[CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL]
[00:00:06]
WE'LL ORDER THE WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 5TH, UH, MEETING OF THE, UH, UPPER PROVIDENCE PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND, UH, WITH THAT WE WILL, UH, WE WILL, UH, TAKE A ROLL CALL, JEFF, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE.
NICOLE LA DANA IS ABSENT TODAY.
JEN SHAW AND ANTHONY VALENCIA AND MYSELF ARE HERE AS CONSULTANTS.
SO, UH, WE'LL START THE, UH, UH, THE MEETING WITH, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS. IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR NON AGENDA ITEMS? OKAY, NOT HEARING ANY, UH,
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
WE'LL MOVE TO, UH, UH, THE MEETING MINUTES FROM, UH, SEPTEMBER 7TH.IS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE MEETING MINUTES FROM SEPTEMBER 7TH? AND IF SO, UM, DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO, UH, ACCEPT THE MINUTES AND, UH, MOVE FORWARD? I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES.
ALL, UH, BOB GOER'S MADE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.
AND, UH, WITH THAT ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
SO WE'LL MOVE, UH, ACCEPT THE MINUTES, JEFF, AND MOVE FORWARD THERE.
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON OCTOBER 5, 2022]
AND THAT BRINGS US TO THE APPLICATION TO BE HEARD ON OCTOBER 5TH, WHICH IS, UH, THE FIRST ONE WILL BE THE HOPWOOD ROAD, A MINOR SUBDIVISION.IT LOOKS LIKE A LOT LINE CHANGE.
UH, NAME AND, UH, IDENTIFICATION.
I'M AN ENGINEER WITH INLAND DESIGN.
I'M HERE TONIGHT ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANTS, UH, THE CASTIN WHO ARE HERE, UH, AS WELL AS, UH, ERIC WARREN, WHO'S PARCELS ARE ALSO INVOLVED.
UH, IF YOU'RE ABLE TO PUT THE PLAN UP.
JEFF, UH, JUST TO KIND OF GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW, THIS IS A SIMPLE LOT LINE CHANGE PLAN.
THERE'S NO NEW CONSTRUCTION PROPOSED AND NO NEW LOTS BEING PROPOSED AS A PART OF THIS.
UH, WHAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED AS LOT ONE, UH, OWNED BY MR. WARREN HAS EXISTING HOUSE WITH ACCESS ON BETEL ROAD.
UH, WHAT WE'RE CALLING LOT TWO IS A TRIANGULAR PIECE, UH, IS CURRENTLY VACANT AND IT'S LANDLOCKED AND LOT THREE, UH, HERE OWNED BY THE CAS, WHICH HAS ACCESS TO HOPWOOD ROAD AND HAS A HOUSE ON IT.
UH, AND WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED IS THIS, IS THAT, UH, LOT TWO IS BEING DIVIDED INTO TWO PIECES AND ADDED TO LOT ONE AND LOT THREE.
UH, SO PARCEL A OUTLINED HERE IS GOING TO LOT ONE PARCEL C AND IN THE DARKER PATCH IS GOING TO LOT THREE HERE.
AND THEN A TRIANGULAR PIECE, UH, THAT IS CURRENTLY PART OF LOT THREE IS BEING TRANSFERRED TO LOT ONE ALSO AS A PARCEL PIECE.
SO THE END RESULT BEING THAT LOT ONE IS THIS OUTLINE HERE CONTAINING THE EXISTING HOUSE.
AND LOT THREE BECOMES THIS OUTLINE HERE CONTAINING THIS EXISTING HOUSE.
UM, AND I CAN GO INTO DETAILS OF THE ACREAGES IF THAT'S HELPFUL.
UH, BUT EXCUSE ME, OPEN IT UP FOR ANY QUESTIONS AGAIN, JUST, UH, TO REITERATE, THERE'S NO NEW CONSTRUCTION AND NO NEW LOTS BEING CREATED.
NO PLANS TO PLANES, PLANS TO DO SOMETHING.
IS THERE ANY EXISTING UTILITIES RUNNING UNDERNEATH? NO, I, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THE, THE LOT THAT IS BEING SUBDIVIDED IS, IS VACANT, HAS NO LATERALS GOING TO IT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
UM, I GUESS I SHOULD ALSO MENTION WE HAVE, UH, REVIEW LETTERS, UH, FROM GILMORE, UM, AND MCMAN AND ALSO MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION.
UM, AND WE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A COUPLE MINOR COMMENTS, UH, COMPLY WITH THE ONE COMMENT I SHOULD MENTION, UM, IN THE GILMORE LETTER, UH, IS THAT WE, UH, WILL BE REQUESTING A WAIVER FROM 1 54 18 C, UH, TO, SO THAT THERE'S NO NEED FOR ROAD WIDENING OR RIGHT AWAY WIDENING AS A PART OF THIS, SINCE THERE'S NO NEW CONSTRUCTION
SO JANE OR ANTHONY ENOUGH FROM YOU GUYS, THERE IS NOT NOTHING ON OUR END.
WE JUST NOTED ONE ADMINISTRATIVE ITEM IN TERMS OF A DATE ON THE PLAN, BUT BESIDES THAT, WE HAD NO OTHER ISSUES.
[00:05:01]
NOW, IN REGARDING THE RIGHT OF WAY, THAT IS SOMETHING ON HOPWOOD ROAD THAT WAS ACTUALLY A WAIVER GRANTED DURING THE 180 8 BETAL ROAD SUBDIVISION AND DEVELOPMENT THAT WAS DONE DOWN THERE.IT JUST DOESN'T CARRY THROUGH TO THIS PROJECT.
SO IT'S MORE OF A FORMALITY, BUT YOU'VE EVALUATED THAT IN THE PAST.
SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THIS BOARD? GO? ANYTHING WE'RE MISSING? NO.
SO, UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION IF EVERYBODY THINKS TO APPROVE THIS, TO MOVE IT ON TO THE, UH, SUPERVISORS.
IS THERE ANYBODY ANY COMMENTS OTHER THAN THAT? ANY OTHER COMMENTS, PUBLIC COMMENTS? NOPE.
I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, UH, RECOMMEND APPROVAL FOR THE LINE ADJUSTMENT.
UH, I GOT A MOTION TO, UH, TO APPROVE IN A SECOND.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM ANYONE BEFORE WE VOTE? NOT HEARING ANY.
SO THAT MOVES US TO THE NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE'VE, UH, LOOKED AT BEFORE ABOUT A YEAR AGO, WE THINK, JEFF, UH, THE AMELIA STREET TOWNHOUSES, AND I KNOW THAT, UH, WE HAD SOME STEEP SLOPE AND WATER ISSUES AND THINGS TO TALK ABOUT, BUT, UH, ANYBODY HERE REPRESENTING THAT GROUP? YES.
LISA DEANDRE FROM MID SKI ASSOCIATES.
I'M THE ENGINEER ON THE PROJECT.
UH, WE ALSO HAVE, UH, THE CLIENT FRANCIS POLIO HERE WITH US TONIGHT.
THE, THE APPLICANT AND, UH, JEFF, WHO HELP ME, OH, I'M SORRY.
UH, THE APPLICANT IS US THIS EVENING, FRANCIS BULLION.
UH, WE, THE, THE PLAN IN FRONT OF US IS FURTHER, IT'S A TENTATIVE SKETCH FURTHER DEVELOP THAN WHAT WE HAD IN FRONT OF YOU ALMOST A YEAR AGO.
UH, THE PLANS HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED TO THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY CONSERVATION DISTRICT.
WERE AWAITING THEIR REVIEW, UH, BEFORE MAKING APPLICATION TO THE ZONING HEARING BOARD FOR THE STEEP SLOPE ISSUES ON THE SITE.
UH, THE PLAN SHOWS ADDITIONAL DETAIL WITH RESPECT TO STORM WATER, UH, GRADING UTILITIES, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE NEEDED IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT.
UH, WE LOOKED AT A LETTER FROM, UH, MCMAHON ASSOCIATES.
UH, UNFORTUNATELY WE DID NOT, I DID NOT, I WAS NOT AWARE OF THE LETTER FROM THE TOWNSHIP ENGINEER.
UM, I, I, I THINK, AND, AND I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO, TO READ THROUGH IT.
UM, I THINK IF ANYTHING, WE MIGHT WANNA ADDRESS THE, UH, ANY CONCERNS WITH THE STEEP SLOPES BECAUSE THAT IS OUR KIND OF NEXT STEP FORWARD WITH THE PROJECT, UH, OR ANYTHING THAT PLANNING COMMISSION HAS ON THEIR MIND OR THE ENGINEERS.
WELL, IF MY MEMORY, UH, WHICH IS NOT THAT GREAT, BUT IF MY MEMORY IS, THAT WAS ONE OF OUR CONCERNS WAS THE SLEEP SLOPED.
AND I THINK THE ENGINEERS AND YOU FOLKS ARE GONNA TALK SOME MORE.
AND, AND, UM, SO WHAT, UH, WHAT EXACTLY CAME OUT OF THAT? IS THERE ANYTHING, ANYTHING CHANGE, UH, FROM THAT? OKAY.
UH, OUR GRADING PLAN, UM, UH, JEFF, DO YOU HAVE THIS SECOND? UH, OKAY.
UH, WE DEVELOPED A GRADING PLAN.
THE RESULTANT SLOPES ON THE SITE WILL BE, UH, NOT STEEP, VERY GENTLE.
UH, WE HAVE A LOWER LEVEL ENTRANCE INTO THE BASEMENT, UH, AND AN UPPER
[00:10:01]
LEVEL ACCESS IN THE REAR OF THE BUILDING.UH, WE WILL BE PROVIDING A RETAINING WALL ALONG THE REAR OF THE UNITS.
AND CONSEQUENTLY, UH, WE ADDRESSING THE SLOPES WITH THE DESIGN, UH, SO THAT WHEN THE PROJECT IS COMPLETE, THERE WILL NOT BE ISSUES WITH, UH, STABILIZATION EROSION OR, UH, STEEP SLOPES.
SO YOU'RE USING THE RETAINING WALL AND THE HOUSE ACTUALLY AS WAYS OF REDUCING THAT SLOPE? THAT IS CORRECT.
DOES THERE ORDINANCE ALLOW THAT USING THE HOUSE TO ELIMINATE THE SLOPE? I GUESS IT DOES.
UH, THERE'S ONE CATCHALL PHRASE IN THE ORDINANCE.
UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S WHERE IT'S NOT TO ME A CLEAR CUT VARIANCE BECAUSE IT SAYS UNLESS NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE EXISTS.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, UTILIZING THE HOUSE IN A STEEP SLOPE AREA, IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT A TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT WHERE THEY HAVE, SAY, EXPOSED BASEMENTS, THIS IS THE SAME THING EXCEPT IT'S IN REVERSE.
WE PARDON? THAT'S YOUR ARGUMENT TO MAKE ATTORNEY.
ACTUALLY, I WAS GOING TO, I WAS GOING TO RAISE THAT POINT SEPARATELY.
UM, IT'S NOW BEEN 22 YEARS SINCE THE BAR ASSOCIATION RULED THAT CORPORATE APPLICANTS ON LAND DEVELOPMENT MATTERS HAVE TO BE REPRESENTED BY COUNCIL.
INDIVIDUALS CAN USE AN ENGINEER.
UH, THIS IS THE, THIS IS OWNERS IDENTIFIED AS AN LLC, WHICH IS A FORM OF CORPORATION.
AND SO THEY, YOU'RE REALLY ENGAGED IN THE UNAUTHORIZED PRACTICE OF LAW IF YOU'RE HERE O ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT.
NOW WE'RE ONLY AT TENTATIVE, SO IT'S THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY TO BRING IT UP, BUT IT WOULD BE A PROBLEM MOVING FORWARD, AND IT WOULD CERTAINLY BE AN EVEN BIGGER PROBLEM.
IF THERE'S ANY ZONING, HEARING, BOARD RELIEF NEEDED, WE WILL MOST CERTAINLY HAVE AN ATTORNEY, UH, WITH THE ZONING HEARING BOARD, IN FACT, MEETING WITH AN ATTORNEY NEXT WEEK.
SO WE'LL BE FOLLOWING THAT UP WITH AN APPLICATION.
UM, I GOT A QUESTION, JENNIFER.
SOUNDS LIKE THEY DID NOT SEE YOUR LETTER DATED OCTOBER 3RD.
YOU HAVE, HAVE ANY CHANCE TO REVIEW THAT? DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERN THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE THEY AT THE RIGHT STAGE TO COME TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION IF THEY HAVE ANY CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE SUBSTANTIAL NOTES THAT WERE ALREADY IN THAT DOCUMENT SO THEY'RE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION THAT THEY NEED SPECIAL EXCEPTION SLASH VARIANCE FOR WORKING IN THE STEEP SLOPES? UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A DIFFERENT PLAN THAT MIGHT SHOW HATCHING ON THEIR, I MEAN, THE MAJORITY OF THE SITE DOES HAVE STEEP SLOPES ON IT.
THERE ARE ALLOWED USES IN STEEP SLOPES, UM, AND THERE ARE PROHIBITED USES.
AND ONE OF THE PROHIBITED IS RETAINING WALLS, WHICH IS WHAT THEY HAVE IN THE BACK THERE.
UM, THERE PROPOSING STORM WATER, THEY'RE PROPOSING GRADING, THEY HAVE ROAD WIDENING, THEY HAVE PARKING, I MEAN, OTHER ISSUES.
NOW, THE, THE, I THINK IT'S NOTED LOT ONE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE THAT WOULD NEED SOME FOR SORT OF ACCESS.
UM, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE FROM BRIDGE STREET, ALTHOUGH THAT'S WHERE THE FRONTAGE IS.
UM, BUT THEY WOULD NEED ACCESS TO THAT LOT.
UM, BUT YEAH, IT'S, I MEAN, DISCUSSION OF TENTATIVE SKETCH.
BUT THEY, THEY NEED THE STEEP SLOPE RELIEF THAT, THAT, THAT THAT SHOULD BE REALLY THEIR NEXT STEP.
IS THAT WHAT THEY SHOULD SAYING? THEY NEED TO GET THAT DONE? I BELIEVE SO, YEAH.
AND AS YOU GUYS, YOUR CALL, THAT'S REALLY, THAT'S THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TENTATIVE AND PRELIMINARY, IS THAT THEY HAVE TO ENGINEER EVERYTHING UP FOR PRELIMINARY TENTATIVE SKETCHES.
I WALKED THIS DURING THE RAINSTORM HAD RECENTLY ALWAYS RAINING, ISN'T IT
AND THERE WAS A FAIR AMOUNT OF WATER FROM THE UPPER SIDE THAT WAS RUNNING DOWN TO THE SITE, WHETHER IT ACTUALLY WENT DOWN WHERE THE HOUSES ARE, I DON'T
[00:15:01]
KNOW.OR WHETHER YOUR PROPOSED RETAINING WARRANTS, THAT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.
UH, THAT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE OUR TOPOGRAPHY SHOWS THAT THE, AND AND OUR, OUR OUR SURVEY SHOWS THAT THE, UM, RAILROAD TRACKS ARE SORT OF A DIVIDING LINE WITH THE DRAINAGE AREA AND EVERYTHING NORTH OF THE TRACKS FLOWS IN AN EASTERLY DIRECTION TOWARDS BRIDGE STREET.
SO ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THE, THE RUNOFF WAS COMING FROM, UH, THAT AREA? IT, I WAS ACTUALLY, I CIRCLED THE WHOLE PROPERTY, BUT THE OBSERVATION THAT I MADE, THAT I JUST REFERRED TO WAS FROM THE UPPER ROAD WALKING DOWN A LITTLE WAYS INTO THE WOODED AREA, AND YOU COULD SEE THE WATER THAT WAS RUNNING DOWN THERE.
NOW, IT WASN'T A FLOOD, BUT IT WAS A FAIR AMOUNT OF WATER.
OF COURSE, WE WERE HAVING HARD RAIN TOO, BUT SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.
IT COULD BE THAT THE RA, THE RAILROAD TRACKS WILL AVERT THAT.
I DON'T KNOW, JUST SOMETHING TO MENTION.
UH, WELL, I'LL LOOK AT IT MORE CLOSELY.
UM, I HAVE NOT ISSUED A FORMAL OPINION TO THE TOWNSHIP YET.
I HAVEN'T REACHED A FORMAL CONCLUSION ABOUT THE BILLBOARDS.
UM, STAFF DOES NOT LIKE THE BILLBOARDS, SO WE WOULD RATHER NOT SEE THE BILLBOARDS.
I WILL TELL YOU THAT I, THERE IS A QUESTION AS TO WHETHER IT'S A CONTINUATION OF A NONCONFORMITY.
IF YOU CREATE NEW LOTS AND NOW THE BILLBOARDS ARE THE FIRST USE ON A NEW LOT.
THEY MAY NOT BE, THEY MAY BE REQUIRED TO BE A CONFORMING USE AS OPPOSED TO THE CONTINUATION OF A NONCONFORMITY.
SO TONIGHT I'M SAYING THAT AS THIS PROCESS IS NOW GETTING STARTED, WE'RE AT TENTATIVE.
IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT I'M LOOKING AT.
THANK YOU FOR LETTING US KNOW.
WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A, A LOT MORE STUFF TO DO BEFORE, UH, BEFORE.
SO WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'LL TAKE THIS AS A TENTATIVE TONIGHT, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR.
UM, AND, UH, WAIT FOR THE NEXT STEP IN TERMS OF, UH, THE ZONING AND THEN, UH, JEN TO LOOK AT IT DIFFERENT THINGS AND MAKE SURE THAT THE, THE WATER IS RUNNING, UH, THE RIGHT WAY OF WHAT BOB OBSERVED.
SO, UH, AT THIS POINT, I GUESS WE'LL JUST, UH, A ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC? I SEE SOME OTHER PUBLIC PEOPLE.
I, I HAVE ONE OTHER YES, THERE REFERENCE IN, YOU HAVE TO COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE.
I'M ONE OF THE DESIGNERS ON THE PROJECT.
THE ONE DEED, UH, THE TRIPLE T FARM DEED ALSO REFERS TO THAT PARCEL.
THERE'S KIND OF A, AN L-SHAPE PARCEL, AND I THINK IT SAYS SOMETHING LIKE ALSO INCLUDES THAT PARCEL NUMBER.
IT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE OBVIOUSLY I'M LOOKING AT RIGHT RECORDS.
WE CAN GET, UH, WE CAN GET A COPY OF THE D THAT'S NO PROBLEM.
SO JOE, WHAT'S OUR, WHAT'S OUR MISSION FOR THIS AT THIS POINT? UM, SUBJECT TO THE IDENTIFIED, YOU COULD, UH, MOVE IT ON TO FOR PRELIMINARY.
I WOULD RATHER, I KNOW I CAN REQUIRE THAT WELL BE MY RECOMMENDATION.
THE ONLY, THE ONLY, THE ONLY REQUIREMENT THAT WE CAN IMPOSE IS THAT THEY HAVE ZONING RELIEF BY THE TIME THEY SEEK FINAL APPROVAL, THEY HAVE TO GET IT AT SOME POINT ALONG THE WAY.
AT SOME POINT, SOMETIMES IT DOES FACILITATE PROCESSING OF THE PLAN TO HAVE THE RELIEF TO KNOW WHAT RELIEF WAS GRANTED.
UH, ANY CONCERN IS MOVING FORWARD.
WELL, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT? DO, ARE YOU OKAY GETTING THE ZONING RELIEF FIRST? UH, I THINK THAT WOULD, OH, I'M SORRY.
[00:20:01]
UH, I AM OKAY.THEN WE'LL JUST, WE'LL JUST HOLD THIS WITHOUT A RECOMMENDATION.
I THINK WE'RE JUST GONNA MOVE IT OFF TO THE NEXT, DO WE HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS HERE? OKAY.
YOU WANNA COME UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF? PLEASE? NAME AND ADDRESS OR WHATEVER COMPANY YOU'RE WITH.
UH, WAYNE MARTIN AT 1 55 AMELIA STREET IN MONTCLAIR, ADJACENT TO ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RAILROAD TRACKS FROM THAT, SO IN FRONT OF PROPERTIES ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RAILROAD TRESTLE, THERE'S A STORM DRAINER THAT IS A TERMINAL STORM DRAIN.
SO IT'S THE ONLY ONE, YOU KNOW, IT'S DR, THERE'S A DROP ON EITHER SIDE OF AMELIA RIGHT THERE, A STORM DRAIN DROP.
THE ONE ON THE, UH, NORTHEASTERN SIDE OF AMELIA IS THE FIRST ONE IN THAT LINE.
SO THAT, IN OTHER WORDS, THAT GOES TO THE WEST SIDE OF AMELIA MORE OR LESS.
AND THEN THAT GOES TO THE CREEK THAT'S RIGHT THERE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RAILROAD DRESSEL.
SO I'M NOT SEEING HOW THAT PROPERTY WOULD BE ABLE TO COMPLY.
AND MAYBE IT ISN'T REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH THE STORM WATER REQUIREMENTS, BUT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
IT'S IN FRONT OF A HOME THAT I OWN, AND IT'S IN FRONT OF TWO OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE THIS EVENING.
AND THAT STORM DRAIN HAS BACKED UP AND CAUSED PROBLEMS IN THE BASEMENTS OF ALL THREE OF OUR RESPECTIVE HOMES.
SO OUR CONCERN IS IF THERE'S NO STORM WATER MANAGEMENT ON SITE, IF THAT PROPERTY DOES NOT HAVE TO COMPLY WITH MS FOUR, UH, PERMIT REQUIREMENTS FOR DEVELOPMENT ON THAT SITE, HOW ARE WE MANAGING THAT ADDITIONAL STORM FLOWS THAT ARE GONNA HIT THAT DRAIN THAT'S IN FRONT OF OUR HOMES? THAT'S, AND AND THAT'S NOT A QUESTION THAT WE EXPECT TO BE ANSWERED TONIGHT, BUT THAT'S A CONCERN THAT, THAT WE HAVE AS RESIDENTS WHO ARE IMPACTED ALREADY BY THAT STORM DRAIN AND WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING DONE.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO THIS, BUT WE JUST NEED TO HAVE THAT MITIGATED.
I'M PERSONALLY NOT OPPOSED, I DON'T WANNA SPEAK ON ANYBODY ELSE'S BEHALF, BUT I NEED TO SEE THAT MITIGATED SO THAT WE'RE NOT CATCHING MORE STORM FLOWS THAT ARE NEGATIVELY IMPACTING OUR BASEMENTS.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE EXTENT OF MONEY THAT'S UNDERSTOOD.
THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S A VALID CONCERN.
DO YOU WANNA, YOU WANNA ADJUST THAT OR? SURE.
SO THE ORDINANCE, UH, OVERALL STORMWATER PICTURE REQUIRES, UM, 50, THE 50 YEAR POST-DEVELOPMENT STORM BE REDUCED DOWN TO THE TWO YEAR PRE-DEVELOPMENT STORM.
THERE'S REDUCTION REQUIREMENTS BUILT INTO THAT.
WE DO HAVE A COMMON, IN OUR LETTER TO ANALYSIS, ANALYZE THE CAPACITY OF THE INLET QUESTION THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
SO THAT'LL BE LOOKED AT AS WELL.
AND THEN OF COURSE THERE'S VOLUME REDUCTION REQUIRED, ALSO TOP OF THE PEAK FLOW.
SO, YEAH, I THINK THE POLICE SHE'S MAKING, THEY'RE LOOKING AT THAT SITUATION AND, YOU KNOW, MAKE A, MAKE A DECISION ON HOW THAT AFFECTS EVERYTHING.
IT'S CATCHING BASICALLY ALL AMELIA RUNNING DOWN TO THAT DRAIN ALREADY, YOU KNOW, SO TO CATCH ADDITIONAL FLOWS IN VEGETATED AREA NOW WOULD JUST ADD TO THAT.
SO, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT QUESTION.
BEFORE YOU SIT DOWN, JEFF, COULD, COULD YOU PUT UP THE, COULD YOU PUT UP THE GRADING PLAN, PLEASE? I THINK THAT'S WHAT HAS I, OKAY.
TO, TO ADDRESS THE COMMENT, UH, THERE IS EXTENSIVE UNDERGROUND STORAGE FOR THIS PROJECT.
AND AS SKETCH ALL SAID, WE HAD TO ATTENUATE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 50 AND THE TWO.
SO YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THAT ALONG THERE IS A 24 INCH PIPE IN A SEEPAGE BED.
WE HAVE PIPES BEHIND THE, THE PROPERTY IN ORDER TO CATCH THE DRAINAGE THAT'S COMING DOWN HERE.
UH, WE HAVE INLETS ALONG HERE TO, TO, UH, CATCH THE STORM DRAINAGE ALONG THE CURB LINE.
SO THERE SHOULD BE AT, AT THIS POINT HERE, CONSIDERABLY LESS COMING OFF THERE ONCE WE GET IN HERE WITH OUR STORM WATER MANAGEMENT THAN WHAT THE EXISTING IS.
SO, EXCUSE ME, SIR, YOU GOTTA COME UP.
[00:25:01]
GOTTA COME UP FRONT AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF.STREET RIGHT DOWN FROM THESE GENTLEMEN HERE.
YOU GOTTA GIVE YOUR NAME AND FIVE 90 MILLION STREET.
YOU KIND OF DOWN HERE, RIGHT? I'M DOWN THERE, YEAH.
UH, CAN THE WATER BE DIVERTED TO BRIDGE STREET AND DOWN INSTEAD OF COMING ALL THE WAY DOWN OUR STREET? CAUSE WE HAVE, WE HAVE ENOUGH ISSUES WITH FLOODING DOWN THERE ON REGULAR BASIS.
BUT LIKE I SAID, I THINK ONCE THIS GOES IN, THERE'S GOING TO BE LESS COMING DOWN THAN THERE IS.
SO CURRENTLY, WELL, ONCE YOU START, ONCE YOU START DIGGING, YOU'RE GONNA BE SPRINGS ALL OVER THE PLACE.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT OF WATER.
WELL, IT PERKS THROUGH, IT PERKS THROUGH TO GROUND NOW AS IT IS, AS I WAS WONDERING IF WE COULD DIVERT IT DOWN TO BRIDGE STREET AND DOWN INSTEAD OF COMING DOWN AMELIA STREET.
NOW, HERE AGAIN, WHEN, WHEN WE GET THIS IN HERE AND GET IT UP AND RUNNING, IF THERE ARE ANY SPRINGS, THIS, THIS IS GOING TO BE THE, THE BOTTOM OF THIS TRENCH HERE IS ACTUALLY BELOW THE, THE LEVEL OF THE STREET.
SO IT'LL, IT'LL PICK UP ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE COMING, UH, UNDERNEATH THE, UH, UNDERNEATH YOUR SERVICE.
IS IT GONNA PICK UP ENOUGH? PARDON? IS IT GONNA PICK UP ENOUGH? WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
IT SHOULD, WELL, WHEN I GET FLOODED AGAIN, I THINK, DIDN'T WE, I, I, DIDN'T I MEET WITH YOU OR ONLY THOUGHT DID I TALK TO SOMEBODY DOWN HERE THAT IT'S A HOUSE RIGHT DOWN THERE.
THEY GOT FLOODED OUT AND WE ALL GOT DOWN.
WELL, I THINK WE GOTTA GIVE OUR, OUR, YOU KNOW, WE GOTTA LOOK AT THE PLAN.
I THINK WE GOTTA LET OUR CONSULTANTS AT THE PLAN AND, AND MAKE, SEE IF IT COVERS THE CONCERNS THAT YOU FOLKS HAVE, WHICH ARE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS.
EVERYTHING THAT COMES DOWN IN MILL STREET, WHICH GOES INTO THE TWO INLETS ACROSS FROM MY NEIGHBORS HERE.
IT GOES ON ONE SIDE, CROSSES OVER THE OTHER SIDE, THEN IT RUNS DOWN A PIPE INTO THE CREEK ADJACENT FROM MY HOUSE.
THAT ISSUE NOT, HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED.
I'M CONSTANTLY DOWN THERE CLEANING IT OUT SO WE HAVE FLOW BECAUSE WHEN WE DON'T HAVE FLOW, WE FLOOD.
SO I'VE BEEN YEARS TRYING TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE WITH TRYING TO PUT AN ELBOW ON THE DIVERT THE WATER SO WHEN THE CREEK COMES DOWN, THE PIPE COMES IN LIKE THIS OR QUICK COMES DOWN AND ALL THE DEBRIS RUNS BACK IN NO ELBOW, IT BLOCKS UP.
HE FLOODS MY NEIGHBOR DOWN THERE FLOODS, YOU KNOW, IT'S A BATTLE DAY IN AND DAY OUT.
NOW YOU'RE GONNA DISCHARGE MORE WATER.
WELL, IT WON'T BE THE, WHAT THE ENGINEER WAS SAYING IS THE STORM WATER ORDINANCE ASSUMES FOR ANY LAND DEVELOPMENT PROJECT THAT THE STORM WATER SITUATION ON SITE IS BETTER AFTER THE PROJECT THAN IT IS BEFORE THE PROJECT.
EVERY TIME IT'S OVER, IT OVER DESIGNS FOR THAT.
SO THERE WILL BE LESS STORM WATER FROM THIS SITE, WHICH IS ALL WE CAN ASK OF AN APPLICANT.
WE CAN'T MAKE 'EM FIX ALL OF, YOU KNOW, MONTCLAIR, THERE WILL BE LESS WATER LEAVING THE SITE THAN THERE IS LEAVING THE SITE.
THAT'S WHAT THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES AND YEAH, WE CAN ONLY DESIGN TO IT.
THE WORLD'S NOT PERFECT IN MAYBE SOMETHING DOESN'T GO EXACTLY RIGHT AND, AND THE DESIGN WAS NOT CORRECT ONCE IN EVERY BLUE MOON.
BUT IT'S DESIGNED FOR THE WAY THAT I SAY IT, BY DEFINITION, IT JUST HASN'T BEEN ENGINEERED YET.
BUT THE BUT THE CONCERN YOU'RE RAISING, EVERYBODY HEARS AND UNDERSTANDS A HUNDRED PERCENT.
WE'RE JUST GETTING POUNDED DOWN THERE.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? ALL RIGHT.
I THINK WE, I THINK WE GET YOUR POINT.
I THINK YOU GOTTA GIVE A CHANCE FOR ALL THE ENGINEERS TO LOOK AT THIS THING AND COME BACK.
PLEASE COME BACK AND WE'LL LOOK, WE'LL BEAT IT UP AGAIN.
IF I COULD MAKE ONE MORE WEIGHT MARK, 1 55 A MILLION.
IF I COULD JUST MAKE A CONCISE POINT, WHAT DIDN'T NECESSARILY COME THROUGH THAT AND I WASN'T AWARE OF THE DEVELOPMENT.
UH, ALL THE STORM WATER SURCHARGE, THERE IT IS.
24 INCH PIPE THAT THAT IS GONNA CAPTURE SOMETHING.
BUT A RAIN EVENT LIKE WE HAD THIS MORNING THAT'S GONNA BE FULL, IT'S COMING OUT TO THE STREET.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT DOESN'T FULFILL THE PERMIT REQUIREMENTS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT.
AND MY, UH, MY, UM, INTEREST IS NOT TO PUNISH A DEVELOPER FOR DEVELOPING A PIECE OF PROPERTY WHO'S MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS.
MY CONCERN IS THAT THAT HAS CONVEYED BELOW THE STREET TO THE STREAM THAT IS NOT COMING DOWN THE STREET AND CAUSING, I I SEE NOW THAT THERE'S SUB GRADE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT ON THAT, I JUST ASK THE TOWNSHIP TO CONSIDER WHETHER THAT'S, I'M NOT, LIKE I SAID, I'M NOT TRYING TO PUNISH THE DEVELOPER, BUT CONSIDER SUBGRADE EXTENSION OF THAT STORM DRAIN SYSTEM UP TO CAPTURE THE OVERFLOW THAT'S COMING OFF OF HERE.
IT'S GONNA GET BOTTLENECKED UNDER THE RAILROAD TRESTLE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE STREET.
[00:30:01]
AT THAT IN PARTICULAR.THAT'S THE END OF MY STATEMENT.
OH, I THINK THAT I, I THINK THAT WE HEAR YOUR CONCERNS AND WE, WE APPRECIATE THEM AND I THINK YOU GOTTA GIVE US A CHANCE.
THIS IS A TENTATIVE WHERE YOU'RE GONNA PASS ON IT AS A TENTATIVE TONIGHT.
WE'RE GONNA MOVE IT BACK TO THE ZONING PEOPLE AND GET THOSE THINGS FIXED FIRST.
AND THIS IS GONNA COME UP A COUPLE MORE TIMES, AT LEAST TWO OR THREE MORE TIMES.
SO GIVE US A CHANCE TO, UH, TO, TO LOOK AT THIS THING AND, AND, YOU KNOW, STAY, STAY INFORMED.
STAY WITH US AND WE WILL BRING YOU BACK.
WE, WE HEAR YOUR CONCERNS AND I, I THINK YOUR ENGINEER FOR THE DEVELOPER, HERE'S YOUR CONCERNS.
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA LOOK AT EVERYTHING AND I CERTAINLY, JEN KNOW SHE, SHE'S GONNA LOOK AT EVERYTHING.
SO, SO I THINK WE'VE GOT GOOD PEOPLE WORKING ON IT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON THIS? UH, ANY OTHER, ANY OTHER THING? ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A COMMENT CONCERN? SO AT THIS POINT, JOE, WE'RE GOING JUST PASS ON THIS ONE.
LET MOVE IT OVER TO THE ZONING BOARD.
UM, AND, UH, YOU'LL BE BACK IN FRONT OF US, I'M SURE, UH, HOPEFULLY NOT A YEAR FROM NOW, LIKE THE LAST TIME
AND THEN WE'LL, WE'LL PICK IT UP AGAIN.
[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION]
SO, OKAY, SO THAT, UM, THAT MOVES, UM, UH, OUR AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING, WHICH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A PRETTY LIGHT AGENDA.JEFF, WHAT DO WE GOT COMING UP HERE? SO THAT AND SOUTHWEST, UM, YEAH, YOU SAID ABOUT WE GOTTEN REVIEWS THE AUTO ZONE.
NO, WE HAVE NOT REVIEWED THAT.
I MEAN, EVEN ON OR ON THE, THE DOCKET, BUT NEVER REALLY HAVE PRESENTED TO I DON'T BELIEVE.
SO, UH, WE'LL, WE'LL WE'RE DEFINITELY GONNA HAVE A MEETING, UH, A SECOND MEETING THIS MONTH, NOVEMBER.
WELL, I DON'T, I THANK YOU FOR THAT, BUT I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S FINE.
I MEAN, IF THERE'S SOMEBODY THAT NEEDS TO COME HERE, WE WE'RE HERE YOU HAVE, YEAH.
SO ANY OTHER COMMENTS FOR THE PUBLIC BEFORE WE, UH, MOVE TO ADJOURN FOR THIS EVENING? ANY COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD HERE? SO I'LL TAKE A MOTION THEN TO ADJOURN AND MEET ON THE OCTOBER 19TH.
UH, DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT.