[00:00:03]
SO GO AHEAD.[CALL TO ORDER]
UH, APRIL 4TH, 2024 MEETING OF ADMISSIBLE AUTHORITY WILL COME TO ORDER INTRODUCTIONS.WE CAN START WITH DEBBIE, THE OTHER OF THE TABLE.
HI, I AM DEBBIE CORNELSON, PUBLIC WORKS ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT, TED DEPERMAN, TOWNSHIP MANAGER, BROAD UP PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR GEORGE FIELD, SUPER DEPARTMENT FOREMAN, MICHAEL COY, GILMAN ASSOCIATES PUBLIC WORK, UH, TOWNSHIP ENGINEER.
CAN YOU USE MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY BOARD MEMBER JAMIE PARKER, MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY BOARD MEMBER.
REMEMBER JOE BRESNAN? SOLICITOR? THANK YOU ALL.
UH, FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS IS TO APPROVE THE AGENDA, WHICH WAS SENT OUT.
WELL, WE CAN'T TAKE ANY ACTION.
THANK YOU, JOE
YOU CAN, YOU CAN DISCUSS THINGS INFORMALLY, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE ANY MOTIONS.
WE'LL HAVE TO DEFER THE MINUTES UNTIL THE NEXT, DEFER THAT.
I MEAN, WE DEFER THE AGENDA TO THE NEXT MEETING.
WHAT'S THAT? I THAT MEAN WE DEFER THE AGENDA TO THE NEXT MEETING? WELL, NOT WELL.
WAS THE, IS THE, I DON'T KNOW.
IS THE PRESENTATION, UH, INTENDED TO LEAD TO A VOTE? NO, JUST A PRESENTATION.
I THINK EVERYTHING ELSE WAS UPDATES, PRESENTATION, MAYBE A DISCUSSION, BUT NO ACTION.
[3. Presentation by Crystal Gilchrist on Perkiomen Stormwater Initiative]
WILL GO AHEAD WITH THE CRYSTAL BROOK GILCHRIST FROM THE PERONE WATER PIT STORM WATER INITIATIVE.I'M ACTUALLY AN EMPLOYEE OF REPRESENTATIVE JOE WEBSTER THESE DAYS.
UM, I HAVE BEEN EMPLOYED BY THE PERKY AND WATERSHED CONSERVANCY AND I HAVE BEEN EMPLOYED BY THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION.
UM, BUT CURRENTLY I'M WORKING FOR JOE WEBSTER SPECIFICALLY ON THIS PROJECT.
AND THIS PROJECT, WE'RE CALLING IT THE PERKIOMEN PROJECT, BUT ITS OFFICIAL NAME IS THE PER PERKIOMEN MAPPING AND FLOOD MITIGATION PLAN.
AND REPRESENTATIVE WEBSTER WAS ABLE TO GET A MILLION DOLLARS IN THE STATE BUDGET A COUPLE YEARS AGO AFTER IDA CAME THROUGH, UM, TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT FLOODING.
HE WASN'T SURE WHAT, HE WASN'T SURE HOW TO USE THIS MILLION DOLLARS, UH, BUT HE GOT A MILLION DOLLARS IN THE STATE BUDGET.
AND AT THE SAME TIME, AFTER IDA CAME THROUGH, I WAS, I RECENTLY RETIRED, UM, HAD TIME ON MY HANDS AND I WAS TALKING TO AN AWFUL LOT OF PEOPLE TRYING TO STIR UP INTEREST AND WAS CALLED AN ACT 1 67 PLAN, WHICH IS THE BIG STORM WATER PLAN FOR, UM, FOR WATERSHEDS.
THERE'D NEVER BEEN ONE FOR THE ENTIRE PERKY ON THE WATERSHED, SO I THOUGHT IT WAS TIME.
UM, AND THEN I MET JOE AND HE SAID HE HAD THIS MILLION DOLLARS AND HE NEEDED SOMEBODY WHO KNEW HOW TO MAKE IT GO
UM, SO THAT'S HOW HE AND I CAME TOGETHER.
AND OVER THE LAST YEAR, UH, THERE'S A CONTRACT NOW BETWEEN DEP AND MONTGOMERY COUNTY, UH, TO DO A LARGE WATERSHED STUDY.
I, I DON'T MEAN TO TURN MY BACK ON YOU GUYS, SORRY.
UM, TO DO A LARGE WATERSHED STUDY THAT INCLUDES A HYDROLOGY MODEL SO WE CAN REALLY LOOK AT WHERE THE WATER'S COMING FROM AND, AND ALL THOSE TYPES OF THINGS TO IDENTIFY THE AREAS AT THE MOST HIGHEST RISK FROM FLOODING.
UM, WE WANNA LOOK AT RAINFALL OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, MAYBE THE LAST 20 YEARS, TO SEE IF WE NEED TO ADJUST OUR MODELING TO ACCOUNT FOR LARGER STORMS. UH, WE ALSO ARE HOPING THAT FEMA WILL WANT TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE FLOODPLAIN MAPS WHEN WE'RE DONE, UM, BECAUSE WE THINK THEY'RE PROBABLY OFF BY A LOT IN SOME PLACES ALL, AND THERE'S ALSO MONEY IN THIS SCOPE OF WORK FOR, UM, A VERY LARGE PUBLIC OUTREACH EFFORT TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND BETTER HOW STORM WATER WORKS AND HOW IT DOESN'T WORK AND WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO DEAL WITH IT.
AND THERE'S GONNA BE MONEY FOR DEMONSTRATION PROJECTS AT THE END.
SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR DEMONSTRATION PROJECTS.
UM, THE STEERING COMMITTEE, WHICH IS MADE UP OF THE FOUR COUNTIES.
LEMME JUST POINT SOME THINGS OUT HERE REAL QUICK.
THIS IS A, WHERE'S MY BUTTON? WHY IS IT SHOW UP ANYWAY, THIS IS THE, THE POLE WATERSHED AND I CAN'T, MY POINTER'S NOT WORKING FOR SOME REASON.
BUT THE UPPER PART OF THE WATERSHED IS IN BERKS COUNTY AND LEHIGH COUNTY.
THE EASTERN PART OF THE WATERSHED IS, UM, IN BUCKS COUNTY.
AND YOU COULD SEE LAKE NAKA MIX IN THERE ON THE MAP.
THE EAST BRANCH GOES ALL THE WAY OUT.
DO YOU WANNA TRY THIS? OH, THAT IT WORKS OR NOT? IT MAY BE THE SCREEN.
OH YEAH, THAT'S, YEAH, IT WORKS EVERYWHERE EXCEPT ON THE SCREEN.
I DON'T KNOW WHY IT DIDN'T WORK ON THE SCREEN.
UM, BUT, AND YOU CAN SEE THE, UH, GREEN LANE RESERVOIR UP THERE RIGHT BELOW GREEN LANE RESERVOIR, THE AMI CREEK WATERSHED, WHICH IS PART OF UPPER BUCKS AND MILFORD TOWNSHIPS
[00:05:01]
IN THE, IN LEHIGH.THE AMI CREEK COMES IN, THE SWAMP CREEK COMES IN AND THE EAST BRANCH COMES IN ALL TO THE MAIN BRANCH OF THE PER KEMMA WITHIN FIVE MILES OF EACH OTHER, NORTH AND SOUTH OF SCH SHANKSVILLE.
SO IS IT ANY WONDER THAT FROM SCH SHANKSVILLE SOUTH EVERYTHING JUST GETS PLOWED UNDER? OKAY, SO WHAT WE'RE GONNA TRY TO FIGURE OUT IS HOW TO HOLD SOME OF THAT WATER BACK SO THAT EVERYTHING HAS TIME TO WORK THROUGH THE SYSTEM.
THE OTHER FLIP SIDE OF THAT IS BY HOLDING WATER BACK.
WE HOPE TO, UM, ENSURE THAT WE'RE GETTING GOOD GROUNDWATER INFILTRATION SO THAT AS MUCH OF OUR STORM WATER WE SAVE AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE WE ALL USE WELLS FOR OUR, WELL OUR DRINKING WATER.
UM, SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THERE'S GROUNDWATER AVAILABLE.
THAT'S NOT A HUGE PROBLEM IN THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY, BUT DOESN'T HURT TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT WHILE YOU HAVE THE CHANCE.
WE'VE GOT LOTS OF MOVING PARTS.
WE HOPE TO HAVE AN ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING SOON.
UM, MAY 15TH IS THE DATE WE'VE SET.
I THINK I SENT OUT AN EMAIL TO ALL THE MUNICIPALITIES TO UH, GIVE US A NAME TO SIGN UP FOR THAT COMMITTEE.
AND THAT PERSON SHOULD UNDERSTAND STORMWATER A LITTLE BIT, BUT SHOULD ALSO BE ABLE AND WILLING TO CARRY INFORMATION BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE MUNICIPALITY AND WHOEVER OUR CONSULTING TEAM TURNS OUT TO BE.
UM, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF DATA TO COLLECT AND I SEE YOU GUYS HAVE SOME MS FOUR MAPPING PROJECTS THAT YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON.
THAT'S ALL GONNA BE GREAT INFORMATION.
UM, SO THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE PERSON IS GOING TO HEAR WHAT THE CONSULTANTS ARE DOING, TAKE THAT BACK TO THE MUNICIPALITIES AND AS INFORMATION IS NEEDED FROM THE MUNICIPALITIES, THEY WILL BE RESPONSIBLE TO HELP MAKE SURE THAT THAT DATA GETS, GETS SENT TO WHEREVER IT NEEDS TO GO.
SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE ARE AT THIS POINT.
UM, NOTHING'S REALLY KICKED OFF TOO BIG AT THIS POINT YET.
UM, WE HOPE TO HAVE PUBLIC MEETINGS ALL AROUND WATER SHEDDING AND SEE HOW BIG IT IS.
UM, MOSTLY I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR QUESTIONS AT THIS POINT AND WHAT YOUR ISSUES ARE.
'CAUSE YOU'RE ONLY PARTLY IN THE WATERSHED, YOU HAVE OTHER ISSUES OF CONCERN ALONG THE SCHOOL KILL.
UM, BUT WHAT ARE THE ISSUES THAT YOU GUYS DEAL WITH ON A REGULAR BASIS AND RETIREMENT RANKS?
DEBRIS IS A BIG ONE THESE DAYS.
YEAH, BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MANY DEAD TREES RIGHT NOW.
DO YOU HAVE ANY SPEC, I KNOW YOU HAVE PLACES DOWN, I GUESS ON ALONG ARCOLA ROAD YES.
BY THE BRIDGE WHERE YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE GATES, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
ARE THERE OTHER PLACES WHERE YOU THINK GATES WOULD BE HELPFUL? IN OUR TOWNSHIP, UM, THERE WOULD ONLY BE TWO PLACES.
IT WOULD BE, UH, UPPER INDIAN HEAD ROAD AND THEN UH, AT THE BRIDGE.
SO, SO FOR YOU GUYS, IT'S, YOU DON'T HAVE ISSUES WITH UM, LIKE YOUR SEWER WATER INFRASTRUCTURE BEING AFFECTED BY FLOODING.
YOU DON'T HAVE LIKE WASHOUTS OF PIPES AND THAT KIND OF STUFF.
THAT WE'VE HAD ISSUES THAN THE PER.
UM, SO UNLESS YOU'VE GOT A LOT MORE QUESTIONS, THAT'S KIND OF THE, THE GIST OF MY PRESENTATION AT THIS POINT.
YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN DOING SOME CLEANUP INITIATIVES.
I'M NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE WATERSHED CONSERVANCY AT ALL.
UM, I THINK THAT'S WHERE I GET CONFUSED SOMETIMES.
I USED TO BE THE DIFFERENT, YEAH.
I HAD BEEN THERE AND, AND THEY ARE GONNA PLAY A BIG ROLE IN THIS BOTH IN TERMS OF THE PUBLIC OUTREACH 'CAUSE THEY'VE ALREADY GOT OUTREACH TO SO MANY PEOPLE.
SO IT'S EASY TO, TO BRING THEM INTO THIS.
UH, AND WE'RE ALSO HOPING THAT, UM, IN THE LONG RUN, THE RESULTS OF THIS PLAN WILL SET ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE WATERSHED CONSERVANCY UP FOR 20 YEARS WORTH OF GRANT APPLICATIONS.
I MEAN, IT, IT SHOULD KEEP THEM BUSY FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
DO YOU KNOW HOW ANY OF THE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES HAVE ADDRESSED STORMWATER FEES OR TAX? I KNOW THERE'S THE BIG UH, UM, I THINK WE'VE BEEN DEBATING BOTH SIDES OF THE COURT.
WELL I'D LIKE TO FOLLOW YOU GUYS ALONG
UM, I THINK, I THINK IT'S EASY FOR ALL OF US TO BLAME NEW DEVELOPMENT FOR ALL THE FLOODING PROBLEMS. AND IT, IN MY MIND IT'S MORE A CUMULATIVE EFFECT OF, I DON'T KNOW, THE 200 YEARS OF CONSTRUCTION THAT WE DID WITH NO STORM WATER MANAGEMENT WHATSOEVER IN ALL OUR OLDER COMMUNITIES.
NOW WE ADD IN THE NEW STUFF AND NOW THE STORMS ARE BIGGER AND DROP MORE WATER.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF CONTRIBUTING FACTORS TO WHY WE'RE GETTING MORE FLOODING NOW THAN MAYBE WE DID IN THE PAST.
BUT THE PER KEY'S ALWAYS BEEN.
WHERE'S YOUR PUSHBACK COMING FROM? I'M JUST CURIOUS.
[00:10:01]
WANNA PAY A FEE.SO PART OF THE EDUCATION PROCESS HAS TO BE LETTING EVERYBODY KNOW, LIKE WE'RE ALL MUSKETEERS HERE,
IT'S ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL.
BECAUSE THERE'S GONNA BE SOMETHING FOR ABSOLUTELY EVERY PROPERTY OWNER TO DO.
WHETHER YOU HAVE A TOWNHOUSE OR A FARM, THERE'S GONNA BE SOMETHING SOMEWHERE THAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP ADDRESS STORM WATER.
AND BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS GEOLOGIC FEATURE HERE WHERE SPRING MOUNTAIN AND STONE HILL JUST FUNNEL EVERYTHING, OOPS.
WE'RE REALLY GONNA HAVE TO LOOK HARD FOR WAYS TO, UM, MITIGATE THE STORM WATER THAT'S COMING AT US.
CRYSTAL, WHO'S INVOLVED IN THE UM, UM, ADVISORY COMMITTEE? CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE? THE STEERING COMMITTEE IS THE FOUR COUNTIES, SOME CONSERVATION DISTRICT PERSONNEL AND THE DEP PERSONNEL AND THEY WILL BE THE FIRST CONTACT WITH THE CONSULTING TEAM.
THEY'LL BE THE MOST DIRECT WITH THIS CONSULTING TEAM.
THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE IS MOSTLY, UM, MADE UP OF MUNICIPAL REPRESENTATIVES.
I WANT TO GET REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE BECAUSE WE NEED THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY TO BE ON BOARD WITH THIS AS WELL.
UM, AND AND LIKE I SAID, ALL THOSE PEOPLE, THEIR MAIN TASK WILL BE TO GATHER INFORMATION THAT'S GOING ON AND HELP TRANSLATE THAT BACK TO THEIR COMMUNITIES.
AND THEN VICE VERSA WHEN WE NEED DATA.
SO IT'S GONNA BE A FAIRLY BIG COMMITTEE.
I MEAN THERE'S 55 MUNICIPALITIES AND IF EVERY MUNICIPALITY AND EVERY CHAMBER SENDS SOMEBODY, WE'RE ALREADY UP TO LIKE 65 PEOPLE.
SO, UM, IT'LL BE A BIG ZOOM MEETING FOR SURE.
I KNOW SOMEBODY ALREADY MENTIONED, UM, THE DEBRIS ISSUE, UM, BIGGER THAN THE DEBRIS OR HAVING TO DO WITH IT ALSO IS BLOCKAGE OF THE STORM DRAINS.
SO I ACTUALLY HAD AN INCIDENT ONCE WHERE THE STORM DRAIN IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD WAS BLOCKED UP TO THE POINT WHERE MY CAR GOT FLOODED AND MY ENGINE GOT FLOODED.
AND IT HAS TO DO WITH THE, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE DEBRIS AS WELL.
SO JUST IN ADDITION, MENTIONING THAT, UH, IS A BIG CONCERN OF MINE AND, AND I THINK THE, THE OUTREACH AND EDUCATION HAS TO REACH EVERY PROPERTY OWNER AND EVERY COMMUNITY MEMBER.
SO WHEN YOU SEE AN OUTLET LIKE THAT, MAYBE BY THE TIME YOU GOT THERE IT WAS TOO FLOODED, YOU KNOW, FOR SOMEONE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
ITS JUST A LAKE AT THAT POINT.
BUT, BUT THEY FIGURED OUT THAT THAT WAS WHAT CAUSED IT.
SO THAT'S LIKE YOU SAID, I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN EDUCATED ON THAT.
THAT COULD EVEN BE A THING OR HAPPEN.
UNTIL I WAS SO NOW IF YOU SEE ITS TWO KIDS OUTTA THE VAN, RIGHT? YEAH.
NOW IF YOU SEE IT BEFORE IT RAINS, YOU KNOW, SO WE NEED TO CLEAN THAT UP BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE'RE GONNA BE IN TROUBLE.
DID YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? YOU SAID EARLIER IN YOUR PRESENTATION THAT THE UPPER PORTIONS OF THE WATER SHED HERE THAT YOU WOULD LOOK TO HOLD ORDER BACK MAYBE.
I MEAN ON THE OTHER HAND THAT THE LOWER PORTIONS, WOULD YOU WANT THAT ORDER TO GO WITHOUT BEING HELD BACK? I THINK THAT'S, I KNOW IN OTHER AREAS WHERE THEY'VE DONE THESE 1 67 STUDIES, THAT'S WHAT MOSTLY ENDS UP THE LOWER PORTIONS.
THEY HAVE NO RELEASE TO SAY THEY JUST QUICK RELEASE TO GET IT OUTTA THERE BEFORE THE PEAK OF THE STORM OR THE STREAM HITS.
RATHER THAN BE IMPACT TO THE PEAK.
HOLDING IT BACK TO THE PEAK HITS IS NOT A GOOD THING.
WELL AND AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED THIS HYDROLOGY MODEL AS AN EXAMPLE.
UM, LEHIGH COUNTY DID A 1 67 PLAN, BUT ONLY FOR THE TWO MUNICIPALITIES ON THE UNAMI THAT ARE IN LE LEHIGH COUNTY.
SO THEIR RESPONSE IN THEIR 1 67 PLAN WAS QUICK RELEASE, GET IT OUT OF OUR COMMUNITY AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.
BUT THEN ACROSS THE BORDER IN BUCKS COUNTY AND MILFORD TOWNSHIP, THEY'RE GETTING FLOODED BECAUSE ALL THIS WATER'S COMING AT 'EM ALL OF A SUDDEN AND NOT GETTING MITIGATED.
SO THE THE 1 67 PLAN, THE FLOOD PLAINS, THE FLOOD STUDY, WHATEVER, IT NEEDS TO ENCOMPASS THE WHOLE WATERSHED BECAUSE THERE'S JUST TOO MUCH, TOO MANY MOVING PARTS TO THINK YOU CAN JUST LOOK AT ONE BRANCH OF THE WATERSHED AND SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? AT SOME POINT THERE MAY, I'M GOING TO SAY THIS TO EVERYBODY BECAUSE I WANT EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE WHOLE MUSKETEERS THING, WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.
UM, IF THINGS GO FORWARD AND THERE'S SOME KIND OF A STORM WATER AUTHORITY FOR THE ENTIRE WATERSHED OR PORTIONS OF IT OR WHATEVER, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO HOPE OR TRYING TO DO WITH DEP IS MAKE SURE THAT COMMUNITIES THAT WORK TOGETHER AND IF SOME OF YOUR MONEY GOES TO SOME OTHER COMMUNITY, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE WATER'S COMING FROM, THAT YOU GET CREDIT FOR THAT IN YOUR MS FOUR.
AND I KNOW SOME OF THE SKIP BACK CREEK FOLKS HAVE STARTED TO WORK TOGETHER ON A JOINT MS FOUR SO THEY CAN ADDRESS THINGS WHERE IT'S MOST URGENT AS OPPOSED
[00:15:01]
TO WHICH COMMUNITIES ARE THOSE THAT ARE WORKING TOGETHER.LOWER SOUTHFORD, THE CONSERVANCY IS WORKING WITH HIM.
SO HE, RYAN KNOWS THEIR NAMES, LOWER SOUTHFORD, THAT SECTION THERE IN THE MIDDLE, SKIP THESE LOWER PROVIDENCE I THINK IS PART OF IT.
BUT MOST OF THE SKIP BACK IN LOWER PROVIDENCE IS IN EVANSBURG STATE PARK.
SO I MEAN FOR US IN OUR TOWNSHIP WE'RE, WE'RE BASICALLY WHERE WE HAVE OUR PROVINCE IS JUST SOUTH OF SKIP BAT CREEK AND THEN WE'VE GOT THE EAST BRANCH, THE WEST BRANCH, THE SWAMP CREEK.
I'VE SEEN THAT THING GROW MANY TIMES.
AND WE'RE JUST DOWNSTREAM FROM THAT.
YOU'RE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BOWL.
YEAH, WE ARE THE BOTTOM OF THE POLE.
SO EVERYTHING AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH THAT.
EVERYTHING FROM SCH SHANKSVILLE DOWN IS LIKE A FUNNEL.
IT IS JUST THE NECK OF THE FUNNEL STRAIGHT DOWN.
AND THE OBSERVATION I'VE NOTICED IS WHEN THE BURKE GETS REAL BAD, IT ACTUALLY ACTS LIKE A DAM ON THE SKU AND IT BACKS THE SKU UP ABOVE US.
IT'S GOTTA GO SOME SO HIGHER WATER LEVELS ABOVE UPSTREAM THAN DOWNSTREAM ON THE SCHULE.
AND THAT'S WHAT IDA DID TO US.
THE WATER HAD NO, NO PLACE TO FLOW TOO.
THE SKU ACTS AS A DAM AND PUSHES THE PERKY BACK UP THROUGH.
YEAH, IT JUST HOLDS EVERY BUT UP.
BUT THE BUT FLOOD LEVELS WERE LOWER BELOW THE CONFLUENCE OF THE PERDUE CREEK STORMS EFFECT US DIFFERENT WAYS.
THEY WERE HIGHER OFF WHERE THEY SET UP, SET UP ALL THAT KIND OF GET IT FROM THE PERKY OR ARE WE GONNA GET IT? YOU CAN GET THE DOUBLE WHAMMY IN BOTH OF EM.
YOU GUYS ARE READY TO ENJOY WHERE THEY COME TOGETHER.
SO IT'S GONNA BE A LONG PROCESS.
I'M THINKING IT'S GONNA, IT IS GONNA BE AT LEAST A YEAR AND A HALF TILL WE GET THROUGH THIS WHOLE STUDY AND GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE HAVE SOME GOOD SOLID MITIGATION STRATEGIES THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO PUT INTO THE MODEL AND TEST HOW THEY'RE GONNA, THINGS ARE GONNA RESPOND.
UM, BUT WE'RE GONNA NEED EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION LIKE ALL ALONG THE WAY.
'CAUSE WE HAVE TO REFINE IT AS WE GO.
AND, UM, HAS THE ACTUAL STUDY STARTED? NO, WE HAVE THE RFP HASN'T HIT THE STREET YET.
THE RFP WILL BE COMING OUT THROUGH MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
SO THE COUNTY ITSELF IS DOING THE RFP? YEAH.
AND EVERYTHING GOES THROUGH THE PROCUREMENT OFFICE.
SO IT'S NOT EVEN LIKE THE PLANNING COMMISSION ANYMORE.
YOU KNOW, YOU BE LOOKING FOR ANY INPUT ON THAT RFP OR IS THAT BEING DONE BY THE COUNTY? IF YOU HAVE SUGGESTIONS, NOW'S THE TIME TO GET 'EM IN BECAUSE I WOULDN'T MIND YOU.
WHAT'S THAT? I WOULDN'T MIND YOU LOOKING AT IT.
IT'S PRETTY GENERAL AT THIS POINT BECAUSE WE'RE HOPING THE CONSULTANTS ARE GONNA BE GIVING US GOOD GUIDANCE IN TERMS OF HOW TO GO FORWARD BECAUSE DREW SHAW, WE'RE NOT HYDRO ENGINEERS.
WHO ARE THE CONSULTANTS? WE DON'T KNOW YET.
OH, THAT'S, I HOPE IT'S A TEAM.
I HOPE IT'S A PRETTY BROAD TEAM BECAUSE UH, THAT WHOLE PUBLIC OUTREACH PART ENGINEERS ARE FANTASTIC, BUT THEY'RE NOT R P'S BEEN, UM, THE COUNTY SITE.
IT'S BRIGHT BOX OR BOX LIGHT OR LIGHT BOX OR SOME SITE LIKE THAT THAT THEY POST EVERYTHING ON.
I WILL SEND OUT AN EMAIL TO ALL THE MUNICIPALITIES WHEN IT GETS POSTED SINCE, SINCE MONTGOMERY COUNTY IS, IS, UH, LEADING IS THE LEAD AGENCY ON THE STUDY TO, UH, DREW SHAW, WHO AT ENVIRONMENTAL PERSON FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION.
YOU CAN CONTACT HIM AND AND HE CAN INFORM YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE TOO, I THINK.
I CAN GET YOU A COPY OF THE DRAFT THAT WE HAVE PUT TOGETHER AT THIS POINT IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT.
NONE OF THE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO COMMENT, SO I NEED BE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT GET TOO FAR UPFIELD, BUT UM, BUT YEAH, ONCE IT'S BASED BASICALLY ON OTHER 1 67 RFPS AND KIND OF EXPANDED IN FOR THAT, BUT, UM, SO IT'S NOT THAT MUCH DIFFERENT BUT THE HYDROLOGY MODEL IS THE THING I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO.
UM, SO YOU SAID YOU'RE GONNA NOTIFY MUNICIPALITIES WHEN THAT GETS OUT? WHEN IT DROPS? YES.
YOU NOTICE YOU CAN LET US KNOW 10 WHEN YOU GET YEAH, I'LL LET YOU KNOW WHEN IT DROPS.
SO YOU CAN LET ANY PEOPLE THAT YOU KNOW THAT ARE WORTHY OF THE FIRMS TO DO THIS, LET THEM KNOW.
YEAH, I HOPE THAT'S A GOOD COMPETITION.
YOU'LL BE HEARING LOTS MORE FROM ME.
KEN LAWRENCE TOLD JOE STER, I'M PUSHY.
UH, JOE, I ASSUME WE CAN DO ANY OTHER INFORMATION THINGS HERE INFORMALLY AS LONG AS THERE'S NO MOTIONS.
[4. Update from Authority Engineer on stormwater mapping projects and MS4 compliance activities]
AND GET AN UPDATE FROM, UM,[00:20:01]
MIKE ON MAPPING AND MS FOUR.OUR MS FOUR PROJECT FOR THE TOWNSHIP IS BEING, WILL BE DONE BY A DEVELOPER, WB HOMES UP ON GREENWOOD AVENUE, THE DEVELOPMENT UP THERE, THE MEADOWS AT LONGVIEW.
AS PART OF THAT, THEY HAVE TO DO A BUNCH OF STREAM BANK RESTORATION DOWNSTREAM OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT AND THAT'LL TAKE CARE OF OUR MS FOUR REQUIREMENTS FOR THE FIVE YEAR PERIOD ENDS IN 2025 AND THAT SHOULD BE BEING IMPLEMENTED PROBABLY EARLY NEXT YEAR.
ARE THOSE, UH, ALL ON TOWNSHIP PROPERTY OR THEIR PROPERTY OR WHAT? IT'S ON TOWNSHIP PROPERTY.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE GOING ON FOR THE MS FOUR.
TO ADD TO THAT, PUBLIC WORKS JUST COMPLETED THEIR, UH, OUTFALL INSPECTIONS THEIR FIRST ONE OF THE YEAR.
UM, SO WE DO 25% OF THE TOWNSHIP TWICE A YEAR.
SO WE GET AROUND THE ENTIRE TOWNSHIP TO ALL THE OUTFALLS EVERY, UH, EVERY FOUR YEARS.
SO WE HAVE JUST ON OUR FIRST ONE WE'LL DO ONE PROBABLY MORE TOWARDS FALL AND WE'LL BE GOOD THEN FOR THAT YEAR, FOR THE 25% WE HAVE IT SPLIT UP INTO FOUR ZONES, SO.
[5. Update on Appeal of Commonwealth Court decision regarding the legality of a stormwater fee]
UPDATE ON THE LEGAL ISSUES.I THINK A LOT OF YOU, UH, ARE AWARE THAT THERE WAS A SYMPOSIUM, UH, WHICH WAS STATEWIDE.
UM, THERE WERE SOME TECHNICAL DITCHES WITH IT.
A LOT OF US SIGNED ON AND THEN COULDN'T REALLY HEAR ANYTHING.
UH, BUT THE, THE MATERIALS WERE CIRCULATED ALL OVER THE STATE TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE AFTER THE, AFTER THE PRESENTATION.
AND THAT PRESENTATION WAS LOOKING AT PRIMARILY THE CASE THAT'S PENDING IN FRONT OF THE STATE'S SUPREME COURT ON WHETHER OR NOT THE, UH, CHARGES FOR STORMWATER ARE A FEE OR TAX.
UM, THE GROUPS THAT ARE OUT IN FRONT ON THIS IN DOING THE PRESENTATION, UM, ARE YOU GOOD? OKAY.
I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU, YOU LOCKED IN.
UM, THE, UH, THE, THE GROUPS THAT ARE PRIMARILY DOING THE PRESENTATION ARE, ARE MUNICIPALITIES THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, TO USE THE PHRASE SORT OF OUT OVER THEIR SKIS ALREADY HAVING, HAVING COLLECTED THE TAX AND NOW OR THE MONEY AND HOPING AGAINST HOPE THAT THE DECISION GOES THE RIGHT WAY, UH, FOR THEM BY THE SUPREME COURT AND THAT A LOT OF THEM HAVE ENTERED THEIR APPEARANCE IN THAT CASE, UM, TO ARGUE AS AMICUS, WHICH MEANS FRIENDS OF THE COURT.
UH, SO THERE'S A LOT OF PARTIES WHO ARE IN THAT SUPREME COURT CASE.
UM, AND AGAIN, THAT HINGES ON WHETHER OR NOT THE FEE IS, UH, IS A FEE OR IS A TAX.
A TAX IS A TAX IS USED TO RAISE MONEY AND YOU CAN CHARGE EVERYBODY FOR IT.
THE WAY THE COMMONWEALTH COURT LOOKED AT IT, UM, IF YOU PAY THIS STORMWATER FEE, THEY'RE CALLING IT A FEE.
IT IS REALLY A TAX BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GETTING A SPECIFIC BENEFIT TO YOU.
SO IF YOU, IF YOU PAY YOUR TOWNSHIP, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR, UM, FOR SEWER CONNECTIONS, THE AMOUNT YOU PAY IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE BENEFIT THAT YOU GET IN THEIR EYES.
WHEREAS SOMETHING LIKE STORMWATER, IF THEY PUT A NEW CULVERT IN SOMEWHERE, UH, IT'S NOT A SPECIFIC BENEFIT TO YOU, IT'S JUST A BENEFIT TO THE WHOLE, UH, GROUP.
UM, THE VARIOUS MUNICIPALITIES WHO ARE CHALLENGING THAT THINKING ARE SAYING THAT THE COMMONWEALTH COURT OVERLOOKED A BIG PART OF THAT ANALYSIS.
AND I HAVE TO THINK THAT THAT'S ALSO TRUE.
UM, I, I TOLD KEN BEFORE WE GOT STARTED, I, I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S GONNA GET REVERSED, BUT YOU KNOW THAT IN A DOLLAR WHERE YOU'RE GONNA BE WITH MY, MY PREDICTION, SO I STILL THINK IT'S BETTER TO WAIT, UH, AND NOT DO ANYTHING, ESPECIALLY NOW SINCE WE'RE WITHIN SHOUTING DISTANCE OF A DECISION THAT'S GOING TO, YOU KNOW, ADD, BE, BE DEFINITIVE.
UM, THE, THE ONE ISSUE THAT IS INTERESTING, WHETHER THEY'LL PICK UP ON IT AT THE SUPREME COURT LEVEL TO ME IS, UM, THIS CASE AROSE OUT OF A BOROUGH.
THE BOROUGH OF WESTCHESTER BOROUGHS DON'T HAVE ANY POWER TO CHARGE STORMWATER IN THE BUR IN THE STATE BOROUGH CODE SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIPS DO.
SO, UM, IT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHETHER THE LEGISLATION FOR SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIPS IS ADDRESSED IN THIS CASE BECAUSE IT WASN'T DIRECTLY A PART OF.
IT'S INSTEAD A ROSE OUT OF A BOROUGH.
AS I MENTIONED TO KEN, I THINK I'VE SAID TO YOU GUYS BEFORE THAT RELIEF THAT'S IN THE SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP CODE WAS ORIGINALLY FOR EVERYBODY AND IT ONLY GOT DROPPED FIRST CLASS TOWNSHIPS AND BOROUGHS GOT CUT OUT OF THE PROCESS AS A PART OF NEGOTIATING ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.
THEY DECIDED THEY WOULD ONLY LEAVE IT IN PLACE FOR SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIPS.
[00:25:01]
A PART OF THE CASE COMING UP OUTTA WESTCHESTER, BUT WILL BE A KEY PART OF THE ANALYSIS FOR A SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP.UM, SO FOR NOW, UM, WE ALL SIT BACK, THEY'VE ARGUED IT OR THEY HAVEN'T ARGUED IT.
THEY, THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS OF BRIEFING IT AND THEY'LL ARGUE IT AND THEN WE'LL GET A DECISION AND THEN DECIDE HOW THIS GROUP, YOU KNOW, WANTS TO PROCEED.
AS YOU KNOW, THE CHARTER WAS AMENDED FOR THE AUTHORITIES TO MAKE FOR THIS AUTHORITY TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT USED TO ONLY BE RELATED TO, UM, SANITARY AND NOW TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE SUPERVISORS ON FEES FOR STORMWATER.
UM, SO YOU'LL HAVE YOUR GUIDANCE AFTER THAT SUPREME COURT CASE COMES DOWN.
AND I STILL DON'T, AND I THINK WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT REALLY.
WE SHOULDN'T GET IN A SITUATION OF GETTING AHEAD OF OURSELVES AND DOING ANYTHING BEFORE THAT CASE IS DECIDED AND THEN BEING AN A POSSIBLE REFUNDING MONEY SITUATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE CLOSE AND WE'LL JUST WAIT IT OUT UNTIL THE DECISION COMES.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF THE TIMELINE? JUST CURIOUS.
WELL, THE SUPREME COURT CAN TAKE FOREVER.
UM, AND THAT'S GOOD BY COMPARISON TO THE SUPREME COURT SUPREME, IT'S, IT'S HARD TO EVEN PREDICT.
UM, I READ THROUGH THE SYMPOSIUM, IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.
UM, IT'S A GOOD READ IF ANYONE HAS A MOMENT TO, TO READ IT.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THOUGHT WAS REALLY INTERESTING IN IT IS THAT IT IS PROVING A LOT OF, A LOT OF THE FRIENDS OF THE COURT, SO TO SPEAK, WERE PROVING THAT, UM, STORM WATER IS ACTUALLY A SEWER ISSUE.
SO IT'S, UM, THEY SHOWED SPECIFICS AROUND THAT AND, AND POLLUTION ISSUES.
SO IT, I DO THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHALL BE AWARE OF BEFORE MAKING THE DECISION, UH, JOE, REGARDLESS OF WHICH WAY THE SUPREME COURT DECISION COMES DOWN, UM, MIGHT THERE STILL BE SOME REAL QUESTION AS TO, SINCE IT WAS BROUGHT THROUGH A BOROUGH, WANT THERE STILL BE SOME REAL QUESTION AS TO WHAT THE LEGAL RIGHTS ARE OF SECOND CLASS MUNICIPALITIES, ESPECIALLY IF THEY DON'T ADDRESS THE EXISTING SECTION OF THE SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP CODE THAT ALLOWS THE IMPOSITION OF IT.
YEAH, BUT IF, IF, IF THEY DON'T ADDRESS THAT, THEN PRESUMABLY THAT SECTION WOULD STILL BE VALID NO MATTER WHICH WAY IT GOES.
BUT IF THEY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE COMMONWEALTH COURT ANALYSIS OF HOW THEY CAME UP WITH IT BEING A TAX AND YOU LOOK AT THE, UM, SOME OF THE, THE, THE PHRASES THAT ARE USED TO, TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION, THE SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP CODE SECTION KIND OF USES THOSE SAME, THOSE SAME PHRASES.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE SUPREME COURT WERE TO UPHOLD THE COMMONWEALTH COURT, THEN BY THE LOGIC OF THE COMMONWEALTH COURT, THE SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP LANGUAGE PROBABLY ISN'T VALID.
SEE, SO IT, SO IT REALLY DEPENDS ON NOT JUST WHAT RULING THEY MAKE, BUT WHAT THEY SAY.
SO WOULD THAT BE GROUNDS FOR APPEAL THEN? THERE COULD BE, DEPENDING ON HOW THEY ADDRESS IT, THERE COULD BE A WHOLE OTHER APPEAL FROM SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP ABOUT THE LANGUAGE THAT'S IN THE SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP.
RIGHT NOW THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE IS THAT IS, IS IS REALLY ABOUT, UM, NONPROFITS BECAUSE IF YOU CHARGE IT AS A TAX, THEN ALL THE NONPROFITS DON'T HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE IMPERVIOUS IS THE SAME AS ANYBODY ELSE'S IMPERVIOUS.
AND SO, UM, WE, THE, THE TOWNSHIP WOULD HAVE THE OPTION OF MOVING AHEAD BUT WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO CHARGE IT AGAINST ANY OF THE, UH, NON-PROFITS, WHICH THEN IS SORT OF A BROADER POLITICAL ISSUE, UM, ON IN TERMS OF FAIRNESS.
SO WE WAIT AND DEPENDING ON WHAT IT SAYS IN THE END, WE MIGHT BE WAITING A LOT LONGER.
[6. Project Status Reports: a. Greenwood Avenue Sanitary Sewer Extension b. Township Line Road Sanitary Sewer Extension c. Keokuk Outfall Project d. Second Avenue Force Main Project]
UH, PROJECT STATUS REPORTS, UH, MIKE, UM, GREENWOOD AVENUE SEWER, WE'RE WAITING ON GRANT DOCUMENTS.ONCE WE GET GRANT DOCUMENTS WE CAN ADD THEM TO THE CONTRACT DOCUMENTS AND THEN WE CAN GO OUT TO BID.
SO IT'S JUST WAITING TO GET THE GRANT DOCUMENTS FROM, WE WERE AWARDED THE GRANT, WE WERE AWARDED THE GRANT.
WE JUST NEED THE DOCUMENTS TO PUT IN THE SPEC BOOK.
WHAT'S THE TIMELINE ON THAT? I HAVE NO IDEA.
YEAH, THAT'S GETTING KIND OF PUSHED.
ALRIGHT, UM, TOWNSHIP, MINE ROAD SEWERS WERE STILL IN THE EASEMENT THING, RIGHT, JOE? THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, WE, WE WERE TRYING TO GET EASEMENTS VOLUNTARILY FROM EVERYBODY, BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE FULL PARTICIPATION AND SO I MAY HAVE TO USE THE EMINENT DOMAIN PROCESS FOR SOME OF THOSE
[00:30:01]
ONE, UH, ONE OR MORE.AND I THINK THE LAST ONE ON THERE IS SECOND EMINENT SEWER OR IS THERE ANOTHER ONE BESIDES SECOND EMINENT SEWER? UH, KE COOK OUT ALCOHOL.
CAN YOU COOK OUT FALL WAYNE ON AN EASEMENT THERE TOO FROM THE THAT'S FINE.
THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS OF SIGNING.
SO ONCE THAT GETS SIGNED, WE CAN FINALIZE BID DOCUMENTS THERE AND GO AFTER BID.
AND THEN SECOND AVENUE SEWER, OUR SURVEY CREW WERE SUPPOSED TO BE AFTER THIS WEEK, PICKING UP THE INFORMATION, THE ORIGINAL, THE, UH, EXISTING TOPO AND EVERYTHING THAT'S OUT THERE FROM THE PUMP STATION ALL THE WAY DOWN TO ONE 13.
BUT 'CAUSE OF THE RAIN, IT'S PUSHED BACK TILL NEXT WEEK.
HOPEFULLY WE HAVE A EXISTING FEATURES PLANNED BY THE END OF APRIL AND THEN WE CAN START DOING THE DESIGN TO REPLACE THAT FORCE MAIN AND GRAVITY SYSTEM IN SECOND AVENUE.
ANY, UH, ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ANYBODY JUST ON THAT SECOND AVENUE FORCE PAIN? WE'VE, UH, HAD SOME MEETINGS WITH OUR LOCAL FEDERAL REPS ON POSSIBLE CONGRESSIONAL DIRECTIVE FUNDING, I THINK IS WHAT IT'S CALLED.
EARMARKS TO TRY TO GET SOME FUNDING FOR THIS PROJECT.
SO KEEP, KEEP YOUR IT SECOND WHAT, THREE, TWO AND A HALF MILLION? YEP.
ANYTHING ELSE FOR THE GOOD OF CAUSE? GO AHEAD.
I, ME, IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A MOTION, TONY A MOTION.
WE'RE DONE, WE'RE DONE FOR THE NIGHT.
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR ATTENDANCE AND PARTICIPATION.