[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:03]
I WANT TO CALL TO ORDER THE WEDNESDAY, JUNE 7TH, 2023 MEETING OF THE UPPER PROVIDENCE PLANNING COMMISSION.UH, THANKS ALL FOR BEING HERE.
UM, I THINK EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE A COPY OF THE AGENDA THERE IN THE BACK.
[MOTION TO APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA]
UH, WITH, UH, A MOTION TO APPROVE THE PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA, WHICH AGAIN, YOU SHOULD HAVE COPIES IF YOU DON'T.UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE, THE, THE FOLLOWING AGENDA.
LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE THREE PEOPLE ON THE AGENDA.
UM, SO I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THAT.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
SO WE'VE APPROVED THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING.
UM, AND THEN, UH, NEXT ON OUR AGENDA WILL BE PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ANY NON-AGENDA ITEMS. SO IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT'S NOT, UH, THE THREE THINGS THAT ARE ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT, IF ANYBODY HAS ANY PUBLIC COMMENT, IT'S TIME TO STEP UP NOW, INTRODUCE YOURSELVES AND, UH, MAKE YOUR COMMENTS.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
THAT.UM, THE NEXT THING IS, UH, THE MINUTES FROM OUR LAST MEETING, WHICH WAS ON MAY 3RD, UH, ABOUT A MONTH AGO.
UM, UH, GENTLEMEN, UH, OUR LADY'S NOT WITH US TONIGHT, GENTLEMEN.
DO WE, UH, EVERYBODY HAVE A CHANCE TO LOOK THROUGH THOSE MINUTES AND DO WE HAVE ANY COMMENTS, CLARITY, CORRECTIONS ON THOSE MINUTES? IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM MAY 3RD, 2023.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES.
KAY'S MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE MINUTES FROM MAY 3RD.
DO I HAVE SECOND? AJ MADE A SECOND.
ANY FURTHER COMMENTS? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
SO WE'VE APPROVED THE MINUTES, JEFFREY, SO, UH, WE'LL MOVE
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON]
ON TO OUR APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD TONIGHT, UNLESS THERE'S ANY OTHER COMMENTS.UM, AND I GUESS THE FIRST ONE ON THE AGENDA, LUCKY THEM, IS AIR AIRPORT DRIVE, THREE LOTS SUBDIVISION.
DO WE HAVE ANYBODY HERE REPRESENTING THAT GROUP? UH, PLEASE STEP FORWARD AND STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.
WE'LL NEED NAMES AND ADDRESSES.
UH, THERE'S NO MICROPHONE HERE, BUT THE MICROPHONE'S RIGHT ABOVE YOU.
I JUST NEED YOU TO SPEAK, UH, STRAIGHTFORWARD, NOT DOWN.
AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO PICK UP EVERYTHING.
I'M THE APPLICANT, UH, FOR THIS THREE LOTS SUBDIVISION.
ANTHONY HILAND, THE CONSULTING ENGINEER REPRESENTING IGOR AND HIS WIFE.
YOU RECEIVED THE, THE, UM, CONSULTANT LETTERS? I HAVE.
OH, THEY'RE ALL DATED UP THERE.
UM, AS YOU MAY OR MAY NOT ALREADY BE AWARE, THE, UM, RECENT CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE THE, THE, UH, RECENT CONSTRUCTION OF THE SANITARY SEWER, UH, PUMP STATION IS LOCATED ADJACENT TO THIS SITE AND WAS, UH, PART AND PARCEL OF THE SITE BEFORE THE SEWER AUTHORITY DIVIDED IT OFF OF THE SITE.
SO THE REMAINDER OF THE SITE, UH, HERE IS, UH, GOT APPROXIMATELY A HUNDRED AND, UH, 60 FEET OF FRONT IS A LONG IOI DRIVE AT THAT, UH, LOW POINT, UH, WHERE IT BENDS, UH, AROUND IN A, UM, EAST, WEST, UH, ORIENTATION HERE.
UH, SO TO DIVIDE THE PROPERTY, UH, WE ARE PROPOSING A NEW CUL-DE-SAC THAT WOULD REQUIRE A WAIVER FROM THE MINIMUM LENGTH OF 300 FEET.
UH, 300 FEET OBVIOUSLY WOULD PUT IT, UH, BEYOND OUR PROPERTY LIMITS.
UM, AND WITH THE SITE CONSTRICTION OF A NATURAL RESOURCE HERE, THIS, UH, WETLAND HERE, UM, WE, UH, WOULD TAKE THE CUL-DE-SAC AT 121 FEET INTO THE SITE, UH, AT WHICH POINT, UH, THREE NEW LOTS WOULD BE CREATED, ALL MEETING THE ZONING REQUIREMENTS, UH, FOR EACH OF THE THREE LOTS.
UM, AND ONE OF THE COMMENTS WE WOULD HAVE TO ADJUST THE LINE BETWEEN
[00:05:01]
LOT ONE AND TWO BASED ON A, UM, COMMENT HERE WITH REGARD TO THE, UH, LOT WITH A LONG, THE CUL-DE-SAC RADIUS.UH, IT WOULD BE A SLIGHT ADJUSTMENT OF A FEW FEET RIGHT HERE.
UH, THE THREE LOTS THEN WOULD EACH HAVE A SINGLE FAMILY, UH, HOME WITH A GARAGE AND, UM, UH, ROOM ENOUGH FOR THE YARD AREA, PATIO AREA, UH, FROM PORCHES.
UH, AND, UM, DID LIKE, UM, GO THROUGH A COUPLE OF THE, UM, SCENARIOS HERE.
EACH LOT IN THIS DISTRICT, BEING THE R TWO REQUIRES 15,000 SQUARE FEET.
UM, EACH OF THEM ARE BEYOND THAT 15,000.
UM, WE HAVE 110,000 SQUARE FEET, UM, THAT EACH LOT WOULD BE, UM, NEARLY, UH, 40,000.
THE LOT WIDTH REQUIREMENT AT THE BUILDING LINE IS A HUNDRED FEET.
WE WOULD MEET THAT REQUIREMENT.
THE FRONT YARD SETBACK IS 30, WHICH, UH, WE WOULD COMPLY WITH THE SIDE YARD SETBACK, A MINIMUM OF 15.
AND AN AGGREGATE OF 40, UH, WE WOULD COMPLY WITH THAT.
UM, AND THE REAR YARD, UH, BUILDING COVERAGE AND BUILDING HEIGHT, UH, WOULD ALL BE COMPLIANT TO THE, UH, ZONING IN R TWO.
UH, THAT'S A 40 FOOT REAR YARD.
UM, A 20% BUILDING COVER AND A 35 FOOT BUILDING HEIGHT.
HOWEVER, THE PLAN DOES HAVE SOME STEEP SLOPES ASSOCIATED WITH IT, UM, IN THESE DARK SHADED AREAS HERE IN THE FRONT YARD OF LOT ONE HERE IN THE REAR YARD OF LOT ONE IN THE REAR, LOT OF LOT TWO, AND IN THE REAR LOT OF LOT THREE.
UH, THE FACT THAT THOSE, UM, STEEP SLOPES ARE IN THOSE YARDS REQUIRES A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FILING, UH, WHICH, UH, WE, UH, WILL PROCEED IN IN THAT FILING.
IF, UM, WE'VE, UH, GOT SUPPORT AND SOME, UM, UH, SUPPORT FROM THIS PLANNING BODY AND SOME INPUT FROM THE PLANNING BODY, UM, THE, UH, SITE IS, WOULD IT, UH, NOT SURE IF THE TOWNSHIP HAS THAT PLAN, BUT WHAT YOU JUST SAW BEFORE THIS PLAN, UH, WAS A GOOGLE MAP THAT SHOWED THE EXISTING, UM, WOODLAND COVER.
UH, HERE, UH, IF, UM, I MAY, THERE'S TWO POINTS IN THE REVIEW LETTERS.
ONE FROM THE COUNTY AND ONE FROM THE TOWNSHIP ENGINEER, UM, THAT KIND OF, UH, BALANCE EACH OTHER.
UH, THE COUNTY SUGGESTS THAT, UH, IT MIGHT BE A BETTER LAND PLAN TO REMOVE THIS 60 FOOT DIAMETER CUL-DE-SAC AND SHARE A DRIVEWAY OFF IOI.
IT WOULD APPROXIMATELY BE LOCATED AT THE SAME INTERSECTION.
THE SHERE DRIVEWAY, UH, WOULD REDUCE THE IMPERVIOUS COVER BY A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT, WHICH WOULD ALLOW MORE WOODLANDS TO BE PRESERVED.
AND A, UM, A MUCH, UH, MORE, UM, DESIRABLE ENTRANCE.
UM, WE DIDN'T KNOW IF THIS PLANNING BODY WOULD HAVE INPUT TO THE, UH, COUNTY'S, UH, RECOMMENDATION THERE.
UH, BUT IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT COULD GUIDE US.
UH, AS YOU KNOW, THIS IS TENTATIVE AND, UH, THAT TYPE OF GUIDANCE, UH, WE WOULD SEEK FROM YOU, UH, TONIGHT IF POSSIBLE, OR AT ANOTHER MEETING.
UM, THE OTHER COMMENT THAT KIND, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT WOULD YOU PREFER? WHAT WOULD THE, THIS IS OWNER OR THE OWNER PREFER? UH, THIS IS WHAT WE PREFER.
YOU PREFER THE CALL AT, UM, BY WE HAVING THAT COMMENT IN THE LETTER, WE'VE TAKEN A, UH, SECOND, UM, UM, THOUGHT HERE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT WOULDN'T BE SUCH A BAD THING IF IT WAS A SHARED DRIVEWAY.
WELL, WOULD YOU JUST EXPLAIN IT? THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING THE QUESTION.
CAUSE IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU ARE NOW TELLING YOU SHE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE SHARED DRIVEWAY.
IT SOUNDED LIKE WHEN YOU EXPLAINED TO YOU THAT THAT'S WHERE YOU NOW THINK YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND.
[00:10:01]
IN THE LETTER, BUT THEN THE FIRE MARSHAL ALSO WROTE A LETTERAND SO THE GUIDANCE WE SEEK FROM YOU IS, UM, IF WE WERE TO PURSUE A SHARED DRIVEWAY, I WOULD ONLY DO SO WITH SOME SUPPORT FROM THE COMMUNITY AND OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF SUPPORT FROM THE FIRE MARSHAL.
UH, I'VE DONE SHARED DRIVEWAYS ON THREE UNITS THAT WE CAN ACCOMMODATE A FIRETRUCK AND, UM, SOME FIRE MARSHALS WOULD SUPPORT THAT AND SOME WOULD NOT.
SO IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO, UM, UM, WE WOULD GO ALONG WITH EITHER, WE CERTAINLY LIKE THE SHARED DRIVEWAY CONCEPT, AND I COULD DRAW THAT UP AND COME BACK TO THIS BODY WITH THAT CONCEPT AND MAYBE EVEN MEET WITH THE FIRE MARSHAL BEFORE I COME BACK HERE.
JEFF, IS THE FIRE MARSHAL IN HERE? YEAH, IT'S RIGHT AFTER THE COUNTY LETTER.
I'M GONNA SEE WHAT COMMENT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, ANTHONY.
THE, UH, I THINK IT'S THE THIRD COMMENT.
THE FIRE MARSHAL'S A DIFFERENT LETTER.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S LETTER BROUGHT UP THE CUL-DE-SAC, THE FIRE I SEE THAT.
THE FIRE MARSHAL HAD HIS OWN LETTER, WHICH, UM, IS BASED ON OUR APPLICATION FILING AND NOT ON A COMMENT THAT THE PLAINTIFF COMMISSION MADE THAT THE COUNTY PLAINTIFF.
I, I GUESS I'M JUST NOT CLEAR WHAT YOU'RE IMPLYING.
I WOULD WANT OPINION, I WOULD WANT TO GET HIS OPINIONS.
SO WOULD WE, I MEAN, WE WON'T SURE, NO QUESTION.
WELL, AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS AND I WOULD, KNOWING CHIEF LING, HE READ THE PLAN AND THE PLAN HE PRESENTED IS THE PLAN.
HE'S, HE DIDN'T MAKE ANY COMMENT ABOUT A SHARED DRIVEWAY OR THE LACK OF ABILITY TO USE THE CUL-DE-SAC FROM A FIRE SAFETY STANDPOINT.
SO MOVING FORWARD, I THINK THE, THE FIRE CHIEF, THE ASSISTANT FIRE CHIEF IS PROBABLY COMFORTABLE WITH THIS.
UM, IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION WANTS TO GO AHEAD FORWARD WITH A SHARED DRIVEWAY, I DON'T THINK IT'S OUR CHOICE TO DO THAT.
IF THAT'S THE PLAN, YOU WANNA MOVE FORWARD, YOU MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.
IF THIS IS A PLAN YOU WANNA MOVE FORWARD WITH, YOU MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS PLAN, UH, OBVIOUSLY WE'D LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, HAVING THAT COMMENT.
THIS, UM, SOMETHING THAT I WANT TO CONVERSE WITH THIS BODY.
YOU, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE FIRE CHIEF, UH, DIDN'T HAVE THE BENEFIT OF THE OPINION FROM THE COUNTY.
SO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT HIS OPINION IS ON THE SHARED DRIVEWAY BEFORE YOU DECIDE WHICH WAY YOU WANT TO TAKE IT? THAT IS CORRECT.
AND, AND OBVIOUSLY IN HIS LETTER HERE, HE DOESN'T ADDRESS THAT HE'S ADDRESSING THE CUL-DE-SAC, WHICH IS THE APPLICATION HE'S SENT.
THAT'S THE ONLY THING HE'S SEEN.
SO AT THIS POINT FOR US TO, WE, WE WOULDN'T MAKE A RECOMMENDATION UP, NOT HIS INPUT AT THIS POINT.
I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF I WERE TO PURSUE THAT AND COME BACK TO YOU AFTER HAVING SAT WITH THEM AND GETTING INPUT.
WELL, I THINK THAT'S YOUR CHOICE.
THAT'S WHY I ASKED YOU EARLIER.
YOU KNOW, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA OBVIOUSLY ASK THESE GENTLEMEN WHAT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THE TRAFFIC PEOPLE AND THE GROUND PEOPLE, WHAT THEIR OPINIONS ARE.
AND BETWEEN THE TWO, IF THERE'S A DIFFERENCE, WE'RE GONNA TAKE THEIR OPINIONS ALSO.
SO YEAH, JUST SORT OF A CURVE BALL THAT WAS THROWN AT US FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION AT THE COUNTY LEVEL, AND I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO RESPOND.
WELL YOU'RE COMING OUT TO A STEEP SLOPE PRETTY CLOSE THERE ON THAT ONE DRIVEWAY.
SO IT MIGHT AVOID SOME ISSUES WITH THAT IF YOU WENT WITH THE DUAL.
DEPENDS ON HOW IT WOULD, OF COURSE.
WOULD IT BE A SHEER DRIVEWAY FOR ALL THREE? CORRECT.
ALL CRAZY IN ONE AND THEN BRANCH LIKE EXACTLY.
AND WE'D COME IN WITH SOMETHING WIDE ENOUGH, OBVIOUSLY FOR THE FIRE APPARATUS THAT HE COULD PUT DOWN HIS LANDERS AND, UM, UH, BACK OUT.
HE WOULDN'T COME IN AND TURN AROUND.
UM, BUT THAT WOULD BE A MAJOR DIFFERENCE.
SO THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT IT UP ONLY FOR THE FACT THAT THEY HAD, UH, PUT IT INTO THEIR LETTER.
AND I DIDN'T WANNA GO FORWARD WITHOUT, UH, ANYBODY SAYING, OH, WELL WE REALLY THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS A GREAT RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COUNTY.
WHY DIDN'T YOU EVER BRING IT UP? UM, I, I THINK THAT THIS BOARD HAS DIRECTLY JOE, I MEAN, WE WOULD NOT, THAT CAN COME BACK AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHAT WE PREFER TO DO.
THE MARSHALL SAYS, YEAH, THAT WORKS FOR US AND THESE GENTLEMEN THINK IT WORKS FOR US.
[00:15:01]
ADDRESS IT FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW.I SUPPOSE IT MIGHT MAKE SENSE TO ASK MIKE, OR, OR IF HE REALLY IT, IS THERE ANY OFF THE CUFF REASON WHY THE SHARED DRIVEWAY WOULD BE NOT WORK OR NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY MOVE AHEAD WITH AS THAT'S WHAT THEY PREFER? HOW WOULD YOU GET TO YOUR LOT FORTON SHARED DRIVEWAY, PUT YOUR BIKE ON? HOW WOULD YOU GET YOUR LOT FORTON SHARED DRIVEWAY? YOU TAKE THE CUL-DE-SAC ALL AWAY? UH, GOOD QUESTION.
WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST, MIKE, IS LOT IT OUT SIMILAR TO THIS LOT LAYOUT, BUT THEN IN THAT, UH, RIGHT OF WAY BUILD A SHARED DRIVEWAY RATHER THAN A CUL-DE-SAC.
I THINK HIS QUESTION IS YOU HAVE TO HAVE A 150 FOOT LOT WIDTH AT THE BUILDING SETBACK LINE.
I'M TAKING I UNDERSTAND, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THOSE, AND I THINK THIS IS MIKE'S QUESTION, IS I, THOSE LOT LINES ARE PROBABLY CLOSER THAN ON.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE RIGHT LOT WIDTH AT, AT THE BUILDING SETBACK LINE.
AND TO STILL HAVE 50 FOOT ACCESS ALONG THE FRONT TO SHOW THAT YOU HAVE, YOU'RE BASICALLY MAKING THREE FLAG LINES.
UM, IF I WERE TO DO ANYTHING, I WOULD LEAVE THE LOT LINES AS YOU SEE RIGHT NOW, BY OUR DEFINITION, YOU'RE GONNA BE MAKING THREE FLAG LOTS.
BY THE WAY OUR ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN, YOU WOULD'VE TO MAKE THREE FLAG LOTS, YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A MINIMUM OF 50 FEET FRONTAGE FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE FLAG LOTS TO SHOW.
YOU STILL HAVE THE SHARED DRIVEWAY, BUT EACH FLAG LOT'S GONNA HAVE TO HAVE 50 FEET IN THE FRONT.
I WAS MENTIONING AN ALTERNATIVE WHEREBY THE LOT LINES STAY LIKE THIS EACH MEETING, THE ZONING REQUIREMENT AND THEN TAKING OUT THE PHYSICAL ROAD AND BUILDING A PHYSICAL DRIVEWAY THAT'S SHARED RIGHT OF WAY STAYS THERE.
THE LOT LINE STAY THERE, THE A HUNDRED FOOT LAK STAYS THERE.
SO YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE JUST NOT PROPOSING THE BILL, THE CUL-DE-SAC, BUT YOU'RE STILL PROPOSING THE CUL-DE-SAC.
SO INSTEAD OF A HUNDRED FOOT DIAMETER OF PAV, YOU ONLY HAVE THE SHARED DRIVER WOULD BE PAID.
I, I MEAN FROM A BUYER'S STANDPOINT, ASSUMING YOU'RE SELLING THESE HOMES, THEY PROBABLY LIKE BEING ON A CUL-DE-SAC BETTER THAN SHARED DRIVE.
AESTHETICALLY IT LOOKS BETTER FOR SURE.
UM, THAT'S KIND OF WHY WE BROUGHT IT IN.
I, I THAT'S, THAT'S OUR APPLICATION.
JUST NOTED FOR THE RECORD, I BROUGHT IT TO THE PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR'S ATTENTION.
HE WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CUL-DE-SAC.
HE WILL NOT PLOW WITH CUL-DE-SAC.
HE WILL NOT REPAVE THE CUL-DE-SAC.
IT WILL NOT BECOME A TOWNSHIP ROAD, IT WILL NOT BE DEDICATED, ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO THERE WILL HAVE TO BE A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION THAT TAKES CARE OF THAT AND REBUILDS THAT, PLOW WITH THAT.
AND THAT, THAT'S WHY JIM, WHAT'S TOM'S REASON WITH THAT? BECAUSE THERE'S A, A CUL-DE-SAC HAS TO GET A CERTAIN LENGTH TO GET RIGHT.
UM, LIQUID FUELED MINE, LIQUID FUEL.
THIS DOESN'T EVEN APPROACH THAT.
SO IT WOULD JUST BE A DEFICIT FOR THE TOWNSHIP TO TAKE THIS.
IT'S YOUR ESTIMATE FOR A VERY YEAH.
BUT, UM, ALRIGHT, WELL YOU GUYS, IT IS ULTIMATELY IT'S UP TO YOU.
YOU GOT SOME FEEDBACK EITHER WAY.
THERE ARE SOME COMPETING INTERESTS THERE THAT COULD PUSH IT EITHER WAY AND REALLY ATTENTI.
IF SO, WE KNEW WE CAN COVER SOME OF THE OTHER POINTS.
AND I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THE REVIEW LETTER.
YEAH, BOTH, ALL THE REVIEW LETTERS ARE WILL COMPLIES.
UM, WE WOULD LOOK TO POSSIBLY REQUEST A WAIVER DEPENDING ON, UM, THE ASPECTS OF THE CUL-DE-SAC ON GRADE.
UH, THE CUL-DE-SAC ACCORDING TO THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES A MAXIMUM OF 4%.
UM, WE COULD COMPLY WITH THAT, BUT IT DOES BRING INTO PLAY THE USE OF SOME LANDSCAPE RETAINING WALLS, UM, APPROXIMATELY FOUR TO FIVE FEET HIGH.
UM, SO IF WE WERE TO GET A WAIVER ON THE SLOPE AND GO TO MAYBE A FIVE, 6%, NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE MAXIMUM OF 10, THAT WOULD REDUCE OUR WALLS TO TWO FOOT HIGH WALLS.
AND UM, THAT'S JUST SOMETHING WE CAN
[00:20:01]
LOOK AT GOING FORWARD.BUT ALL OF THE LETTERS, UM, ALL OF THE COMMENTS, UM, EVERYTHING, UH, WE, UH, WOULD, UH, SEEK TO COMPLY WITH AND THOSE WOULD BE OUR ONLY WAIVER DISCUSSION ITEMS. AT THE NEXT MEETING WE WOULD COME BACK TO YOU ON.
MIKE OR ANTHONY, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD TO YOUR LETTERS OR ANYTHING WE PUT US TO KNOW ABOUT THAT WE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT? OR ANYTHING CONCERNS YOU? I THINK OUR LETTER COVERS EVERYTHING BASED ON THE TENANT PLAN.
I MEAN, WE'RE ASKING FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON PRELIMINARY STAGE FOR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO REALLY CAN'T COMMENT ON THAT UNTIL WE SEE IT.
THE SAME WITH YOUR SANITARY SEWER CONNECTIONS FOR EACH, EACH OF THE HOUSE.
WE'LL HAVE TO SEE HOW YOU'RE GONNA DO THAT.
YEAH, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THERE'S, THERE'S NOTHING, YOU KNOW, THE LETTERS WILL COMPLY AND WE HAD SIMILAR WAIVER IDENTIFICATIONS THROUGH THE 300 FEET.
SOMETHING'S BEEN DISCUSSED TONIGHT, BUT UM, WE HAVE A SITE BUSINESS ISSUE OR QUESTION, I GUESS JUST CLARIFICATION ON PLANS MM-HMM.
OTHER, OTHER THAN THAT, THERE'S, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE AT THIS POINT THERE.
AND WE'RE, CAN WE SEE MORE INFO? RIGHT MIKE? UH, IT'S OKAY.
WELL IT SOUNDS LIKE MAYBE TO JOE'S POINT, YOU GUYS GOTTA TELL US WHERE IS THIS THE FINAL PLAN OR I MEAN IS THIS THE TENANT PLAN OR IS THE NEXT ONE REALLY WHAT WE REALLY GET BETTER THIS YEAR MM-HMM.
BUT YEAH, YOU GUYS HAVE TO DECIDE MM-HMM.
MAKE YOU COME, KEEP COMING BACK.
AND I JUST HAVE A QUICK QUESTION FOR JEFF.
SO YOU WERE SAYING, UM, 50 FEET, UM, THERE WAS A SHARED DRIVEWAY.
IS THAT 50 FEET OF LENGTH? NO, THAT'S WIDTH.
EVERY LOT HAS TO HAVE STREET FRONTAGE.
UNLESS YOU'RE GONNA BE ASKING FOR A VARIANCE OF THAT, EVERY LOT NEEDS TO HAVE SOME STREET FRONTAGE.
THE MINIMUM STREET FRONTAGE YOU CAN HAVE IS 50 FEET.
BECAUSE IT'S ESSENTIALLY MY LINE OF THINKING IS YOU'RE CREATING THREE FLAG LOTS WITHOUT TRUE FLAG POLES.
FOR LACK OF A BETTER WAY TO PUT IT.
SO IT'S NOT A TRUE FLAG LOT, BUT TO FIT IT IN THE DEFINITION OF HOW YOU CAN CREATE A LOT IN OUR ORDINANCE, THE ONLY THING YOU COULD REALLY DO OTHER THAN WHAT YOU HAVE HERE IS TO HAVE THREE FLAG LOTS NEXT TO EACH OTHER, WHICH YOU HAVE TO PROVE TO THE BOARD THAT IT'S ACCEPTABLE TO DO.
THERE'S CERTAIN CRITERIA IN THERE.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S DIFFICULT
UM, BUT THEN YOU ALSO HAVE TO SHOW THAT EACH LOT HAS ACCESS.
CUZ THE ISSUE IS THE FIRST GENERATION OF PEOPLE WHO MOVE IN THERE.
THE SECOND GENERATION, MAYBE THE MIDDLE GUY BECOMES A LITTLE BIT OF A JERK AND HE'S NOT PLOWING HIS PART.
THE OTHER TWO WANT TO PUT OUT THEIR OWN DRIVEWAYS.
AND I MEAN, THERE'S LEGAL REPERCU, THERE'S LEGAL WAYS YOU CAN DO THAT AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF, BUT WE TRY TO AVOID THOSE SITUATIONS.
SO ELSE ON THE BOARD HAVE A QUESTION, AJ HAILEY, HE HAS DECISIONS TO MAKE.
I MEAN, FROM A SALES STANDPOINT IT'S ONE THING, BUT IT'S GONNA COST MONEY TO, IF YOU HAVE NO ASSOCIATION WORK WITH.
UM, SO, AND TO ANSWER YOUR FIRST QUESTION, THE TOWNSHIP APPRECIATES THE INPUT FROM THE COUNTY, BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE'S NOTHING BINDING ABOUT THAT.
AND FREQUENTLY THEIR SUGGESTIONS ARE JUST TAKEN AS WHAT THEY ARE SUGGESTIONS AND WE'RE NOT, NOBODY'S MARRIED TO THAT.
UM, HAVING SAID ALL THAT, UH, IF WE TAKE THIS TENTATIVE, UH, TO THE NEXT, UH, LEVEL, UM, WOULD THE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION HAVE, UH, ANY CONCERN WITH US KEEPING THAT SHORT CUL-DE-SAC IN AN HOA AND ASKING THE SUPERVISORS HERE FOR A WAIVER FROM THE 300 FOOT LENGTH? UM, UH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
I MEAN, I, I GUESS WE DID, YOU KNOW, UH, WELL THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
I MEAN, WHEN YOU SAY MOVE IT TO THE NEXT STEP, YOU'RE GONNA BE COMING BACK HERE WITH THIS TENTATIVE, SO WE'RE NOT PRELIMINARY YET, BUT THE PROCESS ON THE WAIVERS IS ALSO FOLLOWS THE SAME ROUTE HERE AND THEN IT'LL GO TO THE SUPERVISORS.
SO THERE WILL BE A RECOMMENDATION HERE ON THE WAIVERS.
[00:25:01]
THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING? UH, YES.I I, I DON'T WANT ANYBODY TO COMMIT.
WE STILL HAVE TO GET THE, UM, FEEDBACK FROM THE FIRE MARSHAL, FROM THE FIRE CHIEF ON THE, ON THE, UH, CUL-DE-SAC.
SO LET'S FIGURE OUT WHICH WAY YOU'RE GONNA GO AND, AND WITH WHAT DIMENSIONS BASED ON THAT INPUT.
AND THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE WAIVERS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
I, I THINK WHAT YOU, THE PROCEDURE YOU COULD DO IS YOU HAVE OUR REVIEW LETTERS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING MM-HMM.
AS LONG AS YOU MEET EVERYTHING THAT THEY'VE ALREADY DONE, YOU'RE GETTING TO PRELIMINARY ANYWAY.
AND THEN YOU, ONCE YOU GET TE IF YOU, IF THE BOARD SUPERVISORS WILL WAIVE, TENTATIVE, PUT YOU A PRELIMINARY, WHICH IS DONE FOR A FEW SMALLER SUBDIVISIONS LIKE THIS, UM, YOU CAN THEN MOVE TO FINAL AFTER YOU ATTEND THE PRELIMINARY.
YOU CAN'T JUMP ALL THE WAY TO FINAL.
THAT'S JUST NOT GONNA HAPPEN CUZ WE HAVE TO HAVE A COMPLETELY CLEAN PLAN AND THAT'S JUST NOT LIKELY.
UM, SO ADMINISTRATIVELY YOU COULD, THAT WOULD BE AN OPTION FOR YOU AT THE NEXT STEP.
AND THAT WOULD HELP US ALONG CUZ WE DO NEED THAT SPECIAL EXCEPTION AS WELL.
SO WE COULD START THAT PROCESS.
YOU CAN START THAT PROCESS WHILE YOU'RE AMENDING THESE PLANS AND, AND ALL OF THAT TOO.
YOU CAN RUN THEM AT THE SAME TIME.
UM, LOOKS LIKE THERE'S ANOTHER, UH, MINOR SUBDIVISION, UH, HAFNER ROAD GROUP.
IS THAT, OH, THAT'S THIS GENTLEMAN.
WANNA UP THERE AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF? NAME AND UH, ADDRESS? CARL.
YOU'LL GET PICKED UP ON THE MIC IF YOU WANNA SIT AT THE TABLE.
YEAH, I THINK IT'S WHEN WE CAN DO THERE.
I'LL BE BRAVE CARL, KEEP ME OUT OF TROUBLE.
SO THIS IS A, UH, AS YOU MENTIONED, TWO LOT MINOR SUBDIVISION WITH PROPERTY WAS DOWN THE ROAD.
UH, ESSENTIALLY THE PROPOSAL BY THE APPLICANT IS TO ADD ONE HOUSE TO AN EXISTING RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY.
UM, BOTH LOTS THAT ARE PROPOSED FULLY COMPLY WITH ALL DIMENSIONAL REQUIREMENTS IN TERMS OF LOT AREA FRONTAGE AND AND SETBACKS.
UM, SO IN THAT SENSE, UH, THERE WERE NO CONSTRAINTS IN TERMS OF THE SUBDIVISION.
UM, ACTUALLY I'LL ASK, UH, MICHAEL TO GO THROUGH SOME OF THE DETAILS OF WHAT IS PROPOSED.
UM, WE'RE THE ENGINEERS LAND SURVEYORS FOR THE CARRADO.
UM, ROSA, UH, MRS. CARRADO OWNS THE WHOLE PROPERTY AND SHE'S TRYING TO SUBDIVIDE IT OR LOOKING TO SUBDIVIDE IT TO GET A LOT FOR HER SISTER.
SO, UM, WE WENT OUT AND, UH, SURVEYED IT.
WE GOT THE REVIEW LETTERS FROM GILMORE MCMAHON, WHICH YOU'RE AWARE OF.
UM, WE WILL BE, UH, WE WILL BE, UH, COMPLYING WITH UH, PROBABLY OVER 75% OF THE LETTER.
UH, THERE'S A COUPLE ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO WORK OUT YET.
UM, THEY'RE DOING SOME INFILTRATION TESTING SO WE CAN DESIGN A STORM WATER.
AND THEY'RE GONNA PUT TOGETHER, UH, THE PLAN OR THE DESIGN FOR THE SANITARY SEWER ALSO.
WHY DON'T, WHY DON'T WE JUST GO THROUGH A GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING? UH, MINOR SUBDIVISION, ONE LOT OR TWO LOT SUBDIVISION, UM, SIZE AND RESPECTIVE LOTS.
UH, ONE WOULD BE 1.47 ACRES AND THE EXISTING LOT WHERE THERE'S A HOUSE ON LOT NUMBER TWO WOULD BE 1.2 ACRES, 1.26.
UM, LET'S SEE WHAT ELSE? THERE ARE SOME SOME ISSUES THAT I WOULD, I GUESS, DO YOU WANT ME TO JUMP TO THE ZONING OR I GUESS, UH, YEAH, SO MOST WE HAVE TO DEAL MORE.
WE HAVE MCMAN REVIEW LETTERS AND MOST WILL COMPLI.
UM, THERE IS THERE, WE DON'T HAVE A FORMAL WAIVER LETTER SUBMITTED YET, BUT THE ISSUES, WE WANT TO GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM YOU IN TERMS OF POTENTIAL WAIVERS.
UH, ONE, UH, I GUESS GROUP OF ISSUES SHOWS UP IN BOTH GILMORE LETTER AND THE MCMAHON LETTER AND THAT IS THE ISSUE OF ROAD WIDENING SIDEWALK AND CURB ALONG THE FRONTAGE OF THIS PROPERTY.
UH, FOR THOSE OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH HAPNER ROAD, IT'S ESSENTIALLY A RURAL ROAD.
THERE IS ONE SHORT SEGMENT WHERE THERE ACTUALLY IS CURBING SIDEWALK AND THAT IS WHERE THE COUNTRY RIDGE DRIVE SUBDIVISION IS LOCATED.
UH, THE REST OF THE, UH, ROAD COMING OFF OF OLD STATE ROAD
[00:30:01]
AND AND CONTINUING AROUND THE LOOP OF THAT ROAD IS, IS RURAL AND IT HAS NO CURB OR SIDEWALK.UH, WE'RE ACTUALLY ROAD WIDENING.
SO WE DID GET YOUR, YOUR FIRST OF ALL YOUR FEEDBACK ON THAT ISSUE.
ANYTHING YOU DO WANNA OFFER ANYTHING ON THAT CURB? SIDEWALK WAIVERS? YEAH, WE NOTED ON OBVIOUSLY FOR THE ORDINANCE AS REQUIRED PER ORDINANCE.
UM, YEAH, WE NOTED WHAT WAS JUST MENTIONED ABOUT THE MAJORITY OF HAFFNER ROAD, I GUESS NOT BEING, YOU KNOW, WIDE.
EXCEPT FOR THE PORTION I GUESS TO THE CALL THAT TO THE EAST.
UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO PLANNED IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED FOR THE AREA.
UM, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY NO NEED FOR DECELERATION.
LEFT TURN LANES AND THAT THING FOR THE, FOR THE SUBDIVISION.
SO FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH NOT PROVIDING THE WIDENING IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WAS NOTED IN THE LETTER.
SO, SO WHAT DO, WHAT, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE RECOMMENDATION THERE? DO THEY HAVE TO RE THEY RECOMMEND BUY THE PARK IN THEIR FRONTAGE? HE, HE'S, WELL TWO THINGS.
ANDY'S SAYING HE DOESN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A WAIVER IN THAT REGARD.
CAUSE IT, THE REST OF THE ROAD ISN'T THAT WAY AND THERE'S NOTHING IN THE NEAR PLAY IN FUTURE FOR ANYWHERE IN THAT AREA.
WELL RIGHT NOW CARL'S IS LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK.
THEY HAVEN'T SUBMITTED A WAIVER LETTER YET THAT YOU'RE OFFERING RECOMMENDATIONS ON.
THEY JUST WANT SOME INITIAL FEEDBACK.
WHAT'S THE PROPERTY NEXT TO IT? WHAT, WHAT IS THAT PROPERTY NEXT TO THE WEST THERE? THAT BIG PATCH OF LAND? YOU GOT THE GOOGLE MAP SITE ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE.
IT'S OPEN SPACE WHERE THE FARM IS.
WHAT ASKING YEAH, THAT, THAT SECTION THERE, UH, TO THE LEFT OF THE, OF THE, YOUR, YOUR PROPERTY, I GUESS THAT'S THE WEST, RIGHT? THE WEST SIDE IS THAT, THAT'S A FARM NOW.
CAN SEE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT THERE, RIGHT? POSSIBLY.
I MEAN THERE COULD BE, THERE COULD BE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT ANYWHERE YOU, I THINK WE'RE, LOOK NORMALLY THAT HORIZON'S A LITTLE CLOSER WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT MEANING IN LOOKING AT IT, IT WOULD APPEAR BURDENSOME FOR JUST THE SUBDIVISION OF THE LOTS TO WIDEN THE ROADWAY IN THAT STRETCH.
AND EVEN SIDEWALK, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY SIDEWALKS NEAR THE, NO, THERE'S NO SIDEWALK ON IT HAS TO RED DOWN.
SO I, I I THINK THE BURDEN WOULD BE EXCESSIVE FOR THIS PARTICULAR DIVISION OF WATTS.
I WOULD AT LEAST I WOULD TEND TO THINK THAT WAY.
TEND TO THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE A WAY IT WOULD, IT WOULD'VE TO BE OR TO SUPPORT IT.
IS PUBLIC WATER AND SOAR DOWN THIS FAR? NO.
WITH THE ONLINE SEPTIC AND A WELL, YOU HAVE SOME PRETTY GOOD CONTOURS ON THAT LOT EVEN THOUGH THE LOT IS BIG.
I'M ACTUALLY GONNA CALCULATE, UM, THE STEEP SLOPE AREAS SO WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE CORRECT SETBACK ON THE BILLING SETBACK ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE.
SO I WILL, YOU KNOW, I WILL PUT THAT ON THE PLAN WHEN I GO TO RESUBMIT IT.
I'D JUST LIKE TO ADD, I KNOW WE SAID THERE'S NO PLANNED IMPROVEMENTS ON THAT AREA.
HAFNER, I RUN DOWN THAT ROAD ABOUT EVERY OTHER DAY AND THAT VERY TOP LEFT CORNER, WHICH IS UP AGAINST THAT OPEN SPACE IS PROBABLY THE LOWEST POINT ON HAFNER.
UM, AND THEN YOU HAVE A VERY STEEP HILL.
SO THE CONCERN WITH THE, THE WIDENING OF THE ROAD OR KEEPING THE ROAD THE WAY IT IS, IS YOU SEE NONE OF THE VEHICLES COMING OVER AND YOU HAVE SOMETIMES YOU GOT YOUTH DOWN THERE RIDING THEIR BIKES WHO ARE RUNNING.
SO MAINTAINING A NARROW ROAD MAKES IT ACTUALLY A, AN UNSAFE POSITION BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LOT OF VEHICLES COMING AROUND FROM THE OTHER SIDE.
HOFFNER COMING OVER THAT HILL.
AND MY, EVEN MYSELF, I'VE IN, IN A VEHICLE, I HAVE A SWERVE OVER BECAUSE SOMEONE'S COMING OVER IN EXCESSIVE SPEED.
SO I THINK IT WOULD ACTUALLY HELP THE AREA IF THERE WAS PLANNED IMPROVEMENTS FOR THAT.
CUZ IT'S, IT'S BARELY WIDE ENOUGH FOR TWO VEHICLES TO PASS.
AND I KNOW WE'VE HAD A PREVIOUS APPLICANT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF NER WANTING TO SUBDIVIDE.
SO THERE'S POTENTIAL OF THAT'S MY, THAT'S MY QUESTION.
THERE'S POTENTIAL IN THAT AREA.
YOU KNOW, I THINK TO SEE THIS NOT FIX THE ROAD, BUT I ALSO, IT HAS TO BE DONE AT SOME POINT I WOULD THINK.
AND TYPICALLY THAT'S WHY WE ASK THEM TO DEDICATE THE RIGHT OF WAY AND TO NOTE ON THE PLANS THAT THE RIGHT OF WAY IS DEDICATED.
THE, THE PLANS THEY SHOW AND THE LOCATION OF THE HOUSES THEY SHOW EVEN
[00:35:01]
THE EXISTING HOUSES DOES NOT INFRINGE ON THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY GOES.I THINK, UM, YOU'RE RIGHT THAT THERE, THERE IS A CHANCE, I MEAN I'VE IDENTIFIED SOME GROWTH AREAS IN THIS TOWNSHIP AND THIS IS SOME OF THE LAST CONGLOMERATE OPEN SPACE THAT WE HAVE OF SMALLER PARCELS.
IT IS POSSIBLE, AGAIN, DEPENDING ON WHAT CAN GO IN THERE AND WHAT CAN BE DEVELOPED DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU WOULD DO TO HALF IN A ROAD.
BUT YEAH, THAT'S FINAL CONCERN IS THAT, THAT IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S POTENTIAL FOR OTHER PROPERTIES THERE.
AND SHOULD WE ADDRESS THE ROAD NOW OR KICK IT DOWN THE STONE DOWN THE ROAD IN TERMS OF THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY, JUST TO BRING UP THAT ISSUE, UM, WE ARE, I GUESS THE PLANT HAD ORIGINALLY SHOWN 24 FOOT, UH, WIDENING OF THE ULTIMATE RIGHT OF WAY ON OUR SIDE.
AND AS THE ENGINEER POINTED OUT, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE 50, UH, 50 FEET OVERALL, 25 ON OUR SIDE.
WELL THAT'S FEEDBACK ANYWAY AHEAD OF YOUR FORMAL REQUEST LETTERS.
SO WE'LL DEAL WITH THAT WHEN WE, WHEN IT ROLLS IN.
ANOTHER ISSUE, UH, IN THE, UH, REASON THE GILMORE LETTER PERSONAL IS THE, UH, AREA OF STEVE SLOPE.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'LL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT.
WE PROBABLY WILL NEED TO GET A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR THE SIDE YARDS THAT ARE IN THIS, THESE STEEP SLOPES.
UH, THE UM, UH, UNLOCK SEWER IS OUT OF THE STEEP SLOPE.
UH, IT'S IN THE BACK WHERE IT IS MORE LEVEL.
UH, SO IT'S REALLY JUST THE SIDE YARDS AND, AND PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT OF THE REAR YARD THAT IS IN THE STEEP SLOPE AREA.
AND WE'LL NEED A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR THAT.
BUT AGAIN, WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR ANY STRUCTURES IN THOSE AREAS.
UM, THERE'S ANOTHER POINT THAT WAS RAISED.
THERE IS A SWALE SHOWN ON THIS PROPERTY.
THERE'S AN EXISTING SPRINGHOUSE, WHICH WILL REMAIN, UH, THERE'S A SW THAT COMES FROM THAT SPRINGHOUSE ALONG THIS AREA.
THERE WAS A, UH, THERE'S AN EXISTING CULVERT DOWN, DOWN OFF THE PROPERTY.
THERE'S A COMMENT ABOUT CREATING A 50 FOOT WIDE DRAIN ACHIEVEMENT, WHICH SEEMS A LITTLE EXCESSIVE FOR THIS SINGLE PROPERTY.
UM, WE CAN CERTAINLY DESIGNATE SOME SORT OF AN EASEMENT AROUND THIS, UH, SWALE.
UM, BUT IT'S, IT IS REALLY JUST A, A SWALE COMING FROM A, FROM A SPRING HOUSE.
UH, SO WE LIKE THE WAIVER FROM THAT 50 FOOT WIDE DRAINAGE EASEMENT REQUIREMENT.
UH, AND THE LAST ITEM IS A QUESTION OF SHADE TREES.
AND YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE IT ON THIS PARTICULAR PLAN, BUT, UM, THIS, THIS LOT IS ACTUALLY VERY HEAVILY WOODED.
YOU CAN SEE IT BETTER ON HERE.
UM, THERE'S NOT, WE HOPE TO PRESERVE MOST OF THE WOODS AND WE'RE LOCATING THE HOUSE IN AN AREA OF THIS PROPOSED LOT THAT IS NOT, UH, HEAVILY WOODED AT THIS POINT.
UH, SO THERE'S REALLY NOT GOING TO BE A LOT OF ROOM TO PROVIDE SHADE TREES.
UH, AGAIN, BUT WE WOULD COMMIT TO PRESERVING THE TREES THAT ARE THERE IF WE CAN FIT IN A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SHADY TREES ALONG THE FRONTAGE, WE, WE TRY TO DO THAT.
BUT OBVIOUSLY YOU, YOU DON'T WANT TO OVERPOPULATE WITH TREES CAUSE THEY END UP JUST, JUST DYING IF, UH, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ROOM FOR THEM.
SO COULD YOU CLARIFY MOST OF THE WOODED AREA? THERE WOULD NOT IN THE FINAL WOULD NOT BE THERE? UH, NO.
NONE, NONE OF THE WOODS ARE GONNA BE DISTURBED.
NO, HE'S SAYING THEY DON'T WANT TO.
THERE'S AN EXTRA, I DUNNO IF WE HAVE THE FEDERAL PLAN THAT SHOWS THAT.
UM, CAN I APPROACH? YOU CAN SEE THE, UH, THE ACTUAL BLUE LINE HERE, RIGHT HERE.
THIS IS, THIS IS ALL AND PROPOSING, UH, PUT THE HOUSE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT CAN GO BACK.
IT'S, IT'S VERY ACCURATE OR NOT.
CAN YOU PUT BACK UP OR MAYBE DO YOU HAVE, SO HERE'S THE WOODS.
WE DON'T, WE DON'T, UH, SO HERE'S, THERE'S, THIS IS LIKE THE SPRING HOUSE HERE, BUT THAT'S WHERE THE TREE LINES ARE.
YOU'RE NOT GONNA TOUCH ANYTHING.
SO THE SEWER SYSTEM WOULD, HOW WOULD THAT BE IN THERE IN THE WOODS? CAN CAN WE, I'M GONNA PULL UP THAT PLAN.
CAN WE STEP BACK TO THE MIC? YEAH, FOLLOW THIS UP PLEASE.
THEY WOULD HAVE TO CUT THE TREES DOWN TO PUT THE SEPTIC SYSTEM IN.
SAY THAT AGAIN? THEY WOULD HAVE TO CUT THE, SOME OF THE TREES DOWN TO PUT THE SEPTIC PUT.
[00:40:01]
AND THE REASON I WAS ASKING, UH, MUCH OF THE WILDLIFE THAT COMES INTO MY YARD COMES FROM THAT SPECIFIC WOODED AREA.UM, I'M AN EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF WILDLIFE TRAVEL THROUGH THERE AND LIVING THERE.
THAT WAS JUST MY THOUGHT OF HOW THAT'S GONNA, WHERE ARE THEY GONNA GO IF THERE'S A YOUR YARD? I HAVE A FENCE.
SO
BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE NOT PLANNING ON DISTURBING MOST OF THE TREES IN THAT AREA EXCEPT FOR THE RIGHT WHERE THE HOUSE IS GONNA BE.
THE HOUSE IS, WHICH IS OUT NEAR THE FRONT.
THAT'S ACTUALLY, THAT'S, THAT'S OPEN, THAT'S LAWN THAT'S BEING MAINTAINED AS THE ACTUAL LAWN FROM THE EXISTING LOT.
IT'S HARD TO, IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE THAT WHEN YOU WELL, I SAY THAT, THAT I WOULD THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING.
AND IS IT TRUE THAT THE SEWER SYSTEM WHERE IT'S CURRENTLY PLANNED IS IN A HIGHER ELEVATION THAN THE HOUSE? THAT IS CORRECT.
IS THAT COMMON TO HAVE IT THE SEWER AREA AT A SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER PUMP? IT'LL PUMP IT UP TO IT.
THE EXISTING LOT ALSO HAS THE GROUNDER PUMP ALSO.
THAT'S GOOD ISSUES AT THIS POINT.
AND YOU SAID YOU COMPLIED ALL THE LETTERS THAT, UH, MIKE AND AND ANTHONY HAVE, THEY HAVE PROVIDED YOU'RE GONNA COMPLY WITH ALL THOSE EXCEPT A COUPLE THINGS YOU'RE ASKING FOR.
YEAH, I MEAN, IN THE, UH, AGAIN, IN THE MCMAHON REVIEW LETTER, UM, EVERYTHING'S WILL COMPLY EXCEPT FOR THE SCENE THREE ISSUES REGARDING ROAD WIDENING CURBS OF SIDEWALKS.
SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE DOING THAT.
SO WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO HERE, JIM? WELL YOU'RE YOU'RE GONNA COME BACK? YEAH.
CAUSE WE, WE NEED TO, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO FILE FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION AND WE NEED TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF HOMEWORK ON YEAH, YEAH.
THAT BRINGS US TO THE RESIDENCE AT PROVIDENCE CENTER.
IS ANYBODY HERE A LITTLE SLOW? MR. CHAIRMAN, AS I, AS I SORT OF ALL ALLUDED TO LAST MONTH, THIS IS AN AMENDED FINAL PLAN AND PER OUR TYPICAL, YOU WOULDN'T SEE AN AMENDED FINAL PLAN UNTIL IT WAS A COMPLETELY CLEAN PLAN THAT THERE WERE NO ISSUES IN THE LETTER.
BUT GIVEN THE CHANGE THAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR, I THOUGHT IT WAS BEST TO BRING THEM OUT IN PUBLIC AND LET THEM, WE'RE NOT EXPECTING A RECOMMENDATION THAT I'VE SPOKEN TO BRAD.
WE'RE NOT EXPECTING ANY, ANY, ANY MOTION OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
WE'RE JUST SORT OF, KIND OF GOING THROUGH THE INITIAL LETTERS, GETTING SOME ISSUES OUT THERE, GETTING SOME QUESTIONS OUT THERE THAT YOU MAY HAVE PUBLIC MAY HAVE, WHATEVER.
AND THEN PER OUR NORMAL, WE'LL SORT OF WORK BEHIND THE SCENES TO GET A CLEAN PLAN.
THEY'LL COME BACK TO YOU WITH A CLEAN PLAN, A CLEAN LETTER, AND THEN WE'LL MOVE IT DOWN THE PROCESS.
WELL, THANK YOU JEFF AND I, THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW BECAUSE I THINK WE DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
I THINK WE ALL HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS.
SO, UH, UH, WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR PROPOSAL OR WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO DO.
AND THEN I THINK WE DO HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND QUITE FRANKLY, CONCERNS.
SO I'LL LET YOU GO FIRST THOUGH.
WELL, AGAIN, UH, AS JEFF JUST SAID, UH, UM, WE ARE JUST REALLY HERE TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE.
AS YOU KNOW, THERE WAS, IT WAS A CONCEPT OF PROVIDING A, UH, PHASES 1, 2, 3, AND FOUR ON THIS PROPERTY.
UH, WE'RE COMBINING PHASE TWO.
WE'RE ESSENTIALLY COMBINING TWO, THREE AND FOUR.
WE'RE ELIMINATING THE HOTEL AND IT IS PLACED PUTTING SOME ADDITIONAL, UH, APARTMENT BUILDINGS.
UH, WE DO HAVE THE GILMORE AND MCMAHON REVIEW LETTERS.
UH, THEY'RE MOSTLY WILL COMPLY ITEMS FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE.
UH, THE REMAINDER OF ITEMS OR THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE BELIEVE CAN BE DISCUSSED AND WORKED OUT, UH, BETWEEN THE ENGINEERS.
THERE'S NOTHING THAT WE'RE SEEING THAT, UH, IS, IS REALLY AN OBSTACLE THAT CAN'T BE RESOLVED.
UM, SO BRAD, I DON'T IF YOU WANT TO ADD, UH, JEFF, DO YOU HAVE THAT TWO PLANS? YEAH.
IS THERE ANY CHANCE YOU COULD SHRINK THEM UP A LITTLE BIT? PUT 'EM SIDE BY SIDE? YEAH, I CAN TRY.
YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO READ 'EM VERY WELL, BUT I CAN TRY.
[00:45:53]
YEAH, WE'RE GETTING THERE.MATT, HOW SHOULD WORK? HOW DO YOU MATT? JEFF, OKAY.
I'M GONNA START WITH, THIS IS A COMPARISON.
I'M GONNA DO A COMPARISON TO SHOW WHAT THE ORIGINAL PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED LOOKS LIKE.
AND, UH, THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE WILL REFLECT ON, ON THE PLAN ON THE LOWER LEFT HAND SIDE.
SO I'LL START WITH, UM, THIS, THE ORIGINAL LAYOUT THAT WAS, I, I THOUGHT IT WAS LONGER THAN IT WAS.
UM, WE RECEIVED FINAL APPROVAL ON MARCH 21ST, ON MARCH OF 2021.
UM, FOR, UH, PHASE ONE, WHICH IS THIS BUILDING HERE.
UM, ALL THE WAIVERS THAT GO ALONG WITH THIS PROJECT, ALL THE, UM, THE ZONING ISSUES WERE RESOLVED AT THIS PHASE AND THEY WERE INCORPORATED INTO THIS PLAN.
SO THERE SHOULDN'T BE A LOT OF TIME SPENT.
ABOUT, UH, WAIVERS CUZ WE HAVE WAIVERS ALREADY FROM THE PRIOR SUBMISSION, PRIOR APPROVAL, UM, ALONG WITH PHASE, PHASE ONE.
THIS, THIS SITE WAS KIND OF HAD FOUR, FOUR PHASES OF CONSTRUCTION.
PHASE ONE WOULD BE BUILDING A AND B, BUILDING C AND D IS ACTUALLY THE, WHAT THE UH, MAIN POINT OF OUR SUBMISSION.
THIS RIGHT NOW IS TO GET THIS BUILDING STARTED.
UM, THERE'S TWO, UH, MID-RISE APARTMENT BUILDINGS LOCATED ALONG, UH, THE, THE ROAD.
THIS WAS THE, UH, PROPOSED, UH, AMENITIES THAT WERE REQUIRED FOR THE ENTIRE PROJECT.
THERE WAS A POOL, UH, DOG, UH, PARK, UM, TENNIS COURT AND BICYCLE RACKS AND SO FORTH.
AND THEN AT THE VERY END OF THIS WE HAD, UM, AN APARTMENT BUILDING THAT I THINK IT WAS 120, UH, ROOMS THAT WERE IN THAT HOTEL, HOTEL, HOTEL, HOTEL.
UM, SO ALONG WITH THE IMPROVEMENTS FOR PHASE ONE, WE WERE REQUIRED TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS, UH, TO, UM, I CAN'T THINK OF THE NAME OF THIS ROAD.
I WAS, UM, OR THE OTHER WATER LEAK LANE.
AND THEN OUR CALL IS OUT FRONT AND WE, I'M SURE YOU'VE ALL RIDDEN IN IT A FEW TIMES.
I ALMOST CAUSED THE FIRST ACCIDENT ON THE ROAD CAUSE I WAS DAYDREAMING WHAT I WENT THROUGH AND I WAS HIT A GUY.
UM, SO WE MADE ALL THESE IMPROVEMENTS FOR PHASE ONE.
DID ALL THE WHITLING ON OUR COOLER, PUT THE ROUNDABOUT END.
UH, WE HAVE DRAINAGE PROVISIONS IN THE BACK.
UH, WE HAD A TRUNK, SEWER TRUNK MADE, HAD TO BE RUNG DOWN AND, UH, TIED INTO THE EXISTING TRUNK MADE, UH, THESE TWO ROADS, A, A ONE AND B, A ONE AND A TWO.
UH, WERE CONSTRUCTED MAIN ENTRANCE TO THIS BUILDING AND THERE'S A DROP OFF AREA OUT FRONT HERE.
UM, WERE, UH, CONSTRUCTED THIS CARS THAT WOULD COME IN HERE TO KIND OF GO THIS WAY.
AND THEN THEY MAKE THIS TURN HERE.
THIS IS DRIVE D I THINK, UH, THAT'S, THAT'LL, THAT'S IN PLACE AS WELL.
UM, WE BUILT A BERM ALONG THIS ENTIRE LENGTH OF PROPERTY, UM, THROUGH COORDINATION WITH THIS, UM,
[00:50:01]
THE, UH, ADJACENT, UH, YEAH, WE, WE WERE HERE WHEN THAT WHOLE THING WENT ON.YEAH, WE PLANNED IT AHEAD OF TIME SO IT WOULD GROW A LITTLE.
UM, AND WE GRADED THE WHOLE SITE OUT.
SO AFTER TAKING A LOOK AT THIS, WHEN WE WERE, WE WERE FINISHED WITH THE IMPROVEMENTS, WE REALIZED THAT'S A, THAT'S A LOT OF IMPROVEMENTS WERE DONE.
AND, UM, RATHER THAN HAVE THIS IN FOUR PHASES, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT TWO PHASES.
WE'RE GONNA BUILD THIS BUILDING, WE'RE GONNA PUT ALL THESE IMPROVEMENTS IN THE PARKING SPACES AND DETENTION AND SO MUCH DETENTION AND ALL THAT.
UM, THE CURBING WILL BE INSTALLED ALL THROUGH HERE AND, UH, THE STORM DRAINAGE AND EVERYTHING WILL BE INSTALLED AT THIS POINT.
UM, AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO DO NOW, THIS, THIS BUILDING IS, I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE IT'S PROBABLY JUST ABOUT READY FOR OCCUPANCY IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS.
UM, AND AS PART OF, OF THE APPROVAL PROCESS, WE WERE REQUIRED TO HAVE A PARK THAT SERVED THE WHOLE COMMUNITY.
AND, UM, AND WHAT WE DID INITIALLY WAS WE DECIDED, WELL LET'S, LET'S BUILD THIS BUILDING WIDE, PUT ADDITIONAL UNITS IN IT AND WE'LL, WE'LL PROVIDE AN AMENITY SPACE WITHIN THIS BUILDING THAT INCLUDES YOUR, YOUR POOL, YOUR, UM, SEE OUTDOOR AMENITIES INCLUDE THE POOL, THE CLUB, THERE'S A DROP OFF AREA, THERE'S OUTDOOR RESTAURANT.
THERE'S, UM, PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO, UH, SIT AND WATCH TV.
THERE'S ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT AMENITIES, UH, THAT ARE, INSTEAD OF HAVING THIS, THEY'RE ACTUALLY WITH THE BUILDING ITSELF, THIS BUILDING C AND D LOOKS LIKE THIS.
NOW IT'S GENERALLY THE SAME LAYOUT AND GRADING AND DRAINAGE AND ALL THAT WAS BASICALLY THE SAME AS WHAT YOU SEE HERE.
WELL, EXCUSE ME, I I I DON'T, IT LOOKS TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO ME.
I MEAN, I CAN SEE THIS FOOTAGE MIGHT BE THE SAME, BUT ARE YOU TURNING THE BUILDINGS OR WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE? NO, UH, WE, WE UNDERSTAND THE REMOVAL OF THE HOTEL TO PUT IN MORE UNITS.
THAT'S REALLY WHY WE'RE DOING IT AS AN AMENDED FINAL AS OPPOSED TO STARTING OVER.
SO I THINK THAT QUESTIONS WERE MORE FOCUSED ON, YOU KNOW, WHY THAT CHANGED FROM ABANDONING THEM.
ONE USE OF PUTTING IN MORE UNITS.
AND DOES THE INFRASTRUCTURE SUPPORT THE ADDITION OF THOSE ADDITIONAL UNITS? MIKE? NOW MY QUESTION THOUGH, JOE IS BUILDING, WHICH WAS BUILDING FOUR A AND OR C AND D, RIGHT? C AND D NOW IT'S JUST BUILDING C, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE BUILDINGS HAVE CHANGED.
YOU'RE CHANGING THE IT'S NOT THE SAME FOOTPRINT, IT'S NOT THE SAME FOOTPRINT IN THE BUILDINGS, RIGHT? WELL, YEAH, BUT AT THE TIME YOU SUBMIT A, A PRELIMINARY PLAN AND YOU, YOU START CONSTRUCTION, YOU, YOU COME IN WITH A BUILDING FOOTPRINT, THAT IS WHAT YOU INTEND TO BUILD.
AND YOU, YOU DO ALL YOUR TIMES INTO YOUR SANITARY, YOUR WATER AND SO FORTH, AS LONG AS IT FITS IN THAT AREA.
I UNDERSTAND, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE CHANGING THE, THE, THE INSIDE THE FOOTPRINT.
YOU'RE CHANGING THE SCOPE OF THE BUILDINGS, YOU'RE TURNING THEM OR YOU'RE, YOU'RE ADDING PARKING OR TAKING AWAY SOME PARKING OR, AND ALL.
AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, ALL THE, ALL THE DRAINAGE HAS TO BE ACCOMMODATED.
THE SEWER HAS TO BE COM ACCOMMODATED.
THE, THE WATER LINES HAVE TO OBVIOUSLY, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE CHANGING THE FOOTPRINT AND THAT'S WHY I'M, I'M HERE.
TO SHOW YOU THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO.
WHEN YOU CHANGE THAT FOOTPRINT, DOES IT CHANGE THE NUMBER OF UNITS, UH, THIS FOOTPRINT? YES, IT DOES.
UM, AT THE END OF THE, AT THE END OF THE DAY WHEN YOU, YOU TAKE THE, YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE OR RUG ORDINANCE AND, UH, THERE'S A, A BASE NUMBER THAT YOU USE.
AND THEN FOR EVERY AMENITY THAT YOU, UH, INSTALL, YOU GET A BONUS.
AND BASED UPON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND ALL THE AMENITIES THAT WE PROPOSED AND IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE MADE, FOR INSTANCE, THE ROUNDABOUT WAS, WAS ONE OF THEM.
UM, WE, UM, AND IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THIS, WE HAVE THIS PARK THAT IS, UM, I THINK THEY'RE WORKING ON THE PLANTS NOW.
WE, WE'VE DEVELOPED SEVERAL DIFFERENT LAYOUTS FOR IT, BUT UM, THAT'S STILL IN PROCESS.
[00:55:01]
UH, WE HAVE PICKLEBALL NOW AND, UH, THESE ARE THE DOG PARKS.UM, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN YOU ADD UP ALL THE, THE BUILDINGS, THE AMENITIES AND THE BONUS PROVISIONS WERE, WE COULD HAVE 700 UNITS AS COMPARED TO BEFORE WHEN IT WAS A HOTEL.
HOW MANY UNITS? UH, WE HAD, I THINK IT WAS 5 585.
SO WE'RE LOOKING AT, IT WAS 585 APARTMENTS IN 110 ROOM HOTEL.
SO, SO WHAT YOU'RE LOADING THIS UP WITH A LOT OF AMENITIES SO THAT YOU CAN PUT THE FULL 700 IN IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING.
UM, WHAT THEY DID, WHAT THEY DID WAS THEY, THEY, THEY WENT TO 20 OR 30 DIFFERENT APARTMENT COMPLEXES ALL THROUGHOUT THE EASTERN UNITED STATES.
AND THEY, THEY PICKED WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS MOST APPROPRIATE FOR THIS SITE AND WHAT WOULD BE, UM, BENEFICIAL TO THE FOLKS THAT LIVE IN EACH ONE OF THESE, UM, BUILDINGS.
YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF, THERE'S 281 UNITS IN HERE.
IT'D BE, IT'D BE TOUGH FOR THEM TO MAKE THE TRACK OVER TO THIS QUAD QUADRANT OVER HERE.
UM, WHICH BY THE WAY, THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS, THAT'S THE REAL SIZE OF IT RIGHT THERE.
SO I WASN'T HERE IN 2021 AS PART OF THE COMMISSION.
SO IF YOU COULD JUST QUICKLY GIVE ME A, A RUNDOWN.
THE CLUBHOUSE, THE DOG PARK, THE OTHER AMENITIES YOU MENTIONED THE ORIGINAL PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED, THOSE WERE FOR PUBLIC USE? NO, THEY'RE NOT.
THE PARK IS THE PARK IS THE OTHER THING.
THAT WAS THE, THE WAY THE, THE WEIGHT THAT WORD IS SET UP IS THEY'RE ALLOWED A BASE DENSITY OF 20 UNITS PER ACRE FOR PROVIDING A QUASI-PUBLIC PARK, WHICH MEANS THEY MAINTAIN IT, BUT WE'RE ALLOWED ACCESS TO IT OF AN ACRE OR LARGE WHERE THEY GET TWO ADDITIONAL UNITS.
THAT'S WHERE THE PARK COMES FROM TO PROVIDE OTHER AMENITIES FOR THE RESIDENTS.
AND I, I DON'T HAVE THEM MEMORIZED OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
THERE WERE CERTAIN GROUPS OF AMENITIES THAT WHEN THEY PROVIDED THOSE, THEY COULD ADD AN ADDITIONAL TWO UNITS PER ACRE.
IT'S STRUCTURED A LOT LIKE YOUR'S MIXED USE, WHICH I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WERE HERE WHEN WE DID YOUR'S, MIXED USE EITHER, BUT IT'S STRUCTURED A LOT LIKE THAT TO WHERE YOU CAN ADD ON AND YOU CAN GET UP TO ABOUT 30 UNITS PER ACRE.
AND SO THE PARK WE'RE REFERRING TO THAT WOULD BE USED BY RESIDENCE IS EAST, EAST CENTRAL PARK.
NO, IT IS THE CENTRAL PARK THERE.
IT'S, IT IS RIGHT TO THE LEFT OF THE, OF THE, THE BUILDING THEY'RE BUILDING NOW.
AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST FOR THE RESIDENCE.
EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST FOR THANK YOU.
HOW MUCH, HOW MUCH OF THIS IS NOT BEING PUT IN IT, IT'S UH, NOT JUST EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE RESIDENCE.
YOU BROUGHT UP A RESTAURANT AND A COUPLE OF, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT'S GOING TO BE SHARED? UH, FOR PUBLIC AND RESIDENCE? UH, WELL FOR INSTANCE, THERE'S A CONNECTION HERE WITH WHITE GROUPS THAT WE PUT IN, UM, VOTER RETAINING WALL TO ACCOMMODATE IT.
THAT WAS IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH, I REMEMBER THAT.
AND THEN, UM, THAT SIDEWALK COMES DOWN AND CONNECTS HERE AND GETS 'EM OUT TO THE, UH, THE, UH, SIDEWALK ALONG THE FRONTAGE.
UM, THEY CAN WALK ACROSS THE STREET.
NOW WE HAVE, WE'VE PROVIDED WALKWAYS TO GET FROM UM, I THINK THERE'S ONE HERE, THERE'S ONE THERE.
UH, THIS ENABLES THE FOLKS TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS, UH, THE, THE CROSSWALK.
AND THEN WE INSTALLED SIDEWALKS IN NEW CURB INSIDE OF THE, APART THE, UH, RETAIL CENTER TO ACCOMMODATE THEM.
AND IT MAKES IT REAL EASY FOR THEM TO GET BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN ONE, ONE SITE AND THE OTHER.
BUT THAT'S PHILLIP THE ONLY, BECAUSE THERE'S QUITE FRANKLY, THERE AREN'T, THESE ARE THE ONLY PLACE AROUND THAT WOULD BE IMPACT OR IMPACTED.
CAUSE EVERYTHING AROUND IT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, RETAIL OR OPEN, OPEN, UH, LOT OPEN FRONTAGE.
SO, SO PHASE ONE, THIS IS PHASE ONE, PHASE TWO
[01:00:01]
WOULD, WOULD BE, WOULD'VE BEEN THE BACK UNIT.THIS SEEMS TO NEVER WORK, RIGHT? HEY JOE, QUESTION PLEASE.
UM, SINCE, SINCE THE UPPER RIGHT CORNER IS WHAT WE APPROVED BACK IN 21 OR WHATEVER IT WAS, AND NOW WHAT'S STYLE ON THE LOWER LEFT CORNER IS TO ME IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
I MEAN THE, THE FOOTPRINT OF THE SIZE OF THE PUMP, BUT THE BUILDINGS AND THE TURNED THEM, THEY MOVED THEM, THEY ELIMINATED SOME STUFF.
THE THE POOL AREA AND ALL THAT.
WHAT'S, WHAT'S AND RULES AROUND THAT? WELL, WE'RE, WE'RE SO AT A STANFORD CONSULTANT LEVEL, WE'RE PROCESSING, PROCESSING THIS AS AN AMENDED FINAL PLAN.
THEY'RE NOT COMING IN FOR APPROVAL.
SO THEY'RE ONLY AMENDING THEIR FINAL APPROVAL.
SO IT'S, THERE'S NO USE ISSUES.
THERE'S NO, ALL WE'RE DOING IS GOING THROUGH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT IT AS THEY REMOVED A HOTEL AND ADDED APARTMENT UNITS TO AN EXISTING APARTMENT HEAVY SITE.
SO WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT WHETHER THEY CAN SATISFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE REVIEW LETTERS.
AND IT'S NOT REALLY A MATTER OF WHETHER THEY CAN HAVE THE, IF THEY SATISFY THE REVIEW LETTERS ON THE AMENDMENTS, THEN THEY'RE, THEN THEY'RE GOOD TO GO.
CAUSE IT'S JUST, WE'RE JUST AMENDING A FINAL APPROVAL.
I I THINK ONE WAY TO LOOK AT THIS IS THE ORIGINAL PLAN IN SOME SENSE WAS MORE OF A MASTER PLAN.
THEY HAD DIFFERENT PHASES IN THERE.
I THINK AS BRAD SAID, THEY'RE A FEW WEEKS AWAY FROM, FROM STARTING THE SECOND PHASE AS WE WOULD DO AN S E I OR ANY OF OUR OTHER LARGER CORPORATE CAMPUSES.
SOMETIMES BUILDINGS CHANGE AND IT'S CHANGING THE MASTER PLAN.
WELL, I MEAN THE ENGINEERING'S GOING TO CHANGE, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE AMENDED FINAL PLAN DOES IS IT, IT VERIFIES THAT THAT ENGINEERING, IT DOESN'T SORT OF START THE PROCESS OVER.
SO OTHER, UH, SO OTHER THAN US LOOKING AT THE HOTELS SLASH NEW APARTMENT BUILDING, MAKING THAT CHANGE THE LAYOUT OF THE EXISTING BUILDINGS, WE HAVE NO BEARING ON, AGAIN, IF, IF THERE'S SOME DESIGN ISSUES, I, I THINK THAT YOU CAN CERTAINLY MAKE SOME COMMENT ABOUT THAT.
I I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S INAPPROPRIATE.
UM, IF, IF THERE'S SOMETHING YOU SEE THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU WANNA SEE A BUILDING TWIST OR A YOU, YOU HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT SOMETHING WITH THE LAYOUT.
I I, AGAIN, WE'RE STILL WORKING THROUGH THE ENGINEERING AND THEN THAT'S SORT OF WHAT THE AMENDED FINAL PLAN PROCESS CLEANS UP IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ENGINEERING STILL WORKS.
WE'RE GOING FROM A MAJOR HOTEL TO APARTMENTS AND THAT IN MIND, LOOK, THESE ARE MAJOR, THESE GARDEN APARTMENTS, THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT YOU BIG LIKE, LIKE THESE BOAT, BUT IT'S STILL A CHANGE THAT WOULD ALMOST NEED JUST, I WOULD THINK START FROM GROUND ZERO.
AND EVERYBODY I TALKED TO SAID, WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY BUILDING NEXT TO THE WAGMAN'S COMPLEX? I MEAN, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S OVERBUILT.
I'M TELLING YOU WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING.
WELL TECHNICALLY WE'RE GOING FROM 590 OR 700, 695 UNITS WITH THE HOTEL AND THE APARTMENTS TO 700 UNITS.
THAT'S, BUT YOU'VE GOT TO ADMIT THAT THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HOTEL AND THE PEOPLE THAT RESIDE THERE OR COME IN STAY BURDEN.
YEAH, I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE VERSUS SOMEBODY THAT LIVES THERE.
I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE BURDEN ON TRAFFIC.
I THINK IT'S A LOT MORE TRANSITORY.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK IT'S A LOT.
LOOK AT THE HOTELS WE HAVE NOW, THEY'RE EMPTY LOTS, RIGHT? AND THEY'RE NOT BEING USED.
SO, BUT I THINK HE DOES PUT A BURDEN ON, AS YOU SAY, TRAFFIC, IT PUTS A BURDEN ON, I THINK JUST THE WHOLE INFRASTRUCTURE AROUND THE DEPARTMENT, RIGHT? THE, THE, AND, AND THAT'S WHAT THE AMENDED FINAL PLAN PROCESS IS TRYING TO DO.
THAT'S WHAT ANTHONY'S TRYING TO DO, IS HE'S LOOKING AT IT TO SEE, OKAY, THIS IS WHAT WE HAD AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GETTING.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE? WHAT DOES THAT NEED TO CHANGE? SAME THING WITH GILMORE IS IS THEY'RE LOOKING TO SEE THE LAYOUT'S DIFFERENT.
WHAT DO WE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR STORMWATER? SO, WELL, BUT I'M SAYING THAT THERE'S ANOTHER ASPECT THERE THAT THESE GENTLEMEN DON'T LOOK AT, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED AND SOME MORE FAMILIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE IN THE AREA, GOING TO THE SCHOOLS, GOING TO THE GAS STATIONS, YOU KNOW, MORE ALL, YOU KNOW, NOT JUST THE TRAFFIC THAT PULLS ON ONTO OUR COLA ROAD, BUT THAT IMPACTS TRAFFIC THROUGH THAT WHOLE AREA.
BUT THEY'RE ALSO SHOPPING AT A MAJOR SHOPPING CENTER, WHICH IS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET AND THEY HAVE ACCESS TO IT FROM WALKING TRAILS, WALKING PAST SIDEWALKS AND SO FORTH.
I, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I'M MORE CONCERNED, I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE
[01:05:01]
INFRASTRUCTURE.NOT ONLY IN THIS FOOTPRINT, BUT IN THE GENERAL AREA.
THESE PEOPLE ARE GONNA LEAVE HERE NOW.
THEY MAY HAVE TWO OR THREE CARS DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THEIR FAMILY ARE GONNA BE MOVING OUT HERE ALL THE TIME.
GOING TO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE TOWNSHIP.
WELL, YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL STUDY WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT, IMPACT STUDY, UM, THERE ARE VERY FEW, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE, BUT THE, THE, THERE'S A, THERE WAS A SURPLUS IN TERMS OF WHAT, UM, THE SPRINGS IN THE WAY OF SCHOOL TAXES.
BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT USING THE KIDS.
THERE'S NO KIDS TO USE THE FACILITIES, THE, THE, UM, THE SCHOOL SYSTEM.
SO THERE ARE, WHEN YOU SAY MOVE FAMILIES IN, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT I THINK 80, THE NUMBER 80% ONE, ONE NUMBER ONE TWO BEDROOM MEETING.
UM, THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T HAVE KIDS.
THEY DON'T, A LOT OF 'EM DON'T EVEN HAVE WIVES OR HUSBANDS.
UM, SO THEY GOT FRIENDS, RIGHT? THEY HAVE FRIENDS AND RELATIVES.
THEY COME AND GONNA COME THERE, COME IN HERE FROM OTHER PLACES, COME IN AT TRAFFIC TO THE COMMUNITY.
WELL, I MEAN, INITIALLY WHEN THIS WAS APPROVED, THERE WERE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDIES THAT WERE DONE FOR APARTMENT BUILDINGS.
SO THE ONLY THING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REALLY IS SWAPPING OUT A HOTEL AND THE TRAFFIC THAT THAT GENERATES IT'S VERSUS AN APARTMENT BUILDING.
I DON'T, HOW DO YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE? I CAN'T TELL YOU.
I THINK I SEE, I SEE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT ON THE TRAFFIC, NOT JUST IN THIS ARCOLA ROAD, BUT IN THE WHOLE GENERAL AREA.
MY, MY QUESTION WOULD BE THE DYNAMICS OF CHANGING TO A RESIDENTIAL APARTMENT DWELLING AND THE HOTEL AND HOW WE LOOKED AT THE DYNAMICS OF THE TRAFFIC.
UH, HOW MANY NON-RESIDENT PARKING SPACES ARE PLACED IN, HAS THAT CHANGED? HAS IT INCREASED IN BUMPER? I'M SURE THERE HAS TO BE.
THERE'S A FORMULA FOR HOW MANY ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES OUTSIDE THE, UH, ACTUAL RESIDENCE.
WELL, THE RESIDENTS HAVE ON HAVE 1.71, UM, UNIT 1.7 SPACES PER UNIT.
THAT'S, THAT'S QUITE A BIG NUMBER.
UM, AND A LOT OF MARKETING BE USED, AND THIS IS GOING OFF OF DATA THAT THEY'VE BEEN WORKING WITH FOR YOU,
HOW ARE WE DOING THAT IS, IT'S JUST GONNA BE PART OF THE NORMAL PROCESS OF AMENDING THE ORIGINAL PLAN.
TO ANSWER GENERAL, I GUESS IN TERMS OF THE TRAFFIC, SO WE DID TAKE A LOOK AT THE COMPARISONS.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE, WE HAD PREVIOUS, PREVIOUSLY REVIEWED AN APPROVED TRAFFIC STUDY FOR THE PREVIOUS USE THAT INCLUDED THE HOTELS, ET CETERA.
SO THERE WAS A, UH, SAID LIKE A SENSITIVITY EVALUATION BETWEEN THE DIFFERENCES OF THE TRIPS GENERATED WITH THE PREVIOUS USE AND WITH THE CHANGES.
UM, SO THE, WHAT WE NOTED IN THE AFTERNOON, FOR EXAMPLE, A GIVEN THAT THE COMPARISON OF THE UNIT MODIFICATION, A SLIGHT REDUCTION IN THE PEAK HOUR TRIPS WITH THE COMPARISON.
SO WE WENT FROM 288 WITH THE PREVIOUS USE, INCLUDING THE HOTEL, ET CETERA, DOWN TO 2 73.
SO IT'S NOT A GREAT TREMENDOUS CHANGE, BUT IT'S A SLIGHT REDUCTION IN THE, IN THE TRIPS IN TERMS OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
SO YOU HAVE THE ROUNDABOUT THAT WAS PROVIDED, UM, YOU KNOW, THE IMPROVEMENTS ALONG THE, UM, WATER LOOP WITH THE, WITH THE TURN LANES, ET CETERA.
SO THOSE STILL ARE NECESSARY AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE STILL PART OF THE APPLICATION, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THE ROUNDABOUTS ARE BEING COMPLETED.
UM, AND THEN THERE'S THE OFFSITE IMPROVEMENTS, WHICH ARE STILL REQUIRED REGARDLESS OF THIS CHANGE, WHICH ARE STILL NEEDED DESPITE THE CHANGE AT THE OFFSITE INTERSECTION WITH MENNONITE AND ARCOLA, UH, WITH THE MODIFICATION OF THOSE TURN LANES AND SIGNALS.
UM, SO THAT, THAT WAS OUR, YOU KNOW, INITIAL DIVE INTO THE NUMBERS TO TRY TO GET A COMPARISON TO WHETHER WE'RE INCREASING TRAFFIC AND WHETHER THAT WOULD BE A CONCERN FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE BASED ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WAS PROPOSED PROVIDED.
WE DIDN'T, THERE WAS NOTHING THAT STOOD OUT TO US AS TO STUDY.
HOW FAR OUT DOES THAT GO? BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE WHAT YOU'RE FROM YOUR STUDY.
IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE TRAFFIC THAT'S HITTING ON CAR ROAD OR 29 IN NORTH ROAD WHERE THEY INTERSECT, I CAN SEE NO IMPACT.
[01:10:01]
MUCH THE SAME HOTEL PEOPLE ARE DRIVING OUT TOO.BUT MY QUESTION IS THOSE IMPACT, HOW ARE YOU STUDYING? HOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE COMING OUT OF THERE NOW WE'RE GONNA GO TO ANDERSON PARK.
HOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE GONNA GO OUT THERE, GONNA GO TO THE HIGH SCHOOL? THE HOTEL PEOPLE WOULDN'T BE DOING THAT.
IT DOES TAKE INTO ACCOUNT, UM, THE INTERSECTION OF ONE 13 AND MENNONITE ROAD.
THEY'RE DOING IMPROVEMENTS FOR THAT.
UM, WE JUST FINALLY GOT THE RIGHT OF WAY FOR THEM AT OUR LAST BOARD MEETING.
THERE ARE IMPROVEMENTS COMING TO THAT.
WILL ADDITIONAL PEOPLE, WILL THERE BE PEOPLE GOING TO ANDERSON FARM PARK OR MAY THERE BE PEOPLE GOING TO THE HIGH SCHOOL? CERTAINLY.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THOSE NUMBERS ARE NECESSARILY QUANTIFIABLE, UM, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE VISITING AT A HOTEL AND YOU WANT TO GO TO A PARK, ANDERSON FARM PARK IS THE CLOSEST PARK.
BUT I THINK THE CHANGE OF SOMEBODY THAT'S HERE STAYING OVERNIGHT AND HEADING OFF THE KING OF PRUSSIA OR WHEREVER THEY'RE GOING, IS NOT GOING TO ANDERSON PARK.
IT'S READILY AS RESIDENTS THAT NOT WHAT WOULD BE THE CLOSEST HOTEL TO TO, TO ANDERSON FARM PARK.
AND IF THERE'S AN EVENT LIKE THE MUSIC FEST THAT WE HAD THIS LAST WEEKEND, IT WOULD BE THE MOST LOGICAL PLACE FOR THEM TO STAY.
YEAH, IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE THE CLOSEST PLACE FOR THEM TO STAY.
SO I, I THINK GENERALLY YOUR CONCERNS ARE, ARE MERIT.
I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THE, THERE'S THAT GREAT OF A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE UNIT TYPES.
OKAY, WELL I, AND WE MAY AGREE YOU DISAGREE ON THAT.
I'M NOT TALKING TO THE BOARD HERE.
I DISAGREE THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GONNA HAVE A BIG IMPACT NO MATTER IF IT WAS A HOTEL OR NOT.
LET ALONE NOW YOU'RE ADDING MORE IMPACT.
WE'RE STILL IN COMPLIANCE WITH I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE NOT, I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE NOT.
THE QUESTION I'M ASKING IS NOW THAT THIS HAS CHANGED, IS THERE ANY IMPACT THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE? AND WHAT I HEARD IS NONE THAT THERE REALLY IS NO, AS LONG AS IT MEETS THE ENGINEERING STANDARDS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED, IT'S PRETTY MUCH, IT'S PRETTY MUCH, IT'S AN NO, IT HAS TO MEET NEW ENGINEERING STANDARDS BECAUSE THE LAYOUT IS NEW FROM A STORMWATER STANDARDS.
BECAUSE THE SHAPE OF THE BUILDING AND THE PAVEMENT, THE IMPERVIOUS IS ALL DIFFERENT.
IT'S GOTTA MEET NEW ENGINEERING STANDARDS FOR THAT MM-HMM.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S BEEN A CHANGE BETWEEN 2020 AND 2023, WHO KNOWS.
BUT, SO IT'S GOTTA MEET THE CURRENT STANDARDS FOR ENGINEERING.
AND ANTHONY'S LETTER SAYS THAT THEY'RE GOING FROM BY THIS CHANGE.
THEY'RE GOING FROM 283 TRIPS A DAY TO 273 TRIPS A DAY.
BUT AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A COMPLETE IMPACT BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE NOW ARE RESIDENTS VERSUS S SO I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENT IMPACT THERE.
THIS IS, I MEAN, RESIDENTS HAVE MORE FIXED TRAFFIC PATTERN WHERE THEY COME AND GO.
THEY WORK, THEY, THEY LEAVE IN THE MORNING, THEY COME BACK AT NIGHT, HOTEL, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COME AND GO ON MUCH DIFFERENT.
LET'S, SO LET'S MOVE ON TO THE NEXT.
WELL, AND I DON'T THINK MOST OF THE TOWNSHIP IS.
SO JUST SO YOU KNOW, YOU ASK THE PEOPLE ON THE STREET OUT THERE, WHAT THEY THINK OF THAT RIGHT NOW.
AND YOU'RE GONNA GET IN A NEAR POLE WHERE I THINK, I THINK YOU NEED TO KEEP THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN HOW PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT RESIDENCES VERSUS A HOTEL SEPARATE FROM THE PENDING APPLICATION.
EVEN IF THIS APPLICATION WASN'T TREATED AS AMENDED FINAL AND STARTED OVER AND WE WERE AT TENTATIVE OR PRELIMINARY, THE CONVERSATION IS STILL GOING TO GO ROUGHLY THE SAME WAY BECAUSE, UM, IT'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THEY DON'T NEED ZONING RELIEF.
THEY DON'T NEED ANYTHING TO MAKE THIS CHANGE.
THAT'S WHY WE PROCESSED IT AS AMENDED FINAL.
SO, AND, AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, I I, I MET WITH THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION FROM, UM, THE TOWNS COMMUNITY JUST A COUPLE MONTHS AGO.
AND I HAVE A VERIFICATION IN, IN AN EMAIL THAT THEY WERE HAPPY WITH THE NEW CONFIGURATION AND, UM, WE SHOWED PROFILES FROM EVERY, EVERY ONE OF THEIR UNITS INTO THE, INTO OUR, OUR COMPLEX.
AND UM, WELL, YOU DO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS BOARD REPRESENTS THE WHOLE TIME.
SHE'S NOT JUST THAT HOUSING PLAN THAT'S, WELL, BUT I GUESS AREN'T THEY THE MOST IMMEDIATELY IMPACT? I DON'T THINK SO.
SO LET'S NOT QUIT TALKING ABOUT IT.
I THINK THERE'S AN IMPACT ON THE TOTAL TIME SHEET ON THIS ISSUE.
BUT I, I WANT TO BE CLEAR ON THE, THE 20 OR SO APARTMENT UNITS OR IS IS IT ON THE WHOLE PROJECT? WELL,
UM, I, YOU KNOW, I I, UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S NOTHING TO
[01:15:01]
DO ABOUT THE WHOLE PROJECT.I WISH I WAS ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION THAT I, I WISH, I WISH NOW, UM, AND I'LL SAY IT, I WISH NOW WOULD'VE WE DONE, WE WOULD'VE DONE A BETTER DEEPER DIALOGUE.
WELL, IF YOU REMEMBER YOU, UM, RECOMMENDED DENIAL.
SO, SO THAT'S, THAT'S MOOT THOUGH, BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY PASSED.
SO NOW I'M LOOKING AT IT SAYING, OKAY, HOW CAN I CONTROL WHAT ALREADY TO GILLEY'S POINT OR BOB'S POINT WHERE WE'RE HEARING OUT THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THIS, HOW CAN WE MINIMIZE A NEW IMPACT? AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT.
I'M TRYING, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO, WHERE I'M TRYING TO KEEP IT FOCUSED, IS TO RESPECT YOUR CONCERNS FACT, WHICH I DO AND I HEAR THEM.
UM, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE, THIS IS A, UH, THIS IS A LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION, WHICH IS MORE OF A, WILL THEY COMPLY WITH HERE WHAT YOUR PROFESSIONALS ASK THEM TO COMPLY WITH.
WE'RE NOT AT THE, IF THEY NEEDED AN ORDINANCE CHANGE, I UNDERSTAND YOU WOULD BE ALL THESE CONCERNS WOULD BE AT THE FOURTH.
THAT'S WHY I ASKED THE QUESTION, WHAT IS OUR ROLE HERE AT THIS POINT? AND, AND YOU KNOW, DO WE JUST SAY, OKAY, WE APPROVE OUR, AND I KNOW YOU'RE NOT ACT LOOKING FOR THAT TONIGHT.
WE'RE NOT GONNA GIVE THAT TONIGHT.
BUT AT SOME POINT YOU'RE GONNA SAY, IS IT OKAY TO CHANGE IT FROM A HOTEL TO APARTMENT BILLY? AND IF THAT'S WHAT OUR ROLE IS AT THIS POINT, THEN WE'LL, WE'LL DEAL WITH THAT.
WELL, I THINK IT IS, BUT I'M TRYING TO STATE IT IN A WAY THAT RESPECTS YOUR CONCERNS.
WELL, AND I WANTED TO GET MY CONCERNS OUT.
THAT'S ALL I'M ABOUT AND WE DISAGREE ON IT.
I'M FINE WITH MY CONCERNS AND YOU KNOW, I'M FINE.
I I'M JUST CONFUSED WHY WE HAD THIS TONIGHT.
WHAT IS THE INPUT YOU'RE TRYING TO, SIR, BECAUSE JEFF, YOU MENTIONED THAT THE ENGINEERING HASN'T FIGURED OUT YET.
IT WOULD BE FIGURED OUT IN FINAL.
SO WHY WILL WE EVEN HEAR AMENDED FINAL IF WE HAVEN'T DONE THE ENGINEERING? WE WANTED TO GIVE THE BOARD AN UPDATE GIVING WE WANTED, I WANTED, I WANTED TO BRING THE BOARD INTO THE PUBLIC, THE STEPS IN THE, BECAUSE IT BY A MINUTE FINAL, ALL I REALLY NEEDED TO DO BY OUR POLICIES, BRING IT TO YOU WHEN IT'S COMPLETELY CLEAN.
WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ANY CHOICE BUT TO SAY, HEY, ALRIGHT, YOU HAVE TO MOVE IT FORWARD BECAUSE EVERYTHING'S COMPLETELY CLEAN.
THEY'VE ALREADY SPENT THE TIME AND THE MONEY SEE EVERYTHING COMPLETELY CLEAN.
I'M ASKING, I ASKED THEM TO COME EARLY SO THAT THEY COULD EXPLAIN WHY THEY WERE WANTED TO CHANGE, YOU KNOW, WHY THEY WANTED TO CHANGE THE HOTEL AND WHAT THE BASIS AND WHAT THE CHANGES THEY WERE MAKING WERE SO THAT YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND IT AND THE PUBLIC WOULD UNDERSTAND IT AND THE BOARD WOULD UNDERSTAND IT WHEN IT COMES TO THEM.
WHEN IT'S A COMPLETELY CLEAN LETTER, WHEN THERE'S NO INPUT ALLOWED.
I MEAN, THERE'S REALLY NO INPUT THAT YOU CAN GIVE IT.
IF, IF THERE'S SOME LAYOUT INPUT OR SOME OTHER DESIGN ELEMENT THAT YOU WANT TO LOOK AT OR YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING, HEY, YOU KNOW, MOVE THIS ENTRANCE A LITTLE BIT THAT WAY.
THAT'S SORT OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR AT THIS POINT.
BUT I THINK THAT AT LEAST, AND I UNDERSTOOD THAT, JEFF, I UNDERSTOOD THAT, BUT I ALSO UNDERSTOOD THAT IT WAS MY OPPORTUNITY TO SAY THAT I NOT HAPPY WITH THE WHOLE, OR AT LEAST THAT CHANGED, BUT JUST FORGET THE WHOLE THING.
I'M NOT HAPPY WITH THAT CHANGE.
I, I, I TAKE, THIS IS MY CHANCE TO GIVE THAT INPUT.
AND THAT'S ALL I'M TAKING IT FROM.
I SAID, I'VE MADE MY POINT NOW THAT, YOU KNOW, TELL US WHAT WE NEED TO DO WITH THIS, IF WE'LL MOVE ON.
WELL, RIGHT NOW NOTHING BECAUSE THIS WAS INFORMATIONAL, JUST SO THAT YOU GUYS HAD A HEADS UP REALLY.
SO, UH, THEY'RE NOT LOOKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION FROM YOU TONIGHT.
SO, AND IT WAS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, RIGHT, THAT'S MORE, THAT'S WHAT I USED IT AS MY OPPORTUNITY.
CAN I HAVE SOMETHING JUST BACK OPEN WHEN YOU SAID GARDEN TYPE APARTMENTS? YEAH, IT'S A, THIS, IT'S A THREE STORY BUILDING.
SO IT'S A TYPICAL AND THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE SIDEWALKS AROUND THE BUILDING, INTO THEIR, EACH ONE OF THEIR UNITS.
AND I, I DON'T REMEMBER HOW, HOW TALL WAS, HOW MANY STORIES WAS THE HOTEL SUPPOSED? I THINK IT WAS FIVE, FOUR OR FIVE.
I THINK IT WAS FIVE STORY MISTAKE.
AND THAT WAS AGAIN, ONE OF THE REASONS WE WENT, I VISITED THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION CUZ I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY WERE SATISFIED THAT WE WEREN'T INCREASING BUILDING HEIGHT STATE INTERFERE WITH THEIR LINE OF SIGHT AND ALL THAT.
AND THEY, THEY WERE HAPPY WITH THAT.
MY RECOMMENDATION IS THE NEXT TIME THIS IS PRESENTED IS NOT TO CHARACTERIZE IT AS JUST, WE'RE JUST GETTING RID OF A HOTEL AND PUT APARTMENTS IN BECAUSE IT, WE KIND OF STARTED OFF WITH THAT.
AND THEN AS WE ASK MORE QUESTIONS, NO, THERE'S A LOT MORE TO THIS.
SO ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO DECISION, IT GOES TO THE BOARD.
I, EVERYONE HERE IN THE ROOM SHOULDN'T GO SAY, HEY, THIS IS ALL THIS IS.
CUZ AS YOU CAN SEE IT WAS CONSERVATION WAS, HEY, JUST, JUST FOCUS ON THE HOTEL.
I WOULDN'T BE HERE IF I DIDN'T WANT TO BE UP FRONT WITH YOU FOLKS.
I'M SAYING CORRECT, NOT JUST YOU GUYS.
THERE WAS A LOT OF COMMENTS OF IT.
JUST FOCUS ON THE HOTEL ONE WAY THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE.
AND COULD YOU TELL ME ONCE MORE ABOUT WHY IT'S NOT A HOTEL? BECAUSE WE DON'T, IS IT, IS IT JUST A NOT A GOOD BUSINESS RIGHT NOW IN THIS PARTICULAR
[01:20:01]
LOCATION? EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING.A LOT OF, A LOT OF STUFF THAT DRIVES THESE THINGS OR WHAT, WHAT'S IN VOGUE AT, AT, AT THE TIME AND WHAT'S, WHO'S DOING WHAT? I MEAN, THE APARTMENTS, THEY, THEY'RE NOT RENTING.
THEY'RE NOT, THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE ENOUGH ROOMS AND THEY DON'T NEED ANYMORE.
SO WE COULD BUILD A HOTELS NOT RENT.
YOU SAID YOU SAID APARTMENTS ARE GETTING BETTER.
AND YOU CAN END UP WITH A BUILDING THAT'S 10% OCCUPIED.
AND WHAT, WHAT GOOD IS THAT THOUGH? THAT DOESN'T HELP ANY, WHAT WOULD WE HAVE THE UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE A LOT OF TRAFFIC AND THE ADJACENT RETAIL COMMUNITY.
UM, THIS IS GOING TO DRIVE A LOT OF THOSE BUSINESSES.
WE GOT BUSINESSES START ONE MONTH AND THEY'RE OUT THE NEXT, UM, THIS, THIS SHOULD HELP THAT.
WE'RE, WE'RE COUNTING ON THAT.
AND UM, WE'VE DESIGNED MANY OF THE ELEMENTS AND THIS THING ARE DESIGNED SO THAT THERE'S A, A CROSSOVER WITH THE PEDESTRIAN TRAP.
WELL I, ANY OTHER POINTS IF ANYBODY WANTS TO MAKE OR ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR, SO WE HAVE NO ACTION AT THIS POINT, UH, SINCE, SINCE THIS IS INFORMATIVE, JUST KIND OF GO BACK TO I WAS IT HEARING IN 2021? YEP.
WAS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THIS RESIDENTIAL AREA BEING ADJACENT TO THE RETAIL AREA ON ANY TYPE OF AGREEMENT WITH THE PTC SECURITY DOING ANY TYPE OF OBSERVING OF THE PARK THAT'S BEING USED? WAS THAT PART OF ANY OF THE DISCUSSION? NOT THAT I REMEMBER.
I, I, I'M, UM, I THINK THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE, THE, THE APARTMENTS WOULD HAVE THEIR OWN SECURITY.
THEY ONLY BE, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EITHER BECAUSE IT'S THEIR INSURANCE AND WHATEVER THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO.
I KNOW THAT THERE IS A CONTRIBUTION THE DEPARTMENTS ARE MAKING TOWARDS OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT BASED ON THE IMPACT THAT WAS PART OF THE, THE ORIGINAL CONDITIONAL USE.
IT'S A FIVE STORY HOTEL ACCORDING TO YEAH.
JUST IDENTIFY YOURSELF OR YEAH, SURE.
BILL FELTON, 1 33 OLD STATE ROAD.
UH, SO, YOU KNOW, I'M, OTHER THAN SEEING IT BEING BUILT, I WAS NOT FAMILIAR WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT OR ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.
BUT ON THE ORIGINAL PLAN, THE TWO L-SHAPED BUILDINGS AND THE BUILDING ALL THE WAY TO THE LEFT, WERE THEY ALL HOTEL ROOMS OR WERE THE TWO L-SHAPED BUILDINGS? APARTMENTS.
AND THEN ON THE NEW PLAN, YEAH, THAT'S EVERYTHING.
SO ON THE NEW PLAN, WHAT'S, WHAT'S REPLACING THE TWO L-SHAPED BUILDINGS AND THE, UH, THE HOTEL? ARE THOSE ALL, UH, GARDEN STYLE APARTMENTS? SINCE I CAN'T GET THAT THING TO WORK, I'M JUST GONNA WORK.
SO THIS BUILDING RIGHT HERE IS THE CLUBHOUSE, UH, WHICH IS, UH, THIS WHOLE AREA IS THE AMENITY SPACE FOR THIS BUILDING, WHICH CONSISTS OF BASICALLY THIS ONE BUILDING.
IT HAS UNDERGROUND PARKING, UM, AND, UH, YES, SO THAT THE BUILDING'S ACTUALLY THE HOTEL, OR NOT THE HOTEL, BUT THE, UH, THE, THE APARTMENTS ACTUALLY TAKE THIS SPACE RIGHT HERE.
AND AND THAT'S A FIVE STORY BUILDING THERE.
AND THEN, THEN THE REMAINING I'VE SEEN THE FOUR, IT'S A FOUR STORY.
THEN THE REMAINING THREE BUILDINGS ARE, THEY'RE THREE STORY BUILDINGS.
AND, AND THEN ON THE TOP RIGHT BUILDING, I GUESS IT'S D AND C ON YOUR ORIGINAL PLAN, WHAT ARE THOSE TWO WHITE INFILL AREAS VERSUS THE GREEN AREA? IS THAT THE ROOF OF A PARKINGS? IT IS GARAGE.
THERE'S, UM, THIS IS, THIS BUILDING C HAS PODIUM PARKING.
THERE'S LIKE A, THERE'S AN ENTRANCE AT THE BACK HERE.
ALL THE PARKING IS UNDERNEATH THIS, THIS WHOLE BUILDING AND THIS THE AREA.
AND GREEN IS WHERE THE, UH, THE, THE GRASS WOULD BE THE, THE POOR AREA.
ALL THE AMENITIES WOULD BE WITHIN THAT, THAT AREA.
AND I'M NOT SURE, CAUSE I AM SEEING THE ARCHITECTURAL PLANS LATELY, WHAT THEY HAVE IN THE, IN THE OTHER TWO COURTYARDS.
AND JUST ONE MORE QUESTION ON, ON BACK TO THE, UH, THE, UH,
[01:25:01]
GARDEN STYLE APARTMENTS IS, WHERE'S THE PARKING FOR, FOR ALL THOSE? OR THE, THE PARKING IS ALL AROUND THE, THE PERIMETERS.SO IT IS SURFACE PARKING AND THERE'S ALSO, UH, I THINK IT'S 54 GARAGE, LIKE CARRIAGE STYLE GARAGE, UH, PARKING SPACES FOR THOSE WHO WANT, WANT A GARAGE, THERE'LL BE FULL END CLOSE, I'LL HAVE DOORS ON 'EM.
AND, UM, THEY, THEY WRAP AROUND ABOVE.
THEY START AT THE RIGHT HAND CORNER OF BUILDING E AND FOLLOW ALONG THAT ENTIRE FRONTAGE OR THAT PROPERTY LINE TO THE DOWN TO BUILDING G.
I JUST DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS, YEAH.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS FOR THE PUBLIC? OKAY.
WELL, SO WE HAVE NO ACTION AT THIS POINT, SO I GUESS WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN, UM, WHENEVER, WHENEVER YOU GET IT SET UP.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
ALL RIGHT, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THE FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS, UM, OR FUTURE, UH, MEETING CASE.DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ON FOR THAT YET? N NO.
LOOKING AT, AT WHAT WE HAVE SORT OF IN LINE RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE YOUR EAST'S FINAL STATION.
THAT IS NOT ANY THAT WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANYTHING NEW ON THAT TOLL FOLEY.
WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANYTHING NEW ON THAT.
AMELIA STREET TOWN HOMES AND LOVERS LANE, THEY'RE BOTH UP FOR THEIR ZONING HEARING BOARD APPLICATIONS IN THE NEXT, WELL, LOVERS LANE IS NEXT WEEK ON THE 15TH, AMELIA STREET PULLED THEMSELVES OFF FROM TOMORROW NIGHT.
I'M NOT SURE WHEN THEY'LL BE ON, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THEIR NEXT STEP IS.
UM, AND WE ALSO NOW HAVE, WHICH DIDN'T MAKE THIS AGENDA A FINAL PLAN FOR THE LEWIS ROAD TOWN HOMES AND FOR, OH, THERE'S ONE THERE.
CLIMB, CLIMB CLIMBER, CLIMB RUNNER.
THAT'S THE ONE I SENT OUT TO YESTERDAY OR TODAY.
SO WE HAVE THOSE FINAL PLANS AGAIN WITH FINAL PLANS.
THEY TEND TO TAKE A LONG TIME AND THEY'LL COME BACK TO YOU WHEN THEY'RE CLEAN.
SO I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING FOR JUNE 21ST AND GIVEN THE PROXIMITY OF THE HOLIDAY.
NO, THAT'S, I'M GONNA SUGGEST ON THE FIFTH THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE GET IN IF WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.
LET'S DO, TRY TO DO IT THE 21ST.
WELL, I WAS KIND OF THINKING THAT WE COULD PROBABLY CAN'T, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING I CAN PUSH TO THE 21ST PUSH FORWARD.
SO I THINK WE'D BE SAFE IN CANCELING THE 21ST AND THE FIFTH.
AND THEN ANTICIPATE HAVING SOME, HAVING THE SECOND MEETING IN JULY, WHICH I DON'T HAVE THAT DATE IN FRONT OF ME.
THAT'S 14 DAYS FROM THE FIFTH, THE 20 THAT WAS GONNA CONSIDER ME WITH THE, UH, NO, THE 19TH.
UM, THAT WE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST REAL CLOSE TO THE HOLIDAY T BOARD MOVING, SO, SO, UM, IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH CANCELING THE 21ST AND THE FIFTH AT THIS POINT? AND MOVE IT TO THE 19TH BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING PENDING.
AND I WILL SEE, WE MAY NOT NEED THE 19TH.
YEAH, BUT WE, WE, WE MAY NOT HAVE THE, WE MAY NOT HAVE ANYTHING CURED UP.
SO, UH, DO WE HAVE THE MOTION ON THAT? YES.
CAN I GET A MOTION TO, UH, POSTPONE OR CANCEL JUNE 21 AND JULY 5TH AND MOVE IT TO POSSIBLY THE 19TH? I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION.
BOB'S MADE A MOTION TO, UH, CANCEL THOSE TWO MEETINGS AND KEEP THE 19TH OPEN AT THIS POINT.
AND DO I HAVE A SECOND ON THAT? I'LL SECOND AJ SECOND IT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
UM, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
KELLY'S MADE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND BOB.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? GIVE YOU ADJOURNED? THANK YOU.