[00:00:01]
THAT.YOU READY, JEFF? WHENEVER YOU ARE.
[CALL TO ORDER]
I'M GONNA CALL THE ORDER, UM, THE, WHAT IS THIS? JANUARY 17TH, UH, 2024.UH, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FOR UPPER PROVINCE TOWNSHIP.
UH, WE'LL CALL THE ORDER AND, UH, WE'LL START WITH, UH, UH, PUBLIC.
[PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AGENDA ITEMS]
LET'S START WITH PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS, PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS. WE DON'T HAVE A SOLICIT THERE.UM, BECAUSE ONE THING DID PULL OFF THE AGENDA, THE RESIDENTS FOR PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER, SINCE THEY PULLED OFF THE AGENDA, THERE REALLY IS NO LEGAL QUESTION.
NOTHING, CAN'T WE HAVE NO SOLICITOR TONIGHT, BUT, UH, PUT OFF.
SO IS THERE ANY COMMENTS ON ANYTHING THAT'S NOT ON THE ATTACHED AGENDA? NOT HEARING ANY, I, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A, A COMMENT THOUGH.
UH, LAST NIGHT WAS A VERY GOOD MEETING, UH, ABOUT IT IS ABOUT PARKHOUSE AND I JUST WANNA SAY PUBLICLY THAT I THOUGHT JOE RESIDENT TOOK A LOT OF HEAT.
I THOUGHT HE DID A REALLY GOOD JOB OF KEEPING HIS COOL, EXPLAINING THE SITUATION.
I THINK, BOB, YOU AGREE WITH ME? HE DID EXPLAINED IT VERY WELL.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO AGREE WITH IT, BUT I THOUGHT HE EXPLAINED IT VERY WELL.
AND, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, THE VOTE WAS TAKEN AND IT WAS DECIDED.
SO, UH, AT THIS POINT, IT'S NOT COMING TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
UM, AND, UH, WE'LL SEE WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE, BUT I, I JUST WANNA COMMEND AND YOU, JEFF, 'CAUSE BOTH OF YOU GUYS TOOK SOME HEAT FOR TRYING TO DO, I THINK WHAT YOU WERE CHARGED TO DO.
I THINK YOU WEREN'T CHARGED TO DO THAT.
AND, UH, I THINK PEOPLE FORGOT THAT, THAT YOU WERE ASKED TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING BETTER THAN THAT 1203 THING AND YOU GUYS DID.
UM, SO I COMMEND BOTH OF YOU GUYS FOR TAKING THE HEAT, UM, AND, UH, BEING VERY PROFESSIONAL, IT WAS A, IT WAS VERY, VERY, UH, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A NICE, NICE DEAL.
SO, AND, AND JUST AS A LITTLE BIT OF A REMINDER, THIS PLANNING COMMISSION'S ALREADY WEIGHED IN ON THE CONDITIONAL USE ISSUE.
I NEED TO LOOK BACK TO MAKE SURE EXACTLY WHAT THE WORDING WAS, BUT I'M FAIRLY SURE THERE WERE RECOMMENDATIONS MADE.
I'M NOT GOING TO COMMIT TO WHAT THEY WERE AT THIS POINT.
I'M GONNA PUT THAT IN A MEMO TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS SO THEY HAVE THAT, RIGHT.
SO THAT, THAT ISSUE DOESN'T NEED TO COME BACK TO US.
WE'VE ALREADY UNDER 1203, UNDER ON THE 1203, WE'VE ALREADY GONE THROUGH THAT ISSUE, RIGHT.
UM, WE VOTED DOWN TO 1203, RIGHT? SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
THERE WERE TWO ISSUES, TENTATIVE, I'M PARAPHRASING AND I HAVE TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT THE VOTE WAS, AND I JUST WANT TO FORMALIZE THAT.
SO THAT'S JUST SOMETHING I HAVE TO DO OVER THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS JUST TO, FOR THE BOARD.
SO WE WON'T BE SEEING THAT PORTION OF IT ANYTIME SOON.
SO WE DON'T NEED TO, MY REASON TO MAKE THE COMMENTS WAS TO LET THE OTHER CANADIAN COMMISSION PEOPLE KNOW, AND OUR NEW MEMBER THAT WE WILL NOT BE SEEING THAT FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.
WE PROBABLY WILL SOMETIME DOWN THE LINE.
UH, BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT GONNA SEE ANYTHING FROM PARKHOUSE.
SO OUR JOB IS PRETTY MUCH, YOU KNOW, DONE RIGHT NOW FOR PARKHOUSE.
UM, IT'S REALLY GONNA GO TO THIS NEXT, UH, UH, CONDITIONAL USE HEARING IS, I THINK THE NEXT STEP.
SO ANYHOW, UH, BUT GREAT JOB BY JOE AND JEFF IN TRYING TO, UH, COME UP WITH A COMPROMISE AND, UH, UH, THANK YOU GUYS FOR THAT.
SO, UH, WHAT'S NEXT ON THE AGENDA? UH, ARE WE HAVE TO PROVE THE AGENDA? WE HAVE TO PROVE THE AGENDA.
NO, WE'RE FINE WITH THAT PUBLIC COMMENT.
WE'VE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY, UM, AGAIN, THE RESIDENTS OF PROVINCETOWN CENTER REVISED FINAL, THEY FELT THAT THEY WEREN'T FAR ENOUGH ALONG WITH ENGINEERING COMMENTS, SO THEY ASKED TO PULL OFF FOR, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE, THE FEBRUARY 7TH AGENDA, WHICH IS THE NEXT MEETING.
I I'M NOT GONNA MAKE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT HOW FAR ALONG THEY'RE, WHAT THEY'RE DOING, SO, OKAY.
BUT RIGHT NOW THEY'RE NOT HERE TONIGHT.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
WHAT DO WE HAVE TONIGHT? WE HAVE, UM, WE HAVE, UM, THE QUEST BUILDING, WHICH IS A BUILDING HERE AT THE CORNER OF 29 BLACKROCK ROAD.THAT BUILDING IS, IS CURRENTLY VACANTS.
THEY, UM, QUEST HAS MOVED TO A FULLY AT HOME MODEL, AND THAT BUILDING WENT ON THE MARKET ABOUT TWO TO THREE MONTHS AGO.
UM, HIGH TOP DEVELOPMENT THAT I MENTIONED HERE ON THE, ON THE, ON THE AGENDA IS THE CURRENT EQUITABLE OWNER OF IT.
THEY, I GUESS THEY HAVE IT UNDER AGREEMENT.
ALLISON CAN EXPLAIN THIS A LOT BETTER THAN I CAN.
THEY HAVE IT UNDER AGREEMENT AND THEY'RE EXPLORING IDEAS.
WE'VE, AS STAFF HAD A COUPLE MEETINGS WITH THEM.
UM, THEY HAVE SOME IDEAS, AND I'LL LET THEM EXPLAIN THEIR RATIONALE AND WHAT THEY WANNA PUT UP THERE.
UM, WE'VE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS.
THEY'VE CHANGED THE PLANS ONCE AND, AND SORT OF LOOKED AT SOME THINGS.
WE DECIDED TO BRING YOU TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION EARLY BECAUSE IT IS SO EARLY IN THE PROCESS THAT WE WANTED TO GET YOUR FEELING FOR WHAT YOU SORT OF THOUGHT AND WHAT YOUR INITIAL IDEAS WERE, YOU KNOW, HOW YOU FELT ABOUT WHAT, 'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY I'LL, YOU KNOW, I'LL BURY THE LEAD.
IT'S, IT IS A DIFFERENT USE NOW.
BUT THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO GET YOUR SENSE OF IT AND FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.
SO WE'RE NOT GONNA SEE A PLAN OR ANYTHING.
OH, YOU DO HAVE A PLAN? WE HAVE A PLAN.
I'M GONNA STOP TALKING AND I'M GONNA LET ALLISON, WELL, ALLISON, UM, SHE WAS HERE LAST NIGHT TOO.
ALLISON HAD TO SEE THROUGH THE WHOLE PARKHOUSE THING,
[00:05:01]
AND I HOPE YOU THAT'S RIGHT.I HOPE YOU, UH, FOUND IT INTERESTING.
IT REMINDED ME OF THE HISTORY.
UM, YOU KNOW, JOE, GOING BACK TO THE BEGINNING, I FORGOT ABOUT THE, THE, THE NARSTOWN MOVIE.
AND THEN I THOUGHT, OH YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.
I DIDN'T KNOW ALL THAT EITHER.
UM, SO TONIGHT WE'RE HERE ABOUT A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PROPERTY AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TYPE OF USE.
UM, I'M WITH, UH, DAVE LANCE GERNER, WHO'S THE CEO OF HIGH TOP DEVELOPMENT.
AND HERB SCHULTZ IS, UM, THE ARCHITECT AND PLANNER.
UH, THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT IN PHILADELPHIA.
THEY'VE ALSO DONE SOME DEVELOPMENT IN THE SUBURBS.
AND AS JEFF MENTIONED, THE QUEST BUILDING QUEST DECIDED THAT THEY WERE GOING FULLY REMOTE.
UM, THEY DECIDED TO PUT THIS PROPERTY ON THE MARKET A FEW MONTHS AGO.
I WILL SAY I GOT A LOT OF PHONE CALLS FROM DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS PROPERTY, PRIMARILY, INTERESTINGLY FOR MULTIFAMILY.
BUT WHAT WE'RE HERE TONIGHT, UM, TO TALK ABOUT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MULTIFAMILY.
BUT MOST OF THE PHONE CALLS THAT I RECEIVED OF PEOPLE LOOKING AT THE PROPERTY, WE'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM MULTIFAMILY.
THIS PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY ZONED I IO DISTRICT IN THE TOWNSHIP, UH, WHICH MADE SENSE FOR THE USE THAT WAS THERE.
AND I THINK JEFF KNOWS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THE HISTORY.
BUT I BELIEVE INITIALLY THIS WAS ALL PART OF G THE GSK LAND HOLDING.
SO THE IO DISTRICT SENDS ACROSS SOUTH COLLEGEVILLE ROAD, YOU KNOW, TO THAT SIDE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ZONING MAP, THIS IS THE ONLY PIECE ON THIS SIDE THAT WAS ACTUALLY ZONED IO DISTRICT.
IT HAD THE QUEST BUILDING ON IT, PARKING, AS YOU KNOW, THE ACCESSES SIGNALED, UM, FROM 29.
AND, UM, IT WAS OBVIOUSLY USED THAT WAY FOR MANY YEARS.
THE IO DISTRICT IS VERY RESTRICTIVE, THOUGH.
IT IS A TRUE, LIKE OFFICE PARK, CAMPUS DISTRICT THAT YOU WOULD ESSENTIALLY SEE FROM LIKE THE NINETIES WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN HAVE A CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, YOU CAN HAVE AN OFFICE, AND YOU CAN HAVE A LAB.
THOSE ARE ESSENTIALLY THE PRIMARY USES THAT ARE PERMITTED IN THAT DISTRICT.
UM, AND THEN IT DOES CURRENTLY ALLOW BY CONDITIONAL USE, WHAT I'LL CALL LIKE ACCESSORY.
THEY WERE ENVISIONED TO BE ACCESSORY USES TO THE OFFICE, RETAIL, PERSONAL SERVICE, THAT KIND OF THING, BUT NOT AS A PRIMARY USE ON THE PROPERTY.
UM, SO HIGH TOP WITH THIS UNDER AGREEMENT.
UM, AND THEY WERE LOOKING AT VARIOUS OPTIONS FOR THE SITE.
AND, UM, HERBA WILL WALK YOU THROUGH, WE DO HAVE A SERIES OF PLANS AND THINGS TO WALK YOU THROUGH, BUT ESSENTIALLY THEY WOULD BE LOOKING TO DO SOME COMBINATION OF RETAIL AND RESTAURANT COMMERCIAL USES ON THE SITE.
UM, AND THEN YOU'LL SEE ON THIS PLAN AS PROPOSED THE BACK OF THE SITE, THERE IS SOME, UM, SOME TOWNHOUSE THAT'S PROPOSED JUST AS SORT OF A TRANSITION AS, SO I THINK EVERYONE KNOWS, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS RIGHT NEXT TO THE TOWNSHIP BUILDING AND, YOU KNOW, OPEN SPACE.
SO TRYING TO CREATE SORT OF A MIXED USE COMMUNITY AND A BUFFER BETWEEN IT.
IN OUR, IN OUR INFORMAL, YOU KNOW, OUR CONVERSATIONS WITH STAFF, UM, WE WERE TRYING TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT DISTRICTS IN THE TOWNSHIP TO SEE, UM, IF THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT WOULD ALREADY WORK THAT WAS IN EXISTENCE TODAY.
UM, YOU DO HAVE A COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER DISTRICT.
OBVIOUSLY THAT DOESN'T ALLOW RESIDENTIAL, BUT, UM, THAT DOES ENVISION COMMUNITY SHOPPING CENTER.
REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER, I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT NO ONE WOULD PROBABLY BILL TODAY.
THAT'S LIKE YOUR, YOU KNOW, BIG BOX CENTER SO TO SPEAK.
BUT COMMUNITY SHOPPING CENTER IS ESSENTIALLY, UH, WHAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S PROPOSED ON THE FRONT OF THE SITE AND, UH, FOR THE MOST PART, UM, THAT THAT COULD WORK HERE AND WORK FOR WHAT WE'RE SHOWING.
AND HERB WILL WALK YOU THROUGH THAT.
UM, THERE'S ONE OTHER PLACE IN THE TOWNSHIP TODAY THAT'S ZONED COMMUNITY, UM, AND REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER.
IT'S NOT AS THOUGH IT'S A, A DISTRICT THAT'S IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT PLACES.
UM, SO I MEAN, THAT JUST GIVES YOU A LITTLE BIT OF AN OVERVIEW.
THE SITE ITSELF, I'LL JUST MENTION, IS ABOUT 27 ACRES.
UM, AND OF COURSE THE, YOU'LL HEAR MORE ABOUT THIS, BUT, UM, THEY HAVE GOTTEN INTEREST FROM, YOU KNOW, GROCERS, RETAIL, ET CETERA.
I MEAN, THERE IS PROXIMITY TO 4 22, SO IT DOES HAVE, UM, THAT, THAT, THAT IS ATTRACTIVE TO, UM, POTENTIAL TENANTS THEY'VE BEEN TALKING TO.
SO, HERB, IT PROBABLY MAKES SENSE TO HAVE YOU SORT OF SET EVERYTHING UP, WALK THROUGH IT.
CAN, THERE'S ONE QUESTION BEFORE YOU, YOU SURE DO THAT OR HE CAN COME UP AND ASK YOU.
WHERE'S THAT ON THE PROPERTY? OH, YES.
SO THAT IS, AND THAT IS ON OUR PLAN.
ANYTIME I WANNA DONATE THAT TO TOWNSHIP, THAT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
OH, HERE WE HAVE A POINTER HERE.
WE DO HAVE A POINTER THAT WORKS.
SO YOU'RE PLAN, WELL, I DON'T WANT TO GO AHEAD OF YOUR PLAN, BUT I'D BE INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU PLAN ON DOING WITH THAT.
SO YEAH, JUST TO FAMILIAR, UH, HERB SCHULTZ.
[00:10:02]
SO JUST TO FAMILIARIZE, UM, SO ON THE PLAN, SOUTH SIDE IS BLACKROCK ROAD 29 TO YOUR RIGHT.UH, THIS IS AN EXISTING, UH, SIGNALED, UH, CURB CUT.
UM, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT CURB CUT THERE, UH, IS, IS REALLY GOOD INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THIS SITE.
AND, UM, YOU'LL SEE AS WE GO THROUGH THE PLANS, WE REALLY TRIED TO REUTILIZE AS MUCH OF THE SITE CIRCULATION AND THE EXISTING CONDITIONS AS POSSIBLE.
UM, SO COMING IN, THIS IS THE, THE SIGNALED ENTRANCE.
WE'RE PROPOSING A SERIES OF SMALLER PADS, UH, SORT OF AWAY FROM THE, THE MAIN CORNER.
UH, A LARGE, UH, A LARGE RETAIL BUILDING THAT HAS, YOU KNOW, PRO PROBABLY, UH, A GREEN GROCER, UM, YOU KNOW, SORT OF A, A GROCERY STORE ON THIS QUARTER HERE.
UM, REUTILIZING MUCH OF THE PARKING AREA AND A LOT OF THE SITE CIRCULATION.
AS I SAID, THIS BUILDING HERE, UH, ON OUR FIRST PASS WAS A SMALLER, UM, RETAIL BUILDING THAT, YOU KNOW, ON OUR FIRST MEETING WE SORT OF, UH, GOT THE VIBE THAT WE REALLY WANTED TO HAVE SOMETHING ESTABLISHED ON THAT CORNER.
UH, SO WE WENT BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND RE REDESIGNED THIS BUILDING TO BE MORE OF LIKE A, A CENTERPIECE, SOMETHING THAT YOU SEE AS YOU COME UP TO THE, TO THE, UH, TO THE INTERSECTION.
UM, AS ALLISON HAD SAID, THERE IS A SERIES OF TOWNHOUSES ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE BUILDING.
UM, THERE'S ACTUALLY AN EXISTING STREAM, UH, THAT KIND OF RUNS THROUGH BETWEEN THESE TWO BUILDINGS.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A TOPOGRAPHICAL SHIFT.
SO ON THAT BACKSIDE IT COMES UP PRETTY HIGH.
UM, AND SO WE KIND OF FELT LIKE THAT WAS A REALLY GOOD STOPPING POINT TO BECOME A BUFFER AND STEP DOWN THE USE.
SO, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA HERE IS THAT WE HAVE A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT, UM, AND, AND PUTTING THE SORT OF LOWER IMPACT RESIDENTIAL USE CLOSER TO THE PARK, CLOSER TO THE MUNICIPAL SERVICES BUILDING HERE, UM, WE FELT WAS A GOOD TRANSITION AWAY FROM THE SORT OF HEAVIER RETAIL USE THAT WE HAVE AT THE CORNER.
UM, AS FAR AS SOME OF THE MAIN, YOU KNOW, LIKE, UH, PARKING COMPONENTS AND THINGS, I THINK RIGHT NOW WE'RE MEETING THE, THE IO, UH, REQUIREMENTS.
THE TOWNHOUSES MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR RESIDENTIAL.
SO IF, CAN WE FLICK THROUGH OH YEAH.
WHICH YOU WANT THE NEXT PAGE? YEAH.
SO IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE A LITTLE BIT.
SO THIS IS THE SITE PLAN WITH THE EXISTING CONDITIONS OVERLAID.
UM, SO IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO TELL.
IT'S A LITTLE LIGHTER THAN NORMAL.
BUT, UM, BASICALLY YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THE, UH, THE PERVIOUS, OR SORRY, THE IMPERVIOUS THAT'S ON SITE NOW IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO REUTILIZE, WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP AS MUCH, UM, UH, PERVIOUS IS POSSIBLE AND TRY TO REUTILIZE AS MUCH OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE AS POSSIBLE SO THAT THAT WHITE L IS KIND OF THE EXISTING BUILDING.
SO THAT WOULD GO AWAY AND THAT WOULD BE REGRADED AND BECOME PARKING.
UH, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE AND DO YOU WANNA JUST TOUCH ON BEFORE YOU GO INTO THAT? SURE.
JUST THE, UM, TOM ASKED ABOUT THE EXISTING HOUSE.
SO THE EXISTING HOUSE IS KIND OF, UH, HERE, THERE, SO THERE'S A SMALL CURB CUT OFF OF BLACKROCK.
UM, AND RIGHT NOW THE, THE, THE BUILDING IS FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, YOU KNOW, IT'S IN DISREPAIR.
IT'S, I THINK IT'S BEEN BOARDED UP AND KIND OF JUST KEPT, UH, KEPT THERE.
WE PLAN ON KEEPING IT, UM, AND, AND RENOVATING IT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE A, A USE IN MIND AS OF YET, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, THE PLAN IS TO TRY TO MAINTAIN IT AND BRING IT BACK TO SOME.
I WOULD, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'D LIKE TO SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, STAY, IT'S A SO WOULD WE SOME SORT OF HISTORICAL, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE HISTORY OF IT IS.
I'M SURE WE CAN PROBABLY FIND OUT SOMEWHERE.
I, IT'S, UM, WE ACTUALLY LOOKED IT UP.
IT'S, UM, S SINKER FARM HUNTS SINKER FARM, YEAH.
WAS THE OLD PROPERTY OWNER OF THE WHOLE PROPERTY.
AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY THEIR FARM HOUSE, AND THAT WAS HIS HOUSE.
SO IT'S GOT SOME, IT'S REALLY COOL.
IT'S GOT SOME TOWNSHIP HISTORY.
UM, AND, AND ACTUALLY WE'RE, WE'RE SORT OF REUTILIZING THE EXISTING CURB CUT ON BLACKROCK HERE, UH, FOR INGRESS AND EGRESS FOR THESE TOWNS.
SO NOT PROPOSING ANY NEW, UH, CURB CUTS.
I'M JUST TRYING TO ZOOM IN, BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY WORKING, YOU KNOW, FOR ME.
SO
SO THIS IS JUST, UH, THESE ARE TWO, UH, MAIN OVERVIEW, UH, SHOTS JUST KIND OF SHOWING.
WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP AS MUCH, WE'RE ACTUALLY ADDING A LOT MORE SITE TREES IN, IN SORT OF IN, IN AROUND THE CIRCULATION PATH, THE CORNER.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE SORT OF SEE THAT AS A RETAIL BUILDING WITH, UH, POTENTIALLY A RESTAURANT AT THAT CORNER LOCATION, UH, YOU KNOW, A POPPED UP, UH, YOU KNOW, ROOF, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST A SORT OF A, A NICE VISUAL BEACON, UH, TO THE ENTRANCE TO THE SITE.
UM, AND THEN IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
[00:15:04]
MM-HMM.SO ON THIS SIDE, THIS, SO THIS IS, IF YOU GO INTO THE EXISTING, UH, SIGNALIZE CURB CUT, TAKE A RIGHT.
UM, WE'RE PROPOSING A SERIES OF PADS HERE.
YOU KNOW, WE FORESEE THERE BEING, UM, UH, A BANK, UH, AND THEN A COUPLE OF RESTAURANTS, MAYBE LIKE A 3000 TO A 5,000 SQUARE FOOT, UH, UH, RESTAURANT WITH DRIVE-THRU OUTDOOR SEATING, TRYING TO ACTIVATE THIS AREA AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, UH, AND NOT JUST HAVE IT BE STANDALONE.
WE KIND OF SEE THIS AS A, A WALKABLE, UH, DEVELOPMENT, ESPECIALLY WITH THE, UH, THE RESIDENTIAL THAT WE'RE PROPOSING ON THE BACKSIDE.
UH, SO, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA IS THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE SOME WALKING PATHS AND, AND HOPE THAT THESE ARE, UH, THESE ARE ALL ACTIVATED SPACES.
AND, UH, DURING ONE OF OUR MEETINGS, I LET THEM KNOW THAT, THAT THERE WAS A PRETTY ACTIVE WALKING COMMUNITY FROM THE TWINS.
YOU REMEMBER THE CURRY DEVELOPMENT AND THE TROUTMAN DEVELOPMENT OVER THERE? YEP.
THAT'S A VERY CONNECTED SITE IN TERMS OF TRAILS THROUGHOUT.
AND, AND I OBVIOUSLY, THEY, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT SORT OF ANECDOTAL INFORMATION WHEN THEY COME IN.
I LET THEM KNOW THAT, AND THAT'S WHY WE SORT OF PUSH FOR THAT TYPE ON THE CORNER AND THAT SORT OF WALKABILITY IN THE FRONT OF IT, BECAUSE I THINK YOU'LL GET A DECENT AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT WALK OVER.
OH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD FOR THEM.
UM, AND, AND TO HAVE SOME DESTINATION POINTS, NOT JUST FOR THE RESTAURANTS, BUT TO HAVE THESE OUTDOOR SEATING GROUPS AND TO HAVE SOME, UH, SOME AREAS TO OF JUST, YOU KNOW, UH, RECREATION AROUND THE SITE IS, IS ANOTHER IDEA.
SO, UM, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
SO YEAH, SO THIS IS JUST THE VIEW OF THE ENTRANCE AND A VIEW OF, UH, OF KIND OF, AGAIN, ACTIVATED SPACE OUT IN FRONT OF THE, THE WHAT WE'RE CONSIDERING TO BE THE RESTAURANT.
UM, AND THEN, UH, AND THEN YEAH, AND THEN ALL THE VIEWS COMING BACK.
IS THERE ONE MORE SLIDE? YEAH, YEAH.
UH, SO THESE WOULD BE THE TOWNHOUSES.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE SEE THESE AS BEING NICE FINISHES.
UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE WE'VE GOT WALKING PATHS GOING AROUND.
THE IDEA BEING THAT WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THIS, UH, A NICE COMMUNITY, UM, THAT CONNECTS AND CONNECTS THE PARK TO, UH, TO THE RETAIL AND ACTS AS SORT OF A STEP DOWN USE AND A STEP DOWN BUFFER.
DO YOU SEE THOSE AS RENTAL OR BOTS? UH, PURCHASE.
PURCHASE MOST LIKELY, RIGHT? YEAH.
UH, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE LAST SLIDE.
WELL, ALLISON, DID YOU SAY THAT'S NOT ZONED FOR THAT RIGHT NOW? DO YOU HAVE TO GET A VARIANCE ON THAT? SO IT IS NOT ZONED FOR RESIDENTIAL.
IT'S NOT ZONED FOR RESIDENTIAL.
I MEAN, REGARDLESS OF, I MEAN, AT THIS POINT RIGHT NOW, IT'S ESSENTIALLY ZONED FOR OFFICE, RIGHT? SO THIS, IF THE TOWNSHIP WAS INTERESTED IN SEEING SOMETHING ELSE OCCUR HERE, WE WOULD BE SEEKING, WE WOULD START THE PROCESS OR REQUEST A REZONING.
LIKE I SAID, WE WERE LOOKING AT THE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER DISTRICT AS A STARTING POINT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE RETAIL, EVERYTHING WE'RE DOING FIT THAT DISTRICT DOESN'T CURRENTLY ALLOW RESIDENTIAL.
SO THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOME SORT OF ADJUSTMENT TO ALLOW THAT.
IF THE TOWNSHIP WERE INTERESTED IN THE TRANSITION PIECE OF RESIDENTIAL IN THE BACK OF THE SITE.
DURING, DURING OUR MEETING, THEY HAD SORT OF THE FIRST DESIGNS SORT OF WORKED OFF OF THE, THE, UM, THE RETAIL COMPONENT OF, OF IO THREE, WHICH IS WHERE WE GET PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER, NOT A BAD OPTION.
UM, I, WE COULD CERTAINLY GO THAT DIRECTION MIGHT FIT A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
THAT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR RESIDENTIAL EITHER.
AS WE TALKED ABOUT IN SOME OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DISCUSSION, SOME OF OUR ORDINANCES ARE JUST ANTIQUATED.
AND I BROUGHT IT UP LAST NIGHT AT THE MEETING.
SOME OF OUR ORDINANCES ARE JUST ANTIQUATED.
THEY WERE DESIGNED FOR DEVELOPMENT AS IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO.
AND CRSC IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF THAT.
THE AREA THAT SHE SAYS THAT IT WAS ZONED FOR IS, IS TO TARGET GIANT STAPLES AND, AND PETSMART UP OFF OF TOWNSHIP BLIND AND RIDGE PIKE FIND DEVELOPMENT VERY SUCCESSFUL.
WELL RANTED, WELL TRAFFICKED, WELL PARKED OFF OF, PROBABLY A LITTLE OVER PARKED, UM, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE CONGESTED AT TIMES.
BUT THAT'S SORT OF THE IDEA OF WHERE WE'RE SORT OF HEADING WITH IT TO TUNE THAT ORDINANCE UP A LITTLE BIT TO FIT SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND SOMEHOW WORK IN TO HAVE A RESIDENTIAL OPTION.
WE DON'T WANT THAT TO BE THE OPTION EVERYWHERE, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE SORT OF WORK OUT WITH THE LANGUAGE ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
UH, WHAT, WHAT THE RESIDENTIAL PART, UH, HOW MANY AND HOW HIGH.
YOU'RE NOT LOOKING TO GO HIGH OR ANYTHING.
ARE YOU? SO WE HAVE CURRENTLY SHOWN 76 SPLIT TOWNS.
THEY'RE NOMINALLY 38 FEET TALL, I THINK IS ABOUT WHERE THEY'RE AT.
SO THESE ARE, TO CLARIFY, THEY, THEY'RE STACK TOWNS THAT ARE SHOWN THEY ARE STACK, YEAH.
DOUBLE DWELLING UNITS, DOUBLE D.
AND IN TERMS OF THE PARKING, SO WHAT JEFF WAS REFERRING TO, I MEAN, RESIDENTIAL IS PARKED FOR RESIDENTIAL STANDARDS AS WE'RE CURRENTLY SHOWING IT.
AND WE'VE HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THERE
[00:20:01]
WOULD BE AVAILABILITY FOR OVERFLOW PARKING, THAT KIND OF THING FROM A SHARED SCENARIO OR INDEPENDENT.UM, BUT, BUT ON THE SHOP, ON THE RETAIL SIDE, UM, WE'RE CURRENTLY SHOWING 5.5 SPACES PER THOUSAND, WHICH IS WHAT THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES TODAY.
BUT THAT IS A LITTLE BIT OVER PARKED FOR, YOU KNOW, MODERN SHOPPING CENTER STANDARDS.
SO IF THE TOWNSHIP WANTED TO SEE THAT REDUCED AND IMPERVIOUS REDUCED A LITTLE BIT, I MEAN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, COMFORTABLE WORKING WITH TO REDUCE THAT.
UM, ANYBODY QUESTIONS ON THE BOARD? ANY QUESTIONS? SO HOW MANY TOWN HOMES IN THE ROAD? UH, IT VARIES.
THERE'S, I THINK THE VERTICAL ONES ARE, ARE NINE, NINE TOWNHOUSES IN A ROW.
AND THEN THE MIDDLE ONES ARE SEVEN TOWNHOUSES IN A ROW, I BELIEVE.
SO THEN, BUT THEN YOU HAVE ANOTHER STACK ON TOP OF THAT? CORRECT.
EACH, SO EACH, EACH TOWN THAT IS, THAT WE'RE SHOWING HERE, EACH, EACH BOX IS TWO DWELLING UNITS.
SO IT'S, YOU, YOU PULL IN, THERE'S A DRIVEWAY, 2, 2 2 GARAGES THAT ARE SEPARATED.
UH, AND THEN LIVING SPACE AND LIVING SPACE.
MY ONLY CONCERN IS, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, FIRE, I MEAN, IF, IF THAT GOES, YOU GOT 27 PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE OUT OF A PLACE TO LIVE.
NOT TO MENTION EVEN WORSE, WHICH I WON'T MENTION, BUT, UM, WHICH IS WHY MANY MUNICIPALITIES, I DON'T KNOW WHAT OURS CALLS FOR OR ORDINANCE WISE, BUT MANY ARE ONLY SIX UNITS IN A ROW.
AND WE WOULD OBVIOUSLY DESIGN THESE TO CURRENT BUILDING CODES.
WE HAVE FIREWALLS IN BETWEEN EACH DWELLING UNIT AND, AND FIRE SEPARATIONS BETWEEN EACH FLOOR.
AND OBVIOUSLY THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HASN'T SEEN THIS YET, SO YEAH, THEY MAYBE HAVEN'T BEEN ANY COMMENTS.
OF COURSE, FIREWALLS ARE GOOD, BUT THEY'RE NOT, NOT EVERYTHING OF COURSE.
UM, IT SHOULD BE NOTED, A LOT OF WHAT YOU'VE DONE HERE IS VERY CREATIVE AND IT'S NICE.
WE'VE ALSO, UH, YOU KNOW, IN ADVANCE OF, WE HAVEN'T MET WITH THE FIRE MARSHAL OR ANYTHING, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SIZED ALL OF OUR STREETS AND TURNING RADIUSES WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT THEY'LL WANT, YOU KNOW, FULL SIZED 24 FEET AT LEAST, UH, FOR INGRESS AND EGRESS FOR, FOR, UH, FOR THE FIRE TRUCK.
SO, AND, UH, OUR CONSULTANTS, YOU GUYS HAVEN'T SEEN THIS YET EITHER, RIGHT? YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING OTHER THAN ONLY TO THIS LEVEL? ONLY AT THIS LEVEL.
I MEAN, WE, WE'VE HAD, AS I SAID, WE HAD TWO MEETINGS IN DECEMBER ONCE RIGHT AFTER THEY GOT THE PROPERTY, AND ONCE AS INITIAL REACTION TO OUR FIRST, OUR FIRST COMMENTARY ON IT.
AND THEN AT THAT SECOND MEETING, WE, WE SORT OF REALIZED, WELL, WE COULD HAVE MEETINGS LIKE THIS EVERY TWO WEEKS AND REFINE THINGS, BUT IT IS BEST AT THIS POINT TO BRING IT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO GET AN OUTSIDE LOOK AT IT.
YOU KNOW, SOME, WE ALL HAVE, YOU KNOW, WE ALL SORT OF SIT ON OUR IVORY TOWER, SO TO SPEAK, AND, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, WE CAN PONTIFICATE, BUT BRING IT TO YOU AND, AND LET YOU LET YOU SEE WHAT YOU THINK.
MAYBE THEY REFINE A LITTLE BIT AND THEN MAYBE THEY GO TO THE BOARD TO SEE IF THE BOARD EVEN HAS A FLAVOR FOR IT AT THAT POINT.
I THINK IT'S GENERALLY OUR PATH FORWARD AT THIS POINT.
WELL, MY FIRST SWING AT IT IS THAT I AGREE WITH BOB.
I MEAN, IT'S CERTAINLY BETTER THAN THAT BUILDING THAT'S SITTING THERE NOW.
I MEAN, IT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, UM, AND I'M SURE YOU GUYS HAVE DONE WHATEVER WORK YOU DO TO KNOW WHATEVER BIG BOX OR WHATEVER YOU'RE GONNA PUT IN THERE IS, IS SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE UTILIZED.
UM, BUT I MEAN, I THINK THE PLAN ITSELF IS
WE DON'T HAVE TO VOTE ON ANYTHING HERE, SO, SO ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS? BUT IT LOOKED, LOOKED TO ME, IT LOOKS PRETTY GOOD, ALLISON, FOR THE FIRST SHOT.
UM, TOM, UM, I THINK YOU'RE, UH, I AGREE WITH YOU.
I MEAN, THE MIX OF USES IS VERY, UH, INTERESTING AND, AND PROBABLY, UH, APPROPRIATE, UH, WAY TO DIVERSIFY THE SITE.
UM, I THINK, UH, WHAT'S GONNA BE INTERESTING AS YOU GET FURTHER INTO THE REVIEWS IS, UM, THIS MIX OF USES IS GONNA GENERATE A LOT MORE TRAFFIC THAN THE BUILDING THAT WAS THERE.
AND I'M WONDERING, YOU KNOW, AS, AS WE START TO LOOK AT THINGS LIKE, UH, UH, SERVICE LEVELS THAT THESE INTERSECTIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, IT JUST BE SOMETHING TO, UH, TO, TO, TO BE AWARE OF.
AND THAT'S WHERE ANTHONY HAS TO HE'LL, HE'LL LOOK AT IT AND HE'LL, HE'LL ADVISE US ON THAT, ON WHAT KIND OF TRAFFIC PATTERNS THEY'RE GONNA BE AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT STUFF.
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE MY OTHER QUESTION WOULD BE THAT CUTAWAY UP THERE ON BLACKROCK IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, HOW THAT'S GONNA AFFECT BLACKROCK WITH THE, YOU KNOW, EXIT FROM ALL THOSE TOWNHOUSES? I THINK YEAH, BUT ANTHONY, THAT'S WHEN YOU'LL, YOU'LL DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE THERE AND, UH, HE'LL, HE'LL ADVISE US ON WHAT WHAT HE THINKS IS THE BEST.
I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THE DESIGN ITSELF IS A, IS NICE LOOKING COMPARED TO WHAT'S SITTING THERE NOW.
AND I, I, IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT, THAT, UH, THAT SIGNALED, UM,
[00:25:01]
UH, UH, CURB CUT.I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL.
IT'S ALREADY GOT A TURN OFF INTO IT, SO, UM, IT'S, UH, IT'S, IT IS, IT'S NOT JUST A, A SIMPLE CURB CUT.
IT'S PRETTY, IT'S PRETTY WELL ENGINEERED ALREADY.
SO, UM, THAT WAS ONE OF THE ATTRACTIVE THINGS ABOUT THIS SITE, OBVIOUSLY.
IS THAT AN EMERGENCY EXIT FOR THE EXISTING BUILDING? WHAT'S THAT? LIKE CURB CUT? UH, THE ONE ON BLACKROCK? MM-HMM.
UH, I THINK IT WAS THE ORIGINAL CURB CUT FOR THE, FOR THE HOUSE, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
I THINK AT, AT ITS CURRENT SITUATION, UH, THERE'S A PARKING LOT WHERE THE TOWNHOUSES ARE NOW.
UM, AND I THINK YOU CAN GET THERE LIKE A, THROUGH A CIRCUITOUS ROUTE, BUT, UM, WE WOULD OBVIOUSLY WANT TO WIDEN IT UP A LITTLE BIT AND JUST MAKE IT MORE REALISTIC.
YOU ONLY GOT A MAIN IN OR OUT FOR THE RESIDENTS OF THESE? FOR THE, UH, TOWNHOUSES? FOR THE RE YEAH.
OUR EXPECTATION IS THE INGRESS AND EGRESS WOULD ALL BE OFF OF 29 FOR THE, FOR THE RETAIL.
WELL, UH, DAVID WANT COMMENTS OTHER THAN NICKY MAKE A COMMENT? CERTAINLY.
I'M SORRY, I, ARE YOU FINISHED? I'LL YEAH.
UM, JOE PETERS STEP UP TO THE MIC, SIR.
YOU KNOW THAT NOW, JOE, I'LL SPEAK INTO THE MIC.
YOU KNOW THAT, JOE, I APOLOGIZE.
UM, MY ONLY QUESTIONS ARE THINGS THAT I WOULD SUGGEST YOU BE CONCERNED ABOUT IS IF I UNDERSTOOD RIGHT, THERE'S ONLY ONE ENTRANCE INTO THIS WHOLE COMPLEX OFF OF, OFF OF, UH, 29.
THERE'S, SO THERE'S THE MAIN, THE MAIN ENTRANCE OFF OF 29, AND THEN THE SECONDARY CURB CUT OVER BY THE TOWNS.
THERE IS A WAY TO GET FROM ONE ENTRANCE TO THE OTHER.
SO THEY'RE NOT, THESE, THESE SITES ARE NOT COMPLETELY SEGREGATED.
THERE'S, UH, A CREEK BETWEEN THE BIG PINK BOX AND THE GROUP OF PURPLE BOXES.
THERE'S A CREEK, CREEK THAT RUNS THROUGH THERE, AND TWO EXISTING SORT OF, UH, BRIDGES KIND OF.
UM, AND WE WOULD MAINTAIN BOTH OF THOSE.
I WOULD JUST BE QUESTIONING THE ACCESS.
I'M SORRY, MISSED I MY FINGER TO, TO THE TOWN, THE TOWNHOUSES.
I MEAN, THAT'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC AND COMING TO GET INTO THE TOWNHOUSES AND, UH, I DON'T KNOW, A LITTLE TINY EXIT AREA THAT, YOU KNOW, JUST QUESTION.
AND THE SECOND PART IS, UM, PARKING FOR THE TOWNHOUSES, ASSUMING THERE'S MORE THAN ONE CAR PER TOWNHOUSE FOR STACKED, I DON'T SEE LOTS OF PARKING.
AND FOR PEOPLE VISITING THE TOWNHOUSES, I, YOU KNOW, I JUST WOULD QUESTION JUST WHAT, WHAT APPEARS TO BE THE DENSITY OF THE TOWNHOUSES AS TO WHERE ALL THOSE PEOPLE ARE GONNA PARK AND HOW THAT, YOU KNOW, IS, IS GONNA APPLY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE RETAIL AREA SEEMS, YOU KNOW, GREAT.
IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE IT'S, IT'S FINE, BUT THE WHOLE RESIDENTIAL PIECE TO ME IN TERMS OF ACCESS, PARKING, UH, EMERGENCY SERVICES, ACCESS, WHATEVER.
AND I, AND I AGREE, JOE, I THINK THAT, I THINK WE ALL PROBABLY WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THAT LIVING SECTION, BUT I THINK WE GOTTA GIVE OUR CONSULTANTS A CHANCE TO, TO, TO GIVE US THEIR ADVICE ON THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY THINK IS PROPER AND, YOU KNOW, FIRE CHIEF AND ALL THAT.
I'M JUST MAKING A COMMENT THAT THAT OUGHT TO BE SOMETHING THAT WELL, AND, AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST SORT OF IN THE SORT, THE FACT FINDING.
WE'RE LOOKING AT THE VISION TO SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO FORWARD WITH, AND WE'LL DECIDE AFTER THIS, THEY'LL TALK INTERNALLY WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANNA COME BACK, IF THEY WANNA REVISE THIS PLAN AND COME BACK WITH SOME OTHER IDEAS AND DISCUSS IT, OR IF THEY WANT TO JUMP TO THE BOARD.
I MEAN, THAT'S INTERNAL FOR THEM TO DECIDE AND WE'LL SORT OF MOVE THAT FORWARD.
AND, AND THAT'S THE COMMENT I'M MAKING.
I THINK IT JUST IS WHAT YOU'RE SHOWING US LOOKS VERY NICE.
NOW, DOES THAT MEAN THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA SAY YEAH, WHEN CAN YOU START MOWING? NO, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THE DESIGN LOOKS NICE AND WE APPRECIATE THAT.
I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT WE WERE LOOKING EXACTLY LIKE JEFF IS SAYING, INFORMAL MEETING, GET COMMENTS AND WE CAN GO BACK AND, YOU KNOW, TAKE THEM BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND UPDATE THINGS AND REFINE THINGS.
IF YOU, WE CAME IN AND YOU SAID, NOPE, WE NEVER WANNA SEE ANYTHING LIKE THAT ON THE SITE.
THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE'RE HERE TONIGHT TO FIGURE OUT.
I THINK IT'S NICE HOW YOU PUT THE DIFFERENT THINGS TOGETHER.
I THINK IT MIGHT BE TOO CROWDED IN THE TOWNHOUSE SIDE AND THAT LITTLE DRIVEWAY COMING IN JUST TO SAVE THAT CURB CUT.
I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO CUT IT BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE GOING LIKE THIS TO GET INTO IT.
SO WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING, JUST TO BE CLEAR, THE, THE CURB CUT THAT'S THERE NOW IS YES, THAT'S, THAT'S THE THING.
WE CUT THE CURB CUT THAT'S THERE NOW IS, IS, I WOULD GUESS PROBABLY 12 TO 15 FEET WIDE.
WE WOULD OBVIOUSLY WIDEN IT TO AT LEAST 24 AGAIN FOR INGRESS EGRESS, BUT ALSO FOR FIRE TRUCKS THAT YOU WERE SPEAKING ABOUT EARLIER.
BUT WE'VE, WE'VE, WE ACTUALLY HAD AN INTERNAL DISCUSSION
[00:30:01]
ABOUT, UH, UH, SUPPLEMENTARY PARKING FOR THE TOWNS TODAY.SO, YOU KNOW, WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE THAT UNDER CONSIDERATION.
IS THIS SECTION AND THAT, OR IS IT OURS? PEN DOT AND THAT? YEAH.
I THINK FROM, FROM, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE HEARING FROM US, ALLISON, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT LOOKS GOOD.
WE GOT, OBVIOUSLY WE BOTH HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO, BUT I THINK IT LOOKS, I THINK FIRST IMPRESSION IS I'M, I LIKE GREAT, GREAT.
LET ME JUST BACK UP ONE THING.
ON THE EXISTING BUILDING, THERE'S NO WAY TO REDO THAT.
SO WE BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WE'VE LOOKED AT IT A COUPLE OF WAYS.
UM, BUT I THINK THE END, THE END USE IS JUST NOT APPLICABLE ANYMORE.
UM, THERE'S JUST NOT A MARKET FOR THESE BIG
I WASN'T THINKING OF USING IT FOR OFFICE, BUT I MEAN, THAT COULDN'T BE CONVERTED FOR ANYTHING ELSE.
I WILL SAY THAT NOT THESE, NOT THESE GUYS SPECIFICALLY, BUT LIKE I SAID, I GOT CALLS FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHEN THIS WAS ON THE MARKET, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DID LOOK AT THE BUILDING FOR MULTI-FAMILY CONVERSION, BUT THEY DID SAY, FIRST OF ALL, THERE'D HAVE TO BE, AGAIN, THAT WOULD REQUIRE REZONING.
BUT EVERYBODY WAS SAYING ONE BUILDING ALONE WOULD NOT BE, FINANCIALLY, IT WOULDN'T WORK.
LIKE YOU WOULD NEED, YOU'D NEED TO MAKE IT, YOU KNOW, LARGER.
AND THAT'S WHAT I LIKE ABOUT IT, THAT YOU'RE NOT MAKING IT JUST RESIDENTIAL.
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, OVER THERE BY, UH, UPTOWN CENTER.
WE DON'T NEED THAT COMPLEX LIKE THAT AGAIN.
SO I, I THINK THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT ATTRACTIVE TO ME IS THAT IT IS MULTI-USE.
YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE BREAKING IT UP AND, UH, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THE CAPACITY OF THE, OF THE RESIDENTIAL, I MEAN THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THE ZONING AND, AND ANTHONY AND ALL THE PEOPLE THAT DO THIS EVERY DAY, THEY'LL TELL US THAT.
I A COMMENT ON, YEAH, COME ON BILL.
ANYBODY ELSE CAN COMMENT YOU COME UP.
JUST MAKE SURE YOU GIVE YOUR NAME AND, UM, UM, WHERE YOU'RE FROM.
WELL, MAYBE, BUT SHORT
UH, AND YEAH, THIS, THIS LOOKS GREAT.
UM, I, I THINK A COUPLE COMMENTS I WOULD HAVE EXACTLY, BUT THIS GENTLEMAN SAID WOULD BE THE, JUST THE TRAFFIC COMING IN AND OUT OF THERE, LEFT HAND TURN ONTO THAT, ONTO BLACKROCK ROAD, CLOSE TO THAT INTERSECTION AND SO FORTH.
BUT, UH, THE ONLY OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS, UH, WHAT'S THE IMPERVIOUS NOW AND WHAT'S, WHAT WOULD THE IMPERVIOUS BE POST-DEVELOPMENT AND, UH, THE STREAM THAT YOU MENTIONED? I'M NOT SURE THE SOURCE OF THAT STREAM OR WHERE THAT STREAM GOES, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, A CONCERN, ESPECIALLY WITH THIS WEATHER WE'RE HAVING NOW WITH, WITH ALL THE SALT THAT'S SUPPLIED AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, WHAT MIGHT, YOU KNOW, BE EXACERBATED SURE.
SO SHOULD I STAND UP? YEAH, YEAH.
SO, UM, WITH REGARDS TO THE PERVIOUS VERSUS IMPERVIOUS, LIKE I SAID, ONE OF THE ATTRACTIVE THINGS ABOUT THIS SITE IS THE FACT THAT THERE'S A TON OF CIRCULATION, VEHICULAR CIRCULATION AROUND THE SITE AND A LOT OF PARKING SPACES ALREADY.
UM, YEAH, SO THE AREA, SO THE ONLY AREA THAT WE'RE REALLY GONNA BE INCREASING THE IMPERVIOUS IS WHERE THE TWO BLUE PADS ARE UP ON THE NORTH PLAN, NORTHEASTERN CORNER.
AND, UH, WE'RE EXTENDING SOME OF THE IMPERVIOUS ALONG THE TOWNHOUSES ON THE NORTH, THE NORTHERNMOST BAR AND THE TWO, UH, WESTERNMOST BOOKS.
THE REST OF THE, THE REST OF THE SITE IS, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE REUTILIZING EVERYTHING.
UM, AND IF YOU GO TO ANY OF THE RENDERINGS, THE OVERALL RENDERINGS, YOU'LL SEE WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO BRING IN MORE, MORE GRASS AND MORE TREES INTO THE SORT OF THE HEART OF THE SITE THAT OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A GREAT SWATH OF TREES THAT COME, COMES ALONG BLACKROCK, WHICH WE WANNA MAINTAIN COMPLETELY.
UM, 'CAUSE THAT'S A GREAT BUFFER TO THE REST OF THE, UH, TO ACROSS THE STREET.
UH, BUT THE IDEA IS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD BE TRYING TO, TO IMPLEMENT MORE TREES ON THE SITE.
ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENTS? ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD? CONSULTANTS IF I, IF I MAY? OH YEAH, YEAH.
UM, SO THE CONCERN, WE HAD DISCUSSED A LOT OF THOSE CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED REGARDING TRAFFIC.
OBVIOUSLY THAT'S, UH, WE CERTAINLY TAKE A LOOK AT ALL THAT WHEN IT COMES THROUGH IN, IN THE GREAT DETAIL, BOTH ACCESS, TURN LANES, ALL THAT STUFF WOULD BE VETTED OUT.
UM, ONE THING THAT'S STOOD OUT TO ME IF I JUST MENTION IT FOR CONSIDERATION IS THAT THE ENTRANCE WAY OFF OF 29, THE IMMEDIATE RIGHT THAT'S THERE IS VERY OPEN.
MM-HMM,
I HAVE A FEELING PENDO WILL PROBABLY RAISE A SIMILAR CONCERN.
[00:35:01]
MAYBE AN INITIAL WRITE IN ONLY AND THEN SEPARATE THE IN OUT FOR FURTHER INTERNALLY.YEAH, LOOK AT THAT A LITTLE BIT.
I, IT'S A LITTLE TIGHT IN THAT AREA, BUT ONE THING THAT STOOD OUT TO ME IS IT'S VERY OPEN, IT IS NOT COMFORTABLE WITH ALL THAT TRACK MOVING IN AND OUT SO CLOSE TO 29.
WE WHAT, WHAT, AS ALLISON KNOWS WHAT OUR CONSULTANTS, WE TAKE A LOT OF WHAT THEY GIVE US AND WE RUN WITH IT.
YOU KNOW, TALK TO ANTHONY, UM,
IF YOU MOVE THAT CURB CUT UP, HOW CLOSE WOULD THAT BE? GETTING TO THE, SHOULD WE SAY THE BACK ENTRANCE TO THE SKATE PARK, WHICH IS RIGHT BACK IN THERE.
SKATE PARK IS, UM, AND IT'S HARD TO SEE MY CURSOR, BUT THE SKATE PARK IS PROBABLY UP IN THIS AREA UP IN THE NORTH, THE UPPER LEFT CORNER OF THE, OF THE SITE.
BUT THAT DOES RUN RIGHT DOWN ABOUT HERE.
SO I GUESS THERE'S GONNA HAVE TO BE SOME SEPARATION.
UM, YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S A PERMANENT ENTRANCE.
WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY IS THE SKATE PARK MAY NOT BE STAYING THERE.
THE PARKS AND REC DEPARTMENT HAS PLANS TO SORT OF RECONFIGURE A LOT OF THIS PARK AND UTILIZE IT BETTER.
'CAUSE IT'S KIND OF SPLIT IN HALF, WHICH IS PARTIALLY THIS BUILDING'S FAULT AND PUBLIC WORKS BEHIND US.
SO IT'S SORT OF SPLIT IN HALF.
THEY, THEY WANT TO CONSOLIDATE SOME OF THE USES AND, AND THAT'S A LONG TERM LONG RANGE PLAN.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THE SKATE PARK WOULD NECESSARILY BE STAYING THERE.
AND THAT'S THE MAIN REASON FOR PEOPLE TO USE THAT, ISN'T IT? YES.
WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
DO WE GOT HERE? WELL, OTHER THAN I REALIZED I NEVER FINISHED THIS SLIDE.JANUARY 7TH, WE WILL HAVE A MEETING, UH, PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER APARTMENTS WILL BE ON THAT AGENDA.
AT LEAST THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING.
I'M GOING TO NOT BE REAL PLEASED IF THEY PULL THEMSELVES OFF AGAIN THE DAY OF THE MEETING.
I I KNOW A COUPLE OF OUR, UM, ATTENDEES TONIGHT ARE FROM
I'M SURE THEY ENJOYED THIS, BUT RESIDENTS OF WHITE SPRINGS.
SO THEY WERE HERE, I'M SURE TO DISCUSS THAT.
AND, AND, UM, THAT'S THE PLAN FOR FEBRUARY 7TH.
THAT'S THE ONLY THING WE REALLY HAD QUEUED UP AT THIS POINT.
WELL, I, I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT FOR THEM COMING IN BECAUSE I, I HAD A LOT OF, HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT STILL ABOUT THAT, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL COME NEXT MONTH.
UM, THE OTHER THING, SINCE, AS YOU EXPLAINED EARLIER, SINCE WE DO NOT HAVE THE PARK HOUSE ORDINANCE COMING TO US, MY PLAN IS TO GET BACK TO THE SECOND MEETING OF THE MONTH, GETTING ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
SO SECOND MONTH MEETING IN FEBRUARY.
THE SECOND, SECOND MEETING IN FEBRUARY IS TO TALK ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
AGAIN, THAT'S THE LAST WE TALKED ABOUT WAS SOME LAND USE CHANGES AND SOME LAND USE.
HOW WE MOVE FORWARD WITH SOME LAND USES.
I'M JUST SORT OF GONNA GO THROUGH THAT.
AGAIN, I MIGHT BE REPETITIVE FOR SOME OF US IT MIGHT BE, IT MIGHT NOT BE.
BUT JUST TO GET TO REITERATE SORT OF WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT, AND MAYBE WE CAN COME TO SOME DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT WE PUT IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN TERMS OF FUTURE LAND USES.
IS, IS IT FAIR, IS IT FAIR TO ASK THIS QUESTION THAT IF WE FIX SOMETHING IN THE, IN THE USE, USE, UH, PLAN, THAT WOULD PREVENT ANOTHER, EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE THE PROPERTY, ANOTHER PARK COST DISASTER 10 YEARS FROM WHAT WE CAN DO IS THE COMP, AS WE SAID, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS A POLICY DOCUMENT.
AND BECAUSE THERE'S A PENDING APPLICATION, WE REALLY CAN'T DO MUCH TO CHANGE THAT.
NOW I'M GONNA SAY, I'M TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER PIECE OF PROPERTY SO WE DON'T HAVE ANOTHER PARK ON.
IF THERE'S PROP, IF THERE'S PROPERTIES THAT YOU THINK ARE, ARE YOU WANT TO CONSERVE, THAT YOU WANT TO PUT INTO OPEN SPACE, CERTAINLY MAKE THAT A RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY, THAT'S WHERE YOU, YOU WANT THIS PROPERTY TO BE OPEN SPACE RIGHT NOW.
THE RUB IS THAT IF IT'S PRIVATELY HELD PROPERTY, WE'RE NOT TAKING AWAY ANY PROPERTY RATES.
ALL WE'RE DOING IS RECOMMENDING, AND THEN THE TOWNSHIP, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WOULD TAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION AND IN THE FUTURE, MAYBE THEY WOULD PURSUE PURCHASING IT.
MAYBE THAT LANDOWNER WOULD SAY, I WANT TO KEEP IT AS OPEN SPACE TOO.
SO THEY, BUT IF THAT'S A RECOMMENDATION YOU WANNA MAKE FOR SOME PARCELS ON THE TOWNSHIP THAT ABSOLUTELY WITHIN YOUR PERVIEW.
BUT YOU KNOW, IN THAT PROCESS, CAN WE, IF WE FIND
[00:40:01]
A PIECE OF PROPERTY LIKE THAT, THAT WE'D LIKE TO KEEP OPEN SPACE OR THAT WE'D LIKE TO RESTRICT YEAH.THE USE OF IT, CAN WE CHANGE, CAN WE RECOMMEND A CHANGING OF THE ZONE? NO, BECAUSE THAT WOULD PROBABLY DOWN ZONE THE PROPERTY.
AND THAT'S PART OF THE ISSUE THAT WE HAVE WITH PARKHOUSE, IS THEY HAVE ZONING IN PLACE AND AS MUCH AS WE WANT REDUCE THE ZONING, THERE'S NO PLAN IN PLACE.
EVEN IF THERE'S NO PLAN IN PLACE.
BECAUSE, WELL, LET ME BACK UP, BECAUSE MOST PROPERTIES ARE GONNA BE, THAT YOU'RE GONNA IDENTIFY AS OPEN SPACE, THEY'RE PROBABLY GONNA BE ZONED R ONE MORE THAN LIKELY.
THAT'S WHAT THE MAJORITY OF THE VACANT PROPERTY IS.
NOW, IF THEY WERE ZONED R TWO, YOU COULDN'T TAKE THEM DOWN TO R ONE BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE TAKING PROPERTY RIGHTS DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS AWAY FROM THAT PROPERTY OWNER BY GOING TO R ONE.
BUT IF THERE'S, AGAIN, YOU CAN, EVEN WITH A VACANT PIECE OF PROPERTY, YOU CAN RECOMMEND CONSERVATION, YOU CAN RECOMMEND OPEN SPACE BECAUSE THAT DOES ALLOW THE TOWNSHIP TO OPEN A DIALOGUE WITH THAT PROPERTY OWNER.
MAYBE THE REASON THAT SOME OF THE PROPERTY DOWN OFF OF SECOND AVENUE, BEHIND A PARK HOUSE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, THAT'S OPEN.
OBVIOUSLY IT'S DEVELOPABLE PROPERTY.
MAYBE THE PROPERTY OWNERS REALLY DON'T WANNA SEE DEVELOPMENT THERE AND THEY'RE JUST WAITING FOR THE TOWNSHIP TO COME TO THEM AND MAKE THEM AN OFFER.
I DON'T KNOW THAT FOR A FACT, BUT MAYBE THAT'S THE CASE.
AND THIS SORT OF SETS THAT POLICY IN PLACE.
SEE, SEE, UNDERSTANDING, THIS IS GOING THROUGH JOE'S PRESENTATION LAST NIGHT AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT THAT IF AS LONG AS WE, THERE'S NOTHING ON THE PLANS, NOTHING IN WORKS, NO.
UH, SUBMITTAL OF ANY KIND THAT WE COULD START MANIPULATING THE, THAT'S PROBABLY BAD.
WE COULD, WE COULD, WE COULD CHANGE THE ZONING AND UH, AND TO PROTECT THAT PROPERLY WITHIN LIMITS.
I MEAN, THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS WE CAN DO AND IT IS NOT ALWAYS CHANGING THE ZONING, BUT IT DOES MAKING A POLICY OF WE WANT TO PRESERVE THIS.
THAT'S HOW THE JOYCE PROPERTY THAT'S UP ON LEWIS ROAD UP NORTH OF THE SCHOOLS, THERE'S A PROPERTY THERE THAT CERTAINLY, THAT'S CURRENTLY, IT'S A LEASE PURCHASED OR IT'S A, UH, A LIFE LEASE THAT WE GAVE MR. JOYCE THAT LIVES THERE.
WE PUT THAT ON OUR, ON OUR OFFICIAL MAP AND PART OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WE'LL WORK ON THE OFFICIAL MAP AS A PROPERTY WE WOULD LIKE TO OBTAIN AND WE WOULD LIKE TO ACQUIRE.
UM, WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT IS MR. JOYCE, THE PARKS DEPARTMENT STARTED TALKING AND EVENTUALLY IT TOOK YEARS, BUT EVENTUALLY THEY CAME TO AN AGREEMENT WHERE HE'S ALLOWED TO LIVE THERE AND WE PAID HIM A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY, AND NOW WE ARE GOING TO BE GETTING THE PROPERTY AT SOME POINT AFTER HE DECIDED WHETHER HE PASSES OR WHETHER HE MOVES OUT OR WHATEVER.
RIGHT? WHENEVER HE RELINQUISH HIS RIGHT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE.
SO, SO THAT, SO THE CASE, IF WE COULD RECOMMEND SOMETHING FOR OPEN SPACE, BUT THEN NORMALLY THE PROCESS IS A NEGOTIATION OCCURS.
AND, AND LOOK, IT'S ALWAYS HELPFUL IF THAT PROPERTY OWNER COMES FORWARD AND SAYS, HEY, I WANT TO, I WANT THIS.
I WANNA GET THIS PROPERTY TO THE TOWNSHIP.
AND WE START FIGURING IT OUT AND WE START WORKING THROUGH THE PROCESS OF THAT.
WELL, JEFF, HOW, HOW CAN YOU, HOW CAN YOU, LET'S JUST SAY WE WERE ANOTHER TOWNSHIP AND WE HAD A LOT MORE PARK HOUSES.
HOW CAN WE PROTECT THAT PROPERTY IN THE FUTURE? AGAIN, YOU, THERE'S A VARIETY OF WAYS TO DO IT.
NOW YOU CAN CREATE ZONING THAT'S LESS THAN, THAT'S LIKE FOUR UNITS PER ACRE.
A LOT OF YOUR, YOU KNOW, INNER, THE, A LOT OF THE MUNICIPALITIES IN, IN THE CENTRAL PART OF THE STATE WILL HAVE FOUR ACRES ZONING.
THAT'S ABOUT THE MOST ZONING YOU CAN, THE BIGGEST ZONING YOU CAN DO.
UM, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH A PROCESS TO SHOW THAT THE CONSERVATION OF OPEN SPACE IS WHAT YOU, OF WHAT YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS GOING TO DO.
AND WHILE WE HAVE AN OPEN SPACE PLAN THAT'S IDENTIFIED CERTAIN PARCELS FOR OPEN SPACE AND WE HAVE MOST OF THOSE, OR, OR WE'VE CONSERVED A PORTION OF THOSE PIECES, IT IS STILL, UM, IT'S STILL A, IT STILL BOILS DOWN TO, AS A NEGOTIATION WITH A PRIVATE OWNER, PRIVATE PIECE OF PROPERTY.
SO FOR INSTANCE, ACROSS FROM PROVINCETOWN CENTER AUDUBON, YES.
THERE'S NOTHING WE COULD DO TO PROTECT THAT.
I MEAN, THEY COULD COME IN THERE AND SAY, WE'RE GONNA PUT UP THREE STACK OF BUILDINGS OR PROPOSED TO PUT IN CORRECT STACKED APARTMENT BUILDING.
NOW THEY CAN'T PUT APARTMENTS THERE, BUT THEY CAN PUT OFFICE BUILDINGS LIKE ACROSS THE STREET IN CAMPUS DRIVE.
UM, I DON'T SEE THEM DOING THAT 'CAUSE THERE'S NO MARKET FOR THAT CURRENTLY.
BUT THERE ALSO COULD BE SOME NEGOTIATION WITH OTHER DEVELOPMENT THEY WANT TO DO.
HEY, LOOK, WE WANT TO ACQUIRE THIS OPEN SPACE.
WE'LL LET YOU DO, JUST LIKE WE'VE DONE WITH, WITH YY STATION, WE'VE ALLOWED THEM TO PUT MORE DENSITY ON YY STATION BECAUSE WE GOT THEM TO PAY FOR THAT BIG EXPENSIVE INTERSECTION.
THAT'S, THAT'S PARTIALLY WHAT, THAT'S A LOT OF HOW YOU WOULD PRESERVE SOMETHING IS YOU WOULD SAY, LOOK, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE WANT TO PRESERVE THIS PROPERTY.
WE, BUT WE KNOW YOU HAVE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS.
HOW CAN WE GET THOSE DEVELOPMENT RATES SOMEWHERE ELSE THAT, THAT WE DON'T MIND IN THIS DEVELOPED, WHETHER THAT'S, YOU KNOW, 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE OR LET'S LET YOU PUT APARTMENTS THERE.
THAT'S HOW WE GOT, THAT'S, AND THAT'S HOW WE GOT TAYLOR FARM IS, IS
[00:45:01]
WE DID THE, WE DID THE PROVIDENCE CORNER, WHICH IS THE, THE DEVELOPMENT RIGHT THERE BEHIND, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD FROM PJP.IT'S A PRETTY DENSE DEVELOPMENT.
IT'S GOT TOWNHOUSES IN SINGLE IN THE SMALLEST SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE.
UM, BUT WE TRADED TAYLOR FARM FOR IT.
THE 75 ACRES OF TAYLOR FARM WAS PART OF THAT.
AND I JUST WAS WONDERING 'CAUSE I JUST WANT, OKAY.
IS THERE, YOU GUYS WANT ANY COMMENTS YOU GUYS WANNA MAKE OR YOU'RE HERE, YOU WANT TO, YOU WANNA COME UP AND JUST INTRODUCE YOURSELVES OR ANYTHING? OR GET IN THE RECORD BOOK? BOB, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? I DO.
THIS IS KIND OF, I WON'T SAY OFF THE SUBJECT, BUT IT'S DIFFERENT THAN ANYBODY PRESENTED LAST NIGHT AND WE'VE NEVER EVEN TALKED ABOUT IT.
EVERYBODY PROBABLY HAD DINNER TONIGHT, RIGHT? I GUESS MOST OF US DID.
BUT, UH, IT'S FUNNY TO DINNER REMINDED THEM.
I, UM, AND EVERYTHING IS FARM TO TABLE TODAY.
WELL, IT'S NOT, WELL, IT COULD BE A LIE.
UM, SOMEBODY'S GONNA HAVE TO HAVE A FARM SOMEPLACE AND UNLESS THEY TRANSPORT THEM AND THEN THEY'RE NOT LOCAL ANYMORE.
WELL, THERE WAS, AND AGAIN, I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANNA DELVE TOO MUCH AND SPEND THE WHOLE TIME ON PARKHOUSE.
THERE WAS THIS ORIGINAL PLAN, AND WE'VE KIND OF CALLED IT THE SERENITY PLAN, WHICH WAS THE ORIGINAL PLAN.
AND I THINK IT ONLY WENT TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
IT WAS DURING COVID, IT WAS WHEN EVERYTHING WAS ON ZOOM.
IT WAS A VERY, VERY VAGUE PLAN.
BUT HE HAD, THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS TO HAVE A FARM, A FARM LIT IN THERE, LET.
I THINK HE WAS TALKING SOME CROPS, MOSTLY HORSES, SOME OTHER ANIMALS AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN THERE AS PART OF THIS RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT THAT WAS MET WITH A RESOUNDING, NO, MORE THAN LIKELY THAT WAS BECAUSE OF WHERE IT WAS IN THE PROCESS.
AND IT WAS SORT OF DROPPED ON EVERYBODY.
IT WAS THE ROLLOUT OF IT WAS A FIASCO, BUT THAT'S THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T GO BACK AND CHANGE HISTORY.
SO I, I RESPECT WHERE YOU'RE AT WITH THAT AND I UNDERSTAND.
I JUST, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS PROPERTY OWNER WOULD CONSIDER THAT AS MUCH AS I WOULD LOVE TO FOR HIM TO CONSIDER THAT I CAN'T CONTROL.
BUT WE'RE, WE'RE THE GOVERNING BODY AND AND WE SHOULD BE PROVIDING THAT SHOULD WE NOT AND PLANNING FOR IT.
WE ALL HAVE TO EAT SOME I I AGREE.
AND, AND WE HAVE, WE HAVE TWO WORKING FARMS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
THE RAIDER FARM, GRANTED THAT'S ONLY TREES.
AND THEN THERE IS THE, THE PROPERTY THAT'S AT THE CORNER OF WARTMAN AND TOWNSHIP LINE.
HE'S STILL, HE DOESN'T DO A LOT OF FARMING.
MOST OF HIS PRODUCE, HE BRINGS IN FROM LANCASTER.
AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S, YOU KNOW, AS, AS THE SUBURBS CREEP OUT THAT IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT THAT HAPPENS.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, IT IS THOSE FARMERS' RETIREMENT PLANS, THEY DON'T HAVE A CORPORATE RETIREMENT PLAN.
I'M JUST SOLD BUSINESS OWNER, SO I DON'T HAVE ONE EITHER.
BUT LIKE ANTHONY, I'M SURE HE'S GOT A GREAT PENSION FROM MONT.
I'M SURE HE FULLY VESTED NOW THAT THEY'RE, THEY JUST BOUGHT THEM.
I'M JUST GONNA THROW 'EM COMPLETELY UNDER THE BUS ON TAPE.
YOU KNOW, SO WITH A FARMER, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT.
AND THAT SELLING THEIR PROPERTY AND SUBDIVIDING THEIR PROPERTY IS THEIR RETIREMENT PLAN.
JUST FOR THIS TOWNSHIP, I'M JUST SAYING GENERALLY FROM A PLANNING STANDPOINT, THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE DO.
AND I HOPE SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE RYERS IS A FOR EXAMPLE, BUT HE'S ALREADY GOT HIS MONEY 'CAUSE HE ALREADY SOLD 90% OF HIS FARM.
BUT LET'S HOPE WE'RE TALKING TO HIM ABOUT WHAT'S LEFT.
AND THERE'S SOME DEEP RESTRICTION ON WHAT IS LEFT ON, ON THAT AS PART OF WHAT HE BUILT THE HIGHLANDS.
WHAT HE BUILT THERE VERSUS WHAT HE HAS LEFT.
UM, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD PUT IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WE SHOULD MAKE SURE AND ENSURE THEIR CONTINUED OPERATION AS AGRICULTURAL BUSINESS.
HE, HE, HE, YOU KNOW, HE IS AN ELDERLY MAN AT THIS POINT.
YES, MR. HE'S NOT, YOU KNOW, HE, I'M MANY MORE YEARS HE'S GONNA DO WHAT HE'S DOING.
I KNOW HE LOVES TO DO IT, BUT, BUT WE SHOULD BE PLANNING FOR THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY BECAUSE, UH, I'M REALLY CURIOUS, DO YOU DO THE PUMPKIN CHALLENGE OR YOU PUT AS MANY AS YOUR HANDS IN IN YOUR HANDS? NO, I JUST GO OVER AND PET THE COWS.
THAT'S ALL I, BUT YOU ARE RIGHT JEFF.
SO I KNOW THAT IS WHAT THE FARM OF RETIREMENT AND WHAT ABOUT THE FARM ON THE CORNER OF, UH, WARLAND AND, AND TOWNSHIP WINE? YEAH.
AND THERE'S ONE UP POINT WHERE, WHERE OUR NEWEST MEMBER LIVES.
UH, I'M NOT SURE OF THE STATUS OF THAT ONE, BUT I KNOW THAT I'M NOT FAMILIAR.
THE ONE THAT YOU BACK UP THE FARM THAT'S SORT OF BACKS UP TO YOU IN TOWNSHIP WINE OR, UH, TRACK.
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OWNER'S NAME THERE YET.BUT YEAH, THERE'S ALSO A PICO EASEMENT THAT RUNS THROUGH THERE TOO.
WHICH, UH, WELL WE, WE CERTAINLY PROBABLY PREVENT THAT FROM EVER BEING DEVELOPED.
WE, WE CERTAINLY NEED TO IDENTIFY THOSE AREAS AND PLAN FOR THOSE HERE.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ANYBODY? EVERYBODY'S GOOD.
I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
OH, I JUST WANT TO WELCOME OUR NEW MEMBER OFFICIALLY.
AND, UH, WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOU, UH, HELPING US FIGURE THIS ALL OUT.
I'M HAPPY TO BE, UH, A PART OF THE COMMISSION AND, UH, HOPEFULLY, UH, FOR JUST SOME, UH, GOOD DISCUSSIONS.
THIS HAS, THIS HAS BEEN A TWO YEAR PROJECT FOR ME.
FULL DISCLOSURE, PATTY FIORI, WHO DOES THE MINUTES AND IS MY ZONING CLERK AS AN EMPLOYEE AND I'M NOT, BUT AS THE ZONING CLERK IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT DOES A LOT OF MY, UH, REALLY GRUNT WORK AND SHE'S PHENOMENAL AT IT.
THIS IS HER HUSBAND, HE'S AN ARCHITECT AND I'VE BEEN PUSHING TO HAVE HIM INVOLVED FOR TWO YEARS NOW.
WHETHER IT WAS THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, PLANNING COMMISSION, WHEN GILLY STEPPED DOWN, I LOOKED AT THERE WAS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO GET HIM HERE.
I THINK FROM AN ARCHITECTURAL STANDPOINT, HE BRINGS SOMETHING NICE TO THE TABLE.
I THINK FROM A, FROM A PSYCH DESIGN STANDPOINT, HE BRINGS SOMETHING GOOD TO THE TABLE IN COMBINATION WITH OUR REAL ESTATE BACKGROUND, FORMER DEVELOPER BACKGROUND, AND JUST ALL AROUND KNOWLEDGE OF YOU AND AJ.
I THINK WE HAVE A VERY WELL-ROUNDED PLANNING COMMISSION AT THIS POINT.
AND AND I ENCOURAGE YOU TO THROW ALL THE IDEAS OUT THERE YOU CAN FROM LEFT FIELD, RIGHT FIELD AND WHATEVER.
MAKE 'EM WORK, MAKE, MAKE US ALL WORK.
SO WE HAVE A, UH, A MOTION TO ADJOURN TO I TAKE A SECOND.
SO, UH, ALL IN FAVOR? ALL IN FAVOR.