[00:00:05]
[CALL TO ORDER / AGNEDA APPROVAL ]
OF, UH, OR THE AGENDA APPROVAL IS ALL WE NEED TO DO, RIGHT? SO WE GOT AN AGENDA IN FRONT OF US.WE HAVE NO, I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE ANY, UH, UH, UH, FOLKS IN FRONT OF US TONIGHT THAT ARE, UH, HAVE GOT PROGRAMS GOING.
UM, SO WE HAVE, I THINK WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE, UH, UH, DISCUSSION ON THE STEEP SLOPE, UH, CONSERVATION THAT THE, UM, UH, SUPERVISORS ASK US TO LOOK INTO.
UH, I GUESS JOE AND YOU ARE GOING TO EXPLAIN EXACTLY WHAT THAT IS AND, UM, AND, UH, SO TO MOVING FORWARD, UH, WE'LL JUST, UH, TAKE, UH, FIRST OF ALL, APPROVE THE AGENDA.
YOU'LL SEE REALLY, THAT'S THE ONLY THING ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT.
I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.
SO WE HAVE, UH, ALL OF FAVOR OF THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT.
AND THEN, UH, THE NEXT THING ON THERE, UH, STAYING WITH THE AGENDA THAT'S IN FRONT OF US IS THE PUBLIC COMMENT ON NON AGENDA ITEMS. SO THESE WOULD BE THINGS THAT ARE NOT ON THE AGENDA, WHICH BASICALLY STEEP SLOPES.
UH, THESE WOULD BE, UH, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THAT TONIGHT? ANY PEOPLE WANT TO SPEAK? HEARING NONE, UH, WE'LL ASSUME THERE'S NO NON AGENDA COMMENTS.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
TO GENERAL DISCUSSION.SO THE FIRST THING ON THE, UH, THE MEETING TONIGHT WILL BE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 3RD.
WAS THAT OUR LAST MEETING? JANUARY 3RD? UH, WELL, WE, JANUARY 3RD WAS REORGANIZATION.
JANUARY 17TH WAS, UH, THE INTRODUCTION TO THE HIGH DEVELOPMENT QUEST MENT.
I THOUGHT WE HAD ONE BACK THERE SO WE DON'T HAVE THE MINUTE.
SO WE GOTTA APPROVE THOSE TWO MINUTES, THE REORGANIZATION, WHICH WAS A JANUARY 3RD, AND THEN THE HIGH THING, UH, DOWN AT THE, UM, UH, BUILDING RIGHT DOWN THE STREET FOR, UH, JANUARY 17TH.
SO, UH, IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO LOOK THROUGH THOSE MINUTES, HOPE EVERYBODY'S HAD A CHANCE TO DO THAT.
UH, I THINK JEFF SENT 'EM OUT EARLIER THIS WEEK.
UH, IF EVERYBODY DOESN'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE THIRD 17TH OF JANUARY.
NICOLE'S MADE A, UH, MOTION TO ACCEPT THE THIRD AND THE 17TH.
SO THAT MOVES US TO THE DISCUSSION ON THE STEEP SLOPE CONSERVATION DISTRICT.
UM, I KNOW THAT, UH, THERE'S BEEN SOME TALK OVER THE LAST, UH, FEW MONTHS ABOUT LOOKING AT THAT, THAT THE, UH, UH, UPPER PROVIDENCE, UH, STEEP SLOPE, UH, ORDINANCE, AND TO SEE WHETHER THERE'S SOMETHING WE WANTED TO CHANGE OR LOOK AT DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
SO, UH, JOE, DO JEFF WANT TO TAKE THE LEAD ON THAT? UH, SURE.
UM, AND JEFF CAN FILL IN ANYTHING THAT I EVER OVERLOOKED.
UH, THE TOWNSHIP HAPPENED TO RECEIVE THREE APPLICATIONS AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME.
UH, THAT ALL INVOLVED APPLICATIONS FOR RELIEF FROM STEEP, THE STEEP SLOPE ORDINANCE.
UM, THE STEEP SLOPE ORDINANCE IS A CONSERVATION MEASURE, AN ENVIRONMENTAL MEASURE, UM, THAT, THAT, UH, LIMITS DEVELOPMENT ON STEEP SLOPES.
THE ORDINANCES THAT I'M FAMILIAR WITH THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY DIVIDE INTO TWO TYPES.
UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PERCENTAGE NUMBER IS OF EACH, BUT BOTH OF 'EM ARE, ARE OUT THERE.
UH, THE ORDINANCE IN THE TOWNSHIP IS BASED ON A SPECIAL EXCEPTION STANDARD.
SO IF YOU WANT A, TO DEVELOP IN THE STEEP SLOPE UNDER THE EXISTING ORDINANCE, UM, THERE ARE A SET OF CRITERIA IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTION IN FRONT OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
UM, THE SUPERVISORS HAD A CONCERN THAT IT WAS A LITTLE TOO EASY TO GET WORK DONE IN A STEEP SLOPE, BECAUSE UNDER A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, IF YOU MEET THE STATED CRITERIA IN THE ORDINANCE, YOU'RE ENTITLED TO THE RELIEF.
UM, I PARTICIPATED IN ONE OF THE HEARINGS AND, UM, ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS FROM THE FIRM OF COUNCIL WITH HANDLED ANOTHER ONE OF THE HEARINGS.
AND THEN ONE OF 'EM, WE, WE DID NOT REPRESENT, UH, THE TOWNSHIP AT, BUT WE WERE, WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING, UM, THEY, THEY DID GET THE RELIEF IN THOSE CASES BECAUSE THEY MET THE CRITERIA.
WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING A LOT OF CONDITIONS ATTACHED TO THE APPROVAL, UM, WHICH REQUIRED THE OWNER TO POST MONEY FOR FUTURE MAINTENANCE AND REPLACEMENT OF THE, UM, STORM SEWER COLLECTION AREA.
AND SO WE THINK WE HAD THE TOWNSHIP COVERED, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE WERE WORKING ON, UM, CREATING A NEW ORDINANCE, WHICH USES THE OTHER MODEL THAT IS OUT THERE, WHICH IS TO JUST SAY THAT THEY NEED A VARIANCE.
IN OTHER WORDS, UM, THE, THE, OR ALL THE ORDINANCES USED 15 TO 25% AS DIVIDING LINES.
SO BELOW 15% GRADE, YOU, YOU, YOU DON'T NEED
[00:05:01]
ANY SPECIAL PERMISSION.AND THEN 15 TO 25% IS A CATEGORY, AND THEN ABOVE 25% IS THE VERY STEEP, UM, CATEGORY.
AND I'VE HANDLED HEARINGS ALL AROUND THE COUNTY, AND I WOULD SAY THAT THOSE ARE COMMONLY ACCEPTED DIVIDING LINES.
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE NEW ORDINANCE AND THE OLD ORDINANCE IS JEFF GONNA PUT UP A, UM, A, A A A SLIDE THAT KIND OF LAYS THE DIFFERENCE SIDE BY SIDE.
THE, THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS, IS THAT IT'S HARDER NOW, UM, TO DEVELOP IN ANY SLOPE GREATER THAN 25%.
UNDER THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, THEY WERE LUMPED TOGETHER 15 TO 25 AND 25 AND UP.
YOU, YOU WERE ENTITLED TO THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
THERE'S STILL A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR 15 TO 25, BUT 25 AND ABOVE IS, IS PROHIBITED.
SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO GET A VARIANCE TO DEVELOPING SLOPE GREATER THAN 25, UH, PERCENT.
AND A VARIANCE IS HARDER TO GET THAN A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, BECAUSE WITH A VARIANCE, YOU HAVE TO PROVE A SPEC, A HARDSHIP, AND IT JUST CREATES A STRONGER, HIGHER BURDEN OF PROOF FOR THE APPLICANT AND GIVES THE TOWNSHIP, UM, A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTROL OVER, UH, THAT PROCESS.
AND WE WILL SEE THIS, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TOWNSHIP, JEFF CAN GIVE YOU THE ACTUAL PERCENTAGE.
THE TOWNSHIP IS BUILT OUT AT 95 5%.
AND SO WE'RE GONNA GET THESE SMALLER INFILL PROJECTS WITH THE BIG, WITH THE BIG PARCELS HAVING BEEN, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPED.
UM, AND SO PEOPLE ARE GONNA WANT TO DEVELOP ON PARCELS THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE OVERLOOKED BEFORE, AND THEY'LL HAVE, YOU KNOW, SOME STEEP SLOPE ON THEM.
SO WHEN THE THREE CAME IN ALL AT THE SAME TIME, WE JUST THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD TIME TO AMEND THE ORDINANCE TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT TOUGHER FOR DEVELOPMENT.
UM, JEFF MADE ME AWARE OF COMMENTS ONLINE, AND IT IS KIND OF A SAD STATEMENT OF WHERE WE ARE IN THE WORLD, BUT HE WAS ACCUSED OF TRYING TO SLIP THIS ORDINANCE PAST EVERYBODY.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO THINK IT SOMEHOW RELATES TO PARKHOUSE DOESN'T HAVE A SINGLE THING TO DO WITH PARKHOUSE.
IT NEVER DID HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH PARKHOUSE.
IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE WERE WORKING ON SEPARATELY AND FOR A LONG TIME.
UH, JEFF, WHAT, WHAT, UH, UH, UH, JOE MENTIONED THERE WERE SOME THREE BACK TO BACK TO BACK.
WHAT WERE THOSE THREE? ACTUALLY IT WAS FOUR.
IT WAS FOLEY TOLL FOLEY ON RITTENHOUSE ROAD, AMELIA STREET, TOWNHOUSES AND LOVER'S LANE, OR THEY CHANGED THE NAME OF 7 81 SOUTH CAL ROAD.
I REMEMBER A COUPLE OF THOSE, UH, SPECIFICALLY.
AND WE STILL, I MEAN, WE'RE STILL GONNA HAVE LAND DEVELOPMENT ON, WE'RE TENTATIVE ON AMELIA STREET AND LOVER'S LANE.
THEY DON'T HAVE TENTATIVE YET, SO THEY'RE STILL A TENTATIVE.
THERE'S, UM, HOPWOOD ROAD IS AT FINAL AND FOLEY IS FULLY APPROVED AT THIS POINT.
SO IT DOESN'T AFFECT THOSE THREE, IS THAT CORRECT? NO, I MEAN, JOE CAN EXPLAIN PENDING ORDINANCE, DR.
MC BETTER THAN I CAN, BUT IT, IT DOESN'T APPLY TO ANYTHING THAT'S CURRENTLY IN THE TOWN CURRENTLY ARE APPLIED FOR.
THOSE ARE ALL GRANDFATHERED IN BECAUSE, UM, SO THE 15 TO 25 THAT, THAT WOULD BE IN THE DESIGN, JOE THAT COME TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FIRST, THAT WOULD BE, THAT THAT SPECIAL EXCEPTION WOULD BE GIVEN BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
SO WHATEVER ZONING RELIEF THEY NEED, UM, IF THERE'S A, IF THERE'S LAND DEVELOPMENT ATTACHED TO IT, THEN IT WOULD BE LIKE EVERY OTHER ONE YOU SEE WHERE THEY CAN DECIDE IF THEY WANT TO GO TO THE ZHB FIRST.
BUT YEAH, IT WOULD COME TO YOU FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT.
AND IF IT'S STEEP SLOPE, ANYTHING OVER 15%, THEN THEY WILL HAVE GONE TO THE ZHP PROBABLY BEFORE THEY CAME TO YOU.
SO THEY, THEY WOULDN'T COME TO US IF, SAY IT'S 20% AND WE COULD APPROVE IT BASED ON THIS NEW ORDINANCE IF THEY WANTED TO COME TO US FIRST.
BUT THEY COULD ALSO GO TO THE ZONING BOARD FIRST.
FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT, THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO COME TO YOU AND FOR THE ZONING RELIEF, IT WOULD BE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THEM.
AND THEN AT OVER 25 THERE'S NO, EXCEPT THERE'S NO, WELL, THEY STILL, THEN THEY GO TO THE ZHP, BUT INSTEAD OF ASKING FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, THEY HAVE TO ASK FOR A VARIANCE, THEN IT'S A WHOLE VARIANCE.
SO THIS HAS BEEN REVISED TO SAY THAT IT'S PROHIBITED OVER 25.
WELL, WHEN YOU SAY PROHIBITED IN ZONING ORDINANCE, THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S, YOU CAN ASK FOR A VARIANCE FROM ANYTHING.
INCLUDING A SENTENCE THAT SAYS IT'S PROHIBITED.
SO THEY COULD STILL ASK FOR A A A YEAH.
TO OVERRUN THE PROHIBITIVENESS.
UH, JEN, DO YOU WANT TO ADD ANY OF THIS WITH YOUR EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE IN THIS AREA? I JUST THINK THE KEY POINT IS THE BOTTOM RIGHT STATEMENT OVER THERE.
IT'S TAKING MY OPINION OUT OF THE PROCESS AND MAKING THE APPLICANT PRESENT THEIR CASE, WHY THEY HAVE TO PRESENT THE LAYOUT THAT THEY HAVE, WHY THEY'RE NOT AVOIDING THE STEEP SLOPES.
[00:10:01]
CAN, THEY CAN MODIFY.SO I'M GONNA TAKE THE EXAMPLE OF LOVER'S LANE AS, AS A PREDOMINANT EXAMPLE.
SO I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO THINK THAT LOVER'S LANE GOT RELIEF FOR DISTURBING THE STEEP SLOPES AND THEREFORE GOT FIVE EXTRA LOTS IN THEIR PROPERTY.
THEY DIDN'T, WE DIDN'T ALLOW 'EM TO INCREASE THEIR DENSITY, INCREASE THEIR DEVELOPMENT.
ALL THEY DID WAS, UM, CLUSTERS NOT A RIGHT WORD IN THIS ONE TO FOLEY WAS MORE OF A CLUSTER WHERE, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY HAVE OUTSKIRT AREA THAT'S COMPLETELY UNDISTURBED.
UM, BUT LOVER'S LANE, THEY JUST TWEAKED SOME THINGS AROUND AVOIDED STEEP SLOPES WHERE THEY COULD, UM, FOR THE BULK OF IT, BUT BASICALLY FOR SAFETY REASONS, THEY DIDN'T WANT ANY ACCESS OFF OF 29.
YOU KNOW, YOU DIDN'T WANT FIVE EXTRA DRIVEWAYS ON 29.
SO THAT'S WHERE THAT RECONFIGURATION CAME IN INTO PLAY, BUT WE DIDN'T ALLOW 'EM TO BUILD FIVE EXTRA LOTS ON THERE.
IT WAS JUST RECONFIGURED, RECONFIGURED FOR SAFETY PURPOSES.
SO AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, IT'S MORE FOR THE APPLICANT NOW.
IT IS THE ON THEM TO DISCUSS AND PROVE WHY THEY'RE BUILDING THE WEBINAR.
PART OF WHAT WE'VE EDITED IS THERE WAS AN AWKWARD, SORT OF AN AWKWARD THING WHERE IT PUT THE TOWNSHIP ENGINEER AS ALMOST HAVING TO MAKE THE CASE FOR THE APPLICANT IN SPECIAL, EXCEPTIONAL OR VARIANCE.
AND, AND THAT THERE'S NO REASON THAT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THERE.
I MEAN THAT, SO WE'VE REMOVED THAT, AND BY DOING, BY DOING THAT, WE'VE TIGHTENED UP THE ORDINANCE AND WE PUT A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A BURDEN ON PUT DEFINITELY MORE OF A BURDEN ON THE APPLICANT TO PROVE THAT THERE'S NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE TO DO THIS.
AND AGAIN, THAT'S GONNA COME DOWN TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, AND THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO MAKE THE CASE TO THEM, AND THEY'RE GONNA BE THE ONES MAKING THE DECISION.
SO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD OR US COULD STILL USE JEN'S OPINION, THOUGH IN THOSE CASES? OH, CERTAINLY.
IT'S SAY JEN, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE OR SPECIAL EXCEPTION OR WHATEVER.
AND, AND AS WITH, UM, AS WITH DIA STREET THAT JOE WAS SENT TO BY, BY JOHN PEARSON, THE, THE BOARD AND THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER ARE ALWAYS A PARTY MORE, THE BOARD ARE ALWAYS A PARTY TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD APPLICATIONS.
SO AT ANY POINT IN TIME, IF THE BOARD WANTS JOE TO GO AND TO MAKE THE CASE WHY IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, THAT'S WITHIN THEIR RIGHT TO DO IT.
ANYBODY, YOU GOT ANY QUESTIONS ON THE BOARD HERE? ANY GOOD QUESTIONS FOR ANYBODY? WHEN WAS, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THAT, UH, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WAS, UM, APPROVED FOR SOMETHING MORE THAN 25%? I, YOU KNOW, I MEANT TO LOOK UP EXACTLY WHAT PERCENTAGES LOVER'S LANE HAD ON THERE, BUT I THINK LOVER'S LANE HAD MORE THAN 25% SLOPES ON THEIR PROPERTY.
AND JUST TO CONFIRM, NONE OF THE ACTIVE APPLICATIONS WOULD ARE BEYOND 25% IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY'RE APPLYING FOR.
WELL, LOVER'S LANE AND AMELIA STREET, I'M FAIRLY SURE THEY BOTH DO HAVE GREATER THAN 25% SLOPES ON THEIR SITE.
UM, AGAIN, THAT WOULDN'T AFFECT IT.
ANY OTHERS? UM, HANER ROAD, YOU KNOW, IROQUOIS DRIVE, YERKEY STATION, UH, COLLEGEVILLE ROAD, H YOU KNOW, MCCAULEY PLAN? NO, IT DOESN'T AFFECT ANY OF THOSE.
WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A LARGE PARCEL WHERE THEY HAVE TO HAVE OPEN SPACE AS A PART OF THE GIVE OR, YOU KNOW, SEGREGATED, THEY ALWAYS JUST FIND THE STEEP SLOPE AND THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU GET DEDICATED TO YOU WHEN YOU'RE ON A SMALLER PARCEL, LIKE THESE ONES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, WHERE IT'S MOSTLY STEEP SLOPE, THEY CAN'T WORK AROUND IT DEDICATED TO YOU.
SO IT BECOMES MORE POINTED THAT, AND I, I REALIZE THIS MAP IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO READ FOR EVERYBODY, BUT THE MAP ON, ON THE SCREEN SHOWS THOSE ARE TOPOGRAPHY LINES AND, AND THE LIGHTER COLOR IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TOWNSHIP IS, IS THE HIGHEST ELEVATIONS THE DARKER PURPLE OR THE LOWEST ELEVATIONS.
BUT WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE STEEP SLOPE AREAS ARE, ARE WHERE THE LINES GET DARK AND REALLY CLOSE.
SO LIKE THIS PIECE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A PORTION OVER HERE, I'M SURE YOU CAN'T SEE MY CURSOR EITHER.
THIS IS GENERALLY WHERE THE LOVE'S LANE PARCEL IS, YOU KNOW, IN THIS AREA ON THAT PART OF SCHULL ON, ON THE SCHULL.
SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S SOME EXTREMELY STEEP AREAS IN THERE.
UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE EXACTLY, UM, THE DEMOGRAPHY I HAVE AS A RESOURCE IS A MONTGOMERY COUNTY PRODUCT.
IT'S NOT THE GREATEST, IT'S NOT THE MOST ACCURATE.
WHEN A LAND DEVELOPMENT COMES IN, THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF SURVEY WORK THAT THEY HAVE TO DO THAT THAT GIVES US MUCH BETTER TOPOGRAPHY.
UM, I JUST, THIS IS A, A MAP THAT I ACTUALLY HAVE HANGING IN MY OFFICE, BUT IT, I, I THINK IT JUST, GIVEN THE COLOR VARIATION SHOWS YOU FROM WHERE STEEP SLOPES ARE IN THE TOWNSHIP, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, EVEN IF YOU LOOK OVER HERE ON, ON THE, THE RIGHT SIDE OF IT, AND AGAIN, YOU PROBABLY CAN'T SEE MY CURSOR, UM, OVER WHERE SEI, UM, HUNT CLUB COLONY, THOSE DEVELOPMENTS, THEY, YOU KNOW, THOSE HAVE SOME EXTREMELY STEEP SLOPES IN THERE.
[00:15:01]
ANYTHING THAT AS YOU'RE GETTING CLOSER TO THE RIVER, YOU'RE, YOU'RE GETTING MORE STEEP SLOPE AREAS.AND, BUT THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT IT WAS NOT ON INDIVIDUAL RANDOM PARCELS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TOWNSHIP.
JUST, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I THINK IT GIVES YOU A BETTER SENSE OF WHERE IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE IN THE TOWNSHIP.
THAT'S A KIND OF COOL LOOKING MAP.
SO IF I COULD ASK A QUESTION, AND JEN, I THINK LAID IT OUT ALREADY, BUT JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND IT.
LET'S SAY A DEVELOPER COMES IN WITH 20 ACRES.
I'LL MAKE THIS REAL SIMPLE, AND 10 OF IT THEY'RE GONNA BUILD ON, BUT THAT'S THOROUGHLY FLAT.
THE, THE REMAINDER IS STEEP SLOPES, SO THEY STAY WELL AWAY FROM THAT.
IS THAT CORRECT? WITHOUT ZONING RELIEF OR NOT? YES, THEY CAN, EVEN THOUGH IT'S ON THE PROPERTY, JUST THEY'RE NOT JUST BUILDING.
GENERALLY, I MEAN, EVERY PLAN IS DIFFERENT.
AS I TELL PEOPLE, I CAN'T APPROVE AN ID IN YOUR HEAD.
WHEN A PLAN COMES IN, WE'LL LOOK AT IT, WE'LL FIGURE OUT IF YOU NEED RELIEF OR IF YOU DON'T.
ANYBODY ELSE GOT QUESTIONS FOR JEFF OR JOE? SO BASICALLY, JEFF, WHAT THE SUPERVISORS ARE LOOKING FOR, WHAT THEY CHARGED US WITH DOING IS, IS ADDING THIS 15 TO 25% TO TRY TO MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE, UM, RESTRICTIVE, STRINGENT, DIFFICULT, A GOOD WORD FOR THE
I, I THINK WAS THE EDICT FROM RIGHT.
AND, AND ALSO TO TAKE OUR, THE GENS AND OUT OF IT SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THE CASE FOR THE, I DON'T THINK THEY SPECIFICALLY SAID THAT.
I MEAN, I'VE DISCUSSED THAT WITH THEM, AND I THINK AS WE WERE DOING THIS, IT MADE MORE SENSE TO THAT.
THAT'S THE BENEFIT THOUGH, WITH THE ECONOMISTS, THAT THE, OUR, OUR ENGINEERS DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THE CALL.
THEY CAN MAKE THE, THE APPLICANT ANYTHING.
THE ZONING HEARING BOARD SHOULD BE AN INDEPENDENT BODY AND INDEPENDENT DECIDING AND INDEPENDENT, YOU KNOW, DECISIONS MAKING BILLBOARD, BRINGING JEN OR JEN'S FIRM INTO IT EARLY, I THINK MUDDLED THE PROCESS.
THE OTHER THING I WAS GONNA MENTION IS THAT WITH THE, UM, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU HAVE TO SEEK A VARIANCE, INSTEAD OF GETTING A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, THERE'S FIVE CRITERIA THAT GENERALLY HAVE TO BE PROVEN TO GET A VARIANCE.
ONE OF THOSE CRITERIA IS THAT YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT YOU'RE REQUESTING THE LEAST AMOUNT OF RELIEF POSSIBLE.
SO WITH A, UNDER THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION STANDARD, IF YOU MEET THE CRITERIA, THEN YOU CAN DO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOW THAT YOU COULD MAYBE DO A PROJECT THAT WAS A LITTLE SMALLER.
YOU KNOW, YOU JUST SAY, NO, I, HERE, HERE'S YOUR CRITERIA.
I MEET 'EM, I CAN DO WORK IN THE ENTIRE STEEP SLOPE.
WHEREAS WITH THE VARIANCE, UM, TEST, THE ZONING HEARING BOARD HAS THE ABILITY THEN TO SAY, WELL, COULDN'T YOU HAVE PUT THIS OVER HERE INSTEAD OF OVER HERE? OR COULDN'T THIS PROJECT WORK THIS MUCH SMALLER? AND THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT REALLY GIVE YOU MORE LEEWAY, HAVING IT BE UNDER THE VARIANCE STANDARD.
SO, UM, NO OTHER QUESTIONS, ANYBODY? GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT? YEAH, WE'LL DO PUBLIC, NOBODY ELSE ON THE BOARD'S GOOD RIGHT NOW AT THIS POINT.
WE CAN GO, BUT RIGHT NOW I'M GONNA ASK THEM FOR PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS.
AND, UM, IF ANYBODY'S GOT ANY PUBLIC COMMENT THAT THEY'D LIKE TO STEP UP, YOU GOTTA COME UP AND GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND UP AT THE PODIUM, GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND, UH, MAKE YOUR STATEMENT.
UM, SHAWNA ROURKE, UM, 1 21 HOPWOOD ROAD.
UH, I'VE GOT TWO QUESTIONS, I GUESS MOVE FOR THE ENGINEERING.
UH, I KNOW YOU SAID THAT YOU'VE ALREADY GOT FINAL, UH, UH, APPROVAL ON THIS.
BUT OF THE HOPWOOD PROJECT IS, IS YOUR CONTENTION THEN THAT THERE ARE NO SLOPE STEEP SLOPES, GREATER THAN 25 DEGREES ON THAT PROPERTY? UM, THEY HAVE, THEY THEY ARE, THEY ARE IN, THEY STILL HAVE TO GET FINAL PLAN APPROVAL.
AND THEY, AND I'M PRETTY SURE YOU WERE NOTIFIED OF THEIR ZONING HEARING, BOARD HEARING THREE, FOUR MONTHS AGO.
UH, AND YOU GUYS WERE AWARE OF THIS? YES.
AT THE TIME WHEN YOU GAVE THE FINAL APPROVAL THAT THEY HAD SLOPES THAT ARE GREATER THAN 25%, WE DIDN'T GIVE FINAL APPROVAL.
THE ZONING HEARING BOARD GRANTED THEM RELIEF FROM THE ORDINANCE AS IT STANDS TODAY.
BUT KNOWING THAT THIS WAS IN THE WORKS OF CHANGING THE ORDINANCE TO, UH, ANYTHING OVER 25 WAS A WHOLE DIFFERENT DEAL AND A VARIANCE.
IT'S JUST THAT SO MANY THINGS WITH RESPECT TO HOPWOOD.
UM, THE HOPWOOD PROJECT HAD BEEN LIQUID.
EVERYTHING FROM THE ZONING AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT PUT UP A PETITION, AND THEN THE ZONING WAS CHANGED, AND THEN IT WAS LIMITED TO CERTAIN, IT USED TO BE R ONE AND THE ZONING WAS CHANGED.
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THEY HAD THE INITIAL PROPOSAL AND THEY WANTED TO MAXIMIZE THE NUMBER OF, UH, PROPERTIES ON THERE.SO THEY WANTED RELIEF TO MOVE THE BASINS INTO STEEP SLOPE AREA.
AND, UM, IT ALL GOT SHAMA SCH SMOOTHED SMOOTHED OVER WHEN EVERYONE WAS AWARE THAT THIS ORDINANCE WAS ABOUT READY TO COME UP.
UH, I WOULD AGREE OVER MEAN IT WAS A PUBLIC PROCESS.
WE'VE, WE'VE HAD THEM IN NUMEROUS PUBLIC MEETINGS, THIS BOARD'S APPROVED.
BUT, BUT UNDER THE GREATER THAN 25%, IT WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN A, AN EXEMPTION.
IT WOULD'VE HAD IT GOTTEN A VARIANCE.
AND I'M SURE EVERYBODY IN HERE WILL PROBABLY ASK US WHY WE DIDN'T DO THIS EARLIER.
AND I CAN'T, THERE'S NO GOOD REASON WHY WE DIDN'T DO IT EARLIER, BUT WE ARE DOING IT NOW.
BUT, UM, WE STILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE REPERCUSSIONS OF THAT.
AND JEN, I WON'T, I WON'T SPEAK FOR JEN, BUT I THINK THAT THE, THE ENGINEERING AND THE SITE PLAN IS GOING FOR HOPWOOD ROAD IS GOING TO BE, UM, A PROPER LAND DEVELOPMENT THAT'S GOING TO CONTROL THE WATER AND CONTROL THE, THE RUNOFF AS NEEDED FOR THAT.
JUST SO THAT EVERYBODY'S AWARE, YOU KNOW, THE PROBLEMS WE'RE HAVING IN CALIFORNIA RIGHT NOW WITH THE MUDSLIDES MM-HMM.
AND THAT IS DUE TO THE HOUSES BEING BUILT ON STEEP UNSTABLE LAND.
SO WE HAVE ONE OF TWO, WE HAVE ONE OF TWO SCENARIOS HERE.
EITHER THOSE BASINS THAT ARE GONNA BE PUT IN THERE, WHICH APPARENTLY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE, UH, PERMEABLE, UH, PERMEABLE, UH, BASINS, UM, EITHER THE UM, UM, ROCK BASIN THAT MAKES UP THAT STEEP SLOPE WILL NOT PERMIT ENOUGH PERMEABILITY, IN WHICH CASE WILL GET FLASH FLOODS, OR THEY WILL, UM, ACCEPT THAT MUCH PERMEABILITY, WHICH WE HAVE WORRIED ABOUT THAN MUD FLOODS.
SO IT'S, IT'S STILL, EVEN THOUGH IT'S GONE TO POINT OF FINAL, UM, APPROVAL, IT, IT DESERVES A SECOND LOOK AT, UM, SO THAT THE PEOPLE IMMEDIATELY DOWNSTREAM ARE NOT HAVING EROSION PROBLEMS. THE VELOCITY OF THE STREAM THAT WE HAVE ON OUR PROPERTY IS UNBELIEVABLE.
AND IT DOESN'T JUST HAPPEN, UH, SLOWLY.
AND SO WE'RE FORCED TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH, UM, OUR PATHWAYS AND THE DRIVEWAYS AND STUFF LIKE THAT BEING CUT RIGHT UNDERNEATH FROM THE STREAM.
THE ONLY THING WE CAN DO IS THROW ROCKS IN THERE AND TO TRY AND STOP IT.
BUT THAT'S PUTTING, BECAUSE SOMEONE WANTS TO MAKE EXTRA MONEY, RATHER THAN HAVING A CONSERVATIVE DEVELOPMENT, UH, AND LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF, UH, UM, NON, UH, PERMEABLE RUNOFF, WE WE'RE ENDING UP HAVING TO TAKE MATTERS IN OUR OUT.
YOU DO UNDERSTAND IT WAS A REAL GOOD MOVE THAT YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT.
WELL, YOU DO UNDERSTAND THAT, LIKE WE SAID EARLIER, THE FOUR CLAIMS WHICH INCLUDES HELP WITH WAS THIS CLAIM WOULD NOT COVER THAT BECAUSE THOSE WERE APPLICATIONS THAT WERE APPLIED FOR BEFORE THIS ORDINANCE.
WELL, YEAH, BUT THE ORDINANCE IS STILL NOT IN EFFECT, YOU KNEW WAS COMING DOWN THAT FEES WOULD BE GRANDFATHERED ANYHOW.
SO WHEN THEY COME BACK FOR FINAL APPROVAL ON THAT PLAN, I THINK THAT'S THE TIME TO BRING IT UP TO, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY'RE HERE FOR FINAL APPROVAL.
BUT YOU KEEP ME INFORMED AS TO WHEN THAT HAPPENS, BECAUSE I'LL BRING ALL THE NEIGHBORS YEAH, JEFF WILL, THAT'S ONLINE PUBLICLY.
LIKE TONIGHT'S MEETING WAS A SURPRISE TO US.
I ADVERTISE THAT JUST LIKE I THINK PHONE CALL TO BE HERE.
THAT'S, I MEAN, THAT'S, SO I DON'T KNOW IF I JUST GOT BAD INFORMATION OR NOT, BUT THE, THE SITUATION, EXCUSE ME, SITUATION STILL IS PRESENT THAT IF, IF IT GOES AHEAD AS PLANNED.
UM, THE LAST, UH, MEETING IN JANUARY, I THINK WAS THE 20TH.
UM, THERE WERE PEOPLE FROM THE PROVIDENCE BRIDGE PROJECT, WHICH WAS ANOTHER STEEP SLOPE PROJECT THAT WAS ON THERE.
AND, UM, UM, CHAIRMAN THEO AT THE TIME SAID HE ACTUALLY CAME OUT TO OUR HOUSE AND HE SAID, WE'LL NEVER ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN AGAIN.
THIS STEVE SLOPE, UH, SITUATION, NOW IT'S HAPPENING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREAM
UM, SO, UH, THAT'S KIND OF THIS.
SO LIKE I SAY, IT HASN'T BEEN FINAL PROVEN YET.
THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK.
THEY'RE HAVE TO PRESENT THAT BY THEN.
YOU KNOW, THE ZONING BOARD WOULD'VE MADE A RULING.
WE'LL, WE'LL KNOW WHAT THAT RULING IS AND WE CAN DISCUSS IT AT THAT FINAL.
UM, AND THEN AS FAR AS LOVER'S LIEN IS CONCERNED, UM, YOU GUYS, EVERYONE HERE IS FAMILIAR WITH THE LOVER'S LANE, RIGHT? I MEAN THAT'S WAY OVER 25.
AND SO, UH, AND APPARENTLY THEY'RE IN A PRELIMINARY, BUT NO, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT EVEN A TENTATIVE YET.
THEY, THEY, THEY HAVE A TENTATIVE APPLICATION IN, THEY DON'T HAVE TENANT PLAN APPROVAL.
HAD THEY, WE'VE HAD ONE MEETING AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION LEVEL WITH THEM, THEN THEY OPTED TO GO TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
I THINK THAT WAS SIX, EIGHT MONTHS
[00:25:01]
AGO.I'D HAVE TO LOOK BACK AT THE DATE OF WHEN THEY WERE IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO BE BACK.
TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST WITH YOU, MY MAIN CONCERN IS HOPWOOD PROJECT, BUT THE LOVER'S LANE, UH, PROJECT.
WELL, WE JUST STRIKE JUST LIKE SAID, YOU KNOW, SHE ALLOW, UNDERSTAND TO BUILD FIVE HOUSES, FIVE MORE LOTS.
SHE'S ALREADY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WELL AWARE OF LOVER'S LAND IN BUILDING STREET AND I LEAVE HERE TONIGHT MUCH HAPPIER AND MUCH MORE PLEASED THAN SOMEBODY IS LOOKING OUT.
RIGHT NOW, IT, THE TIMETABLE I'VE DISCUSSED WITH THE ATTORNEY FOR HOPWOOD YORKS IS POTENTIALLY FOURTH, FIRST QUARTER FOR FINAL PLAN APPROVAL.
I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA MAKE THAT, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE NEXT MONTH.
SO MY GUESS IS LOOK FOR THAT AGENDA IN APRIL.
SO I, I DON'T HAVE THE DATES IN APRIL IN FRONT OF ME, BUT LOOK FOR THAT IN THE APRIL MEETING TO BEGIN WITH.
IF YOU DON'T SEE IT IN APRIL, LOOK IN MAY.
SO, SO IT JUST, SO WE'LL JUST KEEP AN EYE ON WEBSITE.
THE AGENDA GOES UP USUALLY ANYWHERE BETWEEN THE WEDNESDAY AND FRIDAY BEFORE THE MEETING.
ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO COME UP AND MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS SUBJECT? AND THAT WAS GREAT.
STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE.
UH, COLLEGEVILLE UPPER PROVIDENCE.
SO I'M LISTENING TO SOME OF THE STUFF THAT YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT.
UM, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE THE PARK HOUSE AND I DON'T, I THINK, UH, JOE, YOU RE ACCUSED YOURSELF OF REPRESENTING, UH, THE PARK HOUSE MATTERS THE OTHER DAY.
THAT'S NOT, NOT WHAT? I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE STEEP SLOPE.
WELL, I'M GONNA GET INTO THAT 'CAUSE IT HAS TO DO WITH THE STEEP SLOPES AND MONTCLAIR AND COMPACTION STUDIES AND ENGINEER REPORTS FOR FLOOD LINES.
I DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, BUT WHAT I CAN, JOE, YOU DO KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS, AND I KNOW THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS ADDED BY THE, THE GUY WHO, UH, ACCUSED JEFF OF TRYING TO SNEAK SOMETHING PAST EVERYBODY WAS THAT, UH, THERE WAS ACTUALLY SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT DID THAT.
WELL, I, I SAW, ACTUALLY, I'VE BEEN SEEING SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS ABOUT IT.
JOE, MR. SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE GUY OR MULTIPLE GUYS, MR. KAJAK, IS HE IN THE ROOM? THAT'S YOU? YEAH.
I SAW THE, THE TEXT WHERE HE SAID JEFF WAS TRYING TO PULL A FAST ONE.
IT, IT DOESN'T THROW ME PAST ME.
I MEAN, I'VE SEEN THE DIRTY CORRUPT WORK IN THAT BUILDING INSPECTION DEPARTMENT.
WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT STEEP SLOPE.
AND LET ME FINISH WHAT YOU WELL, YOU ASK ME.
HANG ON ONE THING, TOM, YOU ASKED ME A QUESTION.
UM, I WILL ANSWER THE ONE QUESTION BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO LET THE PLANNING COMMISSION KNOW, UH, ANYWAY.
A RECUSAL IS WHEN YOU HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
BUT YOU CUS YOURSELF REPRESENTING THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ZONING DEPARTMENT, MY CASE.
I DON'T HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
I DE I THE BOARD VOTED TO KEEP, THE MAJORITY OF THE BOARD VOTED TO KEEP ME ON WORKING ON PARKHOUSE IN THE FACE OF ALL THESE ACCUSATIONS FROM FRIENDS OF PARKHOUSE THAT I WAS COULDN'T BE TRUSTED.
I KNOW THAT THOSE STATEMENTS ARE NOT TRUE, BUT IT BEGAN TO JUST BUILD AS A DISTRACTION.
SO I MADE A DECISION FOR TWO REASONS, NOT TO VOLUNTARILY NOT CONTINUE TO HANDLE THE PARKHOUSE MATTER.
SO THAT'S ONE HIRING NEXT YEAR AND ONE ATTORNEY SHOULD SEE IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH.
UM, IT WAS TOO MUCH OF A SIDES SHOW AND ME NOT HANDLING.
LET FINISH THINK YOUR QUESTION AND NOW I'M ANSWER.
REMEMBER YOU TOLD ME TO KEEP MY MOUTH WHITE.
WE'RE NOT GONNA ARGUE LIKE THIS.
WELL, I WAS GIVING PUBLIC COMMENT.
I CANCELED THE FREAKING MEETING.
WE'RE NOT GONNA, LET'S CANCEL IT THEN.
YOU'RE GONNA P**S OFF ALL THE RIBS.
WE'RE NOT GONNA YELL AT EACH OTHER.
I'M TRYING TO BE A REASONABLE PERSON.
DO ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT ABSOLUTELY.
FIRST OF ALL, YOU DIDN'T DISCLOSE THAT TO THE PUBLIC BEFORE, JUST NOW UNTIL I SAID THAT.
SECOND, LIKE NOBODY'S TALKING ABOUT YOU THINK THAT'S FUNNY ON THESE MONTCLAIR RESIDENTS THAT GOT FLOODED OUT AND YOU WANNA BUILD ON THE SLOPE? I DON'T.
AND IF YOU'RE AN ENGINEER AND YOU APPROVE THAT, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE.
YOU SAW WHAT HAPPENED IN MONTCLAIR.
YOU CAN'T ACCUSED OF SOMETHING THAT HASN'T HAPPENED YET.
YEAH, BUT YOU'RE TRYING TO PUSH.
NO, WE'RE NOT PUSHING ANYTHING.
YOU GUYS ARE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY.
SO AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO ARGUE WITH YOU, TOM, YOU SEEM LIKE A REASONABLE PERSON.
IT'S NOT SAYING YOU COME UP HERE WHERE YOU'VE GOT A CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER ABOUT SOMETHING.
I HAVE A $30 MILLION PENDING LAWSUIT AGAINST SEVERAL THE PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM.
I HEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO.
IT AFFECTS THE VALUE OF HOUSES.
IT AFFECTS THE VALUES OF LOVE'S LANE.
THIS COMMUNITY COULD, WE'RE HERE ABOUT.
DO YOU LIVE ON LOVE'S LANE? NO, BUT I I WELL THEN DON'T SPEAK ON THEIR BEHALF 'CAUSE IT AFFECTS THE VALUES OF HOMES.
WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THIS ARGUMENT, MAN.
[00:30:01]
ANYWHERE.YOU'RE ACTUALLY JUST MAKING YES, THE REST OF US REALLY P****D OFF.
SO EITHER GET TO A F*****G POINT OR GET THE F**K OUT.
DON'T CURSE AT ME AND SIT YOUR ASS DOWN.
HEY, TO RECESS FOR A MINUTE IN RECESS.
I'LL BRING THIS UP IN EMAIL, MINUTES IN RECESS.
I'LL BRING IT UP IN AN EMAIL CAN APPROVE WHERE YOU SIGN IT.
I CALL ME BACK IN THE ORDER PLEASE.
AND I'M ASKING EVERYBODY TO BE CIVIL.
THERE'S NO REASON THAT WE SHOULD BE ARGUING IF WE ALL LIVE IN THIS COMMUNITY.
PLEASE KEEP IT TO THE POINT THAT WE'RE WORKING ON.
IT'S NOT ABOUT SOME OTHER LAWSUITS AND IT'S, IT'S ABOUT THIS.
I PROMISE I WON'T THROW ANY PUNCHES.
UM, I JUST HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS AND AND I DON'T WANNA KINDA REPEAT THINGS AND I APPRECIATE FIRST AND FOREMOST UNDERSTANDING THIS A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
SO THANK YOU GUYS FOR TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO TO BETTER PROTECT THE COMMUNITY, IF YOU WILL, MOVING FORWARD.
UM, THERE ARE SOME OUTSTANDING THINGS.
I'M A PART OF THAT LOVER'S LANE, IF YOU WILL, PROJECT AND EVEN AMELIA STREET.
'CAUSE AMELIA STREET DOES AFFECT A FAMILY HOME.
AND LOVER'S LANE AFFECTS OTHER, YOU KNOW, OTHER FRIENDS AND SO FORTH.
BUT IT ALSO AFFECTS THE CEMETERY.
UM, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, WHAT EXACTLY PROMPTED TODAY'S DISCUSSION AND, AND THE START THIS ORDINANCE? I MEAN OBVIOUSLY WE KNOW WE NEEDED IT, BUT WHAT REALLY PROMPTED IT? WE'VE YEAH, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT INTERNALLY FOR A WHILE OF, OF TIGHTENING UP ALL SECTIONS OF THE ORDINANCE.
OUR ORDINANCE IS GETTING A LITTLE DATED.
I'M SURE YOU'VE BEEN AT A MEETING WHERE I SAID THAT BEFORE.
YEAH, 2005, RIGHT? WAS THIS LAST ORDINANCE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? UH, I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT DATE.
IT'S PROBABLY BEEN PATCHED A COUPLE TIMES.
AND IT'S BASED OFF THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY MODEL.
IT'S PROBABLY FROM 1990 SOMETHING.
BUT IT WAS REALLY PROMPTED BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS THROUGH THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THOSE FOUR APPLICATIONS.
AND THEN AT THE LAST BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING, WHICH WAS THE 16TH OF JANUARY, I THINK TOM YEAGER SAID, I, I REALLY WANNA GET THE STEEP SLOPE RELIEF THAT YOU AND JOE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THROUGH MM-HMM.
UH, I THINK, WELL WE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION THE NEXT DAY AND THEN FRIDAY WE LOOKED AT THE CALENDAR AND THERE'S CERTAIN DATES YOU HAVE TO MEET WHEN YOU DO AN ORDER, IF YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW IT FOR 30 DAYS.
SO YOU CAN'T HAVE THE HEARING BEFORE THAT.
WE COUNTED THE DAYS OUT AND IF I GOT THE APPLICATION IN BY I THINK THE 21ST, WHICH WAS A SUNDAY.
SO THE FRIDAY BEFORE WE COULD GET THE WHOLE PROCESS DONE OF ADOPTING THIS WITHIN ABOUT FOUR WEEKS.
WHICH IS THE CLOSEST AND THE QUICKEST I'VE EVER SEEN IT DONE.
BUT THE PLANNING COMMISSION SCHEDULE WORKED OUT AND THE BOARD WORKED OUT THE ADVERTISING, THE GETTING THE, THE COURT REPORT AND ALL THAT STUFF WORKED OUT TO HAVE IT ON THE 20TH OF, OF MARCH.
SO THAT'S WHY, WHILE IT MAY SEEM RUSHED AND IT MAY BE A LITTLE RUSHED, THAT'S WHY IT SUDDENLY JUST POPPED ON THE AGENDA.
AND THEN I GUESS MY SECOND QUESTION, THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF FEBRUARY 20TH, IS THAT WHEN THE FINALIZATION OF THIS GOES INTO NO, THAT'S WHEN THE BOARD WILL HOLD A HEARING.
THEY WILL HOLD A FORMAL HEARING.
OKAY, WE'LL HAVE A COURT REPORTER.
WE'LL MAKE GENERALLY THE SAME CASE WE'RE MAKING HERE.
THEY'LL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL VOTE.
SO THEY, THEY CAN VOTE IMPACT.
UM, SO I JUST WANNA KIND OF CLARIFY SOMETHING AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THAT LOVER'S LANE.
UM, THERE IS A HUNDRED FOOT RISE ON LOVER'S LANE AND THERE'S 15% OVER 15%, WELL OVER 15%, UM, HEIGHT, UH, IN TERMS OF THAT ON DIFFERENT VARIOUS, MULTIPLE LEVELS.
I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, HAS ANYBODY FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UM, ACTUALLY BEEN ON THE PROPERTY AND HAS IN EFFECT, HAS ANYBODY BEEN, JUST TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, HAS ANYBODY BEEN THERE AFTER TWO DAYS OF RAIN? I'VE BEEN THERE.
I HAVEN'T BEEN THERE AFTER TWO DAYS OF RAIN.
UM, THIS HAS, OF COURSE IT'S GOT PICTURES FROM IDA BUT IT HAS A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM I DO HAVE IN HERE, JUST SO YOU KNOW, AN EMAIL FROM THE MAL, UM, STATING THAT I HAVE ON THEIR BEHALF THIS VIDEO.
THEY HAVE VIDEO OF THEIR PROPERTY.
SO IT'S VIDEOS, PICTURES, UM, THERE'S VIDEOS AND PICTURES OF MONTCLAIR BACK FROM ST.
UM, JUST KIND OF HOW THE WATER FLOWS AFTER TWO DAYS POST RAIN.
I WILL HAVE THIS MORE UPDATED.
I JUST DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO TECHNOLOGY CHALLENGE FOR A BRIEF MO BRIEF MOMENT.
[00:35:01]
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE MORE GERMANE WHEN LOVE LANE COMES BACK IN.BUT IF YOU DON'T MIND GIVING THAT TO NO, I'M GONNA, THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IT'S DISTRIBUTED AND PUT ON OUR SERVER SO THAT EVERYBODY HAD IT.
'CAUSE IT'S JUST NICE SO YOU GUYS CAN SEE.
UM, AND I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE NICE AND ALSO THERE'S A DESAL SO IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THAT IS MY CAR
SO I'M LITERALLY JUST GOING DOWN MY FOOT OFF THE BRAKE AND THE GAS.
THANK GOD THERE'S NO IN FRONT OF ME.
BUT I WANT YOU TO BE ABLE TO SEE HOW QUICKLY THAT ACCELERATES AND THEN YOU'LL SEE HOW IT DIESEL ACCELERATES.
SO I JUST WANTED SOME OF THESE THINGS BECAUSE YOU GUYS WERE ALL WORKING, BUT SOMETIMES WE DON'T GET THAT CHANCE TO PHYSICALLY GO OUT.
BUT TWO DAYS POST RAIN, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TWO DAYS OF PURE RAIN AND THEN THERE'S LIKE THE STORM ON DECEMBER 18TH.
SO YOU'LL SEE THAT THEY'RE SIMILAR BUT THERE'S MORE WATER FLOOD RUSHED THROUGH.
MY THING IS, EVEN IF FOR THE LEVERS LANE PROJECT, WHEN PEN GOT, WHEN PEN DOCK COMES ON TO THE SURFACE, THAT WATER'S GONNA GO INTO THAT EXISTING C CREEK.
THERE'S A PICTURE OF JOHN MALLICK STANDING IN THAT CREEK.
YOU'LL SEE THE PICTURES OF, YOU KNOW, RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE RED BARN.
THAT'S A VIDEO THAT IS WHAT FLOWS ALL THE WAY DOWN TO, INTO, UM, MONTCLAIR BEHIND ST.
MIKE'S, UM, FOR AMELIA STREET ON TO PORT PROVIDENCE.
SO I WANT YOU GUYS TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE ACTUAL VALIDITY OF WHAT WE LIVE WITH EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY DAY.
'CAUSE YOU GUYS ARE ON THE PROPERTY.
UM, AGAIN, IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE NICE FOR YOU GUYS TO BE ABLE TO TAKE A LOOK AT A BIRD'S EYE VIEW.
UM, AGAIN, I APPRECIATE THIS, BUT I WANT TO, UM, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE THAT YOU GUYS CAN SEE WHAT WE'RE LIVING THROUGH.
NOT THAT YOU DON'T KNOW, BUT IT'S NICE WE HAVE, WE'LL HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE BOOTS ON THE GROUND.
SO WHEN WE'RE DOING STUFF LIKE THIS, AND AGAIN, I APPRECIATE IT, SO THANK YOU.
BUT WHEN YOU'RE DOING STUFF LIKE THIS, IT REALLY IS IMPORTANT THAT WE BUILD PROPERLY.
SO 11 HOMES ON LOVER'S LANE, STILL TOO MANY HOMES, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S GONNA, YOU KNOW, AFFECT THE EXISTING PROPERTIES AND YOU ALREADY HAVE EROSION HAPPENING AND THERE'S NOT EVEN ANYTHING BUILT ON THERE.
SO YOU'VE GOT THE CEMETERY, YOU'VE GOT, UM, MOUNT PROPERTY AND WHAT IT'S DOING.
AND UNDER THERE, JUST AGAIN, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT EVERYTHING THERE IS SHALE.
SO YOU'RE ALSO GONNA SEE PICTURES OF MOUNT'S PROPERTY IN TERMS OF SHALE, UM, ST.
MIKE'S, YOU KNOW, ON UM, ON LOVER'S LANE GOING DOWN.
YOU'RE GONNA SEE THE BACKSIDE OF IT.
THAT IS SHALE, IT'S RED ROCK AND BLUE ROCK OR BLUE ROCK AND RED ROCK.
BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE TO DIG INTO.
SO WE'RE IMPLODE HOWEVER THEY'RE DOING IT.
AND IF THEY DO WITH THE CEMETERY, THAT'S AN ISSUE YET.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, A HOLY GHOST CEMETERY.
SO IN CASE THAT HAPPENS, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I JUST WANTED YOU GUYS TO BE ABLE TO SEE ALL THAT STUFF.
I THINK WE LOOK FORWARD TO IT.
IS THERE A CHANCE, AND LIKE YOU SAID, I THINK JEFF MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE MOCK, THEY'RE WHAT, PRELIMINARY.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, LIKE I SAID, I JUST, THE EARLIER THIS THING, BUT DO JUST A CONVERSATION LOOKING, HEY, DO YOU THINK THERE'S A CHANCE THAT THEY COULD COME IN AND I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE I DON'T SURE YOU'VE TALKED TO FOLKS AND THEY COULD STRENGTHEN THAT AREA BY ACTUALLY BUILDING SOMETHING THERE THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BUFFER THAT EROSION FROM CONTINUING TO HAPPEN.
IT'S, HERE'S THE CHALLENGE BECAUSE THAT LAND RIGHT NOW, THERE'S A LOT OF SPRINGS UNDERNEATH THAT WHOLE AREA.
THERE'S SPRINGS UNDER THERE THAT'S ALL IMPERVIOUS.
I MEAN, YOU'RE LITERALLY GOING DOWN, EVEN, EVEN ON FLAT LAND, YOU'RE STILL GOING THROUGH SHALE.
YOU'LL SEE PICTURES OF THE CEMETERY AND THAT'S ON FLAT LAND.
THEY HAVE TO DIG THROUGH SHALE JUST IN THE CEMETERY.
THAT'S THE MOST DIFFICULT CEMETERY TO BUILD IN, IN THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY AREA.
'CAUSE I ACTUALLY KNOW THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO DIG THERE.
SO WHEN YOU'RE DIGGING IN THAT LAND, THERE'S A LOT OF IMPERVIOUS ISSUES.
SO IT'S GONNA FLOW OUT ANYWAY.
SO THESE HOMES, I EVEN IF THEY FORM STILL MORE MANAGEMENT, THEY'RE STILL GONNA BE A PROBLEM.
THE ONLY THING, AND I'M TRYING TO KEEP AN OPEN MIND AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND I, I, YOU KNOW, I HEAR YOU AND I, NOBODY WANTS, NOBODY WANTS BAD THINGS.
I BUT I THINK DO WE KNOW, OR DO YOU KNOW THAT AN ENGINEER, A BUILDING ENGINEER ISN'T GONNA SAY, WE'VE DONE THIS BEFORE.
WE KNOW HOW TO DO THIS AND WE CAN MAKE THIS RIGHT.
BUT IF SOMEBODY SAID THAT WE CAN MAKE THIS RIGHT BECAUSE WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE, I MEAN, CAN'T WE, CAN'T WE LOOK AT THAT? I'M NOT SAYING NOT TO LOOK AT IT PER SE.
I MEAN, WE HAVE TO GIVE EVERYBODY A FAIR SHAPE, RIGHT? SURE.
BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT FROM CURRENT BUILDINGS, THAT THE FLOODING HAS THESE, THESE RETENTION BASINS AND THESE STORMWATER BASINS HAVE NOT HELPED.
SO THAT'S ALL, YOU KNOW, I JUST WANTED YOU GUYS TO SEE THE BIRD'S EYE VIEW OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE THOSE DAYS.
UM, AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN ALL COME TO A GREAT RESOLUTION FOR BUILDING PROPERLY, NOT BUILDING OVER AN EXCESS, BUT BUILDING PROPERLY HOWEVER THAT LOOKS.
AND WE A HUNDRED PERCENT AGREE WITH THAT.
AND I THINK EVERYBODY LIVES HERE, LIVES IN TOWNSHIP, LIKE I WAS TRYING TO SAY BEFORE, WE ALL WANT IT TO BE RIGHT.
UM, WHO DO I GIVE THIS TO? DID I GIVE IT TO YOU? JEFF? JEFF? OKAY.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING AND GIVING CONTEXT.
[00:40:01]
MM-HMM.PERFECT WORLD, I SEE WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO GO WITH THE NEW ORDINANCE TO PROTECT US A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
WHAT CONCERNS ME IS, I GUESS BECAUSE OF THE EXISTING STATUES OF WHERE WE'RE AT WITH AMELIA STREET AND ALSO LOVER'S LANE.
MY CONCERN IS I WISH WE WOULD'VE HAD THIS MAYBE SOONER.
UM, I'M NOT SURE HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT.
'CAUSE I STILL NEED TO UNDERSTAND IT A LITTLE BIT THOROUGHLY.
UM, I CAN'T SAY THAT I 1000% UNDERSTAND THIS.
UM, I'M DEFINITELY WANNA TRY TO, THAT'S, I'M HERE TO LISTEN AND PARTICIPATE AND I APPRECIATE THE EXPLANATIONS THAT YOU GUYS ARE REALLY GIVING.
UM, I WISH IN A PERFECT WORLD, BUT THIS IS NOT ALL ORDINANCES THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, MAINTAIN IT AT 15% VERSUS JUST THE 25.
UM, IN SOME CASES SOME ARE HIGHER, SOME ARE LOWER.
UM, AND IN THIS CASE, LIKE I SAID, I'M LOOKING AT LOVER'S LANE IN A PARTICULAR, UH, AMELIA STREET.
YOU'RE GOING STRAIGHT DOWN UNDER A TRESTLE.
YOU'RE GOING STRAIGHT DOWN FROM A CEMETERY AND IT'S, IT'S A DROP.
UM, I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHERE I FEEL YET ABOUT THAT.
THE THING'S PART ABOUT ZONING ORDINANCE IS, UM, AND STEVE SLOPES ARE, ARE PART OF ZONING.
UM, ANYBODY CAN ASK FOR A VARIANCE FROM ANYTHING IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
RIGHT? SO EVEN IF YOU SAID YOU MAY NEVER DO ANYTHING ON A SLOPE GREATER THAN TWO RIGHT DEGREES, IT WOULDN'T, AND THE PERSON WHO IN IT ASKS FOR A VARIANCE FROM THAT.
SO YOU CAN ALWAYS GET SOME RELIEF.
SO THESE ORDINANCES CAN'T REALLY, THEY, THEY DON'T HAVE LIKE THE PERFECTION THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO JUST MAKE THE PROBLEM COMPLETELY GO AWAY.
BUT WE DID MAKE THIS, AND I KNOW IT IS A LOT TO FOLLOW.
BUT I WILL SAY WITHOUT ANY DOUBT, THE NEW ORDINANCE PROTECTS YOU MORE.
WELL, WHAT I DO SEE, AND, AND AGAIN TO TO ANSWER UM, SOME OF THE QUESTIONS IS I SEE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE AN IMPROVEMENT AND THAT'S WHAT I APPRECIATE.
UM, UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, HINDSIGHT'S 2020, WE WISH WE COULD HAVE MAYBE DONE A LITTLE BIT EARLIER.
UM, BUT I'M STILL TRYING TO GET GRASP WHAT WHAT MAKES SENSE.
WELL, AND I THINK, I THINK, YOU KNOW, I'VE JUST SAID WE ALL WISH WE HAD PROBABLY DONE THIS YEARS AGO.
AND UH, AND THERE'S PROBABLY OTHER ORDINANCES IN OUR SYSTEM THAT WE ARE GONNA PROBABLY BITE US IN THE ASS SOMEDAY.
SO WE'LL HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE ALL PARK OUTS, WE ALL WISH WE HAD DONE SOMETHING 20 YEARS AGO.
AND LISTEN, I JUST STARTED TO GET INTO THE GAME NOT TOO LONG, ABOUT A YEAR.
WE'RE TRYING TO FIX SOME OF THIS STUFF AND, AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DO WANT TO DO IT.
SO, AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT.
GREAT INSIGHT OF WHAT YOU BROUGHT TO US.
AND UM, YOU KNOW, I HOPE YOU'RE GONNA COME BACK WHEN WE GET, UH, YOU KNOW, THE NEXT I'VE BEEN HERE FOR EVERY MEETING.
LISTEN, I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.
I'LL DROP THIS ON AND THEN GIVE IT BACK TO YOU NEXT MEETING.
YOU CAN EVEN, YOU CAN KEEP IT.
JAMES HOFFMAN, 1199 SECOND AVENUE IRISH SCHWART.
UH, I'D LIKE TO MAKE, FIRST MAKE AN APOLOGY FOR MY LANGUAGE, UH, TO THE BOARD AND TO OUR RESIDENTS.
UH, I JUST FELT AS AN INTERVENTION WAS NECESSARY AND WELL, IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, THANK YOU.
WE ALL GOT, UM, WHAT I'D LIKE TO SAY IS, I, I I, I THANK YOU GUYS FOR TAKING THE INITIATIVE TO GO AS FAR AS YOU HAVE GONE.
I DON'T THINK IT'S FAR ENOUGH.
I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DEFINITION OF A SLEEP STEEP SLOPE IS.
UH, AS LAYMAN, AND I'M JUST GOING TO READ SOMETHING HERE, IT'S JUST A, A QUICK SYNOPSIS OF, FOR THOSE THAT ARE WATCHING AND THOSE THAT ARE HERE, SIMPLY STATED, A SLOPE IS MEASURED OVER A RISE OVER RUN.
A STRETCH OF LAND 100 FEET LONG, IT RISES THREE FEET IN ELEVATION, HAS A SLOPE OF 3%.
THOSE OF US THAT KNOW, KNOW THOSE OF US THAT DON'T, DON'T TOPOGRAPHIC MATCH.
THIS IS THOSE PREPARED BY THE ES GEOLOGICAL SURVEY AND FIELD SURVEYS PREPARED BY APPLICANT SURVEYORS DURING THE SUBDIVISION AND LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS ARE THE MOST COMMON SOURCES OF SLOPE INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO MUNICIPALITIES.
COUNTY SOIL SURVEYS PRODUCED BY THE US DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE ALSO CONTAIN VALUE.
TOPICAL, UH, TOPIC GRAPHICAL INFORMATION.
THESE SURVEY CATEGORIES CATEGORIZE SOIL TYPES IN PART BASED ON SLOPE WITH TYPICAL CLASSIFICATION OCCURRING IN THE FOLLOWING RANGES, ZERO TO 3%, THREE TO EIGHT, EIGHT TO 15, 15
[00:45:01]
TO 25, AND 25 TO 50.AND WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT IN THIS DRAFT THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, WE'RE LUMPING THAT 15 TO 25% IN, UH, NEGLECTING THE SOIL TYPES.
BECAUSE ONE TYPE OF SOIL MAY WITHSTAND 15%.
WHAT I'M ALSO, UH, ASKING IS TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE SOIL TYPES AND THE, THE DOWNSTREAM EFFECT BELOW IT.
SO WHILE THE, THE ACTUAL PROPERTY ITSELF MAY BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE, THE, THE SUBDIVISION THAT YOU'RE ASKING, WHAT IS DOWNSTREAM FROM THE FLOW RATE COMING OFF OF THAT PROPERTY MAY NOT END MONTCLAIR.
SO I THINK THIS NEEDS TO BE EXPANDED.
I THINK THIS NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT IN A DEEPER FASHION, CONSIDERING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF OUR TOWNSHIP.
AND THIS IS GOING TO BE, THIS INFLUX IS ONLY GOING TO COME MORE OFTEN.
I THINK WE NEED TO REGULATE IT.
I THINK WE NEED TO REGULATE IT STRONGLY AND FIRMLY.
YOU SAY, YOU SAY IT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT DOWN.
SO YOU'RE SAYING, SAYING, SO, SO THE LOVER'S LANE, WE NEED TO KNOW WHERE THAT RUNOFF IS GOING TO GO.
IT'S GONNA GO DOWN TO MONTCLAIR.
BUT I MEAN, WHAT ARE THE SOIL? WHAT, WHAT IS IT GOING TO, YOU KNOW, THE IMPERVIOUS, UH, AREAS ARE OBVIOUSLY GONNA CO CREATE MORE.
UH, ARE WE TALKING THIS IS BUILT ON JUST ALREADY JUST ROCK, WHICH ALL THAT WATER IS ALREADY RUNNING OFF.
SO IT, IT MAY OR NOT NECESSARILY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
OR WHERE ARE THEY GONNA CHANNEL THAT WATER TOO? UM, WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT MUCH MORE IN DEPTH THAN THE ACTUAL PARCEL ITSELF.
BECAUSE THE PARCEL'S OBVIOUSLY ON A STEEP SLOPE, IT'S UP HIGH, IT'S NOT GONNA FLOOD
SO WHAT WE HAVE, WE HAVE TO PROTECT IS THE LOW LANDS BE BELOW.
AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE, THE FOCUS OF THE CONDITIONS THAT WERE ATTACHED, UM, TO THE ONES THAT WHERE THE RELIEF WAS GRANTED, THE CONDITIONS THAT WE ASKED FOR AND SUCCESSFULLY GOT FROM THE ZONING HEARING BOARD ALL HAD TO DO WITH THE CAPTURE OF THE WATER AND HOW IT WAS GOING TO BE CAPTURED.
AND MAKING THEM POST SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF MONEY FOR ANNUAL INSPECTION REPORTS ON THE STATUS OF THAT SYSTEM THAT'S HOLDING THE WATER AND EVEN, EVEN PUTTING MONEY AWAY FOR FUTURE REPLACEMENT.
SO THERE, THERE WAS, IN ALL THOSE HEARINGS, THERE WAS A FOCUS ON THE VERY THING THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO.
WELL, THAT'S JUST WHAT I WANT TO MAKE SURE, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S NOT, I SAID IT'S NOT THE PROPERTY ITSELF THAT THIS, THIS AFFECTED IT IS EVERYTHING.
AND, AND, AND I THINK PLEASE, AS I SAID TO, TO THE YOUNG LADY BACK THERE, PLEASE KEEP COMING WHEN THE NEXT TIME, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, EITHER THE GLOVER'S LANE OR, UH, AMELIA COMES UP, PLEASE COME BACK.
ANYBODY, ANYBODY WANT TO COME UP? UM, THIS GUY'S NAME IS BILL FELDEN.
I JUST DIDN'T WANNA SAY I'M VERY, VERY GOOD LOOKING PICTURE IN THE ENQUIRER.
UH, SO I, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION ON THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE HERE.
UH, UH, THREE, FOUR AND FIVE, UH, 1 34 C IS DELETED.
1 34 F IS DELETED AND ONE 30 4G IS DELETED.
SO THAT MEANS, YOU KNOW, ROADS, ACCESS DRIVEWAYS, PARKING FACILITIES, UH, UH, ONSITE SEWAGE DISPOSAL FACILITIES AND UH, UH, THOSE PRINCIPLE AND ACCESSORY USES EXCEPTIONALLY POOLS.
UH, BUT ONLY WHEN NO, UH, VIABLE, UH, ALTERNATE IS POSSIBLE.
SO, SO ROADS AND, AND DRIVEWAYS CANNOT EXCEED 15%.
IS THAT WHAT I'M READING HERE? I MEAN, IT SOUNDS REASONABLE.
WELL, WOULD, WOULD YOU AGREE, JOE, THAT IT WOULD FALL UNDER THE SAME PARAMETERS AS WE THE OTHER PROPERTY, THE NUMBER OF THINGS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN THE 15 TO 25% SPECIAL EXCEPTION WAS REDUCED, RIGHT? YES.
IT CAN STILL ASK FOR A VARIANCE.
ALSO THIS LIST OF A THROUGH G THAT THIS, THAT THOSE THREE ARE PULLED FROM, ARE, THIS ARE THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION CRITERIA.
SO THE CRITERIA WAS TO ASK GILMORE AND ASSOCIATES FOR THEIR DETERMINATION THAT IT COULD BE THAT IT WAS ACCEPTABLE.
SO WE'RE REMOVING THAT DETERMINATION.
THE, THE PROHIBITED USES AND, AND THE CONSERVATION USES THAT ARE ON 180 2, 1 33 THAT AREN'T TOUCHED BY THIS.
[00:50:01]
STILL WHAT GUIDE THE ACTUAL USES THAT CAN GO IN THERE FROM 15 TO 25%.AND THEN ANYTHING, ANYTHING, ANYTHING.
AND EVERYTHING OVER 25% IS PROHIBITED.
EXCEPT BY POSSIBLE VARIANCE POSITIVE, THERE'S ALWAYS THAT VARI, YOU KNOW, THAT BUILDING FOR THEM TO GO FOR A VARIANCE.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALWAYS THAT.
SO I, I MEAN, I THINK THIS IS GOOD AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, MOVING FORWARD, AND I LIKE THE, THE YOUNG LADY WHO SAID SHE'S ONLY BEEN COMING HERE FOR A YEAR.
YOU KNOW, I, I THINK SINCE THE PARK HOUSE THING HAS COME TO A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE COMING OUT, AND I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S, UH, COMING TO THE, UH, AWARENESS AS WELL THAT WE'VE GOT THIS TSUNAMI OF DEVELOPMENT COMING OUT.
IF I MIGHT SUGGEST EVERYBODY STAYING AROUND THE END OF THE MEETING, I HAVE ANOTHER ZONING ORDINANCE OR ORDINANCE RELATED COMMENT THAT I NEED TO MAKE TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
I KNOW WE INTEND TO GET OUTTA HERE ONCE THE MAIN SUBJECTS DONE.
IT WON'T BE ABOUT FIVE MORE MINUTES, I PROMISE.
STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE.
HI, I'M KIMBERLY LEE SHEY FROM 1 21 HOPWOOD ROAD ALSO.
UM, I WOULD JUST LIKE SOMEONE TO EXPLAIN TO US WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A VARIANCE AND AN EXCEPTION.
THAT'S A GOOD LEGAL, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
SO YOU HAVE A ZONING, YOU, YOU, YOU HAVE TWO MAJOR ORDINANCES THAT ARE IN PLAY WHENEVER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING STUFF ON LAND.
THE ZONING ORDINANCE SAYS HOW YOU CAN USE YOUR LAND AND THERE'S A, A LAND DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE THAT SAYS, HERE'S THE RULES TO FOLLOW, TO BUILD THE STUFF THAT YOU PUT ON YOUR LAND.
THE ZONING ORDINANCE SAYS THAT THIS DISTRICT ALLOWS HOUSES AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE TELLS YOU HOW YOU BUILD HOUSES.
RIGHT NOW WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND HOW YOU USE THE LAND.
AND THERE'S A WHOLE SET OF RULES IN, IN THE LAW THAT APPLY JUST TO ZONING.
AND IT IS ITS OWN WORLD WITH ITS OWN SET OF RULES.
AND WITHIN THAT SET OF RULES, IT SAYS THAT IF THERE'S ANYTHING IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE THAT YOU THINK WORKS A HARDSHIP ON YOU, YOU CAN ASK FOR A VARIANCE, WHICH MEANS YOU CAN ASK THE ZONING HEARING BOARD TO SAY THAT THAT RULE DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A DECK BUT YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH BACKYARD SETBACK, YOU CAN COME TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD AND SAY, I BACK UP TO A FIELD, NOBODY'S GOING TO BE BOTHERED BY IT.
MY NEIGHBORS ON BOTH SIDES HAVE SIGNED A LETTER, THEY AGREE WITH ME DOING IT.
CAN I PLEASE ENCROACHED INTO THE SETBACK BY FIVE? OKAY.
COULD YOU EITHER WANNA STEP OUT OR COULD WE'RE TRYING TO, WE ALL CAN HEAR RIGHT HERE YOU SORRY.
SO, SO THAT WOULD BE THE GRID OF A VARIANCE.
THE, THE LAW ALSO CREATES AN ENTIRELY SEPARATE ANIMAL, WHICH IS THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WITH A SPECIAL.
SO WHAT HAPPENS IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE IS YOU HAVE, UM, USES THAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE.
LIKE IF IT'S, IT'S THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, IT'LL SAY YOU MAY HAVE SINGLE HOUSES, TWIN HOUSES.
YOU MAY HAVE A GARAGE, YOU MAY HAVE A DETACHED GARAGE, UH, BABU.
THEN THERE'S, AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST, THERE'S THINGS THAT ARE PROHIBITED IN THAT ZONING DISTRICT.
AND THEN IN THE MIDDLE THERE ARE USES THAT ARE ALLOWED BY SPECIAL EXCEPTION, MEANING THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL CRITERIA ADDED.
SO IT IS AN ALLOWED USE, BUT YOU HAVE TO PROVE YOU MEET THESE ADDITIONAL CRITERIA.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU WERE IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, MOST ZONING ORDINANCES AREN'T GOING TO ALLOW A GAS STATION IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD.
BUT BECAUSE GASOLINE'S A CONVENIENCE TO EVERYONE, THEY WILL ALLOW IT.
IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, IF YOU MEET THIS LIST OF CRITERIA, BIGGER SETBACKS, BIGGER OFFERING CONTROL, THE LIGHTING AND BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
AND IF YOU SHOW THAT YOU DO ALL THOSE THINGS, THEN THEY, THEN YOU COULD BE GRANTED A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
SO IT'S REALLY MORE A MATTER OF BY THE RULES.
IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU PROVE A, B, C, D, THEN YOU'RE ALLOWED TO THE RELIEF.
WHEREAS WITH A VARIANCE, IT'S HARDER FOR THE APPLICANT BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF MEETING A CHECKLIST, IT'S A MATTER OF SHOWING WHY YOU HAVE A HARDSHIP.
IT IS, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE FIVE HARDSHIPS FOR WHAT, WHAT SHIPS ARE? I KNOW THERE'S, UM, THERE'S, IT IS LOT CONFIGURATION.
SO IF YOUR LOT IS ODDLY SHAPED AND YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE LIKE A TRIANGLE LOT, YOU WANNA PUT A, A PORCH, A PATIO ON THE BACK AND IT STICKS OUT INTO THE SETBACK A LITTLE BIT.
THERE'S, UM, YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT YOU DIDN'T CAUSE
[00:55:01]
THE HARDSHIP.YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE MINIMUM RELIEF NECESSARY TO ALLOW YOU TO REASONABLY USE YOUR PROPERTY.
AND YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT IT'S NOT INCONSISTENT WITH YOUR SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD AND HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE.
SO WHEN THAT SAYS ANY AND ALL GREATER THAN 25 ARE PROHIBITED, CAN SOMEONE DRIVE FOR AN EXCEPTION TO THAT PROHIBITION? IT WOULDN'T BE A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
IT WOULD BE A VARIANCE ON VARIANCE.
THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION, IT STILL APPLIES FROM 15 TO 25 AND, AND THEN ABOVE 25 WHERE WE'RE, WHERE WE'RE SAYING YOU CAN'T DO THAT, THEY, THEY ASK FOR VARIANCE TO SAY, PLEASE LET ME DO THAT.
ANYBODY ELSE STEPPING UP? ALRIGHT, JOSEPH, WHAT, WHAT'S OUR PLAN HERE? UM, I THINK IT'S, IF NOBODY HAS ANY OBJECTION, I THINK IT'S RIGHT FOR A RECOMMENDATION TO GO TO THE SUPERVISORS WITH A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL.
SO, UH, YOU HEARD JOE HERE, OUR, OUR, UH, GOAL HERE IS TO, UH, SOMEBODY TO MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THIS NEW ORDINANCE TO GO TO THE, UH, SUPERVISORS FOR, UM, FINAL APPROVAL.
UH, SO WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS JUST RECOMMENDING TO THEM THAT WE THINK, THINK THIS IS A GOOD START, A GOOD PLAN.
SO ANYBODY WANNA MAKE THAT MOTION? I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
BOB, YOU WANT TO TAKE YOUR MOTION? UH, THE MOTION THAT, THAT WHAT WE'VE SEEN UP THERE AS A PRESENTATION MATERIAL IS, UM, ANYTHING GREATER THAN 25 WOULD HAVE NO DEVELOPMENT PERIOD.
AND THE, THE 15 TO 25 IS ADDED AS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, UH, BASED ON, UH, YOU, YOU, YOU COULD PROBABLY JUST SAY, RECOMMEND THE BOARD.
APPROVE THE ORDINANCES DRAFTED.
I'LL SECOND ALL JERRY MADE A SECOND.
AND ALL IN FAVOR OF SENDING THIS TO THE SUPERVISORS WITH A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL, SAY AYE.
ALL IN FAVOR? NONE OPPOSED AND NONE, UH, ABSTAINING.
SO THAT HAS PASSED THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
THANK YOU ALL FOR, STICK AROUND IF YOU WANT, BUT WE GOT MORE STUFF.
WELL, THE, THE REST OF THIS IS QUICK.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS ]
UM, THE, THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING WILL BE FEBRUARY 21ST.WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE MINOR SUBDIVISION FOR HALF IN THE ROAD.
THEY HAD TO DO SOME EXTRA WORK ON IT.
UM, THEY RECEIVED THEIR REVIEW LETTERS, WERE SORT OF WAITING FOR THEIR REACTION.
UM, BUT THAT SHOULD BE ON THAT AGENDA.
THE FEBRUARY 21ST, YOU SAID, RIGHT? FEBRUARY 21ST, YES.
UH, I AM JUST FINDING OUT THAT THE MARCH 6TH ATTENDANCE IS GOING TO BE LOW.
WE, WE MAY NOT HAVE THAT MEETING, BUT IF WE DO FOR SOME REASON HAVE THAT MEETING, IT WOULD BE THE RESIDENTS AT PROVINCETOWN CENTER.
THE IMPORTANT THING HERE, AND THIS CAN MOVE TO A LATER MEETING THAT'S NOT CRITICAL, UM, IS REIFICATION.
OVER THE LAST YEAR, I WOULD SAY CHERYL, MOSTLY ALL OF US SOMEWHAT HAVE BEEN WORKING ON RE REIFICATION.
WE'VE TAKEN OUR, WE'VE HAD GENERAL CODE GO THROUGH OUR ORDINANCE, UPDATE IT, CHECK ALL THE REFERENCES, CHECK ALL THE CROSS REFERENCES TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE MEETING THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF, OF CURRENT LAW, ALL THAT STUFF.
SO WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IS A REIFICATION OF THE ENTIRE ORDINANCE.
THE ONLY PART YOU'RE CONCERNED WITH IS ZONING AND SUBDIVISION LAND DEVELOPMENT.
BUT YOU'LL SEE THE WHOLE ORDINANCE.
IT'S GOING TO, WE'LL ALSO HAVE A SHEET THAT HAS WHAT WE'VE CHANGED IN THERE.
AND A LOT OF IT DOES NOT PERTAIN TO WHAT WE, WHAT WE'RE INVOLVED WITH.
AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THERE IS IN ZONING.
IT RELEASE A CLARIFICATION OF A FEW THINGS IN TERMS OF, I THINK DEFINITIONS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, SO THAT'S THE IMPORTANT THING THAT WHEN YOU SEE REIFICATION COME UP, THE ONLY THING THAT'S CHANGING ARE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM GENERAL CODE TO BRING US UP TO A CURRENT DOCUMENT THAT'S GOING TO INCLUDE THE ZONING MAP, THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SUBDIVISION, LAND DEVELOPMENT, ANIMALS, NOISE.
ALL OF THAT STUFF IS JUST BEING BROUGHT UP TO, TO WHAT THEY THINK IS, IS CURRENT THEORY AND CURRENT LAW.
NOW WE WE'RE MOVING ZONING AND WE'RE MOVING SUBDIVISION FROM 1 54 AND 180 2 TO 300, 600 I THINK BECAUSE WE NEED MORE ROOM.
'CAUSE WE'RE CONSTANTLY CHANGING THINGS.
BUT THAT'S, OTHER THAN THAT, THE CODE IS GENERALLY SAYING THE SAME.
IT'S JUST THERE ARE CERTAIN UPDATED.
AND WHEN WE DISTRIBUTE THAT TO YOU, IT'LL BE THE SAME PROCESS THAT WILL BE, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSION AND A RECOMMENDATION OF YOU FOR THE ZONING MAP AND THE ZONING AND THE, AND THE SUBDIVISION LAND DEVELOPMENT THAT GOES ALONG WITH WHEN THE BOARD WOULD RE CODIFY OR READOPT THEIR OWN CODE.
JEFF, QUICK QUESTION, UH, FOR MY OWN PERSONAL, BUT I THINK MAYBE FOR THE PUBLIC TOO, DOES THE TOWNSHIP CURRENTLY HAVE LIKE A MASTER SPREADSHEET THAT SHOWS ALL THE DATES WHEN ORDINANCES
[01:00:01]
WERE LAST SIGNED AND THAT MADE AVAILABLE IN A SPREADSHEET INSTEAD OF HAVING TO EACH ORDINANCE Y UH, THE BACK OF THE CODIFICATION DOES, DOES IT? OKAY.AND YOU'RE SAYING THE DATE OF ADOPTION OF EACH ORDINANCE? YES.
THE BACK, THE, THE, THERE'S A TO THE CODIFIED BOOK.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT EXISTS ON THE ONLINE VERSION MAYBE, BUT THE BOOK DOES.
AND WE HAVE, I MEAN, ANY SORT OF ORDINANCE CHANGE, WE HAVE THE RESOLUTION, WE HAVE THE ORDINANCE NUMBER.
UM, IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR, WE CAN DO A SEARCH AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
WE HAVE A PRETTY EXTENSIVE FILE.
WELL, FOR ME PERSONALLY, I WAS JUST THINKING FROM A PLANNING COMMISSION INSTEAD OF POSSIBLY IN THE FUTURE HAVING A SITUATION WHERE A CHANGE TO ORDINANCE IS BROUGHT UP.
AS THE PUBLIC MENTIONED, IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS KIND OF A SHORT TIME SPAN.
BUT, AND MAYBE THIS IS, UH, SOMEWHAT UNFORTUNATE, WE'RE DRIVEN BY WHAT SORT OF HOT BUTTON ISSUE COMES IN FRONT OF US NEXT.
AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE PBO TO NOT ALLOW THE LEWIS ROAD TOWN HOMES THAT WENT IN THERE, BECAUSE IT WASN'T THE VISION THAT WE HAD FOR IT, IT'S GONNA BE A FINE DEVELOPMENT.
I DON'T HAVE A REAL ISSUE WITH THE DEVELOPMENT, JUST, I'M USING THAT AS AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT'S ALWAYS THE PROCESS ALREADY.
IF I HAD GONE THROUGH THREE YEARS AGO AND SAID, OH, I DON'T WANT TOWNHOUSES IN PBO, WE, WE COULD CHANGE THAT.
BUT THAT'S NOTHING WITH BEING DEVELOPED IN PB, IT'S THE FIRST TIME WE'VE EVER USED PBO IN THE 20 YEARS I'VE BEEN IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
THERE'S OTHER PORTIONS OF THE, OF THE ORDINANCE THAT ARE LIKE THAT TOO, THAT, LIKE COMM SAID, THEY'RE GONNA COME UP AND INVITE US AT SOME POINT.
AND PART OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WE WILL BE DISCUSSING THAT OF WHAT ORDINANCES NEED TO BE UPDATED.
AND WE'VE WORKED ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN A FEW TIMES.
AND, AND I WOULD LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE ON FEBRUARY 21ST, WE CAN GO THROUGH AND AND REVISIT THOSE FIVE OR SIX AREAS THAT WE WENT THROUGH OF DISCUSSION OF POTENTIAL, HOW IT WOULD BE DEVELOPED, HOW IT WOULD BE REDEVELOPED LIKE QUEST, LIKE THE, THE, UM, WE CAN GO THROUGH THOSE AGAIN AND MAYBE HAVE SOME MORE DISCUSSIONS.
BRING JERRY UP TO SPEED ON IT AND, AND, AND DO THAT.
BECAUSE HOPEFULLY HALF THE ROAD IS A RELATIVELY SHORT DISCUSSION.
IT'S ONLY A MINOR SUBDIVISION.
SO MAYBE WE CAN SPEND SOME TIME DOING THAT.
IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, WE CAN RUN THROUGH THAT.
I WOULD ALSO ADD, LIKE, I KNOW THIS IS FROM EXPERIENCE.
THE ZONING ORDINANCE IS THIS BIG, THEN THE REST OF THE ORDINANCE ARE THIS BIG.
YOU CAN LOOK AT THOSE PAGES FOR DAYS AND DAYS AND DAYS AND NOT SEE SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHANGE.
IT TAKES THE CONTEXT OF AN APPLICATION APPLICATION COMING IN TO MAKE YOU REALIZE, HEY, THIS ISN'T WORKING ANYMORE.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT IS AN EXCUSE TO NOT EVER CHANGE THE ORDINANCE AND BE FORWARD LOOKING, BUT YOU'RE NOT ALWAYS GOING TO GOING TO GET EVERYTHING.
AND WHEN, WHEN THE, WHEN BIG PROJECTS WERE BEING DEVELOPED IN THE TOWNSHIP, THE STEEP SLOPE COULD ALMOST ALWAYS BE WORKED AROUND.
SO NOW IT'S, IT IS A GROWING PAIN, I GUESS.
I MEAN, WE DO WISH WE THOUGHT OF IT SOONER, BUT IF THAT'S JUST THE REALITY OF THE PROCESS, THAT WAS JUST MY RECOMMENDATION IS THAT ONE WAY TO LOOK AT IS TIME-BASED.
OH, SOMETHING HASN'T BEEN UPDATED IN 12 YEARS.
UM, THE OTHER THING THAT WE HAVE COMING UP IS THE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING ON MARCH 20TH.
UM, I'M GONNA MAKE ANOTHER PUBLIC PLEA THAT IF YOU ARE IN AN HOA PRESIDENT OF HOA, NO PRESIDENT OF HOA, PLEASE REACH OUT ON OUR WEBSITE AND WE HAVE A LINK THERE.
WE'RE TRYING TO FIND UPDATED INFORMATION FOR HOAS SO THAT WE CAN, IT'S ANOTHER POINT OF CONTACT FOR THE EAC, SO WE CAN EDUCATE THEM AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE ANOTHER LAYER OF DISCUSSION.
WE'RE HOPING TO, AT OUR MAIN MEETING, WHICH I DON'T HAVE THE DATE, HAVE HOAS TO THE EAC MEETING TO HAVE SOME DISCUSSION AND TO SORT OF FIND OUT WHERE HOAS ARE, FIND OUT WHAT THEY WANT, AND FIND OUT IF THERE'S A WAY THAT DEAC CAN HELP THEM LESSEN THE AMOUNT OF GRASS THEY HAVE TO CUT IN BASINS AND, YOU KNOW, UH, REFOREST AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
IF THERE'S ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO MOVE THAT ALONG FROM A TOWNSHIP'S PERSPECTIVE.
AND I REALIZE PROBABLY MOST OF THE PEOPLE HERE DON'T LIVE IN AN HOA, BUT, BUT I, I AM NOT ALWAYS PREACHING TO THE CHOIR.
SO, JEFF, I GOT TWO MORE THINGS FOR YOU BEFORE YEAH.
ONE IS, UH, UH, WE WERE TALKING BEFORE THE MEETING, JUST BRIEFLY, AJ AND I AND WHAT DR. RYAN ON LEWIS ROAD? YEP.
I KNOW WE MET HIM YEARS AGO AND THEN HE GOT THE DELAYED FOR WHATEVER REASON.
NONE OF MY, I DON'T CARE, BUT I NOTICED HE TORE THE PLACE DOWN.
I THOUGHT HE WAS GONNA REMODEL THAT.
NO, THAT PLAN WAS ALWAYS TOO, I WAS ALWAYS, ALWAYS DOWN.
SO THAT WAS THE PLAN, THAT PARADIGM KEEP THE GARAGE IN THE BACK.
HE TOOK EVERY TREE OUTTA THERE.
UM, AND THEN SECONDLY, JUST FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, UH, I'D LIKE TO PUT IT ON THE RECORD THAT, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO DO AS, BECAUSE
[01:05:01]
WE'RE, WE'RE TOWNSHIP PEOPLE TO ALL OF US.LIKE WE SAID, WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF KEEPING OUR EMOTIONS UNDER CONTROL WHEN WE HAVE THESE HOT BUTTON TOPICS.
I MEAN, I KNOW IT'S EMOTIONAL, I KNOW IT'S NOT FUN.
UH, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T BE PICKING AT EACH OTHER.
THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO SENSE IN THAT AT ALL.
SO MOVING FORWARD, LET'S TRY TO, AND I KNOW IT'S, IT'S TOUGH, YOU KNOW.
I KNOW, BUT LET'S TRY TO KEEP IT NON-PERSONAL, BELIEVE ME.
AND IN THAT MEANTIME, I ALSO, WHEN, YOU KNOW, WITH EVERYBODY HERE, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR KIND WORDS AT THE START OF THE LAST MEETING THAT I I WASN'T HERE FOR, UH, REGARDING, YOU KNOW, MY PRESENTATION ON THE PARKHOUSE MATTER.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, ALTHOUGH, ALTHOUGH HE CUT ME OFF, I WAS GOING TO TELL YOU ANYWAY, UM, I DID ADVISE THE SUPERVISORS THAT I WAS STEPPING BACK FROM, UH, HANDLING THAT.
UM, I DON'T HAVE A LEGAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN ANY WAY.
UM, BUT I FELT THAT THE REPEATED STATEMENTS ABOUT LACK OF TRUST IN ME WERE CREATING A SIDESHOW.
AND I THOUGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, IF THE HEARING WILL BE IMPORTANT, AND I DON'T WANT THERE TO BE ANY KIND OF EXTRA CIRCUS ELEMENT THAT WOULD CREATE A SEPARATE ISSUE.
UM, AND I AM RETIRING NEXT YEAR AND THIS WILL PROBABLY GET TIED UP IN THE APPEALS COURTS.
SO ONE PERSON SHOULD SEE IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH ANYWAY.
I, I MADE THE DECISION TO STEP BACK.
UM, BUT THAT WAS VOLUNTARILY AND IT WASN'T A, YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T A RECUSAL, WHICH A LITTLE BIT OF SEMANTICS THERE, BUT I DID WANT TO LET EVERYBODY KNOW I HAD NO CONFLICT.
AND I, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT AND, AND, UH, WE APPRECIATE IT.
AND, AND TRUST ME FOLKS, IF YOU CAN TRUST ME, YOU KNOW, I'LL TALK TO YOU PERSONALLY ABOUT HERE'S NOBODY GETTING RICH ON THIS DEAL.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING.
YOU KNOW, WE ARE TRYING TO LOOK AT, WE TRY TO STAY OBJECTIVE.
WE TRY TO LOOK AT DOING THE RIGHT THING.
SO PLEASE TRY TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.
NOBODY'S, NOBODY'S GETTING RICH ON THIS STUFF.
YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW THIS EMAIL THAT WENT AROUND THIS MORNING OR THIS, UH, UH, TEXTS OR FACEBOOK POST, IT WAS JUST ON CALL FOR.
THAT'S, YOU KNOW, JEFF WORKS HARD FOR THIS COMMUNITY AND WE, WE, WE SHOULD KNOW THAT WE APPRECIATE HAVING HIM HERE.
SO TELL YOUR FRIENDS THE NEXT MEETING.
'CAUSE IT'S GONNA BE, IT'S GONNA BE A LONG COUPLE YEARS.
LET'S TRY TO KEEP IT, YOU KNOW, ON, ON POINT AND NO PERSONAL ATTACKS.
YOU KNOW, WE JUST DON'T NEED THAT.
IT, IT DOESN'T ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING.
SO, I'M SORRY I GET OFF MY SOAPBOX.
DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE ADJOURN? TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.