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WELCOME TO[CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL]
THE, UH, FEBRUARY 2ND, 2022 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.UM, JEFF, WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLEASE TAKE A ROLL CALL OF A PRESIDING PEOPLE? SURE.
WE HAVE CHAIRMAN RATE, UH, VICE CHAIR, BOB HEIST, NICOLA, DANE, BOB GILLINGER OUR NEWEST MEMBER AGA KRUPA DROVE RESIDENTS HERE FROM THE SOLICITOR'S OFFICE.
SHAW IS HERE FROM THE ENGINEER'S OFFICE.
I'M JEFF GRACE, ANTHONY VALENCIA, AND CASEY MOORE WERE EXCUSED BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A LOT OF TRANSPORTATION ISSUES ON THAT DOCKET TONIGHT.
UM, I'LL TAKE THIS MOMENT BEFORE WE GET STARTED TOO.
WELL WELCOME AIJ GROUP UP TO OUR BOARD.
THIS IS HIS FIRST MEETING, SO, UH, YOU KNOW, BE KIND TO HIM TONIGHT AND, UH, GIVE HIM A CHANCE TO FIGURE THIS ALL OUT.
AND, UH, ED DON'T BE TOO HARD ON HIM TONIGHT.
AS LONG AS HE SAYS YES TO EVERYTHING HE HAD WANTS.
UH, SO WELCOME AT J UH, WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS, UM, WITH THAT.
IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS, SUGGESTIONS, ACTUALLY, TOM, I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT.
I HAVE TO HAVE YOU VOTE ON THIS AGENDA.
WE HAD TO ADD A COUPLE OF THINGS AT THE LAST, SEE THAT UP HERE.
SO IF YOU COULD VOTE TO APPROVE THIS AGENDA FIRST.
SO EVERYBODY'S SEEN UP THERE, JEFF'S GOT HIGHLIGHTED.
THE COUPLE ITEMS WERE ADDED IN THE LAST 24 HOURS.
HE'S ASKING US TO APPROVE THAT FOR THE, UH, FOR THE MINUTES FOR THE, FOR THE MEETING TONIGHT.
SO, UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THAT IN A SECOND.
I BOB'S MADE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE, UH, TWO, UH, SOAR RELATED ITEMS. UH, COULD I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND, UH, GILLY A SECOND.
SO WE'VE APPROVED THAT, JEFF, THAT, OKAY.
ARE WE LOUD ENOUGH FOR YOU TO, ARE WE, I THINK EVERYTHING.
UM, SO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL BACKUP TO THE TOP OF THE AGENDA, ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, CONCERNS THAT ARE NON AGENDA ITEMS, NON-AGENDA ITEMS, EDDIE, ANY COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC BEFORE WE GET STARTED WITH THE GENERAL AGENDA.
NOT HEARING OR SEEING ANYTHING WE'LL MOVE ON.
[GENERAL DISCUSSION ITEMS]
GOT APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 5TH, GREG.UM, SO HAS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO READ YOUR PACKET? IS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 5TH? UM, IT WAS BASICALLY, IT WAS, UH, IT WAS A SLOW EVENING.
IF YOU REMEMBER, WE HAD A REORGANIZATION MEETING AND THEN I THINK WE HAD A COUPLE THINGS, BUT IT WAS KIND OF A SLOW EVENING.
SO, UH, BUT ANYHOW, ANY, UH, ANY COMMENTS OR I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 5TH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OR WE GOT A MOTION FROM GILLY TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 5TH.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT RIGHT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM THE PUBLIC OR ANYWHERE ELSE? IF NOT ALL FAVOR APPROVING THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 5TH, SAY AYE.
SO WE'VE APPROVED THE MINUTES.
UM, AND I GUESS WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE, UH, GENERAL DISCUSSIONS.
UH, WHAT IS THE FIRST THING ON THE AGENDA HERE? JEFF, THE, UH, AT MULLEN HAS ASKED TO, UM, HAVE A CLIENT OF HIS SELECT PROPERTIES, DISCUSS SOME, UH, TRANSFER OF DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS.
UH, WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE IN OUR, UM, IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE THAT ALLOWS FOR TRANSFER DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS, WHICH ESSENTIALLY IS YOU TAKE THE HOUSES, YOU CAN BUILD ON ONE PROPERTY AND YOU MOVE THEM TO A DIFFERENT PROPERTY.
SO YOU CAN BUILD MORE AND LEAVE MORE OPEN SPACE.
UM, I'LL LET ED GET INTO THE DETAILS OF WHAT HE NEEDS AND WHAT HE WANTS, BUT FROM THERE.
UH, BASICALLY, UH, I'M HERE TONIGHT WITH THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE, BEN GOLDTHORPE AND OUR PLANNER, JOHN KENNEDY.
UH, WE WANT TO DISCUSS YOUR TDR ORDINANCE AND SUGGEST PERHAPS SOME CHANGES TO IT.
AND I'LL EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY, UH, SECTION SIX, 19.1 OF THE MUNICIPALITIES PLANNING CODE ESTABLISHES THE CONCEPT OF TDRS TRANSFERRABLE DEVELOPMENT RATES AND BASICALLY WHAT IT IS DONE AT THE DINE TO AVOID SPRAWL.
SO IF YOU HAVE 200 ACRE FARMS AND YOU CAN PUT A HUNDRED HOUSES ON ONE FARM AND A HUNDRED THOUSAND ON THE OTHER FARM, YOU MOVE THESE HUNDRED OVER TO THIS ONE AND SAVE 200 ON THIS FARM.
AND NONE ON THIS FARM, SAVE A NICE BIG OPEN SPACE.
THAT'S THE GENERAL CONCEPT OF TDRS.
THEY ACTUALLY ARE AN INTEREST IN REAL ESTATE.
YOU WOULD RECORD THE DEED IN THE COURTHOUSE WHERE THE QUARTER DEEDS OFFICE, UH, YOUR ORDINANCE IS THAT SECTION 180 2 71 0.1.
AND THAT GOES TO 71.7 AND IT DESCRIBES WHAT YOU DO.
UH, THIS WAS DONE A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO BECAUSE ONE SUPERVISOR WANTED TO PROTECT.
WE OWN LOVER'S LANE, THE PROPERTY IN LEVER'S LANE.
AND THERE WAS A SUPERVISOR WHO WANTED
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TO PROTECT THAT BECAUSE IT WAS A LOT OF STEEP SLOPES HAS A LOT OF WOODS AND WAS SAYING, BOY, CAN'T WE DO SOMETHING.AND THE IDEA OF A TDR CAME UP AND ANOTHER SUPERVISOR SAID, OH BOY, I'D LIKE TO SEE THOSE MOVE TO MY PROPERTY.
AND THEN MAYBE SOMETHING WOULD WORK OUT.
BOTTOM LINE IS THE ORDINANCE WAS KIND OF DESIGNED IN A NARROW WAY AND IT REALLY IS NOT USABLE.
YOU'VE HAD THE ORDINANCE ON YOUR BOOK FOR 13 YEARS AND IT HASN'T BEEN USED ONCE THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY IT'S A GOOD CONCEPT AND PEOPLE AREN'T USING IT.
SO WITH THAT, UM, I WANT TO ASK JOHN TO DISCUSS WHAT WE THINK YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER DOING.
AND OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT EXPECTING YOU TO MAKE ANY DECISIONS TONIGHT.
WE JUST WANT TO OPEN THE CONVERSATION AND THEN YOU GUYS, AS PLANNERS CAN PLAN AND SEE WHAT YOU COME UP WITH, IF ANYTHING, UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
MY NAME IS JOHN KENNEDY AND I'M THE PLANNING CONSULTANT WORKING WITH SELECT PROPERTIES.
UH, I WAS ALSO ORIGINALLY INVOLVED, UH, WITH, UH, CHARLIE GUTTENPLAN, UM, WRITING THE ORIGINAL TDR ORDINANCE, UH, WHICH GOES BACK TO 2008.
UM, AND I THINK ED'S GIVEN KIND OF A GOOD BASIC HISTORY OF HOW THE ORDINANCE CAME TO BE, UH, THE LOVER'S LANE PROPERTY, UH, WHICH WE CAN SEE HERE ON THE MAP, UH, THAT CONSISTS OF ABOUT NINE AND A HALF ACRES.
AND IT'S LOCATED, UM, ON 29 AND LOVERS LANE.
IT'S A, UM, IT'S JUST ABOVE THE VILLAGE OF MONTCLAIR.
SO IT'S, UH, AN AREA WHERE THE HILLSIDES GOING DOWN, IT'S GOT A FAIR AMOUNT OF SLOPE ON IT.
UH, IT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL WOODED.
IT, IT DOES HAVE ONE EXISTING HOUSE ON IT AND UNDER THE EXISTING ZONING, AS YOU COULD SEE, WE COULD FIT A 12 LOTS.
UM, AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE STARTED WITH, UH, UNDER THE ORDINANCE.
YOU DO HAVE TO PREPARE A YIELD PLAN.
IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO THE CLUSTER PLAN.
IN THAT SENSE, YOU PREPARE A YIELD PLAN.
SO YOU'RE NOT REALLY GETTING ANY MORE, UM, LOTS OR UNITS YOU'RE, YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO FIX, UM, WHAT THE MAXIMUM DENSITY AND YIELD WOULD BE.
UM, THIS ALSO, IF I RECALL IT CORRESPONDED TO A, UH, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WAS IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OR IN A TRANSPORTATION PLAN, BUT ALSO A REALIGNMENT OF LOVER'S LANE TAKING THE, KIND OF THE MULTIPLE KINKS OUT OF IT AND JUST STRAIGHTENING IT OUT SO THAT IT COMES OUT ACROSS FROM AMANDA LANE ON, ON 29.
UM, WHAT WE WOULD PROPOSE WOULD BE THERE, THERE WOULD BE, UM, SOME KIND OF MINOR TWEAKING REALLY, UH, OF SOME OF THE STANDARDS AND THAT THIS WOULD BE APPLIED TO A MORE APPROPRIATE PROPERTY.
AND THEN THIS PROPERTY, UH, WOULD MOST LIKELY JUST BE LEFT WITH ONE LOT THE EXISTING HOUSE, WHICH WOULD BE, UH, UM, PROBABLY, UH, 30,000 OR 40,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT IN THE CORNER.
THE BALANCE OF IT WOULD ALL BE PRESERVED.
UM, WE HAVE IDENTIFIED A, A PROPERTY, UH, OFF OF MENNONITE ROAD, 4 25 SOUTH MENNONITE ROAD, WHICH IS ABOUT EIGHT AND A HALF ACRES.
AND I CAN, WE, WE SEE THAT ONE, UH, HERE, THIS IS, UM, THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE IS THE LOCATION OF THE MENNONITE ROAD PROPERTY.
IT'S, IT'S NOT REALLY A FLAG LOT.
IT ACTUALLY HAS, UH, A STAFF AREA THAT'S LARGE ENOUGH FOR, FOR LOTS AND ERODE TO BE LOCATED ON IT.
SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT DECEIVING IN TERMS OF THE WAY THAT IT LOOKS, BUT WHAT WE WOULD PROPOSE WOULD BE TO TAKE THIS, UM, NUMBER OF LOTS, WHICH CAN BE DEVELOPED ON THE PROPERTY, COMBINE THEM WITH WHAT WOULD BE TRANSFERRED FROM THE LOVER'S LANE PROPERTY AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT IS A MUCH TIGHTER CLUSTER, WHICH I THINK WE HAVE AN IMAGE OF JEFF.
UH, SO IT WOULD BASICALLY BE, UH, A LOOP ROAD, WHICH YOU CAN SEE COMING IN FROM MENNONITE ROAD.
UH, THE PROPERTY DOES BACK UP TO ROUTE 4 22.
UM, AND WHAT WE WOULD HAVE HERE ON THIS, UH, LAYOUT WOULD BE A TOTAL OF 19 LOTS, UH, SOME FROM THE, FROM THIS PARCEL AND SOME FROM THE LOVER'S LANE PARCEL, UH, AND THEN THE LOVER'S LANE PARCEL WOULD BE DEDICATED, UH, IN OPEN SPACE.
ONE OF THE REASONS WHY, IN MY OPINION, THIS HASN'T REALLY BEEN USED IS ED KIND OF ALLUDED TO THE FACT THAT THIS HAD VERY, VERY NARROW PARAMETERS PLACED ON IT AT THE TIME.
UM, THE, THERE, THERE WERE REGULATIONS BASED ON WHERE THE SENDING LOT HAD TO BE LOCATED AND WHERE THE RECEIVING LOT HAD TO BE LOCATED.
[00:10:01]
THAT SELECT PROPERTIES HAD IS, UM, THEY DO NOT HAVE AN ADEQUATE, UH, RECEIVING ZONE.THE, THE IN TERMS OF ASCENDING ZONE, THIS HAS, THIS WAS PREPARED UNDER THE ORDINANCE.
AND AT THE TIME IT WAS ACCEPTED UNDER THE ORDINANCE AS A, UH, ESTABLISHING THE NUMBER OF LOTS THAT COULD BE POTENTIALLY TRANSFERRED.
UM, THERE ARE SOME OTHER ISSUES THAT ALSO COMPLICATE THE USE OF THIS.
UH, OBVIOUSLY FOR INSTANCE, IN, IN ED'S EXAMPLE OF TWO, 100 ACRE PARCELS, AND YOU MOVE ALL THE LOTS OVER TO THE ONE, THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THAT IS IF YOU CHANGE SOME OF THE STANDARDS ON THE RECEIVING ZONE.
SO FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU HAD A ONE ACRE MINIMUM, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO CHANGE THAT TO BE A 20,000 SQUARE FEET OR A 15,000 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM, BECAUSE YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO PHYSICALLY FIT THE ADDITIONAL LOTS ON, UH, ALSO IF THERE IS AN OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENT, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO REDUCE THE OPEN SPACE.
SO YOU DO HAVE TO MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS IN THE RECEIVING AREA SO THAT YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WHAT IT IS YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.
AND THEN THAT ACCOMPLISHES THE BIGGER GOAL OF TRYING TO PRESERVE A LARGER PIECE OF OPEN SPACE.
SO, UM, ONE OF THE AREAS WHERE, UH, WE DID RUN INTO PROBLEMS AND CONTINUE TO RUN INTO PROBLEMS WOULD BE, UH, ITEMS SUCH AS THE, UM, THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE, THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE, UH, THE MINIMUM WIDTH, UH, THESE, THIS PLAN THAT YOU SEE HERE, UH, THESE HAVE MINIMUM THIS, A MINIMUM LOT SIZE OF 8,000 SQUARE FEET.
UH, THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE IS ACTUALLY ABOUT 15,000 SQUARE FEET AND, UH, THE MINIMUM WIDTH IS 70 FEET WIDE.
UM, SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE REASONABLE SIZE LOTS.
UM, THERE ARE MANY AREAS THROUGHOUT THE DELAWARE VALLEY WHERE WE, UH, USE THIS LOT SIZES ARE SMALLER.
SO, UH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE VERY MARKETABLE, BUT, UH, THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF ADJUSTMENTS THAT WE NEED, UH, TO BE ABLE TO MAKE, UH, IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY USE THE TDR ORDINANCE.
UM, TDR ORDINANCES ARE, THERE'S KIND OF A FEW OF THEM THROUGHOUT THE DELAWARE VALLEY.
UM, THEY HAVE NOT BEEN USED A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT ONLY BECAUSE, UH, IT'S, IT'S OFTEN DIFFICULT TO, UH, ESTABLISH VALUE, I THINK IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST ISSUE.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL PLANNING SIDE.
USUALLY PEOPLE WHO OWN LAND HAVE A HARD TIME ESTABLISHING VALUE FOR THE, FOR THE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS.
AND SO THAT'S ONE THING THAT KIND OF HOLDS THEM UP.
UH, BUT THEY HAVE BEEN USED FOR INSTANCE, IN WARRINGTON TOWNSHIP, BOTH IN RESIDENTIAL, UH, AND ACTUALLY IN WARRINGTON.
THEY'VE ALSO BEEN USED IN, UM, COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS TO, UH, UP AND DOWN, UH, SIX 11.
UH, THEY, UH, HAVE ALSO BEEN USED OUT IN CHESTER COUNTY, UH, IN A FEW LOCATIONS THEY'RE RELATIVELY NEW IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY.
UH, THE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION HAS, UH, TALKED ABOUT THEM FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
UH, IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO A TOWNSHIP WANTING TO KIND OF TACKLE THE SUBJECT AND, UM, EXAMINE WHAT IT REALLY TAKES TO BE ABLE TO USE THEM SUCCESSFULLY AND REALLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.
THIS IS A, UH, I THINK AN UNUSUAL CASE BECAUSE THIS ALREADY EXISTS IN YOUR ORDINANCE.
WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO SELL YOU ON THE CONCEPT OF IT.
IT'S THERE THERE'S A PLAN THAT'S BEEN, UH, DEEMED A, AN ACCEPTABLE, UH, SENDING PLAN.
AND WE WOULD JUST LIKE TO BE ABLE TO, UM, IMPLEMENT IT IN A PLACE WHERE IT MAKES SENSE.
SO WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO DO, IF, IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, WAS THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD CAUSE AND WOULD LIKE TO, UH, PURSUE IT, UH, WE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE A, UH, A TEXT AMENDMENT TO THE TDR SECTION.
UH, SO WE WOULDN'T REALLY BE ADDING ANYTHING.
WE WOULD JUST BE CHANGING SOME OF THE STANDARDS THAT ARE ALREADY EXISTING IN THE, UH, THE TDR SECTION OF THE ORDINANCE.
AND I CAN ALSO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE, UH, SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THESE PROPERTIES, IF YOU LIKE, OR JUST THE ORDINANCE IN GENERAL.
T W WHAT ARE YOU ASKING FOR YOU TO LOOK AT THE TAKE LOVERS LANE PROJECT AND MOVE IT THIS PROJECT AND LEAVE LOVERS LANE ALONE? IS THAT THE BOTTOM LINE BE WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET? THAT IS CORRECT.
WE WOULD LIKE TO TRANSFER THE DEVELOPMENT FROM LOVERS LANE, THE POTENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND TRANSFER TO THE MENNONITE, UH, ROAD SITE.
AND, UM, IN ORDER TO DO THAT, IT WOULD TAKE A TEXT AMENDMENT.
THEN WHAT HAPPENED IS WOODS WITH ONE HOUSE ON, WELL, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU.
SO WHAT HAPPENS TO LOVER'S LANE FOR THE NEXT GUY THAT COMES ALONG AND SAYS, OKAY, I WANT TO DEVELOP
[00:15:01]
LOVER'S LANE., THAT'S WHAT THE TDRS ARE TAKING THEM AND SOLD THEM.
AND CONSEQUENTLY, YOU CAN NO LONGER DEVELOP OVERLAY.
IT'S OPEN SPACE AND, YOU KNOW, RIGHT.
AND THAT'S GOOD FOR THE, FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
WHY, WHY IS THIS GOOD FOR THE TANTRUM? BASICALLY, YOU BET FOR YOU TO DECIDE THE ARGUMENT IS BECAUSE IT PREVENTS SPRAWL RATHER THAN TAKING EVERY ACRE OF THE TOWNSHIP OR PUTTING A HOUSE ON IT.
WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE TAKING THE JUNCTURE, THE TOWNSHIP, IF YOU CAN COME OPEN FOR ALL THE GOOD BENEFITS OF OPEN SPACE, AND THEN MORE ON THAT GROUNDWATER RECHARGE, ALL THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED WHEN THE PROPERTIES THEY CAN, AS OPPOSED TO BEING DEVELOPED WITH DRIVEWAYS AND ROADS AND SWIMMING POOLS AND EVERYTHING ELSE, BASICALLY.
TH THE OTHER THING THAT IT DOES ALLOW YOU TO DO IS, UM, IT ALLOWS YOU TO TAKE THAT DEVELOPMENT AND S AND LOCATED IN A, IN AN AREA OF THE TOWNSHIP THAT MIGHT MAKE MORE SENSE FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER.
IT MIGHT BE ADJACENT LAND USES.
IT MIGHT BE LOCATION OF UTILITIES.
UH, IT MIGHT BE ONE PARCEL IS WOODED.
THE OTHER PARCEL IS NOT WOODED, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
BUT AGAIN, YOU'RE ASKING US FOR ON THE MIDNIGHT PROJECT THEN TO, TO CHANGE SOME OF THE RULES SO THAT YOU CAN GET THESE LOTS.
SO, SO THE SPRAWL IS STILL, IS STILL THERE.
YOU'RE JUST ASKING US TO NOW MOVE IT TO ONE PLACE AND MAKE IT SMALLER SO THAT YOU CAN GET YOUR 19 LOTS IN OR WHATEVER YOU NEED TO MAKE THAT PROFITABLE FOR.
AND AGAIN, I'M ASKING WHAT, WHAT GOOD IS ALL THIS, IF YOU WANT JUST KEPT AT THE, TO THE SAME W BASED ON WHAT THE, WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE TODAY, WHAT GOOD IS THIS FOR THE TOWNSHIP? YOU WOULD HAVE THE SIZE TWO LOCKS THAT YOU HAVE 10 ACRES DEVELOPED AND 10 ACRES DEVELOPED.
WHEREAS WITH THE PDR, YOU HAVE 10 ACRES, UNDEVELOPED, AND 10 ACRES DEVELOPED.
NOW DEVELOPED, ORDINARILY YOU STILL HAVE THE ROAD, ROADS ARE PRETTY MUCH GOING TO BE THE SAME.
UH, SO YOU HAVE A LESS IMPACT ON THE LAND FROM THE DEVELOPMENT.
THEN YOU WOULD, IF YOU'VE DEVELOPED BOTH THESE, I MAY AGREE WITH THAT.
AND IF THEY WORK, BUT I MEAN, THESE TWO PIECES OR PROPERTY ARE PRETTY FAR APART, RIGHT? I MEAN, SO THEY'RE NOT LIKE, IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S GOING TO PUT ANY ADDED OR ON, ON 29 VERSUS MEN.
AND I WROTE, I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT CLOSE ENOUGH TOGETHER.
I DON'T SEE WHERE THAT MAKES A BIG, A BIG DIFFERENCE.
THE REASON THAT WITH GDPR IS FOR EXAMPLE, AND THAT'S OUR CASE HERE, BUT WITH THE TDR CONCEPT, MAYBE THE LEVERAGE LANE PIECE DOESN'T HAVE SEWER AND WATER, AND THE OTHER PIECE DOES.
SO WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU'RE TAKING HOUSES WHERE WOULD BE PUTTING IN GROUNDS OUT IN A WELLS AND MOVING INTO AN AREA.
SO THE TOWNSHIP GETS A DEFINITE BENEFIT FROM THAT.
AND, BUT I, I, WHEN I LOOK AT IT JUST FROM 50,000 IN SEARING IT FOR THE FIRST TIME, I'M NOT SURE I SEE ANY BENEFIT TO THE TOWNSHIP AT ALL.
I MEAN, I DON'T SEE, NOW WE CAN GET INTO THE WEEDS.
IT MAY BE A BILL WHEN THOSE GUYS WERE HERE, THEY WOULD SAY, YEAH, HEY, THAT'S A GOOD PLAN BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE TO BUILD SEPTICS AND ALL THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT I'LL LEAVE THAT UP TO THE CONSULTANTS.
BUT, UH, AT THIS POINT, DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS, BUT I, I DON'T SEE A LOT OF BENEFIT TO RETENTION.
SO KNOWING WHERE THE LOVER'S LANE LOT, WHERE THE TRAFFIC WOULD COME OUT, IT WOULD BE ON TO LOVER'S LANE, AND THEN IT WOULD DUMP OUT ONTO 29.
IT WOULD BE A, UM, IT WOULD PICK UP, IT WOULD REALIGN LOVER'S LANE AT THE BACK OF THE PARCEL AND RIGHT ACROSS FROM AMANDA.
WELL, I THINK THAT THE WAY THAT PEOPLE DRIVE DOWN 29, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST LET YOUR CAR GO AND ROLL DOWN THAT HILL AND PEOPLE GO FLYING THROUGH THERE.
SO ADDING MORE TRAFFIC COMING IN AND OUT ONTO 29 SEEMS LIKE IT COULD BE MORE DANGEROUS THAN RELOCATING IT TO A QUIETER PART OF THE TOWNSHIP WHERE THE TRAFFIC'S GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT MORE APPROPRIATE.
UM, THIS I, BUT I WOULD POINT OUT THAT, UH, THE LOVER'S LANE, UH, CURRENTLY DOES COME OUT FURTHER UP THE HILL.
UM, AND THAT'S 30 BED INTERSECTION.
UH, THOSE OF YOU WHO KNOW IT, IT, IT REALLY, UH, I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THIS, UH, REALIGNMENT OF THE ROAD WAS, WAS CONTEMPLATED AT TIME, WHICH WE ACTUALLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
THEY, UH, WE WERE JUST TOLD AT THE TIME, IF, IF YOU WERE GOING TO DO A DEVELOPMENT ON LOVERS LANE, YOU GOT TO REALIGN THE ROAD IN THIS FASHION.
AND SO WE WERE TOLD TO USE THAT IN OUR YIELD PLAN, WE GET, IF WE DID THE TTRS AND LEVERAGE THEIR MISTAKE IS TODAY WITH ONE HOUSE, DID WE NOT A FEW YEARS AGO, JEFF FRESHMEN, DIDN'T WE APPROVE AT LEAST A PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT ON LOVER'S LANE BEFORE.
[00:20:01]
UM, NO, IT HASN'T BEEN IN, UM, IN, IN MY, I MEAN, I WAS HELPING WRITE THE ORDINANCE AT THE TIME, BUT NOTHING WOULD LOVER'S LANE HAS COME IN AND THERE WAS A SPARES, LEAN DEVELOPMENT THAT CAME IN FOR SIX TOWNHOUSES.AND YOU MAY REMEMBER FOR 25 MINUTE NIGHT ROAD, ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO, THREE YEARS AGO, NOW THERE WAS A MINOR SUBDIVISION.
A GENTLEMAN CAME IN AND SUBDIVIDED OFF THE HOUSE IN FRONT.
RIGHT? THE IDEA AT THE TIME WAS SUBDIVIDING OFF THE HOUSE AT THE FRONT TO FINANCE, DOING THE DEVELOPMENT AND BACK.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THAT PROPERTY, WHERE THERE'S A HOUSE THAT WAS A MINOR SUBDIVISION AT ONE POINT, THAT WAS PART OF THE WHOLE PARCEL.
UM, YOU CAN SEE THE HOUSE NOW WHERE THEY'VE REHABBED IT THEY'VE REFINISHED THE OUTSIDE OF IT, THAT AND THE HOUSE NEXT TO IT.
UM, THIS IS ALWAYS SORT OF BEEN QUEUED UP TO BE SUBDIVIDED, NOT TO, YOU KNOW, NOT TO THIS LEVEL AT THIS POINT.
I MEAN, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS COME IN FOR THIS SITE.
JOHN, YOU HAD INDICATED THAT THE CURRENT ORDINANCE WAS, OR BOTH OF YOU SAID, WAS DESIGNED AROUND A PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE WITH TWO, TWO INDIVIDUAL PROPERTIES THAT WERE IN MIND WHEN IT WAS CREATED.
WOULD THE REVISIONS WORK FOR SENDING AND RECEIVING ANYWHERE OTHER THAN HERE AS REVISED, OR IS THIS ALSO BEING DESIGNED FOR THIS SPECIFIC LOCATION? NO, THIS, THIS WOULD WORK IN A NUMBER OF LOCATIONS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
THIS, THIS WOULD MAKE IT ON BOTH ENDS.
THEY'RE SENDING AND RECEIVING COULD WORK ALL SEPARATE TRANSACTION COULD HAPPEN UNDER THE REVISED ORDINANCE OTHER THAN THIS ONE.
UH, NO, IN THIS CASE, THE SENDING, THE SENDING PARCEL WAS ALREADY, UH, IN, IN PLAY AND IT HAS GONE THROUGH THE PROCEDURE AND WAS APPROVED.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHY, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS A MATCHING RECEIVING PARCEL, BUT THIS WOULD GENERALLY MAKE THE, THE TDR ORDERS MUCH MORE USER-FRIENDLY.
AND IS THIS, IS THERE A CONTINGENT AGREEMENT NOW WHERE IF THE ORDINANCE HAS CHANGED THEIR MISSILE PROCEED OR YOU'RE JUST DOING THE ORDINANCE CHANGE FIRST, UH, A CONTINGENT AGREEMENT.
SO IF THE CHANGES WERE MADE AND WOULD PROCEED MISS OUT ON IT AND DEVELOP A PLAN, BUT I THINK WHAT JOHN'S SAYING IS THIS IS NOT UNLIKE THE LAST ORDINANCE THAT REALLY, YOU JUST CAN'T MOVE.
OTHER THAN THESE TWO PIECES OF GROUND.
THIS WILL ALLOW A CONCEPT TO BE USED MULTIPLE PIECES OF GROUND, THE TOWNSHIP, AND THE TOWNSHIP GETS IT, DECIDE WHICH PIECES THEY ARE IN THE SENSE THAT YOU CREATE RECEIVING ZONES.
AND YOU SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, CDRS COULD MOVE TO THIS AREA FROM THIS AREA.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, OR FROM A PLANNING STANDPOINT, JUST TO SORT OF LET YOU KNOW WHERE I'M AT WITH THIS AS THE, AS THE PLANNING DIRECTOR.
UM, I'M NOT SO SURE ABOUT THE LOT AREA.
IT SEEMS LIKE AN AWFULLY SMALL LOT AREA FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S DROPPING DOWN AND ONE OF THE SMALLEST LOT AREAS IN THE TOWNSHIP, AND THERE'S A BONUS ON TOP OF THAT, THERE'S A 20% BONUS.
SO THEY'RE GETTING THE SMALLEST LOT AREA PLUS A BONUS.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A BIT MUCH, AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING WE SORT OF HAVE TO LOOK AT AND NOT JUST HOW IT LOOKS FOR THIS PROPERTY, BUT FOR WHAT OTHER PROPERTIES IT MAY APPLY TO AS ED JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, THE TOWNSHIP'S GOING TO HAVE TO IDENTIFY SENDING AND RECEIVING PROPERTIES.
AND THAT'S A FAIRLY EXTENSIVE PROCESS FOR US.
UH, YOU KNOW, IT, THERE HAS TO BE SOME MECHANISM IN THE ORDINANCE CONTROL THAT IF I'M NOT HERE, IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS NOT THERE, HOW THIS HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, DOWN THE ROAD AND IN THE FUTURE.
SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS COMFORTABLE MOVING FORWARD WITH IT, THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT I WILL BE TALKING TO JOHN ABOUT AND ED ABOUT, AND, AND SORT OF WORKING THROUGH TO SEE IF WE CAN COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF, IS IT, I JUST WANT TO GET SOME UNDERSTANDING ON IT, YOUR ORIGINAL TDR WAS IT, WE WEREN'T LOOKING FOR RELIEF ON LOT SIZES, ET CETERA.
NO, THERE WAS RELIEF ON LOT SIZES, BECAUSE AS I SAID, YOU, YOU HAVE TO DO THAT.
OTHERWISE YOU CAN'T FIT EVERYTHING IN.
SO THERE WAS RELIEF ON, ON LOT SIZES, LOT WIDTH, UM, OPEN SPACE AND THINGS SUCH AS THAT, IT'S JUST, IT WAS EXTREMELY NARROWLY DEFINED.
SO, UH, I, IF I RECALL, I THINK I WENT FROM A REQUIREMENT OF A HUNDRED FEET TO JUST WIDE TO 90 FEET.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S A 10 FOOT, RIGHT? IT'S NOT MUCH WELL, FOR INSTANCE, IN OPEN SPACE, UM, WHEN YOU'RE GIVEN RELIEF FOR THAT, THIS COMMUNITY GETS AFFECTED BY NOT HAVING THAT OPEN DURING THIS DEVELOPMENT.
[00:25:01]
IN, IN THIS CASE, THAT WOULD BE TRUE.UH THAT'S THAT'S I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD HAVE TO, UH, BE LOOKED AT IF YOU WANTED TO OPEN THE, THE ORDINANCE BACK UP WAS, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THERE WERE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU WANTED TO CHANGE ABOUT THE ORDINANCE.
WELL, THAT'S, I GUESS WHAT I WAS ASKING WAS THE IMPACT TO THIS PARTICULAR COMMUNITY IS THEY'RE GOING TO GET MORE DEVELOPMENT WITHOUT WHAT WE USUALLY PORTRAYED REQUIRE FOR OPEN SPACE, RIGHT? UM, OBVIOUSLY THE LOVER'S LANE PROPERTY IS VERY ISOLATED.
I WOULD HAVE A LITTLE CONCERN WITH THAT.
AND IF WE'RE OPENING IT UP TO FUTURE USE OF THE TTRS AND DOING THIS, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM.
YOU'RE SAYING THE GROUP THAT FEELS THE PAIN, ISN'T THE SAME GROUP THAT FEELS THE GATE, RIGHT? UM, THIS PARTICULAR PLAN, MAYBE OTHER PLANS THAT WOULD, IT WOULD BE THAT WAY, BUT THIS PARTICULAR ONE, LIKE I SAY, THEY'RE SO FAR APART, I'M NOT SURE THAT THERE'S ANY, ANY TRADE-OFF FOR THESE TWO COMMUNITIES AT ALL.
BUT MY, MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS WE'RE REALLY CONDENSING THIS.
AND THE IMPACT ON THIS COMMUNITY IS GREATER BECAUSE OF THE LOT SIZES, ET CETERA.
AND, UH, THERE'S NO PRESERVATION OF OPEN SPACE.
THEY'RE ACTUALLY LOSING OPEN SPACE, THIS PARTICULAR NEIGHBOR.
SO I WOULD HAVE A CONCERN AGAIN, I DON'T, I, YOU GUYS CAN HELP ME OUT, BUT IF WE START CHANGING LANGUAGE IN THE TDR AND WE GO FORWARD, WE'RE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH THIS A LOT MORE DOWN THE LINE.
I HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEM WITH, WITH SURROGATE CHANGE LANGUAGE TO, UH, WHEN I DON'T SEE A LOT OF BENEFIT AT THIS POINT.
AND, UM, SO WHAT WOULD BE THAT PLAN, JOE? WHAT WOULD WE HAVE TO DO HERE? WOULD WE, WOULD WE APPROVE? WHAT, WHAT ARE WE ASKING TO DO? WELL, I THINK THEY'RE IN FRONT OF, IN FRONT OF YOU CONCEPTUALLY.
THERE'S NO PENDING PLAN THERE.
THEY'RE INITIATING A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE AMENDING, THE TDR GAUGING YOUR LEVEL OF INTEREST IN, I MEAN, IT DOESN'T STOP THEM FROM COMING BACK WITH SOMETHING ELSE, BUT I GUESS YOUR, YOUR INPUT WOULD HELP THEM KNOW WHICH WAY THEY WANT TO TAKE IT.
OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT YOU JUST SAID THAT IF WE WOULD SAY YES TO THE TDR, YOU, YOU WOULD HAVE, YOU HAVE A PLAN TO MOVE FORWARD.
OH, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SHOWING HERE.
BUT IF YOU WERE GUYS WERE TO GUESS MY OWN WELLBEING HERE, BUT IF YOU WERE TO UPGRADE YOUR TV OR MAYBE LIKE SOME THINGS THAT COULD SAY, WELL, YOU GOT OUT A PIECE THAT'S WITHIN A MILE OF THE OTHER ROAD.
SO IT'S FAR FROM ANOTHER ONE WHERE YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF OPEN SPACE.
AND AT LEAST YOU HAVE TO USE SUBORDINATES AND WE CAN TAKE OUR LOVER'S LANE AND GO FIND SOMETHING SOMEWHERE IN THAT CHIP THAT WHEN WE, THIS WAS OUR, I THINK THIS IS WHAT WE THOUGHT, BUT RATHER THAN JUST PULLING THAT OUT OF THE TRASH, I THINK WE'RE LIKELY TO AT LEAST CONSERVE, UH, UPDATING THE WORDS.
I DON'T LIKE THIS PLAN THAT THEY DON'T WANT, THIS CONCEPT PUTS UP, SO IT DOESN'T WORK, BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD CONSIDER DRESSING THE, OKAY, SO, SO, UH, JEFF, BACK TO YOU THEN IF WE, IF WE, AS A BOARD SAY, OKAY, WE WANT TO LOOK AT THIS.
WHAT'S THE PROCESS FOR LOOKING AT THESE TVRS AND CHANGING LINE.
THEY'VE SET UP AN ESCROW ACCOUNT WITH THE TOWNSHIP.
SO WE PROBABLY HAVE A MEETING.
JOE HEARD THEM, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE STAFF WOULD HAVE A MEETING.
WE TALK ABOUT WHERE THEY THINK THEY ARE.
WE TALK ABOUT OUR RE YOU KNOW, HOW WE FEEL ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE, WHAT YOUR REACTION TO IT WAS, WHAT WE PERSONALLY THINK.
AND THEN EITHER THEY'D COME UP WITH A DRAFT OR WE'D COME UP WITH A DRAFT, WE'D WORK THAT OUT.
AND EVENTUALLY WE GET TO A DRAFT THAT THEY'D EITHER WANT TO BRING BACK TO THE TENT, TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, OR THAT WE WOULD TRY TO MAKE A FORMAL APPLICATION FOR.
I MEAN, IF WE COULDN'T COME TO A COMPROMISE THOUGH, I MEAN, IT CERTAINLY, IT ALWAYS RESTS WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO APPROVE THAT, YOU KNOW, I, I'M GOING TO WRITE AN ORDINANCE, JOE AND I ARE GOING TO WRITE AN ORDINANCE THAT, THAT MEETS THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS AND BEST REPRESENTS THE TOWNSHIP.
BUT IF YOU DON'T THINK THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, ANY TRANSFER OF DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS REPRESENTS THE BEST INTEREST OF THE TOWNSHIP.
YOU DON'T RECOMMEND THE BOARD APPROVING THAT ORDINANCE.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S SORT OF, IT'S JUST AN EXERCISE UP TO A POINT.
WE WORK THROUGH WHAT WE CAN TO GET YOU SOMETHING, TO READ AND REACT TO.
AND THEN YOU MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT AND SAY, YES OR NO, OR WE LIKE IT.
WE DON'T LIKE THIS PART OF IT.
SAME THING WITH THE OTHER ORDINANCE CHANGES WE'VE DONE OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
AND I'LL LET YOU KNOW THAT THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS STRUCTURED NOW IS A LOT OF THE PROPERTIES THAT THE PROPERTIES IDENTIFY FOR SENDING PROPERTIES WERE IDENTIFIED IN AN OPEN SPACE PLAN FROM 2006 AND 2008.
SO THEY WERE PROPERTIES IDENTIFIED BY THE OPEN SPACE COMMITTEE AT THE TIME THAT WERE LOOKING TO BE PRESERVED.
[00:30:02]
UM, DOESN'T MEAN, IT ESSENTIALLY MEANS THAT IT'S PROPERTIES, THE TOWNSHIP DIDN'T OWN, BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO PRESERVE THE LOVER'S LANE PIECE IS ADJACENT TO A LOT OF OTHER MUNICIPAL COUNTY.AND I THINK STATE OPEN SPACE IN THAT AREA.
AND IT WOULD MAKE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT WOULD MAKE A NICE BLOCK OF OPEN SPACE AND PRESERVE SOME STEEP SLOPES AND SOME LARGER, IT WOULD ADD TO A LARGER AREA PIECES LIKE THIS ONE, THEY DON'T ADD TO THE LARGER AREA OF OPEN SPACE.
I SEE YOUR POINT PERFECTLY WITH, THERE'S NO OPEN SPACE ON THIS PARCEL THAT THEY'RE RECOMMENDING IT KIND OF DEFEATS ITS OWN PURPOSE BECAUSE IT'S NOT ATTACHED.
I'M JUST THINKING BACK TO THE RATIONALE THAT WE USED IN 2008 TO ADOPT THAT ORDINANCE AND, AND WHAT ARE SORT OF OUR WORKING ORDERS WERE THEN, UM, I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT PARCEL WOULD HAVE TRANSFERRED TO, BUT I THINK THAT'S NOT REALLY THE POINT AT THIS POINT.
SO JEFF, YOU KNOW, WE'VE JUST HEARD ABOUT THIS TONIGHT.
THERE'S, YOU KNOW, SO WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR FEELING ON THIS AS, AS PLENTY COMMISSIONER? WHAT IS YOUR FEELING THAT, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT CHANGING SOME OF THESE TDRS, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK IS UPDATE? WE NEED TO DO THAT THIS ORDINANCE HAS COME BACK TO ME, I WOULD SAY EVERY THREE YEARS OR SO, IT'S SORT OF A TRI-ANNUAL EVENT.
IF THAT'S EVEN A WORD WHERE IT COMES BACK AND SOME OF THOSE DO I WANT TO USE THIS? AND MY FIRST STATEMENT IS, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO AMEND THE ORDINANCE.
I KNEW THAT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO AMEND THE ORDINANCE ALMOST FROM THE TIME IT WAS ADOPTED.
IT'S JUST, IT WAS SORT OF, LET'S GET SOMETHING ON THE BOOKS AND START THE PROCESS.
ONCE THAT, ONCE WE GOT SOMETHING ON THE BOOKS, THAT PROCESS SORT OF FELL APART.
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS IT'S NEVER BEEN IN USE, BUT IT'S ALSO, THERE'S NEVER, WE'VE NEVER HAD PARCELS TO ACTUALLY APPLY IT TO THAT ARE AT THE POINT TO WHERE THEY WANT TO USE IT.
SO WE SORT OF, I ALWAYS KNEW WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO AMEND IT IN SOME, IN SOME FASHION.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS NECESSARILY IT'S UP TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO DECIDE IF THIS IS WHERE THEY WANT TO, IF THIS IS WHEN AND WHERE THEY WANT TO DO IT, AND THAT'S COMPLETELY YOUR CALL, I WILL WORK AT YOUR DIRECTION.
BUT KNOWING THE ORDINANCE, I KNEW WE WOULD ALWAYS HAVE TO CHANGE IT BASED ON THE LANGUAGE WE WROTE IN 2008.
AND THAT'S PROBABLY WHY AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, THIS IS NOT NEW, THIS WHOLE CONCEPT, BUT VERY FEW PEOPLE HAVE USED IT.
IT'S GOTTA BE THE MECHANISM AND THE MECHANICS THAT PEOPLE JUST, OR IT COULD BE THE PRICE TOO.
I MEAN, HOW DO YOU NEGOTIATE THAT? SORRY.
WELL, UM, I HAD A NUMBER OF CLIENTS OVER THERE, LIKE, UH, 15 TRACKS THAT THEY COULD HAVE PUT LIKE SIX OUNCES ON AND THEY USE THE GDR ORDINANCE AND SOLD YOUR PRODUCT TO YOURS, TO A DEVELOPER DOWN THE ROAD.
I THINK JEFF CLEARLY STATED THAT FOR THE SENDING PORTION, BECAUSE THERE ARE AREAS LIKE CAN SEE, NOT DEVELOP EITHER BECAUSE OF STEEP SLOPES OR WORLDS OR WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS EVEN HERE.
YOU DON'T SEEM TO LIKE THAT, BUT 10 IS, I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT COMING UP WITH SOME MACHINING AREAS FOR THE SURGEONS OR, AND LOOKING FROM A MOVING FORWARD IN TERMS OF PLANNING AND THE TOWNSHIP.
WE'RE GOING TO GET A LOT MORE OF THESE SMALL PARCELS, THE 10 TO 15 ACRE PARCELS.
THEN WE'RE GOING TO GET ANYTHING LARGE.
I MEAN, WE KNOW THE LARGE PARCELS THAT ARE LEFT IN THE TOWNSHIP.
WE HATE TO SAY THOSE WORDS IN PUBLIC BECAUSE THEY SCARE PEOPLE.
YOU KNOW, WE, WE KNOW WHAT MAY HAPPEN WITH THOSE, AND WE KNOW THAT HOW THOSE ARE GOING TO WORK.
WE'RE VERY WELL EXPERIENCED IN ALL OF THAT STUFF WHERE WE'RE GOING TO RUN INTO A CHALLENGE OVER THE NEXT 10, 15 YEARS IS A LOT OF THE SMALL PARCELS THAT GO TO DEVELOP WHETHER IT'S THE SPARES LANE THAT YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, OR THIS PIECE, YOU KNOW, I CAN SHOW YOU A HALF A DOZEN OTHERS THAT ARE JUST THEY'RE LITTLE PIECES THAT ARE HARD TO DEVELOP THERE'S ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS WHEN YOU DO GO TO DEVELOP THEM.
AND HOW DOES THAT WORK? I MEAN, IS IT BETTER TO HAVE, AND THIS IS WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION GETS TO DECIDE.
IS IT BETTER TO HAVE, WELL, ONE ACRE PARCELS ON THE LOTS AND HAVE LESS HOUSES ON EACH OF THESE SMALL LOTS OR MORE HOUSES ON S ON SOME LOTS AND KEEP OPEN SPACE ON OTHER LOTS.
SO THAT'S SORT OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE THOUGHT PROCESS MOVING FORWARD.
WELL, ISN'T IT ALSO SIMILAR IN A WAY ONLY, YOU'RE NOT SWAPPING WITH CLUSTER ELEPHANT.
YOU'RE NOT SWAPPING, BUT IT'S STILL TAKING AND SQUEEZING THE HOMES INTO A SMALLER AREA BASICALLY.
WELL, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? SO PERSONALLY MYSELF, I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT MORE.
I DON'T THINK WE'RE READY TO MAKE ANY KIND OF DECISION ON THIS OR ANY KIND OF RECOMMENDATION OR ANYTHING.
UM, DO YOU WANT US TO DO WELL? DO YOU WANT THE APPLICANT TO
[00:35:01]
REFINE AND GIVE YOU SOME CLEAR LANGUAGE ON WHAT MAY CHANGE IN THE ORDINANCE AND WHAT IT MEANS TO THE REST OF THE TOWNSHIP? I MEAN, DO YOU THINK THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE MOVING FORWARD OR DO YOU THINK IT'S BEST JUST TO SORT OF TAKE A BREATHER AND COME BACK TO IT IN A MONTH AND THEN SEE HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT? WELL, PERSONALLY, MYSELF, I WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT, CAUSE I'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT, I'D LIKE TO JUST DO MORE RESEARCH ON MY CELL PHONE THIS AND UNDERSTAND IT A LITTLE BIT BETTER BEFORE, YOU KNOW, BEFORE YOU GUYS GO START DOING A LOT OF WORK AND GETTING ALL EXCITED ABOUT SOME LANGUAGE, THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION ON IT.I JUST DON'T THINK WE'RE READY TO, UH, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS HIT US TONIGHT.
I MEAN, WE'RE NOT REALLY THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE UP ON THIS BEFORE, SO, UH, BUT WHAT, IS THERE A BEST THING YOU WANT TO TABLE THIS FOR NOW? OR DO YOU WANT, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO FIND OUT IN THE TOWNSHIPS THAT HAVE IT IN USE AND ACTIVELY USE IT, UM, HOW IT'S BEEN RECEIVED BY THE TOWNSHIP PEOPLE IN GENERAL.
I, I DON'T, I'M DEFINITELY NOT FOR AN ORDINANCE PUT FORTH THAT NOBODY CAN USE.
UM, AND I WOULD LIKE TO AT LEAST GET MORE FACTS ON IT AND AT LEAST FIND OUT A HISTORY OF WHERE IT'S BEEN USED AND THE IMPACT IT'S HAD ON THE COMMUNITY.
AND NO, THANKS TO YOUR EDITOR OR MR. CANDY, BUT YOU KNOW, THIS FIRST YOU'RE HITTING THIS WITH THIS FIRST AND IT'S PROBABLY NOT A GREAT, PROBABLY NOT A GREAT FIRST PITCH, YOU KNOW? NO, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT GOES BACK TO 2008, SO IT'S BEEN QUITE A BIT OF TIME AND A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, TOWNSHIP BOARD MEMBERS HAVE CHANGED.
SO, WELL, IT W IT WOULD SORT OF NEED TO BE COLLABORATIVE WITH ME, JEFF, BUT ALSO THEN, BECAUSE YOU CAN COME UP WITH RECEIVING ZONES, BUT THEN THEY COME AND SAY, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH ANYTHING.
THERE THERE'S STUFF IN THERE THAT WORKS.
SO YOU HAVE, IF YOU WANT IT, IF YOU WANT IT TO BE USED, THEN IT HAS TO BE SOMEWHERE THAT'S WORKABLE.
SO RIGHT NOW YOU'RE BEING ASKED TO CONSIDER IT TOTALLY CONCEPTUALLY.
AND WITHOUT HAVING ANY IDEA, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT MIGHT WORK, MAYBE WE CAN SEPARATELY FROM THE CRITERIA, COME UP WITH IDEAS ON WHERE IT CAN WORK.
SO YOU COULD SEE IN AN APPLICATION BECAUSE THE ONLY ONE THAT HAPPENED TO BE PRESENTED TO YOU AT NIGHT PRESENTED THE IMMEDIATE INTRACTABLE PROBLEM TO YOU, THAT THEY WERE TOO.
SO THE BENEFITS WITH TANTRUM, I DON'T SEE THE BENEFIT OF THAT.
WELL THEN THAT'S, WHAT I CAN DO FOR, FOR OUR NEXT MEETING IS I'LL SHOW YOU A PLAN OF, OR I'LL SHOW YOU A MAP OF WHAT PARCELS WE HAVE THAT ARE AVAILABLE FOR ANY SORT OF DEVELOPMENT IN THE TOWNSHIP AND GIVE YOU A SENSE OF WHAT THERE IS LEFT IN THE TOWNSHIP AND WHERE DEVELOPMENT COULDN'T COULDN'T CAN, AND CAN'T GO AND MAYBE BALANCE IT OUT WITH SOME OPEN SPACE.
UM, AND SO YOU SEE WHERE THE OPEN SPACE IS IN RESPECT TO THOSE.
MAYBE I CAN GETTING A LOT ON ONE MAP, BUT MAYBE WE CAN SORT OF WORK IT OUT SO THAT IF WE LOOK AT SOME ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS ON THERE TO JUST SORT OF SEE WHAT WE CAN, HOW WE CAN BALANCE THIS OUT.
UM, AND THEN I'LL, I WILL, I'LL WORK ON GETTING YOU SOME FACTUAL INFORMATION ON WARRINGTON'S ORDINANCE AND SOME OTHER ORDINANCES, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT APPLIES WELL, AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD FIRST STEP.
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT MAYBE NOT FOR THE NEXT MEETING, BECAUSE GIVE US SOME TIME TO DIGEST ALL THIS.
MAYBE PUT IT OUT UNTIL APRIL OR SOMETHING.
SO WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO REALLY, YOU KNOW, REALLY KINDA, YOU KNOW, WE ALL GET THIS INFORMATION YOU HAVE.
I MEAN, I'LL GET YOU THE INFORMATION THEN WE CAN, WHEN YOU FEEL YOU'RE READY AS A CHAIRMAN, YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE AGENDA WHEN YOU FEEL YOU'RE COMFORTABLE.
I WOULD THINK NEXT MEETING WOULD PROBABLY BE A LITTLE TOO FAST, BUT YEAH.
SO I THINK THAT'S A GOOD FIRST START.
SO IF YOU GUYS, JOE, IF YOU GUYS ALL WANT TO DO THAT WORK, I MEAN, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN DO IN THE MEANTIME TO HELP HELP THE PROCESS OR NO ONE, WE SKIPPED A THING IN THE AGENDA.
WE WILL GO BACK TO THAT IN A MINUTE.
THAT MIGHT SORT OF HELP TANGENTIALLY.
I JUST HAVE ONE FOR YOUR, IN ONE FURTHER QUESTION.
UM, I WOULD ASSUME THERE WOULD BE MEETINGS, UH, WHERE THE PUBLIC COULD PUT THEIR COMMENT IN.
I'M THINKING OF THOSE HOMES ALONG MENNONITE CHURCH ROAD, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THEY OVER LIKE OVER SOME PERIOD OF TIME, THEY BOUGHT THEIR DREAM.
AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY'VE GOT THIS CITY IN THEIR BACKYARD.
I MEAN, HOW CAN YOU BE FAIR TO THAT? I AGREED.
UM, I GUESS WE HAVE TO SORT OF LOOK AT WHERE WE GO FROM HERE IN TERMS OF IF WE EVEN GET TO THAT POINT.
UM, MAYBE WHEN IT'S A FORMAL APPLICATION, WE NOTIFY PEOPLE.
SOME, WHAT IF IT WAS A FORMAL APPLICATION, WE CAN NOTIFY THE PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE.
IF IT'S A ZONING CHANGE, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE AROUND THE PROPERTY WOULD WITH ANY LAND DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL, THERE'LL BE ON AN AGENDA FOR A PUBLIC MEETING.
UM, I KNOW SOMEBODY WHO LIVES RIGHT THERE, MAYBE I COULD REACH OUT TO HER AND LET HER KNOW.
AND I'M SURE SHE'D TELL HER NEIGHBORS SO
[00:40:01]
WELL, YOU KNOW, I GO BACK TO, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT AGAIN, I DIDN'T MEAN TO OFFEND YOU GUYS, BUT THIS IS NOT, I THINK YOUR BEST FIRST PITCH.AND, YOU KNOW, I JUST DON'T SEE THE BENEFIT FOR THE TOWNSHIP HERE.
SO, YOU KNOW, I, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT BOB JUST STATED, I THINK IS ANOTHER ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT.
SO, BUT IF YOU COULD SAY, OKAY, WE HAVE A REAL BENEFIT TO THIS COMMUNITY, THIS WHOLE COMMUNITY, BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO GUARANTEE THIS OPEN, THEN MAYBE THEN IT WOULD BE SOMETHING YOU COULD SELL TO THESE FOLKS.
BUT YEAH, RIGHT NOW I'M NOT SURE THAT THERE'S A LOT OF BENEFIT TO ANYBODY, BUT MAYBE THE DEVELOPER.
WHAT WE SKIPPED ON THE AGENDA WAS, UM, TOM HAD, OR CHAIRMAN WRIGHT HAD MENTIONED LAST WEEK, LAST MONTH ABOUT, UM, EDUCATION THE FIRST, UM, PROBABLY ONE OF THE EASIEST WAYS TO GET SOME EDUCATION IS PENNSYLVANIA MUNICIPAL, MUNICIPAL PLANNING, EDUCATION INSTITUTE HAS SOME ONLINE SESSIONS THAT THEY PUT ON.
IT GOES FROM ABOUT SIX 30 TO EIGHT.
SO IT'S NOT, IT DOESN'T ENCOMPASS A WHOLE EVENING.
UM, I ACTUALLY I'M AFFILIATED WITH THIS ORGANIZATION FOR, AND SO IT WAS JOHN.
UM, HE DOES SOME OF THE TEACHING.
I JUST RUN SOME OF THE ZOOM FOR THEM.
I HAVE TAUGHT SOME OF THE CLASSES.
UM, BUT IF THERE WAS SOMETHING IN ONE OF THESE CLASSES AND IT WAS IN YOUR PACKET, IF THERE'S A CLASS YOU'RE INTERESTED IN TAKING, LET ME KNOW, I WILL GET YOU SIGNED UP AND YOU LET ME KNOW WHAT DATES I'LL GET YOU SIGNED UP, AND THEN YOU CAN, UM, LOG IN AND WATCH FROM HOME.
THEY'RE SORT OF QUICK HITTERS.
I MEAN, THEY'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU A, A QUICK OVERVIEW.
UM, BUT IT'LL, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE MANAGING SUBURB, SUBDIVISION, REVIEW PROCESS, BUILDING A STRONG PLANNING COMMISSION.
NOT THAT I THINK WE NEED TO, I I'M, I HAVE TO GIVE YOU GUYS CREDIT.
I THINK THE QUESTIONS YOU WERE ASKING TONIGHT WERE, WERE EXTREMELY ON POINT AND EXTREMELY KNOWLEDGEABLE.
SO, YOU KNOW, KUDOS TO YOU, BUT IT'S, IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO GET A LITTLE, YOU KNOW, SOME OUTSIDE KNOWLEDGE.
SO THE STRONG PLANNING COMMISSION, THE LIMITS TO ZONING, THEY CERTAINLY WILL HELP YOU OUT.
YOU'RE WELCOME TO TAKE ZONING OFFICER AND ZONING HEARING BOARD.
WE DON'T REALLY GET INVOLVED WITH THAT THAT MUCH, BUT IF YOU DO, YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED WITH ALL FOUR OF THEM? YOU'RE YOU'RE WELCOME TO, UM, JEFF, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ON THIS BECAUSE YEAH, I WAS LOOKING FOR SOME TRAINING FOR THIS, FOR THIS GROUP, AND EVEN FUTURE PEOPLE MAY COME ALONG, BUT, AND MAYBE IT'S THAT FIRST ONE BUILDING A STRONG PLANNING COMMISSION.
ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS LOOKING FOR TO MAKE SURE THAT WE, THAT WE, AS A BOARD AND AS INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS UNDERSTAND THE, UH, THE, UH, POLICIES, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT WE SH WHEN WE SHOULD, UH, INTERVENE WHEN WE SHOULD BACK OURSELVES UP, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE ETHICAL THINGS INVOLVED IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND WHAT WE DO EVERYDAY IS WOULD THAT FIRST ONE COVERS SOME OF THAT.
IT WOULD GIVE YOU A QUICK OVERVIEW OF A LOT OF THAT P AND PEI OFFERS A CLASS THAT THAT IS ACTUALLY, I THINK IT'S THREE SEPARATE NIGHTS, UM, OVER A THREE OR FOUR WEEK PERIOD, DEPENDING ON WHEN IT IS, THAT IS LIKE AN EXPANSION OF EACH OF THESE CLASSES.
IF YOU TAKE THIS CLASS AND THEY'RE JUST GETTING BACK INTO IT, CAUSE ALL OF THOSE CLASSES ARE IN PERSON.
THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY HAD TO PUT THOSE IN HIATUS FOR AWHILE.
THEY'RE STARTING THEM BACK UP AGAIN, BUT THAT GIVES A CLASS LIKE THAT WOULD GIVE YOU A BETTER, FOUND A BETTER GROUND.
UM, THIS IS JUST SORT OF A QUICK THING.
IT'LL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT THE WAY WE OPERATE AREN'T NECESSARILY THE WAY THEY TALK ABOUT THEM IN HERE.
BECAUSE AS WITH ANY ORGANIZATION, THEY SORT OF TEND TO FIND THEIR OWN WAY, BUT IT WILL GIVE YOU A GOOD BACKGROUND INFORMATION FOR A LOT OF IT.
IF WHEN THE OTHER CLASSES GET STARTED BACK UP AGAIN, WHICH THEY'RE HOPING TO DO IN THE SUMMER, I WAS GOING TO BE BRINGING THAT INTO YOU TOO AND SAY, HERE'S, HERE'S THE OTHER CLASSES.
THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A COMMITMENT.
AND I THINK SOMETIMES THEY'RE IN WESTCHESTER, THE ONES I'VE TAUGHT HER IN WESTCHESTER AND, UM, LANSDALE.
SO, BUT THEY'RE EXTREMELY GOOD CLASSES.
SO, UH, NOT TO BELABOR, BUT IS IT, IS IT MORE ON THE ETHICAL SIDE ON YOU? YOU CERTAINLY, THEY TOUCH ON ETHICS MORE.
THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A FULL CLASS ON ETHICS, AT LEAST NOT ONE THAT I CAN THINK OF OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I GUESS THAT THERE'S PROBABLY SOME OUT THERE, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, IT'S GOING TO BE MORE EDUCATION.
YOU'LL TALK ABOUT THE HISTORY.
YOU'LL TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, STEPS IN THE PROCESS AND, AND, AND MORE OF THAT.
WELL, I WOULD, UH, I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT AND I KNOW WE'RE ALL BUSY.
UH, EVERYBODY'S GOT A LOT GOING ON, BUT I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT WE ALL LOOK AT THESE, LIKE YOU SAID, MAYBE THE ZONING WOULDN'T BE A GOOD FIT FOR A START, BUT CERTAINLY BUILDING A STRONGER PLANNING COMMISSION.
SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD START FOR US TO TAKE THOSE CLASSES AND LEARN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING AROUND THE STATE OR AROUND THE CONNIE OR, YOU KNOW, IN THE AREA OR WHATEVER IT'S RUN BY.
UM, IT DEPENDS ON WHICH INSTRUCTORS YOU GET, BUT IT'S ADMINISTERED BY THE BOROUGHS ASSOCIATION, BUT YOU GET, YOU GET PEOPLE FROM MONTGOMERY COUNTY
[00:45:01]
PLANNING THAT ARE ON IT.UM, LIKE I'VE TALKED WITH SOMEBODY FROM ERIE, SO YOU'LL GET A DIVERSE CROSS SECTION FROM THE STATE.
BUT THERE'S MY ONLY ISSUE WITH THESE IS IT'S A LITTLE LIMITED ON WHAT QUESTIONS YOU CAN ASK IT.
YOU SORTA HAVE TO TYPE THEM IN AND THEN THE INSTRUCTORS GET TO THEM THE OTHER CLASS ONCE THEY START OFFERING THOSE AGAIN, I THINK THOSE ARE GREAT BECAUSE IT'S 50 PEOPLE AND, AND MUCH MORE, UM, MAYBE 25 PEOPLE THAT IT'S MUCH MORE HANDS-ON AND THEY DO, YOU KNOW, MORE CLASSROOM EXERCISES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
THE LOGISTICS OF THIS CHEF WE'RE INTERESTED, YOU KNOW, THE FOUR OR FIVE OF US OR THREE, FOUR, WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS WANTS TO TAKE THIS CLASS.
I SEE IT'S OFFERED ON FOUR DIFFERENT NIGHTS FOR THE NEXT FOUR MONTHS.
JUST SEND ME AN EMAIL, WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IT AND WE'LL GET YOU REGISTERED.
AT ONE YOU JUST PICK ONE DATE.
SO THE FOUR UNDER BUILDING, A STRONG PLANNING COMMISSION, THE 26TH, 17TH, 22ND AND 18TH, THEY'RE ALL THE SAME CLASS.
UM, JUST PICK ONE DAY, THEY'RE JUST OFFERING IT FOR THE NEXT FOUR MONTHS.
WELL, YOU CAN PICK THREE CLASSES NOW BECAUSE THE BEAUTY OF THESE IS YOU CAN OFFER THEM TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.
NOT THAT THE TENT, I MEAN, THE TOWNSHIP CAN CERTAINLY AFFORD THE OTHER THINGS, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU CAN HAVE A QUICK CLASS AND IT GIVES PEOPLE JUST A GOOD BACKGROUND.
AND IF FOR SOME REASON YOU NEED, I THINK THERE ARE SOME CONTINUING EDUCATION CREDITS.
IF YOU NEED THOSE FOR SOMETHING FOR LEGAL AND SOME PEANUTS, SOMETIMES YOU CAN CROSS LISTS WEEK.
IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR SOME CONTINUING EDUCATION CREDITS, I KNOW REAL ESTATE, YOU PROBABLY NEED SOME, WE CAN CHECK WITH THE BURROUGHS ASSOCIATION TO SEE HOW THEY WOULD DO THAT.
WE'RE HAPPY TO HELP YOU OUT WITH THAT.
I DON'T THINK THE RETIREMENT COMMUNITY, WE HAVE THE BLEEDING CREDIT.
THEY DON'T GIVE US ANYTHING FOR BEING RETIRED FOR CREDIT FOR THAT.
THEY JUST, THEY JUST HOPE YOU CAN GET OUT OF IT.
THAT'S YEAH, I KEEP I'LL KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR OTHER THINGS.
THIS IS THE FIRST THING THAT CROSSED MY DESK AND IT WAS EASY TO PUT IN.
SO IT MOVES US BACK TO OUR AGENDA AND, UH, WHAT IS, UH, WHAT'S THE NEXT THING ON THERE? THE, THE, THE, THE NEW THINGS.
I'LL LET JEN SPEAK ABOUT THE PLANNING MODULES.
THERE ARE TWO SEWER EXTENSIONS FOR THIS YEAR.
ONE IS GREENWOOD AVENUE, AND IT'S GOING TO PICK UP 10 LOTS THAT ARE NOT, NOT CURRENTLY ON PUBLIC SEWER.
AND THE TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD IS FIVE LOTS TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD.
EXTENSION WILL ACTUALLY BE IN THE REAR OF THE LOTS.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE GOING INTO TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD, NEEDING A HIGHWAY OCCUPANCY PERMIT FOR THAT.
IT'S EXTENDING OFF OF THE LITTLE SHOPPING CENTER, BUT AT THE TOWNSHIP LINE END, THAT'S THE TOWNSHIP LINE PARCEL.
AND A MANHOLE WAS PUT STUB CONTINGENCY WITH THIS IN MIND, WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT WAS DONE, IT'S GOING TO GO DOWN THE ALLEY TOWARDS TOWNSHIP LINE ROAD AND ALONG THE REAR OF THREE LOTS THERE, THIS IS THE GREENWOOD APP SECTION RIGHT NOW.
THERE ARE SOME LOTS, UH, CLOSER TO RIDGE PIKE.
RIDGE PIKE IS ON YOUR LEFT IN THIS DRAWING HERE.
THEY'RE ALREADY OUT TO RIDGE PIKE AND THERE'S ONE LOT.
UM, THAT GOES ALONG THE REAR OF THAT.
ALSO, THIS IS GOING TO EXTEND UP FROM COLLEGE AND IT'S GOING TO PICK UP 10, LOTS, FIVE ON EITHER SIDE OF THE NORTH SIDE.
CURRENTLY ONLY HAS FOUR HOMES, BUT THERE'S A VACANT LOT.
SO WE'RE GOING TO PUT A STUB FOR THAT VACANT LOT IN THE FUTURE TO THOSE AVAILABLE, THERE'S FOUR HOMES ON IT, BUT A NEW ONE PLAN, UH, THE VACANT LOT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING PLANNED AT THIS TIME.
WE'RE GOING TO PUT A STUB IN ONE OF THE FIVE AT 1 0 5 NEW HOUSE.
I LOOKING AT THAT, RIGHT? YEAH.
I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S A NEW HOUSE AT 1 0 5 AND THEN THE VACANT LOT THAT'S RIGHT AT THE END.
SO THIS IS SORT OF AN OUTGROWTH OF THE DEVELOPMENT.
WB HOMES WITH THE 3 57, UM, GREENWOOD, AND THEN THE, THE, UH, OXFORD LEE, WHICH IS THE HALLMARK HOMES UP FARTHER CULTURAL WAR MEN.
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE BRINGING SOME SEWER INTO THAT AREA AND I'VE RECEIVED, AND I'M SURE EVERYBODY HAS A FEW PHONE CALLS FROM RESIDENTS IN THIS AREA SAYING, HEY, IF THE SEWERS GOING UP THERE, CAN WE GET IT DOWN WHERE WE ARE? AND SO THIS PROJECT IS SORT OF MOVED ALONG AGAIN.
WE DON'T REQUIRE ANYBODY TO COME TO CONNECT, AND WE'RE NOT SURE HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL CONNECT AT THE END OF THE DAY, BUT THIS IS SORT OF JUST A LITTLE STUB THAT WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN FILL IN.
ARE YOU SAYING, SO THE FOUR LOCK THE BEFORE EXISTING HOMES THERE NOW THEY DON'T HAVE
[00:50:01]
TO TIE THE TOWNSHIP POLICY HAS BEEN THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TIE IN WHEN A SEWER LINE IS, IS RUN, UM, CHANGED A LITTLE BIT.SOMETIMES IT'S BEEN, IF, WHEN YOU SELL IT, YOU HAVE TO TIE IN.
BUT RIGHT NOW I THINK THE TOWNSHIP POLICY IS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CONNECT UNLESS YOUR SEWER, YOUR ONLINE SEWER IS FAILING.
WHICH I'M NOT GONNA LOOK OVER HERE BECAUSE THE SUPERVISOR IS RIGHT THERE.
AND I DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, IF I'M WRONG.
SO THERE'S SOME LETTERS TONIGHT THAT WE NEED TO, UM, PROCESS AND HAVE SIGNED.
THERE'LL BE INCLUDED IN THE SEWAGE FACILITIES, PLANNING MODULE SUBMISSION TO DEP.
SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR TONIGHT IS THE BOARD TO APPROVE, OR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO APPROVE TOM SIGNING THE LETTERS.
I HAVE COPIES OF THEM OVER HERE FOR YOU TO SIGN.
IF, IF PLANNING COMMISSION OKAYS.
BEFORE THE MEETING, WE WERE SAYING WE'RE AGAINST SEWERS.
SO YOU KNOW, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST AGAINST HAVING SOMETHING THAT WORKS.
CERTAINLY I CERTAINLY WILL REMOVE THE ONE FROM YOUR HOUSE.
WELL, I, I, YOU KNOW, W WE NEED TO HAVE A VOTE ON THAT, JOE.
SO, UM, TO APPROVE THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.
SO TO APPROVE THE LETTERS FOR BOTH, UH, UH, TOWNSHIP LINE AND THE GREENWOOD AVENUE, UH, SOAR PLANNING MODULES, UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THOSE AND, UH, UH, SEND THEM TO, TO THE, UH, WE WANT TO MAKE THAT MOTION.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THEM.
WE HAVE A MOTION FROM GILLY TO APPROVE THE, UH, THE APPROVAL LETTERS.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I WILL SECOND THAT MOTION.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, IF NOT ALSO WHAT HAPPENED IF NOBODY SIGNS UP? I MEAN, DO WE HAVE A FEEL FOR ANYBODY THAT WOULD BE INTERESTED OR HAS FAILING SYSTEMS ALREADY ON THAT ROAD? I KNOW THAT THERE'S ONE PERSON WHO'S CALLED ME REPEATEDLY, AND I'VE PUT HER OFF TO BILL THAT, THAT HAS CALLED REPEATEDLY AND WANTS TO CONNECT AND HAS BEEN ON US FOR ABOUT THE LAST YEAR SAYING, HEY, YOU KNOW, WHEN CAN THIS HAPPEN? AND WE KEPT SAYING, WELL, LOOK, WE LESS TO SEE IF IT GETS IN THE BUDGET.
IT MADE IT INTO THE BUDGET FOR THIS YEAR, FOR NEXT YEAR.
SO NOW IT'S, IT'S DESIGN AND PLANNING MODULE AND ALL OF THAT STUFF, PUT IT IN AGAIN.
WE HOPE THAT EVERYBODY CONNECTS.
WE HOPE THAT THEY DO, AND THAT THE TOWNSHIP OFFERS A BENEFIT ASSESSMENT WHERE IF IT COSTS, I THINK I'VE, THEY'VE ALWAYS SAID, IF IT COSTS $70,000 TO PUT THE PIPE IN FOR YOUR HOUSE, YOU TAKE THE NUMBER OF HOUSES AND HOW MUCH IT COSTS.
AND IF IT COSTS $70,000, THE TOWNSHIP WILL TAKE A VERY LARGE PERCENTAGE OFF OF THAT, AND ONLY REQUIRE YOU TO PAY A CERTAIN AMOUNT.
LIKE I'VE HEARD ANYWHERE FROM FIVE TO $10,000.
AGAIN, IT'S PROJECT DEPENDENT.
IT DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH PIPE GOES IN THE GROUND, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO THE TOWNSHIP OFFERS A HUGE DISCOUNT FOR PEOPLE TO CONNECT.
UM, WE HAVE A VERY LARGE SEWER FUND.
WE HAVE A WELL-FUNDED SEWER FUND, NOT INFINITE, BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE'RE USING IT.
WE'RE TRYING TO CAPTURE THESE LAST FEW AREAS THAT, THAT NEED TO NEED TO CONNECT.
AND THEN WE HOPE PEOPLE CONNECT AND ONLINE SYSTEMS ARE GONNA FAIL SOMEDAY.
IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF WHEN, AND THEN THE TWO THAT THE VACANT LOT, AND THEN THE PROPOSED NEW HOUSE.
DO THEY TO CONNECT THOUGH, BECAUSE THEY'RE NEW, THEY'RE NOT GRANDFATHERED OR THEY HAVE TO, I DON'T KNOW.
QUITE THAT'S I THAT'S, UM, I, I COULDN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
WELL, SO AGAIN, WE HAVE A FIRST AND A SECOND TO APPROVE THE LETTERS.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE LETTERS, SAY, AYE.
[APPLICATIONS TO BE HEARD ON FEBRUARY 2, 2022]
I GUESS WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE ED, RIGHT? IB REHAB.UH, BASICALLY THIS IS NICK ADAMS, WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE LLC THAT OWNS THE PROPERTY.
UH, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE 2,647 SQUARE FOOT PART OF THE PROPERTY.
JEFF, CAN YOU PUT THAT UP PLAN? OKAY.
AND THAT'S OVER TO THE RIGHT IS THE MALVERN SCHOOL AND YEAH, THE DANCE STUDIO, RIGHT.
ABOUT WHERE THE POINT OF THE ARROW IS, AND WE'RE ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, UH, WE'RE UNIT B OF THE CONDOMINIUM.
AND IF, IF, UH, NICK HAD FOUND A LAW FIRM ON IT, WE WOULDN'T BE HERE, BUT BECAUSE I FOUND IB REHAB UNDER THE M ONE DISTRICT, YOU'VE GOT TO COME IN.
IF YOU HAVE A MEDICAL CLINIC FOR THE TREATMENT OF HUMANS, YOU HAVE TO GET A CONDITIONAL USE.
THE BUILDING IS BUILT, UH, THE SPACES VACANT.
UH, HE JUST WANTS TO OCCUPY THE SPACE IVY REHAB, JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA IS A JUVENILE, UH, OR WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE RIGHT WORD.
I'M LOOKING FOR, UH, PEDIATRIC PEDIATRIC,
[00:55:01]
UM, PLACE WHERE THEY TAKE KIDS FOR PHYSICAL THERAPY REHAB.UH, THEY DEAL WITH ALL TOUT AUTISM, DEVELOPMENTAL DELAYS, SPEECH DELAYS, DOWN SYNDROME, UH, FEEDING, SWALLOWING DISORDERS, HAND-WRITING DIFFICULTY, CEREBRAL PALSY, GENETIC DISORDERS, NEUROMUSCULAR DISORDERS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
UH, WE DID NOT GET ANY REVIEW LETTER FROM THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT'S BUILT, UH, THE COUNTY SEEMED TO THINK THAT WE WERE A LAND DEVELOPMENT FOR SOME REASON, AND THEIR LETTER SAYS WE SHOULD GET A HIGHWAY.
WELL, IT'S HAD A PERMIT FOR YEARS.
UH, THEN THE, UH, TOWNSHIP ENGINEER COMMENTED THAT WE HAVE TO PROVIDE FOR HANDICAP ACCESS PARKING FOR THE KIDS.
WE HAVE NO PROBLEM WE'LL COMPLY.
UM, AND BASICALLY WHAT WOULD LIKE YOU TO DO IS RECOMMEND TO THE BOARD THAT WE CAN HAVE OUR CONDITIONAL USE.
WELL, LIKE THE SEWERS WE WERE TALKING BEFORE THE MEETING WERE AGAINST KIDS TOO.
SO, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, KIDS ARE OUT THERE, ANYTHING WITH KIDS WE DON'T WANT TO DO.
UH, I MEAN THE QUESTIONS I THINK IT'S CLEAN.
THIS IS REALLY SORT OF ADMINISTRATIVE THE ORDINANCE.
THAT'S SORT OF THE HANGING LITTLE TIDBIT THAT UNFORTUNATELY, ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE TOWNSHIP, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS, BUT BECAUSE IT'S M ONE RIGHT HERE, THEY, THEY DO HEY, GREAT ATTRIBUTE.
TOWNSHIP, I'M SORRY, JUST FOR MY OWN KNOWLEDGE.
WHAT AGES OF CHILDREN BE GOING HERE? IS THIS GOING TO POSSIBLY REQUIRE SCHOOL BUSES TO TRANSFER? THIS IS POSSIBLY GOING TO REQUIRE SCHOOL BUSES TO TRANSPORT CHILDREN HERE OR THE AGES THE KIDS ARE COMING WITH THEIR PARENTS.
THEY HAVE ONE HOUR TIMEFRAMES, SO THEY'RE THERE FOR AN HOUR GETTING THEIR PHYSICAL THERAPY AND THAT IT'S NOT BUSTING.
SO, UH, I I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS, UH, PLAN TO MOVE FORWARD.
AND, UH, AND, UH, FROM ANYONE I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION, I BOB'S MADE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THIS PLAN.
I THINK YOU'RE, YOU'RE REALLY RECOMMENDING CONDITIONAL USE APPROVAL JUST TO, BUT NOT TO PARSE WORDS, BUT YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY APPROVING ANYTHING, BUT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE CONDITIONAL USE OF WHEN WE HAVE THAT HEARING WITH THE SUPERMAN.
SO YOU HEARD THAT IT'S A CONDITIONAL RECOMMENDATION USUALLY THOUGH YOU STILL ARE RIGHT IN THAT BOTTLE AND SAYING, ALL RIGHT, SO I'LL TAKE A SECOND FROM ALL SECOND GALEA.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? QUESTIONS? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
THAT MOVES US ON DOWN THE AGENDA TO A GLOBAL PACKAGING.
AMENDED FINAL PLAN, AMY, IF YOU WANT TO STAND, JUST MOVE THE MIC FOR ME PLEASE.
I'M AMY FARRELL WITH KAPLAN STEWART HERE FOR THE APPLICANT.
UH, THIS IS A PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD APPLICATION FOR AN AMENDED LAND DEVELOPMENT RELATED TO A PROPOSED 5,000 SQUARE FEET CONCRETE PAD, UM, AS WAS OUTLINED IN THE APPLICATION.
AND AS I THINK YOU SEE IN THE, UH, TOWNSHIP REVIEW LETTERS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET, THIS APPLICATION IS RELATED TO CERTAIN PREVIOUS APPROVALS FOR THE PROVIDENCE BUSINESS PARK.
SPECIFICALLY IN 2017, THERE WERE LAND DEVELOPMENT APPROVALS, UH, GRANTED TO PERMIT A 225,000 SQUARE FEET OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS TOGETHER WITH THE ASSOCIATED PARKING TRUCK LOADING DRIVE AISLES, ET CETERA.
UH, FOR THIS SITE, ONE OF THOSE TWO BUILDINGS, THE 125,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING, UH, IS ALREADY CONSTRUCTED AND OCCUPIED, AND THE APPLICANT WILL BE MOVING FORWARD WITH CONSTRUCTION OF THE SECOND PREVIOUSLY APPROVED BUILDING, UH, UNDER THOSE PRIOR APPROVALS, UH, AS NOTED IN THOSE REVIEW LETTERS, UH, THAT YOU HAVE ALL OF THE REVIEWS AND APPROVALS NECESSARY FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THAT SECOND BUILDING ARE ALREADY IN PLACE.
THOSE WERE ALL ADDRESSED IN 2017.
THERE'S NO CHANGES PROPOSED, UH, WITH RESPECT TO THE A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT BUILDING OR, UH, THE PARKING LOADING AND ASSOCIATED LAND DEVELOPMENT APPROVALS.
SO THERE'S NO ACTION NEEDED BY YOU, UH, WITH RESPECT TO CONSTRUCTION OF THAT HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT BUILDING ITSELF OR THE RELATED SITE IMPROVEMENTS THE SCOPE OF THE AMENDMENT, WHICH IS WHAT IS ACTUALLY BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IS FOR A 5,000 SQUARE FOOT CONCRETE PAD.
AND YOU CAN SEE ON THE PLAN THAT'S UP NOW, UM, ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THAT PAD, SORT OF BETWEEN THE BUILDING.
THERE WE GO, SEAN SHOWING US RIGHT NOW, UH, BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND THE DRIVE AISLE.
UM, THAT'S A 5,000 SQUARE FEET PAD THAT IS PROPOSED ADJACENT TO THE NEW BUILDING, UH, WHICH WILL HOUSE A SMALL
[01:00:01]
SILO AREA, UH, FOR STORAGE OF THE MATERIALS THAT ARE USED BY GLOBAL IN THE MANUFACTURING PROCESS ITSELF.UM, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE MATERIALS THAT ARE IN YOUR PACKETS, WE HAVE CLEAN REVIEW LETTERS.
UH, THE ONLY OPEN COMMENT IS A REQUEST FROM THE FIRE MARSHALL THAT WE ENGAGE A FIRE PROTECTION SPECIALIST TO CONFIRM AS PART OF THE, UH, BUILDING PERMITTING PROCESS.
WHAT, IF ANY ADDITIONAL BUILDING PROTECTION SYSTEMS MIGHT BE REQUIRED IN CONNECTION WITH THOSE SILOS? THAT'S A STANDARD COMPONENT OF A BUILDING PERMITTING SUBMISSION FOR A PROJECT LIKE THIS.
SO IT CERTAINLY IS SOMETHING WE WERE ANTICIPATING ANYWAY.
UM, BUT AS THE FIRE MARSHALL INDICATES IN HIS REVIEW, THESE PLANS, UH, AS SUBMITTED ARE ACCEPTABLE FOR LAND DEVELOPMENT AMENDMENT PURPOSES AND THAT, UM, FIRE CODE ANALYSIS AS IT WOULD, AS YOU MIGHT DESCRIBE, IT WILL BE ADDRESSED DURING THE BUILDING PERMITTING PROCESS.
UM, THERE ARE REALLY NO OTHER OPEN ITEMS, UH, ON THOSE REVIEW LETTERS.
UH, THAT WAS THE FIRE MARSHALL'S ONLY COMMENT.
I THINK IT WAS THREE COMMENTS.
THE FIRST OF WHICH, UM, WAS A REQUEST FOR CONFIRMATION THAT SANITARY SEWER CAPACITY, UM, UH, WAS AVAILABLE AND HAD BEEN SECURED.
AND THERE'S A FOLLOW-UP, UH, EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN THE TOWNSHIP, UM, AND OUR CONSULTANTS IN YOUR PACKET CONFIRMING THAT THOSE EDU'S WERE PURCHASED, UH, GILMORE, SECOND COMMENT, UH, ECHOED THE FIRE MARSHALL, UH, JUST SIMPLY THAT THE FIRE MARSHALL, UH, NEEDED TO WEIGH IN HERE, UH, WHICH HE HAS DONE.
AND WE WILL CERTAINLY COMPLY WITH HIS COMMENT.
UH, AND THE FINAL COMMENT IN THE GILMORE LETTER HAS TO DO WITH THE COUNTY CONSERVATION DISTRICT.
AND IT'S REALLY JUST A NOTE THAT, UH, BECAUSE OF THIS 5,000 SQUARE FEET OF ADDITIONAL IMPERVIOUS ON, BY THE WAY ABOUT A 50 ACRE SITE.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A TEENY TINY DROP OF ADDITIONAL IMPERVIOUS HERE, UM, THAT THE COUNTY CONSERVATION DISTRICT MAY NEED TO REVIEW THAT IN CONNECTION WITH THE EXISTING NPDS.
UM, THERE IS AN NPDS PERMIT ALREADY IN PLACE FOR THE A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT BUILDING AND ALL OF THOSE RELATED IMPROVEMENTS.
SO THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTY WOULD BE LOOKING AT AT THIS POINT WOULD BE THAT ADDITIONAL 5,000 SQUARE FEET.
WE HAVE BEGUN THOSE DISCUSSIONS WITH THE COUNTY.
OUR INITIAL UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEY'RE NOT REALLY SEEING ANYTHING HERE EITHER.
UM, THERE MAY BE A MINOR TWEAK OR AN AMENDMENT TO THAT NPDS PERMIT RELATED TO THAT 5,000 SQUARE FEET, BUT IT'S NOT SOMETHING OF PARTICULAR CONCERN GIVEN THE SIZE OF THIS SITE OVERALL, AND THE LEVEL OF DESIGN THAT'S ALREADY BEEN COMPLETED.
UH, IF THEY DO REQUIRE AN AMENDMENT, WE'LL CERTAINLY SECURE THAT AMENDMENT.
AND THEN THAT WOULD BE PROVIDED TO THE TOWNSHIP.
UM, THAT REALLY IS THE SUM TOTAL OF WHAT, UH, WHAT THE REQUEST IS TONIGHT.
UM, I DO HAVE WITH ME, UH, SEAN, MONTH'S FROM BOWLER, WHO'S THE CIVIL ENGINEER ON THE PROJECT.
HE CERTAINLY CAN ANSWER ANY OTHER QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE RELATIVE TO THAT 5,000 SQUARE FOOT AMENDMENT.
UM, WE ALSO HAVE REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER AND GLOBAL PACKAGING WHO ARE THE CURRENT OCCUPANTS OF THE BUILDING, AND WILL OCCUPY THE NEW COMPONENT OF THE BUILDING AS WELL, IF YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS RELATED TO THAT PAD.
UM, BUT AGAIN, UH, WE THINK THAT THIS IS READY FOR REMOVAL ONTO THE, UH, SUPERVISORS WITH A RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS PLANNING COMMISSION, AGAIN, WITH YOUR POINTER.
CAN YOU POINT WHERE THAT EXACT 5,000 FOOT IS EXACTLY WHERE IT'S AT WHEN YOU'RE A LITTLE TOUGH? SO IT'S THAT AREA RIGHT THERE.
AND THAT'S GOING TO BE USED, AND WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE MIXTURE.
SO IT'S AN, IT'S AN EXTERIOR CONCRETE PAD THAT HAS A SORT OF A SILO FARM ON IT.
SO IT'S GOT A SERIES OF SILOS ON IT THAT HOLD, UM, THE MATERIALS THAT ARE THEN FED INTO THE BUILDING, INTO THE PROCESSING SYSTEM AS PART OF THE, UM, PLASTICS, EXTRUSION PROCESS.
SO WHAT ARE THE MATERIALS? UM, I DON'T, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK OUT OF TURN IN TERMS OF WHAT THOSE MATERIALS ARE SPECIFICALLY.
SEAN, DO YOU WANT TO GIVE A LITTLE MORE DETAIL AND THEN AGAIN, CERTAINLY WE HAVE GLOBAL IF NEEDED.
I MEAN, THEY, THEY ARE, UM, PLASTIC PELLETS, UM, NON-FLAMMABLE UM, IN ART, IN NATURE, UM, YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S NOT A LOT OF ENERGY WITH THEM, UH, IF ANY, AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY KEPT AT AMBIENT TEMPERATURE AS WELL.
SO, UH, WE DON'T FEEL THAT IT, IT, UH, POSES ANY KIND OF RISK.
UM, BUT THAT IS ULTIMATELY, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE GO THROUGH THE BUILDING PERMITS, UH, AND TALK TO THE FIRE PROTECTION ENGINEER, UH, AND WE'LL SUPPLEMENT AS NECESSARY, AMY, I MIGHT BE CONFLATING THIS WITH A CONVERSATION YOU AND I HAD IN ANOTHER TOWNSHIP, DID THESE SILOS NEED HEIGHT RELIEF? NO, THEY DO NOT.
ONLY HAVE SO MANY SILOS THINGS.
SO WHEN I HEAR IT, I GET A LITTLE CONFUSED, RIGHT? NO.
UM, IF YOU RECALL IN THIS SITUATION, UM, YOUR, THIS ORDINANCE IS ACTUALLY WRITTEN PRETTY CLEARLY IN TERMS OF ACCESSORY STRUCTURES.
UM, AND THOSE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES DO NOT COUNT TOWARDS BUILDING HEIGHT AND THAT TYPE OF THING.
THAT MAY BE THE CONVERSATION THAT YOU'RE RECALLING, UM, WITH RESPECT TO THIS TOWNSHIP, BECAUSE THERE ISN'T EQUIPMENT PENTHOUSE ON THE TOP OF THIS BUILDING, UH, WHERE WE DO HAVE A ZONING DETERMINATION THAT CONFIRMED THAT, THAT PENTHOUSE
[01:05:01]
DOES NOT COUNT AS BUILDING HEIGHT.AND SO IT DOESN'T NEED ANY KIND OF ZONING RELIEF.
THAT'S THE ONE I HAD SENT YOU AN EMAIL AFTER WE SPOKE TO OUR MATTE LIGHT ABOUT HOW TO COUNT A PENTHOUSE UNDER THE BUILDING CODE, RIGHT? SO THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WAY THAT, UM, UH, PENTHOUSE IS LOOKED AT UNDER THE ZONING CODE VERSUS THE BUILDING CODE.
WE HAVE A ZONING DETERMINATION THAT, THAT, UM, THAT PENTHOUSE DOES NOT COUNT AS BUILDING UNDER YOUR ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO THERE'S NO ZONING RELIEF REQUIRED AT THE TIME THEY SUBMIT FOR THE BUILDING PERMIT.
THEY'LL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT CALCULATION IN TERMS OF THE PENTHOUSE REALLY, IT WAS.
AND I EVEN THINK AT THE TIME WE AGREED IT WAS NOT A ZONING ISSUE.
IT WAS A DOWN THE ROAD BUILDING PERMIT ISSUE.
I RECALL IT NOW, ASSUMING YOU BILL'S NOT HERE.
AND I, JEFF, IS THAT HE'S ALL RIGHT WITH THIS LETTER.
THEY'VE ADDRESSED ALL OF OUR ISSUES.
THE ONLY OUTSTANDING WON'T BE THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT BECAUSE OF THE MODIFICATION OF THE OUTLET STRUCTURE.
IT'S A DROP ON THE SITE, SO, OKAY.
BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A QUESTION, I'M SORRY, JEFF.
UM, THIS WAS WHAT WE'RE CALLING AN AMENDED FINAL PLAN.
IT WAS A MINOR CHANGE I'LL ADMIT.
UM, BUT BECAUSE IT'S OVER 2000 SQUARE FEET, THAT'S OUR INTERNAL THRESHOLD FOR ANYTHING OVER 2000 SQUARE FEET CHANGE IN PERVIOUS COVERAGE, BUILDING AREA, THINGS LIKE THAT.
THAT'S WHY THEY WENT BACK THROUGH THE PROCESS, WHICH I THINK IT CAUGHT A FEW THINGS IN THEIR PLAN ORIGINALLY THAT THEY CLEANED UP AND WITH THE FIRE PROTECTION THAT, THAT FARMERS WILL DENVER LINK IS GOING TO LOOK AT DOWN THE ROAD.
PLEASE STEP UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
AMY, COULD YOU HAND THE MIC UP FOR, THANK YOU.
I MEAN, BECAUSE YOU WILL KNOW ARLIN BILL 708 MEADOWVIEW LANE AND I LIVE RIGHT NEXT DOOR.
SO WE REALLY CURIOUS IS HOW TALL ARE THESE SILOS GOING TO BE? LIKE, ARE THEY GOING TO BE HIGHER THAN THESE NEVER SHOW ELEVATION THAT I CAN FIND, I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT I'M TOLD 36 FEET.
SO THAT'S SHORTER THAN THE BUILDING OR HIGHER.
JUST, YOU KNOW, TELL ME RELATIVE, LIKE, ARE THEY TALLER THAN THE BUILDING ARE SHORTER THAN THE BUILDING? JUST TO GET A FEEL FOR WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE FACING.
THE NOT HOW SO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE TOWERING OVER IT AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ADMITTING ANY SMELL OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
NOW IT'S A FULLY CONTAINED SYSTEM.
I MEAN, THIS IS JUST ANY SMELL.
HER QUESTION WAS WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S, UM, THERE WOULD BE ANY SMELL ADMITTED FROM THEM.
AND JUST IN CASE I WASN'T SPEAKING TO MIKE, SO I DUNNO IF YOU COULD ALL HEAR, BUT THIS IS A FULLY CONTAINED SYSTEM, SO THERE'S NO SMELLS, THERE'S NO NOISE.
THERE'S NO, YOU KNOW, NOTHING EMANATING FROM THESE SILOS AND THE, AND THE, THE PICTURE HERE WITH THE SILOS.
SO THERE'S ROUGHLY 10 OF THEM.
IS THAT WHAT THE, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING? UM, IT LOOKS LIKE THAT'S ABOUT RIGHT.
AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT MAY DEPEND ON ULTIMATELY ULTIMATELY WHAT THE, UM, REQUIREMENTS OF THE INTERNAL EQUIPMENT ARE, IS THEY SIZE ALL OF THAT, BUT THEY'RE COMFORTABLE THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T NEED ANYTHING LARGER THAN THAT 5,000 SQUARE FOOT PAD AND ANYTHING HIGHER THAN WHAT WE'VE DESCRIBED.
AND THEN THERE'S NO TRAFFIC, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S NO TRAFFIC ISSUES BECAUSE NO, UM, IN CASE HE GAVE A MCMANN, GAVE IT A QUICK AND THEY DON'T SEE ANYTHING.
SO AGAIN, I THINK THERE'S AN INTERNAL EMAIL IN YOUR, IN THE PACKET.
THERE'S AN EMAIL IN OUR PACKET, I THINK, WHICH IS PROBABLY IN YOURS AS WELL.
THAT'S JUST CASEY SAYING, HE'S NOT GOING TO COMMENT FURTHER.
UH, SO ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FOR THE BOARD? COOL.
SO, UH, JOE, WE'RE ASKING FOR PRELIMINARY APPROVAL TO SEND THIS TO THE SUPERVISORS.
YOU'RE IT WOULD BE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE AMENDED FINAL PLAN.
SO YOU HEARD WHAT JOE SAID, IT'S A RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE THE FINAL PLAN.
IF ANYBODY WANTS TO MAKE THAT BOB HAS MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE FINAL PLAN TO THE SUPERVISORS.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND, UH, GILLY SECOND THAT MOTION.
AND DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE FIELD OR ANYONE ELSE IN A BOARD? IF NOT ALL IN FAVOR.
[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION (NON-LAND DEVELOPMENT)]
ALL RIGHT.SO I THINK THAT COVERS OUR AGENDA FOR TONIGHT, RIGHT? UH, JEFFREY.
AND ARE WE LOOKING TO, UH, HAVE A MEETING IN THE FEBRUARY OR, OR ARE WE LOOKING TO MOVE TO MARCH? I THINK WE'RE LOOKING TO MOVE TO MARCH.
IF WE LOOK AT THE AGENDAS, UH, UNDER THE, THE PENDING THE DATE DISCUSSION TO BE DETERMINED AUTOZONE, WE HAD A MEETING WITH TODAY, UM, AGAIN FOR EVERYONE'S BENEFIT, THAT'S UP OFF OF RIDGE PIKE.
UM, THERE, THEY'VE GOT SOME INTERNAL ISSUES THEY'VE GOT TO WORK THROUGH.
UM, SO WE'LL SEE IF THEY COME BACK AND WHAT HAPPENS WITH THEM.
[01:10:01]
IS GENERALLY READY, BUT I THINK WE'RE HAVING A MEETING ABOUT A FEW ISSUES.SO JUST IRON OUT, SOME STUFF, AMELIA STREET, THAT'S NOWHERE.
I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING FROM THEM.
I THINK JEN'S HEARD A FEW THINGS FROM THEM, BUT NOTHING CRITICAL HOPWOOD ROAD IS STILL IN PROCESS AND TOLL BROTHERS FOLEY.
I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE READY TO GO, BUT NOT FOR THE SECOND MEETING IN FEBRUARY.
SO PROBABLY IF WE WANT TO CANCEL THE SECOND MEETING IN FEBRUARY AND JUST MOVE EVERYTHING TO MARCH 2ND, I AM NOT GOING TO PUT A BURDEN ON US.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A REAL LONG MEETING OR RELATE NIGHT, SO, ALRIGHT, SO I'LL TAKE A, UH, A MOTION TO, UH, TO, UH, CANCEL THE FEBRUARY 16TH MEETING AND MOVE EVERYTHING THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE ON THE AGENDA, UH, FOR, TO MARCH 2ND.
AND WE WANT TO MAKE THAT MOTION, MAKE THAT MOTION.
NICOLE HAS MADE A MOTION TO, UH, CANCEL THE FEBRUARY 16TH MEETING MOVING TO MARCH 2ND.
DO I HAVE A SECOND ON THAT SECOND EMOTION? ALRIGHT, DJ.
AND JEFF WILL LET US KNOW WHAT THAT AGENDA WILL BE OFFICIALLY.
WE'VE ALSO, WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY NEW APPLICATIONS SINCE WE'VE LAST MET.
SO NOTHING, NOTHING NEW AND EXCITING DOWN THE PIKE.
UH, ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS BEFORE WE ADJOURN FOR THE EVENING? TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
BOB'S MADE A MOTION SECOND TO ADJOURN.
SECOND GILLY'S SECOND ON FAVOR MEETING ADJOURNED.