[00:02:41]
[CALL TO ORDER]
RECALL TO ORDER THE, UM, WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 16TH MEETING OF THE UPPER PROVIDENCE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL.AND, UM, EVERYBODY IN FRONT OF THEM SHOULD HAVE THE AGENDA.
AND, UH, I GUESS WE'RE GONNA APPROVE THIS AGENDA.
[APPROVE AGENDA]
JEFF, YOU WANT US JUST TO, I MEAN, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE AGENDA? IF NOT, UH, I'LL TAKE A VOTE TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.I GOT A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.
SO WE'VE APPROVED THE AGENDA, JEFF.
[PUBLIC COMMENT FOR NON-AGENDA ITEMS]
WE HAVE NO PUBLIC, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT UNLESS SOMEBODY ELSE WANTS TO MAKE A NON AGENDA, UH, ITEM COMMENT ANY FROM THE BOARD HERE? SURE.UM, UH, WORKSHOP, UH, WAS PUT ON BY THE, UH, CHRISTINA WATERSHED MUNICIPAL PARTNERSHIP.
AND IT WAS ALONG TO MEADOWS WORKSHOP.
SO AS, AS THE EAC, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A, A BIG MOVEMENT I'M DISCOVERING REALLY ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO, UH, INCREASE BIODIVERSITY THROUGH PLANTING MEADOWS IN YOUR, IN YOUR LAWN.
SO I WENT TO THIS WORKSHOP AND THEY, UH, THEY, THEY HAD AN INTRODUCTION TO WHAT THAT MEANS TO TURN YOUR MEADOW INTO OR TURN YOUR LAWN INTO A MEADOW.
AND THE STORM WATER BENEFITS TO THAT, UH, FUNDING SOURCES.
SO IF A MUNICIPALITY IS GOING TO HAVE SOME PROPERTY OF THEIR OWN, THAT THEY WANNA GET SOME FUNDING FOR THAT.
UH, ORDINANCES WAS AN INTERESTING TOPIC BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ALREADY DOING THIS.
I'VE SEEN IT PHOENIXVILLE, UH, WHERE PEOPLE JUST STOP CUTTING THEIR GRASS.
AND OF COURSE THEY, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CITED FOR THAT, YOU KNOW, WEED ORDINANCES.
SO THEY, THEY TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T KNOW IF UPPER PROVIDENCE HAS A WEED ORDINANCE, BUT IT'S SOMETHING WE MIGHT WANNA THINK ABOUT AS THIS, YOU KNOW, GRABS HOLD.
[00:05:01]
ABOUT WAYS, IF YOU WERE GONNA CONVERT, LET'S SAY YOUR, YOUR ONE ACRE HOUSE IN PROVIDENCE, HUNT YOUR FRONT YARD INTO A MEADOW, THEY HAVE GUIDELINES THAT, YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THAT.I'M SURE, I DON'T KNOW FOR A FACT, BUT I'M SURE THAT UPPER PROVIDENCE HAS SOME SORT OF, WELL, LAWN MAINTENANCE, UH, WE, WE HAVE A REQUIREMENT THAT, THAT THE GRASS CAN'T BE LARGER THAN TALLER THAN SIX INCHES.
BUT THAT'S, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO INTERPRET.
THE SECRET OF IT IS WE PROBABLY COULDN'T ENFORCE IT IF, IF, IF SOMEONE SAID, NO, I'M JUST NEVER GONNA CUT MY YARD.
UM, BECAUSE IT'S, IT REALLY TALKS ABOUT AGRICULTURAL USES THAT IT HAS TO, YOU KNOW, THAT CERTAIN MEASUREMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, BUT WE CAN USUALLY CALL PEOPLE UP IF WE GET, AND WE ONLY GO OUT OF OUR WAY IF WE GET A NEIGHBOR COMPLAINT.
IF SOMEONE SAYS, HEY, YOU KNOW, MY NEIGHBOR HASN'T CUT THEIR YARD IN TWO MONTHS, CAN, CAN YOU TAKE CARE OF IT? WE MIGHT MAKE A PHONE CALL OR DROP BY AND PUT A TAG ON THE DOOR.
AND THAT'S USUALLY ENOUGH TO GET PEOPLE TO, TO TRIM IT.
AS I'VE SAID WITH A LOT OF THE UPPER PROVIDENCE IS, IS THERE'S A LOT MORE HOAS AND HOAS HAVE A LOT MORE ENFORCEMENT THAN WE DO FOR, FOR, FOR MOST OF THE TOWNSHIP.
WELL, THAT GOES TO MY QUESTION THEN.
SO MY QUESTION IS, ASSUMING THAT WE DO HAVE A FORCEABLE OR SOME SORT OF, EVEN IF WE DON'T HAVE AN ENFORCEABLE, THE HOA HAS MORE FORCE, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, BUT SO WHAT PREVENTS, WHAT'S THE RULES AROUND SOMEBODY SAYING, OH, I'M NOT CUTTING MY GRASS CUZ I'M GOING TO A MEADOW.
YEAH, WELL THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT THE WELL, I WAS GONNA SAY, DID THEY HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS ON THAT? SO SOME OF THE SUGGESTIONS WERE IF YOU'RE GOING TO CREATE A MEADOW AND YOU'RE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD, BE INTENTIONAL ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
YOU KNOW, PUT A, A ROCK BORDER AROUND, PUT A FENCE AROUND IT, UH, CUT, CUT FOUR FEET BACK FROM THE SIDEWALK.
IF YOU'RE IN A, HAS IT JUST STUFF TO DO THAT'S, THAT'S BEYOND JUST NOT CUTTING YOUR GRASS.
YOU KNOW, IT'S AN INTENTIONAL WILDFLOWER GARDEN.
I UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF, OF THE MEADOW, BUT I, MY MY FEAR IS, IS IF PEOPLE ABUSE EVERYTHING THAT SOMEBODY WOULD USE THAT ROLE OR THAT EXCUSE TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM BY SAYING, I'M NOT GONNA CUT MY GRASS CUZ I'M GROWING A NATURAL MEADOW.
AND SO THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE, I THINK, SOME STRONG, UM, REQUIREMENTS.
SO, AND, AND ONE OF THEM COULD BE, FOR INSTANCE, UH, THEY WOULD HAVE TO ALL BE NATIVE GRASSES.
SO IF SOMEBODY HAS A WEED STREAM LOT VERSUS A, A NATIVE GRASS MEADOW, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD BE DEFINED DEPENDING ON HOW DEEP, YOU KNOW, LABELING EACH PLANT THAT YEAH, THAT WOULD BE TOUGH TOO, WOULDN'T IT? WELL, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WHO'S GONNA GO OUT AND LOOK AT THAT GRASS AND LOOK AT THE WEED AND SAY, THAT'S NOT AN APPROVED WEED, ANOTHER EXPERT.
WE'LL HAVE THE, THE MEADOW EXPERT PART OF THE WELL, AND, AND YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WITH ANY ORDINANCE, I MEAN, I'D BE VERY INTERESTED IN SEEING THE ORDINANCE.
I KNOW SARAH, IF SHE WERE HERE, SHE'D BE VERY INTERESTED IN SEEING, YOU KNOW, THE PLANTING SIDE OF IT AND AND PLANT SIDE OF IT.
I'D BE MORE INTERESTED IN THE ORDINANCE AND ENFORCING THAT.
SO I MEAN, IF, IF YOU HAVE THAT INFORMATION FORWARD AND ON, AND WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT IT.
UM, EVEN IF YOU JUST HAVE IT IN PAPER COPY, YOU CAN DROP IT OFF THE TOWNSHIP.
WE'LL SCAN IT IN AND WE'LL GET IT BACK TO YOU.
UM, YOU KNOW THAT, CUZ I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IN AN ORDINANCE TO GIVE PEOPLE THE OPTIONS AND TO, YOU KNOW, BUT AGAIN, I THINK TOM MAKES A VERY VALID POINT.
THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE SOMEBODY WHO GOES, YEAH, IT'S, IT'S A MEADOW.
I HAVEN'T BEEN CUT IT IN SIX MONTHS, BUT YEAH.
SO, AND LIKE I SAID, THAT WAS JUST ONE OF THE TOPICS YEAH.
IN THE, THE HALF DAY WORKSHOP.
UH, THE OTHER THINGS WERE PLANNING PAIR OF MEADOWS AND LONG TERM MAINTENANCE AND THE PRESENTERS WERE DC NR MM-HMM.
AND, UH, THE ORGANIZATION'S IN PHILLY, THEY HAVE AND A WEEDS INC.
WHICH IS A LANDSCAPER WHO HAS STUMBLED INTO THIS, THIS, UH, NATURAL YEAH.
INTO CHANGING LAWNS TO MEDICINE.
LIKE PICO IS ONE OF HIS BIG CLIENTS, YOU KNOW, SO THEY'LL TAKE A BIG POWER RIGHT AWAY.
THAT PICO'S BEEN CUTTING FOR YEARS AND, AND IT WAS PRETTY INTERESTING.
I MEAN, THAT GUY WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW DEPENDING ON THE SEED MIX THAT HE PUTS DOWN, HE CAN MAKE GRASSES HAVE A LIMIT OF SIX INCHES, 18 INCHES OR FOUR FEET DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE.
UM, AND I, I DO HAVE THE FLYER FROM THAT.
IT, AND THAT WAS DOWN IN SOUTHERN CHESTER COUNTY.
A LOT OF TOWNSHIP, UH, MAINTENANCE PEOPLE.
[00:10:01]
WELL, AND I, I THINK AS WE TALKED ABOUT LAST MONTH OR LAST MEETING, AND I, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS WHEN WE GET DONE TO THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES SORT OF PART OF THIS IS I STILL THINK HAVING A MEETING WITH HOAS IS, IS A GREAT FIRST STEP FOR US.UM, AND I THINK IF WE WERE ABLE TO INTRODUCE THAT AND EVEN CONNECT SOME HOAS WITH, HEY, HERE'S HOW YOU REDO YOUR BASINS TO BE A MEADOW, OR, YOU KNOW, THE LARGE GRASSY AREAS, LIKE LOOK AT, UM, SOME OF THE AREAS ALONG ONE 13 THAT, THAT AREN'T THE BASINS, IF YOU COULD CONVERT THOSE TO MEADOWS, THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT THEY WOULD SAVE IN OH YEAH.
CUTTING COSTS WOULD BE PHENOMENAL.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE RETURNING THESE THINGS BACK AS LONG AS EVERY SORT OF WORKS IN THE PARAMETERS.
YOU KNOW, I STILL, I STILL AGREE.
WELL, I HAVE A GREAT IDEA, ESPECIALLY FOR PUBLIC BASE LIKE THAT, WHERE YOU DON'T, NOBODY WANTS TO SPEND MONEY ON STUFF LIKE THAT BECAUSE, AND THAT'S WHAT I, I I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN THAT THE PARKS DEPARTMENT WANTS TO DO WITH A LOT OF OUR, OUR OPEN SPACES THAT AREN'T THAT, YOU KNOW.
I COULD SEE WHY A LOT OF MUNICIPALITIES AND PEOPLE WOULD BE THERE.
CUZ I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING.
THEY CAN CUT COSTS OF NOT CUTTING GRASS.
I MEAN, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, CEMETERIES YEAH.
CEMETERIES ROUGH OF A GOLF COURSE.
BUT, BUT THEN THE SECOND PRESENT THAT, SO THAT WAS THAT.
AND THIS IS A WORKSHOP WE COULD MAYBE HOST MM-HMM.
DO WE HAVE A PAVILION HERE ON THIS? YEAH, THERE'S A, THERE'S A, THERE'S A PAVILION OVER HERE.
THE PARKS DEPARTMENT CAN FIND YOU A SPACE.
IF, IF THERE'S SOMEWHERE YOU WANNA, IF YOU, IF WE GET TO THAT POINT AND YOU WANNA PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER, THE WELL CAN FIND YOU TO, TO THE, LIKE, LIKE THE LADIES WHO WERE FROM DCN R I ASKED THEM, I SAID, HEY, WOULD YOU GUYS PUT THIS SHOW ON SOMEWHERE ELSE BEFORE I GOT HOME? SHE HAD ALREADY EMAILED ME, I DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE GOT MY EMAIL ADDRESS OFF THE LIST, I GUESS THE REGISTRATION LIST AND SAID, HEY, ANYTIME, JUST LET US KNOW.
SAME WITH THE, UH, THE PEOPLE FROM THE PENNSYLVANIA ENVIRONMENTAL COUNCIL.
SO WE COULD, WE COULD, YOU KNOW, HOST ONE HERE AND INVITE, YOU KNOW, ALL THE AREA MUNICIPALITIES DOWN HERE AND HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS.
THEN COINCIDENTALLY, THE SUNDAY BEFORE THAT, I WENT TO A PRESENTATION, UH, BY THIS GUY DOUG TMY.
AND, UH, HE'S, HE'S BASICALLY THE, THE GRANDFATHER OF THIS WHOLE MOVEMENT.
HE, UH, HE STARTED SOMETHING CALLED, UM, HOMEGROWN NATIONAL PARKS.
SO THIS IS A, A PROGRAM AND YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU GO ONLINE, YOU REGISTER, THEY GIVE YOU ALL SORTS OF GUIDANCE TO CONVERT YOUR LAW INTO A MEADOW.
AND HIS GOAL, HE'S AN ENTOMOLOGIST FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF DELAWARE, IS FOR THE BIODIVERSITY.
THE BEST EXAMPLE THAT HE TALKED ABOUT WAS, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A PARK SOMEWHERE, LET'S SAY IT 35, GOT ANOTHER PARK ACROSS TOWN THAT'S 50 ACRES.
WELL THAT'S, YOU KNOW, A NICE PARK.
IT'S GOT SOME WILDLIFE AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.
BUT IT'S NOT QUITE, UH, IT'S NOT A DEAD ZONE, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH BIODIVERSITY FOR SPECIES TO CONTINUE TO EVOLVE.
HERDS, INSECTS, POLLINATORS IS THE BIG THING.
SO BY CREATING THESE LAWN DE MEADOW MOVEMENT, YOU'RE CREATING A, A CORRIDOR FOR THOSE TYPES OF ANIMALS TO BE ABLE TO TRAVEL BETWEEN THESE GREEN ISLANDS.
PRETTY, PRETTY FASCINATING TO HIS BOOK, WHICH I MEANT ANYWAY, IT'S CALLED NATURE'S BEST HOPE, ONE OF ONE OF MANY BOOKS THAT, SO HE, HE HAD A TWO SESSION, UH, PRESENTATION.
ONE WAS ON THIS, ON METO MOVEMENT, AND THEN HIS SECOND BOOK, UH, WHICH IS CALLED THE NATURE OF OAKS, THE WHOLE THING ON OAK.
DOUG TALLAMY, I, I, UH, ASKED HIM IF HE, YOU KNOW, COME OUT AND DO A PRESENTATION, SAID, SEND ME AN EMAIL.
BUT VERY, VERY INTERESTING GUY.
I MEAN, I CAN'T MAKE ANY PROMISE ABOUT 3,500, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN CERTAINLY SPEND SOME MONEY IF WE NEED TO SPEND SOME MONEY.
WELL, WHAT I WAS THINKING IS MAYBE TALK TO THE COLONIAL THEATER, SEE IF THEY WOULD HOST IT, AND IF WE COULD GET SEVEN ORGANIZATIONS OR MUNICIPALITIES TO PUT UP 500 BUCKS.
HEY, DO WE NEED TO TAKE A RULE CALL? ARE YOU NOT? NO, YOU'RE NOT.
YOU TAPING THIS? YEAH, WE'RE TAPING IT.
[00:15:01]
OKAY.BUT YOU DON'T NEED A RULE CALL? NO, WE'RE GOOD.
THAT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE THINGS I PROBABLY NEED TO REMOVE FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION ONE.
THE RULE CALL WAS MORE OF A HOLDOVER FROM WHEN WE HAD, UM, ZOOM ON ZOOM.
BUT MAYBE NEXT MONTH I'LL REMEMBER TO TAKE IT OFF.
DID ANY CONTINUE ON, DID ANYBODY SEE ANYBODY READ THE MERCURY? DID ANYBODY BESIDES ME READ THE ACTUAL READ THE NEWSPAPER? I LOVE TO READ THE NEWSPAPER.
THAT'S ONE OF THE, LIKE SIMPLE PLEASURES FOR ME IS GETTING UP IN THE MORNING.
AND NOW READ THE NEWSPAPER, BUT NOBODY ELSE READS IT.
WELL, UM, THIS WEEK THEY HAD A, THE FRONT PAGE OF THE HEADLINES WAS SOME GENTLEMAN, AND I WAS GONNA BRING JUST LIKE YOU WITH THE BOOK, I WAS GONNA BRING THIS PAPER AND I FORGOT IT.
UM, SOME GENTLEMAN FROM THE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION WHO'S IN CHARGE OF, AND I DIDN'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, HE'S GOT A REAL SPECIFIC PATHWAYS AND TRAILS, AND HE GAVE A SEMINAR UP IN POTSTOWN SOMEWHERE ABOUT PATHWAYS AND TRAILS AND HOW, LIKE, LIKE THIS SEMINAR MM-HMM.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU, IF HE WAS WITH THE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION JAIL, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU, AND I DON'T HAVE HIS NAME.
BUT IF YOU, IF YOU, IS THERE ANY, YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE BEHIND ANY OF THAT? PROBABLY.
AND I, I'M SURE I KNOW THE GENTLEMAN.
I MEAN, I KNOW MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DOWN THERE, SO IF YOU SEND ME THE ARTICLE, I COULD SEND YOU THE ARTICLE.
EVEN IF YOU JUST TAKE A SNAPSHOT OF IT WITH YOUR PHONE AND TEXT IT TO ME.
I CAN, I CAN FIND THE ARTICLE AND I CAN FIGURE OUT WHO IT IS.
HE DOES, HE DOES FREE SEMINARS, HE'S WITH THE COUNTY.
HE LOVES TO COME TO MUNICIPALITIES AND, AND BOROUGHS AND, AND TALK ABOUT THAT STUFF.
UM, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, KIND OF GIVES YOU ALL THE BENEFITS, SPECIFICALLY FINANCIAL, WHY THEY'RE GOOD.
AND, UH, ANYHOW, WELL, THERE, THERE WAS A, A PRESENTATION AT THE, UH, COMMUNITY COLLEGE.
IT WAS ACTUALLY THE SAME DAY AS THIS WORKSHOP THAT I WENT TO THAT YOU HAD SENT OUT INFORMATION ON THAT.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS THE SAME PRESENTATION.
NO, HE WAS AT SOME, HE WAS AT ONE OF THE, HE WAS AT SOME MUNICIPALITY, AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHICH ONE IT WAS SOMEBODY, SOMEBODY IN, OBVIOUSLY MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
BUT IT WAS SOMEBODY, UH, HE WAS AT A SPECIFIC SEMINAR AT A MUNICIPALITY.
AND I GUESS I, AND AGAIN, I MAYBE BECAUSE THEY WERE, THEY'RE THINKING EXPANDING OR STARTING OR GETTING INTO THE TRAIL PATH BUSINESS.
BUT ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THAT'S HIS SPECIFIC ROLE THAT HE'S IN CHARGE.
HE'S, HE'S THE HEAD OF THE COMMITTEE THAT HANDLES PATHWAYS AND TRAILS.
BUT, UH, ANYWAY, I'LL FIND THE ARTICLE AND SEND IT AND, UH, BILL, THERE IT IS.
YEAH, THIS IS, I THINK I FOUND, FOUND THE ARTICLE.
I DON'T HAVE A SUBSCRIPTION, SO I HAVE A WAY OF GRABBING THE ARTICLE REAL QUICK AND JUST COPYING AND PASTING INTO A WORD DOCUMENT FORMAT STINKS.
BUT I CAN KINDA GET AROUND PAY.
IT WAS AN INTERESTING ARTICLE CUZ IT, I DIDN'T REALIZE THE POTENTIAL OF REVENUE GENERATING AND I STILL NOT SURE I FULLY UNDERSTAND IT, BUT HE, YOU KNOW, HE WOULD, HE WAS PRETTY, UM, I'LL SEND THIS AROUND.
I'LL SEND, I'LL YEAH, I'LL READ IT AND SEND IT AROUND KYLE.
WELL, WELL, I, I, WHEN YOU WERE TELLING STORY, I, I WAS THINKING, I WONDER IF THIS IS BILL HARMON.
I DON'T KNOW HIM, BUT I KNOW HIS NAME JUST THROUGH
BUT DID ANYBODY GO TO THE, UH, THE THING AT THE, I I DIDN'T.
I, I HAD OTHER MEETINGS THAT NIGHT, SO, SO I, I, I RUSHED HOME FROM THIS AND I HAD, WHEN I REGISTERED FOR THAT, I SAID I WANTED TO DO IT BY ZOOM.
CAUSE YOU COULD DO IT BY ZOOM.
I GET HOME, I OPEN UP MY EMAIL, I CAN'T FIND THE, THE ZOOM LINK.
AND I'M CALLING RITA MCKELVIE DOWN AT THE COUNTY.
I'M LY SHE WAS PROBABLY AT THE, THE PRESENTATION.
ANYWAY, A COUPLE DAYS LATER I FIND THE LINK IN MY JUNK MAIL.
YOU WERE LATE THOUGH, HUH? I CALLED RITA MCKELVIE.
WE HAD A NICE CONVERSATION AND SHE, UH, TOLD ME WHERE TO GO ON THE COUNTY WEBSITE TO SEE THE PRESENTATION.
THEY, WELL, IT'S THE, UM, UM, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? THE SLIDES? THE, THE POWERPOINT.
SO I, I WATCHED THAT AND IT WAS BASICALLY WHAT BILL HARTMAN WAS TALKING ABOUT.
I MEAN, THERE WERE THREE PRESENTERS.
THE ONE WAS, WAS PRETTY DRY STUFF, YOU KNOW, BUT A LOT OF, LOT OF DATA, A LOT OF NUMBERS.
BUT, BUT STUFF THAT MADE SENSE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE AN OPEN SPACE OR PARK, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT EMPLOYEES, YOU'VE GOT, UH, DIFFERENT VENDORS AND SUPPLIERS AND, YOU KNOW, IT JUST, IT'S A MINI ECONOMY AROUND, WELL, ACCORDING TO THIS GUY.
SO I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT ALL WORKS, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING PROBABLY SUE NEEDS TO LOOK INTO OR I DON'T CARE.
SHE DOES, BUT I MEAN THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR PARKS AND REC.
BUT, UM, YEAH, I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS AN INTERESTING ARTICLE, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT WAS, YOU KNOW, VERY TIMELY TOPICAL.
[00:20:01]
THAT'S GOOD.[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
WE HAVE TO PROVE THE MINUTES FROM LAST MEETING.SO, UH, IF EVERYBODY, IT'S ATTACHED TO THAT, UH, TO THE AGENDA, IF EVERYBODY'S HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THOSE MM-HMM.
AND IF, UH, IF WE HAVE, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES FROM OUR MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 21.
SO WE APPROVED THE MINUTES, JEFF.
UH, TO STAY, UH, PARLIAMENTARY.
UM, AND THEN, UH, THE NEXT ONE, ACTION.
[2. Goals, Objectives and Scheduling for 2023]
I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THAT, YOUR GOALS, OBJECTIVES, AND SCHEDULING.I'M GLAD YOU HAVE IT ON THERE, JEFF, BECAUSE, UH, I, CUZ I LOOKED AT YOUR AGENDA, UH, YOU SENT OUT THE OTHER DAY MM-HMM.
UM, AND I'M, YOU KNOW, I COME TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
I KNOW WHAT MY, MY JOB IS AND I KNOW WHAT WE'RE, DO I COME TO THIS AND I'M STILL TRYING TO STRUGGLE.
I'M STILL TRYING TO, AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF YOU, BUT I'M STILL TRYING TO GET MY ARMS AROUND.
WHAT THE HECK ARE WE DOING? I DON'T, I DON'T NECESSARILY UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR GOALS ARE.
WELL, AND I SEE YOU HAVE GOALS IN THERE, BUT, WELL, AND, AND TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST, I, I FEEL THE SAME WAY.
I'M USED TO, LIKE YOU ARE RIGHT.
I GET AN APPLICATION IN, I HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME TO REVIEW IT.
PRETTY CUTTING DRY, IT FALLS ON THE AGENDA.
PARKS IS A LITTLE, PROBABLY A MORE LOOSEY GOOSEY I THINK.
BUT YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE CERTAIN THINGS THAT YOU, YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.
UM, YOU KNOW, AND SO THAT'S SORT OF WHAT I WAS SORT OF HOPING TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF, IF NOTHING ELSE AND MAYBE GOALS, OBJECTIVES AND IS IS A LITTLE BIT STRONG OF A TERM FOR IT.
BUT I WOULD LIKE TO JUST GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF, LET'S TRY TO PLAN OUT THE FIRST COUPLE MEETINGS OF NEXT YEAR SO THAT WE KNOW, LIKE I'M WRITING THESE NOTES DOWN AS WE WERE TALKING, LIKE MAYBE THE FIRST MEETING OF THE YEAR IS GONNA BE REORGANIZATION CUZ WE HAVE TO DO THAT, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU VOTE AND SAY WHO'S CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR AND ALL SORT OF STUFF.
UM, AND THEN WE START, WE TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT BASINS.
I KNOW I OWE YOU THE MAP OF WHERE THE BASINS ARE.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE NEXT MEETING WOULD BE MARCH AND LET'S MAYBE HAVE YOU WORK ON GETTING THE PRESENTATION BY DC AND R OUT HERE TO JUST HAVE IT TO US AND YOU KNOW, WE'LL PUBLICIZE IT AND SEE WHO WANTS TO COME.
I MEAN, I, I, BUT I GUESS MY QUESTION AROUND THAT WOULD BE TO HAVE A SEMINAR WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THAT SEMINAR COULD BE OR WOULD BE.
THAT'S A GREAT WASTE, YOU KNOW, GREAT USE OF TIME.
WELL, I, I THINK SO IS THE SUPERVISOR, IS THE SUPERVISORS OR TIM OR ANYBODY IN MANAGEMENT, IF THAT'S THE WORD.
DO THEY HAVE ANY GOALS HERE THAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR? NO, IT, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE WERE SPECIFIC GOALS THAT, THAT ANYBODY WAS LOOKING FOR WHEN THEY SET THIS, WHEN THEY WANTED TO SET THIS UP.
I THINK IT WAS A LITTLE BIT LIKE, LET'S SEE WHO GETS ON IT AND LET'S SEE SORT OF WHAT DIRECTION THEY GO.
I KNOW THE ONE THING THEY THEY DON'T WANT TO DO IS THEY DON'T WANT IT TO BECOME A VOICE THAT'S SORT OF OPPOSED TO LAND DEVELOPMENT.
THEY WANNA WORK, THEY WANT IT TO BE AN ADVISORY BOARD, BUT TO WORK WITH LAND DEVELOPMENT AND WORK WITH THE NEIGHBORS IN THE TOWNSHIP TO, TO EDUCATE.
AND I, I THINK MORE THAN ANYTHING, I THINK THAT WAS WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR AS AN ED, A BODY THAT COULD LEARN AND EDUCATE AND HELP EDUCATE THE REST OF THE TOWNSHIP ON HOW, HOW TO BECOME MORE ENVIRONMENTAL.
BUT THE DECISION MAKING WOULD STILL LAY WITH THE SUPERVISOR? OH YEAH.
IT'S ALWAYS, AND THAT'S, THAT'S ALWAYS, THAT'S ALWAYS THE THING.
I MEAN, THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD.
AND, AND THAT'S OUR ROLE THERE IS WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM A RECOMMENDATION.
THEY DIDN'T WANT THIS TO BECOME ANOTHER BOARD OF SAYING, HEY, LOOK, NO, THE PLANNING COMMISSION SHOULD NOT SAY THAT.
AND THE BOARD SHOULD NOT SAY THAT.
YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY IF, IF SOMETHING COMES UP, YOU KNOW, A BIG DEVELOPMENT OR WHATEVER, YOU CAN WEIGH IN.
BUT IT, IT'S NOT, WE'RE NOT HAVING THE APPLICANTS OUT HERE FOR A STEP ONE AND THEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR STEP TWO AND THE BOARD FOR STEP THREE.
THAT WASN'T EVER THE GOAL OF IT.
IT WAS MORE OF LET'S FIND WAYS TO EITHER LOOK AT OUR ORDINANCES TO SAY, HERE'S HOW WE CAN MAKE THEM MORE ENVIRONMENTAL.
HERE'S HOW WE CAN SEND OUT PUBLICATIONS AND INFORMATION TO OUR RESIDENTS TO, TO EDUCATE AND TO INFORM AND TO, TO GET SOME MORE ENVIRONMENTAL IDEAS OUT THERE.
WELL, IF, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU JUST SAID, IF THAT'S OUR GOALS OR IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE THINKING, IS THAT GONNA BE OUR GOALS? I MEAN, THEN WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING IS HAVING SEMINARS AND EDUCATING THE COMMUNITY AND THE PEOPLE.
AND WE COULD DO THAT IF THAT'S OUR GOAL, IS TO JUST HAVE SEMINARS AND SAY, OKAY, THE COMMUNITY YOU'RE INVITED OR HOAS OR WHOEVER YOU'RE INVITED TO COME AND HEAR ABOUT THIS NEW IDEA OR THIS THING.
I MEAN, WE COULD CERTAINLY DO THAT, BUT, BUT I ALSO WANT THIS TO BE A DISCUSSION WHERE IF, IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT, LIKE MAUREEN AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT ELECTRIC VEHICLES PRIOR TO
[00:25:01]
THE MEETING.UM, IF, IF THAT'S SOMETHING, AND I KNOW THAT'S NOT YOU, UM,
YOU CAN, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT YOU REALLY WANNA FOCUS ON, WHETHER THAT'S EDUCATING OR WHETHER THAT'S JUST LEARNING ABOUT, OR WHETHER THAT'S DIGGING INTO THE ORDINANCE TO SEE HOW WE CAN MAKE IT WORK BETTER IN AN ORDINANCE.
LET'S SAY IT'S SOLAR GIVE, GIMME AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.
LET'S, RIGHT NOW WHEN SOMEONE COMES IN WITH A, SO WHEN THEY WANNA PUT SOLAR ON THEIR PROPERTY, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN THE ORDINANCE THAT REGULATES IT REDUCES IT ENLARGES IT, REGULATES IT.
BASICALLY OUR INTERPRETATION IS IF IT GOES ON THE BUILDING, IT'S A BUILDING CODE ISSUE.
THEY HAVE TO FIT WITHIN THE BUILDING CODE.
THAT WOULD BE PRETTY MUCH STANDARD FOR ANYTHING YOU DO AT THE HOUSE.
IF SOMEONE WANTS TO CREATE A SOLAR FIELD, WE LOOK AT THAT AS AN ACCESSORY USE.
AND AN ACCESSORY USE FALLS UNDER A CERTAIN REQUIREMENT.
YOU'VE RUN INTO THIS A LITTLE BIT, TOM, THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WHERE AN ACCESSORY USE IS LIMITED TO TWO OR 3% OF THE PROPERTY DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE PROPERTY.
AND SO YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE, UNLESS YOU'RE TALKING A VERY LARGE PIECE OF PROPERTY, 2% IS NOT A LOT OF A SOLAR FIELD, A LOT OF PROPERTY.
SO THEREFORE IT, WE DON'T GET A LOT OF THESE SOLAR FIELDS THAT PEOPLE ARE PUTTING IN THERE.
AND MAYBE WE DON'T WANT THEM, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T REALLY HAVE AN OPINION ON IT EITHER WAY.
I JUST KNOW THAT I, FROM A REGULATORY STANDPOINT, WHEN SOMEONE HANDS ME A PLAN, I HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AND SAY, WELL, EITHER YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO BECAUSE THERE'S NO REGULATIONS.
OR HOW DO I INTERPRET IT SO THAT IT FITS UNDER THAT? AND THEN IF SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH ME, THERE'S THE ZONING HEARING BOARD PROCESS TO TELL ME I'M WRONG.
WELL, AND SO THAT'S, IF, IF SOLAR IS SOMETHING YOU WANT TO ENCOURAGE IN THE TOWNSHIP AND THAT'S SOMETHING YOU THINK YOU WANT IN THIS TOWNSHIP, LET'S LOOK IN THE ORDINANCE AND LET'S, YOU KNOW, DIG INTO THE ORDINANCE AND MAKE SOME SUGGESTIONS ABOUT THAT.
WELL LET'S JUST TAKE SOLAR FOR INSTANCE.
SO YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WHO HAS AN EXISTING HOME, HAS BEEN LIVING IN THIS HOME FOR 20 YEARS AND DECIDES TO GO SOLAR.
IS THAT A TOWNSHIP, UH, PERMIT? AGAIN, IF THEY PUT IT ON THE BUILDING, EXISTING BUILD EXISTING BUILDING, IF YOU WERE TO PUT IT ON YOUR HOUSE TOMORROW, IF YOU WERE TO COME TO, IF YOU WERE TO SAY, I'M PUTTING THIS ON OUR HOUSE TOMORROW, YOU WOULD HAVE TO GET AN ELECTRICAL PERMIT AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT BECAUSE THE ELECTRICAL PERMIT, BECAUSE YOU'RE WIRING THINGS IN YOUR HOUSE, YOU'RE CHANGING THE ELECTRICAL, THE ELECTRICAL SOURCE IN YOUR HOUSE.
AND THE, THE BUILDING PERMIT PORTION OF IT WOULD BE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR ROOF CAN FULLY SUPPORT IT.
NOW, MOST ROOFS DO, IT'S, IT'S REALLY JUST LOOKING AT, IT DOESN'T COMPLY WITH THE BUILDING CODE.
IT'S, IT'S A VERY SIMPLE REVIEW, I THINK AS REVIEWS GO.
NOW IF YOU WANTED TO TAKE YOUR BACKYARD AND COVER THE WHOLE THING WITH SOLAR PANELS, THAT WOULD BE, AT LEAST RIGHT NOW OUR INTERPRETATION IS THAT'S AN ACCESSORY USE.
AND YOU WOULD MAKE THAT PERMIT REQUIREMENT AND YOU WOULD SHOW US HOW MANY SQUARE FEET THEY TAKE UP, HOW MUCH IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE IT IS, AND PLUS THE ELECTRICAL PERMIT BECAUSE YOU'RE STILL CONNECTING INTO THE ELECTRICAL PART OF IT.
I'M COMFORTABLE WITH TEACHING AND LEARNING AND, AND SUPPORTING AND ALL THAT, BUT I, I HAVE, I AS A LIBERTARIAN, OKAY, I HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEM WITH ADDING REGULATIONS.
WELL, MAYBE THE POINT IS TO REMOVE REGULATIONS.
WELL WE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT? WELL, WE HAVE, WE'VE TAKEN SOLAR AS OUR EXAMPLE.
WE HAVE AN INTERPRETATION, BUT WE DO MY INTERPRETATION.
WELL, YOU HAVE REGULATIONS, THE BUILDING PERMIT AND ELECTRICAL PERMIT.
BUT IT COULD BE, IT COULD OTHER THAN THAT OTHER, WHICH YOU HAVE TO GET, NO MATTER IF YOU'RE PUTTING A, A SAUNA IN, I GUESS IF YOU'RE CHANGING YOUR ELECTRICAL RIGHT.
YOU GOTTA, YOU GOTTA, I MEAN, IF SOMEONE'S PUTTING A SAUNA IN THEIR HOUSE, YES.
THEY HAVE TO GET AN ELECTRICAL PERMIT.
THEY HAVE TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT.
SO, BUT SO THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE FROM I'M GONNA COVER MY ROOF COMPLETELY WITH PINK SOLAR PLANTS.
WELL, WE ARE NOT EVEN GONNA GET INTO THE COLOR.
WELL, THERE'S NO, WELL, I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S WHAT I'M, THAT'S MY POINT.
WELL, THAT THERE IS NO CODE, THERE IS NO CODE FOR WHAT YOU COVER YOUR ROOF WITH.
WHETHER YOU WANT TO USE SLATE SHINGLES OR COPPER OR ASPHALT SHING.
SO, SO YOU CAN'T REALLY DICTATE THAT.
YOU CAN'T PUT ON A SOLAR PANEL BECAUSE WE DON'T LIKE THE LOOKS UP.
WELL, YES, UNLESS THERE'S AN HOA, YOU'RE RIGHT.
BECAUSE IF AN HOA COULD SAY, BUT I BET YOU THEY HAVEN'T DEALT WITH SOLAR PANELS EITHER, BUT THEY DO.
YOU MEAN THE TYPES OF SHINGLING OR WELL, THE SLATE OR CAN'T PUT YEAH, THEY MIGHT HAVE, THEY MIGHT BE MORE SPECIFIC BLUE TARPS.
YOU CAN'T COVER YOUR ROOF FOR TARP BUILDING.
BUT WITH A LOT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, AND IT'S ALMOST DAILY, I HAVE TO
[00:30:01]
MAKE INTERPRETATIONS OF THAT ZONING ORDINANCE BASED ON AN APPLICATION FOR SOLAR PANELS, AN APPLICATION FOR A SHED, AN APPLICATION FOR WHATEVER.WE GET THOSE BUILDING APPLICATIONS IN.
AND I EVEN WITH BUSINESSES, YOU KNOW, IS THIS BUSINESS FALL UNDER IT? AND THERE'S A LOT OF TIMES I MAKE INTERPRETATIONS BECAUSE THE ZONING ORDINANCE CAN'T COVER EVERYTHING.
I MEAN, THERE'S NO WAY IT CAN BE THAT SPECIFIC YOU, YOU KNOW, THAT FROM DEALING WITH IT.
SO THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS WHERE YOU HAVE TO SAY, THIS IS MY INTERPRETATION AND THAT'S WHAT THE TOWNSHIP TELLS ME TO DO.
I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT THEY HIRE ME TO DO TO MAKE THAT INTERPRETATION.
AND IF PEOPLE DON'T AGREE WITH THAT INTERPRETATION, THEY GO TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD.
AND THAT'S, AND THEY GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS TO, TO ALTER MY INTERPRETATION OR TO, TO HOLD, UPHOLD MY INTERPRETATION.
BUT IF, IF YOU AS A LIBERTARIAN AND AS A MEMBER OF THIS BOARD, AND IF YOU CAN GET EVERYBODY TO AGREE AND YOU HAVE A CERTAIN POLICY AND A CERTAIN WAY YOU WANT TO HAVE THINGS INTERPRETED, WE JUST NEED TO CODIFY THEM.
AND I KNOW MAYBE THAT STANDS AGAINST THE LIBERTARIAN SIDE OF HAVING REGULATIONS, BUT YOU CAN REGULATE HOW YOU WANT IT INTERPRETED.
SO IT TAKES IT OUT OF MY GRAY AREA AND PUTS IT IN THE ORDINANCE TO SAY, GROUNDS MOUNTED SOLAR PANELS HAVE TO MEET JUST THE BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENT.
IF YOU PUT THAT IN THERE, IT, IT PUTS SOMETHING IN THE EFFECT OF GROUND MOUNTED SOLAR PANELS ARE NOT AN ACCESSORY USE, DO NOT COUNT AGAINST THE ACCESSORY USE PERCENTAGE AND ONLY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE BUILDING CODE AND ELECTRICAL CODE PERIOD.
AND THAT GOES IN THE ORDINANCE THEN.
THAT, THAT'S MY INTERPRETATION.
I HAVE NO INTERPRETATION AFTER THAT.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE KIND OF THING FROM AN ENVIRONMENTAL STANDPOINT, BECAUSE THE ENVIRONMENTAL AREA IS SOMEWHAT GRAY WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT IS IT A MEADOW OR IS IT AN UNKEMPT FRONT YARD? IT'S A GRAY AREA.
SO AS MUCH AS YOU MAY NOT WANT TO HAVE MORE REGULATION, SOMETIMES YOU DO.
BUT SOMETIME THAT, THAT REGULATION MIGHT BE AS SIMPLE AS SAYING, THERE'S NO REGULATIONS ABOUT THIS.
AND I KNOW THAT'S CONTRARY TO WHAT YOUR THINKING IS.
NO, IT'S NOT CONTRARY TO WHAT MY THINKING IS.
I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IS, IS THAT, AND I KNOW THAT IT GOES TO THE SUPERVISOR AND THEY MAKE THE FINAL CALL AND THEN EVEN JOE'S GONNA LOOK AT IT AND SAY, NO, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT JUST SEEMS TO ME LIKE NOW WE'RE MAKING LOSS AS A BOARD, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE A LAW OR A WELL RULE.
AND I'M, I'M MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
I'M MORE COMFORTABLE WITH MAKING RULES.
AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN, THEN THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.
WHAT, WHAT'S YOURS? I MEAN NO, I AGREE.
AND, AND IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S THE CASE AND THAT'S THE, THE DIRECTION YOU WANT TO TAKE THIS BOARD, THIS BOARD IS REALLY UP TO YOU.
NO ONE, THERE WAS NO MANDATE TO SAY, GO THROUGH THE ORDINANCE AND PICK IT APART AND MAKE MORE RULES FOR ENVIRONMENTAL REASONS.
THERE WAS NOT, THERE WAS NOT THAT INSTRUCTION.
IT WAS REALLY, LET'S SET UP AN EAC AND SEE WHERE THEY GO.
IF YOU AS A BOARD ARE MORE COMFORTABLE SAYING, I WANT TO EDUCATE AND I WANNA PUT ON SEMINARS AND I WANNA PUT ON PUPPET SHOWS, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.
I WOULD, YOU'D BE A REALLY GOOD PUPPETEER TOM.
I MEAN, I LOOKED AT THIS WHEN, WHEN I WAS ASKED TO BE ON IT AS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GONNA LEARN AND SHARE INFORMATION.
THAT'S GOOD STUFF LIKE THAT MEADOW THING.
I MEAN, I NEVER, AND THIS IS THIS, I MEAN, IF IT WASN'T FOR AN ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COMMISSION WHO, WHO, YOU KNOW, WHAT ENTITY IN THE TOWNSHIP MIGHT BRING THIS TO ATTENTION? WELL, AND, AND I MEAN TECHNICALLY BY NPC IT WOULD BE THE PLANNING COMMISSION THAT WOULD SORT OF BRING THAT FORWARD.
CUZ THEY'RE THE ADVISORY BOARD OR PARKS AND REC OR PARKS AND REC PUBLIC SPACES.
I MEAN EVEN MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY SOMEWHAT.
BUT IT'S, IT'S ALL SORT OF, EVERYBODY COULD DO IT, BUT EVERYBODY ELSE'S SORT OF HAS THEIR MAIN TASK AND THAT TAKES UP MOST OF THEIR TIME.
THIS, I THINK THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WAS LOOKING AT IT, HEY, WHERE CAN WE FILL IN THOSE THINGS AND FILL IN THOSE AREAS THAT ARE ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE THAT WE CAN HAVE SOMEONE EDUCATE AND BRING THESE IDEAS TO US.
AND THAT I'M ALL FOR THAT I THINK IS, ANYTIME YOU EDUCATE PEOPLE AND YOU HAVE GOOD IDEAS, THAT'S GOOD STUFF.
UM, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE MAKING RULES.
I MAKE A QUICK COMMENT ON THAT.
SO ON THE, MY KIND OF THOUGHT ON, ON THE, LIKE, ON THE RULE MAKING IS LIKE, WE'RE RIGHT, WE SHOULDN'T BE MAKING THE RIGHT
WELL, I MEAN, YOU'RE ADVISING, I MEAN, LET'S JUST SAY YOU'RE ADVISING JUST ADVISED.
YOU'RE ADVISING THAT THESE RULES MAY OR MAY NOT BE IMPORTANT.
AND AND I, I KIND OF LOOK AT THAT, LIKE THE EXAMPLE OF THE, THE SOLAR PANELS AND PUTTING THEM IN THE YARD VERSUS ON THE ROOF AND YOU KNOW, LIKE THAT ACCESSORY USE, UM, LAWS THERE, YOU KNOW, LIKE TO, TO OUR POSITIONS, WE SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO
[00:35:01]
SAY LIKE, HEY, THAT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND TAKE IT BACK TO JEFF.TO SOMEBODY ELSE AND SAY, HEY, WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT LAWYERS, WE'RE NOT ORDINANCE WRITERS.
AND I, YOU KNOW, WE THINK THAT IT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE IF YOU COULD USE IT.
YOU KNOW, MAYBE MORE PEOPLE WOULD DO THAT AND WE WOULD HAVE MORE SOLAR PANELS.
YOU MEAN TO PUT 'EM IN YOUR YARD AREA INSTEAD OF PUTTING 'EM ON YOUR ROOF.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK OUR, OUR POSITION SHOULD BE, OR OUR JOB IN SOMETHING LIKE THAT SHOULD JUST BE TO BE LIKE, YEAH, WE THINK IT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE THAT WAS LOOSER.
AND THEN LET SOMEBODY ELSE MAKE THE RULE.
EVERYTHING ELSE, THAT'S, YEAH.
THAT'S KIND OF MY JOB, SO, YEAH.
NO, BUT, BUT, AND I GUESS MAYBE I, I PUSH A LITTLE FAR, BUT IT WAS, THE IDEA WAS IF THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT, EVEN IF IT'S MEADOWS AND WE, WE WANNA MOVE THE MEADOW THING FORWARD AS A SUGGESTION.
WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE IT A FULL RULE, BUT WE CAN, WE CAN GET TO THE POINT TO WHERE WE WRITE, YOU KNOW, A A WHITE PAPER OR A, A LETTER OR SOMETHING ABOUT IT TO THE TOWNSHIP AND IT JUST GOES UP ON THE WEBSITE SO THAT IT EDUCATES.
SO IT'S SOMETHING TO CLICK ON SO THAT IT'S, IT'S INFORMATION SO THAT WE USE DC AND R'S FILE AS, AS A BASIS.
BUT IF YOU MOVE THAT FORWARD AND YOU EDIT IT AND YOU SAY, THIS IS WHAT I THINK IS HOW I WANT THE TOWNSHIP TO GO.
IT'S NOT A RULE, BUT IT'S AN INTERPRETATION.
AND I GUESS THEN, YEAH, THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A RULE AND SAYING, HEY, HERE'S A GOOD IDEA IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO COME ON.
NOW, THE RULE SIDE OF IT COULD BE, FOR INSTANCE, IF SOMEBODY COMES FORWARD WITH A, A BIG SUBDIVISION AND THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF OPEN SPACE BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS NOW THAT VEGETATION WOULD TYPICALLY BE CALLED OUT.
CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE COULD BE A RULE THAT SAYS THAT VEGETATION HAS TO BE X, Y, OR Z.
WELL, AS VERSUS AS A P PERSON THAT'S ON THE PLATY COMMISSION, AND THIS IS WHAT WE DO, WE HEAR THESE KIND OF THINGS, WE NEVER REALLY FOCUS ON THAT.
AND MAYBE WE NEED TO START DOING THAT MORE.
WELL, SOME ENGINEER DOES, I'M SURE.
PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO NO, THEY, THEY, WE FOCUS ON IT, BUT THEY'LL SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA PLANT FIVE TREES OUT IN THE FRONT AND IF THAT'S THE CODE, THAT'S THE END OF IT.
WELL, BUT THE RULE, THE RULE MIGHT BE THAT THOSE FIVE TREES HAVE TO BE A NATIVE SPECIES.
IT WELL, IT'S NOT, WE HAVE A TREE PLANTING LIST AND WE HAVE OH, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.
AND WE HAVE AN ENGINEER THAT, OUR ENGINEER, THEY HAVE A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT THAT REVIEWS ALL OF OUR PLANS.
NOW, SOMETIMES THOSE TREE PLANTING LISTS DON'T GET CHANGED AS OFTEN AS THEY SHOULD.
I'VE NEVER SEEN SOMEBODY COME IN HERE AS PLANT COMMISSION AND SAY, WE'RE GONNA PLANT THESE FIVE TREES.
BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME THEY PUT A LANDSCAPE PLAN AND THEN IF THE LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT POINTS ANYTHING OUT, THEY JUST SAY, WE WILL COMPLY.
BECAUSE IT'S REALLY, IT'S NOT A TECHNICAL ISSUE.
SO IT'S RELATIVELY EASY TO DO.
BUT IF WE GO THROUGH A MEADOW SEMINAR AND YOU AS A, AS A EAC SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, I THINK THE OPTION FOR MEADOWS SHOULD BE SPELLED OUT IN THE ORDINANCE, NOT A REQUIREMENT, BUT SPELL OUT IN LANDSCAPE ORDINANCE THAT THAT MEADOWS WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDED OR HIGHLY RECOMMENDED IN AREAS THAT ARE GREATER THAN A CERTAIN OPEN SPACES THAT ARE IN GREATER THAN A CERTAIN SQUARE FOOTAGE.
AND LET'S H LET'S HOPE THAT ANY LAND DEVELOPMENTS MOVING FORWARD DO THAT, THAT THAT, THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.
I MEAN, I, I AND I TALKED TO AN ENGINEER SINCE I WENT TO THIS THING AND, AND ASKED HIM SPECIFICALLY IF SOMEONE'S DESIGNING, YOU KNOW, FOR A SINGLE FAMILY HOME ON A TWO ACRE LOT FOR, AND THEY PUT IN A PLANTING SCHEME THAT CALLS FOR ALL MEADOW, WOULD THE CALCULATIONS FOR THE BASINS BE REDUCED? AND HIS REPLY WAS THAT ACTUALLY THE MEADOW WILL ABSORB MORE WATER THAN A LAWN, BUT THEY DO NOT ALLOW IT IN THE CALCULATIONS YET BECAUSE THEY CAN'T DICTATE WHAT THE HOMEOWNER HAS TO DO MIGHT DO WITH THAT MEDICAL.
WE, WE GET A LOT OF PEOPLE TO SAY, OH, YOU KNOW, THANK YOU FOR SAVING THE TREES BEHIND MY HOUSE.
AND I ALWAYS TELL THEM, WELL, ONCE THAT HOUSE IS OUT OF, ONCE THAT HOUSE IS OWNED BY SOMEONE ELSE, I CAN'T CONTROL THOSE TREES.
THAT SOMEONE MAY CUT THEM ALL DOWN AND, AND THERE'S NOT MUCH I CAN DO ABOUT THAT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, WE TRY TO SAVE WHAT WE CAN.
SO, SO WITH ALL WE'VE JUST SAID HERE AND WHAT, WHAT DOES, HOW DOES THAT PLAY INTO WHAT OUR NEXT STEPS ARE? WELL, I THINK OUR NEXT STEPS AND CERTAINLY DIRECT ME HOWEVER YOU WANT TO.
UM, I, I THINK, LIKE I SAID, IN JANUARY WE SORT OF, WE'LL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE BASINS AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT LIKE THE TREE COVER IN THE TOWNSHIP AND I'LL BRING SOME MAPS AND WE'LL SORT OF GET FAMILIAR WITH THE ENVIRONMENTAL PARTS OF THE TOWNSHIP AND REORGANIZATION.
UM, JANUARY'S MEETING MIGHT BE LIKE THIS ONE WITH A PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AFTER IT.
SO WE SHOULDN'T PLAN ON A VERY LONG MEETING.
I, I THINK WE SHOULD AIM TO HAVE A PRESENTATION BY DC AND R I THINK IF, IF TOM CAN LINE UP, UM, DC AND R
[00:40:01]
TO COME HERE, WE CAN PUBLICIZE IT.I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY WE'LL GET, BUT EVEN IF IT'S JUST TO EDUCATE US A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, ON IT, WORK WITH SARAH.
CAUSE I'M SURE SHE KNOWS THE PERSON AT DC AND R TO GET SOME PEOPLE OUT HERE TO EDUCATE US ON BASINS AND MEADOWS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND THEN IN OUR MAIN MEETING, MAYBE THAT'S WHEN WE, WE FOCUS ON THE HOA AND MAYBE WE HAVE IT OUTSIDE AND WE, YOU KNOW, WE'LL MAKE A POINT TO TRY TO CANCEL THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING SO WE CAN GO A LITTLE BIT LONGER.
WE'LL HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE SUNLIGHT, WE'LL BE A LITTLE BIT WARMER.
WE CAN HAVE IN THE PAVILION OUT THERE AND WE CAN HAVE SOME MORE PRESENTATION ON THINGS THAT HOAS NEED TO NEED TO KNOW ABOUT.
AND THAT'LL BE OUR FIRST FORAY INTO EDUCATION.
GIVE US THE FIRST COUPLE MEETINGS TO EDUCATE OURSELVES SO WE'RE NOT SITTING THERE GOING, WELL, I DON'T KNOW THIS, TALK TO THAT EXPERT.
AND THEN IN MAY START THE HOA MEETING.
AND THEN AFTER THAT WE'LL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW JULY, SEPTEMBER AND NOVEMBER GO.
IS THERE ANYBODY ON THIS BOARD THAT HAS A, UM, PERSONAL, AND I DUNNO IF THAT'S THE RIGHT WORD, BUT A PERSONAL ISSUE THAT THEY'RE WOULD LIKE TO SEE US TACKLE IN TERMS OF A SEMINAR, UH, INFORMATIONAL GATHERING? UH, IS THERE A, DOES ANYBODY HAVE A SPECIFIC ISSUE LIKE MEADOWS THAT WE, WE WANT TO TARGET? DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN IDEA LIKE THAT? WELL, I, I MEAN, I WAS, I WAS GONNA MAKE A MOTION THAT WE HOST SOMETHING JUST LIKE THIS NOW THAT THIS WAS A HALF DAY COMMITMENT.
UM, AND MAYBE YOU HAVE A BETTER IDEA, JEFF, WITH MAYBE WE JUST HAVE THE PEOPLE FROM DCN R COME AND SPEAK, WHICH WOULD BE STILL MAYBE A, A CLOSE TO AN HOUR PRESENTATION.
I I'M JUST, I AND I THAT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE VERY INTERESTED IN AND IT SOUNDS INTERESTING.
BUT DO, DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY PERSONAL TOPICS THAT YOU COULD SAY, HEY, WE NEED TO TACKLE, UH, EDIBLE FISH IN THE SKEEL
SO I, I I'M NOT, IT'S NOT A BAD THING NOT TO, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, OR CHARGING STATIONS.
OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, HE'S GOT SOME REAL PASSION ABOUT THIS AND IT'S GOOD STUFF.
DO WE, DOES ANYBODY HAVE THAT? I DON'T RIGHT NOW.
MAYBE IN THE FUTURE LEARN MORE.
SEE, WELL THAT'S GOOD WATER'S.
AND THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD ONE.
WE PROBABLY SHOULD TALK MORE ABOUT WATER.
AND THERE ARE SOME THINGS WITH, UM, UM, IT'S STILL DISCUSS ABOUT ON THE MUNICIPAL WATER FEET.
IT'S NOT, YEAH, I'M, I'M NOT SURE I WASN'T AT THAT MEETING.
I KNOW IT WAS DISCUSSED, BUT I WASN'T AWARE.
I, I WASN'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SUPERVISOR'S FEELINGS ON IT ARE.
I WOULD, I WOULD THINK THAT, AND I DON'T KNOW, I WASN'T THERE EITHER, OBVIOUSLY, BUT I'M A SUPERVISOR.
DO I WANT MY NAME ATTACHED TO ANOTHER FEE? MM-HMM.
UH, THAT'S ALWAYS A QUESTION, YOU KNOW, IF I'M THE GUY CHARGING SAYING, HEY, I WANNA PUT THIS FEE, WHATEVER, IT'S $50 A YEAR, IS THIS AN INSPECTION FEE OR NO, IT'S JUST, UM, BASED ON HOW MUCH PERVIOUS SURFACE YOU HAVE.
SO IF YOU HAVE FOUR CAR GARAGE IN A BIG DRIVEWAY, YOU'RE GONNA PAY A LITTLE.
SO, WELL, LIKE THE TYPICAL ED, AND AGAIN, NOT TO GO, UM, TYPICAL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY WOULD PAY LIKE 48 A YEAR.
I SAID 50, LIKE A TOWNHOUSE MIGHT GET, YOU KNOW, LIKE $24 A YEAR.
IT'S, THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION NOW AND I, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE SUPERVISORS ARE GONNA GO WITH IT BECAUSE THERE'S DISCUSSION ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, CREDITS FOR SIZE, CREDITS FOR RAIN BARRELS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
THAT, THAT IT'S HIGHLY COMPLICATED.
AND I THINK THEY'RE STILL LOOKING INTO A LOT OF TOWNSHIPS AND MUNICIPALITIES AND SEEING WHAT, WHAT ELSE THEY DO SO WELL.
SO, SO THAT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S A SUBJECT MAYBE WE SHOULD LOOK MORE INTO ON HO TO YOUR POINT, WATER.
AND, AND THAT, SO, SO THE MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY IS, IS DOING SOME OF THAT ALREADY.
UM, BUT WE CERTAIN DON'T STEP ON THERE.
ME PERSONALLY, I'VE BEEN IN THE WATER BUSINESS
[00:45:01]
WATER'S KINDA MY THING.AND I'M NOT SAYING I WOULD JUST LIKE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THAT.
YOU KNOW, WHAT TO DO WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT RAINS NOW I DON'T REALLY THINK MUCH OF IT OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, I FIGURE THAT WATER IS GOING SOMEWHERE, YOU KNOW.
UM, SO THAT'S ANOTHER LEARNING CURVE.
UH, A FRIEND OF MINE'S ON, UH, THE EAC IN NORTH COVENTRY AND HE SAID, UH, AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR, ALL THE EACS IN A CERTAIN AREA, AND I DON'T KNOW IF MONTGOMERY COUNTY OR ALL NORTHERN CHESTER COUNTY, BUT THEY HAVE A, A SORT OF A REGIONAL EAC MEETING YEAH.
REPRESENTATIVE FROM EJA AND THEY JUST GET TOGETHER AND TALK ABOUT WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING? WHAT, WHAT YOU WELL THAT'S, I WAS JUST, WELL YOU MENTIONED THAT I WAS JUST GONNA ASK, HE DIDN'T, WHAT IS THAT? HE DIDN'T KNOW WHEN THE NEXT STATE WAS, BUT HE SAID HE WAS GONNA LET ME KNOW SO THAT IF YOU KNOW ANYBODY FROM OUR GROUP WANTS TO ATTEND THAT JUST TO SIT IN AND LISTEN, BUT, AND HE'S YOUR FRIEND.
HAVE YOU EVER ASKED HIM WHAT THEY'RE WORKING ON? WELL, NOT LIKE WHAT ARE THEY WORKING ON? I MEAN, I KNOW HIM FROM THE AUDUBON SOCIETY.
SO MOST OF MY DISCUSSION WITH HIM IS RELATIVE PREFERENCE.
WELL, AND, AND I'VE HAD OFFERS, UM, THERE'S A GENTLEMAN FROM THE LOWER PROVIDENCE EAC THAT FOR WHATEVER REASON WE CAN'T SEEM TO CONNECT, BUT HE'S LEFT ME MESSAGES SAYING THAT HE WOULD LOVE TO, HE WOULD BE WILLING TO COME OUT AND CHAT OR WORK WITH US ON SOME THINGS.
UM, I KNOW THAT, THAT SARAH KNOWS A COUPLE PEOPLE ON OTHER EACS THAT THEY COULD COME IN AND, AND TALK TO US.
AND WE DON'T HAVE A TIMETABLE.
WELL, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE SOMEONE ELSE COME, WHAT OTHER MUNICIPALITIES ARE DOING, WHAT THEY'RE WORKING ON OR WHAT THEY SEE IS IMPORTANT AND HOW THEY'RE TACKLING IT.
WHY DON'T WE DO THAT FOR JANUARY, THEN I'LL TALK TO SARAH, WE'LL FIND OUT WHO BILL'S FRIEND TOM.
BILL'S FRIEND IS, AND THEN WE'LL GO FROM THERE AND WE'LL SEE IF WE CAN LINE UP A COUPLE.
YEAH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD START TO LEARN.
AND SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING.
HIS NAME'S JOHN WORTH AND I, I THINK HE'S ACTUALLY THE CHAIRMAN OF THAT EAC AND SCHOOL TOWNSHIP.
THEY'VE, THEY'VE HAD A LONG HISTORY EAC, OILY.
WELL, I THINK IF THAT'S TRUE AND THERE'S THOSE PEOPLE OUT THERE, THEY'RE WILLING TO COME IN AND SAY, HERE'S WHAT WE'VE DONE OVER THE YEARS, OR, YOU KNOW, HERE'S MORE.
THAT WOULD BE SO HELPFUL, I THINK, IN GETTING US, I'LL, GETTING US EXCITED OR STARTED ON SOMETHING.
I THINK I HAVE EVERYBODY'S EMAIL HERE, SO AS I SEE STUFF OR GATHER INFORMATION, I'LL FORWARD IT TO YOU PLEASE.
AND IF YOU WANNA FORWARD IT TO ME, I CAN FORWARD IT ON, I CAN'T SAY I'M GONNA BE PERFECT WITH THAT, CUZ SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, I'LL GET IT AND OH YEAH, I'LL DO THAT.
I'LL DO THAT IN A DAY OR SO AND THEN ITSY ME.
UM, BUT I, YOU KNOW, I'M HAPPY TO BE THE CONDUIT, SO WITH SARAH, SO YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SENDING IT TO YOU AND SARAH.
I THINK I FORWARDED, YEAH, I THINK I FORWARDED THAT OUT.
SO
I'VE SEEING THE OTHER THING YOU SENT, BUT I NEVER SEEING THAT, SO, OKAY.
WELL I HATE TO CUT THIS SHORT GOOD START.
THAT'S WHAT I'LL PLAN FOR JANUARY.
AND, UH, WE WILL, UM, WE'LL GET MOVING AND I GOTTA TURN THE ROOM OVER REAL QUICK.
WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT DOING DECEMBER.
WELL THEN, UH, WITH THAT, GIVE A SECOND, UH, GOOD CONVERSATION.
AND, AND I GUESS WE ALL NEED TO LEARN, YOU KNOW.
I I NEED TO LEARN AS MUCH AS YOU DO, TOM.
SO, UH, WITH THAT THOUGH, AND BILL, THANK YOU.
UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN ON ROLL.
NEED ADJOURN? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.