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[CALL TO ORDER]
THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE PROVINCE, UH, TOWNSHIPS PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FOR WEDNESDAY, APRIL THE THIRD, 2024.AND WITH THAT, THE FIRST THING ON OUR AGENDA, I HOPE EVERYBODY GOT A COPY OF THE AGENDA.
UH, FIRST THING ON OUR AGENDA IS A MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, THE, THE AGENDA ITSELF.
SO, UH, WE'VE GOT A COUPLE THINGS ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT.
UM, UM, AND THEN, BUT, UH, THE REIFICATION, UM, JEFF'S GONNA TALK THROUGH THAT, AND THAT'S SORT OF A ADMINISTRATIVE THING FOR US.
PUT A MOTION TO THE SUPERVISOR.
SO, SO HE'S GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT BRIEFLY, BUT, UM, UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT.
SO WE GOT A MOTION? WE GOT A MOTION AND A SECOND.
AND CARRY, UH, ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
SO WE'LL MOVE TO, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AG AGENDA ITEMS, PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS. OKAY.
WE'LL MOVE TO, UH, THE GENERAL DISCUSSION.
WE HAVE TWO MEMBERS MISSING TONIGHT.
UH, JEFF, HAS THAT CAUSED US ANY ISSUES? NO.
AS LONG AS YOU FORM, YOU CAN STILL ADOPT THE MINUTES.
UH, GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS. UM, THE MINUTES, UM, FROM MARCH 20TH ARE ATTACHED TO OUR PACKET HERE.
UM, AND, UM, IF YOU HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THOSE, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH, UH, THE WAY I REMEMBER IT.
IF ANYBODY WANTS TO, UH, GIVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES FROM MARCH 20TH, I'LL A MOTION ACCEPT THEM.
WE APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM MARCH 20TH, AND NOW WE'RE DOWN TO,
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
UH, THE REIFICATION DISCUSSIONS.AND I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO JEFF TO KIND OF TELL US WHERE WE'RE AT AT THAT DAY.
SO WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH PAGE BY PAGE.
WE'RE GONNA GO TO 9 98 TONIGHT.
WE'RE GONNA GO PAGE BY PAGE AND DISCUSS EACH AND EVERY ITEM.
NOW, UM, WE'RE GONNA MAKE THIS VERY, VERY QUICK.
REIFICATION FOR THE TOWNSHIP HAS TO HAPPEN.
DOESN'T HAVE TO, BUT IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT IT HAPPENS EVERY COUPLE YEARS, EVERY FIVE TO 10 YEARS TO JUST LET GENERAL CODE, THE COMPANY, THAT SORT OF KEEPER OF THE CODES GOES THROUGH AND MAKE SURE ALL OF OUR LINKS ARE CORRECT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU CROSS REFERENCE FROM ONE ZONING DISTRICT TO ANOTHER.
AND, UM, WHEN YOU, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU CITE CERTAIN BILLS AND OTHER OUTSIDE AGENCIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE NOMENCLATURE'S CORRECT.
UM, THE ONE, THE BIGGEST CHANGE THAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE IN THIS CODE VERSUS OUR CURRENT CODE IS WE'VE TAKEN SUBDIVISION LAND DEVELOPMENT OUT OF SECTION 1 54, AND WE'RE PUTTING THAT IN SECTION TWO 70.
AND WE'RE TAKING ZONING OUT OF SECTION 180 2 AND MAKING IT SECTION 300.
THAT'S BECAUSE THESE SECTIONS TEND TO, AS YOU'VE NOTICED, GET ADDED TO MORE OFTEN THAN OTHER SECTIONS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
SO WE'RE GIVING OURSELVES A LITTLE BIT OF WIGGLE ROOM IN THOSE SECTIONS TO EXPAND AND TO ADD NUMBERS AND, AND TO, YOU KNOW, NOT HAVE 180 2 DASH 22.
YOU KNOW, THAT GETS A LITTLE CONFUSING AFTER A WHILE.
SO, UM, I CAN GO THROUGH THE SPECIFICS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN, IN SUBDIVISION LAND DEVELOPMENT OR IN, IN ZONING.
IT REALLY IS CRUSH REFERENCES, UPDATING DEFINITIONS, TECHNICAL STUFF, NOTHING REALLY OF SUBSTANCE, BUT IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT, IT IS JUST SOMETHING WE SORT OF HAD, HAD TO GO THROUGH.
WHO, WHO'S THE AUTHORSHIP OF THOSE? THAT AUTHORSHIP GENERAL CODE GAVE US ABOUT A YEAR AGO, A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, GENERAL CODE WENT THROUGH OUR CODE AND PRESENTED US WITH A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS.
SO LIKE, IN THIS SECTION, YOU SAY, THIS IS THIS WHAT YOU NEED TO SAY? UM, AND CHERYL IN OUR OFFICE DIVIDED THAT UP BETWEEN ZONING QUESTIONS, SUBDIVISION QUESTIONS.
THERE ARE POLICE CODE QUESTIONS.
THERE'S, YOU KNOW, EVERY CODE THAT'S IN THIS THOUSAND PAGE BOOK HAD QUESTIONS.
AND EVERY DEPARTMENT SORT OF LOOKED AT IT AND SAID, HOW DO WE WANT TO FIX IT? HOW DO WE WANT TO READ IT? UM, AND WE WENT BACK, MADE SUGGESTED CHANGES, AND THEN THERE WAS A COUPLE OF BACK AND FORTHS WITH GENERAL CODE.
BUT THIS IS WHAT GENERAL CODE DOES FOR A LIVING.
THEY, THEY HAVE PEOPLE THAT SPECIFICALLY JUST READ THIS CODE AND CHECK EVERY CROSS REFERENCE AND CHECK EVERY, YOU KNOW, ACT, NAME OF ACTS AND DEPARTMENTS AND, AND DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND THEIR PURPOSE IS TO TRY TO MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAR.
YES, THERE'S NO AMBIGUITY IN IT.
UM, NOTEPAD LINKS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
ESPECIALLY NOW SINCE IT'S ONLINE.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE REALLY ONLY GONNA MAINTAIN TWO CODE BOOKS IN THE TOWNSHIP, ONE IN THE FRONT DESK, ONE IN THE BACK OFFICE.
YOU KNOW, YOU, WE USED TO GET A ZONING BOOK AND, AND WE GET UPDATED PAGES FOR THE CODES.
EVERYTHING IS ONLINE NOW, SO THE CROSS REFERENCES, IT'S A LOT EASIER TO FOLLOW 'EM, BUT YOU, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO THE RIGHT PLACE.
SO WHAT WILL THE SUPERVISORS DO WITH THIS? THEY WILL HAVE A HEARING, UM, BECAUSE OF THE ZONING PORTION OF IT AND THE SUBDIVISION LAND DEVELOPMENT PORTION OF IT, THEY HAVE TO HAVE A FULL BLOWN HEARING, WHICH WE'LL DO ON THE 22ND.
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JOE AND I WILL GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON THIS.NOTHING MUCH DIFFERENT THAN I'VE GIVEN NOW.
AND THEN WE WILL, UM, HOPEFULLY THEY'LL MOVE TO APPROVE IT.
UH, PUBLIC COMMENT ALLOWED AT THAT TIME.
UH, SHOULD WE ASK FOR ANY PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS TODAY? SURE.
ANY COMMENT, ANY PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS? UH, UH, AS IT SITS RIGHT NOW, BEFORE WE ACT ON IT, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UM, IF, IF YOU, DO YOU HAVE TO RECITE WHAT'S ON PAGE 8 42? DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE, UM,
WE'RE NOT THERE LATE, SO I HAVE, YEAH, WE'RE NOT THERE YET.
SO WE, SO, UH, OUR ACTION THOUGH, JEFF, IS TO APPROVE THIS TO THE SUPERVISORS, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
AND REALLY YOU'RE ONLY DOING THE ZONING AND SUBDIVISION PART OF IT, BUT YOU CAN, CAN JUST SAY THE REIFICATION AS PRESENTED TO THE PLAN, COMMISSION.
ANY QUESTIONS? JAIL OR BOBBY? GOT GUYS, ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS? NO, I THINK IT MAKES SENSE.
MM-HMM,
EVERYBODY, PLEASE DO THAT SAME PROCESS.
WELL THEN IF THAT'S IT, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO, UH, RECOMMEND APPROVAL TO THE SUPERVISORS FOR THEIR APRIL 22ND MEETING.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION IF WE PRESENT THAT AS A SUPERVISORS RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL.
WE PASS THAT, JEFF, YOU PASS THAT ON.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE, UH, TRUE DEFINITION OF ADMINISTRATIVE DUTIES.
UM, OKAY, SO MOVING ON DOWN, WE'RE GONNA, THE APPLICATION
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON APRIL 3, 2024]
WE'RE HEARING TONIGHT, UH, IS ON THE RESIDENCE IN AT, UH, PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.I GUESS THERE'S SOME CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE SINCE WE HEARD THIS A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
AND, AND YOU GUYS HAVE ALREADY STARTED CONSTRUCTION.
YOU NOW YOU'RE COMING BACK LOOKING FOR SOME CHANGES.
SO, UH, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO YOU, ED.
UH, TO START, GOOD EVENING, ED MUL AND BRAD
UM, AS YOU INDICATED ORIGINALLY, WE PRESENTLY HAVE AN APPROVED PLAN FOR FOUR PHASE OF THREE PHASES OF APARTMENTS AND A HOTEL.
UH, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS CHANGING THAT TO TWO PHASES AND DROPPING THE HOTEL AND INCREASING THE NUMBER OF APARTMENT UNITS FROM 586 TO 700.
AND, UM, SO BASICALLY WHAT WE HAVE IS TWO REVIEW LETTERS, UH, ONE FROM OH ONE FROM GILMORE.
THEY'RE THREE PAGES LONG, UH, RECOMMEND APPROVAL.
WE HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH WITH YOUR CONSULTANTS AND HAVE AMENDED THE PLANS AND AMENDED THE PLANS AND ARE NOW READY TO SEEK APPROVAL.
UH, YOU, I THINK BELIEVE YOU HAVE A WAIVER REQUEST LETTER IN FRONT OF YOU.
UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY HAS ANY PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THE WAIVERS.
GILMORE SAID WE LEAVE IT UP TO THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER, TRAFFIC ENGINEER SAID THIS PLAN'S READY FOR APPROVAL.
SO, UH, WE'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.
UH, BASICALLY WE'RE LOOKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION FOR PRODUCT LAND APPROVAL.
UM, ED, I GOT ONE QUESTION ON, ON THIS.
THIS SLIDE THAT'S UP THERE RIGHT NOW.
WHAT, WHERE, WHERE IS THE NEW BUILDING AND WHERE WAS THE OLD BUILDING? BRAD, DO YOU WANT, DO YOU HAVE A, YOU HAVE A POINTER THERE? MAYBE CAN, CAN YOU PICK BOTH OF 'EM UP AT THE SAME TIME? IT MIGHT BE EASIER TO SHOW.
SO THIS BUILDING HERE IS THE ONE THAT WAS JUST RECENTLY COMPLETED.
AND THIS, THIS WILL BE THE NEXT BUILDING IN LINE.
THIS IS THE PARK, UH, THIS IS THE ORIGINAL CLUBHOUSE.
AND WE HAD A COUPLE, UH, APARTMENT S TO THE WEST AND THEN HAD YOUR HOTEL.
AND BASICALLY YOU CAN SEE OUR, KIND OF GOES FROM THE RIGHT SIDE TO THE LEFT TO FOLLOWS THE DIRECTION OF THE, OF THE, THE PROPERTY ITSELF.
SO THE NEW PLAN, THERE YOU GO.
YOU CAN SEE THAT EVERYTHING WITH THE DIAGONAL LINES IS WHAT, WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED.
AND, UH, CON CONSTRUCTION WAS COMPLETED.
THIS IS THE NEXT BUILDING IN LINE TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE.
[00:10:01]
BUILDING D, EF AND G WANTS TO THE LEFT HAND SIDE.SO BASICALLY THE SAME DIRECTION, BUT, BUT THE, UH, THE HOTEL GOING
DO YOU WANT THIS ONE OR YOU WANT THE OTHER ONE? I WANT THE OTHER ONE.
SO HERE WHERE THE, THE HOTEL BUILDING USED TO BE AND WILL NOW BE, UH, INSTEAD OF BEING HUNDRED 20 APARTMENTS, THAT'LL, THAT WOULD BE A APARTMENT.
COULD YOU POINT RIGHT AT THAT HOTEL BUILDING OR WHERE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE? I THINK YOU WERE POINTING AT ABOUT THREE DIFFERENT LOCATIONS.
SO BUILDING, UM, G WOULD BE THE NEW BUILDING YES.
BUT AS WE'VE DONE THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE PROJECT, WE'VE CONSULTED WITH OUR NEIGHBORS BEHIND US.
SO HE CAN TELL YOU THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE CONSULTED WITH THEM ON ALL THESE CHANGES.
WHAT, UH, WHAT'S THE REASON FOR THIS? WHAT'S, WHAT WHAT'S THE REASON FOR THE CHANGE THAT WE PROVE? THE REASON FOR THE CHANGE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IS THAT THE, UH, DEMAND FOR APARTMENTS FAR EXCEEDED WHAT WE EVER ANTICIPATED.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE AGING OF THE POPULATION OR THE INCREASE IN INTEREST RATES, BUT WHATEVER IT IS, THERE'S A REAL DEMAND FOR APARTMENTS.
WHAT ABOUT DEMAND FOR HOTELS? WE HAVE NOT SEEN THAT SAME DEMAND THAT MAYBE PEOPLE AREN'T TRAVELING AS MUCH AS THEY DID PRE COVID.
IT'S JUST GOING BY WHAT THE MARKET'S TELLING US.
HOW MANY CHILDREN WOULD YOU ANTICIPATE THESE APARTMENTS TO HAVE? WHICH WOULDN'T BE IN A HOTEL THAT WOULD GO TO SCHOOL IN SPRING FORD SCHOOL DISTRICT? I'M SORRY, BOB, I COULDN'T HEAR YOU IN SPRING FORD SCHOOL DISTRICT.
HOW MANY CHILDREN WE DON'T HAVE.
WOULD YOU ANTICIPATE THAT THESE WE DON'T GENERATE ANY SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN AT ALL, BRAD, DO YOU IT CAN.
IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE I PROVIDED TESTIMONY ON IT, BUT I THINK IT WAS LIKE 19.
AND THE REASON FOR THAT, THE REASON FOR THE 19 KIDS.
WELL, REASON, SO WHAT THE REASON IS THAT MOST OF APARTMENTS, PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING HERE ARE EITHER PRE-KIDS OR YOUNG KIDS OR POST KIDS, POST KIDS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE KIDS, SCHOOL AGE KIDS TYPICALLY WANT TO LIVE IN A, IN A HOUSE AND I MEAN, GO HARD AND ALL THAT STUFF.
AND THOUGH RIGHT NOW IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO START OUT THAT WAY 'CAUSE OF THE INTEREST RATES.
BUT THAT WILL CHANGE EVENTUALLY.
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANNA SAY OR, THE ONLY THING I I, I KNOW OUR, UH, TRAFFIC CONSULTANT SO LOOKED AT THIS, I WAS JUST CURIOUS, YOU KNOW, HOW THE, THE TRAFFIC, YOU KNOW, THE HOTEL VERSUS THE APARTMENTS COMPARE, YOU KNOW, IS THERE ANY SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT MIGHT BE GENERATED BY EACH OF THOSE USES? I MEAN, YEAH, I, I MEAN I, YOU KNOW, THE SPECIFIC NUMBERS, I DON'T RECALL OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
I, I KNOW WE DID LOOK AT THAT INFORMATION WHEN IT WAS PRESENTED.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE CHANGES WERE.
SO THERE WAS LIKE A TRIP COMPARISON THAT WAS DONE, YOU KNOW, TO OBSERVE WHAT WAS PROPOSED PREVIOUSLY VERSUS WHAT WAS PROPOSED IN THE, IN THIS CONDITION.
UM, AND IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT, UM, THE INTERSECTIONS THAT WERE IMPACTED AND, UH, THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WERE REQUIRED, THERE WAS, THERE WAS NO CHANGE THERE.
YOU KNOW, LIKE THE, THE DIRECTION OF TRAFFIC, ET CETERA, ALL THAT REMAINED, THE IMPACT INTERSECTIONS REMAINED THE SAME.
SO THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WERE DONE WITH THE ROUNDABOUT AND THE OFFSET IMPROVEMENTS AT MENNONITE AND ONE 13, THEY, THEY DIDN'T CHANGE WITH, WITH THE MODIFICATIONS.
AS ANTHONY POINTED OUT IN HIS LETTER, WE ACTUALLY HAVE FEWER TRIPS NOW THAN WE DID WITH THE HOTEL.
I THINK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A SITUATION HERE WHERE WE'RE TALKING, THEY'RE, THEY'RE SEEKING A REVISION TO THEIR FINAL APPROVAL.
SO EVEN IF YOU SAID YOU WANTED THEM TO DO IT OVER, THEY HAVE PRELIMINARY APPROVAL, RIGHT? SO YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE CRITERIA FROM THE PRELIMINARY APPROVAL AND THERE IS NO DIFFERENT IMPACT, SUBSTANTIALLY DIFFERENT IMPACT THAT WOULD CAUSE YOU TO MAKE THEM GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING AND CALL IT AN
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ENTIRELY NEW PLAN AND START OVER.I JUST DON'T THINK WE NEED A CITY OUT THERE.
AND THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT IT IS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THAT FROM VERNER'S FARM ACROSS THE FIELD, IT LOOKS LIKE THE SKYLINE OF PHILADELPHIA, AND I KNOW ALL THIS BURNS, WERE GONNA HIDE EVERYTHING, EVEN PUT 'EM IN, IN THE BEGINNING STAGES SO THAT THE SHRUBBERY WOULD GROW FASTER AND ALL THAT.
YOU STILL SEE IT, BUT WOULD IT BE LESS A CITY SKYLINE WITH THE HOTEL? THAT'S ALL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE HOTEL VERSUS AOR APARTMENTS.
I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT ARGUMENT THOUGH, JOE, BECAUSE I, YOU KNOW, THE HOTEL PEOPLE ARE COMING AND GOING OR LEAVING.
THEY'RE PROBABLY GETTING ON 29 ON 4 22 AND THEY'RE OUT OF HERE.
THESE PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE HERE ALL THE TIME.
SO THEY'RE GONNA BE USING RESOURCES AND ROADS IN SCHOOLS IN THE COMMUNITY ALREADY.
AND I PERSONALLY, FOR ONE, AND I, YOU KNOW, I'M SORRY TO SAY THIS 'CAUSE I LOVE YOU GUYS, BUT I JUST DON'T SEE THE NEED FOR IT.
I JUST DON'T SEE ANOTHER APARTMENT BUILDING HERE IN THE TOWNSHIP WITH ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON IN THE TOWNSHIP ALREADY THAT WE'RE TRYING TO, TRYING TO MANAGE.
NOW YOU'RE ASKING TO PUT 115 MORE APARTMENTS IN THE, IN THE BUILDING, IN THE COMMUNITY.
I THE ARGUMENT SKYLINE, YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT.
I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SKYLINE'S GONNA LOOK LIKE.
NOW, I, I AGREE WITH PAUL ON THAT, BUT, ALRIGHT, BUT THESE PEOPLE ARE STAYING, THEY'RE NOT LEAVING.
IT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE HOTEL.
I THINK THERE WAS AN, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S IN ANTHONY'S LETTER, BUT WE DID HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT, UH, BEFORE WHERE I THOUGHT, I THOUGHT THAT THE DIFFERENCE WAS THAT, THAT SOMEBODY SAID THAT THE DIFFERENCE WAS THE TOTAL ISN'T, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN APARTMENTS WHO ARE CONSTANTLY GOING TO BE MAKING USE OF THE AREA.
THE HOTEL IS GOING TO HAVE JUST DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND THEY'RE, AND THEY'RE NOT PERMANENT.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO, TO THE BARBER SHOP IN ROERS FOR, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO THE, TO THE, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, SUBWAY SHOP.
I MEAN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT DOING THE STUFF THAT PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE ARE DOING ON A DAILY BASIS.
BUT THEY MAY, WOULDN'T IT MAKE SENSE THAT THEY WOULD BE MAKING MORE TRIPS? BECAUSE IF THEY'RE HERE ON VACATION OR THEY'RE NOT, TO ME IT DOESN'T, NO.
I MEAN, AGAIN, WE CAN ARGUE THAT BACK AND FORTH.
I THINK MOST PEOPLE THAT ARE STAYING IN A HOTEL, JUST LIKE THE, THE TWO ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD UP THE HILL, THEY STAY, THEY STAY FOR A NIGHT.
A COUPLE NIGHTS THEY NIGHT THEY ONE TRIP TO A A, A RELATIVE'S HOUSE, THEN THEY'RE OUTTA HERE, THEY'RE ON 4 22 AND THEY'RE GONE.
WELL, YOUR, YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN, BUT REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THAT'S THE CORRECT VIEW OR OR ANOTHER VIEW IS THE CORRECT VIEW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
SO WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE USUAL, IT'S, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT AN ORDINANCE CHANGE WHERE YOU'RE DISCUSSING POLICY OR WHAT THE TOWNSHIP NEEDS OR SHOULD HAVE.
WE'RE JUST REVIEWING A LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN, WHICH IS AN I DOTTING WELL PROCESS, BUT YOU'RE CHANGING WHAT WAS ALREADY YEAH, I CAN'T GOOD, GOOD CONSCIOUS SIT HERE AND SAY I'M GONNA PROVE IT JUST BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S A, YOU KNOW, IT'S A NET ZERO.
I DON'T THINK IT'S A NET ZERO.
I'M GONNA, YOU KNOW, I, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE NEED ANOTHER 115 APARTMENTS IN THE COUNTRY AND, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY IF WE KNEW WHAT WE KNEW NOW, YOU KNOW, THREE YEARS AGO OR FOUR YEARS AGO, I THINK GUYS FIRST APPROACHED IT, I'D PROBABLY HAVE BEEN A LOT TOUGHER ON THIS COMMUNITY THAN I WAS NOW, BUT I JUST CAN'T SEE ADDING ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER 115 APARTMENTS.
THAT, THAT'S HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT.
I GET YOU GUYS, PLEASE EXPRESS YOURSELVES.
THERE WAS A HUNDRED AND SOME PEOPLE WERE IN THE MEETING ROOM ORIGINALLY WHEN YOU CAME IN WITH THE PLANS AND, YOU KNOW, AND BACK AND FORTH, BACK AND FORTH.
I GUESS YOU PACIFIED THOSE TO THE POINT AT LEAST WHERE YOU COULD PROCEED.
UM, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD RESPECTIVELY SUGGEST, TOM, IS THAT AS JOE INDICATED, WE DID GO THROUGH THE REZONING PROCESS AND DURING THAT TIME, THAT REZONING PROCESS, WE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT AT THE VARIOUS MEETINGS AND HEARINGS AND CAME UP AND CAME UP WITH THE ORIGINAL PLAN.
UH, WE AS THE
YOU DON'T THINK YOU NEED MORE APARTMENTS.
THAT'S KIND OF OUR RISK IF YOU ARE RIGHT, IF APARTMENTS WILL EPT AND SAY, BOY, WISH YOU GO TO A HOTEL.
IF, IF, IF THIS GETS APPROVED AND YOU BUILD THE APARTMENT, I DON'T WANNA SEE IT FAIL.
I DON'T WANNA SEE A VACANT BUILDING SITTING BACK THERE.
MY POINT IS THAT, UH, WE APPROVED A HOTEL WITH APARTMENT BUILDINGS.
WE THOUGHT THAT WAS A REASONABLY GOOD PLAN AT THE TIME.
LIKE I SAID, PROBABLY EVEN ARGUED DIFFERENTLY TODAY IF IT WAS SOMETHING, IF IT WAS TOTALLY NEW TO US, BUT WE APPROVED IT AND NOW WE'RE CHANGING IT.
AND I'M JUST NOT SURE THAT I'M, I'M PERCENT BEHIND THE CHANGE.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE APARTMENT USED IS JUST WAY, WAY DOWN.
I MEAN, YOU HAVE THE ONES, WHAT'S THAT? YOU HAVE THE APARTMENTS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 4 22 THAT I THINK ARE HAVING OCCUPANCY ISSUES.
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OR THE APARTMENTS? BRAD? PARDON? THE HOTELS OR THE APARTMENTS? HOTELS.WELL, I UNDERSTAND THE APARTMENTS AREN'T THAT CRAZY FULL EITHER.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT, ABOUT THE APARTMENTS.
WE SURE MEET A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL OUT APARTMENTS.
I, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, JOHN.
I'M JUST SAYING ME, I'M NOT, I'M, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND IT COMES DOWN, WE'RE GONNA VOTE ON THIS.
I'M GOING TO VOTE THE WAY I THINK THAT THE THING FAILED.
I DON'T WANNA SEE IT FAIL, BUT I'M NOT NECESSARILY AFFORD ADDING APARTMENTS AT THIS POINT.
WE'VE GOT ANOTHER, WHAT, 200 AND SOME DOWN 28, UH, ON 29.
THAT'S ANOTHER SET OF APARTMENTS THAT HAVEN'T STARTED YET.
I DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY'LL EVER START.
UM, AGAIN, I DON'T, I'M SURE ANTHONY, YOU KNOW, DID HIS WORK AND I I TRUSTED 150%.
I JUST PERSONALLY THINK THAT AN APARTMENT, THEY'RE GONNA BE IN THE COMMUNITY MORE THAN A HOTEL.
THEY'RE GONNA BE DRIVING AROUND THE COMMUNITY MORE THAN A, CERTAINLY A SCHOOL.
AND TOM, THE SCHOOL AND TOM, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S MORE BENEFICIAL THAN SOMEONE WHO'S A TRANSITORY MAYBE HERE FOR A WEEKEND.
AGAIN, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.
AND, AND THERE'S SOMETHING I DO WANNA SHARE WITH YOU.
AND AGAIN, YOU VOTE HOW YOU WANT TO VOTE.
I I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
YOU, YOU DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.
WE WERE IN HERE A COUPLE MONTHS AGO AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD TO HAVE A POLICE OFFICER HERE OCA OCCASIONALLY.
HE, HE ASKED ME ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IF THE HOTEL WAS STILL GOING IN BACK HERE.
AND I SAID, NO, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TRYING TO GET OUT OF IT.
AND HE ASKED, AND I SAID, WHY, WHY ARE YOU ASKING ME? HE SAID, BECAUSE HOTELS ARE THE WORST AND THE MOST PHONE, MOST CALLS WE GET.
SO I, I SAID, WELL, I WANNA FIND OUT THE FACTS OF THAT.
SO I HAD CHIEF PULL UP ALL THE FACTS AND FIGURES OF HOW MANY POLICE CALLS THEY GET FOR THE DIFFERENT HOTELS AND THE DIFFERENT, UM, APARTMENT COMPLEXES THAT WE HAVE IN THE TOWNSHIP.
AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS THAT ARE ON THE SCREEN, NOT A WIDE RANGE, IT'S NOT LIKE HOTELS ARE AT 3000 AND APARTMENTS ARE AT 105.
YOU KNOW, THE NUMBERS ARE FAIRLY COMPARABLE.
BUT THE ONE THING THE CHIEF DID SAY TO ME IS THAT THE HOTELS ARE THE WORST CALLS THEY GET.
THE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, THE DRUGS, THE EVEN THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT, THAT AS PEOPLE WHO COME IN AND EVEN DURING COVID, WE HAD A REAL PROBLEM WITH SQUATTERS IN THE HOTEL.
THEY WOULD COME IN AND THEY WOULD STAY.
AND IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO KICK THEM OUT.
AND THAT'S WHY I AM HESITANT TO EVER SUGGEST HOTELS AT ANYMORE.
SO I YOUR OPINION IS CERTAINLY VALID, BUT I HOLD THE OPPOSITE.
AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THESE VOTES, RIGHT? RIGHT.
WE'RE GONNA TAKE A VOTE, YOU VOTE, WE'RE GONNA MAKE A DECISION ON IT.
AND YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAY, I'M NOT LOOKING FOR ANYBODY TO FAIL HERE.
I'M, I I'M JUST LOOKING TO SAY WHAT'S THE FUTURE FOR THE COMMUNITY? AND ALL I'VE HEARD OVER THE LAST SIX, EIGHT MONTH YEAR IS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO CONTROL THE AMOUNT OF BUILDING IN THE COMMUNITY.
WE'RE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, REALLY MANAGE IT THE BEST WE CAN.
AND, UH, AND I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE BEST, THE BEST, UH, DECISION THAT WE COULD MAKE.
IT IS FOR ME TO, TO SEND IT TO THE SUPERVISOR.
I'M NOT SURE THAT I'M WILLING TO DO THAT.
AND STATISTICS ARE STATISTICS, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THERE'S A APARTMENTS, THESE PEOPLE AREN'T, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY'RE TRANSIENT TOO.
'CAUSE IT IS AN DEPARTMENT, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THERE'S PROBLEMS IN THERE TOO.
I'M SURE THERE'S DRUGS IN THERE AND I'M SURE THERE'S DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.
THERE'S, AND THERE'S DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD.
MY MY POINT WASN'T TO, YOU KNOW, TO, TO THROW STATISTICS AT YOU.
I JUST, YOU WERE HERE WHEN WE WERE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION AND I I THOUGHT THAT YOU WERE, I THOUGHT THAT YOU OVERHEARD IT.
SO TO ME, JUST UNDERSTANDING WHAT HE MEANT BY THAT, I WANTED TO GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING THAN JUST THE POLICE OFFICER WHO I ACTUALLY TRUST.
BUT UNTIL I GOT NUMBERS FROM CHIEF FREEMAN, I WASN'T SURE.
AND YES, THE NUMBERS AREN'T, AS I SAID, COMPLETELY OUTTA WHACK THAT I LEFT AND I JUST HAD THE NUMBERS.
AND THEN CHIEF FOLLOWED UP WITH AN EMAIL.
LIKE AFTER I SAID, THANK YOU FOR THE NUMBERS.
HE GOES, OH, JUST BY THE WAY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE WORST CALLS WE GET GO TO THE HOTELS, NOT TO THE APARTMENTS.
SO AGAIN, AND WORST IS THE SUBJECTIVE NAME, AND ITS OBJECTIVE SUBJECTIVE TERM FOR IT.
AND SO YOU, YOU TAKE IT FOR WHATEVER VALUE YOU WANNA PUT ON IT.
AND I'VE ALREADY MADE MY POINT CLEAR ALSO, JEFF, THAT IF THIS WAS THREE YEARS AGO OR FIVE YEARS AGO OR WHENEVER WE FIRST GOT THIS, I PROBABLY WOULD LOOK AT THIS EVEN MORE CRITICALLY NOW THAN I DID THEN THERE'S SO, SO THERE'S A PRETTY BIG DIFFERENCE BEFORE THERE WAS A ZONING CHANGE.
SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A ZONING ORDINANCE CHANGE, YOU GUYS HAVE ALL THE DISCRETION TO DO WHAT YOU ASSUMED YOU WOULD BE DOING, SIGNING UP FOR A PLANNING COMMISSION, WHICH IS PLAN.
AND THEN WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE NEW ORDINANCE, THAT'S WHERE, WHERE YOU'RE REALLY DOING PLANNING.
THE REALITY OF PLANNING COMMISSION WORK SO MUCH OF THE TIME IS REVIEWING LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS, WHICH NO LONGER ARE CONCERNED WITH WHAT YOU THINK IS A GOOD FIT.
THE OPINION PART OF IT WAS INCORPORATED BACK INTO CHANGING THE ORDINANCE TO ALLOW THE PLAN.
ONCE YOU HAVE A SUBDIVISION AND LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN IN FRONT OF YOU, THE, THE
[00:25:01]
QUESTION IS, DOES IT COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE? AND DOES IT COMPLY SATISFY THE CONCERNS OF YOUR ENGINEERS? AND SOMETIMES ME, SO I FULLY UNDERSTAND AND VALUE WHAT YOUR OPINION IS.IT'S JUST WHAT I HEAR A LOT FROM PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS IS IN RECOGNITION OF WHAT I'M SAYING RIGHT NOW.
I DON'T THINK WE NEED ANOTHER 115 WHATEVER APARTMENTS, BUT IT DOES COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE AND SATISFY THE CONCERNS OF OUR WELL, BUT SEE THERE'S A, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE HERE, JOE, AND, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR OPINION AND I KNOW YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT ALL, YOU KNOW, SEEM, BUT I JUST CANNOT SIT HERE AND, AND, AND BENIGNLY SAY, I'M GONNA SEND THIS UP TO SUPERVISOR WITH MY RECOMMENDATION.
NOW WHAT THEY DO WITH IT, I HAVE NO CONTROL.
AND, AND IF THEY VOTE ON IT, LIKE I SAY, I'M FOR SUCCESS.
IF IT'S GONNA COME, I WANT IT TO BE SUCCESSFUL.
BUT ME SITTING HERE RIGHT NOW, I'M GOING TO LOOK AT IT A LITTLE MORE CRITICAL HIGH.
AND I WISH I COULD BE AS BENIGN.
LIKE I SAY THAT YOU WANT ME TO BE, BUT I CAN'T, YOU KNOW, I STILL GOTTA HAVE MY OPINION.
I STILL GOTTA LOOK AT IT AND SAY I'M CRITICAL OF THIS THING.
TOM, THE ONLY THING I WOULD ASK IS IF, IF YOU VOTE, AND IF YOU VOTE NOT TO RECOMMEND IT, THAT YOU MAKE IT CLEAR THAT YOUR REASON FOR YOUR VOTING NOT TO RECOMMEND IT IS BECAUSE YOU'D RATHER HAVE THE HOTEL THAN THE A HUNDRED SOME APARTMENTS AS OPPOSED TO THE PLAN'S.
UM, AND I WON'T DO THAT, ED, BECAUSE I'M NOT EVEN SURE I WANT THE HOTEL AT THIS POINT.
LIKE I SAY, IF I COULD DO GO BACK IN HISTORY, I MIGHT LOOK AT THIS A LOT MORE CRITICALLY.
SO MY RECOMMENDATION IS THAT AT THIS POINT, WHEN WE VOTE AND WHATEVER THE MOTION, HOW WE, WE PROPOSED A MOTION IS THAT WE, YOU KNOW, IT IT MINIMUM KEEP IT THE WAY IT WAS.
AND, AND, AND AGAIN, LIKE I SAY, I'M NOT EVEN CRAZY ABOUT THAT AT THIS POINT, THREE YEARS, FOUR YEARS, WHATEVER IT IS.
LIKE, BUT I'M NOT GONNA DO ABOUT THAT.
SO, SO NOW I'VE GOTTA LOOK AT WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO DIFFERENTLY AND SAY, OKAY, DO I FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT? AND I REALLY DON'T.
AGAIN, I'M NOT LOOKING FOR YOU TO FAIL, OTHERWISE WE'RE JUST ROBOTS UP HERE.
I MEAN, I CAN SIT HERE AND SAY, OKAY, LOOKS GOOD, BONE GOOD, PASS IT TO THE SUPERVISOR, BUT YOU KNOW, GOOD CONSCIENCE, I JUST CAN'T DO THAT.
BUT I DON'T FEEL MYSELF THAT IT'S A GOOD DEAL.
AND I HAVE TALKED TO THE SUPERVISORS ALREADY AND GOTTEN THEIR OPINION ON THAT, QUITE FRANKLY.
UM, THEY LOOK TO US AS TO WHETHER WE APPROVE OR DON'T APPROVE SOMETHING.
UM, SOMETIMES THEY NEED THAT DECISION.
I GUESS THE DIFFERENCE IS IN THIS ONE IS, AS JOE HAS INDICATED, WE'RE ENTITLED TO APPROVE WHETHER YOU RECOMMEND IT OR NOT.
I AGREE TO THE BOARD, THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.
WE HAVE TO APPROVE IT OR THEY'RE GONNA NOT REPORT, NOT LOSE, NOR WE, WE STAND IN THE WAY OF THAT.
WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO STAND IN THE WAY OF THAT.
EACH OF US HERE IS GONNA VOTE ON OUR CONSCIOUSNESS.
AND THAT'S ALL IT IS, IT'S OPINION.
AND AGAIN, I WISH I COULD NOT HAVE AN OPINION AND JUST SAY, OKAY, BOOM, IT'S RUBBER STAMP IT LIKE WE JUST DID WITH THE, UH, CODIFICATION, BUT I JUST CAN'T, I JUST, I'M NOT GONNA DO THAT.
IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT COME UP, STATE YOUR NAME.
I LIVE AT, UH, THREE ONE COME UP FRONT.
BE RIGHT BEHIND THE LINE THERE, PLEASE.
UH, I LIVE RIGHT BEHIND THE LINE.
AND WHEN THE ORIGINAL PLANS WERE APPROVED A YEAR OR TWO AGO, I LOST TRACK OF TIME.
WE'VE BEEN, MIKE AND I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED, UH, FOR, UH, SIX, SEVEN YEARS WITH THIS.
BUT, UM, THE FOLKS HERE WERE GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO WORK WITH US AND, AND LOOKING AT FROM OUR VIEWPOINTS ON THE OTHER SIDE, OUR DECK LINES ACROSS THE BACK, THEY DID, UH, PROJECTIONS OF WHAT, UH, WHAT WE WOULD SEE BASED ON X AMOUNT OF YEARS OF GROWTH ON THE, ON THE BERM.
AND, AND THAT, AND THAT'S BEEN VERY HELPFUL FOR ALL THE, ALL THE RESIDENTS, UH, ALONG THE LINE THERE.
UM, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT FOR THE NEW PLANS.
AND I GUESS A QUICK QUESTION IS, UM, THERE'S, THERE'S SHAPE DIFFERENCES.
ARE THERE ALSO HEIGHT DIFFERENCES IN E AND F UH, BRAD THAT YOU ARE PROJECTING FOR THE, ACTUALLY I DID ALL THOSE PROJECTIONS.
OH, YOU HAVE THE, THOSE PROJECTIONS.
DID HAVE YOU, DO YOU HAVE THOSE AVAILABLE? DID YOU SHOW THEM? YEAH, WHATEVER.
SO YOU REPRO PROJECTED OFF THE, THOSE, THOSE ANGULARS.
SO THE OBJECTIONS IT DID LAST TIME IT DID FOR THIS YEAH.
AND DISCUSSED IT WITH THE, THE ASSOCIATION.
SO, UM, ANY, ANY, ANY SIGNIFICANCE THERE? THEY'RE ACTUALLY, THE NEW LAWYERS ARE ACTUALLY LOWER THAN THEY'RE ACTUALLY LOW.
THAT'S, THAT'S ONE OF OUR KEY CONCERNS.
[00:30:01]
OBVIOUSLY YOU GUYS, SOMEBODY MENTIONED, UM, THE HEIGHT OF BUILDINGS AND, AND, AND, AND, AND LOOKING LIKE DOWNTOWN.BUT, UM, WE WERE OBVIOUSLY, UH, YOU KNOW, VERY MUCH CONCERNED, UM, BEING ON THAT SIDE, YOU KNOW, SEEING A LOT OF GROWTH, YOU KNOW, COMING OVER THE TOP OF OUR BUILDINGS.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE OKAY WITH WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING NOW? YEAH.
THE, THE ENF THAT YOU SEE THERE, UH, WHICH ARE THE TWO BUILDINGS THAT ARE CLOSEST TO KIND OF WEGMANS, UM, BEFORE YOU GET TO THE, THE HOTEL, UH, WE, WE PROJECTED THOSE, UH, THOSE HEIGHTS AGAINST WHAT OUR VIEWPOINTS WOULD BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT FENCE.
AND, AND THEY'VE, THEY, THEY HAD A PROJECTORY THAT WAS LIKE THIS.
WELL, IF, IF THEY'RE ACTUALLY LOWER NOW, UH, WE'LL SEE LESS OF THE BUILDINGS, UM, THE PROFILE OF THE BUILDING WILL BE LESSENED.
I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT SOMETHING, UM, THE, THE HOTEL BUILDING WAS I THINK WAS FOUR STORIES.
WHEREAS THE NEW BUILDINGS THAT WE'RE PUTTING IN, IN THAT LOCATION ARE, ARE THREE STORIES.
SO YOU'RE ACTUALLY COMING DOWN.
YEAH, MY CONCERN IS NOT THE HEIGHT.
WHAT IF YOU DON'T MIND I ASKING WHAT, WHAT 150 NEW FAMILIES LIVING IN THE COMMUNITY OF, OF ALREADY WE GOT 580, WHATEVER, BUT THEY WERE GONNA LIVE THERE.
I MEAN, THEY'RE GONNA BE THERE ANYWAY.
I DON'T THINK HOW, HOW'S THAT? WELL, I MEAN, WHETHER IT'S AN APARTMENT OR A A, UM, A HOTEL, THERE'S, IT'S STILL GONNA BE OCCUPIED.
THERE'S STILL GONNA BE PEOPLE WE USE.
YOU'RE AFFECTING THE SCHOOL, WHICH, YOU KNOW, YOU SAY IT'S MINIMAL.
I'M SURE IF SOMEBODY COMES IN, THEY GOT THREE KIDS AND THEY WANNA RENT AN APARTMENT, YOU'RE NOT GONNA SAY NO.
WELL, THAT'S BASED UPON YOUR OF OKAY.
BUT YOU'RE STILL GONNA AFFECT THE SCHOOLS TO SOME DEGREE.
AND I JUST THINK YOU'RE GONNA AFFECT THE TRAFFIC IN THE COMMUNITY MORE THAN A HOTEL.
'CAUSE I STILL BELIEVE A HOTEL, A LOT OF PEOPLE STAY AT A HOTEL BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE, THAT'S JUST WHERE THEY STOP FOR THE NIGHT.
THEY GET BACK ON 4 22 AND THEY HEAD OUT, THEY HIT TO THE TURNPIKE, THEY HEAD UP TO 81 OR WHEREVER THEY'RE HEADING.
THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT STAYING.
NOW, SOME DO I AGREE WITH YOU, SOME DO, THEY'RE HERE VISITING.
BUT EVEN IF THEY'RE VISITING RELATIVE HERE IN TOWN, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, GONNA BE REASONING ABOUT THEY'RE STAYING FOR A COUPLE DAYS AND THEY'RE GONE.
THESE PEOPLE ARE HERE EVERY DAY.
AND I, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ARGUE BACK AND FORTH IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
YOU NOT, YOU THINK THAT THAT'S LESS, UH, BURDEN ON THE COMMUNITY? I THINK IT'S MORE, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW.
IF HE SAYS IT'S NOT A BIG THING IN THE TRAFFIC PART OF IT, UH, AND THAT'S PROBABLY TRUE COMING OUT OF THIS, BUT YOU DON'T TRACK THOSE PEOPLE ONCE THEY COME OUT WHERE THEY GO.
YOU DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO THE TOWN OF ROERS FORD OR YOU DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING OVER TO RIDGE PIKE.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GOING.
Y YEAH, I MEAN THERE, THERE'S PROJECTIONS IN TERMS OF DIRECTION AND WHERE THEY GO, ET CETERA.
YOU KNOW, WHERE THAT COMPARES TO IN REAL LIFE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETIMES IT'S SPOT ON, SOMETIMES IT'S OFF.
YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY'RE PROJECTIONS ADMITTEDLY.
UM, SO WE LOOK AT THE IMPACTS AND, AND THE, THE REDUCTION, I GUESS THAT WAS DONE WITH THE COMPARISON.
WE'RE LOOKING AT THE AREAS OF IMPACT SURROUNDING THE SITE AND IN TERMS OF WHETHER OR NOT THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT THEY'RE REQUIRED TO INSTALL FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE, THE ROADWAY CHANGES.
AND THERE, THERE WERE NO CHANGES FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
SO YOU STILL NEEDED THE ROUNDABOUT, YOU KNOW, YOU STILL NEEDED THE, THE LANES AND THE OFFSITE IMPROVEMENTS.
NONE OF THAT CHANGED, BUT YOU'RE STILL REQUIRED TO DO THOSE THINGS AND, AND THEY DONE A GREAT JUMP.
SO THAT, THAT WAS OUR PERSPECTIVE.
I GUESS ON THE IMPACT THERE ARE, ARE, ARE THE IMPROVEMENTS, LIKE THE, THE ROUNDABOUT THAT WE BUILT, DOES THAT INCLUDE THE TRAFFIC VOLUMES? DOES THAT INCLUDE LIKE, FOR DOWN THE ROAD, LIKE YEAR 2030 OR 2035? YEAH, SO USUALLY FOR ROUNDABOUTS, THE PROJECTIONS 20 IS A 20 YEAR WINDOW.
SO HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU FACTOR IN A HOTEL? SOMETIMES IT'S ALMOST EMPTY, OTHER TIMES IT'S FULL AND THEN ALL POINTS IN THE MIDDLE.
HOW DO YOU WORK THAT? WELL, YOU KNOW, NOT TO GET INTO THE TECHNICAL WEEDS, I GUESS, BUT A LOT OF, A LOT OF THAT INFORMATION, WHETHER IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A COMPILATION OF HOTELS THAT ARE STUDIED.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE ITE, THE, THE TRIP GENERATION MANUAL HAS, YOU KNOW, TONS AND TONS OF DATA I GUESS THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, USE FOR HOTELS IN VARIOUS SITUATIONS, SIZES, ET CETERA.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT IS, IT'S A SUMMARY, SUMMARY OF ALL THAT DATA AND IT'S PROJECTED HERE AND LOOKED AT WITH THE LOCAL TRAFFIC AND EVERYTHING THAT'S SURROUNDING IN THE AREA.
AND THOSE PROJECTIONS ARE KIND OF TRANSLATED, KIND OF TRANSLATED THROUGH.
SO THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THEY KIND OF ACCOUNT FOR
[00:35:01]
EVENTS AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE LOOKED AT.UM, SOMETIMES THEY'RE EMPTY, SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT.
BUT THE PROJECTIONS AND THE, THE INFORMATION, THE ITE IS GENERALLY, YOU KNOW, OCCUPIED AND USED NOT, NOT EMPTY, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN AVERAGE ACROSS THE NATION.
I DUNNO IF THAT ANSWERED THE QUESTION, I GUESS, BUT NOT COMPLETELY.
YEAH, YOU, IT IS, IT'S PROBABLY THE BEST YOU CAN DO.
IT'S, IT IS HARD TO, YEAH, IT'S REALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE MANUALS SUGGEST, WHAT THEY SHOW, AND THEN YOU ALSO LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING LOCALLY AND WHAT'S AROUND.
AND, UM, YOU MAKE PROJECTIONS.
YOU TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THEY'RE GOING, WHAT THEY'RE IMPACTING, AND THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S BEING GENERATED AND MAKING SURE THAT BASED ON THAT DATA, YOU KNOW THAT THE IMPROVEMENTS ARE SUFFICIENT FROM WHAT, WHAT THE STUDY PRESENTS, YOU KNOW, SO THAT THERE'S NOT, UH, ANY DEFICIENCIES AS A RESULT OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
HOW ABOUT YOU, JEFF? NO, I JUST WANT TO THANK 'EM.
SO DURING CONSTRUCTION, THIS PROJECT'S A LITTLE UNIQUE BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PORTION THAT WAS GOING THROUGH THE ASBUILT PROCESS AS WELL AS A REVISION AT THE SAME TIME.
SO BRAD REALLY DID HIS BEST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE SATISFIED COMBINING THE TWO, MELDING THE TWO TOGETHER, GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF AN UNUSUAL SITUATION, AGAIN, WITH THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT BECAUSE THEY WERE ABLE TO MODEL WHAT THEY BUILT WITH THIS REVISED, YOU KNOW, PLAN GOING INTO IT.
SO IF YOUR CONSTRUCTION TOLERANCES ARE OFF OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
BUT WHAT THEY'VE BUILT THERE IS ADEQUATE TO HANDLE THE STORM WATER.
UM, WE'VE DONE SOME TWEAKS TO MAKE SURE THAT, UM, THEY'RE COMBINING THE RIGHT PIPE SYSTEMS. SO WITH THAT REGARD, YOU KNOW, THANK YOU FOR THE, AS-BUILTS WORKING THROUGH IT WITH US AND LOOKING AT THAT, UM, FROM A CHANGE STANDPOINT, UM, NOBODY'S TALKING ABOUT SANITARY SEWER, IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL, BUT THEY'LL BE GOING TO P-A-D-E-P TO MODIFY THEIR PLANNING MODULE.
THE FACILITIES ARE ALL ADEQUATE TO HANDLE 'EM AT THIS POINT.
IT'S A PAPER PUSHING, THEY WILL NEED TO PURCHASE SOME MORE EDS, BUT THE TOWNSHIP CONVEYANCE CAPACITY, THE PLANT FOR TREATMENT, IT'S ALL THERE FOR THEM.
SO AGAIN, IT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGE THAT THEY'LL NEED TO GO THROUGH, BUT WE DON'T ANTICIPATE ANY ISSUE WITH THAT.
AND THAT'LL BE ALL THE DEP, SO THEY'LL BE LOOKING AT IT AS WELL.
BUT, SO WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY FOR YOU, OTHER THAN SOME ADMINISTRATIVE STUFF, THERE'S REALLY NO CHANGE BETWEEN IF IT'S A HOTEL OR AN APARTMENT.
AS FAR AS, AS FAR AS STORE MANAGEMENT WATER, NO, BECAUSE IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE DOESN'T MATTER WHAT KIND OF ROOF IT'S COMING OFF OF OR PARKING LOT.
AND AS FAR AS THE SEWER, THERE IS A CHANGE IN THE FLOW AND THAT'S WHY THEY'LL NEED TO PURCHASE ADDITIONAL EDS.
IT'S NOT NOTHING THAT, IT'S NOT A BURDEN, NO MATTER A BURDEN TO THE SYSTEM THAT'S EXISTING FROM THEIR ASBUILT OR ANYTHING BETWEEN THEM AND THE TREATMENT PLAN.
TOM, IF I CAN BRING UP ONE OTHER THING FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, PART OF PLANNING IS ALSO LOOKING AT, AT THE LONG-TERM VIABILITY OF THINGS FROM THE LAND USE TO THE TAX BASE.
A HOTEL DOESN'T BRING IN THE TAX BASE THAT APARTMENTS WOULD, UM, SINCE THIS TOWNSHIP IS, IS PRIMARILY BASED ON EARNED INCOME TAX, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE RESIDENTS WILL PAY INTO THAT TAX AND WILL PAY INTO THE TOWNSHIP COFFERS MUCH MORE SO THAN ANY HOTEL RESIDENCE WHERE WE DON'T HAVE A HOTEL TAX IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
UM, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY, ANY DRIVE TO ENACT IT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
I, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A QUESTION FOR THE SUPERVISORS, BUT FROM A LONG-TERM VIABILITY FOR WHAT THIS DOES FOR THE TOWNSHIP, FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, HAVING RESIDENTS HERE, EVEN IF IT'S JUST FOR A YEAR OR SIX MONTHS, LET'S JUST SAY SIX MONTHS IS A MINIMUM LEASE, TO ME, THAT BECOMES A MORE VIABLE LAND USE, A MORE BENEFICIAL LAND USE TO THE TOWNSHIP IN TERMS OF WHAT IT KEEPS IN OUR TAX BASE.
ANY OTHER PUB PUBLIC? YEAH, YOU PICK HIM UP.
UM, ASSUMING THE PLAN GOES FORWARD, UM, DO YOU GUYS HAVE A STRAW MAN FOR THE CONSTRUCTION, UH, SCHEDULE FOR THE, THE BALANCE? IF IT WAS TO GO, YOU KNOW, ARE WE LOOKING AT TWO YEARS, FIVE YEARS? PROBABLY IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD? YEAH.
WHAT, TWO TO FIVE? TWO TO FIVE? YEAH.
YEAH, THEY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE DISRUPTION THAT THIS CAUSES FOR THE COMMUNITY IS SIGNIFICANT, EVEN FOR THAT ONE BUILDING THAT JUST BUILT.
THERE'S LESS DUST IN THE AIR, THERE'S LESS CLEANING UP, THERE'S LESS MAINTENANCE FOR EVERYBODY.
THE SOONER YOU CAN GET IT DONE, THE BETTER OFF WE ARE.
[00:40:01]
OPINION.ANYBODY ELSE IN THE COMMUNITY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS? YOU GOT NOTHING? YOU SAID YOU CAME.
BOB OR OVER? JERRY? ANYBODY ELSE YOU GUYS WANNA SAY? NO, I, UH, I DIDN'T SAY MUCH.
I'M JUST LISTENING A LOT OF GOOD, UH, COMMENTS.
UH, MY, MY OPINION, UH, I'M, I'M SENSITIVE TO, TO YOUR OPINION.
UM, I KIND OF, I, I FALL IN LINE WITH, UH, HOW JOE CHARACTERIZE SORT OF, UH, OR, YOU KNOW, OUR ROLE IN LOOKING AT THE TECHNICAL MERITS OF THIS BECAUSE IT WAS ALREADY AN APPROVED PLAN, UM, AND SORT OF THE USE DISCUSSION WITH MAYBE THE TOPIC FOR, FOR, FOR ELSEWHERE.
UM, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, I, I'M SENSITIVE TO SOME OF THE SAME ISSUES, YOU KNOW, ABOUT COMMUNITY IMPACT, BUT I ALSO FALL IN LINE, YOU KNOW, JEFF VERBALIZED A LOT OF WHAT WAS GOING ON IN MY MIND ABOUT, UH, THE TRANSITORY NATURE OF HOTEL.
AND I COME DOWN ON THE SIDE OF, I PREFER HAVING RESIDENTS, UH, YOU KNOW, OR PERMANENT RESIDENCE OR, OR, OR MORE, MORE OF A PERMANENT RESIDENT THAN, THAN A HOTEL USE.
DO YOU STAY IN HOTEL? UH, WHEN I TRAVEL
YOU'RE A GOOD GUY, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, THE COPS ARE BEING CALLED ON YOU, ARE THEY? NOT ANYMORE.
I TRAVEL, I, BUT, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, AND SO, SO, AND I APPRECIATE ANTHONY'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE TRAFFIC AND, AND SO IT SEEMS TO ME, YOU KNOW, THAT THE, THAT THE, THE PLAN STANDS ON ITS TECHNICAL MERITS.
UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S PLENTY OF DETAIL IN THE DRAWINGS.
LOOKS LIKE EVERYTHING'S WELL DOCUMENTED, YOU KNOW, THE CONSULTANTS HAVE WEIGHED IN ON IT.
UM, SO I, I DON'T HAVE THE HESITANCY THAT, THAT MAYBE YOU, UH, YOU DO.
SO I JUST, UH, YOU KNOW, I THINK, UH, UH, THE QUALITY FROM WHAT I SEE OUT THERE BEING BUILT LOOKS, LOOKS GOOD.
UM, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'VE DONE THE DUE DILIGENCE.
THIS THING'S BEEN THROUGH THE, THE MILL.
IF THAT'S GONNA BE YOUR ARGUMENT, THE TECHNICAL CAPABILITIES THAT JUST REMEMBER THAT DOWN THE ROAD, ANOTHER PLANS START COMING THROUGH TO US THAT DON'T LOOK AT THE, HOW IT AFFECTS THE COMMUNITY OR THE RESIDENTS OR THE PEOPLE.
NO, I, I THINK IT'S ALL PART, IT'S ALL PART OF WHAT WE'RE, WE'RE DOING.
I JUST WANT YOU TO, TO KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN THE OTHER PLANE START TO POUR IN.
SO I'LL TAKE BOB, ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANNA SAY? YEAH, I SAID IT.
OKAY, THEN I'LL TAKE A MOTION FROM WHOEVER WANTS TO MAKE A MOTION.
OH, SORRY, I DIDN'T HAVE A QUESTION.
WELL, YOU HAVE TO GO UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
HI, MY NAME IS KIMBERLY SHEFFEY.
I'M FROM, UH, 1 21 HOPWOOD ROAD AND THE HOTELS THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN THE TOWNSHIP.
WHAT DO YOU THINK, WHAT BUSINESSES DO YOU THINK THEY SERVE? I MEAN, THE, FROM, ARE YOU ASKING THIS A QUESTION? YES.
UH, I MEAN, FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN AND FROM WHAT I KNOW, LIKE THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES THAT ARE HERE, THEY'RE TO HOUSE THEIR GUESTS FOR, FOR PEOPLE COMING IN.
I DON'T, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION SPECIFICALLY.
I MEAN NO, NO, I WAS JUST CURIOUS.
AND, AND WOULD ADDING ANOTHER HOTEL BE BENEFICIAL TO, I MEAN, TO THEM OR, AND LOOK, I DON'T KNOW THE, THE VACANCY RATES OF THE HOTEL, OF THE APARTMENTS.
I DID ASK BRAD, I DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS ABLE TO GET THE NUMBER OR NOT, OF THE VACANCY RATE OF THE BUILDING HE HAS THAT THEY BUILT OUT THERE.
I MEAN, I, I KNOW POST PANDEMIC GRODY WAS HAVING ISSUES, BUT THAT'S POST PANDEMIC.
UM, THEY'RE PROBABLY, MOST OF THE ONES DOWN BY THE EXPO CENTER ARE DRIVEN BY THE EXPO CENTER.
WHETHER THAT'S PEOPLE COMING IN TO SHOW, I KNOW WHEN THE GUN SHOW'S IN TOWN OR THE DOG SHOWS IN TOWN, THAT THOSE HOTELS OBVIOUSLY FILL UP BECAUSE THEY'RE THE CLOSEST HOTELS.
I WOULD ASSUME THE HOTELS ON CAMPUS DRIVE HAVE SOME SPILLOVER FROM THAT.
I'M, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER ASSUMPTION IS GLAXO AND PFIZER AND, AND SEI PROBABLY HAVE SOME PEOPLE THERE.
I KNOW THAT SEI HAS SOME LONG-TERM APARTMENTS THAT THEY KEEP FOR THEIR RESIDENTS, FOR THEIR, FOR THE PEOPLE WHO TRAVEL IN FROM OUT OF STATE.
I THINK PFIZER DOES IT THE SAME.
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE THERE OR WHERE THOSE APARTMENTS MAY BE, BUT THEY KEEP EXECUTIVE SUITES.
I KNOW THEY HAVE SOME IN MADISON, BUT THEY, THEY KEEP EXECUTIVE SUITES.
SO WHEN SOMEONE COMES IN, THEY STAY THERE.
FROM A, FROM A ZONING OFFICER STANDPOINT, I HAVEN'T HAD COMPLAINTS AND I HAVEN'T HAD ANY OF THOSE LAND USES COME TO ME AND ASK, HEY, WHAT ELSE CAN I DO HERE? BECAUSE WE'RE NOT A VIABLE LAND USE ANYMORE.
WE ARE GETTING THAT WITH OFFICE BUILDINGS.
WE'RE NOT GETTING THAT WITH HOTELS.
'CAUSE I KNOW UPPER PROVIDENCE IS A, IS A BIG AREA AND YOU HAD LISTED MAYBE SEVEN HOTELS.
THERE'S ONE, TWO IN OAKS AND TWO IN, UM, OFF OF CAMPUS DRIVE.
[00:45:01]
ONLY FOUR HOTELS IN THE TOWNSHIP.IN THE TOWNSHIP NOW YOU GET OVER LIMERICK.
YOU GET DOWN TO THE LOWER PROVINCE.
THERE'S A COUPLE, THERE'S CERTAINLY HOTELS.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT, WHAT, WHAT YOUR QUESTION.
I MEAN, WOULD A, WOULD ANOTHER HOTEL BE BE BENEFICIAL TO THE OVERALL BUSINESS COMMUNITY? WELL, THREE YEARS AGO WHEN IT CAME TO US, IT WAS, YEAH, OKAY.
AND IT'S NOT A BIG HOTEL EITHER.
BUT MEAN TYPICALLY THEY'LL BE 175 TO 200.
JEFF, DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANY, ANY RECOLLECTION OF WHAT RAM WHAT THE TAX RAMIFICATIONS WERE FOR THE COMPLEX, THE TOWNSHIP? I THINK IT WAS A SURPLUS.
YOU'RE ASKING ME WHAT THE TAX RAMIFICATIONS WERE FOR THE TOWNSHIP? NO, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A LIST OF, OF IT'S, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A LIST OF WHAT EACH SPECIFIC PERSON PAYS AN EI TEAM.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A PRIVACY ISSUE.
I, I, I CERTAINLY CAN'T GET THAT.
UM, I, SO I, I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT, THINK OF THE MONEY THERE THIS GENERATES VERSUS WHAT THAT GENERATES.
WE HAVE A COLLECTIVE POOL OF EIT MONEY THAT WE GET IN A COLLECTIVE POOL OF ASSESSMENT MONEY THAT WE GET IN.
UM, YOU CAN, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE TOP 10 ASSESSED PROPERTIES AND THEREFORE YOU CAN MAKE THE CONCLUSION OF HOW MUCH THEY PAY IN REAL ESTATE TAX.
BUT THAT'S SUCH A SMALL FIGURE.
AS AN EXAMPLE I WAS LOOKING AT TODAY FOR SOMETHING ELSE, THE, UM, THE BUILDING NEXT TO GLAXOSMITHKLINE IS ASSESSED AT 16,000, $16 MILLION FOR THEIR DATA CENTER.
THEY ONLY PAY US $20,000 IN PROPERTY TAX, BUT THERE ARE SIX LARGEST PROPERTY TAX CONTRIBUTOR.
SO, YOU KNOW, IF OUR SIX LARGEST IS ONLY PAYING US $20,000 IN REAL ESTATE PROPERTY TAX, OBVIOUSLY MOST OF OUR VERY LARGE BUDGET COMES FROM EARNED INCOME TAX.
BUT DO, CAN I, I CAN'T EVEN TELL YOU, AND I'VE ASKED SEI SPECIFICALLY TO LOOK AT, TELL ME HOW MANY EMPLOYEES YOU HAVE THAT PAY INTO EARNED INCOME TAX.
THEY CAN'T EVEN GET ME THAT NUMBER.
I DON'T, I'M NOT AN ACCOUNTANT, SO I DON'T ASSUME IT'S SO DIFFICULT ABOUT IT.
BUT, AND THAT WHEN WE DID THE PROJECT, WE DID A FEASIBILITY ANALYSIS AND I REMEMBER THAT NUMBER FISCAL IMPACT WAS NUMBER WAY POSITIVE FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
IT WAS CLOSE TO EVEN FOR THE TOWNSHIP BECAUSE THEIR TAX RATE IS SO LOW.
BUT ON THE FISCAL IMPACT WITH THE EARNED INCOME TAX, UH, FROM THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE LIVING HERE WHO ARE STILL WORKING, IT WAS A BIG PLUS.
AND AGAIN, WE'RE NOT READY TO TALK ABOUT THAT 'CAUSE WE'RE HERE TONIGHT FOR LAND DEVELOPMENT, NOT FOR REZONING.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC? ANY OTHER COMMENTS HERE? NO.
WELL, IF I, IF I CAN INTERVENE.
IT LOOKS LIKE, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S HEADING TO, WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S GONNA BE A TWO TO ONE VOTE.
WELL, THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD ASSUMPTION THERE, JOE.
THE WHOLE, MY POINT BEING, UM, I KNOW WITH THE SUPERVISORS, AND I'LL ASK IF ED HAS ANY INPUT ON IT, IT HAS TO BE A VOTE OF THE MAJORITY OF THE FULL, FULL NUMBER OF FIVE TO BE AN ACTION THAT CARRIES.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE A TWO TO ONE VOTE, YOU NEED THREE OUT OF FIVE TO BE INEFFECTIVE VOTE IN ONE DIRECTION OR THE OTHER.
SO, UM, THEN WHY ARE WE HEARING THIS TONIGHT? WHEN WE DO, I MEAN WE, I ASKING BEFORE BECAUSE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A QUORUM, RIGHT? OKAY.
AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT PEOPLE'S OPINIONS WERE COMING INTO IT, BUT YOU KNOW, SO WE WERE JUST DOING BUSINESS AS USUAL.
AND I KNOW THAT IT HINGES ON THE TYPE OF MUNICIPALITY THAT YOU'RE IN, FIRST CLASS TOWNSHIP OR SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP AND SOMETIMES DIFFERENT FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
UM, YOU KNOW, IN, IN SOME PLACES IT'S A MAJORITY OF THE FULL BOARD.
AND IN SOME PLACES, AND FOR SOME ISSUES IT'S A MAJORITY OF THOSE PRESENT.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO, I I WOULD ACTUALLY LIKE TO TALK ABOUT DEFERRING THE VOTE SO WE CAN GET IT RIGHT OR ELSE NO, THAT WE HAVE ALL FIVE BACK.
OTHERWISE IT'S NOT A, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE A MEANINGFUL VOTE EITHER WAY.
I PREFER NOT TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN.
YEAH, I PREFER, ALRIGHT, WELL THEN, THEN YOU, IF YOU'RE NOT, IF YOU AS THE ONLY APPLICANT, UM, ARE SATISFIED TO HAVE IT BE A VOTE OF THE EXISTING THREE IS THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? I'M, I'M SAYING THEY SHOULD VOTE AND IT TWO TO ONE OR THREE TO OKAY.
[00:50:01]
WE'LL LIVE WITH IT.AND I, I WOULD APPRECIATE AT THIS POINT, AFTER HEARING ALL THIS AND GOING THROUGH THIS, THAT WE MAKE A VOTE.
NOW IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEND IT TO THE SUPERVISOR, THAT'S FINE.
I MEAN MY OPINION TO BE REGISTERED, I DIDN'T MEAN NOT VOTE, I MEANT POSSIBLY DEFERRED A MONTH SO THAT YOU HAD EVERYBODY HERE TO VOTE.
NO, BUT, BUT MR. BOLLIN IS SATISFIED NOT TO WAIT REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THAT'S DEC NECESSARY ANYWAY, SO WE'RE ALL RIGHT, WELL, OKAY.
BUT IF THAT, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE SAYING THAT'S A PREFERRED WAY OF DOING IT, THEN I'LL, WE'LL DEFER THE VOTE AND WE'LL DO IT AGAIN.
I'M JUST TELLING YOU WE'RE NOT GOING, HEY, I'D LIKE TO VOTE.
I THOUGHT IT WAS, I, WHEN I ASKED JEFF BEFORE, DO WE HAVE A COURT, BUT WE VOTE, HE SAYS, YES, WE'RE GOOD TO GO.
I THOUGHT IT WAS OKAY, OR I WOULDN'T EVEN START AT THIS THEN YOU'RE GOOD TO GO.
UH, THE EFFECT OF A VOTE, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE ALLOWED TO CAST IT CAN SOMETIMES BE OPEN TO QUESTION, BUT THEY ARE SATISFIED TO MOVE ON REGARDLESS.
SO BASED ON HIS INPUT, I WOULD SAY THAT TO GO AHEAD AND VOTE AND WELL, YOU TAKEN, YOU'VE TAKEN ALL THE JOY OUT OF THE VOTE NOW, DON'T YOU
I DON'T KNOW IF I WANNA VOTE ON IT.
I MEAN IT JUST, WHEN I WRITE THE RECAP, I WILL EXPLAIN THE SITUATION AND DEPENDING ON WHATEVER THE VOTE ENDS UP BEING IS WHAT IT ENDS UP BEING, I WILL EXPLAIN THE SITUATION THAT WE DID NOT HAVE A FULL BODY.
THE MEMBERS OF THAT, OF WHO'S, WHO WAS HERE VOTED.
AND THAT WILL CARRY ITS OWN WEIGHT WHETHER OR NOT IT MEETS THE TOWNSHIP, YOU KNOW, SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP CODE OR NOT IN A MANAGER'S REPORT THAT WILL CARRY ITS OWN WEIGHT WITH THE SUPERVISORS.
WELL THEN I, I'M, I'LL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, I'M UPSTATE.
I DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS EVEN A POSSIBILITY THAT WE HAD TO PUT A CAVEAT ON OUR VOTE.
IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GONNA DO, PUT A CAVEAT ON OUR VOTE THAT WE DON'T HAVE A FOR QUO, THEN I'M GONNA UPSTATE.
ALRIGHT, WELL THEN WE'LL JUST SAY THAT IT'S MOVING FORWARD TO THE, TO THE SUPERVISORS WITHOUT A RECOMMENDATION.
I DEFER, I MEAN, IT, IT IS WHAT IT IS.
I DEFER THE JOKE AND IT'S A LEGAL QUESTION AT THIS POINT.
SO, AND AS, AND AS FAR AS THE, THE ARGUMENT THAT WE'RE NOT GETTING AS MUCH TAX IN, I MEAN WE, WE COULD PUT A HOUSE ON EVERY SQUARE INCH OF THIS TOWNSHIP AND THEN WE'D GET MORE MONEY IN, BUT WELL NOW WE'RE CONFLATING THE MERIT WITH THE VOTING ISSUE.
WELL THAT'S TRUE, BUT LOOK, LOOK, LOOK, MR. HEIS, WE CAN DEBATE, BUT WE CAN DEBATE THE TAX PART OF IT.
I JUST TRY TO BRING ALL AVENUES OF IT AS A PLANNER TO YOU SO YOU UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING.
AND FIVE YEARS AGO, I CERTAINLY WAS NOT UP ON A TAX BASIS WHEN MR. YEAGER CAME ON AS A SUPERVISOR, ONE OF HIS FIRST QUESTIONS TO ME WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LAND OWNERS, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR OUR TAX BASE? SO I'VE BEEN LOOKING AT IT OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THESE THINGS MEAN.
'CAUSE I DON'T, FOR A VERY LONG TIME, I DIDN'T BELIEVE IN PLANNING VIA TAXES OR THE TAXES WAS A BASIS FOR PLANNING.
IT WAS GOOD PLANNING OR BAD PLANNING.
YOUR TAXES WERE WHERE YOUR TAXES WERE.
BUT IT REALLY DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THAT THIS IS A GOOD REPRESENTATION OF IT OR NOT.
THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF THE PLANNING QUESTION AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH EVERYTHING, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND, AND QUEST AND 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE AND OTHER THINGS, WHAT THAT MEANT FOR OUR TAX BASE AND, AND OTHER THINGS.
AND YOU GIVE IT WHATEVER VALUE YOU WANT TO, I'M STILL GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT.
SO AT THIS POINT I'LL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE DON'T NOTE ON IT BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S GONNA BE AN ASTERISK ON IT AND I'M NOT FOR THAT.
WELL, IF SO STRICTLY SPEAKING, ANY OF THE THREE OF YOU CAN MAKE A MOTION.
RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I JUST, THAT'S WHAT I'M DOING.
SO IF, IF, IF THE, SO THE, THE MOTION TO NOT MAKE A RECOMMENDATION IS, IS THE PENDING MOTION.
SO THAT WOULD BE THE ONE TO BE VOTED.
WELL, I, I, THAT I I'M SAYING THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING.
THERE'S, THERE'S A MO WE COULD PUT A MOTION OUT THERE JUST TO NOT PUT ANY RECOMMENDATION FOR I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT OUR JOB IS, BUT, BUT I DON'T WANT AN AS.
I DON'T, I WE CAN'T BRING MORE MEMBERS IN TONIGHT.
NO, I KNOW, BUT I DON'T WANT AN ASTERISK TO SAY THAT, HEY, WE DIDN'T HAVE TO PULL MEMBERSHIPS.
SO THERE'S SOME DEBATE IF IT'S A GOOD VOTE.
I DON'T LOOK, I, I THINK THE BOARD IS GOING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU, WHAT YOUR OPINION OF IT IS BASED ON WHAT YOU VOTE.
HOWEVER THAT IS, WHETHER IT'S TWO TO ONE, FIVE TO NOTHING, FOUR TO ONE, TWO, I THINK THEY'RE GONNA UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM IN YOUR WHATEVER MOTION MOVES FORWARD.
AND I HAVE NO SKIN IN THAT GAME.
WHATEVER THEY VOTE AT THE END, IT'S FINE.
I'M JUST GIVING MY OPINION, BUT I DON'T WANT TO ASK HER.
[00:55:01]
I, I REALLY DON'T THINK THERE'S A GONNA BE AN ASTERISK ON THE WELL, I THINK YOU'VE EXPLAINED IT TO ME THE WAY YOU EXPLAINED IT, IT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME IT'S GONNA BE, AND THE WAY JOE EXPLAINED IT, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A, THERE THERE COULD BE A MOTION THAT THE VOTE IS NOT LEGITIMATE BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH MEMBERS TO VOTE ON.THERE WILL NOT BE A DEBATE OVER THE LEGITIMACY OF IT BECAUSE YOU ARE A RECOMMENDING BODY.
IT IS NOT A BINDING VOTE ON THEM, NO MATTER WHAT IT MIGHT BE.
THE REAL POINT IS WHETHER THEY'RE, THAT MAKES ME FEEL BETTER.
THE REAL POINT IS WHETHER THEY'RE AWARE OF WHAT YOUR OPINION IS.
DON'T GET TOO STUCK ON WHETHER IT WAS, YOU KNOW, THREE OR THEY NEEDED THE FIVE.
THEY'RE GOING TO KNOW HOW TOM FELT ABOUT THE, UH, WHAT WAS IN FRONT OF HIM.
I MEAN, I JUST, THAT'S WHY I HAVE TO AGREE WITH JEFF.
BUT YOU'RE REALLY NOT A MATTER OF AN ASTERISK E EVERYONE'S GOING TO UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM ON IT.
I THINK WE WOULD'VE VOTE ANYHOW, REALLY BE HONEST WITH YOU.
WELL, I THINK, I THINK THEY WOULD, GIVEN THE LACK OF ANY YEAH.
THESE MEMBERS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE, UM, AS WE ALL DID.
I THINK THERE'S VALUE TO IT, AS JEFF SAID, FOR SENDING THE, OUR, OUR OPINION TO THE, TO THE BOARD, YOU KNOW, JUST THAT THEY KNOW HOW WE VOTED.
WELL, I COULD CERTAINLY MAKE THAT CLEAR TO THEM ANYTIME I WANT.
ALRIGHT, SO THERE'S A PENDING MOTION TO NOT MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
UH, I'M NOT SURE I MADE THAT KIND OF WAS TALKING OUT LOUD.
I'LL TAKE, ANYBODY ELSE WANTS TO MAKE A MOTION? I DON'T HAVE TO MAKE IT.
UH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE VOTE.
ON WHAT? OR MAKE YOU MAKE A MOTION THAT FOR RECOMMEND APPROVAL.
BOB, YOU WANT TO SECOND THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WE SEND IT TO THE SUPERVISORS WITH WHATEVER WE DO.
AND KEEP IN MIND, SECONDING, IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE GONNA VOTE THAT WAY.
ALRIGHT, SO WE GOT A MOTION AND SECOND TO VOTE TO SEND IT WITH, UH, APPROVAL OR NO APPROVAL TO THE SUPERVISORS.
UH, ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVAL TO THE SUPERVISOR, SAY AYE.
HIS MOTION WAS IT WASN'T JUST SENDING IT 'CAUSE IT ALWAYS GOES THERE.
RIGHT? HIS MOTION WAS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL, RECOMMENDING APPROVAL, WHATEVER YOU WANT.
YOU KNOW WHAT THE WORDS ARE, JEFF? WORD WORDS TWO TO ONE.
IT IT WAS A, IT WAS A ONE VOTE.
YOU KNOW, YOU PULL WHATEVER WORDS YOU WANT PUT DOWN TO THAT
I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT THE VOTE WAS.
SO, UH, SORRY, ED, WE'RE DONE.
LET'S JUST, YOU KNOW, WE LOVE YOU, ED, BUT I JUST, I JUST CAN'T SEE THIS.
I I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I KNOW YOU'RE NOT AND I APPRECIATE YOUR GENTLEMAN AND I APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR, IT IS VERY RARE THAT I GET TWO, THREE PAGE REVIEW LETTERS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL.
NO NEIGHBORS OPPOSE IT AND WE GET A TWO TO ONE AGAINST IT.
JUST, BUT, BUT I UNDERSTAND AND THAT, THAT'S WELL, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND AND I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND.
I WAS FINE WITH THE PLAN THAT WAS GOING FORWARD TO CHANGE IT AT THIS POINT.
I JUST, I'M JUST NOT, I'M JUST NOT THERE.
YOU GUYS ARE THERE, RIGHT? AM I HERE? NEIGHBORS ARE.
I THINK WE'D PREFER TO HAVE A, I MEAN, THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT HAVING A HOTEL, BUT IT MAY HAVE BEEN BETTER ACTUALLY.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
AGENDA ITEMS? YES.UM, APRIL 17TH, UH, WE WILL BE DISCUSSING THE FINAL PLAN FOR CLIMBER RESIDENTIAL.
THEY ARE 99.8% CLEAN AND I DIDN'T GET A SMIRK OUTTA JEN ON THAT, SO I'M GOING TO HOLD THAT AS TRUE.
UM, THEY'RE WORKING ON IT, WORKING DILIGENTLY.
THEY ARE WORKING DILIGENTLY, I HAVE TO SAY.
AND JUST AS A POINT OF ORDER WITH THAT, I WILL NOT BE AT THAT MEETING.
MY SON AND MY WIFE AND I ARE GOING TO NEW YORK FOR A SCHOOL TRIP.
AND SO IT'S A ONCE IN A LIFETIME THING.
AND THEN WELL, WHO'S GOING TO EXPLAIN THIS ALL TO US? JOE
I, I CONSCRIPTED JOE AND I THINK YOU ALL KNOW MATT.
YOU GIVE US THE, WELL, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL.
UM, YOU WILL HAVE MATT HERE IN THIS POSITION, RIGHT? THE POWERPOINT.
HE'S A FRAGILE, FRAGILE PERSON.
UM, MAY 1ST IS TO BE DETERMINED.
UM, WE'RE EITHER BE TALKING ABOUT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OR IF ANY OTHER PLANS GET LINED UP.
[01:00:01]
IS PROBABLY VERY CLOSE.I THINK ANTHONY JUST PUT HIS REVIEW OUT TODAY, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT.
AND JEN WILL BE OUT THIS WEEK.
SO THEY MAY BE COMING IN FOR THEIR TENTATIVE SKETCH PLAN APPROVAL THAT THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE ASKING FOR ON MAY 1ST AND THEN, UM, MAY 22ND, THE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISOR COMMITTEE IS STILL LOOKING AT HOA OUTREACH.
UM, WE'RE STILL LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT.
AND MR. HEIST, IF YOU COULD TELL, UM, OUR HOH HERE TO ACTUALLY RETURN THE EMAIL, WE'D DEPRECIATE IT.
WE'RE STILL TRYING TO MAKE IT TECHNICAL.
I, EVEN THOUGH I KNOW WHO IT IS AND I HAVE ALL HIS CONTACT INFORMATION, WE WANT HIM TO GO THROUGH THE CHANNELS.
I SAY I'VE GOT IT ON MY THINGS TO DO.
AS FAR AS THE, AS FAR AS THE EAC COUNCIL GOES, IS IT ALL, IF I ASK MR. JOE IS HE LOOKED AT OUR SINGLE PLASTIC USE PROPOSAL.
I, YOU KNOW, I, IT, IT WAS, I I GAVE IT TO YOU A WHILE AGO AND THEN IT SLIPPED OVER WINTER AND WE DIDN'T, WE HAVE, I WROTE A SINGLE PLASTIC USE SPAN ORDINANCE IN ANOTHER MUNICIPALITY THAT I MODIFIED SLIGHTLY AND SAID HERE THAT, SO I, I AM VERY WELL AWARE OF THE ISSUE.
I DIDN'T RECALL BEING MAYBE IT GOT THROUGH IN MY EMAIL.
A RECENT, WELL, NO, IT WAS PROBABLY LIKE BACK IN NOVEMBER.
IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DURING, YEAH, I PROPOSED, I PROPOSED THE BAN USING SOMEBODY ELSE'S, YOU KNOW, FULL KNOWLEDGE OF TAKING SOMEBODY ELSE'S BAN AND SAYING, JOE, COULD YOU LOOK AT THIS AND TELL US THAT THIS WILL FIT FOR OUR COMMUNITY? SOUNDS LIKE YOU'VE ALREADY DONE THAT.
MAYBE BEFORE I EVEN SENT YOU THIS ONE.
I DID DO IT BEFORE, BUT I CAN DO IT AGAIN WITH WHAT YEAH, WE'RE GONNA, AND, AND I WAS GONNA TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS ACTUALLY AS A CONSULT MEETING.
WE'RE GONNA WORK THROUGH AND HAVE SOME SORT OF COMBINATION OF, IT WAS UPPER MARION AND AMBLER, SO RIGHT.
I WROTE ARS AND, AND, UM, AND I THINK YOU GAVE ME UPPER MARION, DIDN'T YOU, TOM? YES.
WELL, I, I ACTUALLY, I THINK I GAVE YOU BOTH.
SO YES, THAT, AND WE ALSO, FROM AN E C'S PERSPECTIVE, WE WANNA GO BACK TO THE GRASS CUTTING ORDINANCE.
AND I REALIZE IT'S SPRING AND THAT'S THE, SO ALWAYS COMES BACK UP.
BUT THE GRASS CUTTING ORDINANCE, TOM
AND WE WANT TO SORT OF SEE THE, A C WANTS TO SEE IF WE CAN FIND SOME SORT OF BALANCE THERE.
MORE SO THAN JUST BRINGING IT UP WITH ONE MEETING AT THE BOARD.
SO ANY OTHER, UH, FOR THIS BOARD? ANYTHING ELSE? ANY OTHER PLANS? GOOD, BAD? ANY QUESTION? SPAR ROAD KIND OF, UH, LOVER LOVE'S LANE.
THERE, THERE'S SO MANY CURVES IN THAT ROAD.
WOULDN'T IT BE NICE IF THEY, IF WE COULD PUT A AMP WHERE IT'S GOOD FOR THE NEIGHBORS TO KNOW THAT A SUBDIVISION IS IN PROCESS.
THERE, THERE'S TWO NEIGHBORS THERE.
THERE'S, UM, UM, MRS. DOLLARS WHO LIVES TO THE NORTH OF IT.
AND MR. MALLICK, WHO LIVES THE SOUTH OF IT, WHEN I GOT THE PLAN IN, YOU GOT THE EMAIL, FIVE MINUTES LATER THEY GOT THE EMAIL.
UM, IT'S, IT, IT, IT IS ON THE TYPICAL PATH OF LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THAT IT IS, IT IS ON THE AGENDA.
I HATE, I MEAN, AS MUCH AS THAT ONE IS SOMETHING CRITICAL AND SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, I DON'T WANNA DEVIATE FROM OUR TYPICAL HOW WE NOTIFY AND HOW WE PUT THE PLANS THROUGH THE PROCESS.
'CAUSE WHEN WE DO THAT, THEN LIKE THE NEXT ONE THAT COMES ALONG GOES, WELL, NOW YOU'VE DONE X PLUS A I WANT YOU TO IT X PLUS A PLUS B.
AND IT BECOMES, WE'RE TRYING TO STICK WITH WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES.
AND WE'LL, YOU KNOW, AND AS MUCH AS I AGREE WITH YOU, THAT'S PROBABLY NOT ENOUGH ANYMORE.
THAT'S WHAT WE, WE WANT TO STICK TO.
PEOPLE CAN SEE WHAT'S, WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE TOWNSHIP.
OTHERWISE WE'RE KIND OF LIKE SNEAKING IN, SNEAKING IT IN, WHICH I DON'T THINK IS RIGHT.
PEOPLE HAVE ACTIVE LIVES, THEY DON'T ALWAYS HANG AROUND OUR MEETINGS.
WE, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS OFFLINE, BOB, BUT SHORT OF ME KNOCKING ON EVERYBODY'S DOOR, I'M NEVER GONNA BE ABLE TO GET THE COVERAGE OF GETTING PEOPLE OUT THERE TO TELL 'EM WHAT IT IS.
I MAKE IT VERY WIDELY AVAILABLE.
AND I, I THINK COMPARED TO 10 YEARS AGO, THE AMOUNT OF TRANSPARENCY AND THE AMOUNT OF PLAN AVAILABILITY THAT WE HAVE IS 150 YARDS FURTHER.
WILL IT EVER BE ENOUGH? NO, PROBABLY NOT.
THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT, THERE'S AN ISSUE.
THERE'S ALWAYS SOMEBODY WHO'S LIKE, I DIDN'T SEE IT.
BUT AGAIN, SHORT OF KNOCKING ON EVERYBODY'S DOOR TO SAY, HERE'S A PLAN, DO YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT IT? I, I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO, TO, TO GET THE WORD OUT THERE, OTHER TENSIONS TO IT.
SO HOW, WHAT DO THEY DO? THEY ACTUALLY PUT A SIGN ON ON EVERY SUBDIVISION UNTIL IT'S APPROVED, AND THEN IN TURN THEY PULL THE SIGN OFF AND USE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.
IT'S, IT'S, AGAIN, THAT'S NOTHING THIS TOWNSHIP HAS EVER DONE FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT.
AND, UM, I DON'T QUITE KNOW WHAT BENEFIT
[01:05:01]
THAT GETS BECAUSE WHERE ON LOVE'S LANE WOULD I PUT IT ON? LOVE'S LANE ON 29, DO I NEED TWO SIGNS? DO I NEED THREE SIGNS? LOOK AT PARK HOUSE.I PUT 13 SIGNS UP FOR THE KID.
NO, 18 SIGNS UP FOR THE CONDITIONAL USE.
I MEAN, IT, IT AGAIN, IT, IT SNOWBALLS.
I, I APPRECIATE THAT THAT LIMERICK PUTS UP A SIGN THAT SAYS THIS IS THE SUBJECT OF A SUBDIVISION LAND DEVELOPMENT.
RIGHT? BUT LET'S TAKE GLOVER'S LAKE FOR EXAMPLE.
WHERE DO I PUT THAT SIGN? AND I'M STILL GONNA GET THE PERSON THAT SAYS TO ME, I DIDN'T SEE THE SIGN.
THERE'S ALWAYS A PROBLEM PROVIDING MORE NOTICE THAN THE LAW REQUIRES ON ONE JOB.
AND IF YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE MPC SAYS, HERE'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO FOR PUBLIC NOTICE, UNFORTUNATELY THAT DOES NOT YET RECOGNIZE THE TOWNSHIP WEBSITE OR OTHER METHODS BECAUSE THE NEWSPAPERS ARE VERY STRONG LOBBY AND REQUIRING, DEMANDING THAT THEY STILL MAKE THAT REV REVENUE FROM RUNNING THAT THOSE TWO ADS IN THE PAPER.
AND THEN THE POSTING THAT YOU HAVE IN THE MPC WHEN YOU GO PAST THAT FOR ONE, THEN ESSENTIALLY NOW YOU HAVE TO GO PAST THAT FOR ALL.
AND THEY'VE GOT A HUGE RESOURCE DRAIN, YOU KNOW, ON THE TOWNSHIP.
SO EVERYBODY ALWAYS, YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SAFE IF YOU PROVIDE WHAT THE LAW ALLOWS.
NOW, SOMETIMES ON A CERTAIN JOB, YOU MIGHT SEE A LETTER GO OUT, MAYBE BY THE APPLICANT, EVEN TO THE PEOPLE OF ONE NEIGHBORHOOD OR WHATEVER.
BUT IT'S A REALLY TOUGH TASK TO DETERMINE JOB BY JOB.
OH, I I SHOULD ADD TO WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES BY THIS MUCH OR THIS MUCH, OR FIVE SIGNS OR 10 SIGNS.
YOU, BECAUSE YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE SOMEONE WHO SAYS THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW.
YOU HAVE A LOT OF RECORD OWNERS WHO ONLY THEY, THEY'RE USING AN ADDRESS THAT'S NOT WITH THE COUNTY, THEY'RE LIVING SOMEWHERE ELSE.
JUST THOSE PEOPLE ALONE OFTEN DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PROPERTY.
UH, LOOK, I, I AM ALWAYS ONE TO LISTEN AND TO, TO TAKE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES AND I WILL LOOK AT SOME OTHER SIGNAGE ISSUES AND SEE WHAT ELSE WE CAN DO.
I JUST, I'M VERY WARY OF PUTTING THE BILLBOARD OUT FOR EVERY, FOR EVERY LAND DEVELOPMENT THAT'S OUT THERE.
IT, IT, IT IS JUST, WELL, IT COULD BE A WASTE IN CERTAIN ONES.
AGAIN, IF I DO IT FOR ONE, I DO IT FOR EVERYBODY.
YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S TRUE TOO.
THAT I HAVE TO, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT EVEN A QUESTION.
IF I DO IT FOR ONE, I DO IT FOR EVERYBODY.
ANY OTHER FOR THE GOOD OF THE ORGANIZATION? ANTHONY? JEN, YOU GOOD? GOOD, JOE? I'M GOOD.
I'LL TAKE A MOTION WITH JERRY.
I, YEAH, I WAS, COME YOU, YOU GOTTA COME UP HERE AND MR. RO, IF YOU COULD COME UP WITH THE MIC PLEASE.
UH, SHAER RO 1 21 HOPWOOD ROAD.
UM, IT HAD TO DO WITH THE DISTURBING LETTER THAT I GOT, UH, REGARDING THE YERKES STATION, UH, ASSOCIATES.
THE LETTER YOU RECEIVED WAS A NOTIFICATION LETTER FOR THE FEMA LETTER OF MAP PROVISION.
WELL, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT OUR CONCERN IS IS I'M 60 YEARS OLD.
I FIGURE I HAVE BEEN ANOTHER 15 YEARS OF BEING ABLE TO WORK.
WHEN YOU GUYS CHANGED THE ZONING ON ALONG 29 TO, UH, HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL, WE DECIDED WE WERE GONNA PUT UP A CRAFT SHOP IN OUR LOWER, UH, MEADOW RIGHT OUT THERE ON OLD 29.
UM, AND NOTHING EXTRAVAGANT, JUST A SMALL BUILDING, UH, TO BE ABLE TO SELL CRAFTS, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT WE MAKE IN THE SHOP, UH, OR, UM, SELLING, UH, WOOD, YOU KNOW, UH, FIREPLACE WOOD, STUFF LIKE THAT.
SOMETHING THAT WOULD GENERATE ABOUT $50,000 A YEAR.
AND, UM, WE GOT SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, WE, WE KNOW WE'RE BY THE STREAM AND ALL, BUT WE GOT A LETTER FROM, UH, BIO ENGINEERING AND I HAVE COPIES THAT I MADE FOR EVERYBODY.
IF YOU GUYS WANT TO JUST SEE, WELL, I GET, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU SAY.
IF YOU WANNA GIVE US NOTE WHAT, WHAT HE'S RE LET ME EXPLAIN IT FOR THEM, PLEASE.
WHAT'S IT, WHAT HE RECEIVED WAS A REQUIRED LETTER FROM FEMA.
FEMA REQUIRED AS PART OF YY STATION LETTER OF MAP PROVISION.
THEY'VE MAPPED THE FLOODPLAIN, THE FLOODPLAIN IS ON PART OF HIS PROPERTY.
AND THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE IDENTIFYING FOR HIM OF WHERE THE FLOODPLAIN WAS ON THE PROPERTY AND WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE.
AND WHERE THAT'S WHERE IT'S IDENTIFIED NOW ON THE FEMA FLOODPLAIN MAPS IS, IS NOT AGGREGATE REPRESENTATION OF WHERE IT IS, BECAUSE THOSE MAPS ARE DONE DIFFERENTLY THAN HOW WE'VE HAD TO STUDY IT.
AND THEY'VE STUDIED IT MORE NOW, SO THEY HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE IT IS.
SO THE FLOODPLAIN IS ALREADY THERE, BUT BASED ON THE EXTENSIVE STUDY THAT BOHA HAS DONE AND THAT WE'VE HAD TO DO AS PART OF THE LETTER OF MAP PROVISION, IT'S CHANGED.
IT'S JUST LIKE ANY OTHER LETTER OF MAP PROVISION THAT WE'VE HAD TO DO.
WELL, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT HOW IT'S STATED.
IT, IT, THE WAY IT'S STATED IS, UM, PRE-CONSTRUCTION
[01:10:01]
AND POST-CONSTRUCTION AFTER THE PROJECT.SO, UH, THE, THE, WE GO FROM NOT BEING IN THE FLOODPLAIN AT ALL TO THE ENTIRE MEADOW, UH, BEING IN THE FLOODPLAIN.
UH, WE, IF YOU MIKE
UM, UM, THE, THE WAY THE LETTER'S WRITTEN, IT'S HIGHLY TECHNICAL AND I DON'T THINK IT'S PAGE GO BY.
IF YOU COULD USE THE MIC, SIR.
CAN YOU USE THE MIC PLEASE? UH, THE MIC, YES.
BASICALLY FOR US, IT COMES DOWN TO, UH, PROPERTY RIGHTS.
UM, WE, WE, IF THEY'RE GONNA PUT THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT IN, THAT'S FINE, BUT, UM, THEY SUGGEST THAT THERE'S GONNA BE A BACKFLOW BECAUSE OF THE DEVELOPMENT AND IT WILL FLOOD WHERE WE PROPOSE TO HAVE OUR LITTLE BUSINESS.
SO WE WON'T BE ABLE TO, WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE A DIFFERENT KIND OF BUSINESS OR WHATEVER, BUT IT'S GONNA BE, UH, FLOODED OUT ON A REGULAR BASIS.
SO THEY GET, UM, THEIR PROJECT DONE AT OUR EXPENSE.
SO THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME KIND OF MONETARY FEEDBACK ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
SORRY, THE, UM, THE, THE, THE LETTER OF MAP PROVISION PROCESS, THE TOWNSHIP DOESN'T INITIATE IT.
THE TOWNSHIP DOESN'T CALCULATE IT.
IT'S JUST A REQUIRED STEP FOR THE DEVELOPER TO GET THEIR PLAN THROUGH.
I'M NOT, IT'S PREMISE TO THE IDEA THAT IT'S PREMISED ON THE IDEA THAT ALL FLOAT PLANE MAPS ARE DONE AT A VERY HIGH ALTITUDE AND THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS ACCURATE.
SO ANYONE AT GROUND LEVEL ON A PARTICULAR SPACE COULD SAY, HEY, THIS ISN'T QUITE RIGHT, WHERE IN THIS AREA WE'RE ASKING YOU TO REVISE YOUR FEDERAL NATIONAL MAP WITH BETTER DATA.
WE'RE PROVIDING YOU ACTUAL SITE SPECIFIC DATA, AND THAT'S HOW THE PROCESS PLAYS OUT.
NOW, WHETHER THAT CAUSES YOU, THAT'S NOT THE MAP THAT WE GOT, THOUGH.
THE MAP WE GOT IS CURRENT AND PROPOSED.
SO, UM, I'M ASSUMING THAT IF THE CURRENT IS YOU'RE TELLING ME IS NOT ACCURATE, THE, THE DEVELOPER IS SAYING THAT IT IS NOT ACCURATE AND THEY ARE SEEKING TO DETERMINE ITS ACTUAL BOUNDARIES THROUGH SITE SPECIFIC LOCAL DATA.
BUT THAT'S, LET FINISH THE LETTER, SIR, IF I COULD FINISH MY THOUGHT THOUGH.
IT, IT IS WHATEVER YOU'RE, YOU'RE BRINGING UP THIS ISSUE OF BEING ENTITLED TO COMPENSATION THAT WOULDN'T BE HERE AND IT WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE TOWNSHIP.
WELL, I, NO, NO, I'M NOT HOLDING THE TOWN TOWNSHIP RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS.
I JUST WANT THE TOWNSHIP TO BE AWARE OF IT BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE GIVING FINAL APPROVAL FOR THEM TO MAKE THE CHANGES THAT WILL CAUSE OUR PROPERTY TO FLOOD.
WELL, I'M NOT, I'M CERTAINLY NOT INSENSITIVE TO HARM YOUR PROPERTY.
I'M A RESIDENT OF THE TOWNSHIP TOO.
BUT WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT WHAT IT DOES COME IN FRONT OF THE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THE, THE MAP, THE MAP PROVISION LETTER IS A, A DONE ISSUE THAT HAPPENS OVER HERE WITH, AT A THIRD PARTY AGENCY LEVEL THAT DOESN'T INVOLVE THE TOWNSHIP.
THEN WE COME IN AND WE SAY, WELL, WHERE ARE YOU WITH RESPECT TO FLOODPLAIN? AND THEY SAY, WELL, WE HAVE OUR NEW MAP.
HERE'S WHAT WE ARE NOW OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDARIES OF THE FLOODPLAIN.
SO FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE TOWNSHIP'S ACTIONS, THAT'S WHAT WILL UNFOLD.
IF THERE'S A SECONDARY EFFECT ON THEIR, ON THE ACCURACY OF THE MAP, THAT'S NOT FOR THE PLANNING.
OH, I I THOUGHT THAT YOU GUYS WOULDN'T GIVE, UH, FINAL APPROVAL IF YOU KNEW THAT THERE WAS GONNA BE ANCILLARY.
WELL, IF THERE'S A CHALLENGE TO THE ACCURACY OF THE MAP, I MEAN, THAT'S, YOU NOW HAVE THE LETTER, I CAN'T GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE ON HOW TO CHALLENGE THE MAP CALCULATIONS, BUT THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING YOU WOULD WANT TO PURSUE EITHER WITH THE APPLICANT OR, YOU KNOW, ON YOUR OWN, THROUGH A SEPARATE ENGINEER OR, OR, OR LEGAL COUNSEL TO TELL YOU HOW YOU CAN PROVIDE YOUR DATA IF YOU HAVE CONTRARY DATA.
WELL, NO, I, I'M GOING, I'M, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T AGREE WITH THEIR DATA, I'M GOING WITH THEIR DATA, THEIR DATA SHOWS THAT CURRENTLY WE'RE NOT IN THE FLOODPLAIN AFTER THE PROPOSED CHANGES, WE WILL BE COMPLETELY IN THE FLOODPLAIN.
SO I'M, I'M JUST USING THEIR, I'M JUST USING THEIR INFORMATION THAT THEY SENT TO US.
YOU THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE IT UP WITH THE DEVELOPER THEN? WELL, IT, ON THE LETTER THAT WE RECEIVED THAT SAYS WE SHOULD, UH, CONTACT YOU IF WE HAD ANY PROBLEMS. YEAH, THIS IS THE FIRST I'M HEARING FROM YOU.
I'M HAPPY TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU AND GO THROUGH THE LETTER WITH YOU.
WE GOT THIS LETTER IN THE MAIL AFTER A NO NO AFTER, AND SOMEBODY HAD TORN IT OFF AND WHATEVER.
[01:15:01]
SO WE'RE JUST FINE.HAPPY TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT AT ANY POINT IN TIME AND PULL OUT THE MAPS AND LOOK AT THEM.
UM, I'M NOT SURE I, I'M KIND OF QUESTIONING THIS MAP NOW BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SHOW AN EXISTING FLOODPLAIN LINE FOR WHERE THE CREEK IS.
YEAH, IT SAYS ON YOUR PROPERTY IT, IT SAYS IT'S THE GREEN ONE.
YES, BUT IT DOESN'T SHOW ANY GREEN ON, ON THE PROPERTY AT ALL.
ACTUALLY, I, I THINK WHAT IT DOES IS, I THINK THE GREEN IS UNDER THE RED, THE GREEN LINE, THE EXISTING GREEN LINE IS UNDERNEATH THE RED LINE.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE VERY END OF IT.
HERE, LET ME, LET ME SHOW YOU HERE.
YEAH, I WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO COME IN HERE OR NO, I'M GONNA TRY TO SHOW YOU UP HERE.
IF YOU LOOK AT THIS AREA RIGHT HERE, SEE WHERE THE CROSS IS, UH, I KNOW IT'S VERY HARD TO STATE.
LET ME HOLD ON NOW WE'RE GONNA START MAKING, YEAH, I CAN'T, I CAN'T MAKE THAT OUT.
CAN I GO OVER THERE? YEAH, THAT'S FINE.
IF YOU LOOK AT THIS AREA RIGHT HERE, DO YOU SEE HOW THE GREEN LINE COMES OUT FROM UNDERNEATH THE RED LINE? AT THE VERY END OF THE RED LINES? THERE'S GREEN LINES.
I SEE WHAT YOU'RE POINTING AT.
THERE, THERE'S GREEN LINES UNDERNEATH THE RED LINES.
I THINK THAT MEANS THAT THOSE LINES ARE COINCIDENTAL WITH I SEE THE CURRENT FLOOD PLAIN LINE SO THAT THEY DON'T CHANGE, RIGHT? THEY HAVE NO, THEY'RE NOT CHANGING.
UM, SHOULDN'T THEY BE CONTINUOUS? HERE ARE THE GREEN HERE ARE GREEN.
THEY GO ALL THE WAY UP WHERE THE RED LINE AND THE GREEN LINE DON'T MEET.
THAT'S WHERE IT'S CHANGING ON YOUR PROPERTY.
THE RED LINE AND THE GREEN LINE ARE THE SAME.
IS SEE PROPERTY THAT LITTLE BLUE, IT'S WHERE THE, IT IS THE SMALL, IT'S, IT'S THE GRAY AREA ON THAT LAND THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT.
OR AT LEAST I DON'T, I SEE WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE WITH THE GREEN LINE, WITH THE GREEN LINE HOOK BACK UP THE GREEN LINE OVER HERE.
I, I, I THINK, I THINK THE GREEN LINE AND THE RED LINE ARE COINCIDENTAL THROUGH YOUR PROPERTY.
THEY, THERE'S NO CHANGE TO THEM WHERE YOU SEE THE GREEN LINE AND THE RED LINE IS SEPARATE LINES.
THAT'S WHERE THERE'S A CHANGE TO THE FLOOD PLAIN.
I'M GONNA, I GUESS WE CAN GET CLARIFICATION ON THAT FROM I'M FINE WITH THAT.
I GUESS WE CAN GET CLARIFICATION.
I CAN CERTAINLY HAVE THE ENGINEER REACH OUT TO YOU AND GIVE YOU CLARIFICATION.
I CAN HAVE, I CAN HAVE THE GENTLEMAN WHO SEND YOU THE LETTER REACH OUT TO YOU SPECIFICALLY AND GIVE YOU CLARIFICATION ON THAT.
I, THAT THAT'S, AND, AND EVEN ALL OF THIS BEING SAID, RIGHT, THERE IS AN AVENUE FOR YOU TO PUT WHAT YOU WANT TO ON THIS PROPERTY.
WE CAN GO THROUGH THAT AS WELL.
OBVIOUSLY THIS IS THE FIRST I'M HEARING ABOUT THE BOUTIQUE CRAFT STORE OR WHATEVER YOU CALL IT.
THERE IS AN AVENUE TO WHERE WE CAN MAYBE MAKE THAT WORK.
THERE'S SOME LEGAL HURDLES AND THERE'S SOME ZONING, HEARING BOARD RELIEF YOU MIGHT NEED, BUT IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
SO, OKAY, WE CAN GO THAT WE CAN MODIFY THE, UH, TYPE OF BUSINESS WE HAVE ON THERE.
WE COULD JUST DO A STRICTLY, UH, LANDSCAPE, UH, PRODUCT.
WELL, LET'S, LET'S, LET'S NOT LOCK OURSELVES INTO ANYTHING RIGHT NOW.
SO WHY DON'T YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND THEN WE WILL, WHEN YOU LOCK IN WHAT EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANNA DO, SHOOT FOR THE MOON, AS I TELL EVERYBODY, SHOOT FOR THE MOON, AND THEN WE WILL TELL YOU WHERE THE PARAMETERS ARE AND YOU CAN DIAL BACK IF YOU NEED TO.
SO, UM, WE SHOULD, THERE WOULD BE NO MORE BACKUP FROM THE, THERE SHOULDN'T, THERE, THERE CHANGED ALL I READING THIS, RIGHT? THAT THE RED AND THE GREEN LINES ARE DOWN.
I MAKE A REALLY HARD TIME TELLING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE GREEN LINE AND THE CYAN LINE.
I THINK WE JUST NEED TO CLARIFY.
I THINK, I THINK WE CAN CLARIFY FOR YOU.
I WILL EITHER HAVE JEN OR, OR, OR, UM, UM, RUS FROM FROM B REACH OUT TO YOU.
THEY UNDERSTAND THAT BETTER THAN I DO AND I'M, I'M NOT PASSING IT OFF.
HAVE YOU TALKED ABOUT NO, I APPRECIATE IT.
I RATHER, I'M ASSUMING THAT THIS STUDY THAT IS HERE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INCREASED FLOW FROM THE, UH, HOPWOOD STATE PROJECT.
THIS IS ALL PART OF SCHU AND, AND, UM, NOT SKU.
UM, THE PERO AND, AND TIN, NOT TIN RUN.
WHAT'S THE WATERSHED? NOT THE WATERSHED.
THEY, THE, THIS STUDY HAS ONLY TO DO WITH TENDY RUN AND THE PERMA CREEK.
SO, UH, THERE HAS BEEN AN OVERALL, THERE HAS BEEN, BUT NO, THAT THERE'S NO CHANGE TO, THERE'S NO CHANGE.
DO YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THAT'S A LITTLE, I'M NOT SURE.
WELL, THERE'S ALSO MORE STORMWATER CONTROL NOW.
[01:20:01]
THERE'S MORE.MORE WHAT? MORE STORMWATER CONTROL NOW OR TWO WHERE THERE'S NONE CURRENTLY.
WELL, EXCEPT FOR THE NATURAL TREES AND THE FOLIAGE AND THE GRASS.
AND HAVE WE ADDRESS, I THINK WE'VE ADDRESSED THE, LIKE I SAID, ISSUE AND NOW WE'RE KIND OF FRACTURING.
YOU, YOU'VE ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS AND I WILL GET IN CONTACT WITH YOU.
WOULD YOU LIKE THIS OFFER OR NO? I'LL TAKE OF THAT.
I'M SORRY WE HAVE THIS EXCUSE IN THAT GAME.
SO, UH, UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? SO I'LL TAKE THAT MOTION TO GET THE ADJOURN.
I'LL MAKE THE MOTION TO ADJOURN THE MEETING.