[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:02]
I HAD LIKE TO CALL IT A ORDER, THIS REGULAR MEETING OF THE UPPER PROVIDENCE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 18TH, WOULD YOU PLEASE RISE AS YOU'RE ABLE AND JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE? I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC OF WHICH IS SAYING, FOUNDATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
[MOTION TO APPROVE BOARD AGENDA]
FIRST BIT OF BUSINESS IS TO APPROVE OUR BOARD AGENDA.AND UH, WE HAVE THREE, I APOLOGIZE, BUT WE HAVE THREE LAST MINUTE ADDITIONS TO OUR AGENDA THAT WE'RE GOING TO, UH, GO AHEAD AND APPROVE.
UM, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, SEPTEMBER 18TH, 2023 BOARD OF SUPERVISORS REGULAR MEETING AGENDA WITH THE FOLLOWING CHANGES.
ONE UNDER AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, THE TOWNSHIP MANAGER WILL BE PREVIEWING THE PRELIMINARY BUDGET, BUT THERE WILL BE NO LEGAL ADVERTISEMENT AUTHORIZATION UNTIL THE BOARD'S OCTOBER 16TH, 2023 MEETING.
AND NUMBER TWO, ADD A NEW AGENDA ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, CONSIDER ADOPTING RESOLUTION 2023 DASH 36, APPROVING THE TOWNSHIP'S 2024, MINIMUM MUNICIPAL OBLIGATION.
AND NUMBER THREE, CONSIDER A MOTION TO APPROVE FIVE DAY SUSPENSION FOR BADGE NUMBER 27.
ALRIGHT, I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND WITH, UH, THREE ADDITIONS TO THE NEW, UH, BUSINESS PART OF THE MEETING.
[PUBLIC COMMENT]
TIME FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.UH, IF YOU WANT TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT BEFORE THE BOARD, I ASK YOU TO COME UP TO THE LECTERN STATE YOUR NAME, YOUR STREET ADDRESS, AND PLEASE TRY TO CONTAIN YOUR REMARKS FOR THREE MINUTES.
MY NAME IS CHRIS HOUSER, 2 0 6 ON MILL ROAD.
UM, FIRST I WANT TO THANK THE BOARD.
UM, BEING ABLE TO WATCH THE MEETINGS FROM HOME IS ONE REALLY CONVENIENT AND TWO VERY EYE-OPENING.
UM, YOU GUYS DEAL WITH A LOT OF MINUTIAE AND, UM, IT'S
I I AM GUESSING YOU DON'T GET APPRECIATED ENOUGH FOR THE EFFORT THAT YOU PUT IN.
AND THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO WATCH FROM HOME.
UM, I'M HERE BECAUSE OF THE PROPOSED ORDINANCES, SO I'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THOSE WHEN WE GET TO THEM.
BUT, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, SUGGEST TO THE BOARD THAT, UH, THEY CONSIDER, UM, EXPANDING THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THEM BEFOREHAND.
THE NOTICE THAT'S PUT OUT IS OBVIOUSLY IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE, THE MUNICIPALITY'S PLANNING CODE, BUT I DON'T THINK THE CODE PRECLUDES ADDITIONAL NOTICE.
SO POSTING IT ON THE TOWNSHIP WEBSITE FOR THE FACEBOOK PAGE, YOU KNOW, NOT MANY PEOPLE READ THE PAPER ANYMORE OR SEARCH OUT THE PUBLIC NOTICES ONLINE.
UM, AND OBVIOUSLY ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE ENGAGEMENT WOULD BE GREAT.
UM, AND ALSO MAKING THE ORDINANCES AVAILABLE FOR REVIEW.
THEY WERE AVAILABLE FOR A WEEK, UM, DURING BUSINESS HOURS.
SO, AND THEY WERE ONLY ADVERTISED THAT SATURDAY PRIOR.
SO IF SOMEONE WORKS OUTSIDE THE AREA AND, YOU KNOW, NEEDS MORE THAN A WEEK'S NOTICE TO TAKE TIME OFF, THEY HAVE NO WAY OF BEING ABLE TO REVIEW THEM.
UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY REASON ANYMORE THAT THEY CAN'T BE MADE INTO PDFS AND PUT ON THE WEBSITE OR AT LEAST BE REQUESTED BY EMAIL.
UM, I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S ANY LEGAL REASON THEY COULDN'T BE MADE AVAILABLE THAT WAY, BUT AGAIN, THAT WOULD JUST MAKE IT A LOT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO, TO ACCESS.
SO THAT'S IT, AND THANK YOU AGAIN.
IF I, IF I MAY, MR. CHAIRMAN, THE, THE WEBSITE HAS RECENTLY BEEN UPDATED.
CHERYL, UM, I'M TRYING TO PULL IT UP AND OF COURSE I CAN'T FIND IT VERY QUICKLY, BUT UNDER THE SECTION FOR, OH, THERE IT IS.
BIDS, PDF, RFPS AND ADVERTISEMENTS.
WE NOW HAVE ALL OF OUR, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF UPDATING, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE NOTICES AND THE ADVERTISEMENTS ON OUR WEBSITE.
SO THIS IS REALLY, THIS IS VERY, VERY NEW.
I THINK IT'S PROBABLY BEEN WITHIN THE LAST WEEK, TWO WEEKS THAT WE PUT IT UP THERE.
SO WE'RE TRYING, AND THEY GIVE A THANK YOU.
UM, JUST SO EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT IT'S THERE, DID YOU PAY HER COMMENT?
YEAH, WE CAN, WE CAN LOOK INTO IT, SEE WHAT WE CAN DO.
JUST THE THOUGHT, HOW YOU CATCH ATTENTION.
ANY OTHER PROBABLE COMMENTS OR YOU WANNA COME FORTH? GOOD EVENING.
[00:05:01]
AND I JUST ALSO WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE BOARD FOR ALL YOU DO.UH, IT'S, IT IS A, PROBABLY A, A VERY TIME CONSUMING JOB AND HAVE OTHER JOBS.
I ALSO WANNA SAY I'VE BEEN USING THE COMMUNITY CENTER QUITE A BIT AND I LOVE IT.
AND SO THANK YOU FOR HAVING THAT.
AND THE ACTIVITIES AND THE, IT'S JUST EVERYTHING ABOUT IT.
IT REALLY DOES GIVE A SENSE OF COMMUNITY HERE AND WE GET PEOPLE FROM THE OUTSIDE OF THE AREA COMING THERE AND IT REALLY IS A, A GREAT PLACE.
UH, ONE THING THAT CAME TO MY MIND ABOUT IT WAS THERE IS OPEN SPACE RIGHT AROUND ANDERSON PARK.
COULD WE NOT ADD A, A COMMUNITY GARDEN, A SPACE WHERE PEOPLE COULD COME TOGETHER AND GARDEN, UH, TO, TO, TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER.
JUST SOMETHING THAT, TO CONSIDER.
AND THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD PLACE TO DO IT.
AND THEN, UM, I CANNOT LEAVE WITHOUT PLEASE ASKING YOU TO CONSIDER PARKHOUSE THE FARM AROUND IT.
I KNOW IT'S, IT'S YOU IN DISCUSSIONS OR IN SOME POINT, BUT PLEASE CONSIDER HOW THIS IS THE LAST REMAINING LARGE OPEN SPACE AND IT'S AROUND A WATERWAY THAT'S VERY CRITICAL.
AND WITH THE CLIMATE AND HOW IT'S BEING, IT'S CHANGING AND THERE'S NO DENYING THAT, THAT THE RUNOFF.
IT, IT'S, WE'VE GOTTA KEEP QUALITY WATER.
WE'VE ALSO GOTTA TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE TRAFFIC.
I, I DRIVE UP AND DOWN ONE 13 A LOT AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE DAY, YOU, YOU SIT THERE AND I CAN'T IMAGINE HAVING EVEN 700 UNITS WITH TWO TIMES TWO OR MORE THE TRAFFIC.
AND IN THIS NICE URBAN AREA, THIS PART OF OUR COMMUNITY IS SO URBAN.
I'M SORRY I USED THE WRONG WORD.
NOT URBAN RURAL, AND HOW THAT WOULD JUST BE AN ANOMALY SITTING THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.
SO PLEASE
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE HEARD FOR PUBLIC COMMENT? SEEING NO ONE RISE, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD.
[EXECUTIVE SESSION REPORT]
WE HAD AN EXECUTIVE SESSION TONIGHT BEFORE THIS MEETING, UH, TO DISCUSS PERSONNEL MATTERS AND REAL ESTATE MATTERS.[APPROVAL OF BILL LIST]
THE APPROVAL OF THE BILL LIST.I KNOW EVERYONE GOT A COPY IN THEIR PACKET.
UH, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, NOW'S THE TIME TO ASK THEM.
IF NOT, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION.
MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE BILL LIST, UH, FROM AUGUST 1ST TO AUGUST 30, 31ST, 2023 IN THE AMOUNT OF $2,898,441 AND 41 CENTS.
ALRIGHT, I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE THE BILL.
LIST THE PERIOD OCTOBER 1ST THROUGH THE 31ST, 2023 IN THE AMOUNT OF $2,898,441 AND 41 CENTS.
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
A PACKET OF MINUTES FROM OUR LAST MEETING, UH, AUGUST 21ST IN OUR, UH, IN OUR MEETING PACKET.AND, UH, IF THERE'S NO CORRECTIONS OR QUESTIONS, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE THOSE.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AUGUST 21ST, 2023, THREE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS REGULAR MEETING MINUTES.
ALRIGHT, I HAVE A MOTION, A SECOND TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE AUGUST 21ST, 2023 BOARD OF SUPERVISORS REGULAR MEETING.
AND, UH, WE HAVE NO PUBLIC HEARINGS TONIGHT.
[OLD BUSINESS (ACTION/DISCUSSION ITEMS)]
AND NOW ON TO OLD BUSINESS.UH, CONSIDER ADOPTING RESOLUTION 2023 DASH 34, GRANTING FINAL LAND DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL FOR THE SOUTH LEWIS INVESTMENT PARTNERS, INVESTMENT PARTNERS, 4 61 SOUTH LEWIS ROAD.
AND, UH, I'M SURE WE'RE GONNA GET A PRESENTATION, AREN'T WE? THANK YOU.
HI, GOOD EVENING MEMBERS TO THE BOARD TO SEE YOU ALL AGAIN.
DO WE HAVE THE P OH, YOU ALREADY HAVE IT UP HERE.
UM, IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE'VE SEEN YOU.
UM, I BELIEVE IT WAS LATE LAST YEAR, ACTUALLY, 2022 WHEN WE RECEIVED PRELIMINARY PLAN APPROVAL FOR THIS SITE, UM, CONTINGENT
[00:10:01]
UPON CERTAIN, UM, NEGOTIATIONS WITH PENDOT AND THE TOWNSHIP AND THE PEOPLE, UM, OF THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION OF ORCHARD COURT TO, UH, RESOLVE ANY OUTSTANDING ISSUES AROUND THE, UM, THE INTERSECTION OF VAUGHN AND, AND LEWIS.AND WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED ALL OF THAT AS I, AS I HOPE YOU'VE SEEN IN YOUR PACKETS.
UM, AND I BELIEVE TO EVERYONE'S, UH, HAPPINESS AT THIS POINT, PENNDOT AND ORCHARD COURT AND THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, AND THE PLAN HAS NOT CHANGED OTHER THAN, AND, AND I CAN HAVE, UM, MR. FIOLA COME UP AND, AND TESTIFY TO THIS, BUT THE ONLY THING THAT CHANGED WAS A SHIFT IN THE UNITS ALONG, UM, VAUGHN ROAD TO ACCOMMODATE A GREATER DEGREE OF THE, UM, THE SITE VISION FOR, FOR THAT TERM.
AND SO WE ARE, WE ARE, WE'RE SEEKING, UM, FINAL APPROVAL.
WE DID GET, UM, FINAL APPROVAL RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION A FEW WEEKS AGO.
AND I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS.
JUST, JUST TO FILL EVERYBODY IN A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.
UM, UH, ANTHONY AND I DID MEET WITH THE BOARD FROM ORCHARD COURT.
UM, THAT IS NOT AN OBLIGATION THAT IS ON THE, THE APPLICANT, BUT IT'S RELATED TO THIS.
UM, AND IN FACT, I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT STANDS ADMINISTRATIVELY, BUT I'M LOOKING, I'M LOOKING TO BE ABLE TO GO BACK TO THEM TO SAY THAT THE TOWNSHIP HAS A, HAS IT AS A, UH, AGENDA ITEM TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS TO THAT INTERSECTION.
UM, EARLY ON WE HAD SPOKE ABOUT MAJOR CHANGES AT THAT INTERSECTION OF TRAFFIC CIRCLE OR, UM, SIGNALIZATION THAT USED, UH, THE SAME LAYOUT AS THE TRAFFIC CIRCLE.
AND THOSE WERE PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE.
BUT, UM, ANTHONY'S OFFICE HAS OFFERED AN OPINION THAT THEY HAVE A WAY TO MAKE SOME MORE LIMITED IMPROVEMENTS, UM, THROUGH THE USE OF TWO SIGNALS THAT WILL BE EXTREMELY HELPFUL IN THE TRAFFIC FLOW THERE.
UM, THE AGREEMENT THAT WE'VE REACHED WITH THE APPLICANT, THEY'RE DOING A LITTLE BIT MORE WORK THAN THEY HAVE TO, STRICTLY SPEAKING, THEY'RE DOING A LITTLE BIT OF WORK FOR THE TOWNSHIP WHEN THEY DO THEIR WORK.
THEY'RE GONNA GO A LITTLE BIT WIDER AND A LITTLE BIT MORE WITH THE, WITH THAT ADDITIONAL WORK.
YOU COULD THEN DO THE, UM, SIGNALIZATION IMPROVEMENTS THAT, THAT ANTHONY CAN ELABORATE UPON.
UM, THERE'S SOME SLIGHT JOCKEYING OF THE NUMBERS.
SO WHEN WE, THE TOWNSHIP IS GOING TO OFFSET THE AMOUNT THAT THEY GO OVER ON THE TOWNSHIP'S BEHALF, WE'LL OFFSET WITH FEES AND THEN A PAYMENT TO THEM FOR ANY DIFFERENCE WITH WORK.
IF, IF WAIVING FEES DOESN'T, UM, COVER IT.
THE RESOLUTION THAT I GAVE YOU REFERENCED AN ESTIMATE FROM THEIR ENGINEER AND WE'RE GOING, WE MIGHT BE SLIGHTLY REFINING SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS DOWNWARD.
SO THE, THE NUMBER WON'T GET BIGGER.
IT MIGHT GET A LITTLE BIT SMALLER AND, BUT WE'LL WORK THAT OUT AS BETWEEN US, UM, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED.
SO WHAT'S THE EXTRA THAT
BUT THEN THERE'S, THERE STILL COULD BE, I THINK IT'S LIKE ANOTHER 90 OR A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS THAT THE TOWNSHIP WOULD STILL OWE FOR THE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE INTERSECTION.
WELL, AND THEN WHATEVER THE SIGNALIZATION COSTS OKAY.
LATER WHEN YOU'RE READY TO DO THAT.
BUT THIS SETS, THIS SETS THE TABLE FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT WITHOUT HIRING YOUR OWN CONTRACTOR.
AND NORMALLY YOU CAN'T HAVE O OTHER PEOPLE DO YOUR WORK FOR YOU, BUT IT'S SUCH A MINIMUM EXPANSION OF THE WORK THAT THEY'RE ALREADY OUT THERE DOING THAT WE FELT THAT IT WAS OKAY.
AND IF I COULD JUST SAY I, THE, THE ESTIMATES THAT WERE PROVIDED TO THE TOWNSHIP, UM, FROM OUR SIDE ORIGINATED IN MARCH OF THIS YEAR.
I'M SURE EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD IS FAMILIAR WITH INFLATION AND THE INCREASED COST OF CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS THAT JUST CONTINUES TO SKYROCKET.
SO THAT NUMBER IS SUBJECT TO SOME FLUCTUATION.
BUT CERTAINLY AS I PROPOSED TO MR. BRESNAN, UM, WE WOULD SAY BASED UPON OBJECTIVELY ACCEPTABLE CONTRACTOR ESTIMATES, CERTIFIED CONTRACTOR ESTIMATES WOULD BE WHAT WE WOULD BE THE ESTIMATES.
ALL THE, THE, THE, UM, THE ESTIMATE FROM, FROM THE ENGINEER IDENTIFIES ALL THE WORK.
IT HAS NUMBERS IN IT, BUT THOSE NUMBERS MIGHT CHANGE WHEN YOU GET HARD BIDS.
SO RIGHT NOW THEY'RE ESTIMATES, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE, SAME AS AN INTERVIEW.
EVERY OTHER PROJECT IS THERE TWO LIGHTS HERE SHOWING THAT IS NOT, THAT IS NOT A PART OF ANYTHING THAT'S TODAY.
[00:15:01]
RIGHT.IN THE FUTURE, WHEN YOU SET THE TABLE, THAT'S THE TABLE WE BE SETTING FOR.
SO I HAVE, I HAVE A QUESTION WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE IF WE NOT, WE'RE GOING TO, IF WE APPROVE THIS TONIGHT AND THEY CAN GO AHEAD AND BUILD THIS, WE HAVE, WE DON'T DO ANYTHING THAT INTERSECTION THERE, HOW'S THAT GOING TO IMPACT THAT INTERSECTION? THE, WELL, THE PLAN ITSELF, THE ACTUAL TOWNHOUSE UNITS, THERE'S NO CONDITIONAL USE, THERE'S NO ORDINANCE CHANGED.
SO THEY'RE ENTITLED TO PUT THEM THERE.
SO THEY, I'M NOT ARGUING, I'M NOT ARGUING THAT POINT.
MY ONLY CONCERN IS THAT'S ALREADY A BAD INTERSECTION AND WE ALREADY KNOW THAT.
'CAUSE THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAD ALREADY LOOKED INTO MAYBE PUT A CIRCLE IN THERE AND DO ANOTHER IMPROVEMENTS THERE.
WE ALLOW THEM TO GO AHEAD AND WE GIVE THEM APPROVAL TONIGHT FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT.
HOW, HOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AT THAT INTERSECTION? I I'M, I'M, I'M SORRY.
IT'S A BAD INTERSECTION TO BEGIN WITH AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'RE ALLOWING MORE DEVELOPMENT ON THAT IN, ON THAT CORNER.
AND IT'S LIKE, THAT'S, SHOOT, WELL, BUT THAT'S GONNA BE A REAL CLUSTER.
WELL THERE IS, THERE IS AN IMPACT FROM TRAFFIC.
ANYTIME THERE IS DEVELOPMENT THAT IS THE NECESSARY, UM, RESULT, BUT, BUT THERE WILL BE A SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT TO IT WITH THE CIVILIZATION WHEN YOU GUYS, YOU ARE READY TO TACKLE THAT.
I KNOW, AND I DON'T MEAN TO ARGUE WITH YOU, BUT IT'S LIKE, SHOULD WE BE LOOKING AT THAT AT THE SAME TIME THAT THEY'RE DOING THE DEVELOPMENT? I MEAN, UM, WOULDN'T THAT BE THE APPROPRIATE THING? I I, I DON'T, I I JUST, I JUST THINK IT'S A BAD INTERSECTION TO BEGIN WITH.
WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT WORSE BY APPROVING THIS THING THIS EVENING, WHICH MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE.
UM, ARE, ARE WE GOING TO DO IT AS A BOARD? ARE WE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND SPEND MONEY ON THIS INTERSECTION TO MAKE IT SO THAT IT IS BETTER? SO MR. PEARSON, IF, IF YOU'RE THROWING THAT OUT, JUST IN GENERAL, I WOULD LIKE TO ANS AND I KNOW IT HAS BEEN QUITE SOME TIME SINCE WE'VE BEEN BEFORE YOU, UH, I BELIEVE WE WERE BEFORE YOU IN OCTOBER, NOVEMBER OF 2022.
I REMEMBER THE LAST TIME YOU WERE HERE AND WE ARGUED ABOUT THE SAME THING.
HOW ARE YOU GONNA IMPROVE THAT INTERSECTION? WE DID.
AND, AND I'M NOT SAYING IT DIDN'T, YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO PUT THAT MONEY INTO THAT, THE $38,000 YOUR ACT 2 0 9 MONEY INTO THAT INTERSECTION.
BUT WE WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT.
ACTUALLY, IF YOU, I BELIEVE IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UM, THE IMAGE THAT'S UP ON THE SCREEN, IF YOU SEE, UM, THE, I'M HORRIBLE AT GEOMETRY, BUT LIKE THE, THE TRIANGLE, I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S ISOSCELES
AND THEN WE ALSO CREATED A DESIGN THAT WAS ACCEPTABLE NOT ONLY TO THE TOWNSHIPS, UH, TRAFFIC ENGINEER, BUT TO PENNDOT AS WELL.
WE HAD EXTENSIVE MEETINGS WITH PENNDOT AND MCMAHON AND OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER AND EVERYONE WAS HAPPY WITH WHAT WAS BEING ACCOMPLISHED IN THIS DESIGN.
MY PROBLEM RIGHT NOW ISN'T WITH YOU, MY PROBLEM NOW IS WITH THIS BOARD, IT'S, IT IS LIKE WE HAVE TO DECIDE ON WHETHER WE'RE GONNA ALLOW THAT INTERSECTION TO BE AS MESSED UP NOW OR, AND MORE IN THE FUTURE.
WELL, I, BUT I WOULD ALSO ADD TO THAT, I WOULD ASK YOU TO MAKE THAT COMMITMENT, NOT JUST BECAUSE THIS, THESE TOWNHOUSES ARE GOING IN, THE PEOPLE IN NORTHSHORE COURT ARE ALREADY IN A BAD WAY.
AND IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE THE MORE SO WHEN WE TAKE AWAY THEIR LITTLE SLIP RAMP OUT, SO THEY'RE SAYING THEY CAN'T EVEN GET OUT IN THE MORNING.
AND UM, BUT THIS SIGNALIZATION WILL REALLY HELP THEM.
THEY DON'T HAVE A SECOND WAY OUT OF THAT, UM, THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT DEVELOPMENT.
AND THEY, THEY CAN'T EVEN GET A LEFT COMING OUT 'CAUSE THERE'S NEVER A BREAK IN THE LINE OF TRAFFIC.
SO WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE QUOTE FOR THE SIGNALIZATION? I MEAN, I KNOW WE DIDN'T GET OFFICIAL QUOTES YET, BUT WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE GUESSTIMATE? YEAH, WE HAD, WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO LAY OUT A FORMAL CONCEPT TO GET A, GET AN ACCURATE NUMBER.
I MEAN, BUT WITH, UM, NOT GOING INTO THE DETAILS ROUGHLY.
I MEAN, FOR A SIGNALIZATION YOU'RE TWO TO 300,000 PER INTERSECTION.
UM, BUT THAT ALWAYS FLUCTUATES DEPENDING ON THE GEOMETRY AND THE ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS.
200,000 PER LIGHT OR NOT FOR THE, I CAN'T QUOTE FOR THIS PARTICULAR SCENARIO BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN IN FOR THAT DETAIL.
BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, AN INTERSECTION THAT YOU SIGNALIZE
[00:20:01]
YOU, YOU'RE SOMEWHERE IN THAT, IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.CAN I ASK A DOWN BLONDE QUESTION? MM-HMM.
AND WOULD THAT WORK RESIST WHOLE, I I REALIZE THAT'S TAKING MORE LAND FROM THE CHURCH OR WHATEVER THAT IS ON THE CORNER.
YEAH, SO WE, OH, IT'S A MEDICAL OFFICER.
I, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
THAT'S CERTAINLY SOME, THAT'S ONE OF THE SCENARIOS OR A SCENARIO THAT WE'VE RUN LIKE KIND OF IN OUR MINDS.
SO WE HAVEN'T, JUST TO LET EVERYONE KNOW.
SO WE, WHAT YOU SEE, THE CONCEPT THAT'S ON THE SCREEN, UM, WAS REALLY THE ROUGH SKETCH.
SO IT'S NOT, WE HAVEN'T VETTED IT ALL OUT IN A LOT OF DETAIL, BUT WHAT WE'VE DONE IS BASICALLY WE LOOKED AT AN OPTION OF THE SIGNALIZATION.
THE REASON WHY WE SHOW THE TWO SIGNALS, THE WAY WE HAVE 'EM THERE, AND WE HAVEN'T SHOWN A REALIGNMENT AND GOTTEN INTO THAT, UH, UH, LEVEL OF COMPLEXITY WITH AN INTERSECTION PROJECT, IS TO SEE IF YOU WERE NOT TO DO THOSE MAJOR IMPACTS, COULD YOU GET A SIGNAL TO WORK WITH THE LEAST AMOUNT OF DISRUPTION AND, AND, UH, GRADING AND, AND IMPACT ON ADJACENT LAND TO THE ORCHARD COMMUNITY WHERE THAT DEVELOPMENT ON THE CORNER, UM, THAT YOU REFERENCED.
UM, SO THAT'S WHAT WE, WE FOCUSED ON THAT TRYING, TRYING TO LOOK AT AN OPTION THAT DOESN'T ENTAIL A LOT OF EXTRA ROADWAY WIDENING AND REALIGNMENT.
UM, THAT THAT WAS THE FOCUS OF, OF THE DOUBLE SIGNAL THAT YOU SEE ON THE, ON THE SKETCH OF FUNDING.
BUT THERE, THERE IS OPTIONS THAT WE COULD EVALUATE, BUT CERTAINLY IT WOULD BE MORE COST, MORE IMPACT.
UM, SO YOU'RE TRYING TO GIVE US A PLAN A THAT'S CHEAPER AND EASY, LIKE A LOW LINE FREE OPTION.
THAT THAT'S, AND WE COULD THEN WE COULD, AS WE GOT GRANT MONEY STRAIGHTEN THE ROAD OUT, WE COULD, I MEAN, WHAT WE DID, I KNOW WITH OUR CONVERSATIONS, UH, WITH THAT JOE AND I HAD WITH ORCHARD COURT, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A QUESTION EVEN THAT CAME UP.
CAN WE REALIGN ORCHARD COURT'S EXIT TO ALIGN WITH THAT SOUTHERN LEG OF THE SOUTH LOUIS LEG? UM, BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT THERE'S A LOT OF IMPACT.
I GUESS THERE'S A PARKING, THERE'S, THERE'S THAT HOUSE RIGHT THERE ON THE CORNER DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM SOUTH LOUIS THAT, THAT LAKE.
SO IT, WE CAN EVALUATE THOSE SCENARIOS, BUT YES, WE TRY TO LOOK AT IT FROM WHAT CAN WE DO WITH THE MINIMAL IMPACT TO THE FOOTPRINT THAT'S THERE WITHOUT MAJOR REALIGNMENT.
COULD WE GET SOMETHING TO WORK? AND THAT'S WHAT WE FOCUSED ON.
COULD THAT BE DONE WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT'S DONE THIS EASY, THIS EASIER PLAN? 'CAUSE THAT'S YOUR THING, JOHN, RIGHT? YOU DON'T WANT THE HOMES TO GO WITHOUT FIXING THE CORNER.
AND I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH YOUR DEVELOPMENT.
I THAT'S YOU, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PEOPLE COMING OUTTA ORCHARD COURT.
LIKE JOE HAD SAID, THEY'RE, THEY'VE GOT AN ISSUE NOW BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE SLIP RAMP THERE ANYMORE.
AND, AND IT, IT'S JUST NOT A GOOD INTERSECTION THE WAY THAT IT IS THAT IT SITS RIGHT NOW.
SO AS A BOARD, HOW, HOW LONG DO YOU WANT TO, DO YOU WANT TO SIT THIS THING OUT FOR A YEAR OR SO UNTIL WE GET A GRANT FOR THIS THING? DO YOU WANT TO BITE THE BULLET AND SPEND THE MONEY ON IT? IT'S LIKE THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT AS A BOARD BEFORE WE GO AHEAD.
AND I KNOW THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEVELOPER, BUT BEFORE YOU GRANT APPROVAL ON THIS THING, WE NEED TO, WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THERE.
SO CAN I JUST, AND I DON'T WANT TO, I I I I THEY'VE DONE THEIR JOB.
WE WERE GONNA PUT A BUDGET ITEM IN, IN ONE OF OUR WORKSHOPS FOR THIS INTERSECTION PUT
SO THERE'S NO STOP, YOU KNOW, THAT SAVES GAS, THAT SAVES CARBON.
YOU KNOW, I, I'M NOT SURE WE WANT TO REALIGN IT.
WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE AWAY THE, THE SLIP RAMP OUT OF THERE UNTIL WE DO SIGNALIZE THAT AND THE FOLKS FROM CORP WANT, WHAT THEY WANT IS, UH, A TWO LIGHT SOLUTION THAT ALLOWS 'EM TO PULL STRAIGHT OUT AND STRAIGHT ONTO, UH, SOUTH LOUIS ROAD AS THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO DO WITH THE SLIP RAMP TODAY.
AND, UH, SO ANYWAY, WE HAVEN'T SEEN, THIS IS NOT A FULL MOCKUP, BUT WE ARE THINKING ABOUT IT AND WE KNOW THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO SPEND SOME MONEY.
I DON'T MIND WAITING A LITTLE WHILE ON GRANT'S TIME
TOM, WHAT WERE YOU, SO THE, JUST SO I'M CLEAR, THE BLUE IS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN FROM YOU FOLKS, RIGHT? AND THEN THE YELLOW IS WHAT WE WOULD NEED TO DO ALONG WITH THE SIGNALS.
AND THE GREEN SLIP RAMP, YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION BILL.
DOES THAT HAVE TO GO AWAY WHEN THE BLUE STUFF IS PUT IN? HAS ANYBODY SPOKEN TO WHERE SOFT SOLUTIONS ABOUT HOW VIABLE
[00:25:01]
IT IS? I MEAN, WE'RE TAKING A BIG CHUNK OF THAT CORNER OUT BY MAKING A RIGHT TURNING LANE OFF LEWIS ROAD ON THE VAUGHN.IS IT, I MEAN, IS THAT EVEN VIABLE? DO WE KNOW? UH, SO THAT'S ONE OF THE ASPECTS THAT WE, SO ONE OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE'VE BEEN HAVING, UH, YOU KNOW, AT STAFF LEVEL DEFICIT FOR, FOR, FOR THE BOARD TO DECIDE UPON IS HOW DETAILED CAN WE GET WITH A CONSTANT PLAN? 'CAUSE RIGHT, WITH THIS SKETCH, WE, WE, WE, I MEAN, WE COULD GET AN IDEA WALK IN AND WE'VE BEEN OUT THERE SEVERAL TIMES, BUT WHAT WE'D LIKE TO PUT TOGETHER IS A, IS A, AT LEAST A DECENT GRADING PLANS.
SO WE CAN KIND OF GET INTO WHAT ARE THOSE A WHAT ARE THOSE ASPECTS, WHAT ARE THOSE IMPACTS? DRAINAGE, RIGHT OF WAY, EASEMENTS, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.
SO THAT WAY WE CAN REALLY HONE IN ON A COST ULTIMATELY.
UM, BUT WHAT, WHAT THE IMPACTS ARE.
UM, BUT NO DISCUSSIONS HAVE OCCURRED TO DATE.
IT'S JUST THE PRELIMINARY SKETCH AT THIS POINT.
NOW, THE ONE, ONE THING, IF I MAY, UM, IN THE SPIRIT OF COOPERATION WITH THE APPLICANT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO ASSIST WITH, WITH THIS CONCEPT.
UM, WE HAVE ASKED FOR THE ABILITY TO OBTAIN THEIR, UM, SURVEY CAD FILES, UM, WHICH WOULD SAVE THE TOWNSHIP, YOU KNOW, HAVING TO GO BACK OUT THERE AND RESURVEY THINGS.
UM, SO WE'RE HOPEFUL IN THE SPIRIT OF COOPERATION WITH THE APPLICANT THAT THEY'D BE WILLING TO DO THAT.
UM, IF WE WERE TO HAVE THAT, YOU KNOW, WOULD SAVE A LITTLE BIT OF COST TO THE TOWNSHIP AND KIND OF GET INTO SOME OF THOSE DETAILS EARLIER.
UM, SO THAT, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE, I WOULD ONLY SAY TO ADD TO WHAT MR. VALENCIA JUST PROVIDED, THAT WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THIS IN TERMS OF THE TURQUOISE BLUE, HAS BEEN VETTED BY PENDO.
SO, SO THE GRADING, THE SITE DISTANCE, ALL OF THAT HAS BEEN RUBBER STAMPED FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES.
NOW, WHAT THE COST WOULD BE MIGHT BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THE COST OF THE TOWNSHIP, BUT IN TERMS OF ITS FEASIBILITY FOR IMPROVING THE INTERSECTION THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED BY PENDOT.
SO WE'LL TALK FURTHER ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO, RIGHT? THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN POSITION AGAIN, YOU KNOW, LAND DEVELOPMENT IS AN I DOTTING T CROSSING PROCESS.
YOU HAVE REVIEW LETTERS FROM YOUR CONSULTANTS THAT ALL SAY IT'S CLEAN AND, YOU KNOW, READY TO BE APPROVED.
AND THE APPLICANT DID GRANT AN EXTENSION LAST MONTH TO GET TO THIS MEETING.
SO EVERYTHING IS IN POSITION FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE RESOLUTION TO APPROVE THEIR RESOLUTION.
AND AS BILL SAID, IF WE DON'T TAKE THE SLIP RAMP AWAY FROM ORCHARD COURT, YOU KNOW, BEFORE DOING THE IZATION, THEY AT LEAST HAVE THAT.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT MUCH, BUT AT LEAST THEY HAVE THAT IN THE MEANTIME.
IN OTHER WORDS, THAT SLIP THING IS NOT A PART OF THE APPROVAL OF THIS OKAY.
IT'S YOU GUYS, YOU'RE DOING IT.
LOOK, I'M JUST SAYING YOU DIDN'T, SO THAT'S FINE.
I'M JUST SAYING THAT THE INTERSECTION IS NOT ANY BETTER AFTER THIS DEVELOPMENT GOES IN.
WHEN, WHEN DO YOU GUYS ANTICIPATE PUTTING A SHOVEL IN THE GROUND? MAYBE, UH, IF YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU GET YOUR APPROVAL TONIGHT.
I, I SEE SOME DEVELOPMENT THAT DON'T WIN FOR THE NEXT YEAR.
MAYBE THAT GIVES US A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO GET THIS THING FOR US TO DO THE INTERSECTION.
WELL, AND THAT WOULD BE IDEAL.
AND HONESTLY, WE'VE BEEN IN COMMUNICATION WITH YOUR CONSULTANTS THIS ENTIRE TIME, AND WE WOULD LIKE TO ASSIST THE TOWNSHIP IN COORDINATING THAT EFFORT SO THAT IT ALL HAPPENS SEAMLESSLY.
WE WOULD LOVE TO ASSIST IN THAT.
I MEAN, WE'RE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY AS WELL, AND WE WANT TO SEE EVERYTHING WORK WELL AND EFFICIENTLY AND LOW COST FOR THE TAXPAYERS, YOU KNOW, SO, OKAY.
I I LIKE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING BECAUSE I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO DO IT ALL AT ONCE WHEN WE DO IT.
I THINK THE DAUNTING THING FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IS I'M SIGNING OFF ON SOMETHING AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT'S GONNA COST ME.
RIGHT? AND, AND MY ONLY POINT TO YOU, SIR, WOULD BE THAT, UH, IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU'RE SIGNING OFF ON TONIGHT, WE, WE BASICALLY HAVE, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AS A LAWYER, WE HAVE ENTITLEMENTS TO, ALL WE'RE SAYING IS WE'RE ALSO WILLING TO HELP OUT THAT THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHERE WE ARE.
NO, I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I, UH, IT, I'LL SHOW A LITTLE BIT OF MY IGNORANCE TO THE PROCESS.
IS THERE CONTINGENCY WE CAN PUT INTO IT? IT SAYS OCCUPANCY CAN'T START UNTIL THE TOWNSHIP HAS FINAL PLANS IN COORDINATION WITH YOUR FINAL PLANS.
NO, I WOULD NEVER, I WOULD NEVER, I THAT WOULD BE MALPRACTICE, SIR.
FOR ME, ME TO, TO ALLOW MY CLIENTS.
I'M JUST TRYING TO COORDINATE HERE.
BUT HONESTLY, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT.
BUT, BUT, BUT I, I THINK I HEAR JOHN, AND I'M IN LINE WITH HIS, WITH HIS LINE OF THOUGHT HERE IS WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH GRANT PROCESSES.
WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA COST US.
YOU COULD START AND IN SIX MONTHS HAVE ALL THIS WORK
[00:30:01]
UNDERWAY AND WE'RE SCRAMBLING AROUND.THAT'S THE DAUNTING PART OF IT.
BUT WE DO HAVE, HOW DO WE CATCH UP TO COORDINATE THE PLANNING? SO, OKAY, SO I THINK I CAN OFFER THIS MUCH AND IF ANYONE DISAGREES WITH ME WHO'S IN THE KNOW, PLEASE CORRECT ME.
UM, OUR, OUR IMPROVEMENTS, UM, COORDINATED WITH THE TOWNSHIP TO THE INTERSECTION AS PLANNED CAN, UM, GO IN AND BE COHESIVE WITH THE SITE DEVELOPMENT.
AND I BELIEVE THAT THE SIGNALIZATION CAN BE ADDED LATER, IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE.
WE'RE LOOKING FOR IMMEDIATE OFFSET TO THE PROBLEM CREATED BY THE ADDITIONAL BODIES AND CARS FROM YOUR PROJECT.
BUT I DON'T THINK IT CAN BE QUITE THAT IMMEDIATE.
THERE'S GONNA HAVE TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF LAG TIME IN BETWEEN THE TWO BECAUSE THEY ARE OUT AHEAD OF YOU.
THEY HAVE AN ENTITLEMENT TO APPROVAL TONIGHT AND THEY'RE OUT, THEY'RE OUT IN FRONT OF THAT PROCESS.
BUT YOU COULD HAVE IT SO THAT MAYBE THERE'S ONLY, BY THE TIME THEY FIRST MOVE IN AND YOU'RE GETTING UNDERWAY, MAYBE THAT'S ONLY SIX MONTHS OR, YOU KNOW, NINE MONTHS IF YOU JUMP ON THE, ON THAT NOW.
BUT YOU'RE NOT REALLY COMMITTING TO THAT OBLIGATION WITH THIS VOTE.
NOT LITERALLY, BUT BECAUSE THIS VOTE IS ONLY APPROVING THEIR PROJECT, NOT THE SIGNALIZATION.
SO YOU'RE NOT APPROVING THAT YET, ALTHOUGH I'M SUGGESTING THAT YOU WANT TO KIND OF GET MOVING ON THAT SO THAT THERE'S ONLY A LITTLE BIT OF IN BETWEEN TIME WHERE YOU'VE GOT THAT EXTRA TRAFFIC.
YEAH, SO, SO LET, LET ME ASK, LET ME, LET ME ASK DUMB ANOTHER DUMB QUESTION.
WHAT, WHAT, WHEN I, I THINK I ALREADY ASKED IT.
WHEN DO YOU PLAN ON PUTTING SHOVEL IN THE GROUND? GIMME AN IDEA.
ARE YOU, ARE YOU PLANNING ON PUTTING IT IN RIGHT AWAY? ARE YOU GONNA WAIT SIX MONTHS? I, WE GET DEVELOPMENTS THAT COME IN FRONT OF US.
THEY DON'T PUT A SHOVEL ON THE GROUND FOR TWO, THREE YEARS OR WHATEVER.
I, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT WHERE YOU GUYS ARE COMING FROM SO THAT I KNOW HOW MUCH FIRE TO LIGHT UNDER THE ES OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE WORKING HERE.
I KNOW, I DON'T HAVE ANY SAY IN THAT ACTUALLY.
AND I DON'T THINK I ACTUALLY HAVE ANY PERSPECTIVE ON THAT.
I'M THE, UM, THANK YOU OWNER OF, UH, SETH LEWIS INVESTMENT PARTNERS.
UM, I, I, I'VE SPOKEN WITH, UH, THOSE WHO ARE ULTIMATELY GONNA BUILD THIS, BUILD THIS DEVELOPMENT, THEY TELL ME THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH A PROCESS OF PULLING TOGETHER A DEVELOPERS AGREEMENT WITH, WITH THE, UH, WITH THE TOWNSHIP THAT IT NEEDS TO GET FUNDED.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S A NUMBER OF STEPS THAT, THAT ARE, THAT ARE STILL GOING TO NEED TO TAKE PLACE BEFORE WE STICK A SHOVEL ON THE GROUND.
UH, THERE THERE'LL BE MOBILIZATION AND OTHER THINGS THAT, THAT ARE GONNA NEED TO OCCUR.
I WOULD GUESS PROBABLY JUNE OR JULY OF NEXT YEAR IS PROBABLY, IS PROBABLY SHOVELING THE GROUND IS, IS PROBABLY A, UH, ABOUT A TIMEFRAME THAT WOULD BE, I THINK, REASONABLE.
SO GUYS, THAT GIVES US ALMOST A YEAR TO PULL OUR ACT TOGETHER HERE.
WHAT OPINION, NOT FOR INTERRUPTING, BUT WHAT I, ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THAT, UM, UH, MR. PRESIDENT TOUCHED ON, UH, AND MS. DON TOUCHED ON WAS THAT THIS, THIS PROJECT IS, IS A STEPPING STONE.
IT'S A STEPPING STONE FOR THE, ULTIMATELY THE SIGNALIZATION OF THIS INTERSECTION.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, PUTTING A, PUTTING A SIGNAL IN.
CERTAINLY WE CAN WORK WITH MCMAHON AND, UH, AND, AND, UH, AND FOR RUNNING CONDUIT AND DOING THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT THAT WOULD BE STRICTLY A PART OF THE, UH, THE, UM, SIGNALIZATION PROCESS AND INSTALLING THAT AND INSTALLING THE, UM, THOSE ITEMS. BUT WE CAN DO THAT AHEAD OF TIME.
SO, SO THINGS ARE IN THE GROUND.
SO IT'S, SO YOU'RE NOT DIGGING THINGS UP TWICE AND DOING STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO DON'T FORGET YOU'RE BEING SO RECORDING, RECORDED,
BUT, BUT THOSE ARE THINGS, THOSE ARE SOME THINGS THAT, THAT ARE POSSIBLE THAT WE CAN, THAT, THAT, UH, AS, AS THE, UH, THAT THE FILE DEVELOP DEVELOPER OF THE SITE COULD, COULD COORDINATE WITH, UH, COORDINATE CONSTRUCTION EFFORTS AND, AND OTHER THINGS WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF AND THE, AND THE, UH, AND, AND THE ATTACHMENT ENGINEER.
MAKE ME FEEL MUCH MORE BETTER THAT WE'RE GONNA WORK TOGETHER ON THIS THING.
AND, AND THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD REMIND THE BOARD OF, UM, NOT THAT I DON'T FEEL LIKE THIS HAS BEEN VERY AMICABLE, BUT, UM, THIS HAS BEEN ONGOING FOR US SINCE THE SPRING OF 2020, AS I'M SURE MR. BRESNAN AND MR. GRACE CAN ATTEST.
AND WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN VERY DEFERENTIAL TO THE TOWNSHIP IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY WERE SEEKING TO DO, TO THE POINT WHERE WE DELAYED OUR PROJECT TO ALLOW FOR APPRAISALS AND TRAFFIC CIRCLE POTENTIAL CONFIGURATIONS AND EVERYTHING.
SO THIS HAS BEEN A LONG TIME COMING FOR US, AND WE REALLY HAVE, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, PARTICIPATED IN GOOD FAITH WITH THE TOWNSHIP TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR THE RESIDENTS OF THIS TOWNSHIP AT THIS INTERSECTION.
SO WE NEED TO, SO WE NEED TO GET WORKING ON THIS INTERSECTION PERIOD.
[00:35:01]
HOW DO WE COORDINATE? SO WHEN THIS INTERSECTION'S DUG UP JUST THIS, THIS, THE GUY HAND OVER HERE, REGARDLESS WHO PAYS FOR CONDUIT? HOW, HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T MISS THAT? LIKE HOW, HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT THAT HAPPENS? WELL, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND.YOU KNOW, AND I'M SURE JEFF COULD SPEAK TO THIS ABOUT PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND, AND, AND WHAT HAVE YOU.
AND THE, ONCE WE, THE PHA OF BRINGING THE TOWNSHIP PANEL IN THE EARLY PHASE, THE EARLY PHASES OF, UH, GETTING GOING ON A PROJECT.
SO THE FIRST STEP IS GONNA HAVE TO BE PUTTING SOMETHING IN THE BUDGET THAT, THAT STARTS THE FUNDING PROCESS FOR US.
AND I KNOW I JUST SCARED THE CRAP OUT OF TIM
SO THERE'S THAT STEP, IF THAT HAPPENS FOR NEXT YEAR, THEN ANTHONY'S GROUP CAN GET WORKING ON AND GETTING DESIGNED.
AND ONCE IT GETS DESIGNED, IT IS RELATIVELY EASY AT THAT POINT TO GET PENDO TO APPROVE IT AND MOVE IT FORWARD.
A SIX MONTH TIMEFRAME, NINE MONTH TIMEFRAME, PRETTY SHORT.
BUT I, I THINK WE CAN MOVE ALONG AND GET THAT DONE.
AND ONCE WE GET THAT TO THE POINT OF KNOWING WHAT'S GOING IN THE GROUND, THAT'S WHEN MYSELF, JOE ANTHONY CAN COORDINATE WITH WHOEVER'S THEIR EVENTUAL CONSTRUCTION PERSON ON WHAT CAN GO IN THE GROUND WHEN THE COST OF IT AND ALL OF THAT.
SO THE OTHER GOOD THING IS THAT IT'S ALREADY ON PENDAS RADAR, RIGHT? I MEAN, THEY'VE SEEN ALL THIS AND THEY LIKE IT, SO, RIGHT.
AND I'M, I'M KIND OF HOPING THAT MAYBE WE CAN PUSH FOR, EXCUSE ME, PUSH FOR A QUICK GRANT PUSH FOR SOMETHING THAT, THAT THAT'S OUT THERE BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW BAD THIS INTERSECTION IS.
AND, AND IT'S NOT GONNA BE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE, BUT IT'S NOT GONNA BE LIKE 20 BUCKS EITHER.
BUT THE BEST CASE IS IT'S ALL DONE AT ONCE.
AND THAT, OR BEFORE CARS, EXTRA CARS ARE MOVING IN AND OUT.
AND IF, AND IF, AND IF IT GOES INTO THE BUDGET FOR NEXT YEAR, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WILL CERTAINLY BE PUSHING TOWARDS AND ANTHONY WILL BE WORKING TOWARDS AND ALL THAT STUFF.
THAT'S THAT SORT OF THE FIRST STEP IS GETTING THE FUNDING IN PLACE, THE, THE COMMITMENT FROM THE BOARD AT A HEARING.
ONCE THAT'S IN LINE, THEN WE CAN GET TO WORK ON IT ON OUR END.
I MEAN, THERE'S THREE TERRIBLE INTERSECTIONS IN THIS TOWNSHIP AND THIS ONE IS ONE OF THEM.
I I, I LIVE RIGHT DOWN THE STREET, SO I'M, I'M VERY FAMILIAR.
SO WE NEED TO, WE NEED TO WORK ON THIS RIGHT AWAY BECAUSE IF IT STARTS, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IS WE'RE GONNA GET ALL OF THOSE RESIDENTS FROM ORFORD COURT TO COME TO THESE MEETINGS AND GO, WHAT'S GOING ON GUYS? I'M FIXING THIS.
SO THANK YOU FOR, THANK YOU FOR THE OFFER.
SO I WANNA TOUCH ON THE TIMING ALSO.
NICK, I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU STAND WITH YOUR M P D S APPROVAL AND THEN THERE'S THREE PEN OUT PERMITS REQUIRED FOR THIS.
THE DRIVEWAY, THE SEWER AND THE WATER.
SO WE'VE GOTTEN ONE REVIEW, WHICH WE'VE RESUBMITTED BACK TO PROBABLY END OF NOVEMBER.
PROB YOU KNOW, MAYBE EARLY DECEMBER.
WE SHOULD HAVE THOSE PERMITS IN HAND.
SO, UH, SO THEN AT THAT POINT WAS WHEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN AGREEMENTS AND OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT COULD, COULD START UP.
SO, SO LIKE MR. GREG SAID, PROBABLY SPRING IS, IS IS REALISTIC? I WOULD SAY YES.
YOU HAVE A QUESTION? QUESTION.
DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE? SOMEBODY, HELLO
KRISTEN TROUTMAN 1320 BLACKROCK ROAD.
UM, ON THE, I GUESS THE OFFICIAL, NOT OFFICIAL, BUT THE PLAN THAT WAS SHOWN BEFORE, IS THERE ONLY ONE ROAD IN AND OUT OF THIS PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT ONTO LEWIS? I CAN ANSWER THAT THERE.
IF, IF YOU LOOK AT, UM, EASIEST FOR ME 'CAUSE I HAVE ACCESS TO THIS RIGHT HERE IS AN EMERGENCY ACCESS.
THAT, UH, THE FIRE MARSHAL HAS REVIEWED AND APPROVED.
NICK HAS DESIGNED, REVIEWED AND APPROVED THAT.
'CAUSE MY, OKAY, BUT IN MY OPINION, DOING THIS THIS WAY, WITH ONLY THAT ONE IN AND OUT, YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY CREATING A BRAND NEW ORCHARD COURT PROBLEM.
BECAUSE HOW ARE THOSE HOWEVER MANY PEOPLE LIVING THERE GONNA MAKE A LEFT ON THE LEWIS ROAD COMING OUT? THEY'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A SIGNAL AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA HAVE ANY OTHER WAY TO GET IN AND OUT OF THAT DEVELOPMENT.
SO I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER, ANTHONY COULD PROBABLY DO THAT MUCH BETTER.
BUT MY ASSUMPTION IS THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE CREATING GAPS WITH THE INTERSECTION, WITH THE LIT INTERSECTION.
AT THAT POINT, YOU CREATE GAPS THAT ARE GOING MAKE IT EASIER.
NOT SAYING SUPER EASY, BUT IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE THE LEFT OUT OF THERE BECAUSE THERE'S GOING TO BE GAPS FROM, BUT THEY'RE GENERATING.
BUT PEAK SCHOOL TIMES, I MEAN, I'M SURE EVERYBODY MIDDLE LEWIS, BUT THERE'S STILL GOING TO BE HALF.
I'M NOT SAYING IT'S GOING TO BE PERFECT.
THAT, THAT THIS ISN'T THE ULTIMATE, TRUST ME, IF WE COULD DESIGN IT, WE WOULD BE GOING RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF HIS PROPERTY.
AND MR. GREGS DOESN'T WANT THAT.
WE DON'T WANNA SPEND THAT KIND OF MONEY.
SO THIS IS THE BEST SOLUTION WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO COME UP WITH AND WE'RE STILL WORKING TOWARDS IT.
I MEAN, WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF DESIGN WORK TO DO.
BECAUSE, I MEAN, JUST HAVING BEEN ON LEWIS, LIKE WHEN THE SCHOOL POLICE ARE OUT THERE AND LET 10,000 HIGH SCHOOL KIDS OUT, YOU KNOW, AND THAT KIND OF STUFF.
[00:40:01]
UM, IN THE MORNINGS YOU JUST, YOU HAVE ALL THE BUS TRAFFIC AND I MEAN ABSOLUTELY ANYBODY WENT TO AND WHEN NOT TO GO THIS WAY.PEOPLE THAT DON'T WORK REMOTELY, YOU KNOW, WILL HAVE TO MAKE A LEFT IF THEY HAVE TO GO DOWN THIS WAY AND NOT WANT TO BE STUCK ON 4 22.
SO, AND THEN YOU'D STILL HAVE TO GET PAST THE HIGH SCHOOL ANYWAY.
SO AN ANTHONY, COULD THERE BE A, DON'T BLOCK THE BOX RIGHT THERE AT THAT ENTRANCE AND EXIT.
YEAH, WE'VE, WE ACTUALLY COORDINATED THAT, UH, DURING THE PROCESS.
THE, THE
SO THINK ULTIMATELY IT WAS DECIDED NOT TO PROVIDE ONE, UH, AT THAT LOCATION.
I GUESS JUST THERE'S DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET.
I'M NOT SURE IF IT SHOWS UP ON THE SKETCH, BUT WE ALSO, AS PART OF THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WERE DONE NOT TOO LONG AGO, I GUESS SEVERAL YEARS AGO, I GUESS AT THIS POINT, TIME FLIES, BUT ON THE SOUTHBOUND APPROACH OF LEWIS, YOU HAVE THE RUMBLE STRIPS AND THE DRIVER FEEDBACK SIGN.
SO THE DO NOT BLOCK PAPER MARKINGS WOULD'VE CONFLICTED WITH A LOT OF THAT AND REQUIRED SOME OF THOSE THINGS TO BE MOVED AND, AND WHATNOT.
BUT I, IT WAS ULTIMATELY DECIDED THAT GIVEN THE SLIGHT OFF PEAK TIMES FOR THE TRAFFIC LEAVING THE DEVELOPMENT VERSUS SCHOOL PEAK TIMES, THERE'S AN OVERLAP, BUT THEY'RE NOT ENTIRELY AT THE SAME TIME.
AND WITH THE AMOUNTS OF TOWNHOMES THAT WERE PROPOSED, THAT PENNDOT IN OUR OFFICE FELT THAT THERE WOULD, SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT ENOUGH GAPS.
AND THERE WASN'T ANYTHING PROBLEMATIC TO WARRANT REDU REMOVING OR ELIMINATING OR PROHIBITING ANY MOVEMENTS, UH, OUT THERE.
UM, BUT OF COURSE, IF PROBLEMS DO COME UP, THINGS CAN BE CHANGED AND YES.
IN TERMS OF, UH, PAPER MARKING.
SO WE, WE AT LEAST KNOW THAT IF SAY THIS GETS IMPLEMENTED AND IF WE, WE, WE FEEL LIKE POST INSTALLATION A TREATMENT COULD POTENTIALLY BE INSTALLED AND PUT OUT THERE, IT IS AT LEAST GOTTEN KIND OF A GOOD FEEDBACK FROM THE D O T.
UM, ULTIMATELY, LIKE I SAID, FOR THOSE REASONS WE DECIDED NOT TO, BUT THERE WAS NOTHING, UH, THAT WAS RAISED OF CONCERN FOR THE DEPARTMENT ABOUT PUTTING ONE IN SO THAT THAT COULD BE EVALUATED POST CONSTRUCTION OR, OR YOU KNOW, SO YEAH, THERE, THERE'S AN INTERSECTION SIMILAR TO THIS OVER ON INFINITY 23 IN MAINE, AND I FORGET WHAT THE OTHER STREET THAT THERE IS WHERE THEY HAVE A LIGHT TO A LIGHT KIND OF A SITUATION LIKE THIS.
I'VE BEEN THROUGH THAT MANY TIMES.
WELL, COLLEGE, COLLEGE HILLBOROUGH, MAYBE IT'S BOROUGH.
THERE'S A DOUBLE LIGHT AT SEVENTH.
IT JUST SEEMS A LITTLE DIFFERENT CONFIGURATION, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT.
THE, THE, I'M LOOKING AT YOU, JEFF, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE THE RIGHT PERSON.
I'M, I'M GONNA DEFERRING PEOPLE
DOES IT MESS UP THE LIGHT? I'M GONNA, RIGHT.
THAT JUST MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT BETTER, I GUESS WHEN, I THINK WHEN, UM, WHEN ANTHONY'S OFFICE FIRST, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT WHEN THEY FIRST LOOKED AT THIS, UM, DOUBLE LIGHT OPTION, WHICH THEY HAD OBSERVED GOING NEAR THEIR OFFICES IN FORT WASHINGTON, THEY SAID THAT THEY COULD, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS DONE WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THIS WORK THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT HERE.
NOT HAVING TO DO MORE OR TAKE MORE, I DON'T THINK.
WELL, I, I THINK THAT, I THINK WHAT THE SUPERVISORS ARE TALKING ABOUT IS THERE'S A SMALL SECTION OF WHAT I CALL ST.
I KNOW YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT NAME FOR IT.
PEDRO WAS GOING, WHAT'S WRITTEN THERE? OH, IT'S, IT'S NOT SIDES OF THE ST.
BUT, UM, THERE, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE WILL BE A TURN LANE CONFIGURED THERE IF WE GET TO THAT POINT.
THERE'S ALWAYS TAKING, I MEAN, WE CAN ALWAYS GO THROUGH THE TAKING PROCESS TO TAKE THAT PROPERTY IF THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO WORK SOMETHING OUT WITH US, THAT THAT'S, I MEAN, JOE CAN EXPLAIN THAT PROCESS, BUT WITH OR WITHOUT, DOESN'T HINDER THE PROCESS.
I DON'T, I WOULDN'T THINK SO BECAUSE IT'S ONLY A RIGHT TURN LANE.
IT IS NOT JUST HELPS, IT HELPS US FLOW BETTER FAR TO BACK UP TO MAKE THE RIGHT TURN.
THIS GIVES YOU A LITTLE BIT OF A CHANNEL FOR THE RIGHT TURN AS OPPOSED TO NOT.
I'M JUST ANTICIPATING THAT BEING ANOTHER HURDLE TO JUMP OVER AGAIN.
I, I NEED TO LOOK BACK TO THE PLAN FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT FOR ST.
PEDRO WHEN THEY WERE APPROVED.
APPROVED, IF THERE'S RIGHT OF WAY THERE.
WHAT, WHAT'S BEEN OFFERED FOR DEDICATION, WHAT HASN'T BEEN, I THINK THAT BUILDING WAS BUILT SOMETIME IN THE EIGHTIES OR NINETIES.
SO I'D HAVE TO LOOK BACK ON THAT PLAN.
THERE PROBABLY IS RIGHT OF WAY THERE.
IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF WHAT THE PLAN SAYS.
AND THAT, THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY, YOU KNOW, THE SURVEYS, WE, WE WOULD WANT TO GET THAT INFORMATION SO THAT WE COULD START FIGURING OUT THOSE IMPACTS AHEAD OF TIME.
SO WE, LAST THING WE WANT TO DO IS START PUTTING PEN TO PAPER AND GETTING, UH,
[00:45:01]
HARD ON ENGINEERING WITHOUT HAVING AN EVALUATION OF WHAT THE IMPACT I GUESS WOULD BE AND YOU WOULD GET THAT FROM THEM.SO I, I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, THE SPIRIT OF COOPERATION, I MAYBE THIS, UH, IF WE COULD GET A CAD FILE FROM THE APPLICANT TEAM, IT WOULD CERTAINLY HELP US GET MOVING ALONG A LOT FASTER THAN MOBILIZING A SURVEY TEAM AND WHICH, YOU KNOW, COULD BE DONE FAIRLY QUICKLY, BUT THAT TAKES A LOT OF TIME TO MOBILIZE AND, BUT AT AT THE VERY LEAST, A CAD FILE WOULD HELP US WITH THE, WITH THE SURVEY THAT WAS DONE FOR THE TOWN HOME DEVELOPMENT, IF WE COULD AT LEAST HAVE THAT CAD FILE.
UH, THEY HAVE ENOUGH SURVEY I THINK TO CUT SUPPLEMENTED WITH SOME FIELD INVESTIGATION OF OURS THAT I THINK WE CAN START LOOKING AT SOME OF THOSE EFFECTS EARLY ON.
AND, AND THE CAD FILE, WE'RE ABSOLUTELY WILLING TO SHARE, BUT I, I JUST THINK IT NEEDS TO BE PART OF THE JOINT, UM, DISCUSSION REGARDING THE OFFSET BECAUSE THE DIVINE, THE DESIGN FEES WERE PART OF WHAT WE WERE SORT OF TALKING ABOUT OFFSETTING FOR BECAUSE WE HAD DONE THE OFFSITE DESIGN FOR THE INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS.
WELL, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DISAGREEMENT ABOUT THAT.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SYNCHRONIZE WITH ONE AT THE HIGH SCHOOL END AND SO THAT OR WOULD BE SYNCHRONIZED YEAH, WE WOULD ANTICIPATE COORDINATING THOSE.
UH, AND ANOTHER EXAMPLE THAT WAS ACTUALLY THAT WE TOOK FROM THE, IT WAS RECENTLY CONSTRUCTED, THINK WITHIN THE LAST YEAR, RIGHT OUTSIDE OF OUR FORT WASHINGTON OFFICE, WHERE THERE'S A VERY SIMILAR, IF, IF I WERE TO, I DON'T HAVE IT WITH ME, IF I WERE TO TAKE THAT SIGNAL PLAN THAT WAS DONE, IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE EXACT REPLICA OF THIS INTERSECTION AND HOW IT WOULD OPERATE TO OFFSET SIGNALS.
AND SO WE, WE, AGAIN, WE HAVEN'T GONE INTO A LOT OF THE DETAILS, BUT IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT POSSIBLY LOOK AT THREE PHASE SIGNAL OPERATION OUT HERE TO GET IT ALL TO WORK AND
UH, I APPRECIATE YOUR WORK WITH PENDO AND I WILL POINT OUT TO THE BOARD THAT THIS STUFF IN BLUE, WE'RE NOT HAVING TO TAKE OR PAY FOR THAT.
UH, THIS DEVELOPER IS GIVING US THAT ROADWAY AND THAT WILL ACTUALLY IMPROVE THIS INTERSECTION BEFORE ANY SIGNALIZATION OR NOT JUST BY SIMPLY WIDENING THE TURNING RADIUS IN THAT TERM.
BUT IN ANY EVENT, I APPRECIATE THE WORK YOU GUYS DID WITH PENDO AND, UH, THERE'S NO MORE QUESTIONS UP.
I'M READY TO ENTERTAIN MOTION.
I, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION TO ADOPT, UH, RESOLUTION 2023 DASH 34 GRANTING FINAL LAND DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL FOR SOUTH LEWIS INVESTMENT PARTNERS, 4 61 SOUTH LEWIS ROAD.
SECOND THAT I HAVE A MOTION, A SECOND TO ADOPT RESOLUTION 2023 DASH 34 GRANTING FINAL LAND DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL FOR SOUTH LOUIS INVESTMENT FARMERS 4 61 SOUTH LOUIS ROAD.
ANY OPPOSED? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
UM, I KNOW YOU GUYS SAW THIS IN YOUR PACKET.
UH, WE'VE REWRITTEN OUR GRASS AND WEED HEIGHT ORDINANCE PRIMARILY TO EXCLUDE, UM, NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES FROM THE EIGHT INCH REQUIREMENT.
I THINK I, AS I READ IT, IT'S, IT'S, UH, 12 INCHES DOWN OR MAYBE EVEN A LITTLE MORE.
THEY CAN GO AS LONG AS THEY MAINTAIN 10 FOOT BORDERS AROUND WALKWAYS, AROUND BUILDINGS AND, UH, AROUND ROADWAYS WHERE THERE'S A SIGHTLINE ISSUE.
UM, AND THIS IS SO THAT THE SCHOOL CAN ALLOW SOME OF THEIR FIELDS TO GO FALLOW AND, UH, AND PERHAPS SOME OTHER, UH, NON-RESIDENTIAL, UH, UH, UM, PROPERTIES TOO.
BUT, UH, SO ANYWAY, WE'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ENACT ORDINANCE.
SO YES, THE EXISTING ORDINANCE IS 12 INCHES EVERYWHERE.
UM, THE NEW PROPOSED ORDINANCE FOR RESIDENTIAL AREAS, UM, NOTHING ABOVE EIGHT INCHES EXCEPT TREES, ORNAMENTAL TREES AND BUSHES AND VEGETABLES.
UM, SO EVERYTHING ON A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY HAS TO BE LONG LIVING ASTROTURF.
UM, I SUBMITTED SOME INFORMATION TO THE BOARD, UM, THAT I WAS DISAPPOINTED BUT NOT SURPRISED, WASN'T INCLUDED IN YOUR PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS.
UM, BUT I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE THIS ORDINANCE, THIS PROPOSED ORDINANCE GOING BACKWARDS.
UM, IT SEEMS TO BE AIMING FOR LIKE A 1960S SUBDIVISION VISION.
UM, AND I THINK I DON'T, UNDER, UM, IT SAYS IT, IT SAYS IT DOES NOT APPLY TO ORNAMENTAL DECORATIVE SHRUBS OR EDIBLE VEGETABLE PLANTS, BUSHES OR TREES.
YOU'RE SAYING EVERYTHING HAS TO BE EIGHT INCHES, BUT THAT'S NOT, SO IT SAYS THAT, UM, ORNAMENTAL TREES AND SHRUBS, IT DOESN'T
[00:50:01]
SAY ORNAMENTAL PLANTS.THIS REQUIREMENT DOES NOT APPLY TO EDIBLE VEGETABLE PLANTS NOR TO ORNAMENTAL OR DECORATIVE SHRUBS, BUSHES, OR TREES.
YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOUR OBJECTION IS THAT IT DOESN'T SAY ORNAMENTAL BUSH? NO, I'M SAYING IT BY LISTING THOSE VERY SPECIFIC EXCLUSIONS.
EVERYTHING ELSE IS INCLUDED IN THE EIGHT INCHES.
FRUIT'S NOT IN THERE, VINES AREN'T IN THERE.
BUT BEYOND THAT, WHY ARE WE GOING BACKWARDS? WHY ARE WE SO, UM, SUPERVISOR STARLING, YOU WERE RECENTLY AT AN EVENT WITH REPRESENTATIVE WEBSTER FOR HIS RIPARIAN BUFFER BILL.
UM, THIS WOULD REQUIRE ANY STREAM ON A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TO BE MOWED TO THE BANK.
UM, IT WOULD SAVE THE SEWER AUTHORITY SOME MONEY 'CAUSE THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE MOWING THEIR EASEMENTS ANYMORE IN THOSE AREAS.
BUT, UM, THIS, THIS IS, THIS IS THE WRONG DIRECTION
UM, AND IT, IT'S, IT'S NOT NECESSARY.
THE EXISTING ORDINANCE HAS, UH, A PHRASE IN IT FOR USEFUL PURPOSES THAT THE, THE LAWNS CAN EXCEED THE HEIGHT.
IT, UH, USEFUL PURPOSES IS A PHRASE THAT STRIKES FEAR IN ME AS, BECAUSE IT'S SO SUBJECTIVE AS TO WHAT'S USEFUL TO SOMEBODY.
AND I'M THE ONE THAT'S BEEN ARGUING IT.
AND I, YOU KNOW, I, I'M NOT AWARE OF, I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT ANY ARGUMENT ABOUT ANY OF THIS OR INPUT ABOUT ANY OF IT.
BUT IF YOU WANT TO FOCUS ON THIS, THIS ORDINANCE WAS, WAS NOT A A STEP BACKWARDS NOR INTENDED AS A STEP BACKWARDS.
BUT BY SPLITTING OUT RESIDENTIAL FROM NON-RESIDENTIAL, CERTAIN CHANGES HAD TO BE MADE.
AND, AND THERE'S, WELL ACTUALLY ON STREAM BANKS, MOST OF THE STREAMS THAT RUN THROUGH NEIGHBORHOODS IN THIS TOWNSHIP ARE IN PROTECTED WET PLANS.
AND IF OWNERS ARE MOWING RIGHT TO THE EDGE OF THE BANK, THEN THEY'RE IN VIOLATION OF THE WETLAND THAT THEY PURCHASED WITH THEIR PROPERTY.
AND I KNOW THAT THAT OCCURS, IT OCCURS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT I'M JUST TELLING YOU, THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE MINE RIGHT TO THE STREET.
MY STREAM BANK IS PARTIALLY WETLAND.
UM, WELL IT'S DESIGN, IT WAS DESIGNATED ON OUR PROPERTY PLOTS WHEN WE PURCHASED OUR HOMES.
SO IT WAS QUITE CLEAR WHAT, WHAT THE WETLANDS WERE AND WEREN'T.
BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, PEOPLE DO ABUSE THAT AND THEY GO AHEAD AND MOW IT ANYWAY, TURN INTO LAWN OR WHATEVER.
BUT, UH, I, I DON'T THINK THIS WAS ATTEMPTED A STEP BACKWARDS.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS ALLOW SOME FIELDS TO GO FOUL IN IT TODAY MODE.
AND I, I UNDERSTAND THAT AND I APPRECIATE IT.
BUT I THINK, AND I UNDERSTAND THE, THE LANGUAGE AND THE EXISTING IS, YOU KNOW, VERY, IT CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS, BUT USEFUL PURPOSE, ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS SHOULD BE A USEFUL PURPOSE.
YOU LET THE FIELDS GO FALLOW, THEY'RE GOING TO SLOW RUNOFF, THEY'RE GOING TO IMPROVE INFILTRATION, RIGHT? THEY'RE GOING TO PROTECT THE STREAM QUALITY.
THEY'RE GOING TO IMPROVE, UM, THE BIODIVERSITY OF THE AREA.
THEY'RE GONNA SERVE AS CONNECTORS FROM, YOU ALL ARE IN FAVOR OF OPEN SPACE.
OPEN SPACE ISN'T JUST ONE BIG FIELD THAT YOU PRESERVE.
WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANTED, YOU THINK SHOULD BE IN HERE? NOT, NOT JUST OBJECTIVE STUFF.
NOT, NOT IT SERVES AN ENVIRONMENTAL PURPOSE.
BUT YOU STARTED TO SAY SPECIFIC THINGS THAT WOULD BE EXAMPLES OF THOSE THINGS.
WHY IS, WHY IS ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFIT A NON-STARTER? BECAUSE IT'S SUBJECTIVE.
THIS IS A GRASS ORDINANCE WHERE SOMEBODY HAS TO GO OUT AND DECIDE WHETHER TO ISSUE A CITATION AND NOT GET INTO AN ARGUMENT WITH EVERY NEIGHBOR PERSON ON THEIR INTERPRETATION THAT SERVES AN ENVIRONMENTAL PURPOSE.
BUT IF YOU WANT TO SUGGEST SPECIFIC EXAMPLES, WHICH YOU STARTED TO DO, ONE WAS FLOWERS AND I THINK YOU SAID FINES.
WHAT WOULD THOSE EXAMPLES BE OF WHAT YOU THINK IS, I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE THAT WAY BECAUSE AS SOON AS YOU START DOING THAT, THEN SOMETHING ELSE IS EXCLUDED AND YOU'RE STILL GONNA GET PEOPLE ARGUING.
AND BEYOND THAT, EVEN GOING BEYOND, IF WE DON'T WANNA TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHY ASTROTURF IS NOT THE WAY TO GO, I WILL ARGUE THAT THIS IS AN ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS DIVISION.
YOU'RE SAYING THAT ANYTHING THAT IS NON-RESIDENT, PRIMARILY USED FOR RESIDENTIAL CAN HAVE THIS NON MODE AREA.
WHAT SPECIFIC WORDING WOULD YOU LIKE ADDED? I WOULD LIKE THE EXISTING ORDINANCE TO BE LEFT IN PLACE AND LET THE SCHOOLS NOT MOW.
THIS IS YOU SAYING THAT A NON-RESIDENTIAL PARCEL CANNOT MOW, BUT A RESIDENTIAL PARCEL HAS TO MOW.
SO IF THE NON-RESIDENTIAL PARCEL IS RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO THE RESIDENTIAL PARCEL, HOW, HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THAT DIFFERENTIATION IF YOU'RE SUPPOSEDLY PROTECTING THE SAFETY, HEALTH AND WELFARE? IF, AND THERE ARE TWO ON MY STREET THAT ARE, AND ONE OF THEM IS OWNED BY THE TOWNSHIP.
SO THOSE PARCELS WOULD BE PERMITTED TO GROW WITHOUT ANY MOWING AND RIGHT UP AGAINST A PROPERTY THAT IS A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY.
SO HOW THERE ARE DIFFERENT ZONING AND NON ZONING GOALS THAT APPLY BY THE HUNDREDS OR
[00:55:01]
THOUSANDS DIFFERENTLY TO RESIDENTIAL THAN NON-RESIDENTIAL.I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT YOUR JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS ONE IS HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE.
SO WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU PROTECTING AGAINST BY REQUIRING MOWING? ALRIGHT, I, YOU KNOW, I FOR ONE, I MEAN I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO, THIS IS A SIMPLE GRASS CUTTING HEIGHT ORDINANCE.
UM, I THINK IF YOU, BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE I THINK IF YOU, IF I THINK IF YOU WANT TO OFFER SPECIFIC LANGUAGE THAT YOU WANT TO SEE YOU, YOU WERE OFFERED THAT MS. HIGGINS OFFERED YOU THAT OPPORTUNITY AND YOU SAID YOU JUST WANT TO LEAVE IT AS IT IS AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT CAN'T DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO IS THAT THEY CAN, I I AM SAYING THAT THE LANGUAGE IN THE EXISTING ORDINANCE ALLOWS FOR NOT MOWING.
IF THERE IS A GOOD REASON TO DO SO AND IT IS A GOOD REASON NOT TO MOW, AND I'M SAYING THAT I'M THE ONE THAT'S GOING TO GET A WELL, YOU THINK THAT SHOULD APPLY TO RESIDENTIAL TOO.
SO EVERY PERSON WHO DOESN'T WANT TO MOW IN EVERY H O A WITH RULES ABOUT GRASS CART, THE HOAS HAVE THEIR RULES.
AND FROM WHAT I CAN SEE, THIS TOWNSHIP IS PREDOMINANTLY HOAS.
WE, WE WENT INTO THIS VERY SPECIFICALLY TO GRANT AN EXEMPTION TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT SO THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO MOW CERTAIN FIELDS.
AND IT IS, LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S ENVIRONMENTALLY MORE SOUND TO DO IT THAT WAY.
I WOULD SUGGEST, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE PASS THIS ORDINANCE TONIGHT AND THEN IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WORK THROUGH OUR ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL.
WE CAN PASS A NEW ONE NEXT YEAR.
I THOUGHT ALL WE NEED SPECIFIC LANGUAGE AND A SPECIFIC ORDINANCE TO PASS.
I MEAN, WE NEED AN ALTERNATIVE.
AND RIGHT NOW WE ALREADY HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRES MOWING IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS.
I STILL WANT MY NEIGHBORS TO MOW THEIR LAWNS.
I MEAN, UH, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA CHANGE EVERYBODY'S GRASS LAWNS TO SOMETHING ELSE OVERNIGHT.
MINE'S BEEN CHANGING FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS AND YOU PASSED THIS TONIGHT AND I'M GONNA GET A VIOLATION NOTICE NEXT WEEK.
I CAN GUARANTEE IT BECAUSE I'VE SEEN THE KARENS AND I'VE ALREADY GOTTEN TWO THAT I'VE HAD TO ARGUE AGAINST.
THE FIRST WAS COMPLETELY WRONG, UM, BECAUSE AT THE TIME THERE WAS NO MOWING ORDINANCE AND WHAT'S IN PLACE NOW WAS PASSED BECAUSE OF THAT.
SO DO YOU LIVE IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD? I LIVE WHAT SIZE LOT DO YOU YOU LIVE ON? I HAVE TWO AND THREE QUARTER ACRES.
I LIVE IN AN OLD FARMHOUSE, AND THE FARM WAS TURNED INTO TWO OTHER DIVISIONS.
YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE TOWNSHIP IS SIDE YOU FROM NOT MOWING? YEP.
BUT I'M ALSO SAYING THAT ACROSS THE STREET THERE'S A FIELD OF 15 ACRES THAT'S NEVER MOWED.
THERE'S ALSO A HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET THAT DOESN'T MOW, BUT HE'S BEHIND TREES SO NOBODY SEES IT.
WELL, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING US TO DO BY NOT PASSING THIS AND ALLOWING THE OLD ORDINANCE TO STAY IN PLACE WOULD BE THEN SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT THAT WE JUST WOULDN'T ENFORCE AGAINST.
IT'S, IT'S APPLYING, YOU'RE RIGHT.
IT REQUIRES SUBJECTIVE EVALUATION.
IT'S APPLYING THE ORDINANCE AS IT'S WRITTEN.
THERE ARE USEFUL PURPOSES TO NOT MOWING.
SO LET THE SCHOOL DISTRICT NOT MOW UNDER THE EXISTING ORDINANCE.
I CERTAINLY DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM ADDING THE WORD FLOWERS TO WHERE, TO WHERE IT SAYS ORNAMENTAL DECORATIVE SHRUBS.
I BELIEVE YOU ALSO REFERENCED VINES.
THAT'S NOT, IT'S NOT WHAT I'M ASKING.
YOU WANNA GO THERE, YOU GO THERE.
THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'VE REDUCED THE HEIGHT FROM 12 INCHES TO EIGHT INCHES.
WHY? I DON'T THINK WE DID THAT.
THE EXISTING ORDINANCE IS 12 INCHES EVERYWHERE.
I'D LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION IF, IF, IF YOU'RE BEING CITED FOR A VIOLATION UNDER THE ORDINANCE, THE WAY THAT IT IS NOW, THE WAY THAT IT'S WRITTEN NOW, AND I DISAGREED AND THEY BACKED OFF.
I'M, I'M, I'M JUST ASKING YOU A QUESTION.
'CAUSE PERSONALLY, I'M GONNA PASS THIS THING ON, ON MY, THAT'S HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT.
BUT IF YOU'RE BEING, IF YOU'RE BEING CITED NOW UNDER THE ORDINANCE, THE WAY THAT IT'S WRITTEN NOW, WILL YOU NOT BE CITED UNDER THE NEW ORDINANCE? OR WILL YOU STILL BE CITED UNDER THE NEW ORDINANCE? I WAS CITED AND I WAS, UH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, THE PROPER TERMINOLOGY IS.
I SAID, NO, I AM NOT OUT OF COMPLIANCE AND THE TOWNSHIP BACKED OFF.
SO I'M NOT OUT OF COMPLIANCE CURRENTLY.
SO IF YOU'RE NOT OUT OF COMPLIANCE ON THE WAY THAT THE ORDINANCES NOW, I ABSOLUTELY WILL BE WHEN IT'S PASSED.
WHEN, WHEN WE PASS THIS, THIS EVENING.
WILL YOU BE OUT OF COMPLIANCE? YEP.
AND, AND, AND YOU, SO THE GRASS DOESN'T GROW.
YOU'VE MAINTAINED IT AT LIKE 10, 11 INCHES.
AND THE EIGHT IS THE, OR IT JUST NATURALLY WE'LL GET TO 10 11 OR IT DOESN'T NO, I HAVE A MEADOW AT THIS POINT.
[01:00:01]
GRASSES.I HAVE NATURAL VEGETATION FLOWERS RUSHES, SEGS.
WELL, AND THE PROSECUTORIAL DISCRETION THAT YOU'RE ASKING BE EXERCISED AGAINST THE SCHOOL DISTRICT COULD JUST BE EXERCISED RELATIVE TO YOU AND YOUR ESTABLISHED MEADOW.
AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE CITED RIGHT.
IF I PROSECUTE YOUR PROSECUTORIAL DISCRETION WITH AN ORDINANCE, IT'S TO ANY ORDINANCE.
SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THE NEW ONE HAS NEW STANDARDS.
YOU'RE SAYING LEAVE THE ORDINANCE ALONE AND JUST DON'T ENFORCE AGAINST THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.
AND I'M SAYING DON'T ENFORCE AFFIRM THAT THEY ARE IN COMPLIANCE BECAUSE IT IS A USEFUL PURPOSE TO NOT MOW WHERE IT'S POSSIBLE.
YOU'RE GONNA PASS IT, YOU'RE GONNA PASS IT.
UM, BECAUSE I DO THINK IT'S ARBITRARY TO PUSH US TO DROP THE RESIDENTIAL HEIGHT AND SAY THAT A NON-RESIDENTIAL PARCEL RIGHT NEXT TO A RESIDENTIAL PARCEL CAN BE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
IF YOU CAN'T CITE WHAT THE SAFETY, HEALTH AND WELFARE EFFECT OF TALL GRASS IS, UM, THEN HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT IT NEEDS TO BE I CAN, I'M JUST, IT'S TAKING UP TOO MUCH TIME.
I MEAN, IT WOULD JUST BE ANOTHER SCHOLARLY DEBATE.
THERE ARE WELL-KNOWN CODE REASONS TO NOT HAVE TALL GRASS IN RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
BUT SO THEN HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY ALLOWING A NON-RESIDENTIAL PARCEL TO HAVE THAT SAME, TO HAVE HIGH VEGETATION WHEN THEY'RE IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD? THE ORDINANCE SAYS IT HAS TO BE 10 FEET BACK THOUGH, RIGHT? FROM THEIR BUILDINGS? THAT'S IT.
OH, FROM THE BUILDINGS AND ROADWAYS AND ROADWAYS? NO, IT SAYS ROADWAYS.
IF YOU, IF IT'S A VISIBILITY ISSUE, IT DOESN'T EVEN REQUIRE THE ROADWAYS.
BUT EVEN SO TO SAY ROADWAYS AND PROPERTY LINES, I THOUGHT IT DID.
THAT WAY IT DOESN'T, BUT UP AGAINST THE PROPERTIES.
WITHIN 10 FEET OF ANY BUILDING STRUCTURE, STREET ALLEY, SIDEWALK, OR WALKING PATH.
EVEN SO, IT'S STILL RIGHT NOW AS IT IS RIGHT UP AGAINST ANOTHER PROPERTY, WHETHER THEIR STRUCTURE IS, IF THEIR STRUCTURE IS WITHIN 10 FEET OF THE PROPERTY LINE, I GUESS THEY'D HAVE TO MOW THE PROPERTY LINE.
SO AGAIN, YOU'RE SAYING VERMIN, INFESTATIONS ARE A RISK OF HIGH VEGETATION, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO ALLOW THAT HIGH VEGETATION IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA AS LONG AS THAT PARCEL DOESN'T HAVE A RESIDENTIAL USE.
AND YOU'RE GOING TO REQUIRE MOWING REPAIR IN AREAS BECAUSE THIS ORDINANCE REQUIRES EVERYTHING TO BE MOWED.
YOU'RE GOING TO REQUIRE YOU, YOU WANNA ADD FLOWERS AND VINES AND REVISE THIS.
AND IF YOU PASS THIS, I WILL GO OUT TOMORROW AND I WILL START DOCUMENTING, BECAUSE I ASSUME THAT I'M GONNA GET NAILED.
CAN WE TABLE THIS AND, AND WRESTLE WITH SOME VERBIAGE? SURE.
I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE TABLE THIS FOR THE TV.
I HAVE A MOTION, A SECOND TO TABLE RESOLUTION 6 0 2 PERTAINING TO GRASS AND WEED HEIGHT.
MAY CAN I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT, FROM WHAT I READ IT, THE ORDINANCE IS, IS, UH, ADDRESS PLEASE BILL FELTON, UH, 1 33 OLD STATE ROAD.
IT IT'S JUST 10 FEET BACK THAT THE MOWING REQUIREMENT.
SO IF, IF YOU, THE REST OF YOUR YARD IS GROWING, IT'S ONLY FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.
RIGHT? SO WHAT HAPPENS ON A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY? ASTRO TURF, NATURAL GRASS.
I THINK, I THINK THE ENVIRON WE PUT, WE PUT IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL BOARDS, WE PUT THAT IN PLACE FOR A REASON.
AND THIS IS ONE OF THOSE REASONS.
SO I I I WOULD LIKE TO JUST I AGREE.
WELL, WE COULD TABLE IT, DIS TABLE IT AND GET SOME CONSULTATION AND, AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE.
THERE'S PROBABLY SOME LANGUAGE WE COULD DO TO KIND OF FIND SOME COMMON GROUND HERE.
YEAH, I MEAN, I READ IT THAT IT WAS ONLY REQUIRED 10 FOOT BACK.
SO I GUESS I, I I'M NOT RIGHT WITH THAT INTERPRETATION.
THANK YOU BILL FOR TAKING IT ON.
IN THE MEANWHILE, WE CAN STILL LET, I MEAN, DO WE STILL WANT TO ACCOMMODATE THE SCHOOL? I MEAN, HOW DO WE DO THAT? I WOULD, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT.
THAT WOULD BE NON ENFORCEMENT, I GUESS SO.
BUT THAT, THAT'S NOT GONNA BE TILL NEXT SUMMER.
[01:05:01]
IT'S ONLY SUMMERTIME PROJECT FOR THAT.SO THEY'LL, THEY'LL MOW IN THE SCHOOL YEAR.
UH, CONSIDER AN ACT, AN ACTING ORDINANCE 6 0 3 PERTAINING TO TRASH AND RECYCLING COLLECTION.
WHAT'S THIS ONE ABOUT? THIS, THIS WAS, UH, THIS IS, UH, ACTUALLY AN UPDATE OF THE ENTIRE, UM, RECYCLING ORDINANCE TO COMPLY WITH THE MOST RE RECENT ORDINANCES FROM OTHER TOWNS THAT HAVE HAD UNDERGONE D E P REVIEW.
UM, WE, THIS WAS ORIGINALLY INITIATED BY THE, UM, SLOW DOWN WITH THE PICKUP FROM ONE OF THE HAULERS.
AND THEN WE WERE JUST DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT TO CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF TIME, YOU KNOW, FOR A PICKUP, THE ONE WEEK VERSUS TWO WEEK THING.
UM, THEN ALONG THE WAY THE ORDINANCE WAS JUST CLEANED UP OVERALL BECAUSE IT WAS, IT WAS OUT OF DATE.
AND THE MORE MODERN, THIS IS A MORE MODERN VERSION IN THE SENSE THAT IT GOES THROUGH DIFFERENT, UM, TYPES OF FACILITY AND WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO FOR EACH.
SO IT'S MORE SPECIFIC THAN THE OLD ONE.
DOES IT TALK ABOUT, IF THEY DON'T PICK UP WHAT WE WOULD DO AS A TOWNSHIP? 'CAUSE I THINK THAT THE LAST TIME WE HAD A DISCUSSION, WE WEREN'T SURE IF WE WANTED TO PUT THE WORDS IN THERE BECAUSE ARE WE EVER EVEN GONNA ENFORCE IT? WELL, TO BE IN A, TO BE A ENFORCEABLE OR TO BE A VALID ORDINANCE, IT HAS TO HAVE PENALTY PROVISIONS.
SO IT DOES HAVE PENALTY PROVISIONS.
AND AS WE DISCUSSED, UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SINCE WE DON'T HAVE MUNICIPAL PICKUP, THAT EACH, EACH HOMEOWNER WOULD BE THE ONE IN VIOLATION.
BUT THERE'S NO GETTING AROUND THAT, THAT WHEN THEY HAVE, WHEN WE HAVE CONTRACT INDIVIDUALLY CONTRACTED PICKUP, THERE WAS A, THERE WAS A, A CHAPTER OF THE OLD ORDINANCE THAT ALSO HAD CHA, UH, CHAPTER IN VERSE AGAINST THE HAULERS AND WHAT THEY HAD TO DO AND GET A SPECIAL REGISTRATION FROM YOU, THE TOWNSHIP.
AND WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THEM IF THEY DIDN'T PICK UP.
ALL OF THAT WAS PREEMPTED BY THE STATE.
SO YOUR LOCAL ORDINANCE CAN NO LONGER HAVE ALL THAT STUFF.
IF I RECALL, WE WERE JUST ALIGNING OUR ORDINANCE WITH, WAS IT STATE? YES.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ENACT ORDINANCE 6 0 3 PERTAINING TO TRASH AND RECYCLING COLLECTION.
I HAVE A MOTION AND A DEFENDANT A SECOND TO ENACT ORDINANCE 6 0 3 PERTAINING TO TRASH AND RECYCLING COLLECTION.
AND, UH, MOTION TO ADOPT RESOLUTION 2023 DASH 35 AUTHORIZING THE SOLICITOR TO PROCEED WITH EMINENT DOMAIN TO ACQUIRE A UTILITY EASEMENT ON A PORTION OF A PROPERTY AT 12 NORTH TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD.
UM, I'M IN THE PROCESS OF OBTAINING SEVERAL EASEMENTS FOR THAT PROJECT AND, UM, ONE PERSON HAS ALREADY SAID HE ABSOLUTELY WON'T AGREE TO GO ALONG.
SO YOU'VE ALREADY GIVEN ME AUTHORIZATION TO USE EMINENT DOMAIN WITH HIS, UM, THESE HOMEOWNERS.
UM, THEY, THEY JUST HAVE GONE SILENT.
THEY HAVE NOT RESPONDED, UM, TO PHONE CALLS, MAIL, CERTIFIED MAIL, HAND DELIVERY.
UM, THEY'RE JUST NOT RESPONDING.
AREN'T THESE PEOPLE WHO REQUESTED THE SEWER TO GO IN? NO.
WELL, THERE'S, THERE'S DIFFERENT LEVELS OF EXCITEMENT OVER THE SEWER GOING IN.
IT DEPENDS WHICH PROPERTY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WERE THERE ABOUT ORIGINALLY LIKE FIVE OR SIX? THERE'S A TOTAL OF FIVE, I THINK, TOM.
YEAH, THERE'S A TOTAL OF FIVE.
THREE OF THEM ARE IN THE PROCESS OF BEING SIGNED, UM, EITHER HAPPILY OR GRUDGINGLY.
AND THEN THESE PEOPLE, WE JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT'S UP WITH THEM.
WHAT DO YOU DO IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT? WELL, I'D HAVE TO DO PROOF BY, UH, SERVICE BY PUBLICATION WHEN I FILED THE EMINENT DOMAIN.
UM, IT'S COMPLICATED AND I'M STILL GONNA TRY TO GET AHOLD OF THEM BEFORE I GET TO GET TO THAT.
ARE THE THREE THAT WANT THE SEWER IN THE LINE? I MEAN, ARE THEY NEXT DOOR TO EACH OTHER AND THE OTHER TWO ARE SOMEWHERE ELSE? OR ARE THEY PATCHWORK? WELL, WE NEED ALL OF 'EM TO MAKE IT WORK.
SO I DON'T REMEMBER WHETHER IT'S THE THREE IN IN LINE IN AGREEMENT OR WHICHEVER, BUT WE NEED ALL OF 'EM.
I THINK IT'S SOMETHING LIKE EVERY OTHER ONE.
AND THE PERSON WHO NEEDS THE SEWER IS AT THE END.
SO, AND AND HE'S THE ONE WHO SAYS, NO, YOU CAN'T COME HERE.
IT'S THE ONE WHO'S DRIVING IT IS AT THE END OF THE LINE.
THE GUY WHO SAYS NO SAYS THAT HE HAD ALREADY DESIGNED HIS OWN LAYOUT FOR, FOR A SEWER CONNECTION THAT HE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY ON.
AND THEN YOU CAME IN WITH YOUR OWN SEWER SUGGESTION AND HE WANTS TO BE REIMBURSED FOR THE MONEY HE SPENT.
SO DID HE TELL YOU HOW MUCH HE SPENT? UM,
[01:10:01]
I THINK IT WAS BETWEEN SIX AND $7,000.SO WHO KNOWS, BEFORE IT'S ALL OVER, MAYBE WE WILL REACH AN ACCOMMODATION WITH 'EM.
I DON'T KNOW, YOUR HONOR, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT RESOLUTION 2023 DASH 35 AUTHORIZING THE SOLICITOR TO PROCEED THE EMINENT DOMAIN TO ACQUIRE UTILITY EASEMENT ON A PORTION OF A PROPERTY AT 12 NORTH TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD.
ALRIGHT, I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO ADOPT RESOLUTION 2023 DASH 35 AUTHORIZING THE SOLICITOR TO PROCEED WITH EMINENT DOMAIN TO ACQUIRE A UTILITY EASEMENT ON A PORTION OF THE PROPERTY AT 12 NORTH TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD.
ANY OPPOSED? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
[NEW BUSINESS (ACTION/DISCUSSION ITEMS)]
NEW BUSINESS.AND REMEMBER, THIS IS WHERE WE MADE A FEW CHANGES TO OUR AGENDA AT THE BEGINNING.
SO ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, UH, TIM'S GONNA REVIEW THE PRELIMINARY 2024 OPERATING A CAPITAL BUDGET, BUT WE WILL NOT HAVE A MOTION TO AUTHORIZE ADVERTISEMENT TONIGHT, RIGHT, TIM? THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, I WANT TO JUST, UH, ACKNOWLEDGE, UH, TWO PEOPLE WITH ME TONIGHT.
UH, SCOTT BARRETT AND STEVE CARR, UH, FROM T B A, OUR FINANCIAL CONSULTANTS WHO, WHO HAVE BEEN HELPING US, UH, UH, RESTRUCTURE THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT.
THAT'S ONE REASON WE'RE GETTING THE, UH, BUDGET STARTED EARLY JUST TO KNOW WHERE WE STAND, UM, FINANCIALLY.
AND, UH, WANTED TO JUST GO FOR THE FIRST SLIDE.
THIS IS GONNA BE VERY HIGH LEVEL REVIEW.
UH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE THREE WORKSHOPS, UM, IN SEPTEMBER AND TWO IN, UH, ONE IN SEPTEMBER AND TWO IN OCTOBER, WHERE WE'LL BE GETTING MORE INTO THE WEEDS, UM, WITH EACH DEPARTMENT.
I, I THINK OUR FIRST MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 28TH, UH, WE'LL BE TALKING MORE ABOUT LONG-TERM, UH, FINANCING ISSUES AND MORE ADMINISTRATION ISSUES AND FORECASTING.
UM, I THINK OCTOBER, UH, OCTOBER 3RD, WE'LL BE HAVING A PLANNING NIGHT, UM, PUBLIC WORKS AND PARTS NIGHT, UH, ON, ON ALL ON A LOT OF THOSE AND AN IT NIGHT.
AND THEN OCTOBER 5TH, WE'LL BE WINDING DOWN OUR WORKSHOPS, UH, TO TALK ABOUT POLICE AND FIRE.
AND THEN A WRAP UP, UM, WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IN THE TIMELINE.
UH, WE'RE RIGHT NOW WE'RE, I'M PRESENTING THE PRELIMINARY BUDGET.
UH, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS AFTER THESE WORKSHOPS, UM, WE'LL DO ONE LAST PRESENTATION, OR IT WON'T BE A PRESENTATION.
IT'S MORE OF A, WHERE WE STAND AFTER THE WORKSHOPS AND WE'LL DO OUR OFFICIAL BUDGET ADVERTISEMENT ON OCTOBER 16TH.
THAT'S WHEN THE 20 DAY CLOCK GETS STARTED.
AND WE'LL, UM, PROB WE'LL BE AHEAD OF SCHEDULE, NOT UNDER THE GUN LIKE WE HAVE BEEN IN PRIOR YEARS TO GET THIS BUDGET ADOPTED, UM, IN EARLY, UH, DECEMBER.
SO THERE'LL BE PLENTY OF TIME FOR THIS TO BE ON THE WEBSITE AND FOR THE PUBLIC TO REVIEW AND COMMENT ON IT.
UM, I'LL JUST GO ON THE NEXT SLIDE.
RIGHT NOW OUR, OUR TOTAL BUDGETARY PIE, UM, UM, IS COMING IN AT, UH, ABOUT, OOPS, THE OPERATING BUDGET.
THE, UH, I'M SORRY ABOUT THAT.
THE OPERATING EXPENSES IS 23 MILLION 618, 8 43, AND CAPITAL EXPENSES ARE 12,019,000 2 0 7.
THAT'S 34% IN CAPITAL AND 66% IN, UM, OPERATING BREAKDOWN.
ON THE OPERATING, UH, WE HAVE OUR GENERAL FUND COMING IN AT 19.2.
UM, THE SEWER ENTERPRISE FUND, UH, COMING IN AT 4.3.
UM, UH, THE CAPITAL PIE INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING CATEGORIES.
WE HAVE CAPITAL ASSESSMENTS, UM, WHICH, UM, ARE, UH, UH, ASSESSMENTS TOO.
UH, THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT ON MAJOR CAPITAL PROJECTS SUCH AS OUR, OUR ROAD PROGRAMS AND SOME OF THE DESIGN COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PUBLIC WORKS EXPANSION.
INTERNAL SERVICE FUND, IF YOU RECALL, LAST YEAR WAS A NEW FUND THAT WE PUT IN PLACE, UH, WHICH IS MORE OF A DEPRECIATION, CAPITAL REPLACEMENT PROGRAM FOR, TO KEEP A BETTER HANDLE ON REPLACEMENT AND MAINTENANCE OF OUR TOWNSHIP FLEET.
UM, UM, CAPITAL, UM, EXPENDITURE FUND IS WHERE IT IS KIND OF A REPOSITORY FOR WHEN WE GET GRANTS AND OTHER, UM, UM, DEDICATED NON-RECURRING REVENUES GOES INTO THAT FUND FOR PROJECTS.
STATE LIQUID FUELS, UM, IS THE MONIES WE GET FROM THE STATE.
UH, UH, IT'S THE GAS TAX FOR, FOR OUR ROADS.
UM, OUR SEWER CAPITAL FUND IS OUR, UH, IS OUR PROPRIETARY FUND USED PRIMARILY FOR, UM, CAPITAL, UH, MAINTENANCE ACTIVITIES IN OUR ASSOCIATED WITH OUR COLLECTION, OUR SEWER COLLECTION SYSTEM.
[01:15:01]
AND, UM, THAT'S FUNDED IN PART BY A CONTRIBUTION FROM OUR, UH, SEWER OPERATING.OUR STORMWATER FUND, UM, IS, UH, OUR, IS A NEW FUND THAT WE'RE, UH, WHAT THAT WE'VE ESTABLISHED AS YOU KNOW, THAT'S IN STASIS.
IT WAS, WE WERE INITIALLY PLANNING ON FUNDING THAT, GETTING A LITTLE BIT MORE AGGRESSIVE IN THE MS FOUR PROGRAM AND GETTING OUR STORMWATER FEE.
UH, UM, AS YOU KNOW, THAT'S IN LITIGATION.
UM, I THINK THAT'S GOING BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT.
UM, SO I DON'T SEE ANYTHING HAPPENING IN THAT FUND.
WE MAY HAVE SOME DISCUSSIONS FOR OUR 2025 BUDGET, UM, CAPITAL FINANCING.
UM, ONE IN ONE OF OUR WORKSHOPS WE WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT, UM, PERHAPS GETTING INTO SOME FINANCING OF SOME ROAD PROJECTS AND SOME OF OUR DEVELOPMENTS.
UM, WE'RE IN A FAVORABLE SITUATION WHERE WE CAN ACTUALLY BORROW MONEY AND, UH, AND ACTUALLY EARN MONEY ON THE MONEY WE BORROW.
I THINK IT'S A FORM OF ARBITRAGE THAT YOU CAN DO FOR, FOR PROJECTS THAT ARE OVER THAT ARE $5 MILLION OR UNDER.
IT'S AN INTERESTING WAY OF LOOKING AT SOME POSSIBLE FINANCING, WHICH WE'D LIKE TO EXPLORE.
PARK AND OPEN SPACE FUND IS THE, UH, REPOSITORY FOR ALL OF OUR PARK FEES AND, UH, DEVELOPER, UH, PARK RELATED DEVELOPER CONTRIBUTIONS THAT GO INTO THE, UH, PARK FUND.
ANY TYPES OF TRAIL PROJECTS, UM, ET CETERA ARE FUNDED OUT OF THAT PROJECT AND ARE MATCHED WITH GRANTS.
THEN OUR GRANTS AND DONATIONS ARE GRANT MONIES AND WE ANTICIPATE RECEIVING THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.
SO WHEN YOU TOTAL ALL THOSE CAPITAL COSTS, IT'S ABOUT $12 MILLION.
UM, TOTAL OPERATING COSTS ARE ABOUT $23 MILLION.
AND JUST A LITTLE CAVEAT, UM, THE, THE CAPITAL ASSESSMENTS, THE INTERNAL SERVICE FUND AND CAP AND THE, UM, THOSE TWO FUNDS ARE, UM, FUNDED AS ASSESSMENTS FROM THE DEPARTMENTS IN THE GENERAL FUNDS.
SO, UM, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S ASSESSED AS AN OPERATING COST, BUT IT'S TRANSFERRED INTO THE CAPITAL COST.
SO, UM, SOMETIMES THAT CAUSES SOME CONFUSION.
UM, KEEP IN MIND WE'RE VERY EARLY PROBABLY, UM, UH, WE DON'T USUALLY GET STARTED ON THIS IN PRIOR YEARS UNTIL OCTOBER OR NOVEMBER.
SO RIGHT NOW OUR SNAPSHOT IS AROUND $35.6 MILLION.
HERE'S WHERE WE STAND WITH REVENUES.
UM, UH, WE'RE LOOKING AT OUR PUBLIC SAFETY LEVY, THAT'S OUR REAL ESTATE ON, UH, POLICE, FIRE AND E M S AT AROUND 5.5.
UH, REAL ESTATE TRANSFER TAX, UM, EARNED INCOME TAX.
THOSE THREE LEVIES ARE OUR PRIMARY, UH, REVENUE SOURCE.
UM, WE, WE ARE TAKING A CONSERVATIVE APPROACH OF ALL THESE, UM, REVENUES BASED ON, UM, REPORTS THAT WE'VE GOTTEN FROM BERKHEIMER ASSOCIATES.
WE'RE STILL, STILL COMING ON THE HEELS OF THE PANDEMIC.
UM, UM, SO, SO WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO GET A BETTER HANDLE ON WHAT, WHERE THE FUTURE REVENUE SOURCES WILL BE ON, ON EARNED INCOME TAX.
UM, AS YOU KNOW, 40% OF THE REVENUES WE GET FROM E I T ARE FROM RESIDENTS OUTSIDE THE TOWNSHIP, FROM THE, FROM MUNICIPALITIES.
THEY DO NOT HAVE THE E I T, UM, PILOT PAYMENT.
UH, THAT'S, IF YOU RECALL, THAT'S THE EXPO CENTER, THAT'S THE PAYMENT OF TAXES THAT WE GET FROM THE EXPO CENTER.
THAT WAS GRADUALLY GOING UP BY 10 GRAND.
WE'RE NOW AT THE, UM, MAX NOW IN THAT AGREEMENT AT A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS.
UM, LICENSES AND PERMITS ARE AT 4 68.
UM, INTEREST EARNINGS, THAT'S ONE BRIGHT SPOT WITH THE FED IN, IN, UM, IT'S NOT GOOD FOR CREDIT CARDS, BUT WHEN YOU'RE INVESTING, UM, TOWNSHIP DOLLARS, UM, YOU'RE GETTING BETTER RATES THAN 1%, 2%.
SO WE'RE GETTING GOOD RATES OF RETURN ON OUR SAVINGS.
SO WE'RE SEEING AN UPTAKE ON OUR, UM, INTEREST EARNINGS.
SO THEY'RE REALLY UP 10 29 TO SEVEN FIVE, RIGHT? WE'RE GOING FROM LESS THAN 1% TO 5%.
WE MAY WE'LL SEE WHERE THINGS GO.
UM, GRANT REVENUES, THE GENERAL FUND IS THE REPOSITORY FOR ANY GRANTS THAT WE GET.
UM, UH, WE'RE STILL WAITING TO GET MONIES BACK FROM THE, UH, FIREHOUSE AND THE R I C P GRANT THAT MONEY'S, WHEN WE GET THAT WILL BE FILTERED THROUGH THAT LINE ITEM FEES AND PERMITS.
UM, THAT'S VERY CYCLICAL BASED ON ECONOMICS.
UH, DEPENDING ON, UM, HOW THE BUILDING ACTIVITY IS.
THERE'S BEEN A, A THEORY BACK WHEN WE DID THIS BUDGET LAST YEAR THAT WITH THE, UM, HEIGHT OF, WITH MORTGAGE RATES BEING OVER SIX OR 7%, THAT WE PUT A STALL ON THE HOUSING MARKET.
WE HAVE NOT SEEN THAT HOUSES ARE STILL GOING VERY QUICKLY, UM, ARE ON, ARE ON THE MARKET THAT THAT MUCH, UM, RECREATION PROGRAM FEES ARE, ARE STAYING PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS SELEN REVENUES.
[01:20:02]
SO THAT'S, UM, UM, NOTHING REALLY TO SHOUT OUT ABOUT.I WILL TELL YOU THAT WE GOT, UM, WE, THE PFIZER SALE FINALLY DID COME THROUGH.
UM, SO, UM, WE GOT A PRETTY BIG REAL ESTATE TRANSFER, UH, TAX, UM, LAST MONTH.
SO WE'LL PROBABLY BE EXCEEDING.
WE WERE RUNNING BEHIND ON THE REAL ESTATE TRANSFER TAX.
I THINK WE'RE GONNA BE AHEAD OF SCHEDULE TOWARD THE END OF THE YEAR.
YOU CAN'T, UM, KEEP BUDGETING EVERY YEAR.
IN THE LAST YEAR WE HAD THE SALE OF OL, UM, AT PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THOSE TYPES OF, YOU CAN'T BUDGET THOSE TYPES OF TRANSACTIONS EVERY YEAR.
SO WE'RE, WE THINK WE'LL BE BACK TO A NORMAL NORMAL YEAR NEXT YEAR.
SO WHAT DO YOU GET WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT PFIZER SALE? YOU WOULD'VE ASKED ME THAT.
THREE QUARTERS, 1 MILLION THANK YOU'S.
UM, AND ONE QUESTION, THE A HUNDRED THOUSAND IS THE PILOT PRO PA PILOT PAYMENT? YEAH, THAT'S ALL, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE, UM, FEE THAT WE GET FROM THE EXPO CENTER.
NOW I KNOW IT WAS STEPPED UP AND NOW WE USED TO BE DOWN TO 70 AND JOE RE PART OF THAT AGREEMENT.
I THINK WE WERE IN 70, 80, 90 AND WE'RE IN THE FINAL YEAR OF THAT.
I THINK WE'RE IN THE FINAL YEAR.
AND I THINK FROM HERE ON IT ESCALATES, UH, AT 1% PER YEAR.
THERE IS AN ESCALATOR I BELIEVE.
SO 1% IS NOT TAGGED TO INFLATION.
WE CAN ALWAYS RE-LOOK AT THOSE AGREEMENTS.
BEFORE THAT IT WAS JUST A, IT WAS JUST A STATIC, I THINK IT WAS A 65 OR $70,000 FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
THESE ARE GENERAL FUND EXPENDITURES.
THE REASON YOU SEE TWO LITTLE WHITE, UM, ARROWS IS WE'RE STILL, UM, IN THE PROCESS OF RESTRUCTURING THE FINANCE AND IT, UM, IT, COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY AND FINANCE WILL BE HOUSED SEPARATELY.
WE'RE GONNA BE CARVING THAT OUT OF ADMINISTRATION AND FINANCE, BUT IT WON'T AFFECT THE, UM, IT WON'T AFFECT THE TOTAL, UH, THE TOTAL AMOUNTS IN THAT ORIGINAL DEPARTMENT ADMINISTRATION AND FINANCE WAS GETTING A, IT WAS GETTING TO BE A HO HOB GL WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT, UM, COST CENTERS.
SO WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BETTER TO, WE, UM, SHOWED A BETTER DELINEATION OF FINANCE AND, UM, THE PRESENCE OF COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY WITH THE ADMIN OF THE FIREHOUSE.
AND, UM, THERE'S JUST A LOT OF STUFF THAT REALLY DEMANDS THAT I T B KIND OF HOUSED IN ITS OWN DEPARTMENT.
UM, THE REST OF THESE, UM, IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOTAL LINE OF ALL THE ACCOUNTS, UM, ARE ABOUT 22, 22 0.8 MILLION.
I DO WANNA SHOW ONE, I WANNA HIGHLIGHT ONE ITEM THAT REALLY, UM, WAS A HUGE INCREASE 'CAUSE I, I WANTED TO DOUBLE CHECK THE SPREADSHEETS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE DOUBLE DOUBLE, UM, UM, ACCOUNTING SOMETHING.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT POOL BUILDING EXPENSES, WE HAD AN APPROVED BUDGET OF 20 IN 2023 OF 819,000.
UM, WE'RE LOOKING, UH, BASED ON OUR PROJECTIONS, WE'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT $1.4 MILLION IN, UM, BUILDING EXPENSES.
THAT'S PRIMARILY ENERGY COSTS, UM, ELECTRICAL COSTS.
UM, THIS, UM, FACTOR'S IN THE FULL YEAR OF OPERATING COSTS FOR THE, FOR THE NEW FIRE FACILITY.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU HAVE LOOKED AT YOUR OWN PICO BILL.
MY PICO BILL'S GONE UP BY ABOUT 25, 30 TO 30%.
SO WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW OUR PERSONAL ENERGY COSTS HAVE GONE UP COMPARED TO SOME OF OTHER FACILITIES, I GUESS I'M NOT SURPRISED AT THAT DELTA, BUT, UM, MY PICO BILL WENT TO ZERO.
YEAH, WE'LL HAVE TO PUT SOME SOLAR PANEL.
I MEAN, JUST BECAUSE I PUT A SOLAR FIELD IN MY FIELD, YOU KNOW, I'M ENVIOUS.
I WANTED TO JUST SHOW, SHOW YOU NEXT TIME, UM, GOING OVER TO THE, CAN, CAN YOU GO BACK JUST ONE SECOND? SURE.
I JUST, AND I KNOW YOU MAY HAVE SAID THIS, BUT I WANT EVERYBODY TO KNOW THAT BOARD OF SUPERVISORS SAYING THAT'S NOT OUR SALARIES.
I JUST WANT EVERYBODY TO KNOW THAT IT'S LIKE, UH, CHAMPAGNE ACADEMY.
LIKE I SAID, THIS IS HIGH LEVEL.
UM, THIS, THIS PRETTY MUCH, UM, IS A BALANCED, UM, BUDGET AT 4.3.
AS YOU KNOW, THE, THE AUTHORITY LAST YEAR RAISED RATES, UM, AS
[01:25:01]
PART OF THE, UM, INTERCEPTOR PROJECT AND SOME OTHER EXPENSES.SO, UM, THAT WAS SOME OF THE PASS THROUGH COSTS THAT CAME IN.
BUT WE, WE, UH, EXPECT THOSE RATES TO STAY LEVEL NEXT YEAR.
NOW I WANT TO JUST GO OVER, UM, SOME OF THE CAPITAL BUDGET REQUESTS THAT THE DEPARTMENT, THIS WILL BE SOME OF THE FOCUS OF SOME OF OUR WORKSHOPS.
AND I JUST WANTED TO, THIS IS WHAT'S BEEN PRESENTED.
I'VE TRIMMED BACK SOME REQUESTS, BUT, UH, SOME OF THESE RECORDED FOR DISCUSSION, UM, IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
UM, THESE ARE THE PROGRAMS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT INTRODUCING AS WE'RE LOOKING AT A, A NEW, UM, DRUG CANINE PROGRAM.
UM, UM, THAT SHOULD HAVE SOME GRANT FUNDING, I BELIEVE SOME GRANT OFFSET WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
STATION VEHICLE COMPUTER PROGRAMS. WE'RE MAKING A MORE AND MORE, UH, IMPROVED EFFORT AT IMPROVING THE SECURITY SURVEILLANCE IN, UM, AROUND THIS AREA AND SOME OF OUR PARKS.
SO WE WE'RE PUTTING IN SOME ADDITIONAL, UM, INVESTMENTS THERE.
WE'RE LOOKING AT REPLACING THREE POLICE CARS AND I JUST THOUGHT I'D SHOW YOU THAT, UM, BOTH OF THESE CARS ARE APPROACHING A HUNDRED THOUSAND MILES.
THIS WOULD BE CONTROL, UH, PATROL CAR P ONE.
UM, USUALLY WE TRY TO RECYCLE OUR POLICE CARS EVERY THREE YEARS.
UM, SOME OF THESE WE, AS YOU CAN SEE, WE'VE BEEN KEEPING THEM FOR MORE THAN THREE YEARS, SO THEY'RE FULLY DEPRECIATED.
UM, WE'RE DO A REGULAR PROGRAM ON THE LICENSE PLATE CAMERAS AND, AND THE TASER PROGRAMS. AND WE HAVE A REGULAR PROGRAM OF UPDATING OUR TASERS AND OUR BODY CAMERAS AND, AND CAR CAMERAS.
TIM, TIM, THE REPLACEMENT OF THE POLICE VEHICLES ARE, ARE THERE, ARE WE GOING TO START PHASING IN THE BATTERY OPERATED? I'LL LET YOU TALK.
I, I THINK WE'RE DOING, TRYING TO DO HYBRIDS.
WE'VE BEEN, UH, TRYING TO GET HYBRIDS FOR, UH, SINCE 2021.
UH, UNFORTUNATELY, FORD, TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, UH, THEY MAY MAKE 7,000 HYBRIDS FOR THE ENTIRE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA WITH 18,000 ORDERS.
SO WHEN YOU HAVE BIG AGENCIES LIKE PITTSBURGH, UH, PHILADELPHIA, UH, PLACES LIKE THAT, WHO IN STATE POLICE, YOU GET A MAJORITY OF WHAT IS IN THE FORT MAKES, IT LEAVES SMALLER AGENCIES LIKE OURSELVES AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST.
AND SO WE'VE BEEN TRYING SINCE 2021, WE'VE HAD ORDERS IN AND UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE NOT BEEN SELECTED TO GET ONE.
UH, SO THE IDEA IS, AND THE BUDGET WILL REFLECT HYBRIDS.
WE'RE HOPING TO GET HYBRIDS, UH, BUT OUR DEALER, UH, WHO WE DEAL WITH NORMALLY SAID REALLY, IT'S THE HIGH EXPECTATION, UNFORTUNATELY.
THIS IS FIRE EMERGENCY SERVICES AND UNFORTUNATELY CHIEF RUSSELL HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO BE WITH US TONIGHT.
BUT, UM, WE, UH, HOUSED THE DEBT SERVICE FOR THE NEW, UH, FIREHOUSE.
IT'S NOT NEW ANYMORE, IT'S THREE YEARS OLD.
SO WE'RE PUTTING, UH, THIS IN.
WE'RE IN OUR THIRD OF OUR 10 YEAR DEBT SERVICE PAYMENT WITH THE FACILITY.
UM, SO WE, WE HOUSE THAT DEBT SERVICE IN HIS, UH, IN HIS, UH, BUDGET.
OTHER ITEMS HERE ARE FIRE HOSE REPLACEMENTS, UM, MOBILE AND PORTABLE RADIOS, THE FIT TESTING MACHINE.
UM, THEY'RE LOOKING AT GETTING A RESCUE BOAT TRAILER, UH, PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT.
AND THEN THEY'RE LOOKING AT TO, UM, PICK UP, UH, FOR THE DEPUTY FIRE MARSHAL AND THE FIRE CHIEF.
AND THAT IS, UM, KIND OF ROUNDS OUT HIS, UM, DEPARTMENT.
AS YOU KNOW, WE ARE ALREADY AUTHORIZED TO PROCUREMENT OF THE TWO FIRE ENGINES THIS YEAR.
THAT, AND WE'LL BE GETTING THAT IN PROBABLY 36 MONTHS.
SO WE DID PAY FOR THAT, IF YOU RECALL, WITH ARPA FUNDS.
AND WE'LL BE GETTING A, PROBABLY A TRADE-IN VALUE ON THE TOWER LADDER FROM BLACKROCK.
ONCE WE KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER IS, WE THINK IT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE AROUND 600,000.
NEXT TITLE TOWNSHIP ADMINISTRATION.
UM, WE, UM, NO LONGER HAVE A POOL OF ADMINISTRATION VEHICLE HERE.
UM, UM, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT GETTING THAT REPLACED FOR, FOR ALL USE IN THE ATTACHMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE.
UM, FOR, UH, FOR, UM, TOWNSHIP BASED USE.
UM, WE'RE LOOKING AT SECURITY ACCESS UPGRADES, UM, THROUGHOUT THE ATTACHMENT THAT'S SURE WITH THAT.
IN ADDITION TO, UM, KEYPAD AND FOB ACCESS, WE'RE LOOKING AT SECURING THE TWO REAR DOORS TO THE ADMIN BUILDING.
IT'S RELATIVELY EASY FOR SOMEBODY TO MAKE ENTRY.
AND YOU CAN ALSO SEE INTO THE BUILDING, SEE WHERE THE STAFF ARE COMING AND GOING.
[01:30:01]
TO SPEAK, THE FRONT END OF THE OFFICE FROM THE LOBBY, UH, WHICH JUST PLEXIGLASS PREVIOUSLY.NOW IT'S, UH, BULLET RESISTING GLASS.
WE'D LIKE TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR, THE BACK OF THE BUILDING AS WELL.
THE LAST TWO ITEMS ARE IT RELATED.
WHEN WE HAVE OUR WORKSHOP, NATE WILL GO INTO MORE DETAIL, BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT SOME TOWNSHIP WIDE UPGRADES AND SOME NEW CLOUD-BASED, UM, ACCESS CODES, WHICH YOU CAN GO INTO DETAIL ON.
UM, WE'RE, UH, LOOKING AT, UM, IMPROVING OUR G I S SYSTEM.
SO WE'RE LOOKING AT, UM, GETTING OUR G I S DATA MIGRATION DONE, AND ALSO, UM, OUR GIS SOFTWARE LICENSING AND UPGRADES.
AND, UM, WE DECIDED THAT JEFF WILL BE HOUSING THAT.
ARE WE NO LONGER GOING WITH THE PERSON PEOPLE THAT WE'RE HAVING NOW? IS THAT IT? WE'RE WORKING THROUGH OTHER VENDORS.
WE'RE KIND OF GETTING A SENSE OF WHAT'S OUT THERE.
NO DECISION'S BEEN MADE, OBVIOUSLY THAT THE ULTIMATE DECISION RIDES WITH THE BOARD WHO WE GO WITH, BUT WE, WE'VE BEEN HAVING MEETINGS AND SOME SALES DEMONSTRATION, SO WE'RE TRYING TO GET A FLAVOR FOR WHAT'S OUT THERE.
AND THEN, UM, SOME ARE, AND IT'S NOT JUST WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR ISN'T JUST WHAT THE LOCAL VENDOR DOES.
THERE'S OTHER PROGRAMS OUT THERE FOR DOCUMENT MANAGEMENT, ASSET MANAGEMENT, THINGS LIKE THAT THAT HE DOES.
WE'RE TRYING TO ROPE INTO THE PROCESS.
I, I KNOW THAT THE PUBLIC WORKS HAS BEEN VERY GOOD ABOUT KEEPING UPDATED WITH OUR PRESENT G I S SYSTEM.
AND MY ONLY CONCERN IS, AND AND I I THINK WE SHOULD ALWAYS LOOK FORWARD TO DOING BUSINESS WITH SOMEBODY ELSE, BUT ARE WE GOING TO BE ABLE TO INTEGRATE WHAT WE HAVE INTO A NEW SYSTEM? THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF, THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE'RE WORKING THROUGH WITH THESE OTHER VENDORS.
IF WE GO TO THAT, WE'VE REALLY DONE, I WOULD SAY FOUR OR FIVE DIFFERENT VENDORS, THE VERY HIGH LEVEL DISCUSSIONS OF WHAT THEIR PRODUCTS DO, WHAT WHAT WE ASK.
THEY, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE THEY'RE HIGH LEVEL.
WE TRY TO GET TO MORE SPECIFICS.
WE'RE KIND OF GETTING THAT SECOND LEVEL NOW OF, OF LET'S TALK MORE ABOUT ASSET MANAGEMENT OR OTHER THINGS THAT, THAT THESE PROGRAMS CAN DO.
SO WE'RE, SO WE'RE LOOKING TO BE ABLE TO BRING THAT STUFF OVER TO A NEW PROGRAM OR WHATEVER IT IS.
OR DO, OR, OR IS IT POSSIBLE TO SAVE WHAT WE HAVE OR WE HAVE OH, DEFINITELY.
SO ALL OF THE DATA THAT'S ON THAT G I S SYSTEM IS OURS, AND WE WILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS THAT.
WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT RECREATING THE WHEEL.
WE'RE NOT STARTING FROM SCRATCH.
SO, I'M SORRY I MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR QUESTION.
TOM'S HERE GONNA BE DOING BOTH.
UM, I DIVIDED THIS UP BETWEEN GENERAL AND ALSO STEERING CAPITAL, BUT, UM, WE'RE LOOKING AT, UM, PUTTING IN SOME DESIGN COSTS FOR THE, UH, PUBLIC WORKS EXPANSION AND THE SALT SHED.
AND SO THAT'S, UH, WE'RE WORKING ON THOSE PRELIMINARY DESIGNS RIGHT NOW.
NO BRICK AND MORTAR'S BEEN BUDGETED FOR THIS.
UM, AS YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S A, WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD CHANCE IF WE PLAY OUR CARDS RIGHT, THAT WE CAN GET SOME GOOD GRANT FUNDING FOR THIS.
SO I THINK WE NEED TO EXERCISE A LITTLE BIT OF PATIENCE AS WE, AS WE GO THROUGH, AS WE GO FORWARD WITH THE, UH, DESIGN OF THIS, UH, FACILITIES.
BUT, UM, I THINK RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT TRYING TO GET SOMETHING IN THE SHOVEL READY.
BUT, UM, UM, WE GOT A NEW PICKUP TRUCK, UH, UM, SCHEDULED INTO THE, UH, PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.
UM, OUR BOOK ROAD SALT, WE BUDGET HERE AS 1 45, UM, EVERY YEAR.
WE DIDN'T HAVE TO USE ANY SALT LAST YEAR.
I, I DUNNO WHAT MOTHER NATURE'S GONNA HAVE FOR US THIS YEAR.
BUT WE DO WANNA STAY PREPARED.
WE'VE GOT A NUMBER OF, UM, REPLACEMENT VEHICLES, AND I JUST WANTED TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.
A LOT OF THESE, UM, UH, PUBLIC WORKS EQUIPMENT HAS BEEN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATE ON THESE, THIS IS A 2007 BUCKET TRUCK, A 2003 JOHN DEERE GATOR, A 2010 KUBOTA.
ALL THESE ARE, ARE, UM, PIECES OF EQUIPMENT THAT ARE UPWARDS TO 15 TO 20 YEARS OLD.
A LOT OF THESE HAVE LIFE CYCLES OF SEVEN OR EIGHT YEARS, SO THEY'VE DONE A VERY GOOD JOB OF MAINTAINING THEM.
A LOT OF OUR EQUIPMENT RIGHT NOW IS AT THE POINT WHERE THE, THE KELLY, THE MAINTENANCE COSTS OF THESE, UM, UM, MATCHES OR EXCEEDS THE, UM, THE VALUE OF THE, UM, OF THESE UNITS.
SO I THINK IT'S TIME THAT WE, UH, WE REPLACE THESE.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO NOW WITH THE INTERNAL SERVICE FUND IS, IS, UM, PURCHASE THESE, DEPRECIATE THEM AND, AND DO A BETTER JOB OF, OF CYCLING THROUGH THESE IN, IN THE FUTURE.
SAME WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ALSO WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
[01:35:02]
ONE BIG DISCUSSION WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE AT ONE OF OUR WORKSHOPS IS RIGHT NOW WE HAVE IN HERE A PROJECT, A PROJECT BE IN A PROJECT C ONE IS WOULD BE A LIQUID FUELS PROJECT.UM, ONE WOULD BE A NON-LIQUID FUELS PROJECT.
THAT'S SOMETHING WE'VE ALWAYS HISTORICALLY DONE.
EVERY YEAR WE TRY TO PUT IN AT LEAST A MILLION DOLLARS INTO OUR ROAD, UH, PAVEMENT PROGRAM.
ONE THING WE WANT TO DO THIS YEAR IS MAYBE TO TRY TO GET BACK UP ONTO THAT FOUR MILE PER YEAR REPLACEMENT, IS TO TRY TO LOOK AT SOME OF OUR MORE OLDER, SOME OF OUR OLDER SUBDIVISIONS.
AND THERE'S, UM, WHAT WE'RE FINDING OUT, IT'S EASIER, RATHER THAN GOING IN AND DOING ONE SECTION OF THE SUBDIVISION, IT'S BEST TO GO THROUGH AND DO ONE BIG SUBDIVISION TOGETHER SO YOU'RE NOT MOBILIZING DIFFERENTLY EVERY YEAR.
AND, UM, THERE'S SOME, UH, UH, WE'RE IN A UNIQUE FUNDING AND ENVIRONMENT WITH, UM, INTEREST RATES WHERE WE CAN, UM, WE CAN BORROW UP TO $5 MILLION IN WHAT'S CALLED A, UH, UH, WITHOUT HAVING AN ARBITRAGE PENALTY FOR THE, UH, FOR THE AMOUNT OF INTEREST THAT YOU EARN ON THAT UNTIL YOU DO THE PROJECT.
SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE OUR, ONE OF OUR, OUR ADVISOR FOR P F M COME TO ONE OF OUR WORKSHOPS TO EXPLAIN HOW THAT SYSTEM WORKS.
BUT WE MAY END UP DOING JUST MAYBE ONE OF THESE ROAD PROJECTS, UM, AS YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT, THAT TOTALS ABOUT, UM, CLOSE TO $7 MILLION.
UM, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO DO OUR BEST TO STAY AB ABREAST WITH OUR, WITH OUR ROADS, UM, AND MAIN STREET AND GREENWOOD AVENUE CIVILIZATION.
CAN YOU, TOM, CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT? YEAH, WE'RE, UH, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS I THINK OF TRYING TO FUND A GRANT FOR THAT.
YEAH, RIGHT NOW I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE A GRANT PROJECT.
AND THEN I JUST HEARD TONIGHT BEFORE YOU ASK ABOUT LEWIS ROAD, THAT'S NOT ON HERE, BUT THAT CAN BE A POSSIBLE, WELL, MY, MY NEIGHBORS WILL BE REALLY HAPPY AT THE SIGNALIZATION THERE AT GREENWOOD AND RIDGE OR MAIN STREET.
UM, BUT HOW MANY IS WB HOMES AND THE OTHER ONE, OXFORD LEE, ARE THEY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS SIGNALIZATION EFFORT? UM, OXFORD LEE DID MAKE A CONTRIBUTION, NO, I'M SORRY.
WP DID MAKE A CONTRIBUTION, UM, PREVIOUSLY, UM, OXFORD LEE SORT OF PREDATES OUR HARD INTEREST IN THIS INTERSECTION.
SO WHILE THEY PAID THEIR ACT 2 0 9 FEES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THEY HAVE NOT, WELL, I'M NOT EVEN SURE THEY'RE IN ACT 2 0 9 BECAUSE THEY MAY PREDATE THAT.
I'D HAVE TO CHECK THAT DATE FOR YOU.
BUT, UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY DIDN'T, THEY DIDN'T CONTRIBUTE ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT THEY NEEDED TO FOR THIS.
AND THEN WE'RE LOOKING FOR GRANTS FOR, WE ASKED DELTA TO LOOK INTO, TO GRANTS FOR THAT PROJECT.
YEAH, I THINK WE'LL HAVE A LITTLE CELEBRATION WITH WHAT DO YOU, UH, ANTICIPATE FOR GETTING THIS DONE? NICE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE IT DONE.
THERE'S, THERE'S QUITE A PROCESS TO THIS.
AS, AS WE TALKED ABOUT THE, YOU KNOW, THE PERMIT, THE DESIGN, EVERYTHING.
SO, UH, WE DON'T HAVE REALLY EVEN HAD, WE HAVE A PRELIMINARY DESIGN.
DO WE HAVE ANYTHING FOR THAT SIGNAL, ANTHONY? I DON'T THINK WE, YOU DON'T HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AT THIS POINT RIGHT THERE, THERE.
I THINK THERE WAS A DESIGN FROM BACK IN THE LATE EIGHTIES, EARLY NINETIES, MAYBE THE EARLY TWO THOUSANDS THAT WE'VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO LOCATE.
UM, SO WE'RE STILL SORT OF DIGGING THROUGH FILES, LOOKING FOR THAT.
OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GONNA BE BRINGING IT UP TO, TO STANDARDS FOR TODAY'S.
AND, AND THIS IS GONNA BE DONE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE, UM, SEWER? NO, THE SEWER SHOULD BE AHEAD OF THAT.
THIS, WE'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT THE FOLLOWING THE FOLLOWING YEAR.
WE'RE STILL WAITING TO HEAR ABOUT THAT GRANT.
UH, COULD BE THIS MONTH, RIGHT? SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER.
YEAH, SINCE SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER.
WE'LL KNOW ABOUT THAT GRANT THAT SHOULD PAY FOR THAT PROJECT.
TOM, DO YOU WANT TO JUST STAY UP HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE SEWER NEXT.
UM, THE MINGO AT THE SECOND AVENUE PUMP STATION.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT A MINOR, UH, PROJECT.
I THINK WE FINISHED UP 10, AROUND 10 RUN'S PRETTY MUCH COMPLETE.
SO, UH, THESE ARE SOME MINOR PROJECTS THAT WE'RE DOING.
IT, IT IS BASICALLY FOR INSTRUMENTATION UPGRADES.
THOSE PUMP STATIONS WERE BUILT IN THE MID 1960S AND A LOT OF THE INSTRUMENTATION IS STILL ORIGINAL TO THAT.
SO WE'RE, EVERY YEAR WE'RE TRYING TO DO SOME UPGRADES IN THERE THAT KIND OF GET INTO THE 21ST CENTURY WITH, UH, CONTROLS.
A LOT OF THIS OTHER STUFF IS JUST REGULAR ROUTINE.
THE EASEMENT CLEARING OF THE ROOT CUT, UM, MANHOLE CEILING PIPE REPAIRS AND FILL AND INFILTRATION.
I ALWAYS LIKE SEEING THE PUBLIC WORKS.
KUDOS ON THIS IS BECAUSE WITH ALL THE TOWNS AROUND THAT SERVE THAT FEED INTO THE LOWER PER VALLEY SEW AUTHORITY, WE HAVE THE BEST I M I.
YEAH, WE HAVE THE TIGHTEST SEAT, THE TIGHTEST SYSTEM WITH ANYBODY THAT GETS TO THE PLANT.
SO THAT'S BECAUSE WE CONTAIN OUR, OUR SYSTEM.
[01:40:01]
UM, WE DO, UM, ANNUAL TELEVISING AND THEN THE BOTTOM ONE IS NOT SEWER, IT'S STORMWATER.AND I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO, WE'RE TRYING TO DO ABOUT $240,000 IN STORMWATER.
UM, IT'S NOT AS MUCH AS WE WOULD LIKE TO DO SINCE WE DON'T HAVE THE FEE TO PUT TOWARD THIS.
BUT WE, WE WANT TO DO AT LEAST SOME OF THE STORM STORMWATER REPAIRS.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO TARGET THIS QUARTER BILLION.
UM, I, I'VE SPOKEN TO BRIAN EARLIER THIS YEAR ABOUT PUTTING SOME MONEY ASIDE FOR SOME HAVING RETENTION BASES CHECKED.
'CAUSE IT'S JUST MY OPINION THAT A LOT OF 'EM DON'T WORK.
AND SOME OF THEM DON'T EVEN HAVE FITTINGS OR WHATEVER.
WE HAVE A LIST FOR STARTING AT THE SOUTHERN END OF THE TOWNSHIP DOWN THE OAKS AREA.
UM, WE'VE LOOKED AT ONE IN SCARLET LANE.
THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE THAT, UH, WE WANTED TO TAKE A LOOK AT DOWN 29.
SO THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE THAT WE LOOKED AT.
WE HAVE A LISTING DOWN THERE OF ALL THE BASINS AND WE'RE USING OUR TIME TO INFILL.
WE'LL COME UP WITH ANY MAINTENANCE ITEMS THAT WE IDENTIFY AND THEN THE COST OF DOING THOSE REPAIRS.
AND THEN WHO PAYS FOR THOSE IF THEY'RE ON PROPERTY OWNERS? RIGHT.
SO THE SCARLET OAKS IS ACTUALLY ON SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY.
IT'S NOT, WE HAVE QUITE A FEW OF THEM, JOEY DOWN THERE.
THERE'S QUITE A FEW DOWN THERE.
SO IT WOULD BE THE PROPERTY OWNER WOULD HAVE TO MAKE, OR YOU DOING IT AND PUTTING A LIEN ON THEIR PROPERTY.
SO THE PROPERTY OWNER MAY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.
IT DEPENDS ON WHERE THE BASIN IS.
A LOT OF 'EM ARE AT THAT END OF THE TOWNSHIP ARE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.
OF THE NEWER DEVELOPMENTS THAT YOU HAVE WOULD BE H O A, BUT WE'RE STARTING AT THE BOTTOM END.
SO A LOT OF THOSE ARE PRIVATE PROPERTY.
ARE THEY, ARE THEY AWARE OF THAT? THEY SHOULD BE.
THEY'RE PROBABLY AWARE THAT THEY GOT THE BIGGEST LOT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I'M NOT SURE IF THEY'RE AWARE OF THE OBLIGATION THAT CAME WITH IT.
WANT TO, THE LAST PROBABLY 10 OR 15 YEARS, IT'S PROBABLY EVOLVED MORE TO H O A PROPERTY.
UM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE E A C HAS TALKED ABOUT, REACHING OUT TO SOME HOMEOWNERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT ABOUT MAINTENANCE OF THE BASINS AND, AND WE'RE STILL GETTING UP TO SPEED ON IT AND THEY'RE DOING SOME INVESTIGATIONS AS WE GO.
BUT THAT'S ALSO I THINK WHAT THE EAC C'S LOOKING FOR, LOOKING TO DO TOO.
JUST EDUCATING PEOPLE ON WHAT THEY SHOULD BE, SHOULDN'T BE DOING.
I, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS SOME MONEY SET ASIDE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE OPERATING CORRECTLY.
THIS TOWN HAS BEEN VERY GOOD ABOUT MAINTAINING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND, AND, UH, KUDOS TO THE PUBLIC WORKS CREW, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THESE RETENTION BASES ARE WORKING.
YOU KNOW, THE FLOODING IS JUST HAPPENING MORE AND MORE THESE DAYS AND JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT RESIDENTS ARE SOMEWHAT PROTECTED.
IT WOULD HELP IF, IF WE COULD PASS THIS ON TO EVERYBODY UPSTREAM FROM US TOO, THE CHECK THEIR, THEIR SYSTEMS AND MAKE SURE THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S OUT OF OUR BALLPARK.
SO WELL AS WE'RE DOING OUR MS FOUR INSPECTIONS TWICE A YEAR, WE'RE OUT THERE.
UM, IT GIVES US A REALLY GOOD SNAPSHOT OF WHAT'S GOING ON OUT THERE.
THINGS WE WOULDN'T NORMALLY SEE.
'CAUSE NOW WE'VE GOTTA TRUDGE INTO THE WOODS.
WE GOTTA TRUDGE IN THE BACKYARDS AND WE FIND A LOT OF THINGS THAT WAY.
WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THAT ARE PART OF OUR SYSTEM GENERALLY.
SO WE, IT WORKS WELL FOR US TO BE ABLE TO FIND PROBLEMS AND GET 'EM FIXED UP AND AT SKU, SKEL INTERCEPTOR AND CLEANING REHAB, THAT'S PART OF WHAT'S GOING UP FROM THE LOCK HOUSE TO THE, TO THE, IT'S THE WHOLE ENTIRE INTERCEPTOR.
ALL THE WAY FROM THE, THE COUNTY HOME, I SHOULD SAY, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE PLANT.
ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE PLANT.
SO WE'RE SPENDING A LOT OF TIME DOING REPAIRS ON THERE, ON THAT SYSTEM, TRYING TO KEEP THAT PIPE IN GOOD SHAPE AS LONG AS WE CAN BECAUSE THAT'S GONNA BE ONE HECK OF AN, AN EXPENSE IF WE WOULD'VE TO REPLACE THAT INTERCEPTOR.
SO IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE DOING THERE ON THE TRAIL AND WINE'S CLOSED? YEAH, WELL THE TRAIL WAS CLOSED FOR THE, THE CANAL PROJECT.
YOU'RE TALKING, IT'S CLOSED ALL THE WAY TO THE DAM.
IT'S CLOSED TO THE DAM ALL THE WAY TO THE CANAL.
I THINK THAT TURN YOUR MIC ON.
I THINK THAT HAD TO DO WITH, UH, THE PROJECT THAT WENT ON WITH THE FOUR BAY BEING CLEANED OUT OF THE CANAL.
I THINK THEY WERE USING THAT AS A SERVICE ROAD POSSIBLY TO GET INTO THAT AREA.
SO THAT SHOULD MOST LIKELY BE OPEN NOW BECAUSE THAT PROJECT FINISHED LAST WEEK.
THEY WERE DOING SOME DREDGING THERE, I THINK.
RIGHT? BECAUSE THE CANAL IS REAL LOW.
[01:45:01]
OF IT OUT TO DRED IT.WE SAW THAT THEN IT WAS CLOSED.
IT SHOULD ALL COME BACK TO ITS NORMAL NOW.
I HEARD THE ONLY THING THEY FOUND UP THERE WAS A LAMP IN THE, THEY FOUND A LAMP IN A COUPLE OLD BOTTLES.
EVERYBODY WAS WONDERING WHAT THEY WERE GONNA FIND, YOU KNOW? 'CAUSE IT'S OLD.
YEAH, BUT SO THEY FOUND IT ON LAMP.
I BELIEVE IT WAS ON ONE OF THE BOATS AT SOME TIME.
THE COUNTY PAYS FOR ALL THAT, SO YEAH, THAT'S BEEN NEEDED FOR MANY YEARS.
UH, DID WE NEED THE PARKS? NO, I, I APOLOGIZE.
I THOUGHT I HAD A SLIDE ON PARKS.
UM, DOES EVERYBODY HAVE THEIR, UH, TRANSMITTAL LETTER? I CAN.
WE HAVE ABOUT $534,000 COMING FROM THE OPEN SPACE FUND.
UM, OUR BIG PROJECT, AS YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU SEE THE ACTIVITY OUT THERE WITH THE BLACKROCK PARK RESTROOMS AND, UM, I THINK TOM, WHAT'S THE ESTIMATED COMPLETION OF THAT? I KNOW IT WON'T BE DONE FOR, UH, IT'S, IT'S NOT GONNA MAKE IT FOR FALL FEST.
THERE'LL PROBABLY BE TWO WEEKS AFTER FALL FEST.
THEY STARTED TODAY AFTER THE BEACH.
I KNOW MAJOR PROJECTS ON THE PARK BOARD FOR NEXT YEAR IS THE DOING SOME, THEY'RE GONNA BE FOCUSING SOME OF THEIR EFFORTS AT TAYLOR PARK, UM, IMPROVEMENTS.
AND SUE WILL ADDRESS THAT AT THE WORKSHOP WE'RE LOOKING AT.
JEFF, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THIS.
WE'RE, UM, KIND OF REPRIORITIZING OUR TRAIL DESIGNS.
YEAH, ONE 13 IS STILL A LITTLE BIT OF A FOCUS.
WE'RE, WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT WHAT TRAIL PROJECTS WE CAN INSTALL AT THIS POINT.
'CAUSE IT'S UNFORTUNATELY THE, THE CONNECTIONS THAT ARE LEFT ARE, ARE QUITE DIFFICULT.
AND FROM A TOPOGRAPHY STANDPOINT, FROM A, FROM A, YOU KNOW, THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S IN PLACE WHERE THE BUILDINGS ARE IN A RELATION, THESE TRAIL.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO WORK THROUGH AND FIND SOME PROJECTS THAT WE CAN REALLY GET DONE.
SO THAT'S SOME OTHER PROJECTS.
UH, WE HAVE THE, UH, H V A C SYSTEM CONTROL SYSTEM AT THE COMMUNITY CENTER.
THAT'S, THAT'S THAT, UH, SYSTEM'S BEEN A PROBLEM SINCE THE COMMUNITY CENTER'S BEEN OPEN.
BUT, UM, WE HAVE ABOUT $13,000 PLANNED TO, UH, IMPROVE THE CONTROL SYSTEM THERE.
UM, ANDERSON PARK TRAIL ENHANCEMENT, THAT'S THE ANDERSON PARK, UM, UH, LOOP PROJECT TRAIL I THINK THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
AND WE'RE HAVING A GRANT APPLICATION IN FOR THAT.
I THINK THE TOTAL PRO PROJECT FOR THAT GRANT, UH, THAT TRAIL IS AROUND $350,000 LOOKING AT SOME COMPUTER REPLACEMENTS.
WE'RE TRYING TO IMPROVE THE, UH, MAINTENANCE OF OUR PAVILIONS THROUGHOUT OUR PARK SYSTEM AND OUR RESTAURANTS.
SO WE'RE LOOKING AT SOME, THE RECITING OF OUR PAVILIONS.
AND THEN WE HAVE A KIND OF A PLACEHOLDER IN THERE.
UH, ABOUT A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS PLACEHOLDER FOR ANY UNDESIGNATED PARK IMPROVEMENTS, REPAIRS THAT WE MAY SEE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.
SO I APOLOGIZE, I HAVE TO INCLUDE THAT IN THE SLIDE.
JUST TO REITERATE, OUR SCHEDULED BUDGET WORKSHOPS, UM, AND BY THE WAY, WE CAN ALWAYS HAVE MORE THAN THREE, BUT, UH, I THINK LAST YEAR WE DID TWO AND WE DID A WRAP UP ON THE THIRD NIGHT.
UM, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 28TH.
AND OCTOBER 5TH WE'LL BE MORE RELAXED, UM, SETTING SAY THAT THE PUBLIC IS WELCOME WITH THESE MEETINGS AND, UH, YOU CAN PROVIDE YOUR INPUT MORE FREELY ARE MORE INFORMAL.
WE JUST SIT AROUND THE TABLE AND CHAT AND, UH, MAYBE ON POLICE NIGHT, I'LL GET THE TASER.
YOU, I MAY HAVE SHOW US WHAT A KUBOTA IS BECAUSE I OKAY.
UM, WHEN WE ADDED, UH, AN AGENDA ITEM EIGHT, I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT WE ALREADY HAD AN EIGHT THAT WE STILL REQUIRED.
SO IT'S GONNA BE 8 8 8, LIKE A HEIGHT COURSE RATE SELECTION.
WE'LL TAKE EIGHT, WHICH IS THE ORIGINAL ONE IN HERE.
CONSIDER AUTHORIZING THE SOLICITOR TO EXECUTE A STIPULATION OF SETTLEMENT REGARDING THE BOARD OF ASSESSMENT APPEALS ACTION FILED BY APPLE NINE, PENNSYLVANIA BUSINESS TRUST 600 CAMPUS DRIVE TAX DISPUTE.
THIS IS, UH, ONE OF THE, UH, HOTELS UP ON ONE OF THE HOTELS UP ON CAMPUS DRIVE.
UH, THE PROPOSED SETTLEMENT, WHICH OF COURSE IS PRIMARILY NEGOTIATED BY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, RIGHT
[01:50:01]
IN THIS CASE IS A REDUCTION FROM 6.1 MILLION TO 5.1 MILLION.I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO AUTHORIZE THE SOLICITOR, UM, EXECUTE A STIPULATION TO SETTLE REGARDING THE BOARD OF ASSESSMENT APPEALS ACTION FILED BY APPLE NINE, PENNSYLVANIA BUSINESS TRUST 600 CAMPUS DRIVE.
ALRIGHT, I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
AND NOW WE'LL GO BACK TO THE ONE WE ADDED, WHICH WE'LL CALL EIGHT A.
UM, AND THAT IS, UH, CONSIDER ADOPTING RESOLUTION 2023 DASH 36 APPROVING THE TOWNSHIP'S 2024 MINIMUM MUNICIPAL OBLIGATION.
IS THAT, UH, PENSION FUNDS? THAT'S PENSION FUNDS.
I MAKE A MOTION TO, UH, CONSIDER ADOPTING RESOLUTION 2023 DASH 36 APPROVING THE TOWNSHIP'S 2024 MINIMUM MUNICIPAL OBLIGATIONS.
ALRIGHT, I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO ADOPT RESOLUTION 2023 DASH 36 APPROVING THE TOWNSHIP'S 2024 AND MINIMUM MUNICIPAL OBLIGATION.
AND NOW, SO ITEM NUMBER NINE AND, UH, WE DISCUSSED THIS IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
I THINK WE DID THAT EXHAUSTIVELY.
I'M JUST GONNA GO AHEAD AND MAKE THE MOTION.
UH, I MAKE A MOTION THAT THE BOARD APPROVE A FIVE DAY SUSPENSION FOR OFFICER BADGE NUMBER 27.
AND UH, THAT CONCLUDES THE BUSINESS PORTION OF THE MEETING CONSULTING REPORTS.
GO AHEAD AND DO WE HAVE ANYTHING FROM THE MANAGER DEPARTMENT WHERE ARE FROM YOU? 10 I YOU'RE ALL DONE
[CONSULTANT REPORTS]
JEN, DO YOU WANT TO GIVE US, UH, ENGINEERING CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT? SURE.MOST OF THE PROJECTS THAT I WAS GONNA TALK ABOUT WERE ALREADY TOUCHED ON, UM, THE GREENWOOD ACT, SANITARY SEWER GRANT.
WE EXPECT TO HEAR IN SEPTEMBER, THE ANDERSON FARM PARK GRANT, WE EXPECT TO HEAR IN NOVEMBER.
UM, THE LAST STEPS FOR THE TINLEY RUN PROJECT ARE ONGOING.
UH, WE HAVE TO FILE THE NOTICE OF TERMINATION AND GET THE OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE PAPERWORK, UM, FINALIZED.
AND THE, UM, AS TOM POINTED OUT, THE CONTRACT WORK FOR THE UTILITY EXTENSION FOR THE RESTROOM PROJECT IS BEGUN.
UM, GEE, I WANNA ASK YOU TWO QUESTIONS.
UH, ONE IS, HOW ARE WE DOING ON THE, UM, BUS FINDS WE'RE GOING OVER SCHOOL BUSES? DO WE HAVE ANY LATER DATA? I HAVE NOT GOTTEN AN UPDATED, UH, REPORT, BUT, UH, IF THE BOARD'S INTERESTED, I CAN TRY TO GET A MONTHLY REPORT FROM, UH, SERGEANT SOLORIO ON THAT.
UM, MY OTHER QUESTION IS, AND MAYBE HELENE CAN ANSWER THIS, HOW ARE WE DOING ON THE NEWS SURFACE ON YEAGER ROAD? GREAT.
IT'S BEEN WORKING OUT REALLY WELL, BUT I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY ISSUES OR PROBLEMS OR, UH, ACCIDENT.
SO DO YOU THINK SO FAR THAT THERE'S A REDUCTION IN ACCIDENTS? I WOULD SAY SO BASED ON, UH, THE AMOUNT OF RING THAT WE'VE HAD OVER THE LAST, UH, MONTH, UM, UH, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I MEAN, I COULD TRY TO LOOK FOR THOSE NUMBERS, BUT, UH, NOTHING STANDS OUT WHEN I READ THE, UH, THE DAILY REPORTS THAT I I COME INTO EVERY MORNING.
I WENT RIPPING THROUGH THERE
ALRIGHT, NOW WE'VE, UH, WE NEED TO RELEASE SOME ESCROW TO FOLKS THAT HAVE FULFILLED THEIR OBLIGATIONS.
AND, UH, SO INSTEAD OF ME READING ALL THREE, HOW ABOUT IF I JUST MAKE THE MOTION AND THEN WE ONLY HAVE TO READ IT ONE TIME? I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MONTHLY DEVELOPER DEVELOPER IMPROVEMENT GUARANTEE REDUCTION LIST AS FOLLOWS.
RIDGEWOOD PHASE TWO A, RELEASE NUMBER 18 $16,920 AND 75 CENTS B RIDGEWOOD PHASE TWO B, RELEASE NUMBER 10 $22,057 AND 66 CENTS C RIDGEWOOD PHASE TWO C, RELEASE NUMBER EIGHT
[01:55:01]
$82,317 AND 50 CENTS.ALRIGHT, I HAVE A MOTION A SECOND.
[SUPERVISORS COMMENTS]
DO WE HAVE A REPORTER OR ANYTHING? WELL, I GUESS I COULD SORT OF JUMP ON THE NEXT THING LISTED THERE, WHICH IS THE, UH, STEEP SLOPE.SO I CAN OFFER SOME COMMENTS ON THAT.
UM, I ATTENDED THE AMELIA STREET C H B HEARING AND PARTICIPATED ON BEHALF OF THE TOWNSHIP.
AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT, UH, SEVERAL, SEVERAL RESIDENTS THANKED ME AFTERWARDS FOR PARTICIPATING, UM, AND FOR HELPING THEM TO PRESENT THEIR CONCERNS.
SO STEEP SLOPES ARE, UH, PROTECTED IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO, UM, MAINLY AS A CONSERVATION TOOL.
UM, AND IN, UM, THEY'RE, THEY'RE HANDLED IN ONE OF TWO WAYS IN THE ORDINANCES THAT DO REGULATE THEM.
SOMETIMES THEY'RE BY A SPECIAL EXCEPTION AND SOMETIMES THEY'RE BY, UM, BY PROHIBITING THEM AND REQUIRING THE PERSON TO GET A VARIANCE.
SO THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT WITH A, UH, WITH A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU, WHEN WE HAVE CONDITIONAL USE HEARINGS HERE, THE EXACT SAME HEARING IF IT'S IN FRONT OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD IS CALLED A SPECIAL EXCEPTION HEARING.
SO WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT IF THEY SATISFY THE CRITERIA ON THE LIST, THEN THEY'RE ENTITLED TO THE RELIEF THAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR.
UM, THAT IS HOW THE TOWNSHIP ORDINANCE IS SET UP.
IT, THERE ARE A LOT OF PLACES THAT DO IT THAT WAY AND THERE'S NOTHING INHERENTLY WRONG WITH IT.
AND IN FACT, IT DOES HAVE THE OPTION OF NEVER ALLOWING SOMEONE TO MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT THEIR PROPERTY HAS BEEN CONFISCATED BY THE GOVERNMENT SUCH AS AMELIA STREET WOULD'VE BECAUSE THEIR ENTIRE PARCEL IS STEEP SLOPE.
SO, BUT, BUT JEFF AND I BOTH AGREE THAT THE, UH, WAY THAT GIVES MORE CONTROL OVER ON THE TOWNSHIP'S PART, AND REALLY THE ZONING HEARING BOARD'S PART, IS TO DENY STEEP SLOPE DEVELOPMENT IN STEEP SLOPES GREATER THAN 15%.
UM, AND THEN REQUIRING THE, THE OWNER TO SEEK A VARIANCE.
UM, WHEN YOU SEEK A VARIANCE FROM THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE TO SHOW IS THAT YOU'VE REQUESTED THE LEAST AMOUNT OF RELIEF POSSIBLE TO ACCOMMODATE YOU ALSO, THAT YOU HAVE A HARDSHIP AND THOSE CRITERIA ARE NOT PRESENT WHEN YOU HAVE IT AS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
NOW YOU'VE GOT, YOU'VE GOT SPECIAL EXCEPTION CRITERIA AND THEY'RE GOOD, BUT IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO CONTROL A LITTLE BIT FURTHER, FURTHER, IT WOULD BE BETTER TO BE, UM, DRAFTED THE OTHER WAY.
UM, WE'RE, AND AS AN ASIDE, WE'RE WAITING FOR THE DECISION ON THAT.
THEY TOOK IT UNDER ADVISEMENT.
SO I DON'T KNOW THE OUTCOME OF A MINI STREET.
UM, SO THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF, UM, STEEP SLOPE APPLICATIONS ROLL IN EVERY WEEK.
UM, THEY'RE A VERY COMMON PART OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
UM, I HAD NOT BEEN A PART OF ONE OR ZONING HEARING AND DID NOT REALIZE UNTIL I STARTED SETTING UP FOR THE HEARING THAT IT WAS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION AND NOT A VARIANCE SITUATION.
SO, UM, IT'S, IT'S AN EASY REWRITE IN THE ORDINANCE.
UM, IT WOULDN'T AFFECT ANYTHING THAT'S PENDING NOW, BUT ANY FUTURE APPLICATIONS, UM, WE THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION TO HAVE ADDITIONAL CONTROL.
UM, I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN THE CASE OF THE AMELIA STREET, HE ABSOLUTELY WOULD'VE BEEN ENTITLED TO A VARIANCE BECAUSE THE ENTIRE PROPERTY IS STEEP SLOPE.
SO EVEN IF HE, IF EVEN IF IT WAS UNDER THE NEW ORDINANCE THAT WE DRAFTED, UH, IT WAS THE DEFINITION OF HARDSHIP, THE NATURE OF THE PROPERTY WOULDN'T ALLOW DEVELOPMENT WITHOUT SOME RELIEF.
BUT AGAIN, IF YOU HAD HAD IT AS A VARIANCE, MAYBE HE DOESN'T GET THE WHOLE RELIEF.
SO UNDER SPECIAL EXCEPTION, HE CHECKED ALL THE BOXES SO HE GETS WHAT HE WANTS, OR, YOU KNOW, MAYBE, UH, BUT IF IT WAS A VARIANCE, YOU COULD SAY, WELL, BUT MAYBE YOU SHOULD ONLY HAVE THIS MUCH, WHAT'S THE MINIMUM RELIEF THAT IS REASONABLE? NOT THE WHOLE WIDTH OF THE PROPERTY.
SO WHAT'S TO STOP SOMEONE FROM BUYING A CRAZY PIECE OF LAND AND THEN SAYING, I HAVE A HARDSHIP? 'CAUSE IT'S CRAZY IF THE, THE HAR LIKE AMELIA STREET, RIGHT? LIKE IT'S THE HARDSHIP HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS A PART OF THE, THE, THE NATURAL STATE OF THE LAND.
AND SO IF IT IS THAT, IF THE ENTIRE PARCEL IS STEEP SLOPE, NOTHING STOPS ANYBODY FROM BUYING IT AND DEVELOPING IT.
UM, IF IT'S BASED ON WHAT ZONING, UH, DISTRICT IT'S IN, WHAT I SEE HAPPENING HERE LATELY, AND THE REASON I THINK, LIKE I WAS PROMPTED TO POINT YOU IN THAT DIRECTION WAS THAT WE'VE, THE TOWNSHIP'S PRETTY MUCH DEVELOPED OUT AND WE SEE THESE SMALLER DEVELOPERS COMING IN AND PICKING UP THESE SMALL
[02:00:01]
PARCELS OF GROUND, WHICH HAPPEN TO HAVE STEEP SLOPE ON THEM.AND I JUST THINK IT'S RIDICULOUS FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO COME IN AND BUY A PIECE OF GROUND LIKE THAT AND SAY, WELL, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA GO GET RELIEF AND GET, AND BE ABLE TO DEVELOP IT.
SO WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME IS IF THE GUY CAME IN, EVEN AFTER WE REWRITE THE ORDINANCE, THE GUY COMES IN FROM AMELIA AND SAYS, I WANNA BUILD HOUSES THERE.
WE HAVE TO LET HIM BUILD HOUSES THERE.
I MEAN, SUBJECT TO GETTING A VARIANCE, BUT YES.
SO YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, THIS PROPERTY IS ALL STEEP SLOPE, SO THEREFORE IT HAD, YOU CAN'T EVER DO ANYTHING WITH IT.
ANYTHING OVER 15%, THEY CAN'T, YOU, WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T BUILD ON THAT, RIGHT? YEP.
NOW HE GOES IN FRONT OF OUR ZONING HEARING BOARD, ZONING HEARING BOARD HAS TO GIVE HIM THE RELIEF TO SO THAT HE CAN BUILD ON THAT.
I, I I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S RIDICULOUS.
WELL, YOU CAN'T, EVEN IF YOU PUT IN THE ORDINANCE, EVEN IF YOU HAD AN ORDINANCE THAT SAID YOU CAN'T BUILD ON THIS, IF IT'S OVER 15% AND YOU ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO ASK FOR A VARIANCE FROM THIS, THEY CAN ASK FOR A VARIANCE FROM THAT.
THERE IS NOTHING, YOU CANNOT ASK FOR A VARIANCE FROM UNDER THE MUNICIPALITY'S PLAN CODE.
THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, LIKE IF, IF I, IF MY ORDINANCE SAYS YOU CAN'T BUILD ON 15% ANYTHING MORE THAN 15%, WHY WOULD I AS A DEVELOPER WANNA BUY A PIECE OF GROUND THAT'S GOT 15% SLOPE? I DON'T GET IT.
IT'S LIKE, WELL, I GUESS WHY NOT? I'M GOING TO GET A, I'M GOING GET A VARIANCE, YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA GET PERMISSION BILL ON THIS STOP.
WELL, I THINK WHAT'S STOP PEOPLE FROM DOING THIS, JOHN, I THINK THE ISSUE RIGHT NOW IS THAT OUR ORDINANCE IS GOOD, BUT IT'S NOT EXTREMELY STRONG.
IT'S, IT'S NOT EXTREMELY STRONG.
SO YOU CAN GO IN THERE AND YOU CAN BUY THAT.
BUT IF, IF WE PUT A PROHIBITION ON SOMETHING, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS RELATIVELY EASY TO GET.
YOU STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, STILL COSTS A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY, BUT WITH A VARIANCE, THERE'S A HIGHER BURDEN OF PROOF.
THERE'S MORE FLEXIBILITY FROM JOE'S STANDPOINT THAT HE CAN COME ARGUE.
THERE'S MORE FLEXIBILITY FROM THE ZONING HEARING BOARD STANDPOINT THAT OKAY, MAYBE WE HAVE TO GRANT THE VARIANCE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T USE THE PROPERTY FOR ANYTHING.
BUT WE'RE NOT GRANTING THE PROP, WE'RE NOT GRANTING THE VARIANCE FOR EIGHT HOUSES.
WE'RE GRANTING THE VARIANCE FOR TWO HOUSES.
YOU'VE GOT, YOU'VE GOT UP ON LOVER'S LANE.
THEY WANT, THEY WANT THEIR, THEY WANT TO BUILD ON STEEP SLOPES.
YOU'VE GOT BELOW THEM, WHICH IS ON AMELIA STREET.
THEY WANT TO BUILD ON STEEP SLOPES, RIGHT? HOW DO WE PROTECT THE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE THERE? HOW DO WE PROTECT THEM FROM ANY, YOU KNOW, UH, STORM ORDER CONTROLS? I MEAN, THE STORM ORDER CONTROLS APPLY TO EVERYBODY.
SO WE, WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO PROTECT THE STORMWATER CONTROLS.
AND IF THIS NEW ORDINANCE WAS TO BE IN PLACE, YOU CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT MAYBE THAT 11 HOMES, OR I THINK IT'S 11 HOMES THAT WE'RE GONNA BUILD IN AMELIA STREET IS TOO MUCH.
MAYBE THAT'S THE ARGUMENT THE TOWNSHIP MAKES, THAT HEY, THAT'S NOT THE MINIMUM RELIEF NECESSARY NOW, RIGHT NOW IT'S A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
AND, AND THERE'S NOT MUCH WE CAN DO TO ARGUE, JUST LIKE THERE WASN'T MUCH WE COULD DO TO ARGUE WITH AMELIA STREET, BUT THE OTHER PARTS OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE AND ZONING PROTECT THE OTHER LANDOWNERS JUST LIKE THEY DO TODAY WITH STORMWATER CONTROLS, WITH OTHER, YOU KNOW, OTHER PARTS OF THE ORDINANCE.
I MEAN, AND HOW DO I THEN, HOW DO I STOP THE GUY FROM BUILDING THERE? WELL, IF BY CONTROL YOU MEAN STOP, THEN NO, YOU DON'T HAVE CONTROL.
SO, BUT, BUT YOU HAVE, BUT YEAH, I, YOU HAVE TO FIGHT LITTLE BATTLES IN SOME OF THESE AND WIN THE LITTLE BATTLES.
AND I DID REQUEST, YOU KNOW, TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF, OF UH, HAVING SOME LEVEL OF CONTROL.
I DID REQUEST OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD A HOST OF CONDITIONS FOR APPROVAL THAT IS GOING TO REQUIRE THEM TO SUBMIT ANNUAL INSPECTION REPORTS TO THE TOWNSHIP AND TO CONTRIBUTE MONTHLY TOWARDS A CAPITAL RESERVE FUND TO REPLACE THE UNDERGROUND DETENTION BASINS.
BECAUSE THIS IS A SMALL H O A OF ONLY NINE HOUSES.
THEY HAVE NO COMMON GROUND THEY'RE ACTUALLY TAKING CARE OF.
IT'S ACTUALLY ONLY GOING TO EXIST TO TAKE CARE OF THE UNDERGROUND DETENTION BASINS.
AND THEY ALSO HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT NONE OF THESE STORMWATER INLETS ARE PLACED AT A POINT ACROSS FROM A SPECIFIC HOME ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET.
OR IF THERE'S A BACKUP OUT THE STORMWATER, THEN IT COMES OUT TO THEIR HOUSE.
SO WE DID PUT A WHOLE BUNCH OF REQUESTED CONDITIONS IN AND THOSE WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE BECAUSE AS WE SAY, EVERY TIME WHEN DEVELOPERS ARE, ARE HERE, WE SAY TO THE PUBLIC, STORMWATER CONTROL DOES WORK.
STORMWATER CONTROL GENERALLY MAKES A SITE BETTER.
PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE IT SOMETIMES.
BUT WHEN IT'S DESIGNED RIGHT AND BUILT RIGHT AND MAINTAINED RIGHT, IT MAKES THE STORMWATER SITUATION BETTER.
IT'S JUST THAT WITH THOSE UNDER UNDERGROUND DETENTION BASINS, YOU HAVE A LITTLE EXTRA WORRY BECAUSE AN ABOVE GROUND BASIN IS SORT OF IDIOT PROOF WITHIN REASON WHAT'S GOING ON.
[02:05:01]
THERE AND, AND HOPEFULLY THE CONDITIONS WILL COVER THAT, BUT IN THE MEANTIME, WE'D LIKE TO GET STARTED ON REWRITING THE ORDINANCE IF, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA TOO, BECAUSE IF WE COULD RESTRICT THEM TO HOMES INSTEAD OF THE EIGHT, THAT WOULD AT LEAST RIGHT.AND THEY STILL DO HAVE A CHALLENGE AHEAD OF 'EM WITH PENNDOT TOO.
AND TWO, I THINK WHEN YOU DO THE UNDERWATER ATTENTION UNDERGROUND IT UNDER THE GROUND, IT'S GONNA COST MORE, RIGHT? ISN'T IT? THEY SAID IT DOES.
AND I'LL HAVE TO PASS THAT ALONG.
WE'LL HAVE TO PASS THAT ALONG.
UH, UPCOMING EVENTS, UH, OUR SUPERVISOR COMMENTS.
DOES ANYONE HAVE A COMMENT? I HAVE A COMMENT.
DID I JUMP THE GUN ON YOU, LORI? I APOLOGIZE.
I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND EVERYBODY AGAIN ABOUT THE WALL THAT HEAL IS COMING IN OCTOBER.
UM, WE STILL NEED PLENTY OF VOLUNTEERS AND, UH, SOME MORE SPONSORS.
AND, AND I WILL REITERATE ON, UH, UNDEVELOPED LAND.
IF IT IS NOT DESIGNATED OPEN SPACE BY A MUNICIPALITY SUCH AS THE COUNTY, A BOROUGH, A TOWNSHIP, THE STATE, IT IS NOT, IT IS UNDEVELOPED LAND AS UNDEVELOPED LAND.
THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP HIS HER PROPERTY PRETTY MUCH HOWEVER HE WANTS.
AS DISCUSSED BY AMELIA STREET.
THE RULES CAN BE TWEAKED WITH WAIVERS, VARIANCES, WHATEVER THE STATE GIVES THE PROPERTY OWNER THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP HIS PROPERTY.
THE MUNICIPALITY HAS VERY LITTLE POWER.
I WISH IT WORKED SO THAT WE COULD MAKE THINGS GO THE WAY WE WANT TO, LIKE AMELIA STREET AND PARK HOUSE.
WE HAVE LOOKED INTO EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE WAY TO SAVE PARK HOUSE.
THE APPRAISAL IS $50 MILLION FOR THE TOWNSHIP TO BUY PARK HOUSE AT $50 MILLION.
WE WOULD HAVE TO RAISE EVERYBODY'S PROPERTY TAXES.
IF YOU WANT YOUR PROPERTY TAXES RAISED 20 FOLD, PLEASE VOLUNTEER.
IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER WAY OF SAVING THIS PROPERTY AS OPEN SPACE, PLEASE TELL US.
'CAUSE WE'VE LOOKED INTO EVERYTHING.
WE HAVE LOOKED INTO EVERYTHING WE HAVE TRIED.
[UPCOMING EVENTS]
ANYONE ELSE? UPCOMING EVENTS, UH, BOARD SUPERVISORS, MEETING SCHEDULE.UM, UM, SEPTEMBER 28TH, OCTOBER 3RD, AND OCTOBER 5TH AT SEVEN O'CLOCK.
OUR BUDGET WORKSHOPS, AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, OCTOBER 16TH IS OUR NEXT REGULAR MEETING.
I WON'T BE HERE, GO EASY ON MY VICE CHAIR.
NOVEMBER 20TH IS OUR NEXT REGULAR MEETING AFTER THAT.
AND THEN WATCH THE DECEMBER SCHEDULE.
I BELIEVE WE'VE GOT THE FIRST TWO MONDAYS IN DECEMBER, UM, ADVERTISED AS MEETINGS.
AND THAT'S SORT OF A BUDGET ONE AND A BUDGET TWO MEETING, UH, IF NECESSARY.
SO THERE MAY BE, UH, THAT WILL BE DIFFERENT THAN, THAN THE REST OF THE YEAR.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETS, UH, SEPTEMBER 20TH AT 7:00 PM HERE AND OCTOBER 4TH AT 7:00 PM HERE.
UH, ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETS SEPTEMBER 20TH AT 6:00 PM HERE.
PARKS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETS, UH, OCTOBER 11TH AT 6:00 PM HERE.
MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY MEETS, UH, AT 7:00 PM OH, THAT'S BEEN CANCELED FOR OCTOBER 5TH.
AND THE ZONING HEARING BOARD CURRENTLY HAS TWO HEARINGS SCHEDULED, UH, SEPTEMBER 19TH.
OCTOBER 10TH, UH, AT 7:00 PM UH, KIBBLE HOUSE, ONE 20 GREENWOOD ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
SO, AND, UH, IF NOBODY HAS ANYTHING ELSE, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN.