[00:00:35]
[CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL]
WELCOME.I'M GONNA CALL TO ORDER THE, UH, NOVEMBER 16TH, 2022 MEETING OF THE UPPER PROVIDENCE PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND, UM, THANKS FOR EVERYONE COMING OUT.
AND WE'LL START WITH A, YOU WANNA DO THE RULE CALL? SURE.
WE'RE GONNA START WITH A RULE CALL.
OFFICE, ANTHONY, FROM THE ENGINEER OFFICE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY, UH, AJ WE KNEW WASN'T GONNA BE HERE.
WE, I GUESS NOBODY KNEW ABOUT, UH, GILLY.
LET'S, LET'S, LET'S PRAY THAT HE'S OKAY.
UM, SO WITH THAT, UM, THE FIRST THING ON THE AGENDA, AND I
[PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AGENDA ITEMS]
KNOW WE HAVE SOMEBODY THAT WANTS TO MAKE A PUBLIC COMMENT ON A NON AGENDA ITEM, WE ONLY HAVE THE ONE THING ON.SO IF THERE'S ANY COMMENTS THAT WANNA BE MADE ON NON AGENDA ITEMS, THIS IS THE TIME TO DO IT.
BILL? UM, YEAH, I, I, MY NAME'S BILL FELTON.
I LIVE AT, UH, 1 33 OLD STATE ROAD.
UM, AND I LIVE ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE PROPOSED PARK HOUSE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH I KNOW IS NOT ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT.
UH, I THOUGHT I'D BEAT THE CROWDS
UH, YOU KNOW, I, I'VE LOOKED AT THE PLAN AND, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN I LOOK AT THAT PLAN, I, I SEE SUBURBAN SPRAWL.
UM, I DON'T SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT I THINK THE INTENTION OF INSTITUTIONAL ZONING IS, UH, SOME, SOME MAIN COMMENTS.
UH, TOO MUCH IMPERVIOUS SURFACE.
I MEAN, I LOOK AT THAT PLAN, I SEE ALL THE, THE STREETS AND THE PARKING LOTS THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO GO WITH THESE BUILDING TYPES THAT I DON'T FEEL ARE APPROPRIATE FOR THE INSTITUTIONAL ZONING.
UH, YOU KNOW, AND TOO MUCH IMPERVIOUS INCREASES THE WATER RUNOFF, CAUSES FLOODING, CAUSES EROSION, CAUSES POLLUTANTS TO ENTER OUR STREAMS, CONTAMINATING OUR DRINKING WATER, DESTROYING WILDLIFE AND WILDLIFE HABITATS, AND DIMINISHES THE, THE WATER TABLE, UH, HEAT SINK, ALL THAT ASPHALT PAVING, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST INCREASES THE, THE TEMPERATURE OF EVERYTHING AROUND THERE.
A LOT OF NEED FOR MAINTENANCE, NO REMOVAL, ICE REMOVAL, PLOW TRUCKS, EMITTING MORE CO2.
THAT, THAT, UH, WE, WE HAVE PLENTY OF, UH, AND THE EFFECTS THAT, UH, SALTING HAS ON OUR STREETS.
UH, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THE, THE GREAT SOLUTION WOULD BE IF, IF THIS PROPERTY WAS, UH, OBTAINED BY THE TOWNSHIP COUNTY STATE AS OPEN PARKLAND.
I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S STILL BEING CONSIDERED OR IF THAT'S EVER GONNA HAPPEN.
BUT, UM, I MEAN, IF, IF, UH, INSTEAD OF A SUBURBAN SP ALL DESIGN, YOU KNOW, THEY SHOULD, UH, BE THINKING ABOUT CLUSTERING THESE BUILDINGS, UH, MINIMIZING THE ROADWAYS, UH, YOU KNOW, ONE, ONE NARROW ROAD IN ONE NARROW ROAD OUT, BUT ALL THE PARKING WITHIN THE FOOTPRINT OF THE BUILDING, NO, ON SURFACE PARKING LOTS.
I MEAN, THIS IS, THIS IS A BIG, UH, ISSUE HERE.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER DOWNSIDE EFFECTS OF THIS SPRAWL DESIGN IS LIGHT POLLUTION, EXTERIOR HOUSE LIGHTS, LAMP POSTS, STREETLIGHTS, UH, VIEW SHED CONSIDERATIONS.
I MEAN, WHEN I DRIVE AROUND, YOU KNOW, OLD STATE ROAD, SECOND AVENUE, ER ROAD, THERE'S NOT A BAD VIEW SHED ACROSS THAT PROPERTY.
I, I, YOU, YOU MADE THESE MOST OF THESE COMMENTS TO THE SUPERVISORS AS I RECALL, RIGHT? NO, THAT WASN'T THAT YOU, NO.
WELL, I MADE COMMENTS OR WAS IT HERE? I JUST THOUGHT I REMEMBERED THESE COMMENTS FOR, BUT, BUT MY POINT IS, UM, NOT, AND NOT TO CUT YOU OFF, I'M CERTAINLY, YOU'RE CERTAINLY FREE TO MAKE YOUR COMMENTS, BUT MOST OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO WOULD BE BASED ON AN ASSUMPTION THAT THE TOWNSHIP HAS DISCRETION TO DECIDE WHETHER IT LIKES OR
[00:05:01]
DOES NOT LIKE THE PLAN, WHETHER IT FAVORS IT OR THINKS IT'S A GOOD IDEA.IF THEY, IF THEY COMPLY WITH THE SODO, THEY GET WHAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR.
SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE THE VIEW SHED, THAT'S THE, THEY SUBMITTED A PLAN THAT IS LARGELY, IF NOT COMPLETELY SAVED FOR CONDITIONAL USE APPROVAL COMPLIANT WITH THE ORDINANCE.
SO WE DON'T, WE CAN'T GO BACK TO THEM AND SAY, WHAT ABOUT THE VIEW SHUT? NOW, IF THE TOWNSHIP WERE TO PURCHASE THE LAND, OF COURSE THAT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT SCENARIO, BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT LAND IS VALUED AT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 60 AND A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS.
AND THAT'S JUST NOT A REALISTIC SCENARIO.
AND THAT'S WHAT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE DO HAVE, WE DO HAVE ZONING, AND I THINK, BUT ONCE THEY'RE PLANNER'S INTENTION, WHEN THEY CREATED THE ZONING FOR INSTITUTIONAL ZONING WAS NOT TO HAVE A SUBURBAN SPRAWL STYLE DESIGN, YOU KNOW, AN INSTITUTIONAL THE APPLICATION IS IN.
SO IT HAS, SO THEY ONLY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE ZONING AS IT EXISTS ON THE DAY THAT THEY SUBMITTED THE APPLICATION.
WELL, I, I MEAN, I'M, I'M LOOKING AT IT RIGHT HERE.
PERMITTED USES CHURCHES, SS INSTITUTIONAL HEADQUARTERS SCHOOLS, OTHER ACCESSORY USES.
I DON'T SEE ANY RESIDENTIAL IN THERE.
IT'S A, IT'S A PERMITTED CONDITIONAL USE, BUT THE CONDITIONS THAT ARE IMPOSED PEER PRELIMINARILY TO BE SATISFIED, THERE WILL BE A HEARING ON THAT, WHICH I WOULD INVITE YOU TO ATTEND.
BUT I'M NOT, I DON'T, I'M NOT BEING CONFRONTATIONAL, BUT I'M, I'M MAKING THESE COMMENTS TO YOU BECAUSE I'M GONNA BE MAKING THE COMMENTS TO THE THRONGS WHEN THEY COME OUT.
BUT I DON'T, I WANNA BE CONSISTENT IN, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE SAYING ABOUT THE ORDINANCE.
WELL, YOU KNOW, THE THINGS I WAS ADDRESSING, I WAS, I MEAN, NOW WE'VE ADDRESSED THE ZONING, WHICH I WAS GONNA BE PART OF WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS EVEN IF THERE'S GOING TO BE DEVELOPMENT, AND, YOU KNOW, IDEALLY THERE WOULD NOT BE, BUT LET'S, EVEN IF THERE'S THERE, THERE'S NO CONSIDERATION FOR THE LANDSCAPE OF, OF HOW THEY'VE, AT LEAST THE PLAN THAT I SAW THAT'S BEEN SUBMITTED.
I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S A SUBURBAN SPRAWL PROPOSITION.
AND I, I, I WOULD SAY THAT THE PLANNER'S INTENTION WHEN THEY PUT INSTITUTIONAL ZONING ON HERE WAS TO, TO HAVE THE DEVELOPMENT BE BUILDING TYPES THAT WOULD COMPLY WITH WHAT THE PERMITTED USES ARE.
SO, I, I, THE WAY I SEE IT IS THAT'S BEEN CHANGED AND, AND INTERPRETED WHETHER EVEN A CONDITIONAL USE, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, IF IT'S SENIOR LIVING, IT'S GOTTA BE A LICENSED FACILITY.
AND I, I LOOK AT THAT PLAN, IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE INDEPENDENT LIVING.
THERE'S A, THERE'S A CASE THAT WAS DECIDED LAST YEAR OUTTA WOR WAR SISTER TOWNSHIP THAT COMPLETE THAT.
I THOUGHT THAT WHAT YOU JUST MENTIONED, PRELIMINARILY, I THOUGHT THAT MIGHT BE A BASIS ON WHICH THE CHALLENGE, THE, THE PROJECT.
UM, I'M ALSO A TOWNSHIP RESIDENT, AND, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES, BUT, UH, THERE WAS A CASE OUTTA WISTER THAT KIND OF SHUT THE DOOR ON THAT, ON THE, WHETHER IT'S A MEDICAL, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS GIVE PREFERENCE TO THE HOMES FOR THE TREATMENT IN THE UPGRADED FACILITY, AND IT COUNTS AS BEING A FACILITY.
SO, UH, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN REALLY DO WITH THAT.
WELL, SO ON THE PLANNING SIDE, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY THAT THERE IS A SCENARIO AND IT'S GONNA GET DEVELOPED, AND IT MIGHT BE SENIOR LIVING, WHICH I WOULD ASSUME THAT'S THEIR INTENTION.
UH, THERE ARE WAYS THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT COULD BE DESIGNED TO BE LESS IMPACTFUL ON THE ENVIRONMENT, SUCH AS THE, THE PAVING, THE PARKING LOTS.
UH, YOU KNOW, I KNOW EVERYBODY'S GONNA BE CONCERNED ABOUT INCREASED TRAFFIC.
IF THIS IS FOR SENIORS, LET'S REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF VEHICLES THAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO OWN, HAVE A, HAVE, HAVE SOME SHARED, UH, UH, CARS, HAVE SERVICE SERVICES, YOU KNOW, ALL ELECTRIC, OF COURSE.
UH, MORE MEADOWS, WHICH WE JUST SPOKE ABOUT AT THE, UH, EAC.
UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S MY CONCERN WITH THE WAY THIS PLAN IS, BILL.
I THINK WE, I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE LIKE, JOE JUST SAID, YOU BEAT THE CROWDS.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE ANTICIPATING THAT WE'RE GONNA HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF COMING FORWARD AND, AND HAVING ALL KINDS OF REASONS.
AND I THINK AS A BOARD, WE'RE GONNA LISTEN TO ALL OF THEM, YOU KNOW, OR AS MUCH AS JOE SAYS, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE GUIDELINES AND THE RULES THAT WE ALREADY HAVE SET UP.
BUT WE UNDERSTAND THE PASSION HERE.
AND, UM, AND WE'RE GONNA DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO BE FAIR TO EVERYBODY.
I, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA BE FAIR.
[00:10:01]
THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO LOOK AT THEIR PROPERTY AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT TOO.SO WE GOTTA BE FAIR TO EVERYBODY.
AND, BUT WE CERTAINLY, WE ALL LIVE IN THE TOWNSHIP, SO WE ALL UNDERSTAND THE, UM, THE IMPACT THIS IS GONNA HAVE AND THE BAD FEELINGS IT'S GONNA CREATE.
SO WE'RE GONNA DO OUR DAMN THIS TO BE AS FAIR AND AS HONEST AND AS APPROACHABLE AS WE CAN BE IN THIS THING.
AND WE APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S PASSION.
I'M ALL ABOUT PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS AND OUR HOMEOWNER TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP THEIR LAND WITHIN THE GUIDELINES OF THE ZONING, YOU KNOW, AND, UH, UH, DEVELOPMENT OF THIS SIZE CERTAINLY DESERVES A LOT OF COMMENTS AND, AND INPUT.
AND, AND IT DESERVES US TO LOOK AT IT AS OBJECTIVELY, BUT FAIRLY AS POSSIBLE.
AND I THINK WE'RE GONNA TRY TO DO THAT.
I THINK, I KNOW WE'RE COMMITTED TO DOING THAT.
AND, AND, AND, AND, BUT WE UNDERSTAND THERE'S A LOT OF PASSION, AND, AND WE'RE GONNA TRY TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT ALSO.
WE PLAN FOR AS MANY MEETINGS AS IT TAKES.
I MEAN, WE'RE NOT, THEY'RE ON THE AGENDA FOR NEXT, THE NEXT MEETING ON DECEMBER 7TH, WE'VE CANCELED THE 21ST, BUT THAT'S MORE IN DEFERENCE TO THE HOLIDAYS THAN ANYTHING.
UM, YOU KNOW, BUT STARTING NEXT YEAR, WE WILL DEDICATE AS MANY MEETINGS AS WE CAN TO ALLOWING THE RESIDENTS TO SAY THEIR PIECE.
UM, I THINK THIS FORM HELPS THE SUPERVISORS OUT A LOT BECAUSE IT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO, TO GET THEIR, GET OUT WHAT THEY WANNA SAY.
UM, THE SUPERVISORS MEETINGS ARE, THERE'S CERTAINLY A LOT MORE IN THAT AGENDA.
SO THEY'VE LIMITED THE TIME AND LIMITED THE AMOUNT OF PUBLIC COMMENT PEOPLE CAN MAKE DURING THAT SECTION.
SO I KNOW ALL OF THE SUPERVISORS WATCH THESE VIDEOS AND, AND, AND THEY WILL BE FOLLOWING THIS ALONG.
AND, AND I, I THINK YOU HAVE VERY VALID POINTS ALL THE WAY THROUGHOUT.
I THINK NOBODY DISAGREES WITH, WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
AND, AND WE'VE HEARD THE, AS WE GO THROUGH THE COMMUNITY, US, US, WE ALL, LIKE I SAY, WE ALL LIVE.
WE HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME FROM DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND WE UNDERSTAND IT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, TO JOE'S POINT, AND THAT'S WHY JOE'S SO VALUABLE TO US, YOU KNOW, HE'S THE ONE THAT'S ACTUALLY GONNA TELL US, YOU KNOW, HE CAN'T DO THAT.
EVEN THOUGH WE'RE ALL PASSIONATE ABOUT IT, IT CAN'T BE DONE.
SO WE GOTTA LISTEN TO ALL THAT.
AND, AND WE CERTAINLY, CERTAINLY FEEL AND UNDERSTAND YOUR, YOUR PLEASE.
AND WE ARE STILL MEETING WITH THEM.
THEY'RE MOVING THAT PLAN THROUGH.
BUT JEFF AND I DO MEET WITH THEM AND TALK TO THEM, AND WE WORK AROUND THE EDGES TO MAKE IT THE BEST PLAN WE CAN IN THE END.
AND WHAT I THINK, I THINK THEY THREW THAT FIRST ONE OUT THERE JUST TO GET THE PUBLIC REACTION.
AND I, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY, AND I HAVE NO INSIGHT ON THIS, BUT I THINK IT'S PROBABLY GONNA CHANGE.
AND THEY'RE WILLING TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT THINGS AND, AND, UH, AND OUR SUGGESTIONS AND, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT, LIKE JEFF'S, IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN ON DECEMBER 7TH.
IT'S KIND OF IRONIC THAT'S PEARL HARBOR DAY, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF BOMBS GOING OFF.
I DIDN'T MEAN THAT TODAY THAT WE'LL LIVE IN.
WELL, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME, BILL.
LET'S, UH, ANY OTHER, UH, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON NON AGENDA ITEMS FROM ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC GENERAL DISCUSSIONS? UH, WE HAVE NONE.
WE HAVE NONE SINCE THIS IS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE MONTH, WE WILL DO MINUTES AT THE FIRST MEETING.
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON NOVEMBER 16, 2022:]
SO WE'RE GONNA MOVE RIGHT TO OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS THE APPLICATION FOR THE, UH, ONE 11 EAST LINFIELD TRAP ROAD THREE LOT SUBDIVISION.WHO IS HERE REPRESENTING THAT FINE GROUP? I AM CHUCK DOBSON, INLAND DESIGN.
UH, CHUCK, BEFORE YOU GET STARTED, I JUST WANNA NOTE, THE AGENDA SAYS A TENTATIVE DATE TO BE DISCUSSED BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AS DECEMBER 5TH.
INTERNALLY, WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS.
THEY, IF THEY MOVE FORWARD TONIGHT, I'M NOT MAKING ANY ASSUMPTIONS ON THAT FACT.
IF THEY MOVE FORWARD TONIGHT, THEY WOULD BE ON THE NOVEMBER 21ST BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AGENDA 21ST.
I JUST, I JUST WANT THAT NOTED EARLY ON, BECAUSE WHEN THEY FINISH UP, EVERYBODY FLOODS OUTTA THE ROOM AND MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF NOISE.
UH, BUT ANYWAY, UH, FROM INLAND DESIGN, I WAS, UH, I'M, I'M HERE WITH, UH, STEVE CLIFTON AND BRIAN C**N FROM CHECO REAL ESTATE, LLC.
THEY ARE THE APPLICANTS IN THIS, UH, THIS MATTER.
UM, WE WERE HERE, STEVE AND I WERE HERE BEFORE YOU FOLKS IN THE SUMMERTIME.
SO WE WENT BACK AND DID A FULLY ENGINEERED PLAN.
UH, AND WE DID GET, UH, THE LETTER FROM, UH, JEN'S OFFICE, UH, ON NOVEMBER, DATED NOVEMBER 10TH.
AND WE GOT THE NIM THE LETTER FROM ANTHONY'S OFFICE ON NOVEMBER 9TH, DATED NOVEMBER 9TH.
SO, UM, WE CAN KINDA RE-REVIEW THE APPLICATION, IF YOU WISH.
UM, IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
IT'S, UM, IT'S A 2.11 ACRE PROPERTY AT ONE 11 LINFIELD TRAP ROAD.
UM, THERE IS AN EXISTING DWELLING WITH A DETACHED GARAGE, UH, ON WHAT IS TO BE LOT NUMBER ONE.
UH, WE'RE GONNA CREATE LOT NUMBER TWO HERE, WHICH IS GONNA BE IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THAT.
[00:15:01]
THEN LOT NUMBER THREE IS A FLAG LOT, WHICH IS GONNA BE AT THE REAR OF LOTS, ONE AND TWO.UM, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT IS NOT CENTRALIZED.
WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH STORM MOTOR MANAGEMENT FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL DWELLING UNIT.
UH, WE ARE, WE HAVE SUBMITTED, UH, APPLICATIONS TO PENDOT FOR THE MINIMUM USE DRIVEWAY APPLICATIONS RELATED TO, IN THE WRONG ONE, RELATED TO THE, TO THE TWO MINIMUM USE DRIVEWAYS.
AND WE'VE ALSO ENGAGED IN DISCUSSIONS WITH THEM ABOUT DOING ANY ADDITIONAL PERMITTING REQUIRED FOR THE ROAD WIDENING THAT YOU ALL HAVE ASKED FOR AN ANTICIPATION OF ACTUALLY FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS GOING ON IN LINFIELD TRAP ROAD.
UM, WE HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE LETTER FROM MCMAHON IS VERY, IS VERY GOOD.
AND I WANNA THANK ANTHONY'S OFFICER.
THIS IS KIND OF REMINDS ME OF PENOC, CUZ THIS IS KIND OF HOW PENDAS DOING THESE DAYS.
UM, AND A LOT OF WHAT, UH, JEN OFFERED IN HER LETTER, UH, DID CARRY A LOT OF THE MCMAIN COMMENTS.
SHE OFFERED SOME OTHER ENGINEERING, UH, ITEMS THAT WE CAN GO THROUGH IF YOU WISH.
BUT I CAN BASICALLY CHARACTERIZE THIS AS THIS IS ALL WILL COMPLY.
UM, OBVIOUSLY WE MAY HAVE TO COORDINATE WITH YOUR OFFICE A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, AND THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT, CUZ WE KNOW THAT WE NEED INVERTS ON THOSE MANHOLES, BUT OUR GUYS COULDN'T GET THE LIDS OPEN.
SO WE MAY HAVE TO JUST COORDINATE WITH YOUR OFFICE TO, TO FIGURE YEAH.
THEY'D BE HAPPY TO WORK WITH YOU, I'M SURE.
IT'S NOT, JEN MENTIONED TO ME RIGHT BEFORE WE GOT STARTED, AS FAR AS THE WAIVERS, THE, AND YOU, YOU, YOU'VE, YOU'VE DESIGNATED IT AS, UH, A APPLICATION FOR PRELIMINARY.
WE HAD A TENTATIVE, BUT THERE WAS NEVER, THERE WASN'T A NEW PLAN RIGHT.
FULLY SUBMITTED CALLED PRELIMINARY, WHICH IS OKAY, BUT IF WE'RE GONNA DO, IF WE'RE RECOMMENDING PRELIMINARY, WE HAVE TO GET SQUARED AWAY ON WAIVERS.
SO AS, AS JEN EXPLAINED IT TO ME, THE WAIVERS AS LISTED ON THE NEW PLAN SET DON'T MATCH THE WAIVER LETTER THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED.
SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ON THE, BECAUSE I IF, IF THERE'S A RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT, I HAVE TO PAIR AN APPROVAL RESOLUTION TOMORROW AND I WANNA MAKE SURE I HAVE THE WAIVERS, UM, NO, THAT'S, THAT'S TOTALLY FAIR.
UM, SO YEAH, THERE ARE, THERE ARE THREE WAIVERS THAT ARE REALLY BEING REQU, UH, REQUESTED BASICALLY FOR THE ROAD WIDENING ITSELF.
AND I DON'T KNOW JEN, IF YOU AGREE WITH THAT.
SO IT'S THE, IT'S THE, UH, FIRST OF ALL THE NEED TO WIDEN THE ROAD BECAUSE IF WE DID THAT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A EXPANSIVE SECTION OF LINFIELD TRAP ROAD THAT DOESN'T LINE UP WITH ANYTHING ELSE THAT'S ADJACENT TO IT.
UH, THE NEXT ONE IS TO INSTALL SIDEWALKS, WHICH AGAIN, THERE'S NO SIDEWALKS IN THE VICINITY, BUT THE FUTURE GRADING WILL ALLOW FOR THE INSTALLATION OF THE SIDEWALKS.
AND THE LAST ONE IS, UH, CONCRETE CURB.
AND I BELIEVE THAT'S, THOSE ARE THE ONLY ONES, UH, THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
AND TO THE EXTENT THAT WE DID NOT UPDATE OUR WAIVER REQUEST LETTER, THAT'S, THAT'S ON US.
UH, BUT I, I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS THE, ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE CONSIDERED WITHDRAWN.
I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE, AND WELL, A LOT OF, I THINK THE OTHER WAIVERS THAT WE ARE ASKING FOR WAS LITERALLY NOT TO HAVE TO GO AND DO THE FULLY ENGINEERED PLAN SET, WHICH WE'VE ALREADY DONE.
SO THAT KIND OF DE FACTO JUST KIND OF GETS PULLED OFF THE TABLE ANYWAY.
JOE, WOULD THEY, THEY TECHNICALLY BE ASKING FOR A WAIVER OF THE TENTATIVE SKETCH REQUIREMENTS AND THEN MOVING RIGHT TO PRELIMINARY? IS THAT YEAH, IS THAT MY UNDER, THAT'S THE, SO THAT WAIVER WOULD BE ON THE LIST IS IS A WAIVER OF 1 54 11, THE TENTATIVE, I ACTUALLY DON'T RECALL HOW YOUR ORDINANCE READS IN TERMS OF, I KNOW IN SOME PLACES YOU HAVE TO BE GRANTED A SEPARATE WAIVER TO COMBINE.
YEAH, I THOUGHT THERE WAS A PROVISION ON SMALL, ON MINOR SUBDIVISIONS.
I DUNNO, DOES THIS COUNT AS A MINOR WITH BEING THREE IF THERE ISN'T LAND DEVELOPMENT AND WE'VE SORT OF PUSHED THIS BECAUSE IT WAS THREE LOTS, TWO LAND DEVELOPMENT.
THE IDEA WAS YOU COULD GO RIGHT TO PRELIMINARY IF THERE'S NO LAND DEVELOPMENT, WE'VE KIND OF PUSHED IT TO LAND DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WOULD THEN REQUIRE IT STAYS TENTATIVE.
I I GET THAT YOU'VE DONE MOST OF THE WORK FOR PRELIMINARY AT THIS POINT.
SO IF, IF WE CAN WORK OUT WHATEVER SECTION IT NEEDS TO BE, INCLUDE THAT WAIVER FOR THE TENTATIVE SKETCH REQUIREMENTS AND MOVE THEM RIGHT TO PRELIMINARY, THEY'RE STILL GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK FOR FINAL WITH AND CLEAN LETTERS AND ALL OF THAT.
BUT I THINK SINCE THEY'VE SUBMITTED ENGINEER PLANS, RIGHT, THERE'S WHY NOT? IT'S KIND OF SIMILAR TO WHAT, UM, PRDC ENDED UP DOING.
THEY SORT OF SKIPPED THAT STEP.
SO WHAT, WHAT STEP, WHAT STEP PRDC IS KLINE ROAD.
WHAT STEP DID THEY LIKE GOING FROM PRELIMINARY? THEY'RE KIND OF, THIS STARTED AS A TENTATIVE RIGHT? AND IT WAS A REVISED TENTATIVE, BUT THEY'RE ASKING FOR PRELIMINARY BECAUSE NORMALLY TENTATIVE DOESN'T HAVE AN ENGINEERED PLAN.
BUT NOW THEY'VE SUBMITTED AN ENGINEER PLAN, SO THEY'RE SAYING CAN WE JUST CALL IT PRELIMINARY? YEAH.
IT'S NOT I GET YOU CHANGING THE PLAN AT ALL, BUT RIGHT, I AGREE.
SO WHEN WE, WHEN WE DID THIS ORIGINALLY, SO I LOOKED AT THE ORDINANCE, UH, THAT'S THAT YOU CURRENT CODED.
THERE WAS NO REFERENCE TO A QUOTE TENTATIVE PLAN.
IT JUST TALKS ABOUT PRELIMINARY FINAL.
AND I THOUGHT BASED ON MY READ THAT WE ACTUALLY QUALIFIED FOR THE MINOR COMPONENT OF THAT THAT ALLOWED US TO GO DIRECTLY TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT.
SO, BUT YOU KIND OF EXPLAINED THAT THE BOARD DOESN'T WANT YOU TO DO THAT ANYMORE.
YOU'RE TRYING TO GET MORE INTO THIS TENTATIVE, I GUESS TO WORK OUT SOME OF THE, THE MAJOR ITEMS RELATIVE TO THE PLAN.
SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET INTO THE ENGINEERING ASPECTS.
SO THAT, BUT OUR INTENT WAS TO SUBMIT THIS AS A PRELIMINARY FINAL PLAN BECAUSE OF ITS LIMITED SIZE.
IF THIS BOARD CHOOSES TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR JUST PRELIMINARY, WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT.
AND YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE TO GET OUR, WE HAVE TO GET OUR, OUR SEWAGE PLANNING,
[00:20:01]
UH, EXEMPTION.WE HAVE TO GET OUR PENDO PERMITS AND WE HAVE TO BASICALLY ADDRESS YEAH, I THINK IT NEED TOO BIG JUMP TO GO TO TOO BIG JUMP TO GO TO FINAL.
YEAH, WELL, I THINK PRELIMINARY MEANS SOMETHING FOR MY CLIENTS BECAUSE NOW THEY CAN START TO MONITOR TANGIBLE.
IT'S, IT'S AN APPROVABLE PLAN AND IT'S SOMETHING, HEY, WE'VE GOT APPROVAL ON THIS, WE'VE GOTTA WORK THROUGH THE BUGS, BUT OTHERWISE THIS THING'S GONNA BE READY TO GO SHORTLY.
AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW.
I I JUST THINK IT'S, DOES DOES RISE THE LEVEL BE AN ACTUAL WAIVER THOUGH, DOESN'T IT? JUST TO MAKE SURE IT, I MEAN IT'S, IT WOULD ACTUALLY, I THINK WE'LL TREAT IT THAT WAY.
I, I CAN'T RECALL WHETHER YOURS SAYS IT'S ALLOWED TO BE COMBINED UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES VERSUS WHETHER IT'S ALWAYS A WAIVER.
LET'S TREAT IT AS A WAIVER REQUEST.
NOW WHEN I DO THE RESOLUTION, I'LL HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME.
UM, BUT TO THAT EXTENT, DID YOU FOLKS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF ME OR THE APPLICANTS RELATIVE TO THIS PLAN? I DON'T.
PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD OTHERWISE OVER THAT.
I JUST WANTED TO ASK, UH, UH, AGAIN, AND UM, AND, AND WHAT, WHAT IF THEY HAD ANY COMMENTS OR ANY OTHER THINGS THAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT? UH, BASED ON HIM ACCEPTING EVERYTHING EXCEPT FOR WHAT THREE ISSUES YOU STILL HAVE TO RESOLVE? IS THAT WHAT IT IS? THE WIDENING OF THE ROAD, THE SIDEWALK ARE THE WAIVERS? YEAH, THE WAIVERS.
ANY OTHER CONCERNS OR? NO, AS LONG AS IT CAN BE ADDRESSED ADMINISTRATIVELY AT THIS POINT AND THERE WE'LL COMPLY ON THE LETTER THEN NO, WE CAN WORK EVERYTHING OUT.
I WOULD, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT ONE.
CAN I ASK ONE QUESTION? THE, UH, JUST FROM MY, SO I UNDERSTAND AND WE CAN COORDINATE THIS OBVIOUSLY, UM, THE FINE DETAILS, BUT THE APPLICATION FOR THE DEPARTMENT FOR PENDOT MM-HMM.
SO COULD YOU CLARIFY, I GUESS WHAT, HOW THAT IT, SO WE NOTED THAT THERE WAS ONE DRIVEWAY VERSUS TWO SHOWN ON THAT PART.
COULD YOU CLARIFY THAT INTENT AND HOW YOU'RE GONNA SO WE SQUARE THAT AWAY? YEAH, SO THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION WE HAVE.
SO BASICALLY WHAT WE DID IS EARLY ON WE KNEW THAT THE PENDOT PERMITS WERE GONNA BE REQUIRED.
SO WE APPLIED FOR THE MIDDLE USED DRIVEWAY APPLICATIONS FOR BOTH.
UM, THE ENGINEER MY OFFICER IS HANDLING IN DEALING WITH PENDOT.
HE'S ADVISED THEM THAT THIS MAY GET A LITTLE MORE EXPANSION BECAUSE THE TASKS REQUESTING US TO DO SOME ADDITIONAL GRADING INSIDE THE RIGHT OF WAY ADJACENT TO THE ROAD IN ANTICIPATION OF FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS.
UH, THE PERSON HE SPOKE WITH AT PENNANT, I DON'T REMEMBER THE PERSON'S NAME, INDICATED THAT THAT SHOULDN'T BE A BIG DEAL.
IF WE NEED TO KICK IT UP TO A, TO A DIFFERENT TYPE OF HIGHWAY OCCUPANCY PERMIT APPLICATION, WE WILL DO SO.
AND OBVIOUSLY WE'LL KEEP THE TOWNSHIP AND YOU COORDINATED WITH ALL THE CORRESPONDENCE BACK AND FORTH.
BUT THAT'S HOW WE KIND OF LOOK AT THIS.
I MEAN, WE KIND OF GOT OFF THINKING JUST A COUPLE OF MINIMUM USE DRIVEWAY APPLICATIONS.
IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THAT, BUT THE PER PEOPLE FROM PANDA WERE LIKE, NOT, NOT A BIG DEAL.
UM, SHOULD, AND I KNOW YOU HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DRAINAGE POTENTIALLY.
AS LONG AS THAT DISCUSSION INCLUDES THE DRAINAGE, JUST BECAUSE THIS ENTIRE SITE GOES TOWARDS THE ROAD, I KNOW YOU PROVIDED YOUR INFILTRATION TESTING AND EVERYTHING YOU'VE PROVIDED AT THIS POINT IS ADEQUATE FROM IT SCHEMATIC STANDPOINT.
WE DON'T TAKE ISSUE WITH IT AS LONG AS PEN DOT'S AWARE OF IT AND IT'S AT LEAST OFFERED THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT.
AND, AND I THINK, AND WORKING WITH PENDOT AS LONG AS WE HAVE, UH, THEY'RE PROBABLY GONNA BRING IT UP ANYWAY ONCE THEY ACTUALLY SEE THE DETAIL AND THE GRADING, HEY, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THIS DOING TO YOUR DRAINAGE? UH, SO WE'LL DEFINITELY HAVE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION JUST AS A PROCESS AGAIN.
AND YOU SAID YOU'RE STILL WORKING ON THAT, RIGHT? YOU'RE STILL WORKING ON THE DRAINAGE ISSUES ON GETTING THAT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, AN HO P WILL BE PROVIDED TO THIS TOWNSHIP BECAUSE IT'S GONNA BE NECESSARY BEFORE AS PART OF JUST MEETING ANY CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.
UM, SO DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE, YOU MENTIONED I
JENS RIGHT? NO, IT DOESN'T DRAIN TOWARD TO THE BACK.
THE HIGH SIDE IS UP HERE AND IT DOES DRAIN DOWN HERE.
THE INTERESTING THING HERE IS THAT YOU HAVE A LITTLE, LITTLE BIT OF A TOPOGRAPHICAL ANOMALY RIGHT HERE WHERE I THINK EVERYTHING'S KIND OF GETTING DOWN TO THAT LOW POINT, ENTERING THE DRAINAGE SYSTEM OF LYNNFIELD TRAP ROAD AND THEN MOVING DOWN THROUGH PENDOT DRAINAGE SYSTEM.
SO THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE'RE GONNA INTERFACE WITH PENDOT ABOUT IS, YOU KNOW, IF THEY SAY, WELL LISTEN, WE NEED YOU TO MODIFY A LID OR MAYBE OPEN THIS UP, CHANGE SOME CONFIGURATION OF ONE OF THE ELEMENTS THERE, THEN WE'LL HAVE TO DO THAT AS PART OF OUR PERMIT PROCESS.
UM, THE, THERE IS PUBLIC WATER IN THE ROAD, THE WRONG BUTTON HERE.
UM, NOW ONE THING I DO WANNA NOTE IS THAT THIS, THE EXISTING DWELLING CURRENTLY HAS A VIABLE WELL IN THE BASEMENT.
I DO NOTE THAT THERE IS AN EXISTING CURB STOP ALONG LINFIELD TRAP ROAD.
THE INTENT RIGHT NOW IS TO ALLOW THAT RESIDENTS TO STAY ON THE WELL BECAUSE IT'S ONE LESS BILL THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHEN THEY GET IN THERE AND DO THEIR THING.
BUT THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH ALL THE FRAMEWORK IS THERE.
SHOULD THEY HAVE TO ACTUALLY INSTALL THE CONNECTION FROM THE HOUSE TO THE CURB STOP.
THEY CAN DO THAT PRETTY SIMPLY.
SO THE PLAN, THE FUTURE PLAN IS TO PUT TWO NEW HOUSES ON THIS PROPERTY, IS THAT THAT'S CORRECT.
RENT IT OR WHATEVER YOU'RE DOING WITH IT AND THEN KEEP BUILD TWO NEW HOUSES? THAT'S CORRECT.
SO WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO, JEFF? UH, BE A RECOMMENDATION TO
[00:25:01]
THE SUPERVISORS FOR, UH, WELL, I WOULD CALL IT FOR PRELIMINARY APPROVAL.AND YOU, DO YOU RECOMMEND THE REQUESTED WAIVERS? I'LL STRAIGHTEN OUT THE ADMINISTRATIVE WAIVER TOMORROW.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE REQUESTED WAIVERS ARE THE ROAD CARBON SIDEWALK AS SHOWN ON THE PLAN MM-HMM.
AND THEN WHATEVER THE ADMINISTRATIVE RELATIVELY THE TYPE OF PLAN IT'S CALLED OR YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S FINE.
THAT, THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL.
SO I'LL TAKE A MOTION FROM OUR ONE QUESTION FIRST.
WASN'T THERE A ROW OF PINES THAT RAN DOWN ON THE STANDING ON THE ROAD AND LOOKING BACK ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE OR THERE IS KIND OF TOWARDS THAT DIRECTION? YEP.
THEY WILL BE TAKEN OUT, I WOULD ASSUME.
REALLY WHAT THE INTENT IS IS THAT AS, AS NEEDED FOR THE GRADING AND STORMWATER FACILITY, FOR THE DRIVEWAY FOR THIS FLAG LOT, THESE, THESE EARLIER PINES ARE GONNA BE REMOVED.
BUT THE INTENT IS TO MAINTAIN AS MUCH OF THAT PINE ROW AS POSSIBLE.
PRIMARILY BECAUSE IT, IT KIND OF CREATES A NATURAL BARRIER FOR THIS LOT HERE RELATIVE TO THE EXISTING HOUSE.
SO YEAH, THEY, THEY WANNA MAINTAIN AS MANY TREES AS POSSIBLE, KIND OF HOPING THAT YOU LEAVE MOST OF THOSE IN.
THEY'RE, I THINK THEY'RE AN ASSET TO THE, TO THE PLAN.
I CERTAINLY THINK THAT TO THE EXTENT THAT THIS CAN BE PRESERVED, THAT THIS DRIVEWAY WILL BE LESS IMPACTFUL TO THE RESIDENTS THAT'S GONNA BE PLACED HERE.
SO IT, IT'S LESS BUFFER AND THAT HOUSE, YOU KNOW, HAS LIVED WITH THOSE PINES THERE FOR MANY YEARS.
NOT ON YOUR DEVELOPMENT, BUT NEXT DOOR UHHUH.
AND, UM, I THINK THEY'D PROBABLY MISS SEEING THEM.
UH, YEAH, I DON'T, I MEAN, YOU, YOU, DO YOU GENS HAVE ANY, I MEAN THE PLAN'S PRETTY CLEAR ABOUT THE LIMIT OF THE FIRST FOUR.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE RIGHT HERE? YEAH.
THE REST OF THEM ARE IN SHAPE, OUR INTENTION PEOPLE.
SO THE ONE, THE ONE HOUSE IS GONNA BE BACK HERE ON THE OFF TOP, TOP THAT ONE? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THE OTHER ONE WOULD BE RIGHT PRETTY RIGHT NEXT TO THIS ONE IN THAT AREA RIGHT HERE? YEP.
SO THE, THE, SO YOU CAN KEEP THE, YOU THINK YOU CAN KEEP THOSE TREES? YEAH, ACTUALLY, IF, UM, THE PLAN, UH, THE, THE GRADING PLAN THAT JEFF HAD UP EARLIER, THE, THE, THE INDICATION IS THAT WE'RE GONNA PRESERVE PROBABLY 60 OR 65% OF THIS, OF THIS TREE ROW.
AGAIN, WE HAVE TO, WE DO HAVE TO TAKE SOME OUT DOWN HERE BECAUSE WE'VE GOT DRIVEWAY GRADING AND WE HAVE A STORMWATER FACILITY FOR THE DRIVEWAY RUNOFF DOWN THERE.
BUT WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR BEST TO LIMIT THE CLEARING OF ANY VEGETATION ON THE PROPERTY.
AND, AND FOR THE, FOR THE HOUSE THAT'S NEAR THE EXISTING HOUSE, WHERE'S THAT DRIVEWAY COMING ON IT? UH, THIS, THIS DRIVE WILL BE COMING IN RIGHT OFF OF LINFIELD TRAP ROAD, RIGHT OFF OF LINFIELD.
AND THE ONE THING I WANNA SAY IS THAT, YOU KNOW, JUST, JUST SO WE'RE ALL CLEAR, WE, WE REPRESENTED WHAT WE THOUGHT WERE REALISTIC REPRESENTATIONS OF HOUSES THAT COULD BE BUILT HERE.
WE, WE KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT CHECO REAL ESTATE IS GONNA BUILD THEM OR NOT.
THEY DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT WHETHER THEY'RE GONNA BUILD 'EM OR NOT.
IT'S, IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THE HOUSE THAT GO IN THERE, THERE'S GONNA HAVE TO BE BUILDING PERMIT PLANS SUBMITTED THAT ARE GONNA SHOW WHAT'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE BUILT THERE.
WE JUST TRIED TO BE AS REALISTIC AS POSSIBLE.
I MEAN, IF WE OFTEN, WHEN WE HAVE A BUILDER WHO COMES IN AND SAYS, I WANT, YOU KNOW, THIS MODEL WITH THESE OPTIONS, WE CAN PUT IT ON THERE AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S GONNA BE.
SO WE DID OUR BEST TO KIND OF BE REALISTIC IN WHAT'S ACTUALLY GONNA GO THERE.
AND WE HAVE SORT OF, UM, WE HAVE A WAY TO CATCH THAT WHEN THE BUILDING PLAN COMES IN, IT'S SENT TO THE GILMORE TO REVIEW LOCATION AND, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE NOT IMPACTING STORM WATER TO, TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE GENERALLY COMPLYING WITH THE PLAN.
WE, WE REALIZE THAT IT'S NOT ALWAYS GONNA BE PERFECT.
IT CAN'T BE PER, IT CAN'T BE A PERFECT MATCH.
OKAY? SO JEN JEN'S OFFICE LOOKS AT IT AND MAKES SURE THAT THEY'RE NOT MESSING WITH THE GRADING TOO MUCH.
ANTHONY, JEN, YOU GUYS HAPPY WITH, WITH THE, I WERE HAPPY.
ARE YOU SATISFIED THAT WE'RE THEY, WE WERE TO MOVE FORWARD OR WITH A PRELIMINARY? OKAY, SO IS ANYBODY ON THE BOARD, UH, NICOLE OR ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY.
SO THEN I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO, UH, ACCEPT OR TO PASS THIS TO SUPERVISE AS A PRELIMINARY APPROVAL, NOT A FINAL PRELIMINARY.
AND, UH, AND, UH, TAKE A MOTION.
WELL, WE'RE JUST GONNA, THIS WILL BE PRELIMINARY APPROVAL, NOT A FINAL.
THAT WILL GO TO SUPERVIS, A PRELIMINARY APPROVAL AND REQUEST THE WAIVERS, THE THREE WAIVERS, UH, THREE WAIVERS ARE SHOWN ON THE PLAN, PLUS THE ONE WAIVER TO BE HANDLED ADMINISTRATIVELY BY ME TOMORROW.
ON EITHER THAT ONE ADMINISTRATIVE ON THE WAIVER COMBINING THE TENTATIVE AND PRELIMINARY.
NO, YOU JUST SAY, AS I PHRASED IT, MAKE THE MOTION AS I PHRASED IT.
YOU DON'T, WE DON'T STAND ON THAT KIND OF CEREMONY.
IT'S NOT, SIMON SAYS, DON'T WORRY
YEAH, YOU CAN LITERALLY SAY WHAT HE SAID IS MY MOTION.
SO WE HAVE A FIRST AND A SECOND.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
NO PRELIMINARY RECOMMENDATION.
HE'S MY GREAT, HE'S MY ENFORCE.
HEY, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO, HAVE TO DO, ONCE YOU
[00:30:01]
SAY, LIKE HE SAID, NOW IT'S YOUR MOTION.IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO SAID THE WORDS FIRST.
I THOUGHT THERE WAS SOME OTHER PEOPLE.
YOU CAN'T, YEAH, THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE HERE.
THANK GOD I BEGGED FOR THESE PANELS FOR THREE YEARS.
DID WE OFFEND THEM OF PEOPLE OR THEY JUST LEFT? HUH? THEY REALLY WORK WELL.
[DISCUSSION: FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
SO, UH, FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. JEFF, I I, I KNOW WE HAVE OUR, UM, YES, OUR BIG MEETING NEXT.OUR BIG MEETING NEXT MONTH IS ON PARKHOUSE.
AND HAS, I HEARD YOU SAY, CUZ WE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN OUR LAST MEETING, I HEARD YOU AND I HEARD YOU JUST SAY THAT, UH, THE SUPERVISOR HAVE ALREADY PUT RULES IN PLACE TO LIMIT.
THE SUPERVISORS FOR THEIR AGENDA, THEY LIMIT PEOPLE TO THREE MINUTES.
AND THAT'S ASSUMING THAT THEY ACTUALLY TIME THEM.
AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S EVER TIMED THEM.
UM, I, I THINK WHAT WE WILL DO IS WE'LL TRY TO, WE'LL GET PEOPLE TO SIGN IN, SO WE'LL HAVE A SIGN UP SHEET HERE TO KEEP IT A LITTLE BIT MORE ORDERLY.
UM, WE'LL RECOMMEND THAT PEOPLE SAY TO THREE MINUTES AND WE'LL RECOMMEND THAT, THAT IF, IF YOU'RE SAYING THE SAME THING AS THE FIRST SEVEN, THE PEOPLE, SEVEN PEOPLE IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T NEED TO HEAR THE SAME THING.
BUT AGAIN, WE DON'T WANT, IF 50 PEOPLE CAME UP WITH, WITH THE SAME SIX TALKING POINTS AND SAID THE SAME THING, I'M NOT GONNA LIMIT ANYBODY.
THEY CAN SAY EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
AND I WOULD ALSO ADD, UM, IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GAUGE IN A NORMAL, IN A NORMAL SMALL REGULAR HEARING THAT'S NOT GONNA GO ON AND ON AND ON OR REGULAR MEETING NIGHT.
AND SOMEBODY COMES UP AND THEY MAKE A COMMENT, BUT THEY ALSO ASK A QUESTION.
MANY TIMES WE ANSWER THE QUESTION JUST TO BE HELPFUL.
IT'S JUST GOOD GOVERNMENT TO BE HELPFUL.
TECHNICALLY THE RULE IS THAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO OFFER COMMENT.
AND SO AS THE ISSUE GETS BIGGER AND MORE CONTENTIOUS AND YOU HAVE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE INSTEAD OF ONE PERSON, IF, IF YOU START GIVING ANSWERS TO PEOPLE, THEN THEY HAVE FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS OR THEY CHALLENGE YOUR ANSWER AND IT BECOMES AN ARGUMENT, AND THEN YOU'RE ONLY STOLEN PERSON NUMBER ONE OUT OF 200 PEOPLE.
SO THE BIGGER IT IS, IT'S BETTER TO STAY WITH THE PRACTICE OF THANKING THEM FOR THEIR COMMENTS RATHER THAN GETTING INTO A DIALOGUE.
SO OUR
I MEAN THE, YOUR FREE INDIVIDUALS WILL SAY WHATEVER YOU WANNA SAY.
WELL, I'M TALKING ABOUT ONLY ABOUT, I MEAN, YOU CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION AMONGST YOURSELVES AND SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT THAT YOU WANT.
YOU CAN ALSO OFFER YOUR OPINION IN RESPONSE TO THE COMMENTS.
YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T LITERALLY ONLY BE IN RECEIVE MODE FOR THE WHOLE THING.
YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD DEBATE IT, UM, MAYBE AT THE BEGINNING TO KICK IT OFF MAYBE AGAIN AT THE END AFTER YOU'VE RECEIVED ALL THE PUBLIC COMMENT.
JUST SO WE'RE NOT SITTING HERE.
WELL, AND, AND THERE MAY BE SOME OF THAT.
I MEAN, WE HAVE TO LET PEOPLE TALK.
AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, AS MUCH AS WE WOULD LOVE IT TO HAVE ONE PERSON SAY, HERE'S WHAT EVERYBODY THINKS AND THIS IS EXACTLY OUR OPINION, THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
AND UM, WHATEVER YOUR COMFORT LEVEL IS, ENGAGE BACK.
I THINK A LOT OF THE FIRST MEETING, BECAUSE THIS ISN'T GONNA BE DECIDED CERTAINLY BY THE SEVENTH, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT GONNA BE DECIDED ANYTIME SOON.
YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IT'S EASIER JUST IN THE VERY BEGINNING TO LET EVERYBODY JUST SORT OF TALK.
AND YES, JOE'S GONNA TAKE ABUSE, I'M GONNA TAKE ABUSE, YOU MIGHT GET SOME ABUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA GET YELLED AT AND PEOPLE ARE GONNA ACCUSE US OF BEING IN THE POCKET AND, AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS, WHICH IS RIDICULOUS AND STUPID.
BUT THAT'S JUST THE WAY THESE THINGS WORK.
I'VE ALREADY HEARD THOSE COMMENTS, SO RIGHT.
I MEAN THAT, THAT HAPPENS AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT, THAT PEOPLE RESORT TO THAT TACTIC AND THEY THINK IT'S GONNA WORK AND THEY THINK IT'S GONNA, YOU KNOW, WOUND ME.
IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY EASIER.
I THINK MY BEST ADVICE IS TO JUST, LET'S SEE HOW THE MEETING PLAYS OUT AND LET'S SEE WHAT THEY SAY TO WHAT THE APPLICANT SAYS TO US AND WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT, AND THEN HOW THE RESIDENTS REACT.
AND ALSO SOMEWHAT GAUGING WHAT IS A, WHAT IS A REASONABLE QUESTION THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT SOMEBODY TO ASK VERSUS SOMEBODY WHO ASKS, YOU KNOW, HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN IN THEIR BACK POCKET? RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF NONSENSE.
I'LL STOP THAT IN NEW YORK MINUTE.
BUT THIS IS ALL OF OUR FIRST TIMES EVEN YOU
[00:35:01]
GUYS FIRST, RIGHT? MM-HMM.AND THAT'S WHY I'M SORT OF, THE WAY I'M APPROACHING THE MEETING IS LET THE DEVELOPER SAY THEIR PIECE.
LET THE RESIDENTS SAY THEIR PIECE.
WHATEVER YOU WANNA CONTRIBUTE, WHATEVER YOU, WHATEVER YOU WANNA JUMP IN, JUMP IN.
I KNOW TOM'S NORMAL METHOD IS TO GO TO QUESTIONS FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION FIRST.
MAYBE WE WANNA HOLD OFF ON THAT AND SAY WE'RE GONNA HOLD OUR OUR QUESTIONS TO THE END, OR WE'RE GONNA HOLD OFF OUR QUESTIONS TO LATER.
WELL, IT'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS, RIGHT? RIGHT.
I'M TALKING PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS.
WELL, I'M TALKING ABOUT PLANNING COMMISSION.
I MEAN, WE CAN HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE DEVELOPER RIGHT? BUT WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO GIVE 'EM A COMMENT.
WHATEVER YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH AND, AND HOWEVER YOU WANNA APPROACH IT.
I'M JUST SORT OF THINKING, LET THE AUDIENCE AND THE, AND THE APPLICANT SORT OF HAVE THIS MEETING AND WE JUST SORT OF HANG OUT.
AT LEAST I THINK THAT'S THE WAY I'M GOING TO APPROACH IT.
I'M NOT GONNA, I'M GONNA ENGAGE AS LITTLE AS MUCH.
WELL, I DON'T, I I THINK, I THINK, AND I, I APPRECIATE THAT, BUT I THINK WE'RE GONNA BE FORCED TO MAKE A COMMENT.
WELL, I DO INTEND TO MAKE AN EXPLANATION AT THE FRONT.
I FIGURED THAT ABOUT THE CURRENT ZONING.
I DON'T, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE CURRENT ZONING.
AND SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF IT MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE CURRENT.
SO I WAS GONNA LAY THAT FOUNDATION AT THE OH, I EVER HEAR FROM PEOPLE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY STILL THINK THAT WE NEED TO CHANGE THE ZONING IN ORDER FOR THEM TO DO THE JOB.
WE'RE THAT WE'RE GONNA CHANGE THE ZONING.
THAT QUESTION, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS CAN'T DO THAT ZONING.
SO MAYBE SOMETHING THAT JUST SAYS LIKE WHAT THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF A PLAN FOR STAR VERSUS WHAT THE RESPONSIBILITIES THE OTHER TWO YEAH, YEAH.
JUST, AND I DON'T KNOW, TELL ME IF WE'RE ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT THIS, BUT YOU GUYS HAVE YOU, JUST TO GET US SOME BACKGROUND, IS THERE ANY MAJOR THINGS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE NOTICED THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT WE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT BEFORE THAT MEETING? ABOUT? AND I DUNNO IF WE'RE ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT PROBABLY SHOULD WAIT.
THAT IS WHY I ASK IT UP FRONT.
NO, NO, UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A TENTATIVE SKETCH.
SO ALL OF OUR LETTERS ARE PRETTY GENERAL IN NATURE.
AS WITH ANY OTHER TENTATIVE SKETCH THINGS ARE VERY GENERAL AND MORE SO FOR THE ENGINEERS BECAUSE THERE'S NO HARD ENGINEERING DONE.
SO THEIR LETTERS ARE TYPICALLY VAGUE FOR, UM, THIS LEVEL OF REVIEW.
AND THAT'S, BUT THAT IS TYPICAL, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE'RE AT THAT STAGE WHERE WE'RE NOT INTO THAT YET.
I THINK WE'RE JUST ALL A LITTLE NERVOUS AND I THINK IT'LL GO RIGHT.
I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE THAT BAD.
I, I'M HOPING IT'S NOT GONNA BE AS BAD AS WE THINK IT'S GOING TO.
YOU, YOU'VE GOT, YOU'VE GOT PAID WHIPPING BOYS AT EITHER END OF THE DAS RIGHT HERE.
I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR.
WELL, WHAT WE DO
I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT.
BUT I MEAN, BUT JOE'S ALSO TURNED ME ON SOME NICE BOURBON.
SO BRING IT, BRING IT THAT NIGHT.
SHOULD WE ALL DO YETI YETI QUESTIONABLE COMMENTS? YEAH.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE ON THE AGENDA THAT NIGHT? NO, I PURPOSELY, I PURPOSELY LEFT, LEFT EVERYTHING OFF THE AGENDA AND MOVING FORWARD, WHAT, HOW I WOULD APPROACH IT FROM A SCHEDULING STANDPOINT IS IF WE KNOW THEY'RE GONNA BE ON AN AGENDA, I'M NOT GONNA PUT ANYTHING ELSE ON THE AGENDA UNLESS I'M ABSOLUTELY FORCED TO.
LIKE, I'M THINKING FOR JANUARY, THE FIRST MEETING OF THE MONTH WOULD BE MAYBE SPRING FOR SCHOOL DISTRICT, MAYBE, UM, AMELIA STREET, TOWN HOMES, WHATEVER THOSE HANGING OUT THEIR PLANS ARE.
IF THEY'RE READY TO BE ON THE AGENDA, THEY'LL BE ON THE AGENDA.
AND THEN THE SECOND MEETING OF THE MONTH WOULD BE, UM, PARKHOUSE AGAIN IF THEY WANNA COME BACK.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? NOPE.
MAYBE WE NEED LOVER'S LANE THROWN IN.
THEY WILL, THEY WILL BE THEY LOVER'S.
LANE HAS A, HAS A, A NEW PLAN IN I SENT IT TO EVERYBODY.
YEAH, BUT I KNOW, BUT THAT IS ACTUALLY, ACTUALLY, I SHOULD HAVE SAID IT.
THAT'S PROBABLY ONE THAT WILL BE IN THE, IN JANUARY.
WELL, IF THERE'S NO OTHER COMMENTS, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN, ALSO MOVE.