[00:00:02]
[CALL TO ORDER]
I'M GONNA CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER.UM, WELCOME EVERYBODY TO THE UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP BOARD OF SUPERVISORS REGULAR MEETING TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 20TH.
LET'S STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
[MOTION TO APPROVE BOARD AGENDA]
ITEM UP IS THE, UH, APPROVAL OF THE BOARD AGENDA.CAN I HAVE A MOTION? I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE TONIGHT'S BOARD AGENDA.
SO BEFORE PUBLIC COMMENT, I'M JUST GONNA READ THROUGH A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.
AND I WANTED TO ADDRESS, UH, OR ISABEL PARKHOUSE ON JANUARY 22ND, 2024, THE DEVELOPER WAR FOR HOLDING OFFICIALLY ACTIVATED ITS CONDITIONAL USE APPLICATION FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF 1,203 SENIOR HOUSING FROM 186 ACRE PARCEL.
THE TOWNSHIP HAS 60 DAYS IN WHICH TO HOLD THE FIRST CONDITIONAL USE HEARING.
BECAUSE OF THE UNIQUE NATURE OF THE CONDITIONAL USE HEARING.
STATE LAW REQUIRES ANY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO ACT AS IMPARTIAL JUDGES WHEN RECEIVING TESTIMONY.
IN OTHER WORDS, WE CANNOT BE ADVOCATES FOR OR AGAINST A PART, A PARTICULAR CONDITIONAL USE PROPOSAL, NOR CAN WE EVEN GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF PARTIALITY.
DOING SO WOULD JEOPARDIZE THE TOWNSHIP'S LEGAL STANDING IN THIS CASE WHERE THERE WOULD EVER GO TO APPEAL TO ADDRESS THIS POTENTIAL CONFLICT.
HOWEVER, THE STATE LAW DOES PERMIT GOVERNING BODY TO APPOINT A SEPARATE COUNSEL AND A HEARING OFFICER THAT WOULD ATTEND AND CONDUCT WHAT MAY BE A LENGTHY SERIES OF CONDITIONAL USE HEARINGS AND REPRESENT THE BOARD THROUGHOUT THE CONDITIONAL USE HEARING PROCESS.
THIS IS ONE OF THE ITEMS ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA.
A SECOND ITEM WILL BE THE APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COUNSEL, REPRESENT THE INTEREST OF THE UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO IT'S TWO SEPARATE, UH, MOTIONS TO, UH, PRESENT EVIDENCE IN SUPPORT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO ENGAGE EXPERT WITNESSES WHEN NEEDED AND TO REPRESENT THE ORDINANCE IN ANY SUBSEQUENT APPEAL.
A THIRD ITEM WILL BE THE SETTING OF THE FIRST CONDITIONAL USE HEARING.
THE SPECIAL COUNSEL HEARING OFFICER WILL COORDINATE WITH THE TOWNSHIP ADMINISTRATION THE SCHEDULING OF ALL FUTURE CONDITIONAL USE HEARINGS.
WE HAVE ASKED THE SPECIAL COUNSEL TO CONVENE THESE HEARINGS AFTER REGULAR WORKING HOURS AND TO DO THEIR BEST TO CONVENE THEM OVER A PERIOD OF WEEKS RATHER THAN MONTHS TO HELP STREAMLINE THE TIME AND EXPENSE.
ON A FINAL NOTE, I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR SOLICITOR, JOE BRESNAN, WHO GOT US TO THIS POINT, AND LUCKY YOU, YOU'RE OFF THE HOOK.
SO, WITH THAT SAID, WE'RE GONNA GO INTO PUBLIC COMMENT.
ONE OTHER THING I WANNA SAY, WE ALL RECEIVED THE PARK FRIENDS OF PARKHOUSE PACKET.
AND WE KNOW YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES, BUT WE'RE GONNA PUT THE WHOLE THING INTO THE, UM, MINUTES SO THAT ANYBODY CAN READ THROUGH THE WHOLE THING.
[PUBLIC COMMENT]
OKAY.SO PUBLIC COMMENTS, SO EVERYONE KNOWS THE RULES.
YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, THREE MINUTES.
SO ANYBODY WHO PUBLIC COMMENTS.
TORY BRIGHT, UH, 3 6 4 VISTA DRIVE.
AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK THIS EVENING.
UH, AGAIN, UH, IN THE SPIRIT OF FULL TRANSPARENCY, UH, I'M REPRESENTING THE PARK HOUSE GROUP.
UM, WE WISH TO SHARE WITH THE UPPER PROVINCE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, IF NOT ALREADY KNOWN, UH, THAT THE DEVELOPER DID REACH OUT TO US ON FEBRUARY 13TH, UH, DIRECTLY FROM MR. MULLENS, UH, INDICATED INDICATING, UH, THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A MEETING, A PRIVATE MEETING WITH MR. GARY BERMAN AND 10 OF THE PARK HOUSE FRIENDS, UH, ALONG WITH, UH, RENIE SATANI, WHO IS OF NVR HOMES, WHO IS APPARENTLY THE PURCHASER OF THE PROPERTY.
UH, THE REQUEST WAS, UH, INDICATING THIS WOULD NOT BE A MEETING TO DISCUSS ANY, ANY OF THE CURRENT CONTRACT BETWEEN LAWYERS FOR HOLDINGS AND NVR, THE PREVIOUS PARK HOUSE, PARK HOUSE OWNERSHIP GROUP, THE PARK HOUSE HISTORY, OR THE TESTIMONY THAT WE PROPOSED PRESENT.
BUT RATHER, WE WOULD BE MEETING WITH MR. GARY BERMAN AND ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS DIRECTLY WITH THE NEIGHBORS OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT CONCERNS.
THE EMAIL FURTHER GOES ON TO STATE THAT THE TOWNSHIP BUILDING WOULD BE THE
[00:05:01]
MEETING LOCATION.WE'D ASK THAT YOU NOT BRING MORE THAN 10 PEOPLE IN ORDER TO MAKE IT A MEANINGFUL PERSONAL AND OFF THE RECORD MEETING.
UH, WE BELIEVE THAT THE 2200 PLUS PARKHOUSE FRIENDS COMMUNITY WOULD ALSO BE INTERESTED IN THIS OFF THE RECORD MEETING, UH, TO DISCUSS THEIR CONCERNS AND ASK QUESTIONS OF RE FOR HOLDINGS.
HOWEVER, THAT WAS NOT OFFERED.
UH, I HAVE, UH, SINCE RESPONDED TO MR. MULLEN'S REQUEST THAT WE WILL BE TAKING THIS, UH, REQUEST UNDER CONSIDERATION AND GUIDANCE, UH, AND WE'LL BE RESPONDING WITHIN THE COMING WEEKS.
OUR CONCERN, OBVIOUSLY, IS THAT NOW BEING, JUST GIVEN THE INFORMATION TONIGHT, WHICH IS FEBRUARY 20TH, UH, THAT THE DEVELOP THE DEVELOPER DID APPLY FOR CONDITIONAL USE ON JANUARY 22ND.
WAS THAT INFORMATION POSTED ON THE WEBSITE? NO, IT DIDN'T.
IT, THEY, THEY WITHDREW THEIR TIME EXTENSION.
THEY DIDN'T FILE A NEW APPLICATION.
THEY SAID THEY WANTED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE, THEY HAD HAD, THEY HAD CREATED AN OPEN-ENDED TIME EXTENSION OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST YEAR.
AND THEN THEY SENT THE LETTER TO SAY, LET PLEASE GO.
WE'RE WE'RE REVOKING THE OPEN-ENDED TIME EXTENSION.
YOU NOW HAVE THE 60 DAYS THAT YOU HAVE BY LAW TO SCHEDULE A HEARING.
IT'S NOT A NEW, THEY DIDN'T FILE A NEW APPLICATION.
THEY DIDN'T FILE A NEW APPLICATION, BUT THE TOWNSHIP WAS NOTIFIED ON JANUARY 22ND.
WELL, THAT WAS ABOUT THE DATE I, I'LL TAKE THE WORD FOR IT.
IT WAS, HE SENT A LETTER AROUND THEN.
SO IS THAT 60 DAYS PUBLIC NOTICE? THAT DOESN'T CONSTITUTE THE PUBLIC NOTICE THAT THAT HEARING HAS TO BE SCHEDULED WITHIN 60 DAYS OF PUBLICLY ADVERTISED.
SO, SO AGAIN, UM, THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT.
UM, OUR CONCERN IS THAT THERE IS, AS OF THIS MEETING, NO APPOINTED LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE THAT WOULD BE CURRENTLY ASSIGNED AS A TOWNSHIP SOLICITOR OR, UH, ANY SPECIAL COUNSEL RELATED TO THE PARKHOUSE CONDITIONAL USE HEARING, ALTHOUGH WE KNOW THIS IS GONNA OCCUR TONIGHT.
UM, I THINK OUR CONCERN ABOUT MEETING WITH THE, UH, DEVELOPER IS THAT WE ARE NOT PRIVY TO ANY OF THE PREVIOUS TOWNSHIP CONVERSATIONS WITH THAT DEVELOPER.
UH, WHEN OF COURSE, WE DO KNOW FROM OUR LAST MEETING THAT THOSE WERE OCCURRING AND THAT, UH, ANY POTENTIAL MEETINGS COULD JEOPARDIZE THE FUTURE POSITION IN DEFENDING THE ZONING AND THE CONTEXT OF THE CURRENT PENDING CONDITIONAL USE LITIGATION OR HEARING.
WE'VE ASKED MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE TIMES THAT WE WOULD LIKE FOR DISCUSSIONS TO BE OPEN AND TRANSPARENT.
AND AGAIN, IF LAWYERS FOR HOLDINGS IS WATCHING THIS EVENING, WE WOULD RECOMMEND HAVING A WEBINAR OR SOME KIND OF A PRESENTATION IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE CITIZENS COMMUNITY TO ANSWER SOME OF THE QUESTIONS OR SOME KIND OF A DIALOGUE THAT WOULD BE MORE THAN 10 INDIVIDUALS.
UM, AGAIN, WE SUPPORT THE, THE TOWNSHIP IN YOUR, UH, THE, THE ZONING, UH, OPPOSITION AT THE LAST MEETING.
I THINK WE'VE JUST GOTTEN AN ANSWER TO THE ROYERS FOR HOLDINGS, UH, HAS FILED FOR CONDITIONAL USE HEARING, AND, UH, THEY WOULD LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT.
UM, WE DID ASK, THOUGH THAT A SPECIAL COUNSEL WOULD BE CONSIDERED.
I KNOW THAT AT THE POINT THAT, UH, THAT OBVIOUSLY THIS IS MOVING FORWARD AS QUICKLY AS IT WILL BE, WE ARE GONNA ASK FOR CITIZENS TO CONTRIBUTE TO SOME OF THE PARK HOUSE FRIENDS LEGAL, UH, FUND AT THIS POINT IN TIME BECAUSE WE WOULD ASK TO HAVE STANDING AT A CONDITIONAL USE HEARING.
UM, AND, UH, SINCE WE HAVE, UH, MADE RECOMMENDATION THAT TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, SUPERVISORS THAT A SPECIAL COUNSEL, UH, FROM TIMOTHY KNOX, CATHERINE HARPER BE APPOINTED, UH, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS NOT WHO'S BEING RECOMMENDED FOR SPECIAL COUNSEL TONIGHT.
UM, CONSIDERING THE VARIOUS ISSUES THAT PLAY INTO THIS PROPOSAL AND, UH, THE, UH, AMOUNT OF INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE FOUND, UM, OVER THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS, WE'VE COMPILED A RESPONSE TO BOTH, UH, THE SOLICITOR'S OPINION, THE TOWNSHIP, UH, COMMENTS, UH, THE COMMENTS ON THE WAR SESTER DECISION.
UM, WE DEEPLY ARE CONCERNED THAT THE PROPOSAL IS SERIOUSLY IN CONFLICT WITH THE ZONING CODE AS IT PERTAINS TO THE PARKHOUSE CODES.
WE WILL, WE DO HAVE INFORMATION THAT WAS PRESENTED, THE ADDENDUM TO THE ADMIT TO THE, UH, SUPERVISORS, UM, AS TO WHY WE BELIEVE THIS.
BUT WE WILL BE ASKING FOR STANDING.
HI, UH, SHAWNA WORK 1 21 HOPWOOD ROAD.
UM, WE ATTENDED THE, UM, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, UH, IN REFERENCE TO THE, THE ZONING CHANGES, UM,
[00:10:01]
BACK IN EARLY FE FEBRUARY IN REFERENCE TO STEEP SLOPE.UM, OURS IS MORE SPECIFICALLY WITH THE, THE ONE, UH, THE HOPWOOD ROAD PROJECT AND THE STEEP SLOPE AND THE CHANGES THAT WILL BE MADE TO THE ZONING.
HOWEVER, IT ALSO APPLIES TO, UH, THE PROJECT THAT THEY WAS JUST, UH, SPEAKING ABOUT.
UM, WERE YOU, ARE YOU GUYS AWARE OF THE FACT THAT MONTGOMERY COUNTY, UH, JUST DESIGNATED A MILLION DOLLAR GRANT TO LAUNCH A, UH, PER AND WATERSHED INITIATIVE BECAUSE THE PROBLEM IS SO BAD? UM, I HOPE THAT NO DECISIONS ARE BEING MADE ON EITHER PROJECT UNTIL THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO GET UP AND RUNNING, BECAUSE IT DIRECTLY AFFECTS THE STEEP SLOPE, UM, SPECIFICALLY, UH, WAY OVER, UH, 25, UH, DEGREES IN SOME AREAS ON THE HOPWOOD ROAD PROJECT.
AND WE HAVE TO, AS A REGION, UH, WITH THE PERDUE WATERSHED, DEVELOP SOME KIND OF A PLAN BEFORE WE MAKE MATTERS WORSE.
HI, BLAKE WELLING, 1 35 BENNINGTON ROAD.
FIRST, A HUGE THANK YOU TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS FOR UNANIMOUSLY AGREEING LAST MONTH TO, UH, UH, NOT SEND THE PROPOSED ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
THAT PROPOSAL WAS CLEARLY NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CITIZENS.
SO I UNDERSTAND NOW THAT ROYERSFORD HOLDINGS WILL BE, UH, PURSUING A CONDITIONAL USE HEARING.
I INTEND TO REQUEST PARTY STATUS IN THAT CONDITIONAL USE HEARING ON THE BASIS THAT I OWN PROPERTY AS A MEMBER OF THE RIVERSIDE PROVIDENCE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, WHICH ABUTS THE APPLICANT'S PROPERTY.
I ALSO UNDERSTAND THE BOARD AS GOVERNING BODY WILL NEED TO PROVIDE FORMS AVAILABLE TO ME AND ANY OTHER ORGANIZATIONS OR PERSONS THAT WISH TO BE CONSIDERED AS PARTIES TO THE HEARING.
VERSE SECTION 9 0 8 3 OF PENNSYLVANIA MUNICIPALITIES PLANNING CODE.
I LOOK FORWARD TO THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT EVIDENCE THAT THERE ARE SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE REGISTER DECISION AND THE ROYERSFORD HOLDINGS CASE.
FOR EXAMPLE, I MAY HIGHLIGHT THE NOTABLE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE WORKS SISTER ORDINANCE AND UPPER PROVIDENCES.
I ALSO LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING TO GAUGE ON THIS MATTER OF GREAT IMPORTANCE TO THE OVER 2200 MEMBERS OF PARK AS FRIENDS AND THE ENTIRE TOWNSHIP.
JAMES HOFFMAN, 1199 SECOND AVENUE ORFORD.
UM, MS. STEIN, CAN I ASK YOU TO RE-READ A BRIEF SECTION OF THAT STATEMENT THAT YOU READ REGARDING YOUR NEUTRALITY AND IT, AND DEALING WITH THIS AT, IN A FASHION THAT YOU HAVE TO BE UNBIASED? UM, OKAY.
BECAUSE OF THE UNIQUE NATURE OF THE CONDITIONAL USE HERE IN THE STATE LAW REQUIRES ANY BOARD SUPERVISORS TO ACT AS IMPARTIAL JUDGES WHEN RECEIVING TESTIMONY.
IN OTHER WORDS, WE CANNOT BE ADVOCATES FOR OR AGAINST A CONDITIONAL, A PARTICULAR CONDITIONAL USE PROPOSAL, NOR CAN WE EVEN GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF IMPARTIALITY DOING SO WOULD JEOPARDIZES, TOWNSHIP'S, LEGAL STANDING IF THIS CASE WERE EVER TO GO TO APPEAL? OKAY.
MY QUESTION IS, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU, AS FAR AS I KNOW, AND I MAY BE WRONG, SO I'M GOING TOIN THAT AND SAY MAJORITY OF YOU WHEN YOU RAN FOR ELECTION, HAD A BIASED OPINION SAYING, ASKING THE RESIDENTS FOR VOTES, SAYING PUBLICLY THAT YOU ARE AGAINST THIS PARKHOUSE PROJECT.
AM I NOT CLEAR WITH THAT? SO DOES THAT NOT IMMEDIATELY CREATE A POSITION OF BIAS OF THIS BOARD THAT'S ACTUALLY ADDRESSED IN THE SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP CODE? UH, PEOPLE ARE NOT EXCLUDED FROM VOTING ON THINGS BASED ON COMMENTS THAT THEY MADE AND OPINIONS THAT THEY OFFERED WHILE THEY WERE RUNNING FOR OFFICE.
SO, SO BASICALLY THEY CAN SAY WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THEY WANT THEIR VOTES, BUT WHEN IT COMES TIME TO THEIR ACTIONS, WHETHER OR NOT THOSE ACTIONS ARE LEGAL WILL DON'T MATTER.
IF YOU WANT TO CHALLENGE THEM ON SOMETHING THAT THEY SAID PREVIOUSLY, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO THAT, BUT IT'S NOT A LEGAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
I, I THINK IT IS LEGAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN, IN THE VOTER'S EYES BECAUSE THEY WERE TOLD THAT THEY WERE AGAINST IT.
SO THAT, THAT PUTS 'EM IN A POSITION OF BIAS.
[00:15:07]
UM, THE HEARING THE OTHER DAY, UM, WHERE I BLEW UP, UM, JOE HANEY CAME UP HERE AND MADE COMMENTS PRO TOWARDS ALLOWING THIS DEVELOPMENT TO GO THROUGH IN SOME FAKE SHAPE FASHION OF FORM.FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DO NOT KNOW, MR. HANEY IS THE HUSBAND OF HELENE CAL, AND HE IS ALSO THE HEAD OF THE DEMOCRATIC COMMITTEE FOR THIS TOWNSHIP ALSO PRESENTING A BIAS.
ANYONE ELSE? GEORGE MALEEK 180 3 SPARES LANE MONTCLAIR.
I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS, UH, WHAT IS GONNA BE PROPOSED TONIGHT FOR THE, THE ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT FOR STEEP SLOPES.
UM, SIR, NOT TO INTERRUPT YOU, BUT THERE'S GONNA BE A HEARING ON THAT, SO YOU MIGHT WANT TO MAKE YOUR COMMENTS A PART OF THE RECORD.
WELL, BUT I WANNA MAKE A COMMENT AS TO, THERE WERE TWO HEARINGS AND TWO EXEMPTIONS TO THIS PARTICULAR ORDINANCE.
ONE FOR LOVER'S LANE PROJECT AND ONE FOR AMELIA STREET, KNOWN THAT THIS WAS COMING UP AND THAT THIS IS ACROSS THE COUNTY, IF NOT THE STATE.
WHY WERE THOSE EXEMPTIONS MADE PRIOR TO THIS? WE COULD EXPLAIN THAT DURING THE HEARING, SIR.
THEY PREDATED THE NEW ORDINANCE, BUT WE'LL EXPLAIN IT AT THE HEARING.
BUT YOU KNEW THAT THIS WAS COMING, RIGHT? WE'LL EXPLAIN THAT AT THE HEARING.
YOU KNEW THIS WAS COMING, RIGHT? I, THIS IS PART OF THE COUNTY AM.
ANYBODY? VICTORIA SCHWARTZ, 2 48 BAXTER DRIVE.
UM, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION AND IT'S JUST KIND OF, UM, JUST MAKING SURE THAT SOME OF THE INFORMATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION WAS ACTUALLY RECEIVED BY THE BOARD AS WELL.
UM, JEFF, I HAVE GIVEN YOU A USB WITH PICTURES AND SO FORTH IN TERMS OF FLOODING AND JUST IDEAS, UH, IN TERMS OF THE ORDINANCES AS WE CHANGE THEM.
I KNOW THIS MIGHT NOT BE THE SPECIFIC, UH, PART FOR THE HEARING, IF YOU WILL, BUT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY, UM, IF IT WAS DOWNLOADED, THAT EVERY EACH AND EVERY SUPERVISOR WAS ABLE TO SEE THE PICTURES THAT I HAVE, NOT ONLY OF THE MALICK PROPERTY, UM, BUT ACTUAL VIDEOS, THE DEESCALATION GOING DOWN FROM HOLMANS HILL DOWN TO THE BOTTOM, UM, IN TERMS OF THE CREEKS FLOODING ON AMELIA STREET, ON LOVER'S LANE, UM, ALSO IN PERSON OF, UH, THE ZO RESIDENCE CEMETERY, ET CETERA.
SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT, UM, ONE THAT WAS PLACED ON FILE, IS THAT CORRECT? YES.
UM, AND I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT SINCE A LOT OF YOU GUYS WHEN YOU'RE DECIDING SOME OF THESE ORDINANCES, THAT IN SOME CASES IT MAY BE A LITTLE TOO LATE, THAT YOU GUYS DO ACTUALLY LOOK, SINCE YOU'RE NOT BOOTS ON THE GROUND, YOU'RE NOT LIVING IN THAT AREA.
SO WHEN YOU GUYS DO MAKE DECISIONS, YOU NEED TO ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY BE BOOTS ON THE GROUND LIVE WHERE WE'RE LIVING WHEN YOU'RE THINKING OF STUFF AND CHANGING THE ORDINANCES, UM, WALKING THE PROPERTY, BECAUSE AN AERIAL VIEW AND GOOGLE MAPS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, YOU GUYS NEED TO BE ON THE GROUND, WHETHER IT'S FLOODING.
'CAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA HAMMER THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE.
AND SO FOR THESE NEW CONSTRUCTION, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ARE GETTING THE FREEDOM TO DO ALMOST WHAT THEY WANT WITHIN SOME REVS.
WHEREAS WHEN WE GO TO TRY TO ASK FOR SOMETHING FOR OUR OWN PROPERTIES, WE HAVE A LITTLE EXTRA DILEMMA, MORE HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH.
SO MY WHOLE PURPOSE AGAIN, IS ONE, MAKE SURE YOU GUYS ARE AWARE OF THOSE PICTURES.
UM, JEFF, AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR DOWNLOADING THEM.
SO PLEASE LOOK AT THE LOVER'S LANE.
UM, YOU'LL SEE AMELIA STREET, YOU'LL SEE THE FLOODING FROM IDA.
YOU'LL SEE THE MALL PROPERTY, YOU'LL SEE VIDEOS, YOU'LL SEE THE DXL.
THERE SHOULD BE WELL OVER, UM, PROBABLY CLOSE TO A HUNDRED PICTURES AND ALSO SOME VIDEOS.
SO PLEASE LOOK AT THAT, UH, BEFORE MY TIME RUNS OUT.
THE OTHER THING IS, UM, THAT I'D ASK THAT MAKE SURE WHEN WE DO MOVE FORWARD AND THERE'S GONNA BE THOSE SPECIFIC AREAS THAT WE TALK ABOUT, DIFFERENT HEARINGS, ET CETERA, MAKE SURE THAT YOU GUYS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE BUILDING PROPERLY.
UM, I WOULD COME FROM LONG FOR CROSSING COMMUNITY.
THAT COMMUNITY, WHICH THE, UM, BOARD ACTUALLY APPROVED WAS NOT BUILT PROPERLY.
I'M DEALING WITH FLOODING ISSUES, UNFORTUNATELY.
SO THIS IS SOMETHING NOT HERE FOR THIS TIME, BUT THIS IS JUST TO GIVE YOU GUYS AN IDEA THAT WE DO NEED TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS.
SO WHEN YOU GUYS DO CHANGE THE ORDINANCES, PLEASE LOOK,
[00:20:01]
LOOK AT THE PICTURES, LOOK AT THE VIDEOS, GO BOOTS ON THE GROUND.I KNOW EVERYONE HAS A FULL-TIME JOB, BUT IF YOU WANNA BE A PART OF THE COMMUNITY, THEN PLEASE BE A PART OF THE COMMUNITY AND MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE BUILDING RESPONSIBLY.
NOT A THOUSAND HOUSES ON A NINE DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
SEAN CONNOLLY, I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO I AM.
YOU CAN ANNOUNCE MY ADDRESS IF YOU'D LIKE.
UM, BEING THAT THIS IS PUBLIC COMMENT, I'M NOT GOING TO LOOK UNDER THE MICROSCOPE, UH, THINGS THAT I LOOKED AT OR TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME.
UH, I'M HERE FOR THEIR LOVERS LANE FOLKS, THE PARK HOUSE, UM, THAT ARE RELATED TO MY MATTERS WITH TOLL BROTHERS.
UH, AND ACTUALLY SOME OF THE DEFENDANTS IN THIS ROOM.
SO, UH, JUST RECENTLY I LEARNED THAT NEW ATTORNEYS HAVE BEEN APPOINTED TO THE TOWNSHIP.
UH, YOU KNOW, JOE, I'D SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE, BUT, UH, NO THANK YOU TO YOUR DISSERVICE.
SO YOU'VE DONE UP A PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP.
I'M STILL HERE, I'M STILL THE SOLICITOR.
YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE RECUSED YOURSELF.
REMEMBER THAT THEY GOT THAT IN AN EMAIL, OKAY? UM, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE NAMES CAME UP TONIGHT AND ONE OF 'EM WAS ROYERSFORD HOLDING LLC.
SO I'VE DONE MY HOMEWORK, I'VE DONE MY INVESTIGATING RESEARCH.
UH, I'VE APPEARED BEFORE OTHER TOWNSHIP MEETINGS, UH, AS RECENTLY AS LAST WEEK IN PHOENIX BOROUGH.
OKAY? SEVERAL RESIDENTS ASKED ME TO APPEAR THERE FOR SIMILAR MATTERS WERE HAPPENING OVER PROVINCE, SPECIFICALLY LOVER'S LANE LAKE.
I THINK THE ONE GENTLEMAN YOU CUT OFF, I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT, BUT TO HIS POINT, PHOENIXVILLE FALLS IN THAT FLOOD ZONE THAT THEY ASSISTED MONTGOMERY COUNTY OR UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP WITH ALL THE DISPLACED RESIDENCE.
OKAY? SO I, I FIND THAT A BIG PROBLEM THAT YOU GUYS AREN'T TALKING TO PHOENIXVILLE, AT LEAST NOT IN THE PUBLIC.
WHAT INTERESTS ME IS ROYERSFORD HOLDINGS AND LLC AND MR. AND HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH JOSH SHAPIRO.
I FOUND OUT A FEW WEEKS AGO THAT JOSH SHAPIRO TOOK MONEY FROM TOLL BROTHERS INTO THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, IF NOT MILLIONS, FROM EACH OF THEIR CHILDREN.
ROBERT TOLL, BRUCE TOLL INVESTORS, DEVELOPERS, SOME OF 'EM ARE IN THIS ROOM TONIGHT, SOME OF 'EM ARE DEFENDANTS.
SO AS MY INVESTIGATION TAKES ME TO OTHER PLACES AND OTHER TOWNSHIPS AND OTHER PERSONNEL, I FOUND A COMPANY CALLED GRIFFIN, AMERICAN HEALTHCARE, GRIFFIN, AMERICAN GRIFF, HCS REC TWO RE SHORT ASSET F OKAY.
WITH PRINCIPAL OFFICES IN DELAWARE, NEW JERSEY, PENNSYLVANIA, MARYLAND.
THESE ARE REAL, REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT FUND COMPANIES, OKAY? YOUR COMPANIES LIKE NVR TOLL BROTHERS, THEY INVEST IN THESE COMPANIES.
SO THE MOVE OF MR. RIFKIN CHANGING HIS LLC OVER TO A NON-FOR-PROFIT, WHICH IS RUN THROUGH NAC LANDS.ORG, WHICH IS POSTED ON YOUR WEBSITE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S DEFINITELY AN ONGOING REOCCURRING ISSUE WITH DEVELOPERS AND MR. SHAPIRO TAKING MONEY FROM DEVELOPERS, INCLUDING IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
MR. RIFKIN DONATED OVER $200,000 TO JOSH SHAPIRO'S, ATTORNEY GENERAL CAMPAIGN.
HIS GOVERNOR'S RACE, A LOT OF OTHER DARK ENTITIES, INCLUDING ATTORNEYS IN THIS ROOM, AND DEVELOPERS AND ENGINEERING FIRMS. SEAN, YOU'RE AT THE THREE MINUTES.
OKAY? WELL, I APPRECIATE THAT.
I WOULD ASK TO RECLAIM MY TIME.
THE PAST FEW TOWNSHIP MEETINGS, I WAS CUT OFF AND INTERRUPTED, AND MY SPEECH WAS ACTUALLY INFRINGED UPON.
SO I'M GONNA LEAVE YOU GUYS WITH THIS, OKAY? WHATEVER BLOCK GRANTS OR OTHER FRONT PROGRAMS THAT YOU'RE RUNNING TO PUSH THIS PARK HOUSE THROUGH, THE WHOLE REASON IT WAS MOVED TO A NEW LLC WAS FOR A LEGAL REASON, OKAY? AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THERE'S PEOPLE OTHER THAN JUST ME INVESTIGATING IT AT THE STATE LEVEL AND AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.
OKAY? SO IF YOU KNOW ABOUT IT, YOU IN, YOU'RE INVOLVED, YOU ARE IN THE CROSS HAIRS OF OUR INVESTIGATIONAL PATH, OKAY? THANK YOU.
ANYBODY ELSE? PUBLIC COMMENT? NO.
UM, THERE'S NO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO REPORT ON.
UM, SO WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO THE FIRST, UH, NUMBER FOR THE AGENDA APPROVAL OF
[APPROVAL OF BILL LIST ]
THE BILL LIST FROM JANUARY 1ST, JANUARY 31ST.UM, CAN SOMEONE MAKE A MOTION? I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE BILL
[00:25:01]
LIST FROM THE PERIOD JANUARY ONE THROUGH JANUARY 31ST, 2024, IN THE AMOUNT OF $2,474,789 AND 16 CENTS.I HAVE AN APPROVAL AND A SECOND.
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 16TH, 2024.I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE JANUARY 16TH, 2024 BOARD OF SUPERVISORS REGULAR MEETING MINUTES.
ALL THOSE OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES.
[PUBLIC HEARING]
TO THE PUBLIC HEARING PART OF THE AGENDA, AND JOE BRESNAN WILL OPEN UP THE HEARING.YOU HAVE THE, UH, EXHIBIT JEFF.
UM, THERE'S A, UH, ORDINANCE AMENDMENT PENDING FOR STEVE SLOPES IN THE TOWNSHIP.
AND THE MUNICIPALITY PLANNING CODE REQUIRES THAT ANYTHING THAT'S OF A ZONING NATURE, UH, BE PASSED AT A PUBLIC HEARING THAT IS, UH, WITH TESTIMONY TAKEN BY A COURT STENOGRAPHER.
UM, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE ORDINANCE, AND I'LL MENTION THAT BOARD EXHIBIT ONE IS THE PROOF OF PUBLICATION OF TONIGHT'S HEARING THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SUPPLIED TO THE COURT REPORTER.
THE, THE ORDINANCE, UM, IS AMENDED BECAUSE THE TOWNSHIP BECAME AWARE WHEN, WHEN THE, WHEN THE APPLICATIONS CAME IN THAT EVERYBODY'S BEEN REFERRING TO.
NOW, THERE WAS A TRIO OF APPLICATIONS THAT ALL CAME IN AT THE SAME TIME THAT ALL NEEDED STEEP SLOPE RELIEF.
UM, WELL, VIRTUALLY EVERY TOWN THAT HAS A ZONING ORDINANCE HAS A SECTION THAT REGULATES STEEP SLOPES.
AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS, UM, TO DO IT.
UH, IN THE, THE CURRENT EXISTING ORDINANCE THAT WAS IN PLACE WHEN THESE APPLICATIONS ROLLED IN SETS IT UP IN SUCH A WAY THAT YOU CAN HAVE A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IF YOU MEET THE CRITERIA IN THE ORDINANCE.
UM, THERE'S NOTHING REALLY INHERENTLY WRONG WITH THAT, AND THERE'S PROBABLY AS MANY TOWNS DO IT THAT WAY, IS DO IT THE OTHER WAY.
UM, BUT WHAT I HAD RECOMMENDED WHEN THE TOWNSHIP SAID, LOOK, IS THERE SOMETHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THIS TO MAKE THE ORDINANCE TIGHTER? THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION WAS, YEAH, THERE IS A WAY TO MAKE IT TIGHTER.
YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T COMPLETELY REMOVE, UM, STEEP SLOPES AND SAY, YOU CAN NEVER BUILD ON A STEEP SLOPE, BECAUSE THEN APPLICANT JUST ASKS FOR A VARIANCE FROM THAT LANGUAGE.
SO ANYTHING IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SOMEBODY CAN ASK FOR A VARIANCE FROM IT.
BUT THE WAY THAT WE DID DECIDE TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT TOUGHER IS THAT, UH, SLOPES OVER 25% ARE NO LONGER GIVEN SPECIAL EXCEPTION CRITERIA.
SLOPES OVER 25% ARE PROHIBITED.
THEREFORE, THE APPLICANT FOR OVER 25% DEVELOPMENT HAS TO ASK FOR A VARIANCE.
SO THE IMPORTANCE BETWEEN A SPECIAL EXCEPTION AND A VARIANCE ISN'T, IS CRITICAL TO UNDERSTANDING, UH, WHAT THIS ORDINANCE DOES.
UM, IN THE STATE LAW, THE MUNICIPALITY'S PLANNING CODE, THE, THE, THE CODE SAYS THAT IF YOU CAN'T MEET A CRITERIA, ANY SECTION OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE THAT YOU NEED RELIEF FROM, YOU CAN SEEK A VARIANCE FOR THAT.
IT CAN BE A DIMENSIONAL VARIANCE, IT CAN BE A USE VARIANCE THAT YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE PERMITTED USE.
UH, AND YOU CAN, UH, SEEK A VARIANCE IF YOU CAN SATISFY THE FIVE CRITERIA THAT ARE IN THE MUNICIPALITY'S PLANNING CODE.
UM, AND THE MOST CRITICAL ONE SEEN MOST OFTEN AS CRITICAL IS THE HARDSHIP, PROOF OF A HARDSHIP.
UH, YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT THROUGH THAT THE STRICT APPLICATION OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE WOULD WORK A HARDSHIP FOR YOU IN THE PARTICULARS OF YOUR CASE, AND THAT, THEREFORE RELIEF SHOULD BE GRANTED.
SO THAT IS A LOT MORE SIGNIFICANT OF A BURDEN THAN THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION CRITERIA, UH, UNDER WHICH, WITH THIS, A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR ALL THE PEOPLE HERE WHO ARE ON, ON PARKHOUSE, THEY KNOW ABOUT CONDITIONAL USE.
A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS THE EXACT SAME THING, EXCEPT THAT IT GOES IN FRONT OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD INSTEAD OF THE ELECTED BODY.
IF YOU MEET THE CRITERIA IN THE ORDINANCE, THEN YOU'RE ENTITLED TO THE RELIEF.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOW A HARDSHIP.
UM, THE CRITERIA THEMSELVES MIGHT BE STRICT.
UM, BUT IF YOU SATISFY THE CRITERIA, THEN YOU'RE ENTITLED TO, UH, THE RELIEF.
AND THAT WAS THE MOST ORDINANCE THAT I, THAT I HAVE SEEN AND HAVE WORKED WITH GENERALLY DIVIDE STEEP SLOPES INTO THREE CATEGORIES.
UM, A LOW 15 DEGREES IN SLOPE, 15 TO 25 DEGREES IN SLOPE, AND 25 AND HIGHER, UM, IN SLOPE.
[00:30:01]
REALLY HAS TO SEEK RELIEF.I'VE NEVER SEEN AN ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRED IT FOR LESS THAN 15 DEGREES.
WE'RE FOCUSING ON THE GREATER THAN 25.
SO 15 TO 25 IS STILL A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, BUT OVER 25, IT'S PROHIBITED.
SO THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO, UM, OBTAIN A VARIANCE.
UH, THIS, THIS MAKES IT, ALTHOUGH YOU CAN, YOU CAN ATTACH CONDITIONS TO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS.
AND THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE, IN THE LAST THREE, UH, HEARINGS THAT SOME OF YOU PEOPLE HAVE MENTIONED BY NAME.
UM, IT, IT, IT IS A GREATER DEGREE OF CONTROL FOR THE TOWNSHIP IF IT'S A VARIANCE, UH, THAT'S REQUIRED FOR OVER 25, UH, DEGREES.
THE REASON, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE SAID, WELL, WHY DIDN'T YOU HAVE THESE IN PLACE SOONER? AND, AND WHAT, WHAT I HAVE SAID IS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND KNOW IT'S, IT IS THIS THICK AND THE, IN THE PRINTED VERSION OF THE BOOK, YOU COULD LOOK AT EVERY PAGE, EVERY DAY AND STARE AT LANGUAGE.
AND IT JUST DOESN'T OCCUR TO YOU AS BEING A PROBLEM UNTIL IT'S PUT IN THE CONTEXT OF A, OF A PARTICULAR APPLICATION.
UM, WE ACTUALLY DO PERIODICALLY AMEND THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
JEFF AND I DO GO THROUGH LOOKING FOR THINGS THAT NEED TO BE CLEANED UP, UH, IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
AND WE DO THESE OMNIBUS CLEANUP ORDINANCES.
UH, JEFF CAN CONFIRM AND HE'S NODDING.
UM, AND SO WE DO THE THINGS THAT STAND OUT THAT WE KNOW NEED TO BE CLEANED UP.
WE DO CLEAN UP ONCE A YEAR OR EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS, UM, TO KEEP THEM CURRENT WITH CURRENT PRACTICE.
BUT YOU, YOU JUST CANNOT CATCH EVERYTHING.
AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS, UM, THE, THE TOWNSHIP IS NOW 90 SOMETHING PERCENT BUILT OUT, UM, MID NINETIES, JEFF? YES.
SO THE BIG, MOST OF THE LARGE PARCELS HAVE ALREADY BEEN DEVELOPED.
AND WHEN WE WERE WORKING ON LARGE PARCELS, IT DIDN'T MATTER AS MUCH BECAUSE WHENEVER THEY HAD TO GIVE SOME STEEP SLOPE, THEY, OR, YOU KNOW, GIVE SOME OPEN SPACE, THEY WOULD JUST GIVE THE STEEP SLOPE PARTS.
SO IT WAS SOMETHING THEY WEREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE BUILD ON.
ANYWAY, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE'RE NOW SEEING, YOU KNOW, INFILL JOBS, SMALLER JOBS, SMALLER APPLICATIONS TO DEVELOP, UM, IT'S, IT IS, THE STEEP SLOPE CAN BE A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF LAND, BUT A SIGNIFICANTLY HIGH PERCENTAGE OF THAT PARCEL.
SO IT KIND OF HAS SHIFTED THE, YOU KNOW, THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STEEP SLOPE.
UM, IT, IT IS NOT A PERFECT WORLD.
SO, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, WHY, WHY DIDN'T YOU DO IT SOONER? I MEAN, I GUESS IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE HAD DONE IT SOONER, BUT THERE'S NOTHING INHERENTLY WRONG WITH THE CURRENT ORDINANCE.
UM, AND THERE ARE MANY, MANY PLACES THAT HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT LOOKS JUST LIKE, UH, THE EXISTING ORDINANCE.
THIS IS ONLY SOMETHING THAT TWEAKS IT A LITTLE LITTLE BIT TO GIVE IT MAYBE A LITTLE MORE STRENGTH, UM, TO ADDRESS, UH, A CURRENT PROBLEM.
UM, SO THE, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU HAVE APPLICATIONS COME IN, THE ZONING FREEZES ON THE DATE THAT THE APPLICATION IS SUBMITTED.
SO YOU CAN FIX IT, YOU CAN SEE A PROBLEM AND ADAPT AND AMEND AN ORDINANCE TO ADDRESS A PROBLEM, BUT IT DOESN'T APPLY TO THE APPLICATIONS THAT ARE PENDING, UH, BEFORE YOU MAKE THE ORDINANCE, UH, YOU KNOW, ADOPT A NEW ORDINANCE.
THAT'S WHY WE, THIS COULD NOT APPLY TO THE APPLICATIONS THAT CAME IN.
THEY WEREN'T GIVEN AN EXEMPTION.
THEY SIMPLY USED THE ORDINANCE AS IT CURRENTLY EXISTS.
AND THEY WENT TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD AND GOT SPECIAL EXCEPTION RELIEF INSTEAD OF VARIOUS RELIEF.
SO THAT, THAT'S HOW IT HAD TO GO.
AND WE, THE TOWNSHIP DID PARTICIPATE IN THOSE HEARINGS AND GOT MEANINGFUL, UH, CONDITIONS ATTACHED TO THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION APPROVAL.
UH, THAT GOES, YOU KNOW, PRETTY FAR IN ASSURING THAT THE, UH, STORMWATER FACILITIES ON SITE WILL BE, UM, INSPECTED EVERY YEAR AND MONEY POSTED FOR REPLACING PARTS THAT WEAR OUT AND, AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE TO TRY TO, UM, YOU KNOW, ADDRESS THE PROBLEM THAT WAS IDENTIFIED ON SITE FOR EACH OF THOSE.
SO, UM, JEFF PREPARED THAT, I THINK I PROBABLY SPOKE ABOUT, WELL, WE, BUT WE ALSO REMOVED, UM, THERE WAS A, THERE WAS A PROVISION ABOUT TOWNSHIP ENGINEER BEING, UH, YOU KNOW, APPROVING OF WELLS IN THE STEEP SLOPE DISTRICT THAT WAS REMOVED.
'CAUSE IT REALLY SHOULDN'T BE.
THE ENGINEER'S CALL SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE PART OF YOUR ZONING HEARING.
UM, AND THERE WAS ALSO THE PART ABOUT REMOVAL OF, WE REMOVED THE ENGINEER'S DETERMINATION PRIOR TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD THAT THE, UH, THERE WAS NO OTHER LOCATION FOR, UM, DESIGN LOCATION OF STORMWATER FACILITIES, ROADS, ACCESSORIES, UM, SO THAT WHEN AN APPLICANT CAME IN FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTION OR FOR A VARIANCE, THEY HAVE TO MAKE THAT CASE, WHICH AGAIN, PUTS MORE BURDEN ONTO THE APPLICANT AND REMOVES THE TOWNSHIP FROM MAKING ANY SORT OF DETERMINATION BEFORE A VARIANCE IS EVEN HEARD OR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS EVEN HEARD.
[00:35:01]
AND, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S, THERE'S, THERE ARE GOING TO BE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE IMPACTED NO MATTER WHICH OF THESE ORDINANCES IN PLACE.IT'S NOT A MAGIC FIX ALL FOR STORMWATER.
AND THE STORMWATER WILL BE SOMETHING THAT, UM, PEOPLE, UH, BATTLE WITH ALL THE TIME EVERYWHERE AND EVERY MUNICIPALITY.
UH, SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT GOING TO MAKE ALL OF THAT MAGICALLY, ALL THOSE PROBLEMS MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR.
BUT IT IS, UH, SOMETHING SPECIFIC THAT WE WERE ABLE TO DO IN RESPONSE TO THE PROBLEM.
AND, AND IN LOOKING AT THE ORDINANCE, UM, BOARD MEMBERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ORDINANCE? CAN CAN I MAKE A COMMENT? EVERYBODY WILL BE GIVEN THAT OPPORTUNITY.
WHEN YOU SAY IT'S THE BURDEN OF THE APPLICANT, OR IT WILL BE UNDER THE VARIANCE, GIVE ME EXAMPLES OF WHAT THAT PROOF WOULD BE.
HOW WOULD THEY PROVE THEIR, UM, THAT THEY NEED THIS? COULD YOU GIMME EXAMPLES OF IT? I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF, SO IN A, IN A, UM, IN A TYPICAL VARIANCE CASE, FORGET, FORGET, UM, STEVE FOR A SECOND, BUT, YOU KNOW, IN A TYPICAL VARIANCE CASE, SUPPOSE SOMEBODY OWNS A LOT THAT'S A VERY LONG AND SKINNY AND THEY WANT TO BUILD A HOUSE ON IT, AND YOU HAVE SIDE YARD SETBACK REQUIREMENTS AND A REAR YARD SETBACK REQUIREMENT AND A FRONT YARD SETBACK REQUIREMENT.
BUT THE, THE YARD IS SO SKINNY, AND I'VE ACTUALLY HAD THIS HAPPEN WHERE THE TWO SIDE YARD SETBACKS TOUCH EACH OTHER.
YOU COULDN'T PUT A HOUSE IN THE MIDDLE BECAUSE IF YOU MET ALL THE SETBACKS, YOU'D BE NOWHERE FOR A HOUSE.
THE WHOLE PROPERTY WOULD BE COVERED BY SIDE YARD SETBACKS.
SO THEY SAY MY PROPERTY IS UNIQUE IF I, IF YOU APPLY THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO ME, I CAN'T, I CAN'T BUILD A HOUSE ON IT AT ALL.
PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME MEET THE SETBACKS.
SO THAT, SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT THERE'S SOMETHING UNUSUAL, A HARDSHIP TO YOUR PROPERTY THAT YOU DIDN'T CAUSE.
UM, AND IT'S USUALLY RELATED TO THE, WHAT THE PROPERTY'S TOPOGRAPHY IS OR DIMENSIONS ARE.
BUT IT CAN BE, THERE'S OTHER SCENARIOS TOO, UM, AND, UH, THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE LITTLEST AMOUNT NECESSARY TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE NOT OVERREACHING AND ASKING FOR TOO MUCH.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, AND IF YOU TRY TO APPLY THAT TO A, UM, STEEP SLOPE, IT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, THE CASE WOULD LOOK MUCH LIKE IT DID FOR THE LAST THREE, SEEKING THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION, EXCEPT THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE IN ADDITION THAT THEY ARE NOT, THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO DEVELOP, THEY'RE UNABLE TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY IF THEY DON'T GET THE RELIEF.
COULD THE RESPONSE EVER BE YOU BOUGHT IT THAT WAY? OH, WELL, COULD THAT BE YOUR RESPONSE BACK? IT DEPENDS.
YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T COMPLETELY STRIP A PROPERTY OF THE ABILITY TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT.
OR YOU MIGHT, YOU MIGHT BE ACCUSED OF TAKING THE PROPERTY THROUGH YOUR, THROUGH YOUR ZONING ORDINANCE, BUT THERE ARE SOME CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE YOU ARE ABLE TO MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT, BUT IT'S, THAT'S VERY CASE BY CASE.
AND AGAIN, THIS IS ALL THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
YOU ARE A PARTY TO EVERY ZONING HEARING BOARD APPLICATION, OBVIOUSLY.
BUT THESE ARE ARGUMENTS THAT THEY MAKE IN FROM THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
I SEE THAT THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, SUPPORTS OUR CHANGES, BUT THEY ASK THAT WE REFERENCE, UH, THE, UH, MONTGOMERY COUNTY PUBLIC HEALTH COACH CHAPTERS 15 AND 17, DEALING WITH DIFFERENT USES THAT CAN AFFECT, UH, GROUNDWATER.
CAN WE ADD THAT IN? UH, JEFF AND I TALKED ABOUT THAT YESTERDAY OR THE DAY BEFORE.
UM, WE CAN, WE DIDN'T WANT TO ADD IT THIS TIME BECAUSE WE WOULD'VE HAD TO START ALL OVER AGAIN WITH ADVERTISING AND BRINGING EVERYBODY OUT FOR THE ORDINANCE.
'CAUSE IF YOU MAKE A CHANGE TO THE ORDINANCE AFTER IT'S ADVERTISED, YOU HAVE TO RERUN IT BACK THROUGH EVERYBODY.
SO HE AND I ARE ALREADY WORKING ON ANOTHER, UM, YOU KNOW, ON CLEANUP ORDINANCE WHERE WE DO THE OCCASIONAL CLEANUPS AND WE THOUGHT WE WOULD PUT IT IN THERE.
YEAH, AND I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, PEOPLE HAVE TO ABIDE BY THESE TWO CHAPTERS ANYWAY.
BUT THIS IS JUST A FLAG IN OUR ORDINANCE TO SAY, OH, DON'T FORGET THIS.
AND, AND WE WILL BE DOING THAT.
WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT CODIFICATION LATER.
WE SORT OF HAVE, WE HAVEN'T DONE ONE FOR A YEAR OR SO BECAUSE WE'RE WORKING ON CODIFICATION.
ONCE WE GET THROUGH THAT, WE'LL BE BRINGING ANOTHER MOTION, ANOTHER ORDINANCE CHANGE TO YOU.
JUST, JUST FOR MY CLARITY, YOU MENTIONED ZERO TO 15 DEGREES, 15 DEGREES TO 25 DEGREES, 25 DEGREES PLUS.
BUT THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN IN PERCENTAGES.
HOW DOES THAT, CAN YOU TRANSLATE? I I I SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID DEGREES.
SO THAT WAS, THAT WAS MY MISTAKE.
I HAVE A QUESTION PERTAINING TO THAT.
THE 15 TO 25, COULDN'T WE PUT A VARIANCE ON THAT AMOUNT TOO? WHY THAT WAS GONNA, I HAD A SIMILAR QUESTION, LIKE WHY, WHY
[00:40:01]
JUST THE 25%? YEAH.WHY JUST THE ABOVE 25? WHY NOT A VARIANCE AT 15% BEING THAT IF THERE'S ONLY WHAT FIVE OR 7% OF THE TOWNSHIP LEFT TO DEVELOP, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PERCENT OF THAT DEVELOPER WILL LAND, FALLS INTO STEEP SLOPE, NOR THE PERCENT OF THE STEEP SLOPE.
BUT, BUT, BUT IF I STEP BACK FROM THAT, WHEN TIME COMES TO MAKE A DECISION ON THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, THE VARIANCE COMES TO US AS REPRESENTATIVES OF THE, OF THE, OF THE TOWNSHIP VERSUS THE PLANNING COMMISSION MAKING THESE DECISIONS.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT I, I WOULD PREFER TO SEE MORE OF IT COME FORWARD PUBLICLY HERE THAN PUBLICLY PLANNING COMMISSION.
REALLY, THE, THE, THE REASON WHY IT WAS NOT PROHIBITED 15 TO 25 IS, UM, IF YOU PROHIBIT EVERYTHING, THEN YOU FACE A POSSIBLE TAKING ARGUMENT.
YOU, YOU DIDN'T WANT TO JUST SAY YOU, YOU PROHIBITED ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE BOARD BECAUSE IT GIVES THE APPLICANT A DIFFERENT LEGAL ARGUMENT THAT YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH.
AND 15 TO 25 IS GENERALLY NOT SEEN IN, IN MOST ZONING ORDINANCES AS PROBLEMATIC.
25 IS WHERE IT BECOMES A PROBLEM.
AND SO IT WAS JUSTIFIABLE TO START THERE AS THE PROHIBITED ZONE.
BUT ON YOUR OTHER POINT, YOU, IF YOU WANT TO MAKE ANOTHER AMENDMENT TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE, YOU CAN CHANGE THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO A CONDITIONAL USE AND THEY CAN ALL COME TO YOU INSTEAD OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD THAT'S UP.
WHETHER IT GOES TO YOU OR THEM IS UP TO YOU.
SO IF YOU WANTED TO TAKE ALL THESE HEARINGS HERE, YOU COULD DO THAT.
UH, I MEAN, I GUESS IT'S HARD.
IT'S HARD FOR ME TO DETERMINE THAT NOT KNOWING HOW MUCH OF THE LAND LEFT FALLS INTO THESE STEEP SCALE BARRIERS.
WHAT IS, IS LOVER'S LANE, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT PERCENT IS, IS THAT SO, BECAUSE I DRIVE BY IT EVERY DAY, I WALK THROUGH IT, IT'S, IT, THERE'S A PORTIONS THAT ARE 15.
I, I THINK JEN CAN SPEAK TO IT BETTER THAN I CAN IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH PERCENTAGE OF THE LAND.
SO IT'S, SOME OF IT'S RELATIVELY FLAT, SOME OF IT IS 15 TO 25% AND GREATER THAN 25%.
UM, IN TERMS OF YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHAT'S LEFT TO DEVELOP, I'VE BEEN TRYING SINCE WE'VE STARTED THIS PROCESS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE A MAP SHOWING WHAT'S LEFT AND WHAT PERCENTAGE THERE IS WITHOUT HAVING EVERY PROPERTY SURVEYED.
IT IS REALLY AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK BECAUSE THE TOPO LINES THAT I, THAT I HAVE ACCESS TO AREN'T FINE ENOUGH TO REALLY DETERMINE WHAT STEVE SLOPE OR NOT.
BUT WHAT I CAN SHOW YOU IS, UM, HANG ON, LET ME GET BACK TO WHERE I NEED TO BE.
UM, THIS MAP HERE, AND AGAIN, I BROUGHT IT UP AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND IT IS RATHER DIFFICULT TO READ, BUT EVERYWHERE THAT YOU HAVE THE DARK PURPLE LINES THAT ARE TOGETHER ARE GENERALLY GONNA BE THE STEEP SLOPE AREAS.
THE FAR THE, THE LIGHTER THE COLOR, THE FARTHER THE LINES ARE APART, THE FLATTER THE PROPERTY IS.
UM, YOU, YOU CAN GENERALLY SEE IT'S GONNA BE ALONG THE RIVER, IT'S GONNA BE ALONG THE CREEK.
MOST OF THAT AREA HAS SOME SORT OF PERMANENT PRESERVATION ON IT IN TERMS OF BEING OWNED BY THE COUNTY OR US OR THE STATE.
UM, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME SMALL PORTIONS OF PROPERTIES THAT, THAT HAVE IT, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T ACCOUNT FOR ON THIS MAP.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A LOT, BUT I CAN'T PROMISE THAT IT IS NONE.
ONE OTHER QUESTION, UM, NOW THAT WE'RE CHANGING THIS TO A VARIANCE FOR THE ZONING, AND WE COULD COME TO US IF WE DECIDE FOR CONDITIONAL USE, BUT I WANNA GO BACK TO ZONING THE WAY THAT WE'RE GONNA PASS IT TONIGHT.
UM, WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO SEND YOU, JOE, FOR
THEY'RE, THEY'RE OWN THEIR OWN AND THEY MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS.
BUT I WANT THEM TO KNOW THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO SAY NO TO THIS VARIANCE.
LIKE, WELL, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN SOLICITOR WILL TAKE 'EM THROUGH THE CRITERIA ON, YOU KNOW, HOW STRONG THEIR CASE THE CASE IS AND WHAT REALISTIC ABILITY THEY HAVE TO SAY NO, THAT'S UP TO THEM.
CAN I GO ON BEHALF OF THE TOWNSHIP? I MEAN, I, I CAN ALWAYS GO.
I, I WENT TO ONE AND SENT, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER ATTORNEY TO ANOTHER ON THE TWO THAT I WAS, THAT WERE VOTED ON TO SEND ME IF, IF THE 15 TO 25 WAS CHANGED FROM SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS TO CONDITIONAL USE, WALK ME THROUGH HOW YOU DETERMINE IT NEEDS CONDITIONAL USE WHEN IT WOULD GET, WHEN OR IF IT WOULD GET TO THIS BOARD.
WELL, IF, IF, IF THEY SEEK TO DEVELOP
[00:45:01]
THE LAND, SO THERE'S GONNA BE A LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN TO DEVELOP THE LAND AND EITHER THEIR ENGINEER OR THE TOWNSHIP ENGINEER IS GOING TO LOOK AT IT AND SAY, YOU NEED STEEP SLOPE RELIEF HERE.IF IT'S SOMETIMES THE, THE APPLICANT'S OWN ENGINEER WILL SEE THE NEED FOR THAT BEFORE IT EVEN GETS TO THE TOWNSHIP AND, AND GO TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD FIRST.
OR THEY MIGHT GET A REVIEW LETTER THAT SAYS YOU NEED RELIEF ON, ON OUR ENGINEER'S REVIEW, YOU NEED RELIEF.
AND THEN THEY, BASED ON THAT LETTER, THEY HAVE TO GO TO THE, WHAT CURRENTLY THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
SO, UM, THEN THEY WOULD FILE AN APPLICATION FOR CONDITIONAL USE RELIEF IF IT WERE MOVED OVER HERE.
UM, AND YOU WOULD SCHEDULE A HEARING, UH, CONDITIONAL USE HEARING.
WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD SEVERAL IN THE LAST YEAR OR TWO YEARS.
UM, BUT THEY'RE ALWAYS SMALLER SO YOU DON'T HARDLY EVEN NOTICE THAT THEY'VE HAPPENED EXCEPT FOR WHEN YOU SEE HIM SITTING DOWN THERE.
IT'S PROBABLY A CONDITIONAL USE HERE.
UM, BUT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, SMALLER ONES THAT ONLY TAKE A FEW MINUTES SOMETIMES.
THE APPLICANT WOULD PRESENT THEIR CASE AND, UM, ANYBODY WHO OBJECTS WOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, HAVE THEIR SAY AND THEN YOU, YOU WOULD DECIDE IT IF THEY DENIED THEIR VARIANCE.
THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, I'M ASSUMING THE APPLICANT WOULD APPEAL.
WOULD THAT TRIGGER A COURT CASE OR WHAT DOES, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? IF ANYTIME, ANYTIME AN APPLICANT IS DENIED RELIEF BY THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, THEY HAVE 30 DAYS IN WHICH TO APPEAL TO, TO NARSTOWN.
SOMETIMES I, I COULDN'T GIVE YOU A PERCENTAGE.
I MEAN, I, I REPRESENT A NUMBER OF ZONING, HEARING BOARDS AND RELIEF WHEN RELIEF IS DENIED.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, I WOULD SAY MAYBE HALF, LESS THAN HALF THE TIME.
BUT MAYBE SOMETHING IN THAT VICINITY APPEALS ARE TAKEN FROM DENIALS.
SO IS THERE AN OPTION TO AMEND IT TO CONDITIONAL USE AND VOTE ON IT THAT WAY TONIGHT? OR DOES THAT HAVE TO BE, IF THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE THEM, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE THE HEARINGS COME HERE AND SEND IT TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, WE WOULD NEED TO START A, I WOULD, WE WOULD NEED TO CHANGE THAT AND RE ADVERTISE AND, AND COME BACK.
UM, BUT IF, IF YOU WANT TO, BUT WE, WE COULDN'T VOTE ON THAT TONIGHT.
AND, AND HOW, I KNOW IT'S DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE WHAT'S DEVELOPABLE LAND LEFT, BUT IS THERE A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE WE COULD ESTIMATE IT SO THAT WE COULD UNDERSTAND WHETHER I, I HAVE AN ESTIMATE.
I MEAN, WE'RE AT LIKE 95.7% DEVELOPED.
UM, SO THE OTHER 5%, IS IT ALL STEEP SLOPES OR IS IT LIKE JUST A FEW PLACES OR IT, IT IS A FEW PLACES.
I HAVE PRIVATELY OWNED PLACES AND WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS, THE PLANNING COMMISSION, I, I'VE SHOWN WHAT LAND IS LESS LEFT TO BE DEVELOPED AND WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT IT AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.
UM, I, I CAN CERTAINLY GET YOU THAT MAP AND SHOW YOU WHAT IT IS.
I CAN PUT THAT MAP ON TOP OF THIS ONE.
I MEAN, I ALREADY HAVE THE PARCELS IN HERE.
IT'S REALLY HARD TO SEE, BUT, UM, THIS IS RIVERS BEND WHERE OUR AUDIENCE MEMBERS LIVE AND, AND YOU CAN SEE LIKE THE BACKSIDE OF THEIR PROPERTY HAS SOME STEEP SLOPE TO IT OR WHAT I'M ESTIMATING TO BE STEEP SLOPE.
AGAIN, IT'S A CALCULATION OVER A GIVEN LINEAR FOOTAGE AND PERCENTAGE OF SLOPE SO THAT IT'S, IT IS MORE OF A SCIENTIFIC THAN JUST PUT LOOKING AT THE LINES ON THE MAP.
UM, I CAN CERTAINLY OVERLAY THE TWO MAPS AND GET YOU AND, YOU KNOW, HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE PARCELS THAT PLEASE.
MY, MY SENSE IS WHAT LET THE ZONING GIVE A, GIVE IT A SHOT THIS WAY BECAUSE IT'S REALLY THEIR JOB AND I DON'T WANNA, I DON'T WANT TO TAKE IT FROM THAT.
IT'S, I THINK PASS IT THIS WAY AND SEE HOW IT GOES.
KEEP HER PHONE ON A PULSE AND WE COULD ALWAYS SWITCH IT BACK TO US.
BUT WHEN IT TAKES THE JOB, WELL, I MEAN, THERE'S ONLY 5% LEFT, SO, RIGHT.
I'D SAY LET'S TRUST, I THINK YOU GET ONE SHOT AGAIN, THIS RIGHT, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DEVELOP THE REST OF OUR LAND APPROPRIATELY.
I'D SAY IF THERE'S STEEP SLOPE, GIVE US A HEADS UP AND WE COULD EVEN HAVE JOE ATTEND.
OR I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THAT WHEN THERE'S BACK HERE.
OH YEAH, I'D SAY I WOULD WANNA KNOW WHEN THERE'S STEEP SLOPE GOING THROUGH ZONING SO WE COULD ALL BE PART OF IT OR SEND JOE.
UM, THAT'S JUST MY
I, I SAY THE PASS IT THE WAY THAT IT IS 'CAUSE I DON'T WANT OTHER APPLICANTS COME THROUGH AND SLIP THROUGH THE CRACK.
I WANT, I WANT MAKE SURE WE FIX IT AND WE COULD ALWAYS GO BACK AND CHANGE IT TO CONDITIONAL USE, BUT I DON'T WANNA HOLD IT UP.
SO WHAT'S THE PROCESS TO CHANGE TO CONDITIONAL USE THEN? IS THAT SOMETHING TO BE REVIEWED BETWEEN? SO YOU WERE ALREADY GONNA MAKE SOME AMENDMENTS IN SOME, IT WOULD LITERALLY BE JUST FOLLOWING TONIGHT
[00:50:01]
TO CHANGE? IT WOULD LITERALLY BE JUST CHANGING THE WORDS.SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO CONDITIONAL USE IN THE ORDINANCE.
BUT UNDER THE LAWS FOR, FOR ZONING ORDINANCES, IF YOU MAKE ANY CHANGES IN THEM, EVEN REALLY PICK ONES, YOU HAVE TO GO BACK AND SEND IT BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR THEIR INPUT.
IT'S, IT'S WAY MORE PICKY THAN NON ZONING.
IF THIS WAS NOT A ZONING ORDINANCE, WE WOULD JUST SAY WE WOULD CHANGE IT RIGHT NOW AND IN THE HEARING AND THEN FIX THE WORDS LATER.
BUT WITH ZONING IT HAS TO GO AROUND THE HORN AGAIN.
MR. JAGER, UM, THE MAP I HAVE UP HAS IN THE PARCELS WITHOUT ANY COLOR.
THE WHITE PARCELS, THEY'RE THE UNDEVELOPED PARCELS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, AND IF YOU LOOK, I WOULD SAY JUST AS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, GUESS THIS AREA OFF OF SECOND AVENUE, WHICH IS TO THE SOUTHWEST OF PARKHOUSE, THERE MAY BE SOME STEEP SLOPES IN THAT AREA.
THERE'S ALSO A LOT OF POWER LINES THAT RUN THROUGH THERE.
SO I DON'T KNOW HOW DEVELOPABLE THE PROPERTY IS.
UM, A LOT OF THE OTHER PARCELS, THE PARCELS HERE AT THE, THE, UM, THEY'RE SORT OF BETWEEN, UH, HOLLOW ROAD AND SOUTH COLLEGEVILLE ROAD.
THIS IS ACTUALLY THE HIGHEST ELEVATION OF THE TOWNSHIP IN HERE.
SO THERE YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THAT IN IN THAT AREA.
THAT'S A LARGE BLOCK OF DEVELOPABLE PROPERTY.
THERE'S ALSO THIS PIECE DOWN HERE OFF OF LONGFORD ROAD, UM, WHICH IS INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPED.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE OTHER MAP, IT GENERALLY IS PRETTY FLAT.
AND AGAIN, I REALIZE THE PARCEL LINES ARE HARD TO READ, BUT IT IS THIS AREA RIGHT IN HERE THAT'S GENERALLY PRETTY FLAT.
AGAIN, THERE MAY BE INSTANCES OF, OF STEVE SLOPES IN SOME DEVELOPABLE PROPERTIES.
I, I CERTAINLY CAN'T SAY THAT THERE WON'T BE, I THINK THE THREE OR FOUR THAT WE'VE HAD OVER THE PAST SIX MONTHS HAVE JUST SORT OF BROUGHT THIS TO THE FOREFRONT.
IT WAS MORE CRITICAL THAN, I MEAN, I, I WENT BACK AND LOOKED AND FROM 2017 ON TO UP UNTIL THIS YEAR, THERE WAS STILL A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF STEEP SLOPES OR, UH, ZONING HEARING BOARDS THAT CAME UP.
UM, I CAN PULL THAT UP FOR YOU TOO.
UM, THESE ARE ALL OF THE STEEP SLOPE RELIEF GRANTED BY THE ZONING HEARING BOARD FROM 2017 TO 2023.
GUESS THIS LIST DIDN'T GIVE US A HEADS UP THAT THERE WAS A, AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS LIST, I DON'T WANT TO, IF, IF YOU LOOK AT THE EVERYTHING ELSE, 'CAUSE I MEAN HERE YOU HAVE IN 2018, THERE WERE TWO OF THEM OUT OF THE NINE APPLICATIONS, PROBABLY THERE WERE FIVE THAT WERE IN-LAW SUITES, THREE THAT WERE ACCESSORY BUILDINGS.
UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE NUMBERS THAT THEY REPRESENT FOR THE TOTAL POPULATION OF ZONING HEARING BOARD CASES IS RELATIVELY SMALL.
WHAT GOES TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD IS USUALLY MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THIS.
SO I BRING THIS UP ONLY TO SHOW YOU THAT THERE HAVEN'T, IN, IN MY MIND, NOT A LOT OF THESE THAT HAVE COME UP OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS.
AND AS JOE SAID EARLIER, A LOT OF THESE ARE GOING TO BE WHERE THEY'RE SEEKING RELIEF FOR STEEP SLOPE, FOR YARD AREAS AND STEEP SLOPE.
WHAT'S COME UP OVER THE PAST FOR HEARINGS OR FOR APPLIC HAS BEEN, UM, ROADS AND STORMWATER CONTROLS AND, AND THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH PREVIOUSLY.
IN THE INTEREST OF PROGRESS, I, I WOULD, I WOULD BE OKAY WITH RAISING THE VOTE TONIGHT IN ORDER TO MAKE PROGRESS.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S A GENTLEMAN THAT BROUGHT UP, UH, I THINK IT WAS MR. O'ROURKE ABOUT THE WATERSHED INITIATIVE AND IT'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A HANGOVER FROM HURRICANE IDA AND WE, AND WE, WE CAN'T ALLOW, WE CAN'T ALLOW TO PILE ON TOP OF WHAT HAPPENED DURING HURRICANE IDA TO BE ANY WORSE THAN WHAT IT'S, AND THAT'S MY INTEREST IS WE HAVE WATER WASTE SURROUNDING OUR TOWNSHIP.
HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T CAUSE MORE TROUBLE AND WE LOOK AT SOLUTIONS VERSUS, SO THAT'S MY WHOLE INTEREST IN THIS TOPIC.
SO IN THE INTEREST OF PROGRESS, I LIKE THAT THIS MAKES PROGRESS, BUT I GUESS I'M NOT SATISFIED.
[00:55:01]
LIKE TO HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT IT SPECIFIC TO WHAT ARE THE DEVELOPED LANDS AROUND THE BODIES OF WATER.AND I, I'D LIKE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THIS WATERSHED INITIATIVE.
I'M SORRY I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT, BUT I'D LIKE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT IT.
AND THAT'S WHAT CONTRIBUTED TO IDA TOO BECAUSE IT WASN'T JUST WHAT WE ARE DOING, IT'S WHAT PEOPLE UPSTREAM ARE DOING THAT REALLY COMPOUNDED THAT PROBLEM.
UM, TIM SENT AROUND ON FRIDAY TO ME AND TO SUE, UH, UH, THE, THE CLIP AND THE, THE FLYER FROM, UM, MR. WEBSTER SAID REPRESENTATIVE WEBSTER'S PRESS CONFERENCE.
I SENT THAT OUT TO THE EAC THIS MORNING.
I, AND WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT IT IN OUR MARCH MEETING AGAIN.
A LITTLE BIT OF A LAG BETWEEN MEETINGS, BUT, BUT WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THAT AND, AND, UM, SO NO, I APPRECIATE TALKING ABOUT IT.
NEW IT, IT'S NEW TO ALL TO ME TOO.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE DID HAVE, UM, WE'RE THINKING ABOUT, OH, I, I'M SORRY I DON'T REMEMBER THE, THE REPRESENTATIVE'S NAME.
SHE, SHE WAS FROM MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION.
WE HAD HER OUT ABOUT A YEAR AGO, A YEAR AND A HALF.
WHAT WAS HER NAME? I KNOW, I, I I DON'T REMEMBER EITHER.
BUT SHE WAS OUT AND I KNOW THAT I, I'M PRETTY SURE WE SENT A LETTER OF SUPPORT WITH HER ON THAT INITIATIVE AND THIS IS SORT OF HER NEXT STEP.
NOW SHE'S GOTTEN STATE MY IN, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT WE'RE GONNA SPIN UP WHAT WE CAN DO WITH AND HEAR MORE ABOUT IT AND I'D LOVE TO HAVE EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN IT.
EVERYONE HERE WE CAN HAVE EVEN JOE WEBSTER COME FORTH AND TALK ABOUT IT.
I'D LOVE AND EDUCATE ALL OF US.
'CAUSE IT'S NOT JUST US, EVERYBODY IN THE REGION AND WE JUST HAPPEN TO BE DOWNSTREAM.
SO I ASSUME THIS PROBABLY ISN'T THE ONLY ORDINANCE THAT'S GONNA IMPACT ANY LIKE WATER.
IS THERE OTHER ORDINANCES THAT WE CAN LOOK AT NOW AND KIND OF GET ON? SORRY, NOT YOUR, I'M SORRY.
ARE THERE OTHER ORDINANCES THAT WE CAN LOOK AT NOW TO MAKE SURE THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN, NOT JUST FOR STEEP SLOPE FOR OTHER THINGS AND YES, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT SOMEWHAT AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THEN THAT WILL BE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THEN WE CAN START TACKLING THOSE DIFFERENT CAN WE PRIORITIZE THIS THOUGH? BECAUSE I DON'T WANT LIKE SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO HAPPEN AGAIN WHEN LIKE STEEP SLOPES CLEARLY IS AN ISSUE AND WE DIDN'T GET TO IT IN TIME.
LIKE I JUST, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE WE NEED TO ADDRESS LIKE RELATED TO THE WATER ISSUE WE HAVE IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
ALRIGHT, ARE THERE ANY, UH, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC? ALRIGHT, GO AHEAD SIR.
JAMES HOFF ONE SECOND AVENUE AGAIN.
UM, I'M GONNA GO RUN BACKWARDS SIR.
SORRY HE DIDN'T GET, I'M SORRY.
JAMES HOFFMAN, HOFFMAN 1199 SECOND AVENUE WARD.
UM, JOE, LEMME ASK YOU TO TRY TO CLARIFY SOMETHING FOR ME 'CAUSE I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHETHER OR NOT I HEARD IT CORRECTLY.
THE APPLICATION FOR THE PARK HOUSE HAS ALREADY BEEN SUBMITTED, IS THAT CORRECT? YES.
SO THAT APPLICATION IS NOW GRANDFATHERED INTO THE OLDER ORDINANCE AS OPPOSED TO ANYTHING PASSED TONIGHT? THAT'S RIGHT.
SO WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE, UM, TWO THINGS.
NUMBER ONE, UH, WANT TO, UH, BE SUPPORTED FOR THIS GENTLEMAN HERE, SHAUNA, OH, I'M SORRY, IT SHAWNA ROURKE 1 21 HOPWOOD ROAD HOP ROAD ROAD, H-O-P-W-O-D.
UM, FIRST OFF, I, I GOT THE IMPRESSION THAT MAYBE EVERYONE ISN'T ON THE SAME PAGE AS FAR AS STEEP SLOPE IS CONCERNED.
AND YOU HAD MENTIONED, UH, DEGREES OR, OR PERCENTAGE AND STUFF LIKE THIS.
I WAS LOOKING AT YOUR PANELS THAT ARE UP HERE BETWEEN EACH OF YOU GUYS ROUGHLY FOUR FEET.
IT'S 25, UH, PERCENT SLOPE IS, UH, A ONE FOOT RULER ON ONE SIDE SLOPE DOWN TO THE OTHER.
IT'S STEEP SLOPE IS NOT SOMETHING YOUR TRACTOR'S GONNA FALL OFF AND THAT'S A 25 DEGREE SLOPE.
SO THERE IS A LOT OF STEEP SLOPE OUT THERE THAT IF YOU GUYS CAN JUST ENVISION IN FRONT OF YOU, YOUR PANEL ONE FOOT UP ON ONE SIDE DOWN TO ZERO.
UH, SECONDLY, AGAIN, THIS GOES BACK TO, UH, JOE BREMOND'S COMMENT, UM, AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, I SPOKE TO MR. GRACE AFTERWARDS AND YOU SAID YOUR SITUATION IS NOT LOST.
THERE IS STILL A MEETING THAT'S COMING UP IN MARCH WHERE YOU CAN RAISE OBJECTIONS WITH THE NEW ORDINANCE.
IS N NO, BECAUSE WELL THEN IT MAKES NO SENSE FOR ME TO COME IN MARCH BECAUSE I WON'T, THERE WE ARE HAVING IT, IT TURNS OUT IT'S GOING TO BE APRIL AFTER
[01:00:01]
LIKE THAT.WE MAY HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE CONDITIONAL USE FOR PARKHOUSE.
NO, NO, I'M NOT REFERRING TO PARKHOUSE.
I'M MY COMMENT TO YOU AND, UH, THE REASON I WAS HERE, UH, FOR THAT MEETING WAS THE HOPWOOD ESTATES OR HOPWOOD FARMS, WHATEVER THEY WANT TO CALL THAT, THAT OH, YOU SAID THAT APPLICATION, THAT APPLICATION, THE APPLICATION HAS BEEN PUT IN.
NO, YES, THAT APPLICATION HAS BEEN PUT IN, BUT THEY ARE STILL COMING IN FOR FINAL LAND DEVELOPMENT.
AND SO YOU CAN, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ABOUT IT AT THAT MEETING, IT, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE IN MARCH.
I'VE RETURN TO IT, BUT IT, IT IS GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT LATER THAN THAT.
BUT IT WILL BE COMING UP, THERE'S STILL A FINAL PLAN APPROVAL FOR HOPWOOD.
THE, THE TOWNHOUSE IS ON HOPWOOD ROAD 1 72 HOPWOOD ROAD.
SO THE APPLICATION HASN'T BEEN, THE APPLICATION IS IN IT, IS THAT, UH, GO BACK TO MR. MOND.
HE SAID THAT IT WILL REFLECT THE OLD, UH, ZONING WHEN THE APPLICATION WAS ACCEPTED.
NOT, UM, WHAT WE WERE DISCUSS, YOU GUYS MAY BE NOTING ON TONIGHT, BUT WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH CONCERNS WITH THE PLAN AND OFFERING THINGS LIKE THAT IS I TALKED WHAT WAS WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
NO, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, UH, PUTTING, UM, UH, DETENTION AND RETENTION BASINS ON STEEP SLOPE AND, UM, GOING BACK, UM, PAST THE MINIMUM.
UM, I, I DON'T THAT SPECIFIC ABOUT IT.
MAYBE I MISINTERPRETED WHAT YOU WERE ASKING ME.
BUT THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DECIDED.
AND THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE RECEIVED THEIR ZONING RELEASE FOR, BASED ON THE OLD, UH, ZONING ORDINANCE.
THEY, THEIR HEARING WAS IN DECEMBER, I THINK.
WELL, THE ONLY THING THAT I, I CAN COME UP WITH IS, UH, THE ALASKAN, UH, DOOR PANEL THAT BLEW OFF.
THEY HAD WARNING LIGHTS ON COMING ON WEEKS BEFOREHAND, AND RATHER THAN GROUNDING THE FLIGHTS AND CHANGING STUFF, THEY JUST SAID, DON'T FLY OVER WATER.
BY THE GRACE OF GOD, THEY WERE AT LOW ALTITUDE WHEN THE DOOR DECIDED TO BLOW OFF.
I KNOW IT'S A BIT EXTREME, BUT WE HAVE THE SAME SITUATION HERE.
WE RECOGNIZE A PROBLEM, WE HAVE A POSSIBLE, UH, NOT STOPPING THE PROJECT, BUT REDUCING, UM, THE SIZE OF IT SO THAT IT'S NOT ENCROACHING ON STEVE'S SLOPE.
BUT FROM, UH, MR. BREDEN, BECAUSE WE ALL ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE STEEP, UM, ESPECIALLY PUTTING DETENTION BASES ON STEEPS SLOPE AND PUTTING IT RIGHT INTO THE STREAM.
UM, BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
UM, THE ANALOGY OF THE PLANE COMES INTO EFFECT.
WE'RE NOT GONNA DO ANYTHING BAD UNTIL SOMETHING CATASTROPHIC HAPPENED.
I THOUGHT WE HAD JUST GOT FINISHED TALKING.
WE DIDN'T WANNA HAVE THE SAME THING LIKE IDA HAPPEN AGAIN, AND WE'RE JUST ADDING TO THE PROBLEM.
SO I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GUYS LEGALLY WORK IT OUT, BUT SINCE YOU THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM, MAYBE WE CAN FIND SOME KIND OF LEGAL REMEDY TO, I'M NOT SAYING ELIMINATE THE PROJECT, BUT SCALE IT BACK SO THAT THOSE DETENTION BASINS ARE NO LONGER ENCROACHING ON STEEP SLOPE.
MIKE KJA, 1 0 4 BENNINGTON ROAD.
WHICH VERSION OF THE PARKHOUSE RIFKIN RORY FORD HOLDINGS APPLICATION, WILL IT BE THE INITIAL RENDERING OF THE TREELINE STREETS R ONE SPECULATED THE 1,203 UNITS OR THE 697 UNITS? OR IS THE ROOM FOR MISINTERPRETATION SPECULATION THAT IT CAN BE RENDERED? DO YOU MEAN WHICH ONE IS THE HEARING BEING SCHEDULED ON WHICH ONE IS GONNA BE THE EXISTING APPLICATION THAT IS GRANDFATHERED IN? THAT IS AN EXCEPTION TO THE, THE 1203.
SO THE 6 97 WAS A THEORIZED DEVELOPMENT, NOT A ACTUAL APPLICATION.
WELL, THAT WOULD'VE REQUIRED THE ZONING ORDINANCE CHANGE THAT WAS VOTED DOWN.
SO THERE'S NO RECORDED PLAN FOR THAT IN CONNECTION WITH THAT.
SO THE 1,203 UNITS WILL BE THE GRANDFATHERED IN THAT IS VERSED OUTSIDE THIS NEW ZONING CHANGE THAT IS THEIR ONLY PENDING PLAN.
UH, TORY BRIGHT, 3 6 4 VISTA DRIVE.
UH, AGAIN, A QUESTION ABOUT THE, THE GRANDFATHER PROCESS.
AND WHILE I'M REALLY KIND OF NAIVE WITH THIS, IF AN APPLICATION IS SUBMITTED 18 MONTHS AGO, THAT REQUIRED PER THE PLANNING COMMISSION DIRECTOR, THE UPPER PROVIDENCE
[01:05:01]
TOWNSHIP ENGINEERS, THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING REVIEW, THAT THERE WERE SIGNIFICANT MISSING ITEMS. HOW CAN AN APPLICATION BE THOROUGH AND GET GRANDFATHERED IN? YOU'RE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.I THINK YOU'RE, I THINK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
WHAT GRANDFATHERING MEANS THAT THE, THE ZONING THAT WAS IN PLACE WHEN THEY FILED IS WHAT APPLIES TO THE PLAN.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HOLES IN WHAT THEY SUBMITTED.
THAT'S, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A REFERENCE TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN, WHICH IS SOMETHING ELSE.
AND DOES NOT LAND DEVELOPMENT ALSO AFFECT STEEP SLOPES? WELL, YOU AND STEEP SLOPES AFFECT LAND DEVELOPMENT.
SO WHEN YOU FILE A LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN, THE ENGINEERS CHECK IT AGAINST THE, THE ORDINANCES TO SEE WHERE IS IT DEFICIENT.
SO THEY, ONCE THEY GO GET THEIR ZONING RELIEF FROM THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, THAT PIECE IS NOW NOT DEFICIENT.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NO LONGER DEFICIENT IN THAT ASPECT.
'CAUSE THEY HAVE THE ZONING RELIEF.
AND I GUESS THAT'S WHY I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW CAN IT BE GRANDFATHERED IN IF IT HASN'T GONE TO THE ZONING AND BEEN APPROVED? THE ONES, THE ONES THAT WERE, WERE GRANDFATHERED ARE THE ONES THAT WE WERE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT THAT ALREADY WENT TO A HEARING.
SO THIS, THIS PENDING APPLICATION FOR CONDITIONAL USE WITH OR FOR HOLDINGS HAS ACTUALLY NOT BEEN APPROVED AND HAS HOLES IN IT.
AND WHY WOULD IT BE GRANDFATHERED IN IS MY QUESTION? OH, WELL, BECAUSE THE APPLICATION WAS FILED 18 MONTHS AGO.
SO IT COULD HAVE BEEN, SO AN APPLICATION COULD HAVE BEEN GRANDFATHERED IN IF IT WAS FILED FIVE YEARS AGO.
BUT IT CONTINUES ON UNTIL, SO IT NEVER GETS AFFECTED BY THE NEW ORDINANCES OR THE NEW THAT'S ESSENTIALLY, SO YOU DON'T SEE THEM GO FIVE YEARS.
VERY OFTEN YOU DON'T SEE 'EM GO A YEAR VERY OFTEN.
BUT THIS PARKHOUSE BECAUSE IT WAS UNUSUAL, THEY COULD, THEY GRANTED A SERIES OF EXTENSIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE.
MOST OF THE TIME THEY, THEY, THE DEVELOPER GRANTED THE EXTENSIONS, THE 60 DAY SCHEDULING REQUIREMENT, THEY WAIVED IT.
SO AGAIN, I, I GUESS I'M STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW CERTAIN THINGS CAN GET GRANDFATHER IN IF THE, IF THE TOWNSHIP CHANGES CERTAIN THINGS IN ACCORDANCE TO THE BEST INTEREST, THE SAFETY OF THE COMMUNITY, WOULDN'T A NEW DEVELOPMENT HAVE TO ADHERE TO THAT SAME STANDARD? I, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO, THE LAND THE, THEY PUT A LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION IN YEAH.
ON A CERTAIN DATE THAT FREEZES THE ZONING THAT APPLIES TO THAT LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION.
NOW, AT SOME POINT IN TIME, THEORETICALLY, THE TOWNSHIP COULD SAY, WE DON'T WANT YOUR CONTINUANCES, WE'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE DEFICIENT IN THESE SPOTS, DENY IT, THEN THEY FILE A NEW ONE.
AND THEN YOU'RE JUST GOING AROUND AND AROUND WITH NUMEROUS APPLICATIONS.
UH, AGAIN, IT'S, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS IF THEY HAVE TO MEET THE OLD RULES VERSUS THE NEW RULES, HOW DOES THAT, HOW DOES THAT PROTECT THE COMMUNITY? THE ONLY THING I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT AFTER YOU HAVE FINAL PLAN APPROVAL FROM THE DEVELOPER SIDE, ONCE THEY HAVE FINAL PLAN APPROVAL, THEN IT'S PROTECTED FOR FIVE MORE YEARS.
SO IF THEY DON'T START CONSTRUCTION AND THEY WAIT SIX OR SEVEN YEARS, A PLAN LASTS FOREVER.
UM, IF ONCE THEY WAIT BE BEYOND FIVE YEARS, THEN IT HAS TO GET RE-REVIEWED TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE WITH NEW ORDINANCES THAT HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED IN THE INTERIM.
BUT THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO COUNTERPART FOR THAT, FOR PLANS THAT ARE PENDING ON THAT.
AGAIN, THAT POTENTIAL DEVELOPMENT OF 1,203 ALONG THAT LINE THAT YOU MAPPED OUT, MR. GRACE, THERE'S HOUSING AND ROADWAYS.
AND SO, SO THAT'S WHAT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT IS HOW DOES THIS NEW POTENTIAL PROPOSED AMENDMENT, OR YOU KNOW, HOW DOES, HOW DOES THAT GET PROTECTED? OR IT DOESN'T? WELL, WELL TWO THINGS.
NUMBER ONE, THERE IS A STEEP SLOPE ORDINANCES IN PLACE.
WE'RE NOT GOING FROM NO STEEP SLOPE JUST TO A STEEP SLOPE.
THIS IS A, THIS IS A, THIS IS THE ONLY THING WE COULD THINK TO MAKE IT BETTER.
RIGHT? AND IT IS MAKING IT BETTER, BUT IT'S NOT, BUT IT WON'T MAKE IT BETTER IF PARKHOUSE DOES GET DEVELOPED
THAT'S MY, THAT'S MY QUESTION.
I MEAN, I'M, I I DON'T MEAN TO BELABOR THE ISSUE.
I'M JUST WONDERING WHY IS IT, I, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A AN APPROVED PLAN, WHY WOULDN'T ANY PENDING PLAN HAVE TO MEET THE NO, THE ONLY, I THINK YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE PENDING ORDINANCE DOCTRINE.
THAT HAS TO DO WITH WHETHER AN ORDINANCE WAS FULLY MADE PUBLIC AND VETTED AND DISCUSSED BEF WHAT? AND THE APPLICATION CAME IN LIKE THE DAY BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY VOTED TO ADOPT IT, BUT IT WAS ALREADY PENDING.
AND THAT DOESN'T APPLY HERE EITHER, RIGHT? WELL, AND I'M NOT, UM, IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY THE ORDINANCE.
IT'S SPECIFICALLY IF DEVELOPMENT
[01:10:01]
WERE TO OCCUR, WHY AREN'T WE ADHERING TO THE SAME STANDARD THAT WE WOULD BE ADOPTING FOR SAFETY, FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE COMMUNITY FOR THAT PLAN? THAT'S SAFETY.SAFETY IS A SUBDIVISION AND LAND DEVELOPMENT ISSUE, NOT A ZONING ISSUE.
WELL, IF YOU COME DOWN ONTO ROUTE, UH, 20, UH, ONE 13 AND, UH, SECOND AVENUE WHEN THERE'S A STORM, YOU TALK ABOUT SAFETY, YOU COME ON DOWN, JOE, AND WE'LL SIT DOWN AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHAT SAFETY LOOKS LIKE WHEN THE WATER'S RUNNING OFF.
THAT DOESN'T, IT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT.
THAT'S NOT ANSWERING VERY SIGNIFICANT.
I'VE SEEN CARS HYDROPLANE OFF THE ROAD, SO IF WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE CARE OF THE WATER ISSUES, SO THANK YOU.
ANYBODY ELSE? VICTORIA SCHWARTZ, 2 48 BAXTER DRIVE.
SO I JUST WANT TO, YOU GOT THAT BAXTER DRIVE? BAXTER DRIVE, YES.
THANK, UM, I JUST KINDA WANNA REITERATE, LIKE I SAID, THERE IS A USB, YOU GUYS HAVE ALL ACCESS TO PICTURES AND ALSO, UH, VIDEOS.
SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS ORDINANCE IN PARTICULAR LOVER'S LANE, THAT'S THE ONE THAT, UM, THAT AFFECTS ME IN PARTICULAR.
AND THEN ALSO, OF COURSE, AMELIA STREET.
I HAVE FAMILY PROPERTY ON THERE.
UM, AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE STEEP SLIP ORDINANCES AND ALSO THE WATER.
ALTHOUGH I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THE CHANGES.
AND I THANK YOU GUYS FOR FINALLY BRINGING UP THE FACT THAT THERE'S GONNA BE ISSUES FLOODING THAT THERE IS, UH, ISSUES CURRENTLY WITH IDA AND SO FORTH.
UM, THE BIGGEST THING THAT I WANT TO KIND OF REITERATE IS, YOU KNOW, WE WERE DISCUSSING WHAT ELSE IS MOVING FORWARD, WHAT OTHER THINGS THAT YOU BROUGHT UP THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT.
UM, LOVER'S LANE IN PARTICULAR THAT PARCEL THAT NINE, I BELIEVE IT'S NINE ACRES THAT IS 15 TO 25% IN THE, THE HEIGHT IN THE STEEP SLOPES THROUGHOUT VARIATIONS.
UM, AGAIN, I KNOW WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT HERE, BUT JUST TO GIVE YOU AN AN ISSUE OR AN IDEA, HE WANTS TO BUILD 11 HOMES.
AND ORIGINALLY HE HAD A ROPE GOING THROUGH A CEMETERY THAT WAS NOT HIS, WHICH WOULD'VE AFFECTED MANY PEOPLE'S GRAVE ZONES.
THE FACT IS, WHEN YOU'RE BUILDING ON EIGHT, NINE ACRES, THE MAJORITY OF THAT LAND IS STEEP SLOPES.
AND AGAIN, THAT WILL HAVE ITS TIME.
ULTIMATELY WE'RE LOOKING AT, IS WE'RE LOOKING AT IMPERVIOUS LAND.
THERE'S SHALE, BLUE ROCK, RED ROCK, OR IT MIGHT BE RED ROCK AND BLUE ROCK.
BOTTOM LINE IS WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WATERWAYS AND STORM WATER MANAGEMENT, THE ULTIMATE THING IS THIS.
IF YOU CAN'T GET BLOOD FROM A STONE, HOW THE HELL IS STONE GONNA ABSORB WATER? THAT'S WHAT IMPERVIOUS MEANS.
SO AGAIN, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BUILDING, I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO MAKE THESE ORDINANCES, THE AMENDMENTS, AND I THANK YOU VERY MUCH SO FOR TRYING TO DO THAT.
SO IN THE FUTURE, IT IS CRITICAL, VERY, VERY CRITICAL.
WHETHER IT'S PARK HOUSE, POP, WOOD, LOVER'S, LANE, AMELIA STREET, WHEREVER IT IS, IT IS CRITICAL THAT WE LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE AND MAKE SURE WE START HOLDING THESE DEVELOPERS TO BUILD PROPERLY, NOT 11 HOUSES, WHERE MAJORITY OF THE LAND IS 15 TO 20% A STEEP SLOPE.
AND PLEASE LOOK AT THE PICTURES AND THE VIDEOS.
HI, SUSAN DENBY, 1 3 5 BENNINGTON ROAD, DENBY, DEN DENBY, D-E-N-B-Y.
UH, IN LISTENING TO THIS, UH, STEEP SLIP, I I'M VERY APPRECIATIVE THAT, THAT YOU'RE EVEN CONSIDERING MAYBE NOT GOING FORWARD AS THIS IS, UM, I'M JUST VERY NEW TO ALL THESE PROCESSES, BUT I URGE YOU IN HEARING EVERYTHING ABOUT THE 15%, LIKE WHY DO WE HAVE TO BREAK IT DOWN LIKE EVERY OTHER PLACE? WE ARE IN AN AREA THAT'S ALL AROUND THE RIVER, AND WHAT WE DO DOES IMPACT DOWNSTREAM.
YES, THERE'S UPSTREAM, BUT WE CONTRIBUTE TO FLOODING AND IDA, WE'RE GONNA GET MORE OF THOSE.
I MEAN, YOU SEE IN THE SPRING AND THE FALL, HOW MUCH WATER COMES DOWN IN THE DELUGE, IT'S ONLY GONNA GET WORSE.
AND SO I GET THAT YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO, UM, GET APPROVALS IN.
IT'S, I THINK MONTGOMERY COUNTY TOO, BUT THE CUTOFF MAYBE HAS TO BE 15% THAT THERE'S CRITICALITY, CRITICALITY.
UH, WE ARE IN A UNIQUE POSITION ALL AROUND THE RIVER, AND I WOULD HATE TO SEE PEOPLE LOSING THEIR HOUSES AGAIN BECAUSE NOBODY HELPS THEM GET THEIR HOUSE BACK, YOU KNOW? YEAH.
FEMA COMES IN AND, AND THEY'RE DEVASTATED.
SO I WOULD JUST ASK YOU TO RECONSIDER THAT.
[01:15:01]
IS DONE NOW, WHY CAN'T IT GO BACK TO THE, TO THE PROCESS AND FIX IT NOW? IS IT GONNA BE ANOTHER YEAR BEFORE IT'S FIXED? AND I DO THINK THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE CONDITIONS PUT ON PARK HOUSE, LOTS OF CONDITIONS.UH, I REALIZE IT'S GOING TO GET DEVELOPED, BUT THERE NEEDS TO BE A LOT OF CONDITIONS ON THAT.
ANYONE ELSE WITH QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? ALRIGHT, BOARD MEMBERS.
UH, STEVEN WAGNER, TWO 14 NORWOOD STREET, MONTCLAIR.
UH, I JUST HAD, I HAD A QUESTION.
I SAY THAT 15 PERCENTAGE AND THINGS LIKE WHAT DEF WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A STEEP SLOPE IN DEGREES? IS IT LIKE 15 DEGREES, 20 DEGREES? BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND A PERCENTAGE TO DEFINE A STEEP SLOPE.
COULD SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT A STEEP SLOPE DOES? DEFINE THAT.
THE PERCENTAGE, RIGHT? THE PERCENTAGE OF SLOPE BELOW 15, IT'S NOT STEEP SLOPE AND IT'S NOT REGULATED.
I'M SORRY, YOU'RE SAYING DEGREES.
SO, SO DEGREES IS 100 DEGREES IS A CIRCLE, RIGHT? NO, THREE HUNDRED AND SIXTY, THREE HUNDRED SIXTY DEGREES IS A CIRCLE, RIGHT? 100% IS A CIRCLE.
ARE WE TALKING DEGREES OF SLOPE OR ARE WE TALKING PERCENTAGE OF SQUARE FEET OF LAND DEGREES PER A PERCENTAGE INCREASE FROM LEVEL? IT'S PRETTY EASY TO GET.
IT IS JUST, UH, 25% IS, UM, THE INVERSE, TANGENT OF, UH, OF, OR THAT DOES ARE IF YOU LOOK, AND AGAIN, FREE, IMPOSSIBLE TO READ.
UM, LET ME JUST SEE IF I CAN ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT.
NO, OUR ORDINANCE THAT SAYS NATURALLY OCCURRING SLOPES OF 15% OR GREATER AS DEFINED BY A FIELD GENERATED TOPOGRAPHIC SURVEY, UM, USING TWO FOOT CONTOURS OF AT LEAST SIX FEET.
SO IT, IT IS A PERCENTAGE, IT'S NOT DEGREES, IT'S A PERCENTAGE OF CHANGE.
FIVE THAT, SO THAT PIECE SAID, YEAH, THAT'S IT, IT IS NOT REAL CLEAR TO ME.
UM, SO, UH, THE OTHER THING THAT I HAVE CONCERN ABOUT IS, SO YOU HAVE 1200 HOMES IN THIS AREA.
IF YOU LOOK AT WHERE THEY'RE DEVELOPING, IT'S, IT'S BASICALLY A PENINSULA.
UM, WHEN THIS PLACE FLOODS, HOW ARE THOSE 1200 VEHICLES GONNA BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF THAT AREA? 'CAUSE WHEN IT FLOODS AND THE BRIDGES ARE FLOODED, IT'S, IT'S A CATASTROPHE THE WAY IT IS.
NOW, WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT WORSE BY PUTTING ANOTHER 2000 VEHICLES RIGHT THERE SO THAT, YOU KNOW, EMERGENCY TRAFFIC EVACUATIONS AND FLOODS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THAT NEEDS TO BE THOUGHT ABOUT.
UM, THE OTHER THING, I THINK THE YOUNG LADY WHO WAS UP HERE EARLIER SPEAKING WAS TRYING TO SAY IS THAT, SO THEY PUT IN AN APPLICATION FOR, FOR THIS PROJECT, BUT THEY'RE MISSING SOME OF THE COMPONENTS OF THE APPLICATION.
THE APPLICATION SHOULD NOT BE ACCEPTED AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS BEING ACCEPTED UNTIL ALL COMPONENTS OF THE APPLICATION ARE COMPLETE.
YOU CAN'T JUST SUBMIT AN INCOMPLETE APPLICATION AND THEN HAVE IT BACKDATED TO THAT POINT.
WHEN EVERYTHING IS COMPLETE, THE CANDIDATES ARE BEING ACCEPTED, THE CONDITIONAL USE WOULD COME FIRST.
AND SO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN WAS NEVER THE, THE REVIEW OF THE PLAN ITSELF HALTED WHILE THE CONDITIONAL USE ISSUE WAS PURSUED.
SO THE PLAN WASN'T, IT WASN'T APPROVED WITH SHORTCOMINGS IN IT, IT JUST WAS NEVER GIVEN ANY APPROVAL OF ANYTHING.
BUT, BUT THE APPLICATION WAS ACCEPTED AND WHILE IT WAS INCOMPLETE, WELL, THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
WHEN, WHEN THE STAFF REVIEWS IT, WHEN IT FIRST COMES IN, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CHECK.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT NUMBER OF COPIES.
THERE'S CERTAIN NUMBER OF THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO DO WHERE IT WILL BE REJECTED RIGHT OFF THE BAT, BUT THE REST OF THE SHORTCOMINGS CAN'T BE DETERMINED UNTIL IT UNDERGOES REVIEW BY THE TOWNSHIP ENGINEER'S OFFICE.
AND SO THE CURRENT POLICY IS YOU ACCEPT THAT APPLICATION AT THAT POINT UNTIL ALL THE OTHER ISSUES ARE RESOLVED.
SO THEY GET THE ADVANTAGE OF HAVING IT BACKDATED TO WHEN THEY SUBMITTED THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION, RIGHT? YES.
IT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE, I THINK TO NOT, NOT MAKE THEM COMPLY WITH THE OLD CODES, BUT THEY COULD COMPLY WITH THE NEW CODES WHEN THEY HAVE A COMPLETE PACKAGE THAT THEY COULD SUBMIT TO THE TOWNSHIP.
[01:20:01]
UH, PERCENT SLOPE.SO TO WHAT THESE GUYS ARE SAYING, UM, YOU KNOW ABOUT SEAN CAN HEAR YOU.
OH, UM, YOU KNOW, ABOUT APPLICATIONS BEING COMPLETE.
ANDREW SEAMANS HERE HE IS FROM TOLL BROTHERS.
UH, AND AS YOU GUYS ARE AWARE, THE APPLICATION FOR MY HOME WAS INCOMPLETE.
AND THE CONSTRUCTION OCCURRED, ALL THE PERMITS AND INSPECTIONS WERE INCOMPLETE.
THE THIRD INSPECTION WAS NOT COMPLETE.
AND THEN THERE WAS A MAJOR CORRECTION LIST.
SO TO THAT POINT, WHAT HAPPENED WITH ME IN MY HOME AND LOTS OF OTHER HOMES IN THAT COMMUNITY THAT SEVERAL OF THESE PEOPLE WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR UP HERE AS WELL, YOU KNOW, HOW IS THAT ANY DIFFERENT THAN EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE TELLING THE PUBLIC? BECAUSE TO ME IT'S A MATERIAL MISSTATEMENT.
WHEN I HAVE EVIDENCE THAT YOU GUYS ARE NOT GONNA OBLIGE TO ANYTHING THAT YOU'RE SAYING, I DON'T NEED A COPY.
CAN WE MAKE IT ONE MORE THING QUICKLY? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PASSING OF THE, UH, ZUNI CHANGE, UH, YOU GUYS WANTED TO VOTE ON TONIGHT.
I AGREE WITH, UH, TOM GER THAT DOING SOMETHING IS BETTER THAN VOTING AND THEN GO AHEAD AND, UH, MAKE THE APPLICATION FOR THE, UH, THE CHANGE THAT YOU HAD WANTED TO MAKE FOR CONDITIONAL USE BETWEEN, UH, 15 AND 25.
UM, THAT WOULD BE INDEPENDENT.
THEN YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND, UH, REINSTITUTE, UH, PUBLIC HEARING AND EVERYTHING ON THE CHANGES THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO MAKE.
THE VARIANCES WOULD STILL GO TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, THOUGH, PLUS IT OVER 25 DEGREES PER PERCENT WOULD STILL GO TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
I MEAN YOU'RE VOTING ON THAT TONIGHT, CORRECT.
I'M JUST SAYING HE'S, HE'S MAKING REFERENCE TO MY SUGGESTION OF BETWEEN 15 AND 25 BEING CONDITIONAL USE INSTEAD OF SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
AND I'M, SO WHAT I'M ENCOURAGING IS THAT YOU PASS WHAT YOU HAVE TONIGHT BECAUSE THAT'S A BIG STEP FORWARD.
EVEN IF IT TAKES, UH, ONCE YOU HAVE THAT CHANGE MADE, THEN GO BACK AND, UH, FINE TUNE IT EVEN MORE THE WAY YOU GUYS WANT TO DO IT, WHICH I THINK IS A GOOD IDEA.
THAT WAY WE WON'T STOP PROGRESS.
SORRY,
MIKE K JACK 1 0 4 BENNINGTON ROAD.
AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING JUST ONE WEEK AGO, JEFF, YOU IDENTIFIED THAT THERE WERE ONLY THREE PROJECTS THAT WERE IN A FORM OF APPLICATION THAT WERE GONNA BE GRANDFATHERED IN TO BE EXEMPT FROM THIS.
LIKE I'VE JUST BEEN, I WALKED OUTSIDE TO PULL UP THE, THE RECORDING, BUT IT'S FOUR JOB SAID THREE, I CORRECTED HIM AND SAID FOUR.
BUT PARKHOUSE WAS NOT STATED IN THAT PARKHOUSE ISN'T SEEKING THAT RELIEF AT THIS POINT.
PARKHOUSE HAS NOT MADE AN OFFICIAL APPLICATION FOR RELIEF FROM THE STEEP SLOPE ORDINANCES.
THEY'VE MADE A CONDITIONAL USE APPLICATION BEFORE APPLICATIONS THAT WE TALK ABOUT THAT ARE, THAT HAVE SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR RELIEF THAT THE GRANDFATHERED IN ARE 1 72 HOPWOOD.
THAT MR. O BRIAN, SORRY, DID I GET THAT RIGHT? O WORK, O WORK.
THERE'S, UM, HOPWOOD, UM, THE, UH, TOLL FOLEY PROPERTY UP ON DEN HOUSE ROAD, THE AMELIA STREET, AND THE LOVER'S LANE PIECE THAT MR. SCHWARZ HAS MENTIONED.
SO IN THE EVENT THAT PARKHOUSE WERE TO BE SEEKING EXEMPTION FROM THIS, IT WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS A NEW APPLICATION? NO, BECAUSE THEIR ZONING ORDINANCE LOCKS WITH THEIR FIRST APPLICATION.
CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, JOHN.
SO BECAUSE THE CONDITIONAL USE WAS APPLIED FOR IN 2022, THAT'S WHERE THEIR ORDINANCE STARTS.
THAT'S WHERE THE, THAT'S THE ORDINANCE THAT THEIR WHOLE APPLICATION FALLS UNDER.
AND THAT IS THAT A TOWNSHIP LAW, A COUNTY LAW STATE LAW? IT IT IS STATE PRECEDENT.
IT'S, IT IS IT'S STATE LAW AS, AS INTERPRETED BY THE APPEALS COURTS OF THE STATE.
IT WAS A PRETTY LIMITED ATTENDANCE THAT WEEK.
WE WERE ALL BASING OUR INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THIS WAS GONNA BE REALLY IMPACTING BASED ON WHAT YOU GUYS IDENTIFIED.
AND THE PARK HOUSE WAS NOT GONNA BE EXEMPT FROM THIS.
SO THEY, THEY WERE NEVER PART OF THAT CONVERSATION.
'CAUSE THEY'VE NEVER SOUGHT THAT RELIEF AS YOUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CONDITIONAL USE IS SOMETHING THAT IS USUALLY DONE FIRST IF IT'S, IF IT'S PART OF A PROJECT, IF IT'S NEEDED.
THEN THERE'S THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS WITH THREE STEPS TO THAT.
[01:25:01]
MOST APPLICANTS WILL GO GET THEIR ZONING RELIEF.CONDITIONAL USE IS ACTUALLY A TYPE OF ZONING RELIEF THAT THEY COME HERE FOR.
AND IF THEY ALSO NEED OTHER ZONING RELIEF FROM THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, THEY'RE GONNA GO GET THAT AFTER THE CONDITIONAL USE IS OVER AND BEFORE THEY START THEIR LAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
SO IT'S, WE JUST, YOU'RE JUST NOT TO THAT POINT YET WITH THAT PROJECT.
AND JUST TO CONFIRM, THIS IS A STATE RULE, NOT A COUNTY RULE.
THE, THE RULE THAT YOU'RE LOCKED INTO, THE, THE, THE ZONING THAT'S WHEN YOU PUT THE APPLICATION IS THAT IS NOT A COUNTY RULE.
'CAUSE IN PHOENIXVILLE THEY CHANGED THAT.
BUT WHEN THEY PASSED A NEW ORDINANCE ON ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGING, THAT ANY NEW APPLICATIONS, EVEN OLD THAT WERE NOT PRIORLY APPROVED, WERE GONNA NEED TO REQUIRE A CERTAIN FORM OF EV VEHICLE CHARGING.
THAT'S NOT A ZONING ORDINANCE, BUT IT WAS SIGNED BY EXECUTIVE ORDER, BY THE BOROUGH SOLICIT OR BY THE BOROUGH MANAGER, THE BOROUGH OF COUNCIL PRESIDENT AND THE MAYOR THAT ANY NEW AND OLD APPLICATIONS THAT WERE NOT APPROVED WERE GONNA BE APPLICABLE TO THAT NEW CHANGE.
AND I'M ONLY SPEAKING RIGHT NOW WITH RESPECT TO ZONING ORDINANCES.
SO CAN WE MAKE THAT AS A FACTOR IN THIS VARIABLE? WHY NOT? BECAUSE THE LAW IS THAT IT STARTS THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE LOCKED IN WHEN THEY FILE THEIR APPLICATION.
SO WHY CAN'T WE MAKE A RETROACTIVE APPROVAL CHANGED BECAUSE OF THE, BECAUSE THE STATE LAW SUPERSEDES ANY ATTEMPT LOCALLY TO CHANGE A STATE LAW.
MR. KIN'S GOT A LOT OF MONEY THERE.
MIKE, THIS IS A QUICK CONCERNING, THANK YOU FOR THE ANSWERS.
BOARD MEMBERS, UM, IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE, UH, VOTING, I'LL TURN IT BACK OVER TO THE CHAIR TO CALL FOR A VOTE.
I'LL MAKE A, UH, ASK FOR MOTION TO ENACT ORDINANCE.
ASK FOR A MOTION TO ENACT ORDINANCE 6 0 2.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ENACT ORDINANCE 6 0 2 AMENDING SECTIONS 180 2 DASH 1 34 AND 180 2 DASH 1 35 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE BY LIMITING SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND REMOVING CERTAIN USES FOR STEEP SLOPES.
THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR COMMENTS AND FEEDBACK.
[NEW BUSINESS (ACTION/DISCUSSION ITEMS)]
NEW BUSINESS ACTION.SO THESE NEXT THREE I HAD MENTIONED PRIOR TO PUBLIC COMMENT.
SO THE NEXT THREE ARE GOING TO BE GETTING OUR NEW SPECIAL, UH, SOLICITORS IN TO HELP US THROUGH THIS CONDITIONING USE FOR PARK HOUSE.
SO THE FIRST ONE IS, UM, APPOINTING RUDOLPH CLARK, LLC TO SERVE SPECIAL COUNSEL TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
SO I'LL ASK FOR A MOTION ON THAT ONE.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPOINT THE LAW FIRM OF RUDI RU RUD RUDOLPH CLARK, EXCUSE ME.
ALL THOSE OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES.
ALL RIGHT, THE NEXT ONE IS APPOINTING HARRISON HARRIS PC TO REPRESENT THE TOWNSHIP IN THE CONDITIONAL USE APPLICATION, UH, FILED BY ROARS FOR POLLINGS, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPOINT THE LAW FIRM OF HARRIS AND HARRIS PC TO REPRESENT THE TOWNSHIP IN THE CONDITIONAL USE APPLICATION FILED BYFORD HOLDINGS LLC IN I'LL SECOND.
OKAY, I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
AND THE THIRD ONE IS, UH, CONSIDER SCHEDULING A CONDITIONAL USE HEARING FOR THE PROPOSED, UH, RESIDENTIAL CARE COMMUNITY FOR SENIOR CITIZENS ROYALS FOR WOR FOR HOLDINGS.
I CAN MAKE THE MOTION, UH, MOTION TO SCHEDULE INITIAL USE HEARING FOR PROPOSED RESIDENTIAL CARE COMMUNITY FOR SENIOR CITIZENS ROSEBURG HOLDINGS.
LLC PARKHOUSE APPLICATION PROPOSED DATE MARCH 12TH, 2024 AT 7:00 PM I'LL SECOND YET.
OH WAIT, I WANTED TO MAKE A CORRECT.
IT'S GONNA START AT 6:00 PM DO WE HAVE TO REDO THAT MOTION, JOE, OR NO? OKAY.
JUST WANTED EVERYBODY TO KNOW THEY'RE GONNA START AT SIX JUST BECAUSE IT'S BETTER FOR PEOPLE'S TIMEWISE TO GET HERE AT SIX O'CLOCK.
SO THAT'S WHAT THEY AGREED ON.
SO, UH, HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
ALL THOSE OPPOSED? MOTION, CARRIE.
[01:30:01]
IS, WE'RE GONNA TALK THIS THROUGH.I DON'T THINK THERE'S A MOTION ON IT.
THE 60 DAY NOTICE THAT IS REQUIRED TO THE PUBLIC, NO, IT'S NOT 60 DAYS NOTICE TO THE PUBLIC.
IT'S 60 DAYS TO SCHEDULE THE HEARING AS AT A STAFF LEVEL.
AND I THINK WE HAVE, UM, ON RECORD FROM PAST MEETINGS THAT THERE WOULD BE 60 DAYS NOTICE PROVIDED TO THE PUBLIC THAT HEARINGS WOULD BE SCHEDULED.
NOTICE IS IN THE MUNICIPAL, THE DEFINITION OF NOTICE FOR ZONING MATTERS IS IN THE MUNICIPALITY'S PLANNING CODE, TWO CONSECUTIVE WEEKS, NOT CLOSER THAN ONE WEEK FROM THE DATE OF THE HEARING AND NOT FURTHER OUT THAN 60.
SO WHAT WE WERE TOLD, YEAH, WE WOULD HAVE ADEQUATE NOTICE AND WE'RE GETTING THREE WEEKS NOTICE ON SOMETHING HAS BEEN THIS BIG OF AN ISSUE IN THIS TOWNSHIP FOR THIS LONG, AND IT'S, WELL, WE'RE GETTING THREE WEEKS NOTICE WHEN IT'S BEEN ON THE TABLE FOR, WAS IT FIVE WEEKS ALREADY? THE, THE AUTHORIZATION COMES THE WAY THAT IT COMES AROUND.
THEY, HE PULLED THE 60 DAY EXTENSION.
SO THE 60 DAY CLOCK STARTED RUNNING FROM THE DATE OF HIS LETTER.
AND SO THAT THIS IS THE FIRST MEETING THAT'S SCHEDULED TO AUTHORIZE THE ADVERTISEMENT AND MOVING FORWARD.
SO WHY WAS THAT NOT POSTED ON THE WEBSITE, WHICH HAS A SPECIFIC PAGE DESIGNATED ON THE TOWNSHIP'S WEB WEBSITE FOR PARKHOUSE UPDATES.
I CAN PULL UP THE MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETINGS.
I DON'T HAVE ANY, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT.
I ONLY KNOW THAT THERE'S A 60.
SO I RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S THE LAW.
BUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU'RE GIVING THE GROUP THAT WAS STANDING THAT REQUIRES LEGAL, UH, SUPPORT THREE WEEKS NOTICE FOR THE FIRST HEARING STANDING'S CONVERTED.
THE FIRST HEARING I HAVE, I'M NOT INVOLVED WITH THE PROCESS.
I HEARD A LITTLE DOUBT THAT YOU WON'T OBTAIN STANDING, I DON'T KNOW, STANDING'S BASED ON YOUR PROXIMITY TO THE PARCEL AND THINGS THAT ARE EASILY DETERMINED BY THE HEARING OFFICER.
I GUESS I'M LOOKING AT THE, THE SUPERVISORS.
WHY US THREE WEEKS NOTICE IF YOU WOULD'VE PUT IT ON THE WEBSITE ON JANUARY 13TH OR WHENEVER THEY ISSUED THAT THEY'RE GOING TO ENACT THEIR CONDITIONAL USE HEARING, THEN WE WOULD'VE BEEN ABLE TO REACT.
AND I'LL TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT.
SO THEN POSTPONE THIS UNTIL APRIL.
WE, WE DON'T, THERE'S, WE DON'T HAVE, IF YOU DON'T DO IT WITHIN THE 60 DAYS, THEY GET A DEEMED APPROVAL.
YOU HAVE, THIS IS, IT IS A HARD 60 DAY STOP IN THE MUNICIPALITY'S PLANNING CODE.
YOU HAVE TO CONVENE IT WITHIN THE 60 DAYS.
NOW YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO FAR ON THE FIRST NIGHT.
YOU CAN, AS LONG AS YOU GET IT OPENED, AS LONG AS YOU GET IT STARTED.
UM, THEN YOU'VE MET THE OBLIGATION.
I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT RU CLARK THE 10 ACTUALLY HAS A PACK THAT PAID JOSH SHAPIRO.
SO THAT LAW FIRM HAS A CONFLICT OF S OKAY.
I APOLOGIZE TO, I REALLY DO, IT WASN'T OUR INTENTION TO PUT YOU OFF KILTER OR ANYTHING.
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU CAN COME AND MAKE YOUR PARTY TO THIS JUST BY STATING YOUR PROXIMITY THAT FIRST MEETING.
WE'LL, WE'LL MAKE PARTY AND WE'LL CERTAINLY.
AND I WISH YOU WOULD ALLOW CITIZENS GROUPS TO CONSIDER, WE WILL PROBABLY START A GOFUNDME FOR THE LEGAL REPRESENTATION, UH, THAT IS GONNA BE REQUIRED BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THIS SEEMS TO BE A DONE DEAL.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT THESE ATTORNEYS GROUPS HAVE BEEN VETTED.
UM, WE DIDN'T GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THAT.
UH, GIVEN THE OBVIOUS, UH, ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.
UM, WE'LL ASSUME THAT THE TOWNSHIP DID THEIR VETTING OF THESE ATTORNEYS THAT THERE'S NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST, THERE'S NO BIAS, THERE'S NO PAYMENT TO ANY TYPE OF POLITICAL ROOTS THAT'S BEING INSINUATED.
SO I WOULD HOPE THAT THERE'S, THERE HAS BEEN SOME VETTING DONE.
IT'S, IT IS, IT'S COMPLETELY UP TO THE TOWNSHIP WHO THEY HIRE AS THEIR ATTORNEYS.
IT, IT'S COMPLETELY UP TO THEM.
IT'S, THEY DON'T HAVE TO VET IT WITH YOU.
IT'S THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN I GET AN ATTORNEY CONTACTING ME AS THE DEVELOPER SAYING WE'D LIKE TO HAVE AN OUT OF OFF THE RECORD CONVERSATION WITH YOUR GROUP SO THAT WE CAN SETTLE THE DEVELOPMENT ISSUES.
HOW THAT SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE TRUCK THAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE TWO ARE CONNECTED, BUT IT'S OKAY.
[01:35:01]
YOU.WE'LL PUT EVERYTHING ON THE WEBSITE, EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING GETS POSTED BECAUSE THAT WAS A MISS AND I ACCEPT THAT RESPONSIBILITY.
ALRIGHT, THE NEXT ONE UP IS HIGH TOP DEVELOPMENT AND WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS THIS.
THIS IS THE OLD QUEST BUILDING.
UM, DO WE WANNA MOVE ON TO THAT SKETCH? THERE YOU GO.
UM, IN I WOULD SAY OCTOBER, NOVEMBER, QUEST PUT THEIR BUILDING ON THE MARKET.
UM, I RECEIVED DOZENS OF PHONE CALLS FROM POTENTIAL DEVELOPERS ASKING WHAT COULD BE DONE ON THE PROPERTY.
RIGHT NOW, THE ZONING ALLOWS FOR AN OFFICE USE LIKE YOU SEE THERE TODAY.
UM, I HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT, WELL, COULD WE, YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THE TOWNSHIP FEEL ABOUT THIS USE? OR HOW DOES THE TOWNSHIP FEEL ABOUT THAT? USE ANYTHING FROM A SERVER FARM IN THE EXISTING BUILDING TO SELF STORAGE IN THE EXISTING BUILDING, LEVELING THE PROPERTY, PUTTING UP APARTMENTS, PUTTING UP TOWNHOUSES, PUTTING UP SINGLE FAMILIES ATTACHED HOUSES.
UM, HIGH TOP REACHED OUT AND, AND THEY BROUGHT FORWARD THE ONLY RETAIL, UM, PROPOSED.
I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO QUEST SELECTED AS THEIR PROPERTY, WHO THEY'RE SELLING THEIR PROPERTY TO.
I, WHEN I THINK WHEN HIGH TOP CALLED ME, OR MAYBE WHEN THEY CALLED ME THROUGH ALLISON, I SAID, LOOK, YOU'RE THE FIRST PERSON TO SAY THAT.
AND AS I SAID TO EVERYBODY, WHEN YOU'RE IN CONTROL OF THE PROPERTY, BRING A PLAN FORWARD.
WE'LL PUT YOU IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
YOU CAN MAKE YOUR CASE FOR WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.
AND IF IT'S BUY RIGHT, WE'LL GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
IF IT'S A ZONING CHANGE, WE'LL GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
YOU CAN SHOW THE PLANNING COMMISSION, GET THEIR COMMENTS.
THEN IF YOU WANT TO YOUR NEXT STEP, YOU CAN GO TO THE BOARD, GET THEIR COMMENTS.
AND THEN ONCE YOU SORT OF LOCK IN WHAT THE BOARD IS COMFORTABLE WITH, WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS COMFORTABLE WITH, OR WHAT YOU WANT TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY AS, AS THE PROPERTY OWNER, THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT TO, UM, WE, WE CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT THE PROCESS IS IN TERMS OF WHETHER IT NOT NEEDS A ZONING AMENDMENT OR A MAP AMENDMENT IN TERMS OF BEING REZONED, ZONING, TEXT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THE PROCESS IS.
SO RIGHT NOW WE'VE BEEN, THIS DEVELOPMENT HAS BEEN TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S OPINION WAS THAT THEY, UM, THEY GENERALLY THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD STEP.
THEY THOUGHT IT WAS A, A, A NICE FIRST STEP.
THEY, THEY THOUGHT IT WAS A, A DECENT DEVELOPMENT.
THEY WEREN'T A HUGE FAN OF, OF THE RESIDENTIAL, THE DENSITY OF THE RESIDENTIAL IN THE BACK.
UM, THEY THOUGHT IT WAS A LITTLE BIT MUCH.
UM, AND THEN HIGH TOP AND ALLISON CAME BACK WITH THIS PLAN, WHICH IS A SLIGHT ALTERATION I COULD PULL TOGETHER PLAN.
THEY REALLY IS, UM, GENERALLY THE SAME LAYOUT AND EVERYTHING TO THE RIGHT.
IT'S THE HOUSING THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, BUT I CAN LET ALLISON EXPLAIN THAT TO YOU AND I'LL, I'LL HAND IT OVER TO HER.
CAN I ASK, HOW LONG HAS THIS QUEST BUILDING BEEN EMPTIED? I WAS ACTUALLY INFORMED BY MS DOLLARS PROBABLY SIX MONTHS AGO THAT IN MAY LAST YEAR, IN MAY OF LAST YEAR, THAT THEY WERE TOLD THEY WEREN'T GOING TO BE, UM, THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO BE WORKING IN THE OFFICE ANYMORE.
AND ACTUALLY, I, I, I REMEMBER NOW THAT I WAS CONTACTED BY A, BY CVRE, WHICH I THINK WAS THE, THE MANAGING REAL ESTATE FIRM FOR QUEST.
YOU KNOW, ASKING ANY CLARIFICATION ON WHAT THEY COULD AND COULDN'T DO.
BUT AGAIN, RIGHT NOW ZONING ALLOWS FOR OFFICE USE AND RIGHT NOW THE ONLY THING THAT'S THERE IS THE PINK.
NO, THE PINK ISN'T IS A PROPOSED.
UM, I'M GONNA LET ALLISON WALK YOU THROUGH THIS 'CAUSE IT'S HER PRESENTATION.
ALISON ZARO ON BEHALF OF HIGH TOP DEVELOPMENT.
I DO HAVE WITH ME THIS EVENING DAVE LANCE GRONER, WHO IS THE CEO OF HIGH TOP DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND WITH ME WHO JUST MOVED UP NEXT TO ME IS HERB SCHULTZ, WHO'S THE ARCHITECT THAT PUT THIS PLAN TOGETHER AND I'LL HAVE HIM WALK YOU THROUGH IT.
UM, JEFF GAVE YOU A BIT OF A BRIEF INTRODUCTION.
THIS SITE IS CURRENTLY ZONED IO INTERCHANGE OFFICE DISTRICT, AND THAT IS A PRETTY SPECIFIC DISTRICT WHICH REALLY ONLY ALLOWS OFFICE CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, LABORATORY AND MANUFACTURING FOR PHARMACEUTICALS ACROSS THE STREET.
THE GSK CAMPUS IS ALSO ZONED IO DISTRICT, AND I BELIEVE THEY WERE ORIGINALLY DEVELOPED SORT OF, YOU KNOW, WITH THE SAME THING AT MIND.
AT ONE POINT, QUEST WAS PART OF THAT HOLDING SPUN OFF BECAME ITS OWN COMPANY.
UM, AND AS WAS JUST REFERENCED, UM, THEY NOTIFIED THEIR EMPLOYEES LAST, LAST MAY, I GUESS IT IS NOW THAT THEY WOULD BE WORKING FROM HOME PERMANENTLY DECIDED TO CLOSE THE OFFICE AND PUT IT ON THE MARKET.
UM, JEFF IS CORRECT THAT CB RICHARD ELLIS WAS THE, UM, BROKER FOR THAT.
I MYSELF RECEIVED A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT PHONE CALLS FROM DIFFERENT PEOPLE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT THINGS.
A LOT OF THEM AN INTEREST IN DOING MULTI-FAMILY ON THE SITE, BUT ULTIMATELY,
[01:40:01]
UM, HIGH TOP WAS SELECTED AS THE, UM, POTENTIAL PURCHASER.THEY DO HAVE IT UNDER AGREEMENT.
SO THEY ARE CURRENTLY THE EQUITABLE OWNER.
UM, THE SITE AND WHAT WE'RE GONNA WALK THROUGH TONIGHT, UM, THE SITE ITSELF IS APPROXIMATELY 27 ACRES.
UM, AND AS EVERYONE KNOWS IT WAS DEVELOPED WITH AN OFFICE BUILDING.
THERE ARE ALSO APPROXIMATELY 650 PARKING SPACES ON THE SITE.
IT IS A FULLY DEVELOPED SITE TODAY.
UM, THERE IS A MAIN ENTRANCE, UM, ON 29 AND UM, THERE IS AN EXISTING SMALL HOUSE I'LL JUST MENTION NOW, UM, THAT IS PROPOSED TO BE RETAINED.
IT'S SORT OF MOTHBALLED AT THE MOMENT, BUT AS YOU DRIVE BY ON BLACKROCK, IT IS THERE AND THAT WOULD BE INTEGRATED INTO THE SITE PLAN.
UM, IN LOOKING AT VARIOUS OPTIONS FOR THE SITE, UH, MY CLIENT'S INTERESTED, UM, IN DEVELOPING THE FRONT PART OF IT WITH A, A MIX OF RETAIL USES AND HERB CAN TALK MORE ABOUT THAT.
UM, IN THE BACK WE WERE LOOKING AT A TRANSITIONAL AREA.
UM, THERE IS A NATURAL DIVIDE ON THE PROPERTY.
THERE IS AN EXISTING PARKING FIELD BACK THERE TODAY.
BUT THE IDEA WAS TO CREATE A TRANSITION BETWEEN, UH, THE COMMERCIAL USES AND THE TOWNSHIP, UH, LAND THAT ABUTS THE PROPERTY.
UM, SO WE DID APPEAR FOR THE, BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN JANUARY.
UM, AND THAT PARTICULAR LAYOUT OF RESIDENTIAL THAT WE SHOWED THEM, THEY DIDN'T TOTALLY LOVE AND THEY ASKED US TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND FURTHER REFINE IT.
AND HERB WILL WALK YOU THROUGH WHAT CHANGES WERE MADE.
UM, THIS IS ALSO A STACKED TOWNHOUSE, SO IT IS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF TOWNHOUSE USE THAT EXISTS IN THE TOWNSHIP TODAY, AND IT WOULD CREATE A DIFFERENT PRICE POINT THAT'S MORE OF A WORKFORCE HOUSING OR ATTAINABLE HOUSING PRICE POINT THAN A LOT OF WHAT EXISTS IN THE TOWNSHIP TODAY.
UM, THIS PARTICULAR PLAN IS BASED ON A COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER DISTRICT THAT YOU DO HAVE IN YOUR CURRENT ORDINANCE WITH THE CAVEAT THAT OBVIOUSLY RESIDENTIAL IS NOT PERMITTED IN THAT DISTRICT TODAY, BUT THAT WAS THE BASIS OF THIS LAYOUT.
THERE'S ONLY, THERE'S ONE OTHER PROPERTY IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT'S CURRENTLY ZONED THIS, BUT IT DOES LEND ITSELF TO A MIX OF COMMERCIAL USES IN RETAIL, UH, WHICH IS WHAT WE WERE LOOKING AT FOR THE SITE.
UM, PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER, IT'S ITS OWN UNIQUE ANIMAL, SO WE HAD INITIALLY LOOKED AT THAT, BUT IT MADE MORE SENSE TO LOOK AT COMMUNITY SHOPPING CENTER.
SO WITH THAT, I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE HER WALK YOU THROUGH THE PLAN.
WE HAVE SOME RENDERINGS AS WELL, AND HE CAN EXPLAIN, UM, THE THOUGHT PROCESS AND WHAT'S LAID OUT ON THIS PLAN.
ALRIGHT, SO I WILL, UH, QUICKLY WALK THROUGH THE PLAN FOR THE FOLKS THAT PROBABLY HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET, AND THEN, UM, WE CAN SORT OF TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE ADAPTED FROM THE LAST PLANNING BOARD, UH, MEETING.
SO HERE'S, UH, ROUTE 29 AND BLACKROCK.
THE EXISTING QUEST BUILDING IS BASICALLY HERE, AND AS ALLISON SAID, THERE'S PARKING FIELDS HERE AND BACK HERE.
UH, THERE'S A MAIN INGRESS, EGRESS, UH, CURB CUT WITH, UH, RIGHT TURN LANE EXISTING HERE.
AND ONE OF THE REALLY NICE THINGS ABOUT THIS SITE IS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE, UH, FOR VEHICULAR CIRCULATION.
SO WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO REUTILIZE ALL OF THAT CIRCULATION.
YOU'LL SEE ON THE NEXT SLIDE IN A MINUTE, UH, WE HAVE AN OVERLAY THAT KIND OF SHOWS THIS PLAN OVERLAY ON A, UH, GOOGLE EARTH VIEW, SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND.
BUT BASICALLY THE IDEA IS THAT, UH, THE QUEST DIAGNOSTICS BUILDING IS HERE.
WE WOULD DEMO THAT AND WE WOULD INSTALL, UH, SORT OF A LARGER, UM, BOX RETAIL WITH, UH, AN ANCHOR GROCER, UH, A SERIES OF SOME RESTAURANT PADS HERE AND HERE, POTENTIALLY A BANK PAD HERE, AGAIN, UTILIZING THE, UH, EXISTING INGRESS.
UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UH, JEFF, UH, WE HAD HEARD FROM JEFF VERY EARLY ON WAS THAT, UH, WE WANTED TO HAVE A, A NICER SORT OF CORNER BUILDING HERE, UH, TO BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, TO GIVE SOME VIEW PLANES ONTO THE, UH, THE INTERSECTION AND TO SORT OF ESTABLISH THIS AS A GATEWAY.
UH, AS ALLISON SAID, UH, THE REAR PORTION OF THIS PROPERTY IS, UH, PROPOSED TO BE TOWNHOUSES, SPLIT TOWNHOUSES.
SO RIGHT ALONG THIS STREET WAY HERE, UH, THERE'S A, THERE'S A, A DRY CREEK BED THAT RUNS ALONG HERE WHERE THESE TREES SORT OF ARE.
AND THIS AREA ACTUALLY ELEVATES QUITE A BIT FROM THIS SIDE.
AND SO, UH, IN AN EFFORT TO SORT OF STEP DOWN THE USE, UH, FROM THE HEAVIER, UH, RETAIL DOWN TO, UH, TO WHERE THE PARK IS, WE THOUGHT THAT, UH, PUTTING IN SMALLER, UH, RESIDENTIAL LOADING, UH, AND, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO MAKE IT A WALKABLE UH, NEIGHBORHOOD WAS A, WAS A PRETTY THOUGHTFUL WAY TO, TO TREAT THIS LARGE SITE.
[01:45:01]
UM, IF YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, RIGHT, SO HERE'S, UH, THIS, SO THIS IS THE CURRENT PROPOSED PLAN, AND THIS IS THE PLAN THAT WE CAME TO PLANNING BACK IN, I GUESS IN JANUARY.UM, AND ONE OF THE BIG FEEDBACKS THAT WE HEARD WAS, YOU KNOW, NUMBER ONE DENSITY BACK HERE IS, IS PRETTY ROUGH.
WE WANTED TO DECREASE THE DENSITY AND ALSO JUST TO GIVE, UH, YOU KNOW, SOME, SOME THOUGHT TO MAKING IT LESS SORT OF, UH, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE WORD IS BARRETT STYLE, UH, AND TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT FEEL MORE MEANDERING, MAKE THE STREET WAVES A LITTLE A LITTLE BETTER FOR VIEW SHEDS.
AND JUST TO BREAK UP THE BUILDINGS IN GENERAL, WE HAVE A LOT OF, UH, UH, TENANTS WEALTH PACKS HERE.
SO THESE ARE, THESE ARE TOWNS THAT THEY'RE ALL BUTTED UP AGAINST EACH OTHER, SO THEY ALL SHARE SORT OF THE SAME BUILDING FOOTPRINT.
AND, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY REALLY ASKED US TO LOOK AT WAS TO BRING THE SCALE OF THOSE BUILDINGS DOWN FROM A, FROM A QUANTITY STANDPOINT.
SO YOU CAN SEE THAT WE'VE DONE THAT HERE.
WE HAVE MOSTLY FOUR PACKS AND FIVE PACKS, UH, ALONG THIS AREA.
SO THIS IS THE OVERLAY THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.
SO YOU CAN SEE HERE'S THE CROSS DIAGNOSTICS BUILDING AND AS YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THIS INFRASTRUCTURE HERE, ALL OF THESE ROADWAYS, THIS IS ALL EXISTING.
UM, THE IDEA AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THIS LARGE PARKING LOT HERE, IT WOULD BE REPLACED WITH, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY TOWNHOUSE, FOOTPRINTS, UH, SIDEWALKS, DRIVEWAYS, BUT ALSO A LOT OF GREEN SPACE.
UM, ONE OF THE NICE THINGS ABOUT THIS PLAN AND, AND SORT OF BREAKING UP THESE BUILDINGS, UH, PROVIDED US A WAY TO SORT OF, YOU KNOW, KIND OF PUSH AND PULL THE ORIENTATION OF THESE BUILDINGS TO CREATE THESE, THESE NICE LITTLE NOOKS.
AND YOU'LL SEE IN A MINUTE I HAVE A FEW RENDERINGS, UH, OF SOME OUTDOOR SPACE HERE THAT WE CAN SEE, UH, YOU KNOW, BEING USED AS A COMMUNITY GATHERING SPACE, BUT ALSO, UH, HAVING SOME WALKWAYS THAT SORT OF CONNECTS TO THE PARK, PARK HERE.
UM, AND JUST, YOU KNOW, PLACES FOR ACTIVITY WALKING, WE, WE HEARD A LOT, UH, YOU KNOW, WALKING PATHS, BIKE PATHS, THINGS LIKE THAT ARE, UH, ARE OF, OF HIGH DEMAND.
UH, CAN YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE? SO HERE'S AN OVERHEAD VIEW OF THE WHOLE, UH, THE WHOLE DEVELOPMENT.
HERE'S THE RESIDENTIAL IN THE BACK, UH, SOME SMALLER BLUES ON THE FRONT.
THERE'S THE EXISTING INGRESS EGRESS AND THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE ANCHOR GROCER AND A COUPLE OF OTHER, UH, MID BOX TENANTS.
AS YOU CAN SEE IN THIS PHOTO, WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO KEEP MOSTLY THE BUFFER HERE FROM THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE AND OVER HERE FROM THE PARK NEXT.
UH, SO HERE'S JUST SOME VIEWS OF THE LARGER GROCER.
UM, YOU KNOW, UH, JUST SORT OF THE, THE, THE LARGER BOX, UH, TENANT SPACES AND AN OVERHEAD VIEW NEXT.
SO THESE ARE SOME OF THE SMALLER TENANT, UH, FRONT, FRONT FACING RETAIL TENANTS.
THERE'S A BANK HERE, OBVIOUSLY A COUPLE OF RESTAURANTS HERE.
SO WE KIND OF SEE ALL OF THESE AREAS BEING PLACES WHERE WE CAN HAVE ACTIVATED SPACES, UH, BOTH FOR THE TENANTS IN THE RESIDENTIAL BEHIND, UH, BUT ALSO FOR THE LARGE DEVELOPMENTS ACROSS THE STREET.
THERE'S ALREADY WALKWAYS, UH, FROM THAT AREA THAT CONNECT ONTO OUR, ONTO OUR PROPERTY.
WE WOULD SEEK TO, UH, SORT OF CONNECT THOSE WALKING PATHS AND, AND GET THEM ALL THE WAY OVER TO THE PARK NEXT.
AND SO, YEAH, SO HERE'S SOME VIEWS OF THE TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT ITSELF.
SO THIS IS A VIEW LOOKING FROM SORT OF THE GROSSER, UH, AREA.
YOU CAN SEE WE, IT'S, IT'S ELEVATED, LIKE I SAID, SO THERE'S A VERY NATURAL BUFFER THERE.
WE WOULD SEEK TO KEEP A LOT OF THE TREES, PLANT MORE TREES, REALLY GREEN, GREEN UP THE, THE, THE AREA THERE.
UH, THIS IS A VIEW SORT OF, UH, LOOKING FROM THE WHAT WOULD BE PLANNED NORTHWEST CORNER.
SO, UH, THIS, THIS IS A, THE PATHWAY THAT WOULD CONNECT TO THE PARK.
UM, SO AGAIN, WE, WE SEE THIS BEING USED AS, UH, A NICE WALKING TRAIL FOR THE PEOPLE TO LIVE HERE, BUT ALSO THE PEOPLE, UH, ACROSS THE WAY.
AND THEN, UM, THESE ARE JUST, AS I WAS SAYING BEFORE THIS, SO THESE ARE SOME OF THE TOWNHOUSES, THE SMALLER CLUSTERS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF PUSH AND PULL AND ANGLE IN AND OUT.
AND WHAT IT DOES IS IT ACTUALLY GRAZ THESE NICE OUTDOOR SPACES, GREEN GATHERING SPACES THAT ARE, UH, THAT WE, YOU KNOW, THINK WILL BE USED BY THE, UH, BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO THAT'S THE QUICK RUN THROUGH.
UH, I GUESS I'LL JUST OPEN IT UP TO QUESTIONS.
YEAH, SO, UH, THIS, THIS NEW PROPOSAL IS 62 SPLIT TOWNHOUSES.
IT WAS PREVIOUSLY 74 TOWN SPLIT TOWNS AND THIS ONE IS 62, SO WE DECREASED THE BY 12.
WHAT'S THE PRICE RANGE? YOU SAID IT'S MORE AFFORDABLE SUPPOSEDLY, RIGHT? YEAH, IT'LL, IT'LL BE IN THREE, FOUR ON.
SO IT'S STILL PRETTY MUCH, OKAY.
AND THEN LET ME ASK THIS, VICTORIA, I, OH, SORRY, WE'RE NEVER GONNA PICK IT OUT.
YOU CAN COME UP AND, I MEAN, IF THE BOARD IS OKAY WITH IT, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE BOARD'S PREFERENCE IS, BUT YEAH, JUST A QUESTION BECAUSE THIS IS REALLY SOME GOOD INFORMATION.
YEAH, I JUST, I JUST ASK IF THE BOARD'S ALLOWING COMMENT, PLEASE COME UP HERE BECAUSE WE WILL NEVER HEAR YOU.
[01:50:01]
UM, OKAY.'CAUSE I, I KIND FOR SORT OF BUILDINGS.
UM, I GUESS THE QUESTION THAT LIKE I, I RESPECT THE FACT THAT YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER IN TERMS OF TAKING THE EXISTING BUILDINGS AND YOU KNOW, TRYING TO DO SOMETHING USEFUL.
UM, THE TOWN HOMES LITTLE IFFY ON 'CAUSE WE'RE, WE NEED THEM AND WE'RE BUILDING AND THEY'RE TRYING TO BE MORE AFFORDABLE.
UM, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, KEEP IN MIND IN TERMS OF TRACK TRACK'S BAD NOW, UM, I APPRECIATE THE GREEN SPACE, BUT I GUESS THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE THEM MORE AFFORDABLE, JUST SO I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE THEM MORE AFFORDABLE AND WE WANT TO HAVE OTHER STORES IN CORRECT, LIKE, LIKE SHOPPING CENTER KIND OF THING? CORRECT? YES.
THAT'S TO JUST WHAT I WANTED TO MAKE.
UM, IN TERMS OF ADDING MORE HOUSING, AGAIN, WE LOOK AT TRAFFIC IMPACT AND FLOODING, WHICH THAT WILL HAVE ITS DAY.
SO I'M SURE THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING STAGES.
REALLY, THE QUESTION RIGHT NOW FOR THE AUDIENCE AND MOSTLY FOR THE BOARD IS, IS USE, I MEAN DESIGN ELEMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT WILL GET WORKED OUT AND YOU KNOW, WE WILL HAVE MEETINGS ABOUT THAT AND YOU KNOW, THEY'LL COME BACK TO THE PROCESS.
IT REALLY IS BIG USE AND, AND SORT OF THE STEPS FORWARD WITH, DO WE, DOES THE BOARD EVEN HAVE A FLAVOR TO HEAR ANY CHANGE TO THE ZONING? AND, AND THAT'S SORT OF THE QUESTION, YOU KNOW, AND THAT WOULD BE THE RESIDENTIAL PART.
I'M NOT TO DO THIS RESIDENTIAL, THAT'S JUST MY OWN 2 CENTS TO DO THIS WOULD TAKE A COMPLETE REWRITE OF, OF THE, OF THE COMMUNITY REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER DISTRICT, WHICH RIGHT NOW ALLISON ALLUDED TO IT, IT'S THE TARGET GIANT STAPLES, UM, OFF OF RIDGE PIKE AND TOWNSHIP LINE.
THAT IS THE ONLY DEVELOPMENT THAT IS DONE WITH CRSC.
IT APPLIES A FEW OTHER PLACES IN THE TOWNSHIP, BUT NOTHING'S EVER REALLY BEEN TRULY DEVELOPED UNDER THAT.
SO CRSC WOULD TELL ME WHAT IS IN THAT.
IT'S, IT IS MOSTLY LARGER BOX RETAIL.
IT'S WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE UP THERE AT THE TARGET AND, AND GIANT OFF OF RIDGE PIKE, THAT DEVELOPMENT SORT OF CAPTURES IT TO A T LARGE BOX RETAIL IN THE BACK, SMALLER BOX RETAIL AND PAD SITES IN THE FRONT.
THAT'S THE ONLY AREA IN OUR TOWNSHIP THAT WE HAVE THAT YES, THE WEGMANS ISN'T CONSIDERED THAT 'CAUSE THEY'RE SMALL.
WEGMANS IS, IS IS WRITTEN UNDER A DIFFERENT, THAT'S UNDER A A USE GROUP ALLOWANCE UNDERNEATH THE, THE IO, THE INTERCHANGE OFFICE THREE.
AND THAT'S GOT A LONG LIST OF THINGS THAT IT'S REALLY SORT OF A CATCH ALL FOR INTERCHANGE OFFICE.
BUT THAT WAS WRITTEN WITH A RETAIL COMPONENT AND IT WAS MORE OF A, IT WAS SUPPOSEDLY DESIGNED MORE AS A TOWN CENTER WITH THE WAY IT'S DESIGNED WITH THE MAIN ROAD IN THE MIDDLE WHERE THOSE, WHERE THE MOVIES THEATER IS AND ALL OF THAT.
SO IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A, A TOWN CENTER FEEL TO IT.
THIS, WHILE I'VE ENCOURAGED THAT FOR THE CORNER TO HAVE SOME GATHERING SPACE ISN'T REALLY GEARED TOWARDS THE SAME TYPE OF RETAIL DEVELOPMENT AS WAGONS AS THE PROVINCE TOWN CENTER.
THERE'S COMPONENTS OF THAT THERE, BUT IT'S NOT, THIS IS A, A LITTLE DIFFERENT WELL THE BIG CHANGE WOULD BE ADDING RESIDENTIAL UNITS TO THAT.
BECAUSE CURRENTLY I ALLOW THAT IN ANY OF THOSE, I HAVE NOT LOOKED AT THIS AT THE CRSC ORDINANCE VERSUS WHAT THEY CAN DO HERE AND WHAT IT ALLOWS 'EM IN TERMS OF SPACING AND IN TERMS OF PARKING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
I HAVE NOT LOOKED AT THAT AT ALL.
I I'VE NOT BROKEN THAT DOWN YET.
UM, YES, RESIDENTIAL'S COMPLETELY NEW TO THAT DISTRICT THE RIGHT NOW FOR IO, THE BASIC IO ALL OF THIS IS NEW.
HOW OLD IS THAT BUILDING? IT'S ON THE PROPERTY NOW.
I WAS GONNA SAY EARLY NINETIES.
SO YEAH, I HAD TO DO A LITTLE RESEARCH FOR THE, I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BUYING IT TODAY.
YEAH, I MEAN, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, IF WE WERE LOOKING AT THE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER DISTRICT, OBVIOUSLY THE RESIDENTIAL IS NOT PERMITTED TODAY, BUT WE DID DESIGN THE REST OF THIS PLAN PRETTY MUCH IN KEEPING WITH THAT DISTRICT.
ONE OF THE CONVERSATIONS WE'VE HAD ACTUALLY IS ABOUT THE PARKING, UM, THE PARKING REQUIREMENT IN THAT DISTRICT IS SOMEWHAT ANTIQUATED.
MOST SHOPPING CENTERS ARE NOT PARKED AT THAT TODAY.
UM, EVEN THE IO THREE DISTRICT PROVIDE AND TOWN CENTER IS ONLY, I THINK FOUR PER THOUSAND.
I DID LOOK AT THAT QUICKLY TODAY, UM, JUST TO PUT IT IN CONTEXT, BUT I WILL SAY THE WAY WE ACTUALLY LAID OUT THIS PLAN RIGHT NOW, WE ARE PRETTY CLOSE TO THAT REQUIREMENT.
IT PROBABLY HAS MORE PARKING ON IT THAN NEEDED.
BUT WE WERE, WE WERE TRYING TO GET AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE, UM, TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT PERMITS.
SO FROM A, OF THE RETAIL ASPECT OF THIS, THIS DOES FIT INTO THAT DISTRICT.
THE DISTRICT BREAKS IT DOWN INTO TWO PARTS.
SO THERE'S WHAT'S CALLED A COMMUNITY SHOPPING CENTER AND THEN WHAT'S CALLED A REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER.
THIS REALLY FITS MORE INTO THE COMMUNITY SHOPPING CENTER.
REGIONAL WOULD BE YOUR OLD SCHOOL, LIKE VERY BIG BOX, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY NOT WHAT'S PROPOSED.
LET ME CORRECT MYSELF, TARGET AND LOWE'S, WHILE TARGET LOWS DOWN OAKS THAT IS DESIGNED UNDER CRSC TWO.
[01:55:01]
A SPECIAL CASE THOUGH BECAUSE THERE'S A-C-R-S-C OVERLAY THAT'S BASED ON THE DISTANCE FROM 4 22 AND INTERCHANGE THAT'S BEEN IN PLACE TO SLOWLY CONVERT THAT WHOLE DEVELOPMENT WITH THE EXPO CENTER AND ALL OF THAT TO CONVERT THAT TO A FULL RETAIL, A REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER.WE'VE OBVIOUSLY STALLED OUT WITH THAT.
AND, AND THERE'S A WHOLE, I CAN GO INTO A WHOLE LOT OF ISSUES THAT WE HAVE WITH, WITH HOW THAT CRSC APPLIES DOWN THERE, BUT TARGET AND LOWE'S THEMSELVES WERE DESIGNED UNDER THAT ORDINANCE AS WELL.
AND WE'D BE LOOKING AT THE COMMUNITY SHOPPING CENTER PART OF THAT DISTRICT, NOT THE REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER PART.
THE DISTRICT, I, MY, MY APPRECIATE YOU SHOWING THIS EARLY IN THE PROCESS.
MY, MY THOUGHT ON THIS IS YOU CAN'T JUST LOOK AT GLAXO HERE.
I MEAN, THERE IS A LOT OF LAND ACROSS THE STREET.
THE PANDEMIC HAS CHANGED HOW BIG BUILDINGS ARE BEING USED FOR BUSINESS.
AND IF GLAXO WOULD LEAVE, IF A DOW'S THERE, I DON'T EVEN THINK DOW'S IN THEIR BUILDING ANYMORE.
THERE'S, I, WE NEED TO STEP BACK AND, AND REFOCUS ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BECAUSE THIS IS THE START OF KING OF PRUSSIA IN OUR BACKYARD.
WE HAD THAT, WE HAD THAT DISCUSSION SUMMER TWO YEARS AGO WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE, 200, 400 CAMPUS DRIVE, 200, 400 CAMPUS DRIVE IS JUST ABOUT EMPTY.
I THINK THERE'S TWO OR THREE TENANTS IN THERE.
1000 CAMPUS DRIVE IS COMPLETELY EMPTY.
UM, AND WE DID HAVE THAT INTERNAL DISCUSSION AT OUR PLANNING AND ZONING MEETING AND WE SORT OF SAID, LET'S HOLD THE LINE.
LET'S NOT DO ANYTHING UNTIL WE SEE WHAT COMES IN.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS WHERE WE WANT TO GO WITH IT.
THE RETAIL, THE JOBS, THE TAXES, ALL THAT STUFF.
BUT THE DENSITY HOUSING AND YOU START OVER UP HERE.
AND I'M NOT, I'M NOT DEFENDING THEIR PLAN.
THIS, I WILL TELL YOU THOUGH, THAT, THAT THAT D RECENTLY RESIGNED THEIR LEASE.
THEY'RE THERE FOR ANOTHER FIVE YEARS OR ANOTHER EIGHT YEARS FOR JUST FOR, I JUST HAPPENED TO SEND THAT ARTICLE TO BRIAN LIKE A WEEK AGO.
AND I, I HOPE MY TOWNSHIP IS HERE FOR HUNDREDS OF MORE.
BUT I, I CAN'T MAKE THEM FIND THAT LONG OF A LEASE.
'CAUSE WE DON'T WANT THE BUILDINGS EITHER.
BUT GO, UH, AL
UM, FORMER SUPERVISOR FOR ANYBODY WHO DOESN'T KNOW, UM, I WAS AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UM, AND I SAW THIS PLAN QUESTIONED IT.
UM, BUT THE REALITY IS, UH, WE HAVE THREE OFFICE BUILDINGS ACROSS THE STREET THAT ARE VACANT, UM, COMPLETELY VACANT, UM, TAKEN BACK BY THE BANK.
UM, AND THIS, THIS, UH, OPTION HERE IS, IS IS SOMETHING THAT THE TOWNSHIP NEEDS TO LOOK AT HOLISTICALLY FOR CERTAIN AREAS OF THE TOWNSHIP.
THIS IS IN THE MIDDLE OF, OF OUR COMMUNITY.
AND, UM, TO SAY THIS IS A START OF KING OF PRUSSIA.
IF AT UPPER MARION, THE KING OF PRUSSIA THING WAS THE RESULT OF A LAWSUIT WHEN THE TOWNSHIP DID NOT WORK WITH DEVELOPERS.
SO I'D BE HAPPY TO EXPLAIN IT IN THE BACK SOMETIME AFTER THE MEETING.
BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE TOWNSHIP DOESN'T WORK WITH THE DEVELOPER.
SO TO SAY THAT THIS IS THE START OF KICK COMPRESSION.
I UNDERSTAND YOUR, YOUR POINT MR. YAGER.
BUT, UM, IF THIS IS A, A, A, UM, A USE WHICH HAS RETAIL AND RESIDENTIAL AND, AND WHAT THEY DID, UM, I I DID A LOT, I GOT A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF STACK TOWN HOMES INSTEAD OF A SINGLE TOWN HOME AT A MILLION BUCKS.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE CUT IN HALF AND IT'S A MORE REASONABLE HOME AS OPPOSED TO A, YOU KNOW, A HOME THAT WE'RE GONNA SEE ON HOPWOOD ROAD.
BUT, UH, THIS MIXED USE IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT BECAUSE THE OFFICE IS DYING AND IT'S, IF IT COMES BACK, I'LL BE SURPRISED.
I THINK WE'LL ALL BE SURPRISED DOWN THE ROAD.
UH, WHO KNOWS, UH, GSK COULD PICK UP AND MOVE.
SO WE CAN'T HAVE VACANT BUILDINGS.
UH, THE DEVELOPER ALREADY HERE CHANGED THEIR PLAN FROM, UH, HIGHER DENSITY TO A LITTLE BIT LOWER BASED OFF OF FEEDBACK FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THE TOWN THAT THE BOARD HERE SHOULD JUST LOOK AT THIS AND SEE HOW IT FITS INTO THE TOWNSHIP AS A WHOLE.
UM, BECAUSE WE CAN'T HAVE VACANT BUILDINGS, WE CAN'T HAVE VACANT LAND, WE CAN'T HAVE ABANDONED LAND.
SO WE NEED TO FIND A, A GOOD SOLUTION.
AND, AND IT APPEARS THAT SO FAR THIS DEVELOPER'S ASKING QUESTIONS, THEY'RE HERE EARLY.
THEY DIDN'T JUST TRY TO, UH, SEEK APPROVAL FOR A HIGHER DENSITY PIECE.
SO I JUST HAD AN OPEN MIND AND SEE HOW, HOW THIS WILL PLAY OUT.
I AGREE WITH YOUR PERSPECTIVE.
MY, MY COMMENT IS WE GOTTA LOOK AT ALL OF THAT AREA.
IT'S NOT JUST RUN WITH THIS PIECE AND THEN THIS SETS A PRECEDENT THAT LAUNCHES SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS ACROSS ALL THE REST OF IT.
I DO I DO CHALLENGE A LITTLE BIT.
THE IDEA OF OFFICE OFFICE IS GONNA COME BACK.
IT'S GONNA COME BACK DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE
[02:00:02]
UPS JUST FORCED 12,000 PEOPLE FIVE DAYS A WEEK.YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR EMPLOYER IS DOING IT.
I JUST DID IT WITH AN OFFICE DOWN IN ATLANTA THREE DAYS A WEEK MANDATORY.
SO THERE'S SOMETHING COMING BACK WITH ALL THIS.
THE CHALLENGE WITH THESE IS, IT'S DOW, IT'S A RESEARCH CENTER.
YOU JUST DON'T GO TURN THAT INTO AN OFFICE COMPLEX IF THEY WOULD LEAVE.
WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THAT LAND? I AGREE WITH YOU, AL I THINK THE BIGGER CONVERSATION HAS TO BE HAD BEFORE WE RUN WITH JUST PIECEMEALING IT TOGETHER.
LET'S HAVE A FULL VIEW OF WHAT THE IDEA IS.
AND, AND IT'S NOT THE ONLY PLACE IN TOWNSHIP ON, UH, UM, CAMPUS, WELL, BESIDES CAMPUS, BUT, UH, UP ON, UM, UM, RIDGE ON MAIN STREET, UH, JUST OUTSIDE OF TRAP, WHEN WE GO UP PAST WHERE, UH, THE POOL, UH, THE POOL PLACES AND WINDS AND WHATNOT.
WE TALKED A WHILE TO TALK ABOUT A VILLAGE COMMERCIAL.
THERE'S A ZONING UP THERE THAT'S NOT WORKING.
AND, AND JUST SINCE WE HAVE A COUPLE MINUTES SINCE WE'RE, UH, WE'RE GOING FURTHER UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED UP IN MARION, KING OF PRUSSIA.
WHAT HAPPENED THERE WAS, THERE WAS A GOLF COURSE THAT SINCE 1965, THEY TRIED TO CHANGE THE ZONING.
AND I'LL TALK TO THE BOARD 'CAUSE I SHOULDN'T BE TALKING TO THEM.
IN 1965, THEY TRIED TO CHANGE THE ZONING, UH, TO ALLOW, UH, THE OWNER THERE TRIED TO BUILD ON THE GOLF COURSE IN THE TOWNSHIP, SAID, NO, IT'S A FARM.
WELL, THEY WAS, THEY WERE BUILDING NUCLEAR MISSILES.
THEY, THE COUNTRY'S BIGGEST MALL RIGHT THERE.
SO LITIGATION TOOK PLACE FOR 40 YEARS.
THE TAX REFUSED TO WORK WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER.
ALRIGHT? AROUND 2010, UM, THE BUILDER CAME IN, SAID, WILL, OR THE OWNER SAID, LET US KEEP NINE HOLES OF GOLF AND LET US DEVELOP THE REST.
THEN, UM, THEY WENT THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM, WENT TO THE SUPREME COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA.
SUPREME COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA FOUND THAT THE TOWNSHIP, UM, UM, THAT ALL THEIR DECISIONS TO DENY AND THERE WASN'T JUSTIFIED.
THE SUPREME COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA ISSUED A CONSENT DECREE, WHICH SAYS THAT THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY COULD DO LITERALLY ANYTHING THEY WANT ANYTHING.
THE DETACHMENT REFUSED TO WORK WITH THE PROPERTY NUMBER.
SO ALL THOSE BUILDINGS, THE, THE, THE, THE DEVELOPER SHOWS UP TO THE TOWNSHIP, BUT UPPER MEIN, THEY DROP A PLAN ON THEIR DESK AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE BUILDING.
IT'S NOT SAME TOWN COULD HAVE BOUGHT THE BILL GOLF COURSE, ALL GOLF COURSE.
SO ANYWAY, SO THAT'S, THAT'S A FACT.
AND IT'S A SHAME, IT'S A CRISIS.
AND THAT'S DEVELOPMENT GOING WRONG.
AND THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN HERE.
SO ANYWAY, JUST, I THINK WE SHOULD LOOK AT THIS.
MR. YAGER, YOU'RE A HUNDRED PERCENT RIGHT.
YOU NEED, WE NEED TO START LOOKING HOLISTICALLY AT THIS.
AND MAYBE THIS IS A, THIS COULD BE A MODEL OF THINGS THAT WE COULD LOOK AT.
HOW MUCH TIME DO WE HAVE TO, THERE'S NO VOTE TONIGHT.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, I'M NOT A FAN OF THE RESIDENCES.
I THINK WE'RE ALREADY OVERBUILT.
AND, UM, SECOND QUESTION, PARKING FOR THOSE RESIDENCES, WAS IT UNDERNEATH, IF YOU HAVE STACKED, IT WOULD'VE BEEN FIVE STORIES, RIGHT? YOU'D HAVE PARKING TWO, TWO? OR HOW DID THAT WORK? SO THERE'S, THERE'S PARKING AT GRADE LEVEL, AND THEN THERE'S, UH, TWO, THREE FLOORS OF, OF, UH, UNITS ABOVE.
SO ON THE BACKSIDE OF THESE IS A GARAGE.
EACH UNIT GETS ONE GARAGE SPACE AND ONE DRIVEWAY SPACE.
SO EACH DWELLING UNIT HAS TWO SPACES.
AND WE HAVE EXPANSION PARKING, UH, DOWN TO THE SOUTH SIDE WHERE THE, UH, THE ORIGINAL BUILDING IS.
NOW, UH, THERE'S, WE'VE CARVED OUT 20 ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES THERE FOR VISITORS, UH, TO THE, TO THE HOUSE.
I'M NOT PAYING THE RESIDENCES CHAIR.
THE LESS, THE LESS, I THINK I MISUNDERSTOOD THIS.
SO THE FIRST FLOOR IS GARAGES, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THREE HOME UNITS ABOVE THAT.
THE, THE, THE SECOND FLOOR IS BASICALLY SPLIT AND THEN A THIRD AND FOURTH.
UM, OTHER CONCERN AND KNOW KELLY, I SPOKE, GO AHEAD, KELLY.
YEAH, SO THE UPPER PROFIT TOUCH CENTER HAS A LOT OF STORES THAT AREN'T OCCUPIED RIGHT NOW.
AND SO YOU'RE PROPOSING TO PUT A BUNCH MORE IN MM-HMM.
AND I DON'T REALLY WANNA HAVE A BUNCH OF UNOCCUPIED PLACES IN OUR TOWNSHIP.
DO YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE INTERESTED THAT YOU KNOW, THAT YOU COULD FILL THESE? SURE.
UM, SO WE HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT AND ENGAGED MSC RETAIL, WHICH IS A, A LOCAL RETAIL BROKERAGE LEASING COMPANY.
WE HAVE BONAFIDE LETTERS OF INTENT FROM SPECIALTY GROCERS, RESTAURANTS, ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT USERS THAT WILL GO HERE.
THE PROBLEM DOWN THE STREET IS THEIR SPACE DOESN'T WORK WITH TODAY'S RETAIL.
[02:05:01]
SMALL, NARROW AND, AND NOT DEEP.AND THAT DOESN'T WORK WITH TODAY'S RETAILERS.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHY THAT SPACE IS, THERE'S A LOT OF VACANCY.
UM, WE WOULDN'T BE INVESTING HERE AND DOING THIS IF WE DIDN'T ALREADY HAVE BONIFIED INTEREST.
AND JUST TO PIGGYBACK ON THE RESIDENTIAL, ONE OF THE MAIN DRIVERS FOR HAVING RESIDENTIAL HERE IS BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO MOST LIKELY HAVE A GROCER UPFRONT.
ALTHOUGH THEY'RE A GREAT TENANT AND A GREAT AMENITY FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY'RE A VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE DEAL.
AND IT'S HARD TO MAKE WORK FINANCIALLY.
SO THE RESIDENTIAL KIND OF OFFSETS SOME OF THAT.
AND WE HEAR THE, THE, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE NOISE AND COMPLAINTS ABOUT TOO MUCH DENSITY AND WE'RE WILLING TO WORK ON THAT WITH, WITH THE BOARD AND KIND OF TALK THROUGH SOME OF THOSE ISSUES.
BUT THAT WAS KIND OF THE THOUGHT PROCESS AS WELL, THAT COUPLED WITH BRINGING DOWN THE DENSITY FROM ROUTE 29 AND BLACKROCK TO WHERE THE, THE TOWNSHIP BUILDINGS ARE ON THE FIELDS AND MAKING IT KIND OF A WALKABLE LIFESTYLE TYPE COMMUNITY.
JUST WANTED TO GIVE SOME BACKGROUND ON THE THOUGHT PROCESS.
YOU KNOW, THE DENSITY'S ONE THING, IT'S, IT, IT COMES DOWN TO THE TRAFFIC AND THE SCHOOLS GOING TO OUR SCHOOLS ARE, ARE PACKED.
AND IF, YOU KNOW, YEAH, WE DON'T MANAGE THE SCHOOL BOARD BUDGET, BUT WE CONTINUE TO PACK PEOPLE INTO THE TOWNSHIP.
THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO BUILD MORE SCHOOLS AND EVERYBODY'S TAXES ARE GONNA GO FLYING UP.
AND WE'RE AT THAT BUBBLE POINT.
THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE CONCERN THAT I HEAR CONSTANTLY THE RESIDENTS WE'RE RATED THAT BOILING POINT.
OF THE SCHOOLS ARE PACKED AND IF YOU KEEP PACKING THE SCHOOLS, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO, NEXT THING YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA BE BUILDING A SCHOOL OVER WHERE DALLAS IS.
OBVIOUSLY COMING INTO THIS SITUATION AND UNDERSTANDING SOME OF THE ISSUES WITH THE, THE PARK HOUSE PROJECT AND SOME OF THE OTHER BUILDING THAT HAS, THAT'S HAPPENED HERE OVER THE YEARS.
WE KIND OF LOOKED AT THIS FROM A TOTALLY DIFFERENT PRODUCT.
MOST PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA BE LIVING HERE ARE MOST LIKELY DOWNSIZING, LIKE EMPTY NESTERS.
SO INSTEAD OF GOING TO PHILLY, THEY COME HERE AND THEY HAVE A WALKABLE COMMUNITY.
UM, AND, AND ALSO IT COULD BE A STARTER ROOM FOR SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE KITS YET.
THAT'S REALLY THE, THE TARGETED BUYER HERE AT THE HIGH THREES, LOW FOUR PRICE POINT.
UM, AND, AND I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, YOUR CONCERN WITH THAT.
BUT WE, WE TOOK THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN WE REALLY DOVE IN ON WHAT PRODUCT WE WOULD WANT TO USE HERE TO DOUBLE BACK TO SOMETHING ELSE.
THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS STILL IN PROCESS.
WE TALKED ABOUT THIS PARCEL BACK IN OCTOBER.
WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE BUILDINGS ON CAMPUS DRIVE OTHER, I THINK IT'S FIVE OR SIX AREAS OF FOCUS THAT I SORT OF INTRODUCED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION WHERE THERE WERE AREAS OF WHERE DEVELOPMENT'S GOING TO OCCUR, WHERE REDEVELOPMENT IS GOING TO OCCUR.
UM, WHAT'S GOING TO BE CHANGING IN THE TOWNSHIP.
WE DIDN'T COME TO ANY DEFINITIVE CONCLUSIONS.
WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.
I'M HOPING THE PLANNING COMMISSION, BECAUSE AGAIN, IT'S NOT MY WRITING THE PLAN.
I MEAN, I DO THE PHYSICAL WRITING, BUT IT'S REALLY THE PLANNING COMMISSION SETS THE POLICY.
YOU, AND THEY SET THE POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS.
YOU SET THE POLICY FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND YOU'LL BE SEEING THAT IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.
I THINK JANUARY OR JULY IS OUR TARGET DATE TO GET THAT APPROVED.
AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LAND USE THIS LAND USE CAMPUS DRIVE, RIDGE PIKE, OTHER PLACES IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT ARE THERE.
WHAT I SEE IS AREAS WHERE DEVELOPMENT IS GOING TO OCCUR JUST FROM, YOU CAN SEE HOW THE PATTERNS WORK OUT IN THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, SO WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THAT TOMORROW NIGHT.
UM, AND THEN HOPEFULLY, YOU KNOW, WE'LL GET THE LAND USE SECTION WRITTEN.
WE ARE TRYING TO LOOK AT IT HOLISTICALLY.
MR. YEAGER, I MEAN, I, I REALIZE THAT YOU TALK ABOUT INDIVIDUAL PARCELS AND IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE LIKE LOOKING AT IT AN ISLAND.
I TRY TO MAKE THEM BROADEN IT OUT A LITTLE BIT AND LOOK AT, OKAY, WELL WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE OVERALL PICTURE? AND AGAIN, I'M, I'M GUIDING THEM, BUT THE PLANNING COMMISSION NEEDS TO COME UP WITH THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS FOR YOU AND THAT WE'RE HOPING TO GET THAT IN THE NEAR NEAR FUTURE.
I MEAN, IDEALLY YOU START WITH A STRATEGY, RIGHT? WHAT'S THE STRATEGY? YES.
DO WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO EXPAND SCHOOL DISTRICTS? DO WE WANT, HOW DO WE WANT TO BUILD, WHAT KIND OF THINGS DO WE WANT IN? HOW MUCH OPEN SPACE DO WE WANT? DOES THE TOWNSHIP WANNA BUY ANYTHING? I MEAN, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE STRATEGY? GIMME THE FIVE.
THAT IS SOMETHING WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT TOMORROW NIGHT, SORT OF WORK.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT IT MORE THE, THE THE WORKING DOCUMENT.
THE WORKING SORT OF OPERATION PROCESS THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH.
UM, JUST ONE OTHER THING, MR. YEAGER, JUST TO, YOU KNOW, CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION AROUND THAT.
THE, THE GOOD PART ABOUT THIS PROCESS, ABOUT COMING TO YOU FOR A REZONING IS YOU HAVE TO BLESS THE PLAN OF WHAT WE'RE PUTTING FORTH.
RIGHT? AND IT'S NOT, IT POTENTIALLY COULD SET A PRECEDENT, BUT ANYONE ELSE WHO'S HAS AN OFFICE BUILDING OR SOMETHING VACANT, THEY STILL HAVE TO COME IN AND THEY HAVE TO PRESENT A PLAN THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WELL RECEIVED BY THE BOARD, WELL RECEIVED BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT CAN'T JUST BE DONE OUTTA NOWHERE.
SO, YEAH, I I JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT, BRING THAT ONE BACK.
[02:10:01]
APPROACH RATHER THAN HAVING SHOVED SOMETHING SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS.SO WE THAT'S, I APPRECIATE THAT.
WE LIKE TO, THAT'S HOW MIKE, THE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY'S BEEN RUN FOR 10 PLUS YEARS.
UM, WE'LL CONTINUE THE DISCUSSIONS AND, YOU KNOW, WE BELIEVE IN THIS PROJECT.
WE THINK IT'S A GREAT AMENITY.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY HERE WILL PROBABLY GO SHOP AT, SHOP AT.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, WE, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME FOR LETTING US PRESENT IT TO YOU.
YEAH, IT IS ON THAT BUSY INTERSECTION RIGHT THERE.
I MEAN, IT DOES LEAN TOWARDS RETAIL 'CAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT THERE OFF OF 4 22.
I'D HAVE TO REALLY, I HAD ONE QUESTION.
UM, WE HAVE, WE, WE CURRENTLY QUEST, WE ENJOY A, A LOT OF PARKING FOR OUR COMMUNITY DAY HERE.
WOULD THERE BE ANY OPPORTUNITY FOR THE TOWNSHIP TO CONTINUE USING THAT FOR OUR COMMUNITY DAYS? UM, I DID KNOW IF WE COULD HAVE SOME TYPE OF PARKING EASEMENT OR ABSOLUTELY DISCUSS.
AND I ACTUALLY, UM, SIGNED A LICENSING AGREEMENT WITH SUSAN, I BELIEVE WHO WORKS AT THE, AT THE TOWNSHIP.
THAT'S, THAT'S A SEPARATE ISSUE.
NO, BUT I'M SAYING EVEN AFTER THIS IS BUILT, WE WILL ABSOLUTELY STILL ALLOW YOU TO USE THE, THE PARKING OVER, OVER THE PAST TWO MONTHS.
SUE HAS RAN INTO SOME SUE HOFFMAN, THE PLANNING, THE, I'M SORRY, THE PARTNER REC DIRECTOR RAN INTO SOME STONEWALL REQUESTS.
SHE COULDN'T GET THE PARKING THERE, SO SHE WASN'T SURE WHAT EVENTS SHE WAS GOING TO HAVE.
I REACHED OUT TO OUT, I HAD HER REACH OUT TO ALLISON AND EXPLAINED WHAT SHE NEEDED.
SHE REACHED OUT TO HIGH TOP, HIGH TOP, WORKED WITH QUEST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE PARKING WHILE THEY'RE IN THIS PROCESS.
AND OBVIOUSLY IF SOMETHING GOES UNDER CONSTRUCTION THAT'S GONNA LIMIT WHAT PARKING WE HAVE JUST BASED ON ITS CONSTRUCTION.
DURING THIS PROCESS, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT, I'VE MENTIONED THAT WE USE THE PARKING, WE'D LIKE TO CONTINUE TO USE THE PARKING.
I'M NOT SURE HOW IT WOULD WORK WITH A RETAIL LIKE THAT, BUT AGAIN, THEY'RE OPEN TO IT AND WE HAVE TO, IT'S A, IT IS A DISCUSSION ITEM.
THEY KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT TO US.
THE GOOD NEWS IS, AS HERB SAID, WE BELIEVE THE SITE'S OVER PARKED.
SO PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER'S AT FOUR PER, WE'RE SHOWING ALMOST FIVE AND A HALF PER.
SO EVEN ON A VERY, VERY BUSY DAY, IT SHOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM.
AND NUMBER TWO, IF YOU HAVE YOUR, UM, TOWNSHIP MEETINGS OR TOWNSHIP EVENTS IN THE MORNING, MOST OF THESE STORES WON'T BE OPEN AND THE PARKING WILL BE AVAILABLE.
IT'S MORE OF A LARGE SPECIAL WITH THIS DAY.
YOU LIKE YEAH, WE, WE'LL, WE'LL WE'LL DEFINITELY WORK WITH YOU TO COME UP WITH A STRATEGY AROUND THAT, THAT THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM.
SO WE'LL, WE'LL THINK ABOUT THIS AND GET BACK.
IS IT A QUESTION? OH, I, I THINK THE BALL'S IN THEIR COURT NOW, UM, THEY'LL PROBABLY GO BACK AND CONVERSATIONS AND MEETINGS ABOUT IT AND THEY, THEY MAY REQUEST TO COME BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO COME BACK TO YOU, BUT THAT'S GONNA BE UP TO THEM.
THEY'RE OPERATING UNDER WHAT WE CALL A PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AGREEMENT.
IT'S NOT A LAND DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, IT'S JUST BASICALLY THEY PUT MONEY IN A TOWNSHIP ESCROW ACCOUNT SO THAT MY TIME, JOE'S TIME, JEN'S TIME ANTHONY AND CASEY'S TIME IS PAID FOR.
WE ARE NOT PAYING THIS OUT OF POCKET.
YOU'RE NOT PAYING THIS OUT OF TOWNSHIP FINANCING.
THEY PUT UP AN ESCROW ACCOUNT THAT WE DRAW OFF OF WHENEVER WE BILL TIME FOR IT.
SO THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE OPERATING UNDER.
THERE'S NO TIME CLOCK, THERE'S NO RULES REALLY, OTHER THAN WHAT SAYS IN RUSSELL SERVICES AGREEMENT.
HAVE LET ME KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO DO NEXT.
IS THERE ANY GOOD EVENING, KRISTEN TRAPMAN 1320 BLACKROCK ROAD.
UM, I KNOW YOU SAID THAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO SAVE THE HOUSE THAT'S ON THE PROPERTY AND INCORPORATE THAT INTO THE PLAN.
WHAT KIND OF USE OR WHATEVER WERE YOU LOOKING TO DO WITH THAT? SURE.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE HOUSE THERE ON, RIGHT, ON BLACKROCK.
YEAH, MY PARENTS OWNED THAT HOUSE AND I LIVED THERE, SO THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING.
BUT MY CONCERN IS THE CENTER, IT'S A THREE SECTION HOUSE AND THE CENTER SECTION IS THE OLDEST SECTION OF THAT HOUSE, WHICH DATES BACK TO APPROXIMATELY 1747, WHICH IS PROBABLY THE OLDEST OR ONE OF THE OLDEST THINGS STILL STANDING IN THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT PRESERVED.
I KNOW IT'S WINDOWS GET KNOCKED OUT ALL THE TIME AND EVERYTHING.
UM, BUT UM, JUST THE TOWNSHIP'S MOTTO IS ROOTED IN HISTORY, GROWING AND PROMISE.
AND I'VE PROBABLY LIVED HERE MORE THAN EVERYBODY THAT'S HERE,
UM, SO THAT'S WHY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT SAVED, UM, BECAUSE OF THE HISTORIC NATURE OF IT.
SO WE'RE ABSOLUTELY KEEPING IT.
UM, OTHER THAN IT, IT'S IN VERY, VERY POOR REPAIR RIGHT NOW.
BUT WE'RE PREPARED TO DO ALL THE RENOVATIONS THAT WE NEED AND WE'RE THINKING ABOUT DOING SOME SORT OF COMMUNITY AMENITY THERE, WHETHER IT BE A COFFEE SHOP OR SOMETHING THAT'S SERVICEABLE FOR THE WALKING TRAIL
[02:15:01]
RIGHT THERE.UM, AND AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN TALK WITH THE TOWNSHIP, UH, FURTHER.
BUT WE PLAN ON KEEPING IT AND RENOVATING IT AND MAKING AN AMENITY BEHIND IT.
IT SAYS, IS THIS PARKING SO BEHIND IT IS PARKING.
THERE'S UH, 25 OR SO PARKING SPACES BEHIND IT.
EVERY DAY I GO TO WORK, I LISTEN ON THE HOT RADIO, THEY SAY, UH, 4 22.
IT'S A PARKING LOT FROM OAKS DELIVER.
EVERY DAY YOU'RE GONNA PUT 1200 THOUSAND.
YOU GONNA PUT 75 THOUSANDS HUNDRED 50.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THREE TO 4,000 MORE CARS ON THESE ROADS.
YOU GOT RID OF THE FIREHOUSE AND YOU ONLY GOT ONE.
MY HOUSE TO CATCH FIRE DURING RUSH HOUR.
WHAT? FIRE TRUCKS AT YOUR HOUSE PASSED.
THEY CAN'T GET THEIR ROAD ALL.
WHAT PERSON SAID WE'RE GOING WIDE THIS ROAD.
WHY, HOW YOU GONNA, YOU FILLING EVERYTHING IN? WHAT, WHERE ARE WE GOING TO GO? THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS, ALLISON, THEN WE'LL HEAR BACK FROM YOU AND, OKAY, SURE.
SO I, I MEAN, I THINK TONIGHT OBVIOUSLY WAS OUR, YOU KNOW, FIRST DISCUSSION WITH THE BOARD WHERE TO ANSWER.
I KNOW THERE'S SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT TRAFFIC.
UM, WE DO HAVE, WE HAVE ENGAGED, UM, TRAFFIC PLANNING DESIGN, UM, AND THEY ARE TAKING A LOOK AT ALL OF THAT.
SO INITIAL, UM, REVIEW WAS BASED ON THIS CONCEPT PLAN, BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT WOULD BE REFINED.
THERE WOULD BE A FULL TRAFFIC STUDY DONE.
I WILL NOTE THAT THE EXISTING INTERSECTION IS SIGNALED TODAY.
UM, AND THERE IS SOME INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE ROAD, BUT WE KNOW WE, WE ASSUMED AND WE KNEW THAT THAT WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT TOPIC THAT WOULD BE PART OF THIS.
AND OBVIOUSLY WE'LL BE PREPARED TO PRESENT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT TO THE BOARD.
UM, BUT IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE, UM, YOU KNOW, SPECIFIC THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO LET US KNOW TONIGHT, WE'D BE HAPPY TO HEAR IT.
THE WHOLE REASON WE'RE HERE IS TO GET THAT FEEDBACK EARLY AND BE ABLE TO FURTHER REFINE WHAT MIGHT BE DONE ON THE SITE.
I GUESS TO ME, IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE RESIDENCES, DO YOU FEEL LIKE IT JUST WOULDN'T BE VIABLE FOR THE STORES YOU'RE PUTTING IN? I WANT TO KNOW THE UNDERSTANDING.
I DON'T, I'M LIKE, I KEEP SAYING I'M NOT RESIDENCES, BUT I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU FEEL LIKE YOU NEED TO ADD ALL THAT IN.
YEAH, SO THE WHOLE CONCEPT IS KIND OF TO CREATE A LIFESTYLE WALKABLE TYPE COMMUNITY, NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER TWO, LIKE I SAID PREVIOUSLY, THE GROCER THAT WE'RE HOPING TO GET HERE, LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE BONAFIDE LETTERS OF INTENT FROM TWO OF THEM, BUT THEY'RE NOT THE MOST DECRETIVE DEAL FINANCIALLY.
SO IN ORDER TO MAKE UP FOR THAT AND PROVIDE THE AMENITY TO, TO THE COMMUNITY, WE SUPPLEMENTED IT WITH RESIDENTIAL.
THE SECOND PIECE OF IT IS WHEN WE LOOK AT THE OVERALL PLAN OF THE SITE, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE, WITH THE LAND IN THE BACK AND PUTTING COMMERCIAL BACK THERE THAT WOULD POTENTIALLY LOADING AND TRASH AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT WOULD BE ABUTTING THE TOWNSHIP BUILDING AS WELL AS THE PARKS.
WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S A VERY GOOD USE OF THAT SPACE EITHER.
SO WE KIND OF WENT FROM A HIGH IMPACT USE ON 29 TO A SCALED BACK, LOWER, LOWER RESIDENTIAL USE TO THEN THE TOWNSHIP BUILDING AND THE PARK IN THE BACK.
SOME OF, I JUST HOPE THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD AS A TOWNSHIP AND PURCHASE SOME OF THIS PROPERTY, LIKE THIS WHOLE SWAP THAT'S RESIDENTIAL.
I JUST, AS WE MOVE FORWARD IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, I'D LIKE TO THINK ABOUT THAT.
'CAUSE I'D RATHER HAVE IT OPEN SPACE AND BOUGHT THAN THAT.
IF IT'S TOWNSHIP PROPERTY, WE GET OUR TOWNSHIP PROPERTY, SO WE EXPAND IT DOWN, PURCHASE THAT.
THAT'S PROBABLY NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR, BUT THAT'S JUST THE THOUGHT.
EVEN A COMMUNITY POOL OR SOMETHING.
COUNCIL, CAN I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN? I'M SORRY, CAN I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THE TOWNSHIP'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN? UM, JEFF, WERE YOU HAD SPECIAL MEETING ABOUT THAT, THAT NO, OUR REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ARE NORMALLY OUR SECOND MEETING OF THE MONTH.
WE TALK ABOUT THE PLAN, THE, THE, UH, COMP PLAN.
WE HAVEN'T DONE IT, WE DIDN'T DO IT IN JANUARY.
WE DIDN'T HAVE A SECOND MEETING IN DECEMBER.
WE DID TALK ABOUT IT IN NOVEMBER AS TIM'S PROBABLY ABOUT TO SAY WE'RE GONNA ADOPT IT BY JULY.
UM, YOU KNOW, UH, SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER WE TALKED ABOUT IT.
I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOUR QUESTION IS, BUT I, I THINK THE QUESTION THAT I WOULD HAVE IS SPECIFIC TO A NEEDS ASSESSMENT IN ANY COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, YOU HAVE A NEEDS ASSESSMENT.
WE TALKED ABOUT THAT IN EPTEMBER OCTOBER, WAS THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE IN FRONT OF US WILL BE KIND OF INCORPORATED
[02:20:01]
INTO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.WHICH IS KIND OF A BACKWARDS WAY OF DOING COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING.
YOU DO A NEEDS ASSESSMENT AND THEN WHAT ASSESSMENT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? THE LONG TERM PLANS ARE FOR, SORRY, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU COME AND SIT DOWN WITH ME ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WHEN'S THE LAST ONE FOR THE TOWNSHIP? WHAT'S THE CURRENT TOWNSHIP? UH, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
TWO THOUSAND TEN THOUSAND TEN.
AND I'LL ADMIT THAT WE'RE A LITTLE LATE, NOT AS LATE AS SOME OF OUR NEIGHBORS, BUT WE'RE A LITTLE LATE ON THIS ONE.
UM, BETWEEN COVID AND SOME OTHER THINGS THAT DID DELAY THE PROCESS A LITTLE BIT, WE ARE, UM, AGAIN, HOPING TO ADOPT IT BY JULY.
I CAN WALK YOU THROUGH THE ACT 2 0 9 PLAN THAT SHOWS YOU EXACTLY HOW MUCH DEVELOPABLE LAND WE HAVE LEFT AND HOW MUCH IMPACT THOSE ARE GONNA BE.
UM, I CAN WALK YOU THROUGH THE HOUSING PLAN THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
NOT, NOT BECAUSE I'M, I'M VOTING TORI SOMETIMES, AND I'M NOT MEAN TO ARGUE WITH YOU, BUT SOMETIMES WHEN YOU BRING THESE THINGS UP, YOU'RE NOT SPEAKING FROM A PLACE OF KNOWLEDGE BECAUSE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THESE THINGS IN A PUBLIC FORUM AND YOU HAVEN'T BEEN THERE AND I'M HAPPY TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THEM.
BUT YOU, YOU TALK ABOUT 'EM LIKE WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT IT.
WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT MR. ALL I'M ASKING IS, IS, YOU KNOW WHAT TORY, LET'S JUST COMPREHENSIVE BACK TO THE, TO THE DEVELOPERS THAT ARE HERE TONIGHT AND I WANNA GIVE THEM A FAIR SHAKE.
LET'S CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION.
I DON'T WANNA GET OFF A TANGENT HERE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THEM? FOR, FOR, FOR ALLISON, ONE THING YOU WILL SEE HERE IS THE, UM, DO RUN AND 29 WE HAVE A GRANT, A GREEN LIGHT GO GRANT.
SO THAT TRAFFIC LIGHT WILL BE REPLACED.
THE SPAN WIRE WILL GO FROM SPAN WIRE TO METAL POLES.
UM, CASEY COULD EXPLAIN IT IN BETTER DETAIL TO YOU, BUT WHEN YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING, IT'S NOT PART OF THIS DEVELOPMENT.
IT'S A COMPLETELY SEPARATE GRANT WE'VE HAD FOR A COUPLE YEARS NOW.
AND I KNOW PEOPLE TEND TO CONFLATE THINGS WHEN THEY SEE HOW SOMETHING HAPPENING.
IT, IT, ONE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER.
THANK YOU FOR THE PUBLIC DIALOGUE ON THIS PROJECT.
NORMALLY WE JUST GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION AND I JUST LISTEN AND THEN I COME HERE.
IT'S HELPFUL FOR US TOO, SO THANK YOU.
ALRIGHT, NOW BACK DOWN TO OUR AGENDA.
CONSIDER SCHEDULING A PUBLIC HEARING REGARD CODE ADOPTION OF THE OFFICIAL CODE OF THE TOWNSHIP OF PUBLIC PROVIDENCE TO TEE THIS ONE.
UH, YOU KNOW, CODIFICATION IS THE, WHAT BACK BEFORE IT WAS ONLINE IS THE BIG BOOK THAT YOU WOULD GET WITH ALL THE ORDINANCES IN IT.
AND THEN YOU, YOU WANT TO PERIODICALLY UPDATE THAT EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOW ONLINE.
YOU WANT TO HAVE YOUR ONE SET WHERE YOU HAVE YOUR, YOUR CHAPTERS AND YOUR SECTION NUMBERS.
YOU WANT ALL YOUR ORDINANCES IN THAT, IN THAT COMPENDIUM AND NOT SCATTERED AND, AND IN DIFFERENT PLACES.
SO IT'S PARTLY THAT AND IS ALSO AS A PART OF RE CODIFYING THE ORDINANCES, THE COMPANY THAT ASSISTS THE TOWNSHIP.
IN DOING THAT, THEY ALSO MAKE A LOT OF EDITS AND SUGGESTED EDITS TO THE ORDINANCE TO KEEP IT CURRENT, UH, WITH LAW, STATE LAW AND FEDERAL LAW.
AND, UH, ALL OF US TOOK OUR TURN AT THE STAFF LEVEL GOING THROUGH CERTAIN SECTIONS WHERE THE EDITORS ASKED, DO YOU WANT THIS OR SHOULD IT BE READ THAT WAY OR THIS SURVEY OR THAT WAY.
SO IT ALSO GETS, YOU KNOW, CLEANED UP, UH, IN THE PROCESS, UM, AS WELL.
SO THIS TO, TO RE CODIFY, UM, IT'S LIKE ADOPTING AN ORDINANCE, ONLY ONE BIG ONE.
YOU REDO ALL YOUR ORDINANCES ALL AT ONE TIME AND IT'S JUST PART OF A, IT'S A BEST PRACTICE TO KEEP YOUR CODIFIED ORDINANCES, YOU KNOW, UP TO DATE.
'CAUSE YOU WANT ALL YOUR, IF YOU GO TOO LONG, YOU'VE GOT A BUNCH OF STANDALONE ORDINANCES THAT HAVEN'T BEEN WORKED IN, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ASSIGNED A, A SPOT IN THE CODIFIED.
AND WHEN THAT LIST GETS TOO LONG, YOU WOULD'VE PUT 'EM MESSAGE.
SO WAS THIS WHAT YOU REFERRED TO EARLIER TONIGHT ABOUT KEEPING THINGS UP TO DATE? I DON'T KNOW WHAT I SAID EARLIER TONIGHT, BUT I DON'T LIKE TWO YEARS AGO.
UH, WELL, NO, WELL NO, JEFF AND I, WE, WE GO THROUGH THE ORDINANCE ON OUR OWN AND WE SOMETIMES KEEP IT UP TO DATE BY CLEANING STUFF UP.
THIS IS MORE OF A, LIKE A BOOKKEEPING THING.
I KEEP, I KEEP A RUNNING LIST.
SOMEONE WILL SAY, OH, THIS IS A LITTLE HINKY.
I KEEP A RUNNING LIST OF THINGS THAT NEED TO CHANGE, WHETHER IT'S SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS, YOU KNOW, A, A REFERENCE OR WE HAVE AN EXTRA COMMA OR WHETHER IT'S SOMETHING SUBSTANTIVE.
AND THAT'S EVENTUALLY WHEN THAT LIST GETS TO BE LARGE ENOUGH OR THE PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA IS LIGHT ENOUGH, WE START TO BRING THAT FORWARD AND, AND THAT'S WHEN WE MOVE THOSE, MOVE THOSE CHANGES FORWARD.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? AND I'LL ASK FOR A MOTION.
[02:25:01]
I'LL MAKE A MOTION, ASK A QUESTION.WE NEED TO, THE NEXT MEETING, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO BE BETTER ABOUT NOT HAVING, THESE ARE ALL ASKED QUESTIONS AT THE TOP OF THE AGENDA.
THIS IS, THIS IS PERTAINING TO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WE HAVE ALL THE PUBLIC COMMENT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING AND TONIGHT WAS DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE HAD, WE HAD A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT SPECIAL UH, CHATS.
BUT REALLY WE SHOULD ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THINGS AT THE PUBLIC MEETING.
SO BILL, I'M GONNA HAVE TO, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD ON OUR AGENDA.
WELL, IT SAYS THAT NON AGENDA ITEMS ARE DURING PUBLIC COMMENT.
I THINK IT'S ALL NAMES ONLY THE PLANNING COMMISSIONS A NON AGENDA.
JUST THE SAME AS AN OFFICIAL MAP.
DOES THE TOWNSHIP HAVE AN OFFICIAL MAP? YES, IT DOES.
UM, WE'RE GONNA TALKING ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT TOMORROW NIGHT.
UM, IT, IT IS SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE UPDATED AS PART OF THE, PROBABLY RIGHT AFTER THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
ALRIGHT, ALL COMMENTS THEN TOP OF THE AGENDA FOR NEXT TIME AROUND.
WE WERE PASSING AN, UH, MOTION BILL
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING THE PROPOSED ADOPTION OF THE OFFICIAL CODE OF THE TOWNSHIP ABOVE UPPER PROVIDENCE, INCLUDING ORDINANCES AND ZONING MAP.
PROPOSED DATE, APRIL 22ND, 2024.
CONSIDER AWARDING A BID FOR THE DEMOLITION OF THE 22 HOMES THAT WERE ACQUIRED THROUGH VARIOUS FEMA FUNDED PROGRAMS. UH, THIS HAS TO DO WITH IDA, RIGHT? BRIAN, I'LL LET YOU TEE THAT UP.
THIS IS THE, UM, FEMA FUNDED, UM, BUYOUT PROJECT THAT, UH, CAME AFTER HURRICANE IDA.
UM, WE ADVERTISED FOR BIDS HELD A PRE A MANDATORY PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETING HERE IN THIS ROOM.
AND THEN THE CONTRACTORS WHO WERE BIDDING THE JOB WERE ALL GIVEN ACCESS.
UH, WE RECEIVED A TOTAL OF FOUR BIDS THAT RANGE FROM, UH, $543,000 AND CHANGE TO NEARLY 1,000,003.
UM, JEN'S OFFICE HAS VETTED THE LOWEST BIDDER AND HAS RECOMMENDED AWARD TO G AND R EXCAVATING AND DEMOLITION FOR $543,623 IS THE LOW LOWEST RESPONSIBLE BIDDER.
AND WE'RE STILL GETTING REIMBURSED FROM FEMA FOR ALL OF THIS, RIGHT? FOR EVERY DIME, YES.
WHEN WILL THIS HA WHEN WILL THIS ALL HAPPEN? THE 22 HOMES, WE ANTICIPATE THAT WE'LL HAVE A PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETING, A PRE DEMOLITION MEETING IN THIS CASE IN THE NEXT 30 DAYS, THEN A NOTICE OF PROCEED WILL BE ISSUED.
UH, WE WILL PROVIDE, UH, NOTICE TO ALL THE RESIDENTS OF, UH, UM, MONTCLAIR AND PORT PROVIDENCE WITHIN ANY GIVEN RADIUS OF ANY OF THE INDIVIDUAL PROJECTS.
AND I THINK WE'D LIKELY SEE ACTIVITY WITHIN ABOUT 45 DAYS.
AND HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE, UH, THE CONTRACT FROM NOTICE TO PROCEED? I THINK JEN, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IS 120 DAYS.
UM, WE WERE BIDDING A LARGE DEMOLITION PROJECT AT THE SAME TIME AS COLLEGEVILLE AND LOWER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIPS.
SO WE WANTED TO DO, SPREAD OUT THE DURATION OF THE CONTRACT TO SOME DEGREE OUT OF CONCERN THAT IF WE HELD A REAL TIGHT TIMEFRAME FOR THE CONTRACT AND THE SAME BIDDER GOT ALL THREE PROJECTS, THEY THE COST WILL BE DRIVEN UP.
WE THOUGHT COST WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT LOWER IF WE, UH, GAVE THEM ADDITIONAL TIME TO COMPLETE THE WORK.
IF THERE'S NOT ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, I'LL ASK FOR A MOTION.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO AWARD A BID FOR DEMOLITION OF 22 HOMES THAT WERE ACQUIRED THROUGH VARIOUS FEMA FUND GRANT PROGRAMS TO G AND R EXCAVATION AND DEMOLITION OF TYRONE PENNSYLVANIA IN THE AMOUNT OF $543,623 AS THE LOWEST RESPONSIBLE BIDDER.
ALL THOSE OPPOSED MOTION CARRIES.
WE'RE GOING CONSIDER AWARDING A BID FOR THE 2024 ROAD P PROJECT.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO AWARD A BID FOR THE 2024 ROAD PAVING PROJECT, A TO HIGHWAY MATERIALS INCORPORATED OF FLOWER TOWN PA IN THE AMOUNT OF 777 700 $70,000, $650 AS LOWEST RESPONSIBLE BIDDER.
[02:30:01]
ALL THOSE OPPOSED, ALL MOTION CARRIES.UH, CONSIDER ADOPTING A LETTER OF RETIREMENT FROM OFFICER BADGE NUMBER 27.
SO ASK FOR A MOTION ON THAT ONE.
I MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE LETTER OF RETIREMENT FROM OFFICER ENRIGHT.
BADGE NUMBER 27 WITH THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF FEBRUARY 21ST, 2024.
WE'RE ON TO MANAGER AND DEPARTMENT
[MANAGER AND DEPARTMENT HEAD REPORTS]
HEAD REPORTS.SO JEFF, YEAH, I'LL TAKE THE FIRST ONE.
UM, THE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL HAS BEEN LOOKING TO PUT TOGETHER AN HA MEETING WITH THE HOA, THE LOCAL, ALL OF THE HOAS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
WE FEEL LIKE THERE'S REALLY SORT OF A DISCONNECT BETWEEN WHAT THE TOWNSHIP CAN PROVIDE FOR YOU IN TERMS OF EDUCATION, IN TERMS OF RESPONSIBLE LAND USE AND BASE AND MANAGEMENT AND OTHER MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITIES THAT, THAT HOAS HAVE.
AND SORT OF A LIAISON BETWEEN THE TOWNSHIP AND THEM.
SO WE'VE BEEN REACHING OUT TO WHAT WE, THE PEOPLE THAT WE KNOW ARE ON HOAS, BUT IT'S A REALLY ELUSIVE TARGET.
'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY THERE'S AN HOA ELECTION EVERY YEAR.
PEOPLE MOVE ON, PEOPLE MOVE OUT, THEY DON'T UPDATE.
THERE'S REALLY, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT TO NOTIFY US WHO'S THE MEMBER OF AN HOA OR WHO'S THE PRESIDENT OF AN HOA OR WHATEVER THEIR TITLE MAY BE.
SO WE'VE HAD THIS RUNNING ON THE TOWNSHIP WEBSITE, AND AGAIN, I'M LOOKING FOR ANY SORT OF HELP I CAN GET.
WE'RE HOPING TO TALK ABOUT THE AGENDA IN MARCH AND THEN HAVE THE MEETING IN MAY, JUST SORT OF AS ANOTHER POINT OF CONTACT.
ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER WAY TO REACH OUT TO PEOPLE IN THE TOWNSHIP AND SEE WHAT THE EAC CAN HELP THEM DO.
SEE WHAT THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND, AND WE ARE REALLY, THE BIGGEST ISSUE WE'RE RUNNING INTO IS THEY'RE DONE BY A LOT OF MANAGEMENT COMPANIES.
THOSE MANAGEMENT COMPANIES AREN'T WILLING TO GIVE US NAMES.
YOU KNOW, I HAVEN'T CALLED AND DEMANDED A NAME YET, PATTY, WHO'S VERY GOOD AT WHAT SHE DOES, BUT SHE'S PRETTY SOFT SPOKEN ABOUT IT.
I'M, I TOLD HER TO GIMME THE LIST OF PEOPLE WHO WON'T GIMME THE NAMES AND I'LL MAKE SURE THEY GIVE ME NAMES.
BUT HEY, UM, THAT'S, SO IF YOU KNOW OF ANYBODY IN HOA, IF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU, WHATEVER NEIGHBORHOOD YOU LIVE IN, IF YOU KNOW WHO YOUR H OA PRESIDENT IS, JUST SHOOT ME AN EMAIL AND WE WILL REACH OUT TO THEM.
UM, ANYTHING YOU CAN DO TO, TO TALK TO YOUR NEIGHBORS OR OTHER PEOPLE YOU KNOW, IN OTHER HOAS YEAH, I LIKE, I, I'M PRETTY SURE BILL DOESN'T LIVE IN ONE, BUT IF HE HAPPENS TO KNOW THROUGH, THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE IN THE TOWNSHIP, JUST KNOWS WHERE, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO'S IN AN HOA WHO KNOWS WHO THE PRESIDENT IS, AT LEAST IF WE CAN SOLIDIFY SOME CONTACTS, WE CAN GET OUT FROM THERE.
IT REALLY, AND EVEN THE FIRE CHIEF MENTIONED THAT, THAT HE NEEDS TO HAVE THAT LIST TOO.
IT'S, IT IS A, IT IS A GOOD POINT OF CONTACT FOR HIM IN TERMS OF FIRE LANES AND OTHER, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THE HOAS DO.
[CONSULTANT REPORTS]
ENGINEERING AND CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT UPDATES.NOW I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER OTHER THAN THE ROAD.
UH, UH, CONSIDER APPROVING THE MONTHLY DEVELOPER IMPROVEMENT GUARANTEE REDUCTION LIST.
WHO IS GONNA TAKE THIS ONE? I WILL TAKE THIS ONE.
IT LOOKS WORSE THAN IT IS THIS FOR KELLY AND FOR MARIA.
EVERY MONTH YOU WILL SEE SOMETHING TO THIS, WHEN A DEVELOPMENT COMES IN AND, AND, AND A DEVELOPMENT IS, IS BEING BUILT, WE HOLD A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THE PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS ARE BUILT.
SO THE DEVELOPER SUDDENLY JUST UPS AND DISAPPEARS.
ONE DAY WE HAVE MONEY TO STILL BUILD THE SIDEWALKS IN THE ROAD, THE CURB CUTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AS A DEVELOPMENT BUILDS THESE THINGS.
THEY CAN ASK FOR A LEASE OF THE LETTER OF CREDIT OR THE BOND OR CASH THEY CAN GIVE US CASH TO.
WE DON'T REALLY RECOMMEND THAT, BUT THEY, UM, THEY ASK FOR A RELEASE.
SO WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS CERTAIN DEVELOPMENTS AND THEY'RE ASKING FOR RELEASE.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT OAK SHOPPING CENTER, THIS IS THEIR LAST RELEASE.
THEY'RE NOT DEDICATING ANYTHING TO US.
THEY HAD AN ISSUE WITH THEIR, THEIR, UM, NOTICE OF TERMINATION FROM MONTGOMERY, MONTGOMERY COUNTY CONSERVATION DISTRICT.
SO NOW THAT THEY'VE FINALLY GOTTEN THAT, THEY'RE CLOSING IT OUT, WE'RE RELEASING ALL OF THAT WHITE SPRINGS FARM.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT IS VARIOUS PHASES, FIVE PHASES OF THAT, UM, THAT DEVELOPMENT.
THE, THE ENGINEERING FIRM GILMORE GOES THROUGH AND INSPECTS ALL OF THE IMPROVEMENTS.
WRITES ME A LETTER SAYS, YOU CAN RELEASE A FOR F $126,264 AND 50 CENTS FOR THESE IMPROVEMENTS, AND THEN WE GET YOUR APPROVAL AND I SEND A LETTER TOMORROW OR THE NEXT DAY TO THE BANK SAYING YOU CAN LOWER THE LETTER OF CREDIT DOWN BY THIS MUCH MONEY.
SO IT'S REALLY, SO IT IS A LITTLE BIT MORE ADMINISTRATIVE.
THIS LIST LOOKS REALLY LONG BECAUSE OF WHITE SPRINGS FARM.
I GUESS THERE'S NO WAY OF GOING, GETTING AROUND DOING THESE EVERY MONTH? NO.
[02:35:01]
OKAY.I MEAN, I I, WE USED TO DO IT JUST ADMINISTRATIVELY, BUT I HAD JUST BE THE HEAVY ON THAT ONE.
UM, BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME IT'S NOT AN ISSUE.
BUT IF YOU DON'T, ONCE YOU HAVE THE RECOMMENDATION FROM YOUR ENGINEER ON THE BRING DOWN, IF YOU DON'T VOTE ON IT, THEN IT'S DEEMED THAT YOU AS A YES.
AND SO IF THERE'S ONE THAT'S CONTENTIOUS, YOU DON'T WANT IT TO SLIP THROUGH EVEN THOUGH 95% OF THEM ARE ROUTINE.
I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MONTHLY DEVELOPER DEVELOPER IMPROVEMENT GUARANTEE REDUCTION LIST AS FOLLOWS.
ITEM A, BECHTEL FARMS 180 8 BECHTEL ROAD RELEASE NUMBER SEVEN $30,000 $30,596 AND 87 CENTS.
ITEM B, OAK SHOPPING CENTER, RELEASE NUMBER 19 $419,185 AND 92 CENTS.
WHITE SPRINGS FARM, PHASE ONE NORTH RELEASE NUMBER FIVE $68,445.
WHITE SPRINGS FARM, PHASE ONE SOUTH RELEASE NUMBER SEVEN 20,000, $20,705.
WHITE SPRINGS FARM, PHASE TWO NORTH RELEASE NUMBER FOUR $52,920.
UH, ITEM F, WHITE SPRINGS FARM PHASE TWO SOUTH RELEASE NUMBER FIVE $126,264 AND 50 CENTS.
ITEM G, WHITE SPRINGS FARM PHASE THREE SOUTH RELEASE NUMBER THREE, $149 A HUNDRED FORTY NINE, NINE HUNDRED $80 AND 20 CENTS.
A A ALL THOSE OPPOSED MOTION CARRIES.
[SUPERVISORS COMMENTS]
I JUST WANNA, JUST WANNA MAKE A QUICK COMMENT.WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT STEVE SLOPES AND THERE WAS TALK ABOUT STORM WATER AND FLOODING.
I, I, I, I JUST, I WANT EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND IN THE TOWNSHIP, IF YOU LIVE IN A HOUSE WITH A ROOF AND A DRIVEWAY AND A SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE AND A ROAD IN FRONT OF THAT HOUSE AND A ROAD YOU DRIVE TO SHOP, YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
AND, YOU KNOW, SO, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE, WE'RE GETTING READY TO TEAR DOWN A BUNCH OF HOMES IN THE FORT PROVIDENCE AREA THAT WERE FLOODED OUT IN IDA IN THE LAST 50 YEARS.
WE'VE HAD A THOUSAND YEAR STORM, OR 500 YEAR STORM AND 300 YEAR STORMS IN 50 YEARS, AND I'M 62 YEARS OLD.
SO I JUST WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHILE WE MIGHT SLOW DEVELOPMENT DOWN PRIVATE PROPERTY IN OUR SYSTEM, RAIN SPRING AND THAT'S ALL WE'RE DOING IS SLOWING IT DOWN.
AND, UH, SO JUST BE AWARE EVERYTHING FLOWS TO THE SCHUYLKILL RIVER AND, UH, AS THE CLIMATE CONTINUES TO WARM, I KNOW SOME PEOPLE CLAIM NOT TO BELIEVE IN THAT EITHER, BUT THAT, THAT IS A FACT.
AND WE CAN SEE THAT THE RAIN IS INCREASING.
YOU KNOW, IN DECEMBER AND JANUARY WE HAD EXTREMELY HIGH WATER ON THE SCHUYLKILL RIVER.
IN FACT, THE, THE ONE WEEKEND, OR THE ONE, UH, FRIDAY EVENING, WE HAD, UH, FIREFIGHTERS ON CALL IN, IN ALL THE FIREHOUSES AROUND HERE, VOLUNTEER AND PAID FIREFIGHTERS BECAUSE WE THOUGHT THAT NIGHT WE'D HAVE TO TAKE THE BOATS OUT.
SO JUST BE AWARE, YOU KNOW, WE TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS, BUT IT IS GONNA CONTINUE AND, AND WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF, OF WHAT DEVELOPMENT DOES, WHAT, UH, OUS SPACE DOES.
SO ANYWAY, UM, UPCOMING EVENTS.
[UPCOMING EVENTS]
A BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING SCHEDULED FOR MARCH 18TH AT 7:00 PM APRIL 22ND AT 7:00 PM UM, THAT, LET ME JUST TAKE A NOTE OF THIS ONE.APRIL 22ND AT 7:00 PM IT WAS PREVIOUSLY ADVERTISED FOR APRIL 15TH.
WE HAVE A PSATS MEETING ON THE 15TH, SO WE HAD TO MOVE IT.
SO THAT SECOND ONE ON MARCH, IT'S THE 22ND, IT'S THE WEEKEND PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING SCHEDULED FEBRUARY 21ST AT 7:00 PM UH, AGENDA ITEMS HANER ROAD, MINOR SUBDIVISION, UH, MARCH 6TH AT 7:00 PM THAT'S CANCELED.
ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING IS MARCH 20 AT 6:00 PM PARKS AND REC COMMITTEE.
UH, MEETING SCHEDULES MARCH 13TH AT 6:00 PM MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY MEETING IS APRIL 4TH AT 7:00 PM AND THE ZONING HEARING BOARD SCHEDULE, THERE IS NO PENDING APPLICATIONS.
ALRIGHT, SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION FOR ADJOURN.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
I WORK 15 MORE MINUTES, THEN I'D BE FULL 15 HOURS OF WORK THAN.