THAT CONCENTRATION HITTING THOSE TIMES, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND KIND OF HOW THAT WORKS.
SO AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WHEN WE INITIALLY LOOKED AT PREPARING A TRAFFIC STUDY, WE CONSULTED WITH THE TOWNSHIP TRAFFIC ENGINEER AS WELL AS PENN ON TO DETERMINE THE SCOPE OF THE STUDY, THE TIME PERIODS, UH, WHAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN A FUTURE TRAFFIC STUDY BASED ON THE 1,203 UNIT PLAN.
SO AS I MENTIONED, UH, UPON CONSULTATION THERE WAS 15 INTERSECTIONS IDENTIFIED, WHICH WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE TRAFFIC SETTING.
UH, THE TRAFFIC COUNTS WERE CONDUCTED IN JANUARY.
UH, THEY WERE CONDUCTED DURING A TYPICAL WEEKDAY, WHETHER IT WAS A TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, OR THURSDAY.
I DON'T RECALL OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
UM, BUT THEY WERE ALSO CONDUCTED DURING THE PEAK HOURS OF TRAFFIC.
UH, THE A AND PEAKS, WHICH TYPICALLY RUN BETWEEN SIX AND 9:00 AM ON THE PM PEAKS, WHICH TYPICALLY RUN BETWEEN THREE 30 AND 6:30 PM.
SO WHAT WE DO IS WE RECORD THE DATA DURING THOSE TIME PERIODS AND THEN WE DETERMINE THE HIGHEST HOUR WITHIN THOSE PEAK HOURS.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE UTILIZE FOR ALL OF OUR ANALYSIS WITHIN THE STUFF.
SO THE HIGHEST HOUR OF TRAFFIC IN THE MORNING OCCURS BETWEEN SEVEN 30 AND EIGHT 30.
THAT'S WHAT WE UTILIZE FOR THE ANALYSIS MOVING FORWARD.
AND IF THE HIGHEST HOUR IN THE AFTERNOON OCCURS BETWEEN FIVE AND SIX, THAT'S THE ANALYSIS WE USE.
UM, OR THAT'S THE DATA THAT WE USE AND THEN WE SUPER IMPOSE ON TOP OF THAT AND THE OTHER DEVELOPMENTS IN THE AREA, WHICH WE MAY THINK COULD AFFECT THOSE INTERSECTIONS.
UH, WE LOOK AT JUST GENERAL GROWTH IN TRAFFIC, UM, DUE TO UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES, JUST GENERAL GROWTH THAT YOU FIND.
UM, AND THEN WE ALSO, ON TOP OF THAT, SUPERIMPOSED TRAFFIC ASSOCIATED WITH THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT.
AS I'VE MENTIONED, THERE ARE 600 RESIDENTIAL UNITS OF THEM APPROXIMATELY ARE AGE RESTRICTED UNITS.
UM, THERE'S BEEN NUMEROUS STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE OVER THE YEARS ON AGE RESTRICTED TYPE DEVELOPMENTS.
AND WHEN THEY PEAK IN TERMS OF TRAFFIC, YOU DON'T TYPICALLY, UH, YOU DON'T TYPICALLY SEE THE PEAKS OF THOSE DEVELOPMENTS OCCURRING, UH, DURING THE SAME MORNING COMMUTER AND EVENING COMMUTER PEAKS WHERE YOU DON'T SEE AS MUCH TRAFFIC ASSOCIATED THOSE DEVELOPMENTS.
UM, BUT IT IS MY JOB AND I'M TASKED WITH MR. VALENCIA ATTEST TO THIS, I'M TASKED WITH SHOWING THAT BASED ON THE STANDARDS SET FORTH BY THE TOWNSHIP OF THE STANDARDS SET FORTH BY PENTAGON, THAT I'M REQUIRED TO NOT ONLY MITIGATE THE IMPACT OF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT, BUT THE HOPE IS TO ALSO IMPROVE THE TRAFFIC FLOW THROUGH THE AREA.
I WOULD TELL YOU THAT THE INTERSECTION HAS THE, THE, WHEN WE LOOKED AT ALL 15 INTERSECTIONS, ONE OF THE WORST INTERSECTIONS OUT OF THOSE 15 INTERSECTIONS IS THE INTERSECTION OF BLACKROCK ROAD AND SECOND AVENUE.
UM, AND AGAIN, AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT PROPOSED AT THAT INTERSECTION, WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE, UH, BEING THE APPLICANT WHERE MY FIRM CAME UP WITH, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE TOWNSHIP HAD LOOKED AT IN THE PAST TO, UH, TO IMPROVE THAT INTERSECTION AND IMPROVE THE SAFETY, IMPROVE THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC, UH, IMPROVE THAT EXISTING NARROW BRIDGE.
SO THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WE'VE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.
UM, WE TRIED TO DESIGN THE DEVELOPMENT OBVIOUSLY TO TAKE THAT FUTURE AND MOVE IT INTO ACCOUNT.
AND WE ALSO, BASED ON THE TOWNSHIP REQUIREMENTS, WE ALSO HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF FUNDING THAT WE CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
AND THEN IF I HAD TO GUESS, I WOULD SAY MOST OF THOSE FUNDS WOULD LIKELY GO TOWARDS THE ROUND FACT.
UM, SO AGAIN, VERY EARLY STAGES.
THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF THAT I STILL NEED TO DO.
THERE'S A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS I NEED TO HAVE A LOT OF COORDINATION NEEDS WITH HER.
BUT JUST BECAUSE MY TRAFFIC STUDY SAYS
[00:45:01]
SOMETHING DOESN'T NEED, IT'S THE END.IT'S GOTTA BE APPROVED, REVIEWED, AND APPROVED BY THE TOWNSHIP PROFESSIONAL, IT'S GOTTA BE REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY, UH, BEFORE THAT BEFORE UH, WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH, UM, PUTTING A SHOVEL ON THE GROUND AND PROVIDING ACCESS TO.
KRISTEN TROUTMAN 1320 BLACKROCK ROAD.
UM, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
I WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT BROUGHT UP THE NUMBERS OF CHILDREN THAT WOULD POTENTIALLY BE GOING TO SCHOOL AND MAGICALLY IN ABOUT TWO WEEKS IT'S DOUBLED, ESSENTIALLY.
UM, AND I'M JUST WONDERING WHERE, I KNOW YOU HAVE SIX POINTS OF ENTRY INTO THE, THE BIGGER AREAS AND WOULD THOSE ALL BE SCHOOL BUS STOPS POTENTIALLY FOR THE STUDENTS THAT WOULD BE LIVING IN THIS DEVELOPMENT? I I, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN ANSWER AT THIS PRELIMINARY STAGE WHERE POTENTIAL SCHOOL BUS STOPS WOULD BE, WOULD OCCUR.
I WOULD TELL YOU THAT IT WOULD OCCUR AT ALL SIX.
UM, AND PROBABLY RULE OUT THE TWO DOWN HERE.
'CAUSE THIS IS THE AGE RESTRICTED DEVELOPMENT, SO I DOUBT THERE WOULD BE A BUS STOP.
BUT THE AGE, THERE ARE 55-YEAR-OLD PEOPLE THAT HAVE SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN.
THERE'S A POSSIBILITY OF THAT OCCURRING.
AND THERE ARE ALSO 55-YEAR-OLD PEOPLE WHO GO OUT TO WORK EVERY DAY.
THEY'RE NOT JUST STAYING HOME AND WAITING UNTIL NON-PEAK HOURS TO LEAVE EVEN 62 YEAR OLDS AND 65 YEAR OLDS AND 70 YEAR OLDS.
UM, YOU, SO MY CONCERN, I MEAN IT IS, IF SAY EVEN IF IT WAS THREE OF THOSE ROADS THAT HAD SCHOOL BUS STOPS, THAT'S NOT JUST ONE BUS THAT STOPS AT EVERY ROAD.
THERE'S PROBABLY FOUR TO SIX BUSES THAT WOULD BE STOPPING BECAUSE OF THE ROUTES.
SO HOW IS THAT GONNA IMPACT THE TRAFFIC WHEN YOU HAVE ALL THOSE YELLOW BUSES STOPPING ALL ALONG ONE 13 AND OLD STATE ROAD? SO AGAIN, WE'RE IN VERY PRELIMINARY STAGES.
WE HAVEN'T HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WITH RESPECT.
WE'RE NOT ALONE TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WITH RESPECT TO WHERE SCHOOL BUS STOPS COULD POTENTIALLY BE OR WOULD BE THIS DEVELOPMENT OR THIS PROJECT HAS TO BE A LOT FURTHER ALONG IN THE PROCESS BEFORE THOSE CONVERSATIONS CAN OCCUR WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
I WILL SAY THAT WHEN WE DO OUR TRAFFIC COUNTS, WE ACCOUNT FOR A MILLION VEHICULAR TRAFFIC, BUT BUSES WE ACCOUNT FOR HEAVY VEHICLES, UH, TRUCKS WITH DUMP TRUCKS, TRACTOR TRAILERS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
UM, BUT THAT BEING SAID, OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE CERTAIN TIMES IN THE MORNING AT CERTAIN TIMES IN THE MID-AFTERNOON WHEN IF YOU HAVE FIVE OR SIX BUSES THAT ARE PICKING UP CHILDREN FROM A DEVELOPMENT LIKE THIS, THAT YES, THERE WILL BE TIMES THAT TRAFFIC IS STOPPED ON THE ROAD TO LET THOSE CHILDREN OUT.
UM, THE NATURE OF A DEVELOPMENT THAT COMES WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT COMES WITH, UH, THE FACT THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN CONCENTRATED TIMES 180 DAYS OF YEAR OR THERE'S GOING TO BE SCHOOL BUS, UH, PICKUPS AND DROP OFFS.
UM, JUST TO CLARIFY ON THAT AS WELL, AND AGAIN, WE, WE OBVIOUSLY WE'D HAVE THAT WOULD BE AT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S DISCRETION WHERE THOSE, THOSE STOPS ARE LOCATED.
BUT I THINK OUR EXPERIENCE, AND WE BUILD A NUMBER, YOU KNOW, WE BUILT PLENTY OF LARGE COMMUNITIES IS GENERALLY WE, WE TRY TO INTERNALIZE THOSE SCHOOL BUS STOPS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK THE SCHOOL DISTRICT NOR WOULD WE WANT TO SEE CHILDREN WAITING ALONG OLD STATE ROAD AND BLACK ROCK ROAD.
'CAUSE I KNOW YEARS AGO DOWN AT RIVER CREST ON 29, THERE WAS A STOP THERE AND THEN EVENTUALLY THAT GOT INTERNALIZED TO THE COMMUNITY CENTER.
UM, AND MY OTHER QUESTION IS THE LETTER B WHERE THE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ARE, UM, IS THERE ONLY ONE INGRESS EGRESS INTO THERE OR IS THERE A SECONDARY ONE? THERE'S ONLY ONE INGRESS IN EGRESS, BUT THERE WOULD BE A SECONDARY EMERGENCY ACCESS UP IN THE UPPER RIGHT CORNER THERE.
BECAUSE I KNOW THE FIRE MARSHAL WOULD REQUIRE A SECONDARY WELL, AND I KNOW THE TOWNSHIP YEARS AND YEARS AGO WAS LIKE ANTI ANY DEVELOPMENT THAT ONLY HAD ONE WAY IN AND OUT.
SO, UM, UH, YEAH, I GUESS I MEAN, OH, THE OTHER THING IS WITH YOUR 234 STUDENTS, IS THAT ONLY TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE HOUSEHOLDS IN THE UPPER END OR IS IT INCLUDING THE 55 PLUS THAT THAT'S INCLUDING EVERYTHING? AND I, AND I DID WANT TO ADDRESS YOUR POINT 'CAUSE WE, WE TALKED ABOUT EXACTLY THAT, THAT WE, WE USED THE INFORMATION FROM MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION WHEN WE WERE AT THE BOARD MEETING, WE WERE ASKED SPECIFICALLY TO TRY, TRY AND PUT RESEARCH MORE LOCAL INFORMATION.
AND SO WHEN WE CAME BACK TONIGHT, WE WANTED TO BE CANDID ABOUT THAT WITH YOU AND TELL EVERYBODY HERE THAT, THAT WE DID GO DO THAT.
AND THE OUTCOME, WHILE IT WAS MORE STUDENTS, I DON'T THINK WAS ANYWHERE CLOSE TO WHAT SOME OF THE CONCERNS WERE THAT WE HEARD AT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IN TERMS OF HOW MANY CHILDREN COULD POTENTIALLY BE GENERATED BY THE DEVELOPMENT.
SO I, WE ABSOLUTELY, WE ACKNOWLEDGED IT'S AN INCREASE.
BUT THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE STUDY, AND THIS STUDY WAS COMMISSIONED AND PREPARED ON BEHALF
[00:50:01]
OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WAS THAT THEY ACTUALLY, ENROLLMENT HAS BEEN FLAT FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS.IF YOU LOOK AT ENROLLMENT, GOING BACK TO 2014 TO NOW ENROLLMENT IN THE SCHOOL'S ACTUALLY FLAT.
AND THEY'RE ALSO PROJECTING THAT ENROLLMENT IS GONNA DECLINE OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS.
SO WHILE WE ACKNOWLEDGE THE CHANGE IN ABOUT A HUNDRED SCHOOLS, STU POTENTIAL SCHOOL STUDENTS IS MEANINGFUL, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE OVERALL, UH, ENROLLMENT OF 8,000 CHILDREN ROUGHLY IN STRAIGHTFORWARD SCHOOL DISTRICT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A FACTOR OF ATMOS.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE ADDING INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, 1.7%, ABOUT 2.5%.
BUT THE OTHER THING THAT'S VERY INTERESTING, AGAIN, THAT WAS A A, WE DIDN'T COMMISSION THAT STUDY THAT WAS DONE BY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
THE OTHER THING THAT WAS VERY INTERESTING ABOUT IT WAS THEY PROJECTED THAT EVEN WITH, UH, OVER THE NEXT FIVE TO 10 YEARS, 814 POTENTIALLY STUDENTS COMING, UH, UH, UH, SCHOOL AGE STUDENTS COMING INTO THE TOWNSHIP, THAT THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF THOSE WHO WOULD ATTEND PUBLIC SCHOOL WAS ONLY ABOUT 150 OR SO.
SO WHAT THEY'RE SEEING, OR THE NET IMPACT TO ENROLLMENT WAS ABOUT 150 STUDENTS.
SO WHAT THAT'S REALLY ATTRIBUTABLE TO IS TWO THINGS, IS THE LONG TERM DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES.
THERE'S THE BIRTH RATE, AND THIS IS SPECIFIC FOR, FOR SPRING FORD SCHOOL DISTRICT.
THIS ISN'T LIKE NAG NATIONWIDE, EVEN COUNTYWIDE SPECIFICALLY FOR SPRING FORD SCHOOL DISTRICT.
UM, THE NUMBER OF BIRTHS OF NEW CHILDREN JUST OVERALL, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE POPULATION IS INCREASED BY ABOUT THINK 16 70% IS DOWN OVER THE LAST, UH, SINCE 2015 BY 12%.
SO WHAT YOU'RE HAVING IS FAMILIES ARE HAVING FEWER CHILDREN THAN, THAN, THAN THEY HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST.
AND YOU ALSO HAVE MORE NON-PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT ARE SERVING CHILDREN.
SO BETWEEN THOSE TWO FACTORS, YOU'RE ACTUALLY SEEING ENROLLMENT PROJECTED THE DECLINE IN SPRINGPORT SCHOOL, UH, AS ERIC SAID OVER THE NEXT SEVEN TO 10 YEARS.
SO IT WAS, WE WANTED TO COME TONIGHT AND SAY, HEY, WE, WE, WE WENT AND RESEARCHED THAT AND, AND GOT THE BEST INFORMATION WE CAN.
AND IT ACTUALLY GOES BOTH WAYS.
IT, IF WE MAY GENERATE MORE STUDENTS THAN WE SCHOOL STUDENTS, BUT THE ACTUAL IMPACT OF THE SCHOOLS MAY EVEN BE LESS THAN WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AT 134 OR 126 STUDENTS.
I MEAN, I JUST HAVE A TOUGH TIME BELIEVING THAT NOT ONLY JUST BECAUSE OF THIS DEVELOPMENT, BUT BECAUSE OF THE OTHER DEVELOPMENTS IN OUR TOWNSHIP.
UM, APARTMENT DEVELOPMENTS DOWN ON 29, UM, CARRIAGE HOMES ON HOPWOOD, THE TOWNHOUSES AT LEWIS, THE APARTMENTS OVER HERE BY WEGMANS, AND THAT'S JUST UPPER PROVIDENCE.
AND OUR SCHOOL DISTRICT IS NOT JUST UPPER PROVIDENCE, IT'S ROERS FORD LIMERICK AND PART OF SPRING CITY.
SO I JUST, I I HAVE A TOUGH TIME EVEN BELIEVING THAT THE NUMBERS, I MEAN, IT MAY BE FLAT AND I KNOW THEY GO UP AND DOWN, BUT I JUST HAVE A REALLY TOUGH TIME BELIEVING THAT THEY'RE GONNA JUST GO DOWN, DOWN, DOWN AND, YOU KNOW.
AND THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO PRESENT IT BECAUSE AGAIN, THIS WASN'T OUR INFORMATION AND WE WANTED TO PRESENT IT TONIGHT SO THAT ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC OR OF THE TOWNSHIP LEVEL, IF THEY WANTED TO GO DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH ON THAT, UH, THAT WAS INFORMATION THAT WAS AGAIN, AT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT COMMISSIONED ON THEIR OWN AND PUBLISHED THAT REPORT.
AND, AND AGAIN, THAT'S WHY I ASKED THAT QUESTION.
IS HE USING THE NUMBERS THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS USING? YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT HIS NUMBERS.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE THE SAME NUMBERS THAT OUR SUPERINTENDENT IS USING.
SO, BUT DOES OUR SCHOOL DISTRICT PAY ATTENTION TO ALL THE DEVELOPMENTS IN THE PIPELINE? THEY DID, YEAH.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT THAT REPORT, THEY HAVE I THINK NINE AND IT'S NOT JUST DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED, IT'S BASICALLY ANYTHING THAT'S IN THE PLANNING PROCESS.
SO NATURALLY, YOU KNOW, NOT USUALLY NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THOSE GONNA BE BUILT, BUT THEY ACTUALLY DID THE PROJECTIONS AS IF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENTS GETS BUILT OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.
UH, VICTORIA BRIGHT FROM UH, 360 4 VISTA DRIVE AND I WILL SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE, BUT I'M PROBABLY PRETTY LOUD, UM, AS IT IS, OR AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT MY SPOUSE TELLS ME.
UM, THE COUPLE OF QUESTIONS RIGHT OFF THE BAT, THE LOGISTICS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSIONS PACKET THAT WAS SENT OUT, UH, AND IS ON THE WEBSITE DOES NOT REFLECT THIS ACTUAL SKETCH PLAN.
I'M SORRY, JORDAN, THAT IS IN THERE.
WELL, I DO WANT TO JUST SHARE WITH YOU THEN, MR. GRACE, THIS SKETCH, BOTH OF THESE SKETCHES ARE IN THERE.
THIS, THIS IS THE ACTUAL PLAN.
THIS IS THE PACK THAT WAS SENT OUT WITH IT.
SO THE SKETCH THAT WAS PRESENTED IS, I GUESS IS OLD, DOES THAT ACTUALLY REFERENCES BIGGER NUMBERS MARCH 12TH? WE CAN ANSWER THAT IF YOU LIKE.
YEAH, BECAUSE I'M JUST, WE SUBMITTED, UM, WHEN WE SUBMITTED OUR REQUEST FOR, UH, AN ORDINANCE AMENDMENT, THE PLAN THAT WE SUBMITTED HAD 614 UNITS ON IT.
WE WERE APPROACHED BY THE TOWNSHIP AND ASKED IF WE COULDN'T PROPOSE MORE SINGLES AND FEWER UNITS.
SO THE SINGLES WENT FROM 19 TO 44 AND THE UNITS WENT
[00:55:01]
DOWN FROM 614 TO 600.THAT'S A DIFFERENCE IN THE PLAN.
TROY? I THINK WHAT WOULD HAPPENED IS THE ORIGINAL PACKET THAT WAS SENT OUT WAS THE ORIGINAL PLAN.
I DON'T GO BACK AND AMEND THOSE MM-HMM.
THAT WAS WHAT WAS PUT UP ON, ON THE FRIENDS OF PARK HOUSE OR ON THE PARKHOUSE? WELL IT'S, IT'S ON THE TOWNSHIP'S WEBSITE.
AND THEN SO IT IS, IT'S A LITTLE, AND THEN THE DOWNLOAD, IF I MAY FINISH THEN THE DOWNLOADABLE PACKET FOR THE MEETING TONIGHT AND THE DOWNLOADABLE PACKET FOR THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ON THE THE 18TH HAD THIS PLAN IN THERE.
SO, AND I THINK THIS, THE INFORMATION THAT WAS POSTED BY THESE APPLICANTS AT THAT MEETING, WHICH I RECEIVED THAT NIGHT, WAS ALSO PUT BACK ONTO THE TOWNSHIP WEBSITE THE NEXT DAY.
'CAUSE I JUST DOWNLOADED THIS TODAY, JEFF.
SO I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ACTUAL PLAN.
AND WHERE ARE THE, WHAT ARE THE ACTUAL SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED 19 UNITS? THOSE WOULD BE THAT TOP LITTLE AREA.
THEY'RE THE ONLY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES? NO, NO SINGLE FAMILY HOMES HERE.
SO THOSE ARE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AS WELL.
AND HOW MANY ARE ON THAT LOWER PART? 25, 25 YEAR, 19 YEAR TOTAL.
AND THEN THE FRONT ACCESS TOWN HOMES, THE 190 UNITS, SO THE, THE ONES THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT CORNER AROUND THERE ARE THE REAR ACCESS TOWN HOMES.
SO, AND, AND THE PURPOSE OF MAKING THOSE REAR ACCESS TOWN HOMES WAS SO THAT WE COULD ORIENT THE FRONT OF THE HOMES ON THE OLD STATE ROAD.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE REQUESTS WE RECEIVED WAS, RATHER THAN LOOKING AT THE REAR OF HOMES FROM OLD STATE ROAD, WE'D MUCH PREFER TO SEE THE FRONT OF THE HOMES FROM OLD STATE ROAD.
ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE WORKED IN THE DESIGN PROCESS TO DO THERE IS BECAUSE THERE'S ARE TECHNICALLY THREE STORY HOTEL HOMES.
WE'VE, WE'VE, WE'VE LOOKED AT BASICALLY BI ALONG OLD STATE ROAD AND THEN DROPPING THE ELEVATION DOWN BEHIND THEM SO THAT THE FACADES FROM OLD STATE ROAD WOULD BE TWO STORY.
SO AGAIN, CLOSER TO THE TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES THAT ARE YOU SEE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET.
SO, SO HOW TALL IS A THREE STORY TOWN HOME? SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM THE FRONT OF THAT, FROM FROM OLD STATE ROAD, IT WOULD BE A TWO STORY TOWN HOME, WHAT YOU SEE FROM OLD STATE ROAD AND, AND HOW TALL IS THAT? HOW FROM, I MEAN, YOU'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT 20 FEET FOR THE FIRST TWO FLOORS THEN THE ROOF.
PROBABLY ANOTHER 12 FEET, 1230.
WHAT SAME AS YOU WOULD SEE ON A TWO STORY.
WOULD YOU CREATE A 30 FOOT BERM? NO, THE, THE PROPOSAL IS NOT TO BERM.
THE PROPOSAL IS TO CREATE A BERM THAT DOES SCREEN SOME OF THAT.
AGAIN, WE HAVE TO WORK WITH THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THE SITE AND WHAT'S THERE.
BUT WE WERE VERY INTENTIONAL ABOUT THE IDEA THAT, HEY, IF WE CAN HOLD THAT GRADE FROM OLD STATE ROAD, WE CAN REALLY CHANGE THE LOOK TO GIVE YOU THAT TWO STORY LOOK FROM OLD STATE ROAD SO THAT THE, OKAY.
THAT, UM, THE REAR ACCESS HOMES AND THEN THE WIDE STACK TOWN HOMES.
WHERE, WHERE ARE THEY? THOSE ARE THE REAR ACCESS RIGHT HERE.
RIGHT? THOSE ARE THE REAR ACCESS RIGHT THERE.
THE STACK TOWN HOMES ARE RIGHT IN THAT CENTRAL CORE.
SO THESE ARE THE STACK TOWN HOMES.
AND, AND AGAIN, THAT WAS IN RESPONSE TO TWO THINGS.
ONE IS THERE, THERE WAS A REQUEST FOR COULD WE LOOK AT, AT, YOU KNOW, SMALLER HOME TYPE THERE.
AND THE OTHER THING IT DOES IS IT TRULY OPENS UP, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT PRODUCT TO A FIRST TIME HOME BUYER, IT'S A SMALLER PRODUCT.
IT'S A SMALLER PLAN, BUT WHAT IT ALLOWS FOR IS REALLY, YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN, WHEN WE GET TO TALKING ABOUT SCHOOL CHILDREN, THAT'S REALLY A PLAN THAT YOUNG PROFESSIONALS, PEOPLE THAT DON'T, THEY'RE NOT HAVING CHILDREN NECESSARILY YET.
THEY'RE WORKING AT SEI RIGHT? THEY'RE WORKING AT VANGUARD THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A STARTER HOME FOR THEM AND IT ALLOWS US TO FRANKLY, YOU KNOW, OFFER SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE BIT SMALLER AND A LITTLE BIT LOWER ON THE PRICE SPECTRUM THAN A TRADITIONAL TOWN.
AND THEN, UM, SORRY MR. UH, SORRY BRENDA.
I'M GOING THROUGH ALL MY NOTES HERE FROM LAST TIME TOO.
'CAUSE I DON'T THINK WE ACTUALLY GOT A CHANCE TO, THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY MARKED ON PLANTS.
SO, UM, THE, UH, ADULT CARRIAGE HOME VILLAS THAT IS DOWN IN THAT LOWER AREA.
SO ARE THEY SINGLE STORY? NO, THOSE, WELL ROB, DO YOU WANNA SPEAK TO? SURE, YEAH.
CAN YOU HEAR ME? YEAH, I CAN HEAR YOU.
YEAH, SO THE CHARACTER UNITS ON THE LOWER LEVEL, ARE THEY, THEY FROM A STREET SCAPE PERSPECTIVE, THERE ARE TWO STORIES OUT GROUND, TWO STORIES IN THE BACK.
SO JUST LIKE A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, TWO STORIES AT A GROUND FRONT DOOR ON THE GROUND LEVEL.
[01:00:01]
THEN, BUT THEY'RE JUST ATTACHED.SOME OF THEM APPEAR TO BE THREE UNITS, SOME OF APPEAR TO BE FOUR OR FIVE OR SIX UNITS ATTACHED.
AND THEY HAVE A FIRST FLOOR OWNER'S BEDROOM, WHICH IS A, WHAT YOU TRADITIONALLY SEE IN THE A TWO CAR FRONT LOAD GARAGE, GARAGE DRIVE-IN GARAGE.
CAN WE FINISH NOW? YEAH, YEAH.
SO BASICALLY THAT LOWER RIGHT SECTION AND THERE'S 153 OF THOSE.
AND THEN THAT, THAT CENTER PORTION WHERE THE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ARE AGAIN, TELL ME WHAT THAT IS.
SO THOSE ARE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ON THE PERIMETER.
AND THEN ON THAT KIND OF INTERIOR ISLAND SPACE, UM, WHAT WE'RE SHOWING IN THERE ARE, UH, WHAT WE CALL THE, THE TWO STORY CARRIAGE HOMES.
SO THOSE ARE FRONT LOADED CARRIAGE HOMES, TWO CAR GARAGES, BUT THEY'RE ON THE INTERIOR OF THAT SECTION THERE.
AND THEN WE HAVE THE SINGLE FAMILIES ON THE EXTERIOR.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT PLAN AND YOU SEE THE, LET SEE, SORRY, YEAH.
FRONT ACCESS TOWN HOMES 28 FEET WIDE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT THOSE ARE.
WE'VE ALSO THEN TRIED TO FOCUS, YOU KNOW, IN THESE PERIMETER AREAS, THOSE, AGAIN, IT'S A TWO STORY HOUSE.
SO IT'S, IT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE NOT AS OPPOSING FROM THE STREETS SCAPE THERE.
UM, AND AGAIN, TRY TO BUFFER THOSE WHERE WE CAN FROM EXISTING OR PROPOSED ROADWAYS TO CREATE SOME SEPARATION.
THAT WAS HELPFUL TO, UH, TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DENSITY IS.
'CAUSE IT'S, THERE'S A LOT OF HOUSES, RIGHT? AND, AND IF I WERE TO BUY A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, I, I, YOU KNOW, I, I LIVE IN A SINGLE FAMILY HOME R ONE, RIGHT.
AND IF ANY OF YOU WANNA COME AND MOW MY, MY YARD, I'D APPRECIATE THAT.
BUT I GET THIS IS THAT THERE'S LITERALLY NO GREEN SPACE IN BETWEEN THESE HOUSES, RIGHT? WHAT'S 20 FEET, 25 FEET AT THE MAX WE HAVE BETWEEN HOUSES.
LIKE I COULD STAND HERE AND SEE MY NEIGHBOR RIGHT THERE.
AND, AND PART OF WHAT DOING THAT ALLOWS US TO DO IS SET ASIDE THE 50% OF THE PROPERTY FOR OPEN SPACE THAT WE'RE PROPOSING.
I, I WOULD ALSO TELL YOU THAT IF YOU LOOK THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY, WE'RE FOCUSED THESE INTERIOR AREAS, RIGHT? SO YOU'RE RIGHT, NOT NECESSARILY BETWEEN HOMES, YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU MIGHT SEE IN R ONE DISTRICT, RIGHT? BUT WE HAVE INCORPORATED THESE GREEN AREAS THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITIES, LITTLE PUBLIC SQUARES, PUBLIC PARKS.
AND THEN OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, KEEPING THOSE CLUSTERED MORE TIGHTLY IS PART AND PARCEL OF WHAT ALLOWS US TO SET THE, THE A DA ACRES ASIDE.
SO HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND, UM, STORM WATER MANAGEMENT.
SO I'M COUNTING LIKE 5, 6, 7, 8, 8 LITTLE, MAYBE 9, 8, 9, 10 STORM WATER MANAGEMENT BASINS THAT LOOK LIKE THEY'RE ABOUT THE SIZE OF TWO OR THREE HOMES.
AND IS THAT TYPICAL FOR THIS KIND OF ACREAGE? IT, IT, WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH A FULL ENGINEERING STUDY.
JUST LIKE MATT SAID, WE'RE IN PRELIMINARY STAGES OF TRAFFIC STUDY.
WE'RE ALSO IN PRELIMINARY STAGES OF LAYOUT AND THUS ENGINEERING DESIGN.
SO THEY COULD BE IN THOSE LOCATIONS, THEY COULD BE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT.
THERE'S OTHER OPPORTUNITIES IF YOU LOOK SOME OF THOSE OTHER GREEN AREAS FOR SMALLER STORMWATER BASINS.
AND THAT'S THE OBJECT OF STORMWATER IS YOU SPREAD IT OUT OVER A LARGER AREA AND NOT ONE BIG BASIN.
SO THAT WAS THE GOAL HERE WAS TO SHOW AS MANY BASIN AREAS AS WE COULD WHERE WE CONCEPTUALLY THOUGHT IT WOULD BE.
AND ONCE WE GET INTO THE DESIGN, THEY CAN MORPH INTO, MAYBE IT'S A LITTLE BIT LARGER THERE.
MAYBE WE ADD SOMEWHERE IN SOME OTHER PLACES.
SO WHERE DOES THE STORM, I'M NAIVE TO THIS REALLY TRULY.
WHERE DOES THE STORM WATER WHEN IT GOES INTO THE BASIN AND IT'S FLOWING TO SOMETHING SOMEWHERE, WHERE IS IT FLOWING TO? UH, OUR OBJECTIVE WOULD BE TO GET AS MUCH AS WE CAN TO INFILTRATE INTO THE GROUND FIRST.
UM, IF WE CAN'T GET INFILTRATION AND WE HAVE TO HOLD BACK THE STORM, UM, THEN THE LARGE GREEN AREA UP THE MIDDLE, EVERYTHING WOULD DIS THOSE BASINS WOULD DISCHARGE INTO THAT AREA.
THAT'S WHERE MOST OF THIS IS ALL, IT'S ALL FALLING KIND OF WHERE THE CENTER OF THE SITE, IT'S KIND OF WHERE IT GOES NOW, I GUESS.
YOU'VE GOT THE LARGE, YOU'VE GOT THE, THE Y SHAPED STREAM THROUGH THE MIDDLE.
SO EVERYTHING, A LOT OF IT GENERALLY FALLS TOWARDS THAT AREA.
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A WHILE BECAUSE TWO, THREE YEARS AGO, HURRICANE IDA JUST WIPED AWAY A COMMUNITY WHERE ALL THAT STORM WATER SEEPED INTO THE GROUND NOW THAT GRANTED THIS IS GONNA BE ASPHALT AND MAYBE SOME STORM WATER BASINS, 10 MAYBE OR SO.
AND IT ALL WENT INTO THE GROUND AND IT FLOODS DOWN THAT LITTLE NICE.
[01:05:01]
WHICH PROBABLY WILL BE AT LEAST HOPEFULLY A TRAIL THAT WILL PROBABLY GET WASHED OUT BECAUSE THEN IT'S GONNA GO BACK INTO THE SCHUELL RIVER WE ASSUME BECAUSE IT'S FLOWING DOWN, I'M ASSUMING.AND THEN TWO YEARS AGO, THREE YEARS AGO, I THINK OUR TOWNSHIP JUST WENT THROUGH A VERY TRAUMATIC EVENT OF HAVING OBVIOUSLY STORM WATER, HURRICANE IDA.
AND OBVIOUSLY THE ISSUES AROUND STORM WATER ARE VERY, VERY SENSITIVE TO THIS COMMUNITY BECAUSE THERE'S PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR HOMES, THEIR LIVELIHOODS, UM, AND HAVE BEEN HOUSED, WERE UNHOUSED FOR ALMOST THREE YEARS NOW BECAUSE OF THAT.
SO THIS PROPERTY SITS UPSTREAM UP RIVER AND IS A CONCERN AROUND STORM WATER MANAGEMENT.
WE WOULD STRONGLY, STRONGLY, STRONGLY ADVISE US TO DO SOME REAL SERIOUS STORM WATER MANAGEMENT STUDIES AROUND THIS PROPERTY SPECIFICALLY.
AND I KNOW NATURAL LANDS TRUSTED SOME STUFF AND THAT'S THE AREA WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HAS UNDERWATER SEEPS, UNDERGROUND SEEPS AND INFILTRATION ISSUES AND SERIOUS PROBLEMS. BUT I WOULD JUST, THAT WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION IF WE GO FORWARD WITH THIS UN UNDERSTOOD.
AND THE TOWNSHIP ORDINANCE REQUIRES A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN STORMWATER.
SO JUST BY NATURE OF WHAT THE TOWNSHIP HAS ON THEIR ORDINANCES FROM A STORMWATER MANAGEMENT STANDPOINT REQUIRES US TO GO WHAT I'LL CALL ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT A LOT OF OTHER TOWNSHIPS HAVE.
WELL, AND IT KIND OF GETS TO PART OF MY NEXT QUESTION ABOUT WHAT THE TOWNSHIP IS REQUESTING.
AND WHILE WE GET THAT, THERE'S STUDIES AROUND TRAFFIC AND STORM WATER MANAGEMENT.
I AM, I AM GONNA QUESTION, UM, AND I, I DON'T KNOW IF, IF ANYBODY DRIVES THIS ROAD EXCEPT MAYBE THE FOLKS THAT HIT DRIVE THIS ROAD, BUT AT THE SOUTH TRACK ROAD ENTRANCE, I DID A LITTLE PERSONAL STUDY THE LAST TWO, THREE WEEKS AND I DECIDED TO CUT AND COME DOWN THAT LITTLE BEAUTIFUL VISTA WHERE YOU SEE SOUTH TRACK ROAD AND TRY AND TURN ONTO ONE 13.
AND I'M TELLING YOU, I TOOK MY LIFE IN MY HANDS MANY, MANY TIMES.
SO THAT EGRESS, THAT'S AT THE 55 PLUS AGE RESTRICTED COMMUNITY, I CAN GUARANTEE YOU I ALSO HAVE ONE OF THOSE LITTLE SPEED DETECTORS THAT MY SON USED WHEN WE WERE DOING BASEBALL.
'CAUSE I WANTED TO SEE HOW FAST HIS PITCHES WERE.
AND I SAW THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING THE 40 MILE PER HOUR, NEVER.
AS SOON AS THEY HIT THAT TURN ONTO BLACKROCK ROAD FROM BLACKROCK TO BLACKROCK OR COMING DOWN ONE 13, YOU CAN GUARANTEE THE SLOPE OF THAT HILL WILL BRING YOU UP TO ABOUT 45 MILES AN HOUR RIGHT AT THAT CORNER.
SO PEOPLE ARE NOT DRIVING THE SPEED.
AGAIN, THIS IS A TRAFFIC STUDY ISSUE.
DID YOU DO A TRAFFIC STUDY THERE AT THAT PARTICULAR CORNER WITH AN AGE RESTRICTED FOCAL POINT THAT SAYS, OH, I'M GONNA HAVE TO PULL OUT AND GET ONTO ROUTE ONE 13 SOMEHOW EITHER LEFT OR RIGHT.
GOD FORBID YOU'RE CUTTING ACROSS TRAFFIC WHEN SOMEBODY'S COMING DOWN 50, YOU KNOW, 45.
I'M A LITTLE HEAVY ON THE PEDAL TOO, SO I'M GONNA PAY ATTENTION TO THAT MORE OFTEN.
BUT THAT'S A SERIOUS AREA RIGHT THERE.
WAS THERE A TRAFFIC STUDY DONE AT THAT POINT? MS. BREAK JUST BEFORE MR. HAMMETT ANSWERS, AND JUST FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC, I WANNA REMIND EVERYBODY THAT THE PLAN THAT'S BEING SHOWN IS THE CONCEPT PLAN BASED ON THE ORDINANCE THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS REVIEWING TONIGHT.
SO THE, THIS PLAN AND THE ACCESS POINTS COULD, CAN CHANGE THROUGHOUT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
SO I, I JUST WANT EVERYBODY TO, TO CONSIDER, I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SIX ACCESS POINTS AND THAT PARTICULAR POINT OF EGRESS ON THE TRAP ROAD AND, AND DIFFERENT TYPE OF SPECIFIC FEATURES OF THIS PLAN WHEN IT GOES THROUGH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AND STUDIED FOR TRAFFIC AND, AND SITE DISTANCES AND TRAFFIC COUNTS AND THOSE TYPE OF THINGS.
I I THINK MR. HAMMOND CAN ADDRESS THE TRAFFIC STUDY QUESTION FOR SURE.
I JUST WANNA REMIND THIS IS A CONCEPT PLAN, NOT A LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
I, I WOULD SAY YES, WE DID INCLUDE THAT INTERSECTION.
I CAN ALSO, UM, SAY THAT WE DID A SPEED STUDY IN THAT AREA.
UH, I KNOW THAT POSTED SPEED LIMIT THIS 40, BUT WE FOUND PEOPLE ACTUALLY TRAVELING UPWARDS OF 48 49 MILES PER HOUR.
SO EVEN HIGHER THAN 45 THAT YOU HAD MENTIONED WITH YOUR SON'S BASEBALL RADAR.
PROBABLY KIND OF BE CALIBRATED.
UM, BUT NO, UM, YEAH, WE, WE FOUND 48 TO FOUR NINE MILES PER HOUR.
SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE ALSO TOOK IN, INTO ACCOUNT AS FAR AS THE ANALYSIS CONCERNED AND LOOKING AT THE SPEEDS OF TRAVEL IN THAT ROADWAY.
AND AGAIN, THE, THE OTHER QUESTION THAT I WOULD HAVE IS AROUND, AND IT'S BEEN MENTIONED HERE AROUND THAT SECOND AVENUE AND OLD STATE ROAD, THAT POINT OF
[01:10:01]
IT CERTAINLY IS NOT A 90 DEGREE ANGLE TURN OFF OF, UH, UH, SECOND AVENUE ON OLD STATE.AND, UH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OTHER ANGLE WOULD BE, BUT, UM, THAT CORNER UPPER CORNER IS A VERY SERIOUS, SERIOUS, UH, SITE OF, OF CONTENTION FOR, UH, A LOT OF PEOPLE.
I DID WANNA BRING TO THE POINT ABOUT THE ZONING AMENDMENT PROPOSAL.
UM, I THINK IT WAS BROUGHT UP AT THE LAST MEETING THAT THIS ZONING AMENDMENT, THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN, ALLOWS FOR 880 UNITS THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN, WHICH IS COMPLETELY PREPOSTEROUS.
IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 600 UNITS, WHY WRITE A ZONING AMENDMENT FOR 880? I CAN ANSWER THAT.
THE, THE REASON THAT THE BASICALLY FOUR UNITS PER ACRE ORIGINALLY, AND THEN MR. BERMAN OF ORDERS FOR HOLDINGS SAID IF I'M DROPPING DOWN FROM 729 UNITS TO 600 UNITS, I WANT TO BE ABLE TO RECOUP SOME OF THAT MONEY BY CONTRIBUTING THE GROUND TO THE TOWNSHIP AND GETTING A DEDUCTION FOR IT.
WE WILL HAVE, WITH MR. AK AN AGREEMENT THAT WE WILL NOT BUILD MORE THAN 600 UNITS REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS.
THAT WILL BE ENFORCEABLE, UM, BY THE TOWNSHIP.
YEAH, THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT.
AND I GUESS THE OTHER QUESTION WAS, IS THE FINANCIAL STUDY, UM, THE ONE THING THAT WE DID SEE ON THE PAGE, BUT WAS NOT A PART OF THE ACTUAL PLAN DOCUMENT WAS THE FINANCIAL ANALYSIS THAT WAS DONE, UM, OF WHAT THE PROPERTY ITSELF REFERENCED.
AND WHILE I, I RECOGNIZE THAT THE TOWNSHIP, UH, WILL GAIN A LOT OF MONEY, I SUPPOSE.
UM, THERE IS, AND THERE'S OBVIOUSLY COST TO BUILDING A CIRCLE.
THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS ALREADY DONE AT THE TIME A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.
WE FOUND IN THE RIGHT TO KNOW THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS DONE WITH THE CONCEPT OF THIS PLAN ALREADY THERE BECAUSE THE TRAFFIC STUDY INCLUDED THE PLAN.
SO I'M, I'M STILL CONFUSED WHY WE'RE WORRYING ABOUT PAYING THAT, THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT WILL INCREASE THE REVENUE FOR THE TOWNSHIP IN ORDER TO PAY FOR THE CIRCLE THAT THEY HAD ALREADY PLANNED TO BUILD THAT WAS IN THE RIGHT TO KNOW.
SO THERE THERE ARE IMPACT FEES THAT ARE GENERATED FROM ANY DEVELOPMENT ARE IMPACT FEES.
JUST BECAUSE THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS DONE AND THE CIRCLE WAS IDENTIFIED AS A NECESSITY DOES NOT MEAN THE FUNDING WAS IDENTIFIED TO CONSTRUCT THE TRAFFIC CIRCLE AND THAT THE FUNDING CAN COME FROM PREVIOUS IMPACT FEES THAT WERE COLLECTED BY THE TOWNSHIP.
I, I CAN'T SPEAK AS TO WHETHER THEY WERE SUFFICIENT AT THE TIME, BUT ARE STILL SUFFICIENT TO CONSTRUCT THAT TRAFFIC CIRCLE.
BUT IT'S A, IT'S A POT OF MONEY AND I WOULD ASK THAT THE TOWNSHIP CONSIDER DOING A SECOND TRAFFIC CIRCLE STUDY.
I KNOW THAT WE GOT MONEY FROM THE STATE FROM PENDO TO DO THAT.
IT WAS A GRANT, BUT IT WAS NOT ALSO INCLUDING THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC.
THERE'S 700 UNITS THAT ARE JUST BEEN APPROVED FOR APARTMENTS THAT ARE LESS THAN ONE MILE AWAY.
THERE'S ALSO A PROPOSAL ON THE TABLE FOR ANOTHER 400 UNITS OF APARTMENTS THAT ARE LESS THAN A HALF A MILE AWAY.
THAT CIRCLE, THAT AREA WILL BE SO, SO OVERWHELMED EVEN IF IT WAS BUILT TODAY BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH MORE TRAFFIC GOING TO THAT KING OF PRUSSIA, WAYNE DEVON AREA.
PLEASE CONSIDER DOING A DIFFERENT, ANOTHER, UH, TRAFFIC STUDY, UM, AT LEAST FOR THE CIRCLE.
'CAUSE THAT CIRCLE WILL NOT BE, UH, SUFFICIENT IN THE CAPACITY.
NOW I'VE SEE, AND I AGAIN, PLEASE LOOK AT THE CIRCLE STUDY BECAUSE IT WAS DONE A YEAR AND A HALF, TWO YEARS AGO.
AND IT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE 700 UNITS THAT WERE JUST APPROVED THE OTHER NIGHT FOR APARTMENTS AT THE PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER AND THE 400 THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED ALONG ONE 13.
IF I COULD JUST CLARIFY REAL QUICK AND, AND JUST SO I'M CLEAR, THE, THE ORIGINAL TRAFFIC ANALYSIS AND SCOPING APPLICATION THAT WE HAD PREPARED OVER A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, WHICH I MENTIONED, UM, DID NOT INCLUDE THE PROVISION OF A ROUNDABOUT.
THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE HAD PROPOSED.
BUT, BUT THE TOWNSHIP DID ONE ONCE, ONCE WE SUBMITTED THE INFORMATION, THE TOWNSHIP GOT BACK TO US AND SAID, YOU NEED TO CONSIDER THE FACT AND DESIGN THE SITE SO THAT IT DOES NOT PRECLUDE THE ABILITY FOR THE ROUNDABOUT TO BE CONSTRUCTED IN THE FUTURE.
AND WE PROVIDE IT WITH THE TWO OPTIONS.
SO THAT'S WHY WE'VE TRIED TO SHOW THE ROUNDABOUT BECAUSE THAT WAS WHAT WE WERE GIVEN.
WELL, AND I'M I'M JUST SUGGESTING THAT EVEN WITH 600 HOMES
[01:15:02]
SAY TWO CARS, EACH TEENAGERS POSSIBLY THREE CARS, YOU KNOW, THE, SOME OF OUR NEIGHBORS HAVE LIKE FOUR OR FIVE CARS,SO THIS IS NOT GONNA BE JUST 1200 CARS.
AND WE HAVE ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT THAT'S HAPPENING WITH APARTMENTS THAT IS LITERALLY HALF A MILE AWAY IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.
ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT HAPPENING AROUND THE CORNER WITH 400 UNITS IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.
OBVIOUSLY IT'S GONNA BE MORE TRAFFIC THAT'S THE ONLY EGRESS TO GET INTO CHESTER COUNTY.
SO THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING LOOK AT THAT TRAFFIC STUDY IN THAT CIRCLE STUDY.
I LIVE AT 1 93 COUNTRY RIDGE DRIVE.
AND I DON'T REALLY HAVE A QUESTION.
UM, AS A SCHOOL TEACHER IN THE UPPER MARRION SCHOOL DISTRICT FOR THE LAST 29 YEARS, I'VE BEEN THROUGH A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT, A LOT OF PROPOSALS, AND A LOT REDISTRICTING.
AND IN MY EXPERIENCE, I HAVE FOUND WHEN THESE PLANS COME UP THAT THE ENROLLMENT IS GROSSLY UN EXAGGERATED.
LIKE IT IS, THERE'S SO MANY MORE CHILDREN THAT ACTUALLY ENTER THE DISTRICT THAN WHAT'S PROPOSED.
I, I KNOW THE HYPOTHETICALS AND THE NUMBER CRUNCHING, BUT THE REALITY IS OFTEN MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THAT.
AND SO I JUST WANTED THAT TO BE OUT THERE AND PEOPLE TO BE AWARE THAT IT IS A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON THE DISTRICT.
OFTENTIMES I'M ALSO GLAD TO SEE THAT, UM, YOU'RE CONSIDERING THAT OLD STATE, UM, RIGHT NOW LIVING THERE WITH VIRTUALLY LITTLE TO NO TRAFFIC ON THAT ROAD.
JUST GETTING A SCHOOL BUS IN THERE IN THE MORNING.
THERE IS NOT ENOUGH ROOM FOR TWO CARS, UM, A LARGE TRUCK AND A CAR TO MAKE IT THROUGH THAT, THAT ROAD WITHOUT SOMEBODY HAVING TO VEER OFF INTO THE GRASS.
SO, UM, I THINK A TRAFFIC STUDY ON THAT ROAD CERTAINLY IS WARRANTED.
TONY PATRICK, UM, OAKS, THE REAL OAKS
ANYWAY, UM, I'M GONNA PIGGYBACK ON TORI AND THE OTHER YOUNG LADY HERE BECAUSE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, I KIND OF JUST, THE HOUSES THAT YOU HAVE APPROVED TO LIKE REVISION TONIGHT WAS 294 ADDITIONAL HOMES IN OUR AREA WITH EIGHT APARTMENT UNITS OFF OF COLLEGE ROAD.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE CONSIDERING THAT FOR PART OF THE TRAFFIC THAT'S COMING DOWN SINCE I LIVE OFF OF, UH, GUM AND LAUREL, WE HAVE THE SPEED HUNTS AND I TELL YOU FROM JUST GETTING OUT ON THE BLACKROCK ROAD, GOING LEFT IS IS YOU, CAN'T WE, WE NEED A LIGHT THERE OR SOMETHING, UM, JUST TO TRACK YOUR LOAD.
AND THEN 4 22 WAS BACKED UP TODAY.
I, I TRIED COMING HOME FROM
SO REMEMBER LIKE SOMEONE ASKED YOU GUYS LAST WEEK WHERE THE, THE SUPERVISOR MEETING, IF YOU DID A TRAFFIC STUDY ON 4 22 THAT NEEDS TO GET DONE, WE DID NOT DO A TRAFFIC STUDY ON 4 22 NORWOOD.
YOU DO A TRAFFIC STUDY AT 4 22.
UM, THAT'S A, A FEDERAL HIGHWAY, RIGHT? UM, WHERE, UH, THERE ARE STUDIES BEING DONE AND
HOWEVER, WHAT WE DID DO WAS LOOK AT THE TRAFFIC THAT WE WOULD EXPECT TO BE COMING FROM AND GOING TO ROUTE 4 22.
UM, BUT WE DID NOT STUDY 4 22, NOR WOULD WE STUDY 4 22 AND THAT RICH PIKE OR SOMETHING SOMEWHERE ALONG THAT WHOLE AREA NEEDS TO BE CHECKED ON.
NOT JUST THIS LITTLE TINY AREA GOING UP TO LIKE SECOND AVENUE AND STUFF DOWN AROUND.
JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU COULD DO THAT.
WE, WE LOOKED AT A NUMBER OF INTERSECTIONS, NOT THIS LITTLE AREA.
UM, BUT THERE'S A CERTAIN AREA THAT WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO LOOK AT AND THAT AREA'S BEEN EXPANDED AND, AND WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO EXPAND THAT AREA.
THERE ARE OTHER, WE CAN'T BE RESPONSIBLE TO FIX THE ISSUES THAT EXIST ON REACH PIKE AND FURTHER OFF, BUT THIS IS GOING TO CREATE MORE OF AN ISSUE FOR US.
UM, THE NEXT THING IS THE ENROLLMENT.
SO I HAVE HERE THE SCHOOL BOARD'S ENROLLMENT, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU SPOKE TO AT THE SCHOOL, BUT I GO TO THE SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS STILL.
SO THE ENROLLMENT HERE THAT IS PROJECTED FOR 2024 LOAN WAS 8,093 GOING INTO,
[01:20:01]
UM, UP TO 2031.WE'RE EXPECTING TO BE AROUND NINE LIKE 9,100 STUDENTS.
AND, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY EVEN PROJECTED THIS PLAN ALONG WITH THE APARTMENT COMPLEXES AND STUFF.
I DON'T KNOW IF I NEED TO SHOW YOU THAT JEFF.
SO I'M, I'M JUST SAYING THAT LIKE THE TEACHER HAD SAID OUR SCHOOL TAXES ARE GOING UP, WE CAN'T AFFORD ANYMORE.
I DON'T MAKE ANY MORE MONEY THAN I POSSIBLY CAN AND I BET YOU A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE CAN'T, WE CAN'T EARN ANY MORE AND, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT, IT'S JUST SCARY.
YOU'RE TAKING IN THE 88 ACRES I GUESS IN SPACE.
I WOULD LIKE YOU NOT TO SUBDIVIDE THAT WHERE HE'S TRYING TO GET THAT SUBDIVIDED INTO MAKING THOSE PARTIALS 80, UM, ACRES INDIVIDUALIZED PARTIALS.
BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
THE TOWNSHIP'S GONNA FALL BELOW THE BALLOTS, THE BUDGET AND THEN THEY'RE GONNA TRY TO SELL OFF SOME OF THIS.
THEY'VE DONE IT PREVIOUSLY AND THEY'LL DO IT AGAIN.
TONY, CAN I TAKE A PICTURE OF YOUR PHONE? HUH? I CAN TAKE A PICTURE OF YOUR PHONE.
MY NAME IS CAROL PENNY BECKER, 2 71 HEF ROAD.
I'M ABOVE THE B AT THE TOP OF THE B MY QUESTION IS FOR THE, UH, TRAFFIC CONTROL ON OLD STATE ROAD, ARE THERE ANY EXITS ON OLD STATE ROAD AT ALL FROM THE TOWN ROOMS? YES.
AND WHERE IS IT EXACTLY THE ACCESS TO AND FROM THE, I GUESS I'LL CALL IT THE MAJORITY OF THE, THE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT IS TO AND FROM OLD STATE ROAD OPPOSITE HEFNER.
SO IT GONNA CALL GRAYWOOD TO HEFNER ROAD.
IT'S DIRECTLY OPPOSITE HEFNER HEFNER ROAD IS EVEN SMALLER THAN OLD STATE ROAD AND IT ALSO HAS A HILL THAT COMES DOWN TO WHERE MY PROPERTY IS.
AND I'M GONNA REQUEST THAT THE TOWNSHIP PUT IN A STOP SIGN BECAUSE I CAN'T GET OUTTA MY DRIVEWAY SOMETIMES.
NOW AND WITH ALL THESE OTHER CARS THAT COME IN, I'M GONNA HAVE A TOUGH TIME GETTING OUT AT ALL.
I HAVE A HORSE TRAILER, I HAVE TO TAKE THE WHOLE ROAD TO GET OUT OF MY DRIVEWAY AND I CAN'T SEE THE CARS COMING OVER THE HILL.
AND IF THEY'RE GONNA PUT AN EXIT AT THE B AT THE BOTTOM AND THE TOP AND ON OLD STATE ROAD, THAT LITTLE ROAD'S NOT GONNA HOLD UP.
WE YOU REPLACED IT THREE TIMES ALREADY SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE.
SO THAT'S MY QUESTION FOR YOU.
JUST, JUST TO BE CLEAR, WE WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY ACCESS DIRECTLY ON THE HALF ROAD.
THE ACCESS IS STRICTLY THERE OFF OF OLD STATE ROAD.
WHAT'S STOPPED THEM FROM COMING DOWN TO HAFNER ROAD? FROM WHERE? FROM OLD STATE TO EXIT THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT.
WE SEE THE BEACH THAT'S HALF TRAVELING STRAIGHT UP HE ROAD.
YOU SAID THERE'S AN EXIT RIGHT THERE OFF OF OLD STATE AND HEFTER ROAD FROM THE DEVELOPMENT.
SO AS FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, WE ALWAYS TRY TO LOOK AT THE ABILITY TO CREATE FOUR-WAY INTERSECTIONS, WHERE A THREE-WAY INTERSECTION.
BUT HOW ARE YOU, HOW ARE YOU GONNA STOP THE VOLUME OF THOSE CARS OFF OF THAT LITTLE TINY ROAD, HALF THE ROAD? WELL I THINK WHAT THEY'RE ASKING IS WHERE, WHERE, WHERE DO YOU, WHERE'S THE TRAFFIC GOING ON DOWN? WELL IF THEY EXIT THERE, THERE'RE EITHER GONNA GO RIGHT DOWN TO SECOND AVENUE, WHICH IS A REALLY BAD TURN LEFT OFF OLD STATE.
OLD STATE AND OR THEY GO RIGHT OVER JAGER.
BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE CUT THROUGH ON HEFFORD ROAD 'CAUSE THAT GOES DOWN TO SECOND AVENUE.
AND IT'S EASY TO GET OUT TO THE BOTTOM.
SO, OR THEY'LL CUT THROUGH COUNTRY RIDGE.
OR THEY'RE COUNTRY, COUNTRY RIDGE.
JUST WHAT THEY'LL DO, THEY'LL START ZIGZAGGING THROUGH EVERYTHING.
JUST LIKE THE LADY MENTIONED TODAY, WHEN THE ROADS CLOSED, PEOPLE ARE GONNA FIND ANY WAY THEY CAN TO DO OH, I KNOW, I KNOW.
I'VE BEEN THROUGH IT MANY TIMES.
YOU KNOW, CLOSE 4 22, YOU'RE GONNA FIND EVERY ROAD YOU CAN AND GET YOU, I KNOW I DID IT TODAY.
I DID IT TODAY, BUT I'M SAYING IS COULD BE MAYBE PUT A STOP SIGN IN AT MEADOW GREEN.
OH THAT, I'M SURE THAT WILL BE DONE.
AND THAT'LL EVENTUALLY MAYBE IF, IF IT COMES TO THAT.
I THINK THAT'S A GOOD SUGGESTION.
AND UH, MY SECOND QUESTION IS, UM, WE CONSIDER PUTTING A BERM IN PRIVACY AT THE EDGE OF THE PROPERTY LINE.
SO WE WOULD, WE COULD CERTAINLY LOOK AT LANDSCAPING UP ALONG THERE AND CREATE SOME SCREENING.
PETTY, THE ORDINANCE DOES REQUIRE A FIRM ALL THE WAY ALONG OLD STATE ROAD.
SO THERE'S A FULLY, I'M I'M DOWN BELOW.
I'M, UH, ERIC SCHWEIKER FROM, UH, GATES HEAD WAY, UH, PHOENIXVILLE.
[01:25:01]
I JUST WANNA SAY THANKS FOR COMING OUT AND SPENDING YOUR TIME WITH US.UM, I JUST WANTED TO ASK LIKE, HAVE WE THOUGHT ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE GROWTH OF THE COMMUNITY AND, UH, PHOENIXVILLE IN GENERAL? UH, WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT STUDENTS, BUT HOW ABOUT THE BOROUGH OF PHOENIXVILLE AND, AND THE GROWTH OF, 'CAUSE I I KIND OF SEE PHOENIXVILLE NEWER TO THE AREA, UM, AND I LOVE THE AREA, BUT I SEE THIS AREA GROWING IMMENSELY AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE, UH, IN GENERAL IS GONNA SUPPORT, UM, GROWTH 10, 15, 20 YEARS, UH, FROM NOW.
SO I JUST WANNA GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.
YEAH, SO, AND AGAIN, SO, YOU KNOW, FULL TRANSPARENCY, I LIVE 10 MINUTES AWAY.
I'M IN CHARLESTOWN JUST ON THE OTHER SIDE OF PHOENIX.
SO I SEE THE SAME THING YOU DO.
I'VE BEEN A RESIDENT THERE FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS.
UM, AND FRANKLY IT'S, IT'S BECOME A VERY DESIRABLE PLACE, AS YOU SAID.
AND YOU KNOW, WE TAKE OUR FAMILY IN ON FRIDAY AND SATURDAY NIGHTS FOR ALL THE REASONS YOU'RE REPORTING OUT.
UH, PART OF OUR PROPOSAL HERE.
AND PART OF I THINK WHAT THE TOWNSHIP, THE, THE CONCERNS THAT WERE EXPRESSED TO THE 1,203 UNIT PLAN WERE EXACTLY AS YOU SAID, SO MORE INTENSIVE USE IT, IT HAS MORE OF A BURDEN ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
THAT'S PART OF THE IDEA OF COMING BACK WITH THE PROPOSAL FOR THE 600 UNITS AS WE, WE UNDERSTAND THE CONCERNS AND WE'RE WILLING TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION AND COMPROMISE PROVIDED AGAIN, WE STILL HAVE A PROJECT THAT MAKES SENSE AND WE HAVE A PROPERTY OWNER WHO OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, E ECONOMICALLY IT HAS TO MAKE SENSE FOR.
BUT I THINK THAT'S FIRST OF ALL PART OF THE LANE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
AND YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE BOTH, YOU KNOW, TOWNSHIP STAFF AND THE PROFESSIONALS THAT THAT WORK FOR THE TOWNSHIP WHO ARE IMMENSELY QUALIFIED THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT GETS VETTED OUT DURING THAT LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
AND THEN SECONDLY, I THINK TO YOUR POINT THAT'S A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS THERE ARE SOME PROJECTS INCLUDING THAT ROUNDABOUT THAT HAVE AT LEAST BEEN PROPOSED AND IDENTIFIED.
AND TO THE EXTENT THAT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS PROJECT WOULD CREATE SOME FUNDING FOR THOSE, THAT THAT'S HOW THAT INFRASTRUCTURE ULTIMATELY GETS IMPROVED EVERY TIME.
IT'S, UM, I'D SAY THAT 1200 THAT'S PRETTY STRONG THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR THIS SORT OF INFRASTRUCTURE, I, I WOULD THINK THAT'D BE A LOT OF PEOPLE.
UM, BUT YEAH, AND I, I JUST WANT TO, YOU KNOW, BRING THAT FOCUS TO, YOU KNOW, NOT JUST STUDENTS, BUT JUST THE COMMUNITY IN GENERAL AND THE, AND THE GROWTH OF, OF, OF THE COMMUNITY.
'CAUSE I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE WAY PHILADELPHIA IS MOVING IS YOU HAVE ALL THESE LIKE, UM, TOWNS LIKE KING OF PRUSSIA, WESTCHESTER PHOENIXVILLE THAT ARE, PEOPLE ARE JUST GRAVITATING TO THESE COMMUNITIES NOWADAYS.
THEY'RE KIND OF GRAVITATING AWAY FROM PHILADELPHIA COMING OUT HERE.
AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS INFRASTRUCTURE IS GONNA SUPPORT, YOU KNOW, THAT GROWTH OVER TIME.
THAT'S JUST, I APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE HAVING THESE MEETINGS.
WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE THAT ALL OUT.
YEAH, AND YOU CAN'T SPEAK I GOT YOUR PICTURES.
UH, ROBERT QUOTES 1 38 BENNINGTON ROAD.
UM, JUST A QUESTION ACTUALLY ON SECOND AVENUE THERE.
SO WHAT WERE THOSE PROPERTIES THAT ARE GONNA BE RIGHT ON SECOND AVENUE? WERE THOSE THE STACKED HOMES OR WHATEVER? NO, THERE'S NO STACKED HOMES PROPOSED ALONG, UH, ANY OF THE PERIMETER OF THE PROPERTY.
THOSE UP THERE ARE ACTUALLY THE THREE STORY REAR LOADED TOWN HOMES THAT YOU SEE THERE.
AND THEN AS YOU GO CALL IT TO THE EAST ALONG THERE, THOSE ARE ALL TWO STORYTELLINGS.
SO WHAT'S GOING TO, BECAUSE I, I MEAN I LIVE OFF THAT ROAD, THAT WHAT I'M ASKING.
SO, UM, WHAT'S MY VIEW GONNA BE LEAVING THERE? SO I KNOW YOU SAID PUTTING IN BURNS AND STUFF, LIKE A LOT OF CONSIDERATIONS FOR PEOPLE ON OLD STATE ROAD, LIKE WHEN I'M PULLING OUT ON DRY VIS, WHAT AM I GONNA SEE? YEAH, SO WE WOULD, FIRST OF ALL, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE WAY WE'VE ORIENTED THAT WE'VE CREATED A LITTLE MORE SEPARATION THERE THAN WE HAVE ON OLD STATE ROAD.
UM, THOSE ARE ORIENTED TO THE REAR.
SO YOU WOULD SEE REAR OF HOMES THERE.
BUT AGAIN, WE ABSOLUTELY, YOU KNOW, WOULD DO LANDSCAPING, UH, SCREENING AND BUFFERING ALONG THERE.
AND AGAIN, LOOK AT SIMILAR THINGS.
WE HAVE TO WORK WITH THE TOPOGRAPHY OF, OF THE SITE.
THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ON OLD STATE ROAD KIND OF LENDS ITSELF TO DROPPING THOSE ELEVATIONS DOWN BECAUSE THE SITE GRADUALLY FALLS AWAY FROM OLD STATE ROAD.
UH, A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT CONDITION THERE, UH, OVER SECOND HALF.
BUT YEAH, SO WE, YOU CAN SEE THERE, WE'VE SET THE HOMES BACK A LITTLE BIT FURTHER AND WE ARE PROPOSING SOME SIGNIFICANT LANDSCAPING BURNING SCREENING IN THERE AS WELL.
SO YOU SOUND REALLY BAD WITH CONCEPTUALIZING THINGS.
UM, AND, AND JUST SO WE ACTUALLY ARE WORKING ON, AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE CAN TRY AND SHOW YOU, UH, IN TWO WEEKS AT THE NEXT CLINIC COMMISS MEETING IS SOME RENDERINGS OF WHAT THAT MAY LOOK LIKE, RIGHT? LIKE
[01:30:01]
THE FRONT VIEW? YEAH, YEAH, EXACTLY.HEY, WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT WOULD POTENTIALLY LOOK LIKE? AGAIN, WE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT GONNA BE PERFECT, IT'S NOT GONNA BE EXACT, BUT AT LEAST TRY TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION OF WHAT THAT WOULD BE.
AND I WOULD JUST POINT OUT LIKE ANY OF THE OPEN SPACE THAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE IS GONNA BE MAINTAINED BY THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION.
SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MANICURED BONDS, MANICURED SHRUBBERY, MANICURED TREES.
I MEAN, YEAH, I DON'T WANT, I MEAN, IT'S A FIELD NOW, SO I MEAN, YOU THINK MANICUR IS GONNA BE NICER, BUT, UM, YEAH, MY BIGGEST EXPERIENCE, I JUST DIDN'T WANNA, LIKE EVERY DAY I LEAVE, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S OPEN, BUT I MEAN THE WHOLE AREA IS OPEN, RIGHT? SURE.
UM, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE LIKE THOSE MONSTROSITIES IN KING OF PRUSSIA AND EVEN HONESTLY BY WHAT MEANT, LIKE I JUST WANNA WALK OUT AND SEE LIKE, YOU KNOW, THREE, FOUR STORIES OF LIKE, THEY LOOK LIKE COMMUNIST BLOCKHOUSE IS WHAT THEY'RE BUILDING NOW.
SO YEAH, NO, EVERYTHING YOU SEE THERE IN THAT LOWER SECTION BELOW THAT ENTRANCE IS, IS WOULD JUST BE TWO STORY FROM, FROM THE EC.
UH, THREE, I DON'T LIKE THIS RAO 3 74 VISTA DRIVE.
UM, SO THANK YOU FOR COMING OUT AND HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE AND TALK WITH YOU ABOUT YOUR PLANS.
UM, I'M HERE ALSO AS, UH, PART OF THE PARKHOUSE FRIENDS, ONE OF THE PEOPLE ON THE COMMITTEE ASKED ME TO PRESENT SOME PICTURES AND I'LL GIVE TO JEFF TO PUT IN THE RECORD I GUESS.
AND REALLY IT'S JUST, UM, FOR ANYBODY THAT LIVES AROUND HERE RECENTLY, THE BACKED UP TRAFFIC FROM THE BRIDGE THAT'S DECONSTRUCTED UP TO THE NURSING HOME, YOU KNOW, WALL OF CARS, ANYBODY WHO LIVES AROUND HERE KNOWS WHAT THESE ARE LIKE.
BUT HE ASKED ME TO PRESENT THEM AND ALSO READ JUST A SHORT STATEMENT, UM, AND ASKED ABOUT THE PARKING.
AND WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE TRAFFIC IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY.
SO HIS COMMENTS WERE, I KNOW THE REBUTTAL ON THE TRAFFIC IMPACT, UH, WILL BE A ROUNDABOUT AND THE BRIDGE WILL BE REPAIRED.
BUT THE REALITY IS THE SITUATION WILL JUST BE THE PROVERBIAL LIPSTICK ON A PIG.
IT'S THE AMOUNT OF CARS AND IF THERE'S ANYTHING GOES WRONG, THIS WILL STILL HAPPEN.
SO YOU'LL HAVE A PRETTY ROUNDABOUT ON NEW BRIDGE, BUT THAT WON'T CHANGE THE SHARE NUMBERS OF CARS.
I'M SURE THIS IS DUE TO THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A PRETTY BIG PROBLEM ON 4 22, BUT GUESS WHAT? THERE'S ALWAYS A PROBLEM ON 4 22.
SO IT'S JUST SOMEBODY'S COMMENT.
SO JEFF, IF YOU DON'T MIND, I'LL JUST GIVE THANKS.
WELL JUST, JUST PASS ON TO HIM WHEN YOU TALK TO HIM BACK TO HIM THAT THIS IS 630, 12 0 3.
AND AJ, THIS IS OUR FRIEND, UH, JEFFREY WHO LIVES AT 360 8 VISTA DRIVE.
UM, SO I, I WASN'T SURE WHAT I WANTED TO SAY TONIGHT, BUT I'VE, UH, I HAVE A FEW, UH, THOUGHTS AS I SIT HERE AND LOOK AT THE PLAN AND, UM, RECOGNIZING NOW, WOW, I'VE BEEN HERE FOR A LITTLE LONGER THAN I REALIZED, UM, ALMOST 30 YEARS IN THE DISTRICT.
AND I THINK ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT THE DEVELOPER MISSES THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS, UH, PLANNING COMMUNITY, UM, IS, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL BUILD, THEY'LL COME, THEY'LL LEAVE, RIGHT? THEY'LL MAKE THEIR MONEY AGAIN IF WE GOTTA WORK WITH THEM TO SOME DEGREE.
BUT I THINK, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, I'VE SERVED ON THE SCHOOL BOARD FOR EIGHT YEARS.
UM, WHAT'S CLEARLY MISSING HERE, THE SCHOOL'S AT THE MAX NOW, LIKE YEAH, I WILL ACKNOWLEDGE WE'VE HAD A PLATEAU FOR THE LAST EIGHT TO 10 YEARS.
THE CORE IN THE HIGH SCHOOL IS BUILT TO THE MAX.
WHEN I STARTED HERE ON THE SCHOOL BOARD, WE BUILT THREE NEW ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, RENOVATED THE MIDDLE SCHOOL.
OUR HIGH SCHOOL BECAME A NINTH GRADE CENTER AND WE HADN'T EVEN FINISHED THE HIGH SCHOOL AND WE HAD TO ADD ON TO THE HIGH SCHOOL.
BUT THE CORE IS BUILT, IT'S DONE.
UNFORTUNATELY, YOU'RE BUILDING IN THE WORST PART OF THE DISTRICT.
ALL THOSE HOMES ARE GONNA GO TO AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL THAT CAN'T HANDLE ANY MORE STUDENTS.
I DON'T CARE WHAT THE PLANS SAY.
I'VE BEEN AROUND, I SEE HOW THIS STUFF WORKS.
THIS DOESN'T FIT INTO THIS AREA OF THE COMMUNITY.
I LIVE, I WISH I HAD THE POINTER ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE COMMUNITY OFF A DRIVERLESS DRIVE.
I WILL NEVER, NEVER BE ABLE TO RIDE MY BIKE OUT AND MAKE A LEFT OR GO UP SECOND AVENUE AND TURN UP OLD STATE ROAD.
SO THAT'S UN WHAT FUNNY DO YOU THINK, WHAT DO YOU, WHAT'S AN ALTERNATIVE FOR ME? WELL, FOR I, I, LEGITIMATE ALTERNATIVE.
I, I CAN'T EVEN LIVE, I, I STRUGGLE WITH R ONE A HUNDRED SEVENTY SIX HOUSES.
BUT AT LEAST LOOK AT THE MAP, YOU CAN SEE WHAT'S AROUND THERE.
WE'RE AT THE CORNER OF THE COMMUNITY.
THERE'S WETLANDS BELOW US, THERE'S NO HOMES ABOVE US.
OTHERS HAVE TALKED ABOUT ALL THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENTS THAT WE'VE BEEN BUILDING THE APARTMENT, WE'RE GONNA GET KILLED
[01:35:01]
DOWN HERE NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO.IT, IT, 600 IS FINE, LET'S GO, LET'S LOSE ON, I'LL STAND ON THE GROUND ON 1203 AND DIE.
BECAUSE I, I DON'T THINK WE CAN HANDLE THIS.
I'VE JUST, I'D LOVE TO COME UP WITH AN OPTION.
AND, AND THE CHALLENGE I HAVE WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS TOO AND MY COMMUNITY IS SEEING IT AND I DIDN'T APPRECIATE IT WHEN I WAS 16 LIVING WITH MY GRANDFATHER AND I SAW A MCDONALD'S CLOSED 'CAUSE THE COMMUNITY GOT OLD AND TURNED OVER IN MY COMMUNITY.
NOW I'M IN A, A 63 HOUSE COMMUNITY THAT MORE THAN HALF OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE WHEN I BUILT ARE GONE.
AND GUESS WHAT'S MOVING IN? MY NEIGHBOR WITH HIS KIDS THAT WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE ARE GONE.
I'M LOVING IT 'CAUSE IT'S ALL NEW KIDS AGAIN.
BUT GUESS WHAT, WE DON'T EVEN SEE THAT LIKE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT NOW, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THEY DON'T SEE THAT COMING IN AND IT'S COMING.
SO WE'RE GONNA BE REALLY CHALLENGED, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE ANYBODY WHO KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT THE SCHOOLS, LIKE I SAID, IS THE DISTRICT'S ALREADY BUILT TO A MAX.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO EITHER REDISTRICT, ADD ON TO SPRING CITY, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST GONNA BE A NIGHTMARE FOR US.
AGAIN, TO YOUR POINT, I THINK IT'S A GREAT ONE.
WHAT ARE SOME OPTIONS? 'CAUSE I KNOW THEY HAVE TO BUILD SOMETHING, RIGHT? I I UNDERSTAND THAT.
UH, WELL THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BUILD SOMETHING.
THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BUILD SOMETHING.
I ABSOLUTELY, I I AND I'M, I'M HERE TO TRY TO SEE IF I COULD HELP, BUT I JUST CAN'T SEE 600 AND SOMEBODY MENTIONED, UH, TRY TO HELP SOME SMALL OUT.
SO THAT LITTLE ROAD THAT COMES OFF TO THE BACKSIDE ON SECOND AVENUE, PLEASE DO NOT PUT AN ENTRANCEWAY OUT THERE.
I RIDE MY BIKE LEFT UP SECOND AVENUE.
THAT ROAD IS JUST PAST THE HOUSE.
IT'S A SHOCK CURVE COMING AROUND OFF OF, UM, OLD STATE ROAD THAT PEOPLE ARE COMING 40 MILES AN HOUR ON.
YOU'RE GONNA KILL PEOPLE COMING AROUND THAT CORNER.
IT'S GONNA BE A, IF THE POLICE CHIEF WERE HERE, IT, HE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST A, THAT'S JUST AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN THERE.
AND THE POINT ABOUT, UM, THE ROADS OVER HERE.
FOUR LANE HIGHWAY INTO PHOENIXVILLE AND UP TO 29.
'CAUSE THERE'S NO WAY YOU'RE GONNA MILL THAT TRAFFIC IN GOING OUT OF THE TOWNSHIP OR UP TO TOWNSHIP ROAD.
AND THEN WHAT'S GONNA FORCE EVERYBODY TO DO IS GO ON AN AREA WHAT YOU HAVEN'T TO, THEY'RE JUST GONNA ALL GO ON ALLSTATE ROAD 'CAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO GET, THEY'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO GET OUT DOWN BELOW.
SO I THINK THAT CHALLENGE IS GONNA BE AN OLD STATE ROAD.
THERE'S JUST NO WAY TO FIX THAT.
SORRY, I I I REALLY, I I WISH I COULD COME UP WITH SOME BETTER ALTERNATIVES.
THE ONLY OTHER THING I WANTED TO POINT OUT, AND UNFORTUNATELY BLAKE WHO IS ON OUR COMMITTEE WHO DID A REALLY GREAT JOB OF THE ZONING COMPARISON BETWEEN WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE AND WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED TO US.
UM, IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT, WE'VE DONE IT.
WE CAN SEND YOU GUYS THE INFORMATION ON IT.
'CAUSE WE PASSED ON THE LAST ZONING REQUEST.
MAYBE THAT'S NEEDED NOW TO GET THIS BUILT.
BUT THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS IN THERE THAT ARE JUST REALLY BAD FOR THE COMMUNITY.
THE HEIGHT, THE SETBACKS, IT JUST POINT FOR POINT.
IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT, I'M SURE TORI OR SOMEBODY CAN PROVIDE THAT.
WE CAN CERTAINLY PROVIDE THAT.
'CAUSE WE WANNA HELP YOU GUYS TOO.
'CAUSE TO YOUR POINT, THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BUILD SOMETHING.
I WANNA HELP AND WORK WITH IT, BUT I JUST CAN'T SEE THIS WORKING FOR ANYBODY HERE.
IF YOU CAN HAVE BLAKE SEND ME THE MOST CURRENT ONE, JUST MAKE SURE I'M DISTRIBUTING THE RIGHT ONE.
I DON'T WANNA GO BACK TO MY FILES AND SEND 'EM THE WRONG THING.
DO NOT, I, WE, WE WILL DO THAT FOR YOU.
ANY OF THAT KIND OF STUFF YOU HAVE SEND TO JACK AND HE DISTRIBUTES IT.
SO AGAIN, AND I KNOW YOU GUYS HAVE NOT A CHANCE TO TALK TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS, SO I'M, I'M MORE THAN HAPPY.
I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO WORK HARD TO GET THAT INFORMATION THAT, UM, ONE OF THE BOARD SUPERVISORS ASKED FOR LAST MONTH.
SO WE HAVE, AND WE PRESENTED IT AND JUST TO BE FAIR, WHAT YOU'VE SAID IS I DON'T BELIEVE IT.
AND THAT CAME FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT YOU, YOU SERVED ON THE BOARD SAID, SO WE WE'RE TRYING TO COME AND, AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.
WHAT I CAN'T ANSWER FOR YOU IS IF YOU TELL ME, WELL YOU WENT AND DID WHAT WAS ASKED.
YOU GOT THE INFORMATION DIRECTLY FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
I I CAN'T ANSWER THAT FOR YOU.
WHAT I SAID IS THAT WE STARTED, WE'RE NOT WORKING FROM THE SAME SET OF FACTS.
WE STARTED 120 STUDENTS, WE WENT TO TWO 50.
AND WE HAVEN'T REALLY HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE COMMUNITY AND THE CHANGES IN THE COMMUNITY THAT I'M NOT SO SURE THE SCHOOL BOARD REALLY SEES THE TURNOVER HERE.
AND LIKE I SAID, WE PLATEAUED FOR DEVELOPMENT.
ANYBODY WHO'S BEEN HERE FOR 20 YEARS, HUGE DEVELOPMENT HERE FROM 2007 TO 17 AND THEN IT FLATTENED OUT.
HAS THE DISTRICT BEEN AT A FLATTEN POINT? SURE.
BUT NOW WE'RE DUMPING THIS THING ON IT.
AND THAT'S THE BIGGEST DEVELOPMENT I'VE SEEN AROUND HERE IN YEARS.
THE POPULATION INCREASED 18% IN THE TIME THAT THAT ENROLLMENT STAYED FLAT.
WHAT'S THAT? THE POPULATION INCREASED 18% IN THE TIME THAT ENROLLMENT STAYED FLAT.
I I WHAT TO YOUR POINT IS THERE WAS CONSTRUCTION, THERE WAS DEVELOPMENT AND THE ENROLLMENT STAYED FLAT.
SO, SO WE'RE NOT HERE TO TELL YOU, BUT AGAIN, ALL WE CAN DO IS WORK WITH THE FACTS THAT ARE PROVIDED FROM THE SOURCES THAT WE HAVE.
WHICH ARE THE SAME SOURCES AVAILABLE TO YOU.
SO THAT'S THE 18% THAT GREW FROM 17 TO 2224 YOU'RE SAYING? YEAH.
[01:40:01]
SO WHAT WAS IT? SO WHAT WAS IT? SO ASK ME OR FIND OUT FOR ME, WHAT WAS IT FROM 2006 TO 2014? 'CAUSE I CAN GUARANTEE IT WASN'T 18%RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT KILLED THE DISTRICT.
I SERVED ON IT LIKE WE ARE MAXED OUT.
LIKE THE SCHOOL CANNOT TAKE 600 MORE STUDENTS.
THERE'S JUST NO ROOM IN THE DISTRICT FOR IT.
WELL I REMEMBER, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BETWEEN 2000 AND 2010, WE WERE 33%.
WE, WE, I, WE ALL AGREE WITH YOU, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO FIND, I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO FIND AN MEDIUM.
AND I GIVE THESE GUYS SOME CREDIT.
I MEAN, WE MIGHT NOT LIKE THIS, BUT THEY'RE TRYING.
AND I DO APPRECIATE, I RECOGNIZE GOING FROM 1203 TO 600, YOU KNOW, I'M HOPING FOR A LOT LESS.
AND YOU HEARD ME EARLIER, ASK ED, THERE'S 1203 OFF THE DATE.
ONE R ONE AND LEMME JUST ADD, WE AIN'T GONNA GO R ONE, FORGET THAT.
AND, AND RAY YOU HEARD NO, WHY NOT? 'CAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO DO THAT.
ASK THE GENTLEMAN CAN'T AFFORD TO THAT AREA.
AND RAY, THANKS AND RAY, WE SAW YOU LAST TIME.
SO HE'S COMING BACK AND YOU HEARD GARY BERMAN DON'T BE CALLING OUT.
WE WANT TO SPEAK, COME UP TO THE DATE.
YOU, YOU HAVE HEARD GARY BERMAN SAY TOO, HE, YOU KNOW, HE'S TRYING TO FIND A WIN HERE AS WELL.
YOU KNOW, AND, AND HE IS IN THIS PLAN.
HE'S DONATING HALF OF HIS PROPERTY TO THE TOWNSHIP, WHICH WE'VE HEARD A LOT ABOUT TRAIL TRAIL NETWORKS AND CONNECTIONS.
AND I DO FEEL LIKE THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE PEDESTRIAN TRAILS HERE TO CONNECT NOT ONLY CHESTER COUNTY TO MONTGOMERY COUNTY, BUT UPPER PARTS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT MAYBE THAT DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO TRAILHEADS NOW.
SO I DO THINK THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF AMENITIES PROVIDED HERE, BUT I, WE UNDERSTAND WE WANNA WORK WITH YOU GUYS.
AND, AND AGAIN, I I I, AGAIN, I KNOW IT'S A SKETCH PLAN.
I'M JUST TRYING TO POINT OUT SOME THINGS.
THAT ROAD IS GONNA BE A DISASTER AND PEOPLE ARE GONNA SCREW OUT THE ABOUT SIDE.
TRY TO KEEP PEOPLE OFF SECOND HALF.
'CAUSE THAT CURVE IS PRETTY DANGEROUS.
THE SHARP LEFT OFF OF OLD STATE ROAD.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST, IT'S A CHALLENGE.
THANK YOU FOR, UH, BEING REASONABLE.
COULD YOU GIVE US YOUR ADDRESS? FIVE SEVEN BENINGTON ROAD.
I SEE Y'ALL ARE DOING A LOT OF STUDIES, RIGHT? HAVE YOU ALL DONE ANY STUDY OF HAPPINESS INDEX ONE? IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE ROOM, YOU SEE NOBODY IS HAPPIER AND THE FUTURE RESIDENTS WHO ARE GOING TO COME, THEY, THEY'RE ALSO NOT GOING TO BE HAPPY BECAUSE OF ALL THE REASONS THAT ARE BEING PRESENTED.
WHAT ARE THE REASONS? TRAFFIC, THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER JUST GIVEN A ELABORATE THING OF WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT STILL Y'ALL ARE NOT LISTENING.
WHO'S GOING TO LISTEN TO THE RESIDENTS? LOOK AT THEM.
I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE DEVELOPER AND SPEAK AND WANT HIM TO LOOK EYE TO EYE IN THIS PEOPLE'S EYES AND UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.
AFTER 10 YEARS, WE WILL DO A STUDY ON THIS HAPPINESS INDEX.
PEOPLE SITTING HERE, YOU WON'T BE HERE.
OR YOU MAY BE THERE THAT TIME.
YOU WILL SEE THE HAPPINESS INDEX OF THIS COMMUNITY GONE DOWN SO BAD AND
YOU LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER? EIGHT IS NO, PLEASE LOOK DEEP IN YOUR HEARTS, YOU'LL HAVE SOMEONE TO ANSWER.
BUT HERE PEOPLE ARE ONLY FOCUSED ON MONEY.
TO WHAT EXTENT YOU CAN GO ANYWHERE ELSE.
BUT WHY THIS COMMUNITY? LOOK AT THE PASSION THESE PEOPLE ARE HAVING EVERY MEETING.
THEY'RE COMING AND STANDING HERE.
SECONDLY, WHO'S GOING TO TALK ON BEHALF OF THESE ANIMALS HERE? THE WILDLIFE.
I'LL READ OUT THE NAMES OF THE, UH, ANIMALS.
SO MANY WHO'S GOING TO BE TAKING CARE OF THEM.
WHAT ABOUT THE MIGRATION ROUTE THAT WE HAVE HERE? HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT IT? RIGHT IN FRONT OF US, WE HAVE THIS PARK.
WE THOUGHT IT JUST GOING TO BE ONE BUILDING AND THEN THE SPACE IS GOING TO BE OPEN.
LOOK AT, COME INTO THE SUNRISE AND SUNSET AND ENJOY THIS BEAUTY.
YOU'LL HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT.
[01:45:02]
PLEASE, SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT THIS.IT'S A VERY, VERY BRAVE DECISION ON THE PART OF THE DEVELOPER TO REALLY LOOK INTO HIS OWN HEART.
I'M ADDRESSING TO HIM AND THEN DECIDE WHAT HE HAS TO DO.
AM I, YOU DON'T HEAR ME?
UM, YOU ASKED A COUPLE TIMES, UM, TOM, UH, TONIGHT WHETHER, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT ARE ALTERNATIVES? I I HAVE TWO.
AND, AND I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO, I'D LOVE TO HEARING.
ONE IS IF YOU BOUGHT, IF YOU BUY, OR IF YOU BUILD 36 ESTATES, AND THEY COULD BE FIVE ACRE ESTATES AND THEY CAN BE REALLY DECKED OUT, LIKE, YOU KNOW, ORDER, ORDER OF SOMETHING THAT WOULD QUALIFY FOR A $10 MILLION PRICE TAG.
THE BUILDER GOOD, COULD EASILY DO THAT.
UM, THEY COULD, THEY COULD BUILD THE ESTATES, GET 'EM OUT.
AND UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S THE, AGAIN, THAT'S THE ONE OPTION.
UM, THE SECOND OPTION IS GET A GRANT, UH, FROM THE STATE, UH, YOU KNOW, FROM THE FEDERAL, FROM THE STATE AND BOTANICAL, UH, UH, BOTANICAL GARDEN BILLETTE.
SO, SO THEY ARE TWO, TWO OPTIONS THAT I CAN THINK OF.
SO YOU'RE SAYING PURCHASE THE PROPERTY FROM THE R FOR HOLDINGS? WELL, FOR THE BOTANICAL GARDEN, YES.
THE GRANT WOULD PURCHASE THE PROPERTY AND THEN BUILD A BOTANICAL GARDEN FOR IT, UH, ON, AND THEN THE BUILDER COULD PROPOSE AGAIN, FIVE ACRE AND, AND DON'T GIVE ANY, DON'T GIVE ANY, YOU, YOU SEEM TO REALLY, UH, ELABORATE ON THE FACT THAT YOU'RE GIVING THE PROPERTY AWAY.
UH, YOU KNOW, TO THE TOWNSHIP.
DON'T, DON'T GIVE IT TO THE TOWNSHIP.
IT, IT, I MEAN THERE, THERE ARE MANY ISSUES WITH, WITH GIVING IT TO THE TOWNSHIP LIKE THAT.
UM, IF YOU, IF YOU DIVIDE THE 1 79 AND INTO WITH, WITH FIVE DIVIDED BY FIVE, UM, THEN YOU CAN MAKE OUT, UH, YOU CAN, UH, THAT COMES OUT TO LIKE CLOSE TO 36.
AND THEN YOU COULD BUILD 36 ESTATES AT $10 MILLION PER, THEN YOU, THAT'S $360 MILLION AND YOU ARE NOT GOING TO, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE, I SAW A NUMBER LIKE 245 MILLION IS, IS WHAT IF, IF YOU TAKE THE 600 TIMES IT BY, UM, THE 300,000, WHICH IS PROBABLY, UH, EXCESSIVE FOR SOME OF THE HOMES, YOU KNOW, BUT SAY, SAY AN AVERAGE OF OF 300,000, UH, FOR THE HOME, THEN YOU, THAT ONLY COMES OUT TO LIKE WITHIN IT, UH, LIKE 298 MILLION, UH, 298 MILLION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, I, I, I, I CAN'T, I, I DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER RIGHT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
BUT THE POINT IS, YOU CAN SAY YOU CAN GET THE SAME DOLLAR AMOUNT IF YOU MAKE, IF YOU BUILD FIVE ACRE ESTATE LOTS, 36 OF THEM, AND A DEC OF OIL, YOU KNOW, FOR, AND THESE WOULD BE FOR, YOU KNOW, THE HIGH, THE HIGH END.
AND, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF COMMUNITY, COMMUNITY PEOPLE WHO,
[01:50:01]
YOU KNOW, SHOULD BE ABLE TO OF AFFORD, UM, WITH WITHIN THE SAME CATEGORY, YOU KNOW, TO AFFORD A, A, A $10 MILLION ESTATE.UH, SO ANYWAY, THAT THAT'S THERE, THERE THEY ARE THE TWO OPTIONS THAT I CAN SEE RIGHT OFF THE BAT.
AND I'M SURE THAT THERE'S PROBABLY OTHERS, UM, THAT THINK OUT OF THE BOX.
AND I, I APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHT ON IT.
I CAN TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, WE, THIS IS WHAT WE DO FOR, FOR, YOU KNOW, OUR LIVELIHOODS, UM, THAT 36, $10 MILLION HOMES ISN'T, ISN'T FEASIBLE HERE.
AND, AND, YOU KNOW, FINANCIALLY DOESN'T WORK.
AND, AND FRANKLY, I'M NOT SURE AT THE END OF THE DAY THAT HAVING 36, $10 MILLION IN STATES IS A, IS A BETTER OUTCOME FOR THE COMMUNITY.
UM, BUT I, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE HAVE TRIED TO DO IS EXTEND THAT COMPROMISE WITH THE 600 UNIT PLAN.
I UNDERSTAND IT'S STILL A LOT OF HOMES.
I UNDERSTAND THAT EVERYBODY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT BE LESS, BUT THIS IS GENUINELY AN EFFORT TO, TO GO TOWARDS WHERE YOU'RE GOING.
UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN WE HAVE A ZONING THAT PERMITS FOR 1,203 UNITS AND A PROPERTY OWNER WHO PAID FOR THE PROPERTY, BOUGHT THE PROPERTY, UM, FROM THE COUNTY 12 YEARS AGO, IS THAT THE, THE, YOU KNOW, IT, IT HAS TO WORK FINANCIALLY AS WELL AS FROM A DEVELOPMENT PERSPECTIVE.
UM, THE OTHER, UH, OTHER COMMENT IS THAT, UH, WHEN CHANGE, UM, THAT IS BEING PROPOSED, UH, THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION TODAY ON, UM, TRAFFIC STUDIES.
AND UNLESS I'M MISSING IT, I COULD SWEAR THAT I DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME, BUT I COULD SWEAR THAT THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS, WAS REMOVED FROM THE ORDINANCE, PROPOSED PROPOSED ORDINANCE.
SO IT IS NOT, IT IS REQUIRED AS PART OF THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE OF TRAFFIC STUDY.
I'LL, I'LL DEFER TO MR. LEON, BUT DEFER INFERRAL.
IT'S THE TRAFFIC, THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY IS REQUIREMENT.
SO, SO IT IT IT IS, UH, IN THE ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW? YES, THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE.
I HEARD BRYCE HARPER WAS LOOKING FOR A NEW HOME, WASN'T IT?
HE JUST HAD A, YOU HAVE 35 PATRICIA SOLD.
UM, YOU TALK ABOUT THE TRAILS THAT WOULD BE, UH, CONSTRUCTED IN THE OPEN SPACE.
WHERE WILL PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE THE COMMUNITY PARK TO ENJOY THAT SPACE? OR WILL ALL OF THE, WILL THERE BE PARKING AVAILABLE FOR OTHER THAN THE RESIDENTS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY? SO I THINK WHAT THE, THE QUESTION ABOUT TRAILS, UH, THAT WAS ORIGINALLY ASKED, AND I BELIEVE RENNY IS PART OF THIS, OPENING COMMENTS AND TALKED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF TRAILS.
AGAIN, WE'RE IN THE VERY INITIAL STAGES.
UH, WE DIDN'T WANT TO BE PRESUMPTUOUS AND SHOW TRAILS ON THIS PLAN WITHOUT HAVING FURTHER CONVERSATIONS WITH THE COUNTY AND THE TOWNSHIP TO DETERMINE WHERE THOSE TRAILS SHOULD BE LOCATED.
ARE THERE CONNECTIONS THAT ARE MISSING? ARE THERE PRIORITIES THAT THE COUNTY MAY WANNA UNDERTAKE IN TERMS OF EXTENSIONS OF TRAILS? UM, SO WHAT WE'VE COMMITTED TO DO IS WORKING WITH THE TOWNSHIP, UH, AND THE COUNTY TO DETERMINE WHERE THOSE TRAILS SHOULD GO, UM, AND WHAT'S APPROPRIATE, UH, NOT ONLY INTERNALLY FOR THE RESIDENTS OF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT, BUT ALSO EXTERNALLY FOR THE RESIDENTS OF THE COMMUNITY.
UM, SO PART OF THAT POTENTIAL TRAIL HEADS, PARKING AREAS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE WOULD ALL BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.
AND WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT IF IT WAS SOLELY UP TO US, WE ABSOLUTELY WOULD CREATE THOSE CONNECTIONS AND CREATE A CONNECTION ULTIMATELY TO THE SCHUELL RIVER TRAIL.
BUT IT INVOLVES INPUT, OBVIOUSLY FROM THE TOWNSHIP AND THE COUNTY.
'CAUSE THAT'S ULTIMATELY THE COUNTY'S LAND ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
I, UM, CROSSED WITH THE DOG OFF SOUTH TRAP.
I CROSSED ONE 13 AGAIN, AS TORY POINTED OUT, IF, GOD FORBID, THE DOG DOESN'T WANNA RUN AS FAST AS I DO, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO CROSS ONE 13 TO GET TO THE, UH, PARK, GET DOWN TO THE GOOGLE RIVER.
SO SOMETHING WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE ALONG SIDEWALKS, CROSSWALKS, SOMETHING THAT WOULD ALLOW PEDESTRIANS ACCESS.
[01:55:01]
AS WE SAID, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE WOULD LOOK TO INCORPORATE.IT'S JUST BECAUSE IT INVOLVES OTHER STAKEHOLDERS.
WE CAN'T JUST SAY, OKAY, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO, AND THEN THAT'S IT.
BUT YES, THAT, THOSE ARE ABSOLUTELY THINGS THAT WE WANT TO INCORPORATE IT.
HELEN HOLLAND, 74 KIA COOK ROAD.
AND MY QUESTION IS, UH, YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY ALREADY, UH, CONSIDERING THE 1,203, WHAT KIND OF HOUSING WOULD THAT BE? I'D SAY AGE RESTRICTED HOUSING.
WOULD IT BE WHAT KIND OF BUILDINGS? UH, SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED ATTACHED.
IT ALLOWS ACTUALLY, UH, MIDRISE BUILDINGS, I BELIEVE RON, YOU CAN, YEAH.
MIDRISE APARTMENTS, MID-RISE APARTMENTS UNDER THAT.
SO IT, YEAH, IT ALLOWS TALLER BUILDINGS, I THINK OVERALL THAN INSTITUTION.
I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE INSTITUTIONAL, LIKE NURSING HOME OR ASSISTED LIVING.
IT CAN BE, AND, AND THE RESIDENTS WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO SERVICES, BUT THEY CAN BE INDEPENDENT, UH, INDEPENDENT HOMES THAT PEOPLE OWN AND THEN HAVE ACCESS TO SERVICES AND FACILITIES FALL INTO THE JURISDICTION OF THE INSTITUTIONAL.
BUT REALLY MM-HMM,
AND I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION.
WHAT OTHER PROJECTED SALE PRICES, LIKE FOR THE SMALLEST UNIT FOR A YOUNG SINGLE PROFESSIONAL? SO WE'RE PROJECTING ON THIS SMALLEST UNITS, YOU KNOW, BASE PRICING SOMEWHERE AROUND $500,000 AND UPPER 400 IS LOW, 500.
AND THEN ALL THE WAY UP TO THE SINGLES, I THINK WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, COMPARABLE TO WHERE THE MARKET IS RIGHT NOW.
WHICH WOULD, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY BE CLOSE TO A MILLION DOLLARS FOR THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME.
THERE'S A SIZE OF THE LOT WE CAN PROBABLY GET PEOPLE TO BUY THEM.
I WONDER WHEN YOU COME UP, YOU AND AL AL'S SITTING BACK THERE.
HEY, YOU KNOW, THANKS TO THE COMMUNITY FOR EVERYBODY WHO, WHO SHOWED UP AND HAS STEPPED UP AND, AND, UH, EXPRESSED THEIR, THEIR, UH, FEELINGS ABOUT THIS.
UM, AND THANKS TO RAY, YOU KNOW, SPRING FORD SCHOOL DISTRICT IS A GREAT SCHOOL DISTRICT AND IT ATTRACTS KIDS, PEOPLE WITH CHILDREN WANNA LIVE IN SPRING FORD SCHOOL.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S GREAT TO KNOW.
UH, AND YOU KNOW, MR. LENNICK POINTED OUT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ZONING HERE.
WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC PLAN.
I MEAN, THIS IS A PLAN THAT WE'RE KICKING AROUND.
THIS IS SKETCHING, YOU KNOW, SCHOOL BUS STOPS AND, UH, THESE VARIOUS THING, ROAD ALIGNMENTS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.
SO WE'RE, YOU KNOW, PUTTING A LOT OF ENERGY INTO THIS.
THE LAND IS ZONED INSTITUTIONAL AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR A COMPROMISE.
BUT THIS PLAN, THE DENSITY, THERE'S NO COMPELLING REASON THAT WE SHOULD ACCEPT THIS DENSITY IN THIS PART OF THE TOWNSHIP.
THERE'S NO FINANCIAL, UH, COMPELLING REASON, WHICH THERE SHOULDN'T BE.
THAT SHOULDN'T BE, BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION.
SO, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S MY PIECE.
UM, MAYBE USE THE OTHER, YEAH, I'LL JUST TALK LOUD.
UH, BACK IN 2020, THERE WAS A BEAUTIFUL VERSION OF THIS PROPERTY BEING DEVELOPED WITH HORSE STABLES, FARMERS PLOTS, CUTE TREE LINED STREETS WITH NICE WAVY TURNS, BUT THERE WAS NO MENTION OF HOME DENSITY.
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THAT CUTE WATER FOUNTAIN TYPE DISTRICT DESIGNED OF THIS PROPERTY.
WE WEREN'T INVOLVED WITH THAT APPLICATION, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE TOWNSHIP DIDN'T WANNA SEE US.
IT WAS REJECTED, WAS REJECTED OUT OF HAND, OR I BELIEVE 650 UNITS ON THAT.
AND, UH, IN ADDITION, SOME COMMERCIAL AND, UH, THEN HORSE FARMS, AS I SAID.
AND, UM, THE TOWNSHIP SAID NO, AND
[02:00:02]
IT'S OFF THE TABLE.SAME OWNER AT, PARDON ME, SAME OWNER AT THAT TIME.
SAME, BUT ACTUALLY A CHANGE IN, IN LEADERSHIP OF THE OWNER.
SAME TECHNICAL OWNER, BUT CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP.
THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR ON THAT.
BECAUSE MR. RIFKIN WAS ON THAT CALL.
RIFKIN IS NO LONGER IN MANAGEMENT OF THE ENTITY, BUT HE IS STILL AN OWNERSHIP AND MAJORITY STAKEHOLDER.
I HAVE NO IDEA, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
I KNOW, I THINK HE'S AN OWNER, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S 2% OR 10% OR 50%, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT HE'S NOT MAKING THE DECISION, I THINK IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE.
SO HAVE THERE BEEN ANY ATTEMPTS TO ACQUIRE THE STECKEL RESIDENCE, WHICH IS ON THE CORNER OF SECOND AVENUE AND YEAGER ROAD? I DON'T KNOW THAT.
'CAUSE JUST IN DEALING WITH PHOENIXVILLE AND ISSUES WITH DEVELOPMENTS AND REALIGNING STREETS, THAT IS A VERY DANGEROUS INTERSECTION THAT HAS MULTIPLE ACCIDENTS AT IT EVERY YEAR.
I PERSONALLY HAVE PULLED OUT MULTIPLE TRACTOR TRAILERS THAT TRY AND TURN DOWN JAGER ROAD.
SO IN THE EVENT THAT THIS PROJECT WERE TO COME TO FRUITION, WOULD THAT BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE BOROUGH, OR SORRY, TOWNSHIP TO EMINENT DOMAIN, THAT PROPERTY BECAUSE IT BECOMES A SAFETY HAZARD FOR THE RESIDENTS OF UPPER PROVIDENCE? YOU HAVE TO ASK AN ATTORNEY ON THAT.
SO, MR. ELLEN, YOU WANNA ADDRESS THAT ON YOUR END OR? THERE'S A LOT OF FACTORS HERE THAT ARE BEING MISCONSTRUED AND MISSED, FRANKLY, FOR THE SAFETY OF THEIR EXISTING RESIDENCE IN MY HOME, IF I HAD A LASER POINTER, IT'S, UH, ABOUT A HUNDRED FEET FROM THAT INTERSECTION THAT ENTERS OFF SECOND AVENUE.
AND I PERSONALLY HAVE SEEN THREE ACCIDENTS JUST THIS YEAR ALONE IN RON ECKELS FRONT DRIVEWAY AND JAMES HOFFMAN'S TREELINE STREET.
THERE HAVE BEEN TWO THERE THIS YEAR.
SO A ZONING ORDINANCE DOES NOT ADDRESS TRAFFIC, DOES NOT ADDRESS INTERSECTIONS, DOES NOT ADDRESS SAFETY OR POLICING OF THAT MATTER.
WHAT IT DOES ADDRESS IS DENSITY, SPACING, DEVELOPMENT AND DEVELOPMENT TYPE.
THE STUDIES THAT DO ADDRESS TRAFFIC, TRANSPORTATION, SAFETY, ET CETERA, ARE DONE DURING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, INCLUDING THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY THAT IS REQUIRED BY THIS ORDINANCE TO BE SUBMITTED FOR APPROVAL OF THIS, OF AN EVENTUAL DEVELOPMENT OF THIS, THIS PROPERTY.
SO, ALTHOUGH THE APPLICANT HAS DONE TRAFFIC STUDIES PREVIOUSLY TO DETERMINE VARIOUS FACTORS ABOUT THE CONCEPTUAL PLAN OF THIS, THE TOWNSHIP WILL REQUIRE MORE, UH, ROBUST INFORMATION DURING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, SHOULD A PLAN OF GO FORWARD UNDER THIS ORDINANCE THAT WILL DETERMINE IF SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS ARE REQUIRED OR WARRANTED ON THE SURROUNDING ROADWAYS, THAT THAT NEED TO BE COMPLETED OR CONSTRUCTED BY THE APPLICANT OR DEVELOPER TO ADDRESS THOSE SAFETY CONCERNS.
WE'RE JUST NOT AT THE POINT OF THE PROCESS AT THIS TIME TO, TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE INTERSECTION OF OLD STATE AND SECOND AVENUE IS, UH, UH, IN A PROPER ENGINEERING CONFIGURATION OR PROPER GEOMETRY TO HANDLE THOSE ADDITIONAL TRIPS.
BUT THAT DOES GET ADDRESSED DURING THE PROCESS.
SO IN THE EVENT THAT THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY WOULD SAY THE INTERSECTION OF OLD STATE AND SECOND AVENUE NEEDS TO BE REALIGNED, WOULD THAT BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DEVELOPER OR WOULD THE TOWNSHIP THEN NEED TO STEP IN AND IT WOULD BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DEVELOPER IF THE IMPACT OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT IMPACTS THAT ROADWAY? WHAT, WHAT THAT CHANGE WOULD BE, UH, OR HOW EXTENSIVE IT WOULD BE, IS DETERMINED BY THE STUDIES THAT ARE DONE AS REVIEWED BY THE TOWNSHIP'S TOWNSHIP ENGINEER AND TRAFFIC ENGINEER TO, TO DETERMINE THE FEASIBILITY OR THE APPROPRIATENESS OF THOSE IMPROVEMENTS.
I'M TRYING TO TREAD CAREFULLY HERE WITH MY RESPONSE.
I HAVE A PROPERTY IN PHOENIXVILLE THAT A DEVELOPER UTILIZED MY PROPERTY WITHOUT MY PERMISSION IN THEIR PLANS WHEN I PUT MY FOOT DOWN AFTER THEY HAD APPROVALS THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE PERMISSION TO USE MY PROPERTY, THE BOROUGH EMINENT DOMAIN, MY PROPERTY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE DEVELOPER.
AND I'VE BEEN NOW IN A LAWSUIT WITH THE BOROUGH FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS.
I I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE OPERATIONS OR THE, THE LEGAL CONSIDERATIONS OF THE BOROUGH OF PHOENIXVILLE OR YOUR PARTICULAR SITUATION.
UH, THE, GENERALLY THE IMPROVEMENTS MUST BE DONE WITHIN THE RIGHT OF WAY OR ANY RIGHT OF WAY THAT CAN BE REQUIRED.
BUT AS I SAID, ANY POTENTIAL IMPROVEMENTS CAN'T BE DETERMINED UNTIL THOSE STUDIES ARE DONE AND WE'RE IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
[02:05:01]
UH, AT LEAST TWO STEPS AWAY FROM THAT, IF NOT MORE AT THIS POINT IN THE PROCESS.MAYBE YOU CAN BE AVAILABLE ON MAY 28TH FOR ME TO MEET ME IN, UH, WESTCHESTER.
JUDGE FDO WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE HEARING YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON THAT, BECAUSE I'VE SPENT A DISGUSTING AMOUNT OF MONEY PROTECTING MY PROPERTY RIGHTS.
AND I FEEL FOR PEOPLE LIKE RON STECKEL THAT RESIDE AT THAT RESIDENCE, THAT HE'S GONNA LIKELY BE THE VICTIM OF AN EMINENT DOMAIN ACTION FOR THE SAFEGUARD OF THIS DEVELOPMENT.
SO I, I COULD EXPAND UPON, UM, THE COMMENT ABOUT AT LEAST THE TOWNSHIP, AND OBVIOUSLY NO ONE HAS A CRYSTAL BALL, UH, BUT THE SECOND AVENUE IS A PENDO OWNED ROADWAY.
SO LET'S JUST TAKE FOR INSTANCE, YOUR THEORY THAT THE INTERSECTION WOULD NEED TO BE REDESIGNED.
UM, THAT'S EITHER DONE WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE EXISTING RIGHT OF WAY, OR IT'S INCUMBENT UPON THE DEVELOPER, THE APPLICANT TO ACQUIRE THE NECESSARY RIGHT OF WAY.
PENDOT WILL REQUIRE THAT THERE'S PROOF OF RIGHT OF WAY ACQUISITION OR EASEMENTS THAT ARE RECORDED IN THE COURTHOUSE.
PENDOT WILL NOT ABSOLUTELY NOT PARTICIPATE ON BEHALF OF A DEVELOPER TO ACQUIRE PROPERTY.
SO PENDO STANCE IS, IF YOU NEED RIGHT OF WAY TO EFFECTUATE AN IMPROVEMENT, IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO ACQUIRE THAT RIGHT OF WAY.
IF THE PROPERTY IS UNREASONABLE OR DOES NOT WANT TO COOPERATE, THEN YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH PLAN B THAT DOESN'T INVOLVE THE RIGHT OF WAY IN QUESTION.
SO PENDOT WILL NOT COME IN LATER AND SAY, I KNOW YOU GUYS GAVE IT A GOOD COLLEGE TRY, BUT WE'LL GO AHEAD AND TAKE IT FOR YOU.
AND IT'S NEVER BEEN AN OPTION BY 20 YEARS OF NINE AND YEARS OF DOING THIS.
BUT OLD STATE IS NOT PENNDOT, OLD STATE IS NOT PENN DOT.
I WILL TELL YOU THAT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN OVER A THOUSAND PROJECTS IN MY 29 YEARS, AND THERE HAS ONLY BEEN ONE INSTANCE WHERE A TOWNSHIP HAS ACQUIRED PROPERTY, UM, FOR A IMPROVEMENT.
UH, THAT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT 25 YEARS AGO, UH, FOR A LARGE ROUNDABOUT AT AN INTERSECTION.
AND THAT WAS IN COOPERATION WITH SIX OF THE SEVEN PROPERTY OWNERS.
AND THE SEVENTH PROPERTY OWNER WAS A SMALL SLIVER OF PROPERTY.
I BELIEVE THE TOWNSHIP DID EMINENT DOMAIN THAT PROPERTY THROUGH A PROCESS.
UM, BUT THAT'S THE ONLY PROJECT THAT I CAN THINK OF MY 29 YEARS OF DOING THIS WHERE THAT HAPPENED.
YOUR SPECIFIC SITUATION SOUNDS VERY ODD TO ME THAT THAT WOULD OCCUR.
BUT AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW THE, THE, THE DETAILS.
DO YOU WANNA JOIN MAY 28TH? COME ON DOWN.
UM, ANOTHER QUESTION REGARDING THE 25, I THINK PERCENT FOR SENIOR LIVING, WILL THAT BE DEED RESTRICTED OR IS THAT HOA REGULATED? NO, THOSE ARE ARE.
AND ED, YOU CAN, YOU CAN SPEAK THAT IF YOU WANT.
THERE'LL, THERE'LL BE A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION FOR THE ENTIRE PROJECT, AND THAT PORTION OF IT WILL BE LIMITED TO PEOPLE WHO ARE 55 OF YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER AND CANNOT BE CHANGED.
SO IT'LL BE DE RESTRICTED, UH, PERMANENTLY.
AND THE, AND THEN IN THE DECLARATION, IT ALSO PROVIDES THAT THE TOWNSHIP HAS POWERS TO COME IN IF THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATIONS NOT OPERATING PROPERLY, FINDING THAT CONFLICTING.
'CAUSE HOAS CAN HAVE A HIERARCHY TO VOTE TO CHANGE THEIR BYLAWS.
YOU'RE SAYING DEED AND HOA NOT THIS BYLAW THAT'S ON RECORD.
PARDON ME? THIS IS ON FOR THE RECORD THEN IS ON THE RECORD.
I MEAN, AND MR, THAT'S WHAT, IF WE GET THAT FOR MR. HEC WILL BE REVIEWING IT AND WE'LL MAKE SURE IT'S ON THE RECORD.
AND THEN THIS IS NOT RELATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT, BUT JUST TOWARDS THE PROPERTY OWNER.
IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN GET THIS PROPERTY OWNER TO START PICKING UP THE LITTERING FROM THE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE DRIVING BY? 'CAUSE IT'S JUST BETWEEN Y UH, OLD STATE AND THE ROUNDABOUT INTERSECTION.
UH, TWO MONTHS AGO I PICKED UP 68 MILLER HIGH LIFE, 32 OUNCE CANS IN ADDITION TO DOZENS OF OTHER CANS, BOTTLES TRASH.
THEY'RE ROUGHLY EVERY FOUR TO SIX MONTHS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE AREA WHERE NEAR THE WATER TOWER, YOU'LL SEE DOZENS OF OTHER MILLER HIGH LIFE POUNDER CANS, TRASH THAT.
FRANKLY, IT'S NOT YOU GUYS DISCARDING THE TRASH, BUT IF YOU COULD JUST SPEAK TO THE PROPERTY ABOUT HAVING THEIR LAND CREWS, MAINTENANCE STAFF, WHAT HAVE YOU.
'CAUSE IT'S, I MEAN, I SPOKE TO THE POLICE.
THEY, THEY SAID THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
YEAH, WE CAN ABSOLUTELY PASS THAT ON.
[02:10:01]
SUSAN DENBY, 1 3 5 BENNINGTON ROAD.UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING THIS AND ALLOWING US TO SPEAK AND, AND THANKS FOR ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS TO EVERYONE HERE IN THE PANEL.
UH, UH, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO UNDERSTAND, AS A RESIDENT WHO LIVES ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE WHITE EDGE, WHERE NOTHING SHOWS ALONG WITH OVER A HUNDRED OTHER HOUSES, WHICH IS ROUGHLY 200 PLUS PEOPLE WHO I FEEL HAVEN'T BEEN REALLY REPRESENTED HERE.
I KEEP HEARING THAT YOU SAY WE'RE LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE AND, AND LISTENING TO WHAT YOU, YOU'RE ASKING FOR, AND YOU KEEP REFERRING TO OLD STATE ROAD UP ON THAT RIGHT HAND SIDE WHERE YOU HAVE THE OPEN SPACE.
WHAT I AM GOING TO SEE LOOKING OUT IS 50 FOOT HIGH TOWNHOUSES DOUBLE STACKED ON A HILL THAT IS ALREADY A, NOT AS TECHNICALLY A STEEP SLOPE BECAUSE IT HAS A LONG SLOPE, BUT ON THE TOP END, RIGHT WHERE OLD STATE IS AND THAT SECOND AVENUE AND UP THERE, I'M GONNA SEE PROBABLY 75 FOOT TALL HOMES GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE RIVER.
AND I KNOW FROM THE RIGHT TO KNOW PEOPLE THINK THAT MEANS ABOUT RENTING.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RENTING.
SHE VIEW SHED, IT HAS TO DO WITH THE VISTAS THAT YOU SAY ARE IN THE INTENT OF THIS LEGISLATIVE INTENT.
HOW DOES YOUR DEVELOPMENT MEET THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT OF THIS ORDINANCE AMENDMENT? YOU TELL ME.
I CAN START WITH THE, UH, A PLEASE GO THROUGH IT.
I WANT TO HEAR HOW YOUR DEVELOPMENT OF 600 HOUSES THAT ARE 50 FEET TALL, AND I GET TO SEE ALL OF THAT IN MY VIEW SHED SO THAT I GET A NICE VISTA.
YOU TELL ME HOW THAT WORKS FOR ME, BECAUSE I THINK WHAT, AND, AND THIS CONVERSATION HAS COME AROUND SEVERAL TIMES, IS I UNDERSTAND THE ALTERNATIVE THAT EVERYBODY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS NOTHING HAPPENS.
SIR, I'M ASKING YOU TO TELL ME HOW YOUR 600 PLUS 2 880 8600, OKAY, WELL THEN I WANT IT WRITTEN IN HERE BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE, WE'RE MISTAKING HERE IS JUST LIKE OTHER ORDINANCES WHERE WHAT'S WRITTEN DOWN DOESN'T GET BUILT.
WE, I'VE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FOR A JUST A YEAR, AND I CAN TELL YOU WHEN I READ THE ORDINANCES THAT WE HAVE, HOW MANY LOOPHOLES, HOW HOW MANY THINGS ARE NOT, UH, SPECIFIC.
AND THEN WE ARE, OH, THAT'S NOT THAT IT CAN BE THIS AND MISCONSTRUED, BUT YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY, MY QUESTION.
MY QUESTION REALLY HAS TO DO WITH THE 250 PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THIS IN THE WHITE SPACE WHERE YOU DON'T SHOW, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT A, A CITY AND THAT SAYS, NOT MEET THIS.
YOU WANNA PROTECT THE EXISTING VISTAS INTO A RURAL CHARACTER OF THE LARGE TRACT OF UNDEVELOPED LAND IN THE, IN THE TOWNSHIP.
ALSO, IT SAYS THAT IT'S MEANT TO BE, UH, PROVIDE FOR SUCH DEVELOPMENT IN AREAS CONSISTENT WITH THE GOALS OF THE TOWNSHIP'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHICH WOULD BE COMPATIBLE WITH AND PROTECT THE EXISTING COMMUNITY CHARACTER.
HOW, HOW DOES THAT DO THAT? WHEN I LIVE IN A DEVELOPMENT OF 33 HOMES, JUST ON THE WHITE EDGE OF THAT LEFT SIDE, AND THE, THE COMMUNITY BEHIND ME HAS, UH, WELL, HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE RAY 63 63 AND UP THERE ON OLD STATE ROAD, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS IT, A DOZEN HOUSES OR, YOU KNOW, MAYBE 20.
AND THEN DOWN THERE, OVER ON THE OTHER SIDE OF A PARK HOUSE DOWN TO THE BOTTOM, THERE'S A DEVELOPMENT THAT HAS ABOUT 80, I HANDED OUT FLYERS THERE, AND I CAN SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S ROUGHLY 80 HOUSES.
HOW, HOW DOES THIS, UM, MEET THAT, THAT, UH, INTENTION, THE LEGISLATIVE INTENTION? I'M NOT HEARING ANY ANSWERS.
I'M GIVING YOU OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.
IT REDUCES THE WELL, WE, YOU KNOW, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HEAR IT.
CAN I ANSWER? YEAH, YEAH, PLEASE.
UM, IT REDUCES THE INTENSITY OF THE USE BY 50%.
AND WHILE I UNDERSTAND THAT MAY NOT MAKE PEOPLE HAPPY, AND THAT MAY NOT BE ENOUGH FOR, FOR MANY PEOPLE IN THE ROOM.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS I HEARD AT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS THAT I FUNDAMENTALLY DISAGREE WITH IS WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SIX HUNDRED AND TWELVE OH THREE? AND
[02:15:01]
I, I THINK FIRST OF ALL, THAT'S COMPLETELY IGNORING THE FACTUAL BASIS OF THE DIFFERENCE IS 50% OF THE UNITS THAT COULD OTHERWISE BE BUILT.AND I IF, IF THAT'S THE ARGUMENT THAT PEOPLE ARE GONNA MAKE OF, WELL, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? YOU CAN APPLY THAT ALL THE WAY DOWN TO, WELL, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 636 HOMES? RIGHT? WE HAVE TO WORK WITH THE FACTS AT HAND.
THE FACTS AT HAND ARE THE ZONING PERMITS THE PROPERTY TO BE DEVELOPED FOR 1,203.
PLEASE DO NOT, PLEASE DO NOT SHOUT OUT.
THE QUESTION WAS PROPOSED BY MS. DEBY SO THAT SHE CAN GET HER ANSWER.
AND, AND WHAT I WILL TELL YOU, LET ME ASK, IT'S MISLEADING THOUGH.
LET HIM, LET HIM ANSWER THE QUESTION, PLEASE.
AND, AND MS. BRETT, WE CAN DISAGREE ON THAT.
WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS, IS MULTIPLE ATTORNEYS AND ED TALKED ABOUT IT, LIKEWISE, SUPERVISOR HEARING HAVE ALL ARRIVED AT THE SAME CONCLUSION.
LIKEWISE, HAVE ALL ARRIVED AT MS. CRAIG HAS THE TOWNSHIP, YOU STOP SHOUTING OUT, HAVE THE TOWNSHIP SOLICITORS ARRIVED AT THAT CONCLUSION? BECAUSE THAT IS NOT WHAT WE'VE BEEN ADVISED.
BUT PUTTING THAT ASIDE FOR A SECOND, I UNDERSTAND THAT THE 600, YOU ARE LOOKING AT IT SAYING IT, I DON'T FEEL LIKE IT, IT, IT WORKS FOR ME.
BUT AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT THE COMPROMISE IS.
WE, WE ARE COMING DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY FROM WHAT CAN OTHERWISE BE BUILT.
AND YOU MAY AT THE END OF THE DAY SAY, WELL, I STILL DON'T THINK THAT'S ENOUGH.
AND, AND WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE, BUT WHAT I CAN'T SIT HERE AND TELL YOU IS THAT THE ALTERNATIVE IS THAT NOTHING HAPPENS BECAUSE THAT IS NOT WHAT'S, I NEVER ASKED FOR NOTHING TO HAPPEN FOR YOUR ANSWER.
UH, WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT IS HOW IT MEETS THE CHARACTER OF THE SURROUNDING AREA AND THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT.
SO I WISH THAT, OR I HOPE THAT YOU WILL LOOK AT THIS ORDINANCE VERY CAREFULLY BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF PROMISES IN HERE ABOUT OPEN SPACE AND SAVING THE, UH, THE LAND.
WHAT, AND WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT, UM, CONDIT, THE CONDITIONAL USE OF 1,203.
AND YOU KNOW, I'M SORRY, WHEN WAS THAT APPROVED? I DON'T, I DIDN'T, I MUST HAVE MISSED THAT.
WELL, THE HEARING'S COMING UP, THAT, THAT HEARING'S COMING UP.
BUT WE'RE, WE'RE ALREADY POSTULATING THAT WE HAVE 1,203 AND WHERE IT'S ALL, WE'RE COMPARING IT TO THAT, THAT WE, WHAT WE SAID WAS THAT THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO, TO PROPOSE 1,203.
WELL, BUT WHEN DID IT BECOME 1,203? THEY'RE, THEY'RE SAYING THAT, BUT IT DOESN'T, IF YOU LOOK AT THE ACTUAL INSTITUTIONAL OVERLAY, 1,203 UNITS DOES NOT COMPUTE WELL, THAT'S, THAT'S YOUR OPINION.
THE BUILDER HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION.
THAT THAT'S THEIR, THAT'S THEIR JOB.
AND IS CONDITIONAL USE, UH, MEANING THAT WHEN YOU DO THAT HEARING, IF THAT IS THE WAY THERE'S CONDITIONS PUT ON SOMETHING NO.
TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT IS NOT THE CONDITIONAL NO, THAT'S NOT, YES.
THE CONDITIONAL USE, AS I EXPLAINED TO THE APRIL 18TH MEETING AND THE PREVIOUS MEETING BEFORE THAT, IS A PERMITTED USE.
THAT IF A DEVELOPER OR PROPERTY OWNER OR APPLICANT MEETS THE CONDITIONS CONTAINED IN THE ORDINANCE, THEY CAN CONSTRUCT THAT USE ON THE PROPERTY.
IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THERE ARE NECESSARILY CONDITIONS PLACED ON THE USE.
THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT.
THAT'S IMPORTANT PIECE THOUGH.
AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE SITTING HERE LOOKING AT 600 INSTEAD OF 1203.
I SAY, I WOULD SAY I'D PLANNING COMMISSION TO KNOW ALSO, BY THE WAY THIS WAS MENTIONED IS THAT THE TOWNSHIP SOLICITOR, JOE BRETON, FOUND THAT THIS WAS A PERMITTED USE.
THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION FOUND IT WAS A PREVENTED USE.
THE TOWNSHIP PLANNING CONSULTANT FOUND IT WAS A PREVENTED USE THE TOWNSHIP BECAUSE PEOPLE QUESTIONED, JOE BRESIN HIRED BOB BRANT, HE FOUND IT WAS A PERMITTED USE AS PART OF HIS INVESTIGATION.
I GAVE HIM LETTERS FROM MARK JONAS AND FROM MICHAEL YANOFF WHO WERE BOTH ZONING LAWYERS WHO WERE BOTH, WE HAD GOTTEN TO DOUBLE CHECK OURSELVES AND FOUND THOSE OF PERMIT USE.
THERE'S NO QUESTION OF PERMIT USE.
BUT MR. BRANT, UH, COMMENTARY ALSO HAD REASONS WHY IT MIGHT NOT BE APPROVED.
SO YES, HE DID SAY IT COULD BE, BUT THERE ARE OTHER POINTS.
HE MADE VERY MANY POINTS ABOUT HOW IT MIGHT NOT, SO I THINK YOU, I NEED TO READ THAT AGAIN.
THERE'S THE ONE SIDED APPROACH TO THIS AND 600 UNITS LOOKING OUT FROM THE CHARACTER OF THE REST OF THIS IS, IS JUST WAY TOO MANY.
AND THE HEIGHT IS WAY TOO HIGH.
WELL, AND THAT'S ALL GONNA BE IN THE PLAY.
BUT TO TAKE, WE'VE LOOKED AT ALL, WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL ANGLES OF THIS.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.
I'M TRYING TO OFFER, WE'RE LOOKING MR. BRAND'S COMMENTS.
WE'RE LOOKING AT EVERYBODY'S COMMENTS.
IF I MAY INTERRUPT, IF I MAY INTERRUPT, THIS PLANET COMMISSION HAS ALREADY MADE THEIR RECOMMENDATION ON THE CONDITIONAL USE.
THEY RECOMMENDED DENIAL IN JANUARY OF 2023.
THAT IS THE ONLY ACTION THEY'VE TAKEN ON THIS.
IT'S THE ONLY ACTION THEY'RE GOING TO BE TAKING ON THIS.
RIGHT NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ZONING AND THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
THANK YOU FOR ZEROING ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, DEAR.
UH, THE OTHER THING I WANNA TALK ABOUT IS THE, IS THE TRAFFIC.
TO PIGGYBACK ON, ON WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT THAT, I WAS IN THAT TRAFFIC
[02:20:01]
FROM 4 22 TODAY, AND I CAN TELL YOU IT TOOK ME 25 MINUTES TO GO SIX MILES.AND THAT WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY WHEN THERE WAS NO SCHOOL BUSES AND NOTHING.
AND I THOUGHT, WHAT IF WE HAD 600 UNITS HERE AT THAT TIME? WHAT WOULD THIS LOOK LIKE? PROBABLY WOULD'VE LOOKED LIKE THE REST OF MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
IF YOU'VE BEEN UP IN LANSDALE AND YOU DON'T GO ANYWHERE FOR A HALF HOUR OR ONE MILE, UH, I WOULD HOPE THAT WE DON'T, WE DON'T DESTROY THE CHARACTER OF THIS BEAUTIFUL AREA AND THE QUALITY OF LIFE BECAUSE WE HAVE A RIVER RIGHT NEXT TO US.
AND WHAT I SEE IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GONNA MOVE INTO THIS 600 UNIT, THEY'RE GONNA BENEFIT FROM THIS BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA GET THE VISTA.
THEY'RE GONNA HAVE THE HIGH UP THE ROOFTOP DECK, AND WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT WALL, A WALL OF, UH, TOWNHOUSES.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S REALLY SAD THAT YOU TAKE ALL THE TAXPAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN HERE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE AWAY OUR QUALITY OF LIFE.
YOU GOT, YOU MIGHT NOT WHAT I HAVE TO SAY, BILL TROUT AND BLACKROCK ROAD, MATT, I BELIEVE MATT, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CONDEMNATION AND YOU'VE ONLY EVER DONE ONE.
I BELIEVE WHAT I SAID WAS, I WAS ONLY EVER INVOLVED IN ONE PROJECT WHERE A, UH, WHERE THE MUNICIPALITY STEPPED IN ON BEHALF OF THE DEVELOPER AND CONDEMNED A PIECE OF PROPERTY.
MY FATHER WAS A VICTIM OF THAT.
RIGHT DOWN HERE ON BLACKROCK ROAD ON EASTON.
REMEMBER THAT? JEFF, WERE YOU INVOLVED WITH GSK OR EASTMAN KODAK? THAT WAS BEFORE YOUR TIME.
I, THAT OLD
MY PREDECESSOR WAS, I WAS INVOLVED WITH IT.
UH, THAT WAS ACTUALLY IN THE NINETIES, EARLY NINETIES.
UH, THE TOWNSHIP, WILL, TOWNSHIP AND PAN DOT WILL STEP IN AND TAKE THE PROPERTY.
IT WILL ABSOLUTELY NOT TAKE PR PENDO WILL NOT TAKE PROPERTY FOR A PRIVATE DEVELOPER.
I CAN, I I, THEY DID, THEY DID FOR EAST EASTMAN KODAK, MAYBE IN THE NINETIES, BUT NOT SINCE 2000 I, THAT I'VE EVER BEEN A PART OF THAT I'M EVEN AWARE OF.
SO WHERE PENDOT HAS STEPPED IN ON THE BEHALF OF A DEVELOPER AND CONDEMNED PROPERTY.
AND IT WAS FOR A TURN LANE, A CONVENIENCE TURN LANE.
THEY TOOK A, TOOK FRONTAGE, AND IT WAS, IT'S JUST, IT, MY FATHER NO WAY WAS, HE DIDN'T WANT TO SELL TO IT.
SO THAT, THAT'S JUST NO, THAT'S JUST SOME HISTORY.
NOW, HOW MANY OF YOU LIVED HERE SINCE IN THE EIGHTIES? EARLY EIGHTIES? ANYBODY
BACK IN THE EARLY EIGHTIES, 4 22 WAS BEING BUILT.
BLACKROCK ROAD WAS THE MAIN ROAD BETWEEN KING OF PRUSSIA AND POT STAND.
THE LAST SECTION WAS OPENED IN 1986.
NOW I WAS, I WAS, I'M, I'M A RETIRED DAIRY FARMER AND WE HAD A PIECE OF GROUND DOWN ON, UH, UPPER INDIAN HEAD ROAD THAT LAST YEAR.
I HAD ALL PROBABLY 80 LOWS OF CORN HOME.
AND 4 22 WAS NOT OPENED AT THAT TIME.
IT WAS WALL TO WALL CARS FROM ICE FROM 82 83 ALL THE WAY UP TO 86.
BLACKROCK ROAD WAS A PARKING LOT.
WHAT HAPPENED TODAY OVER ON 4 22? I'M SURE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH IT.
I FELT LIKE I WAS BACK IN THE EIGHTIES OUT HERE.
'CAUSE I JUST LIVE RUST WITH THE FIRE COMPANY.
UH, AND IT'S LIKE DEVELOPMENT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
I HAVE, YES, I HAVE SOME PROBLEMS WITH DEVELOPMENT, BUT NO, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
I DON'T, I DON'T FAULT YOU GUYS FOR WANTING TO DEVELOP IT AT ALL.
UM, BUT IT'S THE LOGISTICS OF GETTING IT THROUGH TRAFFIC IS A BIG THING.
NO, REALLY A BIG THING FOR ME, PLUS THE SCHOOLS.
WE GOT A GENTLEMAN COMING THIS WAY.
HE'S MARK DAVIS, 1 22 BENNINGTON ROAD.
UM, THE BIGGEST THING THAT SURPRISED ME TONIGHT, I'M NOT GONNA
[02:25:01]
BELABOR THE POINT TOO MUCH.'CAUSE YOU'VE POINTED OUT THAT WE'RE EARLY IN THE PROCESS, THERE'S GONNA BE MORE TRAFFIC STUDIES.
HEARING THAT OLD STATE ROAD HAS NO PLANNED IMPROVEMENTS IS SHOCKING.
THAT ROAD DOESN'T HANDLE THE CURRENT TRAFFIC, LET ALONE 600 NEW HOMES.
SO, BUT AGAIN, I KNOW THERE'S GONNA BE MORE STUDIES.
UM, I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS TO ASK.
THEY MIGHT BE MORE FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
UH, WE'VE HEARD A LOT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PROPOSAL AND THIS ZONING CHANGE OR ZONING ORDINANCE CHANGE TO PERMIT IT.
AM I READING IT CORRECTLY THOUGH THAT THIS ORDINANCE CHANGE AFFECTS THE ENTIRE TOWNSHIP? ANYTHING THAT'S ZONED THIS WAY, NOT JUST THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT? IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, WITHIN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT, LET LET GREG ANSWER THAT.
THE, UM, PROPOSED ORDINANCE IS FOR AN OVERLAY DISTRICT, UH, WHICH WOULD TECHNICALLY APPLY TO THE ENTIRE TOWNSHIP.
BUT IT'S IF THE, THE PARCELS OR COLLECTION OF PARCELS ASSEMBLED MEET THE REQUIREMENTS IN THE ORDINANCE FOR THAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT.
SO IT'S NOT AN INSTANTANEOUS THING WHERE THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT IS PERMITTED EVERYWHERE IN THE TOWNSHIP.
IT HAS TO MEET THE UNDERLYING CRITERIA WITH A MINIMUM ACREAGE, I BELIEVE OF 50 ACRES.
UM, SO THERE, THERE MAY BE OTHER SELECT AREAS OF THE TOWNSHIP WHERE THIS COULD POSSIBLY APPLY.
UM, BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT A GENERAL SWATH OF THE TOWNSHIP.
BUT HAS THERE BEEN ANY STUDY OR INVESTIGATION WHAT THOSE PARCELS MIGHT BE LIKE, WHAT THE POTENTIAL DOWN THE ROAD IMPACT OF THIS CHANGE COULD BE? IT IS BEING EVALUATED BY THE TOWN.
WE'VE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS ON THAT ISSUE.
UM, MY SECOND QUESTION IS MORE PROCEDURAL.
UM, I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE HOA FOR THE RIVERSIDE PROVIDE PROVIDENCE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE HEARD FROM MIKE AND SUSAN AND SEVERAL OF OUR NEIGHBORS.
UH, WHENEVER ONE OF THESE MEETINGS COMES UP, I GET ABOUT 10,000 TEXT MESSAGES.
'CAUSE EVERYBODY ASSUMES EVERYTHING IS HAPPENING TONIGHT.
LIKE EVERYTHING'S BEING VOTED ON, LIKE DEVELOPMENT'S GONNA START TOMORROW.
I KNOW THERE'S A DEDICATED PARKHOUSE SECTION.
IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN GET A LITTLE MORE DETAILS ON, LIKE I, I'VE READ THE AGENDA AND EVERYTHING, BUT IT WASN'T UNTIL I HEARD LIKE THE FIRST FIVE MINUTE OPENING WHERE WE SAID, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE COVERING.
LIKE, WE HA WE DIDN'T GET TO THE MEETING.
SO WE ACTUALLY COULD VERIFY THAT.
IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN GET THOSE DETAILS BETTER AHEAD OF TIME SO THAT I CAN BETTER HELP OTHER PEOPLE UNDERSTAND AND NOT FREAK OUT AS MUCH? YOU, YOU DO UNDERSTAND.
WE MADE A DECISION NOT TO MAKE ANY, 'CAUSE ED'S A VOLUNTEER TO BRING IN TO HAVE ANOTHER MEETING ON THE 15TH.
I MEAN, WE COULD VOTE ON IT TONIGHT IF WE WANTED TO.
I MEAN IT, THERE'S NO RESTRICTION THAT BECAME, BUT WE DECIDED TO LISTEN MORE AND WAIT FOR MORE DETAILS BEFORE WE DO PUT SOME KIND OF VOTE TOGETHER.
BUT, YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S, THERE'S NO WAY TO SAY THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA VOTE ON IT BECAUSE WE COULD.
WE INTERNALLY DECIDE WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT UNTIL WE HEAR ALL THE INFORMATION THAT ED CAN PROVIDE US.
BUT FOR, FOR YOUR BENEFIT, AND SINCE THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN YOUR COMMUNITY IN THE AUDIENCE OR COULD BE WATCHING, UM, THE PROCESS IS, IS SOMEWHAT FLUID AND SOMEWHAT RIGID AT THE SAME TIME IN THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT PROCESS THAT WE'RE HERE FOR TONIGHT, THERE ARE MEETINGS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
SO TONIGHT AND MAY 15TH, AND THEN THERE WILL BE A, AN ADVERTISED HEARING ON THE ORDINANCE BEFORE THIS, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ONLY AFTER THE ORDINANCE, IF IT'S PASSED IF AND, AND ENACTED AND IT TAKES EFFECT, THEN THE DEVELOPER WILL HAVE TO SUBMIT A FULL SET OF PLANS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT THAT WILL GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS AGAIN, WHERE IT IS REVIEWED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION, REVIEWED BY STAFF, REVIEWED BY, UH, THE BOARD, BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IN WHAT COULD BE ONE PROCESS LIKE THAT, OR TWO PROCESSES LIKE THAT.
AND, AND IT WILL GIVE THE PUBLIC PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY OVER TIME TO REVIEW AND COMMENT ON THAT, THAT DEVELOPMENT PLAN IF THIS GOES FORWARD UNDER THIS PROCESS, THERE'S ALSO THE PARALLEL CONDITIONAL USE PROCESS, WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY REVIEWED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN, IN EARLY 2023.
THAT IS NOW COMING TO A HEAD AGAIN WHERE THERE WILL BE A HEARING THAT'S ADVERTISED, UH, FOR LATER THIS MONTH.
UH, WHERE THERE'S A HEARING THAT COULD BE ONE NIGHT, THAT COULD BE MULTIPLE NIGHTS WHEN THAT HEARING, UH, CONCLUDES, ONLY AFTER THAT CONCLUDES.
AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS VOTES ON THE OUTCOME OF THAT HEARING.
THEN AGAIN, THE DEVELOPER WILL HAVE TO SUBMIT DEVELOPMENT PLANS THAT GO THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION PROCESS AND THE, AND THE SUPERVISOR PROCESS AND THE STAFF REVIEW PROCESS ONE OR TWO TIMES, DEPENDING, MOST LIKELY TWO DEPENDING ON THE, BASED ON THE SCALE OF THE APPLICATION.
[02:30:01]
SO IT IS, IT IS NOT A, UH, 1, 2, 3, 4 BULLET POINT PROCESS THAT WE CAN LAY OUT.THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING TO TAKE PLACE AT ON THESE DATES AT EACH STEP BECAUSE DEPENDING ON THE PATH THIS TAKES, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AT DIFFERENT TIMES.
SO WE'LL FOLLOW THE ADVERTISING AND NOTICE REQUIREMENTS THAT WERE REQUIRED TO AS A TOWNSHIP, INCLUDING PUBLIC ADVERTISEMENT, UH, AND POSTING ON THE AGENDA AND THOSE REQUIREMENTS, INCLUDING UPDATING THE PARKHOUSE WEBSITE TO GIVE YOU THE BEST INFORMATION THAT WE CAN AS TO WHAT THE TOWNSHIP IS GOING TO BE CONSIDERING AT ANY POINT TIME AND, AND, AND WHEN WE'RE GONNA VOTE OR NOT.
THE, YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN WE FEEL THAT WE'VE GOT ALL THE INFORMATION WE CAN.
AND ALSO I TRY TO, ON THE AGENDA UNDERNEATH EACH APPLICATION, PUT A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT ON THERE.
SO LIKE, YOU KNOW, IRIC DRIVE LINE THREE LOT SUBDIVISION WAITING FOR PLANS TO BE REVISED WHEN IT MOVES UP TO AN APPLICATION TO BE DISCUSSED.
I USUALLY SAY IF A RECOMMENDATION IS GIVEN, IT WILL BE ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR IT'LL BE ON THE AGENDA FOR THE BOARD, LIKELY ON THE BOARD AGENDA FOR THE NEXT, WHATEVER THE NEXT BOARD AGENDA DATE IS.
SO I TRY TO HAVE SOME CONTEXT ON THERE, BUT IT IS A FREE FLOWING PROCESS.
SOMETIMES WE MIGHT GET INTO A MEETING AND WE DECIDE THAT NIGHT.
SOMETIMES WE GET INTO A MEETING AND WE DON'T.
SO AS MUCH AS I CAN HERE, AND YOU CAN ALWAYS CALL ME AND ASK, I'M ALWAYS IN THE TOWNSHIP, I CAN ALWAYS ANSWER THE QUESTION FOR YOU.
BUT WE CAN'T WAIT TO HAVE MORE MEETINGS.
I I WANT TO ANY MORE TONIGHT OR WE WANT TO OKAY.
YOU READY? I, I'M GOING, I'M GOING TO, IF WE HAVE NO MORE, THAT'S FINE TOO, BUT NO MORE LATER THAN 10 O'CLOCK.
10 O'CLOCK AT THE LATE, YOU KNOW, WE COULD CUT OFF NOW IF WE WANT TO, BUT NO LATER THAN 10 O'CLOCK.
UH, AGAIN, THANK YOU, UM, FOR TAKING THE TIME TONIGHT.
UM, AT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING ON THE, I THINK IT WAS THE 22ND, 24TH MAYBE.
I HAD ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT PROPOSING A ZONING AMENDMENT.
DOES IT ONLY HAVE TO BE DONE BY A DEVELOPER? AND THE RESPONSE THAT I RECEIVED, I BELIEVE FROM CHAIRMAN CHAIRWOMAN KELSEY WAS, AND BY MR. BRESNAN, WAS ANYONE CAN PROPOSE A ZONING AMENDMENT.
SO AS I'M LOOKING AT THIS PARTICULAR ZONE, 'CAUSE THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE HERE ABOUT, IS THIS ZONING AMENDMENT.
THERE'S ARBITRARY NUMBERS IN HERE THAT WE COULD GO UP OR WE COULD GO DOWN AND SECTION 180 2 DASH SIX, THREE DASH 0.30 OF DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS, AREA AND BULK STANDARDS.
I WOULD JUST ASK US TO LOOK AT DENSITY PARKHOUSE FRIENDS HAS ONLY, AND OUR COMMUNITY HAS ONLY BEEN FOR THE LAST 20 MONTHS, TALKING ABOUT DENSITY.
WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO DEVELOPMENT.
WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO AGE RESTRICTED COMMUNITIES.
SO IF WE JUMP DOWN TO ITEM B, WHY, WHY ONLY 25%? OKAY.
WE KNOW WE HAVE AN AGING COMMUNITY IN OUR STATE.
I THINK I WAS QUOTED, AND I'M GONNA BE PRESENTING AT A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH FOLDER ADULT, UH, STATE CONFERENCE AT THE END OF THIS MONTH AROUND AGING AND RECOGNIZED THAT THE, THE CONCEPT OF THIS PROPERTY WAS TO SUPPORT INDIVIDUALS WHO NEEDED LONG-TERM CARE.
AND WHAT WE'VE TURNED THIS INTO AS A CITY OF YOUNG PEOPLE.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF THE ZONING AMENDMENT, CAN WE NEGOTIATE ON THIS, ON THE ACTUAL ZONING AMENDMENT NUMBERS? WHY FIVE UNITS PER GROSS ACRE? WHY DON'T WE, I MEAN, CAN WE WRITE THE RULES THAT SAY MAYBE 'CAUSE THIS WILL IMPACT THE TOWNSHIP GOING FORWARD.
SO WHY DON'T WE START TALKING ABOUT MAYBE THREE UNITS PER GROSS ACRE INSTEAD OF FIVE? WHY DON'T WE TALK ABOUT PERCENTAGES OF AGE RESTRICTED? I DON'T THINK WE'RE OPPOSED TO IT.
I THINK WHAT WE'RE OPPOSED TO IS THE DENSITY.
AND I RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS A FINANCIAL ISSUE.
AND THE BOTTOM LINE COMES DOWN TO WHEN THE DAY IS DONE AND THERE'S DEDICATED OPEN SPACE.
[02:35:02]
I THINK THAT ROYERSFORD HOLDINGS PURCHASED THE PROPERTY FOR ABOUT $43 MILLION ORIGINALLY FROM THE COUNTY.I KNOW THAT THE IDEA OF HAVING A CITY IN THIS AREA, PARTICULARLY GIVEN THE TRAFFIC, I JUST CAME FROM NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE, BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL CITY.
IT'S A YOUNG PERSON CITY, AND IT'S SMACK DAB IN THE MIDDLE OF BASICALLY FARMLANDS.
AND THEY BUILD UP AND THEY BUILD UP HIGH.
ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR IS DENSITY.
BE CONSIDERATE OF THE COMPARABLE HOUSING IN THE COMMUNITY.
AND, AND YOU LOOK DOWN ONE 13, YOU'RE NOT FINDING STACKED TOWN TOWNHOUSES.
YOU'RE NOT FINDING TOWN HOMES.
SO WE WOULD SUGGEST WE WOULD BE WILLING TO EVEN NEGOTIATE AROUND THE CONTEXT OF THE ZONING AMENDMENT MINUTE.
BECAUSE THE QUESTION HERE IS, IS THAT THE WAY IT STANDS, YOU CAN STILL BUILD 880 ON, AND I BELIEVE THAT MR. UH, MULLINS HAS INDICATED THAT, YOU KNOW, MUCH OF THIS WOULD BE DEDICATED TO OPEN SPACE.
BUT LET'S NEGOTIATE AROUND THIS ZONING IS PROPOSED ZONING AMENDMENT CHANGE.
BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS HERE TODAY IS GONNA HAPPEN IN ALL THOSE OTHER TRACKS OF LAND.
AND IF THERE'S 50 PLUS ACRES ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE TOWNSHIP, THEY'RE GONNA GET BUILT UP JUST LIKE THIS.
'CAUSE EMPTY HOMES IS A BIG BUILDER, WE GET THAT.
BUT MAKE IT SO THAT IT'S THE TOWNSHIP.
IT, IT'S THE ROOTED IN HISTORY, GROWING IN PROMISE, BUT THAT IT'S COMPARABLE WITH OUR TOWNSHIP.
IS THIS EVEN ON? HELLO? NOT ON.
AL VAGNOZZI, UH, 1 28 EIGHTH PERIOD DRIVE.
I HAVE A STATEMENT THAT I'LL PROBABLY READ NEXT WEEK OR TWO WEEKS FROM NOW.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THE DENSITY REAL QUICK.
UM, AGAIN, I'M, I'M AGAINST THE WHOLE PROJECT, BUT, UH, I'M A PRAGMATIST AS A SUPERVISOR.
I'VE SEEN WHERE THIS IS GOING.
THEY'RE GOING TO SUE THE TOWNSHIP IF 600 HOMES IS NOT APPROVED.
THEY'VE SPENT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON THIS PROJECT AND THEY DIDN'T DO IT WITHOUT THE FACTS.
BUT LEMME JUST BRIEFLY MENTION SOMETHING ABOUT DENSITY.
AS SOON AS I FIND IT, WE HAVE DENSITY IN THE TOWNSHIP.
IN FACT, WE HAVE A LOT OF DENSITY IN THE TOWNSHIP.
OH YEAH, THERE'S A FEW OF THEM.
YOU'RE DOING A ESPECIALLY GOOD JOB.
YOU'RE BEING REALLY GOOD WITH EVERYBODY.
APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S GETTING RESPECT.
PERMAN WOODS, R FOUR WHITE SPRINGS, R FOUR RIDGEWOOD COMMUNITY, THE MEADOWS, THORNHILL, PROVIDENCE FORGE, REBO.
ANYBODY KNOW WHERE REBO IS? GOT ANYWAY? THERE'S A LOT OF DENSITY.
THERE'S A, THERE'S A LOT OF DENSITY.
YOU SEE THE FACT THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S NO DENSITY.
THERE'S DENSITY EVERYWHERE IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
I, I LISTEN TO EVERYBODY HERE AGAIN.
I, I'M NOT FOR THIS UNDERSTAND THAT I'M NOT HERE TO PRO BEING A PROPONENT FOR THEM.
AND WHEN I SAT ON THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, I WAS PRAGMATIC AND WE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE COME UP, COMPLAIN ABOUT THE LEGAL STORE, THE SUPERMARKET COMPLAIN ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS.
AND WE WORKED THE TOWNSHIP WORKED BUFFER, UH, UH, AND WE WORKED WITH POSITIONING OF DEVELOPMENT HOMES.
THERE'S, THERE'S PEOPLE HERE THAT HAVE HOMES ADJACENT TO THIS.
THEY'RE GONNA WORK WITH THOSE PEOPLE.
AND, AND I CAN, I JUST REMEMBER THE LEGAL SUPERMARKET ON, UH, MAIN STREET, PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT IT.
WE HAD NEIGHBORHOOD MEETINGS AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, PEOPLE CAME UP AND KNOCKED ON US, CAME UP HERE AND SAID, THANK YOU.
OH, AND, AND ACTUALLY THE LAST SUPERVISOR'S MEETING, THE, UM, NIELSEN CAME IN AND, UH, THE TOWNSHIP CHANGED THE, UH, HOTEL TO, UM, APARTMENTS.
SO JUST TO GET THE FACTS RIGHT, THEY ADDED ABOUT ANOTHER A HUNDRED, 130 APARTMENTS
[02:40:01]
IN LIEU OF A HOTEL.SO THE, THE UNITS DIDN'T CHANGE, IT'S JUST THE, THE NUMBER OF, UM, APARTMENTS CAME UP AND, YOU KNOW, WHO WAS IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM? THE HOA PRESIDENT OF WHITE SPRINGS.
SO THAT ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT, THROUGH COMMUNITY MEETINGS, THROUGH INFORMATION SESSIONS LIKE THIS, EVERYBODY GOT A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WAS GONNA HAPPEN.
AND THINGS ARE GETTING BETTER HERE.
THESE MEETINGS SHOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE A YEAR AGO.
THE BOARD DID WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS RIGHT, BUT THERE WAS, UM, NOT ENOUGH INTERACTION WITH THESE GENTLEMEN, FOLKS HERE BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE ANSWERS.
YOU WEREN'T GETTING ANSWERS, YOU WERE GETTING HALF ANSWERS.
AND THAT WASN'T FAIR TO THE RESIDENTS.
AT LEAST OVER THE PAST TWO WEEKS, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF ANSWERS.
THE TRAFFIC ISSUES WILL BE COVERED, THEY'LL BE FIXED.
THE, THE DRAINAGE, IT'S GONNA, IT HAS TO BE BETTER BY LAW.
UM, SO THERE'S GONNA BE TRAILS, UH, I KNOW SOMEBODY MENTIONED TRAILS.
THEY'RE GONNA, THEY'RE GONNA PUT TRAILS.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED EXCEPT THAT RIGHT NOW THAT DRAWING ON THE BOARD IS JUST A STEP UP FROM SOMEBODY USING A PIECE OF CRAYON.
THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED A SKETCH PLAN.
WHEN THE TOWNSHIP, WHEN THIS FINE BOARD MAKES THE DECISION IN, IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS AND IT GOES TO THE SUPERVISOR AND THEY MAKE THEIR DECISION, IF THEY VOTE TO HAVE A TEXT AMENDMENT, THEN YOU CAN COME PROBABLY THREE OR FOUR, FIVE MEETINGS, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN TO GET EVERYTHING IN.
THEY'RE GONNA DO THAT AND IT'S GONNA BE A NICE PROJECT.
IT'S NOT WHAT WE WANT, BUT IT'S NOT A CITY LIKE I JUST HEARD.
IT'S NOT A CITY, IT'S NOT, THIS IS A, A DENSE DEVELOPMENT IN A PORT PART OF TOWNSHIP WHERE THERE ARE OTHER DENSE DEVELOPMENTS.
ALRIGHT, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.
OH, HOLD IT, HOLD IT GOT MORE, MORE.
HI, SUSAN DENBY, ONE THROUGH FIVE BENNINGTON ROAD.
UM, THERE WAS JUST A COUPLE FOLLOW UPS ON THE, UM, THE TRAFFIC STUDY AND, AND ALSO YOUR STUDIES.
YOU, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU DO IN FACT HAVE STUDIES IN THE ORDINANCE, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY, SO I JUST WANTED TO HAVE YOU HELP ME FIND THOSE.
UM, THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS DONE IN 2023, I THINK EARLY IN THE YEAR.
IS THAT RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THAT WAS FOR A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TYPE OF, UH, H HOUSING DEVELOPMENT OR IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, IS IT THAT HOW TRAFFIC STUDIES JUST COUNT NUMBERS AND IT DOESN'T MATTER IF NO, IT ABSOLUTELY DOES MATTER, BUT YES, THAT TRAFFIC STUDY TRAFFIC COUNTS WERE CONDUCTED IN JANUARY OF 2023 FOR PURPOSES OF PUTTING TOGETHER A TRAFFIC STUDY ASSOCIATED WITH THE ORIGINAL 1,203 UNIT PLAN.
AND SO FOR THAT 1,203 UNIT PLAN, THAT WAS FOR 62 AND UP, NOT FOR A GENERAL POPULATION AGE RESTRICTED.
SO DOES THAT MAKE AN IMPACT ON THIS STUDY? DOES THAT, UH, FOR THE RESULT OF THIS STUDY, DOES THAT HAVE PLAY INTO THE RESULT? IT DOES.
SO HOW CAN YOU EXTRAPOLATE FROM THAT TYPE OF STUDY TO A, A STUDY THAT IS FOR GENERAL POPULATION, ACTUALLY A YOUNGER POPULATION, MOSTLY ONLY 25%, 55 AND UP, WHICH ISN'T 62 BUT 55.
HOW DOES THAT EVEN EXTRAPOLATE? AND THE OTHER POINT I WANT TO MAKE IS THAT REMEMBER COVID WELL, WE WERE STILL IN COVID AND CORPORATIONS WHEN I WORKED AT, WE WERE WORKING REMOTELY.
MANY COMPANIES WERE NOT BACK IN FULL SWING AT THAT TIME.
AND STILL THEY'RE MAKING THEIR WAYS INTO, UH, BEING, YOU KNOW, PARTIAL REMOTE, PARTIAL HYBRID.
SO I DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN TAKE A STUDY FROM EARLY JANUARY OF 2023 AND SAY THAT IT'S GOOD FOR 20 25, 26, 27 BECAUSE OUR TRAFFIC PATTERNS WERE SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACTED BY COVID AND THEY WOULD ALSO BE SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACTED BY BEING 62 AND UP VERSUS, UH, ANY AGE POPULATION.
SO PLEASE, UH, TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION IF I CAN RESPOND.
UM, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AND WE DID A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STUDY FOR THE CURRENT PROPOSAL ON THE PLAN.
SO, OH, YOU DIDN'T, I'VE BEEN IN THE PROCESS OF WRAPPING UP A COMPLETELY BRAND NEW TRAFFIC STUDY THAT INCLUDES
[02:45:01]
THE DATA FROM JANUARY OF 2003RD OR 23, BUT ALSO IDENTIFIES THE 603 UNITS OR 600 UNITS, I'M SORRY, TOTAL THREE 600 UNITS CURRENTLY PROPOSED.BUT YOU'RE EXTRAPOLATING DATA.
SO THE DATA COLLECTED IN JANUARY OF 2023 IS IN FACT IT'S DATED.
IT'S DOESN'T MATTER WHAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT YOU'RE PROPOSING, THAT'S ACTUAL DATA.
THOSE ARE COUNTS OF ACTUAL VEHICLES ON THE ROADWAY DURING CERTAIN TIME PERIODS.
SO THAT DATA IS GOOD FOR WHATEVER WE COULD PROPOSE A MOVIE THEATER, WE COULD PROPOSE ANY SORT OF DEVELOPMENT ON THIS PROPERTY.
UM, BUT IT'S ONLY GOOD DURING COVID.
SO I JUST DON'T SEE HOW THAT EQUATES TO NOW I WOULD TELL YOU THAT AGAIN, I THINK I MENTIONED THIS BEFORE.
I'VE BEEN DOING THIS 29 YEARS.
I WILL TELL YOU THAT THE PROCESS THAT WE FOLLOWED AND THE DATA THAT WAS COLLECTED IS THE PROCESS.
UM, THERE WAS NO INFORMATION THAT I AM AWARE OF WHERE JANUARY, 2023 WAS AFFECTED BY COVID.
NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT OUR PEOPLE THAT ARE WORKING FROM HOME, WORKING REMOTELY, UH, SOME EMPLOYERS ARE REQUIRING CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS TO COME BACK.
BUT CONVERSELY, THERE ARE A LOT OF EMPLOYERS THAT AREN'T.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE CURRENTLY WORKING FROM, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT RETIRED.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T GO BACK TO WORK.
SO DEALING WITH TRAFFIC DATA EVERY DAY THAT I DO, UM, THERE'S ACTUALLY BEEN A PLATEAU AND A SLIGHT DECLINE IN TRAFFIC LINES IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS.
BUT I WOULD NOT SAY THAT TRAFFIC LINES IN 2023 WERE NEGATIVELY AFFECTED BY COVID.
AND REMEMBER, OUR GUY HAS NOT GOTTEN INVOLVED.
ANTHONY HASN'T BEEN INVOLVED YET EITHER.
SO I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE GOTTA WE GOTTA GIVE HIM A CHANCE TO DO HIS JOB.
I REALIZE THAT YOU, I THINK EVERYBODY SEEMS TO BE OPERATING OFF THE OLDER NUMBER VERSION, BUT IT'S UNDER SECTION 300 DASH THREE 10 ADDITIONAL PREREQUISITES.
D ALL PROPOSALS SHALL BE ACCOMPANIED BY A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY PREPARED IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 300 DASH 4 38 E OF THIS CHAPTER.
OH, SO I HAVE, IS THIS THE OLD ONE? IT'S THE SAME, IT'S DIFFERENT NUMBERS, BUT IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME LANGUAGE.
I HAD, BECAUSE YES, SO THIS REPLACED, OR AS YOU REMEMBER AT THE LAST MEETING, WE REIFIED AS WE EXPLAINED AT THE MEETING, EVERYTHING IN THAT, IN THE ZONING MOVED FROM 180 2 TO 300.
SO WHEN I, WHEN WE GOT THIS ORDINANCE FROM THEM, THEY HAD PUT IT UNDER 180 2 ON MONDAY.
I WENT THROUGH AND PUT IT IN SECTION 300 WITH THE SAME, IN THE SAME SECTIONS.
BUT WHERE IT BELONGED IN SECTION 300, IT IS ON THE, IT IS ON THE WEBSITE.
IT'S UNDER, IT IS WITH THE, IT IS WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION PACKET.
AND UM, GOD, WHAT ELSE I WAS GONNA SAY? BUT YES, IT, IT IS THE SAME THING.
YEAH, NO, NO, BUT BUT KEEP IN MIND, KEEP IN MIND, YOU KNOW, GREAT.
MR. HAMMOND IS AND IS PROFESSIONAL.
HE'S A GREAT GUY AND HE DOES A GREAT JOB.
ANTHONY'S GONNA GET INVOLVED, THEY'RE GONNA DEBATE AND QUESTION, THEY'RE GONNA LOOK AT DIFFERENT DATA AND HE'S GONNA GIVE HIS INPUT TOO.
I MRS. DEBY, CAN YOU LOOK AT SECTION 180 2 MM-HMM.
DOES NOT, THIS IS AN OLDER COPY.
AGAIN, AGAIN, WHEN THE ORIGINAL PACKET WENT OUT, THERE WAS THE DRAFT OF THE ORDINANCE, THE NEWER DRAFT OF THE ORDINANCE.
AND WHEN WE LISTENED TO YOUR COMMENTS FROM THE 18TH ABOUT NOT HAVING A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY, WE REALIZED THAT WE HAD MISSED THAT IT IS IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE.
THAT'S WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION PACKET.
NOW, JEFF, IF I CAN, IF ANY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE THAT, I BELIEVE AT THE END OF SECTION C, THE LANGUAGE REQUIRING A TRAFFIC IMPACT STATEMENT IS INCLUDED IN THAT PARAGRAPH FOR CLARITY FOR THE PUBLIC AND ALSO SO IT'S CLEAR TO ANY APPLICANT THAT A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY, WHICH USES THE SAME LANGUAGE AS WHAT IS NOW 300 DASH 4 38 DASH E IS INCLUDED.
IT WAS SEPARATED OUT AS NEW SECTION D.
SO IT WAS VERY CLEAR, OKAY, SO WHAT, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A STATEMENT AND A STUDY? BECAUSE I DO SEE IS NOT THE CHOICE OF WORDS IN THE INITIAL DRAFT.
AND WE REVISED THAT SO IT WAS CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE ZONING WORK.
SO A STATEMENT REALLY IS A STUDY.
IT STILL HAS TO BE DONE WITHIN THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ZONING ORGANIZATION GENERAL.
AND THANK YOU FOR GOING FURTHER ON THIS STUDY.
[02:50:01]
THANKS.IT'S, UH, DOES THIS EVEN WORK? UH, BRAD BUR WHAT'S AGAIN, YOU SAY YOUR NAME REALLY FAST.
I KNOW YOU SAID SUPER FAST LAST TIME AND I GOT NONE.
UM, ACTUALLY JUST ONE QUESTION.
UM, AND AGAIN, I'M GONNA DO A HISTORY REAL QUICK.
SO AGAIN, WE SAID THE ORIGINAL HORSE FARM WILLIAMSBURG S THING WAS SHOT DOWN.
IT WAS SHOT DOWN ORIGINALLY BECAUSE THAT WASN'T EVEN CLOSE TO THE ZONING FOR WHAT IT WAS ZONED FOR.
RIGHT? SO THEN IT CAME BACK WITH, OKAY, IT'S THE INSTITUTIONAL OVERLAY AND WE GOT THE 1200 UNIT PLAN FROM THE BUILDER OR THE OWNER, SORRY, THE OWNER.
UM, BUT I'LL BE HONEST, THAT WAS OBJECTIONAL TO THE COMMUNITY AND PERFECTLY HONEST.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT THE OWNER WANTS EITHER.
I MEAN, THEY ALWAYS WANTED TO DEVELOP THIS FOR RESIDENTIAL TO SOME DEGREE.
UM, MY QUESTION IS RIGHT NOW THERE'S LIKE, YOU GUYS CAN'T DO ANYTHING UNTIL THIS BUSINESS IS IS APPROVED, RIGHT? AND IT'S CLEAR THE COMMUNITY DOESN'T LIKE IT.
I MEAN, BECAUSE OF THE DENSITY, BECAUSE OF THE, I DON'T LIKE THE HEIGHTS PERSONALLY, LIKE FROM WHERE I'M AT.
UM, MY QUESTION IS, IS THIS A DONE DEAL? LIKE IS THIS YOUR FINAL PROPOSAL? IS THIS ORDINANCE THE FINAL PROPOSAL? LIKE IS THERE AN OPTION TO TALK ABOUT THIS FURTHER? GOOD LUCK GETTING AN ANSWER OUT OF THEM ON THAT ONE.
PARDON ME? GOOD LUCK GETTING AN ANSWER FOR THE NO, NO.
MY QUESTION IS, I WILL ANSWER THE BEST, I THINK THE BEST ANSWER WE CAN PROVIDE FROM THE TOWNSHIP END, AND THEN I'LL ALLOW MR. MULLEN OR ANY OF, OF, OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT TO ANSWER THAT THE ORDINANCE THAT WE ARE CONSIDERING AS REVISED WITH THE THE 300 SERIES NUMBERS, UH, THIS IS THE VERSION THAT UNLESS THE THE, AT THIS POINT THAT WILL BE ADVERTISED AND CONSIDERED AT A HEARING, IF THERE ARE REVISIONS TO THIS ORDINANCE, THE TOWNSHIP WILL HAVE TO RE ADVERTISE.
SO AT, AT THIS POINT, WE'RE OPERATING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT THIS IS THE VERSION THAT WILL BE CONSIDERED, THAT CAN STILL CHANGE.
HOWEVER, THIS IS WHAT, THIS IS WHAT WILL BE CONSIDERED YOU COULD CHANGE.
AS FOR AS FOR WHETHER THERE'S CONSIDERATION ON THE APPLICANT'S END OF ANY OTHER CHANGES, THEY'LL HAVE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
THE ANSWER IS THIS IS OUR PROPOSAL.
AND MY QUESTION IS THIS, THIS IS VERY, THIS PROPOSAL, WHICH I UNDERSTAND IS A PROPOSAL, IS IT A FINAL PROPOSAL? 'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S GEARED A HUNDRED PERCENT IN, IN YOUR INTEREST.
SO I MEAN, RIGHT NOW THE TOWNSHIP OWNS THE ORDINANCES, RIGHT? YOU GUYS GET TO DECIDE WHAT IS AN APPROVED ORDINANCE ZONING FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
SO MY QUESTION IS LIKE I, I SEE THIS AS LIKE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIKE, YOU KNOW, I FORGET, YOU KNOW, GIVE HIM EVERYTHING AMONG THE FIRST SHOT.
UM, SO MY QUESTION IS LIKE YOU GUYS ARE SAYING, YOU, YOU WANNA DO WHAT YOU'RE HEARING FROM US.
OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE WANT NOTHING.
THERE'S GONNA BE SOMETHING IN BETWEEN.
IS THERE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OWNER'S PROFIT TARGETS ARE, BUT IS THERE A WAY TO COME DOWN TO, AGAIN, LA TORI SAID, I'M BUILDING ON WHAT SHE SAID, LOWER DENSITY, LOWER HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS THAT AREN'T GONNA BE AS DIFFERENT.
'CAUSE HONESTLY, I LOOK AT THIS, THIS DROP DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THE SURROUNDING AREA DOES NOT FIT IN.
THIS FITS IN IN LIKE A, LIKE A, UH, LIKE DOWNTOWN PHOENIXVILLE.
THIS FITS IN LIKE A COMMERCIAL AREA LIKE WEGNER, LIKE PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
THIS DOESN'T FIT IN THE MIDDLE OF HONESTLY OPEN, YOU KNOW, LIKE, YOU KNOW, OPEN LAND ABUTTING THE RIVER WITH BIG HOMES AROUND IT.
SO, I MEAN, TO ME, THIS IS STILL NOT A GOOD MATCH.
YOU GUYS AREN'T COMPLETELY HEARING WHAT WE WANT.
I GET YOU'RE NOT GONNA GO AS FAR AS WE WANT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WHAT I'M ASKING IS DO WE KEEP SHOOTING ORDINANCES UNTIL WE GO UNAPPROVED? OR LIKE, CAN THE PLANNING COMMITTEE SIT DOWN AND TALK TO YOU GUYS? I KNOW YOU GUYS TOOK A SHOT AT ONE POINT BEFORE THIS ONE TO COME TO SOME NEGOTIATION.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT GREG'S DOING.
HE'S SITTING, HE'S NOT WITH THESE FOLKS ALL THE TIME AND WE'RE TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING WE ALL CAN AGREE TO AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HAVING THESE HEARING.
OKAY, NOW, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD, I WOULD LOVE THAT TO SAY NO, WE'LL COME BACK WITH A DIFFERENT PROPOSAL.
BUT I HE PROBABLY AIN'T GONNA DO THAT RIGHT HERE AT THIS MEETING.
NO, BUT, BUT I'M SAYING IF WE KEEP PLAYING CHICKEN SOMEDAY WE'RE GONNA WIN.
NO, BUT YEAH, THERE'S NOT, YOU WANT WIN-WIN, WHICH HARDLY EVER HAPPENS, BUT YOU DON'T WANT SOMEBODY TO TOTALLY LOSE.
SO IS THERE A WAY TO COME TO SOMETHING AGAIN, LESS DENSITY, NOT THE HEIGHT, NOT NOT 50 FEET OR YOU KNOW, LIKE THREE STORIES, FOUR STORIES, WHATEVER.
CAN WE GET THE HISTORY AND THEN I, I CAN SPEAK FIRST AND YOU CAN SPEAK FROM THE DEVELOPER, NOT FROM THE ACTUAL BUILDER'S POINT OF VIEW, BUT FROM THE DEVELOPER'S POINT OF VIEW.
THE PLAN THAT WAS PRESENTED A COUPLE YEARS AGO THAT GOT SHOT DOWN AFTER THAT WAS DONE AND THE MANAGEMENT CHANGED IN RO FOR HOLDINGS, THEY SAID, COME UP WITH A PLAN THAT IS IN COMPLETE ACCORDANCE WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
THEY WERE ALL APARTMENTS, THEY WERE ALL FIVE STORY APARTMENTS.
[02:55:01]
WHO IS NOW RUNNING FOR US FOR HOLDING, SAID, NO, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.LET'S COME UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE THAT HAS OTHER UNITS IN IT.
THEN WE HEARD FROM THE TOWNSHIP AND SAYING, UM, WELL THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE IN VALUE OF GROUND THAT IS AGE RESTRICTED AND NOT AGE RESTRICTED.
AND WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO ACCEPT 729 UNITS? AND WE SAID YES.
AND WE DEALT FOR A YEAR AND A HALF GOING BACK AND FORTH.
AND FINALLY THE SUPERVISORS VOTED THAT DOWN.
THEN WE HEARD FROM THE TOWNSHIP AGAIN SAYING, WILL YOU COME DOWN TO 600 UNITS? UH, OR TO A LOWER NUMBER.
WE CAME UP WITH SIX 14, IT WAS SUGGESTED 600 AND THAT, THAT'S THE END OF THE LINE.
UM, THERE'S JUST IS NO MORE ROOM.
I, I WOULD ECHO WHAT ED SAID IS I, I KNOW FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE YOU'RE SAYING, HEY, THIS IS THE FIRST SHOT, BUT THIS ISN'T THE FIRST PROPOSAL.
I'M SAYING THIS IS THE FINAL SHOT.
YES, BECAUSE I THINK WE'VE HEARD IT AND WHETHER YOU AGREE THAT HEY, IT'S MEANINGFUL OR NOT.
I THINK WHAT WE'VE SHOWN IS WE HAVE ATTEMPTED TO, TO HEAR THE CONCERNS, EVEN IF THE, THE OUTCOME PEOPLE AREN'T HAPPY WITH THAT.
THE FACT OF GOING FROM 1203 TO 7 27 TO SIX 14 TO 600, WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ONE OR THE OTHER.
BUT I HOPE AT LEAST YOU RECOGNIZE THAT, THAT THAT PROCESS HAS BEEN ATTEMPTING TO HEAR EVEN IF IT DOESN'T GET TO WHERE YOU OR A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO BE.
IT'S JUST SAD THAT, YOU KNOW, THE OWNER, NOT YOU GUYS, IS BASICALLY GONNA EXPLOIT A WHOLE COMMITTEE, WHOLE COMMUNITY FOR HIS PERSONAL PROFIT.
SO MY QUESTION'S REALLY PROCEEDED.
THIS WILL BE THE LAST ONE BY THE WAY.
THIS IS, WE'RE GONNA CUT IT OFF HERE.
UM, MY, MY QUESTION'S PROCEDURAL, AND IT'S KIND OF IN THE LINE OF CONVERSATION THAT'S BEEN GROWING HERE, BUT I WANNA BE REALLY SPECIFIC IN MY QUESTION AND HOPEFULLY YOU CAN GIVE ME A SPECIFIC ANSWER.
THERE'S WORDS ON A PIECE OF PAPER RIGHT NOW THAT YOU'RE CONSIDERING.
THERE'S OTHER IDEAS HERE THAT ARE IDEAS.
AND THEY MAY BE ON OUR PIECE OF PAPER, BUT THEY'RE NOT ON OUR COLLECTIVE PIECE OF PAPER, THE ORDINANCE THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED.
HOW DO WE DO THAT? HOW DO WE GET ONE SENTENCE IN THERE THAT SAYS THIS ZONING REQUIRES A PERIMETER TRAIL, A 12 FEET WIDE WITH ACCESS TO THE INSIDE WITH PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS AS AN EXAMPLE.
HOW DO WE MOVE FROM THIS STATIC POSITION OF US LOOKING AT THIS DOCUMENT TO HAVING IDEAS THAT COME INTO CONSIDERATION? AND I APPRECIATE THE PROCEDURE OF THE ADVERTISEMENT AND EVERYTHING THAT CAN BRING THESE IDEAS ONTO THIS PIECE OF PAPER.
I THINK WHAT YOU'RE DISCUSSING ARE IDEAS THAT MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE FOR THIS PIECE OF PAPER.
AND I DON'T MEAN THEY'RE NOT GOOD IDEAS OR THEY'RE NOT WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION, BUT THE, THE IDEAS YOU'RE DISCUSSING ARE VERY SITE SPECIFIC.
AND THIS IS THE ZONING ORDINANCE LOOKS A LITTLE LARGER THAN THAT.
HOWEVER, THOSE TYPE OF IDEAS ABOUT TRAIL REQUIREMENTS ACCESS, PUBLIC ACCESS REQUIREMENTS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, PARKING TO UTILIZE THE OPEN SPACE THE LAST TIME YOU WERE UP, THOSE ARE SUGGESTIONS THAT CAN CERTAINLY BE BROUGHT UP IF THIS ADVANCES INTO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AND COME TO A PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING LIKE THIS OR THE INITIAL MEETING OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WHERE THEY CONSIDER THAT PLAN AND SAY, THESE ARE THINGS THE PUBLIC WANTS TO SEE IN THAT DEVELOPMENT.
AND THE TOWNSHIP WORKS WITH THE DEVELOPER IN MAKING SURE THOSE THINGS ARE INCORPORATED INTO THE PLAN.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANNA AVOID.
I'VE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD SO MANY TIMES, I'VE SEEN ENGINEERS BEND OVER BACKWARDS GIVING THINGS TO DEVELOPMENTS.
I'VE SEEN RETENTION BASINS GROW EXPONENTIALLY INTO AREAS THAT THEY WERE NOT WANT ANY OF THE RENDERINGS.
I WANT TO AVOID WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, WHICH IS A VERY GOOD PROCESS, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVE A CHANCE TO LOCK SOMETHING IN.
I DON'T THINK TRAILS IS OUT OF BOUNDS OF ZONING.
BY THE WAY, I MAY BE TOTALLY IGNORANT OF THAT AND I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE IT, BUT I THINK THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT WE CAN PUT ON A PIECE OF PAPER THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S ON THIS PIECE OF PAPER AND HAVE THEM BE CONSIDERED.
NO, I, I WANT IT ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
I DON'T WANT ANY CONVERSATION RECORDED, TRANSCRIBED, OR IDENTIFIED IN ANY OTHER WAY.
I WANT TO TAKE THIS ORDINANCE HERE AND I WANT TO ADD CLAUSE FOUR, WHERE THERE'S ONLY THREE CLAUSES IN A PARTICULAR SECTION.
[03:00:01]
THERE IS NO PROCESS FOR A COLLECTIVE MARKUP OF A DOCUMENT.THE PROCESS IS THAT YOU COME TO THESE PUBLIC MEETINGS, OFFER YOUR PUBLIC COMMENT, THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS CONSIDER THOSE COMMENTS.
AND IF THEY, IF, IF THEY FIND MERIT IN THEM, THEY INCLUDE THEM IN THE DOCUMENT AND THEY INCLUDE THEM IN THE DOCUMENT.
SO A DOCUMENT CAN BE PRODUCED.
IT WOULD SAY, WE WANT THIS IN THAT.
WELL, HE JUST SHOWED THAT THAT IS WHAT THE DOCUMENT IS.
HE DID THAT WITH THE, UH, TRAFFIC STUDY.
LIKE GREG SAID, IT WASN'T IN THERE CLEAR ENOUGH.
SO THEY, THEY CHANGED THE DOCUMENT TO SHOW EXACTLY WHAT THE PEOPLE WANTED TO SEE, WHICH WAS YOU CAN DO IT SPECIFIC THING.
SO YOU'RE SAYING IT'S KIND OF AN ON THE FLY EDIT BASED ON, ON THE FLY.
THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S TALKS, THERE'S DISCUSSIONS, THERE'S THE LEGAL ISSUES WE HAVE TO SOLVE.
SO THERE'S, IT'S NOT ON THE FLY.
I'M JUST SAYING THE OFFERING IS THIS MEETING AND THE OFFERING IS ON PAPER.
IS THAT CORRECT AS CORRESPONDENCE? IT'S NOT RIGHT NOW.
AS AS OUR CO AS AS THE PEOPLE'S CORRESPONDENCE TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE PLANNING DIRECTOR.
IS THAT THE PROTOCOL? YOU, YOU CAN CERTAINLY SUBMIT THINGS TO MR. GRACE FOR, FOR REVIEW BY THE TOWNSHIP.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE'RE GOING TO PUT IT ON THE PAPER AT THAT POINT.
I MEAN, WE HAVE TO DISCUSS IT AND THEN DECIDE AND THEN WE HAVE TO TALK TO ED.
I MEAN, WE CAN'T JUST PUT IT IN THERE.
'CAUSE I WANT TO TAKE ALL THIS STUFF OUT OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS PAPER, SO YOU CAN LOOK, THAT'S, THAT'S DEFINITELY POSSIBLE.
YEAH, BECAUSE IT'S PROPOSED LANGUAGE ORDER.
WE WANNA SAY WE WILL CONSIDER IT.
GREG WILL TELL US IF IT'S LEGAL AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE.
ANYTHING ELSE? UH, THE 15TH, RIGHT? WHAT IS IT? 15TH.
OUR NEXT SLIDE IS, IS ONE ANNOUNCEMENT SINCE, UH, WE WILL ANNOUNCE THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MET AN EXECUTIVE SESSION PRIOR TO THIS EVENING'S MEETING TO DISCUSS QUESTIONS OF LAW AND RECEIVE LEGAL ADVICE.
DID EVERYBODY HEAR THAT? OKAY.
THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT? OKAY.
UM, SO, UM, JEFF, UM, THANK YOU FOR EVERYBODY AT THE END OF THIS DISCUSSION.
THANK YOU ED, AND THE VERY END.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
AGENDA, JEFF.FUTURE AGENDA FOR, FOR THE NEXT MONTH IS FOR THE 15TH.
NOTHING ELSE WILL BE ON THE AGENDA.
WE WILL HAVE SOME THINGS FOR JUNE, UM, IN YOUR TRAVELS OVER THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS, START THINKING ABOUT THE JULY 3RD MEETING AND LET ME KNOW BY THE FIRST MEETING IN JUNE IF WE WANT TO CANCEL THAT 'CAUSE.
THAT'S HOLIDAY BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S THE DAY BEFORE A HOLIDAY.
IF WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE PEOPLE AROUND, I'D LIKE TO KNOW.
YEAH, WE'LL PROBABLY WANT TO DO THAT, BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT COMING UP.
UH, BE CAN ALSO TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.