[CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL]
[00:00:03]
GOOD EVENING.I'LL CALL THE ORDER THE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FOR WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6TH, 2023.
AND, UM, WE'RE GOING TO, UH, EVERYBODY, HOPEFULLY THERE'S COPIES IN THE BACK, I THINK, AGENDA OF THIS EVENING.
[PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AGENDA ITEMS]
COMMENT ON NON-AGENDA ITEMS, ANY PUBLIC COMMENT ON NON-AG AGENDA ITEMS? YES, SIR.QUESTION YOU STAND UP AND SAY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE.
AND MY QUESTION IS CONCERNING THE GENERAL HANCOCK PARTNERS DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL FOR LOVER'S LANE AREA.
UH, JUNE, UH, MAY THE 23RD WAS THE HEARING ABOUT THE VARIANCES.
I'M SUPPOSED TO BE PARTY TO PART OF THIS.
I'VE BEEN RECENTLY MADE AWARE THAT THERE'S EVIDENTLY A CONTINUANCE OR SOMETHING.
I'M KIND OF CURIOUS WHERE WE'RE AT WITH THAT.
'CAUSE I DIDN'T RECEIVE ANY NOTICE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.
AND I'M SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THE PARTIES BECAUSE MY PROPERTY IS IMMEDIATELY BELOW WHERE THIS DEVELOPMENT IS PROPOSED FOR.
REMEMBER NOW THAT I SEE, I REMEMBER REQUEST YOU WERE HERE FOR MR. I'M TURN TO JEFF, MR. AS WE TALKED ABOUT ON THE PHONE, UM, THEY ASKED THE CONTINUANCE AT THAT HEARING.
WE DON'T HAVE A DATE FOR THE, WE DON'T HAVE A DATE FOR A NEW HEARING YET.
THE ONLY THING WE HAVE IS THE PLAN THAT I SENT YOU, THE PLANS THAT YOU CAME IN AND PICKED UP.
THAT'S THE ONLY INFORMATION I HAVE ABOUT IT AT THIS POINT.
AND AS I TOLD YOU ON THE PHONE, I WILL LET YOU KNOW I HAVE YOUR EMAIL.
I WILL BE REACHING OUT TO YOU WHENEVER SOMETHING HAPPENS.
BECAUSE I SAW THE NEW PLANS AND AS PER THAT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING THERE, BUT IT IS NOT EVEN REPORT, IT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BODY.
BUT WE DISCUSSED WHERE THE ROAD ENTRANCE WAS ON ST.
THE NEW DRAWING IS, IS THE SAME AS THE OLD DRAWING.
SO THAT PART'S NOT, SIR, I, I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW, THIS BODY HAS, I UNDERSTAND, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOUR, WITH THE PLANS YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU.
WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT BECAUSE THEY'RE A PLANNING COMMISSION.
THEY HAVE AN OUTSTANDING APPLICATION, BUT WE HAVEN'T UPDATED THAT APPLICATION BECAUSE GENERAL HANCOCK DECIDED TO GO TO THE ZONING HEARING.
SO EVERYTHING HAS BEEN DEALING WITH THE ZONING HEARING SINCE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON.
I FIGURED I'D SHOW UP TO ASK THE QUESTION.
'CAUSE I, I'M ON WHAT'S CHANGED? THEY'RE NOT OKAY TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST.
I WAS JUST LOOKING FOR AN UPDATE.
COULD I ADDRESS ONE THING? SURE.
HAS THE ZONING HEARING STARTED OR, OR NOT? IT'S A LITTLE COMPLICATED.
SO I'LL, I'LL GET TO THE HEART OF MY QUESTION.
IS HE A PARTY TO THAT APPLICATION OR NOT? HE CAME UP SAYING HE'S A PARTY 'CAUSE HE'S A NEIGHBOR.
BEING A NEIGHBOR DOESN'T MAKE YOU A PARTY.
SO I DON'T WANT YOU TO LEAVE HERE THINKING YOU'RE A PARTY TO THAT APPLICATION.
I HAVE TO, I HAVE TO LOOK OKAY.
TO SEE ALLISON ZARO IS THE ATTORNEY FOR GER.
I HAVE TO LOOK AND SEE IF THERE WAS ANY BACK AND FORTH ABOUT THAT.
I HAVE NOT DONE THAT, BUT I HAVE KEPT HIM IN THE LOOP ABOUT ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ELSE THAT LIKE IF HE WAS A PARTY.
IF FOR SOME REASON HE WASN'T, I'M KEEPING IN THE LOOP AS IF HE WAS YEAH.
SO, MR, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, YOU HONOR, YOU HAVE TO SHOW IN FRONT OF THE ZONING HEARING BOARD TO BECOME A PARTY.
YOU SHOWING UP HERE DOES NOT MAKE YOU A PARTY TO THAT, THAT WE DID.
I SIGNED THE PAPERWORK AND HANDED THEY HAVE ME LISTED AS PARTY TO THAT WE'RE, I JUST DON'T WANT YOU TO LEAVE HERE THINKING YOU WERE IF YOU WEREN'T.
AT SOME POINT IT'LL COME BACK TO WE'RE EVEN ON OUR AGENDA FOR THE FUTURE.
ANYTHING ELSE FROM, UH, A NON AGENDA ITEM? UM, AND BEFORE I ALREADY FORGET, LET'S, UH, APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING.
EVERYBODY CHECK THE AGENDA HERE.
UH, MR. WRIGHT, YOU MENTIONED TO ME THAT YOU NEED TO LEAVE A LITTLE BIT EARLY TODAY.
SO MIGHT I SUGGEST THAT WE MOVE THE, UH, 4 27 LEWIS ROAD AHEAD OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DISCUSSION AND MEETING MINUTES? THAT'D BE FINE MR. GRACE.
UH, YEAH, I'VE GOTTA LEAVE HERE.
SO WE'RE GOING TO MOVE UP THE,
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON (DATE): SEPTEMBER 6, 2023]
UH, 4 27 LEWIS ROAD AND ASSUME THAT'S YOU VOTE.ARE YOU READY TO, WELL, FIRST I DO NEED TO VOTE ON THAT SLIGHT CHANGE VOTE.
JUST APPROVING THAT WE'RE CHANGING THE AGENDA.
IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT? A UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND THAT.
GO ON UP AND NAME YOUR NAME AND, UM, DO YOU NEED A POINTER? NO.
OR DO YOU NEED THE PLANNER? NOT AT ALL.
I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME THIS EVENING.
APPRECIATE THE, UM, FLEXIBLE CHANGE IN THE AGENDA.
UM, I HOPE YOU ALL RECALL WHEN WE WERE BEFORE YOU FOR THE PRELIMINARY PLAN, UM, FOR THE INTERSECTION OF LEWIS AND VAUGHN ROAD.
UM, THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAD,
[00:05:01]
UH, A COUPLE OF CONCERNS WHEN WE WERE BEFORE YOU ON THE PRELIMINARY PLAN, MOSTLY DEALING WITH THE INTERSECTION OF LEWIS AND VAUGHN ROAD IN ORCHARD COURT.AND I KNOW THAT MR. BRESNAN IS NOT HERE THIS EVENING, BUT I THINK MR. GRAYS CAN REPRESENT TO YOU THAT WE HAVE ENGAGED IN GOOD FAITH REGARDING THAT INTERSECTION IN ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO FOR THE TOWNSHIP TO ASSIST IN FACILITATING ANY SORT OF IMPROVEMENTS TO THAT INTERSECTION, WHICH AT THIS POINT IS MORE OR LESS IN THE TOWNSHIP'S COURT SIDE OF COURT.
WELL, IT'S FUNNY TO BRING THAT UP 'CAUSE I WAS JUST, UM, I'M, I'M KIND OF PERSONALLY INVOLVED IN THIS INTERSECTION.
MR. WRIGHT, COULD YOU TURN YOUR MIC? SORRY.
OH, UH, YEAH, I'M, SO I JUST ASKED ANTHONY, SO I'M GONNA LET ANTHONY MAYBE GIVE YOU AN UPDATE OF WHERE WE'RE AT.
ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO THAT, ANTHONY? GIVE, GIVE THEM AN UPDATE OF WHERE WE'RE AT WITH THIS, UH, INTERSECTION? YEAH, I MEAN, SO I, YOU KNOW, I COULD PROVIDE THAT THERE'S BEEN DIALOGUE WITH THE DEVELOPMENT, UH, OR COURT.
UM, JOE BRE AND MYSELF, I GUESS ATTENDED A MEETING WITH THEM.
IT'S, YEAH, I THINK IT'S OVER A MONTH I GUESS AT THIS POINT.
UM, THINGS FLY BY SO QUICKLY, BUT, UM, SO THERE'S NO, UH, I WOULDN'T SAY THERE'S A SOLUTION NECESSARILY THAT'S BEEN, UH, DISCUSSED OR PUT FORTH JUST YET.
BUT, UM, WE'VE HEARD THEIR CONCERNS.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE TAKEN THEM, UH, TO HEART AND WE'VE BEEN, UH, DISCUSSING AT THE STAFF LEVEL, UM, HOW TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS AND WHICH INVOLVES, YOU KNOW, IMPACTS TO THE, TO THE RIGHT OUT, WHICH IS PART OF THE REVIEW.
UM, THE RIGHT OUT OF ORCHARD COURTS, UM, RIGHT IN THE HEART OF THE, THE MIDDLE OF THE CURVE IN THE INTERSECTION BLEW.
UM, AND WE'RE TRYING TO COME UP WITH A TRAFFIC SOLUTION THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, BEST BALANCES THEIR CONCERNS AND THE INTERSECTION IN THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.
SO WE, WE DON'T HAVE SPECIFICS YET, BUT THERE'S, THERE'S BEEN DIALOGUE AND CONTINUING DIALOGUE WITH, WITH THE COMMUNITY TO GET THERE.
AND I HOPE MR. VALENCIA, THAT YOU CAN LET THE BOARD KNOW, OR MAYBE MR. GRACE THAT, UM, I BELIEVE MY UNDERSTANDING FROM MR. BRESNAN IS THAT THOSE ONGOING DISCUSSIONS WITH THE ORCHARD COURT HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION HAVE NO IMPACT OR SHOULD NOT HOLD UP THE PROGRESS OF THIS PLAN.
SO ANY, ALL THOSE DISCUSSIONS WOULD BE FREE AND CLEAR OF THE WIDENING AND IMPROVEMENTS, I GUESS, THAT ARE CURRENTLY SHOWN.
UM, SO IN COORDINATION TO SOME OF THOSE IMPROVEMENTS, YOU KNOW, WITH, WITH THE APPLICANT TEAM AND THE CONSULTANT, UH, WITH NICK CECH AND T P D COLLABORATIVELY, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE WORKED OUT SOME ADDITIONAL WIDENING ON THE RADIUS AND THINGS THAT THEY HOPEFULLY HELP SET UP FOR SOME OF THESE FUTURE, UH, YOU KNOW, TRAFFIC IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE WERE CONSIDERING.
SO, UM, WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE ALL THE COORDINATION THAT'S BEEN ONGOING.
WE APPRECIATE YOUR COORDINATION AS WELL.
WHEN YOU STARTED, UH, WHEN YOU STARTED YOUR, YOUR, UH, YOUR, UM, YOUR PRESENTATION HERE, YOU SAID THAT YOU'RE WILLING TO, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT YOU, YOU WERE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING.
WHAT DID YOU SAY? YOU WERE WILLING OH, WE, WE'VE ALREADY DONE IT.
WE WERE WILLING TO COORDINATE WITH THE TOWNSHIP.
OR, UH, TO FACILITATE THE IMPROVEMENTS.
UM, SOME OF THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE'VE DONE TO DATE ARE DESIGN IMPROVEMENTS.
I MEAN, I'M NOT A TRAFFIC ENGINEER AND MR. HAMMOND COULDN'T JOIN US THIS EVENING, BUT, UM, I THINK MR. VALENCIA KNOWS, AND MR. GRACE KNOWS THAT WE HAVE PROVIDED FOR ANY CONTINGENCY THAT THE, THAT THE TOWNSHIP WANTS TO UNDERTAKE YOU, YOU, YOU'RE, SO YOU'RE STILL NOT WILLING TO BUILD A TRAFFIC CIRCUIT FOR US? OH, WELL THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE TAKING, YEAH.
NO
IT'LL COST YOU ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE'S, YEAH, WE'LL PUT A TRAFFIC CIRCLE ON THAT POINT.
UM, YEAH, THIS IS, UH, I THINK I KNOW ANTHONY'S ALL OVER THIS REALLY, AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS AND PROPOSALS ON THE TABLE AND, UH, UM, YEAH, THE ONLY OTHER CONCERN THAT I NOTED IN MY NOTES FROM OUR DISCUSSION, UM, DURING PRELIMINARY PLAN, UM, RECOMMENDATION WAS CONCERN ABOUT, UM, EMERGENCY VEHICLE CIRCULATION.
AND I JUST WANTED TO NOTE FOR THE BOARD THAT THE, UM, THE FIRE MARSHAL ISSUED A LETTER ON AUGUST 28TH, 2023, UH, INDICATING THAT OUR PLANS COMPLY WITH ALL E M S CONCERNS.
[00:10:01]
AN ADMINISTRATIVE STANDPOINT, TYPICALLY WITH THE FINAL PLAN, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, NOT THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WE WON'T APPROVE IT UNLESS WE HAVE CLEAN LETTERS AND WE'RE CLOSE.UM, WE'RE SORT OF ASKING YOU TO GIVE YOUR RECOMMENDATION A LITTLE BIT EARLY SO THAT WE CAN GET THEM ON, ON THE, ON THE BOARD AGENDA FOR THE END OF THIS MONTH.
SO NICK HAS ABOUT TWO WEEKS TO WORK OUT PLAN CORRECTIONS ON FROM WHAT'S IN JEN'S LETTER AND ANTHONY'S LETTER TO, TO CLEAN THOSE UP.
ANYTHING WITH OUTSIDE AGENCY WE CAN'T CONTROL.
BUT ANYTHING THAT'S INTERNAL, WE, WE, THOSE PLANS HAVE TO, THOSE COMMENTS HAVE TO BE CLEANED UP.
AND THAT'S, AND I CAN, AND I CAN WORK WITH THEM OFFLINE.
THEY, THEY, I HAVE THEM OUT READY TO GO.
AND THAT, AND THAT'S WHAT I EXPECTED.
AND THAT'S, UM, IT TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS, NORMALLY WE WAIT TO BRING 'EM HERE, BUT WITH JUST THE WAY THE SCHEDULE WORKS.
UM, SO IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANNA PRESENT ON YOUR CLAIM TODAY? UM, NO SIR.
NOT UNLESS THERE ARE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE REGARDING COMMENTS FROM GILMORE OR MCMAHON.
UM, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE ARE ANY OUTSTANDING COMMENTS.
I, WELL, I KNOW THAT THERE ARE NOT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF FIRE AND EMERGENCY SERVICES.
I, I STILL, I STILL, MY PERSONAL COMMENT, AND I MENTIONED THIS LAST TIME WE WERE IN ON PRELIMINARY, UM, I'M STILL CONCERNED ABOUT THE PARKING FOR, UH, NON-RESIDENT PARKING.
YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY HAS A PARTY OR A GRADUATION PARTY OR SOMETHING, WHERE'S EVERYBODY GONNA PARK? I STILL DON'T SEE ENOUGH PARKING.
HAVE YOU ADDRESSED THAT AT ALL? WE HAVE.
I MEAN, WE, WE HAVE BASICALLY HERE WE HAVE PARKING, UH, IN THESE AREAS HERE.
AND IT EQUATES TO ROUGHLY ONE ADDITIONAL SPACE PER UNIT.
I WANNA SAY WE'RE UP AROUND 20 SPACES.
SO IT'S, UH, IT'S ALMOST ONE ADDITIONAL SPACE PER UNIT.
SO, UH, FROM WHAT, IN MY EXPERIENCE THAT ADDITIONAL PARKING IS, IS MORE THAN OTHER MUNICIPAL, MOST OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, THEY'RE USUALLY A HALF A SPACE PER UNIT.
SO, SO HOW MANY DID YOU TAKE? 20.
SO YOU HAVE A DRIVEWAY FOR TWO, IS THAT IT? THERE'S A TWO CAR GARAGE AND THEN THERE'S A DRIVEWAY FOR TWO, AND THEN THERE'S 20 ADDITIONAL SPACES, UH, THAT ARE WHAT I WILL CALL THEM, YOU KNOW, OFF, OFF OFF STREET.
THEY'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, NOT PARKING ALONG, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAVE NO PARKING ALONG THE, UH RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, THE CURB.
IT'S ALL, IT'S ALL IN THIS MIDDLE SECTION.
IT'S ALL ON IN IN THE MIDDLE SECTION.
AND IT IS SPREAD OUT TOO, WHERE, WHERE WE HAVE IT ALL UP AND DOWN, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, HERE, HERE AND THEN ON THIS SIDE.
SO, UH, SO SOMETIMES YOU, YOU'LL SEE 'EM LIKE WHERE THEY'RE IN, IN ONE AREA, THE DEVELOPMENT, THIS IS SPREAD OUT, I THINK, RELATIVELY NICELY.
SO, UH, MY OTHER QUESTION, I GUESS IS THE, UH, ENTRANCE AND EXIT FROM, UH, LEWIS ROAD.
UM, ANTHONY, HAVE YOU ADDRESSED ALL THAT AND THE PEOPLE MAKING A LEFT TURN COMING DOWN LEWIS ROAD OR WANT TO MAKE A LEFT TURN COMING OUT? OR THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO, I FORGET WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
YOU MEAN IN TERMS OF LIKE TURN LANES OR ANYTHING ELSE IN ADDITION? WELL, LET ME THINK.
SO, SO THEY SAY WE'RE COMING UP BEACON COURT HERE AND COMING UP THE LEWIS ROAD THERE, AND THE PERSON WANTS TO MAKE A LEFT.
ARE THEY PERMITTED TO MAKE A LEFT? YES.
SO THERE'S, UH, THAT THOSE ISSUES HAVE BEEN VETTED WITH THE DEPARTMENT'S INPUT AS WELL, THAT DEPEND NOT HAD A FAIR AMOUNT OF CONCERNS, I GUESS, REGARDING THE SITE DISTANCE AND DISTANCE FROM THE, FROM THE BEND, I GUESS, AND, AND OTHER ISSUES AND THE PLANS THAT THEY'RE CURRENTLY REVIEWING.
A THIRD, THIRD FOR THE THIRD TIME, I BELIEVE.
BUT I THINK WITH THE LAST CYCLE WE ADDRESSED OR THE APPLICANT ADDRESSED SOME OF THE SITE CONCERNS.
AND IN TERMS OF ATTORNEY MOVEMENTS THAT THEY'RE ALLOWABLE, THEY'RE ALLOWED, I GUESS THEY'RE AT THE, AT THE INTERSECTION.
SO LEFT SOUTH RIGHTS OUT, LEFT IN, LEFT SOUTH, ALL ALL THOSE MOVEMENTS.
SO THE LIFT IN COMING DOWN LEWIS ROAD, THERE, THERE WON'T BE ANY WIDENING THERE.
SO THERE WILL BE A, IF SOMEBODY HAS TO WAIT TO MAKE A LEFT TURN IN.
YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S, THAT WAS ALL VETTED BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF UNITS, THE PROJECTED TRAFFIC VOLUMES, THE WEIGHT AGAINST THE EXISTING VOLUMES AND ALL THAT, AND THE, THE DEVELOPMENT SATISFIED.
AND THAT'S, AND OUR TRAFFIC RELATED CONCERNS REGARDING MOVEMENTS.
AND THAT IS THE ONLY ENTRANCE AND EXIT IS THAT BEACON COURT, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THERE IS AN EMERGENCY ACCESS.
I SEE THAT, YEAH, I SEE THERE, BUT THERE, THERE'S ONE.
WHAT IS THIS, UH, WHAT IS THE THING BETWEEN THE TWO UNITS? WHAT IS THAT? OH, THAT IS, THAT IS A, UH, I BELIEVE THAT'S A ZONING REQUIREMENT FOR THERE TO BE SEPARATION BETWEEN ADJOIN UNITS.
SINCE WE'RE ONLY LOOKING AT A SMALL, I DON'T SEE THE SCALE OF THIS, BUT WHAT ARE THE CONTOURS ON THIS? ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE, THE
[00:15:01]
GRADING AS FAR AS, I MEAN, THEY'RE TWO FOOT CONTOURS.SO IT LOOKS AS THOUGH YOU HAVE BURNED IT UP SOME AROUND THE EDGE.
THE PROPOSED CONTOURS ARE ONE FOOT, CORRECT? IT IS ONE FOOT, YEAH.
DID YOU DO THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY, THEY'RE ONE FOOT CONTOURS? YES.
I'M JUST THINKING IT'S GONNA FEEL LIKE YOU'RE, MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE WE GO BY THERE ALL THE TIME.
IT'S AN OPEN FIELD, BUT IT'S GONNA FEEL LIKE THIS TOWN, THEY'RE GOING TO HEAT US UP WHEN WE WALK BY THIS OR DRIVE BY
YOU ARE, I THINK THE LANDSCAPING, I MEAN, YEAH, I WAS LOOKING AT THE ONE THING IS THESE UNITS, WILL THE WHOLE SITE SLOPES DOWN, DOWN TO THE, THE, THE LOWER RIGHT HAND CORNER.
SO, SO THESE UNITS HERE, UH, ARE GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE IS AN EMBANKMENT THAT'S SORT OF LIKE IN THIS AREA HERE AS IT DROPS DOWN.
SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE LANDSCAPING, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A DROP.
SO I THINK THAT'S GONNA HELP TO SORT OF GIVE THAT LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE SORT OF APPEARANCE THAT, THAT IT'S, UH, THAT IT'S A LOT, THAT IT'S LOW.
SO IT'S A DECENT AMOUNT OF LANDSCAPING AND BUFFERING THERE TOO.
YOU'RE NOT FILLING THE BACK HALF.
WHAT'S THAT? YOU'RE NOT FILLING THE BACK HALF
UH, WHAT'S THAT CORNER? HOW MUCH OF THAT CORNER IS GOING TO BE WIDENED THERE? WELL, THAT, THAT ULTIMATELY IS UP TO THE TOWNSHIP.
THAT'S WHY I'M KIND OF LOOKING AT ANDY.
YOU WHERE, WHERE THE MEDIAN IS, THE TOWN, OTHER SIDE THERE ON THE CORNER WHEN YOU COME UP LEWIS AND YOU WANT MAKE A RIGHT TURN TOWARD THE HIGH SCHOOL THAT READ'S, YOU'RE TAKING SOME OF THAT RADIUS, RIGHT? YEAH.
THERE'S WIDENING ALONG THE, THE, THE LENGTH I GUESS OF, OF LEWIS.
OH, THE LENGTH ON THE ENTIRE, YEAH.
BUT THAT SPECIFIC AREA FOR THE RIGHT TURN LANE WAS, I FORGET THE, THE DISTANCE OFFHAND, BUT IT WAS SUFFICIENT ENOUGH TO, UH, YOU KNOW, ENSURE THAT THERE'S TRUCK MOVEMENTS, I GUESS, THAT THAT CAN MAKE IT THROUGH WITHOUT, UH, YOU KNOW, COMPETING ON THE MEDIAN.
AND, UM, I KNOW IT'S STRIPED FOR 15 FOOT LANE, BUT MIGHT BE ABOUT 18 FEET OR SOMETHING.
AND I THINK MY, MY AND MY RECOLLECTION WAS WE DID BROADEN THIS, UH, THIS CURVE.
SO WHAT, WHAT WE DID WAS WE DID PROVIDE SOME ADDITIONAL RIGHT OF WAY IN ORDER TO, TO ACCOMMODATE A WIDER TURN.
THERE'S, YEAH, SO TOM, IF YOU, OR IF YOU LOOK AT THE PLANS, YOU CAN SEE THAT ON BOTH APPROACHES.
SO LEWIS ADDING NORTHBOUND, YOU KNOW, UH, MANEUVERING INTO THAT RIGHT AREA, THERE'S A TAPER THAT YOU CAN START TO SEE, LIKE, IT STARTS TO BUMP OUT A LITTLE BIT.
AND AS YOU GO AROUND THE BEND AND START ON THE NORTH, THE NORTHERN LEG AND CONTINUE UP TOWARDS THE SCHOOL, IT STARTS TAP BACK THERE, IT STARTS TO TAPER BACK DOWN.
UH, SO THERE, SO THERE WAS ADDITIONAL WIDENING TO KIND OF ENSURE, YOU KNOW, MOVEMENTS THROUGH THERE, UM, YOU KNOW, GET, GET FACILITATED.
UM, AND, AND IT WAS BUMPED OUT MORE THAN YOUR, YOUR TRADITIONAL, UH, OFFSET THAT YOU SEE ON, ON EITHER SIDE.
ON, ON THE TANGENT SECTIONS, I GUESS THE STRAIGHT TECHNIC SECTIONS.
NOW, ARE YOU LOOKING TO PUT ANOTHER ISLAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT SOMEWHERE? IS THAT AN ISLAND THAT'S IN THERE NOW? THERE'S AN ISLAND.
THERE'S A PROPOSED ISLAND ON THAT, ON THAT, YES, ON THAT GREEN, IT'S, UH, PROVIDES A BIT OF SEPARATION FOR THE FREE FLOW MOVEMENTS GOING AROUND LIKE THAT CONTINUOUS FREE FLOW.
AND THEN ALSO PROVIDES A LITTLE BIT OF ROOM FOR, YOU COULD SEE A VETERAN PAYMENT MARKING PLAN, I GUESS, BUT IT PROVIDES A SEPARATION FOR THOSE WANTING TO GO ACROSS VAUGHN.
IT, IT STARTS THE, THE IDEA WAS TO TRY TO PROVIDE SOME SORT OF SEPARATION, A BREAK, A BREAK IN THOSE THAT WANT TO CONTINUE STRAIGHT ACROSS AND GO DOWN VAUGHN VERSUS THE FREE FLOW THAT WANT TO CONTINUE ON LEWIS.
NOW, IS IT THERE, THERE'S GONNA BE A, UH, A STRAIGHT LANE THERE.
FAR IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT A LONG LANE.
HUNDRED OR SO FEET, I BELIEVE.
JUST TO, TO GET SOME STACKING TO GO STRAIGHT ACROSS.
APOLOGIZE, BOB AND I BOTH LIVE RIGHT THERE.
SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE SO FAMILIAR WITH THE, OR WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
I, YES, WE BOTH LIVE RIGHT THERE.
UM, WE GO THROUGH THAT EVERY DAY.
ANTHONY, IS IT SAFE TO ASSUME THAT WITH THIS DESIGN, WHICH DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE CHANGED MONTHS SINCE THE LAST TIME IT WAS PRESENTED HERE, UM, IS IT SAFE TO ASSUME THAT THIS DOES NOTHING TO HELP TRAFFIC, BUT IT DEFINITELY WOULD IMPEDE IT SPECIFICALLY THE ENTRY AND EXIT FROM BEACON IN THE MORNING AND THE AFTERNOON? SO I, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE, THEY'RE WITHIN COMPLIANCE WITH TRAFFIC STUDIES, BUT HOLISTICALLY, IS TRAFFIC GONNA GET ANY BETTER? OR, OR IS IT LIKELY GONNA GET WORSE? WELL, IT'S DEFINITELY, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT GETTING WORSE OR ELSE IT WOULDN'T, WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO, TO PROVE IT.
SO LIKE, SO IF IT WAS GETTING WORSE, THERE'D BE ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS BEYOND WHAT'S SHOWN, I GUESS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY, THEY WOULD SATISFY ANY, ANY DETRIMENT, I GUESS, LET'S SAY TO THE TRAFFIC.
SO WHEN A TRAFFIC STUDY LOOKS INTO ITSELF FROM
[00:20:01]
SAY SEVEN TO SEVEN 30 IN THE MORNING, THE TRAFFIC FLOW NOW WILL, IT'LL, WITH THIS DESIGN, THE EXPECTATION WOULD BE THE SAME TRAFFIC FLOW THAT THAT'S THE IDEA.THE, THE IDEA BEHIND THE ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENT AND THE CHANNELIZATION AND THE SEPARATION OF THE LANES, UH, WAS TO, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY ENSURE THAT THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC IS NOT WORSENED OR IMPEDED VERSUS WHAT, WHAT'S OUT THERE TODAY.
BUT TO PROVIDE A, A ALSO TO TRY TO PROVIDE A STEP IN THE DIRECTION OF THE FUTURE, UM, IN TERMS OF, UH, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL SIGNALIZATION AND OTHER IMPROVEMENTS TO THAT FACILITATES THE INTERSECTION AS A WHOLE.
UH, BUT, BUT YEAH, SO IT'S NOT THE I WHAT WAS BEING PROPOSED AND PROVIDED ON THE PLAN, THE GENERALIZATION AND EVERYTHING IS, UH, BASED ON WHAT WE'VE SEEN AND EVERYTHING THAT WE PROJECT, IT SEEMS THAT IT WOULD, IT, IT SHOULDN'T IMPEDE WHAT'S OUT THERE TODAY.
SO WOULD FUTURE PLANS WITH, UH, SIGNALS, I'M ASSUMING YOU'RE, YOU'RE REFERRING TO BOND INTERSECTION? YES.
WOULD THAT LIKELY ADDRESS ANY CONGESTION OF THE RESIDENTS TRYING TO GET OUT OF BEACON? UH, YEAH, THAT'S BEEN, THAT'S BEEN SOME OF THE ONGOING DIALOGUE AT THE ORCHARD COURT ON THE OTHER, ON, YEAH, THAT'S THE SIDE.
NO, BUT THE RESIDENT OF THIS NEW PLAN, OH, BE THE BEACON COURT UP.
MY ASSUMPTION IS THE ONLY TRAFFIC IMPEDANCE IF IF EVERYTHING'S FLOWING YES.
THEY'RE JUST GONNA BE STUCK IN THERE.
SO, SO IF THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND THEIR GAS IN THE MORNING THROUGH ALL THE, THE SCHOOL TIMES AND THOSE PEAK TIMES, YES.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'LL HAVE TO FIND THEIR GAS IN ORDER TO, TO MAKE THEIR MOVEMENTS IN AND OUT, BUT THAT WOULD BE INTERNAL TO THE SITE AND THEY, THEY WOULD HAVE TO WAIT TO SIGN.
MY POSITION WOULD BE THEY'RE GONNA MAKE A LOT OF RIGHT THERE IN THE MORNING TO GET OUT OF, IT'S GONNA BE HARD FOR 'EM TO MAKE A LEFT.
SO SIGNAL AT VAUGHN INTERSECTION IN THE FUTURE COULD POSSIBLY SOLVE THAT ISSUE AT THE EXIT, EXIT OF THE RESIDENCE.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT COULD BE LOOKED WELL? YEAH.
SO A FUTURE SIGNAL, FOR EXAMPLE, AT THIS LOCATION WOULD CERTAINLY HELP ADDITIONAL GAPS, I GUESS FOR, OKAY.
UH, THE BEACON COURT RESIDENCE.
SO IT IS NOT THE, THEY, UH, SO THEY'RE SATISFACTORILY MET TODAY.
YOU KNOW, THEY JUST HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, WAIT AND FIND, FIND THEIR TIMES.
BUT, UM, CERTAINLY ANY SIGNAL CONTROL DOWN INTERSECTION WOULD ONLY IMPROVE THE GAS THAT, THAT, THAT EXISTS I GUESS THERE TODAY, YOU KNOW, WE'D PROVIDE, YOU'D HAVE YOUR CONTROLS HERE AT THE LEWIS ORCHARD VAUGHN INTERSECTION, AND THEN IN TURN THAT WOULD PROVIDE ADDITIONAL GAPS AND MORE, MORE FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT OUT OF THE, THE BEACON COURT ACCESS.
UM, SO IT WOULD CERTAINLY BENEFIT THEM.
AND I THINK TOO, I WAS GONNA SAY, JUST LOOKING AT THE, UH, THE TRIP TRAFFIC IMPACT, I THINK THERE WAS 14 NEW TRIPS DURING THE WEEKDAY AFTERNOON PEAK HOUR.
SO IT'S NOT A A, I DON'T WANNA SAY MINIMIZE IT, BUT IT, IT'S NOT A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF MM-HMM.
AND THAT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, TO THAT, TO THAT POINT, THANKS NICK.
IS THAT I, I DIDN'T HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF ME, BUT THAT'S KIND OF WHAT GOES INTO WHETHER OR NOT FULL ACCESS MOVEMENTS WOULD BE ALLOWED AT THE BEACON COURT, YOU KNOW, SO IF THERE WAS PROBLEMS WITH THOSE VOLUMES THAT WE WOULD SEE, YOU KNOW, YOU'D BE LOOKING AT ADDITIONAL WIDENING FOR ANOTHER LEFT TURN LANE OR A RIGHT TURN LANE AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.
SO THEY'RE, THOSE WERE SATISFACTORILY MET FROM
IT, WELL, YEAH, WE, WE LOOK AT IT DURING THE, THE SCHOOL MONTHS, UM, SCHOOLING SESSION.
SO WHEN WE REVIEW THE ANALYSIS AND THE ANALYSIS PROVIDED, WE, THAT'S ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS WE ENSURE THAT IT'S DONE DURING THAT 'CAUSE THAT THAT'S WHEN YOU SEE HIGHER AMOUNTS OF TRAFFIC.
UM, WE GENERALLY DON'T, DON'T ACCEPT WITHOUT SOME MAJOR PROJECTIONS.
UH, SO THOSE ARE DONE DURING SCHOOL SESSION.
AND AGAIN, NOT TO CONTINUE TO TOOT OUR OWN HORN, BUT ANY WAY THAT THE TOWNSHIP WANTS TO AMELIORATE THAT INTERSECTION OR THAT TRAFFIC FLOW MOVING FORWARD, WE PROVIDED NOT ONLY DESIGN, BUT ADDITIONAL RIGHT OF WAY BEYOND WHAT, SO IF THERE IS SIGNALIZATION THAT IS DESIRED, THAT THERE'S ROOM FOR THAT.
IF IT'S SIMPLY WHAT'S DEPICTED HERE, EVERYTHING IS, WE'RE LESS ACCOUNTED FOR.
I THINK OUR CONCERN, OUR CONCERN IS OUR, SORRY, OUR CONCERN IS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS INTERSECTION OF HIGH SCHOOL COURSES RIGHT THERE.
YOU KNOW, I, I'M CONCERNED THAT THESE PEOPLE TRYING TO GET OUT OF THERE IS GOING, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH I KNOW IT'S NOT A LOT, BUT FOR THAT HOUR OR WHATEVER, HALF HOURS, IT'S GONNA' BE TOUGH FOR THEM TO GET IN AND OUT THERE WHILE SCHOOL'S OFF.
I WILL TELL YOU THAT WE HAD, UM, EXTENSIVE MULTI-PARTY, I THINK IT WAS THE BIGGEST ZOOM CALL I'VE EVER BEEN ON IN MY LIFE WITH PENNDOT ABOUT THIS.
AND PENNDOT FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, WAS HAPPY WITH WHAT WE DID.
AND WE ACTUALLY HAD TO CHANGE IT A LITTLE BIT.
WE HAD TO SHIFT, WE DID MODIFY THE, WE HAD TO MODIFY THE DRIVEWAY GOT MOVED, UH, TOWARD THE HIGH SCHOOL.
IN ORDER TO, TO, TO MATCH MORE SITE DISTANCE.
I THINK IT REALLY WAS COLLABORATIVE BETWEEN THE TOWNSHIP, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE
[00:25:01]
THINK YOU GUYS HAVE DONE SO EVERY, I I'M NOT PRI I'M JUST, I'M JUST CONCERNED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, I KNOW WHAT BOB, YOU KNOW, WHAT IT GETS LIKE IN THE MORNING THERE INTERSECTION, IT REALLY IS SO MANY NEAR ACCIDENTS.SO I THINK WE'RE JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
BUT I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU GUYS, ANTHONY'S DOING EVERYTHING HE CAN, JUST TALKING EARLIER ABOUT THIS, I THINK HE'S DOING EVERYTHING HE CAN TO, YOU KNOW, LOOK OUT FOR THE, FOR THE, FOR THE TOWNSHIP PEOPLE.
ALL, YOU KNOW, ALL THE PEOPLE, NOT JUST THOSE RESIDENTS ORCHARD COURT, BUT EVERYBODY THAT TRAVELS THAT ROAD ON A REGULAR BASIS.
SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU'RE DOING A LOT TO TRY TO MAKE IT BETTER, YOU KNOW, BUT MY CLIENT IS AS WELL, BY THE WAY.
AND I THINK YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL IN KEEPING, UH, TRYING TO KEEP THIS THING MOVING AND, UH, AND ALL THAT.
UH, IS THERE A PLACE IN HERE FOR THE BOY SCOUTS TO PUT THE CHRISTMAS TREE, UH, TREE MAYBE IN THAT GRASSY AREA BETWEEN THE TOWNHOUSES AND YOUR ZONING CLERK CALLS?
IS, UH, ANYBODY HAVE ANY CONCERNS THEY WANT TO, BEFORE WE TAKE A VOTE AND WOULD BE CONDITION OR JEFF DESCRIBED IS CLEANING UP THE TOWNSHIP ISSUES ON THE CONSULTANT'S LETTERS BEFORE IT GOT APPROVED BY THE TOWNSHIP SUPERVISOR.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY CONCERNS THEY WANT TO VOTE OR, UH, VOICE BEFORE WE, UH, TAKE A VOTE? MR. WRIGHT? YES, I ASK.
STEP UP AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
UH, JOE PETERS NINE DANA DRIVE.
UM, THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE TERRIBLE INTERSECTION AS YOU ALL ADMITTED.
AND IT APPEARS AS THOUGH FROM THIS DEVELOPMENT'S PERSPECTIVE, THEY'VE DONE QUITE A BIT TO HELP MOVE TRAFFIC FLOW.
LIKE I SAID, THIS WHOLE INTERSECTION YEAH.
IT'S, IN MY OPINION, UM, AGAIN, IT MAY NOT BE PART OF THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION, PERHAPS, ALTHOUGH THERE'S SOME IMPACT.
UM, I, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN WITH THIS INTERSECTION? WELL, I THINK THAT I'LL LET ANTHONY GO AGAIN.
'CAUSE I, LIKE I SAID, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS JUST BEFORE THIS MEETING AND I KNOW HE'S GOT INTO A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS WITH DIFFERENT ENGINEERING GROUPS AS WELL AS HIS OWN PEOPLE IN THE STATE.
SO ANTHONY, YOU WANT TO JUST GIVE HIM ANOTHER AND WHAT, AND WHAT ARE THE COMMITMENTS ON, YOU KNOW, BEEN MADE TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT WE SEE HERE TO IMPROVE THIS INTERSECTION? YEAH, SO I CAN, YOU KNOW, FAIR, FAIR CONCERN.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE'S VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS INTERSECTION, SO I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN FOR SURE.
AND WE'VE, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF DIALOGUE INTERNALLY WITH STAFF AND, UH, WITHIN OUR OFFICE TOO, TO TRY TO COME TO THAT RESO.
WHAT, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? UM, SO WE'RE IN, WHAT I CAN SAY IS WE'RE NOTHING'S FINALIZED YET.
WE'RE IN VERY EARLY STAGES OF ANALYSIS AND, BUT WE, WE HAVE TAKEN A PRELIMINARY LOOK BASED ON THE CONCERNS RAISED BY THE RESIDENTS OF PORT COURT, THE RESIDENTS AT LARGE, AND THE TOWNSHIP STAFF.
AND AS THIS, UH, DEVELOPMENT IS GOING ON, SO WE WE'RE, LOOK, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS AS A, THAT, THAT SOLUTION, UM, AND AGAIN, NOTHING'S BEEN DRAWN ON THE PAPER YET, BUT WE'VE DONE SOME PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS AND IT, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS AN OFFSET SIGNALED INTERSECTION.
UM, SO AT ORCHARD COURT, THE EGRESS MOVEMENT TRAFFIC SIGNAL AT THE INTERSECTION AROUND THE BEND AT LEWIS AND V SIGNAL, AND, AND THOSE TWO SIGNALS WOULD WORK IN CONJUNCTION TO BASICALLY ALLOW IT JUST LIKE A TRADITIONAL, UM, IT'S AN OFF OFFSET INTERSECTION, BUT WOULD, IT WOULD ALLOW MOVEMENT OF FLOW FOR THE ORCHARD COURT.
IT WOULD ESSENTIALLY WORK LIKE A FOUR-WAY INTERSECTION.
SO ORCHARD COURT EXIT SOUTHBOUND LEWIS WOULD WORK, BASICALLY VAUGHN EXIT, THE NORTHBOUND APPROACH OF LEWIS WOULD WORK SIMULTANEOUSLY TO FACILITATE ALL OF THE TURNING MOVEMENTS IN AND OUT OF ORCHARD.
THE TURNING MOVEMENTS AROUND THE LEWIS BEND.
UM, THERE'S AN, THERE'S A VERY SIMILAR EXAMPLE TO THAT, VERY CLOSE TO OUR FORT WASHINGTON OFFICE WHERE THERE'S ALMOST AN IDENTICAL SETUP TO THIS, UM, WITH MUCH MORE TRAFFIC, UM, THAN THE ORCHARD PRODUCES.
AND, AND IT SEEMS TO BE FUNCTIONING PRETTY WELL.
[00:30:01]
WE WOULD HAVE A, IT WOULD BE A SIGNALED INTERSECTION THAT WOULD FACILITATE A MORE CONTROLLED AND SAY MOVEMENTS FOR ALL APPROACHES AT THAT, AT THAT LOCATION.AGAIN, I'M NOT SURE THAT, THAT THIS, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED IS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT NECESSARILY PROHIBITS YOU FROM DECIDING THIS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT.
BUT WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS TO, TO MAKE WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED ACTUALLY BECOME REALITY.
WE ARE HAVING, WE ACTUALLY, WE TRADED A BUNCH OF EMAILS ABOUT IT TODAY.
WE'RE GOING TO BE PUTTING THAT, AND I'M SURE YOU'LL BE THERE ON SOME OF THE BUDGET MEETINGS AND THE BUDGET WORKSHOPS TO GET, TO MAKE SURE THE, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMAL TO MAKE SURE THAT, THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IS BUYING INTO IT AND IT GOES INTO OUR LONG-TERM CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN.
BUT IS THAT, IS THAT IN ANY WAY TIED INTO THIS PARTICULAR NO, THIS DEVELOPMENT HAS DONE EVERYTHING THAT THEY, THEY'RE LEGALLY REQUIRED TO DO IN TERMS OF IMPROVEMENTS AND EVEN A LITTLE ABOVE, EVEN ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT THEY'RE, WHAT THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO.
SO AS MUCH AS I WOULD LOVE FOR THEM TO PAY FOR IT,
YOU KNOW, BUT AS LONG AS THERE'S, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING DEFINITIVE THAT'S PART OF THE PLANS TO MAKE THIS INTERSECTION AND, AND THAT'S SAFER BECAUSE THAT, TO ME IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A FREE FOR ALL WHEN YOU GO THERE.
AND, AND, AND THOSE, THOSE ARE THE CONVERSATIONS WE'VE HAD WITH THE ORCHARD.
WHY I WASN'T THERE, BUT JOE AND ANTHONY HAD WITH THE ORCHARD COURT, THAT THEY WANT TO KNOW THAT SOMETHING'S GONNA HAPPEN TO YOU.
SO WE'RE, WE NEED TO GET THE BOARD TO BUY IN.
'CAUSE THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THE BOARD'S THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY.
IF WE CAN GET THE BOARD TO GET IT ONTO THE LONG TERM, WHETHER IT'S THIS YEAR OR NEXT YEAR INTO THE BUDGET, WE CAN GET THE IMPROVEMENTS DONE AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET THEM DONE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF THIS SITE, IF NOT VERY SOON AFTER.
BUT, BUT I'M ASSUMING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT THAT'S KIND OF INDEPENDENT OF THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION.
THE OFF INTERSECTION WOULD BE INDEPENDENT OF THAT, THAT PARTICULAR IT'S NOT, YEAH, IT WON'T BE BOARD.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT ON THE GOOD SIDE, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THIS DEVELOPMENT, HAVE NOW FORCED US, AND THAT MIGHT BE THE WRONG WORD, BUT HAVE NOW MADE THIS VERY OBVIOUS THAT THIS INTERSECTION NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.
SO IF IT WASN'T FOR THAT DEVELOPMENT, WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T PROBABLY BE STAYING THE WAY IT IS.
A LONGER, NOW THAT WE HAVE SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE DESIGN WORK DONE, SOME FUTURE SIGNALS DESIGN WORK DONE, IT MAKES, AND WITH THE, THE TRAFFIC, IT MAKES IT PRIME FOR A GREEN LIGHT GOING FOR GRANTS FROM PENDOT.
AND WE CAN THROUGH OUR, THROUGH OUR GRANT COMPANY AND THROUGH OUR CONNECTIONS AND PENDO PUSH FOR THAT AND HOPEFULLY GET PENDO TO PAY FOR A GOOD PORTION OF IT.
AND PERHAPS AS PART OF YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, YOU CAN INCLUDE THE FACT THAT YOU HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT THE SUPERVISORS TAKE THE NECESSARY STEPS TO APPROVE FUNDING AND BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, TO HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEMS WITH THIS INTERSECTION.
UM, THAT'S, I I WOULDN'T, I, I DON'T, I I WOULDN'T TIE 'EM TOGETHER BECAUSE THAT'S, I WOULDN'T TIE TOGETHER AT THIS POINT.
YOUR EMOTION IS FOR THIS PLAN, NOT, IT'S TWO, TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT, AND THAT'S HAPPENING.
PEOPLE HAVE DONE EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO MAKE IT BETTER.
AND I DON'T WANT TO TIE THE TWO THAT, YOU KNOW, THE SUPERVISOR WOULD SAY, WELL, YOU GOTTA, NAH, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.
I DON'T WANT TO PUT THAT BURDEN ON YOU GUYS.
AND I THINK THE OTHER THING YOU HEARD TOO, FROM THE APPLICANT IS THAT THE WAY THEY DESIGN, NOT JUST THE CURRENT IMPROVEMENTS, BUT THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY THAT THEY'RE DEDICATED TO THE TOWNSHIP WITH ANTHONY'S DESIGN, THAT ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY WOULD ALLOW THAT PENDO PLAN TO GO FORWARD WITHOUT US HAVING TO GO BACK THIS PROPERTY AND ASK FOR ANYTHING ELSE.
SO THEY ARE, THEY'RE ALREADY KIND OF TIED TOGETHER, SO THANK YOU.
SO, UH, UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? WE WILL, UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, THE FINAL TO THE SUPERVISORS TO RECOMMENDATION TO THE SUPERVISORS FOR APPROVAL, UH, WITH THE CAVEAT OF THE CLEANING UP THE, UH, THE LETTERS, THE LANGUAGE IN THE LETTERS AND, UM, UM, THAT JEFF SPOKE ABOUT.
UM, AND, UH, SO I'LL TAKE THAT MOTION IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO MAKE, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, UH, MOVE THIS PLAN FORWARD FOR FINAL PLAN.
SUPPOSEDLY MADE A MOTION THAT WE RECOMMEND THIS TO THE SUPERVISORS FOR APPROVAL.
SO, ALL IN FAVOR, A SO, UH, CONGRATULATIONS, YOU'VE BEEN APPROVED.
WE'LL BILL TO SUPERVISORS AND YOU KNOW WHAT THE GATE IS FROM THERE.
AND AGAIN, I APPRECIATE YOUR TAKING US OUT OF TURN.
I APPRECIATE YOU LETTING ME DO THAT.
SO YOU WANT TURN? IS THAT HOW THAT WORKS? WELL, ALL YOU BUDDY.
MOVING RIGHT ALONG INTO THE NEXT ONE, INTO THE NEXT PHASE OF THE MEETING.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
NO, WE HAVE TO[00:35:01]
APPROVE.WE'RE COMPLETELY OUT ORDER AND CHERYL'S GONNA KILL ME, BUT, UM, HAS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE MINUTES? YES.
AND ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THEM? YES.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 16TH, 2020.
THE NEXT DISCUSSION IS ALL ME, SO, OKAY, I'LL TAKE OVER.
UM, AS WE TALKED ABOUT LAST MONTH, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SORT OF LAYERS UPON LAYERS AND BUILDING.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT DEMOGRAPHICS, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SORT OF A HOUSING ANALYSIS.
ONE SMALL PIECE THAT WE STILL NEED TO TALK ABOUT IS, IS, UM, EXISTING LAND USE.
AND IN YOUR PACKET THAT I SENSE LAST WEEK, I PUT A MAP, IT IS GOT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT VERSION OF IT.
I, I FOUND A COUPLE PARCELS I NEED TO UPDATE.
BUT GENERALLY THIS IS THE TOWNSHIP AND ALL THE LAND USES IN THE TOWNSHIP.
IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO READ ON THE BIG SCREEN, BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, IT IS PREDOMINANTLY ALMOST, YOU KNOW, ALMOST A FULL THIRD OF THE PROPERTY IS SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED.
AND LET ME ZOOM IN ON THE, THE CHART HERE.
SO THAT LARGE BAR HERE IS ALL SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED, AND THAT'S ABOUT 32% OF THE POP, 32% OF THE LAND AREA OF THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, AND THEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, THAT ENCOMPASSES 35% AND YOU WOULD EXPECT A BIGGER JUMP.
BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN YOU GET TO A TOWNHOUSE COMMUNITY OR AN APARTMENT COMMUNITY, YOU HAVE GREEN AREA THAT BECAUSE IT'S OWNED BY AN H O A AND NOT A SPECIFIC PERSON, IT TENDS TO BE COUNTED AS OPEN SPACE.
SO THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS ARE THE YELLOW, YOU KNOW, THE YELLOW AND THE GREEN IN HERE.
AND, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT IT, IT IS MOST OF THE TOWNSHIP.
YOU'VE GOT SOME RED, THAT'S RETAIL.
THE PINK COLORS IS, IS THE OFFICE.
UM, A LARGE PORTION OF IT'S THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S PROPERTY.
AND DOWN IN THIS PORTION OF THE TOWNSHIP YOU HAVE THIS LIGHTER PINK, WHICH IS ALL THE INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY.
UM, I THINK THE TWO, NOT TWO MOST NOTABLE THINGS ON THIS CHART ARE, UM, AGAIN, THIS IS REALLY HARD TO READ FROM.
I THINK ONE OF THE, THE TWO MOST INTERESTING THINGS I THINK ABOUT THE CHART ARE THAT WE'RE SITTING RIGHT NOW AT, AT 4.79% VACANT PROPERTY.
SO WE'RE DOWN BELOW 5% OF PROPERTY THAT CAN STILL BE DEVELOPED IN THE TOWNSHIP.
NOW THIS ALSO, THAT CALCULATION TAKES OUT ANYTHING THAT'S CURRENTLY UNDER APPLICATION.
SO PARKHOUSE IS NOT INCLUDED IN THAT NUMBER.
UM, YOU KNOW, ANY OTHER PROPERTY THAT, THAT IS NOT BUILT YET BUT IS IS THROUGH IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
SO REALLY WE HAVE VERY LITTLE, VERY LITTLE OPEN SPACE LEFT OR VERY LITTLE, UM, UNDEVELOPED PROPERTY LEFT.
AND THE, THERE ARE REALLY THREE OR FOUR MAIN AREAS THERE WE ARE THAT WE HAVE OPEN SPACE LEFT.
THERE'S THIS AREA AT THE BOTTOM OF SECOND AVENUE, OLD STATE ROAD, SORT OF SURROUNDED BY, UM, HAFNER ROAD GOING UP THE PICO RIGHT AWAY A LITTLE BIT.
THIS IS, I, I THINK THIS IS A GOOD AREA.
THIS IS AN AREA THAT COULD BE DEVELOPED.
IT'S A LITTLE MORE PROBLEMATIC THAN MOST BECAUSE YOU HAVE PICO RUNNING THROUGH IT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LOT OF INDIVIDUAL LANDOWNERS.
BUT SURPRISINGLY IT ON THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH SIDE OF A SECOND AVENUE, IT'S ABOUT 175 ACRES.
SO IT'S STILL A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF PROPERTY LEFT TO DEVELOP IF IT WERE TO DEVELOP.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT HAS TO DEVELOP, I'M JUST SAYING THAT, THAT THESE ARE THE VACANT PIECES THAT EVENTUALLY COULD BE SOLD OR COULD BE DEVELOPED BY THE PROPERTY OWNER.
IS IS THAT IN THE 4%? THAT IS IN THE 4%.
THEN YOU HAVE A PORTION ALONG BRIDGE PIKE HERE, WHICH THE, THE, THE RED PART ON THE NORTH SIDE OF RIDGE PIKE MAIN STREET IS LIDLE AND THAT SHOPPING CENTER, THEN YOU HAVE THREE PARCELS NEXT TO IT.
YOU MIGHT RECOGNIZE THIS SLIGHTLY NEBRASKA LOOKING PIECE THAT, UM, CAME IN FROM PULTE A FEW YEARS AGO.
UM, IT'S BEEN RELATIVELY QUIET.
I HAVE A MEETING YEARLY WITH HIS AOS WHO OWN THIS.
UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME IRONS IN THE FIRE, BUT I THINK THAT THIS IS A REALLY PRIME AREA FOR DEVELOPMENT AND, AND SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD LOOK AT IN THE FUTURE OF HOW THE TOWNSHIP BEST THINKS THAT THAT SHOULD BE DEVELOPED.
THEN THERE'S THIS PIECE HERE, WHICH IS BOTH OWNED BY OTTAWA LAND DEVELOPMENT.
IT'S OBVIOUSLY THE TOWN APARTMENTS TOWN CENTER HERE IN RED.
THE APARTMENTS BEHIND IT HERE IN THE, IN THE OFF YELLOW COLOR.
[00:40:01]
THAT THAT'S PROBABLY NOT GONNA DEVELOP UNTIL THE AUDUBON LAND DEVELOPMENT.AND I'VE ASKED 'EM SPECIFICALLY, THEY SAY THEY HAVE NO PLANS FOR IT, BUT A DEVELOPER TELLS YOU THEY HAVE PLANS FOR IT MEANS THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE A PLAN ON YOUR DESK IN MINUTES.
UM, IT, THEY PROBABLY HAVE SOME PLANS FOR IT, BUT THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO TALK ABOUT IT YET.
I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF, AND I ALSO WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THEY WAIT TILL PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER APARTMENTS IS 50, 60, 70% DONE TO, YOU KNOW, AND SEE HOW THAT SORT OF PLAYS OUT.
NOT SAYING THAT I THINK RESIDENTIAL OR APARTMENTS SHOULD GO THERE, BUT I THINK THERE'S SORT OF WAITING TO SEE HOW THAT, THAT PLAYS OUT.
AND THEN THE LAST SECTION IS, IS A SECTION IN THROUGH HERE, THROUGH SORT OF THE CENTER OF, YOU KNOW, THE LOWER PART OF THE TOWNSHIP SOUTH OF, UM, OR WEST OF, OF HOLLOW ROAD, EAST OF OF 29.
THE ISSUE WITH THIS PIECE IS IT, IT'S VERY HILLY.
THIS PIECE HERE IS PROBABLY THE, ACTUALLY IT IS THE HIGHEST POINT IN THE TOWNSHIP AT I THINK 215 FEET.
I HAVE REALLY NICE TOPO MAP IN MY OFFICE.
IF YOU EVER COME BACK THERE THAT SHOWS THE HIGH AND LOW POINTS OF THE TOWNSHIP.
IT, IT MAKES A NICE GRAPHIC, BUT THIS IS THE HIGHEST PART OF THE TOWNSHIP AND IT'S, IT'S PRETTY STEEP AND NOT EASILY DEVELOPED.
SO FROM AN EXISTING LAND USE STANDPOINT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOME AREAS THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT.
WE HAVE SOME AREAS THAT WHEN WE GET TO THE LAND USE PLAN, THESE WILL BE THE AREAS WE TALK ABOUT.
UM, AGAIN, THIS LARGE PIECE HERE THAT'S VACANT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE GLAXOSMITH CLIENT PROPERTY WILL ALSO BE BROUGHT UP.
I DON'T THINK THERE IS PRIME FOR DEVELOPMENT.
I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER FACTORS THAT GO INTO THAT THAT, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WILL TALK ABOUT IN THE LAND USE PLAN AND SORT OF SEE WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD THINKS, YOU KNOW, IS, IS APPROPRIATE USE OF THAT PROPERTY IN THE FUTURE.
UM, I THINK THE OTHER INTERESTING FACT THAT FROM THE LAND USE PLAN IS, OR THE EXISTING LAND USE PLAN IS, IS THE OPEN SPACE.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE TOWNSHIP OPEN SPACE ACCOUNTS FOR 5.37 OF THE LAND AREA OF THE TOWNSHIP.
AGAIN, THAT SEEMS LIKE A FAIRLY LOW NUMBER 'CAUSE WE'RE ONLY 4% LEFT TO DEVELOP, BUT IT STILL ACCOUNTS FOR 678 ACRES OF TOWNSHIP PERMANENTLY PROTECTED OPEN SPACE.
I'VE BEEN TRYING TO CONNECT WITH THE, THE PARK AND REC DIRECTOR TO COME UP WITH A METRIC.
I'M SURE THERE'S SOME AGENCY OUT THERE THAT SAYS, OH, FOR EVERY THOUSAND RESIDENTS YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN X AMOUNT OF OPEN SPACE.
THE ONLY ONE I CAN FIND IS FROM 1965 AND IT WAS FROM PLANNERS.
AND WHILE WE'RE A VERY SMART BUNCH, WE MAY NOT KNOW OPEN SPACE AND PARKS AS WELL AS THE OPEN SPACE AND PARKS PEOPLE DO.
SO I'M TRYING TO FIND THAT AND SHE'S LOOKING FOR IT AND, YOU KNOW, BUT HER JOB IS NOT TO DO MY WORK FOR ME.
SO WE'LL, WE'LL GET THERE AND WE'LL HAVE THAT NUMBER EVENTUALLY.
I, I WANNA SEE HOW THIS FITS IN WITH, WITH THE REST OF THE, THE, THE REST OF THE OTHER AREAS OF, YOU KNOW, OTHER TOWNSHIPS AND, AND IN WITH A, WITH A NATIONAL STANDARD WITH THEN WITH ALL THE SINGLE FAMILY LOTS, SOME OF 'EM ARE DECENT SIZE, THERE'S SOME GREEN SPACE AROUND THAT.
SO IT'D BE A LOT DIFFERENT THAN THE CITY, FOR EXAMPLE.
AND AND IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT I GAVE YOU TODAY IS I GAVE YOU A COPY OF EVERYTHING.
IT STARTS WITH COMMUNITY OVERVIEW.
THAT IS THE WHOLE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
THERE'S A LOT OF HOLES, THERE'S A LOT OF GRAPHIC THINGS I NEED TO FIX.
THERE'S A, SOME ENGLISH AND OTHER AREAS.
SOME THINGS DON'T REALLY FLOW, BUT THIS IS EVERYTHING WE'VE WRITTEN SO FAR.
UM, AND, AND WE'RE KIND OF GETTING DOWN TO IT NEXT WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT MS FOUR AND SOME TRANSPORTATION STUFF AND THEN AFTER THAT LAND USE.
BUT WHAT THIS WHOLE PLAN SORT OF SHOWS YOU IS THAT THE, THE TOWNSHIP IS ON UNFAIRLY SOLID GROUND AT THIS POINT.
I MEAN, WE HAVE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO FIX, WE HAVE THINGS WE NEED TO ADDRESS.
BUT FROM A DEMOGRAPHIC STANDPOINT, FROM A HOUSING STANDPOINT, FROM AN EXISTING LAND USE STANDPOINT, WE'RE, WE'RE FAIRLY SOLID.
YOU KNOW, FOR THIS PLANNING CYCLE, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THERE'S NOT A LOT WE WE REALLY NEED TO CHANGE NECESSARILY, BUT THERE ARE THINGS WE NEED TO ADDRESS AND THINGS WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF FOR OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS.
WHAT COULD POSSIBLY COME IN FOR AND WHAT COULD BE DEVELOPED.
BOB, BACK TO YOUR POINT ABOUT OPEN SPACE AND, AND IF YOU LOOK AT ON PAGE 31, THE OPEN SPACE CONTROL BY H O A IS FAR AND AWAY THE LARGEST CONTROLLER OF OPEN SPACE IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
THEY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S MONTGOMERY COUNTY AND, AND THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA.
WE CAN TALK ABOUT THOSE ISSUES HERE IN A SECOND.
BUT THEY HAVE 1700 ACRES OF H O A CONTROLLED OPEN SPACE THAT WILL NEVER BE DEVELOPED AND WILL ALSO MOST LIKELY NEVER COST THE TOWNSHIP ANY MONEY TO MAINTAIN.
THERE'S ALWAYS A CHANCE THAT WE HAVE TO GO IN THERE, THERE AND FIX A STORM PIPE OR SOMETHING FOR SOMEBODY BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE IT, OR WE CAN'T GET AHOLD OF THE H O A.
THOSE AREN'T THINGS WE REALLY NEED TO WORRY ABOUT.
BUT, SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT UPPER PROVIDENCE OPEN SPACE AND OPEN SPACE CONTROL BY THE H O A OF 2300 ACRES, I MEAN THAT'S A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT OUT OF 12,000.
THAT'S A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT NUMBER.
WHEN YOU ADD IN THE 5 495 BY MONTGOMERY COUNTY AND THE 118 BY THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA, IT ADDS ANOTHER 5% OR
[00:45:01]
JUST SHORT OF 5%.I DON'T REALLY LIKE TO INCLUDE THAT BECAUSE I GUESS WE'LL CALL IT THE BURN FROM PARKHOUSE.
LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT IT SAYING, HEY, MONTGOMERY COUNTY OWNS THIS MUCH OPEN SPACE.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, AS I SAY IN THAT LAST PARAGRAPH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO REGULATORY RESTRICTIONS ON ANY OF THE STATE OR THE, THE COUNTY FROM DIVESTING THEMSELVES OF MOST OF THOSE PROPERTIES.
AT LEAST NONE THAT WE'RE AWARE OF.
THERE MAY BE DEEDS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT.
IF SOMEONE WAS TO, IF MONTGOMERY COUNTY WERE TO TRY IT AGAIN, LET'S SAY, WHICH LET'S HOPE THEY DON'T.
UM, BUT FROM AN OPEN SPACE STANDPOINT, I THINK AGAIN, THE TOWNSHIP'S IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE BECAUSE WE HAVE FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT OPEN SPACE.
WHEN WE DO MOVE DEVELOPMENT FORWARD, WE REQUIRE MORE OPEN SPACE.
SO EVEN IF LIKE, LET'S, AND THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE WHAT FOLEY IS GOING TO BE GIVING US OPEN SPACE, AND THAT'S A, A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT PIECE.
UM, NOT GIVING US, BUT, BUT PUTTING IN THE H O A, UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I I THINK THAT HOPEFULLY THIS GIVES YOU A GOOD SENSE OF JUST WHAT IS IN THE TOWNSHIP, WHAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT FOR THE EXISTING LAND USE PLAN AND HOW THAT SORT OF WORKS WITH STORMWATER AND WITH WITH TRAFFIC.
AND, AND IF THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS WE CAN, JEFF JUST, UH, ONE, I THOUGHT OF THE LAST CONVERSATION, I DON'T, I WASN'T, I DON'T THINK IT WAS AT THE LAST MEETING.
UM, BUT THE LAST ONE I WAS AT WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PLAN, I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY VALUABLE THAT YOU BROUGHT UP THE FUTURE OF THE POST COVID ENVIRONMENT WE'RE IN AND THE DEVELOP THE INDUSTRIES OF OUR COLOR ROAD SPECIFICALLY AND THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NOT BEING UTILIZED.
SO THE QUESTION I HAVE, AND IT'S PROBABLY JUST MORE A THOUGHT PIECE AT THIS POINT, BUT, UM, SO IF SOMETHING GETS CHANGED FROM OFFICE, CORPORATE CAMPUS TO RESIDENTIAL, I'M ASSUMING THAT HAS TO BE CONSIDERED IN THE LANGUAGE AT SOME POINT IN THE PLAN IF WE'RE EXPECTING IT.
AND SECONDLY IS ALSO A GOOD ASSUMPTION THAT IF IT GOES TO RESIDENTIAL, THERE ARE THEN ADDITIONAL OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS FOR THEM.
LET'S START WITH THE FIRST ONE.
I'M HOPING THAT AS PART OF OUR LAND USE PLAN, WE DISCUSS AND WE LOOK AT AND WE COME UP WITH A POLICY THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THAT THE BOARD LIKES FOR HOW TO USE THESE EXISTING OFFICE BUILDINGS THAT ARE UNDERUTILIZED AND EXISTING RETAIL THAT'S UNDERUTILIZED.
I MEAN, JUST TODAY NICOLE SENT ME THE, THE RE THE LISTING FOR THE QUEST BUILDING HERE.
YOU KNOW, THAT IT, IT JUST, IT JUST WENT ON THE MARKET.
I'VE ALREADY RECEIVED PHONE CALLS ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, SO PEOPLE WANT TO CONVERT IT TO APARTMENTS, PEOPLE WANT TO CONVERT IT TO OTHER THINGS.
AS WITH EVERYTHING I SAY, BRING US A PLAN, SHOW US WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND WE'LL ADDRESS IT.
I MEAN I WOULD BE AMAZED IF I GOT SOMEBODY SAID, HEY, I BOUGHT IT.
I'M GONNA MOVE X BUSINESS IN THERE TOMORROW.
WHAT DO I NEED TO DO? IT WOULD BE GREAT.
I'D HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN WITH 1000 ARCOLA ROAD OR 405, I'M SORRY, 400, 500 CAMPUS OR A THOUSAND CAMPUS DRIVE, ALL OF WHICH HAVE CONTACTED ME ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN DO THERE.
I'M HOPING WE CAN ADDRESS THAT AND I'M HOPING WE CAN COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF POLICY.
I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE A MAGIC BULLET AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE ANY HARD ANSWERS.
BUT WE CAN COME UP WITH A TOWNSHIP POLICY THAT SAYS WE PREFER NOT TO SEE A, B AND C OR WE PREFER TO SEE D, E AND F AND WHAT THAT WOULD REQUIRE.
NOW IF 1000 CAMPUS DRIVE CONVERTS TO APARTMENTS, IT'S GONNA BE PRETTY HARD FOR THEM TO MAKE ANY NEW OPEN SPACE 'CAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE PARKING AND THEY, THEY ALREADY HAVE, IT'S ALREADY DEVELOPED HOW THEY HAVE, IT'S REDEVELOPING EXISTING BUILDING.
SO IN A CASE LIKE THAT, PROBABLY NOT.
BUT IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE MAJOR CORPORATE CAMPUSES LIKE GLAXO OR PFIZER, IF, IF ONE OF THOSE WAS TO CONVERT AGAIN OR ONE OF THOSE WAS TO TRY TO BUILD NEW, WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS AND WHAT OPEN SPACE WAS NECESSARY FOR THAT.
IT'S GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT OF A CHALLENGE WHEN IT'S A REDEVELOPMENT OF A SITE, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT AND CERTAINLY MAKE A POLICY FOR IT.
'CAUSE THOSE CAMPUSES, CORRECT ME IF WRONG, THEY DON'T COUNT AT ALL AS OPEN SPACE, RIGHT? 'CAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT.
UM, SO THIS PART, THIS ONE WAS FAIRLY SIMPLE, NOT, NOT A LOT, NOT A LOT OF COMPLICATED MATH ON THIS ONE.
UM, BUT AGAIN, WE'LL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT SOME OTHERS AT THE NEXT MEETING.
I THINK WE'RE GONNA BE MEETING ON THE 18TH AND THEN WE'LL SEE HOW, HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.
AND THEN WE'LL HAVE TO START WORKING ON THE LINEAGE PLAN.
AND THAT MIGHT GET A LITTLE CONTENTIOUS, BUT WE WILL MAKE SOME SUGGESTIONS AND SEE WHAT WE CAN GO WITH IT.
BUT WE'RE NOT PROPOSING TO CHANGE ANY OF THE EXISTING,
[00:50:01]
UH, DISTRICTS.AND, AND MAYBE WE WILL WHEN WE GET TO THE EXISTING LAND USE PLAN, BUT RIGHT NOW NO, WE'RE NOT.
I JUST REALLY WANTED YOU TO GET A HARD COPY OF THE MAP BECAUSE I REALIZED THAT SOMETIMES OVER THE, ON THE COMPUTER SCREEN, SO THERE'S A HARD COPY IN THERE, 11 BY 17.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, I, I WROTE UP A BRIEF, COUPLE, COUPLE PARAGRAPHS ABOUT IT.
AGAIN, SOME OF THESE THINGS GET REFINED AS I THINK ABOUT THEM TWO DAYS AFTER THE MEETING.
AND I, YOU KNOW, LIKE I PUT IN THERE IN THIS NOW I PUT IN THE BEGINNINGS OF A HOUSING CONCLUSION, A LITTLE BIT OF A DEMOGRAPHICS CONCLUSION THAT, THAT SUMS UP I THINK WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT AT THIS MEETING.
AND WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS START TALKING ABOUT SOME ACTION ITEMS. AND I THINK THAT REALLY COMES OUT OF THE LAND USE PLAN AND WHAT FLOWS OUT OF THE LAND USE PLAN.
AND THOSE ACTION ITEMS WILL, YOU KNOW, THAT'LL BE WHAT WE WORK ON FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS.
WHETHER IT'S REVISING AN ORDINANCE THAT WE THINK NEEDS TO CHANGE.
THIS TOWNSHIP HAS BEEN VERY DRIVEN BY ORDINANCES THAT ARE BROUGHT TO US OR DEVELOPMENTS BROUGHT TO US AND WE SAY, OKAY, WE'LL WRITE AN ORDINANCE TO FIX THAT.
YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE LIKE, WELL, IF WE WANT TO CHANGE IT SO WE REQUIRE MORE OPEN SPACE WITH A CERTAIN KIND OF DEVELOPMENT, WE CHANGE THAT, WE MAKE THAT, WE DRIVE THOSE CHANGES AND WE'RE A LITTLE BIT MORE PROACTIVE AS A FOR, AS OPPOSED TO REACTIVE.
I'M NOT SO SURE IF THIS DIRECTLY AFFECTS US, BUT IT DOES.
PROBABLY THE MOST CRUCIAL THINGS ARE, WE'RE PRETTY SURE THAT WE'LL ALWAYS BE ON THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY OR, OR IS IT CALLED THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY SYSTEM OR WE'RE TIED IN, DOWN TO HOOKS.
SO WE CAN REST ASSURED THAT THAT'S IN THE FORESEEABLE, WE'RE IN GOOD SHAPE FOR THAT.
IS THAT CORRECT? I'LL, I'LL DEFER TO WHAT JEN'S GONNA PROVIDE US IN A COUPLE WEEKS, BUT OH, I THINK, YEAH, THROW ANY MORE CONCERNS YOU HAVE AT ME, WE'LL MAKE SURE WE ADDRESS 'EM IN A COUPLE WEEKS.
THE TREATMENT PLAN DOWN THERE HAS CAPACITY, SO THEY'RE NOT IN ANYTHING THAT'S BEING PROPOSED RIGHT NOW.
THEY'VE GOT CAPACITY FOR THEIR LAST EXPANSION REALLY PROVIDED FOR IT CERTAINLY LOOKS LIKE IT'S VERY MODERN.
IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT'S ARCHAIC OR ANYTHING.
NO, AND I'LL HAVE SOME EXHIBITS THAT SHOW THE CURRENT COVERAGE YOU HAVE IN TOWNSHIP.
YOU DON'T HAVE MANY AREAS THAT YOU CAN EVEN DO.
UM, THE ONE THAT WAS JUST DONE DOWN AT WAS IT ROSECROFT IS DOWN THERE.
UM, YOU'VE DONE A COUPLE IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS, UM, TO COVER A LOT OF THE TOWNSHIP.
AND THEN AN APPLICATION THAT'S IN RIGHT NOW IS, UM, THE KLINE ROAD DEVELOPMENT.
AND THERE'S BE A PUMP STATION AT TAYLOR PARK.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER BIG CHUNK THAT DOESN'T PROVIDE FOR PUBLIC SEWER CURRENTLY.
SO MY EXHIBIT WILL SHOW THOSE.
IT'S ALSO GONNA SHOW THE GREENWOOD AVENUE TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD EXPANSIONS.
THEY'RE SMALLER GREENWOOD, I WAS ONLY 10 LOTS AND TOWNSHIP LINE I BELIEVE WAS FIVE.
UM, BUT THAT'LL BE MAPPED OUT SO YOU'LL SEE WHERE THE GAPS ARE, EVEN THOUGH THOSE AREN'T IN THE GROUND YET.
THEY'LL BE SHOWN ON PLAN AS IF THEY ARE, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE TOWNSHIP DO WE KNOW THAT ISN'T ON THE PUBLIC SYSTEM, HAVE THEIR OWN BACKYARD, UH, SEPTIC SYSTEMS. THAT, THAT'S WHAT'LL BE PART OF MY EXHIBIT.
IS IT GOOD? IT IS FAIRLY LOW, BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE SWEEP IN THE EXTRA A HUNDRED PROPERTIES THAT ARE COVERED, COVERED FOR UP AT TAYLOR FARM.
THAT'S A BIG CHUNK THAT YOU DON'T PROVIDE FOR CURRENTLY, BUT THE NEW HOME STATION WOULD.
SO THAT'LL BE COVERED AND THEN YOU'LL SEE, I'LL WORK IT OUT AS A PERCENTAGE SO THAT YOU HAVE THE PERCENTAGE NUMBER TWO, BUT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE THE LAND AREAS.
I'LL DO LIKE A RED AND GREEN AND YELLOW TYPE OVERLAY SO YOU CAN SEE BIG PICTURE.
NOW THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS WATER.
UM, THAT'S ALWAYS THE CHALLENGE IS TO GET INFORMATION OUT OF P A WC.
THAT'S THE CHALLENGE WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER.
UH, I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH OTHER STAFF MEMBERS THAT DEAL WITH WATER MORE SO THAN I DO THAT, THAT IT IS, GETTING INFORMATION OUT OF PWC IS A BIT OF A CHALLENGE AND GETTING CONFIRMATION OF WHERE THEY'RE GONNA BE PUTTING IN LINES AND THINGS LIKE, THAT'S A CHALLENGE.
YOU KNOW, WE OBVIOUSLY REACH OUT TO THEM WHENEVER WE CAN AND WE SHOW THEM ALL THE NEW PLANS THAT ARE COMING IN AND THEY DON'T SEEM TO HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT, BUT IT'S, IT'S, UM, WE CAN'T GET THEM TO A MEETING, YOU KNOW, TO ADDRESS ISSUES IF WE HAVE THOSE ISSUES.
SO, SO IF WE HAVE ANYBODY BREAKING OUR DOOR DOWN THAT, UH, SAYING WELL, OUR, WELL JUST WENT DRY OR WHATEVER.
AND, UH, WHAT WOULD BE THE FUTURE CHANCE OF GETTING TIED INTO THE PUBLIC SYSTEM? IS THERE ANYBODY LIKE THAT? OR, OR NO.
I GET, I WOULD SAY ONE OR TWO PHONE CALLS A MONTH OF, IT'S MORE WHEN ARE YOU BRINGING SEWER, YOU KNOW, THE KLEIN ROAD AREA.
I'D SAY THOSE RESIDENTS UP THERE ARE CHOMPING AT THE BIT.
UM, I DON'T GET THAT SO MUCH AS WATER.
I DO WITH SOME OF THE HOUSES NOW.
A LOT OF THE PHONE CALLS I GET ARE, HEY, I'M GONNA BUY THIS LOT.
[00:55:01]
GET PUBLIC WATER AND SEWER THERE? AND I DON'T ALWAYS KNOW IF THERE'S WATER THERE.'CAUSE HONESTLY, WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE PIPES MAPPED BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET THAT FROM THE WATER COMPANY, WHICH IS JUST RIDICULOUS.
BUT, UM, SO I CAN'T ALWAYS TELL 'EM.
AND, AND THEY ALWAYS, LIKE, THEY ALWAYS ASK WHO TO CALL AND THE NUMBER ON YOUR BILL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S, THAT'S THE BEST I CAN GIVE THEM.
UM, SO I, AGAIN, WE DON'T, WE DON'T GET THAT AS MUCH.
IT'S, IT'S MORE, IT, IT'S SEWER.
JEFF, JUST OUTSIDE THE BOX, HOW DID THE FEMA ACQUISITIONS FLOW TO ALL THIS? UH, RIGHT NOW IT'S EXISTING LAND USE.
SO I TOOK A PICTURE, QUOTE UNQUOTE BACK IN 2020 WHEN I FIRST DID THE MAP.
AND THEN A COUPLE WEEKS AGO I WENT AND REFOCUSED THAT PICTURE AND CAUGHT UP TO EVERYTHING THAT I KNOW HAD BEEN DEVELOPED.
I'M NOT DOING A DRIVE BY ON EVERY PROPERTY.
I MEAN, I'VE DONE A DRIVE BY IN NORRISTOWN FOR AN EXISTING LAND USE PLAN FROM 20 YEARS AGO, AND THAT WAS PROBABLY THE MOST MADDENING THREE WEEKS I EVER HAD.
UM, AND I WON'T EVER DO THAT UNLESS I HAVE A REALLY INTERN I DON'T LIKE, UM, I WOULDN'T DO THAT TO ANYBODY.
UM, SO, BUT I KNOW PRETTY MUCH WHERE THINGS ARE AND WHAT THINGS HAVE DEVELOPED, WHAT THINGS HAVE BUILT.
UM, SO I'VE UPDATED IT WHEN IT COMES TO FEMA WHEN WE BUY THOSE PROPERTIES, I WILL CONVERT THEM TO OPEN SPACE ON, ON THE NEXT ITERATION OF THE MAP.
RIGHT NOW, JUST BY ALL TECHNICALITY, THERE'S STILL SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED HOUSES, EVEN IF SOMEONE'S NOT LIVING THERE, EVEN IF THEY'RE ABANDONED.
I, I DON'T, I DON'T GET THE, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT EVERYTHING, EVEN USE THAT ARE AVAILABLE BECAUSE THEY HAVE 60 PROPERTIES.
WELL, IT, IT TURNS OUT WE'RE RIGHT AROUND 40 I THINK IS IS THE NUMBER WE KNOW RIGHT NOW.
UM, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD REALLY MAKE A DENT IN THE EDS AVAILABLE OR MAKE REALLY CHANGE A PERCENTAGE.
MAYBE A 10TH OF A PERCENT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
QUESTIONS? UH, WE CAN TALK ABOUT OUR NEXT MEETING.THAT WOULD BE SEPTEMBER 20TH, I THINK.
WE'LL HAVE THE ANTHONY AND JEN SHOW AND, UM,
WE'LL SORT OF LEAVE OCTOBER 4TH OPEN AT THIS POINT.
THAT'S THE FIRST MEETING OF OCTOBER.
WE'LL SEE WHAT THEY, UM, IF ANY OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT COMES IN, IF ANY OTHER FINAL PLANS CLOSE OUT.
THOSE ARE SORT OF ONE OF THOSE THINGS LIKE, OKAY, WE'RE, WE'RE CLEANED UP.
LET'S GET THEM ON THE AGENDA AS SOON AS WE CAN.
UM, SO WE'LL WAIT AND SEE ON OCTOBER 4TH AND PROBABLY WON'T BE ABLE TO DO EXISTING LAND OR LAND USE PLAN STARTING THEN.
PROBABLY GONNA TAKE A LITTLE BIT, BUT HOPEFULLY THE MIDDLE OF OCTOBER.
STILL ROLLING INTO NOVEMBER FOR THAT.
AND THEN THE E A C'S MEETING AGAIN ON THE 20TH AT SIX O'CLOCK.
WE HAVE A TOM LINED UP A SPEAKER NOW THAT SPEAKER MIGHT HAVE SOME ISSUES DEPENDING ON THE TIME.
BUT WE HAVE ANOTHER SPEAKER FROM ANOTHER E A C LINED UP TO COME AND SPEAK TO US EITHER NOVEMBER I'M GONNA REACH OUT TO HER, SEE IF SHE CAN DO THIS MONTH.
AND IT'S REALLY JUST LETTING US, TRYING TO GET US ON THE SAME PAGE AND GET US UNDERSTANDING WHAT D C DOES AND WHAT WHAT'S OUT THERE.
SO IF YOU WANNA COME AND SIT IN ON THAT MEETING, GIL WOULD BE THERE.
SO OTHER THAN THAT, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE FOR YOU TONIGHT.
I LIKE THE, UH, WEBINAR THING THAT'S COMING UP.
I JUST SENT AROUND AND IF ANYBODY ELSE WANTS THIS, IT'S A, THERE'S A PENNSYLVANIA, A SUSTAINABILITY WEEK, THERE'S A WEBINAR THAT YOU CAN DIAL IN.
UM, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A COST TO IT EVEN.
I KIND OF WENT THROUGH A COUPLE LINKS.
UM, SO IF ANYBODY ELSE WANTS TO LINK TO IT AND WANTS TO WATCH WEBINARS WHILE THEY'RE WORKING, THEY'RE, THEY'RE WELCOME TO.
ALRIGHT, SO I HAVE NOTHING ELSE UNLESS YOU HAVE, UNLESS THE BOARD, THE BLANK COMMISSION HAVE SOMETHING ELSE.
ALL OF THE PLANS WERE SORT OF IN THE SAME POSITION, YOU KNOW.
UM, AMELIA STREET, LIKE I TOLD MR. MALICK, I'M SORRY, UM, THE, THE LOVER'S LANE SUBDIVISION, THAT ONE IS SORT OF ON HOLD UNTIL WE GET THE RESOLUTION FROM THE PLATT FROM THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
SAME THING WITH AMELIA STREET TOWNHOME.
THAT ACTUALLY ZONING HEARING BOARD WILL BE SEPTEMBER 11TH, SO IT'S ON MONDAY.
THEN YOU HAVE YY STATION, TOLL FOLEY FINAL PLANS, RESIDENTS OF PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
WE'RE JUST CLEANING THOSE PLANS UP.
LIKE WE WERE DOING WITH, WITH THIS ONE IROQUOIS DRIVE AND 2 46 HAFFNER ROAD.
I HAVEN'T HEARD A PEEP OUT OF SINCE WE HAVE THEM IN FRONT OF US, SO WE'LL WAIT AND SEE.
DOES THE BOARD OR OUR CONSULTANTS HAVE ANYTHING ADDITION ADDITIONAL? IF NOT, AND THERE'S NOTHING ELSE AND NO ACTION ITEMS AT THIS POINT.
UH, ANYONE CAN MAKE A MOTION THAT WE MOTION.
[01:00:01]
MOVE AND SECONDED THE MEETING'S CLOSED.