[00:00:01]
WORKING ON THE, THE OLD BUILDING.[CALL TO ORDER / AGENDA APPROVAL]
LIKE TO CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER OF THE UPPER PROVIDENCE CANCER PLANNING COMMISSION.UM, EVERYBODY HAS AN AGENDA, AND UH, THE FIRST ITEM ON HERE IS THE PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT ARE NOT ON THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT.
ANY, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS? OKAY.
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON FEBRUARY 21, 2024]
WE'LL MOVE ON.THERE'S REALLY ONE MAIN THING ON TONIGHT, AND THAT IS THE HEFNER ROAD SUBDIVISION.
AND YOU'RE HERE TO REPRESENT THAT.
CARL WIENER REPRESENTING, UH, ROSA CARRADO.
UH, WITH ME HERE TONIGHT IS, UH, MICHAEL ELLI FROM STA ENGINEERING, AND ROSA CORRADO IS HERE HERSELF.
UM, THIS IS A TWO LOT SUBDIVISION.
UM, MY CLIENT ACTUALLY LIVES AN EXISTING HOUSE ON HANER ROAD.
SHE'S SUB BODY CREATING A SECOND LOT HOPES TO BUILD A SECOND HOUSE, UH, ACTUALLY FOR HER SISTER.
UM, THE EXISTING HOUSE HAS, UH, A, A PRIVATE SEPTIC SYSTEM.
THE, THE HOUSE THAT IS PROPOSED WILL BE THE SAME WITH THE PRIVATE SEPTIC SYSTEM.
THE LOTS, UM, COMPLY IN ALL RESPECTS IN ALL DIMENSIONS WITH REQUIREMENTS UNDER THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, WE HAVE THE REVIEW LETTERS FROM, UH, SGA ENGINEERING, UH, I'M SORRY, FROM GILMORE.
UM, UH, UH, DATED FEBRUARY 29TH.
FEBRUARY 2ND, SORRY, FEBRUARY 2ND RESPONSE LETTER HERE.
UM, ALL THE ITEMS IN THERE ARE EITHER, UH, HAVE WE HAVE COMPLIED WITH OR WILL COMPLY WITH.
UM, THE ONLY ITEM, UH, THAT WE SEIZE IS THAT THERE IS A MENTION OF A SANITARY SEWER FORCE MAIN, UH, WHICH GOES THROUGH, UH, THE, THE SECOND LOT, WHICH, UH, I THINK, YEAH.
SO THE NEXT PAGE I THINK, UH, I DON'T HAVE THAT.
IT'S THE, THE SWITCHES ON THE SIDE OTHER SIDE.
IF NOT, I'LL, I'LL HAVE MY OWN.
SO THIS, THIS AREA BACK HERE IS, UH, A 15% STEEP SLOPE AREA.
THERE IS, BECAUSE THE, UH, SEPTIC SYSTEM WILL BE BACK HERE, THERE IS A SINGLE ONE AND A HALF INCH SANITARY SEWER LINE THAT WILL GO UNDERGROUND IN THE STEEP SLOPE AREA AND WILL BE, YOU KNOW, THE STEEPS WILL BE INSTALLED AND THE STEEP SLOPES WILL BE RESTORED.
SO THERE IS A TECHNICAL PROVISION OF THE ORDINANCE ABOUT, UH, HAVING UTILITY IN STEEP SOAP AREAS REQUIRES A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT KIND OF RISES TO THAT LEVEL OF REQUIRING US TO GO TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
WE WILL, WE NEED TO, BUT IT JUST SEEMS A LITTLE BIT OVERKILL FOR A SINGLE SANITARY SEWER LINE.
IF IT'S COMPLETELY RESTORED, HOW, HOW LONG WOULD IT BE, UH, OPEN? I WOULD SAY NOT MORE THAN A DAY.
TO ME, I DON'T, I MEAN, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK IT, YOU'RE NOT GONNA NEED A HEAVY EQUIPMENT TO PUT A INCH AND A HALF FORCEMENT IN, IN THE GROUND.
YOU CAN BASICALLY DO WITH A DITCH WITCH.
WELL, JEN AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS AND, AND MEAN, WE WERE JUST READING THE ORDINANCE FOR WHAT IT SAID.
I REALIZE THAT THERE COULD BE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF INTERPRETATION.
I'M, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
IF, IF JEN IS COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
I DON'T WANNA PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH AN INCH AND A HALF.
IT IS A MINIMAL SORT OF THING.
I UNDERSTAND IF GILMORE'S WILLING TO WITHDRAW THE COMMENT.
I, I THINK THAT'S, I'M COMFORTABLE NOT ENFORCING IT FROM A ZONING OFFICER STANDPOINT.
I MEAN, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T WAIVE THE ZONING ORDINANCE, BUT THIS IS, DOES IT EVEN COME WITHIN THE SCOPE OF IT IN THE FIRST PLACE BY BEING OPEN FOR ONE DAY AND RESTORED TO ITS ORIGINAL SLOPE? YOU KNOW, SO, I, I AGREE.
UM, WE ALSO HAVE THE, UH, BONE REVIEW REVIEW LETTER DATED FEBRUARY 1ST.
AGAIN, IT'S ALL WILL COMPRISE.
UM, AND WITH RESPECT TO BOTH OF THOSE LETTERS, THERE ARE THREE WAIVER REQUESTS, UH, THAT WE ARE MAKING.
UM, ONE, MAKE SURE I HAVE THE RIGHT THING IS FOR THE, UH, ROAD WIDENING ALONG HAFNER ROAD.
UH, IT IS CURRENTLY AN 18 FOOT WIDE PARTWAY.
TECHNICALLY THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES 32 FEET.
UM, THAT WIDTH DOESN'T EXIST ANYWHERE
[00:05:01]
ALONG HAFNER ROAD EXCEPT FURTHER DOWN WHERE THE COUNTRY DRIVE SUBDIVISION COMES IN.THERE IS A SHORT STRETCH THAT WAS WIDENED TO 26 FEET.
UH, THAT IS THE ONLY PLACE WHERE THE, IT IS ACTUALLY WIDER THAN 18 FEET.
UH, THE SECOND WAIVER KIND OF RELATED ISSUE IS SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
UH, AGAIN, THERE IS NO SIDEWALK UP OR DOWN HALF A ROAD EXCEPT FOR A VERY SHORT STRETCH WHERE THE COUNTRY DRIVE, UH, SUBDIVISION COMES IN AND COUNTRY DRIVE ROAD.
AND THIRD IS THE CURVING, UH, WHICH AGAIN, THERE IS NO CURVING ALONG HAPNER, UH, ROAD EXCEPT IN FRONT OF THAT COUNTRY DRIVE SUBDIVISION.
SO, UH, GIVEN THE, THE LIMITED SCOPE OF THIS SUBDIVISION, UH, WE BEGIN, WE WOULD ASK FOR WAIVERS FOR THOSE THREE ITEMS. THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD TO THAT IS, UM, SINCE I LIVE IN RUN DOWN HALF A ROAD VERY FREQUENTLY, THE FACT THAT THERE ISN'T A LIGHTNING OF THE ROAD OR CURBS OR SIDEWALKS CAUSES A LOT OF HAZARDS, SAFETY CONCERNS, AND EVERYONE WHO USES THAT ROAD, UM, IT, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR ALL THE PEOPLE I USE IT.
SO I WOULD LOOK FOR AN OPPORTUNITY, ESPECIALLY ON THAT ROAD, ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE DEVELOPMENT.
'CAUSE I KNOW WE HAVE ANOTHER PROJECT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF HAFNER LOOKING FOR SUBDIVISION IN THE FUTURE JUST OVER THE HILL.
SO IF THERE'S GONNA BE MORE DEVELOPMENT, UM, I HATE TO SEE THAT ROAD HAVE TO HAVE TO BE WIDENED LATER ON BECAUSE OF ADDITIONAL GROWTH IN AREA.
WELL, THEY WILL STILL HAVE TO OFFER THE DEDICATION FOR RIGHT OF WAY.
SO IF WE HAVE TO COME AND, UM, WIDEN THE ROAD IN THE FUTURE THE RIGHT WAY, IS THERE? CORRECT.
UM, AND ALSO BECAUSE OF THIS, THERE'S A FEE IN LIEU OF, SO THEY PAY A PERCENTAGE OF WHAT THEY WOULD PAY TO WIDE IT ANYWAY.
SO ESSENTIALLY THEY'RE PAY FOR THE WIDENING WITHOUT ACTUALLY DOING IT.
SO THEY DON'T HAVE ONE WIDENED SECTION AND ONE NARROW SECTION FOR THAT WAIVER.
AGAIN, YOUR CHOICE IF YOU WANT TO VOTE YES OR NO TO IT, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S THE MECHANISM WE HAVE IN PLACE FOR IF
ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? ONE OTHER QUESTION.
UM, ANY CONCERNS WITH THE, UH, THE PROPOSED, UH, NEW LOT ENTRYWAY AND THE TEMPORARY CONSTRUCTION ENTRANCE? SPECIFICALLY? ITS PROXIMITY TO THAT VERY STEEP HILL ON H ROAD AND THE TRAFFIC THAT HAS A BLIND SPOT? GO AHEAD.
IS THERE, WHAT THE QUESTION WAS THE SAFETY VALUE OF PULLING THE CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT INTO THE NEW LOT? UH, I'M SORRY, YOU REALLY HAD TALK AT THE MIC AND THE PICK IT UP.
YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY ISSUE WITH THE CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT PULLING IN? YEAH, THE, THE LOCATION OF THE TEMPORARY ENTRANCE, SO AS YOU'RE DOING CONSTRUCTION AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THE ULTIMATE PLACEMENT OF THE ACCESS TO THAT SECOND LOT, IT'S VERY CLOSE TO THIS STEEP HILL THERE IN HAFNER.
VERY DIFFICULT WITH TRAFFIC COMING OVER AT HIGH SPEEDS, WHICH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO CONTROL THAT.
UM, ANY CONCERNS WITH THAT? ANY ADDITIONAL SAFETY PARAMETERS? NO, IT, IT ACTUALLY, IT MET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE SAFETY AND THE LIKE DISTANCE AND SO FORTH.
FOR THE SPEED OF THE ROAD AND SO FORTH.
THAT WAS, I WAS SPEAKING MORE PRAGMATICALLY TO THE, THE ACTUAL SPEEDS TRAVEL ON THE ROAD, NOT THANKS.
SO WE WOULD ASK FOR, UH, WE CAN FOR A RECOMMENDATION, UH, THINK FOR PRELIMINARY FINAL APPROVAL SUBJECT TO THE REVIEW LETTERS AND COMPLIANCE WITH THOSE, AND A RECOMMENDATION ON THE WAIVERS, UH, THAT WE HAVE REQUESTED.
I GOT A COUPLE QUESTIONS BEFORE WE GET THAT.
UM, I WAS OUT THERE AND LOOKED AT IT AND I COULD HAVE SWORN THAT IT WAS AN 18 OR 24 INCH CONCRETE PIPE THAT GOES UNDERNEATH THE ROAD.
AND YET IT SAYS ON THE DRAWINGS THAT WE HAVE THAT IT'S AN IRON PIPE AND IT'S 15 INCH.
I DIDN'T TAKE A RULE OR TO IT.
I COULD BE OFF, BUT I CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CONCRETE PIPE AND METAL PIPE.
ARE YOU, ARE, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT UNDER THE CURRENT DRIVEWAY OR THE PIPE THAT GOES ACROSS THE ROAD FROM THE SPRINGHOUSE? FROM THE SPRINGHOUSE? YEAH.
YEAH, I THINK THERE'S, UM, I THINK THERE'S KIND OF SECTIONS OF THE PIPE THAT AREN'T CONSISTENT ALL THE WAY THROUGH.
SO MAYBE BECAUSE I WAS DOWN THERE ALSO AND IT LOOKED LIKE ONE END OF THE PIPE WAS LIKE CONCRETE AND THE OTHER END WAS CORGI METAL OR WHATEVER.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF SOMEBODY ATTACHED A, A SLEEVE ON THE END OF IT TO EXTEND IT A LITTLE BIT.
YOU KNOW, I COULDN'T, I COULDN'T ANSWER THAT.
THAT'S ACTUALLY, UM, THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT THAT, THAT DOESN'T FRONT OUR PROPERTY.
[00:10:01]
ACTUALLY AWAY FROM OUR PROPERTY LINE.UM, HOW ABOUT TREES? YOU, YOU'RE GONNA LEAVE MOST OF THE TREES THERE? UH, YES.
THE NEW HOUSE THAT IS BEING PLACED IS, UM, ACTUALLY THE, THE WOOD LINE IS OVER TOWARDS WHERE THE, THE, THE FROM WHERE THE WATER FROM THE, THE SPRING HOUSE RUNS DOWN.
SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE, IF YOU GO PAGE NUMBER THREE, THAT THE EXISTING WOOD LINE WOULD NOT BE DISTURBED.
UM, IT'S KIND OF HARD TO SEE THERE 'CAUSE IT'S LIKE A GRAY SCALE.
UM, AND WOULD THAT INCLUDE ALSO WHERE YOU'RE GOING UP WITH A DITCH WITCH TO NO, THE, THE SEWER IS, THE SEWER LINE IS HERE AND THE EDGE OF THE WOODS, THE EXISTING EDGE OF THE WOODS IS HERE.
AND WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY ENCROACHMENT ON THE EXISTING WOODS.
I GUESS I COULD HAVE USED THE POINTER
IS THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE WE UH, MOVE ON? UH, I HAVE ONE, UM, JUST GETTING BACK TO THE, TO THE FOREST BANK.
UM, SO YOU ARE GOING UPHILL RIGHT TO THE, TO THE, THE SEA BEACH BED? UH, CORRECT.
WHERE'S THE PUMP LOCATED? WE'LL BE IN THE HOUSE OR IS IT IN THE, IN THE FIELD? THE, THE PUMP FOR THE FORCE MAIN.
IT'S ACTUALLY, I BELIEVE IT'S, I THINK IT WAS THE, THE SEPTIC PLANT THAT SHOWED IT LIKE, I THINK 15 OR 10 FEET BEHIND THE BACK OF THE BUILDING.
OH YEAH, I, I, I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T SEE IT.
DO YOU KNOW WHO PAGE THAT IS? I CAN PULL IT UP.
UM, I DON'T HAVE THE ACTUAL APPROVED SEPTIC DRAWINGS AT THIS TIME.
THE ONLY OTHER THING, UH, JUST WONDERING, UH, AGAIN, SINCE YOU'RE GOING GOING UPHILL, IT'S A FORCE MAIN, I GET IT.
UM, DO YOU HAVE AN IDEA HOW DEEP IT HAS TO BE? WELL, TECHNICALLY YOU LIKE TO BE THREE AND A HALF FEET BELOW THE GROUND, OF COURSE FOR A FROST FACTOR.
SO, AND YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE GRAVITY OR ANYTHING.
SO I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, FOUR FEET MAX.
YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT IT TOO DEEP.
I I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT THE STEEP SLOPE TOPIC AND THE AMOUNT OF DISTURBANCE AND, YOU KNOW, THE TRENCH THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO AND JUST WANT TO GET A SENSE OF THAT ACTUALLY.
UM, WHAT THEY PUT 'EM IN WITH NOWADAYS IS BASICALLY A DITCH WITCH.
LIKE DID YOU EVER SEE ANYBODY PUT CABLE IN THE GROUND WITH THE RUBBER TIRE DITCH WITCH? IT DOESN'T, IT REALLY DOESN'T DISTURB A LOT AT ALL.
IF NOT, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION THAT WE MAKE FOR THIS.
THAT WOULD BE A MOTION RECOMMENDING PRELIMINARY AND FINAL APPROVAL SUBJECT TO COMPLIANCE WITH THE REVIEW LETTERS AND ALSO RECOMMENDING THE REQUESTED WAIVERS SO THAT NOW KNOW SOMEBODY CAN JUST SAY, UH, THE MOTION THAT JOE SAID MAKES IT A LITTLE EASIER TO GET THAT MOTION MOVING.
THEY'RE ALSO GONNA PURSUE A PERMIT FOR THE SEWER RIGHT IN THE BACK.
UH, WHAT ABOUT EXCEPTIONS OR, OR ARE YOU WILLING TO ACCEPT THE, UH, SIDE? NO SIDEWALL, NO CURVY AND NO
THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH OTHER PROJECTS OF, OF THIS TYPE WHERE WE WOULD JUST NEGOTIATE A FEE FOR WAIVERS FOR, TO USE ELSEWHERE IN THE TOWNSHIP FOR THE, IT'S KIND OF UNIQUE THOUGH THAT THE, THE STEEPNESS OF THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY COMPARED TO SOME THAT WE'VE SEEN.
YOU CAN EITHER, THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
THERE'S A MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE PLAN, BUT THAT DOES REQUIRE, AND THAT REQUIRES COMPLIANCE WITH THE REVIEW LETTERS.
IF YOU ARE OF A DIFFERENT MIND WITH RESPECT TO THE, UH, REQUESTED WAIVERS.
JUST SPLIT THAT OUT, DO IT AS A SEPARATE, DO THAT AS A SEPARATE VOTE.
SINCE I DON'T HEAR ANY COMMENTS, UM, WHY DON'T WE JUST APPROVE THE PLAN AND THEN COME BACK AND ADDRESS THE SIDEWALK AND STREET WIDENING IF, IF THAT SUIT YOU FANCY, JOE, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO, UH, PASS THE PLAN.
I'LL MAKE PRESENTATION FOR IT TO BE MOVE THE SUPERVISORS FOR PLAN.
YOU SAID PRELIMINARY AND FINAL? YEAH, BECAUSE IT'S MINOR, WE CAN DO IT TOGETHER.
ALL THOSE, THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY NAYS? OKAY, NOW THIS THE WIDENING
[00:15:01]
OF THE STREET SIDEWALKS AND CURBING.DO WE NEED ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON THIS BEFORE WE RUN IT TO A VOTE? OKAY, I HEAR NONE.
SO
DOES THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS REQUIRE A RECOMMENDATION FROM US FOR THAT? YOU, YOU, YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT LEGALLY REQUIRED TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON ANY OF IT.
SOMETHING TIMES THINGS GO UP WITHOUT A, A RECOMME SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATION.
SO IN TALKING TO SUPERVISORS, LET ME SAY ONE STEP FURTHER THAN THAT, UM, THEY LIKE TO HEAR FROM US BECAUSE IT GIVES THEM SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT AND, AND TO KNOW THAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE LOOKED AT IT AND MAYBE A LITTLE CLOSER.
'CAUSE THEY HAVE A LOT OF OTHER BUSINESS ON THEIR AGENDA, NOT JUST SUBDIVISION.
SO DO I HEAR A MOTION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER? IT COULD BE A MOTION TO, TO RECOMMEND THE WAIVERS OR THERE COULD BE A MOTION TO NOT RECOMMEND THE WAIVERS.
AND IF THERE'S NO MOTION EITHER WAY, THEN IT WOULD GO UP WITHOUT ANY RECOMMENDATION.
ANY COMMENTS IF NOT? WELL, I, I JUST FEEL IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ABOUT THIS PROJECT.
I FEEL, UM, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MAYBE HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT HAFFNER ROAD SPECIFICALLY.
SO I'LL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO NOT APPROVE THE WAIVERS.
I CAN, IF I CAN PUT IT OUT THERE, I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN, BUT THIS IS A RESIDENCE, THIS IS NOT A DEVELOPER SITUATION CREATING A SIGNIFICANT SUBDIVISION.
THIS IS A RESIDENT SUBDIVIDING HER OWN PROPERTY, UM, SELLING IT REALLY TO HER OWN FAMILY.
AND, UH, IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE AN EXCEPTION, IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THE TYPE OF CIRCUMSTANCE IN WHICH YOU MAKE THE EXCEPTION TO A WAIVER.
UM, YOU COULDN'T PHYSICALLY WIDEN THE ROAD IN THIS AREA.
I MEAN, YOU, YOU CAN, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO REALLY HAVE SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON TRAFFIC.
YOU HAVE THE EXISTING HOUSE THERE, YOU'RE JUST PUTTING IN A SECOND HOUSE.
UM, THE SAME THING HONESTLY, WITH CURBING AND THE SAME THING WITH SIDEWALK.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, UH, IT DOESN'T REALLY, WELL, THERE MAY BE A BROADER CONCERN ABOUT HALF THE ROAD AND WHAT MAY HAPPEN THERE.
THIS DOESN'T SEEM TO BE THE PROJECT TO ADDRESS THAT ON.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S BEEN A SECOND.
I ACTUALLY TECHNICALLY DON'T THINK WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE DISCUSSION YET, BUT, OKAY.
UM, DO I HEAR ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD? IS THERE A SECOND? THERE? A SECOND.
SO IS THERE ANY MOTION THE OTHER WAY BY ANYBODY? I THINK IT WAS QUITE THE LAST, YEAH.
SO WE'LL, WE'LL SCOPE WITHOUT A RECOMMENDATION ON THE WAIVERS.
A RECOMMENDATION JUST TO THE BOARD IS, MY, MY POINT ON THIS IS, I THINK REGARDLESS OF THE, THE IMPACT OF THIS, MY VIEW, ESPECIALLY HACKMAN ROAD IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF A POTENTIAL FRANKENSTEIN OF, WELL WE, THERE'S JUST THIS, THIS UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE.
WE'RE JUST REQUESTING A WAIVER, I THINK COMPREHENSIVELY AND HOLISTICALLY.
UH, WHAT I WOULD ASK IS THAT THE, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TAKES A LOOK AT THIS PARTICULAR ROAD AS ONE EXAMPLE.
AND I THINK MOVING INTO THE FUTURE IN UPPER PROVIDENCE, AS WE CONTINUE TO HAVE DEVELOPMENTS, WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO HAVE THESE SITUATIONS WHERE, WELL, IT'S JUST A WAIVER.
IT'S JUST A WAIVER, RIGHT? AND THAT'S PART OF OUR JOB IS TO SAY A WAIVER IS AN EXCEPTION.
YOU ARE ASKING FOR SOMETHING OUTSIDE THE NORM.
SO THAT'S JUST KIND OF THE POINT.
AND KIND OF TO YOUR POINT IS LIKE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISOR LOOKS FOR INPUT.
SO THAT'S WHY I THINK IT'S, IT'S PERTINENT EITHER WAY WE GO ON THIS OR NO RECOMMENDATION, MAYBE I THINK THEY'LL UNDERSTAND THAT.
SOMETHING THAT FOR THEM TO CONSIDER.
I'M SURE THEY GET COPIES OF OUR MEETING, SO THEY'LL LOOK FOR THAT AS WELL.
AND JEN, WE'RE ALL THERE TO DISCUSS IT WHEN IT, OKAY.
UM, MOVING ON THE FIRST, I THINK THAT'S ALRIGHT.
IT WOULD BE ON THE, THE MARCH 18TH BOARD OF SUPERVISOR AGENDA.
THANK YOU THAT, THAT'S THE NEXT SCHEDULED MEETING.
IDEALLY WE'D LIKE TO HAVE ALL OF LIKE THE PLAN DETAILS CLEANED UP BETWEEN NOW AND THAT MEETING SO I HAVE 'EM ALL TAKEN CARE OF.
I'LL SEND 'EM OVER TOMORROW OR YEAH, THAT'S FINE.
YEAH, WHENEVER YOU WANNA DROP OFF OUR COPIES AND ELECTRONIC COPIES.
YEAH, SO, 'CAUSE THE THE LETTERS SHOULD BE CLEAN, OTHER UNDERSTAND WAIVERS AND OUTSIDE STUFF.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
[00:20:19]
OKAY, JEFF, I THINK YOUR TIME'S COMING UP HERE FOR GENERAL DISCUSSION ON THE COMPREHENSIVE.UM, I, I, I WANTED TO PICK UP ON WHERE WE SORT OF LEFT OFF BACK IN NOVEMBER.
UM, AGAIN, A LOT OF THESE SLIDES YOU'LL HAVE SEEN I'LL, I'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ON JUST 'CAUSE JERRY'S NEW TO IT.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOME WORKING ASSUMPTIONS WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UM, THEY COME FROM THE ACT 2 0 9 LAND USE ASSUMPTION REPORT, THE DELAWARE VALLEY REGIONAL PLANNING, PLANNING POPULATION ESTIMATES.
WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT THEY'VE ESTIMATED THE TOWNSHIP, THE POPULATION TO BE.
AND AGAIN, LET'S GO INTO THAT AND SAY, JUST BECAUSE THEY ESTIMATED IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
I THINK D-V-R-P-C, THE DELAWARE VALLEY REGIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION, PRETTY SMART GROUP OF PEOPLE, THEY KNOW HOW THE POPULATION'S GONNA BREAK OUT.
BUT IT IS BASED ON OUR ZONING AND WHAT DEVELOPABLE LAND WE HAVE LEFT.
SO IF YOU TAKE BOTH SIDES OF THAT EQUATION, THE ZONING, IF THE ZONING DOESN'T ALLOW FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE GONNA COME HERE.
SO THAT BEING SAID, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE POPULATION PROJECTIONS HAVE US BY 2030 AT AROUND 26,000 PEOPLE.
UM, AND THAT TRANSLATES INTO ABOUT, I WOULD SAY 10,000 TOTAL, OR I'M SORRY, 10,615 TOTAL HOUSING UNITS NEEDED TO HOUSE THOSE PEOPLE.
RIGHT NOW WE'RE SITTING IN ABOUT 10,000 1 0 3.
SO THE GAP ISN'T EXTRAORDINARY.
IT'S NOT LIKE WE HAVE A, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, WE DON'T HAVE A HUGE HOUSING NEED IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
I'M NOT SAYING WE DON'T HAVE ANY NEED, BUT WE, IT'S NOT LIKE SOME MUNICIPALITIES BETTER, LIKE, OKAY, OUR POPULATION IS GROWING SO FAST AND WE CAN'T KEEP UP WITH IT.
WE HAVE SOME NEED, BUT IT IS NOT DIRE.
UM, YOU KNOW, BUT WITH RESIDENTIAL COMES AN INCREASE FOR HIGHER DEMAND, HIGHER DENSITY, BECAUSE WE HAVE SMALLER PARCELS LEFT, WE HAVE VERY FEW LARGE PARCELS LEFT.
AND YOU KNOW, I, I'LL SHARE, YOU KNOW, WE'LL GET TO A MAP THAT SORT OF SHOWS THAT, THAT THE EXISTING LAND USE AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND THE SMALL PARCELS, 10 TO 15 ACRES ARE HARDER TO DEVELOP.
SO THEREFORE, LIKE WE'VE RUN INTO WITH LOVER'S LANE, EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE COMPACTED A LITTLE BIT AND TO AVOID THE STEEP SLOPES AND NOW THE STEEP SLOPE ORDINANCE TO GET IT PUT IN PLACE LAST NIGHT.
SO NOW 25% ARE HIGHER AS A VARIANCE.
UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE THINGS ARE, THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE SORT OF HAVE TO, TO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT.
WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE GOING TO GO AND WHERE ARE ANY SORT OF POPULATION INCREASE GOING TO GOING TO BE.
UM, AGAIN, WITH OFFICE, THERE'S VERY LITTLE DEMAND.
UM, THERE WAS DISCUSSION LAST NIGHT THAT, THAT SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT THAT OFFICE IS GONNA COME BACK.
I THINK THERE'S DIFFERENT LEVELS OF OFFICE THAT'S GOING TO COME BACK.
I THINK YOUR LARGER SCALE OFFICE LIKE AN SEI, UH, GLAXO, EVEN PFIZER AND DOW ARE GOING TO COME BACK BECAUSE THEY HAVE A BASE AND THEY CAN MAKE THE PEOPLE COME BACK TO THREE, FOUR DAYS A WEEK.
BUT I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GONNA GET AN EMPLOYER THAT SAYS, HEY, WE WANT EVERYBODY BACK IN THE OFFICE AND WE'RE GONNA GO LEASE A NEW BUILDING.
IT IS USING THE EXISTING SPACE.
I THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE GOT BURNED BY THEIR REAL ESTATE BURDEN PRE COVID THAT THEY'RE NOT LOOKING TO GO OUT AND RENT NEW, BUT THEY'RE LOOKING TO USE THE SPACE THEY HAVE IN BETTER AND MORE EFFICIENT WAYS.
SO THAT LEADS US WITH A CONVERSION OF EXISTING BUILDINGS, MIXED USE IN EXISTING BUILDINGS, HYBRID WORKING AND PARKING AND, AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE SORT OF HAVE TO CONSIDER WHEN LOOKING AT WHAT'S GONNA BE THE NEXT STEP FOR A LOT OF, UH, YOU KNOW, OUR DEVELOPABLE AREAS.
AGAIN, RETAIL AND INDUSTRIAL, THEIR LAND USES THAT ARE THERE.
UM, SOME ARE SUCCESSFUL, SOME ARE MAYBE COMING BACK A LITTLE BIT.
WE SAW THE QUEST PROPOSAL FOR ACTUAL RETAIL.
I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED WHEN THAT ONE CAME IN, BUT THEY, AND THEY MADE THE CASE LAST NIGHT THAT THEY THINK THEY CAN MAKE IT WORK AND THEY HAVE LETTERS OF INTENT.
SO LET'S YOU KNOW IF THAT PLAN MOVES FORWARD.
AND THE BOARD WAS LUKE WARM ON IT.
I'LL GIVE YOU THEIR SORT OF FLAVOR FOR IT.
THEY, THERE WERE SOME THINGS THEY LIKED, SOME THINGS THEY DIDN'T LIKE YOU, THEY, THEY WEREN'T A FAN OF THE RESIDENTIAL MINDED.
THEY WERE MORE JUST ANTI RESIDENTIAL COMPLETELY.
YOU WERE, AT LEAST MY INTERPRETATION OF WHAT YOU SAID WAS THAT IT WAS A LITTLE TOO DENSE.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S SOME WIGGLE ROOM.
THEY'RE GONNA GO BACK AND TALK ABOUT IT AND THEY MIGHT BE BACK BEFORE YOU AGAIN SOMETIME IN APRIL, SOMETHING LIKE THAT WITH ANOTHER PLANE INTEGRATION TO SORT OF GO FROM THERE.
UM, SO THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN IS, IS REALLY FOCUSED ON THESE SIX AREAS.
UM, AND WE WILL RUN THROUGH THEM AGAIN.
THIS ONE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BRIDGE BIKE.
UM, THE, THE LAND USES IN THERE ARE VERY, VERY VARIED, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WAY TO PUT IT.
UM, THEY, THERE'S NOT A CONSISTENCY.
[00:25:01]
IT IS MOSTLY ZONED NEIGHBORHOOD CONVENIENCE COMMERCIAL THAT'S A ZONING DISTRICT THAT DOESN'T REALLY WORK BECAUSE IT IS, IT, IT TRIES TO WORK FOR INDIVIDUAL PARCELS AND LARGE PARCELS.IT'S, IT'S TOO ALL ENCOMPASSING.
UM, SO WHAT WE WANT, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO GET A SENSE OF, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THIS AS A FOCUS? WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THIS AS A REDEVELOPMENT CORRIDOR? AND I'LL WRITE SOME LANGUAGE ON HOW WE THINK IT CAN REDEVELOP.
AND THEN AT ONE OF THE NEXT MEETINGS YOU'LL SORT OF SAY, I THINK YOU'RE ON BASE.
I MEAN, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS, THIS CORRIDOR AND WHAT THE LAND USES ARE.
AND I MEAN, YOU'VE SEEN THE APPLICATIONS COME IN FOR RESIDENTIAL, REMEMBER THE
UM, THAT WAS REALLY THE ONLY PROPOSAL WE'VE GOTTEN FOR THIS.
I'VE HAD OTHER CALLS, NOTHING THAT'S TOO, I, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT TOO SURE ABOUT IT AT THIS POINT.
AND THEN WE ALSO HAD THE CLIMB ROAD DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WENT TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, WHICH WAS THE SMALL INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS THAT IS IN NOW IN, UM, APPEAL STASIS.
IT'S THE, THE ZONING HEARING BOARD DECISIONS BEING APPEALED.
AND THAT'S JUST SORT OF ON HOLD.
BUT I, I THINK THAT IF THE STATUS QUO MOVES FORWARD, THAT'S THE KIND OF DEVELOPMENT YOU CAN SEE SMALL QUASI INDUSTRIAL MANUFACTURING SORT OF SITES THAT WANT TO GO IN THERE.
I MEAN THAT'S, THAT TENDS TO BE WHAT'S IN THIS AREA.
IS THAT WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE CONTINUE AS A PLANNING COMMISSION? OR DO YOU WANT TO SEE THIS MOVE TO A RESIDENTIAL MORE LIKE TRACK WHERE IT'S RESIDENTIAL LITTLE OFFICE UP FRONT? OR DO YOU WANT TO JUST SORT OF SEE SOME, SOME REDEVELOPMENT LANGUAGE ON WHAT WE THINK CAN GO THERE AND SOME CHANGES TO ZONING AND GO FROM THERE? EXACTLY.
WHICH AREAS YOU REFERRING TO WHEN YOU'RE SAYING THAT, ARE YOU REFERRING TO EVERYTHING IT WE'RE LOOKING AT THE WHOLE PLAN HERE? YEAH, IT IS.
IT IS, IT REALLY IS JUST THE RIDGE PIKE AREA.
IT IS THE, UM, EVERYTHING ALONG THIS CORRIDOR.
SO WHERE THE WHITE IS AND THAT, THAT'S UNDEVELOPED LAND.
SO YOU HAVE A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL AND, UM, UNDEVELOPED LAND OR UNDERDEVELOPED LAND, UH, YOU KNOW, THE TREE FARM AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO THERE IS SOME CORE, SOME ANCHOR DEVELOPMENT SORT OF ON THE TOWNSHIP LINE SIDE, WHICH IS THE LEFT SIDE OF THE IMAGE.
AND THEN AS YOU DRIVE DOWN RIDGE PIKE HERE, I WISH THERE WAS A WAY I COULD DRAW ON THIS.
I CAN BADLY, BUT I'M GONNA DRAW ON THERE.
YOU NEED TO NO, I'M GONNA DO IT THIS WAY.
DRAWN ON GOT, SO THIS AREA RIGHT IN HERE AND, AND I GUESS YOU WOULD INCLUDE THAT, BUT IT'S EVERYTHING ALONG THE BRIDGE PIKE.
I THINK WE'VE ALL DRIVEN DOWN IT.
YOU CAN SEE THAT IT IS, IT IS NOT THE BEST LAND USES IN THE WORLD.
AND YOU KNOW, I I KEEP AN EYE ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN LIMERICK AND, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE MOVING SOME THINGS FORWARD, A LITTLE BIT MORE RESIDENTIAL, UM, A LITTLE BIT MORE INDUSTRIAL.
AND IF, AND IF THAT HAPPENS, IT'S GOING TO TEND TO FLOW TOWARDS US.
THAT'S WHAT WE CAN PUT IN THE COMP PLAN.
IF YOU'RE NOT SURE, I CAN TAKE A STAB AT IT AND SEE WHAT YOU THINK OF WHAT I WRITE AND GO FROM THERE.
I'VE DRIVEN UP AND DOWN THERE QUITE A BIT TO LOOK AT THIS.
IT REALLY IS BECAUSE IT IS NOT BEAUTIFUL TODAY.
UM, IT'S JUST KIND OF EVOLVED, I GUESS WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO PUT IT.
I WOULDN'T BE OPPOSED TO WHEREVER THERE'S SOME RESIDENTIAL NOW, MAYBE EXPANDING THAT A LITTLE BIT AND THEN SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL SO THAT YOU CAN MIX ALONG THE ROAD, BUT KEEP IT IN, IN SEPARATE SPOTS.
SO, SO IT'S NOT LIKE ONE THING HERE AND THEN ANOTHER ONE RIGHT NEXT DOOR AND THEN SOMETHING ELSE.
IT IS, THIS IS THE RESIDENTIAL PORTION OF IT.
THIS IS THE COMMERCIAL, THIS IS THE INDUSTRIAL OR WHATEVER.
I DON'T, THAT'S MY THOUGHTS FOR DISCUSSION.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE CURRENT ZONING IS AS NEIGHBORHOOD COMMUN IS COMMERCIAL.
YOU CAN TELL IF A ZONING WORKS BY, IF IT GETS USED, IF PEOPLE COME IN AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO USE.
OR IF YOU SEE THAT YOU HAVE A LOT OF NON-CONFORMING USES IN THAT AREA BECAUSE YOU APPLIED THE ZONING AT ONE POINT IN TIME OVER SOME NON-CON, NON-CONFORMING USES.
AND THOSE USES HAVEN'T GONE AND CHANGED TO LIKE, LET ME USE AN EXAMPLE OF A VILLAGE COMMERCIAL, WHICH IS DOWN IN EGYPT ROAD BY THE POST OFFICE IN NEST.
I'M SURE WE'VE ALL SEEN THAT SORT OF GOING FROM THE DENTAL OFFICE TO NEST TO POST OFFICE.
THAT'S, THAT'S GETTING APPLIED NOW.
IT'S A SMOKE SHOP AT THIS POINT,
[00:30:01]
BUT IT IS, AND MAYBE THAT'S NOT THE BEST LAND USE IN THE WORLD, BUT IT IS, IT IS USING THE BUILDING.NEST IS A A, A VILLAGE COMMERCIAL OFFICE USE.
AND THE BANK IS, IS, I HEAR IS IS GETTING RENTED.
I MEAN THERE, THERE'S AREAS IN THERE THAT ARE MOVING ALONG WITH THE ZONING AND IT'S NOT, THEY'RE NOT COMING IN FOR VARIANCE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE USING THE EXISTING ZONING.
SO GENERALLY THE UNDERSTANDING IS THE ZONING IS WORKING.
IT MAY NOT BE PERFECT, BUT IT IS WORKING HERE.
IT IS NOT WORKING BECAUSE THE, THE TWO LAND DEVELOPMENTS WE'VE HAD OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS HAVE BEEN THE, THE SELF STORAGE FACILITY, WHICH THEY ASKED US TO WRITE AN ORDINANCE ALLOWING THEM TO DO THAT.
AND THE BOARD ACCEPTED THAT AND WE DID THAT.
AND THEN THE KLE ROAD, I'M SORRY.
YEAH, THE, THE, UH, THE INDUSTRIAL AT THE INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS, AGAIN, THAT WAS IN ORDINANCE AND AN INTERPRETATION THAT WENT TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD AND WAS NOT, YOU KNOW, WAS NOT VOTED UPON BY THE ZONING HEARING ORDINANCE UNDER APPEAL.
LIDLE IS THE ONLY THING THAT'S COMING IN UNDER NC THAT'S ACTUALLY WORKED.
UM, BUT WILL THOSE COMMERCIAL AREAS WORK BETTER IF WE ACTUALLY HAVE SOME AND ALLOW SOME RESIDENTIAL IN THERE, THEN YOU'VE GOT MORE PEOPLE AND YOU NEED MORE STORES.
WHATEVER I USED, ITS UP ON APPEAL REALLY DIDN'T WORK FOR SOME REASONS RELATED TO PROXIMITY TO HOMES AND SOME SPECIFICS.
BUT THAT, THAT USE GENERALLY MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE AT LONG RIDGE SOMEWHERE.
AND AND WHICH WAS SMALL, SMALL, YOU KNOW, LIKE DESIGNED FOR SMALL BUSINESSES LIKE A LANDSCAPE GUIDES, YOU KNOW, WOULD HAVE LIKE A SMALL OFFICE AND THEN SOME SPOT SPACE IN THE BACK.
AND, AND MAYBE BECAUSE WE HAVE A LACK OF NEW OFFICE SPACE AND NEW, I MEAN, LOOK AT LIMERICK IS PUTTING IN A LOT OF MEDICAL OFFICE BUILDINGS.
I MEAN MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SORT OF SUGGEST FOR IN THERE IS, IS SOME OF THESE PARCELS THAT ARE DEEPER, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF HAVING SHOPPING AND HOUSING AND ALL OF THEM, MAYBE YOU LOOK AT SOME LARGER BOX.
'CAUSE NC RIGHT NOW DOES NOT ALLOW FOR LARGER BOX.
IT'S, IT IS MORE PROBLEMATIC TO PUT IT IN THERE.
THE TARGET AND, AND CHINA ARE DONE UNDER COMMUNITY REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER.
SO IT'S A DIFFERENT ZONING DISTRICT.
CAN YOU REMIND ME WHY THE SY ONE DID NOT GO THROUGH? THEY FADE AWAY.
THEY, THEY STEPPED AWAY FROM IT ON THEIR OWN.
I, I THINK THEY, THEY WENT TO THE, THEY WENT TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TWICE AND THEY ASKED THE HEARING TO STOP TWICE BECAUSE THEY COULD TELL THERE WAS A GENERAL LACK OF INTEREST ON THEIR PROPOSAL AND CHANGING THE ZONING.
AND WHAT IS THAT ZONED CURRENTLY? IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED NEIGHBORHOOD CONVENIENCE COMMERCIAL.
AND THAT'S A LITTLE BIT OF AN AWKWARD PARTIAL BECAUSE IT DOES GO BEHIND SOME HOUSES, YOU KNOW, AND NEIGHBORHOOD CONVENIENCE.
MAYBE SOME MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT OR MIXED USE ZONING MIGHT WORK BETTER FOR IT IN THERE.
BUT WHEN, WHEN THAT WAS IN FRONT OF US, WE DIDN'T HAVE LIGHTY AND SOME OF THOSE OTHER SHOPS THERE AT THE TIME.
DID WE, I THINK LIDLE WAS UNDER CONSTRUCTION AT THE TIME.
I WAS JUST THINKING IT WOULD, IT WOULD WORK.
I THINK TODAY, I DON'T KNOW, RESIDENTIAL IS THAT A PIPELINE THAT RUNS THROUGH THERE? UH, IT'S POWER LINES.
UH, I SEE THE POWER LINES IN GRAY, BUT THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT CUTS THE, WHAT DO YOU SHAPE THAT PERSON? RIGHT? OH, THERE, THERE'S, THERE'S A WHITE LINE THAT'S THE RIGHT OF WAY OWNED BY THE TOWNSHIP.
THERE'S TWO GRAY LINES WHICH STAND FOR, UM, EXISTING LAND USE FOR UTILITY BECAUSE THE, THE POWER LINES ARE OVERHOLD AND THE POWER LINES ARE ACTUALLY THE DARK BLACK LINE.
JEFF, WE, WE'VE, I THINK WE'VE AT LEAST TWICE RECENTLY HAD WE'VE DISCUSSED THE AUTOZONE.
THEY'RE NO LONGER INTERESTED IN THIS POSITION, IN THIS SPOT.
BUT THAT WAS ONE THAT CAME IN UNDER A PURE MC DEVELOPMENT.
I, I THINK WHAT HUNG THEM UP A LITTLE BIT WAS THE TOWNSHIP'S REQUIREMENT THAT THEY PUT AN ENTRANCE IN BECAUSE THE LARGER PARCEL BEHIND IT, THEY'RE THE SMALL PARCEL LITTLE SQUARE.
THEY, UM, WE MADE THEM, WE REQUIRED THEM TO PUT IN AN ENTRANCE THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR THE SHOPPING CENTER TO USE THAT ENTRANCE ON OUR RIGHT AWAY.
AND I THINK THAT HELD 'EM UP A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHEN THE SHOPPING, IF IF THE, IF A SHOPPING CENTER, WHICH IS WHAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN BEHIND IT WOULD GO IN AND IT'S JUST A QUESTION
[00:35:01]
OF WHETHER OR NOT WE THINK THAT THE PURE RETAIL FOR THIS AREA WORKS OR IF WE WANT TO SORT OF LOOK AT SOME HYBRID, YOU KNOW, FLEXIBLE DEVELOPMENT TYPE THAT ENCOURAGES DEVELOPMENT HERE.AGAIN, ZONING CAN BE USED TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT.
IT CAN ALSO BE ENCOURAGED TO DISCOURAGE USE TO DISCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT.
IF THIS IS AN AREA THAT WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT.
WE DON'T SPECIFICALLY WRITE THE ZONING AND THE COMP PLAN, BUT WE WRITE IT SO THAT IT, THE LANGUAGE WOULD START TO REFLECT THAT IN THE POLICY OF ENCOURAGING DEVELOPMENT IN THIS AREA.
SO I MEAN, I GUESS MAYBE I'M ASKING TOO SPECIFIC OF A QUESTION.
IS THIS AN AREA THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT IS, IS SIMPLY PROBABLY THE SIMPLEST QUESTION THAT WE NEED TO ANSWER.
IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'VE GOT ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE THERE TO HAVE A HAPPY COMMUNITY MY PLACE.
IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'VE GOT THE INFRASTRUCTURE THERE TO HAVE A HAPPY COMMUNITY.
YOU'VE GOT THE YMCA, YOU'VE GOT A BUNCH OF RETAIL.
UM, THE ONE THAT HOLTE HAD BEEN LOOKING AT THAT SEEMS KIND OF LIKE A NATURAL MM-HMM.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH, YOU KNOW, THREE FLOOR TOWNHOUSES LOVE LOOKING AT THE POWER LINES.
BUT IF YOU'RE FURTHER OVER AND FURTHER OVER, MAYBE THAT'S NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL.
JEFF, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I MEAN, I I IT SEEMS TO ME ENCOURAGING DEVELOPMENT THERE WOULD BE A POSITIVE THING.
I MEAN, RIGHT NOW IT'S KIND OF A DEAD ZONE THAT THE WHITE BLOCK, UH, THERE ALONG RIDGE PIKE IS KIND OF A DEAD ZONE.
UH, I'M WONDERING THOUGH, UM, MY SENSE IS THAT WE HAVE THERE, THERE'S SOME SLOPE ISSUES THERE AS WELL THOUGH.
I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF NOT THE, NOT THE BEST DEVELOPABLE LAND.
EVERYTHING COMES BACK TO SLEEP SLOPE RIGHT NOW.
AND, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S, THERE'S A WATERCOURSE THERE, MAYBE PERHAPS.
BUT, BUT, UH, SO, SO I THINK TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT THERE, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, IS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'D WANT TO DO.
OTHERWISE IT'S GONNA REMAIN A DEAD ZONE.
UM, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW EVERYBODY ELSE FEELS, BUT I MEAN, I'M NOT LOOKING FOR A FORMAL VOTE.
I'M SORT LOOKING FOR A CONSENSUS, A GENERAL IDEA.
I MEAN, IF YOU, IF YOU'D LIKE THE, IF YOU'RE KIND OF WARMING TO THE IDEA OF SOME RESIDENTIAL IN THERE WITH BUT ENCOURAGED DEVELOPMENT, I CAN WORK UP SOME LANGUAGE AND YOU CAN YEAH.
WHEN WE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT IT, YOU CAN TELL ME JEFF WRONG.
I I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM BEING WRONG.
IT TENDS TO HAPPEN MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE TALKING TO MY WIFE.
UM, SO IT IS, UM, IT, BUT IF THAT'S THE GENERAL FLAVOR I GET FROM YOU, THEN LET ME START WITH THAT LANGUAGE AND START WITH THAT IDEA AND THEN LET ME RUN WITH A LITTLE BIT, PUT IT IN SOME WORDS AND THEN WE'LL SEE IF WE CAN GO THERE.
I THINK THAT RESIDENTIAL WILL SPERM MORE OF THE COMMERCIAL, BUT WE NEED TO HAVE THE SPOTS.
THEN WE CAN NEGOTIATE FROM THERE.
BUT IF WE DON'T THINK AHEAD A LITTLE BIT, IT'S JUST GONNA BE A HODGEPODGE AGAIN.
SO THAT, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M AT TOO.
I THINK BROADLY IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE, WE SHOULD CONSIDER FOR DEVELOPMENT.
AND THEN WHEN YOU GET MORE SPECIFICALLY IS DO WE WANT TO WORD IT A SPECIFIC WAY SO IT DOESN'T GO THE, THE WRONG DIRECTION THE WAY WE DON'T WANT IT TO? YEAH.
I'LL, I'LL TAKE THAT BACK AND I'LL WORK ON THAT FROM THERE.
UM, AT THE, AT THE LAST MEETING AND AT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING LAST NIGHT, WE TALKED ABOUT THE NEED FOR OPEN SPACE.
I THINK TOM HAD MENTIONED THAT, HEY, WHAT ARE THE AREAS WE CAN PRESERVE? AND I SHOWED THIS AREA ON SECOND AVENUE, AND AGAIN, IT'S, IT IS, IT IS REALLY THE, THE THE WHITE NON DEVELOPED PIECES THAT I I, THE QUESTION IS AGAIN, DO WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT HERE OR DO WE WANT NOT ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT HERE OR DO WE WANT TO BE EVEN MORE SPECIFIC AND SAY WE WOULD LIKE TO, TO PURSUE ACQUIRING OPEN SPACE IN THIS AREA.
I, I KNOW WHEN WE TALKED TO TOM ABOUT IT, HE SAID, WELL, HOW DO WE DO THAT? AND IF IT'S IN THE COMP PLAN THAT WE'RE, THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE OPEN SPACE HERE THAT MAYBE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ENGAGES MYSELF OR BRIAN OR TIM TO, TO GO OUT AND TO HAVE A DISCUSSION TO TALK TO THESE LANDOWNERS AND SAY, HEY, HOW INTERESTED ARE YOU IN PRESERVING YOUR OPEN SPACE? CAN WE WORK WITH YOU? CAN WE HAVE DISCUSSIONS AND SORT OF START THAT, OPEN THAT DOOR BECAUSE IT'S IN OUR COMP PLAN.
THIS IS SORT OF THE FIRST STEP.
I, I DON'T KNOW A LAND, WELL I KNOW A COUPLE OF LANDOWNERS DOWN HERE, I, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR PREFERENCE IS IN TERMS OF PRESERVATION OR SELLING TO THE TOWNSHIP OR SELLING THEIR PROPERTY RIGHTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
BUT IT IS, IT IS SOMETHING THAT, IT IS A LARGE AREA OF OPEN SPACE LEFT OF THE TOWNSHIP.
IT IS A LITTLE STEEP, IT IS A LITTLE WET.
IT IS GONNA BE A LITTLE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT OF THIS, A LITTLE BIT OF THAT.
IT'S NOT GONNA BE THE EASIEST PROPERTY.
YOU HAVE TO TRAIN IN YOUR BACKYARD TOO.
YOU GOT A POWER LINE AROUND THERE.
IT'S NOT GONNA BE EASY TO DEVELOP.
IF IT COMES TO US AS DEVELOPMENT,
[00:40:01]
IT'S GONNA BE DIFFICULT.BUT IF IN THE COMP PLAN WE'RE, WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE IT TO BE OPEN SPACE, IT AT LEAST OPENS THE DOOR TO THE NEXT STEP.
MY FIRST THOUGHT WOULD BE WE NEED A, A STRIP OF LAND NEAR THE RAILROAD TRACK TO SET BACK SO THAT YOU KNOW, YOU'RE FURTHER AWAY FROM THE NOISE IF YOU WILL.
WE EVEN HEAR IT REMOTE SOMETIMES.
DEPENDING ON HOW HEAVY THE AIR IS AT THE TIME.
BUT THEN YOU TAKE THAT HOUSE THAT JUST GOT BUILT THERE, IT'S A BEAUTIFUL HOME.
UM, AND I'M SURE THEY HEAR THE DRAINS.
THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BOTHER THEM A BIT.
WHEN I FIRST MOVED TO THE AREA, I WAS LOOKING AT THE HOUSES THAT THEY JUST, THAT THEY BUILT ALONG THE RAILROAD TRACKS IN ROERS FORD.
I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT'S THE ONE WHEN YOU GO DOWN MAIN STREET AND HANG A LEFT WITH THAT WHOLE ROW OF THEM IN THERE.
THE APARTMENTS, LITERALLY THE HOUSE WE WERE GONNA BUY WAS RIGHT ON THE RAILROAD TRACKS.
AND I ASKED THE DEVELOPER AND I SAID, CAN YOU HEAR THE TRAIN? HOW OFTEN DOES THE TRAIN COME? THEY'RE LIKE, OH NO, NOT VERY OFTEN.
I CAN HEAR FROM WHERE I LIVE AND I'M A MILE AWAY TWO MILES AWAY AT THIS POINT, YOU KNOW, SO I HAVE TALKED TO SOME PEOPLE THAT I KNOW THAT LIVE THERE AND SOME OTHER PEOPLE THAT KNOW SOME PEOPLE AND THEY SAY, WELL YOU JUST GET USED TO IT.
I'M LIKE, MM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S REALLY HOW I WANT TO ENCOURAGE LAND DEVELOPMENT.
YOU'LL GET USED TO THE NOISE, BUT FROM MY PROFESSIONAL STANDPOINT, FROM MY RECOMMENDATION, I WOULD RECOMMEND LEAVING THIS AS R ONE BECAUSE IT'S ALL ZONED R ONE AT THIS POINT AND MAKING THE RECOMMENDATION TO THE COMP PLAN THAT THE TOWNSHIP LOOK TO ACQUIRE AS MUCH OF THIS OPEN SPACE IN THIS AREA AS THEY CAN.
I LIKE THE IDEA, I THINK FOR TWO REASONS, SPECIFICALLY I THINK FROM A PLANNING COMMISSION'S PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE OF THE RAILROAD, THE, UH, BCO, ALL, EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THAT SMALL, YOU KNOW, RELATIVELY SMALL AREA THAT JUST MAKES IT COMPLICATED.
ONE, WE SEE FURTHER SUBDIVISIONS, LIKE WE HAVE THE ONE OFF HANER, WHICH IS PART OF THIS YEAR.
AND THEY WANT TO, YOU KNOW, SUBDIVISION, ET CETERA.
AND THERE'S ALL, ALL THE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT.
THE SECOND REASON I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA IS BECAUSE THAT BIG GRAY SPOT TO THE RIGHT, WHICH IS PART OF PARK HOUSE, UM, IS WE DON'T KNOW WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH THAT, BUT WE GOTTA BE THINKING ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THAT ADJACENT LAW, UH, AND HOW SECOND AVENUE, UH, WILL PROCEED TRAFFIC WISE.
IF THAT'S A CONSENSUS, YOU PARK HOUSE.
UM, BEFORE WE GET OFF THAT SUBJECT, DOES ANYBODY FROM THE AUDIENCE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS OR COMMENTS THEY'D LIKE TO MAKE BEFORE WE CONTINUE? HAVE ONE QUESTION.
UH, GET TO THE MIC AND GIMME
JEFF, YOU PROBABLY KNOW YOUR ADDRESS.
UM, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ACQUIRING OPEN SPACE NOW.
WOULD THIS INVOLVE CONDEMNATION IF THE PEOPLE WEREN'T COOPERATIVE? I THINK THAT'S A BOARD DECISION FOR WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT.
I JUST WANT TO PUT IT OUT THERE.
LOOK, IS IT, IS IT A TOOL IN OUR TOOLBOX? ABSOLUTELY.
IS IT SOMETHING THAT I WOULD EVER RECOMMEND TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS? NO, BECAUSE IT GETS EXPENSIVE AND IT DOESN'T MAKE PEOPLE HAPPY.
BUT IF WE CAN ENTER INTO A DISCUSSION WITH SOMEBODY AND FIND A WAY TO FUND IT THROUGH COUNTY OPEN SPACE MONEY OR OTHER GRANTS AND OTHER OTHER FUNDING TO ACQUIRE THIS LAND FROM THEM.
AND, AND THE TOWNSHIP ISN'T EXPENDING ANY MONEY.
LOOK, I WOULD NEVER, I I WOULD HARDLY EVER RECOMMENDING CONDEMNING ANYTHING.
THE ONLY THING I'D REALLY RECOMMEND RECOMMENDING IS RIGHT.
CONDEMNING IS RIGHT OF WAY BECAUSE YOU ARE WIDENING A ROAD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WE HAVE TO DO IT A LOT FOR DEVELOPMENT.
BUT FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS, ACQUIRING A LARGE PARCEL LIKE THAT, IT NEVER WORKS OUT WELL FOR ANYBODY.
AND I, I DON'T THINK IT'S AN AVENUE THAT THE BOARD WOULD WANT TO PURSUE.
I I CAN'T PREDICT WHAT THEY, WHAT THEY WANT TO DO AND IT IS A TOOL IN THEIR TOOLBOX.
UH, HOW WOULD IT BE EVALUATED CURRENT MARKET VALUE? IF IT, IF THE TOWNSHIP WAS TO BUY IT, WOULD IT BE EVALUATED AT CURRENT MARKET VALUE OR WOULD IT BE UH, PRORATED LESS? THIS IS JUST, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE ATTORNEY.
IF YOU USE, IF YOU USE THEM IN A DOMAIN, IT ALWAYS, UH, WHAT WAS THE FAIR MARKET VALUE THE DAY BEFORE THE TAKE AND WHAT THE DAY AFTER THE TAKE? BUT I'M TALKING NOW.
SO LET'S NEGATE, UH, KIND OF MISSION.
LET'S GO TO, YOU GO TO THE PERSON YOU HAVE, THEY'RE WILLING TO SELL IT TO YOU.
NOW HOW IS THAT EVALUATED? LIKE THE LAND SALE? YOU HAVE TO STILL, YOU HAVE TO GET AN APPRAISAL.
APPRAISAL AND YOU HAVE, YOU CAN'T GO HIGHER THAN THE APPRAISAL.
AND FUNDING WOULD GET THROUGH OPEN SPACES, WHATEVER.
[00:45:01]
WHAT THIS DOES IS THIS OPENS, THIS IS THE FIRST STEP.IT OPENS THE DOOR A LITTLE BIT SO THAT WE CAN GO LOOK FOR THOSE GRANTS.
WELL FIRST WE HAVE TO FIND A WILLING SELLER.
IF THERE'S A WILLING SELLER, THEN WE DETERMINE WHERE WE CAN GET GRANTS, HOW MUCH THE TOWNSHIP IS WILLING TO FUND, IF AT ALL.
AND, AND WHERE, WHERE WE CAN GET THOSE GRANTS AND WHERE WE CAN, HOW WE CAN MAKE THIS PROCESS WORK.
IT'S, IT IS JUST LAYERS OF AN ONION AND WE'RE UNPEELING IT.
THAT'S WHY ALL PAYER ARE ASKING THE QUESTIONS.
I ABSOLUTELY FIGURED IT WAS GONNA BE SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
AND IT, IT IS NOT AN EASY PROCESS AND I, I, I KNOW A COUPLE LANDOWNERS DOWN THERE, I KNOW THE SHEETS AND I KNOW MR. HOFFMAN.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR, WHAT THEY HAVE ANY DESIRE TO SELL OR IF THEY EVEN SELL THE TOWNSHIP.
AND IF THE BOARD TAKES THIS UNDER RECOMMENDATION IN THE COMP PLAN AND THEN WHEN WE START TACKLING WHAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE IN THE COMP PLAN, IF THIS IS ONE THAT THEY PRIORITIZE, WE'LL REACH OUT TO 'EM AND WE'LL SEE.
WE MIGHT GET A HARD NO, WE MIGHT GET THE DOOR SLAMMED IN OUR FACE.
BUT IF WE CAN PROGRESS DOWN THE ROAD AND EVENTUALLY GET THERE IN FIVE YEARS, EIGHT YEARS AND WE GET THERE.
THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION.
ALRIGHT, SO THE RECOMMENDATION ON THIS IS GOING TO BE PRESERVE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE LOOK TO ACQUIRE THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT FOR NOW IT STAYS R ONE AND FOR NOW IT STAYS R ONE.
UM, WHICH LIMITS IT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT ANYHOW.
IT DOES IT, IT DOES REQUIRE, I MEAN THE OPEN ON, ON THE BASE R ONE, THE OPEN SPACE SET ASIDE ISN'T THAT GREAT.
BUT THAT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE USING ACRE LOTS.
IT IS WHEN YOU GO TO THE SMALLER LOTS THAT YOU HAVE A LARGER OPEN SPACE SET ASIDE.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE TRADE OFF HERE.
THIS ONE WAS SORT OF THE MOST COMPLICATED ONE.
WE HAVE THE, THE FUTURE LAND USE.
WE HAVE 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE, WHICH IS, OH HOLD ON 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE, WHICH IS THIS PIECE HERE.
200, 400, WHICH THIS PIECE HERE AND QUEST, THE Q UM, THEY, WE KNOW WHERE QUEST IS.
YOU CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION IN THE, IT'S NOT A FORMAL APPLICATION.
SO IF YOU STILL WANNA MAKE A RECOMMENDATION IN THE COMP PLAN THAT YOU DON'T WANNA SEE A MIXED USE OR YOU WANNA STAY, STAY, STAY OFFICE, YOU CERTAINLY CAN.
UM, IF YOU WANNA MAKE A BLANKET RECOMMENDATION FOR ALL OF THIS IN TERMS OF HOW WE REUSE BUILDINGS, THAT WE JUST LOOK TO SEE WHAT THE MARKET FORCES ARE DRIVING AND REACT AT THAT POINT IN TIME.
WHICH IS SORT OF HOW THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TOOK IT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO WHEN WE SAT DOWN AND TALKED ABOUT THESE THINGS.
THAT, THAT WE DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING AT THIS POINT, BUT WE LOOK AT EACH APPLICATION AS IT COMES IN.
UH, OR WE DECIDE, HEY, LET'S GO, LET'S MAKE IT RESIDENTIAL AND, AND LET'S LET SOMEONE BUILD, BUT WE WANT LESS THAN 10 UNITS PER ACRE.
OR YOU KNOW, WE WANT HIGHER DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
AGAIN, THIS IS SORT OF YOUR SENSE OF WHAT YOU THINK.
WE DON'T HAVE TO GET VERY SPECIFIC.
AGAIN, WE CAN BOIL THE QUESTION DOWN.
DO YOU WANT TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT OR DO YOU NOT WANNA ENCOURAGE REDEVELOPMENT? HOW LONG HAS 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE BEEN SITTING THERE EMPTY? I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE.
JOE, HOW LONG DOES A APPEAL PROCESS TAKE TO THE RECORDER OF DEEDS? COURT? COURT OF ASSESSMENT.
UM, YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU TAKE THE APPEAL AFTER YOUR, YOU GET YOUR NEW ASSESSMENT.
UM, AND THEN IT TAKES I GUESS ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS FROM THE DATE YOU HAVE UNTIL YOU GET THE HEARING AND THEY GET THEIR DECISION ON THE HEARING MIGHT BE A TOTAL OF FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS.
I WASN'T SURE IF THERE WAS SORT OF LIKE A WELL I WAS TRYING TO SORT OF GET A SENSE OF HOW LONG 'CAUSE THEY'VE GONE THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
SO WE KNOW IT'S AT LEAST SIX MONTHS OF GETTING THEIR ASSESSMENT APPEAL.
UM, I WOULD SAY IT'S PROBABLY BEEN AT LEAST A YEAR BEFORE THAT BECAUSE I'VE GOTTEN PHONE CALLS AND HAD SOME MEETINGS ABOUT IT.
IT, IT, IT HAS BEEN QUITE A WHILE.
YOU CAN TELL BY THE LOOK OF THE PARKING LOT.
AND I, I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN THAT THEY CAN, FROM AN OFFICE STANDPOINT, THEY CAN BUILD A MIRROR BUILDING THERE.
THEY'VE JUST NEVER DONE IT BECAUSE THEY'VE NEVER HAD THE DEMAND.
BUT LOOK HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED.
THREE YEARS AGO WE WERE IN THE PANDEMIC.
YOU COULDN'T GIVE THE BUILDINGS AWAY AT THAT POINT.
THEN THEY STARTED COMING BACK A LITTLE BIT AND NO.
NO, AND YOU KNOW, IT WAS BACK AND FORTH CHOPPY.
THIS COULD CHANGE TOTALLY AGAIN IN THREE YEARS.
BUT LEMME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
WHEN WE DID THE LAST COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BETWEEN 2008 AND 2010, WE HAD PLANNED FOR APARTMENTS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF ARCOLA ROAD.
NOT WHERE THEY'RE TODAY, NOT THEY'RE ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
THAT PLAN CALLED FOR THE APARTMENTS UP ON THAT SIDE AND OFFICE SUPPORT BETWEEN WHITE SPRINGS FARM AND, AND
[00:50:01]
UM, RIDGE PIPE OR AND PROVINCETOWN CENTER.I WOULD SAY WITHIN MINUTES OF PUBLISHING THAT PLAN, PROVIDENCE CORPORATE CENTER CAME IN AND SAID, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE HAVE MADISON APARTMENTS THAT WANTS TO COME IN HERE AND PUT APARTMENTS.
YOU KNOW, MADISON'S UP ON CAMPUS DRIVE AND SORT OF SITS BACK ON THE HILL.
UM, THEY SAID, WE WANNA PUT A PERMITS IN HERE.
WHAT CAN WE DO TO, TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN? AND TO US, I I REMEMBER TO CHARLIE
NOW I'M NOT SAYING PUT MORE RESIDENTIAL IN HERE.
I'M JUST SAYING THAT WHEN YOU WRITE A COMP PLAN, INEVITABLY FIVE MINUTES LATER SOMEBODY COMES IN WITH AN IDEA AND SAYS, HEY FIT, YOU KNOW, I, I KIND OF THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA.
AND YOU RUN UP TO FIVE POINT BRIDGE LIKE, WELL YEAH, IT KIND OF IS A GOOD IDEA.
AND MADISON I THINK HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL.
I THINK THEY'VE GROWN IN NICELY.
IT IS, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S A NICE APARTMENT COMPLEX.
AGAIN, I, WE CAN START WITH JUST DO WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE REDEVELOPMENT OF THESE SITES OR DO WE JUST WANNA WAIT LIKE WE DID WITH QUEST AND SEE WHAT COMES IN? QUEST WAS A MUCH SHORTER TIMELINE.
QUEST STARTED IN OCTOBER, NOVEMBER AND WE'RE HERE NOW.
BUT QUEST ALSO HAS THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE EXPOSURE ON THAT CORNER.
THAT 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE AND 200, 400 AND A HALF.
YOU'RE ALSO GONNA BE LIMITED ON CAMPUS DRIVE TO, IF YOU WERE TO DO A MIXED FUSE WITH RESIDENTIAL AND RETAIL, YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET AS MUCH RETAIL IN THERE.
'CAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU'RE NOT GOING NICOLE SPACE SAYS, I'M NOT GONNA GET ANY RETAIL IN THERE TRAFFIC.
WELL, ARE YOU GETTING CALLED CALLS FROM MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPERS? BECAUSE I KNOW SOME MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPERS HAVE LOOKED AT THAT.
AND THEIR QUESTION TO YOU IS, ARE YOU WILLING TO YES.
BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO TAKE A REZO, ALL OF THESE PARCELS.
THE BEAUTY AND CURSE OF THESE PARCELS IS ALL OF THEM ARE UNDER MORE CONTROL THAN WE HAVE WITH, LET'S SAY PARKHOUSE OR SOUTH LOUIS ROAD TOWN HOMES.
THOSE FIT INTO AN EXISTING ZONING DISTRICT.
AND WE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF SAY THESE TO DO ANYTHING ON THE QUEST.
ANY OF THE, THE CAMPUS DRIVE IS GOING TO REQUIRE A REZONING BECAUSE THERE'S OFFICE BUILDINGS THERE.
IF SOMEONE WAS COMING WITH AN OFFICE BUILDING, THEY COULD COME IN AND JUST CHANGE THE OWNERSHIP AND THEY COULD MOVE IN TOMORROW.
NOTHING THE TOWNSHIP COULD DO OR SAY ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S AN OFFICE USE.
NOW MAYBE IF THERE WAS SOME SORT OF HYBRID OFFICE USE IN TERMS OF LABS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WE MIGHT HAVE TO LOOK AT SOME BUILDING PERMITS.
BUT AGAIN, IN THIS ZONING DISTRICT, IT'S ALL PERMITTED.
WHERE THE ADVANTAGE WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS WE GET TO SET THE ZONING FOR IT.
SO THAT'S WHY WHEN QUEST CAME IN, WE CAN SAY TO THEM, WE LIKE THIS, WE DON'T LIKE THIS.
COME BACK WHEN YOU HAVE A BETTER IDEA.
THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD DID LAST NIGHT.
THAT'S WHAT YOU GENERALLY DID TWO OR THREE WEEKS AGO.
AGAIN, WE CAN SAY WE ENCOURAGE REDEVELOPMENT OF THESE SITES BECAUSE IT HELPS OUR TAX BASE.
YOU KNOW, IT GETS RID OF DILAPIDATED BUILDINGS, CLEANS UP THE LANDSCAPE, BUT WE'RE NOT WILLING TO COMMIT TO A CERTAIN TYPE OF LAND USE AT THIS POINT.
I MEAN, THAT'S SOMETHING THE LANGUAGE COULD SAY TO LET DEVELOPERS COME IN AND SAY, HERE'S MY IDEA.
THEY'RE NOT REAL PRODUCTIVE RIGHT NOW, BUT THEY'RE, WE'RE STILL GETTING TAXES ON.
WE, I MEAN, WELL WE'RE GETTING SOME PROPERTY TAX.
WE'RE GETTING SOME PROPERTY TAX, WHICH WE ONLY, WE HAVE A VERY SMALL PROPERTY TAX COMPARATIVELY TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
WHAT WE'RE NOT GETTING IS OUR EARNED INCOME TAX.
WE ARE, OUR BUDGET IS PRIMARILY PROBABLY 80% EARNED INCOME TAX.
SO WITHOUT EMPLOYEES OR PEOPLE LIVING THERE WE'RE NOT DRAWING ANY EARNED INCOME TAX.
WHAT WOULD YOU THINK OF THE MOLDING PURPOSE? RETAIL IN THE FIRST PART? COULD BE.
I DON'T THINK YOU'D BE ABLE TO DRAW ANY ATTENTION TO THAT.
WE HAD ONE OF THOSE RECENTLY UP TOWARDS COLLEGE.
WE CAN'T HEAR THIS CONVERSATION UNLESS IT'S, WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT POSSIBLY HAVING SOME TYPE OF COMMERCIAL ON THE LOWER LEVEL AND HAVING MAYBE RENTALS ON THE TOP.
AND, AND THEN THE COMMENT I MADE WAS, WE JUST HAD ONE OF THOSE RECENTLY AND I'M NOT TOO SURE IT'S READY TO START A FIRE
SO, AND THAT WAS DONE BY REQUIREMENT ENVIRONMENT IN FROM THAT ZONING DISTRICT VERSUS LIKE, OH, WE'D LOVE TO PUT RETAIL.
ACTUALLY I THINK IT'S BEEN APPROVED, HASN'T IT? ARE WE TALKING YOUR KEY STATION? NO, NO.
YES, THAT IS, THAT IS APPROVED.
THAT IS, WELL THAT WAS, AGAIN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, THAT WAS A REACTION TO THE ZONING THAT WE PUT IN PLACE TO ENCOURAGE SOME REDEVELOPMENT OF
[00:55:01]
THAT CORRIDOR.THE LAST COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CALLED FOR A HYBRID USE A MIXED USE ALONG THAT CORRIDOR.
AND YOUR, THAT'S WHY THE, FOR LACK OF A BETTER NAME, IT WAS CALLED MIXED USE.
IT ENCOURAGES MIXED USE IN THE SMALLER DEVELOPMENTS, THE SMALLER PARTS ALONG THE FRONT OF 29, SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ON, ON LEWIS ROAD.
AS YOU HEAD OUT TOWARDS LIMERICK, PAST BROOK ELEMENTARY, YOU, YOU, YOU GET A LOT OF THESE HOUSES THAT CONVERT TO OFFICE BUILDINGS AND YOU, THE DISTRICT AS IT'S WRITTEN, ENCOURAGES SHARED DRIVEWAYS AND REDUCING THE NUMBER OF DRIVEWAYS ALONG 29 BECAUSE THAT'S A BIG ISSUE HERE IS THE NUMBER OF DRIVEWAYS WE HAVE.
WE'RE, I THINK WE'RE MAKING A REALLY BIG LEAP FORWARD WITH THE INTERSECTION AND, AND THE LIGHT AT YOUR EAST ROAD, YOUR KEY STATION.
AND THAT'S CLEANING IT UP A LOT.
IT IS JUST NOW WHAT'S GOING ON? WELL, FOR THESE IT IS, IT IS NOT PART OF THAT, BUT, BUT YOUR KEY STATION, IT IS, IT ENCOURAGES A MIXED USE IN THERE AND SHARED DRIVEWAYS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
I MEAN, THIS IS FOR THESE THREE PARCELS IN HERE FOR THE ROUTE 29 INTERCHANGE, ENCOURAGING MIXED USE IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT'S VIABLE.
UM, YOU DON'T HAVE TO NAME WHAT THOSE USES ARE.
YOU CAN SAY A MIXTURE OF USES AND LEAVE IT VAGUE AND LET SOMEONE COME IN WITH AN IDEA.
AGAIN, PEOPLE LIKE NIKKI ARE VERY SMART AND THEY DRIVE THE, THEY THEY DRIVE THE MARKET MORE THAN I EVER CAN AND MORE THAN ZONING EVER CAN BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO BUILD AND WHERE PEOPLE WANNA SPEND MONEY TO BUILD THINGS OUT THERE.
THEY MAY NOT ALWAYS KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO BUILD, BUT THEY, UH, THEY'RE WILLING SPEND THE MONEY TO FIND A PLACE.
SO YEAH, THE QUEST SITE IS JUST UNBELIEVABLE.
AND AGAIN, WE DON'T NEED TO, WE DON'T NEED TO OVER AGAIN, WE DON'T NEED TO OVER ANALYZE IT FOR THIS LEVEL.
IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH SAYING A MIXTURE OF USES AND, AND, AND ENCOURAGING MORE REDEVELOPMENT THAN WAITING FOR THE OFFICE MARKET TO COME BACK, THAT'S CERTAINLY A RECOMMENDATION.
AND WE CAN, I CAN WORK LANGUAGE UP AND GO FROM THERE AND SEE WHAT YOU THINK.
AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I WRITE, AGAIN, TELL ME I'M WRONG.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH JEFF.
I LIKE THE SOUND OF, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THAT THE LANGUAGE THAT LEAVES OUR OPTIONS OPEN, YOU KNOW, UM, WE DON'T HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL.
AND WE'LL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY IF SOMEONE COMES WITH AN IDEA OR A PROPOSAL TO, YOU KNOW, TO JUDGE THAT, THAT PROPOSAL AT THE TIME.
UM, SO IT SEEMS TO ME IF YOU WANT TO TRY AND PROMOTE DEVELOPMENT OR PROMOTE USE OF THIS, YOU WANNA BE LESS RESTRICTIVE, UH, UPFRONT, AT LEAST GATHER PEOPLE'S INTEREST.
AND THEN WE CAN ALWAYS, UH, YOU KNOW, MAKE JUDGMENT LATER.
AND I THINK BY THE COMP PLAN SAYING WE'RE INTERESTED IN REDEVELOPMENT AT LEAST OPENS THAT DOOR AGAIN A LITTLE BIT.
WE DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE THE ZONING, WE DON'T HAVE TO RECOMMEND THAT THE ZONING CHANGE.
SO WE JUST HAVE TO RECOMMEND THAT WE'RE, THAT THE TOWNSHIP IS ENCOURAGING REDEVELOPMENT OF THESE SITES TO BOLSTER OUR TAX BASE, TO DO THIS, TO DO THAT LANGUAGE.
I'LL PUT IN THERE AND THEN LET THEM COME TO US WITH IDEAS.
AND IF WE LIKE IT, WE RECOMMEND TO THE BOARD THAT THEY APPROVE IT.
AND IF THEY LIKE IT, THEY APPROVE IT AGAIN.
IT IS, IT IS SORT AGAIN, IT IS SORT OF PEELING THE ONION.
WE'RE TAKING THAT TOP LAYER OFF THAT YOU CAN'T EAT AND SAYING, LOOK, LET, LET'S DO SOMETHING WITH IT AS OPPOSED TO JUST LETTING THINK COMES UP.
I MEAN, YOU'RE RIGHT NEXT TO AN EXIT OR AN ENTRANCE, UH, 4 22 PRIME SPACE.
SO JEFF, IS THERE A WAY IN THE, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO BASICALLY PUT OURSELVES ON TASK WHERE WE KNOW THAT THIS IS IMPORTANT, BUT WE ALSO, LIKE YOU SAID, CAN'T READ THE CRYSTAL BALL.
LIKE SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF WE WILL REVISIT THIS PARTICULAR IN LIKE 18 MONTHS OR SOMETHING SO THAT WE ARE, WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT WE DON'T JUST HAVE THIS IN A PLAN THAT, YOU KNOW, IT SITS
I MEAN, AND WE CAN MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION.
I, I THINK 18 MONTHS IS A LITTLE BIT SHORT ONLY BECAUSE DEVELOPMENT DOESN'T MOVE THAT FAST.
BUT AGAIN, I, YOU KNOW, WELL, IT TYPICALLY DOESN'T MOVE THAT FAST.
QUEST IS THE WAY QUEST IS MOVING IS AN OUTLIER.
THEY'RE MOVING VERY QUICKLY, BUT I THINK THEY'RE ALSO UNDER AN AGREEMENT THAT I THINK QUEST SELLING IT PUT THEM UNDER A VERY SHORT AGREEMENT.
THEY NEED TO GET SOME ANSWERS FAIRLY QUICKLY, IS MY UNDERSTANDING OF IT.
I HAVEN'T SEEN THE DOCUMENT, BUT YES, WE CAN CERTAINLY PUT THAT IN THERE, THAT WE REVISIT THIS PORTION OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN TWO YEARS.
AND THEN IN TWO YEARS WE TAKE, WE SIT DOWN AND WE HAVE THE SAME CONVERSATION WHERE WE, WE LOOK AT THE RECOMMENDATIONS, WE SAY, ARE WE STILL COMFORTABLE WITH THIS RECOMMENDATION? OKAY.
DO WE HAVE ANY NAYS TO THAT? SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE ALL IN FAVOR OF THAT.
THIS, WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THIS LAST TIME.
[01:00:02]
SORRY.IS THIS ONE OFF WALLFORD? NO, THIS IS THE WALKER TRACT.
IT IS, AS YOU'RE GOING ON BLACKROCK ROAD AND YOU GO THAT ONE LANE BRIDGE THAT ONLY RESIDENTS KNOW REALLY ISN'T A ONE ONE LANE BRIDGE
THERE'S A SIGN OUT FRONT AND THERE'S A FLAG POLE.
AND SOMETIMES HE PUTS A, A, A THING OUT THERE WHERE PEOPLE PUT CANTA LOOPS AND, AND PUMPKINS AFTER HALLOWEEN DEFEATED ANIMALS.
UM, THE COUNTY EMAILED ME ABOUT A WEEK AGO, TWO WEEKS AGO AND SAID, HEY, MR. WALKER APPROACHED US ABOUT PRESERVING HIS PROPERTY.
YOU PUT IT IN THE LAST COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
SHE WAS, SHE WAS ASKING IF WHERE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WAS, AND SHE SAID, AND I ASKED HER WHAT SHE NEEDED IT FOR AND, AND SHE SAID, MR. WALKER APPROACHED US AND SAID THAT THEY WERE IN, HE WAS INTERESTED IN SELLING THIS PROPERTY OR PRESERVING THIS PROPERTY.
IS IT SOMETHING YOU'D STILL BE INTERESTED IN DOING? AND SHE ASKED ME, IS IT SOMETHING THE PLANNING COMMISSION WOULD STILL BE INTERESTED IN DOING? SO I SAID, I WOULD BRING, WE WERE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IN A WEEK, I WOULD BRING IT TO YOU AND SEE IF YOU FELT COMFORTABLE WITH PUTTING THIS OUT THERE.
THAT THIS IS A PROPERTY THE TOWNSHIP SHOULD ACQUIRE AND SHOULD OR SHOULD LOOK TO PRESERVE IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'RE GONNA FUND IT, BUT IT IS, HE APPROACHED THE COUNTY OPEN SPACE BOARD ABOUT IT.
THEY REACHED OUT TO ME AND I JUST CONNECTING THE DOTS AT THIS POINT SO WE CAN, IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT, WE CAN PUT IT IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WASN'T MINE, BUT
WHEN YOU CONVERT SOMETHING TO OPEN SPACE THAT DOESN'T SAY PARK.
JUST THEY, IT, IT, WELL, IT, IT, IT, IT IS VARYING LEVELS.
LIKE THE PROPERTIES WE'RE BUYING ALONG THE RIVER, WE'RE NOT GONNA BRING IT INTO A PARK.
WE'RE GONNA, OKAY, WHATEVER GRANT MONEY WE GET, WE'RE GONNA SORT OF DIVIDE UP IN BETWEEN HOW MANY PARCELS WE HAVE AND SAY, OKAY, THAT MEANS EVERYBODY GETS FIVE TREES OR SEVEN BUSHELS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
MAKE THE MAINTENANCE AS LOW AS POSSIBLE.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA BE.
WE DEPENDS ON WHAT KIND OF GRANT MONEY WE GET FOR PUTTING THE VEGETATION IN.
SO WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS, IT DEPENDS ON HOW IT'S PRESERVED AS OPEN SPACE.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE CORNER OF WARMAN AND TOWNSHIP LINE, THERE'S A FARM THERE THAT THE TOWNSHIP CONTRIBUTED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY TO.
THE OWNERS STILL LIVE THERE, BUT IT'S PERMANENTLY PRESERVED.
THEY'VE SOLD THEIR DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS AND IT CAN NEVER BE DEVELOPED.
BUT THEY STILL OPERATE IT AS A FARM.
AND THEY CAN TURN AROUND AND SELL IT AS A FARM, AS A FARM STAND WHEN THEY DECIDE TO SELL IT.
IT IS JUST, THEY CAN'T DEVELOP IT INTO HOUSES OR ANY OTHER LAND USE THAT.
WHEN THE COUNTY'S INVOLVED, THAT'S TYPICALLY WHAT TENDS TO HAPPEN TO IT.
BUT AGAIN, THAT'S A RIVER OR THAT'S A BRIDGE TO CROSS LATER.
SO IS THERE ANY DANGER IN SAYING ABSOLUTELY NO.
BECAUSE HE STILL HAS HIS PROPERTY RIGHTS WITH THE R ONE ZONING IN THE S AND HE LIVES ON THE PROPERTY.
AND HE WILL STAY THERE UNTIL YOU CAN'T LIVE THERE ANYMORE.
UH, AGAIN, IT DEPENDS ON HOW, WHO AND HOW IT'S PRESERVED.
IF THE TOWNSHIP BUYS IT OUTRIGHT, I THINK WE'RE LOOKING TO GET OUT OF THE, THE POSITION OF HAVING LIFE LEASES.
UM, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF LONG BRIDGE PIKE OR A COUPLE ALONG HERE, THE, THE, THE JOYCE PROPERTY.
AND GENERALLY THEY'RE OKAY, BUT THE TOWNSHIP'S NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF BEING LANDLORDS.
AND WE DON'T WANT TO BE IN THAT BUSINESS.
SO I DON'T THINK THE TOWNSHIP WOULD EVER DO A LIFE LEASE AGAIN.
WOULD WE BUY IT OUTRIGHT FROM HIM? IF WE HAD THE MONEY AND HE WAS MOVING OUT, MAYBE WOULDN'T SURPRISE HIM.
LET ME GIVE YOU A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
YOU MENTIONED PLANTING TREES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
TO BRING IT BACK TO ITS NATURAL.
THERE WAS A MEAT PACKING PLANT, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, RIGHT ALONG THE FRENCH CREEK.
IF THE FRENCH CREEK IS ONE OF THE HIGHEST LEVEL, UH, STREAMS IN THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA.
SO RIGHT OFF OF PU TOWN ROAD AND UH, I THINK IT'S HOLLOW ROAD.
WELL, THE COUNTY WAS INVOLVED.
THEY PLANTED ALL KINDS OF TREES IN THERE.
THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A HUNDRED, 150 TREES AND SOME RARE SPECIES KNOW LESS.
YOU CAN LIE THERE TODAY I THINK THEY'RE ALL DEAD, YOU KNOW, SO, I MEAN, SOMEBODY'S NOT OUT THERE WATERING.
IT'S NOT LIKE IN YOUR BACKYARD, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? WELL, WE, WE, WE EVEN HAVE THE SAME ISSUE WITH
[01:05:01]
THE HESH PRESERVE.IT IS NOT THAT WE TREES GET OLD.
I MEAN, MY DEVELOPMENT REMOVED A BUNCH OF TREES THIS YEAR BECAUSE THEY GOT OLD.
CLEAN ONE RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE, BUT THEY'VE REPLANTED, SO THAT'S ALL RIGHT.
THIS IS GETTING LONGER THAN I INTENDED IT TO BE.
THIS IS LONGFORD ROAD THAT, THAT NIKKI JUST MENTIONED.
WHY DOES IT DO THAT TO ME? EVERY SINGLE, UM, IT'S OWNED BY AUDUBON.
IT'S NEAR ONE OF OUR MOST FAMOUS RESIDENCE.
SO
YOU'RE PAYING ME A COMPLIMENT NOW.
IS THERE A STAR THERE, JOHN? I MEAN, THAT'S HOW LITTLE STAR POWER THERE IS THERE
I TOLD 'EM AT THE TIME THAT I THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS AN EXCEPTIONALLY BAD IDEA.
UM, THIS IS ONE I I SORT OF THINK MAYBE WE JUST SORT OF SAY WE UNDERSTAND IT CAN BE DEVELOPED.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY, FROM MY OPINION, ANY DESIRE TO CHANGE IT FROM AN INDUSTRIAL USE.
UM, IF IT WAS TO REDEVELOP, IF IT WAS TO GO RESIDENTIAL, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE ONE OF THE LAST LARGE PARCELS THAT WOULD BE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED MARKET RATE HOUSING.
IF, IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO.
MY GUESS IS LIKE ANY OTHER DEVELOPER, THEY WOULD WANNA DO SOME SORT OF DENSITY, WHETHER THAT'S TOWNHOUSES OR MULTIFAMILY.
THERE'S SOME INFRASTRUCTURE ISSUES HERE.
LONGFORD ROAD HAS A, UM, RATHER LARGE HILL AND DECLINE WHERE SOME RIVER TRACKS GO OVER.
THERE'S A CREEK THAT RUNS THROUGH IT.
IT'S NOT AN EASY PARCEL TO DEVELOP, BUT IT, I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK IT IS AS DIFFICULT AS SOME OF THE OTHERS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT.
AND AGAIN, IF THE QUESTION BOILS DOWN TO IS THIS SOMETHING WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE THE REDEVELOPMENT OR THE DEVELOPMENT OF OR SOMETHING THAT WE JUST, LET'S JUST SORT OF SEE WHAT HAPPENS AND NOT CHANGE ANYTHING, BUT UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS POTENTIALLY A DEVELOPABLE, ONE OF THE LAST DEVELOPABLE PARCELS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
LARGE PARCELS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
JEFF, DID YOU SAY THIS IS CURRENTLY IN INDUSTRIAL? YES.
CURRENTLY INDUSTRIALLY ZONED, I MEAN, I WOULD HATE TO SEE THIS TURN INTO SOMETHING LIKE PROVIDENCE BUSINESS PARK.
WHERE IS LONGFORD ROAD? IS IT, IS IT ON THE LEFT? THE LEFT SIDE GOING UP? YEAH.
RIGHT BEFORE YOU GET TO THE DOG PARK.
SO YOU GO THAT'S A RECYCLE CENTER DOWN IN THERE? YES.
THERE'S LIKE A LITTLE HUNTING TRACK.
THERE'S, THIS IS, THIS IS LONGFORD ROAD RIGHT HERE.
AND THIS IS THE RECYCLING RECYCLING CENTER.
IT'S NOT THAT GREEN RIGHT NOW.
SO AGAIN, IT IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME SLOPE ISSUES THERE.
THERE'S A LOT OF ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES THAT WOULD COME TO THIS.
IT WOULD NOT BE THE EASIEST PARCEL TO DEVELOP, BUT IT IS A LARGER PARCEL.
AND YOU GOT INDUSTRIAL NOT TOO FAR AWAY.
YOU HAVE HAD SOME RESIDENTIAL PACKING.
WELL, ALL THE PINK IS INDUSTRIAL.
ALL THE PINK IS, IS AN INDUSTRIAL EXISTING LAND USE BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE GLOBAL PACKAGING DOWN BELOW IT.
AND PROVIDENCE BUSINESS PARK ONE TO THE LEFT OF IT.
DOES SEWER RUN DOWN LONGFORD? BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE ON I DOES WHAT RUN DOWN LONGFORD SEWER.
BUT YOU'RE, I WOULD, I WOULD ASSUME ON RIGHT NEXT TO THE WHITE IN THE NECK ON THE, THE CUL-DE-SAC.
I WOULD ASSUME IT'S DOWN LEAST TO AT LEAST WE HAVE WELL THOUGH.
I WAS GONNA SAY, YEAH, IN THE FRONT YARDS, MAYBE THE RECOMMENDATION SHOULD BE DUE TO THE CONSTRAINED ENVIRONMENTAL NATURE OF IT.
AND INDUSTRIAL USE ISN'T THE BEST USE FOR THE PROPERTY, BUT SOME LOW IMPACTS RESIDENTIAL.
I DON'T KNOW IF I WANT TO COMMIT TO RESIDENTIAL, BUT WE, I AGAIN, I GUESS THAT'S YOUR CALL.
LOW IMPACT, LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL THROUGH HERE MIGHT BE A VIABLE FUTURE LAND USE.
[01:10:01]
IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE? WHAT'S THAT? OH, SEWER RUNS DOWN THERE.I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT LIKE HOW MUCH OF A LOT YOU NEED IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE ONSITE.
OURS ARE ALL THREE QUARTER TO ONE ACRE.
I THINK IF IT IS WELL AND SEPTIC, IT HAS TO BE.
I REMEMBER, I REMEMBER BILL DINGMAN TOLD ME MY CUL-DE-SAC, NUMEROUS DEVELOPERS CAME IN ON THAT PARCEL AND THEY COULDN'T MAKE IT WORK 'CAUSE IT WAS TOO WET.
REALLY? AND IT'S ONLY WETTER DOWN CLOSER TO THE MM-HMM.
OH, BECAUSE THAT'S DOWNHILL FROM THAT STREET.
IS THIS SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER ELEVATION THAN DOWN TO THE INDUSTRIAL SOUTH OR SO ABOUT THE SAME, UM, A LITTLE BIT HIGHER.
THERE'S A, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A RISE IN, UH, LONGFORD.
YOU DROP DOWN TO THE OLD RIGHT TRACK AND THEN APART AND THE TRACKS AREN'T USED.
IN
I GUESS THE QUESTION DO, DO WE EVEN AGREE THAT THERE SHOULD BE DEVELOPMENT THERE AND THINKING ABOUT THE WATER, THE CREEP BEING UPHILL FROM THE FACT THAT THEY HAD TROUBLE IN JOE'S NEIGHBORHOOD MAKING IT WORK? MAYBE THAT PUTS US BETWEEN A ROCK AND A WHAT? THAT'S FINE.
YOU GONNA SAY
THAT'S GETTING QUOTED IN A MINUTE.
IT'S NOT A FUTURE DOG PARK SPACE.
HEY, JUST JEFF, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, THE SMALLER WHITE PARCEL OVER ON EGYPT AND LONGFORD, HAS ANYBODY EVER COME FORWARD WITH THAT PARCEL? NO.
I, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE A, SUCH A PRO A GREAT LOCATION.
THAT ONE HAS DONE, I ACTUALLY REACHED OUT TO THE OWNERS AND THEY DID NOT RESPOND.
SO ARE THEY LOCAL? UM, YEAH, THAT ONE HAS BACK WITH ME.
AND I CHECKED WITH BRIAN ON IT AND I ASKED LEE ABOUT IT.
HE SAID, ALL OF ALL OF US, NONE OF US HAVE EVER BEEN APPROACHED ABOUT THAT PARCEL.
IT'S THE INTERSECTION'S ALREADY IMPROVED.
IT'S GOTTA HAVE WATER AND SEWER.
NOT THAT I'M GONNA ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT, BUT THAT'S ONE THAT, I MEAN, NOW THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT PARTIAL, I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S ONE THAT WE COULD PUT IN THE, IN THE, IN THE RECOMMENDATIONS TO SORT OF, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOME HIGHER DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO MAKE THE CASE SOMEWHERE IN HERE FOR SOME HIGHER DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, MAYBE THAT BECOMES THE CORNER.
MAYBE YOU PUT THAT AT R THREE, R FOUR AND SAY, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S GOT THE, IT IS IN THE AREA THAT COULD BE IMPROVED TO DO THAT.
AT LEAST THAT'LL ELICIT A RESPONSE FROM OWNERS.
UM, MY ONLY COMMENT ABOUT MAKING THAT A HIGH DENSITY ISSUE IS THAT INTERSECTION AGENT AND, UH, LONGFORD IS A EXTREMELY BUSY INTERSECTION AS JOE WELL KNOWS, UH, THAT'S NO TRUCKS ALLOWED.
I MEAN, THERE'D HAVE TO BE SOME MAJOR ROAD, UH, ACTIVITY TO MAKE THAT, YOU KNOW, HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, I MEAN SINGLE HOMES, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT WOULD BE FINE AS AN R ONE KIND OF, OR R TWO.
I DON'T, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE REAL DISTINCTION THERE IS, BUT I THINK YEAH, THAT WHOLE INTERSECTION IS A, IS A MAJOR PROBLEM.
NOT A MAJOR PROBLEM, BUT A HIGH TRAFFIC AREA.
AND SO TO BUILD ANY DENSITY IN THERE WOULD BE DIFFICULT.
SO IS IT NO TRUCKS ALLOWED NORTH OF, UM, EGYPT? YES.
SO I WAS GONNA SAY FERGUSON NOT SUPER STRONG ENFORCEMENT ON THAT.
HOW BIG IS THAT, DO YOU THINK? THAT ONE IS ABOUT 20 ACRES.
I THINK I LOST AND THAT'S, IT'S A DECENT SIZE.
WELL, WHY DON'T I WRITE SOME THINGS OUT FOR BOTH OF THESE AND WE WILL SEE WHAT YOU THINK.
I THINK I GOT THE FLAVOR OF HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT 'EM AND WE'LL, WE'LL SEE.
AND MR. PETERS WANTS FIVE STORY RESIDENTIAL.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M TAKING TO THIS
THERE'S A, A BLOCK OF PARCELS THAT IN THROUGH HERE, THE BRIDGE HOLLOW ROAD, THEY'RE THE HIGHEST OR THE HIGHEST POINT OF THE TOWNSHIP.
THERE'S DEVELOPMENT THAT'S BEEN ALL AROUND IT.
NOT THE EASIEST PARCELS TO DEVELOP.
I, I THINK TO GET THERE IS GONNA TAKE A PRETTY BIG ROAD CUT.
UM, BUT IT'S AN AREA THAT'S NOT DEVELOPED AND IT'S A LARGE BLOCK OF OPEN SPACE.
[01:15:01]
THE PLANNING COMMISSION FEELS COMFORTABLE, WE CAN RECOMMEND THAT THE TOWNSHIP LOOK INTO ACQUIRING SOME OF THIS OR PRESERVING IT OR, YOU KNOW, REQUIRING A CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT TO, TO HAVE AS MUCH OPEN SPACE IF DEVELOPMENT WERE TO OCCUR.I MEAN WHATEVER THE FLAVOR OF THE, WHATEVER THE, WHATEVER THE PLANNING COMMISSION THROUGH WANTS TO FAVORS IS HOW WE CAN APPROACH THIS.
AGAIN, IT'S, IT IS ZONE R ONE.
IT CAN STAY OUR ONE AND WE CAN JUST ENCOURAGE IT TO STAY THAT WAY AND DEVELOP AS MARKET FORCES DRIVE IT AND HOPE THAT WE GET AS MUCH OPEN SPACE AS WE CAN.
OR WE MAKE IT OVER CLEAN FOR, LET'S LOOK AT MAKING THE HOUSING MORE DENSE, BUT PRESERVING MORE OPEN SPACE, SMALLER LOT SINGLES, I GUESS.
YOU KNOW, SO ENCOURAGING SOMETHING LIKE THAT THERE, BUT HAVING A HIGHER PUSH TOWARDS, UM, OPEN SPACE.
COULD I MAKE A COMMENT? YES, YOU MAY.
I HAVE TO CAUTION THE TOWNSHIP WITH O OPEN SPACE WITH, I BELIEVE IT'S THE OLD AZEL PARCEL, THE BIGGEST PIECE THERE IN THE CENTER.
THERE IS ALED, ARS STATE CONTAMINATION.
AND I DON'T THINK THE TOWNSHIP WANTS TO BE INVOLVED WITH THAT BECAUSE I KNOW TO BROTHERS HAD LOOKED AT IT ONE TIME AND THEY WOULDN'T EVEN TOUCH IT.
I HAD HEARD AT ONE POINT IN TIME.
SO, SO AGAIN, HITTING THE THEME OF NONE OF THESE PARCEL ARE EASY TO DEVELOP.
AGAIN, DOES THE PLANNING COMMISSION WANT TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT, ENCOURAGE OPEN SPACE OR LET IT RIDE? SO THAT'S 46 ACRES.
MY UNDERSTANDING THAT, THAT IS A GROUP HOME AT THIS POINT.
SO WE'RE NOT TALKING A UM, YES.
I I THINK IT IS ALCOHOL REHABILITATION.
THE GENTLEMAN WHO OWNS THAT OWNS A FEW OF THEM ALONG EGYPT ROAD.
WE'VE HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM ABOUT THEM.
THEY'RE NOT, I'M NOT GETTING COMPLAINTS ABOUT THEM CLARIFYING THE LAW.
BUT IT IS A, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, IT IS A GROUP HOME THERE.
HE MAINTAINS IT WELL, I DON'T, AGAIN, DON'T HAVE ANY COMPLAINTS, BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING THE BE ALL END ALL OF LAND USES.
IF THERE WAS A FINANCIAL CRUNCH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THE PROPERTY COULD GO FOR SALE.
THE BIG ENOUGH, BIG ENOUGH OFFER, THE PROPERTY COULD GO.
I MEAN, IF BILL GATES HAD A HOUSE ON TOP OF THE HILL WOULD BE GREAT.
BUT, WELL, BASED ON WHAT WE'RE HEARING, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE DO NOTHING ON THIS FOR RIGHT NOW, SINCE IT'S ALREADY R ONE.
UM, IF IT'S GOT R STICK ON IT.
MAYBE IT DOES, MAYBE IT DOESN'T.
THERE COULD HAVE BEEN ORCHARDS, BUT A LOT TOWN ORCHARDS AT ONE TIME WAS ORCHARD.
PESTICIDES AND PESTICIDES TOO.
IT'S NOT, IF IT WERE INDUSTRIAL LAND AND IT WAS REALLY EXPENSIVE, YOU COULD BURY ALL THE ARSONS.
BUT, UM, IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE TO REMEDIATE ARSENIC.
IT'S FROM THAT STANDPOINT, YES.
IS THAT MORE THAN JUST PUTTING TWO FEET OF SOIL ON TOP OF IT? I I WOULDN'T KNOW.
WELL IT WAS A TOWN HOME DEVELOPMENT THAT I DID DOWN IN PHOENIXVILLE AND WE HAD A LOT OF ARSEN.
'CAUSE THEY MADE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET GRINDING WHEELS.
THE BULLDOZERS DOWN IN THE BOTTOM OF THAT HOLE, YOU HAD TO LOOK DOWN TO CEILING.
THAT'S HOW FAR DOWN THE, AND THEY PUSHED ALL THE SOIL AND THERE'S A PARKING LOT ON TOP OF IT.
THE UH, JUST TO THE NORTH OF IT, THERE'S A CUL-DE-SAC.
LOOKS LIKE THE ONLY WAY INTO THOSE RESIDENCE IS THROUGH THEIR PROPERTY.
YOU TALKING WHERE THIS BLUE DI IS RIGHT HERE? YEAH.
ACTUALLY THIS ROAD COMES OUT AND DOES CONNECT THERE.
IT'S JUST THE MAP ISN'T GREAT.
IT KIND OF LOOKS LIKE THAT THE, THE PROPERTY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAY HAVE SOLD THAT IN MASS OR SOMETHING.
WELL, I, I DON'T, I, THIS WAS A, THIS ORIGINALLY WAS A TRACK CALLED THE PEARSON TRACT WHERE, UM, THIS TOLL DEVELOPMENT IS, AND THEY DID A, UM, A FLEX LOTTING OPTION.
AND THIS PARCEL HERE, AND THIS PARCEL HERE, WERE PART OF THAT DEVELOPMENT.
THEIR DEED CERTIFIC IS EVER DEVELOPING.
IF YOU THIS PARCEL, THE LARGER GREEN PARCEL, YOU,
[01:20:01]
IF YOU'VE SEEN IT OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, IT WENT UP FOR AUCTION AND A, A FAMILY BOUGHT IT.THEY'VE ACTUALLY BROUGHT HORSES BACK, I THINK TO IT.
I THINK THERE'S HORSES, THERE HAVE STEERS THERE.
THEY, THE, THE WOMAN WHO, THE, THE FAMILY THAT BOUGHT IT, THE WOMAN REALLY WANTED TO LIVE ON A FARM AND, BUT THE HUSBAND REALLY WANTED TO LIVE NOT ON A, LIKE NOT OUT THERE ON A FARM.
I MEAN, THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK WITH THE HOUSE.
THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK WITH THE PROPERTY.
THE PROPERTY RIGHTS PORTRAYED FOR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN THIS DEVELOPMENT HERE.
NOW THIS PROPERTY, HE WAS ADAMANTLY AGAINST EVERYTHING HERE.
AND HE ACTUALLY, THE RIGHT OF WAY TO GET IN THERE HAD TO BE TAKEN FROM HIM AS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT.
SO, UM, BUT THAT, THAT'S HOW THAT OCCURRED.
I, AND I DON'T, I I KIND OF QUESTIONED THIS PIECE HERE BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE YOU COULD ACTUALLY HAVE A HOUSE THERE BECAUSE IT'S GOT A 50 FOOT ACCESS AND YOU, BUT I'VE NEVER LOOKED INTO THIS DEVELOPMENT TO SEE IF THIS IS A SUBDIVIDING PIECE.
THAT'S SOMETHING WE'D HAVE TO FIGURE OUT.
A LOT OF TIMES WITH THESE DEVELOPMENTS, THEY WOULD HAVE ONE LARGE LOT AND THEN A WHOLE BUNCH OF SMALL LOTS BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE A LOT AVERAGING AND YOU HAVE 15 ACRES AND THEN A WHOLE BUNCH OF, ONE WHOLE BUNCH OF HALF ACRES.
BUT WHEN YOU AVERAGE IT ALL OUT, IT WORKS OUT TO BE ONE ACRE PER LOT.
SO, AND, AND AGAIN, THIS ONE, OTHER THAN THE HOUSE ON TOP OF THE HILL THAT I, I DON'T KNOW MUCH ELSE ABOUT IT AND EITHER, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THESE HERE, I'VE NEVER BEEN APPROACHED ABOUT THEM.
IT'S A LITTLE AWKWARD 'CAUSE HOLLOW ROAD RUNS RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF IT.
I THINK THAT THERE'S A, I THINK THERE'S SOME SLOPE ISSUES ON THE SIDE.
AND THIS PIECE OVER HERE, I'M NOT, I AGAIN, I'M NOT REALLY SURE.
ALL OF THESE GREEN PIECES HERE ARE A PENDOT RIGHT OF WAY OR EASEMENT, DEPENDING ON WHAT TRANSLATION YOU GET FROM PENDOT THIS MONTH.
THEY UM, THEY SAY THEY DON'T OWN IT.
THEY ACTUALLY THINK THE DRUMMONDS STILL OWN IT.
BUT THEY TOOK IT, THEY TOOK THE GROUND AND THEY, THEY DID PAY FOR IT.
NOW THIS QUITE, QUITE A LONG TIME AGO.
BUT THEY, PENNDOT DOES OWN THAT, THOSE THAT RIGHT OF AWAY BECAUSE, AND THEY, THEY WERE GONNA BUILD A SPUR FROM RIGHT 4 22, 4 22 DOWN, 4 22 WHERE IT SPLITS IN OAKS OUT OVER TO PHOENIXVILLE.
IT WAS GONNA BE LIKE A, A BYPASS.
YOU HAVE TO GO OVER TO PHOENIXVILLE.
BUT WHAT HAPPENED, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS THE COUNTY OR, OR THE TWO COUNTIES, CHESTER COUNTY AND MONTGOMERY COUNTY DIDN'T GET ALONG.
NOW I KNOW OVER IN, IN THAT PART OF, IN THE PART OF, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SCHULL TOWNSHIP OR PHOENIXVILLE, BUT THE PART WHERE THE, THE, THE BYPASS WOULD LAND IS NO LONGER BILLABLE.
SO I'VE APPROACHED, I'VE APPROACHED PEN DON AND SAID, HEY, CAN WE GET THIS PROPERTY FROM YOU? IT WOULD BE GREAT.
THE TOWNSHIP WOULD LOVE TO MAINTAIN IT.
THEY SAY, OH NO, WE DON'T OWN IT.
IT IS, WE HAVE AN EASEMENT OVER IT, BUT WE DON'T OWN IT.
AND I, I DON'T KNOW, THAT WAS HOW IT ENDED.
AND I BEAT MY HEAD AGAINST THE WALL FOR AN HOUR AND THEN I LEFT IT AND DROPPED IT.
WELL, THE SPUR KIND OF WAS BACKBURNERED AND THEN YEARS AND DECADES LATER, THEN IT BECAME MORE OF AN ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY, AS WE ALL KNOW, BOB TURTLES AND WHATEVER ELSE MIGHT BE AROUND.
UM, BUT THAT'S WHY IT WAS NEVER COMPLETED BECAUSE THEY TOOK LAND LIKE ACROSS BLACKROCK, GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN TO OAKS WHERE 4 22 SPLITS.
THAT'S WHY THERE'S A SPLIT IN 4 22 WAS TO ACCOMMODATE THAT HIGHWAY.
PLUS THE ENGINEERING WAS WRONG.
SO THAT WAS ANOTHER CONDEMNATION.
THAT WAS TWO CONDEMNATIONS, ANOTHER PIECE OF GROUND MY FATHER HAD.
AND THEY HAD TO DO ANOTHER CONDEMNATION ON IT BECAUSE OF THAT, WHERE THEY BROUGHT 'EM THE SPRAY TOGETHER, THEY DIDN'T MATCH.
SO THEY HAD TO TAKE MORE GROUND.
SO LONG STORY SHORT, THAT'S PROPERTY THAT WE WOULD, AND IT IS GONNA GO IN THE COMP PLAN THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO PRESERVE IT.
JUST GENERALLY SAYING THAT LIKE THE PARCEL NEXT TO IT HERE WOULD OBVIOUSLY MAKE A NICE CHUNK.
THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES ASIDE.
I MEAN, BUT WE CAN, IF, IF IT IS YOUR FLAVOR, WE CAN CERTAINLY SAY JUST LEAVE IT ALONE AND KEEP IT R ONE, UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE'S ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS AND POSSIBLY SOME, SOME ECOLOGICAL ISSUES WITH, WITH THE PROPERTY.
SORT OF PUT THAT IN THERE THAT IF IT WERE TO DEVELOP, WE WOULD WANT TO, WE WOULD PREFER TO SEE MORE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT FOR THE PRESERVATION OF AS MUCH OPEN SPACE AS POSSIBLE.
IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST IS THE OAKS INTERCHANGE.
AND I MADE THE PLEA FOR THIS LAST TIME, AND I'M
[01:25:01]
STILL GONNA MAKE THE PLEA FOR IT IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT.I WOULD LIKE TO WRITE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THIS AREA TO SORT OF SEE IF WE COULD MOVE IT FROM A QUASI INDUSTRIAL SPACE WITH RETAIL AND SOME ACTIVE USES TO SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY MADE SOME SENSE.
IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
I'M NOT SURE QUITE HOW THE LANGUAGE IS GONNA GO, BUT THAT'S, THIS AREA IS JUST A HYBRID.
AND I, I GET IT FROM THE LANDOWNER'S PERSPECTIVE.
YOU KNOW, HE, HE CAN PLUG AND PLAY INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT FROM A TOWNSHIP STANDPOINT, IT IS, WE'RE CHASING TENANTS, WE'RE CHASING THIS, WE'RE CHASING THAT.
IF WE CAN MAKE IT EASIER ON ALL OF US AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MAKE, TO MOVE THE AREA FORWARD.
SO IT WASN'T THE FIRST THING YOU SAW AS YOU CAME INTO TOWNSHIP OF THE ATED BUILDING.
I CERTAINLY WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT.
SO IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE'LL EVER, WHICH ONE OF THE BUILDINGS ARE YOU CALLING? DILAPIDATED? ALL OF THEM.
TARGET, THE REST OF IT CAN GO.
YEAH, IT'S LOOK AND LOOK, I I HAVE TO GIVE THEM CREDIT REGENTS, THE REGAL THEATER CLOSED AND THEY CONVERTED IT TO, I MEAN, THEY OPENED IT BACK UP AS THEIR OWN THEATER.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PLACE IS.
LIKE, WHO KNOWS? MAYBE IT IS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S A LITTLE SKETCHY.
I I DON'T WANNA MAKE ANY JUDGMENT, BUT AT AT LEAST THEY'RE TRYING DOWN THERE.
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO PUSH A LITTLE HARDER AND SEE WHAT WE COULD DO AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO, TO HAVE SOME USES THAT AREN'T MY FEAR IS THAT BECAUSE FEDEX IS IN THERE NOW, THAT, THAT IT IS GONNA BECOME JUST A WAREHOUSE THAT THEY'RE GONNA TAKE OVER.
AND I DON'T, I KNOW THAT IT'S A VIABLE LAND USE, BUT I DON'T WANNA SEE THAT KIND OF TRAFFIC ON EGYPT ROAD.
I DON'T WANNA SEE AN AMAZON WAREHOUSE COMING HERE.
AGAIN, IT'S NOT THE WORST LAND USE IN THE WORLD, BUT IT IS JUST, I THINK THE SITE COULD BE SO MUCH MORE.
AND THEY'VE GOT SOME NICE NAMES IN THERE.
IF THEY WERE JUST REPOSITIONED AND STRAIGHTENED DOWN ROADS WERE BETTER AND YEAH, MAYBE ALL THE SIGNS HAD SOME LIKE, YOU KNOW, CONSISTENCY TO THEM.
I HAVE A STANDARD ANSWER FROM WHEN SOMEONE GOES, WELL I NEED A SIGN PERMIT.
I SAY, OKAY, SHOW ME EVERY SIGN IN THE PLACE TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE COMPLIANT.
I RARELY HEAR BACK FROM THEM, BUT, ALL RIGHT.
I'M GETTING THE SENSE OR I'M JUST GONNA TAKE THE SENSE THAT YOU WANT ME TO WRITE THIS AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO.
I THINK WE'VE MADE GREAT PROGRESS TONIGHT.
I'LL WRITE THAT UP AND PROBABLY IN APRIL WE'LL SIT DOWN AND TALK ABOUT IT.
AND ONCE WE SORT OF GET THROUGH THIS PORTION OF THE COMP PLAN, THE REST OF IT'S REALLY ADMINISTRATIVE.
THERE'S SOME TRAFFIC STUFF THAT WE'LL HAVE TO WRITE AND WE'LL HAVE TO GET YOUR APPROVAL ON.
BUT THE, THE BOARD'S EXPRESSED AN INTEREST TO ME THAT THEY REALLY WANT TO GET THIS APPROVED IN, IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING APPROVED BY JULY.
SO YOU'RE GONNA SEE MORE SECOND MEETINGS AND MORE OF THESE MEETINGS AND WE'RE GONNA GET THROUGH IT AND LANGUAGE TO REVIEW AND FINGERS TO POINT, THINGS LIKE THAT.
I KNOW THIS IS YOUR JOB, BUT YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB OF THIS.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
JOB.SO FOR THE NEXT MEETINGS, MARCH 6TH IS CANCELED BECAUSE JERRY IS THE ONLY ONE IN TOWN THAT'S, YOU CAN FIND SOMEWHERE TO GO.
JERRY, YOU SHOULD GO ON VACATION.
UM, MARK, WELL TAKE ALL THE PROXY VOTES.
JERRY, YOU CAN VOTE FOR EVERYBODY.
I THINK THEY'RE MOVING, THEY'RE STILL TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD.
WE MAY ALSO HAVE THE KLEIN ROAD SUBDIVISION.
THAT FINAL PLAN SEEMS TO BE MOVING A LITTLE FASTER ACTUALLY.
MAYBE THEY HAVE SOME WORK TO DO.
ALL OF THEM HAVE SOME WORK TO DO.
BUT, BUT I'M TELLING YOU THAT THE, THE, THE PROVINCETOWN RESIDENTS OF PROVINCETOWN CENTER AND KLEIN ROAD ARE THE TWO THAT ARE PROBABLY GONNA COME UP RELATIVELY SOON.
AND THEN 1 72 HOPWOOD ROAD AND
WE'LL FOLLOW ON THE HEELS OF THAT.
AFTER THAT, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A LOT QUEUED UP, SO WE'LL CONCENTRATE ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UM, ALSO ON THE 20TH WE'RE GONNA START TALKING BRIEF CODIFICATION.
I INTRODUCED YOU SORT OF LAST, AT THE LAST MEETING.
IT'S GONNA BE A LOT OF ADMINISTRATIVE STUFF, NOT A LOT OF STUFF THAT APPLIES TO US, BUT THIS IS A GOOD FORM TO SORT OF WALK THROUGH, WHETHER IT'S IN THE AUDIENCE OR WHETHER IT'S JUST YOU TO SORT OF WALK THROUGH WHAT WE DO.
AND THEN WE WILL, UH, WE MAY TAKE ONE MEETING AND MAYBE TAKE TWO TO DO THAT.
IT IS ON, IT IS SCHEDULED FOR THE APRIL 20TH PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA OR BOARD AGENDA.
SO WE'LL JUST NEED A RECOMMENDATION BY EITHER THE SECOND MARCH MEETING OR THE APRIL MEETING.
BUT WE'LL TACKLE THAT WHEN WE GET TO IT.
SO IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN JUST THE STEEP SLOPE THING AND WALKING YOU THROUGH IT.
AGAIN, VERY LITTLE ZONING, VERY LITTLE SUBDIVISION CHANGES.
AND I'M GONNA WALK THROUGH EVERYTHING JUST SO YOU GET A FLAVOR OF WHAT WE'VE DONE.
BUT IT, IT'LL GIVE YOU THE SENSE OF WHERE WE'RE AT.
[01:30:01]
THEN THE, UH, EAC MEETING'S GONNA BE MARCH 20TH.NEXT IF YOU WANNA COME TO IT, JEFF? UM, I'M HAVING SOME RESIDENTS.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S COMING FROM.
THERE'S SOME SPURIOUS REPORTS OUT THERE IN SOCIAL MEDIA ABOUT PARK HOUSE BEING QUOTE ON THE DOCKET MARCH 12TH.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHERE THIS IS COMING FROM AND HOW I CAN YES.
COMMUNICATE BACK TO MY FELLOW RESIDENTS ABOUT PARK HOUSE.
UM, HE'S THE ONE WHO POSTED THAT IS IS IT IS THE CON THE FIRST CONDITIONAL USE, THE OPENING OF THE CONDITIONAL USE HEARING IS SET FOR MARCH 12TH AT SIX O'CLOCK.
MARCH 12TH, SIX 30, BUT MARCH, NO, IT'S SIX.
IT IS THE OPENING OF THE CONDITIONAL USE FOR PARK HOUSE WILL START THAT DAY.
IT'S NOT GONNA FINISH THAT DAY.
THE BOARD APPOINTED US, UH, A HEARING MASTER THAT THE HEARING OFFICER, HEARING OFFICER FOR IT, UM, AT THEIR MEETING LAST NIGHT, THAT HEARING OFFICER WILL RUN THE HEARING AND WORK THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS.
THE BOARD WILL NOT BE SITTING HERE LISTENING TO IT.
IT'S GONNA BE THE HEARING OFFICER AND HE WILL RUN THE HEARING AS HE SEES FIT.
I DON'T, I KNOW THAT THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT, WELL, LET'S BLOCK OUT FOUR OR FIVE DAYS IN A ROW AND JUST BUS THROUGH IT OR MAYBE GOING THROUGH I, I DON'T KNOW.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT HE HAS TO SORT OF WORK OUT AT THAT FIRST MEETING, WHAT THE OFFICIAL AGENDA AND PROCESS IS GOING TO BE.
AND, AND JUST TO CLARIFY, HE DOESN'T DECIDE THE CASE, THE HEARING OFFICER HEARS THE EVIDENCE, MAKES A SERIES OF RECOMMENDED FINDINGS BACK TO THE SUPERVISORS AND THEN THEY VOTE HAVING NEVER BEEN IN ONE OF THESE HEARINGS, IS DO THEY EVER HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS? YEAH.
YEAH, YOU, YOU MAY GET A NOTIFICATION, I'M NOT SURE HOW CLOSE YOU LIVE IN TERMS OF LINEAR FEET TO THE PARKHOUSE PROJECT.
YOU MAY GET A, UM, A NOTIFICATION OF THE HEARING IN THE NEXT WEEK OR SO.
UM, AND THEN ALSO IF YOU WANTED TO PUT YOURSELF UP FOR STANDING, I DON'T KNOW THE SPECIFIC RULES AND IT DEPENDS ON THE PROCESS, BUT IF YOU'RE WITHIN A CERTAIN DISTANCE, YOU CAN PUT YOURSELF UP AND HAVE STANDING AND THAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO I THINK CROSS EXAMINE THE WITNESSES AND IT GIVES YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN JUST MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT.
SO IF, IF I'M WRONG, JOE WILL CORRECT ME.
BUT YEAH, MR. KK IS THE ONE WHO POSTED THAT AND FIRST, ACTUALLY LAST NIGHT AT 10 30 I NOTICED IT AND HE HAD THE, THE TIME WRONG.
I SENT HIM A MESSAGE ON FACEBOOK AND CORRECTED HIM.
SO IS AT 10 30 I WAS LOOKING AT IT AT 10 30.
I WAS LOOKING AT IT AT 10 30 WHEN I WAS HOME AFTER OUR LONG MEETING LAST NIGHT.
GIN TO, UM, LOOKING TO SEE MY
WHAT I CALL ANYTHING, ANYBODY.
THANKS FOR PUTTING UP WITH ME.
WE COVERED A LOT OF GROUND, ACTUALLY.
WE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS TONIGHT.
UH, ANYTHING FROM ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY.