[00:00:03]
[CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL]
GOOD EVENING.I'M GONNA CALL TO ORDER THE AUGUST 16TH WEDNESDAY AUGUST 16TH MEETING OF THE UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND, UM, THANKS FOR EVERYONE FOR BEING HERE.
AGAIN, IT'S BEEN ANOTHER MONTH OR SO.
UM, SO WE'LL TAKE A ROLL CALL.
JEFF, THERE'S, I THINK I REMEMBER AJ SAID HE WASN'T COMING.
YEAH, NO, WE DON'T NEED A ROLL CALL.
UM, SO I'M LOOKING FOR ANY PO PUBLIC COMMENT ON NON AGENDA ITEMS.
[MOTION TO APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA]
ACTUALLY, YOU NEED TO DO AN AGENDA APPROVAL FIRST JULY.UM, SO SOMEBODY WANT TO APPROVE THAT? I'LL APPROVE THAT ALL WE GOT FIRST BY BOB.
OKAY, WE, WE'VE APPROVED THE AGENDA, JEFF.
NOW WE'LL TAKE THE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE NON-AG AGENDA ITEM.
ANYBODY? SO, SO WHY ARE WE HERE? UM,
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
AND THEN WE'LL MOVE THEN TO, UH, WHERE'S THE MINUTES THEY WERE ATTACHED? I KNOW, BUT I, OKAY.SO WE'LL DO THE, UH, MINUTES FROM UH, JULY 16TH, WHICH ARE ATTACHED.
UM, SO IT LOOKS LIKE THE DATE'S WRONG DEAL OF JULY, THEN 19TH, BUT THEN WE PUT THE 19TH ENVELOPE.
WHAT WAS THE ACTUAL DATE? THE ACTUAL DATE WAS MY TRUSTEE PAPER.
SO, UH, WE NEED TO FIX THAT ON THERE.
SO THE MINUTES THAT WE'RE APPROVING ARE FROM JULY 19TH, 2023.
AND WE ALREADY APPROVED EACH OTHER, SO WE CAN'T CHANGE, AH, TECHNICALITIES.
SO, UH, ANYBODY WANT TO, UH, TAKE A MINUTE, LOOK AT THE, UH, UH, MINUTES AND IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM JULY 19TH.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM JULY 19TH.
GILLEY'S MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES.
DO I SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT ALL.
A SO THE MINUTES FROM, UH, JULY 19TH FOR APPROVED.
AND SO TONIGHT ON THE AGENDA, REALLY THE ONLY THING ON OUR AGENDA, A BUSINESS TYPE, UH, AGENDA IS THE, UH, WHICH WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT LAST MEETING.
WE TALKED ABOUT OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WE WERE INTO THE DEMOGRAPHICS, A LOT OF THE, A LOT OF DEBT, WHICH WERE REALLY INTERESTING.
UM, AND I GUESS JEFF HAS MORE FOR US HERE TONIGHT 'CAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT IT RIGHT NOW ON BOARD BOARD.
SO, UH, WHAT LEADS THE DISCUSSION HERE? JEFF, DO YOU WANT PICK THAT? WELL, YEAH, I WILL.
UM, THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF AN EXTENSION OF THE DEMOGRAPHICS, YOU KNOW, LET ME MAKE THIS BIGGER FOR THE AUDIENCE AND EVERYONE ELSE.
UM, A HOUSING ELEMENT FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT THE, THE QUALITY OF THE HOUSING, THE AMOUNT OF HOUSING, AND THE FAIR SHARE OF THE HOUSING.
SO THOSE ARE THE THREE SORT OF ELEMENTS, BUT QUALITY OF HOUSING, UM, YOU KNOW, IS THE, IS THE, ARE THE HOUSES IN GOOD UPKEEP? IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE, YOU KNOW, FROM A TOWNSHIP STANDPOINT NEED TO LOOK AT IN TERMS OF REHABILITATION OR OLDER HOUSING STOCK THAT NEEDS WORK? UM, THE AMOUNT OF HOUSING WE'LL GET INTO JUST DO WE HAVE ENOUGH HOUSING FOR THE RESIDENTS IN THE TOWNSHIP NOW AND IN THE FUTURE? AND THEN FAIR SHARE IS THE, THE SHARE OF OUR HOUSING, IS IT DISTRIBUTED EQUALLY? AND, AND BY STATE LAW, EVERY MUNICIPALITY HAS TO PROVIDE FOR SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED, SINGLE FAMILY, ATTACHED MULTI-FAMILY AND MOBILE HOME HOUSING.
SO WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO PROVIDE THAT SOMEWHERE IN THE TOWNSHIP GETS A LITTLE MORE CHALLENGING AS YOU GET BUILT OUT AND YOU DON'T HAVE REALLY LAND TO DEVELOP.
BUT AGAIN, AS LONG AS THERE'S AREAS THAT ARE ZONED FOR IT, ONCE YOU'RE FULLY BUILT OUT, YOU, YOU CAN MAKE THE, THE CASE, WELL, IT CAN GO THERE.
THEY JUST HAVE TO TAKE DOWN THE EXISTING STRUCTURES, THINGS LIKE THAT FOR US, YOU KNOW, WE WILL GET INTO THE, THE LAND USE END OF IT, PROBABLY AT THE NEXT MEETING OR MAYBE THE MEETING AFTER THAT.
BUT THIS LOOKS AT HOW MUCH HOUSING WE HAVE AND HOW MUCH HOUSING WE NEED TO PROVIDE TO MEET POPULATION PROJECTIONS.
UM, BUT FIRST WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE AGE OF THE HOUSING AND THE, AND THE QUALITY OF THE HOUSING.
UM, YOU CAN SEE ON THIS CHART THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE HOUSES IN THE TOWNSHIP, AND THESE ARE JUST, THEY'RE ALL LUMPED TOGETHER.
IT'S SOME MULTI-FAMILY ATTACHED DETACHED, WERE BUILT BETWEEN 1990 AND, AND 2009, UM, YOU CAN SEE IT'S, IT'S AROUND 5,000, SOMEWHERE IN THERE.
[00:05:01]
HOUSES OF THE 10,000 TOTAL IN THE TOWNSHIP WE'RE BUILT IN THOSE 20 YEARS.IT MAKES SENSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE TOWNSHIP, THAT'S ABOUT THE TIME 4 22 WAS COMPLETED.
THAT'S THE ABOUT THE TIME, YOU KNOW, THE MORTGAGE RATES CAME DOWN, ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF.
EVERYTHING SORT OF FELL INTO PLACE AND, AND WE WERE THE PATH OF DEVELOPMENT.
I MEAN, THAT'S THE, THE BIG TERM ZONING IS ARE YOU IN THE PATH OF DEVELOPMENT? AND WHEN 4 22 WENT THROUGH, WE BECAME THE PATH OF DEVELOPMENT.
UM, HOW DOES IT COMPARE JEFF WITH OTHER TOWNSHIPS IN UP 4 22? DO YOU KNOW THAT? I I DON'T HAVE THAT.
I MEAN, IT'S SOMETHING I CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT, BUT, AND ANECDOTALLY, I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU COULD CHART, YOU COULD TAKE THIS CHART, MOVE 2019 90, BACK A STEP, AND THAT'S LOWER PROFITS.
YOU COULD MOVE THEM UP A STEP.
AND THAT'S LIMERICK AND, UM, POTS, THE POTSGROVE, RIGHT NOW, IF YOU LOOK AT IT, UPPER HANOVER AND THE HANOVERS, WHERE ALL OF THAT AREA IS, THEY'RE THE ONES RECEIVING ALL THE DEVELOPMENT.
SO YOU CAN, YOU CAN SEE THAT IT IS SLOWLY CHANNELED ITS WAY OUT THERE.
THEY THE TURN PLUG AS WELL AS 4 22.
RIGHT? SO, SO YOU, YOU KNOW, I CAN CERTAINLY PROVIDE THAT CHART FOR YOU, BUT I CAN GUARANTEE HOW IT LOOKS.
IT IS, AS YOU MOVE WESTWARD ON 4 22 FARTHER OUT, THAT'S WHERE THE, THE HOUSING IS GONNA BE LESS EXPENSIVE.
SO FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS CAN BUY, THEY TEND TO BUY FARTHER OUT BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE IT'S LESS EXPENSIVE.
AND THAT'S WHERE THE NEWER STOCK OF HOUSING IS.
THE MAIN POINT OF THIS IS REALLY TO LOOK AT THE QUALITY OF THE HOUSING AND, AND YOU KNOW, IF WE, IF WE WERE SITTING ON THREE OR 4,000 UNITS BUILT 19 40, 19 15 EARLIER, WE'D CERTAINLY HAVE TO LOOK AT IT FROM A TOWNSHIP.
HOW DO WE PROVIDE FOR REHABILITATION OF THAT HOUSING CARE OF THAT HOUSING AND ALL OF THAT THINGS BUILT BETWEEN 1990, 2000, 2009.
THAT'S NOT AS MUCH OF A CONCERN.
OBVIOUSLY THERE'S HOME MAINTENANCE THAT EVERYBODY HAS TO DO AND WE ALL HAVE TO BE WORRIED ABOUT.
UM, BUT IT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE NEWER THE HOUSING STOCK, THE LESS WE HAVE TO BE CONCERNED WITH THAT FROM A, A COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING STANDPOINT, I THINK IT'S GOOD TO BE AWARE OF IT.
IF THIS IS A 10 YEAR PLAN, BY THE TIME THIS RUNS OUT IN LET'S SAY 2035, YOU KNOW, THE STUFF BUILT IN 1990 WILL BE 40 YEARS OLD.
THAT WILL BE, THAT WILL BE A CONCERN AT THAT POINT.
THAT'S WHEN WE NEED TO START LOOKING AT WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO TO MAKE SURE OUR HOUSING STOCK STAYS OF QUALITY AND AND OF VALUE.
WHAT'S THE TIME SHIFT RULE OF THAT? IT, IT DEPENDS.
I MEAN, I'M NOT SAYING, AND WE'LL GET INTO THAT IN A SECOND.
A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH PROPERTY MAINTENANCE AND WHETHER OR NOT WE REQUIRE STRONG PROPERTY.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE OLDER COMMUNITIES, THE MAINLINE COMMUNITIES, SOME OF THE DELAWARE COUNTY COMMUNITIES, THINGS LIKE THAT, THEY HAVE A STRONG PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE.
THEY REQUIRE RENTAL REVIEW, RENTAL, UM, INSPECTIONS, SALES INSPECTIONS.
YOU KNOW, WHEN WHEN YOU GO TO SELL YOUR HOUSE, YOU HAVE TO GO TO SALES INSPECTIONS.
THAT'S HOW THEY ENSURE THAT THE HOUSING QUALITY STAYS WHERE IT SHOULD BE.
THEY'RE NOT GOING IN AND CHECKING TO MAKE SURE THE TWO BY FOURS AREN'T A LITTLE TERMITE EATEN.
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT DOING IT TO THAT LEVEL OF HOME INSPECTION THAT YOU MAY DO WHEN YOU BUY IT.
BUT THEY ARE DOING IT TO MAKE SURE THAT SOMEWHAT OF THE OUTWARD APPEARANCE AND SOME OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF IT IS STILL MAINTAINED.
NOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS NEXT MAP IN THE PINK, ARE THE PROPERTIES CONTROLLED BY HOAS? WHEN WE LOOK AT PROPERTY MAINTENANCE RIGHT NOW IN THIS TOWNSHIP, MOST OF THE HOAS CONTROL, PROPERTY MAINTENANCE, THE PICKER, NO HOAS.
AND THEN THE GREEN AND THE BLUE.
THE GREEN AND THE BLUE ARE H O A CONTROLLED PROPERTIES.
THEY'RE THE ONES THAT WE DON'T, AS A TOWNSHIP, NEED TO WORRY ABOUT FROM A PROPERTY MAINTENANCE STANDPOINT BECAUSE THE H O A TAKES THAT ROLE ON FOR US.
DO THEY TEND TO BE NEWER COMMUNITIES? THEY DO TEND TO BE NEWER COMMUNITIES OR, UM, TOWNHOUSE COMMUNITIES.
I MEAN, THAT'S WHERE BOB AND I LIVE.
WE LIVE IN A TOWNHOUSE COMMUNITY.
SO, YOU KNOW, THE TOWNHOUSE TAKES IT ON AND AS CONTROLLING AS THE H O A MAY BE WHERE WE LIVE, HE INSPECT THE HOUSES.
I KNOW HE INSPECTS THE HOUSES AND, BUT IT KEEPS THE QUALITY UP THERE.
THE ISSUE YOU RUN INTO, AND THE ISSUE WE RUN INTO A LOT IS THE TOWNSHIP IS IDENTIFYING WHO'S ON THAT H O A AND AND WHAT LEVEL THAT H O A ENFORCEMENT, THERE IS SOME HOAS, AND I'M NOT GONNA NAME NAMES, AREN'T VERY INVOLVED AND DO NOT TAKE CARE OF A LOT OF THE PROPERTY AND DO, THEY'RE VERY HANDS OFF.
AND YOU KNOW, OVER TIME THEY'VE JUST SAID, NO, WE'RE NOT DOING IT.
WE'RE NOT GONNA BE DOING THOSE THINGS.
AND AGAIN, WHAT'S THE RULE THEN OF THE TOWNSHIP TO THOSE HOAS IF THEY'RE NOT DOING AGAIN RIGHT NOW? NOTHING.
WE HAVE A VERY MINIMAL PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE THAT REALLY BOILS DOWN TO MAKING SURE THAT IT'S NOT A JUNKYARD.
[00:10:01]
THAT ANY CARS IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE OR IN THE HOUSE THAT PARKED AROUND THE HOUSE ARE REGISTERED AND ACTUALLY FUNCTIONING.UM, THERE'S SOME GRASS ORDINANCE IN TERMS OF YOUR GRASS CAN ONLY BE A CERTAIN HEIGHT.
WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT INTERNALLY BECAUSE THE, THE LANGUAGE THERE IS A LITTLE HARSH.
I MEAN, IT'S, IT IS PROBABLY MORE HARSH THAN NEEDS TO BE IN.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT DURING THE E A C, YOU KNOW, DO WE NEED TO HAVE EVERYBODY WITH A YARD THAT'S THREE INCHES LONG? I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY WHAT WE WANT, BUT SO WE NEED TO, WE'RE REVIEWING THAT INTERNALLY TO SEE IF, IF THOSE SORT OF RULES AND THOSE SORT OF PROPERTY MAINTENANCE ARE WHERE WE WANNA BE.
SOME PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CAN GET INTO VERY STRICT, VERY SPECIFIC THINGS.
IF, IF THE TOWNSHIP DOCKS SOME SORT OF MAINTENANCE YARD, WHATEVER YOUR HOUSE MAINTENANCE RULES, CAN THEY SUPERSEDE THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION? YES, THEY CAN.
NOW, MOST OF THE TIME WE DEFER TO THE, THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO BUILDING DESIGN AND, AND, UM, COLOR SCHEMES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
WE DON'T GET INTO THAT KIND OF DETAIL.
YOU KNOW, A LOT OF HOAS WILL, A LOT OF HOAS WILL GET DOWN TO FINE MINUTE DETAILS, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO LIVING THERE.
I DON'T THINK I WOULD EVER SUGGEST AN ATTACHMENT THAT WE NEED TO GET TO THAT KIND OF FINE LINE DETAIL.
YOU'RE TALKING MORE ABOUT PROPERTY MAINTENANCE, RIGHT? YES.
I MEAN, THAT'S NOT, I'M NOT GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE I'M GONNA BE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE DO THAT.
SHOULD WE, WE, WE, SHOULD WE BE AWARE OF IT? ABSOLUTELY.
THE, THE QUESTION THAT'S ALWAYS, AT LEAST FROM A STAFF LEVEL HAS ALWAYS COME UP LIKE, OH, WELL WE HAVE SO MANY HOAS THAT WE DON'T NEED A PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE.
WE DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THOSE THINGS.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS MAP, WE HAD NEVER MAPPED IT BEFORE.
A LOT OF THE PROPERTY IN THIS TOWNSHIP DOES NOT, DOES NOT HAVE A PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE.
NOW, I COULDN'T GET THE CHART TO COME IN HERE.
UM, BUT IT REALLY WORKS OUT TO BE OF THE YEAH, IT WOULDN'T COME INTO THIS, THIS COPY.
THERE'S A, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS OF PARCELS, IT'S ABOUT 40% ARE NOT CONTROLLED BY AN H O A AT ALL.
AND THEN 23% ARE CONTROLLED BY AN H O A, THEY'RE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED.
AND THE NUMBER THAT SORT OF HELPS OUT AND SORT OF BRINGS IT UP TO ABOUT 50%, ABOUT 50% OF THE TOTAL PROPERTIES ARE CONTROLLED BY HOAS.
BUT THOSE ARE, UM, THOSE ARE TOWNHOUSE COMMUNITIES, MULTI-FAMILY COMMUNITIES, AND THOSE ARE ONES THAT ARE DIFFERENT.
AND, AND TOWNHOUSE COMMUNITIES HAVE TO BE APPROACHED A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE YOU'RE SHARING WALLS, YOU'RE SHARING, YOU KNOW, SIDEWALKS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
MORE SO THAN YOU ARE IN A SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED COMMUNITY.
UM, DON'T YOU THINK THAT, UH, AM I ALLOWED TO CALL? SURE.
YOU GOTTA COME UP HERE AND GIMME YOUR NAME AND OH, YEAH, YEAH, SURE.
UM, SO, UH, MY NAME'S, UH, ERIC SCHWEIKER AND I LIVE AT, UH, ONE 12 GATES HEADWAY.
UM, AND I, I WAS JUST WONDERING IF, YOU KNOW, WOULDN'T THAT GET LIKE REALLY COMPLICATED IF WE HAD A, A MAINTENANCE PLAN FOR THE WHOLE COMMUNITY WHEN THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT HOU TYPES OF HOUSING, DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS, DIFFERENT YARDS, DIFFERENT TERRAIN.
AND THEN THAT'S THE CHALLENGE OF IT.
I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, I JUST SPOKE TO SOMEBODY WHO WAS HAVING, THEY HAVE A RENTAL PROPERTY IN COLLEGEVILLE.
IT WAS JUST A FRIEND AND IT WAS ANECDOTAL, THE CONVERSATION WE WERE HAVING.
AND HE RECEIVED HIS NOTICE OF INSPECTION AND IT WAS VERY VAGUE.
AND HE CALLED ME UP AND HE'S LIKE, WELL, HOW CAN THIS BE VAGUE? THEY'RE LIKE, I NEED SMOKE DETECTORS.
I NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT I HAVE A FIRE EXTINGUISHER.
AND, AND I SUPPOSE THEY NEED TO TELL YOU HOW MANY THEY NEED TO TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, THEY NEED TO BE WORKING.
THEY NEED TO, YOU KNOW, THEY, THIS FIRE EXTINGUISHER SEEMS TO BE OF THIS AGE, WHAT CONSTITUTES A CRACK ON A SIDEWALK, YOU KNOW, HOW BIG OF A CRACK GETS REPLACED, HOW BIG OF A CRACK GETS FILLED? YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO WORK OUT.
AND YES, THEY GET EXTREMELY COMPLICATED AGREE WITH THAT, JEFF, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE PORNOGRAPHY, RIGHT? I CAN'T DEFINE PORNOGRAPHY, BUT I KNOW IT WHEN I SEE IT.
I THINK IT'S THE SAME WITH, YOU KNOW, A YARD MAINTENANCE.
I CAN MAYBE NOT BE ABLE TO DEFINE IT, BUT I CERTAINLY CAN TELL WHEN A HOUSE IS NOT BEING MAINTAINED.
AND, AND YOU COULD CERTAINLY LOOK AT A PLACE AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THEY NEED TO CUT THE GRASS.
THEY NEED TO, YOU KNOW, FIX THE SIDEWALK.
THEY NEED TO, YOU COULD, YOU COULD PICK THAT BROKEN DOWN BOAT.
THAT, YEAH, YOU COULD KIND OF, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD TO DEFINE.
I AGREE WITH THE DEFINITION, BUT WE ALL KNOW WHAT IT IS WHEN WE SEE IT.
I THINK YOU JUST GOTTA BE CAREFUL YOU DON'T OVERDO IT.
THAT'S WHAT EVERYTHING THEN THAT CAN GET.
YEAH, THAT'S, AGAIN, I THINK IT, I THINK IT'S BASED ON WE'RE ALL REASONABLE PEOPLE.
WE ALL KNOW WHEN WE SEE SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
IF THE SIDEWALK'S BROKEN UP AND THERE'S CRACKS AND IT'S, WE ALL KNOW THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE.
SO I THINK THAT WE ARE SMART ENOUGH TO DEFINE IT IN THE TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT IT IS WHEN
[00:15:01]
YOU SEE IT A LOW LEVEL BASELINE OF A, OF A MAINTENANCE PLAN.THAT'S THE BIGGEST DRAW WITH THE HOA.
THERE'S THIS H HOA AND THEN THERE'S SOME, SO WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO COOKIE CUTTER, IT'S JUST, IT COULD GET SO DEFINED AS TO COLORS AND WELL, AND, AND WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT COLORS AND, AND SHUTTER STYLES AND STUFF LIKE THAT, WHERE BOB AND I LIVE, WE HAVE THOSE RULES, BUT WE KNOW THAT GOING IN AND, BUT YOU'RE REALLY OUR COMMUNITY.
SO, AND, AND YEAH, WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A SPECIFIC LOOK FOR OUR COMMUNITY, A SPECIFIC DESIGN FOR OUR COMMUNITY THAT YOU ARE REAL SNOTTY PEOPLE.
WE ARE ABSOLUTELY SNOTTY THERE.
UM, SO, BUT ON THE OTHER END OF THAT SPECTRUM ARE THE PEOPLE THAT JUST HAVE VIRTUE MINOR AND SOME OF THE MAJOR THINGS WE TALK ABOUT STORMWATER CONTROL AND ALL.
WE'RE SUPPOSED TO MAINTAIN IT.
WELL, AND, AND A LOT OF IT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU GET TO VERY SPECIFIC AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK IN THIS TOWNSHIP, REBO PROBABLY RISES TO THE CLOSEST LEVEL OF A, WHAT WE CALL A HARP, A HISTORIC ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD.
THAT THERE'S A SPECIFIC POLICY FOR THAT.
THERE'S A SPECIFIC LAW FOR THAT OF HOW THAT IS ESTABLISHED.
IT DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY HAVE TO BE A HISTORIC PROPERTY, BUT YOU CAN PUT TOGETHER A HAR IN SEEING THE H O A RULES IN THE TOWNSHIP AND KNOWING, HAVING SOME FAMILIAR WITH HARPS RETA COMES REAL DARN CLOSE TO IT IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY REQUIRE.
AGAIN, I LIVE THERE, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
IT'S A LITTLE FRUSTRATING AT TIMES, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU'RE BUYING INTO OTHER PEOPLE THAT, THAT LIVE ON LEWIS ROAD, LET'S SAY, LET'S JUST PICK A ROAD.
THEY HAVE A INDIVIDUAL HOUSE THERE.
THEY DON'T, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THEY PROBABLY LIVE THERE, IS THEY DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THAT SPECIFICS.
AND IF WE WERE TO EVER GET TO THIS POINT OF MAKING A PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THAT LINE IS AND WHAT YOU THINK AS A PLANNING COMMISSION.
THAT LINE IS WHAT THE BOARD THINKS THAT LINE IS AND, AND WHERE WE GO FORWARD WITH IT.
WHAT'S THE PLAN TODAY? IF I HAVE A HOUSE, NO, O I HAVE A HOUSE AND I DON'T MAINTAIN THE YARD, I DON'T CARE.
YOU KNOW, I'M TRYING TO GROW A MEADOW, GO F**K MY YARD.
UM, WHAT, UH, WHAT IS THE, WHAT IS THE, WHAT IS THE TOWNSHIP, WHAT DO THEY DO WITH THAT AT THE BOARD'S DIRECTION? AND I'M NOT SPECIFICALLY SAYING THIS BOARD AT THIS TIME, BUT PREVIOUS BOARDS HAVE SAID, WE DON'T WANT STAFF OUT THERE ACTIVELY SEEKING TO WRITE VIOLATIONS.
SO WE DON'T ACTIVELY, WE DON'T, I DON'T DRIVE AROUND AND LOOK FOR PEOPLE WITH ZONING VIOLATION, SAY THE NEIGHBORS REPORT.
ESSENTIALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS, IF THIS, IF IF WE GET A PHONE CALL SAYING ONE FIFTY FIVE MAIN STREET HAS HIGH GRASS, THEY HAVEN'T CUT IT IN THREE MONTHS, UM, IT'S GETTING BUGGY.
ME AND THE BUILDING INSPECTOR, OR MOST OF THE THEM, JUST THE BUILDING INSPECTOR.
WE'LL TRY TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THEM.
95% OF THE TIME IT TAKES CARE OF IT.
SOMETIMES IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S A RENTAL PROPERTY, THAT'S WHEN IT GETS TO BE A CHALLENGE.
YOU KNOW? 'CAUSE YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND THE OWNER.
THE OWNER LIVES DOWN IN CHESTERBROOK, LIVES DOWN IN, YOU KNOW, DEVON, WHEREVER.
CAN I SAY WE'VE YELLED AT PEOPLE ON THE PHONE A COUPLE TIMES? SURE.
WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, TAKE CARE OF YOUR PROPERTY.
WE WANT EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, WE WANT EVERYBODY PROPERTY LOOK NICE.
WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TEETH TO ENFORCE THINGS.
WE DON'T HAVE A FINE STRUCTURE.
SO THAT IF WE DID HAVE TO GO OUT AND START THE PROCESS TO DO A LEGAL PROCESS, LIKE I WOULD, LIKE I HAVE FOR A ZONING VIOLATION.
IF I FIND SOMEBODY WHO'S GOT AN ILLEGAL, YOU KNOW, DWELLING IT ON THEIR PROPERTY, I HAVE A STRUCTURE THAT I CAN GO THROUGH AND I CAN START FINDING THEM.
I CAN'T DO IT IF THEY HAVE HIGH GRASS THE WAY OUR ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN.
AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT FROM A TOWNSHIP STANDPOINT IF WE WANTED TO GET INTO THAT OR HOW WE WANT TO APPROACH THAT.
UM, THE POINT FOR THE HOME, FOR THE HOUSING PLAN WAS REALLY TO SAY OUR HOUSING STOCK IS PRETTY MAXED OUT RIGHT NOW.
WE'RE NOT GONNA SEE 9 15, 9 89 OF SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED AND A SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED.
AGAIN, THOSE NUMBERS ARE GONNA BE HIGHER BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT OF MULTI-FAMILY HIT FOR 2020 LATER.
SO WHEN WE DO THE NEXT PLAN, WE'RE GONNA SEPARATE THAT OUT SO THAT WE CAN SEE THIS IS MULTI-FAMILY VERSUS SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED OR DETACHED.
BUT WE'RE NEVER GONNA SEE THESE NUMBERS AGAIN.
SO THIS IS JUST GONNA GET OLD.
SO WHO THE, THE QUESTION IS, AND I'M NOT SAYING WE HAVE TO PROVIDE THE ANSWER, I'M NOT SAYING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WILL PROVIDE THE ANSWER IS HOW DO WE TAKE CARE OF THAT PROPERTY? HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT THAT PROPERTY IS MAINTAINED AND HABITABLE FOR NOW AND IN THE FUTURE? AND WHAT DO WE, YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN WE DO AND WHAT SHOULD WE DO? AND, AND THAT'S JUST A QUESTION.
[00:20:01]
MAYBE AT THE END OF THIS, WHEN WE COME TO SORT OF THE CONCLUSION, WE START MAKING SOME RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE BOARD.MAYBE THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS TO PUT IN THERE.
RIGHT NOW, I DO SAY GIVEN THE AGE OF THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE, WHICH IS AGAIN, VERY MINIMAL AS I DESCRIBED IN THAT FIRST PARAGRAPH THERE, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, THE TOWNSHIP MAY CONSIDER MODERNIZING THE EXISTING MAINTENANCE CODE TO A BETTER REFLECT THOSE ISSUES THAT AFFECT THE PROPERTIES AND PARCELS THEY'RE CURRENTLY AS THEY ARE CURRENTLY.
SO THAT'S A VERY GENERIC STATEMENT, JUST SAYING, HEY, WE SHOULD CONSIDER IT SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
CAN YOU SEND THAT TO US? OH, YEAH.
THIS IS, YOU HAVE IT HERE, BUT I'LL SEND YOU THE WHOLE DOCUMENT.
UM, SO AGAIN, THIS IS JUST, WE CAN MAKE THAT STRONGER.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST SORT OF, I WANTED TO PUT SOMETHING OUT THERE TO SORT OF SEE WHERE THE BOARD WAS WHEN PLANNING COMMISSION WAS AT THIS POINT.
NOTHING WE NEED TO DECIDE TODAY.
BUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD BE AGAINST A, TO YOUR POINT, A GENERAL, WHATEVER THAT IS, UH, A LEVEL THAT, THAT PEOPLE SHOULD MAINTAIN THEIR PROPERTY.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S AGAINST THAT.
UH, THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THAT LEVEL? RIGHT? WE HAVE, WE HAVE ONE RESIDENT WHO, UH, GOING ON TWO OR THREE YEARS NOW, SHE BELIEVES THAT HER YARD IS MORE OF A MEADOW.
I MEAN, TALKING WITH BILL, IT, IT, IT, IT REALLY ISN'T.
I COULD SEE THE NEIGHBORS BEING UPSET ABOUT THAT.
WE'VE COME TO A PLACE TO WHERE WE THINK IT CAN WORK FOR EVERYBODY.
AND IT'S CERTAINLY NOT SET DOWN IN POLICY ANYWHERE.
IT'S, BUT IT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD LOOK AT AND MAYBE MAKE AN ACTION ITEM FOR THIS PLANK MISSION BILL, BILL FELT STATE ROAD, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING, SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE AESTHETICS, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
AGAIN, A LOT PROBABLY DO, DO THAT.
UM, I THINK COLLEGEVILLE HAS JUST STARTED SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, YOU'LL SEE A LOT OF OLDER COMMUNITIES THAT DON'T HAVE A LOT OF BRAND NEW HOUSING STOCK THAT HAVE, UM, INSPECTIONS WHEN YOU SELL.
SO YOU CAN'T SELL, THE SALE CAN'T GO THROUGH UNTIL YOU HAVE A SIGN OFF FROM THE TOWNSHIP.
AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOUSING STOCK THAT'S GOING TO GET OLDER OVER THE YEARS.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THE, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GONNA DO ANYTHING, THAT MIGHT BE THE PLACE TO, RIGHT.
AND, AND, AND RENTAL INSPECTIONS, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT MORE RENTAL PROPERTY IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
NOT JUST THE, THE HOUSE, NOT JUST THE APARTMENTS THAT ARE COMING IN, HOUSES FOR RENT, THINGS LIKE THAT.
DO WE WANT TO DO A, DO A RENTAL PROPERTY INSPECTION? I MEAN, PHOENIXVILLE DOES BOTH OF THOSE, RIGHT? SO, SO GEORGE, GEORGE GEORGE STARTED, WELL, THEY'VE BEEN DOING RENTAL.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT SELLING, BUT THE RENTAL INSPECTIONS, THEY'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR A WHILE BECAUSE I'M, I'M, I HAVE A COUPLE PROPERTIES I DO TOO.
THEY JUST STARTED, WELL, THEY, WELL THEY FILED YOU OUT.
I'VE BEEN, I'VE BEEN PROBABLY FIVE YEARS AT LEAST.
AND, AND YOU ALSO HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE ONE BUILDING INSPECTOR, AND THIS ADDS TO A TOWNSHIP BUDGET.
I'M NOT SAYING IT ADDS MILLIONS TO A TOWNSHIP BUDGET, BUT IT'S PART OF THE CONSIDERATION THAT THERE'S AN EXPENSE THAT COMES ALONG WITH THIS.
I'VE TALKED TO SOME PEOPLE THAT SAY, OH, YOU CAN MAKE THAT MONEY BACK IN, IN FINES AND PAYMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND I, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT'S POSSIBLE.
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE FINDING PEOPLE JUST TO PAY THE BILLS.
BUT AGAIN, I'VE NEVER BEEN INVOLVED THAT DEEP IN THIS PROCESS.
IF WE DECIDE TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, AND THE SUPERVISORS SAY, HEY, WE WANT TO LOOK AT THIS, WE WANT THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO GIVE US SOMETHING, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'LL GET INTO IT.
SO, UH, THE NEXT PORTION AGAIN DIVES INTO TO DEMOGRAPHICS A LOT.
UM, WHAT DELAWARE VALLEY REGIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION, WHAT THEIR ROLE IS, THEY'RE CLEARING HOUSE PER DATA AND THEY PROJECT WHAT THE MUNICIPAL POPULATIONS ARE.
THEY ALSO DO A LOT OF TRAFFIC.
BUT WHAT I USE THEM FOR IS A LOT OF POPULATION PROJECTION.
AND YOU CAN SEE HERE THAT WHAT THEY'VE PROJECTED US TO BUILD OUT AS TO 2050 IS 28,327 PEOPLE.
NOW, THAT'S A PRETTY BIG SLOWDOWN FROM WHERE WE'VE BEEN.
I, I CAN PULL UP THE DEMOGRAPHICS, BUT IN THE PAST TWO DECADES WE'VE GROWN DOUBLE DIGITS.
WE'VE BEEN 13, WE GREW 50% ONE YEAR
[00:25:01]
OR ONE BETWEEN ONE CENSUS.WE GREW 37% BETWEEN THE NEXT CENSUS AND THEN 13% IN THE LAST CENSUS.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE STILL SAYING WE'RE GONNA HAVE A 10% GROWTH BETWEEN NOW AND BETWEEN 2020 AND 2030.
UH, TWO, UH, TWO, 2.7% GROWTH BETWEEN 2030 AND 2040.
AND THEN 115, OR I'M SORRY, 1.15% GROWTH BETWEEN 2050.
SO YOU'RE BASICALLY STAYING THE SAME.
'CAUSE BETWEEN 2040 AND 2050, YOU'RE TALKING LESS THAN A THOUSAND PEOPLE MOVING INTO THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT YOU NEED TO, TO ACCOMMODATE.
UM, IT'S SOMETHING YOU NEED TO BE AWARE OF.
I'LL SAY NOW THAT JUST BECAUSE THEY SAY WE'RE GONNA BE A 29 DOES NOT MEAN WE HAVE TO BE A 29, DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO PROVIDE HOUSING FOR ALL PEOPLE.
BUT THESE ARE THE ONLY POPULATION PROJECTIONS THAT WE GET.
AND WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE PRETTY GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO.
THEY PRETTY MUCH NAILED THE LAST THREE IN TERMS OF 19 90 20 OR 2000, 2010, AND 2020.
THEY'VE BEEN OFF BY LESS THAN PROBABLY A THOUSAND FOR EACH OF THOSE.
IF YOU CAN GO BACK AND FIND THE OLD PROJECTIONS.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO PROVIDE ALL THAT HOUSING, BUT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S POSSIBLE.
UM, AND THIS IS JUST AN INTERESTING SORT OF FACTS RELATED, THE PERSONS PER HOUSEHOLD NATIONALLY HAS BEEN GENERALLY BEEN GOING DOWN AND IT'S HAPPENING IN UPPER PROVINCE TOO.
YOU CAN SEE THAT PERSONS PER HOUSEHOLD IS THE CENSUS PROVIDES TWO NUMBERS.
THEY PROVIDE, UM, A PERSON PER HOUSEHOLD AND A AND A PERSON PER FAMILY.
WE LOOK AT PERSONS PER HOUSEHOLD BECAUSE PERSONS PER FAMILY DOESN'T ALWAYS ACCOUNT FOR EVERYBODY IN THE HOUSE.
SO LET'S, I'M GONNA PICK ON YOU A LITTLE BIT, TOM, YOUR LIVING ARRANGEMENT, IF I UNDERSTAND IT, YOUR DAUGHTER STILL LIVES THERE.
YOU HAVE A GRANDDAUGHTER THAT LIVES THERE.
SO THAT WOULD PICK UP A PERSON PER HOUSEHOLD IS DIFFERENT.
AND THIS IS ALSO, IF IT IS NOT NECESSARILY RELATED, IF IT'S TWO PEOPLE THAT OWN A HOUSE THAT AREN'T RELATED, THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, AND THIS IS JUST I TO NOTE THAT, THAT THAT NUMBER'S BEEN GOING DOWN A LITTLE BIT.
UM, WHAT THIS MEANS IN TERMS OF THE HOUSING NEED IS WHEN YOU TAKE THE POPULATION PROJECTION, MULTIPLY IT OUT BY THE PERSON OR DIVIDE IT OUT BY THE PERSON PER HOUSEHOLD, IT TELLS YOU HOW MANY TOTAL HOUSING UNITS YOU NEED.
SO IN 2050, WE NEED 13,084 HOUSES TO ACCOMMODATE THE POPULATION THAT D V R P C SAYS WE'RE GONNA HAVE.
RIGHT NOW WE HAVE 10,103 DWELLING UNITS BETWEEN SINGLE FAMILY, ATTACHED MULTI-FAMILY.
I'LL THROW MOBILE HOME IN THERE, EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE A SINGLE MOBILE HOME IN THE TOWNSHIP.
AND I'M AWARE OF, UM, AND PROBABLY REASON I'M NOT AWARE OF IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT ME TO KNOW OF IT.
SO BETWEEN NOW AND 2050, WE NEED TO FIND SOMEWHERE TO PUT 3000, ABOUT 3000 NEW HOUSES.
UM, THAT, THAT'S NOT JUST SINGLE.
IT COULD BE, WE'LL, WE WILL GET TO THAT IN A SECOND.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE'VE DONE, ACCORDING TO THE 10, THE THE 2000 OR THE 2020 CENSUS IS WE HAVE 55% SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED, 31% SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED, 13% MULTIFAMILY FAMILY, AND 0% MOBILE HOME.
AND I'M NOT SURE WHO LIVES IN THE VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER, BUT THEY DON'T LIVE HERE.
SO, UM, AGAIN, UH, THE NUMBERS SEEM TO BE OFF HERE, TEN ONE OH THREE VERSUS TEN ONE OH NINE.
SOMETIMES THAT HAPPENS WITH THE CENSUS.
I'LL GO BACK AND CLEAN THAT UP.
UM, BUT TAKING THOSE NUMBERS AND USING THAT PERCENTAGE, IT SHOWS YOU THAT THESE ARE THE HOUSING UNITS WE NEED.
NOW THE 2050 NUMBERS TOTAL, SO THAT'S TAKING THE 55 70 THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE.
ADDING ANOTHER 300 FOR 2030, ADDING ANOTHER 800 FOR 2040 BETWEEN 2030 AND 2040 AND THE 2050, YOU NEED A TOTAL OF 72 13.
SO JUST TO UNDERSTAND THE KIND OF HOUSING THAT WE SHOULD HAVE COMING UP, WELL, I'LL SHOW YOU HOW THAT BREAKS DOWN INTO SO UNITS.
UM, BUT FIRST, STEPPING BACK A LITTLE BIT, THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE SORT OF QUEUED UP RIGHT NOW.
JUST SO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS NUMBER, THE 2020 CENSUS DOESN'T INCLUDE ANYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED FROM 19 OR FROM 20 20, 20 19 ON.
SO LOOKING AT PROJECTED UNITS, WHICH IS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT AND PROCESS, THE CO'S ISSUE BETWEEN 2020 AND 2022 AND THE UNDEVELOPED PROPERTY OF TOWNSHIP, WE CAN HAVE A TOTAL UNITS OF EIGHT RIGHT NOW OF 1823
[00:30:01]
OF THE MULTIFAMILY, UH, TOTAL UNITS.THAT'S HOW MANY UNIT NEW UNITS WERE PROVIDED IN THE NEXT BETWEEN 2020 AND 20 22, 20 23.
WHAT THIS DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR, LET ME BACK UP.
YEAH, I UNDERSTATE THAT THIS IS WHAT IS SORT OF IN PROCESS, IN PROCESS, IN PROCESS WITH LAND DEVELOPMENTS THAT WE WOULD NORMALLY BE TALKING ABOUT AT THIS MEETING THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED, THAT ARE IN PROCESS.
THEY HAVEN'T BEEN FULLY APPROVED YET.
THEY'VE LIKE HIT TENTATIVE, SO THE NUMBER COUNT MIGHT CHANGE.
WHAT THIS DOESN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT IS PARKHOUSE.
THAT'S A LARGE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.
I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT BEFORE.
THAT NUMBER'S HARD TO PICK AT THIS POINT BECAUSE THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT THE WHOLE PROCESS.
I'M GONNA HAVE A PARAGRAPH IN HERE EVENTUALLY TOWARDS THE END THAT SAYS, HEY, THESE ARE THE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS PARKHOUSE AND THIS IS WHAT, HOW THE TOWNSHIP IS APPROACHING IT FROM A LAND USE AND THE HOUSING STANDPOINT.
IT'S JUST GONNA BE A NUMBER THAT'S GONNA GET ADDED IN.
UM, AS YOU'LL SEE IN THE NEXT CHART, WE HAVE A DEF WE HAVE A, A VERY SMALL DEFICIT OF HOUSING THAT WE HAVE TO PROVIDE.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE NUMBERS AND WHAT WE'VE PROVIDED, UM, WHAT WE'RE CERTAINLY QUEUED UP.
WE HAVE A DEFICIT OF 38 HOMES BETWEEN NOW IN 2050.
JUST WHAT'S QUEUED UP AND JUST WHAT WE HAVE DEVELOPABLE THAT'S LEFT AS SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED.
IF YOU LOOK AT THIS UNDEVELOPED TIP HERE ON THIS TOP CHART, THE UNDEVELOPED PROPERTIES, 308 CAN RIGHT NOW BY MY ESTIMATION, CAN PROVIDE ABOUT 387 HOUSES, THE SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY PROPERTY THAT'S CURRENTLY PURELY SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED WHERE YOU CAN WALK IN.
EVERYTHING THAT'S MULTIFAMILY GOING IN IS WHERE THE MULTIFAMILY IS LEFT.
UM, WE DON'T, THERE'S OTHER PROPERTIES THAT COULD PROBABLY GO, BUT IT'S, WOULD TAKE AN ASSEMBLAGE, IT WOULD TAKE MUCH, IT WOULD TAKE A LOT MORE TECHNICAL END OF IT THAN THE COMP PLAN NEEDS TO CONSIDER.
I MEAN, I COULD GO THROUGH AND I COULD TRY TO MARRY A DOZEN DIFFERENT PARCELS AND SAY, WELL, THIS PERSON MOVES OUT, THIS PARCEL PERSON SELLS, THIS PERSON SELLS THROUGHOUT THE TOWNSHIP, AND IT, IT IS AN ENDLESS LOOP.
YOU'D NEVER, YOU'D NEVER BE ABLE TO COME TO A CONCLUSION.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PERSON, THE NEW PERSON'S COMING INTO THE TOWNSHIP, THE NEW UNITS NEED, WE HAVE A DEFICIT OF 38 HOUSES.
NOW, I, MY ANSWER TO THAT IS WE LOOK AT THE UNDEVELOPED PROPERTY AND THERE'S OPTIONS TO DEVELOP THAT IN A MORE DENSE WAY.
THERE'S OPTIONS TO DEVELOP TOWNHOUSES.
THERE'S, UM, OTHER PROPERTIES THAT MAY GO MULTIFAMILY, THINGS LIKE THAT.
I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE DEFICIT.
THE DEFICIT IS A, A MINOR ISSUE.
UM, I, I THINK WE ADEQUATELY MEET WHAT WE NEED TO MEET FROM A PROFESSIONAL STANDPOINT.
MY CONCLUSION IS WE MEET WHAT WE NEED TO MEET IN TERMS OF FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS AND CERTAINLY FOR THE NEXT 20 TO 25 YEARS.
JEFF, WHAT IF WE AS, AS, AS THAT PROPERTY BECOMES SCARCER, WHICH IT ALREADY IS, WHAT IF WE AS A BOARD OR, OR THE, UH, SUPERVISORS, WE DON'T WANT TO BUILD ANY, WE WANT TO, WE DON'T WANT TO BUILD ANYMORE ON THIS PROPERTY THAT'S LEFT.
WE, WE START MAKING IT, WE START MAKING IT MORE RESTRICTIVE IN TERMS OF HOW MANY HOUSES YOU CAN BUILD ON THIS PROPERTY.
SO WE PRESERVE MORE OPEN SPACE.
WELL, RIGHT NOW WHAT, YOU CAN'T MAKE IT, YOU CAN'T TAKE PROPERTY RIGHTS AWAY.
SO IF THERE'S A PROPERTY THAT'S R FOUR, THAT'S UNDEVELOPED, AND R FOUR IS THE OTHER IS THE BASIC APARTMENTS.
YOU HAVE OTHER PLACES YOU CAN BUILD APARTMENTS, BUT THAT'S OUR BASIC APARTMENT DISTRICT.
IF THERE WAS A PROPERTY THAT WAS ZONED R FOUR THAT YOU DIDN'T WANNA SEE GO APARTMENTS, YOU CAN'T TAKE THOSE PROPERTY RIGHTS AWAY WITHOUT CREATING A, TAKING.
WE HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT DIFFERENCE.
YOU KNOW, WE SAY WE CAN ONLY PUT 10 HOUSES THERE, NOT THE A HUNDRED APARTMENTS.
YOU WANT THE ECONOMIC VALUE OF THOSE 90 EXTRA UNITS.
SOMEONE'S GOTTA PAY FOR THEM AND GONNA BE THE TOWNSHIP BECAUSE WE'RE TAKING PROPERTY RIGHTS AWAY FROM PEOPLE.
BUT THAT BEING SAID, ALL OF THE PROPERTY THAT IS THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE PROPERTY THAT'S UNDEVELOPED IS R ONE IN THIS PROPERTY, IN THIS TOWNSHIP.
SO, AND THAT'S A BENEFIT TO THE TOWNSHIP BECAUSE THAT'S ONE ACRE PARCELS.
WE DON'T HAVE TO, WE, YOU REALLY COULDN'T LOGISTICALLY AND LEGALLY GO TO A LARGER PARCEL TO BEGIN WITH.
THERE'S A PROCESS THAT THE COURTS HAVE SET UP FOR FOUR ACRES ZONING, BUT YOU REALLY HAVE TO PROVE THAT YOU'RE AN AGRICULTURAL OR AN ENVIRONMENTALLY IMPACTED COMMUNITY.
AND, AND THOSE ARE THE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE
[00:35:01]
NEVER GONNA HAVE SEWER AND, AND THERE'S A LOT OF PROCESS TO GO TO FOUR ACRES ZONING.ESPECIALLY THIS CLOSE TO THE CITY.
AND I KNOW, I REALIZE WE'RE NOT THAT CLOSE TO THE CITY, BUT WE'RE TALKING CENTRAL PENNSYLVANIA, YOU KNOW.
HEY, JEFF AND TOM, JUST A THOUGHT ON ON THAT.
UM, IS THERE, IS THERE KIND OF LIKE A VISION FOR THE, LIKE THE COMMUNITY OVER THE LONG TERM IN TERMS OF WHAT WE WANT TO SEE IN TERMS OF HOUSING AND, UM, LIKE A GRANDER, LIKE SINGLE HOMES? SINGLE HOMES OR, OR ONE ACRE LOTS OR, OR, OR WE, THAT'S WHERE WE, THAT'S WHERE WE GET INTO THE LAND USE PLAN.
WHAT, WE'LL, WHAT WE'LL DO PROBABLY IN A COUPLE MONTHS WHEN WE'VE GOTTA GET THROUGH SOME TRAFFIC AND WE'VE GOTTA GET THROUGH, THROUGH SOME COMMUNITY FACILITIES AND MS FOUR AND SEWER TO SORT OF PUT THE WHOLE PUZZLE TOGETHER THAT, UM, IT WILL TALK ABOUT THE LAND USE PLAN.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT THOSE VACANT AREAS AND HOW THIS BOARD, HOW THE, THE BOARD OR THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WANNA SEE THEM DEVELOPED.
UM, I'M GONNA MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS IN TERMS OF JUST FROM A PROFESSIONAL STANDPOINT, HOW I SEE THINGS DEVELOPING.
IF THEY TELL ME, JEFF, YOU'RE OUTTA LEFT FIELD, WE DON'T WANNA SEE THAT, THEN I'M OUTTA LEFT FIELD.
I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT.
THAT'S WHAT THE LAND USE PLAN WILL DO.
IT'LL MAKE SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS FOR AREAS OF THE TOWNSHIP THAT I SEE CHANGING OVER THE NEXT 10 OR 15 YEARS.
LIKE LET'S, LET'S USE AN EXAMPLE OF RIDGE PIKE.
UM, THERE'S SOME RENTAL HOUSING, THERE'S SOME SMALL BUSINESSES.
IS THAT AN AREA THAT'S GONNA STAY THAT WAY OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS? PROBABLY NOT.
THE CHALLENGE WE'RE RUNNING INTO RIGHT NOW IS RETAIL'S DEAD OFFICE IS DEAD.
NO ONE WANTS TO BUILD NEW OFFICE.
NO ONE WANTS TO BUILD NEW RETAIL.
THAT'S OUR, YOU KNOW, UP ON RIDGE PI IS OUR, ONE OF OUR MAIN COMMERCIAL CORRIDORS.
BUT HAVING, I I I'M OF THE MIND HAVING A PROPERTY SIT THERE FROM 10 YEARS AND BE VACANT ISN'T THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD.
THIS TOWNSHIP PREVIOUSLY, PROBABLY FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS, IT'S SORT OF SAID, HEY, IF YOU WANNA DEVELOP IT, LET'S DEVELOP A THAT.
IF WE WANT TO, IF THIS BOARD WANTS TO PUT A POLICY TOGETHER AND THEN THE BOARD SUPERVISORS WANNA PUT A POLICY TOGETHER, LIKE WE DON'T NEED TO DEVELOP EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF PROPERTY.
AND, AND I'M NEWER TO THE COMMUNITY AND, AND I'VE LISTENED TO, OH, YOU KNOW, UM, I'VE BEEN TO SOME OF THESE MEETINGS AND IT DOES SEEM LIKE THERE IS A YEARNING FOR JUST LIKE OPEN SPACE.
WELL, ACTUALLY I WAS GONNA SAY THIS BOARD, I THINK IT, I'M NOT GONNA SPEAK FOR THE SUPERVISORS OBVIOUSLY, BUT FOR THIS BOARD I CAN, I'LL, I'LL GIVE A A, UM, WHAT I THINK OUR DIRECTION IS, IS TO LIMIT BUILDING AS MUCH AS WE CAN.
I THINK WE'RE ALL FEELING THAT.
WE HAVE A LOT OF BUILDING, YOU KNOW, NOT BUILDING, LIKE JEFF SAID, WE CAN'T STOP IT NECESSARILY.
BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO RIGHT.
TO, UH, BUILD WHAT THEY WANT OR AS MANY AS THEY WANT OR, OR HIDE IF THEY WANT OR STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO I THINK THIS BOARD AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, AND THIS I, LIKE I SAY I'M SUPERVISORS, BUT, BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE DEFINITELY IN THE MODE OF TRYING TO YEAH.
BECAUSE I MEAN, YOU'LL, YOU GUYS WILL BE DEFINING THE COMMUNITY THAT WE WANT TO BE.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO NOW.
THERE'S ALREADY BEEN A LOT OF WORK BY SYSTEM GROUPS DOING THE 10 YEAR COMPREHENSIVE OVER THE LAST YES.
I MEAN, BECAUSE OF COVID AND A BIT, I WILL TAKE ALL THE BLAME FOR THIS.
THE BALL GOT DROPPED, SCREWED UP.
I HAVE A QUESTION AND, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING THIS BEFOREHAND, BUT IT IS, YOU KNOW, AND THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN'T, THAT YOU CAN NEVER ANSWER IN A PROCESS LIKE THIS.
I'LL GO BACK TO OUR 2008 PLAN.
AND THEN THERE ARE, THERE ARE THINGS THAT ALWAYS COME UP.
WE HAD A 2008 PLAN THAT I THOUGHT WAS, WAS GREAT.
IT WAS WELL WRITTEN, IT IDENTIFIED AREAS OF DEVELOPMENT, AREAS OF GROWTH, IT IDENTIFIED AREAS OF PRESERVATION.
AND I, IT MUST HAVE BEEN THREE MONTHS AFTER WE ADOPTED IT, A DEVELOPER CAME TO US AND SAID, HEY LOOK, WE WANT TO PUT APARTMENTS OVER HERE.
LIKE, OH, I'LL GIVE THIS SPECIFIC EXAMPLE WHERE MADISON IS ON CAMPUS DRIVE.
THERE WAS, IT WAS A CORPORATE CENTER AND WE HAD IDENTIFIED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS IT'S GONNA STAY A CORPORATE CENTER.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT, WE DON'T NEED TO PUT ANYTHING THERE BESIDES THE CORPORATE CENTER THAT'S ALREADY THERE.
THE DEVELOPER CAME TO US AND SAID, WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PUT APARTMENTS THERE.
UM, WE DON'T SEE THE OFFICE DEVELOPING BRAND NEW OFFICE DEVELOPING OVER THE NEXT FIVE OR 10 YEARS.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION AT THE TIME WROTE OFF ON IT.
THE, THE BOARD WROTE OFF ON IT.
AND LOOKING BACK ON IT, YOU'RE LIKE, YEAH, APARTMENTS DO FIT IN THERE BECAUSE TO A LIMITED EXTENT NOW I'VE HAD A DOZEN PHONE CALLS ABOUT EVERY OTHER OPEN OFFICE BUILDING OVER THERE AND THEY WANNA CONVERT THEM ALL TO, TO APARTMENTS.
SO I DON'T WANNA GO ON THE RECORD SAYING THAT IT'S PERFECT OVER THERE.
WE DON'T WANNA MAKE THEM ALL APARTMENTS.
[00:40:01]
TO THE, TO THE EXTENT THAT MADISON'S DEVELOPED, I THINK THAT'S BEEN A NICE APARTMENT DEVELOPMENT THAT EXISTS WITH THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE AND DOESN'T IMPACT THE TOWNSHIP IN A, IN A, YOU KNOW, IT WORKS WELL IN THE TOWNSHIP.AND AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEVER, WE NEVER CONTEMPLATED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
SOMEONE CAME TO US SHORTLY AFTER IT WAS DONE AND SAID, OKAY, I HAVE AN IDEA.
SO IT HAS TO BE SORT OF A LIVING, BREATHING DOCUMENT AND UNDERSTAND HOW THOSE THINGS WORK.
BUT THAT'S SORT OF SMART DEVELOPMENT WHERE YOU HAVE THE WORKPLACE THERE.
YOU KNOW, WHY CREATE CAR TRIPS WHEN PEOPLE COULD POSSIBLY LIVE AT MADISON AND WALK TO WORK AND WALK TO SHOPPING ACROSS THE STREET? YES.
UM, AND THEN THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY PRESENTED WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT IT'S ALREADY THERE.
IT CAN, UM, YOU KNOW, IT CAN WORK WITHIN THAT AREA.
AND THAT WAS SOME OF THE THINKING WHEN PROVINCETOWN CENTER APARTMENTS WENT IN IS IT'S GONNA CONNECT TO THAT SHOPPING CENTER AND BUILD UP THAT SHOPPING CENTER.
I KNOW WE ALL HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT, HOW MUCH AND ALL, SO WE DON'T NEED TO GET INTO THAT NOW, BUT THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT, THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT.
ONE OF THE THINGS, UH, AT THE LAST MEETING FOR THE 10 COMPLIMENT PLAN, LOOKING AT BUILDINGS NOW THAT JUST AREN'T GOING TO BE USED LARGE PARCELS OF LAND WITH OFFICE BUILDINGS WHERE THERE IS NO, IT'S DECLINING INSTEAD OF MOVING UP.
HOW DOES THAT INFLUX END UP WORKING? OR, OR WHAT YOU SUGGEST YOU LET US SIT FOR 10 YEARS AND TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT.
THAT'S A, THAT'S A POLICY THAT THIS PLANNING COMMISSION NEEDS TO DETERMINE IF THEY WANT TO WEIGH IT ON.
AND YOU CAN, LIKE WHAT I SAY TO DEVELOPERS WHEN THEY BRING AN IDEA TO ME, I ALWAYS SAY, I'M NOT THE PERSON THAT'S GONNA VOTE.
I WILL BRING, YOU KNOW, I WILL LISTEN AND WE CAN WORK THROUGH WHATEVER YOU WANNA WORK THROUGH.
AND I WILL MAKE SURE THAT IT'S A, IT IS A HIGH QUALITY PLAN THAT BRINGS SOMETHING TO THIS TOWNSHIP THAT'S NOT JUST SLOP ON A PAGE.
AND THEN WE CAN BRING IT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND WE CAN BRING IT TO THE BOARD.
AND IF IT GETS THROUGH THERE, THAT'S GREAT.
I SAID THE PLAN, I ALWAYS SAY THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD ARE VERY OPEN-MINDED AND WILLING TO LISTEN TO IDEAS.
I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE GONNA SAY YES.
I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE GONNA SAY NO.
SO IF YOU WANT TO SET UP A POLICY NOW OF SOMETHING SPECIFIC OF WE WANT, YOU KNOW, EMPTY OFFICE BUILDINGS TO, TO BE USED, UH, TO GET CONVERTED AND WHATEVER, AND MAKE THAT AN ACTION ITEM, WE CAN MAKE IT AN ACTIVE ACTION ITEM THAT, AND TRUST ME, DEVELOPERS WILL SEE THIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THEY WILL COME IN AND SAY, I SEE YOUR COMP PLAN SAYS THIS.
WHERE CAN I DO THIS? SO THEY, THEY WILL JUMP ON WHATEVER THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SAYS.
AND IF WE, IF WE LEAVE IT VAGUE AND WE SAY NOTHING, THEY'LL COME IN AND THEY'LL, AGAIN, I WILL SAY, BRING YOUR IDEAS TO US AND LET US WEIGH IN ON THOSE IDEAS.
UM, THE ONE THING I WANNA POINT OUT ABOUT WHAT WE'VE DONE IN TERMS OF WHAT THE TOWNSHIP HAS DONE IN TERMS OF UNIT COUNT, WE'VE TRADED A LOT OF THE UNITS THAT WE NEED ACCORDING TO D V R P C.
AND I'LL SAY THAT IN QUOTES THAT WE NEED IN TERMS OF THE SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED AND THE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED.
THOSE UNITS ARE ALL BEING COUNTED AND BEING ACCOUNTED FOR BY MULTI-FAMILY UNITS RIGHT NOW.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY YOU LOOK IN, YOU CAN SAY, WHY DO WE HAVE A, WHY DO WE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHY ARE WE GONNA HAVE A THAT SMALL OF A DEFICIT? OR WHY ARE WE GONNA BE RIGHT AT THAT NUMBER WHERE WE, YOU KNOW, PROJECT OUT TO BE? IT'S BECAUSE WE'VE TRADED SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED AND DETACH FOR MULTIFAMILY.
I'M NOT PUTTING A VALUE JUDGMENT ON IT.
I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING IN TERMS OF HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT.
JUST UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S HOW THAT NUMBER BALANCED OUT AT THE END OF THE DAY.
WELL, I, I ASSUME THAT, YEAH, I MEAN I KIND OF ASSUME THAT, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I KNOW WHAT'S BEING WHAT, LIKE YOU SAID, WHAT'S IN DEVELOPMENT, RIGHT? WE KNOW WHAT'S OUT THERE IN DEVELOPMENT AND WE KNOW THAT THAT'S ALL MULTI-FAMILY OR YOU KNOW, APARTMENTS OR WHATEVER YOU WANNA CALL 'EM.
SO WE KNOW THAT THAT'S HAPPENING.
THERE'S NOT A LOT OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, OUR FRIENDS IN OVER THERE, OLD BROTHERSHIP,
BUT, UH, BUT YEAH, WE KNOW THAT MOST OF THE DEVELOPMENT WE'RE SEEING TODAY, OTHER THAN THE, YOU KNOW, TWO OR THREE HOUSES THAT SOMEBODY WANTS TO PUT ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY BUT ARE MULTIFAMILY.
SO I ASSUME THAT'S WHERE THESE, THIS, UH, THAT DEFICIT'S BEING COVERED BY.
AND, AND THAT'S HOW WE'VE, WE'VE KEPT UP TO THAT NUMBER AT THIS POINT.
SO YOU'RE ACCOUNTING FOR ADDING A LOT OF STUFF.
THIS MAY NOT BE PRO, BUT ARE YOU CONSIDERING LIKE UNITS THAT MAY GO AWAY? LIKE, I LIVE IN THE MEADOWS, WHICH IS THE ANTITHESIS OF WHERE YOU LIVE IN TERMS OF MANAGEMENT AND IT'S 40 YEARS OLD NOW AND NOT IN GREAT SHAPE.
WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF, AND BECAUSE OF WHERE WE'RE LOCATED NEXT TO GLOBAL AND ALL, I
[00:45:01]
INVITE YOU ALL TO DRIVE THROUGH AND SEE HOW THAT NEW ADDITION AFFECTS US.WE'RE NOT GETTING A LOT OF NEW HOMES FOR GETTING INVESTORS COMING IN.
YOU MEAN THEY'RE GOING, THEY'RE MOVING A LOT OF MOVING TO RENTALS.
PARDON? A LOT OF THE PROPERTIES ARE MOVING TO RENTAL PROPERTY.
AND WHEN THEY WELL, I, I'M ASKING, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YEAH.
WE ARE SEEING MORE INVESTORS BUYING.
WE'RE LOOKING TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT, BUT THEY DON'T GET AS INVOLVED.
YOU KNOW, SOME ARE GOOD, SOME ARE NOT.
BUT IT'S NOT, IT WAS NOT BUILT WITH THE GREATEST OF STANDARDS QUESTION IS 30 YEARS FROM NOW, THAT MAY BE SOMETHING YOU'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT HAVING TO REPLACE.
I DON'T SEE ANY ALLOWANCE FOR THAT.
IT WAS BUILT AS RENTALS ORIGINALLY.
BUT, UM, WHAT IT WAS BUILT AS RENTALS ORIGINALLY.
OH, I I WAS THERE WHEN HE RENTED.
UM, I HAVE A LONG HISTORY WITH THIS TOWNSHIP.
IT, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING, I MEAN, BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE DEVELOPABLE PROPERTY AND BECAUSE WE'RE SORT OF RUNNING RIGHT WHERE WE NEED TO BE IN TERMS OF UNIT COUNT, WE DON'T REALLY LOOK AT REDEVELOPMENT YET.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT I'M GOING TO WRITE SOMETHING ON WHEN WE GET TO THE LAND USE SECTION THAT WE SHOULD BE COGNIZANT OF, WE SHOULD BE AWARE OF.
ESPECIALLY WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PORT PROVIDENCE MONTCLAIR REDEVELOPMENT, WHAT REDEVELOPMENT MEANS DOWN THERE.
'CAUSE DOWN THERE REDEVELOPMENT MEANS RAISING ALL THE HOUSES.
AND AGAIN, THAT'S STILL RAISING A HOUSE ON A FLOODPLAIN.
THE FLOODPLAINS NOT GOING TO SHRINK
SO THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S ALWAYS A QUESTION.
AND, AND REDEVELOPMENT ISN'T A HARD, A BIG CONCERN IN THE STATUTE NOW, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF.
BUT IT'S SOMETHING JUST TO LIKE PUT ON THE RADAR BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S A LOT OF PEOPLE, A LOT OF UNITS IN THAT CASE THAT ARE COMING, THAT ARE CLOSE TOGETHER.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT DEVELOPMENT OVER THE NEXT 10, FIVE OR 10 YEARS, WE'RE SEEING IT NOW.
WE'RE NOT GONNA SEE MANY OF THE TOLL FOLEYS COME IN ANYMORE.
THAT'S REALLY GONNA BE SOME OF THE LAST ONES WE'RE GONNA SEE A LOT OF THE, WE'RE THE, UM, IROQUOIS DRIVE, THE THREE LOTS SUBDIVISIONS.
THE, THE THE 2 0 9 FOURTH AVENUES WHERE THERE'S TWO TOWNHOUSES, YOU KNOW, UM, MULTIFAMILY.
YOU CONTINUE TO SEE THAT, THAT THAT'S WHERE YOU, YOU'RE GONNA, AND YOU'RE GONNA SEE PROPERTIES THAT ARE HARDER TO DEVELOP THE LOVER'S LANES, THE AMELIA STREETS.
UM, I'M NOT PASSING JUDGMENT ON EITHER OF THOSE PROPERTIES, BUT
AND HOW DO WE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE BOARD SENT THE SOLICITOR TO THE, TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, WHICH I APPLAUD AND I THINK IS GREAT.
JOE MAY NOT THINK SO 'CAUSE HE PROBABLY DOESN'T WANT ONE MORE NIGHT MEETING, BUT HE, YOU KNOW, TO, TO DEFEND A, THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, IN MY OPINION, HAS GONE THROUGH A LOT OF RUBBER STAMPING AND, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I THINK THE ZONING HEARING BOARD HAS TRANSITIONED NOW TO WHERE THEY'RE GONNA TAKE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A DEEPER LOOK AT THINGS.
I I'M REALLY NOT INVOLVED WITH 'EM MUCH.
BUT A LOT OF IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE THROUGH THE ZONING HEARING BOARD BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO BE ASKING FOR VARIANCES.
NOW, THE EASY WAY IS TO CHANGE THE ZONING.
PLENTY OF DEVELOPERS WILL COME IN AND GO, HEY, CAN YOU JUST TWEAK THE ZONING AND FIX THIS LINE AND FIX THAT LINE SO I CAN DO THIS.
WE'RE, AT LEAST FROM MY STANDPOINT, THAT'S NOT MY PLAN.
IF THE BOARD TELLS ME SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THE PLANNING COMMISSION SAYS, HEY, WE WANT TO TWEAK THAT, WE'LL TWEAK THAT.
BUT THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO BE COGNIZANT OF AND AWARE OF FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS.
SO WHERE ARE WE AT JEFF, IN TERMS OF STARTING TO WRITE THIS DOCUMENT? WELL, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, I'M, THIS IS, THIS IS PAGE 25 AND I, IT'S REALLY ONLY FIVE PAGES BECAUSE I SEPARATE THE SECTION OUT.
I'M FILLING IN THE PIECES RIGHT NOW.
NEXT MONTH WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, UM, ANTHONY'S GONNA TALK ABOUT TRANSPORTATION.
ANTHONY'S GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT TRANSPORTATION ISSUES.
NOW WITH THAT, WE HAVE ACT 2 0 9, THE COMPLETE STREETS PLAN.
WE'VE WRITTEN A LOT OF LITTLE PLANS HERE AND THERE.
THERE'S SOME OTHER SORT OF TECHNICAL CHANGES THAT WE MIGHT BE MAKING.
UM, SOME MAINTENANCE ISSUES, SOME, YOU KNOW, WHAT ROADS PRIORITIZE OVER WHAT DEVELOPMENT OR WHAT CHANGES, PRIORITIZE OVER OTHER CHANGES THAT AREN'T IN THE 2 0 9 PLAN.
SO THAT'LL BE PART OF THE TRANSPORTATION PLAN.
JEN'S GONNA BE WRITING A SECTION ON MS FOUR STORM WATER CONTROLS AND SEWER.
A LOT OF THAT IS GOING TO BE RESUSCITATING AND RECITING THE D E P LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE GIVEN.
AND THE MS FOUR CONTROLS ARE REALLY CONTROLLED BY D E P AND MONTGOMERY COUNTY CONSERVATION DISTRICT.
AND IT'S JUST US, HOW WE APPLY THEM.
AND THEY SEEM TO BE LIKE TRYING TO RUN THE SAND.
IT'S CONSTANTLY MOVING AND YOU GET NOWHERE.
SO, YOU KNOW, GENERAL MAKES SOME SENSE OUTTA THAT FOR US.
UM, PARKS AND REC, WE DON'T REALLY NEED TO TALK ABOUT MUCH BECAUSE THEY HAVE A PARK AND REC PLAN.
UM, WE'LL SORT, WE, WE TALK ABOUT THAT.
I HAVE A SECTION I HAVEN'T SHOWN YOU YET THAT'S PLANNING DOCUMENTS OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS, AND IT GOES THROUGH A LOT OF THEM AND SORT OF TAKES OUT THE BIG CHUNKS AND SAYS, HERE'S WHAT THE FOCUS WAS.
UM, I'LL, I'LL GIVE THAT TO YOU AND THEN YOU CAN, YOU CAN READ IT.
UM, SO WE'RE PUTTING THE PIECES TOGETHER ONCE WE'VE HAD TO KIND OF GO THROUGH THIS, AND I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN NEXT MONTH.
[00:50:01]
TO READ THE HOUSING ELEMENT AND COME BACK AND SAY, ALL RIGHT, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS.AND THEN PUT THE LAND USE PLAN TOGETHER.
UH, AGAIN, AS I SAID, I'M GONNA MAKE SUGGESTIONS ABOUT WHERE I THINK CERTAIN DEVELOPMENT TYPES MIGHT NEED TO CHANGE.
CERTAIN ZONING, MIGHT NEED TO CHANGE.
UM, JUST TO, AGAIN, LET'S TALK ABOUT BRIDGE BIKE.
THE, THE, THE NC ZONING DOESN'T FOSTER ANY CHANGE OR ANY UPGRADE TO ANYTHING IN THAT AREA.
AND A LOT OF THOSE HOUSES ARE PRETTY RUN DOWN OR EMPTY OR, YOU KNOW, WHAT NEEDS TO, WHAT CAN WE DO TO SORT OF FOSTER CHANGE TO CLEAN THAT AREA UP? SAME THING WITH THE, YOU KNOW, UM, THE TARGET, LOWE'S, FEDEX AND THE EXPO CENTER.
IT, IT'S SUCCESSFUL, IT DOES VERY WELL, BUT IT'S A MISHMASH OF INDUSTRIAL RETAIL ENTERTAINMENT AND DISTRIBUTION.
RIGHT? WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE FOUR THINGS, THEY REALLY DON'T MESH THAT WELL BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT TRUCKS AND YOU'VE GOT WAREHOUSING AND YOU'VE GOT RETAIL AND, AND, AND ENTERTAINMENT USES.
SO HOW DO YOU BALANCE ALL OF THAT OUT? AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK I'M GOING TO TRY TO TACKLE AS PART OF THE LAND USE PLAN AND MAKE SOME SUGGESTIONS WITH THAT.
AND AGAIN, WE WILL TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH VACANT SPACE THERE IS LEFT IN THE TOWNSHIP.
AND, AND LIKE I SAID, MOST OF IT'S R ONE AND, AND IF WE WANT TO KEEP IT R ONE, IF WE WANT TO LOOK AT OTHER ZONING, IF WE WANT TO KEEP IT R ONE.
SORRY, TO CLARIFY, WHAT'S R ONE MEAN AGAIN? R ONE IS, IS OUR, IS OUR ZONING DISTRICT WITH THE LARGEST ACRE WITH THE LARGEST LOT SIZE REQUIREMENT.
NOW YOU HAVE OTHER OPTIONS WHERE YOU CAN HAVE SMALLER, BUT IT'S A TRADE OFF FOR OPEN SPACE.
UM, R TWO, IF YOU HAVE WATER AND SEWER, YOU CAN GO DOWN TO A 15,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT.
R THREE IS, I THINK YOU'RE DOWN TO A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOUSE.
BUT THEN YOU CAN HAVE TOWNHOUSES AND THEN R FOUR IS APARTMENTS.
AND SO THE, THE APARTMENT NEXT TO THE WAGONS, IS THAT IN OUR TOWN? THAT IS, YEAH.
AND SO THAT, THAT WAS AN R NO, THAT, SEE, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF, THERE ARE A LOT OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS WRITTEN FOR CERTAIN DEVELOPMENTS AND CERTAIN TYPE OF DEVELOPMENTS THAT'S PUT IN UNDER A RESIDENTIAL USE GROUP AS PART OF THE WHOLE, UM, INTERCHANGE OFFICE, WHICH IS EVERYTHING FROM PFIZER AND EVEN GOING ALL THE WAY TO SS E I ALL THE WAY ALONG OUR COAL CIDER MILL ROADS UP TO, UM, WHITE SPRINGS FARM IS SOME VERSION OF INTERCHANGE OFFICE.
BECAUSE THERE'S A, THERE'S A CERTAIN TYPE OF ZONING FOR THE INTERCHANGES BECAUSE THE TRAFFIC AND THE IMPACT.
SO YOU ASSUME YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE HAVING SINGLE FAMILIES DETACHED USES THERE.
IS IS THAT OVERSEE BY THE STATE OR IS THAT LOCAL? NO, THAT'S, THAT'S ZONING IS ALL LOCAL.
SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING JEFF ABOUT LIKE THE RIDGE PIKE AREA OR THE OAKS, YOU KNOW, OAKS MILLS.
WOULD YOU SEE MORE RESIDENTIAL GOING IN THOSE TWO AREAS TO, TO SUPPORT SOME OF THAT, THAT RETAIL AND, AND COMMERCIAL? I, I REALLY DON'T.
I I, I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD, WE'VE HAD PEOPLE COME TO US ABOUT RETAIL, OR I'M SORRY, RESIDENTIAL ON RIDGE PIKE.
AND AGAIN, I WALKED 'EM THROUGH THE PROCESS.
THE BOARD, I THINK DIDN'T TURN THEM DOWN, BUT BASICALLY HELD THEM UP ENOUGH THAT THEY SAID WE'RE, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THIS.
I THINK TWO OR THREE TIMES, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK.
I MEAN, THERE'S AREAS ENTRAP WHERE THEY PUT RESIDENTIAL, THEY PUT LIKE AN OFFICE BUILDING IN FRONT AND RESIDENTIAL RIGHT BEHIND IT.
I DON'T THINK IT WORKS FOR OUR PORTIONS OF RIDGE PIKE, BUT THEN AGAIN, WE DON'T SEE RETAIL GOING IN THERE.
THE, THE ONE DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL WE'VE HAD OVER THE PAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS FOR ANYTHING ON RIDGE PIKE WAS THE KEHOE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WAS A, A FLEX INDUSTRIAL SPACE FOR RIGHT NEXT TO THE, WELL, YOU'VE GOT THE STORAGE PLACE ON KLEIN ROAD, THEN YOU'VE GOT THE POWER LINES, AND THEN IT WAS NEXT TO IT.
SO IT WASN'T RIGHT NEXT TO THE, BUT I KNOW THAT IF YOU WERE TO PUT FLEX INDUSTRIAL UP THERE, YOU'D PROBABLY GET DEVELOPMENTS LIKE CRAZY BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE LAND USES THAT'S REALLY BUILDING RIGHT NOW.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT PLAN, JEFF? THEY, THEY DECIDED NOT TO.
THEY, THEY, THEY, THEY APPEALED THEIR ZONING, HEARING BOARD DECISION.
THE ZONING HEARING BOARD TURNED THEM DOWN, UM, DENIED THEIR APPLICATION.
I THINK THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ORAL ARGUMENTS ON THAT DECISION BY THE TOWNSHIP AND BY THE APPLICANT, UM, IN JUNE.
I THINK THE APPLICANT KICKED IT DOWN THE ROAD A LITTLE BIT
[00:55:01]
MORE.UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO WAY TO, UM, FORCE THE HEARING OR FORCE ANY OF THAT.
IT TENDS TO BE WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER.
IF THEY WANNA STALL, THEY CAN.
SO I THINK THEY'RE JUST, I THINK IT'S JUST ON HOLD.
WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR PROJECTED TIMELINE FOR PRESENTING PIECES OR WHATEVER TO ACTUALLY, THIS IS YOUR RECOMMENDATION FOR THE WHOLE THING OR BITS AND PIECES.
I MEAN, WHAT I WANT TO DO A SECTION EVERY MONTH.
SO NEXT MONTH ACTUALLY WE'LL DO TWO NEXT MONTH WE'LL DO, WE'LL DO THE COMMUNITY FACILITIES, WHICH IS STORMWATER AND SEWER, AND WE'LL DO TRAFFIC.
BUT THERE'LL BE DEFINITIVE CONCRETE.
I DON'T KNOW, BECAUSE I'M WRITING THEM.
PLANNING COMMISSION CAN, CAN REVIEW AND VOTE.
WELL, NO, IT WILL BE, IT WILL BE AN INTRODUCTION TO IT.
AND THEN WE'LL PROBABLY COME BACK IN OCTOBER AND TALK ABOUT ALL OF THE SECTIONS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.
HOUSING, TRANSPORTATION, SEWER, STORM, WATER, COME TO SOME CONCLUSIONS THERE.
AND THEN LAND USE WILL BE AFTER THAT.
SO LAND USE WILL BE THE BIG ONE.
THERE'LL BE, WE'LL GO BACK AND FORTH ABOUT IT.
THEN AS WE, WHEN WE PUT THE FINAL DOCUMENT TOGETHER, I WILL PULL OUT RECOMMENDATIONS BASED ON WHAT WE'VE SAID HERE, HERE IN THESE MEETINGS AND WHAT WE'VE SAID IN THE PLAN AND MAKE ACTION ITEMS FOR THEM TO VOTE ON AND SAY, I WANT THIS ONE.
I DON'T WANT THIS ONE, I WANT THIS ONE.
THAT'S WAY THE FIRST QUARTER OF NEXT YEAR.
A LOT OF IT DEPENDS ON THE BUDGET PROCESS.
ON, ON THE, RIGHT NOW THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IS VERY QUIET.
I'M GONNA SUGGEST TO THEM IN A MINUTE THAT WE HAVE BOTH SEPTEMBER MEETINGS AND MAYBE WE CAN GET THROUGH A LITTLE BIT MORE FASTER.
SO A LOT OF IT DEPENDS ON, AGAIN, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE NO LAND DEVELOPMENTS.
IF I SUDDENLY GET THREE OR FOUR OF THEM IN, OR THREE OR FOUR OF THEM BACK IN, IT IS, IT'S HARD TO TAKE THE TIME.
I CANNOT TAKE THE TIME AWAY FROM THEM BECAUSE I'M UNDER A STATE MANDATED CLOCK.
THIS IS, THIS HAS ALL BEEN EXTREMELY INFORMATIVE AND I, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THAT THE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS, HASN'T HAD ACCESS TO A LOT OF THIS BEFORE, BUT I'M JUST LOOKING FOR MORE DEFINITIVE.
THIS IS THE, THIS IS THIS PIECE OF THE PLAN.
THIS IS THE PIECE OF THE PLAN.
THEY HAVEN'T HAD A LOT OF ACCESS TO IT BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO INTRODUCE, I'M TRYING TO INTRODUCE IT TO THEM AND, AND WALK THEM THROUGH IT BECAUSE I CAN HAND THEM 50 PAGES OF TYPE OF STUFF THAT I'VE WRITTEN.
BUT IT DOESN'T DO ANY, IT DOESN'T HAVE THE CONTEXT.
I THINK THAT PRESENTING IT TO 'EM IN A MEETING HAS NO, I, NO, I I'M DISAGREEING WITH THAT.
I'M JUST, I'M JUST, I'M KIND OF, YES, I'M ANXIOUS FOR I KNOW YOU WANT, YOU WANT THE APPLE AT THE END OF THE DAY.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, I'M SORRY.
I CAN COME UP WITH PROBABLY 50 RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THINGS AND BECAUSE PROFESSIONALLY THAT'S, IT'S WHAT I CAN DO.
I I'M JUST, THAT'S WHY I ASKED THAT QUESTION.
HOW DO WE START WRITING THIS DOCUMENT? BECAUSE I'M, I'M LIKE YOU, I'M SAYING, OKAY, NOW HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD? BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE DO NEED THE, THE, THE, THE INFRASTRUCTURE PART.
YOU NEED TO SET THE GROUNDWORK.
THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND, AND THIS DEMOGRAPHICS IS, IS THE, IS THE BASIS FOR IT.
I'M JUST TRYING TO WRAP MY HEAD AROUND THIS PROCESS.
AND, AND THIS IS EVERY 10 YEARS PLUS MINUS, DEPENDING ON HOW IT GOES.
I, I DON'T KNOW A SINGLE MUNICIPALITY OUT THERE THAT GETS TO 10 YEARS.
AND I, I'VE SAT THROUGH A COUPLE OF THE 10 YEAR COMPREHENSIVELY AND IT, IT IS, IT'S A, IT'S A LENGTHY ITEM BECAUSE YOU REFLECT ON WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER THOSE 10, 14, 12 YEARS AND TRY TO MAKE CORRECT MISTAKES AND TRY TO MAKE A FINER LINE GOING UP THROUGH, I THINK THIS YEAR YOU DID A GOOD JOB, JEFF, WITH COVID GOING THROUGH THE MEETINGS AND TRYING TO GET THROUGH WHAT, WHAT ALL WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT.
AND NOW OBVIOUSLY IT'S FINE TUNING TO PRESENT.
AND, AND I, I THINK, UM, WE CAN JUMP BACK TO THE, TO THE AGENDA.
LET'S GO BACK TO, UH, WELL, THERE'S NO APPLICATIONS TONIGHT.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE AGENDA.BUT THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD TOPIC.
WHAT WHAT IS THE FUTURE IN GENERAL? WE GONNA STICK WITH THIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, JEFF.
AGAIN, I, I DON'T HAVE ANY OF ALL THE LAND DEVELOPMENTS.
IROQUOIS DRIVE, I'VE GOT NOTHING NEW ON GOING BACK TO LOOKING AT THE AGENDA.
IROQUOIS DRIVE, I'VE GOT NOTHING NEW ON.
SO UNLESS I GET SOMETHING IN THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS, THAT'S NOT GONNA BE ON ANYTHING UNTIL THE MIDDLE, UNTIL THE SECOND MEETING OF SEPTEMBER BECAUSE WE NEED TIME TO REVIEW IT.
UM, SAME THING WITH THE HANER ROAD MINOR SUBDIVISION.
THAT ONE MAYBE WE COULD SQUEEZE OUT.
'CAUSE IT'S A PRETTY, AGAIN, IT'S A MINOR SUBDIVISION.
IT JUST DEPENDS ON HOW THEY'RE ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS WE'VE PUT TO THEM.
UM, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NEW ON THE PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER REVISED FINAL PLAN.
WELL, ON THE RESIDENCE OF PROVIDENCE
[01:00:01]
TOWN CENTER, YOUR KEY STATION AND TO FOLEY, THOSE ARE ALL BEING REVIEWED BY THE ENGINEER AND BY THE, BY THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER TO CLEAN UP THOSE ISSUES.THEY'RE IN THE FINAL PLAN STAGES.
UM, THEY'LL COME IN WHEN THE PLANS ARE CLEAN AND WE'LL, WE WILL GO FROM THERE.
AND AMELIA STREET AND LOVER'S LANE, THEY BOTH HAVE ZONING, HEARING BOARD ACTIVITIES THAT THEY GOTTA GET THROUGH BEFORE THEY'LL LOVER BE BACK TO US.
WHAT ABOUT LEWIS ROAD? LEWIS ROAD? HAS THEY'VE GOTTEN THEIR FINAL, WERE THEY, THEY I THINK THEY GOT THEIR FINAL, NO, THEY DID NOT GET THEIR FINAL.
I'M PRETTY SURE THEY DIDN'T GET THEIR FINAL, SO THEY'RE PROBABLY WORKING ON FINAL PLANS RIGHT NOW.
THERE WERE, THERE WAS, WE WERE KIND OF GOING BACK AND FORTH ABOUT, UM, WHAT PENDOT WAS GONNA REQUIRE AND WHAT THEY WEREN'T GONNA REQUIRE.
AND I THINK PENNDOT'S FINALLY FACT GIVEN THEM ALL THE FACTS THEY NEED.
SO I WOULD EXPECT THAT THAT FINAL PLAN WILL COME INTO, ARE YOU GONNA SEE THAT AGAIN? YEAH.
ARE THESE ZONING DECISIONS? NO, THESE ARE PLANNING COMMISSION ISSUES.
THE, WHEN YOU GET TO AMELIA STREET, TOWNHOME AND LOVER'S LANE, THEY'RE BOTH A SEPARATE, THEY'RE SAME DEVELOPMENT, BUT A SEPARATE ISSUE THAT HAS TO GO FROM THE ZONING HEARING.
AND SO AMELIA STREET'S BEEN SCHEDULED FOR SEPTEMBER 11TH AND LOVER'S LANE, THEY HAVE NOT BEEN RESCHEDULED YET.
THEY REALIZE HOW MUCH INFORMATION THEY NEED TO PROVIDE THAT THEY DIDN'T, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE COMING BACK IN WITH MORE HOPEFULLY SOON.
IS IT FAIR TO LOVER ZONING, GEARING ON THAT? I'M SORRY.
THEY WILL HAVE ANOTHER MEETING.
SO IS IT FAIR TO ADD LEWIS ROAD ON THERE AS WE'RE GONNA SEE THAT AGAIN? YOU WILL SEE THAT AGAIN.
I ONLY PUT ACTIVE APPLICATIONS ON HERE.
I DON'T WANNA, I MEAN, I HAVE A LIST OF, BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S STILL CATALYST, CATALYST, THE WAREHOUSE IN PROVIDENCE BUSINESS CENTER AS FAR AS BUSINESS PARK.
THAT'S AT THE VERY EARLY STAGES.
UM, THERE'S A FINAL PLAN FOR, UM, WELL, YOU'RE NOT CALLING LOSE ROAD ACTIVE.
IF I DON'T HAVE A CURRENT PLAN, IT'S NOT ACTIVE IN MY MIND BECAUSE ACTIVE TO ME MEANS THAT I HAVE TO FOLLOW AN M P C, I HAVE TO FOLLOW A CLOCK AND I NEED TO MAKE SURE I TRACK THE APPLICATION.
IF THEY HAVEN'T PUT IN A NEW APPLICATION, IT'S NOT ACTIVE.
I'M NOT SAYING IT'S GONE AWAY.
I THINK THAT THEY'VE BEEN, THEY HAD SOME DETAILS, SOME LEGAL DETAILS THEY HAD TO IRON OUT.
AND NOW I THINK THEY'RE GONNA COME BACK IN WITH THEIR FINAL PLAN.
THE KLEIN ROAD, REMEMBER IT'S OF 30 LOTS OF DIVISION UP THERE BY TAYLOR FARM.
UM, WHAT ELSE DO WE HAVE? WHAT ABOUT, UM, WHAT ABOUT, UM, WHICH MCCALL ROAD? UH, THAT'S MY, UH, THAT'S AN OLD AGE IN THERE.
I I HAVE, I, I MEAN I I, THE LIST, I KEEP CROSSROAD FROM YOUR, YOU KNOW, UP, UP, UH, OH.
THEY'RE WORKING ON THEIR FINAL PLANS.
THEY HAVE PRELIMINARY PLAN APPROVAL.
THEY HAVE TO GO TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD FOR SOME STEEP SLOPE RELIEF FOR THE BACK PART OF THAT PROPERTY.
AND THEY, I THINK THEY'RE PUTTING THAT APPLICATION IN RELATIVELY SOON FROM WHAT MS. ERO TOLD ME.
SO THAT ONE'S STILL ACTIVE, BUT THEY HAVE TO DO THAT BEFORE THEY CAN GET TO FILING.
SO I MEAN, FROM A, SO YOU DON'T HAVE A PLAN, SO YOU DON'T CONSIDER THAT ACTIVE? I DO NOT CONSIDER THAT ACTIVE NOW.
THERE'S, UM, 3 57 GREENWOOD AVENUE THAT'S TECHNICALLY A PLAN OUT THERE.
SO I KEEP IT IN A LIST CALLED CURRENT.
UM, THERE'S KEHOE, THERE'S THE 1731 COLLEGEVILLE ROAD, MCCAULEY THAT'S DOWN THE, THAT'S UP THE STREET FROM YOUR KEYS.
THAT'S THE FOUR BUILDINGS WITH THE APARTMENTS ON TOP OF THE OFFICES UNDERNEATH.
WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THOSE A WHILE.
RIGHT? I, I, THEIR DEVELOPER SAID THAT THEY'RE IN PROCESS.
THEY'RE CLEANING UP A FEW THINGS.
SO, UM, HOPWOOD, GALMAN, LEWIS ROAD, TOWN HOMES, AMELIA STREET, OLD MILL, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS DONE LOVER'S LANE, QUI DRIVE, CATALYST.
AND THEN, YEAH, I MEAN THOSE ARE MY, SORT OF MY CURRENT ONES THAT AREN'T FOR MY EMAIL AND FOR MY FILES I COUNT THEM AS PRE-APPROVAL AND POST-APPROVAL.
SO WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST WE DO WITH SEPTEMBER 6TH? I SUGGEST WE TALK, UM, EITHER THE BEGINNINGS OF LAND USE.
'CAUSE I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND WHAT LAND USES WE HAVE IN THE TOWNSHIP, WHAT PERCENTAGES OF THE TOWNSHIP THEY ARE AND WHERE THEY ARE AS A BASIS FOR THAT.
SO THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHAT LAND USES WE NEED IN THE TOWNSHIP, WE KNOW WHERE THEY CAN GO.
WE CAN DO THAT ON SEPTEMBER 6TH AND THEN SEPTEMBER 20TH WE CAN TALK, UM, INFRASTRUCTURE, WE CAN TALK SEWER, WE CAN TALK STORMWATER AND WE CAN TALK ROADS.
AND THEN OCTOBER WITH ANTHONY AND JEN, WITH ANTHONY AND JEN.
I MEAN, WE CAN, WE CAN ACCELERATE A LITTLE BIT.
I MEAN, I WAS TRYING TO KEEP IT TO ONE A MONTH TO NOT OVERWHELM YOU, BUT IF YOU'RE READY TO DO TWO A MONTH, WE'LL DO TWO A MONTH.
DON'T YOU THINK IF INTEREST RATES ALL OF A SUDDEN DROPPED ABOUT
[01:05:01]
15% OF WHAT THEY ARE TODAY, THIS AGENDA WOULD BE START, FILL UP AGAIN? IT ABSOLUTELY WOULD.AND AND THAT'S WHY I THINK MAYBE GOING TO TWO A MONTH IS PROBABLY GOOD.
MAYBE WE CAN JUMP AHEAD OF IT A LITTLE BIT.
LET'S, I THINK, YOU KNOW, COME SEPTEMBER NOW, EVERYBODY'S GONNA GET BACK TO SCHOOL.
WE'LL KEEP BOTH OF THOSE MEETINGS GOOD.
SO, UM, SO WITH THAT WE'VE GOT THE AGENDAS FIXED.
UM, WE ALSO HAVE THE ENVIRONMENTAL AG ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
UH, I'VE GOT, UM, I'VE GOT WORDING FOR THE SINGLE, UH, PLASTIC BAG USE I'M WRITING UP.
I GOT, I GOT THE DOCUMENT FROM SOME OTHER TOWNSHIPS.
AND I'M JUST KIND OF, UH, FOSTERING IT TO LOOK SO IT LOOKS OKAY.
SO, UH, WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT THAT ON THAT MEETING.
ANYTHING YOU WANT TO GIVE ME BY THE BEGINNING OF SEPTEMBER? YEP.
I'LL HAVE SOMETHING FOR YOU SOMETIME.
BUT I'LL HAVE SOMETHING FOR THAT MEETING.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING ON THE BOARD? NOTHING.
GAIL, I'LL TAKE, I'LL TAKE A, UH, MOTION TO ADJOURN.