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HOW GONNA START THE, I'M GONNA OPEN THE MEETING OF,[CALL TO ORDER]
UH, THE, UH, NOVEMBER 15TH, UM, 2023 UPPER PROVINCE TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.AND, UM, WITH THAT, WE'LL CALL THIS THE ORDER.
AND THE FIRST THING ON THE AGENDA WILL BE, UM, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AG AGENDA ITEMS. YOU HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS? THERE'S NOT A LOT ON THE AGENDA, SO YOU HAVE, WE'LL TAKE ANY COMMENTS TONIGHT.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
WORK WELL.GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS. SO THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO TONIGHT.
TONIGHT WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
TALK ABOUT IN THE PAST, THE PAST, PAST, UH, FEW MEETINGS, SORT OF BRINGING EVERYTHING TOGETHER, UM, ALL THE LAND USE OF THE POPULATION, ALL OF THAT.
UM, WHAT I'VE COME UP WITH IS THE FOUR AREAS BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL OFFICE AND OFFICE PARK, UH, RETAIL AND INDUSTRIAL, SORT OF WORKING ASSUMPTIONS MOVING FORWARD OF THINGS THAT JUST SORT OF WHAT'S IN, WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IN TERMS OF THE MARKET, IN TERMS OF WHAT'S IN THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT RESIDENTIAL, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY ANYTHING WE GET ASKED.
WE GET ASKED FOR MORE DENSITY.
WE, IT IS NEVER, WELL, LET ME JUST BUILD THE FOUR HOUSES I CAN BUILD.
HEY, IS THERE ANY WAY I CAN BUILD EIGHT ANYWHERE I CAN BUILD 12? SO THAT'S, THAT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING WE HAVE, SOMETHING WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND.
THESE ARE BASICALLY THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE MOVE FORWARD TO THE LAND USE PLAN.
SO THE SMALL PARCELS, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY BETWEEN 10 AND 15 ACRES, MAYBE LESS THAN 21, A GOOD WAY TO QUANTIFY IT, THEY'RE MORE ENVIRONMENTALLY CONSTRAINED.
YOU LOOK AT THE PARCELS WE'RE DEALING WITH NOW WITH AMELIA STREET, WITH LOVER'S LANE, THERE'S STEEP SLOPES, THERE'S WATER, SO THERE'S MORE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINT TO THEM.
BUT THE IMPACT OF THE TOWNSHIP IS LESS BECAUSE REALLY, EVEN IF YOU SOMEHOW GET A LITTLE MORE DENSITY OUTTA THERE, OR YOU GET AROUND THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINT, YOU'RE STILL TALKING A MINIMUM OF 10, 15, 20 HOUSES TOPS.
BUT THEN THE LARGE PARCELS THAT WE HAVE LEFT, AND YOU KNOW, WE CAN INCLUDE PARKHOUSE IN THAT.
WE CAN INCLUDE, UM, SOME OF THE OTHER 25, 26 ACRE PIECES THAT ARE LEFT.
THERE ARE SOME ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS THERE TOO, BUT IT IS EASIER TO DESIGN AROUND THEM WHEN, WHEN IT COMES TO DESIGN AND, AND BUILDING THOSE SUBDIVISIONS AND, AND HOW THOSE PARCELS ARE DEVELOPED.
UM, ANOTHER THING WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION IS ADDITIONAL DWELLING UNITS.
UM, THAT'S, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY PHONE CALLS I GET A WEEK FOR, HEY, I WANNA PUT AN IN-LAW SUITE IN MY HOUSE.
HEY, I WANT, YOU KNOW, I WANNA PUT AN APARTMENT IN MY HOUSE.
WHAT'S THE PROCEDURE? WHAT'S THE POLICY TO DO THAT? AND, AND HOW DO WE APPROACH THAT WITH, IN THE ZONING AND IN OUR FUTURE LAND USE DISCUSSIONS.
AND AGAIN, AS WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THE CONVERSIONS, CONVERSIONS OF SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES IN SOME AREAS TO MULTI-UNITS, THE CONVERSIONS OF A PART OF OFFICE BUILDINGS TO APARTMENTS, UM, OTHER BUILDINGS TO, YOU KNOW, OTHER USES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
WHEN, WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT OFFICE, THERE'S VERY LITTLE DEMAND.
AGAIN, THE CONVERSION MIXED USE IN THE EXISTING BUILDING.
SO IT'S NOT JUST AN OFFICE, IT'S, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO TALK ABOUT, HEY, WHAT CAN I DO ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR THAT'LL GET PEOPLE THERE AND THE OFFICE, UM, THE HYBRID WORKING AND SCHEDULING, I THINK THAT REALLY IMPACTS PARKING AND THAT REALLY IT IMPACTS OUR OFFICE PARK, BECAUSE NO LONGER IS IT EVERYBODY SHOWING UP AT EIGHT O'CLOCK MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY AND STAYING TILL FIVE O'CLOCK.
IT'S, YOU'RE THERE MONDAY, TUESDAY, MAYBE THURSDAY, MONDAY, FRIDAY, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
HOW HAS THAT SHAPED THE ENVIRONMENT OF OUR OFFICE PARKS AND THE DEMAND AND THE AREA WE HAVE ALLOCATED TO OFFICE PARKS? UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT RETAIL LIKE OFFICE, THERE'S VERY LITTLE DEMAND FOR LARGE SHOPPING CENTERS.
WE HAVE THE, UH, LOWE'S AND OR, AND LOWE'S AND, AND, UH, TARGET DOWN IN SOUTH PARK.
WE'VE GOT THE TARGET UP IN THE NORTH PART.
UM, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T SEE THOSE DEVELOPMENTS, YOU DON'T SEE DEVELOPMENTS LIKE THAT COMING IN ANYMORE.
THEY'RE HOLDING, OKAY, THEY'RE KEEPING THEIR TENANTS.
BUT LET'S LOOK AT, AT PROVINCE TOWN CENTER.
I MEAN THE, THE FORMER STAPLES THERE HAS BEEN EMPTY FOR FIVE YEARS NOW, SIX YEARS, EIGHT YEARS.
THEY FILLED IN A COUPLE TIMES WITH THE, THE, THE HALLOWEEN STORE, BUT THAT WASN'T EVEN THERE THIS YEAR.
NOW, IN MY MIND, MAYBE THAT MEANS THEY'RE BRINGING SOMEBODY IN AND THEY'RE WORKING ON THE, AND THEY'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING'S HAPPENING.
BUT AGAIN, IT IS, IT IS HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE LARGER RETAIL SPACES THAT ARE AVAILABLE? UM, WHAT CAN WE DO TO ENCOURAGE A MORE MIXED USE AND MORE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE SECOND FLOOR RESIDENTIAL AND RETAIL, AND HOW DO WE GET THAT? HOW DO WE GET A SYNERGY OF USES IN ONE AREA? SO WE TAKE THE BURDEN OFF OF OUR TRANSPORTATION NETWORK.
UM, ARE ANY OF THESE A DESTINATION? OBVIOUSLY PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER'S A DESTINATION.
I MEAN, THAT'S, IT'S, IT'S, YOU CAN GO AND YOU CAN WALK AROUND AND, AND THEN THE EXPO CENTER, THAT'S A DESTINATION.
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ARE AREAS THAT HAVE SOMETHING THAT DRAWS PEOPLE.THAT'S NOT JUST THE RETAIL PART OF IT.
INDUSTRIAL, THE, THE THINGS I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND ARE THAT THIS IS OUR LARGEST AVAILABLE AREA OF LAND.
I MEAN, IT'S EVERYTHING IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE TOWNSHIP IS ZONED INDUSTRIAL.
IS THAT WHERE WE WANT TO KEEP IT? IS THAT WHERE WE WANT THE LAND TO STAY AS AN INDUSTRIAL USE? AS IN, IN A LOT OF CASES IT'S, IT IS AN UNDERDEVELOPED USE WHERE IT'S NOT PICKING ON SHE AND TREE FARM, BUT SHE, AND TREE FARM IS NOT THE HIGHEST AND BEST USE OF THAT PROPERTY, EVEN FROM AN INDUSTRIAL STANDPOINT.
USE IT, IT, IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT WORKS WELL FOR THAT AREA, BUT AT SOME POINT, DOES THAT, DO WE ENCOURAGE SOMETHING ELSE? AND DO WE ENCOURAGE A DIFFERENT USE FOR THAT AREA? AND A LOT OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS TO OUR ROADS? WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS TO OUR, UM, TO OUR ENVIRONMENT? BECAUSE IF WE ENCOURAGE A LOT OF AMAZON WAREHOUSES, LET'S SAY, AND WE, WE MOVE FORWARD WITH MORE INDUSTRIAL, LARGE INDUSTRIAL SPACES, YOU'RE GONNA GET MORE LARGE INDUSTRIAL TRUCKS.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE GETTING INTO NEXT.
WHEN WE LOOK AT THE FUTURE LAND USE, AS WE TALKED ABOUT IT, I POINTED OUT GENERALLY SORT OF FIVE AREAS THAT ARE PROBABLY WHERE MOST DEVELOPMENT'S GONNA BE HAPPENING, WHERE MOST THINGS ARE GONNA BE HAPPENING IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
YOU'VE GOT THE RIDGE PIKE AREA UP THERE IN THE UPPER PORTION OF THE, OF THE MAP, SECOND AVENUE AND HAFNER ROAD DOWN AT THE BOTTOM LEFT, UM, RIGHT NEXT TO PARKHOUSE.
AND AGAIN, AS MUCH AS I KNOW THAT WE ALL WANT TO SEE WHAT THE, WHAT PARKHOUSE IS, IT'S AN EXISTING LAND DEVELOPMENT AT THIS POINT APPLICATION.
WE GOTTA HAVE TO LET IT BREATHE ON ITS OWN AND DO WHAT IT'S GONNA DO AND MOVE FORWARD.
AND WE CAN TACKLE THAT AND DISCUSS IT.
BUT IT IS, THERE'S NOT MUCH WE CAN CHANGE IN THE COMP PLAN AT THIS POINT ABOUT IT.
JEFF, HOW, HOW MUCH IN THE SECOND AVENUE HAFNER AREA DOWN THERE, DON'T THE POWER LINES EAT? HOW CLOSE ARE THEY? THEY EAT UP A GOOD PERCENTAGE OF IT.
AND THAT GOES BACK TO OUR DISCUSSION.
IT GOES BACK TO MY BULLET POINT OF THEY'RE SMALLER PARCELS, THEY'RE ENVIRONMENTALLY CONSTRAINED, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF PARCELS TOGETHER.
AND I'LL SHOW YOU WHEN WE GET TO THAT MAP, I ENLARGE YOU TO THESE SECTIONS AND TALK ABOUT THEM ON THE NEXT SLIDE.
UM, THE, THE LARGEST CIRCLE IS PROBABLY THE INTERCHANGE, THE ROUTE 29 INTERCHANGE.
AND AGAIN, WE'LL GET INTO THAT WHEN WE GET INTO THE SLIDE.
THEN THERE'S, UM, AND THAT BUBBLE'S A LITTLE SMALLER THAN YOU'LL SEE.
I MADE THE SLIDE LATER, BUT THE, THE BOTTOM LEFT IS, UH, THE END OF THE END OF LONGFORD ROAD.
IT'S A LARGE INDUSTRIAL PIECE NOW.
BUT IS THAT WHERE WE WANNA SEE IT REMAIN? IS THAT, IS THAT WHERE WE WOULD THINK THE LAND USE IS THE HIGHEST AND BEST USE FOR THE TOWNSHIP? AND THEN LAST BUT NOT LEAST IS THE, THE OAKS INTERCHANGE.
AND DOWN IN THESE BOTTOM RIGHT PORTION OF THE MAP, THE FUTURE LAND USE ALONG BRIDGE PIKE, WE KNOW WE HAVE ALONG BRIDGE PIKE, WE HAVE A COUPLE NICE SHOPPING CENTERS, A COUPLE WELL MAINTAINED SHOPPING CENTERS, WELL, UM, RENTED, I GUESS I, IF THAT'S THE WAY YOU'D TERM IT.
THERE'S NOT A LOT OF OPEN SPACE THAT EVEN IF THERE IS A, EVEN IF THERE IS ONE TENANT THAT GOES OUT AND SEEMS TO TURN OVER PRETTY QUICK.
I HEARD JUST THE OTHER DAY THAT WE WERE GETTING A PIZZA HU BACK IN THERE.
THEY WERE THERE FOR A WHILE, THEY LEFT AND NOW THEY'RE COMING BACK.
BUT, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S GREAT.
UM, SAME THING WITH THE, THE LYLE SHOPPING CENTER ON THE NORTH SIDE.
THERE'S ONE OR TWO OPEN SHOPS, BUT I KNOW THAT THERE'S STORES COMING INTO THOSE.
WE HAVE A LARGE AREA OF, OF VACANT SPACE.
DO I THINK IT'S GOING TO EVER DEVELOP INTO NC COMMERCIAL WHERE IT IS LARGE RETAIL? I, I JUST CAN'T SEE THAT HAPPENING.
WE WENT THROUGH THE, THE ISSUE WITH PULTE WHEN PULTE WANTED TO DEVELOP THE NEBRASKA SHAPED PIECE ON THE, ON THE RIGHT.
UM, I CAN'T REALLY GET A CURSOR THAT WELL, BUT THIS PIECE HERE, WHAT, WHAT, REMEMBER PULTE? YEAH.
REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO, I CAN REMEMBER THEY JUST WENT AWAY.
THEY, UM, THEY GOT NO TRACTION.
THEY TRIED TWICE TO GET THE ZONING CHANGE AT THE BOARD, AND THE BOARD GAVE THEM NO VOTE OR THE VOTE WASN'T GONNA GO THEIR WAY.
SO THEY WENT THROUGH THEIR APPLICATION.
WHO VACANT HOUSES ARE, RIGHT? THERE'S ONE VACANT HOUSE ON THE FRONT OF THE, UM, WHAT'S THE BROWN, JEFF? THAT'S POWER LINES, THAT'S UTILITIES.
SO IT IS, IT DOES HAVE SOME CONSTRAINTS 'CAUSE IT'S SEPARATED BY THOSE UTILITIES.
WHAT DO YOU I I I, ALL OF WHAT WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH TODAY IS I WANT TO GET THE FLAVOR OF WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION LIKES THERE, WHAT THEY THINK SHOULD STAY THERE.
AND IF THERE'S NO CHANGE, HEY, LET'S JUST SEE WHAT HAPPENS THEN.
SO, SO, SO THAT PULING PROP, GOING BACK TO THAT AGAIN.
SO THE ZONING BOARD, WHAT DID, WHAT, WHAT WAS THE, WHY DID THEY DENY? NO, IT WAS THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS NEVER FELT THAT THE, THEY MADE THE CASE THAT REZONING TO RESIDENTIAL TO A PURE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT WAS BENEFICIAL.
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SO, SO YOU STILL WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT BE SOME COMMERCIAL PROBLEM? YOU CAN INTERPRET THAT.UH, YOU KNOW, I, I CAN'T READ THEIR MINDS, BUT GENERALLY I THINK THAT THERE WAS, AND MAYBE IT WASN'T EVEN SO MUCH THAT IT WAS, THAT THE ONE, THE PROPOSAL THEY HAD DIDN'T DO MUCH.
I MEAN, SOMETIMES IT'S JUST MORE HOUSES.
YOU CAN PUT IN A TRAIL HERE OR A CLUBHOUSE OR A POOL OR A BRIDGE OR SOMETHING.
BUT IT'S STILL JUST MORE HOUSES, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, AS WE TALKED ABOUT, I LIKE TO THINK OF THINGS IN TERMS OF A, OF A SYNERGY OF USES.
I MEAN, MAYBE WE LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, LIKE WITH THE YERKES MIXED USE, IT'S LONG 29, PUTTING SOME MIXED USE IN THERE AND ENCOURAGING APARTMENTS ABOVE THE TOP.
YOU'RE, EVERY CALL I GET IS, HEY, I WANNA PUT APARTMENTS IN THIS SITE.
HEY, I WANNA PUT APARTMENTS IN THAT SITE.
I KNOW IT'S ONLY TWO ACRES, BUT CAN I PUT 10 APARTMENTS IN IT? YOU KNOW, IT IS.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT I WANT TO CATER TO EVERY APARTMENT PERSON OUT THERE.
I REALLY DON'T THINK THAT'S IN OUR BEST INTEREST.
BUT IF MOVING FORWARD IT CREATES SOMETHING HERE THAT, THAT MIGHT WORK OR A, YOU KNOW, SOME SORT OF HYBRID IN THIS AREA.
YOU ALSO HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION EVERYTHING ON THE SOUTH SIDE BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S THE, UH, THE KEHOE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S CURRENTLY STILL HELD UP IN COURT.
AND THE, THE STUFF THAT'S SORT OF IN A, IN THAT PINKISH COLOR, UM, THAT'S WELL UNDERDEVELOPED LAND.
I MEAN, IT IS, THERE'S A TREE FARM.
THERE'S, UM, THE, THE, THE LANDSCAPING COMPANY THAT'S IN THERE, THOSE ARE COMPANIES THAT IF THEY GET THE RIGHT OFFER, THEY'RE OUT AN HOUR.
AND AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS TODAY.
THESE ARE, I'M GONNA POSE A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS TO YOU AND I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT 'EM, AND I'LL GET YOU THIS PRESENT PRESENTATION SO IT CAN REFRESH YOUR MEMORY.
AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING WE CAN TALK ABOUT.
AND THE WHOLE LAST PART OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS WHAT IS THE LAND USE PLAN? WHAT DO YOU WANNA SEE THERE? AND I CERTAINLY HAVE MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION AND I WILL CERTAINLY GIVE IT TO YOU, BUT I WANNA SEE WHERE YOU FALL WITH THESE THINGS.
SO, UH, I HAPPEN TO BE WORKING OVER IN LIMERICK TOWNSHIP, AND I GO PAST THAT, BOTH THOSE SHOPPING CENTERS ON BOTH SIDES OF RIDGE LAKE EVERY DAY.
AND I SEE THOSE VACANT PARCELS, YOU KNOW, AND, AND THE DEMAND FOR APARTMENTS, RIGHT? I MEAN, AND YOU'RE GETTING THE PHONE CALLS, BUT YOU KNOW, IN PHOENIX AND SO FORTH, IT'S SUCH A NICE SHOPPING CENTER AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WALKABLE COMMUNITIES.
I MEAN, IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT A, A DENSE APARTMENT COMPLEX FOR EITHER SENIORS OR, I KNOW WORKFORCE HOUSING SEEMS TO BE THE, THE WORD OR THE DEVELOPMENT YOUR, YOU KNOW, THAT WE NEED.
I MEAN, TO ME THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO, TO CREATE THAT WALKABLE COMMUNITY RIGHT THERE WHERE YOU HAVE THAT NICE SHOPPING CENTER WITH ALL, ALL RETAIL USES IN THERE.
WHEN YOU SAY WALKABLE THOUGH, BILL, I MEAN, WELL, YOU'D HAVE TO CREATE A A, YOU KNOW, YEAH.
YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE SOME WAY TO GET A CROSS RIDGE BIKE.
RIGHT? WELL, CROSSING THE STREET IS, IS CERTAINLY A CHALLENGE, BUT CERTAINLY ONE RIGHT.
IN PART RIDICULOUS THE SMALLER CENTER.
I MEAN, I, I, THERE HAVE BEEN I THINK TWO FATALITIES IN THIS AREA OF RIDGE, AND THERE WAS ANOTHER ACCIDENT THERE THIS MORNING.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS A FATALITY THIS MORNING, BUT I KNOW, I KNOW OF TWO FATALITIES THAT HAVE HAPPENED ON THAT, UM, ON THAT SECTION OF ROAD.
NOT SAYING THAT, AND MAYBE THAT'S A CONSIDERATION.
MAYBE THAT AREA NEEDS TO GO ON, ON ANTHONY'S ROAD DIET AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO LOOK AT HOW DO WE SLOW TRAFFIC DOWN AND HOW DO WE MAKE IT MORE VISIBLE IN THERE? CAN I MM-HMM,
I MEAN, RIDGE PIKE IS RIGHT NOW WITH ALL THAT RETAIL, WHATEVER.
I MEAN, IF YOU PUT A WHOLE BUNCH OF APARTMENTS IN THERE, YOU JUST CREATE A WHOLE LOT MORE TRAFFIC ISSUES THAN GETTING ACROSS BRIDGE PIKE FOR THE PEOPLE.
I MEAN, THAT TO ME IS, IS A BIG CONCERN JUST BECAUSE OF THE DENSITY OF WHAT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT BE THERE IN TERMS OF APARTMENT COMPLEXES.
JUST CO HEY, QUESTION, BIG PICTURE.
WHAT IS THE DRAW THAT THOSE WHO WANT TO DEVELOP APARTMENTS, IS THERE A HUGE DEMAND FOR RESIDENTS TO MOVE INTO THIS TOWNSHIP? AND WHAT IS THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THAT POTENTIAL CUSTOMER? I, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE DEMOGRAPHICS.
I MEAN, I, I MEAN IS IT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT? IS IT, IT IS, IS IT THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM WITH AGE? I MEAN, WHAT IT, IT IS SCHOOL DISTRICT.
IT IS PROXIMITY TO 4 22 THAT YOU CAN GET EAST AND WEST RELATIVELY QUICK ON 4 22.
IT IS THAT THIS TOWNSHIP IS RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVE TO LIVE IN.
I MEAN, I KNOW THAT THE PROVINCE CENTER APARTMENT, SOME OF THOSE
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RENTS ARE GOING FOR $3,000, BUT IT'S NOT KING OF PRUSSIA.YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE DENSITY OF APARTMENTS LIKE YOU ARE IN KING OF PRUSSIA.
SO I, I THINK EVERYTHING IS SORT OF SPILLING OUT FROM PHOENIXVILLE AND KING OF PRUSSIA.
AND I, I THINK THAT THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF, YOU KNOW, WHO IS THE POTENTIAL FUTURE RESIDENCE.
'CAUSE I CAN SPEAK, MY MOTHER LIVES IN NEW YORK AND SHE CAME DOWN, SHE'S LIKE, I'M INTERESTED.
AND SHE SAID, NO, THIS IS TOO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE IN AN APARTMENT.
SO I'M JUST THINKING LIKE, IS IT, IS IT SINGLE FAMILIES? IS IT YOUNG, YOU KNOW, WORKERS WHO ARE LOOKING TO FOR A COMMUTE, BECAUSE THAT WILL DRIVE THE FUTURE.
RESIDENTS DEMOGRAPHICS WILL DRIVE WHAT THIS TOWNSHIP SHOULD HAVE.
AND, AND I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT OUR AGE, OUR AGE SKEWS LATE.
OUR AGE SKEWS IN, IN THE FIFTIES AND SIXTIES.
AT THIS POINT, WE'RE LOW IN THE, IN THE FRONT HALF OF IT.
MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO CONSIDER, THAT THAT APARTMENTS ARE GOING TO DRIVE A YOUNGER, YOUNGER PROFESSIONAL RESIDENT AT THIS POINT.
AND THE OTHER, THE OPPOSITE END OF THE SPECTRUM, THE OLDER RESIDENT THAT WANTS TO GET OUT OF THEIR HOUSE AND NOT HAVE ANY, YOU KNOW, NOT, THEY'RE NOT, THEY DON'T WANNA LIVE IN AN OLD FOLKS HOME.
THEY DON'T WANNA LIVE IN A NURSING HOME, BUT THEY DON'T WANNA LIVE IN A, IN A PLACE WHERE THEY HAVE TO MOW THEIR YARD OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
AND I THINK THAT'S THE DEMOGRAPHICS THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT WITH THE APARTMENTS THAT ARE COMING IN NOW.
NOW THERE'S A, I THINK THAT YOU COULD SAY THERE'S PROBABLY A DISTINCT JUST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE PHOENIXVILLE APARTMENTS VERSUS THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIVE IN, UM, IN PROVINCETOWN CENTER APARTMENTS OR APARTMENTS ALONG RIDGE PIKE.
BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S AN URBAN CORE TO PHOENIXVILLE THAT YOU'RE NOT GETTING HERE.
SO IT'S PROBABLY LIKE A STEP DOWN IN TERMS OF HOW DENSE AND HOW HECTIC YOU WANT, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM.
I, AND I DON'T WANT TO GET AHEAD OF IT, JUST DREW A QUICK, BUT IS IT POTENTIAL THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ALL THESE, THESE OTHER AREAS, THAT THE NEED FOR DENSITY IN APARTMENTS MAY BE A DIFFERENT DRAW IN THE DIFFERENT PARTS OF OUR TOWNSHIP? ABSOLUTELY.
WE WILL TALK ABOUT THE, THE INTERCHANGE OF 29.
I MEAN, I'LL, I'LL BURY THE LEAD A LITTLE BIT.
THE INTERCHANGE OF 29 AND, AND 4 22, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S WHERE WE ALREADY HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE.
THE ISSUE IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE, THE LAND, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S THE, THE APARTMENTS, THEY'RE GOING IN THERE NOW, BUT THERE'S THREE BUILDINGS.
THERE'S 200 AND 400 CAMPUS DRIVE, WHICH IS ONE, TWO BUILDINGS.
BUT IT'S REALLY ONE SORT OF COMPLEX, THERE'S 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE AND THERE'S THE QUEST BUILDING THE BUILDING RIGHT HERE ON THE CORNER.
THEY'RE ALL EMPTY OR VERY, VERY CLOSE TO EMPTY.
THEY, I, I THINK IF WE PUT THE ZONING IN PLACE TOMORROW, WE WOULD GET A PROPOSAL AND ONE OF THOSE BUILDINGS WOULD PROBABLY SELL TO CONVERT.
NOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CONVERT AN EXISTING OFFICE BUILDING INTO 200 APARTMENTS AND HOW YOU ADD 200 BATHROOMS, THE 200 EDS TO A BUILDING.
I, I JUST, I THINK YOU HAVE TO GUT THE WHOLE BUILDING AND START FROM SCRATCHING THE INTERIOR.
I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT.
BUT IF WE MADE THAT EASY FOR THEM, IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WOULD COME IS THE ANSWER TO THAT BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS IN PLACE THERE IN A PLACE LIKE THIS, MORE INFRASTRUCTURE WOULD HAVE TO BE IN PLACE.
RIDGE PIKE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT THE INTERSECTION OF TOWNSHIP LINE AND, AND, AND RIDGE WOULD'VE TO BE LOOKED AT THE INTERSECTION OF BUCK WALTER AND TOWNSHIP LINE WOULD HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT.
I MEAN THAT'S A DISASTER TODAY.
I AVOID THAT INTERSECTION LIKE THE PLAGUE ON THE WEEKENDS.
'CAUSE IT IS BACK, IT BACKS UP AND YOU KNOW THAT THAT'S GONNA BE AN IMPACT.
SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT MAYBE THAT'S WHY THIS AREA ISN'T THE BEST FOR THAT.
THAT'S MY CONCERN WITH THIS AREA.
I DON'T WANT TO ADD ANY MORE TRAFFIC TO RIDGE PIKE IN THAT AREA.
I DON'T SEE MORE TRAFFIC IN THAT AREA.
I DON'T WANT IT TO BECOME LIKE WHEN YOU GET DOWN THERE, YOU TO SIGN THIS IN THAT PART OF COLLEGEVILLE WHERE YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE STOP, YOU STOP AGAIN, THAT PART OF RIDGE, YOU CAN STILL MOVE, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU GET PAST TOWNSHIP LINE, YOU CAN STILL MOVE DOWN RIDGE PRETTY QUICKLY UNTIL YOU GET DOWN INTO TRAP.
WE KNOW YOU DON'T GO PAST THE TRAP OFF 'EM, YOU STAFF.
WELL, I STOP IN THERE ALL THE TIME, BUT YEAH.
BUT, BUT, UH, I, I JUST, I WOULD NEED TO SEE, UH, APARTMENT COMPLEXES WHERE WE'RE ADDING TRAFFIC AND CONGESTION AND RED LIGHTS OR RED LIGHTS OR LONGER RED LIGHTS.
I DON'T, I, I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE.
I THINK, I THINK, I THINK ANYTHING WE DO IN THIS TOWNSHIP, NO MATTER WHERE YOU, ONE OF THESE FIVE THINGS YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO POINT OUT HERE TONIGHT, I THINK TRAFFIC HAS TO BE A CONCERN.
I THINK TRAFFIC HAS TO BE OUR FIRST, YOU KNOW, HOW'S IT GONNA AFFECT THE TRAFFIC? LIKE YOU JUST SAID, THERE'S ALREADY INTERSECTIONS THAT WE ALL TRY TO AVOID AND THAT'S NOT GONNA GET BETTER IF, AS WE LOOK TO FILL IN THESE BLANKS.
SO I I THINK MOVING FORWARD ON THIS ONE, I MEAN, AND AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE TO NAME SPECIFICALLY ANY USES.
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HOME DEPOT SHOULD GO HERE OR IT SHOULD BE SPECIFICALLY THIS OR SPECIFICALLY THAT WE CAN SAY YOU LOOK FOR USES THAT, THAT COMPLIMENT THE EXISTING USES IN THE AREA AND DON'T, OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE GONNA ADD TRAFFIC AND THEN YOU BUILD SOMETHING VERSUS AN EMPTY FIELD.BUT THAT DON'T OVERLY IMPACT THE TRAFFIC FROM, YOU KNOW, AND WE WILL WORK THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE OUT SO SURE, SURE.
THINK ABOUT THAT AND, AND WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT.
ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT WHEN I LOOK AT THIS KIND OF STUFF, MY FIRST THING I LOOK AT IS TRAFFIC.
HOW'S IT GONNA IMPACT MOVING THROUGH THE TOWNSHIP? AND THAT'S THE FIRST THING I TRY MAKING ANTHONY'S DECK.
HEY JEFF, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, UH, OBVIOUSLY EVERYTHING TO THE NORTH OF THAT IS LIMERICK TOWNSHIP.
OUR PLANNERS TALK WITH THE LIMERICK TOWNSHIP SOMEWHAT.
I KNOW GRETA, I MEAN WE HAVE SOME CONVERSATIONS.
UM, NO COMMITTEES OR THERE'S NO, I MEAN WE HAD SOME INFORMAL DISCUSSIONS.
I DID A A A PER AND VALLEY CHAMBER OF COMMERCE SPEECH WITH SOMEBODY FROM THEIR TOWNSHIP A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.
THEY ARE PRETTY INSULAR OVER THERE.
THEY TEND TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO AND THEY DON'T WORRY SO MUCH ABOUT WHAT ANYBODY ELSE IS DOING.
'CAUSE YOU KNOW, FROM THAT
BIG FOR SIGNS ON, BIG PARCEL ON HOW DO YOU HAVE APARTMENTS ANYWHERE THOUGH WITHOUT ADDING TO TRAFFIC? WELL, AND WE'RE, WE COULD USE, THERE'S AREAS THAT CAN HANDLE THE TRAFFIC.
SHE SAID, HOW DO YOU PUT APARTMENTS ANYWHERE WITHOUT, IN THE TRAFFIC? WELL, SURE, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT.
AND I'M NOT SAYING, YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA BAN ALL APARTMENTS, BUT, YOU KNOW, I, THAT'S THE FIRST THING I LOOK AT.
WHAT IS THE IMPACT OF THAT PROCESS? THERE'S, THERE'S, JUST FROM A TRAFFIC STANDPOINT, THERE'S AREAS THAT CAN HANDLE IT BETTER.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IS WHAT AREAS CAN HANDLE IT BETTER.
I'M JUST WONDERING AFFORDABILITY TOO.
'CAUSE I THINK RIGHT NOW A LOT OF PEOPLE, LIKE WE HAVE PEOPLE IN MEADOWS, IF THEY HAVE TO MOVE SOMEWHERE, THERE'S NO PLACE THEY CAN AFFORD.
WELL, THEY MAY HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY UP TO PAST TOWN.
I MEAN REALLY IN CHESTER CITRUS CITY.
AND THIS IS KIND OF, SO JEFF, WE'RE WE'RE STILL ON THAT FIRST, THE FIRST SECTOR.
WE TALKED ABOUT RETAIL AND OFFICE SPACE.
THE ONE THING THAT WASN'T BROUGHT UP, AND I JUST, IT COMES TO MIND AS WE GO TO EACH SECTORS, IS WHAT'S THE PURVIEW OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION REGARDING FUTURE RECREATIONAL AREAS THAT EITHER THE TOWNSHIP OWNS OR THINGS THAT WE THINK SHOULD BE PART OF THE TOWNSHIP FOR THE RESIDENTS TO UTILIZE.
IF THERE'S AREAS THAT, THAT YOU SEE, UH, IT IS A MULTI-LAYER QUESTION.
IF YOU SEE AREAS THAT YOU THINK THE TOWNSHIP SHOULD LOOK AT PURCHASING IN TERMS OF TO HAVE OPEN SPACE TO ADDITIONAL OPEN SPACE, CERTAINLY WE CAN PUT THAT IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND LET THE BOARD SUPERVISORS SEE IF THEY CAN EVER GET TO THAT POINT IN TERMS OF FINDING THE MONEY AND FINDING THE WAY TO DO IT.
UM, IN TERMS OF USING EXISTING AREAS AND HOW THEY'RE USED, YOU'RE BETTER TO GO TO THE PARK BOARD MEETINGS AND TALK TO THE PARK BOARD AND WORK.
'CAUSE THEY HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN SORT OF PARK PLAN AND, AND THEY'RE, THEY HAVE SOME PLANS TO DEVELOP SOME OF THEIR EXISTING FACILITIES.
UM, I THINK SUE IS ALWAYS OPEN TO IDEAS AND ALWAYS OPEN TO, YOU KNOW, WAYS OF UTILIZING THE OPEN SPACES THAT WE ALREADY OWN.
BECAUSE I, I THINK TO ALL OF US IN THE STAFF LEVEL, WE ALL AGREE THAT EVERYTHING WE HAVE IS UNDERUTILIZED AND IS NOT ORGANIZED AS WELL AS IT SHOULD BE.
SO JUST FROM A BIG PICTURE, ANY LAND THAT THE TOWNSHIP OWNS, THE UTILIZATION OF THAT SHOULD FALL UNDER THE PARKS DEPARTMENT.
I MEAN, UNLESS IT'S THE, THE PUBLIC WORKS FACILITY BACK HERE OR THE, THE, THE COMPOST YARD THAT THOSE FALL UNDER PUBLIC WORKS.
WHEN WE HAVE LIKE A SMALL ACRE THAT'S SORT OF A, JUST SORT OF A, A DRAINAGE AREA THAT TENDS TO FALL UNDER PUBLIC WORKS.
NOW, IF THERE'S SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO DO THERE AND DIDN'T INTERFERE WITH WHATEVER MAINTENANCE OR WHATEVER STORMWATER CONTROL HAD ON THERE, LIKE THE MINGO BASIN, YOU LIVE BY THE MINGO BASIN, YOU KNOW THAT ONE, I MEAN, IF YOU WANTED TO USE THAT FOR SOMETHING, I I THINK WE COULD ARRANGE IT.
I THINK WE COULD TALK ABOUT IT BETWEEN PARKS, PUBLIC WORKS AND, AND FIGURE SOMETHING OUT.
NOBODY'S EVER REALLY APPROACHED THE TOWNSHIP ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
YEAH, ANYTIME WE, WE, WE, WE ALL, WE ALL DINNER WORK PRETTY WELL TOGETHER.
AND IF THERE'S A QUESTION, YOU KNOW, TOM WILL COME INTO MY OFFICE AND WE'LL WORK IT OUT.
SUE TOM AND I SIT AROUND AND TALK ABOUT IT.
SO IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU SEE AS A RECOMMENDATION, LET US KNOW.
WE'LL TRY TO WORK THROUGH THE PROCESS.
UM, SPEAKING OF THE MANGO BASIN AND, AND, UM, THE SECOND AVENUE, THIS AREA, LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT IS, IS A LOT OF PARCELS THAT WOULD SORT OF BE, WOULD HAVE TO BE PUT TOGETHER, UM, WOULD HAVE TO BE
[00:25:01]
COMBINED TO MAKE ANY SORT OF USEFUL DEVELOPMENT.YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS, YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF, UM, UH, PHYSICAL CONSTRAINTS FOR THE POWER LINES.
FROM MY STANDPOINT, IF I WAS GONNA MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON THIS, I WOULD SAY LEAVE IT AS R ONE ZONING AND UM, DO WHAT YOU CAN TO STRENGTHEN THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROLS IN THE AREA IN TERMS OF STEEP SLOPES, IN TERMS OF WETLANDS PRESERVATION, THINGS LIKE THAT.
YES, IT'S GONNA LIMIT THE DEVELOPMENT HERE, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS AN AREA FROM A TOWNSHIP'S PERSPECTIVE THAT WE WANT TO SEE A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT.
WELL, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S AN INFRASTRUCTURE PROBLEM.
AGAIN, YOU TALKING ABOUT TRAFFIC THAT THE ROADS DOWN THERE ARE AREN'T GOOD.
BUT THEN SECOND AVENUE IS NOT THAT GREAT.
JUST TO BE A DEVIL'S ADVOCATE WITH THIS.
IF PARKHOUSE, IF PARKHOUSE DEVELOPS IN ANY SENSE OF THE WORD I, I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT RANGE OR WHAT IF IT DEVELOPS IN ANY SENSE OF THE WORD, THERE'S GONNA BE DEVELOPMENT PRESSURE ON THESE PARCELS TO, TO MOVE FORWARD.
BUT I JUST SAY, I, I'M JUST SAYING AGAIN, I LOOK AT THAT FIRST THING I LOOK AT IS THE TRAFFIC IN THAT ROAD, SECOND AVENUE TO PARK OUT, YOU KNOW, DOWN TO THE PARKHOUSE.
IT'S PRETTY, IT'S A PRETTY NARROW BAD PIECE OF ROAD.
IT'S NOT A VERY, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH TRAFFIC IT GET.
DOES ANYBODY SEE ANY OTHER, I MEAN, OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT IT MEAN THIS ONE, THIS ONE'S, BECAUSE IT'S A LARGE AREA OF OPEN SPACE, YOU HAVE TO REPORT IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
I DON'T THINK THAT THE DECISIONS ABOUT THIS ONE ARE AS DIFFICULT TO SOME OF THE OTHER ONES.
YOU CAN'T SPEAK TO THIS, YOU DON'T LIVE ANYWHERE IN THE AREA.
PARDON ME,
YEAH, FORGET ABOUT THAT LODGE.
BUT, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, WE WERE TALKING AT THE EAC ABOUT, UH, CIRCUIT TRAILS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH AND YOU KNOW, WITH THE SCHULL RIVER TRAIL, WELL IT'S THE, THE BRANCH THAT'S ON OUR SIDE OF THE RIVER MM-HMM.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY PERHAPS TO BRING A TRAIL THROUGH THOSE UNDEVELOPED PROPERTIES ON SOME OF MY NEIGHBORS THERE OVER TO THAT GREEN PIECE THAT I BELIEVE THE TOWNSHIP BONES, CORRECT? MM-HMM.
AND THEN LOOP DOWN TO THAT MINGO BASIN AND DOWN ACROSS RIGHT OF THIS ROAD AND BACK TO ONE 13 TO UH, TO THAT TRAILER THAT, AND AS AJ POINTED OUT, OR AS AJ ASKED, IF THIS IS AN AREA WHERE YOU WANT THE TOWNSHIP TO LOOK AT CONSERVATION AND PURE PRESERVATION, IT IS, THAT IS A VIABLE LAND USE AS ANY OTHER, AND AGAIN, WE'RE NOT MAKING DECISIONS TONIGHT AND WE DON'T NEED FORMAL MOTIONS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT ON IT.
BUT THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER FOR THIS AREA TO SAY, HEY LOOK, LET'S LOOK AT PURCHASING THESE PROPERTIES FROM THESE PRIVATE LANDOWNERS AND SEE WHAT THAT TAKES.
THOSE GUYS ARE READING HERE NOT TOO LONG AGO RIGHT.
THAT GENTLEMAN WAS IN THE ONE THAT BUILT THE HOUSE ON THE OTHER SIDE HERE.
YEAH, HE'S BUILT THAT HOUSE AND YEAH, HE BUILT THAT HOUSE, BUT HE OWNS EVERYTHING IN THE NORTH SIDE.
HE OWNS EVERYTHING UP ON THIS IS HUNTING GROUNDS.
UM, IT INCLUDE THE, UH, THE BIG WHITE SPACE EAST, UM, PICO THERE KIND OF SQUARE IT'S THAT'S ON HANER ROAD.
YOU YOU OWNS THAT AS WELL? NO, NO, NO.
UH, HE OWNS BOTH SIDES OF, OF SECOND AVENUE.
IT IS LIKE THE YELLOW PIECE AND THE PIECE BELOW THAT.
SO THE, THE DARK GRAY RECTANGLE, I'M THINKING SOUTH OF THAT.
BUTTS UP AGAINST MY NEIGHBORS.
IS IS THAT PRIVATELY OWNED? THE DARK GRAY PIECE IS OWNED BY PICO.
NO, THE THE WHITE BELOW THE WHITE BELOW THAT.
I THINK THE SHEETS FAMILY OWNS THAT.
THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S THAT POTENTIAL OF CONNECTING IT INTO COUNTRY RIDGE.
AND THAT, AND THAT'S PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT PRESSURE.
PART OF IT IS, IS THERE'S, AS WE RUN OUT OF PROPERTIES TO DEVELOP, SOMEONE'S GONNA BE ABLE TO GO TO THAT PROPERTY AND THEY'RE GONNA BE IN A POSITION WHERE THEY GO, I'M READY TO SELL BECAUSE I WANNA RETIRE OR I WANT TO, I'M, I'M TIRED OF BEING IN THIS TOWNSHIP, YOU KNOW? YEAH.
NOW
WE HAVE THE, THE NORTH OF PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
THAT'S THE LARGE WHITE PIECE THAT'S THERE.
THE BIG, YOU SEE THE BIG RED BEAST, THAT'S PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
THEN YOU'VE GOT THE, THE LARGE WHITE PIECE ON THE TOP OF IT.
NOW EVERY TIME I TALK TO BRAD MACY FROM AUDUBON LAND, I'M LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THIS, BRAD? YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A PLAN.
THEY WON'T COP TO ANYTHING AT THIS POINT.
IT ZONED AS INTERCHANGE OFFICE CAN REALLY BE ONLY USED AS OFFICE BY OUR ZONING.
YOU CAN'T EVEN CREATIVELY READ THE ORDINANCE TO EXPAND RETAIL ACROSS THE STREET.
IT REALLY IS LOCKED INTO BEING OFFICE USES.
IT'S GONNA BE A LONG TIME BEFORE THAT COMES BACK BECAUSE YOU GOT A LOT OF OFFICES ACROSS
[00:30:01]
THE ROAD, RIGHT? YEAH.IN THAT LIGHT PINK PART ON THE, ON THE, ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF 29, YOU HAVE 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE.
AND FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE HAS ANOTHER BUILDING THEY CAN BUILD.
I HAVEN'T GONE BACK TO LOOK AT THE PLANS, BUT THEY SAY THEY HAVE MORE DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITY ON THEIR PARCEL.
THE COMPANY ABOVE PFIZER THINKS, I'M NOT SAYING THEY'RE WRONG.
THEY THINK THEY HAVE A MILLION MORE SQUARE FEET OF OFFICE SPACE THAT THEY CAN BUILD THERE.
I HAVEN'T SEEN A DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR IT.
AND I, I LOOK BACK AT THE 1972 PLAN, THAT DOESN'T REALLY HELP ME OUT MUCH.
BUT YOU, I'M SORRY YOU SAID THAT REAL FAST AND I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.
DID PFIZER SOLD THAT PROPERTY? PFIZER, YES.
PFIZER, UM, SOLD THE PROPERTY TO, I, I THINK, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE COMPANY THAT, THAT OWNS IT NOW.
IT'S A, IT IS A REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY.
REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT COMPANY.
AND THEY, PFIZER LEASES THE PROPERTY BACK.
PFIZER GOT TO THE POINT TO WHERE THEY WERE LEASING OUT TO DOW TO LONG AND FOSTER TO A COUPLE OTHERS.
AND I DON'T THINK THEY EVER THOUGHT THAT THEY WANTED TO BE IN THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT BUSINESS.
SO THEY GOT OUT OF IT AND LEAVE BACK THEIR PROPERTY.
THEY GOT OUT OF IT, JUST LEASE IT LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.
THEY DON'T HAVE MUCH LEFT THERE, RIGHT? NO, THEY REALLY DON'T.
AND, AND UM, I THINK THAT LAPS MAYBE AND, AND, AND THAT'S THE QUESTION IS, IS DO WE HAVE ENOUGH OTHER AREA OF OFFICE SPACE THAT WE COULD CONSIDER? NOT THERE'S KEL WILLIAMS IS THERE NOW.
AND THEN YOU HAVE, SO, SO, BUT BEFORE YOU GO ON, SO THAT MAKES THAT WHITE AREA NOT VERY ATTRACTIVE.
SO THE, THE ONLY THING ATTRACTIVE, THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES IT ATTRACTIVE IS THAT YOU'RE BUILDING FROM SCRATCH.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE DOWN AN EXISTING BUILDING.
THE ISSUE YOU'RE GONNA RUN INTO WITH OFFICE SPACE, IF, IF EVERYTHING EXPLODES IN 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE SUDDENLY BECOMES AN OFFICE.
AGAIN, IT'S NOT CLASS A OFFICE SPACE NOW IT'S PROBABLY NOT GONNA BE CLASS A OFFICE SPACE IN FIVE YEARS.
SOMEONE BUYING NEW OFFICES IS GONNA ONE CLASS A OFFICE SPACE, WHATEVER THAT IS DEFINED THAT AT THE TIME.
SO MORE THAN LIKELY YOU'RE GONNA BUILD NEW BEFORE YOU USE THE EXISTING.
THE ONLY PLACE YOU CAN BUILD NEW IS EITHER ON THE PFIZER CAMPUS, IF THAT'S TRUE.
WHERE THEY SAY WITH A MILLION MORE SQUARE FEET OR NORTH OF, OF APOLLO ROAD.
THAT COMES BACK TO THE THING WHERE NOBODY'S LOOKING FOR HIGH-END OFFICE SPACE ANYWAY.
IN FACT, IF ANYTHING, THEY'RE LOOKING TO RUN AWAY FROM IT.
PLUS YOU GOT THE QUEST BUILDING, RIGHT? AND THE QUEST BUILDING IS NOW EMPTY.
NICOLE'S GONNA PUT SCHOOL IN THERE.
I THINK THEY CHOSE SOMEBODY AS OF LAST WEEK.
SO WHEN YOU HAD SAID FELT SOME FIRST ROUND DIDN'T GO WELL? NO, THAT FIRST ROUND DIDN'T GO WELL FOR THEM AT ALL.
THEY, THEY WENT THROUGH A, WHAT THEY CALL HIGHEST AND BEST OFFER WHERE THEY BASICALLY SAID, EVERYBODY PUT YOUR OFFERS IN ON THIS CERTAIN DATE.
I WAS GETTING PHONE CALLS EVERY DAY BEFORE THAT DATE.
OH, CAN WE DO THIS HERE? OH, CAN WE DO THIS? HOW EASY WILL IT BE TO GET THIS USE IN THERE? YOU KNOW, I I DIDN'T REALLY GIVE ANYBODY ANY SPECIFIC ANSWERS 'CAUSE I'M NOT THE ONE VOTING ON IT.
THEY WENT THROUGH HIGHEST AND BEST.
I GOT A PHONE CALL THE NEXT TUESDAY FROM SOMEONE WHO'S DONE DEVELOPMENT IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD AND HE SAID, WELL, I'M THINKING I'M PUTTING A SERVER FARM THERE.
I'M LIKE, I THOUGHT, I THINK YOU'RE A COUPLE DAYS LATE.
UM, AND HE SAID, NO, NONE OF NONE OF THE OFFERS WERE HIGHEST AND NONE OF 'EM WERE THE BEST.
SO I, I GOT A COUPLE MORE PHONE CALLS A WEEK OR TWO LATER.
DID YOU, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE PROPOSALS? JUST GENERAL, EVERYTHING FROM A SERVER FARM.
SO IT'S BASICALLY LIKE A BIG COMPUTERIZED WAREHOUSE.
YOU KNOW, THE BUILDING THAT THEY BUILT IN FRONT OF, UH, QUEST DIAGNOSTICS RIGHT THERE AT 10 AT TROUTMAN AND BLACKROCK ROAD.
THAT BUILDING THEY BUILT ON THE OUTSIDE SURROUNDED BY FENCE.
UM, NO I DON'T THAT'S ALRIGHT.
THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT BUILDING IS BASICALLY A SERVER FARM.
THEY BASICALLY JUST COMPUTERS IN THERE.
I THINK A BUILDING THAT SIZE TAKES ABOUT 20 EMPLOYEES AND ALL THEY DO IS THEY JUST RUN AND MONITOR THE COMPUTER EQUIPMENT IN THERE.
AND I THINK MOST OF THAT COMPUTER EQUIPMENT IS TIED TO WHAT'S GOING ON IN GLAXO.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE SERVER FARM WOULD BE FOR BLACKROCK AND 29 GL.
I HAD LAND, I HAD, UM, SELF STORAGE TAKING, CUTTING THE BUILDING AND CONVERTING IT.
I HAD APARTMENTS, I HAD RETAIL.
I ALMOST HAD NICOLE'S TRADER JOE.
UM, YOU KNOW, THERE, SO A WIDE VARIETY OF USES.
SO, YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN WITH EVERYBODY I SAID, YOU NEED TO PUT, YOU NEED TO GET A HOLD OF THE PROPERTY OR AT LEAST UNDER SOME AGREEMENT AND BRING IN A PLAN AND WE CAN WORK YOU THROUGH THE PROCESS.
BUT THEY HAVE TO GET THE PROPERTY FIRST, BUT THEY HAVE TO GET THE PROPERTY FIRST.
THEY CAN'T JUST COME IN AND MAKE A PROPOSAL.
AND THEN IF WE SAY THAT, I MEAN YOU HAVE, BASICALLY THE WAY IT WORKS IS YOU HAVE IT UNDER AGREEMENT,
[00:35:01]
RIGHT.AND THEN YOU PAY A CONTINGENCY UNTIL, AND, AND THE ISSUE HERE IS THIS AREA IS PROBABLY THE BEST SUITED FOR AN INCREASE IN TRAFFIC AS IT STANDS TODAY.
BECAUSE OUR COAL ROAD IS UNDERUTILIZED.
UM, BOTH ENDS OF OUR COAL ROADS ARE UNDERUTILIZED.
I HAD A, A RESIDENT COME IN AND WAS TALKING TO ME ABOUT WHITE SPRINGS FARM AND SHE SAID, YOU KNOW, I REALLY HAVE TO COMPLIMENT YOU.
THAT ROUNDABOUT REALLY SLOWED TRAFFIC DOWN.
IT'S A LOT SLOWER ON OUR COLOR ROAD NOW THAN IT WAS BEFORE.
AND I WAS LIKE, WELL THAT WAS OUR HOPE.
SO IT'S GOOD TO, GOOD TO HEAR AT LEAST ONE PERSON SAY IT.
SO, YOU KNOW, ANY SORT OF DENSITY IN THERE IS GONNA HELP SUPPORT THE RES THE, THE RETAIL AND BRING BETTER RETAIL AND MORE RETAIL INTO THE TOWN CENTER.
SO AGAIN, NO DECISIONS HAVE TO BE MADE TONIGHT, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER THAT IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ANYWHERE THAT WE'RE GONNA PUT DENSITY, IS THIS WHERE IT GOES? WHAT'S THE POINT DOWN HERE IN THE CORNER? THE BOTTOM LEFT BOTTOM, YOU KNOW, OFF OF 29.
UM, THE, THE BOTTOM RIGHT WHERE YOU SEE THE HIGHWAY LINES, THAT'S ALL PENN OUT RIGHT AWAY.
AND THEN THE, THE SO NORTH OF 4 22, THAT'S ALL OTTAWA LAND DEVELOPMENT PROPERTY.
I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD, I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND CHANGING THAT.
THIS IS THE, THE AREA THAT'S NOW ON THE TOP PART OF IT WAS THE AREA THAT WAS ON THE BOTTOM PART OF THE PREVIOUS MAP.
AGAIN, IT'S AN AREA THAT IS CONSTRAINED BY ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES.
I I HEAR THAT THERE'S SOME ON THE LARGE PIECE.
I HEAR THAT THERE'S SOME, UM, ENVIRONMENTAL, UM, CHEMICAL ISSUES.
'CAUSE IT USED TO BE AN ORCHARD, SO THERE'S SOME STRINE OR CYANIDE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THE GROUND.
SO THAT WOULD OBVIOUSLY TAKE SOME REMEDIATION FROM A DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT.
BUT IT'S A LARGE SECTION, A LARGE CONGLOMERATION OF PARCELS THAT COULD BE PUT TOGETHER AND BECOME A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT.
AGAIN, IS THIS WHERE WE WANNA SEE TRAFFIC? IS THIS WHERE WE WANT TO SEE, YOU KNOW, KEEP IT TO SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED? IS IT SOMEWHERE WHERE WE WANNA SEE CLUSTER SO THAT WE CAN GUIDE THE DEVELOPMENT AWAY FROM THE CENTER? WHERE'S 29 UP HERE AT THE CORNER, RIGHT? YEAH, OVER THERE ON THE LEFT.
AND AGAIN, IT, IT'S VERY STEEP.
IF YOU'RE DRIVING APOLLO ROAD, THAT ONE SQUARE YELLOW PIECE IS A HOUSE.
WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU GO BACK BEYOND THE HOUSE, IT'S A PRETTY STEEP ROAD UP TO THE HOUSE THAT THAT'S IN THE BACK.
AND THE OTHER PIECE, WHICH IS BETWEEN THE TWO PINK PORTIONS DOWN THERE OFF OF LONGFORD ROAD, IT IS A, A VERY LARGE PIECE.
IT IT IS GOT SOME, IT'S GOT THE STREAM RUNNING THROUGH THE TOP THERE THAT YOU CAN SEE.
IF YOU EVER COME DOWN LONGFORD ROAD, IT'S QUITE ENTERTAINING TO GO OVER THAT BRIDGE AND OVER THE RAILROAD TRACKS.
THIS IS SORT OF JUST PAST THAT.
UM, I'VE GOTTEN A FEW PHONE CALLS ON IT.
IT IS, IT IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE LAST LARGE SINGLE OWNER PROPERTIES TO BE DEVELOPED IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
I'VE GOTTEN PHONE CALLS FROM, HEY, WE WANT TO DO INDUSTRIAL AIR, WHICH IS WHAT IT'S OWNED.
SO I SAID WELL BRING HIS PLAN.
AND THEN I'VE ALSO GOTTEN QUESTIONS ABOUT, HEY, WE WANT TO DO A MIXED RESIDENTIAL TYPE COMMUNITY DOWN IN THAT AREA.
YOU KNOW, NOT SAYING EITHER ONE OF THOSE IS GOOD OR BAD.
IT IS JUST, THOSE ARE THE PRESSURES THAT WE GET WITH THIS LARGE PIECE THAT'S LEFT ON UBON.
SO IT'S IT IS A DEVELOPER OF TVES.
YEAH, HE'S, I'VE ASKED BEFORE AND THEIR ANSWER IS, WE'RE TRYING TO PLAY COOL WITH THE TOWNSHIP.
THAT'S GONNA LIKE BE THE LAST THING THAT THEY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? COOL.
LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO GET LIKE 700 APARTMENTS APPROVED SO
THAT'S WHY THE PROPERTY RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET'S JUST WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH IT.
WELL, AND THEN I THINK THE MOST INTERESTING PIECE OUTTA THESE THREE HERE IS IF YOU LOOK AT LONGFORD AND EGYPT, WHICH I'M SORRY, THE STREET NAMES JUST DIDN'T COME ACROSS ON THESE MAPS.
IT'S THE SQUARE PIECE ON THE OTHER, ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THAT PICTURE.
NO ONE'S EVER COME IN AND ASKED ME ABOUT IT.
LONGFORD AND EGYPT, IT'S OWNED BY A REALTY COMPANY.
NOBODY'S EVER ASKED ME ABOUT IT.
I ASKED BRIAN, WHO IS MY PREDECESSOR, NO ONE'S EVER ASKED HIM ABOUT IT.
IT'S THE STRANGEST THING IN THE WORLD.
YOU COULD PUT UP 60 SOME HOUSES IN THERE FAIRLY QUICKLY.
WELL I'M NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO THE COOLEST EXCITING.
I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF THAT THOUGH.
DOES THAT STILL LOOK LIKE GREER IT? I LOOKED UP THE OWNER TODAY.
[00:40:01]
BROADWAY REALTY.I WAS THINKING BLACKSTONE REALTY, BUT BROADWAY REALTY.
DO YOU HAVE A LINE ON THAT? YOU TOLD ME A LONG TIME AGO.
THAT PINK I LIVED, I LIVED NOT TOO FAR.
YOU KNOW FAR IS THAT PINK AREA ALL INDUSTRIAL THOUGH? YES.
PROBABLY BE WHO'S GONNA WANNA BUY RIGHT NEXT? YEAH.
BUT ALL OF THAT INDUSTRIAL SPACE IS DOWN TOWARDS THE RAILROAD TRACKS.
THAT'S THE NEAR WHERE THE MOSQUE IS AND WHERE THE RED AREA IS.
SO IT'S NOT, WE DON'T GET THIS TRAFFIC THAT HOLLOW.
SO BEHIND THAT IS WHERE THIS PROPERTY IS RIGHT AROUND BEHIND KIND HAD TO COME EGYPT ACROSS FROM
IS IT FRONTAGE ON EGYPT? ABSOLUTELY.
IT'S FRONTAGE ON LONGFORD AND EGYPT.
SO HERE'S THE BIG DISTRIBUTION CENTER THAT OPEN SPACE.
THAT'S THE ONE THAT BAFFLED ME.
I DON'T WANNA SEE IT DEVELOPED, BUT IT'S PRETTY LAND.
WHAT WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THAT? IS IT STEEP OR FLAT? I DON'T THINK IT IS.
IT'S NOT A FAIRLY FLAT, I THINK AS, AS, AS MR. GRACE SAYS.
I MEAN WHAT AS MR. GRACE, JEFF AS JEFF SAYS, YOU KNOW, WHY NOBODY WANTS TO BUILD THERE IS KIND OF BAFFLING BECAUSE IT'S A REASONABLY SMOOTH AREA AND THE REST OF THE HOMES TO THE NORTH AND TO THE EAST, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL KIND OF THE SAME PLANE.
UM, SO WHY HAS IT NEVER BEEN DEVELOPED? IS IT FOR SALE? IT'S BEEN FOR SALE HOW MANY YEARS? IT USED TO HAVE A SIGN IN FRONT OF, THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO SIGNS NOW, BUT WHO KNOWS WHICH ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS THERE.
IT'S OAKS, THE OLD OAKS
YEAH, IT WOULD, IT WOULD, IT WOULD.
I MEAN, I WOULD ASSUME OAKS IS AN OAKS ISS JUST STRAIGHT UP THE HILL A LITTLE BIT EAST.
UP EACH OF ROAD, LAWFORD ROAD.
SO AGAIN, AREAS TO CONSIDER, AREAS TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE WANNA SEE AND WHAT WE WANNA SEE.
UM, AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST IS THE OAKS INTERCHANGE.
THIS, THIS IS WHERE THE EXPO CENTER IS, WHERE CIRQUE SOLE WAS, TARGET LOWE'S.
ONE, THERE'S A LOT OF INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY THAT'S UNDERDEVELOPED.
YOU HAVE TO, AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR EVERY LAND USE IN YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND IN YOUR ZONING ORDINANCE.
THIS IS THE, THE PINK AREAS ARE OUR CATCHALL AREAS.
IF THERE'S NOT A LAND USE SPECIFICALLY NAMED ANYWHERE ELSE IN OUR ORDINANCE, YOU CAN PUT IT DOWN HERE ON A, WITH A CONDITIONAL USE.
I MEAN, WE, WE NEED TO HAVE AN AREA THAT HAS THAT, BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY THAT WE DON'T HAVE A CURATIVE AMENDMENT PUT ON OUR OPS.
BUT THIS IS AN AREA THAT'S A HIGH TRAFFIC AREA.
WHEN YOU HAVE CIRQUE SOLE, WHERE YOU HAVE THE DINOSAUR TINSEL TOWN, WHATEVER'S COMING IN NOW, I DON'T QUITE KNOW, BUT THERE'S DINOSAURS AND THERE'S THE TINSELTOWN STUFF.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW DOING WELL.
THE GUN SHOWS EVERYTHING AT THE EXPO CENTER STOPS 4 22.
I MEAN THERE, THERE IS A LARGE DRAW.
THIS IS ONE, WHEN I SAY DESTINATION AND I TALK ABOUT THE DESTINATION THAT WE HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR, THIS IS OUR DESTINATION
AND HOW DO WE, I MEAN I THINK IT PERSONALLY AND FROM A PROFESSIONAL STANDPOINT, I THINK IT'S GREAT.
HOW DO WE FOSTER THAT AND WHAT DO WE DO TO FOSTER THAT IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE, IN OUR LAND USE PLAN? YOU KNOW, I WAS A LITTLE TAKEN ABACK WHEN FEDEX WENT IN THERE.
NOT THE FEDEX IS A BAD PERSON TO HAVE BAD COMPANY TO HAVE ANY TOWNSHIP.
IT'S GREAT, BUT I DON'T WANNA SEE IT BECOME A TRUCKING TERMINAL WITH THE EXPO CENTER OR C SO LAY THROWN IN THERE EVERY SIX, EVERY OTHER YEAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WHO OWNS THAT PART? IS THAT NEILS? THAT'S AGAIN ON BY LAND DEVELOPMENT.
I MEAN THEY'RE PROBABLY THE SINGLE LARGEST PROPERTY OWNER IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
IT'S, IT'S, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF RHYTHM TO THAT WHOLE DEVELOPMENT.
NO, IT'S HORRIBLE IN THAT SENSE, RIGHT? AESTHETICALLY IT'S JUST A, A HORRIBLE QUILT.
LIKE MM-HMM
IT'S A BAD REFLECTION OF THE TOWNSHIP, LIKE RUGS.
AND THEN THE GUN SHOWS HAVE, WHAT WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF I AGREE.
AND, AND, AND FROM A, FROM A REGULATION STANDPOINT, THIS IS ZONED M ONE AND M TWO, THE SORT OF THE RED AREAS.
M ONE, THE PINK AREAS, M TWO GENERALLY.
[00:45:01]
THE, THE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER OVERLAY DISTRICT ON THERE.AND THAT SAYS THAT IF YOU PUT IN A, A COMMUNITY REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER USE, WHICH ARE THE TARGET AND LOWE'S, IF YOU PUT THAT IN THERE AND YOU REACH 80% OF THE CRSC AREA THAT IT TOUCHES AND IT'S DEFINED IN THERE, WHAT IS CRSC AREA? IF YOU HIT 80%, ALL OF THE INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY HAS TO GO AWAY AND IT BECOMES A PURELY CRSC.
THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN BECAUSE CREATIVE ACCOUNTING WITH DETERMINING THE LAND AREA AND STUFF LIKE THAT, AND THIS IS NOT A KNOCK ON NIELSEN, IT'S THEIR PROPERTY.
THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT TO.
THAT INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY'S NEVER GONNA GO AWAY BECAUSE THEY MAKE GOOD MONEY IN IT.
I THOUGHT IT WAS REAL CLOSE FOR A WHILE TO GET THEM TO REDO THE ZONING DOWN HERE AND VOLUNTARILY AND, AND PAY FROM THE TOWNSHIP TO HELP THEM WORK THROUGH THE ZONING.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA SEE THE INDUSTRIAL USES GO AWAY.
FROM A PROFESSIONAL STANDPOINT, WHAT I WANT TO DO IS COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S NOT SO AMORPHOUS AS THE CRSC OVERLAY AT 80% WITH THE M ONE AND M TWO USES THROWN IN THERE FOR GOOD MEASURE.
YOU CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO THERE OTHER THAN JUST ABOUT ANYTHING.
SO FROM MY STANDPOINT, I'M ASKING YOU AS THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO RECOMMEND THAT WE TAKE SOMETHING LIKE WHAT AJ SAYS AND SAY, THIS IS A HOD PO HODGEPODGE, WE NEED TO FOCUS THIS AND THIS IS WHAT WE WANNA FOCUS IT.
WHETHER YOU USE THE DEFINITION OR THE THE DESTINATION IDEA LIKE I HAVE OR SOMETHING ELSE.
TO PUT THAT IN THE COMP PLAN TO ENCOURAGE THE PROPERTY OWNER AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO DO SOMETHING IN THE AREA TO REFINE IT AND JUST SORT OF GIVE IT SOME GUIDANCE.
I I I'M, I'M, I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING JOE.
I MEAN, HOW, HOW DO YOU CHANGE THE HODGEPODGE UP IN THIS SUMMIT THROUGH THE USE OF ZONING AND THROUGH THE USE OF DESIGN GUIDELINES RIGHT NOW? THERE? WELL, THE USE OF THE, THE, THE ZONING THAT'S IN PLACE THERE RIGHT NOW IS SO WIDE OPEN.
YOU CAN DO JUST ABOUT ANYTHING DOWN THERE.
AND THAT'S OKAY FROM ONE STANDPOINT, BUT THERE'S NO CONTROLS OVER WHEN YOU BRING IN ANOTHER LAND USE.
WHAT ELSE HAS TO HAPPEN? WHEN THEY BROUGHT IN THE EXPO CENTER, WE STARTED TO CLEAN IT UP A LITTLE BIT.
WHEN THEY BROUGHT IN TARGET AND LOWE'S AND BJ'S, THINGS GOT A LITTLE BIT MORE ORGANIZED.
BUT WHEN REGENCY WENT OUT, THEY JUST FLIPPED REGENCY AND NOTHING WAS UPDATED.
NOTHING WAS CHANGED, NOTHING WAS, IT'S JUST ANOTHER HODGEPODGE.
IT'S LIKE ARNOLD'S WEST OR ARNOLD'S EAST AT THIS POINT OVER THE MOVIE THEATER AGAIN, I I THE LIQUOR LICENSE.
UM, I THINK, BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW WE CAN CHANGE THAT.
THAT'S WHY I'M GET THROUGH, THROUGH ZONING AND, AND THROUGH BONUSES AND THROUGH ENCOURAGEMENT, THROUGH THE ZONING LIKE WE'VE DONE IN OTHER AREAS TO ENCOURAGE OPEN SPACE.
YOU GIVE A DENSITY BONUS TO ENCOURAGE CERTAIN USES TO GET MOVED OUT.
YOU ENCOURAGE, YOU ALLOW FOR GREATER USE OF SOMETHING ELSE.
BUT YOU DON'T SEE YOU'S SEE THERE, RIGHT? NO, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE MOVING OUT.
BUT I THINK THAT THEY CAN MOVE USERS IN THAT CREATE MORE OF A MULTI-USE ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT WITH SHOPPING MORE SO THAN JUST A DISTRIBUTION CENTER FOR SHOPPING.
AND, AND, AND SO ENTERTAINMENT USE IS THROWN IN EVERY SIX WEEKS OUT OF THE YEAR.
I'M NOT SAYING IT'S GOING TO WORK.
I LOOK, I'M NOT SAYING IT EITHER.
I JUST DON'T UNDER, I JUST, I'M JUST TRYING TO PICTURE IT AND I'M, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME, YOU KNOW, CONNECTING THE DOTS.
I, I CAN JUST TELL YOU FROM A, FROM A, A ZONING OFFICER, A PLANNING STANDPOINT TO GET TO REALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON DOWN HERE IS, IS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE OF THE REGULATIONS THAT ARE JUST LAYERED ON TOP OF EACH OTHER WITH IT.
AND I GET IT, THERE WERE TIMES WHERE WE WERE JUST TRYING TO PLUG HOLES AND TRYING TO GET A USER IN THERE.
YOU KNOW, WHETHER THAT WAS WHEN GAINOR MOUNTAIN WAS GONNA COME IN BEFORE GAINOR MOUNTAIN FOLDED, UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT WAS THE EXPO CENTER AND THAT WAS A GREAT IDEA.
I LOVE HAVING THE EXPO CENTER DOWN THERE.
I THINK IT'S, IT'S, IT IS A LAND USE THAT NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE AND BRINGS A LOT OF PEOPLE TO THIS TOWNSHIP.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT HAS TO BE A SEA OF PARKING.
AND THERE'S NO OTHER RESTAURANTS BESIDES PJP DOWN THERE.
I KNOW THERE'S OTHER RESTAURANTS, BUT REALLY WHEN YOU GO DOWN THERE AND YOU, IF YOU ARE TO GROVE, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IN THERE, BUT, AND YOU DON'T KNOW.
YEAH, WE DON'T, WE, IF YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR RIGHT.
AND YOU DON'T KNOW IT, GOING TO THE GUN SHOW IS ONE THING.
GOING TO A EXPO SHOW IS ONE THING, BUT YOU WANNA MAKE IT A DESTINATION WHERE YOU GO TO A RESTAURANT, THEN YOU GO SHOPPING FOR A LITTLE BIT AND THEN YOU GO TO THE GUN SHOW AND THEN YOU DO WHATEVER YOU DO WITH THE GUNS.
SO
[00:50:01]
THAT SHOWS YOU GOING SOMEWHERE, PUT SOME SIDEWALKS IN, PUT SOME BUS STOPS ON EACH YOUR ROAD.DIRECT PEOPLE THAT THEY CAN GO AND WALK AND NOT HAVE TO WALK IN A BIG WIDE ROAD TO GET INTO.
WELL, LIKE RIGHT NOW, IF I GO TO THE EXPO CENTER FOR WHATEVER SHOW IS THERE, AND I DECIDE THAT I'M GONNA GO OVER TO ARNOLD'S TO EAT, YOU GOTTA WALK THROUGH A PARKING LOT.
YOU GOTTA WALK THROUGH A PARKING LOT OR YOU GOTTA, AND THERE'S NO CLEAR DEFINITION TO THE ARNOLD'S PARKING LOT.
YOU HAVE TO LEAVE YOUR, YOU EITHER YOU HAVE TO GET YOUR CAR FROM WHERE YOU WERE THE AND DRIVE OVER THERE.
IF I WANNA GO TO P IF I WANNA GO TO PD WHEELAND, IT'S THE SAME THING.
I CAN WE MAKE THAT CHANGE HAPPEN.
BY, BY CREATING A ZONING DISTRICT THAT WORKS FOR THE LAND OWNER, THE LANDOWNER, I DON'T WANT TO TAKE AWAY THEIR ABILITY TO OBVIOUSLY DEVELOP THEIR PROPERTY, BUT TO ALSO GUIDE IT, SAYING THAT WHEN USERS COME IN, THESE SORTS OF THINGS HAVE TO HAPPEN.
WE WANT TO CREATE A WALKABLE AREA.
WE WANT TO CREATE, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WAS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT WHEN, WHEN THE MOVIE THEATER MOVED OUT AND HE TOOK IT OVER AND NOW MADE IT, LIKE YOU SAY, NO, THEY OWN THE MOVIE THEATER AND THERE'S NOT A LOT WE COULD DO ABOUT THAT, BUT ALMOST, ALMOST 80% OF THAT PROPERTY IS LEASED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ICE SKATING RINK AND A COUPLE OF OTHERS THAT THERE'S RIGHT.
A GROUP OF, SO IT'S, THEY OWN IT, THEY LEASED.
THERE'S YES, I KNOW THAT'S, YOU'RE SAYING SIR.
HOW, HOW DO YOU AFFECT THE CHANGE? WELL, THERE'S NO MOTIVATION.
WHAT'S MOTIVATION? NIELSEN'S GETTING HIS MONEY.
WHY HE, WHY'S HE GONNA PUT SIDEWALKS ON AND, AND, AND LOOK, I'M, I'M NOT, I'M NOT BASHING NIELSEN.
I'M NOT EVEN THE ABSOLUTE BEST HE CAN IN THIS PROPERTY'S, I THINK JUST TO BE FROM A, FROM A TOWNSHIP STANDPOINT.
MAYBE HE CONTINUES DOING WHAT HE'S DOING AND WORKING ON IT AND THE ORDINANCE NEVER GETS PASSED.
BUT I WOULD LIKE TO AT LEAST START LOOKING AT IT FROM A DESIGN AND, AND AN APPARENT AND A, AND AN APPEARANCE STANDPOINT.
LIKE AJ SAID, WHEN YOU DRIVE INTO THE TOWNSHIP AND THAT'S THE FIRST THING YOU SEE, IT, IT, IT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A BUMMER.
I MEAN, WE FINALLY GOT RID OF DELISA MOSS'S CREDIT.
WE FINALLY GOT RID OF THOSE TRUCKS THAT WERE OUT THERE WHERE THE EXPO CENTER USED TO WHERE THE EX, WHERE THE, UM, THE CIRQUE
REMEMBER THOSE TRUCKS? I MEAN TRUCKS.
AND I MEAN, I DON'T, I KNOW WHERE THEY ARE NOW.
THEY'RE NOT ALL THAT FAR AWAY, BUT THEY'RE NOT THE FIRST THING YOU SEE WHEN YOU GET IN THE TOWNSHIP.
I WANT TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT.
AND EVEN IF THAT MEANS EVOLVING INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A DISTRIBUTION MODEL WITH SOME OTHER LAND USAGE.
BUT YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT SKY ZONE DOWN THERE.
YOU'VE GOT, UM, I THINK THERE'S A DANCE PLACE.
I THINK THERE'S A, THERE'S A CLIMBING GYM, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE IT A DESTINATION FOR LARGER, NOT RETAIL, BUT LARGER LAND USES THAT ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE ENTERTAINMENT BASED.
IF WE CAN ENCOURAGE THAT AND WE CAN MAKE IT SO IT IS SO THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO DO THAT AND DO THE THINGS THAT ARE, THAT MAKE IT, THEY CLEAN IT UP.
ALMOST LIKE A CAMPUS WHERE THE, WHERE THERE'S SOME TYPE OF DIRECTION ORGANIZATION.
I'VE HAD THREE FAMILY FRIENDS WHO TRAVEL FROM VIRGINIA TO COME PLAY IN A HOCKEY TOURNAMENT.
AND THEY'RE LIKE, COOL, YOU GUYS ARE IN NEAR VALLEY FORGE, CAN'T WAIT TO VISIT.
AND THEY'RE LIKE, WHAT IS THIS PLACE? YEAH.
I THOUGHT WE'RE GOING TO VALLEY FORGE AND I'M ACTUALLY LIKE THESE TANKERS AND STUFF.
AND IT'S HARD TO EXPLAIN LIKE MM-HMM.
IT'S JUST PLAY HOCKEY AND GO TO THE ONE RESTAURANT.
I'M STILL TRYING DESIRE TO DO ANY RESIDENTIAL IN THERE.
BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT IT INTERNALLY.
JEFF, I STILL AT THAT PLACE, I'M STILL STRUGGLING WITH TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, AND AGAIN, I'M NOT BASHING HIM.
I'M NOT BASHING, BUT WHY WOULD NIELSEN, WHY WOULD HE WANT TO DO, WHAT WOULD BE HIS INCENTIVE TO AGREE TO DO THESE IMPROVEMENTS? SO AESTHETICALLY IT LOOKS BETTER.
WHY WOULD HE WANT TO DO THAT? I, AND, AND MAYBE THERE ISN'T AND MAYBE I'M, I'M PIE IN THE SKY ABOUT IT.
I MEAN, ABSOLUTELY I COULD BE PIE IN THE SKY ABOUT IT, BUT I, I THINK THAT IT IS, IT IS SOMETHING THAT FROM A TOWNSHIP STANDPOINT, I WOULD HOPE TO ENCOURAGE IT AND FIND THE AREA, FIND A WAY THAT HE WOULD BE WILLING, HE, THAT THE, THAT THE CORPORATION WOULD BE WILLING TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION.
IT'S, IT'S LORD'S COMPANY WITH A LOT OF FAMILIES.
YOU KNOW, AND I THINK, I MEAN, THE FEW OF THEM THAT I'VE MET, I THINK THEY'RE WILLING TO DO THOSE THINGS.
AND I THINK THEY'RE GOOD CORPORATE CITIZENS.
I, I THINK THEY'RE GREAT CORPORATE CITIZENS FOR THIS TOWNSHIP.
AND I THINK THEY WANNA MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION IF, BUT IT IS EXTREMELY EASY TO JUST SIT BACK AND GO, I'M GONNA TAKE USER A, HE'S MOVING OUT AND I'M GONNA MOVE IT USER B AND SHE'S MOVING IN IT.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE, FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, THE TOWNSHIP COULD PROVIDE A VISION OF WHAT ULTIMATELY WE WOULD LIKE THAT PART OF OUR TOWNSHIP TO BE AND BE UTILIZED FOR.
SO WHEN IT'S TIME FOR HIM TO PUT NEW USERS IN THERE, THEY'RE ALMOST, I MEAN, CORRECT ME IF I'M
[00:55:01]
WRONG, YOU'RE GIVING 'EM A LEFT AND RIGHT LIMIT SAYING, HEY, WHATEVER YOU DO IN THE FUTURE, THIS IS THE VISION WE HAVE FOR IT.IF YOU FOLLOW THE VISION GENERALLY.
AND THAT'S, AND THAT'S THE POINT FOR A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO PUT THE VISION IN THE PLAN THAT SAYS, THIS IS WHAT WE, WE ENVISIONED THIS AREA TO BE.
AND EVEN HOW THE DEVELOPMENT SHOULD PROGRESS AS PART OF YOUR VISION FOR THAT.
AND EVEN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CAN EVEN STEP A LITTLE FARTHER OUT AND JUST RECOMMEND THAT THE BOARD STUDY THIS AREA TO COME UP WITH A VISION.
FOR A MASTER PLAN, A VISION FOR THIS AREA, REALIZE.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE WHERE WE SPEND ANOTHER THREE MONTHS TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE WANT THE VISION TO BE.
WE CAN, THE VISION JUST SAYS THIS IS A PRIORITY WE BELIEVE.
THAT SHOULD BE FURTHER ANALYZED.
I LIKE, I MEAN, AS WE TALKED ABOUT, THEY OWN A LOT OF PROPERTY IN THIS TOWNSHIP AND, AND THEY DON'T WANT, THEY'VE NEVER FOR SOMETIMES AS, AS HARD AS IT'S BEEN TO GET THEM TO DO THINGS.
THEY DON'T DO THINGS OR THEY DON'T NOT DO THINGS JUST TO BE DIFFICULT.
THEY DO THEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY TO THEIR OWN PEOPLE.
BUT THEY ALSO WANT TO WORK IN THIS TOWNSHIP BECAUSE THEY DO HAVE A LOT OF PROPERTY THAT'S NOT DEVELOPED AND THEY WANT TO DEVELOP IT.
SO IF THEY, IF WE CAN FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS, THEY MAKE THEIR MONEY AND WE GET SOMETHING WE REALLY LIKE.
WHAT OTHER PROPERTIES? HE DEALS OWN
WELL IF YOU LOOK UP AT, I'M JUST BREAKING THIS UP.
THEY ARE DOING THAT RIGHT NOW IN LOWER PROVIDENCE.
THEY'RE PUTTING TOGETHER A GOOD PIECE OF PROPERTY TROOPER IN EGYPT ROAD ON THAT SIDE GOING DOWN THAT THEY OWN, THEY FINALLY HAVE PUT IN SOME NICE RESTAURANTS.
YOU HAVE, THERE'S A GIANT THERE, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF HOTELS THERE.
THERE'S A CHICKEN AND PEANUT, THERE'S A WAWA.
THIS IS ALL PROPERTY THAT DALE AND HAVE DONE.
AND THEY OBVIOUSLY SHANNON HILL WAS A BIG, BIG PART OF IT.
WELL, AND AND I, YOU KNOW, A LOT NIELSEN OR UBON LAND DEVELOPMENT GOT A BAD REPUTATION I THINK FOR A WHILE OF JUST KIND OF BEING, AND LET'S JUST PLUG IN PLAY SOME CRAPPY LAND USES IN THERE.
I THINK WHEN THEY SET THEIR MIND TO IT, THEY CAN DO THINGS EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY WELL.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I WAS, AND, AND WHILE RIGHT NOW A LOT OF THEIR FOCUS IS LOWER PROVIDENCE, BUT IT'S ALSO OUT IN THE NEW HANOVER AREA.
'CAUSE THEY OWN A LOT OF PROPERTY OUT THERE.
NOW I WANT TO BRING IT BACK AND SAY, HEY LOOK, LET'S NOT FORGET ABOUT THIS AND LET'S NOT MAKE THIS JUST THE ARMPIT.
LET'S FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN COME UP WITH A GOOD VISION FOR THE AREA.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S THE SAME THING THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH THE ARCOLA ROAD.
UM, EVERYTHING ALONG ARCOLA ROAD, WHEN AUDUBON LAND DEVELOPMENT CAME IN THERE AND THEY WANTED TO PUT THE APARTMENTS IN, WE TALKED ABOUT THEM, ABOUT THE DESIGN OF THEIR SIDEWALKS, THE DESIGN OF THEIR CROSSWALKS, THE DESIGN OF THEIR LIGHTS, ALL THAT STUFF.
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU DRIVE THROUGH THE ROUNDABOUT AND IT'S DARKER GRAY FOR GOOD OR FOR BAD.
AT THIS POINT WE'RE TRYING, THE IDEA WAS TO GET SOMETHING THAT SORT OF UNIFIED THREE SEPARATE DEVELOPMENTS WITH WHITE SPRINGS FARM, PROVINCETOWN CENTER APARTMENTS AND PROVINCETOWN CENTER.
I'VE TALKED TO THE OWNERS OF PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
THEY'RE LOOKING AT INCORPORATING SOME OF THE THINGS THAT, THAT AUDUBON LAND DEVELOPMENT DOES.
WE WANT TO MAKE IT SO THAT IT LOOKS LIKE A TOWN CENTER, NOT, SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THREE SEPARATE LAND DEVELOPMENTS.
TOLL MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT OF MORE OF A CHALLENGE TO GET THEM TO JUMP ON BOARD, BUT THEY'RE GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE THEY WANT TO GET OUT THERE AND CLOSE OUT.
SO WE MAY HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A HAMMER.
WE'RE JUST TRYING TO DO THAT DOWN HERE TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A SUBDIVISION.
JEFF, JEFF GOTTA ADD TO THAT POINT.
'CAUSE ONE OF THE, SO AS A REMINDER TO THE PLAN COMMISSION TOO, IS YOU HAVE AN, AN ADOPTED ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION PLAN AND A COMPLETE STREETS POLICY, WHICH DISCUSS MODES OF TRANSPORTATION, MULTIMODAL CONNECTIVITY AND ALL THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.
THAT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE, WHILE IT WAS STILL IN DRAFT FORM, BEFORE IT WAS ADOPTED AND PUBLISHED, THAT WAS ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT WE UTILIZED TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS ALL ABOUT LAND TO GET THE TRAIL THAT THEY BUILT.
THE, THE SHOULDERS THAT ARE OUT THERE FOR FUTURE BIKE CONNECTIVITY, THE BIKE RAMPS FOR THE ROUNDABOUT AND STUFF THAT'S, THAT'S IN PLACE.
SO BECAUSE THAT WAS ACTIVE IN THE, IN THE ACTIVE IN, IN THE TOWNSHIP AND ACTIVE, UH, PLAN THAT THEY KNEW WAS COMING, THAT WAS KIND OF LIKE ONE OF THOSE VISION LEVERAGE THAT WE WERE ABLE TO USE WITH THEM TO GET SOME OF THOSE IMPROVEMENTS.
SO I, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A GOOD CONVERSATION.
AND, AND IT'S ON THE WEBSITE TOO, THE FORMAL ADOPTED COPIES.
NOW ARE I THERE THE ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION COMPLETE STREETS THAT COULD BE
[01:00:01]
UTILIZED, REFERENCED IN THE COMP PLAN, BUILT IN POSSIBLY TO THE TRANSPORTATION SECTION AND KIND OF HELP MOLD THOSE THINGS TOGETHER TO KIND OF HELP THESE, THESE THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOWN IN THIS AREA.LIKE CONNECTIVITY IN THIS, THIS SORT OF THING.
AND I'LL TELL YOU, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT.
I WAS JUST TRYING TO TYPE INTO OUR DATABASE OF AUDUBON LAND DEVELOPMENT TO SEE THE POOL, HOW MANY PROPERTIES THEY OWN.
THEY HAVE EVERYTHING UNDER A SHELL NAME.
SO THERE'S NO WAY I CAN TELL YOU, I KNOW THAT THEY OWN, UM, WE KNOW THEY OWN THE ONE ACROSS FROM PROVINCE TOWN, RIGHT? YEAH.
THEY, THEY OWN THE EVERYTHING ACROSS PROVINCE, TOWN CENTER APARTMENTS THEY OWN, UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE AT THE POST OFFICE IN, IN OAKS.
AND THERE'S EVERYTHING THAT RUNS DOWN ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF STATION AVENUE AS YOU'RE HEADING THROUGH THE PJ'S.
OH, UM, EVERYTHING BASICALLY THAT'S, THAT'S THE TARGET.
LOWE'S, THAT OF THAT IS THEIR PROPERTY.
THE, THE PROPERTY WE TALKED ABOUT ON HOLLOW ROAD, UM, ACRES.
HOW ABOUT THE OTHER SIDE WHERE, UH, THE WAWA AND ALL THAT IS OTHER SIDE OF THAT SHOPPING CENTER? YEAH.
THE WENDY WAWA SHOPPING CENTER.
SEE, SEE, I THINK THE DIFFERENCE, I'M SORRY NICOLE.
I, I THINK THE DIFFERENCE WITH WHAT YOU GUYS ARE SAYING ABOUT LIKE LOWER PROVIDENCE AND, AND IS THAT THEY HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO IMPROVE THOSE PROPERTIES 'CAUSE THEY'RE BUILDING THERE.
AND THEY'RE MAKING MONEY ON NOT HAVING TO DO ANYTHING.
WHEN, WHEN IT STARTED OUT, THAT WAS NIELSEN'S HOUSE ON THE CORNER TRACKS.
WELL I DID, BUT COUPLE OLD FORESTS THAT THEY HAD AND THEY PUT TRUCKS THERE TO THE WHOLE THING.
YOU, IT'S A CATALYST TO GET THEM TO DO A BETTER JOB.
TOM, THE ONE THING I'LL SAY IS YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY NOT WRONG.
BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S A REASON FOR US NOT TO TRY.
I'M ALL FOR TRYING, I'M JUST TRYING TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WELL, AND, AND, AND WHERE THE DOTS GET CONNECTED HERE.
AND, AND MAYBE THIS IS AN ACT OF FU AN ACT OF FUTILITY.
WELL, AND NO, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S, MAYBE IT IS, BUT, BUT IF YOU'RE GONNA PUT RESOURCES, IS THAT THE BEST PLACE TO PUT RESOURCES? PERSONALLY? YES.
FROM MY PROFESSIONAL STANDPOINT, LOOKING AT THIS TOWNSHIP, THERE'S LOTS OF ISSUES GOING ON.
RIGHT? THIS IS AN AREA THAT WE'VE IGNORED FOR A VERY LONG TIME BECAUSE IT IS PROBLEMATIC, IT'S DIFFICULT.
IT IS ONE SINGLE LANDOWNER WANTS TO DO WHAT HE WANTS TO DO.
I THINK MOVING FORWARD, BECAUSE WE'RE 94.7% DEVELOPED, WE'RE GONNA START TO HAVE TO LOOK AT AREAS AND RE WHERE, WHERE IS REDEVELOPMENT? WHAT DOES REDEVELOPMENT MEAN TO THIS TOWNSHIP? WELL, THE BIGGEST AREA THAT'S GONNA BE RE THAT NEEDS TO BE REDEVELOPED IS THIS, THAT CAN BE REDEVELOPED.
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN TALK ABOUT AN OFFICE BUILDING HERE.
YOU CAN TALK ABOUT A, A HOUSE OF, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, THE OAKS ELEMENTARY, THAT, THE MONTCLAIR ELEMENTARY, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT, THAT ARE GONNA BE REHABBED.
BUT THIS IS A BIG AREA THAT IF YOU CAN GET THIS MOVING IN A DIRECTION WITH THE LANDOWNER'S HELP, NOT SAYING WE'RE DOING THIS JUST SPITE THE LANDOWNER WITH THE LANDOWNER'S HELP AND GET THEM TO BUY INTO THE PROGRAM.
YOU COULD HAVE SOMETHING IN FIVE TO 10 YEARS.
THAT'S A VERY, VERY SPECIAL DESTINATION THAT THIS TOWNSHIP DOESN'T HAVE.
WELL, IIII MEAN YOUR VISION IS, IS IS RIGHT ON.
I I JUST FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT WITH ALL THE STUFF THAT THEY GOT GOING ON THAT THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE, WELL I FIND IT DIFFICULT TOO.
IT, IT IS GONNA BE, IT IS GONNA BE SOME T POLLING EXAMPLE IS THAT THEATER.
THEY BOOM, THEY JUST MOVED THE, LIKE YOU SAY, AND ARNOLD NORTH END THERE AND, AND YOU KNOW, DID THEY CONTACT US AT ALL AND SAY, HEY, WHAT DO, WELL THEY, THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH THE BUILDING PERMIT PROCESS.
I MEAN, THEY PUT A KITCHEN IN, THEY ASKED FOR OUR OPINION, WHAT WE THINK THEY SHOULD DO WITH THAT BUILDING, OR NO, I MEAN, I, WHEN, WHEN REGENCY WENT OUT OR REGAL, I'M SORRY.
WHEN REGAL WENT OUT, I GOT A COUPLE PHONE CALLS FROM VARIOUS PEOPLE AND I CALLED BRAD MACY AND SAID, HEY, YOU KNOW, LIKE ONE SPECIFICALLY I, THEY SAID WE WANT TO GET THIS BUILDING AND WE WANT TO CONVERT IT TO SELF STORAGE.
IT'S BASICALLY A SHELL BUILDING.
WE CONVERT TO SELF STORAGE IN ABOUT SIX WEEKS AND WE'RE, WE'RE READY TO GO.
WE SEE THE ZONING IN PLACE TO DO IT.
THE ZONING DOESN'T REALLY BUY INTO WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
I CALLED BRAD AND I SAID, HEY BRAD, YOU KNOW, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT THERE? IS THIS A DIRECTION YOU WANT TO GO AS THE LANDOWNER? BECAUSE WHEN I ASKED THE PERSON WHO CALLED ME, THEY SAID THEY HADN'T TALKED TO YOU, I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF THAT'S THE DIRECTION WE'RE GOING SO WE CAN BE PREPARED TO CHANGE OR TO DO WHATEVER.
AND HE GOES, WE DON'T WANT THAT THERE.
I GUARANTEE YOU WE DON'T WANT THAT THERE.
AND THEN THEY FINALLY CLOSED AND ARNOLD EAST WENT IN AND, AND AGAIN, IF FITS WITH IT, THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO TO CHANGE.
I'M NOT GONNA TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM WHAT HE CAN DO DOWN THERE.
I'M JUST HOPING THAT AS THINGS EVOLVE, AS THINGS CHANGE OVER THAT MAYBE WE CAN ENCOURAGE BUYING INTO A VISION, WHATEVER THAT VISION MAY BE.
[01:05:03]
I THINK IT'S A, UH, A VERY VALID ARGUMENT AND IT IS A VERY NOBLE, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M WILLING TO DIE ON THE HILL.I MEAN, MAYBE JUST EVERYTHING WAS THE SAME COLOR AT ALL.
THE PARKING LOTS WERE PAVED AT THE SAME TIME.
IT'S LIKE SOMETHING MORE UNIFORM SIGN.
WHAT IS THAT GLOVE? HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT GLOVE ON WHEELS STEAL IT PARTY, YOU'RE GETTING RECORDED TO DO ALL THAT.
YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THE PARKING LOTS AND STUFF.
NOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO NEGOTIATE THAT LANE ACROSS FROM PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
WHAT DO YOU WANTS TO DO THERE? YOU'RE GONNA SAY, OKAY, WE'LL LET YOU DO WHAT YOU WANT THERE, BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THIS OVER HERE.
I MEAN, YES, THERE'S ALWAYS SOME OF THAT IN ALL OF THIS.
THAT, THAT WHEN YOU OWN MULTIPLE PROPERTIES, YOU'RE LIKE, HEY, HEY, YOU KNOW, RUB ME BACK OVER HERE AND I'LL RUB YOU BACK OVER HERE.
AND, AND IS THERE SOME OF THAT, CERTAINLY THERE, THERE'S ALWAYS THAT DISCUSSION, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO GIVE AWAY THE FARM ON EVERYTHING.
I THINK COST ARE GIVING AWAY THE FARM EITHER.
WE, HOW MUCH MORE DOES SHE GOT JEFF? I GOT NOTHING.
I GOT, I GOT PLANNING COMMISSION DECEMBER 6TH.
I THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE SOME FINAL PLANS LINED UP TO TALK ABOUT THAT'S IN A COUPLE WEEKS.
I I THINK WE JUST HOLD BOTH OF THEM OPEN NOW.
I MEAN, WE CAN ALWAYS CANCEL THEM VIA EMAIL IF WE NEED TO.
I, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA NEED TO HAVE THAT MEETING, BUT AGAIN, IT DEPENDS ON IF THE, IF THE OTHER MEETINGS LINE UP.
YOU KNOW, IF WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE IT, I WOULD, THAT'S A GOOD WEEK NOT TO HAVE IT.
AND THEN, UM, JANUARY 3RD, I DIDN'T PUT THAT ON THIS LIST, BUT JANUARY 3RD WE WILL HOLD, THAT'S OUR REORGANIZATION MEETING.
UM, SO THAT WE WILL HAVE THAT MEETING, EVEN IF IT'S JUST TO COME HERE AND ELECT WHOEVER TO WHATEVER POSITION.
AND THEN WE COME BACK AT THE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING ON THE 17TH WILL BE THE NEXT MEETING BACK.
I'D LIKE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT TOO SOMETIME.
OFF THE RECORD, YOU KNOW HOW TO GET AHOLD OF ME.
AND BY THE WAY, UM, YOU CAN'T LEAVE YET 'CAUSE YOU STILL HAVE TO SIGN SOMETHING FOR ME.
SO THEN THAT, THAT'S, UM, APPLICATION TO BE HEARD ON NOVEMBER 15TH.
NONE DISCUSSION, FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS, WHICH
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
YOU JUST DID.SO WE'RE READY TO CALL FOR IT WITH MAKE THE NICOLE'S FAIR REPORT ON THE NIGHT.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.