[00:00:01]
[CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL]
CALL TO ORDER THE, UM, UH, JULY 19TH, UH, MEETING OF THE, UH, UPPER PROVINCEAND, UM, SO, UH, WE'RE GONNA START WITH THE AGENDA.
EVERYBODY SEEING THE AGENDA THAT JEFF HAS PUT OUT COPIES, EVERYBODY SHOULD BE ON THEIR DESK.
[MOTION TO APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA]
A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE AGENDA.IT'S NOT A VERY LONG AGENDA THIS EVENING.
MATTER OF FACT, WE HAVE NO PRESENTERS, I BELIEVE, RIGHT? JEFF? NO PRESENTER TONIGHT.
SO, UH, BUT EVERYBODY LOOKS AT THE AGENDA AND ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A MOTION.
SO WE'VE APPROVED THE, UH, ABOVE, UH,
[PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AGENDA ITEMS]
AGENDA, PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS. ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? WE GOT TWO COMMENTS, TWO PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC.WE WERE LOOKING FOR YOU TO DO SOMETHING.
UM, SO WE HAVE NO PUBLIC COMMENTS,
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS, WHICH IS, UH, THE MINUTES FROM OUR JUNE 7TH.IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE'VE BEEN HERE.
UM, AS WE ALL KNOW, WE'VE TAKEN A FEW WEEKS OFF, BUT HAS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO GO THROUGH THE MINUTES FROM, UH, JUNE 7TH? THAT WAS THE MEETING WITH, I THINK, UH, UH, PROVIDENCE, RED, PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER PEOPLE, RIGHT? YEP.
THAT WAS A, THAT WAS A GOOD MEETING.
UH, I THINK WE HAD A LOT OF ISSUES AROUND THAT AND PROBABLY STILL HAVE A LOT MORE YET.
KEEP BY SAID, WHERE WERE YOU? WE CALLED YOU AND YOUR WIFE'S LIKE, HE'S NOT EVEN ALIVE.
UH, ANY, UH, ANY, UH, THING ON THE MEETING? DO I HAVE, UH, MINUTES? IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES ON JUNE 7TH.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO, UH, APPROVE THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN.
ALL RIGHT, AJ, YOU'VE MADE A MOTION.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR ADDITIONS OR SUBTRACTIONS? IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A VOTE.
MINUTES FROM JUNE 7TH, SAY, AYE.
AND WE'VE, UH, PASSED THAT ONE.
UH, THAT MOVES US ON TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DISCUSSION, WHICH IS REALLY, UM, WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BELOW, RIGHT, JEFF? ALL THE, UM, YES, ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE OPEN OR THESE ARE OPEN, UH, PROGRAMS. THE COMP PLAN IS SOMETHING WE, WE SORT OF STARTED WORKING ON AS A SUBCOMMITTEE.
WE SORT, WE APPOINTED A SUBCOMMITTEE.
I THINK A COUPLE MEMBERS WOULD COME TO THE SUBCOMMITTEE MEETINGS.
IT'S NOW ABOUT 13 YEARS OUT FROM OUR LAST COMP PLAN.
THE, THE BOARD WANTS TO MOVE IT FORWARD.
AND I'LL, I'LL START AT THE VERY BASIC LEVEL.
A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS A GUIDING DOCUMENT FOR A TOWNSHIP.
IT'S NOT THE HARD AND FAST RULES.
IT'S NOT, IT IS NOTHING SET IN STONE.
IT'S JUST A GENERAL GUIDING DOCUMENT FOR HOW THE TOWNSHIP WANTS TO DEVELOP AND WHAT, WHAT THEIR PRIORITIES ARE.
IT DOESN'T MEAN WE GET AS SPECIFIC AS SAYING THIS NUMBER OF HOUSES ON THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY, BUT YOU, YOU TALK ABOUT LOW AND MEDIUM DENSITY.
YOU TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE PROVIDING THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF HOUSING, THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF BUSINESSES, THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF SPACE FOR RETAIL USES, OFFICE USES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
YOU, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A MARKET REACTION.
IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DEMOGRAPHIC REACTION OF HOW THE TOWNSHIP'S GROWN.
WHAT SPACE IS AVAILABLE, WHAT SPACE IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE.
IT'S, IT IS, WE TRY TO SORT OF ENCAPSULATE IT TO GIVE SORT OF A GUIDE TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND TO POTENTIAL DEVELOPERS HOW WE WANNA SEE THE TOWNSHIP EVOLVE.
AND THAT THAT CAN MEAN AS SIMPLY AS I'VE SAID TO THE, THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND A LONG TIME AGO, THAT, HEY, WE DON'T WANNA DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN WE'RE ALREADY DOING.
OR, HEY, WE DON'T WANNA DO ANYTHING AT ALL.
YOU CAN'T ALWAYS SAY, WE DON'T WANNA HAVE ANY DEVELOPMENT AT ALL BECAUSE EVERYBODY HAS PROPERTY RIGHTS.
PEOPLE CAN ALWAYS DEVELOP, BUT YOU CAN SAY, HEY, WE WANT TO LIMIT THE DEVELOPMENT TO SINK FAMILY DETACHED HOUSES, OR, UM, YOU KNOW, TO LARGE OFFICE BUILDINGS.
IF, IF YOU SAY, HEY, WE REALLY NEED OFFICES IN THIS AREA.
LET'S REONE SOMETHING FOR OFFICE, OR LET'S LOOK AT OFFICE DEVELOPMENT WHERE THAT CAN BE.
UM, YOU ALSO HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DOES WHAT'S CALLED A FAIR SHARE ANALYSIS.
EVERY MUNICIPALITY HAS TO PROVIDE A FAIR SHARE OF CERTAIN TYPES OF HOUSING, SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED, SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED MULTIFAMILY, AND THE EVERRET MOBILE HOMES.
NOW WE PROVIDE ALL OF THOSE THINGS AND WE'LL GET INTO HOUSING NEXT
[00:05:01]
MONTH.I THINK, UM, WE'LL PROBABLY TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT NOW.
UM, BUT WE GENERALLY NEED OUR FAIR SHARE, BUT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE'RE, WE SHOULDN'T BE COGNIZANT OF IT TO BE AWARE OF WHAT HOUSING WE NEED, WHAT HOUSING WE HAVE BASED ON POPULATION PROJECTIONS.
AND AGAIN, WE'LL GET INTO THE POPULATION PROJECTIONS A LITTLE BIT MORE WHEN WE GET INTO THE HOUSING PART OF IT.
YOU KNOW, FOR ME IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF AN ACADEMIC EXERCISE.
I FIND IT PRETTY INTERESTING TO, TO DO THAT.
OTHER PEOPLE MAY SAY, WE DON'T CARE WHAT THE NUMBER IS, WHAT THEY THINK WE'RE GONNA GROW TO.
LET'S JUST KEEP IT ALL SINGLE FAMILY DETENTION, WHICH IS AN AVENUE TO GO.
AND IF THAT'S WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION WANTS, AND THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD WANTS, THAT'S WHAT THE PLAN SAYS.
NONE OF THIS PLAN IS WHAT I WANT THE DETENTION TO DO.
IT'S WHAT I THINK IT SHOULD BE IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION.
BUT IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD SAY, HEY, WE WANT IT TO BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT, AS LONG AS THAT PASSES A LEGAL MUSTER FROM JOE, THEN WE CAN DO THAT.
AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS, IF WE CAME OUT AND WE SAID, WELL, WE WANT, WE DON'T WANT ONE ACRE ZONING, WE WANT FOUR ACRE ZONING, WE WANT 10 ACRE ZONING.
THERE'S BEEN CASES IN THE STATE WHERE THEY DON'T ALLOW YOU TO, TO HAVE THE ZONING THAT'S THAT BROAD.
YOU CAN'T SAY, HEY, WE DON'T WANT ANY, WE WANT EVERYTHING TO BE 10 ACRES ZONING AT THIS POINT.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE 10 ACRES IN, YOU CAN'T BUILD ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T PASS LEGAL MUST.
SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE'LL GET TO WHEN WE GET DOWN TO THE NITTY GRITTY OF THE, OF THE ACTION ITEMS AND, AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS TONIGHT, I JUST WANT TO TALK ABOUT DEMOGRAPHICS, GIVE YOU JUST A GENERAL OVERVIEW OF HOW BIG WE'VE GOTTEN, HOW MANY PEOPLE LIVE HERE, UM, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE AND WHAT THEY ARE.
YOU KNOW, UH, WE'LL GET INTO MORE DETAILS, A LITTLE BIT ABOUT LAND USE AND SOME OF THE CONCERNS I HAVE FOR LAND USE.
AND THEN, AND THEN WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND SORT OF WHAT OUR TIMETABLE AND OUR NEXT STEPS ARE GONNA BE.
JEFF, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT, HOW DOES THAT AFFECT SOMEBODY THAT HAS OWNS, EITHER OWNS OR HAS PURCHASED A PIECE OF PROPERTY WITH THE INTENTION OF DOING SOMETHING THAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN THE FUTURE SAYS THEY CAN'T DO, BUT THEY'VE ALREADY BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY WITH THE PLAN, THE IDEA TO DO SOMETHING, AND WE GO, OBVIOUSLY NOW IT'S GOTTA BE NOW ONLY SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS.
HOW DOES THAT, HOW DO, HOW DO THOSE TWO MEASURE? AGAIN, IT IS ONLY AN ADVISORY DOCUMENT AND I, WE, I THINK WE ALL KNOW THE DEVELOPMENTS YOU'RE PROBABLY TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT?
SO, UM, IT'S ONLY AN ADVISORY DOCUMENT.
SO WE MIGHT SAY, HEY, WE WANT TO, AND MY JOB IS GONNA BE TO COUCH THE LANGUAGE, TO NOT PUT US IN A PUT THE BOARD IN ANY CONFLICT.
YOU KNOW, TO SAY WE PREFER SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOUSING DOESN'T MEAN WELL NOW YOU CAN ONLY DATE BUILD SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOUSING.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE'RE GONNA GET A PREFERENCE.
JUST LIKE YOU SAY, HEY, I WANT MY SICK MEDIUM PRAYER.
YOU GET IT, YOU GET IT MEDIUM.
YOU DON'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT, BUT YOU CAN STATE YOUR PREFERENCE AND WE CAN ESTABLISH WHY WE WANT IT THAT WAY.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA, REALISTICALLY IT'S NOT GONNA HELP US WITH THE BIG DEVELOPMENT WE'RE ALL TALKING ABOUT.
WELL, AND THAT ONE IS, YEAH, THAT'S GOES WITHOUT SAYING, BUT FOR WHAT LAND THERE IS LEFT, RIGHT? IF THERE IS ANY PIECE THAT, YOU KNOW, CROSS FROM, UH, PROVINCE CENTER THERE, THAT PROPERTY, UM, IS IT TOO LATE TO SAY NOW WE DON'T WANT THAT TO BE DEVELOPED WITH HOTELS OR, OR NO.
NOW, NOW YOU HAVE SOME ISSUE WITH WHAT PROPERTY RIGHTS ARE YOU TAKING FROM THEM, RIGHT? SO THAT'S, THAT'S SOMEWHAT OF AN ISSUE AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT.
DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU SAID, YOU WANTED TO GO THERE.
BUT IF YOUR IDEA WAS, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANNA SEE MORE OFFICE BUILDINGS THERE, WE DON'T THINK OFFICES OF VIABLE LAND USE IN THIS TOWNSHIP ANYMORE.
WE'D LIKE TO SEE HOUSES, WE'D LIKE TO SEE TOWNHOUSES, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WE THINK THAT'S A BETTER OPTION.
ALL YOU CAN, ALL YOU'RE DOING IS PUTTING THAT OPTION OUT THERE.
YOU'RE SAYING, HEY, WE THINK IT'S A BETTER OPTION TO PUT TOWNHOUSES THERE.
IF THEY OPT FOR THAT, THEY HAVE THE BACKGROUND AND THE BACKING IN THE COMP PLAN TO OPT FOR THAT.
AND THAT'S WHEN THEY WOULD ASK FOR A ZONING CHANGE.
SAME THING WITH A FIVE ACRE PIECE.
YOU KNOW, IF WE COME OUT AND WE SAY, LET'S SAY OUR, OUR HOUSING ANALYSIS SHOWS THAT WE ARE DEFICIENT IN THE NUMBER OF HOUSES THAT WE CAN BUILD IN THIS TOWNSHIP BASED ON THE CURRENT ZONING.
THAT'S PART OF THE ANALYSIS OF THE HOUSING PLAN.
AND YOU'LL SEE IT, AND I KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER IS.
I'LL GIVE YOU, I'LL TELL YOU AT THE END WHAT THAT NUMBER IS.
BUT IF WE SAY, OKAY, WE'RE DEFICIENT IN THE NUMBER OF HOUSES WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO BUILD IN THIS TOWNSHIP, WE NEED TO LOOK AT HAVING HIGHER DENSITY ZONE BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS OWNED R ONE, THAT'S ONE ACRE, BUT WE KNOW THAT WE NEED A THOUSAND MORE UNITS TO GET THAT POPULATION THAT IS SUPPOSEDLY GONNA MOVE INTO THIS TOWNSHIP.
HOW DO WE DO THAT? YOU GET MORE DENSE, YOU CHANGE THE DENSITY.
IF YOUR OPINION IS, WE DON'T WANT THAT POPULATION, WE WANT TO KEEP IT AS OUR ONE, THAT'S ONE AVENUE OR THE OTHER
[00:10:01]
AVENUE IS, HEY, WE, WE WANT TO CAPTURE THAT AND WE REALIZE THAT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TOWNHOUSES IN THIS DEVELOPMENT.I'M JUST PICKING RANDOM THINGS AND NOT STATING OPINION.
THEN YOU CHANGE PART OF THE ZONING TO SAY, HEY, WE NEED MORE TOWNHOUSES.
AND OR YOU, ONE OF THE ACTION ITEMS IS REVIEW R ONE OR R TWO TO ALLOW FOR TOWNHOUSES ON A CERTAIN TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT.
NOT TO SAY LET'S BLANKET EVERYTHING IN TOWNHOUSES, BUT THAT'S THE AVENUE THAT YOU WOULD TAKE.
NOW, I STILL NEED TO REFINE A FEW THINGS.
RIGHT NOW MY ANALYSIS IS THAT BETWEEN NOW AND 2050 WE'RE DEFICIENT BY ABOUT 38 HOUSES.
38 HOUSES, 38 HOUSES BASED ON OUR CURRENT ZONING AND BASED ON WHAT OUR POPULATION'S GONNA BE, WE'RE DOING OKAY.
NOW, AGAIN, WE'LL GET TO THAT ANALYSIS AND I'LL BREAK THAT ALL DOWN FOR YOU PROBABLY AT THE NEXT MEETING.
BUT BASED, GENUINELY BASED ON OUR CURRENT ZONING, AND THIS, I'LL BE PERFECTLY FRANK, THIS DOESN'T, PARK HOUSE IS A BLACK HOLE TO ME IN THE COMP PLAN.
I'M NOT TOUCHING IT, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT IT.
I'M, I'M FIRST SAYING IT IS WHAT IT IS.
THE DEVELOPMENT'S BEEN PUT FORWARD.
NOW AGAIN, WE CAN SAY OUR PREFERENCE IS FOR THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT.
WE CAN SAY OUR PREFERENCE IS FOR THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE TOWNSHIP.
BUT BECAUSE IT'S AN ACTIVE LAND USE APPLICATION, I LEAVE IT OUT.
I LEAVE OUT, UM, THE
FOLEY AND, AND QUI STATION ARE DIFFERENT BECAUSE THEY'RE FARTHER IN THE PROCESS.
PARKHOUSE IS AT THE VERY BEGINNING.
SO I'M GOING TO HAVE A PARAGRAPH EXPLAINING WHAT IT IS, EXPLAINING WHAT THEY'VE ASKED FOR, AND THAT'S ABOUT IT.
BECAUSE AGAIN, IT IS BECOMES A LEGAL QUAGMIRE WHEN WE START QUITTING ALL OF THAT OTHER SORT OF INFORMATION IN THERE.
JEFF, UM, I, BEFORE WE KICK THE GET INTO THE DETAILS, JUST FOR ME, IT'D BE HELPFUL IF YOU COULD JUST KIND OF CONFIRM, AND I KNOW JOE'S NOT HERE, BUT WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT PARKHOUSE AS AN EXAMPLE, IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WERE BEING HAD IN THE INITIAL MEETINGS AND THEN FOLLOW ON, THERE WERE COMMENTS SUCH AS THAT SOUNDED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MOST RECENT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
SO THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, IS THE VIEW OF A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AT LEAST SOMETHING WE CAN VOTE ON IF IT COME TO IT, SAY THIS IS OR IS NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH OUR PLAN, AND THEN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF THAT, USING ANY LAND DEVELOPMENT, NOT SPECIFICALLY PARKHOUSE.
THAT YOU CAN USE THAT AS SAYING, WE DON'T THINK THAT THIS CHANGE, AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A CHANGE IN A DEVELOPMENT WHEN IT'S A BUY RATE DEVELOPMENT.
IT'S A BUY RATE DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE AGAIN, ZONING FOR TRUMPS ALL.
UM, BUT WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT CHANGING ZONING, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT CHANGING WHAT YOU CAN DO ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY, THAT'S WHEN YOU GO BACK TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
LET'S SAY THERE'S A PIECE OF ON RIDGE PIKE THAT, THAT, THE PULTE PIECE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ALL REMEMBER THAT.
I THINK YOU WERE HERE AT THE TIME, POULT WANTED TO DO TOWNHOUSES ON A, ON A COMMERCIALLY ZONE PIECE, AND THEN THEY WANTED TO DO SINGLE FAMILY DETACH ON A COMMERCIALLY ZONE PIECE.
IT, THAT'S NEVER BEEN EVEN CONTEMPLATED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
AND AT ONE POINT SOMEONE DID SAY, THIS ISN'T IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHY SHOULD WE EVER APPROVE THIS? THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE COMMERCIAL, LET'S KEEP IT COMMERCIAL.
SO THAT'S, THAT WAS THE BASIS FOR NOT ALLOWING THAT ZONING TO GO FORWARD.
I'M JUST THINKING LIKE IF THERE'S THERE, THERE COULDN'T BE.
BUT IF THERE WAS ANOTHER PARKHOUSE, YOU KNOW, WE DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE THAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DOESN'T ALLOW SITU CERTAIN SITUATIONS TO OCCUR.
THERE COULD BE, I'M NOT SAYING THERE WILL BE, BUT THERE COULD BE BECAUSE THERE'S, LOOK, PFIZER IS PFIZER, BUT BUILDINGS ARE TEMPORARY AS MUCH AS YOU MAY NOT WANT THEM TO BE.
IF FOR SOME REASON, AND I, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT, AND I'M NOT PUTTING ANY SORT OF JUDGMENT ON PFIZER, BUT LET'S SAY SOMETHING HAPPENS TO PFIZER AND THAT BECOMES EMPTY.
THERE'S EVERY REASONABLE CHANCE THE DEVELOPER COULD PICK THAT UP FOR A SONG LEVEL, ALL THE BUILDINGS AND WANT TO PUT A PARKHOUSE LIFE DEVELOPMENT THERE.
IF THAT'S NOT IN OUR, IF THAT'S NOT IN OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT THAT, THAT'S THE BASIS FOR US TO SAY NO.
BUT AGAIN, PARKHOUSE, BECAUSE IT HAS THE ZONING, NOT SAYING IT'S PERFECT, BUT BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE ZONING, THEIR PATH IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
AND THEN THE SECOND QUESTION IS, I HAVEN'T LOOKED IN THE MUNICIPALITY ACT OR THE WHATEVER THE REGULATIONS ARE FOR THE STATE, BUT DOES THE PLANNING COMMISSION BOTTOM LINE, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHO, WHO'S THE FINAL SAY ON THE FINAL PRODUCT? THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IS ALWAYS THE FINAL SAY ON ANYTHING IN THE TOWNSHIP BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE THE ELECTED BODY, BUT THE PLANNING, THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THEY'RE ONE OF THEIR CHARGES IS TO WRITE AND TO SUBMIT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO THE BOARD FOR THEIR APPROVAL.
OKAY? NOW THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE BOARD CAN'T MAKE CHANGES, AND I DON'T THINK
[00:15:01]
YOU'RE SPECIFICALLY GOING TO BE WRITING ANYTHING.YOU'RE GONNA BE EVALUATING MY WRITING, ANTHONY'S WRITING, UM, JAN'S WRITING, UM, THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, BUT WHAT WE PUT IN THERE NOW, I'M CERTAINLY GONNA BE PUTTING SUGGESTIONS AND ACTION ITEMS IN AND WHERE I THINK IT SHOULD GO FROM MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION, IF YOU THINK I'M OUT IN LEFT FIELD, TELL ME THAT I'M NOT GONNA BE INSULTED.
I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT PERSONALLY.
I MEAN, MAYBE A LITTLE PERSONALLY, NO, I'M JUST KIDDING,
UM, BUT THAT, THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.
NOW, TYPICALLY YOU WOULD DO IT, YOU TRY TO DO IT AS A SUBCOMMITTEE.
I THINK BECAUSE OF COVID AND BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING ELSE, THAT SUBCOMMITTEE GAVE ME SOME IDEAS, BUT IT KIND OF FELL APART.
AND THAT'S PARTIALLY ON, THAT'S MOSTLY ON ME.
I PROBABLY COULD HAVE RESURRECTED AT SOME POINT IN TIME.
BUT NOW THAT WE'RE MOVING THIS FORWARD, I THINK IT'S BETTER TO JUST, FOR THE NEXT PROBABLY TWO OR THREE MONTHS, USE THE SECOND MEETING OF THE MONTH FOR JUST THIS PROCESS.
AND YOU'LL SEE FROM THE SECOND MEETING IN AUGUST, IF WE DECIDE TO HAVE IT THEN, UM, A A BUNCH OF TEXTS, TEXT OF THIS DEMOGRAPHIC STUFF WORKED OUT AND SOME ANALYSIS OF IT AND THE HOUSING PLAN, WE'LL GO THROUGH THAT.
I'LL GO THROUGH MY THINKING, MY RATIONALE, AND YOU'LL TELL ME, NO, WE DON'T WANNA DO IT THAT WAY.
OR WE'LL GO BACK AND FORTH AND THEN I'LL CHANGE IT FOR THE NEXT MEETING AND BRING IN ANOTHER SECTION, WHICH WOULD BE THE LAND USE SECTION.
WE'LL HAVE A TRANSPORTATION SECTION THAT BUILDS OFF OF THE ACT 2 0 9 PLAN AND BUILDS OFF THE ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION PLAN AND COMPLETE STREETS POLICY.
AND SORT OF, IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT MORE TECHNICAL IN TERMS OF THESE ARE THE RIGHTS, RIGHTS OF WAY THAT WE WANT TO CHANGE, OR THESE ARE THE, THE MORE TECHNICAL ASPECTS WE WANT TO CHANGE.
SAME THING WITH THE, UM, COMMUNITY FACILITIES ELEMENT, WHICH IS GONNA BE MORE JEN'S WORLD WITH MS FOUR AND STORMWATER CONTROLS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND AS WE JUST TALKED ABOUT IN THE EAC, IF WE WANT TO PUT IN, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE WANT MORE OF AN ENVIRONMENTAL FOCUS OR OUR MS FOUR AND WE WANT OUR COMMUNITY FACILITIES IN TERMS OF STORMWATER BASINS AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO DEVELOP IN MORE RE NATURALIZED METHOD, THIS IS A PLACE WE CAN PUT IT.
AND I, I ACTUALLY THOUGHT WE HAD A LOT OF GOOD DISCUSSIONS BEFORE COVID.
WE DID WHEN WE WERE MEETING AND, UM, WE GOT INTO OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF THE CONNECTING TRAILS, ET CETERA.
BUT WHEN COVID CAME AND THE MEETING WE HAD AFTERWARDS, THE ONE THING THAT STRUCK EVERYONE WAS THE FLUX THAT WAS CREATED BY THE ABANDONMENT OF OFFICE USE.
AND WE'LL GET INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT WITH, WITH THE, WITH THE DEMOGRAPHICS.
SO, ALRIGHT, LEMME GO THROUGH THIS REAL QUICK.
I DIDN'T WANNA KEEP YOU HERE TOO LATE.
BUT, UM, SO THIS IS ALL FROM THE CENSUS OF 2020.
AGAIN, IT'S A COUPLE YEARS OLD NOW, BUT ANY CENSUS THAT COMES OUT, IF IT COMES OUT, IF IT'S DONE IN 2020, IT USUALLY DOESN'T GET RELEASED FOR ONE OR TWO YEARS.
AND COVID FLOATED DOWN EVEN MORE THAN NORMAL.
SO WE REALLY DIDN'T GET MUCH OF THIS DATA UNTIL THE END OF LAST YEAR INTO THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR.
I GET EMAILS FROM THE CENSUS OF BUREAU DAILY, SOMETIMES MORE THAN OFTEN, MORE THAN ONE A DAY THAT SAYS, OH HEY, THIS DATE HAS BEEN RELEASED AND THAT DATE HAS BEEN RELEASED.
A LOT OF IT IS ESTIMATES AND COMPUTATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
STUFF WE DON'T NEED TO GET INTO.
BUT, UM, YOU'LL SEE SOME OF IT HERE.
OUR POPULATION, YOU CAN SEE WHAT ONE UP THE 24,116.
IT'S A 14% INCREASE, WHICH IS, I GUESS THE BEST WAY TO SAY IT IS HALF THE INCREASE WE HAVE FROM 2010, FROM 2000 TO 2010.
IF YOU LOOK AT IT, THE, THE POPULATION GROWTH THAT WE HAD BETWEEN 1990 AND 2010 PUT PUT US FIRST IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
AND I THINK IT WAS, I THINK IT WAS FIRST WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU EVEN ADDED CHESTER COUNTY IN THERE.
I MEAN, IN THOSE YEARS NOW OBVIOUSLY WE'RE SLOWING DOWN, WE'RE NOT DEVELOPING AS FAST.
TWO, 2008 HAD SOME ISSUES WITH THAT BECAUSE NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE DEVELOPING.
SO 2000 EIGHT'S GONNA EFFECT THE 2010 TO 2020 CENSUS.
UM, COVID HAD SOME, SOME SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT.
UM, AGAIN, WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE, THE LAND AREA ANYMORE.
UM, THE AVERAGE FAMILY IS 3.1 PEOPLE.
IT WASN'T RELEASED TILL 2022, OBVIOUSLY NOT HERE.
THE, THE OVERALL POPULATION FIGURE THERE IS IS 2020 DATA OR, YEAH, 2020 DATA.
AND THE PERCENTAGE INCREASES FROM 2010 TO 2020.
UM, THE AVERAGE FAMILY IS 3.1 PEOPLE.
THE AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD IS 2.69.
FAMILY IS THE FAMILY UNIT YOU'RE THINKING OF HOUSEHOLD IS WHEN TOM HAS HIS BROTHER-IN-LAW LIVING WITH HIM.
AND IT'S STILL FAMILY MEMBERS, BUT IT'S NOT THE FAMILY UNIT.
IT'S, IT IS WHEN YOU HAVE TWO PEOPLE LIVING TOGETHER THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY, THAT AREN'T SPECIFICALLY RELATED THROUGH MARRIAGE OR THROUGH BLOOD.
UM, OUR MEDIAN AGE IS 42.3 MORE FEMALE THAN MALE.
I MEAN, NOTHING, NOTHING EARTH SHATTERING IN IN ANY OF THIS DATA.
I MEAN, IT, IT IS PRETTY TYPICAL FOR EVERYBODY.
UM, THE CHART ON THE LEFT, YOU CAN SORT OF SEE THE AGE BY GENDER.
[00:20:01]
CAN SEE THE PEAKS AND THE VALLEYS.YOU CAN DEFINITELY SEE THE PEAKS.
AND I REALIZE IT'S, IT'S SMALLER, BUT YOU CAN SEE RIGHT NOW MOST OF OUR POPULATION IS BETWEEN 45 AND 60 YEARS OLD.
I MEAN THAT, AND THAT MAKES SENSE GIVEN THE AGE OF OUR HOUSING STOCK, THE AGE OF THE PEOPLE.
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE THE, THE DEVELOPMENT MOVING IN 2000, 1990, 2000, 2010.
I MEAN, SO THAT'S, PEOPLE ARE BUYING HOUSES WHEN THEY'RE IN THEIR THIRTIES OR LATE THIRTIES.
AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE AGING IN PLACE.
THEY'RE STAYING WHERE THEY LIVE.
AND NOW OUR POPULATION IS MOVING FARTHER OUT.
I JUST WONDER HOW THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO JIVE OR MATCH UP TO THE SCHOOLS.
RIGHT? OUR SCHOOL POPULATION'S GROWING.
SO WE HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF YOUNGER FAMILIES GOING TO SCHOOLS.
AND THERE'S STILL 16 YEAR OLDS.
YOU KNOW, I'M NOT POPULATING ANYMORE SCHOOLS, YOU KNOW.
AND, AND THERE'S STILL A SIGNIFICANT POPULATION.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE CHART, THERE'S STILL A SIGNIFICANT POPULATION BETWEEN 10 AND 15, 10 AND 14 AND 15 AND 19.
BUT THE UNDER FIVE AND FIVE NINE YEAR OLD IS A LOWER NUMBER.
UH, YOU KNOW, SO I MEAN, I SEE IT WITH MY CHILD.
THE CLASS BEHIND HIM, YOU SEE SOMEBODY LIKE BOARD TIME GRADUATES TO 200, RIGHT? FEED STILL GRADUATING, YOU KNOW, 2 25 OR SOMETHING AND WE'RE GRADUATING 6 50, 700 KIDS, RIGHT? AND, YOU KNOW, IT IS, YOU HAVE THE PEAK IS OBVIOUSLY OLDER, BUT THERE'S STILL A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT POPULATION THAT'S OF KID BEARING YEARS FOR LACK OF A BETTER WAY OF PUTTING IT.
UM, YOU COULD DO A GOOD JOB AT THAT, APPARENTLY
UM, THE, THE PERCENTAGE OF TOTAL POPULATION IN TERMS OF RACE, RACE REALLY IN MY MIND, PLAYS ABSOLUTELY NO PART IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT RACE THEY BELONG TO.
UM, SOMETIMES IT MIGHT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF THERE'S A CERTAIN RELIGIOUS POPULATION THAT MIGHT, LIKE, WE NOW HAVE A MOSQUE IN TOWN.
WE, YOU KNOW, WE NOW HAVE, WE HAVE A SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION THAT TALKS TO SUE HOFFMAN A LOT ABOUT PLAIN CRICKET.
NOT SAYING THAT IT IS ONE CERTAIN POPULATION, BUT YOU CAN SORT OF SEE THAT THE, SOMETIMES THE, THE LARGER ASIAN OR NATIVE AMERICAN, HAWAII, PACIFIC ISLANDER, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THE NEW ACRONYM IS FOR THAT IS, IS A LITTLE LARGER THAN, THAN SOME OF OUR NEIGHBOR MUNICIPALITIES.
UM, SOME OF THE HOUSING DETAILS, THE OCCUPIED UNITS, OBVIOUSLY THIS AND, AND THIS NUMBER DOESN'T REFLECT WHAT'S GOING TO BE HAPPENING WITH PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER, YOUR KEY STATION AND ANY OTHER APARTMENTS.
AND WE'LL GET INTO THAT WITH, WITH THE DEMOGRAPHICS AND THE HOUSING NEXT MONTH TO SEE THAT AND WHAT THE EFFECT THAT'S GONNA HAVE.
UM, OBVIOUSLY THE, UH, THE, THE HOUSING TYPE THERE AT THE BOTTOM, THE VAST MAJORITY IS ONE UNIT DETACHED, SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED.
WHEN IT SAYS ONE UNIT ATTACHED, THEY TYPICALLY MEAN TOWNHOUSES WITH THAT.
SO APARTMENTS, THE TWO APARTMENTS, OR 10 OR MORE APARTMENTS IS, IN THIS CASE, THE 10 OR MORE APARTMENTS FROM THE 2000 CENSUS OR THE 2022 DATA I HAD HERE WAS, UM, IT'S MADISON AND BINGO VILLAGE.
THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO APARTMENT BUILDINGS AT THIS POINT IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT ARE MORE THAN 10, AT LEAST, THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS.
YOU MIGHT HAVE A BUILDING HERE OR THERE THAT HAS 10 THAT ARE PROBABLY EXISTING NON-CONFORMING USES.
SO SLOWLY SWING, YEAH, IT, IT WILL DEFINITELY INCREASE.
I MEAN, AND, AND I, I DON'T REMEMBER THE NUMBER, BUT, BUT I DO GO THROUGH THAT ANALYSIS AND THE, AND THE HOUSING PLAN TO SAY, HERE'S HOW MANY MORE.
ONCE THESE TWO DEVELOPMENTS, WHICH ARE ALREADY APPROVED, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE FINAL END DEVELOPMENT.
ANYTIME SOMETHING GETS TO PRELIMINARY, I CONSIDER IT APPROVED.
CAUSE IT'S REALLY TECHNICAL DETAIL AT THAT POINT.
UM, I SAY THIS IS HOW MUCH YOU CAN EXPECT A PERCENTAGE TO CHANGE.
SO AGAIN, YEAR STRUCTURE BUILT, UM, 1996 WAS, YOU KNOW, THE AGE OF THE HOUSING, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE CHART'S A LITTLE STRANGE.
IT GOES OLDEST ON OR NEWEST ON THE LEFT, OLDEST ON THE RIGHT.
UM, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE WAS A DIP IN 2000, 2000, 2010 TO 2013.
THAT WAS THE, THAT WAS EVERYTHING IN 2008.
AND THEN IT STARTS TO PICK BACK UP.
UM, AGAIN, YOU'LL SEE IN THE, IN THE HOUSING DATA HOW IT, HOW IT'S GONE UP FROM THERE EVEN.
UM, IT'S NEVER GONNA REACH THE LEVELS THAT IT DID IN 2000, 2009 CAUSE WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE LAND AREA ANYMORE.
THE MEDIAN INCOME, THIS IS ALWAYS THE DEPRESSING ONE TO LOOK AT WHETHER OR NOT YOU NEED IT OR YOU DON'T NEED IT IF YOU KNOW YOUR NEIGHBORS ARE MAKING MORE OR LESS THAN YOU.
NOW
GARY, HOW MUCH DO YOU GET PAID TO MOW YOUR YARD?
[00:25:01]
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE THAT WE'RE FAIRLY WELL EDUCATED, GRADUATED PROFESSIONALS DEGREES AT THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE.UH, YOU REALLY HAVE ONLY 4% OF THIS POPULATION THAT'S NOT, THAT HAS NO HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION SO, OR HAS NOT COMPLETED A HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION BIRTHPLACE, MOSTLY PENNSYLVANIA.
UM, YOU KNOW, BORN OUTSIDE NON-US CITIZEN IS AN INTERESTING NUMBER.
I THINK THAT I CERTAINLY HAVEN'T COMPARED IT TO ANYTHING ELSE, BUT THAT TENDS TO BE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN THAN OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THAN GETTING INTO LAND USE THIS CHART, WHICH IS DIFFICULT TO READ BECAUSE OF THE COLOR SCHEME OF IT IS A BREAKDOWN OF OUR PROPERTY AND WHAT LAND USES WE HAVE AND HOW MUCH THE TOWNSHIP TAKES UP.
WE DON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH DETAILS OF IT.
IT'S REALLY, UH, MORE JUST IN GRAPHIC IN NATURE TO KIND OF GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THE DIFFERENT LAND USES THAT ARE OUT THERE.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS, YOU CAN SEE THE LAND USE RESIDENTIAL.
AND AGAIN, THIS IS ALL 2020 INFORMATION UPDATED TO REFLECT, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S COMING IN AND WHAT WE KNOW, LIKE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LEFT IN LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AND VACANT.
SO ALL THE WAY ON THE LEFT, IF YOU LOOK, WE'RE DOWN TO ABOUT 5% VACANT PROPERTY AT THIS POINT IN THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, THE VAST MAJORITY IS SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED AT 31.5%.
THE NUMBER I ALWAYS LIKE TO POINT OUT, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALIZE THAT THIS, REALIZE THAT IT IS THIS HIGH, BUT 30% OF OUR PROPERTY IN THE TOWNSHIP IS RESERVED FROM EVER BEING DEVELOPED.
THAT'S ONLY 5.4 FOR THE TOWNSHIP'S PORTION.
THE OPEN SPACE FOR HOA IS, IS THE LARGEST POINT AT 13.5%.
BUT YOU HAVE, I COUNT SPRING FORD SCHOOL DISTRICT AS EVEN THOUGH IT'S BUILT ON THE PROPERTY, I COUNT THAT AS OPEN SPACE.
CAUSE THE VAST MAJORITY OF IT IS OPEN SPACE AND IT WILL NEVER BE DEVELOPED AS ANYTHING PAST THAT.
I MEAN, RARELY DOES THE SCHOOL SELL THAT KIND OF PROPERTY, AT LEAST LARGE AMOUNTS.
UM, THERE'S, THERE'S SOME MONTGOMERY COUNTY PROPERTY EVEN BEFORE, EVEN AFTER PARK HOUSE IS STILL A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER, UH, 2.2%.
SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE SAY WE, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PRESERVED LAND, WE NEVER HAVE ENOUGH PRESERVED LAND, BUT WE DO HAVE A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF IT IN TOWNSHIP.
UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT NON RESIDENTIAL LAND USES, YOU CAN SEE THE BREAKDOWN.
UM, WE BROKE SHOPPING CENTER OUT FROM COMMERCIAL, JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS.
I MEAN, MONTCLAIR DELI, WHICH IS A GREAT PLACE, DOESN'T TAKE UP A LOT OF LAND, BUT PROVINCETOWN CENTER CERTAINLY TAKES UP A LOT OF LAND.
SO YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE THERE.
YOU DON'T WANNA LUMP THE TWO TOGETHER.
I THINK IT, IT IS A LITTLE BIT, UM, MISLEADING.
AND THE SAME THING WITH OFFICE VARIED IN CORPORATE CAMPUS.
I THINK KNOWING THAT 8% OVER 8% OF OUR PROPERTY IS CORPORATE CAMPUSES IS A MORE IMPORTANT FACT TO KNOW THAN JUST, OH, IT'S JUST OFFICE.
UM, SPEAKING OF THAT, I HAD A PHONE CALL TWO WEEKS AGO, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LONGER WITH UH, UH, A REAL ESTATE REPRESENTATIVE FOR, UM, QUEST.
IT LOOKS LIKE QUEST IS TRYING TO SELL THAT BUILDING AND QUEST IS NO LONGER GONNA BE IN THAT BUILDING.
QUESTION IS IN FOLDING, BUT THEY EVERBODY'S WORKING FROM HOME OR SMALL OFFICE.
SO PUT IT AWAY IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND SOMEWHERE.
YOU KNOW, HE WAS ASKING, WELL, WHAT CAN I DO HERE? WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE HERE? TYPICAL QUESTIONS I GET FROM REAL ESTATE DEVELOPERS OR REAL ESTATE DEVELOPERS ALL THE TIME.
WELL, WHAT WOULD THE TOWNSHIP LET US DO HERE? AND THAT'S ALWAYS LIKE, I'M JUST ONE AND I DON'T EVEN GET A VOTE.
SO, YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.
MY RESPONSE TO THEM IS ALWAYS BRING US SOMETHING INNOVATIVE AND WE'LL LET YOU KNOW.
BUT RIGHT NOW WHAT YOU CAN DO IS OFFICE.
AND SO KEEP IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND AS WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS, WE WANNA LOOK AND SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH THAT PROPERTY.
IF WE WANNA KEEP IT OFFICE, WE KEEP IT OFFICE.
AND WE'LL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN JUST A SECOND.
DID, DID, DID, DID THIS REAL ESTATE PERSON SHARE WITH YOU, HOW MUCH IS, IS QUEST USING THAT RIGHT NOW AT ALL? NO, QUEST IS NOT USING, QUEST HAS COMPLETELY VACATED THE BUILDING.
THERE WAS A A, THERE'S A, A, A RESIDENT OF THE TOWNSHIP WHO WORKS THERE.
HER AND I WERE HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT AND SHE SAID THAT FOR THE PAST YEAR THERE HAVE ONLY BEEN FIVE TO 10 PEOPLE THAT HAVE GONE INTO THAT BUILDING AT ALL.
EVERYBODY ELSE WAS WORKING AT HOME OR WORKING REMOTE.
THE, UH, STONE HOUSE RIGHT HERE ON BLACKWELL.
THAT WAS SOMETHING THEY WOULDN'T WANT TO DONATE TO THE TOWNSHIP.
I SUGGESTED DONATING THE WHOLE PROPERTY TO THE TOWNSHIP TO REAL ESTATE.
I THAT, BUT I THOUGHT THAT WAS A LITTLE, I GOT A BLANK STA SO YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I FIGURED TOO.
THAT'S WHY I SAID, BUT THAT STONEHOUSE WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE.
WELL, AND AND WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT COMES IN, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S WORTHWHILE TO ASK TO, TO DO A LITTLE MINOR SUBDIVISION.
WE'LL MAKE THAT THE PARK AND REC OFF.
SO RESIDENTIAL, WHEN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S WHAT I GET, AND MOST OF THIS IS ANECDOTAL,
[00:30:01]
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GETTING THE DEMAND FOR DENSITY.NOBODY, RARELY, RARELY PEOPLE, DEVELOPERS WANT TO COME IN.
YOU KNOW THIS AS WELL AS I DO WANT TO COME IN AND SAY, OH, ONE ACRE'S ZONING.
LET'S MAKE THIS CLEAN AND EASY.
UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GONNA BE A DEMAND FOR HIGHER DENSITY.
A LOT OF THE PARCEL BLUFF IN THE TOWNSHIP ARE 10 ACRES OR LESS.
UM, YOU KNOW, MANY OF THESE PARCELS ARE GONNA BE THREE ACRE PARCELS ARE GONNA SUBDIVIDE INTO THREE HOUSES.
THAT'S THE KIND OF DEVELOPMENT THAT WE CAN SEE MOVING FORWARD.
WE'RE NOT PARKHOUSE OF PARK HOUSE AND OTHER LARGE, VERY FEW DEVELOPMENTS ARE GONNA BE THE SIZE OF EVEN FOLEY ANYMORE.
WE'VE SEEN THEM ALREADY, I THINK.
ALREADY YOU SEEING THAT, RIGHT.
UM, SOME, THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS I THINK WE'VE SEEN MORE AND MORE OF THESE SMALL, VERY SMALL, IF YOU WANNA CALL DEVELOPMENTS OR WHATEVER YOU WANNA CALL IT, THEN THE ECONOMY HAS A LITTLE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT TOO.
IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, WELL, AND IT, IT IS ALSO THAT A LOT OF PRIVATE LANDOWNERS SAY, HEY, I HAVE TWO ACRES.
PAY OFF MY MORTGAGE, LIVE HERE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.
YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN, I I DON'T BEGRUDGE ANYBODY THAT IF THEY HAVE THAT KIND OF PROPERTY AND THEY WANT TO DO THAT, THAT'S GREAT.
WE STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.
THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE CAN TALK ABOUT.
IT CERTAINLY IS A PLANNING COMMISSION OR ALL THAT.
IT'S NOT AS SEXY, YOU KNOW, AS A, YOU'RE DOING YORK KEYS OR SOMETHINGS A FREE LINE.
SO, AND WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT TRANSFER DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE, I THINK WHEN THIS WAS WRITTEN, AND THIS WAS PRESENTED TO THE BOARD SUPERVISORS ABOUT A YEAR AGO, UM, IN THEIR BUDGET MEETINGS.
SO WE WERE TALKING ABOUT DURING BUDGET, BUT NOW THAT'S COME UP MAKES MORE SENSE TO BRING THIS UP WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH TRANSFER DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS WHERE PEOPLE ARE LOOKING TO DO THAT.
MAYBE NOT AS MUCH BECAUSE OF THE TWO PARCELS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.
ONE OF THEM IS DEVELOPING AS THE LOVER'S LANE PIECE JUST SEPARATELY.
BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN LOOK AT FROM A TOWNSHIP PERSPECTIVE AND SAY, IS THIS SOMETHING WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD AND SOMETHING WE WANT TO DO, UM, MORE OFTEN TO CONCENTRATE THE DEVELOPMENT, LEAVE SOME OPEN SPACES.
UM, THE HOUSING TYPE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, WE'RE GETTING THE DEMAND FOR IT.
IT'S NOT SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED AS MUCH.
I SAY IT'S NOT SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED AS MUCH ON SINGLE ACRE LOTS.
IT'S MORE SMALL LOTS, SMALL LOT LINES, YOU KNOW, CLOSE.
LOT LINES LESS DEVELOPED, LESS LARGER PARCELS, MORE SMALLER PARCELS.
THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR NOW.
UM, AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
THERE'S A, A PLANNING PHILOSOPHY, A PLANNING MOVEMENT OUT THERE CALLED MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING.
AND IT'S, IT IS A RANGE OF HOW OF HOUSE SCALE BUILDINGS WITH MULTIPLE UNITS COMPATIBLE AND SCALE AND FORM WITH DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY HOMES LOCATED IN A LOCAL NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT'S GONE UNDER THE NAME OF NEOTRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
IT'S GONE UNDER THE NAME OF, OF MANY DIFFERENT THINGS.
BUT IT IS, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT IN TERMS OF DEMAND BECAUSE IT DOES, AGAIN, IT CONCENTRATES THE DEVELOPMENTS AND LE LEAVES LARGER PIECES OF OPEN SPACE IF THAT'S WHERE THE BOARD WANTS TO GO.
UM, IT'S ALSO THE MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING.
THE IDEA IS YOU HAVE YOUR TOP END HOUSING, YOU HAVE YOUR $800,000 HOUSES, AND THEN YOU HAVE YOUR LOW INCOME HOUSES.
NOT THAT YOU REALLY HAVE ANY LOW INCOME HOUSES, SPECIFICALLY BUILT FOR LOW INCOME HERE.
UM, IT'S, IT'S SORT OF THAT MISSING MIDDLE.
IT'S, IT IS WHERE SOME PEOPLE CALL IT LITTLE A AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IT'S THE HOUSING THAT AS A 28 YEAR OLD, 32 YEAR OLD TEACHER OR PROFESSIONAL YOUNG, UNPROFESSIONAL STARTING OUT CAN COME IN AND AFFORD TO BUY BECAUSE IT'S NOT $500,800,000.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE THREE TO 500, THREE TO $400,000 RANGE.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU ONLY LIVE IN FOR A COUPLE YEARS AND THEN YOU TRADE UP SOMETHING ELSE IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.
SO THAT A LOT OF MUNICIPALITIES IN MIDDLETOWN, UM, DOLPHIN COUNTY HAS REALLY MOVED THIS FORWARD.
AND IT'S A, IT CAN BE A MIXTURE OF HOUSING IN, IN ONE DEVELOPMENT.
SOME SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SORT OF DID WITH, UM, THE CORNER OF 29 AND BLACKROCK WHERE YOU HAVE TWINS IN THE CORNER AND YOU HAVE SOME CARRIAGE HOUSES IN THERE, SOME TOWNS IN THERE WHERE IT'S ALL KIND OF MIXED TOGETHER.
IT'S NOT, IT BECOMES A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT A TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD, WHETHER THAT'S ROAR OR OVER BY WHERE TOM, BOB AND I LIVE ON THAT SIDE OF TOWN, YOU CAN GET A TWIN, A SINGLE, A TWIN, A TWIN TWIN.
IT'S BECAUSE IT'S DEVELOPED OVER TIME.
PLANNERS LIKE TO MAKE THOSE THINGS HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE.
IT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T EVOLVE A SUBDIVISION ANYMORE.
IT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT WAY.
BUT IT BECOMES THE TRADITIONAL HOUSING AND, AND THAT'S JUST SOME OF THE DEMAND FOR HOUSING TYPE THAT WE'RE SEEING.
UM, I THINK WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE SEEING IN THE FUTURE AND WHAT WE'RE GETTING ASKED FOR A LOT IS CONVERSION OF OFFICE BUILDINGS.
UH, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY PHONE
[00:35:01]
CALLS I'VE HAD ABOUT OFFICE BUILDINGS IN, IN THE PROVINCE CORPORATE CENTER BECAUSE TWO OR THREE OF THEM ARE SITTING VACANT.OBVIOUSLY WHEN YOU OWN THAT BUILDING, YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO SIT ON SOMETHING VACANT.
YOU WANT TO CONVERT IT TO SOMETHING.
THE EASIEST THING TO CONVERT IT TO IS APARTMENTS.
AND I'VE GENERALLY SAID, LOOK, I DON'T THINK THE BOARD'S LOOKING FOR THAT AT THIS POINT, BUT IT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE AWARE OF AND COGNIZANT THAT PEOPLE WANT TO DO BECAUSE, AND WE'LL GET TO THIS A LITTLE BIT IN OFFICE, WHEN YOU HAVE OFFICE SPACE AND THEN YOU LOOK AT KING OF PR AND YOU LOOK AT KAJA AND, AND THEY HAVE OFFICE SPACE AVAILABLE.
CONIA HOPKINS GOTTA FILL UP BEFORE KING OF PRUSSIA FILLS UP KING OF, WELL, I GUESS CONHI, KING OF PRUSSIA, PROBABLY ABOUT THE SAME.
MAYBE NICOLE, YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT YOU KNOW, KING OF PRUSSIA HAS GOTTA FILL UP BEFORE WE'RE EVER GONNA SEE OFFICE COME OUT HERE AGAIN.
IT, IT IS JUST NOT GONNA HAPPEN UNLESS IT'S LOWER COST OFFICE BUILDING AND BY THE TIME OFFICE COMES BACK OUT HERE, OUR OFFICE BUILDINGS AREN'T GONNA BE CLASS A ANYMORE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, SO THOSE, THAT'S THE TYPE OF OFFICE PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR AND WE'RE NOT, WE HAVE NO DEMAND FOR THAT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THERE'S NO DEMAND FOR OFFICE EXPANSION.
SO THE LONG TERM OF THAT IS WE HAVE EMPTY OFFICE BUILDINGS SITTING THERE.
TYPICALLY THIS TOWNSHIP HAS SAID, HEY, WE DON'T WANT EMPTY STUFF.
WE DON'T WANT STUFF WE CAN DISREPAIR.
IF YOU WANNA DEVELOP IT, HEY, JUST GIVE US AN IDEA.
MY THINKING IS A LITTLE BIT MORE LIKE, HEY, LET'S BE PATIENT WITH IT AND DO A LAND USE THAT WE REALLY THINK BENEFITS THE TOWNSHIP.
WHAT IS, UH, HAVE YOU HEARD, I, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN MAYBE A COUPLE YEARS.
WHAT, WHAT'S SS E I DOING? ARE THEY, ARE THEY, ARE THEY TALKING TO US AT ALL? YES.
I, I'VE HAD A MEETING WITH THEM IN THE LAST SIX WEEKS.
THEY, THEY'RE BUILDING IS BUILDING BACK UP.
THEY'RE STILL LOOKING AT DOING MORE OFFICE CAMPUS DEVELOPMENT THERE.
THEY'RE IN FLUX I THINK, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA BE WHAT WE'VE SEEN ON THEIR MASTER PLAN, BUT THEY STILL WANT TO DO MORE DEVELOPMENT.
THEY STILL HAVE TO DO THAT ROAD.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WANT SPECIFICALLY.
I DON'T, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THEM.
I THINK THAT THEY WOULD KICK THAT BUCKET DOWN THE ROAD A LITTLE BIT TO USE A BAD ANALOGY, UM, IF THEY COULD.
BUT WE'RE STILL THERE TO DEVELOP THE NEXT STEP OF THE PROCESS FOR THAT IS TO ENGINEER THAT ROAD.
SO THEY STILL HAVE THAT ROAD BE PART OF THEIR CAMPUS IN THEIR PLANNING.
THE QUESTION IS, THE NEXT BUILDING, THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE NEXT BUILDING AND WHERE THE NEXT BUILDING GOES AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE KIND OF PUTTING THAT CART, PUTTING THAT HORSE FIRST VERSUS THE OTHER ONE.
AND WE SORT OF DIALED THE BACK OF THE MEETING AND SAID, NO, NO, NO, YOU KNOW, YOU STILL HAVE TO ENGINEER THIS ROAD AND SHOW US WHERE THIS ROAD'S GOING AND WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL LOOKING AND THIS LONG RANGE FOR THEM AT THE ABANDONMENT OF OPERATION AND ROAD AND USING REBA ROAD AS THE ALTERNATE.
UM, I, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE'RE, I THINK AT THE END OF THE LAST CYCLE OF THEM GOING THROUGH DEVELOPMENT AND COMING IN WITH A TENTATIVE TO PLAN FOR REBA ROAD, I THINK WE GOT TO A GOOD SPOT WHERE WE ALL SORT OF KNEW WHERE WE WERE GOING.
COVID HIT IT, TURNED IT ON ITS HEAD A LITTLE BIT.
NOW THEY'RE GETTING PEOPLE SORT OF BACK IN THE BUILDING.
WE'RE TRYING TO HOLD THEM TO THAT SAME PATH.
THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO VEER FROM IT A LITTLE BIT, BUT I THINK THEY SWITCH ENGINEER FIRMS. GREG AVENGER'S NOT INVOLVED ANYMORE.
SO I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A CYCLE OF NEW PEOPLE COMING IN AND GETTING, UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE TOWNSHIP'S REQUIRING, WHAT THE TOWNSHIP MEANS.
SO, SO A LOT MORE CARS THERE UP TO THE LAST FIVE FEW WEEKS.
YEAH, THEY'RE, THEY, THEY, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE PEOPLE BACK IN THE BUILDING AND, UM, THE THE NEW BUILDING.
AND OUR MAIN ISSUE IS, OUR MAIN ISSUE RIGHT NOW IS, LOOK, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DO REAVER ROAD, YOU NEED TO, IF YOU DON'T WANNA DO THE EXTENSION OF RE ROAD, YOU NEED TO DO, YOU NEED TO IMPROVE UPPER INDIAN HEAD ROAD BECAUSE RESIDENTS LIKE GILLEY HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A CONSTRUCTION ENTRANCE FOR TOO LONG.
AND THAT ROAD NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED TO THE LEVEL.
IT SHOULD BE IMPROVED TO THAT IF THIS WAS JUST A NORMAL DEVELOPMENT GOING FORWARD, YOU WOULD'VE HAD TO DO A LONG TIME AGO.
AND THAT'S THE PUSHBACK A LITTLE BIT, HEY, WE DON'T WANNA DO THAT AND WE WANT TO WAIT ON REAVER ROAD A LITTLE BIT.
SO OUR PUSHBACK IS, WELL, YOU'RE DOING ONE OR THE OTHER, LET'S MOVE SOMETHING FORWARD.
IT'S, IT WAS A VERY, THE MEETING WAS VERY GENERAL IN NATURE AND THERE'S A LOT MORE ON THERE TO-DO LIST THAN THERE IS ON OURS.
WHAT'S THE, WHAT DO YOU THINK THEIR TIMEFRAME IS? OH, I, I COULDN'T EVEN TELL YOU.
SO YOU CAN TELL YOU, I HAD A MEETING WITH, WITH THAT GREG GER WAS AT PROBABLY 18 MONTHS BEFORE THAT MEETING.
AND HIS, AT THE TIME HE SAID, I DON'T KNOW WHEN I'M EVER GONNA GET PEOPLE BACK IN MY OFFICE.
[00:40:01]
COMES BACK AND SAYS, PEOPLE ARE BACK IN.I NEED TO START TALKING ABOUT MY NEXT BUILDING.
DO YOU THINK THEY WERE BACK IN? I DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE BACK IN HAPPENED JUST RECENTLY.
IT'S, THEY ALSO TURNED OVER A LOT OF POSITIONS, MID-LEVEL POSITION.
AND THEY'RE REQUIRED PEOPLE TO BE THERE.
SO I MEAN OBVIOUSLY IT WAS, YOU KNOW, IT WAS, UH, TENACIOUS AT TIMES IN THE BEGINNING BECAUSE THE MASTER PLAN SORT OF WAS ALWAYS IN FLU.
BUT AS JUST SAID, IT'S PROBABLY NOW THEY'RE REDEFINING IT.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, A MASTER PLAN IS LIKE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
IT'S NOT SET RULES OF EXACTLY WHERE A BUILDING'S GOING, EXACTLY HOW BIG A BUILDING'S GONNA BE.
A MASTER PLAN SHOULD BE FLEXIBLE TO ADAPT TO THE MARKET CONDITIONS AT THE TIME, JUST LIKE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SHOULD BE FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THAT I CAN'T PREDICT WHERE THE MARKET'S GONNA BE IN 10 YEARS.
JUST LIKE WHEN I WROTE THE PLAN IN 2008, I COULD NOT HAVE PREDICTED THE MARKET DOWNTURN IN 2008.
THAT HAPPENED PROBABLY TWO MONTHS AFTER WE, WE PUBLISHED THE REPORT OR WHAT HAPPENED WITH COVID OR WITH ANY OF IT.
THERE, THERE'S NO WAY TO PREDICT ANY OF THAT.
SO ALL OF THESE DOCUMENTS TRY TO REMAIN SOMEWHAT FLEXIBLE.
THE CONDITION WE HAVE WITH THE SCI IS KEEPING THEM TO THE PROMISES THEY'VE MADE AND NOT HAVE A PARKING LOT THAT'S TEMPORARY FOR 15 YEARS, WHICH WAS THE PREVIOUS CONDITION THAT WE WENT UNDER, OR TO HAVE A STREETLIGHT AT BLACKROCK AND GREEN STREET, UPPER GREEN, UPPER INDIAN HEAD ROAD THAT THEY SAID, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA PUT THAT IN INTO THE NEXT PHASE, THE NEXT PHASE, THE NEXT PHASE.
WE, WE'VE HAD TO HOLD THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE A LITTLE BIT AS THEY KNOW, THESE ARE THE THINGS YOU NEED TO DO NOW TO ACCURATELY ENCAPSULATE THE IMPACT YOU HAVE ON YOUR DEVELOPMENT TODAY.
SO, UM, SPEAKING OF OUR LAND USE AND OFFICE PARKS, UM, AGAIN, DEMAND, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF DEMAND FOR, FOR INDIVIDUAL OFFICE BUILDINGS.
YOU CAN SEE A LOT OF SMALLER BUSINESSES KIND OF USING SOME OFFICE BUILDINGS, SMALLER OFFICE BUILDINGS, UM, BUT SIGNIFICANT AREA IN THE TOWNSHIP IS LEFT AS, AS OFFICE BASED.
AND THAT'S SPECIFICALLY THE NORTH OF MARCO ROAD AREA.
THAT, THAT, THAT WHAT, WHAT'S PFIZER'S THEY KNOW WHAT PFIZER'S IS.
UH, WHAT, HOW MUCH ARE THEY IN THAT BUILDING NOWADAYS? I, I'M NOT SURE.
I, I DON'T THINK VERY MUCH, BUT I, AND I THINK THEY'VE, DOW HAS COME IN THERE.
THEY'VE ALSO, THERE'S ONE OFFICE BUILDING THAT THEY'VE PUT A FLOOR TOWARDS LONG AND FOSTER AND I THINK THERE'S ANOTHER REAL ESTATE FIRM MAYBE FOR DOW RESEARCH HAS BEEN THERE PRETTY LONG.
DOW'S BEEN THERE QUITE A WHILE AND WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THEM.
PFIZER, THE LAST THING I HEARD ABOUT PFIZER WAS THAT THEY SOLD THE PROPERTY AND THEY LEASED BACK THEIR OFFICE SPACE.
NOW I, I DID HEAR LIKE THREE MONTHS AGO, FOUR MONTHS AGO, THAT THEY SOLD IT, THAT WHOEVER OWNED IT SOLD IT AND SOMEONE KNEW IT WAS COMING IN, BUYING IT.
AND THAT PROVED TO BE COMPLETELY FALSE.
UM, SO AGAIN, FIRST OF ALL, WITH A LOT OF THESE LARGE LANDOWNER WE'RE KIND OF THE LAST TO KNOW BECAUSE IT, IT BECOMES PLUG AND PLAY.
YOU KNOW, THAT BUILDING GOES IN, THE BUILDING GOES OUT.
I THINK MY POINT ASKING THE QUESTION IS, I DON'T THINK PFIZER HAS ANY FUTURE IN THAT BUILDING AT ALL.
I DON'T THINK THEY SEE THEMSELVES IN THAT BUILDING.
THAT'S PROBABLY WHY THEY SOLD IT.
YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T SEE THEMSELVES EVER GROWING BACK IN THERE.
WHATEVER'S IN THERE NOW, IF ANYTHING, HOW MUCH IS IN THERE IS PROBABLY NOT GONNA BE THERE FOREVER.
I, I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO, UM, KEEP AN EYE ON US.
AND THEN KEEP A MENTAL NOTE OF NOT NECESSARILY WHAT WE SHOULD DO TODAY, BUT WHAT HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE IF PFIZER GOES AWAY.
LIKE I, I, UNFORTUNATELY, I, I THINK THAT THE DAYS OF THE LARGE CAMPUS OFFICE CAMPUS ARE BEHIND US.
I JUST DON'T SEE THOSE AS BEING A PREFER A PREFERRED LAND USE AND HOW SOMEONE'S GOING TO DEVELOP ANYMORE.
AS MUCH AS I LIKE HAVING THE CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS WITH GLAXOSMITHKLINE AND PFIZER AND AT ONE POINT QUEST, I JUST DON'T SEE THAT SOMEBODY'S GONNA COME ROLLING IN HERE AND SAY, OKAY, THIS IS WHERE WE'RE PUTTING OUR CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS ANYMORE.
NOW I'M NOT A REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONAL.
NIKKI PROBABLY KNOWS A LOT BETTER THAN I DO ABOUT HOW THOSE MARKETS TEND TO FLUCTUATE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT IT'S, IT, I JUST DON'T SEE, I LOOK AT, WHEN I LOOK
[00:45:01]
AT OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, YOU DON'T SEE OFFICE BUILDINGS.YOU DON'T SEE BIG CORPORATE DEVELOPMENT HAPPENING IN CORPORATE CAMPUSES.
I MEAN, THERE'S ONE IN HORTON, IS IT HORSHAM? IT'S RIGHT OFF THE TURNPIKE.
THERE WAS A STATE FARM BUILDING THAT NOW IS, IT IS BEING CONVERTED.
IT WAS A HUGE STATE FARM CORPORATE CAMPUS THAT'S BEING CONVERTED TO CONDOS AND TOWNHOUSES AND ONE TOLD LOT.
SO I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THESE THINGS ARE.
BUT THAT'S SOMETHING MORE, CERTAINLY TO YOUR POINT, WE NEED TO KEEP AN EYE ON REALLY CORRECT.
AND WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD ADDRESS.
I THINK, I THINK THAT PROPERTY ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, THE PFIZER PIECE IS JUST, YOU KNOW, THEY CONTROLS SO MUCH OF THAT WOODED AREA DOWN TO THE RIVER IS WELL, AND, AND I'VE HAD, WHEN, WHEN PFIZER WENT FOR SALE FOR THE FIRST TIME, OR FOR THE ONLY TIME I KNOW OF, I HAD DEVELOPERS CALLING ME.
I HAD REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS CALLING ME SAYING, HEY, CAN I DO THIS ON THE PROPERTY? HEY, CAN I DO THAT ON THE PROPERTY? AND YOU KNOW, IT, IT RAN THE GAMUT FROM CAN I PUT UP APARTMENTS ON THE, ON THE PROPERTY? UM, CAN I PUT UP AN AMAZON WAREHOUSE ON THE PROPERTY? AND, AND MY RESPONSE IS, NONE OF THAT'S IN ZONING.
IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING INNOVATIVE AND YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU CONTROL THE PROPERTY, YOU CAN CERTAINLY BRING IT TO US.
WE'LL RUN YOU THROUGH THE PROCESS JUST LIKE I DO WITH EVERY OTHER, FROM AN INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNER TO A LARGE CORPORATE OFFICE BUILDING.
BUT I ALSO SAID, I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IS VERY USED TO LOOKING AT A VERY LARGE OFFICE CAMPUS THERE AND TO PUT SOMETHING ELSE THERE IS GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE.
WELL, TO THAT, TO THAT POINT, JEFF, IS IT NOT TOO EARLY TO ADDRESS THAT SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE A PARK HOUSE SITUATION 10 YEARS FROM NOW? IT'S ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT TIME TO, TO ADDRESS THAT.
IT'S ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT TIME TO ADDRESS IT.
AND HOW DO, HOW IS THAT DONE? WELL IN THIS PLAN? IN THIS PLAN? AND, AND YOU, YOU, YOU'RE NOT CHANGE, THIS PLAN IS NOT CHANGING ZONING.
IT'S NOT CHANGING ZONING AT ALL.
BUT YOU, YOU MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT YOU, IN THIS, IN THIS CASE, YOU MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT IF, YOU KNOW, IF PFIZER OR ANY OF THE OTHER OFFICE DEVELOPMENTS, EITHER OTHER OFFICE CAMPUS WERE TO DEVELOP, WERE TO REDEVELOP IN ANY MANNER THAT WAS NOT AN OFFICE.
WE SUGGEST X TYPE OF HOUSING OR WE SUGGEST THAT THE PROPERTY ALWAYS REMAINED THE SAME.
THAT THE, THAT THE OPEN SPACE PERCENTAGE CURRENTLY THERE NOW REMAINS THE OPEN SPACE THAT'S THERE IN THE FUTURE.
SOMETHING, SOMETHING THAT, I MEAN, I CAN'T THINK OF AN EXACT RECOMMENDATION.
I MEAN WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THAT AS WE DO THIS, RIGHT? THAT WE DON'T WANT A PARKHOUSE SITUATION BECAUSE WE KICKED THE STONE DOWN THE ROAD AND NOW WE'RE IN THAT SITUATION.
WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY TO THE FUTURE, PFIZER, THE FUTURE OWNER, THAT YOU CAN'T DEVELOP THAT RIVER AREA OR WHATEVER, WHATEVER.
UP TO A CERTAIN, UP TO A CERTAIN POINT.
I THINK WE'RE AT THE SAME PAGE.
I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT MIGHT AFFECT, AND THIS IS REALLY LONG TERM GROWTH, BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S JUST POLITICS.
BUT THEY, EVERYBODY'S TALKING ABOUT WE NEED TO BRING MORE MANUFACTURING BACK TO AMERICA RATHER THAN EVERYTHING GOING OVER TO CHINA SUPPORTING.
AND THOSE BIG BUILDINGS WOULD BE JUST THE PERFECT THING FOR, SO, BUT HERE AGAIN, HOW QUICK IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN? THAT MIGHT BE 10 YEARS OUT, 15 YEARS OUT.
AND, AND, AND, AND THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT.
THAT'S SOMETHING WHEN WE GET TO THE LAND USE SUGGESTION.
BUT I THINK WE GOTTA THINK ABOUT THAT AND SAY, OKAY, WE NEED TO CONTROL THAT NOW SO WE DON'T HAVE A PARKHOUSE SITUATION.
SO WE DON'T, WE'RE NOT SITTING HERE 10 YEARS FROM NOW SAYING, OH MY GOD, THESE GUYS, YEAH, MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS BECAUSE THESE GUYS NOW ARE GONNA PUT IN A, YOU KNOW, 50 UNIT CONDO UNIT.
AND I THINK A LOT OF THOSE LIKE THE HEAVY MANUFACTURING ARE MOVING AWAY FROM THIS AREA.
CAUSE THERE'S LESS LAND THAT'S ALLOWING THEM AS A HEAVY INDUSTRIAL USE TO DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.
SO THEY'RE GOING SOMEWHERE LIKE ARIZONA OR TEXAS WHERE IT'S JUST SO MUCH MORE EXPANSIVE AREA.
WELL, THERE ARE WAYS OF DEFINING DIRTY BUSINESSES.
OH, DIFFERENT KIND OF DIRTY, SORRY.
UM, AND THEN LOOK, WHEN I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE, WITH THE, THE AGENT FOR QUEST, YOU KNOW, HE, HE'S LIKE, WELL WHAT DO YOU THINK IS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ALWAYS PROBING AND TRYING TO FOLK CAN GET ME TO SAY SOMETHING THAT THOSE COMMERCIAL AGENTS YEAH.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, HE'S TRYING TO GET ME TO SAY THINGS LIKE, OH YEAH, WE COULD DO THAT.
AND, AND I, HE, HE'S LIKE, WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE THE BEST LAND USE IS FOR THERE? AND I'M LIKE, LET'S BE REALISTIC.
THE BEST LAND USE TO PUT THERE, BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT THERE OFF THE FREEWAY AND YOU'RE RIGHT THERE WITH TWO STREET, WITH TWO TRAFFIC LIGHTS IS AN AMAZON WAREHOUSE.
I SAID, BUT THAT'S THE LAST THING WE WANNA SEE HERE.
WE DON'T WANNA SEE AN AMAZON WAREHOUSE RIGHT NEXT TO OUR PARK.
[00:50:01]
YOU WANT A AWA I WALL PARK? I'M STILL, I'M STILL PULLING FOR THAT.SHE, SHE, SHE, NO, SHE, SORRY.
HOW MUCH WE GOT HERE JEFF? JUST A COUPLE MORE.
JUST A COUPLE MORE WE'LL RUN THROUGH QUICKLY.
SPEAKING OF INDUSTRIAL AS, AS NICOLE JUST DID, YOU KNOW THAT'S ANOTHER LAND AREA THAT WE HAVE A GOOD AMOUNT OF PROPERTY.
IF YOU LOOK SOUTH OF EGYPT ROAD ON THE ZONING MAP.
AND I, I SHOULD HAVE HAD A ZONING MAP UP HERE TO SHOW YOU THERE'S PURPLE AND THERE'S DARK PURPLE.
THAT'S ONE OF THOSE LAND AREAS THAT THERE'S STILL SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF SPACE THAT IF PEOPLE WANNA DEVELOP, THEY CAN, IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF WHO OWNS IT AND HOW THEY CAN DO THAT.
SOMETHING WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT, SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE AWARE OF.
I'VE HAD SOME PEOPLE ASK, HEY, CAN I, YOU KNOW, CAN I PUT HOUSES HERE ON THIS INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY? ALL OF THIS AT THE END OF THE DAY BOILS DOWN TO WHAT LAND DO YOU WANNA HAVE AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE TO BUILD ON AND WHAT DO YOU NOT WANNA HAVE AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE TO BUILD ON? AND AND THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT IF WE PUT IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT'S GONNA HAPPEN BECAUSE THIS TOWNSHIP IS STILL GROWING.
WE MAY NOT HAVE A LOT OF PROPERTY, BUT THIS TOWNSHIP IS STILL GONNA GROW AND THIS TOWNSHIP'S STILL GOING TO DEVELOP OVER TIME.
IT'S JUST A LOT OF THE LAND USES ARE GONNA BE FITTING A BIGGER DEVELOPMENT INTO SOMETHING SMALLER.
IT'S GONNA TAKE MORE RELIEF, IT'S GONNA TAKE MORE DISCUSSION, IT'S GONNA TAKE CHANGES TO ZONING BOARDS.
I WANNA GET AHEAD OF THOSE THINGS TO SAY WE JUST DON'T WANT THESE THINGS HERE OR WE DO WANT THESE THINGS FOCUSED HERE LIKE RICH PIKE.
UM, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT RETAIL, UM, AND ANDRIDGE PIKE, THAT'S OUR MAIN RETAIL CORRIDOR.
WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE, THE RETAIL NOW WHERE LOWE'S AND, AND HOME DEPOT OR, UH, LOWE'S AND, AND TARGET IS, AND WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT EVENTUALLY WITH LAND USE AND HOW THAT DEVELOPS.
DOES THAT BECOME, DOES THAT STAY A HYBRID INDUSTRIAL RETAIL CENTER? DOES IT BECOME, YOU KNOW, I MEAN IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT'S RETAIL, UM, ENTERTAINMENT AND, AND INDUSTRIAL, THOSE THREE LAND USES REALLY AREN'T COMPATIBLE.
I MEAN YOU TEND TO GET A LOT OF BIG TRUCKS, BUT THEN YOU'RE RUNNING A LOT OF KIDS IN AND OUT OF BOUNCE.
YOU WE'RE NOT BOUNCE YOU DOWN THERE ANYMORE.
ARNOLDS GOLDFISH SCHOOL AND ARNOLDS.
AND, AND NOW THIS, WE'VE BEEN TOLD THIS WEEK THAT THE, THE, THE PEOPLE WHO OWN ARNOLDS ARE NOW GOING TO BE CONVERTING THE REGAL THEATER.
I WAS GONNA SAY THEY, THAT WAS IN MONTCO TODAY.
THEY US THEY DO FROM A A PER, THEY DON'T HAVE COME TO YOU.
THEY COME TO THE TOWNSHIP FOR A PERMITTING STANDPOINT.
THEY'RE NOT CHANGING THE BUILDING SHAPE AT ALL.
SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME TO PLANNING COMMISSION? NO.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME TO, HERE'S WHAT WE PLAN TO DO WITH THIS BUILDING.
NO, BECAUSE WANT A TOUR, WE WANT, I, I, MY BUILDING INSPECTOR WAS THERE.
HE SAID IT'S PRETTY GROSS IN THERE RIGHT NOW.
SO YOU MAY WANNA WAIT ON THAT A LITTLE BIT.
BUT, UM, THEY, YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS THERE, AND I'VE BEEN SUGGESTING FOR YEARS, AND I'VE BEEN TELLING BRAD, MACY THIS, WE NEED TO CONVERT THAT AND MOVE AWAY FROM INDUSTRIAL NOW BECAUSE FEDEX IS DOWN THERE.
I THINK I, I THINK MY, MY AND DREAMS FURTHER DOWN, BUT, YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THAT WORK WITH TRUCKING AND ENTERTAINMENT AND TRAFFIC AND SHOPPING? HOW DOES IT WORK ON BRIDGE PIKE? YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERY ONE OF THOSE LITTLE PARCELS DEVELOP AND HAVE 17 DRIVEWAYS ON THERE.
I MEAN THAT YOU CAN'T DEVELOP THAT WAY AND HAVE IT BE A SAFE ENVIRONMENT AND HAVE IT BE WELL DEVELOPED.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOWNSHIP, IF YOU LOOK AT THAT AREA OF THE TOWNSHIP, THERE'S SOME EYES DOORS UP THERE.
I MEAN, I'M NOT GONNA PULL ANY PUNCHES, BUT I'M PROBABLY NOT MAKING PEOPLES HAPPY.
BUT THERE'S SOME AREAS YOU WANNA SEE REDEVELOPED THAT WE HAD JUST THE ISSUE WITH, UM, THE, THE WAREHOUSING AND, UM, YOU KNOW, RIGHT THERE NEXT TO THE, THE, UH, THE SELF STORAGE PLACE, SELF STORAGE, WHATEVER.
THEY, THEIR HEARING IS ON HOLD.
THEY, THEY PUT THEIR HEARING ON HOLD AND THEY HAVEN'T COME BACK FOR A SECOND HALF YET.
WHAT, WHAT KICKSTARTS REDEVELOP LONGBRIDGE PIKE.
I MEAN, IT, DOES IT BECOME A REFLECTION OF WHAT'S OVER IN LIMERICK? I DON'T THINK THAT'S ANYTHING REALLY TO WRITE HOME ABOUT, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT HORRIBLE.
YOU CAN DO YOU LET THE BUILDINGS CONVERT YOU? SAME THING WITH YOUR, HE'S AN EXCUSE.
HOW IS THAT PROGRESSING? THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE'LL TALK ABOUT WITH RETAIL AND WHEN WE GET INTO LAND USE.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THIS IS A VERY, VERY QUICK OVERVIEW AND YOU SEND THIS TO YEAH, I DON'T WANT YOU.
UM, SO THE NEXT ADOPTIONS, I THINK WHAT WE'LL DO, I'LL GET YOU THE, THE, THE LANGUAGE ABOUT THE DEMOGRAPHICS, WHICH INCLUDES MORE DETAIL.
IT INCLUDES SOME BREAKDOWN OF HOME OWNERSHIP VERSUS RENTAL OWNERSHIP VERSUS RENTAL, YOU KNOW, AGE OF HOUSING.
IT'S GOT A LOT MORE SPECIFICS IN THERE.
THIS IS JUST A REALLY HIGH OVERVIEW.
UM, WE'LL, I'LL FINALIZE MY WRITING OF THE HOUSING PLAN.
I'LL GET THAT OUT TO YOU AND WE'LL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT AT THE NEXT ONE.
AND THAT WILL, I THINK THAT WILL GUIDE SOME OF THE LAND USE AND, UH, AND HOW WE APPROACH THE LAND USE PLAN AND WHAT WE DO WITH THE LAND USE PLAN.
AND THEN LAND USE PLAN IS GONNA BE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
[00:55:01]
EMPTY OFFICE BUILDINGS? WHAT DO WE DO WITH THE, WITH THE VACANT COMMERCIAL SPACE? UM, AND THEN AT THAT POINT WE'LL DETERMINE SOME ACTION ITEMS AND THOSE BECOME THE PRIORITY FOR US TO WORK ON OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS.YOU SEE THIS HAPPENING IN THE, OUR SECOND MONTHLY MEETING FOR RIGHT NOW? YES.
ONLY BECAUSE, WELL, TO HAVE A MEETING AUGUST 2ND, WE'D HAVE TO FLIP EVERYTHING OVER AND IT WOULD BE IN TWO WEEKS.
I'D RATHER WAIT IN THE MIDDLE OF AUGUST TO GET SOME MORE INFORMATION OUT TO YOU TO REFINE MY WRITING OF THE HOUSING PLAN TO MAKE SURE I'M NOT OFF IN LEFT FIELD ABOUT SOME THINGS.
AND THEN ARE YOU SEEING ANYTHING FOR AUGUST 2ND AT THIS POINT? NO, I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING FOR AUGUST 2ND.
SO WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD TAKE A MOTION ON YES, WE SHOULD.
THAT MEETING, MY RECOMMENDATION IS TO CANCEL THAT MEETING, TO HAVE THE SECOND MEETING IN AUGUST.
UM, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE TO SEE AT THAT MEETING WHAT'S HAPPENING FOR SEPTEMBER.
I DON'T ANTICIPATE HAVING ANYTHING IN SEPTEMBER BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THEY WOULD HAVE TO GET ME THE INFORMATION FROM A PLANNED REVISION STANDPOINT IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS TO MAKE IT FAIR FOR ANTHONY AND JEN TO RE-REVIEW IT, DEPENDING ON THE DEVELOPMENT.
I MEAN, THE HANER ROAD SUBDIVISION, BUT TWO SUBDIVISION SHOULDN'T TAKE LONG, BUT I GET BE FOR THEIR WORKLOAD.
THAT'S SOMETHING WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIT.
AND AGAIN, WE CAN ALSO FIT THAT AT THE BEGINNING OF A MEETING AND STILL HAVE A DISCUSSION.
THIS DISCUSSION IS PROBABLY LONGER THAN IT WOULD BE MOST NIGHTS.
WE MIGHT GET SOME DEEP PHILOSOPHICAL STUFF ABOUT LAND USE, BUT THIS IS GONNA BE PROBABLY THE LONGEST BECAUSE IT'S REALLY THE INTRODUCTION TO IT.
JEFF, WHAT'S YOUR TIMELINE THAT YOU THINK WE'RE GONNA BE READY TO PASS THIS ON? RICK? I I, I'M THINKING IF ALL GOES RIGHT, MAYBE OCTOBER, NOVEMBER TO, TO SORT OF START THE PROCESS FOR ADOPTION.
THE ADOPTION PROCESS IS YOU GIVE IT YOUR BLESSING.
I TAKE IT, INTRODUCE IT TO THE BOARD, TELL THE BOARD I'M GOING TO ADVERTISE IT.
I'M GONNA ADVERTISE A HEARING AND I'M GONNA SEND IT AROUND.
EVERY NEIGHBORING MUNICIPALITY HAS 30 DAYS TO LOOK AT IT, INCLUDING MONTGOMERY COUNTY AND CHESTER COUNTY, BECAUSE THEY'RE BORDERING HAS 30 DAYS TO LOOK AT IT, TO MAKE COMMENT AND TO, UM, OFFER ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR CHANGES.
SOMETIMES THAT MEANS SITTING DOWN WITH MONTGOMERY COUNTY TO GO THROUGH THE DETAILS WITH THEM.
IT DEPENDS ON THE PLAN, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT OUR ACTION ITEMS ARE AND WHAT OUR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE.
UM, SO THAT MIGHT PUT A LITTLE BIT OF A LENGTHIER PORTION ON IT.
WE'RE ALSO GETTING INTO BUDGET SEASON TOWARDS THE END OF THE YEAR.
REALISTICALLY, I WANNA HAVE THE PLAN DRAFTED THIS YEAR, BUT I'M KIND OF THINKING THAT WE MAY END UP NOT ADOPTING IT UNTIL THE FIRST PART OF NEXT YEAR.
I MEAN, COULD WE PUSH IT? COULD WE, I COULD PROBABLY PUT THE WHOLE THING TOGETHER AND HAVE A COPY OF IT ALL TO YOU.
GET ANTHONY GIMME HIS PART, GET JEN TO GIMME HER PART BY SEPTEMBER.
BUT I DON'T WANNA RUSH IT THAT MUCH.
I DON'T WANT TO LET THIS LINGER FOR ANOTHER YEAR.
JEFF, EVER SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THIS BOARD NOW FOR ALMOST SEVEN YEARS, SIX YEARS, WHATEVER, IT'S, BUT, AND THIS PLAN, I'M ALWAYS CONCERNED THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS NEVER INCLUDED.
ARE THEY INVITED TO GIVE INPUT? THEY ARE, THEY ARE GIVEN THE PLAN AFTER THE WHEN AFTER IT'S WRITTEN.
AND WE CAN CERTAINLY REACH OUT TO THEM AND HAVE THEM COME INTO A MEETING WITH US PRIOR TO THAT.
YOU KNOW, WE ALL, UH, IF YOU GOT GET YOUR NEW TAX BILL, WE ALL GET OUR TAX.
UM, I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WHEN WE DOING THESE COMPREHENSIVE PLANS AND THESE BIG PLANS LIKE, LIKE, LIKE, UH, UH, PARKHOUSE AND THAT THE SCHOOL BOARDS NEVER INVOLVED OUR SCHOOL, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S NOT INVOLVED.
MAYBE THEY'RE SAYING 90% OF THE BUILDINGS ARE IN UPPER PROFITS.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE GIVEN EVERY PLAN.
I MEAN, I DO AND, AND, AND THEY ARE INVITED TO ANY MEETING THEY WANT TO COME TO.
UM, AND I CAN CERTAINLY REACH OUT TO THEM AGAIN AND SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, THE PLAINTIFF COMMISSION WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOU OUT TO TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS.
I CAN'T SAY THEY'LL ACCEPT THE INVITATION.
THEY HAVE NOT ACCEPTED ANY INVITATION.
I KNOW THEY HAVE A YEARLY MEETING.
I DON'T KNOW WHEN IT WAS OR WHEN IT WILL BE, BUT THEY HAVE A YEARLY MEETING WITH SELECT SUPERVISORS.
THEY CAN'T HAVE ALL OF THEM THERE BECAUSE IT BECOMES A PUBLIC MEETING.
BUT THEY HAVE A MEETING WITH SITE WITH SOME OF THE SUPERVISORS AND THEY TALK ABOUT DEVELOPMENT.
AND, UM, BUT IT IS, YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS COMPILE SOMETHING FOR TIM TO SAY, HERE'S WHAT'S QUEUED UP AND HERE'S WHAT'S SORT OF IN THE FUTURE.
UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THEY WANT TO BE INVOLVED.
AND IT JUST, THAT CONCERNS ME.
THAT'S PART OF MY CONCERN THAT JUST, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T SEEM TO, THAT SCHOOL BOARD ALWAYS SEEMS TO RUN THEIR OWN LITTLE KINGDOM.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IT CONCERNS ME THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE FUTURE OF THIS TOWNSHIP AND WHAT KIND OF BUILDING, WHAT KIND OF POPULATION GROWTH WE'RE GONNA HAVE.
AND THE SCHOOL BOARD JUST NEVER SEEMS TO UNDERSTAND OR CARE ABOUT WHAT THAT IS.
WELL, WHEN THEY BUILT THE HIGH SCHOOL ORIGINALLY, BEFORE THEY EVEN FINISHED IT, THEY PUT AN ADDITION ONTO IT.
CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT? THAT'S VERY RARE.
SO THAT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT PLANNING.
[01:00:01]
MEAN, I, I LOOK AT IT JUST FROM A, A STANDPOINT OF, OKAY, IF, IF DEVELOPMENT HAPPENS WITHTHEY ALL GET BUSED TO OAKS FROM, AND AGAIN, THIS IS ALL ANECDOTAL.
UM, MY UNDERSTANDING FROM FRIENDS I HAD THAT I KNOW THAT HAVE KIDS GOING THERE IS OAKS ELEMENTARY WAS BURSTING AT THE SEAMS. SURE.
NOW YOU ALWAYS TAKE THAT, YOU ALWAYS TAKE THAT DOWN A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE PARENTS ALWAYS SAY, WELL, 23 PERSON AT THE SEAMS, 18 IS NOT, YOU KNOW, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT MIGHT SAY 27TH PERSON AT THE SEAMS, 23 PER CLASS IS NOT.
SO, AND I'M NOT A DEMOGRAPHER.
I'M NOT, I HAVE NO EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER BREAKS HAPPEN TO BE, BUT I LOOK AT SOME OF THE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S COMING IN IN LIMERICK ON EVERGREEN ROAD AND SOME OF THE NEWER HOUSING DEVELOPMENT THAT'S COMING IN LIMERICK.
AND I CAN'T TELL LIMERICK WHAT TO DO, BUT I'M LIKE, WHERE ARE THOSE KIDS GONNA GO TO SCHOOL? THERE'S ONLY BROOKS LIMERICK AND EVANS ELEMENTARY.
AND MY UNDERSTANDING OF THOSE THREE SCHOOLS ARE ALL VERY FULL TOO.
I THINK, I THINK THAT'S MY CONCERN, THAT THE SCHOOL, THEY'RE GONNA, THEY'RE GONNA COME OUT WITH WELLS OF BUILD ANOTHER SCHOOL SOMEWHERE, OR OAKS PARTICULARLY, THEY'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, REDO THAT.
WHAT ABOUT PROVIDENCE? UM, YOU KNOW, PROVIDENCE TOWN CENTER.
I MEAN, HOW MANY KIDS ARE GONNA BE IN THERE? RIGHT? YOU HAVE 500 APARTMENTS, RIGHT? IS THAT WHAT TALKING ABOUT? YEAH.
WELL, THAT WAS THE NUMBER WE TALKED ABOUT NOW BEING, IF IT WAS 3.1, ONE OF THOSE IS A KID, RIGHT? IT WAS 3.1 PER FAMILY.
WELL, AND YOU KNOW, SORRY KID.
HE'S A LITTLE KID, BUT HE IS A KID.
WE'RE NOT TALKING FOR, WE DON'T, WE DO NOT PUT FOOD.
I MEAN, I'M GONNA ASK BRAD, AFTER THAT BUILDING GETS UP AND MOVING, AND I KNOW THAT THEY HAD, IN THE FIRST COUPLE WEEKS THEY HAD AROUND 70 PEOPLE THAT, THAT WERE LIKE THE FIRST PEOPLE THAT MOVED INTO THAT BUILDING.
AND HE SAID, ONE OF THEM IS A FAMILY.
I WANT TO GET, I WANT TO GIVE HIM SIX MONTHS AND SAY, OKAY, GIVE ME THE HARD NUMBERS OF WHO'S HERE, WHO'S NOT, HOW MANY KIDS THERE ARE, HOW MANY KIDS THERE AREN'T.
YOU KNOW, SO THAT, SO THAT WE KNOW, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE A THOUSAND KIDS RUNNING IN THAT.
IT'S FUNNY HOW THAT WORKS IN THIS WORLD, BUT IF, IF THERE'S A, A FAMILY, A HUSBAND AND A WIFE, EVENTUALLY THERE'S GONNA BE A KID.
IT'S FUNNY HOW THAT WORKS IN THIS WORLD.
THAT'S USUALLY HOW THAT WORKS OUT.
BUT LIKE OVER A KING OF PRUSSIA, THE WAY IT'S WORKING OUT IS, YEAH, THERE'S FAMILIES, THERE ARE VERY YOUNG FAMILIES MM-HMM.
AND THEY'RE THERE FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE A LOT OF OVER FIVE YEAR OLDS RUNNING AROUND OVER THERE, AND THEY'RE THOUSAND.
AND, BUT I'M CONCERNED IF THERE ISN'T.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH THOSE KIDS? THE POOL FURNITURE THERE COSTS WAY MORE THAN MY HOUSE.
BUT CAN I, CAN I LIKE ON MR, LIKE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
UH, JOSEPH PETERS, UH, NINE DANA DRIVE.
BASED ON MR. WRIGHT'S COMMENT.
IS THERE SOME WAY THAT YOU CAN, CAN ASK THE, UH, THE SCHOOL BOARD TO SOMEHOW NOT VOTE ON OR, BUT AT LEAST, UH, HAVE A SIGNATURE THAT SAYS, WE HAVE REVIEWED THIS PLAN AND WE HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH, WITH THE RECOMMENDATION.
I MEAN, JUST SO YOU KNOW, IT'S ACTUALLY SOME, SOMEHOW BASED ON, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, MR. WRIGHT'S RIGHT? I MEAN, WHATEVER HAPPENS HERE AFFECTS THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, WHICH AFFECTS ALL OF THE TAXPAYERS BECAUSE 4% TAX SCHOOL AND TAX THIS YEAR, DO WE HAVE TO BUILD ANOTHER SCHOOL? MM-HMM.
WE, WE, WE ACCEPT IT, WE AGREED, OR WE CAN HANDLE IT.
I, I DON'T THINK MUNICIPALITIES HAVE THAT KIND OF AUTHORITY.
WE CAN'T MAKE ANYBODY REVIEW ANYTHING.
I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THEY SHOULD DO THAT.
THAT IT WOULD BE NICE IF THEY DID THAT TO YOU AND JUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY'VE RECEIVED IT.
WELL, BUT COULD WE, COULD, COULD THERE BE WE GO ON RECORD THAT SAY WE'VE REQUESTED THE SCHOOL BOARD.
I I MEAN, I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO SOMEHOW PUT THE SCHOOL BOARD ON NOTICE THAT THEY NEED TO TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY AS WELL FOR THE DEVELOPMENT THAT GOES ON HERE.
BECAUSE IT ULTIMATELY AFFECTS THE TAXPAYERS BECAUSE OF OUR SCHOOL TAXES AND THE EDUCATION OF THE KIDS THAT ARE NO,
[01:05:01]
I HAD A MEMBER 0.1% THAT ARE COMING UP.I'VE HAD A MEMBER OF THE SCHOOL BOARD THAT'S NO LONGER ON THE SCHOOL BOARD COMING YELL AT ME IN A PUBLIC MEETING.
SO I'M NOT TALKING ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT THE SCHOOL BOARD SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT DO.
I'M NOT PUTTING THAT OUT THERE.
MY LETTER SPECIFICALLY, THEY'RE USED TO THAT.
THAT'S WHY THEY'RE USED TO YELLING AT SCHOOL.
SO MY, MY LETTER SPECIFICALLY REQUESTS A REVIEW FROM EVERYBODY.
I MEAN, ANTHONY GETS THE SAME LETTER.
JEN GETS THE SAME LETTER, THE COUNTY GETS THE SAME LETTER.
THEY SPECIFICALLY REQUESTS A REVIEW IN A TIMELY MANNER.
I, I GUESS WE CAN PUT TOM ON, ON A LETTER SAYING, WE, WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT YOU REVIEW THIS.
I'M BEING DELIVERED TO, I DUNNO WHAT, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE SOLUTION IS, BUT OUR PLANS ARE BEING, BUT I AGREE.
I MEAN, SOMEHOW WE NEED FOR THEM TO SOMEHOW SAY OKAY, OR WE HAVE NO COMMENT AT LEAST, RIGHT.
SAY SOMETHING, UH, YOU KNOW, AND, AND MR THEN WE CAN THEN WE CAN HOLD THEM THE SCHOOL BOARD LIABLE FOR, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU AGREE TO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN.
I MEAN, I, MR. I DONE, I COMPLETELY 100% AGREE WITH YOUR POSITION.
WELL, I, I JUST THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE OUGHT TO KEEP IN MIND TOO AS WE GO THROUGH THIS PLAN IS, IS TRY TO KEEP, TO MR. PETER'S POINT, TRY TO KEEP SOMEBODY AT THE SCHOOL BOARD.
HOPEFULLY THERE'S SOMEBODY ON THERE THAT WOULD BE SMART ENOUGH TO SAY, HEY, YOU GUYS ARE PLAYING IT FOR THIS MUCH GROWTH.
AND, UH, WITHOUT DOING THIS, THIS, AND THIS.
AND I THINK THAT WOULD AFFECT THE PLAN.
AND ACTUALLY A LOT OF SCHOOL DISTRICTS HAVE DONE SIMILAR THINGS IN THE PAST, WHETHER OURS IS DOING IT RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T KNOW.
I HAVE, I HAVE RECEIVED PHONE CALLS, IT'S BEEN A COUPLE YEARS, BUT I HAVE RECEIVED PHONE CALLS FROM A CONSULTANT TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT WAS PUTTING TOGETHER A REPORT OF DEVELOPMENT.
SO THEY, WE WOULD GO THROUGH ALL THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT WERE QUEUED UP, LIKE THE DEVELOPMENT MAP THAT YOU ALL SEEN IN YOUR NEWSLETTER THAT I PUT TOGETHER.
WE WENT THROUGH THAT AND I EXPLAINED WHERE EVERYTHING WAS AND WHAT, AND I GAVE HIM COPIES OF THE PLANS AND SHOWED HIM, TOLD HIM HOW MUCH DEVELOPMENT THERE WAS COMING AND I SAID, CAN I GET A COPY OF YOUR REPORT WHEN YOU'RE FINISHED? AND HE SAID, NO, SURE, SURE, SURE.
AND I NEVER HEARD FROM HIM AGAIN.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF HE EVER PUBLISHED A REPORT OR NOT.
UM, IT WASN'T, WASN'T LIKE A MAJOR COMPANY.
IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS SOMEBODY SORT OF WORKING ON THEIR BASEMENT, WHICH I WORK OUTTA MY BASEMENT, SO I SHOULDN'T SAY ANYTHING.
BUT, UM,
SO UNFORTUNATELY, I, I THINK THEY DO THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE AT, WE'RE PRIVY TO THE INFORMATION AS MUCH AS I WISH WE TALKED.
MAYBE JUST BECAUSE MY WIFE'S A TEACHER AND I'M CLOSE TO IT, BUT, BUT YOU KNOW, THEY'RE VERY NON-TRANSPARENT AT THAT SCHOOL.
AND UM, UM, THAT CONCERNS ME AND WELL, WE'VE MADE NO POINT.
UM, JEFF, HOW MUCH MORE YOU WANNA DO HERE? I THINK I'M DONE.
I THINK AJ WAS ABOUT TO SAY SOMETHING.
YOU JUST DON'T WANNA GO A RABBIT HOLE, BUT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT DEVELOPMENT IN SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND I REMEMBER WE HAD A DISCUSSION WITH RITTENHOUSE.
HAVE YOU HEARD ANY UPDATES ON THAT ON RITTENHOUSE BY POP JOHN PAUL? YEAH.
THEY'RE WORKING ON THEIR, THEY HAVE THEIR FINAL PLAN INTO US.
THEY'RE WORKING THROUGH DETAILS ON THAT.
UM, I'M NOT SURE WHERE THEY ARE IN TERMS OF REACHING OUT TO POOCH JOHN PAUL IN TERMS OF COORDINATING TRAILS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
WE'RE DISCUSSING LIKE WHAT'S THE IMPACT THE SPRING FORWARD.
SO I'M JUST, WELL TO ALSO WORKS WITH THE DIOCESE A LOT.
SO, YOU KNOW, HE, ACCORDING TO BRIAN TIER AND THEIR GUY, THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT POP JOHN PAUL CAMP RAISE MY TAXES.
BUT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS AWARE OF, OF THAT PLAN.
THEY GET COPIED ON THE PRELIMINARY AND ON ALL THE PLANS.
AND AGAIN, IT GOES TO MR. PETER'S POINT.
WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THOSE GO IF THEY JUST, THEY'RE HAND DELIVERED BY OUR, OUR COURIER, THE TOWNSHIP THAT, AND THEY COULD GO ON A FILE OR WRITE THE TRASH.
I, I, I WISH I GOT SOME RESPONSE SAYING, I THANK YOU FOR THE PLAN, BUT I, EVERYONE, WE'VE NEVER REALIZED.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
I TAKE A MOTION TO, UH, UH, POSTPONE OR, UH, CANCEL OUR, UH, AUGUST 2ND MEETING AND MOVE TO THE 16TH? I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO DO THAT.A MOTION TO CANCEL THE AUGUST 2ND.
SO AJ MADE A MOTION TO AUGUST 2ND.
ANY UH, ANY PROBLEMS WITH THAT? ANY, UH, COMMENTS OR DISAGREEMENTS? IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A VOTE.
ALL IN FAVOR OF CANCELING AUGUST 2ND, SAY AYE.
SO, UH, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE 16TH.
AND MOST, AT THIS POINT WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT MORE OF THIS.
SO YOU'RE GONNA SEND THIS, I WILL SEND THIS, I WILL SEND THIS VERY INFORMATIVE.
BY THE WAY, I WILL SEND THIS TO YOU AND I WILL DEMOGRAPHICS, I, THERE WAS A FEW CHARTS AT THE VERY END THAT I WANTED, THAT I NEEDED TO PUT IN
[01:10:01]
THAT I JUST DIDN'T GET TO TODAY CUZ THE WORLD CAUGHT THE FIRE A COUPLE TIMES.UM, SO I WILL PUT THOSE IN TOMORROW, AT LEAST BY THE END OF THE WEEKEND.
I WILL MAIL OUT THE DEMOGRAPHIC SECTION.
THAT'S A GREAT, THAT'S, I'LL WORK ON THE HOUSING SECTION.
I WANT TO GET THESE SECTIONS TO YOU WELL IN ADVANCE.
I KNOW, I REALIZE I GOT THE, THE AGENDA TO YOU ON MONDAY THIS WEEK.
I LIKE GETTING THE AGENDA OUT WEEK BEFORE THE MEETING WITH THE INFORMATION SO YOU HAVE TIME TO REVIEW IT.
SO MY PLAN THE WEEK BEFORE THE 16TH WOULD BE TO GET THE AGENDA OUT WITH THE INFORMATION SO YOU CAN READ THE INFORMATION AND THEN YOU CAN COME IN HERE AND SAY, JEFF, YOU'RE FULL CRAP.
SO JEFF, I'LL BE OUT OF THE COUNTRY THAT, THAT WEEK.
IS IT, WILL THERE BE ENOUGH TIME IF I WANT TO PROVIDE COMMENTS TO THE COMMISSION SEPARATELY BEFORE LEAVE? SURE, SURE.
OR EVEN AFTER, CUZ NOTHING IS REALLY, ONCE WE SORT OF REVIEW IT HERE, NOTHING IS SET IN STONE.
YOUR SUGGESTIONS AT THAT MEETING WILL GET REINCORPORATED BACK INTO IT.
SO IF YOU COME BACK INTO THE COUNTRY AT THE END OF AUGUST AND SAY, HEY JEFF, BY SEPTEMBER I'D LIKE TO SEE THIS AND THIS AND THERE, WE'LL MAKE NOTE OF THAT.
AND AS LONG AS EVERYBODY AGREES, WE'LL PUT IT IN THERE.
IS THAT RIGHT? MAYBE IF THERE'S SOMETHING I THINK IS WORTHY OF DISCUSSION AT THE POINT, I'LL, I'LL SEND THAT UP THEN.
READY? YOU HAVE ALL YOUR EMAILS, I DON'T NEED TO BE INCLUDED AND YOU CAN'T, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DELIBERATE, BUT IF YOU WERE TO EMAIL EACH OTHER, I CAN'T STOP YOU.
SO, UM, ANYTHING ELSE JEFF? FOR LACK OF A NO AND NOTHING ELSE.
I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN TO ME.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND YOU SECOND.
THAT WAS THE NEXT PRESENTATION.